1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From House to 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, can you hear that? 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: What's It's a fate ticking sound? Sound of our fertility 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: clocks down? I wondered why I was so anxious all 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, it's because we, as females, were born 7 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: with a finite amount of eggs and at some point 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: they're going to run out. Oh lord, Yeah, we're talking 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: about fertility today. Why are we talking about fertility today? Because, uh, well, 10 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: childbirth comes up a lot in the podcast, but we 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: also talk about delaying child birth and career and all 12 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: those different things that really go into that child birth 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: and pregnancy question. And one thing, especially as as I 14 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: get older, I started to think about it more. Without 15 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: child bearing directly on my horizons, I think every now 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: and then, like, well, how long do I have? Yeah? 17 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: And I mean there's probably, you know, more than just 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: a personal reason why you feel like that. It could 19 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: have something to do with the fact that you are, 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: as a woman, bombarded by stuff in the news, books, articles, 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: studies all about how that clock is ticking. You're running 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: out of time, and by the time you hit thirty five, 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: that little timer is gonna ding and you're done for sister. 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: But at the same time, while all that's going on, 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: the fastest growing rates for child bearing are among women 26 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: who were over forty. This was recently reported by NPR 27 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: and other news outlets. So we figured it was time 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: to talk about fertility. Yeah, how long can you have 29 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: a baby? Let's start with when women are most fertile. 30 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: A lot of the information it's going to come from 31 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: the American Society for Reproductive Medicine Mayo Clinic, National Institutes 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: of Health, and Parenting Magazine. So tell me, Caroline, when 33 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: women are most likely to get pregnant sometime around finals, 34 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: when they're twenty college finals, College finals. Yeah, when you're 35 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: studying for your college finals, when you're twenty. Uh, that's 36 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: when you're most fertile, between twenty and twenty four years old, 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: and by the time you are forty, between forty and 38 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: forty five, that fertility has dropped. It's it's a strange 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: percentage range here between fifty and so from either a 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: dice roll to just don't even try right exactly? Okay? Uh? 41 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: And for an idea of what's going on in between 42 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: those forty five years of US moms have their first 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: baby in fact after thirty five. And that's notable because 44 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: thirty five is often a number tossed around as when 45 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: you really ought to start thinking about fertility. That's when 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: that clock for a lot of women and a lot 47 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: of what we hear, at least about fertility, that's when 48 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: the alarm bells start to go off. Um. But like 49 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: I said, a lot of women over forty are starting 50 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: to have kids and as a result, The Wall Street 51 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Journal reported that gynecologists are talking to patients more often 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: about fertility. Yeah, now, why why is this even an issue? 53 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: Why why are we talking about it? And a lot 54 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: of it has to do with what Kristin touched on 55 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: a second ago, which is that a lot of US 56 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: women are waiting longer to have kids, were waiting longer 57 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: to get married, We're waiting longer to have kids, whether 58 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: that's for career or travel or school. You know, all 59 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: of a sudden, there there is a lot of concern about, well, wait, 60 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: but I'm not done doing X y Z yet, climbing 61 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: the career ladder or you know, going to Thailand or 62 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: what have you um so, how long you know, how 63 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: long can I wait until I have a child? Yeah, 64 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: and we're gonna offer a fertility age breakdown just to 65 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: get a sense of how are our fertility kind of 66 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: wanes over the years. But if you start getting a 67 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: little bit anxious as we start throwing out some of 68 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: these numbers, keep in mind that there is more to 69 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: these percentages that than just uh, than just statistics. Right now, 70 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuance going on that has led 71 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: some people to say, wait a minute, do we need 72 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: to be freaking out so much about thirty five? Um So, 73 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: like we said, twenty four year old women are very fertile. 