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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Alexis Code Dame Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. It is time, folks, for our

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Speaker 1: weekly listener mail segment. We have some doozies for you,

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Speaker 1: for folks who have been listening along at home. We

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Speaker 1: recently finally got through the queue of voicemails and we

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Speaker 1: got our hands around it. So we have been learning

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Speaker 1: a ton. You've received interesting, fascinating, compelling, at times disturbing,

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Speaker 1: I'll say it, voicemails from all across the world. And

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Speaker 1: today we are. Today we are hitting on some some

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Speaker 1: very odd stories and we can't wait to hear what

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Speaker 1: you think about them as well. Uh, Matt, there's one

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Speaker 1: that I know stood out to both of us immediately.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those classic uh well, maybe one of

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Speaker 1: those classic stuff they don't want you to know stories

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Speaker 1: about Let's see, I don't know, should we say cryptid

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Speaker 1: or should we just say unusual wildlife? What do you think?

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Speaker 1: I mean, all cryptids are unusual wildlife, but not all

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Speaker 1: unusual wildlife are cryptids. So it's it's definitely along those lines. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I work with Tenderfoot TV a lot, and

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Speaker 1: they've got wolf as their logo. So when I saw

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Speaker 1: this message come through, I was like, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like wolves. Wolves are cool, majestic pack animals, They're intelligent. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in this. You usual named all the positive

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Speaker 1: traits of wolves, you didn't really like There's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of negative things about wolves us, like a wolf

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Speaker 1: in sheep's clothing, like they're you know, the wolf from

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Speaker 1: Little Red Riding Hood that eats the grandmother and dresses

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Speaker 1: up in her clothes on like to devour the young,

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Speaker 1: you know, virgin flesh, or wolves being like uh, scavenger.

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Speaker 1: Is that basically do is They'll come upon a domicile,

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Speaker 1: they'll assess it and they'll go, I'm gonna blow on

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Speaker 1: this for a while and let's see what happens. Let's

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Speaker 1: just see what happens. They're all about trying things out

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Speaker 1: and just testing. Yeah, I I think I think that

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Speaker 1: wolves have been perhaps unfairly maligned. They usually are only

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Speaker 1: gonna like most wild animals, They're usually only going to

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Speaker 1: mess with humans if there are extraordinary circumstances. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the real the real killer as far as land animals

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Speaker 1: is the hippopotamus. That's that's what I would take. I

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Speaker 1: would take a fight with two wolves over a fight

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Speaker 1: with one hippopotamus. How about five wolves, like a full

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Speaker 1: pack or one honey badger? What do you think one

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Speaker 1: honey badgerna bro. They literally attack animals testicles just by

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Speaker 1: like you know, some weird sixth cents. That is what

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Speaker 1: they go for the first thing. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, You're right. But we we did really enjoy

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Speaker 1: this story. Uh, and it leads to some very interesting places.

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Speaker 1: I would say, shall we roll it? Yes? Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: my name is Brianna. Uh. You can use this on

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Speaker 1: the show. By the way, I don't mind. I have

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Speaker 1: a story for you guys, but I think you'd find

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting. The story comes from my stepmom's uncle I

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Speaker 1: met for the first time. Uh. He lives in Idaho,

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Speaker 1: and we took a family trip out there couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago. And I don't know if you've ever been

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Speaker 1: to Idaho, but it's it's beautiful. It's mostly wilderness that's huge,

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Speaker 1: and they let us stay in this family cabin. Uh.

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Speaker 1: On the first night, we're all sitting on the front

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Speaker 1: porch and you know, we're just sitting around and talking

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Speaker 1: and to know each other. And my dad, who's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a conspiracy and I love cryptids, that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. He asked her uncle, you know, living out

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Speaker 1: here in the wilderness your whole life, you you had

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Speaker 1: to have seen something that you you can't explain. And uh,

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Speaker 1: her uncle he starts nodding, you know, before he's even

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Speaker 1: finished talking. And he tells us a story. He was

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Speaker 1: driving home really late one night from work, and even

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Speaker 1: at night, the visibility was pretty good because the sky

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Speaker 1: was clear, and Idaho so wide open you can see

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Speaker 1: out pretty far. And uh, he was driving coming down

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Speaker 1: the hill and way out far ahead on the road.

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Speaker 1: At the bottom of the hill, he could make out

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Speaker 1: a shape and at first he thought it was a deer,

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Speaker 1: and as he gets closer, he sees that it's it's

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Speaker 1: two shapes and then he thinks it's a mountain lion

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Speaker 1: enjoying a deer. And as he gets even closer, uh,

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Speaker 1: as his headlights just start to kind of illuminate what's

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Speaker 1: actually there, he sees that it's a wolf. At least

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Speaker 1: that's the best he can describe it. Does. It looks

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Speaker 1: like a wolf and he sees it pick up the

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Speaker 1: deer carcass, carry it to the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: throw it over the guard rail, and jump over after it.

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Speaker 1: He says he was so scared. He uh, he couldn't

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Speaker 1: think about what he just saw. He has it just

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Speaker 1: block it from his mind and just keep driving and

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Speaker 1: just get home. And it was until a few days

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Speaker 1: later he really processed what he saw. And uh, he

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Speaker 1: he had a lot of stories he did that that

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Speaker 1: was the one I think that still scared him the most.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it scared me, and I hope it's scared

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Speaker 1: you guys. Thank you bad time to be a deer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: enjoying a deer. That stuck with me. That with me.

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Speaker 1: If if you don't enjoy your work, what are you

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Speaker 1: doing exactly? You know? Uh, And this is fascinating. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in the US especially may not

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Speaker 1: have direct experience with wolves right. In fact, I believe

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Speaker 1: now if you are the average Jane or Joe blue

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Speaker 1: jeans in America, you're much more likely to run into

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Speaker 1: another kind of wild canine, the coyote, which has you know,

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Speaker 1: um famously begun the transition to becoming an urban animal,

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Speaker 1: similar to some foxes. This this is different though. The

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Speaker 1: wolves in Idaho are not acclimated. They are wild animals.

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Speaker 1: Honey badger versus pack of wolves. Jokes aside. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to tangle with them. You don't want to get

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Speaker 1: in their way. If they are killing a deer, whether

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Speaker 1: or not you think they're enjoying it, leave them alone.

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Speaker 1: This is not your time to be the wolf whisperer,

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Speaker 1: even though that is a very cool name. Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: that's a cool name, a little a little more intense

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Speaker 1: than the dog whisperer, though they are, you know, genetically

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Speaker 1: very similar. It breaks my heart sometimes, and I might

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Speaker 1: get some flak for this, but of course I'm an

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Speaker 1: animal person. I love almost all animals, i'd say, but sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially with very uh specific breeds of dogs.

