Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. Okay,
Speaker 1: I am so excited for today's podcast because I am
Speaker 1: with the amazing Emily Giffin, who is number one New
Speaker 1: York Times best selling author. She's written Something Borrowed, Something Blue, Love,
Speaker 1: The One You're With, Heart of the Matter, Baby Proof.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can keep going on and on. Hi, Catherine, Hi,
Speaker 1: have you ever met Emily before? I don't think, so
Speaker 1: hio to me. You nice to meet you, Catherine. So um,
Speaker 1: why are you? Are you in a closet? I'm in
Speaker 1: my closet that's empty that my husband or whatever because
Speaker 1: I wasn't there where all this stuff was moved out
Speaker 1: and it was too echoly. So Eastern told me to
Speaker 1: go to a closet. You know what, that's a really
Speaker 1: solid metaphor right there, right you. You in an empty closet.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's like cleaned out and ready to go.
Speaker 1: And how can I ask you a question? Though? Before
Speaker 1: we Emily, we're going to get to all your stuff
Speaker 1: to talk of help. When we went into it last night,
Speaker 1: girlfriend didn't way. Um, so you and an empty closet
Speaker 1: right now? I remember when I got divorced. I think
Speaker 1: that was my number one thing, was like I don't
Speaker 1: want to walk into the closet and see the empty,
Speaker 1: like see his stuff gone like that was like that
Speaker 1: to me was going to be like the you're like
Speaker 1: more space for my sweaters. But I just I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I was just I remember telling Pam and Chris
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you guys should They're like white crying,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't want to walk in and
Speaker 1: see his stuff gone. And so they went and took
Speaker 1: they packed all of his clothes and then they then
Speaker 1: they moved my stuff and rearranged it. And so I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like you sitting in there, like how is that for you?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a little weird. I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: as emotional about it, but yeah, that part has been
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, me, I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm ready to get out of my space.
Speaker 1: I'm like ready, like I'm you know, and then I'll
Speaker 1: like kind of look around and it just kind of weird.
Speaker 1: It's definitely different and odd, but you know, I'm also
Speaker 1: kind of excited to take over the shoe part of it.
Speaker 1: And so it's fine, it's you know, it's all good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine. It's good. Everything's fine, everything's um yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's and it's okay to still be upset at times. Sure, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean it is definitely it's like a weird feeling
Speaker 1: like it's still kind of feels a little bit like
Speaker 1: a dream kind of, you know, it just doesn't really
Speaker 1: feel real yet. Well, it's you've had him living in
Speaker 1: your space for how many years exactly, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, this person like moves out, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's I remember to me, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: an oh death, but they're still alive. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: that weird like they're everything is gone, and it's like
Speaker 1: you're missing this. There are a ghost basically in the house. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I still think I was telling a friend this yesterday,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's the summer. We've been traveling, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, k and then we're just in l a,
Speaker 1: Like it just doesn't it nothing's normal yet. So I
Speaker 1: think once things are like normal, like normal schedules, normal everything,
Speaker 1: then I think it'll kind of hit me. Right now,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel just like you know, relating tomorrow,
Speaker 1: you know, just like travel and all that has just
Speaker 1: made it feel it doesn't feel normal yet, so I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I can relate to that. It's
Speaker 1: always like when I come home, which is why Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm in Atlanta, so like, this is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why I'm in Atlanta right now is because and
Speaker 1: I texted Katherine and Christen because I'm like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm going to Atlanta because as much as I love
Speaker 1: my space and time home for that the week that
Speaker 1: I'm not with the kids, I'm kind of just like
Speaker 1: for the summer schedule, it's like I just feel very
Speaker 1: out of place in my house and it's like just
Speaker 1: like how you're alone right now to in your house,
Speaker 1: like it's amazing, but but then I feel like at
Speaker 1: times kind of like all right, like I want to
Speaker 1: get out of here because it makes me sad or
Speaker 1: I mean, may before you're enjoying it because your kids
Speaker 1: are like you in the entire house to yourself. But
Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Though it's a little weird.
Speaker 1: It's a little disorienting for sure, but they're just gone
Speaker 1: for a month and they'll come back and mess everything
Speaker 1: up again. You only get a month, I know, But
Speaker 1: I love you, and I just wanted to check in
Speaker 1: on you in the in the closet. Um, So do
Speaker 1: you know how I met Emily? Didn't you like stalker? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Emily Giffen is it is? But it's the truth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't stalk someone when you have mutual Like, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't know where it was not true. So she
Speaker 1: my closest cousin who lives in well, she's in DC now,
Speaker 1: when she lived in Kentucky at the time. She's like,
Speaker 1: how in the world do you know Jane Crant had
Speaker 1: such street cred there for we got so much love.
Speaker 1: By the way, because we had a wine night last night,
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh my god, how are you guys? Friends?
