WEBVTT - Lots to Say: First Half- NY Times Author Ken Belson

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<v Speaker 1>Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is

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<v Speaker 1>a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>We Got Lots just say, we got lots to say?

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<v Speaker 3>What is better here?

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<v Speaker 4>And we hope you say because we got lost.

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<v Speaker 2>Just said, yeah, we got lots just say. Here's Bobby that.

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<v Speaker 5>Hey, welcome to another episode of Lots to Say. Hey,

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<v Speaker 5>what a family picture of you guys at USC. How

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<v Speaker 5>cool is that is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Because it was your.

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<v Speaker 5>Alma water, your wife's alma water, and you were working,

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<v Speaker 5>so he took ahole family.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well they went.

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<v Speaker 3>We went out there for Thanksgiving break family where it

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<v Speaker 3>was out there. And then obviously my wife is alumnus

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<v Speaker 3>as well, and so we brought all the kids and

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<v Speaker 3>my extended family, my brothers, my sister, all my nieces

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<v Speaker 3>and nephews, they all came as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So I brought the kids down.

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<v Speaker 3>And the funny part was we were doing the pregame

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<v Speaker 3>show and normally what we do is we look for

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<v Speaker 3>a big alumni to come bang the drum. It's like

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<v Speaker 3>the last segment before we go and push it to

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<v Speaker 3>the actual game. And we couldn't find anybody out on

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<v Speaker 3>the field, like no heavy hitters, so then the field

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<v Speaker 3>producer Wilkie comes up and goes, cas, we're just gonna

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<v Speaker 3>We're gonna use your family.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, was that idea? Yeah, So they

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<v Speaker 1>were on NBC.

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<v Speaker 3>And the funniest part was my oldest son, who's only

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<v Speaker 3>twelve years old. He's sitting there and he's got a

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<v Speaker 3>stoic personality and they go to bang the drum and

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<v Speaker 3>You're like, all my other kids are smiling stuff, and

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<v Speaker 3>he's stone cold, and the He's just stone cold, no

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<v Speaker 3>facial expression. And Wilkie's like, I think your oldest son

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<v Speaker 3>was upset. I was like, no, that's just him, dude.

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<v Speaker 3>He's he's gonna be here all the time. But it

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<v Speaker 3>was it was awesome experience for the kids. And to

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<v Speaker 3>have them there on the sideline and and be back

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<v Speaker 3>at the my alma mater for the last game of

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<v Speaker 3>the year was a good way to wrap it up.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a great picture. It was a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm not comic guy, I'm not heart guy.

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<v Speaker 5>I wish I liked pictures on Instagram, because in my heart,

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<v Speaker 5>I do like a lot of pictures. I wish I

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<v Speaker 5>just got credit for liking pictures instead of liking them

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<v Speaker 5>with my thumb. Can I just scroll and I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 5>that's good, that's good. But I actually was so compelled

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<v Speaker 5>to write great picture on that.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you write it? Yeah? Oh thank you. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even read it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't read my comments. Okay, I'm not liking

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<v Speaker 3>there comments probably two none. Look, I just don't click

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<v Speaker 3>on the picture to read through the comments. It's a

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<v Speaker 3>great picture. Oh well, I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It was fun. It was fun. It was good

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<v Speaker 1>to see the family.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was a crazy week because on Thanksgiving I

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<v Speaker 3>had to fly back to the East Coast because I

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<v Speaker 3>was in studio. Friday, got on the plane from JFK

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<v Speaker 3>at six o'clock in the morning to fly back out

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<v Speaker 3>to the West Coast for the USC UCLA game. Then

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<v Speaker 3>I got on a flight Sunday morning at six point

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<v Speaker 3>thirty to fly back to Nashville. A lot of travel.

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<v Speaker 3>So you went California, New York, New York, California, and

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<v Speaker 3>then right back to Nashville.

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<v Speaker 1>That's long. Yeah. Did they at least put you in

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<v Speaker 1>a lay down seat? Did you have those ideas?

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<v Speaker 6>And I was so thankful for that because that's basically

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<v Speaker 6>a flight to Europe.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a game changer. I mean it was a game changer.

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<v Speaker 3>You could actually lay down and like nap a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't sleep while on planes. Can you pass down

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<v Speaker 3>on planes if I take the right pills? Yeah, Well

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<v Speaker 3>I need some of those pills then because I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>have them.

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<v Speaker 5>Well I don't take them anymore. I had some issues.

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<v Speaker 5>I think I've told you this before. I got like

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<v Speaker 5>jumped at work, got pistol whipped, another event, and had

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<v Speaker 5>my house broken into.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was struggling a little bit with sleep, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I tried that would do it to you?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh those are three hardcore?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it was tough, and so I tried a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of different things because I don't like to take I

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<v Speaker 5>don't want to say medicine. I don't like to take

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<v Speaker 5>medication because I have fear of addiction because all my

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<v Speaker 5>family's been addicted and they're mostly all dead from it.

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<v Speaker 5>And so I wasn't sleeping at all after those instances,

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<v Speaker 5>like for months and months, and I was going to

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<v Speaker 5>my doctor who were trying all the natural remedies and

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<v Speaker 5>tai chi and anything that possibly would work, holistic, non holistic.

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<v Speaker 5>I was doing everything except taking sleeping pills. And so

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<v Speaker 5>I started taking sleeping pills because I was getting no

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<v Speaker 5>sleep and I was getting sick all the time because

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<v Speaker 5>I was getting no sleep.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally I was like, I'm taking sleeping pills.

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<v Speaker 5>A doctor was like, you got to do it, and

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<v Speaker 5>so it was our last option, and so I took them.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you ever take a sleeping pills? They're crazy? They're

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<v Speaker 1>crazy if you go to sleep, dude.

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<v Speaker 3>The trippiness behind that, and you're like in this other

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<v Speaker 3>zone and world.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like the Twilight Zone.

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<v Speaker 5>It was so wild to me because I've never had

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<v Speaker 5>a drink of alcohol, and so I don't know what

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<v Speaker 5>it's like to be drunk.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to be drunk a lot. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to do drugs.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, if you ever want to talk about it, I've

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<v Speaker 3>been there before, my reference and reference, So where do

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<v Speaker 3>you want to go right now?

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<v Speaker 5>I would take these pills and then I would be like,

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<v Speaker 5>you know what, I don't need to go to sleep

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<v Speaker 5>quite yet.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to do some more work. That's the worst

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<v Speaker 1>thing you could possibly do.

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<v Speaker 5>And there I would black out and I would wake

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<v Speaker 5>up and see that I had facetimed people.

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<v Speaker 1>And don't remember it isn't that wild. Once I drove, No,

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<v Speaker 1>you did not.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't remember it, but I drove, and I drove

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<v Speaker 5>off with the gas pump in my car.

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<v Speaker 1>You're like Wolf of Wall Street. You know that scenery

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<v Speaker 1>is going.

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<v Speaker 3>I was like, dude, I got home safely, and then

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<v Speaker 3>the next morning they do the recap and it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>full on not not a good situation.

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<v Speaker 5>It was so unsafe for me, and so I was like,

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<v Speaker 5>I gotta stop taking them.

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<v Speaker 1>But I would take them on long flights.

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<v Speaker 5>I'd never been anywhere like overseas or even on a

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<v Speaker 5>vacation until I got older. So I started to go

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<v Speaker 5>places by myself and I would get the lay down seat.

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<v Speaker 5>I started to make money and I was single, so

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<v Speaker 5>I was like, I'm buying the freaking lay down seat.

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<v Speaker 5>You're gonna this is all coming to a point about

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<v Speaker 5>the lay down seats. And so I went to Ireland

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<v Speaker 5>by myself, went to Hawaii by myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I want by yourself? Yeah, And mostly because I would go.

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<v Speaker 5>I went to Ireland to finish my second book because

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<v Speaker 5>it was the closest far away place that would get

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<v Speaker 5>me off the time zone. So I wouldn't get into

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<v Speaker 5>my cycle of working because even though I'm like, I'm

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<v Speaker 5>gonna check out for a few days from like the

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<v Speaker 5>radio show on a podcast, it was still three o'clock.

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<v Speaker 5>Here at three o'clock, everybody around me and they were

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<v Speaker 5>still reaching out to get stuff done.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 5>If I go to Ireland seven hours eight hours ahead,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm working and people are like six in the morning,

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<v Speaker 5>but it's three pm.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just the cycle.

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<v Speaker 5>So I went to Ireland, same thing with Hawaii, and

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<v Speaker 5>I just thought I'm there working. And I took a

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<v Speaker 5>sleeping pill on the flight back, and I don't remember

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<v Speaker 5>a lot of the flight, and it scared me because

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<v Speaker 5>I thought, what did I say?

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<v Speaker 1>Who today? This is the moment? And I thought what if?

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<v Speaker 5>Because I could have easily been one of those dudes

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<v Speaker 5>that gets arrested for like laying in the aisle for

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<v Speaker 5>something and not knowing I.

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<v Speaker 1>Was so out of control. Yeah, I wouldn't have known it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was so scary to me. It wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>gas pump in the car. It wasn't it was the

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<v Speaker 1>judge would have understood. I don't think he would have.

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<v Speaker 5>You've taken a sleeping pill before, judge, So that's why

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<v Speaker 5>I stopped taking them. But if I take the right pills,

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<v Speaker 5>you're out. I can sleep like crazy. One of the

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<v Speaker 5>funniest stories about traveling internationally. It's not my story, and

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<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna paraphrase it a bit only because and I'm

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<v Speaker 5>gonna name drop. But I like name dropping because I

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<v Speaker 5>think it's more fun for listeners. Yeah, so people, oh

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<v Speaker 5>name drop?

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 5>No, When I listen to somebody talking about stuff, I

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<v Speaker 5>want to hear name drops because it's it's interesting. I

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<v Speaker 5>was at dinner with Lionel Richie once and it was

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<v Speaker 5>me and Lionel and Luke and this is we were

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<v Speaker 5>in Syney.

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<v Speaker 1>Luke Bryan, I don't know why did you just said? Luke,

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<v Speaker 1>said Lionel Richie. Of course, we're doing American Idols. Okay.

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<v Speaker 5>We were in Savannah, Georgia before we started to shoot

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<v Speaker 5>the on location in city parts of the show where

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<v Speaker 5>you go in the auditions.

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<v Speaker 1>What happened? Oh yeah, I love those auditions.

