1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. The United States Postal Service has just released 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,079 Speaker 1: a new stamp honoring sculptor and Monia Lewis. It is 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: the forty five stamp in the USPS Black Heritage series. 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: We covered Louis on the show on January eleven, so 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: we're bringing that episode into folks feeds today, so enjoy. 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frying and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And today's subject. 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of art history. It's not a 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: little bit, it's quite a bit of ourt history, but 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: also it ties into abolitionist history. It's also an interesting 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: study of identity and like public presentation, UH. And it 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: also touches on a particularly long and circuitous path that 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: a specific piece of art can sometimes go on before 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: finding its way to the safety of a museum collection. 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: So we're talking today about UH sculptor Edmonia Lewis. Typically, 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: when we're talking about a person as the subject of 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: a podcast, we start with the early life, with their 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: birth and what we know about their parents. And this 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: is one of those cases where it's tricky to do 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: that because Edmonia spoke very little about her childhood and 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: even gave some varying and inconsistent information about her childhood 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: throughout her life. Yeah, this is one of those cases 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: where the subject kind of blurred the picture a little 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: bit themselves. And we'll talk about why she might have 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: done that later on in the episode. But estimates put 27 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: her birth most likely sometime in eighteen forty eight eighty 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: five UH in upstate New York or possibly Ohio. I've 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: also seen it suggested that it could even have been 30 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: New Jersey uh. And she was born as Mary Edmonia Lewis, 31 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: and her father was from the Ribbean and her mother 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: was part of Jibway, and after her parents died when 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: she was still very young she was possibly not even 34 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: five years old at the time, it was her mother's 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: family that raised her. The tribe that her mother had 36 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: been part of was nomadic, and Lewis, who went by 37 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: the name Wildfire when she was among her Native American ken, 38 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: lived that life until the age of twelve. She also 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: had an older brother named Samuel, who was also known 40 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: as Sunrise, and her brother was more than a decade 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: older than she was. In the eighteen forties, he left 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: his relatives in the eastern United States to pursue gold 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: mining in California, who was reasonably successful at it. And 44 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: it was because of her brother's success that Wildfire left 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: the nomadic life of her tribal family to attend school. 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: Samuel actually paid for her to attend a school in 47 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: New York, and eventually, in eighteen fifty nine, Edmonia enrolled 48 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: at the Young Ladies Preparatory department of Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio, 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: and this was also paid or by her older brother, 50 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: and it was during this time that she dropped using 51 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: the name Wildfire completely and switched entirely to Edmonia. She 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: also kind of abandoned her first name Mary. This is 53 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: a significant point in her life as the abolitionist movement 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: was very active at Oberlin and it really impacted her 55 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: as a young student. But two other important things also 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: happened to Edmonia during her college education, both good and bad. 57 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: One was that she developed into a skilled sketch artist, 58 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: and the other is that she was accused of poisoning 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: two other young women at the college who were her 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: roommates with Spanish Fly. According to her accusers, Edmonia served 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: the two of them mulled wine before they went out 62 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: for a sleigh ride with two young men, and while 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: the young women were out on their date, both of 64 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: them became violently ill. This accusation caused an immediate rift 65 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: in the culture of Oberlin. The school was dedicated to 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: aggressive causes and social justice, and prided itself on admitting 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: African Americans and women since the eighteen thirties. The two 68 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: girls Edmonia had allegedly poisoned were white, and a white 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: vigilante mob forms to punish Louis. They seized her and 70 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: beat her, and then left her for dead in a field. 71 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: When she appeared in court weeks later, she had a 72 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: shattered collar bone and needed crutches to walk. Her attackers 73 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: were never brought to justice. Edmonia's lawyer, John Mercer Langston, 74 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: who went on to great fame himself, had argued that 75 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: her roommate's stomach contents were never tested for poisons, so 76 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: that the entire accusation was really hearsay and she was acquitted. 77 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: But it was not the end of her troubles at 78 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: the school. Her reputation was really deeply damaged by scandal. 