WEBVTT - Scaling Clean Energy to Power India’s Growing Demand 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.040 This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.280 the B and EF podcast, and today we bring you 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.639 a recording from our BNIF Summit, New Delhi, which took 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.680 place on the fifth of September. Our summits take place 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.640 in locations around the world and highlight the most pressing 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.640 issues in the energy transition for that region. In India, 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.599 the most populous country in the world, we focus on 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.759 how a global transition to a lower carbon world is 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.000 having an impact on the future of energy, transport and 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.600 finance in that country. The panel featured on today's show 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.360 is titled Scaling up Clean Power to meet India's growing 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.200 energy demand. Now, given India needs to quadruple the amount 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.400 of installations of wind and solar capacity in order to 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.800 meet its twenty thirty target, what are the steps that 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.720 must be taken to make this possible well. The panelists 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:53.159 today explore the challenges and opportunities for power sector decarbonization, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.160 highlighting the role technology will play, including renewables and the 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.560 important role of grids, but also highlighting nuclear and energy storage, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.600 along with the impact of AI as a source of 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:09.800 energy demand. Panelists include Giorgio Fortunato, head of Clean Energy 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.600 and Power for Asia Pacific at Google, Kavitia Saha, Managing 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.240 Director and Head of Infrastructure and Sustainable Energies for India 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.280 at CPP Investments, Amit Singh, chief Executive Officer of A 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.480 Donnie Green Energy, and Gurdip Singh, Chairman and Managing Director 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.880 at NTPC Limited. This panel was moderated by bn EF 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.319 India specialist Rohit Gadre. For more information regarding BNF summits 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.679 and to view recordings from this event, including BNF talks 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.120 that were delivered by our analysts, there head to about 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:45.040 dot BNF dot Com forward slash Summit forward slash New Delhi. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.600 Right now, let's hear from the panel brought to you 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.000 from BNF Summit, New Delhi. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.680 And guess now firmly back on the growth track after 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.320 a few blips that we saw in the last few years. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.000 In fact, this year, BNF forecasts that India will add 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.640 more wind and solar than it has ever done before. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.400 Now our growing power demand has reaffirmed the importance of 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.280 energy security, but low carbon transition remains front and center 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.919 of policymaking. To discuss the scaling up of clean power 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.920 in the country, we have a very stellar panel with 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.560 us here today, let's start this discussion. I want to 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:36.280 start with Amidji from Adani Green. What is your views 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.880 the project developer? What is the sort of key hurdle 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.280 to really scaling up renewables? 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.160 How do you de risk execution? 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.920 I think I'll phrase my answer a little differently. I 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.880 think if you were to ask a question, what do 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.160 we need to do to move fast to accelerate the 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.720 deployment of renewable I'll start from the bottom of that list. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.639 I think we all are aware of the challenges of 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:08.160 grid connectivity, evacuation. I think there is a plan in place, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.760 but let's talk about what we can solve when we 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:16.079 should and we must solve to accelerate execution and two 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.639 things which and one thing I feel is not captured. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.720 There is people. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:26.600 There is a big gap of people with adequate vocational skills, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.320 ability to retain them, mobilize them to some of the 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.280 project sites and make sure that they are able to 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.839 deliver a high productivity on our projects. I would pick 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.720 that up as a topic of focus, which something we 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.800 are looking at and I think the industry is also 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.400 focusing on. And although supply chain disruption may not look 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:50.680 like an issue. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.040 But if we are looking. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.680 To deliver returns to our shareholders, if you're looking to 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.760 do projects at scale, these supply chain disruptions, test our 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:04.640 to execute, test our limit to move fast. We are 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.120 looking to domestically source these goods. And you know, I 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.480 think it's very well known in the industry that we 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.880 still don't have a very resilient supply chain. I think 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.560 the way time of inverters the transformers is very high, 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.800 and I think there's a huge opportunity to fix that, 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.719 to make investments in that space and make sure that 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.760 we can solve for it. So those are two things 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.479 I would really talk about and maybe you know, expand 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.359 on further as we go. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.560 Perfect you mentioned return to shareholders. That's something I'll come 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.880 back to because it's a topic that's that deserves much 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.760 more attention. How do we get these IRRs out? But 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.320 before that, good dig question to you. You know NTPC 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.159 has a twenty thirty two renewable target, but obviously it 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.800 will play a very important role in any Government of 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.160 India plan to scale up the cold fleet to meet 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.480 our energy demand. So how do you see ntpc's sort 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.200 of capacity mix and technology mikes changing out because of 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:07.960 these factors. 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.560 Let's try to understand that we are the largest power 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.960 producer in the country and we remain kind of the 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.720 backbone I think the energy NTPC and power grid. If 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.320 you're just taking and we are not here only merely 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.240 for the profit motive, I think this is important to 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:33.279 be noted and I think for the consumer, it is 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:38.400 important that consumer gets the uninterrupted, reliable power supply. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:44.520 Which is affordable and the transition is inevitable. 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.440 But at this point of time and the short frum, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.559 medium trum long term, what can be the energy mix 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.880 which will ensure that there is no interruption and we 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:57.680 are able to supply. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.520 So we can all these things into mind when we 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:04.279 are going AHT. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.320 So the call base capacity which we are still adding 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.239 and there are some other private developers are also adding 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.640 because that's a necessity at this point of time, because 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:26.320 we are the fastest mowing economy and our energy needs are. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.120 Also intendem and increasing day by day. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.640 So it's important that everybody is having the clean source 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.880 of energy. And as you know that we had connected 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.640 each and every household in the country twenty eighteen nineteen, 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.359 and we have seen the surge in the demand in 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.440 the past few years, so there is a space for everything. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.240 But I think this is this provides this space for 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:56.520 all sorts of energy. Our focus has been mainly in 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.880 the lasts four or five years back that we will 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:04.560 be putting more and more renewable energy, which remains intact. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:06.640 So we have declared that. 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.840 We will be reaching to almost sixty giga or by 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.200 twenty thirty two. And I'm just again reliterating here that 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:20.120 our work is perfectly online as per ower target. In 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.400 addition to that, we are adding some coal capacity, which 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.000 is also important, and by that time we should be 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.679 lending somewhere like sixty forty kind of thing by twenty 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:35.880 twenty thirty two. So I think this is what at 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:36.600 present ganet. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.640 It's the overall scenarios. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:39.520 Thank you, sir. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.120 I'll go to Google next. And we've talked about growth 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.440 in power demand. Now tech companies have also reported very 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.960 strong uptick in their own power consumption because of data centers, 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.520 because of AI, because of various other reasons. Now, how 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.640 does this affect the global goal to have twenty four 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.600 by seven hourly clean matching of clean power? 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.120 Yeah, so I think we need to recognize that the 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.320 energy transition is an inflection point at the moment. So 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.160 we see this growing demand and this demand is becoming 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.560 steeper and steeper, and this of course is a challenge 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.240 for our systems. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:22.840 To put things into perspective. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:27.480 So data centers, industry wide electricity consumption is today estimated 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.160 to be around one percent of the global electricity demand. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:33.640 And where is dress coming from? 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.000 Well, of course, as we continue to electrify and digitize 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:44.800 our systems so heating, transportation, industrial processes, manufacturing, and therefore 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.199 the electricity grids. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.400 Need to adapt to this new wave of demand. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.439 And this is investments in a generation, investments in transmission, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.960 and not only the hardware side of things, but also 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:59.120 the software side of things. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:08:59.960 So how do we make our. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:05.640 Twist these systems more efficient and more effective? Now, the 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:11.040 key question is, as this demand is growing, are we 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.760 gaining enough on energy efficiency? So can we somehow balance 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.680 these growth? Can we offset some of this? And the 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.840 second big question is also as the demand is growing, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.280 is clean energy capacity growing at the same pace, Because 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.480 in order for us to be successful, the clean energy 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.320 capacity need to grow at least at the same speed. 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:37.719 And so let me give you a couple of examples 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.200 of how we are working with these two aspects. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.600 Of energy efficiency and clean energy. So an energy efficiency. 