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<v Speaker 5>And so it was the night before and we're having

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<v Speaker 5>dinner and Lionel Richie has been so famous for so

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<v Speaker 5>long he's forgotten what it's like to be normal, for sure,

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<v Speaker 5>because he's been famous for forty fifty years, like internationally

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<v Speaker 5>multi millionaire, famous.

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<v Speaker 6>And he has never taken a step backwards. Yeah, we's

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<v Speaker 6>been at the top of his game. And I say again,

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<v Speaker 6>he is the greatest. The only negative thing I would

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<v Speaker 6>ever say about Lionel Richie, because he was the absolute nicest, sweetest,

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<v Speaker 6>most humble, giving generous guy ever, is that he was

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<v Speaker 6>a little late.

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<v Speaker 1>He's kind of a little late. Hey, it's it's you're

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<v Speaker 1>on his time, bab Listen. It was kind of on

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<v Speaker 1>his time.

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<v Speaker 3>You want this superstar, it's when I want to show

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<v Speaker 3>up after my nap.

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<v Speaker 1>And of all the things, that's the only thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Because he was the greatest guy, and we would sit

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<v Speaker 5>at dinner and he would tell great stories. We tell

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<v Speaker 5>stories about Rita Franklin, like voicemails from her before she died,

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<v Speaker 5>and he kept on his phone. He's just generous, right

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<v Speaker 5>generous with the stories. And he was talking about he

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<v Speaker 5>was like, we're flying to Europe and we couldn't get

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<v Speaker 5>a jet, a private jet to take us.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really tough. So we flew commercial first class.

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<v Speaker 3>And he called that rat class. He didn't but I've

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<v Speaker 3>never actually heard that. That's funny. Rat class so he

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<v Speaker 3>called that rat class. You haven't heard that before, Well

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<v Speaker 3>he must not, you know, fly commercial. I mean I've

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<v Speaker 3>never had I got five kids. I mean, I have

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<v Speaker 3>to sit in the back of playing with seven.

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<v Speaker 5>Seats west if we're going to California, can no chance.

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<v Speaker 5>If we're going to California, that is all I will

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<v Speaker 5>fly because on the plane's not working.

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<v Speaker 1>It'scause I'm not paying that bill. Yeah, exactly, that bill's brutal,

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<v Speaker 1>the bill.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm not plying private to California from here. I'll use

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<v Speaker 5>a company plane at times. Yeah, but I'm not. No,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm still southwest at the time. Okay, southwest thirty percent,

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<v Speaker 5>now southwest twenty percent Southwest.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's be honest, you're just throughout like a larger percentage,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe ten percent. You're they have Delta, they have Delta

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<v Speaker 3>flights that go out there first class.

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<v Speaker 1>You're for sure taking that if it's there. But I'm

0:09:45.216 --> 0:09:47.656
<v Speaker 1>telling you Vegas they don't. They don't have. There's not

0:09:47.816 --> 0:09:49.536
<v Speaker 1>a lot. Yeah, if I had a natural so it's.

0:09:49.376 --> 0:09:52.496
<v Speaker 5>Southwest of Vegas every time, and to if I'm flying

0:09:52.535 --> 0:09:54.976
<v Speaker 5>into California, I'm gonna fly into I think it uhould

0:09:54.976 --> 0:09:58.415
<v Speaker 5>be called Bob hope, but yeah, it's down in Orange County. Yeah,

0:09:59.216 --> 0:10:02.856
<v Speaker 5>or the other one. So the one Southwest flies into

0:10:02.935 --> 0:10:07.256
<v Speaker 5>that that's non John John Wayne that one. Yeah, yeah,

0:10:07.336 --> 0:10:09.736
<v Speaker 5>I like that with much smaller the best Southwest.

0:10:09.896 --> 0:10:12.096
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there is hope, is there? Maybe not anymore?

0:10:12.535 --> 0:10:17.096
<v Speaker 1>John Burbank's it. That's yeah, Burbank's tiny, tiny Burbanks what

0:10:17.096 --> 0:10:17.736
<v Speaker 1>it is because.

0:10:17.496 --> 0:10:19.816
<v Speaker 5>They fly Southwest flies in it's a plus anyway, I

0:10:19.816 --> 0:10:23.776
<v Speaker 5>know how it was so uh. Line was like I

0:10:23.816 --> 0:10:27.256
<v Speaker 5>flew first class and I woke up and I just

0:10:27.256 --> 0:10:30.856
<v Speaker 5>wanted like a sorbet and he goes, I woke up

0:10:30.856 --> 0:10:32.415
<v Speaker 5>in the middle of the night and I was like,

0:10:32.576 --> 0:10:36.535
<v Speaker 5>excuse me, can I get like a sorbet with a

0:10:36.535 --> 0:10:40.096
<v Speaker 5>a little bit of almond milk and some caramel nuggets?

0:10:40.136 --> 0:10:43.896
<v Speaker 5>And she's like, Sarah'm sorry this first class, but we can't.

0:10:44.136 --> 0:10:46.496
<v Speaker 5>We can't make whatever you want.

0:10:46.616 --> 0:10:48.095
<v Speaker 1>We might be able to get your warm cookie. And

0:10:48.175 --> 0:10:50.856
<v Speaker 1>he was like, I was in shock. They couldn't make

0:10:50.896 --> 0:10:52.496
<v Speaker 1>a sorbet with nuggets.

0:10:52.535 --> 0:10:55.055
<v Speaker 5>And I thought it was so funny because even he

0:10:55.136 --> 0:10:57.616
<v Speaker 5>knew he was a bit out of touch, but but

0:10:57.655 --> 0:10:59.096
<v Speaker 5>that's he was, like I was in a bed.

0:10:59.216 --> 0:11:00.856
<v Speaker 1>He also people kept walking by when he was in

0:11:00.856 --> 0:11:02.256
<v Speaker 1>his bed, taking pictures of him. I thought that.

0:11:02.576 --> 0:11:05.736
<v Speaker 3>That would be uh yeah, you can't do that. Come on,

0:11:05.776 --> 0:11:07.896
<v Speaker 3>you should know better if somebody's sleeping.

0:11:08.336 --> 0:11:09.055
<v Speaker 1>I agree.

0:11:09.256 --> 0:11:11.376
<v Speaker 5>Who's the coolest person you've ever seen? In first class?

0:11:12.976 --> 0:11:18.655
<v Speaker 5>Coolest person I've ever seen? You're a Google away, Your

0:11:18.696 --> 0:11:19.736
<v Speaker 5>money's a Google away.

0:11:20.175 --> 0:11:22.776
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know. Don't act like rat classes. You're

0:11:22.856 --> 0:11:27.256
<v Speaker 1>common No, But I don't know. It's funny how he's

0:11:27.256 --> 0:11:30.496
<v Speaker 1>inserting himself as a common man here, Kevin. I think, Oh.

0:11:30.376 --> 0:11:32.256
<v Speaker 3>My wife said. Somebody was in front of me the

0:11:32.295 --> 0:11:35.456
<v Speaker 3>other day. My wife said, hold on, this is a

0:11:35.456 --> 0:11:38.856
<v Speaker 3>funny story. She texts me, I'll tell you the name

0:11:38.935 --> 0:11:42.695
<v Speaker 3>right now. Hold on, everybody. So this is the part

0:11:42.696 --> 0:11:45.096
<v Speaker 3>of the story. So I didn't know that I was

0:11:45.096 --> 0:11:47.336
<v Speaker 3>doing the us UCLA game until that week. I had

0:11:47.336 --> 0:11:49.856
<v Speaker 3>already booked the flights for my family back home on Sunday,

0:11:50.336 --> 0:11:53.016
<v Speaker 3>so the company booked me. I said, can you get

0:11:53.055 --> 0:11:55.655
<v Speaker 3>me on that same flight? Well, they booked me first class.

0:11:55.976 --> 0:11:58.856
<v Speaker 3>The rest of my family was in business class behind me.

0:11:59.415 --> 0:12:02.176
<v Speaker 3>So I get on the plane. I get on the

0:12:02.216 --> 0:12:05.215
<v Speaker 3>plane and I'm sitting there and then my family starts

0:12:05.616 --> 0:12:08.176
<v Speaker 3>on and everybody's sitting down in like the first class

0:12:08.175 --> 0:12:10.616
<v Speaker 3>at this point, and I'm sitting here and I feel terrible,

0:12:10.976 --> 0:12:15.215
<v Speaker 3>and they're like, okay, dad, and I'm literally turning these people.

0:12:15.376 --> 0:12:17.456
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I am not the worst father you've

0:12:17.496 --> 0:12:19.935
<v Speaker 3>ever seen. To be honest with you, I didn't know

0:12:19.976 --> 0:12:21.816
<v Speaker 3>I was even going to be on this flight. My

0:12:21.896 --> 0:12:24.896
<v Speaker 3>company booked me. I would rather sit with my family,

0:12:24.935 --> 0:12:27.575
<v Speaker 3>and they're like, okay, guy, Like, my wife goes back

0:12:27.856 --> 0:12:31.256
<v Speaker 3>my five kids. So then my wife texts me and says,

0:12:31.976 --> 0:12:34.616
<v Speaker 3>let's see who was sitting in front of me. It

0:12:34.736 --> 0:12:37.256
<v Speaker 3>might take me a second. Guys, I know you're a

0:12:37.256 --> 0:12:40.856
<v Speaker 3>big question as you like Kevin. Can you the members vodcast?

0:12:41.175 --> 0:12:44.256
<v Speaker 1>Andre three thousand? Yes? Andre? What three thousand? Okay?

0:12:46.415 --> 0:12:47.016
<v Speaker 2>Oh what is it?

0:12:47.096 --> 0:12:47.776
<v Speaker 1>Narls Barkley.

0:12:47.935 --> 0:12:51.055
<v Speaker 5>No, No, that's see low Green?

0:12:51.136 --> 0:12:53.055
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no, se low Green is one

0:12:53.055 --> 0:12:54.695
<v Speaker 1>of Narls Barklay. Okay.

0:12:54.896 --> 0:12:59.096
<v Speaker 5>So you're so you picked another group, but not no

0:12:59.256 --> 0:13:02.776
<v Speaker 5>but a member. No, So you got Andre three thousand, Andre,

0:13:03.256 --> 0:13:04.256
<v Speaker 5>can you name the other one?

