WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 109 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.559 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.880 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.840 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.639 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:28.920 you can make your own decisions, all. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.600 Right, Welcome to it could happen here a podcast about 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.920 things falling apart and also sometimes about how things have 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.800 been falling apart for a while now. And today we're 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:45.040 going to talk about how things were also bad in 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.080 falling apart in the two thousands, which a profoundly cursed 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:52.519 time period. And specifically we're going to talk about I 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.040 think a part of the anti war movement that does 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.440 not get much attention, which is the port militarization resistance 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.760 that happened and sort of two thousand and six, two 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.280 thousand and seven, and with us today to talk about 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.440 this is two people who were part of this movement. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:14.640 If Juliana Neuhauser, Hello, hello, and Brendan Maslaska's done, Yeah, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.440 both of whom were organizers and activists while this was 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.600 going on. Yeah, I think, thank you, thank you both 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:22.160 for being here. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.600 Yeah, thanks for having us so. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.560 Yeah, as I was saying a bit in the intro, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.319 I think that this is a part of the anti 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.600 war movement that is not very well known. I think 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.160 I think a lot of people know about the initial 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.480 stuff that happened in two thousand and three, and people might 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.280 know about some of the stuff that was happening against 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.039 the war in Afghanistan, like right when it started, but 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.840 I don't think most people know that it like you know, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.840 even after a two thousand and three sort doesn't work, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.200 that it continues, and then it continues sort of informs 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.520 that are that are very interesting, and so I guess 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.640 I want you to to to start out, I want 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:04.440 to ask how we sort of got from the early 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.480 part of the anti war movement into this, and how 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:07.440 you she got involved. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.960 I would say that there's this narrative about the movement 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.760 against the word Iraq, that there is the largest protests 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.160 in human history, at least at that point. I don't 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.120 know if it's still true against the invasion, and then 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.000 it didn't work, and everyone kind of went. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.839 Home and ended there. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:32.079 And to a certain extent that's true. But like you said, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.840 the people that didn't go home went an interesting direction. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:42.160 And so at the time there were direct action was 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:47.959 not as acceptable as it is now. This movement was 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:54.200 largely dominated either by big liberal coalitions or PSL front 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.239 groups that were basically indistinguishable in what they actually did, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.919 which was basically nothing and in the best of cases 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.720 and then the worst of cases kind of insurgency. But 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:14.119 then there were small groups of people that at when 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.840 we saw that it didn't work, and we saw that 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:22.000 these giant, peaceful marches from one part of town to another, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.400 or voting for John Carey or whatever, it didn't work, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.239 that we started to look for other options. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.200 Yeah, and you know, I got involved, you know, i'd 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.000 say with the anti war movement. That idea of how 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.560 wars unjust was really taught to me from a very 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.280 young age. I mean, my parents were, you know, children 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.400 of the sixties, and they had family members fighting in 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.320 Vietnam and you know, friends dying in Vietnam, and we're 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.800 against the protests back then. So I grew up here 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.360 in the stories and of course stories from family members, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.680 particularly one of my grandfathers, both of them who were 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.040 veterans in World War Two. One of them was a 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.520 marine in the you know, in the Pacific Theater, and 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.840 still into his seventies, eighties and nineties until his final days, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.440 was just dealing with horrific PTSD and had always taught 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.280 me from young age never to get involved. So I, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.960 you know, and I remember when when the very clearly, 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.600 you know, I'm sure it's on everyone's minds now, and 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.200 when the invasion of Afghanistan started, when the invasion of 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:37.040 I Rock started, I was at that massive demonstration in Washington, 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.920 d C. That Juliana just mentioned, and I ended up. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.480 I'm from Utica, New York. I went to a rural 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.520 high school just outside of Utica, you know, russ Bell 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.440 generally speaking, impoverished and also very conservative area of New York. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.320 And you know, I had the recruiters bothering me, military 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:05.159 recruiters in high school, recruiting my friends, and they were 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.480 just everywhere in the hallways. So it was very present 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.159 with me when I was younger. I moved out to Olympia, Washington, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.840 two thousand and six, and that's one a new student 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.560 activist group, Students for Democratic Society was launched. That's how 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.880 Julianna and I first met. We were both in separate 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.520 chapters of that new organization in the Pacific Northwest, and 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:36.640 the protests started just a few months after I moved 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.280 out there in Olympia in two thousand and six. 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.360 So wait declared for this or second because I've never 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.400 quite been clear in this history. So there was a 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.120 second SD, like Students for Democratic Society that was like 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.960 unrelated to the first one. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.960 Born briefly at the end of the bushop Master. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.200 That explains a lot of things that are you. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.520 Baffling, We're not that old. Yeah, we're definitely in the 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.120 in the second you know, the rebirth of it, So 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.320 you know, I think it took on some things in spirit, 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.880 you know, but also was i'd say different in many ways, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.280 and it was very active to me at least, it 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.440 was very exciting to be a member of the New 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.440 STS because they're over a dozen chapters in the Pacific Northwest, 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.920 and it was a great way to connect with young 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:28.760 activists all over the US. 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.520 So SDS is emerging in this time period. One of 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.719 the other things I was interested about is something something 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.200 you were talking about in the early part of this, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.520 which has to do with the way that these giant 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.720 both the sort of answer coalition PSL Frank Group and 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.480 I guess the ISO was still around back then coalitions 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:52.040 work versus how like anything else worked on. So was 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.320 was SDS sort of like consciously set up and in 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:56.640 opposition to those groups? 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.800 I don't think it was conscious, but there was just 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.720 like I mean these days, I mean, like there's a 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.400 lot of controversy around PSL with like anarchist versus tanky politics. 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.000 None of that mattered at that time, Like, none of 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.240 that mattered. The only thing that mattered was the answer, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:16.520 which was the PSL Front Group was completely fucking useless. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:23.920 Like they completely indistinguishable from any peace police liberal Democratic 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.400 Front group. There was literally no difference, just in terms 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.800 of their esthetics maybe like is there a donkey or 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.440 a hammer and sickle on something. That's the only difference 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.480 we saw. So I don't I don't think there was. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:41.720 It wasn't There wasn't like a conscious like political opposite 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.720 attention to it. It was just like they're not doing anything, 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.679 and so we had to look in another direction. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.240 Actually, you know, it's hard to keep track of the 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.280 alphabet soup of authoritary communist groups at times. But this 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.240 was actually answer for those who don't recall, it was 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.560 a front group for the Workers World Party the w which, yeah, 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.960 I mean it's it's hard to keep track, right, Yeah, 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:07.560 it's the same thing, like. 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:09.920 I think, so okay, So for people who are sort 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.120 of unaware of this, there's a network of connected but 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:17.800 sometimes feuding like weird stalinist cults that kind of kind 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.840 of like they hold on through like the set of 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.200 the eighties and nineties and they start sort of rebuilding 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.280 again around the anti war movements in that period. That 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.680 that's the PSL's the WOP. That's answer like, and I 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.679 think that's like most like modern anti war groups are 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:37.040 also still these people, which is incredibly depressing. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:37.240 Something. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.120 Want to talk a bit about it towards the end 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.800 of this, but yeah, just for people who have not 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.320 spent like the last half decade the in the trenches 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:52.600 of extremely weird anti war politics. So yeah, so I 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:57.240 think we should get into how the sort of the 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.959 first action starts in a limb. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.439 Yeah. So, and there were actually a couple actions that 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.240 happened in the year preceding that, you know, before I 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.400 moved out to Olympia in two thousand and six. It 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:18.040 was not yet under the banner of PMR Port Militarization Resistance. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:24.280 That was a name that was officially coined in you know, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.079 in May and June of two thousand and six. And 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.120 so just to give you an idea, Olympias it's a 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.480 college town, or at the Evergreen State College is there. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.120 It's also the capital of Washington State, so you have 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.880 that going on. It's also a military town. It's a 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.559 little over twenty miles south of what we called Fort Lewis. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:48.280 It's now called JBLM j BLUM or Joint Base Lewis McCord. 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.680 It's an Army and Air Force base. Now it's one base. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:53.920 So you had all these you know, different kind of 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.960 elements in you know, in tandem in that town and 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.400 the public port. The Port of Olympia is one of 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.400 about seventy or so public ports in the state of Washington, 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.360 some of which are I mean, they're used for all 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.720 kinds of things, you know, for our commercial, private industry, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:18.480 but also the military and the US government. So, you know, 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.320 I heard from someone I don't even remember who that 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.840 the military was sending a ship to the Port of 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.760 Olympia in late May of two thousand and six, and 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.440 this happened for ten or so days, and it was 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.280 just kind of a natural instinct for a whole bunch 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.079 of us to go down to the Port of Olympia. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.960 It was the war machine in our backyard, and the 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.080 idea was to just block the vehicles. It started out 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.400 with just like less than ten people, a number of 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:57.040 folks getting arrested, and that very rapidly culminated into larger 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:02.680 protests every single day, an act of blockades people those 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.320 of us like Julian and myself and other folks using 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.800 civil disobedience or what we preferred to call civil resistance 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.839 to try and stop or at the very le slow 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.880 down these striker vehicles and to give folks an idea 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.480 of what a striker vehicle is. You can look it 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.720 up online, but it's kind of halfway between. You know, 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.200 a tank in a hum vy doesn't have the slacks 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.800 you know that a tank would have. It's you know. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.600 And they were being used in both Iraq and Afghanistan 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.640 for raids of residential areas. They were really on the 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:39.280 front lines of the war in both those countries, and 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:40.640 that's what we were trying to stop. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.240 I only got involved later because I wasn't living in 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.199 Olympia at the time. I was in another STS chapter, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.760 but my roommate was from Olympia and he had been 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:55.959 involved in that first round of protests in Olympia before 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.920 moving up to Balingham. Yeah, and so like hearing his story, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.679 it's got me very excited because just like, finally someone's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.480 someone's doing something like someone's they're not. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.120 Just like. 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:16.040 It's like everything else was just so liberal, like whether 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.760 it's marching from one place to another or writing to 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.680 your congress people or occupying their office. It was like 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.840 asking someone else to do something which you knew from 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.840 the beginning they were never going to do. Yeah, and 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:34.240 finally this is finally someone was like actually getting into it. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.920 I think the first one of the things that happened 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:47.520 here was that they started to avoid that there's there's 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.240 kind of a geographical thing that I think for people 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:55.800 who either don't know was Washington or because they're normal 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.440 people don't know like the port. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.760 Areas of these news very. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.240 Well, because it's like like unless you're a long shoreman, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.600 like why would you go down to like the port 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:13.400 of Tacoma. Yeah, yeah, but uh, they kept moving it 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:20.199 around because Olympia is also not very big and so 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.760 it's there's really only two roads into the port, which 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.360 is very small, and so it was it's very easy 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:33.400 to block it. And so then I think the first 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:38.080 time that I got involved was in two thousands seven 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.480 when they had moved it because they kept moving it 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.120 around to try and switch things up and. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.480 Wait before they're they're the ship around. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.960 Is No, it's like they had to make a military shipment. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:57.400 They would It's like like once the ship wasn't the port, 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.319 they would just have to go through with it. Then 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.679 you know, it's like every every six months or so, 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.400 they had to make another military shipment and they would 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.440 change the port usually each time to try and let 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.840 basically to avoid us. It doesn't seem like this is 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.680 like normal past. Yeah. The first time I had gone 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.680 down was in the Coma, which is a much much 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.480 much more industrialized port than Olympia. It's you know, it's 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.040 like a big port, more normal port, I guess, And 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.560 that one was honestly pretty crazy because you're just trapped 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:39.120 in this giant industrial maze basically at the mercy of 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.760 the riot cops. The best success we had was definitely 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:47.840 at the Port of Olympia. I think the in two 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.720 thousand and seven in Olympia was definitely and it's like 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:58.040 the glory moment, which was when people were able to 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.240 on and off like actually hold the port and control 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:04.520 it in the a An exits. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.880 Yeah, and I want to, you know, just emphasize that 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.040 like the one the military changing their approach right to 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.840 avoid us so jumping from port to port with these 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.360 different shipments. They actually went so far because we were 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.240 so successful as a movement in the Pacific Northwest to 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:27.120 ship striker vehicles by rail out of the Pacific Northwest 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.280 and even going so far as to ports in Texas. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.840 But you know, one thing that we did is that 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.640 we built up contacts with other activists with long short 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.600 workers all up and down the West coast in California. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.680 There are other activists we are connected with in Texas, Hawaii, 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.200 New Jersey, and New York. There is a desire in 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.400 the anti war movement and you know, in some extent 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.400 maybe it's like it was small, but with some folks 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:59.880 in the labor movement, especially in Oakland where the ISLWU 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.600 the you know, longshore Workers Union. It's a lot more 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:07.240 militant than say in a place like Olympia. Yeah, but yeah, 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.240 I mean people wanted to replicate this model because, as 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.760 Juliana said, we wore successful in two thousand and seven, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.840 we shut down the port of Olympia for a total 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.440 of it was essentially two days. They were not they're 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.280 not shipping anything in or out. We set up blockades. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.000 We're willing to throw down with the police in the street. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.320 And one of the things that was cool about that 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.520 blockade is that one of the there's two entrances, like 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.920 I said, and one was completely blockaded, and then the 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.720 other one we had like a moving I don't really 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.560 know what it was, but something with wheels that we 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.160 could move in and out to open it up, and 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.040 so then we could allow like civilian cargo to move 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.120 in and out, but then like we would feel it 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.040 back in place to block military shipments. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.160 So we were you able to actually like stop them 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.880 from like wet while in that wanted to come, actually 0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:02.320 like stop them from moving your stuff altogether, or do 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.760 you actually cleared up by the police and they moved it, it. 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.639 Would eventually get cleared out by the police. It's like 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.760 we were never able to. It's like we were we 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.360 we held it for two days. That those protests took 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.920 place over a series of two weeks or more or less. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.680 We were only able to fully hold it for two 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:26.080 days before eventually they would peer us out. But one 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.119 of the things is that this does it did create 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:35.600 problems for the army because when you work with a port, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.960 you know, it's like you've got like a certain timeframe 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.159 that you've contracted with the port to do whatever it 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.760 is is you're going to do, and it's not too 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.720 happy if you take longer than you said. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.719 You would or yeah, yeah. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.800 And the other thing I want to add is, you know, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.720 I think the other really important element with this whole 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:04.159 movement going on is the Pacific Northwest was it is 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.080 specifically western Washington, where the two of us were living. 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.040 It was it was, uh, you know, the center and 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.040 in a sense it was the heart of the anti 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.040 war movement in the country at that time. One because 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.959 of this militant direct action that we were, you know, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.320 we were building up in the streets and trying to 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.200 throw a wrench in the gears of the war machine 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.960 to to at the very least slow it down. Which 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.439 in some ways we did, but you know, we were 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.280 up against so much. But the other added element, of course, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.520 is the g I resistance and the soldiers who are 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.080 resisting I've all also known as the Rock Veterans against 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.960 the War was very active there. They set up a 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:50.520 GI coffeehouse across you know, literally across the street, uh, 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.520 you know, the the gates for one of the entrances 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.920 for Fort Lewis. There are a whole bunch of soldiers 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.280 that were going a wall. We had friends who were 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.919 active duty soldiers who had fought in you know, Iraq 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.120 and Afghanistan that were a wall and they were hiding, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.240 you know, refusing to go back into these striker brigades 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:15.679 that joined us in port militarization resistance. There are a 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.400 whole you know, long list of soldiers that were very 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.560 publicly saying, you know, I'm refusing to fight in Iraq 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.479 or Afghanistan for you know, various reasons. And so we 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.199 are very much connected with this movement too, and I 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.119 think the higher ups in the military they're they're hyper 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.639 aware of that. They studied us very well, you know, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.480 to the point of actually spying on us. So that's 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.720 like a whole other element of the story too. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:46.960 So one of the things that I've heard from talking 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.680 to other people who were involved in this was that like, wow, 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.160 like during these protests, like the level of police militarization 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.919 just like skyrocketed, and like I remember, I was you 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:00.439 faid about this. It was like, you know, if you 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.600 go back and look at like old system of a 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.080 down videos, you know, they'll have these things, Yeah, and 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:06.840 you'll see these you see these riot police and like 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.160 you look at them and it's like these people they 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.040 look so much less armored than like the people that 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.040 we have now. And one of the things that I 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.399 thought was interesting about this was that like this is 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.280 I think one of the points where you start getting 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.280 the modern riot police showing up, but that are just like, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.840 you know, completely concased in like armor. And yeah, I 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.320 want to talk about just like the police response to this, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.359 because I think that's that's another thing I think. I 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.359 think there's no there's a kind of a tendency to 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.560 sort of project back what the police look like in 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.560 twenty twenty one, just onto the whole history of police, 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.320 and I think it's like it's it's it's gotten worse 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:45.800 even in the last twenty years. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.800 Yeah, I mean, so I live downtown in Olympia and 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.199 probably just like a six minute walk away from the 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:58.960 Port of Olympia and also very conveniently just a few 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.280 blocks away from the police station. So so lucky. 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:02.520 Uh. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.960 So we actually saw, you know, we could see from 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.240 the front of down on the road, down on the 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.000 sidewalk from the front of our house. Uh, some of 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.840 the military shipments going by. And we we did see 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.679 that absolutely, and at times it was it was terrifying. 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.080 I mean I lived in an activist house we jokingly 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.400 called HQ because that's just you know, where it because 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.560 of its proximity to the port. That's where a number 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.360 of us were having meetings, uh, you know, around these 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.880 protests early on in two thousand and six. And yeah, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.320 I mean we like they look like RoboCop and it's 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.639 something I had I you know, I hadn't like I 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.520 had been to like mass marches and demonstrations like the 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.560 RNC protests and DNC protests in Boston, New York and 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.119 like in Washington, d c uh and so I would 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.520 see these like riot cops, but they were I mean 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.760 ubiquitous in these port protests. It was like a whole 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:03.960 army of them that was sent out. I mean when 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:06.840 Juliana said that things got kind of crazy at the 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.639 Port of Tacoma protests, I mean there was like a 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.520 police riot, you know, like the cops went absolutely nuts there, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:19.000 shooting people with tear gas and pepper balls and brutalizing people. 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.639 I had never before witnessed anything like that. And it 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.720 got to the point in you know, in Olympia where 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.240 we kind of knew early on that we were being 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.000 traced by the police to the extent where, you know, 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.439 one friend of ours was followed from our house to 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.600 the bus station to take a bus to school by 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.719 the police and then was stopped and essentially assaulted by 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:46.240 them on the street. And we had another fellow activists, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.920 and you know, a roommate of mine who was going 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:52.760 out to driving out with a few friends, a few 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.040 fellow activists from Olympia to Aberdeen, about an hour's drive. 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.040 So Aberdeen, there's a port of grays Harbor there, pretty 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.560 conservative small town. It's where Kirk Cobain is from. 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:06.440 Home of the famous Kurt Cobain teamed McDonald's. 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.359 Uh, they served billions and and billions served in that 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:17.239 one McDonald's and Kirk Cobain's McDonald's. But yeah, I mean 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.400 they you know, they they were they were following. They 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:25.640 had orders the Washington State Patrol two, you know, pull 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.639 over a car ful full of known anarchists. There was 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.440 alert gone out to all the police departments. They pulled them, 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.200 They pulled them over, They made him walk the line. 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.200 He was hadn't you know, wasn't drinking at no drugs 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:41.040 like nothing in his system. But they he was driving 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.920 under like one mile per hour under the speed limit. 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.280 They arrested him for duh d W I you know, 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:52.040 eventually fought the chargers sued them, uh and you know 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:54.680 what a big settlement out of all that. But that's 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.960 just one example of many of the lengths that the 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.880 police would go to. It was pretty severe. Even there's 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:06.040 a house of a bunch of anarchist younger anarchists called 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.760 the pitch Pipe Info Shop in Tacoma, and that was 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.479 also a big target. The police were swarming around them 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:12.159 all the time. 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:15.760 They had like cameras set up like specifically just outside 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.600 the info shop, like there weren't surrounds cameras there before. 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:20.840 But then there's like, oh well just conveniently put them 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:22.920 on this one specific street corner. 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.000 Yeah, I think like those One of the things I 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:27.639 was reading about this is you have that stuff. And 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.240 then also I think one of the sturiest parts of 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.680 this is that like army intelligence gets involved and yeah, 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.440 do you want to talk about the man named quote 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.880 unquote John Jacob, who was in fact not. 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:43.720 That Yeah, so you know, I'm curious what memories you 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:47.520 have of our our good dear friend John Jacob Juliana. 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.160 I don't think I ever actually knew him in person, 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:55.440 but he was the moderator of the list serve, wasn't he. Yes, 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:57.280 he's one of the moderators of our listsers. 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.040 Now that I look back on it, I'm like the 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:04.600 apartmentalization resistance the SYRUP was always just like this dramatic 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:10.959 shit show. It's like, looking back on it, I was like, oh, 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:18.040 by a cop that did nothing, absolutely nothing to like 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:23.280 establish order or uh it was on purpose. 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.000 Yeah, So I think there's definitely some things that happened, Like, 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:30.760 you know, looking back from our vantage point today, it's like, Okay, 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:32.880 things make a little more sense at the time though, 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:37.040 And we're in this movement, right, and so that means 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.239 like meeting people where they're at. We would find all 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:41.280 kinds of people that would like want to join the 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.880 movement like I like I said earlier, like active duty 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:46.600 soldiers that were joining. So I met this guy named 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:50.199 John Jacob and he sent an email out to me. 