WEBVTT - A Time of Great Transformation 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:20.239 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody pre recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.320 I'm very excited to bring to you UM. I guess 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.720 in the closure of our coverage of Imagine twenty two hundred, 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.440 where we have you have now heard um from three 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:38.400 different people, First the founder Tory Stevens that we interviewed 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.760 a couple of weeks ago, and now um you will 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:48.200 hear from next GENA Maguire. I have enjoyed so so 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:54.880 much these conversations with these amazing, brilliant fiction writers in 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.040 thinking about how they are reimagining our world and our 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:04.840 climate future. Imagine twenty two hundred Fix Climate Fiction Contest 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.400 recognizes stories that envision the next one hundred and eighty 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:16.080 years of equitable climate progress, imagining intersectional worlds of abundance, adaptation, reform, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:22.600 and hope. I've really enjoyed reading these stories and interviewing 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.319 the writers who have such a clear understanding of the 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.720 climate crisis that we are in, but the possibilities that 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:38.000 we have. I think, oftentimes when we are locked in 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:45.200 to a cycle of grief, of sadness, of rage, anger 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:53.480 and look all things absolutely rightfully call for those emotions. 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.520 But then I want to present to you all the 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.760 other side of that, the ying to the yang, if 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:06.880 you will, which is, we cannot imagine a better world, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.560 a better future, not for ourselves necessarily because we may 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.360 not see it, but for the generations that will come 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.880 behind us. If we are locked into a place of 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.920 rage and grief, that is a scarcity mindset. And in 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:27.200 order to think bigger and greater and innovate and create, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.680 we must do so from a place of abundance. And 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.799 the only way that you get there is by rest. Right, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.800 is by rest, is by relaxation, is by tending to 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.880 ourselves and what it is that we actually can control. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.440 Because here's the thing, friends, if there is nothing else 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.000 that you realize over the last three years of living 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.880 inside of a global health pandemic and the meltdown of 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:59.639 our democracy, is that everything outside of us we don't 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.600 really have control over. We vote, we march, we give 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:08.000 money if we can, we volunteer, and we give our times. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:14.520 But then after that we must put it down, put 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:19.959 the weight down right, and do things that are nurturing, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:24.280 that are wholesome, that feel good for ourselves and those 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:30.679 that we love around us. We can't marinate in despair 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.840 and think that through that somehow by being committed to 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:40.160 grief and misery, that change is going to happen. Rest 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:45.960 is part of the resistance. Imagination, creativity, love, joy is 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.920 part of the resistance because when you think about what 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:55.480 the opposition wants, they want cruelty, they want devastation, they 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.160 want oppression. We don't have to give it to them. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.600 So what I love about this story series and this 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:12.520 contest was taking something that is so huge of a problem, 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.479 so huge of an obstacle in our lives, which is 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:22.000 climate change, and not just being focused on our impending doom, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.839 but imagining what happens when the systems that we believe 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:35.200 that could never fall do what can come in its place? Right, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.159 I think about the phoenix rising from the ashes. I 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.120 think about a lotus flower pulling itself through mud. I 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:53.560 think about you know how sometimes breakdowns make room for 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:59.640 a breakthrough, and that what is required in this moment 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:04.120 is a shift in perspective, is a shift and how 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.680 we decide to take information in and what we decide 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:13.719 to do with it. Because each of us are powerful, right, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.440 each of us are powerful in in our own ways. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.479 And the thing that we are able to control is 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:24.240 how we show up right in all of the moments 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.360 of our lives. I want to give you an example 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.280 and tell you a little anecdote. The other day, one 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:38.040 of one of my friends received bad news that she 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:46.880 had seriously broken fractured her foot, broken it and she 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.080 had been walking on it and you know, there had 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.760 been swelling, but she thought it was from a prior 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.440 injury and not that she had had a new one. 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.680 So she goes to the doctor. They do an X 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.279 ray and lo and behold, Yes it's broken, and it 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.320 is a bad break. And all that is playing through 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.160 her mind is the fact that she has finally been 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.040 back in a workout plan, back feeling good about moving 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.320 her body and really like excited right and proud of 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.600 herself about, you know, the moves that she's making. And 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.240 as she sat in the doctor's office, she burst into 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.320 tears because all she could think about was that all 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.400 of the progress that she had made and the way 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.440 that she was feeling good was now gone because she 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.560 was going to be a mobile She couldn't even with 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.880 a walking boot. The doctor is like, the break is 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.040 really bad, and we need you to not walk at 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.560 all for the next two weeks and then we can 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.200 assess whether or not you need surgery. So as she's 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.000 relaying this to me, I hear the pain in her voice. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.920 And if you all remember earlier, you know, at the 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.039 beginning of summer, I broke my toe, shattered it in 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.359 two places. Most people that break a toe we're in 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.560 a boot for four to six weeks. I was in 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.560 one for ten the entirety of the summer, and then 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.520 when I finally did get it off, I would get 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.520 COVID the month later. So it was quite a shit summer. 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.280 So I understood her angst and the pain that she 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.600 was going through, but I offered this. I said, you know, 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:26.880 I recognize how upsetting this is. I know that you 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.960 have been really excited about all the work that you've 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.680 been doing, all the work you've been putting into your fitness, 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.120 and I'm really proud of you. But I want to 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.720 offer something. Maybe you get with your trainer and you 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.600 do some chair workouts. Maybe you know, go on YouTube 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.600 and you see what kind of seated fitness you can 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:53.360 be doing, seated pilate, seated yoga. You know, I told 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.600 her that when I started to get really like frustrated 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.680 with the fact that this boot was not coming off 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.520 of my own foot, I started to do seated shadow 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.880 boxing because it just made me feel better to just 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:12.400 work up a little bit of a sweat. So today 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.000 I received a text from my friend that said, my 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.520 trainer and I did a really amazing seated workout today. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.000 Thank you so much for reminding me not to quit 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:28.119 and to just adjust. And that's the thing that that's 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.960 the message, honestly that I'm carrying for the end of 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.720 this year and for the rest of my life. Frankly, 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.520 quitting should never be an option, not quitting on our democracy, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.400 not quitting on our planet, not quitting on ourselves. We 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.120 just need to adjust. We need to adjust our perspective, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:52.920 open up our hearts and adjust, you know, our mindset 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:58.160 and our ability to expand our thought and our way 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.400 of being. And when we do so, things don't seem 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.959 so bad. You can take them in pieces. And so 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.640 I think that the beauty of this series Imagine twenty 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:15.000 two hundred offers us real insight through creativity, through fiction, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.600 the ways in which we can create a better and 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.800 more symbiotic relationship with the planet. With the animals, with 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.600 the air, with the water, with the land, and that 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.800 it doesn't have to be a zero sum probability. So 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:36.520 coming up next, friends, my conversation with Gena McGuire about 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.440 her story By the Skin of Your Teeth amid the 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.360 Sharks and the Waves of Hawaii, Two people discover something 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:52.160 important about themselves and each other, Folks. I am very 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.560 excited to welcome to wok F Daily. For the very 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.520 first time, we have been in conversation, folks, with some 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.640 of the finalist in the Imagine twenty two hundred uh 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:10.320 fixes Climate Fiction contest, which recognizes stories that envision the 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.079 next one hundred and eighty years of equitable climate progress, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:19.240 imagining intersectional world of abundance, adaptation, reform and hope. And 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.760 today I'm very excited to be with the second place winner, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.400 Gina McGuire, whose story is entitled By the Skin of 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.000 Your Teeth amid the Sharks and Waves of Hawaii. Two 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:36.520 people discover something important about themselves and each other. Gina, Welcome, 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:44.280 joke Fum. You know I want folks who have been 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:50.359 listening to your other Grist colleagues to get an understanding 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:56.360 from you first about the themes surrounding your your story 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:03.280 and congratulations on your second place. When um, this story 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.480 itself will be linked in the episode in the notes 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.040 so that folks can absolutely listen to this interview and 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.120 then go ahead, uh and read or listen to your piece. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.360 But can you can you talk to us about about 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:20.120 the themes around your story? Yeah? So, UM, I love 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.079 what Grist is doing about imagining the next one hundred 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.680 you know, eighty years twenty two hundred and UM. For me, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.760 when I was you know, when you think about climate futures, 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:35.200 and that's like the basic prompt, right, and um, it's 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:39.960 often I think fairly bleak futures that we often are envisioning, right. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.040 And so for me, I'm both Polish and Native Hawaiian. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.640 I grew up in Hawaii. But when I envisioned the 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.800 future and and I and you know, you don't have 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.959 that very hopeful feeling going into it, and you're like, well, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.320 how do I write something that's not just dark? Um? 