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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question.
Speaker 1: It's the holiday season, Okay, I tried everyone, and with that,
Speaker 1: many of us are gearing up to sit around tables
Speaker 1: with people we don't necessarily see eye to eye with. Well,
Speaker 1: that's something Jessica Tarlove does every single week. If you
Speaker 1: don't know Jessica, she is the co host of The
Speaker 1: Five on Fox News, where she's the lone liberal voice
Speaker 1: among a panel of conservatives. She's built a reputation as
Speaker 1: someone who can stand her ground and convey her points
Speaker 1: without stooping to personal attacks and invect it. I wanted
Speaker 1: to know, as do a lot of people, how the
Speaker 1: heck does she do it? What is the secret to
Speaker 1: keeping her cool, rationally stating her position and keeping things
Speaker 1: well civil. Let's face it, we could all use a
Speaker 1: little help in that department, especially as the holidays approached.
Speaker 1: So get your pencils ready and take notes. Here's my
Speaker 1: conversation with Jessica tar Love. Hi Jessica, Hi, so nice
Speaker 1: to meet you met Katie have we never met before?
Speaker 2: We met once at can Lyons at pTau like five
Speaker 2: years ago. Oh my god, but like many cocktails do you?
Speaker 2: And it was just like a fan girling where I
Speaker 2: was like, Katie Kurk's here, so funny, so loosely we met.
Speaker 1: Well, now I'm very excited that Jessica tar Love is here.
Speaker 1: So I guess one of the first questions I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you and then we'll talk about all kinds
Speaker 1: of things. Jessica is something that a lot of my
Speaker 1: social media followers asked, and that was how do you
Speaker 1: do it? How do you sit with four very conservative people?
Speaker 1: Not every night? I guess you alternate with Harold Ford? Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: but how do you do that? It's a a man
Speaker 1: job to several times a week and keep your cool,
Speaker 1: and I think it's miraculous. I've watched you a few times.
Speaker 1: I'm not a regular viewer of the Five.
Speaker 2: I'm guess you are, though we have twenty two percent Democrats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, and I do like I like Dana
Speaker 1: and I know Judge Janine from my previous life on
Speaker 1: the Today Show. I don't really know Jesse or Greg Guttfeld.
Speaker 1: That's a fascinating, fascinating thing in and of itself. His
Speaker 1: Late night show. We sometimes watch because we're fascinated by it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're not alone in watching it and being
Speaker 2: fascinated by it. He definitely filled a void in the
Speaker 2: late time space, late night space, I should say, where
Speaker 2: people didn't want to see five of the same guy
Speaker 2: making the same jokes. Right, and he invites on a
Speaker 2: wide range of people to be there, right, and people
Speaker 2: are culty about it. I mean, he not just the ratings,
Speaker 2: but how well he performs in the demo astounding. So
Speaker 2: there are young people doing this, and then you look
Speaker 2: at the election results and you say, well, this makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: They're like thirty somethings that are into this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, getting back to you, tell me how you
Speaker 1: go on when you go on, and how you brace
Speaker 1: yourself to be honestly a lone voice for sort of
Speaker 1: the democratic point of view on that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I will say, And I think it is
Speaker 2: important contextually because a lot of people who watch the
Speaker 2: show or see clips of me flying around, which is
Speaker 2: how most people with my politics at least experience, They're like,
Speaker 2: you mean, this is a whole hour because I thought
Speaker 2: it was a three minute and fifteen second show, Like,
Speaker 2: not at all. It goes the whole hour. I've been
Speaker 2: at Fox my entire media career, so I don't know
Speaker 2: anything different than being odd woman out, and I think
Speaker 2: it's prepared me for those more difficult conversations. I mean
Speaker 2: a lot of the five And I think why it
Speaker 2: resonates with viewers is it's pretty light. Right, it's five o'clock.
Speaker 2: You're supposed to be like hanging out. It's after work
Speaker 2: for you know, whever, it's dinner time for some of
Speaker 2: our older viewers, right, you're.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, they're having the Early Word special. Now it's
Speaker 1: chic everywhere, and now people are maybe fixing dinner sticking rights.
Speaker 2: And it's not supposed to be upsetting, right, It's not
Speaker 2: supposed to be something. And so much of political commentary
Speaker 2: right now and just discourse is harmful to your mental
Speaker 2: well being and enraging, enraging, and it's not supposed to
Speaker 2: do that. You're supposed to pay attention. And we obviously
Speaker 2: the first half of the show where we do most
Speaker 2: of the red meat political conversation, there are moments that
Speaker 2: people get amped up especially when you really care about things.
Speaker 2: And like you said, they are very passionate players that
Speaker 2: are part of this ensemble. But we are trying and
Speaker 2: seem to have effectively replicated what a lot of people
Speaker 2: know in their real lives, where they have, you know,
Speaker 2: a Thanksgiving table that might be predominantly conservative, but like
Speaker 2: Aunt Jessica is invited and like she's really pissed that
Speaker 2: Kamala lost or whatever, and there are moments of agreement
Speaker 2: right where we all kind of come together and say, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem right right, we can all be on
Speaker 2: the same side of this. So, having been at Fox
Speaker 2: my whole career, I think it's just more inherently normal
Speaker 2: to me to be in those kinds of moments.
Speaker 1: Well, actually that brings me to my obvious follow up
Speaker 1: is why have you been at Fox your entire career,
Speaker 1: Jessica and what attracted you to that format as somebody
Speaker 1: who whose ideology doesn't know necessarily mesh with most the
Speaker 1: vast majority of people there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my background is in political polling. I have a
Speaker 2: PhD in government. I came back to I did my
Speaker 2: PhD at LC in London, came home and I went
Speaker 2: to work for Doug Shown, who was Bill Clinton's polster, right,
Speaker 2: and Doug was and he went to bar I went
Speaker 2: to Renmark. Yeah, seven Sisters Forever that.
Speaker 1: My sisters both went to Smith and I got rejected.
Speaker 1: Jessica rejected. Not even waitless jokes on that that is
Speaker 1: another podcast for another time, but go on.
Speaker 2: I was it's starting that I have young kids. But
Speaker 2: I have some friends who have kids that are thinking
Speaker 2: about heading into high school, and well they're not thinking
Speaker 2: about it. They were going to go and they're thinking
Speaker 2: about what high schools to go to. And I went
Speaker 2: to Dalton here in New York City for just high
Speaker 2: school and very prestigious, really hard to get into. And
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, how did you make that choice? And
Speaker 2: I'm like, little secret, I applied to thirteen schools out
Speaker 2: of eighth grade and only got into Dalton. So I
Speaker 2: feel you. The other us are like, we're not.
