Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Book Club, book Club, book Club, book Club book Club.
Speaker 2: It's the Cool Zone Media book Club, the only podcast
Speaker 2: where you don't have to do the reading. And usually
Speaker 2: I say, because I do the reading. But this week
Speaker 2: it's going to be different. This week, instead of reading
Speaker 2: to a guest, I found a guest to read to me.
Speaker 2: I found Jackie milash Hi.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: So, Jackie is the narrator of my upcoming book, The
Speaker 2: Sapling Cage. You've probably heard me talking about for the
Speaker 2: past like six months at least or longer. But I thought,
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be fun to read you all a chapter
Speaker 2: of it? And then I thought, wouldn't it be even
Speaker 2: more fun if you all could listen to the person
Speaker 2: who's going to be doing the reading of it in
Speaker 2: your ears? Because Jackie's narrator of the book, So I
Speaker 2: thought she should come on and read you all some
Speaker 2: of the book.
Speaker 1: Well, hell yeah, I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2: I usually do like a bio of the author, but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do a bio of the author,
Speaker 2: but tell us about you really quickly.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So I'm I'm like, who am I. It's
Speaker 1: one of those things where like as soon as anybody
Speaker 1: asks me a question and I have all the knowledge
Speaker 1: I have just disappears. I'm a voice actor who specializes
Speaker 1: in audiobook narration. I'm based out of the ann Arbor,
Speaker 1: Michigan area, and I also work out a library part
Speaker 1: time as well, and so it's a cool gig. This
Speaker 1: story meant a lot to me because I am transfeminine myself.
Speaker 1: My pronouns are she, they, and so a lot of
Speaker 1: what's like in the text really really resonated with me.
Speaker 1: And so I was thrilled to be able to narrate
Speaker 1: this title, and I'm thrilled to be here to read
Speaker 1: a little piece of it for you guys today.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had nothing to do with the decision making of narrators,
Speaker 2: but I did get to hear the like audition piece
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, no, this is going to work,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be right, thank you. So The Sapling
Speaker 2: Cage is a book that I wrote, and it is
Speaker 2: a crossover, which means it's a YA book that knows
Speaker 2: it's going to be read by adults, which did me
Speaker 2: a lot of good. Well, we'll talk about the book
Speaker 2: more at the end after the reading, but instead it's
Speaker 2: called The Sapling Cage. It comes out September twenty fourth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, in both audiobook and print book form,
Speaker 2: and you can pre order either the print or the audio,
Speaker 2: or both if you're feeling spicy. I don't know why
Speaker 2: that's spicy, but you could do it.
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 2: All right, let's hear this amazing story. I've never had
Speaker 2: anyone read me one of my own things before. I
Speaker 2: suppose that is an unusual sort of sensation and feeling. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: especially because it's like a fantasy world full of weird names.
Speaker 2: But you know, sure it's going to be great. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, all right. One, the alder tree
Speaker 1: was ancient, and its leaves and branches left sunlight dappled
Speaker 1: on the forest floor. It was also dead, and it
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. Everywhere around us the forest was waking
Speaker 1: from winter. Everything was bluebells and white trilliums and new
Speaker 1: buds on branches and bright green leaves. Everything was spring
Speaker 1: except the alder. Its bark was sharp with cold, like
Speaker 1: ice or like stone. Its leaves were gray. I don't
Speaker 1: think trees are supposed to be like that, Blaine said.
Speaker 1: We'd finished our morning work on the communal fields not
Speaker 1: a hundred yards away through the trees. Horses ran in
Speaker 1: the pasture, excited to be outside after so many months
Speaker 1: of snow. I could smell rain in the air. It
Speaker 1: should have been a perfect day. But the alder was dead,
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't have been. Witchcraft. Lane said. That was
Speaker 1: her explanation for everything strange. It couldn't be the witches.
Speaker 1: I said, that was my defense of everything blamed on witchcraft.
Speaker 1: She paced around the tree. It took her several paces
Speaker 1: for every lap. She was half a year younger than me,
Speaker 1: she'd just turned sixteen, but she was the one always
Speaker 1: trying to burn off extra energy. I peered at the
Speaker 1: frost gathered on the alder's bark. I see another one,
Speaker 1: Laine said. She took off, running further into the forest,
Speaker 1: and I caught up with her a ways away. A
Speaker 1: young pine was dead and cold, its needles gone gray.
Speaker 1: One shattered at the touch of my finger. Who else
Speaker 1: but witches, Lane asked, Trees don't turn cold. Only a
Speaker 1: witch could save it. I said, you'll be able to
Speaker 1: save it. Oh hooray, Lane said, sarcastically. It's not that bad.
Speaker 1: I didn't make that deal. I don't think my dead
Speaker 1: mom's promise she'd mean anything. Layne and I started back
Speaker 1: toward the village. Witches get to wear those black skirts, though,
Speaker 1: I said, and curse people and heal people. I'd rather
Speaker 1: be a knight, you know. I'd rather be a knight.
Speaker 1: Why are you arguing with me about this? That was
Speaker 1: a fair question. I thought it over as we walked.
Speaker 1: If I was a girl, I'd pretend to be you
Speaker 1: and go in your place. I'd always wanted to be
Speaker 1: a witch. It's a shame you aren't a girl, Laine said.
Speaker 1: I agreed, not just because of the witch thing. One
Speaker 1: of my earliest memories was being glad that my name
Speaker 1: Laurel was as common for girls as it was for boys.
