Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlow Thomas, and
Speaker 1: we're going on a series of double dates to find
Speaker 1: out what makes a marriage last. It was a beautiful
Speaker 1: summer afternoon the day we took a short walk to
Speaker 1: the home of Kelly Rippa and Mark Hansuelos on Manhattan's
Speaker 1: East Side. Having arrived at their four story brownstone, we
Speaker 1: got to experience firsthand what countless audiences have seen on
Speaker 1: the small screen, this couple's funny, playful, and truly affectionate
Speaker 1: connection to each other. They showed us into a very
Speaker 1: proper living room, where we sat across from each other
Speaker 1: at a table filled with goodies. They look so young,
Speaker 1: it's hard to believe they're old enough to have been
Speaker 1: together twenty five years. I've read some bits and pieces
Speaker 1: about them through the years, so I was looking forward
Speaker 1: to filling in their story. We met when we were
Speaker 1: really young, twenty four And what about you? Did you
Speaker 1: have a place there? Yeah? I was living on my
Speaker 1: own by that point, I had you know, I hadn't
Speaker 1: had roommates in a couple of years. I was living
Speaker 1: in my own apartment and you were kind of you
Speaker 1: had a steady job, yeah. I was on a soap opera.
Speaker 1: I was on All My Children. That's where I met Mark.
Speaker 1: I a screen test at him. Oh yeah, you were
Speaker 1: in the screen test. Yeah. Yeah. I met him the
Speaker 1: day before the screen test, but I had seen his
Speaker 1: picture before. The castle director she said, I think I
Speaker 1: found our guy. She said, he's green, he's never done anything,
Speaker 1: and he's in Tampa, Florida. And I was like, you're kidding.
Speaker 1: And she shows me this picture and I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: I am dad, I'm dazzled. I am dazzled by this person.
Speaker 1: And I don't get dazzled. A headshot is a headshot.
Speaker 1: I mean, how many headshots have we all seen. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a particularly good headshot either. I was dazzled, dazzling
Speaker 1: and so and so. They brought him in a day
Speaker 1: early because he had never done a screen test before.
Speaker 1: I had curlers in my hair. I hadn't been in
Speaker 1: makeup yet. I looked like a disaster. A pimple coming
Speaker 1: up on my cover covered it was. It was covered
Speaker 1: up with like medicine, you know. It was like a
Speaker 1: toothpaste or something on the pimple. And I walked into
Speaker 1: the room and there was the head shot. Well you will.
Speaker 1: You dazzled when you met her, of course, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. I was such. I was such such. You know,
Speaker 1: you go from living in Tampa getting off a plane
Speaker 1: and then you're screen testing for a job. It's going
Speaker 1: to change your life. I was, I was, you know,
Speaker 1: my head was spinning with I can't believe this is happening.
Speaker 1: Are you? Well? You and Tampa because your family lived
Speaker 1: in town. Yeah, they lived in Tampa. And I finished
Speaker 1: up my last two years of college in Tampa at
Speaker 1: South Florida. And your and your dad is Spanish, and
Speaker 1: your mom's Italian Mexican Italian Mexican Italian, And what do
Speaker 1: you I'm Italian both of my parents. You're kidding, No,
Speaker 1: my mom is her. My mom's dad was Irish. So
Speaker 1: I think that's where I get my ear brom. I
Speaker 1: think that's a great Yeah, it's a good comma, I
Speaker 1: really think so. Yeah. He always says that Italians and
Speaker 1: I respect the best. Yeah, And I don't know why
Speaker 1: I say that. I can't prove it, no, but I
Speaker 1: agree with you because I think my parents have I mean,
Speaker 1: speaking about marriages, our between our parents, our parents have
Speaker 1: been married over one hundred and ten years, one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty years, like our parents have been. So you
Speaker 1: saw really good marriages. Yeah. Do you think that's helped
Speaker 1: figure it out? Yeah? Yes, you try to act with
Speaker 1: what your father acted. I can't help it. I can't
Speaker 1: help it, but I'm sure I do. That's a great combination.
Speaker 1: Nobody dominates. Nobody dominates. I think in certain areas they would.
