1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Quody doctors with Joseph's gotten More. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: as a god forsake in town. I just I don't 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: believe in that. I don't think God forsakes places. People 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: act on places, and they create a culture. Many times. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: Sometimes so the environment will create a culture. And it's 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: kind of like being over in London. You know, if 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 2: you're walking around in London and you're complaining about her reigning, 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: they'll say, well, it's not bad weather, it's poor clothing choices. 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: And I think that that can be said. That's a 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: through line fancy Hollywood term there, that's a through line 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: that you hear many times in life. And listen for 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: every town that has something bad, there is something good. 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about one such location today, 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: a place that I'm kind of familiar with called Bama Beaumont, Texas, 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: And for years and years Beaumont has, you know, held 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: the title, what was it called the Carcinogen Coast. They were, 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 2: you know, the area just outside of Houston and Lake Charles, Louisiana. Uh, 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: those areas where you had all of the petroleum industry 20 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: and chemical factories and all these sorts of things, but 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: had a lot of cool stuff too. You know, you 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: had access to some of the best fishing in the world, 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: old spindle Top. People may have heard of it, that 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: that fantastic will find back decades and decades ago. It's 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: made that location, that that area has made a lot 26 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: of people wealthy. But there is kind of a darkness 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: there sometimes. I think you you wait with baited breath 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: here in hurricane season because in an instant everything that 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: you have can be gone, and that has happened a 30 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: number of times in Beaumont. And don't get me started 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: about the heat and humidity. But for all of that 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: good stuff, you've got great food, you've got great places 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: to visit and go boat riding, and all those sorts 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: of things. So you do, in fact take the good 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: with the bad. But today, on bodybacks, I want to 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: talk to you about a case that's wow started all 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: the way back in nineteen ninety nine, and it's the 38 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: case of a single mother, a single mother who was 39 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: raising her child who at the time I think was 40 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: probably fourteen or fifteen when she went missing. And all 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: these years later, she's finally been found identified, and someone 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: has finally been held responsible. 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: For her murder. 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. I 45 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: don't know if you've ever been down I headed westbound 46 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: out of Louisiana and going into Texas. 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: I have not. 48 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: It's an interesting part of the world. It's really fascinating. 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: You cross over the crossover state line coming out of 50 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 2: Louisiana and the names don't change very much. You know 51 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: that area Dine round Lake Charles, in that area. I 52 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 2: have ancestors that settled that area. I had a great 53 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: great grandmother that never spoke English, she only spoke Cajun French. 54 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: With all that background, we have in store for us 55 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: today the story of Kimberly Langwell, a thirty four year 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: old single mother of a fifteen year old who has 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: really been in and out of a rough relationship with 58 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: a guy named Terry Rose. They had dated for a while, 59 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: but Kimberly had broken up with him after the abuse 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: got to the point where she was done. You know, 61 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: she just couldn't take it anymore, and she actually had 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: started dating another man and it was a hit. Her 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: daughter was so happy, you know that she actually was 64 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: with this new boyfriend who actually was his name was 65 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: kim Weatherford, and he was respectful, he was kind and 66 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: treated her mother the way that Tiffany thought mom. 67 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: Should be treated. 68 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: So it's with that background that we come into Kimberly 69 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: Langwell leaving work, going to run by her old boyfriend's 70 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 3: house to pick something up and then gonna meet Tiffany 71 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: and Ken. They're having dinner together that night. They've got 72 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: plans for dinner that evening. When Kimberly Langwell does not 73 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: show up for these pre arranged dinner plans with her 74 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: daughter and new boyfriend, it immediately, immediately Tiffany calls the 75 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 3: cops and we're talking within a couple of hours of 76 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: not being able to find her mom. It's nineteen ninety nine. 77 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: We did have technology then, we did have cell phones. 78 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: A lot of us had them. And anyway, when Tiffany 79 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: couldn't get up with her mom, she actually got up 80 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: with the police right away and reported her mother missing. 81 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: And yeah, first thing they did, well, let's clear the boyfriend, 82 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: you know, get the new boyfriend. So I'm getting this 83 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: out of the way, so you know that they were 84 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 3: they being the investigators, they were very quickly on this case, 85 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 3: and they very quickly had kim Weatherford and Tiffany, the 86 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: daughter and the boyfriend. They're isolated. Okay, they're not the problem. 