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Speaker 1: Coolso media, Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode. So

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Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here

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Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for

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Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.

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Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, my name is Dan al Kurd and this is

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Speaker 3: it could happen here. I'm an associate professor of political

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Speaker 3: science and a researcher.

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Speaker 4: Of Arab and Palestinian politics.

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Speaker 3: Today on the podcast we have Danielle Kanter and she'll

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Speaker 3: be talking to us about mutual aid work in Israel,

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Speaker 3: leftist politics at Israel, and her personal journey.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for being on the show. Hi.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, if you'd like to introduce us to yourself

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Speaker 3: and your organization, Culture of Solidarity, that would be fantastic.

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Speaker 4: Sure. Yeah, Hi, I'm Danielle.

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Speaker 5: I run with a beautiful community, a mutual aid called

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Speaker 5: Culture of Solidarity. I don't know if people here are

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Speaker 5: familiar with mutual aid work or if I should give

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Speaker 5: a little explanation about that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you can give a shpiel, yeah, spiel.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just basically kind of caring for your community through

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Speaker 5: different like aid programs while resisting the systems that kind

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Speaker 5: of preserve their poverty and their oppression. That's how I

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Speaker 5: view what mutual aid work is. And yeah, so we

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Speaker 5: run a mutual aid. It runs in many forms, but

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Speaker 5: mostly it's we have a food security program that supports

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Speaker 5: kind of the people that fall in between the cracks

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Speaker 5: of the systems within Israeli and Palestine. Well obviously the

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Speaker 5: systems within Israel and in Palestine. We work mainly in

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Speaker 5: Area C in the West Bank, in Mesaphiliata. Yeah, so

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Speaker 5: we do food security, like food packs that are truly

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Speaker 5: appropriate for each community receiving them based off of what

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Speaker 5: they are asking, whether it's diapers, baby formula.

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Speaker 4: You know, fit to each holiday.

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Speaker 5: Now we just finished or we're still in the midst

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Speaker 5: of a Romandan annual campaign where they're all going to

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Speaker 5: be boxes fit for the holiday and we host well,

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Speaker 5: we had.

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Speaker 4: A community center for the past five years.

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Speaker 5: We've been a collective, I guess since March twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: when COVID hit so Basically when that started, it was

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Speaker 5: kind of like we saw that there was going to

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Speaker 5: be a lot of food waste, like an obscene amount

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Speaker 5: of food waste because all the restaurants, offices, hotels, la

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Speaker 5: la la who would be closing, And we thought we'd

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Speaker 5: kind of rescue that food and redistribute it to communities

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Speaker 5: that were in need until the government kind of got

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Speaker 5: on their feet and understood what their virus was. That

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Speaker 5: was kind of the beginning of our deep, deep political

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Speaker 5: awakening of this place, thinking that there would be a

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Speaker 5: system that would come and serve the vulnerable communities around us.

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Speaker 4: So that's when it started.

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Speaker 5: And I think only like a few months into that

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Speaker 5: when we thought we were kind of just like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: good citizens doing the work and not understanding how politically

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Speaker 5: charged it is to serve your community when they're actively

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Speaker 5: being oppressed by the systems that are supposed to care

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Speaker 5: for them. And I think in that moment we understood

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Speaker 5: that we want to not only serve our neighbors or community,

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Speaker 5: we also need to learn about these root causes of

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Speaker 5: oppression and what brought them to this position in the

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Speaker 5: first place. You know, people often say like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 5: someone's poor they don't have food in their fridge like

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Speaker 5: in their ways of trying to raise funds or whatever.

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Speaker 5: And it's an atrocity almost to kind of depict it

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Speaker 5: that way, because all of these communities are actively.

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Speaker 4: Being abandoned, Yeah, being abandoned in a nice way.

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Speaker 5: You know, they didn't wake up one morning and didn't

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Speaker 5: have food in their fridge, right, they don't have food

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Speaker 5: in their fridge because of a policy that preserves that status.

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Speaker 4: And so that is the mutual aid that we run.

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Speaker 5: We had a community center for five years where we

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Speaker 5: hosted weekly events or daily events every evening. All the

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Speaker 5: events would be under that umbrella of learning as a

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Speaker 5: community about these injustices, and they could also be you know, shows,

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Speaker 5: and they could be debates, and they could be lecturers

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Speaker 5: or workshops, and all of the proceeds would go to

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Speaker 5: our food security program. And in that way, we are

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent community funded.

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Speaker 4: No one has salaries.

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Speaker 5: We made a conscious decision back in the beginning when

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Speaker 5: we realized all the injustices around us, that we didn't

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Speaker 5: want to institutionalize and become part of a system that

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Speaker 5: is responsible for that. And that is not to say

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Speaker 5: that NGOs aren't amazing. That is not to say that

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Speaker 5: you know, there aren't angios doing God's work here.

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Speaker 4: But they're constrained. Yeah, there's there's different constraints.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and this is our personal decision to act as

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Speaker 5: a community. There's another reason we didn't want to institutionalize

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Speaker 5: in this because we didn't want to make a business

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Speaker 5: out of something that shouldn't be needed, you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean when you get salaries and tacticy, like.

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Speaker 4: It perpetuates the need to continue in.

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Speaker 5: A way, and like there's all going to be needed, right,

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Speaker 5: Like it's not We're gonna you know, oh and then

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Speaker 5: they're not going to need anymore. But you know, I

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Speaker 5: saw unhinge like a dating app. Yeah yeah, it said

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Speaker 5: an app meant to be deleted, And I just thought

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Speaker 5: about that, like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: That is the essence of it all.

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Speaker 5: Like we're not supposed to be doing this, isn't Like

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Speaker 5: I mean, we should be caring for our community and

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Speaker 5: our neighbors.

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Speaker 4: That should go without saying.

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Speaker 5: But also our taxes should be directed to serving our

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Speaker 5: name or that are in vulnerable states.

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Speaker 3: So I will definitely link in the show notes to

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Speaker 3: like the Instagram and things like that, and for people

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Speaker 3: who are I mean, I'm sure for some people who

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Speaker 3: have seen the documentary no Other Land, this is the

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Speaker 3: same community that you all work with in Masafaietta. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I'm interested in a couple of different kind of directions.

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Speaker 3: But would you say that a lot of the people

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Speaker 3: who come to Culture of Solidarity and like volunteer and

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Speaker 3: start to participate in your activities.

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Speaker 4: Do you think.

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Speaker 3: That that opens up the space to not only question

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Speaker 3: injustices within the Israeli system, but how that's tied up

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Speaker 3: with the occupation, Like is that kind of the path

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Speaker 3: forward for people?

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Speaker 5: I think that is the path or that we want

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Speaker 5: from people. I think we are very forgiving in a

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Speaker 5: sense in the way that like not forgiving, but just understanding,

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Speaker 5: you know, the journey that it took us to unlearn

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Speaker 5: what we know.

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Speaker 4: Like that's a hard one and I'm going.

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Speaker 5: To go pre October seventh, you know you're doing work

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Speaker 5: to unlearn what you've been taught.

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Speaker 4: Isn't your entire identity?

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Speaker 5: And you know, post October seventh, you just see everything,

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Speaker 5: like everything has become so much more pornographic, Like you know,

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Speaker 5: it's the amount of death, murder, the genocide, the ethnic

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Speaker 5: cleansing in the West Bank. You know, just this week

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Speaker 5: six communities have been pushed out of their homes by

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Speaker 5: the army, by settlers Paris, and it's become much more immediate.

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Speaker 5: Whereas I think before October seventh, I mean, there didn't

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Speaker 5: go a week in which we didn't have an.

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Speaker 4: Event talking about the occupation and learning.

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Speaker 5: But I think after October seventh, it became this like

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Speaker 5: huge divide of like this kind of like protection.

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Speaker 4: Over one's identity.

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Speaker 5: So we did a lot of work to kind of

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Speaker 5: mantle that notion that to empathize with another people comes

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Speaker 5: on the expense of your own pain and trying to

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Speaker 5: you know, mirror the power dynamic to people like yes,

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Speaker 5: we all had family and friends and people that we

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Speaker 5: knew that were murdered, that were taken, that were like abducted.

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Speaker 5: And with that being said, Israel has been committing a

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Speaker 5: genocide in Gaza for the past still it's ongoing two

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Speaker 5: in something years.

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Speaker 2: The other day I.

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Speaker 5: Got a message on our Instagram basically being like I

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Speaker 5: love the work you do. You do really important things,

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Speaker 5: and you know there is racism and there is poverty,

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Speaker 5: but from there to say that there's ethnic cleansing. Come on, like,

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Speaker 5: I don't know if I can support your work anymore,

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Speaker 5: and basically also meet that with love as well to

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Speaker 5: be like I hear you. This is the policies that

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Speaker 5: people in our government, our advanced sing this is who

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Speaker 5: our army is protecting. This is what ethnic cleansing means.

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Speaker 5: And in that situation, I can also turn to my

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Speaker 5: community and my friends, Like I have a friend that

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Speaker 5: what he does for work is kind of gathering all

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Speaker 5: this information of articles and everything that's coming out to educate.

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Speaker 5: So all right, cool, I can use those articles to

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Speaker 5: help teach this person that yes, there is in fact

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Speaker 5: ethnic cleansing happening in the West Bank, like.

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Speaker 4: And you know it's not even like this like oh,

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Speaker 4: how do I say?

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Speaker 5: It's like no, actually, our like our government officials are

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Speaker 5: saying this like smutly said it the other day, right,

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Speaker 5: So yeah, but yeah, it is this.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like open door. Yeah for Israeli is that

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Speaker 3: maybe not? They're not there yet.

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Speaker 5: Also, yeah, I think that it's like it's it's hard,

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Speaker 5: it's like really hard because you're at this point where

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Speaker 5: it's like very far from where those people are that

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Speaker 5: are like beginning. And also you have sometimes resentment towards

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Speaker 5: your society, and most of sometimes a lot of the

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Speaker 5: time you have resented. I'm always as nothing with like

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Speaker 5: in general, when someone wants to is asking a question,

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Speaker 5: I think that is just like amazing and important and cool.

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Speaker 5: Let's have a conversation about this. At least they're asking, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and they're wanting to learn, they're questioning something. That's that's

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Speaker 5: the way forward. And with that being said, you know,

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Speaker 5: the past two enough years have also been excruciating living

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Speaker 5: in this society, like you're living in a genocidal society

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Speaker 5: and you're around people that could justify certain, you know, acts,

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Speaker 5: certain war crimes. Yeah, you kind of find yourself not

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Speaker 5: wanting to engage, not wanting to love, not wanting to teach,

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Speaker 5: not wanting not that I'm the one teaching, like we're

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Speaker 5: all learning together about this and hosting, but obviously not

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Speaker 5: wanting to have conversations sometimes because you're just like, well,

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Speaker 5: you see what's been happening online over the past two years,

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Speaker 5: and you still can't comprehend what is going on. Then go,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what I can do to help that.

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Speaker 5: But then I have to remind myself that if I

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Speaker 5: am here. If I'm living here, I have a responsibility

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Speaker 5: and that is to, yeah, facilitate more meetings conversations in

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Speaker 5: which people will be exposed to the injustice is being

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Speaker 5: committed in our name. And that's a problem with liberal

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Speaker 5: Zionism as well, because liberal Zionists will be like, oh

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Speaker 5: my god, yeah, it's terrible what's happening in the West

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Speaker 5: Bank settlers blah blah blah. But like those still send

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Speaker 5: their you know, their boys to go be pilots in

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Speaker 5: the army and you know, bomb children. And it's kind

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Speaker 5: of like finding the way to kind of be like, no, no,

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Speaker 5: you can't, like you can't be against that, and then

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Speaker 5: before that.

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Speaker 3: Right kind of demonstrate the cognitive dissonance to them. There's

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Speaker 3: kind of a contradiction here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I think you've just a little no, no, not

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Speaker 3: at all. This is extremely rich in thought provoking content.

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Speaker 3: I want to ask what kind of organizations does Culture

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Speaker 3: of Solidarity engage with, whether in Israel and in Palestine,

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Speaker 3: and kind of related to that, what role do you

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Speaker 3: see an organization such as this a mutual aid organization?

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Speaker 3: What role do you envision for yourselves in Palestinian liberation,

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Speaker 3: Like what role are you intending to pay? You kind

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Speaker 3: of touched on it already in terms of like teaching

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Speaker 3: and learning within your own society.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we work with a lot of different organizations because

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Speaker 5: it is very important for us to you know, not

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Speaker 5: reinvent the wheel and kind of learn with our other organizations,

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Speaker 5: whether it's Gisha who talk about the actual words of

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Speaker 5: Gisha's access and they talk about access in Gaza, the

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Speaker 5: access to water, to electricity, the infrastructure and Gaza, and

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Speaker 5: then we could host tours every.

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Speaker 4: Time it's a different organization. This guy Money in our group.

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Speaker 5: He runs these tours and he will do with Breaking

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Speaker 5: the Silence and Masafetta, he'll do one with the Zoho,

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Speaker 5: which I'm sure, Yeah, you can probably link all of

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Speaker 5: these in.

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Speaker 4: The definitely will. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It was Machia, which is the Charles Klora Muncia, which

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Speaker 5: is literally down the street from where I'm at right now,

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Speaker 5: and it's the beach of Yaffa and the village that

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Speaker 5: once existed there, or even with a woman named Hilaharel

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Speaker 5: to go through a tour within the half abandoned Israeli

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Speaker 5: new bus station and they're all tied to injustices. They're

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Speaker 5: all tied to something that was or was there and

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Speaker 5: isn't anymore, or atrocities currently happening.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, also when the in the negative, to.

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Speaker 5: Learn about the different Vedouin communities and the injustices that

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Speaker 5: they're experiencing. And then so that's yeah, it's called touring

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Speaker 5: and solidarity. And then we'll have I mean, honestly, probably

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Speaker 5: any left, radical left or organization that you could probably

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Speaker 5: think of, we collaborate with them in some way or another.

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Speaker 5: It's a pretty tight knit community and this has been

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Speaker 5: a beautiful thing of like trying to you know, always

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Speaker 5: there's always a knits and grits of blah blah blah,

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Speaker 5: but I mean, uplifting each other and collaborating with each

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Speaker 5: other is so important to not feel alone as Israelis

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Speaker 5: against the occupation, Yeah, and for an actual true democracy

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Speaker 5: in the land or liberation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Do you work with Palestinian groups within Israel and in

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Speaker 3: the occupied territories?

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Speaker 4: Yes, we do.

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Speaker 5: We worked with in organization in Gaza called Dignity for

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Speaker 5: Palestine and we did a bit big flower fundraiser last year.

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Speaker 5: And we've worked with organizations that are like you know,

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Speaker 5: physicians for human rights that are both you know, Israeli

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Speaker 5: and Palestinian lad and then we have our annual Ramandan

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Speaker 5: campaign that I was telling you about now, and that's

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Speaker 5: what rabbis for human rights who are not Palestinian, but

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Speaker 5: we do work with different groups within Palestine. One of

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Speaker 5: the people that was, you know, the main receiver and

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Speaker 5: distributor of these boxes was Adadarin, who was murdered in

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Speaker 5: July by settler you know, on Levy.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's working directly with communities.

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Speaker 5: Second question was what role do you left this Israelis

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Speaker 5: have right now?

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Speaker 4: Is that the question?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, what role do you envision either for yourself

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Speaker 3: as you you personally or for Israeli left in Palestinian liberation?

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Speaker 4: I know it's a big question.

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Speaker 5: That is a big question, and it's an important question,

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Speaker 5: and I think as long as we are living on

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Speaker 5: this land, it's our response. It's I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 5: I think it's everyone's responsibility to free Palestine and for

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Speaker 5: the Palestinian people to have equal rights, to have access

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Speaker 5: to whatever they wish for under a government that sees

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Speaker 5: both counterparts equally, and the obviously accountability and reparations that

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Speaker 5: would need to happen in order to get there. I

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Speaker 5: think that our responsibility as Israeli left is to keep

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Speaker 5: fighting for that, is to keep fighting for that.

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Speaker 4: Within Israel and within Palestine.

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Speaker 5: So, whether it's protective presence in the West Bank, protective

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Speaker 5: presence is a kind of program where you sleep at

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Speaker 5: different Palestinian homes every night just in case settlers come

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Speaker 5: in the middle of the night to attack or the

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Speaker 5: army comes in the middle of the night to attack,

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Speaker 5: and you're there serving a protective presence. You obviously have

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Speaker 5: a privilege. You have an Israeli passport, you're Jewish. That

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Speaker 5: is a privilege on this land. And to be there,

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Speaker 5: you know, obviously you don't decide what goes down. You

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Speaker 5: ask each family how they want to deal with this,

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Speaker 5: and you serve that. So I think protective presence is

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Speaker 5: one of the most important things Israeli's israel leftists can do,

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Speaker 5: because yeah, like I said earlier, it's just getting worse

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Speaker 5: and worse, and it's at a high. It's always been bad,

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Speaker 5: but the past. Honestly, I think since no other land

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Speaker 5: came out, I think it's like gotten a lot of

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Speaker 5: attention on them. Essentially, well, there's always been attacked by

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Speaker 5: settlers of course, yeah, but I think that, Yeah, in

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Speaker 5: the past year it's gotten to an all time high.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's also kind of like the general impunity that

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Speaker 3: the Israeli government and the settler movement like exactly not yet,

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Speaker 3: especially after Biden left, like not that he was holding

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Speaker 3: them accountable, but at course certainly gloves were off after

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Speaker 3: that for sure.

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Speaker 4: No, no, exactly, that is very true.

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Speaker 5: But basically in the last year two years, it's gotten

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Speaker 5: much much worse. So I think Israeli left us have

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Speaker 5: a responsibility to be serve as protective presence for one

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Speaker 5: number one, I think number two, they have a responsibility

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Speaker 5: to educate their society and to not only educate, but

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Speaker 5: to constantly learn. I feel like so many people in

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Speaker 5: Israel are in just like this constant victimhood of like

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Speaker 5: the whole world is against us, like everyone's anti Semitic,

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Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah blah, and like from that to

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Speaker 5: what actually I mean, Obviously there's anti Semitism, obviously there

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Speaker 5: are people not saying that there isn't of course, but

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Speaker 5: without any accountability for what we have turned our backs

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Speaker 5: to over the past two and a half years, Like

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Speaker 5: there's so much work to be done, and I think,

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Speaker 5: you know the easy way, whether it's a Western.

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Speaker 4: Or abroad telling you like, well, why do you live.

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Speaker 5: In Palestine You should leave blah blah blah, or whether

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Speaker 5: it's a Palestinian in the West Bank being like you

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Speaker 5: can't leave, like you have, we need you here. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: it's an unnatural ecosystem to have, you know, leftist activist

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Speaker 5: running through villages in the West I mean, but but

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Speaker 5: that's the reality of things. So as long as I

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Speaker 5: am here, living on this land and where I'm from,

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Speaker 5: I'm going to do everything in my power to resist

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Speaker 5: what is happening and to learn together with other people.

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Speaker 5: It's it's hard because we're not we're a really tiny

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Speaker 5: community like that. You know, there's people that again are

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Speaker 5: against you know, all the war blah blah blah, like

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Speaker 5: but yeah, but not seeing how that is like interconnected

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Speaker 5: with the entire premise of this state. There's a lot

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Speaker 5: of work to be done, and it's hard because you're

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Speaker 5: also bitter, like you know, and you want to have

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Speaker 5: compassion within you're bitter.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, ah, you're like you've made so much

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Speaker 3: work for Yeah, I mean, also I get it.

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Speaker 4: I've been there. I wasn't raised in a left home.

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Speaker 5: I know what it is to be raised up conservative,

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Speaker 5: right wing, you know, Zionists, and I'm obviously very far

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Speaker 5: from that. But I know what it's like to have

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Speaker 5: to leave everything you've been raised on. I know what

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Speaker 5: it's like to have family not want to talk to you.

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Speaker 5: I know what it's like to have friends not want

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Speaker 5: to be friends with you anymore, to have so many

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Speaker 5: people around you're telling you that you're wrong but you

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Speaker 5: know that this is the right thing to do. And

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Speaker 5: I get that, and I have compassion for that. But

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Speaker 5: then there's also just like sometimes you're.

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Speaker 3: Just like, yeah, no, I can't I can't imagine. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's a very difficult journey to travel through. I understand

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Speaker 3: the sentiment that you've expressed that like the last two

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Speaker 3: years should have been enough. Yeah, but also it's like

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Speaker 3: this whole identity is fragile and people are human beings,

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Speaker 3: and like it's difficult for them to like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying anything new, just reiterating what you said about

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Speaker 3: like unlearning, Like it's it's an extremely difficult thing to

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Speaker 3: go through, I think.

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Speaker 5: But do you understand like, you know, you're a Palestinian

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Speaker 5: and like me complaining about this thing that we're doing.

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Speaker 5: Like it just feels like people know what's been going on,

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Speaker 5: but on Palestinians that have family friends that are subjected

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Speaker 5: to this violence and that are themselves subjected to that

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Speaker 5: violence abroad because of being Palestinian, and then what is

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Speaker 5: happening here.

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Speaker 4: It's like two different worlds.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's funny for me to even like be like,

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Speaker 5: oh yeah, like to even try to explain that, because

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Speaker 5: I'm sure people will be listening to this and be like, oh, like,

387
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Speaker 5: you know, why are they complaining? Like, but then you

388
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Speaker 5: know your society, and you know what they have or

389
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Speaker 5: haven't been exposed to, and you know what they've chosen

390
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Speaker 5: not to look at to not necessarily at this point

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Speaker 5: what they have or haven't been exposed, because I think

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Speaker 5: that's also a bit of a kind of forgiving card,

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Speaker 5: because I think at this point you still call it Ai.

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Speaker 5: If you still call it like, there's some deep reckoning

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Speaker 5: to do there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But anyways, I just feel like it's such two different

398
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Speaker 5: worlds and I think that I think as Israeli leftists

399
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Speaker 5: that live here, you know, pay taxes in this land.

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Speaker 5: We have a huge responsibility, if not the number one

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Speaker 5: responsibility to posts any in liberation. And yeah, I think

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Speaker 5: that's a very long answer to your questions.

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Speaker 3: No, No, I mean I think it's yeah, it's a

404
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 3: fair answer. I just you know, think to myself that,

405
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Speaker 3: like it's not coincidence, and it's not to take away

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Speaker 3: from the agency of like individuals. Obviously, everybody has choices

407
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Speaker 3: to make, like Israelis have choices to make. They can

408
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Speaker 3: choose to believe or not believe, or they can choose

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Speaker 3: to turn their back. But at the same time, it's

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Speaker 3: like systems have led them to point where they dehumanize

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Speaker 3: to this extent that they can see the videos and

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Speaker 3: either make excuses or pretend they're not real, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so it's like the work is to to disrupt

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Speaker 3: the systems, you know. I think in that way, I

415
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Speaker 3: think about like structural constraints that is more worthwhile in

416
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Speaker 3: my effort. If I wasn't israel leftist, I'm not, But

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Speaker 3: if I was in your shoes, like, that's more worthwhile

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Speaker 3: in my effort than to be like kind of demoralized

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Speaker 3: by individuals. If you know, if you understand what I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess that kind of leads me to my next question.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know that October seventh was such kind

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Speaker 3: of like a breaking point, but obviously the Israeli left

423
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Speaker 3: like was in the minority before as well. But what

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Speaker 3: would you say, kind of like in the last two

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Speaker 3: years and kind of to think about moving forward, what

426
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Speaker 3: are the biggest challenges that the Israeli left faces to

427
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Speaker 3: continue in its effort, whether it's to educate or to

428
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Speaker 3: be a type of protective presence, whether physically in the

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Speaker 3: West Bank or in their presence in Israel.

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Speaker 5: Well, obviously it's our you know, fascist government and fascist society,

431
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Speaker 5: you know, anyone that is like actively oppressing every minority

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Speaker 5: on this land and especially Palestinians. So I think our

433
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Speaker 5: biggest threat is our government at the moment. But I

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Speaker 5: think that our biggest, my biggest threat, if I could

435
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 5: think of, like, what is the biggest threat is apathy.

436
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 5: I think, like people not caring, people not getting up

437
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 5: and leaving their houses and doing things and organizing and

438
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 5: mobilizing just letting this happen.

439
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 4: And I think on paper, the biggest obstacle.

440
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 5: Would probably be our government that are you know, acting

441
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 5: in such a fascist, fanatic, nazi manner, and I think, yeah,

442
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 5: as an individual being a part of grassroots commun unities

443
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 5: and seeing, you know, at the end of the day,

444
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 5: there are people that are going out there and actively

445
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 5: like murdering Palestinians, that are you know, pushing for policies

446
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 5: to deport children Filipino children or children of migrant workers.

447
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 5: There's so many injustices towards different people, and there are

448
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 5: people that are like actively going out and like fighting

449
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 5: for these like terrible, terrible, fanatic ideologies. And I think

450
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 5: whenever we people don't. I said this in a podcast recently,

451
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 5: and someone told me, like, wait, you have to take

452
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 5: up that part, because it sounds like you're like voting,

453
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 5: like you'rely grooting for the.

454
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 4: Bascies to active Like.

455
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 5: No, no, no. The fact is that there are people that

456
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 5: are doing these really really bad things, and when we're

457
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 5: not countering them, when we are just letting them happen

458
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 5: and be like, oh, yeah, that sucks, but not doing

459
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: anything about it, not using our privilege or a voice

460
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 5: or a microphone to resist that, then we're conforming with it.

461
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 5: And I know that's not fun to think that. It's

462
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 5: not fun. It's not fun. To like go or organize protests.

463
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 5: It's not fun to do a lot, even though actually

464
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 5: there's a lot of things that are really beautiful as well,

465
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 5: being in the West Bank, being with people, playing with children,

466
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 5: like these are beautiful, beautiful things.

467
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 4: It's not like we're doing that.

468
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 5: But I think when it's within Israeli society, when it's

469
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 5: organizing protests, when it's joining a protest as a number,

470
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 5: when it's you know, learning and doing un learning, it's

471
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 5: not always easy and it's not always someone's first yeah

472
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 5: decision to make.

473
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 4: But I think that when you don't do that, I

474
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 4: think that is the biggest threat.

475
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 5: You know, in the Holocaust and many different atrocities over

476
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: the years, the thing that like stood out most was

477
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 5: people that were silent and people that yeah, didn't resist

478
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 5: in one way or another.

479
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 4: Like that movie Zone of Interest, Like oh my god,

480
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: that movie.

481
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 5: That movie just shaped these past two and a half years.

482
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 5: Like I saw it a few months after October seventh,

483
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: and I just every moment that life just existed in

484
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 5: Israel and you saw warplanes flying above you, and you

485
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 5: know what's going happen. You hear too, like you hear

486
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 5: bombs falling you hear, and everyone's just like gotten used

487
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 5: to it, and you're just like, we're living in zone

488
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 5: of interest.

489
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 4: Yeah that's wild.

490
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,719
Speaker 5: And yeah, I think it's like a constant question of

491
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 5: do I want to be a part of the society

492
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 5: do I want to fight?

493
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 4: Life would be much easier.

494
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: If I moved away and I was just like fuck

495
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 5: this place, which is not a bad thing to do.

496
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 5: I have many friends that have done this, and I

497
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 5: understand it. It's really hard. You know, life would be

498
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 5: easier if I just left. It's not the I don't

499
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 5: want to say, it's not the sexy narrative to be

500
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 5: like like, look we can both you know, Look, you know,

501
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 5: let's learn. It's not fun to be talking and trying

502
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 5: to reason with fascists like or people that are in deep.

503
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 4: Denial of reality. You're really well intertwined with.

504
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 5: But I think it's my moral responsibility as an Israeli

505
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 5: to be here and as long as I can and

506
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 5: help create platforms for our society to learn and resist.

507
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

508
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: No, I think, like you said, there are different pathways,

509
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: but I can definitely understand like the feeling you have

510
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: that it's like an application of responsibility. Having been a

511
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: part of the society to some degree to yeah, throw

512
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: your hands essentially.

513
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 4: One last question.

514
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: I was watching the documentary Coexistence My Ass, which is

515
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: an incredible documentary. I really encourage people to watch it

516
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: if they can. And it's filmed and it incorporates that

517
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 3: moment of October se and shows to I mean, I

518
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: think implies though of course I don't know how widely

519
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 3: this applies, but it shows and implies how parts of

520
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: the left fell off, you know, after October seventh. Do

521
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: you feel like, now we're twenty twenty six, we're recording

522
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: February twenty second, twenty twenty six, do you feel like

523
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: people are starting.

524
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 4: To like come back.

525
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 5: I don't know, or did just the left get smaller.

526
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 5: I think the radical left has become just much more

527
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 5: tight knit. And yeah, whoever's a part of it is

528
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 5: kind of a part of it. People are always welcome

529
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 5: to join and be a part, but it's kind of,

530
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 5: you know, you kind of have your usual suspects at

531
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 5: this point, and I think the broader like I don't know,

532
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: liberal Zionists that will call themselves left, and Israel just

533
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 5: like isn't really left because they're talking about a democracy

534
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 5: within an apartheid state. They are, like I said earlier,

535
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 5: sending their sons to or I'm not saying that's an

536
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 5: easy thing, but at the same time opposing the war

537
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 5: and not acknowledging Palestinian suffering. And I think there's become

538
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 5: many people and this is from my personal experience, that

539
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: just are like like I said, apathetic, kind of like

540
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 5: looking forward with their hands on the sides of each

541
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: of their eyes, trying not to see what's happening. You know,

542
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 5: there are people thousands, tens of thousands in the streets protesting.

543
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 5: You know, they'll be waving Israeli flags. That's hard for me.

544
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 5: I don't feel like I'm in the group that would

545
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 5: ever wave a flag. And I think they see themselves

546
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 5: as left. Yeah again, like I said, like, you can't

547
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 5: be fighting for human rights, liberal ideologies within an apartheid state.

548
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 5: You can't fight for democracy in an apartheid state. Like

549
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 5: we have to touch the root of this, all every

550
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 5: injustice happening on this land or in Israel in forty eight, Like,

551
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 5: in my opinion, the root of it is the occupation.

552
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 5: We've planted roots on rotten soil, We've pushed people out

553
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 5: of their homes and took them as our own, and

554
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 5: we're not really willing to reconcile what we've become, what

555
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 5: we've done. And I think only when that starts to

556
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 5: happen there could be some sort of future here on

557
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 5: this land for both people. But as long as we're

558
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 5: not acknowledging the atrocities we are committing, and the atrocities

559
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: are silence is allowing to perpetuate, then the left here

560
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 5: is very very tiny.

561
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: And I say that not to toot our own horn.

562
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 5: You know, it's not in a way of like's not

563
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 5: we're not on a moral high ground, Like maybe there

564
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 5: was a moment where I did feel that way in a.

565
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 4: Sense of like I know and you don't know.

566
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 5: It's like, but then you know very quickly in order

567
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 5: to turn your activism into something sustainable, you have to

568
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 5: remind yourself this is what I believe in. This is love,

569
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 5: and it's not from bitterness, and it's not from being

570
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 5: on a moral high ground like I'm doing this because

571
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 5: I believe in it as me as DD and I

572
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 5: really hope other people join and other people also open

573
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 5: their hearts to these injustices and realize that in order

574
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 5: for everyone to have a just reality of just future,

575
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 5: then you have to fight for everyone to have those

576
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 5: rights as well.

577
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for that. I always say, like,

578
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is applicable lots of places.

579
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: I say it here in the United States, like when

580
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: there was a crackdown on pro Palestine protesters and just

581
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 3: the complete reversal of freedom of speech and everything like

582
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: that because they happened to be pro Palestine. I said,

583
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: you know, this is eroding the tenuous democracy you have.

584
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: It's democracy for all of us or none of us.

585
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: And in Israel it's like, you can be liberal or

586
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: you can call yourself the left and advocate in this way.

587
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: But unless, like you said, you realize what the construction

588
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 3: of the state and its continuation kind of like this

589
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: endless ethnic cleansing project that's happening in the territories, It's like,

590
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: unless you address that, it will bleed into you.

591
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: So it's you.

592
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: Know, for a variety of reasons, moral reasons, of course,

593
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: but also self interest. Dahlia Schenlin has an interesting article

594
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: about this and an interesting argument about this that I'll

595
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: link in the show notes. And I would say she's

596
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: a believer in maybe a Confederation or something like that.

597
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: But her analysis is the occupation ruined the potential of

598
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: Israeli democracy.

599
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: Like I said, she comes at it.

600
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: From a very kind of different angle I think than

601
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: you do, but still is a reasonable argument at the

602
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: end of it.

603
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 4: But yeah, thank you so much, Danielle.

604
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: This has been a really rich conversation and I think

605
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: that the listeners will benefit a lot from having this

606
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: laid out. And of course I'll include everything in the

607
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: show notes about the groups that we mentioned.

608
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for inviting me. And yeah, I

609
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 4: hope I didn't talk your head off, No, not at all.

610
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: This is very thank you so much.

611
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 7: This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis reporting

612
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 7: from the New York State Capitol. In the early early

613
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 7: morning of Wednesday, February twenty fifth, I rode on a

614
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 7: bus from the snowy streets of the Financial District in

615
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 7: Lower Manhattan up to Albany, the New York State Capitol.

616
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 7: The bus arrived at the Armory Arena shortly before ten am.

617
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 7: Inside there was coffee and breakfast, signs and posters tax

618
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 7: the rich embroidered beanies, and over a thousand New Yorkers

619
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 7: gathered to tell Kathy Hochel and the New York State

620
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 7: Legislature that it's time to tax the rich. After recovering

621
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 7: from the morning bus ride, a rally was held in

622
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 7: the Armory Arena, hosted by New York City Councilman Chosay,

623
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 7: with speakers from local unions like the Nurses Association ten

624
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 7: ninety nine SCIU, the Taxi Workers Alliance, immigrant justice organizations, childcare,

625
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 7: housing and education advocates, as well as the co chair

626
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 7: of the New York City DSA. Following the speeches, the

627
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 7: crowd practiced chants and protest songs ahead of the march

628
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 7: to the Capitol. The rally at the Armory just wrapped up.

629
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 7: Now a thousand or so people are marching on Washington

630
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 7: towards the State Capitol Building in Albany. The crowd is

631
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 7: now in front of the Legislative building. There's some New

632
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 7: York taxicabs honking outside. The New York d Essay marching

633
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 7: band Why we Are.

634
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 8: We Need? Why we are the workers?

635
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 6: A little bit Matter we Need?