0:13:07.616 --> 0:13:12.976
<v Speaker 1>No? Can you name me the one? For some reason,

0:13:13.016 --> 0:13:16.976
<v Speaker 1>I want to go like it. No, I'm not even

0:13:17.016 --> 0:13:18.456
<v Speaker 1>gonna a big boy.

0:13:18.856 --> 0:13:20.935
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, that's exactly what I was gonna say,

0:13:20.935 --> 0:13:22.416
<v Speaker 3>but I didn't want to say it's so wrong. I

0:13:22.456 --> 0:13:25.136
<v Speaker 3>swear to you that I said, big boy, and I

0:13:25.175 --> 0:13:26.936
<v Speaker 3>was like, but I really don't know if.

0:13:26.856 --> 0:13:27.376
<v Speaker 1>This is right.

0:13:28.496 --> 0:13:30.936
<v Speaker 3>Finish away, finish your story. My wife text me and says,

0:13:30.935 --> 0:13:32.175
<v Speaker 3>you know, Leanne Rymes is sitting.

0:13:32.376 --> 0:13:35.496
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's cool. So there you go, Leanne Rhymes. There's

0:13:35.856 --> 0:13:38.215
<v Speaker 1>one that I can remember that your wife could remember.

0:13:38.216 --> 0:13:40.776
<v Speaker 1>I tried, yeah, your wife texted, I saw.

0:13:40.696 --> 0:13:42.016
<v Speaker 3>A black hat in front of me and I wasn't

0:13:42.016 --> 0:13:44.416
<v Speaker 3>gonna tap people on. Are any of you guys relevant

0:13:44.415 --> 0:13:45.296
<v Speaker 3>and verre important?

0:13:45.496 --> 0:13:46.776
<v Speaker 1>Anybody you're famous?

0:13:47.175 --> 0:13:48.496
<v Speaker 2>Talking about you guys when we.

0:13:48.415 --> 0:13:53.456
<v Speaker 7>Are on our podcast on Tuesday, I was on a flight,

0:13:55.136 --> 0:13:57.776
<v Speaker 7>my wife and I were going to Europe, and one

0:13:57.816 --> 0:14:00.016
<v Speaker 7>hundred three thousand that's cool.

0:14:00.016 --> 0:14:03.455
<v Speaker 5>Was sitting like a to the right of us because

0:14:03.456 --> 0:14:07.055
<v Speaker 5>those seats it's like to to two and so he

0:14:07.175 --> 0:14:08.655
<v Speaker 5>was over to the right of us.

0:14:09.175 --> 0:14:11.456
<v Speaker 1>And you can absolutely tell it's him.

0:14:11.496 --> 0:14:13.896
<v Speaker 5>The only difference is he's a little grayer and he

0:14:13.935 --> 0:14:15.816
<v Speaker 5>walks around because he doesn't really rap anymore. He just

0:14:15.816 --> 0:14:18.136
<v Speaker 5>plays the flute. He puts out flut out. Really, he's

0:14:18.175 --> 0:14:18.815
<v Speaker 5>a flout.

0:14:18.535 --> 0:14:23.776
<v Speaker 3>Tist wow, and so say it again a flout test.

0:14:23.896 --> 0:14:24.736
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:14:24.816 --> 0:14:27.776
<v Speaker 5>I didn't want to bother him, but you had to

0:14:27.776 --> 0:14:30.576
<v Speaker 5>get a picture of him. I didn't know the only

0:14:30.696 --> 0:14:32.976
<v Speaker 5>thing that I did. I have two stories like this,

0:14:33.096 --> 0:14:34.536
<v Speaker 5>Is there anybody that you'd go up to?

0:14:34.856 --> 0:14:35.056
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:14:35.096 --> 0:14:35.856
<v Speaker 1>There are people, yes.

0:14:36.096 --> 0:14:36.616
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:14:36.696 --> 0:14:38.095
<v Speaker 5>It just depends a lot of it too, is like

0:14:38.136 --> 0:14:40.536
<v Speaker 5>their body language are dynamic? Are they by themselves? Are

0:14:40.536 --> 0:14:43.976
<v Speaker 5>they sleepy? Like I'm paying attention because on a much, much,

0:14:44.056 --> 0:14:46.296
<v Speaker 5>much smaller level, I'm grateful when people do that to me.

0:14:46.456 --> 0:14:46.696
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:14:47.056 --> 0:14:49.936
<v Speaker 5>And she also wasn't with his kids. It wasn't eating.

0:14:50.016 --> 0:14:52.296
<v Speaker 5>There are certain rules that I have about going up

0:14:52.336 --> 0:14:54.936
<v Speaker 5>to people. But I see him and I told my

0:14:54.976 --> 0:14:57.136
<v Speaker 5>wife that's on twenty thousand, and my wife is twelve

0:14:57.176 --> 0:14:59.016
<v Speaker 5>years younger than I am. And she's like, is he

0:14:59.056 --> 0:15:02.536
<v Speaker 5>a wrestler? Because we talked the giant. We told me

0:15:02.576 --> 0:15:05.096
<v Speaker 5>Andrew the giant I was teaching. And I was like, no, no, no,

0:15:05.096 --> 0:15:06.776
<v Speaker 5>He's part of outcast.

0:15:06.336 --> 0:15:08.976
<v Speaker 1>And she was like, which she still doesn't know what

0:15:08.976 --> 0:15:09.416
<v Speaker 1>out cast?

0:15:09.496 --> 0:15:12.016
<v Speaker 5>Well, there are versions of outcast, like I was a

0:15:12.016 --> 0:15:14.616
<v Speaker 5>fan of outcast, like bombs over bag Dad, like the early.

0:15:15.416 --> 0:15:16.896
<v Speaker 1>Yes and even the newer stuff.

0:15:16.936 --> 0:15:18.656
<v Speaker 5>Once it was real popular, and I was like, shake it,

0:15:18.736 --> 0:15:21.256
<v Speaker 5>shake shake, shake it, shake it like a Paula Roi.

0:15:21.496 --> 0:15:24.376
<v Speaker 1>She goes, oh, that's him. I was like, yeah, that's it.

0:15:24.896 --> 0:15:26.376
<v Speaker 1>She was like, oh cool. Then she doesn't care. She

0:15:26.456 --> 0:15:27.696
<v Speaker 1>gets no crap about celebrities.

0:15:28.216 --> 0:15:33.496
<v Speaker 5>And so we're getting off into the airport and occasionally

0:15:33.496 --> 0:15:35.215
<v Speaker 5>someone will go up and be like, hey, can I

0:15:35.256 --> 0:15:37.576
<v Speaker 5>get a picture. I don't think he was annoyed, but

0:15:37.616 --> 0:15:40.416
<v Speaker 5>he definitely wasn't over the top about just like.

0:15:40.616 --> 0:15:42.936
<v Speaker 1>Hey, love it, let's give me, give me more.

0:15:43.056 --> 0:15:43.256
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:15:43.296 --> 0:15:43.455
<v Speaker 3>I know.

0:15:43.496 --> 0:15:45.896
<v Speaker 5>Also, it's like we've been flying for twelve hours. He's tired,

0:15:46.576 --> 0:15:49.376
<v Speaker 5>and so he was standing by the baggage gate. His

0:15:49.376 --> 0:15:52.416
<v Speaker 5>body language was kind of open to me, and I say, hey,

0:15:53.256 --> 0:15:55.136
<v Speaker 5>big fan, be listening to music for like twenty years.

0:15:55.296 --> 0:15:57.736
<v Speaker 1>He said thanks, man walked on. I got my interaction

0:15:58.136 --> 0:16:00.136
<v Speaker 1>that I was it. He didn't like bust out.

0:16:00.176 --> 0:16:02.816
<v Speaker 3>Hey dude in the Country Hall of Fame for Youngest

0:16:02.936 --> 0:16:05.016
<v Speaker 3>radio radio Hosts of all time.

0:16:04.856 --> 0:16:07.616
<v Speaker 1>And like, nobody cares. I sent back my Dancing with

0:16:07.656 --> 0:16:10.336
<v Speaker 1>the Stars thing, but none of that. Nobody cares, Like

0:16:10.376 --> 0:16:12.136
<v Speaker 1>there's common thread there, there's not.

0:16:12.216 --> 0:16:15.616
<v Speaker 5>Because he I believe they might be I did have

0:16:15.616 --> 0:16:18.256
<v Speaker 5>a hip hop deal for a Captain Caucasian.

0:16:18.576 --> 0:16:20.136
<v Speaker 1>What if you'd have been like, I'm the biggest Captain

0:16:20.136 --> 0:16:21.016
<v Speaker 1>Caucasian fan ever.

0:16:21.136 --> 0:16:23.536
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, how coolose it you want to collab now that

0:16:23.656 --> 0:16:25.616
<v Speaker 3>we got a little bit older, He'll play flute on

0:16:25.616 --> 0:16:26.536
<v Speaker 3>my next track.

0:16:27.496 --> 0:16:30.096
<v Speaker 5>The only other one was I was in a restaurant

0:16:30.136 --> 0:16:34.056
<v Speaker 5>in California and was having dinner with a friend and

0:16:34.096 --> 0:16:35.496
<v Speaker 5>I was walking to the bathroom and I look over

0:16:35.496 --> 0:16:37.016
<v Speaker 5>and like, oh, I know that person sitting at the table.

0:16:37.776 --> 0:16:39.336
<v Speaker 5>They did not have food in front of them yet.

0:16:39.776 --> 0:16:42.456
<v Speaker 5>And I was like, on the way back, I'm going

0:16:42.496 --> 0:16:44.336
<v Speaker 5>to say something. I'll go to the bathroom wash my

0:16:44.376 --> 0:16:47.456
<v Speaker 5>hands just in case he wanted to shake hands and washed.

0:16:47.456 --> 0:16:48.576
<v Speaker 5>Man to sent down. And I walked by and it

0:16:48.616 --> 0:16:51.056
<v Speaker 5>was David Spade. I said, Hey, David Spade, super funny,

0:16:51.136 --> 0:16:51.536
<v Speaker 5>big fan.

0:16:51.576 --> 0:16:54.136
<v Speaker 1>Man. He goes, thanks, Man, kept walking right. Have my interaction.

