WEBVTT - Burt Sugarman 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.160 My guest today is the one and only producer Bert Sugarman. Bert, 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.920 good to have you on the podcast. So you just 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.520 put the Midnight Special up on YouTube? How did this 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:31.600 come to happen after fifty years or actually forty nine years. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:37.199 About a year ago, my wife said to me, what 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.360 happens to YouTube? So many of our friends and our 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.720 younger friends, all our YouTube YouTube. Why don't we put 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.519 the Midnight Special on YouTube? Thought about a little bit. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.600 It seemed like the right thing to do. Talk to 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.760 our son. He loved the idea, said go for it, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.560 and here we are Bob. Okay. Those in the music 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:02.360 business know they're huge rights issues. Did you have all 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.520 those rights issues in the original contract to do whatever 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.440 you wanted with Midnight Special? Or do you have to 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.120 go back to these acts and get the rights? Well? 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.840 I had the rights from the get go, but to 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.080 go back to as many acts as we've had on 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.240 the show, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds would 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.039 have not been practical. But then years ago, in nineteen 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.440 seventy two to nineteen eighty one or two, we really 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:33.080 did get the contracts working right and signed properly, and 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:38.600 I have every single one of them that I have kept. Okay, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.120 so is every performance from the Midnight Special on YouTube. 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.040 Not yet, that will come in the future. Some performances 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.000 are and we've put them up early, but as time 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.640 goes on. It's only been two weeks since someone had 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:00.920 to type in Midnight Special TV show to find our channel. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.720 But now we're ready to go, and every Monday we 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.720 had new songs, new artists, new people, and it's been fun. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.839 And I read the comments and I really really enjoy them. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.959 The comments are terrific. They're intelligent. They're people who said 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.760 I was ten years old and watched that show and 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.079 hit under my covers with a little small TV, and 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.600 I remember so much of it. And other people say 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.919 that I'm just getting used to it now for my 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.280 own family, and it's very exciting to me. It really 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.520 is truly exciting to go back and look at some 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.520 of those performances. I remember of the over four hundred 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.960 ninety minute shows, I was at every single show and 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.600 down on the floor with the artists. So how are 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.960 you so pressing to get all these musical rights, because 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.240 this has certainly been an issue in movies when they 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.120 wanted to go to DVDs to streaming, they could include 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.520 certain songs. Do you just have a good lawyer or 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:06.600 did you see the future? Well, maybe a combination. But again, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.600 the performance on Midnight Special, I have the copyright too. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.280 If it's a matter of the song. On occasion I 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.040 have to go back on the song and take a look, 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.880 or someone will contact me and say we have to 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.520 give you the rights to this song or charge you 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.560 or this or that. And when that's happened, which hasn't 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.400 been much, when it's happened, we've worked with them. But 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:36.320 the performances, I have the copyright too. And the show okay, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:41.040 if one goes on YouTube, there are many performances from 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:46.320 the Midnight Special that are not on your channel. So 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.360 are you compensated on that? Are you planning to take 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.240 those down? What's going on there? Well, from what I 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.320 understand from YouTube and our attorneys, we have the right 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.880 to take them down. Somebody has a club with an 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.840 awful lot of people on and I called him up 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.680 and talk to him and after having a great phone 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.520 call with them, we're going to work together. He's going 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.960 to let his fan club know about what I'm doing, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.840 which is terrific. And he's building that fan club and 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.440 I'm behind him. So we've got a good relationship. But 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.839 they have to subscribe to the Midnight Special TV show 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.000 to come on Mine. No issues. I've not run into 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.640 any issues that I've been unhappy with so far. Now 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.240 there are many different deals with YouTube. Did you negotiate 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.000 a deal with YouTube? Or is just this the straight 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.320 compensation deal that YouTube gives. I know that our attorneys 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.360 have been in touch with YouTube, know them, talk to them, 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.039 have other deals with them, and I'm not really versed 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.760 on that yet. I will be in the future. Okay, 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.120 let's go back to the origination of the Midnight Special. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:01.320 How did it come together? Johnny Carson was on at 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:06.440 that time every night until one pm and or one am, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.680 actually one in the morning, and I would watch the 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.400 Tonight Show and then I had to look at one 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.640 in the morning an American flag and something like that, 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.720 which was beautiful. But there was no television. There were 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.919 no movies all night. There were no television shows, and 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.159 it made me wonder, what the heck I'm up. I 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.720 can't watch any more TV. I'll read a book and 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.680 I did that often, but I thought, what could I 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.839 put on there that people could be interested in? And 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.840 I thought music. Music, music, that's what to put on. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.520 Johnny always had on comics that were terrific occasionally some 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:48.360 good musicians, and I came up with the idea of musicians, 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.720 and I wanted to put that show on. And the 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.280 first person I actually talked to about it was Johnny Carson. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.200 He was my neighbor and he and I played tennis 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.719 two three days a week before he went to work. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.120 And Johnny would go to work around five thirty and 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:07.919 shoot that show around six. And I started talking to 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.839 him and mentioning that I was thinking of putting a 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.320 TV show on, and he said, well, if you do that, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.440 that'll help my last half hour. Obviously, my last half hour, 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.719 the ratings kind of go down as people Paul fall asleep, 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.919 but they may stay up to watch your show, and 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.560 it'll be good for me and good for you. Develop it, 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.600 work on it and tell me how I can help. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.080 I gave it a lot of thought, talk to some 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.520 friends about it, and I went to NBC and told 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.440 him when I had mine, I expected a wonderful, warm 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.160 welcoming because I knew them all at NBC from the 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.960 president down, and I had put television shows on NBC, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.320 but I wanted to be on NBC to follow Johnny 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.479 And the immediate answer was no, No, we can't do that. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.440 They'll never show up. Those rock people they're they're on 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.960 drugs and they're drinking, and they're bands are falling apart. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.600 They'll never come. I said, they will come. Maybe one 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.240 or two or three might not come, but I think 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.680 a group of them will come. Well. Meeting. After meeting 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.280 and talking to the right people, a friend of mine 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.840 said to me, you know, Bert, NBC and everything everybody 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.480 else in that business wants to be on the good 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.600 side of the FCC. Why don't you talk about getting 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.440 out to vote? Because remember last year, eighteen year olds 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.520 were voted to be able to vote, and not many 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.360 of them are right now. I thought that was a 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.680 wonderful idea. My next meeting with NBC, I said, listen, 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.680 I'm going to have my host and some of the 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.520 guests discuss the fact that we want to get young 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.360 people out to vote, and you'll be a real help. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.640 They're an NBC that really did get their attention. Bob. 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.520 Once I said that, they started thinking more seriously, and 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.360 they were still on the fact that maybe all the 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.400 acts wouldn't show up. But all right, how do how 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.440 do we solve the problem? I said, I'll tell you what. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.640 I will pay for it. I'll do the show at 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:13.960 your NBC studio and I'll pay for it. You will, yes, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.240 I will. Well, we own the tonight show, I know, 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.400 but you won't own this one. If you want me 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.840 to pay for it. You want to pay for it, 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.440 you'll own it. We don't. We are not sure it's 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.880 going to work, but if you're going to pay for it, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.880 we'll give it a chance. What about the advertising time, 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.480 I said, I'll sell it. I will go to some sponsors. 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.600 I've got sponsors from all the different shows I've done, 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.600 and I'll get advertising. I will sell it. It can't 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.520 be too expensive that time, because it's never been on before. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.160 How do you sell advertising on one thirty and two 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.679 and two fifteen in the morning. Finally, after I'm going 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.520 to say, three months of meetings, it got put together. Bob. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.120 So at that point in time, what did you budget 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.400 for the initial show? I budgeted about one hundred and 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.079 eighty thousand to do the first show, and I also 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.560 felt that if I went to the record companies and 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.040 asked them about the acts as well, they would want 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.520 the axe on because if you're on television and these 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.960 rock acts really they toured, they traveled, they flew around, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.640 they were in busses. The country acts especially were always 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:27.679 touring live. But I felt that the record companies could 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.920 help me get the acts because they knew that next 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.160 day Saturday Sunday money they would start selling more records. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.439 So they were helpful, and I thought for one hundred 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.440 and eighty thousand I could put that together as well 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:46.120 as sell airtime to some sponsors. I had used, example, 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.000 Chevrolet for a lot of my shows, and I went 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.600 to them and talked to him. There was a fellow 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.800 whose name is well known. His name was John Delian, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.679 and John Delian I can't remember at this moment if 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.160 he was still at Pontiac or had moved to Chevrolet, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.040 but he thought the idea was great because he said, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.880 young people have an influence on their parents about what 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.000 kind of park car they buy. So there we went, 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.439 and that helped me sell the time, and I built 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.520 a show around it. It was one hundred and eighty 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.760 thousand dollars of your own money, which is like a 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.000 million dollars today. Did you ever think of taking in 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.640 a partner or you wanted to go all in on 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.480 this yourself. I really wanted to do it alone. I 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.959 had been doing television shows and really game shows for 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.640 years and years, a lot of specials, and I had 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.520 made some money and done well with it, and I 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.640 wanted to do it alone. I felt that I had 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.880 an idea of it. I was creative with it. I 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.079 love rock and roll, I love country music, all kinds 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.920 of music. I just really loved so much deep in 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.400 me that I thought I'm gonna do it myself and 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.120 not have somebody tell me what not to do. Okay, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.800 you get the green light? Was the show already formatted 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.080 or did then you say, well, now I've got the time, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.800 let me figure out how to do it. That's exactly 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.760 what happened. Now I've got the time, how do I 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.840 do this, Let's go. I brought a couple of people 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.760 in to talk to about it. Some of them have 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:21.280 had terrific careers. Dick Ebersol, the name of NBC. Dick, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:22.800 was a friend of mine. When he came from the 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.480 East Coast. He actually stayed at my house for a while. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:27.840 When he first came out there, I knew him well, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.960 and Dick was absolutely terrific. He then went on to 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.600 go to NBC and run sports for them for years 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.160 and years and years. But Dick was involved in suggesting 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.960 acts and timing on. It was great. Another fellow named 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.680 Kenny Erlick, who now is the producer of the Grammy Show. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.280 Another fellow named Rocco or BC, a young guy that 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.480 came in who knew a couple of the acts. We 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.880 all sat around tables, and Susan Richards was the booker 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.400 with Titia Fine, and Tisha still books the Grammys. And 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.880 I'm talking about back in nineteen seventy two when we 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.720 did this show in August of seventy two, the pilot, 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.559 we talked about who might be the host, why this 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.400 person should host it. We had to get some people 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.240 who could talk because we wanted to talk about get 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.360 out to vote, And over a couple of weeks we 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.120 came up with a show. And I did some of 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.320 the softer rock earlier following the Tonight show, and the 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.040 harder rock would come on at one forty five maybe 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.040 or later. I thought those people might be up a 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.840 little bit later, and that came the first show. But 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.120 then we had to find a host. Okay, tell us 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.440 the story. Well known producer at the time named Jerry 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.880 Weintraub knew I was working on this show, and he said, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.920 I've got a young guy named John Duchendorff. And he said, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.679 John's name is being changed now. He's just come out 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.640 with one or two records. They've done very well. We're 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.880 calling him John Denver. Beautiful voice, whitebread looking, young fella, 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.120 not rock and roll, with funny looking and tattoos on 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.760 his forehead, none of that. He'd be a great host. Well, 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.000 he brought him over. I met him and liked him, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.040 and he actually sang some works in the office, some 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.360 things he wrote, and he was terrific and he could 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.760 talk and enjoy the conversation. I started asking him about 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.320 Get Out to Vote. He knew about it. He said, oh, yes, 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.320 I can talk to some of the acts about that. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.600 So I said, you know what, Jerry, Let's have him on, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.400 but not have him host. Jerry said, no way. If 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.720 I could do something with Elvis Presley, I'm telling you, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.679 this kid's going to be a major star, and you're 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.959 going to look back and say he was the right one. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.080 So Jerry talked me and do it, and John Denver 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.280 was the host of the very first show. Okay, do 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.200 you remember who was on the first show. Well, we 0:13:53.360 --> 0:14:01.240 had Mama Cass, Linda ron Stat and the Everly Brothers Argent. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:06.200 We had some great acts on that show. I called. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.240 Some of them had little trouble with the agents, but 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.160 then the record companies pushed and they helped. And then 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.840 on one or two of them, when I told Johnny, 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:16.720 he said, I'll book them a week in front and 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.800 just sit there and talk to him and we'll talk 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:20.680 about what's going to happen to the show. And they 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.320 get on and Johnny was extremely helpful, very supportive, very 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.800 helpful and a good friend of mine. So it worked 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:32.440 out well. And that's how the first show obviously did 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.280 absolutely terrific because the NBCM immediately came to me and said, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.960 this is working. Everybody liked it. The FCC liked it 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.400 because get out to vote, all of our executives liked it. 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.600 The ratings were there. When can you start and do 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.560 a weekly Well, I said, give me a couple of 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.360 weeks to think that over. So I really started terrific 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.680 and I said I need five or six months. Let's 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:02.480 put it on late January, early February, and that's what happened. Okay, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.280 let's go sideways for a second. To Johnny. He had 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:11.880 his public persona and then he had his off screen persona, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:17.120 and different personalities have been described since you knew him 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.080 so well. What was Johnny like off camera? Johnny was 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:26.520 an extremely competitive person. The days that we weren't playing tennis, 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.400 he actually went into his downstairs what he called his 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.680 man cave, and he played the drums and he was 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.160 absolutely terrific at it. Johnny was much of a loaner, 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.600 very much so competitive a tennis We had a wonderful 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.800 time playing and if he didn't win, he was very 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.040 very vocal about it. He wanted to win every game. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.320 I was less vocal because I wanted to promote the show. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.520 But we had We really did have some laughs in 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.640 a great time, and I enjoyed him a lot. Do 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.400 you remember how you met him? Let me think back 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.240 to that one. I don't think i've been asked that question. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.360 I think I met him pulling into the driveway where 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.280 I was pulling in in a fancy car, and he 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.160 had his little Mercedes Coop that he drove, and he 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.520 wanted to take a look at the car I was driving, 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.680 and he came over and visited and introduced himself. Of 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.120 course I knew him and he knew me because I 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.840 was the neighbor. And we sat there and talked. We 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.360 literally sat there for over an hour just talking generally. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.760 And was he aware of who you were once you 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.200 told him what your name was. He didn't know which 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.760 shows I had produced, but he know I had knew 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.920 I had produced some, especially because they were at NBC 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.120 and I often used the NBC studio across from Johnny's 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.200 to do my shows, even though we never got together. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.040 Then he knew the name and he knew I was around, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.520 so it was he was comfortable with talking to me. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:02.640 Do you remember what kind of car it was you 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:07.440 were driving? I do. It was called a Gia Gia, 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.679 a Gia four fifty SS that I was driving, and 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.480 he just loved the car. How'd you end up getting 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:20.080 that car? It's another show, Bob. I actually had that 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.760 car built in Italy, and I had fifty eight of 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.560 them built because I saw one on a cover and 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.560 Gia made bodies but not the engines. And drive frame. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.399 And again it's a long, long story, so we'll do 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.280 that one another time. Okay, just to stay for one 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.920 more second. If you had fifty eight built, what happened 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.959 to the other fifty seven? They got sold? They were sold, 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.600 I would say roughly half of them in Europe and 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.520 half of them in the United States. And I had 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.480 a retail sales operation right on Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.399 willsher and Cannon, the Ferrari dealer happens to be in 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.760 that building now, and that's where I sold him from. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.760 And it did not take very long. I sold him 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.160 very very quickly. You remember what the price was, approximately 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.199 thirteen or fourteen thousand dollars. And do you still have 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.040 your Gia? I do? And was it a good car? 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.120 Irrelevant performance? A lot of these Italian cars are known 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:23.200 for being for breaking down. Shall we say it's another 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.520 it's another show, I'm telling you. But it was a 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.199 Chrysler drive train and it was terrific. And are you 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.480 a car collector? You just had that one experience with Gia. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.280 I was a collector, Bob. At one time I had 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.920 sixty two cars and I collected them and enjoyed them 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:47.080 and loved it, and I know you enjoy the midnight special, right, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.480 And what you do with all the cars over over 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.600 the period of years, I've sold about fifty five of them. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.399 And what was the favorite car you ever had? A 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:06.240 nineteen thirty three Dusenberg. Wow. Okay. So this neighborhood we're 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.239 meeting Johnny is approximately where for those of us it was, 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.720 it was in bell Air. Okay, So you have this 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.840 relationship with Johnny you put on the show. I'm just 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.160 interested since you did the first show, when you sold 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.280 the advertising yourself, how did the economics end up working out? 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.879 They worked out well. I think on the first show 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:31.040 all over, I broke even and I was happy about that, 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:41.320 but I actually broke even. Okay. For those of us 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.520 who weren't in the business, there were a number of 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.879 shows at the time. There was your show, There was 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:53.040 in concert, There was ultimately Don Kirshner's show. Do you 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.920 believe you were the first? What was going on there? 