WEBVTT - How to Disagree with Jessica Tarlov

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the holiday season, Okay, I tried everyone, and with that,

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<v Speaker 1>many of us are gearing up to sit around tables

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<v Speaker 1>with people we don't necessarily see eye to eye with. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's something Jessica Tarlove does every single week. If you

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<v Speaker 1>don't know Jessica, she is the co host of The

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<v Speaker 1>Five on Fox News, where she's the lone liberal voice

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<v Speaker 1>among a panel of conservatives. She's built a reputation as

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<v Speaker 1>someone who can stand her ground and convey her points

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<v Speaker 1>without stooping to personal attacks and invect it. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to know, as do a lot of people, how the

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<v Speaker 1>heck does she do it? What is the secret to

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<v Speaker 1>keeping her cool, rationally stating her position and keeping things

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<v Speaker 1>well civil. Let's face it, we could all use a

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<v Speaker 1>little help in that department, especially as the holidays approached.

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<v Speaker 1>So get your pencils ready and take notes. Here's my

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<v Speaker 1>conversation with Jessica tar Love. Hi Jessica, Hi, so nice

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<v Speaker 1>to meet you met Katie have we never met before?

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<v Speaker 2>We met once at can Lyons at pTau like five

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. Oh my god, but like many cocktails do you?

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<v Speaker 2>And it was just like a fan girling where I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, Katie Kurk's here, so funny, so loosely we met.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, now I'm very excited that Jessica tar Love is here.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess one of the first questions I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you and then we'll talk about all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of things. Jessica is something that a lot of my

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<v Speaker 1>social media followers asked, and that was how do you

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<v Speaker 1>do it? How do you sit with four very conservative people?

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<v Speaker 1>Not every night? I guess you alternate with Harold Ford? Right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but how do you do that? It's a a man

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<v Speaker 1>job to several times a week and keep your cool,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think it's miraculous. I've watched you a few times.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a regular viewer of the Five.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm guess you are, though we have twenty two percent Democrats.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, no, and I do like I like Dana

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<v Speaker 1>and I know Judge Janine from my previous life on

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<v Speaker 1>the Today Show. I don't really know Jesse or Greg Guttfeld.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a fascinating, fascinating thing in and of itself. His

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<v Speaker 1>Late night show. We sometimes watch because we're fascinated by it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you're not alone in watching it and being

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<v Speaker 2>fascinated by it. He definitely filled a void in the

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<v Speaker 2>late time space, late night space, I should say, where

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<v Speaker 2>people didn't want to see five of the same guy

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<v Speaker 2>making the same jokes. Right, and he invites on a

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<v Speaker 2>wide range of people to be there, right, and people

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<v Speaker 2>are culty about it. I mean, he not just the ratings,

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<v Speaker 2>but how well he performs in the demo astounding. So

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<v Speaker 2>there are young people doing this, and then you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the election results and you say, well, this makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like thirty somethings that are into this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, getting back to you, tell me how you

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<v Speaker 1>go on when you go on, and how you brace

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<v Speaker 1>yourself to be honestly a lone voice for sort of

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<v Speaker 1>the democratic point of view on that show.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, I will say, And I think it is

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<v Speaker 2>important contextually because a lot of people who watch the

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<v Speaker 2>show or see clips of me flying around, which is

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<v Speaker 2>how most people with my politics at least experience, They're like,

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<v Speaker 2>you mean, this is a whole hour because I thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was a three minute and fifteen second show, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>not at all. It goes the whole hour. I've been

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<v Speaker 2>at Fox my entire media career, so I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>anything different than being odd woman out, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's prepared me for those more difficult conversations. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the five And I think why it

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<v Speaker 2>resonates with viewers is it's pretty light. Right, it's five o'clock.

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<v Speaker 2>You're supposed to be like hanging out. It's after work

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<v Speaker 2>for you know, whever, it's dinner time for some of

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<v Speaker 2>our older viewers, right, you're.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, they're having the Early Word special. Now it's

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<v Speaker 1>chic everywhere, and now people are maybe fixing dinner sticking rights.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not supposed to be upsetting, right, It's not

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to be something. And so much of political commentary

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<v Speaker 2>right now and just discourse is harmful to your mental

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<v Speaker 2>well being and enraging, enraging, and it's not supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>do that. You're supposed to pay attention. And we obviously

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<v Speaker 2>the first half of the show where we do most

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<v Speaker 2>of the red meat political conversation, there are moments that

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<v Speaker 2>people get amped up especially when you really care about things.

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<v Speaker 2>And like you said, they are very passionate players that

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<v Speaker 2>are part of this ensemble. But we are trying and

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<v Speaker 2>seem to have effectively replicated what a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>know in their real lives, where they have, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a Thanksgiving table that might be predominantly conservative, but like

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<v Speaker 2>Aunt Jessica is invited and like she's really pissed that

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<v Speaker 2>Kamala lost or whatever, and there are moments of agreement

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<v Speaker 2>right where we all kind of come together and say, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't seem right right, we can all be on

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<v Speaker 2>the same side of this. So, having been at Fox

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<v Speaker 2>my whole career, I think it's just more inherently normal

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<v Speaker 2>to me to be in those kinds of moments.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, actually that brings me to my obvious follow up

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<v Speaker 1>is why have you been at Fox your entire career,

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<v Speaker 1>Jessica and what attracted you to that format as somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who whose ideology doesn't know necessarily mesh with most the

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<v Speaker 1>vast majority of people there. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So my background is in political polling. I have a

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<v Speaker 2>PhD in government. I came back to I did my

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<v Speaker 2>PhD at LC in London, came home and I went

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<v Speaker 2>to work for Doug Shown, who was Bill Clinton's polster, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and Doug was and he went to bar I went

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<v Speaker 2>to Renmark. Yeah, seven Sisters Forever that.

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<v Speaker 1>My sisters both went to Smith and I got rejected.

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<v Speaker 1>Jessica rejected. Not even waitless jokes on that that is

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<v Speaker 1>another podcast for another time, but go on.

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<v Speaker 2>I was it's starting that I have young kids. But

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<v Speaker 2>I have some friends who have kids that are thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about heading into high school, and well they're not thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about it. They were going to go and they're thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about what high schools to go to. And I went

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<v Speaker 2>to Dalton here in New York City for just high

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<v Speaker 2>school and very prestigious, really hard to get into. And

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<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, how did you make that choice? And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, little secret, I applied to thirteen schools out

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<v Speaker 2>of eighth grade and only got into Dalton. So I

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<v Speaker 2>feel you. The other us are like, we're not.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel validated. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Jessica Smith should feel bad.

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<v Speaker 1>I love Smith though, yeah, my sisters did too, and

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<v Speaker 1>one was five Beta Capain. They apparently loved sisters, so

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<v Speaker 1>I was really kind of bummed when they are there's

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<v Speaker 1>no backstory, No, I think it was I wasn't as

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<v Speaker 1>good a student as my sisters. But anyway, go on,

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<v Speaker 1>you went to Fox.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Doug was a contributor at Fox basically since

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<v Speaker 2>he got out of the Clinton administration, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>as I continued to grow working for him and learning

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<v Speaker 2>how to do polling and delving more into the research side,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm fundamentally a researcher. He said, I think it

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<v Speaker 2>would be really good for you to build your media skills.