74 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: They have a twenty percent chance of getting pregnant and 75 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: half the risk of gestational diabetes as a forty year 76 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: old woman, and they also have miscarriage rates as low 77 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: as nine point five percent. So pretty much, if you 78 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: are a healthy twenty to twenty four year old woman, 79 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: this is prime baby having time because your body is 80 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: all like, hey, what's up, I can I'm super fertile 81 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: and I can bounce back from pregnancy really quickly. Yeah, Like, 82 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: this is the age where you're probably at your fittest um. 83 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: You will probably be able to have a healthy baby 84 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: most likely and be healthier yourself after the pregnancy. There 85 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: will be, like you said, a quicker bounce back time 86 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: and quicker weight drop time. But there are issues like 87 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: that as far as concern for your body what it 88 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: will do to your body, but also that concern about 89 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: delaying work or career during this period. Um. Now moving 90 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: on to a hell, let's look at a healthy thirty 91 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: year old woman. So we've moved on from the early 92 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: twenties to now you're thirty. You have a chance of 93 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: getting pregnant every month. So that means for every one 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: hundred uh women trying to get pregnant in one cycle, 95 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: twenty will and that was the same chances we saw 96 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: for the year old. Yeah, so it hasn't really declined 97 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: by the time you hit thirty, But what has changed 98 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: is that miscarriage rate, yeah, which has increased to eleven 99 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: point seven per cent. And when by the time you 100 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: hit thirty five and after that miscarriage rate does rise 101 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: to about eight percent. And interestingly, you're more likely to 102 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: have multiples in your late thirties. It's like your body's 103 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: like get them all out, I want to make a 104 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: lot you waited long enough. Um. And on the side note, 105 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: we have not done podcasts focusing on miscarriage or on 106 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: in fertility. So for people listening right now who may 107 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: have experienced both of those things, UM, we certainly need 108 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: to talk about those issues as well. UM. But moving 109 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: on now though, to a healthy forty year old, what 110 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: do things look like? Well, you got a five percent 111 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: chance because we always hear about how fertility quote unquote 112 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: no dives at thirty eight. Yeah, but also a startling 113 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: statistic is that for a healthy forty year old, of 114 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: those pregnancies and in miscarriage. Why is that Because at 115 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: that point you have issues of a regular ovulation, possibly endometriosis, 116 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: you could face chromosome or abnormalities, but also issues like 117 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: your uterine lining may not be thick enough, or the 118 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: blood supply to the uterus maybe insufficient. You also have 119 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: an increased risk at that age of placenta previa and 120 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: placental abruption, which we have talked about before in the podcast. Now. 121 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: Scientists have long puzzled over what exactly is going on 122 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: on a DNA level, and the National Institutes of Health 123 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: in May publish a new theory about this and the 124 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 1: new theory maintains that as women age, their eggs actually 125 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: become riddled with DNA damage and end up dying off 126 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: because their DNA repairs. This ums were out, and this 127 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: links back to our episode on the breast cancer gene 128 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: brocco um and Brocco one specifically, UH they've found that 129 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: defects in DNA repair gene Brocco one may also lead 130 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: to egg DNA damage, and so your fertility is linked 131 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: to the egg cell's capacity to repair double straight of 132 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: DNA breaks. But if you have a defect in that 133 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: Brocco one gene, then the eggs cannot repair themselves. So 134 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: a woman with that gene mutation will probably exhaust hero 135 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: varian supply sooner, right, And so because of all of 136 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: those issues that we just mentioned, most women do become 137 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: unable to have a successful pregnancy sometime in their mid forties. 138 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: And what I learned is that you're not actually fertile 139 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: up until menopause. It's not like someone flips off a 140 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: switch suddenly and you go from being super fertile to 141 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: completely unfertile. Um. So the average age from menopau us 142 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: is fifty one, but you start losing that reserve of 143 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: eggs before the time that you've actually become completely infertile 144 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: or unable to give birth. Yeah. This is due to 145 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: something called a gradual loss of quote unquote ovarian reserve, 146 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: which is I'm now thinking about my ovaries as like 147 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: a like a stock room and a grocery store that 148 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: I don't know. If someone walks in and it's like, oh, 149 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: how many do we have this month? Not enough artichokes, 150 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. So as we age that ovarian reserve, 151 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: that stock room uh diminishes, and our follicles actually become 152 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: less sensitive to follical stimulating hormone, so they require more 153 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: stimulation for an egg to mature and ovulate, which is 154 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: why we see things like that higher rate of miscarriage. 