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Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. At this point,

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Speaker 1: it was April of twenty twenty one, and the last

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Speaker 1: email I'd received from Christopher Vaughan began with Lauren, I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry to have wasted your time. I am done

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Speaker 1: with the podcast. That email ended with I thank you

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Speaker 1: for your compassion and your willingness to help. I wish

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Speaker 1: you all the best, Chris. This was an unexpected and

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Speaker 1: unfortunate turn, especially in light of the potential insight. Chris's

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Speaker 1: five page letter provided something I conveyed to his parents

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Speaker 1: on April first. It's so strange that he sent that

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Speaker 1: to me, because today I got my first shot of

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Speaker 1: the vaccine, so I'm that much closer to being able

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Speaker 1: to visit with him. And I think you were right.

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Speaker 1: You both said that he knows what to expect from life.

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Speaker 2: Right now, well digitally.

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Speaker 3: That's why he hasn't called us this week, because he's been.

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Speaker 2: Overthinking going through it. Going through a new trial is

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Speaker 2: like pulling chief with him. He doesn't want to go

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Speaker 2: back to Joli yet. He doesn't want to bring up

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Speaker 2: the loss of his children again. He doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: point a finger at Kim and then he gets scared.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't want to put hope out there. He thought

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Speaker 2: that he was not good enough to take care and

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Speaker 2: watch over and save his children, and he doesn't want

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Speaker 2: it out there again that he was unable to do that.

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Speaker 2: For him, time has stood still.

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Speaker 4: That might be.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen years later, but for him, I think he's just

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Speaker 2: rerunning it all the time.

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Speaker 4: Well, like Gale said, he has nothing to do twenty

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Speaker 4: four to seven but think about this, and he's got

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Speaker 4: anxiety about going through this all again.

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Speaker 1: Well, there are other avenues for post conviction relief other

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Speaker 1: than a trial.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that would help, because right now Chris only sees

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Speaker 3: a retrial. I know that if we could actually get

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Speaker 3: to talk to him, visit him, and it would help

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Speaker 3: things a lot.

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Speaker 1: I was becoming increasingly convinced that Bond's version, as laid

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Speaker 1: out in the letter, provided answers to issues I'd personally

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Speaker 1: had with both the prosecution and the defensive scenarios of

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Speaker 1: the events. I have been through everything with a fine toothcomb.

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Speaker 1: They theorize how he did it, but they can't explain

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Speaker 1: why there is no blood trail from the passenger side

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Speaker 1: if he was shot on one side and he was standing.

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Speaker 1: On the other he would have had to have walked

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Speaker 1: around the car. Are either the front or the back?

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Speaker 1: None of it makes sense. They proved motive, but they

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Speaker 1: never proved that he did it. Forensics are explained by

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Speaker 1: his version of what happened that day. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco,

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Speaker 1: and this is murder in Illinois.

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Speaker 4: Gange Dilloy.

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Speaker 5: Cry Gange feel ground.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's disappointing, yes, but understandable. I reached out to

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Speaker 1: Bill to discuss Chris's email about no longer moving forward.

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Speaker 1: There have been parts of his memories that he's kept

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Speaker 1: really hidden from himself and locked away for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and now they're all out there. He had to put

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Speaker 1: them on the page, and now he's living with them

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Speaker 1: on a daily basis. I told his parents that I

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Speaker 1: was going to keep corresponding with him and just ask

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Speaker 1: that he meet with me. At least his version of

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Speaker 1: the events really seems to explain the forensics of the car.

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Speaker 1: If his letter ends up being backed up by your

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Speaker 1: crime scene reconstruction, is there another option other than going

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Speaker 1: through another trial, perhaps going to the ag or to

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Speaker 1: the governor.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, it's a lot on all of these

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Speaker 6: avenues are just extremely difficult, but executive clemency it stands

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Speaker 6: a better chance than going back.

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Speaker 7: To wil County.

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Speaker 1: Executive clemency would be a possible way of avoiding another trial.

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Speaker 1: It referred to the general powers of the President and

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Speaker 1: of governors to pardon, grant, amnesty, communion, or reprieve to

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Speaker 1: individuals who've been convicted. Two days after that discussion, Gale

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Speaker 1: and Pierre called with news they'd finally heard from Chris.

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Speaker 1: I immediately reached back out to Bill. They spoke to Chris.

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Speaker 1: They said, he cannot give up on himself, and he

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Speaker 1: cannot quit until he has sat with us in person

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Speaker 1: and we've talked to him about his other options and

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Speaker 1: he's back on board.

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Speaker 7: That's great, That is a positive development.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's stirred up all these feelings and emotions and memories,

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Speaker 1: and on many levels, I think he's come to the

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Speaker 1: conclusion that it would be easier to just stay where

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Speaker 1: he is and live what he knows.

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Speaker 7: He just has resigned himself to just isolating, and it's

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Speaker 7: good that his parents were able to get through to it.

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Speaker 1: Another obstacle would be getting Chris to agree to share

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Speaker 1: the information in that deeply personal letter he'd sent his parents.

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Speaker 1: It is also the only eyewitness account of the events

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Speaker 1: that day, and if it does end up overlapping seamlessly

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Speaker 1: with the forensics in terms of recreating the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: it's ultimately the key to getting him out, and so

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Speaker 1: we need to address it.

