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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This is the Business of Sports. Sports are the greatest

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Speaker 1: For fans, COVID was one of the best things that

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Speaker 4: The NFL is a bulletproof business.

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Speaker 5: we can't compete with the guys.

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Speaker 2: to tune into this?

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Speaker 5: If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money,

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Speaker 5: you're going to be really, really good.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 3: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore

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Speaker 3: the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm

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Speaker 3: Vanessa Prodomo alongside Damian sas Hour. Michael Barr will be

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Speaker 3: back next week. Coming up on the show, we'll talk

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Speaker 3: with the CEO of Professional Try Athletes Organization Sam Renoff,

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Speaker 3: a big new investment in how PTO wants to take

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Speaker 3: triathlons to the next level.

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Speaker 6: The professional triathletes.

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Speaker 7: They got together and said, look, our sport has grown

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Speaker 7: phenomenally since it got into the Olympic Games in two thousand,

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Speaker 7: but maybe the economics of the commercial side not quite

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Speaker 7: living up to his potential. And so we together formed

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Speaker 7: the PTO in the mirroring you know, the PGA Tour

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Speaker 7: and what they did in the sixties and the ATP

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Speaker 7: and the in tennis in the eighties. So that's how

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Speaker 7: it all came together. It was started by the athletes

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Speaker 7: for the athletes.

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Speaker 3: We'll also talk trading card collectibles with the owner of

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Speaker 3: Bleaker Trading, Matt winklereaed. All that is straight ahead on

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Speaker 3: the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, while the NFL

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Speaker 3: is gearing up for the twenty twenty five regular season,

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Speaker 3: the NFL Players Association is trying to recover from a

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Speaker 3: series of scandals that led to the executive director, Lloyd

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Speaker 3: Howell to resign. Bloomberg Original's chief correspondent Jason Kelly recently

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Speaker 3: sat down with the former NFLPA executive Demorris Smith on

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Speaker 3: a recent episode of the Deal with Alex Rodriguez and

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Speaker 3: Jason Kelly. Here's a portion of that conversation.

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Speaker 8: Even though you have those kind of battles on both

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Speaker 8: sides of the aisle, there is room for business, There

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Speaker 8: is room for compromise. But sometimes those compromises, as somebody

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Speaker 8: like Alex knows, your first year in the league was

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Speaker 8: the strike, right, and so you end up resolving or

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Speaker 8: coming to some sort of compromise on these on these

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Speaker 8: business deals. But I think every now and then people

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Speaker 8: forget that sometimes there's a preceding war and it's full

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Speaker 8: of personalities, it's it's full of intricate business decisions, but

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Speaker 8: also this idea that a group of people on one

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Speaker 8: side can have a good war with the people on

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Speaker 8: the other side, and sometimes good things come out of it.

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Speaker 3: That's former NFLPA executive director Demorris Smith speaking to Jason

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Speaker 3: Kelly and Alex Rodriguez on the latest episode of The Deal.

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Speaker 3: Jason joins Damien and me to talk more about what

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Speaker 3: the NFL could do to fight for change. Jason, welcome

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Speaker 3: back to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 2: I'd love being gassed up here in the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 2: of Sports by both of you.

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Speaker 9: Demorris Smith. Demorris Smith came on the Deal you got

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Speaker 9: to talk to us about, you know, the former NFL

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Speaker 9: Players Association head in today's day and age with what's

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Speaker 9: going on, Jason, What did he lay on you?

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Speaker 10: I mean, what a character this guy is. I don't

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Speaker 10: know if you guys have had a chance to meet

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Speaker 10: him VP. I think you've met him maybe over the years.

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Speaker 10: So longtime head of the NFL PA, and was a

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Speaker 10: character in the job and is a character outside of it.

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Speaker 10: And now that he is really free to speak his mind,

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Speaker 10: he really does it. He's got a new book out.

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Speaker 10: It's called Turf Wars, The Fight for the Soul of

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Speaker 10: America's Game. He really goes there and gives a lot

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Speaker 10: of juicy behind the scenes tidbits about when he was there,

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Speaker 10: which I'm sure you guys have read into, you know,

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Speaker 10: on the show. It was an interesting conversation with him

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Speaker 10: because obviously my co host Alex Rodriguez has a very

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Speaker 10: unique perspective having been a player represented by a players Association. Obviously,

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Speaker 10: Marvin Miller was the legendary head of the PA on

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Speaker 10: on the baseball side. You know, Alex obviously worked very

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Speaker 10: closely with them when he was a player. But now

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Speaker 10: here's Alex Rodriguez, team owner in the NBA, in the WNBA,

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Speaker 10: you know, having to be on the other side of

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Speaker 10: the table, dealing with collective bargaining agreements, dealing with the

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Speaker 10: players associations, you know, both in men's basketball and women's basketball.

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Speaker 3: So did you see Alex's brain kind of churning in

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Speaker 3: this conversation?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it was really it was really interesting because.

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Speaker 10: You know, Alex and I talk a lot, you know,

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Speaker 10: on the show and off the show about you know,

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Speaker 10: all these cool roles that he can play in these

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Speaker 10: sorts of conversations, and you know, these are two guys

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Speaker 10: who you know, have obviously crossed paths over the years,

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Speaker 10: and so you could definitely see Alex asking questions and

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Speaker 10: asking some really good questions about different negotiations.

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Speaker 2: That that d was leading.

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Speaker 10: You know, he did the CBA back in twenty eleven,

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Speaker 10: I believe, and so sort of understanding how whim important

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Speaker 10: that job is. But to your point, now, Alex is

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Speaker 10: obviously looking at it from literally the other side of

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Speaker 10: the table. But one of the things that came out

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Speaker 10: very clearly in our conversation is how hard these jobs are.