Speaker 1: Like that's so cool. And I'm like, well, I stopped
Speaker 1: her older wiser mentor whatever. I schooled you. You did, Actually,
Speaker 1: she she did. She I opened up more to her
Speaker 1: last night than I ever do I ever do. It
Speaker 1: was weird, but I feel like you're on this transformational Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little bit. You're a little bit. Just you know,
Speaker 1: it's my my sons are going to college in the
Speaker 1: fall and so, and they're twins. There's two at once,
Speaker 1: and we're downsizing a bit, and just you know, I'm
Speaker 1: still my career is the same and the marriage is
Speaker 1: the same. But I just feel like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of like, you know, I've got on. Well, I was
Speaker 1: researching this this place that's like a great place to like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just wasn't yeah, um, but I was looking at
Speaker 1: the middle program, the non trauma program, and it was like,
Speaker 1: do you feel this way? Do you feel this way?
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting and I texted her right
Speaker 1: away this morning. Some of them, yeah, some of them.
Speaker 1: But I think I'm always in the camp that, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever is happening in your life is whether you're you know,
Speaker 1: getting a divorce and sitting in the closet or your
Speaker 1: sons are going to call it like, there's always change happening.
Speaker 1: And if there isn't change happening, it's going to happen anyway,
Speaker 1: you know. And so and you have to sort of
Speaker 1: embrace these transitional moments and and just you know, be
Speaker 1: the best version of yourself at all times. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what you've become. You've really good at that,
Speaker 1: Like you've really like gained a lot of what you
Speaker 1: had some nuggets of wisdom. I'm supposed to be the
Speaker 1: older wiser one buss is because I came back from
Speaker 1: on site. So I told her. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: because things things change when you go. When you put
Speaker 1: yourself in these transformational places like you see, you start
Speaker 1: to see change. Yeah, And I was telling why I think,
Speaker 1: yeah right. I was telling my assistant Kate about it.
Speaker 1: Who's you know? She she's um been with, We've been
Speaker 1: working together forever. We're very close. But I was sort
Speaker 1: of giving her the rundown and Janny says, yes, she
Speaker 1: should go too, and I'm like, wait, you don't know
Speaker 1: a single thing about her. But I thought that was
Speaker 1: so interesting that I replayed it later because I thought
Speaker 1: to myself, probably every human, like everyone could benefit. I mean,
Speaker 1: not every one has the luxury of being able to
Speaker 1: find the time or the the money or whatever to go.
Speaker 1: But like, I think it was interesting that your reaction
Speaker 1: is she should go too. I think everybody should do
Speaker 1: work and self discovery. And I think that's, um, it's
Speaker 1: only going to help what man. I was Oh, man,
Speaker 1: someone said, um, you end up bleeding over if you don't.
Speaker 1: If you don't, God, this is this is I'm like
Speaker 1: that person that just butchers every single I am the
Speaker 1: worst and then but Katherine whatever, you were the same.
Speaker 1: I can't do sayings whatever those are called, but you
Speaker 1: just I butcher them terribly. You butcher lyrics too all
Speaker 1: the time. I remember any time I put my mic out, y'all,
Speaker 1: it's because I don't remember the lyrics. Everybody that that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Why is like the like really you know good but
Speaker 1: like in WAYI wan or whatever, but like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'll be like and they all nail it. Nope, most
Speaker 1: of the time they don't know the song either. Um
Speaker 1: but no, though, the saying was like, if you don't
Speaker 1: fix your wound, you're gonna end up bleeding all over
Speaker 1: the next person. Oh M. Like so if you don't like,
Speaker 1: you can keep putting a bandaid, bandaid, band aid, but like,
Speaker 1: that wound's gonna keep getting reopen. It's gonna keep getting reopened,
Speaker 1: and the next relationship that you're in, if you haven't
Speaker 1: fixed that wound, you will end up bleeding all over
Speaker 1: the person that did not cut you. So interesting. You
Speaker 1: bring that up a conversation that Amy and I had
Speaker 1: the last session, where it is basically we talked about
Speaker 1: on site, we talked about and She's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you can take this time and you can just veg
Speaker 1: out and do all and do all that for a
Speaker 1: little while. You know, like you can do this, do that.
Speaker 1: You know. She's like, but if you don't take steps
Speaker 1: and you don't have intentions and you don't change things,
Speaker 1: it's going to go over into the next relationship. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, that's why I'm still here. You know.