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Speaker 7: It's an incredibly difficult cases, it is, but having his

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Speaker 7: cooperation is essential.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. It becomes very clear that he was incapable or

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Speaker 1: unwilling to defend himself until this point. So it is

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Speaker 1: a breakthrough, you know, it's as if he was challenging

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Speaker 1: people to figure it out without his help.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My next step was to reach out for advice to

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Speaker 1: a prominent force in the innocence community, Jason Flam, the

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Speaker 1: host of the Wrongful Conviction podcast that bears his name.

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Speaker 1: Our pads actually crossed a few years back when I

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Speaker 1: picked up a freelance producing job for the Doctor Phil

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Speaker 1: Show solely for the chance to meet Flom in person.

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Speaker 1: As it turned out, he was listening to Murder in Oregon,

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Speaker 1: one of my previous podcasts at the time, and we've

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Speaker 1: stayed in touch since. As an aside, Jason's three decades

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Speaker 1: of work in the field of justice, reform is as

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Speaker 1: impressive as his day job as a record label executive.

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Speaker 1: He's launched the careers of acts like Matchbox twenty, Katy Perry,

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Speaker 1: and Lord. He's a truly impressive, inspiring guy.

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Speaker 8: I am the founding board member of the Innocence Project

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Speaker 8: in New York, not the founder by any means, but

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Speaker 8: the founding board member of Big Difference. The founders, of course,

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Speaker 8: are Parry Schech and Peter Neufeld. I don't remember the

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Speaker 8: exact case, but I turned on the TV and there

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Speaker 8: was the story that the Innocence Project, which was a

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Speaker 8: brand new organization back then, had found the DNA in

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Speaker 8: a case of a guy who was about to be executed,

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Speaker 8: and at sort of the last hour, had ridden in

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Speaker 8: like the Avengers and proven that this man was innocent.

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Speaker 8: Not only did he not get execute it, but he

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Speaker 8: was freed. And I thought, that's the most amazing, craziest

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Speaker 8: shit I've ever heard. It never occurred to me back

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Speaker 8: then that innocent people went to prison.

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Speaker 1: That was thirty years ago, and ever since, Flohm has

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Speaker 1: become a power full voice for the powerless and voiceless,

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Speaker 1: and well versed in the misconception surrounding wrongful convictions.

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Speaker 8: There's growing awareness, for sure about the scourge of wrongful convictions,

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Speaker 8: but I think it's probably hard for the human mind,

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Speaker 8: or the American mind, to process the idea that it's

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Speaker 8: as common as it is, because if you accept that,

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Speaker 8: then you have to also understand that it could happen

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Speaker 8: to you. The fact is, it happens all the damn time,

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Speaker 8: and social scientists different studies have estimated between four and

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Speaker 8: seven percent of people in prison are innocent in America,

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Speaker 8: some say as high as ten percent. I personally think

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Speaker 8: it may be higher because it's the guilty plea problem,

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Speaker 8: and that doesn't even take into account the huge number

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Speaker 8: of people that are in jail who haven't been convicted

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Speaker 8: of anything.

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Speaker 1: Flom is all too familiar with the most sobering statistics

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Speaker 1: about our legal system, in particular pre conviction incarceration.

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Speaker 8: Almost five hundred thousand people in jail right now as

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Speaker 8: we're talking who haven't been convicted of anything, and the

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Speaker 8: majority of those people are actually innocent. So when you

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Speaker 8: add all those numbers together, you get to a really

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Speaker 8: high number of people that are actually innocent. I mean,

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Speaker 8: over two hundred thousand seems to be very likely two

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Speaker 8: hundred thousand people innocent of the crimes for which they're

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Speaker 8: serving time or awaiting trial is nuts. And every one

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Speaker 8: of them has a story and had dreams and hopes

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Speaker 8: and aspirations as a family of some sort. It's a massive,

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Speaker 8: massive problem. But I'm super humbled and grateful that people

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Speaker 8: listen to my podcast and are learning and getting involved,

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Speaker 8: and change is coming. It's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: Change and reform he's dedicated to making sure also addresses

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Speaker 1: the treatment of people after they've served their sentences.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, there's almost an analogy I would draw where you've

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Speaker 8: probably seen these cities and counties where they take the

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Speaker 8: spots where homeless people sleep at night, and they put

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Speaker 8: spikes on the benches and things. I mean, isn't it

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Speaker 8: bad enough that these people are without a place to live,

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Speaker 8: and now we're going to take away what little comfort

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Speaker 8: they may have been able to find under a bridge

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Speaker 8: or god knows where. And it's sort of like the

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Speaker 8: same thing we do with people coming out of prison,

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Speaker 8: innocent or guilty, right where we should be providing them

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Speaker 8: with the tools that they need to re enter society,

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Speaker 8: to be able to go back to their community, to

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Speaker 8: their family, to their school and have a chance, a

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Speaker 8: real chance at rebuilding their life. Instead, we put up

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Speaker 8: roadblocks at every turn. Basically, they have to live a

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Speaker 8: life of purity and sanctity and perfection and promptness, and

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Speaker 8: they have to be on time for their parole officer

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Speaker 8: and whatever. They can't you need a poppy seat bagel

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Speaker 8: because they'll fail a drug test and otherwise they're going

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Speaker 8: back to jail. And of course there's all the other

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Speaker 8: barriers right into employment and housing.