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:52.800 I was one of the contacts for the Olympia STS group, 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:55.359 and it's like, hey, you know there's kind of like 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:59.120 a parent organization that's some old like elder activists are 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.080 in to kind of mentor us called Movement for a 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.520 Democratic Society. Very small, never really took off, but like 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.280 I'm interested in getting involved. We met up in public 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.399 and he seemed like an alright guy. I mean he was, 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.800 you know, forty ish early forties. He told me had 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:19.280 like you know, been in the military for years, and 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:21.639 he actually still worked at Fort Lewis, so he was 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:26.480 always open about that, but it only went that far. 0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:29.680 He didn't ever tell us what he actually did there, 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.360 and it wasn't abnormal for you know, we had many 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:36.240 folks that worked active duty you know, on base and 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:39.960 civilian civilian roles or soldiers. As I mentioned that, we're 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:44.119 in port militarization resistance. So he gets involved and he 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:47.880 gets really involved with port militarization resistance. He goes to protests, 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:50.320 he gets pretty close with this group of anarchists I 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:54.119 mentioned who lived in Tacoma, and he seemed like a 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:58.840 really solid guy to most of us. And you know, 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.760 things happens as we progress, and you know, as the 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:07.800 military responded to our you know how effective we were 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.879 in the anti war movement and the GI resistance movement 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:16.600 by changing their tactics. We noticed that, Okay, when we 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:21.920 first started the protests, we had the ability to catch 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.480 the police by surprise by setting up, you know, a 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:28.000 blockade here, or having a surprise action there at this 0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:30.960 time or this port, et cetera, et cetera. And as 0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:33.320 time progressed, we found out that, you know, we were 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:37.440 having these making these decisions for tactics in our strategy. 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:41.639 We thought that we're in private and then for whatever reason, 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.240 the police kind of knew about where we were going 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:47.159 to be before we even showed up. And that I 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:49.720 remember that clearly happening in two thousand and seven the 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:50.560 Port of Olympia. 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:55.000 Yeah, in Takoma. There is a lot of things like that, 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.560 Like there was one time when there are like some 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:01.920 people who had a meeting in a closed room. Like 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:04.399 all their they had taken, like the batteries out of 0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:08.240 their cell phones. They had simply written on the whiteboard 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:10.159 the time and place they were going to have their 0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:11.919 next meeting, which is going to be in a diner 0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:14.600 near the port. And so that way, if like if 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.280 for any reason the room was bugged, it wouldn't be 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:21.280 caught up because it was just written on a board. 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:24.119 And then it was like a small meeting too, so 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.639 it's like there weren't and then when they got to 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:33.119 that diner, there's like full of cops like clearly waiting 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.600 for them. Like at that point, it's like it was 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:40.360 very clear there was some level of infiltration involved. 0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:43.640 Yeah, and I think were from early on, like you know, 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:46.360 we we knew our history. I mean, you know, one 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.640 of our fellow activists in PMRS and a friend of ours, 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:52.880 Peter Bohmer, is a professor at the Evergreen State College. 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.880 He was in the original STS back in the sixties, 0:28:55.920 --> 0:29:00.040 and you know, he was essentially a political prisoner for 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:03.520 a couple of years in both Massachusetts and California. I mean, 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:08.480 the Feds essentially tried to assassinate them back in the 0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:10.880 seventies when he was active in the anti war movement 0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:14.720 in San Diego. Like, we knew, you know, former Black Panthers, 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:16.880 and we read our history, so we knew about the 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.840 history of co intel pro the counterintelligence program of the 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:22.880 sixties and seventies, and the war on the anti war 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:27.000 and civil rights and black power, American Indian movements, et cetera. 0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:32.200 So we knew, you know, just intuitively early on. But 0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:35.400 there was one thing that happened in particular which prompted 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.680 some of us to file for a public records request 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:41.640 with the City of Olympia. And another activist is walking 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:44.400 down the street in Olympia. I'm a member of the 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:46.880 Wobblys and Dustal Workers of the World Union, and we 0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:50.479 had like one of those metal newspaper boxes downtown and 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.680 it was locked to a poll, you know, with a 0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:56.120 bike lock. And there are some city workers there with 0:29:56.160 --> 0:30:00.040 a pickup truck and they're cutting the lock to the 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.320 paper box and they threw it in their pickup truck, 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:04.760 and so, you know, this friend of ours was there 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:06.800 was like, what the hell, what are you doing? What's 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:08.680 going on? And one of the workers just kind of 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.000 shrugged and was like, I don't know, the police told 0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:13.040 us to do this, and they drove off like they 0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:16.880 stole you know, our essentially like our union property or whatever. 0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:20.880 So we had you know, our our lawyer friend Larry 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:23.680 Hildes and the National Lawyer's Guild you know, call and 0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:26.720 kind of threatened the city and and then a number 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:28.560 of us got together were like, hey, you know, let's 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:32.200 do like a public records request with the City of 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:37.720 Olympia freedom of information law right, and so we did. 0:30:37.840 --> 0:30:41.880 And the request was, you know, just requesting any all 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:46.840 information the city had any exchanges communications by email, et 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:51.840 cetera between the police and like other agencies about anarchists, 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:58.000 I WW students for a Democratic Society, And their initial 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.800 search that the city clerk did yielded something like thirty 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:04.320 thousand responses. So she's like, okay, I got to narrow 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:07.600 this down. And I don't know, I was working on 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:10.520 the request at the time, and for some reason, like 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:13.440 I don't know, we're port protests, we're near a military base, 0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:18.120 communications between the army, not thinking anything, and so the 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:23.200 initial responses it actually got you know, maybe one hundred, 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.800 one hundred and thirty or so different documents, just copies 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:31.560 of emails, et cetera, that we're little puzzle pieces for 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:34.560 this massive puzzle. And it was just a few of them, 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.040 and it was, you know, there was an email talking 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:41.880 about our guy in the Navy going to a PMR 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:46.480 meeting to get some intel. There's you know, all kinds 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:48.800 of things like that. There were a few emails in particular, 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:53.280 and the email address was something like John John J. 0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:57.000 Towery at you know, Army dot us whatever the email 0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:00.840 address was. So there's a crew of active that got together, 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:03.840 put their heads together, did some research quietly for a 0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:08.240 few months, and eventually found out by publicly accessible information 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:13.320 like voter registration records and also finding out something about 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.680 like a motorcycle club called like the I don't know, 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.560 like the Brown Butte Club or the Brown Butt Club 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:22.960 or something and the like. Found out that this John 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.840 Towery guy that was in this motorcycle club and had 0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:29.320 his you know, was registered to vote outside of Tacoma 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:33.040 in this town there. It was actually John Jacob. It 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:35.960 was this guy that we thought was a fellow activist, 0:32:36.480 --> 0:32:40.320 an anarchist and a friend, you know, I thought he 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:43.000 was a personal friend of mine. Turns out he was 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:47.240 actually essentially an Army intelligence officer working for something called 0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:52.960 a Force Protection Unit at Joint Face Joint based Lewis McCord, 0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:57.960 and also working with a whole list of different agencies 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:00.360 and what turned out to be like a man massive 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:04.080 surveillance network that was national in scope. This guy was 0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:08.280 sent by the Army along with many others to infiltrate us, 0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:12.560 to spy on us, and to disrupt us was huge. 0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:14.320 Yeah, And that's one of the things that I've always 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:15.800 thought it was really interesting about this is like, so, 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:18.959 like I learned about port militarization resistance basically because I 0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:22.400 was like poking around the history of like informants and 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:24.760 I ran into this and I was like what because 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:26.000 And then that was what I thought. One of the 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:28.680 things I thought was really interesting about this is that like, 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:30.400 like I think that this chapter of the anti war 0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:33.440 movement is even on the left, is like not very 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:36.240 well known, but like the serious dis is which the 0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:40.240 Army seems to have taken it is really remarkable. Yeah, 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:41.880 I'm wondering what you think about that. 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:45.400 One thing we have to emphasize is is that we 0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:49.240 were not a large group of people. Yeah, Like the 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.920 number of people who are actively involved in Port military 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:56.240 I guess ressistance at its speak was at how many 0:33:56.240 --> 0:33:57.560 people do you think it was, Brandon. 0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:00.440 Well, it depends. I mean I'd say they're proudbably like 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:04.600 at its peak, maybe probably four to fifty people that 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.320 would like consistently show up to things, you know, maybe 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:10.799 a slightly smaller, very core group, but we would have 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.400 demonstrations with like and then like four hundred people, you know. 0:34:14.960 --> 0:34:18.400 Yeah, and like that would be like the max like 0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:25.000 there is It's like there were like the peaceful like 0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:27.200 kind of like support actions, you know, you would get 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:29.360 like a couple hundred people, and then like for the 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:36.160 stuff like where it's like the first night that that 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:38.360 the part of the entrance to the part of Olympia 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.520 was occupied, it would be like like forty to fifty people. 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:45.720 These were not These were not very large groups of people. 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.279 I feel like, and like I said, it's like one 0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:51.200 thing that we need to keep in mind was that 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:54.960 the peace police were much stronger back then than they 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:59.520 are now nowadays. Like as we saw last year, it's 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:04.120 like people of learned to throw down, but that was 0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:07.840 not the case at the time. And so this is 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.920 a very very small group of people, and I think 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:14.120 we accomplished a lot from with how small it was. 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:19.520 If it had been larger, it would have accomplished way more. 0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:21.400 But even. 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:29.960 That small core of like forty to fifty people with 0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:34.840 maybe expanding out to like a larger group of a 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:40.560 couple hundred, had them that scared that they went that 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:42.440 far to try and disrupt it. 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:44.319 Yeah, and this is one of the things I've been 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:48.239 thinking about a lot recently. Of this has seas to 0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:50.160 be a very consistent thing, which is that like the 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:55.520 two things that are guaranteed to like just have a 0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:58.400 hammer drop on you if you touch them is pipelines 0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:03.799 and ports. And that was something you know, we've talked 0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:08.360 a lot on here about pipeline protests, but I was 0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:14.120 interested in what you two think about, because, Yeah, this 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:18.600 this is like a very particular moments right now in 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.880 which you're dealing with all these logistics chain failures, and 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:23.879 I was wondering if you do think there's anything that 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:28.359 we can learn from how your versions of the sort 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:33.440 of of port demonstrations worked for potentially trying to leverage 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:36.960 that in the future, especially with like contract negotiations for 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:40.239 port workers in Oakland coming up next year. 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:43.880 Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it is this 0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:47.560 old saying and the IWW, direct action gets goods, right, 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.480 And I think it really boils down to that it's 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:55.879 building up you know, mass movements and social movements from 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:59.960 below that rely on direct action, that rely on civil 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:05.120 is this civil disobedience? Yeah, and the pipeline protests that 0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:08.600 have been ongoing where Indigenous people have been on the 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:12.120 front lines of that for many, many years now. I mean, 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:16.439 the kind of repression and surveillance that we face really 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:20.719 pales in comparison to the kinds of you know, surveillance 0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:24.719 of repression that folks were facing at Standing Rock for example. 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:30.280 You know, I think, of course, one of the well 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:33.480 one of the main differences is that it was primarily 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:38.480 the military, you know, with us, right that was surveilling us, 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:43.080 because this was very specifically, you know, a war issue 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:46.760 and a military issue. But yeah, I mean I think, 0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:51.600 you know, like I think there's a big questions like 0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:53.719 what what do we have to do? That's that's new 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:56.360 And to me, I say, you know, for both that 0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:58.880 kind of militant action, but also for the labor movements, 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.640 like it's not you know, we don't have to reinvent 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:05.640 the wheel. There are things that have a tried and 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:09.520 true track record of getting the goods, and that is 0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:16.040 you know, these more disruptive kind of actions and movements, 0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:18.279 and so one of them would be you know, I 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:20.960 guess my suggestion would be to like go back to 0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:23.960 the basics, and even like I would say, now, you 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:26.840 know this, Remember this is at a time when like 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:30.479 Facebook was around, right, like, but we weren't really using 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:33.160 that for our organizing. We really relied on like face 0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:37.560 to face meetings, you know, phone calls and building up 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.680 trust with people and building up our capacity to like 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:43.719 take actions and make change. You know, I think I'm 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:46.640 not saying throw out everything that you know, that at 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:48.760 least some of the good that social media has to offer, 0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:52.080 but like I think going beyond that and going back 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:54.440 to these older tactics. And then for the labor movement, 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:56.960 like the big thing is you know, and it's just 0:38:57.000 --> 0:39:02.239 like a bigger question for for mainstreaming in particular. I mean, 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:06.319 they're the whole idea of like union contracts is that 0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:09.720 workers also lose a lot. Yeah, they get some things, 0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:14.560 but business owners and bosses have rights carved out in 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.200 those contracts. And with the long shore workers, I mean 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:20.279 The difficult thing with that, of course, is like there 0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:23.560 would be some symbolic strikes that, of course, like longshore 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:27.280 workers have done and continue to do, you know, around 0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:32.480 like the Warren Rock historically supporting movement, Abu Jamal may Day, 0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:36.480 et cetera, like in Oakland, but they have some things 0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:39.239 for that written into their contracts, and you know, for 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:42.440 all these other like unions, it's like, well, you know, 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:47.240 we can't strike at all for the next two years, 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.880 the next three years, whatever the life of the contract is. Like, 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.200 I think it's a bigger question and challenge for the 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:56.200 labor movement to move beyond that and not be put 0:39:56.280 --> 0:39:59.480 in this straight jacket of contracts like that. 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:02.279 Yeah, I think that that, particularly, like the the no 0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.919 strike clause part of contracts, I think is an interesting 0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:09.759 thing because it I don't know, there's not I mean, 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:14.840 there are some unions that will actually do stuff around 0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:17.759 fighting it, but mostly people just sort of don't care. 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:21.320 And I think you wind up in a situation where 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:23.640 it seems like you kind of have to plan your 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:27.600 tactics around when contract negotiations are happening, because otherwise you 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:29.840 can't actually get people to do anything more of in 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:31.200 like a one day symbolic strike. 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:34.160 Yeah, and or you know, the challenge is, like, you know, 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.520 we have this great American tradition that's not unique to 0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:40.960 the US. It's universal really, and it's one that resonates 0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.960 with me breaking the law right and like we're you know, 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:48.200 we're like civil disobedience. That is that what we are 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.200 doing in the streets and blocking the ports. We were 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:51.960 breaking the law and we knew it. And that's what 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:55.120 the civil rights movement, the Black freedom movement did in 0:40:55.560 --> 0:41:00.480 the nineteen sixties. But like we have recent exams samples 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:04.640 of workers breaking the law in mass like the West 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:08.680 Virginia teacher strikes that happened a few years ago, Like 0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:12.560 teachers in every single county in that state went on strike. 0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:16.399 They broke the law, and they want something out of that. 0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:19.160 And I think that's what we really need to encourage people, 0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:23.120 is this idea of breaking out of like the norm 0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:26.480 and breaking the laws, which you know, the laws that 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:29.360 are in place, which are not there to you know, 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:33.440 expand our freedom, they're there to contract it. 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:33.960 Yeah. 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:36.440 One of one of my friends had a joke about 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:39.239 what was the exact line. It was, it's it's only 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:41.400 illegal if you get caught and it only matters if 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:43.400 you lose, which I think is a good way of 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:51.080 thinking about both. Yeah, and you know, yeah, I think 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:54.520 it's also like it's worth mentioning that like the other sides, 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.759 the law doesn't matter to them at all, Like they 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.320 just tear it up and like light it on fire constantly. 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.680 So don't don't bind yourself if you can, if you 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:07.280 can not get caught and not like go to prison 0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.239 for the rest of your life. Don't bind yourself by 0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:12.040 a bunch of like paper that the other side just 0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:14.160 doesn't care about. 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:18.680 Yeah, and that's an excellent point, because that's the big thing, 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:22.040 you know, with the army and law enforcement in general, 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:24.800 like surveillance of us. They were in the police just 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:27.400 their actions, their brazen actions on the street, like the 0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:31.240 Ryot police, they were just breaking. 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:32.880 The law all the time. 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:37.919 They absolutely have a deep visceral hatred of the Bill 0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:41.120 of Rights, of civil rights and civil liberties. And so 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:44.600 there were a number of, you know, court cases that 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:48.120 sprung out of you know, this movement. There was a 0:42:48.160 --> 0:42:53.440 case called Panagoacas Vitari another Juliana Panagoacas was another PMR 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:56.960 member coplaintiff in that case. And you know, it was 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.880 a case against the Army that you know, we wage 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.239 and brought up to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals 0:43:03.280 --> 0:43:06.799 and you know, eventually lost and it could have brought 0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:09.319 it to the Supreme Court but didn't. But you know, 0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:11.640 like the the other thing is like the violation of 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.480 the Posse Commentatos Act. It was a whole other thing. 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:16.319 You know, we don't have to get like so tied 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:19.480 up into like the legalistic I think, but like the 0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:22.520 point your point is valid. Like they don't care about 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.400 the laws that are already there. They'll they'll just intentionally 0:43:26.440 --> 0:43:28.880 break them, break their own laws that they have set up, 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.480 and you know, they'll just get a slap on the 0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:36.359 wrist because that's really all that's all that happens to them. 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:37.879 I think, I think I think that's a good note 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:41.520 to end on break the law. It's fake. It's also bad. 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:44.160 Do you two have anything you want. 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:47.040 To plug other than that, other than you know, encouraging 0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:47.719 people to break the. 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:51.920 Law your local. 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:59.279 Port Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's you know, 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:02.799 I guess just encourage people to do as you know, 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:05.160 it sounds like what we're doing by having us on 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.359 the show, and like there are some in our very 0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:13.399 recent history, you know, movements and wins that we all 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:16.239 as activists today can still learn from. And I think 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.279 part of that, you know, I don't want to call 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:22.120 us elders because we're not that old, but like one 0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:25.320 part of that is like making sure like our movements 0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:29.640 are still like multi generational and like we we learned 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:33.520 from each other and also as as Julianna and I did, 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.720 like I mentioned earlier, like we learned from the movements 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:40.760 of the past, SDS, the Black Panthers, the Black Freedom Movement, 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:43.920 et cetera. But there's a lot that you know, these 0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:47.320 these struggles I think have to offer us today. 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:51.440 All right, well, think thank you, thank you both for 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:52.719 talking coming on and talking with. 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:54.440 Us, for having us. 0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:55.239 Thank you. 0:44:56.680 --> 0:44:58.359 Well, this is this has when it could happen here 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:02.160 I find us at have your pod on Twitter, Instagram, 0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:04.920 and the rest of our stuff is a cause on 0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:10.040 media at the same somewhat accursed social media places. I 0:45:10.040 --> 0:45:11.920 don't know why I'm saying somewhat, they're just a cursed 0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:17.240 yeah see you next time whenever. 0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:30.239 That is, Hey everyone, it's James. 0:45:30.400 --> 0:45:33.399 I am just recording an introduction for today's episode, which 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:36.480 we recorded on Sunday night. I'm recording this on Monday 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:40.080 night and you will hear this on Tuesday morning. That's Tuesday, 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:44.200 twenty eighth of November. I just wanted to include another 0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:47.920 ask for donations right up front here, because we are tired, 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:52.120 broke and sad. I spent last night sleeping out by 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:57.240 the migrant camp in Nocumber, one of the camps. It 0:45:57.320 --> 0:45:59.400 was extremely cold like and I had a good sleeping 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:02.640 bag right much much worse for people who have blankets. 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:07.800 I had a young woman completely breaking down and crying 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.200 this morning, understandably because it's terrible and people have been 0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:14.200 there for five six days now. We ran out of 0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:18.120 food all our distribution sites today. We just desperately need 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:22.560 more help and we need a much larger scale operation, 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:25.439 but we can't find that. So if you're able to help, 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:27.600 please please do. I know it's a difficult time of year. 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:30.279 I'm not asking you to give money that I wouldn't give. 0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:34.840 I'm thousand plus dollars deep in this. I'm not asking 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.839 you to do things that I wouldn't do. Spending half 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:42.280 my week out there like, I'm not just preaching something 0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:44.319 that I am not part of this is something I'm 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:45.880 very much part of. I think it's very important to 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:47.759 me and it would mean a lot to me if 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:51.040 people could help. However they can, either materially or with 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:53.480 their time. Thank you very much, and I hope you 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:58.239 enjoy the episode. 0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:00.279 Hi. 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:03.719 Hello, it's me James, the guy who does podcast who 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:06.720 talks to you when you're driving to work, and today 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:09.359 on this podcast it Could Happen Here, which is about 0:47:09.400 --> 0:47:11.399 the world falling apart and people who are putting it 0:47:11.480 --> 0:47:14.319 back together. I am joined by two friends of mine. 0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:16.719 We are in the desert in a Cumba at the 0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:20.279 Cumba Hot Springs Hotel, which is open now thankfully. We've 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:24.840 just spent most of today and the last two months 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:28.600 doing mutual aid project out here. So if you guys 0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:31.240 like to introduce yourselves in any way you think it's relevant, 0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:32.440 that would be great to start off with, and then 0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:33.879 we can talk about what's been going on here. 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:35.800 I am Haval. 0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:40.279 I use their them pronouns. I live in San Diego 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:45.239 but now currently living in her cumber helping out with 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.480 the migrant crisis at the border. 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:49.439 Hi. 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:55.319 I'm Alo like alo Vera. I use she her pronouns, 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:59.440 and I've been doing mutual aid for a couple of 0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:04.960 years now and recently have come into the scene of 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:07.040 helping with the refugee crisis at the border. 0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:08.319 Massive thank you. 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.400 Okay, So I think to start off with, can one 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:14.120 of you or both of you describe just what we've 0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:18.360 seen today. I think it's very hard for people to 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:20.759 get a grasp of like how the scale of what's 0:48:20.760 --> 0:48:23.719 happening and how bad it is here. 0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:24.480 Yeah. 0:48:24.520 --> 0:48:29.280 So today we are in the wake of a holiday 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:35.280 where CBP takes off, well most of them are taking 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:39.320 off for the holiday, and probably what is a iss 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:42.000 action as well, who picks up the migrants. So there's 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:45.680 a huge backlog of people not getting picked up, stuck 0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:49.480 in these open air detention sites. And this is some 0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:51.399 of the highest numbers that we've seen in a long 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:56.239 time since like the beginning of this what happened in September, right, Yeah, 0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:59.480 And it's insane, like the amount of people that we've 0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:02.160 were running out of food. Basically we barely made it 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:04.920 buy on peanut butter and jelly sandwich, the world famous 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:05.399 peanut butter. 0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:09.520 They're coming here because we feed them. They just want 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:10.160 the sandwich. 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:12.560 And it was wild. 0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:16.640 It was it's it's like the desperation is getting worse 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:20.000 because as it gets colder, you know, people are suffering more, 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:23.120 they're you know, shivering more, so it's using. 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:24.320 More energy, They're more hungry. 0:49:24.320 --> 0:49:26.600 When we show up, they're tailing our van as we 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:30.759 pull up, which doesn't didn't always happen, And yeah, the 0:49:30.840 --> 0:49:32.040 desperation is real. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:36.760 We saw what like three sixty. 0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:39.360 I think at one camp Willows and then at another 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:43.239 camp it was one fifty at another camp totally what 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:45.919 seven math is hard? 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:50.200 Yeah, and it varies throughout the day. Right, Like, I'm surprised. 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:53.840 We should explain, maybe ALA can do this. What is 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:55.520 it open at detention site? 0:49:55.560 --> 0:49:55.719 Right? 0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:58.400 OADS is yacronom we use. What does that look like? 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:01.479 So an opener to tension center. From what I've seen, 0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:06.800 is literally just people left out in the desert with nothing. 0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:11.040 The shelter that they have has either been built themselves 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:15.040 by the shrubs and you know the manzanita bushes that 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:17.920 they find around there that they also burn which creates 0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:22.000 awful smoke, as well as what we provide them in 0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:25.840 terms of tarps, blankets, tents. What I've seen in the 0:50:25.880 --> 0:50:31.600 open air detention centers is Essentially, when Border Patrol has 0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:33.480 the start of a quarter, they have the money to 0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:36.799 really get people out of there. You have a lot 0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:41.520 of people just processed very quickly. It doesn't pile up. 0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:44.239 And then because of that, all the infrastructure that we 0:50:44.320 --> 0:50:47.000 put into these places, and all of you know, the 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:50.400 infrastructure that these refugees build themselves, right this is not 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:54.560 provided by Border Patrol, gets basically ruined. And so you 0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:58.080 have soiled blankets that have become the tops of tents 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:00.840 because that's their only use at this point, have not 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:04.879 enough shelters, so people are sleeping just among the rocks 0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:08.480 and trees because it's the best they can. Yeah, and 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:12.560 I think one of the most notable points of these 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:17.399 open air detention centers is legally speaking, Border Patrol gets 0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:20.680 around this by not really calling them detention centers, saying 0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:23.560 that they're not detained and that technically they're free. But 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:26.760 the reality is there's nowhere for them to go without 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:32.760 getting you arrested or deported. But because of this loophole, 0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:35.080 Border Patrol has no obligation to feed them, and so 0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:37.280 when they do feed them at the start of the quarter, 0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:40.759 when they have the budget at which they blow it's oranges, 0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:44.560 it's crackers. It's not enough to live off of when 0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:48.920 you're stuck there for five days. I spoke to a 0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:53.320 Kurdish migrant today who had been there for five days. 