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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, over these last

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Speaker 1: fourteen months, everyone's lives have been disrupted to some degree,

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Speaker 1: some extraordinarily so. And that's true for corporate corporations as well.

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Speaker 1: And it's been fascinating to to kind of observe how

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Speaker 1: different companies UH manage their way through the pandemic, how

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Speaker 1: different boards of directors help their management teams navigate through

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Speaker 1: these times. So it's a great time to speak for

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Speaker 1: our next guest, Denbisa Moyo. She is a global economist economist.

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Speaker 1: She currently serves on the boards of Chevron and three

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Speaker 1: M and she has a new book out entitled How

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Speaker 1: Boards Work and How They Can Work Better in a

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Speaker 1: Chaotic World. Then, be said, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us here. You know, we don't have much hindsight here

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Speaker 1: because we're just at the very early stages of coming

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Speaker 1: out on the other side of this pandemic. But in general,

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Speaker 1: how do you think certain boards I guess reacted to

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Speaker 1: and then maybe plan for strategically how to you know,

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Speaker 1: evolve in this crazy world right now. Yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: truth is a number of companies found themselves in a

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Speaker 1: pretty stable and solid position, um, you know, to the

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Speaker 1: extent that from the financial perspective of their balance sheet,

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Speaker 1: from the operational perspective in terms of safety and just

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Speaker 1: keeping the proverbial lights on, and then of course from

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Speaker 1: the strategic aspect, so making sure that the business can

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Speaker 1: survive through challenging times. There are a number of companies

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Speaker 1: that actually did perfectly fine. Um. The bigger issue is,

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Speaker 1: of course, there are a number of companies in the

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Speaker 1: US about fourteen to fifteen percent of American corporations UM,

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Speaker 1: that are incredibly vulnerable. They're known as zombie companies. By that,

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Speaker 1: I mean that they don't have enough even interest sorry

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Speaker 1: cats to cover the interest payment on their debt. And

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Speaker 1: they were of course vulnerable from a balanchie perspective. Many

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Speaker 1: companies struggled in terms of that switch from um sort

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Speaker 1: of bricks and motor operations into being deployed UH is

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Speaker 1: from the remotely UM, and of course the strategic questions remain.

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Speaker 1: I'm wa seeing a lot of consolidation in the markets

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Speaker 1: right now, but I do think that this this experience

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Speaker 1: will separate the sort of what we used to say

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Speaker 1: back in the day, demand from the boys. UM. So

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Speaker 1: I think it has been quite a jarring experience of

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Speaker 1: many companies. I guess E s G is, do we

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Speaker 1: consider it the most important issue going forward for boards? Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: it's become an existential crisis. M E. S G is

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Speaker 1: part and parcel of how companies are thinking about themselves

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Speaker 1: longer term, and obviously we're talking about environmental, social and

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Speaker 1: governance issues. UM. You know, I think that the broader

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Speaker 1: environment remains quite challenged in terms of economic growth beyond

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Speaker 1: this year's rebound. How we thinking about technology, demographic ships, income, inequality,

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Speaker 1: climate change, All these aspects are very much front and

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Speaker 1: center of the minds of board members but also CEOs

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Speaker 1: and and business leaders as they think about how to

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Speaker 1: navigate not just the post COVID environment in the short term,

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Speaker 1: but longer term, how it is we're going to run

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Speaker 1: these businesses UM in the longer term and in a

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Speaker 1: very challenged world. With China rising deglobalization, digitization, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious how a board, how a company like Chevron

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Speaker 1: approaches that, because clearly Chevron's businesses fossil fuels. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, it's not like it would be it would

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Speaker 1: be bad if they just everyone stopped making oil right

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Their needs we need these products.

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Speaker 1: So how does a company like Chevron approach E s G. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to put this in context. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're on the one hand, there are people

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Speaker 1: who are pushing very aggressively for defunding UH energy companies,

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Speaker 1: and I think that there's a missed opportunity here because

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Speaker 1: they tend to over overshadow, overlook the point that there

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Speaker 1: are one point five billion people around the world who've

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Speaker 1: got no access to energy in a cost effective and

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Speaker 1: sustainable way, and it's just not reasonable for society to

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Speaker 1: leave those people in energy poverty, given the broader macroeconomic risks.

