1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: Still no motive, no murder weapon, and no suspect. As 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: tensions mount and the small town of Moscow, Idaho. This 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: as we learn according to the four student victims families, 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: one of the girls was the target. That is a 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: huge break in this murder investigation. We also learn the 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: families of the slain victims are actually hiring private investigators. 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: This as an eerie handprint emerges on the sliding glass 8 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: door of the so called murder house. We also understand 9 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: the family is questioning where certain people ruled out as 10 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: suspects way too soon. I Nancy, Great, this is crime Stories. 11 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 12 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: and serious XM one eleven. In my mind evaluating this case, 13 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: the possibility that, as we pointed out on day one, 14 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: one of the girls specifically was targeted. If that's true, 15 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: that is a watershed moment in this case. First of all, 16 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Your daughter and Maddie had 17 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: different means or manner of attack, and that suggests one 18 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: of them was targeted. Can you share with us? Do 19 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: you know? When you can't share either way which one 20 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: was targeted? I can't. I ask for permission to do 21 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: just that and they said, no, I'm probably over disclosed 22 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: information that they wish I wouldn't have said. But this 23 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: story is going cold. There's less people coming to Moscow. 24 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go sleep my bed knowing that I 25 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: could get up and I could go to town and 26 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: I could I could do something, And now I'm not 27 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: going to go away. You're hearing our friend Pete Hegseas 28 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: speaking on Fox News too, Keiley Gonsalves's father. Can you 29 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: imagine that feeling? You're trying to find your daughter's killer, 30 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: grappling with her murder, and suddenly everybody that seems interested 31 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: at all in solving the case, one by one began 32 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: to leave town with me and All Star panel to 33 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But before 34 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: I go straight out to Stephanie Pagonas, crime reporter, Fox 35 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: News Digital, I want to hear one more thing from 36 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: Kelly Gonsalvas's dad. Take a listen to him speaking on 37 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: Fox knees. I'll cut to the chase. Yeah, there means 38 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: of dad don't match you. That's they don't end Kaylee's 39 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: cause of death if that's not based on the autopsy report, 40 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: and I'll match would indicate that one of them. He 41 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: doesn't have to. Let's stop playing games, guys. I need 42 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: somebody step up and be an outfit, be somebody to 43 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: be a leader. Don't make me do it. I don't 44 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: want to do it. He doesn't have to go up 45 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: the steps they're Matt. There are points of damage don't match. 46 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it wasn't leaked to me. I 47 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: earned that. I paid for that funeral. I paid for that. 48 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: It's my right. It ain't taking that from me. If 49 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to say nothing, that's your bed. But 50 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: don't say I'm leaking anything. I paid that bill, sent 51 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: my daughter to college to get an education. She came 52 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: back in the box, and I can speak on that, 53 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, Stephanie Pagans, hold on just my moment. I 54 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: want to get to a special guest joining us. Ted Williams, 55 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: former Washington DC Police detective, defense lawyer Fox needs contributor. 56 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Start on Power of Attorney. Ted. That just gave me 57 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: chills all the way down, because I know you like 58 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: how I was spoken. So many homicide victim's families, this 59 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: dad and mommy, hear the mom going calm down, calm down. 60 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: He can't calm down. He's not getting any answers. He 61 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: is beside himself, Nancy. He's frustrated, and rightfully so. His 62 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: child that he sent to college came back to him 63 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: in a box. And as your audience should understand, this 64 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: is a very very emotional scenario for that man. And 65 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: when you look at the fact that they talked about 66 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: this targeting, and then you get worried from investigators, well 67 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: we don't know who to target was, Well, we don't 68 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: know if the house was targeted. This is a bunch 69 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: of b s. Either you put out a legitimate story 70 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: or you don't say a thing. And under the circumstances here, 71 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: this father has a right to feel the way he does. 72 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: And if you think about it for a second, if 73 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: the killer or killers came through the sliding backs glass 74 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: door on the back of the home, he would have 75 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: encountered both Ethan and Zany in on the second floor 76 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: that home. If they were to target, well, he would 77 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: have killed him, and it's more likely than not that 78 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: he would have been left. But the killer or killers 79 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: went up to that third floor where Maddie and Kayley 80 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: was sleeping together, according to their father, and they were 81 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: killed on that second on that third floor. The killer, 82 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: I believe had to have known something about that home. 83 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I believe that the killer has been a killers should 84 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: we say, have been in that home before. When I 85 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: heard Ted, the pain and the anger and mister Gonzala's 86 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: his voice, and I can just see the wife because 87 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: I've seen it so many times, the wife, you know, 88 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: holding him by the arm, going calm down, Calm down, 89 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: calm down, because she knows that when you get crazy 90 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: and you're angry, the cops don't want to deal with you. 91 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: They shut you down. But he can't help it. He's 92 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: at his wits end. I want to analyze what Ted 93 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: just told us. And remember former Washington DC police detective, 94 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: not only defense attorney, but detective. He's been on just 95 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: as many homicide scenes as I have been, if not more. 96 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: You know, Stephanie pugun is joining me crime and porter 97 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: fights these digital This is a big deal. This is 98 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: a very big deal. We've been screaming from day one 99 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: that somebody, and most likely one of the girls, was targeted, 100 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: and now we have reason to believe it was gone 101 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Salvas's daughter. Now you just heard Ted lay out who 102 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: was on what floor? Explain what he is saying, and 103 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: why it is so critical that the killer goes to 104 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: the second floor, which kind of looks like the ground floor. 105 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: From one vantage point, there's two people there, they're killed, 106 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: but he goes up another flight. He could not have 107 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: gotten in on that third floor. He had to come 108 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: in through the front door on one or the sliding 109 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: glass door on two. That he went all the way 110 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: up to three to continue killing. And there it is 111 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: where the other two girls were. Explain it, Stephanie, absolutely. 112 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: So First I want to start by saying, as you said, Nancy, 113 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: there are three stories in this building. On the top floor, 114 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: the third floor, Kaylee and Maddie were sleeping in the 115 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: same bed. On the second floor, Zanna and Ethan were sleeping, 116 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: and on the bottom floor there were two other roommates 117 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: who survived these attacks. And we're not harmed now. As 118 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: the father said, if this suspect did go through the 119 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: middle floor, he would have had to have gone up 120 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: the steps because there is no point of entry on 121 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: the third floor. So, as Ted just explained, if the 122 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: killer had chosen, assuming the killer did go through the 123 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: second floor, he or she could have, you know, attacked 124 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: Zanna and Ethan and then left but instead the killer 125 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: went upstairs to the third floor, again where there is 126 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: no point of entry. So that's why mister Gonzalez seems 127 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: to be explaining that he thinks this was a deliberate move, 128 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: not just something where a killer just went through the 129 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: home and attacked anything he or she saw. Let's hear 130 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: it from Steve will salve us one more time. This 131 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: is our cut one or two again. Steve was speaking 132 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: with our friends at Fox. There's a couple of things 133 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: that tell me with common sense, but I'm not a professional, 134 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: so I want to specify that. But they've said the 135 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: entry point was the slider or the window. It was 136 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: then the middle floor. So to me, he doesn't have 137 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: to go upstairs. His entry and exit are available without 138 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: having to go upstairs or downstairs. Looks like he probably 139 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: may have not gone downstairs. We don't know that for sure, 140 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: but I obviously went upstairs, so I'm using logic that 141 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: he chose to go up there when he didn't have to. 142 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: Another thing, were the injuries significantly different on those two 143 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: girls I'm talking about Maddie and Kelley says the killer 144 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: at such a point to go up to the third floor. 145 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: Were their injuries more severe. Were they posed in any way? 146 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: Were they and when I'm say posing, I don't mean 147 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: anything dravagant, I mean were their faces covered up with 148 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: a pillow? Were they unclothed that were they moved in 149 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: any way that would also differentiate them from the other victims. 150 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut one twenty four. This 151 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: is Jim Murray at Inside Edition published reports day that 152 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: Kayley was subjected to a more brutal attack than the 153 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: other three victims. She was killed on the same bed 154 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: along with her best friend, Madison Mogan. News Nation reporter 155 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: Brian Enton is in Idaho covering the investigation. There's a 156 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: number of different theories possible since her wounds were more 157 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: significant than Maddie's, is it possible she was the target? Yes? 158 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: Or is it possible that that she woke up and 159 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: was trying to fight back and that that Maddie was 160 00:10:44,080 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: the target? Time stories with Nancy Grace straight out to 161 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: forensic expert found of the Cold Case Research Institute. You 162 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: can find her at Colcase crimes dot org. Cheryl McCollum, 163 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: Jump in fancy. It depends to me on where the 164 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: wounds were. So if the killer concentrated on her face, 165 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: her neck, her chest, maybe even her breast. That's going 166 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: to be very telling. So it's not just a matter 167 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: of she had more stab wounds, but where those stab 168 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: wounds are located could be very talian of this killer, 169 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, Stephanie Pogonas Johnny Spice ins digital, I understand 170 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: all the wounds were in the torso area. Is that 171 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: correct or no? You know, I'm not necessarily sure about that. 172 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: It could be correct, but what I do know is 173 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: that each of the victim were stabbed several times. Now, 174 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: as we heard, mister Gonstald has explained that his daughter 175 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: did mention that she was significantly injured here. But each 176 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: of the victims showed signs not only of several stab wounds, 177 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: but some of them also showed signs of fighting back. 178 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: The medical examiner also