WEBVTT - Who to Believe?!

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<v Speaker 1>Crime and hello social Sluice and welcome back to another

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<v Speaker 1>amazing episode of Real Time Crime. I'm your host, Lee Lamar,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have with me my amazing co host, Teddy Mellencamp,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've got, of course are sometimes Dmitri. Hello. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>I am a little concerned because Teddy didn't take as

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<v Speaker 1>long as a beat before her name, which means she's

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<v Speaker 1>sitting on something hot. I am sitting on something so hot.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even wait until the hot topics because this

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<v Speaker 1>is this is, this is flaming topics. So last night

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<v Speaker 1>I stayed at past my bedtime just to text. I

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<v Speaker 1>almost thought it was a fake Teddy mellon Camp. I

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<v Speaker 1>was so invested. If you know Teddy, you know she

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<v Speaker 1>wakes up at five am to go for a run,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm usually going to sleep at five am, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>But last night I got a text message from our

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<v Speaker 1>very only a Lamar here about someone that slid into

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<v Speaker 1>her d M S drum pro Chris Cuomo. Dmitri's face

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<v Speaker 1>immediately felt to a frown. No, I mean it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a frown. It's I'm concerned as to what was said. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what we're trying to descipher and I'm all at Leah

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<v Speaker 1>speaking for herself in a second, but I just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to close that she's definitely going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it. I need her to read through some of

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<v Speaker 1>these damns back and forth because we are trying to

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<v Speaker 1>decipher if it we know it's from his Instagram account.

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<v Speaker 1>We have decipher that. But what we need to know

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<v Speaker 1>the crime of today is is this a hacker or

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Cuomo. All I'm gonna say, and then Leah you

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<v Speaker 1>take it from here, is the punctuation is a real

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<v Speaker 1>problem for me. Okay. So Chris Cuomo follows me on Instagram,

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<v Speaker 1>already followed you or just followed you, just followed me,

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you to me to for asking the important details. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna have a lot of questions. I can tell

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<v Speaker 1>you that already. Oh I'm certain that. Okay. So Monday

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<v Speaker 1>morning six four am, which East Coast time schedule yet precisely,

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess he hasn't really done his research on

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<v Speaker 1>me the hacker or Chris Cuomo. Okay, So it says

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing a deep dive on what generates games with

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<v Speaker 1>his z on this and other platforms. You are missing

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<v Speaker 1>an algorithm element I can explain. I am a fan

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<v Speaker 1>period of your stand up and podcast, no period, I

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<v Speaker 1>heard it said. I said, is this Chris or a hacker?

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<v Speaker 1>Either way, go on Cuomo and they said, and thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be coming an NYC soon if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>come see a live show. He said, it is Chris Cuomo.

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<v Speaker 1>No one else wants to be me dot dot dot

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<v Speaker 1>right now, no punctuation. Well, that leads me to believe

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<v Speaker 1>it's true. There's more. This just isn't stop here. That

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<v Speaker 1>would have kept me out past. Here's the thing, because

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<v Speaker 1>he said right now, If he just said no one

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<v Speaker 1>else wants to be me, I would have leaned towards hacker.

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<v Speaker 1>When he said right now, leads me to believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it gets worse. Okay, your followers likely jumped because

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<v Speaker 1>the content generate a spike that triggered an algorithm that

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<v Speaker 1>increases placement. I ha ha on it. And then he said,

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<v Speaker 1>and your podcast is interesting. How did you get involved

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<v Speaker 1>with crime? I took a beat. Also, you have to

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<v Speaker 1>tell us she made it restricted so he couldn't see

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<v Speaker 1>how quickly she read them. Okay, good call. So then,

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<v Speaker 1>which was immediately So then I said, I'm headlining Caroline

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<v Speaker 1>soon in May. I'll let you know and get you

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<v Speaker 1>some seats. I mean, I just got to know if

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<v Speaker 1>this is the real Chris Cuomo, you know. But also

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very interested in finding out the truth. Slash have

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<v Speaker 1>had some mysteries in my family that left me unsettled,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've always wanted to find answers or have a

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<v Speaker 1>conjugal visit. Who's to say, oh, because I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>laugh at that, but I know it's not a joke.

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<v Speaker 1>Then then at this point, I say, Leah, I need

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<v Speaker 1>you to send a voice note and we need him

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<v Speaker 1>to get to a voice note back because we need

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<v Speaker 1>to confirm or deny if this is Chris or like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just calling Chris now, my buddy Chris. Um, So

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<v Speaker 1>she sent a voice note. She sent a voice note,

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<v Speaker 1>but then he didn't listen to the voice note and

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<v Speaker 1>continued on messaging. Um, he did listen to the voice note,

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<v Speaker 1>he just didn't respond with a voice note. Oh so

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<v Speaker 1>it's been played now, Yeah, he played it, okay. So

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<v Speaker 1>so I also sent you a late night message that

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't think that you would see because I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>if she's still awake, this is a fake Teddy. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>now you're just going down the rabbit hole and everyone's fake,

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<v Speaker 1>fake Teddy melon Cam. What's real in my line? You

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<v Speaker 1>need to go to the next line because this is

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<v Speaker 1>the part that really steals. And it's got to be

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<v Speaker 1>a I mean, could it really be him? And him

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<v Speaker 1>say this? We are you talking about the question marks?

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<v Speaker 1>Or before that the P word? Okay, So we'll skip

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<v Speaker 1>ahead just a couple of sentences, but basically he says,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm funny, and then he asks about the podcast. He

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<v Speaker 1>wants to know what works on the podcast. Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>he asked how the podcast does, and I said, the

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<v Speaker 1>pod does right. And this is when I leave a

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<v Speaker 1>voice note, and I say, Chris, be honest, are you

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<v Speaker 1>just asking to be a guest on the podcast? You

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<v Speaker 1>know what, I'll even play the voice note, Chris, to

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<v Speaker 1>be honest, are you asking if you can be a

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<v Speaker 1>guest on the pop? I can't even finished cast. You're

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<v Speaker 1>too busy. You just had to say I was driving

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<v Speaker 1>to a show, Teddy okay, And he says, no, what

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<v Speaker 1>does great mean? Why am I asking? Because I'm getting

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<v Speaker 1>a feel for the space. No, No, there's there's more.

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<v Speaker 1>So I say, well, I was gonna say you're welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to come on. This is no insult, no no offense

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<v Speaker 1>to us. But if Chris Cuomo wants to do research

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<v Speaker 1>on pods, he has other options. But even then, if

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<v Speaker 1>it's a hacker, like to what does this hacker want you?

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<v Speaker 1>You have to then continue on. Okay, So then I

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<v Speaker 1>say what do you I say, what do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to know about specifically? And then he said thanks, because

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<v Speaker 1>let me go back. I said, well, I was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>say you're welcome to come on. What do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to know about? Specific He said thank you as a purpose?

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<v Speaker 1>How many downloads a week per month? And then I

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<v Speaker 1>don't respond, and twenty minutes later he sends four question marks.

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<v Speaker 1>At this point I say, do not give your credit

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<v Speaker 1>card information. I don't, and don't tell them you like

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<v Speaker 1>your childhood pet's name if you ask for that. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>tell him your PIN number. We know you Lee, You're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna cough it all up. Don't tell him anything, and

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<v Speaker 1>everyone knows my password is one to three four Lelah.

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<v Speaker 1>That's actually mine too. But anyway, so that's the story

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<v Speaker 1>of how we almost got Chris Cuomo on this podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>But then I had to go take matters into my

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<v Speaker 1>own hands, see if Chris Cuomo was still married, all

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<v Speaker 1>the things. I spent hours researching him after this um,

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<v Speaker 1>only to come up with the conclusion that this crime

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<v Speaker 1>is committed by hacker. But she wasn't. Damn. I checked

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<v Speaker 1>my d M s. Nothing, nothing from don't know. You

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<v Speaker 1>should Instagram just sometimes I should. Yeah, you should sometimes, Dmitri,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe more people would follow you. Well, okay, So then

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<v Speaker 1>I said to Teddy, I think the only reason he

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't reached out too is because you're married. So then

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<v Speaker 1>that's when Teddy checked to see if Chris Cuoma was

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<v Speaker 1>still married, which he is. I think the hacker just

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<v Speaker 1>thinks I'm more gullible than you. I'm more likely to

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<v Speaker 1>give him all my bitcoin. In fairness, you do weekly

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<v Speaker 1>talk about wanting to hook up with cons and conjugal visits,

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<v Speaker 1>and I mean, you do that interest, So yeah, go on,

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<v Speaker 1>Teddy SR your voice cracked. I am a prepubescent boy,

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<v Speaker 1>so that checks out. I mean, if I'm a hacker

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<v Speaker 1>listening to this podcast, Teddy's talking about her husband putting

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<v Speaker 1>in a big security system, and You're like, I would

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<v Speaker 1>love to hook up with a felon. So if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm narrowing it down to who's an easier target, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's you. I've always imagined if a robber was in

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<v Speaker 1>my house that they would just start like laughing in

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<v Speaker 1>the closet because I'm just always doing the most radium,

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<v Speaker 1>just listening to my comedy sets out loud, just being like, LEYO,

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<v Speaker 1>what y'a do today? You know, I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>someone was up late watching old Chris Pombo videos. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we need to ask one additional question of Chris. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>which is your favorite episode of the pod? I thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was going to be if you could be one

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<v Speaker 1>Seinfeld character, which would it be? Who does everyone choose?

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it's a Lane, right, I was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>say a Lane, but I mean, yeah, probably a Lane,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess. Or Jerry. Yeah. I mean I love Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Alexander very much and I think he's hilarious, but I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think anyone would want to be George's torture. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say Jerry. The only reason I might lean lean

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<v Speaker 1>towards Cramer is because the guys just living by his

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<v Speaker 1>own rules. He doesn't care, He's oblivious to what everybody

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<v Speaker 1>thinks about him. Like that's kind of a blissful way

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<v Speaker 1>to live through life. That's a very sometimes thing of

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<v Speaker 1>you to say, and this is why you're not oftentimes yea.

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<v Speaker 1>And that just brings us into the hot topics for today.

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<v Speaker 1>Other than the smoldering topic we just had. Today, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be discussing a heist on the set of the

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<v Speaker 1>Crown of Florida pageant volunteer stealing money, a child found

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<v Speaker 1>dead in a freezer in Las Vegas, a questionable juror

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<v Speaker 1>from the Scott Peterson case. And finally, we have an

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<v Speaker 1>amazing guest today who's the host of Crime Scene Confidential

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<v Speaker 1>and I d who will be taking a deep die

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<v Speaker 1>with us on the Casey Anthony trial. Uh sorry, Teddy,

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<v Speaker 1>is it me or was that the first time this

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Cuomo things I think hitting Or is this the

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<v Speaker 1>first time she read the hot topics like really newsy? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Like she it's it's gone to her head, She's like,

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<v Speaker 1>and she then if you're tuning in, just so you

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<v Speaker 1>guys know, I have had contact with Chris Cuomo, So

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<v Speaker 1>I just feel a little bit like I know more

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<v Speaker 1>about the news and I am on my high horse.

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<v Speaker 1>Well then I expect not to hear any song at

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<v Speaker 1>the end with that one you call us at the Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that's asking for a lot today. Um, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you want to lead us in. Sure, let me over myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Chris Cuomo has a DM ME so I still

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<v Speaker 1>can't read. Um. Heist on the set of The Crown

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<v Speaker 1>sees thieves steal over two hundred thousand dollars worth of

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<v Speaker 1>antique props. These have stolen over two hundred thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 1>worth of props from the Netflix series The Crown while

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<v Speaker 1>the production was shooting nearby. Over three items were taken

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<v Speaker 1>during the highest, including a Faberge egg, a grandfather clock,

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<v Speaker 1>a dressing table. You get the picture. Um, the items

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<v Speaker 1>stolen are not necessarily in the best condition and therefore

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<v Speaker 1>of limited value of resell. The Crown set director told

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<v Speaker 1>the gazette. UM, I mean this is flaming hot. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you think this was an inside job? What did they

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<v Speaker 1>say was missing? I'm just curious. My question is do

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<v Speaker 1>you think this was an inside job? If so, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, But don't you think then they would know

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<v Speaker 1>that these items weren't expensive for resale or no total?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean together they're two dollars, right, yeah, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think they're difficult to sell because they're not in great condition,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can't also sell them all together. That I

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<v Speaker 1>mean that kind of cused people, and that you're the

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<v Speaker 1>one that stole the items, right, I would think so,

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<v Speaker 1>And I know, you know, didn't Netflix say they Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I just think, you know, it's definitely an inside job,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe someone is just really into this time period,

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<v Speaker 1>like making a special room in their house. Maybe it could.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we go to a scape room, We're like, huh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's interesting. Do you think if we looked into it,

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<v Speaker 1>we find out that the prop master had been d

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<v Speaker 1>M me with Chris Cuomo and suddenly all this stuff disappeared.

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<v Speaker 1>Could be? Could be? Can you get into Miss Florida please?

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to get into Miss Florida, you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Florida Scholarship director allegedly still Actually it's interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>later in the article it says she's a volunteer, So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if he's a director or a volunteer,

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<v Speaker 1>but either way, she's still one thousand dollars from the

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.839
<v Speaker 1>program to pay for shopping sprees and dating sites. Drum roll,

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 1>how old do we think this person is? I don't know.

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess i'd say Teddy seventy six, guys, Teddy learned

0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.719
<v Speaker 1>how to read in the last two minutes. Okay. So.

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>As executive director of the Miss Florida Scholarship Program, Mary

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Wickersham codrolled donors and oversaw, a non for profit organization

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 1>that funded scholarships for young women who competed in pagets.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>But when she needed money to support her own lifestyle,

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 1>according to prosecutors, she stole it. I'm just trying it

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>on for size. Hows it feel? It felt a little

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 1>forced there and see what happens. Okay. Between December, j

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Wickersham seventy six spend at least a hundred thousand that

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>belonged to the nonprofit other charities to cover her personal

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 1>expenses for shopping, home goods, made, cleaning services, dining out,

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 1>online dating fees, and other costs She goes by either

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Mary Sullivan and Mary Harvey. Was arrested Tuesday on seven

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>accounts of wire fraud. You guys, I just want to say,

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>first and foremost, let the woman live. She's on dating

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 1>sites at seventy six. Just let her have this. She

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 1>took hundred dollars to do it. I she know she

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>should reach out to she should swipe right or whatever

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 1>it is that you're supposed to swipe the Tinder swindler.

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 1>I think that she made a combination of the Tinder

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.520
<v Speaker 1>swindler and Anna delbe. Oh my, we still need to

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:22.320
<v Speaker 1>get into Anna delb on another day because that I have,

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 1>we haven't gotten her on the pod yet. I know what,

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Anna Delbie, please reach out or any of your friends.

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 1>They use their own credit cards or their bosses. Guys

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Chris Cuomo could be listening. This is pathetic. It's not pathetic. Also,

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to drop in the chat um An image,

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.200
<v Speaker 1>but it won't let me. I just I feel like

0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>everyone needs to see this. Why wouldn't let me do this? Is?

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 1>It isn't Mary, It's even better. It's even if you

0:15:54.880 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 1>can imagine. Okay, hold on, yes me and I forgot

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 1>you are a beauty pageant gal. So here's when I

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:18.600
<v Speaker 1>confessed to my crime. What what are these shoes? Only

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>issue there? Pageant? I mean there's a lot of issues,

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 1>like the bracelet with the bathing suit, but I don't

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 1>know what it's like. Who do I think I am

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>wonder woman in a swimsuit? What is that? Yeah, um, no,

0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>you didn't know that. Leah wasn't what was it, miss

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.480
<v Speaker 1>new York, Miss New York. I mean she wasn't missed

0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 1>New York, but she's in the past. No, I was

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 1>missed New York. If I had competed in a a synagogue,

0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 1>you know I would have won, but up against New

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 1>York's finest, I I didn't even place top twenty. But

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I will tell you what I did win. I won

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 1>in a word for my writing, which is not the

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 1>thing you want to win at a beauty pageant. I

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.119
<v Speaker 1>didn't even know there was writing a category, and the

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>beauty pageant, yeah, they don't show it to anyone. But

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.919
<v Speaker 1>I sent in an essay about me and my accomplishments

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and what I was doing for the world, which was

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 1>honestly not much. But compared to everyone else, I think

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 1>I was killing it. And moral of the story is

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 1>they gave me a word from my brain. So this

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 1>this hurts to this day. But can we also talk

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 1>about the fact that I had my abs had abs.

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 1>I know this is your extremely. I look like the

0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>tow Why don't you put this? I'm you need to

0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>post this phone out and say what running for Miss California.

0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Now try I don't know um this at this point

0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:56.919
<v Speaker 1>there at what you're the pageant writing winner, come up

0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.160
<v Speaker 1>with something that's your bio. Paget writing winner. I think

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.679
<v Speaker 1>I weighed maybe forty pounds more now than I do

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 1>in this photo. I would be cat fishing people. Um well,

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.720
<v Speaker 1>which brings us to the next heartbreaking hot topic from

0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 1>a People magazine article. Las Vegas child found dead in

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.479
<v Speaker 1>a freezer after sibling hands a teacher a note asking

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.800
<v Speaker 1>for help to send home. Las Vegas authorities have arrested

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.399
<v Speaker 1>a thirty five year old man after allegedly finding the

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.720
<v Speaker 1>body of a young boy and a freezer in his garage.

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Online court records confirmed that Brandon Tooselin was charged Tuesday

0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>with two counts of first degree kidnapping. Homicide. Detectives are

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 1>handling the investigation after the discovery of the boy's body

0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Tuesday afternoon. Las Vegas Metropolitan Police have yet to release

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 1>the victim's name or age. UM Oh my gosh, I

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.040
<v Speaker 1>can't um the note there was a note had handed

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.159
<v Speaker 1>to the elementary school teacher. The note was written by

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.560
<v Speaker 1>the girl's mother and explained that her boyfriend had been

0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.639
<v Speaker 1>holding her against her will inside their home, the lieutenant

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 1>told the paper. Additionally, the mother wrote in the note

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.840
<v Speaker 1>that she did not know where the girl's brother was

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 1>and believed he was likely deceased. The teacher reported the

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.159
<v Speaker 1>distressing note to police around eight am Tuesday, and the

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.719
<v Speaker 1>officers dispatched to the neighborhood stopped at Towson's car at

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.919
<v Speaker 1>around ten am. Toselin was taken into custody and police

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.440
<v Speaker 1>spoke to the victim's mother, who told them she hadn't

0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.120
<v Speaker 1>seen her son since since December eleventh. The paper reports.

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.960
<v Speaker 1>She also allegedly accused Hoselin of months of physical abuse.

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 1>After Tilson's arrest, police executed a search warrant of the

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>home and in the garage found the dead child in

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the freezer. Toselin is not the father of the Veil

0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.359
<v Speaker 1>mctam victim or his sister. Spencer told the paper that

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 1>the mother had been barred from entering the garage. He

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.880
<v Speaker 1>also said Tosin will likely face a murder charge when

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.879
<v Speaker 1>he's arraigned this morning. Toselin has yet to enter please

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.040
<v Speaker 1>to the kidnapping charges, and information on his lawyers was

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.400
<v Speaker 1>not available. Spencer told the papers detectives would be looking

0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.640
<v Speaker 1>into whether the mother was involved in the boy's death.

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You got so heartbreaking this. It's just so I can't

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 1>even imagine with the mother and the sister are going

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 1>through right now and what they've been going through. Is

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.800
<v Speaker 1>this is what happened to the brother. It I have

0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 1>so many questions about it though, because apparently they rested

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.119
<v Speaker 1>him in his car, which means he left the house.

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.600
<v Speaker 1>So my question was, was she locked in the house?

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Was she you know he was she was barred from

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.679
<v Speaker 1>going to the garage, But does that mean that there

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.439
<v Speaker 1>was a lock on the garage or I just it

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>feels like definitely if. I mean, I have no idea,

0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 1>but maybe she's just definitely afraid. I mean, I think

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 1>if you're being abused, I know, but I still weren't

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 1>all the information. I just feel like they're more details

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 1>that they're not giving us. I'm sure more will come

0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 1>out in time, and that will hear. This is not

0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 1>the end of this case that we're hearing about, for sure.

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 1>And this is so tragic. The fact that she wrote

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 1>the note to give to her daughter, to give to

0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 1>her teacher. I can't even imagine being the teacher receiving

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.280
<v Speaker 1>that note, well, thank god that the teacher did something

0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 1>about it, because she could have very well thought, oh,

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.720
<v Speaker 1>this is not you know what I mean that I've heard.

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>I've heard stories before where teachers have gotten information and

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 1>assumed that it wasn't true. That's that's a pretty heavy

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>note to get and be like, oh, you know, well,

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.360
<v Speaker 1>like I mean, you're right, Thank thank goodness that she did.

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:32.159
<v Speaker 1>But we'll remember the case with um the boy that

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.440
<v Speaker 1>was in California and the teacher had been told multiple

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.359
<v Speaker 1>times and just it happens so well. It's kind of

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 1>a similar thing too, when people confess to murders that

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:46.879
<v Speaker 1>they didn't confess to. I think I think at some

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.360
<v Speaker 1>point sometimes kids they just think that kids make things up,

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:52.919
<v Speaker 1>or they've seen something in a movie or you know,

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 1>and that's why they deny the truth. You know, there's

0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.480
<v Speaker 1>always some sort of weird element there. But thank god

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 1>she took the seriously. And I'm I'm praying that the

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 1>mother is not involved and that is it's all. Ah,

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 1>that's maybe we just moved. Yeah, we'll just we'll just

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.480
<v Speaker 1>keep it. But I'm sure we'll hear more about this

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.840
<v Speaker 1>case in the future. Okay, So I'm sure you guys

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>have heard all about this already. But if not, there's

0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>a juror in the Scott Peterson case who's an emotional

0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 1>wreck who wanted him to pay extra testifies. When the

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 1>alternate juror first walked into the deliberations room nearly eighteen

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>years ago, she blurted out that Scott Peterson, on trial

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:40.880
<v Speaker 1>for the killing of his pregnant wife and unborn son,

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.880
<v Speaker 1>should pay for killing the little man. A former juror

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 1>in the notorious case testified Tuesday, we were like, whoa

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 1>wha before you try to give us your opinion. We

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.880
<v Speaker 1>have a kind of process for mar jur Greg burrat

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>List testified anyone walking in and saying, hey, guilty or

0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 1>not guilty. We gave everyone equal respect to discuss it.

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Also Tuesday, the judge postponed until March the remainder of

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.280
<v Speaker 1>the evidentiary hearing that was supposed to end this week,

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.440
<v Speaker 1>giving Peterson's lawyers more time to determine whether Nice first

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.359
<v Speaker 1>discussed a book deal before the trial concluded. The murder

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>convictions in the deaths of Peterson's wife, Lazy, and unborn

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.360
<v Speaker 1>son they planned to name Connor, were upheld. However, their

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:24.800
<v Speaker 1>bodies washed up separately in April two thousand three along

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.119
<v Speaker 1>the Richmond shoreline close to her. Peterson told police he

0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:30.880
<v Speaker 1>had been fishing the Christmas eve his wife had vanished.

0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:33.919
<v Speaker 1>Peterson is now serving life without parole and is housed

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 1>in a Redwood City jail. During his latest appeal, he

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>appeared in court wearing a red jail suit and shackles

0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 1>every day this week. I don't know why that detail mattered,

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 1>but here we are. I guess Red is the new Orange. Okay.

0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Nice spent Friday and Monday on the witness stand defending

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 1>herself from accusations that she hit her history of domestic

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>violence issues to get on the trial. Although her then

0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 1>boyfriend pled no contest in domestic abuse or does a

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.679
<v Speaker 1>couple of years before the Peterson trial, she testified that

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 1>she was the aggressor and never considered herself a victim. Nonetheless,

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Peterson lawyer Pat Harris, who represented him in the original

0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 1>try in two thousand four four, try to show Tuesday that,

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.360
<v Speaker 1>along with hiding her past, Nice, known to journalists as

0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Strawberry Shortcake love the media for her bright red dyed hair,

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.119
<v Speaker 1>sought to get on the trail from notoriety am I

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:27.600
<v Speaker 1>turning it to Teddy from notoriety and financial reasons. Under

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:31.440
<v Speaker 1>questioning um, it was said that Nice seemed to enjoy

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.120
<v Speaker 1>the attention she received coming and going from the Redwood

0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 1>City Courthouse. As you guys think that, I mean, this

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:41.640
<v Speaker 1>is insane. I'm sorry, but didn't this happen in two

0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 1>thousand and three? Why are they just bringing this up now?

0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:50.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not like this is new information. It's media propaganda

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.359
<v Speaker 1>to get us focused away from looking at all the

0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:56.639
<v Speaker 1>things that are actually wrong with the American government and

0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:00.040
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy theories. I don't know. Also, I do want to

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.960
<v Speaker 1>point out that you enunciated um dyed red hair as

0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 1>if that was well, it could be a red herring, Okay.

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I also is it is it Nice or niece? I

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 1>can't I know. I mean, I could have looked it

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 1>up beforehand, but here we are. So do you think

0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:22.800
<v Speaker 1>that they're going to grant Peterson a new trial based

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:28.680
<v Speaker 1>on this juror's biased opinion, allegedly biased opinion? I mean,

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:33.040
<v Speaker 1>who knows, But I feel like eighteen years is a

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:37.080
<v Speaker 1>pretty long time without any new evidence. I'm sorry, but

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.200
<v Speaker 1>even if he was granted a new trial, what's worse

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:44.440
<v Speaker 1>than a life without parole death sentence, right, I don't,

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think that anyone would think that he's

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>not guilty at this point. And also, did he have

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>highlighted hair again or was it his natural color when

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 1>he was in the red jumpsuit. I'm just wondering if

0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 1>he could come to trial with frosted tips might make

0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>him more likable. I'm also I don't want to know

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 1>the obvious if you think he's attractive. UM. On that note,

0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.359
<v Speaker 1>we should take a little break before we bring in

0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:10.639
<v Speaker 1>our very special guest. Let's cut her off with a

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 1>break real quick before she answers that wait is that

0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:31.439
<v Speaker 1>Chris Cuomo? Okay, yeah, and we're back. Guys, hope you

0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 1>didn't commit any crimes in the commercial break. You're listening

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 1>to Real Time Crime. I'm Leo Lamar. We've got Teddy

0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Mellencamp here sometimes Dmitri, and we finally have our incredible

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:46.159
<v Speaker 1>guests for today that we are all so excited about. You. Guys,

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 1>our guest has investigated some of the country's most shocking crimes,

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.080
<v Speaker 1>having served as a c s I for the Orange

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.879
<v Speaker 1>County Sheriff's Office on the investigation into the tragic two

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:01.080
<v Speaker 1>th eight death of toddler Kaylee Anthon me and worked

0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:04.200
<v Speaker 1>as part of an emergency community response to identify the

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:09.600
<v Speaker 1>victims of the Pulse nightclub tragedy. She is the host

0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and star of the new show crime Scene Confidential on

0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.879
<v Speaker 1>I D. It follows her as she utilizes her scientific

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:19.280
<v Speaker 1>expertise to revisit some of America's most shocking and controversial

0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:24.120
<v Speaker 1>cases by exploring the complexity surrounding each item of forensic evidence,

0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:27.480
<v Speaker 1>navigating the tactics used by the prosecution and the defense,

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:30.560
<v Speaker 1>and speaking with central figures in the case, whether they're

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 1>the victims of the loved ones or the convicted perpetrators themselves.

0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:38.240
<v Speaker 1>She strives to bring clarity and closure to those who

0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:42.480
<v Speaker 1>feel the immeasurable loss of these horrific crimes. And today

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 1>we have with us our wonderful guests Elena Burrows. Hi, Lena, Hey,

0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.200
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for having me. We're so counting

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 1>down the days until marje Wait. You and me both

0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:03.000
<v Speaker 1>so incredible to have you here with us. We're so excited.

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.280
<v Speaker 1>And we also know that the first episode of Crime

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Scene Confidential covers all the details of the Casey Anthony

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:13.800
<v Speaker 1>case and Teddy and I obviously have a million questions,

0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:18.399
<v Speaker 1>and I already see you NodD in your head. You're like, yes, okay, alright,

0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad we're all on the same page already. And

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 1>for those of you who may not know about the

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Keyley and Casey Anthony. Case Casey Anthony was the mother

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:27.480
<v Speaker 1>of Kaylee Anthony, who was missing for thirty one days

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and ultimately was found debt so. Casey Anthony was living

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 1>in Orlando, Florida, with her maternal grandparents and Casey's mom

0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:41.680
<v Speaker 1>and dad, Cindy and George Anthony. Cindy called the police

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 1>on July fifteen, two eight to report Kaylee had been

0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 1>missing for thirty one days. An hour before her missing

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 1>persons call, Cindy called nine one one, claimy she found

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 1>her daughter's car, her daughter's Casey Anthony, and it smelled

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 1>like there had been a dead body inside. Casey Anthony

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 1>said she hadn't seen her daughter in weeks and didn't

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 1>call because she had been looking for her and have

0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 1>gone through other resources to find her and was attempting

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.840
<v Speaker 1>to find her herself. Kaylee's skeletal remains were found with

0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:12.600
<v Speaker 1>a blanket inside a laundry bag on December near the

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Anthony's family home. Okay, we can go through more details

0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 1>of the case, but I think first let's get a

0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>little more information about you. Why did you become a

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:29.600
<v Speaker 1>crime scene investigator? What in your life brought you to

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:35.800
<v Speaker 1>this moment? And there's so much on the Capricorn, I

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 1>like on the beach and dead things with this tick

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 1>to all capricorns enjoy that? Or is that just a

0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 1>spinoff from there? There's gonna be some studies They're gonna

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 1>have to be done to confirm. But I can say

0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:52.320
<v Speaker 1>that it's true for me. I can do that on Google.

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Right now, Let's get up home. Yeah, So does c

0:29:55.320 --> 0:30:00.600
<v Speaker 1>S I stand for a Capricorn scene investigator? It does

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>in this case. Uh so, all right, a little bit

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:09.880
<v Speaker 1>about my background. So my father had trained law enforcement

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.840
<v Speaker 1>for that was his business. He's an industrial organizational psychologist

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:18.400
<v Speaker 1>and they deal with kind of how police choose the

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 1>best police to promote and get the right people for

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>the right job. And I took an interest in in

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>that job, and while I was in college, I went

0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.640
<v Speaker 1>to work for him and trying to help pick the

0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 1>best police and trying to help them like write their

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>resumes and prepare for promotional exams, and so part of

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 1>what I was doing is helping write these promotional exams.

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 1>So to write the tests, I had to take the

0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:47.680
<v Speaker 1>general orders and standard operating procedures, and I always gravitated

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:49.280
<v Speaker 1>towards the crime scene ones and I was like, I'm

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:51.120
<v Speaker 1>gonna write a lot of questions about these. So I

0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:53.520
<v Speaker 1>started studying them and I just went, this is what

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to do. And so I called the local

0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.680
<v Speaker 1>sheriff's office in where I was living, which happened to

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>be the Orange County Sheriff's Office, and I said, hey,

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:06.239
<v Speaker 1>what is it. What do you need to be a

0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 1>crime scene investigator? Because at that point in time, right

0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 1>c S, I like the shows and things were kind

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:14.560
<v Speaker 1>of starting to take off, but it was just a

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:17.920
<v Speaker 1>little bit, a little bit before that, and they said,

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:20.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, this is what you need. You need to

0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 1>have this background in science, you need to have all this.

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:24.480
<v Speaker 1>And at that point in time, I had a bachelor's

0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:28.480
<v Speaker 1>degree in communication, right, not kind of the ideal background

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 1>to be a crime scene investigator, but I'm really stubborn,

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 1>and so I said, all right, cool. So I went

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:37.040
<v Speaker 1>and I got a master's degree in criminal justice in

0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:41.440
<v Speaker 1>three semesters because they said that's what it's gonna take.

0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:45.040
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, all right, got it next, And I

0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>went and applied, and um, I got the job as

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:50.600
<v Speaker 1>a crime scene investigator. And I just knew that that

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 1>was my path, right. I don't do well with injustice, um,

0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:58.200
<v Speaker 1>and I always took it as a challenge. Every case

0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 1>that I worked was like, oh, you think you're going

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.040
<v Speaker 1>to do that to this person that I've never met.

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't matter, right, it does not matter to me. That

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't sit well with me. You know. I'd always read

0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 1>like the police reports and I'd be like, okay, a

0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 1>victim is there you Susan Jones? Oh not today. Not

0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 1>to this, Susan Jones. You're not right. And I thought,

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:25.120
<v Speaker 1>this is my job to find whatever the fingerprint the

0:32:25.240 --> 0:32:27.760
<v Speaker 1>d NA, Like I took it as a personal assault

0:32:27.800 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 1>that you think you're going to get away with this,

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:32.880
<v Speaker 1>And then I went no, because I'm going to be

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 1>the one that's gonna find this whatever you left behind.

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>You can't think you're smarter than me, Like, no, not today? Now?

0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Is there a is there an issue with that? Because

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:45.840
<v Speaker 1>I've like a lot of people say, you can't get

0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 1>emotionally invested in cases, right, Yeah? Do you find that

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 1>to be a problem or is that just something that

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 1>obviously it spurred you on and it made you better

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 1>at what you do. But is that a problem with

0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:57.360
<v Speaker 1>some that they get too invested in No, I don't

0:32:57.360 --> 0:32:59.640
<v Speaker 1>think so because to me, like I don't know that

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 1>person in I just use that as my motivation, you know,

0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 1>to to do better at my job. And you know,

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:10.600
<v Speaker 1>just in the like global sense of injustice, right, I

0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:13.080
<v Speaker 1>don't personally know the person or have any kind of

0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 1>motivation to help them in some way. Um. You know,

0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:20.880
<v Speaker 1>as as time goes on, it gets harder because you

0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>know children, right, crimes against people like children and the

0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:28.680
<v Speaker 1>elderly and these particularly vulnerable parts of the population, it

0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 1>makes it challenging. And there were many a time when

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I would drive to a crime scene, I would work

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.160
<v Speaker 1>my call, might work my case, and I would get

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:38.240
<v Speaker 1>in my van and I would cry the way back

0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 1>to the sheriff's office. Because we're human, right, There is

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>no switch that you turn on or off when you

0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 1>go and you do your job, and that humanity is

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 1>what also makes us good at our jobs. You know.

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't think anybody expects somebody to want to be

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>motivated to do this job for a very little sum

0:33:56.400 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 1>of money and not have some bigger purpose in life

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 1>that humanity is. What does that for us? Is there

0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:08.680
<v Speaker 1>a particular case that was the hardest for you that

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:15.879
<v Speaker 1>to separate between home life and yeah, Kaylee, right? And

0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:19.319
<v Speaker 1>the reason and it's so hard is you know, I

0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 1>worked hundreds of homicide cases, and I've worked all kinds

0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:27.240
<v Speaker 1>of death cases that are all challenging for different reasons,

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:30.440
<v Speaker 1>but this one was different because the whole world knew

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:34.080
<v Speaker 1>the victim. And you know, in these cases, you try

0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 1>to work and you try to separate, and you go

0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:37.480
<v Speaker 1>home and you live your life and you try to

0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 1>leave it and unpack it. But how do you leave

0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:42.719
<v Speaker 1>this case when the whole world is saying your victim's name,

0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 1>and the whole world is playing this video tape of

0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 1>this beautiful, little brown eyed girl singing to her grandmother

0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and playing and every time you go home and you

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:53.520
<v Speaker 1>turn on the news, it's there, and you go to

0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the store and it's on People magazine, and all of

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:59.560
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, there is no separation between your personal life

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:03.439
<v Speaker 1>and your life because the whole world knows and they're

0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 1>asking you about it everywhere you go, so that that

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:12.040
<v Speaker 1>line of separation becomes very blurry. And how many years

0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:15.360
<v Speaker 1>later and we're still talking about it? Right? Is there

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:19.960
<v Speaker 1>any chance, like in any world, that Casey did not

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:25.600
<v Speaker 1>do this? You know? I think it's the hard part

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.279
<v Speaker 1>for people is I don't think anybody doubts there's involvement. Right.

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.600
<v Speaker 1>As an investigator, we look at not only what we have,

0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 1>but what we do not have, right, so we have

0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:39.920
<v Speaker 1>to say scientifically, we have the crime scene being located

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:42.279
<v Speaker 1>very near to the house. We have the car that

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:45.920
<v Speaker 1>belongs to her that is involved. We have duct tape

0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:48.520
<v Speaker 1>similar brand, you know, our same brands found in the house.

0:35:48.600 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 1>We have the bag that she is in, a matching

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:53.840
<v Speaker 1>bag that's in the house. The clothing that she is in,

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 1>we have pictures of her wearing that. We also have

0:35:56.640 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>pictures and family albums, so this is not clothing that

0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.600
<v Speaker 1>she's been dressed by a stranger. The diapers that she's

0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.040
<v Speaker 1>in are the same brand that has been purchased by

0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:09.000
<v Speaker 1>the house. All of these things indicate. The blanket is

0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Winnie the Pooh, it's the same, you know. The way

0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:15.400
<v Speaker 1>that her crib has been decorated in the house. The

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:18.359
<v Speaker 1>totality of the evidence that we look at. These are

0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:21.480
<v Speaker 1>all things that bring us back towards the Anthony residence

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.799
<v Speaker 1>when we look at what we don't have, because that

0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 1>is just as important as what we do have. What

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 1>we don't have is evidence of third party involvement in

0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:36.560
<v Speaker 1>that entirety of what I listed. Do we have a

0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:40.319
<v Speaker 1>car that belongs to a stranger. Do we have fingerprints

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:42.359
<v Speaker 1>or DNA that give us an idea that the child

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 1>has been kidnapped or been in the care of somebody else.

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:49.279
<v Speaker 1>If a child is kidnapped and under the care in

0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 1>the care of somebody for thirty days missing, we would

0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 1>expect to see clothing that they had to purchase at

0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.560
<v Speaker 1>a target, at a Walmart somewhere on the road on

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 1>the one that does not match. But she's in clothing

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.359
<v Speaker 1>that has been worn by the family, been bought by

0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:09.440
<v Speaker 1>the family. If she's in the care of a stranger

0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.719
<v Speaker 1>for thirty days, you have to buy diapers. You have

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:14.399
<v Speaker 1>to buy something when you're on the run on the road.

0:37:14.520 --> 0:37:16.920
<v Speaker 1>But she's in diapers that are the same brand that

0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:19.160
<v Speaker 1>is purchased by the family. So we need to look

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 1>at what we have and what we don't have. What

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:25.120
<v Speaker 1>we don't have is evidence of third party involvement. And

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:29.440
<v Speaker 1>sorry to monopolize this guy. I have another question because

0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:34.000
<v Speaker 1>what I have never understood about this case is when

0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Casey leaves her home for those thirty one days and

0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Kaylee has meant missing. If we're supposed to believe that

0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:50.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, Kayley did go missing, where is the boyfriend

0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:52.799
<v Speaker 1>thinking that Kayley is for thirty one days that she's

0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 1>staying at and where do her parents? I think that

0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Casey is that's when you have to look at a

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.160
<v Speaker 1>pattern of behavior, and there's a pattern of behavior that

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.160
<v Speaker 1>she tells a lot of stories to a lot of people,

0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:08.319
<v Speaker 1>and that this is not a typical behavior for her

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to tell, you know, group A that I'm with B

0:38:11.200 --> 0:38:13.279
<v Speaker 1>and tell group B that I'm with group A. So

0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:15.520
<v Speaker 1>people don't ask a lot of questions, and it's just

0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:18.040
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem to be a typical behavior for her to

0:38:18.080 --> 0:38:22.319
<v Speaker 1>tell stories to people, and they don't seem to question this. Well,

0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:25.600
<v Speaker 1>she's such a pathological lie. She lies about everything. She

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.880
<v Speaker 1>lies about still having a job working at Universal, she

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 1>lies about her boyfriend's mom having cancer, like all these

0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>weird little details and then they never meet the families

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.280
<v Speaker 1>and then saying that she dropped Kayleie off with Zanny

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:42.360
<v Speaker 1>the nanny who and this is a real person who

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't even know the family and it had nothing to

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 1>do with this. You know. Somebody even said that they

0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:52.239
<v Speaker 1>thought Zanni meant zan X, right. It was a it

0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.400
<v Speaker 1>was a theory that was was tossed around. Did she

0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:56.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, was there evidence that she drugged the child?

0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:59.160
<v Speaker 1>And then dropping her off with Zanny was you know,

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.560
<v Speaker 1>a key phrase for giving her a xan X and

0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:06.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of letting her sleep it off or something. And

0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:07.920
<v Speaker 1>then you have to look at her behavior. And I

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 1>saw um when you were talking when somebody when Leah

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 1>was reading doing the intro and she said she was

0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:15.520
<v Speaker 1>she says she was looking for her, and you did

0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:18.319
<v Speaker 1>your air quotes with your fingers. So it's it's like,

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 1>for that amount of time, you didn't contact anybody, so

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 1>I was looking for on my own. But then she

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 1>also went out and that was partying in this and

0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:28.319
<v Speaker 1>at a time it's it's kind of I mean, I

0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:30.400
<v Speaker 1>think that falls into that category of what you have

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and what you don't have, and when you watch someone's behavior,

0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:36.120
<v Speaker 1>like if if anyone thought anyone's sane or anyone that

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:38.279
<v Speaker 1>I know thought that their kid was missing. That's not

0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:40.680
<v Speaker 1>the behavior that says, hey, I have nothing to do

0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:43.920
<v Speaker 1>with this, help me out. So what you're going to

0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:46.960
<v Speaker 1>be very interested to see in the first episode of

0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Crime Seemed Confidential that we have not seen before is

0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 1>that I'm going to sit down and speak with not

0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:55.279
<v Speaker 1>only Cindy, but we're we're gonna see that I sit

0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:58.680
<v Speaker 1>down and speak with Dorothy Clay Sims, which is her

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:02.439
<v Speaker 1>defense attorney, which we have never spoken too before, and

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Dorothy is going to offer up some explanations for Casey's

0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.280
<v Speaker 1>behavior that maybe people haven't given much thought to. HM.

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.840
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting. I'll just if someone is a pathological liar.

0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I know lie detector tests aren't necessarily accurate, but can

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 1>they pass Lie detector tests if they are pathological? The

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 1>thing about lie detector tests is that they're they're not

0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:30.280
<v Speaker 1>to begin with and uh and even lie detector tests,

0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:32.759
<v Speaker 1>it depends. The modern day lie detector tests is called

0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a voice stress analysis, So they now look at the

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:38.440
<v Speaker 1>pattern and the changes in your voice and the stress

0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:40.719
<v Speaker 1>that that enables. So we don't even do the old

0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:42.720
<v Speaker 1>school where they kind of hook up the wires around

0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 1>your chest that you've seen kind of in old school

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:50.319
<v Speaker 1>police movies. Now they do voice stress analysis, but they

0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of some of the things that I looked up,

0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:57.240
<v Speaker 1>and not that this really means anything. I have said

0:40:57.280 --> 0:41:00.239
<v Speaker 1>that there was something that happened inside of the house,

0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:03.479
<v Speaker 1>inside of that family house, that all that her dad

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 1>knows about, that her mom knows about. Do you think

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:11.000
<v Speaker 1>there's any truth to that. I don't have any scientific

0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:13.959
<v Speaker 1>evidence of anything of that nature. Right, There's not gonna

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 1>be a lot of theories that get thrown about, but

0:41:16.320 --> 0:41:18.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't have any scientific evidence that would support that.