0:16:55.176 --> 0:16:56.736
<v Speaker 5>I was talking about that because I think there are

0:16:56.736 --> 0:17:01.176
<v Speaker 5>general rules where it's if you see somebody that's famous

0:17:01.616 --> 0:17:04.336
<v Speaker 5>or known, if they're with their kids, do not approach,

0:17:04.416 --> 0:17:06.136
<v Speaker 5>if they have food in front of them, do not

0:17:06.256 --> 0:17:08.735
<v Speaker 5>approach any other time they know who they are. They

0:17:08.736 --> 0:17:11.096
<v Speaker 5>also have the right to say no, the record for sure,

0:17:11.336 --> 0:17:14.535
<v Speaker 5>but if no kids and no food, you can go

0:17:14.616 --> 0:17:16.696
<v Speaker 5>up and say, hey, I'm a fan. I've also found

0:17:16.696 --> 0:17:20.215
<v Speaker 5>the most celebrities, if they're not with their family or eating,

0:17:21.215 --> 0:17:22.975
<v Speaker 5>they like people to say they're a.

0:17:22.856 --> 0:17:25.736
<v Speaker 3>Fan, right because you're doing your job well, yeah, and

0:17:25.776 --> 0:17:26.616
<v Speaker 3>you're appreciated.

0:17:26.975 --> 0:17:28.736
<v Speaker 1>And so I was talking about that on the show

0:17:28.816 --> 0:17:30.616
<v Speaker 1>and he messaged me on Instagram and I was like, hey, man,

0:17:30.616 --> 0:17:32.295
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate you not stopping me. And I'm like,

0:17:32.296 --> 0:17:33.896
<v Speaker 1>you're walking by, you know.

0:17:33.975 --> 0:17:37.255
<v Speaker 3>The one of these memorable moments for me, I was

0:17:37.576 --> 0:17:39.056
<v Speaker 3>the year that I took over for Brady.

0:17:39.176 --> 0:17:39.975
<v Speaker 1>We got done with season.

0:17:40.016 --> 0:17:42.136
<v Speaker 3>I was back in LA where I'm from, and we

0:17:42.176 --> 0:17:44.696
<v Speaker 3>went out to this nice steak restaurant and normally.

0:17:44.416 --> 0:17:46.976
<v Speaker 1>Hey Brady, what do you mean, bro?

0:17:47.616 --> 0:17:51.736
<v Speaker 3>You just through lookout there, Tom Brady, drop a name,

0:17:51.856 --> 0:17:53.975
<v Speaker 3>But I'm saying the year, So the year I played

0:17:54.016 --> 0:17:57.376
<v Speaker 3>for the Patriots, I'm done with season, get back to LA.

0:17:57.495 --> 0:18:00.576
<v Speaker 3>We're out at a steak restaurant and normally people would

0:18:00.656 --> 0:18:02.536
<v Speaker 3>just cut like a Patriot fan every now and then,

0:18:02.576 --> 0:18:06.535
<v Speaker 3>but I'm going to the bathroom here, hey, And I

0:18:06.576 --> 0:18:10.095
<v Speaker 3>was like, I look over and it's Mark Woolburg and

0:18:10.455 --> 0:18:11.736
<v Speaker 3>he's a huge Patriots fan.

0:18:11.936 --> 0:18:12.536
<v Speaker 1>Boston guy.

0:18:12.616 --> 0:18:15.376
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Boston guy. And of all people, I never thought

0:18:15.416 --> 0:18:17.256
<v Speaker 3>I was going to see this guy. But he he

0:18:17.376 --> 0:18:20.336
<v Speaker 3>invites me over, he shakes my hand, tells me, you know,

0:18:20.455 --> 0:18:22.656
<v Speaker 3>great season this, and I'm a big Patriot fan. And

0:18:22.696 --> 0:18:25.376
<v Speaker 3>I was like, that was the coolest interaction ever. Normally

0:18:25.416 --> 0:18:27.696
<v Speaker 3>it's something like, hey, well you sign something or do that, this,

0:18:27.735 --> 0:18:30.656
<v Speaker 3>that and the other. But for me, that was like, Wow,

0:18:30.936 --> 0:18:37.495
<v Speaker 3>that's rad. This guy's a mega superstar megas superstar. Markey.

0:18:37.656 --> 0:18:40.656
<v Speaker 3>Did I jammed that back in the day. Hell yeah.

0:18:40.936 --> 0:18:43.576
<v Speaker 3>I mean so that was a cool interaction right there.

0:18:43.576 --> 0:18:45.295
<v Speaker 3>But that was a few and far between where you

0:18:45.296 --> 0:18:48.696
<v Speaker 3>get like a mega superstar fan that's a sports fan.

0:18:49.176 --> 0:18:51.015
<v Speaker 3>And that's the only reason he talked to me. Otherwise

0:18:51.056 --> 0:18:53.416
<v Speaker 3>you wouldn't even know anything about it. But it just

0:18:53.416 --> 0:18:55.215
<v Speaker 3>just so happened that I aligned with that.

0:18:55.215 --> 0:18:59.495
<v Speaker 1>That's also like Boston loving their athletes. Oh that city's wild.

0:19:00.016 --> 0:19:04.216
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like they're such fanatical, passionate sports fan.

0:19:04.296 --> 0:19:06.856
<v Speaker 1>If you're winning the pedestal, you guys like crazy.

0:19:07.136 --> 0:19:08.936
<v Speaker 3>And it was incredible to be in Boston at the

0:19:08.936 --> 0:19:11.255
<v Speaker 3>time that I was too, because the Celtics won a championship.

0:19:11.296 --> 0:19:13.696
<v Speaker 3>The Boston Red Sox won a championship. The city was

0:19:13.735 --> 0:19:14.255
<v Speaker 3>on fire.

0:19:14.455 --> 0:19:17.215
<v Speaker 1>See, I think I'd want to be the only team winning. Yeah, selfishly,

0:19:17.256 --> 0:19:19.336
<v Speaker 1>that was yeah. I think they had right. They'd won

0:19:19.376 --> 0:19:21.975
<v Speaker 1>three Super Bowls the year before I got there.

0:19:22.016 --> 0:19:24.576
<v Speaker 3>They just accomplished their third Super Bowl, so we were

0:19:25.096 --> 0:19:25.736
<v Speaker 3>in the heyday.

0:19:26.376 --> 0:19:30.056
<v Speaker 5>Ken Belson is coming up next. This guy is veteran

0:19:30.136 --> 0:19:33.015
<v Speaker 5>New York Times reporter. He's got a book called Every

0:19:33.096 --> 0:19:35.816
<v Speaker 5>Day of Sunday. It's basically Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, and

0:19:35.896 --> 0:19:37.975
<v Speaker 5>Roger Goodell and how they've made the NFL so big.

0:19:38.735 --> 0:19:41.015
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited about this interview. We will do that next.

0:19:56.536 --> 0:19:57.855
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna bring on Ken Belson.

0:19:57.896 --> 0:19:59.896
<v Speaker 5>Now we're gonna talk about every Day of Sunday and

0:19:59.936 --> 0:20:03.376
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna read the what do you call this th

0:20:04.215 --> 0:20:07.296
<v Speaker 5>Because I wrote books and it it was like the title, Hey, Ken,

0:20:07.336 --> 0:20:08.696
<v Speaker 5>what do you call the thing? I'm about to read

0:20:08.735 --> 0:20:11.656
<v Speaker 5>how Jerry Jones, Robert Craft, Roger Goodell turned the NFL

0:20:11.816 --> 0:20:13.775
<v Speaker 5>into a cultural and economic juggernaut.

0:20:13.816 --> 0:20:16.775
<v Speaker 1>What's the official titles? What is that called a subheader?

0:20:16.856 --> 0:20:19.016
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Sub subtitle or a subhead?

0:20:19.096 --> 0:20:21.576
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Anyway, the book's called every Day a Sunday,

0:20:21.776 --> 0:20:23.416
<v Speaker 5>and if you were to do the whole thing, it

0:20:23.455 --> 0:20:25.816
<v Speaker 5>would take you like an hour. But that's awesome, because

0:20:25.936 --> 0:20:28.336
<v Speaker 5>I mean these are as far as like sports culture,

0:20:28.576 --> 0:20:31.256
<v Speaker 5>you really get no bigger than these three.

0:20:31.495 --> 0:20:33.855
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask first about Roger Goodell.

0:20:33.896 --> 0:20:36.856
<v Speaker 5>I met Roger Goodell once and he had the absolute

0:20:37.176 --> 0:20:40.376
<v Speaker 5>strongest handshake of any man that I have ever shaken

0:20:40.416 --> 0:20:43.296
<v Speaker 5>hands with. Have you ever shaken Roger Goodell's hand?

0:20:44.336 --> 0:20:44.536
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:20:44.656 --> 0:20:47.215
<v Speaker 8>Not only have I done that, but he like like

0:20:47.296 --> 0:20:51.015
<v Speaker 8>did a chest pump thing that he wants that. It

0:20:51.056 --> 0:20:53.256
<v Speaker 8>felt like I was back in the high school football

0:20:54.256 --> 0:20:56.896
<v Speaker 8>locker room thing. And this is the weird thing is

0:20:56.936 --> 0:21:00.255
<v Speaker 8>it was in federal court. I was covering the Sunday

0:21:00.256 --> 0:21:03.896
<v Speaker 8>ticket trial, which is in LA in twenty twenty four,

0:21:04.176 --> 0:21:06.656
<v Speaker 8>and he the reason that I went that particular day

0:21:06.856 --> 0:21:09.936
<v Speaker 8>was that Roger was on the stand, which is very

0:21:09.975 --> 0:21:12.775
<v Speaker 8>unusual to see a commissioner in a federal trial on

0:21:12.816 --> 0:21:15.615
<v Speaker 8>the court on the in the jury, on the on

0:21:15.656 --> 0:21:18.696
<v Speaker 8>the stand. And so he had he had finished the

0:21:18.735 --> 0:21:21.816
<v Speaker 8>morning session, and he knew I was there because I

0:21:21.816 --> 0:21:23.376
<v Speaker 8>had said a lot to him at the beginning, and

0:21:23.416 --> 0:21:25.416
<v Speaker 8>when he walked out. You know, he walked through the aisle,

0:21:25.455 --> 0:21:27.656
<v Speaker 8>the middle aisle, and you know, the reporters and the

0:21:27.735 --> 0:21:29.616
<v Speaker 8>lawyers were all standing up to stretch because it was

0:21:29.656 --> 0:21:31.376
<v Speaker 8>a lunch break, and he went past me and he

0:21:31.416 --> 0:21:35.376
<v Speaker 8>like took his fist and he like pounded my chest

0:21:35.576 --> 0:21:38.096
<v Speaker 8>like hey bro, and it was it was kind of

0:21:38.096 --> 0:21:41.816
<v Speaker 8>startling strong man. But yeah, so he's a strong guy,

0:21:42.176 --> 0:21:44.056
<v Speaker 8>very big, relatively big.