Speaker 1: Five years back, my mother had given up trying to
Speaker 1: keep me out of her face, powder and paint. Laine
Speaker 1: had always been gamed to trade clothes with me. Those
Speaker 1: were the only two people in town who I talked
Speaker 1: to about how I should have been a girl. I
Speaker 1: had enough social problems already. When I was little, maybe seven,
Speaker 1: I told my friend River to call me a girl
Speaker 1: instead of a boy, and he just punched me right
Speaker 1: then and there, without thinking about it. My mom thought
Speaker 1: my nose was broke and a traveling witch had to
Speaker 1: set it for me. River apologized, and maybe he even
Speaker 1: meant it that he was sorry, but he'd made it
Speaker 1: seem like the whole thing was my fault, like I'd
Speaker 1: scared him or something. So yeah, only my mom and
Speaker 1: Lane knew about the dresses and the paint. If I
Speaker 1: were a witch, though, I could turn the next person
Speaker 1: like River into a goat, or figure out things like
Speaker 1: why those trees were cold. I'll do it anyway, I said,
Speaker 1: as we walked through the fields of flax and barley.
Speaker 1: What I started talking faster so I wouldn't lose my nerve.
Speaker 1: When the coven comes through to take you, I'll tell
Speaker 1: them i'm you, and I'll go off and learn to
Speaker 1: be a witch. You're a boy, Laine said. Girls are
Speaker 1: allowed to be nights, now, why can't boys be witches?
Speaker 1: And besides, it's not my fault I'm a boy. It's
Speaker 1: still true. I can pretend. Lane walked up next to
Speaker 1: me and threw her arms around my shoulders. What if
Speaker 1: you get caught. I won't get caught, I said. Strangers
Speaker 1: always think I'm a girl. Anyway, My mother and I
Speaker 1: ran the stables. There were more popular roads than Southede,
Speaker 1: and there were more prosperous towns than Ledstone on Southeide,
Speaker 1: but we still saw our share of wayfarers. Most were
Speaker 1: on their way to Port Sac to our east, or
Speaker 1: Deadmond Castle to our west, and most of them had horses,
Speaker 1: and most of them stabled with us overnight. We served
Speaker 1: knights and mercenaries and merchants and brigands. And I was
Speaker 1: just reaching an age where grown men took not a
Speaker 1: small amount of interest in trying to figure out my gender.
Speaker 1: I didn't have even a hint of a beard, my
Speaker 1: shoulders were narrow, and I had my mother's sharp features.
Speaker 1: These are witches, though Lane reminded me, they can see
Speaker 1: more than other people can. Were you trying to talk
Speaker 1: me out of it? I asked no. She squeezed me
Speaker 1: tighter against her side as we walked. I'm just worried.
Speaker 1: What will you tell your dads or your mother. I
Speaker 1: won't tell Grell or Jorge anything. My dad's had a
Speaker 1: home all the way in Port Sac. I lived with
Speaker 1: them every autumn for a month or so. When the
Speaker 1: storms kept them on land most of the year. I
Speaker 1: didn't hear from them, and their only contribution to my
Speaker 1: upbringing was the silver they sent my mother when they could. Mom,
Speaker 1: though she'll understand, I love it like I love the Baron,
Speaker 1: my mother said when I told her, that was about
Speaker 1: as close as she came to cursing. She sure didn't
Speaker 1: love Baron, need no one did. She sat in her
Speaker 1: rocking chair, a clay mug of wine in her hand.
Speaker 1: I'd waited until after supper to tell her, because she
Speaker 1: never took news well on an empty stomach. I didn't either,
Speaker 1: come to think of it, she took a long draw
Speaker 1: of the mug. You're old enough to make your own mistakes.
Speaker 1: After that, she didn't say anything at all, which was
Speaker 1: kind of worse than her yelling at me. Really, it
Speaker 1: left me with nothing to do but stand around there
Speaker 1: was only one good chair on the porch of the
Speaker 1: stable house and come to my own conclusions about why
Speaker 1: it was a bad idea. I didn't want to do that,
Speaker 1: I'd made up my so I tried not to linger
Speaker 1: on what the witches might do to me if they
Speaker 1: found out, or what nights sometimes did to witches. I'll
Speaker 1: get to learn magic, I said, real magic. Cauldrons and curses,
Speaker 1: and maybe I'll even learn how to fly. What is
Speaker 1: it that you think witches do? They travel around doing
Speaker 1: good things? I said, they help some people and hurt
Speaker 1: some people, depending on what they deserve. That's what you
Speaker 1: want to do, help some people, hurt other people. Since
Speaker 1: when have you liked hurting people? I don't know, mom,
Speaker 1: since never. I guess it was my turn to grow quiet.
Speaker 1: I'd probably learned that trick from her. The cicadas were
Speaker 1: out and early too, filling the air with their rising
Speaker 1: and falling song. The town drunk said it was going
Speaker 1: to be an irrational year, one of those years where
Speaker 1: the seasons don't do it, there's a host to and
Speaker 1: crops fail. No one paid him over much heed, But
Speaker 1: the cicadas really shouldn't have been out just yet. There's
Speaker 1: no way to disguise yourself, my mom said, breaking the silence,
Speaker 1: not forever. You don't look at now, but you're going
Speaker 1: to grow into a man by then. I bet I'll
Speaker 1: have magic enough to hide it. I said, I won't
Speaker 1: hear the end of it, never, not from Grell. When
Speaker 1: she invoked my birth father's name, I knew that was
Speaker 1: basically the end of it. She'd given up. I was
Speaker 1: my mother's child through and through, and she knew I
Speaker 1: didn't care what Grell thought. I hadn't inherited anything from Grell,
Speaker 1: but skin half a shade darker than my mother's olive.
Speaker 1: This is it, then, she said. She poured the dregs
Speaker 1: of her wine off into the grass, honored the dead,
Speaker 1: as she did with every coup. The cavin is going
Speaker 1: to be by soon enough, and you're going to lie
Speaker 1: to them, and you'll learn to be a witch. Not
Speaker 1: a sailor, not a knight, not another's forbid, a stable master,
Speaker 1: but a witch, my son, a witch. I nodded, grinning.