87 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: But where is Kimberly Languell? Where did she go? 88 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: Joe? Yeah, because we don't know. 89 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: I have no idea. What's fascinating about this is that 90 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: first off, for folks that don't understand, this is and 91 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: just a reminder, this is July ninth nine. 92 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: Dave, Yeah, sorry, Oh no, that's okay. 93 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: I had to reflect back because I had to think 94 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: about what was I doing in nineteen ninety nine, and 95 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: it was so You're in the dead heat of the 96 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: summer there in South Texas, and Kimberly's thirty four years 97 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: old at the time, and you know, she's to leave 98 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: everything in the in the rear view mirror, you know, 99 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, it's those types of things 100 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 2: many times are hard, you know, to leave in the 101 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: rear view mirror. But they they did an exhaustive search 102 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: for and Dave, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out a 103 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: business name here that we haven't heard in a long time. 104 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: They did find something, oh I know, they found Ecker 105 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: her car in the parking lot of in Eckert's Drugs. 106 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: My wife and her sister both worked at Eckerd's Drugs. Yeah, 107 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: they don't exist anymore. I don't know who gobbled them up. 108 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: I'm sure some of our friends probably know the story 109 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: to that. But they were everywhere, you know, years and 110 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: years ago, all over the South yet Eckers. I don't 111 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: know about the rest of the country, but they were 112 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: all over the place, and inside of her vehicle, which 113 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: was I think like a nineteen ninety four Nissan Altama. 114 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, she was not there. They did not 115 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: have signs of that you would that you would commonly 116 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: associate with with blood, you know, like violence that took 117 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: place inside the cabin of a car, and I can't 118 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: remember where did they find were keys and her purse 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: in there as well? I think yeah, in the car 120 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 2: and she had cell phone. 121 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: That was the way I got to add this to it. 122 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: As long as we're there, because, as I mentioned, when 123 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: she didn't show up for the dinner with her daughter 124 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: and new boyfriend, her daughter goes to the police because 125 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: this is a big deal. And six months before this happened, 126 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: Terry Rose actually strangled her. He actually physically strangled Kimberly. 127 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 3: That was the where they and they were already broken 128 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: up when that happened. So Tiffany, her fifteen year old daughter, 129 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: was concerned about her going to do anything around Terry Rose. 130 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: So when she doesn't show up, boom, she's right off 131 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,679 Speaker 3: to the cops and they find her car within twenty 132 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 3: four hours. I mean, the actually they found it that night. 133 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: What does it. 134 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: Take within the constitution of a fourteen, fifteen year old 135 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: girl to be the one that's going to take this 136 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: on her shoulders and go and track down the authorities? Yep, 137 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I would have done it. You know, 138 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: at that age, if my mother had been missing, you 139 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: probably would have done it. But you know, when you 140 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: think about that, you know, to come most of the time, 141 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: when we think about people alerting, you know, alerting the police, 142 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: search teams, this sort of thing, it's it's generally an adult, 143 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: but you have and you know nowadays, you know, I 144 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: come across you know, you come across teenagers nowadays, and 145 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: even my college students. You speak to them and they 146 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: look like you've got three heads coming on of your shoulders, 147 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: like you know, you're an idiot. Why are you talking 148 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: to me, oh yeah, but to. 149 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: Have it doesn't happen. It happens every minute of the day. 150 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: Go to a grocery store that has a clerk that's 151 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 3: still in high school and when you you know, you're 152 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 3: trying to get their attention to pay for something because 153 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 3: they're on their phone and talking to somebody else. Hey 154 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: can you check the price on this? And it's like 155 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 3: are you speaking English? Yes, but hey, I do want 156 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: to add something. You know, I'm in the car. Okay, 157 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: Her purse and keys were missing. Her cell phone was 158 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: in the car. Cell phone was in the car. Okay, 159 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: So you've got her cell phone in the car, but 160 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 3: her purse and keys are missing. So you've got the 161 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: car that has parked at the Eckert's parking lot. And 162 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 3: you would think if you're taking your person your keys 163 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: with you, you take your cell phone. You know they go 164 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 3: cand in hand, right. 