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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker and I'm

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Speaker 2: here with crime analyst Body Movin as always, and.

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Speaker 3: Our very own Courtney Armstrong is back in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, applause, big applause, big applause, and listen. We have

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Speaker 2: a stacked night of headlines that we're going to unpack

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Speaker 2: with our very favorite forensics expert and host of the

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Speaker 2: podcast Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan is with us tonight

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Speaker 2: to unpack the latest in all of these unsealed documents

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing now in the Idaho massacre. Please check

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Speaker 2: out the podcast all these documents that have now been

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Speaker 2: released by law Enforce Number one, number two. This mystery

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Speaker 2: on the mon Talk Yachts. We talked about it a

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Speaker 2: bit last week. Joseph is here to break down some

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Speaker 2: more of the details as well as this Travis Decker

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Speaker 2: case which is a hideous one, and Joseph has some

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Speaker 2: forensics and information to discuss on that one as well.

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Speaker 2: It is scientific Sunday, everybody, so buckle up, we want

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Speaker 2: to hear from you. Please jump in join the conversation

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Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime, or catch us on

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Speaker 2: our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram or

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Speaker 2: TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook, or you

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Speaker 2: could always leave us a talk back on our iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: Just download it.

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Speaker 2: It's free top right hand corner, press the button and boom,

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Speaker 2: you are on the show. We have so appreciated the

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Speaker 2: many messages that are coming in love it and you've

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Speaker 2: really been tipping us off to new cases.

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Speaker 3: And listen. We named the TV Screening.

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Speaker 2: Documentary Club last week while you were going Courtney, so

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Speaker 2: buckle up, you got some watching to do and and

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Speaker 2: we hope you all had a wonderful weekend. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for spending your Sunday night with us. Let's make it count,

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Speaker 2: so ladies, Joseph welcome.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 3: We're always happy to have you.

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Speaker 4: Joseph my favorite night of the week, That's.

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Speaker 3: What I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: And Joseph is back at school looking tan still And

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Speaker 2: by the way, Courtney Armstrong looking like the venus that

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Speaker 2: she is.

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Speaker 3: I know, and I'm like a lossy. I'm like, body,

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Speaker 3: you're perfect. But you know, Tan, we are not okay,

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Speaker 3: we are transient.

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Speaker 2: He listen, sunscreen is not a bad thing, but boy,

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Speaker 2: compared to these two, we are really out to lunch. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: welcome back, court and listen, where should we begin. Let's

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Speaker 2: throw Courtney Armstrong up to the bat with a headline Yes.

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Speaker 5: I'm so happy to be back, and of course we're

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Speaker 5: going to jump in with Gilaine Maxwell.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 5: So, the Justice Department has begun releasing transcripts of interviews

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Speaker 5: with Glane Maxwell. This is the first wave of the

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Speaker 5: Epstein files that have been sent over to the House

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Speaker 5: Oversight Committee.

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Speaker 6: So listen.

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Speaker 5: This is following congressional subpoenas and a bunch of public pressure. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: this has been talked about, asked about, conspiracy, theorized about.

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Speaker 5: But these records they offer new insights into the network

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Speaker 5: of the high profile individuals who are linked to Epstein

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Speaker 5: and the ongoing probes into his crimes. So this will

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Speaker 5: be coming out for a while. This is the first

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Speaker 5: batch of thousands of pages of Epstein related documents from

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Speaker 5: the DOJ. Yeah, so hundreds of pages have come out.

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Speaker 5: These are redacted transcripts and the audio from the interview

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Speaker 5: with Gilane Maxwell by Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche In it,

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Speaker 5: this did not suppose a recent interviews.

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Speaker 2: So the interview done like a week ago, you know,

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Speaker 2: So this is not the OG interviews perhaps, and obviously

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Speaker 2: we know the grand jury interview and anything that happened

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Speaker 2: in the Grand jury with the transcripts, et cetera that

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Speaker 2: has not been released. This is really her conversation a

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Speaker 2: little over a week ago, correct exactly.

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Speaker 5: And of course Maxwell's legal team and sish every question

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Speaker 5: was answered truthfull lee and that she remains a scapegoat

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Speaker 5: in the epstein.

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Speaker 6: That is what they are presenting.

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Speaker 5: She did describe interactions with people such as Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: and Clinton, but denied witnessing any inappropriate conduct. So we'll

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Speaker 5: be hearing more this interview. It lasted two days and

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Speaker 5: we'll kind of see what keeps coming out. I don't know,

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Speaker 5: do you guys expect anything big?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I do, and I again I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: on recorder saying I think this is one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest pieces of information that we're lacking that of our time.

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Speaker 2: So I know this is becoming drum that I'm beating

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Speaker 2: way too hard. And it seems as though as of

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Speaker 2: this weekend, you know, Giles Maxwell had an interview and

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Speaker 2: it seemed like, yeah, she was like, by no means

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Speaker 2: have I ever seen anything nefarious with the Clintons or

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Speaker 2: Bill Clinton specifically, or you know, President Donald Trump, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: But remember she got a really sweet situation right after

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Speaker 2: this interview. She basically was transferred from her where she

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Speaker 2: had been residing in prison for sex offense charges, and

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Speaker 2: now she's in a very cushy one. So yeah, she

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Speaker 2: basically said she didn't see anything and that everybody did

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Speaker 2: everything correctly, and yeah, nothing to see here. But again,

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Speaker 2: she might as well have said, to the person who

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Speaker 2: may pardon me, they're wonderful. To the person who may

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Speaker 2: pardon me, I did nothing wrong. To the person who

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Speaker 2: may pardon me, it was excellent.

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Speaker 7: The Clintons aren't aren't going to be involved in her

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Speaker 7: pardon and she said that they were great.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean maybe questionable.

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Speaker 2: I mean the amount of emails and hits that we

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Speaker 2: get on a daily basis about the Clinton's involvement in this,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty staggering.

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Speaker 3: Get we do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personally do as well. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I who knows, We don't know your speculation.

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Speaker 4: They asked her specifically, what do you think about Jeffrey

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Speaker 4: Epstein's death? And that was for me from the forensics perspective. Sure,

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Speaker 4: she thinks that he was murdered, you know, yeah, and

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Speaker 4: you know, and the other thing is she actually did

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Speaker 4: a little arithmetic in this thing. She actually said, well,

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Speaker 4: anybody in prison can be killed for commissary, you know,

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Speaker 4: whatever is available. So I think that, you know, do

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Speaker 4: you think that Jeffrey Epstein was killed and without hesitation?

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Speaker 4: You know? She she said, yeah, I do. So I

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Speaker 4: found that I found that to be kind of interesting

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Speaker 4: because that's kind of the angle that I coming all

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Speaker 4: of this from forensically, because I don't I don't buy

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Speaker 4: everything in the add tops sport that's what you're selling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean hard.

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Speaker 4: It justifies a lot of the basic principles you know,

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Speaker 4: that that we learn in medical legal death investigations. So

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I found that I found that kind

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Speaker 4: of interesting.

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Speaker 2: On my end, I thought it was an interesting toss

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Speaker 2: something to the wolves, right. It was like, oh, look, listen,

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Speaker 2: to this interview that you know, shows Gilaine herself saying, look,

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Speaker 2: how transparent we're all being internally here saying to you know,

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Speaker 2: Pambondi's number two that you know, nobody did anything wrong.

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Speaker 3: It was all actually all good in the hood.

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Speaker 2: And I think we all have a hard time believing

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Speaker 2: that the Clinton stuff, I mean, we have to imagine

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Speaker 2: that there seems to be logs and planes and things

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Speaker 2: that have happened. So for the tune to completely change

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Speaker 2: is interesting because it also worked.

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Speaker 3: You know, she was transferred very.

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Speaker 2: Quickly thereafter to a low security prison, whether that was

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Speaker 2: because of President Donald Trump, whether that was because of

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Speaker 2: first Lady, you know, Milania Trump has been kind of

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Speaker 2: brought into this conspiracy theories only the Clinton's always being

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Speaker 2: associated with this in some degree. So again it's not

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Speaker 2: political because it's a pox on many houses. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it seems like a change of tail. At one point,

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, she was convicted by a federal judge

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Speaker 2: that you know, she was convicted of sex crimes, and

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Speaker 2: suddenly we're like, oh, maybe not so much. And listen

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Speaker 2: to this little transcript from you know, just a few

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Speaker 2: days ago when she was hoping to get a pardon

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Speaker 2: and probably would say whatever she would have to is

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Speaker 2: my personal opinion. Come for me if you will, But

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Speaker 2: I think I'm not alone in this. It all feels

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Speaker 2: a little fishy sure, and continues to feel fishy like

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Speaker 2: even as we get more information. It seems so hyper

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Speaker 2: produced and not the information, and that we're all craving

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Speaker 2: which is this either said client list or whatever happened

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Speaker 2: back in the day, not back when Gilaine Maxwell wanted

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Speaker 2: to part in ten days ago.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 7: So well, we're going to continue to follow this. I'm

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Speaker 7: sure Stephanie is definitely going to keep her finger on

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Speaker 7: the pulse of what's happening in the Gallaine Maxwell document release.

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Speaker 7: This is True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio on Body Moved,

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Speaker 7: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Leidecker, and we

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Speaker 7: are so thankful to be joined by Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 7: a forensics expert for our scientific Sunday Deep Dive. And

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Speaker 7: in many different cases, I have an update on Emmanuel Harrow.

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Speaker 7: So we mentioned this last week. We covered this last

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Speaker 7: week the missing seven month old. The mother said she

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Speaker 7: was attacked basically at a Big five store in Versaide, County, California,

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Speaker 7: and they were arrested for his murder on Friday.

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Speaker 3: Now, so that's not.

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Speaker 7: A good turn of events, right, But I think we

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Speaker 7: all kind of suspected but she was maybe fibbing about

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Speaker 7: her story. It didn't make a lot of sense. And

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Speaker 7: you know, she said that a man basically attacked her

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Speaker 7: and said oh lah to her, you know, implying that

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Speaker 7: was some kind of you know, Spanish speaking person that

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Speaker 7: took their child. And there there was no evidence of

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Speaker 7: any of those things happening while they were arrested on Friday.

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Speaker 7: So Jacob Rebecca Harrow, they arrested on Friday at their

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Speaker 7: home on suspicion of murder. The investigator spent hours and

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Speaker 7: hours and hours searching the home and like the surrounding land, yeah,

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Speaker 7: big time, and they seized some vehicles. A manual remains missing,

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Speaker 7: but authorities do believe he has passed. What's kind of

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Speaker 7: interesting about this too, and it kind of reminds me

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Speaker 7: a little bit of, you know a little bit of

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Speaker 7: Casey Anthony, a little bit that it's being reported that

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Speaker 7: nobody has actually seen a manual for quite some time,

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Speaker 7: so like a month or more. So it is possible

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Speaker 7: that maybe am Manuel's passing happened a while ago, and

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Speaker 7: they took the opportunity recently to report it, you know,

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Speaker 7: quote unquote for whatever reason to the authorities, and came

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Speaker 7: up with the scheme that he was kidnapped from a

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Speaker 7: Big five store.

