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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. As I have warned you, my moods

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Speaker 1: are defined many Sundays and Mondays by how the Miami

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Speaker 1: Hurricanes are doing, so you can only imagine what my

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Speaker 1: personal mood is in I will get to my football weekend.

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Speaker 1: The only quick thing I'll say up top is my

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Speaker 1: third straight weekend traveling for football, and let's just say

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Speaker 1: I hit my first travel glitch. I was on a

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Speaker 1: nice run there where nothing was happened. I was a

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Speaker 1: little nervous that this would be glitchy. The government shut

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Speaker 1: down because we have these poor TSA agents are working

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Speaker 1: without knowing if they're going to get a paycheck on time,

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Speaker 1: and air traffic controllers so the idea of sickouts longer lines.

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Speaker 1: Although that was true, then you hit the old mechanical issue.

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Speaker 1: I'm in a small airport, so you know there's not

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Speaker 1: many alternatives when you run into those things. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was pushing the travel karma luck with my three

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Speaker 1: straight weekends there, so perhaps perhaps I should be lucky

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't too bad and survivable. Before I get

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Speaker 1: and I will share some football. Of course, Today's Monday,

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Speaker 1: I got my podcast time machine. We're going to go

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Speaker 1: back to October nineteen ninety one, probably the single most

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Speaker 1: televised Senate hearing in my lifetime. I might argue it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting debate we can have on that. I will

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Speaker 1: get to that in a few minutes, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to begin by the way. My guest today, actually Dovetail's

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Speaker 1: really well with some of the things I want to

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Speaker 1: say here at the top before we get to test

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Speaker 1: my guest. My guess is David Holt. He's the Republican

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Speaker 1: mayor of Oklahoma City, but he's also the president of

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Speaker 1: the US Conference of Mayors. This is essentially not I

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Speaker 1: don't want to call it the trade Association, but it's

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Speaker 1: an as. It's the association of mayors. They do work together.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of more similar to the National Governors Association,

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Speaker 1: but the national governors they're not getting very along very

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Speaker 1: well in a bipartisan way. It's become very polarizing, looks

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Speaker 1: more like our Washington politics. But the mayors still operate

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Speaker 1: a bit more as technocrats, and they're not necessarily as

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Speaker 1: harshly d and R and there is sort of this, hey,

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Speaker 1: they're all kind of fighting for the same type of

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Speaker 1: action from the Feds and the same type of action

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Speaker 1: from their governors. And so in many ways they work

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Speaker 1: pretty well together. But there's another reason they work well together,

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Speaker 1: and it dovetails with where I think things stand right

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Speaker 1: now with the government shutdown. You know, David hole will

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Speaker 1: tell you that he as mayor of Oklahom City, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of mayors, they have to face all primary voters.

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Speaker 1: They face all voters in their primary. There is no

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Speaker 1: partisan Most big city mayors, most urban metro mayors, and

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Speaker 1: especially in the county executive level, I say most, quite

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Speaker 1: a few are elected officially in nonpartisan races. It means is, look,

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Speaker 1: if you're really political junkie, you're paying huge enough attention.

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Speaker 1: There's virtue signaling. You'll have the local Democratic Party in

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Speaker 1: the local Republican party stating their preferences, but on the

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Speaker 1: ballot there is no party. Everybody in the city, in

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Speaker 1: the within the lines votes and you'll hear David Holt

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Speaker 1: make the argument it's why you don't see many polarizing

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Speaker 1: mayors right because, first of all, potholes, there's no red

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Speaker 1: pothole or blue pothole, right, There's just a crappy bottle

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Speaker 1: that you got to fill. There's so there's you know,

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Speaker 1: recycle when the garbages have picked up, when the cycling's

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Speaker 1: not picked up. You know, unless you're some you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't. You don't see mayors out there right if

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Speaker 1: if if Donald Trump were weaponizing mayors, he'd be like

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Speaker 1: only picking up the garbage and the red neighborhoods, but

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Speaker 1: not the blue neighborhoods. You don't have that. Perhaps that

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Speaker 1: happened during the machine days of of of Chicago and

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Speaker 1: New York back in the Boss Tweed days or the

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Speaker 1: day of the original Daily Machine, but this is not

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Speaker 1: how mayors operate today. They couldn't operate that day. There's

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Speaker 1: really no tolerance for it by voters, which makes it

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Speaker 1: very frustrating that we have such tolerance for this kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior on the federal level on the state level.

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Speaker 1: But there's one giant difference, as David Holt will tell you,

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Speaker 1: it is your voter incentive. If you're facing all voters,

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Speaker 1: then you're going to feel as if you've got to

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Speaker 1: be representative of the broad sixty to seventy percent of

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Speaker 1: your electorate. If you're essentially primary elect primarily elected in

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Speaker 1: your primary, then you only have to worry about a

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Speaker 1: much smaller faction and a much more ideological part of

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Speaker 1: your base of your electorate, which gets brings me to

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Speaker 1: the government shutdown? Right, we're starting, We're getting more polling.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna it is what we've seen, and look, I

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Speaker 1: wish there'd be more consistent ways of asking these questions.

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Speaker 1: There's no I think on this one, there's no right

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Speaker 1: way you do you ask, you know who's blame for

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Speaker 1: the shutdown? Do you give three punches or excuse me,

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Speaker 1: four punches to the Congressional Democrats, Congressional Republicans, Donald Trump, everybody?

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Speaker 1: Do you do three punches congressional Democrats, Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: congressional Republicans both for everybody? So there's not a I

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Speaker 1: could argue both sides of that case. I think for

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Speaker 1: now it really feels as if, because they're politically sticking together,

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Speaker 1: you have the congressional Democrats and you have President Trump

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Speaker 1: and congressional Republicans. And what you're seeing is, while there

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Speaker 1: certainly is a slight a slight plurality in most of

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Speaker 1: the polling giving more blame to the Republicans and the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: it's not a slam dup. And there's a good chunk

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Speaker 1: of voters depending on that, you can find the poll

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Speaker 1: anywhere from twenty five to in the low thirties who

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Speaker 1: blame everybody or are not sure who to blame. But

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty big of voters. And so, but the

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Speaker 1: question in this current situation is who are the people

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Speaker 1: negotiating listening to a Keem Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer. Who

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Speaker 1: do they care most about the voters that are blaming

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Speaker 1: both sides or the thirty percent of Democrats that are

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Speaker 1: happy that they're fighting. And who's Donald Trump and the

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Speaker 1: congressional Republicans worried about the thirty percent that are blaming everybody.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the thirty percent that are blaming them. By the way,

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Speaker 1: about about twenty eight to thirty percent blame their Democrats.

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Speaker 1: They're mostly Republicans, right, Are they worried about that or

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Speaker 1: are they worried about the twenty eight to thirty percent

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Speaker 1: that blame the Democrats? And essentially, you know their base

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Speaker 1: and they want to continue to stoke the base. And

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Speaker 1: my concern is right now that the incentives, right, the

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Speaker 1: incentives are for everybody here to be listening to their bases.

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Speaker 1: There is not an incentive here to listen to the

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Speaker 1: middle because I think the rock and the hard place.

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Speaker 1: Here's the Problemocrats have the ask, the supposed ask that

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Speaker 1: is on the table to end this shutdown, which is

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Speaker 1: some form of the continuation of subsidies for healthcare Obamacare specifically.

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Speaker 1: It's basically Republicans have said, yes, we want to negotiate

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Speaker 1: on this. They've not ruled out doing it. They're not

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Speaker 1: agreed on you know, would it be just a full extension,

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Speaker 1: would it be you know, some certain people cut out.

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Speaker 1: But the point is, if the Democrats wanted to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we got what we wanted, and more importantly, we've got

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Speaker 1: another deadline to hold them in check, they can declare

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Speaker 1: victory right now. But it wouldn't satisfy. I understand why

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Speaker 1: they're not doing it, though I might if they're asking

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Speaker 1: my advice, I might do it, and I would do

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Speaker 1: it because I think right now the weaponization that Russell

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Speaker 1: Voight is doing, you know, and I do sense that

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Speaker 1: some Democrats think, hey, Donald Trump and Russell Voight will

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Speaker 1: will will go too far in their sort of targeted

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Speaker 1: cuts at democratic priorities or trying to harm democratic voters.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I one of the things I'd like

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Speaker 1: to mention, I believe Donald Trump got more actual voters

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Speaker 1: out of LA County than he did Idaho. So when

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Speaker 1: you're punishing you know that. This is what really frustrates

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Speaker 1: me about the way these folks think currently in Washington

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Speaker 1: is that they want to quote unquote punish the Blue states.

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Speaker 1: He's got a lot of supporters in the Blue states.

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Speaker 1: Some of these blue states are to our most populous

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Speaker 1: Blue states, and so there's actual So he's punishing in

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Speaker 1: some cases, he's punishing his own voters because a majority

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Speaker 1: of those voters live in because those voters happen to

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Speaker 1: live in a state that voted for Kamala Harris. You

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Speaker 1: see why this is such frankly bad governance and why

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Speaker 1: I think it's self defeating in the long run. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what they're hoping to accomplish that somehow, these

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Speaker 1: Republican voters who will suffer, you know, due to what

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Speaker 1: a Republican administration is doing by targeting these blue states.

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Speaker 1: The is the goal to get these Republicans to leave

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Speaker 1: the blue states right move to the red states. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to crawl inside Russell voys head or Steven

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Speaker 1: Miller said, but I'm not going to say that that

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Speaker 1: probably hasn't crossed either of their minds. But I do

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Speaker 1: think these little targeted things, frankly, some of them are

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Speaker 1: probably going to be illegal, and some of them are

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Speaker 1: probably going to get not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: survive a court challenge.

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Speaker 2: But it is.

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Speaker 1: It is where we are at the moment, and so

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Speaker 1: that's the say you know that this is where I

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Speaker 1: still I think we're going. I'm on the record and

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Speaker 1: my newsphere show saying I believe this this shutdown ends

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Speaker 1: before the end of this week. Now, am I going

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Speaker 1: to stretch it and say by Sunday rather than Friday.

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Speaker 1: We'll see. But we are getting to the first missed paycheck,

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Speaker 1: which will be coming up basically in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the month thirteen fourteen, fifteenth pay period, we'll be coming

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Speaker 1: to an end. And that is going to be first

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Speaker 1: of all, you'll have a missed paycheck of congressional staffers.

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Speaker 1: That's an issue. Yes, they're going to get back paid,

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Speaker 1: but that might be a way to remind their bosses.

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Speaker 1: I already told you the other day about how the

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Speaker 1: last shutdown essentially ended. Thanks to sickouts of air traffic

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Speaker 1: controllers and TSA agents who were not thrilled with the

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Speaker 1: idea that they were having to work without knowing for

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Speaker 1: sure when they were going to get paid next. So

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Speaker 1: if you look at the actual demands that have been made,

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Speaker 1: if the Democrats wanted a clear victory, they can. The

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Speaker 1: problem is they don't know how to communicate this to

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Speaker 1: their base. And you know, Schumer's had a tough time

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Speaker 1: communicating this to the base. I think he's been not

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Speaker 1: the best spokesperson to have on this. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're wondering what Mike Johnson is up to, why

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Speaker 1: he decided to keep the house out, they're jamming the Senate,

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Speaker 1: you know in his mind is he doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: have to hold another vote. It's very hard to get

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Speaker 1: all of his Republicans. So he's got a cleaed cr

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Speaker 1: out the door. And it's like, you guys figure it

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Speaker 1: out in the Senate. And so by staying out of town,

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Speaker 1: he accomplishes a couple things. One, he makes sure his

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Speaker 1: members aren't around where reporters can find them, and they

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Speaker 1: end up saying dumb things that get them in political trouble.

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Speaker 1: So he's kind of doing it to protect the messaging here.

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Speaker 1: There are just fewer wild card members of Congress, so

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Speaker 1: you know, strategically, I think I understand where he's coming from.

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Speaker 1: But mostly this is a hey, this is a Senate issue,

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Speaker 1: and you guys have to handle this pure and simple

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Speaker 1: and really there are you know, this is the thing.

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Speaker 1: There are two ways this could get resolved in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is Republicans can end this tomorrow. If

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Speaker 1: they really wanted to open the government, they'd have to

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Speaker 1: get rid of the filibuster. But they have fifty votes

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Speaker 1: to do this. That would be consequential. It is pretty

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Speaker 1: clear John Thune has said he doesn't want to go

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Speaker 1: there at all. For what it's worth, there's a small

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Speaker 1: little growing I don't want to say it's disgruntlement among

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Speaker 1: Senate Republicans with Thune, but there's a bunch of Senate

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Speaker 1: Republicans that wish Thune could protect them more the filibuster. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: sticking with the filibuster is one way to protect them.

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Speaker 1: But what do I mean by protect them? There are

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Speaker 1: votes that they have to cast publicly in support of

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Speaker 1: the MAGA movement or Donald Trump that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to have to cast three of them in particular, were

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Speaker 1: really tough for them to cast those confirmation votes for

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Speaker 1: in particular for Pete hag Seth and Bobby Kennedy Junior.

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Speaker 1: And that is something where there are some Republican centers,

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Speaker 1: not all, not a majority, but a couple who think

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Speaker 1: Thune could have done more to protect them from having

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Speaker 1: to make that vote and could have killed it right

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Speaker 1: that he could have worked behind the scenes, uh and

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Speaker 1: done that. I'm not sure to be fair to to

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Speaker 1: to to John Thune on this one. You know, he

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Speaker 1: was he he got the job despite MAGA skepticism of him.

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Speaker 1: I think deep down there's a whole bunch of folks

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Speaker 1: in magaworld who know he's not really one of them.

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Speaker 1: And he did have Rick Scott sitting out there who

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Speaker 1: was sort of waiting to pounce. And there could have

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Speaker 1: easily been a sort of a Grasstops uprising on the

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Speaker 1: on the in the in the sort of Internet mega

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Speaker 1: movement that could have made Thune's life miserable had he

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Speaker 1: held up some of these confirmations.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not sure it was.

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Speaker 1: It's as easy said and done, but there is just

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Speaker 1: you're starting to see fatigue among republic Senate Republicans, the

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Speaker 1: terriff issue is really starting to take a toll, particularly

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Speaker 1: in the Midwestern states, and the farm guys are really

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Speaker 1: struggling with this. In fact, I've got a couple of

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Speaker 1: little updates I'm going to give you later as soon

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Speaker 1: as I'm done with the with with where I think

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Speaker 1: this government shutdown is going. But at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, that the Democratic dilemma really is, it does

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Speaker 1: come down to they're gonna They're gonna have to disappoint

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Speaker 1: They're gonna they're gonna cave here at some point, Right,

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Speaker 1: they have to.

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Speaker 2: They have to. They have to sort of get to yes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if health if Obamacare subsidies, and I

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Speaker 1: guess this is what they have to admit if they

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Speaker 1: don't say yes to the Republicans agreement to basically saying yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're willing to have a negotiation on this. Is this

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Speaker 1: really why they're doing this or are they doing this

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Speaker 1: because there's some pent up frustration on the left that

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Speaker 1: the Democrats have shown no ability to slow Trump down. Right,

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Speaker 1: the courts are not really you know, the courts have

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Speaker 1: done better than most. Right, we have what's going on

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Speaker 1: in organ right now. That's not an insignificant moment. And

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Speaker 1: Steven Miller's bizarre, anti unconstitutional reaction to this, to attack

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Speaker 1: a Trump appointed judge by the way, as an insurrectionist.

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Speaker 2: Is just shocking.

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Speaker 1: I know, we're not we never get shocked anymore by

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Speaker 1: some of the language that Stephen Miller uses on social media.

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Speaker 1: But it should be quite alarming to the entire judiciary,

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Speaker 1: and it's not helpful and he ought to be actually

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Speaker 1: read the opinion. I apologize for digressing on this. You

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Speaker 1: got to read the opinion from the judge in Oregon.

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Speaker 1: Essentially the judges saying Donald Trump's words are don'te mad

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Speaker 1: what you guys are saying in your court filings and

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Speaker 1: what you're claiming here, and essentially what he's saying is

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Speaker 1: undermining the entire rationale that Stephen Miller was inventing to

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Speaker 1: try to get the military in the National Guard in

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Speaker 1: some of these cities, in Portland in particular. So I

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Speaker 1: don't it sort of is amusing to me that Miller

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Speaker 1: doesn't realize his own words are also making an appeal

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Speaker 1: that much harder to win because we see what the

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Speaker 1: real motivation is. I mean, they are trying to incite

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Speaker 1: a confrontation. They want a violent confrontation between protesters, ICE

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Speaker 1: agents and the National Guard. It appears that's what they're

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Speaker 1: looking for, and they're using the ruse of you know

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Speaker 1: it is really disconcerting and it's you know one, it

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Speaker 1: feels like they're looking for any excuse to just ramp

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Speaker 1: up enforcement, and that is something we ought to be

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Speaker 1: concerned about here.

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Speaker 2: We need to have peaceful protesting.

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Speaker 1: We shouldn't be physically attacking ICE agents, but ICE agents

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Speaker 1: ought to be acting in a constitutional method. I do

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Speaker 1: think the face masks are menacing and it has created

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Speaker 1: a very untenable situation. Everybody needs to ratchet things down

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Speaker 1: here and we need to turn the temperature down. This

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Speaker 1: Portland judge was trying to do that, but it does

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Speaker 1: not seem as if that was the message that was

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Speaker 1: received there. But going back to the shutdown politics here,

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Oregon and what's happening there is also

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Speaker 1: having an impact on the frustrated progressive base that feels

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Speaker 1: as if the democratics aren't fighting enough, and so if

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Speaker 1: the government has been shut down over OBAMACA subsidies, well

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Speaker 1: there's a path here but is this really why Democrats

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Speaker 1: force this confrontation? It's it is starting to look that

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Speaker 1: obviously that I think it's obvious. Now this was what's

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Speaker 1: the best thing you could say to swing voters as

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Speaker 1: to why you shut down the government, Oh, Obamacare subsidies,

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Speaker 1: But that is not what the progressive base is interested.

