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Speaker 1: Quality times, but Joseph's gotten more. When people meet me

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Speaker 1: many times that have heard me on a podcast or

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Speaker 1: seen me on television, one of the first questions they

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Speaker 1: asked for. One of the first comments they make is

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Speaker 1: I cannot begin to understand how you did for a

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Speaker 1: living what you did for so long. And it always

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Speaker 1: comes back around to the fact that I essentially lived

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Speaker 1: with the dead. Now, yeah, I understand. I'm a forensics guy,

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Speaker 1: and i'd go out and I work cases, I interacted

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Speaker 1: with my colleagues, but I got to tell you, there

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Speaker 1: were many weeks when I literally spent more time with

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Speaker 1: dead folks than I did with living folks. And there

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Speaker 1: were many times in my life I preferred being around

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Speaker 1: the dead. They generally don't give you any issues at all.

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Speaker 1: There's no surprises with them most of the time. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'll find pathology, but you know, the dead or dead

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Speaker 1: and the living going about their lives. But every now

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Speaker 1: and then there's a case that occurs where the living

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Speaker 1: and the dead just can't seem to go their separate ways.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs, Dave.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking back in time right now, and I wrote

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Speaker 1: about it. I wrote about in my memoir. I wrote

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Speaker 1: a story about a case that I'd worked many many

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Speaker 1: years ago, that I spent a protracted period of time

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Speaker 1: with a literally a refrigerator truckload full of dead bodies

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Speaker 1: from a capsized vessel. And we were real busy that

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Speaker 1: summer when that happened. And so just because you have

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Speaker 1: a major loss of life incident in a medical examiner

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Speaker 1: or corner's office, does that mean does not mean that

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Speaker 1: the everyday other cases stopped coming in. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like and I wouldn't presume to necessarily compare myself literally

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Speaker 1: to my colleagues that worked nine to eleven at the

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Speaker 1: OCME in New York. But you have to understand, you

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Speaker 1: had the Twin Towers collapse, other buildings collapsed, you had

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Speaker 1: thousands of dead, but Dave homicides didn't stop, you know,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have fatal events that just ceased because that

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Speaker 1: one moment in time we had a major loss of life.

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Speaker 1: Things happen, and sometimes you get stacked up with the dead,

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Speaker 1: and in a way you become numb to it. I

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Speaker 1: think the dead, and I mean no disrespect by this,

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Speaker 1: but the dead just they're part and parcel of your

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Speaker 1: daily existence when you when I would walk into a room,

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Speaker 1: into the autopsy room, for instance, and I would have

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Speaker 1: somebody literally with their head blown apart. Then next to

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Speaker 1: them on another table would be a horribly decomposed body.

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Speaker 1: And then you might have a grandma that just passed

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Speaker 1: away in or sleep, and they're all lined up on

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Speaker 1: the table. I didn't pay any more attention to that

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Speaker 1: in a Man in the Moon. I mean, it just

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Speaker 1: you get numb to it when you're going through it. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're not paying attention to detail. But

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Speaker 1: there's this thing that comes about where as part of

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Speaker 1: your occupation and part of what you do, you're able

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Speaker 1: to create this kind of weird membrane that kind of

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Speaker 1: buffets any kind of trauma you might have. What's really

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Speaker 1: odd is that when people that are not used to

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Speaker 1: being around the dead suddenly insert themselves into an environment

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Speaker 1: where they they not only are around the dead for

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Speaker 1: a period of time, but they might live with dead

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Speaker 1: bodies for a protracted period of time. And it took

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Speaker 1: me a long time professionally to build up that callous,

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Speaker 1: and it is a callous. It's like swinging a hammer.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just you get to the point where

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Speaker 1: it's it's it doesn't impact you the way that it

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Speaker 1: did when you first started. But for somebody just to

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Speaker 1: end dwell a residence, a structure with dead bodies and

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Speaker 1: not think anything of it, it's kind of odd. What

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Speaker 1: say you, my friend?

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Speaker 2: But the first questions I had about the story, Joe

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Speaker 2: is we're going to talk about Nikita Nikki Cassop and

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Speaker 2: he is seventeen years old, and he is accused of

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Speaker 2: killing his mother and his stepfather and staying with their bodies,

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Speaker 2: their dead bodies for at least ten days, probably longer

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Speaker 2: than that, maybe fifteen days. It could be somewhere but

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Speaker 2: a week and a half to two weeks worth of time.

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Speaker 2: This seventeen year old person stayed in the home with

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Speaker 2: two dead bodies. And we're not talking about people that

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Speaker 2: he just saw in a battlefield, you know, We're talking

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Speaker 2: about his mother and stepfather. We're talking about people he

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Speaker 2: has a long relationship with that he allegedly took their

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Speaker 2: lives for whatever reason. We still don't have a true

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Speaker 2: motive here. But he actually was cohabitating, He was sleeping, eating,

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Speaker 2: in this house with both of these bodies. That's why

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Speaker 2: we're doing body bags on this episode, on this particular story,

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Speaker 2: because we don't know what was going on in this

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Speaker 2: person's life that brought him to the It wasn't just

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Speaker 2: enough to kill and leave, which we see that a lot.

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Speaker 2: You know, we see people kill and get rid of

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Speaker 2: a body. You know, that's where we catch them getting

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Speaker 2: rid of the body. Not here. You've got a kid

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Speaker 2: who never missed school, Joe, and one of the ways

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Speaker 2: he got caught, well, he didn't show up for two weeks.

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Speaker 2: The school was concerned, school resource officer reaches out, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's where this kind of came from is And of

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Speaker 2: course his stepfather's mother she hadn't talked to her son

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Speaker 2: and she was concerned as well. So you had two

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Speaker 2: different calls for a well being check again, I know,

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Speaker 2: isn't It's so weird because they don't used to call

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Speaker 2: the welfare check, but because of people getting a welfare check,

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Speaker 2: they don't call it welfare check now it's well being check.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what they actually did change the verbage

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Speaker 1: for that purpose. Yeah, because I found that so odd.