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Speaker 1: That's the other thing. I think that there is this naivete,

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Speaker 1: this misconception that if someone is innocent and you can

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Speaker 1: prove it, that they're automatically welcomed back into society led

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Speaker 1: out of prison. And it's a huge hurdle. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I'm reaching out to you, because in the case

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Speaker 1: with Chris Vaughan, I didn't want to reach out to

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Speaker 1: you actually until I felt that I could very clearly

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Speaker 1: articulate why I needed your advice and why I needed

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Speaker 1: your guidance and your help in this. With Chris's knowledge

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Speaker 1: and his parent support, I'd sent Jason Bond's five page letter.

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Speaker 1: In addition to extensive background information, crime scene reports, depositions,

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Speaker 1: and build Clutter's twenty ten detailed summary, which made the

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Speaker 1: case for murder suicide based on forensic evidence.

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Speaker 8: I often think that the only thing worse than being

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Speaker 8: wrongfully convicted and sent to prison for the rest of

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Speaker 8: your life or death row, or any any variation of that,

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Speaker 8: is being wrongfully convicted of murdering a relative, particularly a child,

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Speaker 8: your own child, or a parent or sibling. I guess,

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Speaker 8: but something about the child or the parent is particularly

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Speaker 8: difficult for me to process. Arresting him at the funeral

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Speaker 8: is just particularly six scenario. And you know, but it

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Speaker 8: goes on all the time, right, It's like, what are

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Speaker 8: the authorities kicking people's doors allegedly looking for drugs? If

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Speaker 8: you're looking for drugs, why not wait till somebody emerges

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Speaker 8: from the house in the morning and arrest them. Then

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Speaker 8: you know. But it's all it's all just backwards, and

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Speaker 8: it's all designed for maximum cruelty and abuse. That's the

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Speaker 8: system that we're in, and he unfortunately caught the very

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Speaker 8: worst of all of it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted Flohm's seasoned opinion to weigh in on the

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Speaker 1: one I was finally ready to voice.

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Speaker 8: The letter.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, it's like you take an overlay, and all the

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Speaker 1: missing puzzle pieces just materialized and you could see for

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Speaker 1: the first time the clear picture, and it just makes

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Speaker 1: the whole thing that much more tragic. Actually, on so

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Speaker 1: many levels.

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Speaker 8: Jason.

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Speaker 1: You have the defense theory, which didn't make sense because

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Speaker 1: they wanted to believe the reason why he couldn't remember

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Speaker 1: anything was dissociative amnesia, and that he was in the

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Speaker 1: car when the kids were shot, and that he rolled

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Speaker 1: forward in kind of a frozen state, and that he

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Speaker 1: sat back into her blood. None of that made sense.

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Speaker 1: But the prosecution's theory made no more sense, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until you get his letter and you realize that

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Speaker 1: he was behind the car, heard this explosion inside the car,

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Speaker 1: that as he was opening the driver's side she shot

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Speaker 1: him once, tried to get back in, she shot again,

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Speaker 1: and then shot herself. So when he sat back down

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Speaker 1: into the driver's seat and turned around to check on

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Speaker 1: the kids, her blood was all over his back, but

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Speaker 1: her body was also slumped, and in his panic, he thought,

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Speaker 1: I'll drive to go get help, and in doing so,

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Speaker 1: he tried to pull her belt which she had taken off,

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Speaker 1: and his blood from his wounded left wrist was all

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Speaker 1: over the belt, and his hands were shaking so much

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Speaker 1: while he was trying to buckle her in because she

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Speaker 1: was also blocking that buckle, that the blood pooled on

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Speaker 1: the council and then he gave up because he was shaking,

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Speaker 1: and it retracted and went back and he got out

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Speaker 1: of the car. But that's why none of his blood

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Speaker 1: is on the exterior perimeter back or front of the car.

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Speaker 1: If he had shot her, there would have been blood

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Speaker 1: all over him and he would have had to have

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Speaker 1: walked around. And it wasn't until Chris wrote the letter

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Speaker 1: which I had shared with you, that I started this

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Speaker 1: thinking what if he were innocent? And now I sincerely

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Speaker 1: feel he is. Chris Vaughn allowed himself to be convicted.

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Speaker 1: He was incapable or unwilling for fourteen years to adequately

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Speaker 1: defend himself. In many levels, it's just this perfect storm

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Speaker 1: of tunnel vision, confirmation, bias, character assassination, and then blood

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Speaker 1: splatter evidence, which it's this interpretive science, which is like

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Speaker 1: reading an ink block. Blood spatter expert Paul Kish was

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Speaker 1: utilized by the prosecution to contend that the blood spatter

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Speaker 1: evidence did not conform with Vaughn having left the vehicle

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Speaker 1: before his wife was shot, due to the presence of

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Speaker 1: his blood on the seat belt console and droplets on

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Speaker 1: the passenger side. Obviously, Kish wasn't privy to Bond's latest revelations,

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Speaker 1: but even at the time of the trial, Kish conceded

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Speaker 1: that he couldn't rule out murder suicide based on the

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Speaker 1: blood evidence either. Here again is Jason Flamm.