0:21:44.296 --> 0:21:48.696
<v Speaker 5>You had talked about mister Goodell and kind of compared

0:21:48.776 --> 0:21:52.656
<v Speaker 5>him to like a whip, a Senate majority leader, like uh,

0:21:52.696 --> 0:21:56.136
<v Speaker 5>and I because what we know of him is the face.

0:21:57.056 --> 0:21:59.416
<v Speaker 5>We know he's making decisions, but we don't really get

0:21:59.416 --> 0:22:01.975
<v Speaker 5>to see how that sausage is made. Like what do

0:22:02.016 --> 0:22:03.295
<v Speaker 5>you think his superpower is?

0:22:03.856 --> 0:22:06.176
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, so that's that's a great operation. I'm glad you

0:22:06.256 --> 0:22:09.376
<v Speaker 8>brought it up because I think the average fan looks

0:22:09.376 --> 0:22:11.576
<v Speaker 8>at him and says, Okay, he's the guy I boo

0:22:12.256 --> 0:22:16.656
<v Speaker 8>on draft day. He's the guy responsible for my team's

0:22:16.776 --> 0:22:20.296
<v Speaker 8>favorite running back for being suspended or whatever it is

0:22:19.776 --> 0:22:22.936
<v Speaker 8>he takes. That's part of his job, which is to

0:22:23.016 --> 0:22:26.775
<v Speaker 8>police the league itself, the players, But in reality, the

0:22:26.776 --> 0:22:30.376
<v Speaker 8>people who hire him are the owners, the NFL unlike

0:22:30.455 --> 0:22:32.176
<v Speaker 8>most of the other leagues, or are compared to the

0:22:32.256 --> 0:22:36.416
<v Speaker 8>other leagues, is much more owner driven. Everything has to

0:22:36.455 --> 0:22:39.735
<v Speaker 8>go to vote twenty four minimum of twenty four. So

0:22:40.696 --> 0:22:42.736
<v Speaker 8>I mean, Roger has his own ideas and his own

0:22:42.816 --> 0:22:45.896
<v Speaker 8>vision for the league, but he doesn't necessarily drive the bus.

0:22:46.376 --> 0:22:50.136
<v Speaker 8>He's kind of really good at synthesizing what the owners

0:22:50.256 --> 0:22:52.896
<v Speaker 8>want and what their visions are. And frankly, you know,

0:22:53.136 --> 0:22:56.815
<v Speaker 8>there's some prettiest student owners on the media front. What

0:22:56.816 --> 0:23:00.496
<v Speaker 8>do they do about gambling International? I'm sure AI will

0:23:00.495 --> 0:23:03.456
<v Speaker 8>come up a year or two. So these owners are

0:23:03.455 --> 0:23:06.656
<v Speaker 8>smart from their own businesses, and Er sort of channels them.

0:23:07.256 --> 0:23:09.656
<v Speaker 8>And so that's why I compared him to a Senate whip,

0:23:09.656 --> 0:23:11.495
<v Speaker 8>because he's always looking for how do I get to

0:23:11.536 --> 0:23:15.096
<v Speaker 8>twenty four votes? And you know, on rare occasions he

0:23:15.136 --> 0:23:18.616
<v Speaker 8>puts himself out there, one being like the Tush push

0:23:18.776 --> 0:23:21.776
<v Speaker 8>a couple of a year ago, and it actually failed.

0:23:22.056 --> 0:23:24.536
<v Speaker 8>That was a rare instance where Roger was kind of

0:23:25.455 --> 0:23:27.696
<v Speaker 8>was in front on that issue. But most of the

0:23:27.735 --> 0:23:31.015
<v Speaker 8>time he's just channeling what the owners want and what

0:23:31.056 --> 0:23:33.376
<v Speaker 8>he thinks, you know, will be better for the league

0:23:33.416 --> 0:23:34.896
<v Speaker 8>and frankly, to make them more money.

0:23:34.896 --> 0:23:36.176
<v Speaker 2>I think is the bottom line.

0:23:36.896 --> 0:23:39.255
<v Speaker 3>In the book, you talk about the powerbrokers being Jerry

0:23:39.336 --> 0:23:41.975
<v Speaker 3>Jones Robert Kraft, two guys. Actually I was part of

0:23:42.016 --> 0:23:45.176
<v Speaker 3>both of their organizations and two very different personalities.

0:23:45.576 --> 0:23:48.416
<v Speaker 1>But how in this.

0:23:48.136 --> 0:23:51.056
<v Speaker 3>Market that you're talking about, in the marketplace in the NFL,

0:23:51.256 --> 0:23:53.376
<v Speaker 3>how do they compliment each other and how do they

0:23:53.416 --> 0:23:54.856
<v Speaker 3>also compete against each other?

0:23:55.455 --> 0:24:00.856
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, great question. Obviously they compete on the field. They

0:24:01.056 --> 0:24:03.416
<v Speaker 8>totally compliment each other in the ways I didn't fully

0:24:03.455 --> 0:24:07.215
<v Speaker 8>appreciate when I started doing the reporting. Jerry is like

0:24:07.336 --> 0:24:11.896
<v Speaker 8>this bubbling idea guy. He's like the mad scientist. He's

0:24:11.936 --> 0:24:16.296
<v Speaker 8>constantly looking at ways where can we promote the NFL.

0:24:17.056 --> 0:24:20.896
<v Speaker 8>He is the absolute firms believer in the power of

0:24:20.975 --> 0:24:24.176
<v Speaker 8>the shield and has from the time he took over.

0:24:24.256 --> 0:24:26.816
<v Speaker 8>It's one of the reasons he bought the Cowboys, and

0:24:26.896 --> 0:24:29.455
<v Speaker 8>so he's constantly coming up ideas. But he is not

0:24:29.735 --> 0:24:34.295
<v Speaker 8>necessarily the closer, and sometimes he can just wear people

0:24:34.336 --> 0:24:37.176
<v Speaker 8>out with his ideas. There's a great quote from Robert

0:24:37.735 --> 0:24:40.495
<v Speaker 8>about Jerry. He could charm a dog off a meat truck.

0:24:41.455 --> 0:24:44.616
<v Speaker 8>You know, he's just he works the phones. He still

0:24:44.616 --> 0:24:48.296
<v Speaker 8>has a flip phone, I think, and He's constantly just selling.

0:24:49.176 --> 0:24:51.735
<v Speaker 8>It's not about the money, It's about the deal and

0:24:51.776 --> 0:24:52.295
<v Speaker 8>the chase.

0:24:52.576 --> 0:24:52.976
<v Speaker 2>And so.

0:24:54.455 --> 0:24:56.255
<v Speaker 8>Where is Robert, I think is a little more in

0:24:56.296 --> 0:24:58.856
<v Speaker 8>the shadows, in the sense that he is more the closer,

0:24:59.735 --> 0:25:01.576
<v Speaker 8>the guy who tries to get to a win win

0:25:01.856 --> 0:25:05.296
<v Speaker 8>for say the networks in the league or a sponsor

0:25:05.455 --> 0:25:07.776
<v Speaker 8>in the league. And I think that is Robert's skill.

0:25:07.856 --> 0:25:10.856
<v Speaker 8>He's a bit more diplomatic. He's not necessarily the ideas guy,

0:25:11.296 --> 0:25:12.936
<v Speaker 8>but he's the guy that can get it over the

0:25:12.936 --> 0:25:13.736
<v Speaker 8>finish line.

0:25:13.856 --> 0:25:19.176
<v Speaker 5>I'm curious your perception and experience with Jerry Jones. Both

0:25:19.416 --> 0:25:21.936
<v Speaker 5>Matt and I have a different relationship with him, but

0:25:22.016 --> 0:25:25.176
<v Speaker 5>both were so good in that Matt has told the

0:25:25.215 --> 0:25:26.856
<v Speaker 5>story here where Jerry Jones is like we want you.

0:25:26.896 --> 0:25:28.416
<v Speaker 5>We're going to send the plane to get your family,

0:25:28.536 --> 0:25:32.736
<v Speaker 5>like glowing reviews. I emailed the random Dallas Cowboy website

0:25:32.735 --> 0:25:34.616
<v Speaker 5>once because I didn't know how to get hold of Jerry.

0:25:34.776 --> 0:25:36.776
<v Speaker 5>Next thing you know, I'm in the chopper with Jerry

0:25:36.816 --> 0:25:39.455
<v Speaker 5>and his family. It's literally five of us. It's him,

0:25:39.495 --> 0:25:42.056
<v Speaker 5>his son, me and my wife and like my friends

0:25:42.296 --> 0:25:45.096
<v Speaker 5>and Jerry's taken us in the chopper where Landing's walking

0:25:45.136 --> 0:25:47.056
<v Speaker 5>us around. He's like, these people don't want to see

0:25:47.056 --> 0:25:49.015
<v Speaker 5>me there, And like I was so used to use

0:25:49.056 --> 0:25:49.616
<v Speaker 5>the word charms.

0:25:49.656 --> 0:25:50.736
<v Speaker 1>I was so charmed.

0:25:51.056 --> 0:25:54.336
<v Speaker 5>Like is that generally what he does to people is

0:25:54.376 --> 0:25:56.896
<v Speaker 5>make them love him because both of us had such

0:25:56.896 --> 0:25:58.296
<v Speaker 5>a wonderful relationship.

0:25:58.536 --> 0:26:02.656
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, Jerry is a natural. It's just in his blood.

0:26:02.696 --> 0:26:04.815
<v Speaker 8>You could tell a part of his story. I was

0:26:04.856 --> 0:26:06.975
<v Speaker 8>not the first reported he tells it all the time.

