1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: the B and EF podcast, and today we bring you 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: a recording from our BNIF Summit, New Delhi, which took 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: place on the fifth of September. Our summits take place 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: in locations around the world and highlight the most pressing 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: issues in the energy transition for that region. In India, 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: the most populous country in the world, we focus on 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: how a global transition to a lower carbon world is 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: having an impact on the future of energy, transport and 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: finance in that country. The panel featured on today's show 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: is titled Scaling up Clean Power to meet India's growing 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: energy demand. Now, given India needs to quadruple the amount 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: of installations of wind and solar capacity in order to 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: meet its twenty thirty target, what are the steps that 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: must be taken to make this possible well. The panelists 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: today explore the challenges and opportunities for power sector decarbonization, 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: highlighting the role technology will play, including renewables and the 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: important role of grids, but also highlighting nuclear and energy storage, 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: along with the impact of AI as a source of 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: energy demand. Panelists include Giorgio Fortunato, head of Clean Energy 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: and Power for Asia Pacific at Google, Kavitia Saha, Managing 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Director and Head of Infrastructure and Sustainable Energies for India 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: at CPP Investments, Amit Singh, chief Executive Officer of A 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: Donnie Green Energy, and Gurdip Singh, Chairman and Managing Director 25 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: at NTPC Limited. This panel was moderated by bn EF 26 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: India specialist Rohit Gadre. For more information regarding BNF summits 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: and to view recordings from this event, including BNF talks 28 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: that were delivered by our analysts, there head to about 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: dot BNF dot Com forward slash Summit forward slash New Delhi. 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: Right now, let's hear from the panel brought to you 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: from BNF Summit, New Delhi. 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: And guess now firmly back on the growth track after 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: a few blips that we saw in the last few years. 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: In fact, this year, BNF forecasts that India will add 35 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: more wind and solar than it has ever done before. 36 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: Now our growing power demand has reaffirmed the importance of 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: energy security, but low carbon transition remains front and center 38 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 2: of policymaking. To discuss the scaling up of clean power 39 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: in the country, we have a very stellar panel with 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: us here today, let's start this discussion. I want to 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: start with Amidji from Adani Green. What is your views 42 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: the project developer? What is the sort of key hurdle 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: to really scaling up renewables? 44 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: How do you de risk execution? 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 4: I think I'll phrase my answer a little differently. I 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 4: think if you were to ask a question, what do 47 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 4: we need to do to move fast to accelerate the 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 4: deployment of renewable I'll start from the bottom of that list. 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 4: I think we all are aware of the challenges of 50 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 4: grid connectivity, evacuation. I think there is a plan in place, 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 4: but let's talk about what we can solve when we 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 4: should and we must solve to accelerate execution and two 53 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 4: things which and one thing I feel is not captured. 54 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: There is people. 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 4: There is a big gap of people with adequate vocational skills, 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 4: ability to retain them, mobilize them to some of the 57 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 4: project sites and make sure that they are able to 58 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 4: deliver a high productivity on our projects. I would pick 59 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 4: that up as a topic of focus, which something we 60 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 4: are looking at and I think the industry is also 61 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 4: focusing on. And although supply chain disruption may not look 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: like an issue. 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: But if we are looking. 64 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: To deliver returns to our shareholders, if you're looking to 65 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 4: do projects at scale, these supply chain disruptions, test our 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 4: to execute, test our limit to move fast. We are 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 4: looking to domestically source these goods. And you know, I 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 4: think it's very well known in the industry that we 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 4: still don't have a very resilient supply chain. I think 70 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 4: the way time of inverters the transformers is very high, 71 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 4: and I think there's a huge opportunity to fix that, 72 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 4: to make investments in that space and make sure that 73 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 4: we can solve for it. So those are two things 74 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 4: I would really talk about and maybe you know, expand 75 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 4: on further as we go. 76 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: Perfect you mentioned return to shareholders. That's something I'll come 77 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: back to because it's a topic that's that deserves much 78 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: more attention. How do we get these IRRs out? But 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: before that, good dig question to you. You know NTPC 80 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: has a twenty thirty two renewable target, but obviously it 81 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: will play a very important role in any Government of 82 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: India plan to scale up the cold fleet to meet 83 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: our energy demand. So how do you see ntpc's sort 84 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: of capacity mix and technology mikes changing out because of 85 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: these factors. 