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Speaker 2: It's so sickening. By the way, it kind of also

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Speaker 2: reminds me of you know, Lori Valo that to Doomsday

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Speaker 2: Mom and you know that creep of a husband, Dave

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Speaker 2: Bell of hers, because again they were like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she was just here, and that it had been a

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Speaker 2: very long time that her children had been seen and

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Speaker 2: in this case a month.

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Speaker 3: That's like, that's not hideous.

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Speaker 2: It's not the exact amount of time, but it wasn't

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Speaker 2: you know, four days ago. You know, this was probably

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Speaker 2: longer than anticipated. And it's really horrifying.

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Speaker 7: So today, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office, I think

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Speaker 7: I might have said Riverside County earlier.

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Speaker 3: My mistake.

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Speaker 7: That's in relation to something else, but I'll get to

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Speaker 7: that in a second. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office

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Speaker 7: said today this afternoon, a search for Emmanuel Harrow was

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Speaker 7: conducted along the westbound Shoulder of the sixty Freeway near

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Speaker 7: Gilman Springs Road in Marino Valley. Investigators were assisted by

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Speaker 7: kadaver dogs. Jay Carrow was at the location with detectives,

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Speaker 7: so the dad was on site along the freeway to

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Speaker 7: telling them something. Right, and everyone is assuming maybe some

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Speaker 7: kind of dump sight, right, but the search has concluded

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Speaker 7: and Emmanuel was not located, is what the sand Ordino

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Speaker 7: kind of Shriff's office. But there's a separate recent child

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Speaker 7: abuse investigation happening in Marino Valley that has been eyed

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Speaker 7: to this and details. They have not got any details

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Speaker 7: on what those investigative details are, but you know, it

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Speaker 7: is kind of interesting a separate home in Marino Valley

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Speaker 7: tied to this.

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Speaker 4: I can I tell you real quickly what this case

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Speaker 4: smacks up with me is Harmony Montgomery.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, we just forgot about Harmony for a moment.

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Speaker 3: That's so right.

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Speaker 2: Tonight is scientific Sunday, So of course we have forensics

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Speaker 2: expert in star of the podcast Body Bags Man. He

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Speaker 2: does a lot of these body bags. If you haven't

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Speaker 2: heard the podcast yet, please check it out. It's brilliant

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Speaker 2: and you're so good, Joseph. So we're so happy that

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Speaker 2: you're here. Always with some torrid tales to tell. We

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Speaker 2: were just really talking about these recent developments in this

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Speaker 2: hideous case in California, and you had been mentioning go ahead,

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Speaker 2: I won't get the words right out of your mouth.

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Speaker 6: Go ahead.

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Speaker 4: We didn't mean to cut the case dropped into my lap.

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Speaker 4: In a shout out to my friends at Core TV,

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Speaker 4: I covered it. I don't know, for weeks we covered

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Speaker 4: this over and over, just looking for this baby.

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Speaker 5: And Joseph, can you remind me what the Montgomery case is?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Harmony. Harmony lived with her, was existing with her dad,

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Speaker 4: Adam Montcomy, and they were essentially living life. Now. If

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Speaker 4: you can imagine this in New Hampshire in the wintertime

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Speaker 4: in a convertible Chrysler Sea Breen, if you can just

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Speaker 4: imagine that he hit her regularly. This poor little girl

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Speaker 4: was blind in one eye already and had to wear

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Speaker 4: corrective lenses, and she had apparently had an accident in

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Speaker 4: the back seat and he struck her, and he made

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Speaker 4: some kind of off handed comment. It's like, I think I

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Speaker 4: really hurt her this time. The next thing you know,

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Speaker 4: he puts her into a Duffel bag or a gym bag,

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Speaker 4: and as they migrate around five years old. Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: completely depended upon help to exist. And she was actually

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Speaker 4: her remains were actually being hit in ceiling tiles. He

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Speaker 4: actually took her work where he was working in a

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Speaker 4: restaurant adjacent He put her in the cooler in there

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Speaker 4: for a time. And I'm not going to go into

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Speaker 4: the rest of grizzly details, but we believe that she

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Speaker 4: was finally deposited probably in the saltwater marshes around outside

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Speaker 4: of Revere, Massachusetts, across state lines in order to facilitate this.

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Speaker 4: He's off the street, he's in prison. But we still

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Speaker 4: don't know where harmony is. And that's that's my feeling

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Speaker 4: with this. This precious baby a manual you know where

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Speaker 4: is Is this going to be another Harmony Montgomery case?

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Speaker 4: And I find it very interesting. You guys had mentioned

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Speaker 4: they had the dad out there.

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Speaker 3: They did today.

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Speaker 4: That's a fascinating bit. You know, you don't see that

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Speaker 4: a lot.

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Speaker 3: They're turning on each other.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree. Stuff, Oh, I think mom.

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Speaker 2: And dad are done tho. They are turning on each

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Speaker 2: other and fighting for their lives. This is when it happened.

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Speaker 7: Well, dad has a really bad history with it, does

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Speaker 7: he abused his daughter and she's you know, permanently disabled now.

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Speaker 7: And you know, she showed up at the hospital when

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Speaker 7: she was just a little baby with broken ribs and

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Speaker 7: a hematoma, and like now she's blind and completely dependent

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Speaker 7: on her aunt who is lovingly taking care of her.

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Speaker 7: And you know, and it's just very sad. I don't

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Speaker 7: know that we're ever going to find Emmanuel.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: And you know what's weird about that too, what I

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Speaker 7: found out today too. Apparently the police in the Emmanuel

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Speaker 7: horror case, they left the crime scene, well what they

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Speaker 7: think is a crime scene, and you know, they're looking

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Speaker 7: for Emmanuel, and a bunch of TikTokers and YouTubers just

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Speaker 7: went into the house and started filming inside the house, which,

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Speaker 7: by the way, should be a crime scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and take off by the way. Yeah, why is

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Speaker 2: that even possible? How is that even possible that somebody

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Speaker 2: could just roam right in there, not just somebody, a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. Wow, Wow, that's going to be incredible.

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Speaker 3: And what do you guys think of this?

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Speaker 2: You know, obviously the Menendez brothers not just switch gears,

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Speaker 2: but you know, big developments there. You know, we broke

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Speaker 2: it here on Thursday that you know, Eric Menandez was

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Speaker 2: denied parole, which was very unexpected by many, and since

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Speaker 2: then on Friday, Lyle Menendez also has been denied. We're

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Speaker 2: going to do a very big unpath that tomorrow will

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Speaker 2: have Robert Rand back, who is the person who a

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Speaker 2: journalist wrote the book, wrote did the documentary, was there

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Speaker 2: from day one and you know, was with them through

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Speaker 2: this process. So there's plenty to talk about tomorrow, but

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Speaker 2: we just wanted to make sure that everybody was aware

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Speaker 2: of that new development.

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Speaker 7: Right, So they've both been to night parole and they

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Speaker 7: can reapply in what three years.

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Speaker 4: I think three.

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Speaker 2: Years is a long time if we were planning to

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Speaker 2: be home for Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 7: Well, I mean we're learning some information about some of

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Speaker 7: the things that they were doing in prison from the

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Speaker 7: parole board hearing, and you know, they weren't apparently these

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Speaker 7: perfect little angels that we've been hearing about.

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Speaker 5: We will get into all of that tomorrow and I'm

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Speaker 5: excited too with Robert Rand for sure, to dig.

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Speaker 6: Into the details.

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Speaker 5: One other headline that hit my desk was about Martha

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Speaker 5: Nolan Oslaterra's. Yeah, she was the one who was found

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Speaker 5: dead on the Hampton jat So New York police they're

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Speaker 5: investigating drug dealers, and this is after her death has

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Speaker 5: been very mysterious. She was discovered unconscious on this yacht

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Speaker 5: in Montalk. That happened on August fifth. She was pronounced

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Speaker 5: dead and the toxicology reports are not in and could

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Speaker 5: be a long way.

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Speaker 3: From now, months, three months from now possibly.

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Speaker 5: Which you know, and actually we wanted to ask you

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Speaker 5: about that, Joseph. I don't know how it could be

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Speaker 5: so long. And one other thing is that apparently that

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Speaker 5: while these results are waiting to come in, authorities are

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Speaker 5: potentially pursuing people who may have supplied drugs linked to

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Speaker 5: her death.

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Speaker 2: Which is huge, Like that's a really big ticket item.

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Speaker 2: By the way, So whether she was given drugs and

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Speaker 2: she was not aware of it, perhaps she was straight

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Speaker 2: up drugged and something was laced, but you know, just

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Speaker 2: to kind of reset the story was that she who

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Speaker 2: lives in New York typically, she was out on Montalk,

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Speaker 2: which is a very beautiful JEGI place on Long Island,

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Speaker 2: the very eastern tip, and she called her boyfriend, who

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Speaker 2: was out of town on business, basically told him that

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Speaker 2: she was leaving and hopping into an uber and heading

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Speaker 2: home after a business meeting, and then she turns up dead.

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Speaker 2: And she had been on this yacht with a man

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Speaker 2: who was basically screaming naked, running from the yacht begging

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Speaker 2: for help. He had apparently given two hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: to her to invest in her company. The company, by

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Speaker 2: the way, is no joke. It's like a real swimwear company.

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Speaker 2: She has her masters. She's from Ireland, about like, you know,

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Speaker 2: ninety miles or so outside of Dublin.

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Speaker 3: She has now lost her life.

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Speaker 2: Her family is begging for a second autopsy even before

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Speaker 2: the toxicology report comes in, which could take months.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, this.

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Speaker 2: Has like some larger nefarious details to it if in fact,

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Speaker 2: what Joseph had mentioned to us even last week that

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Speaker 2: maybe there was a b picture of drugs involved in

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Speaker 2: kind of a little bit like the Matthew Perry case

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Speaker 2: that we talked about, you know, where the ketamine queen

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Speaker 2: is kind of going down for supplying the lethal dose

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Speaker 2: that killed friend star of Matthew Perry. We also saw

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Speaker 2: that in the Kansas Chiefs. Remember there was that story

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Speaker 2: that we had told once before where buddies were outside celebrating.

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Speaker 2: They were Kansas chief fans Am I right about that.