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Speaker 10: These are really intense negotiations. You know, you are when

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Speaker 10: you're representing the players, you're representing a huge, wide swath

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Speaker 10: of you know, in his case, men who you know

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Speaker 10: want generally the same thing, but you know, also need

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Speaker 10: to literally collectively bargain. And on the other side of

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Speaker 10: the table you have Roger Goodell the commissioner, you have

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Speaker 10: the league officials. You also have you know, several dozen

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Speaker 10: owners who all have different perspectives. And so he talked

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Speaker 10: with us, and he talks a lot in the book

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Speaker 10: about Robert Kraft and sort of what he learned from him.

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Speaker 10: And you know, oftentimes these guys, this came out pretty

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Speaker 10: clearly from from d and you know Alex is given

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Speaker 10: this perspective as well. You know, it can be very

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Speaker 10: frowzious in the room and these are negotiations, but then

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Speaker 10: you know, at the end of the day you are

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Speaker 10: all in business together. And so I think navigating that

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Speaker 10: world of being adversaries when you're negotiating in contract, but

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Speaker 10: then also realizing that you are business partners at the

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Speaker 10: end of the day.

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Speaker 3: Well, the interesting thing there is like like your business partners,

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Speaker 3: but then at the end of the day. His book

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Speaker 3: is called The Fight for the Soul of you know, Football, Right,

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Speaker 3: So it's sort of they are going against each other

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Speaker 3: in a way. So I'm curious from his perspective of

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Speaker 3: what he talked about going against.

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Speaker 2: Them and what it was like.

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Speaker 3: Did he feel like they actually had a fight the

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Speaker 3: power Because the NFL and the owners hold so much power.

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Speaker 2: It's a great question.

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Speaker 10: I mean, listen, I think and this is where again

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Speaker 10: I'm just like always be selling my own show. But

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Speaker 10: you know, it is one thing we get into a

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Speaker 10: lot on the deal. Is this notion of the modern

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Speaker 10: athlete is in an entirely different position than he or

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Speaker 10: she was in you know, ten twenty, certainly thirty or

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Speaker 10: forty years ago. I do think the NFL and d

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Speaker 10: talks a bit about this has had to get religion

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Speaker 10: around how important the players are at the end of

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Speaker 10: the day, how important their safety is, how important their

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Speaker 10: well being is, how important their financial wellbeing is. Because

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Speaker 10: you know, at the end of the day, there is

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Speaker 10: no game, there is no NFL, they still have.

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Speaker 3: Less power than like the NBA, true than even the

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Speaker 3: MLB stars probably do.

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Speaker 10: And I think, yeah, that's that would be an interesting debate.

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Speaker 10: I think the NBA is probably number one in terms

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Speaker 10: of the UH in terms of the athlete power.

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Speaker 2: I do think the NFL.

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Speaker 10: I think what d would say is the NFL has

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Speaker 10: definitely made strides over the past call it five to

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Speaker 10: ten years, certainly further along than they were. But part

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Speaker 10: of that has been forced. And I think you bring

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Speaker 10: up a really good point, VP. Part of that has

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Speaker 10: been forced by what they see in the NBA. You

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Speaker 10: know that the NBA has had I think the NBA

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Speaker 10: players probably would say they've had a friendlier relationship with

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Speaker 10: Adam Silver than maybe the NFL players have had with

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Speaker 10: Roger Goodell. I don't want to put worth anybody's mouth,

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Speaker 10: but I think that's probably fair.

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Speaker 9: Well, Jason, you know I have to ask you this, right,

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Speaker 9: I mean the Morris served as the NFL Player Association's

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Speaker 9: executive director for fourteen years, from two thousand and nine

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Speaker 9: to twenty twenty three, so in that time he oversaw

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Speaker 9: the twenty eleven NFL in lockout, the subsequent CBA negotiations

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Speaker 9: Deflate Gate. He was also involved in the negotiations for

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Speaker 9: a ct settlement for concussion related injury. Right, and you

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Speaker 9: talk about players well being and health, and given what

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Speaker 9: just happened here in New York City last month, I'm

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Speaker 9: just curious and maybe you didn't acknowledge it there, but

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Speaker 9: you know, during during your conversation, but would you, taking

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Speaker 9: a step back thing, think that the Morris was was

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Speaker 9: really truly focused on that at the time when that

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Speaker 9: agreement was settled, because you know, you look back and

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Speaker 9: you know, people have argued that the money just really

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Speaker 9: doesn't do service for the families and the people involved.

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Speaker 10: I mean, I don't want to put words into his mouth.

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Speaker 10: I do think safety has been at the forefront of

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Speaker 10: just about every conversation for anyone who's representing the players.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 10: I think it's not controversial to say it has been

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Speaker 10: one of the sort of stiffest fights between, you know,

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Speaker 10: among the league, the owners and the players, and is continuing.

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Speaker 9: I mean, the shooter wasn't even an NFL player, So

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Speaker 9: what are we really talking about. But nevertheless, the fact

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Speaker 9: that that's where you know, whether shoot arrived, it'syes's it's

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Speaker 9: just an amazing thing. And look, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 9: I guess you know, I just you know, we got

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Speaker 9: you here. I got to ask you what's the Morris

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Speaker 9: doing now? You know, what's he into? What's his life

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Speaker 9: look like? I mean, you know, what does he what

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Speaker 9: does he think about when he's lying in bed at night,

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Speaker 9: What does he look like in the morning.

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Speaker 10: Well, I think he's relieved that he's not in this

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Speaker 10: job anymore, and you know there's there call. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 10: I mean, obviously there's been a lot that's happened subsequently

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Speaker 10: as well, with his success or his successor, you know,

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Speaker 10: resigning under a lot of pressure Lloyd Howell over a

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Speaker 10: conflict that that he had being associated or being an

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Speaker 10: employee or or a an advisor to the Carlile Group, which,

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Speaker 10: as you know, is one of the firms that has

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Speaker 10: been proved to buy approved to buy stakes in NFL teams.

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Speaker 2: He resigned under some pressure.