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Speaker 1: And sure they'll certainly be happy that if this is done,

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Speaker 1: but it's not going to be seen as a victory.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, I've seen some Democrats argue, leave it

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Speaker 1: to congressional Democrats to help Republicans minimize their problems in

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Speaker 1: the electioneer meaning by by advance by agreeing to an

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Speaker 1: extension of Obamacare subsidies, with the Republicans forcing them to

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Speaker 1: do this. Now you're saying, you're taking the issue off

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Speaker 1: the table for twenty twenty six. But this of course

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Speaker 1: gets to are you there to govern or are you

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Speaker 1: there to pundicize and just politicize everything? Right, And that

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Speaker 1: gets back to the same thing I was talking about

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Speaker 1: the other day, which is the adult in.

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Speaker 2: The room vote.

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Speaker 1: All Right, maybe the adult in the room voter is

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Speaker 1: not a base Republican voter, and it is not a

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Speaker 1: base Democratic voter, but the voter that's looking for The

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Speaker 1: adult party is the one that says, oh, okay, use

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Speaker 1: this moment to do something that helps everybody, versus no,

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Speaker 1: take advantage of this moment, exploit it so that you

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Speaker 1: can gain political power, which is what the base wants.

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Speaker 1: By the way, both bases want, they want their leaders

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Speaker 1: to exploit situations to get more power. And that is

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Speaker 1: arguably the fundamental divide we're living in right now in

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Speaker 1: American politics. And it goes back to the incentive structures

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Speaker 1: that elected officials have with the voters that they have

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Speaker 1: to deal with, which is a fitting way. It's a

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Speaker 1: fitting way for this conversation that I'm a a half

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Speaker 1: later with the mayor of Oklahoma City, the Republican Mary

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Speaker 1: of Oklahoma City, David Hole. There's a reason results matter

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Speaker 1: more than promises, just like there's a reason Morgan and

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Speaker 1: Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. For the last

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Speaker 1: thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for

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Speaker 1: more than half a million clients. It includes cases where

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Speaker 1: insurance companies offered next to nothing, just hoping to get

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Speaker 1: away with paying as little as possible. Morgan and Morgan

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Speaker 1: fought back ended up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: one client was awarded twenty six million dollars, which was

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Speaker 1: a staggering forty times the amount that the insurance company

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Speaker 1: originally offered. That original offer six hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer. You need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot Com, Slash podcast or

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Speaker 1: now pound Law, Pound five to two nine law on

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Speaker 1: your cell phone. And remember all law firms are not

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Speaker 1: the same, So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee

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Speaker 1: is free unless they win. Let me move on to

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Speaker 1: a few other items here from the weekend. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I had somebody right in to the my LinkedIn toodcast

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Speaker 1: profile to say they thought I should. They wanted me

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Speaker 1: to call my hot takes hot totty Takes, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: my problem is is that I'm not very good at

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Speaker 1: like the thirty second hot take, right, I'm not very

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Speaker 1: good at giving you the stephen A. Smith BS argument

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Speaker 1: of the day, right, the invented argument about the Dallas Cowboys,

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Speaker 1: good or bad?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: So it is, it is sort of, it is sort

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Speaker 1: of not my favorite thing. But there's a three headlines

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Speaker 1: I want to get to before we get to the

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Speaker 1: interview with David Holt. One is we are really now

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Speaker 1: starting to see particularly this is the beginning of a

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Speaker 1: new quarter financially right for just about any sort of business,

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Speaker 1: which means this is a big period where we're going

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Speaker 1: to see increased to cost. There was an important article

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Speaker 1: in the Financial Times that I didn't want people to miss.

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Speaker 1: This is based on data from the Bureau of Labor

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Speaker 1: Statistics in the six months going through August from August

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Speaker 1: in the six months previous ending in August, so far,

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Speaker 1: prices for audio equipment have risen by fourteen percent. Prices

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Speaker 1: for dresses are up eight percent. Tools, hardware and other

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Speaker 1: supplies in that under that umbrella are already have risen

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Speaker 1: by five percent. Because most of those goods are important.

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Speaker 1: And what happened was you had a lot of small

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Speaker 1: businesses and large businesses by products before the tariff's kicked in.

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Speaker 1: They built up some inventories, but those inventories are now gone.

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Speaker 1: And so now we're starting to see the price increases

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Speaker 1: are going in starting in October. For instance, Ashley Furniture,

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Speaker 1: so you've probably heard of Ashley Fern. They're the world's

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Speaker 1: largest furniture manufacturer. They've already they put a notice in

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Speaker 1: an industry publication called home News. Now again this is

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Speaker 1: a courtesy of my friends at the Financial Times, that

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Speaker 1: they planned to raise prices for a majority of their

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Speaker 1: products from three and a half to twelve percent starting yesterday. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so this is what I mean when in the sort

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Speaker 1: of the quarter kicks in and you're going to see

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Speaker 1: new decisions on pricing. And this is where the tariffs

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Speaker 1: get put in. The car parts retailer AutoZone, they already

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Speaker 1: have indicated to and lists that there's probably going to

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Speaker 1: be more price rises as the full impact of tariffs

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Speaker 1: go in.

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Speaker 2: I've told you about.

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Speaker 1: Coffee price says they continue to surge because of the

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Speaker 1: fifty of the fifty percent tariffs that have been applied

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Speaker 1: to Brazil over the president's obsession with Despite proclaiming that

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Speaker 1: they're American first and they're not going to get involved

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Speaker 1: in anybody else's politics, they don't get involved in anybody

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Speaker 1: else's politics, unless they care about everybody else's politics in

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Speaker 1: this case because of the whole Bolsonnarow situation there. And

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Speaker 1: here's something where there's these hidden tariff costs in everything

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Speaker 1: that you have at the grocery store. Tariffs on imported

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Speaker 1: tin plate steel is also driving up the price of

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Speaker 1: food cans. So even if the product the progresso soup,

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Speaker 1: the Goya beans, even if the food itself is produced here,

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Speaker 1: the tin can, the can that is in your grocery

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Speaker 1: store costs more and they've had to raise the price

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Speaker 1: of that it is. And I have one other thing

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Speaker 1: where we have a tariff impact, and that is the

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Speaker 1: issue of soybeans. And this comes from the Lincoln Journal

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Speaker 1: Star of the weekend. They have had a fifty two

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Speaker 1: percent drop. This is just through June, Okay, Nebraska soybean experts,

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Speaker 1: we're down fifteen percent. Overall, there's been a drop in

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Speaker 1: exports to China of fifty two percent. This is why

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Speaker 1: the farmers are reeling right now, particularly soybean farmers. And

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Speaker 1: guess what, you grow soybeans all.

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Speaker 2: Over the country.

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Speaker 1: So this is a lot of states that are being

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Speaker 1: impacted by this. This is why Donald Trump's talking about

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Speaker 1: some sort of rebate. But do keep in mind as

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Speaker 1: the right tries to call tries to take this the

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Speaker 1: Democratic socialist Johan Mamdani and essentially use it to define

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party as socialists. The person executing socialist like

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Speaker 1: policies right now is Donald Trump right in order. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's you know, basically having to pay farmers to to

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Speaker 1: for for crops that are not going to get used. Right.

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Speaker 1: But that is that's government support. That is a form,

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Speaker 1: you know, by any other name. Let's see, if it

433
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: were a democratic administration doing this, you would hear some

434
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: conservatives crying socialism on this. And of course I haven't

435
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: gotten into Intel and some of the other stuff that

436
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: we've already seen that there is certainly we've heard. I mean,

437
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: the Ken Griffin, the head of the large, the large

438
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: private equity fund, the Citadel, he's gotten really vocal about this.

439
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: He does not like what the Trump administration has been doing,

440
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: how quickly they get involved in private enterprise and sort

441
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 1: of put their finger on the scales, picking winners and losers,

442
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: where whether it's who gets to own TikTok intel, what

443
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: Navidia is doing with with chips to China and things

444
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: like this. So it is again, as we start name

445
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: calling everybody doing the socialists and the fascists and all

446
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: this left right name calling, just realize on the issue

447
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: of socialism, Donald Trump has his own form of it

448
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: that he is executing right now. Socialism for the business world,

449
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: socialism for constituency groups that he believes are important to him.

450
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: On that front. Two other notes out there. One, Japan

451
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: is going to have its first female prime minister. I

452
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: do think it's worth noting that the first woman to

453
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: break through and break that glass ceiling is somebody who's

454
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: more conservative, somebody who's more hawkish, somebody who's on the right,

455
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: somebody who's feeling to conservatives, somebody who calls Maggie Thatcher

456
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: one of her heroes. It's it's interesting when when we've

457
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: seen West Western like democracies elect their you know, break

458
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: the gender glass ceiling. Uh, it does seem as if

459
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: because the most skeptical voters of women in executive office

460
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: are usually on the right, having a woman come from

461
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: the right is sometimes the faster path of getting a

462
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: woman in leadership. Again, see Maggie Thatcher on that front.

463
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: Does that is this yet another indication that when America

464
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: elects its first woman president, she's more likely to be

465
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: from stage right than stage left. Anyway, I just throw

466
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: that out there. It's it's uh, it's my that's my belief.

467
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, it's a trajectory we're on at the moment.

468
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the political world couldn't change here a

469
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: little bit, but in the moment that we're in, I think, uh,

470
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: I think that's more likely. And look, Japan is a

471
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: much more male dominated society than our society, so it's

472
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: pretty notable that they're breaking this glass eilum before we

473
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: are as well. Just something to something to think about there,

474
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for the government shutdown, the fact that

475
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: there is a very dubious claim that the president is

476
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: making in order to bomb these these boats coming out

477
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: of Venezuela, claiming that these are terrorists, claiming that this

478
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: is self defense. There is really this. It's it's a

479
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: political trap that they are trying to set right, which is, oh,

480
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: you're you're, you're, you're trying to go soft on the

481
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: drug cartels. But there is no due process for these folks.

482
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: There is these clearly look to be illegal, These clearly

483
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: look to be unconstitutional. These definitely seem extra judicial. But

484
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: here's the more important thing. Even if if the Trump

485
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: administration finds a way to thread this where they can

486
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: claim some legality to it because they've designated these cartels

487
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: as terrorist organizations, which in and of itself is sort

488
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: of a very subjective process, and that they can somehow

489
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: make the rhetorical case these drugs that are being brought

490
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: in or killing our citizens. So it's certainly unpopular, right

491
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: what what these cartels are doing. But the example we're setting,

492
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: right we you know when you when you see a

493
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: guy like Bouquele in El Salvador, when you see a

494
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: guy like Aredwan, when you see Frankly, you know, when

495
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: we don't have we're in the United States of America,

496
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: and when we.

497
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: Don't behave.

498
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: In small d democratic ways, when we don't essentially abide

499
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: by when we don't treat everybody in the world the

500
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: same way we're supposed to treat our own citizens, things

501
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: like do process, search and seizure. Because I just want

502
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: a simple explanation, why haven't we boarded any of these boats?

503
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Wouldn't we learn a hell of a lot more information

504
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: about what these cartels are up to by actually boarding

505
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: these boats, arresting these folks, seizing the product, learning a

506
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: hell of a lot more about there, about how all

507
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: of this works, about how the routes work, about it,

508
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: how the business works, just sort of you know, showing off.

509
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just sort of life isn't a video game.

510
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: But the Secretary of Defense, Pete hag Set is out

511
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: there putting on social It seems like everything is designed

512
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: for some sort of social media virality moment. And so

513
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: he goes out there as if they're like he's, you know,

514
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: General Eisenhower executing D Day and he and he puts

515
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: up this picture satellite video of the destruction of one

516
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: of these boats, claiming that that we have the intelligence

517
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: that that confirms these folks are cartel members and they're

518
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: bringing these deadly drugs into the United States. This isn't

519
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: a game. And what we're doing is we're giving a

520
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: moral permission slip to thugs and dictators around the world

521
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: want to be thugs, want to be dictators. And we're

522
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: behaving no differently than what Europe is saying the way

523
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: Putin is behaving right now in Eastern Europe. So this

524
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: is appalling. I am sorry that there is not more

525
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: attention to this. I know politically this isn't easy, because

526
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, it is is our constitution, all of our rights,

527
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: all of laws are done to protect sometimes some morally

528
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: questionable people. Okay, but that's the whole point of our constitutions,

529
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: the whole point of our system, innocent until proven guilty.

530
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: And when we don't behave that way around the world

531
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: all the time, and we sort of invent new ways

532
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: to kill people and claim claim some a different authority

533
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: to do.

534
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: It, it's.

535
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: It's it's not going to help us have any sort

536
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: of influence. You know, this is not what somebody who

537
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: wants to win the Nobel Peace Prize. This is not

538
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: how somebody who wants to win the Nobel Peace Prize

539
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: behaves on that for what it's worth. So it's if

540
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: what I do think of it wasn't for the government

541
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: shutdown that this this would be a bigger deal. But

542
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: you also have you know, this is what happens when

543
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: the legislative branch isn't acting as a check. This is

544
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: an important moment for the Congress to be acting as

545
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: a check. I'm hearing all sorts of complaints from my

546
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: sources on Capitol Hill, but none of them want to

547
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: go public because none of them want to look like

548
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: they're on the side of Maduro in Venezuela or on

549
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: the side of the drug cartels. But the fact of

550
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: the matter is every part of this policy, every part

551
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: of this policy is arguably unconstitutional. Every single thing that

552
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: they've done so far is unconstitutional, and there has not

553
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: been any serious attempt to do oversight on this, to

554
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: check into this zero zip zilch. I want to close

555
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: before I get to David Holt with a really disturbing

556
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: story out of the Virginia Attorney General's race, the Cratic nominee.

557
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: This is just for Attorney General J Jones. Screenshots of

558
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: some private text messages that he sent in twenty twenty two.

559
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: He sent these text messages to another he was in

560
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: the It was a delegate in the State Assembly at

561
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: the time in Virginia, and he sent some messages to

562
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: a Republican delegate named Carry Corner. Corner is spelled coy

563
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: n E R. Coiner. And in these texts he imagined

564
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: scenarios he doesn't like the then House Assembly Speaker Todd Gilbert,

565
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: and in these texts. Jones imagines comparing the Speaker of

566
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: the Republican Assembly Todd Gilbert, Adolf Hitler, and Paul Pott,

567
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: and he said, if he had two bullets, and those

568
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: were the three people, He said, Gilbert gets two bullets

569
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: to the head. What's this in a text message to

570
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: a fellow delegate and then they go on and he

571
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: says it's something else and had to do with a

572
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: dispute over gun policy, and he sort of fantasized about

573
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: Gilbert having to deal with a child being shot. And

574
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: he also and he texted, only when people feel pain

575
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: personally do they move on policy. And it came across

576
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: as if he was hoping Gilbert's kids that Gilbert would

577
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: experience the death of his own kids via firearms. And

578
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: then he also said things like he referred to urinating

579
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: on graves of deceased political figures. He said, if those

580
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: guys die before me, I will go to their funerals

581
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: to piss on their graves. All of this was publicized

582
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: in the National Review. What was fascinating to fault Watch

583
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: was at first Jones came out, never didn't confirm or

584
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: deny the text, just simply said people get overheated on

585
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, say crazy, you know, sometimes say weird stuff

586
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: on text. But this is being weaponized and attacked king

587
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: the National Review because they're right of center publication. I

588
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: can tell you Audrew Faulberg, who's the reporter here, as

589
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: a straight up reporter. She works in National Review, but

590
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: she is she is big jay journalists. I've known her.

591
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: I've had her on my panels previously. She's she's going

592
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: to have her ducks in a row. Well she had

593
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 1: her ducks in a row.

594
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: Very quickly.

595
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: J Jones.

596
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 2: Tune changed.

597
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: He suddenly tried to reach out to the speaker and apologize.

598
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: He was very deferential. But like in any of these things,

599
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: when you see this sort of horrible behavior and horrible

600
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: things and somebody apologizes, they're only apologizing after it was exposed, right,

601
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, he never thought to apologize to the speaker

602
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: after that Republican State assembly person, she said, this is uncomfortable.

603
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: What are you doing?

604
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, he like followed up with a

605
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: phone call to her explaining his rationale for what he

606
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: was saying at the time. So this was not this

607
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: was not a heat of the moment thing. It's causing

608
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: it is sort of one of these.

609
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 2: This is a.

610
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: Quintessential October surprise. In fact, the story hit on October second,

611
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: so welcome to October, right, and election days in November,

612
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: so it is a quintessential October surprise. In the polling

613
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: in Virginia, the governor's race has been it's the dominant race.

614
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: It is, it is, and most polling is at Abigail Spamberger,

615
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: the Democrat, over Winston Earl Sears anywhere from seven to

616
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: ten points. There's a few polls that have had Spamburger

617
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: further ahead. But the two races beneath the state wide

618
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: race for Lieutenant governor in the state Wie race for

619
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Attorney General, where j Jones is has been Democrats have

620
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: held smaller leads anywhere from four points in the in

621
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: the LG race to six points in the AG race.

622
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: J Jones been winning. Now of the three nominees for office,

623
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: Jason Mireis, the sitting Attorney General, is the only incumbent

624
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: running for the same office. Right the incombent lieutenant governors.