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.960 Compared to three years ago, a Google data center is 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:53.920 five times as efficient as it used to be. So 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.839 we work on this both on the IT side of things. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.960 So our newest TPU Trillium six gener TPU is sixty 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.800 seven percent more efficient than its previous generation. And when 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:07.600 you look at the non IT load, when you look 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.720 at the efficiency of the data centers, a typical Google 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.200 data center is one point eight times more efficient than 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.160 an enterprise data center on average. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.160 So there's a lot of work that we're. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:20.920 Doing on the energy efficiency side of things. That is 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.720 an area of very deep focus for Google on the 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.920 clean energy. So as you mentioned twenty four seven carbon 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:32.240 free energy, so we aim to operate on twenty four 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.400 seven carbon free energy. That means procuring carbon free energy 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.559 every hour of the day in every grid where we 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.439 operate globally, right. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:41.199 And so. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.960 In Asia Pacific, we have signed power purchase agreements in 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:52.120 new markets in the last twelve months Australia, Japan, Singapore, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:58.079 and we continuously actively procure carbon free energy in all 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.400 the markets where we operate where we have data centers 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.720 or where we have cloud presence, and globally this has 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.800 been a record year as well because it's a four 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:12.040 gigabat of carbon free energy power purchase agreements and this 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.640 is more than every year. 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:15.600 Before for Google. 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.120 So you know, keeping that clean energy capacity curve as 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.719 deep as possible as the demand is also growing and 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:24.640 becoming steeper. 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:30.360 Very good, Thank you. I'll go next to Kaveta And 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.760 one of the problems that I think doesn't get spoken 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.640 about quite as much is the fact that renewable projects 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.880 in India, many of them tend to underperform. They don't 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.760 generate as much energy as was initially thought of. Now, 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.640 as an investor, how big of a problem do you 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.200 think this is? And then what can be done to 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.680 really achieve the returns for shareholders? 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:55.959 Yeah, thanks for that, r Hit. 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.480 So if I actually take a step back of is 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:05.320 it that your underwriting has enough cushion built into it 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.240 to be able to handle the on the ground operational 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.120 nuances right? Very frequently, what you have found is that 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.400 there may be one aspect which is underperforming. Maybe you know, 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.960 the number of units which are generated than what is expected. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.720 On the other hand, your cost of delivery of project 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.240 or speed of delivery of project has surprised you on 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.720 the positive. So on overall basis, you know, you're still 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.560 able to come within the range of returns that you 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.559 would have underwritten, but maybe from a different mix of sources. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.440 But I think the one thing, and again, if I 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.319 look at it between solar and wind, I think solar 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.600 has been overall a positive experience because the range of 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.600 variability of what the project delivers is not so much 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.520 and they have definitely been pockets of time when the 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.840 cap cost has surprised you to the post, and so 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:05.360 overall you have ended up getting good returns from projects. Wind, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.920 on the other hand, has been a mixed back and 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.320 specifically over the last few years where you are seeing 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.960 you know, the reversion to the long term mean not 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.360 really happening. So from that perspective, the lost generation on 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:24.760 wind projects is more difficult to underwrite. And I would say, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.000 you know, from the point of view of an investor, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.400 underwriting is a constant learning curve, right, you have to 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.880 keep adjusting your model to what you are learning on 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:39.160 the ground and some of the factors that are driving. Therefore, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.360 the underwriting is how the wind performance has been. You know, 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.520 do you think the P seventy five or the P 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.000 fifty or P ninety is really the true one? Is 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.840 this impacted by micro sighting? And how are you looking at, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.440 you know, the mix of solar and wind projects in 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.079 the sense that are you moving away from or are 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.120 you looking at a less proportion of standalone wind projects. 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.320 I think some of those which keep getting questioned on 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.520 an ongoing basis and we keep you know, driving our 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:09.200 own diseases. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.480 That way, we will come back to that topic of 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.199 you know, wind solar hybrids and sort of combining technologies. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.400 But before that, on this question of technology, I want 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.160 to go back to goodeg. You know, there is a 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.400 renewed focus on the nuclear power sector in India and 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.720 the Finance Minister also very clearly alluded to that in 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:28.600 her budget speech. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:29.920 So what is the. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.800 Role that ntpiece could play in the nuclear sector in India? 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.480 Now, good thank you for that question. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.080 I think I thought, okay, mostly gene people will be 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.480 only solar and when and these days may be on 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.760 the storage, but I think the nuclear is going to 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:52.320 be a very important part. And I think for the 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.680 last two years we had been working on this area 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:03.440 and now we have a joint venture with NPCIL and 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.080 in next month or so we will start finding it 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.920 and it's news that we will we start work on 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.320 our first nuclear power plant which is going to be 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.080 four into seven hundred megavat. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.960 This is in the joint venture as it is just mentioned. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.680 And going forward, we are looking ahead for the SMR 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:30.600 and the MMR and also we are looking at the 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.840 large size nuclear power plants across the country. We are 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.040 in dialogue with at least four to five states to 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:45.000 have the suitable site for that. Going forward, I think 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.000 the nuclear will become quite important from the base load 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:54.000 point of view unless there is a completely breakthrough in 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.560 something the storage solution, which is going to be much 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.160 much more cheaper and tibal there is something new technology 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:03.200 which really emerges. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:04.640 But otherwise, also I. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:09.120 Think the nuclear seems to be taking the CTU and 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.400 which will be able to provide the twenty four y 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:21.160 seven carbon free genetic energy source. And let's include here 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.320 that also that the hydrogen which is much talked about 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.400 subject as of today and it's the fuel for future 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.520 nuclear is going to play very important role in that also. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:38.320 So we are quite focused on this so nuclear. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.360 Large size or the SMRs going forward and carbon capture 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.520 and utilization are going to become the integral part of 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:54.880 the energy security to provide the energy needs pervent perfect. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:55.600 Thank you, sir. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.680 India has taken somewhat of a UNI path in its 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.399 auctions of renewables, both in terms of volume but also 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.560 now in terms of the innovation of first doing wind 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.320 solar hybrids and now there are various types of complex projects, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:17.240 different combinations of wind solar storage with different supply terms 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:22.000 to improve the generation profile of renewables, to get renewables 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.159 closer to what eventually is needed. My question will be 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.400 to omit you on this one. Now, a Dani Green 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.520 has been the first mover in wind solar hybrids. There 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.080 are a number of projects that are already commissioned, but 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.679 so far we haven't seen the company do round the 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.000 clock or FDI projects. So what is your outlook on 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.600 the future of these complex projects in India and what 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.080 is Adani Green's strategy in this space. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.880 Yeah, look, I think if I step back, I think 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.320 our approach is very simple. I think we want to 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.200 be the low cost generator in the country by default, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.960 and we don't look at low cost only at our 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.879 side of generation, but also we take into account a 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.239 system as well in which we are injecting, because that's 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.320 where the value gets created and I think our customers 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.560 are asking for it as well, So keeping that in mind, 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.600 I think it's important that we look at hybrid projects 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:22.200 which are co located, and we've done those projects successfully 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.320 as you allude it to, and we continue to focus 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.639 to develop project sites where we can combine both solar 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.600 and wind, and I think that partially addresses the topic 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.040 of investment as well, because it is true that I 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.080 think the wind has not performed close to the long 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.919 term averages over the last few years. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:43.560 But it's also true. 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.200 That our understanding of weather is not as good as 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.840 it needs to be. We are far far behind where 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.200 the industry needs to be where we are, and that's 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.960 something which we are taking very seriously to both understand 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.600 short term and long term weather patterns and make sure 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.879 that our investment case is is kind of de risked 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.280 by a good understanding of weather, and keeping that in mind, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:10.560 our approach is very simple, focus on co located hybrid 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:15.719 projects and look at large scale palm storage projects also 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:20.119 to deliver a high CUF and high RTC projects. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:21.440 So we're also. 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:22.440 Developed developing and. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.719 We plan to have five plus gigawadscale palm storage project. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.479 We'll come back, We'll come back to palm storage. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.720 Yeah, sir, so, I think that's our approach and we 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.320 feel that we'll kind of secure our you know, brid 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:35.680 as well. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.560 If I can just follow up a little bit on this, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.720 you mentioned that our understanding of the weather over different 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.840 time scales is not as good as it should be. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.640 Is there something specific you can tell us on how 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.520 this sort of risk is being mitigated by the industry. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:50.760 Yeah, I think. 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.679 Look, I think if you look at the density of 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.720 weather stations we have and the frequency at which we 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.800 measure these weather patterns in our country, especially project sites, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.040 noway close to what we need for doing a very 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.840 high quality macrostrating as a as A as a company, 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.480 as as A as as Adani. We are proactively investing 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:18.359 in putting you know, very sophisticated weather monitoring stations and 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:23.840 tools ahead of projects, especially for wind and but I 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.919 can tell you that when it comes to whether modeling 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.280 and forecasting, the sector needs. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:28.720 To work together. 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.520 We need to work together with the metro agencies in 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.960 India and outside and make sure that we have a 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:41.240 much more robust way of predicting gust movements, predicting wind 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:46.040 changes in short term, long term, for grid balancing, for scheduling, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.840 and that's something which we are taking up as well 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:53.440 with the authorities in India. But I would invite everybody 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.000 to kind of participate in that. 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.920 So we need more data, but we also need all 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:02.640 the stakeholders to work to ironically, got it. I'll continue 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.560 with this topic of sort of hybrid and complex projects. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.359 These are sort of a very new development in the 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.360 market or just the last few years. And now these 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:17.080 projects combine technologies. They're often oversized projects. So how do 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.560 investors assess the case for these projects? 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:21.000 What? What? 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:22.800 What are the things that you would look at if 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.560 this project came to you, Yeah, I think it. 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:26.639 So. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.160 First of all, it starts with what kind of project 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:29.439 is it? 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:29.720 Right? 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:31.040 Is it a hybrid project? 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:31.680 It is it? 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:33.920 Is it RTC? Is it peak power load? 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.640 Following, you know, you have various parameters of project which 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.399 then determine, you know, what is the solution that you 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:46.280 are looking at, whether it's a combination of wind, solar, 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:51.600 solar plus battery pumped hydro which is currently in short supply. 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.479 But you know, so it's uh, it's a question of 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:59.639 what combination of technology solutions would enable you to deliver 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.560 that power. And the again, one of the other parameters 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:08.520 is that how is that stable power being measured? Is 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.360 it time of the day, is it monthly? Is it 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.160 on an annual average? So all of this goes into 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:20.080 the designing itself. The second part of that is uh 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.600 is of course you know the understanding the amount of 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.520 execution which is going to be required right again, as 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.159 I mentioned earlier, and this is going to be a 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.240 common theme that it is a constant learning process. Today 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:37.080 you don't have enough learning from that to kind of 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.679 drive a more you know, confident underwriting. One of the 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:42.640 ways you look at it is of course in terms 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.840 of pricing the risk to the return expectations from these projects. 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:47.679 Now. 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.200 Fortunately, because this is still evolving, I think the competitive 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:55.000 intensity in complex projects today is low, which enables you 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.280 to look at pricing this in a sensible manner. But 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:03.200 I think as the market understanding evolves, you know, your 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.760 underwriting models will become better and then the pricing will 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:07.920 also become fitter. But today I think it is more 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.960 a question of trying to figure out how much is 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.960 the risk, What is the return that I should expect 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.440 to compensate for the risk. 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.160 So it is a learning process for everyone, but there 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:22.480 are some fundamentals that you would still look at. 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.400 Yes, that's right, Georgio. 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.520 Just continuing along these lines, you know, to get to 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.679 twenty four by seven. There are many different sort of 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:35.200