WEBVTT - Guitars & Guided Missiles: Jeff ‘Skunk’ Baxter’s Extraordinary Career 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:09.840 Really really, really really no One. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.720 Welcome to Really No, Really, Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.440 who can anecdotally claim that no one who subscribes to 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:17.280 our show has ever gotten skunked? 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.920 So isn't it worth subscribing if only for that bit 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:20.560 of protection? 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.319 Speaking of skunked, sometimes on this show we find a 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.520 person whose life story is so unique and unimaginable that 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.760 they themselves are really and such a fellow as Jeff 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.640 Skunk Baxter, a missile defense expert in counter terrorist authority 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.760 who has consulted for Congressional committees, the Pentagon, and the 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.520 US intelligence community, while also being renowned as a legendary 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.600 guitarist for artists like Elton John, Joni Mitchell, Dolly Parton, 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.879 Ringo star Barbara streisand and the list goes on and on. 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:50.520 Really No Really. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.159 Best known for his work as a founding member of 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.240 Steely Dan and with the Doobie Brothers, his versatility and 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.959 musicality has made him a hugely in demand session guitarist 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.080 from the seventies on through today, But in the mid eighties, 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.080 a series of chance encounters led to a second career 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.200 in the defense industry, where his innate ability to look 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.520 at existing technologies and see alternate ways to use them 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.920 led to a top tier consulting career for a litany 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.360 of major intelligence and defense agencies. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.400 Imagine Q from the James Bond movies. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.199 If He Could Shred and here to get his story 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.000 r two guys who also have multiple talents. We just 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.600 can't really discern what any of them are supposed to be. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:29.559 Jason and Peter. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:31.199 This is an. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:35.080 Unusual guest, and I'm meaning because the one intro I had, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.200 which I'm not going to use is our next guest 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.319 is an intelligence expert who counsels the Pentagon to keep 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.920 us safe and also played the solo on Ricky Dunne 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.520 Don't Lose That number is one, which is the really 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.440 no really, But the real intro is that he's one 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.040 of the most creative guitarists. I grew up with a 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.320 brother ten years older who really exposed me to music, 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.240 so I got to meet Wes Montgomery when I was 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.520 a kid, and some of the greatest guitarists. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:00.920 That must have been nice. 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.920 I had a sister fourteen years older whose entire record 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.480 collection was the original cast albums of Broadway shows. 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.000 Which is why you ended up on Broadway. I always 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.160 knew what a great guitarist was, and then I got 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.240 to listen to Jeff and meet Jeff. Would you like 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.440 to share his full name with your living Jeff Skunkbax. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.560 Jeff is one of the most innovative in creative guitars. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.519 So just listen to his new album and I went, 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.840 oh my god. So with that, without further ado, Jason 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.200 and I were talking about guitar. We just saw The 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.400 Grateful Dead and we saw it. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:34.639 John Mirror, Well, the thing that is, I'm sure it 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:36.720 isn't even a blip on your radar, but to me 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:43.040 is the most extraordinary thing. Are the musicians that can 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.440 improvise in their head. They're hearing the melodies in their 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.000 head and instantaneously it's coming out of their lip or 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.920 coming out of their instrument, coming out of their fingers. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.000 That translation process, to me is extraordinary. And that's what 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.440 Meyer was doing all night long. There's no way he 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.720 designed these solos. He's riffing in his head and it's 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.679 coming out the fingers, and I assume it's coming out 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:05.800 exactly as he hears it in his head. 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.280 Well, that's what I've alway I don't give guitar lessons. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.800 I only give two lessons. One is us a metronome, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.680 So if you can't groove, you're not gonna get any work. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:21.120 And number two, if you ever watch Oscar Peterson play, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:27.160 he's playing, but you can hear him going. Basically, he's singing. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.760 And I always tell anybody who wants to learn to 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.320 play the guitar is to sit down and sing while 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.560 you play, because eventually you'll be able to connect singing 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.640 the melodies in your head to your fingers, and that's 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.520 how you get what the psychologists call flow, where you 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.000 remove the conscious piece. And that's what most people do 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.400 when they're improvising, is that they're actually translating the voice 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.800 in their head to their fingers. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.040 I remember watching a great documentary years ago about Isaac Stern, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.240 the violinist in China, and there was a section where 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:09.560 he was teaching protege I mean really gifted young violinists, 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.480 and he was doing a masterclass and this young woman 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.640 got up and she played, you know, sixteen bars of 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.040 a piece and it sounded right, and he went, yeah, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.880 put the instrument down, sing it, sing what you just played, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.280 and she sang it and he said, now pick up 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.479 the instrument, sing it as you play it, and it 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.120 transformed absolutely. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:38.920 Playing and that was remarkable. Yeah, mostly because of phrasing. Yes, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.919 the melodies usually are pretty close, but the phrasing is 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.080 I would say sixty percent of why people enjoy what 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.039 you play, it's how you play it, not necessarily what 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:49.880 you're what you're playing. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.880 So could you take everybody up this speed of how 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.200 Steely Dan formed Steely Dan. Doobie Brothers came to Doobie 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.440 Brothers brought Michael McDonald in to fold. But what was 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.719 the bas background before that? Because you had a pretty 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.920 interesting childhood up until that point that got you there. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.360 Yeah. I grew up in Mexico City playing a lot 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:14.320 of rock and roll, learned to play the guitar because 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.040 my parents gave me a when I was nine years old. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.159 They gave me a guitar for Christmas, kissed me off 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.200 because I wanted a bicycle, but hung it on the wall. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.839 And then my friend Kurt Bundy, who was a guy 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.560 who lived in the apartment house two doors down, I said, 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.680 I'm taking guitar lessons and if I show you some chords, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.760 maybe we could play a little bit and I had 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.800 already studied classical piano for about five six years and 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.000 never really thought about the guitar. So I started to 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.719 play it and something the magic Beam whatever it was, 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.880 and went, yeah, this is it, this is where I 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.920 want to go. So that's kind of started it out. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.560 And then once you know three chords, you're now ninety 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.080 percent on top of every rock and roll song for 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:04.080 the late fifties early sixties. So I formed a band 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.599 with Abraham le Boreal, who was I was eleven, he 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.039 was twelve in Mexico City, and the next thing we knew, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.960 we were starting to get calls for gigs. And then 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.960 I got a call from Umberto Sisneros from the Julians, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.000 which was a very big rock and roll band at 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.840 the time, and they said, hey, would you maybe like 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.039 to come and do some gigs with us? And of 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.039 course I'm in id eleven years old. I'm eleven years old, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.760 Jesus God. And these bands, by the way, those locals Dorimo, 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.719 those hooli guns, those off some boys. These were big 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.040 Mexican rock and roll bands and famous bands. So now 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.719 I got a chance to play. And then my dad, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.000 who had a friend, a disc jockey named al Ross 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.719 in Washington, d C. Was sending him records because he 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.960 got so many records that he couldn't play. But he 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.679 sent two albums to my dad, hr Is a dirty 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.479 guitar player and Color in Funky by Howard Roberts. And 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.760 when I listened to those records changed my life because 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.359 I've never I never not only heard anybody play guitar, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.920 because I was listening to West Montgomery, Teddy Bunn, Kenny Burrell, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.160 you know all the cats. But this guy, I'd never 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.560 heard anything like it. Because the way he played, he wanted. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.080 He wanted you to come into the fold. So instead 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.760 of dropping a billion semi hemi demi quavers on top 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.640 of you, he opened up with melodies that you could 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.920 relate to and then took you in. And I thought, man, 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.920 this is amazing. So I learned everything note for note 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.119 and there. So from there it's you know, it's hard 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:41.920 to stay focused with you. I'll tell you why. The 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.520 other big part of this is you're you. You have 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:51.440 the one of the highest intelligence clearances. Correct. I'm not 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.680 going to get into that too much. What I will 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.720 say is I worked for the Department of Defense, among 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.520 other pope and I do have some some pretty high 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.560 clearances could allow me to do my job. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.360 How does a guy making his way in the wonderful, 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:12.280 beautiful world of pop music and rock music suddenly wind 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.360 up with the knowledge of the background, the experience, and 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.760 the inclination to start working in the missile defense the 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.280 United States government? How did that transition or how did 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.560 that addition? I should say, Well, actually come to me 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.280 fairly simple. The gentleman across the street his garage filled 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.440 with mud, and he was an earlerly gentleman, and so 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.040 I volunteered to help him dig it out. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.200 So I went over there and Doug and Doug and 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.040 we finally got the stuff. He said, watch, come in 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.199 for a beer. I said, sure, that's great. So I 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.280 went into his study and the walls were covered with 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:47.840 photographs of things like sidewinder missiles and the F one hundred, 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.400 the F one o six. He was an aeronautics engineer. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.760 He helped design the sidewinder missile. So we're having a beer, 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.160 and I said, yeah, I love love airplane, and so 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.640 I think it's the whole concept is really cool. I said, well, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.840 thank you very much for your help, and I'm going 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.520 to give you a subscription to Aviation Week in Space 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.760 Technology magazine, which I still subscribe to today, and I 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:18.280 started reading it fascinated, of course, because it was the 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.079 Russians called it Aviation Leak. It was translated an Honest 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.600 Way to Moscow the day I hit the the hour 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.959 after I hit the news stand in Washington, d C. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.840 So I started reading it. And just around that time 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:36.640 is when I started working for Roland and a Ki. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.840 They were electronics companies that focused on musical instruments, and 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.280 at the time we were just the government was just 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.360 beginning to understand the transition between the analog world and 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.280 the digital work. So as I read this stuff, I 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:57.120 kind of got this. I don't know. I store everything away, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.959 so I started away in some place in my mind. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.360 And then I was over in England and I met 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.640 the aviation senior aviation editor for James Defense Weekly, Nick Cook, 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.800 talking to him a little bit about this idea that 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.959 I had about maybe converting the navy as weapon system, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.679 which is an air defense system designed to protect the 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.440 surface battle and carry battlegroups, and maybe converting it to 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.200 do missile defense. But I needed some knowledge, so he 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:29.840 gave me an article that wasn't classified, but very few 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.360 people knew about that. Somebody in England had tracked the 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.319 Space Shuttle with an S band radar. So I'm reading this, 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.400 I thought, well, wait a minute. If you can track 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.040 the Space Shuttle, I wonder. So I went back to 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.040 LA and I talked to my buddy John over JPL, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.600 who was a steel guitar player as well. I said, John, 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.920 I need you to do some math for me. So 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.080 I gave him what I needed and he comes back 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.080 and says, are you looking to track something with a 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.320 a really low RCS RADO cross section? I said yeah, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.679 I said, well you can do it. Here you go, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.319 here's the proof. So I wrote an article on how 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.800 to convert the Navy Weapons system a system to do 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.800 theatore missile defense and gave it to Congress and Robacher, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.760 who then gave it to Kurt Weldon, who was the 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.160 vice chairman of the Armed Services Committee, who calls Dana 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.600 and says, what is this guy from Boeing or Raytheon? 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.600 And he goes, no, he's a guitar player for Thedobie Brothers. 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.000 And so I get a call from Kurt Weldon saying, 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.760 would you be willing to serve take a position on 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.520 the Armed Services Committee with what we're going to call 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.480 the Civilian Advisory Board on Missile Defense. I said, yeah, sure, 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.319 I guess so, and that started it all. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.080 Did people have problems with you in the music world 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.840 that I gotta run? I can only record for another 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.120 two hours because I have a meeting a missile defense. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:57.160 Then I got to take a phone call. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.920 So I'm doing a session with Ringo Star. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.600 Did people have problems with you in the music world 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.079 that I gotta I gotta run. I can only record 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:17.840 for another two hours because I have a meeting a 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.719 missile defense that I got to take a phone call. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.640 So I'm doing a session with Ringo Starr, wonderful guy, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:32.040 really sweet guy, and I'm playing steel. So we're doing 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:36.600 this song and I don't know, it's really kind of weird. 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.520 Ringo said, you know, I got a feeling that you're 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.760 going to have to leave. I know a little bit 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.319 about what you do, and I think you know you're 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.960 probably gonna have to leave. I said, well, I don't 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:55.200 think so. And Mark Hudson was producing it, and he said, yeah, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.000 I think we're okay. So right in the middle of this, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.320 the door open to the studio and two guys walk 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.480 in in black suits and they say, you got to 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.199 come with us. Now, my paser had just gone off 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:09.800 and I hadn't even had a chance to grab it 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.319 until they walked in. You got to go, And Ringo Starr, 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:18.760 to his credit, said, I totally understand. As soon as 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.840 you've done whatever you got to do, come on back. 