1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Book Club, book Club, book Club, book Club book Club. 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: It's the Cool Zone Media book Club, the only podcast 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: where you don't have to do the reading. And usually 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 2: I say, because I do the reading. But this week 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: it's going to be different. This week, instead of reading 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: to a guest, I found a guest to read to me. 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: I found Jackie milash Hi. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: Hi. 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: So, Jackie is the narrator of my upcoming book, The 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: Sapling Cage. You've probably heard me talking about for the 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: past like six months at least or longer. But I thought, 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: wouldn't it be fun to read you all a chapter 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: of it? And then I thought, wouldn't it be even 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: more fun if you all could listen to the person 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: who's going to be doing the reading of it in 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: your ears? Because Jackie's narrator of the book, So I 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: thought she should come on and read you all some 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: of the book. 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: Well, hell yeah, I'm so glad to be here. 21 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: I usually do like a bio of the author, but 22 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 2: I'm not going to do a bio of the author, 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: but tell us about you really quickly. 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So I'm I'm like, who am I. It's 25 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: one of those things where like as soon as anybody 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: asks me a question and I have all the knowledge 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: I have just disappears. I'm a voice actor who specializes 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: in audiobook narration. I'm based out of the ann Arbor, 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: Michigan area, and I also work out a library part 30 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: time as well, and so it's a cool gig. This 31 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: story meant a lot to me because I am transfeminine myself. 32 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: My pronouns are she, they, and so a lot of 33 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: what's like in the text really really resonated with me. 34 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: And so I was thrilled to be able to narrate 35 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: this title, and I'm thrilled to be here to read 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: a little piece of it for you guys today. 37 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 38 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: I had nothing to do with the decision making of narrators, 39 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: but I did get to hear the like audition piece 40 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, no, this is going to work, 41 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: this is gonna be right, thank you. So The Sapling 42 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: Cage is a book that I wrote, and it is 43 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: a crossover, which means it's a YA book that knows 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: it's going to be read by adults, which did me 45 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: a lot of good. Well, we'll talk about the book 46 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: more at the end after the reading, but instead it's 47 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: called The Sapling Cage. It comes out September twenty fourth, 48 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, in both audiobook and print book form, 49 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: and you can pre order either the print or the audio, 50 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: or both if you're feeling spicy. I don't know why 51 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: that's spicy, but you could do it. 52 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: Why not? 53 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 2: All right, let's hear this amazing story. I've never had 54 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: anyone read me one of my own things before. I 55 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: suppose that is an unusual sort of sensation and feeling. Yeah, yeah, 56 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: especially because it's like a fantasy world full of weird names. 57 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: But you know, sure it's going to be great. Oh yeah, 58 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm excited. 59 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, all right. One, the alder tree 60 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: was ancient, and its leaves and branches left sunlight dappled 61 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: on the forest floor. It was also dead, and it 62 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. Everywhere around us the forest was waking 63 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: from winter. Everything was bluebells and white trilliums and new 64 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: buds on branches and bright green leaves. Everything was spring 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: except the alder. Its bark was sharp with cold, like 66 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: ice or like stone. Its leaves were gray. I don't 67 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: think trees are supposed to be like that, Blaine said. 68 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: We'd finished our morning work on the communal fields not 69 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: a hundred yards away through the trees. Horses ran in 70 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: the pasture, excited to be outside after so many months 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: of snow. I could smell rain in the air. It 72 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: should have been a perfect day. But the alder was dead, 73 00:03:54,880 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: and it shouldn't have been. Witchcraft. Lane said. That was 74 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: her explanation for everything strange. It couldn't be the witches. 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: I said, that was my defense of everything blamed on witchcraft. 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: She paced around the tree. It took her several paces 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: for every lap. She was half a year younger than me, 78 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: she'd just turned sixteen, but she was the one always 79 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: trying to burn off extra energy. I peered at the 80 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: frost gathered on the alder's bark. I see another one, 81 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: Laine said. She took off, running further into the forest, 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: and I caught up with her a ways away. A 83 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: young pine was dead and cold, its needles gone gray. 84 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: One shattered at the touch of my finger. Who else 85 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: but witches, Lane asked, Trees don't turn cold. Only a 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: witch could save it. I said, you'll be able to 87 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: save it. Oh hooray, Lane said, sarcastically. It's not that bad. 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: I didn't make that deal. I don't think my dead 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: mom's promise she'd mean anything. Layne and I started back 90 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: toward the village. Witches get to wear those black skirts, though, 91 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: I said, and curse people and heal people. I'd rather 92 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: be a knight, you know. I'd rather be a knight. 93 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: Why are you arguing with me about this? That was 94 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: a fair question. I thought it over as we walked. 