Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of
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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning,
Speaker 3: and welcome to Counterpoints. Emily. How you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm good, We're matching. We have a matching color scheme too.
Speaker 3: Look at that. It wasn't even intentional. You're welcome everyone, excellent,
Speaker 3: great work.
Speaker 5: By the way, we've got Breakingpoints dot com to go
Speaker 5: to your get your premium, premium subscription, whatever you want
Speaker 5: to call it. Support this, support this show. Yesterday I
Speaker 5: did an AMA with Sager. People were asking about the
Speaker 5: Friday Show because of the election and everything.
Speaker 3: We're still doing the Friday Show.
Speaker 5: We did not kind of fold it up because of
Speaker 5: the travel, the convention's coming up in the election, We're
Speaker 5: not going to do the exact same format where we have,
Speaker 5: you know, those kind of long form debates for the.
Speaker 3: Next we'll do a few of those.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then after the election, I think we'll go
Speaker 5: back to that kind of format.
Speaker 4: We're recalibrating based on the insane news cycle.
Speaker 3: It's it's crazy. It won't love it. We love it,
Speaker 3: though we love it.
Speaker 4: We hope you love it. But it's just been insane.
Speaker 4: There's no way to, you know, schedule something for a
Speaker 4: Friday that is like a shelf life.
Speaker 3: Is two days long, right, But you love to see it,
Speaker 3: you really love to see it.
Speaker 5: You love to see Yesterday I filled in for Crystal
Speaker 5: on the day that Tim Wallas was announced as the Pick.
Speaker 3: Saga seemed down.
Speaker 5: The vibes are down from this side of the desk,
Speaker 5: but so curious how how you respond to the kind
Speaker 5: of the joyful Walls Pick where he's at once uniting
Speaker 5: the country but uniting them behind bullying.
Speaker 3: Jd Vance that's pretty funny.
Speaker 4: I got you. Our our favorite friends at the Trotsky
Speaker 4: World Socialist website sent a great headline this morning next
Speaker 4: to a couple of other ones like got people right
Speaker 4: wing you know panic about Tim Walls. They send out
Speaker 4: from World Socialist website. Kamala Harris picks right wing governors.
Speaker 3: That you love to see it for the trotsky Is.
Speaker 3: It's a right wing party, so you love to see it.
Speaker 3: You're gonna do.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 5: It's Corey Bush lost her election last night. We're going
Speaker 5: to talk about that in a little bit. What else
Speaker 5: we got.
Speaker 4: We've got Corey Bush, We've got a panel, a really
Speaker 4: good panel that's going.
Speaker 3: To talk to you and Will Chamberlain going to debate
Speaker 3: the Walls pick.
Speaker 4: We're going to debate the Walls pick. There's a lot
Speaker 4: to talk about. Like you mentioned when we were talking
Speaker 4: about Corey Busch and Elon Musk is predicting a civil
Speaker 4: war in the UK.
Speaker 3: Of civil wars, but he's.
Speaker 4: Really predicting a civil war to the point where sometimes
Speaker 4: your predictions get to skirt the line of materializing.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he's in a back and forth with Keir Starmer.
Speaker 5: Yes, those riots continue unfold and basically anti immigrant riots
Speaker 5: continue unfold in the UK.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, It's it's actually a fairly interesting story. So
Speaker 4: we will get to that, but first let's start with
Speaker 4: the news of the day. The news. Everybody's talking about
Speaker 4: Tim Walls. Some people are still trying to figure out
Speaker 4: who Tim Walls is. But we've had like a day
Speaker 4: to get really acquainted with him. Ryan, You're reporting on
Speaker 4: Walls has gone back a while. You've at the intercept
Speaker 4: you guys were reporting on Tim Walls. There's a lot
Speaker 4: to say about him. The rally yesterday, Kamala Harris kind
Speaker 4: of got to formally introduce Walls to the country. Let's
Speaker 4: take a look at a one here. There they are
Speaker 4: just looking like Ryan, you mentioned this, he looks so
Speaker 4: much like a social studies You said, he looks so
Speaker 4: much like a football coach. And then I said, he
Speaker 4: looks so much like a social studies teacher who is
Speaker 4: also a football coach.
Speaker 5: A coach Walls, and he looks like the kind of
Speaker 5: coach you'd want to have, Like the not the mean coach,
Speaker 5: but the one who's a little tough but happy, joyful
Speaker 5: the whole time. Like I've seen a whole bunch of
Speaker 5: people saying, like, where the heck did they get this guy?
Speaker 5: He's so out of perfect central casting for a politician
Speaker 5: made in a lab.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 5: He's, you know, like you said, social studies teacher, military
Speaker 5: who becomes a coach whose team wins the state championship
Speaker 5: in a in a Midwestern state. He's military, but he's
Speaker 5: not uh not not really. He didn't go in as
Speaker 5: an officer, but he's not. And he went in as
Speaker 5: and his listed men. And they're like, if you're gonna
Speaker 5: make him in a labor how about a sergeant major, boom,
Speaker 5: sergeant major, give him an injury that he overcomes through
Speaker 5: the youth, you know, through his nationalized health care.
Speaker 3: Uh, make him a dog lover.
Speaker 5: How about a cat lover to throw that in two
Speaker 5: cute kids.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: And then as and and as a you know, driving
Speaker 5: driving him innivan, hunting, doing doing all the Americana stuff,
Speaker 5: but then also being uh culturally socially quite liberal and
Speaker 5: and and but then helping to enact a a sweeping
Speaker 5: kind of working class agenda, you know, the left wing
Speaker 5: working class agenda through the Minnesota legislature, but then also
Speaker 5: the left wing socialist and so it's it's going to
Speaker 5: be wild to see, you know, how that unfolds, because
Speaker 5: you know, Democrats couldn't kind of have a better mascot
Speaker 5: for I think their kind of politics.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's an interesting combination. We'll talk more about it.
Speaker 4: I'm sure this again, there's just a lot to say
Speaker 4: about how you can combine populous economics with or how
Speaker 4: you can sort of try politically to combine populist economics
Speaker 4: with either cultural conservatism or cultural progressivism. Here's a flavor
Speaker 4: of how the rally went. This is Kamala Harris, a
Speaker 4: mashup of sort of some of the things she had
Speaker 4: to say about what coach Walls.
Speaker 8: I guess as that Tim Walls will be ready on
Speaker 8: day one.
Speaker 4: In fact, in fact.
Speaker 8: When you compare his resume, said Trump's running mate.
Speaker 3: Well, well, well, some.
Speaker 8: Might say it's like it's like a matchup between the
Speaker 8: varsity team and the JV squad.
Speaker 9: JD Vance literally literally wrote the foreword for the Architect
Speaker 9: of the Project twenty twenty five agenda. Like all regular
Speaker 9: people I grew up with in the heartland. JD studied
Speaker 9: at Yale, had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires,
Speaker 9: and then wrote a bestseller trashing that community.
Speaker 3: Come on, that's not what Middle America is.
Speaker 9: And I gotta tell you, I can't wait to debate
Speaker 9: the guy, that is, if he's willing.
Speaker 6: To get off the couch and show up. So you
Speaker 6: see what I did.
Speaker 4: There's sort of like he's being played by Chris Farley.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's Tim.
Speaker 4: It's like a cross between Chris Farley and Rob Ford. Yeah,
Speaker 4: when he says, see what I did there and then
Speaker 4: makes that kind of grin to.
Speaker 5: The camera, and you know what, Rob Ford and Chris
Speaker 5: Farley having common people love him.
Speaker 3: That's true. No, that's not the only thing that's true.
Speaker 4: So we also have so that That was Tim Moll's
Speaker 4: comment Harris obviously in Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Well before they oda Shapiro. Yeah, let's talk.
Speaker 5: I'm curious for what your initial reaction was because the
Speaker 5: very end, everybody watching this show is probably actually, I
Speaker 5: don't know, we have a very broad cross section of
Speaker 5: viewers at this point.
Speaker 3: I was about to say that.
Speaker 5: Everybody watching this show is online enough that they got
Speaker 5: the couch reference.
Speaker 3: Yea, I think that's true.
Speaker 5: If you didn't go in the comments section, I'm curious
Speaker 5: and tell me if you didn't. It's funny to even
Speaker 5: try to explain the couch reference. So I'm not even
Speaker 5: going to.
Speaker 3: But it's an.
Speaker 5: Online meme's it's a way that the left has kind
Speaker 5: of been bullying jd Vance and he went there, but
Speaker 5: he did it with a big midwestern Minnesota and ice
Speaker 5: smile on his face, which is that people are like,
Speaker 5: that's not Minnesota and ice. It's like, no, that is
Speaker 5: Minnesota and ice. You tell me more, you know, the
Speaker 5: Midwestern nice more. But there's a there's a there's a
Speaker 5: sharpness to it as well.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know about that. I feel like there's a
Speaker 4: sharpness to Southern hospitality. None of the Southerners are going
Speaker 4: to get upset with me, whereas the Midwesterners.
Speaker 3: It's pretty genuine. But yeah, yeah, bless your heart.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but it's a way of saying f you, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: producer mac he can tell us more about the accuracy
Speaker 4: of that assessment. But yeah, the couch thing, I saw
Speaker 4: a lot of sort of centrists freaking out about last night.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw any of that on AX.
Speaker 3: It was very much.
Speaker 4: Some people were just like, this is a really bad sign, right,
Speaker 4: this is a unity ticket that is now you know,
Speaker 4: making couch jokes at JD Vance and you know, while
Speaker 4: they are up here claiming the mantle of happy, go
Speaker 4: lucky and unifying, which the media then granted them and said.
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of people were like this was
Speaker 4: the perfect note. They hit all the perfect notes, and
Speaker 4: then you know, at the same time he's making jokes
Speaker 4: about the couch. Some people were like, this is a
Speaker 4: sign that we have all sort of we're all now
Speaker 4: scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Speaker 3: It's just a meme. It's just a meme.
Speaker 4: It's a dumb meme. I don't even think it's a
Speaker 4: good meme.
Speaker 3: But it's just a meme. It's a fault because the
Speaker 3: AP did it. Is they strisanded it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the AP did a fact check that you can find,
Speaker 5: and then people and then retracted their fact check, which
Speaker 5: if they hadn't retracted the fact.
Speaker 3: Check, we might not be where we are today. Yet, yeah,
Speaker 3: we are right now.
Speaker 4: They were in Philadelphia, and everyone thought that meant it
Speaker 4: was going to be jos Shapiro. And now, of course
Speaker 4: Joshapiro didn't want the job. He did not want the job,
Speaker 4: it must be said. He was really on the fence
Speaker 4: about whether he should leave his very critical role with
Speaker 4: Pensylvania Vania governor. And I joke about that because it
Speaker 4: seemed to clearly be leaking from his camp that as
Speaker 4: soon as he realized the writing was on the wall,
Speaker 4: Kamala Harris was going to go with someone else. He
Speaker 4: started signaling counter signaling, maybe I don't want the job
Speaker 4: now in Philadelphia. Of course, even though you're not picking Joshapiro,
Speaker 4: you still kind of have to have Jos Shapiro speak
Speaker 4: otherwise it's weird. So here is Jos Shapiro doing his
Speaker 4: best Obama impression. And if you're listening to this, you
Speaker 4: should also note that he is not wearing a tie.
Speaker 4: Sager obviously can hear that, but if you don't have
Speaker 4: Sager's ability to just hear tielessness through audio, he's not
Speaker 4: wearing a tie, and he's doing his very best Obama impression.
Speaker 3: Obama used to tile at rallies.
Speaker 4: It's just across the board, a cringe Obama impression.
Speaker 3: Take a look.
Speaker 10: And I want you to know I am going to
Speaker 10: continue to pour my heart and soul into serving you
Speaker 10: every single day as your governor, and and I'm going
Speaker 10: to be working my tail off to make sure we
Speaker 10: make Kamala Harris and Tim Wallas the next leaders of
Speaker 10: the United States of America.
Speaker 5: That's right, Democrats of a certain age, John Ossoff does
Speaker 5: a good Obama.
Speaker 3: Buddha Judge was doing it for a while.
Speaker 5: I think he developed his own I guess he doesn't
Speaker 5: hit the stump. We'll see if he still has the
Speaker 5: Obama as he hits the stump for the reelection campaign
Speaker 5: or not re election with election campaign of Paris. We
Speaker 5: see him mostly on CNN and MSNBC and Fox, and
Speaker 5: that's he's his own kind of rhetorical dude there.
Speaker 3: But yeah, on the stump, he was very Obama.
Speaker 5: It's a and it's like a particular, like twenty twelve
Speaker 5: flavor of Obama.
Speaker 3: But I mean he's also a good speaker.
Speaker 5: And he's been pressed about this, Shapiro has and he said, look, yet,
Speaker 5: it's not a criticism. Obama is the greatest order Democratic
Speaker 5: parties had fifty years. So I'm proud to be compared
Speaker 5: to him. It's like, well, it's not exactly what people
Speaker 5: are saying.
Speaker 4: It's just way too close. It's so obvious. It's just
Speaker 4: the way he even is modifying his tone of voice.
Speaker 3: It's just two it's ridiculus. And the way that Obama
Speaker 3: would do it's like a single white female thing.
Speaker 5: Obama would do like the southern accent, and you'd always
Speaker 5: be like Obama, where's that coming from? And the y'all
Speaker 5: and the you grew up in Hawaii, Kansas, but Hawaii.
Speaker 4: When Hillary Clinton would do it, that was yes.
Speaker 5: But then for Josh Shapiro from sper in Philadelphia to
Speaker 5: be doing the southern accent that he's drawing from Obama,
Speaker 5: it's like, what are what are we doing here?
Speaker 3: What are we?
Speaker 5: Which is which helps to explain why Walls resonates with
Speaker 5: people because he as you can tell, he's not trying
Speaker 5: to be anybody else, right, or maybe he's trying to
Speaker 5: be an archetype of a football coach, but he's been
Speaker 5: doing that his whole life, and he just fits it
Speaker 5: so perfectly that you can tell he just feels comfortable
Speaker 5: in his skin up there.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: So actually that's a good point because one of the
Speaker 4: things we wanted to put up on the screen here
Speaker 4: is a five. This is Jackie Heinrich of Fox News, saying,
Speaker 4: two sources confirm on background. The deciding factor in the
Speaker 4: VP's choice was what Senator Fetterman said publicly, concerned Shapiro's
Speaker 4: own personal ambitions would cause him to upstage slash override Harris.
Speaker 4: The video Shapiro produced with Philly Mayor Schrell Parker's team
Speaker 4: solidified this sentiment. On Friday, and absolutely as that video leaked,
Speaker 4: everyone said, oh, it's a done deal, done in dusted,
Speaker 4: It's Shapiro Philadelphia, the video has been made. Here we go.
Speaker 4: And yet if we put the next element up on
Speaker 4: the screen, this is a five B. This is one
Speaker 4: of the leaks. I was referencing early that after Shapiro
Speaker 4: and Harris met on Sunday when she was doing her
Speaker 4: Apprentice interviews with the candidates, Shapiro then leaked that he
Speaker 4: called Harris's team and said he was quote struggling with
Speaker 4: this decision to leave his current job as governor of
Speaker 4: Pennsylvania in order to seek the vice presidency. So he
Speaker 4: got bad vibes and he made sure the press.
Speaker 3: New pulls, you know, pulling out of contention. Good move.
Speaker 5: Yes, And apparently when when coach was asked, when Coach
Speaker 5: Wallas was asked by Harris like what he wanted to
Speaker 5: do as vice president, he said, you know you you
Speaker 5: tell me, coach, You tell me, coach, like, just put.
Speaker 3: Me out on the field and I'll do what you
Speaker 3: need to do.
Speaker 5: Where Shapiro has ideas, can't have ideas, and Kamala Harris
Speaker 5: has been just you know, pushed around and given the
Speaker 5: worst trek of the Biden administration, as Biden was given
Speaker 5: the worst trek of the Obama administration. And so she
Speaker 5: wants this crap roll downhill and land on Walls. And
Speaker 5: he sounded like happy to take it. She's like, here
Speaker 5: we go, yeah, scout. He also said, according to I
Speaker 5: Think Politico, he's at the end of his career. Nothing left,
Speaker 5: fight for, no no, no personal ambitions. Yeah, he's sixty
Speaker 5: she's fifty nine. He'll be sixty eight in two terms.