625
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: Winston Earl Sears, she's running for governor. So there's there's

626
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: an open race for the lieutenant governorship, an open race

627
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: for the governorship. But it's a It appears what we're

628
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: going to find out is are how strong is polarization

629
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: in Virginia? Because I could tell you this, this is

630
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: to me, what Jay Jones said is disqualifying. I imagine

631
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: many voters straight up, you take everything else out of

632
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: the equation, this would be disqualify. I am surprised there

633
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: hasn't been Democrats, a lot of Republicans calling for him

634
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: to get out of the race. I'm surprised some Democrats haven't.

635
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean, remember it wasn't that long ago when Ralph

636
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: Northam was caught doing blackfaith. It was Democrats that we're

637
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: calling on Democrat Ralph Northam to get out. Now we're

638
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: seeing and this is in many ways the Trump effect.

639
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: Right Trump, there is no the MAGA movement, never apologize

640
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: all this stuff. And you're starting to see more on

641
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: the left sort of adopt the same mindset. So there's

642
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: been condemnation of what he said, but it's been this, well,

643
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: he's got to he's got to try to earn the voters.

644
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: He's he should go out there and keep apologizing and

645
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: earn voter trust. The problem is this is a somebody

646
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: running to be a law ahead of a law enforcement agency,

647
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: and you've got these things out there, you may he

648
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: may have to prosecute somebody for a political hate crime.

649
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: This is not this back this background of his is

650
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: going to make it it's going to make it a

651
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: little bit harder for him to have to have. He

652
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: may have legal the legal ground to prosecute somebody, but

653
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: he's certainly going to struggle having some moral high grounds

654
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: depending on what the situation is. Look, there's no doubt

655
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: that there is many that wanted just to exploit anything

656
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: they can find to prove that. You know, the other

657
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: side is more violent than than our than than our

658
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: side politically, whoever our side is in the in the

659
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: in the back and forth on this, I'm would like

660
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: to see some folks just simply say violence is bad,

661
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: hard stop. Sometimes it comes too much from the right,

662
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes it comes too much from the left. I

663
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: don't want it at all, and we should be hoping

664
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: our leaders just want to turn the temperature down and

665
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: hold people accountable that are that are calling for and

666
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: exploiting violence. I'll just say politically, if the governor's race

667
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 1: were closer, I think spen Berger probably would have called

668
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: for him to get out. But I don't think she.

669
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: I don't think they think they need to. And I

670
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: think there's such a nervousness about upsetting the Democratic base,

671
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: who wants a bit more fight. And you're going to

672
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 1: see in the same way the Republican base basically used

673
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: to care about character. Then Donald Trump came along, and

674
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: there's no longer anybody that seems to hold you know,

675
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: character doesn't count on the right anymore. And watching the

676
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: left kind of I don't want to say they're rallying

677
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: around j Jones, but they're not calling for him to

678
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: get out. This is I've been sort of preaching about

679
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: this for the last few months that one of my

680
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: greater fears was was sort of the mindset, if you

681
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: can't beat them, join them, and whatever you think is

682
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: bad on the other side. But if you think it's working,

683
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: then suddenly the other side says, you know, And look,

684
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm coming from a point of view that I believe

685
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: it's the left responding to the right. I know there

686
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: are some of my conservative friends out there says no, no, no,

687
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: the right was only reacting to the left. Enough, right, that's

688
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: not the point here we are, And I do worry

689
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: we are over that each radicalizing moment only radicalizes the

690
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: other side just as much. And this is a disturbing situation.

691
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: But I'm going to be this Virginia AG race. Does

692
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: it have a trickle up effect? It's interesting. Donald Trump

693
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: could have really weaponized it and tried to harm the

694
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: top of the ticket. It was interesting that he chose

695
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: not to. He doesn't seem to be that interested in

696
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: helping Winston Earl Sears on this front. I think they

697
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: are interested in helping me rs. So he is a

698
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: bit more of I think, a a bit more Trump

699
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: friendly than she's been. But it's going to be interesting

700
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: to see, is there do you what do voters do

701
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: on this one? If you were not a fan of

702
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: the right, your center left, you're uncomfortable with what Jay

703
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: Jones did, maybe you don't like me rus what do

704
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: you do?

705
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: Do you skip the race?

706
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: It's going to be I'm going to be very cool.

707
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: Will there be fallout fall off voter? His polari is

708
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: a now so strong that this stuff doesn't matter. We're

709
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: going to find out that answer in thirty days. But

710
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: the substance of this is disturbing and it's disqualified. And

711
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: I will say I am surprised that that, And again

712
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't be surprised because we're living in such

713
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: polarized times, but it's surprising to me that that no

714
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: major Democrats are calling for Jones to get out. Look,

715
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: it would be conceding the race, and it just and

716
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: that's what you have to just sort of realize what's

717
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: happening here is that winning the race is more important

718
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: than a moral high rate. That's American politics in twenty

719
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: twenty five. With that, I'll sneak at a break and

720
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: we're going to bring in David Holt, the mayoric Oklahoma City,

721
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: and the president of the US Conference of Marriage. We'll

722
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: talk about incentives out and we have better incentives for

723
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: our politicians. Well, joining me now is the president of

724
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: the US Conference of Mayors. And if you're wondering what

725
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: is that, well, I'll tell you here in a minute.

726
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: Like every industry group, there are different types of associations,

727
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: and the mayors, in many ways, regardless of party, have

728
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: very similar challenges when it comes to dealing both with

729
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: the private sector nationally but also government on the federal level.

730
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: David Holt, the mayor of Oklahoma City, somebody i've known

731
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: for a little bit.

732
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: Is the current president of the US Conference of Marriage.

733
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: You just got to you're in the I guess halfway

734
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: point of your term?

735
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: Is that fair? But six months now? Quite? June? Third June? Okay,

736
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: I'm a quarter down? Yeah? All right?

737
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, how did I do with my

738
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: explanation of the Conference of Mayors? And how would you

739
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: describe it for my listeners and viewers?

740
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: Well, I can certainly embellish it. You did great, But

741
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: I can add to it. You know, we have almost

742
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: a century of history and all of the you know,

743
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 3: many of the mayoral names in American history that politicos

744
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: would know, from LaGuardia to Landrew to Daily I've all

745
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 3: served as president of this organization. And what I would

746
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 3: say is two things that make it unique. One, it

747
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: hasn't a really remarkable track record. Like we've been at

748
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 3: the table for some pretty significant things along the way.

749
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: When we rally the fourteen hundred mayors that we speak for,

750
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 3: obviously that's a coast to coast influence at least historically.

751
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: And like for example, when the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill was

752
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: passed and signed, we were right there first row on

753
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: the South lawn of the White House, because we absolutely

754
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: had an impact on that, and in many cases and

755
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 3: many times, we were the bipartisan actually in the bipartisan

756
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: Infrastructure Law, which probably leads to the other thing that

757
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: makes us unique, which is just how bipartisan we are,

758
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: especially in this political environment. I think we are even

759
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: more so than other organizations like the NNGA.

760
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: We are really sticking to it.

761
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: We are really shoulder to shoulder Republicans and Democrats, and

762
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 3: I'm a registered Republican, and I think that we really

763
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: do a good job of putting aside the things that

764
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 3: divide us and finding common purpose.

765
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny that was going to be

766
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: my next question, and I'm going to be a little

767
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 1: cynical here because you just referenced the NNGA, the National

768
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: Governors Association, which has completely lost its bipartisan credibility. Right

769
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: There is no longer the same level of cooperation in

770
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: the NNGA. That was also, I would argue, at least

771
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: twenty years ago the governors when they banned it, the

772
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: NBA was actually a pretty influential could be really influential.

773
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: But the governors.

774
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 1: Have polarized a bit, and they see you could see

775
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: that they struggle to work. How have you kept the

776
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: national polarization and the state level polarization that we're seeing

777
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: across the country. How is it not leaked into the mayors?

778
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: I have two reasons. I have two explanations for that.

779
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: I think that mayors are a unique political class. And

780
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: I think that people have been saying what I'm about

781
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 3: to say for a long time. But there's kind of

782
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 3: like three major parties in America Republicans, Democrats, and mayors.

783
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 3: And I would say there's two reasons for that.

784
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: One is, we.

785
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 3: Just have to get things done, and governors to some

786
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: extent do as well, but we really do on an

787
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: hourly basis, have to get things done. Like people use

788
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: our services to literally live their lives each day, right,

789
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: Like we provide you water, we provide you street.

790
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: Well, they notice when it doesn't happen. And I'm right

791
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: now as we speak, I'm we're now a day behind

792
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: for the third week in a row in my county

793
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: for picking up our recycling. And it got a new

794
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: contractor about a month ago, and this isn't going well,

795
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: and we're all noticing. And I'll tell you I had

796
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: no idea we changed contractors in our county for the

797
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: recycling pickup until they stopped picking it up on time,

798
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: and now we're all aware of that. So it is

799
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: there's sort of a negative. You only get noticed when

800
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: something doesn't work too in the mayor level, right, And.

801
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: So if you're recycling was run by national politicians in

802
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: the current environment, they would be like tweeting back and

803
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: forth at each other they were confusing to meet.

804
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 2: They would be.

805
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 3: Saying, well, that's a Republican company, we can't do business

806
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: with that. I mean nonsense, right, So that's the difference

807
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: on one level. The other difference is, and this is

808
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: worth its own podcast probably, but for whatever historic reason,

809
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 3: mayors are generally elected, not all, but most mayors are

810
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 3: generally elected in a top two type format, often nonpartisan.

811
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 3: But I think the most important thing is that it's

812
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: a format where all the voters get to see they

813
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 3: get a ballot with all of the candidates, and all

814
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 3: of the candidates have to face all the voters. So

815
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 3: by being pulled out of the closed primary system that

816
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: elects most to other people, we just have totally different

817
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: incentive structure and we achieve much better outcomes. We're much

818
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 3: more incentivized to build coalitions across party lines in our cities,

819
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 3: and most governors are going to be elected to a

820
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 3: close parties in primary process, so they're they're falling, They're

821
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: they're falling into this current part isn't trapped. We're kind

822
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 3: of protected from a little.

823
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: Bit, you know, you get right at something I was

824
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: sort of ranting about a couple of weeks ago, quoting

825
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: Milton Friedman who says, it isn't about whether you elect

826
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: the right people. It's whether there's you know, the wrong

827
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: people can do the right thing with the right incentives.

828
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: And the problem we have in our political system right

829
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: now is our incentives are screwed up. That's true in

830
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: my industry as well. With media. The incentives are screwed up.

831
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: And you just gave the best explanation of I'm a

832
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm I am if I'm going to be biased about

833
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: anything that's on political reform, and we really need to

834
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: get rid of primaries. Primaries are are are in some ways.

835
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: Primaries are what washed George Washington was warning about when

836
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: he was warning against factionalism and how that would lead

837
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: to it. If we want to minimize that, we've got

838
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: to do this and you're just explaining why are mayor's

839
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: less partisan. I'll give you a great example, Carlos A.

840
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: Menez who's a member of Congress now from Miami. He

841
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: was Miami Dade County mayor and it was a non

842
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: partisan office. When you run as the county mayor, people know,

843
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: you know, the two parties. Yeah, the kind of work.

844
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: You sort of have an idea of who's right a center,

845
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: who's left a center. But it is interesting as a

846
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: member of Congress, he's been much more of a partisan.

847
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: I don't say that as a critique. I say that

848
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: as a fact. It's sort of part of the job.

849
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: He probably would get voted out if he wasn't voting

850
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: in a partisan way.

851
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 2: As mayor.

852
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: He was not a partisan, and you could and you

853
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: just got to what's the difference the voter he had

854
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: to face the county wide voter in Miami Dade County. Well,

855
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: that's a fifty to fifty county slight lead to the right,

856
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: very similar to Oklahoma City. Right, like, it's slowly to

857
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 1: the right, but you can't go too far in either

858
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: direction and you're going to get whipped back. His congressional

859
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: district is different and it's a primary that Alexa, and

860
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: so he's got to be more focused there. In many ways,

861
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: you just explain polar why we're so polarized on the

862
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: federal level when on the local level, if we were

863
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: this polarized cities, you know, people wouldn't have garbage picked up.

864
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of a zealot on this issue.

865
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: And people want to talk about guns or abortion or

866
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: what seems to be intractable problems. I always get back

867
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 3: to election reform, which is you know, like kind of

868
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: wonkey and like doesn't seem like that's the problem, that's

869
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 3: the solution we're looking for, but it is in fact,

870
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 3: because that's why you know, these widely held views are

871
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 3: not getting translated into policies at other levels besides the

872
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: city level, because like we're divided and conquered, they're they're

873
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 3: held across party lines and people. That's not really how

874
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: we make decisions and elections in this country. Your your

875
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: entire incentive structure is to make it out of that

876
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: first round, and that first round is a subset of

877
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 3: the electorate that is not just one party. But you know,

878
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 3: I mean they're voting in like in Oklahoma, I mean

879
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: our our decisions are all made in the runoffs. I

880
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 3: mean they're talking about the people who show up in

881
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: August to vote.

882
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: They I mean they've joke up twice. Yeah right.

883
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 3: You know, these are the most extreme people imaginable. Their

884
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: priorities are completely different from the electorate at large.

885
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 2: This is this is.

886
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 3: The source of all evil in American politics today. And

887
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: I'm I'm just so proud and glad to be a

888
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: mayor and I get to I get to practice politics

889
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 3: the way I think it was practiced in this country

890
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 3: for two centuries.

891
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: I look, you are you are preaching to you know,

892
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: I have said this country desperately needs a pastor for patriotism.

893
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm not a religious person, but I really think we

894
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: need people to understand sort of, you know, the right

895
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: way democracy work, and and and and so forth. But

896
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the question I was asking,

897
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: implying at the beginning, the fact that you're you're a

898
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 1: bipartisan organization, does that weirdly put you at a disadvantage

899
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: in Trump's Washington?

900
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 3: Oh perhaps, I mean, you know, that's for them to say.

901
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 3: I suppose we have I think, especially in this a

902
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 3: second Trump term taken as open minded and non confrontational

903
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 3: attitude as we possibly can. And I should say that

904
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 3: like that. The Trump tenure started earlier this year under

905
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 3: the presidency conference of mayor's presidency of a Democratic mayor,

906
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 3: and you get there of Columbus, and he set that tone.

907
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 3: You know, he wasn't gonna he wasn't going to have

908
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 3: this conference be the face of the resistance, right, And

909
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 3: so that has been our attitude is we want to

910
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 3: keep trying to find common ground, things we can work

911
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 3: together on. Maybe it's maybe it's public safety. Obviously, you know,

912
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 3: I have to, of course be honest. That's been challenging

913
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 3: and it's not necessarily true that we have gotten a

914
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 3: lot of engagement going both ways. But you're still trying

915
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 3: to stick to that. But I mean, yes, I get it.

916
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 3: I mean, we have obviously a lot of prominent Democratic

917
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: mayors in our organization, and even the Republican mayors are pragmatic,

918
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 3: right and not generally going to be like MAGA people.

919
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 2: And so it is what it is.

920
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 3: But we're trying to stay open minded because ultimately we

921
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 3: want to do what's best for our residents, and working

922
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: with the administration that is in power is what's best

923
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 3: for our residents.

924
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 2: No, it is.

925
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: And you're also getting at something that I think is

926
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: lost on the federal level right now, which is and

927
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 1: frankly at the state level. And it may get to

928
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: the voting incentive structures you and I were just discussing,

929
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: which is if a mayor picks and chooses who they

930
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: governed for, meaning, well, I'm going to pick up the

931
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: trash in the neighborhood that supported me the most, but

932
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to be I'm gonna, you know, take my time.

933
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: You know.

934
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: I remember my mother telling me stories of the Chicago Daily,

935
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: the original Daily Machine, and her grandfather telling her, well,

936
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 1: you know, they keep track of who votes for who

937
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: and what precincts, so you know, or you won't get

938
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: certain services. And that is what they believed. I don't

939
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: know if that was the case, but that's what they

940
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: believed in Chicago in the fifties in sixties, right, And

941
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 1: you're like, boy, that's you know, I buy that though

942
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: machine politics certainly worked a certain way, but these days

943
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: mayors have to govern for an entire city. If you

944
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: neglect one part, everybody will be angry at you.

945
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: Right.

946
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: There is that sense of there is not you know,

947
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: there seems to be a comfort now in only governing

948
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: for your supporter on the federal or state level. Is

949
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: that all attributable just simply how people get elected?

950
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

951
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 3: I mean you could try to buck that system, I guess,

952
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 3: but certainly that's what the incentives are in place for

953
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 3: here in Oklahoma City because of our system. It's like

954
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 3: from the very moment I announced I was running eight

955
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: years ago, I embraced democratic and independent support, even though

956
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: I had been a Republican state senator. And I've maintained

957
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: that coalition. And when we when we run initiatives, I've

958
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 3: run at least I guess three tax votes since I

959
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: took office.

960
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 2: You know, all of it.

961
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: You have to take all those votes to your voters

962
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: when you want to raise any sort of tax.

963
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, And and you know we we've topped sixty

964
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 3: five percent in all three.

965
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 2: And to put that into some perspective.

966
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 3: Oklahoma City is really a demographic and political microcosm of

967
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 3: the country. Trump won this county forty nine, eight, and

968
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 3: twenty twenty in twenty twenty four, the exact same to.

969
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: That national that's the national basically the national split in

970
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: twenty four yeah, and if you look.

971
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 3: At the demographics, I mean it's it's fifteen percent African American,

972
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: twenty percent Hispanic.

973
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so on and so on.