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:56.120 And you know, we've heard of people staying there for 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.080 an entire week, just stuck in these camps as they 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:02.479 overflow with people because they're not cleared due to whether 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.040 it be a holiday season or whatever it might be 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:06.560 that puts us in this circumstance. 0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:10.239 Yeah, and obviously most people won't have been here. You 0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:11.920 can look on a map or Google Maps that you 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.400 want to, but all of this is happening like literally 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:16.640 in the shadow of the border wall in some cases, 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:19.040 or right next to the border wall. Sometimes it's a 0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:22.319 little bit next, a little bit further away. And just 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:25.040 to explain why there are these locations where they are, 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:27.279 you guys want to explain like how people are getting 0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:30.560 to the because cucumber. If you've got Google Maps, if 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:32.600 you're not driving, like, you can put it up and 0:52:32.600 --> 0:52:33.960 you can look right, we're like an hour and a 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:36.600 bit east of San Diego, about seventy miles east of 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:39.600 San Diego, closer to our centro than San Diego. So 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:41.960 can you explain how people are ending up here by 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:43.320 the hundreds or thousands. 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:43.960 Yeah, so. 0:52:45.520 --> 0:52:48.360 Talk to many migrants and they stay in a hotel 0:52:48.440 --> 0:52:49.040 in TJ. 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:51.840 I have no idea which one, and wouldn't give. 0:52:51.719 --> 0:52:55.279 The information if I did, but yeah, they stay in 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:59.279 a hotel in TJ, and they get separated by nationality. 0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:02.560 So they take their passports from them and put them 0:53:02.560 --> 0:53:05.399 in stacks and separate them by their nationalities. So you'll 0:53:05.440 --> 0:53:08.279 get you know, Chinese nationalists together, you'll get people that 0:53:08.320 --> 0:53:11.640 are from Turkey together, mostly Kurdish, and then you'll get 0:53:11.760 --> 0:53:14.759 whatever their nationality is. And I'm sure the outliers get 0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:19.239 just lumped into whatever is the most you know, like yeah, 0:53:19.320 --> 0:53:23.120 language group exactly. And then they get in the morning, 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:26.480 I guess at like five or six am. They drive 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:29.560 all the way out from TJ to Hakamba and get 0:53:29.600 --> 0:53:32.640 dropped off at there's three points where there's breaks in 0:53:32.680 --> 0:53:36.239 the walls, and these walls obviously they don't go over 0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:39.160 the mountains because Trump was trying to build distance rather 0:53:39.239 --> 0:53:42.799 than actual stopping people, and so these breaks in the 0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:47.080 walls are very easy to cross. It's literally just walking over. 0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:50.480 There was some remnants of concertina wire or bob wire 0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:53.360 like in the area, but it's all ripped and super 0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:57.440 easy to cross, and so the coyotes will drop them 0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:02.200 off near or bits away from that point and have 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.480 them walk in when that's where border patrol. After they cross, 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:08.040 border patrol will intercept them give them wristbands for the 0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:08.960 day they arrived. 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:10.560 We actually just saw this last week. 0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:12.920 They must have ran out of wristbands because they were 0:54:12.960 --> 0:54:16.520 giving like Sunday wristbands when it was like a Wednesday. 0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:19.800 Yeah, everybody said fuck, like and that makes. 0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:22.440 Our job more complicated too, not only their job, I'm sure, 0:54:22.480 --> 0:54:25.160 because they're trying to process them in order, but our 0:54:25.239 --> 0:54:27.040 job because we're trying to record how long have people 0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:29.320 been here. I remember I was talking to a Chinese 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:31.719 nationalist and had to call a translator just to see 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:33.600 like because they had a Sunday wristband and I think 0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:37.520 it was Tuesday or something already, and I was like, wait, 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:39.640 you got you've been here for two days. And they 0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:42.359 were like like trying to explain what the language barrier wants. 0:54:42.400 --> 0:54:44.359 The translated like, no, we got here three hours ago. 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:46.359 We kept thinking they got here three days ago. They 0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:50.160 kept showing the number three on their hands and so yeah, 0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:51.839 they give them these risk bands and then tell them 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:54.600 to wait in these areas that are very close to 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:58.520 where they are intercepted, and border patrol will tell them 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:00.960 there's cameras all over the dead that we're watching you, 0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:04.120 so don't leave, and if you leave, it'll mess up 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:07.600 your migroprocess or your asylum process, and so they most 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:09.880 of them stay. We've actually have seen a lot of 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:13.160 people walking on the eighty here trying to get to 0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:16.239 town because they're desperate, they're cold, they're hungry, and they're. 0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:18.040 Probably just like fuck this, you know. 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:21.799 But it's interesting too, how like border patrol in all 0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:24.920 media aspects denies the existence of these camps. 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:28.000 Yeah, they're not explicitly to me right later, they don't exist, 0:55:28.120 --> 0:55:30.560 or they don't detain people, people that they what they'll 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:32.960 say to people aren't detained here, that they're free to go. 0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:35.760 Which technically they are and they can walk. 0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:39.640 But I had a Kurdish friend that I met at 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:42.160 one of the camps that we call Moon Camp, and 0:55:42.320 --> 0:55:46.080 twenty year old from Turkey, and he said that him 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:48.160 and a bunch of friends that he was traveling with 0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:51.480 just walked to the subway up the street got a 0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:54.480 subway sandwich, and then border patrol showed up after they 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:56.920 had ordered their food, yeah, and said you have to 0:55:56.960 --> 0:55:59.479 go back with us, but finish your food here, because 0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:02.000 imagine that walking in was being taken back with some 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:04.080 way be like, oh, we can just leave and get 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:06.799 out of here. Like so they finished their sandwiches and 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:09.520 then he took them straight back. So that is detention. 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:11.960 If you can't leave, then you're in detention. 0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:13.560 That's the debt. By definition. 0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:15.839 I feel like, yeah, and I don't think people think 0:56:15.840 --> 0:56:18.040 they are free to leave. And I don't think people 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:22.880 certainly they're not told what situation they were in, right 0:56:22.920 --> 0:56:25.520 and think so maybe they would assume that, but there's 0:56:25.520 --> 0:56:27.319 also not very many places for them to go. 0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:29.760 We are in the middle of nowhere. 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:33.880 So from what I've talked to different people, you know, 0:56:34.239 --> 0:56:37.319 on top of just like crossing the border, there's also 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:41.399 an entire period where these people are traveling and all 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:46.040 of them travel in different ways, and some of them 0:56:46.080 --> 0:56:48.720 are traveling all the way from South America through Panama 0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:50.719 through the jungle, and you know, people are dying on 0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:53.359 the route over here, and some of them are lucky 0:56:53.440 --> 0:56:54.560 enough to just fly in. 0:56:54.640 --> 0:56:57.319 And and you know, right, Yeah, they have to fight 0:56:57.360 --> 0:56:58.240 to Cancun. 0:56:57.920 --> 0:57:00.279 Fly into Cancun, and then make their way over to 0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:04.800 TJ and make it through the border. And I have seen, 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:09.960 like for myself with my own eyes, you know, burns 0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:12.960 from motorcycle exhaust from you know, the different methods that 0:57:12.960 --> 0:57:18.320 they've used to get here. And I've seen spider bites, 0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:22.120 I've seen, you know, injuries that are infected that have 0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.200 been infected for a long time because they've been that 0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:27.680 way since they were in the jungle, and it's inadequate. 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:32.360 I had a woman that I was helping give medical 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:35.440 care to whose ankles were swollen from a steroid that 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:37.240 she was given that she should not have been given 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:42.360 and that she had a bad reaction to. And yeah, 0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:46.120 that's just been their reality traveling here and trying to 0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:49.840 get here. On top of that, I think that speaking 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:52.800 of medical issues and speaking on what you were saying 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:55.800 earlier about the threats of becoming undocumented, the threats of 0:57:56.120 --> 0:57:58.400 you know, being forced to stay in these camps, there's 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:04.000 even fear of having a medical emergency. So like when 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:06.360 EMS comes out, when we call nine to one one 0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.640 or Border Patrol calls nine one one, right they're not 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:12.520 like working in connection with border patrol. They're just going 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:14.640 to a hospital as if it was you know, someone 0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:19.240 house person on the street going to the hospital. And 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:21.600 so they end up there, and if they're not given 0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:26.960 the proper information to get a court tape, to finish 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:30.560 their asylum process and to really like be submitted properly 0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:33.040 into the country, they are at risk of becoming undocumented. 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:35.720 And I think that fear has spread among people, and 0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:39.800 I've definitely noticed personally that there is fear to have 0:58:40.120 --> 0:58:41.960 nine to one one call to be taken away in 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:46.680 an ambulance because they fear you know, becoming undocumented or being. 0:58:46.560 --> 0:58:48.000 At risk or separated. 0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:50.320 Separated has been a big thing because if they end 0:58:50.400 --> 0:58:53.240 up having their process either take longer or just be 0:58:53.320 --> 0:58:55.800 stuck in the hospital or whatever it may be, they're 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:58.320 away from their family, they have to go through a 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:01.480 different process. They're not processed at the detention center is 0:59:01.520 --> 0:59:04.000 the same way or at the same time. So it's 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:05.960 just it's a it's a there's a lot of fear, 0:59:06.480 --> 0:59:10.920 and I think that's led to a lot of unnecessary harm. 0:59:11.400 --> 0:59:14.080 And we do our best in terms of medical care, 0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:16.600 but there's you know, we're limited. We you know, it's 0:59:16.640 --> 0:59:19.919 over the counter, it's you know, it's we can't do much. 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:25.439 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a street medicine really, yes, exactly. Yeah, 0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:28.240 Like we have some doctors and nurses and other qualified 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:30.840 medical people come and help, but they don't have the 0:59:30.880 --> 0:59:33.480 diagnostic tools that they need. Right, Like today we headed 0:59:33.520 --> 0:59:36.200 somebody who had clearly some high issues and like the 0:59:36.240 --> 0:59:38.000 best we can do is say this person needs to 0:59:38.040 --> 0:59:40.600 go to hospital. But then in this case, they were 0:59:40.600 --> 0:59:42.720 able to take the person's partners. Sometimes they won't take 0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:45.000 the person's partner. Sometimes a person could be separated from 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:48.680 their children, and so they're obviously very afraid of that. 0:59:49.000 --> 0:59:53.040 And and to compound that, I think like the release 0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:55.960 that they're not released in the way they had previously 0:59:56.040 --> 0:59:58.560 been released, that they're dumped onto the street at certain 0:59:58.600 --> 1:00:01.600 transit centers, right and then and again it falls onto 1:00:01.800 --> 1:00:03.960 volunteers nonprofits to help them get to. 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:04.760 Where they're going to go. 1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:09.600 The scale of the mutual aid operation is really impressive, 1:00:10.360 --> 1:00:14.200 and it's something that I don't think is like we 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:16.760 don't talk about it enough, people don't really understand it. 1:00:17.240 --> 1:00:19.720 So could maybe we just start, like literally what we 1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:22.560 do every day in a day. I've got to have 1:00:22.640 --> 1:00:23.600 volity here every day. 1:00:24.040 --> 1:00:27.360 Yes, yeah, One thing I forgot to mention is I 1:00:27.440 --> 1:00:31.880 am here every single day now full time, ten plus 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:32.640 hours a day. 1:00:32.720 --> 1:00:37.280 It's eight days a week. And so yeah, every day 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:38.439 we wake up, I wake up. 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:41.280 Around like six am, and we try to get to 1:00:41.400 --> 1:00:43.360 the first camp, which is down the street from where 1:00:43.400 --> 1:00:47.560 I'm staying, around seven thirty or eight. 1:00:47.360 --> 1:00:48.400 O'clock in the morning. 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:51.440 And the previous night we have loaded the van up 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:53.440 with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because they have a 1:00:53.440 --> 1:00:56.240 good hold. You don't need to keep them really refrigerated 1:00:56.440 --> 1:01:00.160 much or you know, the YadA YadA, and so it's 1:01:00.200 --> 1:01:03.280 just peeb and j's water and fruit and we give 1:01:03.360 --> 1:01:07.760 them each one at least sometimes more if we have 1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:13.040 the capability, and then we another person who is also 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:16.280 here full time will hit another camp on their way 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:18.120 because it's on their way to meet up at a 1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.040 central location we call the Youth Center or the YC 1:01:22.480 --> 1:01:26.680 where all of our donations end up, whether it's clothes, blankets, 1:01:27.720 --> 1:01:31.520 food items, non perishables, perishables. We have a fridge and 1:01:31.640 --> 1:01:34.320 in that place, once we get there, we'll assess what 1:01:34.360 --> 1:01:35.960 we need to do is do we need to make 1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:38.080 more food? Do we have enough to go feed the 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:40.640 third camp, which we call one seven seven, which is 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:42.960 all the way in Boulevard a little outside of Hakamba, 1:01:43.760 --> 1:01:46.480 And if we have enough, we'll just hit we'll leave 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.160 and hit that spot and then come back and start dinner. 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:52.520 And in the meanwhile, we have a lot of volunteers 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:54.440 that will show up and make peanut butter and jelly 1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:57.080 sandwiches because that is our easy go to staple. 1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:58.479 It's quick to give out. 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:00.800 It's you know, not a whole lot of prep time 1:02:00.880 --> 1:02:05.760 to make, you know, five hundred sandwiches, which seems like 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:08.520 a lot, but we've gone through probably tens of thousand 1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:10.320 those sandwiches by this point. 1:02:10.960 --> 1:02:13.720 So he gave out a thousand PB ANDJS today. 1:02:13.920 --> 1:02:15.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:17.960 Yeah, we ran out like today, I gave out everything 1:02:18.040 --> 1:02:20.680 and there was even people where like the two we 1:02:21.200 --> 1:02:24.840 got everybody in the line, which was I think I 1:02:24.840 --> 1:02:27.880 think that was around three sixty. No, no, it was 1:02:27.880 --> 1:02:31.479 three sixty when we did account and so in the morning, yeah, 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:33.880 and we ran out, and but we had two So 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:36.240 like a lot of the times, especially the micros that 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:38.240 have been there multiple days, they'll jump in. There's like 1:02:38.240 --> 1:02:40.400 always two people or three people that are like, I'm 1:02:40.440 --> 1:02:44.280 here to help Kurdish people, our amazing help and are 1:02:44.320 --> 1:02:46.840 always willing to step up. But yeah, this morning at 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:49.120 Willow one of the camps, we had two guys that 1:02:49.200 --> 1:02:52.000 were kind of controlling the line and helping keep them back, 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:54.320 and one of them like send them to us one 1:02:54.320 --> 1:02:56.760 at a time. And at the very end of it, 1:02:56.800 --> 1:02:58.880 I had nothing for them, and I was like going 1:02:58.960 --> 1:03:01.200 to hook them up with a cop sandwiches and a 1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:03.280 little have anybody who helps, I'll cook them up with 1:03:03.280 --> 1:03:05.880 a cups of extra sandwiches or food items or water 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:10.240 or cigarettes even, And yeah, I had nothing for them 1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:13.280 except for kids sandwiches or kid sandwiches kid packs. So 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:16.640 we make these little sandwich bags full of like different 1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:20.080 candies and you know, granola bars and things that kids 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:21.720 would like to eat and give them a lot of 1:03:21.800 --> 1:03:24.840 nutrition and stuff. So I just gave them extra that. 1:03:25.000 --> 1:03:27.880 And once other migrants saw me giving those things out 1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:29.760 that I had been holding and telling other people know, 1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:32.840 these are for kids, then everybody swarmed and it was 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.880 just like, Okay, well I'm giving all the kid whoever's there, 1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:38.960 whoever's arm is there. They're getting you know, a kid's 1:03:39.000 --> 1:03:41.479 pack and got rid of literally all of our food. 1:03:41.520 --> 1:03:43.440 And I think we put in like twelve plus cases 1:03:43.440 --> 1:03:46.520 of water, forty packs, and they were all gone except 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:49.800 for maybe like ten or fifteen waters. It was one 1:03:49.800 --> 1:03:54.680 of the more dire mornings that we've had, especially, Yeah, 1:03:55.000 --> 1:03:55.880 at these camps. 1:03:56.760 --> 1:04:00.480 I know that three sixty was the the number that 1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:02.480 you guys got in the morning, but I believe that 1:04:02.840 --> 1:04:04.560 by the time that we were working in the evening, 1:04:04.600 --> 1:04:06.520 at least when I was doing medical check, the number 1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:09.440 that I was getting told either around the camp or 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:13.480 from Border patrol was five hundred at Willows. So and 1:04:13.560 --> 1:04:15.920 this is you know, these are numbers that even Border 1:04:15.920 --> 1:04:19.760 Patrol is like freaking out over. They are, you know, 1:04:19.880 --> 1:04:23.640 worried because they can't deal with this quantity of people 1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.560 and keep them processing while there's still a consistent flow. 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.160 And that's you know, it puts a lot of strain 1:04:30.240 --> 1:04:32.520 on us because, like you were saying, we're running out 1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:36.840 of food. We don't have enough to feed five hundred people, 1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:40.200 you know, every day, even though we're just doing you know, 1:04:40.280 --> 1:04:42.680 two meals a breakfast and as best we can a 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:46.040 dinner and trying to make sure that that dinner is 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:48.920 a hot meal because it is frigid out here. I 1:04:49.040 --> 1:04:52.400 slept in my van and I kept having to wake 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:55.880 up to try and warm up and do something to 1:04:56.320 --> 1:04:59.640 keep myself from freezing. And I, you know, I can 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:03.000 only a imagine what it's like for them with what 1:05:03.120 --> 1:05:06.520 minimal equipment they have. Some of them don't even have tents. 1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:12.280 So it has been a lot. I know that today, 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:16.000 running medical, I've seen a lot of people with colds, 1:05:16.560 --> 1:05:19.680 and I am suspicious that that perhaps there is COVID 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:23.280 running around, that perhaps there is, you know something, there's 1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:26.200 definitely something, some kind of very severe illness. Going through 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:28.880 the camps and being in this freezing cold is not 1:05:28.920 --> 1:05:31.440 helping anyone's immune system. And on top of that, I've 1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:34.240 seen broken fingers and some other stuff. And that's that's 1:05:34.280 --> 1:05:37.520 been my today has been treating that and then helping 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:40.240 out with dinner, which I will say I tried a 1:05:40.240 --> 1:05:41.960 little bit of the lentils and rice, and I can 1:05:42.000 --> 1:05:43.280 say we are feeding them well. 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:45.200 It is delicious, delicious food. 1:05:48.200 --> 1:05:52.720 Thank you, Sam Schultz, an amazing cook and an amazing 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:56.440 helper for us making sure that we, you know, are 1:05:56.520 --> 1:05:58.400 able to do this for like you were saying, for 1:05:58.440 --> 1:06:02.720 a long time, you know, this was put on you know, 1:06:02.760 --> 1:06:07.240 one family of locals to really, yeah, one family of 1:06:07.280 --> 1:06:12.120 Quakers to really take care of these people day in 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:16.240 and day out. And it wasn't until you came here 1:06:16.320 --> 1:06:18.920 and were able to actually like be here full time 1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:23.200 that there was even just an extra hand around. And 1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:27.200 you know, right, volunteers are here during the week. But 1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:29.720 the reality is is we are all still stuck at work, 1:06:29.760 --> 1:06:32.200 we all still live in this healthscape. We're all still 1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:36.840 stuck grinding those gears and making ends meet. And so 1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:39.360 coming out here for a lot of us is you know, 1:06:39.480 --> 1:06:41.720 like for me, is a weekend task. It's you know, 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:43.920 it's what we can do. It's what we have the 1:06:44.000 --> 1:06:48.720 ability and the time and the gas money for. And 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:50.400 on top of that, a lot of us spent a 1:06:50.400 --> 1:06:52.680 lot of our own money. I know that I've spent 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:55.040 like at least a grand and a half on just 1:06:55.160 --> 1:06:59.200 like supplies for these runs, on supplies for whatever I can. 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:04.320 And you know, sometimes we get we're able to get 1:07:04.320 --> 1:07:07.760 reimbursed by our mutual aids, and sometimes the money runs 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:09.400 dry and we just you know, we need a lot 1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:11.280 of support out here that we don't have, that we 1:07:11.320 --> 1:07:13.240 don't get and I feel like we really felt that 1:07:13.280 --> 1:07:14.440 today running out of food. 1:07:15.400 --> 1:07:16.760 Yeah, it was bleak today. 1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:19.520 And of course the thing is like we can feed 1:07:19.600 --> 1:07:22.040 five hundred people and do this gug gantu an effort, 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.960 and then we have to feed the same number tomorrow. 1:07:25.360 --> 1:07:27.640 And like if we clear out us that we on 1:07:27.720 --> 1:07:30.040 top of like those of us who are able to 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:33.680 go out to do medicals, to do feeds, sometimes some 1:07:33.720 --> 1:07:35.880 of us go out and construct shelters or to check 1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:37.400 that there aren't people who are sick and the shelters 1:07:37.400 --> 1:07:39.960 who aren't getting care that they need, et cetera, et cetera. 1:07:40.560 --> 1:07:42.600 Like you said, people have to cook, right, people have 1:07:42.680 --> 1:07:46.640 to make pbjs. People have to resupply our stuff and 1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:48.720 drive it up from San Diego, which is an hour 1:07:48.760 --> 1:07:52.120 and fifteen minutes away. Like it's a gargantu an effort 1:07:52.640 --> 1:07:56.600 that it's exclusively taken on by volunteers, and like a 1:07:56.760 --> 1:08:01.160 relatively small group of volunteers considering the scale of the 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:05.120 task at hand. I wonder like if you would like 1:08:05.600 --> 1:08:08.040 talk about your volunteering experience a little bit. I think 1:08:08.080 --> 1:08:10.240 it's been great, Like it's a very diverse group of people. 1:08:10.560 --> 1:08:13.360 We've had so many. We have the Schultz family who 1:08:13.360 --> 1:08:16.040 are Quakers who are amazing, who have been like spearheading 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:20.240 this since the start. We have like obviously a lot 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:23.759 of anarchist people, and a lot of people from various 1:08:23.800 --> 1:08:27.519 migrant advocacy and aid groups. Uh, that's what we have, 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:30.599 the Black Panthers the other day. That's probably a ton 1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:31.320 of people I'm missing. 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:35.240 But yeah, in church groups, church career, I. 1:08:35.280 --> 1:08:37.559 Mean, the whole the YC was kind of given to 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:40.000 us and I think now we're renting it to my knowledge, 1:08:41.479 --> 1:08:44.640 but that was given to us by the what's the 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:48.560 church Methodist church here in Hukumba. And then there's a 1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:52.479 group of Mormons and they're just kind of unaffiliated from 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:54.320 their church in a way, like they're not. There was 1:08:54.400 --> 1:08:57.320 just a family that saw the need and some of 1:08:57.320 --> 1:09:00.000 the elders were helping load up the beans that they've 1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:03.040 the other day. You know from the house that the 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:07.240 lady that makes it and then another lady Mormon lady 1:09:07.280 --> 1:09:09.519 makes us these roles and we'll just like give us 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.960 like hundreds and hundreds of bread rolls, which everybody loves, 1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:14.080 even the volunteers. 1:09:14.120 --> 1:09:17.240 Yeah, I've been eating the bread homemade roles. Yeah, it's 1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:17.840 super good. 1:09:18.360 --> 1:09:21.360 So that Yeah, like you said, mutual aid groups, anarchists, 1:09:21.920 --> 1:09:24.599 just individuals. Random people will show up they heard it. 1:09:24.640 --> 1:09:26.120 We had a couple people show up that heard it 1:09:26.160 --> 1:09:31.760 on National, NPR, KPBS, and you know, then they orgs 1:09:31.800 --> 1:09:35.519 border kindness. I'll look Gelato will come out here and 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:39.040 send volunteers and whatnot. But it's hard to really rely 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:41.000 on volunteers. Like we have a sign up sheet and 1:09:41.000 --> 1:09:42.639 everything so we can kind of gauge what the day 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:44.680 is going to be like. But sometimes people don't show up, 1:09:44.920 --> 1:09:48.920 and sometimes especially around the holiday times, it gets really 1:09:48.960 --> 1:09:51.479 thin because everybody's got their own lives and things to do. 1:09:51.600 --> 1:09:55.960 And but yeah, I mean I started volunteering just on 1:09:55.960 --> 1:09:58.320 my weekends when I was working full time at my 1:09:58.920 --> 1:10:03.200 dead end jup back at home in San Diego, and 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:05.639 I would, you know, saw the need. I was down 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:09.439 at Whiskey eight in San de Sidro pretty much every 1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:11.519 day after work and on the weekends, and then when 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:15.320 they started doing street releases at IRIS station in San Diego, 1:10:15.439 --> 1:10:19.000 I would just be there full time and on my 1:10:19.040 --> 1:10:23.080 weekends just be there until in Deaf and Haitian Bridge 1:10:23.120 --> 1:10:25.879 started showing up and kind of took in Detention Resistance 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.680 and they kind of took over that scene, and so 1:10:28.760 --> 1:10:31.599 I the need was like, oh, Jakamba needs help. 1:10:31.680 --> 1:10:32.639 So I just would come. 1:10:32.720 --> 1:10:35.160 After that, I just started coming out here every weekend 1:10:35.800 --> 1:10:38.360 from I would get off on a Thursday at like 1:10:38.439 --> 1:10:40.760 two pm, take care of my cats at home for 1:10:40.800 --> 1:10:45.160 a second, then drive out, help out whatever I could 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:47.800 by the time I got here, spend the night somehow 1:10:47.960 --> 1:10:50.640 either I never had to sleep in my car, but 1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:51.600 I would be ready to. 1:10:51.800 --> 1:10:53.720 And then I have some friends. 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:57.080 Here that would put me up for the night and 1:10:57.479 --> 1:11:01.200 stay Thursday night to Friday, call day Friday, and all 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:03.120 day Saturday until I had to go home because I 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:05.920 worked at five am on Sunday. And then all that 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:08.840 week I would just be at w Wait going down 1:11:08.880 --> 1:11:11.360 after work. And so I haven't had a day off 1:11:11.360 --> 1:11:13.760 since this really started. I mean, I think I got 1:11:13.800 --> 1:11:15.960 the flu for a week five days right am. 1:11:16.240 --> 1:11:18.160 I had a fever four or five fucking. 1:11:17.920 --> 1:11:21.720 Days in a row, which is horrible, but so not 1:11:21.760 --> 1:11:26.080 really a day off technically, but yeah, and then I 1:11:26.320 --> 1:11:28.280 since I had been coming out here every weekend and 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:30.960 dedicating my time to Hukumba and had so many ties 1:11:31.000 --> 1:11:33.120 with like the locals and I know, the people who 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:36.040 owned the hotel out here that we are currently at, 1:11:36.120 --> 1:11:40.000 and just you know, showed face and it showed a 1:11:40.040 --> 1:11:43.639 strong work ethic, I guess to help feed these people, 1:11:43.720 --> 1:11:46.000 and the passion of you know, and the amount of 1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:48.519 care that I gave and attention to these people and 1:11:48.640 --> 1:11:52.400 listening to them, and the Schultz family, who are like 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:56.200 the main on the ground people since day one were like, yeah, 1:11:56.400 --> 1:11:59.000 this this person needs to be out here. We want 1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:01.760 to have all out here full time, and I'll love 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:07.040 Clado got a grant to to basically fund that, and 1:12:07.080 --> 1:12:09.600 so once that money came through, I just took a 1:12:09.640 --> 1:12:12.519 sabbatical from my nine to five and I was like, peace, 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:16.120 I got more important things to do than give Jeff 1:12:16.160 --> 1:12:23.280 Bezos more money. You know, so he needs more yachts, clearly, Yeah, clearly, yeah, 1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:27.160 and more space trips you know. Yeah. 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:28.559 So yeah. 1:12:28.600 --> 1:12:30.920 So ever since then, I've just you know, I'm lucky 1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:33.320 enough to have that, and you know, showed that, you know, 1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:36.240 dedication to where I can be out here. And honestly, 1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:39.080 like some people may think like, oh, because I'm getting paid, 1:12:39.120 --> 1:12:41.680 I'm a boss or I'm a lead and like to me, 1:12:41.760 --> 1:12:43.479 it's like, no, we're all leading, and I'm still just 1:12:43.520 --> 1:12:44.559 doing the same work. 1:12:44.880 --> 1:12:46.679 I'm just now able to be here. 1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:50.960 Well on payroll forty eight hours a week, but in 1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:53.400 reality it's ten hour days, eight days a week. 1:12:53.520 --> 1:12:55.240 Yeah, it's all the time. 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:57.559 And like, yeah, I think it's really important that people 1:12:57.600 --> 1:12:59.559 know actually that we have a very very verseque group. 1:12:59.600 --> 1:13:03.640 It's not everybody is necessarily like committed to horizontal organizing 1:13:03.680 --> 1:13:05.120 as the be all and end all, but that's how 1:13:05.160 --> 1:13:06.559 we operate and it works really well. 1:13:07.040 --> 1:13:11.320 Yeah, especially Sam and the Quakers, they're very good at listening. 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:13.800 There's the American Friends Society. 1:13:13.439 --> 1:13:16.200 Right, Yeah, it works so well. 1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:18.840 Like when I was thinking the other day, I was 1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:21.559 out here and it was the day before the holiday, 1:13:21.600 --> 1:13:23.960 and first of all, we had this moment where this 1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:26.200 lady pulled up and she was like, hey, who's in charge. 1:13:26.439 --> 1:13:28.800 We were all like everyone's in charge, and the lady 1:13:28.880 --> 1:13:30.800 was like what how does that? How did you? And 1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:33.479 then but then like another time, we had a bit 1:13:33.520 --> 1:13:35.400 of a crisis. We ran out of balls when we're 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:38.200 trying to feed people, and like one of us came up. 1:13:38.120 --> 1:13:41.320 With yeah, and the zip blocked back. 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:43.840 Yeah, we made so we were like, we didn't have bowls, 1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:45.600 we had sandwiches, So we gave them a sandwich and 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:47.479 then took the zip block back back and filled it 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:50.320 with beans and like it. You know, it wasn't the 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:52.439 person who'd been here for the longest or done the 1:13:52.479 --> 1:13:54.720 most sessions, but it was a great idea and it 1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:57.519 got us out of a difficult situation. And like, I think, 1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:00.320 because we organize with respect for each other, we can 1:14:00.360 --> 1:14:02.600 listen to each other and incorporate those ideas and that 1:14:02.680 --> 1:14:03.759 you had something to say. 1:14:04.000 --> 1:14:07.720 Oh yeah, I just I want to highlight the community 1:14:07.520 --> 1:14:12.280 that I've seen build here. I know that in terms 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:18.000 of nine hierarchical organizing, I personally have seen you know, 1:14:19.080 --> 1:14:22.320 everyone step up and lead, even people who are there 1:14:22.360 --> 1:14:25.080 their first day. Right if there is a task to 1:14:25.160 --> 1:14:27.599 be done and they say they know how to do 1:14:27.680 --> 1:14:30.360 it and they have a good idea, they're leading it, 1:14:30.400 --> 1:14:33.960 they're spearheading it. There is you know, there's no second 1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:38.479 guessing or egos that I've seen, at least not to 1:14:38.720 --> 1:14:41.200 such a degree that it's been harmful. And I think 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:44.320 that that has given us a lot of power and 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:48.160 has allowed sort of our creativity to get us through this. 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:54.480 I think it's a testament to what non hierarchical organizing 1:14:55.640 --> 1:15:01.160 means and how you know, lack of hierarchy and lack 1:15:01.200 --> 1:15:04.000 of a dedicated leader doesn't mean a lack of leadership. 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:07.439 I think it falls on all of us to lead. 1:15:07.479 --> 1:15:10.680 It falls on all of us to bring what we 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:13.120 know to the table, whether that be from the experience 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:16.439 that we've had coming here and working here and knowing 1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:19.960 the details and the minutia of what's going on specifically 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:22.960 here in Hakamba with this project, or what we bring 1:15:23.000 --> 1:15:26.360 to the table from our past experiences. And I think 1:15:26.400 --> 1:15:31.080 that that has really beautifully coalesced into a really efficient 1:15:31.400 --> 1:15:34.720 system as best as we can do, as best as 1:15:34.720 --> 1:15:37.320 we can manage. You know, we've really made do and 1:15:37.640 --> 1:15:39.800 kept people alive in a huge way. 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:43.519 Yeah, And I think kept people alive is right, Like 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:46.240 if if I don't know how this would have gone 1:15:46.280 --> 1:15:48.040 down if we weren't here, because I don't know if 1:15:48.080 --> 1:15:51.759 they would have kept doing it, but certainly more people 1:15:51.880 --> 1:15:55.320 would have been very unwell or passed away. Like I 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:57.800 think we can all think of a different medical emergency 1:15:58.360 --> 1:16:01.679 what we've had to intervene to stop it getting much worse. 1:16:01.720 --> 1:16:03.840 Yeah, like just last week, I think, did you come 1:16:03.880 --> 1:16:07.160 out the day after something? It rained on all of 1:16:07.240 --> 1:16:09.320 us and there was like a heavy downpour. 1:16:09.400 --> 1:16:10.320 We weren't even ready. 1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:11.840 We thought it was, oh, it might be like a 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:14.040 little drizzle or it might be light rain here, and 1:16:14.040 --> 1:16:14.800 they're scattered. 1:16:15.200 --> 1:16:17.479 But then we set up and. 