Speaker 1: It's just so it's so interesting because that's so true,
Speaker 1: Like I could easily skirt through this and just like
Speaker 1: not even think about what I need to change in myself,
Speaker 1: what I need to do differently what I and then
Speaker 1: just walk into the next relationship the same person. But
Speaker 1: that was I just think of that, Yeah, and it'll
Speaker 1: be the same. You will be the same cast, and
Speaker 1: the man will be or woman whoever will be not
Speaker 1: saying but you know what I'm saying, like to the
Speaker 1: person listening to the the man will be the same cast,
Speaker 1: just different face, like the same character, different face. And
Speaker 1: that's you know, something that I quickly realized after my relationships,
Speaker 1: after my divorce. I was like, oh wow, this is
Speaker 1: now something that like I have to fix my stuff,
Speaker 1: you know. So that because I also think too, Like
Speaker 1: healthy attracts healthy, right, So I'm a big believer in
Speaker 1: that as well, Like you attract what you are. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I believe in that. Or for sure, don't be the
Speaker 1: Devil's advocate. Be the devil advocate. We want devil's advocate
Speaker 1: on the show. I still believe in that that the
Speaker 1: kit kat bar you can you really have. But I
Speaker 1: think that what's the saying I'm whatcher sayings too. It's
Speaker 1: so funny that you say that, but like you're the
Speaker 1: average of the five people you spend the most time with,
Speaker 1: Like have you heard that one? The average like cannot
Speaker 1: necessarily average, but like you're you're going to be like
Speaker 1: if you spend time with if three of the five
Speaker 1: people that you spend time with their toxic, that's gonna
Speaker 1: rub off on you. If you spend time with all people,
Speaker 1: which would be really you know, kind of like you're
Speaker 1: not seeking people out just because they have like a
Speaker 1: higher cue or well adjusted. I mean, we have relationships
Speaker 1: with all kinds of people. But if you, for some reason,
Speaker 1: had five your five closest relationships were all with like brilliant,
Speaker 1: completely well adjusted people, then you think about how much
Speaker 1: that would elevate your I mean, you don't audition your
Speaker 1: people for to be perfect. But yeah, um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting in the same way. We are
Speaker 1: all such different people, right, Yeah, Well, when I think
Speaker 1: if you spend time with five very different types, I mean,
Speaker 1: that reflects on who you are too, if you find
Speaker 1: if if it's five toxic people, that's bad. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's five needy people, that's I don't know. But
Speaker 1: then I always remind my daughter of that because she's
Speaker 1: you know, she's fifteen, and you know, there's the peer group.
Speaker 1: Is everything right? And I just keep I just keep
Speaker 1: reminding her that, like is this do you want to
Speaker 1: be like her? Do you want? Is that what you
Speaker 1: want to be like? Because if it's not, then you
Speaker 1: might want to consider dropping her out of the top five.
Speaker 1: Oh like my Space days, get out of my top
Speaker 1: I think you only have five? You had eight, We
Speaker 1: had five. I mean, i'd know why I'm getting five bridesmaids,
Speaker 1: so you know what I mean? Like, I think I
Speaker 1: could tailor it. I think you could make it less.
Speaker 1: The fewer than eight. I keep. I keep my group.
Speaker 1: Even though I say I have a bunch of best friends,
Speaker 1: I still keep my inner queendown and like it's five girls,
Speaker 1: queenom is five. There you go. So that's why I
Speaker 1: seen it's like top five since I always like go
Speaker 1: um okay, Emily. So I met Emily because I, okay,
Speaker 1: this is really embarrassing. And I don't know if I've
Speaker 1: ever told you this. I've never read a book ever
Speaker 1: until Something Borrowed. You mean that wasn't a close assignment ever?
Speaker 1: Did you just to cliff notes? For sure, I would
Speaker 1: read the first page, the back page, the middle, and
Speaker 1: then do my assignment. I've never I never. That doesn't
Speaker 1: it terrible? I never read a book. I hated reading.
Speaker 1: I literally loathed reading. But I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people feel that way until they find the right book.
Speaker 1: That's not uncommon, I think too to you know, for
Speaker 1: and I've I've been told that before book signing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think my books are pretty easy to read, accessible
Speaker 1: and you know, character driven. So I you know, and
Speaker 1: I think maybe someone like you told someone else who
Speaker 1: doesn't read a lot that same thing, and they pick
Speaker 1: it up and they read it. But it's about the
Speaker 1: right book, finding the connection to the right book. Something
Speaker 1: Borrowed is your first book, right, it was. So that
Speaker 1: was then the first book that I read, and I
Speaker 1: don't remember how, I'm sure I think it was, you
Speaker 1: know what it was. It was I saw the movie
Speaker 1: was about to come out, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: oh cool, I've never this looks like a really cool movie.
Speaker 1: I want to read the book before it comes out.
Speaker 1: That's what you're supposed to do. So but no, it's
Speaker 1: not because I actually got mad about the casting. Oh well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I thought the casting was great, but she
Speaker 1: doesn't look like I didn't Darcy in the book, and
Speaker 1: I thought Rachel was off. She thought she was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was Jennifer good one and Kate she's great. Love Jennifer.
Speaker 1: But I was like, I just imagined Rachel as like
Speaker 1: I would have casted like a Rachel McAdams, or like
Speaker 1: she got off with the part. First. She did not
Speaker 1: say that I love it. I always want to know
Speaker 1: because she actually was the very first person we went
Speaker 1: out to and she she turned it down. Yeah, feel
Speaker 1: bad because like I'm I was thrilled with that's a
Speaker 1: good one. Did. But yeah, it's really funny that you
Speaker 1: said that, because I think we felt that it's nothing
Speaker 1: about Jenny's acting ability. Because I thought she was fabulous.
Speaker 1: But the picture that my I pictured, Rachel McAdams like,
Speaker 1: that's closer to what I pictured, and I think so
Speaker 1: did the producers, which is why we we went out
Speaker 1: to her first. But Jenny was one of our top
Speaker 1: choices and she was she was great. But yeah, but
Speaker 1: I'm glad you read it because we wouldn't be sitting here.