Speaker 5: If by some miracle you can imagine Harris administration serving
Speaker 5: two terms, which is young.
Speaker 3: That's spring chicken, compared.
Speaker 4: To our current leadership class.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which he just joined. Absolutely.
Speaker 5: Now, the football coach life expectancy is like sixties.
Speaker 3: Jeez. That's so dark.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know what it is, but the
Speaker 5: heart attacks they get the football coaches.
Speaker 4: So morning, Joe, I think, reflected the sentiments yesterday that
Speaker 4: a lot of the Beltway was feeling when Walls was announced.
Speaker 4: You've got to take a look at this morning Joe
Speaker 4: meltdown again.
Speaker 3: It seems like it was this.
Speaker 4: If you wanted to take the temperature of the beltwegh yesterday,
Speaker 4: this segment did a good job of capturing what people
Speaker 4: felt here in Washington, DC after Shapiro was passed over.
Speaker 11: For Walls, Well, exactly, candidate has to make the decisions herself.
Speaker 11: And I will tell you the candidate I'm most comfortable
Speaker 11: with is a candidate that helps me win Pennsylvania in
Speaker 11: twenty twenty four. So let us help Jonathan lemere that
Speaker 11: those outside of Pittsburgh loves Tim Walls.
Speaker 6: So talk about Walls.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about how the decision not made, the road
Speaker 1: not take. And Josh Shapiro, a guy that has approval
Speaker 1: ratings in the sixties in Pennsylvania, the must win state
Speaker 1: for both campaigns, and also the one who was considered
Speaker 1: the front runner for a very long time. But then
Speaker 1: there was a backlash, and we heard backlash. There was
Speaker 1: a very public campaign against Josh Shapiro, and and and
Speaker 1: really ugly whisper campaign against Josh Shapiro. And and it's
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, uh, it's that's something that is now hanging
Speaker 1: over this.
Speaker 5: Can I make one point, and I don't want to
Speaker 5: tell Morning Joe how to do their job, but there
Speaker 5: was not actually a loud campaign against Josh Shapiro. There
Speaker 5: were people on Twitter against Josh Shapiro, but elected officials,
Speaker 5: people with power organizations like which of them came out
Speaker 5: against Josh Shapiro in the Democratic Coalition apparently.
Speaker 4: Behind the scenes reporting now says Nancy Pelosi and others,
Speaker 4: but not.
Speaker 5: In the Pelosi support of walls right. But what he's
Speaker 5: talking about is this a genocide, Josh, like the attacks
Speaker 5: on Shapiro over his Israel policy. And I'm questioning the
Speaker 5: premise that there was actually like a large scale national
Speaker 5: Now there were like this show, and people like us
Speaker 5: and others like raised concerns about it, like that's a thing,
Speaker 5: but nobody with the level of access to power like
Speaker 5: Mourning Joe said anything about Shapiro's Israel policy. In fact,
Speaker 5: the only reason I would say that it was a
Speaker 5: part of the national conversation was Mourning Joe and shows
Speaker 5: like Morning Joe, but very specifically Morning Joe when they
Speaker 5: would bring out John and Greenblatt from the ADL to
Speaker 5: police criticism that was being leveled at Shapiro like on Twitter,
Speaker 5: and for green Blat to say, this is all anti Semitism.
Speaker 5: This reflects the rot within the Democratic Party and how
Speaker 5: anti semitic everybody is. You know, they were elevating that
Speaker 5: conversation constantly, And what that signaled to the Harris campaign
Speaker 5: is that a choice of Shapiro would mean regular segments.
Speaker 3: On Mourning Joe particularly.
Speaker 5: But then also, you know the kind of left cable
Speaker 5: media more broadly highlighting mean tweets about Josh Shapiro and
Speaker 5: calling out anti Semitism in the Democratic Coalition and elevating
Speaker 5: it and saying that this is, this is something that
Speaker 5: needs to be rooted out from the Democratic or in
Speaker 5: creating an intramural contest that really is manufactured, like does
Speaker 5: not exist on the level that they're saying it exists.
Speaker 5: And so I think the Harris campaign was like, you know,
Speaker 5: we actually can avoid this entire Morning Joe driven fight.
Speaker 5: So I think they actually cost Shapiro far more than
Speaker 5: his critics on Twitter did.
Speaker 4: That's interesting because I actually that is a very interesting
Speaker 4: point because it's hard to know behind the scenes how
Speaker 4: seriously the hair campaign took the possibility. Obviously it was
Speaker 4: on the table. Obviously there were people in the sort
Speaker 4: of proverbial smoke field back rooms who were saying Josh
Speaker 4: Shapiro's having volunteered with the non combat you know, the IDF.
Speaker 5: And then with none of the people who are concerned
Speaker 5: about that are in those smoke field rooms.
Speaker 4: Well, but there are people in those smoke field rooms
Speaker 4: who know that there might be people who are concerned.
Speaker 3: About it who might win. We're scrolling Twitter.
Speaker 4: Right, No, I don't disagree with that. So to what
Speaker 4: degree that was for them a cynical calculation, you know,
Speaker 4: or part of what is obviously always going to be
Speaker 4: a cynical calculation, I think is an open question and
Speaker 4: a giant sort of variable here, because you're right, it's
Speaker 4: not as though ilhan Omar was making these decisions for
Speaker 4: the Kamala Harris campaign.
Speaker 5: I don't remember her saying. Did she say anything about Shapiro?
Speaker 3: I have no idea. I doubt it. I don't I
Speaker 3: don't think. I don't think she did so.
Speaker 4: And this is another thing I accidentally skipped over this element.
Speaker 4: But it's premised on this idea that Walts is obviously
Speaker 4: a worse candidate than Shapiro. Because you hear that in
Speaker 4: the morning, Joe freak out. And we're going to get
Speaker 4: to this in the GOP block too. But it's this premise,
Speaker 4: is that Walt's is inferior as a candidate. He doesn't
Speaker 4: carry the Pennsylvania votes, he's not from a swing state,
Speaker 4: and he's just kind of a goofy football coach.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: So why would you go with this goofy social studies
Speaker 4: football coach over the governor, the popular governor of a
Speaker 4: big swing state. But let's roll a three, because I
Speaker 4: think there is it's worth kind of comparing the political talents.
Speaker 4: We saw Shapiro's an Obama impression. Let's watch Tim Wallas
Speaker 4: in this video with Kamala Harris.
Speaker 12: Hi.
Speaker 4: This is Tim, It's Kamala Harris. Good morning, Governor, Good morning,
Speaker 4: Madam Vice President.
Speaker 13: Listen, I want you to do this with me. Let's
Speaker 13: let's do this together. Would you be my running mate
Speaker 13: and let's get this thing on the road.
Speaker 9: I would be honored, Madam Vice President, the joy that
Speaker 9: you're bringing back to the country, the enthusiasm that's out there.
Speaker 9: It'll be a privilege to take this with you across
Speaker 9: the country.
Speaker 13: Well, let me tell you I have just the most
Speaker 13: respect for you. I have really enjoyed our work together.
Speaker 13: You understand our country. You have dedicated yourself to our
Speaker 13: country in so many different and beautiful ways.
Speaker 12: And we're going to do this.
Speaker 13: We're gonna win, and we're going to unify our country
Speaker 13: and remind everyone that we are fighting for the future
Speaker 13: for everyone. So let's get out there and get this done.
Speaker 6: Okay, let's do it, do the work in front of us.
Speaker 3: Let's win this thing.
Speaker 4: That's right, all right.
Speaker 8: Buddy, I'll see you, so take care, thank you, Okay, bye.
Speaker 4: I don't know when we decided that we needed to
Speaker 4: film these videos. This is like when Sager and Crystal
Speaker 4: called us to do counterpoints.
Speaker 3: I should have been filming it.
Speaker 4: It's probably over text, but you can see how the
Speaker 4: phoniness of Josh Shapiro, who is very much like I
Speaker 4: don't mean this ideologically, but has the sort of Gavin Newsome.
Speaker 4: I'm pretending to be really good at talking to people,
Speaker 4: and I'm really good at pretending to be good at
Speaker 4: talking to people, so it's almost convincing that I'm good
Speaker 4: at talking to people. Type vibes truxtupposed with whatever we
Speaker 4: think about Tim Wallas, and we're going to get into
Speaker 4: that in a second. I'm sure we disagree on a
Speaker 4: lot of things about him, but he comes across as
Speaker 4: a much more normal human being, and so I don't
Speaker 4: know that that premise, which is that only anti Semitism
Speaker 4: or anti Israel cynicism would motivate Harris to pick Walls.
Speaker 3: I don't even think that premise is.
Speaker 5: Correct, right and right, because progressives got the idea that wait,
Speaker 5: it's actually possible they might pick Waltz, and so once
Speaker 5: that was clear, I think that also ratcheted up the
Speaker 5: attacks on Shapiro because you're it's a zero sum contest
Speaker 5: at that point. It becomes between these Walls and Shapiro.
Speaker 5: You've got to take out Shapiro if you want your
Speaker 5: gott to elevate.
Speaker 3: Right right.
Speaker 5: Anyway, the whole question of Antie Simmonsons around that I
Speaker 5: think is more complicated than it's being made out to be.
Speaker 3: We can save that for another time though.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we'll talk about that in the Goop block
Speaker 4: because we have a clip of Ben Shapiro that I
Speaker 4: think will open up part of that conversation because he
Speaker 4: addresses it in and he addressed it on his show
Speaker 4: yesterday as well. Now, if we put a seven up
Speaker 4: on the screen, this is a shout out to Kyle.
Speaker 4: He compiled a list, and you know there were a
Speaker 4: lot of lists bouncing around actually, because the LFG mentality
Speaker 4: of the Minnesota DFL folks, led by Tim Walls, has
Speaker 4: actually been an LFG agenda, that's the let's f and
Speaker 4: go agenda, which Ryan, you've followed very closely and you
Speaker 4: can tell us more about. But it has resulted in
Speaker 4: this insane list of bills and actions that Tim Walls
Speaker 4: has signed or spearheaded just in the last couple of
Speaker 4: years in Minnesota, and it's a very interesting collection of
Speaker 4: both cultural progressivism and economic populism that has left right appeal.
Speaker 4: So Rabamari wrote a piece in Compact immediately after Walls
Speaker 4: was nominated or was picked yesterday saying that Republicans can
Speaker 4: learn a lot from the economic populism of Tim Walls
Speaker 4: and supporting a lot of Tim Walls's sort of economic agenda.
Speaker 4: So that said, tell us Ryan a little bit about
Speaker 4: what the Minnesota DFL folks have been doing under Walls,
Speaker 4: because the reason he started to, I think rise to
Speaker 4: the top of the surface of the candidates is people
Speaker 4: looked at it and realized, holy smokes, yeah, what they've
Speaker 4: been doing in Minnesota is extremely impressive.
Speaker 5: I wonder if he rose in spite of that, because
Speaker 5: this is the kind of thing that would actually scare
Speaker 5: I think national Democrats, but calmed down. Yeah, Emily and
Speaker 5: I had talked months ago about doing a story about
Speaker 5: how several years ago Minnesota and Iowa are both swing states,
Speaker 5: both purple states, and to some degree Minnesota still is.
Speaker 5: In the twenty eighteen election, Minnesota went blue by just
Speaker 5: like a handful of votes and a trifecta as well
Speaker 5: walls as governor. Democrats took control of both houses. I
Speaker 5: think they took the House by like one seat. And
Speaker 5: you know, these these house races are decided by hundreds
Speaker 5: of votes, sometimes just dozens of votes. And on the
Speaker 5: other side of the border in Iowa, a state that
Speaker 5: had you know, recently had democratic governors, senators, etc.
Speaker 3: And would you know I did Obama win Iowa. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 5: That state went republican Republican trifecta, and they pushed through
Speaker 5: as aggressive a conservative agenda as they possibly could. But
Speaker 5: it's it's it's the kind of mirror version of Minnesota
Speaker 5: in the sense that it's very pro business, not the
Speaker 5: kind of vancy and Trumpian national populism economics. And then
Speaker 5: it was the you know, extremely conservative social stuff as well,
Speaker 5: and just across the border with just a few thousand votes,
Speaker 5: pushing the state blue. They pushed through and we can
Speaker 5: put if we could put up this Kyle tweet again.
Speaker 3: As he runs it down, universal free school meals.
Speaker 5: That's why you see the uh, that's why you see
Speaker 5: that picture of the kids hugging him, legal weed, carbon
Speaker 5: free electricity by twenty forty, tax rebates for the working
Speaker 5: class up to thirteen hundred dollars, twelve weeks paid family leave,
Speaker 5: twelve weeks paid sick leave, and then he so then
Speaker 5: he banned conversion theories and pro trans stuff, twelve weeks
Speaker 5: read gun and then he did gun stuff. Free public
Speaker 5: college for people making under eighty thousand dollars. Think like
Speaker 5: to me, like the ban on and forever chemicals is
Speaker 5: that's that's hard to get like political power behind because
Speaker 5: there's everybody supports it, but there's nobody pushing for it.
Speaker 4: Minnesota is a big people don't realize it is a
Speaker 4: big business state as well. Huge Minneapolis is a huge
Speaker 4: business hub. There are a lot of very corporate.
Speaker 5: Interests, corporations and warehouses, and increase in k through twelve
Speaker 5: funding and then a bunch of pro union stuff as well, uh,
Speaker 5: and there was a he vetoed a gig worker reform
Speaker 5: bill and then in staid he would compromise, come back
Speaker 5: with a compromised version because Uber and Lift and threaten
Speaker 5: to leave if it passed. And he did come back
Speaker 5: with a compromise version. So all of Normally, when a
Speaker 5: Democrat wins by a couple dozen votes, they reach across
Speaker 5: the aisle they say, you know, we can't, we can't
Speaker 5: govern as if we won a huge mandate, we have
Speaker 5: to you know, tread lightly here and basically be a
Speaker 5: center right party. They said, no, we believe our agenda
Speaker 5: is popular, believe that Republican agenda is unpopular.
Speaker 3: We're going to push ours through and we're going to
Speaker 3: run on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's like they basically haven't done that anywhere
Speaker 5: except maybe New York after all those DSA people took
Speaker 5: over the legislature.
Speaker 4: But even so, it's a completely different thing, and this
Speaker 4: is one of them.
Speaker 3: Doing in Minnesota is different than doing in New York.
Speaker 4: It's a conversation. Actually that's been very popular with the
Speaker 4: Jdvance types on the right because there's this I go
Speaker 4: back to this a lot. Ronald Reagan gave this famous
Speaker 4: speech where he talked about painting with not with pale pastors,
Speaker 4: but with bold colors. Bold colors, not pale pastals. And
Speaker 4: it's sort of a famous saying, but people now associate
Speaker 4: Reagan with squishy sort of neoliberalism, when in fact, the
Speaker 4: Reagan Revolution was very much a revolution. It was a
Speaker 4: war against the Centrists and the Republican Party that had
Speaker 4: you know, it was people hated Ronald Reagan and the
Speaker 4: Republican Party in DC. And his theory of the case
Speaker 4: was always that if you are an ideological conservative, you
Speaker 4: will be politically benefited by not trying to hide that
Speaker 4: so you can talk about it ideologically. Whether it's more
Speaker 4: honest and moral to go about that, but his theory
Speaker 4: was that it's more politically beneficial to just be honest
Speaker 4: about if you have bold beliefs. It's sort of the
Speaker 4: Barry Goldwater and Reagan was a Goldwater supporter. When he
Speaker 4: says extremism and defensive liberty is no vice, that is
Speaker 4: the theory, and I think that is true in many cases. Obviously,
Speaker 4: your elections, you know who your opponent is, all of
Speaker 4: those things depend. But Tim Walls is a version of
Speaker 4: that on the left, which is I believe these things,
Speaker 4: and I'm going to make Minnesota a trans refuge, as
Speaker 4: it was dubbed by the AP. Now, I think those
Speaker 4: policies that he's pushed through as they relate to children
Speaker 4: are awful and will not be well sold on the
Speaker 4: national stage. They will be a problem from the national stage.