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<v Speaker 2>And because he had connections to Fox, he introduced me

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<v Speaker 2>to Bookers and I started coming on.

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<v Speaker 1>But first your grandparents had met him at the Harmony

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<v Speaker 1>Club and basically.

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<v Speaker 2>Tila's all this time the Harmony Club, which is like

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<v Speaker 2>a very obnoxious, predominantly Jewish on the Upper East Side.

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<v Speaker 2>I was finishing my PhD, and my grandmother, like an

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<v Speaker 2>overbearing Jewish grandmother, like went up to him, probably while

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<v Speaker 2>he was at the buffet or something, and said, I

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<v Speaker 2>have a really smart granddaughter. And he's like, I've heard

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<v Speaker 2>that before. And he's like she's like, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>she's really smart. Give her a chance, and he did,

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<v Speaker 2>which is how I started working for him.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's your grandmother, right, you owe a lot to her.

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<v Speaker 1>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>She's another podcast about the deeply complicated history of Malvina Roberts.

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<v Speaker 2>But she got me where I was going and I

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<v Speaker 2>will always be thankful for that. But then it just

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<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly was a good fit. I'm a proud establishment Democrat,

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<v Speaker 2>very moderate by the party standards, you know, Nancy Pelosi,

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<v Speaker 2>Hillary Clinton type of Democrat, not more AOC Bernie Sanders mold.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that that works better with the bipartisan conversation,

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<v Speaker 2>because I mean, if you want to have a food fight,

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<v Speaker 2>and you remember what cable news was like around once

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<v Speaker 2>Trump announced, and like every night on CNN, it was

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<v Speaker 2>like Anna Navarro losing her mind, right, and Kaylee mcanenney

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<v Speaker 2>was on in those days, and Anderson Cooper is just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of sitting in the middle petrified, right like that

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<v Speaker 2>that's what it was like. But you could have a

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<v Speaker 2>more thoughtful conversation. And I found myself being able to

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<v Speaker 2>do that more or less. And it always is embedded,

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<v Speaker 2>at least for me, coming from a place of understanding

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm talking to people who generally come by their

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<v Speaker 2>beliefs honestly, and I think that too many people suppose

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<v Speaker 2>that folks who they don't agree with don't actually believe

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<v Speaker 2>the things that they're saying, but most of the time

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<v Speaker 2>they do, and a lot of that is due to

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<v Speaker 2>circumstances how they grow up. Like I grew up here

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<v Speaker 2>in New York City, I have had a charmed life.

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<v Speaker 2>I know where my liberal politics come from and what

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<v Speaker 2>my lived experience has been, and going to work at

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<v Speaker 2>a place like Fox, I now have people in my

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<v Speaker 2>orbit who have a completely different set of backgrounds, who

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<v Speaker 2>when they talk about how they feel about the Second

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<v Speaker 2>Amendment that comes from a place of growing up with

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<v Speaker 2>guns and having hunters in their families, or when they

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<v Speaker 2>talk about, you know, probably the toughest issue that I

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<v Speaker 2>ever have to discuss on air being pro life or

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<v Speaker 2>bringing pro choice, especially in the wake of the Dobbs decision,

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of people's beliefs on that is rooted

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<v Speaker 2>in their religiosity. Where I look at it as a

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<v Speaker 2>policy issue and a scientific issue, and they're telling.

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<v Speaker 1>Me about so a personal liberty issue, all of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Things that we think about it versus this is what

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<v Speaker 2>I was taught in Sunday School, This is what I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I grew up in mesh in an environment

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<v Speaker 2>that feels really differently to that, so that has been enlightening.

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<v Speaker 2>But basically it was a good fit and Fox hired

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<v Speaker 2>me right after the twenty sixteen election, and so that

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<v Speaker 2>is just where I've been in and they've allowed me

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<v Speaker 2>to grow. Susanne Scott, who's the CEO of Fox, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she promoted me eight months pregnant to get the hosting

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<v Speaker 2>job on the five, which is massive. And you know

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<v Speaker 2>what it's like, you're completely freaking out when you're with child,

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<v Speaker 2>let alone publicly with child like that, and will your

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<v Speaker 2>job be there for you? And They've been extremely nurturing

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<v Speaker 2>to me. And I think also putting such an outspoken

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<v Speaker 2>democrat on, I mean, we've been the top show in

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<v Speaker 2>cable news for years now, I think says something about

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of conversation that they want going on on

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<v Speaker 2>their airwaves. So yes, ah, it's still four on one

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<v Speaker 2>or three on one. Dana Prino is well, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Was I was going to say, it's it's that is

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<v Speaker 1>a real anomaly though in the Fox lineup. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>let's be honest, you say that's the kind of show

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<v Speaker 1>and the conversations they want on their air but they

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<v Speaker 1>are really few and far between are they not, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>It's different there. A panel show is different than as

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<v Speaker 2>host show, right, but even the guests and even sort

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<v Speaker 2>of the no one's going to pretend that it's not

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<v Speaker 2>right leaning, especially in prime time. I think you could

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<v Speaker 2>have conversations about what Neil Cavuto does on his show,

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<v Speaker 2>what Brett Bair does on a show, what Shannon Breem

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<v Speaker 2>does on Fox News Sunday and Chris Wallace before her,

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<v Speaker 2>and know that some of the most productive conversations with

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<v Speaker 2>Democrats have actually occurred on those shows, and that actually,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like Brett, for instance, on Special Report has

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<v Speaker 2>a segment called common Ground where he has on a

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<v Speaker 2>dem and a Republican and the most liberal senators are

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<v Speaker 2>dying again like Elizabeth Warren would want to come on

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<v Speaker 2>Fox to be able to do that. So there are

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.760
<v Speaker 2>moments where I think actually the fact that it is

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.760
<v Speaker 2>conservative leaning, you know, writ large, not necessarily those newscasters,

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.839
<v Speaker 2>creates an environment that Democrats know that they want to

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.719
<v Speaker 2>be a part of that. Because also a we have

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the numbers like if you're watching cable news, you're watching

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Fox most likely, and especially if you look at a

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 2>post election where MSNBC and Sana has dropped off, and.

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.199
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think that they have just imploded.

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I think it's two parted. I think when you lose,

0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>you received right and you go into a hole. I mean,

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I have tons of liberal friends that are like, I

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 2>just don't want to see the news right now, you know,

0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.720
<v Speaker 2>like wake me up once he's inaugurated or something big happened.

0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 2>That's impossible. But you know, I don't know what Trump

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 2>two point zero actually looks like. But everyone I think

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 2>will get amped up again if they're you know, if

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.719
<v Speaker 2>the deportation force starts, Joe and Mika's audience is coming back,

0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.319
<v Speaker 2>right like, they will want to be part of that.

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.960
<v Speaker 2>But I think there's fatigue and I think there's a feeling.