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:19.960 We're cooking and getting ready for to do lunch or 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:22.720 after breakfast and getting ready to do our dinner and stuff. 1:16:22.400 --> 1:16:24.240 And it just started downpouring on us. 1:16:24.240 --> 1:16:26.120 And I was driving and I told. 1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:28.320 You, oh, yeah, you shut up that day and literally 1:16:28.720 --> 1:16:30.880 like we in as we got to we were like, 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.160 oh fuck, we got it, Like move now. So we 1:16:33.320 --> 1:16:35.160 just got all the ponchos that we had a bunch 1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:37.280 of ponchos, got them all in the car, drove to 1:16:37.360 --> 1:16:40.599 the first camp that we had fed that morning, and 1:16:40.640 --> 1:16:44.720 we're just started handing out ponchos as the rain's coming down. 1:16:44.760 --> 1:16:47.760 They're walking in as you know, the coyotes dropped them off, 1:16:47.760 --> 1:16:49.920 and that's a long hike. Had the Moon camp from 1:16:49.920 --> 1:16:51.680 where they end up to where they break in the 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:55.200 wall is what thirty minute walk, ye so or so, 1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:58.800 and so they are arriving in the pouring rain, their 1:16:58.840 --> 1:17:02.840 socks are getting wet. It is super cold, especially at 1:17:02.840 --> 1:17:06.920 Moon because of the location. It's just ridiculously cold, and 1:17:06.960 --> 1:17:10.439 that's like case for hypothermia. And we're there to you know, 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:14.080 to stop them from getting so wet. We're giving them 1:17:14.080 --> 1:17:16.519 trash bags for their bags, ponchos. 1:17:16.000 --> 1:17:17.599 For their being their persons. 1:17:17.760 --> 1:17:20.320 I remember seeing this little girl, she must have been 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:23.479 like five or six, and then we had cardboard and 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:26.040 because we didn't think it was going to be so 1:17:26.120 --> 1:17:28.720 pooring before we when we loaded up the van and 1:17:28.800 --> 1:17:30.679 we had cardboard to keep you know, the ground drive 1:17:30.720 --> 1:17:32.519 for them to like lay on in their tents or whatever. 1:17:32.640 --> 1:17:35.240 And people took the cardboard out of the van and 1:17:35.280 --> 1:17:38.160 we're like blocking the rain and shielding this little child 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:40.599 from getting wet, you know. And it's super windy at 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:42.759 Moon too, at that camp. It's the location. 1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:45.919 It gets a lot of the the wind from whatever 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:47.240 that passes. 1:17:47.439 --> 1:17:50.960 Yeah, it comes up from yeah. Yeah. 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:53.240 I think everything you said, which we should probably touch on, 1:17:53.439 --> 1:17:56.160 is like perhaps it's because of the way we organize, 1:17:56.240 --> 1:17:58.439 because we don't have like strict rolls and jobs or 1:17:58.439 --> 1:18:01.280 low leadership things. But like, and you'd mentioned it before, 1:18:01.320 --> 1:18:02.920 but like nine times out of ten, we end up 1:18:02.920 --> 1:18:06.120 doing things with people, not for people. Right, Like the 1:18:06.200 --> 1:18:08.960 other day, I know, like a Kurdish guy and I 1:18:08.960 --> 1:18:11.120 set up a ton of tents, so Colombian dude and 1:18:11.160 --> 1:18:13.760 I built this amazing shelter and it wasn't for hit 1:18:13.920 --> 1:18:16.519 and his family, it was for anyone who needed it. 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:22.080 I definitely have seen that sort of collaboration with the migrants, 1:18:22.080 --> 1:18:24.800 and I feel like it doesn't. 1:18:24.439 --> 1:18:27.000 Feel like charity. It feels like mutual lid. 1:18:27.000 --> 1:18:29.120 And on top of that, when I'm hearing from them, 1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:31.040 you know they you know, they're helping us out. But 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:32.680 then on top of that, they're saying, I'm going to 1:18:32.720 --> 1:18:34.599 get processed and I'm coming back. 1:18:34.720 --> 1:18:36.560 I'm helping, and I'm. 1:18:36.960 --> 1:18:39.320 Have you been in touch with anyone who has come 1:18:39.400 --> 1:18:40.320 back yet? 1:18:41.200 --> 1:18:41.679 Well? Yeah. 1:18:41.680 --> 1:18:45.040 Actually, like early on in IRIS, when I was doing IRIS, 1:18:45.120 --> 1:18:47.000 there was like a few people that were staying a 1:18:47.040 --> 1:18:50.920 few days before they traveled onward and they just wanted 1:18:50.960 --> 1:18:52.840 to be around and help. There was also a dude 1:18:52.840 --> 1:18:55.520 we just called him Columbia because he was from Colombia. 1:18:55.880 --> 1:18:58.479 It's kind of that nickname stuck and he stuck around. 1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:01.519 I mean, he got sponsored by are pretty much loosely 1:19:01.520 --> 1:19:05.200 sponsored by one of the organizers that was helping out 1:19:05.200 --> 1:19:07.360 of Wa and he stuck around. 1:19:07.400 --> 1:19:09.080 He came out to Ukumba a bunch of times. 1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:12.280 He killed it on everything he did, cooking dishes, whatever, 1:19:12.320 --> 1:19:13.479 you know, cleaning up whatever. 1:19:13.560 --> 1:19:15.439 He just he just saw that need. 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:17.880 And yeah, I mean I've been in contact with a 1:19:17.880 --> 1:19:20.320 couple of people that said they would come out, and 1:19:20.479 --> 1:19:22.960 you know, I don't pressure them. I don't and a 1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:25.519 A I want pressure them to come out because they 1:19:25.720 --> 1:19:28.120 came here for you know, better life and all that. 1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:29.840 But at the same time, it's just hard to get 1:19:29.880 --> 1:19:32.439 back to some people because I've given them brought to 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:35.280 way too many Kurdish people to get back to everyone 1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:37.439 on WhatsApp and that's you know, I got signal, I 1:19:37.439 --> 1:19:38.400 got regular text and. 1:19:38.400 --> 1:19:40.240 Then whatsappened That kind of gets buried. 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:44.000 So Yeah, there was some Afghan folks out here in September, 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:45.920 a few afgand folks who would come out. I think 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:49.880 they had arrived either in May or perhaps earlier. But 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:51.960 there were some afcron folks who came out and we're 1:19:51.960 --> 1:19:55.479 able to help us, of course, like it's great because 1:19:55.479 --> 1:19:57.439 we don't all have all the languages we need, and 1:19:57.479 --> 1:19:59.080 we don't have all the skills we need, and so 1:19:59.200 --> 1:20:02.040 the more people we can incorporate, even if temporarily well 1:20:02.040 --> 1:20:04.920 they're here, then like the better we can help people, right. 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:09.679 Right, yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, I mean, but I think 1:20:09.920 --> 1:20:12.920 definitely the the the vibe is there that they want 1:20:12.920 --> 1:20:13.519 to come help. 1:20:13.560 --> 1:20:17.479 And yeah, like the other day I was feeding. We're 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:18.200 doing a hot. 1:20:18.040 --> 1:20:20.320 Dinner and we set up and everything, and then all 1:20:20.320 --> 1:20:22.879 these Kurdish people because I you know, will. 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:28.519 Wear this caffee like a like a scuff yeah, with 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:33.720 the scarf that that you gave me, uh all the 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:37.160 way from comieshla, and so they recognize it. 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:39.599 And then I know, the saying is bitja Kurdistan. When 1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:39.920 you know. 1:20:40.080 --> 1:20:42.600 You you from Turkey, oh you Kurdish because most of 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:45.639 the people from Turkey are Kurdish, not all the most, 1:20:46.560 --> 1:20:48.600 And so you know, we'll start talking and then you know, 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:50.679 they get all excited and then they would just want 1:20:50.680 --> 1:20:53.560 to help, you know. And I think even regardless of 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:55.559 if I said that or not, or had the scarf on, 1:20:55.600 --> 1:20:56.800 they would still just want to help. 1:20:56.880 --> 1:20:57.879 Remember one time. 1:20:57.880 --> 1:21:00.360 I was surrounded, it was just me serve being one 1:21:00.400 --> 1:21:03.760 of the things because we'll serve multiple things water like 1:21:03.800 --> 1:21:06.000 a soup, and then a rice or a bread or whatever, 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:08.519 and then maybe some hand wipes or something. And so 1:21:08.600 --> 1:21:10.280 we just had it was just me in the middle, 1:21:10.280 --> 1:21:12.559 surrounded my Kurdish people, and I remember the dude next 1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:12.760 to me. 1:21:13.120 --> 1:21:14.720 It was just like someone videotape. 1:21:14.800 --> 1:21:19.679 Yeah, we Kurdish people help really well, yeah, tell the world, 1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:20.120 you know. 1:21:21.120 --> 1:21:24.040 Yeah, and then like even yeah, when we're not doing 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:25.800 food soup, it's like guys will often come up to 1:21:25.840 --> 1:21:28.439 me and be like, hey, do you have bin bags. 1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:30.160 We'd like to clean up. We'd like it's a mess 1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:31.200 here and we'd like to clean up. 1:21:31.720 --> 1:21:33.720 Yeah, we're unloading every time I'm loading, Like that's as 1:21:33.720 --> 1:21:37.080 cell phone charging station. Everyone like it doesn't matter, you 1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:40.320 know what nationality. Someone is there to help. They're like, oh, 1:21:40.400 --> 1:21:41.920 can I grab the table? Can I do this? How 1:21:41.920 --> 1:21:42.479 can I plug this? 1:21:42.520 --> 1:21:44.000 In a lot of times there plugging and I'm like, no, 1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:46.320 I got this the certain way. I like to plug 1:21:46.320 --> 1:21:48.000 this all in that makes sense and. 1:21:48.720 --> 1:21:50.280 Relatively high risk activity. 1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.880 I don't want any electrocution or like the other day, 1:21:53.880 --> 1:21:55.479 I was chomping some stuff with an axe and a 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:56.840 guy wanted to help and I was like, look, if 1:21:56.840 --> 1:21:58.599 I hurt myself, then I can get to hospital. If 1:21:58.600 --> 1:22:00.479 you hurt yourself, it's going to be a rough I 1:22:00.560 --> 1:22:00.880 mean that. 1:22:00.880 --> 1:22:04.120 Could have been a stick it out. Yea, he might 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:05.719 have purposely hurt himself at that point. 1:22:05.600 --> 1:22:06.599 He had his whole family. 1:22:06.800 --> 1:22:10.599 Yeah, but yeah, we build shelters and like, some people 1:22:10.600 --> 1:22:12.000 are are really good at that, and they're good at 1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:13.920 tying knots, and they're good at seeing things in three 1:22:14.000 --> 1:22:16.360 D and some people are not. So like often just 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:18.720 get a team of people who can help, and then 1:22:18.760 --> 1:22:21.519 you'll get a team of people who need shelter. So 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:23.800 we'll just career to round booting shelters for people. And 1:22:23.840 --> 1:22:26.920 it's fun, Like it can't I'm sure it's not a 1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:29.479 very stimulating environment out there, you know. So being engaged 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:31.960 in a talk, completing stuff and helping people, I'm sure 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:33.040 he's rewarding. 1:22:32.760 --> 1:22:34.840 Or like, yeah, even tonight we had a dude from 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:38.840 Turkey who just like was holding his head. Tia one 1:22:38.880 --> 1:22:42.839 of our local residents. She lives around here. Medically, she's 1:22:43.920 --> 1:22:46.240 doesn't have a whole lot of medical experience other than 1:22:46.280 --> 1:22:49.120 being a mother or a grandmother and working in as 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:51.160 a pharmacy tech and knowing a little bit about it 1:22:51.200 --> 1:22:55.200 and learning and being super badass. She came to me 1:22:55.240 --> 1:22:57.880 and she's like, look, this guy has a headache. Here's 1:22:57.920 --> 1:23:00.680 a migraine, and he has medication from so this is 1:23:00.720 --> 1:23:04.719 obviously like an ongoing situation. And my eyes were hurting 1:23:04.800 --> 1:23:07.040 just from all the smoke from the fires that they 1:23:07.080 --> 1:23:07.960 were starting. 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:08.160 In the area. 1:23:08.320 --> 1:23:11.320 And he's just sitting there holding his head, clearly, just 1:23:11.560 --> 1:23:15.240 absolutely miserable. So she took him in her car just 1:23:15.280 --> 1:23:17.320 to like give some heater and to warm them up 1:23:17.320 --> 1:23:18.840 and to try to make him feel better, get him 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:21.160 away from the smoke. And she's like, yo, we gotta 1:23:21.200 --> 1:23:23.880 get this guy. He's here traveling alone from Turkey. He 1:23:23.920 --> 1:23:26.960 doesn't have anybody. So we went and found some more 1:23:27.360 --> 1:23:29.080 I think he was Kurdish as well. We went and 1:23:29.080 --> 1:23:33.920 found another Turkish person or Kurdish person from Turkey, and 1:23:34.000 --> 1:23:36.240 I grabbed this this person and I was like, hey, 1:23:36.320 --> 1:23:39.920 I have somebody here who has a gnarly migraine and 1:23:40.120 --> 1:23:40.840 they just they. 1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:42.960 Need their heir alone. They don't have shelter they need. 1:23:43.200 --> 1:23:45.439 And so this guy came over and talked to him 1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:46.880 and was like, look I got we got a tent 1:23:46.920 --> 1:23:49.519 over here, come camp with us. Like that's the kind 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:51.600 of shit that we have to deal with, you know 1:23:51.680 --> 1:23:54.080 what I mean, Just like the migrants will like getting 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:56.400 a migrant to help another migrant, you know, it's just 1:23:56.439 --> 1:23:57.560 like it's community. 1:23:57.640 --> 1:23:59.519 That's what like Mutual eight is about. 1:24:00.360 --> 1:24:04.120 I think that and that specific situation, I had been 1:24:04.360 --> 1:24:07.000 talking to the group that took him in. I had 1:24:07.040 --> 1:24:08.560 been talking with them and chatting with him, and I 1:24:08.600 --> 1:24:10.760 sat by the fire with them just talking about you know, 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:13.400 what was your experience like and trying to get warm 1:24:13.439 --> 1:24:16.160 because God, it's cold out there, even for us volunteers, 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:18.439 and you know, we're far away from the fires, and 1:24:18.720 --> 1:24:21.639 it's really hard because you know, this road is cleared 1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:25.000 and so there's you know, there's no warmth out there 1:24:25.520 --> 1:24:29.160 by where they have to stand to get food. But 1:24:29.240 --> 1:24:30.760 what do I what I want out of highlight was 1:24:30.800 --> 1:24:35.519 that because we are interacting with these people as equals, 1:24:35.520 --> 1:24:37.799 because we are coming here and seeing them as people, 1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:41.200 and we spend the time to talk with them and 1:24:41.320 --> 1:24:45.040 to build commune with them, we can build those connections 1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:48.960 which allow people like the gentleman with the migraine to 1:24:49.479 --> 1:24:52.599 you know, be taken in and to have, you know, 1:24:52.720 --> 1:24:56.439 basically a temporary family while he's there and make sure 1:24:56.439 --> 1:24:59.439 that he's taken care of. And that's I think something 1:24:59.479 --> 1:25:03.479 that really highlights the strength of this type of organization 1:25:03.560 --> 1:25:06.120 and this type of work and this type of you know, 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:09.640 the way that our politics, the way that our ideals 1:25:10.880 --> 1:25:12.679 really shine in this kind of setting. 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:16.559 Yeah, I think it's right. Like I've been around a 1:25:16.600 --> 1:25:19.800 lot of humanitarian crises and you know, refuse situations, and 1:25:19.840 --> 1:25:21.920 I think we're doing it really excellent. Do you have 1:25:21.960 --> 1:25:25.400 a stectually given the minimal funding and and sort of 1:25:25.680 --> 1:25:28.360 scale of access to resources that we have, we could 1:25:28.360 --> 1:25:29.599 do a lot more if we had a lot more money, 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:30.520 but we don't. 1:25:31.280 --> 1:25:37.840 You know, we're cooking on like a fucking burner with us. Yeah, 1:25:38.040 --> 1:25:39.760 we took up to a pro painting that's made out 1:25:39.800 --> 1:25:42.000 of an old cag that's just like if you turn 1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:44.760 it on wrong and let the gas bleed, you will 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:48.800 blow yourself up. So it's just like like Sam Shaw is, 1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:51.240 you know, responsible for everybody at the youth center where 1:25:51.280 --> 1:25:53.759 we do stuff, So he doesn't really like other people cooking, 1:25:53.840 --> 1:25:55.120 does it. I Mean, even though I know how to 1:25:55.160 --> 1:25:56.720 do it, he's like, doesn't even like me doing it 1:25:56.760 --> 1:25:59.160 because he's responsible for me if anything were to happen. 1:25:59.240 --> 1:26:02.439 So it's like our capacity is super limited. We don't 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:04.720 have enough burners, we don't have enough containers. So we 1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:07.600 have a couple one really nice like locking containers that 1:26:07.640 --> 1:26:09.400 hold hot food and keep the food hot, but not 1:26:09.600 --> 1:26:13.439 enough to serve upwards of six hundred people at all 1:26:13.479 --> 1:26:16.640 three camps, and not enough vans, like it would be ideal, 1:26:17.200 --> 1:26:20.240 like in my situation to send a van that has 1:26:20.600 --> 1:26:24.240 charging capabilities to charge everybody's cell phone, to feed everybody, 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:27.799 to give them water and all their needs, blankets, medical 1:26:28.320 --> 1:26:31.200 to each camp all at once. Instead of us driving, 1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:33.640 it's cooking a massive amount of food of the UTH 1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:37.120 center and hoping we have enough to hit all three camps. 1:26:37.200 --> 1:26:39.360 Because the numbers we can try to call border patrol 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:42.160 offices and get numbers, but the numbers are always a 1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:45.040 little skewed or just off, you know, or sometimes lately 1:26:45.080 --> 1:26:47.840 they have just been straight up not giving us the 1:26:47.880 --> 1:26:50.000 fucking numbers, like being dicks. 1:26:50.080 --> 1:26:52.280 Especially uh Campo. 1:26:53.600 --> 1:26:56.559 Border Patrol Office, which because we deal with two different 1:26:56.840 --> 1:26:59.719 Campo takes care of the boulevard open. 1:26:59.600 --> 1:27:03.439 Air to time and say, and then the Boulevard Border 1:27:03.520 --> 1:27:04.519 Vitel takes care. 1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:07.840 Of the willows in the moon camp in a kamba 1:27:08.000 --> 1:27:13.280 and straight up the boulevard Border Patrol called Campo Nazis. 1:27:13.320 --> 1:27:15.880 Like they treat their employees like nats. They're just Nazis, 1:27:15.920 --> 1:27:17.240 and I've seen it in fact. 1:27:17.439 --> 1:27:20.040 Yeah, but yeah, like we have to interact with board 1:27:20.080 --> 1:27:23.439 patrol a lot to get people the help that they need, right, 1:27:23.479 --> 1:27:25.880 but like, yeah, they're definitely some cases where like there 1:27:25.880 --> 1:27:29.080 have been certain people who are they the agent I 1:27:29.080 --> 1:27:31.519 spoke to you today for a border puol agent. He 1:27:31.560 --> 1:27:33.560 was very accommodating. He took the person who was in 1:27:33.600 --> 1:27:37.320 medical distress and their partner. He drove them himself to 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:40.920 where they could be ms and ensure that the pretuity 1:27:40.960 --> 1:27:43.280 they go to hospital, Like I don't have a whole 1:27:43.280 --> 1:27:45.280 lot of knowledge what happened afterwards that we don't have. 1:27:45.479 --> 1:27:48.600 We're not entitled to their private medical information and not 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:51.280 should we be. But like other times, it could be 1:27:51.400 --> 1:27:54.000 much harder. So it's just luck of the drawer, right, 1:27:54.040 --> 1:27:57.679 Like we there's so much we don't control, I guess, yeah, 1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:02.000 and like we don't know exactly, Like we can't control 1:28:02.040 --> 1:28:04.599 who goes when, who has the highest level of need, 1:28:04.640 --> 1:28:06.479 you know, like constantly people are be coming up to 1:28:06.479 --> 1:28:09.000 me and being like, hey, like today I was warming 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:11.360 up milk for babies in my camping stove right and 1:28:11.439 --> 1:28:12.720 it was three or four babies, and they were like, 1:28:12.760 --> 1:28:14.400 do you think they'll take us first? We have babies, 1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:17.439 And like, I think most of the people there would 1:28:17.560 --> 1:28:19.840 rather give up their space and let that baby go 1:28:19.880 --> 1:28:21.599 out because no one wants to see a fucking baby 1:28:21.640 --> 1:28:26.040 shivering out there, like it's fucked, it's terrible, but we 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:27.960 don't know, and we can't tell you and we can't 1:28:27.960 --> 1:28:31.559 help you. And so like a lot of that stuff's 1:28:31.560 --> 1:28:33.799 outside of our control. But the stuff that's within our control, 1:28:33.880 --> 1:28:36.479 I think we've done a really good job of. I 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:39.800 wonder like if people are listening, I think I just 1:28:39.800 --> 1:28:41.680 want to convey that we're all just weird, like a 1:28:41.680 --> 1:28:47.160 group of like we're not like ragcaging, extremely like Motley Crue, 1:28:48.080 --> 1:28:50.800 and but we we're really doing excellent work. I think 1:28:51.520 --> 1:28:54.040 if it may blow our trumpet, but like if people 1:28:54.040 --> 1:28:56.719 want to come and help, first of all, I would 1:28:56.800 --> 1:29:00.920 like you probably can people think that they can't didn't 1:29:00.920 --> 1:29:02.479 have anything useful like a bag problem with you do 1:29:02.800 --> 1:29:05.240 like if you can, if you can like lift a 1:29:05.280 --> 1:29:08.479 ladle or like a palette of water bottles, or drive 1:29:08.560 --> 1:29:10.680 a vehicle, or like. 1:29:11.439 --> 1:29:16.720 Multip multiple languages, sometimes it's like yeah, or even just right, 1:29:16.840 --> 1:29:19.760 or even just one language other than English, because I 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:23.400 mean even some people speak perfectly English out there, and 1:29:23.439 --> 1:29:26.280 so just going out there and paying attention to them, 1:29:26.320 --> 1:29:29.000 even if you don't have the capacity to cook food 1:29:29.160 --> 1:29:31.600 or to serve food or whatever, if you can go 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:34.519 talk to people and you're sociable and you can make 1:29:34.520 --> 1:29:36.320 connections and listen to their needs. 1:29:36.360 --> 1:29:37.120 And you know, there's. 1:29:36.960 --> 1:29:40.240 Google Translate, there's we have a list of translators, like 1:29:40.280 --> 1:29:43.840 a form with numbers, so if you have a language barrier, 1:29:43.880 --> 1:29:46.000 you can just call start calling down the line of 1:29:46.080 --> 1:29:48.840 numbers of Mandarin or this language or that language, and 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:50.479 you can get I got a hold of somebody one 1:29:50.520 --> 1:29:53.200 time for Mandarin to figure out how many days they 1:29:53.200 --> 1:29:55.200 had been there, and it was like called a couple 1:29:55.240 --> 1:29:57.680 of people, first no answer, and then finally someone picked up. 1:29:57.720 --> 1:30:01.080 And so it's yeah, you know, anybody always you could 1:30:01.120 --> 1:30:04.920 always find something. Honestly, one thing that I missed doing, 1:30:04.960 --> 1:30:07.000 which when I first started coming out here, we had 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:10.240 a little bit more volunteers, especially I was coming out 1:30:10.280 --> 1:30:12.880 on the weekends, when the weekends typically we have more 1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:15.160 volunteers because people have jobs and the weekdays and week 1:30:15.280 --> 1:30:18.000 days we have less. But I was when I first 1:30:18.040 --> 1:30:20.599 started coming out to Komba on the weekends, I started 1:30:20.600 --> 1:30:23.080 bringing my guitar and my bongos and my you know, 1:30:23.120 --> 1:30:27.080 different instruments, tambourines, and I remember we gave out all 1:30:27.080 --> 1:30:29.599 the instruments to the migrants at night while we were 1:30:29.640 --> 1:30:32.439 giving them dinner to they were around the campfire and 1:30:32.479 --> 1:30:35.160 so that they can play and enjoy themselves and lift 1:30:35.200 --> 1:30:37.720 their spirits and so like that would be rad to 1:30:37.760 --> 1:30:39.960 have somebody on spot all the time with a guitar 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:43.040 and like jamming with the migrants and lifting their spirits 1:30:43.080 --> 1:30:46.040 because it's they're miserable. And one dude from Muzbekistan once 1:30:46.080 --> 1:30:49.880 told me spoke really good English, and in fact he 1:30:49.920 --> 1:30:52.000 told me about there's like commercials and so he worked 1:30:52.040 --> 1:30:55.360 at like a center where they send people over here. 1:30:55.600 --> 1:30:55.840 Wow. 1:30:56.000 --> 1:30:57.960 Yeah, like he was on the call center or whatever 1:30:58.040 --> 1:31:00.880 for it or something like that. But well, I was like, well, 1:31:01.000 --> 1:31:02.599 like how was it? Like I he was like, honestly, 1:31:02.640 --> 1:31:05.800 we're just bored. Yeah, like they're just waiting and at 1:31:05.800 --> 1:31:08.839 that time, like the weights were like four or five days. 1:31:08.960 --> 1:31:11.599 You know, it changes, it vary. 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.880 As it goes from two to three to four or five, 1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:16.479 and the distensions, and sometimes they get out the same 1:31:16.520 --> 1:31:20.519 day if they're lucky. But yeah, it was just we're 1:31:20.560 --> 1:31:22.840 bored and we're just waiting and they're anxious, and which 1:31:22.880 --> 1:31:25.280 also just tears at their spirit while they're you know, 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:27.840 their first day in America, you know. 1:31:27.960 --> 1:31:31.160 Yeah, exactly, Yeah, like welcome to America, sleeping with Jesseet. 1:31:31.200 --> 1:31:33.160 It's like just above freezing. 1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:38.120 Yeah, and here's no blankets, no structures, no anything, no food, 1:31:38.240 --> 1:31:40.760 no water, and if you're lucky, border patrol will bring 1:31:40.800 --> 1:31:43.040 crackers and water for not enough people. 1:31:43.400 --> 1:31:45.960 Yeah, and yeah, a bunch of US waiters turn up 1:31:45.960 --> 1:31:47.479 with blankets and that's it. 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:48.880 Yeah. 1:31:49.320 --> 1:31:52.240 And I know that even if it's you know, I 1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:56.519 try and include other people. But even just like I 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:58.400 go out there with my guitar sometimes and there's a 1:31:58.439 --> 1:32:00.759 lull and or we're waiting to pack up or whatever, 1:32:00.800 --> 1:32:04.479 and I'll be playing and I think that little moments 1:32:04.520 --> 1:32:08.640 like that mean everything for these folks. And I know 1:32:08.720 --> 1:32:11.040 that I've you know, I'll bring up that I have. 1:32:11.479 --> 1:32:13.320 You know, on a day that I don't have my guitar, 1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:15.639 I'll bring up that I play it and the migrants 1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:17.519 will be all excited, wanting me to bring it out 1:32:17.600 --> 1:32:20.960 or wanting me to to you know, whatever the activity 1:32:21.000 --> 1:32:25.320 may be, just to stimulate, you know, their minds a 1:32:25.360 --> 1:32:28.839 little bit. I mean, this is it's it's really bleak 1:32:29.160 --> 1:32:35.479 and being there for for days, for just stuck in 1:32:35.760 --> 1:32:39.639 the desert with nothing to do, right, And I mean sometimes, 1:32:39.640 --> 1:32:41.800 you know, I've seen a soccer ball out there that 1:32:41.840 --> 1:32:44.599 the kids play with, and that's that's so heartwight warming. 1:32:44.640 --> 1:32:47.920 Things like that that really, you know, we want these 1:32:47.960 --> 1:32:51.560 people to feel like they can still be in community 1:32:51.560 --> 1:32:54.680 with each other like they're not. And I feel like 1:32:54.760 --> 1:32:58.720 things like that really help to repair that sense of 1:32:58.760 --> 1:33:03.320 desperation because right now, with the level of desperation, we 1:33:03.360 --> 1:33:04.960 do see a lot of fighting for supplies, a lot 1:33:05.000 --> 1:33:09.240 of fighting for resources because it's it's hard. It's hard 1:33:09.280 --> 1:33:11.880 out there. People want to make sure that their kids 1:33:11.880 --> 1:33:16.439 have blankets. People are so cold they can't sleep, and 1:33:16.680 --> 1:33:21.120 I feel like things that bring them together, activities that 1:33:21.640 --> 1:33:24.840 really make them feel like a community out there and 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:28.479 help us feel in community with them allows us to 1:33:28.520 --> 1:33:30.960 have a more cohesive relationship and allows things to go 1:33:31.080 --> 1:33:34.879 more smoothly. And I think it's, you know, in some cases, 1:33:34.960 --> 1:33:38.800 more important than the supplies themselves, because it makes sure 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:41.000 that they go to the right places. It helps us triage, 1:33:41.040 --> 1:33:45.080 It helps us, you know, it's its own tool for 1:33:45.160 --> 1:33:47.200 survivals from. 1:33:47.640 --> 1:33:50.360 It, it could distract them from their suffering. You know, 1:33:50.439 --> 1:33:52.680 if they can have an ounce of joy, you know, 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:56.960 and this horrible condition, in these horrible conditions, it'll distract 1:33:56.960 --> 1:34:00.680 them enough to smile and to laugh and to not 1:34:00.760 --> 1:34:01.480 be miserable. 1:34:01.840 --> 1:34:03.800 Yeah, I have a normal moment. Yeah. 1:34:03.840 --> 1:34:07.360 So I wonder if people want to help, what other 1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:09.160 ways that they can help. 1:34:10.439 --> 1:34:13.639 Ways it can help are are coming out here directly, 1:34:13.720 --> 1:34:19.040 hands on the ground. Money donating money is another huge 1:34:19.080 --> 1:34:22.559 need because a lot of the supplies that we need 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:26.640 cost money. We need a new kitchen, We need you know, 1:34:26.720 --> 1:34:30.800 a dishwashing station because we're currently just dumping all of 1:34:30.800 --> 1:34:33.040 our dish washing water into a lawn that has a 1:34:33.080 --> 1:34:40.479 small drain. Yeah, and yeah, I look to Alatto is 1:34:40.520 --> 1:34:44.600 one organization that takes money that you can donate to. 1:34:44.920 --> 1:34:46.639 Border Kindness is another one. 1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:50.200 Yeah, I know, Detention Resistance is out here a lot. 1:34:50.800 --> 1:34:54.439 The most direct way too, is would be donating directly 1:34:54.439 --> 1:34:55.719 to Sam Schultz himself. 1:34:56.360 --> 1:34:56.559 Yeah. 1:34:57.920 --> 1:35:03.400 So yeah, and just you know, following those same organizations, 1:35:03.400 --> 1:35:05.400 They're a Free Shit Collective is another one. 1:35:05.439 --> 1:35:07.120 They mostly focus on W eight. 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:10.519 But this is all related, right, Like, I we had 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:14.200 this man from Turkey who came with his dog bom 1:35:14.360 --> 1:35:17.120 bomb or bam bam, like he said Flintstones, but they 1:35:17.120 --> 1:35:20.760 say bomb bomb, I guess. And he was stuck in 1:35:21.280 --> 1:35:23.760 one of the camps and so you know, we re 1:35:24.200 --> 1:35:27.000 like took his dog because he was not going to 1:35:27.080 --> 1:35:29.080 be taken from the camp. He spent the night alone 1:35:29.240 --> 1:35:31.280 because they had enough room for him. They're just like, 1:35:31.320 --> 1:35:33.439 they don't know how to process a fucking dog, I guess. 1:35:34.000 --> 1:35:36.320 So we took his dog for him and so he 1:35:36.320 --> 1:35:38.519 could get processed. And once he ended up out of 1:35:38.560 --> 1:35:42.360 detention at Central, which is where they released them, we 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:46.559 reunited his dog with him. Very emotional on both sides 1:35:46.600 --> 1:35:47.760 of the separation. 1:35:47.400 --> 1:35:48.320 And the reuniting. 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:52.559 So you know, there's all these organizations you can you know, 1:35:52.680 --> 1:35:55.479 volunteer down in Central at the when they release you 1:35:55.520 --> 1:35:59.200 can you know this and so yeah, but following all 1:35:59.200 --> 1:36:00.799 these accounts share the stories. 1:36:00.880 --> 1:36:01.479 You know what I mean. 1:36:01.680 --> 1:36:04.880 On your social medias be it Twitter, I'll never call 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:09.479 it the other thing, or you know, Instagram, Facebook, whatever 1:36:09.600 --> 1:36:10.320 your media is. 1:36:10.360 --> 1:36:11.679 Discord YadA YadA. 1:36:13.400 --> 1:36:15.639 Yeah, I think even sharing the stories is really powerful. 1:36:15.720 --> 1:36:18.080 People could translate, they can reach out, they want to 1:36:18.120 --> 1:36:21.080 do that. I looked up the r L it's for 1:36:21.200 --> 1:36:25.560 border Kindness. It's link tr dot ee slash border kindness, 1:36:26.040 --> 1:36:30.320 and for it's al alado a l O t r 1:36:30.400 --> 1:36:34.120 O l a d o dot org slash donate. 1:36:35.120 --> 1:36:37.240 And they pay me to be out here, so please 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:37.920 don't it to them. 1:36:38.360 --> 1:36:42.080 Yeah, yeah, help them border kindas. Jackie and James are great, 1:36:42.120 --> 1:36:45.320 They're always out here. It's yeah, either one is wonderful. 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:46.000 Yeah. 1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:49.799 I also wanted to highlight the lovely mutual aid groups 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:52.719 that do a lot of work. There's not as many 1:36:52.840 --> 1:36:55.519 of them directly putting their efforts out here, but I 1:36:55.560 --> 1:36:57.840 know that they have helped me work out here and 1:36:57.880 --> 1:37:00.040 make sure that I have the funds I need to, 1:37:00.040 --> 1:37:04.000 you know, do little store runs that are necessary on 1:37:04.040 --> 1:37:06.360 a on a moment's notice at times because we we 1:37:06.479 --> 1:37:08.840 run out of something and we can't wait for a 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:13.439 bulk order supply and the you know there. There are 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:15.680 these mutual aid groups, you know, they they put in 1:37:15.720 --> 1:37:19.760 the work to reimburse folks when we do things like that, 1:37:19.800 --> 1:37:23.360 when we have to go make runs because we can't 1:37:23.400 --> 1:37:26.080 bulk order, we can't do it the most efficient way 1:37:26.120 --> 1:37:29.800 because we have a need right now. And that has 1:37:30.520 --> 1:37:33.200 saved us in a lot of different moments, especially I 1:37:33.280 --> 1:37:36.400 used to volunteer down at W eight in sanny Sidro, 1:37:37.320 --> 1:37:40.320 and that was the primary way that we got resources 1:37:41.320 --> 1:37:46.639 was through these mutual aid groups who who fundraise and 1:37:46.640 --> 1:37:48.760 and I yeah, I just wanted to highlight them and 1:37:49.080 --> 1:37:54.280 highlight the So there's the Rose Cup Collective. I know 1:37:54.360 --> 1:37:57.080 that they do a lot of fundraising. I know that 1:37:57.160 --> 1:38:01.800 you were saying free Ship, Free Shit Collective. There's a 1:38:01.800 --> 1:38:05.120 few freestore SD Yeah, there's a there's a few different 1:38:05.120 --> 1:38:09.519 ones who you know, their funds help keep us running, 1:38:09.720 --> 1:38:12.760 especially in the hardest of times right now. 1:38:13.280 --> 1:38:17.280 Yeah, because we're all broke. We're so broke. We we 1:38:17.479 --> 1:38:19.759 have no money, any money. 1:38:20.400 --> 1:38:23.400 I'm on the migrant diet because I'm broke and eating 1:38:23.439 --> 1:38:25.680 the food that we feed them when there's leftovers. 1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:26.200 Yeah. 1:38:26.280 --> 1:38:27.880 Yeah, we've been a lot of PB and J and 1:38:27.920 --> 1:38:32.599 beans help us, help us feed ourselves and that was wonderful. 1:38:32.960 --> 1:38:35.599 Thank you so much. Yeah, everyone listening to your. 1:38:35.520 --> 1:38:38.400 Do name, thank you. Yeah, and come down here. 1:38:38.400 --> 1:38:41.320 If someone came from San Francisco in May, come back, 1:38:42.200 --> 1:38:43.920 Like there are places you can stay are in the 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:45.519 desert if you want to come and help. But even 1:38:45.720 --> 1:38:48.840 if you have language skills like we there were so 1:38:48.880 --> 1:38:49.760 many ways you can help. 1:38:50.360 --> 1:38:50.840 Come down. 1:38:51.600 --> 1:38:55.479 I've always had a place to stay, even though I like, 1:38:55.479 --> 1:38:58.040 like of all I've I've always been ready to sleep 1:38:58.080 --> 1:38:59.639 in my van, but always had a spot to say, 1:38:59.680 --> 1:39:05.320 come down. It's you know, it's worth it. It's there's 1:39:05.320 --> 1:39:08.600 a vortex they called the locals call it. Call it 1:39:08.640 --> 1:39:11.320 a vortex. You know. You you come here and it's 1:39:11.360 --> 1:39:14.960 like every past lifetime has has been here, and you're 1:39:15.040 --> 1:39:17.400 you're destined to be here. There's something special about this 1:39:17.520 --> 1:39:20.160 town and I've really fallen in love with it since coming. 1:39:20.760 --> 1:39:22.479 Yeah. Yeah, I hope more people come. 1:39:22.920 --> 1:39:25.200 It would mean a lot to me if like we 1:39:25.240 --> 1:39:28.360 could do something cool and like further support something that's 1:39:28.439 --> 1:39:30.080 very important to me and I think very important for 1:39:30.120 --> 1:39:30.439 the world. 1:39:31.360 --> 1:39:32.800 Totally. It's sick. 1:39:49.160 --> 1:39:53.080 Oh boy, howdy, welcome back to It could happen here. 1:39:53.560 --> 1:39:58.880 A podcast about about those wacky gen Z kids. Uh, 1:39:59.160 --> 1:40:03.080 and how all of the things that the mainstream media 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:06.200 used to say about millennials I have now embraced to 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:09.479 say about gen Z who are destroying the world through 1:40:09.520 --> 1:40:18.640 their through their greed and evilness and good knees comparatively. Yeah, Miah, 1:40:18.680 --> 1:40:20.000 how are you doing? You're you're gen Z? 1:40:20.240 --> 1:40:20.400 Right? 1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:25.640 Yeah, so I'm on okay, I am on the exact 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:29.600 borderline of I am either the oldest Zoomer or the 1:40:29.640 --> 1:40:30.600 youngest millennial. 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:33.800 So you're you're a day walker, right like you're the 1:40:33.880 --> 1:40:38.040 you're the Blade of gen Z. Yeah, yeah, okay, so 1:40:38.120 --> 1:40:40.160 you could go out in the sunlight onions, but you 1:40:40.240 --> 1:40:41.160 still need blood. 1:40:41.360 --> 1:40:42.559 Yeah, I get it, I get it. 1:40:42.640 --> 1:40:46.240 Yeah, who's the Chris Christal I guess I'm the Chris Christofferson. 1:40:46.320 --> 1:40:50.120 If we're doing the original Blade movie, which I watched 1:40:50.160 --> 1:40:53.640 over Thanksaving Break, pretty good. I hadn't seen it in 1:40:53.720 --> 1:40:57.759 like fucking twenty years, but solid movie, solid movie. 1:40:57.840 --> 1:40:59.960 I feel like it's kind of downhill from the Blood Rim. 1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:02.240 But the Blood Rave is pretty sick. It's all every 1:41:02.320 --> 1:41:06.880 everything in culture was downhill from Blood Rave. But yeah, 1:41:06.960 --> 1:41:09.880 it's got some it's got some good bits to it still, 1:41:11.320 --> 1:41:15.200 you know what doesn't have good bits to it the 1:41:15.200 --> 1:41:16.400 institution of marriage. 1:41:17.400 --> 1:41:21.320 That I mean, I don't disagree with that, but I 1:41:21.360 --> 1:41:24.160 was going to say the Washington Post editorial. 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:27.360 Board, Ah, you know, yeah, so. 1:41:27.840 --> 1:41:30.000 We are talking is that this is an episode about 1:41:30.400 --> 1:41:33.280 some gin z panic shit that came out recently that 1:41:33.520 --> 1:41:36.519 I felt was worth digging into because of the pretty 1:41:36.560 --> 1:41:39.680 interesting ways in which it's wrong if you were, you know, 1:41:39.800 --> 1:41:43.240 celebrating being with your family, eating turkey or just shooting 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:47.000 up Heroin alone in the bathroom. Last week, on November 1:41:47.040 --> 1:41:50.639 twenty second, twenty twenty three, the Washington Post Editorial Board 1:41:50.680 --> 1:41:54.640 published an opinion column with the provocative title, if attitudes 1:41:54.720 --> 1:41:58.599 don't shift, a political dating mismatch will threaten marriage. 1:41:59.000 --> 1:42:04.840 Hell yeah, yeah, I want this destroy the institution. 1:42:05.080 --> 1:42:08.559 Yeah yeah, we're doing this through a political dating mismatch. 1:42:08.640 --> 1:42:08.840 Now. 1:42:09.200 --> 1:42:14.599 I think an article with roughly this premise drops every year, 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.599 sometimes a couple of times a year, on a couple 1:42:17.600 --> 1:42:20.200 of different places. This time it came in through the 1:42:20.240 --> 1:42:23.439 Washington Post Editorial Board, and the basic premise of this 1:42:23.520 --> 1:42:27.800 specific article is that gen Z and millennial men are 1:42:27.840 --> 1:42:33.120 growing more conservative while women are growing more progressive. This 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:37.360 threatens marriage as an institution because all these closed minded 1:42:37.439 --> 1:42:41.519 gen Z lib broads won't date Republicans right. That is 1:42:41.560 --> 1:42:44.400 literally like the point of the article is a gen 1:42:44.520 --> 1:42:47.160 Z liberal women they are less willing to date outside 1:42:47.200 --> 1:42:50.800 of their political beliefs, and men are getting more conservative, 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:55.560 so it's really a danger for marriage. Now, I understand 1:42:55.600 --> 1:42:58.000 if your first impulse is to say something like, well, 1:42:58.080 --> 1:43:00.800 when has the Washington Post editorial board ever been right 1:43:00.840 --> 1:43:03.920 about a single goddamn thing? And that is a correct 1:43:04.000 --> 1:43:04.800 attitude to have. 1:43:05.080 --> 1:43:08.679 Sometimes they make the decision not to publish an article. 1:43:09.200 --> 1:43:11.400 There are some days where they don't write anything. 1:43:11.880 --> 1:43:13.880 Yeah, you have to. That is a good decision. If 1:43:13.880 --> 1:43:16.599 they made that decision every day, I would be fully 1:43:16.600 --> 1:43:19.760 supportive of the Washington Post editorial board. And if they'll 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:23.200 hire me, I can make that decision for them every day. 1:43:23.240 --> 1:43:27.880 I'm very good at not doing anything. That said, even 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:31.240 though it is correct to say the Washington Post editorial 1:43:31.240 --> 1:43:35.719 boarder basically always wrong, I've still run into overwhelming numbers 1:43:35.720 --> 1:43:38.120 of my peers who think this article is silly, but 1:43:38.280 --> 1:43:42.240 still buy into the basic points in this piece. This 1:43:42.360 --> 1:43:45.599 is generally married to a widespread belief which is actually 1:43:45.640 --> 1:43:49.240 cited in the article that toxic male influencers like Andrew 1:43:49.280 --> 1:43:52.120 Tait have tilted huge numbers of young men to the right. 