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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we just want you home.

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Speaker 1: Tri State Mom Amy Owen's vanishes tonight, her family joining

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Speaker 1: us desperate for Amy's return. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: A mother of three vanishes without a trace after a

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Speaker 2: series of disturbing text messages.

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Speaker 3: This is your mama. I love you and I wanted

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Speaker 3: to just hear your handsome voice and tell you how

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Speaker 3: much I missed you.

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Speaker 1: Where is beloved mother? Amy? Put yourself in the family's shoes.

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Speaker 1: Now that's something. As a trial lawyer in criminal law,

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Speaker 1: you are never allowed to ask a jury to do

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Speaker 1: put themselves in the shoes of the victim. But tonight

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm asking you to do in our search

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Speaker 1: for Amy. Joining us an incredible panel. But first I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go out to two special guests in joining us,

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Speaker 1: Robin and Kila, the daughter and daughter in law of

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Speaker 1: Amy Owens. Ladies, thank you for being with us. First,

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Speaker 1: to Robin, this is Amy's daughter. When did you realize

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Speaker 1: your mom is missing?

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Speaker 4: If you look back at the text messages, it stopped

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Speaker 4: and I knew something was wrong. We always had a

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Speaker 4: pretty good conversation. So once that happened, I just knew

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Speaker 4: something was going on.

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Speaker 1: You knew instinctively, Yes, so you text a lot with

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Speaker 1: mom Amy and you noticed it suddenly the texts weren't

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Speaker 1: being returned, and you knew then something was wrong. Is

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Speaker 1: that what you're saying, Robin, Yes, okay, I just want

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Speaker 1: to follow up on that very quickly before we go forward,

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Speaker 1: because Robin, as you know, when you're building a case,

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Speaker 1: you look at every single fact and everything it can

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Speaker 1: show what it can prove. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons,

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Speaker 1: joining US Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Why Fitzgibbons tonight.

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Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons leads a team of investigators that travel the world

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Speaker 1: literally finding and extracting missing people. He is a former

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Speaker 1: Marine an Iraqi war vet. Brian, right there. Can I

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Speaker 1: tell you how many times that I have had witnesses

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Speaker 1: tell me, well, she didn't return my call. And that's

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Speaker 1: very unusual. With my twins who are eighteen, and my

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Speaker 1: husband we text throughout the day. We rarely call, but

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Speaker 1: we text, and if I don't hear back from them,

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Speaker 1: I know something's off. It could be something as simple

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Speaker 1: as John Davids in the middle of a physics test,

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Speaker 1: or Lucy's in one of her habitat humanity meetings. It

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Speaker 1: could be anything like that. But I know something is

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Speaker 1: not the routine. And I've had a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: timelines start with failure to respond to a text. So

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Speaker 1: what Robin Hunter is saying in my mind is the

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Speaker 1: beginning of my timeline.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, And we have to realize that these devices that

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Speaker 6: we live with really add into what we would call

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Speaker 6: a pattern of life. So these texts not being responded

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Speaker 6: to in a timely fashion is a major departure from

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Speaker 6: a routine in that in Amy Owen's pattern of life

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Speaker 6: in communicating with their children. And adding one thing to this,

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Speaker 6: and I know that Robin and Kylie can probably add

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Speaker 6: to this. It's been reported that there was issues with

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Speaker 6: her speakerphone, that she wasn't speaking on the phone with people,

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Speaker 6: that just texts were coming in. So a break, a

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Speaker 6: major departure in a pattern of life is certainly a

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Speaker 6: beginning of a timeline.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we've had cases start with timelines with

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Speaker 1: the barking of a dog, and the you know, ultimate

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Speaker 1: case in that is the oj Simpson double murder. Of

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Speaker 1: his wife and Ron Goldman, his ex wife. I might

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Speaker 1: add the dog Akita had a quote plaintive. Well, that

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Speaker 1: was the witnesses description, not mine. In the Nancy Guthrie case,

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Speaker 1: we have a dog her backyard. Neighbor's dog began barking

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Speaker 1: crazily around two a m. Which is around the time

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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie was kidnapped. So timelines can start in many

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Speaker 1: many ways. The significance is when you start your timeline,

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Speaker 1: you rule scenarios in or out. You will people in

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Speaker 1: or out based on their alibis, based on various players

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Speaker 1: movements at that time. For instance, if mom Amy had

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Speaker 1: been let's see, driving cross country to visit a girlfriend

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Speaker 1: at that time, that's when that's where we'll start looking.

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Speaker 1: If she had been going to the mall at that time,

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Speaker 1: that's where we start looking. So the timeline is critical.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear Amy in her own voice,

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Speaker 1: in her own words.