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.520
<v Speaker 2>And I get this from a lot of people that

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I know in my orbit who kind of tune out

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 2>more conservative leaning media and really are part of the

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 2>liberal bubble that they weren't not told an honest story

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 2>about what was going on in this election, like poo

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 2>pooing polls and interviews with people who you wouldn't expect

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 2>to be leaning towards Trump or considering Trump, and being

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.440
<v Speaker 2>fed a narrative that was not reflective of what happened

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.200
<v Speaker 2>on November fifth, and I think it's really important as

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 2>a media person to have an honest relationship with your viewers.

0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I try to do it like I, you know, beating

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 2>that drum. I wanted people to know Joe Biden has

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 2>a ton of accomplishments and that he should be really

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 2>proud of and that when he stands there and he

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>talks about the good things that he's done for the country,

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that that's an important element of this. But at the

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 2>same time to also say, this is a jump ball, right,

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>there's a tiny polling error in either direction, you're going

0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.120
<v Speaker 2>to have this result. And Nate Silver, who took a

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of flak for this, you know, in his model,

0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 2>the number one most likely outcome was what we saw

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that Trump gets all seven battlegrounds, and then just below it,

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>do just a few percentage points, was that Kamala gets

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 2>all seven battlegrounds.

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 2>This was a run of the mill result. And I

0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>think that people who have been on a steady dip

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>of left leaning media have a sense of betrayal in

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>all of this because they were told he's hitler. You know,

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 2>he's an authoritarian, We're going to get all of these

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Republicans that you know, supported Nikki Haley in the primary,

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 2>but without really you know, getting into the fact that

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>most people do go home right when you look at

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 2>a full policy platform. It's very hard. I think of

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 2>it in contrast, like what would it take for me

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 2>to vote for a Republican? It take a lot.

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess the question is Donald Trump is claiming

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>a mandate, and as the ulster that I know that

0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 1>the numbers just don't add up to a so called mandate.

0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 1>What do your focks colleagues say when he repeatedly insists

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>that he has been given carte blanche to do whatever

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 1>he wants.

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 2>They think it's Listen, it's a problem with the electoral

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 2>college in the way that elections work in this country.

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 2>But it is a rarity that a Republican wins the

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 2>popular vote, right, you know, And he did do that

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 2>by a tiny amount. I think it's like one point

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 2>five percent now and it'll be I mean, it's certainly

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the lowest performance since two thousand, but I think historically speaking,

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 2>it's like the combined with the electoral college and the

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>popular vote, like the third worst performance for a winning president.

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 2>That's not that exciting. Right, we're not talking about what

0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Obama did or like a Reigan I was to say

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>that president happened, right, Yeah, but it just in recent

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>memory for people who are handicapping this, But yeah, they

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 2>do feel like he has a mandate, he has the trifecta,

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 2>he has control of everything. But you know, if if

0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.640
<v Speaker 2>it was such a commanding win for the Trump agenda,

0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the cotails would have been larger, and Democrats I think

0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>did really well in the Senate. I was sad to

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 2>see Bob Casey lose his race in Pennsylvania and a

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 2>little bit surprised by it, but you know, holding on

0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 2>in Nevada, winning Arizona, Tammy bald went in Wisconsin, Elisa

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Slockkin winning in Michigan, and on top of it, for

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 2>these candidates to have figured out a way to manage

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 2>the you know, I'll work with Donald Trump when I

0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 2>need to. Tammy balbinz aarreed releasing ads. I was like,

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 2>this is what I did with Donald Trump when he

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 2>was in office. We can do that again. So I

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 2>always pushed back on it and not to diminish what

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 2>he pulled off because I think it is a dramatic feed,

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.560
<v Speaker 2>especially because he took all these gen Z voters that

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't expect would go over in those kinds of numbers.

0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.199
<v Speaker 2>But I don't feel like he has some massive mandate.

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>And you know, Speaker Johnson is going to have to

0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 2>talk to him about the hard truths. He has a

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 2>one seat majority. What are you supposed to.

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:56.080
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0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.399
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0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:33.800
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0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.600
<v Speaker 1>to ask you about the fact that some left leaning

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 1>media talked about, you know, described him as hitler with Honestly, JD.

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Vance did the same before he had an epiphany and

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.160
<v Speaker 1>became a big fan of Donald Trump's and talked about

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 1>his authoritarian tendencies. And you were saying that as if

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 1>you were dismissing those claims. But I'm curious if you

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 1>do think Donald Trump has a authoritarian tendencies and were

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.200
<v Speaker 1>people right to point that out.

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think your strongest defense is always using the

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.200
<v Speaker 2>words of people who knew him. And so when you

0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>have quotes from Mark Milly and John Kelly talking about this,

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.880
<v Speaker 2>you amplify them. And I did on the five as well.

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.399
<v Speaker 2>I read them, I write, I take copious notes, I

0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of prep. I read them out loud.

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>I said, this isn't about me. But the reason that

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe you read what I was saying as

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 2>being dismissive, is that that argument only tells part of

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the story of how people see Donald Trump, and that

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.200
<v Speaker 2>this came down to an incumbency election and an inflation election,

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.520
<v Speaker 2>which happened all over the world, and all the incumbents

0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 2>got thrown out right, and that people were thinking about

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 2>their grocery costs and we're not following the trend line

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.440
<v Speaker 2>as closely as we are. Right. They weren't, like you know,

0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Steve Rattner up there with all of his charts to say,

0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.479
<v Speaker 2>which I love. I live off of it. I mean,

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I use all of this for my own data collection.

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>But they weren't tracking it like that. They just have

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.200
<v Speaker 2>a memory of the past few years, not feeling that good.

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>They don't care if they bridge they're driving over to

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 1>get to the Kroger was the result of the infrastructure bill.

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 1>While they don't know is their groceries or thirty percent

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>higher than they were or.

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.640
<v Speaker 2>They know both of those things, and you have to pick.

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.480
<v Speaker 2>And for a lot of people this felt like a

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:32.440
<v Speaker 2>political sophie's choice for them, they didn't like either. Whether

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.520
<v Speaker 2>if Kamala had had more time they would have felt

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.679
<v Speaker 2>more comfortable with her. I think she ran a very

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 2>good campaign for getting one hundred and seven days. I

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>was not someone that thought a year in advance that

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Biden should have gotten out, But in retrospect, I think

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 2>that's probably the case that we should have had a primary,

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>and that there is a good chance that Kamala Harris

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:53.919
<v Speaker 2>would have won that primary and she would have been

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.840
<v Speaker 2>able to talk about her experience as vice president and

0:20:58.119 --> 0:20:58.679
<v Speaker 2>gone ahead.

0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 1>But they had so much working against them, not only inflation,

0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 1>but they have the border crisis, and she never really

0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.640
<v Speaker 1>could come up with a good explanation. No, And I've

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.199
<v Speaker 1>said for the fact, which I think is honestly very legitimate, Jessica,

0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>that there was a comprehensive immigration bill that took what

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.720
<v Speaker 1>eight months for very conservative Republicans.

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>And Democrats Hamward and it's not an OLM Barter's guy.

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Donald Trump said do not vote on this

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.880
<v Speaker 1>bill because he wanted to use it as a part

0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>of his campaign strategy.

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 2>I think Donald Trump sucks, Like I totally agree with you.

0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 1>But why didn't say he sucks. I just said he

0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.399
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't let them vote on the border. No.

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.720
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I'm saying he sucks. I believe that. I

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:45.840
<v Speaker 2>think he's manipulative, he's underhanded, he's completely self interested. I

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 2>worry he will run the country exactly in that vein,

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.399
<v Speaker 2>and I'm concerned about it. But on the immigration front,

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 2>there was a tendency amongst Democrats, and especially Democrats were

0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.919
<v Speaker 2>discussing the issue, so people who do interviews or are

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>part of the media to minimize it. Over the first

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 2>two and a half years, when there were a lot

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 2>of people coming in here, and I thought that it

0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 2>was a stunt. You know, when they started bussing migrants,

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 2>they scored a Mars vendors. Yeah, it was the smartest

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:18.359
<v Speaker 2>thing they ever did.

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Well. It's interesting because I have a friend who lives

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:22.879
<v Speaker 1>in Florida, and I said what did you think of

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott taking some of these immigrants

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and moving them to Northern States, And she said, I

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 1>thought it was great because nobody really was paying attention

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:41.240
<v Speaker 1>before that. And I do think that this untold story

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 1>was the strain on social services and communities, particularly along

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.639
<v Speaker 1>the border, this influx, huge influx of immigrants was having

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>and I think the mainstream media, however you define that

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 1>these days, kind of ignored that story to its peril.

0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Not only but you could make a good argument that

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:07.920
<v Speaker 2>they were protecting Biden from this that it was like,

0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I would rather talk about how we're inflation is coming

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 2>down faster here than it is for anyone else in

0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.680
<v Speaker 2>the G seven and all of these very good things

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:21.040
<v Speaker 2>that were actually happening, then deal with the crisis, which

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 2>is an everyday horror show like Eagle Past. Texas cannot

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.159
<v Speaker 2>take ten thousand people a day, and it's wrong for

0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>us to ask them to do it, and Democrats like

0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Mark Kelly, Henry Quayar screaming about it, and it led

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 2>to a point where some of these border state democrats

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to be linked with the administration on this

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:50.840
<v Speaker 2>because they knew that it was being so poorly handled

0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and that we didn't have a good solution. And I

0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 2>agree with you that comprehensive bill which James Langford wrote.

0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 2>It is one of the more with Chris Murphy, but

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.080
<v Speaker 2>James Langford is one of the more conservative people well

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 2>in the Senate in a genuine way. This isn't fake

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 2>right conservative populism. This is the real deal. But that

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 2>still came three and a half years after this crisis

0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>really amped up. And the speed at which we've been

0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:20.119
<v Speaker 2>able to cut down on border crossings, like because of

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.719
<v Speaker 2>the executive orders, and President Shinbaum of Mexico was touting

0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 2>this in her letter back to Donald Trump when he

0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.040
<v Speaker 2>threatened the twenty five percent tariff on her, where he

0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:33.200
<v Speaker 2>said border crossings down seventy five percent because of the

0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:35.880
<v Speaker 2>work that we're doing in conjunction with the Biden administration.

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 2>That's all well and good, but to the average voter,

0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 2>they're thinking, well, why didn't you do this before? If

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:42.919
<v Speaker 2>it was an executive order and you didn't actually need

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:46.960
<v Speaker 2>congressional approval to do it, why didn't you start with that?

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 2>The second Title forty two was lifted.

0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, and their answer to every question about immigration was well, well,

0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 1>early in the administration they had a bill and they

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 1>couldn't get any to do anything about it.

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:03.400
<v Speaker 2>We didn't think it was a big enough deal. Yeah,

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.080
<v Speaker 2>that's the thing. And you're totally right about the social services.

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.440
<v Speaker 2>And I've spoken to a number of people who not

0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 2>only you know, have the daily experience that I do.

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.640
<v Speaker 2>I take the subway in and out of work every day,

0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.720
<v Speaker 2>and probably one of the only people on camera that

0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>does that. And so I know what the subway is

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 2>like now, and I grew up here in the city,

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and I know what the difference is between that experience.

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>But when classrooms are filling up with kids who don't

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>speak English, and you have community centers like all over

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:38.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, big cities like Boston, community centers that are

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>built for underserved kids who need somewhere to go after school,

0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and they're being closed down to be turned into migrant shelters,

0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and you.

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Have hospitals that are overwhelmed, you know. And I think

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I even talked to Mark Thompson at one point and said,

0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 1>why aren't you covering this? And I thought it was interesting.

0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I also told him that I thought during the elee

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:04.400
<v Speaker 1>they should have bureaus all across the country in smaller

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 1>towns and rural communities, so they could actually and I

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.440
<v Speaker 1>know that John what's John's last name? Who the white

0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:13.920
<v Speaker 1>hair guy who does the map, John King, who I

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>really like. Sorry, John, I forgot your name for a second.

0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:19.159
<v Speaker 1>I know he went out and talked to real people,

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:21.360
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like they could have been much more

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:27.159
<v Speaker 1>embedded in real communities talking to people about, you know,

0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of issues that I think surfaced during this election.

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, so it was largely an immigration and inflation election,

0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:41.159
<v Speaker 1>But I'm curious if you think sexism also played a

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 1>role in it. Because I went to a doctor and

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>I said, gosh, I think Donald Trump may win this election.

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.800
<v Speaker 1>She said, well, we have two terrible choices. She just

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.560
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have the stature to deal with world leaders. And

0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 1>I thought, wow, that was a female doctor. Yeah, and

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious if you think that sexism is still an

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>albatross around the neck of many of these female candidates,

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>especially when it comes to the highest office in the land.

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I definitely do. I think that there are considerations

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 2>that go into the life of a professional woman on

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 2>any level that men never think about. Like it was

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:27.000
<v Speaker 2>very cute when Doug M Hoff at the DNC said,

0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, I like her laugh, but we don't care

0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:36.120
<v Speaker 2>about men's laughs, right, and we rarely notice what they're wearing. Right.

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 2>And I know everything. I know every pantsuit that Hillary wore,

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, and I know about all of Kamala's fashion

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:45.440
<v Speaker 2>choices and all of it.

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Y made I think an intentional decision to be even

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.919
<v Speaker 1>though they were beautiful Chloe suits, apparently to be as

0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:55.479
<v Speaker 1>nondescript as possibly very understated. Right.

0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:59.479
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'm sure you remember when Trump went

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.720
<v Speaker 2>after Nikki Haley saying her dress was ugly. You know,

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Nikki Haley purposely leaned into her femininity in a way

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic candidates don't typically. I think the only skirt

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Kamala one was when she went to Sunday Church, or

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.520
<v Speaker 2>when she went to Sunday Church, which is what to

0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:16.359
<v Speaker 2>a Black church, which is what you're supposed to do.

0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:17.840
<v Speaker 2>I am told.

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:19.399
<v Speaker 1>So.