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Speaker 1: I look at them, you know, at a dog park,

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Speaker 1: and I think, man, you could have been a wolf

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Speaker 1: bro you know. Little was like, yeah, nam wolf, think, Well,

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Speaker 1: where's what I want to say. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of these quote unquote animal whispers they got the wrong idea.

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Speaker 1: They're getting it wrong. All this whispering. You gotta really

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Speaker 1: speak in a stern, strong voice to get animals to

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Speaker 1: do anything that's right, and never forget the whole right things,

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Speaker 1: no whispering. So let's get to the possibility that's somewhere

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Speaker 1: just in Idaho, there are giant wolves that are capable

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Speaker 1: of picking up a large, very heavy deer carcass. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not only picking it up, but flinging it over a

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Speaker 1: fence and then or what a guardrail and then just

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Speaker 1: jumping over the guard rail and getting out of there

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Speaker 1: when they see the headlights. Uh, that sounds awful bad.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna bar all of our windows in

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Speaker 1: every home in Idaho now because we can't handle this.

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Speaker 1: This is not right. Um. I have two things for

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Speaker 1: you just at the start. One, there are wolves in Idaho, fortunately,

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Speaker 1: and they can get quite large. They can get quite large,

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Speaker 1: but maybe not super like like we're talking. That's that

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Speaker 1: sounds like a monster wolf, like a dire wolf exactly well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what what is thirty inches to the

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Speaker 1: to the shoulder mean to you? Or over six ft long?

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Speaker 1: That's the stat that I'm seeing on I d f

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Speaker 1: G dot Idaho dot gov. Just just throwing that out there.

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Speaker 1: Six ft long creatures just quite monstrous in my book. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know there's the tail. I can already tell I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be like the defender in this one, but

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Speaker 1: you could. Yeah, you're you're right. They are again wild

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Speaker 1: animals that you wouldn't want to tangle with. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: story depends on a couple of things here, Brianna. First

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Speaker 1: the size of the deer, right, was it a dough?

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Speaker 1: Was it like a full grown buck? Because that's we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a lot of extra weight. And then uh, secondly,

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Speaker 1: I'm mad. I I think we'll we'll get here. But

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Speaker 1: this ties into some very old stories about Idaho that

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Speaker 1: have yet to be verified. Oh yeah, they're all kinds

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Speaker 1: of stories about Idaho in places across you know what

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Speaker 1: is now the United States, but for a long time

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Speaker 1: was just the land that was is the thing that

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Speaker 1: was referred to as North America or a different place

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Speaker 1: or the New World or all of those things, or

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Speaker 1: just you know the place that it was before any

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Speaker 1: of that, where there are stories of things called skin

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Speaker 1: walkers that we've mentioned many times on this show. We've

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Speaker 1: explored a couple of times. Um, that's you know, when

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Speaker 1: you first hear that story, that's what that's where my

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Speaker 1: mind goes, Oh, this is a like, this is a

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Speaker 1: human wolf creature, right, or a humanoid wolf creature or

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Speaker 1: some kind of um, larger thing that can become a wolf. Again,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I believe that's what what your uncle

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Speaker 1: saw there, your step mom's uncle's saw, but it but

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Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like it. After hearing a story

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Speaker 1: like this, one of the first things you do is

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Speaker 1: you start searching around online. And one of the initial

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Speaker 1: places I landed, as I tend to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, is at Snopes, and that is to just

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Speaker 1: check out if there's anything reported similar to this, if

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Speaker 1: there's some kind of story re that's circulating around that

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Speaker 1: has some research into it that's already been done so

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Speaker 1: I don't have to do it all on my own. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you go to Snopes, you can check out a

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Speaker 1: story about Idaho wolves, and in this case, it was

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Speaker 1: I believe several social media posts that became a bit

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Speaker 1: viral that were then reposted a bunch. There were specifically

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Speaker 1: images of people holding up wolves who have been killed

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Speaker 1: in a hunt. And the wolves in these images look photoshopped.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying that they are. They look photoshopped

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Speaker 1: because of the size of the animals being held up.

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Speaker 1: They are as large as the adult usually males that

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Speaker 1: are holding them up. Not not in all cases, but

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Speaker 1: it is usually an adult male holding up the carcass

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Speaker 1: of a wolf, and it is the length of that person,

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Speaker 1: and it is as wide as that person at least.

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Speaker 1: And according to Snows, these are not necessarily images from

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Speaker 1: wolves in Idaho. There are. They've they've said here that

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Speaker 1: they cannot definitively establish the origins of all of the

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Speaker 1: photographs that have been seen according you know that are

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Speaker 1: attached to this Idaho wolves theory and or post. But

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Speaker 1: they have been able to find that some are from Montana,

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Speaker 1: from Wyoming, Minnesota, Alaska, Alberta, Manitoba, and other places in Canada.

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Speaker 1: Um and there were this is what it says on Snows.

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Speaker 1: The top three photographs, which appear to have the same

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Speaker 1: wolf within them, were posted to some hunting related website

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Speaker 1: and around two thousand nine, um and it was identifying Edison, Alberta.

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Speaker 1: It's just something to put out there. Let's get weirder

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Speaker 1: with it too. I said that. I said a link

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Speaker 1: to you guys, because uh, fretting fans of cryptids may

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Speaker 1: be familiar with something that's kind of a deep cut

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Speaker 1: cryptod which is tied to this area of the world.

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Speaker 1: It is known as the shumka okn or the way

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Speaker 1: less cool ring Docus, two very different names describe the

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Speaker 1: same thing. It's um so the wolves in Idaho there

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Speaker 1: are about eight hundred to one thousand gray wolves, and Matt,

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Speaker 1: you're spot on with trying to figure out the photo

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Speaker 1: shopping of that, because it can be very easy to

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Speaker 1: do and very subtle, right, uh Like, look at the

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Speaker 1: dire wolves in Game of Thrones. They're convincing they are

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Speaker 1: not that big in real life. The ring docus, if

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Speaker 1: it is real is this thing has been called you know,

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Speaker 1: they used to call it the like the dog fee

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Speaker 1: for the dog taker because in the ancient war in

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Speaker 1: Native lore, these things were known for sneaking into camp

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Speaker 1: sites and stealing full grown dogs, similar to the way

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Speaker 1: that the wolf Brianna's relatives saw carried away the deer.