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Speaker 1: But just in terms of how the best companies and

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Speaker 1: corporations are viewing the E s G agenda, it's not

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Speaker 1: just about risk mitigation and thinking about greenhouse gas intensity

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Speaker 1: and thinking about carbon intensity. All those things are critically important,

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Speaker 1: but we also have to think about investing and looking

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Speaker 1: at ways to continue to grow these businesses but also

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Speaker 1: to grow the global economy and make sure that we

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Speaker 1: continue to progress and in terms of human progress more generally. So,

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Speaker 1: I think that whatever the issue is in terms of

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Speaker 1: e s g. Not just climate change, but issues of

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Speaker 1: worker advocacy, racial diversity of course, gender diversity as well. UM,

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Speaker 1: couldn't turns around China's rise. Uh, you know, areas of obesity,

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Speaker 1: voter rights, all of these things have to be looked

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Speaker 1: at in a in a more sort of thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: constructive and pragmatic way. And that's that's what I think

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Speaker 1: the best corporations are doing. Basic based upon your experience, UM,

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Speaker 1: what are your views of globalization? There was arguably since

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Speaker 1: the end of World War to the world has become smaller,

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Speaker 1: it's become a much more global market um over the

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Speaker 1: last fifty years. But then under the prior administration, there

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Speaker 1: was a move back to make America first on shoring

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Speaker 1: some businesses. Um, how do you view as you sit

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Speaker 1: on those boards of two global companies, how do you

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Speaker 1: think about globalization? How does corporate America think about globalization? Well?

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Speaker 1: Look that the textbooks are very clear theoretically globalization and

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Speaker 1: by that I mean the movements of trade and in

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Speaker 1: trade of goods of services UM. Capital flows, moving capital

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Speaker 1: in what we traditionally call the carry trade, borrowing in

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Speaker 1: places like London in New York at low interest rates,

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Speaker 1: investing in high risk adjusted high return places like Brazil

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Speaker 1: or South Africa. UM. You know, looking at the immigration,

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Speaker 1: movement of people across borders, global standards, global cooperation, all

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Speaker 1: these five elements of globalization. There is absolutely no doubt

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Speaker 1: about it from historical evidence UM that these aspects, when

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Speaker 1: they are at full function UM do contribute to broadening

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Speaker 1: economic growth, the sort of expansion of the g d

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Speaker 1: P PIE and human progress. That being said, we have

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Speaker 1: to be aware and since this is the fact that

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Speaker 1: there have been pockets of the population around the world

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Speaker 1: UM that have been left behind UM. And that's where

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Speaker 1: the schism and the challenges emerge for globalization. As we

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Speaker 1: have seen, it's led to Brexit, it's led to the

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Speaker 1: American America first type of policies. And my view is

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Speaker 1: that from again to a very pragmatic since UM globalization

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Speaker 1: should be pursued, but understanding that we need to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everyone participating in this expansion, and that requires

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Speaker 1: a little bit more temerity, but also thoughtfulness with respect

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Speaker 1: to how we approach a globalization. It can't be full

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Speaker 1: hog as we know it's in the textbook. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I think we should not be pursuing

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Speaker 1: a very aggressive progressive era. All right, Don Visa, thanks

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Speaker 1: very much for joining us, Don Visa. That Moyo there.

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Speaker 1: She is global economists currently serving on the boards of

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Speaker 1: Chevron and three am great to get her views on

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Speaker 1: these issues. Also, she's one of Time magazines one hundred

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Speaker 1: most influential people in the world. This is Bloomberg. You

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Speaker 1: got some economic data out today. US housing starts They

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Speaker 1: felt by more than forecast in April, suggesting that supply

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Speaker 1: chain constraints and rising material costs continue to hold builders back.