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Speaker 6: Yep, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And like there were buds and they were in the

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Speaker 2: backyard and it was winter, and I guess they were

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Speaker 2: given drugs that had fentanyl in it and then they

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Speaker 2: passed out and died in the snow. And now the

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Speaker 2: person who supplied them is has been you know, found

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Speaker 2: and is up against some serious charges. And I guess

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Speaker 2: you know, Joseph, I assume that's where you're thinking this

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Speaker 2: may be heading.

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Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 4: Joseph, Yeah, I think that it is. And let me

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Speaker 4: throw one more thing into the mix. Here we're waiting

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Speaker 4: on talks. Here's something else I'm fascinating by. There were

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Speaker 4: two boats. You had Ripple, which she was on. They're

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Speaker 4: moored adjacent to one another, and then you had Helen.

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Speaker 4: A bucket was the other one. The hell in a

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Speaker 4: bucket looks to me it looked more like a vessel

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Speaker 4: that you would go offshore with and fish. The other one,

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Speaker 4: Ripple is more of a luxury kind of thing. At

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Speaker 4: any rate, I want to know what happened to the vessels.

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Speaker 4: I want to know who has those in their possession?

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Speaker 4: Are they going through them? No? Pun intended from stem

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Speaker 4: to stern and taking this thing apart. I want to

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Speaker 4: know what is in those non seen places. Have they

400
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Speaker 4: issued a warrant on those boats, taking them apart and

401
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Speaker 4: looked all the way through them? Because yes, the information

402
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 4: that talks will provide is going to be essential because

403
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 4: we can identify the specific agent that she has in

404
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Speaker 4: her system if it's co mingled with anything. A lot

405
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Speaker 4: of the dealers now, and you guys know this, it's

406
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Speaker 4: like I'm preaching the choir, but you've got a lot

407
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Speaker 4: of the dealers. They put bits of fentanyl in co

408
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 4: for instance, because it gives it more of a euphoric feeling,

409
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Speaker 4: gets the individual to want to come back for more.

410
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Speaker 4: And it's a horrible thing because fennyl is so incredibly lethal.

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Speaker 4: Well that's important, but also how did they get their

412
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Speaker 4: hands on it? Have any other drugs pass through this area?

413
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Speaker 4: The space, the space, it's all about the seeing, guys,

414
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Speaker 4: It's not just the body. The space is just as

415
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Speaker 4: important as the body. Not to diminish this precious woman,

416
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 4: but that space. If you want to tell the tale,

417
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Speaker 4: I want to know what was going on in on

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Speaker 4: hell in the bucket. I want to know what was

419
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Speaker 4: going on in Ripple and they're going to go through

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Speaker 4: this thing hopefully, hopefully they're in the possession of the authorities.

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Speaker 4: What struck me about this and what really got my

422
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Speaker 4: attention is that this isn't just the locals investigating this.

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Speaker 4: They put together a task force which actually involves the

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Speaker 4: New York State Police. I got to tell you where

425
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Speaker 4: Jason International Waters. I would not be surprised to see

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Speaker 4: the FEDS get involved in this. Coast guard.

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Speaker 7: Is this yacht club? Does it have I'm not familiar

428
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Speaker 7: with the geography of Long Island. Does it have access

429
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Speaker 7: to the Atlantic Ocean?

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Speaker 8: Oh?

431
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, It's.

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Speaker 3: Like is the Atlantic essentially?

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Speaker 2: I just wasn't And it's like, this is the really

434
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Speaker 2: like prestigious fancy spots Number one. It's about three three

435
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Speaker 2: and a half hours depending upon traffic from New York

436
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: City and socialites, very influential people from New York City.

437
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Speaker 2: They go there for the weekend and you know there's

438
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: you know, parties. This was where the infamous white parties

439
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: like that Whole Vibe, Oh that particular club, the mon Talk,

440
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: you know where this happened. This is really high profile

441
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 2: and it's completely on the water. And what's being speculated.

442
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 2: And I think, Joseph, this is what you're leading to,

443
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: is is it possible that one of these two boats

444
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: was you know, was maybe shipping drugs or was there

445
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: larger there. We are not saying that is the case.

446
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: This is just the chatter. And yeah, suff a county

447
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: police department. They're leaving no stone unturned, but they're also

448
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: calling in additional dogs from New York City. And to

449
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: your point, Joseph, it seems like that is getting pretty big.

450
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: Very quickly. Not going away.

451
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: Is the naked guy running through the you know, running

452
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: down the street, begging for help, saying his girlfriend is

453
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: you know, being unresponsive?

454
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 3: Are his girlfriend?

455
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 4: And not his girlfriend? No, not his girlfriend, not this

456
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 4: other thing. He's nude and she's clothed from what we're

457
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 4: hearing at least, So what's up with that dynamic. It's

458
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 4: a bizarre set of circumstances. And you know, we were

459
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 4: talking about this earlier today. No, there is not an

460
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: illicit agent out there that I would recommend anybody touching

461
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 4: with their bare hands. Okay, we have these horror stories

462
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 4: of these four police officers that go to serve a

463
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 4: warrant somewhere open up a trunk of a car and

464
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 4: a cloud a fentyl dust comes down. It is dentyl

465
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 4: is in fact transdermal, so that means you can touch it.

466
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 4: I wonder if that's what happened with her.

467
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 5: Listen, There's a lot to dig into, and we will

468
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 5: continue in following this as it evolves, and coming up,

469
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 5: we are going to have the latest with Brian Koberger

470
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 5: and the recent bodycam footage.

471
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: Keep it here True Crime tonight. Joseph, thank you for

472
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: breaking this down for us. We've gotten a lot of

473
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 2: emails and listener call ins and stuff just about whether

474
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: or not fentanyl. You know, again, we don't know the

475
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: specifics here. Her toxicology report has not come back. It

476
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: will take several weeks, if not months. Her family is

477
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: claiming that drugs were not in her life, and they're

478
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: demanding a second autopsy even before the toxicology comes back.

479
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: And I just think it's worth kind of underscoring because

480
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: this is scary stuff. I still don't totally understand why

481
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: fentanyl is in everything, Like, what's the upside? If you're

482
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: even a drug dealer, why would you be lacing things

483
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: with ventanyl? It doesn't totally make sense, But we do

484
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: know it's very, very deadly, and there's been a lot

485
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: of back and forth about can.

486
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 3: You, you know, breathe it in?

487
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: Is something like a cloud of ventanyl something that could

488
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: be lethal. And you mentioned it in the break Joseph,

489
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: that even meth you know, by touch, could actually have

490
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: real effects.

491
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

492
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, And it's something that shouldn't be poyed

493
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 4: with period into paragraph. You know, the fact that anyone

494
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: would go in and there they're actually I actually saw

495
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: a Rookie police officer one day pick up and this

496
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 4: is at the scene of a homicide pickup packs of

497
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 4: meth and was handling them bare handed, and then he

498
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 4: touches his face after he does this, and we ask

499
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 4: him to leave immediately from the scene. So I have

500
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: a real problem with anybody that wants to get into

501
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 4: semantics when it comes to illicit substances. I think that

502
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 4: you should be terrified of it. I mean, look, if

503
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 4: you want to run the risk of it and you

504
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: want to have an argument and a debate about it,

505
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 4: fine knock yourself out. But I got to tell you

506
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: I wouldn't spread that information around saying that it's not transdermal,

507
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 4: and I know the patches are different, but let's understand

508
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: Fentnall's first first administered through transdermal patches. All right, So

509
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 4: we need to be very very careful. Anybody that thinks

510
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 4: that it's around you need to take care. We had

511
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: these kids that died in this nursery thing and you

512
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 4: know in New York last year, they're crawling along the floor,

513
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 4: you know, little hands, touching your mouth, touching your face.

514
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 4: They died. They died in that house. So I don't know.

515
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 4: You can run the risk if you if you want to,

516
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: I'm advising nobody should run the risk.

517
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 2: Yeah anything, Well no, but even like you say that, Joseph,

518
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: you know that example you just gave of touching meth

519
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: with bare hands and then touching your face. What does

520
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: that mean, Like by touching your face, it could what happens.

521
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: Yes, transdermal, So it's absorbed through the skin and it goes,

522
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 4: it goes, It is absorbed and it's metabolized at that

523
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 4: point in time. So it's not the same as if

524
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: you ingest it necessarily, but you're running a risk. Okay,

525
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 4: you won't get as high dosage necessarily, but as if

526
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 4: you've dropped it directly into your mouth, but it's still

527
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 4: a risky behavior. And plus if you have underlying medical

528
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 4: conditions or if you're little, if you're a child, you

529
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 4: know it can be very lethal. I mean you might run.

530
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: You might have better luck being in a room with

531
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 4: a rattlesnake as opposed to this stuff. Because you don't

532
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 4: know where it's being made. It's being made all over

533
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: the world. You don't know what the formula is, so

534
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 4: some can certainly be more toxic than others. We've seen

535
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 4: that played out in the medical legal world. So you

536
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: need to take care. And at the end of the day,

537
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: as far as Montalk is concerned, I'm still interested what

538
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: she had in her system. I don't know that it

539
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: was fentanyl, but could it be and how did she

540
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 4: get it on board? And if it is there, we'll

541
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: find out when the talk drops, and it will take

542
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 4: some time because.

543
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: It does seem like everybody I've heard from who has

544
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: had any experience in law enforcement always say that cocaine,

545
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: any of the drugs of yesteryear, they're all seemingly laced

546
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: with fentanyl. Like it's not the time to play, it's

547
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: not the time to experiment. Like those days are done,

548
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: and I don't know that people really understand it, don't.

549
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 7: They sell those ventanyl test strips now on like Amazon

550
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 7: and listen, if you're going to be, you know, messing around,

551
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 7: I don't think you should. But if you do have

552
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 7: a problem, they do sell those test strips now where

553
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 7: you can test substances.

554
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 3: I know that sounds crazy, but no, it makes sense.

555
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 2: I don't want to people no drinking out of solo

556
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: cups anywhere at any time to any college student people

557
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: are going back to school. That cannot be underscored enough either.

558
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: But to that end, if you had fentanyl, does what

559
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: is it narco? What is it called that narkhan narcn

560
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: does narcan save a person on fentanyl?

561
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 4: Uh? It would depend upon how quickly you can dose

562
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: them with it.

563
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'd think a couple of shots might save somebody's life.

564
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: Right if if, if you have it available, and you

565
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: know most most police officers have access to it now

566
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: because this is such an insidious problem, just frame frame

567
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: it out this way. You've got such an insidious problem

568
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 4: in this country with this particular drug that now police

569
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 4: officers are having to carry narcan. This is something that

570
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: would have been twenty years ago, unheard of, absolutely unheard of.

571
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 4: This is the world that we're in now with this

572
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 4: poison that is everywhere.