Speaker 1: I know. Well, so then I read it because my
Speaker 1: thing is like I don't like reading books when it's
Speaker 1: not in first person, so like when someone says he
Speaker 1: said she said the entire time, or I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: so confused that, like you've already lost me because you
Speaker 1: want well, I think it's probably no, I don't think
Speaker 1: that you did, you would not get lost. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think. What it is is you you you
Speaker 1: want the immediacy of the experience. I'm like, Sue said,
Speaker 1: what like, I want to I want to be reading
Speaker 1: it and going like I want to feel like I
Speaker 1: am I'm reading your story like so connected to like
Speaker 1: if I'm just reading what the author is saying, what
Speaker 1: the person is saying, I'm kind of like, and then
Speaker 1: I do, Katherine, I get confused. I'm like wait, who
Speaker 1: is Are you dyslexic? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of people that aren't sort of under the age
Speaker 1: of who are dyslexic don't know they were because if
Speaker 1: they're not, they're so vigilant about it now at testing
Speaker 1: and so forth. But I bet you are a lot
Speaker 1: of really brilliant people. Obviously let me, Steve Jobs was dyslexic.
Speaker 1: I mean, like a lot of brilliant people are dyslexic.
Speaker 1: They're just more visual unless you know, like I don't
Speaker 1: do like like I wouldn't say, like, God, I know
Speaker 1: that's a dog. Well that's but are you a slow reader?
Speaker 1: Are you a slow wrider? Are you a slow reader?
Speaker 1: Obviously I'm just what he's like, God, those who you know?
Speaker 1: But that's trying to be funny. That only happens sometimes.
Speaker 1: But my daughter is dyslexic. And then I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not and it runs in families and
Speaker 1: we had her tested and they said she's dyslexic. Probably
Speaker 1: one of you is dyslexic. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm like, actually, one of the things
Speaker 1: I'm good at is reading and writing. And I looked
Speaker 1: at my husband, and I was like, oh, it's you,
Speaker 1: and I realized that he was. He's the slowest reader.
Speaker 1: You know, when you're like reading a magazine or a
Speaker 1: newspaper together on an airplane, like and you're sharing the
Speaker 1: thing and you get to the end and you turn
Speaker 1: the page and the other person's like wait, wait wait,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, okay, thinking like a few seconds
Speaker 1: and like all this time goes by before he'll but
Speaker 1: he's he's dyslexic. I sometimes actually read too fast, and
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I read, so I have to
Speaker 1: reread and then reread and reread. I like I reread
Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again. Is
Speaker 1: that that's that's a d D two Okay, great, well yeah,
Speaker 1: but they really go hand in hand. Just have a
Speaker 1: d D. And I'm just well, your creative and in
Speaker 1: your interpersonal skills are off the chain. I mean there's
Speaker 1: lots of different forms of and tell your emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: is your e Q is crazy high? Oh I got
Speaker 1: like a four team on my A C T, so
Speaker 1: not incredibly smart. But that's e Q. It's reading people's
Speaker 1: e Q. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: different things, yeah, Okay, yeah, I Q not not so
Speaker 1: much there. Um, Katherine, you read a lot though, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I wouldn't say a lot. I feel like
Speaker 1: you get that big thick books sell those scary people have,
Speaker 1: like like thrillers, Like I'm kind of like a guy
Speaker 1: with my books. Yeah, you please read one of her books.
Speaker 1: And she's like, I like mystery. I've asked you. Okay. So,
Speaker 1: out of all my books, the Lies that Bind, which
Speaker 1: is the one that I wrote last, it was the
Speaker 1: one that came out before this most recent, is the
Speaker 1: most thrillery and plot twisty. So I would recommend for
Speaker 1: you to read the Lines of Wine and they may
Speaker 1: have that into a limited series which we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about in a second. And so I think that's the
Speaker 1: one for you if you like, if you like that,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of quick plot. I have to have
Speaker 1: that because I really am not really a reader for
Speaker 1: that be like like what's going to happen next? And
Speaker 1: I just won't do it. Read. So back to me
Speaker 1: sliding into So I finished something borrowed and I'm like,
Speaker 1: holy crap, I've never read a book ever. I'm feeling
Speaker 1: so smart, so like like just happy and I need
Speaker 1: to know what's happening, like I need the next book,
Speaker 1: And so I go on Instagram and I just slide
Speaker 1: right into your d M s and I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with you. Oh my god, your books amazing. Just Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Janet Kramer. You probably have no idea who I am,
Speaker 1: but like I just like embellishing this, just like I mean,
Speaker 1: just like stroking her ego and telling how much I
Speaker 1: love her and saying like if like please please let
Speaker 1: me know like when your next book comes out. I
Speaker 1: mean I think I signed up even for like email alerts,
Speaker 1: like that's how obsessed I was. And then she DM
Speaker 1: me back and we've been friends ever since. Yes, we
Speaker 1: have UM and I've read every single one of her books.