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Speaker 1: Let's get some more color on the housing business and

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Speaker 1: the construction business. We do that with Dr Jack Tchung

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Speaker 1: ce Oh of James Hardy Industries. That is a publicly

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Speaker 1: traded company. Uh. Dr Tron, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us here. We've been hearing about supply chain shortages across

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Speaker 1: a number of industries here. As the world's economies begin

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Speaker 1: to ramp up talk to us about those supply chain

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Speaker 1: challenges in the housing market. Good more and Paul, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. UM. Yes, you certainly within the

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Speaker 1: housing industry relative to new construction, is that we have

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Speaker 1: experienced a really the shortage of lumber UM as well

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Speaker 1: as the escalating prices in lumber UM. And then compounding

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Speaker 1: the issue too is that there is anso a lack

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Speaker 1: of labor skill, labor that that that really allowed the

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Speaker 1: builders to to complete those new housing starts. UM. So

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Speaker 1: that's really been an issue that as an industry, particularly

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Speaker 1: a new construction UM that that have been played with

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Speaker 1: during the past six months. So it's not about I mean,

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Speaker 1: you want to build as much as as possible. UM.

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Speaker 1: You want to get out there, get the land, you'll

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Speaker 1: build on spec all no problem, right, because the demand

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Speaker 1: is there. It's just that you don't have the stuff

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Speaker 1: or the people that you need. UM. That's correct, Paul.

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Speaker 1: I mean the the demand has been very strong UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know, just just to give you a little perspective,

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Speaker 1: I mean, UM, there is during the past decade, if

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Speaker 1: if you look at the total new single family constructions

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Speaker 1: UM in the in the US during the past decade,

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Speaker 1: there is only about seven mill millions homes, the single

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Speaker 1: family homes that were built. And and this was really

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Speaker 1: compared to eleven million homes that would build every decade

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Speaker 1: in the previous five decades UM. So certainly you know

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Speaker 1: there is a there's a shortage of new single family

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Speaker 1: homes in the US UM and what the what the

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Speaker 1: trend that we see right now is really just, uh,

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Speaker 1: the market is catching up the the demand is really strong,

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Speaker 1: and then supply is really trying to catch up. You know.

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Speaker 1: The one thing we've been hearing a lot about but

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Speaker 1: I didn't think about it for the construction business is

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Speaker 1: labor shortages. So talk to us about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing for McDonald's or to be raising its

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Speaker 1: minimum wage or Amazon to be raising its minimum wage

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Speaker 1: to attract workers. But I always thought, you know, housing

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Speaker 1: construction jobs were pretty good paying jobs. Talk to us

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Speaker 1: about the labor aspect. Yeah, you know, it's a it

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Speaker 1: is a is a good paying jobs. But you know,

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Speaker 1: within construction because of all all the different type of

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Speaker 1: uh um job that's going on, and you need someone

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Speaker 1: to who have to feel the concrete, to phone the foundation,

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Speaker 1: you need a skill that really do the roof, and

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Speaker 1: the skills person that uh that really put the siding on,

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Speaker 1: the skill person to put on the interior home, the

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Speaker 1: electrician and so on. So so it's really you need

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Speaker 1: to have different type of skill labor to recomplete the home. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it's UM. You know, with the since the last

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Speaker 1: bubble in UM in the housing crisis a decade ago, UM,

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Speaker 1: the industry has lost a few of those labor. And

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Speaker 1: then certainly during the past few years with the restriction

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Speaker 1: on the immigration UM coming from from south of the country,

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Speaker 1: we certainly saw a lack of that labor as well.

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Speaker 1: So it's really a confluence of two factors that really

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Speaker 1: affect the the new home construction in the US today,

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Speaker 1: the lack of lumber and then also the lack of

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Speaker 1: skill labor. But if you're able to get more for homes,

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Speaker 1: I guess you're able to then offer more pay And

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Speaker 1: would that help you attract more labor or is it

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Speaker 1: are they just simply not there? UM? It's it certainly helps,

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Speaker 1: but it's not gonna be able to attract enough labor

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Speaker 1: to UM to complete homes. And it's certainly, like I

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Speaker 1: mentioned before, with the lack of lumber it's also slowly

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Speaker 1: down as well. But you know, how how we think

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Speaker 1: about James Hardy is that you know a third of

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Speaker 1: our business is really exposed to new construction, but the

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Speaker 1: other two thirds really exposed to UH the renovation and

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Speaker 1: UH and then UM market and and for that market

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Speaker 1: is quite strong. UM. It is you know, with the

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Speaker 1: COVID condition that's happening right now, you see a lot

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Speaker 1: more UM folks that stay at home and walk from

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Speaker 1: home and so the really UM having a beauty, beautiful

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Speaker 1: home and then extension of the home will be a

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Speaker 1: key part of of of the growth in that sector. UM.