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Speaker 1: So if you look through the stories of this crypto

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Speaker 1: in particular, then you see that this is a very

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Speaker 1: very old myth. The first name we gave Shumko warakan

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Speaker 1: in a native language, translates to carrying off dogs like

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Speaker 1: they had an m o. And they were accepted as

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Speaker 1: a fact rather than a legend. And if you go past,

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Speaker 1: you know, European expansion and colonization of this part of

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Speaker 1: what became the United States, if you get to the

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Speaker 1: post European arrival, then you see that European transplants we're

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Speaker 1: talking about this as well as well as people who

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Speaker 1: later went on to live in Idaho. So like with

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Speaker 1: these stories of crypto stories, there's a lot of kind

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Speaker 1: of a long game and telephone and equivalent of he said,

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Speaker 1: she said, sort of stuff that can't ever quite be confirmed,

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Speaker 1: like legends of some kind of North American hyena, for instance,

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Speaker 1: which are not canines. But we'll let it go. The

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Speaker 1: here's why this story I think takes a different turn.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna send this to you guys. There is, allegedly,

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Speaker 1: Matt I'm sure you already saw this. There is allegedly

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Speaker 1: a taxidermi canad that maybe a ring docus that has

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Speaker 1: not been conclusively identified by biologists like no one, no

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Speaker 1: one can exactly figure out what it is. And this

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Speaker 1: is meant to be quite large. Ben, I'm I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at the picture, and it's hard to get a sense

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Speaker 1: of scale. Yeah, there's not a banana nearby, right, But

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Speaker 1: do range in size, don't they? They do? And then

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Speaker 1: we have a whole other story about why banana flavored

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Speaker 1: candy tastes different in comparison to the bananas you can

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Speaker 1: buy the store today. It's the problems of cloning story

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Speaker 1: of another day. But yeah, I want to get a

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Speaker 1: look at this. You're right now. The size is a

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Speaker 1: little bit tough to gauge, but it's definitely it's definitely

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Speaker 1: pretty big. Based on I would say the brackets and

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Speaker 1: the screws that you can see in the back there,

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Speaker 1: it looks kind of like a hyena that you think, yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: it's Uh. It's also got something a couple of features

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Speaker 1: that could be identified with hyenas, Like notice the difference

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Speaker 1: in length between the hind legs and the four legs. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This creature is apparently shot in Madison Valley, Montana in

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Speaker 1: eight six, sold to a taxidermist who stuffed it, had

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Speaker 1: no idea what it was, knew it wasn't quite a wolf,

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Speaker 1: So this guy, Joseph Sherwood, said, we'll call it the

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Speaker 1: Ring Docus and and still allegedly people have no idea

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Speaker 1: what it is. So do you think it's possible that

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Speaker 1: are Haller's relative saw something wolf like but not like

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Speaker 1: a wolf? I don't know. I mean if he lives

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Speaker 1: in Ida, who's probably seen wolves before, right, maybe? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'd think maybe or at least aware of them, you

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Speaker 1: know where, will make them both of them? Yeah? Wow?

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Speaker 1: They bingo? Uh it was it was? It was that bad? Okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's an inside joke. We have to

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Speaker 1: let people in on. Somebody made a listener made a

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Speaker 1: something I want you to know bingo card and was

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Speaker 1: that one of them? Though? Pun I think it had

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Speaker 1: It was terrible puns so bad that you can hear

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Speaker 1: Paul doing something no looking at glass door to make

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Speaker 1: sure he's being paid enough. That's it. That's it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned that I think we mentioned in previous episode

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Speaker 1: was long it maybe a baby food? There must have

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Speaker 1: been one that I was on adventures for. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: what do you think? What do you think? Matt? Back

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Speaker 1: to that question, do you think it's possible that maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a ring dorcas? What is it called ring dorcus?

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Speaker 1: Whenever I keep hearing it, it sounds like a name

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Speaker 1: that like a mean older brother would call their like

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Speaker 1: sniveling little sibling. It's hey, hey, out of my room,

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Speaker 1: ring docus and maybe a kind of hocus focus. I

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Speaker 1: just asked that we put some respect on the cryptid's name,

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Speaker 1: respect that you know, we don't really the ring dorcas

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Speaker 1: making funny out. So, yeah, you're right, we we don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what this person saw, but we do

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Speaker 1: know that there are wolves out in Idaho, and specifically

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Speaker 1: in Idaho. Removed wolves there from the endangered species list,

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Speaker 1: and it is now okay to hunt wolves in certain

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Speaker 1: not hunt wolves to remove wolves, usually through non lethal force,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes if necessary, through lethal methods. Um, there's an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing you can read on there, just on that

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Speaker 1: website I d f G dot Idaho dot gov. The

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Speaker 1: other thing is that there's road fatigue that we've mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: and we've had a couple other callers specifically truckers right

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Speaker 1: in to talk to us about seeing it's usually a

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Speaker 1: dark figure kind of guy. He talked about like losing

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Speaker 1: time or whatever. Remember, and that was a long haul,

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Speaker 1: nighttime driving situation. And I believe you're specifically talking about

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Speaker 1: the legend of the black Dog. Yes, exactly the legend

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Speaker 1: of the black Dog, which is well, but the concept

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Speaker 1: is that you've been driving for a long time, or

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Speaker 1: just whatever is occurring, whatever the light is doing, to

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Speaker 1: just being generally tired and going through the monotony of

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Speaker 1: being on the road for a long time, especially in

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Speaker 1: a ITAs like Idaho, which, as you yourself stated there, Brianna,

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Speaker 1: it's a little flat, a little not too much going

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Speaker 1: on at times. Sammy, as the word I liked, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe you're you're relative like I thought he saw something

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Speaker 1: but didn't. But I'm not saying that's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: Who knows, Um, These are just possibilities from from the

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Speaker 1: ring docus to the black Dog to just a wolf

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Speaker 1: that was actually hunting and took something out and was

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Speaker 1: larger than usual. Do you know, do you know the

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Speaker 1: phrase that these wolves are sometimes described as so weird

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Speaker 1: they're called freak wolves. If you look up explanations for

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Speaker 1: there's this rich history of alleged uh hyena sightings in

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Speaker 1: the US or ring docas or whatever you wanna call it.

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Speaker 1: And one of the leading more rational explanations, I kid

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Speaker 1: you not, is that their freak wolves out there. Freaquel

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Speaker 1: sounds like it's a new single that will play on

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Speaker 1: a radio station. Are like an undiscovered Rick James. You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe put a howld in place of the air horn.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to the local band wherever you are that

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Speaker 1: has a band named free Wolf, because I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: exist or you're welcome and thank you. So this is exciting, um,

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Speaker 1: but it's also I think indicative of a weird trend

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Speaker 1: that we can't forget. And it's this. So, if you

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Speaker 1: have been paying attention to the discoveries of new animals

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Speaker 1: in the past few years, you've probably seen something amazing,

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Speaker 1: which is that we are discovering more and more animals

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Speaker 1: at a faster rate than in recent history. And the

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Speaker 1: reason that's happening is a little bit because we're uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've improved our methods as a species. But

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Speaker 1: I would argue mainly the bigger factor is the elimination

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Speaker 1: of the wild world, the elimination of wilderness. There's just

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Speaker 1: less there are fewer places to hide, and so wolves

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Speaker 1: in Idaho, specifically depend on who you talk to, are

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Speaker 1: on the decline in Idaho. Their lives are not particularly enjoyable.

