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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 1: You're not interested in Armed now? No, look, we're going

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Speaker 1: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Hey, film spotters, we have another archive drop in your

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Speaker 2: feed with our conversation, A long conversation, I think, a

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Speaker 2: fun conversation about Spike Lee and Denzel Washington's fifth collaboration

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Speaker 2: as director and actor, Higas to lois coming this Friday.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to put our top five Denzel Washington performances

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Speaker 2: back in your feed. This is from twenty seventeen. We

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Speaker 2: had w Camal Bell on the show. Among the many

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Speaker 2: things that he does, Josh, he had a CNN show

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Speaker 2: Emmy nominated, The United Shades of America. He directed the

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Speaker 2: Peabody Award winning documentary We Need to Talk About Cosby,

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Speaker 2: And he had a podcast that ran a regularly between

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen that was appropriately for our

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Speaker 2: purposes called Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all

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Speaker 2: time period.

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Speaker 3: Great show, great guest, and looking back at my list, Adham,

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Speaker 3: I'll just say my number one pick my own eyebrow raised,

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Speaker 3: So I'll have to I'll have to give that a

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Speaker 3: fresh listen and see if I convince myself. Sometimes sometimes

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Speaker 3: that happens here on the show. So hopefully listeners will

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Speaker 3: enjoy a fresh here or maybe listening to again our

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Speaker 3: top five Denzel Washington performances. That's from May twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: And if you want access regular access whenever you want,

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Speaker 2: you want to dip into the archive and here shows

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Speaker 2: like this. That is a benefit of being a Film

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Speaker 2: Spotting Family member and you can learn more at Filmspottingfamily

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Speaker 2: dot com. Enjoy mister w Come Out Bell. Many of

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Speaker 2: you may know Bell for his politically charged stand up.

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Speaker 2: His new comedy album with semi Prominent Negro was just

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Speaker 2: released this week. He's also the host of CNN's United

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Speaker 2: Shades of America, which just got picked up for a

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Speaker 2: second season, not to mention his live monthly radio show

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Speaker 2: and the politically reactive podcast that he co hosts. But

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Speaker 2: the reason he's with us today is because he thinks

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Speaker 2: Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all time period.

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Speaker 2: And we know this because he co hosts another podcast

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Speaker 2: called Denzel Washington is the Greatest Actor of All time period.

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Speaker 2: Come out, You are a very busy man. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much. For taking time for us today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. When you say it like that, I started

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Speaker 1: to get sleepy.

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Speaker 4: I bet it's a lot. How do you pull all

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Speaker 4: that off?

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Speaker 1: I mean I just sort of, you know.

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Speaker 5: I think it's a fond option of after I had

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Speaker 5: I had another TV show Totally Biased, where I was

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Speaker 5: like there for like twelve and fifteen hours a day,

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Speaker 5: and then when that was over, I was like, I

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Speaker 5: don't want to ever have to commit that much time

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Speaker 5: to one project ever again.

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Speaker 1: I would like to do lots of things that take

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Speaker 1: up a little bit of time.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's good. Here, I got another one for you. Okay,

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Speaker 3: can you add a fourth podcast? I want you to

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Speaker 3: do something on the Forest Gump sequel, the one that

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Speaker 3: you speculated about in one of your early episodes when

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Speaker 3: that finally comes out. I just wanted to do episodes

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Speaker 3: catalog in that movie. Can you do that for me?

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Speaker 5: I think I'll have to get rid of another podcast

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Speaker 5: where I add another podcast. I'm always like going, I

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Speaker 5: could do a podcast about this, and I look at

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Speaker 5: my wife.

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Speaker 1: You can't exactly. I'm always coming with more ideas.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, so it's a but yeah, certainly

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Speaker 5: I think there's more podcasts in my future. I just

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Speaker 5: think I'm gonna have to suspend some while I would

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Speaker 5: I share.

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Speaker 4: Sure, that's a that's a sound move.

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Speaker 2: So when we announced that we were going to do

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Speaker 2: this look back at Denzel Washington's career tied in with

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Speaker 2: a magnificent seven review, we heard from a lot of

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Speaker 2: people on social media saying, you got to get come

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Speaker 2: out bell On, you got to get someone from that

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Speaker 2: show to talk about Denzel Washington. And the good part

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Speaker 2: was we were way ahead of those den Zel It's

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Speaker 2: we had already reached out to you. So we are

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Speaker 2: very excited to have you on and that that term

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Speaker 2: den Zelot. All of our best ideas come from our listeners.

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Speaker 2: Did you coin that expression or is that a pre

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Speaker 2: existing thing that you latched onto?

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Speaker 6: No, it wasn't.

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Speaker 5: It didn't exist. We sort of, I mean I came

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Speaker 5: up with the title. I'll take credit for that. I'm

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Speaker 5: a big fan of like crazy long titles, like my

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Speaker 5: new We just announced that I have a book coming

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Speaker 5: out that also is a crazy long title. I just think,

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Speaker 5: as everybody else, every other podcast and title has gotten shorter.

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Speaker 5: For example, like Cereal is number one podcast, but you

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Speaker 5: have no idea. What that's about when you just say

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Speaker 5: I'm listening to Cereal, so I just feel like I

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Speaker 5: just want a podcast. It's very clear what it is,

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Speaker 5: so that you know what you're getting into. But then

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Speaker 5: it was actually me and Kevin Avery. We both we

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Speaker 5: actually shared it's going to be so much more boring.

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Speaker 5: We shared the same comedy manager for a while and

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Speaker 5: she was the one who's like, you should call your

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Speaker 5: people Denzel Itz, and we were like, thank you, comedy manager.

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Speaker 5: This is the very rare time our comedy manager actually

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Speaker 5: has a good idea. So no offense every comedy manager,

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Speaker 5: but she, Carrie Smith, she was like that, and so

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Speaker 5: that's where it came from. So but you know, since then,

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Speaker 5: the Denzels have come up with lots of things that

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Speaker 5: have been incorporated into the podcast.