Speaker 1: And what about with you two? It is one if
Speaker 1: you do the finances, the one of you do something
Speaker 1: else Mark does. Mark is really the financial planner, and
Speaker 1: Mark is responsible for every good financial thing that's ever
Speaker 1: happened to us. I don't I can't think of anything
Speaker 1: bad that you've done, really, I mean financially. Finally, he's
Speaker 1: really got like that is a thing that I said
Speaker 1: to him. Remember when we first met. I said to him,
Speaker 1: I've never met an actor that's good at math. And
Speaker 1: he said, I'm a terrible actor. I'm not that's really
Speaker 1: good at math. Yeah. So I do kind of take
Speaker 1: that part of the role here, and she makes the
Speaker 1: home a home, Like every holiday, we would have nothing
Speaker 1: if it was up to me. It's funny because I
Speaker 1: think of us as so progressive, as a couple, I
Speaker 1: always think of us like sort of politically progressive, if
Speaker 1: we're more progressive people, and yet when it comes to
Speaker 1: our own family and our marriages and our roles, I
Speaker 1: think of us very traditional and almost old fashioned in
Speaker 1: our roles because because why because he's sort of you know,
Speaker 1: I He's made it so that I've never had to
Speaker 1: like leave home to work, like I've been able to
Speaker 1: raise my kids here in this city, in the nest
Speaker 1: and maintain. And he's always been willing to travel and
Speaker 1: go to a set and go off here, and sometimes
Speaker 1: he's had to go live in another country to work
Speaker 1: on a set over there, and he's never like some
Speaker 1: would say, you made this sacrifice. No, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, traveling is hard, and like being away from
Speaker 1: home is hard, and all of that is like sometimes
Speaker 1: he would miss milestones for the kids, and I know
Speaker 1: that was hard for him, and he made it so
Speaker 1: that I could I didn't have to worry. Did make
Speaker 1: it because we were agonizing who are we? What are
Speaker 1: we going to be? And this the talk show opportunity
Speaker 1: came up and he's like, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think you should do it. It seemed so out of
Speaker 1: my depth, and not in my wheelhouse, and not what
Speaker 1: I was used to. And he said, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it will allow you to do the things that
Speaker 1: you've always wanted to do, which was really I wanted
Speaker 1: to raise my kids. I didn't want to have them
Speaker 1: and never get to see them. And the talk show
Speaker 1: afforded me this opportunity where I would work in the morning,
Speaker 1: early in the morning, and then I would have the
Speaker 1: rest of the day to take them to their activities
Speaker 1: or be there and watch the ballet recital and do
Speaker 1: all of those things. And so in that way, we're
Speaker 1: very traditional. You know. He made those sacrifices and then
Speaker 1: and then, but I think, you know, he wouldn't know
Speaker 1: how to find a ballet class. He wouldn't know how
Speaker 1: to go about signing the kids up for religion classes
Speaker 1: like he wouldn't know how to do it. I don't
Speaker 1: remember how people's birthdays. He remembers every single person's birthday
Speaker 1: in our family, and they are taking care of every
Speaker 1: single time without fail um. She reminds me to make calls,
Speaker 1: call your your dad's birthday, you have to call. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's you're you remind me of all that stuff. But
Speaker 1: tell Marlow unfilled the conversation you were having with me today,
Speaker 1: because going back to what you were saying about learning
Speaker 1: from your dad, I think I was maybe like um,
Speaker 1: around twenty years old, and I just moved back home
Speaker 1: and I had a horrible breakup, and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: and we talked a lot. We spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time together, you know, driving to soccer practice. He take me,
Speaker 1: you know, he spent We spent a lot of good
Speaker 1: time together. And I was saying, I this is it.
Speaker 1: I'm never going to get in a relationship again. I'm
Speaker 1: never I don't want to get married, I don't want
Speaker 1: to have kids. I'm just gonna be by myself, you know.
Speaker 1: And so he said to me, so listen, he was,
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna be successful, and not being able
Speaker 1: to share that with someone is very sad. You're gonna
Speaker 1: want to share it with someone, you know. There's nothing
Speaker 1: more sad than an older guide by himself, right, And
Speaker 1: I and I and I didn't believe him. I go, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, well I'll be by myself. And I walked
Speaker 1: away and I didn't believe it. And then I believed it.