974
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 3: So I think we prove nowther nonetheless, in these outcomes

975
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 3: where we're getting sixty five percent and I got seventy

976
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: eight and sixty percent in my two elections, that we

977
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 3: can all find a way to work together. The seventy

978
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: percent of people in the middle. You can't get one

979
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: hundred percent, but you kind of have to at some

980
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 3: level sort of just move on from the people at

981
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:36,919
Speaker 3: the extremes. But but you can find outcomes, and that's

982
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 3: that's what we're incentivized to do. I suppose somebody could

983
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 3: run for mayor and do a different you know, try

984
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: a different approach. But to me, it's like that's what

985
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: I wanted to do. I'm incentivized to do it. It

986
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 3: seems morally right. It's more fun this way, all of

987
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 3: the things aligned. I think you could if you were

988
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 3: in national politics, you could try and you could try

989
00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 3: to be a leader, and you could try to set

990
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: an example. I mean, there is the danger you're going

991
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 3: to get punished and your part is in primary though

992
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 3: for trying to be that person that's bringing people together.

993
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it used to be you and I are

994
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 3: both build enough to remember we see and the general

995
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 3: election used to say they can work across the aisle,

996
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 3: and like that would be the last thing you would

997
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 3: now advertise in a campaign, right, you get punished for that.

998
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: So anyways, I don't know if there really is a

999
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 3: possibility for national and state leaders to do that until

1000
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 3: there is election reform that gives them the incentives and

1001
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 3: the rewards for that.

1002
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a couple of challenges that I think

1003
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 1: are across cities. I say this because I just sat

1004
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: down for about an hour and a half hour with

1005
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: Muriel Bowser, mayor of DC, and you know she's handled

1006
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: the situation with Trump. I would say, the way you

1007
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: just described how the Conference of Mayors wants to be,

1008
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: we're not there's not going to be the resistance. She

1009
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: did that the first term. That was one instance, and

1010
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: she said to me, look, there was a Democratic House

1011
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: that had her back. So you know she's in a

1012
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: more unique situation with her funding and all of that too.

1013
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about law and order issues,

1014
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: one thing she emphasized, right, and she's taken a different tone.

1015
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: For instance, in the mayor of Chicago, she's like, Hey,

1016
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: I could use the extra resources. Now will you let

1017
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: me decide where I want those resources. I don't want

1018
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: you to tell me where you think I need those resources. Right,

1019
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: there's that, and that's a push pull that you'd have

1020
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: in any relationship. But she's still having a hard time

1021
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: hiring cops. Are you finding the same thing. I know

1022
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: a lot of cities that there's just you know, the help.

1023
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of vacancies for more cops. The budget

1024
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 1: is there to hire more cops, there's just not enough

1025
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: people applying.

1026
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: Are you having that same problem? Yeh, we are, And

1027
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: you're right.

1028
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 3: We have the money and it's not an issue of

1029
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 3: money like it might have been in the past at

1030
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: least us.

1031
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: I can't say that is universally across the cities.

1032
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 3: But but we we have the resources and we just

1033
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 3: have trouble filling the position.

1034
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: So, yeah, this is an Oklahoma city, Like there's you know,

1035
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: there's been some thesis, well, people don't want to do

1036
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: it in Washington, DC because the city council has been

1037
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: hostile towards police officers. Yeah, the fact that this is

1038
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: across the country. This is bigger than that.

1039
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.

1040
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 3: I think we need to be I think it is

1041
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 3: important that we that we use supportive rhetoric. That doesn't

1042
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 3: mean you have to find the right balance, right, but

1043
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 3: you certainly should lift up the profession as one of

1044
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 3: noble public service. But I think you're right, it seems

1045
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 3: like the problem goes beyond that that that's not the

1046
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 3: only solution. So to the bigger issue, yes, I mean,

1047
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 3: like we need people, so we're not averse to federal support.

1048
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 3: But to your point, and to Mayor Bowser's point, like

1049
01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 3: just parachuting the men with no coordination or supervision or

1050
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 3: training is not really going to do anything at least

1051
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 3: certainly not in the long term. And actually most crime

1052
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 3: is not, at least in communities like mine. It's not

1053
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: being committed out on the street corner in public, right,

1054
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 3: I mean, like a crime is a much more nuanced

1055
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 3: and complicated subject. And it's why we have also employed

1056
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 3: which is just as important as as law enforcement. We've

1057
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 3: employed so many different prevention and intervention strategies because I

1058
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 3: don't I don't think in Oklahoma City it may have

1059
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 3: been different in DC. I know they had a lot

1060
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 3: of carjackings and stuff like in Oklahoma City. If I

1061
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 3: just put a police officer just standing on every corner,

1062
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 3: I don't think I would necessarily reduce crime at all,

1063
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 3: because that's somewhere crime is happening.

1064
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,919
Speaker 2: You know, it's a it's it's it's not a.

1065
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 3: Public act for the most part, and so public law

1066
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: enforcement is a component of the solution. But prevention and

1067
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 3: intervention is just as important. And I think you've seen

1068
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 3: a lot of cities reduced our crime, which, by the way,

1069
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: all crime is going down across the country because we've

1070
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 3: embraced those multifaceted approaches.

1071
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: Put your US Conference of Mayors hat on back again.

1072
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: For me, I've heard some complaints from some mayors, at

1073
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: least I've read some complaints from some mayors that the

1074
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: recruitment of ICE officers with the fifty thousand dollars bonus

1075
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: is making it what was already difficult in recruiting new

1076
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: local police officers. That this that the amount of money

1077
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: they're throwing at ICE recruitment is really sort of you know,

1078
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: taking away whatever pool of potential new officers there were,

1079
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: and worse, you're actually losing some first, second, or third

1080
01:03:54,760 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: year police officers jumping ship because hey, fifty grand signing bonus.

1081
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: Interesting.

1082
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: I haven't heard that, I would say, though, I mean,

1083
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,479
Speaker 3: but I'll take it at face value, but say that.

1084
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: Well, the videos they've been more doing, the TV ads,

1085
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: recruitment ads. I don't know if you've seen them. They've

1086
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: been all over different markets, and sometimes they'll say, hey,

1087
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: in your you know, in Virginia won't allow you to

1088
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: do your job. Here in Ice, they will. They're almost

1089
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: like recruiting current law local law enforcement to jump ship,

1090
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: and it just seems counterproductive.

1091
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 2: Well, it depends what your priorities are. I guess totally.

1092
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: It's counter productive to our.

1093
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: To the local counterproductive to the local officials. Yeah, obviously,

1094
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: but right Trump's agenda is a different situation.

1095
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we we always have to function in

1096
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 3: this free market. We're competing with other law enforcement agencies,

1097
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 3: we're competing with obviously entirely different professions, you know.

1098
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 2: I mean, so one of.

1099
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 3: The things that of course cities across the country have

1100
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 3: done in these last five years, I would say there's

1101
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 3: probably been a pretty historically significant Galatian and salaries and

1102
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 3: and bonuses, you know, more so. I mean, we've given

1103
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 3: our biggest raises in city history just in these last

1104
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 3: few years.

1105
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 2: You still have a pension for police officers or is

1106
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 2: it a different retirement?

1107
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 3: The retirement is run by the state, but it's very

1108
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 3: generous here. Yeah, it's a it's a pension system and yeah, no,

1109
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 3: it's it's it's I mean generous relative to public servants

1110
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 3: in general. Right, So, I you know, I don't think

1111
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 3: within the ecosystem of law enforcement here in Oklahoma.

1112
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 2: I think we're highly competitive.

1113
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, obviously it's something some new opportunity that's sort

1114
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 3: of uh, you know, law enforcement adjacent presents itself with

1115
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: those types of numbers.

1116
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's.

1117
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 3: Challenging, but I don't know that I can really tell

1118
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 3: external entities they stop paying people so much, you know,

1119
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 3: like I think.

1120
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 2: We just know how to raise our game. I get that.

1121
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: Well, is this you know there's some chatter of a

1122
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: crime bill that might come out of Congress, you know,

1123
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: which could mean some funding for or hiring of more

1124
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: police officers. What if they come to you saying, what

1125
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 1: would you like to see in this crime bill? What

1126
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: would help Oklahoma City? Do you need money? Do you

1127
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: need something else.

1128
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 2: What do you need, Well, we always need money.

1129
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 3: I would say that I would like it to be

1130
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: well as much as possible, money that you know, that

1131
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 3: we can directly influence, because I think local decisions about

1132
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 3: how money is spent and to be the best. So

1133
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 3: the closest it can be to some sort of block grant,

1134
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 3: the better. But and the closest it can be to

1135
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 3: something distributed directly to cities and not through states. But

1136
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 3: more specifically, I mean I would obviously look for funding

1137
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 3: for police salaries. I mean, even though I said we

1138
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 3: have the money, I mean that doesn't mean we have

1139
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 3: the money to pay them to compete with fifty thousand

1140
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 3: dollars signing bonuses, you know. So I mean maybe that's

1141
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 3: something that could be in assistance. But I would also say,

1142
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 3: like to my earlier comment, I would say, also help us,

1143
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 3: help us on the intervention and prevention strategies. I mean,

1144
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 3: you know, going back to the nineties, you know the

1145
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 3: cops grants under the Clinton administration, those help fund police officers.

1146
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 3: But we also spend a lot of time talking about

1147
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 3: midnight basketball.

1148
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 2: Right, Well, these these.

1149
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 3: Concepts are kind of universal and timeless, and we still

1150
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: need we still need cops, and we still need midnight basketball.

1151
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: Those youth programs matter in the summer, those youth programs.

1152
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean when d C, when does d C have

1153
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: a crime spike. It's in the summer, and when does

1154
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: it go down? And it's not just DC. A lot

1155
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: of cities are that way, right, You get this mini

1156
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: spike in the summer, and you know, if more community programs,

1157
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: it's amazing how they you can you can bend that

1158
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: curve back. Yeah, let's go to housing. It's a it's

1159
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: a it's the issue I hear. I'll hear it from

1160
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: members of Congress. What's a what's an issue that the

1161
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: media doesn't talk about enough? But your constituents bring up

1162
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: all the time, and they'll say, uh, the cost of housing.

1163
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: Is there help on the federal level that would help you?

1164
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: Or is this a zoning issue on your end? Is

1165
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: this a state and local challenge and there's not much

1166
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: the feds can do to help you out.

1167
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,479
Speaker 3: Well, it's all of the above, and certainly we should

1168
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 3: all do what we can. And there are there are

1169
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,799
Speaker 3: bills that are right now in the process in Congress,

1170
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 3: both in the House and the Senate that are remarkably bipartisans.

1171
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 2: So about a month or.

1172
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 3: Two ago, Senator Warren raised in Oklahoma City, by the way,

1173
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 3: but obviously now a Senator from Massachusetts introduced a bill

1174
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:37,600
Speaker 3: with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, a bipartisan alliance

1175
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 3: that's got a it's kind of a whole gamut of

1176
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 3: housing programs in it. So that passed out of committee unanimously.

1177
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 3: So we're hoping to see that get some kind of traction,

1178
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 3: either added to another piece of legislation or a Senate

1179
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 3: floor vote.

1180
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 2: And then over in the House, you've.

1181
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 3: Got Representative Flood of Nebraska has is introducing a bill

1182
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 3: with Representative Cleaver of Missouri. This is a Republican and

1183
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 3: a Democrat, and that's that's their answer to the housing problem.

1184
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 3: We were up there a couple of weeks ago meeting

1185
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 3: with a lot of these people that I just described

1186
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,799
Speaker 3: and others, and they all said that even their internal

1187
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 3: caucus polling is telling them the housing is like the

1188
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 3: number one issue. It's right up there, and they've all

1189
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 3: got to be working on it. So so we're obviously

1190
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 3: we're supportive as mayors of anything that moves the ball

1191
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,919
Speaker 3: forward and any piece of legislation that's getting traction in Congress,

1192
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 3: and obviously we have a big role to play as well,

1193
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 3: and we need to make sure that, you know, the

1194
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 3: regulatory environment is positive and we can also do incentive

1195
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 3: programs here in Oklahoma City, actually two weeks from today

1196
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 3: we're voting on a larger initiative that includes in a

1197
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars for affordable housing incentives for developers. So

1198
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 3: you know, we're trying to do our part as well,

1199
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 3: and I'm sure the state could could also come to

1200
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 3: the table, but we we would love to see some

1201
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 3: of these congressional acts move forward.

1202
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: We believe that would you get from it? What are

1203
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: they proposing that would help? We're all just like they're

1204
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: so like comprehensive. You know, no, I get it, But

1205
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,480
Speaker 1: is it? Is it just financial incentives?

1206
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,759
Speaker 2: What is it? Yeah?

1207
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a little bit of everything, certainly financial stuff,

1208
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 3: certainly stuff around CDBG trying to incentive in some cases

1209
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 3: incentivize local governments to do more housing with their CDBG funds.

1210
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,799
Speaker 3: And for your listener, CDBG development Block Grants it's a

1211
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 3: kind of a local block grant that's been given to

1212
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,560
Speaker 3: city government since nineteen seventies.

1213
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 2: Sometimes use for housing for public housing. Yeah, sometimes it's

1214
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 2: for public housing or any kind of I mean.

1215
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 3: You know, the world's kind of moved away from like

1216
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 3: giant housing projects a little bit, but you know, yeah,

1217
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 3: I mean definitely publicly funded in finance housing, yes, for sure.

1218
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 3: And I think that one key component is to try

1219
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 3: to incentivize local govern to do more of that with

1220
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 3: their CDBG funding and maybe give them more money if

1221
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 3: they do that. That's just an example. It's like any

1222
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 3: congressional act. Both of these bills have hundreds of provisions

1223
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 3: and hundreds of programs and and uh and some of

1224
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 3: them we may actually have some trepidation about, but we're

1225
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 3: working through all that.

1226
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: And right, well, give me.

1227
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: Give me an example of where you'd have some trepidation

1228
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: where they're you know, like they think that way on.

1229
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 3: That well, I mean it's nitpicky, but on that one

1230
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 3: program I just described, where they're giving more CDBG money

1231
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 3: to some cities, they're actually taking it from other cities

1232
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 3: who aren't doing it right, So it's a caridena stick,

1233
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 3: you know. So we don't always love the sticks, but but.

1234
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 2: That's this kind of stuff.

1235
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 3: We're just happy when they're talking about it, we kind

1236
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 3: of at I feel like we're at the stage where

1237
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 3: we're not quibbling over provisions. We're just trying to get

1238
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 3: people in Congress to say this is as an important

1239
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 3: an issue as we think it is, and we just

1240
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 3: are kind of supportive of anything that's moving forward right now.

1241
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: So.

1242
01:11:59,040 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: Let's stay with us.

1243
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: One of the things I struggle with as a riddle is,

1244
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, I consider myself a free market guy. I

1245
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 1: consider myself a capitalist. I don't know how you control

1246
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: for affordable housing in a free market system, and I

1247
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: don't know how over time? Right Like that, That to

1248
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: me is, you know, how do you how do you

1249
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: cap the value?

1250
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 2: Right? And at the same.

1251
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: Time, what why is owning a home part of the

1252
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: American dream because that's how you're able to sort of

1253
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: move up the next rung of the ladder. But if

1254
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: you put a cap on the ability of the value

1255
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: of said home, then you've actually capped the ability of

1256
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 1: said person to move up the ladder. Right You see

1257
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: where I'm going here, Like, you know, on one hand,

1258
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: you're trying to be you know, spread the wealth for

1259
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: more affordable housing. At the same time, you're not trying.

1260
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 1: You don't want to create an artificial market either.

1261
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:00,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll get Well, I think

1262
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 3: I have something of an answer for you by describing

1263
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 3: maybe in more detail, what we do in what we're

1264
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 3: doing in Oklahoma City, and we're kind of, you know, politically,

1265
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,320
Speaker 3: we're sort of a free market community.

1266
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: We're pro business.

1267
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the word rent control would be something

1268
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: I said very often. Yeah, like literally never right.

1269
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: Like that would never even come up, right and I

1270
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 3: would never be discussed. So how do we, as that

1271
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 3: kind of community, which is probably more common than not,

1272
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 3: address these issues.

1273
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 2: Well.

1274
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 3: So, in twenty seventeen, our voters passed a bond issue

1275
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 3: that had lots of stuff in it, streets and bridges

1276
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 3: and lots of things, but it also had a ten

1277
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 3: million dollar fund where developers could come to us and

1278
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 3: they might say, Okay, we're going to build an apartment complex,

1279
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 3: and of course we live in the free market and

1280
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 3: we want to make money, so we would just charge

1281
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 3: charge market rent for all of those apartments absence some

1282
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 3: subsidy or you know, some incentive that would kind of

1283
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 3: fill the gap for us. And that's how obviously most

1284
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 3: free market actors are going to behave They're not going to,

1285
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 3: out of the goodness of their heart, charge less than

1286
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 3: they possibly could.

1287
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: Right. So that's where government can come in.

1288
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 3: So they come to us and they say, like, you know,

1289
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 3: if you give me a million dollar allocation out of

1290
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 3: this ten million dollar fund, I will offer twenty four apartments,

1291
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 3: you know, at this lower rate to people making this

1292
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 3: percentage of you know, the median income of the county. Right,

1293
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 3: I mean, he gets obviously all its means tested.

1294
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: You wouldn't allow somebody of wealth to get somebody at

1295
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 1: a cheap their price, right, yeah, right, and.

