1 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of I Heart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, we have 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: a buffet of birds. Not literally, let's not eat the birds, 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: but we are talking about all sorts of birds. And 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: this is a really exciting episode because I am not alone. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: I am being joined by travel and wildlife writer Mike Unwin. 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: His book Around the World in eighty Birds documents birds 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: that Mike has encountered all over the world, the stories 10 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: of these birds, and it gives you a taste of 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: the wonderful diversity of our feathery dino friends. So we 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: are going to talk about some of these birds, and 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to Mike about his adventures. Welcome Mike, alright, 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 1: kid's good to be here. I am so excited. Your 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: book is really wonderful. It's beautifully illustrated. Uh, and the 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: descriptions of these birds are It's really fun because it 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: gives you this rundown of this whole essence of the bird. 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: You know, not just the biological description of what it is, 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: but what it's like and it's impact on human culture 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: and the interactions between birds and humans, for better or 21 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: for worse. And as people already listening to this show, 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: probably no, I love birds. I have a particular fondness 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: for them because they're so they're adorable, and their behaviors 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: are identifiable. But they're also little aliens. They are so 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: different from from us, from other mammals, but they have 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: so much personality. Just for the record, and you don't 27 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: have to convince me to love birds. But for you, 28 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: why birds? Why are you interested in birds? Okay, well, 29 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: it's it's good to know I'm preaching to the convertity. 30 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: I think I should. I should start with the confession, 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: which is you said these are eighty birds that I've 32 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: followed around the world. In fact, I topped it up 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: from the book the other day. I've not seen eighty 34 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: of them. I've seen fifty three. Oh my god, I know, 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: I know, I know. It's like a charlatan. Well, i'd 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: like to have say, maybe I could have started by 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: choosing eighty birds I've seen and called it, you know, 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: around around my gun Wins world. And I'm not sure 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: what the publisher would have gone for that, but yes, yeah, 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: exactly exactly eighty of the same one. Now there's that, 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: And there's also another confession while I'm while I'm laying 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: my my soul bear, I'm not a biologist. I'm not 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: a zoologist at all. So I think I'm an example 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: of one of the many people who've who have come 45 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: to birds and natural history from a non science background, 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: which says, in itself, partly answer to your question why 47 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: birds they reach out They have a broader appeal, and 48 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: that's where they're cemented in so many people's cultures and 49 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: iconography and literature and you name it. And I mean 50 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: why I'm I think they're They're everywhere. Birds are everywhere. 51 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: They're so conspicuous, they're so noisy. There are no other 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: parts of the natural world that makes so much sound 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: and such a variety of it um And you can 54 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: see them. You don't have to be in some remote wilderness. 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to be in a tropical rainforest or 56 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: on the top of the andes or something. You you 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: see birds in your back garden. You see them when 58 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: you can meet to work. You you don't even have 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: to have a garden. You see them from your window. 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: There are birds, and there are different birds in every place. 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, in your school, when you're growing up, in 62 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: your your your local park and your trip to the seaside, 63 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: they're everywhere and and they forced themselves on your attention, 64 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, um by the sound and they're fluttering about. 65 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: And for me, I mean, I grew up in in 66 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the suburban UK and I was a natural history obsessive 67 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: and I read all the books about you know, I 68 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: wanted to be tracking lions through the Sararengetti and diving 69 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: with great white sharks and doing all these exciting things. 70 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: And you don't get any of that in suburbia where 71 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: I lived, but you do get birds. And you look 72 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: out your window and there are blue tits and there 73 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: are great it's, and there are sparrows and chappages and 74 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: robins and what whatever. So they're they're they're they're there. 75 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: They satisfy that look, that that need to see the 76 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: natural world happening. And the more you look, the more 77 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: you see, and the more you see, the more you 78 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: want to know, and the more different ones you want 79 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: to see. So you have this kind of this fantastic 80 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: invitation to explore and discover more. And I think, I 81 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 1: mean that's a personal thing for a universal thing people. 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: I think the fact they fly is a pretty big deal. 83 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: I think if when when you when I was going 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: researching this book and looking at the number of different 85 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: cultures through history to which one bird or other has 86 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: been pivotal, I was, I was. I was just struck 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: by that, that the sort of the wonder that people 88 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: have in flight, because and when when when you hear 89 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: some some celebrity being interviewed and you know, what would 90 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: your superpower be, it's it's always I want to fly, 91 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: and whether it's it's freedom or escape or some kind 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: of magical transcendence of the you know, the dull terrestrial 93 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: world was stuck in. So I think, you know, birds 94 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: symbolize that for us, and they look good. So it's 95 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: a long answer to a simple question. But you know, 96 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: you could we could talk all they up white birds, 97 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: and there are a starting point, you know, starting with 98 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: birds for me, then it went in all sorts of 99 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: other directions too. You know, I have a very similar 100 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: story because when I was a kid, like a little, 101 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: very little kid before I can even remember, but my 102 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: mom remembers, I was obsessed with birds and I'd be 103 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: barely barely two years old running around outside chasing birds around, 104 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: And when my mom asked me what I was doing, 105 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: I would say something like I want to catch a bird, 106 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: and she'd ask me why, and I said, well, I 107 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: think we could be friends. So I think we'd like 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: to I don't know. We we we transfer our own 109 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: values to them as well. That that's why they loomed 110 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: so large in culture. We they've they've become emblematic of 111 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: all these things that they didn't actually ask for. So 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: whether it's eagles which are kind of mighty and powerful 113 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: and military, or whether it's either the owls such a 114 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: wise or sinister or saving magpies or whatever it might be. 115 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: We we we kind of, yeah, we saddle them with 116 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: up with our own values because they're there there. There's wonderful, 117 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: kind of exciting palettes on which we can paint our 118 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: own ideas. Yeah. I wonder sometimes because you know, as 119 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: a bird watcher, bird document or it seems like this 120 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: kind of one sided thing where you are they're kind 121 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: of spying on these birds, peering into their world as 122 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: the bird goes about. Yeah, but have you had any 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: experiences with birds where you felt like the bird was 124 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: curious about you? Or is that kind of antithetical to 125 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: the bird observer where you want to be unseen, but 126 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: are does that line ever get cross where the bird 127 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: is actually watching you and interested in what you're doing. Yeah, 128 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: that's a good question. I'd like to think I had 129 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: some kind of empirical scientific objectivity, but I don't. I'm 130 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: as I'm as pray to those and supremorphic ideas and 131 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: speculations as anyone else. And I mean there are times 132 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: I think I think, for instance, being I've been at 133 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: sea on long voyages in the Southern Ocean. I've been 134 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: watching albatrosses, for example, and you see this bird, it's 135 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: a speck in the wake of the ship. I mean, 136 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm the only person on deck and the weather is 137 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: not great, and I see this bird low above the waves, 138 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: and somehow it's miraculously gaining on us, catching up in 139 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the wake of the ship until it pulls alongside. And 140 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: I've had these moments where I've got this wandering albatross right, 141 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: which is a massive but it's three ms across the wings. 