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Speaker 1: And also with that sector as you renovate your home,

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Speaker 1: the need for lumbers not as critical as it is

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Speaker 1: in new obstruction. Alright, really interesting insight and it was

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Speaker 1: great to get your take on what's going on the industry. Jack,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Dr Jack Drawing, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of James Hardy Industries, get overnight A David Deeds.

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Speaker 1: He's the managing principal and senior portfolio strategist at pe

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Speaker 1: Pack Private Wealth Management. They got about ten billion dollars

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Speaker 1: and assets under management. David, I guess the key question, UH,

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Speaker 1: from thirty five thousand feet is do you see rapid

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Speaker 1: growth um in the reopening and is that accompanied by

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Speaker 1: you know, real temporary, real permanent inflation or is it

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Speaker 1: more of a transient inflation issue. Well, Matt, you put

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Speaker 1: your finger on the sixty dollar question. You know, at

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Speaker 1: this point no one really knows. I think we are

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Speaker 1: seeing rapid growth, notwithstanding the housing start report today with

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Speaker 1: its economy opening up, opening up as the pandemic wanes.

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Speaker 1: We've got huge fiscal stimulus from UH various packages, and

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Speaker 1: there could be a an infrastructure bill on the way,

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Speaker 1: and of course we have record low interest rates. All

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Speaker 1: of that is a real tail wind behind the economy. Now,

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Speaker 1: last week we had two reports consumer prices producer prices,

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Speaker 1: which suggested much faster than expect inflation. But when you

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Speaker 1: do the deep dive, Matt, you see that those alone

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Speaker 1: don't answer your question because of what was driving the increase.

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Speaker 1: It was prices on used cars. It was prices on

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Speaker 1: car rentals and prices on hotel stays. You know, a

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Speaker 1: year ago those industries were left for dead under the lockdown.

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Speaker 1: Of course, now, for example, the use cars were up

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Speaker 1: ten percent, biggest since nineteen fifty three, But something tells

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Speaker 1: us that a year from now we're not going to

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Speaker 1: see another ten percent uh hike in used car prices.

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Speaker 1: We think it's a temporary thing. So who knows? You

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Speaker 1: know this is this is the question. You can't rule

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Speaker 1: either scenario completely out, Matt David. We're just finishing up

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Speaker 1: what has been a very strong earnings reporting season, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks are saying, boy, we certainly needed that,

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Speaker 1: we need more of it because this is an expensive market.

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Speaker 1: This is a market that maybe these needs to grow

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Speaker 1: into its multiple. How do you think about valuation here, Well,

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Speaker 1: evaluations are at the upper bounds of what we've historically seen,

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Speaker 1: close to twenty two times forward earnings UM, and when

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Speaker 1: you look at other metrics like price to sales, like

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Speaker 1: the value of the entire stock market relatives to the GDP,

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Speaker 1: we're off the charts. On the other hand, it's all

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Speaker 1: justifiable because of these low interest rates. But we also

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Speaker 1: have UM, as you pointed out, great corporate earnings growth,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're gonna see Q two going to

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Speaker 1: again have great earnings growth because of course, the comparisons

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Speaker 1: are gonna be versus the second quarter last year when

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Speaker 1: we're virtually on lockdown. But then you're gonna see still

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Speaker 1: positive but slowing earnings growth in the second half of

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Speaker 1: this year, and positive but again slower growth next year

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Speaker 1: in two thousand twenty two, And that's where the rubber

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Speaker 1: is going to hit the road. Will that earnings growth

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Speaker 1: continue to be sufficient to withstand these higher multiples? I

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Speaker 1: think of interest rates continued low? Yes, If not, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a stock biggers market. That's the point.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this market is priced for a um, no

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Speaker 1: more lockdowns, right, a total and complete reopening and be

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Speaker 1: um no interest rate increases from the FED or really

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Speaker 1: even uh tapering until what the end of two Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that's right, and so the way

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Speaker 1: we've been, you know the but the problem is, of course,

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Speaker 1: Matt is if not stocks, then what cryptospacs, money markets?

