Speaker 1: Call Zon Media.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is me in the future. This is recorded
Speaker 2: in the now halcyon days of January twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Lots of things have changed. Basically everything everywhere has gotten worse.
Speaker 2: This is the story about the oppression of Trends people
Speaker 2: in the United Kingdom that is very bleak. In many ways,
Speaker 2: United Kingdom has gotten worse since then. The UK Supreme
Speaker 2: Court has ruled that the definition of sex and the
Speaker 2: Equality Act of twenty ten is quote binary and is
Speaker 2: decided by quote biological sex. So whatever the sex that
Speaker 2: some fucking doctor assigns you at birth is your sex
Speaker 2: specifically under the Equalities Act. A bunch of people in
Speaker 2: the UK have decided that this means that the courts
Speaker 2: have ruled that like sex in general means quote unquote
Speaker 2: biological sex. That's actually not what they ruled, but they're
Speaker 2: doing anyways. So there's been a whole bunch of things where,
Speaker 2: for example, the Labor Party has started purging Trends women
Speaker 2: from any like one of their bodies that's supposed to
Speaker 2: be a woman's body. So through the oppression of trans
Speaker 2: people continues to escalate. Yeah, our only path out is
Speaker 2: just open and active resistance. Against them in a more
Speaker 2: positive notes, Mira, our guest for this episode, has since
Speaker 2: since this episode, has struck out on her own and
Speaker 2: is now the mind and genius behind the outlet Free Radical.
Speaker 2: She will link to here and you should go support
Speaker 2: her work because it's great. Now to our episode, it's
Speaker 2: it could happen here a podcast that is.
Speaker 3: Largely about the US.
Speaker 4: That might that might exaggerate the ex sat to which
Speaker 4: is about the US, but it is. Most episodes are
Speaker 4: about the US, but sometimes it's about other places. And
Speaker 4: one of the frequent places that it's about is the
Speaker 4: United Kingdom, And specifically we're gonna talk about the United
Speaker 4: Kingdom because the UK is both an image of the
Speaker 4: present and the future of the oppression of trans people.
Speaker 4: And there have been in a bunch of just absolutely
Speaker 4: horrible things happening there that have gotten very little press attention.
Speaker 4: And one of the one of those things is what
Speaker 4: appears to be a like I guess I would call
Speaker 4: it like a two stage cover up of a bunch
Speaker 4: of suicides of trans kids on waiting list for healthcare.
Speaker 4: And with me to talk about this fucking terrible shit
Speaker 4: is Mira Lasine, who's a freelance trans journalist Miro. Welcome
Speaker 4: to the show.
Speaker 3: Great to be here, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, I mean, God, this is one of those
Speaker 4: I always am excited to talk to people, but I
Speaker 4: swear to God, like one of the every four times
Speaker 4: this happens, it's like a I have to pull it,
Speaker 4: do you? I want to say, I'm excited to talk
Speaker 4: to you about this because, like Jesus christis is the
Speaker 4: most depressing shit I've seen in ages.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a fun story. It's an important one,
Speaker 3: probably one of the most important I've ever borded on,
Speaker 3: but not remotely fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So let's go back to the how I'll see in
Speaker 4: days of mid twenty twenty four. I don't know, thanks
Speaker 4: for she really bad then too, but they're worse now,
Speaker 4: but they were.
Speaker 3: Also bad then.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So can you talk a bit about how this
Speaker 4: story started and about what was going on with the
Speaker 4: National Health Service, the NHS, which is the British basically
Speaker 4: the British healthcare system is run out of National Health Service.
Speaker 4: Can you talk about the whistleblowers there and what was
Speaker 4: going on with them?
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I first became aware of whats going on independently,
Speaker 3: I was working with Alejandra Carabio, the clinical instructor of
Speaker 3: cyber Law Clanic at Harvard. She's a friend of mine
Speaker 3: and we worked together on subjects. She and Ira and
Speaker 3: almost some other people were talking about the horrific wait
Speaker 3: lists going on with the NHS. It's terrible there, I
Speaker 3: mean not even just for trance stuff, throwing millions of
Speaker 3: reports of people having to wait months to get essential healthcare.
Speaker 3: Some people have died just from like their conditions being
Speaker 3: on the wait list. We had both stumbled upon some
Speaker 3: old news reports from like years prior about trans kids
Speaker 3: who had unfortunately committed suicide as a result of not
Speaker 3: getting the essential health plague they need on the waitlist.
Speaker 3: These stories are not talked about their media at all.
Speaker 3: They got like one art mentioned ning what happened to them,
Speaker 3: and then that was it. So we started to investigate it.
Speaker 3: She was compiling a spreadsheet of everything she could find,
Speaker 3: every news report of kids who experienced this. I was
Speaker 3: pitching help and contribute to that spreadsheets. And then right
Speaker 3: around the same time, the director then of the Good
Speaker 3: Law Project, a civil rights organization that does a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff in the United Kingdom his name is
Speaker 3: Jolyn Mongham apologized if I mispronounced that. He came out
Speaker 3: with a Twitter thread revealing and this was very suddenly.
Speaker 3: He hadn't contacted anyone about this. He just kind of
Speaker 3: posted it right when he got enough of a story
Speaker 3: and everything. He revealed that he was talking to a
Speaker 3: couple of whistleblowers within the NHS about what was going down.