573
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 5: Well said, well scary stuff. Well listen, this is true

574
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 5: crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. This is are no

575
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 5: joke PSA of the night. Be careful out there, careful,

576
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 5: dangerous world. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm here as always with

577
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 5: Buddy Movin and Stephanie Leidecker, and of course we have

578
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 5: forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan who is regalling us with

579
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 5: all of this wonderful forensic and scientific information. We are

580
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 5: going to pivot to talk about the Idaho student murder

581
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 5: case and everything that has been going on. We want

582
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 5: you to join the conversation. It is on the talkback,

583
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 5: So give us a call eighty eight three to one

584
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 5: Crime and we have a talkback right now.

585
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: Hi, ladies, it's Leah in Australia.

586
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 9: I've started watching The Son of Sam Taps and it's

587
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 9: just infuriating to me because I can see the parallels

588
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 9: with Brian karen Berger. How you know, forty years later,

589
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 9: we're still facing the same issues around misogyny and these

590
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 9: guys that appear angry. How are we not doing more

591
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 9: about it? If we can track terror cells, why can't

592
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 9: we track these guys to day and age?

593
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: Isn't that the truth? Well?

594
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 7: So Son of Sam, by the way, is our first

595
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 7: watch party documentary to watch right for our true crime

596
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 7: and chill on Wednesdays.

597
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: I think we're going to be doing it.

598
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: So this Wednesday, we all have to watch Son of

599
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: Sam on Netflix by Wednesday to thoughtfully participate in the discussion. Joseph,

600
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: will you be watching as well? I assume I already

601
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: started not to be a show off.

602
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 3: But I'm knee deep. I'm knee deep, so I'm looking

603
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: to be the star pupil.

604
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: This you are, you are already ahead of the curve.

605
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 7: Okay, So I haven't started watching it yet, but you know,

606
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 7: our talk back mentioned that there was correlations between David Berkowitz,

607
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 7: who is the son of Sam, and he was a

608
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 7: serial killer out of New York in the late seventies

609
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 7: I think it was late seventies, any and there's correlations

610
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 7: between him and Brian Coberger. I didn't know that. Well,

611
00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 7: there's person.

612
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: That's what I mean in our caller is completely right

613
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: because by the way, Australia.

614
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: I shout out way to go, shout out to Australia

615
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: as a whole. By the way as a whole.

616
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: But it's true, like from a personality perspective, it's undeniable

617
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: that there is some crossover. By the way, unfun facts,

618
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong's beloved mom was pregnant with Courtney during this

619
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 2: Son of Sam time in Queens, New York. It's right,

620
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: you know, so first we should have her on to

621
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: talk about it. Betty on Wednesday? Is Betty available on Wednesday?

622
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: Can we book her?

623
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 5: Not for that late at night? Absolutely? Betty goes to

624
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 5: bed at about eight thirty, Betty, can we make so

625
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 5: we might sort something out. Let's see, let's snuck it out.

626
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 4: Let's talk about row. You wrote out the Great Blackout.

627
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, but that's right.

628
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: So yeah, my mom, it was wild that just blackouts

629
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 5: and brownouts that all summer. And it was right in Queens.

630
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 5: It was hot, so everyone was out on there. We

631
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 5: were always everyone out on their stoop and Queens and

632
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 5: so there anyway, everyone was just out Sam excited.

633
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 7: I'm excited to learn more about Son of Sam. I mean,

634
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 7: I know, like the bare minimum of David Berkowitz, you know,

635
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 7: like the talking dog. He was saying that, you know,

636
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 7: he's this dog was telling him to do it, and

637
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 7: you know he was the devil or something and.

638
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 4: It is.

639
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, sit down something like that.

640
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

641
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 4: I was like before he was called the son of Sam.

642
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: No what forty four caliber killer caliber bulldog. Yeah, that's right, revolver.

643
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 7: Yeah right, Well it's going to be it's going to

644
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 7: be a good it's going to be a good watch.

645
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 7: I can't wait to learn more about it. And hopefully

646
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 7: Courtney Betty will be available because that would.

647
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: Be quite It's time. It's going to be a late night.

648
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 2: But let's rally.

649
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: And by the way, it's.

650
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: Sunday night, guys, Like, what is happening you guys haven't

651
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: even started the watch party yet.

652
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: Well, we have a couple of nights.

653
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 6: I know, I'm behind the curve.

654
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 7: I get one day all the way.

655
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: How can I work in these conditions? So do I

656
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: I have no days.

657
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: Off this week, but I'm making it a priority.

658
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 7: I'm lazy and I slept.

659
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: I slept all day yesterday.

660
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 7: I'm using Sundays for sleeping and I went in my

661
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 7: nails today so I had so time.

662
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: They look really beautiful. Oh beautiful, beautiful.

663
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 7: So I just haven't had time yet, but I'm going

664
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 7: to turn it on tomorrow. And I don't know, are

665
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 7: we watching the all episodes? Is that what you're doing?

666
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 7: This was your idea? I know, But why did I

667
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 7: spend my weekend doing this? Well, because you're a.

668
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: Supporter, right and head of the class which one time

669
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: of Star Pupil one time Joseph and by the Star

670
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: Pupil this one time, yes, on Sunday night. Okay, Well,

671
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: moving on to more, you know, more pertinent things back

672
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: I guess to this Idaho.

673
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 7: Well, I've only got a minute left, so I don't

674
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 7: really you know, I can't.

675
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 3: There's not a lot I can say.

676
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 7: But what I am going to be talking about next

677
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 7: I can tell you that is, we got some details

678
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 7: about some of the testing that the Idaho State Police

679
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 7: did to determine how long it would have taken to

680
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 7: Committee's killings, and the path he took throughout the house,

681
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 7: which we already knew about the path, but we're going

682
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 7: to go over it anyway because there might be people

683
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 7: new to the case that might not know. So we're

684
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 7: going to dig into the path he took throughout the

685
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 7: house and the testing that the Idaho State Police did

686
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 7: to determine if it could be ton in the thirteen

687
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 7: minutes that he was in the house, and the answer

688
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 7: is yes, it could.

689
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 3: It's staggering information coming up. Yeah, oh man, you pack

690
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: the body cam footage too.

691
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's exactly right.

692
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 5: And we are also going to be discussing potentially why

693
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 5: he was in the house longer than necessary. That something

694
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 5: people are battering about. We would love you to join

695
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 5: the conversation eight at eight three, One Crime, Keep it here,

696
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 5: True Crime tonight.

697
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 3: Let's go to a talk back right now.

698
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 8: Hey, y'all, this is Sylvia again from I am listening

699
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 8: to the replay of last night's show, and I just

700
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 8: have to give you guys major props for handling all

701
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 8: of that breaking news just coming at you in every direction.

702
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 8: You handled it with so much grace and poise and

703
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 8: just mastered it. It's already hard what you guys do,

704
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 8: so I can't imagine having all of that information thrown

705
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 8: at you at once. So I just want to give

706
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 8: you major props. I am such a huge fan, so

707
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 8: thank you for all you do.

708
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 7: That's okay, body who paid her?

709
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got. That was so kind.

710
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 7: I am that was a wild night, that was it was.

711
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: That was a crazy night.

712
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 6: You guys handling it wonderfully.

713
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: That was night. But thank you so much for that

714
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: talk back. That was so hotful.

715
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 7: I have imposter syndrome pretty terribly, we all, I mean

716
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 7: like pretty terribly. And you know I am not an

717
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 7: expert in anything.

718
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: So stop saying that is so untrue.

719
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 7: Well know what I mean is I know a lot

720
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 7: about a ton of stuff, but not an expert anything.

721
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 7: I'm not downing myself. I'm just saying, like, it's nice

722
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 7: to be complimented because I have a little bit of

723
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 7: imposter syndrome, so that means a lot to me.

724
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, for real, I'm not even kidding. We

725
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: went to sleep that night. We were both like it

726
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: was a fever dream.

727
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what just happened, but that was a

728
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: two hour blink of hopefully, you know, hopefully.

729
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, thank you for the thoughtful note.

730
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 7: No, that was really nice. I mean there was a

731
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 7: lot going on at the Menendez. We had the Menendas

732
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 7: that was the thing, and then we had the Idaho

733
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 7: bodycam footage and we got you know, like three hundred

734
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 7: more pictures.

735
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: From Ida pictures are really I gotta be honest, those

736
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: pictures are troubling.

737
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 3: I don't know where I sit with this. Listen.

738
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm very close to this case, like everyone on this

739
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: panel is. Please, I hope you'll listen to the podcast

740
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: The Idaho Massacre of season three. Everyone here is also

741
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: on it and does extraordinary reporting and work.

742
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: But we're close to it, right.

743
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: So on the one hand, you want to see everything,

744
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 2: and I'm somebody who's curious, so I always I know,

745
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm not particularly squeamish either, So autopsy photos, crime scene photos,

746
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 2: you know, we see so many of them, and it

747
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: doesn't usually stop me in my tracks. And for I

748
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 2: don't know if it's because the family has some reservations

749
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: about it. I'm not sure. It almost felt like a

750
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: snuff film to me. It was actually triggering and too much,

751
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: and I felt like I was seeing things or have

752
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 2: now seen all the things that I'm kind of not.

753
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: Sure that I should have.

754
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: So I say that out loud to listeners too, like

755
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: you know, tread lightly on that.

756
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's a good.

757
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 7: It's really good because you know some people will be,

758
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 7: you know, emotionally affected by these pictures right, and I

759
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 7: think all of us have in some way been emotionally effective.

760
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 7: And you know, the family of Matty Mogan and I

761
00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 7: believe of Ethan Chapin's family have filed an injunction related

762
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 7: to those pictures of you know, the privacy concerns in

763
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 7: regards to Maddie's room, in Zanna's room. So the photos

764
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 7: that we and the body cam footage did a really

765
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 7: good job of not showing anything gruesome at all. And

766
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 7: I and I kind of wonder in the back of

767
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 7: my mind that this is going to change the way

768
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 7: the public gets informed about these these these kinds of things,

769
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 7: because normally we've we've gotten full pictures right in a

770
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 7: lot of different cases. And this injunction, this injunction might

771
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 7: change things, and it might change the way true crime

772
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 7: is handled when it comes to digital evidence in digital

773
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 7: media that we get.

774
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 4: I agree, I agree completely. A big case that changed

775
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 4: a lot of the stuff was in Florida was the

776
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 4: Dale Earnhardt case. His wife fought tooth and nail to

777
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 4: keep all of that data out of the public sphere.

778
00:40:50,640 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: And that's how to ripple effect.