1:43:52.200 --> 1:43:54.200 So even though people will be like, well, it's stupid 1:43:54.240 --> 1:43:56.759 to expect people to date, you know, folks who believe 1:43:56.920 --> 1:43:59.880 horrible political things that would hurt them, it's true that 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:02.960 men are getting more young men are getting more conservative, right, 1:44:03.000 --> 1:44:07.799 and this is I think generally down to this belief 1:44:07.880 --> 1:44:10.439 that has I don't think people examine often. They just 1:44:10.479 --> 1:44:13.880 sort of like they get concerned about the popularity of 1:44:13.880 --> 1:44:17.559 guys like Tate, which is valid, he's concerning, but assume 1:44:17.600 --> 1:44:20.519 that does mean that, like, yeah, we're losing the young men. 1:44:20.560 --> 1:44:24.280 They've all been tilted towards these guys. And so without 1:44:24.320 --> 1:44:27.680 discounting the damage of dudes like Tate, I wanted to 1:44:27.680 --> 1:44:30.599 give a breakdown of how common the so called right 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:34.880 word tilt of young men actually is because spoilers, this 1:44:34.920 --> 1:44:37.559 is a pernicious bit of disinformation, and I think it 1:44:37.680 --> 1:44:41.679 kind of blackpills a lot of people unnecessarily. Let's start 1:44:41.680 --> 1:44:44.360 with the obvious point here. Young men are not growing 1:44:44.360 --> 1:44:48.120 more conservative across the board than men of other generations. 1:44:48.479 --> 1:44:50.200 So first off, I want to read you a quote 1:44:50.200 --> 1:44:54.759 from this Post editorial. Since mister Trump's election in twenty sixteen, 1:44:54.840 --> 1:44:57.360 the percentage of young women ages eighteen to thirty who 1:44:57.360 --> 1:45:00.559 identify as liberal has shot up from slightly over twenty 1:45:00.560 --> 1:45:04.200 percent to thirty two percent. Young men have not followed suit, 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:09.280 If anything, they have grown more conservative now that claim 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:12.600 is based, You want to guess, did they cite a 1:45:12.640 --> 1:45:15.160 bunch of different sources to prove like that it's a 1:45:15.200 --> 1:45:19.120 really widespread problem, or do they have a single statorial 1:45:19.240 --> 1:45:20.080 board they have? 1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:23.880 Those people could not find a second study if you 1:45:24.000 --> 1:45:27.200 nailed it to their face, they share, couldn't they share? 1:45:27.280 --> 1:45:31.280 Couldn't they googled real quickly? Or I'm not even gonna 1:45:31.280 --> 1:45:33.599 give them credit for googling. One of their friends who 1:45:33.680 --> 1:45:35.880 works at a right wing think tank sent them a 1:45:35.920 --> 1:45:38.760 survey from that right wing think tank, because that the 1:45:39.000 --> 1:45:42.519 entire statistical basis of that claim is a study by 1:45:42.600 --> 1:45:46.240 the American Enterprise Institute, which is a center right think 1:45:46.280 --> 1:45:50.400 tank that tends to produce center rights surveys. And even then, 1:45:51.000 --> 1:45:54.640 the study that they are actually citing doesn't show what 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:57.840 the Post editorial board claims. Again their claims, young men 1:45:57.880 --> 1:46:01.400 have not followed suit if anything, they have grown more conservative, right, 1:46:01.960 --> 1:46:05.200 young men, So they are talking across the board about 1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:08.799 gen Z and millennial males, right, I'm going to quote 1:46:08.880 --> 1:46:13.240 from that study. Previous research identified a growing gap and 1:46:13.320 --> 1:46:16.760 ideological orientation between young men and women. The gender gap 1:46:16.800 --> 1:46:20.040 in liberal identity is notable among members of Generation Z, 1:46:20.240 --> 1:46:23.200 but it's relatively modest. Forty three percent of gen Z 1:46:23.320 --> 1:46:26.160 women identify as liberal compared to thirty five percent of 1:46:26.240 --> 1:46:29.599 gen Z men. However, the gender divide among white, non 1:46:29.760 --> 1:46:33.280 Hispanic gen Z adults is considerable, close to half. Forty 1:46:33.320 --> 1:46:35.760 six percent of gen Z women are liberal, a far 1:46:35.800 --> 1:46:39.040 greater share than white gen Z men, among whom only 1:46:39.080 --> 1:46:42.400 twenty eight percent identify as liberal. Among gen Z adults, 1:46:42.479 --> 1:46:44.960 white men are significantly more likely than white women to 1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:48.760 identify as politically conservative thirty six percent versus twenty six percent. 1:46:48.800 --> 1:46:50.679 So you see what number one the study is doing there? 1:46:50.920 --> 1:46:53.559 Is it saying forty three percent of gen Z women 1:46:53.800 --> 1:46:57.200 all gen Z women identify as liberal, whereas and then 1:46:57.240 --> 1:47:00.160 it goes to thirty six percent of white gens Z 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:04.880 men identify it. It's switching it on them, right. And 1:47:05.320 --> 1:47:08.080 while it does eventually acknowledge the differences where because it 1:47:08.120 --> 1:47:10.320 says that like across the board, all gen Z men 1:47:10.400 --> 1:47:13.000 thirty five percent or conservative, forty three percent of gen 1:47:13.080 --> 1:47:16.000 Z women are liberal. That's not a massive gap, right. 1:47:16.560 --> 1:47:19.640 The Washington Post editorial board just makes the claim that 1:47:19.720 --> 1:47:22.680 young men have grown more conservative, which is not supported 1:47:22.720 --> 1:47:26.519 by the study. And also the study is specifically talking 1:47:26.560 --> 1:47:29.960 about how gen Z white men have gotten more conservative. Right, 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:33.400 very different things being claimed here. So the Post just 1:47:33.520 --> 1:47:36.479 ignored what was actually in the survey to claim all 1:47:36.800 --> 1:47:40.040 young men, not just young white men, are more conservative, 1:47:40.040 --> 1:47:42.960 not just gen Z white men are more conservative. Now, 1:47:43.160 --> 1:47:46.240 this is weird, But even if you take the study, 1:47:46.280 --> 1:47:50.120 which is misrepresented by the editorial board at its face value, 1:47:50.200 --> 1:47:52.519 that study does not gel with all of the other 1:47:52.680 --> 1:47:55.479 data that we have. Now, when I went through this, 1:47:55.640 --> 1:47:58.360 it was hard to find good data on just gen 1:47:58.439 --> 1:48:00.800 Z men. That is not broken out in most of 1:48:00.840 --> 1:48:03.080 the studies that we get. But we do have some 1:48:03.160 --> 1:48:06.960 information on how gen Z adult men voted as a 1:48:07.080 --> 1:48:10.360 group in the twenty twenty two midterms, and that data 1:48:10.520 --> 1:48:14.839 is telling. Based on the twenty twenty two midterms, seventy 1:48:14.880 --> 1:48:17.560 one percent of young women, that's a that's gen Z 1:48:18.280 --> 1:48:21.200 mostly gen Z eighteen to twenty nine, So I think 1:48:21.280 --> 1:48:23.080 gen Z taps out at twenty six right now. So 1:48:23.600 --> 1:48:27.880 presumably a percentage of the people in this are technically millennials, 1:48:27.880 --> 1:48:30.679 but they're yeah, they're like you, they're day walkers. Yeah, 1:48:31.160 --> 1:48:34.519 that's like what like, oh my god, I can't I 1:48:34.560 --> 1:48:35.880 can't do math live on air. 1:48:37.000 --> 1:48:39.800 I think it's like twenty seven to forty something is 1:48:40.439 --> 1:48:41.120 the millennials. 1:48:41.120 --> 1:48:43.439 But I'm gonna say it's close enough to this. This 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:44.719 is closes. It's only like. 1:48:44.600 --> 1:48:47.240 Three years of people, yeah, right exactly, and they're the 1:48:47.280 --> 1:48:49.280 three years that are that are right in the middle. 1:48:49.600 --> 1:48:51.960 But of that of these voters in the twenty twenty 1:48:51.960 --> 1:48:55.080 two midterms, seventy one percent of young women voted for Democrats, 1:48:55.520 --> 1:48:58.920 twenty six percent voted for Republicans, fifty three percent of 1:48:59.000 --> 1:49:04.240 young men voted for Democrats, forty two percent voted for Republicans. 1:49:04.840 --> 1:49:08.280 And among LGBT, and again this is not broken down 1:49:08.320 --> 1:49:13.080 male or female, ninety three percent voted for Democrats, and overall, 1:49:13.120 --> 1:49:16.960 among non LGBT youth, fifty eight percent voted for Democrats, 1:49:16.960 --> 1:49:22.519 thirty eight percent voted for Republicans. So again not massive 1:49:23.000 --> 1:49:26.799 discrepancies here, and one thing that may help to explain 1:49:26.840 --> 1:49:28.880 this that again is not really broken down in the 1:49:28.960 --> 1:49:32.840 Washington Post editorial is that while gen Z white men 1:49:33.160 --> 1:49:36.879 have are more conservative compared to like gen Z millennial 1:49:36.960 --> 1:49:40.280 white men, gen Z itself is a lot less white 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:43.599 than prior generations, which means overall gen Z men are 1:49:43.640 --> 1:49:47.519 not really getting more conservative. About fifty five percent of 1:49:47.640 --> 1:49:52.599 gen Z is white compared to about seventy percent of boomers. Right, 1:49:52.840 --> 1:49:56.400 So this is one major reason why. Again this because 1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:59.000 again if you actually factor in all of gen Z, 1:49:59.520 --> 1:50:03.200 there's not this huge worry about like a marriage discrepancy 1:50:03.479 --> 1:50:06.280 as long as you assume that people, you know that 1:50:06.880 --> 1:50:09.920 interracial dating is not a problem for most people the 1:50:09.960 --> 1:50:12.719 way it is for apparently the Washington Post editorial board. 1:50:14.400 --> 1:50:16.599 Now there's a couple of caveats here. One is that 1:50:16.880 --> 1:50:20.799 midterm voters are historically more engaged and educated than voters 1:50:20.800 --> 1:50:25.080 of other generations. However, that may not necessarily hold true 1:50:25.360 --> 1:50:28.160 with gen Z or millennial voters today due to a 1:50:28.200 --> 1:50:31.519 variety of factors. One worthwhile point is that young people 1:50:31.600 --> 1:50:34.080 tend to be driven far more by what they encounter 1:50:34.120 --> 1:50:36.760 through social media, which is probably part of why gen 1:50:36.840 --> 1:50:39.519 Z and millennial voters consider abortion to be a more 1:50:39.560 --> 1:50:42.320 important thing to vote on than the economy by a 1:50:42.360 --> 1:50:46.000 margin that bears no resemblance to older generations. This is 1:50:46.040 --> 1:50:50.120 why we've actually seen unless four elections soaring youth voter turnout, 1:50:50.360 --> 1:50:54.040 particularly during the midterms, record levels of youth voting, Which 1:50:54.080 --> 1:50:56.880 doesn't mean it's completely wrong that midterm voters may be 1:50:56.880 --> 1:50:59.639 a bit more engaged and educated, but that's probably less 1:50:59.640 --> 1:51:01.600 of a factor for young voters that it is for 1:51:01.680 --> 1:51:05.479 older generations. Right, some of the conventional wisdom about who 1:51:05.600 --> 1:51:09.040 votes when is not as accurate when we're talking about 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:12.880 younger people. This is not something that you can prove objectively, 1:51:12.920 --> 1:51:16.600 but there's there's significant, sort of circumstantial evidence around this. 1:51:17.439 --> 1:51:21.960 Speaking of circumstances, you know what circumstances get me to 1:51:22.040 --> 1:51:23.680 spend my money? 1:51:24.360 --> 1:51:26.320 Is it being served products and services. 1:51:26.479 --> 1:51:29.120 It's well, it's when those products and services advertise on 1:51:29.240 --> 1:51:35.919 this podcast and only this podcast. So check that shit out, homies, 1:51:37.160 --> 1:51:38.759 ah and we're back. 1:51:39.200 --> 1:51:40.000 So yeah. 1:51:40.479 --> 1:51:42.720 One of the you know, overall points to make that 1:51:42.760 --> 1:51:44.680 I think goes against this kind of panic a lot 1:51:44.680 --> 1:51:46.960 of people have that gen Z is somehow being like 1:51:47.080 --> 1:51:51.200 pilled away from progressive politics, is that as a result 1:51:51.240 --> 1:51:55.800 of stuff, primarily abortion. Gen Z voters supported Democrats over 1:51:55.840 --> 1:51:59.679 Republicans in the midterm elections by and astonishing twenty seven points. 1:52:00.240 --> 1:52:02.320 This is again a large part of this came down 1:52:02.400 --> 1:52:06.519 to abortion, which gen Z voters prioritize by a higher 1:52:06.520 --> 1:52:09.280 amount than any other generation. One of the things that 1:52:09.360 --> 1:52:11.080 was noted in one of the studies I found is 1:52:11.120 --> 1:52:14.679 like a potential line of hope for Republicans is that 1:52:14.800 --> 1:52:16.760 while this and this is part of where I think 1:52:16.840 --> 1:52:20.799 some of the fear mongering and these Washington Post articles 1:52:20.840 --> 1:52:22.479 comes from, although I don't think it says what they 1:52:22.520 --> 1:52:26.200 think it says is that lower numbers of young people 1:52:26.640 --> 1:52:30.479 support specific parties. Right, so only about thirty percent of 1:52:30.520 --> 1:52:34.599 gen zs align with Democrats compared to twenty four percent 1:52:34.640 --> 1:52:37.920 of Republicans. And if you just look at that, that's 1:52:38.160 --> 1:52:38.639 way less. 1:52:38.920 --> 1:52:39.639 That seems like. 1:52:40.120 --> 1:52:43.160 You're seeing like these numbers sort of kind of tighten up. 1:52:43.840 --> 1:52:47.479 But again, they still voted over Democrats of Republicans by 1:52:47.479 --> 1:52:50.360 twenty seven points. It's just that gen Z is less 1:52:50.400 --> 1:52:54.320 loyal to political parties, which doesn't necessarily mean that progressivism 1:52:54.360 --> 1:52:56.719 is in danger, just means that most young people hate 1:52:56.720 --> 1:52:57.440 the Democrats. 1:52:57.479 --> 1:52:59.400 Too, and that could. And the other thing is like 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:01.799 the thing that actually legit and I think this is legitimately. 1:53:01.800 --> 1:53:03.439 A part of it is like, well, okay, so what happened. 1:53:03.640 --> 1:53:05.479 What's happening to all those people? And the answer is 1:53:05.520 --> 1:53:08.920 they're becoming socialists And it's like, well that doesn't help 1:53:08.960 --> 1:53:10.519 the public cans either, Yeah. 1:53:10.320 --> 1:53:12.599 So yeah, and it's it's I mean, part of it 1:53:12.680 --> 1:53:14.840 is that more young people identify with like kind of 1:53:14.880 --> 1:53:18.320 more politically radical chunks of progressivism. Part of it is 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:21.000 that a lot more of them identify as independent and 1:53:21.080 --> 1:53:25.160 may not have may not identify themselves super much as 1:53:25.200 --> 1:53:30.440 a specific political chunk, but in general, like they vote progressive, 1:53:30.520 --> 1:53:34.000 they just don't have any faith in like the ossified 1:53:34.080 --> 1:53:37.439 political structures in our society, which is a rational thing 1:53:37.680 --> 1:53:39.200 to do as a young person. 1:53:39.360 --> 1:53:39.559 Right. 1:53:40.360 --> 1:53:42.959 So I also want to address kind of the elephant 1:53:42.960 --> 1:53:44.760 in the room with this piece, which is that the 1:53:44.880 --> 1:53:48.640 Washington Post editorial Board's obsession with political divide among the 1:53:48.640 --> 1:53:53.280 young harming marriage specifically, is also kind of gay panicky, right, 1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:56.400 because one of the reasons why there seems to be 1:53:56.439 --> 1:53:59.040 this divide that they see as like this threatens marriage 1:53:59.080 --> 1:54:01.559 is that a higher percentage of gen Z kids are 1:54:01.640 --> 1:54:04.240 less interested in straight marriage. And these gen Z kids, 1:54:04.240 --> 1:54:07.599 male and female, are not getting more conservative, but they're 1:54:07.600 --> 1:54:10.639 also presumably not going to do the kind of marriage 1:54:10.720 --> 1:54:14.439 that the Washington Post editorial board was right. I'm going 1:54:14.479 --> 1:54:17.559 to quote from a Time magazine right up here. In 1:54:17.640 --> 1:54:19.800 late twenty twenty and early twenty twenty one, gen Z 1:54:20.000 --> 1:54:22.839 was the only US generation in which a majority believed 1:54:22.880 --> 1:54:25.519 there are more than two genders. As recently as the 1:54:25.560 --> 1:54:28.160 first half of twenty twenty, this was a minority opinion 1:54:28.200 --> 1:54:30.880 even among Gen zs, a remarkable amount of change over 1:54:30.960 --> 1:54:33.440 just six months. In contrast, there was only a small 1:54:33.520 --> 1:54:36.760 uptick in this belief among older generations. That type of 1:54:36.840 --> 1:54:39.640 data is finally available. Starting in June twenty twenty one, 1:54:39.840 --> 1:54:42.959 the US Census Bureau offered four options on its Household 1:54:43.000 --> 1:54:47.160 Pulse survey question about gender male, female, transgender, and none 1:54:47.160 --> 1:54:49.240 of these. The last a rough gauge of those who 1:54:49.320 --> 1:54:52.640 identify as non binary, gender fluid, or another gender identity. 1:54:53.040 --> 1:54:55.360 With that more terrible way of phrasing that court, it's 1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:58.080 not a great way. It's better than nothing, but yeah, 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:02.600 it's not God with more than with more than a 1:55:02.600 --> 1:55:06.000 million respondents. The survey is large enough to provide accurate estimates. 1:55:06.120 --> 1:55:08.440 The results are clear. Gen Z young adults are much 1:55:08.440 --> 1:55:11.000 more likely to report identifying as either trans or non 1:55:11.040 --> 1:55:13.560 binary than other generations. Well, only one out of a 1:55:13.640 --> 1:55:16.720 thousand boomers report they are transgender one tenth of one percent. 1:55:17.080 --> 1:55:19.520 Twenty three out of one thousand gen Z young adults 1:55:19.520 --> 1:55:23.040 two point three percent identify as trans twenty times more. 1:55:23.320 --> 1:55:25.520 By this estimate, there are now more TRANSI young adults 1:55:25.520 --> 1:55:27.800 in the US than the number of people living in Boston, 1:55:28.040 --> 1:55:31.400 which is great because I have long felt that what 1:55:31.440 --> 1:55:34.200 we need to do is arm trans people to take 1:55:34.240 --> 1:55:36.800 over the city of Boston. I believe this for years, 1:55:36.840 --> 1:55:38.800 and I think we can finally make it happen. 1:55:39.120 --> 1:55:40.960 Okay, but here's the problem, though, you still have to 1:55:41.000 --> 1:55:43.720 live in Boston afterwards. Well, I guess we could take 1:55:43.760 --> 1:55:45.880 the city of Boston and live somewhere else and then 1:55:45.920 --> 1:55:47.880 sort of like, yeah, you dous from it. 1:55:48.280 --> 1:55:51.360 Yeah, presumably, yeah you could. You could basically become like 1:55:51.440 --> 1:55:54.760 collectively the landlords of Boston and then use it to 1:55:54.800 --> 1:55:56.640 afford rented in a better place. 1:55:58.600 --> 1:56:01.400 This is viable, I believe, I believe in our lifetime. 1:56:01.520 --> 1:56:04.560 So we can tell, and this will finally increase gen 1:56:04.680 --> 1:56:08.280 z's like home ownership numbers. Right if collectively all of 1:56:08.320 --> 1:56:10.720 the transn non binary people own Boston. 1:56:11.200 --> 1:56:13.000 Yeah, this is a workable plan. 1:56:13.120 --> 1:56:16.160 I think I'm going to continue that quote. Fewer than 1:56:16.200 --> 1:56:18.800 one percent of boomers identify as non binary, compared to 1:56:18.840 --> 1:56:21.560 more than three percent of gen Z young adults. Combined 1:56:21.560 --> 1:56:23.320 with the more than two percent to our trans, that 1:56:23.400 --> 1:56:25.760 means one out of eighteen young adults identified as something 1:56:25.800 --> 1:56:27.840 other than male or female in twenty twenty one or 1:56:27.880 --> 1:56:30.960 twenty twenty two, which is again, it's not true because 1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:33.480 half of the note it's not it's not it's not 1:56:33.640 --> 1:56:37.280 the time because again two percent are trans, which presumably, 1:56:37.320 --> 1:56:39.720 based on this survey and how it's asked, presumably means 1:56:39.840 --> 1:56:43.040 identify as either male or female, whereas three percent our 1:56:43.320 --> 1:56:46.360 non binary of some sort may not, may not identify 1:56:46.400 --> 1:56:48.680 as either male or It doesn't say that this is 1:56:48.880 --> 1:56:51.960 this is this is not well written, but the day 1:56:52.080 --> 1:56:54.400 is interesting. It suggests five to six percent of gen 1:56:54.480 --> 1:56:57.440 Z our trans are non binary, which is a wild 1:56:57.680 --> 1:57:02.280 departure from previous generations. Right, And also that's a significant 1:57:02.360 --> 1:57:04.800 chunk of this These gen Z numbers that are not 1:57:04.840 --> 1:57:07.760 being included in this Washington Post because presumably a decent 1:57:07.840 --> 1:57:09.880 chunk of these people will want to get married. They 1:57:09.960 --> 1:57:12.400 just don't I identify in a way that the gen 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:15.480 Z that the Washington Post editorial board respects. 1:57:15.560 --> 1:57:15.720 Right. 1:57:16.200 --> 1:57:18.800 And again, one of the things that's interesting about this, 1:57:19.200 --> 1:57:22.480 and contra to all this fearmongering about Andrew Tates destroying 1:57:22.480 --> 1:57:25.560 all the men, is that male or female gen Z 1:57:25.640 --> 1:57:29.960 and millennial voters overwhelmingly support LGBT rights more than they 1:57:29.960 --> 1:57:34.120 support almost anything else. And this is consistent across the board, 1:57:34.400 --> 1:57:37.000 and markedly higher than it is for other generations. 1:57:37.040 --> 1:57:37.200 Right. 1:57:37.200 --> 1:57:40.920 Presumably this seems to include even like more independent or 1:57:40.960 --> 1:57:43.240 even more conservative gen Z and millennial voters. 1:57:43.280 --> 1:57:43.720 Right, They're just. 1:57:43.720 --> 1:57:48.720 Across the board less shitty on this, I'm guessing presumably 1:57:48.760 --> 1:57:52.320 because a lot of their friends are trands or non 1:57:52.360 --> 1:57:56.600 binary or just queer, and that that makes them less 1:57:56.840 --> 1:58:00.120 bigoted about this stuff. And again doesn't really fit in 1:58:00.120 --> 1:58:03.200 to this this narrative. Right, And this is again part 1:58:03.240 --> 1:58:06.640 of why I'm not as doomer about you know, there's 1:58:06.680 --> 1:58:10.080 this there's this big fear. Oh, you know, progressives are 1:58:10.320 --> 1:58:13.240 desert young people are deserting progressivism. Which is going to 1:58:13.240 --> 1:58:16.560 do musclectorally, and I'm just not seeing that in the numbers. 1:58:16.600 --> 1:58:16.760 Now. 1:58:16.760 --> 1:58:19.120 Again, everything that's been going on with like the Biden 1:58:19.160 --> 1:58:24.520 administration's you know, support of Israel certainly may and probably 1:58:24.560 --> 1:58:28.520 will have an impact politically, but it's not necessarily it's 1:58:28.560 --> 1:58:31.600 not very clearly not a result of young people getting 1:58:31.640 --> 1:58:34.720 pilled by Andrew Tate. Right, that's not why that's happened. 1:58:34.800 --> 1:58:36.440 And there's there's a thing I wanted to talk about 1:58:36.440 --> 1:58:39.839 with the Andrew Tate stuff too, because like everyone's treating 1:58:39.880 --> 1:58:42.800 this as like a completely new phenomena and it's like 1:58:43.640 --> 1:58:45.880 most of the people who are talking about this should 1:58:45.920 --> 1:58:48.920 be old enough to remember gamer Gate, Like this stuff 1:58:48.960 --> 1:58:51.240 has all happened before, and it was like, yeah, like 1:58:51.480 --> 1:58:54.360 gamer Date did produce a bunch of fascists, and also 1:58:54.440 --> 1:58:57.840 the millennials were still unbelievably further left than like the 1:58:57.880 --> 1:59:00.360 generations that came before them. Yeah, so like it's like 1:59:00.400 --> 1:59:01.800 this is this is this is just a thing. Like 1:59:02.160 --> 1:59:05.960 every generation has a a giant thing where there's like 1:59:06.000 --> 1:59:11.120 a bunch of right wing like yeah, a big push. 1:59:11.400 --> 1:59:11.879 Yeah. 1:59:11.960 --> 1:59:13.880 Yeah, it's like this just happens periodically. It's just like 1:59:13.880 --> 1:59:16.000 a part of it. It's a part of Baltics. It sucks, 1:59:16.080 --> 1:59:18.280 it's bad, but it's also like not a thing to 1:59:18.320 --> 1:59:19.600 be humored about. 1:59:20.080 --> 1:59:20.160 No. 1:59:20.560 --> 1:59:23.640 I do think another thing that is happening here is 1:59:23.680 --> 1:59:26.280 that the kind of people who become members of the 1:59:26.360 --> 1:59:30.800 Washington Post editorial board have this, have this brainworm, this 1:59:30.960 --> 1:59:35.120 sickness that infects members of the American media worse than 1:59:35.600 --> 1:59:38.920 almost anyone else, which is like they're always looking for Ah, 1:59:39.000 --> 1:59:41.760 contrary to popular wisdom. You think this, but the reality, 1:59:41.960 --> 1:59:45.000 you know, it's the it's Malcolm Gladwell syndrome, right where 1:59:45.240 --> 1:59:47.160 you've got to come up with some like clever thing 1:59:47.200 --> 1:59:49.760 that shows that you're smart because you don't buy into 1:59:49.760 --> 1:59:51.960 the standard wisdom, which is always wrong. I mean, there's 1:59:52.320 --> 1:59:55.240 and that and so that they have to believe that 1:59:55.880 --> 2:00:00.800 whatever is really happening is the opposite of what's obvious happening, right, 2:00:00.800 --> 2:00:04.640 which is why this Actually young men are getting more conservative, 2:00:04.720 --> 2:00:06.920 and it's I'm the only one who realizes, and I've 2:00:06.920 --> 2:00:09.120 got to warn every one of the danger to marriage. 2:00:09.200 --> 2:00:12.839 Speaking of which, here's another quote from that Washington Post article. 2:00:13.480 --> 2:00:17.200 In another era, political or ideological differences might have had 2:00:17.280 --> 2:00:21.480 less impact on marriage rates, but increasingly the political is personal. 2:00:21.720 --> 2:00:24.560 A twenty twenty one survey of college students found that 2:00:24.600 --> 2:00:27.840 seventy one percent of Democrats would not date someone with 2:00:27.880 --> 2:00:31.240 opposing views. There is some logic to this marriage across 2:00:31.280 --> 2:00:34.280 religious or political lines. If either partner considers those things 2:00:34.280 --> 2:00:37.040 to be central with their identity, can be associated with 2:00:37.160 --> 2:00:40.920 lower levels of life satisfaction, and politics is becoming more 2:00:40.960 --> 2:00:44.600 central to people's identity. This mismatch means that someone will 2:00:44.640 --> 2:00:48.320 need to compromise, as the researchers Lymonstone and Brad Wilcox 2:00:48.320 --> 2:00:50.480 have noted, about one in five young singles will have 2:00:50.520 --> 2:00:53.800 little choice but to marry someone outside of their ideological tribe. 2:00:53.960 --> 2:00:56.040 The other option is that they decline to get married 2:00:56.040 --> 2:00:58.920 at all. Not an ideal outcome considering the data showing 2:00:58.960 --> 2:01:02.200 that marriage is good for the the societies and individuals alike. 2:01:02.280 --> 2:01:05.080 And again, this is only the case that one five 2:01:05.160 --> 2:01:07.160 number is ignoring queer people. 2:01:07.560 --> 2:01:11.560 Yeah, right, because they are largely ignoring non white people, right, 2:01:11.640 --> 2:01:14.720 Like it's it's it's just not accurate, Like, yeah, maybe 2:01:14.760 --> 2:01:16.800 a lot more young white men are going to be single, 2:01:16.840 --> 2:01:18.920 and there's problems that will occur to you to that, right, 2:01:19.000 --> 2:01:21.120 because for one thing, that's the group that tends to 2:01:21.200 --> 2:01:23.720 like load up on guns and shoot up public places. 2:01:23.920 --> 2:01:26.320 Not saying it's not a problem, but it doesn't mean 2:01:26.360 --> 2:01:29.000 that our society is doomed because no one's getting married. 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:31.760 It means that there's some serious problems with young white 2:01:31.760 --> 2:01:33.080 men that we need to deal with. 2:01:33.400 --> 2:01:35.680 Yeah, well there's there's There's two other things that I 2:01:35.680 --> 2:01:39.040 think are interesting there. One is, Okay, you can tell 2:01:39.240 --> 2:01:42.640 when these people like formed their political beliefs because they're 2:01:42.640 --> 2:01:45.800 complaining about the personal is political, which is this is 2:01:46.120 --> 2:01:49.440 ninety shit like that is that is like that is 2:01:49.520 --> 2:01:52.160 like like old school ass like this is this is 2:01:52.440 --> 2:01:54.760 like stuff people were like I don't know, it's it's 2:01:54.840 --> 2:01:57.080 like it's like political correctness where it's like it's the 2:01:57.160 --> 2:01:59.560 previous version of the same panic that everyone's having. Now 2:02:00.080 --> 2:02:02.560 this is from the nineties, so it's like all of 2:02:02.560 --> 2:02:05.800 these people are just like absolute dinosaurs who they've like 2:02:05.920 --> 2:02:09.720 dragged out to write this like weird fearmongering thing. And 2:02:09.840 --> 2:02:11.760 the second thing is I think is interesting too, is 2:02:11.800 --> 2:02:17.960 like just the deep, ingrained, sort of very conservative assumption here, 2:02:18.120 --> 2:02:22.200 which is that marriage is good for society, which I 2:02:22.240 --> 2:02:26.440 don't think is anywhere near as straightforward a proposition as 2:02:26.440 --> 2:02:29.120 to Washington Post is making it seem like and you know, 2:02:29.240 --> 2:02:32.360 and like they have racistical arguments. I mean, the cistics 2:02:32.360 --> 2:02:34.760 that I've seen, like you know, just just sort of 2:02:34.960 --> 2:02:37.440 likeasistics that I've seen based on American society is that 2:02:37.680 --> 2:02:39.920 like women who aren't married are way happier than they 2:02:39.920 --> 2:02:43.320 are in marriages, and you know, like men do worse. 2:02:43.400 --> 2:02:44.560 But like you know, but like I mean, this is 2:02:44.560 --> 2:02:47.440 one of these things there's like we don't know, like 2:02:47.640 --> 2:02:50.040 there has not been a version of America where we 2:02:50.080 --> 2:02:53.920 haven't where the institution of marriage wasn't like our thing 2:02:54.040 --> 2:02:58.080 that hasn't existed for like two or three hundred years, Right, Yeah, 2:02:58.360 --> 2:03:01.480 we don't know the Washington Post know what an American 2:03:01.520 --> 2:03:04.440 society without, like where people don't get married looks like 2:03:04.440 --> 2:03:06.240 like they have no idea, but they're just sort of 2:03:06.280 --> 2:03:09.800 assuming that it's like the apocalypse because they're weird conservatives 2:03:09.800 --> 2:03:10.400 in the nineties. 2:03:11.000 --> 2:03:12.640 Yeah, and a lot of I mean, and again, a 2:03:12.720 --> 2:03:17.880 massive part of what we're seeing here is less it's 2:03:17.960 --> 2:03:21.120 objectively good, like marriage is the result of all of 2:03:21.120 --> 2:03:24.800 these kind of positive mental health outcomes and more well, 2:03:24.880 --> 2:03:29.280 when people are like, have relationships and loved ones and 2:03:29.360 --> 2:03:33.040 like a family system supporting them. They're less likely to 2:03:33.080 --> 2:03:35.800 commit suicide, They're more likely to have someone notice if 2:03:35.840 --> 2:03:39.200 they take ill. They're just like healthier in general. But 2:03:39.240 --> 2:03:43.560 that doesn't that doesn't necessarily mean that it's marriage specifically, 2:03:43.640 --> 2:03:47.040 and more like yeah, not being alone, right, Yeah, anyway, 2:03:47.200 --> 2:03:49.520 I want to continue and just kind of go through. 2:03:49.680 --> 2:03:52.200 I think we've trashed this article enough, but I did 2:03:52.200 --> 2:03:54.640 find a lot of interesting stuff about gen Z and 2:03:54.680 --> 2:03:57.320 young voters that I wanted to get into. But first, 2:03:58.200 --> 2:04:02.560 here's some more fucking ads, pigs, you have, filthy mongrels. 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:06.120 Slop it up, suck it down. Anyway, we'll be back 2:04:06.120 --> 2:04:09.800 in a minute, and we're back. So one interesting thing 2:04:09.840 --> 2:04:12.560 I found. I tried to stick to just stuff from 2:04:12.560 --> 2:04:15.360 like twenty twenty one or later for this, in part 2:04:15.400 --> 2:04:17.120 because of the Andrew Tait of it. All Right, I 2:04:17.160 --> 2:04:19.600 wanted to like try to find stuff that was like, Okay, 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:22.480 since that guy came onto the scene, has there been 2:04:22.480 --> 2:04:24.680 some sudden shift because people treat him like the pied 2:04:24.760 --> 2:04:29.320 piper of fucking fascism, which, again, he's a problem, but 2:04:29.400 --> 2:04:31.280 I don't think that's broadly accurate. So one of the 2:04:31.280 --> 2:04:33.360 studies I found was a twenty twenty one survey from 2:04:33.680 --> 2:04:37.880 MTV AP and o RC right, And it was interesting 2:04:38.120 --> 2:04:42.720 because it showed something I didn't really, something I had 2:04:42.800 --> 2:04:45.320 kind of bought into, was at least less supported by 2:04:45.360 --> 2:04:47.640 the evidence than I might have thought, which is like 2:04:47.760 --> 2:04:52.520 the level of doomerism in young people politics. Gen Z 2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:56.600 actually shows optim like that they are more optimistic than 2:04:56.680 --> 2:04:59.480 a lot of older people, both in the state of 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:03.120 the world and their role in improving it. Two thirds 2:05:03.240 --> 2:05:05.720 of gen Z feels like their generation is motivated to 2:05:05.720 --> 2:05:08.760 make positive change in the country. Part of I think 2:05:08.760 --> 2:05:11.080 where we get some of the feelings of doomerism is 2:05:11.080 --> 2:05:13.560 that only about fourteen percent think that they can have 2:05:13.560 --> 2:05:15.080 an impact on what the government does. 2:05:16.360 --> 2:05:22.000 Yeah, I mean that that is an entirely reasonable assessment 2:05:22.120 --> 2:05:24.240 of I mean just like looking at polling data on 2:05:24.280 --> 2:05:27.880 Palestine or like absolutely, no, not we had a very 2:05:28.000 --> 2:05:30.840 rational take actually yeah, yeah, it's like we had we 2:05:30.880 --> 2:05:33.760 had an entire uprising, like people people fought the Secret 2:05:33.800 --> 2:05:36.160 Service at the gates of the White House, and the 2:05:36.200 --> 2:05:38.000 product of it was the government was like, no, we 2:05:38.000 --> 2:05:40.360 should give more money to cops. Yeah, it's like, yeah, 2:05:40.520 --> 2:05:42.520 it's like, Okay, we're like defunding the New York Public 2:05:42.520 --> 2:05:46.879 Library System to buy encrypted radio like things for police units. 2:05:46.920 --> 2:05:49.880 Like it's like, yeah, like this is objectively true that 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:52.240 you have very little influence over the government, like. 2:05:52.240 --> 2:05:56.520 A perfectly reasonable thing to say. Yeah, but yeah about 2:05:57.360 --> 2:06:00.000 is interesting too. Another thing that I was kind of surprised. 2:06:00.240 --> 2:06:02.600 Half of Gen Z people think their standard of living 2:06:02.720 --> 2:06:06.000 is better than their parents, but about half also think 2:06:06.040 --> 2:06:08.720 that the world their generation is facing is worse than 2:06:08.920 --> 2:06:12.600 what most other people, most other generations have dealt with. 2:06:12.960 --> 2:06:16.320 So like, they think that their problems are are worse 2:06:16.400 --> 2:06:18.880 than like what boomers and Gen X and millennials we're 2:06:18.880 --> 2:06:21.120 dealing with, but they think they're about half of them 2:06:21.160 --> 2:06:24.600 think they're living better lives. This is pretty similar to 2:06:24.640 --> 2:06:28.160 how millennials feel. Gen X feels very different. Gen X 2:06:28.200 --> 2:06:31.400 or is the most pessimistic generation about the state of 2:06:31.440 --> 2:06:33.800 the world, which actually makes kind of sense if you 2:06:33.920 --> 2:06:36.120 realize that, like a lot of Gen Z kids are 2:06:36.200 --> 2:06:39.200 the children of Gen X people, right, So like they 2:06:39.200 --> 2:06:41.000 think their standard of living is better than their parents 2:06:41.000 --> 2:06:44.680 because Gen X is miserable, Yeah, which you know interesting. 2:06:45.080 --> 2:06:47.480 Gen Z and millennials are more accepting than Gen X 2:06:47.480 --> 2:06:50.000 of depictions of same sex couples in media, and hold 2:06:50.040 --> 2:06:55.560 more positive views of LGBT people, which again, gen X 2:06:55.680 --> 2:06:59.200 is the worst generation. We all have to agree on 2:06:59.240 --> 2:06:59.839 that one. 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:03.880 It's just terrible. It really really didn't work out in 2:07:03.960 --> 2:07:04.680 two thousands. 2:07:04.680 --> 2:07:10.520 Were just a disaster, calamity, calamity. So I wanted to 2:07:10.600 --> 2:07:12.800 kind of break down some stuff from this survey that 2:07:12.920 --> 2:07:16.040 was interesting, just kind of on on how the generations 2:07:16.040 --> 2:07:19.080 support various policies. So, in terms of their support for 2:07:19.120 --> 2:07:23.040 prohibiting workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity, sixty 2:07:23.080 --> 2:07:25.280 two percent of Gen Z and sixty two percent of 2:07:25.320 --> 2:07:29.000 millennials support that, only fifty three percent of Gen X does, 2:07:29.080 --> 2:07:31.400 which is still actually not like a massive gap. Right 2:07:32.400 --> 2:07:34.080 when it comes to this is interesting when it comes 2:07:34.160 --> 2:07:37.520 to requiring Americans to mask in public places like stores 2:07:37.520 --> 2:07:41.360 and restaurants, fifty four percent of millennials support that, fifty 2:07:41.360 --> 2:07:43.800 three percent of Gen X do but does but fifty 2:07:43.840 --> 2:07:46.880 two percent of Gen Z does, which is all potentially 2:07:46.920 --> 2:07:48.200 within kind of a margin of error. 2:07:48.400 --> 2:07:51.320 That's like noise, Like, yeah, that might just be noise. 2:07:51.360 --> 2:07:54.880 It's about equivalent, right, It's pretty Most of this is 2:07:54.960 --> 2:07:56.760 actually pretty for all of our shitting on gen X. 2:07:56.800 --> 2:08:00.120 Most of this is actually pretty close. For acquiring vaccinations, 2:08:00.120 --> 2:08:02.600 Millennials seem to support it higher than anyone else forty 2:08:02.680 --> 2:08:06.640 nine percent, gen Z at forty three percent, which is significant. 2:08:07.120 --> 2:08:08.480 Kind of gen X is right in the middle at 2:08:08.520 --> 2:08:11.920 forty five When it comes to supporting a nationwide ban 2:08:12.040 --> 2:08:15.880 on air fifteens and other similar semi automatic rifles, gen 2:08:15.960 --> 2:08:18.400 Z and gen X are at forty two percent for 2:08:18.440 --> 2:08:21.080 gen X forty four percent for gen Z, whereas millennials 2:08:21.120 --> 2:08:23.919 are at forty seven percent. Now, a lot of this breakdown, 2:08:23.920 --> 2:08:26.120 because I dug into the actual numbers, is the difference 2:08:26.120 --> 2:08:30.240 between men and women, and conservative men and liberal women 2:08:30.360 --> 2:08:33.560 right who are liberal women are a lot more common 2:08:34.480 --> 2:08:36.839 and more likely to support these kinds of bands, whereas 2:08:36.840 --> 2:08:39.560 conservative men aren't, but that drags the overall numbers down. 2:08:39.560 --> 2:08:40.960 It's just interesting to me that there seems to be 2:08:41.080 --> 2:08:43.560 less support with gen Z over that they're closer to 2:08:43.600 --> 2:08:46.880 gen X. Increasing security at the border fifty This is 2:08:46.880 --> 2:08:49.200 where there's a huge gap, fifty five percent of gen 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:52.520 X for increasing border security. Millennials in gen Z are 2:08:52.520 --> 2:08:56.120 at thirty eight and thirty seven percent, So that's really 2:08:56.160 --> 2:08:58.920 like gen X really seems to buy into the we 2:08:58.960 --> 2:09:02.720 need more border secure, whereas deutes are are like no, 2:09:02.840 --> 2:09:06.800 fuck that shit, yeah yeah. Gen X or gen Z 2:09:06.920 --> 2:09:09.440 and millennials both tied at forty eight percent support for 2:09:09.480 --> 2:09:12.240 a universal basic income. Only thirty six percent of gen 2:09:12.480 --> 2:09:17.480 X supports this, again another significant gap. One interesting thing 2:09:17.560 --> 2:09:20.440 is that gen X and millennials at thirty eight and 2:09:20.480 --> 2:09:24.640 thirty six percent support reducing regulations on businesses. Only thirty 2:09:24.680 --> 2:09:28.600 one percent of gen Z supports this. That's a significant difference. 2:09:28.680 --> 2:09:30.000 I find that kind of interesting. 2:09:30.280 --> 2:09:32.360 Yeah, I wonder how much of them also is just 2:09:32.480 --> 2:09:37.600 like like like you are okay, you are in, You're 2:09:37.600 --> 2:09:40.480 a zumer, You're never are you over owning a business? 2:09:40.800 --> 2:09:41.880 Like first off, thank you? 2:09:41.880 --> 2:09:46.440 I as I think it may it may be, and 2:09:46.520 --> 2:09:48.520 I don't I don't know that this has been studied. 2:09:48.560 --> 2:09:52.240 It may be that because gen Z are so so 2:09:52.360 --> 2:09:54.360 many of them want to be influencers to do some 2:09:54.400 --> 2:09:57.960 other kind of job and like internet content creation that 2:09:58.080 --> 2:10:00.160 and a lot of them have done kind of work, 2:10:00.880 --> 2:10:04.600 made some amount of money in that field that tends 2:10:04.640 --> 2:10:08.040 to be independent contractor work. And there's some pretty onerous 2:10:08.120 --> 2:10:10.680 tax regulations. You know, if you've ever been an independent 2:10:10.720 --> 2:10:13.040 contract about how you've got to pay taxes. It may 2:10:13.120 --> 2:10:15.480 have something to do with that. I don't know, though, 2:10:15.600 --> 2:10:18.080 Like I this hasn't been broken down like granularly that 2:10:18.120 --> 2:10:20.080 I've seen, but I did find that kind of interesting. 2:10:21.360 --> 2:10:25.640 And then here's kind of depressing but interesting reducing funding 2:10:25.640 --> 2:10:30.360 for law enforcement agencies. Thirty four percent of millennials support that, 2:10:30.480 --> 2:10:33.560 thirty percent of gen Z supports that, which is enough 2:10:33.560 --> 2:10:36.760 of a gap to suggest like might be somewhat less 2:10:36.760 --> 2:10:39.920 popular among gen Z than millennials. Only eighteen percent of 2:10:40.000 --> 2:10:43.400 gen X feels the same, which is a huge gap, 2:10:43.560 --> 2:10:48.120 and that is kind of interesting to me. So yeah, yeah, 2:10:48.200 --> 2:10:49.480 that's all I'm telling. 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:51.600 I think there's one I think there's one last kind 2:10:51.600 --> 2:10:56.560 of interesting thing about this is that those numbers, the 2:10:56.760 --> 2:10:58.520 numbers on like police funding and a lot of the 2:10:58.560 --> 2:11:01.080 sort of like if you just look at the graphs 2:11:01.160 --> 2:11:03.840 that were in the Washington Post article, a lot of 2:11:03.880 --> 2:11:08.960 that is it looks a lot like there's there's there's 2:11:08.960 --> 2:11:10.960 a giant spike dream the uprising, and then it sort 2:11:11.000 --> 2:11:13.480 of like tails off after it. Yeah, and so and 2:11:13.480 --> 2:11:15.040 so that's the thing that I think is like like that, 2:11:15.120 --> 2:11:16.680 I don't you know, and this is I think a 2:11:16.760 --> 2:11:18.120 thing I think is kind of important is like these 2:11:18.200 --> 2:11:22.879 this stuff is all malleable and moment something happens, everyone, 2:11:23.400 --> 2:11:27.280 everyone's beliefs change really quickly. Yeah, and that's the thing 2:11:27.320 --> 2:11:29.120 and like like that that's a that's the thing with 2:11:29.200 --> 2:11:31.800 these sort of like you know, with with the sort 2:11:31.800 --> 2:11:33.440 of doombers and right Andrew Tat is like yeah, like 2:11:33.480 --> 2:11:36.600 but people, people's actual political beliefs and what they're willing 2:11:36.640 --> 2:11:39.040 to do for them can change very very very quickly 2:11:39.280 --> 2:11:42.800 in in in moments where they're sort of you know, 2:11:42.840 --> 2:11:44.720 I mean there's there's a bunch of people getting shot 2:11:44.720 --> 2:11:47.000 by cops in the street, right right, like that that 2:11:47.000 --> 2:11:50.400 that changes people really really quickly. And I think that's 2:11:50.720 --> 2:11:54.360 why the gap is so high both between overall Americans, 2:11:54.360 --> 2:11:57.840 which are at twenty eight percent for defunding police, and 2:11:58.040 --> 2:12:01.200 between Gen X and Gen Z millennials. Is that a 2:12:01.240 --> 2:12:04.480 lot more Gen Z millennials people got like beaten by 2:12:04.520 --> 2:12:07.760 the cops in twenty twenty, and that this does show well, 2:12:07.800 --> 2:12:11.839 again it's an uphill battle. Most Americans, a super majority 2:12:11.840 --> 2:12:15.760 of Americans do not support that way. More young Americans do, 2:12:16.160 --> 2:12:18.080 and it's probably because so many of us got our 2:12:18.120 --> 2:12:21.080 asses checked. And also I want to like like like 2:12:21.120 --> 2:12:22.320 if if you look at what was happening, like the 2:12:22.360 --> 2:12:24.560 numbers dream the uprising, right, like the number of people 2:12:24.560 --> 2:12:26.800 who supported the burning of the third Presinkle was like 2:12:26.800 --> 2:12:30.240 fifty percent. Yeah, so like these are things that change 2:12:30.480 --> 2:12:32.920 really quickly in the moment too, and now we're in 2:12:32.920 --> 2:12:35.160 the sort of long backlash and that's you know, and 2:12:35.160 --> 2:12:37.560 that's that's driving like some of these numbers. But yeah, yeah, 2:12:37.680 --> 2:12:40.920 like don't it, don't don't be cynical things. Things can 2:12:40.960 --> 2:12:41.720 and will get better. 2:12:42.200 --> 2:12:45.600 Yeah, yes they will, and they there's a pretty dramatic difference. 2:12:45.680 --> 2:12:48.360 Maybe it'll take a couple more of the general uprisings 2:12:48.360 --> 2:12:50.920 where people get there as kicked, which is not great 2:12:50.960 --> 2:12:55.400 to think about, but like, these are pretty stark differences 2:12:55.480 --> 2:12:57.880 in the generations, and I think that that's kind of 2:12:57.960 --> 2:13:00.200 worth noting. And I don't know, celebrating me be the 2:13:00.240 --> 2:13:03.440 wrong term, but I don't think it's pessimistic now in 2:13:03.520 --> 2:13:05.480 terms of stuff that is pessimistic. I want to end 2:13:05.520 --> 2:13:07.680 on a note of like where I kind of think 2:13:07.800 --> 2:13:11.760 some of the lazy, dumbass pundit brain on this is 2:13:11.800 --> 2:13:14.440 coming from. And I maybe I'm wrong about this. But 2:13:15.120 --> 2:13:18.720 I have a little conspiracy theory that involves AI because 2:13:19.240 --> 2:13:21.040 I did kind of at the end of digging up 2:13:21.040 --> 2:13:22.560 a bunch of these studies, reading through I don't know, 2:13:22.600 --> 2:13:26.240 like fifteen articles or whatnot, and you know, the actual 2:13:26.360 --> 2:13:30.440 like entirety of three or four different big surveys, I 2:13:30.840 --> 2:13:33.480 decided just to hop onto one of the AI search 2:13:33.520 --> 2:13:36.919 engines that I use occasionally that is usually not helpful, 2:13:37.280 --> 2:13:38.840 just to see what it said. And I asked, like, 2:13:39.200 --> 2:13:42.280 what is the most recent data on how young gin 2:13:42.400 --> 2:13:44.600 z men are voting? 