said that investigators believed the victims 179 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: were asleep when they were initially attacked. It's unclear though, 180 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: who woke up and who tried to defend themselves before 181 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: they were ultimately killed. To you, Ted Williams, joining US 182 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: former DC police detective now defense attorney, we were told 183 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: that the stab wounds were in the torso, but as 184 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullin pointed out, if let's just hypothesize if Kelly 185 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: or Maddie's wounds were in the breasts or in any 186 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: other area that would somehow give a psychological differentiation to 187 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: their wounds that would be significant. Do you know anything 188 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: about that, Ted, not a lot. The medical examiner has 189 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: tried to speak out about Webby work pauld on frand 190 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: the corn or. She is not a medical doctor. And 191 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: I was really surprised when she gave that interview right 192 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: off the bat and started giving all these opinions that 193 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: I would have thought the police would want to keep 194 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: close to the vest that I remember it and it's 195 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: surprised living hell out of me. And you're absolutely right. 196 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: But the information that was given, and let's just say 197 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: for the purpose of our discussion here that Kayley was 198 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: the target. That is where investigators would have to thought 199 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: really significantly working backwards. But if they fought, if they 200 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: did anything, or there may be some DNA that they 201 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: will be able to develop us some physical evidence. If 202 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: you are stabbing somebody, you have a knife. There's a 203 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: great deal of blood and your hand. If you're stabbing somebody, 204 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: you have the knife in your hand, there's always a 205 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: possibility that you could slip within the blood. And I 206 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: hate to sound so gory about this, but you can 207 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: flip into the blood and you can cut yourself with 208 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: the knife. We know that this was a large knife 209 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: that was used. From all indications, it appears as though 210 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: one knife, that's all we've heard about, that was used 211 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: on four of the victims. So and the only thing 212 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: I hate is this misinformation about it may have been 213 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: a military knife but is kind of a knife. All 214 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: we know is that it was a large knife. It 215 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: could very well been a butcher knife. Yes, anything that's 216 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: fix blade. You're absolutely right. Okay, guys, I hope you're 217 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: sitting down here. He comes Dale Carson, high profile lawyer 218 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: of Jacksonville, but more importantly for my purposes, former fed 219 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: with the FBI as an agent, former cop Dale Carson. Okay, Dale, 220 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: let's have it all right. Look, from my perspective, there 221 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: are two ways this could have gone down, and I 222 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: think it's fairly clear from the evidence someone either came 223 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: in on the second floor or someone came in on 224 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: the first floor. If the timings are not right, and 225 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: the police are not letting go with the information about 226 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: why they know how they know when people returned home. Now, 227 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: the people on the first floor returned about one am. 228 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: So did they hear people go up the steps to 229 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: the second floor? Is that how they know what time? 230 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: And if that's the take no, no, no, del Carson, no, 231 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: some of them. One of the girls is on the phone. 232 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: Wasn't it two fifty two am? So we know the 233 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: murders were after two fifty two am. And I can 234 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: guarantee you year and damn tee you that's a technical 235 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: legal word that if they had heard somebody creeping up 236 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: and down the stairs, they would have done something. They 237 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: were asleep and their beds when they were attacked. They 238 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: didn't hear a thing, not creeping, Okay, walking people on 239 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: the second floor could have left someone into the property 240 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: and that person could have been in there waiting for 241 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: the other people to come to the top floor. Okay, Well, 242 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: there's a unique theory that they let the killer in. Guys, 243 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: we are talking about the possibility that one of these 244 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: girls was the victim. And according to reports, Kelly Gonsalvos 245 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: had injuries that were different from the other injuries, maybe 246 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: simply more brutal. Stephanie begonis are you getting any sense 247 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: of how her injuries were different? Police have even mentioned 248 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: that the family that they are not even communicating with 249 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: the family in the sense that the family is getting 250 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: information elsewhere. Yeah, we know about all the families frustration, 251 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: and I don't blame them. The family is now convinced 252 00:16:54,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: they're doing the right thing by hiring a private investigator. No, no, no, 253 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut one eighteen Steve and 254 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: Christie gone Salvas. Somebody isn't communicating. There's nothing being released. 255 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: It seems like they're trying to suppress the story. We 256 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: want to put rewards out there, like, don't do that. Yeah, 257 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: I get it. Your town doesn't want to have reward 258 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: posts posted all over when you come and you do 259 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: your rush. You're not going to get a lot of 260 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: students if they see those things. But this community is 261 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: not gonna heal and tell this guy's pulled off the streets. 262 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: It ain't gonna happen. Think it through, It's not gonna happen. 