165 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of do. And did she you know, 166 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 2: here's a big quick investigative question. Well, in order to 167 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: get the car there. In order to get the car there, 168 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: it's not like nowadays. You know, those keys those cars 169 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: back then were not electronically keyed. These are keys you 170 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: had to place into the ignition more time. You know, 171 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 2: I'm talking about using an ignition as if it's something 172 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: from the olden days. But you know, taking a key 173 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: and inserting it into an ignition and turning it and 174 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: they're both gone, you know. Nowadays, you know, I know, 175 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: people will just you know, they'll have their keys in 176 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: their purse or in their pocket or whatever, and you 177 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 2: just press the button in the car and the car 178 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: turns over, you know, and you can just leave, exit 179 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: the vehicle and your keys go with you. But back then, 180 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: you know, she it wasn't like she would have left 181 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: them in the ignition, so the keys had to be 182 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: removed from the ignition and either gathered with the purse 183 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: or dropped into into the purse. Here's the question though, 184 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: why was her cell phone still in there? 185 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: Right? 186 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: You know? Why why did that occur? And we granted 187 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: we had technology back then to day, but it wasn't 188 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: as the tracking wasn't as sophisticated back then as it 189 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: is now. What wouldn't even approach it, you know, to 190 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: what we have nowadays. 191 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: I'm amazed how much has changed in the last ten years. Yeah, 192 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: just in the last ten years of where we were 193 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen versus where we are today, you know, 194 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 3: and now you're talking, you know, twenty five years ago, 195 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 3: and it was you know again not the dark ages 196 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 3: or anything by that. But still her cell phone was 197 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: left in the vehicle, her person keys are gone. So 198 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: to those looking at it, they said, the investigator said, 199 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: it suggested to them that there was a struggle, an abduction, 200 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 3: even but nothing was obviously broken, and there was no 201 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 3: sign of blood. So in their mind's eye, her purse 202 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: and keys going but her phone staying behind indicated something 203 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: to law enforcement. 204 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, unlike today as well, I think 205 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: that we would be the police would be so compelled, 206 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: just from a professional standpoint, if you had a vehicle 207 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: with a known owner that is missing, the entire the 208 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: entirety of the interior of that car would have been swabbed, Dave, 209 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: it would have been swabbed for those things that we 210 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: can't see. You know, you look back then, you know, 211 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: you look around for signs of struggle, you look for 212 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: blood deposition. But you know, at the molecular level, there 213 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: was no way we could have even begun back then 214 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: to think that we could swab for perhaps touch DNA. 215 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: The answers to Kimberly's location would have to rely on 216 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: something else, and again that wouldn't happen for years and 217 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: years to come. You know. Most of the time, Dave 218 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: with the reason cases go cold and I'll bang the 219 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 2: drum forever and ever is not necessarily the fault of 220 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: the police. It's just not. It's the reality of you 221 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: don't develop new leads and you have more cases that 222 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: are piling on on and on and on and on, 223 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 2: and sooner or later, that little light that was kind 224 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: of flashing, you know over this case that is unsolved, 225 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 2: is diminished. It's dimmed, you know, however you want to 226 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: say it. It's no longer viable. And what happened in 227 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: was it twenty fourteen? It was actually they that's you 228 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: know when you think about how many years later. 229 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: That yes, when you sent this to me and I 230 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 3: was looking at it because you know, whenever you have 231 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 3: a missing person and I think about where I like 232 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: the first thing you did, where was I? In July 233 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: of nineteen ninety nine, where was I? 234 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: What was I doing? 235 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: And if you remember, it was why two K? We 236 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 3: were all preparing for Y two K because the world 237 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: was going to stop at Why two k you needed 238 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: to buy a generator in your dry food and all that. 239 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 3: That's all you're stockpiling back then. 240 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: Remember, Oh yeah, I remember it very well. 241 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: Of weird stuff going on. But fifteen years go by 242 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 3: and there's no sign of her. Her once fifteen year 243 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: old teenage daughter, Tiffany is now an adult. She's a 244 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: thirty year old adult and does not know what happened 245 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: to her mother. And because it happened so fast, gone 246 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: in the blink of an eye, there was little that 247 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 3: could be done, Joe. After they did the basic look around, 248 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: they didn't have anything. And I wonder, I don't know 249 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 3: what evidence they had or didn't have, but I know this. 250 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: They didn't have enough evidence to go look at Terry 251 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: Rose's house, you know. No, even though that was the 252 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: last known location she was going to be, even though 253 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 3: they knew that there had been violence in that relationship previously, 254 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: they could not develop enough evidence to take it in 255 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: front of a judge and say we. 256 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: Need to go to search this guy's house. 