Speaker 3: And not only did he talk to some whistleblowers, but
Speaker 3: he also gained some independent evidence from himself his own investigation,
Speaker 3: from meeting minutes from officials in the NHS, and so
Speaker 3: what he found kind of began with the first whistle blower.
Speaker 3: This one was someone who did not reveal much about
Speaker 3: who they were publicly and presumably to protect your job.
Speaker 3: But Logan said that with his whistleblowers, he independently confirmed
Speaker 3: that they did worked for the NHS. He saw their
Speaker 3: ideas Mohm's up typic guy to lie. He's a trusted
Speaker 3: figure in the UK political scene. First one said that
Speaker 3: there was only one reported suicide prior to twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Significance of twenty twenty in relation to Shrethelthcare at Nited
Speaker 3: Kingdom was that the infamous case Bell versus Tatistock. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to go into detail of this case because
Speaker 3: it convoluted messy and hellish, but the gist of it
Speaker 3: is that it led to tightened restrictions on gender perman
Speaker 3: careacter miners, particularly in the new realm of puberty blockers.
Speaker 3: This ruling ended up kind of restricting how might act
Speaker 3: ass puberty walkers. Some it was a leader overturned, but
Speaker 3: it already led to lasting damage. Even after it was overturned.
Speaker 3: A lot of doctors for hensigent to even prescribed purbity
Speaker 3: blockers because they were worried about political consequences. So a
Speaker 3: lot of miners weren't getting the care they need.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we should also mention here too, because I
Speaker 4: think this has been lost in a lot of the
Speaker 4: reporting on this because like I mean, I guess this
Speaker 4: is the story where a lot of the reporting was
Speaker 4: done by trans people just because like nobody gives a shit.
Speaker 4: But like, the thing about puberty blockers is that puberty
Speaker 4: blockers with the healthcare of trans youth were always a
Speaker 4: sort of compromise measure that was, you know, sort of
Speaker 4: put in place as a compromise of like instead of
Speaker 4: letting kids actually transition and like, you know, go on hormones,
Speaker 4: which is, you know, the thing that kids like need,
Speaker 4: right if your goal is to like improve the health
Speaker 4: outcomes of trans kids, like the thing you actually want
Speaker 4: for them, like maximally is for them to have the
Speaker 4: ability to get gender affirming hormones. But you know, the
Speaker 4: sort of the sort of compromised thing that was happenings like, well,
Speaker 4: you could have puberty blockers, but you know, you can
Speaker 4: start horp buns later, and that is not a good
Speaker 4: compromise to begin with, but losing it is even worse
Speaker 4: because the alternative to that is, like you are now
Speaker 4: spending even more time with a bunch of fucking hormones
Speaker 4: in your system that you don't want, more of, more
Speaker 4: of the hormones that you fucking want, and you know
Speaker 4: you're getting you're being forced to go through puberty, which
Speaker 4: fucking sucks. Shit if you're going through I don't know,
Speaker 4: I don't know if the wrong puberty is like the
Speaker 4: correct language or whatever, but like it fucking sucks. It's awful.
Speaker 4: And but now you know, and this is just something
Speaker 4: that's happening in the US too. It's also happening in
Speaker 4: the UK is that the compromised solutions are being knocked
Speaker 4: out and we're seeing the sort of knock on effects
Speaker 4: of these kids losing even the sort of compromise stuff
Speaker 4: they're supposed to be getting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they used deep bogus justifications for this, or
Speaker 3: like we don't see any benefits of puberty blockers, and
Speaker 3: it's like, the point is not that they are benefiting
Speaker 3: these kids directly. No kid is like, oh boy, I
Speaker 3: get to be five years behind on puberty from my peers,
Speaker 3: I get to look like a ten year old while
Speaker 3: all my peers have full on beam everything. Oh boy.
Speaker 3: Like no, but the point is that these kids are
Speaker 3: being deprived of the care they absolutely need to stay
Speaker 3: it live, and it's being targeted just for the sole
Speaker 3: purpose of getting cheap politicals from what are the hells
Speaker 3: in office? Yeah, but more back to the whistleblowers. So
Speaker 3: prior to twenty twenty, when the Belvy Tavistock ruling came
Speaker 3: into effect, only one transmitter died from suicide. I don't
Speaker 3: quite remember how I framed the used estimated, but it
Speaker 3: was broader than the one they used after. I believe
Speaker 3: it was like seven years I think, and the years
Speaker 3: after which was measured up to like the very beginning
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four, like Chaneu were twenty twenty four,
Speaker 3: so not even four years, more like three years and
Speaker 3: twne months. They recorded sixteen debts. Yeah, sixteen transgender minors
Speaker 3: committed to suicide, and they were all able to be
Speaker 3: linked to restrictions on computy quarters and NHS wave lists.
Speaker 3: This whistle blower says this data came directly from a
Speaker 3: doctor who analyzes just stuck professionally, is like part of
Speaker 3: his job in the NHS. The doctor also wanted to
Speaker 3: be anonymous, understandably, he named himself the quote named doctor
Speaker 3: for Safeguarding should. He tried to warn people in the
Speaker 3: NHS about this. He was like, hey, there's something wrong.
Speaker 3: This isn't right. We are fucking up. And he talked
Speaker 3: to so many different people, including doctor Hillary Cass, who
Speaker 3: will talk a bit about later.
Speaker 4: This is a literary device called foreshadowy, ETCETERA giant clip
Speaker 4: flashing big here, giant ominous music surrounding her name does
Speaker 4: He just warned of.