Speaker 1: I feel validated. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Jessica Smith should feel bad.
Speaker 1: I love Smith though, yeah, my sisters did too, and
Speaker 1: one was five Beta Capain. They apparently loved sisters, so
Speaker 1: I was really kind of bummed when they are there's
Speaker 1: no backstory, No, I think it was I wasn't as
Speaker 1: good a student as my sisters. But anyway, go on,
Speaker 1: you went to Fox.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Doug was a contributor at Fox basically since
Speaker 2: he got out of the Clinton administration, and he was
Speaker 2: as I continued to grow working for him and learning
Speaker 2: how to do polling and delving more into the research side,
Speaker 2: and I'm fundamentally a researcher. He said, I think it
Speaker 2: would be really good for you to build your media skills.
Speaker 2: And because he had connections to Fox, he introduced me
Speaker 2: to Bookers and I started coming on.
Speaker 1: But first your grandparents had met him at the Harmony
Speaker 1: Club and basically.
Speaker 2: Tila's all this time the Harmony Club, which is like
Speaker 2: a very obnoxious, predominantly Jewish on the Upper East Side.
Speaker 2: I was finishing my PhD, and my grandmother, like an
Speaker 2: overbearing Jewish grandmother, like went up to him, probably while
Speaker 2: he was at the buffet or something, and said, I
Speaker 2: have a really smart granddaughter. And he's like, I've heard
Speaker 2: that before. And he's like she's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: she's really smart. Give her a chance, and he did,
Speaker 2: which is how I started working for him.
Speaker 1: And he's your grandmother, right, you owe a lot to her.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: She's another podcast about the deeply complicated history of Malvina Roberts.
Speaker 2: But she got me where I was going and I
Speaker 2: will always be thankful for that. But then it just
Speaker 2: pretty quickly was a good fit. I'm a proud establishment Democrat,
Speaker 2: very moderate by the party standards, you know, Nancy Pelosi,
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton type of Democrat, not more AOC Bernie Sanders mold.
Speaker 2: And I think that that works better with the bipartisan conversation,
Speaker 2: because I mean, if you want to have a food fight,
Speaker 2: and you remember what cable news was like around once
Speaker 2: Trump announced, and like every night on CNN, it was
Speaker 2: like Anna Navarro losing her mind, right, and Kaylee mcanenney
Speaker 2: was on in those days, and Anderson Cooper is just
Speaker 2: kind of sitting in the middle petrified, right like that
Speaker 2: that's what it was like. But you could have a
Speaker 2: more thoughtful conversation. And I found myself being able to
Speaker 2: do that more or less. And it always is embedded,
Speaker 2: at least for me, coming from a place of understanding
Speaker 2: that I'm talking to people who generally come by their
Speaker 2: beliefs honestly, and I think that too many people suppose
Speaker 2: that folks who they don't agree with don't actually believe
Speaker 2: the things that they're saying, but most of the time
Speaker 2: they do, and a lot of that is due to
Speaker 2: circumstances how they grow up. Like I grew up here
Speaker 2: in New York City, I have had a charmed life.
Speaker 2: I know where my liberal politics come from and what
Speaker 2: my lived experience has been, and going to work at
Speaker 2: a place like Fox, I now have people in my
Speaker 2: orbit who have a completely different set of backgrounds, who
Speaker 2: when they talk about how they feel about the Second
Speaker 2: Amendment that comes from a place of growing up with
Speaker 2: guns and having hunters in their families, or when they
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, probably the toughest issue that I
Speaker 2: ever have to discuss on air being pro life or
Speaker 2: bringing pro choice, especially in the wake of the Dobbs decision,
Speaker 2: that a lot of people's beliefs on that is rooted
Speaker 2: in their religiosity. Where I look at it as a
Speaker 2: policy issue and a scientific issue, and they're telling.
Speaker 1: Me about so a personal liberty issue, all of the.
Speaker 2: Things that we think about it versus this is what
Speaker 2: I was taught in Sunday School, This is what I
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in mesh in an environment
Speaker 2: that feels really differently to that, so that has been enlightening.
Speaker 2: But basically it was a good fit and Fox hired
Speaker 2: me right after the twenty sixteen election, and so that
Speaker 2: is just where I've been in and they've allowed me
Speaker 2: to grow. Susanne Scott, who's the CEO of Fox, you know,
Speaker 2: she promoted me eight months pregnant to get the hosting
Speaker 2: job on the five, which is massive. And you know
Speaker 2: what it's like, you're completely freaking out when you're with child,
Speaker 2: let alone publicly with child like that, and will your
Speaker 2: job be there for you? And They've been extremely nurturing
Speaker 2: to me. And I think also putting such an outspoken
Speaker 2: democrat on, I mean, we've been the top show in
Speaker 2: cable news for years now, I think says something about
Speaker 2: the kind of conversation that they want going on on
Speaker 2: their airwaves. So yes, ah, it's still four on one
Speaker 2: or three on one. Dana Prino is well, I.
Speaker 1: Was I was going to say, it's it's that is
Speaker 1: a real anomaly though in the Fox lineup. I mean,
Speaker 1: let's be honest, you say that's the kind of show
Speaker 1: and the conversations they want on their air but they
Speaker 1: are really few and far between are they not, Well.
Speaker 2: It's different there. A panel show is different than as
Speaker 2: host show, right, but even the guests and even sort
Speaker 2: of the no one's going to pretend that it's not
Speaker 2: right leaning, especially in prime time. I think you could
Speaker 2: have conversations about what Neil Cavuto does on his show,
Speaker 2: what Brett Bair does on a show, what Shannon Breem
Speaker 2: does on Fox News Sunday and Chris Wallace before her,
Speaker 2: and know that some of the most productive conversations with
Speaker 2: Democrats have actually occurred on those shows, and that actually,
Speaker 2: you know, like Brett, for instance, on Special Report has
Speaker 2: a segment called common Ground where he has on a
Speaker 2: dem and a Republican and the most liberal senators are
Speaker 2: dying again like Elizabeth Warren would want to come on
Speaker 2: Fox to be able to do that. So there are
Speaker 2: moments where I think actually the fact that it is
Speaker 2: conservative leaning, you know, writ large, not necessarily those newscasters,
Speaker 2: creates an environment that Democrats know that they want to
Speaker 2: be a part of that. Because also a we have
Speaker 2: the numbers like if you're watching cable news, you're watching
Speaker 2: Fox most likely, and especially if you look at a
Speaker 2: post election where MSNBC and Sana has dropped off, and.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that they have just imploded.
Speaker 2: I think it's two parted. I think when you lose,
Speaker 2: you received right and you go into a hole. I mean,
Speaker 2: I have tons of liberal friends that are like, I
Speaker 2: just don't want to see the news right now, you know,
Speaker 2: like wake me up once he's inaugurated or something big happened.
Speaker 2: That's impossible. But you know, I don't know what Trump
Speaker 2: two point zero actually looks like. But everyone I think
Speaker 2: will get amped up again if they're you know, if
Speaker 2: the deportation force starts, Joe and Mika's audience is coming back,
Speaker 2: right like, they will want to be part of that.
Speaker 2: But I think there's fatigue and I think there's a feeling.
Speaker 2: And I get this from a lot of people that
Speaker 2: I know in my orbit who kind of tune out
Speaker 2: more conservative leaning media and really are part of the
Speaker 2: liberal bubble that they weren't not told an honest story
Speaker 2: about what was going on in this election, like poo
Speaker 2: pooing polls and interviews with people who you wouldn't expect
Speaker 2: to be leaning towards Trump or considering Trump, and being
Speaker 2: fed a narrative that was not reflective of what happened
Speaker 2: on November fifth, and I think it's really important as
Speaker 2: a media person to have an honest relationship with your viewers.
Speaker 2: I try to do it like I, you know, beating
Speaker 2: that drum. I wanted people to know Joe Biden has
Speaker 2: a ton of accomplishments and that he should be really
Speaker 2: proud of and that when he stands there and he
Speaker 2: talks about the good things that he's done for the country,
Speaker 2: that that's an important element of this. But at the
Speaker 2: same time to also say, this is a jump ball, right,
Speaker 2: there's a tiny polling error in either direction, you're going
Speaker 2: to have this result. And Nate Silver, who took a
Speaker 2: lot of flak for this, you know, in his model,
Speaker 2: the number one most likely outcome was what we saw
Speaker 2: that Trump gets all seven battlegrounds, and then just below it,
Speaker 2: do just a few percentage points, was that Kamala gets
Speaker 2: all seven battlegrounds.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: This was a run of the mill result. And I
Speaker 2: think that people who have been on a steady dip
Speaker 2: of left leaning media have a sense of betrayal in
Speaker 2: all of this because they were told he's hitler. You know,
Speaker 2: he's an authoritarian, We're going to get all of these
Speaker 2: Republicans that you know, supported Nikki Haley in the primary,
Speaker 2: but without really you know, getting into the fact that
Speaker 2: most people do go home right when you look at
Speaker 2: a full policy platform. It's very hard. I think of
Speaker 2: it in contrast, like what would it take for me
Speaker 2: to vote for a Republican? It take a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the question is Donald Trump is claiming
Speaker 1: a mandate, and as the ulster that I know that
Speaker 1: the numbers just don't add up to a so called mandate.
Speaker 1: What do your focks colleagues say when he repeatedly insists
Speaker 1: that he has been given carte blanche to do whatever
Speaker 1: he wants.
Speaker 2: They think it's Listen, it's a problem with the electoral
Speaker 2: college in the way that elections work in this country.
Speaker 2: But it is a rarity that a Republican wins the
Speaker 2: popular vote, right, you know, And he did do that
Speaker 2: by a tiny amount. I think it's like one point
Speaker 2: five percent now and it'll be I mean, it's certainly
Speaker 2: the lowest performance since two thousand, but I think historically speaking,
Speaker 2: it's like the combined with the electoral college and the
Speaker 2: popular vote, like the third worst performance for a winning president.
Speaker 2: That's not that exciting. Right, we're not talking about what
Speaker 2: Obama did or like a Reigan I was to say
Speaker 2: that president happened, right, Yeah, but it just in recent
Speaker 2: memory for people who are handicapping this, But yeah, they
Speaker 2: do feel like he has a mandate, he has the trifecta,
Speaker 2: he has control of everything. But you know, if if
Speaker 2: it was such a commanding win for the Trump agenda,
Speaker 2: the cotails would have been larger, and Democrats I think
Speaker 2: did really well in the Senate. I was sad to
Speaker 2: see Bob Casey lose his race in Pennsylvania and a
Speaker 2: little bit surprised by it, but you know, holding on
Speaker 2: in Nevada, winning Arizona, Tammy bald went in Wisconsin, Elisa
Speaker 2: Slockkin winning in Michigan, and on top of it, for
Speaker 2: these candidates to have figured out a way to manage
Speaker 2: the you know, I'll work with Donald Trump when I
Speaker 2: need to. Tammy balbinz aarreed releasing ads. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is what I did with Donald Trump when he
Speaker 2: was in office. We can do that again. So I
Speaker 2: always pushed back on it and not to diminish what
Speaker 2: he pulled off because I think it is a dramatic feed,
Speaker 2: especially because he took all these gen Z voters that
Speaker 2: I didn't expect would go over in those kinds of numbers.
Speaker 2: But I don't feel like he has some massive mandate.
Speaker 2: And you know, Speaker Johnson is going to have to
Speaker 2: talk to him about the hard truths. He has a
Speaker 2: one seat majority. What are you supposed to.
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Speaker 1: to ask you about the fact that some left leaning
Speaker 1: media talked about, you know, described him as hitler with Honestly, JD.
Speaker 1: Vance did the same before he had an epiphany and
Speaker 1: became a big fan of Donald Trump's and talked about
Speaker 1: his authoritarian tendencies. And you were saying that as if
Speaker 1: you were dismissing those claims. But I'm curious if you
Speaker 1: do think Donald Trump has a authoritarian tendencies and were
Speaker 1: people right to point that out.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think your strongest defense is always using the
Speaker 2: words of people who knew him. And so when you
Speaker 2: have quotes from Mark Milly and John Kelly talking about this,
Speaker 2: you amplify them. And I did on the five as well.
Speaker 2: I read them, I write, I take copious notes, I
Speaker 2: do a lot of prep. I read them out loud.