155 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: And on top of that, we also have the issues 156 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: with egg quality deteriorating because of things like the increased 157 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: frequency of genetic abnormalities UM and also that can lead 158 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: to the a higher risk of Down syndrome and other 159 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: chromosomal disorders which are linked to getting pregnant when we 160 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: are older. Right, And one thing that I will admit 161 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: that I had not thought of before we were doing 162 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: the research for this is that even with in vitro 163 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: fertilization UM. At forty three, the chance of a successful 164 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: pregnancy is less than five percent because in vitro UH 165 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: doesn't just automatically magically make you super fertile and super 166 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: able to have like fifty children in one go. UM, 167 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: you still have to take into consideration the basic like 168 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: health of your eggs. Essentially, yeah and UM for women 169 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: older between forty five and forty nine, and I believe 170 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: this is also specifically related to in vitro only point 171 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: oh three percent a woman that old can have babies, 172 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: But then it's a question of once you get that old, 173 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: there are not that many women who are probably trying 174 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: to get pregnant. But for men, guess why y'all are 175 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: so fertile? Men's infertility usually doesn't sit in until they 176 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: turn around sixty, although studies in recent years have also 177 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: looked at sperm degeneration over the years, and even though 178 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: you might still be producing it older gents, it is 179 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: not as of of pristine quality as it is when 180 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: you are younger. So their sperm is also going a 181 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: little salt and pepper, A little salt and pepper. Well, 182 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: it's notable because UM, A lot of times when we 183 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: consider age and fertility and risk of chromosomeal disorders like 184 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: something like Down syndrome, it's usually like linked to the 185 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: mother and O sites. But this new research is saying, oh, 186 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: actually no, we also need to look at the quality 187 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: of the sperm as well. So well, I mean my parents, 188 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: My mom was thirty five and my dad was forty 189 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: when I was born. So it's it's funny, like I 190 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: have a totally different perspective on like parental age. Yeah everything. 191 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: My mother turned forty when while she was pregnant with me. 192 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: Actually um. And so if if you're feeling a little 193 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: bit anxious about all of this, you're not alone. There's 194 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: been a lot of concern about these numbers and out 195 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: and out fearmongering surrounding fertility and age, especially because we 196 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: are delaying childbirth, and by we, I mean women are 197 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: delaying childbirth more than ever before. And in two thousand two, 198 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: Sylvia and Hewlett wrote a book called Creating a Life, 199 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: and it really sparked a lot of renewed panic over 200 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: women's fertility versus career planning. Yeah, she basically said that 201 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: you should have your kids now while you're young and 202 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: spry or just don't have any at all, and that 203 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: you should plan ladies for grandchildren the way you plan 204 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: for that corner office. No comment, but um, she cited 205 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: a statistic that of professional forty year old woman women 206 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: deeply regretted not having kids, Like really, way to make 207 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: everybody panic, Like, oh, you think you're happy now with 208 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: your career and your dog and your husband or your partner. No, 209 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: you won't when you're forty, You're going to be so sad. Well, 210 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that there are I don't think that 211 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: she made that statistic up, but it's more of how 212 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: that statistic was broadcast out with things like a related 213 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: Time magazine cover story which said, quote, listen to a 214 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: successful woman discuss her failure to bear a child, and 215 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: the grief comes in layers of bitterness and regret, Like wow, okay. 216 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: There was a New York magazine cover baby panic. The 217 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: UK Observe or even jumped in with a cover story 218 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: one It's too late to have a baby And and 219 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: this was preceded by a two thousand one now kind 220 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: of infamous ad campaign by the American Society for Reproductive 221 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: Medicine called Preserve Your Fertility, and it showed a baby 222 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: bottle in the shape of an hour glass, to which 223 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: Newsweek said, should you have your baby now? And um. 224 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: While these kinds of concerns are are certainly valid for 225 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: women to pay attention to, shaking us and saying just 226 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: get pregnant already isn't the way to help us sort 227 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: through these questions of do I have a baby now? 228 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: Do I have a baby later? Door even want to 229 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: have a baby. Oh yeah, I gotta go to work now, 230 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about this later, right. Well, then enter Gene 231 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: Twins at The Atlantic, who wrote the book The Impatient 232 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant, and she wrote a very fascinating, 233 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: very long article about not only getting pregnant at different 234 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: ages or perhaps getting pregnant later in life, but also 235 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: just that that fertility fearmongering that we were talking about. 