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it is part of it, just in what

0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:26.200
<v Speaker 2>people take in about the aesthetics. But if we're being

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 2>honest and they see no reason not to be, you know,

0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 2>the first couple of years of the Biden administration, I

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 2>don't think she performed that well in public arenas, and

0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:44.160
<v Speaker 2>that people had that as their perception of her. There

0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 2>was this moment she was sent to the Munich Security Conference,

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 2>probably about two years ago, a year and a half,

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 2>two years ago, and she gave I think one of

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the best defenses of natter support of Zelenski and the

0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Ukrainian people, of Western values, democracy and going after totalitarians

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>like Putin, and she got praise across the political spectrum

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:15.840
<v Speaker 2>for it. One of those moments where the five is not,

0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, right, not adversarial, where even Janine is like,

0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>that was a good speech, That's what we're about here,

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and that moment and ensuing moments where I think she

0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 2>did well. I think especially in talking about the Dabbs

0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>decision and the implications of that, she did a great job.

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:35.520
<v Speaker 2>But those moments came too late, and I don't know

0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the inner workings of whether she was not amplified on

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:44.960
<v Speaker 2>purpose so that it was really Biden's administration or I agree.

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:46.960
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't think

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 1>she was. She was not nurtured, and I don't think

0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 1>she was was showcased in any way. And part of

0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 1>it I wondered if Joe Biden's discomfort and being in

0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:06.160
<v Speaker 1>spontane TuS media situations. They didn't want to then prop

0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:08.760
<v Speaker 1>her up for fear that she would overshadow him.

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting. I actually hadn't heard that you can use that.

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm taking you I'm gonna be like my pal Katie

0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 2>told me this.

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I think you know, That's what I wondered. Well.

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Also, once as this autopsy is being written about what happened,

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:28.800
<v Speaker 2>and you realize just how small Biden's circle is, smaller

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 2>than even presidents that have small circles like we're talking about,

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, Mike Donald and say Anita done and Anita done,

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Jill and Hunter. Essentially, are you know, making all of

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 2>these decisions like dropping out of the race, pardoning Hunter?

0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:50.240
<v Speaker 2>We don't know. I mean, it could be one person's feeling.

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>That will be interesting to find average to it.

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:57.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And there's, you know, part

0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 2>of me who feels as someone who was very defensive

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of the administration, not just for patty political reasons, but

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>because I genuinely believed in what we were doing and

0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:13.600
<v Speaker 2>things that we've created a recovery that's unprecedented.

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think Biden gets so little credit for

0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:20.640
<v Speaker 1>the things he has achieved. Is it all about, you know,

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 1>the aesthetics of his ability to communicate, to use the

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 1>bully pulpit properly, because I think with I saw someone

0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 1>reeling against the part and saying this, will you know this?

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was James Carville that he's going to be

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:41.440
<v Speaker 1>the have the lowest approval rating of any president in

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:44.840
<v Speaker 1>history and it Do you think it's a communications problem?

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you think it's a perception problem. Do you think

0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 1>there are things that are actually you know, legitimate to criticize?

0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:55.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what do you think is keeping him from

0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 1>from getting credit for anything? Really?

0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:03.479
<v Speaker 2>I think that he proved himself to not be as

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 2>much of the empathizer in chief as we thought that

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 2>he was. Like in the twenty twenty primary, I thought

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.600
<v Speaker 2>he did that really really well, where people thought, this

0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 2>is a guy who's on our side, this is a

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>guy who hasn't jumped the shark. He's not saying, you know,

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 2>health insurance for everyone who's here undocumented, we should have

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:23.840
<v Speaker 2>open borders.

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:27.760
<v Speaker 2>He seemed like the common sense right candidate him and

0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>like Amy klobashar right, who I love and can't get

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:32.960
<v Speaker 2>out of a primary, but would be an amazing president

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 2>for sure. And it is a communications problem. I think

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:42.080
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't able to toe the line of being able

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 2>to speak highly of what they were doing and to

0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 2>also say, I know it's not enough right now, I

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:51.320
<v Speaker 2>know what your life looks like.

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Right He couldn't really feel their pain like Bill Clinton did.

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:57.440
<v Speaker 1>No well, and I wonder why no, because I think

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 1>he genuinely does. I think he's an incredibly rithetic.

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Frankly about being destroyed on conservative media constantly and his

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 2>accomplishments being belittled and people talking down about him. I mean,

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 2>this guy is run for president three times. He obviously

0:33:15.800 --> 0:33:20.480
<v Speaker 2>believes that he should be there and that he has

0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 2>earned a level of respect that he did not feel

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:26.840
<v Speaker 2>that he was getting for being able to do these things,

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>for being able to work with conservatives when he needed

0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:34.840
<v Speaker 2>to to, you know, make sure that we have investments

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:37.720
<v Speaker 2>like the Chips and Science Act. What happened. It was

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 2>a skinny version of the bill, but the Inflation Reduction Act,

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 2>which a lot of people still mistakenly say was what

0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 2>spiked inflation, and that's absolutely not true.

0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I've read enough stuff that's that at

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:52.320
<v Speaker 1>least it might have contributed. I'm no economist, Jessica, but

0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, an influx of that much money, there are

0:33:56.440 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>some that argue that really wasn't helpful to the economy

0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:02.479
<v Speaker 1>met but again, an economists.

0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Justin Wolfers, who worked in the Bomba administration and is

0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:09.239
<v Speaker 2>a great liberal economist. What I'm saying is that when

0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 2>you look at where the inflation numbers are now, there

0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>was a temporary pain that was unsustainable for people, but

0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:21.120
<v Speaker 2>they were looking at it on a long curve and

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:25.319
<v Speaker 2>it seems to have come back down to a palatable level.

0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 2>But people went and voted feeling like inflation was fifteen

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.160
<v Speaker 2>percent and not that it was two or three.

0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:40.840
<v Speaker 1>If you want to get smarter every morning with a

0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:44.160
<v Speaker 1>breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:47.520
<v Speaker 1>wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

0:34:47.640 --> 0:35:00.080
<v Speaker 1>Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Do

0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:03.279
<v Speaker 1>you think historically that Joe Biden will be considered a

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.760
<v Speaker 1>better president than he's believed to be at this moment

0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:07.239
<v Speaker 1>in time?

0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:11.239
<v Speaker 2>For his sake, I think, unfortunately, the decisions that he

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:15.120
<v Speaker 2>made around what to do in terms of running and

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of more social you know, like the Hunter pardon

0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.000
<v Speaker 2>or and whatever is to come. I think if he

0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:25.080
<v Speaker 2>goes around blanket pardoning anyone involved with the January sixth

0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Committee or things like that, it'll get even worse.

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:29.840
<v Speaker 1>For sort of those preemptive parties. But I don't know.

0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:33.520
<v Speaker 1>Listen but for you, listen to that interview on Meet

0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>the Press with Donald Trump basically saying Liz Cheney deserves

0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.880
<v Speaker 1>to be in prison any top sale I mean, I.

0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Mean Cashpitel has an enemy's list that he published in

0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:45.080
<v Speaker 2>his book, So why would that be so bad to

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 2>But what are you partning them for?

0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that a lot of people don't want

0:35:49.040 --> 0:35:52.319
<v Speaker 1>him to pardon them because it's an admission they did

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:55.440
<v Speaker 1>something wrong when they were actually just holding people.