Speaker 3: People basically, and they all ignored him. They all just
Speaker 3: according to him. And this is all I have to say.
Speaker 3: You know, this has not been verified in the court
Speaker 3: of law or anything. This is according to the whistleblowers
Speaker 3: in Mongham, but we have no reason to believe they
Speaker 3: lied or fabricated this information about this was not even
Speaker 3: revealed publicly. There's no public outcry. There was no action
Speaker 3: taken by the NHS or any of the clinics. So
Speaker 3: that is the first whistle blower and the whistleblower's connection
Speaker 3: to that doctor. The second one basically can and gave
Speaker 3: independent verification of this. They were like, yeah, I've seen
Speaker 3: the data for myself too, I can confirm this is legitimate.
Speaker 3: Now it wasn't just these three staff members who were
Speaker 3: trying to raise a larm bells. According to the second
Speaker 3: whistle blower, staff and the NHS were like, hey, well
Speaker 3: this is not cool. We need to do something, and
Speaker 3: so they got an open letter, sent it to their
Speaker 3: higher ups and reportedly the director of the Tavistock Clinic,
Speaker 3: which was at the time the only gender affirming care
Speaker 3: clinics for minors in the entire United Kingdom. Since that
Speaker 3: is more opened up, but it's a really complicated thing.
Speaker 3: That's a headache to deal with. But head honchos at
Speaker 3: Papa Stock completely retapliated. They threatened them a discipline interaction,
Speaker 3: they suppressed maturial. They're basically were like, you go public
Speaker 3: about this, if you continue talking about this, you're gonna
Speaker 3: face consequences.
Speaker 4: The thing, the thing I instantly came to mind here,
Speaker 4: and I think it's just specifically because of number sixteen,
Speaker 4: but like the first time I read this, the first
Speaker 4: thing that came to my mind was there, you know,
Speaker 4: there's the sort of famous Chicago story of the police
Speaker 4: killing of the Clint McDonald where the slogan afterwards was
Speaker 4: sixteen shots and a cover up. And this is fucking
Speaker 4: sixteen deaded to cover up. And the about a fucking
Speaker 4: rage that I have for all for this, all of
Speaker 4: this fucking shit, that these people covered this up, that
Speaker 4: they knew this was happening, and we're just like and
Speaker 4: not only knew this was happening and not only didn't
Speaker 4: do anything about it, but like actively he contributed to
Speaker 4: fucking making it worse by threatening anyone to try to
Speaker 4: talk about it. Is just so unbelievably disgusting. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: was the first one who broke the story. I basically
Speaker 4: reported on it, like almost immediately after Malgam went public
Speaker 4: about this, because I knew not many people were going
Speaker 4: to report on this right away and it was going
Speaker 4: to kind of be a headache.
Speaker 3: I didn't know how you would, but I was the
Speaker 3: first one to report on it. I did it for
Speaker 3: jeuerlest Aaron read subsect Ara in the morning back in
Speaker 3: June of last year, and I had to stop writing
Speaker 3: it multiple times, like I spent the entire day thing
Speaker 3: on it, because it was stomach wrenching reading some of
Speaker 3: these stories and doing everything. The only reason I even
Speaker 3: got through it was because I dissociated the entire time
Speaker 3: and just kind of compartmentalized the anger of bunch Beta.
Speaker 3: It's like Jesus Christ, this is horrifying. But Margin was
Speaker 3: not talking out of his ass with this too. He
Speaker 3: brought receipts right in the initial thread, showed leaked to
Speaker 3: meeting minutes, and like you can see water marks from
Speaker 3: the NHS on these meeting minutes. Like it is unless
Speaker 3: someone wants to suggest that he did a giant conspiracy
Speaker 3: and fabricated a bunch of very accurate meeting minutes that
Speaker 3: reflect publicly available meeting minutes elsewhere, it's pretty reputable. Yeah,
Speaker 3: these minutes show that any test officials were aware of
Speaker 3: every single one of these debts, every single one of them.
Speaker 3: People were in these meetings calling for an independent investigation
Speaker 3: into each of these debts, into gender affirming care pro miners,
Speaker 3: into restrictions. They wanted to investigate everything and had detailed data.
Speaker 3: They had information on the type of care they received,
Speaker 3: which was basically negligence, and instead of reporting on this publicly,
Speaker 3: instead of doing an investigation, they covered this up. They
Speaker 3: didn't do anything, and they just pretended like everything was fine,
Speaker 3: like there was no debts as a result of this.
Speaker 3: They were acting nothing wrong was going on. And these
Speaker 3: meeting minutes are still public too. Magan is not believe in.
Speaker 3: It's still on his Twitter account. Good Law Project is
Speaker 3: not fully any more of the kind of dissolving their
Speaker 3: stuff right now, but Magan is still keeping all information up.