263 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: He has to be off the streets. We all are 264 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: working for the same thing and more from Steve Gonn 265 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: salveus Listen. We know that this is getting three weeks 266 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: in and it's starting to get We don't want it 267 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: to go cold. We're reaching out. I reach out to 268 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: friends down in California today, that have connections that we're 269 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: hoping to get, raise some money, to get a reward, 270 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: to get a private investigator, third party, third party. Why 271 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: the private round? Do y'all worry that at the end 272 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: of this week that this case made them cold? We're scared. 273 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: We don't want to a photo up there with the 274 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: reward offer and information that kind of sounds like you're 275 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: trying to like suppress the story. I mean, why do 276 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: you not need help? But hey, I could be wrong, 277 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: and your officers. I apologize if I'm wrong. Yeah, I 278 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: want to please forgive me, Please forgive me. But if 279 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: but if you don't have the information people do know, 280 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: if they don't, Okay, joining me right now. Renowned private 281 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: investigator Robert Crispin, former federal Taskforce with the Department in Justice, 282 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: also with a d EA in Miami. Never lack of 283 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: business there, former homicide detective now founder of Crispin Special 284 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: Investigations at Crispin Investigations dot com. Robert, I think I 285 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: heard Dale Carson moaning in the background. Groaning, don't it, 286 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: don't hire hire a PI. But if the family is 287 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: feeling though, that was Ted Williams groaning. Okay, if the 288 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: family feels like they got to hire a PI, whose 289 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: fault is that they're not getting information from the cops. 290 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: So listen, he's not wrong and saying no, no, no. However, 291 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: I disagree with both of you. There's a reason to 292 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: hire an investigator, and there's a post of reasons not 293 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: to hire an investigator. The reason the family wants to 294 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: bring in an investigators because they're not getting anything from 295 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: law enforcement. Okay, that's intentional. And you know, mister Williams 296 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: will tell you as I'll tell you in a case 297 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: of this magnitude or during a homicide investigation, you got 298 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: to shut your mouth. Way too much information has been 299 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: released on this the method, the types of injuries, the 300 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: weapon used. So when they do catch somebody, because a 301 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: lot of that information came from the coroner, not the 302 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 1: family did. And that never it never should have happened. 303 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: It never should have happened. But here's here's a good 304 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: part about hiring an investigator once that crime scene. The 305 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: right investigator, someone with experience, and I think mister Williams 306 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: will tell you this. Once that crime scene has been 307 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: released and the last law enforcement boot is out the 308 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: door and it's been turned back over to the owner, 309 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: the first boots that are going in is a guy 310 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: like me or a guy like mister Williams. Because crime 311 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: scenes talk to you. As soon as you step in 312 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: the door. That crime scene wants to tell you what happened, 313 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: and it's going to tell you from the appearance of 314 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: the crime scene, the damage, what's been cut out by 315 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement. Is there, you know, is the mattress gone, 316 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: Is there a large section of the carpet gone? Are 317 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: there holes in the wall? It just it tells you 318 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: how this happened. And systematically, the trained investigator can go 319 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: through and he can tell you, I think this is 320 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: how it happened. Did they kill him on the first 321 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: on the second floor first, or they kill him on 322 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: the third floor first. Well, we really don't know that, 323 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: although everyone's telling us that. But you know what's going 324 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: to tell us. The crime scene is going to tell 325 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: us because if they kill them on the second floor first, 326 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: we got blade footprints going upstairs. If we got blade 327 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: fits coming downstairs, then we know that the top one 328 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: happened first. So what the point of trying to tell 329 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: you is The crime scene does tell you who did it? 330 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: You just need to get in there now. I'd like 331 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: to know what does law enforcements victim advocate UNI to 332 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: corral these victims and get them in and talk to them. 333 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: I don't really like the way you said corral like 334 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: they're a bunch of livestock to be herded into a fan. 335 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: I mean to get the family in and talk to 336 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: them and keep them under wraps and explain to them. Listen, 337 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: we want to tell you certain things. But if I 338 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: tell you this and victims emotions run away, and they're 339 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: not law enforcement, the emotions will run and they talk 340 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: if a specific fact gets out, because when they catch 341 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: this person, they're going to get a ton more evidence. 342 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joining me. I disagree with both Ted Williams 343 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: and Robert Crispin because I'm hearing the anger and the 344 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: frustration and the hurt and the murder of victims family's voices. 345 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: When every time I hear Steve comes Elvis, I WinCE 346 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: and I've been there. I've been the murder of victims family. 347 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 1: And when you don't know what's going on. It's terrible. 348 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: The first and you were with me, Cheryl, the first 349 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: thing I would do is find the victims family, find 350 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: them at their home, in their backyard, at their office. 