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Speaker 1: I know, it'ally odd.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know what when President Ronald Reagan was

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Speaker 2: shot by Hinkley back in nineteen eighty one. Yeah, March

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Speaker 2: of eighty one. Okay. The Gilligan's Island franchise had become

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Speaker 2: a movie of the Week kind of thing where they

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Speaker 2: were doing your Return from mcgillian's Island Escape from Gillian's

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Speaker 2: Island like Battle of the Apes. But from the very

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Speaker 2: first episode when they announced the names of all of

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Speaker 2: these passengers on the ses meno, they gave you the

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Speaker 2: name of the professor. His name was Professor Roy Hinckley.

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Speaker 2: When John Hinckley tried to kill Ronald Reagan for the

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Speaker 2: next I don't know, Harlan Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island or

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Speaker 2: whatever it was, they changed the name of the professor

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Speaker 2: to Hinkele for that reason or that very reason. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I think about that when these things come up.

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Speaker 2: So instead of saying it's a well being, we're checking

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Speaker 2: on their well being.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's no longer welfare check. Yeah. So the verbiage changes,

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Speaker 1: you know, day in and day out, and it's everybody

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Speaker 1: likes to engineer language, but you know, the one thing

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Speaker 1: you can't engineer is outcomes. I think relative to the

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Speaker 1: consequences of living with a dead body, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, you and I both and please, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't misconstrue what I'm saying here. I am not comparing

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Speaker 1: our sons to this individual. What I'm doing is comparing

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Speaker 1: teenage boys. You and I both have had the adventure

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Speaker 1: of living in a household raising teenage boys, and teenage

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Speaker 1: boys do really stupid things. Not the most the world,

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Speaker 1: yeah they're not. And I were one at one point

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Speaker 1: in time, and I do remember doing really stupid things.

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Speaker 1: And I got to thinking about this kid who is

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Speaker 1: is actually living in this environment with these two individuals,

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Speaker 1: one of whom is his own mother, the other his stepfather,

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, did they did he have like a

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Speaker 1: brain freeze, you know, at that moment time where it's

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Speaker 1: like I I have done this and now I don't

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Speaker 1: know where to go, and I really wonder many times

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Speaker 1: if And it's not that doesn't necessarily just apply to

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Speaker 1: teenage boys. I think it applies to a lot of

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Speaker 1: perpetrators out there, because we see it, Dave. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, every week we cover cases and we see

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Speaker 1: these individuals that make really stupid, you know, mistakes along

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Speaker 1: the way. If you want to call it a mistake.

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Speaker 1: It's not like they're following their taxes and they've you know,

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Speaker 1: mis entered something. It's it's actually a they didn't think

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Speaker 1: the process through. I think it's really easy, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think that when you react, and all of us

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Speaker 1: have reacted in anger to things many times. I know

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Speaker 1: I have, I'm chief amongst sinners. And then you go back,

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Speaker 1: you have a quiet moment or two, and you sit

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Speaker 1: back and you shake your head and you say, I'm

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Speaker 1: such an idiot. Why did I say that? Why did

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Speaker 1: I do that? I know that there are going to

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Speaker 1: be consequences for this, and I'm just going to have

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Speaker 1: to sit down and take it, you know. And I

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Speaker 1: wonder many times about these individuals that perpetrate crimes and

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Speaker 1: they just kind of freeze and they can't move move

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Speaker 1: beyond that to make some better decision about how they're

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Speaker 1: going to handle something.

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Speaker 2: You know. The headline on this story, yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: looking at several because a seventeen year old killing his

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Speaker 2: mother and stepfather is a that's a big deal. That's

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Speaker 2: a big story. But the headline's on this one. It's Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: Tine killed mother and stepfather and lived with dot dot

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Speaker 2: dot teen lived with bodies of mom and stepfather after

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Speaker 2: killing them. Dot dot dot teen killed mom and stepdad,

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Speaker 2: then lived with bodies for dot dot dot. It's all

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Speaker 2: about oh in this one. I love this one. Teen

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Speaker 2: charged with killing parents lived with rotting corpses dot dot dot.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're actually doing today is getting to the

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Speaker 2: most explosive ending. It's not bad enough that the guy

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Speaker 2: killed his parents at seventeen years old, but now the

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Speaker 2: real headline, the real shock is he didn't get rid

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Speaker 2: of the bodies. He didn't chop them up and try

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Speaker 2: to get rid of them like so many we've had recently.

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Speaker 2: He's got two dead bodies in different parts of the house, Joe,

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Speaker 2: and basically he threw blankets over the top of them.

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Speaker 2: So I'm wondering, very and I know we'll get to

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Speaker 2: this right, right, But how long does it take before

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Speaker 2: or the body start to decompose and give off this

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Speaker 2: odor of death? And that's what this seventeen year old

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Speaker 2: is living with. I can't imagine that it's going to

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Speaker 2: be a pleasant thing to live in.

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Speaker 1: By the end of day two, he would have he

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Speaker 1: would have had an odor in the air. I can

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Speaker 1: almost I can almost guarantee that. So you're talking about

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Speaker 1: if that's the case, if that's our benchmark for starting

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Speaker 1: from I'm not talking about the appearance of post warm

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Speaker 1: changes and decompositional changes. I'm talking about that that smell.