86 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 5: Let's try to understand that we are the largest power 87 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 5: producer in the country and we remain kind of the 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 5: backbone I think the energy NTPC and power grid. If 89 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 5: you're just taking and we are not here only merely 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 5: for the profit motive, I think this is important to 91 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 5: be noted and I think for the consumer, it is 92 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 5: important that consumer gets the uninterrupted, reliable power supply. 93 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 6: Which is affordable and the transition is inevitable. 94 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 5: But at this point of time and the short frum, 95 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 5: medium trum long term, what can be the energy mix 96 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 5: which will ensure that there is no interruption and we 97 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 5: are able to supply. 98 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 6: So we can all these things into mind when we 99 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 6: are going AHT. 100 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 5: So the call base capacity which we are still adding 101 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 5: and there are some other private developers are also adding 102 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 5: because that's a necessity at this point of time, because 103 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 5: we are the fastest mowing economy and our energy needs are. 104 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 6: Also intendem and increasing day by day. 105 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 5: So it's important that everybody is having the clean source 106 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 5: of energy. And as you know that we had connected 107 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 5: each and every household in the country twenty eighteen nineteen, 108 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 5: and we have seen the surge in the demand in 109 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 5: the past few years, so there is a space for everything. 110 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 5: But I think this is this provides this space for 111 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 5: all sorts of energy. Our focus has been mainly in 112 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 5: the lasts four or five years back that we will 113 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 5: be putting more and more renewable energy, which remains intact. 114 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 6: So we have declared that. 115 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 5: We will be reaching to almost sixty giga or by 116 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 5: twenty thirty two. And I'm just again reliterating here that 117 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 5: our work is perfectly online as per ower target. In 118 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 5: addition to that, we are adding some coal capacity, which 119 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 5: is also important, and by that time we should be 120 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 5: lending somewhere like sixty forty kind of thing by twenty 121 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 5: twenty thirty two. So I think this is what at 122 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 5: present ganet. 123 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 6: It's the overall scenarios. 124 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. 125 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: I'll go to Google next. And we've talked about growth 126 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: in power demand. Now tech companies have also reported very 127 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: strong uptick in their own power consumption because of data centers, 128 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: because of AI, because of various other reasons. Now, how 129 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: does this affect the global goal to have twenty four 130 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: by seven hourly clean matching of clean power? 131 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think we need to recognize that the 132 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 7: energy transition is an inflection point at the moment. So 133 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 7: we see this growing demand and this demand is becoming 134 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 7: steeper and steeper, and this of course is a challenge 135 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 7: for our systems. 136 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: To put things into perspective. 137 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 7: So data centers, industry wide electricity consumption is today estimated 138 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 7: to be around one percent of the global electricity demand. 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: And where is dress coming from? 140 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 7: Well, of course, as we continue to electrify and digitize 141 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 7: our systems so heating, transportation, industrial processes, manufacturing, and therefore 142 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 7: the electricity grids. 143 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: Need to adapt to this new wave of demand. 144 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 7: And this is investments in a generation, investments in transmission, 145 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 7: and not only the hardware side of things, but also 146 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 7: the software side of things. 147 00:08:59,120 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 3: So how do we make our. 148 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 7: Twist these systems more efficient and more effective? Now, the 149 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 7: key question is, as this demand is growing, are we 150 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 7: gaining enough on energy efficiency? So can we somehow balance 151 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 7: these growth? Can we offset some of this? And the 152 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 7: second big question is also as the demand is growing, 153 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 7: is clean energy capacity growing at the same pace, Because 154 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 7: in order for us to be successful, the clean energy 155 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 7: capacity need to grow at least at the same speed. 156 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 7: And so let me give you a couple of examples 157 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 7: of how we are working with these two aspects. 158 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: Of energy efficiency and clean energy. So an energy efficiency. 159 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 7: Compared to three years ago, a Google data center is 160 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 7: five times as efficient as it used to be. So 161 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 7: we work on this both on the IT side of things. 162 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 7: So our newest TPU Trillium six gener TPU is sixty 163 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 7: seven percent more efficient than its previous generation. And when 164 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 7: you look at the non IT load, when you look 165 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 7: at the efficiency of the data centers, a typical Google 166 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 7: data center is one point eight times more efficient than 167 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 7: an enterprise data center on average. 