779
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: Not to switch gears to more hideous thoughts, but you know, listen,

780
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 2: there's a couple of big ticket things that have happened

781
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: over the weekend. We know that since we've all spoken

782
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: last Lyle Menendez, the second brother, was also denied parole

783
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: and pretty major. We're going to unpack that in a

784
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: very big way tomorrow when Robert Rant joins us again

785
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 2: to discuss sort of what is happening in this Menndez case.

786
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: And then Courtney, what did you want to jump to?

787
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 5: So first of all, it's a trigger warning, so we're

788
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 5: about to speak about some of specificity with violence against children.

789
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 5: So if that is a trigger for you, or if

790
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 5: there are young children in your presence, it's a good

791
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 5: time to turn it down for a couple of minutes.

792
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 3: This should have been turned down a while ago.

793
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 5: Well children, yeah, it's.

794
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: Probably turned down.

795
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 5: This is particularly extra terrible. But this, yeah, again, so

796
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 5: trigger warning, violence against children. So we haven't followed this

797
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 5: case since its inception, and that is with Travis Decker.

798
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 5: And Travis Decker is the US Army veteran. He's been

799
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 5: accused of murdering his three young daughters and that happened

800
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 5: at a campsite, a remote campsite back in June. Despite

801
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 5: all this intensive looking for him, state, local, federal agencies.

802
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 5: There are no leads right now of where he could be.

803
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 5: So there is new DNA evidence and new information from

804
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 5: the crime scene that ties fugitive father Travis Decker as

805
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 5: the solo suspect in the murder of his three daughters.

806
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 5: And we're going to let our forensic expert Joseph Scott

807
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 5: Morgan give a little more detail.

808
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

809
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, this information dropped this past week and it really

810
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 4: caught my attention because they were talking about DNA deposition

811
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 4: and this is not, in my opinion, just merely touched DNA.

812
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 4: All right, where are you get skin cells that slough

813
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 4: off that sort of thing? For me, they had it

814
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: sounded as though that they had a robust sampling, and

815
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 4: that means I think, in my opinion, this could come

816
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 4: from maybe sweat. Perhaps I'm not really sure, but that's

817
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 4: that's what I'm betting on. They found his DNA, Decker's

818
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 4: DNA directly on zip ties that had been used to

819
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: bind these precious little babies. Let that sink in. And

820
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 4: they also found DNA on these bags that were the

821
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 4: actual method of homicide here. And this is an oxygen

822
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: deprivation death. These bags were apparently placed over these babies heads.

823
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 4: Two of the children had been double bag, a third

824
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 4: was triple bag. And they found more these bags at

825
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: the scenes. And I get the impression from what I'm

826
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: hearing that these are like plastic shopping bags, and as

827
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 4: any of us can identify with structurally, most of them

828
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 4: are garbage. You know you if you you'll they split

829
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 4: really easy. And so this goes to I think, because

830
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 4: he was using multiple bags, he's thinking about this. He's

831
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: he's saying, how can I most efficiently do this? So

832
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 4: he's like layering the bags. Now, where's the DNA come from? Well,

833
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 4: I think he's probably sweating profusely and he's having to

834
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 4: specifically contact these bags to hold them in place after

835
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: they've been bound. This is what I want everybody to do.

836
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 4: Think about if you've ever had something that may be

837
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 4: lost in your throat and you're trying to clear your airway,

838
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: natural response is to bring your hands up to your face.

839
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 4: These babies were incapable of doing that. They're bound, So

840
00:44:53,080 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 4: this is yeah, because they're they're they're they're not capable

841
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 4: of doing that. So I don't know if he I

842
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 4: have no idea what this person was thinking, if he

843
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 4: thought he was going to be merciful, that this was

844
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 4: going to this was not in any way that there

845
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 4: have been people that have been tortured in this method

846
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: over the years. And one interesting thing is that with

847
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 4: his background in the military, he should have knowledge of this,

848
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 4: particularly if he had ever gone through like scaping in

849
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: invasion training where they put you in a situation where

850
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 4: you're a pow. He knows this because in that training

851
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 4: you're bound. Sometimes they'll put bags over your head and

852
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 4: so that that kicks it up to another level here.

853
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 4: So if you think about being in a small space

854
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 4: and you're you have breathed up all of the oxygen

855
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 4: in that small space, you begin to rebreathe or take

856
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 4: in your own carbon dioxide and it's toxic and Telly god,

857
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 4: I don't I think that there would have been a

858
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 4: mighty struggle on these four angels. Well, that would have taken.

859
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 7: Place, and you know, not to only not to only

860
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 7: drive the horror home. But that does this mean that

861
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 7: the other sisters saw also?

862
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 4: That's yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, no,

863
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 4: it does mean.

864
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 3: That kind of like Chris Watts, that's exactly.

865
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: What it means exactly like, you don't do this.

866
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: Three at a time. And again, this was a veteran

867
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: who was dealing with mental illness. The fact that his

868
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 2: mother has to actually know these details is also so

869
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: disgusting and it's awful, awful, like what happened to this person?

870
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: Like they were in a co parenting scenario that was working.

871
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: He was not living in a place that was safe.

872
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: Mom raised her hand and really said she felt like

873
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: her kids were not going to be in good care.

874
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 2: And she got a big zero. And these are the

875
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: details that we're hearing right now. And I don't know,

876
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 2: I just whatever reason, it's upset.

877
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: It's a hitting upsetting.

878
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: And can I just say one little thing about him

879
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 4: in this This takes me back in time. I was

880
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 4: part of the investigation in the Olympic Park bombing and

881
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 4: back in the Olympics in nineteen ninety six in Atlanta,

882
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 4: and I worked the one direct blast fatality that we had.

883
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 4: She was a school teacher and I was vested in

884
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 4: that case from the crime scene to the more relative

885
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 4: to her, I'll never forget. Her name is Alice Hawthorne.

886
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 4: And the reason this parkens me back to that time

887
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 4: is that Eric Rudolf fled after that, and I'm an

888
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: army veteran, all right, He's an army veteran. This guy's

889
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 4: apparently an army veteran. And Eric Rudolf eluded for almost

890
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 4: five years. He was in the Blue Rich Mountains. He

891
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 4: was actually when they discovered him. He was digging in

892
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 4: a dumpster in a North Carolina out behind a North

893
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 4: Carolina convenience store. And it was a country deputy that

894
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 4: found him that night. So there's a lot of people

895
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 4: saying they think that Decker is dead. Maybe he is.

896
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 4: I have no idea, but.

897
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 3: He was also planning to go to Canada and that's

898
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 3: probably where he is.

899
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: And if he's at large and still alive, then he's

900
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: extremely dangerous because he's off of his medication. He had

901
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with several things. He was not taking his medication,

902
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: which may have been part of the problem. Certainly does

903
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: not have access to that any longer. His poor sweet mother,

904
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 2: the mother who basically did everything by the book, had

905
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: to get up there and give a eulogy about her

906
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: three beauty no her the children's mother. I'm her first name.

907
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: It's a snaping rate net right now. But if you

908
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: listen to her eulogy. It is like the image of

909
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: bravery and class and elegance, and there is no greater sorrow,

910
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: and still he's this guy. There's no answers, and in fact,

911
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: there's only more nightmares being added to that.

912
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 7: Yes, right, well, you know this, Hopefully we get some

913
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 7: kind of ending to this. Hopefully Travis Decker is apprehended

914
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 7: and punished for his crimes. You know, I hate to

915
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 7: think that he's just out there living life, right and

916
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 7: after doing this to these poor kids.

917
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 5: The US Marshals, the US Marshall Service is offering a

918
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 5: reward of up to twenty thousand dollars for any new

919
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 5: information that could lead to this man, Travis Decker's arrest.

920
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 7: So yeah, follow that on Twitter, get his picture, burn

921
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 7: it into your mind. If you see him, call the authorities.

922
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 7: You're listening to True Crime Tonight, where we talk true

923
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 7: crime all the time. I'm body moving and I'm here

924
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 7: with Stephanie Leid Decker, Courtney Armstrong and our favorite forensic expert,

925
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 7: Joseph Scott Morgan, and we've been talking about Travis Decker.

926
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 7: We're going to shift a little bit because that is

927
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 7: just so depressing, right, we're all kind of just like

928
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 7: now we're down to the dumps and we're gonna take

929
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 7: a talk back.

930
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 3: Let's let's hit it up.

931
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 10: Hey girl, Oh, I'm marching be body cam footage that

932
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 10: talked about, and I had question why the roommate waited

933
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 10: so long to call the police. Like I'm only on

934
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 10: like a minute eight of this video, but she's saying

935
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 10: that she heard someone, she saw someone screaming, crying. I

936
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 10: still don't understand why she did not call the police immediately.

937
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 10: I don't know if you know anything about that.

938
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 3: I can take that.

939
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, it's a little bit speculative, right, and

940
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: body you jump in right after because I think you

941
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: know again, this is also one of those bodycam pieces

942
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: that I wish I hadn't seen. It's so real and

943
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: almost too hard to wrap your brain around this the

944
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: everyone's realizing things for the very first time.

945
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 3: My interpretation of the bodycam footage.

946
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: So we should discuss this is that the surviving roommate

947
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: and we know this. You know, they had heard stuff.

948
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: They were a little spooked. But again, this was a

949
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: really active house. It's it's feet from a fraternity house, right,

950
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: there's houses on top of houses. You know, you're not

951
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 2: the one that's always going to be calling the comps

952
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 2: because you hear noises in the house when there's in

953
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 2: and out traffic. Dogs, This parties keep heads sliding doors,

954
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: big doors, staircases. Like it's one of those houses that

955
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 2: you get accustomed to hearing sounds.

956
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 3: Right, So we know that.

957
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: The two surviving roommates were a little spooked and they

958
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 2: went to sleep, and maybe they were realizing it all

959
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: real time. After the fact, you're like, oh my god, right,

960
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: I did see it, guy, Oh my goodness. I yeah,

961
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 2: he was in black and oh, you know, I think

962
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: we're seeing her realizing things real full time. And it's

963
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: actually like it kind of also, I'm sorry to get weird.

964
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: It kind of was hard for me to watch entirely

965
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 2: because you could hear it, like she it's sinking in.

966
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: It's like somighty sense of like hours prior which to

967
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,479
Speaker 2: answer their question is it's a tough one, right, Like yeah,

968
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: you think they're not beating themselves up the survivor's guilt

969
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: of this, Yeah, Like they probably had that feeling and

970
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: like so many of us ignore it and just wish

971
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: it away.

972
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 3: Oh it's nothing.

973
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: That's silly, don't That's exactly what Bethany said Dylan.

974
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 3: Dylan is so upsetting.

