WEBVTT - The Skinny on Lyme Disease 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.760 Hello, Stuff you should know listeners, if you want to 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.120 come see s live, You've only got a couple of 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:07.560 more cities this year that still have tickets, and that 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.840 is Orlando in New Orleans. Yeah, we'll be in Orlando 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.440 on October nine at the Plaza Live, and we'll be 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.320 in New Orleans at the Civic Theater the following night 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.000 October and friends, like Chuck said, you better go get 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.120 your tickets. Go to s Y s K live dot 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.200 com for info and ticket links and everything you need 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.080 to come see us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:39.760 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.560 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.040 Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. This is Stuff 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:51.640 you Should Know. Uh, the podcast and Chuck, I have 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.280 a question for you. You know it kicks me off 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:02.960 lime disease. I'm so mad at you blaming me for 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.000 that one. She's like, you should say this, and I said, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.400 you know what, I should totally say that. Uh. Yeah. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.360 This is sort of a follow up to our July 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:16.520 two thousand ten episode Why Ticks Suck, which in which 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.800 which is sort of a legendary episode because we uh 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.440 falsely promised to send people T shirts if they made 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.399 it all the way through the episode. We were just kidding, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.199 but we still get those requests of where's my shirt? Yes, 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:34.399 that's hilarious. I forgot about that and also wants sued today. Yeah, 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.480 probably so. Um. I also want to point out and 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.039 shout out our former website how Stuffworks dot com because 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.800 a couple of the articles that we used for much 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.440 of this episode is from the old hs W website. Nice. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:50.960 They're holding it down over there, they're holding it down 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.960 and this is some good stuff. Yeah. So we're talking 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:58.920 today about lime disease in particular, not limes. No, we 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:03.040 should say it's capital l y m E disease. And 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.320 the reason it's called that is because it's named after 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.920 a town which is one of three towns where the 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:12.720 initial outbreak of lyme disease that led to this bacterial 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:18.399 infection persistent bacterial infection um was first uh described medically. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.960 But what are the facts of the show? I think, Oh, yeah, sure, 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.880 who knew it was named after a town Lime, Connecticut? 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.720 I knew? Did you know that before this? Sure? Did 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.040 we cover that? And why tick suck? I don't think so, 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.520 all right, well you're smarter than me. That No, it's 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.079 not that. I think. What what got me was I 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.480 heard about people saying like, no, lyme disease, like people 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.760 take it for granted, but it's actually some really mysterious illness. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.400 And I'm like, what are you talking about? So I 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.280 think I looked into this year's back and that's what 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.119 I found out. All right, that was all. So we're 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.760 equally smart, right exactly. I'm not smarter than you, and 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.280 what it is smarts. It's just like someone happens to 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.160 know one thing, someone else knows another. Sure, I say, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.160 they cancel out, we're all smart. There you go. I'm 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.840 glad you pulled that out because I would have been like, 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.640 what is smart? Uh? I couldn't have come up with 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:10.079 the definition so lyme disease. Um, We'll go ahead and 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.959 hit you with a couple of stats here. Uh. Lyme 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.280 disease in the United States is more than doubled since nine. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.040 That's astounding, it is, uh And it is spread too. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.400 It used to be very much localized in kind of 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:27.120 the Northeast, sort of mid Atlantic areas, some in the South, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.200 but now you can get lyme disease, and I believe 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.440 the entire lower forty eight is that correct? There there 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.680 are cases in all forty eight states. Supposedly half of 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.680 the counties in the United States now are considered at 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.160 high risk for lyme disease. And like all of this 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.880 happened just in the last like twenty or so years, Yeah, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.440 which is I mean, there's there's a lot of debate 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.360 over the CDC calls lyme disease endemic, which is a 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:00.600 disease that has become a like an ongoing art of 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.040 an area or region, and some other people are saying, guys, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.480 what what we're talking about here is an epidemic. This 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.520 is an epidemic, and you should start calling it that 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.040 because it will kind of raise the alarm to the 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.640 next level or two where it should be, because this 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.360 is a very alarming spread of disease that we're seeing 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.400 right now. Lime disease is the number one vector borne 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.160 disease in the United States. It's way more prevalent than 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.080 things like West Nile or chicken guna or anything like that, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.640 but it's still kind of treated as like up there 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.400 in the northeastern US thing, and that's just not the case. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.440 It's it's spread every in every direction except east because 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.200 it hit the Atlantic, but everywhere else where. It can 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.000 spread into the interior of the United States and up 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.400 into Canada. It's starting to Yeah, and there's also a 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.840 history continuing to this day even where lyme disease can 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:59.000 be UM, overlooked, misdiagnosed, UM, not taken as seriously by 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.800 your doctor as it should be UM, including what we'll 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:07.440 get too later on something called post treatment lime disease syndrome. Uh. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.040 And it's all very frustrating if you have been a 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.360 an individual that has had lime disease. There's a big 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.720 community out there. People they're like, why woult anyone listen 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.159 to us? Why won't our doctors take us seriously? And 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.200 what do we have to do here? Like do we 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.320 have to start dropping dead? Yeah, there's a tremendous amount 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.800 of frustration in in that community because that there's this 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:34.520 sentiment among the medical establishment that you know, take some antibiotics. Exactly, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.000 it's easy to cure lime disease. Here's some antibiotics. You 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.360 still have persistent symptoms because are probably in your head. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:41.840 We're not going to say there in your head, but 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.520 they're in your head and the people who are experiencing 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.360 these symptoms are like, no, my life has has been 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.000 derailed by these symptoms and you guys aren't doing anything 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.400 about it. It's frustrating. I know there's a lot of 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.720 people out there that are pretty pretty stoked right now 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.359 to be hearing this. Yeah, you know, we're advocating for 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.200 you guys, not patting myself on the back, although I 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.920 am literally patty like I see you chuck here. That 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.080 elbow is sticking out pretty far. So. Lime disease is 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.320 a disease. It's an infection caused by the bacterium uh 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:19.680 bore leah burg door ferry wow borg de ferry, burg 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.400 de ferry. We're gonna get you an apron and call 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.760 you the word butcher burg door fairy work, work, work, 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.520 and we'll get to why it's called that in a bit. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:30.760 But if you haven't caught on by now, it is 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.840 transmitted through tick bites, right, So, a tick, and in 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.480 particular a nymph stage of a tick, which is a 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:44.040 like young adul or juvenile tick um, will transmit this bacteria, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.359 the Borelia burg door ferry um, into a human. And 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.080 the reason we usually get it from nymph's chuck is 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:56.200 because an adult tick doesn't find humans particularly appetizing, but 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.920 a nymph tick will because they're stupid. They don't know 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:03.160 anything yet. So as they're feeding on us. After somewhere 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.960 maybe around twenty four to thirty six hours of feeding, 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.920 this infected tick that has this bacteria in the bacteria 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.200 will make its way from the mid gut to the 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.800 tick saliva, and the tick transmitted transmits it into the 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.480 human blood stream where it's just absolutely reeks havoc on 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.680 the human body. Yeah, and you said something really key 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:28.000 there hours later, really really important. They have to be 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.960 attached to you for that long, sometimes even longer to 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.440 transmit this bacterium. So if you find a tick on 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.000 you and you get it off, you don't need to 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.040 sweat lime disease. No, if you get it off in 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.400 due time, right exactly, I feel like you see it's 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.880 still crawling on you. It's unattached. You don't worry about 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.560 it at all. Um, But when it is attached, and 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.240 when when it when it has transmitted the bacteria. What 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.680 it's transmitted. This b burg door ferry is like really 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.160 amazing at its job, which is infecting you, giving you 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.240 a bacterial infection. Um, it has figured out how to 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.280 zoom through the bloodstream but then also take itself out 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.640 of the bloodstream by latching onto the cell the walls 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.520 of your blood vessels. Yeah, this was crazy about the 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.680 cellular stuff that once it's attached to a cell. They said, 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.440 it's like a slinky. It doesn't let go. It just 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.200 like basically reaches out and grabs the next cell without 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.960 letting go of the previous cell and just sort of 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:30.200 walks end over end, never unattaching itself right exactly. So Um, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.240 as it's moving along, it's never it's not going to 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.840 get kind of you know, washed away in the extracellular matrix. 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:38.559 It's stuck to the cell. If it wants to be 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.360 stuck to the cell, it can do the same thing 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.319 to the blood vessel walls to pull itself out of 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.560 the blood stream and then go attack you know, specific 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.200 parts of the body. So it's really good at hanging on. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.640 That's one thing that makes it kind of pernicious and 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.720 like another thing exactly, it's basically yeah, it's like the 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.079 bacteria version of a tick. I didn't think about that, um. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.720 And then another thing does Chuck, I think this is 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:06.280 really really recent research. It can actually change its protein 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.280 expression at a much faster rate than the normal mutation 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.600 rate for bacteria, something like fifteen times faster. Yeah. Well, 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.800 what that does is that just makes it really hard 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.360 for our human immune system to catch up to it, right, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.160 because our immune system will produce antibodies based on the 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.439 initial infection. But by the time the antibodies come around 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:31.800 the um this, the bacteria may have changed the itself 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.760 so that the antibodies won't recognize so they'll just go 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.160 right past it because it doesn't it doesn't fit the 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.760 description that the antibodies have. That's right, And you'll know 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.959 that something's bad is happening. First of all if you 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:49.120 find that tick. But if you get headaches, fever, fatigue 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.760 is a huge, huge symptom. But the real tell tale 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.800 is what's called e m It's an expanding skin rash 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:01.200 called er athema migrants and it like, uh, it's that 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.120 circular pattern. And then we did talk about this on 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.839 the Ticks episode. But it's a circular pattern with a 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.439 what looks like a bull's eye in the center of it. Yes, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.800 and you can take off your butcher's apron now because 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.800 you just that was beautiful. Put on your chef's chef's hat. 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:21.720 You're sweating over there. So, UM, that that particular rash, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.160 that bull's eye rash, that is like just an absolute 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.680 telltale sign that you have a lime boreolis bo bore 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:35.840 uh boreliosis infection. UM. That only comes around and like 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:40.360 maybe se cases. I think if every if every person 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.880 got that rash, we would not have this this problem 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.960 with lime disease because it would be caught very quickly 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.560 because you get that within usually about a week or 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.000 less of getting infected. But it doesn't come up in 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.200 all cases. And um with some of those other symptoms 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:01.880 like you said, like weakness, headaches, UM, flu symptoms like 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.120 those could be a lot of different other things, joint pain, um. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:12.679 And so the lime disease infection goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.199 in a lot of cases, are did for many, many years. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.719 It's just now that they're starting to kind of recognize 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.840 it or suspect lime when otherwise they might not have. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.000 I mean literally hundreds of things can be can have 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.800 the same symptoms as lime disease. So lime has been 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.400 around for a long time. UM, we'll talk about the 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.160 history here in a minute, as far as the nineteen 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:38.240 seventies go and official recognition, but it's been around, I believe. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:42.079 The Yale School of Public Health find the bacterium and 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:47.640 ancient North America like sixty thousand years old before the 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.640 arrival arrival of humans. Uh, they have an autopsy of 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.400 a fifty three hundred year old mummy that had lime disease. Yeah, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.960 you know Ootsy the ice Man, remember him, Remember Brutcy. Yeah. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.000 I was disappointed that they referred to him as a 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.559 fifty year old ummy. It's like, no, it's Ootsy that 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.000 I and everybody knows him, give his name, but he 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.480 had lime disease. He did. And there was a German 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:15.120 physician named Alfred buck Wald who described this that e 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.720 M skin rash that we now call lime disease about 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.280 a hundred and thirty years ago. Right, So, so lime 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.080 disease has been around a while, but we are just 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.960 now seeing a huge again, an epidemic of it um 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.440 and in a massive spread of it not just in 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.560 North America, but there's also two other kinds of ticks 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:41.320 that transmit to other kinds of lime causing bacteria in 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.800 Europe and Asia and in all three places North America, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.320 Europe and parts of Asia. Um, the incidents of lyme 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.160 disease is picking up at an alarming pace. I think 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.319 we should slow down our pace, take a break. We'll 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:28.880 come back and we'll talk about Lime, Connecticut right after this. Alright, So, Lime, Connecticut, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:33.080 something is very old hat to you branded about it 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.200 for years Lime, Old Lime. And what was the third town? 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.040 I don't remember. No, let's just call it a new Lime. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.520 It was not. They're gonna be so mad. They're high 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.679 school football team is gonna go berserk on Old Lime 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.120 this year in the es. So there were a group 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.839 of children and adults in these towns in Connecticut that 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.280 we're having all these weird symptoms, uh, swollen knees, skin rashes, headaches, 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:03.000 all this severe fatigue. And it's bad enough these days. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.840 But in the early nineteen seventies, doctors were definitely did 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.040 not have this on the radar. And we're very dismissive 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.280 of what was going on in these towns. And if 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.160 it were not for the work of Judith Minch and 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:20.280 Polly Murray to just regular moms. Although Polly Murray did 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.160 work for the World Health Organization for a while they 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.200 were advocates, they were patient advocates because their families were 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.880 getting sick and no one would listen. And they were like, 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.640 someone's got to do something. Something's going on here, and 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.800 these doctors are not being any help. And it was 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.760 a big deal. Polly Murray ended up writing a book 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.160 she made it sort of her life's work, called The 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:47.640 Widening Circle. And because of sort of the persistent sexism 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.360 and science, they were largely discounted, even though they had 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.320 a list of thirty seven individuals they researched on their 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.720 own contacted scientists. Uh, I just we just really need 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.480 to shout them out. Poly Murray died just about a 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.480 month ago at the age that right. Yeah, she was 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.680 a persistent cuss as they call him up in the 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:13.680 Yankee States. So um, On the one hand, yes, from 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.080 the everything I've read and all the impressions I have, 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.520 they were very much dismissed and it was very much sexist, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.920 and also I think because they weren't doctors. But on 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.200 the on the other hand, the doctors who were being 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.720 presented with these cases were like, I have no idea 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.120 what this is, so let's just pretend it's not real. 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.239 But Luckily those two women in the groups that they established, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.760 they went on and they contacted Yale Medical School, they 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.200 contacted the state, and they really kind of put this 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.200 on the map. But they said, there is a mysterious 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.040 epidemic that's going on where you have a lot of 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.080 kids who suddenly have juvenile arthritis out of nowhere. What 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.760 are you guys gonna do about it? And because of 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:56.440 their agitation, this mystery made its way to the desk 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.920 or I guess, the microscope of a guy named Willie 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.560 um Burgdorfer, and he was at the time the world's 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.040 foremost authority on what's called Rocky Mountain spotted fever, which 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.640 is another tickborn bacterial infection. Remember that when I was 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.360 a kid, that was a big news item. It was 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.400 he was working out in Colorado, and Colorado was ground 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.600 zero for Rocky Mountain spotted fever for a while. UM, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.320 which is, yeah, you do not want to have that. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.800 It's a really bad bacterial infection. But by this time 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.080 they had done thanks to the legwork UM done by 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:35.640 the moms and the patient advocate groups in Lime, Connecticut, UM, 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.920 it had been pretty well established that the common thread 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.480 between all these people besides the where they lived. And 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.640 by the way, it was um Chuck Lime old Liman, 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:49.720 East had him, sorry, East had him Um. Aside from 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.320 the fact that they all lived in the same region, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.720 was that all of them were almost all of them 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.440 were called being bitten by a tick, and a lot 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.520 of them had a mysterious rash right before the symptoms presented. 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:05.120 So it came to this guy, Willie um Bergdorfer's microscope 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.960 because they had said, there's something in the ticks here 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.040 that is creating this disease that we haven't encountered before. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:17.040 That's right, and he had already discovered this bacterium h 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:19.720 called it. How do you how do you pronounce that 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.320 spirit chet, spire key sparke. But the spiro keet is 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.480 a type of bacteria and that's what give me the apron. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.439 They all right, spiral chet and you just made me 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.720 think of the older brother Chet and weird science. Now 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:41.160 go make yourself one. But wad Man, that guy had 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:45.280 some good quotes. Yeah, r I P What what Bill 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.560 Paxton when, oh he died a couple of years ago. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.720 Very sad? Are you sure you thinking of Bill Pullman? No, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.320 Bill Paxston died. It was so sad because I had 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.400 just listened to his Mark Marin interview and he was like, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.439 after that episode, I wanted nothing more than to be 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.199 Bill Paxton's friend and neighbor. And he just sounded like 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.879 the best guy and best family man. And he passed 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.080 away way too early. Yeah, really, I did not know 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.240 about that. I saw a Frailty not too many weeks ago. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.840 It's still pretty good. Was it the first viewing er? No? No, no, 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.040 I've seen it before, but yeah, great movie. Yeah. But 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.040 he wrote and I believe directed and starred in it. Yeah, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.000 it was so good and I love a good Powers 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.080 Booth cast and call for sure it was. It was 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:34.200 unusual and surprising, but it wasn't perfect. Very good underrated film. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.040 Where are we? Oh? Yeah, we were talking about Rocky 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.280 mont and spotted fever. Willie Berg door for identifying the 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:48.679 spiral keet um that was causing right, spiral check dumb dumb? No, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.520 remember we established were all smart. He Yeah, so he 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:59.600 discovered this, uh, this Paara keet and he was honored, uh, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.000 this discovery and naming that thing after himself. That's why 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.760 has that interesting name. I get the impression he didn't 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:12.439 name it after himself. They named it after him. Go on, okay, 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.840 but there's a big difference between him saying this thing 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.600 is called the burg door fury bacteria and somebody saying 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.520 we're going to name this after you. I totally agree. Okay, 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:27.440 So burg door fury or burg doorfur. He figures out 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.040 what is the basis of lyme disease, which is great. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.600 That's an enormous breakthrough. It establishes that yes, it is 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.760 its own thing, it's its own disease. And because it 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.640 was a bacteria, it's a spira key, which again it's 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.000 a kind of a snakelike shaped bacteria specific kind that 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.040 walks like a slinky um. Because it was a bacterial infection, 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.240 the medical establishment said, oh, we got this. Here, take 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.760 some antibiotics and over you know, the course of several years, 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.040 starting in I think the nineties, is when they really 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.480 started to say, okay, ay, we can cure lyme disease, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.720 especially if we catch it early on um by a 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.320 two to four week round of antibiotics. Here you go, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.520 and they said case closed, were the medical establishment. Let's 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.600 go have a party for ourselves. Yeah, and here's the thing, 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.760 like many times, that can take care of the problem. 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.200 So it's not like they were just lazy and not 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.000 doing their work. But I think they closed the book 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:27.560 a little too soon, and a lot of people do 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.560 because that that oral that round of oral antibiotics. Um, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.520 if you catch it early, it can really work. But 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.120 and I think they say, what like nine times out 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.520 of ten, if you catch it early, then that will 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.040 that will work right there. So they're so persistent with 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.280 that assertion that if you find a tick on yourself 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.159 and you live in an area where lyme disease is 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.040 known to thrive, um, if you can't say how long 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.119 that tick's been on you, they're probably just going to 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:01.680 give you a round of antibiotics and lactically. Yeah, and 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:03.879 and and again, like you said, in a lot of cases, 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.120 and I believe, from what I've read, the vast majority 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.840 of cases in early stage lime disease, that round of 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.960 antibiotics should work. Yeah. And they say that if you 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.439 and this is from the American Lime dias Is Foundation, 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:22.280 uh quote, if you live in in endemic area, have 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.320 symptoms consistent with early lyme disease, and suspect recent exposure 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.280 to a tick, present your suspicion to your doctor. So 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.679 that he or she may make a more informed diagnosis. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.400 So show up to your doctor and say, yeah, madam sir, 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.160 I would love to present my suspicions to you. Please 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.480 sit down. Well, they're saying sort of, still, you still 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.960 sort of need to be your own advocate because it 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.760 is so hard to diagnose still, because if you're going 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.760 on symptoms alone, like we said, there are hundreds of 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.000 things that share those symptoms and lime disease may not 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.400 be the first thing they think of. That's a huge 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.000 problem with lime disease. Another huge problem is that the 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.720 test we use to test for line disease doesn't actually 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.840 test for the b burg door free um bacteria. It 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:08.959 tests for the antibodies that should be present in your 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.680 blood stream if you have a bacterial infection, not even 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.360 specific to that one, but a bacterial infection. The problem 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.359 is it takes days, if not maybe a week or 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.720 two before your body mounts an effective immune response against 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.000 this infection. So if you find a tick and they 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.280 give you a test, say within the first couple of days, 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.320 it's gonna come back negative, even though you very much 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.280 have a burg door free um infection, it's gonna come 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.960 back negative because it's the antibodies haven't been created yet. 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:41.919 The other part of the problem is even if you 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.560 take a blood test that tests directly for the burg 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.840 Door free bacterium, it moves out of the blood stream 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.520 really easily and within several days. So there's a very 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.000 brief window of time where you can directly test for 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.399 the burg Door free um bacteria and find it in 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.040 a simple a blood test. Yeah, you can also get 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.919 false positives. Uh. And they're advocating now for two tiered 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.920 testing for confirmation of the diagnosis. So if you get 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.399 that first positive test, uh, sometimes now you'll get a 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:17.199 different test, a Western blot test that's gonna really get 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.040 more specific to that antibody, not just the general antibodies. Right. 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.400 So part of the other problem is the a lot 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.760 what the reason a lot of patient activists and patient 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.560 advocate groups say no, doctors, you're wrong, like this is 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.879 not good enough, is that there's a sneaking suspicion among 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:39.280 people who have what's called chronic lime or post treatment 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.800 lime disease syndrome, is that the round of antibiotics, the 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.920 two to four week round of antibiotics that seemingly cured 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:52.399