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Speaker 1: You know, we said there are eight hundred to a

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Speaker 1: thousand farmers hate them would be the BuzzFeed headline, because

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Speaker 1: they're killing livestock, you know, because they're wolves. But is

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Speaker 1: it possible that as human beings encroach further into the

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Speaker 1: wilderness there are parts of the North American cotton and

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Speaker 1: they're still very wild. Is it possible that we are

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Speaker 1: encroaching upon the territory of animals that have yet to

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Speaker 1: be It's another bingo discovered by um, you know, by

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Speaker 1: modern society. I don't, oh, I just keep thinking about

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Speaker 1: the supercamps, you know what I mean? Dude? Maybe all

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Speaker 1: I know is that the wolves that are known to

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Speaker 1: exist currently in Idaho, the regular old wolves, not the freequelves.

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Speaker 1: Those range from sixty pounds to pounds. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think something a hundred ten pounds can pick up a

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Speaker 1: large deer carcass and launch it over a guardrail. So

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's a mystery for now, So thanks

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Speaker 1: again for calling in. We'll be right back after a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back with more listener

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Speaker 1: mail off. Mike Ben opposed the very important and valuable

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Speaker 1: question can you buy wolves? I don't think we none

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Speaker 1: of us know the answer. UM let us know that,

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Speaker 1: but then we considered an exotic pet and probably regulated

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Speaker 1: like wild animal. It's like buying a tiger or something,

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Speaker 1: or like a you know, a lemur. It is not

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Speaker 1: legal in our fair atropolis of Atlanta, Georgia to own

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Speaker 1: a wolf. So I guess the question I should have asked,

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Speaker 1: is is it possible to legally buy a wolf? But

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Speaker 1: apparently there are a lot of states you can own

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Speaker 1: them in, or own wolf hybrids in. Well, Well, I

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Speaker 1: can tell you another thing that's not legal to own

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Speaker 1: in our state or any other for that matter, and

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Speaker 1: that is meth. Meth is for boating, still and for

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Speaker 1: good reason. Nasty stuff. Anyone who's seen breaking bad can

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Speaker 1: attest to this. UM and a lot of the sources

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Speaker 1: for this story, UH come from Albuquerque and New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: where you know the manufacturer of meth UH is a

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Speaker 1: huge UH is a huge industry. UM largely because of

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Speaker 1: something involving perhaps a misconception that many folks might have

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Speaker 1: about meth. That's something that you think of as being

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Speaker 1: manufactured in ced you know, meth labs or you know facilities,

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Speaker 1: make shift facilities, you know, in basements or rundown houses.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that is not the case, as

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Speaker 1: we heard from Aaron, not to mention, uh, the heartbreaking

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00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: twist of a particular population that is really being affected

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Speaker 1: by this drug. Hey, guys, UH, my name is Aaron.

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Speaker 1: Feel free to use my voice on your podcast if

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Speaker 1: you need to. I'm calling because I just heard one

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Speaker 1: of you say, I forget who it was, one of

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00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: you say, um, something about mess being made domestically. UM.

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00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: I was just calling because I think you guys were

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Speaker 1: talking about the cartel. UM. I just wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know that it is actually I guess the majority

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00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: of it is produced by the cartel. Now, um and

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Speaker 1: this used to be I guess privileged law enforcement information,

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Speaker 1: but UM, yeah, the cartel is even using Native American

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00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: UH reservations to help traffic their products throughout the West

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00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: because these reservations typically tend to be UH I guess

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00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: law enforcement presence there is much lower than elsewhere. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel free to look into the issue things.

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Speaker 1: One note, Uh, neth is decriminalized, I believe in some

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Speaker 1: parts of the US, Oregon at least, or Portland's well yeah,

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00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: all drugs, you know. And and this is a huge

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Speaker 1: argument to be had in a whole another conversation for

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Speaker 1: another day, like what happens when you um prohibit the

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00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: use and sale of substances. You get situations like you

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Speaker 1: have with the cartel's swooping in and wreaking havoc on

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Speaker 1: populations such as Native Americans because they're doing whatever they

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00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: can to dodge law enforcement. Um. And and this is

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00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: very much true. It looks to be, at least in

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Speaker 1: the article that I found, which was a couple of

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00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: years old, about nine. Uh, this is so. Yeah, around

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00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: of meth amphetamine that is, you know, circulated in the

424
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: United States is manufactured across the border in Mexico by

425
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: drug cartels. Yeah. And there's there's something interesting that Aaron

426
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: brings up here. Uh. I think we all noticed we

427
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: said this may have formerly been privileged law enforcement information.

428
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for clearing this up for us,

429
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: because the more you think about it from the perspective

430
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: of cartel leadership or management. I guess they have middle

431
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: management too, I'm sure. Umah. The more you think about it,

432
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: the more it makes sense for exactly the motivation you

433
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: described NOL, the the um, the the goal of avoiding

434
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: law enforcement as much as possible for anyone not aware. Uh.

435
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: Here in the US, Uncle Sam Racket guizes the inherent

436
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: rights of tribes as what are called domestic dependent nations

437
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: tribal severenity. We talked about this a little bit in

438
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: the past. I think how there are different legal systems

439
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: in place on reservations. Uh so it is quite possible,

440
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: and I don't have this yet. I think we'd have

441
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: to do a full episode on this to to get

442
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: all of the facts. But it is possible that uh

443
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: maybe some level of that local tribal enforcement could be

444
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: compromised or could be bribed. You know. Well, it's one

445
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: of these things to where I mean again not to

446
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: paint with two broader brush here, but its one of

447
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: these things where it's like, we give Native Americans that

448
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: that sovereignty that you described in that autonomy when it

449
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: been when it suits us, and then when it doesn't,

450
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: we'll figure out a way to swoop in and take

451
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: advantage of their land and their situation, you know what

452
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean. Um, And I'm again, I know I'm generalizing

453
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: there a little bit that does seem to be the attitude.

454
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: And when it comes to actually protecting them or getting

455
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: them say COVID vaccines or what have you, that's that's

456
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: another story. Then it's like, hey, you're on your own.

457
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: You you wanted independence, you know, have it. But um,

458
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 1: there's a story I found in the Albuquerque Journal from

459
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: seen talking about two a pair of brothers, Louis Uh

460
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: and Miguel Rangel r k Um, thirty six and forty

461
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: four years old, who were working for the Cinelo A

462
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: drug cartel and actually set up a hub, a distribution

463
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: hub near Farmington on a Navajo reservation there back in

464
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: where they were selling meth uh that they that was

465
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: manufactured across the border by the Sinaloa cartel. Um they

466
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: rented a house there and they recruited um people living

467
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: on the Navajo reservation and also you know others. But

468
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: the reason they targeted uh, the folks on the Navo

469
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: reservation was because of exactly what we're talking about. That

470
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: they had this kind of like almost off the books

471
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: kind of situation where they weren't perhaps not in the

472
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: line of sight of traditional law enforcement as much. Um.