Speaker 4: But I respect the hell out of him for being
Speaker 4: honest about the fact that he is a cultural progressive
Speaker 4: in a rural state that in northern Minnesota. Donald Trump
Speaker 4: did a rally in Duloof. I mean, that is crazy
Speaker 4: for Republicans to do rallies and draw thousands of people
Speaker 4: in a place like Duluth. It's just that it is
Speaker 4: a changing state, and I think Tim Watz is putting
Speaker 4: that theory to the test and Democrats for people like you, Ryan,
Speaker 4: who probably come down on that same theory of the
Speaker 4: case that I believe in and that I would hope
Speaker 4: that Republicans would follow. On the left, it's sort of
Speaker 4: like a validation. It's saying like, look, this guy is
Speaker 4: doing the damn thing right, we can do it too,
Speaker 4: Like you don't have to pretend that you are just
Speaker 4: like mister Joe Biden, who just gets along straightened. Joe
Speaker 4: gets along with everybody and you know, doesn't have any
Speaker 4: controversial ideas. You can say that you believe something that's unpopular.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I think the same way that Republicans had a
Speaker 5: hard time painting Joe Biden as a far lefty.
Speaker 3: I think they're going to struggle with Tim Walls and
Speaker 3: it's identitary.
Speaker 5: It's like sanitarianism, and it's but it's working in democrats
Speaker 5: favor because you're like, oh, this like old white guy,
Speaker 5: can't be a bad can be a flaming radical communist.
Speaker 5: Just like the effort to paint Joe Biden as that,
Speaker 5: And I know it like really frustrated Republicans that he
Speaker 5: could be basically lined up with Bernie Sanders on a
Speaker 5: lot of his domestic agenda while that he was getting
Speaker 5: through and it just it just wasn't landing on him
Speaker 5: because he's Scranton Joe whatever. And I think we'll see
Speaker 5: because Joe Biden had been in the public eye for
Speaker 5: fifty years and maybe that matters in a significant way
Speaker 5: more so than just his identity.
Speaker 3: It's like a normal looking white guy.
Speaker 5: But we're going to find out because they went and
Speaker 5: found this normal looking white guy and Republicans are already
Speaker 5: saying he's the most radical nut job ever. We'll talk
Speaker 5: about this in the next block, most radical nut job
Speaker 5: ever to walk the face of the earth. Like, we'll
Speaker 5: see if that works or not.
Speaker 4: And if people like you, so, if you're just a
Speaker 4: generally likable person, that's the same thing with Reagan. Reagan
Speaker 4: did have ideas that were unpopular and out of step
Speaker 4: with a lot of yeah, smiling, right, no, but that's
Speaker 4: exactly right. And so with Tim Walls, you can call
Speaker 4: him radical. And I think on certain cultural issues he
Speaker 4: is radical, and he would I mean people on the
Speaker 4: left would say, like, these are radical populist economic policies.
Speaker 4: You know, he probably wouldn't embrace that label. But just
Speaker 4: last week he was saying one persons socialism is another
Speaker 4: person's neighborliness. Like he hasn't sprinted in the opposite direction
Speaker 4: from any of this. Now, the electoral implications are fascinating, though,
Speaker 4: because all this depends on the coalition that you can
Speaker 4: put together. And Sager made a really good point about
Speaker 4: this on Twitter X yesterday book on Twitter. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: refuse to think of it as as X. But anyway,
Speaker 4: Sager said, his job is not to activate blue collar voters.
Speaker 4: In reference to Waltz, he said, it's to activate affluent
Speaker 4: white suburban liberals who like feeling he could appeal to
Speaker 4: blue collar voters, and Sager then clarified he didn't mean
Speaker 4: that in a bad way.
Speaker 3: He meant that.
Speaker 4: It was like, this is a successful pick. Who is
Speaker 4: They have said this is the goal, and it's not
Speaker 4: a dumb goal, and he's someone who can accomplish it.
Speaker 4: But let's watch the Steve Karnaki clip explaining how Walls
Speaker 4: did in different parts of Minnesota, because Minnesota is one
Speaker 4: of those states is very much coming apart right now,
Speaker 4: to borrow the famous phrase, between Minneapolis and some of
Speaker 4: those rural, especially northern parts. So here's Karnaki on how
Speaker 4: Walls is performed in different parts of the state.
Speaker 14: Now here's the key, because this county Democrats used to
Speaker 14: be much more competitive in Look at this. In twenty twelve,
Speaker 14: Barack Obama won forty three percent of the vote in
Speaker 14: this county. It was only a little bit more than
Speaker 14: ten points that he lost to Romney.
Speaker 6: By here.
Speaker 14: The floor fell out for Democrats here when Trump came
Speaker 14: along in that Clinton race in twenty sixteen and they
Speaker 14: haven't recovered it since. In that Walls performance here, it's
Speaker 14: a little less than Biden's number, it's more than Clinton's,
Speaker 14: and it's a far cry from what Obama was doing.
Speaker 14: And again I'm showing you one. This is a stand
Speaker 14: in for dozens of counties in Minnesota where you saw
Speaker 14: the same thing with large rural populations, blue collar white populations,
Speaker 14: where Obama and some of them he was winning. Others
Speaker 14: he was holding his own just a dozen years ago.
Speaker 14: This is where Democrats have lost grounds, and Walls in
Speaker 14: twenty twenty two he didn't gain any grounds that the
Speaker 14: Democrats had lost.
Speaker 3: He didn't do that here, he didn't do that in
Speaker 3: no other counties.
Speaker 6: Walls really owes his.
Speaker 14: Victory, that big margin, that margin he got eight points
Speaker 14: their statewide. He owes it to the Twin Cities area here,
Speaker 14: the area where Democrats in Minnesota and all these other
Speaker 14: states are already doing well. You know, look at his
Speaker 14: electoral history Tim Walls is in twenty twenty two, and
Speaker 14: the idea that he's got this automatic appeal with these
Speaker 14: small town areas in those three key battleground states, you
Speaker 14: don't see it in what he actually did on the
Speaker 14: ballot in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: So all that is to say, belt white pundits should
Speaker 4: be very very careful to assume that Walls being the
Speaker 4: governor of Minnesota means that he is reflexibly or categorically
Speaker 4: popular and easily sold and packaged throughout the rural Midwest,
Speaker 4: because his own electoral victory was heavily dependent on the
Speaker 4: most urban part of his state, which is Minneapolis, which
Speaker 4: is also.
Speaker 3: A booming metropolis.
Speaker 4: So that is a very very important, I think, piece
Speaker 4: of nuance in the big Tim Wall story.
Speaker 5: The only amendment I would have to that is that
Speaker 5: if Democrats can maintain Biden's share of the rural white
Speaker 5: vote basically white working class vote has brought more broadly,
Speaker 5: then they will win. And so that's the only that's
Speaker 5: the only caution on that on those stats is that Biden,
Speaker 5: you know, did better than Hillary Clinton, and that and
Speaker 5: that with Walls, you know, sticking close to Biden.
Speaker 3: That's rather than that. You could look at that two ways.
Speaker 5: One it would be like, oh, wow, he didn't outrun
Speaker 5: the national tickets, so therefore he doesn't actually appeal that well.
Speaker 5: But you could also say, well, Joe Biden actually outran
Speaker 5: the kind of normal Democrat that would have how a
Speaker 5: normal Democrat would have performed.
Speaker 3: Biden did better.
Speaker 5: Just because of his whole stick and also stuck with
Speaker 5: Biden in that direction. But nobody should be fooled and
Speaker 5: think that because he's got there's like a Harris Walls
Speaker 5: camo at, that they're going to win Royal America, or
Speaker 5: that they're going to even do that much better than
Speaker 5: an average Democrat because it's still Harris and Walls. But
Speaker 5: but I don't know, Yeah, it's a do no harm thing.
Speaker 5: He's not he's not hated in rural America in the
Speaker 5: way that kind of Hillary Clinton was so.
Speaker 4: And that Kamala Harris may come to be by the way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh well yeah, if she wins, it's going to
Speaker 5: be an interesting four years, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Will stick around for that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was in like rural Pennsylvania a couple of years ago,
Speaker 4: and the amount of like F Joe Biden's signs were
Speaker 4: surprising even to me, just like on total dirt back
Speaker 4: roads with bolt holes in them.
Speaker 3: Just f Joe by Oh yeah, what's wild.
Speaker 4: Yeah, not a lot of love for Democrats in a lot.
Speaker 3: Of those places. My uncle in Cookstown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5: We kept arguing with this guy who had a sign
Speaker 5: right at the front of town that said f Joe Biden.
Speaker 5: He's like, this makes us what you think whatever you
Speaker 5: want about Joe Biden. Can you have a like I
Speaker 5: don't like Joe Biden, I like I like Trump, rude
Speaker 5: Joe Biden, like anything like this makes us look so trashy,
Speaker 5: Like do you have any pride in this town?
Speaker 3: Come on? No answer is no.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the answer the answer was actually probably hell no.
Speaker 4: Let's move on to Republican reactions to the Walls pick,
Speaker 4: because there's a lot of interesting stuff to talk about
Speaker 4: in terms of how Republicans sort of decided to navigate.
Speaker 3: You have this this virural.
Speaker 4: Hunter, you have the Shapiro being passed up, and now
Speaker 4: there's reporting suggesting that Team Trump was intentionally coordinating to
Speaker 4: take down Shapiro as the pick governor, right, and they
Speaker 4: were sort of celebrating that the pick wasn't Shapiro and
Speaker 4: was instead Walls because they see Wallas a sort of
Speaker 4: weak and easy to attack and easier now to sort
Speaker 4: of staple his resume to Kamala Harris. So this is
Speaker 4: from Fox News right away yesterday after the pick was announced.
Speaker 15: Well, facts still matter, so let's look back at his record.
Speaker 15: Walts's first executive order as governor was to create a Diversity,
Speaker 15: Equity and Inclusion Council. He also supported open borders.
Speaker 3: He talks about this wall. I always say, let me
Speaker 3: know how hig it is.
Speaker 9: If it's twenty five feet, then I'll invest in the
Speaker 9: thirty foot ladder factory.
Speaker 3: And he pushed social don't ever shy away from mark
Speaker 3: progressive values.
Speaker 9: One person's socialism is another person's neighborliness.
Speaker 3: Just do the day on work.
Speaker 15: Oh wait, and there's more. He signed an executive order
Speaker 15: protecting gender affirming care or surgeries for miners in his state.
Speaker 15: And in twenty twenty, he was the governor of Minnesota
Speaker 15: during the George Floyd riots that burned part of Minneapolis
Speaker 15: to the ground. It was so bad that Waltz himself
Speaker 15: called out his own response.
Speaker 9: I got a call from a friend and a dedicated
Speaker 9: public servant, Senator torres Rey called in her district and
Speaker 9: it was on fire, and there weren't any police there.
Speaker 9: There weren't any firefighters, there was no social control, and
Speaker 9: her constituents were locked in their house wondering what.
Speaker 3: They were going to do.
Speaker 9: That is an abject failure that cannot happen if the
Speaker 9: issue was is that the state should have moved faster.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that is on me. All right.
Speaker 5: So they're at the throwing everything against the wall fase,
Speaker 5: what do you think would stick there?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean go to a bar in like outside
Speaker 4: du Luth and say you want to invest in a
Speaker 4: ladder factory to help people get over a border wall.
Speaker 4: See how that goes? Tim Walls.
Speaker 3: I mean there's a.
Speaker 5: Serious I think he's telling a joke that the wall
Speaker 5: is a joke because people can easily find ways around it,
Speaker 5: and you could you could talk, You could say, hey, look,
Speaker 5: the United Kingdom is having a massive immigration problem. They
Speaker 5: have a giant ocean around their country.
Speaker 3: Oh can't figure it out? I don't, Yeah, vote the wall.
Speaker 3: They have a huge moat and a channel.
Speaker 4: We can continue going on his immigration policies. Defending them
Speaker 4: in that proverble bar or that hypothetical bar outside the
Speaker 4: Luth would be hard. Whether it's driver's licenses, healthcare assistants,
Speaker 4: that's a really hard argument to make now. So to
Speaker 4: make that point, I think there is those lines of attack.
Speaker 4: I don't think vice presidents matter that much. I could
Speaker 4: see on the margins. Same way. On the margins, I
Speaker 4: could see you know, stapling jd Vance's you know, all
Speaker 4: his his public comments and stuff to Trump could be
Speaker 4: painful for them in the suburbs, especially with like affluent
Speaker 4: women who look at them and only creeped out by
Speaker 4: jd Vance saying different things. I could also see on
Speaker 4: the margins people being concerned that Waltz has said things
Speaker 4: like one person's socialism is another person's neighborliness, which.
Speaker 3: See that was on the White Dudes. It was on
Speaker 3: the White.
Speaker 4: Dudes for Harris called, which by the way, is not
Speaker 4: like that's a conversation that we could all have here.
Speaker 4: But when your governor freaks people out, and so I
Speaker 4: commend him for being honest about it.
Speaker 5: Is politically a way of saying it one personal another
Speaker 5: person's neighborliness.
Speaker 3: I think it is. But we're all in this together.
Speaker 5: We're all in this for our neighbors, unless their neighbors
Speaker 5: are as long as our neighbors aren't bothering us, will
Speaker 5: leave them alone.
Speaker 3: One hundred you know as well they need help, will
Speaker 3: help them out.
Speaker 5: If they're not bothering us, they're not going to criticize
Speaker 5: them agree completely.
Speaker 4: The label pulls so poorly that Republicans just a couple
Speaker 4: of years ago during the dun primary, we're salivating over
Speaker 4: the idea of a Bernie Sanders candidacy because they were
Speaker 4: just pulling the word socialism in the suburbs.
Speaker 3: And if that's why he's rebranding it to neighborliness.
Speaker 4: Right, but he said it in a way that makes
Speaker 4: it they can run that as an ad. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 5: It's as an ad.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's a.
Speaker 3: Please, it's a please. Run that as an ad.
Speaker 4: It's I think it's Politically it would be I think
Speaker 4: it would be wrong to say politically that does not
Speaker 4: add some vulnerabilities to the ticket. And now I don't
Speaker 4: think those are huge vulnerabilities. I do think they are vulnerabilities.
Speaker 4: I also think that his trans policies, in particular, because
Speaker 4: they were so specifically related to children, will be a
Speaker 4: problem on the campaign trail because the mood in the
Speaker 4: country has shifted on those issues significantly. So if Kamala
Speaker 4: Harris is asked to defend that over and over again,
Speaker 4: that will be tough for her.
Speaker 5: It's also at every VP can it was going to
Speaker 5: have some problems when Mark Kelly, his big problem was
Speaker 5: he was lousy on labor.
Speaker 3: And you know, at the.
Speaker 5: Intercept back when, back when he used to be at
Speaker 5: the Intercept, we're just trying to help Democrats out and
Speaker 5: we hammered Mark Kelly multiple times for refusing to sponsor
Speaker 5: the pro Act of Major Labor Reform.
Speaker 3: Uh and he didn't take our advice, didn't do it.
Speaker 5: And sorry, buddy, next time, listen to us, and maybe
Speaker 5: you'd be VP right now. Instead, you had Sean Fain
Speaker 5: out there saying that, you know, the one he really liked,
Speaker 5: The two he really liked actually were Basher and Walls
Speaker 5: and the U a W the most kind of resurgent
Speaker 5: labor union in the country right now.
Speaker 3: I think that really helped him and hurt Mark Kelly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Now on the on the on the point about the
Speaker 5: trans politics hurting Walls, I this is where the weird
Speaker 5: thing comes in because e and when so when you
Speaker 5: pull that question, then in general Americans are against like
Speaker 5: the surgeries for minors in general like it, but it's
Speaker 5: very complicated. If you call it gender affirming, it's But overall,
Speaker 5: I think people don't like that Republicans are making them
Speaker 5: think about it, and Republicans are the ones they're tagged
Speaker 5: with the weirdness for.
Speaker 4: Bringing it up.
Speaker 5: Like there was a tweet that I saw circulating yesterday
Speaker 5: where it's a liberal is saying like good luck, you know,
Speaker 5: painting this guy is a comedy and showing him like
Speaker 5: hunting with his like hunting dog.
Speaker 3: And I think with Stephen.
