1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Call Zon Media. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Hey, this is me in the future. This is recorded 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 2: in the now halcyon days of January twenty twenty five. 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: Lots of things have changed. Basically everything everywhere has gotten worse. 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: This is the story about the oppression of Trends people 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: in the United Kingdom that is very bleak. In many ways, 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: United Kingdom has gotten worse since then. The UK Supreme 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: Court has ruled that the definition of sex and the 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: Equality Act of twenty ten is quote binary and is 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: decided by quote biological sex. So whatever the sex that 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 2: some fucking doctor assigns you at birth is your sex 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: specifically under the Equalities Act. A bunch of people in 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: the UK have decided that this means that the courts 14 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: have ruled that like sex in general means quote unquote 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: biological sex. That's actually not what they ruled, but they're 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: doing anyways. So there's been a whole bunch of things where, 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: for example, the Labor Party has started purging Trends women 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: from any like one of their bodies that's supposed to 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: be a woman's body. So through the oppression of trans 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: people continues to escalate. Yeah, our only path out is 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 2: just open and active resistance. Against them in a more 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 2: positive notes, Mira, our guest for this episode, has since 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: since this episode, has struck out on her own and 24 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: is now the mind and genius behind the outlet Free Radical. 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: She will link to here and you should go support 26 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 2: her work because it's great. Now to our episode, it's 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: it could happen here a podcast that is. 28 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 3: Largely about the US. 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 4: That might that might exaggerate the ex sat to which 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 4: is about the US, but it is. Most episodes are 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 4: about the US, but sometimes it's about other places. And 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 4: one of the frequent places that it's about is the 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 4: United Kingdom, And specifically we're gonna talk about the United 34 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 4: Kingdom because the UK is both an image of the 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 4: present and the future of the oppression of trans people. 36 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 4: And there have been in a bunch of just absolutely 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 4: horrible things happening there that have gotten very little press attention. 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 4: And one of the one of those things is what 39 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 4: appears to be a like I guess I would call 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 4: it like a two stage cover up of a bunch 41 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 4: of suicides of trans kids on waiting list for healthcare. 42 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: And with me to talk about this fucking terrible shit 43 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 4: is Mira Lasine, who's a freelance trans journalist Miro. Welcome 44 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 4: to the show. 45 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: Great to be here, Thank you for having me. 46 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. So, I mean, God, this is one of those 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 4: I always am excited to talk to people, but I 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: swear to God, like one of the every four times 49 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: this happens, it's like a I have to pull it, 50 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 4: do you? I want to say, I'm excited to talk 51 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 4: to you about this because, like Jesus christis is the 52 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 4: most depressing shit I've seen in ages. 53 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a fun story. It's an important one, 54 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: probably one of the most important I've ever borded on, 55 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: but not remotely fun. 56 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 5: Yeah. 57 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: So let's go back to the how I'll see in 58 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 4: days of mid twenty twenty four. I don't know, thanks 59 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 4: for she really bad then too, but they're worse now, 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 4: but they were. 61 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: Also bad then. 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. So can you talk a bit about how this 63 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 4: story started and about what was going on with the 64 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 4: National Health Service, the NHS, which is the British basically 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 4: the British healthcare system is run out of National Health Service. 66 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 4: Can you talk about the whistleblowers there and what was 67 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 4: going on with them? 68 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 3: So, yeah, I first became aware of whats going on independently, 69 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: I was working with Alejandra Carabio, the clinical instructor of 70 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: cyber Law Clanic at Harvard. She's a friend of mine 71 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: and we worked together on subjects. She and Ira and 72 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: almost some other people were talking about the horrific wait 73 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: lists going on with the NHS. It's terrible there, I 74 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: mean not even just for trance stuff, throwing millions of 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: reports of people having to wait months to get essential healthcare. 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: Some people have died just from like their conditions being 77 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: on the wait list. We had both stumbled upon some 78 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: old news reports from like years prior about trans kids 79 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: who had unfortunately committed suicide as a result of not 80 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: getting the essential health plague they need on the waitlist. 81 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: These stories are not talked about their media at all. 82 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: They got like one art mentioned ning what happened to them, 83 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: and then that was it. So we started to investigate it. 84 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: She was compiling a spreadsheet of everything she could find, 85 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: every news report of kids who experienced this. I was 86 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: pitching help and contribute to that spreadsheets. And then right 87 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: around the same time, the director then of the Good 88 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: Law Project, a civil rights organization that does a lot 89 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: of the stuff in the United Kingdom his name is 90 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: Jolyn Mongham apologized if I mispronounced that. He came out 91 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 3: with a Twitter thread revealing and this was very suddenly. 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: He hadn't contacted anyone about this. He just kind of 93 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 3: posted it right when he got enough of a story 94 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: and everything. He revealed that he was talking to a 95 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: couple of whistleblowers within the NHS about what was going down. 96 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: And not only did he talk to some whistleblowers, but 97 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 3: he also gained some independent evidence from himself his own investigation, 98 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 3: from meeting minutes from officials in the NHS, and so 99 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: what he found kind of began with the first whistle blower. 