Speaker 1: All my girlfriends got married. It was a bride maid
Speaker 1: a million times, and I thought, quod, great, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be an actress. I'm free. I'm going to London
Speaker 1: live for a year and do a play. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this, I'm gonna do that. You know. It just
Speaker 1: wasn't for me. And then I met mister blue Eyes
Speaker 1: here and it was like like like, I can't picture
Speaker 1: the two of you without each other. Like to me,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's like the best. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: really are peanut butter and Jelly. I remember I was
Speaker 1: having a very funny conversation because Kelly was very independent
Speaker 1: and lived in the city for about five or six
Speaker 1: years before I got there, and she was, you know,
Speaker 1: on her own and she did her thing. And then
Speaker 1: when I came in. You know, I I am a
Speaker 1: traditional guy like I you know, I feel like there
Speaker 1: are certain roles. It's hard to explain exactly what those
Speaker 1: roles are. But we had a conversation where I said, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: there's really only a room for one man in this relationship.
Speaker 1: It's going to be and it's gonna be me. I
Speaker 1: think we were arguing over where we were going on vacation.
Speaker 1: It was something really it was a luxurious problem to have.
Speaker 1: And I said to him, I am a woman of
Speaker 1: this generation, and I've been on my own for a
Speaker 1: long time. Like I've I've not answered, I've not answered
Speaker 1: to my parents, right, So I'm a I'm a grown woman,
Speaker 1: and so you're gonna have to forgive me if it
Speaker 1: takes me a minute to keep up with the clock
Speaker 1: that you're rolling back before my you know, my, I
Speaker 1: knew what it was about, but we laugh about it now.
Speaker 1: It was kind of funny. It was a great conversation.
Speaker 1: What I will say, though, is I've watched Mark with
Speaker 1: our daughter and the way you raise her to never
Speaker 1: take to never take a backseat position to any person
Speaker 1: that she dates, any man that she did. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's very it's funny. The evolution of you is kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating. When we first got married, I think Mark
Speaker 1: felt like he rushed into it and maybe he made
Speaker 1: a mistake and maybe he was regretting it. And he
Speaker 1: took my wedding ring and threw it out the window.
Speaker 1: Who and and and then he turned around and I said,
Speaker 1: I'm still here, because I really think he thought in
Speaker 1: that moment that somehow I would just go and like
Speaker 1: vanish or evaporate. And I was like, now what and
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it was like that moment
Speaker 1: of oh my gosh, she is still here and I
Speaker 1: just did that horrible thing and she's still here and
Speaker 1: she doesn't really seem that rattled, right if I'm getting
Speaker 1: into your head in the moment that it was a
Speaker 1: big bold move. And I think he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's great, but that but that's people who are
Speaker 1: getting married or twenty five years old. That's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't do that when you're fifty two exact,
Speaker 1: And oh you don't. And I think hope that we don't.
Speaker 1: But that was the thing. It was like I looked
Speaker 1: at him and I said, you know, um, I get it,
Speaker 1: Like I get it, I'm young and married. I'm scared too,
Speaker 1: Like I get it, this is forever. I'm I'm with you.
Speaker 1: Now we have to go find that ring. I mean,
Speaker 1: but that was like that to me, is like that's
Speaker 1: a defining moment. I'm sure, and I'm sure there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people that would have said I'm done.
Speaker 1: I'm done. That is outrageous. That is crazy behavior. Um,
Speaker 1: and I understood where it was coming from. It was
Speaker 1: like coming from a place of terror and genuine fear
Speaker 1: and oh my god, I have to spend the rest
Speaker 1: of my life with this woman who does not value time,
Speaker 1: who is chronically late. Let me ask you this, what's
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge you think you've ever faced as a couple,
Speaker 1: Because what's important about that is how do you come
Speaker 1: back from it? You know? How do we get through
Speaker 1: trying moments? Yeah, or something? It's interesting, Um, I think
Speaker 1: that one of us remains extremely calm. Is it always
Speaker 1: the same one? Nope, Nope, It depends on the situation,
Speaker 1: depends on it. If it's happening to us together, our
Speaker 1: fa we have got a moment like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: one of us stays calm, the other one freaks out. Um,
Speaker 1: and we get through it. I'm talking like family cancer
Speaker 1: when his mom when his mom was diagnosed with breast cancer,
Speaker 1: and it was like a scary time for us and
Speaker 1: it was you and then my and my mom got
Speaker 1: cancer and my dad had heart surgery and our parents
Speaker 1: were falling like dominoes and thank god they're all fine.