Speaker 3: It's all detailed, it's publicly there. People can see for
Speaker 3: themselves these minutes, and it's horrifying seeing the physical proof.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's horrifying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And we need to go to ads and when
Speaker 4: we come back, we'll get to the second fucking cover up,
Speaker 4: because there was a second one. Did it again? This
Speaker 4: time with the British Broadcasting What the fuck does the
Speaker 4: C stand for corporation? That one British broadcast in corporation
Speaker 4: leading the charge and we are back. So let's talk
Speaker 4: about the fucking second cover up because normally, normally you
Speaker 4: only get one cover up when your fucking health care
Speaker 4: policies kill a bunch of people, but no, two, they
Speaker 4: got multiple cover ups. Before we get to the second
Speaker 4: cover up, we need to talk about what the CAST
Speaker 4: Report is, because that's also part of this that we
Speaker 4: kind of bounced around a little bit but then didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so the CAST Report is probably one of
Speaker 3: the worst things to come out at the anti trans
Speaker 3: crowd in the past decade. Yeah. The gist of it
Speaker 3: is it's essentially a supplusively independent report commissioned by the
Speaker 3: Knighting government to investigate the efficacy of hubery blockers and
Speaker 3: gender heerman character minors, authored by doctor Hillard Cass, who
Speaker 3: they claim is an expert in this subject. I'll get
Speaker 3: to that in the second. Yeah, the gist of what
Speaker 3: it was claiming is that nope, puberty blockers do anything.
Speaker 3: They actually hurt the kids, they don't improve mental health,
Speaker 3: they don't protect anything. Suicides stay the same, it's all bad.
Speaker 3: Get rid of them and actually restrict gender referman care too,
Speaker 3: and also maybe we should detransition these kids too. It's
Speaker 3: a very long document. It's actually a set of documents,
Speaker 3: but the primary one isn't incredibly long. I remember when
Speaker 3: it first it came out last year. It's been in
Speaker 3: the works for the better part of the last decade,
Speaker 3: most of the twenty ten's it's been in the works.
Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact year that it was initially commissioned,
Speaker 3: but it's been something the United Kingdom government has been
Speaker 3: waiting on for a while to take action for gender
Speaker 3: reforming care. Now, to understand the Cast report, you gotta
Speaker 3: understand a little bit about Hillary Casts. Hillary cass is
Speaker 3: not an expert in gender firming care form. She has
Speaker 3: never treated a transgender patient in her professional practice whatsoever.
Speaker 4: Would thank god, because holy shit, Oh she is such
Speaker 4: a transphob Oh my god. Yes, but yeah, also utterly unqualified.
Speaker 3: Completely unqualified while she was writing it instead of talk
Speaker 3: with single trans person as like part of the consulting,
Speaker 3: because she didn't do it by herself. It's wait too
Speaker 3: long for anyone to do buyers, but by themselves. She
Speaker 3: got a bunch of unknown advisers to help her with this,
Speaker 3: one of which is a Finnish psychiatrist who has been
Speaker 3: campaign against transgender rights for the past twenty years. Yep,
Speaker 3: but she did not have any trans people on the
Speaker 3: consulting board, not a single one.
Speaker 4: Well, of course, why would you talk to a transperson
Speaker 4: about trans health care? Like, that's why would you. Trans
Speaker 4: people don't know anything. They need to be regulated and
Speaker 4: told exactly what's best for them by people who have
Speaker 4: never even talked to them before. She actually, while she
Speaker 4: was writing it, she talked to Florida healthcare officials during
Speaker 4: the Ron DeSantis instration for information on what to do.
Speaker 3: Like and these officials, by the way, they weren't just
Speaker 3: like leftovers from the prior governor. They were appointed by
Speaker 3: Ron de Santis and have literally been Jews bidding and
Speaker 3: restricting healthcare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, appointed by the guy who in the last campaign
Speaker 4: cycle had to fucking add with a son and rat
Speaker 4: in it. So like, you know the level of Nazi
Speaker 4: we're dealing with here, huh.
Speaker 3: And not only did she worked with them, but there's
Speaker 3: even more. She worked with numerous people who were tied
Speaker 3: to anti translate groups, most notable of which is the
Speaker 3: quote Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine GOD. They are
Speaker 3: probably one of the leading anti trans groups right now.
Speaker 3: They are a Southern poverty law centered, desic hate group.
Speaker 3: They're not very fun people. They all have a financial
Speaker 3: interest in opposing transgender rights. Many of the people with
Speaker 3: them have been quite paid to oppose transjunder rights in courts.
Speaker 3: There's a whole rabbit hole to get into there. The
Speaker 3: point being she's worked with hate groups, she's worked with
Speaker 3: the Santa's appointees, she talked to no trans people, and
Speaker 3: she of lied a lot. When the cast brew first
Speaker 3: came out, I was one of the people who was
Speaker 3: working around the clock to try to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: let's not just assume that this is immediately accurate, because
Speaker 3: we should wait for independent scholars to evaluate this. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of shady stuff going on here, and why
Speaker 3: didn't you know it? A lot of things were wrong
Speaker 3: for starters. Ass misrepresented a lot of what she did
Speaker 3: for the review. It was supposed to be a systematic
Speaker 3: review into all the literature and PUBI blockers is she
Speaker 3: left out a bunch of studies, especially more recent ones
Speaker 3: with that are elogies. She and her method degrade them.
Speaker 3: Basically changed it up last minute and didn't seek your
Speaker 3: review for it from her institutions review the board, which
Speaker 3: she didn't speak any ethical verification on anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, which which is which is amazing. It's like, do
Speaker 4: you know how fucked your report has to be and
Speaker 4: like your anti transferport has to be and not be
Speaker 4: able to survive a British peer.
Speaker 3: Review board, like Jesus Christ. It's like yeah, like it's
Speaker 3: it gets even worse because as time went on, a
Speaker 3: lot of journalists myself included, found a bunch of little
Speaker 3: pact rolling out seats there. She was misrepresenting this study.