Speaker 1: I'm halfway through Meant to Be, which is out right now,
Speaker 1: and it's so good. Yeah, we were going to do
Speaker 1: this podcast later, but then you were in town, and
Speaker 1: so we're doing it now, and she's read enough of
Speaker 1: it so that I mean, we're not We wouldn't discuss
Speaker 1: the plot anyway, because no, no, we're not going to
Speaker 1: discuss the plot. But there are some questions that I
Speaker 1: ask people about what is and they wanted to know
Speaker 1: what is your favorite book, if you could rank your
Speaker 1: top three books. It was one of them that came through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's hard, and I was like, oh, that's a good
Speaker 1: question because I've got mine. I mean, it's so much
Speaker 1: about time and place when you read something like I
Speaker 1: love the Broke Back Mountain. It's a novella that the
Speaker 1: movie was based on, but I think I read it
Speaker 1: at a time in my life. That and she's a
Speaker 1: brilliant writer. Um that would be one member of the wedding.
Speaker 1: I mean, um no, Carson Mco. The books that you wrote.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like you right, Brokeback Mountains.
Speaker 1: You're like, did you? I was like, wow, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry we're talking. I thought we were. You know,
Speaker 1: your your books. But that's I mean, it's good to know. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Backing up, Um, I think Something Blue the sequel or
Speaker 1: something Borrowed. So that's my sentimental favorite. It's one of
Speaker 1: the top three. And then I would say Meant to Be,
Speaker 1: which a lot of people are saying is most like
Speaker 1: Something Barred and Something Blue, which is the one that
Speaker 1: just came out. And then I love the One and Only,
Speaker 1: but it's the one that I would say people like
Speaker 1: a lot of people like the least. The people who
Speaker 1: love it love it, but the people who because it's
Speaker 1: about a girl who falls in love with her best
Speaker 1: friend's father, and a lot of people thought it was creepy.
Speaker 1: I know, and I love you for that character. I
Speaker 1: love so I always say, old man, I think he
Speaker 1: would kill that. Oh my god, I love the sports.
Speaker 1: She loves sports, and she falls in love with this,
Speaker 1: like really, Friend was like yeah, Friend was like so
Speaker 1: upset about and I just remember being like, oh but
Speaker 1: I loved that book. I thank you read that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: But that's what I mean. You loved it. But a
Speaker 1: lot of people like it's my lowest star review on Amazon.
Speaker 1: But the people who love it love it. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people say it's fascinating to
Speaker 1: me because I wrote a book something Borrowed where the
Speaker 1: girl the protagonist, falls in love with her best friend's
Speaker 1: fiance and has sex with him the whole summer leading
Speaker 1: up to her best friend getting married, like that is
Speaker 1: the most unlikable thing that you can do, and women
Speaker 1: read it and love it and everyone excuses her. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: very aggressive, and yeah, they all excuse her, and everyone
Speaker 1: loves the book. Then I write this One and Only,
Speaker 1: which is about a girl who falls in love with
Speaker 1: their best friend's father. The mother's debt, she's passed away. Like,
Speaker 1: there's no infidelity in this book. Granted there's an age
Speaker 1: difference and it would be a little weird if, like,
Speaker 1: you know, but people are like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: can't believe she did that. I'm like, she actually didn't
Speaker 1: do anything wrong, she didn't know. And then they throw
Speaker 1: out the word incest, which is like super like super definitional,
Speaker 1: like incest is when you have sex with someone you're
Speaker 1: related to, Like, there's no incest in the book. But
Speaker 1: it's just it's interesting. But I love that. I love
Speaker 1: my books can make people sort of feel extreme ways,
Speaker 1: like that some people love them and some people hate them.
Speaker 1: And you know, certain books like and I will love
Speaker 1: another one. And it's like, I don't ever want to
Speaker 1: write a book that everybody just likes. I want to
Speaker 1: always write books that some people love and some people
Speaker 1: like it bothers them. It's a conversation. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: like you want to sort of evoke emotion. That's so
Speaker 1: interesting Now that I'm thinking about it, because really, Darcy
Speaker 1: was the one that people didn't like. It's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: she was cheating on her best friends, Like oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even like I loved Rachel. I wanted
Speaker 1: Rachel to have but then because because and that's sort
Speaker 1: of like that's something that I try to do in
Speaker 1: every book, Like we are so messy and complicated, like
Speaker 1: human beings, like we you know, our relationships are messy
Speaker 1: and complicated. We end up hurting the people we love
Speaker 1: the most. We mess things up. We have to be forgiven,
Speaker 1: we have to forgive others. And I just think that's
Speaker 1: what I try to capture when I write of all
Speaker 1: those like complexities and who we are as as people,
Speaker 1: but especially as women, and try to make my readers
Speaker 1: relate to the to the you know, characters and root
Speaker 1: for them in spite of what they're doing because they're
Speaker 1: often doing messed up things. Well another yeah, because I
Speaker 1: mean what we all do? We all do? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the one, um, gosh, everyone there's always something where
Speaker 1: it's um the lawyers, Oh no, they know they were
Speaker 1: in jury jury duty. Oh that was the green book
Speaker 1: that was love, the one You're with Love the one
Speaker 1: you're with. That was about the one who got away
Speaker 1: away she done her husband? She did, Yeah, she did too.