236 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: Gene Twins herself is a mother of three, all of 237 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: whom were born after thirty five, and she starts off 238 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: her article by talking about like how how concerned she 239 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: was about when and whether she would even get to 240 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: have children because of a divorce that she went through. Yeah, 241 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: and she basically took a closer look at those statistics 242 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: that we tossed out about the fertility and age that 243 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: are sited over and over and over again, especially zeroing 244 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: in on that thirty five drop off, and she uncovered 245 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: more recent studies that once you tease a part, the 246 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: methodology seemed to contradict very strongly just how um whether 247 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: or not those numbers are really the gospel um. For instance, 248 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: biostatistician David Dunson, who's now at Duke University, found that 249 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: there is only a four percent drop in pregnancy rates 250 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: from age eight to thirty seven. That doesn't sound terrifying, 251 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: and she underscored this that often cited fertility statistic that 252 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: one of three women between thirty five and thirty nine 253 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: won't get pregnant after one year of trying is wait 254 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: for people based on French birth records from sixteen seventy 255 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: to eighteen thirty. Right. I was talking to my older 256 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: sister about this whole fertility age thing. Uh, And I 257 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: mentioned that about the French birth records and she I 258 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: think she might have pounded the table. She was so angry. 259 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: What what then? Yeah? I mean and twins, As Twins 260 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: points out, like that's in an era before antibiotics or 261 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: lightbulbs yeah, so so let's I think, you know. She 262 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: she definitely points out that updated studies and statistics are 263 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: in order. Um, talking further about done since two thousand 264 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: four study examining the chances of pregnancy among seven hundred 265 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: and seventy European women, uh Dunson found that with sex 266 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: at least twice a week, two of women thirty five 267 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: to thirty nine conceived within a year, compared to six 268 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: percent of women twenty seven to thirty four. And that, 269 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that's really not a huge difference, right, No, 270 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: although and not to be crass, they were probably some 271 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: people listen and saying, oh, that's great. Where am I 272 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: going to find time to have sex fice a week? Okay? 273 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: The schedule that in I put it in your plan, 274 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: your your day day planning, and put it on your 275 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: your get a shared Google calendar. There was also a 276 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: March study and Fertility and Sterility, which was led by 277 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: Kenneth Rothman of Boston University, and it looked at around 278 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: three thousand Danish women as they tried to get pregnant, 279 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: and he found similarly not a huge drop between the 280 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: chances of thirty forty year olds getting preg know within 281 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: a year compared to twenty and thirty four year olds. 282 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: He found that among women who have sex during their 283 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: fertile times, and that's that's the thing. You can't look 284 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: at when people are doing it, how often they're doing it, 285 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: how much, how they're trying to get pregnant. And he 286 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: found that seventy eight percent of that older group got 287 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: pregnant within a year compared to among the younger folks. 288 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: So hi their way a lot of pregnanciesveling. Yeah, And 289 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: there was another study by Anne Steiner, who's an associate 290 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, 291 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: and those results were actually presented in June of this year, 292 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: so not too long ago. Um Steiner found that among 293 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: thirty eight and thirty nine year olds who had been 294 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: pregnant before, eight percent of white women of normal weight 295 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: got pregnant naturally within six months. She did find, however, 296 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: that the percentage was lower among women of other ethnic backgrounds, 297 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: and among the overweight. There was not a huge drop 298 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: in fertility or conceiving until the age of forty So 299 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: what's going on here? Where? Why do we have these 300 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: kinds of conflicting statistics? Off some saying oh, you know what, 301 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna hit thirty five and you're gonna have that 302 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: major drop off, and then these other studies coming around 303 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: and saying, actually, not so much. Um. Basically, it turns 304 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: out it kind of turns on challenges of accurately gauging 305 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: natural conception because of things like how modern birth records 306 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: are a bit uninformative because a lot of women have 307 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: their kids in their twenties and then they hop on 308 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: birth control or have sterilization surgery to prevent pregnancy during 309 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: their thirties and forties. And also if you say, well, 310 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: why don't you just ask a couple how long it 311 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: took them to conceive or how long they've been trying, 312 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: and self reporting is not the most reliable and accurate 313 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: way to gauge something now. I mean, I can't even remember. 