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: If I was a girl, I'd pretend to be you 96 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: and go in your place. I'd always wanted to be 97 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: a witch. It's a shame you aren't a girl, Laine said. 98 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: I agreed, not just because of the witch thing. One 99 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: of my earliest memories was being glad that my name 100 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Laurel was as common for girls as it was for boys. 101 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: Five years back, my mother had given up trying to 102 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: keep me out of her face, powder and paint. Laine 103 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: had always been gamed to trade clothes with me. Those 104 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: were the only two people in town who I talked 105 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: to about how I should have been a girl. I 106 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: had enough social problems already. When I was little, maybe seven, 107 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: I told my friend River to call me a girl 108 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: instead of a boy, and he just punched me right 109 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: then and there, without thinking about it. My mom thought 110 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: my nose was broke and a traveling witch had to 111 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: set it for me. River apologized, and maybe he even 112 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: meant it that he was sorry, but he'd made it 113 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: seem like the whole thing was my fault, like I'd 114 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: scared him or something. So yeah, only my mom and 115 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: Lane knew about the dresses and the paint. If I 116 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: were a witch, though, I could turn the next person 117 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: like River into a goat, or figure out things like 118 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: why those trees were cold. I'll do it anyway, I said, 119 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: as we walked through the fields of flax and barley. 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: What I started talking faster so I wouldn't lose my nerve. 121 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: When the coven comes through to take you, I'll tell 122 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: them i'm you, and I'll go off and learn to 123 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: be a witch. You're a boy, Laine said. Girls are 124 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: allowed to be nights, now, why can't boys be witches? 125 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: And besides, it's not my fault I'm a boy. It's 126 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: still true. I can pretend. Lane walked up next to 127 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: me and threw her arms around my shoulders. What if 128 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: you get caught. I won't get caught, I said. Strangers 129 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: always think I'm a girl. Anyway, My mother and I 130 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: ran the stables. There were more popular roads than Southede, 131 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: and there were more prosperous towns than Ledstone on Southeide, 132 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: but we still saw our share of wayfarers. Most were 133 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: on their way to Port Sac to our east, or 134 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: Deadmond Castle to our west, and most of them had horses, 135 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: and most of them stabled with us overnight. We served 136 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: knights and mercenaries and merchants and brigands. And I was 137 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: just reaching an age where grown men took not a 138 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: small amount of interest in trying to figure out my gender. 139 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: I didn't have even a hint of a beard, my 140 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: shoulders were narrow, and I had my mother's sharp features. 141 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: These are witches, though Lane reminded me, they can see 142 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: more than other people can. Were you trying to talk 143 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: me out of it? I asked no. She squeezed me 144 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: tighter against her side as we walked. I'm just worried. 145 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: What will you tell your dads or your mother. I 146 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: won't tell Grell or Jorge anything. My dad's had a 147 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: home all the way in Port Sac. I lived with 148 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: them every autumn for a month or so. When the 149 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: storms kept them on land most of the year. I 150 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: didn't hear from them, and their only contribution to my 151 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: upbringing was the silver they sent my mother when they could. Mom, 152 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: though she'll understand, I love it like I love the Baron, 153 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: my mother said when I told her, that was about 154 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: as close as she came to cursing. She sure didn't 155 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: love Baron, need no one did. She sat in her 156 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: rocking chair, a clay mug of wine in her hand. 157 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: I'd waited until after supper to tell her, because she 158 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: never took news well on an empty stomach. I didn't either, 159 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: come to think of it, she took a long draw 160 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: of the mug. You're old enough to make your own mistakes. 161 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: After that, she didn't say anything at all, which was 162 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: kind of worse than her yelling at me. Really, it 163 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: left me with nothing to do but stand around there 164 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,599 Speaker 1: was only one good chair on the porch of the 165 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: stable house and come to my own conclusions about why 166 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: it was a bad idea. I didn't want to do that, 167 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: I'd made up my so I tried not to linger 168 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: on what the witches might do to me if they 169 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: found out, or what nights sometimes did to witches. I'll 170 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: get to learn magic, I said, real magic. Cauldrons and curses, 171 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll even learn how to fly. What is 172 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: it that you think witches do? They travel around doing 173 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: good things? I said, they help some people and hurt 174 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: some people, depending on what they deserve. That's what you 175 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: want to do, help some people, hurt other people. Since 176 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: when have you liked hurting people? I don't know, mom, 177 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: since never. I guess it was my turn to grow quiet. 178 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: I'd probably learned that trick from her. The cicadas were 179 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: out and early too, filling the air with their rising 180 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: and falling song. The town drunk said it was going 181 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: to be an irrational year, one of those years where 182 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: the seasons don't do it, there's a host to and 183 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: crops fail. No one paid him over much heed, But 184 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: the cicadas really shouldn't have been out just yet. There's 185 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: no way to disguise yourself, my mom said, breaking the silence, 186 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: not forever. You don't look at now, but you're going 187 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: to grow into a man by then. I bet I'll 188 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: have magic enough to hide it. I said, I won't 189 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: hear the end of it, never, not from Grell. When 190 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: she invoked my birth father's name, I knew that was 191 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: basically the end of it. She'd given up. I was 192 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: my mother's child through and through, and she knew I 193 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: didn't care what Grell thought. I hadn't inherited anything from Grell, 194 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: but skin half a shade darker than my mother's olive. 195 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: This is it, then, she said. She poured the dregs 196 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: of her wine off into the grass, honored the dead, 197 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: as she did with every coup. The cavin is going 198 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: to be by soon enough, and you're going to lie 199 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: to them, and you'll learn to be a witch. Not 200 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: a sailor, not a knight, not another's forbid, a stable master, 201 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: but a witch, my son, a witch. I nodded, grinning. 