79 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: Uh there. I read some accounts that suggested that basically 80 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: she couldn't walk anywhere without people whispering about her, which 81 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: I can only imagine had to be terribly demoralizing. And 82 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: she was later accused of stealing art material and she 83 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to register for her final term or graduate 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: as a consequence, and those charges were dropped again for 85 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: lack of evidence, but she still was not allowed to 86 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: complete her degree. This really reminds me of our episode 87 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: on Molly Spotted Elk Yeah the Performer, and how when 88 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: she was working at a camp where the girls she 89 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: was working with really loved her, but and then she 90 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: had all of these accusations as the only Indigenous person 91 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: working at the camp that seemed like we're probably false 92 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: and made against her, not for any real evidence. It's 93 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: very very parallel. So through the financial assistance of her 94 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: brother once more, she moved to Boston, Massachusetts, and while 95 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: Oberlin had exposed her to her art potential and to 96 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: the abolitionist movement, Boston really built on that exposure with 97 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: a lot of new connections. She met abolitionists and journalist 98 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: William Lloyd Garrison and the two became close friends. She 99 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: also met sculptor Edward A. Brackett, via an introduction that 100 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Garrison made between the two of them. Yeah, So, just 101 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: as a little bit of context on those two men. 102 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: William Lloyd Garrison was the publisher of The Liberator, which 103 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: was an anti slavery paper that ran from eighteen thirty 104 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: one until the end of the Civil War in eighteen 105 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: sixty five. And Edward Augustus Brackett, who he had introduced 106 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: in Monia too, was a self taught sculptor, very well 107 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: known for busts and dramatic concepts, including a marble piece 108 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: that he carved depicting a drowned woman and her baby. 109 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: He also served in the Civil War, but then in 110 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies he left behind his career in art 111 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: to head up the Massachusetts Fish and Game Commission. So 112 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: also very fascinating men in and of themselves that could 113 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: be podcast subjects in the future. Through her friendship with 114 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: Brackett and Monia began to sculpt. He served as a 115 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: teacher and a mentor to her. In this new medium. 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: She started creating clay and plaster medallions representing abolitionist leaders, 117 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: including William Lloyd Garrison, Charles Sumner, Wendell Phillips and John Brown, 118 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: and she earned both acclaim and some commercial benefit for 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: her work in the early eighteen sixties. Yes, she is 120 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: one of those cases where she really was able to 121 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: make a living for herself with her art, and her 122 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: rapid rise to fame came from a piece that she 123 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: did in eighteen sixty four, which was a bust of 124 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Colonel Robert Shaw. So the colonel, in case you do 125 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: not recognize that name, was the white Union soldier who 126 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: led the fifty fourth Massachusetts that was the first all 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: black regiment in the Northeast and one of the first 128 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: all black regiments in the war. He also led a 129 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: wage boycott to protest the lesser pay that black soldiers 130 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: received compared to white soldiers. Uh and Shaw died in 131 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: battle at Fort Wagner in July of eighteen sixty three, 132 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: and so he kind of had this very heroic image. 133 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: So this bust was incredibly popular. Lewis made so much 134 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: money selling copies of it that she was able to 135 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: pay her way to travel to Europe. She toured multiple cities, 136 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: including London, Paris, and Florence. But though it seemed briefly 137 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: Florence would be her new home in Europe, she wound 138 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: up settling in Rome, and in eighteen sixty five she 139 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: rented a studio there adjacent to the Piazza Barberini. And 140 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: Rome was a fairly natural choice at the time. It 141 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: was a haven for a number of artists ex pats 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: uh and it was a particularly attractive location for sculptors 143 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: to set up studios because of the ready availability of 144 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: white marble. Additionally, there was an abundance of skilled stone 145 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: cutters in Rome who could take an artist plaster or 146 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: wax model and copy that work into marble. And as 147 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: a sculptor studying the neo classical style that was popular 148 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: among the city's other sculptors at the time, they really 149 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: expanded and refined Louis's skills. But though she had access 150 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: to skilled laborers to assist in her work, she really 151 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: didn't engage many. There are a couple of theories as 152 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: to why she opted to go the more difficult route 153 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: in creating marble pieces. For one, she didn't have a 154 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: lot of extra money to pay for other people's work, 155 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: but for another, she was concerned about debate about the 156 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: purity of a work that had been copied onto marble. 