1
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,559
Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. On February third, or

2
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 1: on nine PM, a Norfolk Southern freight train crash in

3
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: the town of East Palestine, Ohio. Approximately fifty cars derailed

4
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,960
Speaker 1: in the crash. Eleven of the cars were carrying hazardous materials,

5
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,919
Speaker 1: including vinyl chloride, a cancer causing substance. Authorities ordered the

6
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 1: evacuation of about fifteen hundred residents and initiated a controlled

7
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: release of vinyl chloride from five train cars to avoid

8
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 1: an explosion, sending a toxic plume into the air. Many

9
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: East Palestine residents have not been able to return to

10
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: their homes due to toxic conditions. They've complained of irritations

11
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 1: on their eyes and throat, and in many places, have

12
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 1: been unable to drink the municipal or well water. Norfolk

13
00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,159
Speaker 1: Southern has stated that they are actively cleaning up the

14
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 1: site and have given out checks to residents who have

15
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: been displaced by the cleanup. But what more needs to

16
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: be done and how can we prevent these kinds of

17
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: DISI asked us from happening again. I'm really pleased to

18
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 1: welcome my guest, the Governor of Ohio, an old friend

19
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 1: of former colleague of mine in the House, Mike DeWine, Mike,

20
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on News World.

21
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: Great to be with you. Thank you very much for

22
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: having me. I'm very curious when did you first learn

23
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: that there had been a very substantial train wreck. I

24
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,040
Speaker 1: heard that, you know, within several hours after it actually occurred,

25
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: and of course we had our Ohio EPA people on

26
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,759
Speaker 1: the scene that night, and then we continued to monitor

27
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 1: the situation, and that occurred on a Friday night. I

28
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 1: had a conference call at seven pm Sunday night, which

29
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 1: is the first time that we learned from the railroad

30
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 1: that one of the cars was overheating and they were

31
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: afraid that it was going to have a massive explosion.

32
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: So I went over there Monday morning right after that

33
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: and been directly involved ever since. As the railroad been

34
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: appropriately responsive to the have a sense that they've leaned

35
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 1: over backwards to be helpful. At first, I think they

36
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: were not communicating very well at all and just not

37
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: the information that we needed when we needed it, and

38
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,640
Speaker 1: that continued certainly into Monday. When I got over there,

39
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 1: it was difficult to get all the facts from them,

40
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 1: But I think after that, you know, I don't have complaints.

41
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 1: We've had a good line of communication. The CEO has

42
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,920
Speaker 1: called me a number of times. I've called him. I

43
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 1: think we've established a good line of communication. So, you know,

44
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 1: after that happened, I don't have any complaints, I guess

45
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: the only thing after that Railroad did not tell us

46
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: what they were doing and when they put the tracks,

47
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,799
Speaker 1: and of course the tracks were put back on and

48
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 1: the train started running before the material below the track

49
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 1: is cleaned up, and so we've told them you have

50
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 1: to go back in and clean that up, and that

51
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: process will begin next week when they take one of

52
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 1: the rails out and start the process right there. Other

53
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,079
Speaker 1: cleanup has been going on. But that was I think

54
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 1: a lack of communication. But besides that, I think communication

55
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 1: has been pretty good. Well from the same point of

56
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: your EPA in Ohio and your public health people, how

57
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,640
Speaker 1: big a problem was being created in terms of threats

58
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 1: to human life or human health. Well, yeah, two incidents.

59
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: You had the train wreck and then we had the

60
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: controlled burn late Monday afternoon. So those were the two

61
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 1: incidents that occurred. We now have on the scene doctors

62
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,320
Speaker 1: who are the absolute experts in all of this, and

63
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 1: we've been monitoring the air, and the air has been clear.