Speaker 5: Miller, Yeah, Steven Miller says he puts tampons in the
Speaker 5: boys room in high school, and it's like, okay, you're
Speaker 5: why are you.
Speaker 4: A grown man talking about tampon's.
Speaker 5: Stephen Miller is the one making me think about this,
Speaker 5: Like come on, I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, I see both sides of that one, because I
Speaker 4: do think it's like if you guys are selling this
Speaker 4: dude in a cameo hat, who's who's hunting? You know,
Speaker 4: just like a lot of my family as just your
Speaker 4: your average Minnesota And he did sign the bill that
Speaker 4: you know, mandated tampons in men's rooms.
Speaker 3: But my thinking on but you're saying that.
Speaker 4: When Republicans talk about children's tampons and also think about it,
Speaker 4: and you're like, shut up.
Speaker 5: Right exactly and also because like when I think about
Speaker 5: it's like, Okay, should tampons be in the boys room
Speaker 5: in middle school or high school? It's like, if they are,
Speaker 5: it's probably because some student like found that helpful to them,
Speaker 5: and I don't care, like put them, put them wherever.
Speaker 3: And also like the pro tip bring.
Speaker 5: Your own paths or tampons to school, like don't don't
Speaker 5: count on the school to have them in the bathroom.
Speaker 3: They're like when you need them, they're not going to
Speaker 3: be there.
Speaker 4: So why did right Field the need to dispense this advice?
Speaker 5: Because if somebody's watching this program and they're like, oh,
Speaker 5: I can just go to the bathroom either one, it
Speaker 5: is why people.
Speaker 4: Watch the show though. For the health advice from.
Speaker 3: Ryan Grimm, yes exactly. This is what mean for people.
Speaker 5: Don't you agree you wouldn't count on like school having
Speaker 5: pats or tampons.
Speaker 4: There are a lot of things I would just generally
Speaker 4: not come on schools for. That is one of them.
Speaker 4: So the Trump campaign's reaction was, I guess sort of
Speaker 4: as predicted. Here's what they said yesterday. Frank Lentz made
Speaker 4: a funny point, and I'm loath to say that, but
Speaker 4: here's Franklinz on AX. Interesting. This is B two. Interesting
Speaker 4: that Trump says Tim Walls will be the worst VP
Speaker 4: in history because it means that Kamala Harris is not.
Speaker 4: That's a Trump campaign email. Obviously, he'll Unleasha get through
Speaker 4: the spam filter. I don't know that it does. I
Speaker 4: guess it got through frank Lenz's. But this is an
Speaker 4: actual quote from it and all caps highlighted. He'll unleash
Speaker 4: hell on Earth and open our borders to the worst criminals.
Speaker 3: That's true. That's a good point.
Speaker 4: Maybe keep our borders open to the worst criminals. Imaginable
Speaker 4: green news scam. Trillions of dollars on fire, millions of
Speaker 4: dirty cash to buy the White House?
Speaker 3: That one I don't fully understand. The real killer.
Speaker 4: He's already pulled in quote millions in dirty cash to
Speaker 4: buy the White House. You're right, it does look like spam.
Speaker 5: Now Trump, wouldn't he support lighting the trillions of dollars
Speaker 5: on fire because that will reduce the money supply. It's
Speaker 5: a good point, and they think there's too much money
Speaker 5: supply in the economy. Have you concerned that would be
Speaker 5: quantitative tightening?
Speaker 4: You should respond to him on true social This is
Speaker 4: what you should be on true Social.
Speaker 5: No, if I can find his email in my inbox,
Speaker 5: I'll just reply to whoever whatever that inbox is.
Speaker 3: This is what he posted on true Social.
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom then pulled it, posted it to Twitter and said,
Speaker 4: oh he's scared.
Speaker 12: What are the.
Speaker 4: Chances that crooked Joe Biden the worst president in the
Speaker 4: history of the Yes, Who's US whose presidency was unconstitutionally
Speaker 4: stolen from him by Cambabla? Barack Hussein Obama, Crazy, Nancy Blowzis, Shifty,
Speaker 4: Adam ship cry and Chuck Schumer and others on the
Speaker 4: lunatic lock crashes the Democrat National Convention and tries to
Speaker 4: take back the nomination, beginning with challenging me to another debate.
Speaker 4: He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by
Speaker 4: hanging over the US presidency, a coup to the people
Speaker 4: in the world he most hates, and he wants it back. Now.
Speaker 4: The Kamabla thing has started to get some traction to.
Speaker 5: It's not great if you can't tell if it's a
Speaker 5: typo or an attempt at a nickname.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with Is it a real attempt? I
Speaker 3: think so. I think so because and is he.
Speaker 5: Basically calling there for a January sixth to restore Joe
Speaker 5: Biden to the nomination.
Speaker 4: Well, we know that there's a January sixth. There's a
Speaker 4: soft coup, there's a hard coup. There's a soft J six,
Speaker 4: there's a hard J six. Who knows what degree of
Speaker 4: J six.
Speaker 5: One thing Trump and Biden have in common, from Trump's perspectives,
Speaker 5: that their vice presidents both pulled coups on him, right, and.
Speaker 4: As Trump would be foolish not to remind us of this,
Speaker 4: but Tim Wallas also was on Cameronston I think think
Speaker 4: could hurt him shortly before Biden stepped down, right after
Speaker 4: the debate, saying that Biden was fit to lead. He's
Speaker 4: outside the White House saying that into a microphone to
Speaker 4: reporters that Biden was fit to lead and fit to
Speaker 4: be president for another four years. Basically so that can
Speaker 4: earn him as well.
Speaker 16: Now.
Speaker 4: Jd Vance has been hitting the trail hard. Dude has
Speaker 4: been everywhere. As you know, the idea was that Donald
Speaker 4: Trump was regretting the pick of jd Vance that he
Speaker 4: wanted to, you know, sort of turn down the volume
Speaker 4: on Vance. This is crisscrossing the country, right, now Here's
Speaker 4: what he had to say day about Walls.
Speaker 12: The reason I didn't say a whole lot about Tim Waltz.
Speaker 17: Is because the Democrats have showed a willingness to pull
Speaker 17: a little switcheroo on us. So I don't even know
Speaker 17: if we're actually going to get Tim Waltz out of
Speaker 17: this campaign. And I think that a lot of us
Speaker 17: are asking ourselves, well, it's not going to be official
Speaker 17: until the Democrats actually nominate him, I guess at their
Speaker 17: convention next week.
Speaker 6: So that's the first reason.
Speaker 17: The second reason is, look, Tim Waltz's record is a joke.
Speaker 17: He's been one of the most far left radicals in
Speaker 17: the entire United States government at any level. But I
Speaker 17: think that what Tim Waltz's selection says is that Kamala
Speaker 17: Harris has been the nee to the far left of party,
Speaker 17: which is what she always does. The only thing I'll
Speaker 17: say about Josh Shapiro is I genuinely there's some fans
Speaker 17: out here. I genuinely feel bad that for days, maybe
Speaker 17: even weeks, the guy actually had to run away from
Speaker 17: his Jewish heritage because of what the Democrats are saying
Speaker 17: about him. I think that's scandalous and disgraceful. Whatever you
Speaker 17: believe or just whatever you whatever disagreements on policy you
Speaker 17: have about somebody. The fact that that race, the vice
Speaker 17: presidential race on the Democratic side, became so focused on
Speaker 17: his ethnicity, I think is absolutely disgraceful.
Speaker 15: Do you think you have any similarities you can talk
Speaker 15: about a common ground that you.
Speaker 3: Share with laws?
Speaker 17: Well, look, I mean, yeah, we're we're white guys from
Speaker 17: the Midwest. I guess there are similarities there.
Speaker 4: I yes, yeah, What did you make of that?
Speaker 3: Why do you say chaos behind him?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 3: That was? That was my first sign behind him?
Speaker 5: The sign behind him in Yeah, like you got to
Speaker 5: think more about the signs you're gonna put behind somebody.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 5: It combined with that Trump tweet feels like real sour
Speaker 5: grapes from from Republicans about the fact that they're not
Speaker 5: getting to run against Joe Biden anymore. H And I
Speaker 5: get it, like I would much rather be running against
Speaker 5: Joe Biden. Like they were about to win Minnesota and
Speaker 5: New Mexico and Virginia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Minnesota, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were on their way to an absolutely historic landslide,
Speaker 5: a landslide so historic. Trump was like I'm gonna go
Speaker 5: with Don Junior's pick and Jadie Vance my vice president,
Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden And also I think
Speaker 5: that they're extremely frustrated by the fact that Harris has
Speaker 5: been running for president now for two weeks. It's not
Speaker 5: had a not done an interview, not at a press conference,
Speaker 5: and basically not rolled out any policies except to flip
Speaker 5: flop on Medicare for all. Basically everything she ran on,
Speaker 5: like anything that was progressive that she ran on in
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen. And I will say twenty nineteen because not
Speaker 5: twenty twenty, because she did not make it into twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: She dropped out before then. She has walked away from
Speaker 5: all of those things. She's found time to retreat from
Speaker 5: all those policies. But she does not put any affirmative
Speaker 5: policies out except she said she's going to make the
Speaker 5: Affordable Care Act better, which good. I'd like to see
Speaker 5: the Affordable Charact made better.
Speaker 4: I can't really mean anything with her because she raised Herump.
Speaker 5: Says that to take care for all the right but yeah,
Speaker 5: Trump also says he's going to make the Affordable Care
Speaker 5: Act better.
Speaker 3: He says that everyone will have coverage good.
Speaker 5: Great, if we can have a presidential campaign with both
Speaker 5: candidates competing for who's going to make the Affordable Care
Speaker 5: Act better, who's going to expand coverage more?
Speaker 3: Better? Great?
Speaker 5: So I think Republicans, tell me, if I'm right, are
Speaker 5: just extremely frustrated.
Speaker 12: Now.
Speaker 3: They're used to, like.
Speaker 5: The mainstream media kind of taking this ride, taking them
Speaker 5: for this ride, and then and then this. Now, it's
Speaker 5: interesting that the Trump campaign was so nervous about Shapiro,
Speaker 5: like that they felt like and.
Speaker 3: There was some pole.
Speaker 5: There was some analysis I saw that said that he
Speaker 5: would add about a point four percent margin to the
Speaker 5: Harris ticket in Pennsylvania, which sounds like not much, but
Speaker 5: in a very tight race, is actually a huge amount
Speaker 5: if you believe that it's statistically significant like that the
Speaker 5: race very likely will be decided maybe by that the town.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I mean, if you look at the tallies
Speaker 4: from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty in some of those states, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: and Michigan, they're so I was looking.
Speaker 3: Back at them the other day.
Speaker 4: There's razor thin margins in those days.
Speaker 5: So the Trump campaign seems happy that it wasn't Shapiro.
Speaker 3: But I wonder if they're a little bit.
Speaker 5: I think they expected worse Democrats than they're getting right now.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's true, and I think they also underestimated,
Speaker 4: In fact, I know they underestimated the degree to which
Speaker 4: Kamala Harris would be accepted with open arms by this
Speaker 4: sort of political establishment, from the media to the elite Democrats.
Speaker 3: The left didn't put up much of a peep, right.
Speaker 4: And you know, so I sent this to you guys yesterday.
Speaker 4: It was like Cynthia Nixon sipping like coconut water yesterday,
Speaker 4: Like that just has been that the all of the
Speaker 4: coup stuff has gone away. And that's what the Trump
Speaker 4: campaign really wanted to hammer home is like this was
Speaker 4: a soft coup. They have just totally thrown democracy out
Speaker 4: the window of the running on.
Speaker 3: That stuff is not sticking and it's nothing.
Speaker 5: It's like Trump saying this is a soft coup against
Speaker 5: a guy that I believe should resign.
Speaker 4: So it's like, I feel like that's not it's not sticking,
Speaker 4: partially because the media just fully moved on. It's not
Speaker 4: entirely untrue that basically what we saw happen, but an
Speaker 4: immediate decision after the debate, like everyone was It wasn't immediate.
Speaker 4: It took a couple of weeks, but it was immediately
Speaker 4: things started to fall into place, and this started to
Speaker 4: you know, it didn't happen for the primary for a reason,
Speaker 4: and then suddenly happened after the debate.
Speaker 3: So I get that.
Speaker 4: But I think people are frustrated by how big of
Speaker 4: a boost Kamala Harris has gotten from pop culture and media.
Speaker 4: I don't think they expected it. They should have expected it,
Speaker 4: I don't think they did. That said, the race is
Speaker 4: still basically tied. She is doing well in some new polls.
Speaker 4: But the Shapiro thing in particular, Let's roll this CoIP
Speaker 4: of Ben Shapiro, no relation, no relation, talking about how
Speaker 4: he ended up getting passed up and what he thinks
Speaker 4: that means.
Speaker 3: Roll B five.
Speaker 7: She has opened herself up wide to every attack on
Speaker 7: her radicalism by picking Tim Walls. See, there was another
Speaker 7: pick that was available, and everyone sort of expected that
Speaker 7: person to be picked. That person, of course, was the
Speaker 7: Pennsylvania governor, Josh Shapiro. Pennsylvania has eighteen electoral votes. Josh
Speaker 7: Shapiro has a sixty one percent approval rating in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 7: Very easy pick, super super simple pick. For Kamala Harris,
Speaker 7: and we know why she didn't pick Josh Shapiro, and
Speaker 7: the reason is because he's a Jew. Also adopted under
Speaker 7: tim Way walls as governorship background checks for private gun transfer,
Speaker 7: which of course means effectively a gun registry. DFL lawmakers
Speaker 7: also banned supposed conversion therapy for LGBTQ people, which is
Speaker 7: much more controversial than it sounds like. When they're talking
Speaker 7: about conversion therapy, they're no longer talking about the horrible
Speaker 7: old practice of taking teenagers who are gay and electroding
Speaker 7: them or something. They're talking about, you know, actual therapy
Speaker 7: for people struggling with their sexual identity. For example, he
Speaker 7: legalized recreational marijuana. He required a carbon free electric grid
Speaker 7: by twenty forty. Again, that is such insanity. That is
Speaker 7: not going to happen. That is not going to happen
Speaker 7: because the alternative sources of electricity like wind and solar
Speaker 7: are simply not up to the task of supplying electricity
Speaker 7: to an entire state. On the base in the middle
Speaker 7: of some of the coolest areas of the United States,
Speaker 7: adopted a new reading curriculum based on phonics and passed
Speaker 7: a massive two point five eight billion dollar capital construction package,
Speaker 7: So that is tax sikes, that is spending, that is
Speaker 7: him Walls in a nutshell.
Speaker 4: So again I don't think he's wrong that those bring
Speaker 4: vulnerabilities to the table and vulnerabilities that Josh Shapiro might
Speaker 4: not have had. But I don't agree with this promise
Speaker 4: that Walls does not also bring advantages to the ticket
Speaker 4: that Shapiro wouldn't bring to the ticket, and that Shapiro
Speaker 4: is just this sort of Gavin Newsom like playing I
Speaker 4: could play a politician on TV.
Speaker 5: Kamala is very much a seems like a politician. So
Speaker 5: two of those, Yeah, and against Trump, the anti politician
Speaker 5: is a tough race.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And Shapiro very much acknowledged Walls as a buncularness. He
Speaker 5: called it his affability, like his likability, Like I think
Speaker 5: it's the one thing that everybody is like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's likable guy.
Speaker 3: He seems cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's going to be because one of the
Speaker 4: reasons Kamala Harris reportedly was interested in Walls is that
Speaker 4: when he went on news Chris and I talked about
Speaker 4: this last week.
Speaker 3: And made that weird remark about JD.
Speaker 4: Vancid.
Speaker 3: These people are weird.
Speaker 4: That was impressive because coming from him, it seemed to
Speaker 4: stick that he had this. Now Republicans may, because of
Speaker 4: that sort of cultural progressivism, may actually have an ability.
Speaker 4: We'll see how well it sticks to paint him as weird. Again,
Speaker 4: we will see how well that politically sticks. But that
Speaker 4: coming from him is different than that coming from Joshapiro.