100 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:52,119 Speaker 3: This one was someone who did not reveal much about 101 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: who they were publicly and presumably to protect your job. 102 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: But Logan said that with his whistleblowers, he independently confirmed 103 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 3: that they did worked for the NHS. He saw their 104 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 3: ideas Mohm's up typic guy to lie. He's a trusted 105 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 3: figure in the UK political scene. First one said that 106 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: there was only one reported suicide prior to twenty twenty. 107 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 3: Significance of twenty twenty in relation to Shrethelthcare at Nited 108 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: Kingdom was that the infamous case Bell versus Tatistock. I'm 109 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 3: not going to go into detail of this case because 110 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: it convoluted messy and hellish, but the gist of it 111 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 3: is that it led to tightened restrictions on gender perman 112 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: careacter miners, particularly in the new realm of puberty blockers. 113 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: This ruling ended up kind of restricting how might act 114 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 3: ass puberty walkers. Some it was a leader overturned, but 115 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: it already led to lasting damage. Even after it was overturned. 116 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 3: A lot of doctors for hensigent to even prescribed purbity 117 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 3: blockers because they were worried about political consequences. So a 118 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: lot of miners weren't getting the care they need. 119 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we should also mention here too, because I 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 4: think this has been lost in a lot of the 121 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 4: reporting on this because like I mean, I guess this 122 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 4: is the story where a lot of the reporting was 123 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 4: done by trans people just because like nobody gives a shit. 124 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 4: But like, the thing about puberty blockers is that puberty 125 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 4: blockers with the healthcare of trans youth were always a 126 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 4: sort of compromise measure that was, you know, sort of 127 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 4: put in place as a compromise of like instead of 128 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: letting kids actually transition and like, you know, go on hormones, 129 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 4: which is, you know, the thing that kids like need, 130 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 4: right if your goal is to like improve the health 131 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: outcomes of trans kids, like the thing you actually want 132 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 4: for them, like maximally is for them to have the 133 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 4: ability to get gender affirming hormones. But you know, the 134 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: sort of the sort of compromised thing that was happenings like, well, 135 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 4: you could have puberty blockers, but you know, you can 136 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 4: start horp buns later, and that is not a good 137 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 4: compromise to begin with, but losing it is even worse 138 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: because the alternative to that is, like you are now 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 4: spending even more time with a bunch of fucking hormones 140 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: in your system that you don't want, more of, more 141 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 4: of the hormones that you fucking want, and you know 142 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 4: you're getting you're being forced to go through puberty, which 143 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: fucking sucks. Shit if you're going through I don't know, 144 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 4: I don't know if the wrong puberty is like the 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,239 Speaker 4: correct language or whatever, but like it fucking sucks. It's awful. 146 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 4: And but now you know, and this is just something 147 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 4: that's happening in the US too. It's also happening in 148 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: the UK is that the compromised solutions are being knocked 149 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 4: out and we're seeing the sort of knock on effects 150 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 4: of these kids losing even the sort of compromise stuff 151 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 4: they're supposed to be getting. 152 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they used deep bogus justifications for this, or 153 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: like we don't see any benefits of puberty blockers, and 154 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: it's like, the point is not that they are benefiting 155 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 3: these kids directly. No kid is like, oh boy, I 156 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 3: get to be five years behind on puberty from my peers, 157 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: I get to look like a ten year old while 158 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: all my peers have full on beam everything. Oh boy. 159 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: Like no, but the point is that these kids are 160 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: being deprived of the care they absolutely need to stay 161 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: it live, and it's being targeted just for the sole 162 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: purpose of getting cheap politicals from what are the hells 163 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 3: in office? Yeah, but more back to the whistleblowers. So 164 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 3: prior to twenty twenty, when the Belvy Tavistock ruling came 165 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: into effect, only one transmitter died from suicide. I don't 166 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: quite remember how I framed the used estimated, but it 167 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: was broader than the one they used after. I believe 168 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: it was like seven years I think, and the years 169 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 3: after which was measured up to like the very beginning 170 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four, like Chaneu were twenty twenty four, 171 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 3: so not even four years, more like three years and 172 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: twne months. They recorded sixteen debts. Yeah, sixteen transgender minors 173 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: committed to suicide, and they were all able to be 174 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: linked to restrictions on computy quarters and NHS wave lists. 175 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: This whistle blower says this data came directly from a 176 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: doctor who analyzes just stuck professionally, is like part of 177 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: his job in the NHS. The doctor also wanted to 178 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 3: be anonymous, understandably, he named himself the quote named doctor 179 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: for Safeguarding should. He tried to warn people in the 180 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 3: NHS about this. He was like, hey, there's something wrong. 181 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: This isn't right. We are fucking up. And he talked 182 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: to so many different people, including doctor Hillary Cass, who 183 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: will talk a bit about later. 