351 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: I'd wait at their car till they came out, get them, 352 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: explain to them what's happening. You don't have to give 353 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: away all of your evidence, but when they have questions, 354 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you need to feel them as best as you can. 355 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: You don't need them having to go and I don't 356 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: fault the victim's family having to go on national TV 357 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: to try to get answers. That is not right, Cheryl. 358 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: There's no excuse and not communicating. They should talk to 359 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: these families every single day. That should be the first 360 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: thing they do when they get to their desk. Here's 361 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: what I've got today. This is what I'm doing. I 362 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: will call you with any updates. I can give you 363 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: their desk, Cheryl. When you are dealing with a case 364 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: like this, you get in your car and you go 365 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: to them, of course, and see them face to face. Nancy, 366 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: you're you've got a department of only thirty five people. 367 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: They have got over two thousand tips. They are so 368 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: out of their league. They need help. So what I'm 369 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: saying is, if they get to their desk and they're 370 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: running through their day and there to do list, the 371 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: first thing they should do is reach out to that 372 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: family period period. Wait wait, wait, wait please, I don't 373 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: mean the interrupted I got you look there. A rabbit 374 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: is right. There is a difference bent between law enforcement 375 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: establishment or reply with a family, keeping that reply and 376 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: their protection of an investigation. Law enforcement do not do, not, 377 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: under any circumstance, have to tell a family everything that's 378 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: going on, all most of what's going on in the 379 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: family inform I don't have a problem with that, But 380 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: Robert is right, you bring in a private investigator. Why 381 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: can't both of you be right? Why can't we all 382 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: agree that this family has been unattended. They're not getting 383 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: the contact with the cops that they need, and they're 384 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: having to go on national TV to try to get answers. 385 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: There is a medium between meeting with the family and 386 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: spilling the whole case and not meeting with the family 387 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: at ACTE. What's going on here is you've got from 388 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: investigators in your Shoholder is right. They're inexperience in this 389 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: kind of investigation. They haven't had a. I'm a side 390 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: out there put a last seven years. I know so 391 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: so now very much inexperience. Okay, you know what you're 392 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: reminding me. I've ted you and Crispin. You're reminding me 393 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: of my husband, Karen. Start with me. Renowned psychologists joining 394 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: inside of New York, Karen starting dot com. That's Karen. 395 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: When to see Karen. David drives like a ninety five 396 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: year old grandma. Okay, and he'll be going about literally 397 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: eighteen miles an hour. I put him on ways to 398 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: see how slowly he's going. I'm like, can you speed 399 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: up for Pink's sake before I my head blows off. 400 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: He goes, well, I don't want to run down those children. 401 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, isn't there a happy medium? Can you go 402 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: thirty miles an hour and not run over the children 403 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk? Is there a middle ground here? And 404 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: I think that's what we're saying, Karen. You don't have 405 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: to open up all of your files to the family 406 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: in order to give them what they need. You need 407 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: to have empathy to the family. It's really essential. I mean, 408 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: you know what it's like to be addictive. These people 409 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: need to be in touch they need to They have 410 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: to walk, and I get it, they need to walk 411 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: a very narrow line, but they have to be able 412 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: to let them know what's going on. If they are 413 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: inexperience right then they need to have other quarry an. 414 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm getting some information right now, We've got to address 415 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: and it's about a stalker. Got a one twenty three 416 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: our friends at kr em very quickly. Investigators say they 417 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: looked into an incident in mid October, which is where 418 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: they believe the stalker claims originated that Kaylee made the 419 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: friends now. According to police, Kayley was an unidentified local business. 420 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: Two men were seen inside attempting to pick up women. 421 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: One of those men appeared to follow Kayley out to 422 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: her car, but did not make any contact with their 423 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: according to police. Investigators say both men have been investigated 424 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: and cleared as suspects and also take a listen to 425 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: one fourteen our friends at Fox. The fact that no 426 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: one is going to reveal themselves so far as being 427 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 1: potentially the person who was going after it means that 428 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: maybe there was something that went on some time ago. 429 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that it happened that night or a 430 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: week or two before. But I've seen cases post my 431 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: back experience where it's been two years when someone has 432 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 1: come back and who had been felt disenfranchised or in 433 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: some way anyway disc and harbored that resentment, harbored that feeling, 434 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: and it came back in committed committee killing. So it 435 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: is possible that this is something that that's why maybe 436 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: more difficult for police to find out who the suspect is. 437 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: It could be further back in the past and very 438 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: nuanced and very kind of veiled only in the killer's mind. 439 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: So Stephanie Pogott is shorting us from fox Ney's digital 440 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about