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.040 We'll finish the We'll finish the overdub. I thought that 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.240 was very very interesting. You know, I don't know how 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.520 he knew that, but the thing that I that, the 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.600 impression that it left me was here's a guy who 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.280 is totally open, who doesn't see things all well, you know, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.520 how dare you? Uh? You know you're working for me? 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:42.240 You can't. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:42.679 No. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.599 I accept the world as it is and good And 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.640 when I was walking out the dress, good luck seeing 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:49.880 a bit. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:51.560 Did he ever ask you later? 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.280 What exactly did you leave? 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:54.280 Never wanted to know. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.720 No, But it wasn't important to him and to me. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.520 What was important is we do what we do. And 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.120 he had an open mind, and I just I'll now, no, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.040 do I like him as a person. I mean, we're 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.839 not close friends. When I have a tremendous amount of 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.880 and I have a tremendous amount of respect for him 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.840 as a person for doing that. So yes, sometimes they clash, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.760 but most of the time it's okay. 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.360 Never on stage you're performing with the Doobie Brothers and 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.880 two guys on stage. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.480 And hasn't happened right now yet. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.600 We're about to do No No in. 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.400 Front of the Armfitch and you're you're off state now? 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.760 Is there is there a b version of you standing 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.160 in the wings at all times ready for that contingency. 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.040 Well, during one of the war games, though, I got 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.600 a call from Make a Wish Foundation and they said, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.000 we're doing this big show. Can you can you play? 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.440 And I said, see, I you know, I don't know. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.640 I've got I got two weeks at Nella's Air Force Base. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.920 I don't know if I can leave. And I talked 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.640 to the principals, a couple of generals who were running 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.000 the show, and I said, can I you know, I 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.480 what do I do? They said, you got twenty four hours, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.280 go do it, come back, but we'll help you get 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.760 there and back, but go do this and halfdays I 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.720 work with they're all musicians. Most of the guys at 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.560 Lawrence Livermore. When I was working there, almost every physicist 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.480 I know as a musician, Brian, Brian may Oh, Brian, Yeah, 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:31.240 we can stand astrophysics. All these guys are musicians because 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.400 of the relationship between physics and music. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.280 So, okay, you play Red Team a lot, which means 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.200 you're the enemy and you're anti terrorism. That's the world 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:43.880 that you're in. You've got to predict what the enemy 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.320 is going to do and why they're going to do it, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.960 and then how they how they might do it. There 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.760 are a lot of so many questions here about how 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.920 do you stay ahead of the technology, et cetera. But 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:55.960 I heard you talking about Putin and a lot of 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.920 people don't understand who the adversary is. Could you give, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.960 for just a moment talk about Russia, China and North Koreen. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.640 Where we're at with them and what we may not 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.480 understand about what their endgame is and how you have 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.520 to deal with them, because it's in front of everybody's 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.240 mind right now because of the Ukraine, et cetera. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.040 Well, one of my friends, General Hayden, who was a 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.560 vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we worked 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.080 together a lot in the Shruber war games. I used 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.480 to drive him not something made him miserable. I was 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.400 on the Red team. That was my job. We were 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.800 friends and none of us took it personally. But one 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.200 day there was a meeting with some of the Joint 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.280 chiefs and some of the gamers and he said, Skunkin 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.600 wants you to describe Russia for me. In five seconds 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.880 said yes, sir, it's a nuclear armed gas station run 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.400 by the mafia. And General Heyden went up there you 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.880 go any questions, and in a sense, that's really what 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:55.640 it is. They are. They make all their money. I 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.120 would say eighty five percent of the money that they 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.720 make comes out of the ground. They make some weapons systems, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.159 some are good, some are not so good. I mean, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:10.240 the Kalishonakov obviously is a fine salt weapon, but their 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.960 airplanes tend to fall out of a sky. Although they 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:19.120 are brilliant aeronautical engineers, they just manufacturing is not so good. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.119 But yeah, they dig everything out of the ground and 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:26.040 then they sell it oil and gas and coal, and 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.679 they just sell it to everybody, and that way they 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.560 don't really have to make much. I mean, I do 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.199 own a Soviet made electric guitar, which is just a 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:40.240 hilarious piece of junk, you know, designed by the Soviet 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:45.959 Radio Electronics Ministry of whatever the hell it was, with 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.320 more crap in it. But okay, they took a shot. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.560 But yeah, nobody buys those guitars. They buy oil and gas. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:18:01.920 So Putin realizes that and basically runs his country on 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:07.040 revenue from oil and gas. And China now is buying 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.919 everything that Putin can get out of the ground, so 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.080 they've formed a partnership. The Russians do make a few 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.639 weapons that are pretty good, although they're buying more weaponry 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:23.520 from North Korea than they are really making, and also 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.040 China supplying them with electronics to build drones and things 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:32.040 like that. But Putin believes that Russia was dealt a 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:37.120 bad hand and that after the followable in Wall, that 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.920 the countries in Eastern Europe that left the Russian sphere 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.400 now need to be back in and the whole crimea 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.280 thing was just a It's just a prelude to what 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.000 we're going to see in the future unless somebody sets 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.560 steps in and changes that. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:01.600 Steely Dan iconic band jazz rock funk. They did everything 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.280 and they were notoriously fake water, Fagan and his partner 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.359 mister Becker, we're tough task masters. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:08.720 Did you? 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.760 You're an amazing player, Like I said, you have some 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.760 iconic solos which people still want to hear a note 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.520 for No, you play just because they're in everybody's You 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.000 talk about embedded in people's head. It must be amazing 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.000 for you hearing them and you having the different, different 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:25.800 view of it because you were there. You remember what 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.080 happened that day, et cetera. Was it that tough bean 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:29.960 Stewley did and you were one of the founding members. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.880 Well, again, like everything else, things tend to morph, things 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:40.080 tend to develop and change. In the beginning, in the 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.800 first three albums or first two albums, for sure, we 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:48.040 were a band. Everything was grew out of the relationship, 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:53.520 the musical relationship between the members of that band, Becker 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.920 and Fagan had. Because of the success of the band, 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.639 I think they wanted to expand on their songwriting and 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:06.119 they want to to expand into bringing other creative points 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.800 of view, and which makes perfect sense. I got no 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.360 problem with that at all. As a matter of fact. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.760 For me, the thing I liked about Steely Dan was 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.919 I always felt that a good guitar solo was a 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.640 composition in and of itself. It had to have a beginning, 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.080 a middle, and an end. It should stand on its own, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:34.160 even though it it was part of a larger concept 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.920 or a larger piece of music. It should fit inside, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.399 It should compliment, but it should be a standalone. So 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:47.399 to me, the idea that I think what Becker and 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.480 Fagan were striving for in the in the in the 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.679 later albums, with pushing other musicians to the wall, was 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.879 to get them to understand that they were What they 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.840 were looking for was a composition. A solo as a composition. 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.119 Some people don't look at it that way. Some people 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.000 look at it kind of in a linear fashion where 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.920 you're just heading down the road, going down the track 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.800 and just you know, it's solo. Here bop to you 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.520 drop and you can't stop. You know. Great. But for 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.000 me this was this fit the way that I looked 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.399 at things. Again, listening to Howard Roberts, every solo he 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.280 ever did, everything he ever did was a composition. 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:31.280 Which you can hear by the way the new album's 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.160 the speed of Heat Before you go? Can I give 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.600 you names and you just give me like reactions to 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.240 the names like whatever comes to your mind. Because you 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:40.040 played a little a lot of. 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:46.520 These people, I'll consider it. Doris Roberts, I can do 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:52.359 both of you. Elton John incredible human being. I played 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.480 in his band for a little while where became friends, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.280 and I got nothing but good stuff to say about him. 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.800 Eric Clapton don't know him that well, and I have 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.680 a tremendous amount of respect for his ability to change 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.399 the way that people listen to guitar. 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.520 Playing Donna Summer, he did the hot stuff so look 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.439 Yeah and Bad Girls. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:14.879 That was the first use of a guitar synthesizer on 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:21.240 a number one record. But she was a sweetheart and 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.560 she was a musician's musician. She got in there with 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.040 both feet, got her hands dirty, was involved in everything, 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.600 soulful and just. It was like working for Dolly Partoner. 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.199 You just wanted to do it. 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.240