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Speaker 10: Our colleagues at ESPN have done an incredible job, the

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Speaker 10: investigative unit, you know, really uncovering a lot of what

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Speaker 10: was going on, not just with that, with that association

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Speaker 10: that Howell had with Carloiu Group, with some other indiscretions

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Speaker 10: shall we say that he had that he had along

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Speaker 10: the way, they've named an interim director David White. There

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Speaker 10: wash there were some reports that they might bring d

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Speaker 10: back in on an intern basis. Uh he I don't

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Speaker 10: know whether he officially declined that but he he.

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Speaker 9: I'm checking Pabo towards finds out he did.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, talk about someone else who's done an incredible job

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Speaker 10: on that story. You know, the reality is is that

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Speaker 10: we I think I speak for Alex when I say this.

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Speaker 10: We definitely got a sense from d that he is

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Speaker 10: glad to not be in the job. He's glad that

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Speaker 10: he did it, but the sort of what it took

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Speaker 10: out of him was a lot, and so I think he's,

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Speaker 10: you know, he's trying his next course, figuring out what

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Speaker 10: he what he wants to do next. I think writing

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Speaker 10: this book was a real process of a process of

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Speaker 10: processing and in a lot of ways, you know, sort

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Speaker 10: of what he went through and some of the things

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Speaker 10: that he did.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting that they would even or there would

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Speaker 3: be reports that they consider it because is the book

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Speaker 3: not a burn it.

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Speaker 11: To the ground type of thing?

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Speaker 3: Was there? What was the most shocking thing about it?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it was.

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Speaker 10: I mean, you know, Damien said, Damian mentioned a couple

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Speaker 10: of different things, you know, calling out players, you know,

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Speaker 10: talking about negotiations that happened. I do think it's an

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Speaker 10: interesting question, you know, would would they actually go back

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Speaker 10: to someone who basically just like aired a little bit

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Speaker 10: of dirty laundry, maybe more than a little bit.

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Speaker 2: You know. I think that.

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Speaker 10: It's all true, it's all honest, and and I think,

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Speaker 10: you know, one of the things that always came through

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Speaker 10: about d you know, having known him a little bit

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Speaker 10: before and Alex and I agree on this, and then

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Speaker 10: having had this conversation with him for the show, he

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Speaker 10: is who he is. And so I don't think anybody

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Speaker 10: in the NFL who's reading this book is shocked by

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Speaker 10: what he said, because they knew he was going to

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Speaker 10: say it. And I do think that's what made him

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Speaker 10: such a powerful advocate when he had the PA job,

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Speaker 10: was that he he was going there and and uh,

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Speaker 10: and that's part of his I think it's not just

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Speaker 10: part of his charm.

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Speaker 2: I think it's part of his effectiveness.

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Speaker 3: Our thanks to Bloomberg Original's chief correspondent Jason Kelly for

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Speaker 3: joining us today catch the latest episode of his show

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Speaker 3: The Deal with Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly, featuring former

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Speaker 3: NFLPA executive director de Morris Smith. You can listen to

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Speaker 3: the full episode on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you get

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Speaker 3: your podcasts. Coming up. Ripping Wax with the owner of

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Speaker 3: sports memorabilia and collectible's company Bleeker Trading, or Damien Sassaur.

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Speaker 3: I'm Vanessa Perdomo. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 3: Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 9: This is the.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money

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Speaker 3: issues in the world of sports. I'm Vanessa Perdomo alongside

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Speaker 3: Damien Sassaur. Michael Barr will be back next week. The

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Speaker 3: National Sports Collector's Convention wrapped up its event last weekend

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Speaker 3: in Rosemont, Illinois, and here to chat about the boom

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Speaker 3: and trading cards and more is the owner of Bleaker Trading,

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Speaker 3: Matt Winklreed. Matt, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business to Sports.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here,

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Speaker 4: all right.

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Speaker 9: The market for collectiles, specifically sports trading cards is huge

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Speaker 9: and apparently rising. I mean the numbers I'm looking at

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Speaker 9: right now, it's approximately fourteen billion dollars in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 9: but by you know, twenty thirty two, forty nine billion dollars,

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Speaker 9: that's what the market value.

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Speaker 4: That is unbelievable.

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Speaker 9: Talk to us about that growth and how Bleaker Trading

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Speaker 9: this positioned to get involved.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean it's really exciting to see what's going

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Speaker 5: on in the hobby. It's you know, the industry is

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Speaker 5: having a moment right when you look at what the

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Speaker 5: sports industry is doing with the media rights deals and

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Speaker 5: evaluations of teams. There is a tremendous amount of growth

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Speaker 5: happening in the hobby because there's it's direct link to

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Speaker 5: pop and how people follow sports or follow Pokemon followed

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Speaker 5: like what they.

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Speaker 4: Love to collect. So there's this great, great momentum in

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Speaker 4: the hobby in terms of how people are engaging with it.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's interesting is I feel like I

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Speaker 3: hear about it now a lot more, you know, I mean, like,

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Speaker 3: as we were talking about it's growing right now, here

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Speaker 3: about it a lot more than I feel like I have.

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Speaker 3: Was there like a lull in the sort of like

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Speaker 3: digital age that people stopped collecting for a while and

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Speaker 3: did something kind of bring it back to this sense

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Speaker 3: of popular ability.

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Speaker 4: I think what brought it back obviously was COVID.

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Speaker 5: Right everyone was stuck at home trying to figure out

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Speaker 5: what to do with themselves, and people pulling out their

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Speaker 5: old old binders.

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Speaker 4: Seeing oh my god, I have these old Pokemon cards.

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Speaker 4: Let's let's see what I can do with them really

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Speaker 4: got people back into the hobby. But in terms of like.

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Speaker 5: The lull, I would say from just my own personal experience,

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Speaker 5: I definitely took a lull for like fifteen years from

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Speaker 5: when I was in middle school going into high school

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Speaker 5: and ultimately got back and got back into it last

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Speaker 5: year and then became a customer of Bleaker.