184 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 4: This is a literary device called foreshadowy, ETCETERA giant clip 185 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 4: flashing big here, giant ominous music surrounding her name does 186 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: He just warned of. 187 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: People basically, and they all ignored him. They all just 188 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 3: according to him. And this is all I have to say. 189 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: You know, this has not been verified in the court 190 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: of law or anything. This is according to the whistleblowers 191 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: in Mongham, but we have no reason to believe they 192 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: lied or fabricated this information about this was not even 193 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: revealed publicly. There's no public outcry. There was no action 194 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: taken by the NHS or any of the clinics. So 195 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: that is the first whistle blower and the whistleblower's connection 196 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: to that doctor. The second one basically can and gave 197 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: independent verification of this. They were like, yeah, I've seen 198 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: the data for myself too, I can confirm this is legitimate. 199 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 3: Now it wasn't just these three staff members who were 200 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: trying to raise a larm bells. According to the second 201 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 3: whistle blower, staff and the NHS were like, hey, well 202 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: this is not cool. We need to do something, and 203 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: so they got an open letter, sent it to their 204 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 3: higher ups and reportedly the director of the Tavistock Clinic, 205 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: which was at the time the only gender affirming care 206 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 3: clinics for minors in the entire United Kingdom. Since that 207 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: is more opened up, but it's a really complicated thing. 208 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: That's a headache to deal with. But head honchos at 209 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: Papa Stock completely retapliated. They threatened them a discipline interaction, 210 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 3: they suppressed maturial. They're basically were like, you go public 211 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: about this, if you continue talking about this, you're gonna 212 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: face consequences. 213 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 4: The thing, the thing I instantly came to mind here, 214 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 4: and I think it's just specifically because of number sixteen, 215 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 4: but like the first time I read this, the first 216 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 4: thing that came to my mind was there, you know, 217 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 4: there's the sort of famous Chicago story of the police 218 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: killing of the Clint McDonald where the slogan afterwards was 219 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 4: sixteen shots and a cover up. And this is fucking 220 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 4: sixteen deaded to cover up. And the about a fucking 221 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 4: rage that I have for all for this, all of 222 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 4: this fucking shit, that these people covered this up, that 223 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 4: they knew this was happening, and we're just like and 224 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: not only knew this was happening and not only didn't 225 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 4: do anything about it, but like actively he contributed to 226 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 4: fucking making it worse by threatening anyone to try to 227 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 4: talk about it. Is just so unbelievably disgusting. Yeah, I 228 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 4: was the first one who broke the story. I basically 229 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: reported on it, like almost immediately after Malgam went public 230 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 4: about this, because I knew not many people were going 231 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 4: to report on this right away and it was going 232 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 4: to kind of be a headache. 233 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: I didn't know how you would, but I was the 234 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 3: first one to report on it. I did it for 235 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: jeuerlest Aaron read subsect Ara in the morning back in 236 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: June of last year, and I had to stop writing 237 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 3: it multiple times, like I spent the entire day thing 238 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 3: on it, because it was stomach wrenching reading some of 239 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: these stories and doing everything. The only reason I even 240 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: got through it was because I dissociated the entire time 241 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: and just kind of compartmentalized the anger of bunch Beta. 242 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: It's like Jesus Christ, this is horrifying. But Margin was 243 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: not talking out of his ass with this too. He 244 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 3: brought receipts right in the initial thread, showed leaked to 245 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 3: meeting minutes, and like you can see water marks from 246 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 3: the NHS on these meeting minutes. Like it is unless 247 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 3: someone wants to suggest that he did a giant conspiracy 248 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: and fabricated a bunch of very accurate meeting minutes that 249 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: reflect publicly available meeting minutes elsewhere, it's pretty reputable. Yeah, 250 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: these minutes show that any test officials were aware of 251 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 3: every single one of these debts, every single one of them. 252 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: People were in these meetings calling for an independent investigation 253 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: into each of these debts, into gender affirming care pro miners, 254 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: into restrictions. They wanted to investigate everything and had detailed data. 255 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 3: They had information on the type of care they received, 256 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: which was basically negligence, and instead of reporting on this publicly, 257 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 3: instead of doing an investigation, they covered this up. They 258 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 3: didn't do anything, and they just pretended like everything was fine, 259 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: like there was no debts as a result of this. 260 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: They were acting nothing wrong was going on. And these 261 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: meeting minutes are still public too. Magan is not believe in. 262 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: It's still on his Twitter account. Good Law Project is 263 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 3: not fully any more of the kind of dissolving their 264 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: stuff right now, but Magan is still keeping all information up. 265 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 3: It's all detailed, it's publicly there. People can see for 266 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: themselves these minutes, and it's horrifying seeing the physical proof. 267 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,239 Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's horrifying. 