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Speaker 3: Listen, Yes, I am trying to reach mister Kylon Hurt.

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Speaker 3: This is your mama. I love you and I wanted

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Speaker 3: to just hear your handsome voice and tell you how

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Speaker 3: much I missed you. I was thinking about you, the

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Speaker 3: kids and Jackie and how much you just made me

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Speaker 3: smile from ear to ear. I'm so proud of you, Kylin,

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Speaker 3: to hear you have a voicemail about your own company.

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Speaker 3: You amaze me every day. I love you, I missed you,

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Speaker 3: and I just wanted you to know I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about you. Give me a call whenever you get a chance.

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Speaker 3: Kiss the kids, please, I love you.

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Speaker 1: Goodbye. You can hear the love coming out of her

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Speaker 1: voice for her son right there. And I don't believe

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Speaker 1: there's any way that she would intentionally separate herself from

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Speaker 1: her children. Back to Robin Hunter, this is Amy's daughter.

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Speaker 1: So you notice your mom is not texting back anymore,

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Speaker 1: What if anything do you do at that time?

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Speaker 4: So at that point, I didn't really have much I

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Speaker 4: was able to do, but we started making like missing

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Speaker 4: people missing person reports on Facebook. We texted a lot

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Speaker 4: of her friends asking if they've heard from her. From

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Speaker 4: her as well, we reached out to Lansar to have

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Speaker 4: them post something like a flyer for her as well.

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Speaker 1: What was her frame of mind, Robin, when you last

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Speaker 1: spoke to your mom or last texted with her, what

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Speaker 1: could you glean?

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Speaker 4: I know she was she was going through a lot

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Speaker 4: at that point in time. That's but she's always been like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, It's really hard to explain.

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Speaker 1: In addition to Robin Hunter, this is Amy missing mom.

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Speaker 1: Amy Owens' daughter is her daughter in law. Uh two

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Speaker 1: of them, Kela Johnson and Jackie Hurt, both Amy's daughters

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Speaker 1: in law, trying to find their mother in law. Amy

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Speaker 1: Owens to Kla, thank you so much for being with

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Speaker 1: us tonight, Keyla. Now, your mom seemingly dropped off the

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Speaker 1: map around the time that she stopped texting. What do

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Speaker 1: you recall of that time period?

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Speaker 7: At one point then it just stopped and we realized that,

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Speaker 7: you know, something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: What is her relationship with her son? I know she's

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Speaker 1: got a great relationship with Robin. What about with her son.

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Speaker 7: She always had a good relationship with Michael. They always

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Speaker 7: stayed in communication. You know, they're very close.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now, Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney Sumner, who

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Speaker 1: has been investigating the case for self. Sidney, let's just

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. What do we know?

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Speaker 8: Well, we know that Amy has a close relationship with

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Speaker 8: her three grown children, with her five grandchildren, she enjoys

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Speaker 8: spending time with them. She's visiting on a very frequent basis,

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Speaker 8: and then she starts to kind of disappear. The communication

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Speaker 8: slows down, she isn't coming by as frequently. It's harder

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Speaker 8: and harder to get her to respond to your calls,

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Speaker 8: to your text messages. And the last thing they know

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Speaker 8: is she sends a text I'm with this person, I'm

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Speaker 8: in Kentucky, and that's it. That's the last time anyone

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Speaker 8: ever hears from Amy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to follow up on what you just said,

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Speaker 1: but I also want to establish Sydney, what was her

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Speaker 1: normal routine that I'll circle back to Kentucky. Rove has

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Speaker 1: Gibbons USPA Nationwide security is so important to establish the

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Speaker 1: daily routine of the victim, what they were doing on

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Speaker 1: a typical day, because when that is interrupted or disrupted,

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Speaker 1: that also helps you set your timeline. Agree, disagree, absolutely agree.

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Speaker 6: Routine habits pattern her life. Right, So we have an

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Speaker 6: event here when Amy went missing, and you know, we

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Speaker 6: can look at this leading up, the time leading up

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Speaker 6: to that event as the fuse and then the blast

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Speaker 6: is the last time we hear from her, right, So

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Speaker 6: that pattern of life, establishing the routine of where she is,

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Speaker 6: who she's with, who she's communicating with, what her plan

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Speaker 6: and locate. This is a very basic victimology that we

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Speaker 6: would start with to make sure we have a full

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Speaker 6: understanding of the full scope or.