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Speaker 1: It's like a phantom that comes out of the dark

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Speaker 1: and kind of slaps you in the face the first

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Speaker 1: time you smell it. We would be talking about the

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Speaker 1: line's share of the time that he was living in

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Speaker 1: this home. He would have smelt this, and he made

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Speaker 1: no effort to take them out into the yard or

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Speaker 1: disposed of them in the basement, or even removed them

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Speaker 1: to the attic. Do you remember the case that we

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Speaker 1: had which, by the way, that reminds me did do

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Speaker 1: follow up on this? The case from from was it

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Speaker 1: in gross Point? It was? It was in Detroit the

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Speaker 1: wealthy surgeon that was found wrapped up in his attic.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that case? And he had been killed,

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Speaker 1: and they have arrested somebody with that. But you know,

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Speaker 1: even in that case, the perpetrator, to the best of

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Speaker 1: my knowledge, didn't hang around, but they still wrapped the

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Speaker 1: body up, took the body into a sequestered area in

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Speaker 1: the attic, and put him up there. Well, that guy

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Speaker 1: would have been smelling, you know, pretty quickly. These bodies,

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Speaker 1: and particularly the mother, and this is and we can

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Speaker 1: dive into this a little bit more, but the mother

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Speaker 1: had had multiple layers placed upon her. And we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this before. When you layer a body like that,

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Speaker 1: that's essentially like placing an item in a crock pot. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's the heat that's being given off, you know, just

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Speaker 1: just as a result the heat that is generated. And

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Speaker 1: there is a certain amount of heat that is generated

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Speaker 1: from cellular decay where you have the cells, the actual

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Speaker 1: cells and our bodies begin to break down and kind

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Speaker 1: of leach out there. There is a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: heat that is given off in that process. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: further exacerbated by doing these lay the layers like this,

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Speaker 1: and so the body is slowly kind of rendering down

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Speaker 1: throughout the entire period, and you can actually think of

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Speaker 1: it as almost like a tenderizing moment. So the body

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Speaker 1: at a cellular level is that's expedited as a result

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Speaker 1: of this this layering of blankets all on top of

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Speaker 1: the body. So when you finally pull back these blankets,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be something that is so disgusting and

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Speaker 1: so insulting to your senses. But you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to be said about the nature of a scene

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Speaker 1: like this, particularly when you consider that the victims are

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Speaker 1: those individuals that held the title of parents. And how

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Speaker 1: much even more so when one of the victims has

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Speaker 1: been so brutalized at the hands of her son and

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Speaker 1: then left to right in the floor of their home

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Speaker 1: without any consideration or desecration of her remain So, brother Dave,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that, you know, our our favorite term welfare

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Speaker 1: check or what's the new term now being check? The

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Speaker 1: well being check? Yeah, the wellbeing Yeah, the well being

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Speaker 1: check had been requested on February the twenty eighth of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. And this isn't actually in Waukeshaw, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of prompted this, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: moving for it was?

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Speaker 2: There were two things. It was a two pronged thing. One,

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Speaker 2: you have a student who has a perfect record for

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Speaker 2: attendance and and his name is Nikiki nik Kiki Nikita

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Speaker 2: Cassop and he goes by the name Nikki Nicki had

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Speaker 2: perfect attendants and all of a sudden he misses two

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Speaker 2: weeks out of school, that was from the school standpoint.

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Speaker 2: They're like, hey, something's wrong, and they're trying to call

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Speaker 2: the house. They're not getting anybody on the phone. So

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Speaker 2: finally the school resource officer he calls the police and says,

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Speaker 2: we need to do a well being check. We've got

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Speaker 2: a student. He hasn't been here. We can't get in

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Speaker 2: touch with anybody on our records. Well. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: while that is happening, on the twenty eighth of February,

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Speaker 2: the stepfather's mom, Donald Mayer's mother, Dorothy, she actually calls

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Speaker 2: and asks for a well being check because she hasn't

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Speaker 2: talked to Donald in a couple of weeks. And oh,

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Speaker 2: I need to add something and I apologize for missing this.

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Speaker 1: Hush, that's okay.

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Speaker 2: There were a couple of instances of odd text messages

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Speaker 2: being received. One in particular was Donald Mayor the stepfather.

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Speaker 2: His boss, his supervisor at work, had gotten text messages

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Speaker 2: from him during the course of the time leading up

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Speaker 2: to February twenty eighth, and one of them was I'm

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Speaker 2: still sick, going to need another week And it wasn't

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Speaker 2: normal for him to text in that manner, And one

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Speaker 2: of the text messages has said I'm sick and I

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Speaker 2: can't talk, so I otherwise I would call you, but

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Speaker 2: I have to text I can't talk. So as adults,

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Speaker 2: we know, what are the odds of this happening. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is not something in our lifetime we have ever

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Speaker 2: really heard of. It happens on sitcoms, you know, and

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Speaker 2: things like that, but not in real life. And so

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Speaker 2: those that text message was one and the other one

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Speaker 2: was at the school, So they had some suspicious meanderings

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Speaker 2: going on with these text messages. But either way you

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Speaker 2: look at it. On February twenty eighth, the police show up,

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Speaker 2: and that's when this case hits the media because when

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Speaker 2: they first walk in, and Joe, this is something that

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Speaker 2: I've asked you before, and I wonder if there's a

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Speaker 2: difference in communities and towns, county, states and things like

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Speaker 2: that on when you're doing a well being check. As

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Speaker 2: an officer, you walk in, you know you're not getting

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Speaker 2: anybody at the door, you're not getting anybody on the phone,

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Speaker 2: and you know you're looking for ways to get inside

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Speaker 2: the house, you know, to see in what's going on

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Speaker 2: in there. And when they do, when police do finally

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Speaker 2: get inside, they find a body, right, They don't find

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Speaker 2: a body sitting out in front. What they do is

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Speaker 2: in the garage. They find the mother's BMW is in

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Speaker 2: the garage, but the father's stepfather's VW atlas is not

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Speaker 2: in the garage. There's no dog. They have a dog

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Speaker 2: named Toby. Toby's not there either. But they do find

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Speaker 2: miss Cassab. What is her name to I apologize to that, Tachiana, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Tatiana Cassab. They find her body in a hallway adjacent

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Speaker 2: to the kitchen, and it's covered in blankets, towels, things

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Speaker 2: like that. And I'm wondering, Joe, when police see that,

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Speaker 2: they have to determine that there's Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: when they got there, they could when they opened the door,

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Speaker 2: they smelled death. That's what they smelled this And so

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Speaker 2: it's the twenty eighth of February in Wisconsin and they

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Speaker 2: smelled death. Now when they walk in, the police find

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Speaker 2: this area in the hallway that it's got clothes and

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Speaker 2: things piled up, blankets and what have you. But there's

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Speaker 2: a body underneath. I'm going to guess you could pretty

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Speaker 2: much tell based on things happening in that general vicinity

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Speaker 2: of a body is there because it's deteriorating enough that

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Speaker 2: they smelled it.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well you'd have to confirm. And these are

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Speaker 1: excellent questions. And this is actually the type of thing

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Speaker 1: that that we teach each at Jack State with my students.