0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Aunt has even said, don't yeah, s that's a terrible

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:03.560
<v Speaker 2>press and for what we weren't on the wrong side

0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:05.800
<v Speaker 2>of the law. And I'm glad that he has faith

0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:08.840
<v Speaker 2>in the system that it'll protect them. I'm not so

0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 2>sure if you get through all of these confirmations. And

0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Pam Bondi is obviously better than Matt Gates, but she will.

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:20.319
<v Speaker 1>Say not that much she is. I don't think he's

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:24.680
<v Speaker 1>like sexually assaulted underage girls. But as far as we know,

0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:26.080
<v Speaker 1>she did not do that.

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:28.880
<v Speaker 2>But no, she you know, she was on the election

0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 2>denihilism tour with a lot of these lawyers and was out.

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.480
<v Speaker 2>I think she gave a press conference in Philadelphia talking about,

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, all the stolen votes and all of that,

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 2>and none of that is good. But you have to

0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:45.400
<v Speaker 2>reassess your standards, I think for what he's doing, with

0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:49.200
<v Speaker 2>a few exceptions in terms of foreign policy, I am

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:49.880
<v Speaker 2>very happy.

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Yes, a lot of people are.

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm friends with Mike Walt, who's going to

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 2>be the National Security Advisor.

0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.719
<v Speaker 1>I think people think he's fine. I think they think

0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:02.359
<v Speaker 1>Rubio is fine. It's these other people, like Fox's own

0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Pete Hegseeth And I'm curious how you feel that Fox

0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:10.279
<v Speaker 1>pretty much ignores the story. They invite his mother on

0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:12.839
<v Speaker 1>Fox and Friends. But when it comes to all these

0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:18.560
<v Speaker 1>allegations that are pretty serious, honestly, from I mean from

0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:24.279
<v Speaker 1>drinking to sexually assaulting women, to driving an organization into

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:28.200
<v Speaker 1>the ground, to all kinds of things, Fox kind of

0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>ignores them.

0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't. I mean, at least in the last

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:33.920
<v Speaker 2>few days, every time that I look up at a

0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.320
<v Speaker 2>screen when I'm in the makeup chair, Pete is on

0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 2>it and there's a gaggle around him and they're covering it.

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I think the first mention was Chad Program, who's a

0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.160
<v Speaker 2>great reporter of ours, and it was on Brettbaer's show,

0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.320
<v Speaker 2>The Straight News Show, and it was mentioned there. And

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:51.280
<v Speaker 2>there has been ensuing coverage.

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 1>But you know what I mean, I do and I don't.

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 1>It's ongoing. I you're not running Fox shows. I'm not

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:02.960
<v Speaker 1>asking you to defend defend the editorial decisions. But it

0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:07.520
<v Speaker 1>just does seem weird to me. I take your point.

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 1>I I no, he loosely, you know, have been on

0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:15.680
<v Speaker 1>with him. He's always been very pleasant to me. I

0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:18.840
<v Speaker 1>think the alleysians are serious, and you see people like

0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Joni Ernst who's obviously taking them seriously. And I think

0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 1>now she's kind of switched and said that she had

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:32.239
<v Speaker 1>a I'm paraphrasing, you know, a great conversations. He continues

0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 1>to support his nomination.

0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that's saying that someone should get to go

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 2>before the committee isn't the same thing as saying this

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.480
<v Speaker 2>is okay. And there is a very strong argument to

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.719
<v Speaker 2>be made that a president who certainly in the mind

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 2>of Republicans, has a big mandate, should get to have

0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:54.320
<v Speaker 2>his nominees come through, like someone like Tom Cotton released

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.719
<v Speaker 2>a statement saying, I expect that they will get their

0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.239
<v Speaker 2>hearings and that they will get confirmed. And he's one

0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:04.920
<v Speaker 2>who's a complete neo KHN like normal hawk right, like

0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:09.440
<v Speaker 2>a Mitch McConnell, but younger. And he's even saying that,

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:10.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think.

0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:13.000
<v Speaker 1>That I think we haven't really heard from Susan Collins

0:39:13.120 --> 0:39:17.279
<v Speaker 1>or Lisa Murkowski and they only need write one Republican

0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:18.359
<v Speaker 1>No they need.

0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 2>They'll need how many three? So because Jadie Vance will

0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 2>be you can vote? So yeah, would I love it

0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.640
<v Speaker 2>if Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski just stood up and

0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:29.280
<v Speaker 2>said no to seventy five percent or whatever.

0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:32.640
<v Speaker 2>I think there are there are different threat levels that

0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:35.360
<v Speaker 2>each of them are posing. And I hate that someone

0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:38.640
<v Speaker 2>who I think is as dangerous as like an RFK

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Junior getting as the head of HHS is now like

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 2>a shrug to people because they feel a guy have

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:48.640
<v Speaker 2>bigger fish to fry here, like right, Tulca Gabbert is interesting.

0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:51.880
<v Speaker 1>I know that you said something about Tulsea Cabbard. You

0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 1>said that I guess what did you say about her?

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 1>That she was sort of your hair on fire? Pick? Oh,

0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:00.520
<v Speaker 1>top anxiety pick yeah.

0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Peak anxiousness about Telsea Gabbard. You know, it's been interesting

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 2>because I feel like she hasn't gotten a lot of intention.

0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:10.360
<v Speaker 2>But then there was a story that came out yesterday

0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:13.320
<v Speaker 2>about the meetings that she's been having with senators and

0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 2>that apparently it's not going well. So if it's just

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:20.239
<v Speaker 2>undercovered and she ends up being not confirmed, fine by me.

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to hear about it all the time.

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 2>But you know, watching the scenes out of Syria the

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:32.120
<v Speaker 2>past few days and thinking back to her defense of Assad,

0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.640
<v Speaker 2>which is the original I think that might be part

0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:38.560
<v Speaker 2>of that was probably from my podcast. But I spoke

0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:40.759
<v Speaker 2>about her on The Five a couple of years ago

0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 2>and I said, I am not in the business of

0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:45.960
<v Speaker 2>accusing someone of being a Russian asset. That is very serious,

0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:47.680
<v Speaker 2>and it got us in a whole host of trouble

0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:52.360
<v Speaker 2>in twenty sixteen about Trump, and you know that backfired.

0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:57.879
<v Speaker 2>But they like her too much, and they talk about

0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:02.280
<v Speaker 2>her on Russian state TV, and I think a commentator

0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:04.799
<v Speaker 2>and even said recently like she's the only good one

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:07.520
<v Speaker 2>left in this, you know, the only one that guess us,

0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 2>because Marco Rubio doesn't feel that way about Putin or

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Asad and Mike Waltz certainly doesn't. So Tolci is very

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:22.400
<v Speaker 2>concerning to me. But I don't know, Like Bernie Sanders

0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.760
<v Speaker 2>has said that he might support her and RFK Junior,

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:29.759
<v Speaker 2>which seems like a complete betrayal of a lot of

0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:32.920
<v Speaker 2>his beliefs or what I thought that they were. But

0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:36.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I believe more in Lisa Murkowski than

0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I do Susan Collins. You know, she's always deeply disturbed

0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 2>by things, and then you know, votes for them. So

0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be a mess. It's gonna be good

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:46.320
<v Speaker 2>TV programming.