257 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, that's a fascinating point, David. I really 258 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: wonder how hard they pressed him. Yeah, at that moment 259 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: in Tom. The one other thing that I will tell 260 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: you about Beaumont is that Beaumont is not all rainbows 261 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: and unicorns. It has its share of crime and has 262 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: for years and years. It is a busy place. And 263 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder what happened in those initial meetings 264 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: with Rose, you know, when they go to talk to him. 265 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: Did were there any suspicions raised at that point in time? 266 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: Here's the other thing. Could the detectives develop any substance 267 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: of information at that moment in time to get a 268 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: search warrant at his house? Because you don't have a body. 269 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: This is the problem. Obviously, you don't have a body. 270 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: You don't have even have any evidence that some kind 271 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: of traumatic event has occurred. All you know is that 272 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: you've got this scal's car, that the person the per versus, missing, 273 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: keys are missing, cell phone's there, and the car is there, 274 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: and it's just parked in a parking lot outside of 275 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: a drug store. Where do you go from there to 276 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: try to develop information? And in this particular case, it 277 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: would seem as though that they didn't have a lot 278 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: to hang their hat on legally, because if they were 279 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: able to see him. Here's one interesting thing I think, Dave, 280 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: remember what you said earlier about his violence toward her. 281 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: He tried to choke her and one thing. And I'm 282 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: not please understanding hearing right. I'm not trying to Monday 283 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: Morning quarterback the cops. I'm just wondering if that's the 284 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: modality that he had chosen earlier and they had awareness 285 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: of that. I wonder how well they looked at his hands. 286 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: I wonder how well they looked at his face or 287 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: his neck to see if there were any scratch marks, 288 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: if there was any bruising anything left behind on him. 289 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 2: This would have been in the summer months, so he 290 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't probably have been wearing long sleeve shirts. There used 291 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: to be an old adage, if somebody shows up to 292 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: be interviewed by the police officers in the debt of 293 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: summer and they're wearing an overcoat, make sure that they 294 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: take the overcoat off or sweater or sweatshirt or anything 295 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: like that, because you want to be able to see 296 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: see their arms and hands. They're trying to mask something. 297 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: So they couldn't even develop anything then. And I'm thinking 298 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: back now, Wow, just think if they had actually developed 299 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 2: some information there, Dave, you would not be fighting against 300 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: the patina that sets in with time, how things change 301 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: over a period of time where those things that would 302 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: have looked fresh in those moments early on and had 303 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: not been yet subjected to say, environmental changes or whatever 304 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: the case might be, structural changes, it would still appear 305 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: like it would be glaring when you see it. But 306 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: you know, as as it turns out, and we're going 307 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 2: to tell that story, Joe. 308 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 3: You know, we mentioned this a minute ago about after 309 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: fifteen years, they had a prayer vigil to bring awareness 310 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: to her case in twenty fourteen. They did it on 311 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 3: July ninth, twenty fourteen. As I was researching this case, 312 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: you know, just from the media standpoint, I want to 313 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: see what they were reporting, because you know, you've got 314 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: a very sympathetic figure. 315 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: A single mom. 316 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, thirty four years old goes missing and never heard 317 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 3: from again, and they don't have a break in the case, 318 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: not anything. 319 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, her fifteen year old daughter's taking point on it. 320 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's ano fifteen years go by and they have 321 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 3: actually have a prayer vigil. And by the way, it 322 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 3: wasn't just for Kimberly Languall. 323 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: It was for other. 324 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: Crimes that had not been solved against women. But she 325 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 3: was the main focus. So they did it on July ninth, 326 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 3: on that anniversary date, but nothing was found. 327 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: Joe. 328 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: And so. 329 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 3: The reason we're covering this now is because in twenty 330 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 3: twenty four, it took until twenty twenty four before there 331 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 3: was a break in this case. The break in this 332 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: case happened with what is called a reliable informant. Now, 333 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: a reliable informant is somebody who has had contact with 334 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: law enforcement. 335 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: Usually he or she has been arrested. 336 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 3: Has actually fallen down the rabbit hole a couple of times, 337 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: and in order to get out of trouble, he or 338 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 3: she has given information to police that turned out to 339 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 3: be true and that's how they got out of the 340 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 3: trouble they were in, or lessened the punishment. 341 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: That they would receive, Yeah, that they would have received otherwise. Yeah, 342 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: So they could. 343 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: Have been an uncover paid informant too. 344 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, any number of things. But usually somebody doesn't just 345 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 3: one day leave their job as an accountant and call 346 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: the police and say, I'd like to be an informant 347 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: for you guys, what do you need? 348 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's usually somebody who. 349 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: Gets busted for you know something, you know, a drug 350 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: related defense or whatever. 