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Speaker 3: So the basic idea for the show when you set

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Speaker 3: out at the very beginning, you know, just go through

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Speaker 3: Denzel's films, talk about all these performances. Has that vision

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Speaker 3: been pretty much a compl as you're approaching i think

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Speaker 3: almost one hundred shows now or has it changed a

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Speaker 3: little bit along the way, And basically, what does it feel.

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Speaker 1: Like to do this now?

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Speaker 3: This many episodes in I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, I think it really started to shift really early on.

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Speaker 5: The idea is that we were review every Denzel Washington

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Speaker 5: movie and therefore approved that he was a greatest actor

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Speaker 5: of all time period.

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Speaker 1: But very early on.

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Speaker 5: We started people reaching out to us because Denzel is

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Speaker 5: an icon and also a very unique icon.

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Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is also an icon, but.

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Speaker 5: There's other white guys, like, you know, there's like, you know,

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Speaker 5: if Tom Hanks walks into a room and the other

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Speaker 5: side of the room, like George Clooney walks in the room,

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Speaker 5: we got two guys, two icons in the room. But

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Speaker 5: Denzel's sort of singular in that in that there's not

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Speaker 5: another actor of his era that holds a similar space.

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Speaker 5: I mean, Samuel Jackson's great, Morgan Freeman is great, but

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Speaker 5: he's kind of the king, you know. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 5: I think that, like very early on, we people started

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Speaker 5: coming into that. But then it also very quickly turned

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Speaker 5: into a thing that was just generally about diversity in Hollywood.

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Speaker 5: You know, at the time we started doing the podcast,

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Speaker 5: like Oscar so White kicked up again, right, we also

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Speaker 5: are talking about like they're also Project green Light. The

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Speaker 5: season of Project green Light had all that weirdness around

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Speaker 5: diversity and Effie Brown going when Matt Damian was like,

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Speaker 5: diversity is on camera, not behind the camera. And I

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Speaker 5: was a big fan of that show, and Kevin's a

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Speaker 5: big fan of Matt Damon, So we had to have

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Speaker 5: a lot of debates about that, and I mean, I

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Speaker 5: think one of the greatest things that the show has

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Speaker 5: done is that, you know, we talked to Ryan Coogler.

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Speaker 5: Now he's obviously he's the director of a Rocky Now

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Speaker 5: we talked about his favorite denselboes, but it was a

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Speaker 5: really in depth discussion about creed like and luckily, our

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Speaker 5: fans have grown with that and there and they like that.

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Speaker 5: So we find that we don't actually have to do

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Speaker 5: an episode that's even fifty percent Denzel for our fans

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Speaker 5: to keep up with it, because Denzel just sort of

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Speaker 5: turns through a discussion about diversity in general.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, that's really interesting how it's evolved to that. So

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Speaker 2: we are going to get to your top five Denzel

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Speaker 2: Washington performances, which I imagine was incredibly difficult considering how

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Speaker 2: big of a fan you are and considering how many

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Speaker 2: great performances he has given a little bit of set

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Speaker 2: up here and if I got any of these numbers wrong.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure someone out there will correct me. I looked

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Speaker 2: at his IMDb page, counted forty four feature film credits.

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Speaker 2: Of those, I've seen twenty six of them, so I

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Speaker 2: don't know how good that is or not. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you've seen all of them or not. Come

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Speaker 2: out you can tell us, but I've seen twenty six

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Speaker 2: of those.

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Speaker 4: Forty four.

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Speaker 2: He's made five with Tony Scott the director he's worked

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Speaker 2: with the most, Spike Lee four times, Antoine Fuqua now

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Speaker 2: three times, ed Zwick three times. He of course, has

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Speaker 2: won two Oscars. And I got this from the five

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Speaker 2: thirty eight dot com article speaking of those think pieces

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Speaker 2: come out the four types of Denzel Washington movies. They

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Speaker 2: have him ranked twenty ninth all time in terms of

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Speaker 2: box office. His films have made over two point two

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Speaker 2: billion dollars domestically. So just a little bit of background there.

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Speaker 2: Let's actually go ahead and get to your picks. And

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Speaker 2: how did you even begin to come up with your list?

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Speaker 1: Well, we talked about this in the podcast.

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Speaker 5: I actually learned this from people coming on the podcast,

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Speaker 5: because some people we make everybody come on and say,

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Speaker 5: what are your top five favorite Denzel Washington movies, and

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Speaker 5: very quickly people were like, do you mean favorite performances

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Speaker 5: or favorite movies? Like there this sort of like split

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Speaker 5: between a Denzel Washington movie I enjoy or performance that

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Speaker 5: I think is transformative and relevatory. And I never hadn't

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Speaker 5: thought of it that way. So only through other people

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Speaker 5: coming to the podcast, you like Dave Ziron, who's the

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Speaker 5: great political sports reporter, came on with two lists and

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Speaker 5: now that's a pretty common thing for people to do that.

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Speaker 5: And or Ryan Kugler, we call it cooglering, who would

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Speaker 5: have like tied for number five.

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Speaker 3: Is four movies I can relate that happens on this show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah it's called cooglering.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so yeah, so for me, like my favorite movies

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Speaker 5: are pretty different than this list.

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Speaker 1: Of my favorite performance Okay really.

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Speaker 5: Uh yeah, no there's only one, well there's two, I

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Speaker 5: guess it's I mean, that's not great, but yeah there's

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Speaker 5: three on here that I would have a couple I

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Speaker 5: would have put on my list of favorite movies. But

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Speaker 5: then later through doing the pod, because I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 5: just saying that so I sound smart, It's that actually true?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, just to jump in real quick, I'm curious

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Speaker 2: because we may sprinkle in our choices. I know we

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Speaker 2: did come up with our top five as well. Josh,

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Speaker 2: did you end up in a similar place or are

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Speaker 2: you like me and kind of have your five favorite

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Speaker 2: Denzel movies that also happen to correspond with your favorite performances.

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Speaker 3: I went with performances. But for me, the tough thing

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Speaker 3: was we have a poll going on right now between

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Speaker 3: best Denzel performance or another poll asking for your favorite.

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Speaker 3: So this is a whole other can of worms come

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Speaker 3: out that you can get into. And so I got

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Speaker 3: turned around in that a little bit, which has been

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Speaker 3: really tough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are going to get to those results later,

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Speaker 2: but I guess I'll give a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: spoiler a good example there. I think I don't have

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Speaker 2: him in front of me, but Malcolm X, I think

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Speaker 2: one for best performance, but Training Day wins for favorite, right,

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Speaker 2: And there is a big distinction between those two performers.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 5: Like people, there's a sense that we talked about this

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Speaker 5: in the podcast, there's a sense black people really like

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Speaker 5: to not like Training Day because, like you know, he's

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Speaker 5: just playing a bad cop, but you cannot deny the

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Speaker 5: immense fun it is to watch him in.

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Speaker 4: That performance totally.

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Speaker 5: You know, you can sort of get on your high

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Speaker 5: horse and go, I don't think it's good that you

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Speaker 5: want to Oscar for that, And that's also a discussion

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Speaker 5: we can have. But I'm somebody who came around to

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Speaker 5: that and be like, this is just a good I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's like he is so he chews up every bit

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Speaker 5: of scenery and it's so fun to see an actor

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Speaker 5: like that get the be allowed to sort of just

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Speaker 5: run all over the screen. It's like, whereas Malcolm X,

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Speaker 5: he literally does the right thing. Yeah, pun and it's

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Speaker 5: a great performance. But it's like, if, honestly, I think

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Speaker 5: I always think of it this way, if there's two TVs,

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Speaker 5: or on one TV, there's two different movies playing Malcolm

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Speaker 5: X to Training Day, that's how you figure out your

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Speaker 5: favorite the one. You go, well, I gotta go watch this,

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Speaker 5: and I I'd watch a little bit of Malcolm X.

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Speaker 5: Eventually I can get the Training Day before. He says,

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Speaker 5: King talking.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so did either of those make your top five?

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Speaker 3: Then both of them?

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Speaker 1: Maybe? No? We talked about again. So this is top

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Speaker 1: five performances.

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Speaker 4: That's right, performances.

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Speaker 1: So number five, I'm going to say Hurricane.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Hurricane is I used to be one of my

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Speaker 5: favorite movies, but if you watch the movie, it's a

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Speaker 5: little bit heavy handed. And they also have to cover

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Speaker 5: a lot of time, and so it's just that thing

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Speaker 5: where movies have to cover a lot of time, they

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Speaker 5: sort of like things sort of get attenuated. But that

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Speaker 5: movie did bring me to read about Ruben Hurricane Carter

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Speaker 5: a lot.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 5: But his performance in that movie, the fact that he

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Speaker 5: plays a guy from like eighteen to like I don't

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Speaker 5: know sixty, and it's not totally unbelievable, and in fact,

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Speaker 5: he was forty five years old and ripped in the

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Speaker 5: boxing scenes. Yeah, and it has a classic Denza watching line,

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Speaker 5: I'm fifty.

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Speaker 4: Years old, the quivering lift everything. Yeah, fifty years old.

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Speaker 7: I've been blocked up for thirty years.

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Speaker 2: It's funny about that movie because in that poll question

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Speaker 2: that we're referencing, we gave like the top six answers

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Speaker 2: we thought would be the most common and we didn't

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Speaker 2: list Hurricane among them, And then we had other where

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Speaker 2: people could write in and Hurricane scarcely got mentioned. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that there is a valid reason or any

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Speaker 2: reason that you can come up with why that movie

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Speaker 2: for some reason just hasn't held the same esteem over

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Speaker 2: time since it came out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it has.

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Speaker 5: The biopic problem that, like, you know, it's hard to

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Speaker 5: sort of like when you really need to cover a

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Speaker 5: person's whole life, it's hard to do a great job

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Speaker 5: with that, or a thorough job with that, Like you know,

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Speaker 5: every biopick should actually be like a season of television

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Speaker 5: where it's like, you know, instead of like cramming all it.

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Speaker 1: Also, I think it got a lot of heat at

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 4: I remember that, yeah, because.

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Speaker 5: They played a little fast and loose with some of

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Speaker 5: the facts, which I felt like, do we all see

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Speaker 5: a beautiful mind? Was that guy like like a positive reprobate,

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Speaker 5: like you know exactly, but the movie he's.

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Speaker 1: Just a crazy match genius.

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Speaker 5: I feel like that was to me like a little

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Speaker 5: bit of of institutionalized racism, where like, oh, so this

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Speaker 5: black guy gets heat for playing fast and loose and

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Speaker 5: then not as fast loose as the facts as other

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Speaker 5: biopics do regularly.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's sort of.

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Speaker 5: That affected it and also I think it's a little

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Speaker 5: bit like if you want to watch Hurricane, you might

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Speaker 5: as well watch Malcolm X because it's basically a better

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Speaker 5: version of that movie.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a black guy.

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Speaker 3: Well, he has been in a number biopick, so you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe once those start getting ranked in people's minds, Hurricane

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Speaker 3: falls to the bottom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, might be.

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Speaker 1: I just think Hurricane is not really he's great in it.

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Speaker 1: It's not.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I said this very it's not a ton

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Speaker 5: of fun like I think. So it's not like like

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Speaker 5: Malcolm X, even though it's tragic, seeing him be Malcolm

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Speaker 5: X is fun. It's just it's amazing and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.