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Speaker 3: So is there a like age then gap, like it's

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Speaker 3: kids and then like adults.

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Speaker 5: I think it varies from person to person, but like

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Speaker 5: our demographic at our shop ranges from ten year olds

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Speaker 5: to seventy year olds.

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Speaker 9: So it's interesting because when I grew up, you know,

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Speaker 9: it was the chase for you know, the Don Mattingly

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Speaker 9: rookie card, you know, or you know, and his fleet.

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Speaker 9: You wanted the fleet, you don't want the tops. And

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Speaker 9: then it was like you know, Mark McGuire and Wade

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Speaker 9: Bogs and you know, I guess Tim Vanessa's point, you know,

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Speaker 9: it did. We did have a lull, and I just

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Speaker 9: I'm curious. You know, you guys are both a little

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Speaker 9: bit younger than me. Pokemon trading cards. Is that kind

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Speaker 9: of like your generation, Like, was that a thing for y'all?

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Speaker 9: Because I remember my kids, you know, sweating that stuff,

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Speaker 9: and I wonder if that kind of set the stage

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Speaker 9: for this comeback in the industry.

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Speaker 5: I mean for me, I was always a collector of

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Speaker 5: Pokemon for sure. In terms of my age demographic, I

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Speaker 5: would say it was a combination of you know, the

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Speaker 5: Michael Jordan era and the Pokemon.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 4: The Pokemon craze was just absolutely outrageous.

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Speaker 5: To my mom would always go wait at our local

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Speaker 5: toy store for packs, and she would call the toy

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Speaker 5: store to make sure, hey, keep a couple of a

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Speaker 5: side from me. But I would say Pokemon obviously had

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Speaker 5: this incredible run during the nineties early two thousands, but

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Speaker 5: sports cards really stayed true to what they were.

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Speaker 3: But the interesting thing there, when we're talking about the

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Speaker 3: difference between Pokemon and sports trading cards. I was talking

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Speaker 3: to the Piece Say president earlier this year, Ryan Hodge

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Speaker 3: about it, and he said that even though trading sports

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Speaker 3: trading cards are getting a bigger share of the market,

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Speaker 3: Pokemon still is dominating the space absolutely.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely the same with our store too, right, we would say,

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Speaker 5: when you look at our sales.

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Speaker 4: Sixty percent of our sales our Pokemon TCG products.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's insane, like people really want it people, And

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Speaker 5: I think there's a nostalgia aspect to it, right at

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Speaker 5: least for me, Every time I opened a Pokemon pack,

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Speaker 5: I go back in time to when I was ten

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Speaker 5: years old, waking up in the morning on my birthday,

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Speaker 5: my mom having every single Pokemon pack she could possibly

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Speaker 5: get her hands on, and just ripping it and seeing

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Speaker 5: what I got.

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Speaker 3: Is there still that same value to it at auction

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Speaker 3: and things like that for Pokemon that there is for

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Speaker 3: sports memorabilia?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely? Absolutely.

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Speaker 5: I think the inherent value of the TCG products right

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Speaker 5: now is astronomically higher than it was ten years ago.

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Speaker 9: All right, Matt, you got to answer this one for me, right,

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Speaker 9: I mean, I've seen these, I guess these memes, these

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Speaker 9: you know, tiktoks whatever, these kids opening old decks of cards,

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Speaker 9: and it is red, red hot, And you know, I

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Speaker 9: think about that, and I think about bleaker trading, and

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Speaker 9: specifically the name is bleaker trading. You know, you're facilitating

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Speaker 9: the movement of all these sports cards with collectibles, et cetera.

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Speaker 9: Do you take any inventory I mean like in your

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Speaker 9: I mean, do you have to take inventory to be

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Speaker 9: I guess a market maker, a trader of sports cards

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Speaker 9: or are you just connecting people like you know where

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Speaker 9: that you know nineteen fifty two tops Rookie Mickey Mantle

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Speaker 9: card is hiding you know you can help another investor

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Speaker 9: maybe you know, bit on it or get to it.

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Speaker 9: I mean, how do you guys work?

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Speaker 5: Well, So we're primarily a retail shop, but we're also

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Speaker 5: more of an event space, and our mantra is we're

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Speaker 5: not just a card shop. We're a hospitality business. So

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Speaker 5: we're not helping you just find those cards. We're creating

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Speaker 5: a community around the hobby space and I think that's

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Speaker 5: what our bread and butter is right. We want people

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Speaker 5: to come hang out the shop, rip see what they get,

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Speaker 5: and if they get that they pull a big card,

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Speaker 5: they can either sell it to us or they can

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Speaker 5: grade it.

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Speaker 4: They can how would you call it ripping?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Rip, yes, so ripping wax is what they call it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's industry, Tom.

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Speaker 9: I wonder what the gum in some of those packs still,

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Speaker 9: by the way, it's still in in our junk wax

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Speaker 9: area we have we have like nineteen eighty nine Tops

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Speaker 9: Tops packs still with the gum in there.

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Speaker 5: I don't advise to eat it, but it's still in there.

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Speaker 5: It's like it's like going back in time. It's really amazing.

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Speaker 5: But like ripping wax comes from back in the day,

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Speaker 5: those trading cards were wrapped in wax paper, so you

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Speaker 5: had to rip that open, and that's why it's called

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Speaker 5: ripping wax.

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Speaker 9: I would always keep them protected. In mind some of

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Speaker 9: these cards, I mean the numbers I'm seeing million dollars,

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Speaker 9: two million dollars, three million dollar Michael Jordan card. I

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Speaker 9: mean you can't keep that in your house, can you.

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Speaker 9: I mean, like do you provide security and like safe

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Speaker 9: I guess, I mean like people could come and see

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Speaker 9: it under glass.