636
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 7: Is twelve thirty and the crowd is now approaching the

637
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 7: New York State Capitol Building. The crowd is stretching halfway

638
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 7: around the square in front of all these government buildings,

639
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 7: and still marching forward. I'm about to enter the State

640
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 7: Capitol building. After about a twenty five to thirty minute

641
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 7: march and some chanting outside, a steady stream of people

642
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 7: are now flowing into the Capitol.

643
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 6: You guys gotta have to exit. We cannot take any more.

644
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 9: Okay.

645
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 7: I have made it inside the Capitol building barely. The

646
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 7: last person omitted in the top security section by the

647
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 7: main entrance. But now I'm down at the lower level,

648
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 7: the concourse, and as you can hear, a massive crowd

649
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 7: is approaching the security gate in the lower concourse, taking

650
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 7: up the entirety of that corridor, and just now have

651
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 7: entered the security gate area of the Capitol. We'll return

652
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 7: to Socialist January sixth later this episode, but first some

653
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 7: context on why this protest is happening and what it's

654
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 7: hoping to achieve. On January first, Democratic Socialist a Zoron

655
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 7: Mumdani was sworn in as mayor of New York City.

656
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 7: But you don't magically get your social democracy paradise once

657
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 7: a new mayor is sworn in. Getting elected and taking

658
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 7: power is just the first step. Governor Hokel has been

659
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 7: resistant to raising taxes, and Zoron has said he's open

660
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 7: to other funding avenues, but that a small tax increase

661
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 7: on the wealthiest New Yorkers and corporations would be the

662
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 7: fairest method of funding his agenda. Since taking office, Mayor

663
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 7: Mamdani has decided to focus on governing and fostering a

664
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 7: working relationship with Kathy Hokeel, rather than directing energy towards

665
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 7: another uphill electoral battle that would create a purely adversarial

666
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 7: relationship between the Mayor and the governor, making any concessions

667
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 7: much more difficult in the interim. But extra pressure still

668
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 7: must be applied to Governor Hockel in order to secure

669
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 7: the funding for the Mamdani mandate that voters delivered in

670
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 7: the twenty twenty five election. So, rather than discarding the

671
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 7: grassroots organizing apparatus that got Mamdani elected, after the election,

672
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 7: that apparatus and its network of volunteers spun off into

673
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 7: a new organization called Our Time, which, in coordination with

674
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 7: the New York City DSA, organizes door to door canvassing,

675
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 7: phone banking, community events, and rallies to win an affordable

676
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 7: New York City and help enact Mamdani's policy agenda. Achieving

677
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 7: Mamdani's campaign promises was already going to be a tall task,

678
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 7: But then early into the new administration, the Mayor's office

679
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 7: and comptroller discovered the city was facing an unexpected financial

680
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 7: crisis in the form of a twelve billion dollar deficit

681
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 7: left by former Mayor Eric Adams. This budget crisis was

682
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 7: due to years of financial mismanagement and the under budgeting

683
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 7: of essential services like rental and cash assistance, shelters, health insurance,

684
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 7: and special education. While in office, Eric Adams covered up

685
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 7: this massive budget deficit, leaving the gaps grossly understated, gaps

686
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 7: that were made worse by divestment in New York City

687
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 7: by the state under former Governor Andrew Cuomo. Since the

688
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 7: financial crisis of the seventies, the New York City mayor

689
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 7: has been required by law to have a balanced budget.

690
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 7: So rather than sweeping this under the rug by continuing

691
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 7: to cook the city's books like his predecessor, Zoron chose

692
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 7: complete transparency about the crisis he has inherited and how

693
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 7: his administration will attempt to solve it. Zoron signed an

694
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 7: executive order to designate chief Savings Officers in every city

695
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 7: agency to quote, streamlined processes and eliminate waste. Through his

696
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 7: relationship with Governor Kathy Hochel, the mayor secured one point

697
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 7: five billion dollars in state aid last month. That money,

698
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 7: combined with higher than expected Wall Street revenues, new savings measures,

699
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 7: and eliminating inefficiencies and bureaucratic waste, have shrunk the deficit

700
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 7: to five point five billion, still a painful gap to fill.

701
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 7: In the preliminary budget, unveiled February seventeenth, the mayor laid

702
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 7: out two paths to close this gap. The first is

703
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 7: a two percent income tax increase on New Yorker's making

704
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 7: over a million dollars a year, as well as a

705
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 7: tax on the most profitable corporations. If that doesn't happen,

706
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 7: the city will be forced to use the limited tools

707
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 7: at its disposal by rating the Rainy Day Fund and

708
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 7: raising city property tax by nine point five percent. Mayor

709
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 7: Mamdani says this second option is one of last resort,

710
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 7: as the property tax is the only mechanism for revenue

711
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 7: the city has complete control of. The preliminary budget has

712
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 7: face criticism for falling short of promises to increase funding

713
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 7: to parks and libraries. The library budget is zero point

714
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 7: one point one percent less than Mamdani campaigned on, and

715
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 7: the park budget remains flat rather than boosting it to

716
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 7: one percent of the total budget as hoped. Though this

717
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 7: is still preliminary and subject to change. This budget does

718
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 7: contain five hundred million dollars for new programmatic spending, including

719
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 7: new funding for shelter services, mental health care, and the

720
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 7: Emergency Food Program, and cancels in Eric Adams's plan to

721
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 7: add five thousand more NYPD officers, Though as promised, their

722
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 7: budget remains effectively the same. Mayor Mamdani says that funding

723
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 7: for his proposed Department of Community Safety will be covered

724
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 7: in the executive budget later this April. A number of

725
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 7: Mamdani's key policies don't relate to the city budget. For example,

726
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 7: making buses free will require deals with the state the MTA,

727
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 7: but Mamdanie just appointed six new people to the Rent

728
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 7: Guidelines Board, making a rent freeze more likely. In his

729
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 7: second week in office, mcdonnie announced a partnership with the

730
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 7: governor to provide universal childcare for kids under five in

731
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 7: New York State and in New York City, expand pre

732
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 7: K the free three K program and free childcare for

733
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 7: two year olds, which the state will fully fund for

734
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 7: the first two years on top of the city budget crisis.

735
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 7: The tax the Rich protests are also in the backdrop

736
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 7: of Trump's tax cuts and the dismantling of the social

737
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 7: safety net, calls to tax the richer, calls to fund

738
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 7: local services, and whether the massive cuts to snap food

739
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 7: stamps and medicaid in Trump's One Big, Beautiful Bill. The

740
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 7: Tax the Rich campaign writes, quote, if we don't tax

741
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 7: the ritch, millions of New Yorkers will lose healthcare or

742
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 7: go hungry. New York can afford to stand up to

743
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 7: Trump's agenda unquote. At the Albany rally, City Councilman chi

744
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 7: Osa spoke about how New York State has over one

745
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 7: hundred billionaires and New York actually gained thirteen thousand millionaires

746
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty four alone. This fight to tax the

747
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 7: rich is a fight that the unions are united on,

748
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 7: as demonstrated by the attendees and representatives present at the

749
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 7: Albany rally.

750
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 10: Everyone needs to feel the low United Auto Orders Region.

751
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 5: Nine a.

752
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 6: National stand Christian.

753
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 10: We gotta give this one a shout out because they

754
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 10: just came off a historic strike and a huge, huge Contractman.

755
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: You you are saying Nurses.

756
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 11: Association, Media Patres.

757
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 10: And President Sciu. Not the union is network, the Doctor's Council,

758
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 10: the New York Taxi Workers signs, New.

759
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: Yorker's United for Child's Care.

760
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: What lot is quality education?

761
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 5: That we are burning family is mard.

762
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 8: But we really appreciate your here.

763
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 10: And when the coalition this strong made no mistake.

764
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: We are going to overcome the political power of the

765
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: billionaire class.

766
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 2: But we aren't going to sap.

767
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: The rich or I really are we can inform.

768
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 7: This coalition went up to albody pushing for a handful

769
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 7: of bills currently under consideration. The first is a progressive

770
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 7: state income tax bill, which will create new tax brackets

771
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 7: starting at one million dollars, so that as people earn

772
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 7: millions more dollars in income, they pay a slightly higher

773
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 7: share in taxes. This would raise an estimated twenty one

774
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 7: billion dollars annually. The second bill is called the Fair

775
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 7: Share Act, which seeks to address how New York City

776
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 7: essentially charges a flat income tax if you earn fifty

777
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 7: thousand dollars or five million dollars, where you pay practically

778
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 7: the same rate of roughly three point nine percent. The

779
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 7: Fair Share Act seeks to add a two percent surcharge

780
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 7: to those with incomes of over one million dollars per year,

781
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 7: which would raise about four billion dollars annually. The third

782
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 7: bill is a tax on the most profitable corporations, a

783
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 7: corporate tax bill ensuring companies doing business in New York

784
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 7: State with over two point five million in profits pay

785
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 7: what they owe in taxes. This proposal would raise seven

786
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 7: billion dollars annually. And finally, a bill which could be

787
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 7: funded by some of the former tax bills is the

788
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 7: Universal Childcare Act, which would ensure free, year round, full

789
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 7: day childcare without means testing, and guarantee that all childcare

790
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 7: workers are paid a genuine living wage. As of now,

791
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 7: twenty two New York City council people have signed on

792
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 7: to tax the rich by supporting the Fair Share Act.

793
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 7: Only four more council people are needed to reach a majority.

794
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 7: So with that context, let's return to the Albany protest,

795
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 7: both outside and inside the New York Capitol Building.

796
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 8: Why oday billionaires make them pay.

797
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 4: We pay taxes?

798
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 5: Why don't pay billionaires make them pay we pay taxes?

799
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: Whid ot day billionaires.

800
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 7: I was the asked person to be allowed into the

801
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 7: Capitol building. There is hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of people

802
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 7: outside now trying to get in to tell the politicians,

803
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 7: representatives and the governor that they want to tax the rich.

804
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 7: I am in the lower concourse of the Capitol building,

805
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 7: barely getting through security on the top floor because there's

806
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 7: so many people, not because I was inherently dangerous, but

807
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 7: now a large, large group of people are coming in

808
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 7: via the lower concourse, about to reach the main security

809
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 7: gate at the lower level. Looks like a few hundred

810
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 7: down this corridor about to enter the Capitol holding signs

811
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 7: taking up the entire passageway.

812
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: It's the Coney group.

813
00:48:53,280 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 7: It is the Public University Union that has appeared. Later

814
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 7: that day, I interviewed someone with PSC, the Cooney staff Union.

815
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 12: I'm Liz Stevenson. I am an academic advisor at City Tech,

816
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 12: which means I'm a member of the psc Quny Union.

817
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 7: Why is a PC here at Albany today?

818
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 4: So PSC.

819
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 12: I'm on the Legislative Committee of the PSC, and many

820
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 12: folks from our committee as well as other PSC members,

821
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 12: have come to Albany because we really want to see

822
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 12: fair taxation in New York State. You know, right now

823
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 12: a lot of millionaires and billionaires are not paying their

824
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 12: fair share, especially as a result of Trump's tax cuts,

825
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 12: and that means that we're not seeing the services we need,

826
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 12: and certainly at CuNi, we're not seeing the funding that

827
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 12: we need to make our schools quality schools with safe

828
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 12: and healthy facilities. Students are not getting.

829
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 5: The services that they need.

830
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 12: Class sizes are large, so we want to see more

831
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 12: full time faculty, We want to see more academic advisors,

832
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 12: we want to see more mental health counselors, and generally

833
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 12: we want to see better facilities for CuNi. And we

834
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 12: know that the only way that we can get the

835
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 12: funding that we need for many services, including CuNi, is

836
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 12: by taxing the rich. We really need to raise revenue

837
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 12: in the state.

838
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 7: So there's the three tax bills, the income, the corporate,

839
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 7: and the New York City specific one. But on the

840
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 7: on the PC flyers, it's also another bill or act

841
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 7: that is being pushed for specifically to help CUNEY get

842
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 7: more funding. Can you talk about that aspect of the

843
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 7: fight here?

844
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 4: Sure?

845
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 12: A little known former state legislator named Zoron Mamdani wrote

846
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 12: this bill called the Repair Act, And what the Repair

847
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 12: Act would do is allow the state to collect property

848
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 12: taxes from NYU and Colombia and then use that money

849
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 12: to fund public higher education like CuNi. So right now,

850
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 12: you know, as technically as nonprofits, NYU and Colombia do

851
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 12: not pay any property tax. In many places around the country,

852
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 12: there are similar institutions that still make what we call pilots,

853
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 12: so payments in lieu of taxes, and YUM in Columbia

854
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 12: don't even do that. So it would take a constitutional

855
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 12: amendment at the state level to require them to pay

856
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 12: property taxes, and that's what the Repair Act would allow

857
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 12: us to do. It would have to go through multiple

858
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 12: legislatures in order to get a constitutional amendment that would

859
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 12: require them to pay property taxes. That's another way to

860
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 12: raise revenue for CuNi.

861
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 7: Liz also told me that PSC is fighting for a

862
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 7: quote unquote new deal for Cooney because for the past

863
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 7: few decades there's been divestment in public higher education across

864
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 7: the country and especially in New York. Under Cuomo, Cooney

865
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 7: suffered from defunding and is now currently suffering from chronic

866
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 7: understaffing and facilities in decay. All While student enrollment has increased,

867
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 7: teachers have resigned or retired and not been replaced. So

868
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 7: PSC is fighting for a renewed in vestment to hire

869
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 7: more full time staff and repair and maintain facilities to

870
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 7: improve not just their working conditions but their students' learning conditions.

871
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 7: A part of the new deal for Cooney is also

872
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 7: fighting for the first sixty credits to be free for

873
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 7: all students. Once the crowd outside managed to find a

874
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 7: way to enter the Capitol through the alternative entrances, groups

875
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 7: split off to march around the interior perimeter while others

876
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 7: lobbied legislators. Lunch was set up on the third floor.

877
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 7: After a quick bite, even more people dispersed through the

878
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 7: capital complex to hand out flyers to legislators and their staff,

879
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 7: while small groups lobbied door to door in the Legislative

880
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 7: Office building and organizers attended private meetings. The action was

881
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 7: timed to catch politicians and capital staff while they were

882
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 7: on their own lunch break as they walked around the

883
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 7: Empire State Plaza and eventually back to the chambers. By

884
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 7: early afternoon, as a grand finale, hundreds of people packed

885
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 7: the corridor from the Legislative offices to the Assembly and Senate,

886
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 7: lining both sides of the hallway with chanting union members

887
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 7: and organizers handing flyers to politicians and staff who hurried

888
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 7: through the corridor. Supportive Assembly members cheered on the protest

889
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 7: as they walked through the tunnel. That is the current

890
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 7: state of the tax the Rich corridor.

891
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 11: Inside wit side?

892
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 7: Are you on.

893
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 5: Side?

894
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 12: Side?

895
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 8: Are you?

896
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 7: Around three pm, the crowd left the corridor, boarded buses

897
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 7: outside the Capital Complex and rode back to New York City,

898
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 7: just in time to catch the sunset. Meanwhile, at a

899
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 7: press conference on pre K and three K enrollment, Mayor

900
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 7: Zoron Mamdani was asked about his absence from the Albany

901
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 7: Tax the Rich Rally.

902
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 9: Hey, Mayor, how are you doing?

903
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 6: Jay?

904
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 9: There's a Tax the Rich rally today in Albany. You're

905
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 9: not there, obviously, even though taxing the rich has been

906
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 9: one of your consistent calls to.

907
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 10: Raise revenue for the city.

908
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 9: So I wondering if you could talk a little bit

909
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 9: about why you decided not to be there. Were you

910
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 9: worried about irking the governor on this issue? And secondly,

911
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 9: do you think it disappoints people in this movement that

912
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 9: you've called for that, but you're you're not necessarily at

913
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 9: this rally.

914
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 13: So I make it clear time and time again that

915
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 13: I believe in the importance of taxing the wealthiest New

916
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 13: Yorkers that little bit more, as well as the most

917
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 13: profitable corporations, and doing so while also ending the drain

918
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 13: that has long characterized our city's fiscal relationship with the state.

919
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 13: And I've said this both because it's important to create

920
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 13: a fair at tax system and also because of the

921
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 13: fact that we're facing a five point four billion dollar

922
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 13: fiscal deficit at this time, the likes of which we

923
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 13: haven't seen since the Great Recession, and my not attending

924
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 13: one event does not change in any way the strength

925
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 13: with which I believe this, the urgency with which I

926
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 13: believe we have to respond to it. And I'm thankful

927
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 13: for New Yorkers who continue to make it clear that

928
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 13: they too want to build a city that everyone who

929
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 13: calls it home can afford. The Governor and I are

930
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 13: in constant communication, and we are always looking to build

931
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 13: a healthier, stronger city. I'm appreciative of our partnership in that,

932
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 13: and I know we have a long budget process to

933
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 13: go through, and I'm encouraged by the beginnings of it.

934
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 7: Rally, attendance was lower than organizers hoped. The early morning

935
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 7: start and blizzer a few days prior likely effect and turnout,

936
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 7: though as already discussed, many unions did sign on to

937
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 7: the action and send representative members. Organizing on a grand

938
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 7: scale right after what's perceived as a huge victory like

939
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 7: winning an election can actually be difficult, even for a

940
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 7: group like Our Time that's working to use the organizing

941
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 7: apparatus that got Mamdani elected to help enact his policy agenda.

942
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 7: Not as many people will be keen on canvassing right

943
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 7: after spending six months canvassing for an election, even if

944
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 7: the election was a victory. Our Time aimed to send

945
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 7: twenty five thousand Tax the Rich letters to state legislators

946
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 7: by the end of January, but as of now the

947
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 7: website lists under seven thousand letters sent. But the Albany

948
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 7: takeover protest was just the opening act. The state budget

949
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 7: is set to be finalized by March thirty first, and

950
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 7: there will be Tax the Rich events across the state

951
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 7: leading up to the end of the month. This next

952
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 7: week and a half, New York City DSA and Our

953
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 7: Time will host a Week of Action or a week

954
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 7: of tax shin to increase pressure on the legislature and

955
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 7: the governor as they head into budget negotiations, proving the

956
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 7: diversity of this coalition. Confusingly, there are two different time

957
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 7: spans listed for the Week of Action across the social

958
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 7: media and org websites March fifth through the tenth or

959
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 7: March seventh through the fourteenth.

960
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: But regardless.

961
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 7: Between the fifth and the fourteenth, there are organized actions

962
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 7: happening across the five boroughs and statewide in Buffalo, Hudson Valley, Ithaca, Rochester, Syracuse,

963
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 7: and Westchester. There'll be door knocking, phone banking, collecting petition signatures,

964
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 7: and a kickoff happy hour social at Solus in the

965
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 7: East Village on Thursday, March fifth. To quote from our

966
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 7: time quote, what happens in Albany this winter will shape

967
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 7: Zorn's first year in office and determine whether working families

968
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 7: get the relief they need. We have until March to

969
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 7: build enough pressure to win a state budget that funds

970
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,919
Speaker 7: free childcare, backfills the cuts, and secures resources to do

971
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 7: so much more unquote, beyond running the biggest city in

972
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 7: the country. As a secondary goal, Momdani seeks to provide

973
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 7: an example that left wing politicians can responsibly govern and

974
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 7: that left wing policies can make people's lives better and

975
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 7: more affordable, and New Yorkers are organizing to make that

976
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 7: example as strong as it can be.

977
00:58:48,960 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 10: Where you are, Hi, everyone, and welcome to the show.

978
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 10: I'm joined today by Gordayen, who's a journalist from Kurdistan

979
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 10: who's based in Germany, and we're going to discuss the

980
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 10: bombing of Iran. How are you got in?

981
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: Hello?

982
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 11: Thank you again for inviting me, and yeah, I'm ready

983
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,919
Speaker 11: to talk about what's happening in Iran right now.

984
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, Yeah, it's a lot, a lot is happening. I

985
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 10: mean we should begin, I suppose by if someone happens

986
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 10: to have been avoiding the news and has somehow managed

987
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 10: to avoid learning what is happening, can we give like

988
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 10: a small summary of the event sort of happened since

989
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 10: Friday night US time.

990
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 11: So yeah, it was early morning, around eight nine in

991
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 11: the morning in Iran time, that the Israeli army attacked

992
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 11: the center of Tehran where Ali Khameni's house, which is

993
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 11: known as Bete Aberti, the Leader's house, was located. And

994
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 11: apparently the Iranian officials were having a very important meeting there,

995
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 11: and following that there were more attacks across Tehran and

996
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 11: other cities. And by night, as the attacks were going on,

997
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 11: As the strikes were going on, bennam and Antonio came

998
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 11: on TV and he said that I have some news.

999
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 11: I have some information that confirms that Alikamani is dead,

1000
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 11: which caused a lot of panic and excitement among the people,

1001
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 11: and everybody was really excited and they were waiting for

1002
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 11: this to be confirmed. And then some people came out

1003
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 11: and said, no, it's not true. But after some hours,

1004
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 11: the Iranian state media, the TV channels all started confirming that.

1005
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,439
Speaker 11: So following that the attacks did not stop. They were

1006
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 11: still going on. And then the American Army also joined.

1007
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 11: This is a completely coordinated cooperation between US and Israel.

1008
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 11: So as they were attacking different IRGC bases and the

1009
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 11: facilities belonging to the government, the Iranian government started attacking

1010
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 11: the neighboring countries. They attacked Uaa, they attacked Katar, they

1011
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 11: attacked Bahrain, they attacked Iraq, and they attacked also Iraqi

1012
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 11: Curtistan region, and they were just mainly targeting the US

1013
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 11: basis or facilities belonging to the US, but soon after

1014
01:01:55,160 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 11: they started attacking civilian buildings like hotels, like just randomly

1015
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 11: attacking different directions, And at the same time they also

1016
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 11: started sending missiles and drones towards Israel, which majority of

1017
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 11: them were intercepted. So they've been attacking these neighboring countries

1018
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,439
Speaker 11: since the beginning of this war, and they have been

1019
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 11: specifically targeting Iraqi Kurdistan because first, the US has a

1020
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 11: lot of big military bases there in Iraq and Iraqi

1021
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 11: Kuddhistan region, and at the same time they are the

1022
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 11: Kurdish parties from Iran who are based there and the

1023
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 11: regime has been seeing them as one of the major

1024
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 11: threats since decades. So since the beginning of this whole war,

1025
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 11: they have been targeting these Kurdish parties a lot, and

1026
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 11: they also attacked there is a refugee base that the

1027
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 11: families of the Kurdish forces basically lived there. They also

1028
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 11: attacked there, but luckily nobody was killed or injured, but

1029
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 11: some leagues were damaged. And they attacked Erbil with drones

1030
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 11: and missiles several times, which were all mainly intercepted by

1031
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 11: the US. Air defense systems because of the remainings of

1032
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 11: the missiles and the drones that were falling down from

1033
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 11: the sguise. Some people were lightly injured or some buildings

1034
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 11: were damaged. But yeah, still it's a crazy thing to

1035
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 11: see because previously in the past years, Iran had attacked

1036
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 11: or built several times and also other regions, but the

1037
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 11: US or the other countries that were there, they didn't

1038
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 11: really intercept the drones or the missiles. There's also something

1039
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 11: new that we're seeing. It's also important to know that

1040
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 11: Iran has also attacked Cypress, like British military bases were

1041
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 11: targeted there, but the drones or the missiles were sent

1042
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 11: from Lebanon. What's going on right now is the full

1043
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 11: scare war, and I think when you look at it,

1044
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 11: it's nothing like what we've seen before. If you want

1045
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 11: to compare it to what happened in Iraq the US invasion,

1046
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 11: this is completely different. I think it's it's even larger

1047
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 11: than that because Iran is a very big country and

1048
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 11: there are hundreds or maybe thousands of points across the

1049
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 11: country that have been targeted with heavy bombings inside Tehran,

1050
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 11: around Tehran. It's also really incredible to know, because the

1051
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 11: amount of intel that you need for this is also

1052
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 11: really a lot. I've seen videos, I've seen footage, I've

1053
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 11: seen reports that some random checkpoints on some remote places,

1054
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 11: especially in Curtison, we're targeted. So this is also something

1055
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 11: that shows that how really coordinated and well planned this

1056
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 11: attack and this war is. I want to jump into

1057
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 11: something else. A lot of people areally focused on these

1058
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 11: major attacks, major developments like yeah, they're attacking Dubai, they're

1059
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 11: attacking Doh. These are all happening, and of course the

1060
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 11: civilians they are also in danger. I think somebody in

1061
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 11: Doha was killed in the first day. It was just

1062
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 11: a civilian that was killed by the remainings of a

1063
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 11: massol or a drone. And this has made things really

1064
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 11: hard for the people on the ground. Many people are

1065
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 11: trapped in the airports on the borders. So this is

1066
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 11: something that's happening to the people outside of I round,

1067
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 11: but inside Iran there is massive bombings everywhere wherever the

1068
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 11: iergy or the intelligence service has a facility. And at

1069
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 11: the same time, the regime has cut off the internet,

1070
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 11: even though the normal phone lines barely work, and it's

1071
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 11: just so hard and almost impossible to get really precise

1072
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 11: information about what's happening in the cities and the towns around,

1073
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 11: just like what happened in the in the early January,

1074
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 11: like during the process. Only a few people have access

1075
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 11: to the internet, and it's very limited. Yeah, they share

1076
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 11: some videos with channels and like with news agencies, but

1077
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 11: it's very limited. For example, in my hometown today, some

1078
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 11: of the major I ergency bases and intelligence facilities that

1079
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 11: were some of the most important ones in western side

1080
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 11: of Iran, or as we call it, Iranian critisonal Rochalot,

1081
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 11: they were all bombed and I've been trying to contact

1082
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 11: people to see what happened exactly. I'm sure that there

1083
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 11: are civilians killed because the regime also has put all

1084
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 11: these bases inside the cities, near parks, near hospitals, near schools,

1085
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 11: near just random houses in the city. So a lot

1086
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 11: of people are possibly killed, but we don't know how

1087
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 11: many who are they. So this is also like not

1088
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 11: just in my city, in other cities to it's the same.

1089
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 11: This is also something that a lot of people are

1090
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 11: not talking about. But again, this is war and the

1091
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 11: bombings are so heavy and they're all being carried out

1092
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 11: with really advanced weapons, and it's just so hard. And

1093
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 11: when I talk to the people outside of Iran, the

1094
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 11: people in Europe, like some of my friends relatives, everybody's

1095
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 11: worried that what if one of my relatives, what if

1096
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 11: one of my one of my friends gets get killed

1097
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 11: randomly on the street. But because of this that people

1098
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 11: are seeing this also on the news. At least I

1099
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 11: know this from my family because I was able to

1100
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 11: talk to them two nights ago. Everybody's staying home, they

1101
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 11: have enough food for a few weeks, and they're just

1102
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 11: watching the news. They don't go out, ye, they're just

1103
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 11: trying to stay safe. But at the same time, in

1104
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 11: major cities like for me, for example, the people who

1105
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 11: have a house outside of the city or in a village,

1106
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 11: or if they have relatives outside of the city, they

1107
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 11: have moved out because it's it's it's generally safer. There

1108
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 11: are not many IRGC bases or like government government buildings

1109
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 11: or whatever in the villages and smaller towns, so this

1110
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 11: is also happening and people are trying to stay safe

1111
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 11: as much as possible. And yeah, this is this is

1112
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 11: something that's going on. And at the same time, when

1113
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 11: I talk to the people. I mean, I haven't been

1114
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 11: able to properly talk to anyone because the internet is

1115
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 11: really bad. But like I talked to my family and

1116
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 11: they told me that the food prices are really, really

1117
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 11: really high, and it's really hard to buy food now

1118
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 11: because everybody's panicking and there are shortages, Like there's some

1119
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 11: items cannot be found, some like essential items like I

1120
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 11: don't know, oil, meat and rice and things like that.

1121
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 11: It's it's it's too hard to find in the market. Yeah,

1122
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 11: and a lot of people are going to the to

1123
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 11: the gas stations to get some gas and to be

1124
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 11: prepared if something happens. But yeah, so this is also

1125
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 11: something that's going on, and people are worried about that

1126
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 11: what if it's it's going to get bigger, if it's

1127
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 11: going to scale it, so, like how are they going

1128
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 11: to deal with all these shortages. There is one more

1129
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 11: topic that I want to talk about. I also wrote

1130
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 11: about it a little bit earlier. I published some texts.

1131
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 11: It's the topic of ordinary soldiers. Yeah, explain that to people,

1132
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 11: the civilians who are forced into the military service. This

1133
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 11: is also like a very sensitive topic because there are

1134
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 11: probably thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of young men

1135
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 11: who are about eighteen years old that are forced into

1136
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 11: the military service because it's mandatory in Iran, and they

1137
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 11: are forced into this service. And there are also in

1138
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 11: these military bases, and the military bases are being targeted NonStop,

1139
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 11: and there is a possibility, I mean not the possibility,

1140
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 11: of course, it's surreal. Today one person, a young man

1141
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 11: from Curtison, was confirmed that he was killed, but I'm

1142
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 11: sure that there are more because we don't have a

1143
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,839
Speaker 11: proper internet connection so we cannot like get all the information.

1144
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 11: But these military bases are being also targeted, and of

1145
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 11: course I think a lot of them might get killed

1146
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 11: or injured. And just from my own family, one of

1147
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 11: my cousins who is twenty four, he was also forced

1148
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 11: into this because he wanted to open a business. And

1149
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 11: like in Iran, a lot of people also, maybe I

1150
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 11: should give a little bit of context, like in Iran,

1151
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 11: if you want to open a business, if you want

1152
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 11: to have a passport or things like that, you have

1153
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 11: to serve in the army and we'll give you that.

1154
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 11: So yeah, he just he was listed, like I don't know,

1155
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 11: about five months ago or so, and then he wasn't

1156
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 11: in a military base between Tabriz and Urmia and their

1157
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 11: base was targeted. Luckily, the slipping quarters were not targeted.

1158
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,919
Speaker 11: It was just where the commanders were I think staying.

1159
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 11: And yeah, I mean I couldn't talk to him, but

1160
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 11: he told my cousin who I called like a few

1161
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 11: days ago. He said that the moment that was bombed,

1162
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 11: everybody just ran out, and then everybody went back in

1163
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 11: and they took all their belongings and backpacks and they

1164
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 11: just left the military base and they went home without

1165
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,719
Speaker 11: telling the wiser or something, and they were not there.

1166
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 11: They're not going to go back there anyways. So this

1167
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 11: is also something that I am personally worried about, all

1168
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 11: those young men who are forced to be in the

1169
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 11: military basis and they are absolutely not a part of

1170
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 11: the regime. There are just civilians who are forced into this.

1171
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 11: So that that's also something that I think. It's it's

1172
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,640
Speaker 11: not really discussed because the whole focus right now is

1173
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 11: just on the major attacks. Which place was targeted or

1174
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,799
Speaker 11: like which I don't know commander was killed or things

1175
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 11: like that.

1176
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 10: M Yeah, let's take it'll break for advertisements and we'll

1177
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 10: come back, because I'd like to discuss more of that,

1178
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 10: like the structure of the Iranian state and who is

1179
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 10: and it's not like part of it. Okay, we are back,

1180
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 10: So I think that will be a really good place

1181
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 10: for us to do some deep dives. Would be people

1182
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 10: understand this part of the world through the lens of states,

1183
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 10: because they understand the world through the lens of states

1184
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 10: because they have been raised in a state system. But

1185
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 10: I don't think that it's a particularly it's not useful

1186
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 10: to see everybody who lives in the Iranian state as

1187
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 10: part of the Iranian state. It doesn't actually give us

1188
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 10: a good grasp on reality. So perhaps you could explain

1189
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 10: first of all, perhaps explaining the structures of the Iranian state.

1190
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 10: When it comes to like there are pro regime militias, right,

1191
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:52,560
Speaker 10: there are the IRGC, and then we have like the leadership,

1192
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 10: many of whom are now dead, some of whom we know,

1193
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 10: some of whom we think are dead. But then we

1194
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 10: also have and I know you and I have spoken

1195
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 10: about this before, but it's worth explaining again, right, Like

1196
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 10: Iran is the ethnically diverse country, so we have people

1197
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 10: who are ethnically excluded from power. We also have people

1198
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 10: within the majority ethnicity Persian people who are not pro ratime.

1199
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,879
Speaker 10: So could you perhaps explain like those structures that exist

1200
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 10: And then you and I spoke about this a little

1201
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 10: bit before we were recording. But many of the facilities

1202
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 10: of the regimes, armed forces and repressive forces are right

1203
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 10: in the middle of town, right right next to civilian building.

1204
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 10: So perhaps we could explain the consequences of that for

1205
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 10: civilians as bombs are falling on these facilities.

1206
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, so if I want to explain how the Iranian

1207
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 11: state system is, I would simply compare it to a

1208
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 11: full monarchy, but with a different label. Yeah, there's kink

1209
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 11: who owns all of the power, and there are the

1210
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 11: people who are around him that also share some bits

1211
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 11: of power with him. And there is the army that

1212
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 11: is in full amount of the leader or the people

1213
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 11: around him. So this is simply something like that if

1214
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 11: I want to make it very very simple. But the

1215
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 11: Iranian state structure is actually quite complicated.

1216
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 9: You know.

1217
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 11: They follow some sort of religious hierarchy that the Supreme

1218
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 11: Leader is the representative of God on earth and he

1219
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 11: is leading the Muslim nation until the Ima Mahti, the

1220
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 11: savior of the world, comes from the skies and saves

1221
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 11: the world and brings peace. So this is what they

1222
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 11: actually believe. So the Supreme Leader is actually the person

1223
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 11: who approves everything. Yeah, there is normal parliament with the

1224
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 11: representative of the people, but at the same time, there

1225
01:14:55,320 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 11: is another type of religious parliament that the sides on

1226
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 11: the interests of the regime, which consists of some high

1227
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 11: level clerics or the molas, who are on a higher

1228
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,799
Speaker 11: social level. And at the same time there is also

1229
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 11: a council of twelve people, six of them are molas,

1230
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 11: six of them are like lawyers and jurists that they

1231
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 11: are monitoring the let's say, the whole political process in

1232
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 11: the government. But whatever happens when you see that, Yeah,

1233
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 11: this is on paper in theory, this is a system

1234
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 11: that could possibly work. But all of these organizations or

1235
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 11: these parts of the regions or layers of the regime

1236
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 11: that I mentioned, all of them they follow the Supreme

1237
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 11: Leader and whatever they do has to be approved by him.

1238
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1239
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 11: I mean, I'm not talking about like I don't know,

1240
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 11: the things that are decided in the city council or

1241
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 11: like very lolol. I'm talking about the national interests or

1242
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 11: things like that, or who's going to be the next president,

1243
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:09,560
Speaker 11: for example. But basically that parliamentary system or those counselings

1244
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 11: are basically non functional. They're just there for a show.