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.439 They basically came after me. There was one for me, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.879 and that was Dick Clark's show. And if you were 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.280 on Dick Clark's show, you were lip syncing. And when 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.879 I watched it, and I noticed that the voices and 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.480 the faces were not matched to the words always, and 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.520 I thought it was so great of Dick to be 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.080 able to do that so early and have some terrific 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.080 acts on. But I wanted everybody to sing live. If 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.440 they felt they couldn't sing live, I couldn't put them 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:28.080 on the show. That's how I felt, and that's what 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:33.200 I did, and everybody sang live, except just a couple 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.399 of over the years. A couple of acts were in 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.959 another country or somewhere, so they sent me a tape 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.040 a tape of them doing it, and I knew that 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.440 one or two or three of those tapes they were 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.639 lip syncing on their own tapes, and I would have 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.840 Wolfman Jack say something about that because I wanted everyone 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.879 to sing live. And I also had to go and 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.960 find the best audio people to work on the show 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:04.800 show for me who were working on records. They worked 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.240 for Universal, for Warners, for an M, etc. And I 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.240 would bring them in to help make the audio as 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.240 good as I possibly could. And that was really important 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:20.200 to me because I knew the acts cared about that. Okay, 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.960 So you know, even back then, an act would come 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.520 in for a sound check when they're playing a live 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:33.320 gig and the acts usually would not be good from 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.920 the very first note. So how long would it take 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:41.280 to record an act? Some country acts immediately they were 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.840 just ready. They had been the night before someplace, working 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.760 live on a stage and they were ready. A few 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.840 of the acts needed a little bit of time and 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.159 we were patient, and to tape a ninety minute show. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.320 Of course that included commercials, so the show itself went 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.280 about one ten. We took about six hours to do 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.080 that show because of exactly what you're saying. Some acts 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.679 needed a little bit more time than others get the 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.439 voices right. I mean, I can just remember somebody like 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.479 Paul Anka, who was also on Dick Clark some years before. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.600 He'd come out in the first note. He was sensational. 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.919 He just did it. He knocked it out and I 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.199 had him host a couple of times, and he was 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.720 involved in booking the acts and who they were and 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:29.480 who he wanted, etc. But there were a lot of 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.360 acts that just came out and did it. David Bowie, 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.640 I went to England and the Marquee Club was very 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.879 hot at the time for some of these acts and 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.320 the Stones etc. And I taped him there and from 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.000 the first note, David Bowie was on it, just on it. 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:48.959 During that taping in or the Little Things, you remember, 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:54.040 Mick Jagger came in and under his arm was merry unfaithful. Wow. 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.160 That probably might mean more today than it did then. 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:03.000 And then David had a long haired lady come in 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:08.480 named Dushenka, and Dushenka was just beautiful and sang. And 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.119 then I found out later that Dushenka was a man. Wow, 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.679 We've got some tape on that that's really really interesting 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:22.040 and we'll put it up on Midnight Special So rock acts, 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.879 we'll all acts at this point in time, are never 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:27.439 happy with their performance and they want to tweak it 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.360 after the fact. Did people who want to do that? 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.760 What was the Midnight Specials policy? I didn't find that. 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.880 I really didn't the acts when they came on. I 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:42.240 think they had rehearsed with the record companies before in 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.880 order to get whatever songs they were going to sing. 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.399 And of course many of them had number one or 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:51.119 top ten hits. They were ready, a lot of them, 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:52.879 a few of them that weren't, and we'd take a 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.760 half hour, forty five minutes whatever it took to make 0:23:55.800 --> 0:24:01.040 it right. And the name Richard Prior, I know, of course, 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.240 you know. And Richard was a dear and close friend 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.520 of mine and I hadn't yet, but I had produced 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:11.600 Richard Pryor's for NBC television shows, and Richard and I 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.400 were dear friends, and he would come to a lot 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.280 of shows and if we were having a little issue 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:19.880 with an act of some kind or another, Richard would 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:23.160 knock on their door, walk inside, talk to him, relax him. 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.199 Nobody could believe that was in Richard Pryor, but he 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.719 did that, and he was hanging around the show. And 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.720 then I had three stages going at the same time, 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.920 and one would be lit and that's where we would shoot, 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.600 and the other two were kind of rehearsing quietly getting ready, 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:43.959 and Richard would be standing around getting the audience up 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:46.440 and happy because they were all sitting on the floor. 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:50.000 People lined up outside to come to the tapings. And 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:52.159 so I didn't have a lot of trouble like that. 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:55.080 I think I was fortunate, Bob. So it was all 0:24:55.119 --> 0:25:01.520 shot in one day. Yes, yeah, at NBC. Yes, Okay, 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:04.080 what was the commitment? How many shows for the year? 0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:09.440 When once NBC said yes, roughly forty eight. Oh wow, 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:13.080 so it's old school, Yes, yes, old school, and we 0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:20.240 repeated about four shows. Okay, yeah. How did Wolfman Jack 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:24.399 get involved in sitting with that group of people that 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:27.199 I told you about? The Susan Richards, that Tisha, that 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:30.439 Dick ever saw all of them? One of them, I 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:32.680 don't know which one, said you know, there's a there's 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.280 a DJ that works out of Tijuana by the name 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:40.840 of Wolfman Jack. He's got an incredibly unique voice. The 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.640 artists are just crazy about him, and of course they 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.320 want him to play their songs. So if we could 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:48.879 get him involved, the artists would like to come and 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:52.760 meet Wolfman they didn't all go to Tijuana, and he 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.280 would know them more apt to play their songs during 0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:59.639 his DJ week. And then he was in a little 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:04.480 thing all American graffiti, and because of it, I just 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.840 felt that was a great idea. They showed me some 0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:09.760 pictures of him with a big smile on his face 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.440 and I loved it, called him, had him come out 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:17.560 to the studio, met him, and instantaneously we really connected. 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.040 He was always always a favorite of mine. He and 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:25.880 his wife, Lew were wonderful people, and wolf Man was there, 0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:28.240 and he would call acts to come to do the show. 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.320 If somebody was shy, he'd get him on stage, or 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.760 he'd talk about him on his radio show. Come on, 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:36.880 you gotta come out and see me on this night 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:39.560 I'm taping and you gotta be there, things like that. 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:43.360 So Wolfman was part of my life for those ten 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:48.240 years and a welcome part. And in terms of ratings, 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:51.720 although at that lead time, it's a whole world unto itself. 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.439 Did it Bill? Did it fade? Over the ten years? 0:26:56.520 --> 0:27:00.240 What were the ratings? Like? The ratings seem to get better, 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:04.040 and I think what we call sets in use, and 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.520 I think that what happened is sets in use were growing. 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:09.719 So I was part of that and part of the 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:13.880 Tonight Show afterwards. And for a while I was the 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:17.600 only thing on the air after one pm and one am. 0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:20.880 I keep saying PM one am. That was it. And 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:23.439 then later all of a sudden you saw some people 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:28.520 talking doing not podcasts but videocasts a little bit, and 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.159 you had a couple of alternatives. But I was the 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:34.800 only game in town. And so if you like music 0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:39.359 and Wolfman Jack all the acts we had, the music 0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:44.080 was being promoted by the record companies themselves. So it was, 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:49.160 I must say, a party, and I never missed a show. 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.400 To what degree did Johnny going to an hour affect 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.640 the show because you were on a half hour earlier 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:58.920 that after that, it did not affect it, And I 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:02.600 was fortunate that that happened. But I'm glad you mentioned 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:06.000 that because I was concerned talked to John about it. 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:12.320 He was tired. He was just getting tired of doing 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.480 it constantly, constantly, didn't know where he'd find the next act, 0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:18.119 the next person. So as you probably know, he had 0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:21.920 a lot of regulars who were wonderful there. Don Rickles 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.080 was a regular, and some of these people were just 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:30.240 wonderful regulars because he was tired. So I was fortunate 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:33.680 that he did talk about the show even after when 0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:36.600 it was not my lead in. John talked about it, 0:28:37.240 --> 0:28:39.720 and of course he beat me at tennis all the time. Then, 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:47.200 to what degree were in concert in Don Kirshner's rock 0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:52.440 concert competition? They were not. Donnie Kirshner was a very 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:56.040 good friend of mine. I adored him. We talked about 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.200 the acts, and I would always say, look, if you 0:28:58.320 --> 0:29:00.400 go back to the East Coast near New York go 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.160 to rock concert. It'll be great for you. He did 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.479 the same thing for acts coming out the West Coast, 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:10.520 and I never looked at them as competition. I just didn't. 0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:14.000 Some of those shows, like in concert, had to lip sync. 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.440 They couldn't get quite the audio that I did. And 0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:20.360 one of the reasons was because I had the sound men. 