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Speaker 5: I mean that's like it's like cards. Yeah, so cards

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Speaker 5: that we own are in our lock, show case or

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Speaker 5: in our safe. But in terms of like high value

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Speaker 5: cards like that, like the gem Mint ten nineteen fifty

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Speaker 5: two Mantle is held at either I forget which vault

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Speaker 5: it's at, but it's in a vault. So there are

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Speaker 5: companies that have vaulting services to where you can keep

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Speaker 5: those higher end items so you don't keep them in

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Speaker 5: your house. But I usually like to collect keep my

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Speaker 5: cards in my house because I just like I like

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Speaker 5: looking at them.

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Speaker 4: I'm holding them, like that's what I would be.

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Speaker 3: As we're talking about like these million dollar cards and

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Speaker 3: things like that. Caitlin Clark's rookie card just sold for

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Speaker 3: six hundred and sixty thousand dollars a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: and that went up from Damian three hundred and sixty

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Speaker 3: six thousand four months ago. Okay, so are we going

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Speaker 3: to see one of her card sell for a million

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Speaker 3: dollars this year? Do you think?

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Speaker 4: I'd like to hope.

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Speaker 5: So, I think it depends on the card obviously, I

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Speaker 5: mean her that card was the fall.

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Speaker 9: Depends on how the fever doing the playoffs, if they

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Speaker 9: make the playoffs.

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Speaker 5: Right, But it's also her, her fandom and her and

440
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 5: her popularity, right like that also is a driver of

441
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 5: the market. But you know her that that six hundred

442
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 5: and sixty thousand dollars card is her flawless shield and

443
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 5: that is like the coveted card that you're looking for

444
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 5: when you're opening that product. Right the uh, the Michael

445
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 5: Jordan Kobe that is on auction right now, that has

446
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 5: the the NBA the NBA shield on it. So it's

447
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 5: one of those things where it is the coveted card.

448
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 5: I don't, I don't I think that we can see

449
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 5: a Kate and Clargo for a million, if not this year.

450
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 4: Next year.

451
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 9: Well let me let me rid riddle me this. I mean,

452
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 9: how much of that increase, in your opinion, is you know,

453
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 9: due to the you know, the burgeoning popularity of the

454
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 9: w n b A itself, and how much of that

455
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 9: is really people thinking that, you know, Caitlin Clark is

456
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 9: just head and shoulders Michael Jordan above the rest.

457
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 4: Personally, I think it's a combination of both, combination of both.

458
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 9: I mean, I mean that's a huge you're right, that's

459
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 9: a doubling in what four months. I mean, that's a

460
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 9: pretty you know, you don't see that every.

461
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 4: Day of the week.

462
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 9: I guess it is it scarcity a supply, I mean

463
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 9: it's a one of one, yeah, so like it's there's

464
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 9: only one out there, right.

465
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 5: So, but you look at the popularity popularity of these athletes,

466
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 5: so you know what they do on the field, but

467
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 5: also what they do off the field, and that their

468
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 5: engagement in in the hobby or in industry, what they're

469
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 5: doing from a business perspective, like there is inherent there's

470
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 5: tracking of like what they're doing that that is driving

471
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 5: their popularity in the value of their cards.

472
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 3: And as we're talking about that, and obviously have to

473
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 3: note that it is the most the highest selling women's

474
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 3: card of all time, women's athlete card of all time.

475
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 3: Have you seen, you know, the kids or whoever's coming

476
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 3: into your store getting really into those WNBA packs as

477
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: well getting excited for.

478
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: My god, yes, for everyone's car. We can't keep WNBA

479
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 4: in our shelves. It's awesome.

480
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I have a camera Brinks Auto of my

481
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 5: own in my collection and it's one of my favorite cards, honestly.

482
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

483
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 9: Well, now, my I mean you just so, Bleaker Trading

484
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 9: was around before you got involved, right, yes, So how'd

485
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 9: you get how'd you find them? How did you get

486
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 9: affiliated with the company? And what did you see in

487
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 9: that company that made you want to become an you know,

488
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 9: an equity shareholder.

489
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 4: So it's funny.

490
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 5: I got introduced to the company through my sibling. Actually,

491
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 5: I was trying to get back into the hobby and

492
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 5: my sibling texted me, was like, go check out the shop.

493
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 4: Bleaker trading, So.

494
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 5: Of course I go that day and bought my first

495
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 5: booster box in fifteen years, and immediately fell in love

496
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 5: with the shop, not just because it had access to cards,

497
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: but because I felt like I was part of a community.

498
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 5: Like I instantly felt welcome back into a hobby that

499
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 5: was very, very overwhelming to get back into, and I

500
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 5: felt at home. And that's our mantra right where collectors

501
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 5: call home. What I saw from the business was an

502
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 5: opportunity not just to be a car shop, but to

503
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 5: be a market mover in the in the in the space.

504
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 5: We are community driven and we try to do things

505
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 5: differently than everybody else.

506
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 9: So are you trying to bring the West Village to

507
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 9: other cities across our country? Is that? Is that the vibe,

508
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 9: the feeling you get, You're trying to bring that West

509
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 9: Village kind of kitchy feel your comic.

510
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 5: Books and sports cards to I'm assuming you're asking about expansion.

511
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 9: Everything is on the task experience, I mean, but yes, yes,

512
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 9: and that's what I'm looking for. I think that is amazing.

513
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 9: If that's indeed why you what you see in the

514
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 9: vision you have for this company and taking things forward,

515
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 9: I mean, that is just awesome if you can bring

516
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 9: that to places like Miami in LA and I mean,

517
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 9: god knows those cities can I.

518
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 5: Mean, as a new owner, I'm coming in not just

519
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 5: to not to make changes, but to elevate what we

520
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 5: currently do best.

521
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: And that is our vibe and our feeling and who

522
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 4: we are as a company.