0:26:07.376 --> 0:26:09.255
<v Speaker 8>Was when he was a kid and growing up in

0:26:09.696 --> 0:26:12.456
<v Speaker 8>Little Rock, North Little Rock, his dad had a grocery

0:26:12.495 --> 0:26:16.176
<v Speaker 8>store and to bring in customers, they basically put little

0:26:16.256 --> 0:26:19.255
<v Speaker 8>Jerry up there in cowboy outfits to kind of charm

0:26:19.336 --> 0:26:22.896
<v Speaker 8>the moms coming in to do grocery shopping. So he's

0:26:22.936 --> 0:26:25.735
<v Speaker 8>been kind of a showman from a very young age,

0:26:25.776 --> 0:26:29.255
<v Speaker 8>and he understood the connection between being a good showman

0:26:29.376 --> 0:26:33.215
<v Speaker 8>and making money literally helping his dad sell groceries by

0:26:33.495 --> 0:26:37.616
<v Speaker 8>by presenting entertainment, cute entertainment. And it's just in his

0:26:37.656 --> 0:26:40.055
<v Speaker 8>bloody he has that kind of twinkle. I'll tell you

0:26:40.096 --> 0:26:42.256
<v Speaker 8>one other story. I've been up in a helicopter too,

0:26:42.296 --> 0:26:45.575
<v Speaker 8>and with him and he doesn't know how to use

0:26:45.616 --> 0:26:50.936
<v Speaker 8>the headset and he was yeah, exactly you got to

0:26:50.975 --> 0:26:52.896
<v Speaker 8>hit the button the talk and whatever. It was a

0:26:52.936 --> 0:26:56.176
<v Speaker 8>total fiasco, totally. I couldn't hear a word he's saying.

0:26:56.176 --> 0:26:59.136
<v Speaker 8>It was so noisy. And so we take we're in

0:26:59.215 --> 0:27:03.096
<v Speaker 8>we're going around the Star in Frisco, and the photographer

0:27:03.136 --> 0:27:03.416
<v Speaker 8>loved it.

0:27:03.495 --> 0:27:05.336
<v Speaker 2>Right, we're getting in these aerial photos. We get back

0:27:05.576 --> 0:27:07.295
<v Speaker 2>love Field and.

0:27:07.176 --> 0:27:11.376
<v Speaker 8>He he has that kind of charm and he's like, yeah,

0:27:11.495 --> 0:27:14.256
<v Speaker 8>I think we should talk some more because I had

0:27:14.296 --> 0:27:16.936
<v Speaker 8>like nothing in my notebook And we sat in the

0:27:16.975 --> 0:27:19.696
<v Speaker 8>hangar at a table for another hour and a half.

0:27:20.176 --> 0:27:22.975
<v Speaker 8>Like I'm sure he was booked and had to go somewhere,

0:27:23.016 --> 0:27:25.416
<v Speaker 8>but Jerry was going to finish that and I had come,

0:27:25.576 --> 0:27:28.376
<v Speaker 8>you know, down in Dallas to do that interview. So like,

0:27:28.455 --> 0:27:30.576
<v Speaker 8>that's the guy who's committed a lot of other people.

0:27:30.816 --> 0:27:32.776
<v Speaker 8>First all, they wouldn't have taken me up in a helicopter,

0:27:32.856 --> 0:27:35.616
<v Speaker 8>and number two wouldn't have spent twice as much time

0:27:35.656 --> 0:27:37.775
<v Speaker 8>with me just to make sure I had what I needed.

0:27:38.056 --> 0:27:40.775
<v Speaker 3>Do you think this the NFL would have the same

0:27:40.856 --> 0:27:45.936
<v Speaker 3>success without a Jerry Jones, without Robert Kraft or Roger Goodell,

0:27:46.056 --> 0:27:49.056
<v Speaker 3>Like how much of an impact have they had that

0:27:49.136 --> 0:27:52.056
<v Speaker 3>maybe otherwise the NFL wouldn't have the same success.

0:27:52.215 --> 0:27:54.416
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I think about that a lot. You know, the

0:27:54.656 --> 0:27:58.136
<v Speaker 8>what ifs. You know, Jerry and Robert this is in

0:27:58.215 --> 0:28:01.576
<v Speaker 8>the Jerry came in eighty nine and Robert in ninety four.

0:28:02.016 --> 0:28:05.216
<v Speaker 8>At that time, paid record amounts for their team teams,

0:28:05.416 --> 0:28:07.656
<v Speaker 8>and I mean it's hard to believe Jerry paid one

0:28:07.735 --> 0:28:10.455
<v Speaker 8>hundred and fifteen million for the Cowboys. They were like

0:28:10.616 --> 0:28:14.896
<v Speaker 8>twelve billion now, but that was big money when it

0:28:14.936 --> 0:28:17.536
<v Speaker 8>went to nine figures, when it passed one hundred million.

0:28:17.656 --> 0:28:20.416
<v Speaker 8>Now you're kind of talking about a slimmer group of

0:28:20.416 --> 0:28:23.376
<v Speaker 8>people able to get into the NFL. And they were

0:28:23.416 --> 0:28:26.736
<v Speaker 8>part of a wave in the nineties of like wealthy

0:28:26.816 --> 0:28:29.495
<v Speaker 8>business people, smart business people were coming in, not just

0:28:29.536 --> 0:28:33.495
<v Speaker 8>football people and not people just interested in dabbling. And

0:28:33.576 --> 0:28:37.295
<v Speaker 8>so you had Wayne Heisinger in Miami, he owned Blockbuster

0:28:37.376 --> 0:28:40.616
<v Speaker 8>and a bunch of other things. Jeffrey Lourie from the

0:28:40.696 --> 0:28:44.815
<v Speaker 8>Loew's hotel chain. So you have like bigger money people

0:28:44.856 --> 0:28:47.536
<v Speaker 8>coming in. So they were not alone, and I think

0:28:47.576 --> 0:28:51.216
<v Speaker 8>that changed the thinking in the league from hey, football

0:28:51.376 --> 0:28:53.536
<v Speaker 8>is played. You know, you go to mass then you

0:28:53.576 --> 0:28:55.696
<v Speaker 8>come to the stadium, then you play at one o'clock

0:28:55.696 --> 0:28:57.976
<v Speaker 8>and you go home. And then you got people like

0:28:58.056 --> 0:29:00.696
<v Speaker 8>Jerry and Robert who went into debt to buy their

0:29:00.736 --> 0:29:03.896
<v Speaker 8>teams and they really needed new ideas to make back

0:29:03.936 --> 0:29:07.296
<v Speaker 8>their money, so that really fueled it. I think Jerry

0:29:07.296 --> 0:29:11.176
<v Speaker 8>and Robert were probably the best equipped. I think Heisinger

0:29:11.216 --> 0:29:13.976
<v Speaker 8>had lots of other businesses and he was partly distracted

0:29:14.696 --> 0:29:17.416
<v Speaker 8>Jeffrey Lorie just you know, doesn't want to necessarily lead

0:29:17.456 --> 0:29:21.136
<v Speaker 8>from the front. But Jerry and Robert definitely were part

0:29:21.136 --> 0:29:24.576
<v Speaker 8>of that wave. But they were very much more willing

0:29:24.656 --> 0:29:27.376
<v Speaker 8>to put in the extra hours on behalf of the league,

0:29:27.496 --> 0:29:30.616
<v Speaker 8>not just their teams. So I'd say that's why it

0:29:30.656 --> 0:29:32.216
<v Speaker 8>would have been a very different league. I don't think

0:29:32.216 --> 0:29:34.176
<v Speaker 8>they would have grown as quickly. They would have grown,

0:29:34.176 --> 0:29:35.456
<v Speaker 8>but not nearly as quickly.

0:29:35.816 --> 0:29:38.936
<v Speaker 5>The book definitely covers economic growth and just growth in

0:29:38.976 --> 0:29:41.416
<v Speaker 5>general of the sport, because in our life we have

0:29:41.496 --> 0:29:44.856
<v Speaker 5>seen an NFL boom. Any chance, this is just your

0:29:44.896 --> 0:29:48.216
<v Speaker 5>opinion here, did the NFL at times grow too fast

0:29:48.336 --> 0:29:49.256
<v Speaker 5>they couldn't keep up.

0:29:49.576 --> 0:29:52.296
<v Speaker 8>It's a great question, and frankly you're the first person

0:29:52.296 --> 0:29:55.776
<v Speaker 8>to ask it that way. So yeah, there's a question

0:29:55.816 --> 0:29:59.896
<v Speaker 8>of like how much is too much the NFL and

0:30:00.216 --> 0:30:05.056
<v Speaker 8>Paul Tagibow's period is really where it most took hold.

0:30:06.376 --> 0:30:08.696
<v Speaker 8>But there was you know, there's NFL Properties, which is

0:30:08.776 --> 0:30:12.736
<v Speaker 8>the for profit arm of the NFL. The NFL league

0:30:12.736 --> 0:30:17.176
<v Speaker 8>itself is just you know, governs the sport. And those

0:30:17.176 --> 0:30:19.496
<v Speaker 8>were the wild West days in the eighties and the

0:30:19.536 --> 0:30:22.656
<v Speaker 8>early nineties where they were signing deals all over the place,

0:30:23.296 --> 0:30:28.216
<v Speaker 8>different sponsorships. You know, you didn't have necessarily exclusivity, so

0:30:28.256 --> 0:30:31.296
<v Speaker 8>you didn't have like Nike as the official parel company.

0:30:31.536 --> 0:30:34.376
<v Speaker 8>So you have like six companies, and at that point

0:30:34.576 --> 0:30:37.576
<v Speaker 8>it gets kind of chaotic because everybody's kind of grabbing

0:30:37.616 --> 0:30:40.096
<v Speaker 8>it the same. There's you can you can saturate the

0:30:40.136 --> 0:30:43.696
<v Speaker 8>market if it's not done carefully, and so yes, there

0:30:43.736 --> 0:30:46.976
<v Speaker 8>was in some ways it was a hungry period and

0:30:47.016 --> 0:30:48.976
<v Speaker 8>there was money to be made, but it was it

0:30:49.016 --> 0:30:52.056
<v Speaker 8>was the sales team was kind of running the show

0:30:52.216 --> 0:30:54.856
<v Speaker 8>and without the same kind of game plan. I think

0:30:54.896 --> 0:30:57.976
<v Speaker 8>when Paul Tagubu comes in in nineteen eighty nine, one

0:30:57.976 --> 0:31:00.296
<v Speaker 8>of the first things he does, or a year or

0:31:00.336 --> 0:31:03.336
<v Speaker 8>two into it, he settles the labor problem. Players get

0:31:03.336 --> 0:31:04.096
<v Speaker 8>free agency.