1296
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 3: So and so we've been doing that successfully. And this

1297
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,919
Speaker 3: bond issue that we're actually voting on as a community

1298
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 3: on October fourteenth has another fifty because we feel like

1299
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: fifty million, because we feel like this has been proven

1300
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 3: to be successful and impactful. We could probably spend you know,

1301
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars on this. We're doing what

1302
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 3: we can within the context of other needs that we

1303
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 3: have as a city. But I think this is this

1304
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 3: specific program, and I'm sure there's lots of great ideas

1305
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 3: out there in the laboratories of democracy, but you know,

1306
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 3: this is an example I think of what you're talking about, like,

1307
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 3: how can we maybe more positively impact the free market

1308
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 3: without without limiting values, without rent, you know, controlling rent,

1309
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 3: without artificially manipulating it too much. I mean, we are

1310
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 3: coming in and we're manipulating the market to some extent,

1311
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 3: but we're using your tax dollars to do it, and

1312
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 3: we even asked you for permission because you're saying, Okay,

1313
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 3: that's a priority to me. I want to use my

1314
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 3: tax dollars to meet that need.

1315
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: On the.

1316
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious on the on rent, are there similar ways

1317
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: to incentivize landlords not to raise rent too fast, too quickly?

1318
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: And and what's a way to do it again without

1319
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 1: feeling like you're killing the free market?

1320
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 3: I think in a community like Oklahoma City, it would

1321
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 3: have to be through something like I'm describing where you're

1322
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 3: filling the gap for the land uh, for the for

1323
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 3: the Is it.

1324
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: A property tax break or something like that. Yeah, I

1325
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 1: mean that's just like a different way of giving them

1326
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: an incentive. It's just like you don't have to take

1327
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: the money and hand it back to them, you just

1328
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: don't take it in the first place. But yeah, I mean,

1329
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: to me, that's just the same thing. You're essentially using

1330
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: the collective.

1331
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 3: Tax base of the of the community to incentivize a

1332
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 3: developer so they can maintain their profits, but they're getting

1333
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 3: less money out of their renter. I think that's kind

1334
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 3: of the best answer there is in free market pro

1335
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 3: free market communities like Oklahoma City, we're never going to

1336
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: talk about rent control and that sort of thing. Also,

1337
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 3: of course, we have an Oklahoma City Housing Authority. We

1338
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 3: put fifty million dollars into a previous initiative I had.

1339
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 3: Even this is a different fifty million dollars that is

1340
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 3: helping them revitalize and refurbish and rebuild and build a

1341
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 3: new you know, their own housing offerings that are truly

1342
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 3: public housing. That's kind of a different thing. Obviously, that's

1343
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 3: kind of even lower on the socioeconomic scale. Those are

1344
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 3: people that, like you know, their next step is homelessness,

1345
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 3: and certainly that's that can be part of the solution

1346
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 3: as well.

1347
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 2: Let me go to the before before I get you

1348
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 2: out of here, let me go to the other.

1349
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 1: What I think is going to be a challenge in

1350
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: the next year for every mayor and I think every

1351
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: governor thanks to COVID, and I would argue you could

1352
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,959
Speaker 1: even go back to the Great Recession. The federal government

1353
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: has been shoveling a lot of money to states and

1354
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: cities over the last decade for a variety of necessities. Okay,

1355
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: these were necessary reasons, COVID being porhaps the best most

1356
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: recent example. This stuff is starting to go away, right

1357
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: in some cases it already has some of this stuff.

1358
01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: Is is there a is is there a budget crisis coming?

1359
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 1: I sense it on the state level. Is that about

1360
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 1: to trickle down to cities over the next year or two?

1361
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: Are you are you going to start feeling a squeeze

1362
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: on all your budgets?

1363
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's variable across the country.

1364
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: You're right.

1365
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 3: I mean when you think about Cares Act and are

1366
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 3: there were some pretty massive amounts given to cities.

1367
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: It really kills a gap by teacher salaries. I know

1368
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: that Like that really helped a lot of states give raises.

1369
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 1: I mean State of Florida gave a whole bunch of

1370
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: raises to you, said Sheley, teachers and first responders because

1371
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: of this lettle money.

1372
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1373
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, I would say in Alahoma City, I mean,

1374
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 3: in either of those initiatives, I think we got some

1375
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 3: number that was around one hundred to one hundred and

1376
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars soliblur now, but you know, we have

1377
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 3: an annual budget operating budget of a billion dollars and

1378
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 3: we never thought it would be wise to use that

1379
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 3: money for an ongoing expense, knowing that it was a

1380
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 3: one time payment, so like we would not have necessarily

1381
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 3: used it to provide raises for example.

1382
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: It didn't plug holes, right, I think a lot of

1383
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: people used it to.

1384
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 3: Plug I mean, but I'm speaking for myself. I think

1385
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 3: that other cities you responsible.

1386
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 2: Mayor, you is what you're really saying. I said, I

1387
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 2: think we're okay, but.

1388
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 3: I do think, yeah, I think that's gonna it already

1389
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 3: is a challenge for other cities. And you're seeing some

1390
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 3: layoffs around the country in municipalities. I mean, just google

1391
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 3: layoffs and cities or layoffs and mayor and you're going

1392
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 3: to see that that's happening in some cities around the country.

1393
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 3: They're working their way through it. But I mean, you know,

1394
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 3: it's also part of the ebb and flow of life,

1395
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 3: and mayors have dealt with these ups and downs through

1396
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 3: the decades. So I don't I don't I like to

1397
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 3: I try not to throw the word crisis around too liberally,

1398
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 3: you know, So I think it's less a crisis than

1399
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 3: it is a challenge we've got to meet in the

1400
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 3: next few years.

1401
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: Does this mean you know, look, you you you talk

1402
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: about the different ways you've raised revenue, You've got to

1403
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: go to the voters every time you do it.

1404
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 3: Yes, And actually over the last thirty years, you know,

1405
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 3: our renaissance to Oklahoma City kind of starts around the

1406
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 3: time of the bombing in nineteen ninety five, and since

1407
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 3: that time we are fourteen to zero in tax elections.

1408
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 1: Interesting, and it's all been Republican mayors, if I'm not mistaken.

1409
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, yeah, and that whole era.

1410
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 3: And yeah, and a city that's still majority registered Republican,

1411
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 3: even if they a little you know, independent in their

1412
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 3: federal voting. But we've just done a really good job of,

1413
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 3: I think, building trust and showing that, you know, the

1414
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:36,599
Speaker 3: important role that government can play, and like just being

1415
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 3: really transparent about it and then following through and obviously

1416
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 3: being able to see the results, you know. I mean,

1417
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 3: I think the peel of Oklahoma City have a very

1418
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 3: optimistic view of the way that local government can impact

1419
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 3: their lives, and they have seen those results time and

1420
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 3: time and time again, and we're living you're catching me,

1421
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 3: you know, in the still, in the continued glow of

1422
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 3: an NBA champion ship, and our residents would say, look,

1423
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 3: that's that's all part of this amazing journey. And it

1424
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 3: all kind of started with government.

1425
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, voter, you threw money at

1426
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:17,600
Speaker 1: getting a sports franchise, right, that's not always popular with voters.

1427
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.

1428
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,959
Speaker 1: You know, the city of San Diego lost the Chargers

1429
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: because voters said no to taxpayers subsidizing a stadium for them.

1430
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 1: Why do you think you Oklahoma City residents embraced the

1431
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,759
Speaker 1: idea of all right, we're going to subsidize these billionaire

1432
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: sports owners.

1433
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 3: Because so in twenty twenty three, specifically, we passed a

1434
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,679
Speaker 3: six year, one cent sales tax to fund a billion

1435
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 3: dollar arena, and they got seventy one percent. And most

1436
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 3: of these either fail these or have given up trying

1437
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 3: because they don't. They don't really passed anywhere anymore.

1438
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: I would say here, and this is before the NBA championship. Yeah,

1439
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 2: before the championship.

1440
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,640
Speaker 3: I would say here, and I spent a couple of

1441
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 3: years sort of educating my voters on leading up to

1442
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 3: that vote on the realities of being in the forty

1443
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 3: second largest market. I love to say we're the twentieth

1444
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 3: largest city, and that's absolutely true, but when you throw

1445
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 3: in the suburbs, which matters more to a business or

1446
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:19,520
Speaker 3: a sports team, right the forty second largest market, and

1447
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 3: there's just some realities that come with that. We're not

1448
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 3: going to get the same deal that the top five

1449
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,759
Speaker 3: market is going to get, or even a top twenty market.

1450
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 3: And also, like we've only had the team seventeen years,

1451
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 3: so we kind of remember what life was like before.

1452
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 3: I'm a big believer that your first major league professional

1453
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 3: sports team for a city like ours, and there's a

1454
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 3: few examples of this through the last thirty or forty

1455
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 3: years Charlotte, Nashville, Oklahoma City, where like you've said your

1456
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 3: first team and then this, yeah, and this like explosion

1457
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 3: happens in the city, and you cannot convince me it's

1458
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 3: a coincidence. I mean, I think it is the closest

1459
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 3: thing that we have in American life to bestowing a

1460
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 3: Blue ribbon on our top cities is giving them a

1461
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 3: team in the NBA, the MLB, or the NFL and

1462
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 3: to a much lesser extent, NHL and MLF.

1463
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 2: And when that happens, it just kind of changes your

1464
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 2: whole identity a you know, I mean there's something about that.

1465
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 1: It's just the words, right, you're a major market at

1466
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 1: that point.

1467
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, when when if you're talking about

1468
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 3: the second or third or fourth arena or stadium that

1469
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 3: you need to build, that's a different conversation because that's

1470
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 3: not changing your status.

1471
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 2: That's just providing work things to do. But but that first.

1472
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 3: Team, like that arena unlocks it's not about winning a

1473
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 3: championship or going to do something fun on a Tuesday night.

1474
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 3: It unlocks our identity now, it unlocks our identity, as

1475
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 3: you said, as a major league city. And so that's

1476
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 3: why I think it did so well here among other reasons.

1477
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 3: I mean, there's fandom and all those things, right, but

1478
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 3: it was it was it was a great moment and

1479
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 3: obviously very nice. It secured for us the team for

1480
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 3: another twenty five years and a new and a new arena.

1481
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City has been in growth mode obviously. It feels

1482
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: like you know, particularly since the bombing, for sure, right

1483
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: there is like that that was just a fork in

1484
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: the road for a variety of reasons, and it does

1485
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 1: feel like is there a fear that it's growing? You

1486
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:34,360
Speaker 1: know what? What's the is the you know, quote unquote

1487
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:37,759
Speaker 1: smart growth, right, is it? Do you worry about growing

1488
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: too fast? Do you worry about growing too big? Is

1489
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: there is there? Is there too much of a good

1490
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 1: thing that you are concerned about? Yes, although I would

1491
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: say you can't. The only way to stop growth is

1492
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: to make your community an unappealing place still live, right.

1493
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 1: You can't build a wall around it, right, so I

1494
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: I you know, we tried that in the fourteen hundreds,

1495
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: and the teen hundreds that did work.

1496
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 3: Counsel Yeah, so so, uh, you kind of have to

1497
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 3: if you're a mayor, you sort of have to embrace

1498
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 3: population growth as validation that you're doing things right, and

1499
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 3: then you just got to do your best to anticipate

1500
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 3: it and try to build for it. The problem, of course,

1501
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 3: the natural problem is like I could tell you what

1502
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 3: we should be doing right now, but I don't necessarily

1503
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 3: have the.

1504
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 2: Money to do that.

1505
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 3: I don't get in advance from future taxpayers to like

1506
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 3: build out the infrastructure that they're going to need twenty

1507
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 3: years from now. We do our best, we try to allocate.

1508
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 3: We're having I think over the next couple years are

1509
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 3: going to have an important conversation about public transit as

1510
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 3: an example of trying to get ahead of this growth.

1511
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,839
Speaker 3: But I'm not ignorant to the fact that previous it's cities,

1512
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 3: and I argue that we're kind of on the customer.

1513
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 3: We're there, like Austin or Nashville or Charlotte have a

1514
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 3: hell of a lot more traffic than they used to.

1515
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 2: Boston. Nashville is too.

1516
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 1: I agree, it's like they grew too fast. You're like,

1517
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, you've got to so you got to have

1518
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,879
Speaker 1: the infrastructure to support your growth.

1519
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean, but I also am sympathetic too.

1520
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 3: I'm sure there were people who knew that back then.

1521
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 3: They weren't intimating. It's like, you don't have the money

1522
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,759
Speaker 3: until the people are all there and they start paying taxes,

1523
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 3: and then of course it's government works. So I mean,

1524
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 3: we're talking about it takes years and years and years

1525
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,679
Speaker 3: to build out the infrastructure. So anyways, it's a it's

1526
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 3: a challenge, and it's it's it's a foreseeable one. That

1527
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:28,639
Speaker 3: does not mean that it can be met. We're doing

1528
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 3: our best. But yeah, growth is absolutely the greatest challenge

1529
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:34,480
Speaker 3: you know, we'll face.

1530
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 2: Over the next ten years in Oklahoma City. I mean

1531
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 2: to get both the.

1532
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 3: Greatest thing, the greatest benefit will have and the greatest challenge.

1533
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you out of here on my

1534
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:46,600
Speaker 1: pet project, which is local news and the need for

1535
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 1: more reliable community information. Just in your you're now about

1536
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 1: to finish the second term. You're still going to run

1537
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: for a third term. I know last year you said

1538
01:26:58,080 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: you were inclined to, so you're definitely running.

1539
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I'm going to host seven events of the

1540
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 3: Summer Olympics.

1541
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 2: Chuck, I got to be here for that. That's great.

1542
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are going to be uh women's softball

1543
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 1: and uh yes, the which is so addictive to watch

1544
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,680
Speaker 1: on TV, that crazy water rapid thing. You know, God

1545
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:24,480
Speaker 1: blessed technology that we we could create piece things. It's you.

1546
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: Did you ever think you'd be a suburb of LA

1547
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty cool.

1548
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:31,640
Speaker 3: No, it's been awesome. It's a it's a testament to

1549
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 3: investing in ourselves. And I worked on it with Mayor

1550
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: Garcetti and Mayor Baths for the better part of a decade.

1551
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 2: It's it's an amazing opportunity for us.

1552
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 1: Well, no, but it's a smart way, like look, the

1553
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 1: Olympics have become, you know, for a lot of cities.

1554
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 1: You know, look I got I got the opportunity to

1555
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: see how Paris did it. In Paris, you know, didn't

1556
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 1: build new venues. They worked with old venues and it

1557
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: and it revitalized the city. And so you know, don't

1558
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, if you already have a great facility for

1559
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 1: women's softball, use it, showcase it in America?

1560
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,840
Speaker 2: Right, you know, anyway, but on.

1561
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 1: The how do you communicate with your constitution? How much

1562
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:13,680
Speaker 1: harder is it today to communicate just with everybody in

1563
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. I was just speaking to a class of

1564
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: young journalists who live in the this is the metro

1565
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: area of Washington, DC, And I'm like, how do you

1566
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: get your new And you know, the Washington Post doesn't

1567
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: cover local news. The washingt Post is a national paper.

1568
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 1: It's a terrific national paper. But in some ways, because

1569
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: they're a terrific national paper, they don't cover our little communities.

1570
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:36,719
Speaker 1: You're a former newspaper editor for a local paper in DC.

1571
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 2: Called The GW Hatchet.

1572
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 1: Right.

1573
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 2: The point is you.

1574
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: Are the only one covering foggy Bottom as a neighborhood, right,

1575
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 1: the Washington Post didn't do it. You have a lot

1576
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,880
Speaker 1: of foggy bottoms in Oklahoma City. How much harder is

1577
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 1: it to communicate? How fragmented is it just in your

1578
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 1: ability to communicate with your constituents.

1579
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like I've I've developed a work around,

1580
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 3: but I'll but I'll explain that in a moment. But

1581
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 3: it is a problem, and maybe not my work around

1582
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 3: is maybe not easy for everybody. But I actually I've

1583
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 3: been mayor for seven years. I was a state centater

1584
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 3: for eight and I was the mayor's chief of staff

1585
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:21,720
Speaker 3: for five years before that, so I have definitely had

1586
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 3: a front row seat to this progression. And when I

1587
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 3: was the mayor chief of staff, I mean, we had

1588
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,000
Speaker 3: reporters for the paper at our commission meetings, right, The

1589
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 3: Zoo Trust had a reporter in the room. We're lucky

1590
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 3: if we have reporters today at the city council meeting,

1591
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 3: you know, And that's like that would be the big

1592
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 3: show in our in our former government, right. So it

1593
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 3: is distressing because there's important things happening there. People need

1594
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 3: to know about it. There's also there's also a room

1595
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 3: for mischief, and the media was there to prevent that,

1596
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 3: you know, and to shine a light on that, and.

1597
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:55,360
Speaker 2: It so it concerns me.

1598
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:57,800
Speaker 3: And then here's the maybe the even greater problem is

1599
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 3: even when they do cover that stuff, nobody really is

1600
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:02,560
Speaker 3: it like it. It's not penetrating, you know, like the

1601
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 3: way it used to that the Daily Oklahoma and our

1602
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 3: paper for one hundred years. I mean that front page

1603
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 3: drove every conversation in the entire city for that day and.

1604
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 1: That was a so that newspaper had a strong voice. Okay,

1605
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 1: and I'll just leave it at that, right, but I say.

1606
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 3: That that's a whole nother podcast. You're right, but it

1607
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:21,599
Speaker 3: had you know, your local history here.

1608
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 2: That's right.

1609
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: It had a strong voice and in it and it

1610
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: was what it was. But they did cover the community.

1611
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so well so so so anyways, with this

1612
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:37,640
Speaker 3: this fractionalization, as you said, of interest and media, my

1613
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 3: workaround is I and I would argue I I if

1614
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 3: you look at my follower accounts, if you look at

1615
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 3: my content, I mean you'll say, like, okay, you're you're

1616
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 3: you're at the vanguard of mayors on social media. And

1617
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 3: I would argue that I am kind of a one

1618
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,799
Speaker 3: man news operation sharing what was going on in the city.

1619
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:54,559
Speaker 2: Obviously.