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Speaker 8: Let's talk about blood spatter because I think people watch Dexter,

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Speaker 8: they watch CSI or whatever they watch, and they have

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Speaker 8: this totally unrealistic view. Because the National Academy of Sciences, right,

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Speaker 8: the real thing, right, the people who we should hold

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Speaker 8: in the highest regard, in two thousand and nine did

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Speaker 8: a very intensive study real scientific integrity, and they were

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Speaker 8: extremely critical of a number of the junk sciences. But

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Speaker 8: I think they saved some of their strongest words for

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Speaker 8: blood spatter, and among other things, that this blood spatter

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Speaker 8: analysis is more subjective than substantive.

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Speaker 1: It's whatever you want to say, and it can be

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Speaker 1: used to prove whatever you want to prove given most scenarios.

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Speaker 8: No, you're absolutely right. It is the probably the worst

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Speaker 8: of all the junk sciences, and to call it a

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Speaker 8: science is ridiculous. Right, you can take a forty hour

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Speaker 8: course to become a bloodstained pattern analyst and then you

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Speaker 8: can actually go and testify in court. It's ridiculous. It's

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Speaker 8: absurd because the people are getting up and testifying as

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Speaker 8: experts forty hours. What can you learn in forty hours.

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Speaker 8: Almost nothing. There's nothing scientific about it. It's foolishness, that's

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Speaker 8: what it is, except for the fact that the consequences

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Speaker 8: are so extremely serious and real. So that should have

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Speaker 8: been the end of it. It should never have been

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Speaker 8: used again after that was made clear. But again the

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Speaker 8: courts fall back on themselves and the system protects itself.

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Speaker 8: It doesn't protect the people. It doesn't work for the

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Speaker 8: Chris Bonds, it doesn't work for any of the people

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Speaker 8: it's supposed to work for, which are the people whose

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Speaker 8: lives are in the hands of the system that is

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Speaker 8: supposed to protect their rights and all of our rights.

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Speaker 8: And once once it starts down a road and that

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Speaker 8: television sets in, as you said, Lauren, they will find

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Speaker 8: ways to railroad you and they just put these blinders

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Speaker 8: on and it doesn't matter. And as I was listening

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Speaker 8: to you talk, it occurred to me that Chris is

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Speaker 8: exactly the person that we were referencing a few minutes ago, right,

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Speaker 8: because he didn't believe that he could be wrongfully convicted,

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Speaker 8: which is why he didn't really mount the defense. First

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Speaker 8: of all, this poor guy's just lost his entire family.

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Speaker 8: He's just seen his entire family dead in front of

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Speaker 8: his eyes. Right, he saw his kids murdered like seconds earlier,

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Speaker 8: bleeding to death whatever the backseat of his car, and

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Speaker 8: then his wife. Now grant that he wasn't badly hurt,

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Speaker 8: but I've never been shot. I'm sure it's kind of traumatic.

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Speaker 8: To be shot twice and then find your family dead

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Speaker 8: is something nobody should ever have to go through. And

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Speaker 8: it's unbelievable to even imagine what the hell. And it's

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Speaker 8: also disgusting for us to think that we know how

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Speaker 8: someone should or should not act that has been through that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you're right, he was on his demeanor. He

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Speaker 1: didn't act the way he should. I think that he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to implicate his wife because he felt guilt

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Speaker 1: that he thought that his actions drove her to do

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Speaker 1: something so horrific and out of character.

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Speaker 8: And you know, in my view, he's guilty of being

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Speaker 8: maybe not the best husband. But I'm not going to

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Speaker 8: sit there and judge him, and I would say that

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Speaker 8: no one else really should either. We don't know what

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Speaker 8: was going on in their relationship or in their home,

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Speaker 8: and that is also not a crime. It might be

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Speaker 8: a moral failing, but it's not a crime. And also

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Speaker 8: that I think he was in a certain way protecting

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Speaker 8: the reputation of the woman that he had been married to.

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Speaker 8: But this also reminds me, Lauren of, in a certain way,

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Speaker 8: the case that we covered on wrongful Conviction, the Larry

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Speaker 8: Delile case, right where Larry was in his car with

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Speaker 8: his four kids and his wife, gas pedal jammed and

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Speaker 8: the car went screaming into the river off a dock,

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Speaker 8: and he and his wife I don't think they could swim,

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Speaker 8: but they managed to get out, and the kids were

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Speaker 8: tragically drowned. And then started this narrative where he's not

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Speaker 8: emotional enough, the press is stalking him at his house.

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Speaker 8: He's they were sitting outside, he and his wife having

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Speaker 8: an iced t or a beer or something. Now, he

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Speaker 8: was on a lot of medications after this. He was

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Speaker 8: taking so many pills to try to deal with this

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Speaker 8: unimaginable trauma. But they wanted to believe what they wanted

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Speaker 8: to believe, and I think in that case, people couldn't

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Speaker 8: process the idea that this car could have malfunctioned in

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Speaker 8: such a way with such awful consequences. So even when

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Speaker 8: the evidence emerged that is in fact exactly what happened,

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Speaker 8: and even when it became clear that one hundred and

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Speaker 8: seventeen I think other cars of this exact same make

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Speaker 8: and model had been recalled because the accelerator jammed. And

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Speaker 8: even though his wife said the accelerator jammed, the story

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Speaker 8: got out there in the media that he had confessed.