2:13:44.760 --> 2:13:45.000 Right? 2:13:45.280 --> 2:13:49.120 And it gave me mostly useless shit, Like the resources 2:13:49.120 --> 2:13:51.880 were bad. But one of the things that said, because 2:13:51.880 --> 2:13:55.280 it breaks down the different sources and like summarizes them 2:13:55.280 --> 2:13:57.680 for you. So it says here the Atlantic is kind 2:13:57.680 --> 2:13:59.920 of one of the sources. It recommends the Atlantic Reporter 2:14:00.040 --> 2:14:02.480 that gen Z and millennials are more likely to vote Republican. 2:14:02.560 --> 2:14:05.880 This could indicate a shift in political leadings among these demographics. Now, 2:14:06.080 --> 2:14:08.880 the article that it is linking there is an article 2:14:08.920 --> 2:14:11.400 called is gen Z coming for the GOP? Not all 2:14:11.440 --> 2:14:14.120 young people are Democrats? By Ronald Brownstein, And it does 2:14:14.200 --> 2:14:16.480 not say that, It does not say anything like that. 2:14:16.720 --> 2:14:19.640 It certainly does not say, and I will tell you 2:14:19.760 --> 2:14:24.200 what it fucking says, right, because it's wildly fucking different. 2:14:24.560 --> 2:14:27.920 An analysis of previously unpublished election data from Catalyst, a 2:14:27.920 --> 2:14:31.760 democratic targeting firm, by Michael pod Orzer, a former political 2:14:31.760 --> 2:14:34.400 director for the AFLCIO, shows that even the emergence of 2:14:34.440 --> 2:14:37.000 these new voters may not break the larger political stalemate 2:14:37.040 --> 2:14:39.360 that has partitioned the country in a seemingly immovable blocks 2:14:39.360 --> 2:14:42.680 of bread and blue states. Podewzer's analysis of the Catalyst data, 2:14:42.720 --> 2:14:44.920 shared exclusively with The Atlantic, found that over the past 2:14:44.960 --> 2:14:47.720 four elections, gen Z voters have broken heavily for Democrats 2:14:47.720 --> 2:14:50.240 and blue states and provide to the party's solid margins 2:14:50.240 --> 2:14:52.800 and closely contested swing states. But in red states, with 2:14:52.840 --> 2:14:55.720 a few prominent exceptions, Podhorzer surprisingly found that even gen 2:14:55.800 --> 2:14:58.640 Z voters are mostly supporting Republicans. Now, when you dig 2:14:58.640 --> 2:15:00.600 into the data, first off, that does not show that 2:15:00.760 --> 2:15:03.560 gen Z people are voting more for Republicans. It's the 2:15:03.600 --> 2:15:06.160 opposite of that. The vast majority of them are voting 2:15:06.160 --> 2:15:10.000 for Democrats, but in red states the number and it's 2:15:10.000 --> 2:15:11.840 not finding in red states that gen Z are more 2:15:11.960 --> 2:15:15.160 likely to support Republicans than previous generations, they are more 2:15:15.200 --> 2:15:19.840 progressive than previous generations. They're just still majority supporting Republicans 2:15:19.880 --> 2:15:23.440 in deep red states. Now again, if you read that quote, 2:15:23.480 --> 2:15:25.960 it's also saying there are some red states where gen 2:15:26.080 --> 2:15:29.440 z are voting overwhelmingly for Democrats, and in purple states 2:15:30.200 --> 2:15:33.640 they are wildly progressive compared to previous generations. It is, 2:15:33.680 --> 2:15:37.000 again the opposite of what that AI summary is wondering 2:15:37.080 --> 2:15:40.040 how many lazy pundits are doing this because they suck 2:15:40.040 --> 2:15:42.000 at shit and we're just like, oh, well, the Atlantic 2:15:42.000 --> 2:15:45.200 says they're more Republicans. Like, no, if you read the article, 2:15:45.240 --> 2:15:47.200 it does not say that. It's a pretty good article. 2:15:47.280 --> 2:15:50.320 Yeah, asolutely well, and this is actually there's one thing 2:15:50.360 --> 2:15:51.920 I want to mention about that polling data two, which 2:15:51.920 --> 2:15:53.920 is that the twenty twenty two election was really weird 2:15:54.800 --> 2:15:57.400 because the twenty twenty two election was supposed to be 2:15:57.680 --> 2:15:59.920 it was supposed to be a red wave election, and yeah, 2:16:00.080 --> 2:16:02.839 there actually was one, but it was it only happened. 2:16:03.120 --> 2:16:06.400 It happened in deep red states. Yes, and it happened 2:16:06.440 --> 2:16:08.040 in New York. And that that has to do with 2:16:08.040 --> 2:16:10.360 the New York media market, which is part of also 2:16:10.360 --> 2:16:13.120 why all these people's brains have been completely destroyed. But 2:16:13.520 --> 2:16:17.040 I don't actually like, it's actually genuinely unclear to me 2:16:17.080 --> 2:16:20.800 that this is even predictive of how those same people 2:16:20.800 --> 2:16:22.360 and deep red states are going to vote in like 2:16:22.400 --> 2:16:25.920 the next like four to eight years, because that was 2:16:26.040 --> 2:16:27.880 because again this this this, this was a mid term 2:16:27.960 --> 2:16:30.879 election with a democratic president. That is, when you're supposed 2:16:30.920 --> 2:16:34.320 to have the opposition like win a bunch of seats 2:16:34.320 --> 2:16:37.120 and stuff like that, and like it didn't go the 2:16:37.160 --> 2:16:39.280 way it was supposed to and so and so I 2:16:39.320 --> 2:16:42.360 think it's actually even that part is more is more 2:16:42.560 --> 2:16:45.320 like even the tiny note of it where they're like 2:16:45.840 --> 2:16:49.600 more like gen Z people voted Republicans, Like I, I 2:16:49.640 --> 2:16:51.840 don't know, I don't even know if that's gonna hold 2:16:52.680 --> 2:16:55.360 in the long run. But all of these pun like, yeah, 2:16:55.360 --> 2:16:57.359 the fact that they probably are just reading AI. 2:16:58.040 --> 2:17:02.800 Yeah, I wonder like coming across that dog shit something 2:17:02.840 --> 2:17:06.560 like just completely wrong. It's very funny. Made me feel 2:17:06.560 --> 2:17:08.840 a little bit better about the computers coming for us. 2:17:08.879 --> 2:17:11.560 All made me feel a little bit worse about the 2:17:11.600 --> 2:17:15.480 intelligence of pundits. But yeah, it's you know, and one 2:17:15.480 --> 2:17:17.600 of the things that is kind of if you're concerned 2:17:17.600 --> 2:17:20.760 about twenty twenty four. That is a worthwhile concern, and 2:17:20.760 --> 2:17:25.160 that is a real problem is that while young people 2:17:25.160 --> 2:17:29.280 are overwhelmingly progressive as voters, this is not evenly distributed 2:17:29.280 --> 2:17:32.480 across the country, and a lot of the gains in 2:17:32.600 --> 2:17:35.320 voters that progressives have seen are going to be clustered 2:17:35.320 --> 2:17:37.720 in states that were already overwhelmingly blue, and when it 2:17:37.760 --> 2:17:43.280 comes to an elect a presidential election, those are wasted votes, right, 2:17:43.720 --> 2:17:45.120 And a lot like that this and this is a 2:17:45.120 --> 2:17:48.080 problem that the Republicans dealt with a lot during the 2:17:48.120 --> 2:17:51.480 Obama years, right where there would be massively more Republican voters, 2:17:51.480 --> 2:17:53.160 but they would be clustered in these areas that dims 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:55.160 were never going to win, and so it didn't help 2:17:55.200 --> 2:17:56.199 them electorally. 2:17:56.360 --> 2:17:56.560 Right. 2:17:57.720 --> 2:18:00.400 That is kind of worth noting. It's potentially a thing. 2:18:00.520 --> 2:18:03.279 Although a lot of the gains when people are freaking 2:18:03.320 --> 2:18:06.160 out about like, oh, you know, Biden's numbers among non 2:18:06.160 --> 2:18:10.080 white voters have gotten worse, that is probably true, almost 2:18:10.080 --> 2:18:12.720 certainly true to some extent, But a lot of those 2:18:12.840 --> 2:18:15.920 vote gains are clustered areas that were so heavily read 2:18:16.040 --> 2:18:18.280 it may not have any impact on the hills for 2:18:18.360 --> 2:18:19.160 all electorals. 2:18:19.320 --> 2:18:21.160 I will say the one, the one place for that 2:18:21.200 --> 2:18:24.359 matter actually does matter is Michigan, Yes, because and Michigan 2:18:24.400 --> 2:18:27.520 had a huge Muslim population who are unbelievably pissed at 2:18:27.520 --> 2:18:30.680 Biden for you know, offering them the deal We're going 2:18:30.680 --> 2:18:32.560 to murder your family, and also you have to vote 2:18:32.600 --> 2:18:33.560 for us, which. 2:18:33.400 --> 2:18:35.920 Is like I'm not doing the Will Stancil thing and 2:18:35.920 --> 2:18:37.080 saying there's nothing to worry about. 2:18:37.080 --> 2:18:39.760 No, I'm saying there are places where it does matter yere, 2:18:39.840 --> 2:18:43.480 but like, yeah, yeah, it's unclear, and a lot of 2:18:43.480 --> 2:18:45.240 what may be happen. Well, a lot of what is 2:18:45.280 --> 2:18:47.680 certainly happening, although this doesn't mean that there won't be 2:18:47.680 --> 2:18:49.120 because I think there's a good chance there will be 2:18:49.120 --> 2:18:51.959 an electoral impact. But a lot of what is objectively happening, 2:18:52.760 --> 2:18:55.640 both on the left and the right, is increasing numbers 2:18:55.720 --> 2:18:58.760 of voters who are in states that would never never 2:18:58.840 --> 2:19:01.400 going to be in play electorate world. Yeah, right, the 2:19:01.400 --> 2:19:03.840 electoral college is bullshit, you know. Yeah, It's like like 2:19:03.879 --> 2:19:05.879 I've I've lived in Illinois my entire life. It is 2:19:05.879 --> 2:19:08.720 not possible for me to cast a vote that matters. Yeah, 2:19:08.760 --> 2:19:12.160 Like it just isn't. Yes, just how the system works, right, 2:19:12.160 --> 2:19:15.160 It's like it's a great, great, great job, good job. Yeah, 2:19:15.240 --> 2:19:16.480 he wrote the constitution. 2:19:17.240 --> 2:19:20.760 So anyway, I think that's that's about enough to get into. 2:19:22.360 --> 2:19:24.800 I hope this has been edifying and useful to people. 2:19:25.080 --> 2:19:27.400 Uh Mia, you got anything else to say before we 2:19:27.520 --> 2:19:28.000 roll out here? 2:19:28.879 --> 2:19:35.039 Uh Molotov twenty twenty four, just like Malotav twenty twenty Yeah, 2:19:35.280 --> 2:19:39.360 don't the Washington Post. Okay, I want to close in 2:19:39.440 --> 2:19:41.800 the note that the Washington Post editorial board managed to 2:19:41.800 --> 2:19:44.400 find the one socialist in the entire US who's anti 2:19:44.480 --> 2:19:48.160 abortion maker, a steam maker or writer for them. 2:19:48.120 --> 2:19:52.400 So less Yeah, it's but what are you speaking for? 2:19:52.560 --> 2:19:56.360 Why is it important that we have this voice of 2:19:56.440 --> 2:19:58.760 a person like fucking hell? 2:19:59.640 --> 2:20:00.000 Got it? 2:20:00.000 --> 2:20:04.120 It's tiring, speaking of tiring, I'm tired. 2:20:04.200 --> 2:20:05.000 So now we're done. 2:20:05.120 --> 2:20:21.920 Goodbye. Ah. 2:20:22.000 --> 2:20:25.240 I have slain the God of Abraham and cast his 2:20:25.440 --> 2:20:28.600 ruin upon the mountain side, and now I am the 2:20:28.680 --> 2:20:32.080 Lord and Savior of all. Podcasting Robert Evans, This is 2:20:32.120 --> 2:20:35.279 it could happen here a podcast about things falling apart 2:20:36.240 --> 2:20:42.640 and about my slow descent into theistic narcissism. Here with 2:20:42.680 --> 2:20:45.000 me today, Garrison Davis and me along, How are you 2:20:45.040 --> 2:20:47.080 guys doing great. 2:20:47.240 --> 2:20:50.480 He wasn't like this like fifteen minutes ago, that there's 2:20:50.480 --> 2:20:52.320 been a rapid radicalization process. 2:20:52.640 --> 2:20:57.120 Yeah, speaking speaking of rapid radicalization. 2:20:57.160 --> 2:21:00.440 I downed a bottle of this alive ancient mushroom lick elixer, 2:21:00.480 --> 2:21:03.480 and it has overpowered me. 2:21:08.320 --> 2:21:11.000 Not a sponsor too, free free, free advertising. 2:21:12.080 --> 2:21:14.640 But if they want to pay us, I will probably 2:21:14.680 --> 2:21:18.959 stop claiming to have slain the God of Abraham. This 2:21:19.200 --> 2:21:23.840 is this Week in Terrorism. Uh, a show title we've 2:21:23.840 --> 2:21:26.240 never used before and may never use again, but we 2:21:26.280 --> 2:21:26.680 wanted to. 2:21:27.360 --> 2:21:28.720 We're probably gonna have to use it again. 2:21:29.120 --> 2:21:31.760 None of the terrorism we're talking about has occurred this week. 2:21:31.800 --> 2:21:34.360 It all occurred in previous weeks. We were out last week. 2:21:34.480 --> 2:21:36.960 We wanted to talk about some of our recent terrorism 2:21:37.480 --> 2:21:41.360 attacks to discuss kind of what we're seeing in radicalization 2:21:41.480 --> 2:21:45.040 of the people who were carrying out usually shootings, but 2:21:45.080 --> 2:21:49.200 not exclusively. We're actually going to start with a hammer attack. Yeah, 2:21:49.360 --> 2:21:51.000 what we're seeing out there because. 2:21:51.000 --> 2:21:55.920 Very British style. Actually, I think we're ending on a 2:21:56.000 --> 2:21:56.720 stabbing too. 2:21:56.959 --> 2:21:59.040 S ending on a stabbing. Most of these are not shootings. 2:21:59.040 --> 2:21:59.600 I'm a liar. 2:22:00.400 --> 2:22:01.640 It's the mushroom juice. 2:22:01.920 --> 2:22:02.600 But Yeah, we're. 2:22:02.520 --> 2:22:06.200 Gonna start by talking about the attack on Paul Pelosi, who's, 2:22:06.240 --> 2:22:08.840 of course Nancy Pelosi's fuck buddy. 2:22:08.920 --> 2:22:10.400 Some people call him a husband. 2:22:11.000 --> 2:22:14.879 I think that's an archaic term, but yeah, he got 2:22:14.959 --> 2:22:19.640 assaulted in his house by this guy, Brian Depayap. This 2:22:19.800 --> 2:22:22.760 was like a year or so ago, and he just 2:22:22.800 --> 2:22:26.200 recently got convicted of a bunch of stuff. He's going 2:22:26.240 --> 2:22:29.000 to be going to forever prison. But we're going to 2:22:29.040 --> 2:22:33.240 talk about that attack essentially. I wanted to start with 2:22:33.320 --> 2:22:35.720 kind of a little bit of audio of the attack itself. 2:22:35.760 --> 2:22:38.520 This is from police body camera, and basically what happened 2:22:38.560 --> 2:22:42.680 is this guy Brian broke into the Pelosi's backyard, which 2:22:42.760 --> 2:22:45.560 was not guarded. Nancy was away from the house. She 2:22:45.680 --> 2:22:49.280 had their security detail. Capitol Police does not protect spouses 2:22:49.320 --> 2:22:53.960 and family members of Congress people. And he used a 2:22:54.040 --> 2:22:56.800 hammer in one of the two very large backs he 2:22:56.840 --> 2:22:59.840 brought with him to bust into the house and then 2:23:00.440 --> 2:23:03.480 had a conversation with Paul Pelosi that he insists was 2:23:03.600 --> 2:23:06.160 very polite until the police showed up, at which point 2:23:06.240 --> 2:23:08.320 he started bashing him in the skull with a hammer. 2:23:08.680 --> 2:23:10.920 And we're going to get into more of what happened, 2:23:10.920 --> 2:23:13.680 but I wanted to I want to start by playing 2:23:13.680 --> 2:23:17.360 that audio. This is right at the point that the 2:23:17.400 --> 2:23:18.480 police opened the door. 2:23:20.280 --> 2:23:20.800 How you doing? 2:23:22.080 --> 2:23:22.680 What's going on? 2:23:22.720 --> 2:23:22.920 Man? 2:23:24.879 --> 2:23:31.120 That's the guy? What drop the hammer? What is har one? 2:23:33.120 --> 2:23:36.920 And so what is actually happening in the video is 2:23:37.600 --> 2:23:42.360 this guy Brian, who is like he's got a big, 2:23:42.520 --> 2:23:45.520 very large hammer in his hands and like there's a 2:23:45.680 --> 2:23:48.760 very mild struggle going on for it. Pelosi has one 2:23:48.840 --> 2:23:51.600 hand on the hammer, which is a reasonable thing to 2:23:51.640 --> 2:23:53.920 want to do in this situation, and the guy just 2:23:53.959 --> 2:23:56.920 looks kind of stunned. And the police show up and 2:23:56.959 --> 2:23:59.360 they're like, yeah, man, drop the hammer, and he says no, 2:23:59.560 --> 2:24:02.800 and they, to be fair to the police, pretty reasonably 2:24:02.920 --> 2:24:05.160 take a step towards him, and he pulls the hammer 2:24:05.160 --> 2:24:07.160 away from Paul and hits him in the head several times. 2:24:07.200 --> 2:24:10.360 The police tackle him off. Paul got hit, hurt very badly. 2:24:10.400 --> 2:24:12.880 This is a pretty ugly attack. He's an old man. 2:24:12.920 --> 2:24:14.400 He got hit in the head with a hammer several 2:24:14.440 --> 2:24:18.320 times by a much younger man. Pretty ugly. One of 2:24:18.320 --> 2:24:20.560 the things that becomes clear if you watch the earlier 2:24:20.600 --> 2:24:22.640 footage of this guy in their backyard, because they have 2:24:22.640 --> 2:24:25.080 a security camera, and if you watch this footage, is that, like, 2:24:25.720 --> 2:24:28.360 this is not a guy who had a super clear 2:24:28.480 --> 2:24:30.800 plan about what he was going to do. This is 2:24:30.840 --> 2:24:32.720 a guy who was kind of flying by the seat 2:24:32.720 --> 2:24:36.600 of his pants, and when the police came in kind 2:24:36.600 --> 2:24:40.039 of irrationally like based on his existing plans, decided to 2:24:40.080 --> 2:24:42.520 swing at him. And when he was at court, like 2:24:42.680 --> 2:24:46.320 some of the things to Pape said were very interesting, 2:24:48.760 --> 2:24:51.800 he basically like, you know, he busts into their backyard. 2:24:52.440 --> 2:24:55.680 Paul Pelosi in his pajamas, confronts him when he hears it, 2:24:56.160 --> 2:25:00.080 and Depap asks, are you Paul Pelosi? Where's Nancy? Where 2:25:00.120 --> 2:25:03.440 is Nancy? And Pelosi's like, she's not home, She's going 2:25:03.480 --> 2:25:06.000 to be gone for several days. And de Pap started 2:25:06.040 --> 2:25:09.039 threatening to tie Pelosi up. He does this like ten times. 2:25:09.760 --> 2:25:11.840 Eventually Paul's able to get away briefly to go to 2:25:11.879 --> 2:25:14.560 the bathroom where he has a cell phone, and he 2:25:14.640 --> 2:25:18.000 calls the police and like while he's on the phone 2:25:18.080 --> 2:25:20.119 with a dispatcher, you can hear de Pap like telling 2:25:20.160 --> 2:25:20.800 him to hang up. 2:25:21.920 --> 2:25:22.120 You know. 2:25:22.240 --> 2:25:25.840 The police get there and he attacks him. The first 2:25:25.840 --> 2:25:27.560 thing that happens in the wake of this this is 2:25:27.560 --> 2:25:31.120 obviously big news, and the entirety of right wing media 2:25:31.160 --> 2:25:34.520 basically decided that this was Paul Pelosi's lover, and. 2:25:34.560 --> 2:25:38.360 Yeah, I was under the impression from reparable sources that 2:25:38.560 --> 2:25:41.560 this was this was Paul's gay lover. 2:25:41.720 --> 2:25:42.920 Is ye I was told that. 2:25:43.120 --> 2:25:47.560 Immediately comes out. Marjorie Taylor Green spreads this, Tucker Carlson 2:25:47.600 --> 2:25:52.039 spreads this. Elon Musk spreads this. Representative Carla Tinni spreads 2:25:52.040 --> 2:25:54.920 this again because this is very clearly a right wing 2:25:54.959 --> 2:26:01.160 attack motivated by right wing media on unelectedly pretty brutal attack, 2:26:01.240 --> 2:26:03.280 not on an elected leader. Sorry, I'm the husband of 2:26:03.320 --> 2:26:06.760 an elected leader, right And I wanted to quote really 2:26:06.840 --> 2:26:09.480 quickly from an MSN write up on this that talks 2:26:09.520 --> 2:26:13.640 about like why Depap says he did this. Depap explained 2:26:13.640 --> 2:26:15.480 that he broke into the Pelosi home in order to 2:26:15.560 --> 2:26:19.240 lure University of Michigan Anthropology and Women's Study professor Gail 2:26:19.360 --> 2:26:22.760 Rubin to their house. Ruben's research, according to her professional bio, 2:26:22.840 --> 2:26:27.840 focuses on LGBTQ studies, gay and lesbian ethnography, sexual populations 2:26:27.840 --> 2:26:30.959 and geographies, sexology, and feminist theory. She is known for 2:26:30.959 --> 2:26:33.840 her nineteen eighty four essay Thinking Sex, which is considered 2:26:33.840 --> 2:26:34.920 a founding text. 2:26:34.640 --> 2:26:35.400 Of queer theory. 2:26:35.760 --> 2:26:37.959 Paul was never a target, De Pap said in court, 2:26:38.040 --> 2:26:40.200 explaining that he was only using the pelosis to get 2:26:40.240 --> 2:26:42.720 to my other targets and that he felt really bad 2:26:42.800 --> 2:26:45.760 for Paul Pelosi. He explained that he spent six hours 2:26:45.800 --> 2:26:49.560 a day watching political commentary on YouTube before he was arrested, 2:26:49.680 --> 2:26:51.920 where he learned that everything was a lie coming from 2:26:51.959 --> 2:26:55.000 the press. He listened off common right wing grievances, according 2:26:55.000 --> 2:26:57.000 to NBC News, to explain why he broke. 2:26:56.840 --> 2:26:57.440 Into the home. 2:26:58.000 --> 2:27:00.480 He claims to have heard about Gail Ruben from anti 2:27:00.640 --> 2:27:03.840 LGBTQ activist James Lindsay, who is the same person who 2:27:03.840 --> 2:27:07.560 claims to have popularize the groomers slur against LGBTQ people. 2:27:07.800 --> 2:27:10.560 The PAP said that he regularly listened to Lindsay's podcast. 2:27:10.879 --> 2:27:12.680 The takeaway I got is that she wants to turn 2:27:12.720 --> 2:27:16.520 our schools into pedophile molestation factories. To Pap said, so, 2:27:17.520 --> 2:27:19.039 one of the things that's really interesting to me is 2:27:19.040 --> 2:27:21.200 that this guy's in the home of one of the 2:27:21.240 --> 2:27:25.360 most powerful people in the entire country, who is worth 2:27:25.440 --> 2:27:29.240 one hundred million dollars or more so also extremely wealthy person. 2:27:30.080 --> 2:27:33.279 But she's not his target. His target is this woman's 2:27:33.320 --> 2:27:38.840 studies professor who James Lindsay has convinced him is trying 2:27:38.879 --> 2:27:40.440 to molest all of the kids in America. 2:27:40.560 --> 2:27:40.720 Right. 2:27:40.959 --> 2:27:44.240 This is again, this is entirely stochastic terrorism. This is 2:27:44.280 --> 2:27:47.080 the fault. James Lindsay wanted stuff like this to happen. 2:27:47.240 --> 2:27:50.400 That's why he does what he does. This is on him, 2:27:50.720 --> 2:27:52.600 and it's a very clear example. This is if you 2:27:52.640 --> 2:27:55.760 go into the stude's backstory, he was not always like this. 2:27:55.800 --> 2:27:58.160 He used to be, I think a pro nudity activist, 2:27:58.200 --> 2:28:02.560 but like was not a guy who was like wildly conservative. 2:28:03.000 --> 2:28:05.920 And then the pandemic hits and he's spending all day 2:28:06.080 --> 2:28:10.640 playing video games alone, increasingly isolated, and he starts going 2:28:10.680 --> 2:28:13.879 down these YouTube and podcast primarily listening to these right 2:28:13.920 --> 2:28:16.480 wing podcasters. Lindsay's one of them. He's also a huge 2:28:16.520 --> 2:28:20.120 Timpool listener. Who is this super right wing guy who 2:28:20.120 --> 2:28:23.360 believes that, like, we're already in a shooting civil war 2:28:23.600 --> 2:28:27.080 with the left, And yeah, these are all big groomer guys, 2:28:27.160 --> 2:28:30.400 these are all women's studies professors are the most dangerous 2:28:30.440 --> 2:28:33.640 people in the country, and this is a vulnerable dude 2:28:33.720 --> 2:28:37.320 who the pandemic isolated from what social networks he had had, 2:28:37.680 --> 2:28:40.920 and he just kind of completely loses his shit. It's 2:28:40.959 --> 2:28:44.520 a very clear radicalization path. And it's a big bummer 2:28:44.600 --> 2:28:48.320 because this is a deeply mentally unwell man who was 2:28:48.360 --> 2:28:52.320 taken advantage of by a right wing media ecosystem that 2:28:52.440 --> 2:28:55.480 exists to churn exactly this kind of guy towards violence 2:28:55.520 --> 2:28:57.400 against their ideological opponents. 2:28:59.000 --> 2:29:01.520 Now, it is certainly interesting, is this attack was more 2:29:01.560 --> 2:29:04.440 deeply weird than what we all initially thought, like, oh, 2:29:04.520 --> 2:29:06.520 like someone was trying to kill Pelosi, right, is, Like. 2:29:06.520 --> 2:29:08.360 I'm not surprised someone would try to do that. I'm 2:29:08.400 --> 2:29:10.640 not saying it's just I'm not like saying that because fucker, 2:29:10.680 --> 2:29:13.440 I'm saying that. Like, I'm not surprised. She's incredibly powerful. 2:29:13.480 --> 2:29:14.960 Of course people want to kill her. Yeah, she's like 2:29:14.959 --> 2:29:15.440 the way it is. 2:29:15.520 --> 2:29:18.160 Yeah, we all saw what happened on January sixth. The 2:29:18.200 --> 2:29:19.800 come on, guys, Yeah, but. 2:29:19.800 --> 2:29:21.320 Like this is normal politics. 2:29:21.400 --> 2:29:25.080 Yes, But like the idea that you're like holding holding 2:29:25.120 --> 2:29:28.640 Pelosi is a hostage to get like a gender theory 2:29:28.920 --> 2:29:33.240 women's studies professor is just so much more like like 2:29:33.800 --> 2:29:37.360 highlighting the type of American brain rot that is just 2:29:37.560 --> 2:29:40.800 totally taking over large swaths of the media, of the 2:29:40.840 --> 2:29:42.320 media ecosystem at this point. 2:29:42.400 --> 2:29:44.680 Yeah, I think one of my favorite details from this 2:29:44.840 --> 2:29:46.880 is that if you go into like his court case, 2:29:46.959 --> 2:29:50.439 why he chose to attack the home of again Nancy Pelosi, 2:29:51.120 --> 2:29:54.840 super wealthy, powerful person with a security detail, is because 2:29:54.879 --> 2:29:58.400 he believed this Gail Rubin, this professor lived in a 2:29:58.480 --> 2:29:59.760 fortress that he. 2:29:59.760 --> 2:30:01.000 Could not break into. 2:30:01.640 --> 2:30:05.640 This woman's studies professor lives in an underground bunker. 2:30:05.959 --> 2:30:08.280 It was easier to get to the speaker of the 2:30:08.320 --> 2:30:13.280 house's home that it is a woman studies professor's house. 2:30:14.200 --> 2:30:17.279 I think it's interesting too that it was specifically James Lindsay, 2:30:17.280 --> 2:30:19.000 who I don't know. Have we talked about him. 2:30:18.840 --> 2:30:19.560 Really on the show. 2:30:20.760 --> 2:30:22.879 I'm I'm sure in passing. 2:30:22.560 --> 2:30:24.920 But we had a big Twitter fight with him earlier 2:30:24.959 --> 2:30:25.400 this year. 2:30:25.840 --> 2:30:32.400 Yeah, I've had held yeah, my, you know. So he's 2:30:32.440 --> 2:30:35.080 an interesting he's like kind of like a proto Chris 2:30:35.160 --> 2:30:39.200 Rufo like, but he's interesting because he's one of these 2:30:39.240 --> 2:30:43.600 people who makes a very classic mistake in in when 2:30:43.600 --> 2:30:45.600 you're trying to become a media person which is that 2:30:45.640 --> 2:30:49.520 he tries to do theory bullshit and it's on it 2:30:49.640 --> 2:30:53.840 it's it's nonsense like and hey like it's it's you know, 2:30:53.879 --> 2:30:58.359 but his things he's trying to derive basically, like effectively, 2:30:58.360 --> 2:31:00.400 what he's trying to do is derive a theory radical 2:31:00.440 --> 2:31:04.080 basis for the whole like Judeo Bolshevik conspiracy, which he 2:31:04.560 --> 2:31:06.920 was one of the big sort of cultural Marxism people. Yeah, 2:31:07.000 --> 2:31:08.040 well he is. 2:31:08.080 --> 2:31:11.920 He is probably most known for propagating the critical race 2:31:12.000 --> 2:31:14.240 theory kind of debacle that happened a few years ago 2:31:14.480 --> 2:31:18.879 that was mostly spearheaded by this guy, James Lindsay. 2:31:19.280 --> 2:31:21.360 Yeah, And he's trying to he's like his project is 2:31:21.360 --> 2:31:24.520 intellectual project. He's trying to trace this line from Hegel 2:31:24.600 --> 2:31:28.760 through Marx, through Gromsey, through Mouth, through the Frankfurt School, 2:31:29.360 --> 2:31:34.200 through the sixties radicals, and it's it's It's interesting though, 2:31:34.240 --> 2:31:36.879 because what he's doing is he's he's he's he's part 2:31:36.920 --> 2:31:41.840 of this really systemic attempt to completely and we saw 2:31:41.879 --> 2:31:43.560 this this this is the result of this is this 2:31:43.560 --> 2:31:47.760 Paul Pelosi attack. It's to completely obscure the actual power 2:31:47.760 --> 2:31:49.959 relations of American society to the point where Yeah, the 2:31:49.959 --> 2:31:53.000 thing we've been talking about happens where because this person 2:31:53.040 --> 2:31:56.240 thinks that this Marxist conspiracy from gender studies professors is 2:31:56.240 --> 2:31:58.879 actually the thing that controls the US. He is like 2:31:59.040 --> 2:32:02.000 kidnapping one of like the husband of one of the 2:32:02.000 --> 2:32:05.279 most powerful people in the United States because he thinks 2:32:05.360 --> 2:32:08.360 that as a way to get to a gender studies professor. 2:32:08.400 --> 2:32:11.440 It's it's this, it's this interesting I think, like, I 2:32:11.440 --> 2:32:14.359 don't know, it's I think it's this interesting demonstration of 2:32:14.360 --> 2:32:18.600 of how of how right wing ideology is specifically designed 2:32:18.640 --> 2:32:22.080 to act to like conceal the actual power relations to 2:32:22.120 --> 2:32:25.000 society and then blame like queer people for it. It's like. 2:32:27.040 --> 2:32:31.200 It's taken Lindsey comes out of academia too, right. He's 2:32:31.240 --> 2:32:33.080 like this professor at a in watch. 2:32:33.120 --> 2:32:35.200 But he's like he's like a math professor or something. 2:32:35.240 --> 2:32:36.680 He's like no, no, It's like. 2:32:36.920 --> 2:32:40.680 It's basically the gist of what why. What happens is 2:32:40.720 --> 2:32:42.920 he realizes you're never going to get rich being a 2:32:42.920 --> 2:32:46.279 math professor, but if you become a right wing thought leader, 2:32:46.400 --> 2:32:49.000 you know there's money in that. So he makes the 2:32:49.160 --> 2:32:51.960 series of bullshit claims about how he's being oppressed by 2:32:52.480 --> 2:32:56.920 fucking evil progressive fascism. And yeah, this is why. Also 2:32:57.040 --> 2:32:59.800 all of his grievances are so focused around academics. It's 2:33:00.000 --> 2:33:04.000 because he still has academia brainworms, where everything that matters 2:33:04.160 --> 2:33:09.200 is like what this handful of upper middle class professors 2:33:09.240 --> 2:33:11.959 at fancy ivy league schools argue about. 2:33:12.560 --> 2:33:15.879 He also believes that queer people are engaging in a 2:33:15.879 --> 2:33:19.360 form of ancient hermetic magic, which is. 2:33:19.480 --> 2:33:22.039 That party Harrison. If I know you at all, that 2:33:22.160 --> 2:33:24.760 part's true, Like that's accurate. 2:33:25.280 --> 2:33:27.280 It's so funny that he got there because like, like when 2:33:27.320 --> 2:33:29.360 I was arguing with him, he was trying to argue 2:33:29.400 --> 2:33:33.560 that Mao had read this Gramsey, who's this Italian Marxist 2:33:33.600 --> 2:33:37.400 theory she demonstrably cannot have read because Gramsey's prison notebooks 2:33:37.400 --> 2:33:39.920 don't come out until like art translated in Chinese, until 2:33:39.920 --> 2:33:43.160 after Mao dies. So it's like it's it's physically impossible 2:33:43.160 --> 2:33:44.640 for him to have done this. But it's funny because 2:33:44.680 --> 2:33:47.760 like he's gone from that to like the queer hermetic 2:33:48.200 --> 2:33:51.440 like yes, yes, to destroy the. 2:33:53.600 --> 2:33:55.920 Who do we want to talk about next? Because I 2:33:55.959 --> 2:33:58.760 have I have, I have my Dayton Shooter, and I 2:33:59.080 --> 2:33:59.560 know we we. 2:33:59.840 --> 2:34:02.440 Have we have a list of let's do, let's let's do, 2:34:02.520 --> 2:34:04.320 let's do date and shooter and then close out with 2:34:04.400 --> 2:34:06.760 the two antipas. 2:34:06.400 --> 2:34:08.920 And yeah, so yeah, I'm not I don't know shit 2:34:09.000 --> 2:34:11.040 about this, so dating me up, motherfuckers. 2:34:11.800 --> 2:34:14.800 So a few days before Thanksgiving, well home, we should 2:34:14.800 --> 2:34:15.720 we should take geo. 2:34:16.200 --> 2:34:19.440 Oh yeah, speaking of Thanksgiving, you know what, I'm thankful 2:34:19.480 --> 2:34:24.840 for the fact that we're supported by advertisers and we're back. Okay, 2:34:24.920 --> 2:34:26.720 let's talk about this fucking Dyton shooting. 2:34:27.360 --> 2:34:31.720 A few days before Thanksgiving, someone walked into a Walmart 2:34:31.760 --> 2:34:35.640 in Beaver Creek, Ohio with I believe it was a 2:34:36.000 --> 2:34:38.480 it was a high point forty five caliber carbine. 2:34:38.120 --> 2:34:40.720 With wow high point Okay, yeah, yeah. 2:34:41.240 --> 2:34:44.080 He shot four people before eventually dying of a self 2:34:44.120 --> 2:34:48.200 inflicted gunshot wound. Victims were transferred to the hospital. It 2:34:48.200 --> 2:34:51.680 looks like nobody actually died besides the shooter. So hey, 2:34:51.720 --> 2:34:55.600 that's a win, great, great job medical medical teams. But 2:34:56.360 --> 2:34:59.680 upon looking into this this guy's home, it's very very 2:34:59.760 --> 2:35:03.080 kind of standard stuff. Ever since twenty sixteen, we have 2:35:03.160 --> 2:35:08.480 Nazi flags, we have Nazi books. He's he went to 2:35:08.520 --> 2:35:11.800 a Christian online school. He was twenty years old. He 2:35:11.879 --> 2:35:15.039 spent almost all of his time at home on the internet. 2:35:16.440 --> 2:35:19.840 He did not believe the Holocaust was real. He had 2:35:19.879 --> 2:35:24.960 been to the hospital before for mental health evaluations. The 2:35:25.040 --> 2:35:28.119 FBI referred to his beliefs as a quote loosely organized 2:35:28.160 --> 2:35:30.960 movement of individuals and groups that espouse some combination of racist, 2:35:30.959 --> 2:35:35.040 aidy Semitica, zenophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic, and homophobic ideology, which is 2:35:35.080 --> 2:35:38.800 a very very broad broadway of saying. Yeah, he was 2:35:38.920 --> 2:35:41.280 like a far right nut job. He was very very 2:35:41.600 --> 2:35:45.560 typical kind of Nazi guy. He had two swastika flags. 2:35:45.959 --> 2:35:50.720 Now because he died, it's where people are still putting 2:35:50.720 --> 2:35:53.440 together like what exactly led to him to like do 2:35:53.640 --> 2:35:58.440 this specific act because they can't like talk to him. 2:35:59.440 --> 2:36:03.560 But yeah, it was very very typical sort of thing 2:36:03.680 --> 2:36:06.200 of this guy deciding to go into a Walmart and 2:36:06.200 --> 2:36:09.760 do a shooting. This is something that other Nazi accelerationists 2:36:10.040 --> 2:36:13.440 have done before. It's something that will probably keep happening. 2:36:13.800 --> 2:36:15.560 Oh yeah, I mean for sure. 2:36:15.400 --> 2:36:17.080 It's it's it's it's, it's it's it's it's not like 2:36:17.120 --> 2:36:21.360 a big story, it's it's just another thing that's happened. 2:36:21.400 --> 2:36:24.000 But it is weird, the sort of like normalization of 2:36:24.040 --> 2:36:26.160 it of like oh yeah, not see to the Walmart 2:36:26.160 --> 2:36:29.440 shooting again. Isn't actually a story anymore. It's just like no, 2:36:29.840 --> 2:36:31.320 it's just it's just another Tuesday. 2:36:32.120 --> 2:36:35.119 No, And this is like what the right wants, by 2:36:35.160 --> 2:36:38.400 the way, is that like when they do these mass shootings, 2:36:38.879 --> 2:36:41.560 it does not make the news, and whenever they can 2:36:41.560 --> 2:36:45.080 blame a shooting on a queer, a trans person, they 2:36:45.080 --> 2:36:46.800 try to keep it, make it be the only thing 2:36:46.840 --> 2:36:49.160 anyone talks about, right, Like this is this is part 2:36:49.160 --> 2:36:52.480 of the plan, you know. Yeah, And it's a bummer 2:36:52.520 --> 2:36:57.519 that it's it's worked, just because like, h it's impossible 2:36:57.560 --> 2:37:00.560 to stay at an equal level of anger every time 2:37:00.760 --> 2:37:04.119 this happens. It's so common, you know, like you just can't. 2:37:04.160 --> 2:37:07.560 You can't continue existing and have the same reaction to 2:37:07.600 --> 2:37:08.880 these that you had in twenty nineteen. 2:37:10.360 --> 2:37:12.560 Yeah, So I mean like that, I don't have much 2:37:12.560 --> 2:37:14.920 else on this because it's just it's this guy who 2:37:14.959 --> 2:37:17.360 played video games alone for most of his life, went 2:37:17.400 --> 2:37:21.000 to a Christian online homeschool, never really interacted with the public. 2:37:22.120 --> 2:37:27.520 It was almost solely existed within this like medio ecosystem online, 2:37:27.800 --> 2:37:30.520 which pushed him towards buying a book on the history 2:37:30.520 --> 2:37:33.560 of the SS and buying multiple Nazi flags and not 2:37:33.640 --> 2:37:37.520 thinking the Holocaust is real. And this, this is the 2:37:37.600 --> 2:37:42.640 inevitable result of this sort of thing. So I guess 2:37:43.280 --> 2:37:48.280 do we want to segue to Vermont for our next next? 2:37:48.440 --> 2:37:48.560 Like? 2:37:48.879 --> 2:37:51.680 Something happened? I think less than a week later, it 2:37:51.760 --> 2:37:52.240 sure did. 2:37:52.280 --> 2:37:55.800 But first, Garrison, speaking of segues, did you realize that 2:37:55.800 --> 2:37:58.360 the guy who bought the segue company died in a 2:37:58.400 --> 2:37:59.960 segue crash in Scotland? 2:38:00.080 --> 2:38:00.160 Ye? 2:38:00.520 --> 2:38:01.879 Segment off of. 2:38:03.480 --> 2:38:04.000 Garrison. 2:38:04.560 --> 2:38:06.000 He sure did you know? 2:38:06.360 --> 2:38:09.080 This is this is why I think there is a 2:38:09.120 --> 2:38:11.440 little bit of magic that is reel, because every once 2:38:11.520 --> 2:38:14.039 in a while, the funniest thing happens. 2:38:15.640 --> 2:38:18.200 Oh man, what a what a stupid product? 2:38:18.560 --> 2:38:19.160 Segues. 2:38:20.879 --> 2:38:23.080 I remember when those first came out and people were like, 2:38:23.120 --> 2:38:26.480 this is the future of transportation. And then everyone who 2:38:26.600 --> 2:38:28.920 was not completely brain dead was like, of course they're not. 2:38:28.920 --> 2:38:30.959 Look at how dumb those things look. Nobody's gonna want 2:38:30.959 --> 2:38:31.560 to drive these. 2:38:31.879 --> 2:38:34.480 I mean, if I was a self educated finance guy, 2:38:35.440 --> 2:38:38.960 I'm sure I would be able to to to to 2:38:39.080 --> 2:38:41.640 estimate the life cycle of the sega. 2:38:41.800 --> 2:38:43.480 You're not gonna make it if you if you just 2:38:43.600 --> 2:38:46.360 walk like a peasant, you gotta get a one wheel 2:38:46.360 --> 2:38:47.279 that explodes. 2:38:48.280 --> 2:38:50.720 It's so funny to me too, because it's like like 2:38:51.200 --> 2:38:53.080 a thing there. Like I genuinely think is a real 2:38:53.240 --> 2:38:56.160 kind of shift in our modes of transportation, is that 2:38:56.200 --> 2:38:58.840 people really did start using electric bikes more and then 2:38:58.879 --> 2:39:00.640 as a lost to those are three and stuff. 2:39:00.720 --> 2:39:01.960 Yeah, it was a huge amount. 2:39:02.280 --> 2:39:02.520 Actually. 2:39:04.240 --> 2:39:07.560 Instead no, it's like, yeah, we don't need you don't 2:39:07.560 --> 2:39:11.480 need to fuck with the form factor. People are happy 2:39:11.600 --> 2:39:15.160 using bikes. They're just too slow and sometimes too much 2:39:15.200 --> 2:39:17.800 effort is required. So you make that easier and then 2:39:17.800 --> 2:39:20.959 people don't drive as fucking much. Great idea. Speaking of 2:39:21.000 --> 2:39:25.400 a bad idea, let's talk about this other mass shooter 2:39:25.560 --> 2:39:28.800 in Vermont from from last week. This actually happened on 2:39:28.879 --> 2:39:32.360 Thanksgiving Day, So this guy, I think it was on 2:39:32.400 --> 2:39:33.240 Thanksgiving Day. 2:39:34.240 --> 2:39:36.360 It may have been like a day or two later. 2:39:36.680 --> 2:39:38.680 It was Saturday night, so that would have been. Yeah, 2:39:38.680 --> 2:39:40.280 that would have been like the day or two after, 2:39:40.680 --> 2:39:43.920 two days after Thanksgiving. So two days after Thanksgiving, you know, 2:39:44.000 --> 2:39:48.720 you've got these three twenty year old Palestinian men who 2:39:48.760 --> 2:39:51.840 are in town visiting family. You know they're doing I 2:39:51.840 --> 2:39:53.439 think they go over and do they do a Thanksgiving 2:39:53.480 --> 2:39:56.440 dinner with some friends. They're over another people's. 2:39:56.280 --> 2:39:58.920 Yeah, yeah, this big thing they were leaving was it 2:39:59.040 --> 2:40:01.680 was they Yes, they went to an eight year old's 2:40:01.720 --> 2:40:06.760 birthday party. Yes, yes, yeah. 2:40:06.760 --> 2:40:09.480 They're with one of them's uncle who lives in Burlington. 2:40:09.720 --> 2:40:13.640 And these kids are all students at different Northeast I think, 2:40:13.680 --> 2:40:17.280 all Northeast colleges. One's from Brown University, once from Haverford, 2:40:17.680 --> 2:40:21.160 one is from Trinity College. Two of them are citizens 2:40:21.200 --> 2:40:24.320 and the other is I think naturalized or at least 2:40:24.320 --> 2:40:26.920 a permanent resident. And at some point after you know 2:40:26.959 --> 2:40:30.800 they're they're hanging out at this event, family event, They're like, 2:40:30.920 --> 2:40:32.800 let's go on a walk. You know, it's a nice night. 2:40:32.920 --> 2:40:36.080 Let's let's have us a walk around. And they're they're 2:40:36.080 --> 2:40:40.119 walking around. They're near an apartment building and this forty 2:40:40.200 --> 2:40:45.200 eight year old man named Jason j Eaton steps off 2:40:45.240 --> 2:40:48.600 his porch, pulls out a gun, and apparently without saying anything, 2:40:48.959 --> 2:40:52.080 fires at least four shots at these three young men. 2:40:52.440 --> 2:40:54.680 Two of them are shot and they're torso. A third 2:40:54.879 --> 2:40:58.160 is shot in the lower extremities. They are all alive. Still, 2:40:58.240 --> 2:40:59.880 they're all expected to live and think one of them 2:40:59.920 --> 2:41:01.920 was more seriously injured than the others, but they're all 2:41:02.400 --> 2:41:07.000 like going to survive, thankfully. And then Eaton flees on foot. 2:41:07.720 --> 2:41:09.680 I think like the next day the police catch up 2:41:09.680 --> 2:41:11.760 with them. He used a three to eighty pistol, if 2:41:11.800 --> 2:41:15.480 that matters to you, which is a fairly small handgun, 2:41:16.400 --> 2:41:21.560 which probably explains why everybody's survived. And yeah, so that's 2:41:21.760 --> 2:41:25.720 the extent of like what physically happened on the day. Again, 2:41:25.800 --> 2:41:28.879 Eaton doesn't say anything before he starts shooting. There's no 2:41:29.040 --> 2:41:32.240 evidence that he knew these guys. They are apparently speaking 2:41:32.320 --> 2:41:35.360 in a mixture of Arabic and English as they walk by, 2:41:35.440 --> 2:41:37.360 which and also at least I think two of them 2:41:37.360 --> 2:41:43.080 were wearing like Palestinian color sort of shimogs or kefias. 2:41:43.680 --> 2:41:44.120 I don't think that. 2:41:44.240 --> 2:41:46.440 I don't know if it's like like not like the 2:41:46.480 --> 2:41:49.080 colors of the Palestinian flag, but like the color palette 2:41:49.120 --> 2:41:53.800 there is used in that specific it's white and black, yeah, scarps, yeah, yeah, 2:41:53.879 --> 2:41:59.039 yeah exactly. Eaton was a finance broker and advisor kind 2:41:59.080 --> 2:42:01.320 of part time. I don't know how much money he 2:42:01.400 --> 2:42:02.240 actually made from it. 2:42:02.760 --> 2:42:05.640 Yeah, he was like working on a farm part time. Yeah, 2:42:05.640 --> 2:42:08.400 he was employed at Edward Jones a few years ago. 2:42:08.840 --> 2:42:12.920 He's kind of yeah, he's this this libertarian finance bro. 2:42:13.720 --> 2:42:17.680 Yeah, and so yeah, people found his social pretty quickly. 2:42:18.040 --> 2:42:24.360 There's like an archived Twitter, which is really standard standard 2:42:24.480 --> 2:42:28.520 libertarian stuff. He talks about like, he complains about the 2:42:28.560 --> 2:42:32.320 Fed an awful lot. He quotes Elon Musk a number 2:42:32.320 --> 2:42:33.880 of times. He seems to be a fan of him, 2:42:33.920 --> 2:42:36.800 but he's also a huge fan of Bernie Sanders and described, yes, 2:42:37.000 --> 2:42:39.480 like the only good man in politics pretty much. 2:42:39.720 --> 2:42:39.920 Yeah. 2:42:40.040 --> 2:42:41.560 I think it's kind of like it's kind of like 2:42:41.720 --> 2:42:45.600 the Joe Rogan libertarian of like right, right, yes, very much. 2:42:45.680 --> 2:42:48.200 So you like Bernie because he's like he like curious 2:42:48.200 --> 2:42:50.440 about like the people. He's not like he's not like 2:42:50.800 --> 2:42:53.959 falling for like the big finance corporation stuf blah blah 2:42:53.959 --> 2:42:54.760 blah blah blah. 2:42:54.920 --> 2:42:56.960 Yeah, it's it's like it's this old sort of like 2:42:57.080 --> 2:42:59.720 the oh my god, what I've forgotten his name, the 2:42:59.720 --> 2:43:04.080 liberitarian guy from the two thousands and early twenty tens 2:43:05.600 --> 2:43:10.920 who were the Riddler suits. No, he was a congressman. 2:43:12.600 --> 2:43:14.320 He was like he was like one of the fashions 2:43:14.320 --> 2:43:17.280 in occupy was like these weird libertarians and it's like 2:43:17.400 --> 2:43:19.160 this seems like that's like the ideological as sentence of 2:43:19.160 --> 2:43:22.640 those people who didn't turn into like neo Confederate like 2:43:22.840 --> 2:43:24.080 yeah people. 2:43:24.240 --> 2:43:28.039 And it's in his old archived Twitter account, he describes 2:43:28.120 --> 2:43:32.320 himself like His profile describes him as radical citizen patrolling democracy, 2:43:32.760 --> 2:43:36.039 which he spells with a K, and crapitalism for oath keepers, 2:43:36.680 --> 2:43:40.520 well oath creepers. I don't know entirely what all of 2:43:40.600 --> 2:43:46.120 that means, and then hashtag wild type with the little 2:43:46.160 --> 2:43:51.520 atomic symbol, which I guess means he likes science. He 2:43:51.560 --> 2:43:54.199 describes himself as a dad and a part time farmer, 2:43:54.800 --> 2:43:59.360 a reformed yes stockbroker, and his archived account includes a 2:43:59.400 --> 2:44:03.200 link to his subs stack, which is our DKL radical. 2:44:03.959 --> 2:44:06.440 He describes it as yeah, wander wandering ramblings of a 2:44:06.480 --> 2:44:10.640 reformed broker on the ADHD ASD spectrum. He's claiming at 2:44:10.720 --> 2:44:16.160 least to have ADHD and autism. It's uh, he's deleted. 2:44:16.320 --> 2:44:18.160 By the time we got to them. Everyone got to 2:44:18.200 --> 2:44:21.320 the most of the posts on his sub stack. The 2:44:21.360 --> 2:44:23.800 only thing on there is a really extensive post where 2:44:23.800 --> 2:44:28.400 he's like talking about how how restaurants can keep dishwashers employed. 2:44:28.920 --> 2:44:31.160 He seems to have worked this one and be angry 2:44:31.160 --> 2:44:33.959 that they're not always paid fair wage commensurate to back 2:44:34.000 --> 2:44:35.720 on the Lion or in front of the Lion staff, 2:44:35.760 --> 2:44:38.920 I guess, which is like not unreasonable, but an odd 2:44:38.920 --> 2:44:40.520 thing for him to be so focused on. 2:44:42.120 --> 2:44:47.360 He has a really interesting online footprint. Yes, at least 2:44:47.680 --> 2:44:53.520 like everything like pre pandemic is like he's like this 2:44:53.720 --> 2:44:56.720 regular libertarian finance guy. Like there's not like there's nothing 2:44:56.800 --> 2:45:01.840 too concerning. He's like or he's yeah, he's like retweeting 2:45:02.240 --> 2:45:04.920 like the Libertarian Party of Tennessee saying that they like 2:45:04.959 --> 2:45:08.600 Bernie Sanders, and like he's he has like this podcast 2:45:08.640 --> 2:45:11.760 where he talks about penny Stalks, and it's like it's 2:45:11.840 --> 2:45:15.120 a lot of like you see a lots of these 2:45:15.160 --> 2:45:17.080 types of guy around and most of them are just 2:45:17.120 --> 2:45:20.840 like guys in their forties, because that's what he was, 2:45:20.879 --> 2:45:22.640 Just like a libertarian guy in his forties who lived 2:45:22.640 --> 2:45:23.359 in Vermont. 2:45:23.440 --> 2:45:27.600 So like yeah, so you know, as you kind of stated, Garrison, 2:45:27.680 --> 2:45:34.000 he's pretty normal up until he gets like COVID hits, 2:45:34.160 --> 2:45:37.160 and that seems to be what pushes him over the limit. 