202 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: She hadn't stopped me. I knew deep in my heart 203 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: that if it was truly a terrible idea, my mother 204 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: would have tried harder to stop me. What's Laine going 205 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: to do while you're off being her? She want to 206 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: learn how to run a stable. She's going to be 207 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: a knight. Of course, she is my mom's side. I 208 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: knew she wasn't happy about me leaving. I knew she 209 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: wanted someone to care about the stables, about Ledstone the 210 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: way she did. But that wasn't me. It wouldn't have 211 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: done anyone any good for me to pretend otherwise. But 212 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: if you want to pretend to care about things, you 213 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: could pretend to care about the advertisers that support the 214 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: pot guests that you run, much like I'm doing right now. 215 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 3: Here's some ads yang capitalism and rebec. 216 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: Witches don't really keep proper schedules, but most years they 217 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: made their way down southeat around Mother's May, the spring holiday. 218 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: I figured I had about a week to repare myself. 219 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: The witches didn't know Lane by name. They were just 220 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: coming for the daughter of Leona of the Lead, now 221 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: that she'd seen sixteen years. I started sleeping over at 222 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: the Lead manor in case they came at night. The 223 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: house was a decrepit shell, really, the rock walls overgrown 224 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: with vines and half the lumber taken to rot. Laane 225 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: did what she could to maintain it, but she'd live 226 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: there alone for three years. She spent most of her 227 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: days working the communal fields, and hadn't the skills or 228 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: resources for serious repairs. The manner was a shadow of 229 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: its former glory. That manner dead manner. Lane called it 230 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: rhyming the name. A few hundred years ago Lane's ancestors 231 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: had founded the town to mine. Lad then sworn fealty 232 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: to some baroness or baron. Serfs moved in, and those 233 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: who weren't mining took to farming on the communal fields. 234 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: One hundred years back, collectivisation had swept through the Lowlands, 235 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: and the baron had allowed it Rather than lose power completely. 236 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: Lane's family stayed richer than most of the rest of us, 237 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: but only through trade and inheritance. They no longer ruled, 238 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: and they no longer took tax. Only the baron did 239 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: either of those things. By Lane's mother's time, the family 240 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: barely had enough to maintain the ancient manner. The first 241 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: night I spent there waiting for the witches, Lane led 242 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: me up treacherous stairs to her parents' old living quarters. 243 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: We had to pick our way carefully across the sagging 244 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: floor in the lamplight. I'm going to bring this place 245 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: back to glory, Lane said, tugging her shirtsleeve free from 246 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: a protruating nail. I'll be the first night protector Letston's 247 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: hat in fifty years. You really think you'll come back, 248 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: I asked, you won't. I mean I'll visit my mom, 249 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: I said, sometimes we could use a village witch, Lane said, 250 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: Just think of this place with a night protector and 251 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: a village witch. Too much world to see, I said, 252 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: since I'd made up my mind to join the witches, 253 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: I'd spent half my time waking and asleep imagining all 254 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: the things I was off to see and do. We 255 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: stopped before a heavy cherrywood wardrobe set in the corner 256 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: of the master bedroom. Its hinges were faded brass, but 257 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: gold filigrees still gleamed eternally bright along the doorpan. Before 258 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: Lane's mother died, she had always kept us out of 259 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: this room. After Lane's mother died, Lane herself had solemnly 260 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: told me that this wardrobe was off limits. Lane selected 261 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: an iron key hung on a chain from her belt 262 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: and held it aloft so we might appreciate the seriousness 263 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: of the moment. You ready, she asked. I nodded. I 264 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: could scarcely wait. She opened the wardrobe. Black skirts and 265 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: dresses hung from hooks. Stockings woven in intricate patterns lay 266 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: in a pile. Jewelry finely crafted from plain materials, glittered 267 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: beneath the glass lid of an ebony box. I'd studied 268 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: at the loom enough to know the long days it 269 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: took to weave a few yards of flax or wool. 270 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: This was the accumulated wealth of a life. My mother 271 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: left pretty clear instructions for when I left to join 272 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: the Witches. Lane said I was to bring a short dress, 273 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: a long dress, a warm cloak, a winter skirt, and 274 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: three pairs of stockings. So pick out whatever you'd like 275 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: my own dress. I would have my own dress, two 276 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: of them. Even. I spent most of an hour making 277 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: my decision, modeling each garment in front of the mirror 278 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: on the inside door of the wardrobe. Not even Leona 279 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: of the lad had ever owned a smooth glass mirror, 280 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: so my image was distorted. That suited me fine. It 281 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: let me imagine how I ought to look. I let 282 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: my hair down out of its top knot long and 283 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: straight and black. It framed my face well. I'd have 284 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: worn it down all the time if I could. Though 285 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: I was much taller than Lane, I was nearly the 286 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: same size as Leona had been. Most of the dresses 287 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: sat funny across my chest since I had nothing to 288 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: fill them out, and even fewer of them were loose 289 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: enough across the hips to hide the bulge between my legs. 290 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: But in the end I found two that fit me 291 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: just right. Both were high waisted, which made my legs 292 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: look longer and my torso shorter. One linen, one wool. 293 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: When I wore those dresses, I couldn't stop smiling. You're beautiful, 294 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: Lene said, she was smiling too. She thought for a moment, 295 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: then dug through the wardrobe. She pulled out a necklace, 296 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: A black stone pendant hung from a delicate steel chain. 297 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: She held it out to me. No one in town 298 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: had anything so nice. Your mother didn't say anything about 299 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: taking any jewelry, I said, she's dead. Take it as 300 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: I thank you. I took it and put it on. 301 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: It hung just above the low neckline of the long dress, 302 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: the stone cool and comforting against my chest. Despite how 303 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: I was born, I was going to get to be 304 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: a witch, despite how I was born, I was going 305 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: to get to live as a woman. Lane squeezed me. 306 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: She was crying into my neck. Thank you, she whispered. 