64
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: Of the air has been good. We did not give

65
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 1: the go ahead. One of the first things we did

66
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 1: is cording off a mile area and then we sent

67
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: the National Guard in and the highway Patrol to make

68
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 1: sure no one came. We told people leave that area

69
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: of the village. This track goes alongside the village and

70
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 1: so we told people to leave their homes and we

71
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 1: did not give them the go ahead to go back

72
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 1: in there until our monitors that we had in place

73
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: said that everything was okay, and then we gave the

74
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,600
Speaker 1: go ahead for them to go back in there. The water,

75
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 1: there's five wells that go into the village system, and

76
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,839
Speaker 1: we told people again don't drink this water until we've

77
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 1: tested it. Once we tested it and got the results back,

78
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 1: it came back good. We are telling people with individual

79
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: wells that you need to have it tested and we

80
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,720
Speaker 1: will test it. And so we told them don't drink

81
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 1: that water until we've got it tested. So, look, people

82
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,159
Speaker 1: have grave concerns. We're doing everything that we can to

83
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 1: try to alleviate those concerns. We're putting out the monitoring.

84
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,159
Speaker 1: The monitoring of the air is fine. You have some

85
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 1: spots that still need to be cleaned up, and of

86
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 1: course we've kept everybody out of those spots. People should

87
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: not go to those spots. It sounds to me like

88
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 1: the public health threat was not nearly as great as

89
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 1: the national media initial response. Would that be inaccurate. I'm

90
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: not an expert in this area at all and don't

91
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 1: pretend to be, but we try to rely on the

92
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,920
Speaker 1: best people, and we have the best people that literally

93
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 1: are available in this country who are in there, and

94
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,039
Speaker 1: they're telling us, no, there is not a threat today.

95
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,799
Speaker 1: You know, is it conceivable that people who are having

96
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,600
Speaker 1: some symptoms that that was caused by the initial explosion

97
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,719
Speaker 1: or sure? I mean doctors tell us yes, that's possible.

98
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,120
Speaker 1: And so what we've done is set up a clinic

99
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: again with doctors who really understand this, so anybody can

100
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 1: walk in there any day and be seen and get

101
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 1: advice as to what their symptoms are and what they

102
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 1: should do. And one of the things we're trying to

103
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 1: do with this clinic is to get people hooked into

104
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,920
Speaker 1: the medical system. Many people just don't have a medical home,

105
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 1: and trying to make sure they get a medical home

106
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 1: and we get them lined up with that I think

107
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,840
Speaker 1: is one of the long term consequences we're going to

108
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 1: have from having this clinic established. There were you surprised

109
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 1: to learn that they're like over a thousand derailments a year. Yes,

110
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: I was. We have a lot of railroads that go

111
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: through Ohio. We had derailment this morning in Portsmouth, and

112
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,840
Speaker 1: again we're getting information about it and everything looks fine.

113
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: But yes, I was surprised that there were that many

114
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: derailments that are going on. I might mention that listening

115
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 1: to the press conference yesterday, I watched it and listened

116
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 1: to National NTSD give that report, and the one thing

117
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 1: that struck me was that we have newt in Ohio

118
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of volunteer fire departments, and

119
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 1: they get good training. But the one thing I think

120
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,160
Speaker 1: that the railroads could do without very much cost to

121
00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 1: them is put on ours bringing experts, get our volunteer

122
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,280
Speaker 1: men and women the top of the line training in

123
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: what happens if there is a train wreck. These fire

124
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 1: men and women, you'll have to go to a scene,

125
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: and many times they don't know what is in that train,

126
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: they don't know what's causing the fire, and it just

127
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 1: seems to me that that is something that is a

128
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 1: very doable thing, that is pretty darn easy to do,

129
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: and thankfully it should be done. The railroad should just

130
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 1: do it. Now. Along that line, they probably could develop

131
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 1: an app so that you literally could dial in in

132
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 1: the case of a derelment and find out exactly what

133
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,600
Speaker 1: have been loaded, because the railroad knows what's been loaded.