168 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of work that we're. 169 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 7: Doing on the energy efficiency side of things. That is 170 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 7: an area of very deep focus for Google on the 171 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 7: clean energy. So as you mentioned twenty four seven carbon 172 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 7: free energy, so we aim to operate on twenty four 173 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 7: seven carbon free energy. That means procuring carbon free energy 174 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 7: every hour of the day in every grid where we 175 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 7: operate globally, right. 176 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 3: And so. 177 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 7: In Asia Pacific, we have signed power purchase agreements in 178 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 7: new markets in the last twelve months Australia, Japan, Singapore, 179 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 7: and we continuously actively procure carbon free energy in all 180 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 7: the markets where we operate where we have data centers 181 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 7: or where we have cloud presence, and globally this has 182 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 7: been a record year as well because it's a four 183 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 7: gigabat of carbon free energy power purchase agreements and this 184 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 7: is more than every year. 185 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: Before for Google. 186 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 7: So you know, keeping that clean energy capacity curve as 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 7: deep as possible as the demand is also growing and 188 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 7: becoming steeper. 189 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: Very good, Thank you. I'll go next to Kaveta And 190 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: one of the problems that I think doesn't get spoken 191 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: about quite as much is the fact that renewable projects 192 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: in India, many of them tend to underperform. They don't 193 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: generate as much energy as was initially thought of. Now, 194 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: as an investor, how big of a problem do you 195 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: think this is? And then what can be done to 196 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: really achieve the returns for shareholders? 197 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for that, r Hit. 198 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 8: So if I actually take a step back of is 199 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 8: it that your underwriting has enough cushion built into it 200 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 8: to be able to handle the on the ground operational 201 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 8: nuances right? Very frequently, what you have found is that 202 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 8: there may be one aspect which is underperforming. Maybe you know, 203 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 8: the number of units which are generated than what is expected. 204 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 8: On the other hand, your cost of delivery of project 205 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 8: or speed of delivery of project has surprised you on 206 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 8: the positive. So on overall basis, you know, you're still 207 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 8: able to come within the range of returns that you 208 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 8: would have underwritten, but maybe from a different mix of sources. 209 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 8: But I think the one thing, and again, if I 210 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 8: look at it between solar and wind, I think solar 211 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 8: has been overall a positive experience because the range of 212 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 8: variability of what the project delivers is not so much 213 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 8: and they have definitely been pockets of time when the 214 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 8: cap cost has surprised you to the post, and so 215 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 8: overall you have ended up getting good returns from projects. Wind, 216 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 8: on the other hand, has been a mixed back and 217 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 8: specifically over the last few years where you are seeing 218 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 8: you know, the reversion to the long term mean not 219 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 8: really happening. So from that perspective, the lost generation on 220 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 8: wind projects is more difficult to underwrite. And I would say, 221 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 8: you know, from the point of view of an investor, 222 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 8: underwriting is a constant learning curve, right, you have to 223 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 8: keep adjusting your model to what you are learning on 224 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 8: the ground and some of the factors that are driving. Therefore, 225 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 8: the underwriting is how the wind performance has been. You know, 226 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 8: do you think the P seventy five or the P 227 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 8: fifty or P ninety is really the true one? Is 228 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 8: this impacted by micro sighting? And how are you looking at, 229 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 8: you know, the mix of solar and wind projects in 230 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 8: the sense that are you moving away from or are 231 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 8: you looking at a less proportion of standalone wind projects. 232 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 8: I think some of those which keep getting questioned on 233 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 8: an ongoing basis and we keep you know, driving our 234 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 8: own diseases. 235 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: That way, we will come back to that topic of 236 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 2: you know, wind solar hybrids and sort of combining technologies. 237 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: But before that, on this question of technology, I want 238 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: to go back to goodeg. You know, there is a 239 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: renewed focus on the nuclear power sector in India and 240 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 2: the Finance Minister also very clearly alluded to that in 241 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: her budget speech. 242 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: So what is the. 243 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: Role that ntpiece could play in the nuclear sector in India? 244 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 6: Now, good thank you for that question. 