157 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: By other workers who weren't the artist. One of her 158 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: friends had already faced criticism that her work was really 159 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: the artistry of Rome's workmen rather than her own artistic work. 160 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: And Amonia really quickly picked up Italian and she settled 161 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: into Roman culture, and she also made some very close friends, 162 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: one of which we just mentioned. They were both American 163 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: women who were also living in the city. One was 164 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: sculptor Harriet Hosmer, who was the person that had faced 165 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: that criticism that her work was not her own, and 166 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: the other was actress Charlotte Cushman. And the three women 167 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: were part of a larger group of women artists in 168 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Italy at the time that Henry James once described as 169 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: quote that strange sisterhood of American lady sculptors who at 170 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: one time settled upon the Seven Hills of Rome in 171 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: a white Marmorian flock. We'll talk about some of the 172 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: work that Edmonia Lewis created while living in Rome next, 173 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: but before we do, we will pause for a word 174 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: from of our sponsors. As Louis continued to create in 175 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: her new home in Europe, her art reflected themes of 176 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: her deeply held religious beliefs, as well as references to 177 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: the lives of African Americans, though it was certainly not 178 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: confined exclusively to those subjects. This was a period of 179 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: great productivity for Lewis, although unfortunately many of her works 180 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: have not survived and they are lost forever. But after 181 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: she had moved to Rome, she also traveled back and 182 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: forth to the United States pretty frequently to showcase and 183 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: sell her original works as well as plaster copies. One 184 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: of the interesting pieces she created during this time was 185 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: a copy of Michelangelo's Moses. She made this and other 186 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: copies of classical sculptures in order to study them and 187 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: improve her technique. Yeah. This I may be completely naive. 188 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: This sort of blows my mind because her copy is 189 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: quite good, and I just to me, it seems amazing 190 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: that people could just make copies of such a beautiful 191 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: piece and and do it in uh, you know, pretty 192 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: good style. Uh So. In eighteen sixty six she also 193 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: began a series of sculptures featuring Native Americans that were 194 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: inspired by the Longfellow poem The Song of Hiawatha. She 195 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: created a sculpture titled the Old Arrowmaker first, and you'll 196 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: also see this work listed with variations in the title 197 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: such as the Old Indian Arrowmaker and his Daughter or 198 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: simply Arrowmaker. And this piece features a Native American man 199 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: and his daughter as he teaches her how to make arrows, 200 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: and that piece is currently in the collection of the 201 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: Smithsonian American Art Museum. On May twenty one of two 202 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: thousand nine, another sculpture in the Hiawatha series, The Marriage 203 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: of Hiawatha, sold at auction for three hundred and fourteen thousand, 204 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow visited her studio in 205 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: Rome to sit for a bust, and it's likely that 206 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: he saw some of these sculptures that his works had inspired. 207 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: He was among many many people who flocked to Edmonia's studio. 208 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: She became a very popular figure in the art world 209 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: in the second half of the nineteenth century, with a 210 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: really devoted fan base, and and many prominent people visited 211 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: her to have their likenesses sculpted. Yeah, it's definitely one 212 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: of those things that it's sort of hard, I think, 213 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: I know, for me when doing the research to really 214 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: it took me a while to realize, like, oh, she 215 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: was famous, Like you tend to think of art kind 216 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: of doing a artist doing their thing on their own 217 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: in their studios and they sell works that go out. 218 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: But people really did like sort of have this cult 219 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: of celebrity around her, which to me is sort of fascinating. 220 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: So she also created an anti slavery piece in eighteen 221 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: sixty seven which is titled Forever Free, and it shows 222 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: a man and woman breaking free of their bonds, and 223 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: that particular sculpture is now part of the collection of 224 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: Howard University Gallery of Art in Washington, d C. She 225 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: did several chair and pieces in a series, including a 226 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: Wake Sleep and Poor Cupid Awaken a Sleep. Both feature 227 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: would appear to be the same to turibic infants, and 228 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: they are very similar except for the fact that they're 229 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: awake or asleep. Poor Cupid is a depiction of the 230 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: cherub reaching for a rose in the ground, but his 231 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: hand has been ensnared in a trap. The expression on 232 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: cupid space is not a pained grimace, but he looks 233 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: more like petulantly irritated. Awaken a Sleep or both in 234 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: the San Jose Public Library, and Poor Cupid is in 235 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian's collection. I seriously love the expression on Cupid's face. 236 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: In that one, like he just looks so bothered. It's 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: a really really lovely capture of emotion. Uh and funny 238 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: and money. And Lewis continued to create busts as well. 239 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: Those are really like a pretty standard way to keep 240 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: money flowing in, and she made several of them of 241 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: prominent public figures, including President Abraham Lincoln and General Ulysses S. Grant. 