268 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, And we need to go to ads and when 269 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 4: we come back, we'll get to the second fucking cover up, 270 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 4: because there was a second one. Did it again? This 271 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 4: time with the British Broadcasting What the fuck does the 272 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 4: C stand for corporation? That one British broadcast in corporation 273 00:15:53,080 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 4: leading the charge and we are back. So let's talk 274 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 4: about the fucking second cover up because normally, normally you 275 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: only get one cover up when your fucking health care 276 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 4: policies kill a bunch of people, but no, two, they 277 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: got multiple cover ups. Before we get to the second 278 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 4: cover up, we need to talk about what the CAST 279 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: Report is, because that's also part of this that we 280 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 4: kind of bounced around a little bit but then didn't. Yeah. 281 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so the CAST Report is probably one of 282 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: the worst things to come out at the anti trans 283 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 3: crowd in the past decade. Yeah. The gist of it 284 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: is it's essentially a supplusively independent report commissioned by the 285 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 3: Knighting government to investigate the efficacy of hubery blockers and 286 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: gender heerman character minors, authored by doctor Hillard Cass, who 287 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: they claim is an expert in this subject. I'll get 288 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: to that in the second. Yeah, the gist of what 289 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 3: it was claiming is that nope, puberty blockers do anything. 290 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 3: They actually hurt the kids, they don't improve mental health, 291 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 3: they don't protect anything. Suicides stay the same, it's all bad. 292 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 3: Get rid of them and actually restrict gender referman care too, 293 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: and also maybe we should detransition these kids too. It's 294 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: a very long document. It's actually a set of documents, 295 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: but the primary one isn't incredibly long. I remember when 296 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 3: it first it came out last year. It's been in 297 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: the works for the better part of the last decade, 298 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 3: most of the twenty ten's it's been in the works. 299 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact year that it was initially commissioned, 300 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 3: but it's been something the United Kingdom government has been 301 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: waiting on for a while to take action for gender 302 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: reforming care. Now, to understand the Cast report, you gotta 303 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 3: understand a little bit about Hillary Casts. Hillary cass is 304 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 3: not an expert in gender firming care form. She has 305 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: never treated a transgender patient in her professional practice whatsoever. 306 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 4: Would thank god, because holy shit, Oh she is such 307 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 4: a transphob Oh my god. Yes, but yeah, also utterly unqualified. 308 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 3: Completely unqualified while she was writing it instead of talk 309 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: with single trans person as like part of the consulting, 310 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: because she didn't do it by herself. It's wait too 311 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 3: long for anyone to do buyers, but by themselves. She 312 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 3: got a bunch of unknown advisers to help her with this, 313 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 3: one of which is a Finnish psychiatrist who has been 314 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 3: campaign against transgender rights for the past twenty years. Yep, 315 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: but she did not have any trans people on the 316 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 3: consulting board, not a single one. 317 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 4: Well, of course, why would you talk to a transperson 318 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 4: about trans health care? Like, that's why would you. Trans 319 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: people don't know anything. They need to be regulated and 320 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 4: told exactly what's best for them by people who have 321 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 4: never even talked to them before. She actually, while she 322 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 4: was writing it, she talked to Florida healthcare officials during 323 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: the Ron DeSantis instration for information on what to do. 324 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 3: Like and these officials, by the way, they weren't just 325 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: like leftovers from the prior governor. They were appointed by 326 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: Ron de Santis and have literally been Jews bidding and 327 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: restricting healthcare. 328 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, appointed by the guy who in the last campaign 329 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 4: cycle had to fucking add with a son and rat 330 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 4: in it. So like, you know the level of Nazi 331 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 4: we're dealing with here, huh. 332 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 3: And not only did she worked with them, but there's 333 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: even more. She worked with numerous people who were tied 334 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 3: to anti translate groups, most notable of which is the 335 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 3: quote Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine GOD. They are 336 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: probably one of the leading anti trans groups right now. 337 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: They are a Southern poverty law centered, desic hate group. 338 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 3: They're not very fun people. They all have a financial 339 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: interest in opposing transgender rights. Many of the people with 340 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 3: them have been quite paid to oppose transjunder rights in courts. 341 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: There's a whole rabbit hole to get into there. The 342 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: point being she's worked with hate groups, she's worked with 343 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 3: the Santa's appointees, she talked to no trans people, and 344 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 3: she of lied a lot. When the cast brew first 345 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 3: came out, I was one of the people who was 346 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: working around the clock to try to be like, hey, 347 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: let's not just assume that this is immediately accurate, because 348 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 3: we should wait for independent scholars to evaluate this. There's 349 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 3: a lot of shady stuff going on here, and why 350 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 3: didn't you know it? A lot of things were wrong 351 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 3: for starters. Ass misrepresented a lot of what she did 352 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: for the review. It was supposed to be a systematic 353 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: review into all the literature and PUBI blockers is she 354 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: left out a bunch of studies, especially more recent ones 355 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 3: with that are elogies. She and her method degrade them. 356 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: Basically changed it up last minute and didn't seek your 357 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: review for it from her institutions review the board, which 358 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 3: she didn't speak any ethical verification on anything. 359 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, which which is which is amazing. It's like, do 360 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: you know how fucked your report has to be and 361 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 4: like your anti transferport has to be and not be 362 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: able to survive a British peer. 363 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: Review board, like Jesus Christ. It's like yeah, like it's 364 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: it gets even worse because as time went on, a 365 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: lot of journalists myself included, found a bunch of little 366 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 3: pact rolling out seats there. She was misrepresenting this study. 