Speaker 1: This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on
Speaker 1: the B and EF podcast, and today we bring you
Speaker 1: a recording from our BNIF Summit, New Delhi, which took
Speaker 1: place on the fifth of September. Our summits take place
Speaker 1: in locations around the world and highlight the most pressing
Speaker 1: issues in the energy transition for that region. In India,
Speaker 1: the most populous country in the world, we focus on
Speaker 1: how a global transition to a lower carbon world is
Speaker 1: having an impact on the future of energy, transport and
Speaker 1: finance in that country. The panel featured on today's show
Speaker 1: is titled Scaling up Clean Power to meet India's growing
Speaker 1: energy demand. Now, given India needs to quadruple the amount
Speaker 1: of installations of wind and solar capacity in order to
Speaker 1: meet its twenty thirty target, what are the steps that
Speaker 1: must be taken to make this possible well. The panelists
Speaker 1: today explore the challenges and opportunities for power sector decarbonization,
Speaker 1: highlighting the role technology will play, including renewables and the
Speaker 1: important role of grids, but also highlighting nuclear and energy storage,
Speaker 1: along with the impact of AI as a source of
Speaker 1: energy demand. Panelists include Giorgio Fortunato, head of Clean Energy
Speaker 1: and Power for Asia Pacific at Google, Kavitia Saha, Managing
Speaker 1: Director and Head of Infrastructure and Sustainable Energies for India
Speaker 1: at CPP Investments, Amit Singh, chief Executive Officer of A
Speaker 1: Donnie Green Energy, and Gurdip Singh, Chairman and Managing Director
Speaker 1: at NTPC Limited. This panel was moderated by bn EF
Speaker 1: India specialist Rohit Gadre. For more information regarding BNF summits
Speaker 1: and to view recordings from this event, including BNF talks
Speaker 1: that were delivered by our analysts, there head to about
Speaker 1: dot BNF dot Com forward slash Summit forward slash New Delhi.
Speaker 1: Right now, let's hear from the panel brought to you
Speaker 1: from BNF Summit, New Delhi.
Speaker 2: And guess now firmly back on the growth track after
Speaker 2: a few blips that we saw in the last few years.
Speaker 2: In fact, this year, BNF forecasts that India will add
Speaker 2: more wind and solar than it has ever done before.
Speaker 2: Now our growing power demand has reaffirmed the importance of
Speaker 2: energy security, but low carbon transition remains front and center
Speaker 2: of policymaking. To discuss the scaling up of clean power
Speaker 2: in the country, we have a very stellar panel with
Speaker 2: us here today, let's start this discussion. I want to
Speaker 2: start with Amidji from Adani Green. What is your views
Speaker 2: the project developer? What is the sort of key hurdle
Speaker 2: to really scaling up renewables?
Speaker 3: How do you de risk execution?
Speaker 4: I think I'll phrase my answer a little differently. I
Speaker 4: think if you were to ask a question, what do
Speaker 4: we need to do to move fast to accelerate the
Speaker 4: deployment of renewable I'll start from the bottom of that list.
Speaker 4: I think we all are aware of the challenges of
Speaker 4: grid connectivity, evacuation. I think there is a plan in place,
Speaker 4: but let's talk about what we can solve when we
Speaker 4: should and we must solve to accelerate execution and two
Speaker 4: things which and one thing I feel is not captured.
Speaker 3: There is people.
Speaker 4: There is a big gap of people with adequate vocational skills,
Speaker 4: ability to retain them, mobilize them to some of the
Speaker 4: project sites and make sure that they are able to
Speaker 4: deliver a high productivity on our projects. I would pick
Speaker 4: that up as a topic of focus, which something we
Speaker 4: are looking at and I think the industry is also
Speaker 4: focusing on. And although supply chain disruption may not look
Speaker 4: like an issue.
Speaker 3: But if we are looking.
Speaker 4: To deliver returns to our shareholders, if you're looking to
Speaker 4: do projects at scale, these supply chain disruptions, test our
Speaker 4: to execute, test our limit to move fast. We are
Speaker 4: looking to domestically source these goods. And you know, I
Speaker 4: think it's very well known in the industry that we
Speaker 4: still don't have a very resilient supply chain. I think
Speaker 4: the way time of inverters the transformers is very high,
Speaker 4: and I think there's a huge opportunity to fix that,
Speaker 4: to make investments in that space and make sure that
Speaker 4: we can solve for it. So those are two things
Speaker 4: I would really talk about and maybe you know, expand
Speaker 4: on further as we go.