245 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 5: I think I thought, okay, mostly gene people will be 246 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 5: only solar and when and these days may be on 247 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 5: the storage, but I think the nuclear is going to 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 5: be a very important part. And I think for the 249 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 5: last two years we had been working on this area 250 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 5: and now we have a joint venture with NPCIL and 251 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 5: in next month or so we will start finding it 252 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 5: and it's news that we will we start work on 253 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 5: our first nuclear power plant which is going to be 254 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 5: four into seven hundred megavat. 255 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 6: This is in the joint venture as it is just mentioned. 256 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 5: And going forward, we are looking ahead for the SMR 257 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 5: and the MMR and also we are looking at the 258 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 5: large size nuclear power plants across the country. We are 259 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 5: in dialogue with at least four to five states to 260 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 5: have the suitable site for that. Going forward, I think 261 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 5: the nuclear will become quite important from the base load 262 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 5: point of view unless there is a completely breakthrough in 263 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 5: something the storage solution, which is going to be much 264 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 5: much more cheaper and tibal there is something new technology 265 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 5: which really emerges. 266 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 6: But otherwise, also I. 267 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 5: Think the nuclear seems to be taking the CTU and 268 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 5: which will be able to provide the twenty four y 269 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 5: seven carbon free genetic energy source. And let's include here 270 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 5: that also that the hydrogen which is much talked about 271 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 5: subject as of today and it's the fuel for future 272 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 5: nuclear is going to play very important role in that also. 273 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 6: So we are quite focused on this so nuclear. 274 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 5: Large size or the SMRs going forward and carbon capture 275 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 5: and utilization are going to become the integral part of 276 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 5: the energy security to provide the energy needs pervent perfect. 277 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 6: Thank you, sir. 278 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: India has taken somewhat of a UNI path in its 279 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 2: auctions of renewables, both in terms of volume but also 280 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: now in terms of the innovation of first doing wind 281 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: solar hybrids and now there are various types of complex projects, 282 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: different combinations of wind solar storage with different supply terms 283 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: to improve the generation profile of renewables, to get renewables 284 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 2: closer to what eventually is needed. My question will be 285 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 2: to omit you on this one. Now, a Dani Green 286 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: has been the first mover in wind solar hybrids. There 287 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: are a number of projects that are already commissioned, but 288 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 2: so far we haven't seen the company do round the 289 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: clock or FDI projects. So what is your outlook on 290 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: the future of these complex projects in India and what 291 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: is Adani Green's strategy in this space. 292 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think if I step back, I think 293 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 4: our approach is very simple. I think we want to 294 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 4: be the low cost generator in the country by default, 295 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 4: and we don't look at low cost only at our 296 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 4: side of generation, but also we take into account a 297 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 4: system as well in which we are injecting, because that's 298 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 4: where the value gets created and I think our customers 299 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 4: are asking for it as well, So keeping that in mind, 300 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 4: I think it's important that we look at hybrid projects 301 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 4: which are co located, and we've done those projects successfully 302 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 4: as you allude it to, and we continue to focus 303 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 4: to develop project sites where we can combine both solar 304 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 4: and wind, and I think that partially addresses the topic 305 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 4: of investment as well, because it is true that I 306 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 4: think the wind has not performed close to the long 307 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 4: term averages over the last few years. 308 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 6: But it's also true. 309 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 4: That our understanding of weather is not as good as 310 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 4: it needs to be. We are far far behind where 311 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: the industry needs to be where we are, and that's 312 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 4: something which we are taking very seriously to both understand 313 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 4: short term and long term weather patterns and make sure 314 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 4: that our investment case is is kind of de risked 315 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 4: by a good understanding of weather, and keeping that in mind, 316 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 4: our approach is very simple, focus on co located hybrid 317 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 4: projects and look at large scale palm storage projects also 318 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 4: to deliver a high CUF and high RTC projects. 319 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 6: So we're also. 320 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: Developed developing and. 321 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 4: We plan to have five plus gigawadscale palm storage project. 322 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 2: We'll come back, We'll come back to palm storage. 323 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, sir, so, I think that's our approach and we 324 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 4: feel that we'll kind of secure our you know, brid 325 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 4: as well. 326 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: If I can just follow up a little bit on this, 327 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: you mentioned that our understanding of the weather over different 328 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 2: time scales is not as good as it should be. 329 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 2: Is there something specific you can tell us on how 330 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: this sort of risk is being mitigated by the industry. 