Speaker 4: I don't know that jos Shapiro could even pull that
Speaker 4: off because he just seems less regular. And when it
Speaker 4: sounds like a regular guy saying it, it's easier to
Speaker 4: make it stick.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 5: And the more that Stephen Miller goes on Fox News
Speaker 5: like ranting about tampon's tim walls and tampons and getting
Speaker 5: offended at the weird things, like you're not beating those charges, man,
Speaker 5: I don't think this is the guy you want to
Speaker 5: drag out to tell us that you're not weird.
Speaker 4: And again, yeah, I agree that all those things are vulnerabilities,
Speaker 4: but to what degree their vulnerabilities in this larger context
Speaker 4: of how much much a vice president will even matter?
Speaker 4: To your point, there are marginal reasons that these are
Speaker 4: important picks in places like Pennsylvania. So I don't disagree
Speaker 4: with that, either. But how much this conversation will be
Speaker 4: about Tim Walls and his various policies going forward is
Speaker 4: very much an open question. It depends on what Republicans
Speaker 4: decide to run on. Certainly this gives them something to
Speaker 4: work with, but voters are thinking about the people at
Speaker 4: the top of the ticket for the most part, So
Speaker 4: I don't know that this is going to be a
Speaker 4: huge part, even like when people are making up their
Speaker 4: minds about who to vote for in a place like Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: if your governor's on the ticket, that's different. Republicans probably
Speaker 4: were not going to win Minnesota even with Joe Biden
Speaker 4: at the top of the ticket.
Speaker 5: And so I'm next We're going to have two people
Speaker 5: debating this very question, Jenk yuger tyt host and Will Chamberlain.
Speaker 5: What do you describe my conservative attorney?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Conservative, I would say, a sort of new right conservative
Speaker 4: attorney and very much a pro Trump voice on the right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Jenk was taking a kind of counterintuitive contrarian Shapiro not
Speaker 5: necessarily pro Shapiro but anti anti Shapiro line.
Speaker 3: But is over the moon about the Tim Walls pick.
Speaker 5: Joining us now to discuss more on the Tim Walls
Speaker 5: VP selection. We've got Will Chamberlain, kind of a new
Speaker 5: rite conservative activist writer attained an attorney as well. And
Speaker 5: we've got Jenk Yuger, host of tyt's main show, Jenk
Speaker 5: Will thank.
Speaker 3: You so much for joining us. Thanks for having me
Speaker 3: and Jenks.
Speaker 5: Let's start with you, because talk to talk to us
Speaker 5: about how you were feeling during the kind of Veepsteaks competition,
Speaker 5: which interestingly was kind of what we had been proposing
Speaker 5: democrats do for their actual nomination, is to have this
Speaker 5: kind of an open process where it wasn't necessary going
Speaker 5: to lead to actual people voting, but by the general
Speaker 5: vibes of the country, somebody would emerge as an obvious favorite.
Speaker 3: And that that that seemed to happen here.
Speaker 5: Like it it was a participatory democratic process, even if
Speaker 5: nobody got to go and actually cast votes.
Speaker 3: So how did you.
Speaker 5: Feel about the kind of VP selection before you know,
Speaker 5: or or like you know, before the process kicked off,
Speaker 5: and how did you feel about it by the end
Speaker 5: of it?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I felt many different things.
Speaker 12: First of all, I felt, told you, second of all,
Speaker 12: apprehension and then at the end elation so told you
Speaker 12: as in, look at all these amazing Democratic candidates. This
Speaker 12: is why we thought that Biden should step aside, because
Speaker 12: the idea that Biden was the best that the Democrats
Speaker 12: had to offer was so preposterous at this late stage
Speaker 12: in his life.
Speaker 6: I'm like, how about the.
Speaker 12: Governor of Pennsylvania or Michigan, or Kentucky or apparently Minnesota.
Speaker 6: And it turned out when we looked into them, they
Speaker 6: were all fantastic.
Speaker 12: I told you, of course, there's a lot of great
Speaker 12: Democrats out there.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 12: The apprehension part was I was like, oh no, here
Speaker 12: we go again with the Democrats, with all these great
Speaker 12: candidates out there. If they picked like a Mark Kelly
Speaker 12: snoozefest because they think they already have this thing one,
Speaker 12: or even worse, the corporate lego man Pete Botagic, all
Speaker 12: this will have been for naught.
Speaker 6: And then I would have put them back as underdogs.
Speaker 6: But they didn't.
Speaker 12: They didn't, and at the NFL elation is I can't
Speaker 12: believe they made the best pick. I can't believe, and
Speaker 12: I can't believe that the last two were the best
Speaker 12: two Josh Shapiro and Tim Walls. So that couldn't have
Speaker 12: gotten any better.
Speaker 5: Well, let's start electorally, So just cynically, like setting aside
Speaker 5: what you think about the policies that this ticket is
Speaker 5: going to put forward electorally from your perspective on the right,
Speaker 5: how do you think this pick plays.
Speaker 4: Which, by the way, want to add is an important
Speaker 4: addition to what Jankis said, is that is Tim Walls
Speaker 4: a good candidate? To Ryan's point, is he a good
Speaker 4: candidate for Democrats? Or do his vulnerabilities as you see
Speaker 4: them outweigh the potential advantages that he brings to the ticket.
Speaker 16: I think among the Fanel finalists, he's the pick we're
Speaker 16: happiest to see a Republicans. We were worried about Jos Shapiro.
Speaker 16: We think that Jos Shapiro has massive favorability ratings and
Speaker 16: what's most likely to be the tipping point state if
Speaker 16: you saw him speak yesterday at that rally, he's a
Speaker 16: hell of an order, like just real talk.
Speaker 6: The guy can speak that.
Speaker 16: He made a pretty good joke too when people said
Speaker 16: he was compared to Barack Obama. He's like, well, Obama
Speaker 16: is a pretty good order, so I'm not upset about
Speaker 16: that comparison. So we were worried about Shapiro. Tim Waltz
Speaker 16: makes this a very simple election. It's make America great
Speaker 16: again versus make America burn again. They are going to
Speaker 16: have the Minneapolis riots hanging over their head the next
Speaker 16: three months. It's going to be an immigration and crime election.
Speaker 16: They're going to have to explain why Tim Walls decided
Speaker 16: to let riders one while while he twiddled his thumbs,
Speaker 16: and then why Camala Harris promoted a fund to bail
Speaker 16: those riders out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think? Jenk All?
Speaker 12: Right, First of all, let's all be amused by the
Speaker 12: idea of someone who definitely should not be running if
Speaker 12: they didn't call a National Guard soon enough and they
Speaker 12: just twiddled their thumbs while there.
Speaker 6: Was a riot happening like on January sixth. Awkward.
Speaker 12: Okay, so listen, it's hilarious that we have agreement here.
Speaker 12: He thinks Tim Wants is the best candidate for them.
Speaker 12: I think Tim WANs is the best candidate for us.
Speaker 12: The brother passed all these wonderful laws that are intensely popular,
Speaker 12: paid family leave you, free lunches for poor kids by
Speaker 12: the way, free college for lower income families so they
Speaker 12: can compete with the rich families, which Republicans are going
Speaker 12: to hate, and they did hate. They devoted against it,
Speaker 12: passed so many economically populist bills, and then just popular
Speaker 12: popular bills like legalizing marijuana and and all of these
Speaker 12: pull it over seventy percent. So if they're gonna run
Speaker 12: on Tim Wall's record, they're going to run straight into
Speaker 12: our iceberg.
Speaker 6: And I love it.
Speaker 12: Please make the case against the American people, how they
Speaker 12: shouldn't have paid family leave, they shouldn't have child tax credits,
Speaker 12: they shouldn't have abortion rights.
Speaker 6: Go for it, go for it. Make our day.
Speaker 12: By the way, don't get me wrong. I like Josh Shapiro.
Speaker 12: I favored Josh Shapiro. But this whole thing that they
Speaker 12: do after every pick is like, well, if you'd picked
Speaker 12: the other guy, that we would have been scared of
Speaker 12: that guy. But you pick this guy, we're thrilled. I'm
Speaker 12: seeing this two thousand times over.
Speaker 4: So will I imagine what was going through your head?
Speaker 4: And I don't want to put words in your mouth.
Speaker 4: But as jenk was talking about, some of these popular
Speaker 4: and sort of genuinely populist economic policies that the likes
Speaker 4: of Sarabamari and others even on the New Right, have
Speaker 4: looked at and said, there's some interesting stuff in here
Speaker 4: economically that would that is popular with voters, whether or
Speaker 4: and it's right or wrong, popular with voters at the
Speaker 4: very least. What was probably coming through your mind was
Speaker 4: some of the cultural policies that Waltz has passed, So
Speaker 4: that would be on LGBT issues, immigration issues, the way
Speaker 4: he's talked about both of those issues that create vulnerabilities
Speaker 4: for him. So is that something that as Republicans are
Speaker 4: looking at this, you think drags Waltz down, drags Kamala
Speaker 4: Harris down from now until November.
Speaker 16: Well, yeah, I mean it's not twenty twelve.
Speaker 6: Mitt Romney's not at the top of the ticket with
Speaker 6: Paul Ryan.
Speaker 16: We're not about to run on you know, cutting a
Speaker 16: title and spending or pending the cost curve or whatever.
Speaker 16: So this is a very different Republican party. You know,
Speaker 16: the head of the teams who spoke at the Republican Convention,
Speaker 16: We're not going to be running on child tax credits
Speaker 16: are bad. The real problem with Waltz, I think. I mean,
Speaker 16: first off, obviously immigration, Waltz has allowed for taxpayer money
Speaker 16: to go to paying for illegal immigrants college. That's something
Speaker 16: we're certainly going to run on. I mean, I'm generally
Speaker 16: of the view that tax American taxpayers money should benefit
Speaker 16: American citizens and not the object, not the opposite. He's
Speaker 16: got some very big issues on the trans stuff. It's
Speaker 16: not merely you know, like should do trans people exist?
Speaker 16: This is stuff like, you know, he's going to make
Speaker 16: it impossible for Red states to set laws that prohibit
Speaker 16: transgender surgeries on children.
Speaker 6: And you know, I like, as.
Speaker 16: Much as jenk wants to say this stuff is popular,
Speaker 16: this stuff is not popular. You know, Deacons of reactionary
Speaker 16: conservatism like England and Norway and Sweden have banned all
Speaker 16: these treatments. This is this is stuff that's not going
Speaker 16: to go well with the broader public. And then there's
Speaker 16: also the biggest issue, which I think with Waltz, which
Speaker 16: really hasn't been covered. He's an appointment dodger. He was
Speaker 16: in the National Guard. He was the leader of a unit,
Speaker 16: and the moment that the Iraq War, that his unit
Speaker 16: was about to deploy, he just said, sorry, guys, have
Speaker 16: fun and just left the mall go off to rock
Speaker 16: and three of them died.
Speaker 12: Okay, let me answer that. So the brother was in
Speaker 12: the National Guard for twenty seven years. He got at
Speaker 12: least three medals that I saw, and he enlisted. Is
Speaker 12: the highest enlisted ranked member of the Armed service that
Speaker 12: we serve in Congress, and.
Speaker 6: You're going to compare.
Speaker 12: Him to Commander bone Spurs, who ran from Vietnam and
Speaker 12: they asked him, Hey, your daddy wrote you a note
Speaker 12: about how you had bone spurs in your ankle. Which
Speaker 12: ankle was it? He's like, I don't maybe both, maybe both.
Speaker 12: Your guy's a total utter coward. He ran from Vietnam
Speaker 12: and then later bragged that his Vietnam was dodging STDs.
Speaker 6: At the Orgies he was going to.
Speaker 12: So you want to compare him to a guy who
Speaker 12: served for twenty seven years, have a a hoss.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll go right back at you on that.
Speaker 16: My guy's the guy who got shot in the face
Speaker 16: and got up screaming fight, fight, fight. Your guy at
Speaker 16: who's a forty seven year old man supervising teenagers, and
Speaker 16: you know, young men who are about to go to
Speaker 16: the war, leading them for years the moment they're about
Speaker 16: to deploy, walks off the job, total loser. Anybody's a
Speaker 16: coward in this race. It's Tim Walls you're nuts.
Speaker 12: So you're saying, actually defending the country is cowardly if
Speaker 12: you do it for decades on end, and you wouldn't.
Speaker 12: When did you defend the country one chance?
Speaker 6: He didn't do it. You don't get to talk over me. Sorry, okay,
Speaker 6: fair enough.
Speaker 12: And then and then wins the Nebraska Citizens Soldier of
Speaker 12: the Year. He wins every award there is. And then
Speaker 12: you go, well, no, you didn't serve thirty years. You
Speaker 12: didn't serve forty years. Your guys served zero years.
Speaker 4: Okay. So, jenk though, could you respond to what Will
Speaker 4: said about immigration trans issues causing vulnerabilities for Waltz? I
Speaker 4: mean it is true that as popular as some of
Speaker 4: those economic policies might be, those are way more front
Speaker 4: issues and Waltz, who's who really relied on Minneapolis to
Speaker 4: win his groupernatorial election. As Steve Karnaki pointed on MSNBC yesterday,
Speaker 4: those are tougher cells outside of Minneapolis on some of
Speaker 4: those big cultural issues.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I understand that.
Speaker 12: So again, though, I want to make sure that everybody
Speaker 12: understands that Donald Trump is a giant coward who ran
Speaker 12: for Vietnam and wanted poor people and middle class people
Speaker 12: to die on his behalf. But to be fair, his
Speaker 12: daddy's doctor note was really sterling well paid for.
Speaker 6: Okay. So now in terms of those issues.
Speaker 12: Look, it depends on how you ask the questions on immigration, transwrites, etc.
Speaker 6: And so if you say, oh.
Speaker 12: My god, the police department and the fire department in
Speaker 12: Minnesota are wrong. They shouldn't have driver's licenses, even though
Speaker 12: it would make the cops lives much much easier and
Speaker 12: identifying them and I can't believe that a nondocumented immigrant
Speaker 12: would ever get anything. They should be dealianized, and we
Speaker 12: should hate them, and we should pretend that they're evil. Okay,
Speaker 12: you can go that route. You could run a hate
Speaker 12: field campaign. And by the way, my resoname with some people.
Speaker 6: I get it. But we're going to come back and.
Speaker 12: Double down on how he helped the average American and
Speaker 12: his economic bills are overwhelmingly popular. In fact, ninety percent
Speaker 12: of the bills that he's passed are overwhelmingly popular. Here's
Speaker 12: a guy who is a teacher of football, coach and
Speaker 12: from the from the Midwest. I almost pulled a Trump said,
Speaker 12: from the Middle West, that's the thing that we say. Okay,
Speaker 12: so look compared to loser bankropt, a businessman and a
Speaker 12: vulture capitalist. I've added oss, Okay, tell us about how
Speaker 12: popular you guys are, and oh, we have the most
Speaker 12: popular billionaires in Wall Street.
Speaker 6: Tacoon's on our side. Go for it, okay, But I
Speaker 6: don't think those are going to play well at all.
Speaker 12: I think they're gonna get their asses handed to him.
Speaker 3: What's your response to that one, will Oh?
Speaker 16: I mean, I think like Tim Waltz is just goofy.
Speaker 16: That's another thing about him. He's really really I mean,
Speaker 16: think about Tim Waltz. Here's the other thing. The guy
Speaker 16: made a sex joke in his like announcement as VP,
Speaker 16: referencing this couch stuff. You know, it'd be one thing
Speaker 16: if he was just doing that on some podcast. He's
Speaker 16: doing it there on the speech where he's making himself known,
Speaker 16: and then he shakes his wife's hand. I don't know
Speaker 16: if if I shake my wife's hand, I got get slapped.
Speaker 16: The guy's ridiculous. And then I think also on the
Speaker 16: economic stuff, I mean, Minnesota is an economic basket case.
Speaker 16: It's actually relative in other states. It's gotten far worse
Speaker 16: than the past few years. People are fleeing the state
Speaker 16: to Florida, he's not actually done a good job of
Speaker 16: managing his state. And then the state's also become a
Speaker 16: high crime state because he's so inept on crime, as
Speaker 16: demonstrated in Minneapolis in twenty twenty.
Speaker 12: Okay, it's the fifth best state for business. So this
Speaker 12: whole thing of extreme liberal is absurd. It's the third
Speaker 12: happiest state. And then I love every point about Tim
Speaker 12: Wallas as it's as if they're talking about Donald Trump
Speaker 12: and don't realize it. That guy's really strange, says weird things.