Speaker 2: I said, this isn't about me. But the reason that
Speaker 2: I think maybe you read what I was saying as
Speaker 2: being dismissive, is that that argument only tells part of
Speaker 2: the story of how people see Donald Trump, and that
Speaker 2: this came down to an incumbency election and an inflation election,
Speaker 2: which happened all over the world, and all the incumbents
Speaker 2: got thrown out right, and that people were thinking about
Speaker 2: their grocery costs and we're not following the trend line
Speaker 2: as closely as we are. Right. They weren't, like you know,
Speaker 2: Steve Rattner up there with all of his charts to say,
Speaker 2: which I love. I live off of it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I use all of this for my own data collection.
Speaker 2: But they weren't tracking it like that. They just have
Speaker 2: a memory of the past few years, not feeling that good.
Speaker 1: They don't care if they bridge they're driving over to
Speaker 1: get to the Kroger was the result of the infrastructure bill.
Speaker 1: While they don't know is their groceries or thirty percent
Speaker 1: higher than they were or.
Speaker 2: They know both of those things, and you have to pick.
Speaker 2: And for a lot of people this felt like a
Speaker 2: political sophie's choice for them, they didn't like either. Whether
Speaker 2: if Kamala had had more time they would have felt
Speaker 2: more comfortable with her. I think she ran a very
Speaker 2: good campaign for getting one hundred and seven days. I
Speaker 2: was not someone that thought a year in advance that
Speaker 2: Biden should have gotten out, But in retrospect, I think
Speaker 2: that's probably the case that we should have had a primary,
Speaker 2: and that there is a good chance that Kamala Harris
Speaker 2: would have won that primary and she would have been
Speaker 2: able to talk about her experience as vice president and
Speaker 2: gone ahead.
Speaker 1: But they had so much working against them, not only inflation,
Speaker 1: but they have the border crisis, and she never really
Speaker 1: could come up with a good explanation. No, And I've
Speaker 1: said for the fact, which I think is honestly very legitimate, Jessica,
Speaker 1: that there was a comprehensive immigration bill that took what
Speaker 1: eight months for very conservative Republicans.
Speaker 2: And Democrats Hamward and it's not an OLM Barter's guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Donald Trump said do not vote on this
Speaker 1: bill because he wanted to use it as a part
Speaker 1: of his campaign strategy.
Speaker 2: I think Donald Trump sucks, Like I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1: But why didn't say he sucks. I just said he
Speaker 1: wouldn't let them vote on the border. No.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm saying he sucks. I believe that. I
Speaker 2: think he's manipulative, he's underhanded, he's completely self interested. I
Speaker 2: worry he will run the country exactly in that vein,
Speaker 2: and I'm concerned about it. But on the immigration front,
Speaker 2: there was a tendency amongst Democrats, and especially Democrats were
Speaker 2: discussing the issue, so people who do interviews or are
Speaker 2: part of the media to minimize it. Over the first
Speaker 2: two and a half years, when there were a lot
Speaker 2: of people coming in here, and I thought that it
Speaker 2: was a stunt. You know, when they started bussing migrants,
Speaker 2: they scored a Mars vendors. Yeah, it was the smartest
Speaker 2: thing they ever did.
Speaker 1: Well. It's interesting because I have a friend who lives
Speaker 1: in Florida, and I said what did you think of
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott taking some of these immigrants
Speaker 1: and moving them to Northern States, And she said, I
Speaker 1: thought it was great because nobody really was paying attention
Speaker 1: before that. And I do think that this untold story
Speaker 1: was the strain on social services and communities, particularly along
Speaker 1: the border, this influx, huge influx of immigrants was having
Speaker 1: and I think the mainstream media, however you define that
Speaker 1: these days, kind of ignored that story to its peril.
Speaker 2: Not only but you could make a good argument that
Speaker 2: they were protecting Biden from this that it was like,
Speaker 2: I would rather talk about how we're inflation is coming
Speaker 2: down faster here than it is for anyone else in
Speaker 2: the G seven and all of these very good things
Speaker 2: that were actually happening, then deal with the crisis, which
Speaker 2: is an everyday horror show like Eagle Past. Texas cannot
Speaker 2: take ten thousand people a day, and it's wrong for
Speaker 2: us to ask them to do it, and Democrats like
Speaker 2: Mark Kelly, Henry Quayar screaming about it, and it led
Speaker 2: to a point where some of these border state democrats
Speaker 2: didn't want to be linked with the administration on this
Speaker 2: because they knew that it was being so poorly handled
Speaker 2: and that we didn't have a good solution. And I
Speaker 2: agree with you that comprehensive bill which James Langford wrote.
Speaker 2: It is one of the more with Chris Murphy, but
Speaker 2: James Langford is one of the more conservative people well
Speaker 2: in the Senate in a genuine way. This isn't fake
Speaker 2: right conservative populism. This is the real deal. But that
Speaker 2: still came three and a half years after this crisis
Speaker 2: really amped up. And the speed at which we've been
Speaker 2: able to cut down on border crossings, like because of
Speaker 2: the executive orders, and President Shinbaum of Mexico was touting
Speaker 2: this in her letter back to Donald Trump when he
Speaker 2: threatened the twenty five percent tariff on her, where he
Speaker 2: said border crossings down seventy five percent because of the
Speaker 2: work that we're doing in conjunction with the Biden administration.
Speaker 2: That's all well and good, but to the average voter,
Speaker 2: they're thinking, well, why didn't you do this before? If
Speaker 2: it was an executive order and you didn't actually need
Speaker 2: congressional approval to do it, why didn't you start with that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: The second Title forty two was lifted.
Speaker 1: Right, and their answer to every question about immigration was well, well,
Speaker 1: early in the administration they had a bill and they
Speaker 1: couldn't get any to do anything about it.
Speaker 2: We didn't think it was a big enough deal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the thing. And you're totally right about the social services.
Speaker 2: And I've spoken to a number of people who not
Speaker 2: only you know, have the daily experience that I do.
Speaker 2: I take the subway in and out of work every day,
Speaker 2: and probably one of the only people on camera that
Speaker 2: does that. And so I know what the subway is
Speaker 2: like now, and I grew up here in the city,
Speaker 2: and I know what the difference is between that experience.