351 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: I go hang out in a biker bar every single night. 352 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: There you go. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna 353 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: help you. 354 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's the person you don't want 355 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: involved in this. 356 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 357 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 2: Yes. 358 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: So the finder is so key. That's why Joseph Scott 359 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 3: Morgan has taught me the finder of the Lord the key. 360 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 3: Every time I see a finder, that's the person I'm 361 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 3: looking at every time. 362 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's and it won't necessarily be in every 363 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 2: obvious and obviously every single case that is going to 364 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: be the finder. However, it's the best. It's the best 365 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: bit of data that you have to be in your face, right. 366 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: It's it's that proverbial thread that you're going to pull fainting. 367 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: And in this particular case, when it comes to Kimberly, 368 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 2: you have to begin to think, well, is this a 369 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: big break that we wanted to have those prayers that 370 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: have been offered up now ten years prior to at 371 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 2: that prayer vigil. Is there a crack? Is there an 372 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: indication that maybe an answer is on the way, or 373 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: maybe just maybe is somebody going to wind up behind bars? 374 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: I hate tight spaces, Dave. I hate working in them. 375 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I think that it goes 376 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: back to I know that it does back to the 377 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: stuff I've dealt with mentally and emotionally and all that 378 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: sort of stuff from years and years ago. Is that 379 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: residue that kind of hangs on me? Do you know 380 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 2: that I cannot And I know I've mentioned it before, 381 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: but if my son or my wife comes into the 382 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: bathroom and they stand between me and the door and 383 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: my skin starts to crawl, I can't can't, I can't 384 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: take it. I have to get out of the room. 385 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: I try not. 386 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 2: I try to tamp it down, you know, but it's 387 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: just one of those things where I can't stand being 388 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 2: hemmed in at all. 389 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: Wow. 390 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 3: Okay, now here's my question for you. I actually made 391 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: a note to ask you this. Okay, all right, we've 392 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 3: gone all this time. It's April twenty twenty four. Kimberly 393 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: went missing July of nineteen ninety nine. There's been nothing. 394 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: There has been nothing, zilch nod of We don't. She 395 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 3: just vanished and all of a sudden. This reliable informant 396 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 3: tells police that Langwell's ex boyfriend Terry Rose, admitted that 397 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: she was murdered inside his home the same day she 398 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 3: went missing and was buried on the property. Now, based 399 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 3: on the informant information, Joseph Scott Morgan detectives obtained an 400 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: evidentiary search warrant for Roses residents and properties. Yeah, when 401 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 3: they get out there on the property, you're talking about 402 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 3: somebody who has been dead for twenty five years. What 403 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 3: are you really looking for? And if they're buried on 404 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 3: the property, what are you looking for after twenty five years. 405 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to find anything after that period of 406 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 2: time because the topography out there has If you're talking 407 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 2: about a dirt space, you know, in a yard, just 408 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: think about your own yard. A lot of that stuff 409 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 2: is reintegrated by that point in tom Okay, Like you're 410 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 2: not going to have like if you go out onto 411 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 2: a scene, if you go out onto a scene that's 412 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: a fresh burial, right, you'll see vegetation that's disrupted. As 413 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, you know, you'll see when perpetrators 414 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: bury bodies, you will find entire bits of plants that 415 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: are inverted and the roots are sticking up out of 416 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: the ground and the green leafy stuff is down, okay, 417 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: and it's it's so glaring you know, I mean you 418 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: you know, if you got there with the suspicion that 419 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 2: somebody's buried, it stands out. But Dave, they searched property, 420 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: didn't find anything. And what was fascinating about this case 421 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 2: is that, yeah, they searched outside of the home and 422 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 2: called no joy there was nothing out there. However, the 423 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: this is what I was getting through a minute ago 424 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: about being in closed space. It turns out that ground 425 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: penetrating radar had revealed that beneath the floor of the home, 426 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 2: which sounds like a crawl space, there was a big 427 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: area where there was no metal support. There was nothing 428 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: beneath the floorboards. But as it shot down you could 429 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: see that there was like an almost five y three 430 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 2: space that was hollowed out in the ground beneath beneath 431 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: Rose's bedroom. And so you know it that's going to 432 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: stand out, you know, with the GPR, when you're you're 433 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 2: rolling over an area, it's going to really strike like 434 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 2: you would. It's one of the things that people are 435 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 2: really attuned to. They use these a lot in forensic 436 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: anthropology programs to train the students. A matter of fact, 437 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: we're trying to get our hands on one at Jack 438 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: State to help our students, you know, understand how how 439 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: one works. It's so glaring to people that that utilize 440 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: these things all the time. They can read the topography 441 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 2: and they can read the read out on the screen 442 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 2: as it it begins to paint this picture. And they 443 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: used to do these big, you know, big print outs. 444 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 2: You know that you would go back and look over. 445 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of stuff is more in real 446 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: time now than it used to be, but you'll see 447 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 2: these changes in the soil that you have. How if 448 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: it's if there's a depression there sometimes dependent upon if 449 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: there's not a lot of interference, you can actually make 450 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 2: out the outline dave of human remains like you can 451 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: you can appreciate a skull. I've often compared it to 452 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: do you remember going to see an ultrasound of a 453 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 2: child where the technician is sitting there and they're saying, yeah, 454 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: see right here, and I'm thinking, what I don't see it. 455 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 2: It's kind of like going to an autopsy. You know, 456 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 2: people that aren't used to being in that environment. When 457 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 2: you open up you know, the chest and the abdomen 458 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: you're looking and I see it, and it will be 459 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: so glaring to me. But people are like, what are 460 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 2: you looking at? Everything looks the same to me, and 461 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: it takes time to read it. I think that that 462 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: translate translates to a lot of air areas in our life. 463 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: But when they saw this Dave beneath his bedroom floor 464 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 2: and that's something I want to get to. And they 465 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: began to examine the floor, you could see apparently where 466 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: a huge area of the floor had actually been cut away, wow, 467 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 2: and had been replaced in this area. And when the 468 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: authorities got out there and began to dig about, they 469 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: actually found blanketed remains that were stuffed down in this hole. 470 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: Now I know I've got my questions here because I'm 471 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 2: always fascinated. I'm always fascinated by individuals that are perpetrators 472 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: that will kill someone and then hang on to the remains. 473 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 2: And I've always felt I don't know how you feel 474 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 2: about this, I'd love to hear your opinion, but I've 475 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: always felt as though that it's a control issue relative 476 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 2: to access an opportunity. You know who's going to have 477 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: acts if you have possession over the body, Okay, no 478 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 2: one else is going to have right access to it. However, 479 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 2: if they get a search warrant. Yeah, and come to 480 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: your house. You're really rolling the dice, don't you think. 481 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: You know? 482 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 3: We had this discussion and in a current case with 483 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 3: the D four VD and Celeste in California, because of 484 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: her body being found in a car that registered to 485 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 3: Hindo was parked outside his house and had been moved, 486 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: but it was always right there along the street, and 487 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: we talked about it. Then why would you keep this 488 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 3: so close to home? Well, we have a number of 489 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: cases like that, and in this particular case, here's my 490 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: quag Joe. 491 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: The guy. 492 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 3: Buries her under his house, under his bedroom, and my 493 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 3: only thinking is, Okay, you've done the deed. Nobody saw 494 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: you do it. Because it happened inside your home, and 495 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 3: they come looking inside your home, they're not going to 496 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: find it. They're not going to find her. And as 497 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: long as he is in that home, nobody else is 498 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: going to have access to this spot. Now, if he 499 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: were to sell the home, somebody else has it. If 500 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: he were to take her and bury her body somewhere 501 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: out in the desert or whatever is around Beaumont, you know, 502 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 3: then somebody else could have access. 503 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: But swamp, Yeah, there you go. 504 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 3: But burying her underneath his bed. Hey, you know what, 505 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 3: the only person that's going to get in there is 506 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: somebody you either let in or finds the way to 507 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: do it. Which is why I'm bothered that you have 508 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 3: a man who had been in a relationship with Kimberly 509 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 3: up until six months previously or further back than that, 510 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: because they were broken up when he tried strangling her 511 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 3: in January of nineteen ninety nine, and you've got. 512 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: Records of this. 513 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: How did they not have the ability to stand in 514 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 3: front of a judge and say, you know, because that's 515 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: what with a search warrant. You actually have to present 516 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 3: your report of what you expect to find, where you 517 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: expect to find it, and why, and a judge looks 518 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 3: at it, and again, this is constitutional. Friends, you cannot 519 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: please it can't just come to my house and say 520 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: we hate Dave Mac we're going to find our ways 521 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: and you get in his house and look for something. 522 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: They can't go on a fishing expedition. 