975
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 7: Dylan is saying, I saw this guy, you know, and

976
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 7: and Bethany in the text messages is literally talking her

977
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 7: out of it, like Xana was wearing all black. And

978
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 7: then Bethany in the Idaho State Police reports, we know

979
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 7: Bethany tells the police, Yeah, I told Dylan she probably

980
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 7: imagined it exactly.

981
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: You know.

982
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 7: So they're not going to they're not going to bed

983
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 7: on the first floor thinking that their roommates have been murdered. No,

984
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 7: they're thinking they've been drinking and hallucinating, and when they

985
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 7: wake up and nobody's answering, they're they're like, oh my god,

986
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 7: wait a minute.

987
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 2: Exactly even in the morning, they're texting them like are

988
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: you up?

989
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 6: Are you up? Are you up?

990
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: They don't think they're dead.

991
00:52:58,600 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 6: You don't.

992
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: Your brain does not go to, oh, my family's being

993
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: murdered or my best friends are being slaughtered right now.

994
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 3: It's not the obvious next connective dot. You know, you're

995
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 3: thinking they're partying and drinking and like maybe they're hooking

996
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: up or there's some random guy that's like, we're in

997
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 3: a weird costume, they're in college, they're in a party environment.

998
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I got to say about this stuff. You

999
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 4: and I have worked together for a long time now,

1000
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 4: and you've heard me say this before in it applause.

1001
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 4: You're trying to make sense of the abnormal in the

1002
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 4: context of the normal.

1003
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, this Brian Coburger craziness. All of these unsealed documents

1004
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 2: from law enforcement are. They're harrowing, they're riveting, they're important,

1005
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 2: they're disturbing. So some of it is a little triggery.

1006
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: So we're going to do this as delicately as possible.

1007
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 3: But first let's go.

1008
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 4: To a talkback.

1009
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 3: Jess Cropper here from Newfoutland, Canada. Rember.

1010
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 11: Watching the Bundy tape and knowing that Bkay was a fan,

1011
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 11: he it was interesting to see that Bundy went into

1012
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 11: a sorority I think it was between three and four

1013
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 11: in the morning, attacked for women, and then proceeded to

1014
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 11: go to off campus housing and continue to attack.

1015
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty interesting.

1016
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, the Kyomega, right, that's Kyomega out of in Florida,

1017
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 7: And you know he actually ended up killing a twelve

1018
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 7: year old after that, his final killing and why he

1019
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 7: received the death penalty in Florida and was sent to

1020
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 7: the electric chair. And yeah, there's been long comparisons made

1021
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 7: between Brian Coberger and Ted Bundy because of the targets

1022
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 7: in Florida and of course Brian Coberger's victims in Idaho.

1023
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 4: You know.

1024
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 7: The thing is, though, is that he left survivors. He

1025
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 7: left a couple of survivors in Florida.

1026
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 2: But thank God, thank God, thank goodness, and I'm so

1027
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: grateful that they survived this fresh with death and including

1028
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: the door dash driver who you know, really did see

1029
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 2: him and walk right past him. I'd be curious too,

1030
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: and this is for a different day. But something I'm

1031
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 2: personally working on is what are all the influences.

1032
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 3: That this guy had? Right, So it's bunsy.

1033
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: We know that there's several pieces of his air quotes

1034
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: plan that seemed to be influenced by the other serial

1035
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 2: killers that he was clearly based on his phone that

1036
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: he was obsessed with, right So you know, we know

1037
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 2: on Christmas Day he was you know, looking into about

1038
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: twenty serial killers, so this was in his mind.

1039
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 3: He was obviously studying it as well well.

1040
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: By that time the program though, Yeah, I know that's

1041
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: not an excuse and not an excuse, but it's sort

1042
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 2: of like, if you're putting together this tapestry of sickoness,

1043
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: you know, what were the nods that he was leaning

1044
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: into to become this monster?

1045
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 3: You know?

1046
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: It was long talked about and there's really nothing to this,

1047
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: but it does serve maybe as like an emotional thing

1048
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: of one of his sisters was in a horror flick

1049
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: and it was sort of a slasher movie right where

1050
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: the plane was just before you know, X miss vacation,

1051
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: you know X amount of co eds go out into

1052
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: the wilderness and not all of them come back alive. Again,

1053
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: these are like imprints. We had talked to that guy, Courtney,

1054
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: you were with me? Steve Hodell absolutely, Oh, he's so interesting,

1055
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: maybe one of the more interesting people I've ever spoken to.

1056
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: He believes that his father is the Zodiac Killer and

1057
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: also the killer of the Uh why am I spacing

1058
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:30,919
Speaker 2: on the old time woman?

1059
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

1060
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 3: Dalia, the Black Salia.

1061
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: He was also a Los Angeles detective, and what he

1062
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 2: really speaks to is mental imprints, things that are kind

1063
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: of passing thoughts that stick in our heads, that become

1064
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 2: these sort of moments of things So whether you're watching

1065
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: the Bundy tapes or listening to them or seeing a

1066
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 2: slasher film that when you were younger that your sister

1067
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: was in, Like not that any of it really is substantive,

1068
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: but like as a collective, there may be things to

1069
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 2: point to And I don't know. And on the other

1070
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 2: side of that, I'm like, he gets no say and

1071
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm sick of talking about him. So it's somewhere in between,

1072
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: you know, I don't I don't know what the right

1073
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: answer is.

1074
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 7: I don't either, but yeah, So the Gainesville Ripper Danny

1075
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 7: Rollins is one that he was kind of looking at

1076
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 7: on Christmas Day. Ted Bundy, of course, is the talkback

1077
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 7: so eloquently stated with the Kyomega killings. You know, there's

1078
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 7: a lot of connective tissue a BTK in my opinion.

1079
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 7: You know, we have the Kathlyn Ramslan connection plus BTK.

1080
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 7: His first kill was for people. There's a lot of

1081
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 7: connective tissue. And there's also like this possible gains not

1082
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 7: Gainesville Green River killer situation. So there's a lot of

1083
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 7: things that I think maybe he took or maybe it's

1084
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 7: just completely random and it's not related at all.

1085
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 5: We don't know, and Scott Bond is another and this

1086
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 5: is particularly to the talkback we just got, but totally random,

1087
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 5: by the way, shout out to new film in Newfoundland.

1088
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 5: I'm reading The Shift the shipping news if anyone's read it.

1089
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 5: It's beautiful book, all set there anyway, so it's.

1090
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 6: A present on my mind.

1091
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 4: Book.

1092
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 6: What is that book?

1093
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 5: It's a full surprise winning book. It's it's just a

1094
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 5: beautiful it's a journey, but it really paints the picture

1095
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 5: of the new fees.

1096
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 6: I digress.

1097
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 5: What I was going to say to our listener is

1098
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 5: in season two of The Idaho Massacre, we have an

1099
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 5: episode with Scott.

1100
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 3: Bond that's excellent.

1101
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 5: He's excellent, and that speaks a lot to sort of

1102
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 5: the prince influential Scott influences. He is a criminologist and

1103
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 5: a serial killer and expert.

1104
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he's like he's the guy that sort of

1105
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 2: does look deep, deep deep into serials. He's coming on,

1106
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,439
Speaker 2: he's actually he's actually coming very very soon.

1107
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: Good.

1108
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: He also has a one man show where he discusses this,

1109
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: so that's in part why.

1110
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 3: But he's really.

1111
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: Interesting and did sort of speak to some of these

1112
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: influences kind of again, this is nothing like this. But

1113
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 2: if you're a songwriter, for example, and you're creating music,

1114
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 2: you're influenced by sure oh Steedee Wonder and Michael Jackson

1115
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: and you know are Green Yeah, I mean like so yes,

1116
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: and you know listen, these are influences. So sometimes your

1117
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 2: music may have a tinge of those influences.

1118
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: Now cut to you.

1119
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 2: The most sickest, most demented, grossest example is you want

1120
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: to kill and therefore you're being influenced by the air

1121
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 2: quotes greats scary stuff.

1122
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 4: Yeah it is. It is very scary. And I got

1123
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 4: to tell you flashback just for a second. When I

1124
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 4: saw that image of him with the hoodie on exactly Joseph,

1125
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 4: I thought about ped Kazinski, Yes, yes, the unibomber, and

1126
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 4: how he could you know, he saw himself as like

1127
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 4: this intellectual uh titan uh Ted Kaczynski was He's he

1128
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 4: was a murderer. But you know, this guy's got PSHD

1129
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 4: in mathematics and was very well studied, and you know,

1130
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 4: his manifesto is just it's it's mind blowing, you know,

1131
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 4: the stuff that he was talking about back then, And

1132
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 4: I don't know, uh Coburger sees himself also as this

1133
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 4: superior being. I think hates seeing his name as a

1134
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 4: superior being, you know, intellectually to everyone else. And that

1135
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 4: I really wonder if that that hoodie was like an homage.

1136
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 4: I think so, yeah, because it looks just like it

1137
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 4: looks just like the rendering absent of glasses of of of.

1138
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 7: I think I think he was preparing and looking to

1139
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 7: see what his new uniform was going to be in Pennsylvania.

1140
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 3: It's just my opinion, what do you mean his new

1141
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: uniform in Pennsylvania.

1142
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 7: I think he was going to strike again in Pennsylvania.

1143
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 7: I don't think going back to Washington. That's interesting. Meaning

1144
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 7: thank god he was arrested caught, because yeah, oh yeah,

1145
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 7: I totally agree. Sorry I am, I'm like catching on

1146
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 7: to what you were saying. Yeah, no brainer. Joseph and

1147
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 7: I talk about this to nauseum. I'm not totally convinced

1148
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 7: in Stike strike prior in some way, you know, whether

1149
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 7: he was like a bit of a sexual predator or

1150
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 7: he was thinking into houses. We know, we know that

1151
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 7: there's no chance that he was like not up to nothing,

1152
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 7: but we really tried.

1153
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: We've you know, researched a lot and having found any.

1154
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 4: Around the sales if they're looking into them.

1155
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 7: I'm sure the Tri state area, I'm sure there are

1156
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 7: you know what, a five state area.

1157
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're looking now that we've got his DNA

1158
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 3: and whatnot.

1159
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right.

1160
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 5: Listen, we would love you to join this conversation about

1161
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 5: Brian Coburger in regards to all of the foe and

1162
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 5: information that have come out in the Idaho murder case.

1163
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 5: Give us a call eighty day three to one crime

1164
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 5: or hit us on a talkback and we actually have

1165
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 5: a talkback right now.

1166
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 3: Nice.

1167
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: Hey, lady Stephanie from Ohio, I just wanted to say, Boddy,

1168
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: I love Brian Karenberger, and I just wanted to also suggest.

1169
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 3: Maybe Brian criybrog. Yeah, have a great day, ladies. Love

1170
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 3: the show, Stephanie.