Speaker 1: Now what did you do with this? Is so great
Speaker 1: because this is what everybody goes right. PA's older than
Speaker 1: us right of course deal with it. So how did
Speaker 1: you help each other? How did you you know, like
Speaker 1: did you get the news on the phone and then
Speaker 1: what did the other one? Do you know? So do
Speaker 1: you want to hear something really funny? My mom. We
Speaker 1: were with my mom when she was diagnosed, and Mark
Speaker 1: and my mom came home from the doctor. It was
Speaker 1: at ten thirty in the morning. I had just had
Speaker 1: my son, Michael, who is now twenty two years old. Um,
Speaker 1: I think I was still on maternity leave, which is
Speaker 1: why I was home and you guys, and it was
Speaker 1: I think ten ten thirty am, ten am. They opened
Speaker 1: a bottle of scotch. We had never like, we kept
Speaker 1: a bottle of scotch, just sort of like in case
Speaker 1: anybody ever asked for a Scotch, which we had never
Speaker 1: nobody ever said your Scott, you know, we didn't. It
Speaker 1: was in case anybody successful ever came over, we would
Speaker 1: offer them scott. And they opened a bottle of scotch.
Speaker 1: And they both drank like a like a glass a
Speaker 1: tumbler of scotch. And I'd never see my mom drank.
Speaker 1: And I was and I was and I was sobbing,
Speaker 1: and I was sobbing. And I was sobbing, and and
Speaker 1: and I called, and I called my sister, and my
Speaker 1: sister said, I can't talk Dad. Um is uh. Dad
Speaker 1: collapsed and I'm on my way to the hospital. He
Speaker 1: needs a bypass surgery. Yeah. And then the same day,
Speaker 1: same day, It's the same exact day, and I said
Speaker 1: to Mark, Oh, my god, we are cursed. We have
Speaker 1: to get a priest here. I mean, we have to
Speaker 1: bless we have to live, We need holy water, we
Speaker 1: have to burn candles. Like I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I was on the scene. And then when my mom
Speaker 1: was fighting cancer, Kelly, she took her, She took her
Speaker 1: into our home and she lived with us for seven
Speaker 1: to eight months. Yeah. Well, yeah, a lot. It was
Speaker 1: a you know, it was a lot ye problem. And
Speaker 1: she would go to the chemo with her and the
Speaker 1: radiation with her and bathed her. I owe it to
Speaker 1: my parents and to his mom. I owe it to
Speaker 1: them to take care of them the way they've taken
Speaker 1: care of us. I don't want to screw it up.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give them sub substandard care because
Speaker 1: they raised us, so they raised us in a way
Speaker 1: that is like we are my parents and raise you.
Speaker 1: But and you did and does it and she does
Speaker 1: it I mean dad, Yeah, and my dad comes to
Speaker 1: New York for his heart doctor and she goes with
Speaker 1: him and sits there and takes notes for him and
Speaker 1: accompanies him. I mean, it's swore. Are you when she's
Speaker 1: doing that. I'm in Vancouver working, Oh, typically right, I'm
Speaker 1: not here. But she does it. She's like, I'm going,
Speaker 1: that's great, But that bespeaks a wonderful testament to your folks.
Speaker 1: My mom gave me the best advice. She said, be
Speaker 1: good to your mother in law. She said, you treat
Speaker 1: your mother in law the way you would treat me,
Speaker 1: but nicer. We'll have more. After a quick break, we're
Speaker 1: back to our conversation with Kelly Rippa and Mark Unsuelos.