134
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 1: And you're right, probably the first responders ought to be

135
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: able to pull that up as their vehicles going towards

136
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: the train. Yeah, and I just learned yesterday that there

137
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: actually is some app that is available. I don't know

138
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: all the details about it, but again, many times making

139
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: sure that members of our fire departments scattered all over

140
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: the stateable that they know about this app, they know

141
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,680
Speaker 1: how to pull it up, they know how to use it.

142
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,120
Speaker 1: That probably is very helpful as well from your perspective.

143
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 1: How responsive was the federal government, I mean today intervened appropriately?

144
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 1: Oh you know, look, I mean the most important people

145
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 1: that were needed to be there were the US EPA,

146
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 1: and they work closely with our EPA. I don't have

147
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: any complaints about it. The Transportation Secretary was there yesterday.

148
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,840
Speaker 1: He should have been there earlier. It's just the responsible officers.

149
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 1: I have found that the people who have direct responsibility

150
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 1: for something need to be on the scene. They just

151
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 1: need to go. Whether it is a governor or transportation

152
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 1: secretary or who it is, people expect to see that

153
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 1: person there. And even before I met you, Nude, I

154
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 1: was a county prosecuting attorney and I went to the

155
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,559
Speaker 1: crime scenes. If there was something very serious, I was there,

156
00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: and I always learned something. You can just learn more

157
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,680
Speaker 1: if you're on the scene and you're talking to the

158
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 1: people who are dealing with the problem directly. And that's

159
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 1: just kind of what I learned forty some years ago,

160
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 1: and I just think it's good advice for people who

161
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 1: have direct responsibility. Just show up, be there, listen, and

162
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: try to find out what your people are saying and

163
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: what other people are saying, and then you can take

164
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 1: that information back. It's always useful, it's always good. I

165
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: remember years ago going with Governor Zoe Miller two sites

166
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: where there had been tornadoes, and when you actually are

167
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 1: on the site and you're actually seeing the damage, it's

168
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 1: a totally different experience than just reading about it or

169
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,679
Speaker 1: seeing in the newspapers. And like you, Zoe always went.

170
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,200
Speaker 1: You understood having the leader there mattered. Having the leader

171
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,559
Speaker 1: there matters. People expect that, and it is useful. It's

172
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: not just all for them people to see you and

173
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: feel better, but it's useful, it's helpful, you get a

174
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: good information. Let me ask you about one of the

175
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: topics this is to different. You're so important as the governor.

176
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,280
Speaker 1: Your state has really had a remarkable resurgence. What has

177
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 1: the impact been of the whole renaissance in oil and

178
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,320
Speaker 1: gas production in eastern Ohio. It's a big deal. As

179
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, if you take Ohio and West Virginia and

180
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and put them together, if they were a separate country,

181
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 1: we would be one of the top producers of natural

182
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,320
Speaker 1: gas today. It has taken our counties and you're very

183
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 1: familiar yourself with that part of the state of Ohio.

184
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,599
Speaker 1: I know, it's taken that part of the state that

185
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: has been historically some of the poorest counties and given

186
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: them some real hope and some real opportunity and the

187
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,200
Speaker 1: natural gas. It's also, of course, very very helpful in

188
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 1: regard to manufacturing and keeping that price of your energy down.

189
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a big deal for us. I'm going

190
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 1: to continue to be a big deal, you know, as

191
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: we look to the future. I was just very impressed

192
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 1: with how much the eastern part of the state had

193
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 1: really sort of gone through our run and sons it has.