Speaker 1: There was some fidelity that one, and I remember being like,
Speaker 1: but I was a mandator. Yeah, well she didn't totally
Speaker 1: cross the line. And then that book was written in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, so if you didn't read it,
Speaker 1: we're going to spoil the plot. But that's sort of
Speaker 1: the one that's like, everyone has someone that they can't
Speaker 1: get out of their system, like someone from their past
Speaker 1: that they cook like, that they look up on Facebook,
Speaker 1: that they stalk, that they like to have that person.
Speaker 1: I mean, married for how many years? Twenty years? But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd say I did for a lot. Well, I am
Speaker 1: in this weird category. I'm not trying to evade the
Speaker 1: question because I will answer it. But I still talk
Speaker 1: to all my like almost all my ex boyfriends, Like
Speaker 1: I still am good friends with him. Like I just
Speaker 1: got a message from my college boyfriend today said, my
Speaker 1: parents saw you in Good Morning America. I don't think
Speaker 1: I wrote him back either. Um, but I love him
Speaker 1: my door room he stayed at the house. Yeah yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: and my husband loves when he comes to the house.
Speaker 1: He's a writer. He writes for TV, and so it's
Speaker 1: kind of he would probably be my one who got away,
Speaker 1: but because we're friends, like he's my most significant X
Speaker 1: in other words, but we're still friends. Is there a
Speaker 1: story based on him? No, there actually isn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: we are so much friends that it almost feels like
Speaker 1: we're cousins. Like it's really which I think is why
Speaker 1: you can be really friends. But there was someone in
Speaker 1: New York that that gave me that feeling of like
Speaker 1: I needed to look him up and like I need
Speaker 1: to what he was doing. But recently, like he's totally
Speaker 1: out of my system, like I don't care anymore. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't care even then, but you still, right,
Speaker 1: you're still curious even if you it's not that you
Speaker 1: want to be with them and you pine for them,
Speaker 1: but you're just curious, like you're sort of wonder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you always kind of look up right cat, like you're
Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh, I wonder what they're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you want to be with them, and sometimes affirmatively
Speaker 1: because you certainly don't want to be with them, right,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes that's right makes you feel better about
Speaker 1: your decisions. Yeah, you want to feel, you know, an
Speaker 1: affirmation that you know about that. But there's a lot
Speaker 1: of material to mine with women in our relationships, for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean I had like three ideas from my next
Speaker 1: book when you were here last night, Oh tell us more, Well, no,
Speaker 1: because we'd be revealing was it was it? Was it
Speaker 1: based on my life or yeah, there was like a
Speaker 1: couple of things you said. Remember, I'm like, this could
Speaker 1: be a character. Yeah, yeah, based all your books on
Speaker 1: somebody you know? Or do you just kind of come
Speaker 1: up or it's scenarios, So it's more like inspirations for
Speaker 1: like an idea, you know. Baby Proof was my third
Speaker 1: book about a woman who didn't want to have a
Speaker 1: baby in her husband did that was based on it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the other way around, And then
Speaker 1: all the tabloids were saying that Jennifer didn't want to
Speaker 1: have a baby, which we found out wasn't necessarily the truth,
Speaker 1: but that was what they were saying. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: let me flip this and make the woman not want
Speaker 1: to have the baby. So that was like a tabloid inspiration,
Speaker 1: which is the only time that's happened. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: it's more of a scenario like, oh my gosh, what
Speaker 1: would happen if you fell in love with your best
Speaker 1: friend's Beyonce or you were attracted to your um best
Speaker 1: friend's dad or you know, like so it'll be like
Speaker 1: but it's not. You know, it's not not that I
Speaker 1: would do a character who's like Jana and looks like
Speaker 1: Janet is Janet, but it's she was describing something about
Speaker 1: her life last night, and I thought, oh, this would
Speaker 1: be a good scenario a set up for a book,
Speaker 1: not like a set up as in a blind date setup,
Speaker 1: but like as a as a starting point set up.
Speaker 1: I know. I'm just like, she's good. Your books just
Speaker 1: make me at the end because I'm just they just
Speaker 1: make me happy. Um, because usually it ends, there's one
Speaker 1: that like it didn't end. I was like, no, you're
Speaker 1: pissed at me. I think wrapped and yes, I like
Speaker 1: him wrapped in a bow. Right, Yeah, that's like you
Speaker 1: don't always get that, but you don't always get the bow,
Speaker 1: but you usually get like a hopeful And isn't that
Speaker 1: sort of you know again the metaphor of the empty closet, like,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not the best you've ever felt in
Speaker 1: your life? Probably but it's also like you're really hope.
Speaker 1: It's like you're hopeful, like it's like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of potential here. And that's how I feel like, Janna,
Speaker 1: You've you've managed to find that place through difficult times.
Speaker 1: I think you feel a sense of hope and excitement
Speaker 1: about the future. So that's what I want from my characters. No,
Speaker 1: I love and I love that you love them. For
Speaker 1: the most part, I know I love them. And Um,
Speaker 1: someone just said, which I think we just is there
Speaker 1: any book character that Janna you'd want me to play?