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Speaker 1: And I'll let me just kind of break it down

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Speaker 1: to you this way.

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Speaker 2: I need you to because I'm serious. Well, Joe, I've

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Speaker 2: been on scenes where there were bodies and things, okay,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not the officials. I'm there after the fact

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Speaker 2: as a journalist usually you know, or a family member,

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Speaker 2: And so I was confused as to what would be

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Speaker 2: the first step. I mean, even if you're the police officer,

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Speaker 2: how far do they have to go? Because do they

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Speaker 2: call you first, say I think we got a dead body.

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Speaker 1: Or well, they will call still generally call. What will

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Speaker 1: happen is the call will go out. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin is a corner state, so they still have corners

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, and you know, it is one of those

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Speaker 1: states that still elects a county corner and I've met

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Speaker 1: some of them over the years. They're fine people. They

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Speaker 1: go through pretty extensive training, but you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: anything else in life, you don't know what you're going

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Speaker 1: to get from county to county, but the corner is

335
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Speaker 1: somebody that you have to rely on in a set

336
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Speaker 1: of circumstances like this. What the Uniform Division would do

337
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Speaker 1: is that once they determined that they at least have

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Speaker 1: this one body. First off, just because you smell something

339
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Speaker 1: does not necessarily mean that it is human. Remember you

340
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Speaker 1: talked about Toby the missing dog. Well, dog's going to

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Speaker 1: give off a foul oat or two. It would appear

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Speaker 1: that Tatiana. I've seen the images of her. She's not

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Speaker 1: a very big person. As a matter of fact, there's

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Speaker 1: one great family image of her with their son and

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Speaker 1: the stepdad and they're standing there and you know, both

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Speaker 1: these guys tower over her. You know, she's tiny. So

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Speaker 1: you would have to confirm that you do in fact

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Speaker 1: have a human body. You would do as little as

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Speaker 1: you possibly could to disrupt those layers, because Dave, every

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Speaker 1: strata of garment, blanket, I don't know, tablecloth, towel, each

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Speaker 1: one of those has evidentiary value. The reason it does

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Speaker 1: is that if you believe this is a homicide, which

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Speaker 1: remember our working assumption that not some, but all deaths,

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Speaker 1: until proven otherwise, are in fact homicides. Each thing that

355
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Speaker 1: the perpetrator, and you have to assume that it's the

356
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Speaker 1: perpetrator that covered the bodies, has put their hands on

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Speaker 1: each one of these layers. So each layer has evidentiary

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Speaker 1: value to it. Once the police had very and I'm

359
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,479
Speaker 1: talking about the uniform division. Once the uniform division, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully there was a supervisor out there. That supervisor would

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Speaker 1: look at anybody in a uniform in that house. Stop

362
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Speaker 1: what you're doing. Do turn around, exit out through this door.

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Speaker 1: No other doors. Don't touch anything else. Pay attention to

364
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Speaker 1: where you put your feet, be fully aware of your surroundings.

365
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Speaker 1: Get out of this house. We're shutting the door behind us.

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Speaker 1: We're calling CID Criminal Investigation Division, crimes against persons. Because

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Speaker 1: not all police departments have a homicide division. The guys

368
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Speaker 1: that work in crimes against persons will handle rate assault,

369
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Speaker 1: AG assault, they'll handle homicides. It all kind of gets

370
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Speaker 1: lumped in together. You go to a bigger department and

371
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Speaker 1: they'll have specific homicide investigators, but you're going to call

372
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Speaker 1: CID and you'll say, get CID in route out here.

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Speaker 1: You'll also say we're going to have to get forensics

374
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Speaker 1: en route, which means the crime scene unit is going

375
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Speaker 1: to come out and oh, by the way, get the

376
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: corner and the rout as well. But before any of

377
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: those people can enter the house, you're going to have

378
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Speaker 1: to go to a magistrate. The sea the detective will

379
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Speaker 1: they will go to the magistrate that's on duty or

380
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Speaker 1: the judge, and they'll say, look, we've we've got to

381
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Speaker 1: get a search warrant. We've got a lady laying in

382
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Speaker 1: a hallway covered by all manner of clothing and you know,

383
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Speaker 1: blankets and everything else, and it looks like we've got

384
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Speaker 1: a homicide. Because you don't want to You do not

385
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Speaker 1: want to go into that house and start processing that

386
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: scene and not have all of your bases covered, because

387
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Speaker 1: anything that you find in that house that does not

388
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Speaker 1: have and I'm talking about absent a warrant, anything you

389
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: find in that house like that's in a hit in space. Say,

390
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Speaker 1: if you if you just kind of arbitrarily walk over

391
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Speaker 1: and open a closet, you can open a closet door

392
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Speaker 1: if you think there might be a body in there,

393
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: maybe you see fluid leaking out from under the door,

394
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: maybe it's blood which you think is blood. You can

395
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Speaker 1: open the closet. But if you get in that closet,

396
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: you start digging around, you find some kind of valuable

397
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. Guess what, Without a warrant, there's a

398
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: high probability that whatever you find in that closet, it

399
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: could be a kilo of cocaine, can be excluded it.