0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Though, definitely, definitely. We're almost out of time. But I

0:41:48.920 --> 0:41:51.920
<v Speaker 1>wanted to ask you just a couple of questions in

0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:56.879
<v Speaker 1>closing one. You know, there's so much handwringing and introspection

0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.480
<v Speaker 1>about what the Democratic Party needs to do now, and

0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Chris Murphy, who I'm interviewing this afternoon, I think they said, yeah,

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:08.400
<v Speaker 1>that they need to be more populist and come up

0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:11.360
<v Speaker 1>with really a different strategy. I mean, as somebody who's

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:14.239
<v Speaker 1>been steeped in democratic politics, for a long time. What

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:15.920
<v Speaker 1>advice would you give the party.

0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's hard to do it if you're not naturally

0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:24.560
<v Speaker 2>prone to be able to but speaking like a normal

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:28.359
<v Speaker 2>human is a good one. And rewiring. I mean, I've

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:30.879
<v Speaker 2>heard a lot of people and there's a huge rise

0:42:30.960 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 2>in the number of folks who identify with a third party, right,

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:35.560
<v Speaker 2>who are just like I'm an independent, And then it's

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.440
<v Speaker 2>usually an issue like being pro choice or something that

0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:43.360
<v Speaker 2>sways you in one direction or the other. But I

0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:45.600
<v Speaker 2>would love it if we could kind of strip the

0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:50.320
<v Speaker 2>title Democratic Party off of it and just common sense party.

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:55.440
<v Speaker 2>What does your heart tell you about X policy or

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:58.400
<v Speaker 2>exposition that you might be taking? And I think that

0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:00.960
<v Speaker 2>that would serve us a lot better. We certainly wouldn't

0:43:00.960 --> 0:43:03.440
<v Speaker 2>have gotten into this mess with you know. The ad

0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 2>that had the most impact on the election was the

0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 2>They Them You ad with Charlemagne in it, and it

0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:15.359
<v Speaker 2>was an ad about trans issues, but it was mostly

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.840
<v Speaker 2>an economic ad, right. It was basically saying, the Democratic

0:43:18.880 --> 0:43:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Party is taking your cash and putting it towards something outlandish, right,

0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:28.279
<v Speaker 2>that no one thinks about, that affects one person every

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:33.279
<v Speaker 2>five years, maybe, right, the sex changes for undocumented people

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:38.240
<v Speaker 2>in jail. That is the smallest subcategory you could probably

0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:38.920
<v Speaker 2>ever come up with.

0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's interesting, But you think it really

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:50.040
<v Speaker 1>translated to a feeling of being economically ripped off by government.

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:53.480
<v Speaker 2>This is where your dollars are going. They do it

0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:57.799
<v Speaker 2>about migrants, they do it about foreign policy. That's how

0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:00.759
<v Speaker 2>they've turned people against the idea of giving money to

0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.000
<v Speaker 2>your brain and in some cases to Israel. I mean,

0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Jade Vance even voted against the Israel funding package, which

0:44:08.080 --> 0:44:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I know he's on board now that you know there's

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>a new sheriff in town, and he's part of that

0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 2>ticket obviously. But I think if you just let yourself

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:21.440
<v Speaker 2>be governed by your gut more than your party affiliation,

0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:24.319
<v Speaker 2>that we would do better. Because a lot of these

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:26.719
<v Speaker 2>people who were interviewed, and I'm sure you saw some

0:44:26.840 --> 0:44:29.440
<v Speaker 2>of these interviews as well, like the former Democrat who

0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:31.800
<v Speaker 2>is a prison guard who was interviewed about why he

0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:37.560
<v Speaker 2>had voted Hillary Biden Trump, and he said, the Democratic

0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Party doesn't like people like me. Or the woman who

0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:45.160
<v Speaker 2>was in a focus group who said, they've asked, you know,

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:47.760
<v Speaker 2>what words would you use to describe the two parties?

0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>And she said the GOP was crazy and the Democratic

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Party was preachy, and she said, preachy doesn't work for me.

0:44:57.000 --> 0:45:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I can handle a lunatic, then I can handle a

0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.719
<v Speaker 2>party that makes me feel bad about myself. Right, And

0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:06.920
<v Speaker 2>we made a lot of people feel bad about themselves.

0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I got to know someone who's covering the Trump

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>campaign and she said, I said, what is you know,

0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:14.600
<v Speaker 1>you go to a lot of these rallies. What do

0:45:14.680 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 1>you think is really motivating? And she said the lefty

0:45:18.320 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 1>lecture culture.

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which frankly is me. I mean a lot of

0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.719
<v Speaker 2>the criticism that I get from the right, and you know,

0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I think now I'm just part of the ecosystem and

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:33.440
<v Speaker 2>they've come to accept me. But you know, I have

0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a PhD. I wears you went to the school shuring

0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 2>you about your your I went to Brent Maar, grew

0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 2>up in New York City, went to private school, all

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of it like limousine liberal to the max. And I

0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:52.279
<v Speaker 2>sit up there and sometimes go off for you know,

0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:55.759
<v Speaker 2>a full minute at a time about Biden's accomplishments. I

0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:57.960
<v Speaker 2>did it just yesterday. I said, you know, we were

0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 2>talking about what his legacy would be, and my colleague,

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.279
<v Speaker 2>we're crapping on him, and I said, you know what,

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.439
<v Speaker 2>his legacy is the best recovery in the G seven.

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.640
<v Speaker 2>That's what his legacy is. And what did they say

0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:14.000
<v Speaker 2>to that? Jesse was like, we're moving on. You know,

0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:17.279
<v Speaker 2>I take all of those as a w when they

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:18.880
<v Speaker 2>just say moving on. But I would like to be

0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:21.760
<v Speaker 2>more common sense about things. I would like to speak

0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:23.120
<v Speaker 2>in plainer language.

0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know you do a podcast with Scott Galloway

0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:30.520
<v Speaker 1>called Regene Moderates, and there was a time when being

0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 1>a moderate was so out of fashion. Yeah, and I

0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.760
<v Speaker 1>wonder if you think, as a result of this election

0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 1>that suddenly we're going to say, maybe it's not so

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.279
<v Speaker 1>bad to be moderate. But how do you fight sort

0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:48.560
<v Speaker 1>of extreme conservativism, which it has been pulled over to

0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the right with moderation because it seems like the whole

0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:56.960
<v Speaker 1>idea is to get people all worked up right, and

0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 1>moderation isn't very sexy. Jessica, No, but I think that

0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:05.480
<v Speaker 1>if the number one thing that people took away from

0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Kamala's campaign, which was she's too left for me, And

0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:13.080
<v Speaker 1>part of that was they did a great job at

0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:15.520
<v Speaker 1>amplifying clips from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty and that

0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Kamala didn't want to deal with them, right, and she

0:47:17.880 --> 0:47:21.160
<v Speaker 1>net down and say like she never really answered that

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:22.759
<v Speaker 1>those questions very well. Well.