523
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: And what do you think though, like as a retail space,

524
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: what is your place in the market in terms of

525
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: what can you offer and what kind of you know,

526
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 3: share in the space do you really have in terms

527
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: of is it just somewhere people like have the community

528
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: buy cards or anything like that, or is it something

529
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: where you can actually build this empire, build business for

530
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 3: yourself in the space.

531
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 4: I think how we fit into the ecosystem.

532
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 5: You know when you go to a lot of card

533
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 5: shops and you know, everyone has their own their own methodology,

534
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 5: their own mantra of like how they want their shop

535
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 5: to be. But like what we do differently is you know,

536
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: we try to make sure everyone feels welcome, whether you're

537
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 5: a veteran collector or a new collector. Like we try

538
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 5: to make sure that there's something there for everyone, whether it's.

539
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 11: Or celebrity or Jos or celebrity.

540
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: Jo John's heard this.

541
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 4: Uh, and we can get into that if you want to.

542
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 5: No, we want to make sure that little Jimmy when

543
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 5: he's buying a Pokemon pack of his sister is not

544
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 5: into collecting, but like wants something as well. She sees

545
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 5: a pack of ly and Stitch, or she sees a

546
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 5: Star Wars pack, like she can she can also engage

547
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 5: in the hobby. So our mission is to also drive,

548
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 5: you know, create a space for current collectors, but also

549
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 5: reach out to people that are interested in the hobby

550
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 5: that want to get in.

551
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 11: It's interesting.

552
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: I was when I was speaking to Ryan earlier this year,

553
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: the PCA president. He was telling me this idea of

554
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: trading cards in the space being tariff proof, almost like

555
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: this this safe where place where people are keeping their

556
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 3: money right now in the industry. Are you seeing? That

557
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 3: did make you a spike this year in.

558
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 5: That I think it's now really become an alternative asset

559
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 5: class to to put your money because like the values

560
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 5: can can hold pretty strong.

561
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 4: I agree with that. Yeah, you guys got to come

562
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 4: to the shop.

563
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: I will next time. Joe Jones is there, please let

564
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 3: me know before the crowd.

565
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 4: An excuse to hand down to the last. You have

566
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: my number now, so just assume me a tax I'll

567
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 4: make sure you get invited.

568
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: Our thanks to Matt weinkel Reid for joining us. He's

569
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: owner and head of operations for Blacker Trading. Up next,

570
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: the CEO of Professional triath Leates Organization Sam Renoff on

571
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: supporting the body and interest of professional endurance athletes, or

572
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: Damien Sassaur.

573
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 11: I'm Vanessa Perdomo.

574
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 3: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg

575
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: Radio around the world.

576
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

577
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports,

578
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: where we explore the big money issues in the world

579
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: of sports. I'm Vanessa Perdomo along with Damien Sassaur Michael

580
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: barr is off this week. The Professional Triathletes Organization or

581
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: PTO is an organization that represents non drafting professional triathletes.

582
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: It is owned by athletes looking to take the sport

583
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 3: of triathlon to the next level, and it recently got

584
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: a big investment to help it do just that. Joining

585
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 3: us now to talk more about the recent investment and

586
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: more is PTO founding Chief Executive Officer Sam Renoff, Sam,

587
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

588
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 6: Good morning, it's great to be here.

589
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 12: You are the founder and CEO of the Pro Triathletes Organization.

590
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 12: Now what gave you the idea to start the T

591
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 12: one hundred Triathlon World Tour?

592
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 7: So I was the founding CEO of the idea, as

593
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 7: is so often the case in sports, actually came from

594
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 7: the athletes themselves. So they they were on the verge

595
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 7: of unionizing the professional triathletes. They got together and said, look,

596
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 7: our sport has grown phenomenally since it got into the

597
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 7: Olympic Games in two thousand, but maybe the you know,

598
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 7: the economics and the commercial side not quite living up

599
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 7: to his potential. And so we together formed the PTO

600
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 7: in the mirroring, you know, the PGA Tour and what

601
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 7: they did in the sixties and the ATP and the

602
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 7: in tennis in the eighties. So that's how it all

603
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 7: came together. It was started by the athletes for the athletes.

604
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 11: So it's similar to the PDA Tour. So is this

605
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 11: this is sort of a league for try athletes? Is

606
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 11: that kind of how?

607
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 7: Well, yes, that's like our business model is what we've created.

608
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 7: Were the players Association to use more of the sort

609
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 7: of the general term on behalf of all professional triathletes

610
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 7: out there, and rather than just unionizing and going and

611
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 7: sort of complaining to other events saying, hey, pay us more,

612
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 7: we thought that let's own our own economic destiny. Let's

613
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 7: raise venture capital and go and create our own league.

614
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 7: And that's exactly what we've done with a T one

615
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 7: hundred triathlon World Tour that we launched last year. So

616
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 7: we raised money a couple of years ago. We launched

617
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 7: in the middle of COVID. We were very fortunate to

618
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 7: found to find, excuse me, an incredible investor in Sir

619
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 7: Michael Morritz of Sequoia Capital, and he really recognized the

620
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 7: potential in triathlon and what we were doing.

621
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 6: And as Baptist on our journey.

622
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 9: So far, Sam, take us through what that tour looks like.

623
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 9: I'm seeing nine is it? Nine cities across the world.

624
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 9: I mean, places like Dubai and Vancouver, Cutter you know, Valencia, Spain,

625
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 9: you know, and you know, for me, I mean, I'm

626
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 9: really interested in what these weekends look like because it

627
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 9: really isn't just about the triathlon, is it. I Mean,

628
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 9: there are you know, activities for all levels of amateur

629
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 9: athletes to get involved.

630
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 2: Now exactly right.

