1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,880
Speaker 1: All right, we want to switch gears here and talk

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 1: about Dual Lingo. AI innovations powering Dual Lingo to all

3
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 1: time highs. The company revealing this week two new AI

4
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 1: powered innovations to the platform, which of course teaches over

5
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: forty languages as well as math and music. Now, since

6
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 1: the announcement, the Saka Sine price target hikes from both

7
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: evercore and need them and for more. I am thrilled

8
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 1: to say we are joined now by Luis van On.

9
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: He is the co founder, CEO and chairman of Dual Lingo.

10
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,360
Speaker 1: So of those two innovations, let's start with video call

11
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: with Lily. My understanding is basically it's a video call

12
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,919
Speaker 1: and I will be speaking with one of your characters.

13
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 1: She has purple hair, her name is Lily, and the

14
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: goal really is conversation. And with that in mind, are

15
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,920
Speaker 1: you trying to target more advanced language learners who maybe

16
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 1: already have a handle on conjugations and how to ask

17
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:51,120
Speaker 1: for the check.

18
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're trying to target everybody.

19
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: The idea is, historically we haven't been able to get

20
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,720
Speaker 3: people to practice conversation very well with couters, but now

21
00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,679
Speaker 3: with AI, you actually can have a conversation with a

22
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 3: fully automated character, and the character adjusts to your level. Now,

23
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 3: what we're really excited about is that it turns out

24
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: most people, actually, when they're just language beginners or intermediate,

25
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 3: they don't want to have a conversation with another human because.

26
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 2: They're too shy about it.

27
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 3: But having a conversation with an animated character actually allows

28
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 3: them to practice their conversation. So we're hoping this will

29
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 3: really bring to a lingo to the next level in

30
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,320
Speaker 3: terms of teaching languages.

31
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 1: It's fascinating, of course, the human psychology element and the

32
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 1: decision to keep an animated character there as the voice

33
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 1: and face of Lily. So my understanding is that Video

34
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,760
Speaker 1: Call with Lily basically it falls under your due Lingo

35
00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 1: Max subscription thirty dollars a month. You just started rolling

36
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 1: that out in April on With this in mind and

37
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 1: with the launch of Video Call with Lily, should we

38
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,640
Speaker 1: be expecting any upgrades to your forecasts here?

39
00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not really going to talk about forecasts or anything,

40
00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 3: but we're really excited about, you know, about the uptake.

41
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 2: I think people are really loving being able to.

42
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,680
Speaker 3: Practice their conversation, and this is particularly true of English learners.

43
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,239
Speaker 3: So people who are learning English, they really care a

44
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 3: lot about conversation.

45
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 2: So we're excited about that.

46
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 1: And I mean to the point on English when we

47
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,280
Speaker 1: spoke a couple months ago, I believe less than fifty

48
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: percent of your daily actor users we're English learners. I

49
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: know that is a big initiative for you. So with

50
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: that in mind, where are you when it comes to

51
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 1: reaching that fifty percent threshold.

52
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Actually, the threshold we want to reach is about

53
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 3: eighty percent. It turns out that the number of people

54
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,280
Speaker 3: in the world, the fraction of people in the world

55
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,079
Speaker 3: that are learning a language, that are learning English is

56
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 3: about eighty percent, whereas of our daily active users this

57
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 3: is under fifty percent. So we're hoping that, you know,

58
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 3: it'll get to eighty percent. This will take us a while,

59
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 3: but you know, we're doing everything we can. And one

60
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 3: of the important things is are these AI innovations that

61
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 3: allow us to practice more natural conversation.

62
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 4: I think what's interesting also about this AI revolution, and

63
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 4: as it pertains to language and companies that work on

64
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,919
Speaker 4: language like you do, is what it takes to get

65
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 4: there and advance and grow. What's fascinating about dual LINGO

66
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 4: to me is that you guys have a nearly thirteen

67
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,239
Speaker 4: billion dollar company that at the end of the last

68
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,400
Speaker 4: year only had about or less than rather eight hundred

69
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 4: people working at it. What does it mean for the

70
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 4: workforce for you to be expanding this way in AI?

71
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're quite lean.

72
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,920
Speaker 3: We still have about it's a little over eight hundred

73
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,679
Speaker 3: people that we have working on due LINGO, and most

74
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 3: of them are working on the actual product, so mostly

75
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 3: are their engineers. It just turns out that, you know,

76
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 3: engineers are quite scalable, and it's getting even better with

77
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 3: a lot of THEAI improvements because a lot of the

78
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 3: coding that used to be done entirely manually now can

79
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 3: be done in part with the help of a computer.

80
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 3: So we're going to continue growing the number of employees,

81
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 3: but I don't think you should expect us to quadruple

82
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 3: the employees anytime soon or anything like that. Is going

83
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,559
Speaker 3: to slowly engine because we get a lot of efficiencies

84
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 3: with AI.

85
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 1: Well, continuing along these lines, it's interesting. Late last year,

86
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: of course, you just decided not to renew the contracts

87
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: about ten percent of your contracted workforce, opting instead to

88
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,400
Speaker 1: use AI in some cases and with that in mind,

89
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 1: of course, AI not just enhancing the product that you offer,

90
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 1: but maybe enhancing the productivity of your workforce you expect

91
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,679
Speaker 1: to grow the workforce. Where are you hiring right now?

92
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,359
Speaker 3: I mean the main places we're hiring are highly skilled engineers,

93
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 3: product managers, and designers. I mean, the way we see

94
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 3: it is, you know, there's some road work that can

95
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,840
Speaker 3: be entirely substituted by AI, But for the majority of

96
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 3: our employees or the types of works we do, what's

97
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 3: going to happen is we're just going to be able

98
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 3: to see each one of them get more efficient. So

99
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 3: we're not going to be doing anything like layoffs or anything.

100
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 3: We're just going to get a lot more efficiency because

101
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 3: what happens is somebody who used to be an animator

102
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 3: now can still be an animator.

103
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 2: They will be working on.

104
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 3: Kind of the more conceptual stuff as opposed to having

105
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,239
Speaker 3: to spend a lot of time on you know, tiny

106
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 3: little movements of the characters, which now can be done

107
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:10,039
Speaker 3: mostly by AI.

108
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,840
Speaker 4: I'd love to go back to Katie's point a little

109
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 4: bit as well about kind of the higher price tiers

110
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 4: that you're offering people. What do you find people coming

111
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 4: to do a lingo for I'm a user myself. I

112
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 4: want to learn Spanish. I use it every so often.

113
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,039
Speaker 4: I'm not using it in my job every day. Do

114
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,920
Speaker 4: you find people learning at these higher price tiers to

115
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 4: get different jobs across the world? And are is that

116
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,159
Speaker 4: a rationale for why people are willing to pay for it?

117
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,480
Speaker 4: Will employers pay for it?

118
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: Yeah?

119
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 3: So there's there's many reasons for learning a language. The

120
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 3: two big ones that we have among our users, and

121
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,840
Speaker 3: they're about half half. One half is hobby. These are

122
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 3: people who don't actually need to learn a language, but

123
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 3: they just think to themselves, well, uh, you know, I

124
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,920
Speaker 3: used to, I don't know, play a lot of candy

125
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,160
Speaker 3: crush or do a lot of Instagram, and now I'm

126
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 3: using Duolingo and at least I'm learning.

127
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 2: In some Spanish. That's one group.

128
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 3: And then the other big group are people who are

129
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 3: doing this to actually learn a language and doing so

130
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 3: for either school or work. And usually those are people

131
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 3: who are learning English. And so those are the two

132
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 3: big buckets. It's easy to see that the people who

133
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 3: are learning English are willing to pay because they really,

134
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 3: you know, they actually want to get a result. But

135
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 3: it turns out that the people who are hobbyists are

136
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 3: also interested in paying, because, as with all hobbies, you

137
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 3: usually get started with something you know, you get started small,

138
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 3: but as you get more and more into it, you

139
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 3: want to have more features and then you end up paying.

140
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 3: So we're seeing appetite to pay in both big groups.

141
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up candy Crush. I'm not much

142
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: of a candy Crush player. I really like two dots,

143
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 1: but that's a different conversation. But as part of of

144
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: course the innovations that we're announced this week, we mentioned

145
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 1: video Call with Lily. There's also Adventures, which are a

146
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,239
Speaker 1: mini game Louis. So it's interesting that you're also trying

147
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: to tap into that gaming mindset. Maybe people on the

148
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 1: subway just want to have some fun here.

149
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,040
Speaker 3: Yes, it's always been gamified, and I think that's one

150
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 3: of the big reasons why we've grown so much. It's

151
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,440
Speaker 3: because it turns out that learning a language and do

152
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 3: ling is easy and fun. But we're really leaning into it,

153
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 3: and it turns out there is one aspect of learning

154
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 3: a language, which is these situational things where you're you know,

155
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 3: you may have to buy a croissant, or you know,

156
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 3: whatever it is get yourself out of trouble, that you

157
00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 3: can really turn into a little bit of an adventure game.

158
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 3: So some of the lessons are now going to be

159
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 3: as opposed to just having to do certain you know,

160
00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 3: translations or listening to things, You're going to be put

161
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 3: into a full screen where you're in a situation where

162
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 3: you may have to buy something or you know, clean

163
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 3: up something, or ask for directions or something, and you know,

164
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 3: it's a whole game that you can that you can fail,

165
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 3: and it's pretty fun.

166
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 2: And we don't have.

167
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 1: Much time left, but I do want to talk a

168
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: little bit about the stock movement. Of course, do a

169
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,960
Speaker 1: lingo shares hitting an all time high this week, up

170
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: mightily for the year. You take a look at what

171
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 1: that means for market cap. Ashanal I mentioned you're close

172
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 1: to thirteen billion dollars in market cap right now. You

173
00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 1: were under seven billion a year ago. I know that

174
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: you have plans to hire more, but is there any

175
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 1: potential M and A in your future?

176
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 3: I mean, look, we're always considering, you know, how to

177
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,920
Speaker 3: expand to different things, as you mentioned, we are you know,

178
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 3: we historically have mainly taught languages. We of late now,

179
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,840
Speaker 3: also teach math and music. We're always seeing what other

180
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 3: subjects we can teach, and there may be some M

181
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 3: and A opportunities there. However, you know, there's there's nothing

182
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 3: very specific that we're looking at. I mean generally, we're

183
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 3: just doing our thing and you know, getting better at

184
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 3: our main market, which is teaching languages.

185
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: All right, Louis, that's a good place to leave it.

186
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,079
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time today. That, of course is Louis

187
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,599
Speaker 1: von On. He is the CEO of Doueling Go