1171
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 7: So for those who know, I kind of nicknamed Brian

1172
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 7: Coberger Brian Kreenberger because of all the complaints he's been making.

1173
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: He's such an annoying complainer, it's sot of hands.

1174
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 7: So that talkback is in reference to my Brian Kherenberger

1175
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 7: making fun of him type situation.

1176
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: Brian Brian Kreiberger. That's a good one too, Thank you

1177
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 3: for the talkback.

1178
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brian Kreiberger is a great call. He's such a whiner.

1179
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: And again somebody who thinks they're so tough and they're

1180
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: taking in all these influences and look, I'm going to

1181
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: murder and massacre for people, and like sit there like

1182
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: a like a glimp, what's the word. Like he was

1183
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 2: just sitting in court so like giving nothing, and now

1184
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 2: he's in prison where he belongs, and he's like, I

1185
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 2: didn't get my meal.

1186
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 7: Oh it's loud.

1187
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 3: People are taunting me. Yeah, people are taunting you people.

1188
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 3: That's what happens crazy making.

1189
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you know, I feel a certain type of

1190
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 7: way about it. I do think, and I've said it before.

1191
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 7: You know, we as of a society have elected to

1192
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 7: put people in prison as a form of punishment.

1193
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: We have to feed them. But what's the alternative though

1194
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 3: to think about? Because yeah, no, truth, not that Joseph.

1195
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 6: I thought that.

1196
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 2: I had that thought this weekend when I've lost Yeah,

1197
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: he was complaining about the care he was giving. You

1198
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 2: think those caregivers are excited to feed him more.

1199
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1200
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 4: I think it's referred to as the special, So then

1201
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 4: you might be specially prepared so look, you be careful,

1202
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 4: be careful.

1203
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the truth.

1204
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1205
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 7: We send we send innocent people to prison all the time.

1206
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 7: I just think we should be feeding them, that's all.

1207
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 3: But what is the alternative? Is there?

1208
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 6: Is it?

1209
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: The alternatives said? That is all the procedures and.

1210
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 7: Feed people what they're supposed to be fed. I mean,

1211
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 7: that's there's no alternative. You know, you get a minimum

1212
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 7: nutrition in prison. It should be met. That's just my opinion.

1213
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 7: I listen, I'm not on Bran Koberger's side. I don't

1214
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 7: want anybody to think that I hate him, Okay. I

1215
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 7: just think that if we as a society are using

1216
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 7: prison to punish people, it's our responsibility to make sure

1217
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 7: they're nutritional needs are met and feed them.

1218
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 3: Okay. Fair, it's hard to disagree that it is very

1219
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 3: fair in prison.

1220
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 6: Form is its own thing.

1221
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 3: And I actually, yeah, let's get a different day. But yeah,

1222
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 3: but like.

1223
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 5: Yes, but the dark side of me does uh does

1224
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 5: with Joyce.

1225
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 7: The other side of me is like, I am so

1226
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 7: happy for the family because they've got it, loving it right.

1227
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 7: Like there's two sides, like, yeah, I hate him and

1228
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 7: you know, screw that his nutritional means aren't giving met

1229
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 7: He killed four beautiful people. He didn't care about them.

1230
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 7: There's thirteen complaints against him at WSU. He didn't care

1231
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 7: about those women either, Like, screw him forever. But at

1232
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 7: the other side of me is like, well, we probably

1233
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 7: should be feeding people in prison. It's probably something that

1234
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 7: we should be doing.

1235
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 3: That's fair. You know, you made a very good fight.

1236
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you made a very good argument, and I love

1237
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 2: you for it. Listen, these guys have been having a

1238
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 2: giggle during the break. We all kind of needed it.

1239
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for the dance break. We needed to sort

1240
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 2: of shake off some of the heavy I have felt

1241
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 2: a little crazed, so everyone's taking.

1242
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 3: It down a notch.

1243
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: I know we've talked about a lot of dark stuff,

1244
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 2: so more dark stuff, speaking of more speaking of dark stuff.

1245
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: But I will say this, I love you guys, and

1246
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be with all of you having

1247
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 2: the band together. And Joseph you hear, and Taha and

1248
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 2: Sam and Adam like dream team. I'm really psyched. Yeah,

1249
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 2: So back to Idaho. Back to go back to Idaho.

1250
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

1251
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 7: So Joseph sent this really great article okay to us,

1252
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 7: and it's from the forensic on the scene and then

1253
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 7: the lab like is it periodical some kind of magazine

1254
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 7: that Joseph of course is well versed and obviously this

1255
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 7: is his expertise, and it goes into the basically the

1256
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 7: authrum testing that was done. And if you don't know

1257
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 7: what AUTHORAM is, AUTHORAM is a forensic genealogy company developing

1258
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,919
Speaker 7: you know, high grade resolution S and P profiles, which

1259
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 7: is like a genetic fingerprint, so to speak, right, and

1260
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 7: they take they take this information from the crime scene

1261
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 7: DNA and use like genome sweek sequencing technology.

1262
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 4: Uh.

1263
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 7: The DNA evidence this in this case came from a

1264
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 7: knife sheath that left at the scene containing a single

1265
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 7: male DNA profile. This DNA profile ultimately pointed to Cobra

1266
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 7: as a suspect and was confirmed by matching the buckle

1267
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 7: swap they took from him when he was arrested. And

1268
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 7: then of course they compared the trash collected at his

1269
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 7: parents home to his biological father and that connected him

1270
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 7: to any who I digress. So, Joseph, what can you

1271
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 7: tell us about this testing that that that we're learning

1272
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 7: about in this recent article from mom.

1273
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 4: Interestingly enough, you know, I'm friends with the people at Athram.

1274
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 4: I think they're doing cutting edge stuff, Angels. They really are.

1275
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 4: They they're bringing bringing resolution for people that haven't had it.

1276
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 4: So Traditionally they have been involved in cold cases. I'll

1277
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 4: say right here, heart stop. The Idaho case was not

1278
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 4: a cold case. It does not fit any uh the

1279
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 4: markers for being a cold case. All right, Golden State

1280
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 4: killer that was a cold case. All right, those were

1281
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 4: cold cases. List cold case.

1282
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1283
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 4: So authoram had had gotten engaged in order to do

1284
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 4: this by the authorities out in Idaho. All right. So

1285
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 4: they're working the case with that bit of DNA that

1286
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 4: they had and I think it's probably touched DNA that

1287
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 4: came off the knife sheet hence S and P. So

1288
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 4: they're using these small little segments that they have and

1289
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 4: they kind of have to amplify the stuff in order

1290
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 4: to you know, develop profile, well their development profile. They're

1291
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 4: going about their business doing their thing, even though it's

1292
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 4: not a cold case, enters the FBI, and so you know,

1293
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 4: one of the one of the big things with authorm

1294
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 4: is that they use open source, all right. They use

1295
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 4: open source contributors that are out there anybody can get

1296
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 4: access to this. That's what they do well, Apparently the

1297
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 4: FBI came in in this case, and when they did,

1298
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 4: they entered into this thing, said we'll kind of take

1299
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 4: it from here, and they begin to work this thing

1300
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 4: from the perspective they're going to go into apparently databases

1301
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 4: that are not open source. And if you listen to

1302
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 4: the interview with the prosecutor Nie, I think it's Jeff

1303
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 4: n I. I think that's right, it's okay, good. So Nie

1304
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 4: makes a very clear statement here, and this is kind

1305
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 4: of fascinating. There's actually an article with detailing this interview.

1306
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 4: I think it's Fox. I can't remember. I think I

1307
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 4: sent you guys the article. But at any rate, he

1308
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 4: talks about how he everything was dependent in this case

1309
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,480
Speaker 4: on this bit of DNA and this profile that was developed.

1310
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 4: And here's the problem. Within the FBI, they had a

1311
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 4: memorandum in there that said we are not going to

1312
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 4: use non open source DNA. Well they did, all right,

1313
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 4: and so this it was a real risk. I mean,

1314
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 4: it was a crapshoot, you know, for them to do this.

1315
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 4: And the fact that they did it and they got

1316
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 4: this more robust profile as a result of this, and

1317
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 4: they were able to kind of pinpoint this now goes

1318
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 4: on to talk about the fact that if it had

1319
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 4: not hold on to your hats here, if it had

1320
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 4: not been for this profile, the genetic profile that was developed,

1321
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 4: they would not have gotten any of the cell right data.

1322
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 4: And how are those two things connected. Well, one thing

1323
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 4: connects to the next, because then you can go back

1324
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 4: and the people they did a remarkable job with the phone,

1325
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 4: I mean, breaking it down. It was absolutely amazing to me.

1326
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 4: I was dumbfounded. And if it had not been for

1327
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 4: that profile, that could not have gotten into the phone

1328
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 4: because they could specifically narrow it down at that point

1329
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 4: in time. So all of this, this is like a

1330
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 4: series of dominoes that felt and it was a big

1331
01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 4: risk I think looking forward, you know, even know he

1332
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 4: has agreed that he is not going to appeal, you know,

1333
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 4: and I know that at some point Tom that's going

1334
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 4: to come up. And I wonder if this is going

1335
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 4: to be brought up in that era, some you know,

1336
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 4: smart defense attorney is going to try to figure out

1337
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 4: some way to engineer this thing.

1338
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:20,879
Speaker 3: Can that happen, Joseph?

1339
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 2: So if somebody, I mean, I'm trying to think of

1340
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 2: an example of real time, and I know the answer

1341
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,799
Speaker 2: is probably yes, which is a bummer. But if someone

1342
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,799
Speaker 2: confesses to the murder of four people, which he has,

1343
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 2: he's now pled guilty for life sentences, no option for parole,

1344
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 2: even if in a bajillion years he's like, actually, my

1345
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 2: DNA was you know, not handled correctly or that was

1346
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 2: against my privacy laws.

1347
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 3: He still confessed to the murder of Jesse mus skeleton

1348
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 3: in West Memphis. Three. That does happen.

1349
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's it's certainly plausible, particularly Jesse.

1350
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 2: Was also under influence and was perhaps being you know,

1351
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 2: saying it doesn't.

1352
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 4: I got to tell you, never in my life did

1353
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:15,520
Speaker 4: I ever anticipate the Innocence Project taking up Scott Peterson.

1354
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 4: All right, right, so if you've got if you've got

1355
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 4: a group, if you've got a group of vested attorneys

1356
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 4: that are out there, they can make just about anything

1357
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 4: happens that they want to, or at least give the

1358
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 4: appearance that something's going to happen, all right.

1359
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 7: And stuff like this is probably why the families, some

1360
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 7: of them, were so upset, because, yeah, there is there

1361
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 7: is no appeal period, right, there is no there's no

1362
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 7: getting up. But we know better, right, we know, like,

1363
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 7: for instance, the Meninda's brother's perfect example. They they were

1364
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 7: sat no parole and then we just had a parli earring.