400
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: So you have to be very very careful. That's why

401
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of people scratch their heads, why do

402
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: you need a warrant? I mean, this is this might

403
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: this is probably a homicide. That's all the more reason

404
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: that you want to warrant because you're going to be

405
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: backstopped by that legally, and that way you can do

406
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 1: and it's not going to hurt anything for you. If

407
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: you secure the seing, then you're there's nothing, there's no

408
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: harm that's going to come. And there let me tell

409
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: you one other thing. In this case, they were able

410
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: to find mom and they were able to find stepdad,

411
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: but they couldn't find the dog, they couldn't find the car,

412
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: and they can't find the son. Well, there's two parts,

413
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: two major parts of this investigation. You've got the bodies

414
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: in the house which appear to be homicide. You know,

415
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: the victims of homicide. And then you've got a son

416
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: that's vanished and who's seventeen. By the way, he's a kid,

417
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: and the car is missing. You don't know that he

418
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: hasn't been kidnapped. You don't know that you know he's

419
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: being held somewhere. You also don't know if maybe he's

420
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: a suspect. I mean, for me, being the jaded old investigator,

421
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I am he's at the top of the list. I

422
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: got to tell you that. But your other part of

423
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: the investigation is find this kid and find him immediately,

424
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: because the further away he gets, there's a higher probability

425
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: that evidence can be destroyed or he might escape capture.

426
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: You do, he's somebody you do want to talk to

427
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: because he is domiciled at this location. You got two

428
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: dead bodies and he's missing, and one of the family

429
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: cars is missing. So you've got to do everything that

430
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: you can to secure the scene so that CID can

431
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: get out there in the corner and everybody. And oh,

432
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: the other part of this is you got to track

433
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: this kid now, and there's no you don't need a

434
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: warrant for that necessarily. You don't need a warrant to

435
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: go to the school and maybe talk to the principal

436
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: the counselors, and that would be a separate set of

437
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: investigators that are going to go out and do that,

438
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: and you're going to be handling this. There will be

439
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: one lead investigator that'll be in charge of everything, and

440
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: they'll be the point of contact for the DA as well,

441
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: and they'll kind of overlord the whole investigation, all right,

442
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: finding him and understanding what's going on the seeing and

443
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: then once you get that kind of steadied, get the

444
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: ship steadied, then you can begin to process the scene

445
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: after you get that warrant, Because Dave, this is going

446
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: to be a highly complex situation that you're walking into

447
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: because you have no idea. You've got a decomposing to

448
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: decomposing human remains here, you have no idea what the

449
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: cause of death is, and you've got to kind of

450
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: narrow that down as quickly as you possibly can, first off,

451
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: to see if you're actually dealing with a homicide or

452
00:29:53,840 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: maybe something different. There's probably no greater iconic figure in

453
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: motion picture history when it comes to playing the cop

454
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: against the system than the character of Dirty Harry played

455
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: by Clint Eastwood. And he famously said, and I think

456
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: that It was actually in the first, the first Dirty

457
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: Harry movie, which is called Dirty Harry, that the forty

458
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: four magnum was the most powerful handgun in the world.

459
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: That's no longer true. There are other ones that are

460
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: more powerful now, but yet it's still formidable. But it's

461
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: not really practical, all right. It's a huge weapon. It

462
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: was never practical really for anybody to carry. But one

463
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: weapon that is not quite as powerful but is revered

464
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: is three point fifty seven magnum. And three fifty seven

465
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: magnum is an interesting weapon in the sense that it

466
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: it is zero point three point five seven caliber in

467
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: a magnum load, which means that you've got this chunk

468
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: of lead in the end of a bullet alive round

469
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: and you've got a magnum load of propellant in here.

470
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: So you've got this thing driving it down the muzzle

471
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: of this weapon, and when it slams into anybody, it's

472
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: like being hit with a sledgehammer. Very powerful, and interestingly enough,

473
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: in our case today that we're discussing, Dave mister Mayor,

474
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: the stepfather of this young man, had recently purchased a

475
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: three point fifty Evan magnum and guess what it's missing.

476
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: It's missing from. Not only is the car missing, Toby,

477
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: the dog is missing, the teen is missing, the reach

478
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: is recently purchased three point fifty seven magnum is missing

479
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: as well.

480
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: Now we've got, as we mentioned before, we actually have

481
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: a little bit of a time frame between the last

482
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: time anyone recalls hearing from Donald Mayor or Tatiana Cassop

483
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: and her son attending school. And we also know that

484
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: when police arrive, they find her body under a bunch

485
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: of clothing. Now what they've told us, Joe, is that

486
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: they've got multiple gunshot wounds to her and Donald Mayer

487
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: was found in an office in the home.

488
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: By the way.

489
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: This is a three thousand square foot home, four bedroom,

490
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: two and a half back. Big, I had some picture.

491
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: I urge anybody out there go take a look at

492
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: the picture.

493
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: Interrupt you now, buddy, beautiful house, nice neighborhoo. And again

494
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: you know the dog is missing, and so is the

495
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: VW Atlas that is owned by Donald Mayer. Anyway, police

496
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: get there and they find her in the hallway. That's

497
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: when they walk back out. Let's get the search warrant.

498
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: They come back. Now they know they don't have the sun,

499
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: and they don't have a car, and they don't have

500
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: a dog. So those three things are things they're looking

501
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: for right now. They find Donald Mayer in his office

502
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: in an office in the house, and he's been shot

503
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: once in the back of the head with that three

504
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: point fifty seven magnet. Well, I don't know how soon

505
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: they figure that out, but based on the wound as

506
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: it's described, But as they're trying to figure everything out,

507
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: Joe and I'm I asked you early on about the smell,

508
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: how long would it take before the smell hit Because

509
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: we are dealing with a number of days here between

510
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: the time that they the police believe the killings took

511
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: place and the day they were the body's found. But

512
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: we have a seventeen year old who is not in

513
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: the home. Dead, cars missing, dogs missing, and so they

514
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: put out they're doing a they're on scene at the house,

515
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 2: they're examining the bodies, and we got to find this kid,

516
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: find that car, look for this kid, find the dog.

517
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 2: So anymore, we have these license plate readers, they're everywhere.

518
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: We got surveillance cameras, they're everywhere. It's amazing. If you

519
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: haven't kept up with the Times friends, you are being

520
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: tracked all day. Every day they were able to find

521
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: they were able to find Nicki, and he was not

522
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: near home. They found Niki the same day they found

523
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 2: the body's show. They find Nicki eight hundred and fifty

524
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: miles away from home. The same day they find the bodies.