1245
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,520
Speaker 11: And at the same time, especially in the past decades,

1246
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 11: the iergy see it's not only a military force that

1247
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 11: it's not a militia that follows the leader. It's a

1248
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:32,839
Speaker 11: whole organized and complicated structure that owns the economy, owns

1249
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 11: all the institutions in Iran and controls all of them.

1250
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 11: We're talking about the oil sector, we're talking about industry,

1251
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 11: we're talking about agriculture. I mean almost everything is owned

1252
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 11: by them. And i ergy C is a network of

1253
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 11: countless high level commanders or even let's say non military

1254
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 11: person that are that are all working together and they

1255
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 11: are running the country somehow, and of course even if

1256
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 11: the leader is dead, they still have some structures to

1257
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 11: continue to carry carry on. And this is how how

1258
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 11: this structure is in Iran, and I think this is

1259
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 11: what makes Iran very very different from other states and

1260
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 11: in the Middle East. And it's something that makes Iran

1261
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 11: also very different from what for example, if you want

1262
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,680
Speaker 11: to compare it to Suda Mhussein system or in in

1263
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 11: Libya or in Syria, it's it's very different because the

1264
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 11: IRGC has put its hands and roots everywhere in every institution.

1265
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 11: We're talking about schools, we're talking about universities, we're talking

1266
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 11: about hospitals, We're talking about anything that you can imagine,

1267
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,639
Speaker 11: even in a post office, like we were talking about

1268
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 11: this earlier, so that there is like in every governmental institution,

1269
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 11: from universities to schools and hospitals. Bi ERGC always has

1270
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 11: a specific office in every facility. It's supposed to recruit

1271
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 11: people to join the resistance, but in fact it's just

1272
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 11: a it's just an office to observe the people who

1273
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 11: are working there or the people who are going there

1274
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 11: for their daily matters. So they have control over everything,

1275
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 11: and that's what makes this regime very very structured and

1276
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 11: very hard to just topple in two nights. So that's

1277
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 11: why they are still resisting. There are still fighting back.

1278
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 11: There are still even though Israel and America have destroyed

1279
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 11: the majority of their military basis and facilities, but they

1280
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 11: are still fighting back. This is also important to understand,

1281
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:47,440
Speaker 11: I think, yeah.

1282
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, and like with it being a little bit unclearly,

1283
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 10: like who is still alive, especially in that top end

1284
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 10: of the pyramid, right, Like we know Hamad I is

1285
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 10: dead or we're pretty sure he's dead. Ran has announced

1286
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 10: he's dead. We know that other people within that religious

1287
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 10: leadership and political leadership structure are dead. We know that

1288
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 10: they struck the Assembly of Experts today, which could have

1289
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 10: removed a good number more of those religious leaders. What

1290
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 10: they did in Venezuela was that they found somebody who

1291
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 10: was no less repressive, but was amenable to doing what

1292
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 10: they wanted right specifically with resources, specifically with oil. You know,

1293
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,679
Speaker 10: we run the risk of a similar thing happening in Iran,

1294
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 10: right of like someone within the IRGC being like, we

1295
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 10: will do what you need us to do with oil

1296
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 10: as long as you allow us to continue murdering the

1297
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,720
Speaker 10: Iranian people as much as we wish. Like, that's a

1298
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 10: real worry. They will find someone who they think they

1299
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,639
Speaker 10: can do business with. That's what they wanted in Venezuela, right,

1300
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 10: run in Venezuela are different, they are both allied, but

1301
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 10: they're there very different countries. But that's a real worry

1302
01:19:58,840 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 10: for people.

1303
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 11: I think it's also like with Venezuela, it's it's it's

1304
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 11: completely different right now, because with Venezuela, America had like

1305
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 11: a clear person as you said that, yeah, he or

1306
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,560
Speaker 11: she is going to be the next leader or whatever. Yeah,

1307
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 11: but with Iran, it's not really clear yet. You know,

1308
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 11: the so called Prince Pahlavi, he is he is always

1309
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 11: on TV, always on his social media saying that I'm

1310
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 11: going to come back, I'm going to do this and that.

1311
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 11: But it's not really clear if USA and America have

1312
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 11: made a deal with him because he doesn't really have

1313
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 11: that social base that he claims to have. Yeah, and

1314
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 11: on the other side, there are the ethnic groups, especially Kurts,

1315
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 11: Balucci's and Ahuasi Arabs. They're like better organized compared to

1316
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 11: other ethnic groups. And then today we just saw that

1317
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 11: Trump has made phone calls with the kurt leaders of

1318
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,839
Speaker 11: these parties and uh, the other parties in Iraqi, Curtisan.

1319
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 11: This means something. And so yeah, it's it's not really

1320
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 11: clear that they're going to have a similar plan like

1321
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 11: Venezuela or they're going to have something completely different for

1322
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 11: for Iran. We're just waiting to see what's going to

1323
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 11: happen in the in the upcoming weeks, because it's just

1324
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 11: a few days that the war is going on. The

1325
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 11: entire region is.

1326
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 2: In a shock.

1327
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 11: It's it's it's still not clear that how people are

1328
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,600
Speaker 11: going to decide on on their future now because the

1329
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 11: war is still going on and it's a very very

1330
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 11: high level, So of course it's It's also like even

1331
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 11: when I when I was talking to my family the

1332
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,719
Speaker 11: other day, they were telling me, I mean most people

1333
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 11: in Kurdistan, I would say, majority of the people in Kurdistan,

1334
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 11: they don't want monarchy back of course, they don't want

1335
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 11: another form of dictatorship. And they would say, yeah, we

1336
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 11: want anyone to be installed, but not this Sky, not

1337
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 11: this Pala. We don't want him. Anyone is better than him. Yeah,

1338
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 11: so this is also something and I think, yeah, probably

1339
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 11: if they want to install Raza Palavi, the ethnic groups

1340
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 11: will not accept it and there's going to be more

1341
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 11: resistance and therefore more wars.

1342
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, let's take another break and we'll talk a little

1343
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 10: bit about that, maybe specifically the Curdish situation, as I

1344
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 10: know it's of interest in both of us. All right,

1345
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 10: we're back. So, yeah, you mentioned this piece, right, There

1346
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 10: was an article. It was a very poorly written article.

1347
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 10: I will say. For instance, it seemed to think that

1348
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 10: Talabani and Barzani were Iranian, but Nonetheless, the central thrust

1349
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 10: of it was correct that that Trump has communicated with

1350
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 10: the KDP and the p UK. I understand, this is

1351
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 10: like a lot of acronym coming at people, And so

1352
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 10: maybe we can just say like political parties in Iraqi, Kurdistan,

1353
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 10: Southern Kordistan. But that doesn't necessarily tell us anything. I

1354
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 10: think it's very easy. Again, Like there's this American media

1355
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 10: frame of analysis which sees groups in the Middle East

1356
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 10: as monolithic, right, the Kurds, as if they're like an

1357
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 10: entirely homogeneous entity with one political interest, which is not

1358
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 10: the case. But like for America to fully remove this

1359
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 10: regime and it's Rael, it needs either a partner for

1360
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 10: uce or to be willing to commit thousands of its

1361
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 10: own soldiers to fight and know that hundreds of them

1362
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 10: will die, right like like did in a rack, I guess,

1363
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 10: like knowing what we know and knowing that there are

1364
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 10: these groups, right, and maybe it would be good to

1365
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 10: give people a primer on the Eastern Kurdistan resistance groups

1366
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 10: and the alliance that they've recently formed, Like where are

1367
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 10: they standing right now? They released a statement yesterday, but

1368
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 10: can you explain that to a little bit to people?

1369
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 11: There are several parties across eastern Kurdistan or as they say,

1370
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 11: irenely in Kurdistan, and of course they're very diverse and

1371
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:16,720
Speaker 11: each of them have a different ideology. That's very normal. Yes,

1372
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 11: what happened in the past few months was that it's

1373
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 11: also a very great development for our people at least

1374
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:27,720
Speaker 11: because they have been also calling for a form of

1375
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 11: cooperation between these parties and they finally announced that. Of course,

1376
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 11: two parties like the Komala and another branch, they did

1377
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 11: not join it because they had some disagreements, but that

1378
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 11: is also normal. So the thing is that these parties

1379
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 11: would definitely work together if the things are going to

1380
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,679
Speaker 11: escalate more. For example, if I want to say about

1381
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 11: a week ago, the Riza Palavi, he published a statement

1382
01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 11: and he threatened Kurdish people that if they think about

1383
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:04,799
Speaker 11: autonomy or I don't know, thinking about taking quote unquote

1384
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:07,320
Speaker 11: parts of Iran's soil, we're going to use the army

1385
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 11: against them in the future. It's incredible that the first

1386
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 11: Kurdish official who answered to that statement was Abdullah Martai

1387
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,519
Speaker 11: from the Komala, who was not a part of the coalition.

1388
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 11: So that means that even though they have disagreements, but

1389
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 11: they are still trying to work together and help each other.

1390
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 11: I have talked to some people in the Kurdish parties.

1391
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 11: They are fully prepared for anything that could happen in

1392
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 11: the upcoming weeks or days or even months. I don't know,

1393
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 11: they're fully prepared. And what I know is that they

1394
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 11: are telling me that they are prepared that the Israeli

1395
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 11: army and also the American army would bomb or destroy

1396
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 11: the military bases on the border and also the checkpoints

1397
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:56,599
Speaker 11: so that it would be easier for them to enter.

1398
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 11: And probably if it's going to be bigger than that,

1399
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 11: then maybe they could take over the controls of the cities.

1400
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 11: And what's really interesting is that they yesterday, these five parties,

1401
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 11: the coalition, published a statement and there were several points,

1402
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:15,799
Speaker 11: but one of the points was that was really interesting

1403
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 11: for me was that they were calling on people to

1404
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 11: not damage any public buildings like banks, goals, I don't know, offices,

1405
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 11: and that means that probably there is a movement that

1406
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 11: they want to come back and take over all these

1407
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 11: buildings and try to control the cities better. So this

1408
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 11: is also something and there is a lot of discussion

1409
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 11: on social media and people are all saying that, yeah,

1410
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 11: we are ready that if something happens, we will go in.

1411
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 11: And I think right now the situation is really complicated

1412
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 11: and like we don't know how people can actually enter yet.

1413
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 11: And you said that, yeah, if there is going to

1414
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 11: be a force that's ready to sacrifice of its members,

1415
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 11: I think there are. The Kurts are ready to fight.

1416
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 11: They have been ready to fight for forever, for decades.

1417
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1418
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:13,679
Speaker 11: So this is also like something that the Courtish people

1419
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 11: already know that if we want to get rid of

1420
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 11: this regime, we have to sacrifice more. For me, it's

1421
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 11: very painful to say this, but I think our people

1422
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 11: have to sacrifice a little bit more more than that.

1423
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 11: They have been sacrificing for over one hundred fifty years,

1424
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 11: and I think maybe they have to sacrifice more. But

1425
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:37,799
Speaker 11: one point here is that when I see what's happening,

1426
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,839
Speaker 11: when I see that what is being said, that Trump

1427
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 11: is talking to the Kurdish parties, to the Kurdish organizations

1428
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 11: about the situation, one thing that I think about is

1429
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 11: that given the history of at least fifteen sixteen years

1430
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 11: of cooperation between America and the Kurts in Rajava, in

1431
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 11: in Syria and the fight again isis which was which

1432
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 11: was a great opportunity for Kurdish people, but at the

1433
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 11: end Trump just let Kurts down and and didn't really

1434
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,920
Speaker 11: support them against Turkey, against all these Jadist groups that

1435
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 11: are supporting Syria. So the question is that what if

1436
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 11: we fight against this regime, we we destroy the regime.

1437
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 11: I mean, it's not just us. I have to mention

1438
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 11: that the other ethnic groups are also ready. But what

1439
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 11: if all these ethnic groups fight this regime, they destroy

1440
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 11: this regime? And what if Trump just brings someone really

1441
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 11: bad and some someone really useless, like Rizopalavi or other

1442
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 11: Iranian figures that of course are not after Kurdish people's interests.

1443
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:51,680
Speaker 11: What if somebody likes that comes in power and then

1444
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 11: the same situation goes on and then we have to

1445
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 11: fight that system over and over again. So this is

1446
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 11: also something that I that I also think about it.

1447
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 11: But we still don't know what will happen is America's

1448
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 11: exact plan. It could be something like Iraqi Curtistan, which

1449
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 11: could benefit the ethnic groups a lot. Of course, there's

1450
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,560
Speaker 11: still gonna be civil war, probably there's gonna be instability,

1451
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 11: but at least the ethnic groups might be able to

1452
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 11: self determine, you know, like might be able to control

1453
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 11: their areas and get rid of that Iranian control to

1454
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 11: some extent, maybe not fully, but that is also something

1455
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 11: that could be possible. And of course there's going to

1456
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 11: be killing. There's going to be a lot of civilians killed,

1457
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 11: and we know that already during all these bombings, many

1458
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 11: civilians are killed. We don't know how many exactly because

1459
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 11: there is no internet connection to make sure about the

1460
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 11: numbers or to investigate that. But of course all these

1461
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 11: Iranian government buildings are orgc bases, intelligence offices, or facilities

1462
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:07,759
Speaker 11: that are all located in civilian areas, in in the cities,

1463
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 11: in the city centers all over Iran and also Curtistan.

1464
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 11: So there's always going to be some civilians who are

1465
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 11: living there, who are walking around there and they get killed.

1466
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 11: So this is also something that's that's really painful. But

1467
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:27,080
Speaker 11: I think our people really had have had enough and

1468
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 11: they were ready for this, and they were they knew

1469
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 11: that this is this was this was going to happen,

1470
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 11: and yeah.

1471
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, it's it's such a difficult thing. It's like

1472
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 10: it's what four or five weeks ago that we saw

1473
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 10: the STG and groups affiliatory and transitional government and groups

1474
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:50,360
Speaker 10: affiliated with it, like live streaming them killing and mutilating

1475
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 10: the remains of captured Kurdish at men and women in Derrisol, right,

1476
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 10: like a place where maybe it wasn't a desire to

1477
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 10: liberate Kurdish people that took the SDF there. It was

1478
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 10: the battle against Isis and this idea of brotherhood of

1479
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:06,920
Speaker 10: peoples right that they would liberate the Arab people who

1480
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 10: live there. Obviously that has resulted in these horrible things

1481
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 10: that we've seen over the last month. And then the

1482
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:16,280
Speaker 10: thought of like, oh, well on, you just sent ten

1483
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 10: thousand more of your children to die so you can

1484
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 10: liberate people in Tehran and then we'll leave you again.

1485
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 10: I was just thinking about, like a couple of years ago,

1486
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 10: I was in Solomonia and I went to the museum.

1487
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 10: You know that they have the Red Security building and

1488
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:37,440
Speaker 10: they have like a very good history of the Anfhle

1489
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 10: the genocide against Kurdish people committed by the Bathist state,

1490
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 10: and then they have the nineteen ninety one uprising, and

1491
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 10: then they have a lot of commemoration of the battle

1492
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:52,719
Speaker 10: against the Islamic State, and like for my entire life,

1493
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 10: like the Americans have been leaving Kurdish people to die

1494
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 10: and then urging them to rise up again. And it's

1495
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 10: just I know, it's an incredible like revolutionary capacity and

1496
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 10: capacity for sacrifice, but it's also just very sad that

1497
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 10: Americans constantly expect Kurdish people to continue to sacrifice and

1498
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:15,120
Speaker 10: then never for that bare end of the bargain.

1499
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's that's unfortunately true. And yeah, this has been

1500
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 11: evident in the past few years as well, like in

1501
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 11: in Syria when when when America gave the the green

1502
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 11: light to Turkey to invade Rajava, and also recently that

1503
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 11: how they just abandoned Kurts. Of course they are still saying, no,

1504
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 11: we didn't abandon curs but but but they did, and

1505
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 11: we basically lost almost everything that we had gained in

1506
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 11: in Rajova. And there is also like a threat against

1507
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 11: the Iraqi Curtism region right now from Turkey and also

1508
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 11: from Iraq. And it's it's just the bitter truth that, yeah,

1509
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,719
Speaker 11: apparently Curts are not considered as a long term partner

1510
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,759
Speaker 11: for the us R and also the other Western countries.

1511
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 11: But like all these horrible things that are that have

1512
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 11: been happening to our people in the past one hundred years.

1513
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 11: I mean a part of it is, of course the

1514
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 11: result of the Western countries and colonization from the European

1515
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:23,600
Speaker 11: countries Great Britain, Russia and also America. But at the

1516
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:27,879
Speaker 11: same time it's it's it's really important to not forget

1517
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 11: that majority of this tragedy that our people are are

1518
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 11: living in is also caused by by by Turks, Arabs

1519
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 11: and Persians. And by that I just don't mean the state.

1520
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 11: I also mean the whole structure in the Middle East

1521
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 11: that has been prosecuting the Kurts. It's it's been centuries

1522
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,839
Speaker 11: that are our people are trapped between these powers, the Turks,

1523
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,720
Speaker 11: Prisians and Arabs that are also fighting each other, but

1524
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 11: then they bring all of their wars inside our homeland

1525
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,880
Speaker 11: and then our people get killed and display and face

1526
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 11: all the tragedies. So yeah, this is also our situation

1527
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 11: right now, and I don't know if it's going to

1528
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:14,640
Speaker 11: be changed to a better situation because it's just so

1529
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 11: unclear that how the superpowers, how the major powers, the

1530
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:22,240
Speaker 11: original powers are are planning for these things, and how

1531
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 11: their interests actually matter. Like we talked about if if America,

1532
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 11: if Turkey or NATO and other Arab countries, we're not

1533
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:36,599
Speaker 11: backing the new Syrian government, I would call it Syrian

1534
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 11: Arab government because that's how they identify themselves.

1535
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, they's still the Syrian Arab Republic even a year

1536
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 10: and a bit later.

1537
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:48,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, if it was only Kertish forces and the new government,

1538
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 11: trust me, they would not be able to enter all

1539
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 11: the territories controlled by SDF because SDF is way more

1540
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 11: advanced and more powerful than them, like military wise. But

1541
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,879
Speaker 11: STF was le alone and there was so much pressure

1542
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 11: on STF from all the Arab countries, Turkey and also

1543
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:12,719
Speaker 11: Western countries and America. So this whole thing like maybe

1544
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 11: this is a little bit unrealistic, but a lot of

1545
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 11: people ask me that what's going to be next. I

1546
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 11: think the next is going to be what America and

1547
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,599
Speaker 11: Europe want. Like I'm sure that they don't care about

1548
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:29,400
Speaker 11: what the people in Kurdistan or the people in Iran want.

1549
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 11: They just want to do whatever they want, whatever that

1550
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 11: benefits them. And of course the neighboring countries will also follow.

1551
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,759
Speaker 11: From the Arab countries and definitely Turkey, they will follow

1552
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,879
Speaker 11: the plan that benefits them. So the people are trapped

1553
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:49,440
Speaker 11: between these decisions. If the Iranian structure also remains, probably

1554
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 11: they would also change course and then cooperate with America

1555
01:35:56,439 --> 01:35:59,880
Speaker 11: or Israel or NATO or Arab countries only to remain

1556
01:35:59,920 --> 01:36:03,480
Speaker 11: in power and maintain their interests.

1557
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:06,679
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a really difficult time if people are looking

1558
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,800
Speaker 10: to stay informed on this right. Coverage in the US

1559
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 10: has been poor in the English language. Where would you

1560
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 10: suggest where could people follow your work and where would

1561
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:19,599
Speaker 10: you suggest people people look to stay informed of what's happening.

1562
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, I personally don't post a lot. I'm just trying

1563
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 11: to gather information and like be updated and then share

1564
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 11: it with other media that are asking me about and

1565
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 11: other journalists. But there are several pages that I can suggest.

1566
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,080
Speaker 11: One of them is definitely our organization hang Out and

1567
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 11: the Organization for Human Rights. I would also suggest to

1568
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:45,000
Speaker 11: follow news channels like Rudolph, which they have been working

1569
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:48,759
Speaker 11: really good on this war. It's a Kurdish TV channel

1570
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 11: based in Iraqi, Kurtistan. I would also suggest to follow

1571
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 11: the social media pages belonging to the Kurdish parties like

1572
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:02,879
Speaker 11: KDPI or Omala, just like their official pages on Twitter

1573
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 11: or It's for example, they post a lot of really

1574
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:10,639
Speaker 11: good information. I would also suggest I think I also

1575
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:15,719
Speaker 11: suggested in our last talk, there is this person called

1576
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:18,599
Speaker 11: Vahit Online. He is an independent journalist and he has

1577
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:20,880
Speaker 11: like some really big platforms and he posts a lot

1578
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:24,680
Speaker 11: of reliable information and videos about the locations and the

1579
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 11: things that are happening. And I would also suggest to

1580
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:34,559
Speaker 11: follow some other journalists like Ali Jawan Mahdi. He is

1581
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 11: the manager and supervisor of the Voice of America. He

1582
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,600
Speaker 11: also like he has several platforms and they post He

1583
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 11: posts a lot of updated information about what's happening. But

1584
01:37:48,160 --> 01:37:51,160
Speaker 11: here's also something that I want to warn about. I

1585
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 11: would suggest people to not really believe in what they

1586
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 11: see on TV channels or media like Iran International, Manoto, TV,

1587
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 11: BBC version, because all these media have turned into a

1588
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:08,400
Speaker 11: platform to do the propaganda for the monarchists, and they

1589
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 11: have been posting a lot of fake news, a lot

1590
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 11: of AI generated content, and it's been really damaging the

1591
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 11: whole course of the if I want to call it

1592
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:24,000
Speaker 11: the revolution or the war or whatever like that's happening

1593
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:28,240
Speaker 11: inside Iron and Curtiston. So, yeah, these are the things

1594
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 11: that I can suggest so far.

1595
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's a great suggestion. Thank you well, thank you

1596
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 10: very much for joining us today. We'll get this out

1597
01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 10: as soon as possible because I know people very interested

1598
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:39,880
Speaker 10: to know more about it.

1599
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 11: Thanks Cordy, thanks for inviting me the next time.

1600
01:38:57,200 --> 01:39:00,679
Speaker 2: Welcome to you, Back and Hear a podcast about the

1601
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 2: consolidation of capital into increasingly centralized forms and how it's

1602
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 2: ruining your life. I am your host, Mia Long and

1603
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 2: with b today to talk about how the consolidation of

1604
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:17,559
Speaker 2: media monopolies has ruined many, many, many things for many years.

1605
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:22,560
Speaker 2: Is Vicky Osterweil, friend of the show, author of Forthcoming

1606
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:26,519
Speaker 2: April fourteenth, twenty twenty sixth, The Extended Universe, How Disney

1607
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,679
Speaker 2: killed the movies and took over the world. Vicky, Welcome

1608
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:30,160
Speaker 2: to the show.

1609
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 6: Thanks, it's so great to be back. Thank you.

1610
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 7: Miah.

1611
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 6: I'm excited to talk about something a little less depressing

1612
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 6: than the things we could be.

1613
01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 2: Talking about it. You know, like, this is a story, obviously,

1614
01:39:43,479 --> 01:39:46,800
Speaker 2: the story that we're talking about here foremost is Paramount's

1615
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:51,680
Speaker 2: acquisition of Warner Bros. Or forthcoming acquisition. Since Netflix has

1616
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 2: backed out, it technically still could fail, but seems very

1617
01:39:55,439 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 2: very unlikely to. And you know, you could tell things

1618
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:01,679
Speaker 2: are going rate in the news where this is the

1619
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 2: fun one and the fun one is us before we

1620
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,760
Speaker 2: started recording, talking about who we think the sort of

1621
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:08,800
Speaker 2: Nazi commis are they're going to put in charge of

1622
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 2: CNN is going to be. They're very wise. So things

1623
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:16,519
Speaker 2: going very good.

1624
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:21,880
Speaker 6: You can tell, Oh my god, but you you.

1625
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,720
Speaker 2: Had the most cursed name that I've heard so far.

1626
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Tim, Yeah, Tim Poole, I think is probably

1627
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 6: the most cursed. Yeah, that would be the most it's

1628
01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:32,760
Speaker 6: a dark horse candidate. I don't know whether where the

1629
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 6: numbers on poly market should we look? Who's should pull

1630
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 6: it up?

1631
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:42,800
Speaker 2: They've probably that's probably up now. Yeah, I hate I

1632
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 2: refuse to track polling market. Even if I couldn't know

1633
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:48,120
Speaker 2: facts ahead of time, I simply will not. They can't

1634
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 2: make me.

1635
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:53,360
Speaker 6: God, but we're not talking about insider trading war crimes.

1636
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 6: We're talking about insider trading intellectual property. So that's that's

1637
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 6: pretty good.

1638
01:40:56,760 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, So to start, let's go back a

1639
01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:08,559
Speaker 2: ways and do you want to talk about I guess

1640
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 2: sort of the beginning of the history of what we're

1641
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:13,040
Speaker 2: talking about here, which is the consolidation of all media

1642
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:16,480
Speaker 2: into a handful of increasingly large conglomerates.

1643
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely so in a way like consolidation is the

1644
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 6: entire history of the movie business. So obviously, what's happening

1645
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 6: here with Paramount, which is one of the oldest, one

1646
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:31,680
Speaker 6: of the old five studios merging with Warner Brothers. That

1647
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 6: leaves Disney at Paramount, Warner Brothers as Sony as the

1648
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 6: three companies that released movies.

1649
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 8: Is this good?

1650
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:46,719
Speaker 2: A twenty four is gonna get bobs? Of course three

1651
01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:48,879
Speaker 2: weeks from now, yeah, God.

1652
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 6: And that's Flix on Amazon. Are are the news of

1653
01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 6: other studios? And Netflix was in competition for this and

1654
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 6: with True as you said anyways, but like one of

1655
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:59,719
Speaker 6: the things that the very beginning of the Hollywood system,

1656
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 6: Hollywood starts because Thomas Edison. So now we're going way

1657
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:05,160
Speaker 6: back right the eighteen nineties.

1658
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:07,479
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, yeah, speaking of it, speaking a dude

1659
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 2: to ruthlessly consolidated their power.

1660
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:14,840
Speaker 6: He's like that prop precisely, dear God. So Thomas Edison

1661
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 6: is credited in the US with inventing the movie camera.

1662
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 6: He is one of five or six people in the

1663
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 6: world who came up with technology around the same time.

1664
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:24,559
Speaker 6: It's just not linearly possible to name any of them

1665
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:27,040
Speaker 6: as the inventor of the movie camera. But he gets

1666
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:30,720
Speaker 6: that credit because he sued the shit out of everyone

1667
01:42:31,200 --> 01:42:35,519
Speaker 6: who tried to make a movie for fifteen years. Jesus right, right,

1668
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:38,280
Speaker 6: So he puts patents on the movie camera, He puts

1669
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 6: patents on his stuff. And then and this is in

1670
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 6: New York. He's in New Jersey. Menlo Park famously is

1671
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 6: where his lab is. And what he starts doing other

1672
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,559
Speaker 6: than making really really boring movies, he's a mid film producer.

1673
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 6: His movies are not that exciting, and at this point

1674
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:56,479
Speaker 6: a movie is fifteen seconds to about a minute, often

1675
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:58,719
Speaker 6: seen in a nickelodeon, like in a really small screen,

1676
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:03,320
Speaker 6: or like in a small room. These are short films.

1677
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 6: Ninety nine percent of them are loss of time. Can't

1678
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 6: we can't even watch these movies, right. But one of

1679
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 6: the things that he would do is he, because he

1680
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,680
Speaker 6: had the patent on movie cameras, anyone who tried to

1681
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 6: film a movie, he would sue them, right. So it's

1682
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:20,160
Speaker 6: eventually too hard to maintain this. So what he did

1683
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 6: is he teamed up with the other large Independence and

1684
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 6: Eastman Kodak, and they formed a thing. I think it's

1685
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 6: called the Motion Picture Company, which is unreferred to as

1686
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 6: the Trust, quote unquote, and the Trust just did this

1687
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:34,760
Speaker 6: at scale. So now instead of it just being him

1688
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:38,480
Speaker 6: fighting against his competitors, it's all the leading movie filmmakers,

1689
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 6: all the leading filmmakers, and the literal film company will

1690
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 6: come down sue you sometimes even beat you up and

1691
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 6: like and shatter your cameras if you if you try

1692
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:51,160
Speaker 6: to make a movie without their permission, without a license

1693
01:43:51,160 --> 01:43:52,479
Speaker 6: from them, and without their equipment.

1694
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 2: Right, this is such a good system, by the way,

1695
01:43:55,120 --> 01:43:57,639
Speaker 2: Like I just like like the system of property rights,

1696
01:43:57,800 --> 01:43:59,360
Speaker 2: so good, no problems.

1697
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:01,639
Speaker 6: He that exactly.

1698
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:02,840
Speaker 2: So what happened?

1699
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:08,000
Speaker 6: So what happens? A bunch of filmmakers move to this

1700
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 6: new land development out in California called Hollywood. You know,

1701
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 6: it's nineteen oh seven. They're really far away from New

1702
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:19,679
Speaker 6: Jersey lawyers at Edison goons, Right, they're as far as possible.

1703
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 6: So Hollywood is founded by a bunch of movie pirates, basically, right.

1704
01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:24,560
Speaker 2: That's incredible.

1705
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:28,040
Speaker 6: We're violating, you know, Edison's copyright because they're sick of

1706
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:29,759
Speaker 6: the of his of his legal harassment.

1707
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:31,799
Speaker 2: So it's some real mountains are high in the Emperor's

1708
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:32,840
Speaker 2: far away shift.

1709
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:35,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly literally, how far can we

1710
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:38,120
Speaker 6: get away while still being on the continent, Like that's

1711
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 6: you know, let's do it from New Jersey, which, like

1712
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 6: many such cases, many people yeah, yeah, I can get

1713
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:45,640
Speaker 6: that far away from New Jersey before. But you know,

1714
01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:48,760
Speaker 6: so jumping forward into the classical Hollywood period are more

1715
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:51,559
Speaker 6: familiar with, there are sort of five major studioos and

1716
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:53,600
Speaker 6: one of the ways that the major studios worked is

1717
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 6: that they had something called vertical integration, which is something

1718
01:44:57,760 --> 01:44:59,519
Speaker 6: we should all know about as we are living through

1719
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:02,799
Speaker 6: times monopolies. Amazon is a classic example of vertical integration,

1720
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:05,800
Speaker 6: as is Google. What vertical integration means is that you

1721
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:10,040
Speaker 6: own everything in the pipeline for movies. You have the

1722
01:45:10,080 --> 01:45:12,839
Speaker 6: offices where the producers work, You own the sound stage,

1723
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:15,080
Speaker 6: you employ all the people who work on it, You

1724
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 6: employee the actors. You also then own the film that

1725
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 6: gets made. You own the cameras, You own the company

1726
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,040
Speaker 6: that produces the film. Sometimes although tho's a instances, they

1727
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,240
Speaker 6: didn't always own those companies, those chemical companies. It's an

1728
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 6: on board, but you know, and then you own the

1729
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 6: movie theater where it showed, right, So like movie theaters

1730
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 6: before the forties, you would go to a RKO Pictures House.

1731
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:35,720
Speaker 6: Arko is one of the early big ones, or a

1732
01:45:35,800 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 6: United Artists theater, and they would only show United Artists movies, right,

1733
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 6: So they would be an active competition with one another.

1734
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:45,120
Speaker 6: So your neighborhood would have you know, there'd be an MGM,

1735
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 6: there'd be an RKO, and you would go based on

1736
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:50,840
Speaker 6: what movie was where. Then there's anti trust action done

1737
01:45:50,840 --> 01:45:53,879
Speaker 6: in the forties that breaks up these studios. The studio

1738
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 6: system sort of slowly collapses. They also then loses a

1739
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:58,679
Speaker 6: lot of market share to television. This is a really

1740
01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:00,880
Speaker 6: pod ended history, but trying to do it as much

1741
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 6: as possible. So basically, so by the sixties or seventies,

1742
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:07,800
Speaker 6: what you have is a lot of independent producers. So

1743
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 6: the studios just become a brand and a sort of

1744
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:13,720
Speaker 6: pot of money and often a sound stage. They keep

1745
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 6: the sound stages right. But then like distribution, becomes independent

1746
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 6: actors and like directors, they all are independent. They all

1747
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 6: have agents, right. It used to be that they would

1748
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 6: be hired by a company and they would just work

1749
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:28,880
Speaker 6: for that company. That's why you know classical Hollywood directors

1750
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:30,639
Speaker 6: would make like sixty movies because they would just churn

1751
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:32,720
Speaker 6: them out. They would just be like directing them show up,

1752
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:34,040
Speaker 6: do it for two weeks, show up on the next one,

1753
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 6: do for two weeks, et cetera. Just the studio system.

1754
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 6: So then by the sixties and seventies, it's starting to

1755
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 6: look more like what you have now, which is the

1756
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:46,839
Speaker 6: studios are basically they're the homes of all the producers,

1757
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 6: the producers of people who connect the money and the talent,

1758
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:51,439
Speaker 6: you know, and put it all together and package and

1759
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:56,200
Speaker 6: deal the market it right, and that process. It seems

1760
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 6: like it's sort of a losing proposition. The business isn't

1761
01:46:58,360 --> 01:47:01,080
Speaker 6: doing super well until the emergence of the blockbuster with

1762
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,400
Speaker 6: Star Wars, right so, Star Wars and Jaws and a

1763
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 6: bunch of other movies in the seventies. We're going so

1764
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:08,120
Speaker 6: fast right now and trying my best, but I'm sorry,

1765
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:08,439
Speaker 6: this is.

1766
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:12,240
Speaker 2: No this is like I was like, here, let's talk

1767
01:47:12,240 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 2: about like one hundred and fifty years of history.

1768
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:20,640
Speaker 6: So anyways, with the emergence of the blockbusters, one of

1769
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:23,440
Speaker 6: the other things that happens is that the way blockbusters

1770
01:47:23,439 --> 01:47:25,679
Speaker 6: work is that they are released everywhere in the country

1771
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 6: at once. Film comes on used to come on literal

1772
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 6: physical objects, and you can only have so many and

1773
01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:33,800
Speaker 6: they can only be so many places at once. Right.