314 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: Like I will go home after recording the podcast and 315 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: my roommay will be like, so, what's your Christen talk 316 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: about today? And I'm like, something about something about grocery 317 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: store stock rooms. I think, yeah, I think it was 318 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: about artichokes. I can't recall. So yeah, asking people to 319 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: self report about anything, especially something as private and personal 320 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: as their sexual behavior, and patterns, it is a little unreliable. 321 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: One of the best ways to measure fertility is cycle variability, 322 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: which is looking at the chance of getting pregnant if 323 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: a couple has sex, like we just said, on the 324 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: most fertile day of a woman's cycle. Those studies that 325 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: are based on cycle variability monitor couples as they attempt 326 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: to get pregnant, rather than asking them after the fact 327 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: to remember how long it took. And it seems like 328 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: those more recent studies that take that cycle variability into 329 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: account and really gauge the pregnancy around that seems like 330 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: that's where you see those more optimistics statistics in terms 331 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: of older women and by older I mean over thirty five, 332 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: which gosh, that's not actually older, but older compared to 333 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: women in their twenties junior in college. Yes, um, it 334 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: does seem like when you take all of that into account, 335 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: the statistics are not that scary. Now, all of this said, 336 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: things are going to vary from person to person, but 337 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: at least maybe that can diminish some of the anxiety 338 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: around it. Although although apparently, at least according to more 339 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: recent reports we've read in the news, a lot of 340 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: women aren't that freaked out they actually think that they'll 341 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: be able to have a baby after their forty because 342 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of celebrities doing it. Yeah, Halle Berry, 343 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, people like that, who you know. They're having 344 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: these fantastically glamorous lives, wonderful shoes and great skin, and 345 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: they are giving birth to all of these beautiful babies. Yeah, 346 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: Halle Berry got pregnant when she was forty six. Kelly 347 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: Preston Beater, she got pregnant at forty seventeen. Off also 348 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: had had a baby at forty one. I wonder where 349 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: her shoes are like, but it's just a lot of 350 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: Tom's anyway. Yeah. So a lot of trend stories now 351 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: that we're seeing have a lot to do with women 352 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: who aren't so much worried that that clock is ticking 353 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: as they are sort of overly optimistic that it's not 354 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: ticking at all. I look great, I feel great. I 355 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: feel like I'm twenty. I feel like I'm a junior 356 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 1: in college taking finals. So I should be able to 357 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: have a baby, right well. Uh. An article from NPR 358 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: Inven talked about a survey that was funded by the 359 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: biopharmaceutical company Ian D Serranto, which found women dramatically underestimate 360 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: how much fertility declines with age and how much time 361 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: it actually takes to get pregnant. And this is in 362 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: line with a twenty eleven New York Times article we 363 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: found on it talked to a lot of women who 364 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: were very surprised that they could not get pregnant immediately. 365 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I will say that was a classic kind 366 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: of New York Times trend piece though, where they talked to, 367 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, a number of very well off women who 368 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: I don't know it was. The tone of it was almost, um, 369 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, derogatory towards them, because they would talk 370 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: about how, you know, she she looks so young because 371 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: she's had some botox, and but she can't, you know, 372 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: she can't get filler and her tummy in the form 373 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: of a baby. These women are so dumb, you know, 374 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: Like it was I don't know, but it did. It did. 375 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: Quote Dr Ingrid Roadie, who's an associate clinical professor of 376 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: obstetrics and gynecology at the David Geffen School of Medicine 377 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: at u c l A, and she said, they all 378 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: think they're more fertile than they are. I have patients 379 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: who say, I'm forty eight, but everyone thinks I'm thirty five. 380 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: Shouldn't I be as fertile as a thirty eight year old? 381 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know. I feel like that 382 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: case of a forty eight year old a really wanting 383 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: to have a baby. Forty eight year olds listening correct 384 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, and be how many forty eight 385 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: year old women look in the mirror and think that, 386 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: based on their lack of crow's feet that they're that 387 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: that must reflect in the youth of their ovaries. You know, 388 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: do you feel like that's just kind of a case 389 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: of anecdote. Yeah, I mean it for sure, it could 390 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: be completely anecdotal, But I mean it's entirely possible that that, um, 391 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: maybe women who don't understand that just because you do 392 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: look great and you exercise and you go to yoga 393 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: every day, you know, being limber and beautiful and wrinkle 394 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: lists on the outside, that has nothing to do with 395 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: the fact that your ovaries are degenerating every year. Well, 396 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: it's also compelling because when you consider the fact that 397 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: Sylvia and Hewlett's book Creating a Life that set off 398 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: all that fearmongering came out in two thousand two, and 399 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: these articles are coming out ten years later saying, actually, 400 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: we're not concerned enough, so can we find a happy 401 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: medium somewhere? Because I feel like I see more of 402 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: the Sylvia and Hewlett end of it, saying you better 403 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: have a baby, you know, go ahead and do it. 404 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: You've got energy now. Yeah, it's gonna, you know, make 405 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: a dent in your paycheck, but you've got to make 406 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: it work and work up until you know, with that pregnancy, 407 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: until you go into labrin and get back in. Um. 408 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: I feel like there's more than more of that than 409 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: this idea that we're seeing so many older celebrities having 410 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: babies and who knows whether like whether those are quote 411 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: unquote natural pregnancy or not. Well. But also I mean 412 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: talking about anecdotally, you know, when you talk to your friends, 413 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: like I feel like I have way more friends and 414 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: acquaintances and colleagues and all that stuff, who are like, no, 415 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: I want to have babies now because I want to 416 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: be young with my kids, and I want to play 417 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: with my kids. You know, my parents were older, so 418 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I want to be able to get down on the 419 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: floor and play with them and not run out of energy. 420 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: I feel like, I hear that a lot more from 421 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: people I know than like, I'll get around to it exactly. 422 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: And the older that I get, the more those conversations 423 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: definitely come up, and the more cognizant they are of 424 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: a specific time frame, because it used to just be oh, 425 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: do you want to have babies or not in a 426 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: very kind of abstract way, and now it's I want 427 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: to be pregnant by the time I am fill in 428 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: the blank, you know. Um so, oh, so what do 429 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: we take away from all of this, Caroline? Um? I think, 430 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: not to not to turn this into a cop out, 431 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: but I mean, I think what I learned and what 432 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: was reinforced is that your eggs are not my eggs, Kristen, 433 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: Thank god, because that would be creepy and almost a possible. 434 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: But we all, I mean, we all have different health 435 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: experiences that um dictate you know, whether you will be 436 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: able to get pregnant at thirty seven and whether I would. Yeah, 437 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: I mean, And and the tips honestly for minimizing pregnancy 438 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: risk for women over thirty five are pretty much the 439 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: same for those under thirty five. It's stuff like taking 440 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: prenatal vitamins, seeing your doctor for pregnancy checkups, eating well, exercising, 441 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: cutting out nicotine, alcohol, drugs, things that you should do anyway, 442 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: essentially being healthy. Um. But UM, I take away from 443 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: this that thirty five is not necessarily the signpost. You know, 444 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: it's it's not. Um, I don't know. Yeah, I think 445 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: it's it's not. Thirty five is not a time when 446 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: you're like counting down to it and you start to panic. 447 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we have quite a bit more 448 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: time after that. So I don't want anybody to feel 449 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: guilty for choosing a career right now, or travel or 450 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: school over, or just not having a baby right now 451 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: because they just don't want one now or or ever. 452 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: And I know that I'm sure that there are women 453 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: thirty five and older who are listening, and you're the 454 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: ones that I'm so curious to hear from because I'm 455 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: wondering what kind of external pressure for women over thirty 456 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: five that they get, because I have a feeling that 457 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: hearing these kinds of statistics affect us a lot differently 458 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: than they affect them, because for you and me, it's 459 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: not we're not quite there yet. But I wonder for 460 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: women who are in that demographic UM, and men who 461 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: are in relationships with women who are in that demographic. 462 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: How how that goes? Um? And what what your doctor 463 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: does and doesn't tell you. And also this whole celebrity factor. 464 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: Is it really something that's altering our perception of utility? Um? 465 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: So let us know your thoughts on this one. I'm 466 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be really curious to hear what folks have 467 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: to say. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where 468 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: you can send your letters. You can also tweet us 469 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: and mom Stuff podcast and leave us a note over 470 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: on Facebook like us while you're at it. And we've 471 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: got a couple of letters to read. And now back 472 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: to our letters. Well, we got a couple of letters 473 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: here on our episode on a s MR. We got 474 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: a surprising number of letters on that one, some from 475 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: people who knew exactly what we were talking about and 476 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: others who didn't have a language. You didn't know that 477 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: a SMR was a thing until they listen to the podcast. 