Speaker 1: She hadn't stopped me. I knew deep in my heart
Speaker 1: that if it was truly a terrible idea, my mother
Speaker 1: would have tried harder to stop me. What's Laine going
Speaker 1: to do while you're off being her? She want to
Speaker 1: learn how to run a stable. She's going to be
Speaker 1: a knight. Of course, she is my mom's side. I
Speaker 1: knew she wasn't happy about me leaving. I knew she
Speaker 1: wanted someone to care about the stables, about Ledstone the
Speaker 1: way she did. But that wasn't me. It wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done anyone any good for me to pretend otherwise. But
Speaker 1: if you want to pretend to care about things, you
Speaker 1: could pretend to care about the advertisers that support the
Speaker 1: pot guests that you run, much like I'm doing right now.
Speaker 3: Here's some ads yang capitalism and rebec.
Speaker 1: Witches don't really keep proper schedules, but most years they
Speaker 1: made their way down southeat around Mother's May, the spring holiday.
Speaker 1: I figured I had about a week to repare myself.
Speaker 1: The witches didn't know Lane by name. They were just
Speaker 1: coming for the daughter of Leona of the Lead, now
Speaker 1: that she'd seen sixteen years. I started sleeping over at
Speaker 1: the Lead manor in case they came at night. The
Speaker 1: house was a decrepit shell, really, the rock walls overgrown
Speaker 1: with vines and half the lumber taken to rot. Laane
Speaker 1: did what she could to maintain it, but she'd live
Speaker 1: there alone for three years. She spent most of her
Speaker 1: days working the communal fields, and hadn't the skills or
Speaker 1: resources for serious repairs. The manner was a shadow of
Speaker 1: its former glory. That manner dead manner. Lane called it
Speaker 1: rhyming the name. A few hundred years ago Lane's ancestors
Speaker 1: had founded the town to mine. Lad then sworn fealty
Speaker 1: to some baroness or baron. Serfs moved in, and those
Speaker 1: who weren't mining took to farming on the communal fields.
Speaker 1: One hundred years back, collectivisation had swept through the Lowlands,
Speaker 1: and the baron had allowed it Rather than lose power completely.
Speaker 1: Lane's family stayed richer than most of the rest of us,
Speaker 1: but only through trade and inheritance. They no longer ruled,
Speaker 1: and they no longer took tax. Only the baron did
Speaker 1: either of those things. By Lane's mother's time, the family
Speaker 1: barely had enough to maintain the ancient manner. The first
Speaker 1: night I spent there waiting for the witches, Lane led
Speaker 1: me up treacherous stairs to her parents' old living quarters.
Speaker 1: We had to pick our way carefully across the sagging
Speaker 1: floor in the lamplight. I'm going to bring this place
Speaker 1: back to glory, Lane said, tugging her shirtsleeve free from
Speaker 1: a protruating nail. I'll be the first night protector Letston's
Speaker 1: hat in fifty years. You really think you'll come back,
Speaker 1: I asked, you won't. I mean I'll visit my mom,
Speaker 1: I said, sometimes we could use a village witch, Lane said,
Speaker 1: Just think of this place with a night protector and
Speaker 1: a village witch. Too much world to see, I said,
Speaker 1: since I'd made up my mind to join the witches,
Speaker 1: I'd spent half my time waking and asleep imagining all
Speaker 1: the things I was off to see and do. We
Speaker 1: stopped before a heavy cherrywood wardrobe set in the corner
Speaker 1: of the master bedroom. Its hinges were faded brass, but
Speaker 1: gold filigrees still gleamed eternally bright along the doorpan. Before
Speaker 1: Lane's mother died, she had always kept us out of
Speaker 1: this room. After Lane's mother died, Lane herself had solemnly
Speaker 1: told me that this wardrobe was off limits. Lane selected
Speaker 1: an iron key hung on a chain from her belt
Speaker 1: and held it aloft so we might appreciate the seriousness
Speaker 1: of the moment. You ready, she asked. I nodded. I
Speaker 1: could scarcely wait. She opened the wardrobe. Black skirts and
Speaker 1: dresses hung from hooks. Stockings woven in intricate patterns lay
Speaker 1: in a pile. Jewelry finely crafted from plain materials, glittered
Speaker 1: beneath the glass lid of an ebony box. I'd studied
Speaker 1: at the loom enough to know the long days it
Speaker 1: took to weave a few yards of flax or wool.
Speaker 1: This was the accumulated wealth of a life. My mother
Speaker 1: left pretty clear instructions for when I left to join
Speaker 1: the Witches. Lane said I was to bring a short dress,
Speaker 1: a long dress, a warm cloak, a winter skirt, and
Speaker 1: three pairs of stockings. So pick out whatever you'd like
Speaker 1: my own dress. I would have my own dress, two
Speaker 1: of them. Even. I spent most of an hour making
Speaker 1: my decision, modeling each garment in front of the mirror
Speaker 1: on the inside door of the wardrobe. Not even Leona
Speaker 1: of the lad had ever owned a smooth glass mirror,
Speaker 1: so my image was distorted. That suited me fine. It
Speaker 1: let me imagine how I ought to look. I let
Speaker 1: my hair down out of its top knot long and
Speaker 1: straight and black. It framed my face well. I'd have
Speaker 1: worn it down all the time if I could. Though
Speaker 1: I was much taller than Lane, I was nearly the
Speaker 1: same size as Leona had been. Most of the dresses
Speaker 1: sat funny across my chest since I had nothing to
Speaker 1: fill them out, and even fewer of them were loose
Speaker 1: enough across the hips to hide the bulge between my legs.
Speaker 1: But in the end I found two that fit me
Speaker 1: just right. Both were high waisted, which made my legs
Speaker 1: look longer and my torso shorter. One linen, one wool.
Speaker 1: When I wore those dresses, I couldn't stop smiling. You're beautiful,
Speaker 1: Lene said, she was smiling too. She thought for a moment,
Speaker 1: then dug through the wardrobe. She pulled out a necklace,
Speaker 1: A black stone pendant hung from a delicate steel chain.
Speaker 1: She held it out to me. No one in town
Speaker 1: had anything so nice. Your mother didn't say anything about
Speaker 1: taking any jewelry, I said, she's dead. Take it as
Speaker 1: I thank you. I took it and put it on.
Speaker 1: It hung just above the low neckline of the long dress,
Speaker 1: the stone cool and comforting against my chest. Despite how
Speaker 1: I was born, I was going to get to be
Speaker 1: a witch, despite how I was born, I was going
Speaker 1: to get to live as a woman. Lane squeezed me.
Speaker 1: She was crying into my neck. Thank you, she whispered.
Speaker 1: Of course I started crying too. I slept in my
Speaker 1: long dress that night. I wanted to get used to
Speaker 1: wearing it, and also I just didn't want to take
Speaker 1: it off. I slept in one of the empty rooms
Speaker 1: in the manner. A windstorm howled outside, and branches cracked
Speaker 1: in the distance. I dreamt about a witch with translucent skin.
Speaker 1: I saw her skull and her veins and her teeth
Speaker 1: like I was looking through foggy glass. She was a
Speaker 1: real woman, a real witch who'd wandered through town when
Speaker 1: I was an infant. I dreamt about her ever since.
Speaker 1: That night though I was a witch, and the glass
Speaker 1: faced Witch was with me, next to me, tied to
Speaker 1: me with thick hemp rope. We were in a boat.
Speaker 1: Hands lifted us out of the boat and threw us overboard,
Speaker 1: and we sank, and I was drowning, tied the glass
Speaker 1: faced witch.
Speaker 2: And if you want to survive drowning in a sea
Speaker 2: of choices, nothing can save you except having those choices
Speaker 2: made for you already, by choosing what to buy based
Speaker 2: on what advertises on your favorite show, like these advertisers.
Speaker 1: Here they are. And Rebecca Mother's may came and went
Speaker 1: with no sign of the coven, no word from anyone
Speaker 1: passing through either, though of course I had to be
Speaker 1: careful with my inquiries. Witches weren't beloved everywhere across Seacon.
Speaker 1: None of the baronies outlawed witchcraft outright, but not everyone
Speaker 1: knew and appreciated the social utility of witchcraft, and very
Speaker 1: few of the knightly brotherhoods would raise a hand or
Speaker 1: a sword to protect witches. Some knights saw witches as
Speaker 1: a threat to their power and haunted them. If I
Speaker 1: told the wrong knights we were expecting witches, I might
Speaker 1: even get them killed. Most of the news was talk
Speaker 1: of strife. Far to the north, Duchess Helta had pressed
Speaker 1: some ancient and dubious claim and annexed some baron's holdings.
Speaker 1: The news felt impossibly distant. I tried to make myself
Speaker 1: useful at the stables, but as the days were or on,
Speaker 1: I got more and more anxious and distracted. One day
Speaker 1: I forgot to fasten a buckle, and a passing merchant
Speaker 1: fell from her horse and injured her back. After that,
Speaker 1: my mother told me it was about time she got
Speaker 1: used to running the place alone anyway, which left me
Speaker 1: with too much time to worry. What would witches do
Speaker 1: to an impostor would they kick me out, turn me
Speaker 1: into a sow, or kill me. They'd probably just kicked
Speaker 1: me out. Maybe my mother took to eating dinner with
Speaker 1: us at Lane's house, particularly after she fired me, and
Speaker 1: I spent more of my time baking and cooking. Five
Speaker 1: days after Mother's May, I was reaching my breaking point.
Speaker 1: We ate on the back porch where the overgrown garden
Speaker 1: kept away prying eyes, and I wore my short dress.
Speaker 1: The sun was just below the horizon. We were mopping
Speaker 1: up the last of a turnip and barley soup with
Speaker 1: fresh baked bread, and I just couldn't keep my feelings
Speaker 1: cooped up anymore. I give up, I said, this waiting.
Speaker 1: It's going to kill me, or the witches will kill me,
Speaker 1: or people will kill me for being a witch. Better,
Speaker 1: I just give up. I'll go be a sailor or
Speaker 1: something instead. Sailors see the world too. Laine looked up,
Speaker 1: her brown eyes just starting to go wide with fear.
Speaker 1: If I backed out, the coven would take her instead.
Speaker 1: You can do anything you want with your life, Laurel,
Speaker 1: my mother said. I always knew a lecture was coming
Speaker 1: when she used my name. And I don't wish you
Speaker 1: were off to be a witch. But you made a
Speaker 1: promise to Lane. I didn't say I promise, I said,
Speaker 1: as soon as the words came out of my mouth,
Speaker 1: I regretted them, saying, you promise isn't the only way
Speaker 1: to promise. Yes, it's okay, Laine said, it was nice
Speaker 1: of you to offer, but if you back out, it's okay.
Speaker 1: I didn't like my mom being mean to me, and
Speaker 1: I didn't like Lane being nice to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: like much of anything at all. The Bloodston bell told
Speaker 1: twice the Ledstone bell rang once for friendly knights and
Speaker 1: merchants come to town, twice for friendly brigands and witches
Speaker 1: and other people the baron didn't approve of three times
Speaker 1: for royalty, and cacophonously for any of the above who
Speaker 1: looked like they might stir up trouble. Never mind, I said,
Speaker 1: standing up, I'll do it upstairs with you. My mother
Speaker 1: said to Lane, out of sight, you look too much
Speaker 1: like your mother. Laane darted over and hugged me. She
Speaker 1: pulled back to look at me like she was trying
Speaker 1: to say something. Then she gave up, shook her head,
Speaker 1: and ran into the house. Are you going through with this,
Speaker 1: my mother asked. I stood up straight, smoothed out my dress.
Speaker 1: Of course, I said, I made a promise. My arms
Speaker 1: shook uncontrollably at my side as I walked to the
Speaker 1: center of town, and it was all I could do
Speaker 1: to concentrate on my breathing. We have come for the
Speaker 1: daughter of Leona.
Speaker 3: Of the lead.
Speaker 1: Five witches stood shoulder to shoulder in the center of
Speaker 1: the town square. My whole childhood, I'd wanted to know
Speaker 1: about witches. It was always hard to separate rumor from truth,
Speaker 1: but I knew a few things. I knew that every
Speaker 1: full fledged witch was the other's equal. For one thing,
Speaker 1: each of these five were black from head to toe,
Speaker 1: despite the warm evening and the heat radiating from the
Speaker 1: cobbles beneath their boots. One was roughly my mother's age,
Speaker 1: with the ivory, pale skin and narrow nose of someone
Speaker 1: from the far north. Two of them were as old
Speaker 1: as anyone I'd ever seen. Two of them could scarcely
Speaker 1: have been twenty. One of the youngest had a fresh
Speaker 1: wound cut across her face and stood with the help
Speaker 1: of a crotch. Two of the others had bandaged arms.
Speaker 1: I must have had trouble on the way. Maybe that
Speaker 1: was why they were so late. Most of them were
Speaker 1: armed with spears or axes or swords. The uninjured young
Speaker 1: one carried what looked like a bird cage covered with
Speaker 1: a cloth embroidered in the indecipherable rooms of witchcraft. Behind them,
Speaker 1: a girl my age stood shyly, like she didn't know
Speaker 1: quite what to do. Another recruit, most likely, she wore
Speaker 1: the most beautiful black cloak made of glistening sea wool.
Speaker 1: Its hood had a long pointed tail. That was a
Speaker 1: good cloak for a witch. I'm Laurel, I said, I
Speaker 1: lie the best when I sort of just avoid telling
Speaker 1: the truth instead of lying outright, so I didn't mention
Speaker 1: that I only had one name. I stepped forward, one witch.
Speaker 1: One of the crones broke from the line and circled me,
Speaker 1: looking me over. The rest of the witches carried baskets
Speaker 1: of wicker on their backs, but this woman bore a
Speaker 1: casket child sized instead. Laurel of the lead, she said,
Speaker 1: my name was just Laurel, as my family bore no titles.
Speaker 1: But who was I to correct a witch who'd likely
Speaker 1: been born before my long dead great grandmother. She stopped
Speaker 1: in front of me. Do you come willing or merely accepting?
Speaker 1: She asked? There was an old scar on her cheek,
Speaker 1: a crescent moon white against her dark olive skin. I
Speaker 1: come willing, I said, My voice wavered as I spoke.
Speaker 1: What had I gotten myself into? With eyes as old
Speaker 1: and wise as hers, how could she not see right
Speaker 1: through me? The witch smiled. Some of her teeth were yellow,
Speaker 1: some of her teeth were black. One of her teeth
Speaker 1: was captain gold, another captain pearl. The contrast between them
Speaker 1: all was unnerving. Not many come willing, not these past years, why,
Speaker 1: I asked. She ignored my question and went back to
Speaker 1: stand in the line. Only a handful of people had
Speaker 1: gathered to see this strange procession. The herbalist, a few farmers,
Speaker 1: the midwife, River's mother. If any one of them said
Speaker 1: anything about me dressed up like a girl, the whole
Speaker 1: plan would fall apart. My mother stood among the onlookers,
Speaker 1: balancing my wicker basket of clothes on her hip, holding
Speaker 1: it by one of the woven shoulder straps. Laurel of
Speaker 1: the lead, I summon you into the order of the
Speaker 1: Vine today and forever you are, Laurel of the Vine.
Speaker 1: I nodded. I knew no courtly manners for an event
Speaker 1: like this. You have anything to bring with you, just clothes,
Speaker 1: I said, My mother walked towards me, then setting the
Speaker 1: basket down by my feet. Tears welled in the corners
Speaker 1: of her eyes. You've been like a daughter to me,
Speaker 1: my mother said. She winked and hugged me for a moment.
Speaker 1: Go off and be your best self. The chrome looked
Speaker 1: between me and my mother for a brief moment, as
Speaker 1: if noticing the similarities in our features, but she said
Speaker 1: nothing with no more formality. The line of witches turned
Speaker 1: and walked out of town. I grabbed my basket of
Speaker 1: clothes and hurried after. Hey, I hadn't seen through me.
Speaker 1: I was going to be a witch. I wasn't shaking anymore.
Speaker 1: I was grinning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yay.
Speaker 1: And that is the first chapter of the Sapling Cage.
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear more of it, you
Speaker 2: have to get the audiobook and you can listen to
Speaker 2: Jackie read you the entire book, which I didn't think
Speaker 2: I was gonna do, like because I don't tend to
Speaker 2: read my own stuff too much. I mean, like, I
Speaker 2: actually have to read this again like a bunch because
Speaker 2: I'm working on the sequels. Right Oh sure, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but like I think I'm gonna listen to audiobook of it.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I had a wonderful time working on it,
Speaker 1: just because like there were so many like cool characters,
Speaker 1: and also like I fell in love with the setting
Speaker 1: as well, and also like the concept of like here's
Speaker 1: this coming of age Matt story that's not turfy. Yeah totally,
Speaker 1: you know, like speaking as a former Potterhead like it was.
Speaker 1: It was really really nice to to have like a
Speaker 1: magic story that I got to tell because this was
Speaker 1: the first time I had ever gotten to tell any
Speaker 1: sort of coming of age story as like a trans
Speaker 1: person okay, or if not the first one of the
Speaker 1: first yeah, but yeah, so it it meant a lot
Speaker 1: that I got to like sort of help bring this
Speaker 1: story to life, and I had such a good time
Speaker 1: with it. And I will say this job is a
Speaker 1: lot easier when the writing is good. And the writing
Speaker 1: is so good in this book, So thank you. Even
Speaker 1: if you're not going to listen to me, you should
Speaker 1: buy the book listeners, you should buy the book and
Speaker 1: give it a read, because holy hell, it's a wonderful story.
Speaker 1: Even with the way you're saying about you know, the
Speaker 1: writing itself on something right when I read for this show.
Speaker 1: I find that certain stories are so much easier to
Speaker 1: read than others, just in terms of the number of
Speaker 1: retakes I need to do. And it's interesting because even
Speaker 1: listening to you, like, obviously no one.
Speaker 2: Will hear that you ever had to do any retakes.
Speaker 1: But there's a.
Speaker 2: Couple, right, a few, and but most of the retakes
Speaker 2: are kind of like the way that you accidentally read
Speaker 2: it first is the way that's a little bit more natural,
Speaker 2: you know, So just interesting thinking about the way that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the type of pros like, especially when I read like
Speaker 2: weird old nineteenth century stuff, I'm like, nothing's written in
Speaker 2: the way that you expect it to be, and you know, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I'm like usually talk about the text
Speaker 2: or whatever afterwards, but then I'm like, well, I wrote it.
Speaker 2: I have both all of the thoughts and none of
Speaker 2: the thoughts. I mean, let me ask you a few
Speaker 2: questions about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, So I think I remember when we were
Speaker 1: like talking in pre production about this, you said you
Speaker 1: had started writing this story what like ten years back, almost.
Speaker 2: Ten years back, it was probably twenty sixteen or so. Wow,
Speaker 2: eight years or so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And was there something that sort of like helped
Speaker 1: this story had come to you where there were like
Speaker 1: experiences you had or were you just like, wow, we
Speaker 1: were missing this kind of story.
Speaker 2: There's a couple different things. There's like one that I
Speaker 2: give credit to. Have you read The Song of the Lion,
Speaker 2: a series by Timora Pierce. I have not, but that's
Speaker 2: not the first time I've heard of that series. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's about a young girl whose brother is promised to
Speaker 2: go be a night and doesn't want to be a knight.
Speaker 2: He wants to be a wizard, and so she dresses
Speaker 2: up as a boy and goes off and becomes a knight.
Speaker 2: And I read that when I was in fifth grade
Speaker 2: and it blew my little gender confused brain in a
Speaker 2: way that I still don't entirely know how to wrap
Speaker 2: my head around, Like, oh, yeah, I'm a girl who
Speaker 2: likes swords who pretended to be a boy for her
Speaker 2: entire childhood, Like you know, I identify with that character.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I wanted to do something kind of
Speaker 2: the other direction. And there's actually a short story that
Speaker 2: someone who's sometimes a guest on my other show, Lori
Speaker 2: Penny wrote, I actually don't think it's been published, but
Speaker 2: I read it while we were in a writing workshop
Speaker 2: together that had as like a side character a boy
Speaker 2: who went off to become a witch. And so I
Speaker 2: think that that idea was always kind of sitting in
Speaker 2: the back of my mind, and I very like confused
Speaker 2: ideas about you know, gender is like a moving target
Speaker 2: and the way we talk about it as a society
Speaker 2: as a moving target. It's absolutely it's different now than
Speaker 2: it was in twenty sixteen when I came out, And
Speaker 2: it's different in twenty sixteen than it was in two
Speaker 2: thousand and four when I, you know, first started calling
Speaker 2: myself Margaret, because I managed to call myself Margaret for
Speaker 2: twelve years before I bothered telling anyone I was a girl.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's how it goes, I know.
Speaker 2: And like that wasice about like punk scenes, just people
Speaker 2: were like all right, yeah, like yeah, sure, yeah. When
Speaker 2: I was like a street kid, like I remember like
Speaker 2: sleeping in Tompkins Square Park and I would do this
Speaker 2: thing where I would wear cargo pants and then a
Speaker 2: loose MAXI skirt over it, and so that when I
Speaker 2: needed to like boy mode really quickly, I would just
Speaker 2: tuck the skirt into the pockets of the cargo pants.
Speaker 2: That's a smart move. Yeah, yeah, no, it worked for me.