Speaker 2: But when classrooms are filling up with kids who don't
Speaker 2: speak English, and you have community centers like all over
Speaker 2: you know, big cities like Boston, community centers that are
Speaker 2: built for underserved kids who need somewhere to go after school,
Speaker 2: and they're being closed down to be turned into migrant shelters,
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 1: Have hospitals that are overwhelmed, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: I even talked to Mark Thompson at one point and said,
Speaker 1: why aren't you covering this? And I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1: I also told him that I thought during the elee
Speaker 1: they should have bureaus all across the country in smaller
Speaker 1: towns and rural communities, so they could actually and I
Speaker 1: know that John what's John's last name? Who the white
Speaker 1: hair guy who does the map, John King, who I
Speaker 1: really like. Sorry, John, I forgot your name for a second.
Speaker 1: I know he went out and talked to real people,
Speaker 1: but I feel like they could have been much more
Speaker 1: embedded in real communities talking to people about, you know,
Speaker 1: all kinds of issues that I think surfaced during this election.
Speaker 1: You know, so it was largely an immigration and inflation election,
Speaker 1: But I'm curious if you think sexism also played a
Speaker 1: role in it. Because I went to a doctor and
Speaker 1: I said, gosh, I think Donald Trump may win this election.
Speaker 1: She said, well, we have two terrible choices. She just
Speaker 1: doesn't have the stature to deal with world leaders. And
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that was a female doctor. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you think that sexism is still an
Speaker 1: albatross around the neck of many of these female candidates,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to the highest office in the land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely do. I think that there are considerations
Speaker 2: that go into the life of a professional woman on
Speaker 2: any level that men never think about. Like it was
Speaker 2: very cute when Doug M Hoff at the DNC said,
Speaker 2: you know, I like her laugh, but we don't care
Speaker 2: about men's laughs, right, and we rarely notice what they're wearing. Right.
Speaker 2: And I know everything. I know every pantsuit that Hillary wore,
Speaker 2: you know, and I know about all of Kamala's fashion
Speaker 2: choices and all of it.
Speaker 1: Y made I think an intentional decision to be even
Speaker 1: though they were beautiful Chloe suits, apparently to be as
Speaker 1: nondescript as possibly very understated. Right.
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure you remember when Trump went
Speaker 2: after Nikki Haley saying her dress was ugly. You know,
Speaker 2: Nikki Haley purposely leaned into her femininity in a way
Speaker 2: the Democratic candidates don't typically. I think the only skirt
Speaker 2: Kamala one was when she went to Sunday Church, or
Speaker 2: when she went to Sunday Church, which is what to
Speaker 2: a Black church, which is what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2: I am told.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: I think it is part of it, just in what
Speaker 2: people take in about the aesthetics. But if we're being
Speaker 2: honest and they see no reason not to be, you know,
Speaker 2: the first couple of years of the Biden administration, I
Speaker 2: don't think she performed that well in public arenas, and
Speaker 2: that people had that as their perception of her. There
Speaker 2: was this moment she was sent to the Munich Security Conference,
Speaker 2: probably about two years ago, a year and a half,
Speaker 2: two years ago, and she gave I think one of
Speaker 2: the best defenses of natter support of Zelenski and the
Speaker 2: Ukrainian people, of Western values, democracy and going after totalitarians
Speaker 2: like Putin, and she got praise across the political spectrum
Speaker 2: for it. One of those moments where the five is not,
Speaker 2: you know, right, not adversarial, where even Janine is like,
Speaker 2: that was a good speech, That's what we're about here,
Speaker 2: and that moment and ensuing moments where I think she
Speaker 2: did well. I think especially in talking about the Dabbs
Speaker 2: decision and the implications of that, she did a great job.
Speaker 2: But those moments came too late, and I don't know
Speaker 2: the inner workings of whether she was not amplified on
Speaker 2: purpose so that it was really Biden's administration or I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't think
Speaker 1: she was. She was not nurtured, and I don't think
Speaker 1: she was was showcased in any way. And part of
Speaker 1: it I wondered if Joe Biden's discomfort and being in
Speaker 1: spontane TuS media situations. They didn't want to then prop
Speaker 1: her up for fear that she would overshadow him.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I actually hadn't heard that you can use that.
Speaker 2: I'm taking you I'm gonna be like my pal Katie
Speaker 2: told me this.
Speaker 1: I think you know, That's what I wondered. Well.
Speaker 2: Also, once as this autopsy is being written about what happened,
Speaker 2: and you realize just how small Biden's circle is, smaller
Speaker 2: than even presidents that have small circles like we're talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, Mike Donald and say Anita done and Anita done,
Speaker 2: Jill and Hunter. Essentially, are you know, making all of
Speaker 2: these decisions like dropping out of the race, pardoning Hunter?
Speaker 2: We don't know. I mean, it could be one person's feeling.
Speaker 1: That will be interesting to find average to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And there's, you know, part
Speaker 2: of me who feels as someone who was very defensive
Speaker 2: of the administration, not just for patty political reasons, but
Speaker 2: because I genuinely believed in what we were doing and
Speaker 2: things that we've created a recovery that's unprecedented.
Speaker 1: Why do you think Biden gets so little credit for
Speaker 1: the things he has achieved. Is it all about, you know,
Speaker 1: the aesthetics of his ability to communicate, to use the
Speaker 1: bully pulpit properly, because I think with I saw someone
Speaker 1: reeling against the part and saying this, will you know this?
Speaker 1: Maybe it was James Carville that he's going to be
Speaker 1: the have the lowest approval rating of any president in
Speaker 1: history and it Do you think it's a communications problem?
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a perception problem. Do you think
Speaker 1: there are things that are actually you know, legitimate to criticize?
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think is keeping him from
Speaker 1: from getting credit for anything? Really?
Speaker 2: I think that he proved himself to not be as
Speaker 2: much of the empathizer in chief as we thought that
Speaker 2: he was. Like in the twenty twenty primary, I thought
Speaker 2: he did that really really well, where people thought, this
Speaker 2: is a guy who's on our side, this is a
Speaker 2: guy who hasn't jumped the shark. He's not saying, you know,
Speaker 2: health insurance for everyone who's here undocumented, we should have
Speaker 2: open borders.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He seemed like the common sense right candidate him and
Speaker 2: like Amy klobashar right, who I love and can't get
Speaker 2: out of a primary, but would be an amazing president
Speaker 2: for sure. And it is a communications problem. I think
Speaker 2: he wasn't able to toe the line of being able
Speaker 2: to speak highly of what they were doing and to
Speaker 2: also say, I know it's not enough right now, I
Speaker 2: know what your life looks like.
Speaker 1: Right He couldn't really feel their pain like Bill Clinton did.