367 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: She was misterpreenting that study. Lots of little information. It 368 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 3: was she at one point fighted a YouTube channel that 369 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 3: is dedicated to opposing trans rate than be the YouTube 370 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: channel in her fucking seconds. It was a tangential citation, 371 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 3: but the point being the fact that she even discovered 372 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: that shows her allegiances. She was in the cast review. 373 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 3: She was trying to cast doubt on the leading medical 374 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 3: association for trans people, the war Professional Association for Transgender Health. 375 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: She was like, oh no, they're actually not good. They're 376 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: politically biased. I'm not though, don't worreayes. Don't investigate me. 377 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 378 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 3: And in the time since, there's been a shitt ton 379 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: of medical experts coming forward opposing the CAST Review, being like, no, 380 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 3: the methodology is garbage. Not just journalists saying it. There 381 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: have quite littlely been hundreds of metabirds who have come 382 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: forward to publicly oppose the CAST Review. These are people 383 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: across a variety of fields, psychiatrists, pediatrician, chronologists, basically everyone 384 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: you could imagine who would be relevant to the study 385 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 3: of transcendor health and minors. They have come forward against it, 386 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 3: including most of the leading researchers in the field, including 387 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 3: people who have actually imporked with trans people in a 388 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 3: professional capacity. 389 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 390 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 3: Wow, and this review. It's the reason the United Kingdom 391 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 3: went on last year to ban puberty blockers in all 392 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 3: four countries within it. They started in England, then they 393 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 3: spread it out to Scotland, Wales with their beauty blocker ban, 394 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 3: and was recently right before New Year's they banned it 395 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 3: in Northern Ireland. And because of this, so many clinics 396 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 3: are now just not treating trans people, including transgender adults. 397 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: They're ing out transgender adults not getting the care they 398 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 3: need because of something to even discuss trans adults in 399 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: a meaningful capacity. 400 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's part of the thing with the Cash Review, right, 401 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 4: is that, like you know, it literally like it could 402 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 4: have just been like seven hundred pages of fuck you 403 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 4: over and over again and it would have had the 404 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 4: same effects, because the point of the Cast Review wasn't 405 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 4: actually to like establish anything medically. It was to just 406 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 4: have a document that you could point at and then 407 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 4: justify any policy whatsoever. Like it's it's kind of like 408 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 4: it's kind of like the way the Gambits and the 409 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 4: Bell Curve works were, like none of the actual policy 410 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 4: recommendations follow from any of the arguments that they're making, 411 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 4: but it exists so that you can make those policy 412 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 4: arguments and then point to like, oh, it's because of 413 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 4: IQ and this is this is the same like bullshit IQ, 414 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 4: like fake IQ science, right, Like there's. 415 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 3: Literally IQ science used to justify the puberty blocker band. 416 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 4: Of course there is. 417 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 3: They are claiming that puberty blockers reduce IQ using a 418 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 3: study from like two thousand and one on one of 419 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 3: the and a separate study on shown my God, I 420 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: set the study on fucking sheep. How are you measuring 421 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: the IQ of sheep? Like what? 422 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, we wheeled in the sheep to do 423 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 4: the fucking Army Standard amplitude test. 424 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 3: Like, ah, it's scored real bad. 425 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 4: Give it puberty blockers and it scored even worse. 426 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 3: It gets garbage science. 427 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, but one of the important things like inclusions here 428 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 4: is that, like so one of the one of the 429 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 4: sort of things that's happening now is that fucking feral 430 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 4: attack dog. I don't know, you fucking assuming you motherfucker. 431 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 4: We won the revolution each shit west Streeting who's now 432 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 4: running British Healthcare, issued a fucking thing to ban puberty 433 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 4: blockers for trans youth, you know, and he cites the 434 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 4: Cash Report. Do you know what's not in the Cash Report? 435 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 4: A recommendation to ban puberty blockers? Do you know these 436 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 4: fucking doing me anyways? Because that's the actual sort of 437 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 4: purpose of the report is to serve as sort of 438 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 4: like just a kind of like talasman you can hold 439 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 4: up and say, ha, see this is justified. Yeah, and 440 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 4: can you can you talk about the whistleblowers and the 441 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 4: Cash Report too, because this is the thing I has 442 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 4: seen very very little coverage. That is extremely important. 443 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the whistle blowers, they literally reached out to 444 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: the Cast while she was bringing their she had to 445 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: be like, hey, restricting puberty blockers isn't good. And like 446 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 3: you said, Tass did not recommend to ban puberty blockers. 447 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 3: She called for more research into it and like some restrictions, 448 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 3: but not an outgrade band that was not anywhere within it. 449 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 3: Even with her extremism, she's like, maybe we shouldn't restrict 450 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: everything completely, you know, maybe we should just transition some 451 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 3: of the kids. But she did not advocate for a 452 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 3: full on ban, and she has even gone public into 453 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: the media to clarify that she has does not believe 454 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 3: in a full on ban. And yet she ignored the whistleblowers. 455 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 3: She ignored them when they came to her, being like, hey, 456 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 3: there's evidence that restricting pubery blockers is causing these depths 457 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 3: to wreck and she didn't do anything. We don't know 458 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 3: the specifics of that conversation. That's not public information. But 459 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 3: we read the cast review here not coming away with 460 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 3: it thinking, oh boy, she's really concerned about his towards 461 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 3: killing themselves. Yeah, you're coming away with it thinking she 462 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 3: doesn't believe as shit and she has her own agenda. 