473
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: And this is something that they're being that they're capitalizing on.

474
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: And not only for the distribution. I mean, we know

475
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: for a fact that First nation communities are often hotbeds

476
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: for drug addiction and and for alcoholism, and for a

477
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: lot of these in suicide just because of the not

478
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: by their own doing, but poor conditions and and unemployment

479
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: and malnourishment and things like that, you know, and the

480
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: crushing intergenerational effects of you know, centuries of persecution. Right.

481
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: I think that the bill comes to to your point. No,

482
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: there is a there are a number of other factors too. Right,

483
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about areas that are largely rural. Right, it's

484
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: easier to get away with things away from the spotlight. Uh.

485
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: We're also talking about as messed up as it is

486
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: to say, we're also talking about what some people would

487
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: see as an economic opportunity in an area, that is,

488
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: in areas that are often deprived of economic opportunities. And

489
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: to your point about convenience, we could go even further, right,

490
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: convenience in hypocrisy on the part of the US government

491
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: and say that, uh, maybe there are officials affiliate with

492
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam who have, for one reason or another, been

493
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: able to turn a tacit blind eye to to this epidemic.

494
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: And it seems very I don't know about you, guys,

495
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: but it seems very much like an epidemic. When you

496
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: say it does it really does. Yeah, especially in terms

497
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: of ben Off. Mike, you're talking about a stat that

498
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: you ran across um which was a staggering per scentage

499
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: of violent crime associated specifically with the meth trade that

500
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: happens on First Nation's lands. Yeah, yeah, you're right. This

501
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: is uh, this is pretty somber stuff. So, since the

502
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: introduction of methamphetamine to these lands, FBI offices located in

503
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: what they referred to as Indian Country, which is pretty

504
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: much just a it's a group name for all of

505
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: these areas, they estimated that forty to of the violent

506
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: crime cases they investigate involved methamphetamine. That means that could

507
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: mean one or two things. That could mean either uh

508
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: the alphabet guys are prioritizing investigating that, or it could

509
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: just be a profoundly disturbing sense of the problem right

510
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: of the degree to which meth has infiltrated these at communities,

511
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: man can I I I just want to make a confession.

512
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry you guys. I I don't know a

513
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: lot of people will dislike this. When I hear these

514
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: kinds of stories and reporting on things like this, I

515
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: feel so much like a narc or like a I

516
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: don't know, like a cop, where like I I want

517
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: to I want to take down people who are putting

518
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: meth in anyone's hands Like that is so just not

519
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: not the person doing the meth. My god, come on,

520
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: that's like it is someone. And that's why it's a

521
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: tricky conversation because like, on the on the one hand,

522
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: we're all adults and we can make our own choices.

523
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: But a drug like that that is so incredibly addictive, um,

524
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: and it offers like an outlet or like a kind

525
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: of an escape for folks that are maybe living a

526
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: life that isn't the life that they would have chosen,

527
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, for themselves. That is the opportunistic part. It's

528
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: one thing for like you know, yuppies in New York

529
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: do and coke on boardroom tables or something like that.

530
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: That's its own thing. Uh, this is very much a predatory,

531
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 1: you know, very very very predatory. And then you know, Matt,

532
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: I have to confess when you were building up to

533
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: saying that, and you're saying what I'm saying, I'm gonna

534
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: say something a lot of people might have a problem with.

535
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: I swear to god, dude, I've known you for more

536
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: than a decade, and I thought, is mad about to

537
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: say I love math? I just together it's I want

538
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: to double I want to double back really quickly though, too.

539
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: And just to say what I just said about yuppies

540
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: doing you know, coke in New York City or whatever

541
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: that has because of prohibition of drugs, a trail of bodies,

542
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: and that's associated with and a trail of um people

543
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: taking advantage of people that are less fortunate along the

544
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: supply chain of the cocaine trade and the cartels, because

545
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: the cartels are where that drug is coming from. Two.

546
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: So I say legalize at all, get rid of the cartels.

547
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: People make their own choices. But then again, our corporations

548
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: any less targeting and insidious. Would the corporations say, oh,

549
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: let's leave the First Nations people alone, no meth for them, right? No,

550
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: they would say they are adults, they can make their

551
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: own choices, and they can, but this is different. This

552
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: feels very uh insidious. And again I'm not sure where

553
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: to even fall when it comes to something like meth

554
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: or heroin, but I do know that the fact that

555
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: it's illegal is what causes these situations where we seeing

556
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: things about women being targeted, uh to traffic, you know,

557
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: in these reservations. Yeah, we're seeing that specifically Native American

558
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: women in certain certain areas. Tryan tribes there you can

559
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: you can search for this thing not on our land,

560
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: and there there's a title here, Tribes cartels Luring women

561
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: to traffic myth. You can learn about the true human

562
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: impact on the you know, on that level as well.

563
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had other listeners right to us and

564
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: called to us specifically talking about meth and families getting

565
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: caught up in trafficking meth. Um like a you know,

566
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: a mother or a wife or a husband or somebody

567
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: who just happens to be selling meth and now that's

568
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: their life. It's just, uh, it's terrible, it's it's really terrible. Well,

569
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, there so many things wrapped up in this

570
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: three things I'll say briefly, so I cannot be the

571
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 1: only person listening to the show today who saw meth

572
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: amphetamine go through rural towns like a goddamn tornado, you know,

573
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: like a natural disaster. And when we see that level

574
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: of chaos and destruction, we have to ask who benefits, right,

575
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: Because to the point about legalization of all drugs, whether

576
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: you are for it, whether you are against it, whether

577
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: you are somewhere on the spectrum of like decriminalization or

578
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: something like that, there's no going around the fact there

579
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: is a huge industry built entirely upon the war on drugs.

580
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: And yes, some of these substances irreparably ruined lives beyond

581
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: the point of no return. Uh. And then you know,

582
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: there is a profit motive for for a lot of

583
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: these things. There is a system that exists that profits

584
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: off of drugs being illegal. And it doesn't just involve cartels.

585
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: I would argue, Oh, we're talking about drugs that tore

586
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: through rural communities. Let's talk about oxy content and things

587
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: like that. A legal drug quote unquote manufactured by a

588
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: massive corporation that profited hugely off of off of the

589
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: misery of these people. And then you know, got a

590
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: little slap on the wrist and and paid a fine. Um.

591
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: But I remember a time when things like you know,

592
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: oxycontent and percocet and uh delauded and things like that

593
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: that were very heavily regulated, no doubt painkillers, but just

594
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: sweeping through those parts of the country and ruining whole

595
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: lives and whole families lives. Um, And those are legal drugs.