1774
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 6: So the way film used to work is they would

1775
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 6: make a certain number of film reels if they thought

1776
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:40,360
Speaker 6: it was going to be big. There was a star,

1777
01:47:40,680 --> 01:47:43,320
Speaker 6: but the studio was always gambling on how many how

1778
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:45,240
Speaker 6: big it would be, how many people would pick it up,

1779
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 6: and then they had to sell it to the movie theaters, right,

1780
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:49,559
Speaker 6: and then the films would circulate when they did well,

1781
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:52,040
Speaker 6: they're print more. So movies would circulate for like a year, right,

1782
01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 6: two years sometimes even. But with Star Wars and the

1783
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:57,559
Speaker 6: day and date system that we have now, what they

1784
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 6: started doing was just putting it in every movie theater

1785
01:48:01,240 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 6: in the country. You also get the emergence of multiplexes,

1786
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,599
Speaker 6: white flight in the suburbs. I'm really going faster up trying.

1787
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:12,559
Speaker 6: But the result is that movies get both more potentially valuable,

1788
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:15,559
Speaker 6: but that value gets more and more concentrated in the

1789
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 6: early period of the of the release right in the

1790
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:22,599
Speaker 6: early window. Opening weekend was not very meaningful until the eighties. Really,

1791
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:26,600
Speaker 6: you know, late seventies, early eighties. As that happens, do

1792
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:29,320
Speaker 6: you suddenly need more financing and you can make more

1793
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:33,360
Speaker 6: money off of bigger gambles. Simultaneously, the rest of the

1794
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 6: economy is going through financialization, right, which is a process

1795
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 6: that you've talked about on the show before.

1796
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:39,639
Speaker 2: I can't get into that, but yeah we can't.

1797
01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:44,560
Speaker 6: And then Reagan deregulates everything, right, Reagan rifts apart of

1798
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:48,680
Speaker 6: the SCC in many ways, deregulates media ownership stuff. This

1799
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,880
Speaker 6: is a big move. Then across the eighties, the home

1800
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:55,400
Speaker 6: market opens, so you start getting VCRs and this completely

1801
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 6: transforms the business another time, because movies can flop in

1802
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 6: the theater, but you can guarantee rentals, right, So for

1803
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:06,240
Speaker 6: like the eighties and the nineties, the big studios kind

1804
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 6: of could print money because it was pretty hard to

1805
01:49:09,479 --> 01:49:11,760
Speaker 6: lose money on a movie. Now the people who lost

1806
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 6: money on movies were like, you know, dentists from the

1807
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 6: Midwest who THEYD get to invest them. They'd be like,

1808
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 6: oh yeah, sorry, Like Threo's arcane deals. People still got rinsed.

1809
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:22,120
Speaker 6: Obviously it was Hollywood. It was shady as well, but

1810
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:24,599
Speaker 6: as so with the deregulation and with all this money

1811
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:28,240
Speaker 6: flowing and with the integration of the home market, suddenly

1812
01:49:28,479 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 6: technology companies like Sony, and the emergence of of like

1813
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:35,800
Speaker 6: Lucasfilms that they also get really into computers. Lucas Turgocus

1814
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:38,360
Speaker 6: famously is into the computer side of the business. All

1815
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 6: these different technologies get brought into the cinema at the

1816
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 6: same time as he gets see regulated. So companies starts

1817
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 6: snatching up these other film studios, right and so where

1818
01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 6: once there were five studios, and then the sixties and

1819
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:52,880
Speaker 6: seventies were actually got a ton of independent studios, a

1820
01:49:52,920 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 6: lot of really small ones, and they started getting gobbled

1821
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:58,920
Speaker 6: up by these bigger conglomerates. You know, Sony is the

1822
01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 6: one that was also a mega corp in the eighties

1823
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:03,680
Speaker 6: already that that would eventually go on to own to

1824
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 6: buy out a bunch of movie companies. The same thing

1825
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 6: is happening though with radio. With TV. The main thing

1826
01:50:10,280 --> 01:50:13,439
Speaker 6: that happens under the SEC regulation stuff is that they

1827
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 6: loosen up whether a movie studio can own a TV studio.

1828
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:19,719
Speaker 6: They used to be fully separate, and then and and

1829
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 6: broadcast rule changed. Broadcast rules changed, so studios could own

1830
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:25,639
Speaker 6: a movie theater or you could own a movie company,

1831
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:27,679
Speaker 6: a radio station and a TV station.

1832
01:50:28,200 --> 01:50:29,559
Speaker 2: Ah O, good God.

1833
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:33,400
Speaker 6: And as you can imagine that is how things started

1834
01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 6: to alerate. You get like the ABC Disney merger and

1835
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 6: the late eighties NBC universal mergers acqusitions become the big thing.

1836
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 6: You know, the stock market is booming. Then you get

1837
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:45,600
Speaker 6: other big corps buying them out, and then we're just

1838
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:48,799
Speaker 6: in the classic phase of consolidation where bigger and bigger

1839
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:50,559
Speaker 6: fish eat up the smaller ones.

1840
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,120
Speaker 2: And this is not how I guess importantly for this story. Suddenly,

1841
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 2: like all of the television news media is owned by

1842
01:50:57,280 --> 01:51:02,760
Speaker 2: these giant ass movie companies. Exactly, surely nothing will go wrong.

1843
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:04,559
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, we and we come to you here from

1844
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,439
Speaker 6: iHeart Radio, which you know is a lovely new.

1845
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:11,840
Speaker 2: Brand of kind of things making. We are iHeart Media. Okay,

1846
01:51:11,880 --> 01:51:16,240
Speaker 2: excuse me, a technically distinct company, I think. Actually, don't

1847
01:51:16,240 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 2: ask me to explain exactly how that whole right I

1848
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:20,559
Speaker 2: heard media I Heart Radio split works.

1849
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 6: But exactly, you know, so media consolidation, this is you know,

1850
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 6: consolidation is the story of capitalism, famously right like that,

1851
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:32,719
Speaker 6: Like you know, an industry builds lots of new entrepreneurs

1852
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:34,720
Speaker 6: coming into the space. People figure out what's possible with

1853
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:37,479
Speaker 6: the industry has more and more money flows in, a

1854
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:39,640
Speaker 6: few winners come and consolidated. We've seen it happen in

1855
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:43,000
Speaker 6: tech as well. But yeah, it has particularly perverse effects

1856
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 6: when we're talking about the visual culture, the audio culture,

1857
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,360
Speaker 6: and the news media the way information is spread. Although

1858
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:52,479
Speaker 6: I wouldn't you know, I would argue that the effects

1859
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,160
Speaker 6: are still pretty perverse from the way social media and

1860
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 6: tech giants have control things. I think that's pretty pretty obvious.

1861
01:51:58,840 --> 01:52:02,679
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, is extremely bad, I would say.

1862
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 6: You might say it's extremely bad. You know, a lot

1863
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:19,120
Speaker 6: of people are very upset about the news that David Ellison,

1864
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:22,599
Speaker 6: who is the NEPO baby to end all netpo babies,

1865
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:25,559
Speaker 6: because he's not a Hollywood netbo baby. He's not the

1866
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 6: son of a previous He's just the son of a

1867
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 6: rich guy who wanted to be in movies. So he

1868
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 6: bought his way into like acting roles, and then he

1869
01:52:33,479 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 6: like just threw money around until he got sky Danced Global,

1870
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 6: which is this company that you know, he's been in

1871
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:42,559
Speaker 6: Hollywood for ten years. Technically he's like an experienced producer.

1872
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:44,240
Speaker 6: This man is forty three years old, which for like,

1873
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:47,320
Speaker 6: you know, the CEO of a billion you know, he

1874
01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:50,120
Speaker 6: started with a generous loan from Daddy Larry. Let's just

1875
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:53,680
Speaker 6: say and yeah, you know, I think people are very

1876
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:56,400
Speaker 6: upset obviously because he's a Trump ally, right the Allisons

1877
01:52:56,439 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 6: or Trump allies. He has literally said, I'm gonna make

1878
01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:02,680
Speaker 6: more right wing movies, you know, like you know, the

1879
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:05,559
Speaker 6: Daily Daily Wire. You know, they were all washing out,

1880
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:07,320
Speaker 6: but now they'll probably have contracts or whatever. You know,

1881
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 6: who knows. Like it's going to be money. But a

1882
01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:11,280
Speaker 6: lot of people are also saying that this is just

1883
01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:14,800
Speaker 6: for CNN, and that's actually not true. So a thing

1884
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:16,880
Speaker 6: that is important to know is that the cable part

1885
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:19,799
Speaker 6: of this deal Netflix was going to spin off the cable.

1886
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 6: The Discovery channel at CNN was going to spin off

1887
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:25,360
Speaker 6: all the cable. So if he just wanted CNN and

1888
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 6: he could have waited for the Netflix deal to go through,

1889
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 6: and he could have just bought it on the market

1890
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 6: for a steal. Because the thing about cable is it's

1891
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:35,040
Speaker 6: losing money. If you look at Okay, this isn't really

1892
01:53:35,120 --> 01:53:37,040
Speaker 6: dark fact, and I apologies everyone, but if you look

1893
01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 6: at the rate of cable subscription costs, if you look

1894
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:44,559
Speaker 6: at a meta aggregate data of it, the price of

1895
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 6: the annual subscription to cable goes up by the distributed

1896
01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:54,600
Speaker 6: amount of the previous year's subscription costs that were lost.

1897
01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:56,160
Speaker 2: By boomers dying Jesus Christ.

1898
01:53:56,200 --> 01:53:58,960
Speaker 6: So basically it is a literally dying It is a

1899
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 6: literally dying market. The only people who still pay for

1900
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:06,160
Speaker 6: cable other than institutional forces are like people above sixty,

1901
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:09,000
Speaker 6: and they're just literally dying, and the price goes up

1902
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:10,040
Speaker 6: as more and more of them dying.

1903
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:10,519
Speaker 5: It is.

1904
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 6: It is over as a business. Cable even ESPN, Disney

1905
01:54:14,360 --> 01:54:16,800
Speaker 6: is trying to get rid of ESPN. Even sports are

1906
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 6: valueless now not valueless, I mean, it's still billions of

1907
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:21,000
Speaker 6: dollars obviously, but these.

1908
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:24,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, if you look at what ESPN's

1909
01:54:24,120 --> 01:54:25,880
Speaker 2: like trying to do about this, they're like just turning

1910
01:54:25,880 --> 01:54:29,240
Speaker 2: into an influencer factory, yeah, with just like rich eyes

1911
01:54:29,320 --> 01:54:33,880
Speaker 2: and then like all these fucking unhinged dipshits exactly.

1912
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:37,400
Speaker 6: So anyway, so people are pretty like despairing about it

1913
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 6: because I think it's about CNN. But if it was

1914
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 6: just about CNN, like I said, they could have just

1915
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:44,040
Speaker 6: waited and gotten it for a song. David Ellison really

1916
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 6: thinks he's a he's cosplaying as a movie producer but

1917
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:49,440
Speaker 6: because he has so much money, he's succeeding. Yeah, of

1918
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 6: the movies he's produced that you might like, although I

1919
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:53,320
Speaker 6: didn't like it, but a lot of people like Top

1920
01:54:53,320 --> 01:54:55,800
Speaker 6: Gun Maverick like it's fun. I guess like fun.

1921
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 2: Everything about that movie suddenly just like clicks into focus.

1922
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:00,160
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, oh oh.

1923
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:02,800
Speaker 6: I just want you to know that Tapka Maverick is

1924
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 6: the greatest work of art that he produced by some

1925
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:10,160
Speaker 6: extreme margin. This guy's responsible for Terminators five and six

1926
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 6: that would be a dark fight and Genesis.

1927
01:55:12,640 --> 01:55:13,280
Speaker 2: Oh no.

1928
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:16,960
Speaker 6: He produced on Geostorm, which you may remember came too

1929
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 6: late to capitalize on the disaster thing. In twenty seventeen,

1930
01:55:21,360 --> 01:55:23,440
Speaker 6: he made the Gemini Man movie, which is what Will

1931
01:55:23,480 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 6: Smith fought Will Smith with weird yet aging technology.

1932
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:29,240
Speaker 2: Oh. I basically remember seeing TV correction.

1933
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:34,560
Speaker 6: It kind of killed Will Smith's marketability as a star.

1934
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:38,400
Speaker 6: Like that was kind of the film like after Earth Chaalan,

1935
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:41,440
Speaker 6: But he's responsible for ending Will Smith. He did this

1936
01:55:42,200 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 6: the Spy Kids reboot which I kids Armageddon from twenty twelve.

1937
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:49,440
Speaker 2: No, this guy Jesus.

1938
01:55:49,040 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 6: Has made just really bad movies.

1939
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 2: All of these weird right wing people are all like

1940
01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:56,320
Speaker 2: the thing they want to do is make movies. This

1941
01:55:56,360 --> 01:55:59,080
Speaker 2: is like, what's like killing the Daily Wire?

1942
01:55:59,200 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 7: Is it?

1943
01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:01,920
Speaker 2: They decided to be a movie company and it turns

1944
01:56:01,960 --> 01:56:03,680
Speaker 2: out they can't make movies. But it's like this guy

1945
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:06,640
Speaker 2: is like, what if you had that but backed by

1946
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:09,760
Speaker 2: like the entire tech capital apparatus and your dad was

1947
01:56:10,120 --> 01:56:12,600
Speaker 2: fucking Larry Ellison, the Oracle guy, like one of the

1948
01:56:12,680 --> 01:56:14,280
Speaker 2: richest test fascists who's ever lived.

1949
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:15,760
Speaker 6: Then you can do it. Then you can just buy

1950
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:17,680
Speaker 6: yourself a movie studio, and you can do it because

1951
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:19,280
Speaker 6: the thing movies need is money.

1952
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,960
Speaker 2: And then you can keep buying all their movie studios.

1953
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 6: But and this is a bit contrarian. I'm not sure

1954
01:56:29,320 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 6: that this is worse for movies than Netflix getting it,

1955
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:39,440
Speaker 6: because Netflix would have likely sabotaged what was remaining of

1956
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:45,160
Speaker 6: WB's theatrical business model, right, Like Netflix doesn't like the theater.

1957
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:48,200
Speaker 6: Now they've been trying to get into theatrical because that's like,

1958
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:50,080
Speaker 6: you know, it's cash on the table, you know, it's

1959
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:52,560
Speaker 6: how you build. It's the greatest marketing on Earth, right,

1960
01:56:52,600 --> 01:56:54,320
Speaker 6: And you when you have a big hit film, then

1961
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:57,600
Speaker 6: that's a franchise. You get TV shows, you get theme parks,

1962
01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:02,880
Speaker 6: you get you know, lunchboxes, toys, t shirts, you get resales,

1963
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 6: you get a reboot ten years down the line, right,

1964
01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:09,000
Speaker 6: you get licensing, so they want that. But but Netflix

1965
01:57:09,080 --> 01:57:12,840
Speaker 6: is really I mean, they hate movies. Netflix literally has

1966
01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:17,080
Speaker 6: a production design, a design philosophy of making movies that

1967
01:57:17,160 --> 01:57:19,560
Speaker 6: are designed for people who aren't looking at them, so

1968
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 6: that the characters say what they're doing. I mean, there's

1969
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 6: a big article that came out about this a few

1970
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:26,720
Speaker 6: weeks ago, like, yeah, Netflix is a nightmare company. So

1971
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 6: it's a real it's a real Cilly and carib this

1972
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:32,520
Speaker 6: kind of situation. Yeah, right, Like you've got this fascist creep.

1973
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 6: But at least he like really thinks he likes movies,

1974
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:37,400
Speaker 6: you know, Like I don't know anyway, the play being.

1975
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:39,560
Speaker 6: People are very upset about this news because it's happened

1976
01:57:39,560 --> 01:57:41,440
Speaker 6: to you because he's a Trump ally, there's this political

1977
01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:43,760
Speaker 6: angle they were making all this noise, they were begging

1978
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:46,680
Speaker 6: Trump to do it. Y'all are thirty years late to

1979
01:57:46,720 --> 01:57:48,640
Speaker 6: this being a problem. Like I'm not trying to be like,

1980
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:50,200
Speaker 6: I'm not trying to be like that whatever.

1981
01:57:50,080 --> 01:57:52,720
Speaker 2: Like Noah, like, but like.

1982
01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:57,120
Speaker 6: We are well, but like having three movie studios instead

1983
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:01,000
Speaker 6: of two, like you're already doing pretty bad. Like in

1984
01:58:01,080 --> 01:58:03,240
Speaker 6: the thirties, as I gave you in that little pot

1985
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:07,320
Speaker 6: of history, in the thirties, Hollywood was so brutally integrated

1986
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 6: that they literally, the federal government literally broke it apart

1987
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:14,960
Speaker 6: at the height. At the height of the studio system.

1988
01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 6: The biggest company at the time, which I believe with

1989
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:20,520
Speaker 6: MGM was the big studio, controlled eighteen percent of the

1990
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:22,720
Speaker 6: market of the film market, which is massive. I mean

1991
01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:27,880
Speaker 6: the market of anything. Eighteen percent the market is obscene hideous. Yeah,

1992
01:58:28,160 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 6: Disney in a bunch of the past years has run

1993
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:36,200
Speaker 6: forty percent of the market world wide, world wide, not messic,

1994
01:58:37,240 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 6: So like we are already at this level of concentration,

1995
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:43,280
Speaker 6: like the fact that it keeps going, Like, yes, it

1996
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:45,440
Speaker 6: does mean there will be fewer and fewer movies. It

1997
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:48,320
Speaker 6: does mean more layoffs. It means things are getting worse.

1998
01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:52,640
Speaker 6: But you know, we've been here. You know what I'm saying.

1999
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:55,320
Speaker 6: I think thirty seven. I think it's actually only thirty

2000
01:58:55,320 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 6: seven percent.

2001
01:58:55,880 --> 01:58:59,000
Speaker 2: Of thirty seven Oh wow, wow, yeah, three percent.

2002
01:58:59,080 --> 01:59:01,120
Speaker 6: Sorry, round up, I'm sorry about that.

2003
01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:01,600
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2004
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, And this is something I think gets back

2005
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:08,760
Speaker 2: to one of the sort of political answers that I've

2006
01:59:08,760 --> 01:59:11,440
Speaker 2: been seeing to this is like, you know, this return

2007
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 2: from kind of like the left of the Democratic Party

2008
01:59:14,800 --> 01:59:17,760
Speaker 2: to being like, oh, we should talk about like anti

2009
01:59:17,800 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 2: monopoly and we should do like trust busting again. And

2010
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:23,960
Speaker 2: it's like probably, yeah, but we did this right, Like,

2011
01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:26,600
Speaker 2: we did this, we got rid of the monopolies, and

2012
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:30,280
Speaker 2: then they came back, and it's like this is you know,

2013
01:59:30,400 --> 01:59:31,960
Speaker 2: this is this is the problem is that this is

2014
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:34,720
Speaker 2: this is basically a structural problem of capital is this

2015
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:38,000
Speaker 2: kind of resolidation and you can break up the monopolies,

2016
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:40,880
Speaker 2: but they'll just reform. It requires you to win the

2017
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 2: battle forever. And all the monopolies have to do is

2018
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:46,800
Speaker 2: get like one fascist elected or get like like all

2019
01:59:46,840 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 2: they need is one Ronald Reagan and you just lose everything. Yeah,

2020
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:52,480
Speaker 2: And it's like okay, like this this is a problem

2021
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:55,040
Speaker 2: that can't be solved just by tinkering on the edges

2022
01:59:55,080 --> 01:59:58,720
Speaker 2: of the system. You have to actually destroy the conditions

2023
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:02,080
Speaker 2: that make it possible. And those are regulatory conditions. Those

2024
02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:05,880
Speaker 2: are hold on why are people allowed to own this shit?

2025
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:10,520
Speaker 6: Yeah? And I think that's exactly right. And I think

2026
02:00:10,840 --> 02:00:13,640
Speaker 6: you know, one of the things about monopoli the station,

2027
02:00:13,720 --> 02:00:16,919
Speaker 6: which is famous. One of the things that even capitalists

2028
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:20,600
Speaker 6: don't like about monopolies is that the quality goes down famous, yeah, right,

2029
02:00:20,640 --> 02:00:22,120
Speaker 6: because you don't you don't know, you don't have to

2030
02:00:22,120 --> 02:00:25,800
Speaker 6: compete whatever, there's literally no reason to try and make

2031
02:00:25,840 --> 02:00:28,600
Speaker 6: the product good. But like one of the things about

2032
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:30,440
Speaker 6: the concentration of IP, and like one of the things

2033
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 6: that's like sort of scary about it's consolidation in general.

2034
02:00:33,880 --> 02:00:35,800
Speaker 6: And this is a fact that's really important to understand.

2035
02:00:36,480 --> 02:00:40,360
Speaker 6: When you own a bucket of intellectual property. Let's say

2036
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:43,280
Speaker 6: you own Sesame Street, right, which is one that's not owned.

2037
02:00:43,320 --> 02:00:45,040
Speaker 6: So it's a good example to use because it's weird

2038
02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 6: when you own sesame Street, and if you start to

2039
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,560
Speaker 6: make products of Sesame Street, it means that every idea

2040
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 6: that isn't Sesame Street but threatens to become more popular

2041
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 6: than Sesame Street is a threat. So it is if

2042
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:00,720
Speaker 6: you own, if you own enough IP, is in your

2043
02:01:00,840 --> 02:01:05,320
Speaker 6: logical material interest to stop new ideas from being made,

2044
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:09,920
Speaker 6: because every new idea is competition. If you own the

2045
02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:12,680
Speaker 6: back catalog of Bob Dylan, for as like some of

2046
02:01:12,720 --> 02:01:14,440
Speaker 6: these investment firms, do you I think he's I think

2047
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:17,600
Speaker 6: he has sold to Hypnosis or one of these big

2048
02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 6: There are these big music investment firms that own the

2049
02:01:21,160 --> 02:01:23,640
Speaker 6: rights to all of these old songs. If you guys,

2050
02:01:23,680 --> 02:01:28,240
Speaker 6: If y'all remember, in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, all movie

2051
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 6: trailers suddenly started having weird sad girl covers of like

2052
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:35,080
Speaker 6: sixties and seventies pop songs. Do you remember this era?

2053
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:37,960
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, the sad guitargra and I was just

2054
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:40,760
Speaker 6: like what happened in like Hollywood? Was there like some

2055
02:01:40,840 --> 02:01:44,240
Speaker 6: weird trend. No, what happened was these investment firms got

2056
02:01:44,240 --> 02:01:46,400
Speaker 6: hold of it, and if they can release a new

2057
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:52,040
Speaker 6: cover version of a song, they hit the property rights twice,

2058
02:01:52,280 --> 02:01:53,560
Speaker 6: so they get it on the new they get it

2059
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:55,280
Speaker 6: on the new play, and then people go back to

2060
02:01:55,320 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 6: the old ones they're reminded of it.

2061
02:01:56,960 --> 02:01:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's worse too, because the new ones are all.

2062
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:06,040
Speaker 6: God and And this is only possible because of the

2063
02:02:06,040 --> 02:02:09,360
Speaker 6: way that the streaming services got consolidated and that they

2064
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 6: pay per play. Because pay per play, as everyone knows,

2065
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:16,200
Speaker 6: completely screws artists. There's just no way to make any

2066
02:02:16,240 --> 02:02:20,280
Speaker 6: money off that. But if you own a massive library

2067
02:02:20,360 --> 02:02:23,520
Speaker 6: like the UM, like the BMG or sony universal. If

2068
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:25,720
Speaker 6: you own a library like that, you do nothing and

2069
02:02:25,760 --> 02:02:28,760
Speaker 6: you make billions a year, right, so it becomes this permanent,

2070
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:31,720
Speaker 6: perfect rent that you never have to worry about. So

2071
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:33,720
Speaker 6: all you have to do is buy enough musical IP

2072
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:36,040
Speaker 6: and then try and get new artists who are hot

2073
02:02:36,080 --> 02:02:39,320
Speaker 6: to cover your old ip. So this is like this

2074
02:02:39,800 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 6: really weird esoteric seeming. You know, it's bailed on the

2075
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:47,560
Speaker 6: division between particular recording copyrights and the copyrights of like

2076
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:50,600
Speaker 6: individual of the songwriting. It's like built on this sort

2077
02:02:50,600 --> 02:02:53,880
Speaker 6: of weird esoteric structure of intellectual property law, which like

2078
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:56,200
Speaker 6: when you start talking about it, people's eyes literally roll

2079
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:58,360
Speaker 6: in the back of their head, right, like they like

2080
02:02:58,480 --> 02:03:01,280
Speaker 6: fall over in a daisy pops up the cartoon. They're

2081
02:03:01,320 --> 02:03:04,560
Speaker 6: just dead. That's not interesting. But like because of that,

2082
02:03:05,080 --> 02:03:07,640
Speaker 6: for five years, when you went to the grocery store,

2083
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,760
Speaker 6: you would be in a weird, uncanny valley where you

2084
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:13,200
Speaker 6: were hearing a song that you thought you recognized but

2085
02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 6: was like slightly different.

2086
02:03:14,520 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2087
02:03:14,800 --> 02:03:18,680
Speaker 6: Right, So the entire material structure of the world, like

2088
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:21,600
Speaker 6: the psychic structure of the world, gets transformed by these

2089
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:25,640
Speaker 6: weird exploits over like financial loopholes by the worst people

2090
02:03:25,680 --> 02:03:28,920
Speaker 6: on earth whose goal is to never let you hear

2091
02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 6: a new song, right, Like, they'd never want you to

2092
02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:34,800
Speaker 6: hear new music again. They just want the boomer tracks

2093
02:03:34,840 --> 02:03:37,520
Speaker 6: to play forever with like new versions by you know.

2094
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 6: They just want Charlie XCX to record fucking Jefferson Airplane.

2095
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:44,440
Speaker 6: Like that's there. That's their wettest dream, you know. And

2096
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,240
Speaker 6: all that shit is going on in the backgrounde of

2097
02:03:46,280 --> 02:03:48,440
Speaker 6: your life, right like, I mean it's not it's it's

2098
02:03:48,840 --> 02:03:52,760
Speaker 6: but it's affecting the psychic atmosphere. It's producing nostalgia, it's

2099
02:03:52,760 --> 02:03:56,720
Speaker 6: producing all these affects that are rife for fascism. It

2100
02:03:56,720 --> 02:03:58,040
Speaker 6: makes people want to go back.

2101
02:03:58,400 --> 02:04:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, okay, what happened the last time we

2102
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:05,360
Speaker 2: saw like the completely unhinged like concentration of all capitals

2103
02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:09,240
Speaker 2: a monopolies, It was like, well, all that capital was

2104
02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:13,160
Speaker 2: liquidated by World War Two. There was World War One

2105
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:15,840
Speaker 2: as well, too, right, these were both to a larger stent.

2106
02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:16,920
Speaker 2: And this is something that you know, if you go

2107
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,000
Speaker 2: back and read anyone who's doing any political analysis about

2108
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:22,120
Speaker 2: World War One in the lead up to it and

2109
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:25,640
Speaker 2: as it's happening, the thing everyone is talking about is

2110
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 2: is the consolidation monopoly capital, and I think you can

2111
02:04:29,280 --> 02:04:34,320
Speaker 2: argue maybe that the early eighteen hundreds had like a

2112
02:04:34,400 --> 02:04:38,280
Speaker 2: larger consolidation, just in the sense of, like I'm questionable

2113
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:40,080
Speaker 2: as to whether this is just because it's too expensive

2114
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:43,040
Speaker 2: to literally run a country, but like we haven't quite

2115
02:04:43,080 --> 02:04:45,760
Speaker 2: returned to like the East India company has an army

2116
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:48,320
Speaker 2: and they conquer countries periodically, but like I think it's

2117
02:04:48,320 --> 02:04:50,600
Speaker 2: just because that's too expensive and you'd rather just outsource

2118
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 2: that to the state.

2119
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:55,680
Speaker 6: But it's less farther than your thing, because oh yeah,

2120
02:04:55,800 --> 02:04:57,360
Speaker 6: the part of the way that it outsourced us to

2121
02:04:57,400 --> 02:04:59,640
Speaker 6: the state. And this isn't this, this is all suffered

2122
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:02,560
Speaker 6: my upcoming book which you can pre order. Now, that's

2123
02:05:02,600 --> 02:05:05,800
Speaker 6: true the World Trade Organization. One of the things that

2124
02:05:05,840 --> 02:05:09,120
Speaker 6: it did when you joined the WTO, and this was

2125
02:05:09,160 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 6: done by lobbyists, mostly film and pharma and chemical lobbyists

2126
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:16,120
Speaker 6: from the US sense, if you join the WTO, you

2127
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:18,520
Speaker 6: have to accept you don't not only have to accept

2128
02:05:18,960 --> 02:05:22,880
Speaker 6: their copyright and piracy law, you have to agree to

2129
02:05:23,120 --> 02:05:28,040
Speaker 6: build copyright courts and copyright police in your country Jesus Christ,

2130
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:32,720
Speaker 6: so that if say Apple sees you making a fake iPhone,

2131
02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:37,120
Speaker 6: they have a liberal legal procedure domestic to your country

2132
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:42,080
Speaker 6: to force you to stop to smash those prices. Major

2133
02:05:42,120 --> 02:05:46,240
Speaker 6: corporations can get police in Vietnam to go in and

2134
02:05:46,360 --> 02:05:49,520
Speaker 6: light a warehouse on fire because it's full of faked goods,

2135
02:05:49,720 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 6: like without ever leaving the US, right, So yeah, yeah,

2136
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:56,000
Speaker 6: the company's more dintributed through these world trade organizations.

2137
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:58,960
Speaker 2: Well, they did the order liberal thing of where we're

2138
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:02,880
Speaker 2: using the super rested apparatus to negate the sovereignty of

2139
02:06:02,920 --> 02:06:05,320
Speaker 2: the state by creating the super state which we run.

2140
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 6: Yes, so I mean I'm obviously interested in the IP

2141
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:12,920
Speaker 6: and the cultural angle. This is the only law like

2142
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:15,240
Speaker 6: this in any of these agreements. All the rest of

2143
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:18,000
Speaker 6: the trade agreements, like they can negotiate. But like, part

2144
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:20,920
Speaker 6: of what's so obscene about Trump's tariffs is that the

2145
02:06:21,000 --> 02:06:23,280
Speaker 6: US already had this. It was called the Priority watch List.

2146
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:25,760
Speaker 6: They just had this list in the White House where

2147
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:27,600
Speaker 6: they could just say you're not doing a good job

2148
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:31,560
Speaker 6: enough stopping piracy. And it gives the White House unilateral

2149
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:36,080
Speaker 6: capacity to create trade embargoes on people without going to Congress.

2150
02:06:36,280 --> 02:06:39,840
Speaker 6: Like this was all the tariffs, which also hurt your

2151
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:42,120
Speaker 6: economy obviously, but even if they worked the way Trump

2152
02:06:42,240 --> 02:06:46,560
Speaker 6: imagines they do, like he already had that power and

2153
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:49,360
Speaker 6: like other presidents have been using it for decades. Big

2154
02:06:49,480 --> 02:06:52,640
Speaker 6: visible sanctions like what they put on Iran or Venezuela

2155
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:55,320
Speaker 6: are a much more dramatic upscale. But the priority watch list,

2156
02:06:55,600 --> 02:06:58,520
Speaker 6: they can just threaten to upgrade you from on the

2157
02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:01,360
Speaker 6: watch list to a priority on that and you will

2158
02:07:01,400 --> 02:07:05,600
Speaker 6: watch countries fold entirely on trade policy, Like it's crazy. So, like,

2159
02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:07,640
Speaker 6: one of the things that's interesting about this moment and

2160
02:07:07,680 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 6: about the Trump this moment is that they're ripping apart

2161
02:07:09,640 --> 02:07:12,560
Speaker 6: their own infrastructure. Yeah, because they literally just don't understand

2162
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:13,040
Speaker 6: how it works.

2163
02:07:13,080 --> 02:07:14,600
Speaker 2: No, It's like it's like that you had it to

2164
02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:16,560
Speaker 2: an aircraft carrier and they're ripping out the copper wires,

2165
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:17,760
Speaker 2: just trying to tell it and it's like, you have

2166
02:07:17,840 --> 02:07:20,200
Speaker 2: an aircraft carrier, what are we doing?

2167
02:07:20,320 --> 02:07:22,160
Speaker 6: Yeah?

2168
02:07:22,280 --> 02:07:23,440
Speaker 2: God, exactly.

2169
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,080
Speaker 6: You know. So again, like I think there is this

2170
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:29,760
Speaker 6: talk about the consolidation of culture, and I think, like

2171
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:33,440
Speaker 6: you know, people like the Ellison's are just they're just

2172
02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:36,640
Speaker 6: vulgar at it. Like the thing is like Mike Eisner

2173
02:07:36,720 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 6: was better at it, like Bob iger is, who is

2174
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:41,960
Speaker 6: the CEO of Disney currently other he's about to step down.

2175
02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:45,400
Speaker 6: Bob Iger saw them through the acquisition of Marvel and

2176
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:49,520
Speaker 6: Star Wars and all that. He is an incredible I mean,

2177
02:07:49,560 --> 02:07:51,360
Speaker 6: you know, ever, whatever his team, he himself is a

2178
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:54,240
Speaker 6: pretty unimpressive guy. But like, you know, like other than

2179
02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:56,879
Speaker 6: internal politics, which is what all CEOs are good at anyway,

2180
02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:00,240
Speaker 6: you know, like these these these companies were already good

2181
02:08:00,240 --> 02:08:01,800
Speaker 6: at this, and like what has happened is that a

2182
02:08:01,840 --> 02:08:03,680
Speaker 6: wing of the capitalists who are really bad at it

2183
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:06,920
Speaker 6: and really resentful because they're all sort of like the

2184
02:08:07,200 --> 02:08:09,800
Speaker 6: David Allison's in the world. They're all the resentful fail

2185
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:13,920
Speaker 6: sons of wealth who you know, they want more power

2186
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:16,880
Speaker 6: and more respect and they don't appreciate how much their

2187
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,160
Speaker 6: shit is already built on the very thing they claim

2188
02:08:19,200 --> 02:08:19,720
Speaker 6: to want to do.

2189
02:08:20,280 --> 02:08:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I guess it is to some extent

2190
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:25,040
Speaker 2: a kind of funny like the election of Trump. And

2191
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:28,200
Speaker 2: also just sort of Ellison just like devouring this is

2192
02:08:28,200 --> 02:08:30,440
Speaker 2: what it was like third Studio that he's eaten in

2193
02:08:30,520 --> 02:08:33,960
Speaker 2: like five years, and like all all these forces being

2194
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:35,840
Speaker 2: devoured by this. This is like well, yeah, like this

2195
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:39,160
Speaker 2: is what happens when you set up a system like this,

2196
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:41,760
Speaker 2: Eventually there's going to be a bigger fish who's just

2197
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:44,200
Speaker 2: going to devour you because they have, for example, Oracle

2198
02:08:44,240 --> 02:08:46,120
Speaker 2: behind them, which is just an amount of capital that

2199
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:50,600
Speaker 2: like outside of like Disney, you can't have that kind

2200
02:08:50,640 --> 02:08:54,440
Speaker 2: of capital, right, And like with Trump, it's like, yeah,

2201
02:08:54,440 --> 02:08:58,640
Speaker 2: you finally created a monster that is large enough to

2202
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:02,480
Speaker 2: shatter the extremely della kit and complicated system that you did.