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:25.000 So many of the records were coming out of Hollywood, 0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:28.040 out of the recording studios in Hollywood, a few of 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:32.720 them in the Valley, and there was a guy named 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.000 Bill Cole who everybody said, can you get Bill Cole? 0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:39.160 And I kept saying, no, I've asked Bill, he just 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:43.160 doesn't seem to want to. And in the pilot, the 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.720 pilot was done by a fellow named Bill Davitski, who 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:48.320 was very well known. He did it, but he couldn't 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:51.160 do it anymore. He was too busy during records and 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:56.280 then fortunately starting a show too, I had Bill Cole. 0:29:56.680 --> 0:30:00.080 So the acts were as happy as can be, and 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.960 they love the fact that the sound was sensational. Okay, 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:09.320 this is a business that's reactive, So at first you 0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.840 get a certain number of acts and as you say, 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:15.120 then the records start to move on Saturday and Sunday 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.840 did then the relationships change such that acts were hounding 0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:23.719 you to be on. That really happened. Of course, if 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:26.880 he looked at the top six or seven acts in 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:29.520 the world, they all they came and they did it, 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:31.680 but they didn't hound me. But other than that, it 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:35.720 wasn't a matter of hounding. An example, somebody said to 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:37.960 me one of the I think it was Susan Richards, said, 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:42.840 you got a book Christopher Cross. Well, who's Christopher Cross? Well, 0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:45.800 this record company is saying that he is going to 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.440 be the next big thing. We've heard of. His record 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:53.640 coming out, I believe was called Sailing and listen to 0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.120 this and listening to it it was absolutely terrific. Well 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.640 what does he look like here? Let me get a 0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:02.800 picture from the record company. Took a look at Christopher 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:06.320 Cross and he can sing. Let's book him. So I 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.160 would put him on at two fifteen. He wasn't well known, 0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:12.040 but he just knocked it out. I mean I could 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.440 see the audience sitting on the ground there and the floor, 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:18.160 and Richard Pryor there, etc. And a comic or two 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:21.320 that we had a Steve Martin would say, Wow, this 0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:25.080 kid is fabulous. And that's what would happen on new acts. 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:29.360 I did put them on often for the record companies 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:31.960 because they wanted to break them, because they believed in him, 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.960 and they were usually right. Okay, so you said you 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:39.800 were there at every show. A lot of people don't 0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:42.880 know how these shows are ultimately created. What were you 0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:47.760 doing at every show? Well, the director, who was a 0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:51.520 Stan Harris or Dick Eversol or Kenny Erlick or Rock 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:55.840 or BC whatever, they would be upstairs directing. I would 0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:59.040 basically be on the floor, but moving from around the 0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:03.120 dressing rooms, talking to the acts, making sure they were comfortable. 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:06.360 Did they have anything they wanted? If they drank something, 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:08.600 whether it was a mountain dew or whatever it might 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.880 have been, did we have enough for them? Could we 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:14.120 do anything for the people who brought them over? Just 0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:18.280 make everybody comfortable. I guess you'd call me the executive 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:22.720 producer and I would walk around and if I saw 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:24.960 something that I didn't like, if it might be a 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:26.920 drug or something, I made sure that I put a 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:31.240 stop to that immediately and would not allow that that 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:35.080 didn't happen often NBC could not believe it, but it 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:39.680 didn't happen. Often, and I was a floor manager. Then 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:43.640 what I was doing was making sure everybody was ready 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.800 to come out on one of those three stages. Next, 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:51.800 when we went live, you talk about drugs, What about alcohol? Yes, 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:55.400 same thing, same thing, And you know, you can't really 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.440 control it. You can't tell somebody who's twenty five years 0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:01.360 old what to do or how to do it. But 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.719 they wanted it. They wanted to look good, and especially 0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:07.240 they wanted to sound good. And then a lot of 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.320 them brought their own sound people and they went and 0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:12.160 talked to Bill Cole about what they wanted a little 0:33:12.240 --> 0:33:14.840 more trouble here and this part of it, and cut 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.480 it down to bass over here, and here's what I 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.280 want you to do here. And Cole was a pro 0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:24.520 at it. And so when an act like that, who's 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:28.120 a hit on records, is happy with their sound, the 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:33.640 evening goes, well, okay, how did you end up getting 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:39.040 comedians on the show? That stem from Johnny? Johnny said, 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.800 you know, I break it up off and with a comic. 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:44.520 You know, it might be a Rickles, it might be 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.280 this one or that one. So I decided I'd do 0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:51.360 the same darn thing, and the comic might be a 0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.000 little different For me. It might be a George Carlin. 0:33:55.280 --> 0:34:00.600 Steve Martin was young and new. Then Bill Caused was on. 0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:04.880 Andy Kaufman was on, and I just had fun with him. 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.240 It was just like a little bit of a break. 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:09.960 For some people it might have been a bathroom break. 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.920 Other people it might have been a music break. But 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:16.439 I at home and I just thought, that's terrific. Theyre 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:19.480 if they're fun. Everybody loosens up a little bit. The 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:23.600 music can stop for twenty thirty minutes and everybody relax 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.200 a moment. And it worked out well in the studio 0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:29.400 as well. Now this is fifty years ago, and the 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:32.920 younger generation may not be able to comprehend. It aired 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:37.000 once and then you couldn't see it again. Right, It 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:40.000 aired once. I did repeat some shows because I did, 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.120 as I said, about forty eight a year, and that 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.640 was it. That was it, and I put him away, 0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:54.759 locked him up, and for whatever got me really seriously late, 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:58.799 after about six or seven years, I decided that I 0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:01.480 was afraid of the tape. Johnny had told me that 0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.360 some of the tape of his early shows, which he 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:09.520 didn't really own because NBC paid for his show, the 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:12.520 tape went bad, and they looked, try and look at 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.920 an old show or in our act to bring back, 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.000 and the tape went bad. So I looked for the latest, 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:21.200 which I did then I have done since then, put 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:25.799 on what they call hard drive, and now it's all protected. 0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:29.560 Every bit of it's protected. And every time we had 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.439 a signed contract, they went in these boxes and took 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.640 care of those things and stored them in storages that 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:39.480 I paid for. And you were that much of a 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.600 music fan at that time. You were just shy of forty, 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.040 which sounds young when you're on the other side of it. 0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:47.600 But that was an era where it was you say 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:50.920 was driven by twenty five year old Well, I think 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.600 I started around thirty two or thirty three is where 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:58.520 I started. And then of course, obviously age went, but 0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:02.799 the music stuck with me, and I was a major, 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:07.280 major country fan as well. I respected the country acts 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:10.960 when they came in and talked, and I remember sitting 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:14.920 down with Loretta Lynn and knowing that she wrote most 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:18.359 of her songs. How in the world you do this? 0:36:19.120 --> 0:36:22.239 She said, Well, you know, he'd come home drunk at 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:24.640 night and I'd just sit there all night and he'd 0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:26.480 give me a little whack on the side of the head, 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:29.480 and I'd write a song, and if you listen to 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:34.839 those songs, that's what happened. It's exactly what happened. She said. 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:39.400 It was life. And then when one or two people 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:42.240 got killed in these plane crashes, and I would write 0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:44.360 very much about them, how I loved them, and what 0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:48.920 happened and how I lost them. And it was wonderful 0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:52.759 listening to that. And then somebody like Chris Christofferson, who's 0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:57.160 still around. I don't think he's ever really been appreciated 0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:00.440 for the songs he wrote, some of the songs that 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.560 Johnny Cash covered in George Jones and whoever it might 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:07.200 have been. Chris just had a way with lyrics, and 0:37:07.800 --> 0:37:10.600 you know, I put on my dirt, my clean his 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:13.759 dirty shirt, remember some of that stuff that was all 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:18.320 out of Christofferson. So sitting with these people I really 0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:21.400 really enjoyed. I think I learned a lot from them 0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.600 about their life and how they banged around and how 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:28.440 Chris said he worked in a hotel in Nashville when 0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:31.920 he went there, and just these stories about these people, 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:34.880 where they came from, how they were brought up. I 0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:38.440 was just knocked out by it. And it made me 0:37:38.560 --> 0:37:41.560 just be so sympathetic to where they came from, and 0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:46.719 they remained good, good people. Okay, to the degree you 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.480 can slice and dice. Tell us about a couple of 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:55.640 peak experiences on the show. I had never gone on 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:58.279 camera and never wanted to. I felt that I was 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.840 always behind the camera, not in front of the camera. 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:05.759 And all of a sudden, I'm sitting out there with 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:11.120 the audience and I'm watching it, watching an act and 0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:15.960 he was getting a record, he was getting a gold 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:21.960 record on stage, and he said, where's Bert. I don't 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:25.440 want this record company to hand it to me. I 0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:28.160 want I want Bert Sugarman to give it to me. 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.319 I said, no, no, no, I don't really, I don't 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:35.080 go on camera. I just I just don't. But let's 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:37.319 we'll tape it with a record company and I'll make 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:41.560 sure we shoot it beautifully. And Jim Croach he said 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:46.560 to me, well, then I'm leaving. What if you can't 0:38:46.600 --> 0:38:50.040 hand it to me, and you're the boss of the 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:53.399 show and I'm your star here, I'm out of here. 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:56.200 I said, where are you going? He said, I'm going 0:38:56.239 --> 0:39:00.760 to my next gig. Are you serious? I'm very very serious. 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:03.799 I got up out of the audience. I took the 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:08.120 record from the record person and I handed it to him, 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:10.400 made a little speech for him, and that's in the show. 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:14.840 And I gave Jim Crochey his gold record and he 0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:18.120 said to me, I love it. I love you coming 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:20.080 up and doing this, and you don't know how much 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.480 I appreciated Bert. And I want to come back and 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:26.200 host again. I said, you got it, no question, you 0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.040 will come back and host, give me some dates your 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:33.520 free and will do it. And unfortunately he was then 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:37.680 killed in a plane crash, and so he could never 0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:47.840 do that again. So it started out as the Midnight Special, 0:39:47.880 --> 0:39:51.960 but ultimately was build as Bert Sugarman's Midnight Special. How 0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:55.319 did that happen? I didn't realize that was ultimately. I 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:57.560 thought that was in the beginning. You know something that 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:00.839 I don't know about it, Bob. Well, as I say, 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:02.880 my memory only works so well. But when you go 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:05.440 on YouTube, it does say Bird Sugarman's and on some 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:09.040 of the early videos I think it doesn't. But let's 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:12.120 leave that alone for a second. So where are you from? 0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:14.040 Where were you born and where did you grow up? 