596
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: So I just don't see the distinction, you know what

597
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, it's it's all on an equal playing

598
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: field of nasty to me, and you might as well

599
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: just get rid of the part that actually, you know,

600
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: decapitates their competition or you know, like families that live

601
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: in their wake and try to speak up against what

602
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: they're doing. And I'm obviously referring to the cartels. Yeah,

603
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: And that goes to the second point of what I make,

604
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: which is is probably chiefly about that distinction. So much

605
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 1: of this goes into branding. There are definitely people you

606
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: know who are currently on some form of amphetamine, and

607
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: it's just it's not called meth. It's not quite the

608
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: same thing. But remember adderall contains amphetamine, and adderall is

609
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: a drug of choice for thousands of brilliant college students

610
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: and college professors as well. The distinction. I don't know.

611
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: It's like remember the racist laws regarding prosecution for powder

612
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: cocaine versus crack cocaine, right, there was there was a

613
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: systemic issue at play here. The third the third point

614
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: I would I would say that salient in regard to

615
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: this is that it's an ongoing thing that is not

616
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: getting national coverage, is it? I mean, I see, No,

617
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: you did a great job digging up some some of

618
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: the local journalistic work from Alburtquerque and from and we

619
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: we saw multiple other regional sources. But where is the

620
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: national atta mention, you know what I mean? And how

621
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: long our cartel is going to get away with this?

622
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: Like I I do think, like honestly, if you wanted

623
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: to depower the cartels morals and ethics society, the best

624
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: way to do it is to change the legal environment

625
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: such that their endeavors are no longer profitable. You're right.

626
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: That's the easiest and probably the most effective way to

627
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: do it, and it probably won't ever happen. I mean

628
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: maybe with marijuana. I think marijuana will be legal around

629
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: the US eventually, or at the very least to criminalize,

630
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: But you know, I hope to see it in the

631
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: next handful of years under this administration, I don't know,

632
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: because I mean, at least shift the money to be

633
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: made to the right places and to places that we

634
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: can actually benefit from, like infrastructure, you know, uh, roadwork,

635
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: you know what? What would have you things that actually

636
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: benefit us as citizens? You know, a tax that stuff

637
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: and and uh and put to put it to good

638
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: use as opposed to just literally disappearing across the border.

639
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: Colorado definitely made a great case for a lot of

640
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: the political class when they made it legal to sell marijuana.

641
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: Remember what happened. They may boothloads of money and they

642
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: sold out a weed because everybody was going straight to Colorado,

643
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: and they walked off with a huge surplus. Uh. So

644
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. Like they are all kinds of

645
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: uh feel good statements that politicians and some business leaders

646
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: will make regarding this situation. But ultimately, if you want

647
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: to predict how things will most likely fall out, you

648
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: have to start with the numbers. You have to start

649
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: with the money. Um, which is depressing, but it's true.

650
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, Breaking Bad explored it as well. Do you

651
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: want to know something else depressing? Uh? If you owe

652
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: d on an opioid Uh, not good. But there is

653
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: that thing called I think it's in the Locksonne. Um, yeah,

654
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: zone can revive you if you o D and someone

655
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: discovers you and can get that drug to you. That

656
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: one of them. Narcan is one, nasal nlock Zone is another,

657
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: which I think Narcan is like the the brand name

658
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: of or whatever. But um, if you o D on

659
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: meth there's not much that can be done for you

660
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: if you fall asleep and go and you know, to

661
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: a coma and then just don't wake up. Um, it's

662
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: pretty terrifying. And only at least as of in two

663
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, around people died. That's an estimate of directly

664
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: from methamphetamine, uh usage, So you know that's overall. That's

665
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: not a lot, but that's thousands of people. Um, Just

666
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: please be careful out there, whoever you are, if you're

667
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: listening to this, just be careful with any drugs like

668
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: this because as as we're all saying here, you can

669
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: find meth or accidentally take it because it can come

670
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: in these little white pills that look like any other

671
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: little white pill. And just be careful not to mention

672
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: things like ecstasy or you know, pressed pills that you're

673
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: buying on the black market that could contain god knows what,

674
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: uh not to be preachy or anything, but you know,

675
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: when you're buying say cocaine or anything that comes in

676
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: a powder form and you don't know if it's been

677
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: cut with something like us except what is it um

678
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: uh fentanel. You know, something that literally can kill you dead. Um.

679
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: So if you're out there doing that stuff, just be

680
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: cautious and just know who you're getting it from. And uh,

681
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: if you're living this lifestyle, have one of these things,

682
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: you know, have one of those those things that can

683
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: revive you sas someone who can find it on you

684
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: and help you. I know that sounds extreme, but it's

685
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: not untrue. But yeah, you're right. With methods, you're kind

686
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: of out of luck. The problem becomes uh exacerbated, becomes

687
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: compounded when we consider how the legal system treats disadvantaged

688
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: people who are caught up in the drug game, you know,

689
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:12,479
Speaker 1: like you are. The prison system in the US has

690
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: come under a lot of valid criticism because it is

691
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: not rehabilitative. Right, it's punitive. You are were being punished.

692
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 1: You are not uh, you are not in some way

693
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: being rehabilitated to enter society in in a productive way.

694
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: And so for a lot of people, you know, you

695
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: might have messed up once, right, you might have messed

696
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: up twice. You know, you just got caught at the

697
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: wrong time in your wild party years, and now you

698
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: are in the system. You're in prison for years, and

699
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: then when you get out, if you go back to

700
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: an economically disadvantaged area, you might end up saying, dang,

701
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 1: the best the best like prospect I have is going

702
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: back to selling selling drugs because no one will hire me,

703
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. We're whether through incompetence or

704
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: sinister design, a feedback loop has been created, and it

705
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: is a feedback loop that occurs in every major American city,

706
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: and it occurs in every rural area in the US somewhere.

707
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: And the question is, I think all three of us

708
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: are are posing some brilliant questions like how do we

709
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: how do we navigate it? Do we just say do

710
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

711
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: That's not going to help the children or the relatives

712
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: or the victims of people who have become intensely addicted

713
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: to a substance. Um. I don't know, I don't know

714
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: what the answer is. I think some form of decriminalizational help.

715
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: But also, honestly, I think since the War on drugs,

716
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: there's been a conspiracy, not on everybody's part, but there

717
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: has been a conspiracy amongst a faction in people, a

718
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: school of thought in this country to keep things, to

719
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: have these heavy penalties, keep things uh illegal and then

720
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: do backroom deals like Iran Contra only worked because cocaine

721
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: is illegal, so it was able to become a black

722
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: bag income stream. If if that stuff was decriminalized, not

723
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: even legal, it was decriminalized, then there would the question

724
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 1: would be like, well, what are we are we trying

725
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: to make a lot of illegal money off selling Adville. Basically,

726
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: I'm not saying cocaine and avillar are the same. I'm

727
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: not I've I've never experienced cocaine. I've had my fill Dadville.