0:31:04.576 --> 0:31:05.136
<v Speaker 2>That was like a.

0:31:05.056 --> 0:31:08.616
<v Speaker 8>Big, big deal obviously, and then there's revenue sharing. But

0:31:08.696 --> 0:31:11.575
<v Speaker 8>then he hires a guy named Neil Austrian who is

0:31:11.616 --> 0:31:13.896
<v Speaker 8>in the early part of the book. And Neil is

0:31:13.936 --> 0:31:17.136
<v Speaker 8>a very experienced business person, not a sports guy. He

0:31:17.176 --> 0:31:20.416
<v Speaker 8>worked at Warner Brothers, he worked in IBM, lots of

0:31:20.416 --> 0:31:23.136
<v Speaker 8>corporate experience, and he basically said, you run the business.

0:31:23.656 --> 0:31:26.856
<v Speaker 8>And at that point the NFL said, okay, let's rationalize this.

0:31:27.376 --> 0:31:30.896
<v Speaker 8>So you had Sunday ticket came in in ninety four,

0:31:31.336 --> 0:31:35.416
<v Speaker 8>and then the league starts signing exclusivity, the exclusive deals.

0:31:35.416 --> 0:31:38.016
<v Speaker 8>So instead of having five apparel makers, they say, let's

0:31:38.016 --> 0:31:40.656
<v Speaker 8>just go with Reebok. Instead of having a bunch of

0:31:40.696 --> 0:31:43.856
<v Speaker 8>different soda companies, let's just do coke. And so you

0:31:43.896 --> 0:31:46.856
<v Speaker 8>could charge a premium for that exclusivity. And so I

0:31:46.856 --> 0:31:49.976
<v Speaker 8>think that kind of streamlined the business, and that those

0:31:50.016 --> 0:31:53.256
<v Speaker 8>wild West days of you know, sales guys just signing

0:31:53.296 --> 0:31:56.216
<v Speaker 8>deals left and right kind of dissolved a little bit

0:31:56.336 --> 0:31:58.176
<v Speaker 8>and the NFL.

0:31:57.856 --> 0:31:58.976
<v Speaker 2>Became a little more efficient.

0:31:59.016 --> 0:32:15.616
<v Speaker 9>I guess it was a better way of looking at it.

0:32:15.696 --> 0:32:16.896
<v Speaker 1>In the foreseeable future.

0:32:16.936 --> 0:32:19.976
<v Speaker 3>Do you see anything that could hinder the growth of

0:32:20.016 --> 0:32:22.056
<v Speaker 3>the NFL? I mean, the one thing that I can

0:32:22.136 --> 0:32:24.696
<v Speaker 3>only think of as a collective bargaining agreement that they

0:32:24.696 --> 0:32:25.216
<v Speaker 3>can't come to.

0:32:25.176 --> 0:32:26.176
<v Speaker 1>The table on both sides.

0:32:26.216 --> 0:32:29.936
<v Speaker 3>Because I was part of the lockout in twenty eleven,

0:32:29.976 --> 0:32:32.575
<v Speaker 3>I believe it was, and it was back and forth,

0:32:32.776 --> 0:32:34.776
<v Speaker 3>and that's the only thing that I could see in

0:32:34.816 --> 0:32:36.976
<v Speaker 3>the foreseeable future that would slow down the growth.

0:32:36.976 --> 0:32:39.056
<v Speaker 1>But I would love to hear your opinion on that, sure.

0:32:39.096 --> 0:32:42.736
<v Speaker 8>I mean, obviously, labor is huge in the union right now,

0:32:42.816 --> 0:32:46.176
<v Speaker 8>doesn't just have an interim leader. So there's issues on

0:32:46.216 --> 0:32:49.096
<v Speaker 8>the player side as well, and that's always out there,

0:32:49.096 --> 0:32:52.016
<v Speaker 8>although I think there's still several years away, another half

0:32:52.056 --> 0:32:55.136
<v Speaker 8>decade ago on the current deal, but there's a lot

0:32:55.136 --> 0:32:57.576
<v Speaker 8>of stuff out there. Just think of let's talk really

0:32:57.616 --> 0:33:01.136
<v Speaker 8>broadly about the demographics of America. There's just essentially a

0:33:01.176 --> 0:33:04.816
<v Speaker 8>slowing birth rate, which means fewer kids, which means fewer

0:33:04.856 --> 0:33:08.936
<v Speaker 8>young athlete, which potentially means fewer young football players, and

0:33:08.976 --> 0:33:12.936
<v Speaker 8>potentially fewer NFL fans. And that is what's driving part

0:33:12.976 --> 0:33:16.376
<v Speaker 8>of what's driving the NFL to play overseas to find

0:33:16.416 --> 0:33:18.776
<v Speaker 8>new fans. I mean, you know, ninety three out of

0:33:18.816 --> 0:33:21.896
<v Speaker 8>the top one hundred broadcasts a few years ago were

0:33:21.976 --> 0:33:25.536
<v Speaker 8>NFL games, Like how much more can you saturate American

0:33:25.696 --> 0:33:29.056
<v Speaker 8>audiences with football? And they're not even at the eighteenth

0:33:29.136 --> 0:33:33.336
<v Speaker 8>game yet. So that's one is just the demographics of America.

0:33:33.376 --> 0:33:36.056
<v Speaker 8>And by the way, you know, baseball and other sports

0:33:36.096 --> 0:33:38.336
<v Speaker 8>deal with this too. And then you get gambling, which

0:33:38.336 --> 0:33:41.815
<v Speaker 8>we haven't discussed yet, and that is already changing the

0:33:41.856 --> 0:33:46.536
<v Speaker 8>contours the relationship with the fans. It's really fracturing, frankly,

0:33:46.736 --> 0:33:50.136
<v Speaker 8>the way people watch sports in general, but particularly the NFL.

0:33:50.376 --> 0:33:53.296
<v Speaker 8>Now you're literally betting on your phone in real time,

0:33:53.936 --> 0:33:57.776
<v Speaker 8>and so the whole viewing experience is completely distorted. Instead

0:33:57.776 --> 0:33:59.576
<v Speaker 8>of waiting until the end of the game to find

0:33:59.576 --> 0:34:01.456
<v Speaker 8>the score, you're betting on plays in the middle of

0:34:01.456 --> 0:34:04.776
<v Speaker 8>the game. And I just think that like this, it

0:34:04.816 --> 0:34:08.016
<v Speaker 8>has fracked sure the sports viewing experience, and I think

0:34:08.016 --> 0:34:10.895
<v Speaker 8>the league's plural are going to have a challenge. There's

0:34:10.896 --> 0:34:13.776
<v Speaker 8>a great book called Dopamine Nation, and this is just

0:34:13.856 --> 0:34:17.696
<v Speaker 8>part of a larger trend of you know, fantasy football

0:34:17.736 --> 0:34:20.936
<v Speaker 8>being one but smartphones, you know, and when I started

0:34:20.936 --> 0:34:23.776
<v Speaker 8>playing fantasy football twenty five years ago, I had to

0:34:23.776 --> 0:34:27.496
<v Speaker 8>go to a desktop computer and refresh eighteen times to

0:34:27.536 --> 0:34:30.296
<v Speaker 8>get my score. You know, these days, it's on my

0:34:30.376 --> 0:34:34.976
<v Speaker 8>phone automatically. So yeah, it's not just an NFL problem,

0:34:34.976 --> 0:34:37.056
<v Speaker 8>but it is an acute problem.

0:34:37.256 --> 0:34:39.016
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I want to go back to Roger Goodell for

0:34:39.056 --> 0:34:42.736
<v Speaker 3>a second, and he's had to navigate through a lot,

0:34:44.016 --> 0:34:47.616
<v Speaker 3>and I'm talking about concussions. I'm talking about social injustice

0:34:48.696 --> 0:34:53.456
<v Speaker 3>and what would you say was his biggest accomplishment while

0:34:53.496 --> 0:34:56.136
<v Speaker 3>he has been a leader of the NFL.

0:34:56.056 --> 0:35:00.056
<v Speaker 8>So, you know, credit where it's due, the whole concussion protocol,

0:35:00.376 --> 0:35:02.616
<v Speaker 8>just as an example, taking a player out of a game,

0:35:02.736 --> 0:35:08.976
<v Speaker 8>having spotters and neurologists on the sidelines, players themselves self diagnosing,

0:35:10.096 --> 0:35:10.936
<v Speaker 8>you know, the blue tent.

0:35:11.656 --> 0:35:14.216
<v Speaker 2>All these things didn't exist, you know, until.

0:35:13.976 --> 0:35:16.656
<v Speaker 8>What ten years ago, and now you know there's an

0:35:16.696 --> 0:35:20.336
<v Speaker 8>actual formal protocol. You of course still have examples like

0:35:20.456 --> 0:35:24.936
<v Speaker 8>to and players who seem to get back, you know,

0:35:25.016 --> 0:35:28.536
<v Speaker 8>before they're ready, but just as many players now sit

0:35:28.616 --> 0:35:31.816
<v Speaker 8>out and maybe more, and so you know, that's something

0:35:31.856 --> 0:35:34.696
<v Speaker 8>that he probably deserves some credit for and pushing the

0:35:34.776 --> 0:35:39.216
<v Speaker 8>league to try and address these pretty big and really

0:35:39.296 --> 0:35:43.696
<v Speaker 8>frankly fundamental problems. There's a lot of marketing and messaging around,

0:35:43.696 --> 0:35:49.536
<v Speaker 8>say for helmets and youth football and flag football and

0:35:49.616 --> 0:35:50.496
<v Speaker 8>some of them are good.

0:35:50.576 --> 0:35:50.736
<v Speaker 2>Some.

0:35:50.856 --> 0:35:52.936
<v Speaker 8>I mean, helmets are nice, but they're not going to

0:35:53.096 --> 0:35:56.976
<v Speaker 8>prevent a concussion. But I would say the concussion protocol

0:35:57.016 --> 0:35:59.616
<v Speaker 8>stuff has been a big game changer.

0:36:00.176 --> 0:36:04.296
<v Speaker 5>We are an NFL podcast. They pay us, we work

0:36:04.416 --> 0:36:08.056
<v Speaker 5>for the NFL, and we also know who the boss is.