2203
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:05,360
Speaker 2: And it's also just doesn't understand it.

2204
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:07,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. And I think like if you want to

2205
02:09:07,800 --> 02:09:10,760
Speaker 6: see at the future of Hollywood looks like, I mean,

2206
02:09:10,800 --> 02:09:13,160
Speaker 6: you know, you can go worse than to look at China. Right,

2207
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:16,360
Speaker 6: China is the most dynamic film market. It overtook the

2208
02:09:16,440 --> 02:09:18,600
Speaker 6: US as the number one value of the box office

2209
02:09:18,720 --> 02:09:20,920
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty two, I think I think it did

2210
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty one, but that was still COVID shutdown affected.

2211
02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:25,400
Speaker 6: Twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three, China became an

2212
02:09:25,440 --> 02:09:28,160
Speaker 6: actual of the actual plurality of ticket sales in the

2213
02:09:28,160 --> 02:09:31,560
Speaker 6: world by dollar, if not by number. By number, they've

2214
02:09:31,560 --> 02:09:35,080
Speaker 6: already long surpassed the US. Yeah, but the way that

2215
02:09:35,160 --> 02:09:38,400
Speaker 6: Chinese film companies work is like they're all pretty nakedly

2216
02:09:38,760 --> 02:09:43,840
Speaker 6: financial companies like ten Cent and Ali Baba, right, and

2217
02:09:43,880 --> 02:09:46,160
Speaker 6: like the like these are companies, they're just already from

2218
02:09:46,200 --> 02:09:49,200
Speaker 6: other sectors, and they're just like we have cash, we

2219
02:09:49,320 --> 02:09:51,200
Speaker 6: use the cash to make a movie, yeah, which is

2220
02:09:51,240 --> 02:09:53,360
Speaker 6: what the studios always did too, Right. I want to

2221
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:55,640
Speaker 6: be really clear, like I don't want to romanticize, but

2222
02:09:55,800 --> 02:09:59,480
Speaker 6: like you know, that's where it always was, right, And

2223
02:09:59,520 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 6: it's just that like in the turn of the century

2224
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:04,440
Speaker 6: when Hollywood was being made, industries were just more divided.

2225
02:10:04,840 --> 02:10:16,200
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2226
02:10:16,240 --> 02:10:19,440
Speaker 6: The reason to talk about all of this business stuff

2227
02:10:19,560 --> 02:10:21,760
Speaker 6: on some level, I mean, it's interesting on its own

2228
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:24,400
Speaker 6: as history, it's interesting as a critique of capitalism, but

2229
02:10:24,560 --> 02:10:28,000
Speaker 6: I think it's also interesting because it affects the aesthetics,

2230
02:10:28,080 --> 02:10:30,600
Speaker 6: like of what the movies that get made. Right. And

2231
02:10:30,640 --> 02:10:32,760
Speaker 6: I think when we think about when people think about

2232
02:10:33,080 --> 02:10:36,520
Speaker 6: fascist propaganda, you know, we think about the Nazis, right, obviously,

2233
02:10:36,680 --> 02:10:40,200
Speaker 6: because the Nazis had the longest running fascist propaganda machine

2234
02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:43,480
Speaker 6: in the world. They had the Ministry of Culture under Gerbels, Right.

2235
02:10:43,800 --> 02:10:46,440
Speaker 6: And I think when we talk about Nazi propaganda, we

2236
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:49,200
Speaker 6: think about triumph for the will, and we think about

2237
02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:53,600
Speaker 6: stuff like Juden Zeus, right, like extremely horrifying anti Semitic bullshit. Yeah,

2238
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:57,400
Speaker 6: extremely horrifying anti Semitic movies. There were two of them

2239
02:10:57,800 --> 02:11:00,520
Speaker 6: in the ten years that Gerbels ran the un which

2240
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:02,960
Speaker 6: is the film company that made movies for Germany. The

2241
02:11:03,160 --> 02:11:06,680
Speaker 6: vast majority, the vast majority of films under the Life

2242
02:11:07,040 --> 02:11:11,640
Speaker 6: were frothy comedies and musicals and adventure stories. Because the

2243
02:11:11,720 --> 02:11:14,879
Speaker 6: principle that Girbels operating on was called the orchestra principle,

2244
02:11:15,120 --> 02:11:17,600
Speaker 6: and he believed that you should just actually art should

2245
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 6: just be reduced to creating feelings. It should be totally

2246
02:11:20,200 --> 02:11:23,400
Speaker 6: de intellectualized, and then very little of that art remains.

2247
02:11:23,520 --> 02:11:25,960
Speaker 6: Those movies are mid. You know, the movies made by

2248
02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:28,320
Speaker 6: Utha are not good, like even the ones that are

2249
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:32,520
Speaker 6: not offensive, they're just mid. But they all do the

2250
02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:36,360
Speaker 6: same thing. They all work together around a principle of

2251
02:11:36,520 --> 02:11:40,120
Speaker 6: certain principles around family and romantic love and domestic life,

2252
02:11:40,400 --> 02:11:43,200
Speaker 6: most of it inoffensive in and of itself. And so

2253
02:11:43,280 --> 02:11:46,560
Speaker 6: I think when we think about Ellison taking over, I

2254
02:11:46,560 --> 02:11:49,240
Speaker 6: think we imagine, you know, as we were joking about

2255
02:11:49,240 --> 02:11:51,320
Speaker 6: at the beginning, shit like the Daily Wire, anti woke,

2256
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:54,080
Speaker 6: Cinderella or whatever the fuck. Yeah, and I allowed to cuss,

2257
02:11:54,120 --> 02:11:55,040
Speaker 6: I'm doing so much of it.

2258
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the time. Okay, thank god we are not

2259
02:11:58,600 --> 02:11:59,760
Speaker 2: regulated by the FCC.

2260
02:12:01,280 --> 02:12:03,320
Speaker 6: Let's go, No one is these days.

2261
02:12:03,560 --> 02:12:05,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess we technically are, but we're not

2262
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:08,120
Speaker 2: under the radio regulation, so we can say whatever we want.

2263
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:16,000
Speaker 6: Perfect love that. But like, fascist filmmaking has not looked

2264
02:12:16,080 --> 02:12:19,160
Speaker 6: like that for the most part in the history of it.

2265
02:12:19,880 --> 02:12:25,320
Speaker 6: Fascist filmmaking looks like family adventure fair often, and I

2266
02:12:25,320 --> 02:12:28,280
Speaker 6: think we have been so blinded to the way that

2267
02:12:28,320 --> 02:12:31,400
Speaker 6: this happens that we imagine that Ellison taking over is

2268
02:12:31,400 --> 02:12:33,320
Speaker 6: suddenly going to mean that now there's going to be

2269
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:36,520
Speaker 6: fascist movies in theaters. But like, have y'all been to

2270
02:12:36,560 --> 02:12:38,320
Speaker 6: the movies? Yes, Like have y'all seen what Ward of

2271
02:12:38,400 --> 02:12:40,480
Speaker 6: Mothers did with like the Snyder verse?

2272
02:12:40,640 --> 02:12:43,320
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like did you did you watch The Beekeeper?

2273
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:43,720
Speaker 5: Right?

2274
02:12:43,760 --> 02:12:46,520
Speaker 2: Speaking of Netflix? Like that was the most fascist movie

2275
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:50,040
Speaker 2: I've ever seen exactly. It is literally it is a

2276
02:12:50,080 --> 02:12:53,800
Speaker 2: movie that is just a guy shooting a bunch of people,

2277
02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:57,720
Speaker 2: and then the background superstructure is an explanation of what

2278
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 2: the furory is, which is like the course that is

2279
02:13:00,600 --> 02:13:03,040
Speaker 2: outside of the order, that is able to violate the

2280
02:13:03,120 --> 02:13:04,720
Speaker 2: rules of the order in order to in order to

2281
02:13:04,760 --> 02:13:07,640
Speaker 2: create the order itself, except it's a guy called the

2282
02:13:07,680 --> 02:13:09,880
Speaker 2: bee Keeper and he just shoots people like.

2283
02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:11,120
Speaker 6: It's it's that's pretty bad.

2284
02:13:11,400 --> 02:13:11,960
Speaker 1: That's like that.

2285
02:13:12,040 --> 02:13:14,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I did not watch that one, and I like state, it's.

2286
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:17,320
Speaker 2: Really unhan, I want to it with my family. Nightmare.

2287
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:22,960
Speaker 2: Holy shit, it's going insane. Yeah, things are so bad that.

2288
02:13:23,080 --> 02:13:26,360
Speaker 6: Like there was a movie, Nobody with Bob Odenkirk that

2289
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:28,640
Speaker 6: came out in twenty nineteen, and it was basically a

2290
02:13:28,680 --> 02:13:31,600
Speaker 6: parody of those like Liam Neeson, you know, the John

2291
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:34,400
Speaker 6: Wick movies and like Liam Neeson like Dad then taken

2292
02:13:34,480 --> 02:13:34,920
Speaker 6: stuff right.

2293
02:13:35,120 --> 02:13:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a parody.

2294
02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:38,040
Speaker 6: Maybe you could be clued in by the fact that

2295
02:13:38,040 --> 02:13:40,400
Speaker 6: it was Bob Odenkirk and it was filmed with comedians.

2296
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:42,960
Speaker 6: Maybe you could be cluted by the fact that he's

2297
02:13:42,960 --> 02:13:46,080
Speaker 6: fighting because they took his daughter's Hello Kitty bracelet. Like

2298
02:13:46,240 --> 02:13:48,640
Speaker 6: there's a pretty like a dry but it's a dry

2299
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:49,520
Speaker 6: plays a very dry.

2300
02:13:49,760 --> 02:13:50,160
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2301
02:13:50,440 --> 02:13:54,880
Speaker 6: Every single professional film critic reviewed it like it was

2302
02:13:54,960 --> 02:13:59,360
Speaker 6: dead serious, like Bob was to become the next Liam Neeson.

2303
02:13:59,440 --> 02:14:02,440
Speaker 6: And part of that is because they shot good action sequences,

2304
02:14:02,520 --> 02:14:05,720
Speaker 6: Like he did a good job with this satire. But

2305
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:08,760
Speaker 6: then what happens, what happened next is that now there's

2306
02:14:08,760 --> 02:14:11,480
Speaker 6: a nobody too, and it's completely forgotten the joke and

2307
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:12,280
Speaker 6: it's not good either.

2308
02:14:12,400 --> 02:14:14,880
Speaker 2: So like Jesus fucking Christ, yeah.

2309
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:16,280
Speaker 6: And Bob when and Kirk just like he had this

2310
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,320
Speaker 6: one window where he could really sell that he couldn't

2311
02:14:18,320 --> 02:14:19,720
Speaker 6: sell it in the sequel. It doesn't matter.

2312
02:14:20,040 --> 02:14:22,600
Speaker 2: It's it's the jort Head sequels right exactly.

2313
02:14:22,840 --> 02:14:26,760
Speaker 6: But like we're just in a time of extreme literalism,

2314
02:14:27,560 --> 02:14:32,240
Speaker 6: where like everything is really really like script driven. It's

2315
02:14:32,280 --> 02:14:36,280
Speaker 6: really on its face, it's really textual. Everything is just

2316
02:14:36,320 --> 02:14:40,520
Speaker 6: selling something else. Everything can possibly be sequel. Nothing really changes,

2317
02:14:40,960 --> 02:14:45,800
Speaker 6: politics only exists as bureaucracy. These are all deeply fascist concepts.

2318
02:14:46,040 --> 02:14:50,440
Speaker 6: They're just more subtle than goose stepping SS uniforms. You know.

2319
02:14:51,320 --> 02:14:53,360
Speaker 6: Part of what's so funny about the Daily Wire is

2320
02:14:53,400 --> 02:14:56,280
Speaker 6: it's like like they come for Disney, like you can't

2321
02:14:56,320 --> 02:14:58,920
Speaker 6: do anything to make a more fascist pot Like Disney

2322
02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:01,600
Speaker 6: entertains people and makes the flash as populous, like they're

2323
02:15:01,720 --> 02:15:05,120
Speaker 6: just bad filmmakers and that kind of matters.

2324
02:15:05,360 --> 02:15:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there is a chance that like I

2325
02:15:09,040 --> 02:15:11,320
Speaker 2: don't know, Ellison is such a dumb ass that he

2326
02:15:11,480 --> 02:15:16,040
Speaker 2: just tries to do it anyways, like he just tries

2327
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:18,480
Speaker 2: to be like fuck it. Well, but even then, like

2328
02:15:18,520 --> 02:15:21,600
Speaker 2: he hasn't really made like a stereotype of Nazi movies.

2329
02:15:21,640 --> 02:15:25,680
Speaker 2: He's made like actual Nazi movies. Just to say, the

2330
02:15:26,120 --> 02:15:27,760
Speaker 2: fucking Top gunn Baverick.

2331
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:32,760
Speaker 6: And people loved Top Mavericks. People were like, yeah, I

2332
02:15:32,760 --> 02:15:35,360
Speaker 6: guess it's maybe kind of problematic, like but we love

2333
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:39,040
Speaker 6: you know. It's like that movie is like literally propaganda

2334
02:15:39,040 --> 02:15:41,320
Speaker 6: for the Air Force. Like I thought it was fun. Yeah,

2335
02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:44,640
Speaker 6: don't get me wrong, but like people are have been

2336
02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:46,800
Speaker 6: really trained to not see that stuff.

2337
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like we're like now fighting the war

2338
02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:52,840
Speaker 2: at that movie was propaganda for yes, exactly, like we're

2339
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:56,120
Speaker 2: literally we literally are fighting. We made it a road

2340
02:15:56,560 --> 02:15:58,160
Speaker 2: like were we've bolved a ride at all.

2341
02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:00,840
Speaker 6: That fifteens went down so the first on the Gulf War.

2342
02:16:01,560 --> 02:16:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they got shut down by Allies air defenses.

2343
02:16:07,560 --> 02:16:09,840
Speaker 6: You know why we didn't have Maverick, We didn't have

2344
02:16:10,560 --> 02:16:13,600
Speaker 6: Tom Cruise training them. And that's what Allison's gonna do.

2345
02:16:13,600 --> 02:16:15,320
Speaker 6: That's why I'm happy he's merging it. Because our our

2346
02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:17,200
Speaker 6: brave boys and the skies are going to be safer.

2347
02:16:17,560 --> 02:16:17,960
Speaker 2: God.

2348
02:16:18,240 --> 02:16:20,800
Speaker 6: So yeah, anyways, I don't know where I'm going with this,

2349
02:16:20,880 --> 02:16:24,400
Speaker 6: because obviously things are bad, and anyone betting against things

2350
02:16:24,520 --> 02:16:27,200
Speaker 6: getting worse over the last ten years has lost their pants, right,

2351
02:16:27,560 --> 02:16:32,920
Speaker 6: But things can get worse. But like, also there is

2352
02:16:33,600 --> 02:16:37,800
Speaker 6: the actual object, the actual film object exists, and like

2353
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:40,640
Speaker 6: part of what has been hard about Hollywood, the reason

2354
02:16:40,640 --> 02:16:42,720
Speaker 6: they've built these monopoly structus, the reason they've built these

2355
02:16:42,840 --> 02:16:47,160
Speaker 6: pease structures is because because audiences are fickle, and that's annoying,

2356
02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:49,560
Speaker 6: and you can't just like force stuff down their throats

2357
02:16:49,560 --> 02:16:51,240
Speaker 6: and they're not going to just like buy something for

2358
02:16:51,280 --> 02:16:54,039
Speaker 6: sure every time, and you have to sort of seduce them,

2359
02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:55,800
Speaker 6: right like, it's it's you have to you have to

2360
02:16:55,840 --> 02:16:58,720
Speaker 6: make something they want to see. Right The MCU was

2361
02:16:58,840 --> 02:17:01,240
Speaker 6: unstoppable until it stopped, and now no one likes it

2362
02:17:01,280 --> 02:17:03,480
Speaker 6: and it's really annoying, right like, and they still make

2363
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:06,080
Speaker 6: their money back on the MCU, Like they're doing fine. No,

2364
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:10,000
Speaker 6: do not play a violin for Kevin Feige. He's doing fine.

2365
02:17:10,160 --> 02:17:12,640
Speaker 6: You know, he's crying on his third jot, you know.

2366
02:17:12,920 --> 02:17:15,280
Speaker 6: But like, but so I guess what I'm saying is

2367
02:17:15,280 --> 02:17:17,680
Speaker 6: that like, is that, like, as we enter into more

2368
02:17:17,720 --> 02:17:21,200
Speaker 6: and more naked versions of this, what it should help

2369
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:23,360
Speaker 6: us do you, rather than think, oh my god, all

2370
02:17:23,440 --> 02:17:26,560
Speaker 6: is lost? Is to reflect on how we got here already,

2371
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:30,680
Speaker 6: How often we were already here under liberalism, under Biden,

2372
02:17:30,840 --> 02:17:34,360
Speaker 6: under just regular capitalist conditions, how often we've already been here,

2373
02:17:34,959 --> 02:17:38,039
Speaker 6: reevaluate the way we think about what good culture could

2374
02:17:38,040 --> 02:17:39,680
Speaker 6: look like, and then start to move.

2375
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:40,360
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2376
02:17:40,400 --> 02:17:41,960
Speaker 2: I want to come back to something I said a

2377
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:44,200
Speaker 2: few years ago when we did a show with Gare

2378
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:46,680
Speaker 2: about the People's Joker, and.

2379
02:17:48,360 --> 02:17:49,240
Speaker 6: I saw the TV glow.

2380
02:17:49,600 --> 02:17:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw the TV glob. I was about to

2381
02:17:51,520 --> 02:17:53,880
Speaker 2: say the one about the age who has the bad

2382
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:55,320
Speaker 2: ending and never transitions.

2383
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:57,440
Speaker 6: Yes, the horror of you about not transitioning yet.

2384
02:17:57,520 --> 02:18:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think there is extent to which, you know,

2385
02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:06,640
Speaker 2: there was a really brief attempt to sort of sublimate

2386
02:18:06,760 --> 02:18:13,080
Speaker 2: transness into film for like one year. But you know,

2387
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:15,640
Speaker 2: like we're the people who've been spat out of this,

2388
02:18:15,800 --> 02:18:19,120
Speaker 2: but also trans people are making movies at a rate

2389
02:18:19,160 --> 02:18:22,080
Speaker 2: that has never happened before. Ever, There's never been anything

2390
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:24,959
Speaker 2: like it. And you know, like the wachowskis like have

2391
02:18:25,040 --> 02:18:27,000
Speaker 2: a studio now where they're pumping out a bunch of

2392
02:18:27,080 --> 02:18:30,800
Speaker 2: trans movies, and like, you know, we're getting like Manhunter,

2393
02:18:30,920 --> 02:18:33,959
Speaker 2: and we're getting like a whole bunch of other stuff.

2394
02:18:34,160 --> 02:18:36,040
Speaker 2: And you know, the thing I said a few years

2395
02:18:36,040 --> 02:18:38,920
Speaker 2: ago I think is even more desperate and true now

2396
02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:42,400
Speaker 2: is that like transfilm is one of the last things

2397
02:18:42,400 --> 02:18:46,280
Speaker 2: fighting for the existence of film as a medium and

2398
02:18:46,400 --> 02:18:50,760
Speaker 2: not as a way to sell you toys and like

2399
02:18:51,160 --> 02:18:52,320
Speaker 2: fifteen dollars popcorn.

2400
02:18:52,879 --> 02:18:55,720
Speaker 6: Hey, they also tell you all expenses paid vacations. You

2401
02:18:55,720 --> 02:19:00,120
Speaker 6: have to go into debt for it. Okay, me that

2402
02:19:00,920 --> 02:19:03,440
Speaker 6: support trans film, support local film. And the thing about

2403
02:19:03,480 --> 02:19:05,320
Speaker 6: movies is that movies are bad. But the other thing

2404
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:07,160
Speaker 6: is that movies are good. So it's hard.

2405
02:19:08,360 --> 02:19:13,000
Speaker 2: The dialectic InMotion, yeah, yeah, Look, I will say this,

2406
02:19:13,320 --> 02:19:16,440
Speaker 2: there has been for many thousands of years a second

2407
02:19:16,480 --> 02:19:20,880
Speaker 2: dialectic operating, and then it's a dialectic labor and capital.

2408
02:19:21,600 --> 02:19:24,560
Speaker 2: That's probably I probably backdated capital too far, but you know,

2409
02:19:25,120 --> 02:19:28,119
Speaker 2: fuck it, I don't know. We could resolve We could

2410
02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:31,520
Speaker 2: resolve movies good in movies bad by resolving the other

2411
02:19:31,600 --> 02:19:35,880
Speaker 2: dialectic of capital and labor, by simply destroying the categories

2412
02:19:35,879 --> 02:19:37,879
Speaker 2: and ending the class system. I believe in us we

2413
02:19:37,920 --> 02:19:40,959
Speaker 2: can make a movie good again. Movie has never been good.

2414
02:19:41,240 --> 02:19:43,400
Speaker 2: There can be a new future. We're movie good.

2415
02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:47,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right exactly. Yeah, yeah, I believe.

2416
02:19:47,560 --> 02:19:51,039
Speaker 2: One final thing, VICKI where where can people find your book?

2417
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:54,280
Speaker 6: Yes, it's being put up by Haymarket, so you can

2418
02:19:54,280 --> 02:19:56,360
Speaker 6: go to their website. I also have a link to

2419
02:19:56,760 --> 02:19:59,920
Speaker 6: my bookshop page via a Blue Sky. I'm Vicky Acab

2420
02:20:00,080 --> 02:20:03,120
Speaker 6: on Blue Sky. So if you want to watch me

2421
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:09,040
Speaker 6: posting through it, you know, come hang out, I guess. Yeah.

2422
02:20:09,959 --> 02:20:12,480
Speaker 6: Talk to libraries about it. Ask a local if you

2423
02:20:12,480 --> 02:20:14,840
Speaker 6: have a local bookshop, asking them that stuff really helps

2424
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:17,920
Speaker 6: make a huge difference. And yeah, I would really appreciate

2425
02:20:17,920 --> 02:20:20,320
Speaker 6: any of that. If you're if you're interested in how

2426
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:23,080
Speaker 6: Disney destroyed the world and in the ways that we've

2427
02:20:23,080 --> 02:20:25,440
Speaker 6: been talking about here today, can read way more about it.

2428
02:20:25,760 --> 02:20:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know, Vicky. Vicky's book's good? Can

2429
02:20:28,680 --> 02:20:31,440
Speaker 2: confirm have read they are?

2430
02:20:31,560 --> 02:20:32,039
Speaker 1: They're good?

2431
02:20:32,240 --> 02:20:32,600
Speaker 8: Oh?

2432
02:20:32,600 --> 02:20:33,039
Speaker 6: Thanks man.

2433
02:20:46,640 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 1: We should have kept working on that bomb that they

2434
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:51,680
Speaker 1: thought would turn the entire enemy army gay, which was

2435
02:20:51,720 --> 02:20:53,280
Speaker 1: the thing they really put money into.

2436
02:20:53,840 --> 02:20:55,080
Speaker 2: This is it could happen here.

2437
02:20:55,240 --> 02:20:58,959
Speaker 7: Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

2438
02:20:59,000 --> 02:21:01,280
Speaker 7: White House, the Crumpling world, and what it means for you.

2439
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:04,720
Speaker 7: I'm Garrison Davis today. I'm joined by Miawong, James Stout,

2440
02:21:04,959 --> 02:21:07,959
Speaker 7: and Robert Evans. This episode, we are covering the week

2441
02:21:07,959 --> 02:21:11,960
Speaker 7: of February twenty fifth to March fourth. A House committee

2442
02:21:12,000 --> 02:21:15,640
Speaker 7: just today on Wednesday, as subpoenaed ag pambonid to testify

2443
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:19,000
Speaker 7: on her handling of the Epstein investigation, with five Republicans

2444
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:22,400
Speaker 7: joining all Democrats in the vote. Hillary Clinton was asked

2445
02:21:22,400 --> 02:21:26,800
Speaker 7: about Pizzagate and UFOs during her congressional testimony on Jeffrey Epstein.

2446
02:21:26,879 --> 02:21:29,560
Speaker 7: More on that next week, in a special episode, God

2447
02:21:30,280 --> 02:21:35,160
Speaker 7: and Netflix declined to raise their offer to buy Warner Brothers,

2448
02:21:35,320 --> 02:21:39,360
Speaker 7: resulting in Paramount winning the bidding war. FCC chairman Brendan

2449
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:42,640
Speaker 7: Carr held CNBC that the Paramount deal would be approved

2450
02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:46,200
Speaker 7: quote unquote pretty quickly and that Netflix quote would have

2451
02:21:46,240 --> 02:21:50,000
Speaker 7: had a very difficult path saying the Paramount deal is

2452
02:21:50,080 --> 02:21:53,440
Speaker 7: quote a lot cleaner, does not raise all the same

2453
02:21:53,560 --> 02:21:57,240
Speaker 7: types of concerns unquote. More on that in the episode

2454
02:21:57,280 --> 02:22:03,920
Speaker 7: before this one insane, he just said that outline and yeah,

2455
02:22:03,959 --> 02:22:08,400
Speaker 7: on Thursday, February twenty sixth, almost a year after Mahmoud

2456
02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:13,039
Speaker 7: Khalil was first attained, ICE agents arrested another Columbia student

2457
02:22:13,160 --> 02:22:17,359
Speaker 7: in the early hours of the morning. Shortly after six am,

2458
02:22:17,640 --> 02:22:20,359
Speaker 7: five playing clothes agents from the Department of Homeland Security

2459
02:22:20,600 --> 02:22:24,279
Speaker 7: showed up outside a Columbia apartment building without a warrant,

2460
02:22:24,560 --> 02:22:29,200
Speaker 7: demanding to be let inside. The agents gained entry by

2461
02:22:29,240 --> 02:22:33,600
Speaker 7: falsely telling the building's superintendent that they were police searching

2462
02:22:33,680 --> 02:22:38,160
Speaker 7: for a missing child, even bringing pictures of this fake kid.

2463
02:22:38,600 --> 02:22:42,000
Speaker 7: The agents used this lie to enter into the apartment

2464
02:22:42,320 --> 02:22:46,000
Speaker 7: of twenty nine year old student Ellie Agaheva, where she

2465
02:22:46,280 --> 02:22:50,600
Speaker 7: was then arrested and taken off campus. After being detained,

2466
02:22:50,760 --> 02:22:56,800
Speaker 7: Agaheva posted on Instagram quote, dhs illegally arrested me. Please help.

2467
02:22:58,040 --> 02:23:01,840
Speaker 7: This same day, Mayormamdanni happened to be meeting with President

2468
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:04,480
Speaker 7: Trump in the White House regarding federal funding for the

2469
02:23:04,560 --> 02:23:08,600
Speaker 7: Sunnyside Yards housing project. During this meeting, the mayor voiced

2470
02:23:08,600 --> 02:23:11,760
Speaker 7: opposition to ICE raids and concerned about the detention of

2471
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:14,560
Speaker 7: the Columbia student. Earlier that morning.

2472
02:23:14,640 --> 02:23:18,039
Speaker 13: I shared my concern with the President about IS's detention

2473
02:23:18,160 --> 02:23:22,480
Speaker 13: of Columbia student Elmina Agayeva yesterday morning, as well as

2474
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:25,600
Speaker 13: the detention of four additional New Yorkers in relation to

2475
02:23:25,640 --> 02:23:30,080
Speaker 13: the university, Mahmud Khalil, Masen, Mahdawi, jinse O Chung, and

2476
02:23:30,120 --> 02:23:33,840
Speaker 13: the Kakordia. I asked that their cases be dropped. I'm

2477
02:23:33,879 --> 02:23:37,120
Speaker 13: grateful that shortly after our meeting, the President called me

2478
02:23:37,240 --> 02:23:40,320
Speaker 13: to inform me that Elmina would be imminently released, and

2479
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:41,280
Speaker 13: indeed she was.

2480
02:23:42,160 --> 02:23:45,000
Speaker 7: The mayor also discussed the release of Akajeva in a

2481
02:23:45,160 --> 02:23:46,800
Speaker 7: question during this press conference.

2482
02:23:47,400 --> 02:23:50,880
Speaker 8: During your advocacy with President Trump, what do you think

2483
02:23:50,920 --> 02:23:53,119
Speaker 8: the winning argument was and did.

2484
02:23:52,920 --> 02:23:54,039
Speaker 4: They reverse course?

2485
02:23:55,240 --> 02:23:57,840
Speaker 13: All I can tell you is what happened, which is

2486
02:23:57,879 --> 02:24:01,560
Speaker 13: that I shared directly with the President and a list

2487
02:24:01,560 --> 02:24:04,000
Speaker 13: of names of Columbia students and those who've also been

2488
02:24:04,480 --> 02:24:08,320
Speaker 13: detained because of their activity on Columbia campus, and that

2489
02:24:08,680 --> 02:24:11,680
Speaker 13: these actions do nothing to advance the cause of public safety,

2490
02:24:12,200 --> 02:24:15,200
Speaker 13: and I asked that these cases be dropped, and the

2491
02:24:15,240 --> 02:24:17,760
Speaker 13: President said that he would look into it. Soon after

2492
02:24:17,800 --> 02:24:20,400
Speaker 13: the meeting, I received a phone call from the President

2493
02:24:20,600 --> 02:24:23,160
Speaker 13: saying that he was going to eminently release her.

2494
02:24:23,640 --> 02:24:27,320
Speaker 7: At three forty five pm, Agaheva posted on Instagram that

2495
02:24:27,360 --> 02:24:30,520
Speaker 7: she'd been released and was quote unquote safe and okay.

2496
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:34,800
Speaker 7: On Thursday night, a dhspookesperson told a reporter that Akaheva's

2497
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:38,760
Speaker 7: student visa was terminated in twenty sixteen for failing to

2498
02:24:38,800 --> 02:24:42,400
Speaker 7: attend classes and that quote ICE placed her in removal

2499
02:24:42,440 --> 02:24:45,720
Speaker 7: proceedings and she's been released while she waits for her

2500
02:24:45,760 --> 02:24:48,920
Speaker 7: hearing unquote. The current state of her case is unknown,

2501
02:24:49,200 --> 02:24:52,720
Speaker 7: with neither her lawyers nor DHS providing any follow up statements.

2502
02:24:53,240 --> 02:24:56,440
Speaker 10: That last part is very confusing to me, right, because

2503
02:24:56,920 --> 02:24:59,439
Speaker 10: if she had lost her student visa for non attendant

2504
02:24:59,680 --> 02:25:02,800
Speaker 10: that can happen, that would have shown up in SEBZ, right,

2505
02:25:02,840 --> 02:25:06,080
Speaker 10: and that was a decade ago. That part confused me.

2506
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:08,160
Speaker 10: I just so I was scanning it right before we started,

2507
02:25:08,160 --> 02:25:09,920
Speaker 10: and I figured i'd just ask you in the episode.

2508
02:25:09,959 --> 02:25:12,840
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, she has no pending cases with

2509
02:25:13,080 --> 02:25:17,040
Speaker 7: DHS in their system, or no pending appeals. It's very

2510
02:25:17,080 --> 02:25:19,960
Speaker 7: unclear what happened here or the exact cause of why

2511
02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:22,840
Speaker 7: she was arrested and the state of whatever visa she

2512
02:25:22,920 --> 02:25:23,200
Speaker 7: is on.

2513
02:25:23,600 --> 02:25:25,720
Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, she could have been on a completely different visa.

2514
02:25:25,879 --> 02:25:27,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's very unclear.

2515
02:25:27,160 --> 02:25:29,560
Speaker 10: There's a lot here that I'd like to know many

2516
02:25:29,640 --> 02:25:32,760
Speaker 10: such cases, I guess, so to start with a couple

2517
02:25:32,760 --> 02:25:35,680
Speaker 10: of immigration things, do you want to send it? Hearing yesterday,

2518
02:25:35,720 --> 02:25:40,280
Speaker 10: that's Tuesday, Christine Nome doubled down on the claim she's

2519
02:25:40,280 --> 02:25:43,760
Speaker 10: previously made about Alex Pretty, which are as far as

2520
02:25:43,800 --> 02:25:46,120
Speaker 10: we can tell, false, right, saying his action to a

2521
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:50,120
Speaker 10: quote the definition of domestic terrorism. She's in the House

2522
02:25:50,160 --> 02:25:53,720
Speaker 10: testifying today, So I will try and summarize both those

2523
02:25:53,760 --> 02:25:57,480
Speaker 10: testimonies in next week's ED just just so we don't

2524
02:25:57,520 --> 02:25:59,240
Speaker 10: end up covering this twice. And we've got a lot

2525
02:25:59,280 --> 02:26:03,160
Speaker 10: to address today. This is breaking news right before we

2526
02:26:03,560 --> 02:26:08,080
Speaker 10: released the podcast. Christine Noam, the Secretary of Homeland Security,

2527
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:10,160
Speaker 10: is going to be leaving that job at the end

2528
02:26:10,200 --> 02:26:13,480
Speaker 10: of March, and she will be replaced by current United

2529
02:26:13,520 --> 02:26:17,920
Speaker 10: States Senator for Oklahoma Mark Wayne Mullin. Nom will be

2530
02:26:18,280 --> 02:26:21,000
Speaker 10: moving into another job where she will be the Special

2531
02:26:21,120 --> 02:26:24,440
Speaker 10: Envoy for the Shield of the Americas, which is a

2532
02:26:24,480 --> 02:26:28,440
Speaker 10: security initiative for the Western hemisphere that Trump is planning

2533
02:26:28,520 --> 02:26:32,640
Speaker 10: on telling us more about this weekend. Mullin, for those

2534
02:26:32,640 --> 02:26:36,360
Speaker 10: aren't familiar, is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. He

2535
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:39,160
Speaker 10: has been in the House of Representatives for ten years

2536
02:26:39,160 --> 02:26:42,279
Speaker 10: before he was in the Senate for the last three years,

2537
02:26:42,720 --> 02:26:46,560
Speaker 10: and he used to be a professional mma fighter. Secondly,

2538
02:26:46,640 --> 02:26:51,680
Speaker 10: Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty has announced an investigation into

2539
02:26:51,760 --> 02:26:55,800
Speaker 10: potential misconduct by federal officers in the state, and response

2540
02:26:55,920 --> 02:26:59,440
Speaker 10: DHS has claimed that quote federal officials acting in the

2541
02:26:59,440 --> 02:27:03,120
Speaker 10: course of their ties are immune from liability under state law.

2542
02:27:03,760 --> 02:27:08,800
Speaker 10: This isn't true in legal terms, right, Federal officials can

2543
02:27:08,879 --> 02:27:11,880
Speaker 10: be prosecuted if their actions weren't necessary or proper, or

2544
02:27:11,920 --> 02:27:14,480
Speaker 10: were not in the course of their duties. So this

2545
02:27:14,520 --> 02:27:18,280
Speaker 10: pertains to the supremacy clause of the Constitution. Right, and

2546
02:27:18,320 --> 02:27:21,800
Speaker 10: there's a two part test for supremacy clause immunity aid

2547
02:27:21,840 --> 02:27:25,720
Speaker 10: the federal officials actions authorized under federal law and be

2548
02:27:25,840 --> 02:27:28,640
Speaker 10: that they are quote necessary, improper in the execution of

2549
02:27:28,640 --> 02:27:31,640
Speaker 10: their duties as a federal officer. I will link in

2550
02:27:31,680 --> 02:27:34,879
Speaker 10: the sources of our document to a tenth Circuit case

2551
02:27:34,920 --> 02:27:38,000
Speaker 10: on this. The case was about some Federal Wildlife officers

2552
02:27:38,040 --> 02:27:41,520
Speaker 10: who had crossed on to private land during a wolf

2553
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:45,760
Speaker 10: coloring operation in Wyoming, and then Wyoming A tempted to

2554
02:27:45,760 --> 02:27:48,840
Speaker 10: prosecute them for trespassing, right, so we can see like

2555
02:27:49,160 --> 02:27:52,320
Speaker 10: a previous example of this, but it's not true that

2556
02:27:52,400 --> 02:27:55,959
Speaker 10: they have complete immunity from state laws, which is what's

2557
02:27:56,000 --> 02:28:00,320
Speaker 10: important here. I want to move on to Iran, just

2558
02:28:00,520 --> 02:28:04,840
Speaker 10: like most of the US military has done. But thank you,

2559
02:28:05,840 --> 02:28:09,080
Speaker 10: it works so hard on these Yeah. So we made

2560
02:28:09,080 --> 02:28:11,800
Speaker 10: a whole episode about this, which came out on Wednesday

2561
02:28:11,840 --> 02:28:14,400
Speaker 10: of this week, and I don't want to recap what

2562
02:28:14,480 --> 02:28:16,640
Speaker 10: we said there. That is why we make lots of

2563
02:28:16,680 --> 02:28:19,600
Speaker 10: episodes so you can go into depth on things. So

2564
02:28:20,200 --> 02:28:23,800
Speaker 10: I will for the most part be picking up on

2565
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:26,600
Speaker 10: that by updating people and things that have happened in the

2566
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:29,960
Speaker 10: twenty four hours since we recorded that. Firstly, it seems

2567
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:33,440
Speaker 10: that the attacks, or E said timing was heavily driven

2568
02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:38,120
Speaker 10: by Israel, who were likely acting on intelligence about the

2569
02:28:38,360 --> 02:28:41,920
Speaker 10: whereabouts of Harmoni. The attacks occurred in the daytime, which

2570
02:28:41,959 --> 02:28:44,880
Speaker 10: is pretty unusual, like normally they want to time these

2571
02:28:44,920 --> 02:28:47,720
Speaker 10: things with moon phase. They want to do them at

2572
02:28:47,800 --> 02:28:50,280
Speaker 10: night just to make them safer for any of the

2573
02:28:50,920 --> 02:28:54,400
Speaker 10: piloted aircraft that they're using. Right. I also wanted to

2574
02:28:54,440 --> 02:28:56,959
Speaker 10: point out so that the source of this Israel claim,

2575
02:28:57,160 --> 02:29:01,840
Speaker 10: let's start there, comes from the bid response forty seven account.

2576
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:04,520
Speaker 10: I guess I described that as like a White House

2577
02:29:04,520 --> 02:29:08,199
Speaker 10: affiliated Twitter account. I can't think of the Yeah, it's

2578
02:29:08,400 --> 02:29:10,440
Speaker 10: one of the accounts at the It's not White House,

2579
02:29:10,480 --> 02:29:13,400
Speaker 10: but it's one of the accounts that the Trump administration runs, one.

2580
02:29:13,360 --> 02:29:16,240
Speaker 7: Of the accounts the administration users to disseminate information.

2581
02:29:16,480 --> 02:29:19,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's quotation here from Marco Rubio quote. The President

2582
02:29:19,760 --> 02:29:22,240
Speaker 10: made the very wise decision. We knew that there was

2583
02:29:22,280 --> 02:29:24,840
Speaker 10: going to be an Israeli action, We knew that that

2584
02:29:24,840 --> 02:29:27,879
Speaker 10: would precipitate an attack against American forces, and we knew

2585
02:29:27,879 --> 02:29:30,160
Speaker 10: that if we didn't preemptively go after them before they

2586
02:29:30,240 --> 02:29:33,640
Speaker 10: launched over the attacks, we would suffer higher casualties. It

2587
02:29:33,760 --> 02:29:36,960
Speaker 10: seems like the initial push came from Israel, right. I'd

2588
02:29:36,959 --> 02:29:40,240
Speaker 10: also like to add that Tafran is getting bombed very

2589
02:29:40,280 --> 02:29:44,200
Speaker 10: heavily as we record this, something I think is missing

2590
02:29:44,240 --> 02:29:46,160
Speaker 10: in that discourse. We were actually going to have an

2591
02:29:46,200 --> 02:29:49,960
Speaker 10: episode about the water crisis in Iran this week. For

2592
02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:54,840
Speaker 10: obvious reasons, we made another Iran based episode. But Iran

2593
02:29:54,920 --> 02:29:58,560
Speaker 10: is critically low on water. Lake Umir, which was the

2594
02:29:58,640 --> 02:30:02,560
Speaker 10: largest lake in Asia, actually gone now from damning from

2595
02:30:02,800 --> 02:30:06,520
Speaker 10: draining of aquifers, and Tehran is sitting on top of

2596
02:30:06,560 --> 02:30:11,240
Speaker 10: an empty aquifer, which leads to greater potential for damage,

2597
02:30:11,240 --> 02:30:14,160
Speaker 10: I guess with some of these large bombs that we're

2598
02:30:14,200 --> 02:30:15,440
Speaker 10: seeing drop there, right.

2599
02:30:15,520 --> 02:30:18,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it also means that absent even any of

2600
02:30:18,480 --> 02:30:21,720
Speaker 1: this military aggression from the US that we're seeing right now,

2601
02:30:22,280 --> 02:30:26,960
Speaker 1: Iran was in realistic danger of becoming a failed state. Yes,

2602
02:30:27,000 --> 02:30:30,200
Speaker 1: because of the sheer lack of water. That is an

2603
02:30:30,240 --> 02:30:34,400
Speaker 1: existential threat when your capital city is running out of water, like,

2604
02:30:34,440 --> 02:30:36,480
Speaker 1: there's no other way to look at that kind scale

2605
02:30:36,520 --> 02:30:40,400
Speaker 1: of problem. And the fact that now they're dealing with

2606
02:30:40,440 --> 02:30:44,280
Speaker 1: this massacre of the people who had been running things,

2607
02:30:44,280 --> 02:30:46,680
Speaker 1: as well as mass destruction via the air of a

2608
02:30:46,680 --> 02:30:50,039
Speaker 1: lot of civil infrastructure. This is just so much more

2609
02:30:50,120 --> 02:30:52,879
Speaker 1: of a problem, and it makes the odds of the

2610
02:30:53,000 --> 02:30:55,440
Speaker 1: end result of all this being a failed state in

2611
02:30:55,480 --> 02:30:59,199
Speaker 1: the region that leads to a humanitarian crisis on scale

2612
02:30:59,640 --> 02:31:02,119
Speaker 1: of the refugee crisis we saw during the early stages

2613
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:03,800
Speaker 1: of the Syrians of a war much likelier.

2614
02:31:04,160 --> 02:31:06,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, especially when you consider that there are millions of

2615
02:31:06,959 --> 02:31:10,440
Speaker 10: refugees already living in Iran right from Afghanistan right Ran

2616
02:31:10,520 --> 02:31:13,720
Speaker 10: it has been deporting them on a massive level. But like, yes,

2617
02:31:13,800 --> 02:31:17,280
Speaker 10: the chances of this being an absolute humanitarian disaster are

2618
02:31:17,320 --> 02:31:21,520
Speaker 10: worryingly high. Tehran received one millimeter of rain. Yeah, last

2619
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:24,480
Speaker 10: year according to some Guardian reporting. I read like they

2620
02:31:24,480 --> 02:31:26,760
Speaker 10: were already, as you said, very close to people turning

2621
02:31:26,760 --> 02:31:29,200
Speaker 10: on the taps and nothing coming out. Yeah, they say,

2622
02:31:29,240 --> 02:31:32,720
Speaker 10: is not helping that. I want to move on to

2623
02:31:32,879 --> 02:31:35,640
Speaker 10: these claims that we have seen in the past twenty

2624
02:31:35,680 --> 02:31:41,640
Speaker 10: four hours about a Kurdish partner force in eastern Kurdistan, right,

2625
02:31:41,720 --> 02:31:44,400
Speaker 10: And in Kurdish that would be called Roja Lat that

2626
02:31:44,400 --> 02:31:46,000
Speaker 10: would be Western Iran, right.

2627
02:31:46,040 --> 02:31:51,000
Speaker 1: Right, Like Kurdistan. The broader region is western Iran, northern Iraq,

2628
02:31:51,240 --> 02:31:54,720
Speaker 1: northeast Syria, southern Turkey. Right. You can draw kind of

2629
02:31:54,760 --> 02:31:57,000
Speaker 1: a big glob around all those parts of the world

2630
02:31:57,040 --> 02:31:57,880
Speaker 1: that's Kurdistan.

2631
02:31:58,080 --> 02:32:00,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, exactly, if you can like draw up blot encompasses

2632
02:32:00,600 --> 02:32:03,600
Speaker 10: all of those things. Yeah. Obviously Kurdistan is not a state,

2633
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:04,960
Speaker 10: it's an area.

2634
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:05,760
Speaker 2: It's not at all.

2635
02:32:06,080 --> 02:32:08,840
Speaker 10: That is part of the issue at stake here, kind

2636
02:32:08,879 --> 02:32:10,800
Speaker 10: of a big deal kind of the thing.

2637
02:32:11,480 --> 02:32:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2638
02:32:12,200 --> 02:32:16,160
Speaker 10: So Axios has reported that Trump called Buffal Talabani and

2639
02:32:16,200 --> 02:32:18,840
Speaker 10: Masud Barzani, who are the leaders of the two biggest

2640
02:32:18,879 --> 02:32:22,720
Speaker 10: factions in Iraqi Kurdistan. Yeah at Southern Kadistan North in Iraq.

2641
02:32:23,720 --> 02:32:27,160
Speaker 10: The piece was written by Barak Ravine. This is not

2642
02:32:27,320 --> 02:32:30,560
Speaker 10: Barak's first time joining us on executive disorder. Friend of

2643
02:32:30,600 --> 02:32:35,560
Speaker 10: the Bad Yeah yeah, regular guest biography. People remember last

2644
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:37,320
Speaker 10: time that we talked about Barak. It was in the

2645
02:32:37,320 --> 02:32:41,760
Speaker 10: context of a leaked proposal for peace between Russia and

2646
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:45,240
Speaker 10: Ukraine that appeared to be essentially a list of Russian

2647
02:32:45,280 --> 02:32:49,039
Speaker 10: demands but was not present was presented as a US proposal.

2648
02:32:49,760 --> 02:32:52,160
Speaker 10: I will try and remember what week we talked about

2649
02:32:52,160 --> 02:32:54,560
Speaker 10: that and the so that link in case people want

2650
02:32:54,600 --> 02:32:57,200
Speaker 10: to go back, right like, I've spent a lot of

2651
02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:00,000
Speaker 10: time appointing out on various websites how bad this piece was.

2652
02:33:00,280 --> 02:33:03,680
Speaker 10: It was atrocious in its understanding of Kurdish movements. For instance,

2653
02:33:03,800 --> 02:33:07,720
Speaker 10: it it listed Talabani and Bazani as leaders of Iranian

2654
02:33:08,520 --> 02:33:15,760
Speaker 10: Kurdish factions. What yeah, Like. I think it's important to

2655
02:33:15,840 --> 02:33:18,160
Speaker 10: note at this point that like media perceptions of the

2656
02:33:18,160 --> 02:33:21,560
Speaker 10: Middle East are often formed by people whose understanding is

2657
02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:24,640
Speaker 10: eclipsed by the introductory part of the Wikipedia article on

2658
02:33:24,640 --> 02:33:29,040
Speaker 10: a given topic. Vastly like that's not an exaggeration.

2659
02:33:28,840 --> 02:33:30,520
Speaker 2: Like this, this is this is this is like saying

2660
02:33:30,600 --> 02:33:33,680
Speaker 2: Macron is the leader of like the Quebecy separatists. Yeah,

2661
02:33:34,200 --> 02:33:35,240
Speaker 2: like that kind of ship.

2662
02:33:36,160 --> 02:33:37,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I see that.

2663
02:33:37,120 --> 02:33:41,000
Speaker 1: I do believe Actually that's a separate episode. I will

2664
02:33:41,040 --> 02:33:44,039
Speaker 1: be actually doing that in partnership with Info Wars France.

2665
02:33:45,320 --> 02:33:47,679
Speaker 1: Very excited to see that. Get off the ground.

2666
02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:50,040
Speaker 10: Info wor France. It's a frightening concept.

2667
02:33:51,400 --> 02:33:55,200
Speaker 1: Like genuinely, hey baby, they're turning the frogs. Gay, we

2668
02:33:55,240 --> 02:33:58,760
Speaker 1: gotta do something about that. That was a French.

2669
02:33:58,760 --> 02:34:03,840
Speaker 10: French very any excellent. Sorry. They also kind of didn't

2670
02:34:03,879 --> 02:34:06,440
Speaker 10: understand that SDF and Peshmerga were distinct entities.

2671
02:34:06,480 --> 02:34:09,560
Speaker 1: That appears Jesus Christ wildly different in the yes and

2672
02:34:09,600 --> 02:34:10,880
Speaker 1: combat efficacy too.

2673
02:34:11,200 --> 02:34:14,879
Speaker 10: Yes, yeah, yeah, very just like unless they're talking about

2674
02:34:14,879 --> 02:34:18,400
Speaker 10: the Peshmega Raja I guess, which like exists largely telegram

2675
02:34:18,480 --> 02:34:22,680
Speaker 10: rumors these days. The piece does line up with the

2676
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:25,080
Speaker 10: strategies that we are seeing though. Right there has been

2677
02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:32,160
Speaker 10: significant bombing of IERGC and police facilities along the border

2678
02:34:32,200 --> 02:34:36,360
Speaker 10: with a ruck. There have been and continue to be

2679
02:34:36,879 --> 02:34:40,640
Speaker 10: many Eastern Kurdish groups who are based in a rack

2680
02:34:40,840 --> 02:34:44,560
Speaker 10: right now. Right there has been significant bombing along the

2681
02:34:44,680 --> 02:34:48,760
Speaker 10: road from Halabd to Kamanche right, which would be like

2682
02:34:48,800 --> 02:34:50,440
Speaker 10: a road that you would use if you're planning to

2683
02:34:50,760 --> 02:34:55,199
Speaker 10: move some people in that way. In theory, the KDP

2684
02:34:55,520 --> 02:34:58,320
Speaker 10: and the p UK, so they are the two major

2685
02:34:58,440 --> 02:35:03,280
Speaker 10: Kurdish factions in a rack, have unified their Peshmerger. Peshmerger

2686
02:35:03,720 --> 02:35:06,240
Speaker 10: means those who face death. They are the armed forces

2687
02:35:06,240 --> 02:35:09,440
Speaker 10: that are affiliated to the two Kurdish political parties. This

2688
02:35:09,600 --> 02:35:12,680
Speaker 10: is really kind of a rhetorical construct because they have

2689
02:35:12,760 --> 02:35:15,920
Speaker 10: regional commands which effectively mirror the areas where the KDP

2690
02:35:16,040 --> 02:35:19,480
Speaker 10: and p UK and control anyway, but they have unified payroll,

2691
02:35:19,560 --> 02:35:22,480
Speaker 10: which is interesting. It is also worth noting that pro

2692
02:35:22,560 --> 02:35:27,000
Speaker 10: Iran groups inside Iraq have been targeting Peshmerger with drone attacks.

2693
02:35:27,560 --> 02:35:30,200
Speaker 10: Both sides in its conflict are bombing Iraq cration now,

2694
02:35:30,680 --> 02:35:32,680
Speaker 10: which really does suck for people in Iraq.

2695
02:35:33,120 --> 02:35:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like this conflict has been ever present. Obviously.

2696
02:35:37,720 --> 02:35:41,160
Speaker 1: After the Iraq War, Iran exerted a significant amount of influence.

2697
02:35:41,200 --> 02:35:44,560
Speaker 1: They brought explosively formed penetrators to the Shia militias in

2698
02:35:44,640 --> 02:35:49,560
Speaker 1: the region. Thea cleric Mattadal Sada, who was probably the

2699
02:35:49,560 --> 02:35:53,160
Speaker 1: most successful political figure of the war years and was

2700
02:35:53,400 --> 02:35:56,720
Speaker 1: very heavily involved with Iran. During the fighting in Mosul,

2701
02:35:57,000 --> 02:36:00,640
Speaker 1: you had Peshmurger, you had Iraqi Army soldiers generally from Baghdad,

2702
02:36:00,680 --> 02:36:03,240
Speaker 1: and then you had the PMFS, the Popular Mobilization Forces,

2703
02:36:03,280 --> 02:36:06,879
Speaker 1: and these were all Iran back militias and traveling, especially

2704
02:36:06,879 --> 02:36:08,560
Speaker 1: as I was with Puriage, you had always be really

2705
02:36:08,600 --> 02:36:11,000
Speaker 1: careful in the PMF positions because you never knew what

2706
02:36:11,000 --> 02:36:13,520
Speaker 1: would happen, because again they are enemies. They were tied

2707
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:17,039
Speaker 1: together fighting ISIS, but they are not allied forces and

2708
02:36:17,080 --> 02:36:18,840
Speaker 1: they have a history of fighting each other.

2709
02:36:19,200 --> 02:36:20,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, that was a wild time ket a lot of

2710
02:36:20,959 --> 02:36:22,800
Speaker 10: people who had a lot of beef on the same

2711
02:36:22,840 --> 02:36:25,520
Speaker 10: side of that particular contract. It's also probably worth noting

2712
02:36:25,520 --> 02:36:28,560
Speaker 10: at this point that like it was the Department of Defense,

2713
02:36:28,840 --> 02:36:32,360
Speaker 10: not the CIA that was really driving the boat. Yes,

2714
02:36:32,480 --> 02:36:36,160
Speaker 10: when it came to like supporting the Kurds in Syria, Yeah,

2715
02:36:36,240 --> 02:36:41,080
Speaker 10: the CIA went with the TFSA right, that Turkish Free

2716
02:36:41,120 --> 02:36:43,800
Speaker 10: Syrian Army, which does not have a great record as

2717
02:36:43,800 --> 02:36:46,920
Speaker 10: far as not doing war crimes goes. I also received

2718
02:36:47,080 --> 02:36:51,840
Speaker 10: confirmation today that Barzani and Talibani spoke with Iran's foreign minister,

2719
02:36:52,400 --> 02:36:55,600
Speaker 10: so they've spoken with both Trump and the Iranian foreign minister.

2720
02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:59,520
Speaker 10: Kubad Talibani, who's a deputy Prime minister of Kurdistan, not

2721
02:36:59,560 --> 02:37:02,480
Speaker 10: the same person. It's Baffel Talabani, the leader of the PUK,

2722
02:37:03,120 --> 02:37:06,120
Speaker 10: made a statement to say that the Kurdistan region was

2723
02:37:06,280 --> 02:37:09,480
Speaker 10: not involved in the conflict. I think it's very unlikely

2724
02:37:09,720 --> 02:37:14,959
Speaker 10: that we will see large Peshmrger groups from northern Iraq

2725
02:37:15,080 --> 02:37:18,879
Speaker 10: southern Kurdistan entering Iran in the near future. I do

2726
02:37:18,920 --> 02:37:21,959
Speaker 10: think it's interesting that Reviede got this piece leaked to

2727
02:37:22,040 --> 02:37:26,520
Speaker 10: him because things don't generally get leaked because one person

2728
02:37:26,560 --> 02:37:29,840
Speaker 10: has a crisis of conscience. It does happen sometimes, but

2729
02:37:29,920 --> 02:37:33,200
Speaker 10: in events like this, it is normally a choice. And

2730
02:37:33,959 --> 02:37:37,440
Speaker 10: this particular story leaves the Kurdish people in a very

2731
02:37:37,480 --> 02:37:41,080
Speaker 10: difficult position because it puts a target directly on them

2732
02:37:41,120 --> 02:37:45,200
Speaker 10: for the Iranian regime, right, and they can fight or

2733
02:37:45,240 --> 02:37:47,360
Speaker 10: not fight, but they have been singled out as a

2734
02:37:47,440 --> 02:37:50,680
Speaker 10: group that is going to be the ground forces of

2735
02:37:50,959 --> 02:37:55,040
Speaker 10: this Israeli and US aggression, and what that means is

2736
02:37:55,080 --> 02:37:57,199
Speaker 10: they will be singled out for oppression at home, whether

2737
02:37:57,320 --> 02:37:58,880
Speaker 10: or not they fight. That leaves them in a place

2738
02:37:58,879 --> 02:38:01,320
Speaker 10: where they might have to chose to fight right or

2739
02:38:01,360 --> 02:38:04,119
Speaker 10: they might fight but not through their own choosing. There

2740
02:38:04,200 --> 02:38:08,160
Speaker 10: has been for some time an alliance for some time.

2741
02:38:08,200 --> 02:38:09,920
Speaker 10: I think twenty second of February is when it was

2742
02:38:09,959 --> 02:38:14,199
Speaker 10: made of five Kurdish groups, five Iranian Kurdish groups. These

2743
02:38:14,240 --> 02:38:16,480
Speaker 10: are Rather than saying them like phonetically, I had to

2744
02:38:16,480 --> 02:38:18,160
Speaker 10: read out the initials. People want to look them up

2745
02:38:18,280 --> 02:38:23,440
Speaker 10: pjak Pak, KDPI, and then these two groups have names

2746
02:38:23,440 --> 02:38:25,640
Speaker 10: not initials. There are two of the three parts of

2747
02:38:25,720 --> 02:38:30,680
Speaker 10: Kamala and Hubbat. It is more likely that these groups,

2748
02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:34,640
Speaker 10: specifically KDPI, will be willing to engage. We do know

2749
02:38:34,680 --> 02:38:38,320
Speaker 10: that Trump spoke to Mustafa Hidri that he's a KDPI leader.

2750
02:38:38,840 --> 02:38:42,480
Speaker 10: I have had sources that suggest that some Kurdish and

2751
02:38:42,920 --> 02:38:47,600
Speaker 10: some non Kurdish groups have at least the intention or

2752
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:52,360
Speaker 10: desire to enter Iran and fight. I'm not really comfortable naming,

2753
02:38:52,640 --> 02:38:56,080
Speaker 10: particularly which ones I'd want DEADA sourcing on that. Yeah,

2754
02:38:56,400 --> 02:38:58,760
Speaker 10: what they plan to do is are unclear right. None

2755
02:38:58,760 --> 02:39:02,480
Speaker 10: of these Roja La groups are massive, like numerically, they

2756
02:39:02,560 --> 02:39:07,320
Speaker 10: don't have the manpower. However, ITV reported that weapons have

2757
02:39:07,360 --> 02:39:11,080
Speaker 10: been stuck piled in eastern Kurdistan for a while, and

2758
02:39:11,160 --> 02:39:14,240
Speaker 10: as we saw in in rajavers as we saw in

2759
02:39:14,560 --> 02:39:17,920
Speaker 10: southern Kokistan and the Islamic State times like, their ability

2760
02:39:17,959 --> 02:39:22,080
Speaker 10: to scale up their forces pretty rapidly is something that

2761
02:39:22,120 --> 02:39:24,480
Speaker 10: the Kurds have retained for a long time.

2762
02:39:24,600 --> 02:39:28,440
Speaker 1: Yet an advantage they have over so obviously, it is

2763
02:39:28,480 --> 02:39:30,600
Speaker 1: act true that in the months preceding this there were

2764
02:39:30,680 --> 02:39:34,200
Speaker 1: uprisings in Iran and tens of thousands were killed by

2765
02:39:34,240 --> 02:39:38,000
Speaker 1: the government, and that represents the people who in normal

2766
02:39:38,040 --> 02:39:40,840
Speaker 1: Iranian civil society would have been kind of best positioned

2767
02:39:40,920 --> 02:39:43,480
Speaker 1: to be active and a part of any sort of

2768
02:39:43,520 --> 02:39:46,320
Speaker 1: like government that were to follow. If the current government

2769
02:39:46,360 --> 02:39:49,760
Speaker 1: collapses under the onslaught being directed against it, a lot

2770
02:39:49,760 --> 02:39:52,920
Speaker 1: of those people are dead. That's not really the same

2771
02:39:53,240 --> 02:39:56,000
Speaker 1: case with the Kurdish movement, because at any given time,

2772
02:39:56,080 --> 02:39:58,480
Speaker 1: three quarters of the Kurdish movement is not you know.

2773
02:39:58,720 --> 02:40:01,439
Speaker 10: More or less is outside of a physically present.

2774
02:40:01,280 --> 02:40:03,440
Speaker 1: And this is what happened in Syria too. When you

2775
02:40:03,480 --> 02:40:06,039
Speaker 1: had other parts of the country massively depleted by the

2776
02:40:06,040 --> 02:40:10,080
Speaker 1: slaughter fighting asad in northeast Syria, you were able to

2777
02:40:10,080 --> 02:40:13,080
Speaker 1: have Kurds from southern Turkey and from northern Iraq come

2778
02:40:13,120 --> 02:40:15,440
Speaker 1: in and provide a lot of the backbone of what

2779
02:40:15,560 --> 02:40:18,920
Speaker 1: became these large and effective fighting units that were able

2780
02:40:18,920 --> 02:40:21,840
Speaker 1: to defeat. Isis when you're talking about, like, well, what's

2781
02:40:21,879 --> 02:40:25,160
Speaker 1: going to happen if the government of Iran starts to crumble.

2782
02:40:25,720 --> 02:40:28,520
Speaker 1: There's a pretty good odds that you wind up with

2783
02:40:28,520 --> 02:40:31,440
Speaker 1: a sizeable Kurdish force, and it would very likely be

2784
02:40:31,480 --> 02:40:35,080
Speaker 1: supported by Western at least initially by Western munitions in

2785
02:40:35,160 --> 02:40:38,600
Speaker 1: that chunk of Iran. Like, that's a very possible outcome.

2786
02:40:39,040 --> 02:40:42,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's probably if we do see like

2787
02:40:42,360 --> 02:40:46,240
Speaker 10: continued as strikes for the Iranian state to disappear in

2788
02:40:46,280 --> 02:40:49,879
Speaker 10: its current form, that needs to be a ground element, right, yes,

2789
02:40:49,920 --> 02:40:53,400
Speaker 10: And these are among the most likely people. It is

2790
02:40:53,680 --> 02:40:56,360
Speaker 10: of course important to include the context that the US

2791
02:40:56,480 --> 02:40:59,600
Speaker 10: is less than a month of abandoning its Kurdish allies

2792
02:40:59,600 --> 02:41:01,279
Speaker 10: in Syria, right Yeah.

2793
02:41:01,320 --> 02:41:04,240
Speaker 1: And you should never if you're if you're listening to

2794
02:41:04,280 --> 02:41:06,760
Speaker 1: this and a member of like a foreign militant group

2795
02:41:06,840 --> 02:41:10,160
Speaker 1: that the US is talking to, don't ever trust us?

2796
02:41:10,800 --> 02:41:16,200
Speaker 10: Yeah yeah. Bad friends, yeah yeah, bad friends indeed. Yeah yeah,

2797
02:41:16,520 --> 02:41:17,199
Speaker 10: not friends.

2798
02:41:16,920 --> 02:41:19,440
Speaker 1: At all, bad allies, not friends at all guys that

2799
02:41:19,520 --> 02:41:22,959
Speaker 1: will fuck you the second we can like the second

2800
02:41:23,000 --> 02:41:23,520
Speaker 1: we can.

2801
02:41:24,400 --> 02:41:27,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, I will say that the Americans in Syria was

2802
02:41:27,760 --> 02:41:31,280
Speaker 10: specifically there to fight. Isis they want there to aid

2803
02:41:31,280 --> 02:41:34,560
Speaker 10: in the curty freedom struggled, right, right, and they have

2804
02:41:34,680 --> 02:41:36,640
Speaker 10: been very consistent about not aiding.

2805
02:41:37,000 --> 02:41:40,400
Speaker 1: The other thing about Rojava was it was very explicitly

2806
02:41:40,520 --> 02:41:43,320
Speaker 1: not a state and not an attempt to carve out

2807
02:41:43,360 --> 02:41:46,760
Speaker 1: a separate state, and they were always extremely emphatic about that.

2808
02:41:46,840 --> 02:41:49,720
Speaker 1: So it's a very different situation than anything you're seeing

2809
02:41:50,120 --> 02:41:52,760
Speaker 1: with the regime change the Trump administration is working on.

2810
02:41:53,240 --> 02:41:55,879
Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah, let's take a break here and then we're

2811
02:41:55,879 --> 02:41:56,960
Speaker 10: going to talk about boats.

2812
02:41:58,120 --> 02:41:58,520
Speaker 2: Huzzah.

2813
02:42:11,000 --> 02:42:14,080
Speaker 10: All right, we are back and it's boat time.

2814
02:42:15,040 --> 02:42:17,640
Speaker 1: It boat time, jam stout PhD.

2815
02:42:18,480 --> 02:42:20,160
Speaker 10: Yeah you can't see it, but I'm wearing my little

2816
02:42:20,200 --> 02:42:23,320
Speaker 10: boat hat right now. I've got one of those stripey

2817
02:42:23,320 --> 02:42:28,360
Speaker 10: shirts on. So the United States has sunk a submarine

2818
02:42:28,400 --> 02:42:32,080
Speaker 10: and a total of seventeen Iranian ships, it's claiming. In

2819
02:42:32,120 --> 02:42:34,640
Speaker 10: a briefing, Saint Com said they were going after the

2820
02:42:34,800 --> 02:42:38,360
Speaker 10: entire Iranian navy at the current time. They claimed there

2821
02:42:38,360 --> 02:42:40,760
Speaker 10: are no Iranian ships in the Strait of Hormuz, the

2822
02:42:40,840 --> 02:42:44,320
Speaker 10: Arabian golf, or the Gulf of a Man. This briefing

2823
02:42:44,400 --> 02:42:47,600
Speaker 10: was interesting because they explicitly made the comparison to the

2824
02:42:47,600 --> 02:42:50,920
Speaker 10: invasion of Iraq, not an invasion, not a war that

2825
02:42:50,959 --> 02:42:54,840
Speaker 10: has the greatest rep in recent months and years.

2826
02:42:54,640 --> 02:42:56,439
Speaker 7: Even among conservatives.

2827
02:42:56,480 --> 02:43:00,960
Speaker 10: At this point, Trump has made a thing of well,

2828
02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:03,160
Speaker 10: I mean, Trump wasn't strongly opposed to the war in

2829
02:43:03,160 --> 02:43:05,720
Speaker 10: Iraq right that, I think he has acknowledged that it

2830
02:43:05,720 --> 02:43:08,320
Speaker 10: was a mistake or the way it was conducted was

2831
02:43:08,360 --> 02:43:10,640
Speaker 10: poor at least. What they said here was that the

2832
02:43:11,080 --> 02:43:13,400
Speaker 10: scale of this bombing campaign was twice that of the

2833
02:43:13,440 --> 02:43:16,160
Speaker 10: shock and or bombing campaign that we saw in Iraq.

2834
02:43:16,920 --> 02:43:20,200
Speaker 10: They have so far used cruise missiles, air strikes B two,

2835
02:43:20,280 --> 02:43:23,760
Speaker 10: B one, and BE fifty two bombers, long range precision

2836
02:43:23,760 --> 02:43:26,000
Speaker 10: of strike missiles for the first time. They call them

2837
02:43:26,000 --> 02:43:29,879
Speaker 10: prisms and something called Lucas strones, which are kind of

2838
02:43:29,920 --> 02:43:32,320
Speaker 10: interesting to me. They are the result of the United

2839
02:43:32,360 --> 02:43:37,000
Speaker 10: States capturing and reverse engineering an Iranian Shaheed drone. The

2840
02:43:37,120 --> 02:43:40,040
Speaker 10: Shaheed is like a it sounds like a lawn mower,

2841
02:43:40,280 --> 02:43:43,640
Speaker 10: very distinctive, sound like I've heard them flying over and yeah,

2842
02:43:43,680 --> 02:43:46,480
Speaker 10: but they are one way attract drone. They're essentially a

2843
02:43:46,520 --> 02:43:50,400
Speaker 10: sort of guided munition. They're very cheap, and they've been

2844
02:43:50,520 --> 02:43:53,560
Speaker 10: very effective for Iran and for Russia, who now makes

2845
02:43:53,600 --> 02:43:56,160
Speaker 10: has licensed production of these drones. So it's interesting that

2846
02:43:56,200 --> 02:43:58,879
Speaker 10: the US is openly just saying, yeah, we saw that

2847
02:43:58,920 --> 02:44:00,199
Speaker 10: and we copied it.