523 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: No, I can't, and you have to. And one other 524 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: thing people don't realize is that you have to state 525 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: what you're looking for, and you also have to stay 526 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: where you're going to be looking for these items. And 527 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: I love the fact that you mentioned the term fishing, 528 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: fishing expedition. I find it. It's kind of fascinating to me. 529 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: I really wonder if when they started searching the home, 530 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: if like a bolt, you know, the cops looked at 531 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: the floor and they're like, what the hell is this? 532 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 2: Why does this look like this? You know, we've got 533 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: this reliable person, and here's one more thing. I want 534 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: to know. Who does this and then runs their mouth 535 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: to somebody about it? 536 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? 537 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 3: Well, you know what, there are a number of convicted 538 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 3: felons sitting in prison right now, some even on death 539 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 3: row that got away with it until they told somebody else. 540 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: You know. 541 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: In this particular case, show Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch. Tim, 542 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: he was actually using the sonar, the side scan sonar 543 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 3: and everything else they use for that, I mean, the 544 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: ground penetrating sonar, right, Yeah, and with him before many times, Nancy, Yeah, yeah, 545 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 3: many many times. I loved him. He's a nice man. 546 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: But anyway, I've read some of his comments about this, 547 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 3: you know, and it was fascinating to me that early reports, 548 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 3: you know, because the press was all over this when 549 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 3: it came out that they were digging, they were out 550 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 3: of the house. First report was that a body was 551 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 3: found under the driveway in the front yard, and that's 552 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 3: what the press had and ran with. 553 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: Oh, look there's a picture. I saw their picture of 554 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: the e r T. The FBI e r T out there. Yeah, 555 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: and they busted up the concrete and it's like chunks, 556 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: chunks of concrete lay all over the place. Man, what 557 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: a disappointment that must be. 558 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: You know about it? 559 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: If that's what you're reliable in air quotes, you know, 560 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 3: person told you that that's where you would find the body. 561 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 3: I mean, what, but did they find something out there? 562 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 3: Was the body buried underneath the driveway and then moved? 563 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: Good question? 564 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: But God, that seems like a lot of trouble to 565 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: have to go to because you would have to encase 566 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 2: it in concrete cement and then crack that open, take 567 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 2: the body out, and then bring it in. Now is 568 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: it possible you could have wrapped the body because when 569 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 2: they found her body, Dave, she was actually in a blanket, 570 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: which is fascinating to me. Wow, Now I know people think, well, 571 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: Lord have mercy, after all these years, would there would 572 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: would there be thing left? Yeah? I was actually part 573 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: of an excavation when Tom of a Confederate soldier and 574 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: the Gull, on his deathbed, gave the confession that him 575 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: and his buddies had found it. Had I tell you 576 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: the story? Yeah, not a fare, Yeah, told uh. Found 577 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: found this Confederate soldier's body in nineteen sixty six with 578 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 2: a World War Two surplus metal detector. They were right 579 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 2: on the edge of the Chickamauga Battlefield in Georgia. And 580 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: he said, I didn't want to die with this on 581 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: my on my mind. And he said, we found the 582 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: remains and they said there were strips of cloth left 583 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 2: a wool gray uniform. They just picked it up and 584 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 2: shook it. Yeah. And now if y'all could see Dave's 585 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: face right now, did they not know? 586 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean did they? Did he say they didn't know 587 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: it was a body? 588 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 2: I mean no, hell yeah, they knew it was a 589 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: matter of fact. They collected the buttons of belt buckle. 590 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: What else did they find? A cartridge box? They didn't 591 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: find a weapon. They found like the equivalent of like 592 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 2: a mess kit. There was a spoon, wow? And what 593 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: else did they find? Anyway, we got called back out 594 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: because this guy was dying and he confessed it to 595 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: the sheriff's guy had a terminal illness. I went out 596 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 2: with the state forensic anthropologist. I'll never forget. It was 597 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: in Ringold, Georgia. We went up there and Dave, we 598 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 2: went right to the spot. 599 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: Wow. 600 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, my buddy, that's the anthropologist. Put put trial to 601 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 2: trial and brush to dirt, and within like three scoops 602 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 2: of earth and a couple of brushes, we found skull. 