194
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: I want to thank you. I know your folks told

195
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 1: us you had a very busy schedule today and means

196
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: a lot to me personally you would take this time,

197
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 1: and I wish you well. You're doing a remarkable job

198
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 1: as governor. You're a big part of the reason I

199
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: think that Ohio's now sort of clearly become a Republican state. Well,

200
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 1: you're very kind and always good to see you and

201
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 1: always good to listen to you. So thanks Newe I

202
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 1: appreciate it very much. I think there are a couple

203
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 1: of notable things about the framing of this particular train disaster. First,

204
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,719
Speaker 1: I was surprised, as Governor Dwine indicated he was too,

205
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,599
Speaker 1: that there are over a thousand derailments a year. It

206
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 1: would say to me that one, as we discussed with

207
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 1: the Governor, there ought to be an app that allows you,

208
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,480
Speaker 1: as a first responder, to instantaneously identify what's in a

209
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,079
Speaker 1: train as you're approaching it, so you know whether or

210
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,719
Speaker 1: not there's a dangerous material. Second, there ought to be

211
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 1: a much more methodical approach to why do these zuelans happen?

212
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 1: How do we stop them? Over a thousand a year

213
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 1: even in a country the size is a lot of

214
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,240
Speaker 1: train derailments, and of course in some occasions, particularly involving

215
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 1: passenger trains like amtrack, it'd cost human lives immediately and directly.

216
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 1: So that part really struck me. The second thing instruct

217
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 1: me and I hope you pick this up. And Governor

218
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 1: de mines very calm and methodical explanation. The national media

219
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: automatically and immediately gets hysterical. I noticed this recently when

220
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 1: they were talking about snow in Los Angeles and one

221
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 1: of the TI runs came across said seven feet of snow. Well,

222
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: it turned out that's up in the mountains, it's not

223
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 1: in the city of Los Angeles. But it was so

224
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 1: much more exciting to try to get your attention to

225
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 1: watch the show when you said that. Similarly, if you

226
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 1: went back and looked at the most extreme coverage of

227
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 1: what was happening in Ohio, it turned out that almost

228
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 1: none of that was really true. It was sad. It

229
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 1: was particularly bad for the people of East Palestine, but

230
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 1: it was under control. The State of Ohio responded immediately,

231
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: and at the Environmental Protection Agency level, the federal government

232
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,079
Speaker 1: responded immediately. What made it look like people weren't responding

233
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: was the inability of either the Secretary of Transportation or

234
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,240
Speaker 1: the President United States to take seriously a situation which

235
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,559
Speaker 1: forced the evacuation of fifteen hundred people. And I think

236
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 1: that's one of the things you have to really pay

237
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: attention to as you look at this play out over time.

238
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 1: Why did it take the Secretary of Transportation eighteen days

239
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 1: to finally go there to see on site? And as

240
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 1: Governor de Winn and I discussed, good leaders show up

241
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 1: and they show up quickly. I remember when the terrible

242
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 1: bombing occurred in Oklahoma City in nineteen ninety five, both

243
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,559
Speaker 1: President Clinton and myself as speaker were there within less

244
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 1: than a week to see the tragedy, to talk with

245
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 1: the people, to encourage the responders. And it makes a difference.

246
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 1: It both makes a difference because the senior leadership learns

247
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: things on site that they're not going to learn in

248
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: other ways. And it makes a difference because you raise

249
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 1: the morale, you show people you care, and that you're worried,

250
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 1: And I think all of that gives you a sense

251
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 1: of are the in fact getting what they need? What

252
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: else has to happen? And I think if you go

253
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 1: back and you look at things like Katrina, where at

254
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,640
Speaker 1: one point the Secretary of Homeland Security literally did not

255
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 1: know that there were bodies in the street in New Orleans.

256
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 1: He just wasn't watching TV, and nobody reported to him

257
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 1: he hadn't been there. Those are the kind of things

258
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: where people feel very alienated from their government. So I

259
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 1: think it was a mistake that Secretary Buddha Judge decided

260
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 1: that other things that were more important. It's hard to

261
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: know what his thinking was, But I also think it

262
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 1: was very telling that finally, after a great deal of

263
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: public pressure, he shows up. He should have been there

264
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 1: within three or four or five days at the longest.