Speaker 1: They seem so perfectly aligned. Marlow naturally wanted to know
Speaker 1: how do they fight? How you fight is something to learn.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had to learn how to fight. I
Speaker 1: am an immediate thing. I'm a firecracker that goes off
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah. He would simmer for a while and
Speaker 1: then explode, so we didn't. It was a while for
Speaker 1: us to be able to align our temperaments. To you
Speaker 1: have to feel safe, right, Yeah, you have to. You
Speaker 1: have to feel safe in the fight. That know that,
Speaker 1: you know, I realize that I am Phil and Marlowe.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I simmer and then I explode. I do.
Speaker 1: I Sometimes I liken it to a Kama Kazi mission.
Speaker 1: Every now and then you gotta yeah, like you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna We're gonna fight. Yeah, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: let's get let's go, let's let's really have a blowout.
Speaker 1: And I know I'm gonna lose what And because she's
Speaker 1: always right, oh yeah, where do you stay married? That's great?
Speaker 1: And I know I'm gonna have to apologize. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you will tend to rise above it. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like when when I go low, he'll go high. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I will somehow try to get it a
Speaker 1: shovel and I'll try to dig myself. I'll try to
Speaker 1: dig lower and he's like, so he still stays he
Speaker 1: really do you really have like maintained? Oh good, you
Speaker 1: know that. I've always know I admire it about you.
Speaker 1: It's like not every now and then I'm gonna You're
Speaker 1: gonna blow Yeah. Sometimes I'll be amazed at like what
Speaker 1: he's willing to like die on what cross he's will
Speaker 1: be right? And I go that, really, I mean like,
Speaker 1: I'll fall asleep in the middle of some Netflix series
Speaker 1: and I know it's not about Netflix, but the argument
Speaker 1: has been I guess it's more of a fill thing.
Speaker 1: It must have been simmering in there for quite some time,
Speaker 1: you know, And he'll say, well, I've been waiting to
Speaker 1: watch this with you. I've been in Canada and I
Speaker 1: promised you I wouldn't watch it, and I've been waiting
Speaker 1: to watch it now you're asleep. But I know it's
Speaker 1: really not about that. It's probably about seven arguments ago,
Speaker 1: where I got where I got my way or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, I've we've had that argument as well. And
Speaker 1: or I've not done something as they wanted to do
Speaker 1: it with Phil and he'll fall asleep, or he'll not
Speaker 1: want to go and as you promised, or whatever, And
Speaker 1: it actually hurts my feelings because I had built it
Speaker 1: up in my mind. But this is something we're going
Speaker 1: to share together. And then it's then I feel like, well,
Speaker 1: I lost this thing. I thought I was gonna Hey,
Speaker 1: I was like having a live stream Sunday. I didn't
Speaker 1: get you know, right, isn't that kind of what It's
Speaker 1: a It's a disappointment, that's what I feel. What do
Speaker 1: they say? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it just is. It's as simple as that he
Speaker 1: wanted to share it with you. He's been waiting to
Speaker 1: share it with you, and you're bombed out, so the
Speaker 1: thing is not quite as much fun as it was.
Speaker 1: That kind of Yeah, were you always comfortable sharing feelings
Speaker 1: with each other? That's one of you have to teach
Speaker 1: the other how to do that. Interesting. I was just
Speaker 1: no matter what he told me, I used to have
Speaker 1: a conversation with myself, no matter what he's about to say,
Speaker 1: don't have any expression on your face, because if you
Speaker 1: have an expression, he might clam up and he might
Speaker 1: feel ashamed of whatever he's told you or judged in
Speaker 1: some way. So I would be very mindful to not
Speaker 1: have any expression at all, no matter what he said.
Speaker 1: The expression I was always, you know, it was. It
Speaker 1: was before I used to get BOTI, before I got botox,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like before I don't even know
Speaker 1: if botox existed at the time, but I mastered the
Speaker 1: art of having no expression that was a great accommodation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I call an accommodation. It's a good yeah,
Speaker 1: because you don't want the person to think that there
Speaker 1: are being judged. You want your spouse to feel safe
Speaker 1: and know that in you they have a confidant, somebody
Speaker 1: that they can trust, somebody that's like going to walk
Speaker 1: through the fire with them, whatever it is. And ps.
Speaker 1: Anytime he had told me something, what I had built
Speaker 1: up in my mind, like anytime he would say I
Speaker 1: have to tell you something, I want you to get upset,
Speaker 1: what my brain went to was so dark and crazy.