Speaker 1: No well, and I wonder why no, because I think
Speaker 1: he genuinely does. I think he's an incredibly rithetic.
Speaker 2: Frankly about being destroyed on conservative media constantly and his
Speaker 2: accomplishments being belittled and people talking down about him. I mean,
Speaker 2: this guy is run for president three times. He obviously
Speaker 2: believes that he should be there and that he has
Speaker 2: earned a level of respect that he did not feel
Speaker 2: that he was getting for being able to do these things,
Speaker 2: for being able to work with conservatives when he needed
Speaker 2: to to, you know, make sure that we have investments
Speaker 2: like the Chips and Science Act. What happened. It was
Speaker 2: a skinny version of the bill, but the Inflation Reduction Act,
Speaker 2: which a lot of people still mistakenly say was what
Speaker 2: spiked inflation, and that's absolutely not true.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've read enough stuff that's that at
Speaker 1: least it might have contributed. I'm no economist, Jessica, but
Speaker 1: you know, an influx of that much money, there are
Speaker 1: some that argue that really wasn't helpful to the economy
Speaker 1: met but again, an economists.
Speaker 2: Justin Wolfers, who worked in the Bomba administration and is
Speaker 2: a great liberal economist. What I'm saying is that when
Speaker 2: you look at where the inflation numbers are now, there
Speaker 2: was a temporary pain that was unsustainable for people, but
Speaker 2: they were looking at it on a long curve and
Speaker 2: it seems to have come back down to a palatable level.
Speaker 2: But people went and voted feeling like inflation was fifteen
Speaker 2: percent and not that it was two or three.
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Do
Speaker 1: you think historically that Joe Biden will be considered a
Speaker 1: better president than he's believed to be at this moment
Speaker 1: in time?
Speaker 2: For his sake, I think, unfortunately, the decisions that he
Speaker 2: made around what to do in terms of running and
Speaker 2: kind of more social you know, like the Hunter pardon
Speaker 2: or and whatever is to come. I think if he
Speaker 2: goes around blanket pardoning anyone involved with the January sixth
Speaker 2: Committee or things like that, it'll get even worse.
Speaker 1: For sort of those preemptive parties. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: Listen but for you, listen to that interview on Meet
Speaker 1: the Press with Donald Trump basically saying Liz Cheney deserves
Speaker 1: to be in prison any top sale I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Mean Cashpitel has an enemy's list that he published in
Speaker 2: his book, So why would that be so bad to
Speaker 2: But what are you partning them for?
Speaker 1: Well, I think that a lot of people don't want
Speaker 1: him to pardon them because it's an admission they did
Speaker 1: something wrong when they were actually just holding people.
Speaker 2: Aunt has even said, don't yeah, s that's a terrible
Speaker 2: press and for what we weren't on the wrong side
Speaker 2: of the law. And I'm glad that he has faith
Speaker 2: in the system that it'll protect them. I'm not so
Speaker 2: sure if you get through all of these confirmations. And
Speaker 2: Pam Bondi is obviously better than Matt Gates, but she will.
Speaker 1: Say not that much she is. I don't think he's
Speaker 1: like sexually assaulted underage girls. But as far as we know,
Speaker 1: she did not do that.
Speaker 2: But no, she you know, she was on the election
Speaker 2: denihilism tour with a lot of these lawyers and was out.
Speaker 2: I think she gave a press conference in Philadelphia talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, all the stolen votes and all of that,
Speaker 2: and none of that is good. But you have to
Speaker 2: reassess your standards, I think for what he's doing, with
Speaker 2: a few exceptions in terms of foreign policy, I am
Speaker 2: very happy.
Speaker 1: Yes, a lot of people are.
Speaker 2: I think I'm friends with Mike Walt, who's going to
Speaker 2: be the National Security Advisor.
Speaker 1: I think people think he's fine. I think they think
Speaker 1: Rubio is fine. It's these other people, like Fox's own
Speaker 1: Pete Hegseeth And I'm curious how you feel that Fox
Speaker 1: pretty much ignores the story. They invite his mother on
Speaker 1: Fox and Friends. But when it comes to all these
Speaker 1: allegations that are pretty serious, honestly, from I mean from
Speaker 1: drinking to sexually assaulting women, to driving an organization into
Speaker 1: the ground, to all kinds of things, Fox kind of
Speaker 1: ignores them.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't. I mean, at least in the last
Speaker 2: few days, every time that I look up at a
Speaker 2: screen when I'm in the makeup chair, Pete is on
Speaker 2: it and there's a gaggle around him and they're covering it.
Speaker 2: I think the first mention was Chad Program, who's a
Speaker 2: great reporter of ours, and it was on Brettbaer's show,
Speaker 2: The Straight News Show, and it was mentioned there. And
Speaker 2: there has been ensuing coverage.
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, I do and I don't.
Speaker 1: It's ongoing. I you're not running Fox shows. I'm not
Speaker 1: asking you to defend defend the editorial decisions. But it
Speaker 1: just does seem weird to me. I take your point.
Speaker 1: I I no, he loosely, you know, have been on
Speaker 1: with him. He's always been very pleasant to me. I
Speaker 1: think the alleysians are serious, and you see people like
Speaker 1: Joni Ernst who's obviously taking them seriously. And I think
Speaker 1: now she's kind of switched and said that she had
Speaker 1: a I'm paraphrasing, you know, a great conversations. He continues
Speaker 1: to support his nomination.
Speaker 2: I think that's saying that someone should get to go
Speaker 2: before the committee isn't the same thing as saying this
Speaker 2: is okay. And there is a very strong argument to
Speaker 2: be made that a president who certainly in the mind
Speaker 2: of Republicans, has a big mandate, should get to have
Speaker 2: his nominees come through, like someone like Tom Cotton released
Speaker 2: a statement saying, I expect that they will get their
Speaker 2: hearings and that they will get confirmed. And he's one
Speaker 2: who's a complete neo KHN like normal hawk right, like
Speaker 2: a Mitch McConnell, but younger. And he's even saying that,
Speaker 2: And I think.
Speaker 1: That I think we haven't really heard from Susan Collins
Speaker 1: or Lisa Murkowski and they only need write one Republican
Speaker 1: No they need.