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Speaker 5: So Hurricane is great, but I think it doesn't It

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Speaker 5: maybe doesn't age as well as these other ones. But

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Speaker 5: his performance is absolutely top notch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a clear one there. As you were saying that

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Speaker 2: would fit here into your top five. Performance has been

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Speaker 2: not your top five Denzel movies. What about your number four?

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Speaker 1: My number four, I'm going to say a Soldier story.

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Speaker 1: Love it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Soldier story is like the first I think, I mean,

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Speaker 5: maybe he did maybe he did the carbon copy movie first,

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Speaker 5: but we don't really count that, ye, But yeah, Soldier

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Speaker 5: story is really like a great movie because it's a

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Speaker 5: murder mystery and Denzel starts out being what you would

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Speaker 5: think is like, Oh, this guy's got nothing, and then

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Speaker 5: eventually the reveal, it's like, oh, this guy's got a

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Speaker 5: lot more than I expected, you know, no spoilers. And

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Speaker 5: I think that, like, it's sort of interesting that he

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Speaker 5: ended up being such a leading man because it's really

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Speaker 5: a that is a really character performance, Like it's not

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Speaker 5: dominated by him being like the best looking, handsome guy,

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Speaker 5: Like he's sort of a he's sort of a nerd

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Speaker 5: for lack of a better word. He's wearing glasses and

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Speaker 5: he sort of thought as like not being really worthy

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Speaker 5: of anyone's respect in a movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you from?

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Speaker 8: Peter's Hollywood, California by way of Alabama.

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Speaker 1: So you see, I enlisted in forty two.

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Speaker 7: I thought we'd get a chance to fight.

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Speaker 8: So did you know the sergeant?

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Speaker 7: Well, no, son, he was already with the company when

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Speaker 7: I got a sign and pfc's and sergeants we don't

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Speaker 7: mix too well.

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Speaker 1: So you played both for him?

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Speaker 7: Oh yes, sir, I played shots though, and did you

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Speaker 7: like the sergeant, no, sir, you see where it goes

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Speaker 7: back to the team. So stone ass felt the stone ass.

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Speaker 7: But I'm the only one who called him now, So

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Speaker 7: sergeant water soon didn't mean no offense.

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Speaker 5: Leading actors don't normally start out that way. They normally

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Speaker 5: start out as leading, you know, it's like it's a

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Speaker 5: real character role. Later he would have been cast in

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Speaker 5: the role that Howard Robbs would have played if they'd

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Speaker 5: done that movie.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's right, he kind of is encourage under fire, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he does the same thing.

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Speaker 5: So I think it's really a testament to the fact

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Speaker 5: that we've sometimes in the modern era, we forget that

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Speaker 5: Denzel if he was less good looking, he would have

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Speaker 5: been a great character actor.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's too.

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Speaker 5: Good looking, too tall, too good looking to be a

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Speaker 5: character actor. And also I think that he actually was

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Speaker 5: in a soldier's play, which is why he played the

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Speaker 5: same role in the movie. He was in the soldier's play,

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Speaker 5: And we had David Allen Greer on the podcast, who

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Speaker 5: was also in a soldier's play that also starred Samuel Jackson.

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Speaker 5: Was also in that play in New York and told

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Speaker 5: great stories of like actors in the late seventies and

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Speaker 5: early eighties, those guys all being in a play together.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that movie is one. It came out in eighty four.

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Speaker 2: I was nine or ten years old then, and I

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Speaker 2: watched it all the time. For some reason, I think

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Speaker 2: my dad exposed me to it and I became obsessed

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Speaker 2: with it because it would be on HBO all the time,

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Speaker 2: and so I would just see it constantly. And I

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Speaker 2: do remember him very vividly from that film. And then

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Speaker 2: I remember getting into high school my senior year and

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Speaker 2: having to write a paper for an English class on

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Speaker 2: the Melville short story Billy Bud that was made into

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Speaker 2: a movie in the sixties with Peter Yusunoff, and that's

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Speaker 2: basically a soldier story, is basically Billy Bud, but set

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Speaker 2: obviously in the army. So yeah, and I love that

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Speaker 2: movie in that book too. So that's one that has

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Speaker 2: always stuck with me. It's a great choice.

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397
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398
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399
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400
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401
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402
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Speaker 4: What about your number three.

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Speaker 1: Number three glory?

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Speaker 5: I think, I mean, it's like I sort of struggle,

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Speaker 5: like maybe it should be higher. I mean, he basically

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Speaker 5: that's when for a lot of black people, he became like, oh,

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Speaker 5: so we're gonna put him on a post this stamp

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Speaker 5: someday that he's gonna be like, he's gonna get his

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Speaker 5: birthday off one day, Black.

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Speaker 1: Household, We're gonna be in the back of Haptis Church.

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Speaker 5: Fans all for that scene where he plays a very

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Speaker 5: complicated character, again a character, it's something a character actor

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Speaker 5: would do because he's not the good guy in the movie.

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Speaker 5: He's a very complicated character, and characters sort of want

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Speaker 5: to hate, but Denzel Washington's charisma sort of makes it

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Speaker 5: that you're like, I.

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Speaker 1: Want to hate you, but I can't. And it is

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Speaker 1: I mean, glory.

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Speaker 5: Tire is a thing like you can say this the

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Speaker 5: body I almost had a glory to people because of

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Speaker 5: that movie.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he cried out of one eyeball.

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Speaker 5: I mean it became like this, words like not always

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Speaker 5: per forwards, but he's doing a magic trick.

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Speaker 1: And I mean it's to this day you can say.

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Speaker 5: To most black people of you know, probably go Glory here,

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Speaker 5: and they know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Most many people do know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 5: But I think it's just like it was when he

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Speaker 5: became bigger than just an actor in that movie.

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Speaker 1: And that's a movie. Again.

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Speaker 5: You don't get to see a movie where he's acting

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Speaker 5: up against Morgan Freeman and Andre Brower and you know,

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Speaker 5: big ups for what's his name, Farris Bueller in that vie.