1620
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,760
Speaker 3: I mean the downfall of that is it's my perspective,

1621
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,240
Speaker 3: and that's going to be, you know, my perspective of it.

1622
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 3: We deserve other perspectives, probably, But I try to be

1623
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 3: fair and I'm also authentic. I'm the only one with

1624
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 3: the passwords. I mean, I am for better or words.

1625
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 3: I'm the one posting on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and threats and.

1626
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: Your kids are cringing every time right now, I'm kidding,

1627
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 1: what's happening?

1628
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 2: And your kids are cringing every time? Right yeah? Probably, yeah,

1629
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 2: out of fear. But I'm trying.

1630
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people tell me they're like,

1631
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 3: I get my news from you about Oklahoma City, you know,

1632
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 3: And so I'm trying to fill that gap, and I

1633
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 3: try to deliver civic lessons to the best I can,

1634
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 3: you know.

1635
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,480
Speaker 2: But I mean that's not for everybody, you know, obviously.

1636
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people do it through you know,

1637
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 3: staff that maybe aren't aren't as authentic or as interesting.

1638
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 3: But I think I think the answer is ultimately nonprofit journalism.

1639
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 3: I think a community has to decide that that the

1640
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 3: media actually are public servants and they have been filling

1641
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 3: a really important role in American life for two hundred

1642
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 3: and fifty years, and we as a com unity, you're

1643
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 3: going to have to pay for that through you know,

1644
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 3: philanthropy or I mean, heck, I mean, we may be

1645
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 3: twenty years away from or less from having conversations about

1646
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 3: whether we should have some sort of taxpayer funded you

1647
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:13,880
Speaker 3: know news.

1648
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 2: I know, I'm very I'm very.

1649
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, look, I understand the nonprofit I call it

1650
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 1: a crutch, right because it's the easiest answer now, But

1651
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm desperate to find a revenue stream to make it sustainable, right,

1652
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 1: And my ideal is what I'd like to see is everybody,

1653
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 1: every news organization locally operate like the Green Bay Packers,

1654
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 1: where the community owns the news organization. Not necessarily a

1655
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 1: for profit or a nonprofit. It's more of almost a

1656
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 1: cooperative that a community cooperative because the community needs it

1657
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 1: to find out what the hell's going on? Right, But

1658
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: it's sort of self I don't know, but we definitely

1659
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 1: community has to own it.

1660
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:57,520
Speaker 2: I worry about.

1661
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: Taxpayer funding for it because then that's right reasons.

1662
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's state.

1663
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 3: State journalism is not doesn't have the best track record

1664
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:05,719
Speaker 3: in human history.

1665
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 2: But no, but it's what it's.

1666
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:10,360
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you feel like there are probably

1667
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: gaps in your community. You know, how do you keep

1668
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: up with what's happening in your community if you don't

1669
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 1: have you know, a local muckbreaker letting you know.

1670
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean just it's it's concerning and and

1671
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 3: it is definitely Uh. I think much like it's probably

1672
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:29,559
Speaker 3: one of the top issues facing the civic life of

1673
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 3: our of our nation, much like I think electoral reform.

1674
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 3: We got to figure this out too, We gotta we

1675
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 3: gotta figure out a way for people to get information

1676
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 3: about the civic life of their city, because that what

1677
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 3: people are getting a lot of news. But it's like

1678
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 3: professional wrestling, you know, and that's what's killing. Among the

1679
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:51,200
Speaker 3: things that is killing our civic life is this entertainment news. Yeah,

1680
01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 3: but government is not entertaining for the most part. It's

1681
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,479
Speaker 3: boring and uh and you need to you need that.

1682
01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 3: You need that kind of news too, as much as

1683
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 3: you think you don't. It did meet the need for

1684
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 3: a very long time in our in our nation.

1685
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 1: Well, and at a minimum, you got to find out

1686
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: what the whether what the Oklahoma senters are doing. You

1687
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 1: got to find out if the thunder is going to

1688
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:16,679
Speaker 1: like be active on the trade deadline, right, I mean,

1689
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, I kid, but well that's what But that

1690
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:22,760
Speaker 1: is part of it. Like what I always say is

1691
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 1: local journalism is serviced. You got to cover the stories

1692
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 1: the people want. People want that stuff, You cover what

1693
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:31,240
Speaker 1: they want, and then you cover the stuff that they

1694
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:31,640
Speaker 1: need to know.

1695
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 2: Right. You got to be an a not an ore

1696
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 2: in that situation.

1697
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's right. Keep keep that as your

1698
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 3: pet project.

1699
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 2: That's a good thing. I will do that.

1700
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 1: Oklahoma are you You're a GW guy, which is very

1701
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,400
Speaker 1: important as far as you and I are concerned. But

1702
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: for college football, are you? Is there just is poor

1703
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State just out now? No, I mean they're they're

1704
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 1: just sort of the step the step child of Oklahoma foot.

1705
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean, well not for their graduates obviously,

1706
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 3: and they are. They are significantly upgraded as a program

1707
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 3: from where they were twenty years ago. And Mike Gundy,

1708
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 3: who was obviously recently let go, was one of the

1709
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:17,760
Speaker 3: big drivers of that. So he deserves a lot of

1710
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 3: credit for that.

1711
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:19,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, O US.

1712
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,960
Speaker 3: I would say OU's moved to the SEC obviously took

1713
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:25,759
Speaker 3: them to another level, and you know, I think we'll

1714
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,360
Speaker 3: still reckon with that for years to come. How that

1715
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 3: has altered the dynamic between those two programs. OU is

1716
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 3: obviously doing great with that move. And they're they're more

1717
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 3: approximate to Oklahoma City. They're they're a suburb of ok See.

1718
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 3: I'm a season ticket holder there. I am not a

1719
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 3: graduate of either institution, but yeah, that'll be interesting to watch.

1720
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:47,639
Speaker 3: OU seems to be settling in now into that new

1721
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 3: dynamic very well.

1722
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:53,680
Speaker 1: And oh they they OU and Oklahoma State they're just

1723
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: they're not even scheduled to play right, No, I mean the.

1724
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:59,880
Speaker 3: Way college football scheduling works. I mean, if they decided to,

1725
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 3: they probably wouldn't PLAYU til twenty thirty five, So you know, yeah,

1726
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 3: it's it's way off in the future when we will

1727
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:07,160
Speaker 3: see the return of what we call bedlam.

1728
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 2: You know, I know, it was such a I'm these

1729
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 2: I love. I'm a sucker for those college.

1730
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 1: Trophies, the trophy games, the nicknames like the Soklan Oregon

1731
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 1: Oregon State was the Civil War, the Apple Cup like

1732
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: those are you know, and then the fact that we

1733
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 1: got rid of those things is is a bummer. Mayor Holt,

1734
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 1: this was great. If people take away just one thing, man,

1735
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 1: nonpartisan primaries. Yes, this is how you change governing incentives.

1736
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:40,120
Speaker 1: I mean to me this, if this was the most

1737
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 1: important message you could have conveyed, I feel like to

1738
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: anybody listening.

1739
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if I could summon up real quickly on

1740
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 3: that topic, because open primaries, all of these things have

1741
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 3: sort of infinite variations. Here's what I have, what I

1742
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 3: have believed after thinking about this for many, many years,

1743
01:36:57,280 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 3: these are the two principles you need. All the voters

1744
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:01,559
Speaker 3: need to be able to see all the candidates, and

1745
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:04,639
Speaker 3: all the candidates have to face all the voters. If

1746
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:07,160
Speaker 3: your system aligns with those two principles, you're going to

1747
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:08,679
Speaker 3: get much much, much better.

1748
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:11,439
Speaker 2: Outcomes for all of us. There you have it.

1749
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't have said it any better myself.

1750
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 2: Mayer hool thanks a lot, Thank you, Chuck.

1751
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:27,439
Speaker 1: Well. I hope you enjoyed that interview with David Holt.

1752
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:28,599
Speaker 2: I know I did.

1753
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,040
Speaker 1: He's a fellow GWM, so we got we got that

1754
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 1: in common. And I have to tell you, man, GW basketball,

1755
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:41,600
Speaker 1: it's I'm not predicting as good of a season as

1756
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:47,360
Speaker 1: you a football. It's Miami football. But GW is going

1757
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:50,839
Speaker 1: to be. We're gonna be. We're gonna be bubblicious all

1758
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 1: year long. And we've got a fun schedule. My man

1759
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: Chris Caputo, the coach, is put together. I think a

1760
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:00,320
Speaker 1: much tougher strength to schedule, which should out of conference,

1761
01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 1: which should help us in selection selection Sunday when that

1762
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,960
Speaker 1: time rolls around. In fact, my GW Revolutionaries get to

1763
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 1: play the Florida Gators and you know, there's nothing I

1764
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:14,400
Speaker 1: love more than having a team beat the Florida Gators

1765
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 1: in something. So we will have a chance to make

1766
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 1: a mark a little bit in the college basketball world.

1767
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,439
Speaker 1: And Mayor Holtz, you know, if things go really well,

1768
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:29,559
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe maybe Oklahoma City will be a regional

1769
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:33,600
Speaker 1: site in GW can be sent there. But let's go

1770
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:42,120
Speaker 1: into the time machine. It's the toodcast time machine. As

1771
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, this is my history lesson of the week.

1772
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: So it's all about finding important historical things that have

1773
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: happened in this So for this week it was October

1774
01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 1: sixth through the twelfth, and so we're going to go

1775
01:38:56,479 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 1: back in the podcast time machine October eleventh, nineteen ninety one.

1776
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 1: It is the day that a woman named Anita Hill

1777
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 1: testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee about being sexually harassed

1778
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:13,759
Speaker 1: in the workplace by the a nominee for the Supreme

1779
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:18,760
Speaker 1: Court named Judge Clarence Thomas. It was a packed Senate

1780
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: Judiciary room. She was a young law professor at the moment,

1781
01:39:23,080 --> 01:39:28,560
Speaker 1: Anita Hill. She's sitting before an all male Senate Judiciary committee.

1782
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:31,120
Speaker 1: Not a single woman senator. I think at the time

1783
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 1: you had Barbara mcculsky in the Senate, Nancy Cassabam, and

1784
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: I think that was it at the time. But there

1785
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: was no women on the Judiciary Committee themselves. And she

1786
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 1: was prepared to testify under oath about her former boss,

1787
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:54,880
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas, for three days. The country stopped. This is

1788
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:58,400
Speaker 1: a you know, so this is nineteen ninety one. This

1789
01:39:58,479 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: is peak cape this is this is sort of we

1790
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: just got through the Golf War, which was peak cable television,

1791
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 1: and this was sort of right there right this was

1792
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 1: you know, this was and for about a five to

1793
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 1: six year period, you know, you had you had the

1794
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 1: Golf War one, you had the Thomas hearings, and then

1795
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:23,519
Speaker 1: we got to O. J. Simpson in ninety four, but

1796
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 1: it was this was the sort of the peak of

1797
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:28,880
Speaker 1: cable television. But this is before social media, this is

1798
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:34,400
Speaker 1: before smartphones, before the me Too movement. And I might

1799
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 1: now argue, and this is something I'd like you guys

1800
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 1: to ponder, and I'd love to get you reacted that

1801
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:47,960
Speaker 1: this is the Anita Hill testimony is a consequential culturally

1802
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: into society as the Billy g King Bobby Riggs tennis

1803
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:55,880
Speaker 1: match in the seventies when when it came to gender

1804
01:40:55,880 --> 01:41:01,600
Speaker 1: equality and to at least the fight for gender equality

1805
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: on this front. But let me go back through a

1806
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:09,120
Speaker 1: little bit. Because of the situation. What's amazing is that

1807
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:13,760
Speaker 1: we even had an open Supreme Court seat. So third

1808
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: good Marshal who was the first African American nominated the

1809
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 1: Supreme Court by Lyndon Johnson. He decided to retire in

1810
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 1: June of ninety one with a Republican president. But this

1811
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:29,520
Speaker 1: tells you what the political climate was like back then.

1812
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:31,840
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like a big deal. He had a

1813
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:34,639
Speaker 1: Democratic Senate. By the way, this is the last Supreme

1814
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:41,440
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas is the last Supreme Court justice nominated confirmed

1815
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:45,600
Speaker 1: with a where the Senate and the White House are

1816
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 1: controlled by different parties. It was a Democratic controlled Senate

1817
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 1: and a Republican White House. So Marshall says he just

1818
01:41:54,479 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 1: doesn't think he can keep going and he decides to

1819
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:02,680
Speaker 1: retire in June of ninety one. So it meant that

1820
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 1: George HW. Bush forty one, had to make a decision.

1821
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:10,439
Speaker 1: This was the lone African American and the Supreme Court.

1822
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: Now Bush had already successfully nominated and confirmed David Suitor

1823
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:20,120
Speaker 1: to replace Justice Brennan. Suitor was already showing signs that

1824
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 1: he wasn't the conservative that John sunuw who was Bush's

1825
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:26,479
Speaker 1: chief of staff at the time. This is Johnson new Senior,

1826
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:29,760
Speaker 1: former governor of New Hampshire, father of Chris Snunu and

1827
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: Johnny su Nunu who have frequently talked about for New

1828
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,599
Speaker 1: Hampshire politics. David Suitor was a New Hampshire guy and

1829
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:39,439
Speaker 1: Snunu vouched for him, and you know, he was quickly

1830
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 1: already seen as not conservative enough for conservatives.

1831
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 2: So they weren't going to screw this up this time.

1832
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:49,519
Speaker 1: They were going to find a conservative, and there was

1833
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:52,160
Speaker 1: a young African American conservative that was being groomed. He

1834
01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:54,400
Speaker 1: had been fast truck. Clarence Thomas was on the d

1835
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:57,759
Speaker 1: C circuit, which is the place that you fast track

1836
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominees. Forty three years old, very young at

1837
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:05,640
Speaker 1: the time. He only had one year of judicial experience,

1838
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:07,400
Speaker 1: but he had a long resume working in both the

1839
01:43:07,479 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 1: Reagan and Bush administrations. EEOC is where he was working

1840
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: when Anita Hill ended up testifying about her time there.

1841
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 1: And it was during that time. I mean, this is

1842
01:43:18,720 --> 01:43:20,679
Speaker 1: sort of the irony, right, Thomas was serving as chair

1843
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:25,360
Speaker 1: of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission EEOC. This is the

1844
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:33,480
Speaker 1: agency that investigates workplace discrimination. But there he was skeptical

1845
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 1: of affirmative action, and he was already she was showing

1846
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 1: he was much more conservative than David Souter, that was

1847
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:43,320
Speaker 1: going to be clear. But he didn't have a huge

1848
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:46,960
Speaker 1: paper trail, and that was the beginning of you know,

1849
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:49,559
Speaker 1: that was sort of the beginning of this idea, find

1850
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:52,880
Speaker 1: judicial nominees with very little paper trail. And this is now,

1851
01:43:52,920 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 1: of course, how all Supreme Court justices are fired. It's

1852
01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 1: fast tracking. Except so Thomas gets through his initial confirmation hearing.

1853
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:07,160
Speaker 1: The first round of the hearings, they were in September.

1854
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: They were pretty low key, you know. He did what

1855
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 1: most Supreme Court nominees do, said little. When asked about

1856
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade, he claimed he'd never really discussed it.

1857
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:23,040
Speaker 1: Obviously people didn't believe that, but he was not going

1858
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 1: to answer the question. And this was sort of This

1859
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:29,560
Speaker 1: became the norm for Supreme Court justice nominees going forward,

1860
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 1: but his a This was a Democratic led committee. The

1861
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:35,840
Speaker 1: chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee at the time was

1862
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 1: a Delaware Senator named Joseph Urbiden. The committee deadlock seven

1863
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 1: to seven, believe it or not, on the first round

1864
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 1: of the hearings. All six Republicans and one Democrat, Dennis

1865
01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:51,760
Speaker 1: Deaconcini of Arizona at the time, voted yes on the nomination. Now,

1866
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 1: Deaconcini would eventually vote no on Thomas's nomination. He claimed

1867
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 1: that he voted yes simply to allow the committee to

1868
01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 1: be deadlocked so that it could go to the floor

1869
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 1: of the Senate. In a deadlock, you can vote the

1870
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:08,280
Speaker 1: committee after they deadlocked on whether to recommend Thomas for

1871
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 1: the job, to the floor of the Senate. With the deadlock,

1872
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:16,639
Speaker 1: then they vote to let the Senate decide. And then

1873
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:20,920
Speaker 1: came the new story. In October sixth, two reporters Nina

1874
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 1: Totenberg over at MPR Tim Phelps over at Newsday broke

1875
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:29,639
Speaker 1: the bombshell allegations from Anita Hill. This happened on October sixth,

1876
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 1: so things move fast, these allegations. She shared her story

1877
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:38,360
Speaker 1: with the FBI weeks earlier. This was not this was

1878
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 1: something that was already happening, and it finally, finally sort

1879
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:45,439
Speaker 1: of made it into the public record so quickly the

1880
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:49,680
Speaker 1: Senate had to reopen hearings October eleventh, nineteen ninety one.

1881
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,920
Speaker 1: The entire worldwide nobody was watching the Thomas hearings the

1882
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:57,479
Speaker 1: first time. Everybody watched the Thomas hearings the second time.

1883
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,880
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas forty three. Nita Hill thirty five years old.