Speaker 2: Perfect you mentioned return to shareholders. That's something I'll come
Speaker 2: back to because it's a topic that's that deserves much
Speaker 2: more attention. How do we get these IRRs out? But
Speaker 2: before that, good dig question to you. You know NTPC
Speaker 2: has a twenty thirty two renewable target, but obviously it
Speaker 2: will play a very important role in any Government of
Speaker 2: India plan to scale up the cold fleet to meet
Speaker 2: our energy demand. So how do you see ntpc's sort
Speaker 2: of capacity mix and technology mikes changing out because of
Speaker 2: these factors.
Speaker 5: Let's try to understand that we are the largest power
Speaker 5: producer in the country and we remain kind of the
Speaker 5: backbone I think the energy NTPC and power grid. If
Speaker 5: you're just taking and we are not here only merely
Speaker 5: for the profit motive, I think this is important to
Speaker 5: be noted and I think for the consumer, it is
Speaker 5: important that consumer gets the uninterrupted, reliable power supply.
Speaker 6: Which is affordable and the transition is inevitable.
Speaker 5: But at this point of time and the short frum,
Speaker 5: medium trum long term, what can be the energy mix
Speaker 5: which will ensure that there is no interruption and we
Speaker 5: are able to supply.
Speaker 6: So we can all these things into mind when we
Speaker 6: are going AHT.
Speaker 5: So the call base capacity which we are still adding
Speaker 5: and there are some other private developers are also adding
Speaker 5: because that's a necessity at this point of time, because
Speaker 5: we are the fastest mowing economy and our energy needs are.
Speaker 6: Also intendem and increasing day by day.
Speaker 5: So it's important that everybody is having the clean source
Speaker 5: of energy. And as you know that we had connected
Speaker 5: each and every household in the country twenty eighteen nineteen,
Speaker 5: and we have seen the surge in the demand in
Speaker 5: the past few years, so there is a space for everything.
Speaker 5: But I think this is this provides this space for
Speaker 5: all sorts of energy. Our focus has been mainly in
Speaker 5: the lasts four or five years back that we will
Speaker 5: be putting more and more renewable energy, which remains intact.
Speaker 6: So we have declared that.
Speaker 5: We will be reaching to almost sixty giga or by
Speaker 5: twenty thirty two. And I'm just again reliterating here that
Speaker 5: our work is perfectly online as per ower target. In
Speaker 5: addition to that, we are adding some coal capacity, which
Speaker 5: is also important, and by that time we should be
Speaker 5: lending somewhere like sixty forty kind of thing by twenty
Speaker 5: twenty thirty two. So I think this is what at
Speaker 5: present ganet.
Speaker 6: It's the overall scenarios.
Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2: I'll go to Google next. And we've talked about growth
Speaker 2: in power demand. Now tech companies have also reported very
Speaker 2: strong uptick in their own power consumption because of data centers,
Speaker 2: because of AI, because of various other reasons. Now, how
Speaker 2: does this affect the global goal to have twenty four
Speaker 2: by seven hourly clean matching of clean power?
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think we need to recognize that the
Speaker 7: energy transition is an inflection point at the moment. So
Speaker 7: we see this growing demand and this demand is becoming
Speaker 7: steeper and steeper, and this of course is a challenge
Speaker 7: for our systems.
Speaker 3: To put things into perspective.
Speaker 7: So data centers, industry wide electricity consumption is today estimated
Speaker 7: to be around one percent of the global electricity demand.
Speaker 3: And where is dress coming from?
Speaker 7: Well, of course, as we continue to electrify and digitize
Speaker 7: our systems so heating, transportation, industrial processes, manufacturing, and therefore
Speaker 7: the electricity grids.
Speaker 3: Need to adapt to this new wave of demand.
Speaker 7: And this is investments in a generation, investments in transmission,
Speaker 7: and not only the hardware side of things, but also
Speaker 7: the software side of things.
Speaker 3: So how do we make our.
Speaker 7: Twist these systems more efficient and more effective? Now, the
Speaker 7: key question is, as this demand is growing, are we
Speaker 7: gaining enough on energy efficiency? So can we somehow balance
Speaker 7: these growth? Can we offset some of this? And the
Speaker 7: second big question is also as the demand is growing,
Speaker 7: is clean energy capacity growing at the same pace, Because
Speaker 7: in order for us to be successful, the clean energy
Speaker 7: capacity need to grow at least at the same speed.