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:20.160 Born in Beverly Hills. My father was a pharmacist, and 0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:24.680 I lived in a one bedroom, a two bedroom apartment, 0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:30.520 a tiny little apartment right off Sunset Boulevard, and my 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:35.640 dad would go to Sunset and Vine where he worked 0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:39.960 in a drug store. And my wife and I recently, 0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:44.480 just recently, we're looking through old pictures of her family 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:47.560 and my family, and I've got some pictures of my 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.440 dad would Tyrone Power, who wrote a note on this 0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:54.640 picture saying, al you give me my prescriptions when I 0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:57.239 really want them, And my dad would tell me that 0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:00.799 Sinatra was in there all the time, Tyrone Power, all 0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:04.799 these major actors I'd always heard about, and they had 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:07.319 their own drugs, and he said, yes, we'd give them 0:41:07.320 --> 0:41:09.520 a drug here, into something there and this and that, 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:12.520 and they came and hang around, and they were absolutely 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:15.560 wonderful coming in the drug store that I worked in. 0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:20.400 So I was a local. Then I didn't go to 0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:22.840 Beverly High. I thought it was a little snooty and 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:24.920 the kids had money, and we didn't have too much 0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:28.000 money off any kind. And so I went to school 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:32.240 not far on Fairfax and Melrose called Fairfax High School, 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.160 and that's where I went to school and grew up there, 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:39.000 and then went to USC and didn't go to the 0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:45.680 film school. And that's my that's growing up. Okay, So 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:50.480 were an only child. I was an only child, yes, okay, 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:54.520 And you've had a lot of success. Were you always 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:57.440 the straw that stirred the drink that made things happen? 0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:01.120 What was your personality in these aerience is growing up? 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:06.360 I think I could say nicely aggressive. I was a 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:12.239 self starter, extremely curious about whatever I was going to do. 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:15.279 I was very very curious, and that led me to 0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:21.359 go into things like hamburgers, later, paper companies, cement companies, 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:25.240 all just different kinds of things. Something about these different 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:30.400 businesses appealed to me. Later when I was young, it 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:35.359 was pretty much the same thing. I had friends who 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.000 were in the entertainment business. Glenn Campbell was a friend 0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:40.200 of mine from the time I was very very young, 0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:44.799 and Glenn and I would travel and goof around. And 0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:47.280 he was not known then because he was a guitar 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:50.200 player for some of the major acts. He was known 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:53.759 as the real guitar player in the studio, so he 0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:56.799 wasn't known as Glen Campbelly didn't have a TV show then, etc. 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:01.520 I do remember Glenn's TV show in on the air 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:06.920 and he came to meet me in Aspen, Colorado, so 0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:10.840 we could ski for a three day weekend. And John Denver, 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:14.480 this is later John Denver was having a party. We 0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:16.520 ran into him and asked, but he said, look, here's 0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:19.600 where I live, etc. Etc. Come on out to my party. 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:23.640 It'll be tonight. Well, it started snowing in the afternoon, 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:26.680 a massive snowstorm. So Glenn and I. I'm driving and 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.279 Glenn's looking and we're having trouble seeing the front of 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:31.640 our car. And he said, look, there's a light there. 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:34.359 Let's pull into that light. We'll find something. This looks 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:36.919 like a little ranch house. I said, Glenn, up here, 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:40.319 you'd get shot. It's now eight thirty nine at night. 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.680 You just don't walk into something. He said, come on, 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:46.080 come on, you're a city slicker. Pull in. So I 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:49.120 made a right turn. I stopped about twenty feet away. 0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:52.839 He opens a car door, and I opened my door 0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:55.840 and I'm just standing in the door of my car. 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.800 He knocks on the door and a little lady, probably 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:03.680 seventy five years opens the door, looks at him. She said, hi, Glenn, 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:06.919 come on in. Well, you could have knocked me down. 0:44:07.840 --> 0:44:11.319 I started realizing the power of television there. It was 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:14.719 amazing to me. So we went in sat with her. 0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.040 She had no idea where John Denver lived. We spent 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:20.560 an hour with her and went back home. Never went 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:24.640 to the party. Okay, so you go to USC before 0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:28.560 you graduate from USC, are you already an entrepreneur? Or 0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:31.280 did that not starting to laughter? You graduated from college? 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:38.160 That started off after I joined a zb. I joined 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:41.080 a fraternity and I was there a year and I 0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:44.120 didn't like it. Everybody was drunk. I was stunned at 0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:47.960 that At USC, they were drinking every night and it 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:50.160 was it was a mess. They didn't study very much, 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:53.040 and I was not a real good student. I was 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:56.360 what you would call a C student sometimes when it 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.799 was a something math, trigonometry, math, I was good. Other 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:04.360 that history, English, those wonderful things I barely got to see. 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:08.759 So I had to study and I didn't didn't want 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:11.000 to stay, so I dropped out of the fraternity. I 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:14.600 wanted to graduate, which I did with that kind of 0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:20.600 a weak scholastic record. And then I just started looking 0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:23.800 around TV trying to come up with something I could. 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:26.520 I saw game shows I thought were cute. How could 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:28.520 I come up with one? And do one. I started 0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:31.719 doing that stuff. So what was your first break? What 0:45:31.840 --> 0:45:39.800 was your first show? First show? I can't answer that, Bob. 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:43.640 I can't remember the exact first show right now. I 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.440 had one cost celebrity sweepstakes. That was one of the 0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:51.400 early ones. You're an outsider. How you go from outsider 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:53.360 he grew up in Beverly Hills to having a show 0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:56.760 on network television. Well, I had a lot of friends 0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:59.640 in the business. Ronnie Burns, who was George Burns's and 0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.279 great see Allen's son. Ronnie was my buddy Glenn I 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.359 was with all the time. And I ran into a 0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:09.080 lot of these young people that were in the business 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:12.239 at the time and would spend some time with them, 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:14.799 learn a little bit, go on a movie set, going 0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:17.800 a TV set, And I realized that I liked TV 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:21.359 much much more than I liked films, because you could 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.520 be working on a film and it was, as you know, 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:26.319 a year before it came out by the time the 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:29.319 editors finished six months later. And this and that I 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:32.360 didn't like that you could do a game show, a 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:35.719 quiz show, and if you did it on Monday, and 0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.279 you taped a few of them, they aired starting the 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:41.560 Monday after many of the mayor the same week. I 0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:46.120 love that. I love that instantaneous thing happening, and so 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:52.280 I just gravitated towards TV. A fellow named Chuck Barriss 0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:57.160 was a friend of mine, and Chuck started the Newlywood Game, 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.800 the Dating Game, etc. And I bought those shows from Chuck. 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:03.360 He had been doing him a few years, got tired 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:07.120 of it, and I bought those shows and I produced 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:09.319 him and I started working on those shows and I 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:13.080 owned them then, and then I created some of my own. 0:47:13.560 --> 0:47:16.440 I did a special call Miss Black America. There was 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:19.440 Miss America, and I did Miss Black America out of 0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:25.239 the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. I enjoyed the Philharmonic, and 0:47:25.360 --> 0:47:29.319 when Zubin Maida was our conductor years and years ago, 0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:33.960 I produced Zuban Maide in the La Philharmonic. I had 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.759 Jack Benny as a guest and got some emmies on 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:42.440 that show and did that. They just came out of 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:47.240 relationships and this and that. Henry Mancini, how's that. Hank 0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:49.960 was a good friend of mine, and he's always said, 0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:52.879 you do all these shows? What should I do? I said, 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:57.520 do you be yourself? Come on. He had a wonderful personality, 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:01.320 just so likable. He was just a terrific guy. And 0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:04.919 so I produced one year of shows with Hank, which 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:09.360 I have protected and still have them, of course, and 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:13.279 I enjoyed every single thing I did with him. So 0:48:13.320 --> 0:48:16.280 what you told me earlier really tickles my heart, because 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:21.080 he was a knockout man. He was terrific and things 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.520 like that. And I did things that have not come out. 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:26.920 Did a show called City Versus Country. I did a 0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:30.279 bunch of those, and I would take country people from 0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:33.520 the south against city people from more in the north, 0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:36.839 and I would have them do athletics together and see 0:48:36.840 --> 0:48:39.480 who won. Just a silly show, but it went on 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:42.799 the network and did well. I remember in seventy one 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.759 and seventy two I used to produce the Grammy Awards, 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:51.719 and I remember how I got the show. I knew 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:54.239 a man named Bob Wood. Bob Wood at the time 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:58.040 was president of CBS, and I would see him socially 0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:01.760 because of friends and liked and he liked me and 0:49:02.760 --> 0:49:05.920 another man well known in the business named George Slaughter. 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:10.279 George produced the Grammy Awards, but he didn't air him 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.600 till a week later. They were just shot on tape. 0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:16.480 I wanted to do him live, so I went to George. 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:18.000 I said, what do you want. I want to buy this. 0:49:18.480 --> 0:49:20.520 He said, well, gimme X and you own it. It's 0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:23.520 a pain to do it anyway. I gave him X. 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:26.800 I owned the show. I immediately went over to Bob Wood, 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:28.440 talk to him a little bit and said, I want 0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:31.279 to put this live on your network. He said, let 0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:33.759 me look at one of them on tape. Showed it 0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:35.560 to him. He said, I like it. I'll bet you'll 0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:37.839 do a great job. I saw you do X and X, 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:40.640 and that's how I got seventy one and seventy two. 0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.160 I did the Grammys live on CBS and they stayed 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:51.120 live after that. Just unusual, unusual things would happen, and 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:53.520 I would I don't want to say I fell into it, 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:56.640 but I was friendly and aggressive, and if I saw 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:59.440 something I thought might work, I would jump at it, 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:04.360 jump at it. So you were involved with Richard Pryor 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.040 from an early day before most people knew who he was. 0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:11.640 How did that come together? I met Richard when he 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:15.160 was doing something at the comedy show and Sunset Boulevard, 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:17.600 and I went late at night a couple of nights 0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:19.680 and met him, and I thought he was the best 0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:24.400 talent comedity talent I had ever seen. I went backstage, 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:27.800 talked to him, introduced myself Tom, I've done some TV 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:31.719 shows and this and that. And from that we met 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:33.799 the next day and the next day and the next day, 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:38.960 and we just became pals, just became buddies. I know 0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:44.440 Richard did drugs and I never ever, in all the 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:48.160 years with Richard, ever saw him take a drug. He 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:50.520 did not allow me to see him take a drug. 