1884
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 1: She was soft spoken, she was deliberate, She was pretty nervous,

1885
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:07,240
Speaker 1: you could see it. She testified that when she worked

1886
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:10,000
Speaker 1: for Thomas at the Department of Education and later at EEOC,

1887
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:15,240
Speaker 1: she claimed he made repeated sexual remarks, graphically talked about pornography,

1888
01:46:15,840 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 1: talked about body parts, and then, of course one of

1889
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:21,599
Speaker 1: the there there were two sort of sticky viral things

1890
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 1: said during this hearing that that sort of became in

1891
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 1: the cultural lexicon for a while. One was pubic Hair

1892
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:33,000
Speaker 1: on my coke Can, which orne Hatch would argue was

1893
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:39,200
Speaker 1: misremembered from the Exorcist, and then a Corno film that

1894
01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:42,799
Speaker 1: he supposedly described in the workplace called Long Dung Silver.

1895
01:46:45,479 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 1: Now He'll said she followed Thomas. I mean one of

1896
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 1: the things that made her made her some question her

1897
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 1: allegations is that if she didn't like working for him,

1898
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 1: she was uncomfortable, why did she follow him to another job?

1899
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:02,599
Speaker 1: She said she followed Thomas from one job to another

1900
01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 1: out of professional obligation and fear of retaliation. And when

1901
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,920
Speaker 1: she was asked why she didn't come forward sooner, she

1902
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:11,759
Speaker 1: simply said, I had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

1903
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,800
Speaker 1: And any woman that is at that time period, And

1904
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:21,559
Speaker 1: it's really important. I think people understand that there was

1905
01:47:21,680 --> 01:47:25,639
Speaker 1: rhetorically talk of equal treatment of women in the workplace,

1906
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 1: but that didn't mean it was really happening. You know,

1907
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 1: my mother was worked in the seventies. The stories she

1908
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,800
Speaker 1: would tell about the way men treated her in the workplace,

1909
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,560
Speaker 1: We've all seen it. My wife's had her share of

1910
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: stories that she has shared with me over the years.

1911
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: This has been a you know, we can claim it's

1912
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: our grandfather's generation that were worse than our father's generation,

1913
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:55,639
Speaker 1: that are worse than our generation, and that are worse.

1914
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:56,840
Speaker 2: Than my son's tory, etc. Etc.

1915
01:47:57,360 --> 01:48:00,680
Speaker 1: But the fact is it hasn't been equal ninety one.

1916
01:48:01,240 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 1: It is you ask any woman, yes, you know a

1917
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:06,479
Speaker 1: lot to lose because these jobs are there was always

1918
01:48:07,040 --> 01:48:10,280
Speaker 1: a woman a woman's seat. You know, there was this

1919
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:12,560
Speaker 1: perception that there was only room for one woman in

1920
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 1: a managerial position, and so they it just was, it

1921
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,479
Speaker 1: just was a so yes there. It was not surprising

1922
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 1: to women that they'd be like, you know, hey, I

1923
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:25,839
Speaker 1: had a lot to lose here, and I was afraid.

1924
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 1: I think a lot of men did not understand that.

1925
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 1: You could say they chose to not understand it, but

1926
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:34,160
Speaker 1: it was clear a lot of men didn't understand that.

1927
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:39,160
Speaker 1: And she was grilled relentlessly. Arlen Specter accused her of

1928
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 1: lying or in hatch like I said, suggested that the

1929
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:45,960
Speaker 1: pubic hair coke can was something she was remembering from

1930
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:49,599
Speaker 1: the movie The Exorcist. Alan Simpson warned her that she'd

1931
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:55,439
Speaker 1: face a campaign to destroy her reputation, and women were pissed.

1932
01:48:56,520 --> 01:49:00,160
Speaker 1: They were galvanized by this, understandably, but it was the

1933
01:49:00,200 --> 01:49:03,599
Speaker 1: first time that sexual harassment was really talked about publicly

1934
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:07,560
Speaker 1: right there for everybody and everybody.

1935
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 2: Husbands and wives.

1936
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:13,559
Speaker 1: Had uncomfortable conversations, brothers and sisters had uncomfortable A lot

1937
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 1: of men were being educated by women in their lives

1938
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: that hey, I believe in need a hill. That became

1939
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:23,080
Speaker 1: the thing that women would I believe in.

1940
01:49:23,080 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 2: Need a hill.

1941
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:29,680
Speaker 1: Now Thomas saved himself because he did sort of you

1942
01:49:29,680 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 1: know what we now know is the Kavanaugh where you know,

1943
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:37,320
Speaker 1: well Kavanaugh borrowed it from somebody, right, A lot of

1944
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 1: conservatives believe Robert Bork didn't fight hard enough when he

1945
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:43,600
Speaker 1: was up for when he when his confirmation with the

1946
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:48,439
Speaker 1: Supreme Court failed in eighty seven. So Thomas rebutted, and

1947
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 1: he was visibly angry. He called the hearings a high

1948
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:54,200
Speaker 1: tech lynching for upitty blacks who in any way deigned

1949
01:49:54,240 --> 01:50:01,000
Speaker 1: to think for themselves. And look, there weren't many. There

1950
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:04,559
Speaker 1: weren't any African Americans on that set of judiciary panel either,

1951
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 1: let alone win it. And he made he made a

1952
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,160
Speaker 1: lot of He went up there and made it, Hey,

1953
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm being attacked because I'm a conservative black man, and

1954
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:22,280
Speaker 1: so race. So here we had gender and race and

1955
01:50:22,360 --> 01:50:32,519
Speaker 1: ideology all in this toxic political stew And look, the

1956
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:37,360
Speaker 1: public wasn't in favor of Thomas's confirmation, and then after

1957
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 1: Thomas testified, it flipped. It was effective politically. So on

1958
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:49,839
Speaker 1: October fifteenth, four days after she testifies, the Senate confirms

1959
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 1: Thomas fifty two to forty eight, a bipartisan vote, and

1960
01:50:56,400 --> 01:51:05,080
Speaker 1: again Republican president Democratic Senate. You had eleven Democrats voted

1961
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 1: with the Republicans to confirm Thomas. Most of them were

1962
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:15,760
Speaker 1: in the South. Bennett Johnston of Louisiana, Rick Shelby and

1963
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 1: Alabama was a Democrat then he would switch parties in

1964
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,960
Speaker 1: ninety four, but this was ninety one. David Bourne of Oklahoma,

1965
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 1: John Brow of Louisiana, how Efflin of Alabama, Fritz Hollings

1966
01:51:24,479 --> 01:51:27,800
Speaker 1: of South Carolina, Sam Nunn of Georgia, Terry Sanford of

1967
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 1: North Carolina. And then you all said Alan Dixon and

1968
01:51:35,800 --> 01:51:40,120
Speaker 1: Harry Reid. So they were the s votes. Now, interestingly,

1969
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 1: two Republicans voted Noah Thomas. Two Republican senators at the time,

1970
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: Low Wiker of Connecticut, who would later leave the Republican

1971
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:49,480
Speaker 1: Party and win a governorship in Connecticut as an independent,

1972
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,880
Speaker 1: and Jim Jefferts, a Republican for Vermont who would later

1973
01:51:53,080 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 1: leave the party, switch parties and give the Democrats fifty

1974
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:04,639
Speaker 1: to fifty Senate control suding control of the Senate during

1975
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:13,040
Speaker 1: the second Bush term at the time you did have

1976
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:15,160
Speaker 1: those Southern senators. There were sort of two theories of

1977
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:18,559
Speaker 1: the cases. Why did most of the Southern Democratic Senators

1978
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:21,120
Speaker 1: vote to confirm Thomas? One is a lot of them,

1979
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:25,439
Speaker 1: A lot of them thought that. Some of them thought

1980
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 1: there was a political thought out there that African Americans

1981
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,200
Speaker 1: would be upset if they voted against putting another African

1982
01:52:33,240 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 1: American on the court, even though most African Americans were

1983
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:40,200
Speaker 1: actually against the Thomas nomination more on political grounds on

1984
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:41,440
Speaker 1: ideological grounds.

1985
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:43,840
Speaker 2: So there's a little bit of that.

1986
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 1: But the fact is these were all conservative Democrats, and

1987
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 1: many of them today could not get nominations. They were

1988
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:54,000
Speaker 1: very much this is the Southern Conservative. There's sort of

1989
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:58,800
Speaker 1: the last bastion of those few other footnotes on this.

1990
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:05,519
Speaker 1: Anita Hill's never forgiven Joe Biden for how she was

1991
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:10,200
Speaker 1: treated look Biden. Ever, Biden obviously held the hearing he

1992
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 1: chaired the hearing, but she always felt that he didn't

1993
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:15,280
Speaker 1: protect her very well. The way the hearings were held

1994
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 1: put her in vulnerable positions. When he ran for president

1995
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:21,520
Speaker 1: the third time, he called.

1996
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 2: Her to apologize.

1997
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:26,920
Speaker 1: She didn't. She didn't really consider an apology. She said

1998
01:53:26,920 --> 01:53:29,760
Speaker 1: the following, I cannot be satisfied by simply saying I'm

1999
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:32,040
Speaker 1: sorry for what happened to you. The harm was done

2000
01:53:32,120 --> 01:53:34,320
Speaker 1: to more than me, to the integrity of the process,

2001
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:38,240
Speaker 1: and to the confidence women could have in it. Biden

2002
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:40,679
Speaker 1: went further in public when it was clear that Anita

2003
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:43,800
Speaker 1: Hill hadn't really accepted his apology. He said, quote, I

2004
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:45,559
Speaker 1: wish I could have done more to protect her and

2005
01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 1: admitted that she paid a terrible price. But she's still

2006
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:52,400
Speaker 1: pretty pointed in her critique and that Biden's desire for

2007
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 1: bipartisan to COORMA ninety one came at the expense she

2008
01:53:55,360 --> 01:53:57,880
Speaker 1: believes of justice and fairness to her.

2009
01:53:58,920 --> 01:53:59,600
Speaker 2: But look.

2010
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:04,719
Speaker 1: Those hearings. While he got confirmed, it triggered the first

2011
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:08,400
Speaker 1: year of the woman. In ninety two, you had women

2012
01:54:08,439 --> 01:54:12,679
Speaker 1: democratic nominees all over the country. More women were elected

2013
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 1: to the US Senate in that year than any year previous. Ever,

2014
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:24,040
Speaker 1: and the slow march towards equality, sort of gender equity

2015
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:30,320
Speaker 1: in politics began after those hearings, and over time you

2016
01:54:30,360 --> 01:54:33,440
Speaker 1: have seen an increased number of women in politics to

2017
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 1: the point where you've had the state of Nevada had

2018
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 1: a majority of women in the legislature. More women than

2019
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:41,800
Speaker 1: men were serving in the Nevada legislature.

2020
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 2: So it.

2021
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:48,080
Speaker 1: Supercharged the power of Emily's List for about a fifteen

2022
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:53,760
Speaker 1: year period. I mean, it really sort of got them

2023
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,040
Speaker 1: the resources they needed to get more women to run

2024
01:54:56,080 --> 01:54:58,840
Speaker 1: for office. And like I said that, nineteen ninety two,

2025
01:54:59,320 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 1: Senate year Ian Feinstein and Barbara Boxer become the first

2026
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:05,840
Speaker 1: two women elected the US Senate in California. In the

2027
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:08,040
Speaker 1: same year, there was a special election because of the

2028
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:10,840
Speaker 1: Pete Wilson. Pete Wilson was a Senator and got elected governor,

2029
01:55:10,840 --> 01:55:13,520
Speaker 1: and there was there was a temporary Speinstein actually won

2030
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 1: a to your seat. When she won that seat. There

2031
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:19,800
Speaker 1: you had Democratic women nominee who would lose. One would

2032
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:23,160
Speaker 1: lose to Arlen Spector, a woman named Lynn Yakel, but

2033
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 1: a nominee in Pennsylvania. Nonetheless, Geraldine Ferraro running for the

2034
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:32,080
Speaker 1: Senate in New York so it was I remember that

2035
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:36,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Convention that was a huge statement. Barbara Boxer in particular,

2036
01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:38,160
Speaker 1: would say she probably wouldn't have run for the Senate

2037
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: had it not been for the Anita Hill hearings. So

2038
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:47,120
Speaker 1: it really did supercharge a generation of women to go

2039
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:52,080
Speaker 1: into politics. It really empowered Emily's List, And it's just

2040
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 1: a consequential, just extraordinarily consequential moment, and they're still reverb

2041
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 1: today and with when it comes to gender equ it's

2042
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:03,520
Speaker 1: always two steps forward, one step back. And maybe I'm

2043
01:56:03,560 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 1: saying that from a male perspective. I think my wife

2044
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:10,960
Speaker 1: would sometimes say it's three steps forward, two and a

2045
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:14,800
Speaker 1: half steps back. She will acknowledge there's incremental progress, but

2046
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 1: it's it's not the leaps in the bounds that I

2047
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 1: think that many women thought we would be be at

2048
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:28,240
Speaker 1: by now considering what happened in October ninety one. But

2049
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 1: I do think the Anita Hill hearings, they're that there's

2050
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:37,240
Speaker 1: still incredibly consequential. But you know, one other footnote on that,

2051
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:39,480
Speaker 1: so third, good Marshal.

2052
01:56:40,120 --> 01:56:40,800
Speaker 2: You know, these.

2053
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:45,000
Speaker 1: Days, right with the there's still some there's still some

2054
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:49,800
Speaker 1: frustration on the left that Ruth Bader Ginsburg didn't retire

2055
01:56:50,240 --> 01:56:52,760
Speaker 1: while there was a Democratic president while Obama was president

2056
01:56:53,200 --> 01:56:55,320
Speaker 1: to guarantee that her seat went the other way. There

2057
01:56:55,360 --> 01:56:58,840
Speaker 1: was none of that conversation around third Good Marshal. Ironically,

2058
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:02,040
Speaker 1: he would end up dying four days after Bill Clinton

2059
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,160
Speaker 1: took the oath of office in nineteen ninety three. All right,

2060
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:10,520
Speaker 1: there's your podcast time machine. Now, I'm gonna do a

2061
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:15,200
Speaker 1: couple of I'm gonna sneak in two questions. I've gone

2062
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 1: long today because I'm gonna do my little football update

2063
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:21,000
Speaker 1: as well. So let me get my questions here, ask Chuck.

2064
01:57:26,360 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 1: All right, this comes from Dan. He says, Hey, Chuck,

2065
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:32,120
Speaker 1: I have a simple question with Secretary Hegcess Quantico speech

2066
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:34,680
Speaker 1: the first step towards a presidential campaign. Keep up the

2067
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:38,520
Speaker 1: good work, you know, Dan. The answer is yes, he definitely.

2068
01:57:39,160 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 1: It is my understanding that he does think he's running

2069
01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:47,680
Speaker 1: for president. He has had visions of this. I just

2070
01:57:48,040 --> 01:57:57,080
Speaker 1: I will tell you if you're just looking for car

2071
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: crash type of campaign to watch. JD Vance, Pete Haig Seth,

2072
01:58:04,520 --> 01:58:14,680
Speaker 1: Bobby Kennedy, Junior, Tulsea Gabbard, Rand Paul at your Republican

2073
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:19,840
Speaker 1: primary right now, maybe Glenn Youngkin, but just think about that,

2074
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:27,440
Speaker 1: hag Seth. It's I think you're gonna see. But but I,

2075
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:30,480
Speaker 1: in all seriousness, I was talking with some uh some

2076
01:58:30,520 --> 01:58:35,320
Speaker 1: pretty wired conservatives that are kind of MAGA adjacent, and

2077
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:40,480
Speaker 1: there's definitely a growing let's just say, vance world is

2078
01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:46,960
Speaker 1: looking a little side eye at hag Seth. I you know,

2079
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:49,760
Speaker 1: I kind of think that's laughable. I mean, I think

2080
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:53,240
Speaker 1: hag Seth is just isn't going to go anywhere. I

2081
01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:55,640
Speaker 1: don't think there would even be a ton of military

2082
01:58:55,680 --> 01:59:01,080
Speaker 1: support for him. I really don't. I think there's I

2083
01:59:01,120 --> 01:59:04,240
Speaker 1: think that he's just not I mean, he's proven to

2084
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:07,440
Speaker 1: be even more unqualified for this job than folks anticipated.

2085
01:59:08,760 --> 01:59:12,600
Speaker 1: But hey, this is the Donald Trump effect, right, A

2086
01:59:12,640 --> 01:59:15,920
Speaker 1: lot of people now think, hey, why not me? I'm

2087
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:19,240
Speaker 1: looking at you, Paul finebaumb for you a Senate. I

2088
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:21,720
Speaker 1: do think this is the Trump effect where it just

2089
01:59:21,760 --> 01:59:26,040
Speaker 1: made everybody think, hey, I got a closet full of skeletons.

2090
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:29,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, does it. I can go viral. I've

2091
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:33,800
Speaker 1: got this money person or this constituency or this quirkiness,

2092
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:38,000
Speaker 1: and so what if I lose, I'll make money on

2093
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 1: the speaking circuit, or I'll make money being a podcaster.

2094
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:45,240
Speaker 1: By the way, I wouldn't rule out Howard Lucknick Running.

2095
01:59:45,320 --> 01:59:48,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's gotten the bug. I think

2096
01:59:48,920 --> 01:59:53,840
Speaker 1: his ego is just inflating as we go. So it

2097
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 1: could be quite this sort of maga knife fight, which

2098
01:59:58,360 --> 02:00:02,880
Speaker 1: maybe how Glenn youngin end is uphenomenal anyway, Austin from Austin,

2099
02:00:03,200 --> 02:00:05,720
Speaker 1: I've had him before. Hey, Sin say Chuck.

2100
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:06,400
Speaker 2: I like that.

2101
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:09,520
Speaker 1: I've been wrestling with how often we've bent the constitution

2102
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:11,640
Speaker 1: or democratic principles in the name of saving the country,

2103
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:14,400
Speaker 1: the idea that the ends justify the means in an emergency.

2104
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:16,880
Speaker 1: It feels like each time we do, we lose legitimacy,

2105
02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 1: even when it's done by good people. History may vindicate

2106
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:21,400
Speaker 1: Lincoln or FDR, but it still raises a question, if

2107
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:23,800
Speaker 1: we can sidestep our principles, what do they really mean?

2108
02:00:23,880 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 1: I'd love your take. Are there are these ideals too rigid?

2109
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: Or are they the very thing holding it all together? Look,

2110
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you're I feel like I'm we're each preaching

2111
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:35,520
Speaker 1: to each other on this right. I think when you

2112
02:00:35,600 --> 02:00:40,160
Speaker 1: govern by ends justify the means, you know, there's never

2113
02:00:40,720 --> 02:00:42,879
Speaker 1: I was really disturbed right when it was a Senator

2114
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:46,560
Speaker 1: Cynthia Lummas, who says, so, I'm a first amendment person,

2115
02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:50,640
Speaker 1: but sometimes you've got to suspend them. No, there's no sometimes, right,

2116
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: the Bill of Rights is the Bill of rights. You know,

2117
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:56,200
Speaker 1: there is no sometimes the Constitution is there, there is

2118
02:00:56,240 --> 02:01:04,040
Speaker 1: no sometimes, And you know this is I continue to

2119
02:01:04,080 --> 02:01:06,080
Speaker 1: believe that in the next ten years we are going

2120
02:01:06,120 --> 02:01:11,240
Speaker 1: to see more folks, more serious reformers, left right and center,

2121
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:16,160
Speaker 1: pushing for a constitutional convention, realizing that we got to

2122
02:01:16,200 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 1: put we got to put more of these rules in

2123
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:20,720
Speaker 1: the constitution, not less. We got to probably put some

2124
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:22,640
Speaker 1: of these norms that we thought everybody was going to

2125
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:26,960
Speaker 1: bide by and make them constitutional amendments. And we've if

2126
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:30,960
Speaker 1: there is going to be bending, then propose an amendment.

2127
02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:34,520
Speaker 1: Don't bend it, right, propose an amendment, and let's see

2128
02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:36,680
Speaker 1: if if this is the way we have it. But

2129
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:40,040
Speaker 1: I think we need a good civics lesson on the Constitution,

2130
02:01:40,400 --> 02:01:44,720
Speaker 1: a good reminder that that's that's our rule book, and

2131
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:48,240
Speaker 1: that's you know, there is no suspending or bending or

2132
02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:51,040
Speaker 1: any of those things. And then when you start to

2133
02:01:51,040 --> 02:01:58,200
Speaker 1: do it, you're you're only rationalizing your political opponents to

2134
02:01:58,240 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 1: do the same thing. And when we go about this

2135
02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:02,800
Speaker 1: and again it goes back.

2136
02:02:02,800 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 2: Our incentives are horrible.

2137
02:02:04,680 --> 02:02:08,280
Speaker 1: So you know, ultimately, I do think this begins with

2138
02:02:08,360 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 1: electoral reform. If we're tired of these horrible decisions being

2139
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:16,560
Speaker 1: made by ideologues, then we have to change the incentives

2140
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:19,640
Speaker 1: for the electorate, change the incentives for politicians so they're

2141
02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:22,600
Speaker 1: not so ideologically rigid when the government right now they

2142
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:26,839
Speaker 1: get away with it because they have found the voters

2143
02:02:26,880 --> 02:02:30,280
Speaker 1: that want them to. If we can have more voters

2144
02:02:30,280 --> 02:02:32,839
Speaker 1: involved in this process of who decides who's our leaders,

2145
02:02:33,480 --> 02:02:36,200
Speaker 1: because right now we don't. We need more voters involved

2146
02:02:36,200 --> 02:02:39,640
Speaker 1: in these decisions, not less. And until we get more

2147
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:42,000
Speaker 1: voters involved with the decisions of electing our leaders, we're

2148
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:46,360
Speaker 1: going to have more and more of this end justifies

2149
02:02:46,440 --> 02:02:50,080
Speaker 1: the means thwarting of the Constitution.

2150
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:51,280
Speaker 2: All right, I'm.

2151
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:58,720
Speaker 1: Gonna give my quick little college football update. So I am.

2152
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:04,400
Speaker 1: If I was just doing University of Miami football talk,

2153
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:07,320
Speaker 1: I'd say, boy, the system really hates Miami. What more

2154
02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:09,240
Speaker 1: does Miami have to do to prove they're the number

2155
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 1: one team in the country. Right They've easily now have

2156
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:15,480
Speaker 1: the best resume of anybody out there, the resume is

2157
02:03:15,520 --> 02:03:19,720
Speaker 1: better than Oregon's, right Penn State losing the UCLA. Meanwhile,

2158
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:22,360
Speaker 1: the people that Miami's beaten have gone on to beat

2159
02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:27,520
Speaker 1: good teams. Florida beats Texas, Notre Dame as beaten Boise State.

2160
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:32,360
Speaker 1: Let's see what Florida does against Texas, A and m

2161
02:03:32,440 --> 02:03:37,120
Speaker 1: for what it's worth. So, you know, but I'm personally

2162
02:03:37,160 --> 02:03:39,400
Speaker 1: as a fan, I don't want Miami rank number one, yet.

2163
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:40,560
Speaker 1: I want to be number one at the end of

2164
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:44,520
Speaker 1: the season. I don't give a damn about now. I

2165
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,000
Speaker 1: get a little The only thing I get a little

2166
02:03:46,000 --> 02:03:48,600
Speaker 1: nervous about with Miami is the ability to close out

2167
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:53,440
Speaker 1: these games. I feel like we overthink everything. Gets It's like,

2168
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:58,320
Speaker 1: come on, coach Crystal Ball, let's you know, let's uh,

2169
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:01,360
Speaker 1: we need a better for minute offense. We need a

2170
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:04,480
Speaker 1: better six minute offense. We need a few more you know.

2171
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:06,200
Speaker 1: It was a it was a weird set of play

2172
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:09,960
Speaker 1: calls there when we were trying to not have to

2173
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:13,040
Speaker 1: give the ball back to Florida State in that fourth quarter.

2174
02:04:13,160 --> 02:04:17,920
Speaker 1: So I am still slightly nervous that there is a

2175
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:21,000
Speaker 1: dumb game that we're going to lose. Playing this game

2176
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:23,840
Speaker 1: of sort of just trying to run out the clock,

2177
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:28,280
Speaker 1: so I might, you know, and you know, while the

2178
02:04:28,360 --> 02:04:30,280
Speaker 1: remainder of our schedule is not as hard as our

2179
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:33,200
Speaker 1: first five games, so a couple of trap trap games

2180
02:04:33,240 --> 02:04:35,680
Speaker 1: in there that I'm nervous about. Louisville on a Friday night.

2181
02:04:35,720 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: At least it's in Miami. That comes up in two weeks.

2182
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:41,480
Speaker 1: SMU at SMU and November first, that's a big deal

2183
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 1: to SMU. That's a home game, that's a night game

2184
02:04:44,600 --> 02:04:47,480
Speaker 1: that could be really wild for them. Uh. And then

2185
02:04:47,600 --> 02:04:50,320
Speaker 1: I hate playing Pitt. You never know what you gotta get.

2186
02:04:50,520 --> 02:04:53,879
Speaker 1: Pitt kicked my button betting this week. They bench a quarterback,

2187
02:04:53,960 --> 02:04:56,200
Speaker 1: start a true freshmen, and they're better.

2188
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:00,480
Speaker 2: So but I have to tie.

2189
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:04,440
Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about my Hurricanes, and I just

2190
02:05:04,640 --> 02:05:06,200
Speaker 1: hope they get a chance to prove it in the

2191
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 1: playoff and let's see what they do. They have all

2192
02:05:10,240 --> 02:05:11,000
Speaker 1: of the elements.

2193
02:05:11,320 --> 02:05:11,840
Speaker 2: Ruben Bain.

2194
02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:14,200
Speaker 1: When I'm watching the game live, I watch Ruben Bain.

2195
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:18,360
Speaker 1: He's my favorite player to watch, the man is he.

2196
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:22,560
Speaker 1: I think Ruben Bain is to these Hurricanes what Ed

2197
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 1: Reid was to the last great Marian Hurricane team. And

2198
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:27,320
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one, yes, I have to

2199
02:05:27,320 --> 02:05:29,560
Speaker 1: go back twenty four years and have a great Marian

2200
02:05:29,640 --> 02:05:34,040
Speaker 1: Hurricane team. But he is, He's he just he's relentless,

2201
02:05:34,240 --> 02:05:35,280
Speaker 1: he's never quitting.

2202
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:36,800
Speaker 2: He is.

2203
02:05:37,600 --> 02:05:40,120
Speaker 1: I may get nervous where for some reason ruben Bain's

2204
02:05:40,120 --> 02:05:42,760
Speaker 1: not gonna let us lose a game. He's just not

2205
02:05:42,920 --> 02:05:45,400
Speaker 1: gonna let it happen. And then there's just so many

2206
02:05:45,440 --> 02:05:49,240
Speaker 1: playmakers on offense. Beck's getting better every week, he really is.

2207
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:55,400
Speaker 1: I've I've been cautiously skeptical, optimistically skeptical. I'm losing more

2208
02:05:55,440 --> 02:05:59,200
Speaker 1: skepticism all the time. Now, maybe I'd be a great

2209
02:05:59,280 --> 02:06:01,440
Speaker 1: quarterback if I had the time he has behind that

2210
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:05,000
Speaker 1: amazing offensive line. But the fact of the matter is

2211
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:07,200
Speaker 1: Miami's got these playmakers He's getting in their hands. A

2212
02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:10,160
Speaker 1: four touchdown game is a fo against Florida State on

2213
02:06:10,200 --> 02:06:14,600
Speaker 1: the road. It's Heisman moment that I might argue ruben

2214
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:17,720
Speaker 1: Bain for Heisman, and I have a feeling if Miami had.

2215
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 2: My only concern for the ruben Bain.

2216
02:06:19,360 --> 02:06:21,880
Speaker 1: Heisman campaign is he's not gonna be on TV enough

2217
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:25,480
Speaker 1: in those primetime spots because we don't have great end

2218
02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:27,880
Speaker 1: of the you know now, and the vote is before

2219
02:06:27,920 --> 02:06:34,240
Speaker 1: the playoff, right, but it is it is. I sure

2220
02:06:34,240 --> 02:06:36,320
Speaker 1: hope he gets invited to New York. Put it that way.

2221
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:38,280
Speaker 1: I think the guy's been that dominant and it's pretty

2222
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 1: clear he's going to be a top five pick. And

2223
02:06:40,280 --> 02:06:42,240
Speaker 1: if no quarterback, you know, we know the quarterbacks always

2224
02:06:42,320 --> 02:06:44,640
Speaker 1: end up going, you know, unless it's a team, you know,

2225
02:06:44,680 --> 02:06:46,800
Speaker 1: unless somehow the Giants end up with the number one

2226
02:06:46,840 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 1: overall pick and they're happy with Dart. But uh, Ruben

2227
02:06:51,400 --> 02:06:53,680
Speaker 1: Bay is going to be something else. Ruben bain Is

2228
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:59,280
Speaker 1: is Miles Garrett, Jared Burst, Michael Parsons. He's going to

2229
02:06:59,320 --> 02:07:01,320
Speaker 1: have that kind of impact when he gets to the

2230
02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:06,640
Speaker 1: when he gets to the NFL. Fun little idea. I

2231
02:07:06,640 --> 02:07:10,040
Speaker 1: think Penn State and Clemson out of trade coaches. Diabos

2232
02:07:10,080 --> 02:07:12,800
Speaker 1: were out as welcome at Clemson. James Franklin's weren out

2233
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:14,720
Speaker 1: as welcome at Penn State. These are two very good

2234
02:07:14,720 --> 02:07:17,480
Speaker 1: coaches who need a change of scenery. These are high

2235
02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:20,720
Speaker 1: level coaches. I don't think that they should be you know, look,

2236
02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:26,680
Speaker 1: Franklin just it's an unexplainable loss. It reminds me of

2237
02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:32,120
Speaker 1: the last six years of Miami seasons, where where when

2238
02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:35,400
Speaker 1: we lost one game, it immediately we lost a second game.

2239
02:07:35,680 --> 02:07:38,240
Speaker 1: Right that that was the sort of for whatever the

2240
02:07:38,280 --> 02:07:41,840
Speaker 1: previous coaching staffs just couldn't seem to figure out how

2241
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:44,600
Speaker 1: to get over losses, and one loss created a second

2242
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:46,040
Speaker 1: and that's what this one felt.

2243
02:07:45,760 --> 02:07:47,160
Speaker 2: Like with there.

2244
02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:49,960
Speaker 1: But I get it the money people that there's going

2245
02:07:50,000 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 1: to be sort of there's only there's only so much time.

2246
02:07:52,920 --> 02:07:54,919
Speaker 2: But just trade.

2247
02:07:55,720 --> 02:07:59,080
Speaker 1: I think, you know, look Bower, Florida looking for a coach.

2248
02:07:59,320 --> 02:08:02,200
Speaker 1: I go get James Franklin. I'd go look at Dabo Sweety.

2249
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:04,760
Speaker 1: I think both of them might benefit from a change

2250
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:08,360
Speaker 1: of sceener. Just something to think about. But I'm thinking

2251
02:08:08,400 --> 02:08:12,320
Speaker 1: about that. I have a complain about bad analytics. In

2252
02:08:12,360 --> 02:08:17,560
Speaker 1: the Iowa State Cincinnati game, it was Cincinnati. They were up,

2253
02:08:20,720 --> 02:08:24,320
Speaker 1: they were up thirty one twenty two. They score a

2254
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:28,040
Speaker 1: touchdown and they decide not to go for two but

2255
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:30,040
Speaker 1: kick the extra point to go up thirty eight twenty

2256
02:08:30,040 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: two and go up sixteen. I was like screaming for them.

2257
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:37,080
Speaker 1: Now I had Cincinnati on the money line. I just

2258
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:38,720
Speaker 1: wanted them to win, but I was screaming for them,

2259
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:41,920
Speaker 1: go for two, go up. If you get it, you're

2260
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:46,000
Speaker 1: up seventeen, you're up three scores. If you miss it,

2261
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:47,600
Speaker 1: you're still up fifteen. They still got to get at

2262
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:50,960
Speaker 1: least one two point conversion. You're still up two scores.

2263
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:54,000
Speaker 1: But if it's sixteight, you know it's two scores. The

2264
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:56,440
Speaker 1: difference beween, fifteen and sixteen at that point is nothing,

2265
02:08:56,520 --> 02:09:01,200
Speaker 1: but the difference between fifth, sixteen and seventeen is everything. Anyway,

2266
02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:04,160
Speaker 1: And I was staged just the type of team that

2267
02:09:04,240 --> 02:09:08,000
Speaker 1: and sure enough got to thirty eight thirty and it

2268
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:10,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. There could have been thirty nine thirty,

2269
02:09:10,760 --> 02:09:12,680
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't have mattered. If they got the ball

2270
02:09:12,680 --> 02:09:14,840
Speaker 1: back one more time, they wouldn't have had a chance

2271
02:09:14,960 --> 02:09:15,920
Speaker 1: to tie the game.

2272
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:16,320
Speaker 2: Anyway.

2273
02:09:16,760 --> 02:09:19,000
Speaker 1: Just I was watching that game while waiting for the

2274
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:23,560
Speaker 1: four state game, and I wanted that out there, big bummer.

2275
02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:26,640
Speaker 1: I want a quick, big bummer for the University of Maryland.

2276
02:09:27,040 --> 02:09:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm always hopeful that the DMV here will become more

2277
02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:32,720
Speaker 1: excited about college football. And it only happens if Maryland

2278
02:09:32,720 --> 02:09:35,520
Speaker 1: can be sustainably good, or if UVA or Virginia Tech

2279
02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:38,560
Speaker 1: gets good again, and while UVA is playing the part,

2280
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:42,120
Speaker 1: and maybe there's a Miami UVA ACC title game in

2281
02:09:42,120 --> 02:09:47,640
Speaker 1: our future. Maryland. Maryland again. They blew a twenty point lead,

2282
02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:51,160
Speaker 1: lose to Washington, and now they're a meme man Maryland.

2283
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:53,920
Speaker 1: This is like the umpteenth time they start out undefeated

2284
02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:57,880
Speaker 1: in September. Literally the calendar changes to October, and like

2285
02:09:57,960 --> 02:10:02,440
Speaker 1: the government, they shut down. It's a bummer on Maryland

2286
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:04,680
Speaker 1: because I got a lot of Maryland friends who swear

2287
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:07,960
Speaker 1: Maryland could be a good college football program, if only

2288
02:10:09,440 --> 02:10:13,520
Speaker 1: so another fun week. I am not traveling to the

2289
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:16,720
Speaker 1: next Miami game, as tempting as it might be, but

2290
02:10:16,840 --> 02:10:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit exhausted. I'm taking a couple of

2291
02:10:18,640 --> 02:10:20,080
Speaker 1: week break, but i still got a couple more on

2292
02:10:20,080 --> 02:10:24,280
Speaker 1: the calendar. I'm going to SMU, going to homecoming for Syracuse.

2293
02:10:24,360 --> 02:10:27,040
Speaker 1: Might sneak in one more. We'll see you, know, this

2294
02:10:27,120 --> 02:10:31,840
Speaker 1: middle aged guy and these little puddle jumpers. I'll admit

2295
02:10:32,040 --> 02:10:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting a little bit at tired, So with that,

2296
02:10:34,160 --> 02:10:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to sneak in some rest. I'll see you

2297
02:10:35,840 --> 02:10:37,920
Speaker 1: in about forty eight hours until we upload again.