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Obviously the view question from Sunny Houston that was the

0:47:26.760 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 2>nuclear explosion, like how are you different from Biden? And

0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:31.759
<v Speaker 2>I saw you speaking about it where you're like, how

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:32.840
<v Speaker 2>do you want to have an answer to that?

0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:36.799
<v Speaker 2>And Biden doesn't seem to me to be someone who

0:47:36.800 --> 0:47:41.640
<v Speaker 2>would be aggravated if you said, respectfully, we did a

0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:43.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of great things, but this is what a Kamala

0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Harris presidency does.

0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Definitely, we don't know, we don't know how. No, but

0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:49.160
<v Speaker 1>he would have responded to that.

0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:50.480
<v Speaker 2>But what's he going to do to her?

0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:50.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:52.120
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, I agree.

0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:54.320
<v Speaker 1>I think she went too out of her way not

0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:55.480
<v Speaker 1>to hurt his feelings.

0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:58.640
<v Speaker 2>And we also have to think about not only winning

0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:03.560
<v Speaker 2>back the working class voters, but there are moderate Republicans

0:48:03.800 --> 0:48:07.040
<v Speaker 2>and centrists that do not want to go home to

0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the Republican Party. Even if the top of the ticket

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.640
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty eight, it shouldn't be Donald Trump. God

0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.040
<v Speaker 2>knows what he'll do, but let's say it's some JD

0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Vance or other. They want to be part of a

0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:22.560
<v Speaker 2>pro democracy party, and we are that, and we have

0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:26.400
<v Speaker 2>to be reasonable to be able to integrate them and

0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:30.960
<v Speaker 2>make it easy for the liz Cheneys of the world

0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:33.200
<v Speaker 2>to want to be part of us, not just when

0:48:33.239 --> 0:48:38.320
<v Speaker 2>there's someone with you know, authoritarian tendencies. I think to

0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 2>be you know, fair about it at the top of

0:48:41.120 --> 0:48:44.880
<v Speaker 2>the ticket, but when they're running a normal Republican to

0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:48.520
<v Speaker 2>just say, actually, what the Democrats are selling resonates with me,

0:48:49.080 --> 0:48:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and they're better for the economy, and they respect people's

0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:56.200
<v Speaker 2>personal liberties and they're not insane.

0:48:57.040 --> 0:48:59.680
<v Speaker 1>You know. It seems to me that you are a

0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:04.800
<v Speaker 1>role model for people on how to get out of

0:49:04.880 --> 0:49:10.239
<v Speaker 1>their bubbles, how to have conversations with people respectfully, with compassion.

0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing a book about it.

0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Well you should because and I'd love to saying.

0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:16.399
<v Speaker 2>Your copy it will be down the line. It takes

0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>a lotting a book. I did not know about the

0:49:18.200 --> 0:49:19.200
<v Speaker 2>schedules of these things.

0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes it does. I can test to that. But I

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:24.879
<v Speaker 1>really think that you would have a lot to say

0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:30.440
<v Speaker 1>about respecting people, having conversations, meeting people where they are,

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and not ending with a food fight at the holiday

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:39.200
<v Speaker 1>dinner table, because I think we really need that if

0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:41.520
<v Speaker 1>we're going to solve some of the thorniest issues that

0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:42.640
<v Speaker 1>are facing our country.

0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope so. And I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.

0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:49.359
<v Speaker 2>I take it really seriously. And I know that also

0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:51.360
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people around this country, I'm the

0:49:51.440 --> 0:49:55.400
<v Speaker 2>only Democrat that they might know in their lives, right

0:49:55.480 --> 0:49:59.239
<v Speaker 2>because there are people that are siloed, and I think

0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 2>it's so important to represent the values of this party

0:50:02.719 --> 0:50:06.600
<v Speaker 2>that I care deeply about in a sane and approachable

0:50:06.880 --> 0:50:10.839
<v Speaker 2>way where you know, they can't write me off as

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.879
<v Speaker 2>someone that's lost their mind or someone who can't say

0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:18.960
<v Speaker 2>something that's obvious. And obviously I have my moments, you know,

0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:23.320
<v Speaker 2>where I am over my skis as far as they're concerned.

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:25.680
<v Speaker 2>But generally speaking, I think if you you know, had

0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:28.520
<v Speaker 2>my colleagues on, they would all say, I'm just like

0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:31.440
<v Speaker 2>a pretty moderate rational Democrat.

0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Do all ever like have dinner, go out for drinks?

0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:37.480
<v Speaker 2>So well, the it's I go out with Jesse Waters's

0:50:37.520 --> 0:50:42.759
<v Speaker 2>wife on my own, you know, Janine. I've recycled the

0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:45.479
<v Speaker 2>story now, but like Janine who has a grandson around

0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:47.480
<v Speaker 2>the same age as my oldest who turns three today,

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Happy birthday, Cleo. Got me baby formula when there was

0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.320
<v Speaker 2>no baby formula. I don't she knew a guy. I

0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:56.800
<v Speaker 2>don't ask questions when Janine says I know somebody I

0:50:56.880 --> 0:51:00.680
<v Speaker 2>can get you that. But like, there it is. It

0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:03.759
<v Speaker 2>is genuinely the messed up family that you see on TV.

0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:08.400
<v Speaker 2>And I really appreciate that and the opportunity to get

0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:10.439
<v Speaker 2>to talk. I talked to four point three million people

0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 2>a day about what Democrats are doing right or what

0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:21.920
<v Speaker 2>frankly translating the perception that they've gotten through people who

0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 2>are not being honest brokers with them, or a communication

0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.880
<v Speaker 2>system for the party that I think really failed, you know,

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and I hate having to start a sentence with like

0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:32.399
<v Speaker 2>I would have said it this way. You know, I'm

0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:35.360
<v Speaker 2>not auditioning to be press secretary or anything like that,

0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:37.800
<v Speaker 2>but you know, you know what that's like where you're like,

0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:41.279
<v Speaker 2>that's actually not helpful. It's not helpful, and it's not

0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:44.879
<v Speaker 2>the truth. It's not what the policy actually does, it's

0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.319
<v Speaker 2>not what happened at X event.

0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:51.239
<v Speaker 1>You know. Yeah, definitely, Well I could talk to you

0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:54.960
<v Speaker 1>for hours. Yeah, but thank you so much for being

0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:57.920
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast. Thank you for what you do every

0:51:58.400 --> 0:52:01.320
<v Speaker 1>other day. I guess on follow me a week and

0:52:01.400 --> 0:52:03.399
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you should probably have your own show

0:52:03.520 --> 0:52:06.920
<v Speaker 1>where you talk one on one which shy call Suzanne Scott.

0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:07.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:52:08.400 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Great? Do I get to get percent?

0:52:11.280 --> 0:52:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, see is going to fight you for it?

0:52:13.040 --> 0:52:15.719
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, great work. Be with you.

0:52:16.000 --> 0:52:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Jessica.

0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:17.839
<v Speaker 2>This is great.

0:52:26.040 --> 0:52:29.239
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:32.120
<v Speaker 1>a subject you want us to cover, or you want

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<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

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<v Speaker 1>of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

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<v Speaker 1>Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

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<v Speaker 1>and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

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<v Speaker 1>Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

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