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:54.680 He respected me for that, and I respected him for that. 0:50:56.160 --> 0:51:04.080 We did shows together. Boy one day he called called 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.120 me up and he said, can you come on over? 0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.720 And he had MS at the time. This is later, 0:51:10.280 --> 0:51:12.279 and he said, I've got a friend that'll answer the 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:14.520 door that you've known for years and years and haven't 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:16.960 seen him in a long time, but come on over 0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:20.719 the house. And I said, I want to bring my wife. 0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:23.439 He said, okay, And my wife is a lady named 0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:27.000 Mary Hart who was on Entertainment Tonight for twenty nine years. 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:32.399 So Mary and I go over to Richard's house, knock 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:34.839 on the door, and Mary didn't want to go. She said, 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:38.280 Richard of all the people in twenty nine years. Richard 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:41.040 was the worst interview I ever had, just horrible. I 0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:44.080 don't want to go, don't want to go, and I said, 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:46.360 you gotta come, come on, you'll see a different Richard. 0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:50.000 He's my pal. I want you to see Richard with me, 0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:53.359 please Mary. So Mary came along, not happy about it, 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:56.279 and I knock on the door and who opens the 0:51:56.320 --> 0:51:59.480 door but Muhammad Ali And I knew Muhammed had met 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:03.879 him early, and he also was not real well at 0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:07.360 the time. So we had Richard Mohammed there, and Mohammed 0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:11.000 was great, and Richard was my buddy still, and he 0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:15.480 was a little bit weakly talking, and he said, come on, Mary, 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:17.920 come on, Mary. I know I was with you one time. 0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:20.880 And Mary looks at me and she goes over and 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:24.120 sits next to him, and I go off with Mohammed 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.640 and Mohammed and I are talking for about thirty minutes 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:32.320 in another room and I come back and see Richard 0:52:32.400 --> 0:52:35.560 and Mary, and I swear to you, they both had 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:40.120 tears in their eyes. I said, what in the world happened? 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.680 Look at the two of you? And Mary said, Richard 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:46.239 asked me, who was the worst interview I ever had 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:48.959 and I told him him, and I told him why 0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:52.440 and what had happened. And I was in Oklahoma then 0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:55.880 on a talk show working and Richard came through early 0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:58.120 in the morning and he hadn't gone to bed, and 0:52:58.200 --> 0:52:59.759 this is not where he wanted to be. And we 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:02.600 discussed it, and he put his arms around me and 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:05.959 started crying and said, I oftentimes hurt the people I love. 0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:10.000 And I just started to crying. Here we are. And 0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:15.560 after that, when Mary would interview Richard for entertainment tonight, 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:18.240 which he did, He'd always got a couple of hundred 0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:21.919 letters and she would go over to the house, oftentimes 0:53:21.920 --> 0:53:25.680 without me, and read the letters to Richard. They were 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:30.920 sent about him to the studio and they became best 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:36.239 best friends. At his funeral, he left directions that he 0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:39.520 wanted Mary to be the speaker and the host at 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:45.200 his funeral, which she did. And I loved him. I 0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:48.360 just loved him, and so did Mary, and he was 0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:51.279 a dear, dear friend till the end. I once gave 0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:53.520 him as a gift, I gave him a miniature horse. 0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:56.960 I had a ranch out in Hidden Valley and had 0:53:57.000 --> 0:54:00.319 a couple of miniature horses, and he admired when he 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:02.440 came out, So I gave him one and his great 0:54:02.520 --> 0:54:08.520 dane ate it the little miniature horse. You can't talk 0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:13.400 that story, and you can't make it up. I can 0:54:13.520 --> 0:54:18.879 hear him telling that story. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, Bob, Wow, 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:22.560 there's some things that happened. They're just mind boggling. Now 0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:27.160 you have a long history of being involved and married 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:33.080 to very famous, desirable women. You talk about Mary Hart. 0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:39.480 You were married to Mary. Mary is thirty four years married, Bob. Okay, 0:54:39.760 --> 0:54:43.160 but there were people before. Supposedly you were engaged to Anne, 0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:47.080 Margaret married to Carol Wayne. What's your magic for the 0:54:47.160 --> 0:54:51.960 guys out there? Well, do us a trick? Oh wow, 0:54:53.600 --> 0:54:57.640 Bob left Sets asked me that question. I don't think 0:54:57.680 --> 0:55:02.640 there's any magic except maybe me being me an. Margaret 0:55:02.680 --> 0:55:07.520 was on stage with George Burns in Las Vegas. Ronnie 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:10.160 Burns told me about her, said, come on, let's go 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:13.480 see the show. My dad says, she's a wonderful, wonderful talent. 0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:19.920 I went up there backstage afterwards, George and Margaret, Ronnie 0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:21.960 and I, and then she and I went out a 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:26.719 few times. You know, when you're around town, like that, 0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:30.560 and you're in different nooks, different corners, different shows here 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:32.400 and there. You meet a lot of people, and you 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:36.279 have a few dates. But you had more than a 0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:40.360 few dates. You say you're married. How'd you meet Mary? 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:44.360 I had produced a movie called Children of a Lesser 0:55:44.440 --> 0:55:51.040 God for Paramount, and Paramount wanted the producers of three 0:55:51.120 --> 0:55:53.919 or four of the films coming out that next year 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:58.400 to go to Las Vegas to meet the theater owners. 0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.480 They had a couple of thousand come to Las Vegas 0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:05.640 every year, and the producers would talk about their films. Well, 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:09.280 I get on a Paramount plane and I look across 0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:12.440 the aisle and there's Mary Hart, who I watch on 0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:15.719 TV every night and always saw it. Gosh, I'd sure 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:18.240 like to go out with Mary Hart. And she's sitting 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:21.279 alone with papers on her lap. I go over. I 0:56:21.360 --> 0:56:23.359 sit down in the chair next to her, and I said, 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:26.239 and there's only a few of us producers and then 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:30.359 Mary and I said, Hi, I'm Bert Sugarman. Mary. It's 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:32.480 nice to meet you, she said, Hi. Say can we 0:56:32.520 --> 0:56:34.680 talk to a few minutes? She said, no, we can't. 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:38.640 I'm going through all of these papers about your movies. 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.680 Of you producers who you are what the names are, 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:46.080 so I can't right now, maybe another time. Thank you. Well, 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:48.480 that was a great one. I went back to my 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:52.280 seat and sat there, and then on stage I couldn't 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:56.640 talk to her, just couldn't. And she was working and 0:56:56.680 --> 0:57:00.000 I was getting ready for my speech. All these theaters 0:57:00.000 --> 0:57:03.080 her owners, and that was the end of it. And 0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:08.120 going home, I went home a different I didn't go home. 0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:09.759 I went to New York, and I guess she went 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:13.439 back to Hollywood, so I didn't see her for quite 0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:19.880 a while. And then what was next? Right next was 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:26.760 I'm in New York laying on the beach, and my 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:30.720 host at their house says, you got a phone call, Bert, 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:32.479 come on, get up here. You got a phone call. 0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:34.680 I go up and it's a friend of mine at 0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:38.640 Beverly Hills. Do you even know what the share party is, Bob, Yes, 0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:43.720 I do, Okay. The share Party is where it's a 0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:47.880 charity and everything goes to mental health and it's tied 0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:51.080 to Cedar sign I Mental Hospital, and the wives of 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:54.120 many male executives and a few of the husbands of 0:57:54.240 --> 0:57:58.320 female executives run this group called Chair and they give 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:02.960 a party where you were tree Western clothes boots, guns 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:06.720 and all kind of Levi's fun party to go to 0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:10.520 every year in Los Angeles or Beverly Hills, usually at 0:58:10.520 --> 0:58:14.320 the Hilton. And this friend of mine says, listen, I'm 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:18.360 going to the share party. And this is on a Wednesday. 0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:21.560 And he said, you know it's Saturday night. And he said, 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:25.720 I'm taking Mary Hart and Jackie Smith. I'm really mad 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:28.479 about Jackie Smith. I'm just I'm in love with her, 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:31.480 and Mary's gonna come along. Would you like to join us? 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:37.720 I said absolutely positively. Okay, he said I'll come by. 0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:40.280 He doesn't even know where I am. He said, I'll 0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:43.080 come by and pick you up about six thirty or 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:46.000 six o'clock and we'll go get married first. And then 0:58:46.080 --> 0:58:50.680 Jackie I said, great, wonderful. Well, I'm thrilled. I fly 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:54.520 right back to LA and we go by and pick 0:58:54.600 --> 0:58:57.600 up Mary. Hi, Mary, how are you? Hi? Bird? You 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:00.960 never called me? Oh my gosh, what a start. Mary. 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.720 I feel terrible. I never called you. Thank you for 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:08.120 saying that. Okay, we go out that night. He goes 0:59:08.160 --> 0:59:12.000 over with Jackie, leaves the table, so I'm sitting with 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.600 Mary and we talk all night long, had a great time. 0:59:15.280 --> 0:59:19.320 Go home, drop Jackie off, drop her off. Next morning, 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:25.320 about ten o'clock, my phone rings and it's Mary Hi Bert, Hi, Mary. 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:27.480 Weren't you gonna call me? We had a great time 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:31.080 last night. Of course I was gonna call you. How 0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:34.720 about dinner Tuesday? And Mary Hart says, how about dinner tonight? 0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:39.400 I said, Wow, you have got it. I'll pick you 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:43.160 up tonight. We're going to dinner. We literally have never 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:49.000 been apart since that dinner. Wows that incredible love story, 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:54.280 and it's true, it's one hundred percent true. Thirty four years, Bob, 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:58.400 thirty four years. That's a long record. Did anybody never 0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:10.040 mind Hollywood? So you talk about producing children the lesser gone? 1:00:10.040 --> 1:00:15.840 How'd you get into movies by reading a couple of 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:19.959 scripts that I like? I read the script. I didn't 1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:24.520 read the script. That's a real interesting question. Because I 1:00:24.680 --> 1:00:27.760 heard about the play, and I was in New York 1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:30.360 and I heard about the play, and I wanted to 1:00:30.480 --> 1:00:33.680 see the play. So I went to see the play. 1:00:34.320 --> 1:00:37.040 And I'm sitting there and I see Norman Lear sitting 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:40.720 in front of me, Ray Starks sitting across the aisle, 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:44.000 and I'm thinking, Wow, these are two of the biggest 1:00:44.000 --> 1:00:48.200 producers in the business. I knew them both, Ray extremely well, 1:00:48.320 --> 1:00:52.760 Norman Little and I watched the first half and it 1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:57.320 broke for fifteen twenty minutes. I went downstairs. I called 1:00:57.360 --> 1:01:01.760 the playwrights agent Stan Cayman at William Morris and Beverly 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:04.760 Hills and the phone downstairs, and I said, I love this. 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:07.720 I want to buy the movie rights. He said, well, Bird, 1:01:07.960 --> 1:01:10.240 you may not know, but but Ray Stark is there, 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:12.400 and Lear is there, and he named another producer I 1:01:12.520 --> 1:01:14.880 never heard of. And he said they're all there and 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:17.840 I'm probably going to hear from him. And I said, 1:01:17.920 --> 1:01:19.240 I want to buy it, and I want to buy 1:01:19.280 --> 1:01:21.920 it now, right now on the telephone. What does he 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:25.280 want for the rights the film rights? And he said, 1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:28.280 I don't know. Hold on, I said, not too long. 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:31.520 I got to go back. He obviously called the playwright 1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.600 and he called me back and he said, look, I 1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:36.680 think from one of those guys he'd take three to 1:01:36.720 --> 1:01:39.680 four hundred thousand. But you you've you're not known for 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:42.959 producing a film. He wants a million dollars. I said, 1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:45.720 you got it. A million bucks, he's got it. I 1:01:45.800 --> 1:01:49.200 want the film rights, he said, but he's got to 1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:52.040 meet you. I said, where is he? He said, New Mexico. 1:01:52.760 --> 1:01:56.120 I said, okay, I'll meet him for breakfast wear Los 1:01:56.200 --> 1:02:00.960 crucis New Mexico. I said, let me call me later 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:02.960 and tell me where to meet him. I'll be flying 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:07.000 in private. I'll go there. Okay. I saw the play, 1:02:07.080 --> 1:02:09.560 said a load to Norman's said a load of Ray, 1:02:09.880 --> 1:02:13.760 how are you? What's doing? Went back to the hotel, 1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:18.040 checked out, flew to Las Cruces, New Mexico, and I 1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:22.200 had an airplane. Then flew there. I met the playwrights, 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:24.040 sat with him for an hour. He said, we're going 1:02:24.080 --> 1:02:26.440 to get along, but will you let me write the 1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:31.240 first draft to the screenplay? I said one hundred percent yes, 1:02:31.680 --> 1:02:34.680 of course. I owned the rights and that's how I 1:02:34.720 --> 1:02:38.360 got involved. How long from that date till the movie 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:42.840 is made? Well, it was probably a year till the 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:47.440 film was made, but a couple of things. The next day, 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:49.680 I get a phone call in La from my friend 1:02:49.760 --> 1:02:51.720 Ray Stark. He said, I'm gonna do you a big favor. 1:02:52.640 --> 1:02:54.840 He said, I'm going to give you the million dollars back, 1:02:54.960 --> 1:02:58.800 You'll have nothing invested, and we'll co produce it together. 1:02:59.720 --> 1:03:03.240 I said, I can't do that. Ray, you're terrific. Well 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:06.240 why not. You won't have anything invested, I said, I know, 1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:09.440 but you're one of the biggest producers. You produce Streisand's films. 1:03:09.440 --> 1:03:12.400 Everybody knows it. They'll never know me. I'll never get 1:03:12.480 --> 1:03:16.000 a reputation of any kind. This is a quality film 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:18.960 that I want to make, and I appreciate it very much, 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:21.240 but I'm not going to do that because I want 1:03:21.280 --> 1:03:23.560 my name out there so I get some reputation to 1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:27.600 make more films. He said, I get it, I get it. 1:03:28.480 --> 1:03:31.280 I then went back to New York and I wanted 1:03:31.440 --> 1:03:34.720 Robert Redford to play to play the star in it, 1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:39.320 and Bob Redford and I were together for about two 1:03:39.440 --> 1:03:42.520 weeks in a row, day in and day out, going 1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:45.160 over what the play would be like and what would 1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:47.680 happen in each scene. And he was fabulous to work with. 1:03:47.760 --> 1:03:51.960 I mean, he was such a gentleman. And one day, 1:03:52.040 --> 1:03:55.400 sitting there after about two weeks, he said, Bert, I 1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:59.120 can't do it. You know where the lead climbs up 1:03:59.160 --> 1:04:01.520 this tree and look at her and tries to make 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:05.040 noise and get her attention on the second floor. I 1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:09.080 said yes, he said, Bob Redford wouldn't do that, and 1:04:09.120 --> 1:04:10.960 I said, I know, but you're the character. You're not 1:04:11.040 --> 1:04:14.120 Bob Redford there. He said, no, but I've got to 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:17.840 live with being Bob Redford. And he just wouldn't do that. 1:04:18.960 --> 1:04:22.040 He'd shoots somebody, he'd do this with Paul Newman, but 1:04:22.080 --> 1:04:26.040 he wouldn't do that. I can't do it. I thanked him, 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:28.680 We hugged, and I thanked him so much for spending 1:04:28.720 --> 1:04:34.080 all that time with me. And that was it. So 1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:39.440 we cast it Marley Matlin. Yeah, this is Marley Matlin's 1:04:39.480 --> 1:04:42.560 big breakthrough. How'd you end up using Marley? Because she 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:46.880 came through with other non speaking and not hearing actresses 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:50.560 and there was a light about her. There was something 1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:56.880 about Marley that was absolutely amazing. Now you know that 1:04:56.880 --> 1:04:59.800 that was thirty eight years ago, thirty nine years ago, 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:05.000 and she was wonderful. And I will also tell you 1:05:05.040 --> 1:05:09.360 that last October Mary and I took Mary and her 1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:13.080 husband to a Dodger baseball game. We are still friends 1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:15.880 with Marley. She's as wonderful now as she ever was. 1:05:16.400 --> 1:05:21.160 But we met her. She went to god Debt College, 1:05:21.200 --> 1:05:25.680 I believe it part of Juilliard, and she just she 1:05:25.840 --> 1:05:29.160 was alive and then of course she gets nominated for 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:33.040 an Academy Award for Best Actress. I go to the 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:38.720 Academy Awards and Marley wins Best Actress of the Year. 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:44.000 Non speaking and non hearing lady. Nothing like that had 1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:46.200 ever happened, and I was so proud of her. She 1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:50.240 was wonderful. And if you've seen Coda, then you know 1:05:50.760 --> 1:05:57.480 Marley was in Coda just terrific, as wonderful as ever. Okay, hey, 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:01.280 the playwright, he wrote the original script. How close was 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:09.040 that to the shooting script? Not that close. It was interesting, 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:13.560 it was good, but it didn't quite hit me. And 1:06:13.560 --> 1:06:16.760 when we went over talking about it, he understood it 1:06:17.000 --> 1:06:20.240 and he was terrific about it. He just I didn't 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:22.040 know how he'd act. And I felt I did know 1:06:22.200 --> 1:06:26.320 because he was such a gentleman. But it just didn't 1:06:26.600 --> 1:06:30.280 get there. And then after a couple of drafts and 1:06:30.360 --> 1:06:33.160 this and that, I felt we had it. Okay, you 1:06:33.200 --> 1:06:35.600 went on earlier than you were a TV guy. It 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:40.439 was very immediate. Now you're working in the movies, are 1:06:40.480 --> 1:06:44.200 you still ultimately disillusioned because my interestandings, you don't go 1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:47.280 on to make a whole bunch of movies. That's true. 1:06:47.320 --> 1:06:50.880 I made about five movies, and I really liked TV better. 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:54.480 It was it suited my personality better, which was immediate 1:06:54.640 --> 1:06:57.280 and go for it and do it and aggressive, and 1:06:57.360 --> 1:07:03.040 so TV fitted better. But I had to deal with that, 1:07:03.080 --> 1:07:05.760 and I had. Then I saw a script and I 1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:12.360 went to see a play called Extremities, and Extremities was 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:15.600 absolutely wonderful. It was a story about a woman that 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:19.040 was watched by a man who wanted to get her 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:21.080 and beat her and rape her. And he watched her 1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:23.640 leave her house, go to work, come back and work, 1:07:24.120 --> 1:07:27.320 and so he goes and captures her, gets her in 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:32.040 the apartment, and lo and behold, this woman turns the 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:36.720 tables on him and somehow you got to see the film. 1:07:37.320 --> 1:07:39.720 What she does is take him prisoner, and it was 1:07:39.760 --> 1:07:42.560 fair a faucet in the film. And she did a 1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:46.600 fabulous job, just fabulous job. I did another film called 1:07:46.680 --> 1:07:49.840 Crimes to the Heart with Jessica Lang's Sissy Spacek and 1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:52.919 just some fun things that I did because I liked 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:58.920 the scripts. And then I after that, I started getting 1:07:58.960 --> 1:08:03.520 out of that business and kind of leaving the entertainment 1:08:03.560 --> 1:08:06.400 business and going in some businesses, Like I say, I 1:08:06.440 --> 1:08:08.720 went in the hamburger business. How do you do that? Well, 1:08:08.760 --> 1:08:12.440 I did it when the hamburger business a little slower. 1:08:12.480 --> 1:08:15.120 What was the name of your hamburger, Jane? What were 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:19.640 you doing in the hamburger business? I went. I was 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:22.960 in New Orleans and I had a meeting in the afternoon. 1:08:23.080 --> 1:08:27.000 I was in Nolands and I wanted to get a 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:29.360 quick burger and go by McDonald's. And I was driving 1:08:29.400 --> 1:08:32.240 by this McDonald's and I see in their line there 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:34.320 was like twenty five cars and I didn't have that 1:08:34.400 --> 1:08:38.000 much time. And across the street was a little place 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:40.439 that had a line on each side of the building 1:08:41.080 --> 1:08:44.120 double drive through. This is like nineteen eighty six, eighties, 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:48.240 eighty seven, eighty eight, and I had never seen that. 1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:51.160 In the line were only four or five cars. I 1:08:51.200 --> 1:08:55.640 went there, I got a burger, I got fries, milkshake. 1:08:56.439 --> 1:09:00.120 I loved it. I ordered some more fries. Loved that. 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:02.080 You couldn't sit out inside. He had two or through 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:06.559 tables outside. There was no inside. Small little building called Rallies. 1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:11.439 Oh well, Rallies. So I went back that night after 1:09:11.520 --> 1:09:14.479 my afternoon meeting with a man named al Copeland, who 1:09:14.479 --> 1:09:18.200 owned some restaurants in New Orleans dinner restaurants and was 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:20.880 very well known. And I went back and I said 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:22.519 the guy who's a manager, He said, I am, and 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:24.080 I own it. Talked to him for a while, and 1:09:24.120 --> 1:09:28.680 I bought that store. You bought it? Yes, I bought it. 1:09:29.600 --> 1:09:32.720 And from there I started a chain called Rallies. And 1:09:32.800 --> 1:09:35.120 after I had about forty of them, there was a 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.600 chain that was similar, double drive through called Checkers, and 1:09:38.720 --> 1:09:42.559 that started in Alabama. I bought that and I merged 1:09:42.600 --> 1:09:44.800 it with Rallies, kept both of their names, and I 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.800 went from that one store to about nine hundred and 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:52.080 twenty stores and sold the two chains. How do you 1:09:52.120 --> 1:10:00.559 decide when to sell? Gut? That's it? Gut? Did I 1:10:00.600 --> 1:10:07.320 want to continue to build them? Mary and I, and 1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:09.840 as I said, I had an airplane used to fly 1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:13.760 to two and three cities a day, because before I 1:10:13.840 --> 1:10:17.280 built a store which was a Rallies or a Checkers, 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:21.920 I wanted to see the location, and I wanted to 1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:24.280 be on the proper corner, and I wanted to know 1:10:24.320 --> 1:10:27.479 what traffic was under thirty eight miles an hour going 1:10:27.560 --> 1:10:30.720 by there, and I wanted to be near a McDonald's 1:10:30.840 --> 1:10:33.400 right if there was McDonald's close by with one drive 1:10:33.479 --> 1:10:36.280 through who they'd always have a line and I'd get 1:10:36.320 --> 1:10:40.200 some of their business. And so I was really working 1:10:40.240 --> 1:10:44.120 at it, and I thought, that's enough, that's okay maybe now, 1:10:44.160 --> 1:10:47.240 and gut told me to leave it and do something else. 1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:51.559 So it was obviously very successful. What was the thrill 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:58.360 relative to entertainment personally? Major? Major? Because I enjoyed what 1:10:58.400 --> 1:11:01.120 I was doing. I thought the product was terrific. I 1:11:01.160 --> 1:11:03.960 had battered fries and I thought they were absolutely wonderful. 1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:08.880 And I told my staff in there, and they didn't 1:11:08.880 --> 1:11:11.960 all know me because I had so many, so I 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:16.360 could go buy them and mystery shop, I could walk 1:11:16.439 --> 1:11:18.880 in make sure that John's were clean and the place 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:22.040 was okay. They didn't know I was. And I found 1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:25.040 out a few things. I found out that my managers 1:11:25.040 --> 1:11:28.839 were better as female than male. There was less thievery, 1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:32.880 almost none with females males. They would be given up 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:35.360 twenty burgers out to their buddies or this or that, 1:11:35.439 --> 1:11:38.080 and you had to watch that kind of stuff. And 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:40.880 so I love to have female managers at the stores. 1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:45.960 And I just enjoyed the fries. I thought they were 1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:49.880 really good, better than McDonald's and the burgers. We were 1:11:50.000 --> 1:11:52.280 careful to make sure we had the right amount of meat, 1:11:52.400 --> 1:11:56.280 that it had the proper heat, and how we put 1:11:56.360 --> 1:11:59.719 burgers with automatic heaters on top of them so nobody 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:03.120 ever get eat kohli or whatever. I enjoyed the whole process. 1:12:03.560 --> 1:12:07.080 I just really loved it. How are your arteries? Well, 1:12:07.120 --> 1:12:11.519 I'm still around today, right with you, Bob, And then 1:12:11.800 --> 1:12:14.400 mine are not that great. So you said you got 1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:20.760 in the cement business. Another another podcast, Bob. Okay, just 1:12:21.040 --> 1:12:23.080 I love talking to you too, because you ask me 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:26.160 wonderful questions that really make me think back, and I 1:12:26.200 --> 1:12:30.120 really appreciate that I do. But we've got another part 1:12:30.120 --> 1:12:32.719 of my life maybe again. Okay, but before we wrap 1:12:32.840 --> 1:12:36.800 up a couple of things. With so much experience in hindsight, 1:12:37.400 --> 1:12:40.559 what do you think about today's television business? What do 1:12:40.640 --> 1:12:43.640 we know? Television drives the culture in a way that 1:12:43.720 --> 1:12:47.559 no other art form does movies or music. It's moved 1:12:47.600 --> 1:12:51.519 to streaming. There's a plethora of product. What do you 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:56.479 think about today's landscape? I think streaming. I just think 1:12:56.520 --> 1:13:00.920 streaming is absolutely the way to go. There used to 1:13:00.920 --> 1:13:02.599 be a show that you could look at at eight 1:13:02.600 --> 1:13:05.439 o'clock on a Tuesday night and it was wonderful. But 1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:07.960 the next Tuesday night you couldn't. You weren't in town, 1:13:08.040 --> 1:13:11.000 you were working, you had a meeting, you had a 1:13:11.000 --> 1:13:14.479 birthday party something, and so you'd missed the week's later show. 1:13:14.600 --> 1:13:16.800 Streaming you see him when you want to see him. 1:13:18.360 --> 1:13:20.400 I think that so many of them do it well. 1:13:20.560 --> 1:13:23.400 Netflix has done it well. And the management and Netflix 1:13:23.479 --> 1:13:26.800 look back where they started from. You know, read hastings, 1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:29.759 ted surrenders. They started out with DVD's in the store 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:35.360 and they're still putting out music and product and great shows. 1:13:35.800 --> 1:13:37.760 But a lot of them do you know, they're not 1:13:37.840 --> 1:13:42.400 just that paramount. Plus, my friends all watch Yellowstone love it. 1:13:44.360 --> 1:13:46.720 Who are these people? Who are some of them? Who 1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:51.120 are the writers of some of them? It's just streaming 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:52.840 is the way to go. And if I was going 1:13:52.880 --> 1:13:55.400 to go back in that business now, which I never 1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:59.519 know what I'm gonna do next, streaming is what I 1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:03.120 loved to do. Chess love to do. Make a show 1:14:03.160 --> 1:14:04.920 that you can let ten of them out on the 1:14:04.960 --> 1:14:07.640 same day and people can watch all of them on 1:14:07.680 --> 1:14:09.840 a weekend if you love it, or watch them when 1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:13.280 they can watch them. So and there's so many gray 1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:16.200 have you seen Yellowstone, Bob tell you the Truth? That's 1:14:16.240 --> 1:14:19.599 one show I haven't seen. Yeah, it's worth looking yet. 1:14:20.320 --> 1:14:24.799 It really is. Kevin Costner's terrific. The show is just great. 1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:27.559 In eighteen eighty three, and where it goes from there 1:14:27.600 --> 1:14:31.880 in nineteen twenty three, all spinoffs, all terrific. I think 1:14:31.920 --> 1:14:35.960 that's paramount plus. But I'm pretty familiar with it. You know. 1:14:36.000 --> 1:14:39.240 It's kind of like succession. You fall behind and then 1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:43.559 it's monolithic to start up. And you know, I have 1:14:43.600 --> 1:14:45.760 a list of all the stuff that I'm watching. There's 1:14:45.800 --> 1:14:49.240 so much good television from around the world. Especially you 1:14:49.360 --> 1:14:54.040 mentioned that you don't know what you're doing next. Are 1:14:54.080 --> 1:15:00.479 you still actively involved in businesses? Absolutely, morning to night, 1:15:00.560 --> 1:15:02.519 seven days a week. You can call me and tell 1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:04.160 me you've got an ID and let's try and do 1:15:04.200 --> 1:15:08.240 it together. The other thing, especially in this era of 1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:14.920 financial unpredictability, you've made a lot of money. Where do 1:15:15.000 --> 1:15:20.479 you invest your money? I don't think I'll go there. 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:23.880 I will tell you. The philanthropy is very important to 1:15:23.960 --> 1:15:25.880 Mary and I. Right now, Mary sits on the board 1:15:25.920 --> 1:15:29.439 of Children's Hospital Los Angeles. That's important to us. And 1:15:29.600 --> 1:15:34.000 there's a group of charities that are really really important 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:36.919 to us. We're always looking for others and we focus 1:15:37.080 --> 1:15:40.240 a lot on that and if there's something that we 1:15:40.280 --> 1:15:42.680 can do in the entertainment business to make some of 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:47.920 these things better known. While Vince Scully was alive, Mary 1:15:48.000 --> 1:15:52.879 talked to Vinny and he was the voice of Children's Hospital, 1:15:53.000 --> 1:15:56.599 Los Angeles, and I have videotape of Annie and Mary 1:15:56.720 --> 1:16:00.959 on the floor at Children's Hospital with Paul Viviane, the president, 1:16:01.400 --> 1:16:05.360 playing with some kids whose hair is shaved because of operations, 1:16:05.439 --> 1:16:08.439 who are healing and this and that with these children, 1:16:08.920 --> 1:16:12.600 and that just gets my heart just so wonderful to 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:15.880 see in Vince Gully's voice. And now a lot of 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:19.799 the Los Angeles Dodgers come over, and it's interesting because 1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:22.400 the six years olds, six years and seven and eight 1:16:22.479 --> 1:16:24.479 year olds, they don't know who the players are. The 1:16:24.600 --> 1:16:27.400 fourteen year olds that are in the hospital they do. 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:31.080 So it's seeing some of them come over there and 1:16:31.520 --> 1:16:34.479 they're attracted to the little bit the older ones. So 1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:38.040 we just enjoy that so much. Now, you mentioned your 1:16:38.040 --> 1:16:40.400 health is good. What's it like having so many of 1:16:40.439 --> 1:16:46.600 your contemporaries pass. It's depressing, that's what it is. I 1:16:46.720 --> 1:16:48.479 see some of them do, and I see some of 1:16:48.479 --> 1:16:50.559 them are alive. I talked to a fellow yesterday by 1:16:50.640 --> 1:16:54.200 the name of David Permott. David's been a producer around 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:57.639 for years. He just called me and said, I saw 1:16:58.080 --> 1:17:04.320 the midnight special TV show on YouTube Bert fifty years congratulations, 1:17:04.360 --> 1:17:07.080 Why did you wait so long? And we were on 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:11.240 for forty five minutes last night, late last night, with 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:14.920 him telling me about a show that he's gonna stream now, 1:17:15.520 --> 1:17:18.280 which I can't tell you about. I wish I could, 1:17:18.760 --> 1:17:22.880 but it sounds fabulous and the star that he's got 1:17:22.920 --> 1:17:26.080 gonna be in that it's wonderful. And again, I just 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:29.800 really enjoy streaming, whether it's looking Have you looked at 1:17:30.080 --> 1:17:32.880 by the way Succession there in their last year, right, 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:36.479 And of course Mary and I watched Succession. Love it. 1:17:36.720 --> 1:17:38.880 Have you seen poker Face? You'll get a kick out 1:17:38.880 --> 1:17:41.519 of that, you know, I know poker Faced. I've watched 1:17:42.040 --> 1:17:45.559 about a few episodes. I must say, I'm very into 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:50.280 this foreign television. The Israelis in the Danes I find 1:17:50.439 --> 1:17:54.200 make you know, have the reputation of making the best 1:17:54.640 --> 1:18:01.280 international television like foud Oh found unbelievable. Unbelieve one of 1:18:01.280 --> 1:18:05.960 the best ever, right, and then the show that Homeland 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:10.439 was based in Israeli show Schu Green. We're watching on 1:18:10.560 --> 1:18:14.880 Amazon right now, an Indian show South Asian, shall we say, 1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:18.920 called Fakes Farsi. It's really good. There's a new season 1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:21.439 of this English show. It's not in America yet. That 1:18:21.560 --> 1:18:25.439 I always say is my number one recommendation called Happy Valley? 1:18:25.479 --> 1:18:27.920 Have you seen Happy Valley? It's a crime. Oh, I 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:31.040 don't even know the title. This is a number one 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:34.040 show in England. Mary sitting next to me writing that 1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:40.080 down right now, Okay, how about Spiral Have you seen? Spiral? No? 1:18:40.080 --> 1:18:45.920 No is a French show co production with the English 1:18:45.960 --> 1:18:50.559 basically the best cop show you'll ever see on what streamer? 1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:54.000 Do you remember? I think you know? These things move around. 1:18:54.040 --> 1:18:58.000 I watch one or two seasons for free on Amazon. 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:03.160 I think the restaurant m ac Mega hurts. Okay, Spi 1:19:03.439 --> 1:19:07.960 r ala absolutely. Now, let's be clear, since you're a pro, 1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:10.840 they don't make them every year, and they've now made 1:19:10.840 --> 1:19:14.599 the final episode, so when you watch the first season, 1:19:14.720 --> 1:19:19.719 the transfers won't be as possibly good, but they're great. 1:19:20.360 --> 1:19:23.280 I mean, I could go. The other classic show is 1:19:23.320 --> 1:19:28.639 called a French Village, which is another French show about 1:19:28.720 --> 1:19:31.519 during the Resistance. If we know that one. Oh yeah, 1:19:31.560 --> 1:19:36.240 we know French Village, Yes, great and tremendous. The original 1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:40.439 border in the Killing from Denmark. They've been remade as 1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:43.479 American shows. Mary is shaking her head. Yes and I 1:19:43.520 --> 1:19:48.840 can't remember it. How about Occupied? If you watched Occupied Occupied? Yes, Occupied, 1:19:48.880 --> 1:19:52.400 we know exactly I mean these show. How about Fauda? 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:56.000 How about this last season of Fauda? Wasn't that amazing? Okay, 1:19:56.200 --> 1:20:02.760 explain that guy Duran so much charisma. He's like an 1:20:02.800 --> 1:20:07.599 anti hero because by American standards, they wouldn't even cast him. 1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:10.960 You're right, good, look, right whatever. You know that he 1:20:11.040 --> 1:20:13.559 used to be a bodyguard in America before he was 1:20:13.600 --> 1:20:15.920 the Starfire. I didn't know that his name is Lere 1:20:16.080 --> 1:20:21.040 and boys something. Wow, he's a star. It's just you know, 1:20:21.880 --> 1:20:27.679 usually when the shows play multiple seasons, they get worse, 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:35.719 but not this show, and it's sad. Second, Mary, come on, Mary, 1:20:35.760 --> 1:20:39.960 come on one second. We're not using the video so 1:20:40.080 --> 1:20:43.760 it doesn't just no videos. Just come up, just come 1:20:43.840 --> 1:20:52.799 take a peek to see you. We can television forever, 1:20:56.600 --> 1:20:59.280 you know. There there's just so many good shows and 1:20:59.400 --> 1:21:02.160 you and you see it there and I you know, 1:21:02.640 --> 1:21:05.320 a lot of people depend on the algorithm. I study it. 1:21:05.400 --> 1:21:09.200 I say, it's such an investment to watch these shows 1:21:09.240 --> 1:21:13.280 that I want to owe the other show that is unbelievable. 1:21:13.880 --> 1:21:18.800 Did you watch this French show The Bureau? No, no, no, 1:21:18.880 --> 1:21:21.840 we don't write it down on the Bureau. No. The 1:21:22.000 --> 1:21:27.720 Bureau is the French Cia. Okay, now I'm gonna warn 1:21:27.760 --> 1:21:30.760 you right up front. It starts off slow. It's an 1:21:30.800 --> 1:21:35.280 intense show, but it is just like a movie. It 1:21:35.479 --> 1:21:42.320 is unbelievable. The Bureau. Yes, okay, while we're talking, did 1:21:42.320 --> 1:21:48.520 you watch Borgan? Yes, yes, yes, unbelievable. There's this sweetish 1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:54.519 show called Bonus Family. It's on Netflix about a blended family. 1:21:55.240 --> 1:22:01.960 Really good. I don't know that one. You've watched narc obviously, yes, yes. 1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:04.439 Could I give you a book? I have a book 1:22:04.479 --> 1:22:06.720 for you to read, Okay, well, I know you. I 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:11.200 know you'll love it. It's called Easy Writers Raging Bulls. 1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:15.320 I read it, of course, I read it. Okay, all right, 1:22:15.720 --> 1:22:21.080 Peter watched his name Peter begins, Yes, yes, Peter biskind right, right. 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:24.840 I've even seen him speak about that really phenomenal Oh, 1:22:24.840 --> 1:22:29.800 this is a magical show Ethos. Did you watch Ethos? No, 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:33.080 we've seen it advertised, but have not seen it. Oh 1:22:33.120 --> 1:22:39.120 it's really intense Turkish show. Listen. I'll leave you with that. 1:22:39.320 --> 1:22:43.519 But uh, you know that's my highlight of the day 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:47.439 watching streaming television. No. And I love these suggestions, honestly, 1:22:47.720 --> 1:22:50.760 I really do. But most of all, I like your 1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:53.280 questions because they've never been asked some of these before. 1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:56.559 And I really enjoy this, this hour or whatever it is, 1:22:56.600 --> 1:22:59.719 I love it. Thank you are you know you've been 1:22:59.800 --> 1:23:03.880 the air and done that. To me, that is fascinating. 1:23:04.080 --> 1:23:07.040 I mean we didn't go really deeply into it, but 1:23:07.320 --> 1:23:11.800 I know how hard it is to be successful, and 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:15.200 most people are a successful saying, oh, it wasn't that 1:23:15.320 --> 1:23:18.280 big of a deal. Oh, believe me, it was. So 1:23:18.360 --> 1:23:21.440 I'm a student of the game. What is the personality? 1:23:21.479 --> 1:23:24.400 What the relationships? You know, I grew up on the 1:23:24.439 --> 1:23:27.960 East Coast and the East coast, it's all about where 1:23:28.000 --> 1:23:31.360 you went to college, who your parents are whereas in 1:23:31.520 --> 1:23:33.599 LA the most important thing is what kind of car 1:23:33.680 --> 1:23:38.640 you drive, which is just phone enough. But none of 1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:43.400 that matters. Everybody's a self starter and the people who 1:23:43.439 --> 1:23:48.040 have made it to the top. They're always very intelligent 1:23:48.240 --> 1:23:51.200 and they have an amazing story. I won't keep you 1:23:51.240 --> 1:23:54.080 any longer. Bird, it's been wonderful talking to you. Thanks 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:56.800 for taking the time to speak to my audience. Bob, 1:23:57.000 --> 1:24:00.559 a pleasure visiting with you. Thank you so much. And 1:24:00.760 --> 1:24:03.519 as we say, you know I was watching last night 1:24:03.560 --> 1:24:05.280 that I not that I haven't watched them. Some of 1:24:05.320 --> 1:24:10.439 these performances are just utterly riveting. I mean there's stuff 1:24:10.520 --> 1:24:14.120 you see. You know, forget the big hits, you know, 1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:19.880 like Linda Ronstad doing Long, Long Time, etc. But Redbone 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.679 come and get your Love. I mean, I know that's 1:24:22.680 --> 1:24:26.760 on to see them perform that live. And there were 1:24:26.800 --> 1:24:30.000 a couple of old Jerry Wright doing Love Is Alive. 1:24:30.120 --> 1:24:33.439 That's my favorite song. And to watch him play you know, 1:24:33.560 --> 1:24:37.720 the keytar, the keyboard. You know, it's very hard to 1:24:37.760 --> 1:24:40.160 turn off. And I'm not blowing smoke up your Rearran, 1:24:40.280 --> 1:24:42.840 it's you know, it's great that this stuff is available. 1:24:43.080 --> 1:24:45.800 Well every week, every week on Monday mornings, I'm going 1:24:45.840 --> 1:24:49.320 to put up another ten or fifteen that are unique, 1:24:49.320 --> 1:24:51.760 and you love you all love them all. But there'll 1:24:51.760 --> 1:24:54.360 be some that will be favorites of yours. Okay, just 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:58.800 to be very clear, because I was in preparation, I 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:02.920 was going on you Tube to watch your channel. Specifically, 1:25:03.040 --> 1:25:05.760 you have to search to me on your channel. What's 1:25:05.800 --> 1:25:09.880 the name of your channel? Again? Midnight Special TV Show, 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:13.840 So for those at home, go to Midnight Special TV 1:25:14.000 --> 1:25:17.600 Show for the authorized versions. Although Bert is very up 1:25:17.640 --> 1:25:20.120 to date, he doesn't want to kill the other people. 1:25:20.120 --> 1:25:22.800 He's realized in building the audience, he's in business with 1:25:22.880 --> 1:25:25.960 them and Bert. I'll leave it at that, Thanks again, 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:30.400 my pleasure. Until next time. This is Bob left Sets