Speaker 2: And like I remember one time I was like just
Speaker 2: like sleeping in the park during the day and then
Speaker 2: I like woke up and ran somewhere and I wasn't
Speaker 2: thinking about it. My like skirt fell down and all
Speaker 2: the like. They weren't like the cool punks. They were
Speaker 2: like the kind of scary punks or whatever. They saw it,
Speaker 2: and they were like, yeah, all right whatever, And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh right, folks who live on the edge
Speaker 2: of society don't give a shit about stuff like this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really funny. How like like you said,
Speaker 1: how like gender is this like constantly moving target and
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, because like, yeah, that is something
Speaker 1: that I'm still feeling, because like for me, it was
Speaker 1: like I remember being young and like like feeling some
Speaker 1: way about gender but not really having like the vocabulary
Speaker 1: to describe it. I remember like learning what a lesbian
Speaker 1: was and like feeling like, wow, that resonates with me
Speaker 1: for some reason. I guess I'm like a lesbian and
Speaker 1: the body of a young boy. And then I proceeded
Speaker 1: to not think about that for fifteen years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And then like when I was in high school, I
Speaker 1: started to like develop like attractions to like the boys
Speaker 1: my age, and I was like, oh, oh, so I'm gay. Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. And then I ran with
Speaker 1: that until I was in college, and then my freshman
Speaker 1: year I had this way I can only describe as
Speaker 1: a dysphoric breakdown in front of the mirror, okay. And
Speaker 1: then that got me like being like, okay, what is
Speaker 1: this gender stuff? Because stuff is happening. Then I learned
Speaker 1: like about the gender fluid kind of label and non
Speaker 1: binary and just how it's not necessarily like this purely
Speaker 1: defined like man or woman kind of thing, and how
Speaker 1: that was like a thing, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm probably somewhere in that camp. I guess like we'll
Speaker 1: go with like queer ish and then I didn't really
Speaker 1: do anything beyond that. I had like done some research
Speaker 1: into like do I want to transition? Do I not
Speaker 1: want to transition? And like at the time, I was
Speaker 1: like I don't think this is for me, at least
Speaker 1: not right now. Yeah, and then I ran with that
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, I'm this queer person who's very like
Speaker 1: male presenting and all of that, and then the pandemic
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty happened, and I had all of this
Speaker 1: free time to actually think about like things in life
Speaker 1: and like being like, huh, when faced with the very
Speaker 1: real prospect of my own mortality, am I like any regrets?
Speaker 1: And I was like kind of wish I had explored
Speaker 1: gender a little more, and you know, maybe like dipped
Speaker 1: my toes and so like I don't know, like what's
Speaker 1: HRT about. And then I remember like having those thoughts,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, son of a bitch, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess I have to do the thing I've been
Speaker 1: avoiding doing. I guess I have to do the thing
Speaker 1: that I've been avoiding thinking about for a while. And
Speaker 1: so I got a therapist and like talked things out,
Speaker 1: and like we both very quickly like came to the
Speaker 1: consensus of like yeah, you're trans yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: able to start HRT hell yeah. But like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really funny because like I remember starting like HRT and
Speaker 1: like I was very much like playing with like they
Speaker 1: then she heard she they, I was she they for
Speaker 1: a while, and then I kept getting consistently they themmed
Speaker 1: only and so I was like Okay. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of this was from like the the cist people
Speaker 1: in my life who I love dearly. Yeah, I like
Speaker 1: love you all and like, believe me, I was happy
Speaker 1: that y'all were so to practice theay them because that's
Speaker 1: hard for SIS people.
Speaker 2: Right, totally.
Speaker 1: But it eventually got to the point where I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, y'all are constantly they theming me and never
Speaker 1: she she hurrang me, So y'all have lost your day
Speaker 1: them rights and so and so I was like strictly
Speaker 1: she her for a couple of years after that, and
Speaker 1: then it's only recently that I have gone back to
Speaker 1: she they because I was like, Okay, this feels more accurate.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And another weird thing that I noticed was like, while
Speaker 1: while transitioning and like allowing myself to like have these
Speaker 1: thoughts and things, was that I realized that I didn't
Speaker 1: suddenly go from the gay man that I thought I
Speaker 1: was to the straight girl m hm. And like I started,
Speaker 1: I started to realize I had like sapphic feelings for
Speaker 1: some women, and I was like, oh, oh, we're by yeah,
Speaker 1: son of a bitch.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So over the years, I've resonated with pretty much all
Speaker 1: the letters. Yeah, and I've won a cuer bingo. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I win other than bragging rights,
Speaker 1: I say, your quote, but like a combination of oppression
Speaker 1: points and regular oppression.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All this is to say is just that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: gender is funny. Gender and sexuality are weird and cool,
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, it's not always this super defined thing.
Speaker 2: I really resonate with what you're saying about. Like, for me,
Speaker 2: the decision to come out in twenty sixteen was that
Speaker 2: a transoitman I knew died in the ghost Ship fire
Speaker 2: in Oakland, which was a DIY space that burned down,
Speaker 2: and I believe the end of twenty sixteen, and it
Speaker 2: was like right before my birthday, and I was just
Speaker 2: like and it's awful and selfish, but you know, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, what if I died? Right, So it's
Speaker 2: the same thing. It's like staring at your mortality and
Speaker 2: you're like, well, I don't want to be remembered so
Speaker 2: completely incorrectly, you know, I like just don't want to
Speaker 2: be like just like imagining in my own tombstone with
Speaker 2: like the wrong name on it, you know, And you're
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, it's hard and it's hard to imagine that,
Speaker 2: and so that was like, yeah, that was a lot
Speaker 2: of what made it feel necessary for me to come out.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because in this book, you know, the protagonist,
Speaker 2: not to spoil anything, the protagonist is like, you know,
Speaker 2: questioning her feelings around gender and like explores it in
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways. And one of the things
Speaker 2: I really liked about getting to do this is that
Speaker 2: getting to explore gender in a world that just isn't ours,
Speaker 2: Like this isn't like, no one's going to come up
Speaker 2: in this book spoiler, and no one's going to be like, Hi,
Speaker 2: I'm she they you know, even though I'm a she
Speaker 2: the it was written by SHEI the right. But like,
Speaker 2: but since gender is a social construct, it's going to
Speaker 2: be constructed differently in a like medieval fantasy setting, and
Speaker 2: that's like one of the things that I really want
Speaker 2: to explore with it, and I hope that folks are
Speaker 2: able to kind of get out of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I'm so looking forward to reading
Speaker 1: the next installment in the series because just to watch
Speaker 1: how more things develop with this story. And like, certain
Speaker 1: again I won't give spoilers, but yeah, certain relationships and
Speaker 1: friendships and dynamics that developed in this first book, and
Speaker 1: see how they continue to develop and grow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if folks want to hear what the book is,
Speaker 2: you could listen to it. And if you're like, I
Speaker 2: hate to say, it's like, it's obviously a book about
Speaker 2: a transgirl, but it is not primarily a book about gender.