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Speaker 5: What a lot of white guys would I would have

437
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Speaker 5: been mad at that they were on screen, but I

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Speaker 5: would be like, move out of the way so I

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Speaker 5: can get to But he sort of plays a very

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Speaker 5: good like I'm not supposed to be here, but I

441
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 5: have a lot of Respector Matthew Broder watched that movie.

442
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 5: I'm like, he could have been blown off the screen,

443
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 5: and he he sort of let his naive tate laugh

444
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 5: him not to be blown off the screen. Glory, that's

445
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 5: when he becomes a force to be reckoned with.

446
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, button up that column, sucking that gut, tucking them

447
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 6: big black lips. Lighten your skin, shrink up that nose.

448
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't have to listen to this.

449
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 6: Where you going?

450
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 1: Boy? Let me buy, Let you buy, Let you buy.

451
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 6: Let me tell you something.

452
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 1: Boy.

453
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 6: You can march like the white Man, you can talk

454
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 6: like him, you can, you can learn his songs, you can,

455
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 6: you can even wear his suits. But you ain't never

456
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 6: gonna be nothing to him but an ugly ass chimp

457
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 6: in a blue suit.

458
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 4: Oh you don't like that, dude, No, m.

459
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 6: But what we gonna do by it? You want to

460
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 6: fight me? Boy?

461
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: Huh?

462
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 6: What you gonna do by it? You want to fight me,

463
00:18:59,200 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 6: don't you?

464
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 3: There's no denying though that Denzel just man handles that movie.

465
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 3: I mean, he's not really supposed to be the one

466
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 3: thing you come out of it thinking about. You do,

467
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 3: and you do?

468
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 1: You absolutely.

469
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 3: I think it's the potent combination of swagger and anger

470
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: that he has in that role. And it's you're right,

471
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 3: that is a much more watching scenes from Glory again,

472
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 3: it's a much more complicated character than I remember in

473
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 3: my memory. It's not the sort of postage stamp character

474
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 3: that we might think of. He's really complicated and troublesome

475
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 3: and conflicted, and man, making a breakout performance out of

476
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 3: something like that takes a special sort of skill.

477
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was his first Oscar And I think

478
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 5: also I think about that as we talk about the

479
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 5: current era of like people don't understand how can Colin

480
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 5: Kaepernick say such mean things about America and say he

481
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 5: still likes a merit.

482
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated and you.

483
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 5: Know, like go watch Glory, Denzel ends up basically showing

484
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 5: pride in his in the flag, you know, like well

485
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 5: at the same time hating everything the flag has created.

486
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,479
Speaker 5: So I think it's a for a black person. It's

487
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 5: like that character is very relatable. It's like I totally

488
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 5: get that, Like, you know, it's not love it or

489
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 5: leave it, it's like hate it and fix it.

490
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's my because we just got done talking

491
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: about last week on the show Born on the fourth

492
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 2: of July, so this topic seemed very relevant. And then

493
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 2: I just actually watch Glory for the first time. Somehow

494
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 2: in the eighties I missed it. I knew that I

495
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 2: had to cross this one off before I talk to

496
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 2: you or talk to anybody about Denzel Washington, and yeah,

497
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 2: his performance is there's no doubt it's a standout and

498
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 2: that interesting combination you pointed out, Josh of the kind

499
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 2: of swagger and anger and that sense of righteousness is

500
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 2: something we get. That really comes through in a lot

501
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 2: of really good Denzel performances. But then on the flip

502
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: side of that are the ones where it always feels

503
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 2: like he's repressing that and that's fascinating too, and that

504
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: comes through actually little bit, I think in his character

505
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: in The Magnificent Seven, the more quiet, reserved ones, but

506
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: there's always something underneath the surface you're just waiting to

507
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 2: spoil over, to bubble over.

508
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 3: I think that struggle over the idea of righteousness is like,

509
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 3: if you look at Denzel Washington as an aw tourist actor, like,

510
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 3: what's the through line in almost every one of his performances.

511
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 3: It's that and you see it right here in Glory.

512
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, great, pick number two.

513
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: Number two.

514
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 5: We're going with Training Day, which I training Day can

515
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 5: easily be number one, but I don't want to get

516
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 5: black people mad at me, so I'm gonna say number two.

517
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: Look at their training Day.

518
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 5: I mean, that movie only works as well as it

519
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 5: does because you have a history of Denzel Washington's career

520
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 5: behind it to sort of know where he came from.

521
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 5: And so I think if he had done Soldier Story

522
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 5: and then Training Day, you'd be like, okay, so he

523
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 5: just kind of a jerk, you know. But because we'd

524
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 5: had a history of Denzel Washington being like this sort

525
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 5: of like you know, a post Malcolm X, like he's

526
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 5: our savior, he's black, you know, he's black Jesus or

527
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 5: Jesus as some.

528
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 4: People say, there you go.

529
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 5: You have this sort of history of him being like

530
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 5: this sort of like he's he's our avatar for positive

531
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 5: black male role models. And then in Trading Days, it's

532
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 5: like a meta performance because we're like, how you're watching

533
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 5: the character of Alonzo do all these horrible things.

534
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: We're like, Denzel, how could you do this?

535
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 5: And at the same time, again, his charisma comes through

536
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 5: as that character given to another actor would just be like,

537
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 5: you know, it would have been like bad Lieutenant whe

538
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 5: hyper kn't tell you, just like I just hate you,

539
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 5: you know, Like, which is fun to watch, but it's

540
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 5: not a box office hit. I think it's denzel'scharisma that

541
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 5: turns that into a box office hit. And again shout

542
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 5: out another white guy, Ethan Hawke. I condescended his performance

543
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 5: with the Warrantine, and I'm like, you have to be

544
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 5: a strong actor.

545
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: Do you put up with that with that guy? You

546
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: know for the whole movie? Be truly effective.