728
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: I thought you, I've never tried Adville. But but you

729
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, you know, like I feel like

730
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: that's something that's preventing us from finding a solution here.

731
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: The longer this country takes to find a solution, then

732
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: the more people are who are going to be suffering

733
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: from enormous tragedy, you know. And I didn't know, like

734
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: I did not know before we got this call from Aaron,

735
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: I had I had no idea that this epidemic was ongoing,

736
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I didn't either, honestly, Um,

737
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 1: and it is absolutely disturbing. So first, and for sticking

738
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: on bingo, guys, do you think I was audibly disturbed

739
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: by the topic. No, no, no, I'm not not audibly

740
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: you see it in your eyes though, I can see

741
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: you got that a little. And we want to hear

742
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: about your experiences if you have grown up in these communities.

743
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: We've we've received fantastic correspondence that taught us about the

744
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: assimilation efforts of the US government that specifically, Uh, we

745
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: want to also know what you think the solutions are.

746
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: Because the cartels are powerful. They are incredibly powerful. They

747
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: are ruthless, and they are smart. And there is a

748
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: war in all but name going on in several South

749
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: American and Central American countries between governments and the cartels.

750
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: The cartels are very well funded. So is there a

751
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: way to stop it? What? What is the best way?

752
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm haunted by this, you guys, I'm flummixed

753
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: because I don't like Usually we can point to something

754
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: and we could say, even if this will never happen,

755
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: this would solve problem X. But I just don't know.

756
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: In this case, I really do not know. Well with that,

757
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: will take another quick break and be back with more. Listener, ma'am,

758
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: and we are back this. This is an important one

759
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: that came to us from an anonymous source. I have

760
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,479
Speaker 1: some ties with some of this stuff just going in,

761
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: but it's a question that a lot of people don't

762
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: think about, and I'd like to explore it with you guys.

763
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: I would just say before we even get into it,

764
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: then I think this might be a whole episode. Yes, yeah,

765
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: I agree, Um, I agree, hey to an episode on well,

766
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if you would like to. I'm not trying

767
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: to tell you to do it, but do an episode.

768
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: Um private intelligence agencies. So, I mean, it's been brought

769
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: to my attention that they're intelligence agencies now operating in

770
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: the United States and other nations that are not found

771
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: to any state after UM. So this is a concern

772
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: of mine and I would like to see what you

773
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: guys can come up with with your little of research,

774
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: and you know your ability, you get deep into topics

775
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: because you guys are really really good at that. Can

776
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: you come in in a very level headed way. As always,

777
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: I love the show. It keeps me occupied. Um, have

778
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: a good day, man, Thanks so much, Anonymous. Uh, this

779
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: this is everything's fine, right. Uh. This this is something

780
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: that yeah, I think we can all agree. Wish more

781
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: people would talk about out in the open. Uh. Private

782
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies are a big, big, big thing, and they

783
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: are right at the crux of the ongoing debate over

784
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: the role of the private versus the public sector. Um,

785
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: you've heard of private intelligence agencies before, you probably just

786
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: haven't heard them described as p I A s SO.

787
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: One of the biggest private intelligence agencies and spoiler alert, folks,

788
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: one we're going to focus on, uh for at least

789
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: part of our full episode on this phenomenon is the Pinkerton's.

790
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: You guys remember the Pinkerton's Pinkerton Detective Agency. Wait that

791
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: that wasn't some kind of government arm. Well it wasn't.

792
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: Originally it was a private It just started as like

793
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: a detective agency by this guy, Alan Pinkerton, wasn't that

794
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: his name? In eighteen fifty Uh still around today. They

795
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: are a subsidiary of a security service outfit called Securitas

796
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: a B. I guess they just started at the at

797
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: the beginning of the alphabet at the end of whatever.

798
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: They had a lot of work to do. They spent

799
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: most of the time thinking of, uh the first name Securitas.

800
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, this this is the parent company of the

801
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: Pinkerton National Detective Agency, and they kind of ride a

802
00:51:54,040 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: line between a private security detective force and functioning as

803
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: an intelligence agency. This is kind of like, you know

804
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: how in the world of physics, when you drill down

805
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: into smaller and smaller units of measurement, you start to

806
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: see the rules of reality get a little bit fuzzy.

807
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: The closer you look at some of these private detective

808
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 1: agencies or security agencies, it becomes increasingly difficult to draw

809
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: a sharp line between them and private intelligence agencies, which

810
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: take a number of forms. Right, if you're a longtime

811
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: listener of this show, you already know a lot about

812
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: one p I a Cambridge Analytica. They are private intelligence agency.

813
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: They collect data and then they leverage it for the

814
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: prifical clients. I forgot that's what they were. My god,

815
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, I've also heard of something called SIG or

816
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: s i G, which and I've only seen it mentioned

817
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: a few times in passing and research over like over

818
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: the past god a couple of years. I didn't realize

819
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: they were a private intelligence agency as well. It's like,

820
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: are these things just everywhere? Because I'm thinking about private

821
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: private investigators, right, I'm in my mind maybe I think

822
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: I've melded the two concepts together rather than an actual

823
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: intelligence agency. Um, but this is this is a whole

824
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: new thing for me. Is blowing my mind. Yes, SIG

825
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: is Strategic Insight Group, intelligence firm. That's the thing is

826
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: with these with these outfits, they're not they are not

827
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: beholden to serve a government, right the way that intelligence

828
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: agencies in theory are when they're state powered. I would

829
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,479
Speaker 1: I would argue that the private and public sector gets

830
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: real muddy when you get to things like the CIA,

831
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: which corporations that they serve versus governments because a lot

832
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: of them went to the same schools together. Right. Uh, anyway,

833
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: maybe that's a bit too far, but uh, but these

834
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: these intelligence agencies are not all cut from the same

835
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: cloth either. Some are simply supplying on the ground data

836
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: to investment firms or corporations whomever their client, maybe um

837
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: others provide Like I used to be, Matt, I know

838
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: for sure you and maybe you as well know I

839
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: used to send updates from a private intelligence agency that

840
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: would that would send me updates a place called Stratford

841
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: without the D and that was primarily it was just

842
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: a fascinating geopolitical read, you know what I mean. There's

843
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,479
Speaker 1: nothing in those newsletters that's like, hey, oil money, put

844
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: your money, you know, put your money here and take

845
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: it out of here, or anything like that. But these

846
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: companies wield an enormous amount of influence and a lot

847
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: of like like some of those private military contracting companies

848
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: we talked about, a lot of them thrived by not

849
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,439
Speaker 1: being in the spotlight. Like you you heard of Cambridge Analytica.