242 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: The end of Edmonia Lewis's life story is a lot 243 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: like it's beginning. It's kind of hazy. It was long 244 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: believed that she had lived out the remainder of her 245 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: years in Italy, but in fact she died in London, England, 246 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen o seven. This is pretty new information. It 247 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: was un unearthed by historian Maryland Richardson through diligent efforts 248 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: at tracking down her grave and records of her final years. 249 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: For a long time, her year of death was completely 250 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: inconsistent in any source material, and her place of death 251 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: was pretty much assumed to be Rome. Yeah. Maryland Richardson 252 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: has done a lot of work uh studying in Monia 253 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: Lewis's life and has just a broad broad scope of 254 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: revelatory information uh. And as the eighteen hundreds ended. The 255 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: neo classical style that Lewis had been so skilled in 256 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: was falling out of favor, and Rome had really been 257 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: surpassed by Paris as the vogue city for artists. So 258 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: we know that by nineteen o one, according to census records, 259 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: Lewis had moved to London already she died, it turned 260 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: out of kidney disease. Church records indicate that Lewis was 261 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,359 Speaker 1: laid to rest in London's St Mary's Roman Catholic Cemetery 262 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: for a fee of five pounds fifty two pence according 263 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: to her final wishes. Her death was announced only in 264 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: a British Roman Catholic bulletin called Tablet, and that posting 265 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: made no mention of her art career. Her will listed 266 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Lewis as a sculptor and spinster. And one of the 267 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: more fascinating aspects of Lewis as a historical figure is 268 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: her legacy as a Native American slash African American sculptor. 269 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: It's one of those things where if you just look 270 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: up her name, that's kind of like the very brief 271 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: blurb you'll see like America's first prominent Native American African 272 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: American sculptor. But like her nebulous origin story, there's actually 273 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,239 Speaker 1: a great deal about her that's unclear, and this identity 274 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: becomes very interesting and shifts a little bit, and it seems, 275 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: at least in part to be due to a degree 276 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: of shrewdness on her part. She was pretty comfortable allowing 277 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: press coverage of her work during her life to characterize 278 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: her based largely on that Native American or African American heritage, 279 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: but ignoring the fact that she was well educated and 280 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: really quite worldly. In an interview with The Toast In 281 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: historian Marilyn Richardson said of Edmonia Lewis quote, she worked 282 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: both sides of the street, depending on her audience and 283 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: her patrons. She emphasized her blackness or her her Native 284 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: American origins. She was very savvy about how to keep 285 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: her identity and play and this portrayal of her in 286 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: the press at the time as something of a novelty 287 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: of underkind may have helped elevate her visibility as an artist. 288 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: So that was no small feat for a woman of 289 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: color in the eighteen hundreds. And additionally, press coverage at 290 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: the time that spoke of her as this sort of mysterious, exotic, 291 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: almost childlike creature who had suddenly appeared on the European 292 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: art scene meant that her previous scandals at school could 293 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: pretty much go mentioned. It was like she had divorced 294 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: herself from that life and was creating this new identity 295 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: for her public persona. Next up, we'll talk about one 296 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: of Lewis's most important works, which has its own unique history, 297 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: But first we'll have another quick pause for a word 298 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: from a sponsor. One of Edmonia Lewis's largest sculptures, and 299 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: somebody even argue her most important, was a piece titled 300 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: The Death of Cleopatra, which weighed a whopping two tons, 301 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: and it depicts the Egyptian queen in the moments after 302 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: her suicide, still seated on her throne. And while it 303 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: was not uncommon for artists to represent Cleopatra in the 304 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: moments before her death, Lewis's realistic representation of the actual 305 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: death was actually considered somewhat distasteful by some critics. But 306 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy six, soon after its completion, The Death 307 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: of Cleopatra was shown at the Philadelphia Exposition to a 308 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: great critical reception, and shown again in eighteen seventy eight 309 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: in Chicago. At the Expo, it was one of five 310 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: sculptures on display, but it really stood out. It was 311 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: called quote, the most remarkable piece of sculpture in the 312 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: American section by J. S. Ingram and his books. His 313 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: book about the Expo's Art Offerings Centennial Exposition described and 314 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: illustrated artist William J. Clark Jr. Wrote of the Cleopatra 315 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: statue in quote, this was not a beautiful work, but 316 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: it was a very original and very striking one. Cleopatra 317 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: is seated in a chair, the poison of the asp 318 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: has done its work, and the queen is dead. The 319 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: effects of death are represented with such skill as to 320 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: be absolutely repellent. And it is a question whether a 321 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: statue of the ghastly characteristics of this one does not 322 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: overstep the bounds of legitimate art. Unfortunately, when Edmonia returned 323 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: to Rome, the Death of Cleopatra had to stay behind 324 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: in the United States, because while she hadn't sold it, 325 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: she also couldn't afford the return shipping costs this enormous 326 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: work of art. We have talked before about how it 327 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: can be quite difficult to move large sculptures across an ocean. 