478 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: So I have one here from Laura, who has experienced 479 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: a SMR and she even watches the video. She said, 480 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: I was super excited when I saw the title of 481 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: your latest podcast, and even more excited when you started 482 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: off by saying that you had experienced a s MR yourselves. 483 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: It's such a weird concept to get across to people 484 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: who don't experience it, but you did a lovely job 485 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: like many other people. I had experienced a SMR, but 486 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was or that other people 487 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: had it. About a year ago, I watched an a 488 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: s MR or showing off a Buffy the Vampire Slayer collection. 489 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm a Buffy nerd. I started off thinking this is 490 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: so silly and odd that I kept watching, and then 491 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: I started to get the tingles upun Clicking through her 492 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: other videos, I kept seeing the term a SMR and 493 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: the titles and googled it mind blown. I'm still developing 494 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: my triggers. Many of the normal things worked, like soft 495 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: speaking or deliberate repetitive motions and nail tapping, crinkly sounds, 496 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: brushing things. My earliest memory of getting tingles was with 497 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: one of my friends in elementary school. She would often 498 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: do these very deliberate repetitive motions that made me zonne 499 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: out in a good relaxing way. Also, Pbs Staples, Bob Ross, 500 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: and why Lana of the Yoga series were soft speakers 501 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: who triggered me before I knew what triggering was. For 502 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: the role play videos, I do sort of have to 503 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: detach myself from the experience to enjoy it. I'm watching 504 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: a video of someone pretending to paint my face so 505 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: I will look like a tiger. This is crazy for me. 506 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: It is really about the soft speaking, actions and sound, 507 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: so I prefer the videos that highlight those elements. I 508 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: have one here from Carrie, who says that last week 509 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: I subscribed to stuff Mom never told you, and I 510 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: love it. Hooray, welcome Carrie. We're so happy to have you, 511 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: she says. Today, I listened to the A. S. M 512 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: R podcast during work, and I was so shocked that 513 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: there's a name for this experience. I thought I was 514 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: the only one. I had to stop what I was 515 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: doing and write this email. I remember having the experiences 516 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: a lot during college, when I'd help fellow students write 517 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: and edit their college papers, or when i'd explain difficult 518 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: concepts in literature to them. I was an English major. 519 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: I get an extremely calming, tangling, feeling almost warm and fuzzy, 520 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: and it was like the rest of the world was 521 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: blocked out. I'd feel completely safe. I think in part, 522 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: it was the student's reliance on me to help them 523 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: through a task that made me feel this way. I've 524 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: also experienced did it one of my first jobs, when 525 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: I was training some women on how to use the 526 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: company's medical software. I think I'd feel embarrassed because I 527 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: hardly knew these people, yet I'd have this brain orgasm 528 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: that made me feel comfortable with them. I never told 529 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: anyone about these celestial wash a great term feelings. They're 530 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: certainly not sexual feelings and not a fetish at all. Honestly, 531 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: I don't remember the last time I experienced a s MR, 532 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: and I missed the feelings. I think the closest I've 533 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: gotten to one in the past few years is reading 534 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: a book and hearing and feeling my cat purring next 535 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: to me. I'd have to say that these experiences were 536 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: primarily in the company of other women. The podcast did 537 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: mention a s MR releasing serotonin. I'm currently on an 538 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: SSR I medication for anxiety. Part of the reason why 539 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: I want a s MR feelings to return is to 540 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: help me relax. It's not something that I can force, 541 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,239 Speaker 1: though it can only happen naturally. I'm so glad that 542 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: I share a SMR with other people and then I'm 543 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: not a Weirdoh no, you're not carry And thank you 544 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: for writing in, and thanks to everyone who has written in. 545 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: Um Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can 546 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: email us. You can also follow us on Twitter at 547 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcasts and find us on Facebook as well 548 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: as on tumbler stuff mom Never Told You dot tumbler 549 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: dot com, and we're also on YouTube. We've got fun 550 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: new videos to go up four times a week, so 551 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: you should check them out there at YouTube dot com, 552 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: slash stuff mom Never Told You, and don't forget friends 553 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: to subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics. 554 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com