142 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: It's it's extraordinary bird, and it's hanging there sort of magically, 143 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: just a few meters away from me at eye level, 144 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: off the side of the ship and I and I 145 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: look at it and it just kind of looks sideways 146 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: at me and we make eye contact. And here it is, 147 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: this thing where in the middle of nowhere. And I'd 148 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: like to say there's some if it's not a moment 149 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: of communication, there's curiosity, it's you know, what, what are 150 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: you and what are you doing there? And there's and 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: here's this creature. I mean that albatross can live for 152 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: seventy years, right, They don't mature to breed until the 153 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: wandering albatross is still their twelve thirteen fourteen. There. They 154 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: are extraordinary creatures with complex lives that we got a 155 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: lot of which we can only guess at. And I 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: think we'd be foolish to underestimate what's going on. But 157 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: at the same time, I mean, of course, as a 158 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: bird watching your things are running away from you, most 159 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: flying from you know where, this great looming potential predator 160 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: that kind of blunders around in their world and off 161 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: they go. They tolerate you as long as they can 162 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: unless they're signing in it for them, you know, That's 163 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: what the scientists would tell you, of course, And again 164 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: we love to transfer these sort of values in the 165 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: UK are the robin with the European robin, I should 166 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: hasten to add is very different from your American rob 167 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: It is robin at all. It's a thrush. So let's yes, no, 168 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: I know the the European robin is like that for me. 169 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: The differences the European robin sphere American robin bird shape. 170 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: Your European robin is like a little poofball with legs. Yeah, 171 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: it does, definitely. It puffs itself up. And there's a 172 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: very very popular bird in the UK and especially with 173 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: gardeners because it's very confiding and people will be digging 174 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: in their back garden, turning over the soil and a 175 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: robin will turn up and it will sit close to 176 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: the more will perch on the fork handles, as we've 177 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: illustrated in the book, and people develop a relationship with it, 178 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: and then then people start talking about my robin. Oh, yeah, 179 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: my robin was out here so and he popped in 180 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: to say hello, and yeah, you know, we had a 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: little chat and I gave him some worms. And often 182 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: may not be him, it's probably a her, and they 183 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: may not even be the same robin. But people love 184 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: to develop this idea that they somehow forwards this this 185 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: bond of the bed, and the truth is perhaps a 186 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: little less less kind of appealing, which is that Robbin's evolved. 187 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: They they feed on small insects, feed in the understory 188 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: of forests and woodland, and they probably evolved, it's thought, 189 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: in tandem with wild boars. And wild boars they root 190 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: through the leaflets and they dig up grubs, they turn 191 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: over the soil, and the robin will hang around and 192 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: drop down and pick up a worm or or a beetle, larva, 193 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: or an insect and an essentially, gardeners are just being 194 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: kind of upright wild boars and Robbin's. No, there's no 195 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: there's no harm for them. They you know, why not 196 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: take what they can. We're just tall, upright wild boars. 197 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, yeah exactly. I wish you know, yeah, 198 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I feel a bit more self respect maybe. But there's 199 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: one story that occurred to me. Actually when you say 200 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: this about interacting with birds, I mean, whether they're curious 201 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: about me or not, I don't know. But there's a 202 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: bird in my book called the Greater honey Guide, which 203 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: you may know about. It's an African bird and it's 204 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: it's found all over Subsuda in Africa. But I've I've 205 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: actually in my book each bird is connected to a 206 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: particular country, and in this case, I made it Zambia 207 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: because it was in Zambia. I had an amazing experience. 208 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: I was. I was out on foot in a in 209 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: a in a national park. Kafuoi National Park is a 210 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: huge wilderness and I was walking with an armed guide 211 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: and we were in big game country and there were 212 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: elephants around, and we were following this trail through the 213 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: bush and I heard a honey guide calling. And I 214 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: know the honey guid, and it's an unobtrusive brown little bird, 215 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: nothing very spectacular to look at, and it's got a 216 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: fairly recognizable call. But it was doing this this frantic call. 217 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: It was like it was like a frenzy honey guide. 218 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: It was a twittering, twittering. And my guide said, yeah, 219 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: it once it wants, it wants us. It wants to 220 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: lead us to honey And I know about it. I've 221 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: read about it, but I was a little skeptical that 222 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: this bird. Suppose if it feeds on bees, wax and 223 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: and and grubs, larger bees, and supposedly it co ops 224 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: the assistance of a large mammal i humans, but supposedly 225 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: also honey batches to get at the business, to plunder it, 226 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: to pull it out, you know, to take what they 227 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: want and then leave something for the honeyguide. And you 228 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: read about this as a kid, and that it also 229 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: felt a little apocryphal. So we were walking along and 230 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: here the honey guide was flying ahead, treat to treat, 231 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: and the path forked and we had to head right. 232 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: So we went off right, leaving the honey guides below us, 233 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: and it came back. It came along the path and 234 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: now it was in It had wound itself up into 235 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: a complete par of twitter. Why aren't you exactly come 236 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: on for good? Honestly? And it was ahead, It was 237 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: flitted ahead of us, and I said, look, can me, 238 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, just indulge me. Can we just see what 239 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: happens here? Can we? So we retraced our steps to 240 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: where the paths forked, and the honey guy then flew 241 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: ahead down the lower path. We followed it. And what 242 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: it does is it flies from tree to tree, stops, calls, 243 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: flies on the next tree, we catch up, and moves on. 244 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: It leads you. I love that. I love the scientific 245 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: name by the way, which is indicator. Indicator tells you what. 246 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just on the nose exactly, it's actually there. 247 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: You go. Um. And finally we get to a bay 248 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: about huge grape African tree and it flies up into 249 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: the upper branches and it just falls silent, and in 250 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: the silence, I could just hear this hum and it 251 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: was the buzzing of bees. And then we've been oculars 252 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: half up the trunk. That's what appears to be smoke 253 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: coming out, and there was a bees nest in a 254 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: hole in the trunk of this bare back and that 255 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: the honey guide had just it had just flown up 256 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: and they perched on the branch and it just was 257 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: completely silent. And it was like, okay, come on, guys, 258 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: doing stuff now. I'm ready. I'm ready. And this was 259 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: about this was about four or five meters up the 260 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: tree trunk. We were not going to climb and stick 261 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: our face in and letting the bees nest. And the 262 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: whole thing was amazing, and I was, it was extraordinary, 263 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: and we left it. We left the honey guide. There's 264 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: that old bird saying you can lead a human to 265 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of bees, but you can't make the human 266 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: get the bees down. I think, yeah, yeah, that's right. 267 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: It's in all their bird folklore. Yeah yeah, and that 268 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: it's quite because in African folklore actually that I mean 269 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: people have people. This is something that probably evolved with 270 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: hunter gather people's you know, centrals going. But to this day, 271 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: subsistence farmers in Central Africa still use sunny guys in 272 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: this way to to toct honey. And the story goes 273 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: that you must always once you hauld them because they 274 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: used smoke. They smoke out the bees to dull them. 275 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: They hauld out the business and you must always leave 276 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: some wax some of the honeycomb for the honey guys 277 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: because if you don't, if you don't do that next time, 278 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: it's going to take you to a black member or something. No, 279 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if they would be so so petty, 280 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: but you know, it is interesting because in these some 281 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: beotic relationships, there are there are cases where they will 282 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: learn to distrust individuals if you don't basically pay play 283 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: by their rules. This is the case in many like 284 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, we know that with yes corvids very good memory, 285 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: they will teach the younger generations not to trust you 286 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: the human if you have wronged them, which many university 287 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: researching students interns have learned the hard way being part 288 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: of these studies, and it it is. It is fascinating 289 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: to me because I think it is true birds we 290 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: can't really anthropomorphize them in the sense that, you know, 291 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: this bird is not necessarily thinking great, you know, I'm 292 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: helping this human get honey. This bird is thinking when 293 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: this happened? When I do this, do this a series 294 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: of events, I