Speaker 2: They'll need how many three? So because Jadie Vance will
Speaker 2: be you can vote? So yeah, would I love it
Speaker 2: if Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski just stood up and
Speaker 2: said no to seventy five percent or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think there are there are different threat levels that
Speaker 2: each of them are posing. And I hate that someone
Speaker 2: who I think is as dangerous as like an RFK
Speaker 2: Junior getting as the head of HHS is now like
Speaker 2: a shrug to people because they feel a guy have
Speaker 2: bigger fish to fry here, like right, Tulca Gabbert is interesting.
Speaker 1: I know that you said something about Tulsea Cabbard. You
Speaker 1: said that I guess what did you say about her?
Speaker 1: That she was sort of your hair on fire? Pick? Oh,
Speaker 1: top anxiety pick yeah.
Speaker 2: Peak anxiousness about Telsea Gabbard. You know, it's been interesting
Speaker 2: because I feel like she hasn't gotten a lot of intention.
Speaker 2: But then there was a story that came out yesterday
Speaker 2: about the meetings that she's been having with senators and
Speaker 2: that apparently it's not going well. So if it's just
Speaker 2: undercovered and she ends up being not confirmed, fine by me.
Speaker 2: I don't need to hear about it all the time.
Speaker 2: But you know, watching the scenes out of Syria the
Speaker 2: past few days and thinking back to her defense of Assad,
Speaker 2: which is the original I think that might be part
Speaker 2: of that was probably from my podcast. But I spoke
Speaker 2: about her on The Five a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: and I said, I am not in the business of
Speaker 2: accusing someone of being a Russian asset. That is very serious,
Speaker 2: and it got us in a whole host of trouble
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen about Trump, and you know that backfired.
Speaker 2: But they like her too much, and they talk about
Speaker 2: her on Russian state TV, and I think a commentator
Speaker 2: and even said recently like she's the only good one
Speaker 2: left in this, you know, the only one that guess us,
Speaker 2: because Marco Rubio doesn't feel that way about Putin or
Speaker 2: Asad and Mike Waltz certainly doesn't. So Tolci is very
Speaker 2: concerning to me. But I don't know, Like Bernie Sanders
Speaker 2: has said that he might support her and RFK Junior,
Speaker 2: which seems like a complete betrayal of a lot of
Speaker 2: his beliefs or what I thought that they were. But
Speaker 2: I don't know. I believe more in Lisa Murkowski than
Speaker 2: I do Susan Collins. You know, she's always deeply disturbed
Speaker 2: by things, and then you know, votes for them. So
Speaker 2: it's going to be a mess. It's gonna be good
Speaker 2: TV programming.
Speaker 1: Though, definitely, definitely. We're almost out of time. But I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you just a couple of questions in
Speaker 1: closing one. You know, there's so much handwringing and introspection
Speaker 1: about what the Democratic Party needs to do now, and
Speaker 1: Chris Murphy, who I'm interviewing this afternoon, I think they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: that they need to be more populist and come up
Speaker 1: with really a different strategy. I mean, as somebody who's
Speaker 1: been steeped in democratic politics, for a long time. What
Speaker 1: advice would you give the party.
Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to do it if you're not naturally
Speaker 2: prone to be able to but speaking like a normal
Speaker 2: human is a good one. And rewiring. I mean, I've
Speaker 2: heard a lot of people and there's a huge rise
Speaker 2: in the number of folks who identify with a third party, right,
Speaker 2: who are just like I'm an independent, And then it's
Speaker 2: usually an issue like being pro choice or something that
Speaker 2: sways you in one direction or the other. But I
Speaker 2: would love it if we could kind of strip the
Speaker 2: title Democratic Party off of it and just common sense party.
Speaker 2: What does your heart tell you about X policy or
Speaker 2: exposition that you might be taking? And I think that
Speaker 2: that would serve us a lot better. We certainly wouldn't
Speaker 2: have gotten into this mess with you know. The ad
Speaker 2: that had the most impact on the election was the
Speaker 2: They Them You ad with Charlemagne in it, and it
Speaker 2: was an ad about trans issues, but it was mostly
Speaker 2: an economic ad, right. It was basically saying, the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party is taking your cash and putting it towards something outlandish, right,
Speaker 2: that no one thinks about, that affects one person every
Speaker 2: five years, maybe, right, the sex changes for undocumented people
Speaker 2: in jail. That is the smallest subcategory you could probably
Speaker 2: ever come up with.
Speaker 1: And I think that's interesting, But you think it really
Speaker 1: translated to a feeling of being economically ripped off by government.
Speaker 2: This is where your dollars are going. They do it
Speaker 2: about migrants, they do it about foreign policy. That's how
Speaker 2: they've turned people against the idea of giving money to
Speaker 2: your brain and in some cases to Israel. I mean,
Speaker 2: Jade Vance even voted against the Israel funding package, which
Speaker 2: I know he's on board now that you know there's
Speaker 2: a new sheriff in town, and he's part of that
Speaker 2: ticket obviously. But I think if you just let yourself
Speaker 2: be governed by your gut more than your party affiliation,
Speaker 2: that we would do better. Because a lot of these
Speaker 2: people who were interviewed, and I'm sure you saw some
Speaker 2: of these interviews as well, like the former Democrat who
Speaker 2: is a prison guard who was interviewed about why he
Speaker 2: had voted Hillary Biden Trump, and he said, the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party doesn't like people like me. Or the woman who
Speaker 2: was in a focus group who said, they've asked, you know,
Speaker 2: what words would you use to describe the two parties?
Speaker 2: And she said the GOP was crazy and the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party was preachy, and she said, preachy doesn't work for me.
Speaker 2: I can handle a lunatic, then I can handle a
Speaker 2: party that makes me feel bad about myself. Right, And
Speaker 2: we made a lot of people feel bad about themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to know someone who's covering the Trump
Speaker 1: campaign and she said, I said, what is you know,
Speaker 1: you go to a lot of these rallies. What do
Speaker 1: you think is really motivating? And she said the lefty
Speaker 1: lecture culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which frankly is me. I mean a lot of
Speaker 2: the criticism that I get from the right, and you know,
Speaker 2: I think now I'm just part of the ecosystem and
Speaker 2: they've come to accept me. But you know, I have
Speaker 2: a PhD. I wears you went to the school shuring
Speaker 2: you about your your I went to Brent Maar, grew
Speaker 2: up in New York City, went to private school, all
Speaker 2: of it like limousine liberal to the max. And I
Speaker 2: sit up there and sometimes go off for you know,
Speaker 2: a full minute at a time about Biden's accomplishments. I
Speaker 2: did it just yesterday. I said, you know, we were
Speaker 2: talking about what his legacy would be, and my colleague,
Speaker 2: we're crapping on him, and I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: his legacy is the best recovery in the G seven.