525
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: They find him at eleven twenty at night. And by

526
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: the way, he's not dead. Obviously, we're doing the show

527
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: about the son killing his mom and his stepfather, but

528
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to the house. Now. Inside

529
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: that house, they find that his mother has been shot

530
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: multiple times. Yep, there's four wounds caused by three shots. Now.

531
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 2: One of the wounds was to her right hand. Yes,

532
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: and I was wondering, because you've got two shots to

533
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: the abdomen. One to the neck. Was the wound in

534
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: her right hand caused by her a defensive move, her

535
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: putting her arm up.

536
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: It could be you could also have with the abdominal

537
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: wound as well. And I've had this happen and it's

538
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: kind of a it's an odd it's an odd thing

539
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: to see, but it does happen. You will have a

540
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: and I don't. They have not released the autopsy report

541
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: on the case. But you can have a situation where say,

542
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: for instance, someone is turning and I'm talking about the victim. Okay,

543
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: let's say the victim is kind of rotating at the

544
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: waist and now the shooter is obliquely oriented to the

545
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: so they're on the side. I've had cases where in

546
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: the abdomen, in particular, where it's kind of flabby, you

547
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: can have around that initially enters kind of laterally okay,

548
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: goes through exits and re enters the body, and you

549
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: can yeah, and this happens with some frequency. It's not

550
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: like if you saw it in the morgue, you wouldn't say, Wow,

551
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: what a finding, because it happens more than you know.

552
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: You know, people people see old Western movies and I

553
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: guess even movies today where people are shot and it's

554
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: they people many times appear to be static when they're shot.

555
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: If you know that you have a weapon pointed at

556
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: you and they're firing, or you sense that they're going

557
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: to fire, people will flinch, they'll turn. Nobody's going to

558
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: stand still most of the time to be shot. They're

559
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: going to react to the site. And can you imagine

560
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: with a three point fifty seven magnum. If she sees

561
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: this thing, the muzzle on this thing is it's going

562
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: to look like, you know, you're looking down inside of

563
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: a peach basket. It's that big. Of course it's not,

564
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: but it's it's rather imposing. Well, she's going to react

565
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: to that. Now, back to what she said. Can she

566
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: be shot through the hand. Let's say that she raises

567
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: her hand to her neck in where the palm is out. Okay, yes,

568
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: you can have around that will go through and through.

569
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: It's called a throw and through wound. It would pass

570
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: through the palm of the hand or through the fingers,

571
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: out through the back of the hand, and then back

572
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: in to the neck. That can happen as well. And

573
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: those injuries are rather interesting because let's just say, for instance,

574
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: and we don't know this for a fact, but let's

575
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: just say, for instance, everybody at home kind of feel

576
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: the palm of your hand right now, and you can

577
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: feel the bony structures within your head hand. Okay, Well,

578
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: if you're shot through your hand, that projectile, that lead

579
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: core projectile that is passing through the palm of your hand,

580
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: there's a high probability it's going to strike bone. When

581
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: it strikes bone, there's going to be potentially deformation to

582
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: the round. So when it exits out of the hand,

583
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: it enters the hand, strikes bone, there's a wind track

584
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: through the hand exits. The bullet is not going to

585
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: be pristine, Okay, when it comes out, it's going to

586
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: be oddly shaped and you'll get kind of like in

587
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: the neck, you'll get these kind of weird looking injuries

588
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: where you have and it's what is referred to as

589
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: we use a term for it, it's called an intermediate target.

590
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be a body part, like

591
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: if somebody is shot through a wall or shot through

592
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: a piece of glass, or shot through the door of

593
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: a car. The bullet has changed forever. The projectile has

594
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: changed because it becomes shredded, it becomes even more jagged,

595
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: so we get these really nasty looking wounds.

596
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: And so if they're in exacting November twenty second, nineteen

597
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: sixty three in Dallas, Texas, ideally there and Governor Connolly

598
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: was shot through the wrist and everything else, and it

599
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: was a pristine bullet that landed next to his thigh

600
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: on the gurney exactly.

601
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: And again, the pristine bullet theory and of course that's

602
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: it's utter nonsense.

603
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: I had to throw it in there.

604
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, I'm glad that you did, particularly in the

605
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: wake of everything that we're seeing. Now we need to

606
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: do another episode, I think anyway.

607
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: Thank You're right? All right?

608
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, you have you have this and and then

609
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 1: she's got multiple gunshot wounds. But she's got multiple gunshot wounds.

610
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: And this is really interesting. Mister Mayor has got one.

611
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, Dave, this goes back

612
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: to the old the old adage theory or you know,

613
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: the way we view these things. Why do you need

614
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: to take a three point fifty seven magnum and shoot

615
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: this diminutive woman multiple times? Can you explain? And I'm

616
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: this is hypothetical. Can you explain that to me? Most

617
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: people would look at this. I think behaviors might look

618
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: at it and say, well, this borders on overkill. It

619
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: borders on overkill.

620
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: And that's where Joe as I was looking at this

621
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: in my mind, because you know, you started off the

622
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 2: show talking about being around bodies, you know, and over

623
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: a period of time you can see different types of

624
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,959
Speaker 2: bodies in different stages of decomp what have you. Yeah,

625
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: when I do stories even now, I still have that

626
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 2: hope when a child does something, or when a parent

627
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: does something that the victim doesn't know that the victim.

628
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 2: In the case of mister Mary, I'm thinking, Okay, he

629
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: was shot in the back of the head with the

630
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: fifty seven magnum. I'm hoping it was by surprise that

631
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: he never knew it was coming. Boom, he's gone. I'm

632
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: guessing if that were to happen now, the mom knows

633
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: something bad is happening and she's coming, and that's why

634
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: she gets shot multiple.

635
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Times, and she's in a different area of.

636
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: The house, right in the hallway. And then my thing is,

637
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: I hate to think that the last thing this mother

638
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: knew was that her son was doing this horrific thing allegedly.

639
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: But I want to go quickly to when the police

640
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: arrived and we have both the bodies were covered with

641
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: different things, and you covered how that has to be unlayered.

642
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: When the bodies are taken out of the home. Are

643
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: they taken up as a lump with the blankets, covers,

644
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: or whatever's on them, or are those removed and the

645
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: bodies are placed in a bag? How are they transported

646
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: so they don't lose all the possible forensic evidence in there.

647
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, in a case like this

648
00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: where you've got loose blankets, if it were me, I

649
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: would document let's just take Mom's body. I would document

650
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: her body so well, or the location where she is seen, okay,

651
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: or reviewed here at sight. I would go into pains,

652
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: taking detail about every aspect of this. And because I

653
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: don't want to lose anything or transfer anything to the

654
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: outer layers of the blankets that might be contained therein

655
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: because you're going to run that risk and a body back.

656
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it's like a tumble dryer,

657
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: but you can have things that are mixed up in

658
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: there as the body is bouncing down the road. I

659
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: would take each layer off if it's not secured, if

660
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: the say the perpetraary hadn't wrapped it with anything. If

661
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: you're talking about wrapping a body, uh this cocooned in blankets,

662
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: that's a different story. But if you've got them just

663
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: laying I'm going to take up each individual blanket one

664
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: by one, put it in a separate paper container, seal

665
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: it up, label it, and it's going to go in individually.

666
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: It's not going to accompany the body. It's going to

667
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 1: go with the crime scene tech back to their repository

668
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: so it can make it out to the state crime lab.

669
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about layer if I've got look, and

670
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is the case, but let's

671
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: just say I'll pick an arbitrary number. Let's just say

672
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: we've got twelve layers. You're getting twelve backs from me. Okay,

673
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: you get twelve backs. Yeah, and I want each one

674
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: of them to be examined. And here's one more thing

675
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: that you got to think about. Was she covered in

676
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: blankets and then shot? Or was she shot and then

677
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: covered in blankets? And you say, well, got that that's

678
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: kind of obvious. No, there's nothing obvious in depth investigation,

679
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: you know your assumption. You have to consider all possibilities,

680
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: and it gets very complex. I mean, can you imagine

681
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: how much more complex this would be if he I

682
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: don't know, some weird, bizarre set of circumstances happened and

683
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: he tackles mom. He puts blankets all on the top

684
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: of him because he's seen a movie that thinks it's

685
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: going to muffle the sound. He starts firing through multiple

686
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: layers of blankets into her body. Well, that's even going

687
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: to make the rounds more deformed. You're going to get

688
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,959
Speaker 1: fiber evidence. I've actually recovered bullets projectiles from bodies, Dave

689
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: that had bits of fiber twisted up in jagged edges

690
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: of the projectile that are embedded in the body because

691
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: it passed through. Again, one of these intermediate targets went

692
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: into the body and then it's there. I found wood

693
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: embedded in bodies that you know where you've got like

694
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: particle board, where you've got rounds that pass through particle

695
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: board and that kind of splinter and goes into a body.

696
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: There's all manner of things, and it tells it tells

697
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: a very specific story about this. But David, you know,

698
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: I'd I'd be very curious to understand. I think with

699
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: the stepfather in particular, you had mentioned that you were

700
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: hoping that he didn't see it coming. I hope that

701
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: he didn't either, to be honest with you, but I'm

702
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: one of the things they would have to figure out

703
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: with him. I think particularly this is kind of curious.

704
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: This is this sounds like a classic execution style killing.

705
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to know if they were able to determine

706
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: a range of fire if the muzzle was placed directly

707
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: against the back of his head. This kid just walked

708
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: up the guy you said, he's in his office, maybe

709
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: you see it in a chair. He didn't know what

710
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: was coming, walks up behind him, pops him, you know,

711
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: right in the head. Or did he say, gee, stepdad,

712
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: you know, I'd really like to handle that new three

713
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: fifty seven magnum that you bought. Can can I see it?

714
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: And he hands it over to him and things loaded,

715
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: and he looks at him and shoots him in the face,

716
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, because you say, or shoots him in the

717
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: head while he's not suspecting that. You know, it can

718
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: go either number of ways. You know, how did the

719
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: kid know that the weapon was in the house? How

720
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: do you get access to it? Okay, then with mom,

721
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: where were her wounds oriented? And what range of fire

722
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: would there be? Because you're going to have with three

723
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: fifty seven magnum in particular, it's a magnum round, so

724
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about a lot of propellant, Dave, and you

725
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: will have stippling. You know that where this gets embedded

726
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: into into the skin and onto the clothing. We can

727
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: determine range of fire based upon how far out it's

728
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: spread on the remains are on the clothing, and that

729
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: gives us an idea, and all of a sudden, you know,

730
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: the focus on stories becoming a little bit tighter now,

731
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, once you kind of establish the physical relationship

732
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: between the muzzle of that weapon being held allegedly by

733
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: a son and the recipients of the rounds that you know,

734
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: these bodies that the rounds were fired into.

735
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: You know, when they actually were able to get to

736
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: the sun, Yeah, and have I mentioned earlier he was

737
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: eight hundred plus miles away. They used a number of

738
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: different things, surveillance cameras to cell phones. When they did

739
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: track him the sun, they found him, Like I said,

740
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: you found the bodies early in the day, you know,

741
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: with their well being calls, and this is now twelve

742
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 2: hours later and they already got him, you know, eight

743
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: hundred plus miles away. They were able to track this

744
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: his behavior using his parents' credit cards and things like that,

745
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 2: starting on February twelfth, all the way through the twenty eighth.

746
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: The gun, the three fifty seven magnum matching the description

747
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: of donald marriage gun that he had just bought, is

748
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: found in the floorboard of the well when they caught

749
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 2: Nikki driving the VW Atlas owned by his stepfather. That's

750
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: who they caught him driving his car. And the three

751
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: fifty seven magnum is on the floorboard along with unspent

752
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: and spent shell casings. Yeah, and you have bullets in

753
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: there and spent shells. Do you think he picked them

754
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: up in the house and left with him?