463 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so okay, we're gonna take another ad break 464 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 4: and then we're going to get to the promise second 465 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 4: cover up, and we're back for cover up number two. 466 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 4: So okay, we have now introduced briefly the fucking spawn 467 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 4: of Satan himself, West Reading. Can you talk a little 468 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 4: bit more about him and the cover up that he 469 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 4: commissioned of this. 470 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: So yeah, when I broke this story, it was getting 471 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 3: no coverage. No other news outlet wanted to touch it. 472 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 3: There were actually some journalists I talked to I'm not 473 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: going to name any names, but journalists I talk to 474 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: you who are trying to get their editors to publish 475 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 3: a story on these claims, and they were like, m 476 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 3: I don't think so, I think we're going to do that, 477 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 3: speculated and things like that, which people were actively shutting 478 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 3: it down, especially in the British media. Yeah, and for 479 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 3: about a month, the nhster was Nortonis and not getting 480 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 3: public comment, entered west streeting. You said, he is the 481 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 3: head of British healthcare officially, he is like fucking the 482 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 3: head of the Secretary of State for Help and Social Care. 483 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 3: Some shit like that. But he's a sellout. He's a 484 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 3: labor guy, you know, the party that's supposed to be 485 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: at least kind of left wing in some and he 486 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 3: threw trans people under the bus the first chance he got. 487 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: Right after Turf started pressing him for it. Wes Streeting, 488 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 3: in all his awful, awful glory, looked at Mugan's thread 489 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 3: and thought, what if I denied this? So he commissioned 490 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: Professor Lewis Albi for Appleby. He is a leading suicide 491 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 3: researcher he at the University of Manchester. Except even though 492 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 3: he's been in the field of suicide research for decades, 493 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: in the past year or so he's been cozying up 494 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 3: to a lot of antutrians people. Yeah, there's best shipped 495 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 3: ton of tweets of him basically talking to turfs repeating 496 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 3: the oh you can't have men and women's sports nonsense, 497 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 3: you can What does him going down the pipeline? 498 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just he's a turf. Yeah, like that's the. 499 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not the turf. He's a turf. Who I do? 500 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: It's not professionally really work with Transius commits suicide. He 501 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 3: does not discuss LGBTQ issues in his research as his 502 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: primary focus. He does it for the general population. Yeah, 503 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: I haven't reared every single study of his, so it's 504 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 3: probably as like one or two that talk about HBQ 505 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 3: suicide rates. But by no means is he like the 506 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 3: guy you go to to learn about why suicide attempts 507 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 3: and suicide rates are a thing in the LGBTQ population. 508 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: West Reading was like, hey, was do you want to 509 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: write a quote unquote debunking of Margam's dread? So enter, 510 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 3: I have it up right now. They quote review of 511 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: suicide from Gender dysphoriat the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation 512 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: Trust Independent report. This guy, you basically claim that, Nope, 513 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: there's no data for this. Actually, Mogham's wrong, That data 514 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 3: pans it out. The data doesn't lie. 515 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 4: It's also funny because this argument is that trans people 516 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 4: were already killing themselves. Yeah, it was just like on them, 517 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 4: which is really fucking plaque when you think about it. 518 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 3: But uh, now there's cripes a million breaks people can 519 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 3: have with this. For start, the data set is obviously 520 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: too small to analyze fucking statistically, makes no sense to 521 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 3: try to do a fucking indathatistical analysis on what maug 522 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: was cleaning with sixteen kids. That's not but you're not 523 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: going to get shit out of that. It's not really 524 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: a big issue with it. The big issue that Malgum 525 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 3: himself actually pointed out in the same day that this 526 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: came out, Logan pointed out that this analysis was just 527 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: long from the start for starters. This guy analyzed quote 528 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 3: current and former patients of under Identity Service. Malcolm's claims 529 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: weren't about that. Waldom's claims were about those who are 530 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: on the waiting list, which. 531 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 4: Is which which is just nuts. Like I s up 532 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 4: here for a second. 533 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 5: It's like the difference between again on the waiting list 534 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 5: and have finished care Like what, yeah, what are we 535 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 5: doing here? 536 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: Like oh god, how did this get past any media outlet? 537 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 4: I mean tree'sphobia but like really yeah, now there's other 538 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 4: problems with it, but what it's kind of suspicious. 539 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: So apple Bye, Applebee however he pronounced his last name. 540 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 4: He's going to call him Applebee's because fuck him Applebee's. 541 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 3: Fuck it. He used data directly provided by NHS Inngland. Now, 542 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 3: student viewers will notice something Magham never claimed to access 543 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: data directly given to them from NHS Inngland. He was 544 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 3: given data from whistleblowers. Logham actually in this direct because 545 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 3: he wrote a whole debunking this debunking, and Margan was like, 546 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 3: he revealed that he actually a month before this was published, 547 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 3: he reached out to NHS angling to be like, hey, 548 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: can I have your data on this subject. I've gotten 549 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 3: a lot of information I want to try to corroborate it. 550 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 3: They denied him the data. They just denied him it. 551 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember incorrectly. Part of it was they claimed 552 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 4: the data didn't exist. 