Speaker 12: Can you believe he said inappropriate things? Really, a guy
Speaker 12: supporting Trump is going to tell us about how the
Speaker 12: other guy said inappropriate things. A big joke about a couch,
Speaker 12: that's what you're But you're not outraged that Trump was like, yeah,
Speaker 12: I grab him by the jigitis. You don't think that's weird,
Speaker 12: that's totally normal. And then oh my god, I can't
Speaker 12: believe he shook his wife's hand. Well that's better than Trump.
Speaker 12: Millennia won't even touch his him. So, I mean, everything
Speaker 12: you say about Tim Wallas is like steroids comically true
Speaker 12: of Donald Trump.
Speaker 16: I mean, context seems pretty obviously different. What you say
Speaker 16: in private versus what you say in a rally. I mean,
Speaker 16: ye are read Zoba.
Speaker 12: Yeah. I actually as a lot of people that sounds great. Yeah,
Speaker 12: that in private's way better.
Speaker 4: Can we stick on the question of Walls's economic record, actually,
Speaker 4: because Jane, can you flesh out that point about Uh,
Speaker 4: this is something I've started to see coming from people
Speaker 4: actually within Minnesota who have said, you know, Walts did
Speaker 4: pass these economic populist policies, but what he did with
Speaker 4: the money and the budget and all that you know
Speaker 4: is conservatives in Minnesota unsurprisingly will hammer Walls for having
Speaker 4: been bad on the economy. Your contention is that actually
Speaker 4: it's a benefit for him that he has the over
Speaker 4: the economy that he's overseen in Minneapolis or in Minnesota
Speaker 4: is a benefit for him on the campaign trail.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 12: So look, first I should also acknowledge that this sexual
Speaker 12: assault that Donald Trump was convicted of was in public
Speaker 12: he actually assaulted or in public?
Speaker 6: Yeah, he did in address, None of that, None of
Speaker 6: what you said is true. He didn't was not addictive
Speaker 6: of a sexual assault that.
Speaker 12: The jury said. He definitely did it, and it was
Speaker 12: in public. It was a civil suit. It's not a conviction.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.
Speaker 12: It was a civil suit where he jury said he
Speaker 12: definitely did sexual assault in public.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 12: So to the economic issues, so look, he passes all
Speaker 12: these wonderful laws that help America's Like look at paid
Speaker 12: family leave. That's a Democrat saying, hey, mom should get
Speaker 12: in that case, twenty weeks off after they have a
Speaker 12: baby so they could bond with a baby.
Speaker 6: And Republicans going that would have hurt interests. Corporations want
Speaker 6: you to go back to work the next day.
Speaker 12: And so they all voted no, and they said, well,
Speaker 12: if you both have moms spend any time with their babies,
Speaker 12: and you know how much Republicans hate babies, and if
Speaker 12: you do that, my god, it's going to sink the economy.
Speaker 6: Except it didn't. It's the fifth best state for business.
Speaker 12: So not only did the average Minnesota get a lot
Speaker 12: better situation, but you guys.
Speaker 6: Were all wrong. It didn't hurt business at all. So
Speaker 6: it's always been a mirage.
Speaker 12: It's the Republican Party is built to serve the rich
Speaker 12: and serve corporations, So they don't want you to have
Speaker 12: one day with your baby at all. They don't want
Speaker 12: you sickly, they don't want any day. Don't want child Exspreddit.
Speaker 12: They don't want any of that stuff because it would
Speaker 12: hurt their beloved corporations, they think in their infinite greed.
Speaker 6: But it turns out he doesn't even hurt them. It
Speaker 6: still makes business perfectly happy.
Speaker 12: So he found a way to balance interest in a
Speaker 12: way that helped everyone.
Speaker 6: You can't argue with them.
Speaker 5: And well, I feel like Republicans are going to have
Speaker 5: two problems in going after Walls, And one is that,
Speaker 5: like you said, Walls seems like a pretty boring white guy,
Speaker 5: So painting him as a as a radical is going
Speaker 5: to be difficult. And Minnesota is Minnesota, and so painting
Speaker 5: it as Steven Miller tried, as like the next Mogadishu
Speaker 5: is going to be difficult, and like portraying it as
Speaker 5: some like you know, communist Mecca is also going to
Speaker 5: be difficult because it's Minnesota. But maybe I'm wrong here,
Speaker 5: like you like, what is what is your sense of
Speaker 5: how you guys are going to be able to turn
Speaker 5: Minnesota and Tim Walls into kind of scary figures.
Speaker 16: We're just going to keep publishing the images and videos
Speaker 16: of Minneapolis. In June twenty twenty, over and over and
Speaker 16: over again. That's what we're going to do. I feel like,
Speaker 16: I mean.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you're probably I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: I suspect you will. I think that people are over
Speaker 5: that like that. It's that you're going to look like
Speaker 5: you're complaining about something that people are kind of ready
Speaker 5: to move past and are going to say, Look, the
Speaker 5: protests were well meaning, they were targeting a genuine injustice.
Speaker 5: They went overboard at times. We don't necessarily want to
Speaker 5: be reminded of that. Why are you guys reminding us?
Speaker 3: Maybe you're maybe you see my point, Like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if this is going to work.
Speaker 16: For it, but I think that the sort of people
Speaker 16: who are swing voters in this election, I mean, you
Speaker 16: look at generally, like what do swing voters care about?
Speaker 16: What are the Republican's strongest issues with string voters? Immigration, crime, inflation?
Speaker 6: Right? Those three those are the ones, and crime is
Speaker 6: a big one.
Speaker 16: Like the defund the police stuff that Kamala has said
Speaker 16: in the past, abolishized stuff. That's all stuff that she's
Speaker 16: extremely worried about. That's why she spent like a whole
Speaker 16: week having her flax go out there and claim that
Speaker 16: she wasn't the borders are so like they're worried about
Speaker 16: this stuff. Tim Waltz makes it much worse for them.
Speaker 16: This is where jos Shapiro would have been a really
Speaker 16: much stronger candidate, more moderate, better on crime. But Tim
Speaker 16: Waltz is just it fits into the narrative because one
Speaker 16: of again, one of Kamala's weakest points is that she
Speaker 16: promoted that bail fund in Minneapolis, and Tim Waltz is
Speaker 16: the governor of Minnesota who twittled.
Speaker 4: His times and why Jink, is that not a huge
Speaker 4: problem for Waltz in your opinion?
Speaker 6: Yeah, So a couple of things here.
Speaker 12: At number one, this is the same thing Democrats did
Speaker 12: about January sixth. They beat it into the ground and
Speaker 12: they showed the video after video after video until people
Speaker 12: got bored of it. So I'm kind of known for
Speaker 12: being honest about our side and the weaknesses in our side,
Speaker 12: and I don't think that was great political strategy. And
Speaker 12: right now Republicans are remaining that same mistake. I think
Speaker 12: Ryan's exactly right. People get it.
Speaker 6: Hey, listen, George Floyd was one of the greatest injustices.
Speaker 12: I don't know, maybe Republicans changed their minds and they
Speaker 12: think maybe he had a coming or something.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 12: Maybe they're going to defend Chauvin like they defended Kyle
Speaker 12: Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman. But in terms of the riots,
Speaker 12: he did call out the National Guard. They're saying, oh,
Speaker 12: he didn't do it fast enough. But again, if your
Speaker 12: candidate is Donald Trump, and he refused to call out
Speaker 12: the National Guard on January sixth, and he sat around
Speaker 12: and enjoyed it while his own supporters chanted, hang Mike Pence,
Speaker 12: Hang Mike Pence, and he said he didn't mind. I
Speaker 12: don't think you get to make the case that, oh
Speaker 12: my god, there'll be chaos if the other guys are elected.
Speaker 12: So I just don't think that that's a winning issue
Speaker 12: for them. I think it feels old and stale. But
Speaker 12: they could run it, and when they do again, it'll
Speaker 12: feel a little bit racial, and so I think that
Speaker 12: they can't help them. They keep attacking on race, on
Speaker 12: the fact that Kamala Harris is a woman, so you know,
Speaker 12: on Tim Walls, I mean, they got nothing because of
Speaker 12: what Ryan pointed out.
Speaker 6: It's Minnesota. He's a lovable old grandpa.
Speaker 12: He passed the laws that the people of Minnesota are
Speaker 12: thrilled with and so they're gonna go to weird. But
Speaker 12: that's what he said about you guys, and everybody thinks
Speaker 12: that's true. So it just seems super weak. I don't
Speaker 12: think they have any case at all. Look just real
Speaker 12: quick on this. When Joe Biden was in the race,
Speaker 12: I said he had a zero percent chance of winning.
Speaker 6: So it's not like I'm.
Speaker 12: Telling you, oh yeah, raw, raw, Democratic Party they're so
Speaker 12: great now. I think they're the clear favorites because his
Speaker 12: record of Minnesota is excellent. Kamala Harris has been terrific
Speaker 12: on the campaign trail, and now Donald Trump looks like
Speaker 12: the stale, old tired guy who's still raving like a
Speaker 12: lunatic in the corner. I think they're in a world
Speaker 12: of herb.
Speaker 4: So Ryan made a point earlier in the show that
Speaker 4: about this exchange Stephen Miller had with someone about the
Speaker 4: It was someone posting a picture of Tim Waltz with
Speaker 4: his hunting gear on, like bird hunting, something like that,
Speaker 4: and said, how are you going to paint this guy
Speaker 4: as like a San Francisco liberal or coastal leader or something,
Speaker 4: And Steven Miller replied, he put tampons in girls' bathrooms
Speaker 4: or in boys bathrooms. I'm sorry, And when the exchange
Speaker 4: went super viral, so Will Ryan was making the point
Speaker 4: that it backfires on Republicans because then they look like
Speaker 4: the middle aged men who are obsessing over tampon's or
Speaker 4: like forcing you to think about tampons. What's your response
Speaker 4: to that, because to me, I actually think that Steven
Speaker 4: Miller point is pretty successful at undercutting the dumb argument
Speaker 4: that this is just your average, you know, roural Minnesotan dad.
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I do see Ryan's point.
Speaker 16: I think the politics of that issue in particular have
Speaker 16: changed over the last eight years, and that the general
Speaker 16: public is a lot less sympathetic to especially when it
Speaker 16: comes to stuff about trans and kids. So I don't
Speaker 16: think it helps Tim Waltz that he was like making
Speaker 16: his state a refuge for you know, you know, puberty
Speaker 16: blockers for children. I think that it's going to actually
Speaker 16: look bad for him. But more broadly, I think it's
Speaker 16: like generally it's just this hic lip stuff where you know,
Speaker 16: it's like, oh, look, it's a liberal with a gun.
Speaker 16: That's going to persuade conservatives that he's just a fine guy.
Speaker 16: I mean, we've got so many obvious attacks. I mean,
Speaker 16: obviously the deployment dodger one is the biggest one. The
Speaker 16: guy's not going to have credibility among veterans. Every veteran's
Speaker 16: going to look at him be like you would have
Speaker 16: abandoned me when I.
Speaker 6: Was about to deploy. That's what They're going to look
Speaker 6: at him and say, that's sick.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's just prue so smick.
Speaker 12: You guys do it every time to actual veterans. It's
Speaker 12: an emooral line of attack. You did it to John
Speaker 12: Carry after you took bullets for this country. Your guys
Speaker 12: are all chicken hawks. They're all loser cowards like Donald
Speaker 12: Trump who ran from Vietnam, Dick Cheney who never served,
Speaker 12: Tom Delay who said, oh, black people took my spot.
Speaker 12: Otherwise they would have gotten to Vietnam they never served.
Speaker 12: They're always coward or is they always send other people
Speaker 12: to die. They're always rich people going, hey, why don't
Speaker 12: you poor middle class people die for the wars that
Speaker 12: I start and j vance twenty seven years?
Speaker 6: Yea van Tim waltsteron, okay, what do you p twenty
Speaker 6: seven years? Then I'll judge you. I'll Joe stayed twenty
Speaker 6: eight year.
Speaker 3: Jack judging you, so jenk to knock on him.
Speaker 5: That you're going to hear from the right is that
Speaker 5: it was May sixteenth, two thousand and five, just when
Speaker 5: when when Walls stepped aside and as he as he retired,
Speaker 5: So this was after twenty plus years in the National Guard,
Speaker 5: but as he retired, his unit was about to deploy,
Speaker 5: and according to people in the unit, he had told
Speaker 5: those in the unit that he would deploy with them.
Speaker 6: To a wreck.
Speaker 3: So that that's gonna be the hit.
Speaker 5: You think, it doesn't land because because they go they
Speaker 5: went after John Kerry s, they'll go after everybody.
Speaker 3: So they've lost.
Speaker 4: And Jane, let me add also that Chris Lasovita is
Speaker 4: the head of the Trump campaigns wills right now. He
Speaker 4: is the architect of the swift boat ad campaign.
Speaker 12: Yeah, of course, that's what he does is he does
Speaker 12: this to every veteran who's served. Oh, you want to
Speaker 12: serve America, We're going to find a way to smear you,
Speaker 12: and we're going to pretend that you didn't get shot enough.
Speaker 6: We're going to pretend that you didn't serve long enough.
Speaker 12: Even though our guys never served, and you served over
Speaker 12: two decades, but we're going to find a way to
Speaker 12: use that against you. So hey, listen, if you're an
Speaker 12: average American and you like politics and you care about
Speaker 12: this country and you want to fix it, be careful
Speaker 12: if you go into the armed services, the Republicans will
Speaker 12: viciously smear you later.
Speaker 6: Oh he took a bathroom break once. I didn't like him.
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, he was something I didn't like in the
Speaker 12: in training, in the army, or in the National Guard. Okay,
Speaker 12: where was your guy? Oh no, he didn't have a
Speaker 12: unit to deploy because his dad literally bribed a doctor
Speaker 12: to write a doctor's note about a bone.
Speaker 6: Spur he didn't have. So will can you explain?
Speaker 12: I'm being serious because you're smearing a guy who served
Speaker 12: for decades. So I want you to answer to me
Speaker 12: why Donald Trump isn't a gigantic coward from running from Vietnam.
Speaker 12: Don't tell me about an assassination attempt. Okay, that's a
Speaker 12: different thing, and I gave him credit for that. Tell
Speaker 12: me about why he ran from Vietnam and let Lura
Speaker 12: and middle class Americans die. Or and while he bragged
Speaker 12: about going to Orgy's instead.
Speaker 16: I don't know the details of what exactly went on
Speaker 16: with his Vietnam stuff, but I will say this, this
Speaker 16: is the obvious comparison. He was twenty two when Vietnam
Speaker 16: was going on. Tim Waltz was a grown man and
Speaker 16: the leader of his unit, and he abandoned them.
Speaker 12: So, since he was a spoiled little brat and his
Speaker 12: daddy had given him four hundred million dollars and he
Speaker 12: was twenty two and he wanted to get laid, he
Speaker 12: let other people die for him. That seems like a
Speaker 12: really compelling argument. You guys seem super brave and really
Speaker 12: into veterans. I mean, Tim waltzs did exactly that. He
Speaker 12: could have gone with his unit. Three of his unit died.
Speaker 12: These were the men he was leading and told what
Speaker 12: he would deploy with them, and then fifty thousand died
Speaker 12: in Vietnam. None of them were billionaires kids, that's for sure.
Speaker 12: None of them were rich kids like Donald Trump who
Speaker 12: all dodged. And when you dodged the draft like that,
Speaker 12: what you say is, I don't mind if a kid
Speaker 12: from Minnesota or Nebraska dies on my behalf. I got
Speaker 12: orgies to go to you know, what Donald Trump did
Speaker 12: with veterans who were homeless in front of Trump Tower.
Speaker 6: He had them removed.
Speaker 12: He thought that they lowered his property values because those
Speaker 12: veterans went to Vietnam. Oh, I guess they were dramatized
Speaker 12: because Daddy didn't get them out so here it kicked
Speaker 12: them off of my in front of my Trump Tower.
Speaker 12: This rich bitch who ran, ran, ran, who never served,
Speaker 12: who's a giant coward who doesn't know which ankle had
Speaker 12: the bone spurs, has a temerity to go after a
Speaker 12: veteran who serve for over two decades and has the
Speaker 12: medals to show for it. It's disgusting.
Speaker 4: Let me, maybe this is a good place to start
Speaker 4: winding down the conversation because does any of this actually matter? Like,
Speaker 4: that's the question I want to pitch to both of you.
Speaker 4: This is the vice president, the vice president's nominee that is,
Speaker 4: so does litigating the details of his departure from Army
Speaker 4: National Guard, like whether it's that, whether it's economic policy,
Speaker 4: is is it going to have a meaningful effect on
Speaker 4: the Harris ticket or on the Trump Vance ticket? Like
Speaker 4: is Tim Walt? Does he really matter? And I'll start
Speaker 4: with you on that one.
Speaker 3: Drink.
Speaker 17: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Look, I have to play defense on it because these
Speaker 12: guys are immoral, so they keep smearing every Democratic candidate
Speaker 12: in the same exact way. Oh, you dare to serve
Speaker 12: in our armed services, We're gonna use it against you.
Speaker 6: We're gonna weaponize.
Speaker 12: So I'm not gonna let them do that, okay, especially
Speaker 12: when their parties fill to the rim with cowards who
Speaker 12: never serve.
Speaker 6: Okay, so you don't get the smear veterans after.
Speaker 12: You chose to run from every battle and start those
Speaker 12: wars and then never serve in them. So I'm not
Speaker 12: gonna let them get away with it in terms of
Speaker 12: what people vote on. Go ahead, do your.
Speaker 6: Immoral smears of veterans. It's not gonna work. The only
Speaker 6: thing people care about is how does this election affect
Speaker 6: my life? The reason I was there's.
Speaker 12: Many reasons I was against, but one of them was
Speaker 12: he kept talking about my legacy and I got to
Speaker 12: have a second term, etc. I'm like, yeah, brother, what's
Speaker 12: your policies? How are you going to help the average American?
Speaker 12: But now we have a team that has a track
Speaker 12: record of helping I mean, you want to talk about
Speaker 12: Tim Walls.
Speaker 6: You're attacking him.
Speaker 12: He's a track record of passing dozens of bills that
Speaker 12: help the average person in Minnesota. That's why he's intensely
Speaker 12: popular in his own state. That's why these bills worked
Speaker 12: because they weren't about ego building for tim walls. They're
Speaker 12: about actually improving the lives of Americans. And Donald Trump
Speaker 12: doesn't have that record. He has a record of what
Speaker 12: he did one giant bill when he was in office,
Speaker 12: enormous corporate tax cuts for his donors, and that's his legacy.
Speaker 6: So he's gonna run on that.
Speaker 12: Oh, I helped all the corporations, so oh, all the
Speaker 12: corporations are my best friends. I gave them all the
Speaker 12: biggest tax breaks and they're all now much richer and
Speaker 12: you guys have to pay more taxes because of it.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, run on that record.
Speaker 12: And I think that it's going to be super obvious
Speaker 12: who people should vote for.
Speaker 6: I think we're gonna win this actually relatively easily. Now.
Speaker 5: And will any final words, If you've got like one
Speaker 5: minute to talk to this swing voter who was going
Speaker 5: to decide this selection or swing, whether whether it's a
Speaker 5: vote or not vote, might be their swing decision, what
Speaker 5: do you say to them about this pick.
Speaker 16: Like, really, are you better off right now than you
Speaker 16: were under the Trump administration? Economically, the economy was booming
Speaker 16: under Trump and it absolutely crashed under Biden.
Speaker 6: Inflation is out of control.
Speaker 16: If you would even go to the grocery store, you
Speaker 16: can tell gas prices are out of control. And why
Speaker 16: they're at war with domestic energy. I mean, Kamal Harris
Speaker 16: wants to ban fracking. She said that repeatedly, so you
Speaker 16: have I mean, if you're talking about just core economic
Speaker 16: issues like this, good is this team Harris Walt's going
Speaker 16: to be good for your pocketbook? It's not there. They
Speaker 16: have a slew of bad policies. Meanwhile, you know they're
Speaker 16: trying to portray Trump vance as Romney Ryan. It's a
Speaker 16: different Republican party. This is a pro worker Republican party
Speaker 16: that had the leader of the Teamsters on epic Men.
Speaker 16: You can both be pro worker and not indulge in
Speaker 16: insane green delusions that kill your economy, and that's what
Speaker 16: the Republicans are all about.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, thanks thanks to both of you, guys.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, that's an interesting place to end,
Speaker 4: because I think we'll just previewed where Republican messaging will
Speaker 4: want to go. And whether or not Donald Trump carries that,
Speaker 4: you know, successfully, is an open question. Trump and others
Speaker 4: carry that successfully is an open question.
Speaker 3: And how it works against Waltz is an open question.
Speaker 3: So thank you both. It was a very helpful discussion.
Speaker 6: Thank you, guys. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Wesley Bell has defeated Corey Bush in the race for
Speaker 4: Missouri's first districts Democratic primary. He won ended up winning
Speaker 4: by about six points, not five and a half points. Ryan,
Speaker 4: you followed this race really closely. A lot of chatter
Speaker 4: and the media today about what actually happened. I'm not
Speaker 4: convinced that the media knows what actually happened, but I
Speaker 4: am convinced that you know what actually happens.
Speaker 3: But please tell us.
Speaker 5: Well, So, I mean, the headline is the you know,
Speaker 5: the squad is now depending on how you count it,
Speaker 5: shrinking from what was eight members at the BA if
Speaker 5: you count summerly in Great Gazar.
Speaker 4: Should we start crossing people off on your books? Coyeah,
Speaker 4: you can see it. I'm right, Yeah, we got it.
Speaker 5: So, yeah, you've got Corey Bush and Jamal Bowmen. So
Speaker 5: of those six of two of them have lost primaries.
Speaker 5: But have cost a pack a combined total of at
Speaker 5: least twenty five million dollars to knock them out. That's
Speaker 5: seventeen million in Jamal Bowman's race, and now eight million
Speaker 5: dropped on dropped on Corey Busch to win the All
Speaker 5: the votes are not counted yet, but we're looking at
Speaker 5: about sixty three. Yeah, as you see up there, sixty
Speaker 5: three thousand for Wesley Bell pushing fifty six thousand over
Speaker 5: fifty six thousands for Corey Bush.
Speaker 3: So he ended up being a pretty close.
Speaker 5: Race for you know, as as massively outspent as as
Speaker 5: Corey Busch was. You know, what we learned from the
Speaker 5: Nina Turner race and the Summer Lee race is that
Speaker 5: millions of dollars in camp in spending on TV can
Speaker 5: move the needle roughly twenty to thirty points. It's it's
Speaker 5: it's a dramatic amount that you can kind of push
Speaker 5: the number now if you have. Summer Lee ended up
Speaker 5: winning that race where she dropped twenty five thirty points
Speaker 5: in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: She won it by a you know, just a few
Speaker 3: thousand votes.
Speaker 5: Nina Turner ended up losing that race by something like
Speaker 5: four thousand votes. Very close, very close race as well.
Speaker 5: But people are not plugged in. People don't have as
Speaker 5: you know, a lot of voters don't have a depth
Speaker 5: of feeling about a candidate such that millions of dollars
Speaker 5: is not going to sway their their choice for that race.
Speaker 5: And so you get a lot of debating about whether
Speaker 5: or not spending APEX spending twenty five million dollar in
Speaker 5: these two races matters, which to me is the craziest
Speaker 5: question you could ever ask. Like, I get it that
Speaker 5: people who can afford to give twenty five million dollars
Speaker 5: have enough money that they're not going to be poor
Speaker 5: as a result of giving it, But they still are
Speaker 5: not spending that.
Speaker 3: Money for no reason.
Speaker 5: And it's almost insulting to their intelligence to suggest that
Speaker 5: anybody would spend twenty five million dollars to have no effect,
Speaker 5: Like why would you do that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, just buy it.
Speaker 5: You know, there's things they could spend that money on,
Speaker 5: like an elevator, an elevator for your garage so you
Speaker 5: can move your cars up and down the different Yeah,
Speaker 5: like rommy, Like that would be a cool thing to
Speaker 5: have if you're super rich. Instead, you're going to waste
Speaker 5: it for no reason. On a political campaign, they have
Speaker 5: a lot of money to raise the money. The money matters,
Speaker 5: so and this does not count, by the way, the million,
Speaker 5: we don't know the fine Well, well we can figure
Speaker 5: out the final total later. But most of the money
Speaker 5: that west Bell raised directly to his campaign was bundled
Speaker 5: a pack and that that money is actually more valuable
Speaker 5: than the eight million. And it's complicated, but not that complicated.
Speaker 5: So if you are a super pac like Apex super
Speaker 5: Pac which is called United Democracy Project, you have to
Speaker 5: pay higher rates for cable television and television advertising, so
Speaker 5: your eight million dollars doesn't go as far as it
Speaker 5: as as it does for the candidate themselves. So the
Speaker 5: candidate gets discounted gets discounted rates. Also, the candidate can
Speaker 5: coordinate because with their own campaign, the candidate can say,
Speaker 5: all right, I want to do you know, a million
Speaker 5: dollars on this channel. I want to do a million
Speaker 5: dollars targeting these voters. I want to do a million
Speaker 5: over here, whereas and these are the exact messages that
Speaker 5: I want to hit. Whereas the super pac is just
Speaker 5: out on its own, you know, running its own polling
Speaker 5: and running its own operation. So for those two reasons,
Speaker 5: the ability to coordinate the money and the discount you
Speaker 5: get on tele vision advertising. It's much better to get
Speaker 5: money directly to the campaign. And APAC raised we'll find
Speaker 5: out in the next couple of weeks, but enormous sum
Speaker 5: directly to Wesley Bell's campaign. And that's on top of
Speaker 5: the eight million dollars that they spent through their superpack.
Speaker 4: And I want to ask you now about how that
Speaker 4: money was spent, because if we look at the polling,
Speaker 4: this is the next element D two that we put
Speaker 4: this up on the screen, it was absolutely all over
Speaker 4: the place. So this is from five thirty eights sort
Speaker 4: of coalating of the poles. Last one had Bell up
Speaker 4: by six points. Now, these small house races, the polling
Speaker 4: is usually going to be scattered through a lot of
Speaker 4: different time periods of the reliable pulling. At least but
Speaker 4: one before that had Bell up twenty three points late
Speaker 4: June early July. Another one though that was also taken
Speaker 4: in mid June, had Bell only up by one point,
Speaker 4: and then one from all the way back in February
Speaker 4: have Bell by twenty two points. The one constant in
Speaker 4: that is Corey Bush never led in one of those
Speaker 4: serious polls, at least as five thirty eight defines them
Speaker 4: as worthy polls. So how were there wild swings in
Speaker 4: public sentiment as it came to Corey Bush. I think
Speaker 4: probably the likelier story is that these races are just
Speaker 4: really hard to pull, and you know, support for Bell
Speaker 4: was probably around you know, ten plus. Then Corey Bush
Speaker 4: did come in towards the end of the race, and actually,
Speaker 4: if there were poles, finding her down by twenty three
Speaker 4: points made it closer than it probably should have been.
Speaker 4: So what were they talking about? And what was west
Speaker 4: Bell doing with the a PAC money in terms of
Speaker 4: messaging that was weighing on voter's minds yesterday.
Speaker 5: And you know, credit to Mark Mellon who's the head
Speaker 5: of the Melman Group and also the founder of d MFI,
Speaker 5: which is like basically an a Pack affiliate. Some of
Speaker 5: these poles are from Yeah there, he's the one that
Speaker 5: did the plus six pole that was in the plus
Speaker 5: foio and the plus one pole and I think those
Speaker 5: are those look pretty accurate. Like he's so he's a
Speaker 5: polster and also runs DMFI uh which was which was
Speaker 5: the which was the super pac that was running before
Speaker 5: APAC developed its own super pack and it still runs
Speaker 5: in Democratic primaries.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 5: What Corey Bush was hitting Wessey Belt with everything in
Speaker 5: the kitchen sink, including in some in one of her
Speaker 5: final ads, attacking him for sleeping with subordinates as a prosecutor,
Speaker 5: as a he was a kind of reformist kind of
Speaker 5: Soros back to d a in in Saint Louis. He got,
Speaker 5: he got sued. He was able, Uh, he was able
Speaker 5: to or for some reason the lawsuit that would have
Speaker 5: involved a lot of dirty laundry being aired was delayed
Speaker 5: past the election. Uh, and it was scheduled to take
Speaker 5: place maybe six eight weeks ago or so, and on
Speaker 5: the day of the hearing it was then postponed. So
Speaker 5: that that really helped Wesley Bell because he was he's
Speaker 5: getting based that he's getting sued by.
Speaker 3: Women in his office who either fired or who quit.
Speaker 5: And are making all sorts of allegations and maybe those
Speaker 5: will come out a year from now and we'll get
Speaker 5: a Cory Bush Wesley Bell rematch at a Jamal Bowman
Speaker 5: Richie Torres race.
Speaker 4: Well, how did how did Belle successfully sort of.
Speaker 5: The same playbook that he's that that they went after
Speaker 5: summerly with that they went to Jamal Bowman with at
Speaker 5: Corey Bush is a radical, she's out of step with Democrats.
Speaker 3: Even as a reformist prosecutor. He was able to sort
Speaker 3: of make that argument.
Speaker 5: Well, that's yeah, because I mean, being a reformist prosecutor
Speaker 5: in Saint Louis is very popular among Democrats.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, just just the ads.
Speaker 5: None of the ads, to your point, were about Israel Palestine.
Speaker 5: Apex spent in the twenty five million dollars they spent
Speaker 5: on these two races, all most zero was spent talking
Speaker 5: about Israel Palestine. There was one ad that Apax super
Speaker 5: Pac ran shortly after October seventh where they came after
Speaker 5: Corey Bush and they mentioned and it was about Israel
Speaker 5: Palestine and you know, basically calling her Hama supporter. And
Speaker 5: that was before Wesley Bell had even jumped in the race.
Speaker 5: And we can talk about this if we have this
Speaker 5: this audio that we published over at drop site News.
Speaker 5: Wesley Bell was originally running for Senate and there were
Speaker 5: rumors last summer that that were published in this in
Speaker 5: the Saint Louis Post Dispatch that he was actually running
Speaker 5: for Senate to raise his name identification so that he
Speaker 5: could then jump into the race against Corey Bush and
Speaker 5: benefit from all of the super Pac spending that is
Speaker 5: always there to go against anybody in the squad. After
Speaker 5: October seventh, that that that level of.
Speaker 3: Money that was available increased. So he called.
Speaker 12: Uh.
Speaker 5: He called Corey Bush after the Saint Louis Paper had
Speaker 5: said that he was thinking about doing this and and
Speaker 5: swore to her that that absolutely was not happening.
Speaker 3: We do we have that audio if we run that.
Speaker 4: There's some stuff that I know because I just just
Speaker 4: just his game.
Speaker 6: Long enough bills are there. Their Hollman is the heck
Speaker 6: he is.
Speaker 11: In the in the proof of.
Speaker 13: It is name one legitimate reported at one.
Speaker 6: They eat it close to that and this is stupid, exactly. No,
Speaker 6: you're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 12: Don't big, don't big, don't be big for even a
Speaker 12: second that that's the case. And I'm telling you right now,
Speaker 12: I'm telling you my word, not running.
Speaker 3: Soren.
Speaker 4: This is audio a Bell telling Bush that Holloman was
Speaker 4: a quote hack.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So basically, so basically what he's said, what's going on?
Speaker 5: So basically what he says is that the author of
Speaker 5: the piece is a total hack. Everybody believes he's a hack.
Speaker 5: The reporter should not be believed. There's no chance. Don't think
Speaker 5: for even a second that that's the case. I'm telling
Speaker 5: you right now, I'm telling you on my word, i
Speaker 5: am not running against you. That is not happening. And
Speaker 5: Corey Bush says, well, you know, I'm just thinking. You know,
Speaker 5: Steve Roberts, who ran against her last time, had said
Speaker 5: the same thing, and but that he wouldn't run against her,
Speaker 5: he wouldn't jump from one race to another.
Speaker 3: But he did.