850
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: Have you heard of the Archimedes Group? Have you heard

851
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: of Black Cube? I mean, these names are awesome. I mean,

852
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: this is the big question is first off, there's nothing

853
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: wrong with people doing this. There's nothing wrong with you know,

854
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: maybe let's see, let's say like you are, you are

855
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: recently retired, and you have served as a member of

856
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: an intelligence apparatus. There's nothing Depending on how you navigate it, right, caveat.

857
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: There's nothing inherently illegal about you going and becoming a

858
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: consultant for one of these places, or like you retire

859
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: from the police force and you become a consultant for

860
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 1: the Pinkerton's, you know what I mean. The the part

861
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: where it gets conspiratorial and weird and sticky and dangerous

862
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: is when we question how much influence these intelligence agencies

863
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: have over state level actions, how much intelligence, how much

864
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: influence they may have on what might be considered insider trading.

865
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: It's it's weird because this sounds this sounds like a

866
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: very specific niche, right, but it's not. It's it's huge, man, dude.

867
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: I've just I've went to the website for Black Cube

868
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: and it says right on the front, a select group

869
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: of veterans from the Israeli elite intelligence units. Uh. Is

870
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: that like Massad that specializes in tailored solutions to complex

871
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 1: business and litigation challenges. Yeah, it's like cream of the crop.

872
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: Now now we're for hire. That's so that's so scary

873
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: to me, even though I don't know. It's that y'all

874
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: have nothing to hide. There's no reason you should be

875
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 1: worried about this kind of thing this is for, you know,

876
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, big companies, people who are trying

877
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,919
Speaker 1: to do litigation make business decisions. They want to get

878
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: everything they can on their opponents, or you know, people

879
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: who may someone they might buy or affirm they might acquire.

880
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: But still it just well, I don't know, it feels

881
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: feels weird. And sometimes this can be you know, relatively passive.

882
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: Like again, it runs the gamut of what I would

883
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: call the nts. I n T not a layer of

884
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: the rings reference unfortunately today that the tree is right. Yeah, yeah,

885
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: that's the ends with an E. Oddly enough, are real

886
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: and run all intelligence agencies. That's why things seem to

887
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: move so slowly at times. But yeah, I n T

888
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 1: ns uh. This refers to the let's think of them

889
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: as the genres of intelligence that can be collected. There's

890
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: things like human humane intelligence. I have a live source

891
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: every every other Um. Well, you wouldn't do it on

892
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: a routine. You wouldn't do it on a pattern because

893
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: you get caught. But let's say like you check a

894
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: dead drop every day and if you get the right

895
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: coded message, then you meet up at a little cafe

896
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: or tea house in Tehran and you get the scoop

897
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: on how the government's reacting to stucks net or something

898
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: like that. That's human intelligence, signals intelligence, collecting electronic communications. UH.

899
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: Strategic intelligence is kind of an applied version of these things,

900
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: where you synthesize concepts and you analyze this raw data

901
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: and then you use it as the blueprint or the

902
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: starting point the square one for forming policy or even

903
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: militaristic plans. So this stuff is real, and it's crazy

904
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: to admit that private companies can do it all the

905
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: time and do it all the time, But when you

906
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: think about it, it makes a dangerous kind of sense

907
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: because a lot of the people who work in these

908
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: situations they may be called consultants, but a lot of

909
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: them are a little more in common with Liam Neeson

910
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: and take it. I've got a very specific set of skills.

911
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: You know. Don't take their daughters, jeez, or their wives

912
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: or their husbands or whoever John Wick style. Don't touch

913
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: their dogs, you know what I mean, Just just just

914
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: as a preview there. Um, I know I've got to

915
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: cut this short because we're going over time, but the

916
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: this is such an awesome suggestion, anonymous, and I greatly

917
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: appreciate it. I would also be interested in hearing from

918
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: people who have participated in private intelligence agencies if you

919
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: are able to speak about it, if you're comfortable doing so.

920
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: But we, of course, uh we we will, of course

921
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: will do our level best to keep you anonymous. That

922
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: is your preference. We have your back. We just think

923
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: that this is a nest of conspiracies. There's a Matroshka

924
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: doll of conspiracies, and it more than deserves a full episode.

925
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: It might even have to you know, it might even

926
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: have to be like a list episode where we just

927
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: take five or six and the big players, and then

928
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: we look at their exploits. We call them all and

929
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: try and get interviews with all of them, and then

930
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: we pit them against each other in some kind of

931
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat style private intelligence combat. There we go. I mean,

932
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: like right now, like any other privatized industry, there are

933
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: a few big players that overwhelmingly dominate the space because

934
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: they're dug in. They have the access, they have the resources,

935
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: they have the scale. Uh. They they are not wolf whispers,

936
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: but let's call them Washington whisperers. They can get things

937
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: done with a very quick, quick phone call. And when

938
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: you see how that stuff actually works. When you get

939
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: close to how the espionage sausage is made here and

940
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's all skullduggery and spycraft, but when

941
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: you get close to it, it's it's scary how easily

942
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: some of these things can happen, and how much happens

943
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: in the shadows, you know what I mean, like past

944
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: the limit of the street light. Uh. So we'll pause here.

945
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: Thank you again, Anonymous Again, anybody who is comfortable writing

946
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: about this, uh, please let us know your opinion on

947
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: private intelligence agencies. Good work, they've done, bad work, They've

948
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: done stuff. More people should know about them. And then

949
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: also let us know, as we said earlier, your experience

950
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: if you are in a First Nation or Native American

951
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: community that is currently dealing with the methamphetamine epidemic or

952
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: with the cartels themselves. And then, of course, fellow canead fans,

953
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: what do you think to in Idaho? What have you see?

954
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: Let us know. We try to be easy to find

955
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: on the Internet. That's right. You can find us in

956
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: the usual social media spots. Of note, we are conspiracy

957
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: stuff on Facebook, conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. If you're

958
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,439
Speaker 1: a Facebook person, why not check out our Facebook group.

959
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, where you can participate in

960
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: the conversation in real time. That's right. Check it out

961
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: if you use Facebook. If you don't, Hey, you can

962
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: call us with your phone. Use that thing that uses

963
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: your what is that your mouth? Uh? You can talk

964
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: into your phone and we will hear you. Leave a

965
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: voicemail at one eight three three st d w y

966
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: t k uh. We you know we've we keep saying

967
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: this over and over, but please, first thing, what's the

968
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: name you want us to call? You can't we use

969
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: your audio on the air. Knock those out right up front.

970
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: Then tell us your story. Then if you want to

971
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: have a personal message to us or something silly or

972
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: whatever it is, you can say that. At the end,

973
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: we do ask that if you've got an extensive message

974
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: that's going to take longer than three minutes instead of

975
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: calling in, please send that to our email which is

976
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't

977
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I Heart Radio.

978
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i

979
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

980
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.