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.960 And so when I understand doing it, well, I I'm 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.040 thinking about you know, indigenous people's, about native people's, Native Hawaiian, um, 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:12.040 a lot of Pacific islanders, and for us climate futures, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.520 I feel aren't in the future, Like, it's not. It's 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.640 something that we're dealing with right now. And if we 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.600 think about people in Boganville or Cure Boss, even in Hawaii, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.319 we're seeing it, and we have these histories of adaptation 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.200 and and resilience and strength. And so what I really 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.640 wanted to bring forward into my fiction my future is 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.760 what if we change the narrative from like, from putting 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:45.200 Native people as like adapting to having some kind of 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.920 sovereignty over their own future. And so in this story 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.679 it's based in Hawaii and oev characters that I'm not 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:58.079 talking about political sovereignty necessarily, but having the decision and 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.680 the ability to make your own decisions for your own 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:06.320 aina of land. And see, that was my hope for 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.200 that story. So yeah, that's kind of that was what 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.160 drove it. And then in the midst of all of that, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:19.040 I bringing forward grief and unrequited love and angst and 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:24.640 bringing that all together, So trying to speak across I 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.040 write kind of on behalf of and for Native peoples. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.920 That's kind of my whole thing, But trying to create 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.040 characters and emotions that are speak to the human condition 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.040 and are kind of I don't want to say universal 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.400 things that regardless of your background, hopefully you can like 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.720 you feel it. So, yeah, that's the story. I thought 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:53.400 that your story was so beautiful one the imagery that 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.640 it created. And again, folks, the story is by the 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.760 skin of your teeth, the imagery that it created of 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:07.520 being on this beautiful, vast ocean, of being a protector 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.920 and a guardian of the of the largest mammals. Right, 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:20.400 there was a symbiotic nature that was being presented that 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.880 I think, you know, I guess my question for you 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:30.440 is this is that indigenous culture and practice is something 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:38.600 that colonizers extinguished, right kind of in this way of 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.880 eye alone can fix this. And so your primitive indigenous 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.560 way of thinking primitive, I use in quotation marks, we 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.760 don't need. Yeah, And I think that what we are 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.120 seeing and what we are living in and the reality 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.920 that we're living in, as as as the climate crisis 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.200 is now here, it was impending, you know twenty years ago. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.760 It is now literally on our shores, in our fields, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.640 you know, in these fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, in the warming seas. 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.880 Talk to me about this, this symbiotic relationship that you created, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.280 UM with these guardians, Um and these and these waterways 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.840 and how it is entwined in both the world that 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.800 you were creating but also the world that you that 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:30.359 you live in as a as a as a native. Yeah, 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:35.040 now that's a really beautiful question. And um, all different, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.400 I mean, indigenous culture is all very different. So I'll 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.640 just talk about it from an OIV kind of standpoint. But, um, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.200 this idea of kinship, and I don't even like I work. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.360 I'm a PhD student and I also work for the 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.160 Four Service, so I work in environmental science and then create. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.680 I'm trying to be a creative writer. But I love it. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.560 I love that. That's amazing. Thank you trying to juggle 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.200 these um these different worlds and like you just said, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.680 like you know, I don't want to call it Western science, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.320 but often not being able to speak to or understand 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.480 necessarily that the way that the story ends, right is 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:18.840 the ocean itself. The waves are kind of acknowledging the 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.960 characters and their ask for help, and then we have 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.840 these really kin based relationships and ancestral relationships with sharks 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.960 in the story. So that doesn't translate very easily when 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.000 we're talking about environmental science. Um, but I think we 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.720 need more of it and we need more dialogue between 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:46.000 the two. Also, just this idea I like the word 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:51.640 that you use, but this idea of like a symbiotic relationship. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.360 I want to say win win, But there there has 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.080 to be ways right that people aren't like the bad 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.200 guys an environment quite often, you know, it's like we 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.520 talk about pollution and deforestation over fishing, they're all and 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:13.840 those are all anthropogenic harmships on the environment. And So 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.280 what I love about fiction and what I love about 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.159 writing as opposed to doing maybe hardcore science, is that 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.520 like we can imagine these futures or kind of be 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.159 a little bit more radical with thinking about care based 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.400 relationships and what it means to have one on one 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:35.120 relationships with individual places and creatures and things like that. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.360 So yeah, I love that question. I don't know how 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.080 we bring more of that into like the real world, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.760 but that's what I would love to keep writing about 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.560 and see happening, you know. I it's so interesting to 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.720 me because I feel like we always tend to look 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.760 at the problem as being too big to be able 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.240 to imagine possibilities outside of what we can see. And 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:06.640 I think that the beauty of fiction writing, particularly around futurism, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:12.000 is giving a freedom, um to the reality that you 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.960 exist in as a PhD student, Like this is the reality, right, 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.639 and if I had the ability to imagine something different, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:25.240 something great, or something beyond fear right, which I think 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.080 is also something that you, um that is talked about 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.320 in in in your story is this you know, what 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:38.840 is fear? Um? And and how fear how fear is 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.840 translated differently among people. So I want to also like 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.840 ask you, you know, with your main characters and this 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:54.360 and this, um, what becomes a love story? UM? What 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.399 what was it about? You know? And trying not to 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.960 give too much away, but what is it about the 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.840 conversation around fear and around love that you felt necessary 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:12.120 for your peace? I love that question. UM. I think 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:17.240 personally I have me but like um, you know I was, 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.280 I have been going through unrequitted love. So identifying both 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.240 on the other on the um our male character side 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.439 of like you know, I loved this person for like 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.680 forever and you don't know it. And I think that 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.680 is also almost a metaphor for the the the sea 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.720 and the land and like having all of that love 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:44.320 for us um, and then my female character UM, just 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.520 chalk full of grief and rage and just like I'm 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.359 not I don't given like just like I'm not afraid 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.280 of anything because I've already lost it all. And so 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:59.480 I think, UM, kind of having these two clashing kind 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.800 of narrative between this hopeful romantic energy UM, and I 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.840 think that reflects some of of my own like hopeful 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.520 romantic energy for our futures and then this awful grief 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.119 and rage UM. And I feel like I've been in 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.640 that state for a while thinking about, you know, our 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.720 environmental futures. And so it's kind of a battle of 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:25.320 the two UM metaphorically and like big picture UM. And 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.919 so then the coming together at the end and the 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:35.200 having the ocean and her husband having passed away like 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.960 picking opehe so like him being a part of that 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.240 UM and having the ancestral realm and the spirit realm 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.080 and the ocean realm all kind of acknowledging that union 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:52.760 of both of those energies. I think big pictures kind 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.280 of telling for what we need both of those things 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.800 going forward, UM, in in our interactions with the environment 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.240 and with each other. So yeah, I don't know if 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:11.080 I answered that, no, you did, you did in the 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.480 stark reality of what we are being presented with, which 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.199 is catastrophe, right, like that is. I don't think that 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.399 I'm hyperbolic to say that when every hurricane, fire and 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:29.000 tornado season is more historic than the last, that we 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.280 are in a problematic zone. I don't think that it's 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.200 crazy that at the time of this recording, I woke 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.879 up to seventy two degree temperatures in New York on 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.600 November in November, right, and that is and that is 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.960 that has been the norm. It's my birthday month and 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.440 my birthday week. It has been the norm over the 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.360 last ten years. I don't remember wearing I haven't worn 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:57.840 a coat or a scar for anything on my birthday 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.879 for the last several years. Wow, Because it has been 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.880 roughly in the high sixties or seventies in November. So 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.440 when I when I say that, to say that, you know, 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.040 we're living at a time of great transformation. And I 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.000 guess I want to get a sense from you where 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.600 you live in a place that, in many people's minds, 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.800 right is the idealic you know, center of beauty and 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:33.439 of environmentalism and a forestry and waterfalls and rainbows and 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:38.160 all of these things. Are what are the sentiments, right, 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:45.119 the lived realities of a place that is both a 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.719 part of and removed from mainland. And so because of 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:55.280 being removed from mainland and situated in the sea, will 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.399 be the first part, you know, of the United States 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.040 outside of Florida and you know, in the Key and 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:07.760 the southern coastal regions to be adversely affected. Yeah, by 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.560 this great transformation that we're in. So can you give 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:17.720 us a perspective or some insight into what those feelings are? Yeah? No, 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:20.560 I love your I mean talking about New York being 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:24.399 seventy two degrees this morning, I'm like, oh my goodness, Yeah, 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:29.400 it's real, and yeah, I think you know, I struggle. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.480 I go back and forth because we are removed from 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.840 the mainland. We are very We're one of the most 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:38.280 isolated places in the world. We're surrounded by this amazing ocean, 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.440 which is both kind of a climate stabilizer, but then 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.960 we're also dealing with sea level rise. And then when 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:50.880 you put that like reality into conversation and combination with 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:56.080 the legacies of I don't want to say colonialism, but 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.520 the legacies of why Kiki used to be a wetland 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.120 like to be a marsh kind of area, and they 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.840 brought in sand. They continue to bring in sand to 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.240 make this little fairy tale place for tourists, which is 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.600 awesome that it's kind of concentrated in one place, it's everywhere. 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.760 But you know, um, when you do sea level rise 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:21.720 projections for Waikiki, it's that whole area. Um, you talk 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:26.800 about parking structures being underwater. And so we've dramatically altered, 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:31.840 altered these island spaces in ways that are not compatible, 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:36.919 are rigid and just not not right. And then we 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.440 put it into combination with things like we've got some 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:43.199 of the nations I think, um, I don't quote me 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:48.199 on this, but you know, thousands of cesspools which we 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:52.359 don't have centralized sewage treatment in a lot of places 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:56.080 in Hawaii. So then we're thinking about our groundwater resources 0:24:56.080 --> 0:25:01.040 and sea level rise an inundation of our ground water. Um. 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:03.600 And if we're talking about you know, rainfall, a lot 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.160 of people are on catchment here. So there's a lot 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:11.560 of like decentralized systems that I don't think are prepared 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:15.560 to to live in that future yet. And so being 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:18.479 in a way and being remote, I think we have 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.439 awesome opportunity, and like you said, it's kind of this 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:23.399 ideal place. I think we are one of the people 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:28.320 who people states in the US that are we have 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:32.840 a carbon neutrality goal trying to like start on this pathway. 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.480 But yeah, it's gonna be rough, and there's a lot 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:41.639 of um legacies and histories that are gonna contribute to 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:46.239 it being a really rough transition for sure. Yeah, so 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.720 it's not it's not as maybe ideal as maybe people 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:52.600 think it is. But yeah, and I think I mean 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.080 but that that you know that that's kind of the point. 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:58.520 And I'm so glad that you brought it to the 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:02.240 forefront because I think that oftentimes we look at these 0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:08.200 areas that mainland people in many countries go to visit, right, 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.240 and and think like, oh, it's a respite for them 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:15.760 from you know, the inundation of city life, mainland life, 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:19.000 you know, what have you. But we are not connecting 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.280 the dots when we're talking about climate change where we're 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:26.800 talking about the climate crisis to actual people, yeah, and 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:30.080 to how it is affecting actual people and how it 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:33.840 will ultimately affect all of us. And so I wonder, 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:40.000 like in your PhD program, um, you know, as and 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:43.880 your work with UM with the forestry. Like, as you're 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:50.440 looking at how we are dealing with these issues, do 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:58.400 you see any optimism? Yes, yeah, yes, yeah for sure. 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.919 And I think kind of going back to like the 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.080 creative writing lens, but then also the for street lens. 0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:08.720 I think for me, it's about looking backwards to look forward. 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:14.879 And so I am optimistic. I think, you know, the 0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:18.639 we've got some really great minds thinking together, and but 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.840 I think the shift that needs to happen that hasn't 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:27.840 happened yet maybe is I feel like it's easy to 0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:30.320 be like, oh, yeah, it's big corporations. I don't have 0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:35.400 control over it, like it's beyond me, or you know, 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:40.000 getting political will to make certain things happen, like getting 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:42.760 the funding for a sewage treatment plant or something like that, 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.399 or stopping before station that all of these issues are 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:50.000 very can be very abstract and even for like a 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:53.479 government agency or a nonprofit that's trying to tackle these issues. 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:58.800 And so thinking more on what is my kuliana, which 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:01.720 in Hawaiian is just you have a right but also 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.359 you have a privilege to something, but it's dependent on 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.640 hard to translate, but your responsibility and so I think 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:15.719 for me is kind of each person has a kuliana 0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:19.200 to something right, and so that's hard to do when 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.560 people are working forty hours a week and like they've 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:25.000 got their kids and bills and jobs, and but yeah, 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:28.600 I think it's gonna have to start on a much 0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:34.520 more individual, ancestral and place based kind of arena. And 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:36.440 then the question for people like me who work in 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:39.080