Speaker 5: And he's like, I'm no Steve Roberts. He says, I
Speaker 5: ain't no Steve Roberts. Steve Roberts then ended up endorsing
Speaker 5: Westy Bell. So anyway, so shockingly he lied to her
Speaker 5: and then jumped into the race. But we could see
Speaker 5: a rematch in twenty twenty six, who knows, we'll see what.
Speaker 3: And Corey Bush got attacked.
Speaker 5: For for paying her husband to do security that that
Speaker 5: that quote unquote scan.
Speaker 4: Her now husband, right, while also being a defund the
Speaker 4: police type progressive it was that was a big item
Speaker 4: in conservative media.
Speaker 3: Right, that wouldn't have mattered. It is hard, but.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and also like the whole premise of the movie,
Speaker 5: Bodyguard is about falling in So I don't see how.
Speaker 3: Everybody loves that.
Speaker 4: Well, I just mean for your average voter there, if
Speaker 4: there's a sense or an aura of kind of drama
Speaker 4: and chaos around someone, that can someone else comes in
Speaker 4: and says, you know, I'm a no drama.
Speaker 3: Obama or whatever it is.
Speaker 4: It's that can that can actually hurt someone if there's
Speaker 4: a lot of like scandal and.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was that was Yes, Corey Bush is causing
Speaker 5: too much chaos.
Speaker 3: I mean like it's about her.
Speaker 16: And this.
Speaker 4: So Crystalin and I back at the Hill, Uh interviewed
Speaker 4: Corey Bush the morning after she won her primary. So yeah,
Speaker 4: that was a while.
Speaker 3: It feels like a while ago.
Speaker 4: And I just have always been frustrated on some of
Speaker 4: the conservative attacks on court Bush because there's she's I'm
Speaker 4: very curious about her future because I think she falls
Speaker 4: into sort of whatever the we talk about red meat
Speaker 4: maybe blue meat. I think she falls into that sometimes.
Speaker 4: But she's also a more interesting person than some people give.
Speaker 3: Her credit for. Extremely interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, here's where her future goes.
Speaker 3: I hope we haven't heard the last of her.
Speaker 4: Ryan in the UK, the Southampton fallout, the tragedy that
Speaker 4: happened in Southampton continues to rock the United Kingdom. Protests
Speaker 4: are erupting all over London, and Elon Musk is of
Speaker 4: course playing very close attention to geopolitics, as he always does.
Speaker 4: Worth noting in literally every discussion of Elon Musk and
Speaker 4: foreign policy that he is a defense contractor, so let's
Speaker 4: keep that in mind.
Speaker 3: It's not quite as.
Speaker 4: Relevant here as it is when he weighs in on
Speaker 4: Israel or Taiwan and China, but always worth noting here.
Speaker 4: Now Elon Musk has been all over let's actually just
Speaker 4: put e one up on the screen. This is an
Speaker 4: article from Politico Europe. The headline is UKPM slams Elon
Speaker 4: Musk for saying fire right riots for quote inevitable. So
Speaker 4: a spokesperson for Prime Minister kre Starmer came out and
Speaker 4: said there was quote no justification for Elon Musk continuing
Speaker 4: to say that Europe is heading towards a civil.
Speaker 3: War, that the.
Speaker 4: Labor parties policies and actually the Conservative parties policies over
Speaker 4: the last decade plus. And this is something that a
Speaker 4: lot of excellent writers have pointed out at Unheard where
Speaker 4: I work now that those policies were inevitably The word
Speaker 4: inevitable has been used a lot in these conversations. Were
Speaker 4: inevitably going to come to this climax? If it is
Speaker 4: a climax, Elon Musk seems to think there's more to come,
Speaker 4: full civil war, to come to the point where.
Speaker 3: Let's put up this next element.
Speaker 4: This is yeah, so he says to care Starmer, shouldn't
Speaker 4: you be concerned about a tax on all communities? When
Speaker 4: Starmer says we will not tolerate attacks on mosques or
Speaker 4: on Muslim communities, this is in reference to the riots
Speaker 4: that have broken out after uh there was there were
Speaker 4: killings of children in Southampton that were initially attributed to
Speaker 4: like immigrants. It turned out that it was the child
Speaker 4: of immigrants, so a British we know so far.
Speaker 5: Was what originally circulated on social media and heavily on Twitter,
Speaker 5: was that it was an illegal Muslim that stabbed.
Speaker 3: These and killed these three little girls.
Speaker 5: It turned out it was a Christian who was born
Speaker 5: in Wales to Rwanda, to Rwandan parents, to Rwandan parents,
Speaker 5: and the UK took the step of actually putting out
Speaker 5: like look, no, like this is this is who did this?
Speaker 3: This is miss This is misinformation.
Speaker 5: Regardless it it would not justify lynch mobs going through
Speaker 5: the street trying to beat, trying to eat up Muslims
Speaker 5: throughout throughout the UK. Yeah, gosh, nothing and Elon Musk's
Speaker 5: like to attempt to like both sides it there is.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 5: Doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation that it.
Speaker 5: That is, like the rampaging mobs are in general like racist,
Speaker 5: anti immigrant folks going after Muslims and refuge and asylum seekers.
Speaker 4: Well, what's happened is anybody who looks Muslim In the
Speaker 4: aftermath of the original outbreak of protests against Muslim communities
Speaker 4: in the UK, Muslim communities have responded to them and
Speaker 4: there has been I mean there genuinely now has been
Speaker 4: outbreaks of unrest on quite literally both sides. That's not
Speaker 4: where what it started with though, was this. I guess
Speaker 4: a lot of people this is has also justified Cure
Speaker 4: Starmer's horrific policies of calling for more facial recognition and
Speaker 4: more surveillance of social media, more censorship of social media,
Speaker 4: because there was disinformation that circulated on social media and
Speaker 4: seems to have provoked some of the response. But a
Speaker 4: newsflash to our technocrats in the EU and in Westminster.
Speaker 4: This is going to people will spread disinformation at pubs
Speaker 4: and bars, whether or not there's mother efing Twitter for
Speaker 4: them to spread the disinformation on. They will still organize.
Speaker 4: People have organized mobs for a long time before social
Speaker 4: media came along. Disinformation is not something that you can
Speaker 4: technocratically completely suppress. It's not going away, no matter how
Speaker 4: how many you know civil liberties you clamp down on.
Speaker 5: But Elon musk Oh, go ahead, yeah, no, I mentioned
Speaker 5: this on the show yesterday. But if it's it's it's
Speaker 5: an interesting historical fact to your point that pick pick
Speaker 5: a pick a riot or revolution and uprising that you're
Speaker 5: familiar with, uh, and then go search like the origin
Speaker 5: of how it happened.
Speaker 3: World War One, and it almost all war or a
Speaker 3: world war.
Speaker 5: It almost always was based on something that wasn't actually accurate.
Speaker 3: You're going to do the British take on the American Revolution?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that one too, right, maybe the Boston massacre
Speaker 5: and the Party some of that, Yeah, but yes, but
Speaker 5: what you always also find is that these structural conditions
Speaker 5: were in place for something to set off what came.
Speaker 5: So it's true that yes, usually it's misinformation and hundreds
Speaker 5: of years ago predated Twitter or.
Speaker 3: Some mutation, but it also doesn't.
Speaker 5: It also doesn't justify algorithms pushing like obviously false things
Speaker 5: in front of people's faces, like like where where's the
Speaker 5: community note? Like where where's this?
Speaker 4: Like that's why we should get rid of algorithms. Go
Speaker 4: back to old Twitter, where it was just your timeline
Speaker 4: and the and it wasn't put its thumb on the scale.
Speaker 3: And just to hear from your friends.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and you know you can be like okay,
Speaker 4: so five minutes ago because this is further down in
Speaker 4: my feed someone said this. Now you know, five minutes
Speaker 4: later and this is the new post, and you can
Speaker 4: like make your human being with you know, a brain.
Speaker 4: You know, not everybody is going to be brilliant at
Speaker 4: making those judgments, but uh, it's it's better than Twitter's
Speaker 4: like algorithm making.
Speaker 3: The judgments for right.
Speaker 5: And also the mob didn't care when they were like,
Speaker 5: actually it's a Christian from Wales who had rewarded parents.
Speaker 3: It's a good point. That's a really whatever we're rampaging well.
Speaker 4: And the broader point is that the levels of migration
Speaker 4: to the UK have been unsustainable.
Speaker 3: So that's what this like, which.
Speaker 5: Again, as I mentioned before, it they have a channel
Speaker 5: and water around them.
Speaker 3: It's also good luck with the wall.
Speaker 4: Also a very problematic birth rate, as you have talked
Speaker 4: about before. So there's questions about all of that baked
Speaker 4: into this, but basically there's this broader argument that is
Speaker 4: not just shared by people on the kind of for
Speaker 4: far right, so called far right, but also increasingly people
Speaker 4: on the left that look at this and say this
Speaker 4: has been unsustainable over the last decade. And there's a
Speaker 4: very necessary conversation about how neoliberal wars pushed these migration
Speaker 4: waves into Europe and to the United States. But the
Speaker 4: sort of downstream effect of that has been really high
Speaker 4: levels of migration from places that have values that are
Speaker 4: different than Western values, and that is going to whether
Speaker 4: it was Western people coming to their countries or people
Speaker 4: that have different values coming to the UK. You're putting
Speaker 4: two very different cultures together in confined spaces. What did
Speaker 4: you think was going to happen? That's what Musk is saying,
Speaker 4: and we can put E three up on the screen.
Speaker 4: We tease this earlier in the show, but when Eli
Speaker 4: Musk is repeatedly tweeting about how civil wars coming through Europe.
Speaker 4: It gets before it becomes a fine line between prediction
Speaker 4: and what did you say, Ryan provocation?
Speaker 3: Yeah, civil wars brewing.
Speaker 4: Europe appears to be head of her civil war. These
Speaker 4: are actually all from last year, like from after October seventh,
Speaker 4: so late October to early November last year. But Elon
Speaker 4: Musk is very convinced that civil war is coming to Europe.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people.
Speaker 4: Are increasingly convinced that civil war is coming, not just
Speaker 4: to Europe but to the broader West. And anytime you
Speaker 4: have outbreaks of civil unrest like this in ways that
Speaker 4: people have not been used to in the last you know,
Speaker 4: if you grew up in the eighties and nineties, this
Speaker 4: might feel unfamiliar, even though there has been a lot
Speaker 4: of civil unrest.
Speaker 5: If he would have said Bangladesh, she'd be looking so
Speaker 5: precient right now, civil war coming to Bangladesh. But he
Speaker 5: keeps saying about America too. Yeah, he's invested in this.
Speaker 5: He's one of those guys like and hopefully not literally right.
Speaker 5: It's hard sometimes to know what people like him mean
Speaker 5: when they say civil war do they really mean? Because
Speaker 5: when we think of civil wars like we think of
Speaker 5: like armies that are fighting each other over you know,
Speaker 5: pre dominance within a country. He does, he mean mobs rampaging,
Speaker 5: stabbing each other, beating each other what degree? If that's
Speaker 5: all he means, then okay, I guess England's got one.
Speaker 4: Now there's clearly a cultural war, and as the culture
Speaker 4: war civil war when to this example, the child of
Speaker 4: these Rwandan immigrants was from Wales, it was not quote
Speaker 4: unquote foreign. So then it does kind of become the
Speaker 4: argument that it's right, that's true, but it does become
Speaker 4: civil war if it's internice because of these people who
Speaker 4: are born with all of the rights as citizens.
Speaker 3: Well again we're getting to the Whales distinction.
Speaker 4: But let's just hypothetically say it is from London all
Speaker 4: of the same rights as you white Londoner. That that
Speaker 4: means these values are just as I mean, that's what
Speaker 4: uh is what a lot of people would say. These
Speaker 4: values are just as as British as your values. So
Speaker 4: is it a hot civil war? Is it a cold
Speaker 4: civil war? I think is an open question. Does it
Speaker 4: keep rupturing into civil unrest like this or is it managed?
Speaker 4: And you know, is it managed in a way that
Speaker 4: becomes better or worse. That's the question. I do think
Speaker 4: at least the premise that there's a war or a
Speaker 4: clash is obviously true, but whether that becomes something much
Speaker 4: much worse and much much darker is not yet determined.
Speaker 5: I hope we manage our imperial decline better, yes, than
Speaker 5: the British managed there is maybe we need to look
Speaker 5: into the Dutch imperial decline. They seem to have managed
Speaker 5: it pretty well. Like they seem pretty I guess it's
Speaker 5: they have enough distance from their imperial decline also tiny.
Speaker 3: That they're kind of comfy with it.
Speaker 5: But I mean they were absolutely massive and destructive and
Speaker 5: lately they they caused a lot of misery for a
Speaker 5: long stretch time.
Speaker 3: Their borders now at least, and they did collapse pretty badly.
Speaker 5: So so Elon Musk though announced if we can put
Speaker 5: up this this final element that Johnald Trump announced sorry
Speaker 5: that he that he's going to be doing a quote
Speaker 5: major interview with Elon Musk. Details to follow. My guess
Speaker 5: is that he will do this on spaces.
Speaker 3: Santis though.
Speaker 5: What an absolute disaster that that DeSantis one was.
Speaker 4: When you know Trump doesn't put up with that stuff. Like,
Speaker 4: even if the lights are wrong in a room, he'll
Speaker 4: be like, turn the lights off, they're too bright.
Speaker 3: He does not put up with port production.
Speaker 4: At the NABG thing, the National Assession of Black Journalist
Speaker 4: thing last week, when the audio was bad, it was
Speaker 4: driving him visibly crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Right, He's been doing a top shelf like production work,
Speaker 5: celebrity apprentice, et cetera for too long to be putting
Speaker 5: up with lousy audio.
Speaker 4: He doesn't like it. So that tells us Spaces has advanced.
Speaker 5: We'll find out. We'll see Elon Musk do not screw
Speaker 5: this up. Trump's gonna be very mad at you.
Speaker 4: But Elon Musk says, even he denied the forty five
Speaker 4: million monthly thing, he says he's pledged I think like
Speaker 4: one hundred and.
Speaker 3: Eighty million something like that.
Speaker 4: It's it's nebulous what we actually know about it to
Speaker 4: the trumpere election campaigns. So for that kind of money, maybe
Speaker 4: you put up with that audio, or you put up
Speaker 4: with a glitching Spaces. But it does solidify I guess
Speaker 4: it should solidify the new or union between Trump and Musk.
Speaker 4: With the new alliance between Trump and Musk, Trump is
Speaker 4: now pro electric vehicles. He was in a tesla. Did
Speaker 4: you see his cyber Trek interview.
Speaker 3: He hates electric he hates evs.
Speaker 4: And now he loves them, and he said he's openly
Speaker 4: said he has to love them because of Elon, which
Speaker 4: is like a perfect Trump and construction.
Speaker 5: On that note, also, can we bask in the delicious
Speaker 5: irony of Elon Musk saying that he was taking over
Speaker 5: Twitter because he was mad about the election interference and
Speaker 5: it's now just like wildly tilting it towards Donald Trump
Speaker 5: in the.
Speaker 3: Last few months of an election. That's kind of funny.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, Also, I wanted to bask in him saying major
Speaker 4: interview because it reminds me of Christmas story where he
Speaker 4: says he's won a major award and it's the.
Speaker 3: Leg lamp Major Interview, Major Awards, the same thing. On
Speaker 3: that note, that's the end of Counterpoint. Hope it goes
Speaker 3: better for him than than the leg lamp did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that is a great note to end today's
Speaker 4: episode on. Just a really bad joke from me. This
Speaker 4: is perfect, pitch perfect. But thank you everybody for tuning
Speaker 4: in and continuing to tune in Breaking Points dot Com
Speaker 4: if you want to subscribe to the full show, get
Speaker 4: it in your inbox, you get it early, no breaks,
Speaker 4: You get all of counterpoints, which is nice. We don't
Speaker 4: you get access to every segment, as opposed to the
Speaker 4: few that get posted to the YouTube.
Speaker 3: We were posting them all now, oh well I might
Speaker 3: as well. They're all good, I go. I promise you
Speaker 3: don't want to miss a single one.
Speaker 4: I promise they're all good. Yeah, we listen, We're always on.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. I never missed leg day. All right,
Speaker 3: see you guys.
Speaker 6: Don