0:36:08.136 --> 0:36:10.096
<v Speaker 5>Now we have never had a guest that we've booked

0:36:10.096 --> 0:36:12.256
<v Speaker 5>and they've said no. But they can say no because

0:36:12.296 --> 0:36:16.776
<v Speaker 5>they are inevitably our boss. This book, I feel like

0:36:16.776 --> 0:36:19.656
<v Speaker 5>it is so comprehensive that there is a lot of

0:36:19.696 --> 0:36:24.496
<v Speaker 5>great stuff. There's also some honesty hear that maybe makes

0:36:24.616 --> 0:36:27.256
<v Speaker 5>versions of the NFL go man. I wish we'd done

0:36:27.256 --> 0:36:29.736
<v Speaker 5>a better job at this point. Why would the NFL

0:36:29.816 --> 0:36:31.376
<v Speaker 5>let us have you on? Since this is not a

0:36:31.416 --> 0:36:33.656
<v Speaker 5>complete I love the NFL book.

0:36:33.816 --> 0:36:36.496
<v Speaker 8>I don't know whether they've intervened or they actually look

0:36:36.536 --> 0:36:37.656
<v Speaker 8>over your booking schedule.

0:36:37.816 --> 0:36:40.216
<v Speaker 1>They do, know, they do. Why do they love you?

0:36:40.296 --> 0:36:40.496
<v Speaker 2>They do?

0:36:40.736 --> 0:36:41.736
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:36:41.816 --> 0:36:43.856
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they love me, but I think

0:36:43.896 --> 0:36:45.696
<v Speaker 2>they I have to say, the NFL.

0:36:46.416 --> 0:36:49.336
<v Speaker 8>I think they know who I am, and you know,

0:36:49.576 --> 0:36:51.776
<v Speaker 8>I'd like to think the book is deeply reported. I've

0:36:51.816 --> 0:36:55.016
<v Speaker 8>spoken to at least a dozen owners for the book.

0:36:56.336 --> 0:37:02.256
<v Speaker 8>Union people, Network people, I think thoroughly researched the book,

0:37:02.296 --> 0:37:05.496
<v Speaker 8>and so from that perspective, you know, I think they

0:37:05.656 --> 0:37:09.096
<v Speaker 8>can appreciate the effort that went into it. It's not

0:37:09.176 --> 0:37:13.296
<v Speaker 8>a gotcha book in that sense. In one review of

0:37:13.336 --> 0:37:16.256
<v Speaker 8>the book, somebody said there are no heroes. I'd like

0:37:16.296 --> 0:37:19.336
<v Speaker 8>to think that's probably true. And I didn't write it

0:37:19.336 --> 0:37:22.976
<v Speaker 8>as a polemic. I wrote it as like a reported history,

0:37:22.976 --> 0:37:24.936
<v Speaker 8>if you want to call it that, or contemporary history.

0:37:25.336 --> 0:37:27.576
<v Speaker 8>So I think it's fair in that sense. And yeah,

0:37:27.576 --> 0:37:29.616
<v Speaker 8>there's stuff I'm sure they would like not to be

0:37:29.656 --> 0:37:32.416
<v Speaker 8>in the book, but that also gives it authenticity. I

0:37:32.416 --> 0:37:35.536
<v Speaker 8>hope it's not a cheerleading book. You know, there's a

0:37:35.576 --> 0:37:39.576
<v Speaker 8>fine line between giving Jerry Jones and Robert Craft and

0:37:39.696 --> 0:37:42.376
<v Speaker 8>Roger Goodell credit for making a lot of money. It's

0:37:42.416 --> 0:37:44.656
<v Speaker 8>a business book. On the other hand, you know, like

0:37:44.816 --> 0:37:46.896
<v Speaker 8>it's up to the reader to decide whether that's greed.

0:37:47.496 --> 0:37:50.496
<v Speaker 8>And maybe that's too much, right, but I'm not trying

0:37:50.496 --> 0:37:51.976
<v Speaker 8>to tilt the scales in that sense.

0:37:53.336 --> 0:37:55.816
<v Speaker 5>Final question, Ken, being the reporter you are that are

0:37:55.816 --> 0:37:58.936
<v Speaker 5>reported on so many things, different types of things. I

0:37:58.936 --> 0:38:02.176
<v Speaker 5>have a couple of friends that also do a job

0:38:02.376 --> 0:38:04.496
<v Speaker 5>similar to yours. And they just talk about how they

0:38:05.136 --> 0:38:07.616
<v Speaker 5>text and text and text, and so many texts are

0:38:07.656 --> 0:38:10.296
<v Speaker 5>just not returned. Is that a big part of your career,

0:38:10.416 --> 0:38:12.376
<v Speaker 5>just texting and being left on read all the time.

0:38:14.256 --> 0:38:16.815
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's part of the job. I will say.

0:38:17.016 --> 0:38:19.656
<v Speaker 8>You know, I've been asked a lot like how long

0:38:19.696 --> 0:38:21.376
<v Speaker 8>did it take you to write the book? And the

0:38:21.816 --> 0:38:24.256
<v Speaker 8>short answer is I started it in twenty twenty two

0:38:24.376 --> 0:38:27.736
<v Speaker 8>and got the contract in twenty three to start writing.

0:38:28.696 --> 0:38:31.216
<v Speaker 8>But the real answer is twenty thirteen when I started

0:38:31.216 --> 0:38:34.856
<v Speaker 8>covering the league full time, because the book didn't happen

0:38:35.216 --> 0:38:39.496
<v Speaker 8>without relationships I had already had with Pick the Owner,

0:38:39.576 --> 0:38:45.456
<v Speaker 8>Art Rooney, Shod Cohn, Arthur Blank, Robert Kraft, so forth.

0:38:45.896 --> 0:38:48.256
<v Speaker 8>So like you know, when I got the book, I

0:38:48.296 --> 0:38:50.696
<v Speaker 8>already knew that for nine or ten years. And they

0:38:50.776 --> 0:38:52.336
<v Speaker 8>do pick up your calls, or at least they take

0:38:52.376 --> 0:38:56.816
<v Speaker 8>you seriously. And I'll be honest, like they're busy people, right,

0:38:56.856 --> 0:39:00.096
<v Speaker 8>I get it. So just getting time in Arthur Blank's

0:39:00.136 --> 0:39:03.176
<v Speaker 8>schedule took like three months, you know, or two months.

0:39:03.216 --> 0:39:03.616
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:39:04.576 --> 0:39:07.936
<v Speaker 8>Shod con I ended up speaking to him for four

0:39:07.976 --> 0:39:11.176
<v Speaker 8>hours on a Saturday before a day before a game.

0:39:12.576 --> 0:39:15.335
<v Speaker 8>But you know, that took months to sort out. They're

0:39:15.376 --> 0:39:17.896
<v Speaker 8>just busy people, So I get it, and I'm asking

0:39:17.976 --> 0:39:20.096
<v Speaker 8>them for a favor. I think the owners who sat

0:39:20.136 --> 0:39:23.496
<v Speaker 8>with me obviously we're interested in talking about, for instance,

0:39:23.536 --> 0:39:28.136
<v Speaker 8>the twenty eleven lockout TV deals, whatever. But you know,

0:39:28.216 --> 0:39:32.296
<v Speaker 8>you're just juggling a lot. Then you know the network

0:39:32.336 --> 0:39:34.576
<v Speaker 8>people all these things. Very few people'll just call you

0:39:34.656 --> 0:39:37.336
<v Speaker 8>right back, So I get that that's just part of the.

0:39:37.336 --> 0:39:40.136
<v Speaker 1>Job, Ken Belson. Every day is Sunday.

0:39:41.016 --> 0:39:43.456
<v Speaker 5>Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, and Roger Goodell turned the NFL

0:39:43.496 --> 0:39:46.416
<v Speaker 5>into a cultural and economic juggernaut. I know the book's

0:39:46.416 --> 0:39:49.536
<v Speaker 5>been out since October. I hope you sell a billion copies.

0:39:50.856 --> 0:39:54.496
<v Speaker 5>I'm it's so thorough. You can order the book on Amazon,

0:39:54.536 --> 0:39:56.056
<v Speaker 5>but you can order anything on Amazon. You can't order

0:39:56.096 --> 0:39:58.056
<v Speaker 5>pickle jar. You can order this book. You can order

0:39:58.056 --> 0:39:59.776
<v Speaker 5>whatever you want, but this book is there.

0:40:00.256 --> 0:40:00.536
<v Speaker 1>Ken.

0:40:00.576 --> 0:40:03.616
<v Speaker 5>We really appreciate the time spending with us today, and

0:40:03.656 --> 0:40:04.816
<v Speaker 5>congratulations in the book.

0:40:04.976 --> 0:40:06.976
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, great conversation, appreciate it.

0:40:06.976 --> 0:40:15.136
<v Speaker 5>Thanks, okay, thanks to Ken Belson. I didn't even get

0:40:15.136 --> 0:40:16.456
<v Speaker 5>to my Arkansas hiring a new coach.

0:40:16.976 --> 0:40:17.136
<v Speaker 2>Guy.

0:40:18.136 --> 0:40:20.335
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I said, what we're gonna do? Uh, we're gonna

0:40:20.336 --> 0:40:23.136
<v Speaker 3>wrap this and so let's be part one.

0:40:23.376 --> 0:40:24.736
<v Speaker 5>We'll have part two coming up in a little bit

0:40:24.776 --> 0:40:26.136
<v Speaker 5>because we got to get to our topics too.

0:40:26.456 --> 0:40:28.176
<v Speaker 1>So, uh, this is lots to say.

0:40:28.216 --> 0:40:31.216
<v Speaker 5>I'm Bobby Bones, that's Matt Castle, that's kick Off Kevin,

0:40:31.416 --> 0:40:33.656
<v Speaker 5>and we got Morgan over the running cameras today because Brandon,

0:40:33.976 --> 0:40:38.816
<v Speaker 5>because Brandon's like onation or something. That's that's true. Okay,

0:40:39.016 --> 0:40:41.136
<v Speaker 5>this is part one. Part two will be up soon.

0:40:41.496 --> 0:40:42.376
<v Speaker 5>We've had lots to say.

0:40:42.376 --> 0:40:50.256
<v Speaker 4>Goodbye everybody, lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt

0:40:50.296 --> 0:40:54.056
<v Speaker 4>Castle is a production of the NFL and iHeart Podcasts.

0:40:54.176 --> 0:40:58.416
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:40:58.456 --> 0:40:59.816
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts.