1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: We are bringing you the very latest in the search 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: for a beautiful twenty year old private first class out 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: of Forthood, Vaness Again. The search has come to an end. 4 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air 5 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: now the search for Vanessa again, gorgeous twenty year old 6 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: private first class forth Hood has come to an end. 7 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 8 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM 9 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: one eleven. Take a listen to this. This is a 10 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: sad update from Texas equa Search. They tell us they 11 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: are suspending their search efforts for the missing soldier from 12 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Houston after what was discovered there near the Leon River 13 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: in Bell County. Tim Miller described it as a shallow grave. 14 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: It's you know, believed to be her Penning positive identification, 15 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,639 Speaker 1: which happy the search for Vanessa is now over. Texas 16 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: Equisearch is now calling off the search for missing twenty 17 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: year old soldier Vanesse again after Army investigators found human 18 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: remains in Bell County today. There was a shallow graves 19 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: or rocks covered the graves and stuff. And then if 20 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, for the three days after you disappear at range, 21 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: so everything just looked natural. He are hearing the voice 22 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: of our long time friend and colleague, Tim Miller of Equasearch, 23 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: who is with us now, along with an all star 24 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: panel of guests, including the attorney for Vanesse Agean's family, 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Shell Kawan, psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills at 26 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot Com, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator, 27 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, 28 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: and special guests k x x VT verst to crime 29 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: victim turned crusader Tim Miller. Tim tell us in as 30 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: much detail as you can what happened. Well, Nancy, you 31 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: know what we've found. You know I've been saying, we 32 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: found some evidence and we knew it was evidence connected 33 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: to Banessa's disappearance less Saturday, and it's the evidence was burned, 34 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: but there was some of it that did not burn 35 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: and we knew immediately it was evidence. We actually doug 36 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: ye it wasn't, but I'm believing in Nancy. It was 37 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: only three feet away and the where the shallow grave 38 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: was at, we were actually standing on top of little 39 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Vanessa's body. The Texas rangers were there, the military CID 40 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: cade were dogs, and what a job they did on 41 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: concealing her little body and what had happened. And we 42 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: actually was starting to search again in this sporting So 43 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: we had members up here yesterday and we was we 44 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: was out there to see too well after dark. And 45 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: I was actually right at that scene just three days 46 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: ago and really looking at some things, and I just 47 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: knew she had to be somewhere closer. What was it 48 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: a gut instinct? What led you? You've been telling me 49 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: that for days? What led you to say that? We 50 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: got a lot, a lot of information and the witness 51 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: came forward and talked about something that he saw. We 52 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: found what this witness saw? Can you tell us what 53 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: he thought he saw? Well, you know, when I get 54 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: my hands flapped out of them, I don't care at 55 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: this point in time, as far as I'm concerned us 56 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: over with somebody actually seemed somebody in one of them 57 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: big pelican cases about three foot by three foot with 58 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: them big plastic cases. And he was really struggling to 59 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: go ahead and get this into his vehicle. After witness 60 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: came forward, they had enough information to go ahead and 61 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: go to a judge and so we actually got the 62 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: phone record person went how long he was there and everything, 63 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: and hold on just a moment. I want to tell 64 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: everybody what you're talking about. A pelican case. I have 65 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: four of them, and on the front is a name Nancy, John, David, 66 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: Lucy and David. Usually really heavy plastic containers and you 67 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: can close it with a you know, a lot that 68 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: you just pull up to open and open it up 69 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: and Trent you can stuck it full of stuff and 70 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: they come annually big like plastic treasure chests or plastic 71 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: storage chests that you open and close and can latch 72 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: to keep it secure. A witness exists that saw a 73 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: man struggling to lift a pelican case into his vehicle, 74 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: and then we actually a yes, yes then and then 75 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: we actually found a burn pile when we was out there, 76 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: and probably about forty percent of the lid of that 77 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: pelican case did not burn. So when we found that, 78 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, she has to be 79 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: in this area. Where was the burn pit? Tim Miller 80 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: right beside the Leon River where we was concentrating non searching, 81 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: and I was my biggest fear Nancy was Addy threw 82 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: her in the river. And that maybe she would never 83 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: ever been found. So when you saw that half burned 84 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: pelican case, what went through your mind? We knew that 85 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: it was going to take far more in a miracle 86 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: for her to be found alive and returned home. Do 87 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: you believe Tim that based on the evidence that we're 88 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: learning now, Well, let me ask a couple of pointed questions. 89 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: The witness, if the witness is accurate, sees a man 90 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: struggling to lift a pelican case, a black heavy duty 91 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: plastic container with a lid, into his vehicle. Where did 92 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: he the witness see that? On the base? It could 93 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: How could the army not figure that out? The armory 94 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: at the armory in the parking lot outside of where 95 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: she came out of the armory. She was working that armory, 96 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: So she had to be either killed or kidnapped on 97 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: the base. She was a very extremely physical fit, physically fit. 98 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Natalie Kawan, the attorney for Vanessa Gean's family. 99 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: She was in top shape. She's a private first class 100 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: in the Army. She runs all the time, Hi King 101 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: and her superior sergeant called her in off her day off, 102 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: So I think she would have had to have been 103 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: dead when she was putting that container. She unless she 104 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: was drugged, I don't see he could overpower her without 105 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: making such a ruckuss everybody around him could hear. What 106 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: was the state of her physical fitness, Natalie, Well, she 107 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: was super fit, um, you know, like we said she was. 108 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: She was a big runner, She played soccer. She was 109 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: working out in the gym all the time. I had 110 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: videos of her just lifting some serious weights. She was 111 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: gonna go for a hike that afternoon into I really 112 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: have to that had to be either our struggles or 113 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: like you said, some kind of a weapon or some 114 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: kind of drugs. Climb stories with Nancy Grace, we are 115 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: bringing you the very latest in the search for a 116 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: beautiful twenty year old private first class out of courthood 117 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Vanessa again her allegations that if she had been sex 118 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: harassed by her superior, The Army says they don't have 119 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: any credible evidence of that. Well, you know what, I'm 120 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: sitting here a thousand miles away, and I know about 121 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: multiple statements she gave regarding that. Everybody. You were just 122 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: hearing Our friend who was with us right now, Tim Miller, 123 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: who was in on the search and saw the evidence 124 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: leading up to the discovery of Vanessa's body. Now take 125 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen Houston. Colleen 126 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: police are investigating after more remains were found near the 127 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: site where the remains of a missing Forthood soldier were 128 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: found earlier this month. Now, these remains were reportedly found 129 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: within walking distance of where investigators found the body of 130 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now, he had 131 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: been missing from forth Hood since August. His cause of 132 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: death is under investigation, but they have said they suspect 133 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent to 134 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The discovery 135 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: was made as Texas equ was looking for another missing 136 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: Forthood Soldier, Private first Class Baness again Gan, was last 137 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have not 138 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: yet said if these cases are connected straight out to 139 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: a special guest joining US Olivia, Levada with k XXV 140 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: TV Olivia. So now we've got the remains of another 141 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: Private Wendel Morales, and remains near him that we were 142 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: just hearing being described by our friends at ABC Houston. 143 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: But that's not Vanessa. What the h E double l 144 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: is going on at ford Hood. We've got two potential 145 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: sets of remains, plus Vanessa gam is dead and buried 146 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: in a shallow grave, obviously evidence having been burned. What 147 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: is going on at ford Hood? Olivia? You know what, Nancy, 148 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: I wish I could answer that question. What's going on 149 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: at Fort Hood is not right? That's what I can say. Man, 150 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: you're not kidding Olivia, Levada joining me k x x 151 00:10:55,280 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: V TV, as the news broke. First, there had been 152 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: a potential second set of remains near Fort Hood after 153 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: the remains of Gregory Wodell Morales were found. He's been 154 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: missing since last August. Then this second set of potential 155 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: remains found near him, now Vanessa, as the news broke, 156 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: is anybody asking at Fort Hood what you don't know 157 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: about all the dead bodies around the Fort Hood? And 158 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: you don't know about sex harassment? And now this beautiful 159 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: girl is dead and her mom and her sisters are 160 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: out of their minds with grief and they're what twiddling 161 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: their thumbs? I mean, look, my dad was in the military. 162 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: I support the military, but this is wrong. Is anybody 163 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: asking questions of Fort Hood? Olivia? Yes, we're asking questions 164 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: and receiving press releases. Press releases like a piece of 165 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: paper matters to me right now. I mean to you, 166 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, you're the lawyer for Vanessa's family, who is 167 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: grief stricken. I spoken to her sister earlier, and her 168 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: sister so distraught in the search for Vanessa. How can 169 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: they say they didn't know about the sex harassment. How 170 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: can they send out a piece of paper as a 171 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: press release. I don't get it. Well, let me just 172 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: tell you this morning, I spoke to my client and 173 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: I spoke to I contacted the big attorneys there and 174 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: I had it out with them. I said, how is 175 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: it that I find out and my client finds out 176 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: information from the media before they find out from the 177 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: CID from the base itself. It is so pathetic that 178 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: you have kept us in the darkest whole time. And 179 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: it's funny how you guys have loose lips on the base, 180 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: but you don't have the dignity to call my client 181 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: and give them the information that they begged for for months. 182 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: And I said, this is definitely we are demanded a 183 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: congressial devestication. I want everyone to be held accountable for 184 00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: this mishandling of a case and a soldier's life. Natalie, 185 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: I am so taken aback right now by what I 186 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: think you just said, because that was that was a 187 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: lot of information. You're am I understanding that Vanessa's family 188 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: found out that her remains had been found through the media. 189 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: That's correct, Nancy cannot break in for one minute, Tim Miller, 190 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: I could just I just can't believe that before Crime 191 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: Online or any of us reported it. We asked before 192 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: we report this, does the family know? And we were 193 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: told by an unnamed source, Yes, the family knows. Tim Miller, 194 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: I cannot believe the way the family. I mean, I'm 195 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: going to circle back with you, Tim about all the evidence, 196 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: but I just you know, Tim, I was getting chills 197 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: right now because I remember how I found out my 198 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: fiancee was in fact dead, he had been murdered. And 199 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: it was not over the six o'clock news. I was 200 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: told in person. And you know, Tim, you've been there. 201 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: You lost your daughter. God rest her soul. This is 202 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: just the way this family has been treated from the beginning, 203 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: having to beg for answers, the sister driving to Fort Hood, 204 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: trying to get answers and being stowalled. I'm just sick 205 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: about it. Tim. I mean, I know you you are 206 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: a crime victim. Can you imagine what this family has 207 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: gone through with all the bs they've been getting from Hood? Fancy. 208 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: I was driving up here yesterday. Anne Mayor called me up. 209 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: The sister called me up and she said, mister Miller, 210 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: what have you heard? And I said, Mayra, has anybody 211 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: called you? And she said, no, Please tell me what's 212 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: going on? Oh lord, I'm choked up now as one 213 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: of the saddest calls I've ever made in my life. 214 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: And I said, I I can't tell you exactly. I 215 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: only remained south to me to ask me. No military 216 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: nobody had called her. She called and said, mister Miller, 217 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: please tell me what is going on. I'm hearing the 218 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: stuff from the media. You know what, Tim Miller. You 219 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: know I'm going to go to our shrink. And I 220 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: say that in a loving carrying way with me as 221 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: a renowned psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of 222 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: la Doctor Bethany, I'm not just so mad at you 223 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: and Nell in half of the way Fort Hood has 224 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: treated this family, but I'm also hurt because, you know, 225 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: when my dad just passed away, I was so proud. 226 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: The military was there and they played taps and they 227 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: acted like they cared, and I believe that they did 228 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: care and he this family has been treated like this 229 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: by our own military, which we love and revere. It's 230 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: just a real kick in the teeth, Nancy. Some small 231 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: group on that Fourth Hood base is more attached to 232 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: their own culture of CIA, covering their asses, having an 233 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: investigation under the shroud of secrecy, finding out what's going 234 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: on internally, then caring and having empathy for the family. 235 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: It's a bad culture there. And I will say I 236 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: was on several shows with Myra, Vanessa's sister. Myra is 237 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: so brave. She was there twenty four seven pushing this 238 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: story forward, coming on your show talking about her sister 239 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: keeping this front and center, and the fact that they 240 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: would not call her. It tells me again that they're 241 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: more This is a culture on this base where they 242 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: are more attached to their own story, to protecting themselves 243 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: in their own internal culture, than they are to victims. 244 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: It's inhumane, it's heartless. It's leaving the family out in 245 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: the cold. It's not respecting everything Vanessa did to give 246 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: her life and service for our country. You know another thing, Bethany, 247 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: there are times when you may be too numb to 248 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: let yourself care, but in your mind, you know what 249 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: is the right thing to do. They didn't have to 250 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: care about the Game family. And I can't make somebody 251 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: care or empathize or sympathize, but you know what is 252 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 1: morally right and wrong. And they knew they needed to 253 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: call the Game family, and I am hearing now they 254 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: did not that Vanessa's sisters trying to call Tim Miller, 255 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: who's driving to the seat to ask him what happened. 256 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are bringing you 257 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: the very latest and extremely heartbreaking case about when I 258 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: say gorgeous, I mean gorgeous on the inside and the 259 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: outside of Vanessa gam just twenty years old. Why was 260 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: her life worth nothing to fort Hood? Why is that 261 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: because she's a woman and they're just not as important? 262 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it because she's Hispanic? Is it 263 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: because they thought she may file a sex harassment claim? Why? 264 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: Why have they acted like this from the get go? 265 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: You know what, that's that's a whole other can of 266 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: worms for us to figure out. And it's a can 267 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: of stinking fish. I want to get back to what 268 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: we know now. I am getting information right now, Olivia 269 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: Leveda k XXV TV that a member of the military 270 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: at Fort Hood has just died by pulling a gun 271 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: and shooting himself. Now police are not specifying what case 272 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: this guy is connected to. But I mean, I'm not 273 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: a rocket scientist, but I know that two or two 274 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: equals four. What do you know, Olivia Leveda, And the 275 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: last hours we learn a potential suspect has shot of 276 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: himself dead. Olivia. Yes, so, Nancy, this is everything we've 277 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: been told so far. We know that US marshals and 278 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: the Killeen Police Department, which is a city just outside 279 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: of Fort Hood, they assisted investigators with the Fort Hood 280 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: CID and one of their criminal cases early Wednesday morning. Today, 281 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: officials also saying that just before one thirty am, the 282 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: officers located this suspect, and they say that the officers 283 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: attempted to make contact with the suspect and he displayed 284 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: that weapon and discharged it toward himself. As you said, 285 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: at this point, we had not been told if this 286 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: criminal case was in reference to Vanessa, also to Natalie Kawan. 287 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: The lawyer for the Vanessagian family, Natalie, I think you 288 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: may have information on the shooting as well. What do 289 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, sure, I just got word that it 290 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: is the suspects to him that we suspected that shot himself. 291 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: They have video of him shooting himself and that's what happened. 292 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: Was they called a bolo last night. He would see 293 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: running off the base. I mean, this is breaking news 294 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: right now. We speak seen running off space which shorts, 295 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, his army shorts on and they take them 296 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: and then he shot himself in the parking lot. I 297 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: wonder if it was the same parking lot where he 298 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: apparently kidnapped or put a dead body of Vanessa Gem 299 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: in a storage container. Joseph's got Morgan with me. Professor 300 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: Forensics jacksona state author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, 301 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: and Tim Miller Texas Equisearch, who actually sees the evidence. 302 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: Is there on the scene when this young girl's body 303 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: is found buried in a shallow gray covered with rocks, 304 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: and that tells me somebody took a lot of time 305 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: to cover up her body. How did they get away 306 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: with that? How did they get away with putting her dead? 307 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: Or unconscious body and a plastic storage container leaving Fort Hood. 308 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: Why can that be you don't even see what's happening 309 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: in your own parking lot. How can we trust them 310 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: to protect our country if they don't even know what's 311 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: happening in their own parking lot outside the armory? For Pete, 312 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: say Tim Miller or Texas Equisearch, who has been searching 313 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: for Vanessa from the beginning, the very beginning, out there 314 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: in the rain, the heat, the mud, digging with k 315 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: nines and he is a volunteer. Let me just add 316 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: that on top of everything else, Tim Miller, it's amazing 317 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: to me that you're the one out there and the 318 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: army is what sitting with their thumb up their rear 319 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: ends while you guys are doing all the work along 320 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: with police. But that's a different issue. Tim Miller, please 321 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: describe for Joe Scott Morgan the moment you observe what 322 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: you saw and I'm going to get him to analyze 323 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: it forensically. Well, when we found again, Nancy that that 324 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: Pelican case, we knew it was evidence we dug under 325 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: and he tried to burn it. It's one of the 326 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: trees to burn it burned brances and leaves us the 327 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: tree fifteen foot high? Why nobody? Wait, wait, wait, wait, Tim, 328 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: will you say that again? That's really interesting to me. Yeah, 329 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: we found the burn pile. Uh, and leaves and branches 330 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: were burned about fifteen high, fifteen feet up in the tree. 331 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: So why not some big bonfire? Question? Tim? How far 332 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: away from ford Hood is this? Twenty six miles? Twenty 333 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: six miles? Okay, go ahead, and a mixed concrete they've 334 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: actually had concrete. They mixed up concrete. They dug the grave, 335 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: They put some line in the grave. They went ahead 336 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: and poured concrete over top of it, put dirt over that, 337 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: put rocks over top of that. No, they spent time. 338 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: They spent time. And I noticed that you're setting they 339 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: and that tells me that there's more than one suspect. Yeah, 340 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: I mean who who whoever? I'm you know, I may 341 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: have misquoted that. Actually, yeah, who ever did it? Now 342 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: here's the next question, and hopefully we'll know today. But 343 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: they're say, question mark, whether all of her body was found, 344 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: whether all the body parts are there. So we say 345 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: the search is over, but we should know by the 346 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: end of the day whether all the body parts are there, 347 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: and if not, we'll guess what would search is going 348 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: to go on for more body parts? Do you have 349 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: reason to believe all of her body is not there? 350 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: That was the word late last night. That was the 351 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: word late. I mean she was dismembered as well. I 352 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I don't anymore to Tim. 353 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, people ask me this all the time, but 354 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: I got to ask you, how do you keep going 355 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: when you see this over and over and over? Nancy? 356 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm real human, I have real tears. I lose a 357 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: lot of sleep over this. At times I say I 358 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: can't go on anymore. But you know what, when you 359 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: get that call from the family and say, mister Miller, 360 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: please help, how can I say no? I wish somebody 361 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: would be on the other end of that phone. If 362 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: they can say no, they're different person than me, you know. 363 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. That is 364 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: why so many lawyers, so many police, so many investigators 365 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: just crack up or they just leave. They leave it 366 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: because it's overwhelming. I was up half the night thinking 367 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: about Vanessa's family because I just keep hearing her sister's 368 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: voice when we would talk about trying to find Vanessa 369 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: and what a sweet home girl she was wanted to 370 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: stay in. Would come home every weekend, drive the three 371 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: hours to get home. You know. I used to do 372 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: that when I first started practicing law in Atlanta. I 373 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: did it for years. I'd go home to Macon every 374 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: weekend just thinking about that and her family now getting 375 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: this news, and now I hear from Tim Miller. They 376 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: had to call him. He's driving in the rain and 377 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: he has to tell them, you know what, Let me 378 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: get away from the emotion, or I'll just totally get 379 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: down in that hole and can't get out. Let me 380 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: talk about the evidence. That's something I can analyze. I 381 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: can understand that you're hearing what Miller is saying. Go 382 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yay, you listen. They showed up, you know, 383 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: they showed up prepared, Nancy. You know what Tim is 384 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: telling us here relative to gravel or rock, that her 385 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: body was buried, that the grave was prepped, and that 386 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: they utilize lime. And for those that don't know, you've 387 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: probably heard about line before in movies and this sort 388 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: of thing. People a toss this white substance and it 389 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: is white and you know it allegedly speeds decay, and 390 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: so that goes to kind of a mindset, what are 391 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: you looking to do where you're looking to get rid 392 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: of a body, or at least in their thought, they're 393 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: going to get rid of a body and then they're 394 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: going to cover it with rock. Well, why do you 395 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: do that? Saying nay because you believe that there are 396 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: two suspects. It's not right Jackie Olivia Elevada and there 397 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: are two suspects, once in custody, once shot himself. I 398 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: think that's a good question for Natalie. Yeah, you know what, 399 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: you're right because she has some inside info crime stories 400 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us, 401 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: we are giving you the latest in the discovery of 402 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: the body of twenty year old Vanessa Game and with 403 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: me an all star panel. But Natalie Kawana, lawyer for 404 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: Vanessa Gain's family, isn't it true there's more than one suspect. 405 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: That's correct. Sorry, that's correct. There's one in custody right 406 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: now and the other one's just shot himself last night 407 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: running on foot. Amazing to me, which is a whole 408 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: other can of worms for our shrink. Dr Bethany Marshall 409 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: to go into I mean, as much as I love 410 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: Jackie here in the seat, if she said, hey, help 411 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: and get rid of a body. Oh no, but that aside. 412 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: Back to the evidence, Joe Scott, you were saying that 413 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: they the suspects, came prepared with lime to decompose the 414 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: body even more quickly too. Yeahs say complete gravel, go ahead, Yeah, 415 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: And that they're going to prepare this and create almost 416 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: like a vault, you know, kind of a hastily made vault. 417 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: And why would you do that? Well, if anybody knows 418 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: anything about digging a grave or digging a hole in 419 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: the ground, one of the things that happens is when 420 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: do you disrupt that soil, you create a natural depression, 421 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: well an unnatural depression and otherwise tightly compressed soil. Its 422 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: thinking remind that soil out of fort Hood, that area 423 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: out there, it's it's kind of a clay based sand 424 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: and it's very very firm, tightly compact, and so it's 425 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: going to leave a hole. It'll be noticeable. So my 426 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: thought is they don't awareness of this, Nancy. They're gonna 427 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: mix up concrete out there and try to form this 428 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: over her body to encapsulate her body. But this is 429 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: this is a thing that's kind of key to me 430 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: because this is something that has been coming up over 431 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: and over and over again. It's the word shallow. Um. 432 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: If you're gonna go to all this trouble, why dig 433 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: a shallow grave in order to facilitate where they rushed, 434 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, in this where they just trying to get 435 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: out of there. In my experience and having worked thousands 436 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: of cases, is that the line share of people in 437 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: general public are not used to dealing with dead bodies, 438 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: and so they get in the middle of this thing, 439 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: and I guess you haven't lifted a dead body. It's 440 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: so hard to lift a dead body. Was trying to 441 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: was struggling right there in the parking lot in front 442 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: of God and everybody to put the Pelican case. Tim 443 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: Miller's telling us about into the vehicle, and I want 444 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: you to hear this because this is going to affect 445 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: your analysis taken. Listen to our friends at ABC. Human 446 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: remains were found this morning. This comes after someone was 447 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: out here working on the fence. They said they saw 448 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: the human remains or what they thought were human remains, 449 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: and they called Bell County Sheriff's Department, who then came 450 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: out here, contacted the FBI, and contacted Army CID, who 451 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: later confirmed they were indeed human remains. But here today 452 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: is Bell County Sheriff's Department, FBI, Army CID, DPS, and 453 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: Texas Equal SARCH. Human remains were found right this close 454 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: to the street, and DPS Sergeant Brian Washco spoke earlier 455 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: about what led investigators back to this location that they 456 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: searched on June twenty second. Throughout the investigation. Throughout the 457 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: course investigation, more information was received which led the Texas 458 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: Rangers who were assisting the US ARMYCID. Well, yeah, the 459 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: CID was there, but as you hear from Tim Miller, 460 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: a civilian spotted one of the purps struggling to get 461 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: a black Classic container in a car in a vehicle. 462 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: That container was found half burned. Tim Miller saw it 463 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: and is there at the time of the discovery of 464 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: Vanessa's body. But a civilian smells a foul odor according 465 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,239 Speaker 1: to our friends. You were just hearing nikkilat Rulo at 466 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: Casey E NTV. What about it, jos, I continue your analysis? Hey, yeah, 467 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: you know they showed up prepped and and they're going 468 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: to dig a shallow grave. And what Tim was talking 469 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: about is curious as well. After her body is deposited here, 470 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to call her her, I want to 471 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:54,239 Speaker 1: say Vanessa. After Vanessa's body was buried in this you 472 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: know throw together that they had, then they're going to 473 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: go and you know Tim talked about a burnpile. They're 474 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: going to try to burn this Pelican case. I've got 475 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: a Pelican case as well. These things are robust, Nancy, 476 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: as you well know, and they're they're meant they're sealed 477 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: in order to prevent water and moisture to get in there. 478 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: So that again goes to the mindset of these people. 