Speaker 2: That's what his legacy is. And what did they say
Speaker 2: to that? Jesse was like, we're moving on. You know,
Speaker 2: I take all of those as a w when they
Speaker 2: just say moving on. But I would like to be
Speaker 2: more common sense about things. I would like to speak
Speaker 2: in plainer language.
Speaker 1: Well, I know you do a podcast with Scott Galloway
Speaker 1: called Regene Moderates, and there was a time when being
Speaker 1: a moderate was so out of fashion. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if you think, as a result of this election
Speaker 1: that suddenly we're going to say, maybe it's not so
Speaker 1: bad to be moderate. But how do you fight sort
Speaker 1: of extreme conservativism, which it has been pulled over to
Speaker 1: the right with moderation because it seems like the whole
Speaker 1: idea is to get people all worked up right, and
Speaker 1: moderation isn't very sexy. Jessica, No, but I think that
Speaker 1: if the number one thing that people took away from
Speaker 1: Kamala's campaign, which was she's too left for me, And
Speaker 1: part of that was they did a great job at
Speaker 1: amplifying clips from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty and that
Speaker 1: Kamala didn't want to deal with them, right, and she
Speaker 1: net down and say like she never really answered that
Speaker 1: those questions very well. Well.
Speaker 2: Obviously the view question from Sunny Houston that was the
Speaker 2: nuclear explosion, like how are you different from Biden? And
Speaker 2: I saw you speaking about it where you're like, how
Speaker 2: do you want to have an answer to that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And Biden doesn't seem to me to be someone who
Speaker 2: would be aggravated if you said, respectfully, we did a
Speaker 2: lot of great things, but this is what a Kamala
Speaker 2: Harris presidency does.
Speaker 1: Definitely, we don't know, we don't know how. No, but
Speaker 1: he would have responded to that.
Speaker 2: But what's he going to do to her?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I agree.
Speaker 1: I think she went too out of her way not
Speaker 1: to hurt his feelings.
Speaker 2: And we also have to think about not only winning
Speaker 2: back the working class voters, but there are moderate Republicans
Speaker 2: and centrists that do not want to go home to
Speaker 2: the Republican Party. Even if the top of the ticket
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight, it shouldn't be Donald Trump. God
Speaker 2: knows what he'll do, but let's say it's some JD
Speaker 2: Vance or other. They want to be part of a
Speaker 2: pro democracy party, and we are that, and we have
Speaker 2: to be reasonable to be able to integrate them and
Speaker 2: make it easy for the liz Cheneys of the world
Speaker 2: to want to be part of us, not just when
Speaker 2: there's someone with you know, authoritarian tendencies. I think to
Speaker 2: be you know, fair about it at the top of
Speaker 2: the ticket, but when they're running a normal Republican to
Speaker 2: just say, actually, what the Democrats are selling resonates with me,
Speaker 2: and they're better for the economy, and they respect people's
Speaker 2: personal liberties and they're not insane.
Speaker 1: You know. It seems to me that you are a
Speaker 1: role model for people on how to get out of
Speaker 1: their bubbles, how to have conversations with people respectfully, with compassion.
Speaker 2: I'm writing a book about it.
Speaker 1: Well you should because and I'd love to saying.
Speaker 2: Your copy it will be down the line. It takes
Speaker 2: a lotting a book. I did not know about the
Speaker 2: schedules of these things.
Speaker 1: Yes it does. I can test to that. But I
Speaker 1: really think that you would have a lot to say
Speaker 1: about respecting people, having conversations, meeting people where they are,
Speaker 1: and not ending with a food fight at the holiday
Speaker 1: dinner table, because I think we really need that if
Speaker 1: we're going to solve some of the thorniest issues that
Speaker 1: are facing our country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so. And I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I take it really seriously. And I know that also
Speaker 2: for a lot of people around this country, I'm the
Speaker 2: only Democrat that they might know in their lives, right
Speaker 2: because there are people that are siloed, and I think
Speaker 2: it's so important to represent the values of this party
Speaker 2: that I care deeply about in a sane and approachable
Speaker 2: way where you know, they can't write me off as
Speaker 2: someone that's lost their mind or someone who can't say
Speaker 2: something that's obvious. And obviously I have my moments, you know,
Speaker 2: where I am over my skis as far as they're concerned.
Speaker 2: But generally speaking, I think if you you know, had
Speaker 2: my colleagues on, they would all say, I'm just like
Speaker 2: a pretty moderate rational Democrat.
Speaker 1: Do all ever like have dinner, go out for drinks?
Speaker 2: So well, the it's I go out with Jesse Waters's
Speaker 2: wife on my own, you know, Janine. I've recycled the
Speaker 2: story now, but like Janine who has a grandson around
Speaker 2: the same age as my oldest who turns three today,
Speaker 2: Happy birthday, Cleo. Got me baby formula when there was
Speaker 2: no baby formula. I don't she knew a guy. I
Speaker 2: don't ask questions when Janine says I know somebody I
Speaker 2: can get you that. But like, there it is. It
Speaker 2: is genuinely the messed up family that you see on TV.
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate that and the opportunity to get
Speaker 2: to talk. I talked to four point three million people
Speaker 2: a day about what Democrats are doing right or what
Speaker 2: frankly translating the perception that they've gotten through people who
Speaker 2: are not being honest brokers with them, or a communication
Speaker 2: system for the party that I think really failed, you know,
Speaker 2: and I hate having to start a sentence with like
Speaker 2: I would have said it this way. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: not auditioning to be press secretary or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but you know, you know what that's like where you're like,
Speaker 2: that's actually not helpful. It's not helpful, and it's not
Speaker 2: the truth. It's not what the policy actually does, it's
Speaker 2: not what happened at X event.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, definitely, Well I could talk to you
Speaker 1: for hours. Yeah, but thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Thank you for what you do every
Speaker 1: other day. I guess on follow me a week and
Speaker 1: I feel like you should probably have your own show
Speaker 1: where you talk one on one which shy call Suzanne Scott.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Great? Do I get to get percent?
Speaker 2: I mean, see is going to fight you for it?
Speaker 2: But yeah, great work. Be with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jessica.
Speaker 2: This is great.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,
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Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,
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Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,
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Speaker 2: Into it.
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