Speaker 7: And so let me give you a couple of examples
Speaker 7: of how we are working with these two aspects.
Speaker 3: Of energy efficiency and clean energy. So an energy efficiency.
Speaker 7: Compared to three years ago, a Google data center is
Speaker 7: five times as efficient as it used to be. So
Speaker 7: we work on this both on the IT side of things.
Speaker 7: So our newest TPU Trillium six gener TPU is sixty
Speaker 7: seven percent more efficient than its previous generation. And when
Speaker 7: you look at the non IT load, when you look
Speaker 7: at the efficiency of the data centers, a typical Google
Speaker 7: data center is one point eight times more efficient than
Speaker 7: an enterprise data center on average.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of work that we're.
Speaker 7: Doing on the energy efficiency side of things. That is
Speaker 7: an area of very deep focus for Google on the
Speaker 7: clean energy. So as you mentioned twenty four seven carbon
Speaker 7: free energy, so we aim to operate on twenty four
Speaker 7: seven carbon free energy. That means procuring carbon free energy
Speaker 7: every hour of the day in every grid where we
Speaker 7: operate globally, right.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 7: In Asia Pacific, we have signed power purchase agreements in
Speaker 7: new markets in the last twelve months Australia, Japan, Singapore,
Speaker 7: and we continuously actively procure carbon free energy in all
Speaker 7: the markets where we operate where we have data centers
Speaker 7: or where we have cloud presence, and globally this has
Speaker 7: been a record year as well because it's a four
Speaker 7: gigabat of carbon free energy power purchase agreements and this
Speaker 7: is more than every year.
Speaker 3: Before for Google.
Speaker 7: So you know, keeping that clean energy capacity curve as
Speaker 7: deep as possible as the demand is also growing and
Speaker 7: becoming steeper.
Speaker 2: Very good, Thank you. I'll go next to Kaveta And
Speaker 2: one of the problems that I think doesn't get spoken
Speaker 2: about quite as much is the fact that renewable projects
Speaker 2: in India, many of them tend to underperform. They don't
Speaker 2: generate as much energy as was initially thought of. Now,
Speaker 2: as an investor, how big of a problem do you
Speaker 2: think this is? And then what can be done to
Speaker 2: really achieve the returns for shareholders?
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for that, r Hit.
Speaker 8: So if I actually take a step back of is
Speaker 8: it that your underwriting has enough cushion built into it
Speaker 8: to be able to handle the on the ground operational
Speaker 8: nuances right? Very frequently, what you have found is that
Speaker 8: there may be one aspect which is underperforming. Maybe you know,
Speaker 8: the number of units which are generated than what is expected.
Speaker 8: On the other hand, your cost of delivery of project
Speaker 8: or speed of delivery of project has surprised you on
Speaker 8: the positive. So on overall basis, you know, you're still
Speaker 8: able to come within the range of returns that you
Speaker 8: would have underwritten, but maybe from a different mix of sources.
Speaker 8: But I think the one thing, and again, if I
Speaker 8: look at it between solar and wind, I think solar
Speaker 8: has been overall a positive experience because the range of
Speaker 8: variability of what the project delivers is not so much
Speaker 8: and they have definitely been pockets of time when the
Speaker 8: cap cost has surprised you to the post, and so
Speaker 8: overall you have ended up getting good returns from projects. Wind,
Speaker 8: on the other hand, has been a mixed back and
Speaker 8: specifically over the last few years where you are seeing
Speaker 8: you know, the reversion to the long term mean not
Speaker 8: really happening. So from that perspective, the lost generation on
Speaker 8: wind projects is more difficult to underwrite. And I would say,
Speaker 8: you know, from the point of view of an investor,
Speaker 8: underwriting is a constant learning curve, right, you have to
Speaker 8: keep adjusting your model to what you are learning on
Speaker 8: the ground and some of the factors that are driving. Therefore,
Speaker 8: the underwriting is how the wind performance has been. You know,
Speaker 8: do you think the P seventy five or the P
Speaker 8: fifty or P ninety is really the true one? Is
Speaker 8: this impacted by micro sighting? And how are you looking at,
Speaker 8: you know, the mix of solar and wind projects in
Speaker 8: the sense that are you moving away from or are
Speaker 8: you looking at a less proportion of standalone wind projects.