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Speaker 8: That's debatable, but Larry is still in prison now thirty

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Speaker 8: I think it was nineteen eighty nine. So yeah, this

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Speaker 8: unfortunately is going back to what your question from earlier.

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Speaker 8: This is terribly, terribly common, and we need to overhaul

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Speaker 8: the system. And you know, Lady Justice, with the scales,

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Speaker 8: it's not a realistic depiction at all of our system. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know, this concept that justice is blind.

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Speaker 8: I think it's deaf, and it's interesting as it relates

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Speaker 8: to this case, right to the advant case, because you know,

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Speaker 8: another thing that I think is really not in the

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Speaker 8: public consciousness is that science and justice are practically opposite.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 8: Science is based on the analysis of data and information

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Speaker 8: that is processed in a way that is scientific, and

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Speaker 8: justice is based on precedent. Right. So while science moves forward,

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Speaker 8: justice looks backward. And some of these junk sciences are

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Speaker 8: similar in certain ways, right, just as with bitemark evidence.

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Speaker 8: And so what I mean by that is a judge

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Speaker 8: will look at a case and say, well, there's another

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Speaker 8: court that ruled that bite marks are okay. Even though

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Speaker 8: you have a huge body of evidence that you've just

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Speaker 8: presented that shows that bite marks are as unscientific as

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Speaker 8: could be, I'm going to allow it because another court

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Speaker 8: allowed it. Justice should be about making sure that, whilst

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Speaker 8: mistakes will always be made, that we minimize those mistakes,

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Speaker 8: and that people who don't do their jobs. And that

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Speaker 8: extends to the defense bar as well. If you have

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Speaker 8: a defender public or private who shows up drunk or

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Speaker 8: doesn't mount any defense re client, or is corrupt in

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Speaker 8: any way, they should be disbarred, just like an other

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Speaker 8: profession's and it almost never happens on the other side.

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Speaker 8: On the prosecution side, we know that police and prosecutors

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Speaker 8: lie with impunity, as do Unfortunately many forensic examiners. They

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Speaker 8: either lie or they just don't know what they're talking about.

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Speaker 1: And while there are many cases worthy of Jason's help,

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Speaker 1: he agreed to explore whether Vaughn's was worthy of re examination.

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Speaker 8: That's unbelievable. Yeah, Kafka meets Victor Hugo in the worst

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Speaker 8: possible ways, and I feel, as you do, compelled to

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Speaker 8: want to help him.

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Speaker 1: Next, I LinkedIn with Bill Clutter to discuss more details

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Speaker 1: about the case.

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Speaker 7: Sergeant Gary Lawson had already formed an opinion from day

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Speaker 7: one that Chris Vaughn committed the murder of his wife

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Speaker 7: and three kids. Sergeant Lawson's theory just conflicted with the

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Speaker 7: ballistic evidence. We conducted our own examination of the Ford expedition,

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Speaker 7: and Tom Bevell, our bloodstained expert, notices that in the

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Speaker 7: back of the Ford Expedition, behind where the children were seated,

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Speaker 7: there's a third seat and there was a bullet lodged,

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Speaker 7: and so he asked to get a doll rod. He

401
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 7: put it through the back of the seat where Cassandra

402
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Speaker 7: was seated in the middle of the two other children,

403
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Speaker 7: and pushed it through the third seat where the bullet

404
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 7: was lodged. It showed that the shot that killed Cassandra

405
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Speaker 7: was fired from the passengers seat, and then Luke Caid,

406
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Speaker 7: who was a ballistic expert, inspected the vehicle again with

407
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Speaker 7: laser and so clearly that shot came from where Kim

408
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Speaker 7: was seated. And the irony about this whole case the

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Speaker 7: state doesn't they acknowledge that the crime scene evidence suggests

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Speaker 7: a murder suicide, but that Chris Vaughn was this mastermind,

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Speaker 7: that he was so smart that he read this article

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Speaker 7: in PI magazine, which you know they fingerprinted. His fingerprints

413
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 7: weren't on it, and the article was the cover story

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Speaker 7: about it was a detective from New York City. It

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Speaker 7: dealt with staging a murder to look like a suicide. Well,

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Speaker 7: the example that he was writing about was some case

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Speaker 7: where a woman had been strangled to death by the

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Speaker 7: killer and then the killer stages it to look like

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Speaker 7: she had hung herself and committed suicide, totally separate, and

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Speaker 7: so they tried to infer and to argue with the

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Speaker 7: jury that somehow, but it's all confirmatory biased. The police

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Speaker 7: see that article, they say, ah, he must have staged

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Speaker 7: it to look like a suicide. But that was their case.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, bail and I want to say that this is sadly,

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Speaker 8: tragically not an uncommon narrative right where law enforcement decides

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Speaker 8: that the person who they claim to be the perpetrator

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Speaker 8: is both a deranged psychopath and a criminal mastermind.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 8: I believe when it's caught up along with the media

430
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Speaker 8: shit storm and the heightened emotions around a case like this,

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Speaker 8: it's like the thing just grows and everyone is able

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Speaker 8: to put on the same set of blinders and go, yep,

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Speaker 8: that must be what happened. To any trainee investigator or

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Speaker 8: first year law student, or someone who even watches TV

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Speaker 8: crime shows. You could look at us and go, no,

436
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 8: just no, that's not how this could have happened. The prosecutor,

437
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 8: I'm sure, would have had the jurors in the palm

438
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 8: of his hand as he or she presented this narrative

439
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 8: because they don't want to believe that mom killed the

440
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 8: kids and there's nobody alive to blame.