331 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. 332 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 4: Look, I think if you look at the density of 333 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: weather stations we have and the frequency at which we 334 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: measure these weather patterns in our country, especially project sites, 335 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 4: noway close to what we need for doing a very 336 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 4: high quality macrostrating as a as A as a company, 337 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 4: as as A as as Adani. We are proactively investing 338 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 4: in putting you know, very sophisticated weather monitoring stations and 339 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 4: tools ahead of projects, especially for wind and but I 340 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 4: can tell you that when it comes to whether modeling 341 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 4: and forecasting, the sector needs. 342 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 3: To work together. 343 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 4: We need to work together with the metro agencies in 344 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 4: India and outside and make sure that we have a 345 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: much more robust way of predicting gust movements, predicting wind 346 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 4: changes in short term, long term, for grid balancing, for scheduling, 347 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 4: and that's something which we are taking up as well 348 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 4: with the authorities in India. But I would invite everybody 349 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: to kind of participate in that. 350 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: So we need more data, but we also need all 351 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 2: the stakeholders to work to ironically, got it. I'll continue 352 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: with this topic of sort of hybrid and complex projects. 353 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: These are sort of a very new development in the 354 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: market or just the last few years. And now these 355 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: projects combine technologies. They're often oversized projects. So how do 356 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: investors assess the case for these projects? 357 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 3: What? What? 358 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: What are the things that you would look at if 359 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: this project came to you, Yeah, I think it. 360 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: So. 361 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 8: First of all, it starts with what kind of project 362 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 8: is it? 363 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 5: Right? 364 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 6: Is it a hybrid project? 365 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 3: It is it? 366 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 6: Is it RTC? Is it peak power load? 367 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 8: Following, you know, you have various parameters of project which 368 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 8: then determine, you know, what is the solution that you 369 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 8: are looking at, whether it's a combination of wind, solar, 370 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 8: solar plus battery pumped hydro which is currently in short supply. 371 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 8: But you know, so it's uh, it's a question of 372 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 8: what combination of technology solutions would enable you to deliver 373 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 8: that power. And the again, one of the other parameters 374 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 8: is that how is that stable power being measured? Is 375 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 8: it time of the day, is it monthly? Is it 376 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 8: on an annual average? So all of this goes into 377 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 8: the designing itself. The second part of that is uh 378 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 8: is of course you know the understanding the amount of 379 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 8: execution which is going to be required right again, as 380 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 8: I mentioned earlier, and this is going to be a 381 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 8: common theme that it is a constant learning process. Today 382 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 8: you don't have enough learning from that to kind of 383 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 8: drive a more you know, confident underwriting. One of the 384 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 8: ways you look at it is of course in terms 385 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 8: of pricing the risk to the return expectations from these projects. 386 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 6: Now. 387 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 8: Fortunately, because this is still evolving, I think the competitive 388 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 8: intensity in complex projects today is low, which enables you 389 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 8: to look at pricing this in a sensible manner. But 390 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 8: I think as the market understanding evolves, you know, your 391 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 8: underwriting models will become better and then the pricing will 392 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 8: also become fitter. But today I think it is more 393 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 8: a question of trying to figure out how much is 394 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 8: the risk, What is the return that I should expect 395 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 8: to compensate for the risk. 396 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 2: So it is a learning process for everyone, but there 397 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: are some fundamentals that you would still look at. 398 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, Georgio. 399 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 2: Just continuing along these lines, you know, to get to 400 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 2: twenty four by seven. There are many different sort of 401 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: routes or options available. 402 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 6: You have on. 403 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: Site projects, off site PPAs. There are various states which 404 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: have utility green tariffs. There is a wreck market or 405 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 2: green certificate market in India. Now in the India context, 406 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: how do you view all the different options? How do 407 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 2: you prioritize and choose? 408 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 5: Yeah? 409 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 7: Sure, so there are so many different options. The one 410 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 7: criteria is impact, of course, So to make sure that 411 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 7: you know what we do is is it adding incremental 412 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 7: clean energy into the grid first of all? 413 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: And also you know, is it contributing to a systemic change? 