603 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 604 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 2: And it had an oak tree growing, a tiny little 605 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 2: oak tree growing up out of a bullet defect in 606 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 2: the back of the skull. With this, and he was young, 607 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: he was only about eighteen. His teeth were perfect. Found 608 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: one bit of clothing with him and it was a 609 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: whale bone underwear button and that's all we found. Wow, 610 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 2: And they had taken everything else. So you know, that 611 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: was a natural fiber that you know, you know, they 612 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: didn't have synthetics then. So if you think about a 613 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: blanket that you have around the house, Yeah, you can 614 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: have pure natural fiber blankets that are around, but let's 615 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: face that most of us don't. Most of us have 616 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 2: these synthetic things that are around. And so you wrap 617 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: a body in this and synthetics are pretty resilient, man. 618 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 2: They'll last for a protracted period of time. I would 619 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 2: imagine that even even in this state, there's a chance 620 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: that you could still make out patterns and colors. Maybe 621 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 2: colors I don't know, but maybe patterns that are left behind. 622 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 2: If you found a tag, it would probably be pretty 623 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: well worn. It all depends on how cocooned it was. Now, 624 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 2: if you're talking about a they set three by five. Now, 625 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: they didn't give us a cubic dimension here. 626 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: It was. 627 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: They just set three by five. It doesn't give us 628 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: an indication. If the hollowed out space with the depth 629 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 2: of the space is five feet long three feet wide, 630 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 2: what's the depth that you're talking about. How protected would 631 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 2: it have been, you know at that point time? And 632 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 2: you know in Beaumont, dude, let me tell you something. 633 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 2: Can you imagine how many times the surrounding area has flooded? 634 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: Just living in New Orleans, in South Louisiana a good 635 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 2: portion of my adult life. You could have a storm 636 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: that would roll in in and it'd be bone dry outside. 637 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 2: Storm comes in and all of a sudden, you're standing 638 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: in two feet of water. It's happened that quickly. I've 639 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: had my home flooded where I woke up passed that 640 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 2: on the sofa from working all night, woke up to 641 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 2: the sound of a lapping in my living room. Wow, 642 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: where the water was right adjacent to my face. So 643 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: that's another fascinating piece to this. You know what was 644 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: contained in the blanket, Well, apparently there was enough contained 645 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 2: in there to determine that this was in fact Kimberly's remains. 646 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: And once that confirmation had taken place, Dave correct me 647 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, But Rose Rose rolled over for on 648 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 2: this thing. 649 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, I say, yeah, but okay, he did. 650 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 3: But they were a week away from trial. The reason 651 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,479 Speaker 3: we're covering this now is the trial was getting ready 652 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 3: to happen when he finally, after twenty five years, admits, 653 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 3: you know to what has taken place. But even at sentencing, now, 654 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 3: the deal was a forty year prison sentence and he's 655 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 3: sixty eight years old. Now, okay, so it's a Erran 656 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: bl for the rest of your life. And when they 657 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: were trying to get him to you know, you still 658 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 3: have to allocate, you still have to say what happened, 659 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 3: which is one of the problems that a lot of 660 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 3: us have with coburger with him not being forced to 661 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 3: say what he did, how he did it. And I'm 662 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 3: still mad about that. And in this case, the judge, 663 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 3: Raquel west I was reading the transcript of what took 664 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 3: place and the question that they asked him, you know, 665 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 3: are you pleading guilty because you did what they charged 666 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 3: you with? And he says Terry Rose says sort of. 667 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 3: The judge says, no, we're not playing. Hold on, what 668 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 3: do you not understand, mister Rose? Well, most of it, 669 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 3: but that's okay. The judge says, no, it's not okay, 670 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 3: miss Rose. 671 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: This is not a game. 672 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 3: He says, I'm not playing a game. She says, well, 673 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 3: we're about to go to trial next week. Okay, she's 674 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 3: had her fill twenty five years. This guy got away 675 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 3: with murder and now he's playing games with the court. 676 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 3: But ultimately, yeah, he admitted it. You know that he 677 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 3: killed her the night that she came by. I mean, 678 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 3: she she wasn't ever missing, she was she always went 679 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 3: to Terry's house and to Terry Rose home, and he 680 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 3: killed her that night. 681 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 2: And that night yep. And so that's the thing about it, 682 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: and that did come out, and you know, that was 683 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 2: that was you know that was bone chilling in that 684 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: sense that that night that that fifteen year old daughter Tiffany, 685 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 2: she was looking for her Mama. She wanted to make 686 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: contact with her, this new man that she had in 687 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 2: her life. I can only imagine I would not presume 688 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,439 Speaker 2: to put myself in her shoes, but probably after having 689 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: seen what Mom had gone through with Rose thinking that maybe, 690 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: just maybe there was an outside chance that Mama would 691 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: come back walking through the door. It wasn't going to happen. 692 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 2: What she didn't realize at that point in Tom is 693 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 2: that very night that Mom didn't show up is actually 694 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 2: the night that she was brutally murdered. I'm Josephcott Morgan, 695 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: and this is Bodybags