547
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 6: A good narcotics agent must know and love narcotics. In fact,

548
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 6: a good narcotics agent should have narcotics in his blood.

549
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: What are you gonna smoke?

550
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: Tang?

551
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: Nope, you are hell if I am.

552
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you know, no, Wow, you're a moment some

553
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 8: of your Jesus fraid No, man don't know.

554
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 5: This is my job. Is your job.

555
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: I can't do that.

556
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 6: Smoke it, huh, saying a test.

557
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: Just take a hit, take a man, Listen.

558
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 4: I became a cop to stop people.

559
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, blah blah blah blah blah.

560
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 10: It's not a review board, and I ain't cocaine.

561
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 5: Take a hit, noo.

562
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 2: I think, in general, a lot of us I've noted

563
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: this recently because I think Ethan hawks had an amazing

564
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: run over the past couple of years. In particular, I

565
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 2: think a lot of us condescended to him for some

566
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: reason as not a heavyweight enough actor. And I think

567
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: he's proven us all wrong here recently, I.

568
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 3: Like the idea of his performance in Training to being

569
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: a meta performance that in the way you talked about,

570
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: but also because when I watch it, I feel like

571
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: he's screaming at Oscar voters the whole time. I don't

572
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 3: know what you've been waiting for, but fine, here it

573
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 3: is brates them into giving him his best actor Oscar,

574
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: which they finally did.

575
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, as the great comedian Greg Proops said, and I

576
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 5: was one of tho jokes I wish I had written.

577
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 5: And he said this before he won the Oscar. He's like,

578
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 5: and finally they're going to give this. Guys played Beco

579
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 5: and Malcolm X and Ruben Hurricane Carter. They're getting give

580
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 5: an Oscar for playing peptatious McGee.

581
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: Pretty much times, I was just like, that's good, that's

582
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: so great. All right, Well, what's what's better than training Day?

583
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 4: What's your number one performance?

584
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: Malcolm X is the Michael Jordan of Denzel Washington movies.

585
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 5: Like, it's just like you can sort of argue against

586
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 5: it for fun as not being the greatest, but that's

587
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 5: the greatest performance because it's also the most important performance

588
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 5: because when he took the movie, Malcolm X. There was

589
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 5: a lot of talk of like can he pull this off?

590
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 5: There's a lot like amongst the black comunty, he's too

591
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 5: dark skinned to do this. He doesn't look enough like Malcolm.

592
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 5: We should get a lighter skin guy. There's all this

593
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 5: sort of talk about this book is impossible, Spike Lee's

594
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 5: doing it. It's Spike Lee going to do a good job.

595
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 5: Is he able to do an epic movie like this?

596
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 5: You know, Spike Lee ran out, like ran out of money,

597
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 5: and then like black celebrities gave him money to finish

598
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 5: the movie. It all is tied into also the fact

599
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 5: that it was one of the first movies sort of

600
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 5: that went viral before it came out through the X

601
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 5: caps and the X shirts that people were.

602
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: Like, people like Michael Jordan were wearing.

603
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 5: Like, so the movie marketing became a part of the story,

604
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 5: Like I had an X shirt and an X cap

605
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 5: and I didnt even wear baseball caps. But it was

606
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: just like it was a phenomenon, a cultural phenomenon. But

607
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 5: now movies trying to replicate. Every movie tries to replicate

608
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 5: sort of like a viral marketing campaign, and Spike Lee

609
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 5: sort of pioneered that with Malcolm X and that movie.

610
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 5: Without that movie, I wouldn't have read The Autobious Malcolm X.

611
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 5: When I did, I was like, oh, I should probably

612
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 5: read the book before I see the movie.

613
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: So and that book changed my life. And Denzel, there's

614
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: moments in that movie.

615
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 5: If you've seen a lot of pictures of Malcolm X,

616
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 5: and you see Denzel that movie, he looks like Malcolm X,

617
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 5: which doesn't make sense because he doesn't look like Malcolm NEX.

618
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, and so that's why.

619
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 5: And he's always talked about like he's a very spiritual,

620
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 5: religious man. He keeps one down low a lot of times,

621
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 5: but it's like he really feels like he was channelling

622
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. And I'm like, I don't know enough about

623
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 5: that to know if that's true. But there's times that

624
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 5: movie go it doesn't make sense he looks like Malcolm X,

625
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 5: even though he doesn't. And I mean there's this, I mean,

626
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 5: you know, one of the most quoted speeches in my

627
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 5: life that we use as part of the rating system

628
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 5: on the show is oh, I say, and I say again,

629
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 5: you've been had, you been took, You've been hoodwig, bamboozle,

630
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 5: let as stray run him up.

631
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: This is what he does. I just did a very

632
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: poor job of it.

633
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 5: That speech is like, again, it's like, it's just one

634
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 5: of the things where you can say that to probably

635
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 5: a certain generation of black people, like go oh yeah,

636
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. And the finally about that, there's no evidence

637
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 5: that Malcolm X ever said that, the real Malcolm X,

638
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 5: but it's one of the most quotable and again, we

639
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 5: didn't land on Plymouth Rock. There's no alpha evidence that

640
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 5: the real Malcolm X said that I've ever seen, but

641
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 5: Denzel said it, so now it's one of those popular

642
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 5: Malcolm xIC quotes. Like he sort of took over the

643
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 5: legacy of Malcolm X in that movie in a way

644
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: that you realize is so gigantic when you compare that

645
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 5: to and not not putting out his performans.

646
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: But like Will Smith and Ali that's it's fine. Yeah,

647
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: it's like it's not bad.