an alleged stalker? Well, so, 441 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, this is something that Kayley is supposedly even 442 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: mentioned to her own father that she felt as though 443 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: she might have had a stalker, or she made some 444 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: sort of comments about her feeling that she might have 445 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: had one. Now, this is something that police have questioned 446 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: many people about. They say until just yesterday, they had 447 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: not disclosed any additional details. Just yesterday, police said they 448 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: think they might have learned what Kayley was possibly referring to. 449 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: The police said in mid October, two men were seen 450 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: inside a local business in Moscow Apparently one of the 451 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: men appeared to be following Kayley inside the business, and 452 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: after she left that business, the mail then stopped stopped 453 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: following her, and he didn't appear to make any contact 454 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: with her. But police said that when they did speak 455 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: to both men, they learned that they were trying to 456 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: meet women at the business. Police said they were able 457 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: to corroborate this and they have not found any evidence 458 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: to suggest that either of the men was involved in 459 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: these murders so far. Okay, question what business it was? 460 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: I had heard that it was a local grocery store, 461 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: but unfortunately I don't have more beyond that at this moment. Okay, 462 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: how does that factor? Anton Williams, Well, it's another lead 463 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: that you have to follow up on and you have 464 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: to rule out Dad today. It's interesting about this falcon. 465 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: I've always believed that it is not part of this investigation, 466 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: but it leads. Every lead, every lead has to be 467 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: followed up on, and this is just another lead that 468 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: was followed up on the stalking lead, and it appears 469 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: to be going nowhere. But again, Nan, say what I 470 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: want to say, and I think I a guess understand, 471 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: We've got a lot of inexperienced individuals in this investigation. 472 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: I know the FBI is involved, I know that the 473 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: Idaho State Police is involved. But we have a lot 474 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: of the inexperienced people running this investigation, and that is 475 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: very concerning to be well, what about the idea of 476 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: the stalker Cheryl McCollum, Because it keeps coming up, it 477 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: keeps coming up. And here's where it's got some legs 478 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: for me. Her dad believes it. She stayed, did it 479 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: to more than one person, and she was only there 480 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: to show her new friend her car, I mean her 481 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: friend her new car. She wasn't supposed to be there. 482 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: And this person that murdered these four people took an 483 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: extra step to go upstairs. He didn't go to the basement. 484 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: So it looks to me like everything is pointing to 485 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: Kaylee Bean the target. And if she made that statement 486 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: and she sold her other car and put on there 487 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: that she was moving across the country, she gave some 488 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: information out so if somebody wanted to stop her from leaving, 489 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: they could do just that. Time stories with Nancy Grace 490 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: straight out to Cheryl McCallum, Colcase Researchester to jump in. Cheryl, 491 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: one thing I haven't heard anybody mentioned is whether or 492 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: not the killer took souvenirs or a souvenir. Bad thing 493 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: is when you're doing a victimology, the person that could 494 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: best help law enforcement here was also murdered. And that's 495 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: each other's best friend. Getting back to the PI, here's 496 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: the reason a PI might be really good in this case. 497 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: Locating witnesses. Sometimes people will speak to a civilian when 498 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: they will not speak to law enforcement. Locating video and 499 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: searching social media. A thirty five member department cannot tackle 500 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide by theirselves. You know, I've got some 501 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: of my guests talking out of both sides of their 502 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: mouth because they're saying, don't hire a PI, and they're 503 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: saying there's not enough cops. And I want to follow 504 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: up with Cheryl. McCollum just said, Cheryl, you remember that 505 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: big Arson murder. I tried right before I left the 506 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: DA's office, Goode to Court TV. Oh. Yes, that chase 507 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: was overwhelming. And then I found an incredible resource. It 508 00:31:54,920 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: was the insurance company's private investigator, Cort Guy. I had 509 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: worked this case just as hard as the Arson investigators, 510 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: and he had a wealth of information. Then my investigators 511 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: didn't have, not because they're flat footed or stupid or lazy. 512 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: He just had additional resources they didn't have. And I 513 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: got a treasure trove of information from that Arson private 514 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: investigator for the assurance company. So I say, take all 515 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: the info you can get. I hear somebody jumping in, 516 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: Is it Dale or Ted? You don't want the detective 517 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: private investigators to interfere with an already very very complex case. 518 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: That's the problem. And we only have thirty five members 519 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: on a department. You can't devote an individual detective or 520 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: officer to each of the family. I didn't ask for that. 521 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: What we're saying, Look right now, we don't have any 522 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: big suspect, none, none, So that means that it could 523 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: be someone close to the family. We don't know the 524 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: answer to those questions. And your point is, well, the 525 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: simply you gotta wait until the detectives who do have 526 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: access to