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Speaker 1: You know, there's no easy choices here. So I think

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Speaker 1: we're continuing to stay stay say, stay the course, but

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Speaker 1: perhaps to your PORTFOLI to those areas of the market

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Speaker 1: which have not done so well for the last ten years,

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Speaker 1: but with a rapidly expanding economy, with interest rates starting

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Speaker 1: to move up with a whiff of inflation, could do better.

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Speaker 1: Those are your cyclical names, your value names. Those may

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Speaker 1: be the best bets going forward. All right, Dan, I

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Speaker 1: know you're not not afraid to talk names here. Given

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Speaker 1: a backdrop that you see out there in terms of inflation,

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Speaker 1: in terms of rates. What are some of the names

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Speaker 1: you guys are doing some work on these days. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So we like a name like all State. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, here's a company that about ten times s

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Speaker 1: eartings with a yield about two and a half percent,

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Speaker 1: so you're getting a full one percent more than that

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Speaker 1: ten year treasury. Uh. They've had better than expected claims

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Speaker 1: experience because of course no one was driving. But there's

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Speaker 1: no reason why that company can't continue to grow with

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Speaker 1: a prosperous economy. And of course they're only paying out

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Speaker 1: about twenty of their profits in the fourth dividends. That

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Speaker 1: they can crank that dividend up. It seems if someone said, well,

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Speaker 1: five years from now, you're gonna be better off of

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Speaker 1: the ten year treasure, you're gonna be better all in

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Speaker 1: a company like all State, All State looks good. Um. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, we also like a company like General Motors

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Speaker 1: because of course, you know, uh, to the extent that

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Speaker 1: the semiconductor, uh supply permits. They're just selling cars as

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Speaker 1: fast as they can make them. GM very low valuation.

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Speaker 1: They too, like Tesla of course moving to the e

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Speaker 1: V space, but they're not prices though. They're gonna be

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Speaker 1: a big TV player, but of course they will be ultimately.

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Speaker 1: So we think GM makes a lot of sense here.

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Speaker 1: I just got about thirty seconds. Still like Viacom CBS.

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Speaker 1: It's hot day for them today. Um, but you know

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Speaker 1: this is one this is one of the socks that

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Speaker 1: Bill Wang got burned on. Well yeah he did. I

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Speaker 1: mean the stock got up too close to a hundred.

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Speaker 1: Viacom quite astutely sold stock to institutional investors at eight five.

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Speaker 1: What were they thinking, Well, guess what is it better

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Speaker 1: buy now when it's in the low forties. And I

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Speaker 1: think the um appeal of the entertainment and media and

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Speaker 1: content stocks was underscored first of course with the Warner

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Speaker 1: Media and Discovery combination. And of course today we just

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Speaker 1: learned that Amazon is looking at the MGM studios for

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Speaker 1: their content and so forth. So it makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense. All right, David, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. As always, we appreciate you, appreciate your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on the market and the names you're looking at. David

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Speaker 1: Deet's managing principle and senior portfolio strategists at Pepeck Private

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Speaker 1: Wealth Management, located in beautiful Bucolic Summit, New Jersey. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg, all right. The news of the day, I

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Speaker 1: think is, you know, as it relates to Global Wall Street,

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Speaker 1: is what's going on at JP Morgan and putting two

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Speaker 1: of the contenders vying to succeed chief executive Jamie Diamond

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Speaker 1: in charge of its sprawling consumer banking operation. Let's get

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Speaker 1: some color on thatw We bring in Allison Williams. She's

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Speaker 1: a senior banks analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. She's been following

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Speaker 1: this industry for decades, both on the by side in

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Speaker 1: the South side. She knows all the players here. So Alison,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. Um, Jamie Dimon

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Speaker 1: is not going anywhere soon, is he? But I guess

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Speaker 1: they're still trying to think about some succession plans. Is

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Speaker 1: that's what's going on here? Sure? So you know Jamie

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Speaker 1: Diamond's infamous line is every time someone asked him how

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Speaker 1: long he's going to stay on, he always says five

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Speaker 1: more years. And he says that every year. UM. So uh,