648
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: I think there's something similar between those two performances though,

649
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean Donzel's is far superior, but both

650
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: are taking actors who are known for their charisma, right,

651
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: they just have this molten hot charisma and playing figures

652
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: from the history who had the same thing and so

653
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: that could go really poorly, but somehow I think will

654
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: Smith pulls it off. But even more so Washington, they

655
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: managed to morph those different types of charisma into something

656
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 3: that's wholly new, like what you're talking about, Kamal. Where

657
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: those speeches are considered, it's not Denzel, it's not Malcolm X.

658
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 3: It's this holy new thing that is so powerful. It

659
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: has this pop cultural cachet now that that we all recognize.

660
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you I really.

661
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 8: Every election year, these politicians are set up here to pacify.

662
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 8: Just sit here and set up here by the white man.

663
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 4: This is what they do.

664
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 10: They send jougs in Harlem down here to pacify it.

665
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: They send alcohol down.

666
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 10: Here to pacify it. They send prostitution down here to

667
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 10: pacify it. Why you can't even get drugs in all

668
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 10: them without the white man's per missions. You can't get

669
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 10: prostitution in hollow without the white man's permission. You can't

670
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 10: get gambling in Holland without the white man's the mission.

671
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 10: So every time you break the seal on that liquor bottle,

672
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 10: that's a government seal you'll break, I say, and I

673
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 10: say it again. You've been hand You've been depend Goodwin.

674
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like I said, I think like and again

675
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 5: not I think the Ali movie like it didn't. I mean,

676
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 5: it works fine, but I don't think it was like

677
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 5: it's transcendent and some stuff.

678
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: For reasons that aren't to do with will Smith. I

679
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: don't want to put it on him.

680
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 5: I think with the Will Smith performance, I feel like

681
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 5: there's a difference between Sometimes in that performance, I can

682
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 5: hear him doing the impression. Yeah, no, compre where's with Denzel.

683
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 5: I don't hear him do I don't hear Denzel and

684
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 5: about at all? Like, oh, this is just footage of

685
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. They got I thought he was more light

686
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 5: skinned anyway.

687
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: Well, so with Malcolm exit number one, really that perfect

688
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: crossover then the synthesis of great movie and great performance.

689
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: And I'm with you completely, Josh. Were you number one

690
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: Malcolm X as well in your list?

691
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: I had he got gamess my number one gel performance.

692
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: And that's only because I revisited a fair amount of

693
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: it in the last week. I had forgotten how good

694
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: that movie.

695
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got it at number four.

696
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: Oh, good, good, excellent. I mean it's this is again

697
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: like in Glory A really complicated in some ways, nasty guy,

698
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: far nastier than than the character and glory, but the

699
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: way the shades he brings to that and he got

700
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: game and plus that doctor j Affro. I mean that

701
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: might have put it over the top for me at

702
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: number one.

703
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

704
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 5: I mean that movie is amazing. That's a movie that

705
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 5: I haven't seen as much as the other Denzel movies.

706
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 5: And I think that it's like a classic Spike Lee movie,

707
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: and that's kind of a trojan horse.

708
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: You think it's about one thing, but it's really about

709
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: another thing.

710
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and uh but when I watched when I rewatched

711
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 5: his performance the movie for the podcast, I was like, oh, yeah,

712
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 5: this is way better than I remembered. And we had

713
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 5: Spike Lee on our podcast and it was a great episode.

714
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 5: We did, like all talked about all the movie to

715
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 5: work and Denzel. It's also a thing where I told

716
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: Spike like, I wouldn't have picked when you had Rayald

717
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 5: in that movie back in the day.

718
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: I was like, why this guy?

719
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 5: And then it real ends up being one of the

720
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 5: greatest basketball players in the history of all period, Like that,

721
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 5: you're smarter than.

722
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Me, Spike Lee.

723
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 4: That's yeah, exactly.

724
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.

725
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 5: Kevin Avery one is Kevin averys Denzel, who's the cost

726
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 5: of my podcast. One of his favorite Denzel scenes in

727
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 5: the movies, and he got game when he hits a

728
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 5: guy in the.

729
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: Throat man and he is so vicious there, and I

730
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: love the touch at the end where and this speaks

731
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: to the layers of his character he runs. You know,

732
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: it's not like this big victorious. He is the tough guy.

733
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: He you know, he he just knocked this guy out,

734
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: but then he also realizes what that means for him

735
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: in his life and he takes off running down the street.

736
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: I love that touch.

737
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's like it's at that moment where he

738
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 5: hits the guy, the guy goes down, he also says

739
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 5: like keep breathing, breathe, and then.

740
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: That's such a Denzel moment. Yeah, I don't really want.

741
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: To hurt you, but you know, but also, oh shitoving

742
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 5: to get out here exactly. I mean, there's there's so

743
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 5: many like I'm sort of upset that I didn't get

744
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 5: man on fire on here because I think.

745
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: That's well, that's yeah, keep going to that's a good transition.

746
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: Maybe real quick as we consider any other movies you

747
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: did strongly consider or ended up as honorable mentions, as

748
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: we've mentioned a couple of the ones for our list,

749
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: and we're certainly not going to go into any detail

750
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: at this point because you've done an amazing job illustrating

751
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: why Denzel's so great in your picks. But I had

752
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: number five deja vu because I felt like I needed

753
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: a Tony Scott film here, and their collaboration being obviously

754
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: the one that he's collaborated with that director the most,

755
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about it just in terms of

756
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: Man on Fire or some of these other titles, the

757
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: taking of Pellam one, two three. If you had another

758
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: movie star in any of those roles, say someone like

759
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: Bruce Willis, who I think is a fine movie star,

760
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: would he have ever been able to bring an ounce

761
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: of the emotional complexity and depth that righteousness, but then

762
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: couple that with that kind of vulnerability or that humanity

763
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: that he brings that makes those movies rewatchable. Denzel is

764
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: the reason why I mean Tony Scott. I know a

765
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: lot of us have come to appreciate his filmmaking more

766
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: over the years, but it's Denzel that makes those movies

767
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: worth revisiting.