Speaker 1: I would say, he's about to tell me that he's
Speaker 1: disposed of a body. Once but it was always like
Speaker 1: something so benign. What do you think is the difference
Speaker 1: between your marriage and other friends marriages? Well, we have
Speaker 1: a lot like we have. I have to say my
Speaker 1: friend group, I have a lot of happily married friends.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is a great thing because
Speaker 1: I think if you don't um, I think that that
Speaker 1: can we can really spread like the unhappiness. And I agree.
Speaker 1: And there are people like there were people in our lives,
Speaker 1: like early on in our friendship circles that would make
Speaker 1: us unhappy and we would never figure out like quite
Speaker 1: why we would become unhappy around these people, and we
Speaker 1: realized they were in an unhappy marriage, and it was
Speaker 1: like the stress of feeling their unhappiness would somehow tap
Speaker 1: into our souls almost because would get into an argument
Speaker 1: as soon as we would leave their home or leave
Speaker 1: the dinner table at the restaurant. And it's not like
Speaker 1: us to sort of like have a perfectly lovely evening
Speaker 1: and then fight out the way home. And we realized
Speaker 1: we were like we were wearing their energy when things
Speaker 1: aren't going well, which that happens the time. How do
Speaker 1: you reset, well, You think about what you did wrong,
Speaker 1: and then when you talk about it and you apologize
Speaker 1: for it. You apologize even if you feel like you've
Speaker 1: done nothing wrong. I think you owe it to yourself
Speaker 1: and to your spouse to put yourself in the other
Speaker 1: person's position and see it from their perspective. Like if
Speaker 1: we're at a dinner party, homemak a comment and maybe
Speaker 1: it's something that embarrassed me, but from his point of view,
Speaker 1: it was just funny and it got a laugh or whatever,
Speaker 1: And from my point of view, I'm embarrassed it hurt
Speaker 1: my feelings, right, And I think that that's something that
Speaker 1: Mark is really good about. Instead of like getting defensive,
Speaker 1: he'll say, you know, I didn't think that that would
Speaker 1: hurt your feelings. I'm so sorry. I did not mean
Speaker 1: to embarrass you, or I see what you mean, Like
Speaker 1: that's I think that's like something that's a very kind
Speaker 1: simple gesture. That's one of the examples of I finally
Speaker 1: am getting marriage. I think that's a good example of
Speaker 1: because I didn't used to do that, I'd get really defensive, right,
Speaker 1: I'd get really defensive about it. I got you know,
Speaker 1: I say everything wrong, like you know, or if I
Speaker 1: did apologize, I'd be like, I'm sorry if you're upset
Speaker 1: that I said that. Yeah, like an idiot, I would
Speaker 1: think that was smart, a smart thing to say somebody else.
Speaker 1: One of our other couples said that anybody who says
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if that upset you was just full of shit. Right.
Speaker 1: They don't mean it all they're all they're doing is saying,
Speaker 1: you know, you are painting the ass you're feeling sorry upset.
Speaker 1: But a real i'm sorry is I'm sorry. I said
Speaker 1: that I'm sorry if it upset, right, And anytime you're
Speaker 1: coming from a place of I'm so selfless, i am
Speaker 1: sacrificing so much. Yeah, that is narcissistic thinking. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: really have to think. And sometimes I'll like I'll come
Speaker 1: up turn on and go, Okay, I'm totally looking for
Speaker 1: some um, some attention, and I'm being completely selfish right now,
Speaker 1: but I need I need some attention. I'll I'll, I'll
Speaker 1: call myself out and say, I know this is going
Speaker 1: to sound crazy, but I just need you to like
Speaker 1: humor me for a minute. And she does. If you
Speaker 1: can tell your spouse what you need in the moment,
Speaker 1: it is the most helpful thing because, by the way,
Speaker 1: married people or people looking to get married, nobody's a
Speaker 1: psychic marriage is like a roller coaster ride, right, it
Speaker 1: really is. And there's these high highs and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is great, that's tickling in my stomach, feels amazing,
Speaker 1: and then you and then you like sync down to
Speaker 1: the depths and you go through things and you're scared.