Speaker 3: She was misterpreenting that study. Lots of little information. It
Speaker 3: was she at one point fighted a YouTube channel that
Speaker 3: is dedicated to opposing trans rate than be the YouTube
Speaker 3: channel in her fucking seconds. It was a tangential citation,
Speaker 3: but the point being the fact that she even discovered
Speaker 3: that shows her allegiances. She was in the cast review.
Speaker 3: She was trying to cast doubt on the leading medical
Speaker 3: association for trans people, the war Professional Association for Transgender Health.
Speaker 3: She was like, oh no, they're actually not good. They're
Speaker 3: politically biased. I'm not though, don't worreayes. Don't investigate me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And in the time since, there's been a shitt ton
Speaker 3: of medical experts coming forward opposing the CAST Review, being like, no,
Speaker 3: the methodology is garbage. Not just journalists saying it. There
Speaker 3: have quite littlely been hundreds of metabirds who have come
Speaker 3: forward to publicly oppose the CAST Review. These are people
Speaker 3: across a variety of fields, psychiatrists, pediatrician, chronologists, basically everyone
Speaker 3: you could imagine who would be relevant to the study
Speaker 3: of transcendor health and minors. They have come forward against it,
Speaker 3: including most of the leading researchers in the field, including
Speaker 3: people who have actually imporked with trans people in a
Speaker 3: professional capacity.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow, and this review. It's the reason the United Kingdom
Speaker 3: went on last year to ban puberty blockers in all
Speaker 3: four countries within it. They started in England, then they
Speaker 3: spread it out to Scotland, Wales with their beauty blocker ban,
Speaker 3: and was recently right before New Year's they banned it
Speaker 3: in Northern Ireland. And because of this, so many clinics
Speaker 3: are now just not treating trans people, including transgender adults.
Speaker 3: They're ing out transgender adults not getting the care they
Speaker 3: need because of something to even discuss trans adults in
Speaker 3: a meaningful capacity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's part of the thing with the Cash Review, right,
Speaker 4: is that, like you know, it literally like it could
Speaker 4: have just been like seven hundred pages of fuck you
Speaker 4: over and over again and it would have had the
Speaker 4: same effects, because the point of the Cast Review wasn't
Speaker 4: actually to like establish anything medically. It was to just
Speaker 4: have a document that you could point at and then
Speaker 4: justify any policy whatsoever. Like it's it's kind of like
Speaker 4: it's kind of like the way the Gambits and the
Speaker 4: Bell Curve works were, like none of the actual policy
Speaker 4: recommendations follow from any of the arguments that they're making,
Speaker 4: but it exists so that you can make those policy
Speaker 4: arguments and then point to like, oh, it's because of
Speaker 4: IQ and this is this is the same like bullshit IQ,
Speaker 4: like fake IQ science, right, Like there's.
Speaker 3: Literally IQ science used to justify the puberty blocker band.
Speaker 4: Of course there is.
Speaker 3: They are claiming that puberty blockers reduce IQ using a
Speaker 3: study from like two thousand and one on one of
Speaker 3: the and a separate study on shown my God, I
Speaker 3: set the study on fucking sheep. How are you measuring
Speaker 3: the IQ of sheep? Like what?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, we wheeled in the sheep to do
Speaker 4: the fucking Army Standard amplitude test.
Speaker 3: Like, ah, it's scored real bad.
Speaker 4: Give it puberty blockers and it scored even worse.
Speaker 3: It gets garbage science.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but one of the important things like inclusions here
Speaker 4: is that, like so one of the one of the
Speaker 4: sort of things that's happening now is that fucking feral
Speaker 4: attack dog. I don't know, you fucking assuming you motherfucker.
Speaker 4: We won the revolution each shit west Streeting who's now
Speaker 4: running British Healthcare, issued a fucking thing to ban puberty
Speaker 4: blockers for trans youth, you know, and he cites the
Speaker 4: Cash Report. Do you know what's not in the Cash Report?
Speaker 4: A recommendation to ban puberty blockers? Do you know these
Speaker 4: fucking doing me anyways? Because that's the actual sort of
Speaker 4: purpose of the report is to serve as sort of
Speaker 4: like just a kind of like talasman you can hold
Speaker 4: up and say, ha, see this is justified. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: can you can you talk about the whistleblowers and the
Speaker 4: Cash Report too, because this is the thing I has
Speaker 4: seen very very little coverage. That is extremely important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the whistle blowers, they literally reached out to
Speaker 3: the Cast while she was bringing their she had to
Speaker 3: be like, hey, restricting puberty blockers isn't good. And like
Speaker 3: you said, Tass did not recommend to ban puberty blockers.
Speaker 3: She called for more research into it and like some restrictions,
Speaker 3: but not an outgrade band that was not anywhere within it.
Speaker 3: Even with her extremism, she's like, maybe we shouldn't restrict
Speaker 3: everything completely, you know, maybe we should just transition some
Speaker 3: of the kids. But she did not advocate for a
Speaker 3: full on ban, and she has even gone public into
Speaker 3: the media to clarify that she has does not believe
Speaker 3: in a full on ban. And yet she ignored the whistleblowers.
Speaker 3: She ignored them when they came to her, being like, hey,
Speaker 3: there's evidence that restricting pubery blockers is causing these depths
Speaker 3: to wreck and she didn't do anything. We don't know
Speaker 3: the specifics of that conversation. That's not public information. But
Speaker 3: we read the cast review here not coming away with
Speaker 3: it thinking, oh boy, she's really concerned about his towards
Speaker 3: killing themselves. Yeah, you're coming away with it thinking she
Speaker 3: doesn't believe as shit and she has her own agenda.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so okay, we're gonna take another ad break
Speaker 4: and then we're going to get to the promise second
Speaker 4: cover up, and we're back for cover up number two.
Speaker 4: So okay, we have now introduced briefly the fucking spawn
Speaker 4: of Satan himself, West Reading. Can you talk a little
Speaker 4: bit more about him and the cover up that he
Speaker 4: commissioned of this.
Speaker 3: So yeah, when I broke this story, it was getting
Speaker 3: no coverage. No other news outlet wanted to touch it.
Speaker 3: There were actually some journalists I talked to I'm not
Speaker 3: going to name any names, but journalists I talk to
Speaker 3: you who are trying to get their editors to publish
Speaker 3: a story on these claims, and they were like, m
Speaker 3: I don't think so, I think we're going to do that,
Speaker 3: speculated and things like that, which people were actively shutting
Speaker 3: it down, especially in the British media. Yeah, and for
Speaker 3: about a month, the nhster was Nortonis and not getting
Speaker 3: public comment, entered west streeting. You said, he is the
Speaker 3: head of British healthcare officially, he is like fucking the
Speaker 3: head of the Secretary of State for Help and Social Care.
Speaker 3: Some shit like that. But he's a sellout. He's a
Speaker 3: labor guy, you know, the party that's supposed to be
Speaker 3: at least kind of left wing in some and he
Speaker 3: threw trans people under the bus the first chance he got.
Speaker 3: Right after Turf started pressing him for it. Wes Streeting,
Speaker 3: in all his awful, awful glory, looked at Mugan's thread
Speaker 3: and thought, what if I denied this? So he commissioned
Speaker 3: Professor Lewis Albi for Appleby. He is a leading suicide
Speaker 3: researcher he at the University of Manchester. Except even though
Speaker 3: he's been in the field of suicide research for decades,
Speaker 3: in the past year or so he's been cozying up
Speaker 3: to a lot of antutrians people. Yeah, there's best shipped
Speaker 3: ton of tweets of him basically talking to turfs repeating
Speaker 3: the oh you can't have men and women's sports nonsense,
Speaker 3: you can What does him going down the pipeline?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just he's a turf. Yeah, like that's the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not the turf. He's a turf. Who I do?
Speaker 3: It's not professionally really work with Transius commits suicide. He
Speaker 3: does not discuss LGBTQ issues in his research as his
Speaker 3: primary focus. He does it for the general population. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I haven't reared every single study of his, so it's
Speaker 3: probably as like one or two that talk about HBQ
Speaker 3: suicide rates. But by no means is he like the
Speaker 3: guy you go to to learn about why suicide attempts
Speaker 3: and suicide rates are a thing in the LGBTQ population.
Speaker 3: West Reading was like, hey, was do you want to
Speaker 3: write a quote unquote debunking of Margam's dread? So enter,
Speaker 3: I have it up right now. They quote review of
Speaker 3: suicide from Gender dysphoriat the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation
Speaker 3: Trust Independent report. This guy, you basically claim that, Nope,
Speaker 3: there's no data for this. Actually, Mogham's wrong, That data
Speaker 3: pans it out. The data doesn't lie.
Speaker 4: It's also funny because this argument is that trans people
Speaker 4: were already killing themselves. Yeah, it was just like on them,
Speaker 4: which is really fucking plaque when you think about it.
Speaker 3: But uh, now there's cripes a million breaks people can
Speaker 3: have with this. For start, the data set is obviously
Speaker 3: too small to analyze fucking statistically, makes no sense to
Speaker 3: try to do a fucking indathatistical analysis on what maug
Speaker 3: was cleaning with sixteen kids. That's not but you're not
Speaker 3: going to get shit out of that. It's not really
Speaker 3: a big issue with it. The big issue that Malgum
Speaker 3: himself actually pointed out in the same day that this
Speaker 3: came out, Logan pointed out that this analysis was just
Speaker 3: long from the start for starters. This guy analyzed quote
Speaker 3: current and former patients of under Identity Service. Malcolm's claims
Speaker 3: weren't about that. Waldom's claims were about those who are
Speaker 3: on the waiting list, which.
Speaker 4: Is which which is just nuts. Like I s up
Speaker 4: here for a second.
Speaker 5: It's like the difference between again on the waiting list
Speaker 5: and have finished care Like what, yeah, what are we
Speaker 5: doing here?
Speaker 2: Like oh god, how did this get past any media outlet?
Speaker 4: I mean tree'sphobia but like really yeah, now there's other
Speaker 4: problems with it, but what it's kind of suspicious.
Speaker 3: So apple Bye, Applebee however he pronounced his last name.
Speaker 4: He's going to call him Applebee's because fuck him Applebee's.
Speaker 3: Fuck it. He used data directly provided by NHS Inngland. Now,
Speaker 3: student viewers will notice something Magham never claimed to access
Speaker 3: data directly given to them from NHS Inngland. He was
Speaker 3: given data from whistleblowers. Logham actually in this direct because
Speaker 3: he wrote a whole debunking this debunking, and Margan was like,
Speaker 3: he revealed that he actually a month before this was published,
Speaker 3: he reached out to NHS angling to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: can I have your data on this subject. I've gotten
Speaker 3: a lot of information I want to try to corroborate it.
Speaker 3: They denied him the data. They just denied him it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember incorrectly. Part of it was they claimed
Speaker 4: the data didn't exist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they claimed it didn't exist, that they just
Speaker 3: didn't have it at all, and something they pulled that
Speaker 3: up in air for little Applebee's. Well, there's some other
Speaker 3: intrare inconsistencies. As we know, Logham had receipts he provided
Speaker 3: information on minutes directly from NHS meetings discussing these suicides.
Speaker 3: That the minutes don't match up to the data Applebee's,
Speaker 3: as Applebee's is under estimating every then. And yeah, very
Speaker 3: recently this has not gotten any media coverage at all.
Speaker 3: Those who have been following UK politics for a while,
Speaker 3: especially trans politics, remember the unfortunate case of Alice Lynn.
Speaker 3: She was a young traentleman who committed suicide as of
Speaker 3: NHS wait lists years ago. Her mother, er Littmann, has
Speaker 3: been a staunch ally trans people since she's been one
Speaker 3: of the fuses people in the UK to be like, hey, no,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm putting my all behind trans people. She's wonderful.
Speaker 3: She came out publicly for v Link that Alice Litman
Speaker 3: was not included in Applebe's data set even though she
Speaker 3: should have been. She was within yeah, the years. So
Speaker 3: what this says is that Applebee's had bad data that
Speaker 3: didn't include every kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, here's the thing we don't know about that, right.
Speaker 4: It's it's possible he had bad data. It's possible he's
Speaker 4: also just been falsifying his data because like again, he
Speaker 4: won't show it to us. So we have no fucking
Speaker 4: idea what like was what he was actually provided with
Speaker 4: and what he was like, you know, or what things
Speaker 4: he did to the data sets that he was given
Speaker 4: beforehand to produce what he's analyzing in his report.
Speaker 3: True, and there was of course a bunch of smaller
Speaker 3: issues you could point out with Applebee's review, but the
Speaker 3: crux of it it's bogus data is a matchup. As
Speaker 3: you said, he could be falsifying it. He could have
Speaker 3: just been given bad data. We don't know. He's not
Speaker 3: sharing anything. The NHS is sharing anything. Yeah, but all
Speaker 3: we know is that there's some major inconsistencies and they
Speaker 3: they're not doing shit with it. And this is where
Speaker 3: we enter everyone's favorite mainstream media, the lovely British media
Speaker 3: specifically outlooks like the BBC right literally within the first
Speaker 3: twenty four hours of this review coming out, they reported
Speaker 3: on it. At this point, my coverage has been there
Speaker 3: for a month. It Logam's claims have been out there
Speaker 3: for a month. They weren't touched them. And yet the
Speaker 3: moment someone came out with the nagest trying to be like,
Speaker 3: actually it's false, they were rushing to report on it
Speaker 3: something they claimed was not newsworthy previously. Yeah, and mind you,
Speaker 3: Logan's rebuttal to this review was posted publicly at this time,
Speaker 3: at the time that this media coverage was going up.
Speaker 3: At the BBC article breaking the story up, the only
Speaker 3: discussion they give to basically any issues with this. It's
Speaker 3: just a couple of brief sentences talking about Mogam's issues
Speaker 3: with it. At the beginning, they just claimed that Morgan
Speaker 3: had profound difficulties. And at the very end of the article,
Speaker 3: buried at the bottom, they gave Mogham like three sentences,
Speaker 3: and they left out a lot of information, like the
Speaker 3: minutes Mogham showed that he got from whistleblowers, the exact
Speaker 3: claims he got from whistle blowers. They just didn't report
Speaker 3: on it. They they gave such intense coverage to Applebee's
Speaker 3: Applebee's claims in the review, and then they just flat
Speaker 3: out ignored everything Mogham was saying, everything everyone else was doing.
Speaker 3: Now again I add, sure, we don't know for sure
Speaker 3: whether who's telling the trubery, but the NHS has an
Speaker 3: incentive to lie here Mogham doesn't. Mogham is getting his
Speaker 3: career torch basically because they're going forward about all this.
Speaker 4: And you can tell which side the BBC is on.
Speaker 4: You know, they give the game away at the end
Speaker 4: where they give the last word of this article to
Speaker 4: Ken Barker, who is the chief executive the LGB Alliance,
Speaker 4: which is an anti transait group, and you know, and
Speaker 4: they give her the last sentence saying that trans people
Speaker 4: are spreading misinformation to serve a dangerous and homophobic ideology.
Speaker 4: And I like quite specifically, like Kate Barker, if you
Speaker 4: ever fucking listen to this, fuck you eat shit like
Speaker 4: this is direct evidence that of the BBC's fucking political
Speaker 4: line here, because again they're they're they're giving the closing
Speaker 4: statement to a group that is literally just an anti
Speaker 4: transa group because the BBC is the institutional is institutional
Speaker 4: fucking media arm of the British government, and the British
Speaker 4: government is institutionally transphobic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not going to say that what the
Speaker 3: information right now, we have a definitives that's not the problem.
Speaker 3: The problem is this of Ben being investigated. Any non
Speaker 3: biased fucking NHS, any non biased British Yeah, would look
Speaker 3: at Moggan's claims and think, oh wow, we should look
Speaker 3: into this. We should independently verify. Yeah, we should try
Speaker 3: to career operate everything saying or at least see if
Speaker 3: he's accurate.
Speaker 4: Which which again and I want to put this out
Speaker 4: this is the job of a journalist. The job of
Speaker 4: a journalist is not to fucking literally reprint a press
Speaker 4: report from fucking like commissioned by the fucking government. Your
Speaker 4: job is to go find the fucking whistleblowers and talk
Speaker 4: to people. Did the British Did the fucking BBC do this? No,
Speaker 4: of course they didn't, because they're fucking pr hacks. Yep,
Speaker 4: they're pr hacks for a transgendocide. And like quite frankly,
Speaker 4: and I will say this on the fucking record, because
Speaker 4: I'm not a journalist, fuck these people, like this is
Speaker 4: this is This is what the BBC wants, like like
Speaker 4: fucking dead trans kids and a cover up is what
Speaker 4: they institutionally what this fucking organization wants because they fucking
Speaker 4: hate trans people and they are completely okay with all
Speaker 4: of this shit happening as long as long as they
Speaker 4: fucking get to do another story about how fucking JK
Speaker 4: Rowling is a brave truth teller or whatever like this,
Speaker 4: this is what these people want.
Speaker 3: I agree, and I also agree with your statement. Uh,
Speaker 3: the British media cannot call fuck themselves and I hope
Speaker 3: they rob them. Hell yeah, I don't know how you
Speaker 3: can as a journalist, someone trained to prioritize the truth
Speaker 3: and nothing but the truth, look at all this and
Speaker 3: think this is suspicious going on there there's nothing that
Speaker 3: Lawrence further investigation, even if Malcolm's claims are false, right,
Speaker 3: even if everything Malcolm says he made it up. He's
Speaker 3: an influential guy. He has been covered by the media
Speaker 3: for his lawsuits with the Good Law Project countless time before.
Speaker 3: He's made national headlines there. And they don't investigate this
Speaker 3: at all, Like, yeah, they're rushing to report on everything.
Speaker 3: Fucking JK. Rowling says everything some random fucking turf is saying,
Speaker 3: May Angelou, whoever turf you want to run?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm realizing there are people listening to this.
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe you'reself listening to the episode. You
Speaker 4: don't know about the JK rolling turf stuff, but like
Speaker 4: to get an understanding of like how vehement of like
Speaker 4: an anti trans hate figure she is, Like anti trans
Speaker 4: groups literally wear her face as a mask. Like I'm
Speaker 4: not joking. She she she fucking retweeted them an anti
Speaker 4: trans group literally wearing like printed out copies of her
Speaker 4: face as a mask. Like that is that? That is
Speaker 4: the status that she has in in in the anti
Speaker 4: trans world, right, Like and then the BBC fucking loves
Speaker 4: her so Africa she does, and she's not even an
Speaker 4: expert in anything.
Speaker 3: She's a fucking author of children's books.
Speaker 4: Like yeah, you know, it's like, well, we'll we'll talk
Speaker 4: to the authors of Sheldon's books when we talk to
Speaker 4: trans people, know, And I mean that's the ever thing
Speaker 4: about this is like the BBC never talked to a transperson.
Speaker 4: They did talk to an anti transcit group though, so
Speaker 4: you know you you you know, you know what fucking
Speaker 4: side of this is is considered valid by the British
Speaker 4: political and media establishment. Oh and also at the bottom
Speaker 4: and like, I know that they're doing this because this
Speaker 4: is just like standard policy for like if you're doing
Speaker 4: a thing story about suicide, but the very if the
Speaker 4: article is a is a link to a bunch of
Speaker 4: suicide and crisis hotlines. So uh, one last fuck you
Speaker 4: to every trans person reading this. Yeah, the one two
Speaker 4: punch of we quoted an anti trans hate figure, here's
Speaker 4: a suicide hotline is like real.
Speaker 3: Who, yeah, it's it's a it's a fucking insult.
Speaker 4: It Yeah.
Speaker 3: It just gets me how they didn't report on these
Speaker 3: claims at all when they were initially made, Like it
Speaker 3: didn't even have to be a big story like most
Speaker 3: fucking outlets I've written for would have just reported as like,
Speaker 3: oh this, this guy said this, were waiting more information,
Speaker 3: okay whatever. It wouldn't be a good reporting, but it'd
Speaker 3: be the bare minimum. They didn't even do that. They
Speaker 3: rushed to just to repeat whatever the fuck. A commission
Speaker 3: review from the government said that's more reputable, I guess
Speaker 3: than you know, leading advocates who actually cited their sources
Speaker 3: instead of just throwing shit at the wall.
Speaker 4: Yep, and I think that's that. That's as good of
Speaker 4: a place as endy to stop. Less you have anything
Speaker 4: else you want to make sure people know about about this. Yeah,
Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming on the show. And
Speaker 4: where can people find you in your work? Yeah, thank
Speaker 4: you for having me.
Speaker 3: I can primarily be found on blue Sky. That is
Speaker 3: the main place I post now. Yeah, I'm at me
Speaker 3: real Gene, bluesky dot social. Beyond that, you'll probably see
Speaker 3: one of my articles published around because I am constantly
Speaker 3: working my ass off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is but it could happen here. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, there's still time for this
Speaker 4: not to happen here. So yeah, go go go organize
Speaker 4: and go make West streeting and the BBC have a
Speaker 4: bad day.
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