265
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 1: That's a very important part of this second I thought

266
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 1: it was symbolically really bad for the President Nited States

267
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 1: to decide he couldn't visit Ohio but he could go

268
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. At one point, they're arguing over money to

269
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 1: help Ohio, whether they're giving another couple of billion dollars

270
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,400
Speaker 1: to Ukraine, and it just seems to me that people

271
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: want a president United States to care first about the

272
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 1: American people, first about problems in our own country, and

273
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 1: to communicate that visibly by being there. So not only

274
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,200
Speaker 1: has Biden not visited the border, but he also hasn't

275
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 1: visited Ohio, and I think that was in fact a mistake.

276
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 1: In the long run, this will turn out not to

277
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: be a gigantic thing the way Katrina was or the

278
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: way cher Noble was. And you may remember the early days,

279
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: the more hysterical parts of the press, we're describing this

280
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 1: as the American Chernobyl. This will turn out to be

281
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: a mid sized disaster. They'll greatly inconvenience people, but thankfully

282
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: didn't kill anybody. And that is being handled by professionals

283
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: on a solid public health basis. With this, Governor de

284
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: winepoint out bringing in the right kind of doctors who

285
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: actually have knowledge about how to deal with these kind

286
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 1: of problems and making sure that there's a local clinic

287
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: established because it's a very small town. East Palestine is

288
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: a relatively small town of forty seven hundred people, fifteen

289
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 1: hundred of whom have been evacuated. The state I think

290
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 1: has been very responsive both at the health level at

291
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 1: testing water and testing air, and at providing medical support

292
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 1: for anybody who thinks that they may have had an impact.

293
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,440
Speaker 1: So in that sense, I think this is not going

294
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: to turn out to be a great disaster. But there

295
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 1: are lessons to learn here, and I would draw a

296
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: real difference between the kind of forward looking leadership the

297
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: governor Dwinehead in his own point, which that he'd learned

298
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: forty years ago when he was a prosecuting attorney, go

299
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 1: to the site of the crime, get a feel for it,

300
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: know would really happen, and he had applied that at

301
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 1: every level of his governorship. And I think the great

302
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: leaders go to the action point personally, try to understand

303
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 1: what's going on, don't rely on staff, don't rely on

304
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: written documents, but in fact want to know what's happening.

305
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: And I think those are some of the lessons. The

306
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 1: other lesson, frankly, is that Norfolk Southern and the other

307
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: railroads should take much more seriously building a automatic doctrine

308
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 1: for how they respond to these kind of mistakes, how

309
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,240
Speaker 1: they immediately reach out, and how they ensure that both

310
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 1: the first responders and the local citizens have an immediability

311
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,440
Speaker 1: to work with the railroad. The railroads are extraordinarily important

312
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 1: to us economically. The amount of freight they carry is astonishing.

313
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,440
Speaker 1: They generally work really really well, and they are environmentally

314
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 1: better than trucks, and they're much so it's expensive the

315
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 1: trucks for large balkshipments. So you want a strong railroad

316
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 1: system and we need to really look at what does

317
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: it take to maximize the strength of our railroad system

318
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: and minimize these kind of derailments in the future. A

319
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 1: lot to learn here, but again it's something I think

320
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: as a healthy country, we just have to have that

321
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: conversation and get these things solved. Thank you to my

322
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 1: guest Governor, Mike DeWine. You can learn more about the

323
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 1: Norfolk Southern train derailment on our show page at newtsworld

324
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: dot com. Newts World is produced by gingwishtree sixty and iHeartMedia.

325
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Garnsey Slump, our producer is Rebecca Howe,

326
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the

327
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the

328
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: team at Gingwig three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newts World,

329
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate

330
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so

331
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all up. Right now, listeners

332
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 1: of news World can sign up from my three free

333
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: weekly columns at Gingwish sixty dot com slash newsletter. I

334
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: am newt Gangwish. This is news World