441
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: But to challenge Bond's conviction, both the state scenario and

442
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: the one recently conveyed in Chris's letter would need to

443
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: be scientifically tested to know which one aligned with ballistic

444
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: and blood evidence. In regards to the crime scene.

445
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 7: The state's theory that Paul Kish testified to that Kim

446
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 7: was her seat belt was buckled when she was shot

447
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 7: and killed, but that Chris unbuckled it to somehow stage

448
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 7: the crime scene. I always felt all along that would

449
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 7: have been virtually impossible. The way her body was positioned.

450
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 7: He would actually have to move her body to try

451
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 7: to unbuckle her seat belt it was buckled. And then

452
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 7: the second thing is her blood would be somewhere on

453
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 7: that seat belt as that seat belt's retracting. So that's

454
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 7: one scenario that we'll test. But the other one is

455
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 7: whether Chris the act of trying to buckle her in

456
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 7: which he describes in his statement.

457
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: Bill Clutter believes by demonstrating how each scene unfolded and

458
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: by testing which scenario is supported by the actual crime

459
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: scene evidence, he can call Vaughn's guilt into question. Jason

460
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: Plomm agreed that there was enough reasonable doubt to question

461
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Vaughan's conviction and to warrant mounting a crime scene reconstruction.

462
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 8: Because there's this freaking thing in the Constitution where it

463
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 8: says innocent until proven guilty, and there's that other thing

464
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 8: about reasonable doubt. I don't know how and when that

465
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 8: went out the window. But we need to restore those principles.

466
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: But crime scene reconstructions cost money. Bill Clutter had applied

467
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: for a fund that could potentially cover the costs of

468
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: one for Vaughn and was waiting for news on that grunt.

469
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 8: If there's anything that I can do, if there's a

470
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 8: financial support, if there's a need for a task that

471
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 8: you can't get the money for it, I mean, I

472
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 8: will just call it.

473
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 7: Here's what I want to do, and I'll send you

474
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 7: the grant. But we're going for the grant too, fun

475
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 7: the crime scene reconstruction. I'd like to get this crime

476
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 7: scene reconstruction done by August.

477
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 8: Well, you know, let me know. I'm I'm happy to

478
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 8: write a check if that's what's needed. You know, I've

479
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 8: been lucky enough to make some money and this is

480
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 8: what I decided choose to spend it.

481
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: And suddenly, with that act of unexpected generosity, Christopher Vaughan's

482
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: conviction was that much closer to getting a very real

483
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: and very significant chance for reevaluation. It was about this

484
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: time that we uncovered a potentially troubling timeline concerning Christopher

485
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: Vaughn's indictment in July of two thousand and seven, Bill

486
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: was going back through the discovery from the Vaughnd case

487
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: and happened upon a phone record memo regarding a conversation

488
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: between the state and its DNA testing lab.

489
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 7: The decision to arrest Christopher Vaughan was made on Friday,

490
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 7: June twenty second. He was arrested the next day, right

491
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 7: before the funerals for his family were to begin, and

492
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 7: that decision really focused on two issues. One was Chris's

493
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 7: inability to remember how his wife's blood was transferred to

494
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 7: the back right side of his jacket and the belief

495
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 7: that he had staged the crime scene by unbuckling his

496
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 7: wife's seat belt, and that was based on Bob Deal's

497
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 7: observations that there was a large saturation stain on his

498
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 7: wife's passenger seat belt that appeared consistent with her bleeding

499
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 7: onto the seat belt. That assumption turned out to be

500
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 7: wrong and it was disproved by DNA testing. All of

501
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 7: the blood turned out to be Chris's blood, and that

502
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 7: wasn't discovered until about a week after they arrested Chris

503
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 7: when the DNA results came back.

504
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: So what day did the DNA results come back and

505
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: what did they show and who was aware? Pay close

506
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: attention to the timeline and details you're about to hear.

507
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 7: We obtain a phone conversation log that was kept by

508
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 7: the crime lab. The general practice of the forensic scientists

509
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 7: or to keep telephone logs of contacts with investigators and

510
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 7: even private investigators like myself. On June twenty seventh of

511
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 7: two thousand and seven, at around ten am, Kelly Crachnach

512
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 7: from the Joliette Crime Lab contacted Sergeant Gary Lawson and

513
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 7: she gave him a verbal report of the DNA results,

514
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 7: which included one of the stains on the passenger seat belt,

515
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 7: and that stain turned out to be Chris's blood, not

516
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 7: Kimberly's blood as they first believed.

517
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: So I'm reading it now and it says reason for call.

518
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: Ten am, June twenty seventh, two thousand and seven, I

519
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: called to speak to Gary Lawson. I gave him verbal

520
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: DNA results on the latest batch of exhibits. He asked

521
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: me to inform the State's Attorney's office. I'll give them

522
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: a call period and then what happens. She had left

523
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: a message and that would have been according to the memo.