Speaker 8: I think some of those which keep getting questioned on
Speaker 8: an ongoing basis and we keep you know, driving our
Speaker 8: own diseases.
Speaker 2: That way, we will come back to that topic of
Speaker 2: you know, wind solar hybrids and sort of combining technologies.
Speaker 2: But before that, on this question of technology, I want
Speaker 2: to go back to goodeg. You know, there is a
Speaker 2: renewed focus on the nuclear power sector in India and
Speaker 2: the Finance Minister also very clearly alluded to that in
Speaker 2: her budget speech.
Speaker 3: So what is the.
Speaker 2: Role that ntpiece could play in the nuclear sector in India?
Speaker 6: Now, good thank you for that question.
Speaker 5: I think I thought, okay, mostly gene people will be
Speaker 5: only solar and when and these days may be on
Speaker 5: the storage, but I think the nuclear is going to
Speaker 5: be a very important part. And I think for the
Speaker 5: last two years we had been working on this area
Speaker 5: and now we have a joint venture with NPCIL and
Speaker 5: in next month or so we will start finding it
Speaker 5: and it's news that we will we start work on
Speaker 5: our first nuclear power plant which is going to be
Speaker 5: four into seven hundred megavat.
Speaker 6: This is in the joint venture as it is just mentioned.
Speaker 5: And going forward, we are looking ahead for the SMR
Speaker 5: and the MMR and also we are looking at the
Speaker 5: large size nuclear power plants across the country. We are
Speaker 5: in dialogue with at least four to five states to
Speaker 5: have the suitable site for that. Going forward, I think
Speaker 5: the nuclear will become quite important from the base load
Speaker 5: point of view unless there is a completely breakthrough in
Speaker 5: something the storage solution, which is going to be much
Speaker 5: much more cheaper and tibal there is something new technology
Speaker 5: which really emerges.
Speaker 6: But otherwise, also I.
Speaker 5: Think the nuclear seems to be taking the CTU and
Speaker 5: which will be able to provide the twenty four y
Speaker 5: seven carbon free genetic energy source. And let's include here
Speaker 5: that also that the hydrogen which is much talked about
Speaker 5: subject as of today and it's the fuel for future
Speaker 5: nuclear is going to play very important role in that also.
Speaker 6: So we are quite focused on this so nuclear.
Speaker 5: Large size or the SMRs going forward and carbon capture
Speaker 5: and utilization are going to become the integral part of
Speaker 5: the energy security to provide the energy needs pervent perfect.
Speaker 6: Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2: India has taken somewhat of a UNI path in its
Speaker 2: auctions of renewables, both in terms of volume but also
Speaker 2: now in terms of the innovation of first doing wind
Speaker 2: solar hybrids and now there are various types of complex projects,
Speaker 2: different combinations of wind solar storage with different supply terms
Speaker 2: to improve the generation profile of renewables, to get renewables
Speaker 2: closer to what eventually is needed. My question will be
Speaker 2: to omit you on this one. Now, a Dani Green
Speaker 2: has been the first mover in wind solar hybrids. There
Speaker 2: are a number of projects that are already commissioned, but
Speaker 2: so far we haven't seen the company do round the
Speaker 2: clock or FDI projects. So what is your outlook on
Speaker 2: the future of these complex projects in India and what
Speaker 2: is Adani Green's strategy in this space.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think if I step back, I think
Speaker 4: our approach is very simple. I think we want to
Speaker 4: be the low cost generator in the country by default,
Speaker 4: and we don't look at low cost only at our
Speaker 4: side of generation, but also we take into account a
Speaker 4: system as well in which we are injecting, because that's
Speaker 4: where the value gets created and I think our customers
Speaker 4: are asking for it as well, So keeping that in mind,
Speaker 4: I think it's important that we look at hybrid projects
Speaker 4: which are co located, and we've done those projects successfully
Speaker 4: as you allude it to, and we continue to focus
Speaker 4: to develop project sites where we can combine both solar
Speaker 4: and wind, and I think that partially addresses the topic
Speaker 4: of investment as well, because it is true that I
Speaker 4: think the wind has not performed close to the long
Speaker 4: term averages over the last few years.
Speaker 6: But it's also true.
Speaker 4: That our understanding of weather is not as good as
Speaker 4: it needs to be. We are far far behind where
Speaker 4: the industry needs to be where we are, and that's
Speaker 4: something which we are taking very seriously to both understand
Speaker 4: short term and long term weather patterns and make sure
Speaker 4: that our investment case is is kind of de risked
Speaker 4: by a good understanding of weather, and keeping that in mind,
Speaker 4: our approach is very simple, focus on co located hybrid
Speaker 4: projects and look at large scale palm storage projects also
Speaker 4: to deliver a high CUF and high RTC projects.