631
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 7: So these are mass participation festivals across swimming, cycling, and running,

632
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 7: three of the most participated sports in the world, and

633
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 7: you bring that all together with the triathlon as the

634
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 7: pinnacle moment. And so yeah, like you said, nine locations

635
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 7: this year with the T one hundred Tour. The investment

636
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 7: logic behind so Michael's investment on our rounds later is

637
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 7: that triathlon has one of the most, if not the

638
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 7: most valuable demographics in sport. It's almost become cliche to

639
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 7: be a triathlete, right, It's that super higher achiever. It's

640
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 7: the CEO of if IIV statistic forty four percent of

641
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 7: triathletes influence of financial decision in their business. And so

642
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 7: it's a really valuable audience. But like many nascent niche sports,

643
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 7: that audience was fragmented by the lack of cohesive products.

644
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 7: So you know, we got the Olympics every four years,

645
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 7: but outside of that, the audience is fragmented across thousands

646
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 7: of racists. So what we have done is create a

647
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 7: global tour that has the very best professional triathletes racing

648
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 7: head to head in a season long competition, you know,

649
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 7: copying Formula one or learning from Formula one and many

650
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 7: of the sports out there, and using that to create

651
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 7: a marketing platform to bring that incredibly valuable audience together

652
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 7: and ultimately monetize.

653
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 9: It and for those in our audience. Just so, Michael Moritz,

654
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 9: I mean we're talking about a top venture capitalist here.

655
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 9: He's a board member at Google. He's a quite a capital.

656
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 9: I think he used to be the San Francisco Bureau

657
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 9: treece of time. And you know what's interesting to me

658
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 9: is in this latest round Surge Sports Investments. I mean Serge,

659
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 9: that's the pif, that's Saudi Arabia. I mean they're already

660
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 9: invested in a number of other you know, the Professional

661
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 9: Fighters League for example, in seven a side football. You

662
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 9: know what makes this investment different than those? Why were

663
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 9: they so interested in getting involved here?

664
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, so look, we were thrilled to have investor, of

665
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 7: course some Michael in the beginning, and then the caliber

666
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 7: of Surge and all these far more better known sports

667
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 7: than like little triathlon if we call it what it is.

668
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 7: But why Surge and the other investors that have joined

669
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 7: in this round, I think a couple of different reasons,

670
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 7: But It really goes back to as I said beforehand,

671
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 7: and if I use some Michael as the example, he

672
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 7: didn't invest as a passion project. He's not a triathlete.

673
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 7: It's not like one of these billionaires who liked their

674
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 7: sport and sort of just goes and puts money into it.

675
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 7: He invested because of a highly valuable but fragmented audience,

676
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 7: and if you had a different technological approach to it,

677
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 7: you could monetize it. And that's really what we've been

678
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 7: doing the last few years. Now forward fast forward to

679
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 7: today in this round we've just announced with Search coming

680
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 7: on board. I mean it's a financial decision by Surgeon.

681
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 7: They see the investment potential of an undercommercialized sport. But

682
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 7: part of their mandate also is to drive the Vision

683
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 7: twenty thirty in the Kingdom, and part of that is

684
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 7: about getting more participation. And so what better way to

685
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 7: get Saudi's off the couch and doing sport than swimming,

686
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 7: cycling and running the three sports of triathlon.

687
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 12: Now, the structure of the T one hundred breakdown for

688
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 12: us for those who aren't familiar with the scoring and

689
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 12: the cash money that you can win in this sport.

690
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, so look this was, as we said before, an

691
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 7: undercommercialized sport. And although we have some of the greatest

692
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 7: athletes on the planet, the competing triathleon, some of our

693
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 7: athletes will even compete in the single discipline, so like

694
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 7: we have professional traat to ride in the Tour de

695
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 7: France and in professional cycling, we have run the triathletes

696
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 7: who run and they can qualify in the finals of

697
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 7: their athletics championship. So it's really really top caliber athletic performance.

698
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 7: But like many Olympic sports, as I said before, relatively

699
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 7: under commercialized. So we've sort to fixed that with a

700
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 7: new product and put millions of dollars of prize money

701
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 7: in the line to incentivize the best athletes to come

702
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 7: and compete head to head, which ultimately is fundamental to

703
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 7: the best sport. I mean, you're not going to take

704
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 7: the sport to the next step unless as fans, we

705
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 7: can see the best athletes competing head to head in

706
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 7: iconic locations as you referenced earlier. So we're in London,

707
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 7: we're in Singapore, in Dubai, we're in Vancouver, really exciting

708
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 7: locations that showcase the sport really copying, you know, as

709
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 7: I said, Formula one and looking at other.

710
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 6: Sort of more mature sports.

711
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 7: Now, the big difference of course to Formula one is

712
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 7: that you can't rock up to Silverstone and then get

713
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 7: on the racetrack the next day as an amateur, and

714
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 7: that's something unique in triathon, where we will have thousands

715
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 7: of participants of all different ages who get to they

716
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 7: can come and watch the professionals race and then go

717
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 7: and compete themselves the next day on the same course.

718
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 7: In fact, we've got the T one hundred London coming

719
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 7: up in just over a week's time and we'll have

720
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 7: over six thousand amateur athletes jumping in the Docklands and

721
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 7: then riding into central London.

722
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 12: And athletes through a thirty five points first place to

723
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 12: one point for twentieth place. I'm good at eating, sleeping

724
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 12: and walking, so that's probably how would get that one

725
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 12: point if I'm lucky.

726
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 8: Well.

727
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 7: Look, one of the reasons why the events include from

728
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 7: an amateur perspective at least swimming, cycling and running is

729
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 7: exactly that not everyone is ready to take on the

730
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 7: challenge of an endurance event like a triathlon, but maybe

731
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 7: a five kilometer run, you know, that's a bit more

732
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 7: accessible in Singapore, we had over five thousand people come

733
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 7: and to a five kilometer run at the end of

734
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 7: the evening of the event, and it created a really

735
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 7: party atmosphere.