Speaker 1: We've often said like, if we had gotten divorced, like
Speaker 1: so many times over things that at the time seemed
Speaker 1: like a huge deal, we would have missed out on
Speaker 1: so much life and incredible moments and fun and some
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we are enjoying like our adult
Speaker 1: lives now is like when all of our friends were
Speaker 1: going out and like out on the town and taking
Speaker 1: impromptu trips to tropical islands. We had small babies and toddlers,
Speaker 1: and we were tired and exhausted, and we would be
Speaker 1: sometimes short with each other, not really kind to each other,
Speaker 1: and we were not like taking the time for each other,
Speaker 1: and that could have easily frayed our marriage, and we
Speaker 1: could have easily turned on each other. But instead it's
Speaker 1: sort of we were just fortunate enough and we listened
Speaker 1: to each other just enough. I used to leave the
Speaker 1: lid off the toothpaste, which drove him crazy, and I
Speaker 1: realized I was starting to do it deliberately to drive
Speaker 1: him crazy. And then one day I said, Okay, are
Speaker 1: we going to have a nice marriage? Are we going
Speaker 1: to be dramatic all the time? Put the fucking lid on.
Speaker 1: Put the lid on the toothpaste, you said yourself, yes,
Speaker 1: put it on, Kelly, it's not rocket science. Put the
Speaker 1: just twisted on. You're you're leaving it off. Deliver I was.
Speaker 1: I remember the moment I had that conversation in my
Speaker 1: own head where I said, go back and put that on,
Speaker 1: because it's going to it's going to dictate what kind
Speaker 1: of a day you have. You're going to either have
Speaker 1: a good day or a bad day by that gesture.
Speaker 1: When I think about some of the things that we've
Speaker 1: argued about in our life and where we've like, that's it,
Speaker 1: We're getting divorced. And and he's always like he last,
Speaker 1: he laughs at me whenever I said that, He's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: we're getting Okay, I'll see you at the divorce court.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is when you go off like that,
Speaker 1: or when you did go yeah like that, he was
Speaker 1: the one that would sort of say, oh, come on, yeah,
Speaker 1: come down, you're the colm down, you're the peacemaker. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I think So it's those things that I find, like
Speaker 1: when we've settled into our like our happy place where
Speaker 1: we are now so many years later, decades later, right,
Speaker 1: I find that the fact that I autonomously clean up
Speaker 1: after myself, I am on time for him. I do
Speaker 1: it for him, but I've also done it for myself now, right,
Speaker 1: And he does things that I know didn't always come
Speaker 1: naturally to him. But he does it now, like you
Speaker 1: figured out that I love guardenias and they always come.
Speaker 1: There's never any reason, they just they show up once
Speaker 1: a week. He sends them to me just to let
Speaker 1: me know that he's thinking of me. And I remember
Speaker 1: the first time you sent them to me. I was
Speaker 1: I just thought that I had I thought he was
Speaker 1: about to tell me he had a secret other family
Speaker 1: because I thought, oh, well, I said, these guardenias are
Speaker 1: so extraordinary. He's going to tell me he's had a
Speaker 1: child out of wedlocked during our marriage. That's the one
Speaker 1: thing we didn't touch on, and it is jealousy. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're both so frigging good looking. I don't have a
Speaker 1: jealous bone in my body, which is which is good.
Speaker 1: But he can be jealous, which is it's I'm always
Speaker 1: so sort of um, I'm shocked. I'm sort of shocked
Speaker 1: by it because I'm somebody that I would not consider
Speaker 1: that somebody would get jealous about. You know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: jealousy is not really so much about what the other
Speaker 1: person does. Yeah, I get your own thing and it
Speaker 1: feels horrible. Are you both jealous? Well? I am, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She did a movie with Chris Gristrafferson. Oh wow, oh wow.
Speaker 1: So in the middle of the night, I believe this.
Speaker 1: So I'm sound asleep and I hear this banging on
Speaker 1: the door. I'm thinking about, Oh no, Christ, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be up like in an hour, you know, like four
Speaker 1: thirty or something whatever it was. And I get opened
Speaker 1: the door and there's Phil. And the minute I saw him,
Speaker 1: I thought, he thinks, Chris Christofferson's here, that's that he
Speaker 1: would talk. I opened the door, I said, come in.