307 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: Of course I started crying too. I slept in my 308 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: long dress that night. I wanted to get used to 309 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: wearing it, and also I just didn't want to take 310 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: it off. I slept in one of the empty rooms 311 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: in the manner. A windstorm howled outside, and branches cracked 312 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: in the distance. I dreamt about a witch with translucent skin. 313 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: I saw her skull and her veins and her teeth 314 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: like I was looking through foggy glass. She was a 315 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: real woman, a real witch who'd wandered through town when 316 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: I was an infant. I dreamt about her ever since. 317 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: That night though I was a witch, and the glass 318 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: faced Witch was with me, next to me, tied to 319 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: me with thick hemp rope. We were in a boat. 320 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: Hands lifted us out of the boat and threw us overboard, 321 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: and we sank, and I was drowning, tied the glass 322 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: faced witch. 323 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 2: And if you want to survive drowning in a sea 324 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: of choices, nothing can save you except having those choices 325 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: made for you already, by choosing what to buy based 326 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: on what advertises on your favorite show, like these advertisers. 327 00:20:46,000 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: Here they are. And Rebecca Mother's may came and went 328 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: with no sign of the coven, no word from anyone 329 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: passing through either, though of course I had to be 330 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: careful with my inquiries. Witches weren't beloved everywhere across Seacon. 331 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: None of the baronies outlawed witchcraft outright, but not everyone 332 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: knew and appreciated the social utility of witchcraft, and very 333 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: few of the knightly brotherhoods would raise a hand or 334 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: a sword to protect witches. Some knights saw witches as 335 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: a threat to their power and haunted them. If I 336 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: told the wrong knights we were expecting witches, I might 337 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: even get them killed. Most of the news was talk 338 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: of strife. Far to the north, Duchess Helta had pressed 339 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: some ancient and dubious claim and annexed some baron's holdings. 340 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: The news felt impossibly distant. I tried to make myself 341 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: useful at the stables, but as the days were or on, 342 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: I got more and more anxious and distracted. One day 343 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: I forgot to fasten a buckle, and a passing merchant 344 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: fell from her horse and injured her back. After that, 345 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: my mother told me it was about time she got 346 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: used to running the place alone anyway, which left me 347 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: with too much time to worry. What would witches do 348 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: to an impostor would they kick me out, turn me 349 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: into a sow, or kill me. They'd probably just kicked 350 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: me out. Maybe my mother took to eating dinner with 351 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: us at Lane's house, particularly after she fired me, and 352 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: I spent more of my time baking and cooking. Five 353 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: days after Mother's May, I was reaching my breaking point. 354 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: We ate on the back porch where the overgrown garden 355 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: kept away prying eyes, and I wore my short dress. 356 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: The sun was just below the horizon. We were mopping 357 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: up the last of a turnip and barley soup with 358 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: fresh baked bread, and I just couldn't keep my feelings 359 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: cooped up anymore. I give up, I said, this waiting. 360 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: It's going to kill me, or the witches will kill me, 361 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: or people will kill me for being a witch. Better, 362 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: I just give up. I'll go be a sailor or 363 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: something instead. Sailors see the world too. Laine looked up, 364 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: her brown eyes just starting to go wide with fear. 365 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: If I backed out, the coven would take her instead. 366 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: You can do anything you want with your life, Laurel, 367 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: my mother said. I always knew a lecture was coming 368 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: when she used my name. And I don't wish you 369 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: were off to be a witch. But you made a 370 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: promise to Lane. I didn't say I promise, I said, 371 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: as soon as the words came out of my mouth, 372 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: I regretted them, saying, you promise isn't the only way 373 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: to promise. Yes, it's okay, Laine said, it was nice 374 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: of you to offer, but if you back out, it's okay. 375 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: I didn't like my mom being mean to me, and 376 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: I didn't like Lane being nice to me. I didn't 377 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: like much of anything at all. The Bloodston bell told 378 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: twice the Ledstone bell rang once for friendly knights and 379 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: merchants come to town, twice for friendly brigands and witches 380 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: and other people the baron didn't approve of three times 381 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: for royalty, and cacophonously for any of the above who 382 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: looked like they might stir up trouble. Never mind, I said, 383 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: standing up, I'll do it upstairs with you. My mother 384 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: said to Lane, out of sight, you look too much 385 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: like your mother. Laane darted over and hugged me. She 386 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: pulled back to look at me like she was trying 387 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: to say something. Then she gave up, shook her head, 388 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: and ran into the house. Are you going through with this, 389 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: my mother asked. I stood up straight, smoothed out my dress. 390 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: Of course, I said, I made a promise. My arms 391 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: shook uncontrollably at my side as I walked to the 392 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: center of town, and it was all I could do 393 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: to concentrate on my breathing. We have come for the 394 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: daughter of Leona. 