Speaker 1: But we just said that I think you would kill.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've read this one, but The
Speaker 1: Heart of the Matter, I've read every single you would
Speaker 1: kill and I have told I could you know, I
Speaker 1: can talk the producer right now and perv it um
Speaker 1: that I think you would. You would kill either role
Speaker 1: in um Heart of the Matter, but especially the Valerie role.
Speaker 1: She's the single mother whose son is Blake burned. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: she would. You would. You'd be so good at that.
Speaker 1: But you've got that, You've got that confidence and vulnerability. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Um what here? Lets how do you find? Okay,
Speaker 1: you already that one Um, new Emily Giffen Reader, which
Speaker 1: book should I start with? Meant to be most recent?
Speaker 1: Meant to be most recent? And the reason that I
Speaker 1: say that is because it's set the farthest back in time.
Speaker 1: It's set in the mid nineties in New York and
Speaker 1: the Hampton's about the most eligible bachelor in the world,
Speaker 1: people's sexiest man alive. Um, and he falls in love
Speaker 1: with a girl sort of you know, from with a
Speaker 1: troubled background, and it's a love story. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a summer read. You can escape to the not only
Speaker 1: into this relationship in this world, but literally into the past,
Speaker 1: back to the nineties. I think it's the it's the
Speaker 1: one to start with. Will there ever be a Something
Speaker 1: Blue movie? There was like a million questions about that
Speaker 1: Something Blue. Um, they're okay, So here's the dilemma. So
Speaker 1: Something Blue is the book that is right after Something Borrowed. So, UM,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna out him right now because I already
Speaker 1: did it at a signing. Do you see not out him?
Speaker 1: But Colin won't want to No, No, Colin would love
Speaker 1: to do John Krasinski, who's Ethan who would then be
Speaker 1: the lead. And Something Blue? So Kate Hudson's So I
Speaker 1: don't know where Kate stands, but I feel like we
Speaker 1: could convince Kate. But I don't feel like John's wanting
Speaker 1: to do that. Where he is in his career, he's
Speaker 1: directing more and producing more. So I think we should
Speaker 1: do a reboot of the whole series and do a
Speaker 1: limited series. You get all the back story. I think
Speaker 1: we should do a limited series like a three season
Speaker 1: of Something Bartered and Something Blue with all new characters. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's what I think. And I would like to play Rachel,
Speaker 1: and we'd pick you over Rachel McAdams. I mean, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't see if you get Rachel um but I wow,
Speaker 1: that's and I feel like you need to do that
Speaker 1: because you need to then reboot. Yeah, something you have
Speaker 1: to You have to bring something borrowed back right to
Speaker 1: do Something Blue. Sure, but you need Something Blue. It
Speaker 1: needs to show all that backstory of the friendship. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this, everyone's had a friendship that's complicated
Speaker 1: like that. Don't you think like a friendship where you
Speaker 1: like love each other and hit each other. Have you
Speaker 1: ever had that cat you love each other and hay,
Speaker 1: like you love someone but you also can't and her
Speaker 1: and you then you and you want to like it's
Speaker 1: me cat h No, definitely not. Well, that happens. For sure.
Speaker 1: That happens, I think typically when we're younger, but can
Speaker 1: happen at all ages. I swear. I go over to
Speaker 1: my mom's community retirement home and there's like drama with people,
Speaker 1: like they didn't invite her to someone to dinner, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think, I don't think we ever completely
Speaker 1: grow out of some of that drama. That makes me
Speaker 1: think of like just these industries in general. You know
Speaker 1: how it's all kind of like you know, like actors
Speaker 1: and singers and everything. It's like they're friends, but are
Speaker 1: they really friends. They kind of love each other, but
Speaker 1: they kind of ate each other. That's what makes me
Speaker 1: think of that. Well, I really like that idea, And
Speaker 1: let me know how I can help because that would
Speaker 1: be really cool. Well you're helping right now and talking
Speaker 1: about it. The buzz. We needs to it needs to
Speaker 1: be out there. We need to do We need to
Speaker 1: do a limited series, something Borrowed, something Blue, all new characters.
Speaker 1: That would be so amazing. Um. Okay, there's what advice
Speaker 1: would you give to an aspiring aspiring writer. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: one thing, I wouldn't call yourself an aspiring writer. I
Speaker 1: would call yourself a writer. Lose the aspiring because if
Speaker 1: you're writing, you're a writer. Whether or not you're published
Speaker 1: doesn't change what it is you do. And so I
Speaker 1: think that would be my starting point. But also just right, right,
Speaker 1: just right all the time, and don't worry about, you know,
Speaker 1: getting published, like right what you love and then eventually
Speaker 1: you'll find success if that's what you want. What about
Speaker 1: when you're in a writer's block? What do you do? Well?
Speaker 1: What do you do when you don't want to work
Speaker 1: out and go to the gym? I don't go so well,
Speaker 1: it's like and then I don't go the next day,
Speaker 1: and I don't go the next but eventually you go, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, writer's block is really just and it happens
Speaker 1: to me all the time, but it's really just like
Speaker 1: it's too hard. You don't want to do it, you
Speaker 1: don't feel like doing it, you can't you're not in
Speaker 1: the headspace. You just have to make yourself do it.