414 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 7: Because there is no better way to run data centers 415 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 7: on twenty four seven can of free energy? But what 416 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 7: good does it make if it just ticks a box 417 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 7: and it doesn't it doesn't result in a systemic shift? Right, 418 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 7: So this is what we're trying to do collectively at 419 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 7: Google and with many partners. We work with so on 420 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 7: the different procurement options. So one thing that always comes 421 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 7: up is like the these unbundled REGs, unbandled ecs. So 422 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 7: just let me let me untack this for a mino 423 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 7: to share, you know, how we think about it. So 424 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 7: unbundling means for the developer taking a risk, right because 425 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 7: they're going to sell the electricity into the market, and 426 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 7: they're going to sell the unbandled rex ubandled eecs to 427 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 7: either a separate market or a corporate of taker. So 428 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 7: there is a very big difference between procuring these unbundled 429 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 7: eecs from markets where they are very cheap or from 430 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 7: all the projects, while on the other hand, committing to 431 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 7: a long term procurement of unbandled eecs that is fundamental 432 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 7: for the developer to actually face those risks and bring 433 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 7: the project to financing. So you see, even one one solution, 434 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 7: one procurement avenue, it can have very different the very 435 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 7: different value or very different you know impact according to 436 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 7: how you actually interpret or utilize the procurement avenue. And 437 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 7: so along those lines, you know on twenty four to 438 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 7: seven CFE is there's a lot of local procurement aspects 439 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 7: so when we look at the region, for example, I 440 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 7: look after the Zapak. You know, we've done things in Japan, 441 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 7: for example, we have done projects that are very very 442 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 7: small solar power plants fifty two hundred kiloba aggregated provide 443 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 7: forty megaba to support the operations of our data center 444 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 7: in Inzai. 445 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 3: And so why did you do that? 446 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 7: Well, because the land is not available, right, We've talked 447 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 7: about land constraints and permitting. 448 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: So solving for local. 449 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 7: Issues in specific markets is really the challenge that we 450 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 7: need to face at the moment. I'll give you another 451 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 7: example from Taiwan. We have recently announced capital investment in 452 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 7: partnership with black Rock and here, well, there is not 453 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 7: enough generation of carbon free energy, right, so we come 454 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 7: in with a capital investment to actually support the development 455 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 7: of one gigabat pipeline of solar. And the beauty of 456 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 7: this particular transaction is also that Taiwan is home to 457 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 7: one of our data centers, but it's also home to 458 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 7: many of our suppliers. So Google has set targets for 459 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 7: twenty four seven carbon free energy. You know, in every 460 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 7: greed where we operate for our own data centers and 461 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 7: operations but also we have an at zero goal, so 462 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 7: we are actively helping and supporting our suppliers to de 463 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 7: carbonize their own operations. And so this deal is particularly 464 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 7: interesting because it captures both. You know, we will have 465 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 7: the opportunity to offer some of this capacity to our suppliers. 466 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 7: So you know, I think there are many different procurement avenues. 467 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 7: Is how we utilize them and how do we make impact? 468 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 7: And the last point specifically you ask on India is 469 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 7: some of these procurement avenues are already available. 470 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 3: But for us, really. 471 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 7: What works well is when we have multiple procurement avenues available. 472 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 7: So we would like to have physical PVAs, but also 473 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 7: virtual PPA is also CFD, also unbundled bundled RECs and 474 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 7: behind the meter not metering off site, on site, you. 475 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 3: Know, everything that is possible. 476 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 7: And also I'm not I'm not just saying this for Google, 477 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 7: but because you know, even tech companies among them have 478 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 7: and even they are similar companies headquartered in the in 479 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 7: the same country, right, but we have even among the 480 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 7: tech companies different procurement rationale. We do what we do 481 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 7: for different reasons in different ways. And so imagine if 482 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 7: you take companies that are in sectors that. 483 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 3: Are very far away. 484 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 7: So how can one procurement methodology or avenue fulfill the 485 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 7: needs of companies that are so different in their strategic 486 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 7: approach to carbon free energy procurement. So yeah, as many 487 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 7: options as possible. 