328 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: Uh and it went into storage and after Edmonia left 329 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: it in the US, this piece had an interesting life. 330 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: It first reappeared as a piece of decor in a 331 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: Chicago saloon on Clark Street in and then at some 332 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: point it ended up in the possession of a gambler 333 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: named Blind John Condom, who installed the marble piece at 334 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: a racetrack in Forest Park, Illinois. The massive work sat 335 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: on top of a horse's grave. The horse had been 336 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: named Cleopatra, and when the land there was purchased by 337 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: the U. S. Navy to become military housing, the statue 338 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: remained kind of place. A covenant in the properties deed 339 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: that step that stipulated that the horse's grave and its impressive, 340 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: impressive statue had to stay there undisturbed. When the property 341 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: was later purchased by the Edmere Construction Company to build 342 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: a new shopping mall, the statue finally moved. They did 343 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: not care about that covenant apparently, but this time the 344 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: statue just sat in a workyard and was more or 345 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: less forgotten. Some years later, a sister of fire chief 346 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: named Harold Adams was inspecting the property and saw this 347 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: Cleopatrick statue. He was taken with its beauty and wanted 348 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: to help make sure it wasn't completely lost the time, 349 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: so first he moved at the higher ground in the yard. 350 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: He also wanted to try to clean up the sculpture 351 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: because there was graffiti on it, so his son's Scout 352 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: Troupe painted over this graffiti with white latex paint. Adams 353 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: later told the Chicago Tribune that they did so quote 354 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: so she'd look decent until somebody came along he would 355 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: know better what to do for her. And over the 356 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: course of a decade, Adams really did try to kind 357 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: of find a way to get this statue into a 358 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: more proper setting. He placed notices in the paper, and 359 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: sometimes the paper would cover his work as like a 360 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: special interest story, and he did this hoping someone would 361 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: know about its past and come forward to help. And 362 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: eventually a few people did start to share in for 363 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: nation about the sculptures time as a grave marker, and 364 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: this got the attention of the Forest Park Historical Society. 365 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: The historical group took possession of the statue in the 366 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and they moved her to a shopping mall 367 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: storage area, and then in the president of the Historical 368 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: Society a dentist named Frank Orland reached out to the 369 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: New York Metropolitan Museum of Art for any possible information 370 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: about the artist because her name was carved in the 371 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: back of the sculpture. The museum connected with Marilyn Richardson, 372 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: who had been researching and Monia Lewis, and gave the 373 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: historian Orlans phone number. Initially, Orland didn't return her calls. 374 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: Sir Richardson flew to Chicago to find him. He allowed 375 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: her to see the statue still in the Forest Park 376 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Mall storeroom right along with all the seasonal decorations, and 377 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: initially it seemed like there was some tension between them. 378 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: While the Forest Park Historical Society felt that the marble 379 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: piece was part of their history, Richardson worked to convince 380 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: Orland and his colleagues the statute is import in the 381 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: larger context of American art history. Yeah, it's kind of funny. 382 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: There's one article that will be in the show notes 383 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: that was one of my sources, where it is a 384 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: contemporary article from when this discovery had really come to 385 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: light and they were trying to figure out what was 386 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: going to happen with it, and the quotes from each 387 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: of them are like these very stilted I don't want 388 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: to do what they want to do. Like he very 389 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: clearly doesn't want somebody coming in and telling the historical 390 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: society what to do with They're fine, and she is 391 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: very concerned that they don't appreciate what this piece of 392 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: art is. It's quite quite uh. Yeah, it's very carefully worded, 393 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: but you can tell there is tension going on. But 394 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: eventually the Art Institute of Chicago and the Smithsonian Museum 395 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: came into the picture. George Gurney, the American Art Museum 396 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: sculpture expert, advocated on behalf of the Smithsonian to assure 397 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: Orland that the museum really would be the best home 398 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: for Lewis's historically significant work, and the Smithsonian was finally 399 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: allowed to take possession of the piece and it was 400 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: restored for display