395 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: Of the lead. 396 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: Five witches stood shoulder to shoulder in the center of 397 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: the town square. My whole childhood, I'd wanted to know 398 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: about witches. It was always hard to separate rumor from truth, 399 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: but I knew a few things. I knew that every 400 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: full fledged witch was the other's equal. For one thing, 401 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: each of these five were black from head to toe, 402 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: despite the warm evening and the heat radiating from the 403 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 1: cobbles beneath their boots. One was roughly my mother's age, 404 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: with the ivory, pale skin and narrow nose of someone 405 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: from the far north. Two of them were as old 406 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: as anyone I'd ever seen. Two of them could scarcely 407 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: have been twenty. One of the youngest had a fresh 408 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: wound cut across her face and stood with the help 409 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: of a crotch. Two of the others had bandaged arms. 410 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: I must have had trouble on the way. Maybe that 411 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: was why they were so late. Most of them were 412 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: armed with spears or axes or swords. The uninjured young 413 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: one carried what looked like a bird cage covered with 414 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: a cloth embroidered in the indecipherable rooms of witchcraft. Behind them, 415 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: a girl my age stood shyly, like she didn't know 416 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: quite what to do. Another recruit, most likely, she wore 417 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: the most beautiful black cloak made of glistening sea wool. 418 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 1: Its hood had a long pointed tail. That was a 419 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: good cloak for a witch. I'm Laurel, I said, I 420 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: lie the best when I sort of just avoid telling 421 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: the truth instead of lying outright, so I didn't mention 422 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: that I only had one name. I stepped forward, one witch. 423 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: One of the crones broke from the line and circled me, 424 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: looking me over. The rest of the witches carried baskets 425 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: of wicker on their backs, but this woman bore a 426 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: casket child sized instead. Laurel of the lead, she said, 427 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: my name was just Laurel, as my family bore no titles. 428 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: But who was I to correct a witch who'd likely 429 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: been born before my long dead great grandmother. She stopped 430 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: in front of me. Do you come willing or merely accepting? 431 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: She asked? There was an old scar on her cheek, 432 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: a crescent moon white against her dark olive skin. I 433 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: come willing, I said, My voice wavered as I spoke. 434 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: What had I gotten myself into? With eyes as old 435 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: and wise as hers, how could she not see right 436 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: through me? The witch smiled. Some of her teeth were yellow, 437 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: some of her teeth were black. One of her teeth 438 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 1: was captain gold, another captain pearl. The contrast between them 439 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: all was unnerving. Not many come willing, not these past years, why, 440 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: I asked. She ignored my question and went back to 441 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: stand in the line. Only a handful of people had 442 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: gathered to see this strange procession. The herbalist, a few farmers, 443 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: the midwife, River's mother. If any one of them said 444 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: anything about me dressed up like a girl, the whole 445 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: plan would fall apart. My mother stood among the onlookers, 446 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: balancing my wicker basket of clothes on her hip, holding 447 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: it by one of the woven shoulder straps. Laurel of 448 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: the lead, I summon you into the order of the 449 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: Vine today and forever you are, Laurel of the Vine. 450 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: I nodded. I knew no courtly manners for an event 451 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: like this. You have anything to bring with you, just clothes, 452 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: I said, My mother walked towards me, then setting the 453 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 1: basket down by my feet. Tears welled in the corners 454 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: of her eyes. You've been like a daughter to me, 455 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: my mother said. She winked and hugged me for a moment. 456 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: Go off and be your best self. The chrome looked 457 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: between me and my mother for a brief moment, as 458 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: if noticing the similarities in our features, but she said 459 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: nothing with no more formality. The line of witches turned 460 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: and walked out of town. I grabbed my basket of 461 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: clothes and hurried after. Hey, I hadn't seen through me. 462 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: I was going to be a witch. I wasn't shaking anymore. 463 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: I was grinning. 464 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yay. 465 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: And that is the first chapter of the Sapling Cage. 466 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: And if you want to hear more of it, you 467 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: have to get the audiobook and you can listen to 468 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: Jackie read you the entire book, which I didn't think 469 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: I was gonna do, like because I don't tend to 470 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: read my own stuff too much. I mean, like, I 471 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: actually have to read this again like a bunch because 472 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: I'm working on the sequels. Right Oh sure, yeah, yeah, 473 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: but like I think I'm gonna listen to audiobook of it. 474 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be fun. 475 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 3: Thank you. 476 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I had a wonderful time working on it, 477 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: just because like there were so many like cool characters, 478 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: and also like I fell in love with the setting 479 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: as well, and also like the concept of like here's 480 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: this coming of age Matt story that's not turfy. Yeah totally, 481 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, like speaking as a former Potterhead like it was. 482 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: It was really really nice to to have like a 483 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: magic story that I got to tell because this was 484 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: the first time I had ever gotten to tell any 485 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: sort of coming of age story as like a trans 486 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: person okay, or if not the first one of the 487 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: first yeah, but yeah, so it it meant a lot 488 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: that I got to like sort of help bring this 489 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: story to life, and I had such a good time 490 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: with it. And I will say this job is a 491 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: lot easier when the writing is good. And the writing 492 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: is so good in this book, So thank you. Even 493 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: if you're not going to listen to me, you should 494 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,719 Speaker 1: buy the book listeners, you should buy the book and 495 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: give it a read, because holy hell, it's a wonderful story. 496 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: Even with the way you're saying about you know, the 497 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: writing itself on something right when I read for this show. 498 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: I find that certain stories are so much easier to 499 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: read than others, just in terms of the number of 500 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: retakes I need to do. And it's interesting because even 501 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: listening to you, like, obviously no one. 502 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: Will hear that you ever had to do any retakes. 