2848
02:43:59,800 --> 02:44:02,000
Speaker 1: It's one of the best ideas in warfare of the

2849
02:44:02,080 --> 02:44:05,960
Speaker 1: laste hundred years. It's an incredibly effective platform that seals

2850
02:44:06,040 --> 02:44:08,880
Speaker 1: up an enormous number of holes that have always existed

2851
02:44:09,440 --> 02:44:13,560
Speaker 1: in modern militaries, like the capacity gap that it allows,

2852
02:44:13,640 --> 02:44:17,039
Speaker 1: particularly a country like Aron to seal, right, because with

2853
02:44:17,200 --> 02:44:22,320
Speaker 1: enough shaheeds you effectively can mimic not just the assassination

2854
02:44:22,400 --> 02:44:25,280
Speaker 1: capabilities of like bigger drones, but something like close air

2855
02:44:25,320 --> 02:44:28,080
Speaker 1: support in a way that's very hard to interdect with

2856
02:44:28,200 --> 02:44:29,280
Speaker 1: traditional air power.

2857
02:44:29,480 --> 02:44:29,680
Speaker 10: Right.

2858
02:44:29,920 --> 02:44:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a real sea change, and they seem to

2859
02:44:32,560 --> 02:44:34,440
Speaker 1: be being used effectively right now.

2860
02:44:34,879 --> 02:44:38,440
Speaker 10: Yep, that's cheap. There's tons of them. Ukraine they've used

2861
02:44:38,440 --> 02:44:40,640
Speaker 10: like intercept to drones to intercept them, right, but that

2862
02:44:40,720 --> 02:44:44,480
Speaker 10: requires a lot of time, technology, and human effort.

2863
02:44:44,879 --> 02:44:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think this is probably a good time, James,

2864
02:44:47,959 --> 02:44:50,880
Speaker 1: for me to talk about munitions, because as you noted,

2865
02:44:50,879 --> 02:44:54,600
Speaker 1: we're using a significant amount of high precision projectiles. We're

2866
02:44:54,680 --> 02:44:58,240
Speaker 1: using like advanced weapons systems that are made to allow

2867
02:44:58,360 --> 02:45:01,600
Speaker 1: us to hit targets very precisely that could not be

2868
02:45:01,680 --> 02:45:04,760
Speaker 1: hit with dumb musicians or with less intelligent munitions. The

2869
02:45:04,800 --> 02:45:07,640
Speaker 1: downside of this is that it's hard to make enough

2870
02:45:07,720 --> 02:45:10,680
Speaker 1: munitions to maintain on a war footing in peacetime because

2871
02:45:10,720 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 1: in peacetime it's kind of a waste of money as

2872
02:45:13,360 --> 02:45:17,320
Speaker 1: an industry, and so capitalism doesn't tend to unless there's

2873
02:45:17,480 --> 02:45:21,160
Speaker 1: a war on reward companies for producing the kind of

2874
02:45:21,520 --> 02:45:24,000
Speaker 1: like munitions and number in the kind of number you

2875
02:45:24,000 --> 02:45:27,080
Speaker 1: would need to fight a modern war, and so whenever

2876
02:45:27,120 --> 02:45:29,400
Speaker 1: one does start up, you wind up with this situation.

2877
02:45:29,440 --> 02:45:31,400
Speaker 1: We're seeing this that we saw this with Russia and Ukraine.

2878
02:45:31,400 --> 02:45:33,240
Speaker 1: We're still seeing it in Russia and Ukraine. And we

2879
02:45:33,280 --> 02:45:36,199
Speaker 1: saw it in World War One two where very suddenly

2880
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:40,600
Speaker 1: everyone runs out of ammunition, right and prior to the

2881
02:45:40,720 --> 02:45:43,039
Speaker 1: United States going to I'm going to say, going to

2882
02:45:43,080 --> 02:45:45,480
Speaker 1: war with Iran again, like literally about a week before,

2883
02:45:45,480 --> 02:45:47,480
Speaker 1: there was an article that dropped in the i think

2884
02:45:47,480 --> 02:45:50,680
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal about how Trump's top generals were

2885
02:45:50,680 --> 02:45:52,640
Speaker 1: really worried that the United States did not have enough

2886
02:45:52,720 --> 02:45:57,600
Speaker 1: munitions to sustain conflict with Iran for any significant period

2887
02:45:57,680 --> 02:46:01,119
Speaker 1: of time. And there's immediately in reports as soon as

2888
02:46:01,120 --> 02:46:04,160
Speaker 1: this started that that is, in fact exactly what's fucking happening.

2889
02:46:04,720 --> 02:46:10,240
Speaker 1: There's a good piece on CNN Politics written by Sean Lynngas,

2890
02:46:10,320 --> 02:46:15,040
Speaker 1: Kylie Atwood and Isabelle Khrushudian, and it describes, or at

2891
02:46:15,080 --> 02:46:18,320
Speaker 1: least it talks to conversations with someone at the Pentagon

2892
02:46:18,400 --> 02:46:21,000
Speaker 1: saying that the United States is burning through long range

2893
02:46:21,040 --> 02:46:25,240
Speaker 1: precision guided missiles at an unsustainable rate, and this is

2894
02:46:25,280 --> 02:46:28,560
Speaker 1: not just to attack Iranian positions, but also to stop

2895
02:46:28,640 --> 02:46:33,039
Speaker 1: Iranian ballistic missiles. Quote from that source, Each intercepts represents

2896
02:46:33,080 --> 02:46:36,120
Speaker 1: hundreds of hours of training, readiness, and technology all coming

2897
02:46:36,120 --> 02:46:39,560
Speaker 1: together to work. Is designed so that means you don't

2898
02:46:39,560 --> 02:46:43,480
Speaker 1: have an infinite number of these, whereas Iran is capable

2899
02:46:43,480 --> 02:46:46,120
Speaker 1: of producing a significant number of the ballistic missiles and

2900
02:46:46,160 --> 02:46:49,760
Speaker 1: the drones that these precision munitions are needed to shoot down.

2901
02:46:49,800 --> 02:46:52,560
Speaker 1: Iran's producing something like one hundred ballistic missiles a month,

2902
02:46:52,560 --> 02:46:55,720
Speaker 1: and had a stockpile going into this, we can build

2903
02:46:55,800 --> 02:47:00,039
Speaker 1: six or seven interceptor missiles in a month, right, So

2904
02:47:00,080 --> 02:47:03,879
Speaker 1: obviously we're going into this with stockpiles, and Trump has

2905
02:47:03,920 --> 02:47:07,400
Speaker 1: claimed that US munition stockpiles have never been higher or better,

2906
02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:10,840
Speaker 1: and that the war could go on forever very successfully

2907
02:47:10,879 --> 02:47:14,120
Speaker 1: just using these supplies, but he didn't specify what munitions

2908
02:47:14,160 --> 02:47:18,600
Speaker 1: he was referring to, and all of the information coming

2909
02:47:18,600 --> 02:47:21,119
Speaker 1: out suggests that we are, like the seventh Fleet has

2910
02:47:21,200 --> 02:47:24,880
Speaker 1: basically burned through its supply of advanced munitions. There's been

2911
02:47:24,920 --> 02:47:28,800
Speaker 1: confirmation because the IERGC claims they took out two THAD batteries,

2912
02:47:29,640 --> 02:47:32,720
Speaker 1: and I don't take the IERGC at their word, but

2913
02:47:32,840 --> 02:47:36,080
Speaker 1: we did get local confirmation in at least one case

2914
02:47:36,120 --> 02:47:38,680
Speaker 1: that one of those batteries was disabled, and it seems

2915
02:47:38,800 --> 02:47:42,600
Speaker 1: very likely based on some satellite imagery that both were damaged.

2916
02:47:43,200 --> 02:47:46,280
Speaker 1: How damaged they are is very hard to say. We're

2917
02:47:46,320 --> 02:47:49,440
Speaker 1: talking generally the radar array that you use for the

2918
02:47:49,480 --> 02:47:52,039
Speaker 1: missiles has been hit, but we've only got like eight

2919
02:47:52,160 --> 02:47:54,560
Speaker 1: of these things. These batteries are like not just our

2920
02:47:54,600 --> 02:47:56,920
Speaker 1: most best protection we would have from like submarine based

2921
02:47:57,000 --> 02:48:00,240
Speaker 1: nuclear missiles, but our best anti missile systems period. And

2922
02:48:00,280 --> 02:48:03,920
Speaker 1: we're in the process of peeling away the fat batteries

2923
02:48:03,959 --> 02:48:06,760
Speaker 1: that we've got in Korea to bring into the Middle

2924
02:48:06,800 --> 02:48:09,800
Speaker 1: East to continue to protect Israel and to protect our forces,

2925
02:48:10,360 --> 02:48:12,320
Speaker 1: and the fact that any of them may have been

2926
02:48:12,360 --> 02:48:15,640
Speaker 1: seriously damaged or lost is a serious problem for the

2927
02:48:15,760 --> 02:48:19,880
Speaker 1: United States. I want to continue from that CNN piece

2928
02:48:20,080 --> 02:48:24,760
Speaker 1: here they're interviewing Colonel Mark Gunzinger, who's a retired military

2929
02:48:24,800 --> 02:48:28,200
Speaker 1: colonel and the director of Future Concepts and Capability Assessments

2930
02:48:28,200 --> 02:48:32,320
Speaker 1: at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies. He basically made

2931
02:48:32,360 --> 02:48:34,760
Speaker 1: this claim that, like, since the United States has established

2932
02:48:34,760 --> 02:48:37,360
Speaker 1: air superiority early on in this conflict, quote, there's not

2933
02:48:37,400 --> 02:48:39,520
Speaker 1: such a need for the higher end, very long range

2934
02:48:39,560 --> 02:48:42,920
Speaker 1: standoff weapons. I don't know that I agree with him

2935
02:48:42,959 --> 02:48:45,320
Speaker 1: on this because it seems like we're using some of

2936
02:48:45,360 --> 02:48:48,880
Speaker 1: those munitions now, but he's primarily talking about we don't

2937
02:48:48,920 --> 02:48:53,320
Speaker 1: need to use as discriminating of weapons systems now. Instead

2938
02:48:53,320 --> 02:48:57,360
Speaker 1: of using our super advanced precision guided munitions, we can

2939
02:48:57,440 --> 02:49:00,000
Speaker 1: use stuff like jadams, which we have a lot more.

2940
02:49:00,240 --> 02:49:03,119
Speaker 1: We have a huge stockpile of jade m's of various

2941
02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:06,760
Speaker 1: sizes and small diameter bombs. The problem is that these

2942
02:49:06,800 --> 02:49:10,519
Speaker 1: are not nearly as advanced in terms of their guidance capabilities,

2943
02:49:10,600 --> 02:49:13,960
Speaker 1: and the civilian casualties related from using these are much

2944
02:49:14,040 --> 02:49:17,560
Speaker 1: much higher. So we're hitting a point where we're running

2945
02:49:17,600 --> 02:49:21,480
Speaker 1: out of precision munitions, and it seems very clear that,

2946
02:49:21,520 --> 02:49:24,560
Speaker 1: at least among military thinkers, the attitude is that's fine,

2947
02:49:24,760 --> 02:49:27,800
Speaker 1: because we'll just use these bigger weapons that kill more civilians,

2948
02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:30,480
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's what you should look forward to in

2949
02:49:30,520 --> 02:49:31,920
Speaker 1: the next stages of this conflict.

2950
02:49:32,440 --> 02:49:35,959
Speaker 10: Yeah, talking of I guess the next stages of this conflict.

2951
02:49:36,240 --> 02:49:39,879
Speaker 10: The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, it's supporting that it's been

2952
02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:44,280
Speaker 10: flooded with complaints from troops whose officers believe the operation

2953
02:49:44,400 --> 02:49:47,320
Speaker 10: will bring about the end of days as we're told

2954
02:49:47,440 --> 02:49:48,280
Speaker 10: in the Bible.

2955
02:49:48,360 --> 02:49:48,960
Speaker 1: Well there you go.

2956
02:49:49,040 --> 02:49:53,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah. Here's a quotation from one of their non

2957
02:49:53,080 --> 02:49:56,840
Speaker 10: commissioned officer clients. Quote, this morning, our commander opened up

2958
02:49:56,840 --> 02:49:59,760
Speaker 10: the combat Redness status briefing by urging us not to

2959
02:49:59,760 --> 02:50:01,480
Speaker 10: be a afraid as to what is happening with our

2960
02:50:01,480 --> 02:50:04,240
Speaker 10: combat operations in Iran right now. He urged us to

2961
02:50:04,280 --> 02:50:07,080
Speaker 10: tell our troops this was all part of God's define plan,

2962
02:50:07,200 --> 02:50:10,520
Speaker 10: and he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book

2963
02:50:10,560 --> 02:50:14,720
Speaker 10: of Revelation referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of

2964
02:50:14,840 --> 02:50:20,000
Speaker 10: Jesus Christ. He said that quote President Trump has been

2965
02:50:20,040 --> 02:50:23,000
Speaker 10: anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran,

2966
02:50:23,160 --> 02:50:27,520
Speaker 10: to cause armageddon and mark his return to Earth. I

2967
02:50:27,560 --> 02:50:32,280
Speaker 10: am not a big Bible understander, but Garretton Davis, a

2968
02:50:32,360 --> 02:50:36,080
Speaker 10: regular resident Bible person, please comment if you want to.

2969
02:50:36,440 --> 02:50:39,320
Speaker 10: I don't think this is good, is my take on that.

2970
02:50:39,400 --> 02:50:40,880
Speaker 10: I think it's a great way to be going around

2971
02:50:40,879 --> 02:50:41,560
Speaker 10: foreign policy.

2972
02:50:41,920 --> 02:50:45,080
Speaker 7: No, it's not a good foreign policy blueprint.

2973
02:50:45,640 --> 02:50:49,199
Speaker 1: It might be kind of made biblically accurate, though, I mean.

2974
02:50:49,720 --> 02:50:52,640
Speaker 7: That's the thing, is that the blueprint it is, it is,

2975
02:50:52,840 --> 02:50:55,439
Speaker 7: it is accurate, though I was Trump.

2976
02:50:55,160 --> 02:50:59,320
Speaker 1: Does in fact match a number of descriptions of the Antichrist,

2977
02:50:59,400 --> 02:51:01,560
Speaker 1: and it is possible that what we're doing in Iran

2978
02:51:01,800 --> 02:51:03,440
Speaker 1: ends in the apocalypse.

2979
02:51:03,840 --> 02:51:09,080
Speaker 10: So you know, my understanding is this hinges on a

2980
02:51:09,080 --> 02:51:10,240
Speaker 10: certain color of cat.

2981
02:51:10,280 --> 02:51:12,240
Speaker 2: The red hypher. This is the whole thing. We had

2982
02:51:12,240 --> 02:51:13,160
Speaker 2: a baling we.

2983
02:51:13,200 --> 02:51:16,200
Speaker 10: Made it in texas'er. Yes, yes, this is this is

2984
02:51:16,200 --> 02:51:19,640
Speaker 10: one of the first, the first like American like subculture

2985
02:51:19,680 --> 02:51:21,800
Speaker 10: things I ever engaged with it from like when I

2986
02:51:22,200 --> 02:51:23,960
Speaker 10: got the Internet at school and you could go into

2987
02:51:23,959 --> 02:51:25,720
Speaker 10: the computer lab and look at stuff I learned about

2988
02:51:25,720 --> 02:51:28,240
Speaker 10: if people trying to make a red heifer, right, like, yeah,

2989
02:51:28,320 --> 02:51:31,320
Speaker 10: that will bring about the apocalypse is cow. Yeah, fascinating stuff.

2990
02:51:31,920 --> 02:51:33,600
Speaker 1: Very normal, very normal.

2991
02:51:34,640 --> 02:51:37,200
Speaker 10: That's all I've got. Hopefully send us pictures of your

2992
02:51:37,240 --> 02:51:39,240
Speaker 10: cataly I you've got one of the appropriate color, and

2993
02:51:39,240 --> 02:51:40,640
Speaker 10: that will be a sign that it's all over.

2994
02:51:41,080 --> 02:51:43,520
Speaker 7: I mean, things in Iran do not seem to be

2995
02:51:43,600 --> 02:51:47,080
Speaker 7: winding down. If anything, they holding or ramping up.

2996
02:51:47,520 --> 02:51:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2997
02:51:48,360 --> 02:51:51,360
Speaker 7: On Tuesday, Mark Rubio said, quote, in the next few

2998
02:51:51,400 --> 02:51:53,600
Speaker 7: hours and days, you're going to really begin to perceive

2999
02:51:53,600 --> 02:51:57,160
Speaker 7: a change in the scope and the intensity of these attacks,

3000
02:51:57,520 --> 02:52:01,160
Speaker 7: as frankly, the two most powerful air forces in the

3001
02:52:01,160 --> 02:52:04,880
Speaker 7: world take apart this terroristic regime and defang it.

3002
02:52:05,480 --> 02:52:08,959
Speaker 2: Quote that, by the way, was also proceeded immediately by

3003
02:52:09,040 --> 02:52:12,800
Speaker 2: him saying We're going to unleash Chang which is a

3004
02:52:13,120 --> 02:52:18,400
Speaker 2: completely unhinged thing from the old old like anti communists

3005
02:52:18,400 --> 02:52:20,840
Speaker 2: far right where they're like, we're gonna unleash Shanghai shack

3006
02:52:20,879 --> 02:52:22,680
Speaker 2: and he's going to retake China and kill everyone. So

3007
02:52:22,720 --> 02:52:25,720
Speaker 2: that's that's great, that's that's fun, extremely normal.

3008
02:52:25,840 --> 02:52:28,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a John Bircher right there.

3009
02:52:28,200 --> 02:52:29,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, wow.

3010
02:52:30,560 --> 02:52:34,400
Speaker 7: And after a closed door Senate hearing briefing the Senate

3011
02:52:34,520 --> 02:52:38,320
Speaker 7: on actions in Iran, Senator Bluementhal said, quote, I am

3012
02:52:38,320 --> 02:52:41,480
Speaker 7: more fearful than ever after this briefing that we may

3013
02:52:41,520 --> 02:52:43,240
Speaker 7: be putting boots on the ground.

3014
02:52:44,320 --> 02:52:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to. You can't actually stop the regime

3015
02:52:47,640 --> 02:52:48,280
Speaker 1: without doing that.

3016
02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:52,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, even that like Trump model, which is a Syria model,

3017
02:52:52,240 --> 02:52:56,320
Speaker 10: right of a relatively limited footprint with a partner for US. Yeah,

3018
02:52:56,400 --> 02:53:00,240
Speaker 10: it's still like American people died in Syria.

3019
02:53:00,560 --> 02:53:03,840
Speaker 1: Well, and unfortunately, I think they're also looking to Libya. Right.

3020
02:53:04,920 --> 02:53:07,640
Speaker 1: Initially we're hoping it would be something like that, But

3021
02:53:07,680 --> 02:53:10,640
Speaker 1: the thing is in Libya, you already had a situation

3022
02:53:10,680 --> 02:53:13,920
Speaker 1: where there was a massive army a raid against the

3023
02:53:13,959 --> 02:53:17,440
Speaker 1: dictator who was holding them back via air power. So

3024
02:53:17,560 --> 02:53:19,959
Speaker 1: being able to stop the air power was able to

3025
02:53:20,200 --> 02:53:24,200
Speaker 1: was enough to sign the regime's death warrant. And obviously

3026
02:53:24,240 --> 02:53:27,640
Speaker 1: the failure of NATO to do anything to help Libya

3027
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:30,560
Speaker 1: in the wake of that has been awful. But it's

3028
02:53:30,560 --> 02:53:34,560
Speaker 1: totally different in Iran. Like it's the Iranian people, the

3029
02:53:34,920 --> 02:53:39,560
Speaker 1: Ranian like resistance. The Iranian protests had not taken territory.

3030
02:53:39,600 --> 02:53:43,680
Speaker 1: They had not swung large chunks of the Iranian military.

3031
02:53:44,080 --> 02:53:46,800
Speaker 1: The military and the regime were still in control of

3032
02:53:46,840 --> 02:53:49,959
Speaker 1: the country and nothing has changed in that regard. So

3033
02:53:50,080 --> 02:53:52,120
Speaker 1: if you're going to knock out the regime, you have

3034
02:53:52,200 --> 02:53:54,280
Speaker 1: to send in the fucking marines. That's the only way,

3035
02:53:54,600 --> 02:53:56,560
Speaker 1: and that's I think what's going to happen at some point.

3036
02:53:57,680 --> 02:54:01,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's going to be uh the next few days,

3037
02:54:01,120 --> 02:54:03,200
Speaker 10: probably by the time you're hearing this. By the way,

3038
02:54:03,280 --> 02:54:05,959
Speaker 10: just as we're recording this, hopefully this has left the

3039
02:54:05,959 --> 02:54:10,040
Speaker 10: news cycle. Several news outlets have published the Kurdish paramilitary

3040
02:54:10,120 --> 02:54:12,560
Speaker 10: forces are streaming across the border into a ruck. That's

3041
02:54:12,600 --> 02:54:15,920
Speaker 10: not true. Each of those groups who are claiming are

3042
02:54:16,080 --> 02:54:18,879
Speaker 10: doing that have denied it. There is going to be

3043
02:54:19,000 --> 02:54:22,600
Speaker 10: a lot of misinformation, yeah, in the next few weeks,

3044
02:54:23,360 --> 02:54:26,720
Speaker 10: and you should be very careful about where you are

3045
02:54:26,840 --> 02:54:30,680
Speaker 10: sourcing your news. Yeah. I just wanted to make that

3046
02:54:30,800 --> 02:54:31,240
Speaker 10: very clear.

3047
02:54:31,480 --> 02:54:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first war, potentially major war that

3048
02:54:36,600 --> 02:54:40,400
Speaker 1: started while already in place, was an entire system that

3049
02:54:40,520 --> 02:54:44,640
Speaker 1: monetized people getting disinformation about that war to go viral.

3050
02:54:45,120 --> 02:54:45,280
Speaker 2: Right.

3051
02:54:45,360 --> 02:54:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously that has impacted things in Ukraine. Later in

3052
02:54:48,840 --> 02:54:52,520
Speaker 1: Palestine and Palestine too, but when the invasion started, those

3053
02:54:52,560 --> 02:54:55,960
Speaker 1: were not like it. Really it came into being over

3054
02:54:56,000 --> 02:54:59,000
Speaker 1: what happened in Palestine. You're right, Garrison, Yeah, but it's

3055
02:54:59,000 --> 02:55:02,640
Speaker 1: now in complete form at the start of the conflict.

3056
02:55:02,840 --> 02:55:03,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3057
02:55:03,080 --> 02:55:06,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a whole like industry, you know, across many

3058
02:55:06,640 --> 02:55:11,480
Speaker 7: different countries, so misinformation to win money via the blue

3059
02:55:11,560 --> 02:55:14,280
Speaker 7: check system on Twitter, which is still used for you know,

3060
02:55:14,360 --> 02:55:18,080
Speaker 7: news sourcing across the world in the case of breaking events.

3061
02:55:18,760 --> 02:55:23,480
Speaker 2: So speaking of industry, so one of the other consequences

3062
02:55:23,680 --> 02:55:29,680
Speaker 2: of this war has been effectively the end of trade

3063
02:55:29,720 --> 02:55:32,480
Speaker 2: and passage to the straight offour Moose, which is extremely

3064
02:55:32,520 --> 02:55:37,080
Speaker 2: critical lifeline for the world economy. I'm going to quote

3065
02:55:37,120 --> 02:55:40,920
Speaker 2: here from Al Jazeera quote a commander in Iran's Revolutionary

3066
02:55:40,959 --> 02:55:43,480
Speaker 2: Guard course set on Monday, but the strait was quote

3067
02:55:43,520 --> 02:55:46,280
Speaker 2: closed and that any vessel attempting to pass through the

3068
02:55:46,320 --> 02:55:51,600
Speaker 2: water way would be set quote a blaze. Now, for CNBC,

3069
02:55:52,000 --> 02:55:55,880
Speaker 2: there's about thirteen million barrels of oil a day that

3070
02:55:56,040 --> 02:55:58,240
Speaker 2: flows through the strade of four Moose's thirty one percent

3071
02:55:58,280 --> 02:56:01,920
Speaker 2: of all sea worn crude flowed. The total like impacted

3072
02:56:02,120 --> 02:56:06,600
Speaker 2: oil production and distribution from this is about it's about

3073
02:56:06,640 --> 02:56:09,200
Speaker 2: a fifth of the world's oil supply total that is

3074
02:56:09,200 --> 02:56:12,959
Speaker 2: being impacted by this. Liquefied natural gas is also being

3075
02:56:13,000 --> 02:56:17,840
Speaker 2: massively impacted because of yeah, the places where a whole

3076
02:56:17,840 --> 02:56:23,440
Speaker 2: bunch of natural gas and oil are produced. This is

3077
02:56:23,840 --> 02:56:27,760
Speaker 2: a very, very significant blow to the world's energy supply

3078
02:56:27,879 --> 02:56:30,000
Speaker 2: and one of the reasons why, even if you don't

3079
02:56:30,000 --> 02:56:34,400
Speaker 2: care like the US does and about, you know, obliterating

3080
02:56:34,640 --> 02:56:38,720
Speaker 2: Ibronian schoolgirls with bombs, this war is a terrible idea

3081
02:56:39,240 --> 02:56:41,640
Speaker 2: because you're suddenly losing access to a fifth of the

3082
02:56:41,680 --> 02:56:46,360
Speaker 2: world's oil supply. Now, Trump has repeatedly said that this

3083
02:56:46,560 --> 02:56:50,440
Speaker 2: strait is not open. The RGC has repeatedly said that

3084
02:56:50,560 --> 02:56:55,080
Speaker 2: it is closed. Trump also yesterday that we're recording this

3085
02:56:55,160 --> 02:56:58,600
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, said that the US will escort tankers if

3086
02:56:58,640 --> 02:57:01,920
Speaker 2: necessary through the straight with US Navy ships. The other

3087
02:57:02,080 --> 02:57:04,760
Speaker 2: major issue here is that no insurance company will ensure

3088
02:57:04,800 --> 02:57:07,000
Speaker 2: any ship going through this, because why on earth would

3089
02:57:07,040 --> 02:57:10,680
Speaker 2: you do that. And Trump has also ordered the government

3090
02:57:10,920 --> 02:57:15,920
Speaker 2: to ensure these tankers. And this has stopped the massive

3091
02:57:16,000 --> 02:57:18,720
Speaker 2: rise in oil prices a little bit that was happening

3092
02:57:18,720 --> 02:57:20,960
Speaker 2: at the beginning of at the beginning of the conflict. However,

3093
02:57:21,320 --> 02:57:25,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why it stopped the rise in oil prices,

3094
02:57:25,080 --> 02:57:30,360
Speaker 2: because this won't work. You can't just escort oil tankers

3095
02:57:30,480 --> 02:57:33,840
Speaker 2: through the Strait with American battleships and have them not Like,

3096
02:57:34,040 --> 02:57:35,840
Speaker 2: do you know how big an oil tanker is and

3097
02:57:35,920 --> 02:57:38,880
Speaker 2: how slow they are? Like, there's no way militarily that

3098
02:57:38,959 --> 02:57:41,520
Speaker 2: you can actually move oil tankers through here. You just can't.

3099
02:57:41,840 --> 02:57:45,280
Speaker 2: It's too easy to hit with literally any munition. So

3100
02:57:45,840 --> 02:57:48,959
Speaker 2: the sort of American markets don't seem to have figured

3101
02:57:48,959 --> 02:57:52,720
Speaker 2: out that you obviously cannot escort oil tankers through the

3102
02:57:52,720 --> 02:57:56,200
Speaker 2: trade of permus. Where people have figured this out are

3103
02:57:56,280 --> 02:58:01,760
Speaker 2: the Asian markets, particularly South Korea and Thailand, where both

3104
02:58:01,800 --> 02:58:04,320
Speaker 2: of their stock index has had their circuit breakers triggered,

3105
02:58:04,360 --> 02:58:06,480
Speaker 2: which is the emergency system may have in place when

3106
02:58:06,560 --> 02:58:10,280
Speaker 2: the market is collapsing too fast all trading halts. South

3107
02:58:10,360 --> 02:58:16,160
Speaker 2: Korea's index lost twelve point zero six percent yesterday, which

3108
02:58:16,200 --> 02:58:20,720
Speaker 2: is the single largest drop that the market has ever experienced. Yeah,

3109
02:58:20,760 --> 02:58:24,039
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's really bad. The Chinese indexes have

3110
02:58:24,040 --> 02:58:27,920
Speaker 2: been okay, but both Japan and Taiwan we're down between

3111
02:58:27,959 --> 02:58:30,200
Speaker 2: three and four percent, which is still also quite bad.

3112
02:58:31,000 --> 02:58:34,600
Speaker 2: Now South Korea and Thailand specifically, the reason that these

3113
02:58:34,600 --> 02:58:39,560
Speaker 2: two countries are having just sort of apocalyptic market collapses

3114
02:58:39,600 --> 02:58:42,600
Speaker 2: is that these two countries are extremely reliant on imported oil.

3115
02:58:43,160 --> 02:58:46,400
Speaker 2: And you know, there's this tendency to think about oil

3116
02:58:46,480 --> 02:58:49,200
Speaker 2: as just liquid money, and it's not. You do actually

3117
02:58:49,200 --> 02:58:51,920
Speaker 2: have to use it to power things, and a stificant

3118
02:58:51,920 --> 02:58:54,400
Speaker 2: portion of the of both the Thai and the South

3119
02:58:54,480 --> 02:58:57,280
Speaker 2: Korean economy are sort of heavy industrial things that require

3120
02:58:57,320 --> 02:59:01,880
Speaker 2: this oil. These countries are now in very dire straits.

3121
02:59:02,520 --> 02:59:06,119
Speaker 2: And the only way that this could stop is if

3122
02:59:06,160 --> 02:59:09,400
Speaker 2: somehow Trump wins the war very very quickly and be

3123
02:59:09,400 --> 02:59:11,160
Speaker 2: able to reopen the Straight, which I don't think is

3124
02:59:11,160 --> 02:59:15,039
Speaker 2: particularly likely. So this is probably just going to intensify. Yeah,

3125
02:59:15,200 --> 02:59:17,119
Speaker 2: you could call it a dire straight.

3126
02:59:18,280 --> 02:59:21,840
Speaker 1: Ah Garrison, you've you've brought up my favorite band, of

3127
02:59:21,840 --> 02:59:25,920
Speaker 1: which I am aware of one of their songs, great band,

3128
02:59:26,160 --> 02:59:28,440
Speaker 1: heard the one song of theirs, and I know one.

3129
02:59:28,320 --> 02:59:30,520
Speaker 10: Of the songs that has a slur in it. There

3130
02:59:30,520 --> 02:59:31,920
Speaker 10: are better songs, hey.

3131
02:59:31,800 --> 02:59:34,840
Speaker 1: No, but they stopped using the slur and more and more, okay, Andre,

3132
02:59:35,800 --> 02:59:38,039
Speaker 1: But also the slur was never it was never a

3133
02:59:38,080 --> 02:59:42,120
Speaker 1: slur directed at the audience. They were talking from the

3134
02:59:42,200 --> 02:59:46,760
Speaker 1: perspective of a bigot insulting them. Yeah, yeah, so it's

3135
02:59:46,840 --> 02:59:47,959
Speaker 1: I think anyway.

3136
02:59:48,280 --> 02:59:51,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, in terms of songs, were slurs not the worst

3137
02:59:51,720 --> 02:59:55,040
Speaker 10: speaking of dire straights, I'm cutting the white people off,

3138
02:59:55,040 --> 02:59:55,800
Speaker 10: talking about.

3139
02:59:57,600 --> 03:00:00,680
Speaker 2: Are cutting it off? Speak speaking of being in dire

3140
03:00:00,720 --> 03:00:04,200
Speaker 2: strait Spain in a well. When I wrote this script,

3141
03:00:04,200 --> 03:00:06,440
Speaker 2: I said, a rare moment of bravery. I should give

3142
03:00:06,480 --> 03:00:09,760
Speaker 2: them slightly more credit than that, but in a moment

3143
03:00:09,840 --> 03:00:14,520
Speaker 2: of genuine bravery and principle. The Spanish government has refused

3144
03:00:14,560 --> 03:00:17,520
Speaker 2: to allow the US to use its air bases to

3145
03:00:17,560 --> 03:00:20,800
Speaker 2: conduct the war in Iran. Yeah, these are American air

3146
03:00:20,800 --> 03:00:23,200
Speaker 2: bases in Spain. This has led to a bunch of

3147
03:00:23,280 --> 03:00:26,600
Speaker 2: assets being moved out of Spain. Trump has responded to

3148
03:00:26,640 --> 03:00:29,720
Speaker 2: this by I was going to quote out to Zerra,

3149
03:00:31,920 --> 03:00:34,560
Speaker 2: quote round the Zeerra. He said he had told his

3150
03:00:34,840 --> 03:00:37,520
Speaker 2: he had told his Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bestet,

3151
03:00:38,000 --> 03:00:41,560
Speaker 2: to quote cut off all dealings with Spain. We're going

3152
03:00:41,560 --> 03:00:43,560
Speaker 2: to cut off all trade with Spain. We don't want

3153
03:00:43,560 --> 03:00:45,680
Speaker 2: anything to do with Spain, the president said.

3154
03:00:46,400 --> 03:00:49,360
Speaker 1: The Trump is taking away your your mona Berrico like

3155
03:00:49,520 --> 03:00:52,760
Speaker 1: you have to. We have to stop this, there will

3156
03:00:52,800 --> 03:00:53,560
Speaker 1: be no top.

3157
03:00:53,400 --> 03:00:53,840
Speaker 2: Most of them.

3158
03:00:53,959 --> 03:00:56,440
Speaker 1: Where else are we going to get the highest quality

3159
03:00:56,520 --> 03:00:57,320
Speaker 1: smoked meats?

3160
03:00:58,200 --> 03:01:01,400
Speaker 10: Yeah? So will that forever be worse. It's not really

3161
03:01:01,440 --> 03:01:05,120
Speaker 10: possible to do this, right because Spain is in the EU. Yeah,

3162
03:01:05,280 --> 03:01:06,440
Speaker 10: don't have internal boards.

3163
03:01:06,480 --> 03:01:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it shouldn't be possible to do this.

3164
03:01:09,160 --> 03:01:10,240
Speaker 1: I knows.

3165
03:01:10,280 --> 03:01:13,720
Speaker 2: I think it's like probably, I'm leaning towards about ninety

3166
03:01:13,760 --> 03:01:16,000
Speaker 2: five to five that Trump just forgets about this. So

3167
03:01:16,000 --> 03:01:19,920
Speaker 2: there's a five percent chance there's some completely hitherto unused,

3168
03:01:20,120 --> 03:01:24,000
Speaker 2: unhinged national security like power that was passed by John

3169
03:01:24,080 --> 03:01:27,840
Speaker 2: wu specifically. But I don't know. We're back to Calvin

3170
03:01:27,840 --> 03:01:30,119
Speaker 2: ball trade policy. He's just saying stuff I was wrong

3171
03:01:30,200 --> 03:01:31,720
Speaker 2: last week. They're just making shit up.

3172
03:01:31,800 --> 03:01:35,240
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing like that this shows that's may

3173
03:01:35,240 --> 03:01:39,120
Speaker 1: be optimistic, is how different the climate is like this,

3174
03:01:39,440 --> 03:01:41,959
Speaker 1: the social climate is in the United States as opposed

3175
03:01:42,040 --> 03:01:44,160
Speaker 1: during the Iraq War, where Like, if this has happened

3176
03:01:44,200 --> 03:01:46,680
Speaker 1: during the Iraq War, you would have had people like

3177
03:01:46,760 --> 03:01:49,480
Speaker 1: renaming Spanish dishes freedom fucking.

3178
03:01:49,240 --> 03:01:50,279
Speaker 6: Die or whatever.

3179
03:01:51,720 --> 03:01:53,080
Speaker 1: You would have had, there would have been like a

3180
03:01:53,200 --> 03:01:56,000
Speaker 1: social there's not There's been no cultural backlash against Spain

3181
03:01:56,000 --> 03:01:57,760
Speaker 1: in the United States that I that I've seen that

3182
03:01:57,800 --> 03:01:58,520
Speaker 1: as any kind.

3183
03:01:58,360 --> 03:02:01,120
Speaker 2: Of juice, and you know, and just to say like

3184
03:02:01,360 --> 03:02:03,360
Speaker 2: one serious than before we wrap this up, Like the

3185
03:02:03,400 --> 03:02:07,120
Speaker 2: approval rating for this war is sub fifty percent right now. Yeah,

3186
03:02:07,160 --> 03:02:09,800
Speaker 2: it's only going to get worse because worl approof of

3187
03:02:09,879 --> 03:02:12,800
Speaker 2: ratings are always the highest when they first start. It's

3188
03:02:12,879 --> 03:02:17,000
Speaker 2: already sub fifty Everyone hates this. I want to wrap

3189
03:02:17,080 --> 03:02:19,680
Speaker 2: this up before we go to ads by saying the

3190
03:02:19,680 --> 03:02:22,760
Speaker 2: administration had also claimed that Spain had, because of the

3191
03:02:22,760 --> 03:02:27,560
Speaker 2: threat of economic pressure whatever, had agreed to cooperate, and

3192
03:02:27,600 --> 03:02:29,520
Speaker 2: the Spanish government immediately said, no, we didn't. What are

3193
03:02:29,560 --> 03:02:32,640
Speaker 2: you talking about. Yeah, so they're just lying about stuff again.

3194
03:02:32,680 --> 03:02:33,119
Speaker 2: It's great.

3195
03:02:33,440 --> 03:02:36,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, whoo ooh fantastic.

3196
03:02:36,400 --> 03:02:37,440
Speaker 7: You know what else is great?

3197
03:02:38,040 --> 03:02:39,400
Speaker 10: What's that? Garrison America?

3198
03:02:39,440 --> 03:02:39,720
Speaker 12: Again?

3199
03:02:40,160 --> 03:02:51,040
Speaker 7: This brief ad break before we return for even more news.

3200
03:02:56,720 --> 03:03:00,320
Speaker 7: All right, we are back. Two final story used to

3201
03:03:00,320 --> 03:03:04,920
Speaker 7: cover this episode. Last week, the Kansas State Legislature passed

3202
03:03:05,000 --> 03:03:09,959
Speaker 7: new law, overriding Governor Laura Kelly's veto, invalidating state issued

3203
03:03:10,040 --> 03:03:15,640
Speaker 7: driver's license with updated gender markers, requiring quote Kansas issued

3204
03:03:15,720 --> 03:03:18,960
Speaker 7: driver's license and identification cards reflect the credential holders sex

3205
03:03:19,000 --> 03:03:23,720
Speaker 7: at birth unquote. After this law was passed, the state

3206
03:03:23,840 --> 03:03:26,280
Speaker 7: sent letters to trans people informing them their license was

3207
03:03:26,320 --> 03:03:31,080
Speaker 7: now invalid, effective immediately, including to at least one transperson

3208
03:03:31,120 --> 03:03:34,920
Speaker 7: who did not change their gender marker but recently changed

3209
03:03:34,920 --> 03:03:38,240
Speaker 7: her legal name. State officials say about one thousand and

3210
03:03:38,440 --> 03:03:43,480
Speaker 7: seven hundred license holders were affected. The law also invalidates

3211
03:03:43,560 --> 03:03:46,720
Speaker 7: updated birth certificates and prohibits anyone born in Kansas from

3212
03:03:46,800 --> 03:03:49,800
Speaker 7: updating the gender marker on state issued per certificates and

3213
03:03:50,000 --> 03:03:54,359
Speaker 7: driver's license in the future. This same law also prohibits

3214
03:03:54,360 --> 03:03:57,680
Speaker 7: trans people from using the public restrooms on government property

3215
03:03:57,760 --> 03:04:02,000
Speaker 7: that alignce with their gender, and allows private citizens to

3216
03:04:02,240 --> 03:04:05,440
Speaker 7: sue someone suspected of being trans in the quote unquote

3217
03:04:05,480 --> 03:04:09,880
Speaker 7: wrong restroom in a government building for damages totaling one

3218
03:04:09,959 --> 03:04:14,640
Speaker 7: thousand dollars. Two trans Kensons and the a Solu have

3219
03:04:14,640 --> 03:04:17,440
Speaker 7: filed a lawsuit claiming the new law SB two four

3220
03:04:17,480 --> 03:04:22,039
Speaker 7: four violates the Kansas Constitutions protections for personal autonomy, privacy,

3221
03:04:22,360 --> 03:04:25,280
Speaker 7: the quality under the law, due process, and freedom of speech.

3222
03:04:25,800 --> 03:04:29,400
Speaker 1: Yep, no, great, No, it's obviously is a violation of

3223
03:04:29,440 --> 03:04:30,160
Speaker 1: all those things.

3224
03:04:30,720 --> 03:04:33,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's also just word, noting

3225
03:04:33,240 --> 03:04:35,600
Speaker 2: that this is part of a trend we've been seeing

3226
03:04:35,600 --> 03:04:38,480
Speaker 2: of just this is basically what used to be a

3227
03:04:38,480 --> 03:04:42,040
Speaker 2: whole bunch of different bills like compiled into one. Right,

3228
03:04:42,080 --> 03:04:44,360
Speaker 2: this is like a bounty bill, this is like a ban.

3229
03:04:44,560 --> 03:04:47,160
Speaker 2: This is instead of having legislative fights O for all

3230
03:04:47,200 --> 03:04:49,120
Speaker 2: the different elements, they're just pushing them all through in

3231
03:04:49,200 --> 03:04:52,880
Speaker 2: one package, which has been working for them.

3232
03:04:52,680 --> 03:04:57,080
Speaker 7: Very like clear like egregious violation of rights. And now

3233
03:04:57,120 --> 03:04:59,280
Speaker 7: there's a Now you have people in a situation where

3234
03:04:59,320 --> 03:05:02,760
Speaker 7: they could have their passport being invalid, their birth certificate

3235
03:05:02,760 --> 03:05:05,320
Speaker 7: being invalid, and their state driveralisms being invalid.

3236
03:05:05,400 --> 03:05:06,840
Speaker 2: Yep, it's a.

3237
03:05:06,640 --> 03:05:10,280
Speaker 7: Very precarious situation. Yeah, that we will watch to see

3238
03:05:10,280 --> 03:05:14,080
Speaker 7: the followut of in the next few weeks to months. Finally,

3239
03:05:14,640 --> 03:05:18,840
Speaker 7: the Texas primary election that happened on Tuesday, some big

3240
03:05:18,879 --> 03:05:22,600
Speaker 7: news coming out of that the Republican Senate primary was

3241
03:05:22,640 --> 03:05:26,640
Speaker 7: going to advance to a runoff election between incumbent John

3242
03:05:26,720 --> 03:05:30,520
Speaker 7: Cornyn and Attorney General Ken Paxton. Though this runoff could

3243
03:05:30,600 --> 03:05:37,800
Speaker 7: be disrupted because Trump just signaled that he will endorse Coronin,

3244
03:05:38,760 --> 03:05:42,440
Speaker 7: leading many to suspect that Paxton may drop out of

3245
03:05:42,480 --> 03:05:45,039
Speaker 7: the race. This is still unclear, but it was a

3246
03:05:45,240 --> 03:05:48,000
Speaker 7: very close race between those two and one other person

3247
03:05:48,040 --> 03:05:50,960
Speaker 7: that was going to go to a runoff due to redistricting.

3248
03:05:51,120 --> 03:05:55,440
Speaker 7: Two Democratic incumbents House Representatives Al Green and Christian Menefee

3249
03:05:55,879 --> 03:05:58,280
Speaker 7: battled over a new district and a close race that

3250
03:05:58,360 --> 03:06:01,119
Speaker 7: will now also go to a runof off sim Goo's

3251
03:06:01,160 --> 03:06:05,280
Speaker 7: representative Julie Johnson, and former Representative Colin Alred, who dropped

3252
03:06:05,280 --> 03:06:07,520
Speaker 7: out of the Senate race to run for this newly

3253
03:06:07,560 --> 03:06:11,240
Speaker 7: redrawn district. Neither of these two were able to reach

3254
03:06:11,240 --> 03:06:13,720
Speaker 7: a majority, so that race will also head to a

3255
03:06:13,800 --> 03:06:19,480
Speaker 7: run off. Incumbent Dan Crenshaw lost the primary, yeah, to

3256
03:06:19,560 --> 03:06:23,240
Speaker 7: the Republican challenger Steve Toath, who was backed by the

3257
03:06:23,240 --> 03:06:26,440
Speaker 7: party's far right an Tucker Carlson is significantly to the

3258
03:06:26,560 --> 03:06:30,000
Speaker 7: right of Dan Crenshaw. Yeah, he's as fun as it

3259
03:06:30,040 --> 03:06:33,000
Speaker 7: is to see Crenshaw go down. He's getting replaced by

3260
03:06:33,040 --> 03:06:34,560
Speaker 7: someone that is actually worse.

3261
03:06:34,920 --> 03:06:37,359
Speaker 1: It's not good, it's just kind of funny.

3262
03:06:38,080 --> 03:06:41,640
Speaker 2: We replaced Hitler with Hitler too. Yeah, great things happening.

3263
03:06:41,959 --> 03:06:45,320
Speaker 10: Because he specifically had spoken out about some Trump policies, right, like.

3264
03:06:45,600 --> 03:06:48,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, he had gone more independent on some issues rather

3265
03:06:49,000 --> 03:06:53,560
Speaker 7: than like keytoeing to the to the current Republican line,

3266
03:06:53,879 --> 03:06:56,760
Speaker 7: and that opened him up to attacks from the right. Yeah,

3267
03:06:57,160 --> 03:06:59,600
Speaker 7: but the big story of the night is the Democratic

3268
03:06:59,600 --> 03:07:03,000
Speaker 7: Senate I'm Mary, in which Texas State House Rep. James

3269
03:07:03,000 --> 03:07:06,520
Speaker 7: Tallerco is projected to be us A presentative for Texas

3270
03:07:06,640 --> 03:07:09,760
Speaker 7: Jasmin Crockett, who previously told tall Rico that she would

3271
03:07:09,800 --> 03:07:12,600
Speaker 7: not run for the Senate before entering the race late

3272
03:07:12,760 --> 03:07:17,400
Speaker 7: in December. Crockett did not concede the night of the election.

3273
03:07:17,600 --> 03:07:21,000
Speaker 7: Has since conceded, but did not concede election night, citing

3274
03:07:21,120 --> 03:07:25,000
Speaker 7: issues at voting precincts and dueling court orders that sowed

3275
03:07:25,080 --> 03:07:31,000
Speaker 7: confusion come election day. Republicans in Dallas County and Williamson

3276
03:07:31,080 --> 03:07:36,320
Speaker 7: County switched the rules from county wide centralized polling locations

3277
03:07:36,520 --> 03:07:39,959
Speaker 7: to an assigned precinct system where voters can only cast

3278
03:07:40,000 --> 03:07:44,080
Speaker 7: their ballots at one specific location. After reports of people

3279
03:07:44,120 --> 03:07:47,480
Speaker 7: being turned away from their regular polling locations on election

3280
03:07:47,600 --> 03:07:50,200
Speaker 7: day and being told they had to travel to their

3281
03:07:50,200 --> 03:07:53,600
Speaker 7: assigned precinct to cast their ballot, both Crockett and tall

3282
03:07:53,680 --> 03:07:57,360
Speaker 7: Rico advocated to expand voting hours in these counties to

3283
03:07:57,440 --> 03:08:00,760
Speaker 7: compensate for the confusion and ensure all the votes intended

3284
03:08:00,760 --> 03:08:03,600
Speaker 7: to be cast on election day would be counted. Judges

3285
03:08:03,840 --> 03:08:08,720
Speaker 7: in Dallas and Williamson County extended voting hours to nine

3286
03:08:08,800 --> 03:08:13,240
Speaker 7: and ten pm, respectively, but later that night, in a

3287
03:08:13,320 --> 03:08:17,160
Speaker 7: ruling just before eight thirty pm, the Texas Supreme Court

3288
03:08:17,240 --> 03:08:21,120
Speaker 7: blocked the lower court's order and instructed Dallas and Williamsman

3289
03:08:21,200 --> 03:08:24,280
Speaker 7: County to separate any ballots cast by voters who entered

3290
03:08:24,280 --> 03:08:28,119
Speaker 7: the line after seven pm and marked them as provisional ballots.

3291
03:08:28,800 --> 03:08:32,120
Speaker 7: After a request by Turn General Ken Paxton, who claimed

3292
03:08:32,160 --> 03:08:35,359
Speaker 7: his office was not properly notified of the extended voting hours,

3293
03:08:35,879 --> 03:08:39,600
Speaker 7: Paul Adams, the Dallas County election administrator, confirmed that these

3294
03:08:39,600 --> 03:08:43,560
Speaker 7: separated ballots would not be counted, pending further legal challenges.

3295
03:08:44,400 --> 03:08:47,680
Speaker 7: At her election night watch party, Crockett said that she

3296
03:08:47,720 --> 03:08:51,039
Speaker 7: had quote no idea how it is that clerks are

3297
03:08:51,080 --> 03:08:54,000
Speaker 7: going to know who was in line by what time.

3298
03:08:54,760 --> 03:08:58,680
Speaker 7: I can tell you now that people have been disenfranchised quote.

3299
03:08:59,400 --> 03:09:03,000
Speaker 7: On Wednesday morning, Crockett did concede the race, but told

3300
03:09:03,000 --> 03:09:06,440
Speaker 7: The New York Times quote the Democratic Party should absolutely

3301
03:09:06,440 --> 03:09:09,280
Speaker 7: prepare for the worst and get some things litigated right now.

3302
03:09:09,320 --> 03:09:11,840
Speaker 7: People will not turn out because of what's happened. In

3303
03:09:11,840 --> 03:09:15,320
Speaker 7: my opinion, especially if no one fights for their votes

3304
03:09:15,320 --> 03:09:17,000
Speaker 7: to be counted unquote.

3305
03:09:17,720 --> 03:09:20,920
Speaker 10: It does feel a lot like the first decade of

3306
03:09:20,920 --> 03:09:24,080
Speaker 10: the century. Again, like we go wars in the Middle East.

3307
03:09:24,080 --> 03:09:26,400
Speaker 10: We've got people arguing about votes that should be counted

3308
03:09:26,400 --> 03:09:27,520
Speaker 10: and not counted. It's great.

3309
03:09:28,440 --> 03:09:31,480
Speaker 7: So the total number of votes cast in the Republican

3310
03:09:31,480 --> 03:09:35,000
Speaker 7: primary that are tallied so far at ninety five percent

3311
03:09:35,040 --> 03:09:37,680
Speaker 7: of the votes in is two million, one hundred and

3312
03:09:37,720 --> 03:09:41,640
Speaker 7: forty two thousand, two hundred and eleven versus the Democratic primary.

3313
03:09:41,959 --> 03:09:46,119
Speaker 7: That's two million, three hundred and eight thousand, eight hundred

3314
03:09:46,160 --> 03:09:52,280
Speaker 7: and thirty six, slightly more Democratic votes counted in the primary.

3315
03:09:53,240 --> 03:09:54,560
Speaker 10: Texas has open primaries.

3316
03:09:54,600 --> 03:09:56,960
Speaker 7: Apparently Texas has open primaries.

3317
03:09:57,080 --> 03:09:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

3318
03:09:59,080 --> 03:10:03,560
Speaker 7: Tallerico will up nine points among white voters, up twenty

3319
03:10:03,600 --> 03:10:07,240
Speaker 7: two points among Hispanic while Crockett was up twenty three

3320
03:10:07,240 --> 03:10:10,640
Speaker 7: points among Black voters. Crockett was up eight points with

3321
03:10:10,800 --> 03:10:14,240
Speaker 7: Biden voters and tall Rico up thirty two points with

3322
03:10:14,400 --> 03:10:18,800
Speaker 7: Sanders voters. If you look at the twenty twenty presidential primary,

3323
03:10:18,879 --> 03:10:21,000
Speaker 7: and that gives you a little bit of a peak

3324
03:10:21,120 --> 03:10:24,160
Speaker 7: into kind of what these two candidates are presented with

3325
03:10:24,200 --> 03:10:26,840
Speaker 7: Crockett serving on the Kamala Harris campaign definitely more of

3326
03:10:26,879 --> 03:10:31,080
Speaker 7: a k Hive esque candidate, and Tall Rico a little

3327
03:10:31,160 --> 03:10:35,240
Speaker 7: bit running off of the kind of Bernie Sanders progressive

3328
03:10:35,480 --> 03:10:37,360
Speaker 7: coat tails, a little bit not coat tails, but like

3329
03:10:37,480 --> 03:10:40,680
Speaker 7: using that sort of playbook as more of like a

3330
03:10:40,879 --> 03:10:44,920
Speaker 7: relatable working class guy, less of like an established mid

3331
03:10:45,000 --> 03:10:49,800
Speaker 7: Democrat like Crockett sort of branded herself as Tall. Rico

3332
03:10:49,920 --> 03:10:52,280
Speaker 7: is a former school teacher who served in the state

3333
03:10:52,280 --> 03:10:55,800
Speaker 7: House since twenty eighteen. Fought against Christian nationalism and a

3334
03:10:55,840 --> 03:10:59,120
Speaker 7: bill mandating the Ten Commandments be displayed in classrooms, calling

3335
03:10:59,200 --> 03:11:03,120
Speaker 7: the bill unconstitutional, Unamerican, and deeply un Christian. In his

3336
03:11:03,120 --> 03:11:05,920
Speaker 7: past legislation lowering the cost of prescription drugs, He's like

3337
03:11:05,959 --> 03:11:08,040
Speaker 7: a progressive Christian. That's kind of I guess the best

3338
03:11:08,080 --> 03:11:11,080
Speaker 7: way to describe him as he Yeah, frequently went viral

3339
03:11:11,160 --> 03:11:13,600
Speaker 7: the past three years for clips of him, you know,

3340
03:11:13,720 --> 03:11:16,600
Speaker 7: arguing in the Texas State House, you know, arguing for

3341
03:11:16,640 --> 03:11:19,720
Speaker 7: progressive points of view while like quoting Bible versus that

3342
03:11:19,800 --> 03:11:21,960
Speaker 7: sort of thing. For this campaign of his, he was

3343
03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:24,760
Speaker 7: running on affordability and cost of living. That was the

3344
03:11:24,800 --> 03:11:27,400
Speaker 7: real focus of this campaign of targeting the richest one

3345
03:11:27,440 --> 03:11:30,959
Speaker 7: percent and giant corporations, making billionaires and corporations quote unquote

3346
03:11:30,959 --> 03:11:33,840
Speaker 7: pay their fair share of taxes, raising federal minimum wage

3347
03:11:33,840 --> 03:11:38,120
Speaker 7: to fifteen dollars, expanding child and earned income tax credits.

3348
03:11:38,720 --> 03:11:42,760
Speaker 7: He's opposed state legislation restricting gender a firming healthcare, including

3349
03:11:42,959 --> 03:11:47,199
Speaker 7: for people under eighteen. In September, right after he announced

3350
03:11:47,240 --> 03:11:51,560
Speaker 7: his candidacy, Tellerico, who's a member of the LGBTQ Caucus,

3351
03:11:51,680 --> 03:11:54,920
Speaker 7: responded to a question about trans athletes like this.

3352
03:11:55,040 --> 03:11:56,000
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting.

3353
03:11:56,200 --> 03:11:58,040
Speaker 14: I've been in this race for five days and I've

3354
03:11:58,080 --> 03:12:00,879
Speaker 14: had a lot of interviews with national meetia. No one's

3355
03:12:00,920 --> 03:12:03,760
Speaker 14: ever asked me about the cost of housing. No one's

3356
03:12:03,760 --> 03:12:06,119
Speaker 14: asked me about the cost of prescription drugs, no one's

3357
03:12:06,160 --> 03:12:08,960
Speaker 14: asking me about the cost of childcare. The only thing

3358
03:12:09,160 --> 03:12:11,880
Speaker 14: the media wants to ask me about are trans athletes.

3359
03:12:12,320 --> 03:12:14,720
Speaker 14: And so what I would say is that the only

3360
03:12:14,840 --> 03:12:19,200
Speaker 14: minority destroying this country is the billionaires. Trans People are

3361
03:12:19,200 --> 03:12:22,720
Speaker 14: one percent of the population, Undocumented people are one percent

3362
03:12:22,720 --> 03:12:25,760
Speaker 14: of the population, Muslims are one percent of the population.

3363
03:12:26,200 --> 03:12:29,320
Speaker 14: We are all focused on the wrong one percent. Trans

3364
03:12:29,320 --> 03:12:34,200
Speaker 14: People aren't taking away our healthcare. Undocumented people aren't defunding

3365
03:12:34,200 --> 03:12:37,400
Speaker 14: our schools. Muslims aren't cutting taxes for themselves and their

3366
03:12:37,480 --> 03:12:40,960
Speaker 14: rich friends. It's the billionaires and their puppet politicians. And

3367
03:12:41,000 --> 03:12:43,800
Speaker 14: so we need not only the media but all of

3368
03:12:43,879 --> 03:12:46,199
Speaker 14: us to focus on the real problem at hand.

3369
03:12:47,560 --> 03:12:51,480
Speaker 7: Hey, it appear like this was effective messaging.

3370
03:12:51,760 --> 03:12:53,519
Speaker 1: It's a good response. Yeah.

3371
03:12:53,600 --> 03:12:57,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, The only dangerous minority is to rich. It has

3372
03:12:57,080 --> 03:13:01,560
Speaker 10: consistently actually been a popular yeah messaging. The Democrats have

3373
03:13:01,600 --> 03:13:03,320
Speaker 10: nonetheless shied away from.

3374
03:13:03,040 --> 03:13:04,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's who it donates money to them.

3375
03:13:04,720 --> 03:13:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they like that. It's the only minority they liked.

3376
03:13:08,720 --> 03:13:12,400
Speaker 10: Because many of them are ragel Yeah, and others wish to.

3377
03:13:12,320 --> 03:13:16,680
Speaker 7: Be Tallarico supports regulating AI universal health care, term limits

3378
03:13:16,680 --> 03:13:20,600
Speaker 7: for Congress and its threem court justices, halting Israel's illegal settlements,

3379
03:13:20,959 --> 03:13:25,840
Speaker 7: restoring the talking only filibuster, and banning gerrymandering, and establishing

3380
03:13:25,959 --> 03:13:33,599
Speaker 7: independent redistricting. Talary participated in the Texas Democrats protests against redistricting,

3381
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:36,360
Speaker 7: both in like twenty twenty one and last year in

3382
03:13:36,400 --> 03:13:38,920
Speaker 7: twenty twenty five, where they fled Texas.

3383
03:13:39,240 --> 03:13:40,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, they went on the holiday for a while.

3384
03:13:40,720 --> 03:13:43,600
Speaker 7: On his campaign website, he talks about advocating reform to

3385
03:13:43,640 --> 03:13:48,120
Speaker 7: make legal immigration easier, in creating pathways to legalization for

3386
03:13:48,280 --> 03:13:52,760
Speaker 7: undocumented immigrants already long present, as well as spouses and dreamers.

3387
03:13:53,400 --> 03:13:57,200
Speaker 7: Part of his immigration policy reads, quote, prioritize the deportation

3388
03:13:57,320 --> 03:14:01,480
Speaker 7: of criminals, gang members, and human traffickers, not our neighbors

3389
03:14:01,480 --> 03:14:04,800
Speaker 7: who contribute to our communities, pay taxes, impose no threat

3390
03:14:04,800 --> 03:14:08,400
Speaker 7: to our safety unquote. Part of where this sort of

3391
03:14:09,080 --> 03:14:12,360
Speaker 7: language I think falls apart is that when the Trump

3392
03:14:12,400 --> 03:14:16,400
Speaker 7: administration claims that it's deporting gang members and criminals like

3393
03:14:16,400 --> 03:14:20,920
Speaker 7: what we saw with people sent to Seacott, that also

3394
03:14:20,959 --> 03:14:23,320
Speaker 7: includes regular people. That also includes our neighbors. And I

3395
03:14:23,400 --> 03:14:26,720
Speaker 7: think that is one slight fault in this messaging. It's

3396
03:14:26,760 --> 03:14:28,800
Speaker 7: going to be interesting with him running in the general now,

3397
03:14:28,840 --> 03:14:31,640
Speaker 7: you know in Texas where the border is a big

3398
03:14:31,680 --> 03:14:36,000
Speaker 7: issue there, and a lot of his immigration stuff definitely

3399
03:14:36,160 --> 03:14:39,040
Speaker 7: is not going to at least currently is not as

3400
03:14:39,080 --> 03:14:41,800
Speaker 7: far to the left as as some other progressive Democrats,

3401
03:14:42,240 --> 03:14:44,920
Speaker 7: and this is something that he is currently being pushed on,

3402
03:14:45,680 --> 03:14:50,480
Speaker 7: especially after winning. Progressive advocates are pushing him on Ice specifically,

3403
03:14:50,800 --> 03:14:53,920
Speaker 7: as well as some stuff on Israel. And Gaza. Telleryco

3404
03:14:54,040 --> 03:14:56,879
Speaker 7: Is advocated to stop the sale of quote unquote offensive

3405
03:14:57,000 --> 03:15:00,560
Speaker 7: weapons to Israel while still funding the I Dome and

3406
03:15:00,600 --> 03:15:03,480
Speaker 7: defensive weapons. Talked about trying to find a way to

3407
03:15:03,520 --> 03:15:06,720
Speaker 7: make sure that defense weapons cannot be used offensively. But

3408
03:15:07,040 --> 03:15:10,960
Speaker 7: he does recognize that Gaza is an extremely important issue

3409
03:15:11,200 --> 03:15:13,400
Speaker 7: and said in an interview quote one of the primary

3410
03:15:13,400 --> 03:15:16,080
Speaker 7: reasons the Democratic Party lost young voters in particular last

3411
03:15:16,080 --> 03:15:19,119
Speaker 7: election was our party's failure to recognize the moral disaster

3412
03:15:19,200 --> 03:15:21,280
Speaker 7: in Gaza. And I hope that we have leaders who

3413
03:15:21,320 --> 03:15:23,880
Speaker 7: recognize that mistake. I think that's all I need to

3414
03:15:23,879 --> 03:15:27,760
Speaker 7: say of regarding that the generals not until November, and

3415
03:15:28,240 --> 03:15:31,000
Speaker 7: if it is a Cornyn, that will be a much

3416
03:15:31,440 --> 03:15:35,920
Speaker 7: much harder race considering he's an incumbent versus Paxton, who

3417
03:15:35,920 --> 03:15:38,400
Speaker 7: has a lot of avenues for attack. For someone like

3418
03:15:38,440 --> 03:15:41,199
Speaker 7: tall Rico, who can lean on his like a Christian

3419
03:15:41,280 --> 03:15:44,440
Speaker 7: charm to it attract voters both in rural areas as

3420
03:15:44,480 --> 03:15:46,480
Speaker 7: well as lean on his support among Hispanic voters as

3421
03:15:46,520 --> 03:15:49,800
Speaker 7: demonstrated in the primary. Mia, you have one final thing

3422
03:15:49,840 --> 03:15:53,000
Speaker 7: to add based on the primary elections in North Carolina.

3423
03:15:53,760 --> 03:15:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there were a bunch of primary elections in

3424
03:15:56,640 --> 03:15:59,360
Speaker 2: North Carolina. And I'm mentioning this because there was a

3425
03:15:59,400 --> 03:16:02,760
Speaker 2: series of North Carolina Democrats who voted with Republicans to

3426
03:16:03,600 --> 03:16:06,840
Speaker 2: pass anti trans legislation over a veto from the governor,

3427
03:16:06,920 --> 03:16:11,560
Speaker 2: and also voted with them on really horrifying like pro

3428
03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:16,959
Speaker 2: ice legislation, and those people lost by cartoon margins. We

3429
03:16:17,040 --> 03:16:19,680
Speaker 2: are talking margins that start at thirty percent go to

3430
03:16:19,720 --> 03:16:21,800
Speaker 2: forty percent, and one of these people lost their race

3431
03:16:21,840 --> 03:16:22,840
Speaker 2: by fifty percent.

3432
03:16:23,240 --> 03:16:23,520
Speaker 10: Jeez.

3433
03:16:24,000 --> 03:16:27,360
Speaker 2: So the anti trans candidates and the like I am

3434
03:16:27,640 --> 03:16:31,320
Speaker 2: pro ice racist candidates lost by like bath party numbers,

3435
03:16:31,920 --> 03:16:34,360
Speaker 2: which which I think is actually very encouraging because I

3436
03:16:34,360 --> 03:16:36,760
Speaker 2: think it's a sign of where people are right now,

3437
03:16:36,760 --> 03:16:39,840
Speaker 2: where people are going. Even as the state is trying

3438
03:16:39,840 --> 03:16:42,879
Speaker 2: to do anti transppression, this has become a thing that

3439
03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:47,000
Speaker 2: is enough where if you are willing to vote for

3440
03:16:47,040 --> 03:16:49,640
Speaker 2: this shit and make a bunch of trans people suffer,

3441
03:16:49,680 --> 03:16:54,400
Speaker 2: you will lose by You will lose by forty in

3442
03:16:54,480 --> 03:16:56,760
Speaker 2: a primary. Unbelievable.

3443
03:16:58,360 --> 03:17:04,959
Speaker 10: Primaries tend to include more informed, politically engaged voters, and

3444
03:17:05,000 --> 03:17:07,920
Speaker 10: that it's one of the things that engages people most

3445
03:17:08,000 --> 03:17:09,480
Speaker 10: right now, specifically the ice stuff.

3446
03:17:09,720 --> 03:17:14,000
Speaker 1: It's also more ideologically motivated voters, and the right has

3447
03:17:14,040 --> 03:17:16,160
Speaker 1: made the far right has made use of this for

3448
03:17:16,280 --> 03:17:20,200
Speaker 1: decades to push the more moderate actual politicians stuff for

3449
03:17:20,240 --> 03:17:24,080
Speaker 1: the Republican Party further right, because you can't win primaries

3450
03:17:24,120 --> 03:17:27,920
Speaker 1: without getting like appealing to the most extreme of them,

3451
03:17:28,480 --> 03:17:31,200
Speaker 1: and there has not up until very recently been that

3452
03:17:31,320 --> 03:17:34,560
Speaker 1: kind of success with like far left positions. Not that

3453
03:17:34,600 --> 03:17:37,440
Speaker 1: I think basic respect for trans people ought to be

3454
03:17:37,480 --> 03:17:40,199
Speaker 1: far left, but it's clearly not a centrist dim position.

3455
03:17:40,440 --> 03:17:42,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, apparently, And.

3456
03:17:42,600 --> 03:17:44,800
Speaker 1: I think that this is good. I think it's a

3457
03:17:44,840 --> 03:17:47,879
Speaker 1: smart way to influence the direction of the party.

3458
03:17:48,000 --> 03:17:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. I want to close with there's a slogan

3459
03:17:50,840 --> 03:17:54,040
Speaker 2: from Chile that gets used in social movements constantly that

3460
03:17:54,080 --> 03:17:57,760
Speaker 2: goes roughly like, Chile is where neiliberalism was born, and

3461
03:17:57,800 --> 03:18:00,320
Speaker 2: we're going to kill it here. And I think this

3462
03:18:00,400 --> 03:18:03,240
Speaker 2: is sort of the start of potentially that in North Carolina,

3463
03:18:03,360 --> 03:18:06,720
Speaker 2: where well, this isn't the start, but hopefully we're seeing

3464
03:18:07,040 --> 03:18:09,160
Speaker 2: like the culmination of a whole bunch of ways of

3465
03:18:09,160 --> 03:18:13,680
Speaker 2: activism and organizing amobialization that can kill this kind of

3466
03:18:13,720 --> 03:18:16,039
Speaker 2: anti trans politics in the place where it was born.

3467
03:18:16,320 --> 03:18:17,519
Speaker 2: The first bathroom.

3468
03:18:17,120 --> 03:18:20,120
Speaker 10: Bill, So if you would like to email us with

3469
03:18:20,160 --> 03:18:23,680
Speaker 10: some tips on stories. You can do so at cool

3470
03:18:23,760 --> 03:18:26,360
Speaker 10: Zone Tips at proton dot me that it's not the

3471
03:18:26,400 --> 03:18:30,720
Speaker 10: email address to plug your book or ask if you

3472
03:18:30,760 --> 03:18:33,160
Speaker 10: could be on behind the bus sets and if you

3473
03:18:33,240 --> 03:18:34,840
Speaker 10: do that, I will block you.

3474
03:18:35,320 --> 03:18:36,720
Speaker 2: Put at your end, Skirl on your couch.

3475
03:18:37,360 --> 03:18:41,440
Speaker 7: We reported the news, We reported the news.

3476
03:18:46,720 --> 03:18:49,920
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3477
03:18:49,959 --> 03:18:51,840
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3478
03:18:52,600 --> 03:18:55,080
Speaker 4: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3479
03:18:55,280 --> 03:18:58,359
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3480
03:18:58,440 --> 03:19:02,000
Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3481
03:19:02,080 --> 03:19:05,640
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3482
03:19:05,680 --> 03:19:08,000
Speaker 3: now find sources where it Could Happen here listen directly

3483
03:19:08,040 --> 03:19:09,160
Speaker 3: in episode descriptions.

3484
03:19:09,520 --> 03:19:10,320
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.