get bees wax, and I get larva, 295 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: and you know. But I think that we also can't 296 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: shy away too much from attributing emotion to them because 297 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: the bird being frustrated. I could believe that bird is 298 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: frustrated that you're not following it and not paying attention 299 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: to it. I think it was legitimately peeved that you 300 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: were not picking up what it was putting down, which 301 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: I think is there's something so charming about that that 302 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: this thing, this like living dinosaur that's turned small and 303 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: flits around and has is cute and has feathers, still 304 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: has these like such a personality. Yeah, I think so, 305 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: and I think we underestimate that with our peril. Yeah. 306 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: And as for emotion, I mean you get it into 307 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: tricky philosophical areas here, don't you, Because all this research 308 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: done on corvids and ravens and it's discott and magpie 309 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: is discovering capacity for things that were once held to 310 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: be exclusively human and grieving and envy and all sorts 311 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: of things like that, and um. But I think you 312 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: also have to flip it around and say, well, you 313 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: know we we we forever we've separated ourselves from the 314 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: rest of the animal world by claiming that we have 315 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: the sophisticated suite of emotions that make us. But I mean, 316 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, we we have to break the done and 317 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: us what are they for? Half of them are about 318 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: getting one up on somebody else, so obtaining you know, 319 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: rewards or manipulation, you know, manipulating social circumstances to our 320 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: own ends. And just as social birds do different expressions 321 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: of the same instincts, we just do with clothes on anything. Yeah, no, 322 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: I I think that is exactly on. You know, when 323 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: you look at emotions, it's a reward system. And you 324 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: know birds and other animals also need a reward system, 325 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: so we are not so special. Well, I'll uh leave 326 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: you guys with your not so special over the ad break. 327 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: But when we return, we're going to talk more about 328 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: these wonderful birds described in this book and just give 329 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: you a little little taste of these spectacular birds you 330 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: can find all over the world. Will be right back 331 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: and we are back, and I wanted to talk about 332 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: some of the birds from your book that I really 333 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: loved reading about and that I think. It's just there's 334 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: such a wide diversity of birds. It is amazing. And 335 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the evolution towards flight seems to 336 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: just do something that you know, it forces these animals 337 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: to evolve into such interesting niches and it gets I mean, 338 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: it doesn't force them, it's more it gives them so 339 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: many more opportunities that they can evolve into a different niche. 340 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: And even flightless birds we see this where you know, 341 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: with penguins, yes they're flightless, Uh, they lost their ability 342 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: to flight, but now they have this incredibly complex system 343 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: of swimming and this awkward life on land but far 344 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: more graceful life under the water for a bird, which 345 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: is incredible. And so I think that that flight and 346 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: birds and this initial evolution towards flight just opened up 347 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: so many different paths for them. No wonder they have 348 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: taken such a diverse path. And one really interesting bird 349 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about from your book is the 350 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: palm nut vulture, because this I love vultures. I think 351 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: they get a bad rap because they, you know, they 352 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: eat carcasses. They're spooky maybe, but they're they're wonderful, wonderful animals. 353 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: They provide a very important service. And these ones are 354 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: interesting because these are kind of like the Pandas of 355 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: the bird world, because they the palm nut vulture. It 356 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: has descended from a line of carnivores scavengers who feed 357 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: on carcasses, but this one is different. What is going 358 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: on with this guy? Yeah? Great, it's it's what's the phrase, 359 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: the exception that proves the rule, but which never really 360 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: never really, I don't understand me. But it's an African vulture. 361 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: It's the smallest of the Old World vultures. It's the 362 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: smallest black and white vulture found around the coast, and 363 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: it feeds mostly on the nuts, the the palm nuts 364 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: of raffia palms and oil palms. So it is a 365 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: a vegetarian carnival and so I don't know whether it's why. 366 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: The next question is why, of course, And I think 367 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: it has to be because it has seen documentaries about 368 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: the huge damage that meat eating is doing to our 369 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: planet and it's decided to take the responsible path and 370 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, do its bit for planet Earth. And it's 371 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: either that or is the fact that long before we 372 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: started pumping up fossil fuels it and cutting down rainforests 373 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: it as you say, it's about diversification, it's about finding 374 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: a niche. I mean, I mean the world of birds 375 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: of prey, there's a lot of competition, especially in Africa. 376 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot of different raptors vying for the best 377 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: parts of the carcass or of the living animals, along 378 00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: with other terrestrial predators, small mammals, small kind of wals, snakes, whatever, 379 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: and wherever there's wherever the nature offers a niche, a 380 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: vacancy to be filled. If you like um, you know 381 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: the laws of adaptation, A natural selection will find something 382 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: to fill it. And in this case, the partner vulture 383 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: has has Um has has risen to the challenge and 384 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: it's able to obtain most nutrition it needs and has 385 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: developed a technique for which it has no no competition 386 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: from other birds and feeds mostly on on oil pants 387 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: that the fruit of them, which are pretty hard to 388 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: break into. Um. But it's not has to be said, 389 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: it's not an entirely strict vegetarian. It does days, it does. Yeah, 390 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: it's like those um you know. You hear about the 391 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: bacon sandwich being the demise of a vegetarian occasionally and 392 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: all principles crumble though. They will say what would be 393 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: the what would be the bacon sandwich for the palm 394 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: nt vulture, Well, the bacon sandwich would be crabs, crabs 395 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: on the beach, crabs with ketchup, maybe the crabs and 396 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: dead fish scavenging that people have put out as an experiment, 397 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: put out dead fish on the beach in Parmimer vulture 398 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: territory and they've had no problem coming down and and 399 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: filling their their face or they're building their fish. But 400 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: they're not really adapted. They don't have the predatory prowess 401 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: of other birds of prey. They also can't compete with 402 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: the larger vultures at a carcass. I've actually seen them. 403 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: I've seen them around a carcass where larger vultures are 404 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: gorging themselves, and they wait till the big ones have 405 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: flown off and scraps left behind. Um. But and they've 406 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: they've adapted as well. They're they're they're more solitary than 407 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: most old world vultures. And you and see them around 408 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: human habitation a lot if you go to the west 409 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: coast of Africa, places like Senegal and Gambier and areas 410 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and that they're often around fishing villages and on the beach. Um, yeah, 411 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: there they are. That's uk the oxymoron of nature of 412 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: vegetarian carnival. Yes, I mean we've had that happened in 413 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: in multiple species of carnivores, and and sometimes very interesting 414 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: like for um. Dogs of course evolved from an extinct 415 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: wolf ancestor a common ancestor between the dogs and the 416 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: current gray wolf. And dogs originally were strict carnivores, but 417 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: because they had this relationship with humans, they actually started 418 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 1: to uh evolve so that they could digest things like 419 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: grains and wheat and so like. Now, of course you 420 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: cannot feed a dog only bread. That will not be 421 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: healthy for the dog, but it can actually just more 422 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: more a greater variety of things than a wolf can 423 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: digest because it had this relationship with humans, and it's 424 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: fascinating that evolution can work on that scale. We think 425 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: of it as something over you know, millions of years, 426 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: not something over sort of our short human kind of 427 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: existence here, but it does. And you know, of course, 428 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: I brought up pandas earlier because pandas were are a 429 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: vegetarian carnivore. They are extremely inefficient. They are not. They 430 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: are not. We're not originally evolved to be able to 431 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: digest that much fiber and that much vegetation, and so 432 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: they compensate that by just eating a huge amount of 433 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: it and sleeping a lot, and it works for them. 434 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: And a lot of bears eats primarily vegetable method. Yeah, 435 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, and they they they've evolved, They've got they 436 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: they come from a carnivore body plan. They've evolved from 437 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: the same roots as cats and dogs and hyenas and 438 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: otters and janets and all those things. But I think 439 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot of like an ultimate that their sustenance comes 440 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: largely from berries and roots. And and yet you know, 441 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: they've got they've got the the dentition of a of 442 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: a carnivore, they've got the forward facing eyes of a hunter. 