all of the information have an opportunity to analyze. Well, 527 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: you know what, Dan Carson, you can set up in 528 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: your ivory tower, at your your penthouse suite. You've got 529 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: their meeting clients in your leather chair, blah blah blah. 530 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: But these families are suffering. And unless the police speak 531 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: to them and handle them with kid gloves and feed 532 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: them enough information that they understand these cases on truck, 533 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna have them hiring pis and spouting information on 534 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: the airwaves because they don't know what else to do. 535 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: They got their backs in the corner. Yeah, yeah, I 536 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: understand the frustration of the family, but the families are 537 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: not running a criminal investigation. I didn't say they were 538 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: the m The victims are dead. The victims you're dead, 539 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: and in order to get justice for them, everybody needs 540 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: to quiet down and let the police do whatever work 541 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: they can do. If they interfere with that is just insanity. 542 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: Bill is right, though Nancy you cannot. But you got 543 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: to look there are two aspects of this case. That 544 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: is to catch the killer of killers, and the second 545 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: aspect is the successful prosecution of the killer killer and 546 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: what private investigator at this stage could interfere with that process. 547 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: And also, think about it, the private investigator is not 548 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: gonna have access kill the evidence. The police are not 549 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: gonna be talking and given the private investigator information, I 550 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: do agree with everyone here that the family needs to 551 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: be kept in the loop as best you can well 552 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,439 Speaker 1: that is happening. Okay, everybody pipe down, Karen start won't 553 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: see Karen, it better be profound, go just not have 554 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. This is a mixed message 555 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: that they're inexperience, they don't know what they're doing, and 556 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: yet we shouldn't have more people in trying to help. 557 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. You got the Houdaho, you 558 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: have the Otdahole State police involved, you got the FBI. 559 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know why you're screaming there's 560 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: not enough cops. So there are enough cops. What is 561 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: the private investigator gonna do it? And do not know? 562 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: We'll let him figure that out because like I just please, yeah, 563 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: help me out here, man from me about I can 564 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: tell you exactly what a private investigator is going to 565 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: do at this stage. He's going to jeopardize the entire investue. 566 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: Yeah everything, Yeah, law enforcement has done because now polutely 567 00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: yeahst N will tell you you get one shot at 568 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: these interviews, one shot and yeah, but there is some 569 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: intator can do. There is something that they can do, 570 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: and that's to create the nexus between law enforcement and 571 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: the family. They can demonstrate to the family here's the 572 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: things that they are doing, and they don't even have 573 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: to have the information we as old private investigators. No, 574 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: certain things are going to transpire, and if you communicate 575 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: that to the family, then all of them and they're like, oh, Jackie, 576 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna have to cut everybody's mid Cheryl McCollum, 577 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: I just want to point out that on all the 578 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: cases I prosecuted, I never had someone hire a family 579 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: victim's family hire a private investigator. Absolutely not, and you 580 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: know why because they were with me lockstep every bit 581 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: of the way. And no, I did not give them 582 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: the whole file. And that thought never even occurred to 583 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: me to give them the whole file or gonna tell 584 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: them everything. But if they had asked me, I would 585 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: try to tell them without jeopardizing the investigation. Or you 586 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: would simply explain why I can't tell you exactly. That's 587 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: easily explained. But I'll tell you something, Nancy, again, you 588 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: are talking about a small department and they are over 589 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: their head. But I want to point out one more thing, 590 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: not just private investigators, but law enforcement use seis all 591 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: the time. They use civilians. And the problem when you 592 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: bring in the state confidential in four months that's what 593 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: she's saying. And here's the thing. When you bring in 594 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: the state police to a place like Moscow, they don't 595 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: work that area. If this guy's in plain sight, which 596 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: I believe he is, I believe he's a local. I 597 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: believe he's right there. They don't know the rhythm of 598 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: that community. Hey, hey, Cheryl, yes, can you open up 599 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: everybody's mike? This is important, guys. Number one, the family 600 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: says that cops are clearing people too quickly. Let's hear it. 601 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: Cut one five. This is Kelly's dad at Fox News. 602 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: Alibis just share the alibi. If you're not sharing an 603 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: alib to me, it tells me that you're not one 604 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: hundred percent confident that it's gonna stick, or you have 605 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: somebody who's gonna come forward and say, hey, I don't 606 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: know what he told you or that person's alibi was, 607 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: but I have this information. I have something. So if 608 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 1: you don't share the alibi, it makes it a little 609 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: bit harder for us to just let those go. And 610 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: I've said it before, I don't I don't want to 611 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,479 Speaker 1: make victims out of just by standards and witnesses. So 612 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: I just share those things, and that would help. No, no, no, 613 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: you don't go sharing alibis. No, you do not share alibis. 