at the Smithsonian American Art Museum's Loose 401 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: Foundation Center, where it remains. This restoration was intensive and 402 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: it cost thirty thousand dollars. There's only one existing photograph 403 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: of the work and its original condition to work from, 404 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: and several pieces of the sculpture had broken off. Several 405 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: fingers on Cleopatra's right hand had to be replaced, as 406 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: well as the asp that claimed her life and the 407 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: sandals on her feet. Restoration work was carried out with 408 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: extreme care and a manner that can be reversed and 409 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: edited should better source material come about about what this 410 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: sculpture looked like in its original state. And and now 411 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: it still sits in the Smithsonian's collection, which I love. Uh. 412 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful and it is very striking sculpture. Uh. 413 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: And today Oberlin College, where Edmonia went to school, is 414 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: actually home to the Edmonia Lewis Center for Women and 415 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: Transgender People. The center is, according to its website quote, 416 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: a collection of students, staff, and administrators who strive to 417 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: transform existing systems of oppression based on sex, gender, race, class, sexuality, 418 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: age ability, size, religion, nationality, ethnicity, and language. Lewis's own 419 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: sexual orientation remains kind of nebulous, Similarly to her early 420 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: and last years of her life. She was rumored during 421 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: her life to have had romantic relationship with the women, 422 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: but these claims really are really very difficult to substantiate. 423 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: One way or the other. Accounts of her life will 424 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: sometimes suggest that this whole poisoning incident that she was 425 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 1: accused of in college was actually an instance of her 426 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: attempting to use authorities, which is Spanish fly and the 427 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: hopes of catalyzing a sexual encounter with her roommates and 428 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: her close knit group of female friends in Italy is 429 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: similarly hinted at as being sexual in nature. But while 430 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: she never married or seemed to have any publicly known 431 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: relationships of any kind, and she sometimes dressed in men clothing, 432 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: she never identified on the record in any particular way. Yeah, 433 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: So it's one of those cases where I know she 434 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: is often she does often show up in like lgbt 435 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: lgbt Q histories um as as an artist that they 436 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: would claim as their own, which is great that she's 437 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: getting exposure, but she never you know, we usually don't 438 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: like to assign any sort of sexual identity to someone 439 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: after they are no longer with us to speak for themselves. Right. Well, 440 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: we've we've we've had some like episodes and listener males 441 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: before we've talked about how like it's really important to 442 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: talk about the broad spectrum of human relationships and history 443 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: and identities and how people have lived their lives. But 444 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: at the same time, like it's I think really important 445 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: to both of us not to just assign people identities. Yeah, 446 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to assume anything. I mean, it's there 447 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: could be any number of of points on the spect 448 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: room where she was, uh, And since she was not 449 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: willing to give up that information, the rest is conjecture, 450 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: so certainly possible. But I would not claim anything is 451 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: fact because we just don't know. And that is said 452 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: Monia Lewis who She's one of those those people that 453 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: I had in the back of my mind for a 454 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: long time but never actually put her on a list, 455 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: and I don't know why. And then I was doing 456 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: research for another thing and I stumbled across her and 457 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: I had that moment of why have we not done her? 458 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: On the podcast? Well, I had the opposite, like, even 459 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: even though uh, I don't consider myself to be like 460 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: completely ignorant about art, it was not a name I 461 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: really recognized. And then I googled her and went, oh, 462 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: this seems awesome. Yeah, And it is one of those 463 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: things that makes you It makes me anyway think about 464 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: kind of how easily people are lost to the passage 465 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: of time. Because she was very fame in the eighteen sixties, 466 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties, so for her to be 467 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: a name that people don't always know now, it's a 468 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: very interesting transition to have happened. And the sculptures there's 469 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: there are photos of a lot of her sculptures online 470 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: and they are beautiful. Yeah there, I mean, her marble 471 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: work is just so striking. Like I said, that expression 472 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: on Cupid gets me every time. Uh it says sixty chuckle. 473 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: It's very fun. I like that he looks really your 474 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: ta Heay so much for joining us on this Saturday. 475 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: Since this episode is out of the archive, if you 476 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: heard an email address or a Facebook U r L 477 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: or something similar over the course of the show, that 478 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: could be obsolete now. Our current email address is History 479 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: Podcast at I heart radio dot com. 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