443 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: They've civets as well. They eat a lot of fruit 444 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: massive a lot of berries kind of shows you that 445 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: as environments change, you either need to kind of keep 446 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: with it, like get with the times and be able 447 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: to diversify, or you fail. So they are probably carnivores. 448 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we know there are plenty of carnivores that 449 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: went extinct because they couldn't compete and they could not 450 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: get enough prey. It's actually, I mean people think of 451 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: carnivores as sort of leading this easy, fearless life, like 452 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: the lions are the kings and queens of the savannah 453 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: because they don't have a predator. From it they are 454 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: they live life on the edge because if they miss 455 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: a few meals, they're goners. So speaking of prey doitors now, 456 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: I do want to talk about an actual predator. It 457 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: is a bird who's not a vulture. It is a falcon, 458 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: but it does have a naked face like a vulture. 459 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: It's the northern crusted care carrot. So why does it 460 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: have that naked face. It's an adaptation like the vulture, 461 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: I believe, which is to stop its face being soiled, 462 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: its feathers from being soiled with blood and gore and 463 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: other unpleasant matter when it sticks, it's it's head inside 464 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: a carcass and pulls out what it can. So it's 465 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: an adaptation that quite a few scavenging birds have developed. Yeah, 466 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: and you see that with with condors or vultures. The 467 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: very naked bare faces makes them look maybe not so pretty, 468 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: but it keeps them much more hygienic than they would 469 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 1: be if they are getting this mass of blood and 470 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: gets matted in their feathers. So they're actually they want 471 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: to be clean that pretty to each other as well. Yeah, 472 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: of course, yeah, I think I think they're beautiful. I 473 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: love them. I'm I'm I'm a vulture fan. Two. And 474 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: but then there's an interesting thing about about adaptation, isn't it, 475 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: Because the New World vultures are not related to the 476 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: Old World vultures at all. So the New World vultures 477 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: are in fact not birds of brain. So the condors 478 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: and the Turkey vulture and so on, they actually come 479 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: they're much they come from an order of birds and 480 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: more closer road to the storks, and so they're not 481 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: parts of the acid picture forms the the the the 482 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: Old World birds of prose and the Old World ultures 483 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: are grouped taxonomically with the eagles and hawks and buzzards 484 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: and kites and harriers and so on, the New World 485 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: ones completing separate more closely related to storks. They have 486 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: they've they have converged. It's convergent evolution. They've converged on 487 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: the same lifestyle. They've fulfilled the same niche in the 488 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: New World as the vultures having the Old world. So 489 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: they've developed the same attributes, the naked face, the guard 490 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: against soil plumage, the fantastic soaring wings in order to 491 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: too eyes on thermals and scan for pay over a 492 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: great distance. That the same social behavior gathering at pecarcas. 493 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: So things can come from different basis and converge and 494 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: and reach a very similar form. And I think it's 495 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: only really once we've got into molecular taxonomy and DNA 496 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: and some one that we realized that these things were 497 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: actually not as closely related as we thought. And that's 498 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: the same with falcons. In fact, now falcons have been 499 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: split from the birds of prey fulkon it forms. Yeah, 500 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: they're so they're more closely related to parrots. That's amazing. 501 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: So this is one that yeah, I know it's traditionalists 502 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: like me. We grew up with the bird book, and 503 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: you you flipped through the bird book and okay, okay, 504 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: here the birds to pray, the big ones with the 505 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: sharp bills and the wicked talents, and it goes vultures, eagles, hawks, whatever, 506 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: and then you've got the falcons at the end. Shouldn't 507 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: be that falcons should be off nearer the parrots. That's incredible. Yeah, yeah, 508 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: they've converged also to use that convergent evolution term, they've 509 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: they've developed the same attributes, the same techniques, and same 510 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: ability to say, capture birds in flight and to tear 511 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: them up. So, so where's that leave us with the 512 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: Carra carrat. It's the Carra carrat is is one of 513 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: the full coniform so it's related to the to the falcons, 514 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't chase birds around in flight. U it is. Well, 515 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: we we've just been talking about the Pardner vulture, which 516 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: is highly specialized. It's a serious specialist. It's got a 517 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: very narrow little niche that it has adapted to exploit. 518 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: The Carra carrat is a generalist. It's the opposite. It's 519 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: it's a kind of the crow of the birds of prey. Well, 520 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, it can. It can chase things and kill them, 521 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: but it can also steal food from other birds. It 522 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: can also avail itself of a bit of road kill 523 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: if it drops down to a highway it can. Unlike 524 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: other falcons, it doesn't hunt a learning. It moves around 525 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: in groups. Um sometimes you know, you can corporate with 526 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: each other in finding food, and you can overwhelm a 527 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: larger prey item if there are several of you. It 528 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: hops around on the ground behaving more like a big 529 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: chicken than sort of you know, noble, dashing, elegant Peregon falcon. 530 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, so it's a it's kind of it's got 531 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: a solution to every feeding opportunity and it is incredibly 532 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: successful as a result. So you get the I have 533 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: in my book the the northern crested Cara Carra. In fact, 534 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: it's it's found all the way from Mexico, but it's 535 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: the bird from Mexico in my book. It's found all 536 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: the way down to the south of patagony of the 537 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 1: whole way through the same fact, from about probably Texas 538 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: in the north down to Argentina in the south. And 539 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty ubiquitous and it does very very well and 540 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: it's not a necessarily a solitary bird, right, it can 541 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: work in groups in its hunting. That's so interesting to 542 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: me because falcons, I mean, it makes some more in 543 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: terms of like it being more closely related to parrots, 544 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: which are highly highly social, but that it's it's a 545 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: relatively I mean, corvettes are also very social, but it's 546 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: it seems like somewhat unusual for a bird of prey 547 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 1: to work in a group because we often think of 548 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: it as like an owl, you know, the solitary hunter, 549 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: or an eagle or a hawk, which maybe they may 550 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: kind of form a pair, but they don't usually form 551 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: like a group that actually hunts together socially. Yeah, that's right, 552 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: but they're not always in groups. I think they will. 553 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: They will adapt as the occasion demands. So I think 554 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: they can play the solitary loaner and hang out and 555 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: kind of be cool, or they can join the gag 556 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: with them and when there's a large carcass and and 557 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: share the spoils, you know, when it when it makes 558 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: sense to do so, and um, and it's it's in 559 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: these social words that you get the most interesting communication 560 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: as well, because they have to sort out the pottics, 561 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, the hierarchies and the dominance of certain individuals 562 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: and so on. That is really interesting. Oh and I 563 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: also wanted you to talk about a little bit about 564 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: the Caacres notion of romance because I thought that was 565 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: very interesting. The charac cars a notion of romance. Yeah, 566 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: it would probably be a candle at dinner for two 567 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: over a roadkime on the dinner romance. I. Yeah. They 568 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: they have a very loud call, and they duet, so 569 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: a pair will get together, um, and they form bonds 570 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: at last throughout the breeding season for for several years 571 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: as well, and they will perform these duet calls to 572 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: strengthen their pair bonds like a lot of birds suit, 573 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: like a lot of seabirds too, and some other birds 574 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: of prey. And they throw their heads right back so 575 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: that the bill actually almost such as the name of 576 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: the neck shoulders to utter these these calls that they 577 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: do in town in duet, which is a very harsh, 578 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: grating kind of cattling call, which is where they get 579 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: the name from. I think Katah, Yeah, yeah, I think 580 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,959 Speaker 1: that's I think it's kind of on a mata peak yeah. Um. 581 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, and they I think when they when they're 582 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: paired up, they reinforce their bonds with with preening, hallow preening, 583 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: and so what and so, and it's a it's a 584 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: beautiful bird as well, it is. It's a beautiful bird, 585 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: and it's a character. It's a bird that's got something. 586 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: When you see them, they watch you. And and also 587 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: some you know that the naked place we tend. It's 588 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: it's bizarre. We don't like things that are naked, but 589 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: we are, which is strange, you know, I know it's 590 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: very very odd. But if you if you ask people 591 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: to name ugly animals, what do you get? You get 592 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: water hog, naked, mole rat, you get things like and 593 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: if it's birds, it's mariboo, stalks and vultures, anything that's 594 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: without feathers naked. I know what what's our problem? This 595 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: is some deep seated human issue. I think we don't 596 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: like it if it's naked. And and I think some 597 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: people find a cara cara less attractive than other other 598 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: birds of prey. So for anything that's a scavenger and 599 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: gets reviled for that reason, I think it needs it 600 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: needs a bit more. I think it's stunning. I mean 601 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: it's got this beautiful orange face, beautiful white feathers on 602 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: its neck, and then the jet black feathers on the 603 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: top of its head and on the rest of its body. 604 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: It's gorgeous. Stunning. Now on two birds that I think 605 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: universally people find stunning, but I think are quite absurd 606 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: in their own way. Hummingbirds. So these are such strange creatures. 607 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: Their lives are really fast and intense. Uh. They often 608 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: have these beautiful jewel like bodies, have these absurdly long beaks, 609 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: very sharp and needle like, and their method of flight 610 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: is more like a bee than another bird. And they 611 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: have these incredibly rapid metabolisms that means a missed meal 612 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: could be a death sentence. And so uh, the sword 613 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: build hummingbird that you discuss in your book is, from 614 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: an evolutionary perspective, just ridiculous. It's very it's bold and 615 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 1: daring in a way that almost seems stupid, because this 616 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: is a tiny bird that, again, like every every ounce 617 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: of its body weight and every you know, moment it 618 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: spends flying is potentially gambling its life because it needs 619 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: to be able to get enough food, uh, to keep 620 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: up with this extremely rapid metabolism. So to invest so 621 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: much in this ridiculously long beak seems absurd, It seems foolish. 622 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: So uh, why is it worth it for them to, uh, 623 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: to have this ridiculously long beak? Because I'm not talking 624 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: about like you know, normally hummingbirds, they do have that 625 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: long needle like beak for sipping nectar, but this one, 626 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: it is ridiculous that the sword build hummingbirds build. It's 627 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: the only bird whose bill is longer than its own 628 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: body length. So this is a bird that when it 629 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: when it roosts, when it perches, it actually has to 630 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: hold its head up to tilt its bill upwards because 631 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: if it held its bill outside ways, it would tilt 632 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: off the ridiculous What was it thinking? I know, I know, 633 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: But then the weird thing is, of course, you know, 634 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: as as as evolutionary scientists will will tell you, there 635 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: is no such thing as ridiculous is it? Because if 636 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: it didn't work, it wouldn't exist by its very nature, 637 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: it can only have evolved this, this ludicrous, bizarre observes, 638 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, appendage, it can only 639 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: have evolved because through that long drawn out process of 640 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: trial and error of natural selection, you know, through genetic mutation, 641 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,959 Speaker 1: through environmental change and so on, it has produced something 642 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 1: that has a place and that functions, and that gives 643 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: it a role that removes it from the competition, that 644 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: allows it to succeed. Otherwise it wouldn't be out there 645 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: like anything else. And in this case, I think there's 646 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: something like three hundred species of hummingbird in the world, 647 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: and each they feed on nectar, and they feed by 648 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: hovering in mid air, and there's a interesting they're the 649 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: only bird that can truly hover. So we may think 650 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: of things like kestrals as hovering because they can remain stationary. 651 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: But what things like what kestrals are doing are they're 652 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: flying into a breeze and they're counteracting it. And hummingbirds 653 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: are the only birds that can hover in a in 654 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: a vacuum because their wings. I'm sure I'm sure you 655 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: know this some amazing slowed up film footage that shows 656 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: you that the wings beaten this kind of figure of 657 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: eight pan which means that they they generate thrust on 658 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: the forward stroke as well as the background backward strokes. 659 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: So in a vacuum they can still absolutely stationary, which 660 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: means they position themselves in front of a flower and 661 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: with their with their bill, they suck out its nectar. 662 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: But each species of hummingbird is adapted to different flowers 663 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: um and the bill length or the bill shape fits 664 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: the corolla of the flower, so the inside of the 665 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: petals from which it derives a nectar. And in the 666 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: case of the sawbill hummingbird, you guessed it. It feeds 667 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: on flowers with a very long, deep corolla. So there 668 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: are no other hummingbirds that can reach deep into the 669 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: I think it's a passive flora mixer. It's a kind 670 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: of a climbing vine like flower with these very deep blooms, 671 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: and it's found in my book the this bird is 672 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: represents Ecuador, so this is a bird of the of 673 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: the mid level Andy's tropical cloud forests on the edge 674 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: of the Andes where this flower grows um. But it's 675 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: not a one way thing because the flower, like with bees, 676 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: like with a lot of pollinators with insects, the flower 677 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: relies upon the hummingbird two for pollination, and the hummingbirds 678 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: follow a regular course around a sort of outside of flowers, 679 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: regularly transferring pollen from flower to flower as they sit 680 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: the nectar and so that's what they do. That's what 681 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: the flower lies upon, that's what the bird relies upon. 682 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: There are no other huneybirds that can reach into that 683 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: particular flower, So it's got its own it's got its 684 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: own exclusive many. Yeah, it's so interesting to me because 685 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: it's as if the bird and this flower have this 686 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: exclusive contract with each other that's developed, you know, over 687 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: an evolutionary timescale of you know, the nectar is costly 688 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: for a flower to produce. It doesn't want to give 689 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: it out to anyone unless, uh, you're going to perform 690 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: a service for this flower, which is enabling pollination, and 691 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: so it will often specialize for a specific pollinator because 692 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: you know, it knows that that pollinator is going to 693 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: take its pollen and then distribute it in a way 694 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: that benefits this flower. Whereas like if it allowed any 695 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: kind of like maybe a little arboreal animal to a 696 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: small arboreal mammal to get in their reach in there 697 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 1: and drink the nectar, maybe that is not going to 698 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: have the same kind of range, the same kind of 699 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: efficient pollination as this hummingbird. And so by essentially they're 700 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: co evolving the system of they have this exclusive relationship 701 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: the hummingbird and this flower, and it's to each other's 702 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: benefit as long as nothing happens to one of them. Yeah, 703 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: I mean I in my house, in my kitchen, there 704 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,479 Speaker 1: is a very high cupboard and I tend I tend 705 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: to put a bag of cash you nuts right at 706 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: the back of that cupboard on the top shelf, which 707 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: is out of the reach of my wife and daughter. 708 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: And it's a it's a very similar thing, and except 709 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that cash you gets much out of 710 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: it well as someone with a very tall husband. Um. 711 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: I have one word for your wife and daughter, and 712 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: it's tongs. Tongues or a stool, Yes, stool and the 713 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: tongs and you're undefeatable. Yeah, yeah, exactly, the tongue bills, hummingbird, 714 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: it will happen, exactly. Yeah. That's the thing I love 715 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: about birds actually that if you look at one of 716 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 1: the most remarkable aspects of birds I think are their bills. 717 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: And birds bills evolved obviously they they as part of 718 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: the need to jettison weight in order to fly, so 719 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: birds don't have the heavy jawbones and of mammals. They 720 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 1: have this this horny the keratin sheath billum and of course, 721 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: you know, the disadvantage of that is they can't chew 722 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: their food. They don't have teeth. Teeth are heavy. But 723 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: that's why they have the gizzard down in the digestive 724 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: tract in order to or flower down to crush food 725 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: down there. But you look at the range of birds, bills, 726 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: and pretty much every human tool you could put out 727 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: of a toolbox and the garage is represented in the 728 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: bird world. There are you know, woodpeckers have chisels, uh, 729 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: spoonbills have saves, um crossbills have players. You know, eagles 730 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: have meat hooks. Flamingoes have strainers, strainers exactly exactly that. 731 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 1: It's incredible, the whole it was all, it was all there, 732 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: the template for most of our our kitchen utensils there 733 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,800 Speaker 1: in the bird world. The flint stones wasn't too off. 734 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: You could just replace all your kitchen utensils with birds. Yeah, 735 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 1: just if you could somehow tame this fantastic kind of 736 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: avery birds from und the wall and just have them 737 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: running a kitchen. Um, Yeah, and that would be good. Well, 738 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break while we 739 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: try to train a flock of birds to run our kitchens. 740 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: And when we return, we are going to talk more 741 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: about the interactions between birds and humans. So I have 742 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: a personal relationship with one of the birds that you 743 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: describe in your book, the common swifts, because right now 744 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: in northern Italy they are everywhere. They are zooming through 745 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: the sky and screaming. They I mean, it doesn't bother me. 746 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: I think it's um. Perhaps if they moved right next 747 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: to my podcasting window and started screaming, that might get 748 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: a little bit troublesome. But they love it here. All 749 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: these buildings have these we have so many old buildings 750 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: here that there are all these little nooks and crannies 751 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: that they can squeeze into and nest in. And they 752 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: are seasonal, um and they but yeah, they just fill 753 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: the sky with piercingly loud calls. What are what are 754 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: they doing? What are they trying to say with all 755 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: of that screaming. Yeah, that's a tricky one. What are yours? 756 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: Of course screaming in Italian? For me to to work 757 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 1: that one out. I mean, they are like all birds, 758 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: they are they're territorial. So this time of year, it's 759 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: the breeding season. They've just arrived from from Africa. They're 760 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: the latest of the um Afro European migrants Afro a 761 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: Palearctic migrants who say to arrive and they stay the 762 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 1: shortest time, So they arrive in May and they're gone 763 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: by the end of July early August. So they are 764 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: setting up territories and they're breeding. They are screaming as 765 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,879 Speaker 1: they come in towards their breeding to their their particular nest. 766 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: I think the loudest noise, the most screaming you'll hear, though, 767 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: is at the end of the season, when you get 768 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: the fledglings, which forms what they call screaming parties. Really, 769 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: that's what they call, yeah, screaming past wonderful. Yeah, of course, 770 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a human equivalents. And then that's when 771 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,439 Speaker 1: they they've basically left, they've just pledged, they've left the nest, 772 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: and you have these young birds the first thing on 773 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: their agenda is migrate to Africa. The parents have gone, 774 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: and so they will circle around above the towns where 775 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: from which they fledged in these groups, just trying out 776 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: their wings and screaming wonderful and it's an extraordinary sound 777 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,760 Speaker 1: for me. It is the sound of summer in Europe. 778 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely love it, and it's a sound sadly that's becoming 779 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: less frequent. We where I live here in Brighton on 780 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: the south coast of England, and we have them here, 781 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: but like in many towns, there is a swift survey 782 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: work going on because numbers are declining, so people are 783 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: trying to monitor how many swifts are, how many are 784 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: returning and so on. They are the most extraordinary birds 785 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: of all for me, and there are an example I 786 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: think of how easy it is to overlook the extraordinary 787 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: because they're not spectacular in their plumage. They just they 788 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: don't have a very varied voice, just this scream. I 789 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: think that they all The old English name for them 790 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: was devil bird Middle Ages, and I think that scream 791 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: was something to do that. But they are they are 792 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: the ultimate bird. They are completely aerial. There is nothing 793 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: that can compete with the swift in terms of mastery 794 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 1: of the sky. They look like a military drone. They 795 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 1: look like they were designed by NASA. Yeah, well, I 796 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: think it's probably that. I would have thought NASA is 797 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: more likely to probably trus they. I mean, they are incredible. 798 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: They they are so aerial. If it wasn't for the 799 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: fact that eggs can't float in the air would never land, 800 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: you know, the tiresome kind of demands of gravity mean 801 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: that they have to find a place to lay their 802 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 1: eggs and fledge their young really they're young. But then 803 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: they're off and they drink on the wing. They will. 804 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: They drink on the wing. They mate on the wing, 805 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: they feed on the wing, they connect, collect nest material 806 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: on the wing, They sleep on the wing. They go 807 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: up to great heights, and they kind of go into 808 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: an autopilot circling they It is now known that for me, 809 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: this is as an incredible the factors any I've heard 810 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: from the bird world individual swift may go for. They 811 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 1: now think two years without landing, that's incredible, that's incredible. 812 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: One not touching down, and we kind of think, well, 813 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: how how can that be possible. They've got to take 814 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: a rest. They were, but they don't. I mean, they 815 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: no more need to touch down. It's like saying, why 816 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 1: doesn't a fish come out of the sea and take 817 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: a rest on the beach. They the land is not 818 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 1: the medium for swift. Their feet have actual feed in 819 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: the evolutionary terms, so much they can't they can't walk. 820 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 1: They only have little tiny little claws with which they 821 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 1: can cling to vertical surfts. They can't if one lands, 822 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, one has an accident crash lands, they can't 823 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 1: take off. You have to launch them. So they and 824 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: here's just as a side is you evolution? Do you 825 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: know swift's closest relatives? No? I don't, what are they? Hummingbirds? Amazing? 826 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: That makes a lot of swift swifts and hummingbirds are 827 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: descended have died. So this is not conversionally involition, is 828 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: divergent evolution. They've come from the same taxonomy group. They're both. 829 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: They they formerly the apodiformers, which means without feet. Apod 830 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,840 Speaker 1: and humming words also have tiny feet, and swift do. 831 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: And the structure of a hummingbird's wing is actually quite similar, 832 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: a very longhand a similar shoulder joint, but hummingbirds have 833 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: turned that into a hovering mechanism for the main stationary 834 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: in midair and and feeding on nectar. Swifts use it 835 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,040 Speaker 1: to hurtle around at breakneck speed. And what they're doing 836 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: up there is they feed on tiny invertebrates you could 837 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: say insects, but actually they we now know from looking 838 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 1: at their food that a lot of its spiders. So 839 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: in summer in summer spiders dispersed by baby spiders. God, 840 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 1: they've put up a little silk and thread off the 841 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: the atmosphere exactly, and that the sky is full of them. 842 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: And what swifts are feeding on is aerial plankton. It's 843 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: like psych a it's like a blue whale sailing the 844 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: surface waters with its bally and plates for for plankton. 845 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: A swift is doing it in the sky. And they 846 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: all of Charlotte's children. Yeah, exactly exactly. A brutal, isn't it. 847 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: But they they what they do is they make a 848 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: food ball in their in their crop or in their throats, 849 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,360 Speaker 1: so they will gather up to the scientists have broken 850 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,840 Speaker 1: down these these food balls and they'll find up to 851 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,280 Speaker 1: a hundred individual invertebrates. So the swift call shoes around, 852 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: gathering them inform a ball, and it will take that 853 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: back to feed to its yard at the nests. And 854 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: and they they are so dependent on what's happening in 855 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,640 Speaker 1: the atmosphere. They can they can read the wind currents, 856 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,799 Speaker 1: the air currents, like like fishing the open ocean, read 857 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,280 Speaker 1: the ocean currents, so know where food is converging. Um. 858 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's quite interesting that study done on swift 859 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: on the south coast of England recently revealed that many 860 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: of those nesting here in Brighton, they would go and 861 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 1: fee they collect food in northern France. Wow. So because 862 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,440 Speaker 1: there's no food around here, the aircraft they follow storm fronts, 863 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: so we'll see where the storm fronts are blowing the 864 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,280 Speaker 1: aerial plankton, and so off they go, nip across the channel, 865 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: feed around northern France, come back with the food ball, 866 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: give it to their young at the nest. No worries 867 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: are or anything where so yeah, so they they are 868 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: just astonishing. And when the youngster leaves the nest and fledges, 869 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 1: they fly to Africa and nobody quite knows where they 870 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,279 Speaker 1: go because they can't be ringed. They can now be 871 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: followed the tiny satellite transmitters, but they've never been ringed 872 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: because they don't come down in the same way, and 873 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,880 Speaker 1: so they zoom around the center of the continent. They 874 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,319 Speaker 1: may go as far as South Africa, but a lot 875 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,280 Speaker 1: of them are over the Congo basin and they're following 876 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 1: storm fronts. They're basically going where the where the air 877 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: carries the insects. And because swifts don't breathe until they 878 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,719 Speaker 1: after two years of maturity. They won't return on their 879 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,759 Speaker 1: first migration back to Europe until after their second year, 880 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,320 Speaker 1: so they may well not land at all, not once, 881 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 1: not even to us. That makes me tired just thinking 882 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,319 Speaker 1: of it. But for them, yeah, but for them it's 883 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: not you know. They we think of needing to sleep 884 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 1: as you lie down on a bed or you sit down. 885 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 1: But birds have the spectacular adaptation where they can sleep 886 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 1: on the wing. They can shut they can shut down 887 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 1: sort of one hemisphere of their brain, one one field 888 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,320 Speaker 1: of vision, and they will often readjust in terms of birds, 889 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,279 Speaker 1: that flying fox, they'll readjust their position so that I 890 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: that is attached to the awake part of the brain 891 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 1: is facing out. It's boggles our minds, I think, because 892 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,879 Speaker 1: we have a particular idea of what rest is and 893 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: what it would take to feel rested. But there is 894 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:53,359 Speaker 1: no As long as the um laws of physics are 895 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: being obeyed in terms of energy conversion, it's fine. So 896 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,520 Speaker 1: so yeah, a bird can you know, keep going as 897 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: long as it's getting adequate energy in and you know, 898 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily need the same kind of sleep and 899 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: rest that a human needs. And swifts are supremely well 900 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: adapted to an aerial life. The shape of their body, 901 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 1: the aerodynamic torpedo shape of their body, and the long wings, 902 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: everything about them is the maximum aerial efficiency. So you 903 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: mentioned they were struggling a little bit though in in Brighton, 904 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,600 Speaker 1: and uh, you know what, what is they seem so 905 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: amazingly well adept for their lifestyle. What is threatening them? 906 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting, And they're a bird that is very closely 907 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,719 Speaker 1: tied with humans, with our developments and our settlement over 908 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,360 Speaker 1: the centuries, and Swifts probably benefited from the development of 909 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: towns and cities over over hundreds thousands of years, and 910 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: they've they've nested alongside people in towers and castles and churches. 911 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: But for eons um before that, they were almost certainly 912 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: cliff nest as they've nest on ledgers of other vertical services, quarries, 913 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 1: sea cliffs and so on. Um. But now, I mean 914 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: you're lucky where you literally say, you've got lots of 915 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: wonderful old buildings, which is fantastic, um. Not just to 916 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,439 Speaker 1: look at that that kind of architecture is is full 917 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: of niches and crevices, because that's what Swift's need. They 918 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,320 Speaker 1: need us a little slot into which they can slide 919 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,480 Speaker 1: and they rear they're young inside there normally two chicks 920 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: and then up they come. Modern housing developments, modern architecture, 921 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: modern planning regulations are in this country, in Britain and 922 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 1: are depriving swifts of those cavities. Um so that's one thing. 923 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: They're just not finding the less spaces than they need. 924 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:52,080 Speaker 1: Another thing, of course, is that there are fewer insects around. 925 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: You know, we are dousing our countryside with chemicals and 926 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,239 Speaker 1: pesticides and damaging habitats and so on. So swifts, like 927 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,759 Speaker 1: so many others, are not finding the kind of food 928 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,839 Speaker 1: supplies they once relied upon. It. It's almost certainly the case, 929 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,960 Speaker 1: but there are there's kind of conservations are on the 930 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,680 Speaker 1: case in Britain. People swifts have a presence and people 931 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: feel their absence, you know, and they and there are 932 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,720 Speaker 1: a lot of groups now dedicated to trying to protect 933 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 1: swift and there are things that can be done. You 934 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,800 Speaker 1: can now buy swift bricks so with when when houses 935 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,839 Speaker 1: are being designed, modern housing is being built, you can 936 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,400 Speaker 1: incorporate into the structure up near that the eve the 937 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: roof swift brick, which is like a kind of breeze 938 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: block with a hole in it, which is not going 939 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,880 Speaker 1: to leak into your house, but it gives a little 940 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: space exactly exactly, So you know they are declining, but 941 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 1: we're on the case. Yeah, now that's wonderful. I think 942 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: it is so important to when we discover something like 943 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: oh o, our building design is harming an animal or 944 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,640 Speaker 1: harming a bird, you know, to not despair, but think, Okay, 945 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 1: we can figure this out. We have been able to 946 00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,359 Speaker 1: coexist with swifts, and fact swifts have somewhat benefited from 947 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 1: the a variety of different architectures, so we can figure 948 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: out a way to bring back that positive relationship. And 949 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,560 Speaker 1: I think that in general as well. I think in 950 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,879 Speaker 1: terms of building design, there is a lot to think 951 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,880 Speaker 1: about in terms of birds. I know, I've read a 952 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,960 Speaker 1: few papers on how to design windows in buildings, so 953 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: it's not a death trap for birds. There's there's a 954 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of just unconscious things that we do. Like if 955 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: you have a big building with these big reflective windows, 956 00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 1: it's going to become a bird killer because birds, you know, 957 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,279 Speaker 1: they don't see a building like that and think, oh, 958 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,840 Speaker 1: a building. They will often use sort of different types 959 00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: of visual cues to figure out how to move through space. 960 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: Because a bird can very skillfully move through the branches 961 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,960 Speaker 1: of a tree as they're flying, but if they see 962 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 1: a big reflective surface, a big they're not it's not 963 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,319 Speaker 1: going to compute as this is a solid object. And 964 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: so if we we have to be able to basically 965 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,000 Speaker 1: first understand things from the bird's perspective, understand how their 966 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,440 Speaker 1: vision and of object avoidance works, and then work from 967 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,360 Speaker 1: that to design buildings that are not not a not 968 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,600 Speaker 1: a hazard not so that they can actually see it, 969 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,719 Speaker 1: make these things that were invisible to them visible so 970 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: they don't hit and hit it. And so I think 971 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: that it's wonderful too with the designing buildings that have 972 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,839 Speaker 1: little areas for swift to have their homes. I mean, 973 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 1: who what doesn't want to help foster some birds in 974 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 1: your own backyard? Well yeah, I couldn't agree more. And 975 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,400 Speaker 1: it's important, especially since there are now normal ways the 976 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:57,919 Speaker 1: plants seem to be devising to exclude birds. Um there 977 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,440 Speaker 1: was a great scandal in this country a couple of 978 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: years ago when the practice of covering hedgerows in um 979 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,919 Speaker 1: plastic sheeting in spring arose because it would prevent birds 980 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 1: from nesting if there's if there are nesting birds in 981 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,640 Speaker 1: a hedgerow, you can't cut it down for development. You know, 982 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,480 Speaker 1: there's a protection order on it. But if you if 983 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:22,240 Speaker 1: you wrap it in plastics. But that's essentially there's a 984 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,120 Speaker 1: chance it's horrific. But those are the sort of practices 985 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,280 Speaker 1: that we're dealing with all the time. Um. So yeah, 986 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,320 Speaker 1: let's design. Let's design homes for birds too. Yeah. Absolutely. 