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Speaker 9: Business books.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Well, here's an example, Brian

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Speaker 1: and the Nancy Guthrie search. When she did not show

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Speaker 1: up the morning on a Sunday morning with her group

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Speaker 1: of friends that they got together every Sunday morning to

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Speaker 1: live stream the church service. They would get together every

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Speaker 1: Sunday since COVID to live stream the church service. When

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Speaker 1: she didn't show up, that's when everyone was alerted she

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Speaker 1: was missing because she broke routine. You're absolutely right straight

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Speaker 1: out to Jackie Johnson, this is Amy's daughter in law

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Speaker 1: Jackie regarding her DLA routine. What was her last job

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Speaker 1: before she went missing?

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Speaker 10: Her last job was it was an act throwing job

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Speaker 10: that she absolutely loved.

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Speaker 1: So, Jackie hurt, you stated your mom had an ax

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Speaker 1: throwing job. What is that?

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Speaker 10: She was an instructor and so she would teach people

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Speaker 10: how to throw the axes and kind of like deal

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Speaker 10: with the parties and stuff, and it kind of became

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Speaker 10: a her own personal hobby. Honestly, she absolutely adored it.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you say she would set up deal with

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Speaker 1: the parties, what do you mean like groups?

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Speaker 10: So the way it's set up as groups of people

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Speaker 10: would come in and like, I mean it could it

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Speaker 10: could range from just it's.

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Speaker 8: Like yeah, like a group or like a person.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, they just go in for like a you know,

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Speaker 7: weekend activity or something.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Two. Doctor Janey Lacey joining US, license psychotherapist, CEO of

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Speaker 1: Life Counseling Solutions, and author of How to Heal from

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Speaker 1: a Toxic Relationship. She's the host of Let's Talk About

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Speaker 1: It with Janiue Lacy daughter Jennie, Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. You know, a lot of people have varying

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Speaker 1: degrees of social connection. They go out every night, they

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Speaker 1: rarely go out their home bodies, but their job is

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Speaker 1: something that typically is routine. In other words, they rarely

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Speaker 1: miss work. And hearing about her job that she loves

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Speaker 1: so much makes me consider that part of this equation

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Speaker 1: because if she doesn't show up for the job or

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Speaker 1: she leaves the job, I find that significant.

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Speaker 11: I find that significant as well, because when women who

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Speaker 11: genuinely love their work or they enjoy that part of

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Speaker 11: their their life, they don't generally just walk away from

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Speaker 11: their lives. They tend to leave gradual signals whether they've

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Speaker 11: become distanced, there's some type of conflict or detachment. So

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Speaker 11: what it sounds like what Amy's family's describing is the.

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Speaker 9: Opposite that she was engaged, that she loved her job.

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Speaker 11: If she considered it a hobby, right, I would think

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Speaker 11: that that was probably rebuilding. So it's not typical that

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Speaker 11: you would just leave those things behind voluntarily, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just a job. She's an AX throwing expert.

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Speaker 1: And the class was near Cincinnati, about a thirty minute

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Speaker 1: drive from where she was in Goshen, So it's not

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Speaker 1: just a job, it's something she loves doing. To Jackie

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Speaker 1: Hurt joining us, this is Amy's daughter in law, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: what do you and Kila? I want to refer find

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Speaker 1: this Remember about the time the few days, the weeks

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Speaker 1: surrounding the time that Amy seemingly disappears. What is your recollection?

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Speaker 10: I recollect the communication really really slowed down. We know

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Speaker 10: that she had left her job a couple months prior

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Speaker 10: to her disappearance, and she it was around January her

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Speaker 10: phone service got shut off, and that's when we were

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Speaker 10: guessing she was on Wi Fi and it was very

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Speaker 10: very slim communication if we even got any at all.

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Speaker 10: And her last known like physical appearance with our family

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Speaker 10: was July twenty third of twenty twenty four at her

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Speaker 10: grandmother's house. After that, everything else is over the phone.

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Speaker 10: We don't really know.

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Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner joining us from crime stories now. According to

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Speaker 1: Ohio's Brown County Sheriff's Office, Amy was last seen on

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Speaker 1: Goshen Road in Goshen. What do we know about the

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Speaker 1: circumstances of her last known spotting?