503 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: But there's a. 504 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: Couple, right, a few, and but most of the retakes 505 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 2: are kind of like the way that you accidentally read 506 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: it first is the way that's a little bit more natural, 507 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: you know, So just interesting thinking about the way that, Yeah, 508 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: the type of pros like, especially when I read like 509 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: weird old nineteenth century stuff, I'm like, nothing's written in 510 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: the way that you expect it to be, and you know, but. 511 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I don't know. 512 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: It's funny because I'm like usually talk about the text 513 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: or whatever afterwards, but then I'm like, well, I wrote it. 514 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 2: I have both all of the thoughts and none of 515 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: the thoughts. I mean, let me ask you a few 516 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: questions about it. 517 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, So I think I remember when we were 518 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: like talking in pre production about this, you said you 519 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: had started writing this story what like ten years back, almost. 520 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: Ten years back, it was probably twenty sixteen or so. Wow, 521 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 2: eight years or so. 522 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And was there something that sort of like helped 523 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: this story had come to you where there were like 524 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: experiences you had or were you just like, wow, we 525 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: were missing this kind of story. 526 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: There's a couple different things. There's like one that I 527 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: give credit to. Have you read The Song of the Lion, 528 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: a series by Timora Pierce. I have not, but that's 529 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: not the first time I've heard of that series. Yeah, 530 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: it's about a young girl whose brother is promised to 531 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 2: go be a night and doesn't want to be a knight. 532 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: He wants to be a wizard, and so she dresses 533 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 2: up as a boy and goes off and becomes a knight. 534 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: And I read that when I was in fifth grade 535 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: and it blew my little gender confused brain in a 536 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 2: way that I still don't entirely know how to wrap 537 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 2: my head around, Like, oh, yeah, I'm a girl who 538 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 2: likes swords who pretended to be a boy for her 539 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 2: entire childhood, Like you know, I identify with that character. 540 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I wanted to do something kind of 541 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: the other direction. And there's actually a short story that 542 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 2: someone who's sometimes a guest on my other show, Lori 543 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: Penny wrote, I actually don't think it's been published, but 544 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 2: I read it while we were in a writing workshop 545 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: together that had as like a side character a boy 546 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: who went off to become a witch. And so I 547 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: think that that idea was always kind of sitting in 548 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: the back of my mind, and I very like confused 549 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: ideas about you know, gender is like a moving target 550 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: and the way we talk about it as a society 551 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: as a moving target. It's absolutely it's different now than 552 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: it was in twenty sixteen when I came out, And 553 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: it's different in twenty sixteen than it was in two 554 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 2: thousand and four when I, you know, first started calling 555 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: myself Margaret, because I managed to call myself Margaret for 556 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: twelve years before I bothered telling anyone I was a girl. 557 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: Sometimes that's how it goes, I know. 558 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: And like that wasice about like punk scenes, just people 559 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: were like all right, yeah, like yeah, sure, yeah. When 560 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: I was like a street kid, like I remember like 561 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 2: sleeping in Tompkins Square Park and I would do this 562 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: thing where I would wear cargo pants and then a 563 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 2: loose MAXI skirt over it, and so that when I 564 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 2: needed to like boy mode really quickly, I would just 565 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 2: tuck the skirt into the pockets of the cargo pants. 566 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 2: That's a smart move. Yeah, yeah, no, it worked for me. 567 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: And like I remember one time I was like just 568 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 2: like sleeping in the park during the day and then 569 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 2: I like woke up and ran somewhere and I wasn't 570 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 2: thinking about it. My like skirt fell down and all 571 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: the like. They weren't like the cool punks. They were 572 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 2: like the kind of scary punks or whatever. They saw it, 573 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: and they were like, yeah, all right whatever, And I 574 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 2: was like, oh right, folks who live on the edge 575 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: of society don't give a shit about stuff like this. Yeah. 576 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really funny. How like like you said, 577 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: how like gender is this like constantly moving target and 578 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, because like, yeah, that is something 579 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: that I'm still feeling, because like for me, it was 580 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: like I remember being young and like like feeling some 581 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,919 Speaker 1: way about gender but not really having like the vocabulary 582 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: to describe it. I remember like learning what a lesbian 583 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: was and like feeling like, wow, that resonates with me 584 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: for some reason. I guess I'm like a lesbian and 585 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: the body of a young boy. And then I proceeded 586 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: to not think about that for fifteen years. 587 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. 588 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: And then like when I was in high school, I 589 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: started to like develop like attractions to like the boys 590 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 1: my age, and I was like, oh, oh, so I'm gay. Okay, 591 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. And then I ran with 592 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: that until I was in college, and then my freshman 593 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: year I had this way I can only describe as 594 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: a dysphoric breakdown in front of the mirror, okay. And 595 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: then that got me like being like, okay, what is 596 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: this gender stuff? Because stuff is happening. Then I learned 597 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: like about the gender fluid kind of label and non 598 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: binary and just how it's not necessarily like this purely 599 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: defined like man or woman kind of thing, and how 600 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: that was like a thing, and I was like, Okay, 601 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm probably somewhere in that camp. I guess like we'll 602 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,959 Speaker 1: go with like queer ish and then I didn't really 603 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: do anything beyond that. I had like done some research 604 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: into like do I want to transition? Do I not 605 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: want to transition? And like at the time, I was 606 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: like I don't think this is for me, at least 607 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: not right now. Yeah, and then I ran with that 608 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, I'm this queer person who's very like 609 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: male presenting and all of that, and then the pandemic 610 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty happened, and I had all of this 611 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: free time to actually think about like things in life 612 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: and like being like, huh, when faced with the very 613 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: real prospect of my own mortality, am I like any regrets? 