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Speaker 1: they'll be conferences in the coming weeks and we'll see

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Speaker 1: if he continues to say that. So the big news

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Speaker 1: really is, um, you know, obviously the promotion of the

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Speaker 1: two former CFOs to head the Consumer Bank. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think because people have been watching, especially Marianne Um

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Speaker 1: Lake who was a longtime CFO. She was replaced by

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Speaker 1: jen Keepsack um more recently. UM, And so I think

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Speaker 1: you know, all eyes are on these two women to

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Speaker 1: see if one of them will become the contender. UM. However,

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Speaker 1: for the moment, Um Pinto is really the Soul six user.

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Speaker 1: So UM, just just to hopefully I'm being clear that UM,

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Speaker 1: Pinto and Smith were basically the co leaders of the bank.

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Speaker 1: Smith is retiring, which puts Pinto in the air apparent position.

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Speaker 1: But I think all eyes are on, um, the two

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Speaker 1: former CFOs who were promoted to have the Consumer Bank,

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Speaker 1: to see if one of those women will rise to

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Speaker 1: be the new CEO. So, just to recap, then we're

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Speaker 1: saying Pinto is the successor is the air apparent right now?

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Speaker 1: But we're watching Marianne Lake and Jennifer peep Sack in

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Speaker 1: case they want not Pinto office pedestal. Well, it depends, right,

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Speaker 1: So like, let's say that Diamonds stepped down tomorrow, Pinto

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Speaker 1: is obviously the air apparents. Um. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: went back a few years ago, UM, it would have

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Speaker 1: been Pinto or Smith. I think that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: putting Marianne Late and Jen Peepsack in charge of the

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Speaker 1: Consumer Bank sort of puts them into a runoff, right. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: let's say, jaman so Jamie Diamond steps down tomorrow, Pinto's

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Speaker 1: in charge. We wait five more years, as Jamie always does.

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Speaker 1: Over the next couple of years, we would expect, um

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Speaker 1: that either Lake or peep Sack rises to be the

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Speaker 1: um leader of the Consumer Bank. Um, and then there's

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Speaker 1: sort of a runoff between that leader and Pinto Alison.

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Speaker 1: What does the market think about the tenure or the

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Speaker 1: or the I guess the future with Jamie Diamond. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously Jamie Diamond is is you know rock Star CEO

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Speaker 1: has delivered for shareholders? Um. I presume shareholders are extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: supportive of him. In theory, do they want him to

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Speaker 1: stay as long as he wants to and as long

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Speaker 1: as he continues to perform they do, UM, but I

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Speaker 1: think they also do recognize UM that there is a

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Speaker 1: very strong bench. I would say that, you know, all

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Speaker 1: three of the people that UM we discussed are very

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Speaker 1: well respected UM on Wall Street, UM, Pinto and Lake

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Speaker 1: perhaps a little bit better known because of UM they're

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Speaker 1: more forward facing walls over a longer period of time.

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Speaker 1: Is he the most beloved major Wall Street CEO? I mean,

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Speaker 1: the most revered. I don't know what what word to use,

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Speaker 1: but he's basically the man to watch on Wall Street? Right? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the He's the only CEO commandaged through both of

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Speaker 1: the recent crisis, right, So, UM he managed to the

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Speaker 1: prior crisis. UM. You know, Lloyd Blankfine had had stucked

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Speaker 1: down and paved the way for Solomon, which was actually

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Speaker 1: a good transition period, right because when Solomon was in place,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's that's sort of what they wanted,

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Speaker 1: is to have the new Seaton in place when the

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Speaker 1: next crisis happened. So, and I would remind you that

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Speaker 1: actually in the beginning of this crisis, about a year ago,

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Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond was in the hospital at all and Pinto

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Speaker 1: and Smith we're actually running the bank as co CEOs

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Speaker 1: for a period of time. So um, you know now, uh,

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Speaker 1: Pinjo will be the one that has that experience going forward.

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Speaker 1: All right, Alice, thanks so much for joining us. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciated that you must be very busy today considering everything

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Speaker 1: that that we're up against. Alison Williams, Senior analyst for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three. Put on full Sweeney

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney before the podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.