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Speaker 8: I think that was at her grandmother's house. Amy was

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Speaker 8: visiting family. She was keeping up with her kids and

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Speaker 8: her grandchildren, and after that, that's when she disappeared. She

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Speaker 8: was communicating only over WiFi. She didn't have cell service

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Speaker 8: in between, so her phone did not work unless she

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Speaker 8: had a Wi Fi connection. And the last conversation she

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Speaker 8: had with anyone was March thirtieth. And her children are

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Speaker 8: worried at this point. They are concerned. They're threatening to

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Speaker 8: do a wellness check because they know that something is

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Speaker 8: off in their communications with their mother. But unfortunately they

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Speaker 8: don't know where she is, and Amy doesn't communicate where

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Speaker 8: she is. The only thing that they know from Amy

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Speaker 8: was that she was staying with a romantic partner in Kentucky,

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Speaker 8: and just Kentucky. She did not elaborate. And there are

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Speaker 8: several cities within two hours. Lexington Louisville are both within

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Speaker 8: two hours of Cincinnati, so those could be places where

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Speaker 8: she could end up, but she could be six hours away.

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Speaker 8: So we really are going off of very little to

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Speaker 8: try and figure out where Amy might be now.

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Speaker 1: This mom, Amy Owens, incredibly family oriented, always kept contact

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Speaker 1: with family, never missing a holiday, Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, special

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Speaker 1: occasions with all of her children. A loving mom of

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Speaker 1: three children, grandma of five children who love her, desperate

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Speaker 1: to bring her home. Amy Owens five to three, one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five pounds, bright hair some times highlighted,

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes. The family conducting searches on their own.

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Speaker 1: How could a loving mother and grandmother just disappear vanish

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Speaker 1: off the face of the earth. I guarantee you she

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Speaker 1: didn't just vanish. Take a look at Amy Owens the

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Speaker 1: tip line nine three seven three seven eight four four

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Speaker 1: three five repeat nine three seven three seven eight four

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Speaker 1: four three five.

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Speaker 2: Amy Owens' children are distraught and desperately searching for answers

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Speaker 2: after their beloved mother disappears into thin air.

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Speaker 3: How much you just made me smile from ear to ear.

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Speaker 3: I'm so proud of you, Kylen. You amaze me every day.

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Speaker 3: I love you, I missed you, and I just wanted

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Speaker 3: you to know I was thinking about you.

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Speaker 5: What's ever happened or no matter what's ever going on,

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Speaker 5: she has always come back to her safe place. So

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Speaker 5: I definitely have strong belief that this is not her will,

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Speaker 5: that this is not something she has chose to do.

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Speaker 5: It would mean the world to us if we could

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Speaker 5: get a tip of which way to look. I don't

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Speaker 5: necessarily like the word closure.

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Speaker 9: Because that could mean a multitude of things.

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Speaker 5: I would really strongly say, we want answers.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing from our friends at Fox fifty six

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Speaker 1: and Les eighteen. Amy Owen's family desperate tonight for answers.

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Speaker 1: Please put yourself just for a moment in their shoes.

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Speaker 1: Mom Gone no leads, joining us an all star panel

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Speaker 1: to make sense of what we know about Amy's disappearance,

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Speaker 1: seemingly vanishing off the face of the earth. We've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about tex suddenly stopping becoming sporadic as stopping.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at some of the last texts

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Speaker 1: and try to determine what, if anything, we can glean.

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Speaker 1: She says, what do you mean, what's going on with me? Response?

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to get a hold of you for

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Speaker 1: the last two days. What's going on with you? You don't

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Speaker 1: answer two days? I need to talk to you. Can

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Speaker 1: you call me? Okay, just forget it? Why are you

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Speaker 1: so distant? And it goes on. I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: a wellness check on you if you don't answer. I'm okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going through a lot, says Amy. And you

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Speaker 1: can't talk to me. Nobody's heard from you. I'm worried.

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Speaker 1: Erica said, you're with someone named Jeff and more. Are

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Speaker 1: you alive? Yes? Sorry, A lot going on, just checking

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Speaker 1: on you. Stay safe. We're supposed to be having bad storms.

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Speaker 1: You guys stay safe too. What have you been up

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Speaker 1: to answer? Please need to ask a serious question about

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Speaker 1: my kid? Hello? What is going on with you? Hello?

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Speaker 1: Question mark? Question mark? Question mark? And then the texts end.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that happening when you're texting your mother

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Speaker 1: straight out to special guests joining us, Doctor Jane Lacy,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jamie. When that's your only connection, the only way

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Speaker 1: you're speaking to your mom, she's not calling back. You

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Speaker 1: tell all you're going to do a wellness check. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem to make an impression because my mom will

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Speaker 1: say no, no, no, don't call police. I'll call you right now.

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Speaker 1: Amy didn't do that, which makes me suspicious. Was that

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Speaker 1: not even Amy on those texts? See where I'm going

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Speaker 1: with this? And then in addition to the wellness check,

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Speaker 1: they try a soft spot, Hey, I need to ask

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Speaker 1: you an important question about your grandchild. She still didn't

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Speaker 1: call doctor Janey.

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Speaker 11: Now I would agree with you, Nancy, that I would

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Speaker 11: be looking at it and to one if that was

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Speaker 11: her norm of communicating with her kids, kind of brushing

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Speaker 11: them off, And if it wasn't, then the possibility absolutely

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Speaker 11: could be with someone else that had her phone that

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Speaker 11: potentially was communicating on her behalf, or was she so

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Speaker 11: occupied or preoccupied with whatever was happening in that moment

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Speaker 11: when potentially in survival mode or just in panic mode,

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Speaker 11: was pressed to really focus on whatever is happening in

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Speaker 11: front of her. But that would be as we're talking

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Speaker 11: about patterns and routine and habits, and how someone normally communicates.

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Speaker 11: That would normally be the baseline, especially if it was

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Speaker 11: out of her norm to communicate or brush off her family,

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Speaker 11: especially when it came to her grandkids, because it sounded

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Speaker 11: like she was such a loving grandmother, which would put,

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Speaker 11: in my opinion, out of her norm.

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Speaker 1: Back to Brian fitz Gibbons, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security,

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Speaker 1: specializing in finding missing people. That's why he's joining us

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Speaker 1: here tonight along with Amy's family. I want to hear

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Speaker 1: your thoughts and how you would approach this.

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Speaker 6: The first and obvious approach here is Jeff Okay, this

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Speaker 6: individual who Amy communicated that she was with him and

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Speaker 6: by the way, also communicated to family members.

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Speaker 9: It's been widely reported that she was.

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Speaker 6: Planning on potentially leaving him, looking at vehicles on Facebook

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Speaker 6: marketplace and not having a good time with Jeff, that.

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Speaker 9: There were issues in that relationship.

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Speaker 6: So the focus really needs to be on finding out

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Speaker 6: when did she encounter this Jeff, Where did they first meet?

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Speaker 6: Someone knows who Jeff is, someone knows where Jeff is from,

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Speaker 6: someone knows where he resides, and that is the immediate focus.

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Speaker 6: Finding Jeff will unlock being able to find Amy.

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Speaker 1: Sidney Sonner joining US Crimes Toys investigative reporter Sidney, How

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Speaker 1: does this guy named Jeff facked her into the timeline?

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Speaker 8: She told her family she was staying with Jeff and

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Speaker 8: mentioned that she wasn't very comfortable with him. This wasn't

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Speaker 8: someone she trusted and she felt like she wasn't in

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Speaker 8: a great situation. But Jeff is the last known person

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Speaker 8: to be with Amy, and Amy tells her family she's

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Speaker 8: staying with him in Kentucky, so he fits in. He

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Speaker 8: is one of the last people to possibly have seen Amy.

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Speaker 1: Well, hold on beef, it's gibbons. Wouldn't this be a

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Speaker 1: matter of if she's texting I'm with Jeff. Wouldn't this

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Speaker 1: be a matter of triangulating her phone finding out where

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Speaker 1: she was? I mean, we see it happen in cases

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Speaker 1: all the time. That's move number one. Where was her

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Speaker 1: lap own last known to be?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think in this case it now becomes

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Speaker 6: a matter of resources devoted by law enforcement to this case. Now,

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Speaker 6: I think the the immediate thing is the family. I

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Speaker 6: believe the family has this phone number for Jeff. If

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Speaker 6: they do, I'm certainly willing to help on any way

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Speaker 6: that I can, but the first step is finding Jeff.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me let me follow up with that to

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Speaker 1: Keyla Johnson and Jackie Hurt, the daughters in law, Amy,

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Speaker 1: Jackie or Killa. Is that correct? We have a phone

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Speaker 1: number for Jeff?

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Speaker 8: I don't know.

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Speaker 10: I don't know if we specifically have a phone number,

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Speaker 10: but they were able to locate a Jeff in her

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Speaker 10: phone with an address in Pineville, Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, hold on, that's significant. Pinesville, Kentucky. Are pine

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Speaker 1: is in a pine tree? Okay? When you say they

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Speaker 1: were able to locate an address for Jeff, who is they?

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Speaker 10: We heard it from the Brown County Sheriff's office.

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Speaker 1: Great, that's good news. So they don't have her actual phone,

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Speaker 1: but they have accessed it through the cloud. Is that right?

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Speaker 7: It basically did, and they've got a search warrant to

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Speaker 7: for a Verizon for her phone records. So we essentially

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Speaker 7: had a call log of like the numbers that were

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Speaker 7: in contact with Amy's phone.

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Speaker 1: That is huge. That's the first good news I've heard tonight. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, stop everything, Jackie Kila, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: Christmas morning. Why if it's Gibbons? If they have accessed

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Speaker 1: her phone through pursue it to search warrant, and they've

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Speaker 1: gotten Jeff's address, then what are we waiting on?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think to clarify that and the family can

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Speaker 6: correct me here. But I believe they found someone named

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Speaker 6: Jeff in her phone and a phone number, and that

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Speaker 6: phone number is registered to the location of Pineville, Kentucky.

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Speaker 6: So it brings us back to hey, resources, can the

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Speaker 6: family identify who Jeff was, how they met, when they met,

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Speaker 6: where they met, where they went.

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Speaker 9: These are the next steps.

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Speaker 1: So Brian, you lost me and your reasoning. If they

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Speaker 1: know where the phone was registered and address, whether he

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Speaker 1: lives there or not, that is a lead. You go

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Speaker 1: to that address, you find out who lives there, if

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Speaker 1: they know Jeff, if they have seen Amy, and you

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Speaker 1: go from there. I mean, it's got to be something

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Speaker 1: to him, wouldn't you think his lka, last known address,

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Speaker 1: his childhood home where he was living at the time.

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Speaker 1: It could be any number of addresses. So I'm sensing

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Speaker 1: from you that's a dead end, But I don't agree.

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Speaker 1: Why are you saying that?

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Speaker 9: So here's the deal.

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Speaker 6: You can go to Walmart and buy a burner phone,

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Speaker 6: right that burner phone is going to have a number.

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Speaker 6: That number will have a location assigned to it. Okay,

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Speaker 6: and in this case, that location is Pineville, Kentucky.

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Speaker 9: That number was.

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Speaker 6: Saved in Amy's phone with the name Jeff, so law

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Speaker 6: enforcement didn't necessarily get a registration saying Jeff with a

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Speaker 6: last name, last known address.

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Speaker 9: What they had was listed in Amy's phone.

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Speaker 6: Manually typed in, Jeff, here's this number. And I'm speculating here,

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Speaker 6: but let's say it's a burner phone, a prepaid phone.

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Speaker 6: That phone would not have a full registration. We just

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Speaker 6: have an idea on where it was purchased.

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Speaker 5: Mom, if you hear this, it's time to come home.

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Speaker 2: From our friends at w k RC, an Ohio family

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Speaker 2: is torn apart when their mother, Amy Owens, goes missing.

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Speaker 2: Endless texts and calls from their children left unanswered.

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Speaker 1: The search is on for a missing mom, Amy Owens,

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Speaker 1: last known to be with a new friend named Jeff.

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Speaker 1: That's all we know. Straight out to doctor Jane Lacy, psychotherapist,

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Speaker 1: CEO Life Counseling Solutions. You can find her a Jane

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Speaker 1: Lacy dot com. Now we are hearing her daughter, her

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Speaker 1: daughter's in law, talking about how she was not happy

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Speaker 1: with this relationship with Jeff and considering ending it. The

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Speaker 1: single most dangerous time for women is when they either

434
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: a or pregnant. Homicide the number one cause of death

435
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: amongst pregnant women. Not hypertension, high blood pressure, not just

436
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: stational diabetes, No, not heart attack, It's homicide. I could

437
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: not believe that stat when I first learned about it,

438
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: and I actually cross examined on air the author of

439
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: the article in the New England Journal of Health, and

440
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: she was right. I didn't believe it until I spoke

441
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: to her and questioned her doctor Jamie, but she's absolutely correct.

442
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: The statistics bear it out. Pregnancy and when you're trying

443
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: to leave the relationship. I learned that as a volunteer

444
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: at the Better Women's Center hotline explain why that it's

445
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: such a dangerous time for women and possibly for amy well.

446
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 11: Women with histories of domestic violence or toxic relationships, they

447
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 11: are significantly elevated risk when they're attempting to leave or

448
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 11: transition the relationship because the person who would be not

449
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 11: wanting to leave is losing control. They're losing control, and

450
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 11: then that becomes a single most important part when the

451
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 11: person who is the batterer or the perpetrator. When they

452
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 11: lose the control, they try to gain the control, and

453
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 11: this is where the where the danger happens. But you

454
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 11: know what I would want people to know and understand

455
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 11: about this in particular, Nancy, it's not about when we

456
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 11: think about the women in these relationships. It's not about

457
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 11: stupidity or making a wrong choice. It is not about

458
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 11: the choices they make when women grow up or live

459
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 11: for years in environments where love comes with danger or

460
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 11: the brain. It's because the brain literally wires itself to

461
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 11: associate potentially intimacy with intensity, which is with volatility. So

462
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 11: they keep finding men who feel familiar, even when familiar

463
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 11: is harmful. And it's what we call a trauma bond,

464
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 11: and without intervention, those bonds are incredibly powerful. So Amy

465
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 11: may have known something was wrong in her relationship, especially

466
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 11: if her family's reporting she was trying to get out,

467
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 11: So that tells me she had an awareness, and awareness

468
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 11: alone isn't enough. She needed support and right now that's

469
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 11: what she needs is for someone to come forward. In

470
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 11: my opinion, Nancy, someone knows something.

471
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Jenny and Lacy. You

472
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: just stated that, so eloquently. I have a dear friend

473
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: that I worked with and on air when I was

474
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: on airr and she's a producer and she was considering marriage.

475
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: She called me when Nancy, I'm bored with him, I'm like,

476
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: quickly marry him. Your last relationship was just, let me say, turbulent.

477
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: And that's certainly a euphemism, putting perfume on the pig.

478
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: Lots of arguments, breakups, makeups, that whole thing, suspicious about

479
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: whereabouts what he was doing. He wants to live like that,

480
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: and she was used to it, you see what I mean?

481
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: And then she gets a great guy, loving, dependable, handsome,

482
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: the works, and she's bored, like, don't you see what

483
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: you're doing. You've been in this other cycle for so

484
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: long you don't even understand how to respond when you've

485
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: got real love, a real man, not somebody that drags

486
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: you through the mud back and forth every other week,

487
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: but somebody that treasures you and takes care of you

488
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: or tries to, not that you need taking care of,

489
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: but somebody that wants to help you in life. You're

490
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: not you to a real relationship, a loving relationship. Guess

491
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: what she's married. She just had her first baby, and

492
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: she writes me all the time, Thank goodness you told

493
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: me to stick with this guy. I don't mean be

494
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: unhappy because you're not suitable. But when you've been these

495
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: turbulent relationships, you don't know when you're in a good

496
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: one because it's not what you're used to. You're missing

497
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: that adrenaline up and down. Am I saying it correctly,

498
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: doctor Janie? Probably not.

499
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 11: You are saying in a way that most people can understand.

500
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 5: Right.

501
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 11: We have a nervous system, and our nervous system gets

502
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 11: used to the routines what it and doesn't know whether

503
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 11: it's healthy or not. So it's what we call intermittent reinforcement,

504
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 11: which then creates these relationships to be very addictive. That

505
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 11: intermittent reinforcement basically is when someone treats you bad, they

506
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 11: also treat you well at times, but what you do

507
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 11: is you hold on to those moments of when they're

508
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 11: going to treat you well at times, so you endure

509
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 11: those the times or they're not treating you as well,

510
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 11: and that creates that come here, go away, and you

511
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 11: stay for the breadcrumbs. And that usually is grounded in

512
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 11: some level of childhood trauma. That's been untreated and unhealed.

513
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: So it makes sense in.

514
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 11: The context of these stories if we don't just judge

515
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 11: women with the choices of the men, but if we

516
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 11: look at the context, there's a nervous system that says,

517
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 11: this is safe, even though they're not safe. And as

518
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 11: you mentioned with your example, someone who could be stable,

519
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 11: they could be safe, they could be healthy, says the

520
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 11: nervous system says, this is danger. That's not where we're

521
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 11: used to. So then we hear that they're boring where

522
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 11: you don't have chemistry, we don't have compatibility, and then

523
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 11: they go back to what is familiar and not familiar

524
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 11: feels like it's chemistry, it feels like all these other things,

525
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 11: but it's usually the same familiar, toxic relationship they've had

526
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 11: in the past.

527
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: Nancy, Brian Fitzgibbons joining us USPA Nationwide Security, you have

528
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: handled so many more than you can count. I'm sure

529
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: missing people cases is typically women and children that go missing,

530
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: and very often when it's a woman, it's on the

531
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: heels of a toxic relationship.

532
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 6: One hundred percent, you know, it's almost nine out of

533
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 6: ten cases involving women involve a toxic controlling relationship, and

534
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 6: in this case, we don't know much about this last

535
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 6: relationship other than a handful of messages exchanged with family

536
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 6: that are deeply concerning.

537
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 9: And that's what.

538
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 6: Leads me to say that every possible effort should be

539
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 6: focused on trying to identify who this Jeff is, where

540
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 6: he's from, and where they were in Kentucky together. That

541
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 6: I think that major leads in this case can come

542
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: from Kentucky if provided we can identify Jeff.

543
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: Straight back out to Keela Johnson and Jackie Hurt, these

544
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: are Amy Owen's daughters in law, and that speaks a

545
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: lot to her. A lot of people hate their mother

546
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: in law. I've been really blessed my mother in law

547
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: and father in law since I have ever known them.

548
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: We never had a single crossword, not even once, and

549
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: apparently that's really rare. To Keila and Jackie, a couple

550
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: of quick questions, is your mom connected with a vehicle?

551
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: Did she have a car, and if so, what was

552
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: the making model?

553
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 10: She did not have a car. There's actually text messages

554
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 10: with her friend saying she's trying to get a car.

555
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 10: And this Jeff guy, there's one text saying that he

556
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 10: did not let her get the car she was looking at.

557
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 10: So I don't know what that means, but I know

558
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 10: she was trying to get a vehicle to get home.

559
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 10: That those text messages have made that very clear.

560
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: Okay, right there, if my husband told me you cannot

561
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: get a car, he had put out a hand and

562
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: pulled back a nub right there, telling her she can't

563
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: can't get would not let her get a car. Okay,

564
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: that's not good. So no car attached. The reason I'm

565
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: asking Kila and Jackie is because very often we have

566
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: solved cases based on getting a description of a vehicle. Okay,

567
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: so that's a no go. In other cases, I've been

568
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: suspicious that the victim is not the one texting. Was

569
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: her language, her vernacular, the way she texted normal in

570
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: her last texts.

571
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 10: I remember she always wrote books. She would write us

572
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 10: like big, huge text messages. So those little short and

573
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 10: sweet messages, it definitely did.

574
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 7: Like didn't feel right, Yeah, didn't feel like that was

575
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 7: her really.

576
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm so glad you're telling me that.

577
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 1: In the Gabby Patito case, which is the case we

578
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: investigated extensively, a red flag was raised when Gabby's texts

579
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: said something like, here's an example, if my sister wrote

580
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: me and said tell Elizabeth Stokes Grace hello instead of

581
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: taill mother Hello, I would know something was really wrong.

582
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: And that's what happened in Gabby's case. So I find

583
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: it significant that you find her text pattern to be different.

584
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: So do you have any idea how she met or

585
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: how she knew Jeff?

586
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 10: We kind of always knew kind of about them.

587
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 7: This she was like a reoccurring She would go back

588
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 7: to the same kind of guys a lot of the time,

589
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 7: so you know, they would be together and then fall out,

590
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 7: you know, like you do. And so we would normally

591
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 7: recognize the men, but this guy was someone that we

592
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 7: hadn't had a chance to meet, and.

593
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 10: We never hear his name, and it was kind of like,

594
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 10: who's Jeff.

595
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, we never remember a Jeff or recall Jeff.

596
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: So so question, why do you believe they're in Kentucky.

597
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 7: The only thing we have to go off of is

598
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 7: that Amy said I'm in Kentucky with Jeff, and that

599
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 7: is so vague. And like we said, we're on the

600
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 7: topic of talking about if it's not even Amy, I mean,

601
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 7: could someone be pushing a story for all we know,

602
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 7: like that's totally off from what's actually happening. We don't know.

603
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 7: That's like literally our only indication that she was in

604
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 7: Kentucky and she said.

605
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 10: She said that to her friend and her daughter. So

606
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 10: we have two separate messages stating that she was in Kentucky. Yeah, so,

607
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 10: but the messages with her friend as well, those very

608
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 10: vague and very short as well.

609
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,959
Speaker 1: Just like with her daughter to Kila and Jackie. If

610
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: Amy can hear you tonight, what is your message to her.

611
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 10: That we love you and we are looking for you,

612
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 10: and we just want you home. We just want you

613
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 10: back with us. Your grandkids miss you, we miss you,

614
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 10: and we're looking forward to reuniting with you.

615
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: Yellah.

616
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 7: We are doing everything that we can to try to

617
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 7: find you. We're confused, we don't know what's wrong, we

618
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 7: don't know what happened. So if anybody knows anything, please

619
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 7: like reach out and we're doing everything we can to

620
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 7: find you.

621
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: The family now searching for Amy on their own, in

622
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: addition to law enforcement. They have a go fund Me

623
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: Help us seek answers, bring our mom Amy Home. If

624
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything about the disappearance

625
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: of Amy Owens, please call Brown County Sheriffs nine three

626
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: seven three seven eight four four three five repeat nine

627
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: three seven, three seven, eight four four three five. Nancy

628
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: Grace signing off Goodbye friend,