768
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: I think what about you come out? You sound like,

769
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 4: you're not a big fan of that film of Deja Vu.

770
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I mean I enjoy that movie.

771
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 5: It's just it's one of those things where it's like

772
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 5: there's some movies this is true of all actors, where

773
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 5: I think he's great in that movie, and I think

774
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 5: Denzel does elevate a movie beyond where it can only

775
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 5: like you can take a bad movie, it's like, you know,

776
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 5: it becomes better with Denzel. That one, to me just

777
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 5: feels very much like I like watching that movie, but

778
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 5: if it had been Tom Cruise, I wouldn't have stepped

779
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 5: near it, you know, like I wouldn't have liked it.

780
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 5: So it's like the movie in and of itself to

781
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 5: me is it's a very sort of mainstream Hollywood vehicle, sure,

782
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 5: which I'm not anti that, but it doesn't it feels

783
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: like and Denzel's got a lot of those on a

784
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 5: thing where you're like, this could have been I think

785
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 5: he brings lot to it, but it could have been anybody,

786
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 5: Whereas like Malcolm X is either Denzel or nobody else,

787
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 5: Like you know, Training Day is either Denzel or it

788
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 5: becomes a much different movie. Deja Vu might have been

789
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 5: a bigger hit with Tom Cruise because he's a white guy,

790
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: and we tend to enjoy white guys running around after

791
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 5: explosions more than we like black guys doing it.

792
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

793
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: No, No, very valid.

794
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: Though to my point, I don't think I would want

795
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: to go back and rewatch the Tom Cruise version.

796
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 4: But Denzel.

797
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: Cruise, Jack Reacher. I'm looking forward to the sea.

798
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 4: Aren't we?

799
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: All right?

800
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 4: So real quick, I'll just list him number four. I had,

801
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 4: he got game number three.

802
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: I had Devil in a Blue Dress, And this is

803
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: one where if I was just ranking the movies, it

804
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: might be lower. But I love his easy rollins. I

805
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: love every bit of that, and of course love don

806
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: Cheetah's Mouse as well. Number two Inside Man and one

807
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: Malcolm X so three of the Spike Lee movies in

808
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: there in my top five.

809
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: What about you, John, I've got Devil in a Blue

810
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: Dress right there at number three too. I think that

811
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: speaks to his timelessness. I mean, he slips into that

812
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: what is it about nineteen forty fifty familiar post World

813
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 3: War so easily, and that puts him up there with

814
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: the all time actors. When you can do that shift

815
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: shift Eras. So I had Flight at five, a movie

816
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: I'm very mixed on, but man, he just about pulls

817
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: that thing out in the last ten minutes. Isn't quite

818
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: able to Malcolm X. I've got at four because I

819
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: do really like him so much in Devil in a

820
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: Blue Dress. At three that might be a sexiest performance

821
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: Devil in a Blue Dress for sure. Glory I've got

822
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: up there at number two, and then as I mentioned,

823
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: he got Game is number one.

824
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So come out any other thoughts on any of

825
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: those or any of the other films that you regret

826
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: that you couldn't squeeze in there. Yeah.

827
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 5: I mean there's a film that I've really come to

828
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: respect a lot because of the podcast and that when

829
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 5: I rewatched it, I was like, oh, this is even

830
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 5: more important than that. I think it's the sort of

831
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people made me respect

832
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 5: it more. But I watched it and I was like, this

833
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 5: film still holds up that it just didn't make it.

834
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 5: I just did and if I put it in I

835
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,719
Speaker 5: would have been trying to sound smart. But Philadelphia is

836
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 5: maybe the most interesting Denzel Washington movie that there is,

837
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 5: just the fact that he be in the course of

838
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 5: the movie goes from homophobe to not homophobe. And he's

839
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 5: a black man, which in the black community there's a

840
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 5: lot made out of us being more homofog to other people,

841
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 5: which I don't believe to be true. But Tom Hanks

842
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 5: gets the credit for Philadelphia, but Denzel's character is the

843
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 5: anchor of the movie.

844
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I actually just saw parts of that

845
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 2: movie recently on TV. Hadn't seen it in years, and

846
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: some of those courtroom scenes are fantastic, and Denzel is

847
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: why and Jonathan Demi's camera and those point of view

848
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: shots where he's talking right to us as the jury

849
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: as the audience, I think are really effective. You're right,

850
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: Denzel is great there. He also worked, of course with

851
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: Demi on The Manchurian Candidate, which maybe not as good

852
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: as the original Mantor in Canada, but still a quality.

853
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: I like that one. His I mean, Meryl Streep is

854
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: amazing in ventoring candidate. It's just which is funny.

855
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 5: That's what we had Spike Leeless his top five Denzil

856
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 5: watching movies, but we wouldn't let him put his own

857
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 5: movies in there.

858
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: And so he listed Manchuuring Candidate, which I was like interesting.

859
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, well we will definitely link to that

860
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: episode in our show notes at filmspotting dot net, the

861
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: one with Spike Lee and link to your podcast. And

862
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 2: I can't say how much fun this was. Thanks so

863
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 2: much for taking the time again, come out, thanks, come.

864
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: Out, Thanks for having me happy to do it. This

865
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: isn't an election, This is a coup.

866
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 6: This is in our own country, a regime change in

867
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 6: our own country.

868
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 7: Then don't then.

869
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 8: This is rich people, manchurian global funding, bad science to

870
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 8: put a sleeper in the White House. And that's what's

871
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 8: going on, Rosie, that's what's going on.

872
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: You'll hear me joke about this in the show on Friday.

873
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: But yes, he did just openly laugh at me at

874
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: one of those picks. But Josh, I'm standing by it.

875
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: What other choice do I have. It's on the record.

876
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: It's on the record, isn't it Our Thanks again to

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Speaker 2: w camal Bell. That was a fun show and we

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Speaker 2: have another fun show talking about Denzel Washington coming up

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