Speaker 6: So we're also.
Speaker 3: Developed developing and.
Speaker 4: We plan to have five plus gigawadscale palm storage project.
Speaker 2: We'll come back, We'll come back to palm storage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sir, so, I think that's our approach and we
Speaker 4: feel that we'll kind of secure our you know, brid
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 2: If I can just follow up a little bit on this,
Speaker 2: you mentioned that our understanding of the weather over different
Speaker 2: time scales is not as good as it should be.
Speaker 2: Is there something specific you can tell us on how
Speaker 2: this sort of risk is being mitigated by the industry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4: Look, I think if you look at the density of
Speaker 4: weather stations we have and the frequency at which we
Speaker 4: measure these weather patterns in our country, especially project sites,
Speaker 4: noway close to what we need for doing a very
Speaker 4: high quality macrostrating as a as A as a company,
Speaker 4: as as A as as Adani. We are proactively investing
Speaker 4: in putting you know, very sophisticated weather monitoring stations and
Speaker 4: tools ahead of projects, especially for wind and but I
Speaker 4: can tell you that when it comes to whether modeling
Speaker 4: and forecasting, the sector needs.
Speaker 3: To work together.
Speaker 4: We need to work together with the metro agencies in
Speaker 4: India and outside and make sure that we have a
Speaker 4: much more robust way of predicting gust movements, predicting wind
Speaker 4: changes in short term, long term, for grid balancing, for scheduling,
Speaker 4: and that's something which we are taking up as well
Speaker 4: with the authorities in India. But I would invite everybody
Speaker 4: to kind of participate in that.
Speaker 2: So we need more data, but we also need all
Speaker 2: the stakeholders to work to ironically, got it. I'll continue
Speaker 2: with this topic of sort of hybrid and complex projects.
Speaker 2: These are sort of a very new development in the
Speaker 2: market or just the last few years. And now these
Speaker 2: projects combine technologies. They're often oversized projects. So how do
Speaker 2: investors assess the case for these projects?
Speaker 3: What? What?
Speaker 2: What are the things that you would look at if
Speaker 2: this project came to you, Yeah, I think it.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 8: First of all, it starts with what kind of project
Speaker 8: is it?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: Is it a hybrid project?
Speaker 3: It is it?
Speaker 6: Is it RTC? Is it peak power load?
Speaker 8: Following, you know, you have various parameters of project which
Speaker 8: then determine, you know, what is the solution that you
Speaker 8: are looking at, whether it's a combination of wind, solar,
Speaker 8: solar plus battery pumped hydro which is currently in short supply.
Speaker 8: But you know, so it's uh, it's a question of
Speaker 8: what combination of technology solutions would enable you to deliver
Speaker 8: that power. And the again, one of the other parameters
Speaker 8: is that how is that stable power being measured? Is
Speaker 8: it time of the day, is it monthly? Is it
Speaker 8: on an annual average? So all of this goes into
Speaker 8: the designing itself. The second part of that is uh
Speaker 8: is of course you know the understanding the amount of
Speaker 8: execution which is going to be required right again, as
Speaker 8: I mentioned earlier, and this is going to be a
Speaker 8: common theme that it is a constant learning process. Today
Speaker 8: you don't have enough learning from that to kind of
Speaker 8: drive a more you know, confident underwriting. One of the
Speaker 8: ways you look at it is of course in terms
Speaker 8: of pricing the risk to the return expectations from these projects.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 8: Fortunately, because this is still evolving, I think the competitive
Speaker 8: intensity in complex projects today is low, which enables you
Speaker 8: to look at pricing this in a sensible manner. But
Speaker 8: I think as the market understanding evolves, you know, your
Speaker 8: underwriting models will become better and then the pricing will
Speaker 8: also become fitter. But today I think it is more
Speaker 8: a question of trying to figure out how much is
Speaker 8: the risk, What is the return that I should expect
Speaker 8: to compensate for the risk.
Speaker 2: So it is a learning process for everyone, but there
Speaker 2: are some fundamentals that you would still look at.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, Georgio.
Speaker 2: Just continuing along these lines, you know, to get to
Speaker 2: twenty four by seven. There are many different sort of
Speaker 2: routes or options available.
Speaker 6: You have on.
Speaker 2: Site projects, off site PPAs. There are various states which
Speaker 2: have utility green tariffs. There is a wreck market or
Speaker 2: green certificate market in India. Now in the India context,
Speaker 2: how do you view all the different options? How do
Speaker 2: you prioritize and choose?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Sure, so there are so many different options. The one
Speaker 7: criteria is impact, of course, So to make sure that
Speaker 7: you know what we do is is it adding incremental
Speaker 7: clean energy into the grid first of all?
Speaker 3: And also you know, is it contributing to a systemic change?
Speaker 7: Because there is no better way to run data centers
Speaker 7: on twenty four seven can of free energy? But what
Speaker 7: good does it make if it just ticks a box
Speaker 7: and it doesn't it doesn't result in a systemic shift? Right,
Speaker 7: So this is what we're trying to do collectively at
Speaker 7: Google and with many partners. We work with so on
Speaker 7: the different procurement options. So one thing that always comes
Speaker 7: up is like the these unbundled REGs, unbandled ecs. So
Speaker 7: just let me let me untack this for a mino
Speaker 7: to share, you know, how we think about it. So
Speaker 7: unbundling means for the developer taking a risk, right because
Speaker 7: they're going to sell the electricity into the market, and
Speaker 7: they're going to sell the unbandled rex ubandled eecs to
Speaker 7: either a separate market or a corporate of taker. So
Speaker 7: there is a very big difference between procuring these unbundled
Speaker 7: eecs from markets where they are very cheap or from
Speaker 7: all the projects, while on the other hand, committing to
Speaker 7: a long term procurement of unbandled eecs that is fundamental
Speaker 7: for the developer to actually face those risks and bring
Speaker 7: the project to financing. So you see, even one one solution,
Speaker 7: one procurement avenue, it can have very different the very
Speaker 7: different value or very different you know impact according to
Speaker 7: how you actually interpret or utilize the procurement avenue. And
Speaker 7: so along those lines, you know on twenty four to
Speaker 7: seven CFE is there's a lot of local procurement aspects
Speaker 7: so when we look at the region, for example, I
Speaker 7: look after the Zapak. You know, we've done things in Japan,
Speaker 7: for example, we have done projects that are very very
Speaker 7: small solar power plants fifty two hundred kiloba aggregated provide
Speaker 7: forty megaba to support the operations of our data center
Speaker 7: in Inzai.
Speaker 3: And so why did you do that?
Speaker 7: Well, because the land is not available, right, We've talked
Speaker 7: about land constraints and permitting.
Speaker 3: So solving for local.
Speaker 7: Issues in specific markets is really the challenge that we
Speaker 7: need to face at the moment. I'll give you another
Speaker 7: example from Taiwan. We have recently announced capital investment in
Speaker 7: partnership with black Rock and here, well, there is not
Speaker 7: enough generation of carbon free energy, right, so we come
Speaker 7: in with a capital investment to actually support the development
Speaker 7: of one gigabat pipeline of solar. And the beauty of
Speaker 7: this particular transaction is also that Taiwan is home to
Speaker 7: one of our data centers, but it's also home to
Speaker 7: many of our suppliers. So Google has set targets for
Speaker 7: twenty four seven carbon free energy. You know, in every
Speaker 7: greed where we operate for our own data centers and
Speaker 7: operations but also we have an at zero goal, so
Speaker 7: we are actively helping and supporting our suppliers to de
Speaker 7: carbonize their own operations. And so this deal is particularly
Speaker 7: interesting because it captures both. You know, we will have
Speaker 7: the opportunity to offer some of this capacity to our suppliers.
Speaker 7: So you know, I think there are many different procurement avenues.
Speaker 7: Is how we utilize them and how do we make impact?
Speaker 7: And the last point specifically you ask on India is
Speaker 7: some of these procurement avenues are already available.
Speaker 3: But for us, really.
Speaker 7: What works well is when we have multiple procurement avenues available.
Speaker 7: So we would like to have physical PVAs, but also
Speaker 7: virtual PPA is also CFD, also unbundled bundled RECs and
Speaker 7: behind the meter not metering off site, on site, you.
Speaker 3: Know, everything that is possible.
Speaker 7: And also I'm not I'm not just saying this for Google,
Speaker 7: but because you know, even tech companies among them have
Speaker 7: and even they are similar companies headquartered in the in
Speaker 7: the same country, right, but we have even among the
Speaker 7: tech companies different procurement rationale. We do what we do
Speaker 7: for different reasons in different ways. And so imagine if
Speaker 7: you take companies that are in sectors that.