524
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: At ten thirty five am, and then what happened.

525
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 7: And then she got a call back by both Jim Glascal,

526
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 7: the state's attorney, and his assistant, John Connor, And that

527
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 7: was at two o'clock. And there was a later call

528
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 7: at four just to confirm whether they wanted the statistical

529
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 7: analysis of the DNA and this is the probability of

530
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 7: the DNA, and that occurred around four pm.

531
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: So it is your understanding that they should have known

532
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: whose blood was on the retracted belt at that point.

533
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 7: At that point, yes, based on the DNA results that

534
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 7: were given to them.

535
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: Christopher Vaughan was indicted the following month. An indictment requires

536
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: the state prosecutor to go in front of a grand

537
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: jury and present evidence of the alleged crime and ask

538
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: the grand jury to bring charges against the defendant. All

539
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: capital crimes and those for which the death penalty as

540
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: a punishment must be presented by indictment. You're about to

541
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: hear the exact transcript from the closed grand jury testimony

542
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: that was presented on July twenty fifth, two thousand and seven,

543
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: nearly a month after it was known that the DNA

544
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: results on the retracted belt belonged to Christopher, not Kimberly Vaughan.

545
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 7: This is where Sergeant Lawson testified before the grand jury

546
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 7: which ultimately indicted Chris and there was a series of questions.

547
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 7: He was asked about the seat belt.

548
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: I will read the part of the female prosecutor and.

549
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 7: This is one of the other prosecutors, Leah Norbitt, and

550
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 7: she's talking about the crime scene investors.

551
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: They looked at the seat belt right, yes, and on

552
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: that seat belt as if the seat belt were pulled

553
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: to be seat belted. Someone in correct, there was blood

554
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: on that seat belt, was there not?

555
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 7: Yes, it was.

556
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: And when Kimberly Vaughan was found by the paramedics and

557
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: by the police, she was not wearing a seat belt.

558
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: That's correct, and that is significant because she was wearing

559
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: that seat belt when she was shot.

560
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 7: That's correct.

561
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: What's problematic from your viewpoint about that testimony in front

562
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: of a grand jury, which means, if I'm not mistaken,

563
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: that he could not have been cross examined. It was closed, right.

564
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 7: The problem is is that they've got DNA testing that

565
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 7: contradicts their initial assumption that this was Kim's blood, and

566
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 7: the DNA testing contradicts that initial assumption. So you can't say,

567
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 7: based on the DNA testing that she was seatbelted when

568
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 7: she was shot, because her blood wasn't on the seat belt.

569
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 7: That's the problem with that testimony.

570
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: Well, they would have had verbal confirmation of the DNA

571
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: results a month earlier, on the twenty seventh of June,

572
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: but when would they have had written confirmation?

573
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 7: And this is where it becomes problematic because after Sergeant

574
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 7: Lawson gives that testimony, there's a DNA report that stated

575
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 7: the day after, which is July twenty six, two thousand

576
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 7: and seven. But the problem is we found in discovery

577
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 7: that same report had been actually dated July third, two

578
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 7: thousand and seven, three weeks before he gave that testimony.

579
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 7: And on that report there was dated July third, There

580
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 7: was in handwritten notes draft at the top and on

581
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 7: each page. So it appears that it gives sergeant loss

582
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 7: and plausible deniability about the results of the DNA having

583
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 7: it dated the day after he testified at the grand jury,

584
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 7: and the report was actually dated July third, about three

585
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 7: weeks before he testified, and so it really raises all

586
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 7: kinds of questions as to who directed the DNA analyst

587
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 7: Kelly Craajenek to mark draft. If that's her handwriting, what

588
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 7: was the purpose of marking a draft.

589
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: Was there any difference between the version that's marked draft

590
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: on the third of July and the final version, which

591
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: is dated the day after the closed grand jury testimony.

592
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 7: The only difference is the day. The reports are identical.

593
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 7: The conclusions of the DNA results are identical. The only

594
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 7: thing that's different is that changing of the date on

595
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 7: the report.

596
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: How do you characterize that.

597
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 7: It smells of fraud. That's what it smells to me.

598
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 7: It really deserves further investigation and to get to the

599
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 7: bottom of why that report was manipulated. I've never seen

600
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 7: it in my thirty five years of investigating for police

601
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 7: reports and forensic labs. I've never seen this ever in

602
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 7: my career, and so it really begs the question why

603
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 7: was it done and who directed.

604
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 8: It to be done.

605
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: Why would the date have been changed to the day

606
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: after loss and testified when it was known that he

607
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: had this information a month before that time. If this

608
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: was done intentionally, it does give the appearance that, in

609
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: order to secure Christopher Vaughn's indictment, the prosecution was trying

610
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: to hide the fact that this information was known at

611
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: the time of loss and testimony. I reached out to

612
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: the office of the Will County States Attorney to request

613
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: four clarification. After sending two emails, I followed up by

614
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: phone and was informed by James Glasgow's director of public

615
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: Affairs that mister Glasgow was not interested in providing a

616
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: statement or response. With that in mind, I wanted to

617
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: speak to a legal expert and get their thoughts. Richard

618
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: Kling is a clinical professor of law in Chicago at

619
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: the Kent College of Law and a practicing defense lawyer.