488 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: So horses for courses, but you also want to be 489 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: greedy and have everything available to pick from. Okay, I 490 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 2: want to come back to something that was mentioned a 491 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: couple of speakers, which was pumped hydro storage. Now, again, 492 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: this is a technology where India has taken a different 493 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: path to many countries. 494 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 6: It is it seems to be. 495 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 2: One long duration energy storage option which a lot of 496 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 2: government entities and private players are looking at very seriously. 497 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: So I want to ask Amiji this question. Now, Adani 498 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: Green is working on these projects in multiple states at 499 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: different stages. What are the one or two major challenges 500 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: that you're encountering and then how are you moving ahead 501 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: with your development plans? 502 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 503 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: I think Look, I think India is very well blessed 504 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 4: with these kind of structures where we have a bit 505 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 4: of a head and water bodies where which we can 506 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 4: use for you know, pump storage where we can recycle 507 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 4: water day and night. And I think if you look 508 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 4: at some other countries like US where more than ninety 509 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 4: percent of storage has been conventionally through pump storage, and 510 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 4: I think in India we have a great opportunity to 511 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 4: do that as we progress towards the renewable future. And 512 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 4: you know, we've kind of selected those structures. We have 513 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 4: looked at d risking their geotechnical and understanding the geology 514 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 4: and everything else. But I think what we have also 515 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 4: found that some of the policies framework which are applied 516 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 4: to pump storage project is similar to what was for 517 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 4: hydro project and that needs to be seriously looked at. 518 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 4: I think there is a in the budget, there is 519 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 4: a new mention about this and we believe that it 520 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 4: will help cut the cost time needed to develop these 521 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 4: you know, initial conformance reports dprs from eighteen months too 522 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 4: much lower, so these things can be accelerated and I 523 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 4: believe Secondly, I think what we talked about in renewable 524 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 4: applies here as well. Combination of supply chain and financing 525 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 4: will have to be looked at. We believe very strongly 526 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 4: that pump storage will will bring a lot more reliable 527 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 4: way of storage. Although it competes very nicely with small 528 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,239 Speaker 4: scale battery systems as well, but if you look at 529 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 4: the life of a palm storage projects, it's excess of 530 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 4: a certain five one hundred years. Palm storage projects also 531 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 4: bring inertia into the system compared to what a battery 532 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 4: will do. And so I think we also will look 533 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 4: at battery systems, but palm storage will be our go 534 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 4: to approach for at scale storage solutions, and mostly in 535 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 4: Central India. I think quite a few states have that 536 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 4: structure available which we can benefit from. 537 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: Thank you. I want to come back to Gurdig just 538 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 2: carrying on one of the themes earlier in terms of 539 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: corporate clean power procurement. 540 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 3: Now many. 541 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: Trends suggest that corporates purchasing clean energy is likely to 542 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: be one very big growth segment for carbon free clean 543 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: power in India. Does NTPLC plan to target this segment? 544 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: What sort of strategy would NTPC have for corporate corporate 545 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: buyers of clean power? 546 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, if you're if you just follow us. 547 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 5: We have been working on this area also for quite 548 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 5: some time and we have the joint ventures which. 549 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 6: We have already gene started working on like with. 550 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 5: Ioc L, with the HPC, SPCL and metal energies. There 551 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: are many more Gina kinds of this which are bulk 552 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 5: consumer in fact, not only the smaller consumers, but the 553 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 5: bull consumers, and we are quite open to have let's say, 554 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 5: the joint ventures with them or otherwise we are more 555 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 5: than happy to commit to supply them the powers for 556 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 5: their requirement. We have much larger portfolio. It's not only 557 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 5: the solar and wind, but it's all some portion of 558 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,719 Speaker 5: the hydro and then the storage solution what we are 559 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 5: talking about. So this is the one segment which will 560 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 5: work for some time, I believe, and there will be 561 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 5: there will be first more advantage for some of the 562 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 5: industries and we are here to support. 563 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 6: In many ways. 564 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 5: Managing the grid is going to become quite a challenge. 565 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 5: As we are we are adding more and more unpredictable 566 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 5: or the kind of train is this we generate when 567 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 5: we want that kind of power? 568 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 6: I think this is aldgene. 569 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 5: We are at that point of time that at times 570 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 5: our cold base assets which are taking the total burden 571 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 5: as of now of flexing, and I think there will 572 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 5: be limit when these assets will not be able to 573 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 5: support the grid. 574 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 6: So there will be time when this renewable energy. 