2:45:37.200 --> 2:45:40.560 I want to read a quote from Vice News here, 2:45:40.640 --> 2:45:43.560 who's done a lengthy breakdown of his social media presence. 2:45:44.000 --> 2:45:46.440 One post from March twenty twenty two titled thought crime. 2:45:46.480 --> 2:45:48.880 It's an anti vax screed that labels COVID nineteen as 2:45:48.879 --> 2:45:52.000 a government conspiracy. The scale and scope of this operation 2:45:52.240 --> 2:45:54.959 was next level, he wrote. He also shared other anti 2:45:55.000 --> 2:45:57.520 vax sentiments on his LinkedIn, and wrote last year that 2:45:57.560 --> 2:46:00.800 he'd started deleting or unpublishing certain posts because my ideas 2:46:00.800 --> 2:46:03.440 make some people not want to hire me. He also 2:46:03.480 --> 2:46:05.960 has an Instagram account, which is largely dedicated to sharing 2:46:05.959 --> 2:46:08.320 images from his farm. Only one post hints at any 2:46:08.320 --> 2:46:11.520 ideological or political outlook, which is a screenshot from the 2:46:11.640 --> 2:46:14.959 Urban Dictionary definition of America with a K, a word 2:46:15.040 --> 2:46:17.160 used to describe the worst sense of the United States, 2:46:17.240 --> 2:46:20.920 i e. Imperialism, corruption, and the global exportation of American culture. 2:46:21.280 --> 2:46:23.440 His Instagram links to another blog, which has the same 2:46:23.520 --> 2:46:26.280 name as his substack and contains rambling podcasts about the 2:46:26.320 --> 2:46:30.160 financial system. He's uploaded documentation of his various qualifications over 2:46:30.200 --> 2:46:32.200 the years. One document indicates that he was a Boy 2:46:32.240 --> 2:46:35.879 Scout leader between at least twenty seventeen and twenty twenty one. 2:46:36.080 --> 2:46:38.240 Don't worry everyone, the boy Scouts are not letting this 2:46:38.280 --> 2:46:39.960 guy continue to be an adult leader. 2:46:41.600 --> 2:46:46.920 Yeah, it's the homepage of his website just reads together 2:46:47.240 --> 2:46:51.119 no King. And there's a lot of stuff that looks 2:46:51.160 --> 2:46:54.920 like it's been deleted, a lot of weird financial advice 2:46:55.840 --> 2:47:00.520 under the name radical Citizen spelled all stupid. But you 2:47:00.760 --> 2:47:03.600 like I I've I found his YouTube pretty quick. I 2:47:03.600 --> 2:47:05.880 found his LinkedIn pretty quick. There's a lot of like 2:47:06.120 --> 2:47:08.440 vaccine's his His YouTube starts with a lot of like 2:47:08.520 --> 2:47:12.480 vaccine hesitancy stuff. Yeah, and then on his LinkedIn he 2:47:12.520 --> 2:47:16.000 moves into like full full like weird like COVID conspiracies, 2:47:16.120 --> 2:47:21.160 vaccine denial, vaccine conspiracy theories. And I will say, I've 2:47:21.240 --> 2:47:25.280 never seen a shooter post like this on LinkedIn before. 2:47:25.600 --> 2:47:29.480 Yeah, that's interesting, really unique. It's it's a really unique thing. 2:47:29.520 --> 2:47:31.480 Like so you'll find stuff like this on like Reddit, 2:47:31.560 --> 2:47:34.000 you'll find stuff like this on Twitter, but having having 2:47:34.040 --> 2:47:38.080 a shooter share this types of conspiratorial content on LinkedIn 2:47:38.200 --> 2:47:40.560 and then talk about how he has to delete some 2:47:40.640 --> 2:47:43.680 because he's not getting hired because LinkedIn's a place to 2:47:43.800 --> 2:47:46.119 help you get hired Like that's like it's it's it's 2:47:46.120 --> 2:47:49.320 a really weird platform. Yes, this could just be his 2:47:49.400 --> 2:47:52.720 like libertarianness showing and like they they use they use 2:47:52.800 --> 2:47:55.920 LinkedIn because it's like for like business and finance. But 2:47:56.040 --> 2:47:58.640 it is certainly weird, like the way he was using 2:47:58.680 --> 2:48:04.640 it is unlike most most like either like like cod COVID, 2:48:04.680 --> 2:48:08.960 conspiracy shooters, vaccine shooters or whatever his motivation was for this, 2:48:09.040 --> 2:48:13.879 for targeting three Palestinian people. It's it's certainly certainly a 2:48:14.080 --> 2:48:16.160 unique facet of this incident. 2:48:16.800 --> 2:48:21.119 Yeah, yeah, so I don't know. I mean, in some 2:48:21.200 --> 2:48:25.720 ways this is a pretty standard case, and that like 2:48:25.800 --> 2:48:29.200 not the specific things that this guy is starting point, 2:48:29.240 --> 2:48:31.440 but just the fact that this is a guy who's 2:48:31.480 --> 2:48:34.959 clearly open to some level of right wing politics and 2:48:35.000 --> 2:48:38.600 thought influencers. And it seems as if COVID nineteen drove 2:48:38.720 --> 2:48:40.879 him off a wall ideologically. 2:48:41.800 --> 2:48:45.800 Yeah, And I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if this 2:48:45.879 --> 2:48:49.400 winds up being a very you know, if we wind 2:48:49.480 --> 2:48:52.640 up finding out that a specific motivation for this santi 2:48:52.680 --> 2:48:58.080 Palsonian racism, because yeah, well yeah we know it also 2:48:58.400 --> 2:48:59.680 probably is. 2:49:00.080 --> 2:49:03.440 But his mom describes him as a Christian who takes 2:49:03.440 --> 2:49:06.840 his spirituality very seriously. She said that he thought the 2:49:06.879 --> 2:49:09.000 whole state of the world was kind of like a 2:49:09.040 --> 2:49:12.119 big mess right now, like everything everything spiritually is kind 2:49:12.120 --> 2:49:15.520 of falling apart, is what his mom said. Because he 2:49:15.520 --> 2:49:18.280 he was he was at Thanksgiving dinner with his family 2:49:18.520 --> 2:49:22.080 like two nights before this happened. They said he seemed 2:49:22.120 --> 2:49:26.400 to act be acting like like his usual self. Not 2:49:26.400 --> 2:49:28.800 not saying like, you know, not saying that he was 2:49:28.840 --> 2:49:30.560 acting good, but like he was acting. 2:49:30.440 --> 2:49:31.280 Normal for him. 2:49:32.160 --> 2:49:36.400 Yeah, but no, he certainly had some some degree of 2:49:36.440 --> 2:49:41.320 religious affiliation. He talked about using his religious status as 2:49:41.480 --> 2:49:47.640 to get like vaccine exemptions for his kids. So there's 2:49:47.920 --> 2:49:50.440 stuff stuff like that that that that that does tie 2:49:50.480 --> 2:49:55.080 to his religious background, which which could certainly contribute to 2:49:55.080 --> 2:49:57.400 to anti palestining and violence. 2:49:57.959 --> 2:50:01.240 Yeah, and I I don't know, if I had to 2:50:01.320 --> 2:50:06.080 assume kind of how this went down without more evidence, 2:50:06.240 --> 2:50:10.920 my guess would be he was having a bad day probably, 2:50:10.959 --> 2:50:14.160 you know that kind of after the holiday depression. That's 2:50:14.160 --> 2:50:17.120 not uncommon. He's like listening to or reading some sort 2:50:17.160 --> 2:50:20.879 of listening to some sort of weird conspiracy podcast, or 2:50:20.879 --> 2:50:24.520 he's just falling down another rabbit hole online He gets 2:50:24.680 --> 2:50:27.520 angrier and angrier, and he hears some people talking in 2:50:27.560 --> 2:50:31.480 Arabic outside, looks out his window sees a Palestinian Kefia 2:50:31.520 --> 2:50:34.560 and decides, I'm going to just start shooting. I don't 2:50:34.600 --> 2:50:37.000 actually know, like, I don't know what else it could be. 2:50:37.080 --> 2:50:40.320 He can't have These people were not like regular walkers 2:50:40.360 --> 2:50:42.280 in his neighborhoods, so this can't have been like he 2:50:42.320 --> 2:50:45.200 wasn't laying in wait for them. This seems like from 2:50:45.240 --> 2:50:46.400 you know, it must have been like a spur of 2:50:46.440 --> 2:50:47.440 the moment thing, right. 2:50:48.280 --> 2:50:50.120 He waited for the ATF to come to his door, 2:50:50.160 --> 2:50:52.640 he said. He said, like I've been expecting you or 2:50:53.040 --> 2:50:54.640 I've been waiting for you or something, and he said, 2:50:54.920 --> 2:50:57.440 I don't want to say anything without a lawyers like 2:50:57.440 --> 2:51:01.160 he he had like, you know, like the libertarian script 2:51:01.200 --> 2:51:03.040 of like here's what you say if the police are 2:51:03.040 --> 2:51:03.720 coming to arrest you. 2:51:03.840 --> 2:51:05.320 Is like, yeah, he didn't. 2:51:05.760 --> 2:51:07.440 He didn't like kill himself at the end of this 2:51:07.480 --> 2:51:09.120 act of violence that a lot of other shooters do. 2:51:09.200 --> 2:51:12.039 He was very very like put together weirdly. 2:51:12.240 --> 2:51:15.000 And he's he's lawyered up. I guess we'll learn more, but. 2:51:15.879 --> 2:51:18.280 Yeah, no, it's it's it's certainly interesting. I mean, I've 2:51:18.640 --> 2:51:21.440 scrolling through the past two years of LinkedIn posts where 2:51:21.440 --> 2:51:24.080 he posted a lot on like LinkedIn's like social platform, 2:51:24.440 --> 2:51:28.080 and it's a big mix of like big mix of 2:51:28.120 --> 2:51:32.039 like financial conspiracy theories and COVID conspiracy theories and vaccine 2:51:32.040 --> 2:51:35.440 conspiracy theories. I can certainly see how the way the way, 2:51:36.000 --> 2:51:39.800 like libertarians in general the past three years, past, like 2:51:39.920 --> 2:51:43.080 five years, six years, maybe even since, like the Tea 2:51:43.120 --> 2:51:47.400 Party realistically have just have been getting increasingly aligned with 2:51:47.520 --> 2:51:52.440 like other aspects of the far right where uh, it 2:51:52.720 --> 2:51:59.480 contributes to like transphobia, or it contributes to racism, xenophobia, homophobia. Yeah, 2:51:59.560 --> 2:52:02.879 like that that that has big that that Venn diagram 2:52:02.920 --> 2:52:04.640 is slowly becoming more of a circle. And I can 2:52:04.680 --> 2:52:07.120 certainly see if this guy, this guy obviously was listening 2:52:07.120 --> 2:52:09.320 to podcasts, if he was making he was making a 2:52:09.360 --> 2:52:12.160 financial podcast at some point, yeah, he Like, I can 2:52:12.200 --> 2:52:16.800 totally see if if you're listening to libertarian podcasts, you 2:52:16.920 --> 2:52:19.879 slowly getting all of these other kind of beliefs that 2:52:19.959 --> 2:52:23.080 have been seeping in to almost the entirety of the 2:52:23.080 --> 2:52:27.119 libertarian political project. If you see, like a few years ago, 2:52:27.200 --> 2:52:31.120 he was retweeting posts from like the libertarian parties of 2:52:31.160 --> 2:52:34.279 these various states, and now many of those accounts. 2:52:33.879 --> 2:52:35.960 Are just run by Nazis, Like, yeah, it is. 2:52:36.000 --> 2:52:39.240 It is, like, yeah, watching how the posting trends of 2:52:39.400 --> 2:52:43.000 like official libertarian party affiliated accounts have changed the past 2:52:43.040 --> 2:52:45.560 few years, specifically the New Hampshire account. 2:52:46.200 --> 2:52:48.760 Yeah, oh my god, quite is quite something. 2:52:49.280 --> 2:52:51.279 Yeah, and it's it's not always what you'd think because 2:52:51.320 --> 2:52:57.360 the the the Louisiana Libertarian Party is like super chill, reasonable, 2:52:57.440 --> 2:53:01.400 anti racist, you know, guy, whereas yeah, the New Hampshire 2:53:01.400 --> 2:53:06.760 Libertarian Party, dude is like just a straight up Nazi. Yeah, interesting, interesting, 2:53:07.560 --> 2:53:09.840 good stuff. Should we do our second AD break? Did 2:53:09.840 --> 2:53:10.440 we already do that? 2:53:10.640 --> 2:53:12.240 Did we already do it? Anyway? 2:53:12.360 --> 2:53:14.480 Daniel? If we didn't do a second ad break, here's 2:53:14.520 --> 2:53:19.480 our second ad break. Ah, we're back after either our 2:53:19.520 --> 2:53:22.080 second AD break or that will be edited out because 2:53:22.520 --> 2:53:25.640 we already did too. We forgot which Daniel will figure 2:53:25.680 --> 2:53:28.720 it out, and you the listener will never know if 2:53:28.720 --> 2:53:31.400 I fucked up. Dani'll keep it in if I fuck up. 2:53:31.680 --> 2:53:36.880 Yeah, And speaking of speaking of stuff that's fucked up, yeah, yeah. 2:53:36.920 --> 2:53:39.600 So the last thing I want to talk about is 2:53:39.680 --> 2:53:43.600 this is this is an older This is from like October, right, Yeah, 2:53:43.600 --> 2:53:46.440 this is from October fourteenth, and I think it's specifically 2:53:46.480 --> 2:53:49.480 this is this is seven days after the sort of 2:53:49.520 --> 2:53:52.560 Amos attack that started all of the sort of stuff 2:53:52.560 --> 2:53:57.520 that's been happening in palestein Yeah, so in Plainfield, which 2:53:57.600 --> 2:54:01.840 is this kind of Yeah, it's like a it's. 2:54:01.720 --> 2:54:03.400 A really far suburb of Chicago. 2:54:03.920 --> 2:54:06.119 Yeah, it's it's in these things where it's like it's 2:54:06.120 --> 2:54:08.680 in the kind of I don't know, almost a borderline 2:54:08.760 --> 2:54:11.680 of is it a suburb like it is, it's a 2:54:11.720 --> 2:54:16.160 place that sucks ass Yeah, and no offense to anyone 2:54:16.520 --> 2:54:18.840 living there with yeah, no, like there are good people there, 2:54:18.840 --> 2:54:22.840 but some of them I assume are good people. Yeah. 2:54:23.000 --> 2:54:26.320 So on on the fourteenth, a seventy one year old 2:54:26.360 --> 2:54:32.039 man named Joseph Kuspa who was the landlord of a 2:54:32.080 --> 2:54:36.280 Palestinian woman and her son and you know, okay, so 2:54:36.480 --> 2:54:39.320 this story, this story just sucks. They had actually so 2:54:39.480 --> 2:54:43.039 these this family and their landlord had been like pretty 2:54:43.040 --> 2:54:47.720 close friends. Like the family had considered him like like 2:54:47.760 --> 2:54:51.520 a like they considered him like a grandfather. And this 2:54:51.640 --> 2:54:54.120 guy comes through the door and the six year old 2:54:54.200 --> 2:54:57.039 kid runs up to go hug him, and he stabs 2:54:57.120 --> 2:54:59.800 the kid twenty six times and kills him, nearly kills 2:54:59.800 --> 2:55:07.240 his mom. He's screaming like the entire time about like, Yeah, 2:55:07.240 --> 2:55:10.400 he's screaming, You Muslims have to die. You're killing our 2:55:10.480 --> 2:55:13.720 kids in Israel. You Palestinians don't deserve to live. And 2:55:14.400 --> 2:55:17.800 this is a I think this is a kind of 2:55:18.720 --> 2:55:20.840 a kind of different kind of shoot of well not 2:55:20.879 --> 2:55:22.920 sually a different kind of like killing than the ones 2:55:22.959 --> 2:55:24.840 we've been talking about, because this is a very sort 2:55:24.840 --> 2:55:27.400 of like wake of two thousand and one killing where 2:55:27.440 --> 2:55:31.119 you have this enormous, enormous spike in Islamophobia, very specifically here, 2:55:31.200 --> 2:55:35.520 you have this incredible spike in in anti Palastinian racism, 2:55:35.560 --> 2:55:38.280 and you have this this period like especially in the 2:55:38.280 --> 2:55:39.920 week I mean, and this is still happening to this day, 2:55:39.959 --> 2:55:42.680 but in like the week after, in the week after 2:55:42.720 --> 2:55:47.800 this all started, you could say fucking anything. You could say. 2:55:48.000 --> 2:55:50.240 You could you could like you could talk about fucking 2:55:50.240 --> 2:55:53.040 turning the Gaza strip into glass, like you could talk 2:55:53.080 --> 2:55:55.480 about fucking dropping nukes, you could talk about killing every 2:55:55.480 --> 2:55:57.520 single Palestinian on earth. And it was and no one 2:55:57.520 --> 2:56:00.280 fucking said anything, Right, all these fucking people. All of 2:56:00.280 --> 2:56:02.640 these fucking all these fucking journalists said nothing all like 2:56:02.680 --> 2:56:05.560 the president, Like the president only starts talking about his 2:56:05.640 --> 2:56:09.080 homophobia after this fucking kid gets stabbed the death and 2:56:09.360 --> 2:56:11.560 you know, and this guy is listening to right wing 2:56:11.600 --> 2:56:13.120 talk radio, which is why you know, this is like 2:56:13.200 --> 2:56:15.000 this is a this is an older like this, this 2:56:15.080 --> 2:56:17.320 is a this is a s pecific kind of killing 2:56:17.320 --> 2:56:20.199 that like I think is very very similar to the 2:56:20.200 --> 2:56:22.320 the enormous number of Muslims who were killed and I 2:56:22.360 --> 2:56:25.720 will seek people too, because these people are just really racist. Yeah, 2:56:25.720 --> 2:56:27.959 and Pealstinian people who are just killed right after nine 2:56:27.959 --> 2:56:31.520 to eleven, because there's just this wave of the US 2:56:31.959 --> 2:56:34.520 that gets into one of these sort of murder frenzies, 2:56:35.520 --> 2:56:37.720 like one of these sort of racist frenzies. And this 2:56:37.840 --> 2:56:42.600 kid gets stabbed to death and yeah, this guy, you know, 2:56:42.640 --> 2:56:45.400 and I mean and like I think, I think the 2:56:45.440 --> 2:56:48.000 think about this case right like this is you know, 2:56:48.240 --> 2:56:51.000 this is a radicalization in terms like in terms of 2:56:51.040 --> 2:56:53.280 like going from going from literally like this kid is 2:56:53.360 --> 2:56:56.040 running up to hug him because like he had built 2:56:56.040 --> 2:57:00.200 like a treehouse for the family before this, right, like 2:56:59.720 --> 2:57:02.280 the like and over the course of like seven days. 2:57:02.320 --> 2:57:05.360 This guy goes from that to like we need to 2:57:05.400 --> 2:57:07.200 kill all Muslims and we need to like stab them 2:57:07.240 --> 2:57:12.320 to death, right, Like it's it's horrible and and this 2:57:12.360 --> 2:57:15.840 is you know, like this kind of stuff just keeps happening, 2:57:17.000 --> 2:57:20.440 and you know, like the only time, the only the 2:57:20.520 --> 2:57:25.560 media literally only covers this stuff, like in terms of like, oh, 2:57:25.600 --> 2:57:28.520 it's costing a Democrats support and it's like, you guys, 2:57:29.000 --> 2:57:31.480 just I don't know the extense of which the media 2:57:31.680 --> 2:57:36.520 has been utterly and completely complicit in anti Palasinian racism 2:57:36.640 --> 2:57:41.280 has been appalling, and you know it's killed people now, yeah, 2:57:41.320 --> 2:57:43.720 and there will there will be no reckoning with this 2:57:43.959 --> 2:57:46.440 because the US media does this shit all the time 2:57:46.480 --> 2:57:47.320 and no one cares. 2:57:48.040 --> 2:57:51.920 And yeah, by by a wide margin. The most disturbing 2:57:51.959 --> 2:57:54.879 thing about this is just and I think what separates 2:57:54.879 --> 2:57:56.959 this from the two thousand and one stuff because this, 2:57:56.959 --> 2:57:58.879 this version of this attack in two thousand and one 2:57:59.320 --> 2:58:02.600 would have just been some racist stranger who saw, you know, 2:58:02.680 --> 2:58:05.640 a Muslim person or just a person he assumed look 2:58:05.720 --> 2:58:08.039 like they were Muslim and attacked but did not have 2:58:08.080 --> 2:58:10.680 a relationship with them. This guy is super close to 2:58:10.720 --> 2:58:13.640 this kid, right, This is like an example of how 2:58:13.720 --> 2:58:19.560 fairly integrated this community was. And it's the again an 2:58:19.600 --> 2:58:21.800 example kind of what we're seeing in most of these 2:58:21.840 --> 2:58:23.920 other attacks we've talked about, say of that nazi is 2:58:24.000 --> 2:58:27.320 like these people who are a lot more normal. And 2:58:27.360 --> 2:58:30.520 then I'm going to guess if we when we find 2:58:30.520 --> 2:58:33.840 out more about the dude who stabbed that kid, a 2:58:33.879 --> 2:58:38.080 lot of his drift happened after COVID, right. You know, 2:58:38.280 --> 2:58:41.720 it's a product of this right wing media ecosystem that 2:58:41.800 --> 2:58:45.320 again exists purely to do this sort of thing, but 2:58:45.440 --> 2:58:49.400 it's also a product of COVID. Right, it's a product 2:58:49.440 --> 2:58:53.000 of this lockdown that just fucking shattered so many people. 2:58:53.720 --> 2:58:55.520 It's the one other thing I will mention because it 2:58:55.600 --> 2:58:58.959 is relevant because the trial is starting. Is another extremely 2:58:59.000 --> 2:59:00.640 targeted attack with the. 2:59:00.600 --> 2:59:02.440 Murder of Brianna Jai. 2:59:02.840 --> 2:59:07.880 Yeah, the perpetrators were very familiar. They were they were 2:59:08.200 --> 2:59:12.760 interested in killing her specifically because Brianna was trans that. 2:59:13.080 --> 2:59:14.520 I don't I don't know if we talked about this 2:59:14.760 --> 2:59:16.520 on the show that I don't think we did. 2:59:16.560 --> 2:59:17.959 I don't think it happened. 2:59:18.120 --> 2:59:21.080 Yeah, yeah no, But with with with the trial happening, 2:59:21.080 --> 2:59:24.000 we're we've gotten text exchanges between the two people who 2:59:24.040 --> 2:59:30.400 were involved in the killing, and it's it's very very 2:59:30.520 --> 2:59:33.760 very telling the way they were talking about Brianna like 2:59:33.879 --> 2:59:38.680 as this as this like object and very very very 2:59:38.680 --> 2:59:43.240 specifically like like almost like stalking and gaining familiar with her, 2:59:43.560 --> 2:59:46.360 specifically to kill her out of like fascination. 2:59:47.240 --> 2:59:48.920 Oh wait, So so for people who don't know what 2:59:48.920 --> 2:59:53.959 this is, Brianna was I think she was fifty sixteen sixteen, 2:59:54.040 --> 2:59:56.480 sixteen year old trans girl in the UK who was 2:59:56.520 --> 3:00:01.039 stabbed to death by two other kids. And yeah, so 3:00:01.080 --> 3:00:05.120 the trial's like happening right now and it's it's really 3:00:05.680 --> 3:00:09.480 really fucking sucks. Yeah she was, she was killed earlier 3:00:09.480 --> 3:00:16.600 this year. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, if you, if you, 3:00:16.640 --> 3:00:22.279 if you want to understand what transphobes think about trans people, 3:00:22.879 --> 3:00:26.120 like those texts are as clean as an example that 3:00:26.160 --> 3:00:29.959 you're going to get about how like all of the 3:00:29.959 --> 3:00:32.160 fucking right wing media people and all of the sort 3:00:32.160 --> 3:00:34.640 of like you know, like all of the most sort 3:00:34.680 --> 3:00:41.680 of like absolutely like committed transphobes think about transfer, But 3:00:41.720 --> 3:00:44.879 how they talk about us like in in closed like 3:00:44.879 --> 3:00:46.840 like behind closed doors where they think you will never 3:00:46.879 --> 3:00:48.520 see it. And this this is just this is just 3:00:48.520 --> 3:00:50.720 how they talk about us, and this is what happens 3:00:50.800 --> 3:00:56.160 is people like people fucking weirder trans people and yeah. 3:00:57.280 --> 3:01:02.800 Yeah, well then yep, all right, well folks, this has 3:01:02.879 --> 3:01:08.320 been uh it could happen here? A podcast about terrorism? 3:01:08.720 --> 3:01:12.120 Goodbye? Do we do? We want to try to end 3:01:12.160 --> 3:01:18.760 in SETI literally any other way? I'm not sure you know. 3:01:19.959 --> 3:01:21.480 No, Garrison, We're not. 3:01:21.720 --> 3:01:35.640 That's the end of the podcast. Goodbye. 3:01:39.040 --> 3:01:41.400 Welcome to the could happen Here? A podcast with the 3:01:41.440 --> 3:01:43.879 It is Henry Kissinger, and the happening here is that 3:01:43.920 --> 3:01:45.959 he's dead as a door nail. I'm your host via 3:01:46.040 --> 3:01:49.360 log with me on this joyous day after Kissinger's dead. 3:01:49.600 --> 3:01:52.760 Is Garrison Davis and James Stout. Welcome to the show. 3:01:53.560 --> 3:01:55.760 Who Hello, very excited. 3:01:55.920 --> 3:01:58.400 Had had a fun night in the group chat last night. 3:01:58.800 --> 3:02:02.080 I did send over the Hordy Hendrika Singer copy pasta 3:02:02.400 --> 3:02:05.560 without reading it to two of the group chat, and 3:02:05.959 --> 3:02:08.039 I feel like that was that was a good call. 3:02:08.480 --> 3:02:12.440 Fully at the exit. Within within thirty seconds of you 3:02:12.560 --> 3:02:14.880 sending that, I got the same I got the same 3:02:14.920 --> 3:02:18.440 message in another group chat, and it was it. 3:02:18.440 --> 3:02:21.080 Was spreading around pretty quick. I wanted to jump on it. 3:02:21.200 --> 3:02:23.560 Soon before before other people were going to share it. 3:02:23.640 --> 3:02:26.440 So so yeah, that is that is, that is my duty. 3:02:26.520 --> 3:02:30.000 I mean it's it's certainly upsetting he lives till one hundred, 3:02:30.040 --> 3:02:32.240 but we will celebrate his death nevertheless. 3:02:32.879 --> 3:02:36.160 Yes, it would be nice if he died sooner. 3:02:36.840 --> 3:02:38.560 Yeah, yeah, it was nice. Well, we don't we don't 3:02:38.560 --> 3:02:40.680 know how he died. He could he could have died horribly. 3:02:40.720 --> 3:02:44.760 We actually don't know. Really, Yeah, he died anything. 3:02:45.120 --> 3:02:49.920 In his home in Connecticut, surrounded by his hopefully according 3:02:49.959 --> 3:02:50.920 to the actual statement. 3:02:51.720 --> 3:02:51.959 Yeah. 3:02:52.040 --> 3:02:54.039 Well, look, he he lived a little longer and died 3:02:54.040 --> 3:02:55.480 a lot more pleasantly than a lot of the people 3:02:55.600 --> 3:02:57.040 he was life he ended, which is sad. 3:02:57.560 --> 3:02:57.879 It is. 3:02:57.920 --> 3:03:01.680 It is sad, But it's also funny. He he died 3:03:01.760 --> 3:03:03.600 knowing he's probably one of the most hated men in 3:03:03.640 --> 3:03:04.000 the world. 3:03:06.160 --> 3:03:09.200 Pretty funny parties in the fucking street, like there was 3:03:09.320 --> 3:03:12.440 so there was there was a giant pro Palestine protest 3:03:12.480 --> 3:03:16.920 in Chicago last night and there's videos of them finding 3:03:16.959 --> 3:03:19.800 out live while they're in the streets that kissing, just dying, 3:03:19.800 --> 3:03:23.800 and this giant cheer goes up. People having a great time. 3:03:25.160 --> 3:03:26.840 Yeah, I was texting my friends who were down at 3:03:26.879 --> 3:03:30.320 the border. Uh, Camery Kissinger is dead. Spread the word 3:03:31.920 --> 3:03:34.920 among the people of the nations that he destroyed. 3:03:35.160 --> 3:03:36.520 Pretty good, pretty good stuff. 3:03:36.959 --> 3:03:39.760 I mean it's we we we all, we all had 3:03:39.800 --> 3:03:41.800 a fun time last night, as I'm sure many many 3:03:41.840 --> 3:03:47.680 of you listeners did. But slowly some organizations started to 3:03:47.720 --> 3:03:50.000 trickle out very embarrassing statements. 3:03:50.200 --> 3:03:50.280 Uh. 3:03:51.040 --> 3:03:52.680 The first one I saw was from the A d 3:03:52.920 --> 3:03:57.240 L who had a quite quite the quite quite the 3:03:57.280 --> 3:04:00.400 statement I'm gonna I want to find the I want 3:04:00.400 --> 3:04:02.840 to find it actually on on x, the new hot 3:04:02.879 --> 3:04:08.480 social media app, because it's because because the community note 3:04:08.480 --> 3:04:10.080 on it is just magnificent. 3:04:10.480 --> 3:04:10.560 Ye. 3:04:11.840 --> 3:04:16.119 Really really gives you a good look at the mind 3:04:16.160 --> 3:04:18.880 of Kissinger, and it's fun to laugh at the people 3:04:18.879 --> 3:04:22.240 who are like propping him up as some like great 3:04:22.360 --> 3:04:23.200 Jewish statesman. 3:04:23.280 --> 3:04:23.920 So yeah. 3:04:23.959 --> 3:04:28.840 Henry Kissinger was a towering intellect, diplomat and practitioner who, 3:04:29.120 --> 3:04:32.840 not without controversy, helped shape American foreign policy with a 3:04:32.959 --> 3:04:36.720 lasting impact worldwide. A refugee from Nazi Germany and the 3:04:36.760 --> 3:04:40.360 first Jewish Secretary of State, he was unapologetic about his 3:04:40.480 --> 3:04:44.160 heritage and his embrace of the importance of American global 3:04:44.240 --> 3:04:48.880 power and democratic values, which I like that they call 3:04:48.959 --> 3:04:52.960 him a practitioner. Just a funny thing to say. 3:04:53.840 --> 3:04:57.920 Yeah, but there are a number of in that post. 3:04:58.000 --> 3:05:03.119 Oh, absolutely problem. The funniest is that during a meeting 3:05:03.360 --> 3:05:07.480 of the Washington Special Actions Group, Kissinger said, quote, if 3:05:07.560 --> 3:05:09.800 it were not for the accident of my birth, I 3:05:09.840 --> 3:05:13.680 would be anti Semitic. Any people who have been persecuted 3:05:13.680 --> 3:05:16.400 for two thousand years must be doing something wrong. 3:05:18.840 --> 3:05:23.080 Yeah, here's here's here's another one. That one's fun It's 3:05:23.080 --> 3:05:25.680 another one. The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union 3:05:25.720 --> 3:05:28.360 is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if 3:05:28.400 --> 3:05:30.960 they put Jews in gas chambers in the Soviet Union, 3:05:31.040 --> 3:05:34.800 it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern. 3:05:35.760 --> 3:05:40.199 And that was a realism, amazing stuff like it's it's 3:05:40.320 --> 3:05:42.520 it has. It has certainly been wild to watch any 3:05:42.800 --> 3:05:45.520 any shred of credibility that the ADL has had just 3:05:45.640 --> 3:05:48.080 absolutely go down the drain in the past two months 3:05:48.080 --> 3:05:51.880 by their own volition, just ruining decades of like of 3:05:52.080 --> 3:05:56.879 of research into anti Semitic extremism, by just tarnishing every 3:05:56.879 --> 3:06:00.160 single piece of research they've done, by how they've how 3:06:00.160 --> 3:06:01.720 they've been behaving the past two months. 3:06:01.800 --> 3:06:05.880 Yeah, I mean they past three or four years, they've 3:06:06.000 --> 3:06:07.440 really been over like. 3:06:09.360 --> 3:06:12.119 To the bottom there. They're like they're like fully going 3:06:12.160 --> 3:06:15.800 back to their like selling information to a partid South 3:06:15.840 --> 3:06:21.480 Africa days. Yeah, so praising pim praising. 3:06:22.680 --> 3:06:25.320 Henry Kissinger is someone who admitted that he would be 3:06:25.360 --> 3:06:27.560 anti Semitic if he wasn't born Jewish. 3:06:27.560 --> 3:06:30.240 It was just like, what the fuck are you doing? Anyway? 3:06:30.480 --> 3:06:32.440 That was that was one of the first one of 3:06:32.520 --> 3:06:36.440 the first organizations to come out in in memoriam of 3:06:36.680 --> 3:06:42.280 mister Kissinger after after his his devastating passing last night. 3:06:42.640 --> 3:06:45.640 Sorry, I've I made a post about this ADL post 3:06:45.959 --> 3:06:47.960 and I'm just scoping the replies because there are a 3:06:48.000 --> 3:06:51.240 lot of normal people on on x dot com these days. 3:06:52.600 --> 3:06:55.560 Someone that there's a group which appears to exist to 3:06:55.800 --> 3:06:59.160 lobby for the ADL to lose its nonprofit status, and 3:06:59.200 --> 3:07:00.760 I'm just going to say that these are the people 3:07:00.800 --> 3:07:03.520 that a d L should be focusing their because this 3:07:03.720 --> 3:07:07.200 is this is the old school anti Semitism. That is 3:07:07.200 --> 3:07:10.520 a giant fucking problem and we all need to reject. Like, 3:07:10.959 --> 3:07:13.520 there is some hateful shit on x dot com and 3:07:13.560 --> 3:07:15.240 sadly it's in my replies. 3:07:15.240 --> 3:07:17.880 Yeah, there is there, there's plenty to go around, and 3:07:18.320 --> 3:07:22.640 the fact that they feel the need to defend water Kissinger. 3:07:23.200 --> 3:07:25.320 This guy's running for governor of Missouri. 3:07:25.600 --> 3:07:27.880 So yeah, just as a podcast, I think we can 3:07:27.879 --> 3:07:30.720 safely say, don't vote for Darryl McClanahan. 3:07:31.160 --> 3:07:32.039 Klan is in his. 3:07:32.080 --> 3:07:37.080 Name, this is our this is this is the here's 3:07:37.120 --> 3:07:40.840 first anti endorsement for the twenty twenty four election season. 3:07:41.879 --> 3:07:45.959 Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna say don't don't vote for 3:07:46.000 --> 3:07:46.440 this guy. 3:07:47.640 --> 3:07:51.480 So so true. Well, God, I'm glad. I'm glad we 3:07:51.480 --> 3:07:55.360 could all bond over over over that, as I bonded 3:07:55.400 --> 3:07:59.160 over the many, many funny, funny memes in the meme 3:07:59.240 --> 3:08:03.480 chats that I'm in rocketing on all scillas Twitter has 3:08:03.520 --> 3:08:05.800 been preparing for this night for years. We have been training, 3:08:06.120 --> 3:08:08.680 We've been training for so long. People have stayed on 3:08:08.840 --> 3:08:13.400 throughout Elon's catastrophe, just just for this night, and now 3:08:13.440 --> 3:08:17.199 are finally free. They could, yeah, finally be released into 3:08:17.200 --> 3:08:18.279 the pasture. 3:08:19.320 --> 3:08:19.800 Go live on. 3:08:20.440 --> 3:08:25.280 I'm surprised we didn't crash Twitter with yeah, hopefully his 3:08:25.400 --> 3:08:27.400 last words, well, I wonder what they'll post about me. 3:08:28.400 --> 3:08:30.560 Yeah, I'm sure he was thinking about posting when he 3:08:30.640 --> 3:08:31.160 was going out. 3:08:31.200 --> 3:08:34.240 That makes sense. He would have been a post hoping. 3:08:34.360 --> 3:08:37.360 It was like, oh no, it burns, Oh god, yes, 3:08:40.680 --> 3:08:43.320 Anthony bore Day with brass knuckles at the gates of Hell. 3:08:45.959 --> 3:08:51.480 Yeah yeah, So okay, all right, so what are we 3:08:51.480 --> 3:08:53.120 doing for the rest of this episode? So okay, If 3:08:53.120 --> 3:08:55.560 if you want to do an episode that is the 3:08:55.720 --> 3:08:59.120 entire history of the stuff Kissinger did. Robert did a 3:08:59.280 --> 3:09:01.640 six part Behind the Bastard episode on it. You can 3:09:01.680 --> 3:09:05.560 spend like twelve hours of your life doing learning. 3:09:05.280 --> 3:09:10.280 About having the worst time. Yeah, yeah, I always of 3:09:10.320 --> 3:09:13.199 a self help book. Is a self harm book audiobook 3:09:13.200 --> 3:09:14.080 that Rob has made for. 3:09:14.040 --> 3:09:17.160 You, Yes, but with three funny people giving commentaries. 3:09:17.240 --> 3:09:23.080 Yes, it's very funny. You should. Yeah. However, comma, so 3:09:23.320 --> 3:09:25.480 we have been talking about how I mean people are 3:09:25.560 --> 3:09:29.160 like people are partying in the streets in Cambodia, like there. 3:09:29.480 --> 3:09:31.879 Kissinger's death has been a source of celebration for almost 3:09:31.920 --> 3:09:35.040 everyone on Earth, but that is not what this episode 3:09:35.080 --> 3:09:39.360 is about. This episode is about the one country on 3:09:39.400 --> 3:09:44.800 Earth that isn't celebrating. That country is China and on 3:09:44.920 --> 3:09:47.720 the country. Not only is China not celebrating the death 3:09:47.760 --> 3:09:52.160 of Henry Kissinger China is quite possibly the most popular 3:09:52.160 --> 3:09:55.080 American in the history of China to this day. Like 3:09:55.240 --> 3:09:59.039 right now, if you went and pulled like the favorability 3:09:59.120 --> 3:10:02.520 rating of like every famous American, you can think of 3:10:02.840 --> 3:10:05.240 the person what the highest rating is almost certainly going 3:10:05.240 --> 3:10:08.320 to be Henry Kissinger. And you know, I mean, and 3:10:08.360 --> 3:10:09.720 this is this is and this is not just a 3:10:09.800 --> 3:10:12.200 sort of like a popular thing, although again he is 3:10:12.320 --> 3:10:15.600 enormously popular among ordinary Chinese people. This is a thing 3:10:15.680 --> 3:10:19.320 that goes from the state down. Xi Jinping, he's actually 3:10:19.400 --> 3:10:21.760 weirdly one of the last world leaders to talk to Kissinger. 3:10:22.120 --> 3:10:26.840 So Kissinger went to visit China in July, and him 3:10:26.920 --> 3:10:30.440 and Chijinping have this like great heartfelt reunion. They have 3:10:30.480 --> 3:10:34.880 a great time. Xijinping says quote. The Chinese people never 3:10:34.920 --> 3:10:38.199 forget their old friends, and Sino US relations will always 3:10:38.240 --> 3:10:41.640 be linked with the name of Henry Kissinger. In the 3:10:41.640 --> 3:10:45.600 wake of Kissinger's death, the Chinese government said, from Reuter's quote, 3:10:46.360 --> 3:10:50.840 Kissinger made historic contributions to the normalization of China US relations, 3:10:51.320 --> 3:10:54.120 and Chinese people will forever remember him for his quote 3:10:54.160 --> 3:10:59.280 sincere devotion and important contributions, Wang added, the Chinese Premier 3:10:59.480 --> 3:11:02.480 and the four Minister also sent messages of condolences to 3:11:02.520 --> 3:11:08.200 Kissinger's family and to Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln. So 3:11:09.200 --> 3:11:14.240 he is getting like he is getting as good a 3:11:14.280 --> 3:11:18.840 reception in China as any American has ever gotten. And 3:11:19.160 --> 3:11:22.000 if you if you can understand how this came to be, 3:11:22.160 --> 3:11:25.640 how like every other country in the region fucking hates 3:11:25.720 --> 3:11:29.120 Kissinger like everyone else despises him. And if you can 3:11:29.200 --> 3:11:32.360 understand why China, why he is like the most popular 3:11:32.360 --> 3:11:35.920 American in Chinese history, you can understand the entire arc 3:11:35.959 --> 3:11:37.640 of the twentieth century and how we ended up with 3:11:37.680 --> 3:11:42.040 the horror that we all live in today. But first, 3:11:42.720 --> 3:11:44.840 speaking of the horrors that we all live in today, 3:11:47.320 --> 3:11:49.720 is breaking. 3:11:50.640 --> 3:11:55.400 Yeah hopefully one of our yeah, hopefully, Henry Kissing your 3:11:55.400 --> 3:11:58.000 collectible coins that they minted ten years ago and now 3:11:58.040 --> 3:11:59.560 been released to the market, and this will be the 3:11:59.600 --> 3:12:02.040 first of any adverts for them. They're only going to 3:12:02.120 --> 3:12:07.760 grown value, insulate yourself against inflation with these Hammery Kissinger coins. 3:12:09.000 --> 3:12:13.120 And we are back. So this story, the story of 3:12:13.120 --> 3:12:15.640 how Kissinger became the most popular man in China, or 3:12:15.680 --> 3:12:19.680 the most popular American in China, begins in Shanghai, nineteen 3:12:19.720 --> 3:12:23.560 twenty seven. Oh, it is the year nineteen twenty seven. 3:12:23.640 --> 3:12:26.600 For over a decade, China has been lost Inger Series 3:12:26.800 --> 3:12:31.560 C Wars. Kissing is seven four four years old. 3:12:31.640 --> 3:12:33.880 Yeah, four years old, child Kissinger. 3:12:34.680 --> 3:12:41.080 Child Kissinger is presumably unaware of the developments in China. Oh, oh, 3:12:42.680 --> 3:12:47.880 say that he was. He was keeping tabs absolutely at 3:12:47.879 --> 3:12:50.760 four years old. Yeah, he was. Even back then. 3:12:50.800 --> 3:12:52.720 He was a quote foreign policy realist. 3:12:53.040 --> 3:12:58.959 A towering intellect of this stature doesn't doesn't start his twenties. 3:12:59.160 --> 3:13:01.680 He starts like it his toddler years. 3:13:02.680 --> 3:13:07.240 Choice of words. By the way, towering intellect. Just looking 3:13:07.320 --> 3:13:08.920 at him, the pictures of him in China where he 3:13:08.920 --> 3:13:11.840 where he's dwarfed, and it's it's just very funny to 3:13:11.840 --> 3:13:13.560 look at this guy's grabbing, towering and it's like he's 3:13:13.560 --> 3:13:14.760 gonna be like five foot nothing. 3:13:15.560 --> 3:13:19.080 His intellect is towering, not his not his, not his person. 3:13:19.400 --> 3:13:22.240 Short King, short king, King, sure King would have been 3:13:22.240 --> 3:13:24.640 a great tweet if the ADELA called him a short king. 3:13:25.080 --> 3:13:27.000 I'm ironically I would have stand that. 3:13:29.600 --> 3:13:34.120 Yes, you were saying so, as as as as little 3:13:34.200 --> 3:13:38.680 tiny baby as Kissinger is looking on China's Communist Party 3:13:38.720 --> 3:13:43.040 is locked in a tenuous alliance with the Chinese Nationalist Party, 3:13:43.080 --> 3:13:44.040 which is the glooming Dong. 3:13:45.040 --> 3:13:45.400 No. 3:13:45.959 --> 3:13:48.880 Yeah, they suck so with the aid of the Soviets. 3:13:48.920 --> 3:13:50.280 And when I say the aid of the Soviets, I 3:13:50.280 --> 3:13:52.680 mean the Soviets basically rebuilt the Nationalist Party from the 3:13:52.720 --> 3:13:57.200 ground up. Yeah, the Nationalists have turned into a juggernaut. 3:13:57.280 --> 3:13:59.360 They have, they are, they have swept aside like every 3:13:59.360 --> 3:14:02.360 world ord army. They face their marching triomphant across the country, 3:14:02.959 --> 3:14:06.320 and ahead of their advance, a massive uprising led by 3:14:06.360 --> 3:14:10.040 the communists finally drives the warlords out of Shanghai, and 3:14:10.160 --> 3:14:14.160 Chinese working class stands victorious. They and they alone stand 3:14:14.240 --> 3:14:17.200 triumphant over the greatest city in China. It is the 3:14:17.280 --> 3:14:19.760 last time they will control this city for forty years. 3:14:21.000 --> 3:14:23.959 The new leader of the Nationalist Party is Chang Kai Shek, 3:14:23.959 --> 3:14:26.520 a proto fascist drug lord who the Soviets, for some 3:14:26.560 --> 3:14:29.600 inexplicable reason, thought was going to work for them and 3:14:29.800 --> 3:14:32.119 was going to like build a socialist state at China. 3:14:33.240 --> 3:14:36.840 Deeply unclear why they thought this. I don't know. Don't 3:14:36.879 --> 3:14:40.360 have stalin running your foreign policy. I don't have. 3:14:40.320 --> 3:14:45.119 Started running shit like as a Yeah, yeah Christmas. 3:14:46.400 --> 3:14:49.200 Yeah, so geez, he's no kissing jerk, Like what can 3:14:49.280 --> 3:14:49.560 we say? 3:14:50.200 --> 3:14:52.360 Yeah, also dead, though thankfully killed. 3:14:52.400 --> 3:14:57.680 Similar numbers of communists were get we are one sentence 3:14:57.720 --> 3:15:00.960 away from that. So, under the direction of Moscow, the 3:15:00.959 --> 3:15:03.720 communists in China convinced the Chinese working class to open 3:15:03.760 --> 3:15:06.280 the gates of the city to allow the nationalist army inside. 3:15:06.560 --> 3:15:09.680 The nationalist army immediately begins slaughtering the Chinese working class. 3:15:09.760 --> 3:15:11.400 By by the end of the white terror that this 3:15:11.520 --> 3:15:14.199 is going to unleash, the nationalists will have killed one 3:15:14.360 --> 3:15:19.600 million people, most of them Chinese workers and peasants. Basically 3:15:20.160 --> 3:15:24.720 like the entire you know, like like basically the entire 3:15:24.840 --> 3:15:28.800 urban Chinese left dies in this like like the the 3:15:28.840 --> 3:15:32.320 in this slaughter, and with them dies basically the entire 3:15:32.360 --> 3:15:35.520 internationalist wing of the Chinese Communist Party. Because the internationalist wing, 3:15:35.560 --> 3:15:38.080 the wing that had you know, very close connections to Moscow, 3:15:38.240 --> 3:15:42.360 were all like in Shanghai, and they were all but 3:15:42.360 --> 3:15:44.920 the most importantly not that they were all literally in Shanghai, 3:15:44.959 --> 3:15:47.360 but they were all part of the urban Communist Party 3:15:47.680 --> 3:15:51.000 and they get just completely wiped out. And this is 3:15:51.040 --> 3:15:53.480 the part of the Shanghai Rising. That for our purposes 3:15:53.560 --> 3:15:57.000 is important because it's the first moment where the rift 3:15:57.040 --> 3:16:00.960 between the Soviets and the Chinese Communist Party begins to form. Now, 3:16:01.000 --> 3:16:03.879 in the wake of the Shanghai massacre, Stalin sends the 3:16:03.920 --> 3:16:07.080 CCP instructions that are just nonsense, Like he's telling them 3:16:07.080 --> 3:16:11.200 to stay aligned with the Nationalist Party, but to oppose Shangkai. 3:16:11.280 --> 3:16:16.240 Shecheck like and literally there's descriptions of the meeting when 3:16:16.280 --> 3:16:18.240 like this this telegram comes in. The CCP leaders are 3:16:18.240 --> 3:16:20.400 like sitting around this I think it's a radio. They're 3:16:20.400 --> 3:16:22.400 sitting around this radio, and they get the they like 3:16:22.440 --> 3:16:24.360 they get the instructions, and they're just like these people 3:16:24.400 --> 3:16:26.760 are just burying their hands in their face because like 3:16:27.040 --> 3:16:30.879 this is nothing, it is nonsense, and you know, and 3:16:30.959 --> 3:16:32.760 this is sort of this is that's like the last 3:16:32.840 --> 3:16:35.160 gasp of the old Communist Party leadership. Those people are 3:16:35.200 --> 3:16:39.160 just gone, and in their place rises Mao. Now Mao 3:16:39.400 --> 3:16:41.320 is not from the urban wing of the party. He 3:16:41.400 --> 3:16:44.000 is from like Mao was a peasant organizer, right, He's 3:16:44.000 --> 3:16:46.680 from the whirl wing, and his wing of the party 3:16:46.760 --> 3:16:49.600 tends to be more nationalist and less sort of like 3:16:50.080 --> 3:16:53.000 subservient to Moscow. Than the urban wing of the party, 3:16:53.840 --> 3:16:56.840 and with Stalin basically getting the entire urban Communist Party 3:16:56.959 --> 3:16:59.120 and like every other urban leftist in the country killed, 3:17:00.440 --> 3:17:02.520 you know, the people that are left are MAO and 3:17:02.520 --> 3:17:05.480 the sort of peasant organizations who have a distrust of 3:17:05.520 --> 3:17:08.119 the Soviets that they're going to maintain for basically their 3:17:08.240 --> 3:17:14.039 entire lives. Now, obviously relations between the CCP and Stalin 3:17:14.320 --> 3:17:19.160 improve as like World War two happens, but there's a 3:17:19.440 --> 3:17:21.320 basically the moment the war ends, there's a series of 3:17:21.360 --> 3:17:24.560 incidents that sort of trained relations. One is that this 3:17:24.600 --> 3:17:27.560 is less an incident, but Stalin seems to not have 3:17:27.720 --> 3:17:30.960 thought that the CCP was gonna win the war, like 3:17:31.000 --> 3:17:33.440 he seems to have thought that the nationalists are going 3:17:33.440 --> 3:17:37.080 to beat them. And one of the things that he 3:17:37.160 --> 3:17:42.040 does is basically de industrializes Japan's giant industrial belt and 3:17:42.040 --> 3:17:46.039 occupied Manchuria. This is a completely intact industrial belt. It 3:17:46.080 --> 3:17:48.360 is one of the largest like intact industrial belts in 3:17:48.400 --> 3:17:53.400 the world, and Stalin, like in classic Soviet fashion, takes 3:17:53.440 --> 3:17:56.280 the factories, takes them apart, puts them on trains, and 3:17:56.320 --> 3:17:59.680 ships them across across the so sorry to rebuild this 3:17:59.720 --> 3:18:01.400 Ovia economy, yep. 3:18:01.640 --> 3:18:04.599 One of the first is many such incidents. 3:18:05.160 --> 3:18:08.480 Yeah, and this is a catastrophe for the CCP because 3:18:09.200 --> 3:18:12.160 even after the CCP wins the war, because they've now 3:18:12.320 --> 3:18:15.960 you know, so it's like Shanghai is in ruins, Beijing, 3:18:16.000 --> 3:18:18.560 like most of China is just in ruins because of 3:18:19.160 --> 3:18:21.600 I mean, like, what year are they on if effectively 3:18:21.600 --> 3:18:27.440 continuous fighting and the after the war. China's industrial base 3:18:27.800 --> 3:18:30.800 in this is nineteen forty nine, right, Their industrial base 3:18:30.959 --> 3:18:36.480 is smaller than Russia's in nineteen seventeen, which is just nuts, 3:18:36.520 --> 3:18:39.880 it is and this is small, yeah, and this is 3:18:39.920 --> 3:18:43.360 the conditions that the everything, the entire course of twenty 3:18:43.400 --> 3:18:47.120 century Chinese history are defined by these conditions, right, And 3:18:47.320 --> 3:18:52.959 these specific conditions are this is basically a production bottleneck, right. 