WEBVTT - Things I Wish Would Die 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:10.360 The story I'm about to tell you is a cautionary tale. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.280 In October twenty four, I made an appearance on The 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.439 Tonight Show with Jay Leno to promote my book on 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.480 presidential paste about them Come out Here More Rocket lad. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.440 But it's not my appearance on the show that I regret. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:30.320 It's what happened next. After the taping, I went back 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.120 to my hotel in Universal City. I hadn't eaten dinner, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:39.879 and the hotel restaurant was offering a seafood buffet. I 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.400 can still see it now, a sort of banquet table 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.240 with tears of crab legs. I'm pretty sure there were 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:53.800 oysters and dominating the landscape, a mountain of shrimp, a 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:59.440 glistening pink pyramid. How could I resist? By the time 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.160 I was on that evening, that bounty of shrimp was 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.920 less of a pyramid and more of a mound. The 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.080 next morning, I flew back East, happy as a well clam, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:18.320 but somewhere over the Midwest I started experiencing turbulence and 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:24.240 inner turbulence. The choppiness subsided only after thirty six hours 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.080 in and out of bed, and I knew what was 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:33.440 to blame for my condition until that point in my life, 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.360 I was pro buffet, and I thought, I can't believe 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.760 that I did that. Everyone was exhaling on the shrimp, 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.319 and I don't want to eat other people's exhale. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.039 Right, But probably that came from bad shrimp, not a 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:47.960 human breath. 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.360 It could have been other shrimp's breath. It could have 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.160 been other shrimp's breath. I mean, let's talk about that. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.840 Everyone can name something they'd like to see vanished from 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.880 the earth. I'm guessing famine, disease, war top most lists. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.880 But what are the things just below those that you 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:13.400 wish would disappear me? I have at least three, one 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.400 of which made the list that very night in twenty 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:16.839 oh four. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.160 That kind of buffet, the sticky tongs and the you know, 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:22.760 you see somebody who just like dug around to the 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.080 back of the macaroni and cheese try to get like 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.079 the very best in the back, and then it's all 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.560 kind of growed it out, and it's, oh yeah. 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.640 The second thing on my list. Well, I've never complained 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.120 when an audience has applauded me like they did that 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:42.639 night on Leno, But there's a certain kind of intense, 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.560 exaggerated reaction that over the last few years has become 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:49.200 all but meaningless. 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.440 Standing ovations are a bit like an avalanche. Fun person 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.520 stands and then a few other people think, Oh, well, 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.400 I guess we're standing. 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.320 And please don't make me raise my voice to tell 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.519 you about the third thing on my list that really 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:05.760 works my nerves. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.400 It's a blight on any neighborhood. It's war without our permission. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:18.520 On this podcast, we've paid tribute to beloved entertainers and 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:24.120 courageous change makers, sitcom characters gone without a trace, even 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:29.280 iconic college campus trees, people and things that deserve to 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.200 live on in the collective memory. But today I want 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.200 to talk about three things that I really just wish 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:43.600 would die already from CBS Sunday Morning and iHeart. I'm 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:55.520 Morocca and this is mobituaries this moment things I wish 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:11.680 would die Buffets, standing, ovation, and noise. I was looking 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.719 at this video of a clan of hyenas feasting on 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.880 an elephant carcass, and I thought, is there something in 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.520 our nature that makes us want to gather around this 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.600 trough of food and just go for it? 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.600 Remind me not to go out to dinner with you? 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:28.919 Mo. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.320 But is there an animalistic nature to eating at a buffet? Probably, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.279 certainly at some of the buffets I saw there is that. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.800 That's Kim Severson. She's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.799 writes about food and culture for The New York Times. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.440 She's written about the unexpected comeback of the buffet. Let 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.440 me ask you, didn't we think the pandemic would kill buffets? 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.760 Absolutely, that is absolutely the surprise of the post pandemic era. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:01.799 I just thought they would never come back. 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.200 Buffets did get creamed early in the pandemic, but the 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.479 Golden Corral chain says their business shot back up twenty 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.640 percent between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.960 Maybe the fact that people had to be so distant 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.680 from their food and other people, they've overcompensated by really 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.520 going hardcore on the buffet. They're like, damn it, I 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.160 just want to get my prime rib and my all 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:27.919 you can eat crab. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:28.320 Oh. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.640 I'm sorry, I just don't want whooping cough with my 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:31.599 Waldorf salad. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:33.000 Okay. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.560 I can hear a lot of you saying what is 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.920 most problem with buffets? So let me be clear. What 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.479 makes me uneasy? Are the entirely self served buffets. They're 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.760 sometimes known as hot open food bars, where there is 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.640 no one standing between the food and the mob, no 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.240 food professionals on active duty. That irks me because, let's 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:01.000 face it, people myself included, revert to our natural state 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.000 when there's not a lady in a hairnet brandishing a 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.599 ladle and glaring at us to mind our manners. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.599 And some people actually take little tastes along the way 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.760 with their fingers. Oh they do. Oh, Oh, I'm so sorry. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:13.880 Do you need a minute? 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.480 This is the only interview where I've needed a spit bucket. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:18.560 I'm so sorry. 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.200 Am I being totally rational here? Of course I'm not. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.520 Plenty of full service restaurants, even very popular ones, have 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.760 food safety issues. But when I'm holding a pair of 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.159 sticky tongs that one hundred other strangers have touched and 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.559 looking at a bin of gloopy mystery meat, I start 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:46.960 imagining things. The look, that glistening look of congealed meat. 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.240 It's not about the taste or even the smell, but 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.560 it almost looks like what I imagine the La Brea 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:53.680 tar pits look like. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.359 And this it's really just sells for a steak, But 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.040 how do you know? You don't know. 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.840 Of course, buffets are probably as old as those tar pets. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:09.240 When in human history, to self serve buffets emerge. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:13.080 We have to imagine that there have always been occasions 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.320 in which a lot of food would be cooked and 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.200 put out and people would eat it. But I think 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.880 as a formal style of restaurant eating, we can go 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.800 to Sweden and the Smorgasboard. Sweden hosted the Olympics in 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.440 nineteen twelve, and everybody was so thrilled that they had 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.640 this thing called Smorgasboard that you could just go and 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:32.720 help yourself. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.960 Now, the Smorgas board wasn't for pegging out originally for 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.440 the upper classes. It was more of a refined spread, 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:46.280 typically composed of cheeses, cured meats, fish like herring, flatbreads, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.080 and sweets. You might remember us mentioning this Smorgas board 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.360 earlier this season, in the Jim Thorpe episode he triumphed 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.040 at those nineteen twelve games. You might also remember the 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:06.160 Smorgas board from the Buppet show More Bizergh. They're going 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.280 to get that Swedish chef someday. Who is the Smorgasboard 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:16.080 of Hell? Anyway, the smorgasboard made a splash on American shores. 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.800 At the nineteen thirty nine World's Fair in New York City. 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:26.600 Visitors were reportedly spellbound by the vast rotating table festooned 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.240 with Swedish delicacies. It was basically a giant lazy Susan. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.520 And who doesn't love a lazy Susan? But how did 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.880 that evolve into the buffet as we know it today, Well, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:39.960 it takes rout as this will not come as a 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.840 surprise to people. But in Las Vegas in the forties 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.000 and there was this idea that somehow we've got to 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.560 keep people inside the casino. The story goes that a 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.240 man named Herb McDonald, the publicist for the l Rancho 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.600 Vegas casino, was working late one night when he began 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.120 feeling peckish. He grabbed some che es and cold cuts 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:02.960 from the kitchen and laid them out on the bar 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:07.040 to make a sandwich. When some hungry gamblers asked to partake, 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.240 Herb had an idea, and in nineteen forty six he 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.240 debuted his Bukaroo buffet and all you can eat buffet 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:16.600 for one dollar. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.040 This idea that you could keep gamblers in your casino 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.080 started off with just some sandwiches, and then it became 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.600 all you can eat and everything you want and you 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.640 never have to leave the casino. And they were very cheap. 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.560 They were lost leaders and remained lost leaders in Vegas 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.760 for a long time until the celebrity chef era happened. 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.239 By the nineteen eighties, buffets had spread across the country. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.439 They were featured on cruise ships and in fast food 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.079 chains like Pizza Hut. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.920 So if you want the whole hut and. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:54.479 Nothing but you know what to do. Fine dining restaurants 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.160 embraced them. My first fancy buffet was at a hotel 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:02.160 on Easter Sunday Fay. It turned out was a manifestation 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:03.760 of American values. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:09.240 Americans love excess, right, we love big things. We love choice, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.400 and the buffets are the perfect example of that. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:11.640 Right. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.680 You mentioned choice, and I want to play a piece 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.640 of a promotional video for Sizzler that was produced in 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:18.760 nineteen ninety one. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:24.760 All across America, the song three Rings. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.600 The song is growing stronger every day. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.000 So this video is about five minutes long. It's heavy 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:38.720 on Americana. There's a smiling construction worker, a little girl 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.959 swinging a baseball bat, a golden retriever catching a frisbee. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.440 It feels like a campaign ad. Sizzler brings the choices 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:54.120 that you've been looking for, giving you the right to choose. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.800 We're offering much more. And then the requisite key change 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:07.800 as the jingles swells into a Sizzler an amney. There 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:12.160 are golden, huge shots of couples and families dining. They 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.199 aren't simply happy, they're in ecstasy. Some of them might 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:21.080 actually be on ecstasy. A woman is maniacally licking her lips. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.360 A couple begins making out at the Sissler. That's what 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.840 the freedom and choice of a buffet will do to you. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.600 Unbelievable. How fabulous is that? 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:44.520 I keep thinking, like, oh my god, did I remember 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.959 to register to vote? Like it feels very It's right, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.120 it's don't stop believing. But a buffet commercial. You know, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.920 the video may be over the top, but Kim points 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.480 out that the buffet restaurant really is more than just 0:11:58.520 --> 0:11:59.360 a place to eat. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.880 I love them and I also can't stand them at 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.440 the same time. But the buffet became such a piece 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.080 of cultural currency for kids, and they can still remember 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.040 when their families were going to celebrate something, they would 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.120 all go to the hometown buffet because you could feel 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.520 celebratory and it wasn't going to cost a lot of money. 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.000 And also for kids who were second generation, their parents 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.160 were immigrants, the buffet became kind of a roadmap for 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.400 how to eat in America. And I think for those 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.720 parents it was like, Okay, we're going to go learn 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.640 to eat whatever the American food is. Here a good 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.720 friend of mine whose parents came from Taiwana and she 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.280 was raised in Ohio by these first gen immigrants. The 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.040 day they all got their green cards, they went to 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:40.240 the buffet to celebrate. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.679 Now I appreciate all of this, unless you, the listener, 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.880 think I'm a killjoy or curmudgeon. I want to make 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.720 one point very clear. I want to draw a distinction 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:57.400 between cafeterias and buffets. I am very pro cafeteria. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.800 Really, Okay, okay, what's the difference to you? Then? 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:06.760 A cafeteria to me, is where you have someone policing 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.319 the situation. So I loved growing up there was I 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.920 grew up in the Washington, DC area, there was something 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.240 called hot Shops cafeteria, and at hot Shops we cook 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.160 our chickens. So They're always tendered, juicy and delicious, and 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.559 I have fond memories of grabbing my tray feeling so empowered, 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.760 going along the line, the carving station with the side 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:34.440 of roast beef, the individually plated slices of lemon meringue pie. 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.600 I felt safe, and I felt secure because there were 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.680 people with plastic gloves and hairnets on the other side, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.640 and even if I could grab something on my own, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.200 I knew that there was a watchful eye. And I 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:53.080 feel like the buffet, on the other hand, is small 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.520 de democracy brought to its extreme. I'm not saying that 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.520 I want a cafeteria police state. I'm not saying that. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.959 I think the key to it with the cafeterias that 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.560 everything was individually played. That's why I really respond to that. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.840 And there's a cleanliness factor for sure. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:16.119 I'm sorry, I just don't want tuberculosis with my chicken tetrazini. Ultimately, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.480 I'm grateful to live at a time and in a 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:23.440 country with buffets and cafeterias, because no one wants to 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.720 be told what they can and can't eat. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.360 You're a perfect example of that in a way. Right 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.200 you know what you want and what you don't want, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:32.920 and what you will eat and what you won't. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.400 Eat, And well, I know one thing I don't want, 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.120 heppatitis with my hash Browns. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.360 I think that's fair. I think that's fair. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.400 A final word. The producer of this episode tells me 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.160 she now has serious second thoughts about eating at her workplaces. 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.600 Open food bar. You're welcome, Liz. On the other side 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:53.440 of the break. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:15:19.560 Whoo whoo, sing the trolley song again, Yes, queen, Yes. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.800 Do you remember your first standing ovation? I'll never forget 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.240 my first standing ovation. This is my friend Eric Meir. 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.520 You might remember him from our episode on Fanny Brice. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.480 Eric's a culture critic with the Hudson Review, and he's 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.440 back to talk about the second thing I wish would die, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.400 the obligatory standing ovation. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.680 It was e Liza Minellian concert at the Airy Crown 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:39.560 Theater in Chicago around nineteen eighty. I was a teenager 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.000 who had seen the movie Cabaret about six times, and 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.520 at the end of the concert, everybody stood, and I 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.680 thought to myself, oh my god, she was so amazing 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.400 that she literally forced people onto their feet, as if 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.400 she levitated them out of their seats. I had never 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:03.000 seen something like that before. 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.440 Okay, first of all, it's a parent that you were 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.840 exactly the right person to bring in here to talk 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.320 about this, because you have this memory from over forty 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.960 years ago. So what was motivating you to stand up? 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.320 Was it her performance or everybody else standing? 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.640 It was everybody else standing because I didn't know that 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.840 was a thing that you could do at the time. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.360 But I hadn't seen a lot of theater other than 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.600 community theater and that kind of thing, and no one 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.160 stood at the stagecoach players. But back in the seventies, 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.920 people didn't really stand, even if they loved the show. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.640 There were exceptions, but it required a certain kind of 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.880 performance and a certain kind of performer to get people 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:44.520 on their feet. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.080 That, of course, is now all changed. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.400 It certainly has changed. Today. A standing ovation at the 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.760 end of a theatrical performance or at an awards show 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.400 has become almost routine. It wasn't so long ago that 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.240 a standing ovation was extraordinary. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.080 And let it be said that number eight cal Ripkin 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.800 Junior has reached the unreachable Star. 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.399 The unreachable Star is a reference to the impossible dream 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.240 from the musical Man of La Mancha. But this standing 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.719 ovation in nineteen eighty five wasn't in a theater. It 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:26.119 was in a ballpark. For Baltimore Orioles player Cal Ripkin Junior. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.639 He'd just broken Lou Garrigg's record for playing the most 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.359 consecutive Major League Baseball games ever two thousand, one hundred 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:42.840 and thirty one to be exact. I remember when this happened, 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.240 and trust me, you don't have to be a baseball 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.320 fan to watch tape of this and be moved by 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.960 the show of respect and admiration for a man who'd 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:57.360 shown such devotion to his livelihood. The ovation was completely organic, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.080 and at twenty two minutes yep, twenty two minutes, it 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.639 was the longest known standing ovation in American public life. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.120 Contrast this with a standing ovation a decade later that 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:21.720 matched the twenty two minute Rippken record. In twenty oh six, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.760 the audience at the can Film Festival in France applauded 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.959 for about that long after a screening of the movie 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:34.520 Pans Labyrinth, but the director, Guillermo del Toro seemed less 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.400 flattered and more confused by the reaction. 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.040 It lasted long enough that I didn't know what to do. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.720 This standing ovation, like so many, it can felt unfelt. 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.080 So I think what happened to Ken is something that 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.200 also we could maybe say has happened in the theater, 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.280 and that is that there's a certain aspect of standing 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:02.000 ovations that are performative, where the audience wants to prove 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:06.000 to everyone around them that they are appreciating what's happening 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.680 and are sort of part of the experience. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.320 No doubt, audiences of the past would be mystified by 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.520 audiences of today, and vice versa. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.040 We would probably look at audience behavior one hundred and 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.760 fifty or two hundred years ago, let alone five hundred 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.560 or two thousand years ago, and not recognize what was 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:27.440 being done. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.320 There's so much we don't know about. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:33.520 Greek theater, but we get a sense from contemporary descriptions 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.879 that there was an intense identification between the audience and 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.760 what was happening on stage. So there would be a 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:44.320 lot of sort of expressive reaction, crying, wailing, shouting and 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.880 so forth. Wailing and shouting, right, you know, because these 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.160 were very tragic stories often being told or else riots 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.760 laughter at the comedies. But we don't have any sense 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.200 of whether people stood at the end or not. There's 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:01.440 no document of that kind of thing. Remember, in Shakespeare's time, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.119 most of the audience stood for the entire performance, so 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:05.960 a standing ovation would have been redundant. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.719 Goodness God, it's sort of crazy that I think. I mean, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.679 I know it would have been redundant. But you know 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.960 that Julius Caesar didn't get a standing ovation, and the 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.080 Gloria Estefan musical On your Feet got a standing ovation, which, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:18.679 by the way, I liked, I actually really liked it. 