620
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts just on the fact of Will

621
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: County State's attorney seeking a grand jury indictment as opposed

622
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: to a preliminary hearing.

623
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 9: In most of the murder cases, the state's attorney generally

624
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 9: takes it to the grand jury. It's not unusual in

625
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 9: my experience. The vast majority of murder cases and sex

626
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 9: cases are taken directly to the grand jury.

627
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: Although the DNA testing had disproven the initial theory that

628
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: Kimberly Vaughn was wearing her safety belt when she was

629
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: shot allegedly, Sergeant Gary Lawson appeared before the grand jury

630
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: and testimony was elicited that suggested that Kimberly Vaughn was

631
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: wearing the seat belt at the time of her death.

632
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: Having read over that transcript, how would you characterize that

633
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: testimony in light of the fact that he knew the

634
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: results a month before.

635
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 9: It certainly erroneous, Whether it was mistakenly erroneous or intentionally erroneus.

636
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 9: Obviously I can't get into somebody else's mind, but it

637
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 9: was certainly a mistake to bring that in front of

638
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 9: the grand jury the way it was.

639
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: Would you categorize it as misleading?

640
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 9: Well, it is misleading to the grand jury. Realistically, they

641
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 9: didn't have the full story.

642
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: And I know that in Illinois police are were and

643
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: are allowed to lie to a suspect during interrogations to

644
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: coerce our confession or secure a confession. I should say,

645
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: is there any scenario in which an officer of the

646
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: law would be allowed to lie on the witness stand?

647
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 9: Absolutely? Not that the law is abundant. Police officers are not

648
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 9: allowed to lie to grand juris.

649
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: Kling was already very familiar with the Christopher Vaughn case

650
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: and investigating Innocent's efforts on his behalf. For him, it

651
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: called to mind another famous Illinois case which we referenced

652
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: in a previous episode that led to the abolishment of

653
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: the death penalty in Illinois and involved the vilification of

654
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: another investigator, much along the lines of Bob Dial's experience.

655
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 9: The parallels are spookily similar to the extent that Mike Callahan,

656
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 9: who was the state police officer when forty eight Hours,

657
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 9: was going to do a piece about Randy's tidel he

658
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 9: was asked by the state Police to investigate, essentially to

659
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 9: make sure that they were covered. And what happened with

660
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 9: Callahan is that he ended up finding out that the

661
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 9: state police had screwed around with a lot of stuff,

662
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 9: as well as the local police, and he eventually went

663
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 9: from being a decorated lieutenant in charge of the whole

664
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 9: district to writing traffic tickets. In I fifty five, the

665
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 9: parallels are very similar to the extent of the state

666
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 9: police was asked to do an investigation to make sure

667
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 9: that the Witleck title came went well, and when Palahan

668
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 9: came to the conclusion it didn't go well, he ended

669
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 9: up getting xed. And it's similar here.

670
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: Ultimately, former Illinois State Police investigator Michael Callahan would vile

671
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: a civil lawsuit which determined his constitutional rights had been

672
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: violated by his superiors. He wrote a book detailing his

673
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: experience called Too Politically Sensitive. As mentioned previously, the two

674
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: men convicted for murders they did not commit, HERB Whitlock

675
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: and Randy Stidle, were ultimately released as a result of

676
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: the corruption a misconduct Callahan uncovered. Stitle had been imprisoned

677
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: for seventeen years, Whitlock for twenty one. Back to Richard Klang.

678
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the bottom line is, I would hope

679
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 9: is that the state police, as well as the rest

680
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 9: of the world, is not interested in having somebody who

681
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 9: was innocent convicted, and hopefully they would want to reopen

682
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 9: it and hopefully the result for mister Vaughan will be

683
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 9: the same that it was for Whitlock.

684
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: Ands title, Richard Kling is very clear on where he

685
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: stands in regards to Christopher.

686
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 9: I was a public defender in Cook County for ten years.

687
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 9: In November, I will have been practicing fifty years. I've

688
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 9: tried over five hundred murder jury cases, including DNA, so

689
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 9: I'm not just speaking from the standpoint of academia. I'm

690
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 9: speaking from the standpoint of being in the trenches, and

691
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 9: I think it's a case that needs to be reevaluated.

692
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 4: Cay you he the.

693
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 5: Gry out O feel the ground holding load?

694
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Speaker 4: Are you.

695
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: On the next Murder in Illinois? I finally meet Christopher

696
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: Vaughn in person. Right as we get closer to the

697
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: prison is absolutely pouring quorks of lightning before Bill Clutter

698
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: takes on meticulously mounting an ambitious crime scene reconstruction. We're

699
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: all going to get the visual of every scenario, and

700
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: that's important that we'll put Bond's version of events to

701
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: the test.

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00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 8: As you pull back these layers, it becomes so painfully obvious.

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Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers

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00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,959
Speaker 1: are Lauren Bright Pacheco and Taylor Chackoine. Written by Lauren

705
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: Brett Pacheco and Matthew Riddle, Story editing by Matthew Riddle,

706
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: editing and sound design by Van Tyre and Taylor Chaqoine.

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00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: Featuring music by Cicada Rhythm with new compositions engineered and

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00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: mixed by Van Tyre and Taylor Chackoine.

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Speaker 6: You see the Ground.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

711
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that matter

712
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: to you,