575 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 5: Will have to be scheduled, so f d R is 576 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 5: one thing from disposable r E. But I think that 577 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 5: power is yet to come to the great I think 578 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 5: that's that's the one one more challenge which is going 579 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 5: to emmerse. So all in all, what we are working 580 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 5: is that the total spectrum was as you would have noticed, 581 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 5: and I think you your your question itself about the 582 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 5: nuclear So we are in the old form of the 583 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 5: power generation and we. 584 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 6: Are working that. 585 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 5: As for the requirement of the consumer, how we can 586 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 5: we can provide the energy requirements, as for their schedule, 587 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 5: as for their requirement wherever they want. And there may 588 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 5: be a point I think this is This is another 589 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 5: important and the frond from Google here. I think this 590 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 5: is going to be that for the hydrogen. I think 591 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 5: the Western world is trying to put some conditions where 592 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 5: they are saying that it should be within the pure 593 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 5: the renewable energy and it should not be mixing up 594 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 5: with the other kind of energies. Those kinds of complexities, 595 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 5: some will come automatically and some will be I think 596 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 5: introduced by some players. So we have to start then 597 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 5: working then well in advance, how we are going to 598 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 5: plan and how we are going to emergeze that. 599 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,439 Speaker 6: But let me assure you this house here that if there. 600 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 5: Is any industry which requires whether it is totally green, 601 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 5: which is totally carbon free or low carbon energy, I 602 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 5: think we can work out those solutions, and maybe I 603 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 5: think graded manner that can. 604 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 6: Also be also be worked out on those. 605 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 5: So it's going to be a quiet, an interesting and 606 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 5: challenging future ahead for all of us. 607 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 2: You mentioned scheduling of renewables, and we had just heard 608 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: amid you talk about the importance and the role of 609 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: weather forecasting and improving That sort of goes hand in hand. 610 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: When you have one, you can really work better on 611 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: the other one. 612 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 6: Now the question is I think there is another one. 613 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 5: Maybe there will be some time when the renewable energy may. 614 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 6: Have to be curtailed. 615 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 5: Yes, for the security of the grid, so we have 616 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 5: we have to keep that in mind. Yeah, we cannot 617 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 5: just make any kind of this is whenever you want 618 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 5: you can come in and whenever you want you can 619 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 5: go out. I think this is so that may be 620 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 5: then requiring some kind of course for these storage purposes. 621 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 6: But that's also. 622 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 5: I think this is going to become an interesting phenomenon. 623 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 6: It's going forward. 624 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 4: That's exactly where, precisely where I think large scale storage 625 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 4: is skill storage, and the grid support system has to 626 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 4: become more resilient. I think a lot more focus needs 627 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 4: to go towards storage, I think, and that will be 628 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 4: the only solution we can think of. 629 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 3: And talking back on. 630 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 4: Weather, I think I think we need to do a 631 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: better job in understanding weather. 632 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 3: We have a big country. 633 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 4: If you look at from east to west, you benefit 634 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 4: from one plus hour verse of solar radiation if you 635 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 4: have a plant which talks to each other. So I 636 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 4: think we are yet to take advantage of that. Then 637 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 4: renowble life feel and I know I talk on behalf. 638 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 4: Everybody in the room has a long way to go, 639 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 4: I think, and it's a big upside ahead of us. 640 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening now. This was recorded live, so keep 641 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: an eye out for more recordings from future summits, the 642 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: next one being our BNF Summit London, which will take 643 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 1: place on the eighth and ninth of October. Today's episode 644 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 1: of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray with production 645 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: assistants from Kamalas Shelling. Bloomberg NIF is a service provided 646 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This recording does 647 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: not constitute, nor should it be construed, as investment advice, 648 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: investment recommendations, or a recommendation as to an investment or 649 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: other strategy. Bloomberg aniff should not be considered as information 650 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: sufficient upon which to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg 651 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: Finance LP Nor any of its affiliates makes any representation 652 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the 653 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: information contained in this recording, and any liability as a 654 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: result of this recording is expressly disclaimed.