Speaker 1: It's like when you don't want to work out, you
Speaker 1: often you don't and I'm right there with you, but
Speaker 1: just put your shoes on and go out the door
Speaker 1: and at least go for a walk. Like that's how
Speaker 1: you should approach writing, just at least just right. You know,
Speaker 1: write down anything. You can always fix bad words, You
Speaker 1: can always fix a bad scene, but you can't fix
Speaker 1: no scene at all a blank paper. So you know what,
Speaker 1: that's a really good metaphor too, Like you can fix
Speaker 1: you can fix these things, but you can't fix this thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't fix nothing. Yeah, and sometimes nothing feels easier.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like finde I love a good I
Speaker 1: love a good quote brine, I'm a she loves it.
Speaker 1: No that is I'm going to do a little video. Okay,
Speaker 1: Lies That Bind? What is that going to be on?
Speaker 1: Let me so it's a limited series, So what is
Speaker 1: that going to be on? Um? The Lies That Bind?
Speaker 1: We're developed develop uping it right now. So I read
Speaker 1: the pilot, which is awesome. What is it going to be?
Speaker 1: And um, we don't know. We we haven't brought it
Speaker 1: out to streamership, so we have it to our an actress.
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you after I'm gonna I'm already getting
Speaker 1: in trouble like three times over right now. So but
Speaker 1: it's a five parts, five shows. I read the pilot.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's a little more um cat you'll like
Speaker 1: it even more than you like my book. But that's
Speaker 1: not to say you need to write the read the book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's even more twisty, you know, as because
Speaker 1: TV that's what you need, right the hook at the
Speaker 1: end of the first series. So, um, to wrap it up,
Speaker 1: why should people read Meant to Be? They should read
Speaker 1: all of them? But like, what's the thing and meant
Speaker 1: to Be? And I know you said it's a love story,
Speaker 1: but like, is there is there something that they're going
Speaker 1: to really get from it that like, well, it's it's
Speaker 1: um it's inspired by John Kennedy Jr. And Caroline Bassett
Speaker 1: like icons obviously, like Carolin Massett's i'le icon And you know,
Speaker 1: the whole notion of what if, what would have happened
Speaker 1: if they hadn't died in that plane crash sort of
Speaker 1: inspired me to to write this book. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think if you're looking for a beach read that
Speaker 1: is a page turner. Like everyone says they read this
Speaker 1: in like one sitting, which is sort of a depressing
Speaker 1: thing to tell an author, because you're like, I took
Speaker 1: two years of my life and you read it. You
Speaker 1: didn't even get up to pee, Like, oh my gosh, wait,
Speaker 1: but isn't that such a compliment. It is? Here's it's
Speaker 1: it is. I love when people say that normally four kids,
Speaker 1: I would read your book in two days, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: that's how fast? And like now it's obviously taking me
Speaker 1: a little longer because like working kids. But like I
Speaker 1: almost don't want to read it to be finished it,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, because then then what do
Speaker 1: I have. I don't need the book. You'll have to
Speaker 1: wait two years. It's exhausting to wait. I need you
Speaker 1: to come on. It's an escape. Though, this book is
Speaker 1: an escape. I've written some darker ones, like the one
Speaker 1: set in Nashville. All we Ever Wanted was dark? My
Speaker 1: name wasn't that one? Yeah? Yeah it was. It wasn't
Speaker 1: always screamed um, but it's that's darker. If you want
Speaker 1: like a darker book that really makes you think I do.
Speaker 1: The Cobalt Blue and All we Ever Wanted but meant
Speaker 1: to be is an escape And don't we all need
Speaker 1: that right now? Yes? Don't we? I think we do Emily.
Speaker 1: Where can all of our amazing listeners find you. I
Speaker 1: won't give him your address, don't worry. Only I can
Speaker 1: stalk her and find out her address. Um, you can
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at Emily Giffen author and I
Speaker 1: have a book club if you're looking for one book
Speaker 1: a month to read and then discuss. Um, it's at
Speaker 1: e G Book Club, which, Um, it's a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to just we chat with the author live and
Speaker 1: um it's very so yeah, it's fun and um and yeah,
Speaker 1: I just joined TikTok. Oh my gosh, that's a whole
Speaker 1: new world. I just it's at Emily Emily giff An
Speaker 1: author too. But I just joined it because my kids
Speaker 1: are all three teenagers is and they're insisted that I
Speaker 1: get on. And so I don't know how. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't do it often, But did you do it?
Speaker 1: I mean everyone's mom. But I only know what I'm
Speaker 1: not like creative enough. You are, figures you are. It's
Speaker 1: just complicated, it's very compete. Um. We love you, Emily.
Speaker 1: I love you too, Katherine. How you doing over there? Bad? Y'all?
Speaker 1: Have fun, enjoy your wine, enjoy your time, ladies. That
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun and um, I promise that
Speaker 1: I will um not uh stalk you completely and you
Speaker 1: can't know we're from I know it's true. I love you,
Speaker 1: Um Catherine, love you. Get out of your closet okay.
Speaker 1: By guys Susan Okoye. Nice to meet you.