987 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: So before we go, we need to play a game 988 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,440 Speaker 1: called Guess Who's Squawking? It's the Mystery Animal sound game. 989 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,800 Speaker 1: Every week I play a mystery animal sound and you, 990 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,680 Speaker 1: the listener guests who is squawking? Now, I say squawking, 991 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,360 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to be a bird, it can 992 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,440 Speaker 1: be any animal in the world. Uh. And so last 993 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: week the hint I gave was is this an okay 994 00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:17,360 Speaker 1: echo or maybe a blank blank? I love? I love 995 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,920 Speaker 1: this call. It's I just love this sort of it, 996 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,960 Speaker 1: almost seeming to run out of enthusiasm towards the end, 997 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 1: going m So, Mike, do you have any guesses as 998 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:36,400 Speaker 1: to what this is? You know, what? Can I claim 999 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:43,760 Speaker 1: diplomatic immunity or something? Of course, I do not know 1000 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: what that bird is. I was hoping it would be. Well, 1001 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,840 Speaker 1: it's not. It's not necessarily a bird. So this is 1002 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,360 Speaker 1: This is where I'm it's not necessarily okay, Well, do 1003 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:55,640 Speaker 1: you want me to tell you what I do? Want 1004 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,120 Speaker 1: me to narrow it down. My thinking, which may be 1005 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 1: completely inaccurate, is a it is a bit, it be 1006 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:08,000 Speaker 1: it's nothing. It's tropical. It's not. We hear those insects 1007 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,080 Speaker 1: in the background. If it was African, I think I 1008 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 1: would know it. And it's not European, so I think 1009 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 1: it's some kind of South America Asia. It's a large bird. 1010 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,920 Speaker 1: This is I've ruled it down to about five thousands. 1011 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,919 Speaker 1: I'm getting I can't. I can't get any further than that. 1012 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, you are correct in the 1013 00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,360 Speaker 1: terms of the location. It is in a tropical area. 1014 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,720 Speaker 1: It is found in Asia. You aren't quite right on 1015 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: the type of animal that it is. So it is 1016 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:51,280 Speaker 1: not it is not a bird. It sounds it sounds 1017 00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: very birdlike. Though. This is a horrible trap i'veset. So 1018 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,160 Speaker 1: congratulations to Joey P. Sarah in C and saggy E 1019 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:08,520 Speaker 1: who guessed correctly. It is a tokay gecko. Okay, okay, 1020 01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,680 Speaker 1: it's it's quite a deep I know, I've never heard them. 1021 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,240 Speaker 1: It's quite a deep one. Yes, it's a big deep, 1022 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,240 Speaker 1: fantastic And I had something bigger further away, but it 1023 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,880 Speaker 1: was something smaller close, Yes, exactly, so a little a 1024 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: little bit tricky. Yeah, these are they're tokay. Geckos are 1025 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,800 Speaker 1: quite large for a gecko. Uh yeah, yes, yes, they're 1026 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:36,520 Speaker 1: They're beautiful. They're this kind of like bluish green with 1027 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,520 Speaker 1: orange and brown modeled spots. They live in the trees 1028 01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:46,200 Speaker 1: of the rainforests of Asia and the Pacific Islands. Um. 1029 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:51,000 Speaker 1: That is the male's mating call. Actually, during the Vietnam War, 1030 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,240 Speaker 1: U S soldiers called it the f you lizard, thinking 1031 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: it's call sounded like the gecko was telling them to 1032 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:05,840 Speaker 1: f f you like h And yeah, it's actually become 1033 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 1: somewhat popular in the pet trade. But my warning would 1034 01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,800 Speaker 1: be that it really is more of an f you 1035 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: gecko because it has a very powerful bite and it's 1036 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,439 Speaker 1: very aggressive and very territorial, so it doesn't necessarily want 1037 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,800 Speaker 1: to be a pet. It will buy you. Do you 1038 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,200 Speaker 1: know the barking gecko from yes, Southern Africa. Yeah, I'm 1039 01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:35,280 Speaker 1: sure you do. Yeah, And that's something wonderful matches. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1040 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:39,640 Speaker 1: it's wonderful. I I just I love Yes, Yeah, they're 1041 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,880 Speaker 1: they're wonderful, wonderful little geckos. Maybe not the friendliest little 1042 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,360 Speaker 1: little guys and and maybe somewhat deserving of that name, 1043 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: the fu geck instead of the Tokay gecko. Um, so 1044 01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:58,439 Speaker 1: I thought for this week's mystery animals. Sound Now, Mike, 1045 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,520 Speaker 1: you did say that you may be able to produce 1046 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a mystery call potentially. M hmm, yeah, I can do that. Um, 1047 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,760 Speaker 1: what I'll tell you is that it's not a gecko. 1048 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,960 Speaker 1: That everything else is still on the cards, all right, 1049 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 1: on the table. Let's see if I can do this. 1050 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: Probably not. I talk a big game, but okay, I'll 1051 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,840 Speaker 1: give you this will be the sound of one of 1052 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,200 Speaker 1: the eight birds in my book. That widlds it down 1053 01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,000 Speaker 1: to eight. Yeah, this is the call of one of 1054 01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,120 Speaker 1: the birds in my book. All right, let's see which. 1055 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: Of course, it's a suckle plugs again in the book. Right, 1056 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 1: you have to you have to read the book to 1057 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,480 Speaker 1: find out to the yeah, or at least find the 1058 01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: content pace. Yeah, let me try this. It's been a while. 1059 01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:12,320 Speaker 1: It goes like this, it goes oh oh, man, that's good. 1060 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:28,920 Speaker 1: That's really good. Okay, can I again, Yeah, dude again, Okay, 1061 01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: let me, let me, let me, Yes, that's getting because 1062 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,280 Speaker 1: my voice is going. Now. Oh I want to I 1063 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,080 Speaker 1: want to guess is it now? It might be cheating 1064 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,360 Speaker 1: And I will cut this out if I get it right, 1065 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 1: because I don't want to spoil it for people because 1066 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: I have I have read the book. Is it the 1067 01:03:53,400 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 1: that's unbelievable. You've got big prize. Yes, oh my god, well, 1068 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:07,400 Speaker 1: I because it's based but listen, it's based on your 1069 01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,920 Speaker 1: description in the book. So really, really it's because of you. 1070 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember what the Because it's the national bird 1071 01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:23,320 Speaker 1: of Swartini in Swartini, so I know the bird very well. Um, 1072 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,520 Speaker 1: it's the one where Swartina used to be called Swaziland. 1073 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,320 Speaker 1: It's everybody royalty is denoted by wearing the crimson primary 1074 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: feathers of this in your hair and and you hear 1075 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:40,560 Speaker 1: the bird in river and forest and oh what was 1076 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,040 Speaker 1: I going to say? Yeah? It's also the fact I 1077 01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,800 Speaker 1: can't whistle, So it's real. It's a real, a real 1078 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,320 Speaker 1: handicap being a birder who can't whistle. Because you're trying 1079 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,120 Speaker 1: to demonstrate bird song to people and you can't swer, 1080 01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,000 Speaker 1: so you you compensated by developing all the kind of 1081 01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,440 Speaker 1: raucous guttural shouty ones which are the best ones. Yeah. 1082 01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,960 Speaker 1: And the the it's called in Switzerland or Swatini, it's 1083 01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:06,640 Speaker 1: called Liguala guala. That's the that's the local, the Swazi name, 1084 01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,040 Speaker 1: and the Zudo names Alguala guala. Wow. Yeah, that's you've 1085 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 1: you've you've astonished me that I'm going to have to 1086 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,480 Speaker 1: go and learn the rest of them and try and 1087 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,520 Speaker 1: catch you out with something next time. I'm sure I 1088 01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,360 Speaker 1: will probably fail at that, but it is It is 1089 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,800 Speaker 1: a credit to your bird call, isn't it? Because I 1090 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,040 Speaker 1: would not have guessed it if it was not a 1091 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,520 Speaker 1: good bird. Well, thank you very much, thank you very much. Well, 1092 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. And where 1093 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,600 Speaker 1: can people get around the world in eighty Birds? Where 1094 01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:39,000 Speaker 1: can they get it? They can get it from its 1095 01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,520 Speaker 1: published in June um so it's published next month and 1096 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 1: they can get it from any bookshop or they can 1097 01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 1: get it online. It's from the publisher is Lawrence King, 1098 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,640 Speaker 1: which is part of a Ryan Books that it's published 1099 01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,840 Speaker 1: by Lawrence King. I highly recommend it. It reminds me 1100 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,920 Speaker 1: of the books that like inspired my interest in animal 1101 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:05,439 Speaker 1: because it it has these um wonderful illustrations as well. 1102 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,480 Speaker 1: Should have said that have fantastic And yes, he's brought 1103 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,040 Speaker 1: he's brought the book to life, and he's also conveyed 1104 01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,720 Speaker 1: the way in which birds, I think decorate our world magnificence. Yes. 1105 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,400 Speaker 1: In addition the amazing descriptions of these birds, it gives 1106 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,320 Speaker 1: you just a real, a wonderful sense of each of them, 1107 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,200 Speaker 1: like a little uh, like a snapshot of what these 1108 01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:37,080 Speaker 1: birds are. But it's so complete and also gives you 1109 01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,920 Speaker 1: the sense of their the greater context of these birds 1110 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,800 Speaker 1: in terms of their environment and also in terms of 1111 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,440 Speaker 1: human culture. So it's wonderful, highly recommended. It's a beautiful 1112 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,840 Speaker 1: book both visually and in the writing. So yes, do 1113 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:56,800 Speaker 1: you check that out? And you can find me online 1114 01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,680 Speaker 1: at Creature feature Pod on Instagram, at creature fak plot 1115 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter. That's f a t uh not fp et. 1116 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,240 Speaker 1: That is something very different and if you thank you 1117 01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:15,200 Speaker 1: know what the mystery sound that Mike produced that amazing 1118 01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,920 Speaker 1: bird call uh. You can write to me at Creature 1119 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,280 Speaker 1: Feature Pod at gmail dot com as well as any 1120 01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,280 Speaker 1: questions you have about animals. Uh and yeah, Thank you 1121 01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:28,640 Speaker 1: so much for listening, and thanks to the Space Classics 1122 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,760 Speaker 1: for their super awesome song Exo Lumina Creature features of 1123 01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the 1124 01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,520 Speaker 1: one you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app 1125 01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:39,919 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or Hey, guess what for? Have you listen 1126 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,480 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.