WEBVTT - Something Borrowed with Emily Giffin 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:07.280 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. Okay, 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.119 I am so excited for today's podcast because I am 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:15.000 with the amazing Emily Giffin, who is number one New 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.640 York Times best selling author. She's written Something Borrowed, Something Blue, Love, 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.520 The One You're With, Heart of the Matter, Baby Proof. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.200 I mean, I can keep going on and on. Hi, Catherine, Hi, 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.080 have you ever met Emily before? I don't think, so 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:34.960 hio to me. You nice to meet you, Catherine. So um, 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.600 why are you? Are you in a closet? I'm in 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.920 my closet that's empty that my husband or whatever because 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.839 I wasn't there where all this stuff was moved out 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:46.640 and it was too echoly. So Eastern told me to 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.200 go to a closet. You know what, that's a really 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.280 solid metaphor right there, right you. You in an empty closet. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.240 I love it. It's like cleaned out and ready to go. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.040 And how can I ask you a question? Though? Before 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.120 we Emily, we're going to get to all your stuff 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.399 to talk of help. When we went into it last night, 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.560 girlfriend didn't way. Um, so you and an empty closet 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.800 right now? I remember when I got divorced. I think 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.280 that was my number one thing, was like I don't 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.880 want to walk into the closet and see the empty, 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.200 like see his stuff gone like that was like that 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.680 to me was going to be like the you're like 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.920 more space for my sweaters. But I just I don't know, 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.160 like I was just I remember telling Pam and Chris 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:33.920 and I'm like, you guys should They're like white crying, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.200 and I'm like, I don't want to walk in and 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.600 see his stuff gone. And so they went and took 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.400 they packed all of his clothes and then they then 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.080 they moved my stuff and rearranged it. And so I'm curious, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.600 like you sitting in there, like how is that for you? 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.400 I mean, it's a little weird. I don't think I'm 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.800 as emotional about it, but yeah, that part has been 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.240 interesting because you know, me, I was kind of like, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.000 all right, I'm ready to get out of my space. 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.640 I'm like ready, like I'm you know, and then I'll 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.320 like kind of look around and it just kind of weird. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.400 It's definitely different and odd, but you know, I'm also 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:06.720 kind of excited to take over the shoe part of it. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:13.080 And so it's fine, it's you know, it's all good. Yeah, 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:21.840 it's fine. It's good. Everything's fine, everything's um yeah, no, 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.799 it's and it's okay to still be upset at times. Sure, Yeah, no, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.120 I mean it is definitely it's like a weird feeling 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:29.959 like it's still kind of feels a little bit like 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.560 a dream kind of, you know, it just doesn't really 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.639 feel real yet. Well, it's you've had him living in 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.000 your space for how many years exactly, and then all 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.120 of a sudden, this person like moves out, and I 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:43.880 mean it's I remember to me, it's like it's like 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.840 an oh death, but they're still alive. Yeah, it's like 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.440 that weird like they're everything is gone, and it's like 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.119 you're missing this. There are a ghost basically in the house. Yeah. 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.800 I still think I was telling a friend this yesterday, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.840 you know, because it's the summer. We've been traveling, you know, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:02.359 I mean, k and then we're just in l a, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.280 Like it just doesn't it nothing's normal yet. So I 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:10.120 think once things are like normal, like normal schedules, normal everything, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.240 then I think it'll kind of hit me. Right now, 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.480 I kind of feel just like you know, relating tomorrow, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.239 you know, just like travel and all that has just 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.440 made it feel it doesn't feel normal yet, so I think, yeah, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:21.280 you know, I mean, I can relate to that. It's 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.000 always like when I come home, which is why Hi, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.400 I'm in Atlanta, so like, this is one of the 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.040 reasons why I'm in Atlanta right now is because and 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.560 I texted Katherine and Christen because I'm like, hey, guys, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.839 I'm going to Atlanta because as much as I love 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.680 my space and time home for that the week that 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.080 I'm not with the kids, I'm kind of just like 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.720 for the summer schedule, it's like I just feel very 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.120 out of place in my house and it's like just 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:46.760 like how you're alone right now to in your house, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.080 like it's amazing, but but then I feel like at 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.840 times kind of like all right, like I want to 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.000 get out of here because it makes me sad or 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:55.920 I mean, may before you're enjoying it because your kids 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.160 are like you in the entire house to yourself. But 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:59.600 I know what you mean. Though it's a little weird. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.640 It's a little disorienting for sure, but they're just gone 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.800 for a month and they'll come back and mess everything 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:12.360 up again. You only get a month, I know, But 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.440 I love you, and I just wanted to check in 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.720 on you in the in the closet. Um, So do 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.520 you know how I met Emily? Didn't you like stalker? Yeah, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.400 so Emily Giffen is it is? But it's the truth. Yeah, 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.920 you can't stalk someone when you have mutual Like, no, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.600 I didn't know where it was not true. So she 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.279 my closest cousin who lives in well, she's in DC now, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:41.800 when she lived in Kentucky at the time. She's like, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.200 how in the world do you know Jane Crant had 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.760 such street cred there for we got so much love. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:49.400 By the way, because we had a wine night last night, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.119 Everyone's like, oh my god, how are you guys? Friends? 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.520 Like that's so cool. And I'm like, well, I stopped 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:58.679 her older wiser mentor whatever. I schooled you. You did, Actually, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.719 she she did. She I opened up more to her 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.960 last night than I ever do I ever do. It 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.360 was weird, but I feel like you're on this transformational Yeah, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.800 a little bit. You're a little bit. Just you know, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.320 it's my my sons are going to college in the 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.440 fall and so, and they're twins. There's two at once, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.360 and we're downsizing a bit, and just you know, I'm 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.560 still my career is the same and the marriage is 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.040 the same. But I just feel like there's a lot 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.720 of like, you know, I've got on. Well, I was 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.640 researching this this place that's like a great place to like, Okay, 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.200 I just wasn't yeah, um, but I was looking at 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.720 the middle program, the non trauma program, and it was like, 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.360 do you feel this way? Do you feel this way? 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.599 And it was really interesting and I texted her right 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.960 away this morning. Some of them, yeah, some of them. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.040 But I think I'm always in the camp that, you know, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.040 whatever is happening in your life is whether you're you know, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.760 getting a divorce and sitting in the closet or your 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.880 sons are going to call it like, there's always change happening. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.760 And if there isn't change happening, it's going to happen anyway, 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.080 you know. And so and you have to sort of 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.160 embrace these transitional moments and and just you know, be 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.440 the best version of yourself at all times. And I 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.760 think that's what you've become. You've really good at that, 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.920 Like you've really like gained a lot of what you 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.640 had some nuggets of wisdom. I'm supposed to be the 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.080 older wiser one buss is because I came back from 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.720 on site. So I told her. I was like, man, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.480 because things things change when you go. When you put 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.400 yourself in these transformational places like you see, you start 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:37.320 to see change. Yeah, And I was telling why I think, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.040 yeah right. I was telling my assistant Kate about it. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.320 Who's you know? She she's um been with, We've been 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.479 working together forever. We're very close. But I was sort 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.560 of giving her the rundown and Janny says, yes, she 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.120 should go too, and I'm like, wait, you don't know 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.680 a single thing about her. But I thought that was 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.880 so interesting that I replayed it later because I thought 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.600 to myself, probably every human, like everyone could benefit. I mean, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.640 not every one has the luxury of being able to 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.840 find the time or the the money or whatever to go. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:06.680 But like, I think it was interesting that your reaction 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.000 is she should go too. I think everybody should do 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.600 work and self discovery. And I think that's, um, it's 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.560 only going to help what man. I was Oh, man, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.440 someone said, um, you end up bleeding over if you don't. 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.520 If you don't, God, this is this is I'm like 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.800 that person that just butchers every single I am the 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.440 worst and then but Katherine whatever, you were the same. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.280 I can't do sayings whatever those are called, but you 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.080 just I butcher them terribly. You butcher lyrics too all 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.880 the time. I remember any time I put my mic out, y'all, 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:46.440 it's because I don't remember the lyrics. Everybody that that's hilarious. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.440 Why is like the like really you know good but 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.360 like in WAYI wan or whatever, but like, no, no, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.240 I'll be like and they all nail it. Nope, most 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:00.520 of the time they don't know the song either. Um 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.520 but no, though, the saying was like, if you don't 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.400 fix your wound, you're gonna end up bleeding all over 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:13.800 the next person. Oh M. Like so if you don't like, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.160 you can keep putting a bandaid, bandaid, band aid, but like, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.800 that wound's gonna keep getting reopen. It's gonna keep getting reopened, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.040 and the next relationship that you're in, if you haven't 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.080 fixed that wound, you will end up bleeding all over 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.760 the person that did not cut you. So interesting. You 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.760 bring that up a conversation that Amy and I had 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.520 the last session, where it is basically we talked about 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.319 on site, we talked about and She's like, you know, 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.800 you can take this time and you can just veg 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.520 out and do all and do all that for a 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.160 little while. You know, like you can do this, do that. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.760 You know. She's like, but if you don't take steps 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.559 and you don't have intentions and you don't change things, 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.480 it's going to go over into the next relationship. And 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.559 I'm like, oh no, that's why I'm still here. You know. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.319 It's just so it's so interesting because that's so true, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.800 Like I could easily skirt through this and just like 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.320 not even think about what I need to change in myself, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.360 what I need to do differently what I and then 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.319 just walk into the next relationship the same person. But 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.480 that was I just think of that, Yeah, and it'll 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.599 be the same. You will be the same cast, and 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.760 the man will be or woman whoever will be not 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.160 saying but you know what I'm saying, like to the 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:27.959 person listening to the the man will be the same cast, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.000 just different face, like the same character, different face. And 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.559 that's you know, something that I quickly realized after my relationships, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.920 after my divorce. I was like, oh wow, this is 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.600 now something that like I have to fix my stuff, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.920 you know. So that because I also think too, Like 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.800 healthy attracts healthy, right, So I'm a big believer in 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.480 that as well, Like you attract what you are. Sure, yeah, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.599 I believe in that. Or for sure, don't be the 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.240 Devil's advocate. Be the devil advocate. We want devil's advocate 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.040 on the show. I still believe in that that the 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.719 kit kat bar you can you really have. But I 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.320 think that what's the saying I'm whatcher sayings too. It's 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.760 so funny that you say that, but like you're the 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.160 average of the five people you spend the most time with, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.800 Like have you heard that one? The average like cannot 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.160 necessarily average, but like you're you're going to be like 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.160 if you spend time with if three of the five 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.200 people that you spend time with their toxic, that's gonna 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.480 rub off on you. If you spend time with all people, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.559 which would be really you know, kind of like you're 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.880 not seeking people out just because they have like a 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.000 higher cue or well adjusted. I mean, we have relationships 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.520 with all kinds of people. But if you, for some reason, 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.360 had five your five closest relationships were all with like brilliant, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:47.200 completely well adjusted people, then you think about how much 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.959 that would elevate your I mean, you don't audition your 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.400 people for to be perfect. But yeah, um, but yeah, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.960 I think it's interesting in the same way. We are 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.880 all such different people, right, Yeah, Well, when I think 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.600 if you spend time with five very different types, I mean, 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.640 that reflects on who you are too, if you find 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.559 if if it's five toxic people, that's bad. You know, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.480 if it's five needy people, that's I don't know. But 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.120 then I always remind my daughter of that because she's 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.320 you know, she's fifteen, and you know, there's the peer group. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.439 Is everything right? And I just keep I just keep 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.640 reminding her that, like is this do you want to 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.160 be like her? Do you want? Is that what you 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.880 want to be like? Because if it's not, then you 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.520 might want to consider dropping her out of the top five. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.160 Oh like my Space days, get out of my top 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.199 I think you only have five? You had eight, We 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.200 had five. I mean, i'd know why I'm getting five bridesmaids, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:46.679 so you know what I mean? Like, I think I 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.760 could tailor it. I think you could make it less. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.560 The fewer than eight. I keep. I keep my group. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.440 Even though I say I have a bunch of best friends, 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.240 I still keep my inner queendown and like it's five girls, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.319 queenom is five. There you go. So that's why I 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.199 seen it's like top five since I always like go 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:10.319 um okay, Emily. So I met Emily because I, okay, 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.400 this is really embarrassing. And I don't know if I've 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.360 ever told you this. I've never read a book ever 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.560 until Something Borrowed. You mean that wasn't a close assignment ever? 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.040 Did you just to cliff notes? For sure, I would 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.640 read the first page, the back page, the middle, and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.480 then do my assignment. I've never I never. That doesn't 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.160 it terrible? I never read a book. I hated reading. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.920 I literally loathed reading. But I think a lot of 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.080 people feel that way until they find the right book. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.719 That's not uncommon, I think too to you know, for 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.800 and I've I've been told that before book signing. Yeah, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.640 I think my books are pretty easy to read, accessible 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.959 and you know, character driven. So I you know, and 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.679 I think maybe someone like you told someone else who 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.760 doesn't read a lot that same thing, and they pick 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.079 it up and they read it. But it's about the 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.840 right book, finding the connection to the right book. Something 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.719 Borrowed is your first book, right, it was. So that 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:06.719 was then the first book that I read, and I 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.800 don't remember how, I'm sure I think it was, you 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.640 know what it was. It was I saw the movie 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.439 was about to come out, and so I was like, 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.560 oh cool, I've never this looks like a really cool movie. 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.800 I want to read the book before it comes out. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.920 That's what you're supposed to do. So but no, it's 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.040 not because I actually got mad about the casting. Oh well, yeah, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.079 I mean I thought the casting was great, but she 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.920 doesn't look like I didn't Darcy in the book, and 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.440 I thought Rachel was off. She thought she was. Yeah, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.000 she was Jennifer good one and Kate she's great. Love Jennifer. 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.280 But I was like, I just imagined Rachel as like 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:48.079 I would have casted like a Rachel McAdams, or like 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.120 she got off with the part. First. She did not 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:52.920 say that I love it. I always want to know 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.800 because she actually was the very first person we went 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.200 out to and she she turned it down. Yeah, feel 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.920 bad because like I'm I was thrilled with that's a 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.360 good one. Did. But yeah, it's really funny that you 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.000 said that, because I think we felt that it's nothing 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.720 about Jenny's acting ability. Because I thought she was fabulous. 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:17.199 But the picture that my I pictured, Rachel McAdams like, 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.280 that's closer to what I pictured, and I think so 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.680 did the producers, which is why we we went out 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.280 to her first. But Jenny was one of our top 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.000 choices and she was she was great. But yeah, but 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.400 I'm glad you read it because we wouldn't be sitting here. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.240 I know. Well, so then I read it because my 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.440 thing is like I don't like reading books when it's 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.400 not in first person, so like when someone says he 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.240 said she said the entire time, or I'm like, I'm 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.520 so confused that, like you've already lost me because you 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.680 want well, I think it's probably no, I don't think 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.960 that you did, you would not get lost. And that's 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.360 what I think. What it is is you you you 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.280 want the immediacy of the experience. I'm like, Sue said, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.480 what like, I want to I want to be reading 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.360 it and going like I want to feel like I 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.960 am I'm reading your story like so connected to like 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.760 if I'm just reading what the author is saying, what 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.240 the person is saying, I'm kind of like, and then 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.120 I do, Katherine, I get confused. I'm like wait, who 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.240 is Are you dyslexic? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. I mean a 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.080 lot of people that aren't sort of under the age 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.280 of who are dyslexic don't know they were because if 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.760 they're not, they're so vigilant about it now at testing 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.760 and so forth. But I bet you are a lot 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.640 of really brilliant people. Obviously let me, Steve Jobs was dyslexic. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:32.960 I mean, like a lot of brilliant people are dyslexic. 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:39.280 They're just more visual unless you know, like I don't 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.360 do like like I wouldn't say, like, God, I know 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.120 that's a dog. Well that's but are you a slow reader? 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.160 Are you a slow wrider? Are you a slow reader? 0:15:52.040 --> 0:16:01.400 Obviously I'm just what he's like, God, those who you know? 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.000 But that's trying to be funny. That only happens sometimes. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.480 But my daughter is dyslexic. And then I was like, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.400 you know, I'm not and it runs in families and 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.800 we had her tested and they said she's dyslexic. Probably 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.640 one of you is dyslexic. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.360 you know, like I'm like, actually, one of the things 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.960 I'm good at is reading and writing. And I looked 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.120 at my husband, and I was like, oh, it's you, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.400 and I realized that he was. He's the slowest reader. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.160 You know, when you're like reading a magazine or a 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.360 newspaper together on an airplane, like and you're sharing the 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.600 thing and you get to the end and you turn 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.640 the page and the other person's like wait, wait wait, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.320 and I'd be like, okay, thinking like a few seconds 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.000 and like all this time goes by before he'll but 0:16:46.240 --> 0:17:01.440 he's he's dyslexic. I sometimes actually read too fast, and 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.000 I don't remember what I read, so I have to 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.960 reread and then reread and reread. I like I reread 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.040 the same thing over and over and over again. Is 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.360 that that's that's a d D two Okay, great, well yeah, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.480 but they really go hand in hand. Just have a 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:19.280 d D. And I'm just well, your creative and in 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.960 your interpersonal skills are off the chain. I mean there's 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.000 lots of different forms of and tell your emotional intelligence 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.040 is your e Q is crazy high? Oh I got 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:29.760 like a four team on my A C T, so 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.439 not incredibly smart. But that's e Q. It's reading people's 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.960 e Q. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that great. Yeah, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.960 different things, yeah, Okay, yeah, I Q not not so 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.800 much there. Um, Katherine, you read a lot though, right, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.560 I mean I wouldn't say a lot. I feel like 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.159 you get that big thick books sell those scary people have, 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.080 like like thrillers, Like I'm kind of like a guy 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.640 with my books. Yeah, you please read one of her books. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.399 And she's like, I like mystery. I've asked you. Okay. So, 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.760 out of all my books, the Lies that Bind, which 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.200 is the one that I wrote last, it was the 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.480 one that came out before this most recent, is the 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.920 most thrillery and plot twisty. So I would recommend for 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.760 you to read the Lines of Wine and they may 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.040 have that into a limited series which we're gonna talk 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.159 about in a second. And so I think that's the 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.879 one for you if you like, if you like that, 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.680 you know, kind of quick plot. I have to have 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.119 that because I really am not really a reader for 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.080 that be like like what's going to happen next? And 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:35.879 I just won't do it. Read. So back to me 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.639 sliding into So I finished something borrowed and I'm like, 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.720 holy crap, I've never read a book ever. I'm feeling 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.119 so smart, so like like just happy and I need 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.560 to know what's happening, like I need the next book, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.359 And so I go on Instagram and I just slide 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:53.760 right into your d M s and I'm like, I'm 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.920 obsessed with you. Oh my god, your books amazing. Just Hi, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.840 I'm Janet Kramer. You probably have no idea who I am, 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.919 but like I just like embellishing this, just like I mean, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.920 just like stroking her ego and telling how much I 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.520 love her and saying like if like please please let 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.520 me know like when your next book comes out. I 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.800 mean I think I signed up even for like email alerts, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.440 like that's how obsessed I was. And then she DM 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.440 me back and we've been friends ever since. Yes, we 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.480 have UM and I've read every single one of her books. 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.040 I'm halfway through Meant to Be, which is out right now, 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.399 and it's so good. Yeah, we were going to do 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.480 this podcast later, but then you were in town, and 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.480 so we're doing it now, and she's read enough of 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.159 it so that I mean, we're not We wouldn't discuss 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.080 the plot anyway, because no, no, we're not going to 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.200 discuss the plot. But there are some questions that I 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.480 ask people about what is and they wanted to know 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.199 what is your favorite book, if you could rank your 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.840 top three books. It was one of them that came through. Yeah, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:50.399 that's hard, and I was like, oh, that's a good 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.440 question because I've got mine. I mean, it's so much 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.480 about time and place when you read something like I 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.240 love the Broke Back Mountain. It's a novella that the 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.280 movie was based on, but I think I read it 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.480 at a time in my life. That and she's a 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.719 brilliant writer. Um that would be one member of the wedding. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.160 I mean, um no, Carson Mco. The books that you wrote. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.960 I was like, I was like you right, Brokeback Mountains. 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.879 You're like, did you? I was like, wow, okay, okay, 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.280 I'm sorry we're talking. I thought we were. You know, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.560 your your books. But that's I mean, it's good to know. Okay. Yeah. 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.680 Backing up, Um, I think Something Blue the sequel or 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.440 something Borrowed. So that's my sentimental favorite. It's one of 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.639 the top three. And then I would say Meant to Be, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.119 which a lot of people are saying is most like 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:41.920 Something Barred and Something Blue, which is the one that 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.920 just came out. And then I love the One and Only, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.480 but it's the one that I would say people like 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:52.199 a lot of people like the least. The people who 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.840 love it love it, but the people who because it's 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.440