614 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: And I was like kind of wish I had explored 615 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: gender a little more, and you know, maybe like dipped 616 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: my toes and so like I don't know, like what's 617 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: HRT about. And then I remember like having those thoughts, 618 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, son of a bitch, Okay, 619 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: I guess I have to do the thing I've been 620 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: avoiding doing. I guess I have to do the thing 621 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: that I've been avoiding thinking about for a while. And 622 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: so I got a therapist and like talked things out, 623 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: and like we both very quickly like came to the 624 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: consensus of like yeah, you're trans yeah, and I was 625 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: able to start HRT hell yeah. But like, yeah, it's 626 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: really funny because like I remember starting like HRT and 627 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: like I was very much like playing with like they 628 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: then she heard she they, I was she they for 629 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: a while, and then I kept getting consistently they themmed 630 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: only and so I was like Okay. I think a 631 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 1: lot of this was from like the the cist people 632 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: in my life who I love dearly. Yeah, I like 633 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: love you all and like, believe me, I was happy 634 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: that y'all were so to practice theay them because that's 635 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: hard for SIS people. 636 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: Right, totally. 637 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: But it eventually got to the point where I was like, 638 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: all right, y'all are constantly they theming me and never 639 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: she she hurrang me, So y'all have lost your day 640 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: them rights and so and so I was like strictly 641 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: she her for a couple of years after that, and 642 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: then it's only recently that I have gone back to 643 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: she they because I was like, Okay, this feels more accurate. 644 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 645 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: And another weird thing that I noticed was like, while 646 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: while transitioning and like allowing myself to like have these 647 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: thoughts and things, was that I realized that I didn't 648 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: suddenly go from the gay man that I thought I 649 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: was to the straight girl m hm. And like I started, 650 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: I started to realize I had like sapphic feelings for 651 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: some women, and I was like, oh, oh, we're by yeah, 652 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 1: son of a bitch. 653 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 3: Okay. 654 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: So over the years, I've resonated with pretty much all 655 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: the letters. Yeah, and I've won a cuer bingo. It's like, 656 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what I win other than bragging rights, 657 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: I say, your quote, but like a combination of oppression 658 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: points and regular oppression. 659 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 660 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 661 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: All this is to say is just that, like, yeah, 662 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: gender is funny. Gender and sexuality are weird and cool, 663 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, it's not always this super defined thing. 664 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 2: I really resonate with what you're saying about. Like, for me, 665 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: the decision to come out in twenty sixteen was that 666 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 2: a transoitman I knew died in the ghost Ship fire 667 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 2: in Oakland, which was a DIY space that burned down, 668 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: and I believe the end of twenty sixteen, and it 669 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 2: was like right before my birthday, and I was just 670 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 2: like and it's awful and selfish, but you know, I 671 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 2: was like, oh, what if I died? Right, So it's 672 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: the same thing. It's like staring at your mortality and 673 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 2: you're like, well, I don't want to be remembered so 674 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 2: completely incorrectly, you know, I like just don't want to 675 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: be like just like imagining in my own tombstone with 676 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 2: like the wrong name on it, you know, And you're 677 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 2: just like, yeah, it's hard and it's hard to imagine that, 678 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 2: and so that was like, yeah, that was a lot 679 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 2: of what made it feel necessary for me to come out. 680 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 2: And it's interesting because in this book, you know, the protagonist, 681 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 2: not to spoil anything, the protagonist is like, you know, 682 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 2: questioning her feelings around gender and like explores it in 683 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 2: a lot of different ways. And one of the things 684 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: I really liked about getting to do this is that 685 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 2: getting to explore gender in a world that just isn't ours, 686 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: Like this isn't like, no one's going to come up 687 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: in this book spoiler, and no one's going to be like, Hi, 688 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 2: I'm she they you know, even though I'm a she 689 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 2: the it was written by SHEI the right. But like, 690 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 2: but since gender is a social construct, it's going to 691 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 2: be constructed differently in a like medieval fantasy setting, and 692 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: that's like one of the things that I really want 693 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 2: to explore with it, and I hope that folks are 694 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: able to kind of get out of it. 695 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I'm so looking forward to reading 696 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: the next installment in the series because just to watch 697 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: how more things develop with this story. And like, certain 698 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: again I won't give spoilers, but yeah, certain relationships and 699 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: friendships and dynamics that developed in this first book, and 700 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: see how they continue to develop and grow. 701 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if folks want to hear what the book is, 702 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 2: you could listen to it. And if you're like, I 703 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 2: hate to say, it's like, it's obviously a book about 704 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 2: a transgirl, but it is not primarily a book about gender. 705 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 2: It is primarily a book about why I like spears. 