736
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 11: It's really interesting, you know, when you're talking about the

737
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 11: whole participation aspect of it. And I know I've talked

738
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 11: to a lot of investors in this space, in these

739
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 11: nascent leagues and things like that, and they love the

740
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 11: idea of the the large participation numbers and the high

741
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 11: participation numbers, but sometimes it doesn't translate for viewership for

742
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 11: people who like to participate but then don't really watch

743
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 11: on TV or you know, go out. So is the

744
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 11: business model really getting.

745
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 3: People to participate in the league as well, more so

746
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: than you know, watching them on TV or anything like that.

747
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 6: So you're exactly right.

748
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 7: One of the things of this round that has attracted

749
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 7: the investors we have, and so that's Surge, but also

750
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 7: Cardiella and Vron so like us private equity firms, is

751
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 7: they were attracted to our model being media agnostic. So

752
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 7: most challenger brands and most sports very heavily reliant on

753
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 7: media rights to monetize their properties. But of course, as

754
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 7: we all know, to space, that's going for a lot

755
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 7: of disruption at the moment. We've built a business model

756
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 7: that requires media. It's very important and Warner Brothers Discovery

757
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 7: was an early shareholder in the PTO, but we're not

758
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 7: after media rights at least in the short term. Like

759
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 7: our business model is around monetizing that participation, as you say,

760
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 7: directly in the events themselves. So media for us is

761
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 7: a flywheel. We're live on TV in one hundred and

762
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 7: ninety countries, we have twenty five broadcast partners. We did

763
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 7: close to half a billion views on social media last year,

764
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 7: and so it's fantastic content. But the content isn't monetized directly.

765
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 7: It's about driving attendance and participation in those events.

766
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 9: Sam, I know you're based in London, but we on

767
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 9: the show talk about something called the Kaitlin Kark effect

768
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 9: and the impact that you know, one star, one superstar,

769
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 9: what shining superstar can have on a professional sports league

770
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 9: such as WNBA, and talk to us about some of

771
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 9: these triathletes, about their brand recognition, about their star power.

772
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, you're completely right, right. All sports built

773
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: on the backs of the professional tr athletes profiles and

774
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 7: that's the core of the PTO. It's why we were

775
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 7: set up as the Professional Trathletes Organization, a body for

776
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 7: the athletes promoting them. But they were lacking, you know,

777
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 7: these incredible athletes from an athletic perspective, but lacking a

778
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 7: commercial platform to make money.

779
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 6: In fact, when we came along.

780
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 7: Before we came along, I should say, you could finish

781
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 7: top five in the World Championships and you wouldn't make

782
00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 7: enough money to.

783
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 6: Cover the cost of your trip.

784
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 7: So what we're really doing is coming along and bringing

785
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 7: the economics, bringing the hosting fees, bringing the corporate sponsorship

786
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 7: into the space so these these athletes can focus on

787
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 7: being the very best that they are and you know,

788
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 7: the commercial journey goes from that.

789
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 12: I know we are fans and we cheer not just

790
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 12: for the front runners, but there's that person in last place.

791
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 12: And the New York Times recently wrote about Sam Long.

792
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 12: He is very good in running and cycling, swimming not

793
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 12: so much. What can you tell us more about Sam Long?

794
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 12: Because this man is near and dear to my heart. Yeah.

795
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 7: So Sam is such a wonderful character and he's brought

796
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 7: such an energy to the sport. And we should point

797
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 7: out when we say he's not a good swimmer, he's

798
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 7: still faster than you know, ninety nine point nine.

799
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 6: Percent of the population.

800
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 7: Certainly from from a racing perspective, he brings such excitement

801
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 7: for us because because we know as viewers, Sam's going

802
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 7: to come out between two men and maybe three or

803
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 7: four minutes down out of the water, and so we're

804
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 7: playing catch up all the way through. And one of

805
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 7: the elements that we've really been seeking to create here

806
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 7: with the PTO is bringing data and biometrics into our

807
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 7: broadcast to make them contextually relevant because frankly, you know,

808
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 7: sport without data, without stats and without times, it's impossible

809
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 7: to watch it. And I would include you know, I've

810
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 7: referenced Formula one a few times. Formula one without statistics

811
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 7: and times would be just cars going around the track

812
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 7: for three hours. That wouldn't be an engaging product. But

813
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 7: if you know that Lando Norris is point nine behind

814
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 7: or point seven or point six, you get pulled into

815
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 7: the journey and the excitement of that race. Look, triathlon

816
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 7: was a sport that just lacked that data to have

817
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 7: the storytelling. And so what we've been doing with the

818
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 7: investment from Sir Michael and Surge and continuing is investing

819
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 7: in biometric devices that we can actually make it contextually

820
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 7: relevant that Sam's three minutes down, now he's two minutes down,

821
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 7: his heart rate is one hundred and eighty, he's pushing,

822
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 7: what's in temperature. And you have all those pieces together

823
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 7: and you can turn what was not really a consumable

824
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 7: broads sport into something that is incredibly engaging because unlike

825
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 7: other sports like motorsport, we can all relate to swimming, cycling, running.

826
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 7: If you switch it on, you see that you understand

827
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 7: what they're doing, but you don't realize how incredibly fast

828
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 7: they're going. And that's what we're really seeking to solve

829
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 7: as we take triathlon into the mainstream.

830
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 12: Sam Renoff founding Chief executive Office here of the Professional

831
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 12: Triathletes Organization and this NIDO event, the T one hundred

832
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 12: Triathlon World Tours.

833
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: Our thanks to Sam Runoff for joining us. He's founding

834
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 3: CEO of the Professional tr Athletes Organization. And that does

835
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: it for this edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

836
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: If you missed any of our conversations today, make sure

837
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: to catch the whole thing on demand on the Bloomberg

838
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: Business of Sports podcast. Find that on Apple, Spotify, and

839
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: anywhere else you get your podcasts. For Damian Sasaur, I'm

840
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: Vanessa Prudemo. Tune in next week for the stories moving

841
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 3: big money in the world of sports. You're listening to

842
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: The Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

843
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 9: Six