Speaker 3: Are very far away.
Speaker 7: So how can one procurement methodology or avenue fulfill the
Speaker 7: needs of companies that are so different in their strategic
Speaker 7: approach to carbon free energy procurement. So yeah, as many
Speaker 7: options as possible.
Speaker 2: So horses for courses, but you also want to be
Speaker 2: greedy and have everything available to pick from. Okay, I
Speaker 2: want to come back to something that was mentioned a
Speaker 2: couple of speakers, which was pumped hydro storage. Now, again,
Speaker 2: this is a technology where India has taken a different
Speaker 2: path to many countries.
Speaker 6: It is it seems to be.
Speaker 2: One long duration energy storage option which a lot of
Speaker 2: government entities and private players are looking at very seriously.
Speaker 2: So I want to ask Amiji this question. Now, Adani
Speaker 2: Green is working on these projects in multiple states at
Speaker 2: different stages. What are the one or two major challenges
Speaker 2: that you're encountering and then how are you moving ahead
Speaker 2: with your development plans?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think Look, I think India is very well blessed
Speaker 4: with these kind of structures where we have a bit
Speaker 4: of a head and water bodies where which we can
Speaker 4: use for you know, pump storage where we can recycle
Speaker 4: water day and night. And I think if you look
Speaker 4: at some other countries like US where more than ninety
Speaker 4: percent of storage has been conventionally through pump storage, and
Speaker 4: I think in India we have a great opportunity to
Speaker 4: do that as we progress towards the renewable future. And
Speaker 4: you know, we've kind of selected those structures. We have
Speaker 4: looked at d risking their geotechnical and understanding the geology
Speaker 4: and everything else. But I think what we have also
Speaker 4: found that some of the policies framework which are applied
Speaker 4: to pump storage project is similar to what was for
Speaker 4: hydro project and that needs to be seriously looked at.
Speaker 4: I think there is a in the budget, there is
Speaker 4: a new mention about this and we believe that it
Speaker 4: will help cut the cost time needed to develop these
Speaker 4: you know, initial conformance reports dprs from eighteen months too
Speaker 4: much lower, so these things can be accelerated and I
Speaker 4: believe Secondly, I think what we talked about in renewable
Speaker 4: applies here as well. Combination of supply chain and financing
Speaker 4: will have to be looked at. We believe very strongly
Speaker 4: that pump storage will will bring a lot more reliable
Speaker 4: way of storage. Although it competes very nicely with small
Speaker 4: scale battery systems as well, but if you look at
Speaker 4: the life of a palm storage projects, it's excess of
Speaker 4: a certain five one hundred years. Palm storage projects also
Speaker 4: bring inertia into the system compared to what a battery
Speaker 4: will do. And so I think we also will look
Speaker 4: at battery systems, but palm storage will be our go
Speaker 4: to approach for at scale storage solutions, and mostly in
Speaker 4: Central India. I think quite a few states have that
Speaker 4: structure available which we can benefit from.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I want to come back to Gurdig just
Speaker 2: carrying on one of the themes earlier in terms of
Speaker 2: corporate clean power procurement.
Speaker 3: Now many.
Speaker 2: Trends suggest that corporates purchasing clean energy is likely to
Speaker 2: be one very big growth segment for carbon free clean
Speaker 2: power in India. Does NTPLC plan to target this segment?
Speaker 2: What sort of strategy would NTPC have for corporate corporate
Speaker 2: buyers of clean power?
Speaker 6: Yeah, if you're if you just follow us.
Speaker 5: We have been working on this area also for quite
Speaker 5: some time and we have the joint ventures which.
Speaker 6: We have already gene started working on like with.
Speaker 5: Ioc L, with the HPC, SPCL and metal energies. There
Speaker 5: are many more Gina kinds of this which are bulk
Speaker 5: consumer in fact, not only the smaller consumers, but the
Speaker 5: bull consumers, and we are quite open to have let's say,
Speaker 5: the joint ventures with them or otherwise we are more
Speaker 5: than happy to commit to supply them the powers for
Speaker 5: their requirement. We have much larger portfolio. It's not only
Speaker 5: the solar and wind, but it's all some portion of
Speaker 5: the hydro and then the storage solution what we are
Speaker 5: talking about. So this is the one segment which will
Speaker 5: work for some time, I believe, and there will be
Speaker 5: there will be first more advantage for some of the
Speaker 5: industries and we are here to support.