Speaker 2: It is primarily a book about why I like spears.
Speaker 2: It is primarily a book that is a you know,
Speaker 2: high fantasy ya about I mean, honestly, the big metaphor
Speaker 2: that is in this if you listen to my history podcast,
Speaker 2: you'll understand that I'm obsessed with like the enclosure of
Speaker 2: the commons and taking things that are like wild and
Speaker 2: communal and putting them into the hands of only a
Speaker 2: few people in a specialized way. And they like how
Speaker 2: that's empowered capitalism and all those things. Like that's actually
Speaker 2: the the plot, right, The character and the identity of
Speaker 2: the character is that she is transfeminine. The plot of
Speaker 2: the book is these trees that are dying and what
Speaker 2: is to be done about it. So if you're like, well,
Speaker 2: if you hate gender stuff, you're not gonna like this book.
Speaker 2: But if you're like not specifically looking for a gender book.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. This isn't specifically a gender book. It
Speaker 2: just happens to be right that as well. It just
Speaker 2: happens to have a transfemine protagonist. Yeah, and like other
Speaker 2: queer people in it too, but it's never At least,
Speaker 2: the way it read to me was like it seemed
Speaker 2: perfectly natural. It didn't feel like, I know, there are
Speaker 2: folks out there who say that we're constantly like shoving
Speaker 2: it down their throat or whatever, and I mean, I
Speaker 2: can speak for myself here, but like that's not at
Speaker 2: all how the text came across to me. But if
Speaker 2: you're listening to this and you would like to start
Speaker 2: a campaign against this book, all publicity is free publicity,
Speaker 2: and so I will pretend that it's a gender book
Speaker 2: if I don't know if I actually feel that way,
Speaker 2: because like part of me is like ha ha ha
Speaker 2: if I got a list of banned books, like, imagine
Speaker 2: what they'll do for my career, And then I'm like,
Speaker 2: it also just sucks because I actually want this book
Speaker 2: to be available to kids to read.
Speaker 1: The thing, like, yes, yes, that would definitely get more
Speaker 1: eyes on it. And also I I mean listen, Like,
Speaker 1: I think queer stories are really important, and especially like
Speaker 1: stories like this, Like they're always important, but I feel
Speaker 1: like now, especially yeah, in our current political climate and
Speaker 1: day and age and all of the scariness that has
Speaker 1: been sort of centered around queer and trans people in particular,
Speaker 1: I think this story is like super important and I
Speaker 1: think people should read it. I know that, like, at
Speaker 1: least again speaking for myself, if I had gotten to
Speaker 1: read this book as a kid, my life would have
Speaker 1: been very different, yeah, and like positive, Yeah, my life
Speaker 1: would have been really different and I would have figured
Speaker 1: stuff out a lot sooner.
Speaker 2: That was a big part of it, as I was like,
Speaker 2: I want to write the book that I want to
Speaker 2: give to twelve year old me.
Speaker 3: You know yeah, yeah yeah, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think we're kind of out of time,
Speaker 2: but thanks for joining us on coolsone Media book Club.
Speaker 2: The book is called The Saplink Cage. It comes out
Speaker 2: September twenty fourth, twenty twenty four, from Feminist Press, and
Speaker 2: you all should listen to the audiobook. Do you have
Speaker 2: anything else do you want to plug? You have like
Speaker 2: other books that you're like, go out and listen to
Speaker 2: this other book I did or what else you've been
Speaker 2: working on.
Speaker 1: Oh God, if you want to hear another story like
Speaker 1: narrating like a transperson's perspective, if you listen to five
Speaker 1: part Invention by Andrea J. Buchanan. I got to work
Speaker 1: with four other extremely talented narrators on that, and it's
Speaker 1: a heavy story. It deals with like generational trauma, but
Speaker 1: it's very, very well crafted. And I thought that Zoe's
Speaker 1: part of it in particular, which is the character that
Speaker 1: I got to read for, was especially handled with care
Speaker 1: and that was really well done. Another transfer, I recently
Speaker 1: got to read the autobiography of Philip, a writer who
Speaker 1: is this really badass trans writes activist in Ireland, and
Speaker 1: that was really cool.
Speaker 2: That sounds cool.
Speaker 1: Other than that, if you're more of like the superhero
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, I've read several Spider Man books as well,
Speaker 1: so you'll check those out.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's secretly trans people in the Spider Man world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whoops. But I've done a lot of different stuff,
Speaker 1: but I guess those were some of the standouts for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I didn't have anything more eloquent to plug or
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you warn me ahead of time that you're
Speaker 2: not an improvisor. You work from scripts then I and
Speaker 2: then I asked you questions that I didn't warn you
Speaker 2: I was going to ask.
Speaker 1: So sorry, it happens, but I encourage everybody to check
Speaker 1: out more of that quality queer literature.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah. And if you want to see the two
Speaker 2: of us together in person, us even meeting in person
Speaker 2: for the first time. Yes, on October fifteenth at the
Speaker 2: ann Arbor District Library at the downtown location at six
Speaker 2: thirty pm. I'm going to be on tour with the
Speaker 2: Sapling Cage and it's going to be sweet because instead
Speaker 2: of me I'm going to do a reading, I'm going
Speaker 2: to make Jackie do it six thirty pm, Octoveber fifteenth,
Speaker 2: the ann Arbor District Library and its downtown location.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'm so looking forward to that.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll talk to everyone next week. Have a
Speaker 2: good week.
Speaker 1: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here.
Speaker 2: Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com Slash Sources thanks for listening.