0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 1>And I think that is the theme of this show,

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 1>and that's what I encourage people to focus on, because,

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:30.320
<v Speaker 1>especially with this case, there's so much emotional involvement in attachment,

0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:33.960
<v Speaker 1>especially when we see a child involved. Everybody gets so

0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:38.840
<v Speaker 1>emotionally invested in this, and the tendency is to want

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 1>to follow a narrative, and no matter what we talk about,

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.440
<v Speaker 1>there are narratives in this case, and there's narratives that

0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:46.560
<v Speaker 1>are that are portrayed by the defense, and there are

0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:49.320
<v Speaker 1>narratives that are portrayed by the prosecution. There are narratives

0:41:49.320 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 1>that are portrayed by the media, and we immediately, because

0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:55.360
<v Speaker 1>we're humans, we jump up and we want to follow

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:58.120
<v Speaker 1>a narrative and we go, yes that and we we

0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.920
<v Speaker 1>follow that path. What physic iCal evidence does is it

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 1>doesn't follow a narrative. It simply is. And what I

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>encourage people to do that and that's the beauty of

0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:10.640
<v Speaker 1>forensic science, and that's the beauty of crime scene confidential

0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:13.520
<v Speaker 1>is we are going to follow the evidence and the

0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:16.399
<v Speaker 1>forensic science behind it, and we're gonna say, okay, uh,

0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 1>we're not. We're not gonna fall prey to following a narrative.

0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:23.160
<v Speaker 1>We're going to look at the evidence and you're gonna

0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:27.000
<v Speaker 1>follow it from my perspective from a crime scene perspective, which,

0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:31.359
<v Speaker 1>by the way, is new. We have never ever had

0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 1>a crime show before that has looked at from a

0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 1>crime scene investigator's perspective. We've seen dramatization of crime scene before,

0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:42.880
<v Speaker 1>but we've never seen real deal from the evidence perspective,

0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:45.000
<v Speaker 1>from a crime scene point of view. We're gonna follow

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:47.160
<v Speaker 1>this and we're not we're la la la la, Not

0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I not following the narrative. We're following crime scene facts

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>and then allow people to look at the totality of evidence,

0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 1>not what I call cafeteria style. We don't take our

0:42:57.680 --> 0:42:59.400
<v Speaker 1>trade down and go oh yeah, I'll take that, and

0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 1>I'll take is, and I'll build a narrative built upon

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 1>the things that support my belief. No. No, we're gonna

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:08.600
<v Speaker 1>look at the evidence and the totality of the evidence

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:13.000
<v Speaker 1>and what does that support, not a narrative. This feels

0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:16.640
<v Speaker 1>very reminiscent of the John ben Ay Ramsey case in

0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that the public wanted to form a narrative. And well,

0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:23.759
<v Speaker 1>I guess my other question. I mean, I have so

0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>many questions for you, But I was actually talking about

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the narrative that they've been saying that she potentially drowned

0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.320
<v Speaker 1>in the pool. No way to prove or disprove that theory.

0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:36.880
<v Speaker 1>And he also knows that the case being in Florida,

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:40.480
<v Speaker 1>everybody in Florida is used to hearing on the news

0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:42.840
<v Speaker 1>very tragically. But because we have so many bodies of

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:45.759
<v Speaker 1>water and so many people in Florida have pools, it

0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:48.360
<v Speaker 1>is not uncommon to hear on the news that we

0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:52.440
<v Speaker 1>have drownings very frequently in Florida. Because Toddler's come, you know,

0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 1>come out and drown in pools. The main difference that

0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.840
<v Speaker 1>we have is I have worked very many drownings of toddler's.

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:02.160
<v Speaker 1>What I assure you does not happen is that when

0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 1>you discover a drowned child in a pool, what a

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:09.800
<v Speaker 1>parent does. No matter in what state you find your child,

0:44:10.000 --> 0:44:14.240
<v Speaker 1>you always have hope something you can save my child.

0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:16.280
<v Speaker 1>If the child is at the bottom of the pool

0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:19.399
<v Speaker 1>and is blue, you jump in, you pull the child out,

0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:22.280
<v Speaker 1>You call nine one one, and you think a medical

0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.440
<v Speaker 1>miracle will save my child. The paramedics will come, they

0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:27.480
<v Speaker 1>will bring them back, they'll take them to the hospital,

0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:29.799
<v Speaker 1>they will save them, they will do something. In one

0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:34.040
<v Speaker 1>of the child drownings that I have worked was called

0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:38.320
<v Speaker 1>what you do not do is go, oh, well, guess

0:44:38.320 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I'll bagger upright well, And that's the disconnect. That's the

0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:45.600
<v Speaker 1>disconnect because at what point do you think, and it

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:47.520
<v Speaker 1>goes to onto the Scott Peterson's of the world and

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:49.480
<v Speaker 1>all these people, at what point do you think what

0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:54.760
<v Speaker 1>you're doing is better than than the really the easiest route.

0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:56.719
<v Speaker 1>If if that was the case, you call and you

0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:59.399
<v Speaker 1>say there was an accident, and then you go from there.

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:02.400
<v Speaker 1>If got Peterson wants to get a divorceing. Excuse my,

0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 1>but get a divorce right, So we don't We can't

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 1>explain the mental thought process here if it were an accident,

0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 1>why the first thought was cover up the behavior rather

0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:17.640
<v Speaker 1>than call and report it if it were a drowning.

0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Because scientifically we can say what happened. We can talk

0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:24.319
<v Speaker 1>about postmortem root banding and having a deceased body that

0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:28.040
<v Speaker 1>is mitochondreally linked to Casey in the car. But what

0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:32.440
<v Speaker 1>scientifically I cannot explain is intent. What about did you?

0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Was there ever any information on who Kyley's actual father is?

0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Because I saw something that said two of the guys

0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:44.399
<v Speaker 1>that they assumed could potentially be her father both died

0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:48.320
<v Speaker 1>in a car crash. But is that the same car crash?

0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:51.479
<v Speaker 1>What are the chances that two people, well it wasn't

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 1>father also in a car crash and that's when they

0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:59.719
<v Speaker 1>reconnected George was involved in a car crash. You're no,

0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:03.080
<v Speaker 1>but this Two of the guys that they said the

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 1>potential father's potential fathers both died in the car crash.

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Sorry I didn't say that probably died. Okay, So they

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 1>still don't know who her dad is. I don't know

0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:16.239
<v Speaker 1>who knows who the father is I don't personally know

0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:20.800
<v Speaker 1>who it was. Well, so, what are your thoughts in

0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:25.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact of the googling of chloroform and then the

0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:29.839
<v Speaker 1>theory that she possibly over chloroformed her daughter. You know,

0:46:30.040 --> 0:46:36.160
<v Speaker 1>it's a it's another theory. Uh, I can't you know,

0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:39.040
<v Speaker 1>I know that I can't remember if we address that

0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:46.200
<v Speaker 1>on the on an episode one or not. But it's

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 1>it's um so hard to say. There's there's so many

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:53.080
<v Speaker 1>pieces of evidence out there that again, you know, science

0:46:53.160 --> 0:47:00.800
<v Speaker 1>can lead people to make a logical conclusion. We can

0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:04.640
<v Speaker 1>provide all of the evidence in the world scientifically speaking,

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:11.080
<v Speaker 1>but ultimately, in our justice system, jurors will still be

0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:16.000
<v Speaker 1>charged with making a conclusion upon that evidence. You know,

0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:19.640
<v Speaker 1>we're not always and very rarely going to have confessions

0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 1>and video tapes of crimes, or we wouldn't need a

0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.359
<v Speaker 1>jury to make a decision. So all we can do

0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 1>as investigators is have evidence, provide that evidence, and trust

0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:33.759
<v Speaker 1>people to make a decision. And And what are your

0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:38.160
<v Speaker 1>thoughts on Casey potentially writing a book that's the rumor

0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:43.120
<v Speaker 1>now that she is. I have learned over my years

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:47.760
<v Speaker 1>of investigation and being a human that I am only

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:51.680
<v Speaker 1>responsible for what I do, and I sleep very well

0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:55.759
<v Speaker 1>at night, and I can't be responsible for what other

0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:59.200
<v Speaker 1>people do and how they sleep at night. I will

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:02.719
<v Speaker 1>say this, I try very hard to refer to this

0:48:02.800 --> 0:48:06.680
<v Speaker 1>case as the Kaylee Anthony case because we need to

0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:10.080
<v Speaker 1>be very victim centric and ensure that we keep the

0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:14.880
<v Speaker 1>memory of our victims alive and not give attention two

0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.920
<v Speaker 1>suspects and then and give more attention to our victims.

0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:22.760
<v Speaker 1>It makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I'm sorry,

0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I just have one more question because it has been

0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:29.719
<v Speaker 1>weighing on me. It's very confusing. So Ray Kronk suggested

0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:35.880
<v Speaker 1>that they the police searched the area, the wooded area

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:40.719
<v Speaker 1>less than half a mile from the Anthony's home, and

0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:45.520
<v Speaker 1>then the bones are found. Right, does this at all

0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 1>seems suspicious? No, that if you know Florida and if

0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:53.200
<v Speaker 1>you know that area, that area is kind of a

0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.960
<v Speaker 1>slope off of the road. It's very heavily tread, heavily vined.

0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:01.280
<v Speaker 1>There was poison ivy, it floods. We had hurricane season,

0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:05.839
<v Speaker 1>so it would flood and recede. It wasn't always easily accessible.

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 1>So to me that you know, it's almost one of

0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:11.000
<v Speaker 1>those areas that you can tell somebody to search three

0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:13.920
<v Speaker 1>times and they probably wouldn't find the same thing, you know,

0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:18.759
<v Speaker 1>three times in a row. So it's not necessarily suspicious

0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to me. It just depends on the observational skills of

0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:26.759
<v Speaker 1>the individual that's sent out there to search. Okay, And

0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.640
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately we do have to wrap for today, But do

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:32.480
<v Speaker 1>you have any final thoughts that you wanted to share

0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:36.640
<v Speaker 1>with us well the show or yeah, anything. Yeah, what

0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:39.080
<v Speaker 1>I will say is, you know, while the first episode

0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:42.000
<v Speaker 1>focuses on this case, which everybody obviously is you know,

0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:45.400
<v Speaker 1>probably more familiar with, the rest of the series goes

0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.600
<v Speaker 1>around the United States and we look at some other

0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:53.560
<v Speaker 1>really controversial cases that deal with you know, shocking cases,

0:49:54.080 --> 0:50:00.400
<v Speaker 1>shocking deaths, shocking injustices, some shocking betrayals. And I think

0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:04.560
<v Speaker 1>that I mean, as a veteran c S I when

0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.799
<v Speaker 1>I reviewed all of these cases, I am just absolutely

0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:10.839
<v Speaker 1>blown away. And I know that our viewers are just

0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:14.960
<v Speaker 1>going to be so excited about this, about this show.

0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 1>It's totally new. I can't wait. I know you're gonna

0:50:18.560 --> 0:50:23.280
<v Speaker 1>love episode one, but they honestly get so good throughout

0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:26.520
<v Speaker 1>the entire series. Well, you've got me hooked already. I

0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:30.400
<v Speaker 1>mean everything you said. Wait, I was like this the

0:50:30.400 --> 0:50:32.920
<v Speaker 1>whole time you were talking, like I honestly forgot her.

0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:38.880
<v Speaker 1>We love your hair. Thank you so much for joining

0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:44.200
<v Speaker 1>us today. Thank you for having me. We'll see March Finalina,

0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:47.759
<v Speaker 1>thank you all right, thank you so much. That was

0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.640
<v Speaker 1>so smart how she said about calling it the case

0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:55.239
<v Speaker 1>about the victims. I don't know why that never processed

0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:57.759
<v Speaker 1>for me. I mean I was probably still called the

0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Casey Anthony case because I'm an idiot. But but it's

0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:05.719
<v Speaker 1>interesting because that's so true. Um, you know, like we

0:51:05.800 --> 0:51:11.400
<v Speaker 1>call it the John benn A Ramsey case. We don't. Yeah,

0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:14.560
<v Speaker 1>either way. I loved her. I loved how matters of

0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:17.239
<v Speaker 1>fact she was. I loved how she didn't waiver when

0:51:17.239 --> 0:51:19.080
<v Speaker 1>we would try to act. We would come up with

0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:21.799
<v Speaker 1>our theories like she's like no, she's like she's like,

0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm following the science pitches and were like, could easily

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:28.640
<v Speaker 1>be a prosecutor as well. She's so smart and so cool.

0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to watch the show me either. I

0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:36.400
<v Speaker 1>know we have a lot going on with you, you know,

0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:40.680
<v Speaker 1>auditioning for the news and dming with Chris Womo allegedly,

0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:43.160
<v Speaker 1>but um, do you want to close this out and

0:51:43.200 --> 0:51:45.640
<v Speaker 1>sing the song one final time. Oh thank god I

0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:49.279
<v Speaker 1>get to sing it. Okay, guys, if you want to

0:51:49.320 --> 0:51:53.719
<v Speaker 1>call in and leave us a voicemail, whether you're professing

0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:55.680
<v Speaker 1>your love for us or sharing a crime you think

0:51:55.680 --> 0:52:00.879
<v Speaker 1>we should look into. You know the number time that's

0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:04.800
<v Speaker 1>eight six six twenty one crime eight six six twenty

0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:07.640
<v Speaker 1>one time that's eight six six two on two seven

0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 1>four six three. And make sure to find us on

0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:13.120
<v Speaker 1>the internet. Our Instagram is at Real Time Crime Pod.

0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:15.440
<v Speaker 1>You can find me at Lea Lamar that's with two

0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:18.839
<v Speaker 1>rs at Teddy Mellencamp and my TikTok is Lea Lamar

0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:23.280
<v Speaker 1>with five rs because Leo Lamar was taken. And then also,

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Dmitri's handle is not sometimes Dmitri, which is very confusing.

0:52:27.120 --> 0:52:32.719
<v Speaker 1>It's just his name, Dmitri. Papas papasa, papas Glad we're

0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:35.759
<v Speaker 1>learning this. We all know each other very well and

0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:39.160
<v Speaker 1>we're all best friends. The reason sometimes Matris because I

0:52:39.200 --> 0:52:41.520
<v Speaker 1>was never called that until now, so I didn't you know,

0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:44.040
<v Speaker 1>there's still time to change. I wonder if it's taken.

0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:45.799
<v Speaker 1>Are you trying to say that there was a life

0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:49.399
<v Speaker 1>before this podcast? Thank you? But if you get something

0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:55.800
<v Speaker 1>from sometimes to Matri. That is a hack. I'm about

0:52:55.800 --> 0:52:59.080
<v Speaker 1>to go get that Instagram handle right now. Okay, guys,

0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:07.319
<v Speaker 1>everyone a safe, stay healthy. I'm broken. Is happening well, y'all?

0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Will the real Chris Cuomo please DM me? Maybe bye

0:53:14.040 --> 0:53:22.279
<v Speaker 1>bye by? It's real time grad real time gro I mean,

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:24.960
<v Speaker 1>is it actually real time crime? I'm solving anything or

0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:26.440
<v Speaker 1>is that just the thing we say, it's a thing

0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:29.120
<v Speaker 1>we say, got it? Okay, see you next week for

0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:32.000
<v Speaker 1>more real time crime, only on I Heart Radio.