479 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: They know that they're using this case in order to 480 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: transport a body. Well, what are you going to leave 481 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: behind the case? Well, you're going to leave behind trace evidence. 482 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: So they had awareness of this. Why are you going 483 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: to go to all this trouble to burn this valuable case? Well, 484 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: because you know that it's two and two together. If 485 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: you show up with this thing in your possession, you 486 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: know the cops going to examine it, So that again 487 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: goes to motive. But getting the body off post now 488 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm an old soldier, Nancy, and I do know this 489 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: about the army, and I learned this when I first 490 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: went in at eighteen years of age. Right way, wrong way, 491 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Army way, and the army has a way of doing things, 492 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: and they are a closed society now are closed culture. 493 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: Like Bethany had mentioned earlier, Vanessa worked what we common 494 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: refer to as an armorer. That means that she repaired 495 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: small arms. And this is not you know, if you 496 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: go into the armory at at a post, this is 497 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: a highly secured area. That's what's so striking to me 498 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: about this. It's a highly secured area because, look, you 499 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: keep small arms in there, you don't, you know, contrary 500 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: to what people think, soldiers don't just walk around with 501 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: their firearms or where their weapons. They have to take 502 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: them in, store them in the armory, all right, and 503 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: then you come out and you take them from the armory. 504 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: And there's very little people who are allowed, as we 505 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: used to say, on the other side of the counter 506 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: in the armory because you've got deadly weapons in there. 507 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: So that means to me, particularly in this day and age, 508 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: that their security on that area. The army knows what's 509 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: going on. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they 510 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: had CCTV that is going to account for her location 511 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: those moments immediately when she entered the armory and then 512 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: when she left. And yeah, what about Colin Muster when 513 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: you they said she absolutely was there, and she was 514 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: she wasn't, she was gone. It's just it's it's striking 515 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: to me that you can miss this young soldier like this, 516 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: that she is allowed her remains. And this is the 517 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: key as well. I don't know she was alive or 518 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: deceased when she rolled off at Fort Hood. Did they 519 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: kill her on post or did they take her off? 520 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: And Tim Miller joining us from Texas EQUI search first 521 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: him if you could, based on what you know now, 522 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 1: answer that question, was she dead when she was surreptitiously 523 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: taken off Fort Hood? And if you could describe for 524 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: those just joining us, what you observed at the discovery 525 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: of Vanessa's body. Well, my theory is, and I think 526 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: everybody she was killed inside the armory. I think she 527 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: was killed earlier that morning inside the armory, came back 528 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: about eight thirty that night. That's when somebody spotted him 529 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: with that pelican case. So she apparently could have been 530 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: in that pelican case for ten hours inside the armory somewhere. 531 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: The one of the sad things yesterday out out in 532 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: a site, Nancy, is when they did get to Vanessa's 533 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: little body out there, there was she was still covered 534 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: in concrete. It was a mold. So what they did 535 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: is they put the concrete her little body that was 536 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: still molded into concrete in the body bag. So as 537 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: we're speaking right now, I'm sure they are just very 538 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: slowly chipping concrete a wife of her little remains and 539 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: stuff to be able to do an autopsy report. Jim, 540 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in what you just said. 541 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: So the killer poured wet cement directly onto Vanessa. She 542 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: was molded in the concrete. They had to take the concrete. 543 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: Was her little body in the concrete. And like I said, 544 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: as I password speaking right now, they're just shipping away 545 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: concrete off of a body so they can do an 546 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: autopsy report without damaging other body parts, to see if 547 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: they can determine their cause of death. You know what 548 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to say something that was never allowed for 549 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: me to say. The juries You can never under the 550 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: law put a jurar in the place in the shoes 551 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: of the crime victim. Think about it. Do you have 552 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: a mom, a daughter, sister. Vanessa was just twenty years old, 553 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: and now her body is found in a shallow grave 554 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: with concrete literally poured on to her skin to conceal 555 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: her identity. Sometimes I wonder is there justice? But I 556 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: pray to God that there will be justice for Vanessa. 557 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime's story, signing off good bye friend.