Speaker 1: I was so mad at him because I have I
Speaker 1: had like another full hour right now. You know, I
Speaker 1: can't go to see first all. I'm aggravated that he
Speaker 1: would think that I aggravated. And I'm excited and here
Speaker 1: and you're here, and and he walks in, he goes,
Speaker 1: I just you know, I just missed you. Wait so
Speaker 1: wait Phil, Okay, so let's get into it quickly. What if,
Speaker 1: oh god, what if you come to the door and
Speaker 1: Chris Christofferson is there? What happens? Is there a fistfight?
Speaker 1: What happens? I would probably walk out? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you would run. I think I would have never seen
Speaker 1: you again. Yeah wow, yeah, you see, with Mark, there
Speaker 1: would be crimes scene tape. There would be like police
Speaker 1: barricades and there'd be a whole right, yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you you did that a few times here I would
Speaker 1: show up, he would show up, and and I remember
Speaker 1: one time I looked at him and I said, aren't
Speaker 1: you tired of catching me here actually doing what I'm
Speaker 1: saying I'm doing. I was doing a show in Boston,
Speaker 1: and there's no we were We didn't have cell phones
Speaker 1: at the time, right, And I couldn't get ahold of
Speaker 1: her all day, and I got a really bad feeling,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, it's horrible. And so unfortunately there are
Speaker 1: flights to New York from Boston every hour, and I
Speaker 1: got her finally on the you know how they used
Speaker 1: to have this on the on the plane, and so
Speaker 1: she said, you sound funny. I'm like, nah, you sound fine.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just the phone. He said, what are
Speaker 1: you doing tonight? It was a Friday night. Were you
Speaker 1: married or not married? We're married. What are you doing tonight?
Speaker 1: I said, believe it or not, I'm cleaning the toilets.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was cleaning. So he for some
Speaker 1: reason thought that sounded very fishing. You didn't tell you
Speaker 1: on the plane. No, he wanted to catch me love this.
Speaker 1: It's like I came in very much like, hey, what's
Speaker 1: going on? So happy to see me? No, he tells
Speaker 1: the doorman. He goes tell the call up to the
Speaker 1: apartment and tell her that there's a flower delivery. And
Speaker 1: and I was like a flower delivery. And I'm so
Speaker 1: excited because I'm thinking, oh my gosh, he's sending me flowers.
Speaker 1: This is so nice. And I'm not kidding. I have
Speaker 1: like a Johnny mop in one hand. I'm wearing a bathrobe.
Speaker 1: I am. I am a disaster. I'm not how I
Speaker 1: want my husband to see me when he gets home
Speaker 1: from like his movie set. And I opened the door
Speaker 1: and it's him and he comes in. He doesn't even
Speaker 1: say hello to me. He's looking for something and I go, right,
Speaker 1: I go, what do you? And I'm still looking for
Speaker 1: the flower guy. I was like, there's a guy coming flowers.
Speaker 1: It's a horrible feeling. It's Oh, I'm less I wouldn't
Speaker 1: you say I'm less jealous these days? Oh my gosh. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as this perfect marriage. It's the
Speaker 1: crazy stuff that you get through together that makes it
Speaker 1: all the worthwhile. That's Kelly RiPP and Marknzuelos. It's great
Speaker 1: how they still seem to surprise each other. Well, it'd
Speaker 1: be pretty boring if there were no surprises. That's why
Speaker 1: I married you. Until next time. I'm Phil Donna here
Speaker 1: and I'm Marlo Thomas. Anyway, I know you're leaving tomorrow.
Speaker 1: You must be having a romantic night tonight. So no,
Speaker 1: not having a romantic night. But we're done to one Kid,
Speaker 1: double day. There's a production of Pushkin Industries. The show
Speaker 1: was created by US and produced by Sarah Lily. Michael
Speaker 1: Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to
Speaker 1: Be You by Cellwagon, Simfinette, Marlo and I are executive
Speaker 1: producers along with Me and Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jacob Wiseburg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars,
Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rosdek, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams,
Speaker 1: and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.