3:18:53.000 --> 3:18:54.520 And I've talked about this on the show before. This 3:18:54.560 --> 3:18:55.680 is one of the one of the sort of most 3:18:55.680 --> 3:18:59.760 important things in twentieth century Chinese like political economy, is 3:18:59.760 --> 3:19:03.480 that you know, the CCP is trying to simultaneously expand 3:19:03.480 --> 3:19:06.400 its agricultural production to feed people and also expand its 3:19:06.440 --> 3:19:08.600 industrial capacity. It's mostly trying to expand it to its 3:19:08.600 --> 3:19:11.560 industrial capacity. The problem is they can't expand their industrial 3:19:11.560 --> 3:19:15.360 capacity without expanding their agricultural capacity, and they can't expand 3:19:15.360 --> 3:19:19.480 their agricultural capacity without expanding their industrial capacity. And their 3:19:19.480 --> 3:19:23.000 attempt to just blow through this by like mass use 3:19:23.040 --> 3:19:27.400 of human labor is the great lead bored. It's complete catastrophe, right, 3:19:27.800 --> 3:19:30.840 this is just gonna fuck like whatever like intentions like 3:19:30.879 --> 3:19:32.720 the Chinese Revolution had, this is just going to fuck 3:19:32.720 --> 3:19:35.080 them because the combination of this and their ideology is 3:19:35.120 --> 3:19:39.400 just going to doom the entire project. And you know 3:19:41.320 --> 3:19:45.000 this and the other thing about this period, the Soviets 3:19:45.000 --> 3:19:48.760 are really really patronizing, like they talk about like constantly 3:19:48.800 --> 3:19:51.640 and like diplomatic things, like they talk about the Soviet 3:19:51.800 --> 3:19:54.760 like the Chinese is like their younger brothers. There's like 3:19:54.760 --> 3:19:58.400 this weird like thing going on. This isn't enough to 3:19:58.400 --> 3:20:02.080 substantially threaten their alliance, but the relationship between the USSR 3:20:02.120 --> 3:20:06.000 and China is never as it's never quite as firm 3:20:06.040 --> 3:20:06.760 as people. 3:20:06.480 --> 3:20:07.000 Think it is. 3:20:08.680 --> 3:20:13.560 Now. The thing that really like kickstarts the break between 3:20:13.560 --> 3:20:16.960 the USSR and China is Khrushev's secret speech denouncing Stalin. 3:20:17.280 --> 3:20:19.880 So this gets like leaked. Krushchev makes the speech where 3:20:19.879 --> 3:20:22.640 he was like wow, Stalin did some fucked up stuff 3:20:22.879 --> 3:20:28.039 they called the personality was bad, actually, and this pisss 3:20:28.080 --> 3:20:32.600 off an enormous number of people. Mau forever like problems 3:20:32.680 --> 3:20:36.000 malhas with Stalin. He takes a very hard line on this, 3:20:36.000 --> 3:20:38.920 where he's like, no, I'm like, the Soviets are now revisionists, 3:20:38.920 --> 3:20:41.119 they have abandoned the path of Marcs Leninism. I am 3:20:41.200 --> 3:20:45.240 now the only anti revisionist in the world. And you know, 3:20:45.280 --> 3:20:47.680 and this whole thing like results in these worstening relations 3:20:47.720 --> 3:20:50.320 between China and the Soviet Union, with the CCP basically 3:20:50.400 --> 3:20:54.520 calling the Soviets like weak neck bureaucratic social imperialists and 3:20:54.640 --> 3:20:57.680 the Soviets looking at like the great leap forward and 3:20:57.720 --> 3:21:02.200 being like, what are these maniacs doing? And this tension 3:21:02.320 --> 3:21:06.160 escalates to the sixtieses both sides start massing troops on 3:21:06.280 --> 3:21:10.600 the Chinese Soviet border. Now meanwhile, so so okay, the 3:21:10.840 --> 3:21:11.800 sixties goes. 3:21:11.600 --> 3:21:13.000 On, and. 3:21:14.640 --> 3:21:18.119 Control of the Soviet Union has fallen to Leoned Breshnev, 3:21:18.200 --> 3:21:22.320 who is an absolute maniac, deeply weird, deeply not very 3:21:22.320 --> 3:21:26.640 good guy, and he in response to the Council Communist 3:21:26.760 --> 3:21:29.280 uprising in Prague in nineteen sixty eight, Breshnev rolls tanks 3:21:29.280 --> 3:21:32.760 in kills everyone, and then declares the Breshnev Doctrine, in 3:21:32.760 --> 3:21:36.359 which Breshnev claims the right to overthrow any socialist government 3:21:36.400 --> 3:21:39.200 who the Soviets decided we're trying to become capitalists, which 3:21:39.320 --> 3:21:41.200 I mean, this is the Soviet's right like that that 3:21:41.360 --> 3:21:44.039 what that actually means is that they don't align with USSR. 3:21:44.560 --> 3:21:49.440 So Breshnev means this to be about Eastern Europe, right. 3:21:50.160 --> 3:21:52.920 MAO looks at this and goes, oh shit, Breshnev is 3:21:52.920 --> 3:21:57.320 going to try to overthrow be and this does not 3:21:57.400 --> 3:22:00.280 go well. So and you know, I know the looking 3:22:00.280 --> 3:22:01.920 at it, he's looking at like the Soviet troops massing 3:22:01.920 --> 3:22:06.240 on the border, and he's like, oh shit. And this 3:22:06.280 --> 3:22:09.720 is where things get absolutely wild. In nineteen sixty nine, 3:22:09.760 --> 3:22:14.039 there are a giant series of border skirmishes between this 3:22:14.240 --> 3:22:16.800 between Soviet and Chinese troops. People are killing each other 3:22:16.879 --> 3:22:21.680 across this enormous this is like continent sized border. People 3:22:21.720 --> 3:22:26.000 are like like like like companies of Chinese and Soviet 3:22:26.000 --> 3:22:29.160 troops are like firing artillery at each other. Everyone is 3:22:29.200 --> 3:22:32.400 completely losing their minds. And this is actually like one 3:22:32.400 --> 3:22:34.920 of the reasons why, Like every once in a while 3:22:34.920 --> 3:22:38.680 you'll get these things from the Himalayas and China's border 3:22:38.680 --> 3:22:41.800 with India, where everyone's like hitting each other with sticks, 3:22:41.920 --> 3:22:44.280 and the reason you're hitting each other with sticks is that, 3:22:44.600 --> 3:22:48.080 like the Chinese were like, wait, hold on, it's actually 3:22:48.120 --> 3:22:49.880 a bad idea to have guys with guns on the 3:22:49.920 --> 3:22:52.040 border of a nuclear power. Yeah. 3:22:52.120 --> 3:22:55.800 Yeah, they have some amazing, amazing browls. 3:22:56.600 --> 3:22:58.680 Yeah, but you know, but like and the funny thing 3:22:58.800 --> 3:23:01.800 like that, that's the reasonable version of this. In sixty nine, 3:23:01.840 --> 3:23:05.080 they're having the unreasonable version of this, where the Soviets 3:23:05.080 --> 3:23:07.440 are looking at the situation and they're going, oh shit, 3:23:07.560 --> 3:23:10.959 we can't win a war with China because their calculation 3:23:11.080 --> 3:23:13.520 is that they will eventually be overwhelmed by a combination 3:23:13.600 --> 3:23:15.280 of human wave attacks and the fact that like an 3:23:15.400 --> 3:23:17.960 enormous portion of the China is the Chinese population has 3:23:18.000 --> 3:23:20.520 been trained in guerrilla warfare. And their second problem is 3:23:20.560 --> 3:23:22.720 that the Chinese population is to disperse for them to 3:23:22.720 --> 3:23:25.840 all be killed by a Soviet nuclear weapons. And the 3:23:25.879 --> 3:23:28.200 CCP makes the same assessment and it's like, Okay, if 3:23:28.240 --> 3:23:30.160 we fight this war, like the human wave attacks are 3:23:30.160 --> 3:23:31.879 just going to eventually are going to crush them. We're 3:23:31.879 --> 3:23:33.600 going to use force numbers that can't kill us all 3:23:33.600 --> 3:23:36.600 with nukes. So the Soviets plan for this is they 3:23:36.640 --> 3:23:39.240 are like drawing up plans to line the border with 3:23:39.360 --> 3:23:44.920 China with nuclear land mines to stop the chese. It's nuts. 3:23:44.959 --> 3:23:51.200 Everyone is losing their minds normal times. Yeah, Like I've 3:23:51.240 --> 3:23:54.039 seen rumors. This is the thing I don't have actually 3:23:54.160 --> 3:23:57.040 good sources on. I've seen a lot of rumors that 3:23:57.160 --> 3:24:01.400 both both the Soviets and China like reached out to 3:24:01.480 --> 3:24:03.560 the US try to get them the nuke. The other side, 3:24:05.280 --> 3:24:11.280 it's everyone is everyone is completely losing their minds. And 3:24:12.560 --> 3:24:19.119 you know, so at this point, like both sides kind 3:24:19.120 --> 3:24:22.560 of back down because both of them realize that, like 3:24:22.840 --> 3:24:26.200 fighting this war is the stupidest thing that anything could 3:24:26.240 --> 3:24:29.800 possibly do, because there's there's like there is there was 3:24:29.840 --> 3:24:32.560 a little tiny shred of sanity left in both sides. 3:24:32.600 --> 3:24:35.280 That's like, do we like actually what to have a 3:24:35.360 --> 3:24:39.160 nuclear war? And they're like no, okay, but this marks 3:24:39.160 --> 3:24:41.960 the permanent solidification of what's called the Sino Soviet split. 3:24:43.959 --> 3:24:45.760 And do you know what else is it is? It 3:24:45.800 --> 3:24:49.320 is a Sino Soviet split. It's the split between the 3:24:49.320 --> 3:24:51.039 part of the episode that's ads and the part of 3:24:51.040 --> 3:24:52.600 the episode that's episode. 3:24:53.480 --> 3:24:55.800 That is a very important split that does relate to 3:24:55.879 --> 3:24:59.280 the worker councils of the Soviet state, as if the 3:24:59.320 --> 3:25:02.400 Soviets got their wish for world domination, we wouldn't be 3:25:02.400 --> 3:25:05.960 pivoting to an AD break instead, this would be purely 3:25:06.120 --> 3:25:07.039 workers sponsored. 3:25:07.080 --> 3:25:08.240 I don't know, here's the. 3:25:08.200 --> 3:25:13.040 App all right, I for one, am very excited to 3:25:13.080 --> 3:25:18.480 get those Coininger limited edition NFT collectibles. I think it's 3:25:18.520 --> 3:25:21.280 a real solid investment. So I know it sounds a 3:25:21.280 --> 3:25:23.680 little far fetched, but hey, in ten years, you can 3:25:23.720 --> 3:25:25.800 sell it to some guy from the CCP and. 3:25:26.120 --> 3:25:29.760 You might make a lot of money. So yeah, food 3:25:29.800 --> 3:25:30.640 for thought or the ad. 3:25:30.879 --> 3:25:33.600 That's right, that's right. You can sell it to Pit Cabbage. 3:25:33.879 --> 3:25:38.040 He could buy that for like ten grand. All if 3:25:38.080 --> 3:25:41.320 you spend one thousand dollars and in ten years you 3:25:41.320 --> 3:25:43.160 could be getting ten grand from pit Cabbage. 3:25:43.240 --> 3:25:44.840 And that sounds like that sounds like a great deal. 3:25:45.200 --> 3:25:46.959 That's a that's a ten percent discount as well with 3:25:47.040 --> 3:25:57.400 the discount code. Garrison Davis. Sorry miss back in script. 3:26:00.600 --> 3:26:03.960 So the back in nineteen sixty nine basically from from 3:26:04.000 --> 3:26:07.720 from yeah, yeah, so it basically from this point on, 3:26:07.800 --> 3:26:10.680 the USSR and the People's Republic of China are enemies. 3:26:10.680 --> 3:26:13.320 This is what's called the Sino Soviet split. And Mao 3:26:13.400 --> 3:26:17.400 begins casting around for allies, and into this breach steps 3:26:17.400 --> 3:26:24.560 a man accursed through history. Who's who's towering footfalls echo 3:26:25.600 --> 3:26:28.200 through the halls of power. I am talking, of course, 3:26:28.240 --> 3:26:35.640 about Charles de Gaulle. Yeah, most Frenchman two exists. Yeah, 3:26:35.920 --> 3:26:39.520 so Degall has been devising a strategy to pull China 3:26:39.640 --> 3:26:41.720 away from the USSR and towards the West. And this 3:26:41.800 --> 3:26:44.960 is the origin of what's called Triangle diplomacy. Now Kissinger 3:26:45.080 --> 3:26:49.000 steals this idea and goes and does it. But this 3:26:49.240 --> 3:26:52.240 was not Kissinger's idea. This was this was a plan 3:26:52.560 --> 3:26:54.760 that was already kind of in motion that he stole 3:26:54.800 --> 3:26:55.600 from the Gaull. 3:26:57.240 --> 3:27:01.039 Good artists copy great artists, steal Kissinger was anything. 3:27:01.440 --> 3:27:03.400 It wasn't artist great artists. 3:27:05.160 --> 3:27:08.560 What the Tony Blair Foundation said, It's not as Joe 3:27:09.120 --> 3:27:12.480 God fucking make jokes because everything's too fucked. 3:27:13.400 --> 3:27:16.480 I'm quoting the Tony Blair Foundation. That was it. There was, 3:27:16.480 --> 3:27:19.360 there was, there was there was some oh god, I 3:27:19.360 --> 3:27:22.400 can't remember his name. So someone in the seventies declared 3:27:22.400 --> 3:27:24.960 that satire the day, the day that Henry Kissinger won 3:27:24.959 --> 3:27:27.000 the Nobel Peace Prize the day Satire died. And he 3:27:27.120 --> 3:27:29.280 was right. And this is why satire doesn't work any work. 3:27:29.640 --> 3:27:32.160 Yeah, Tony Blair is now pissing on its grave. 3:27:33.480 --> 3:27:40.119 A yeah, so all right, but the you know, okay, So, 3:27:40.120 --> 3:27:44.080 so this triangle diplomacy thing, Kissinger basically takes it over. 3:27:44.200 --> 3:27:48.480 And the key element of this plan is is to 3:27:48.560 --> 3:27:51.200 use China as a bulwark against the Soviets, both in 3:27:51.440 --> 3:27:53.920 East and Southeast Asia and in places like Central Africa. 3:27:55.240 --> 3:27:57.119 But in order to do this they have to actually 3:27:57.360 --> 3:28:00.960 like establish contact with China, a thing they haven't had 3:28:01.080 --> 3:28:05.320 in like thirty years. Wow, I guess twenty. Ah whatever, 3:28:05.400 --> 3:28:07.200 Hey complicated. I'm not going to go through the entire 3:28:07.200 --> 3:28:10.560 diplomatic history of China, but you know, if you and 3:28:10.959 --> 3:28:15.200 this is the origin of one of Kissinger's most famous crimes, 3:28:15.480 --> 3:28:19.119 which is Operation search Light, which is Pakistan's genocide and Bangladesh. 3:28:19.200 --> 3:28:22.360 They kill about three million people. If you want to 3:28:22.400 --> 3:28:24.320 really detailed account of this, go listen to the Behind 3:28:24.360 --> 3:28:27.640 the Basses episodes. The short version of this is that 3:28:27.760 --> 3:28:30.240 Pakistan has been a Chinese ally for a while for 3:28:30.440 --> 3:28:33.360 a lot of reasons, one of which is China's antagonism 3:28:33.440 --> 3:28:37.240 with India, which peaked in nineteen sixty two when China 3:28:37.600 --> 3:28:41.720 just straight up invaded and he'speeded border region, conquered it 3:28:41.840 --> 3:28:44.600 and then like handed Nehru his ass in the process 3:28:44.720 --> 3:28:47.680 of what became known as a Sino Indian War. And 3:28:47.840 --> 3:28:50.760 this is an incredible betrayal, by the way, like Neihru, 3:28:50.800 --> 3:28:55.240 who was the Prime Minister of India, Nehru had turned 3:28:55.360 --> 3:28:59.320 down a permanent seat on the UN Security Council because 3:28:59.480 --> 3:29:01.080 because he was being given the seat as a way 3:29:01.120 --> 3:29:03.360 to make sure China didn't get it, and he turned it. 3:29:03.520 --> 3:29:06.440 He turned down that seat to get China onto the 3:29:06.480 --> 3:29:10.440 Security Council like out of out of like, not out 3:29:10.440 --> 3:29:14.320 of geopolitical like. This was basically a pure like ideological 3:29:14.360 --> 3:29:16.160 I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do thing, 3:29:16.480 --> 3:29:22.800 and Mao returns him by fucking invading India. So because 3:29:22.840 --> 3:29:25.160 of this and because of like you know, India Pakistan 3:29:25.240 --> 3:29:28.720 don't like each other. This is this is known. The 3:29:28.760 --> 3:29:32.160 Pakistani government is very close to China. Pakistani troops are 3:29:32.200 --> 3:29:34.400 trained by the Chinese army. They are armed with Chinese 3:29:34.440 --> 3:29:37.440 weapons and with Kissinger's blessings, so he could use the 3:29:37.480 --> 3:29:40.680 Pakistani government as an intermediary to negotiate with China. The 3:29:40.720 --> 3:29:43.800 Pakistani government seeds to kill three million Bangladeshis. 3:29:45.120 --> 3:29:45.360 It is. 3:29:46.240 --> 3:29:48.600 Yeah, this is. It is among the worst crimes of 3:29:48.640 --> 3:29:52.600 the twentieth century. It's a crime that it is broadly forgotten. 3:29:52.920 --> 3:29:56.240 China's complicity in it is forgotten. The American's complicity in 3:29:56.280 --> 3:29:59.800 it is barely remembered, basically only when people talk about Kissinger. 3:30:00.640 --> 3:30:03.200 But this was one of the worst things that happened 3:30:03.240 --> 3:30:05.280 in like one of the worst centuries in human history. 3:30:06.480 --> 3:30:08.760 But you know, for Kissinger, this is an enormous success, right, 3:30:08.800 --> 3:30:10.160 He gets everything that he fucking wants out of it. 3:30:10.160 --> 3:30:12.680 He doesn't give a shit about Bangwadeshis. Then you know, 3:30:12.879 --> 3:30:15.600 this is a tradition that has like echoed through the 3:30:15.959 --> 3:30:17.879 like the e ods of the liberals have ever since 3:30:18.520 --> 3:30:21.600 the US successfully opens diplomatic channels with China. And soon 3:30:21.720 --> 3:30:24.720 Kissinger and Nixon are going to meet Mao in China, 3:30:25.120 --> 3:30:28.080 And I'm going to read from Mao talking to Kissinger 3:30:28.240 --> 3:30:32.360 so you can understand who these people are. The tree 3:30:32.440 --> 3:30:34.920 between our two countries at present is very pitiful, is 3:30:35.040 --> 3:30:37.760 gradually increasing. You know, China is a poor country. We 3:30:37.840 --> 3:30:42.560 don't have very much. What we have in excess is women, Kissinger. 3:30:42.680 --> 3:30:46.600 There are no quotas or terrible for those, Chairman Mao, 3:30:47.480 --> 3:30:49.880 So if you want so, if you want them, we 3:30:49.920 --> 3:30:52.360 can give you a few of those, some tens of thousands, 3:30:53.120 --> 3:30:56.800 Prime Minister show of course, on a voluntary basis. Chairman Mao, 3:30:57.080 --> 3:30:59.360 let them go to your place. They will create disasters. 3:30:59.400 --> 3:31:04.040 That way you can lesson our burdens. Laughter. Sometime later, Mao, 3:31:04.320 --> 3:31:06.200 do you want our Chinese women, We can give you 3:31:06.320 --> 3:31:13.959 ten million laughter. Jesus, the Chairman is improving his offer bow. 3:31:14.440 --> 3:31:16.840 By doing this, we can let them flood your country 3:31:16.879 --> 3:31:20.039 with disaster and therefore impair your interest in our country. 3:31:20.120 --> 3:31:21.680 We have too many women, and they have a way 3:31:21.720 --> 3:31:23.840 of doing things. They give birth the children, and our 3:31:23.920 --> 3:31:28.720 children are too many. I mean, this is like a 3:31:28.879 --> 3:31:34.200 deeply CCP moment, like, yeah, this is like this is 3:31:34.240 --> 3:31:36.400 one of these stings. Was like there are people in 3:31:36.520 --> 3:31:40.359 the United States to this day who call themselves Maoists 3:31:40.760 --> 3:31:43.560 and like and think that this guy was like on 3:31:43.720 --> 3:31:47.119 the fucking left, and it's like, how do you fucking 3:31:47.240 --> 3:31:49.560 read that? Like him, just him just doing this fucking 3:31:49.640 --> 3:31:53.160 banter with the Butcher of Bangladesh and be like no, no, no, 3:31:53.440 --> 3:31:55.280 this is the guy who figured out to keep the 3:31:56.080 --> 3:31:58.440 key to achieving like socialism, right, he is the guy 3:31:58.480 --> 3:32:00.959 you figured ou how to end the class system, end imperialism. 3:32:01.400 --> 3:32:04.760 Is this fucking guy poling it up with fucking Henry 3:32:04.879 --> 3:32:11.840 fucking Kissinger, Like it's terrible, Like I just yeah, it's not. 3:32:12.440 --> 3:32:15.080 I meant the king to being a mauist is not 3:32:15.280 --> 3:32:17.520 reading this though true. 3:32:19.320 --> 3:32:22.880 I've seen maoists on Twitter trying to defend this. They're like, well, 3:32:23.360 --> 3:32:25.560 it was only like a temporary thing because the Soviets 3:32:25.600 --> 3:32:28.200 were threatening the New China and like, you know, and 3:32:28.320 --> 3:32:29.920 I'm one of the things that one of the real 3:32:29.959 --> 3:32:32.040 problems they have is that so in Angola, there's a 3:32:32.080 --> 3:32:35.040 civil war in Angola. There is a a faction that 3:32:35.200 --> 3:32:37.280 are the good guys, and then there's a faction that's 3:32:37.280 --> 3:32:41.600 being backed by apartheid South Africa and backing the apartheid 3:32:41.680 --> 3:32:46.880 South Africa fashion. Yeah, so you know, and this is 3:32:46.920 --> 3:32:49.760 the thing they have to justify and they can't. And 3:32:49.840 --> 3:32:51.480 this actually and you know, one of this actually has 3:32:51.560 --> 3:32:55.880 impacts in the US because like American maoists are confronted 3:32:55.959 --> 3:32:58.119 with this and are like what the fuck. 3:32:58.680 --> 3:32:59.720 Like what is this? 3:33:00.520 --> 3:33:02.400 And there are some of them who just like ignore 3:33:02.480 --> 3:33:04.400 it and quadruple down. There are some of it who 3:33:04.440 --> 3:33:05.400 become disillusioned. 3:33:06.160 --> 3:33:08.640 You could even pick a different tanky, like like Cuba 3:33:08.720 --> 3:33:10.600 heavily supported the m p l A and I go, 3:33:10.879 --> 3:33:13.119 for instance, like yeah, at. 3:33:13.120 --> 3:33:16.560 Least and just like yeah, moved to like Castro or something. 3:33:16.600 --> 3:33:16.960 I don't know. 3:33:17.800 --> 3:33:21.400 Trotsky's right there, He's right there with an ice pick 3:33:21.440 --> 3:33:21.840 in his head. 3:33:22.240 --> 3:33:23.240 So true. 3:33:25.040 --> 3:33:30.680 Should have happened to Kissinger a fucking incredible alternate history 3:33:35.440 --> 3:33:37.959 lives and Kissinger dies lives. 3:33:37.760 --> 3:33:38.360 To one hundred. 3:33:39.120 --> 3:33:42.800 The world is so much it's the world's are like 3:33:42.959 --> 3:33:45.280 a great place, but it is a much better place 3:33:45.480 --> 3:33:46.640 in that alternate history. 3:33:47.640 --> 3:33:50.600 Can you imagine if Trotsky had held on long enough 3:33:50.640 --> 3:33:53.080 for social media to exist? You know, oh my god, 3:33:56.400 --> 3:33:59.160 it's him and the one the person I've been most 3:33:59.160 --> 3:34:01.360 sad right now than never gone on there was Goredal. 3:34:02.040 --> 3:34:05.640 He would have been killed it he would Yeah. 3:34:05.760 --> 3:34:07.840 Yeah, there's a few people you just think would have 3:34:07.920 --> 3:34:08.720 been magnificent. 3:34:10.120 --> 3:34:12.600 Vodal has a famous a Kissinger moment where he's he's 3:34:12.640 --> 3:34:15.680 he's watching he runs into a Kissinger like in the 3:34:15.760 --> 3:34:18.680 Sistine Chapel, like looking at the part that's like looking 3:34:18.720 --> 3:34:22.280 at the hell part of it. Vidal goes, Kissinger is 3:34:22.280 --> 3:34:23.119 apartment hunting. 3:34:24.440 --> 3:34:31.880 Very funny, very yeah, yeah, yeah, that is brains. 3:34:31.920 --> 3:34:33.880 So many of these. There's there another famous one where 3:34:33.920 --> 3:34:40.160 the the absolutely dog Ship American author Norman Baylor punches 3:34:40.240 --> 3:34:42.080 him and he's like falls over because he's got punched. 3:34:42.120 --> 3:34:46.000 While he's on the ground, Vandal goes, words failed Norman 3:34:46.080 --> 3:34:56.560 Baylor again. Yeah, really incredible guy, real time posting. We 3:34:57.040 --> 3:35:00.120 see it. Yeah, tragic, tragic had never made it it. 3:35:00.640 --> 3:35:04.280 Lots of tragedies unfolding. One of them is that you know, 3:35:05.000 --> 3:35:09.880 this whole thing of like like kissingered bantering with Mao 3:35:10.120 --> 3:35:13.080 like this it works like the US and China established 3:35:13.080 --> 3:35:17.080 mathomatic relations. And this is a this is a seismic 3:35:17.280 --> 3:35:21.560 shift in sort of Chinese popular culture and media and 3:35:21.640 --> 3:35:27.160 consciousness because from the Korean War until like the seventies, right, 3:35:27.240 --> 3:35:30.480 the way people think about America and the way they're 3:35:30.520 --> 3:35:34.840 portrayed in Chinese media is like as the great imperialist enemy, right, 3:35:34.920 --> 3:35:37.480 like the last time there was contact between the US 3:35:37.560 --> 3:35:40.200 and China. It is a bunch of Chinese troops doing 3:35:40.280 --> 3:35:44.360 bayonet charges, like wearing sandals in the fucking snow, doing 3:35:44.480 --> 3:35:47.520 bayonet chargers through their own artillery barages to kill American 3:35:47.560 --> 3:35:50.720 troops like that. That is like like the amount of 3:35:50.800 --> 3:35:55.640 hatred like there is is unbelievable. And you know, it's 3:35:55.640 --> 3:35:58.080 funny because like the US like really forgot that war, 3:35:58.440 --> 3:36:06.720 but like China did not, right, and suddenly like America 3:36:06.840 --> 3:36:12.519 is China's friend. And the human face of this absolutely 3:36:12.879 --> 3:36:18.480 Parkle shift in basically the entire ideological system of Chinese communism. 3:36:18.720 --> 3:36:22.240 The face of this shift in in the just the 3:36:22.360 --> 3:36:25.320 image of what America is, which is like it doesn't 3:36:25.400 --> 3:36:27.640 it's not quite mapping on, but it's like like America, 3:36:28.000 --> 3:36:30.960 like it's it's kind of like how Baptists think about 3:36:31.000 --> 3:36:33.480 the devil, right like that that that is the role 3:36:33.520 --> 3:36:36.200 that America has in Chinese like popular sort of culture 3:36:36.600 --> 3:36:38.760 like up until this point, and then suddenly it's completely 3:36:38.760 --> 3:36:40.959 pivot on its head. And the face of this shift 3:36:41.000 --> 3:36:44.280 is Kissinger. And you know and this, uh, this is 3:36:44.400 --> 3:36:48.400 pingpong Eurasia is what you're doing right now? This yeah, 3:36:48.520 --> 3:36:50.920 happened to this all happened due to table tennis, and 3:36:51.000 --> 3:36:54.320 I won't hear any other way. Oh god, I was 3:36:55.160 --> 3:36:58.200 I specifically did it include that the table tennis diplomacy 3:36:58.280 --> 3:37:00.879 at this because I was like, I hate the ship, but. 3:37:01.080 --> 3:37:05.360 Yeah, liberals really get on that ship. They talk about 3:37:06.160 --> 3:37:09.680 I think Joseph was a big diplomacy guy. 3:37:09.840 --> 3:37:12.080 Yeah, but it's like, you know, but I I think, 3:37:12.560 --> 3:37:15.959 like thing on diplomacy is an example of like how 3:37:16.160 --> 3:37:18.560 circumscribed the contact between the U to the US and 3:37:18.640 --> 3:37:20.520 China is right, Like again, like we're talking about like 3:37:21.080 --> 3:37:24.000 like ping pong teams playing each other. This is like 3:37:24.200 --> 3:37:27.520 the big diplomatic and cultural exchanges going on between China 3:37:27.520 --> 3:37:31.280 and the US. There's nothing. And this is something that 3:37:31.440 --> 3:37:33.120 you have to sort of understand if you want to 3:37:33.200 --> 3:37:37.520 understand this pivot is how isolated China was. Right Like 3:37:37.920 --> 3:37:40.600 the US through this entire period is pretending that the 3:37:40.680 --> 3:37:43.320 nationalists in Taiwan or the legitimate government of all of China, 3:37:43.879 --> 3:37:48.280 they have blocked off effectively all trade with China. They've 3:37:48.280 --> 3:37:50.280 blocked off basically all trade from the US. They've blocked 3:37:50.320 --> 3:37:53.800 off a huge amount of international trade and and you know, 3:37:53.879 --> 3:37:56.520 and this this this is something that really really cripples 3:37:56.560 --> 3:38:00.560 the Chinese economy. Like you know, you can't quite blame 3:38:00.640 --> 3:38:04.560 it for like the famines because like I mean, for example, 3:38:04.560 --> 3:38:06.920 like the CCP was exporting grain to the USSR while 3:38:07.000 --> 3:38:09.720 greatly before what was happening, right like, but I mean, 3:38:09.800 --> 3:38:14.000 it didn't fucking help that. And one of the the 3:38:14.240 --> 3:38:16.800 other big consequence of this is that it is almost 3:38:16.840 --> 3:38:19.800 impossible for Chinese people to go to China. Like you 3:38:20.040 --> 3:38:22.360 you basically can't do it. And this is an enormous 3:38:22.400 --> 3:38:25.440 deal because there are tens of millions of Chinese people 3:38:25.440 --> 3:38:27.720 across the world who can't go back to China. These 3:38:27.720 --> 3:38:29.800 people can't see their families, they can't see their friends, 3:38:30.200 --> 3:38:32.120 they can't go to the graves of their ancestors, they 3:38:32.160 --> 3:38:35.200 can't they can't go home. And this happened with my family, 3:38:35.320 --> 3:38:38.280 Like my grandpa didn't see his brothers and sisters for 3:38:38.560 --> 3:38:44.200 forty years after the war. Forty years just did not 3:38:44.320 --> 3:38:48.879 see his family. And you know, and it's only when 3:38:48.959 --> 3:38:50.440 Kissinger and that this is the way that it's seen 3:38:50.480 --> 3:38:53.320 in China. It's only when Kissinger re establishes relations, which 3:38:53.400 --> 3:38:56.400 Kissinger goes out there and advocates and The way they 3:38:56.480 --> 3:38:58.640 see it is he's advocating for China in the US, 3:38:58.879 --> 3:39:01.640 which is kind of true. But the way they see 3:39:01.680 --> 3:39:05.879 this is only when Kissinger reestablishes diplomatic relations, that's when 3:39:05.920 --> 3:39:07.920 it becomes possible for you to see your family again. 3:39:09.200 --> 3:39:11.959 And you know, like I cannot emphasize enough how big 3:39:12.000 --> 3:39:14.240 of a deal this is in China in the diaspora, Like, 3:39:14.320 --> 3:39:17.320 if you are in the diaspora, you can't get fucking 3:39:17.360 --> 3:39:19.960 messages in you Like a lot of people don't know 3:39:20.040 --> 3:39:22.280 whether their family is still alive because the last time 3:39:22.360 --> 3:39:25.440 they saw them was the war or and when I 3:39:25.480 --> 3:39:27.200 say though war, like that could be World War two, 3:39:27.240 --> 3:39:29.160 that could be the Revolution, that could be people liking 3:39:29.480 --> 3:39:32.640 before that. And you know, this is a huge deal 3:39:32.680 --> 3:39:34.720 in the diaspora too, to the point where like a 3:39:34.800 --> 3:39:36.840 lot of the people who had been like in the 3:39:36.920 --> 3:39:39.600 in the Asian American movements in sixty eight, like people 3:39:39.600 --> 3:39:41.920 who had been like Yellow Peril, Yellow Power, people who 3:39:41.920 --> 3:39:44.199 are like ally with the Black Panthers, Like these people 3:39:44.280 --> 3:39:47.119 are trying to get jobs in the Nixon State departments 3:39:47.240 --> 3:39:49.880 because they want to be there to like help reopen 3:39:49.920 --> 3:39:54.400 diplomatic relations with China. It is it is like, this 3:39:54.560 --> 3:39:56.199 is like it is one of the sort of apocaum 3:39:56.320 --> 3:39:59.480 moments of the second half of the twentieth century. Is 3:40:00.200 --> 3:40:03.840 this this these diplomatic relations opening up again. And in 3:40:03.920 --> 3:40:08.000 the Chinese media, they don't really want Nixon to be 3:40:08.040 --> 3:40:14.160 the face of it because now there's this is not great. 3:40:15.840 --> 3:40:18.400 But so they they put they put Kissinger as like 3:40:18.480 --> 3:40:23.200 the human face of all of this, and you know, 3:40:23.320 --> 3:40:25.320 and and there's there's and there's a lot of benefits 3:40:25.400 --> 3:40:28.959 of China from this. They're getting these massive technological transfers 3:40:29.560 --> 3:40:31.240 from the US, and this is one of the things 3:40:31.280 --> 3:40:33.160 that it's in I think it's a very underrated factor, 3:40:33.200 --> 3:40:34.800 but this is one of the factors that makes their 3:40:34.959 --> 3:40:38.280 their technology. Like sorry, let me say that again. This 3:40:38.440 --> 3:40:40.920 is one of the factors that makes it's one of 3:40:40.959 --> 3:40:44.440 the incredibly underrated factors that makes their industrialization program work. 3:40:44.440 --> 3:40:46.920 And there's a lot of places where people try similar 3:40:46.959 --> 3:40:49.280 industrialization programs to what China is going to pull off, 3:40:49.360 --> 3:40:52.840 Like Venezuela, for example, tries this, and Venezuela's program completely 3:40:52.879 --> 3:40:55.000 fails because they don't have access to the technology that 3:40:55.080 --> 3:40:58.560 the US got from basically sucking up or that China 3:40:58.600 --> 3:41:01.720 got from sucking up to the US, and Kissinger is 3:41:01.800 --> 3:41:03.760 directly responsible for a lot of like a lot of 3:41:03.840 --> 3:41:07.680 these technology transfers, and for this, Kissinger is labeled as 3:41:07.879 --> 3:41:10.040 as like as a friend of the Chinese people like this, 3:41:10.200 --> 3:41:11.840 This is literally the way that it's talked about in 3:41:12.040 --> 3:41:15.960 the Chinese media, and even sort of beyond just him 3:41:16.000 --> 3:41:18.040 being labeled like a friend of the Chinese people, like 3:41:18.320 --> 3:41:22.600 he is like Okay, so there's like one or two 3:41:22.840 --> 3:41:26.280 other Americans who you can sort of like publicly express 3:41:26.360 --> 3:41:29.200 admiration for. Who are people who like effectively defected the 3:41:29.280 --> 3:41:31.080 China or just move to China and like we're there 3:41:31.120 --> 3:41:35.320 for the revolution. But those aren't like major figures, right, 3:41:35.560 --> 3:41:38.160 Like they're like communist journalists or stuff like that, or 3:41:38.320 --> 3:41:41.960 like anthropologists, like they're not. This is the first like 3:41:42.120 --> 3:41:44.760 actual public American figure that you were allowed and you 3:41:44.800 --> 3:41:47.320 are encouraged to be like yay, this guy fucking rules. 3:41:48.720 --> 3:41:50.880 And in a very short amount of time, Kissinger becomes 3:41:51.800 --> 3:41:54.440 enormously popular as the man who you know, he's the 3:41:54.440 --> 3:41:57.480 guy who restored Chinese American relations. He's the guy who 3:41:57.560 --> 3:41:59.600 allowed all these people to see to see their families 3:41:59.640 --> 3:42:01.680 and the saytion to terror regime I mean he doesn't 3:42:02.120 --> 3:42:05.040 actually end them, but he's helping people work around them, 3:42:05.080 --> 3:42:09.720 and the sanctions eventually sort of come down. But you know, 3:42:10.280 --> 3:42:13.560 all of this comes with the price. And this brings 3:42:13.680 --> 3:42:17.000 us to another Kissinger crime, which is a Kissinger in 3:42:17.040 --> 3:42:21.560 the coup against Chile's democratically elected president Salvadur Ayende. So 3:42:21.760 --> 3:42:25.120 this coup is fully green lit by the US, like 3:42:25.280 --> 3:42:28.000 Kissinger is involved with it. Pinochet is going to murder 3:42:28.000 --> 3:42:29.880 forty thousand Chilans. We talked about this on the show 3:42:29.920 --> 3:42:33.039 a few times before, but what we haven't really talked 3:42:33.040 --> 3:42:36.440 about much is that after this, after the coup, Chile 3:42:36.600 --> 3:42:38.840 is like completely diplomatically isolated. No one wants anything to 3:42:38.879 --> 3:42:43.199 do with them because this just like maybe like absolute maniac, 3:42:43.280 --> 3:42:46.880 massive murderer has just deposed like a sovereign government. Like 3:42:46.959 --> 3:42:50.000 even like the even the UK like won't like refuses 3:42:50.040 --> 3:42:52.280 to like talk to them, right like like and when 3:42:52.360 --> 3:42:55.200 when like the Brits won't talk to you because you've 3:42:55.240 --> 3:42:56.240 done too many crimes? 3:42:57.080 --> 3:43:00.400 Yeah, yeah, you've really fucked it there, like the guys 3:43:00.440 --> 3:43:04.000 who who's prime Minister's son living doing coups? 3:43:05.080 --> 3:43:09.160 Yeah, but there is one country other than the US 3:43:09.320 --> 3:43:11.400 that will do that, will that will like do that, 3:43:11.440 --> 3:43:14.720 will make deals with Pinochet. And that country is China, 3:43:15.640 --> 3:43:20.120 and China funny funnels millions of dollars like to some 3:43:20.440 --> 3:43:23.120 literally to Pinochet directly and to the Chilean government. And 3:43:23.160 --> 3:43:25.240 this is a time where China is not rich, but 3:43:25.360 --> 3:43:28.680 and this is millions of dollars like in in like 3:43:28.800 --> 3:43:31.520 nineteen seventies money. It's it's a lot of money. And 3:43:31.920 --> 3:43:34.440 and China is absolutely broke, and they're fucking sending it 3:43:34.560 --> 3:43:38.240 to and they're they're sending it to fucking Pinochet, and 3:43:38.400 --> 3:43:40.680 like and and like to get a sense of how 3:43:40.840 --> 3:43:43.959 weird this stuff is in China, right, Like a lot 3:43:44.000 --> 3:43:46.520 of people in China think that Pinochet is a socialist 3:43:47.320 --> 3:43:49.840 because he's being portrayed positively in the Chinese media, so 3:43:49.879 --> 3:43:51.880 they assume that he's a socialist. Like this is the 3:43:51.959 --> 3:43:54.280 kind of shit that's like just the absolute brain worms 3:43:54.320 --> 3:43:57.000 that are happening in China at this point, because they're 3:43:57.040 --> 3:44:00.640 their connection to the outside world is really really tenuous, 3:44:00.640 --> 3:44:03.960 and the Chinese media is suddenly gassing up all of 3:44:04.080 --> 3:44:11.880 these just like horrific right wing dictators. Now, as as 3:44:12.000 --> 3:44:14.959 Kissinger Star sends in China, the CCP begins pulling its 3:44:15.000 --> 3:44:18.480 own kissingers. So this is this is a this is 3:44:18.920 --> 3:44:22.359 a kind of a story we only learned about pretty recently, 3:44:22.560 --> 3:44:25.040 I think in like the last two years. Being Japing 3:44:25.240 --> 3:44:28.280 was the first like Chinese communist leader to visit the US. 3:44:28.400 --> 3:44:31.240 And so he got he's in Washington, DC, and he 3:44:32.040 --> 3:44:34.199 takes time out of his schedule to have a secret 3:44:34.320 --> 3:44:36.879 meeting with the CIA where he goes to the CIA 3:44:37.040 --> 3:44:40.200 office to set up like list to set up CIA 3:44:40.320 --> 3:44:42.680 listening posts in China to spy on the USSR. 3:44:44.959 --> 3:44:46.720 And one of the. 3:44:46.720 --> 3:44:49.160 Products of this, you know, so that that's that's the 3:44:49.240 --> 3:44:51.400 sort of low level stuff that Chine is getting involved with. 3:44:51.440 --> 3:44:53.640 The high level stuff is in nineteen seventy nine, China 3:44:53.640 --> 3:44:55.920 invades Vietnam. They killed tens of thousands of people, They 3:44:55.959 --> 3:45:01.920 devastate both the Chinese and music economy. And this is 3:45:02.080 --> 3:45:04.600 one of the things that you know, this is a 3:45:04.680 --> 3:45:08.480 decisive thing in the Cold War, Right, China has like 3:45:09.840 --> 3:45:14.200 Donna Kissinger, They've invaded fucking they've invaded Vietnam. Yeah, and 3:45:14.320 --> 3:45:15.840 you know, and one of the one of the sort 3:45:15.840 --> 3:45:18.120 of modern iterations of this right has been you know, 3:45:18.200 --> 3:45:20.880 there's there's a long period of sort of like China's 3:45:20.879 --> 3:45:23.240 alignment with the US. And one of the other things 3:45:23.280 --> 3:45:27.600 that happens that China like becomes increasingly tied to Israel. 3:45:28.520 --> 3:45:30.400 And this is one of the things that that's like 3:45:30.480 --> 3:45:32.400 true of China to this day is like there are 3:45:32.480 --> 3:45:34.960 a bunch of surveillance cameras in the West Bank that 3:45:35.040 --> 3:45:38.080 are that are that the Israelis used to surveil Palestinians 3:45:38.120 --> 3:45:41.120 that are built in China, right the same the same 3:45:41.160 --> 3:45:44.440 cameras that are being used in shing Jan. A lot 3:45:44.520 --> 3:45:48.520 of like Chinese h what's it called. It was like 3:45:48.720 --> 3:45:52.240 Chinese police sometimes special forces units like trained with Israeli 3:45:52.680 --> 3:45:56.120 like trainers. There's a lot of like they do like 3:45:56.280 --> 3:45:58.880 cow like quote unquote kunter terrorism exchanges and and the 3:45:58.959 --> 3:46:01.840 other big aspect of this is that a huge part 3:46:01.840 --> 3:46:04.120 of the Israeli tech industry and a huge part of 3:46:06.760 --> 3:46:10.039 their sort of like defense complex is fueled directly by 3:46:10.080 --> 3:46:13.560 both Chinese resources and by Chinese raw materials, and also 3:46:13.640 --> 3:46:17.600 by things like transistors that they're importing from China. And 3:46:18.080 --> 3:46:21.280 this is the product of the sort of long arc 3:46:21.480 --> 3:46:24.280 of Kissinger's work in China and Kissinger's work sort of 3:46:24.360 --> 3:46:29.920 peeling off Egypt from the Palestinian like Soviet camp. And 3:46:30.320 --> 3:46:34.800 this ultimately is the price of opening relations with the US. 3:46:34.879 --> 3:46:38.959 It's not a price that's paid by the Chinese ruling class. Instead, 3:46:39.120 --> 3:46:41.879 what happens is that every dissident in China, every fucking 3:46:42.000 --> 3:46:44.440 child in Cambodia, every teenager in these Teamwar and every 3:46:44.520 --> 3:46:48.760 veteran in Vietnam, Mao sells them the fuck out, staying 3:46:48.800 --> 3:46:51.120 Shaw Ping sells them out, ku Chaital sells them out, 3:46:51.240 --> 3:46:53.960 Xijinping sells them out. They take American money, they take 3:46:54.000 --> 3:46:56.480 American technology, They shake hands with Kissinger, and they let 3:46:56.560 --> 3:47:00.280 Bangladesh burn. And for this, Kissinger would remain astead fast 3:47:00.320 --> 3:47:02.920 ally at the Chinese capitalist classes entire life. When the 3:47:03.000 --> 3:47:05.560 CCP butchered the last gas of the Chinese working class 3:47:05.560 --> 3:47:09.920 at Tienemen, Kissinger stood by the CCP and basically is 3:47:10.000 --> 3:47:12.400 one of the few Americans straight out doing pr for them. 3:47:13.600 --> 3:47:15.360 He does it again when China's tried to enter the 3:47:15.400 --> 3:47:18.160 World Trade Organization. He like, this is the last thing 3:47:18.200 --> 3:47:20.840 he was doing before he fucking died, was going it 3:47:20.959 --> 3:47:23.480 was going to China and allying himself for the Chinese 3:47:23.560 --> 3:47:26.160 ruling class. And you know he meets Chijien Ping and 3:47:26.240 --> 3:47:29.320 is greeted as an old friend. And this is how 3:47:29.440 --> 3:47:32.320 you get to the thing that's been happening today, which 3:47:32.440 --> 3:47:36.640 is like all of these Chinese, like the Chinese Foreign Ministry, 3:47:36.920 --> 3:47:39.280 and a bunch of time making Chinese government officials like 3:47:39.920 --> 3:47:42.320 releasing these statements about how doctor Kissinger is a good 3:47:42.360 --> 3:47:47.240 friend of the Chinese people. And this ultimately is what 3:47:47.360 --> 3:47:50.440 Kissinger represents, the prospect of the alliance between the American 3:47:50.520 --> 3:47:52.720 and Chinese capitalist class built on the blood of the 3:47:52.760 --> 3:47:56.640 working class of five continents. It is a world in 3:47:56.680 --> 3:47:58.960 which there is peace and prosperity for the bourgeoisie, where 3:47:58.959 --> 3:48:03.120 there was starvation and death for everyone else. This still, 3:48:03.280 --> 3:48:05.360 to this day is the regime that rules the US, 3:48:05.440 --> 3:48:07.320 it is the regime that rules China. And they are 3:48:07.400 --> 3:48:10.560 being united for one final time in their love of 3:48:10.680 --> 3:48:16.280 one Henry Kissinger. And yeah, that's basically all I've got. 3:48:16.400 --> 3:48:18.440 I guess the last thing I can say is one 3:48:18.480 --> 3:48:20.400 of the things that I think I hope people will 3:48:20.480 --> 3:48:26.200 understand about this is that the way that the American 3:48:27.320 --> 3:48:30.800 left thinks about China, like the way that it the 3:48:30.879 --> 3:48:34.400 way that it's politics function, are completely illegible in China, like, 3:48:34.480 --> 3:48:36.800 there are no like in the US. It is very 3:48:36.840 --> 3:48:40.920 common to have someone who is like pro Palestine, who 3:48:41.080 --> 3:48:46.000 is like socialist, who is like pro LGBTQ like rights, 3:48:46.840 --> 3:48:49.840 who like you know, who considers this selves Nancy imperialist 3:48:49.879 --> 3:48:52.600 who is also pro CCP and also fucking hates Kissinger. 3:48:52.840 --> 3:48:54.960 And this is not a position that exists in China. 3:48:55.080 --> 3:48:58.240 There is nobody like this, nobody, fucking like, no one 3:48:59.120 --> 3:49:00.960 at all believes this because it's just it's a not 3:49:00.959 --> 3:49:03.560 a coherent political position. Is it is an American projection 3:49:04.280 --> 3:49:06.800 of politics on the China because again, meanwhile, like the 3:49:06.840 --> 3:49:08.680 actual thing that's happened in China is because of the 3:49:08.760 --> 3:49:11.960 way the media has covered Kissinger. The thing they covered 3:49:12.160 --> 3:49:15.840 is the normalization of US China relations, and not all 3:49:15.880 --> 3:49:18.240 of the fucking genocides that he did. And so they 3:49:18.320 --> 3:49:21.680 have the same fucking whitewashed view of Kissinger that like 3:49:21.880 --> 3:49:24.480 right wing Americans do and that the American ruling class does. 3:49:27.320 --> 3:49:30.080 And this is truly, truly has been the century of 3:49:30.160 --> 3:49:32.680 Kissinger from twenty three to twenty three. 3:49:33.960 --> 3:49:37.120 But but fuck that, the center of Kissinger is over. 3:49:37.240 --> 3:49:39.760 Now is the century of the social revolution. We're fucking 3:49:39.840 --> 3:49:42.080 going for his ass. We're gonna tear apart everything he 3:49:42.160 --> 3:49:45.320 ever built. That motherfucker's gonna watch from hell as we 3:49:45.400 --> 3:49:49.640 destroy everything he ever created his entire life time. 3:49:50.280 --> 3:49:52.680 That's why we're taking a week off to go to 3:49:52.800 --> 3:49:57.480 Chile and begin the social revolution that Kissinger destroyed again 3:49:58.480 --> 3:49:59.320 as a podcast. 3:50:00.720 --> 3:50:04.840 We we we do now have to choose the new 3:50:05.360 --> 3:50:09.080 most evil person alive. Uh, there's there's been quite a 3:50:09.280 --> 3:50:11.640 there has been quite a few in the running. We 3:50:11.720 --> 3:50:14.400 have we have Chinese up there, obviously, we have uh 3:50:15.160 --> 3:50:16.040 W Bush, we have. 3:50:17.880 --> 3:50:21.680 We have net and Yahoo. We have making a strong 3:50:21.760 --> 3:50:24.760 case right now. Yeah, we have him off. 3:50:24.960 --> 3:50:27.280 Maybe he wanted to take the seat, take the throne. 3:50:28.320 --> 3:50:31.200 Yeah, made a decently strong case. 3:50:31.560 --> 3:50:35.000 Sure, sure there is there is, There is a decent 3:50:35.080 --> 3:50:38.720 list running. I think only time will tell for who 3:50:38.800 --> 3:50:44.280 will truly have a lasting impact of similar evil. But yes, 3:50:44.440 --> 3:50:47.400 that there is now a new new open position for 3:50:47.480 --> 3:50:50.840 most evil person Alive. So many people are throwing their 3:50:50.840 --> 3:50:53.000 hat into the ring. We will see how this contest 3:50:53.040 --> 3:50:53.520 plays out. 3:50:56.640 --> 3:50:59.080 Yeah, and you will. You will hear it when when 3:50:59.120 --> 3:51:01.920 that fucking person dies. You're shirt on this show too, 3:51:04.200 --> 3:51:09.440 and we will enjoy it. Yeah, let's be make it 3:51:09.520 --> 3:51:14.000 up here and go have a good time. Enjoy, Enjoy 3:51:14.640 --> 3:51:16.720 for this, Enjoy. By the time you're hearing this, the 3:51:16.800 --> 3:51:20.040 second ever sunrise in one hundred years that does not 3:51:20.240 --> 3:51:22.720 have Henry Kissinger under it. Yeah. 3:51:23.000 --> 3:51:25.880 Somewhere today, somewhere in the world, a baby has been 3:51:25.960 --> 3:51:29.320 born in a post Kissinger world, and we can we can. 3:51:29.480 --> 3:51:32.440 All the most evil baby has been born and we 3:51:32.560 --> 3:51:34.160 have to heal. Yeah. 3:51:34.560 --> 3:51:38.280 Yeah, somewhere thanks to the cyclops I'm Sarah. Henry Kissinger 3:51:38.440 --> 3:51:38.920 is attack. 3:51:39.360 --> 3:51:39.760 That's right. 3:51:39.840 --> 3:51:42.520 So if you're squeezing out a baby this month, just 3:51:42.720 --> 3:51:43.400 be careful. 3:51:43.720 --> 3:51:44.600 It's all I'm saying. 3:51:48.000 --> 3:51:51.120 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:51:51.240 --> 3:51:53.120 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:51:53.720 --> 3:51:56.080 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 3:51:56.320 --> 3:51:58.960 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:51:59.040 --> 3:52:01.200 cool Zone Media dot or check us out on the 3:52:01.280 --> 3:52:04.680 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:52:05.120 --> 3:52:07.200 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 3:52:07.320 --> 3:52:11.320 monthly at Coolzonemedia dot com, slash sources. Thanks for listening.