755
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, No, no, no, because three fifty seven

756
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: magnums of revolver. Okay, so the gun, oh yeah, and

757
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: he probably dumped them. Which when you open up the

758
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: gate on a revolver and and the cylinder spins out,

759
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: because it I say spin out, you press it out.

760
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: There's an ejection rod on the thing. So you press

761
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: the ejection rod and all of those spent well anywhereund

762
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: that's in there. It doesn't matter ifest live or spent

763
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: are going to drop out. Now here's here's the interesting thing.

764
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: Can we go back to the mom just one second. Wow,

765
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: how many injuries did you say that she had sustained?

766
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: And they think three gunshot wounds? Four injuries?

767
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so she's got three gunshot wounds, four injuries. Mister

768
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: Mayer has got a single gunshot wound. Okay, so three

769
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: fifty seven magnums. These revolvers can come in in a

770
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: configuration to hold five rounds in cylinder or six. Now,

771
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: just so we all understand, because I know I'm going

772
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: to get blowback on this. There is a semi automatic

773
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: three fifty seven out there. It does exist, but the

774
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 1: line share people do not possess these. Most of these

775
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: platforms with three fifty seven magnums are revolvers. So if

776
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: it's a semi automatic, like you had said, you know,

777
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: did he pick up the rounds at the house or

778
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: the spent casings, then yeah, if it's a semi automatic.

779
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 1: But my suspicion is is that traditionally the three fifty

780
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: seven magnum is something that you have in a revolver configuration.

781
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: And I actually owned one or was issued one at

782
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: one point in time years ago. That was a cult lawman.

783
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: I loved that weapon. It was a actual a snubnose

784
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: weapon and it was only five shots. The cylinder only

785
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: held five rounds, but you can have the more robust

786
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: and for years, cops there were some cops that still

787
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: carried thirty eight specials, but you had those that actually

788
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: opted for a three point fifty seven magnum. This is

789
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: before the days of police officers being issued semi automatic handguns,

790
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, with the Barrettas and the glocks and you

791
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: know every six and all these other brands that are

792
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: out there now. There were some police officers that prefer

793
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: the three fifty seven because they you that the energy

794
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: they were going to put on target if they had

795
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: to use this thing was going to be substantially more

796
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: significant than the thirty eight special, all right. They knew

797
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: that it would have more power to it. That's originally

798
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: everything that we do in firearms, and this is kind

799
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: of interesting, most in the civilian world, even in policing,

800
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: has its origins in the military. You go all the

801
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: way back to the turn of the twentieth century, from

802
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, from the late eighteen hundreds, before the invention

803
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: of the nineteen eleven forty five caliber side arm that

804
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: our military carried. Our officers and NCOs used to carry

805
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: thirty eight specials, and those rounds were insufficient, We'll put

806
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: it to you that way. That's why they you know,

807
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: when they could get up to a forty five caliber

808
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: semi automatic handgun, they went to it because again it

809
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it's getting hit with a forty five,

810
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: which is even more robust than three point fifty seven magnum,

811
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: is like getting head with a sledgehammer.

812
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 2: So that's what we've got, that kid using that on

813
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: his stepdead in the back of the head. All right,

814
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: But let me go back to something else, Joe. Because

815
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 2: the bodies were so decomposed that they could not be identified. Now,

816
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: how is that in the space of two weeks time

817
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: inside of a home, out of the elements, How is

818
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 2: that a thing I would have thought that. Granted I

819
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: understand odor, I understand that and decomposition, but talking about

820
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: two bodies inside of a home decomposing at such a

821
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 2: rate that they could not be identified in two weeks time.

822
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: Well, we're talking about Wisconsin. We're talking about the wintertime.

823
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: And guess what you got going on in the house.

824
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: You're running the heat, baby, And so there's constant heat.

825
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: And for everyone that has to fight this fight that

826
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: lives in areas where it turns off cold. You know,

827
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: our friends down to Florida might not have to deal

828
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: with this too much, but where it's always having to

829
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: fight that fight, that heater is always competing with the

830
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: external temperature, and you know it's you know, if you've

831
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: got a drafty house or whatever, thermostat is going to

832
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: indicate that, you know, you've got the temperatures decreasing, so

833
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: it's going to kick back on. So it's always in

834
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: a state of having warmth. And also here's here's the thing.

835
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: You know, you're the the heat in a house varies

836
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: from location to location. I mean, that kind of makes sense.

837
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: But let's just say you're talking about Mom's body being

838
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: in the hallway where she's laying next to a vent,

839
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: and on top of that, she's got these layers of

840
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: fabric that are lying on top of her. That's going

841
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: to further exacerbate. There are actually cases out there day

842
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: where you will have people that have been homicide victims

843
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: in homes where because of the location within the structure,

844
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: one body decomposes quicker than the other body because of

845
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: the relative position to like heating vents or cooling cooling.

846
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: It can work conversely as well. We saw this not

847
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: exactly the same thing, but we saw with Gene Hackman,

848
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 1: which you and I have talked about extensively, where Betsy's

849
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: body was found. They talked about her being mummified. But

850
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: you know, mister Hackman had probably walked through that house

851
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: for five days I think, you know, before he finally

852
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: succumbed to you know, and of course he had advanced Alzheimer's.

853
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, you think about just even the variation in

854
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: the location within a structure can impact the rate at

855
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: which bodies decompose. The fact that this kid stayed in

856
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: this house for as long as he did, the fact

857
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: that he allegedly tried to feign the still living existence

858
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: of his parents through text messages and these sorts of things.

859
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: The fact that he ran up almost ten thousand dollars

860
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: in the use of credit cards and debit cards, and

861
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: the fact that he stole that car and ran off

862
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: with it. There's more to be revealed in this case,

863
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. But when you've got a

864
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: young man who's seventeen years old, who allegedly executes both

865
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: of his parents and in dwells a house with their

866
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: rotting corpses for this long, these still waters run very

867
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: very deep. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body

868
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: Backs