706 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: It is primarily a book that is a you know, 707 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 2: high fantasy ya about I mean, honestly, the big metaphor 708 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 2: that is in this if you listen to my history podcast, 709 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: you'll understand that I'm obsessed with like the enclosure of 710 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 2: the commons and taking things that are like wild and 711 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 2: communal and putting them into the hands of only a 712 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,919 Speaker 2: few people in a specialized way. And they like how 713 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 2: that's empowered capitalism and all those things. Like that's actually 714 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 2: the the plot, right, The character and the identity of 715 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 2: the character is that she is transfeminine. The plot of 716 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 2: the book is these trees that are dying and what 717 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 2: is to be done about it. So if you're like, well, 718 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,720 Speaker 2: if you hate gender stuff, you're not gonna like this book. 719 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 2: But if you're like not specifically looking for a gender book. 720 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. This isn't specifically a gender book. It 721 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 2: just happens to be right that as well. It just 722 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 2: happens to have a transfemine protagonist. Yeah, and like other 723 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 2: queer people in it too, but it's never At least, 724 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 2: the way it read to me was like it seemed 725 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 2: perfectly natural. It didn't feel like, I know, there are 726 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 2: folks out there who say that we're constantly like shoving 727 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 2: it down their throat or whatever, and I mean, I 728 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 2: can speak for myself here, but like that's not at 729 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 2: all how the text came across to me. But if 730 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 2: you're listening to this and you would like to start 731 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 2: a campaign against this book, all publicity is free publicity, 732 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 2: and so I will pretend that it's a gender book 733 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 2: if I don't know if I actually feel that way, 734 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 2: because like part of me is like ha ha ha 735 00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 2: if I got a list of banned books, like, imagine 736 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 2: what they'll do for my career, And then I'm like, 737 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 2: it also just sucks because I actually want this book 738 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,280 Speaker 2: to be available to kids to read. 739 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: The thing, like, yes, yes, that would definitely get more 740 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: eyes on it. And also I I mean listen, Like, 741 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: I think queer stories are really important, and especially like 742 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: stories like this, Like they're always important, but I feel 743 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: like now, especially yeah, in our current political climate and 744 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: day and age and all of the scariness that has 745 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: been sort of centered around queer and trans people in particular, 746 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: I think this story is like super important and I 747 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 1: think people should read it. I know that, like, at 748 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: least again speaking for myself, if I had gotten to 749 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: read this book as a kid, my life would have 750 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: been very different, yeah, and like positive, Yeah, my life 751 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: would have been really different and I would have figured 752 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: stuff out a lot sooner. 753 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 2: That was a big part of it, as I was like, 754 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 2: I want to write the book that I want to 755 00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,839 Speaker 2: give to twelve year old me. 756 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 3: You know yeah, yeah yeah, all. 757 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think we're kind of out of time, 758 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 2: but thanks for joining us on coolsone Media book Club. 759 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 2: The book is called The Saplink Cage. It comes out 760 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 2: September twenty fourth, twenty twenty four, from Feminist Press, and 761 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 2: you all should listen to the audiobook. Do you have 762 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 2: anything else do you want to plug? You have like 763 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 2: other books that you're like, go out and listen to 764 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 2: this other book I did or what else you've been 765 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 2: working on. 766 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: Oh God, if you want to hear another story like 767 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: narrating like a transperson's perspective, if you listen to five 768 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: part Invention by Andrea J. Buchanan. I got to work 769 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 1: with four other extremely talented narrators on that, and it's 770 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: a heavy story. It deals with like generational trauma, but 771 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: it's very, very well crafted. And I thought that Zoe's 772 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: part of it in particular, which is the character that 773 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: I got to read for, was especially handled with care 774 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: and that was really well done. Another transfer, I recently 775 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: got to read the autobiography of Philip, a writer who 776 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: is this really badass trans writes activist in Ireland, and 777 00:44:58,880 --> 00:44:59,720 Speaker 1: that was really cool. 778 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 2: That sounds cool. 779 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: Other than that, if you're more of like the superhero 780 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,399 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, I've read several Spider Man books as well, 781 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: so you'll check those out. 782 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 2: I mean, there's secretly trans people in the Spider Man world. 783 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, whoops. But I've done a lot of different stuff, 784 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: but I guess those were some of the standouts for me. Okay, 785 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: so I didn't have anything more eloquent to plug or 786 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: to say. 787 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 2: Oh no, you warn me ahead of time that you're 788 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 2: not an improvisor. You work from scripts then I and 789 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 2: then I asked you questions that I didn't warn you 790 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 2: I was going to ask. 791 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,959 Speaker 1: So sorry, it happens, but I encourage everybody to check 792 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: out more of that quality queer literature. 793 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 2: Hell yeah. And if you want to see the two 794 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,320 Speaker 2: of us together in person, us even meeting in person 795 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 2: for the first time. Yes, on October fifteenth at the 796 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 2: ann Arbor District Library at the downtown location at six 797 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 2: thirty pm. I'm going to be on tour with the 798 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: Sapling Cage and it's going to be sweet because instead 799 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 2: of me I'm going to do a reading, I'm going 800 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 2: to make Jackie do it six thirty pm, Octoveber fifteenth, 801 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 2: the ann Arbor District Library and its downtown location. 802 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'm so looking forward to that. 803 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 2: All right, I'll talk to everyone next week. Have a 804 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 2: good week. 805 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: Bye bye. 806 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 2: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 807 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 808 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 809 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,839 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 810 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here. 811 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 2: Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com Slash Sources thanks for listening.