1365
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 7: So times change, things evolve, and you know what in

1366
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 7: twenty years, Let's say in twenty years it might be hey,

1367
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 7: IgG's illegal. Okay, Now we've got to go back and

1368
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 7: look at all these cases where IgG was in their

1369
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 7: cases or you know, a product of them being does

1370
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 7: IgG stand for?

1371
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 3: Just for anyone who doesn't know what does IgG stand for?

1372
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 4: That's the investigative genetic genealogy. And here here's the thing.

1373
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 4: I think at least that they're going to look at

1374
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 4: this and you know this this people had actually run

1375
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 4: up the flagpole in the Idaho case that this was

1376
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 4: going to be perhaps a precedent setting case relative to IgG,

1377
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 4: that it was going to be one of those things

1378
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 4: where it was really going to be put to a test.

1379
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,839
Speaker 4: Now we've never had that test, okay, because everything hinged

1380
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 4: on this and it was so high profile. There are

1381
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 4: attorneys that would salivate over this in order to get

1382
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 4: this into court, to make a name to argue it.

1383
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 4: So I don't know, the future remains unserted.

1384
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is your crime tonight. And I heard radio

1385
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 7: I'm with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie and the wonderful forensic expert

1386
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 7: Joseph Scott Morgan, and we're right in the middle of

1387
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 7: talking about investigative genetic genealogy in kind of how it

1388
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 7: pertains to, you know, the legality surrounding the Brian Coberger case.

1389
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 7: If you want, if you have something to say, give

1390
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 7: us a call eighty eight thirty one crime or leave

1391
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 7: us a talkback. So, Joseph, do you think listen in

1392
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 7: my worst like nightmare scenario, it's, you know, twenty fifty eight.

1393
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 7: You know, it's a couple of years from now, twenty

1394
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 7: fifty eight. I'm walking around with my cane and I

1395
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 7: hear that Brian Coberger has appealed.

1396
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 3: I think that.

1397
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 7: IgG could be a reason, I really do, you guys.

1398
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 2: The reason is because the FBI stepped in and how

1399
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,879
Speaker 2: they took this private personal information, how it was gathered.

1400
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 2: You know, maybe like this is not the right word,

1401
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 2: but without a warrant or what have you. The technicality

1402
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 2: of it from a legal perspective could be what Brian

1403
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 2: Cobroger at a later date uses to get parole versus

1404
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 2: the technology. You're saying, there's a technicality on its gathering.

1405
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:09,839
Speaker 3: There's a privacy concern.

1406
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 7: With privacy, there's a privacy concern, and it's part of

1407
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:17,799
Speaker 7: our you know rights as United States citizens and the FBI,

1408
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,719
Speaker 7: you know, when we don't really know exactly. I don't

1409
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 7: at least I you know, maybe Joseph does, and he's

1410
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,560
Speaker 7: the expert, but you know, we don't really know the

1411
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 7: how they created this family tree because listen, they identify

1412
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 7: Brian Coberger through the parents trash. Basically, what they did

1413
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 7: was they took the trash, right, and it was a

1414
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 7: Q tip is what warned okay, And they took the

1415
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 7: DNA on the Q tip and they said, oh, this

1416
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 7: DNA on this Q tip belongs to the DNA depositor

1417
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 7: on the knife sheets father, right, So the DNA of

1418
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 7: the Q tip is the father of the DNA on

1419
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 7: the knife, right. And then they say, well, the only

1420
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,839
Speaker 7: person that could be is Brian Coberger. They rest Brian Coberger.

1421
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 7: They do a buckle swab on site. Yep, there's a match. No,

1422
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 7: they don't get that. They don't get that without all

1423
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 7: this IgG that's happened, So I don't.

1424
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 2: But still even that they were trying to do a

1425
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: technicality about even being in their garbage, because there was

1426
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 2: so much hay made about like a personal person's garbage

1427
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 2: can who's on the street versus at the side of

1428
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 2: their house. If it's on the street, it's no longer private.

1429
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 2: There's an implied sense of you can gather. We just

1430
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 2: we kind of you know.

1431
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 7: Well, maybe that's the issue.

1432
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's a technicality, though it

1433
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 2: doesn't change the actual.

1434
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 3: Truth of it.

1435
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 5: But also, I mean, this could be the inverse of

1436
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 5: what you're talking about, body and this could be the

1437
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 5: beginning of case law, because I got to be honest,

1438
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 5: I don't understand why, I IgG investigative genetic genealogy is

1439
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 5: not used for current crisis versus cold And I think

1440
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 5: I was sweet honestly doing season two of the Idaho

1441
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 5: Massacre with you, Stephanie and speaking to different experts in

1442
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 5: privacy and yeah, the rationale of you have a right

1443
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 5: to privacy for stuff that you put out in your garbage.

1444
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 6: I don't know, does this sit with me?

1445
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 3: I think it's garbage.

1446
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's garbage too.

1447
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 3: So I love those crazy good work, Sorry, Joseph, Yeah.

1448
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 4: No, no, I think that the cases that are going

1449
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 4: to determine the case law relative to IgG have yet

1450
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 4: to be tried. That's what I think. I think that

1451
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 4: it has to pass through this membrane that all new

1452
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 4: technology and forensics has to pass through. That test is coming,

1453
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 4: and it'll come in various forms, I think. So you're

1454
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 4: going to have to It's not something we're going to

1455
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 4: know immediately. I think that it'll be the test of time,

1456
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 4: if you will, with this accumulated case case law.

1457
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 3: Wow.

1458
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 7: Well, this is a very interesting conversation and I love

1459
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 7: having these kinds of talks.

1460
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 2: And let me just tell you, this night is a wrap.

1461
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 2: Almost everybody's got a little groove. They've all got a

1462
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 2: little shake. We're seeing some Even Joseph has his hands

1463
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 2: in the air and I like it. Yeses stolen Malibu

1464
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 2: Joseph and Malibu Courtney, the two of them just gonna

1465
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 2: galli Van.

1466
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 3: So right off to a beach. Listen.

1467
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 2: It's been an amazing night, very complicated stuff that we've

1468
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 2: been discussing. And tomorrow we're going to really unpack the

1469
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 2: Menendez update now that Robert rand will be back with us.

1470
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 2: So the new developments regarding their parole is something we're

1471
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 2: going to give a lot of time too, So if

1472
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 2: you have any questions.

1473
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 3: Please toss them our way.

1474
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 2: And Courtney, you have a listener who's just reaching out

1475
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 2: real time.

1476
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, we got a DM from Sarah s so thank

1477
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 5: you and it reads, Hey, girls, I absolutely love your show.

1478
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 5: You cover the stories with so much care, class and

1479
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:46,120
Speaker 5: just the right amount of humor.

1480
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1481
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 5: I am a huge Joseph Scott Morgan fan as well. Yep,

1482
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 5: so Sunday shows are my fave. I was hoping to

1483
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 5: get his book, but I can only find it in

1484
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 5: the kindle version. Can you tell me if they can

1485
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 5: in print? Thanks so much, keep up the amazing work, Sarah.

1486
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:08,520
Speaker 2: Oh, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah Sarah.

1487
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 4: Thanks Youah, thanks for asking. Blood Beneath My Feet has

1488
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 4: been out of print for a couple of years. It

1489
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 4: is available in electronic version, so that's where we stand

1490
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 4: at this point.

1491
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, are can we secretly talk about the screen? I mean,

1492
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 2: are we allowed to talk about Joseph's great endeavor and

1493
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 2: the possible film version of his epicness? We won't, I mean,

1494
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 2: but there's been a lot of epicness around with my Feet. Yeah,

1495
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 2: there's some really high profile, fancy people.

1496
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, there has, so we'll see what happens with that.

1497
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 4: Superspect about it. But I love you guys, Thank you,

1498
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 4: Thank you guys for allowing me to be with you

1499
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 4: every sing. You know, I look forward to this. It's

1500
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 4: such a grind. I do all these shows on news,

1501
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 4: but every week, Joseph, I have so much joy. It's

1502
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 4: not just fun. I have joy getting together with you guys,

1503
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 4: just chatting and so thank you for this. I can't

1504
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 4: tell you how much I appreciate it. And just check

1505
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 4: out body Bags. And if you're going to Crime Coon,

1506
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 4: I will be there, and Kimmy in toe as well.

1507
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Joseph, She's to be.

1508
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 2: Handing out T shirts and we're fans of hers, so.

1509
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 4: I will be appearing on main stage with Miss Nancy Grace.

1510
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:26,919
Speaker 4: It's just she and I and we will be talking

1511
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 4: about the intriguing case that she dropped a book on

1512
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 4: this past summer and I've been covering it now for

1513
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 4: three years with her, the Ellen Greenberg case.

1514
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 6: Joott.

1515
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 4: Well, Yeah, Joe Scott, So I you.

1516
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 2: That's how I met you. I met you. This is

1517
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago. Now how long many years has

1518
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 2: it been?

1519
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 4: Joseph through Nancy one hundred.

1520
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely COVID times though it was definitely COVID,

1521
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 2: and Joseph was one of those people who I just

1522
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 2: had a fast phone call with and it was like

1523
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 2: two and a half hours. I canceled my whole day

1524
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 2: because he was the most interesting person I had ever

1525
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 2: spoken to, and it was like completely about something completely separate.

1526
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 3: I forget even what it was.

1527
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 2: Nancy had connected us, and I was like, wait, what

1528
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 2: who Wait, you're a death investigator?

1529
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 3: What's that?

1530
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 2: And then suddenly he was on our dock and he's

1531
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 2: been on every one of our projects ever since. He's

1532
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 2: been like going through every autopsy imaginable, and we've essentially

1533
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 2: held you hostage ever since.

1534
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 4: So you can't.

1535
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 3: See so much.

1536
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 2: Jo a joyfull end concert. You're really like the real deal.

1537
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,799
Speaker 2: And thank you for the great work. And yeah, listen

1538
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: for anyone listening. Here's to a great week ahead. Let's

1539
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 2: kick you know, let's kick the door down Monday. We're here,

1540
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 2: We're going to have a great week. We're going to

1541
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 2: be back tomorrow. Like I mentioned earlier talking about the

1542
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 2: Menendez brothers and their.

1543
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 3: Their lack of parole.

1544
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 2: And again, thank you for the many questions, and the

1545
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 2: Collins keep them coming.

1546
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 3: Stay safe and.

1547
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: Have yourself a great remainder of your Sunday night, and

1548
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 2: we will be back tomorrow. Good Night, everybody. This is

1549
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

1550
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:07,679
Speaker 6: Bye, good night,