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:20.760 Do you think they by the way, do you think 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.119 they titled it on your Feet to get people on their. 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.719 Eata and sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.600 It wasn't until the eighteenth century that audiences began even 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.320 clapping in a theater. Around this time, in Italy, opera 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:40.080 fans probably began standing for exceptional performances. Theater historians tend 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.560 to agree that the standing ovation emerged in its current 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.000 form on Broadway in the years after World War Two. 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.879 So what happens in the nineteen sixties, and I have 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.440 to reference our friend Ethan Warden here, who has written 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.680 about this quite a bit. There's a new phenomenon of 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.640 what we might call the big Lady shows, where musicals 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:06.960 in particular are built around specific star performers, and the 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.600 early examples of that are, of course shows like Hello 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:15.919 Dolly or Mame, where we see a phenomenon of people 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.399 buying tickets because you have to see Carl Channing and 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:29.399 Hello Dolly, or you have to see Angela Lansbury in Maine. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.320 In the years before these big Lady shows, the curtain 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.040 call that's when performers take their bows was short and 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:39.200 to the point. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.560 Up through the nineteen fifties, even shows like My Fair 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.840 Lady that were massive hits, there's about two and a 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.480 half minutes of curtain call music, which means that everybody 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.000 came on the leads, took a few solo bows, and 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:53.679 everybody got off pretty quickly. 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.520 There's not enough time to stand up for Julie Andrews 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:00.800 and Richard Burton and Robert Gulay and correct Camelot exactly. 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.800 But by the time you get to Hello Dolly, there's 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.159 a fully staged curtain call. And this is something that 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.000 the director, GOWERT. Champion, really wanted to do. It's not 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:25.960 just everybody's shuffle on, bow bow, bow, shuffle off. It's 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:31.520 a choreographed curtain call with music that is deliberately written 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.520 to build the tension up until the moment that Caryl 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.760 Channing comes down those stairs one more time for that 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:40.760 final bow. 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.840 Producers began doing what they could to guarantee a standing ovation. 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.639 And I actually know this because we have a mutual friend, Bart, 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.320 who was hired straight out of college by the producers 0:22:55.480 --> 0:23:00.080 of the Hello Dolly revival in nineteen ninety five with 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.359 Carol Channing, with Carol Channing her final Dolly performances, to 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.679 sit in the second row at every single performance and 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.280 start the standing ovation. 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:10.720 At the end. 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:12.120 So he was a plant. 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:12.959 He was a plant. 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:18.080 He stood, and then it becomes a cascading phenomenon, which 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.359 standing ovations are a bit like an avalanche quicksidebar. 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.399 Along with ovation inflation has come a new way of 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:31.919 vocalizing appreciation for a performance. No more Bravo or encore. Now, 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.720 no matter what kind of show you're seeing, you're likely 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:36.240 to hear woo. 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.600 The WU is a fairly recent phenomenon. 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:44.280 And it's horrible. I mean, it is just awful, the 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.680 WU phenomenon. It's a scourge. 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.720 I think the woof phenomenon is something that comes from 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:54.800 audiences who attend as much pop music as they do 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.760 theater these days, and they've brought that sensibility into the theater. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.199 Not long ago, Eric went to a performance of a 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:06.920 small chamber musical serious in tone, and still. 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:10.280 There was a significant portion of the audience and I'm 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.520 gonna stereotype them as being people under the age of 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:19.320 thirty who were wooing or even saying yes in the 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.919 middle of the numbers, being performed like a yazz queen 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.439 kind of thing, Right, yeah, or you know, saying it 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.600 that kind of thing. You're kidding me, right, And let 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:34.320 me clarify that I in no way endorse wooing during 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:39.400 the performance of the song after the singer has finished. 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:44.560 Wooing is acceptable to me. But wooing a high note 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:46.719 to the middle of the song, I do find obnoxious. 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.200 A wooing a high note. That's horrendous to do that. Now, 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:55.879 let's venture beyond theater on television. The Oscars are handy 0:24:55.920 --> 0:25:01.000 barometer of how commonplace standing ovations have become. I still 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:05.760 remember the nineteen eighty five Oscars telecast when Jack Lemon 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:10.359 introduced Lord Lawrence Olivier to present the Best Picture winner. 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:15.280 Olivier wasn't receiving an award, but his very presence brought 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:19.840 the crowd to its feet. Olivier himself was overcome and 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:21.680 forgot to name the nominees. 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:24.560