Speaker 6: In many ways.
Speaker 5: Managing the grid is going to become quite a challenge.
Speaker 5: As we are we are adding more and more unpredictable
Speaker 5: or the kind of train is this we generate when
Speaker 5: we want that kind of power?
Speaker 6: I think this is aldgene.
Speaker 5: We are at that point of time that at times
Speaker 5: our cold base assets which are taking the total burden
Speaker 5: as of now of flexing, and I think there will
Speaker 5: be limit when these assets will not be able to
Speaker 5: support the grid.
Speaker 6: So there will be time when this renewable energy.
Speaker 5: Will have to be scheduled, so f d R is
Speaker 5: one thing from disposable r E. But I think that
Speaker 5: power is yet to come to the great I think
Speaker 5: that's that's the one one more challenge which is going
Speaker 5: to emmerse. So all in all, what we are working
Speaker 5: is that the total spectrum was as you would have noticed,
Speaker 5: and I think you your your question itself about the
Speaker 5: nuclear So we are in the old form of the
Speaker 5: power generation and we.
Speaker 6: Are working that.
Speaker 5: As for the requirement of the consumer, how we can
Speaker 5: we can provide the energy requirements, as for their schedule,
Speaker 5: as for their requirement wherever they want. And there may
Speaker 5: be a point I think this is This is another
Speaker 5: important and the frond from Google here. I think this
Speaker 5: is going to be that for the hydrogen. I think
Speaker 5: the Western world is trying to put some conditions where
Speaker 5: they are saying that it should be within the pure
Speaker 5: the renewable energy and it should not be mixing up
Speaker 5: with the other kind of energies. Those kinds of complexities,
Speaker 5: some will come automatically and some will be I think
Speaker 5: introduced by some players. So we have to start then
Speaker 5: working then well in advance, how we are going to
Speaker 5: plan and how we are going to emergeze that.
Speaker 6: But let me assure you this house here that if there.
Speaker 5: Is any industry which requires whether it is totally green,
Speaker 5: which is totally carbon free or low carbon energy, I
Speaker 5: think we can work out those solutions, and maybe I
Speaker 5: think graded manner that can.
Speaker 6: Also be also be worked out on those.
Speaker 5: So it's going to be a quiet, an interesting and
Speaker 5: challenging future ahead for all of us.
Speaker 2: You mentioned scheduling of renewables, and we had just heard
Speaker 2: amid you talk about the importance and the role of
Speaker 2: weather forecasting and improving That sort of goes hand in hand.
Speaker 2: When you have one, you can really work better on
Speaker 2: the other one.
Speaker 6: Now the question is I think there is another one.
Speaker 5: Maybe there will be some time when the renewable energy may.
Speaker 6: Have to be curtailed.
Speaker 5: Yes, for the security of the grid, so we have
Speaker 5: we have to keep that in mind. Yeah, we cannot
Speaker 5: just make any kind of this is whenever you want
Speaker 5: you can come in and whenever you want you can
Speaker 5: go out. I think this is so that may be
Speaker 5: then requiring some kind of course for these storage purposes.
Speaker 6: But that's also.
Speaker 5: I think this is going to become an interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 6: It's going forward.
Speaker 4: That's exactly where, precisely where I think large scale storage
Speaker 4: is skill storage, and the grid support system has to
Speaker 4: become more resilient. I think a lot more focus needs
Speaker 4: to go towards storage, I think, and that will be
Speaker 4: the only solution we can think of.
Speaker 3: And talking back on.
Speaker 4: Weather, I think I think we need to do a
Speaker 4: better job in understanding weather.
Speaker 3: We have a big country.
Speaker 4: If you look at from east to west, you benefit
Speaker 4: from one plus hour verse of solar radiation if you
Speaker 4: have a plant which talks to each other. So I
Speaker 4: think we are yet to take advantage of that. Then
Speaker 4: renowble life feel and I know I talk on behalf.
Speaker 4: Everybody in the room has a long way to go,
Speaker 4: I think, and it's a big upside ahead of us.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening now. This was recorded live, so keep
Speaker 1: an eye out for more recordings from future summits, the
Speaker 1: next one being our BNF Summit London, which will take
Speaker 1: place on the eighth and ninth of October. Today's episode
Speaker 1: of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray with production
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