614 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: None of these people are actually clear. I agree with 615 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: that the people that come in, they will continue to 616 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: be suspects of people up interest, but it's driven by 617 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: the evidence. You don't go to the family and tell 618 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: a family they said what they said and he's saying 619 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: that she said. That is not the way you conduct 620 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: and investigate you. I gotta agree with you on that, 621 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: Ted William, Stephanie Pagonis. I was struck by a photo 622 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: that my producer where Sydney they're Sydney, showed me the 623 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: other day. It's a picture of Ethan, actually the victim Ethan, 624 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: and he is sitting Ethan Shapen, and he's sitting in 625 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: the Sigma Kaye house. And it's not just him, but 626 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 1: he's sitting in behind him as a window beside him, 627 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: and right through the window you can look directly into 628 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: the murder house. I don't think people understand that you 629 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,320 Speaker 1: can look right into the girl's windows from the Sigma 630 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: Kaye House. Not only can you see it directly from there, Nancy, 631 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: but students frequently even walk this path. They will walk 632 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: from an area behind the crime scene over to an 633 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: area near the fraternity house. And I believe it's something 634 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: students frequently do because I've been told from students there 635 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: that it's called a cut, Yes, shortcut exactly. And you 636 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: can say when there's not any snow, where the grass 637 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: is just dead, there's no grass there because people take 638 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:09,959 Speaker 1: the cut so many times, highly highly significant, Crispin, Why 639 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: is it so important? I mean, I've often learned that 640 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: killers covet what they see. And you could see these 641 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: girls right through their slide last door. I mean, listen, 642 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: he didn't go inside there wondering if the blinds were closed. 643 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: You know, he just went in there on a rage 644 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: and did what he did. And when he left, I 645 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: guarantee it, he took a lot of evidence with him 646 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: and he left a lot of evidence. He left his fingerprints. 647 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: I guarantee you. He left his blood, he left his footprints, 648 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: he left a fingerprint, a palmprint, he left something. Every 649 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: criminal who commits a homicide leaves something or take something, 650 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: agree or disagree, del Carson. Look, there's no question that 651 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: when two crime scene, a bad criminal interfaces with a 652 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: crime scene, they leave something, they take something away. But 653 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: that's boned away. You've just pointed out. And what Cheryl's 654 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: pointed out is that those open windows allow an assailant 655 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: to watch them over time. And this assailant may have 656 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: known that Taylor was leaving, so he wouldn't have another 657 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: opportunity to interface with her, and it probably really frustrated him. 658 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: And today you can use optics to enhance the view. 659 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: So I would be curious to anybody have optics that 660 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: are sufficient to magnify those images and store those images, 661 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: which is what serial perpetrators do and sex offenders. Okay, Cheryl, Well, 662 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: I would break this down this way. You've got one 663 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: house that's a crime scene, two bedrooms that are crime scenes, 664 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: and then four bodies that are crime scenes. And that's 665 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: how I would have worked this thing. So you work 666 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: your way out and end to each individual person. There 667 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: is no way it is not going to be clear 668 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: who was killed at first. I would have swabbed every 669 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: stab wom you would know, just like Jeffrey McDonald. If 670 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: you've got different you know blood types. That knife is 671 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: going to go from victim one to victim two. That 672 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: means victim two's got victim one and victim two's blood, 673 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: victim three would have victim one, victim two, victim three 674 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 1: blood and etc. They're going to know they're going to 675 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: be able to piece this together. We've had a month 676 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: and we've got to give them a little more time. 677 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: This is a ton of information to go through when 678 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: you start talking about videotapes and victimology, and the fraternities 679 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: and sororities and classes and where they worked, and their 680 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: families and their exes. This is a ton to go through. 681 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: Just social media would be somebody's full time job on 682 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: this thing. Karen Start. I think that it's really important 683 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: if we keep saying to have those family in touch 684 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: with and know that it's being worked done, to find 685 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: a way to communicate with them, because it does take time. 686 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: Sharaoh's right, and they need to know that this is 687 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,839 Speaker 1: something that's important, really importance. Like you said, Nancy ched 688 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: Williams's final thought, I agree with both of your guests 689 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: that we have to continue to look at this in 690 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 1: a broad perspective. You've got to keep their parents engage. 691 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: There is always a possibility that the parents know something 692 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: or nugget about the killer. I still believe that the 693 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: killer had been killer. Should we say have been in 694 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 1: that house before. I don't think this was the first time, 695 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,720 Speaker 1: the first rodeo in that house. And when I say rodeo, 696 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm not being I'm very over mind for that four 697 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: college students died in that home. Unfortunately, we wait as 698 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: justice unfoles. Nancy Grace Crown's story sunning Off, good Bye Friend,