553 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they claimed it didn't exist, that they just 554 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 3: didn't have it at all, and something they pulled that 555 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 3: up in air for little Applebee's. Well, there's some other 556 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 3: intrare inconsistencies. As we know, Logham had receipts he provided 557 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 3: information on minutes directly from NHS meetings discussing these suicides. 558 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 3: That the minutes don't match up to the data Applebee's, 559 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 3: as Applebee's is under estimating every then. And yeah, very 560 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 3: recently this has not gotten any media coverage at all. 561 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 3: Those who have been following UK politics for a while, 562 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: especially trans politics, remember the unfortunate case of Alice Lynn. 563 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: She was a young traentleman who committed suicide as of 564 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 3: NHS wait lists years ago. Her mother, er Littmann, has 565 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 3: been a staunch ally trans people since she's been one 566 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 3: of the fuses people in the UK to be like, hey, no, 567 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 3: I'm I'm putting my all behind trans people. She's wonderful. 568 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 3: She came out publicly for v Link that Alice Litman 569 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 3: was not included in Applebe's data set even though she 570 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 3: should have been. She was within yeah, the years. So 571 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 3: what this says is that Applebee's had bad data that 572 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 3: didn't include every kid. 573 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, here's the thing we don't know about that, right. 574 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 4: It's it's possible he had bad data. It's possible he's 575 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 4: also just been falsifying his data because like again, he 576 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 4: won't show it to us. So we have no fucking 577 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 4: idea what like was what he was actually provided with 578 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 4: and what he was like, you know, or what things 579 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 4: he did to the data sets that he was given 580 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 4: beforehand to produce what he's analyzing in his report. 581 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 3: True, and there was of course a bunch of smaller 582 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 3: issues you could point out with Applebee's review, but the 583 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: crux of it it's bogus data is a matchup. As 584 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: you said, he could be falsifying it. He could have 585 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 3: just been given bad data. We don't know. He's not 586 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 3: sharing anything. The NHS is sharing anything. Yeah, but all 587 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 3: we know is that there's some major inconsistencies and they 588 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 3: they're not doing shit with it. And this is where 589 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 3: we enter everyone's favorite mainstream media, the lovely British media 590 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: specifically outlooks like the BBC right literally within the first 591 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 3: twenty four hours of this review coming out, they reported 592 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: on it. At this point, my coverage has been there 593 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 3: for a month. It Logam's claims have been out there 594 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 3: for a month. They weren't touched them. And yet the 595 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: moment someone came out with the nagest trying to be like, 596 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 3: actually it's false, they were rushing to report on it 597 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 3: something they claimed was not newsworthy previously. Yeah, and mind you, 598 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 3: Logan's rebuttal to this review was posted publicly at this time, 599 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 3: at the time that this media coverage was going up. 600 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: At the BBC article breaking the story up, the only 601 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 3: discussion they give to basically any issues with this. It's 602 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 3: just a couple of brief sentences talking about Mogam's issues 603 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 3: with it. At the beginning, they just claimed that Morgan 604 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 3: had profound difficulties. And at the very end of the article, 605 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 3: buried at the bottom, they gave Mogham like three sentences, 606 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 3: and they left out a lot of information, like the 607 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 3: minutes Mogham showed that he got from whistleblowers, the exact 608 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 3: claims he got from whistle blowers. They just didn't report 609 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 3: on it. They they gave such intense coverage to Applebee's 610 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 3: Applebee's claims in the review, and then they just flat 611 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,959 Speaker 3: out ignored everything Mogham was saying, everything everyone else was doing. 612 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 3: Now again I add, sure, we don't know for sure 613 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 3: whether who's telling the trubery, but the NHS has an 614 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 3: incentive to lie here Mogham doesn't. Mogham is getting his 615 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 3: career torch basically because they're going forward about all this. 616 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 4: And you can tell which side the BBC is on. 617 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,839 Speaker 4: You know, they give the game away at the end 618 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 4: where they give the last word of this article to 619 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 4: Ken Barker, who is the chief executive the LGB Alliance, 620 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 4: which is an anti transait group, and you know, and 621 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 4: they give her the last sentence saying that trans people 622 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 4: are spreading misinformation to serve a dangerous and homophobic ideology. 623 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 4: And I like quite specifically, like Kate Barker, if you 624 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 4: ever fucking listen to this, fuck you eat shit like 625 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 4: this is direct evidence that of the BBC's fucking political 626 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 4: line here, because again they're they're they're giving the closing 627 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 4: statement to a group that is literally just an anti 628 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 4: transa group because the BBC is the institutional is institutional 629 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 4: fucking media arm of the British government, and the British 630 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 4: government is institutionally transphobic. 631 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not going to say that what the 632 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 3: information right now, we have a definitives that's not the problem. 633 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 3: The problem is this of Ben being investigated. Any non 634 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 3: biased fucking NHS, any non biased British Yeah, would look 635 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 3: at Moggan's claims and think, oh wow, we should look 636 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 3: into this. We should independently verify. Yeah, we should try 637 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 3: to career operate everything saying or at least see if 638 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 3: he's accurate. 639 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 4: Which which again and I want to put this out 640 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 4: this is the job of a journalist. The job of 641 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 4: a journalist is not to fucking literally reprint a press 642 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 4: report from fucking like commissioned by the fucking government. Your 643 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 4: job is to go find the fucking whistleblowers and talk 644 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 4: to people. Did the British Did the fucking BBC do this? No, 645 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 4: of course they didn't, because they're fucking pr hacks. Yep, 646 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 4: they're pr hacks for a transgendocide. And like quite frankly, 647 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 4: and I will say this on the fucking record, because 648 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 4: I'm not a journalist, fuck these people, like this is 649 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 4: this is This is what the BBC wants, like like 650 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 4: fucking dead trans kids and a cover up is what 651 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 4: they institutionally what this fucking organization wants because they fucking 652 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 4: hate trans people and they are completely okay with all 653 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 4: of this shit happening as long as long as they 654 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 4: fucking get to do another story about how fucking JK 655 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 4: Rowling is a brave truth teller or whatever like this, 656 00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 4: this is what these people want. 657 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 3: I agree, and I also agree with your statement. Uh, 658 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 3: the British media cannot call fuck themselves and I hope 659 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 3: they rob them. Hell yeah, I don't know how you 660 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 3: can as a journalist, someone trained to prioritize the truth 661 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 3: and nothing but the truth, look at all this and 662 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 3: think this is suspicious going on there there's nothing that 663 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 3: Lawrence further investigation, even if Malcolm's claims are false, right, 664 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,879 Speaker 3: even if everything Malcolm says he made it up. He's 665 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 3: an influential guy. He has been covered by the media 666 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 3: for his lawsuits with the Good Law Project countless time before. 667 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 3: He's made national headlines there. And they don't investigate this 668 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 3: at all, Like, yeah, they're rushing to report on everything. 669 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 3: Fucking JK. Rowling says everything some random fucking turf is saying, 670 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 3: May Angelou, whoever turf you want to run? 671 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm realizing there are people listening to this. 672 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe you'reself listening to the episode. You 673 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 4: don't know about the JK rolling turf stuff, but like 674 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 4: to get an understanding of like how vehement of like 675 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 4: an anti trans hate figure she is, Like anti trans 676 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,839 Speaker 4: groups literally wear her face as a mask. Like I'm 677 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 4: not joking. She she she fucking retweeted them an anti 678 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 4: trans group literally wearing like printed out copies of her 679 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 4: face as a mask. Like that is that? That is 680 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 4: the status that she has in in in the anti 681 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 4: trans world, right, Like and then the BBC fucking loves 682 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 4: her so Africa she does, and she's not even an 683 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 4: expert in anything. 684 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 3: She's a fucking author of children's books. 685 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 4: Like yeah, you know, it's like, well, we'll we'll talk 686 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 4: to the authors of Sheldon's books when we talk to 687 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 4: trans people, know, And I mean that's the ever thing 688 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 4: about this is like the BBC never talked to a transperson. 689 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 4: They did talk to an anti transcit group though, so 690 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 4: you know you you you know, you know what fucking 691 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 4: side of this is is considered valid by the British 692 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 4: political and media establishment. Oh and also at the bottom 693 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 4: and like, I know that they're doing this because this 694 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 4: is just like standard policy for like if you're doing 695 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 4: a thing story about suicide, but the very if the 696 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 4: article is a is a link to a bunch of 697 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 4: suicide and crisis hotlines. So uh, one last fuck you 698 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,919 Speaker 4: to every trans person reading this. Yeah, the one two 699 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 4: punch of we quoted an anti trans hate figure, here's 700 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 4: a suicide hotline is like real. 701 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 3: Who, yeah, it's it's a it's a fucking insult. 702 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 4: It Yeah. 703 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 3: It just gets me how they didn't report on these 704 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 3: claims at all when they were initially made, Like it 705 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 3: didn't even have to be a big story like most 706 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 3: fucking outlets I've written for would have just reported as like, 707 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 3: oh this, this guy said this, were waiting more information, 708 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 3: okay whatever. It wouldn't be a good reporting, but it'd 709 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 3: be the bare minimum. They didn't even do that. They 710 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 3: rushed to just to repeat whatever the fuck. A commission 711 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 3: review from the government said that's more reputable, I guess 712 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 3: than you know, leading advocates who actually cited their sources 713 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 3: instead of just throwing shit at the wall. 714 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 4: Yep, and I think that's that. That's as good of 715 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 4: a place as endy to stop. Less you have anything 716 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 4: else you want to make sure people know about about this. Yeah, 717 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming on the show. And 718 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 4: where can people find you in your work? Yeah, thank 719 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 4: you for having me. 720 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 3: I can primarily be found on blue Sky. That is 721 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 3: the main place I post now. Yeah, I'm at me 722 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 3: real Gene, bluesky dot social. Beyond that, you'll probably see 723 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,320 Speaker 3: one of my articles published around because I am constantly 724 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 3: working my ass off. 725 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is but it could happen here. Yeah, 726 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, there's still time for this 727 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 4: not to happen here. So yeah, go go go organize 728 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 4: and go make West streeting and the BBC have a 729 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 4: bad day. 730 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it could happen Here is a production of 731 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 732 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us 733 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 734 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 4: You listen to podcasts. 735 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it could Happen here 736 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,280 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening.