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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, Welcome to it could happen here a podcast about

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Speaker 3: things falling apart and also sometimes about how things have

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Speaker 3: been falling apart for a while now. And today we're

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Speaker 3: going to talk about how things were also bad in

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Speaker 3: falling apart in the two thousands, which a profoundly cursed

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Speaker 3: time period. And specifically we're going to talk about I

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Speaker 3: think a part of the anti war movement that does

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Speaker 3: not get much attention, which is the port militarization resistance

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Speaker 3: that happened and sort of two thousand and six, two

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Speaker 3: thousand and seven, and with us today to talk about

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Speaker 3: this is two people who were part of this movement.

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Speaker 3: If Juliana Neuhauser, Hello, hello, and Brendan Maslaska's done, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: both of whom were organizers and activists while this was

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Speaker 3: going on. Yeah, I think, thank you, thank you both

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Speaker 3: for being here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having us so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as I was saying a bit in the intro,

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Speaker 3: I think that this is a part of the anti

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Speaker 3: war movement that is not very well known. I think

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people know about the initial

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Speaker 3: stuff that happened in two thousand and three, and people might

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Speaker 3: know about some of the stuff that was happening against

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Speaker 3: the war in Afghanistan, like right when it started, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think most people know that it like you know,

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Speaker 3: even after a two thousand and three sort doesn't work,

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Speaker 3: that it continues, and then it continues sort of informs

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Speaker 3: that are that are very interesting, and so I guess

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Speaker 3: I want you to to to start out, I want

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Speaker 3: to ask how we sort of got from the early

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Speaker 3: part of the anti war movement into this, and how

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Speaker 3: you she got involved.

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Speaker 5: I would say that there's this narrative about the movement

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Speaker 5: against the word Iraq, that there is the largest protests

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Speaker 5: in human history, at least at that point. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if it's still true against the invasion, and then

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Speaker 5: it didn't work, and everyone kind of went.

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Speaker 3: Home and ended there.

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Speaker 5: And to a certain extent that's true. But like you said,

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Speaker 5: the people that didn't go home went an interesting direction.

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Speaker 5: And so at the time there were direct action was

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Speaker 5: not as acceptable as it is now. This movement was

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Speaker 5: largely dominated either by big liberal coalitions or PSL front

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Speaker 5: groups that were basically indistinguishable in what they actually did,

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Speaker 5: which was basically nothing and in the best of cases

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Speaker 5: and then the worst of cases kind of insurgency. But

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Speaker 5: then there were small groups of people that at when

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Speaker 5: we saw that it didn't work, and we saw that

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Speaker 5: these giant, peaceful marches from one part of town to another,

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Speaker 5: or voting for John Carey or whatever, it didn't work,

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Speaker 5: that we started to look for other options.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I got involved, you know, i'd

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Speaker 4: say with the anti war movement. That idea of how

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Speaker 4: wars unjust was really taught to me from a very

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Speaker 4: young age. I mean, my parents were, you know, children

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Speaker 4: of the sixties, and they had family members fighting in

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Speaker 4: Vietnam and you know, friends dying in Vietnam, and we're

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Speaker 4: against the protests back then. So I grew up here

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Speaker 4: in the stories and of course stories from family members,

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Speaker 4: particularly one of my grandfathers, both of them who were

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Speaker 4: veterans in World War Two. One of them was a

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Speaker 4: marine in the you know, in the Pacific Theater, and

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Speaker 4: still into his seventies, eighties and nineties until his final days,

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Speaker 4: was just dealing with horrific PTSD and had always taught

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Speaker 4: me from young age never to get involved. So I,

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Speaker 4: you know, and I remember when when the very clearly,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm sure it's on everyone's minds now, and

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Speaker 4: when the invasion of Afghanistan started, when the invasion of

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Speaker 4: I Rock started, I was at that massive demonstration in Washington,

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Speaker 4: d C. That Juliana just mentioned, and I ended up.

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Speaker 4: I'm from Utica, New York. I went to a rural

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Speaker 4: high school just outside of Utica, you know, russ Bell

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Speaker 4: generally speaking, impoverished and also very conservative area of New York.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I had the recruiters bothering me, military

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Speaker 4: recruiters in high school, recruiting my friends, and they were

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Speaker 4: just everywhere in the hallways. So it was very present

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Speaker 4: with me when I was younger. I moved out to Olympia, Washington,

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Speaker 4: two thousand and six, and that's one a new student

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Speaker 4: activist group, Students for Democratic Society was launched. That's how

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Speaker 4: Julianna and I first met. We were both in separate

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Speaker 4: chapters of that new organization in the Pacific Northwest, and

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Speaker 4: the protests started just a few months after I moved

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Speaker 4: out there in Olympia in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 3: So wait declared for this or second because I've never

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Speaker 3: quite been clear in this history. So there was a

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Speaker 3: second SD, like Students for Democratic Society that was like

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Speaker 3: unrelated to the first one.

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Speaker 5: Born briefly at the end of the bushop Master.

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Speaker 3: That explains a lot of things that are you.

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Speaker 4: Baffling, We're not that old. Yeah, we're definitely in the

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Speaker 4: in the second you know, the rebirth of it, So

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Speaker 4: you know, I think it took on some things in spirit,

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Speaker 4: you know, but also was i'd say different in many ways,

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Speaker 4: and it was very active to me at least, it

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Speaker 4: was very exciting to be a member of the New

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Speaker 4: STS because they're over a dozen chapters in the Pacific Northwest,

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Speaker 4: and it was a great way to connect with young

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Speaker 4: activists all over the US.

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Speaker 3: So SDS is emerging in this time period. One of

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Speaker 3: the other things I was interested about is something something

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Speaker 3: you were talking about in the early part of this,

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Speaker 3: which has to do with the way that these giant

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Speaker 3: both the sort of answer coalition PSL Frank Group and

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Speaker 3: I guess the ISO was still around back then coalitions

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Speaker 3: work versus how like anything else worked on. So was

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Speaker 3: was SDS sort of like consciously set up and in

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Speaker 3: opposition to those groups?

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Speaker 5: I don't think it was conscious, but there was just

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Speaker 5: like I mean these days, I mean, like there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of controversy around PSL with like anarchist versus tanky politics.

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Speaker 5: None of that mattered at that time, Like, none of

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Speaker 5: that mattered. The only thing that mattered was the answer,

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Speaker 5: which was the PSL Front Group was completely fucking useless.

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Speaker 5: Like they completely indistinguishable from any peace police liberal Democratic

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Speaker 5: Front group. There was literally no difference, just in terms

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Speaker 5: of their esthetics maybe like is there a donkey or

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Speaker 5: a hammer and sickle on something. That's the only difference

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Speaker 5: we saw. So I don't I don't think there was.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't There wasn't like a conscious like political opposite

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Speaker 5: attention to it. It was just like they're not doing anything,

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Speaker 5: and so we had to look in another direction.

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Speaker 4: Actually, you know, it's hard to keep track of the

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Speaker 4: alphabet soup of authoritary communist groups at times. But this

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Speaker 4: was actually answer for those who don't recall, it was

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Speaker 4: a front group for the Workers World Party the w which, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean it's it's hard to keep track, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's the same thing, like.

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Speaker 3: I think, so okay, So for people who are sort

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Speaker 3: of unaware of this, there's a network of connected but

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Speaker 3: sometimes feuding like weird stalinist cults that kind of kind

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Speaker 3: of like they hold on through like the set of

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Speaker 3: the eighties and nineties and they start sort of rebuilding

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Speaker 3: again around the anti war movements in that period. That

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Speaker 3: that's the PSL's the WOP. That's answer like, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's like most like modern anti war groups are

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Speaker 3: also still these people, which is incredibly depressing.

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Speaker 1: Something.

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Speaker 3: Want to talk a bit about it towards the end

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Speaker 3: of this, but yeah, just for people who have not

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Speaker 3: spent like the last half decade the in the trenches

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Speaker 3: of extremely weird anti war politics. So yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: think we should get into how the sort of the

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Speaker 3: first action starts in a limb.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, and there were actually a couple actions that

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Speaker 4: happened in the year preceding that, you know, before I

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Speaker 4: moved out to Olympia in two thousand and six. It

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Speaker 4: was not yet under the banner of PMR Port Militarization Resistance.

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Speaker 4: That was a name that was officially coined in you know,

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Speaker 4: in May and June of two thousand and six. And

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Speaker 4: so just to give you an idea, Olympias it's a

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Speaker 4: college town, or at the Evergreen State College is there.

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Speaker 4: It's also the capital of Washington State, so you have

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Speaker 4: that going on. It's also a military town. It's a

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Speaker 4: little over twenty miles south of what we called Fort Lewis.

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Speaker 4: It's now called JBLM j BLUM or Joint Base Lewis McCord.

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Speaker 4: It's an Army and Air Force base. Now it's one base.

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Speaker 4: So you had all these you know, different kind of

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Speaker 4: elements in you know, in tandem in that town and

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Speaker 4: the public port. The Port of Olympia is one of

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Speaker 4: about seventy or so public ports in the state of Washington,

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Speaker 4: some of which are I mean, they're used for all

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Speaker 4: kinds of things, you know, for our commercial, private industry,

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Speaker 4: but also the military and the US government. So, you know,

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Speaker 4: I heard from someone I don't even remember who that

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Speaker 4: the military was sending a ship to the Port of

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Speaker 4: Olympia in late May of two thousand and six, and

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Speaker 4: this happened for ten or so days, and it was

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Speaker 4: just kind of a natural instinct for a whole bunch

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Speaker 4: of us to go down to the Port of Olympia.

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Speaker 4: It was the war machine in our backyard, and the

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Speaker 4: idea was to just block the vehicles. It started out

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Speaker 4: with just like less than ten people, a number of

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Speaker 4: folks getting arrested, and that very rapidly culminated into larger

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Speaker 4: protests every single day, an act of blockades people those

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Speaker 4: of us like Julian and myself and other folks using

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Speaker 4: civil disobedience or what we preferred to call civil resistance

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Speaker 4: to try and stop or at the very le slow

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Speaker 4: down these striker vehicles and to give folks an idea

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Speaker 4: of what a striker vehicle is. You can look it

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Speaker 4: up online, but it's kind of halfway between. You know,

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Speaker 4: a tank in a hum vy doesn't have the slacks

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Speaker 4: you know that a tank would have. It's you know.

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Speaker 4: And they were being used in both Iraq and Afghanistan

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Speaker 4: for raids of residential areas. They were really on the

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Speaker 4: front lines of the war in both those countries, and

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Speaker 4: that's what we were trying to stop.

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Speaker 5: I only got involved later because I wasn't living in

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Speaker 5: Olympia at the time. I was in another STS chapter,

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Speaker 5: but my roommate was from Olympia and he had been

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Speaker 5: involved in that first round of protests in Olympia before

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Speaker 5: moving up to Balingham. Yeah, and so like hearing his story,

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Speaker 5: it's got me very excited because just like, finally someone's

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Speaker 5: someone's doing something like someone's they're not.

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Speaker 3: Just like.

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Speaker 5: It's like everything else was just so liberal, like whether

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Speaker 5: it's marching from one place to another or writing to

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Speaker 5: your congress people or occupying their office. It was like

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Speaker 5: asking someone else to do something which you knew from

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Speaker 5: the beginning they were never going to do. Yeah, and

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Speaker 5: finally this is finally someone was like actually getting into it.

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Speaker 5: I think the first one of the things that happened

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Speaker 5: here was that they started to avoid that there's there's

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Speaker 5: kind of a geographical thing that I think for people

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Speaker 5: who either don't know was Washington or because they're normal

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Speaker 5: people don't know like the port.

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Speaker 3: Areas of these news very.

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Speaker 5: Well, because it's like like unless you're a long shoreman,

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Speaker 5: like why would you go down to like the port

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Speaker 5: of Tacoma. Yeah, yeah, but uh, they kept moving it

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Speaker 5: around because Olympia is also not very big and so

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Speaker 5: it's there's really only two roads into the port, which

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Speaker 5: is very small, and so it was it's very easy

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Speaker 5: to block it. And so then I think the first

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Speaker 5: time that I got involved was in two thousands seven

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Speaker 5: when they had moved it because they kept moving it

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Speaker 5: around to try and switch things up and.

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Speaker 3: Wait before they're they're the ship around.

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Speaker 5: Is No, it's like they had to make a military shipment.

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Speaker 5: They would It's like like once the ship wasn't the port,

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Speaker 5: they would just have to go through with it. Then

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Speaker 5: you know, it's like every every six months or so,

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Speaker 5: they had to make another military shipment and they would

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Speaker 5: change the port usually each time to try and let

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Speaker 5: basically to avoid us. It doesn't seem like this is

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Speaker 5: like normal past. Yeah. The first time I had gone

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Speaker 5: down was in the Coma, which is a much much

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Speaker 5: much more industrialized port than Olympia. It's you know, it's

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Speaker 5: like a big port, more normal port, I guess, And

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Speaker 5: that one was honestly pretty crazy because you're just trapped

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Speaker 5: in this giant industrial maze basically at the mercy of

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Speaker 5: the riot cops. The best success we had was definitely

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Speaker 5: at the Port of Olympia. I think the in two

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Speaker 5: thousand and seven in Olympia was definitely and it's like

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Speaker 5: the glory moment, which was when people were able to

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Speaker 5: on and off like actually hold the port and control

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Speaker 5: it in the a An exits.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I want to, you know, just emphasize that

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Speaker 4: like the one the military changing their approach right to

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Speaker 4: avoid us so jumping from port to port with these

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Speaker 4: different shipments. They actually went so far because we were

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Speaker 4: so successful as a movement in the Pacific Northwest to

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Speaker 4: ship striker vehicles by rail out of the Pacific Northwest

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Speaker 4: and even going so far as to ports in Texas.

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Speaker 4: But you know, one thing that we did is that

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Speaker 4: we built up contacts with other activists with long short

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Speaker 4: workers all up and down the West coast in California.

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Speaker 4: There are other activists we are connected with in Texas, Hawaii,

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Speaker 4: New Jersey, and New York. There is a desire in

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Speaker 4: the anti war movement and you know, in some extent

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Speaker 4: maybe it's like it was small, but with some folks

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Speaker 4: in the labor movement, especially in Oakland where the ISLWU

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Speaker 4: the you know, longshore Workers Union. It's a lot more

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Speaker 4: militant than say in a place like Olympia. Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean people wanted to replicate this model because, as

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Speaker 4: Juliana said, we wore successful in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 4: we shut down the port of Olympia for a total

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Speaker 4: of it was essentially two days. They were not they're

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Speaker 4: not shipping anything in or out. We set up blockades.

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Speaker 4: We're willing to throw down with the police in the street.

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Speaker 5: And one of the things that was cool about that

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Speaker 5: blockade is that one of the there's two entrances, like

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Speaker 5: I said, and one was completely blockaded, and then the

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Speaker 5: other one we had like a moving I don't really

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Speaker 5: know what it was, but something with wheels that we

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Speaker 5: could move in and out to open it up, and

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Speaker 5: so then we could allow like civilian cargo to move

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Speaker 5: in and out, but then like we would feel it

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Speaker 5: back in place to block military shipments.

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Speaker 3: So we were you able to actually like stop them

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Speaker 3: from like wet while in that wanted to come, actually

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Speaker 3: like stop them from moving your stuff altogether, or do

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Speaker 3: you actually cleared up by the police and they moved it, it.

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Speaker 5: Would eventually get cleared out by the police. It's like

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Speaker 5: we were never able to. It's like we were we

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Speaker 5: we held it for two days. That those protests took

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Speaker 5: place over a series of two weeks or more or less.

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Speaker 5: We were only able to fully hold it for two

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Speaker 5: days before eventually they would peer us out. But one

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Speaker 5: of the things is that this does it did create

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Speaker 5: problems for the army because when you work with a port,

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Speaker 5: you know, it's like you've got like a certain timeframe

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Speaker 5: that you've contracted with the port to do whatever it

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Speaker 5: is is you're going to do, and it's not too

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Speaker 5: happy if you take longer than you said.

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Speaker 3: You would or yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing I want to add is, you know,

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Speaker 4: I think the other really important element with this whole

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Speaker 4: movement going on is the Pacific Northwest was it is

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Speaker 4: specifically western Washington, where the two of us were living.

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Speaker 4: It was it was, uh, you know, the center and

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Speaker 4: in a sense it was the heart of the anti

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Speaker 4: war movement in the country at that time. One because

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Speaker 4: of this militant direct action that we were, you know,

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Speaker 4: we were building up in the streets and trying to

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Speaker 4: throw a wrench in the gears of the war machine

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Speaker 4: to to at the very least slow it down. Which

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Speaker 4: in some ways we did, but you know, we were

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Speaker 4: up against so much. But the other added element, of course,

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Speaker 4: is the g I resistance and the soldiers who are

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Speaker 4: resisting I've all also known as the Rock Veterans against

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Speaker 4: the War was very active there. They set up a

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Speaker 4: GI coffeehouse across you know, literally across the street, uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, the the gates for one of the entrances

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Speaker 4: for Fort Lewis. There are a whole bunch of soldiers

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Speaker 4: that were going a wall. We had friends who were

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Speaker 4: active duty soldiers who had fought in you know, Iraq

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Speaker 4: and Afghanistan that were a wall and they were hiding,

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Speaker 4: you know, refusing to go back into these striker brigades

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Speaker 4: that joined us in port militarization resistance. There are a

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Speaker 4: whole you know, long list of soldiers that were very

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Speaker 4: publicly saying, you know, I'm refusing to fight in Iraq

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Speaker 4: or Afghanistan for you know, various reasons. And so we

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Speaker 4: are very much connected with this movement too, and I

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Speaker 4: think the higher ups in the military they're they're hyper

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Speaker 4: aware of that. They studied us very well, you know,

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Speaker 4: to the point of actually spying on us. So that's

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Speaker 4: like a whole other element of the story too.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that I've heard from talking

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Speaker 3: to other people who were involved in this was that like, wow,

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Speaker 3: like during these protests, like the level of police militarization

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Speaker 3: just like skyrocketed, and like I remember, I was you

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Speaker 3: faid about this. It was like, you know, if you

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Speaker 3: go back and look at like old system of a

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Speaker 3: down videos, you know, they'll have these things, Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: you'll see these you see these riot police and like

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Speaker 3: you look at them and it's like these people they

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Speaker 3: look so much less armored than like the people that

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Speaker 3: we have now. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: thought was interesting about this was that like this is

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Speaker 3: I think one of the points where you start getting

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Speaker 3: the modern riot police showing up, but that are just like,

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Speaker 3: you know, completely concased in like armor. And yeah, I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about just like the police response to this,

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Speaker 3: because I think that's that's another thing I think. I

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Speaker 3: think there's no there's a kind of a tendency to

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Speaker 3: sort of project back what the police look like in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, just onto the whole history of police,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's like it's it's it's gotten worse

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Speaker 3: even in the last twenty years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so I live downtown in Olympia and

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Speaker 4: probably just like a six minute walk away from the

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Speaker 4: Port of Olympia and also very conveniently just a few

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Speaker 4: blocks away from the police station. So so lucky.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: So we actually saw, you know, we could see from

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Speaker 4: the front of down on the road, down on the

355
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Speaker 4: sidewalk from the front of our house. Uh, some of

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Speaker 4: the military shipments going by. And we we did see

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Speaker 4: that absolutely, and at times it was it was terrifying.

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Speaker 4: I mean I lived in an activist house we jokingly

359
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Speaker 4: called HQ because that's just you know, where it because

360
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Speaker 4: of its proximity to the port. That's where a number

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Speaker 4: of us were having meetings, uh, you know, around these

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Speaker 4: protests early on in two thousand and six. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean we like they look like RoboCop and it's

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Speaker 4: something I had I you know, I hadn't like I

365
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Speaker 4: had been to like mass marches and demonstrations like the

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Speaker 4: RNC protests and DNC protests in Boston, New York and

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Speaker 4: like in Washington, d c uh and so I would

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Speaker 4: see these like riot cops, but they were I mean

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Speaker 4: ubiquitous in these port protests. It was like a whole

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Speaker 4: army of them that was sent out. I mean when

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Speaker 4: Juliana said that things got kind of crazy at the

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Speaker 4: Port of Tacoma protests, I mean there was like a

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Speaker 4: police riot, you know, like the cops went absolutely nuts there,

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Speaker 4: shooting people with tear gas and pepper balls and brutalizing people.

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Speaker 4: I had never before witnessed anything like that. And it

376
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Speaker 4: got to the point in you know, in Olympia where

377
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Speaker 4: we kind of knew early on that we were being

378
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Speaker 4: traced by the police to the extent where, you know,

379
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Speaker 4: one friend of ours was followed from our house to

380
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Speaker 4: the bus station to take a bus to school by

381
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Speaker 4: the police and then was stopped and essentially assaulted by

382
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Speaker 4: them on the street. And we had another fellow activists,

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Speaker 4: and you know, a roommate of mine who was going

384
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Speaker 4: out to driving out with a few friends, a few

385
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Speaker 4: fellow activists from Olympia to Aberdeen, about an hour's drive.

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Speaker 4: So Aberdeen, there's a port of grays Harbor there, pretty

387
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Speaker 4: conservative small town. It's where Kirk Cobain is from.

388
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Speaker 5: Home of the famous Kurt Cobain teamed McDonald's.

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Speaker 4: Uh, they served billions and and billions served in that

390
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Speaker 4: one McDonald's and Kirk Cobain's McDonald's. But yeah, I mean

391
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Speaker 4: they you know, they they were they were following. They

392
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Speaker 4: had orders the Washington State Patrol two, you know, pull

393
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Speaker 4: over a car ful full of known anarchists. There was

394
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Speaker 4: alert gone out to all the police departments. They pulled them,

395
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Speaker 4: They pulled them over, They made him walk the line.

396
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Speaker 4: He was hadn't you know, wasn't drinking at no drugs

397
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Speaker 4: like nothing in his system. But they he was driving

398
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Speaker 4: under like one mile per hour under the speed limit.

399
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Speaker 4: They arrested him for duh d W I you know,

400
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Speaker 4: eventually fought the chargers sued them, uh and you know

401
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 4: what a big settlement out of all that. But that's

402
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Speaker 4: just one example of many of the lengths that the

403
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Speaker 4: police would go to. It was pretty severe. Even there's

404
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Speaker 4: a house of a bunch of anarchist younger anarchists called

405
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Speaker 4: the pitch Pipe Info Shop in Tacoma, and that was

406
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Speaker 4: also a big target. The police were swarming around them

407
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Speaker 4: all the time.

408
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Speaker 5: They had like cameras set up like specifically just outside

409
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Speaker 5: the info shop, like there weren't surrounds cameras there before.

410
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Speaker 5: But then there's like, oh well just conveniently put them

411
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Speaker 5: on this one specific street corner.

412
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think like those One of the things I

413
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Speaker 3: was reading about this is you have that stuff. And

414
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Speaker 3: then also I think one of the sturiest parts of

415
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Speaker 3: this is that like army intelligence gets involved and yeah,

416
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Speaker 3: do you want to talk about the man named quote

417
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Speaker 3: unquote John Jacob, who was in fact not.

418
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Speaker 4: That Yeah, so you know, I'm curious what memories you

419
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Speaker 4: have of our our good dear friend John Jacob Juliana.

420
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Speaker 4: I don't think I ever actually knew him in person,

421
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Speaker 4: but he was the moderator of the list serve, wasn't he. Yes,

422
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Speaker 4: he's one of the moderators of our listsers.

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Speaker 5: Now that I look back on it, I'm like the

424
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Speaker 5: apartmentalization resistance the SYRUP was always just like this dramatic

425
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Speaker 5: shit show. It's like, looking back on it, I was like, oh,

426
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Speaker 5: by a cop that did nothing, absolutely nothing to like

427
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Speaker 5: establish order or uh it was on purpose.

428
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think there's definitely some things that happened, Like,

429
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Speaker 4: you know, looking back from our vantage point today, it's like, Okay,

430
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 4: things make a little more sense at the time though,

431
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Speaker 4: And we're in this movement, right, and so that means

432
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Speaker 4: like meeting people where they're at. We would find all

433
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Speaker 4: kinds of people that would like want to join the

434
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Speaker 4: movement like I like I said earlier, like active duty

435
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Speaker 4: soldiers that were joining. So I met this guy named

436
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 4: John Jacob and he sent an email out to me.

437
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 4: I was one of the contacts for the Olympia STS group,

438
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 4: and it's like, hey, you know there's kind of like

439
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 4: a parent organization that's some old like elder activists are

440
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 4: in to kind of mentor us called Movement for a

441
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: Democratic Society. Very small, never really took off, but like

442
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 4: I'm interested in getting involved. We met up in public

443
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 4: and he seemed like an alright guy. I mean he was,

444
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 4: you know, forty ish early forties. He told me had

445
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: like you know, been in the military for years, and

446
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 4: he actually still worked at Fort Lewis, so he was

447
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 4: always open about that, but it only went that far.

448
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: He didn't ever tell us what he actually did there,

449
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 4: and it wasn't abnormal for you know, we had many

450
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 4: folks that worked active duty you know, on base and

451
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 4: civilian civilian roles or soldiers. As I mentioned that, we're

452
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 4: in port militarization resistance. So he gets involved and he

453
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 4: gets really involved with port militarization resistance. He goes to protests,

454
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 4: he gets pretty close with this group of anarchists I

455
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 4: mentioned who lived in Tacoma, and he seemed like a

456
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: really solid guy to most of us. And you know,

457
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 4: things happens as we progress, and you know, as the

458
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: military responded to our you know how effective we were

459
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 4: in the anti war movement and the GI resistance movement

460
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 4: by changing their tactics. We noticed that, Okay, when we

461
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 4: first started the protests, we had the ability to catch

462
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: the police by surprise by setting up, you know, a

463
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 4: blockade here, or having a surprise action there at this

464
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 4: time or this port, et cetera, et cetera. And as

465
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 4: time progressed, we found out that, you know, we were

466
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 4: having these making these decisions for tactics in our strategy.

467
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 4: We thought that we're in private and then for whatever reason,

468
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 4: the police kind of knew about where we were going

469
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 4: to be before we even showed up. And that I

470
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 4: remember that clearly happening in two thousand and seven the

471
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: Port of Olympia.

472
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, in Takoma. There is a lot of things like that,

473
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 5: Like there was one time when there are like some

474
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 5: people who had a meeting in a closed room. Like

475
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 5: all their they had taken, like the batteries out of

476
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 5: their cell phones. They had simply written on the whiteboard

477
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 5: the time and place they were going to have their

478
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 5: next meeting, which is going to be in a diner

479
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 5: near the port. And so that way, if like if

480
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 5: for any reason the room was bugged, it wouldn't be

481
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 5: caught up because it was just written on a board.

482
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 5: And then it was like a small meeting too, so

483
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 5: it's like there weren't and then when they got to

484
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 5: that diner, there's like full of cops like clearly waiting

485
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 5: for them. Like at that point, it's like it was

486
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: very clear there was some level of infiltration involved.

487
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think were from early on, like you know,

488
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: we we knew our history. I mean, you know, one

489
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: of our fellow activists in PMRS and a friend of ours,

490
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: Peter Bohmer, is a professor at the Evergreen State College.

491
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: He was in the original STS back in the sixties,

492
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 4: and you know, he was essentially a political prisoner for

493
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 4: a couple of years in both Massachusetts and California. I mean,

494
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 4: the Feds essentially tried to assassinate them back in the

495
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 4: seventies when he was active in the anti war movement

496
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 4: in San Diego. Like, we knew, you know, former Black Panthers,

497
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 4: and we read our history, so we knew about the

498
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 4: history of co intel pro the counterintelligence program of the

499
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 4: sixties and seventies, and the war on the anti war

500
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 4: and civil rights and black power, American Indian movements, et cetera.

501
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: So we knew, you know, just intuitively early on. But

502
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 4: there was one thing that happened in particular which prompted

503
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: some of us to file for a public records request

504
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 4: with the City of Olympia. And another activist is walking

505
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 4: down the street in Olympia. I'm a member of the

506
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 4: Wobblys and Dustal Workers of the World Union, and we

507
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 4: had like one of those metal newspaper boxes downtown and

508
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: it was locked to a poll, you know, with a

509
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 4: bike lock. And there are some city workers there with

510
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 4: a pickup truck and they're cutting the lock to the

511
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 4: paper box and they threw it in their pickup truck,

512
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: and so, you know, this friend of ours was there

513
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: was like, what the hell, what are you doing? What's

514
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 4: going on? And one of the workers just kind of

515
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: shrugged and was like, I don't know, the police told

516
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: us to do this, and they drove off like they

517
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: stole you know, our essentially like our union property or whatever.

518
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 4: So we had you know, our our lawyer friend Larry

519
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 4: Hildes and the National Lawyer's Guild you know, call and

520
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 4: kind of threatened the city and and then a number

521
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 4: of us got together were like, hey, you know, let's

522
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 4: do like a public records request with the City of

523
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: Olympia freedom of information law right, and so we did.

524
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: And the request was, you know, just requesting any all

525
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: information the city had any exchanges communications by email, et

526
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: cetera between the police and like other agencies about anarchists,

527
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: I WW students for a Democratic Society, And their initial

528
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: search that the city clerk did yielded something like thirty

529
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: thousand responses. So she's like, okay, I got to narrow

530
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: this down. And I don't know, I was working on

531
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: the request at the time, and for some reason, like

532
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 4: I don't know, we're port protests, we're near a military base,

533
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: communications between the army, not thinking anything, and so the

534
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: initial responses it actually got you know, maybe one hundred,

535
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty or so different documents, just copies

536
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 4: of emails, et cetera, that we're little puzzle pieces for

537
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: this massive puzzle. And it was just a few of them,

538
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 4: and it was, you know, there was an email talking

539
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 4: about our guy in the Navy going to a PMR

540
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 4: meeting to get some intel. There's you know, all kinds

541
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 4: of things like that. There were a few emails in particular,

542
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 4: and the email address was something like John John J.

543
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 4: Towery at you know, Army dot us whatever the email

544
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 4: address was. So there's a crew of active that got together,

545
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 4: put their heads together, did some research quietly for a

546
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 4: few months, and eventually found out by publicly accessible information

547
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: like voter registration records and also finding out something about

548
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: like a motorcycle club called like the I don't know,

549
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: like the Brown Butte Club or the Brown Butt Club

550
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 4: or something and the like. Found out that this John

551
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: Towery guy that was in this motorcycle club and had

552
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 4: his you know, was registered to vote outside of Tacoma

553
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: in this town there. It was actually John Jacob. It

554
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 4: was this guy that we thought was a fellow activist,

555
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 4: an anarchist and a friend, you know, I thought he

556
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 4: was a personal friend of mine. Turns out he was

557
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: actually essentially an Army intelligence officer working for something called

558
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 4: a Force Protection Unit at Joint Face Joint based Lewis McCord,

559
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 4: and also working with a whole list of different agencies

560
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 4: and what turned out to be like a man massive

561
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: surveillance network that was national in scope. This guy was

562
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 4: sent by the Army along with many others to infiltrate us,

563
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 4: to spy on us, and to disrupt us was huge.

564
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's one of the things that I've always

565
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: thought it was really interesting about this is like, so,

566
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 3: like I learned about port militarization resistance basically because I

567
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: was like poking around the history of like informants and

568
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: I ran into this and I was like what because

569
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: And then that was what I thought. One of the

570
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: things I thought was really interesting about this is that like,

571
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: like I think that this chapter of the anti war

572
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: movement is even on the left, is like not very

573
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: well known, but like the serious dis is which the

574
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: Army seems to have taken it is really remarkable. Yeah,

575
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: I'm wondering what you think about that.

576
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: One thing we have to emphasize is is that we

577
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: were not a large group of people. Yeah, Like the

578
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 5: number of people who are actively involved in Port military

579
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 5: I guess ressistance at its speak was at how many

580
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 5: people do you think it was, Brandon.

581
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 4: Well, it depends. I mean I'd say they're proudbably like

582
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 4: at its peak, maybe probably four to fifty people that

583
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: would like consistently show up to things, you know, maybe

584
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 4: a slightly smaller, very core group, but we would have

585
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 4: demonstrations with like and then like four hundred people, you know.

586
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like that would be like the max like

587
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 5: there is It's like there were like the peaceful like

588
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 5: kind of like support actions, you know, you would get

589
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 5: like a couple hundred people, and then like for the

590
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 5: stuff like where it's like the first night that that

591
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 5: the part of the entrance to the part of Olympia

592
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 5: was occupied, it would be like like forty to fifty people.

593
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 5: These were not These were not very large groups of people.

594
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 5: I feel like, and like I said, it's like one

595
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 5: thing that we need to keep in mind was that

596
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 5: the peace police were much stronger back then than they

597
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 5: are now nowadays. Like as we saw last year, it's

598
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 5: like people of learned to throw down, but that was

599
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 5: not the case at the time. And so this is

600
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: a very very small group of people, and I think

601
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 5: we accomplished a lot from with how small it was.

602
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 5: If it had been larger, it would have accomplished way more.

603
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: But even.

604
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 5: That small core of like forty to fifty people with

605
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 5: maybe expanding out to like a larger group of a

606
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 5: couple hundred, had them that scared that they went that

607
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 5: far to try and disrupt it.

608
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is one of the things I've been

609
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: thinking about a lot recently. Of this has seas to

610
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: be a very consistent thing, which is that like the

611
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: two things that are guaranteed to like just have a

612
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: hammer drop on you if you touch them is pipelines

613
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: and ports. And that was something you know, we've talked

614
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: a lot on here about pipeline protests, but I was

615
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 3: interested in what you two think about, because, Yeah, this

616
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: this is like a very particular moments right now in

617
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: which you're dealing with all these logistics chain failures, and

618
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 3: I was wondering if you do think there's anything that

619
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 3: we can learn from how your versions of the sort

620
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: of of port demonstrations worked for potentially trying to leverage

621
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: that in the future, especially with like contract negotiations for

622
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 3: port workers in Oakland coming up next year.

623
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it is this

624
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 4: old saying and the IWW, direct action gets goods, right,

625
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: And I think it really boils down to that it's

626
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 4: building up you know, mass movements and social movements from

627
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: below that rely on direct action, that rely on civil

628
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: is this civil disobedience? Yeah, and the pipeline protests that

629
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: have been ongoing where Indigenous people have been on the

630
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 4: front lines of that for many, many years now. I mean,

631
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 4: the kind of repression and surveillance that we face really

632
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 4: pales in comparison to the kinds of you know, surveillance

633
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 4: of repression that folks were facing at Standing Rock for example.

634
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 4: You know, I think, of course, one of the well

635
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 4: one of the main differences is that it was primarily

636
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 4: the military, you know, with us, right that was surveilling us,

637
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: because this was very specifically, you know, a war issue

638
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 4: and a military issue. But yeah, I mean I think,

639
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 4: you know, like I think there's a big questions like

640
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 4: what what do we have to do? That's that's new

641
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 4: And to me, I say, you know, for both that

642
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 4: kind of militant action, but also for the labor movements,

643
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 4: like it's not you know, we don't have to reinvent

644
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 4: the wheel. There are things that have a tried and

645
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 4: true track record of getting the goods, and that is

646
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 4: you know, these more disruptive kind of actions and movements,

647
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 4: and so one of them would be you know, I

648
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: guess my suggestion would be to like go back to

649
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 4: the basics, and even like I would say, now, you

650
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 4: know this, Remember this is at a time when like

651
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 4: Facebook was around, right, like, but we weren't really using

652
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: that for our organizing. We really relied on like face

653
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 4: to face meetings, you know, phone calls and building up

654
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 4: trust with people and building up our capacity to like

655
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: take actions and make change. You know, I think I'm

656
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: not saying throw out everything that you know, that at

657
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 4: least some of the good that social media has to offer,

658
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 4: but like I think going beyond that and going back

659
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 4: to these older tactics. And then for the labor movement,

660
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 4: like the big thing is you know, and it's just

661
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 4: like a bigger question for for mainstreaming in particular. I mean,

662
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 4: they're the whole idea of like union contracts is that

663
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 4: workers also lose a lot. Yeah, they get some things,

664
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 4: but business owners and bosses have rights carved out in

665
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: those contracts. And with the long shore workers, I mean

666
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 4: The difficult thing with that, of course, is like there

667
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: would be some symbolic strikes that, of course, like longshore

668
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 4: workers have done and continue to do, you know, around

669
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 4: like the Warren Rock historically supporting movement, Abu Jamal may Day,

670
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 4: et cetera, like in Oakland, but they have some things

671
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 4: for that written into their contracts, and you know, for

672
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 4: all these other like unions, it's like, well, you know,

673
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 4: we can't strike at all for the next two years,

674
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 4: the next three years, whatever the life of the contract is. Like,

675
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: I think it's a bigger question and challenge for the

676
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 4: labor movement to move beyond that and not be put

677
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: in this straight jacket of contracts like that.

678
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that, particularly, like the the no

679
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 3: strike clause part of contracts, I think is an interesting

680
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: thing because it I don't know, there's not I mean,

681
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 3: there are some unions that will actually do stuff around

682
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: fighting it, but mostly people just sort of don't care.

683
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 3: And I think you wind up in a situation where

684
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: it seems like you kind of have to plan your

685
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: tactics around when contract negotiations are happening, because otherwise you

686
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 3: can't actually get people to do anything more of in

687
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: like a one day symbolic strike.

688
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and or you know, the challenge is, like, you know,

689
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 4: we have this great American tradition that's not unique to

690
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 4: the US. It's universal really, and it's one that resonates

691
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: with me breaking the law right and like we're you know,

692
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 4: we're like civil disobedience. That is that what we are

693
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 4: doing in the streets and blocking the ports. We were

694
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: breaking the law and we knew it. And that's what

695
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 4: the civil rights movement, the Black freedom movement did in

696
00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: the nineteen sixties. But like we have recent exams samples

697
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 4: of workers breaking the law in mass like the West

698
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 4: Virginia teacher strikes that happened a few years ago, Like

699
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: teachers in every single county in that state went on strike.

700
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 4: They broke the law, and they want something out of that.

701
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: And I think that's what we really need to encourage people,

702
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: is this idea of breaking out of like the norm

703
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 4: and breaking the laws, which you know, the laws that

704
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: are in place, which are not there to you know,

705
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 4: expand our freedom, they're there to contract it.

706
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

707
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: One of one of my friends had a joke about

708
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: what was the exact line. It was, it's it's only

709
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: illegal if you get caught and it only matters if

710
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: you lose, which I think is a good way of

711
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: thinking about both. Yeah, and you know, yeah, I think

712
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: it's also like it's worth mentioning that like the other sides,

713
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: the law doesn't matter to them at all, Like they

714
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 3: just tear it up and like light it on fire constantly.

715
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: So don't don't bind yourself if you can, if you

716
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 3: can not get caught and not like go to prison

717
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life. Don't bind yourself by

718
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: a bunch of like paper that the other side just

719
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 3: doesn't care about.

720
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's an excellent point, because that's the big thing,

721
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 4: you know, with the army and law enforcement in general,

722
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 4: like surveillance of us. They were in the police just

723
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 4: their actions, their brazen actions on the street, like the

724
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 4: Ryot police, they were just breaking.

725
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: The law all the time.

726
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 4: They absolutely have a deep visceral hatred of the Bill

727
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 4: of Rights, of civil rights and civil liberties. And so

728
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 4: there were a number of, you know, court cases that

729
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 4: sprung out of you know, this movement. There was a

730
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 4: case called Panagoacas Vitari another Juliana Panagoacas was another PMR

731
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 4: member coplaintiff in that case. And you know, it was

732
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 4: a case against the Army that you know, we wage

733
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 4: and brought up to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals

734
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 4: and you know, eventually lost and it could have brought

735
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 4: it to the Supreme Court but didn't. But you know,

736
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 4: like the the other thing is like the violation of

737
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: the Posse Commentatos Act. It was a whole other thing.

738
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 4: You know, we don't have to get like so tied

739
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: up into like the legalistic I think, but like the

740
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 4: point your point is valid. Like they don't care about

741
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 4: the laws that are already there. They'll they'll just intentionally

742
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 4: break them, break their own laws that they have set up,

743
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 4: and you know, they'll just get a slap on the

744
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 4: wrist because that's really all that's all that happens to them.

745
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 3: I think, I think I think that's a good note

746
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 3: to end on break the law. It's fake. It's also bad.

747
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: Do you two have anything you want.

748
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 4: To plug other than that, other than you know, encouraging

749
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 4: people to break the.

750
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: Law your local.

751
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: Port Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's you know,

752
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 4: I guess just encourage people to do as you know,

753
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 4: it sounds like what we're doing by having us on

754
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 4: the show, and like there are some in our very

755
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 4: recent history, you know, movements and wins that we all

756
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 4: as activists today can still learn from. And I think

757
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 4: part of that, you know, I don't want to call

758
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: us elders because we're not that old, but like one

759
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 4: part of that is like making sure like our movements

760
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 4: are still like multi generational and like we we learned

761
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 4: from each other and also as as Julianna and I did,

762
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 4: like I mentioned earlier, like we learned from the movements

763
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 4: of the past, SDS, the Black Panthers, the Black Freedom Movement,

764
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 4: et cetera. But there's a lot that you know, these

765
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 4: these struggles I think have to offer us today.

766
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: All right, well, think thank you, thank you both for

767
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: talking coming on and talking with.

768
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 5: Us, for having us.

769
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 4: Thank you.

770
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 3: Well, this is this has when it could happen here

771
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 3: I find us at have your pod on Twitter, Instagram,

772
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 3: and the rest of our stuff is a cause on

773
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: media at the same somewhat accursed social media places. I

774
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: don't know why I'm saying somewhat, they're just a cursed

775
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 3: yeah see you next time whenever.

776
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 6: That is, Hey everyone, it's James.

777
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 7: I am just recording an introduction for today's episode, which

778
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 7: we recorded on Sunday night. I'm recording this on Monday

779
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 7: night and you will hear this on Tuesday morning. That's Tuesday,

780
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 7: twenty eighth of November. I just wanted to include another

781
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 7: ask for donations right up front here, because we are tired,

782
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 7: broke and sad. I spent last night sleeping out by

783
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 7: the migrant camp in Nocumber, one of the camps. It

784
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 7: was extremely cold like and I had a good sleeping

785
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 7: bag right much much worse for people who have blankets.

786
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 7: I had a young woman completely breaking down and crying

787
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 7: this morning, understandably because it's terrible and people have been

788
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 7: there for five six days now. We ran out of

789
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 7: food all our distribution sites today. We just desperately need

790
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 7: more help and we need a much larger scale operation,

791
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 7: but we can't find that. So if you're able to help,

792
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 7: please please do. I know it's a difficult time of year.

793
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 7: I'm not asking you to give money that I wouldn't give.

794
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 7: I'm thousand plus dollars deep in this. I'm not asking

795
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 7: you to do things that I wouldn't do. Spending half

796
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 7: my week out there like, I'm not just preaching something

797
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 7: that I am not part of this is something I'm

798
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 7: very much part of. I think it's very important to

799
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 7: me and it would mean a lot to me if

800
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 7: people could help. However they can, either materially or with

801
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 7: their time. Thank you very much, and I hope you

802
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 7: enjoy the episode.

803
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: Hi.

804
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 7: Hello, it's me James, the guy who does podcast who

805
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 7: talks to you when you're driving to work, and today

806
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 7: on this podcast it Could Happen Here, which is about

807
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 7: the world falling apart and people who are putting it

808
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 7: back together. I am joined by two friends of mine.

809
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 7: We are in the desert in a Cumba at the

810
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 7: Cumba Hot Springs Hotel, which is open now thankfully. We've

811
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 7: just spent most of today and the last two months

812
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 7: doing mutual aid project out here. So if you guys

813
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 7: like to introduce yourselves in any way you think it's relevant,

814
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 7: that would be great to start off with, and then

815
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 7: we can talk about what's been going on here.

816
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: I am Haval.

817
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 8: I use their them pronouns. I live in San Diego

818
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 8: but now currently living in her cumber helping out with

819
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 8: the migrant crisis at the border.

820
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: Hi.

821
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 9: I'm Alo like alo Vera. I use she her pronouns,

822
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 9: and I've been doing mutual aid for a couple of

823
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 9: years now and recently have come into the scene of

824
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 9: helping with the refugee crisis at the border.

825
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 3: Massive thank you.

826
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 7: Okay, So I think to start off with, can one

827
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 7: of you or both of you describe just what we've

828
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 7: seen today. I think it's very hard for people to

829
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 7: get a grasp of like how the scale of what's

830
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 7: happening and how bad it is here.

831
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

832
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 8: So today we are in the wake of a holiday

833
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 8: where CBP takes off, well most of them are taking

834
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 8: off for the holiday, and probably what is a iss

835
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 8: action as well, who picks up the migrants. So there's

836
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 8: a huge backlog of people not getting picked up, stuck

837
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 8: in these open air detention sites. And this is some

838
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 8: of the highest numbers that we've seen in a long

839
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 8: time since like the beginning of this what happened in September, right, Yeah,

840
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 8: And it's insane, like the amount of people that we've

841
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 8: were running out of food. Basically we barely made it

842
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 8: buy on peanut butter and jelly sandwich, the world famous

843
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 8: peanut butter.

844
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 7: They're coming here because we feed them. They just want

845
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 7: the sandwich.

846
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: And it was wild.

847
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 8: It was it's it's like the desperation is getting worse

848
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 8: because as it gets colder, you know, people are suffering more,

849
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 8: they're you know, shivering more, so it's using.

850
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: More energy, They're more hungry.

851
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 8: When we show up, they're tailing our van as we

852
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 8: pull up, which doesn't didn't always happen, And yeah, the

853
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 8: desperation is real.

854
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 3: We saw what like three sixty.

855
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 8: I think at one camp Willows and then at another

856
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 8: camp it was one fifty at another camp totally what

857
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 8: seven math is hard?

858
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it varies throughout the day. Right, Like, I'm surprised.

859
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 7: We should explain, maybe ALA can do this. What is

860
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 7: it open at detention site?

861
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: Right?

862
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 7: OADS is yacronom we use. What does that look like?

863
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,479
Speaker 9: So an opener to tension center. From what I've seen,

864
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 9: is literally just people left out in the desert with nothing.

865
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 9: The shelter that they have has either been built themselves

866
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 9: by the shrubs and you know the manzanita bushes that

867
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 9: they find around there that they also burn which creates

868
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 9: awful smoke, as well as what we provide them in

869
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 9: terms of tarps, blankets, tents. What I've seen in the

870
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 9: open air detention centers is Essentially, when Border Patrol has

871
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 9: the start of a quarter, they have the money to

872
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 9: really get people out of there. You have a lot

873
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 9: of people just processed very quickly. It doesn't pile up.

874
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 9: And then because of that, all the infrastructure that we

875
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 9: put into these places, and all of you know, the

876
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 9: infrastructure that these refugees build themselves, right this is not

877
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 9: provided by Border Patrol, gets basically ruined. And so you

878
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 9: have soiled blankets that have become the tops of tents

879
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 9: because that's their only use at this point, have not

880
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 9: enough shelters, so people are sleeping just among the rocks

881
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 9: and trees because it's the best they can. Yeah, and

882
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 9: I think one of the most notable points of these

883
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 9: open air detention centers is legally speaking, Border Patrol gets

884
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 9: around this by not really calling them detention centers, saying

885
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 9: that they're not detained and that technically they're free. But

886
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 9: the reality is there's nowhere for them to go without

887
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 9: getting you arrested or deported. But because of this loophole,

888
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 9: Border Patrol has no obligation to feed them, and so

889
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 9: when they do feed them at the start of the quarter,

890
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 9: when they have the budget at which they blow it's oranges,

891
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 9: it's crackers. It's not enough to live off of when

892
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 9: you're stuck there for five days. I spoke to a

893
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 9: Kurdish migrant today who had been there for five days.

894
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 9: And you know, we've heard of people staying there for

895
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 9: an entire week, just stuck in these camps as they

896
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,479
Speaker 9: overflow with people because they're not cleared due to whether

897
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 9: it be a holiday season or whatever it might be

898
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 9: that puts us in this circumstance.

899
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, and obviously most people won't have been here. You

900
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 7: can look on a map or Google Maps that you

901
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 7: want to, but all of this is happening like literally

902
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 7: in the shadow of the border wall in some cases,

903
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 7: or right next to the border wall. Sometimes it's a

904
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 7: little bit next, a little bit further away. And just

905
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 7: to explain why there are these locations where they are,

906
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 7: you guys want to explain like how people are getting

907
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 7: to the because cucumber. If you've got Google Maps, if

908
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 7: you're not driving, like, you can put it up and

909
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 7: you can look right, we're like an hour and a

910
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 7: bit east of San Diego, about seventy miles east of

911
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 7: San Diego, closer to our centro than San Diego. So

912
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 7: can you explain how people are ending up here by

913
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 7: the hundreds or thousands.

914
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

915
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 8: Talk to many migrants and they stay in a hotel

916
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 8: in TJ.

917
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: I have no idea which one, and wouldn't give.

918
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 8: The information if I did, but yeah, they stay in

919
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 8: a hotel in TJ, and they get separated by nationality.

920
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 8: So they take their passports from them and put them

921
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 8: in stacks and separate them by their nationalities. So you'll

922
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 8: get you know, Chinese nationalists together, you'll get people that

923
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 8: are from Turkey together, mostly Kurdish, and then you'll get

924
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 8: whatever their nationality is. And I'm sure the outliers get

925
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 8: just lumped into whatever is the most you know, like yeah,

926
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 8: language group exactly. And then they get in the morning,

927
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 8: I guess at like five or six am. They drive

928
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 8: all the way out from TJ to Hakamba and get

929
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 8: dropped off at there's three points where there's breaks in

930
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 8: the walls, and these walls obviously they don't go over

931
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 8: the mountains because Trump was trying to build distance rather

932
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 8: than actual stopping people, and so these breaks in the

933
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 8: walls are very easy to cross. It's literally just walking over.

934
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 8: There was some remnants of concertina wire or bob wire

935
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 8: like in the area, but it's all ripped and super

936
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 8: easy to cross, and so the coyotes will drop them

937
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 8: off near or bits away from that point and have

938
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 8: them walk in when that's where border patrol. After they cross,

939
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 8: border patrol will intercept them give them wristbands for the

940
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 8: day they arrived.

941
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: We actually just saw this last week.

942
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 8: They must have ran out of wristbands because they were

943
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 8: giving like Sunday wristbands when it was like a Wednesday.

944
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, everybody said fuck, like and that makes.

945
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 8: Our job more complicated too, not only their job, I'm sure,

946
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 8: because they're trying to process them in order, but our

947
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 8: job because we're trying to record how long have people

948
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 8: been here. I remember I was talking to a Chinese

949
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 8: nationalist and had to call a translator just to see

950
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 8: like because they had a Sunday wristband and I think

951
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 8: it was Tuesday or something already, and I was like, wait,

952
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 8: you got you've been here for two days. And they

953
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 8: were like like trying to explain what the language barrier wants.

954
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 8: The translated like, no, we got here three hours ago.

955
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 8: We kept thinking they got here three days ago. They

956
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 8: kept showing the number three on their hands and so yeah,

957
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 8: they give them these risk bands and then tell them

958
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 8: to wait in these areas that are very close to

959
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 8: where they are intercepted, and border patrol will tell them

960
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 8: there's cameras all over the dead that we're watching you,

961
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 8: so don't leave, and if you leave, it'll mess up

962
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 8: your migroprocess or your asylum process, and so they most

963
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 8: of them stay. We've actually have seen a lot of

964
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 8: people walking on the eighty here trying to get to

965
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 8: town because they're desperate, they're cold, they're hungry, and they're.

966
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: Probably just like fuck this, you know.

967
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 8: But it's interesting too, how like border patrol in all

968
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 8: media aspects denies the existence of these camps.

969
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're not explicitly to me right later, they don't exist,

970
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 7: or they don't detain people, people that they what they'll

971
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 7: say to people aren't detained here, that they're free to go.

972
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 1: Which technically they are and they can walk.

973
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 8: But I had a Kurdish friend that I met at

974
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 8: one of the camps that we call Moon Camp, and

975
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 8: twenty year old from Turkey, and he said that him

976
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 8: and a bunch of friends that he was traveling with

977
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 8: just walked to the subway up the street got a

978
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 8: subway sandwich, and then border patrol showed up after they

979
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 8: had ordered their food, yeah, and said you have to

980
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,479
Speaker 8: go back with us, but finish your food here, because

981
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 8: imagine that walking in was being taken back with some

982
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 8: way be like, oh, we can just leave and get

983
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 8: out of here. Like so they finished their sandwiches and

984
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 8: then he took them straight back. So that is detention.

985
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 8: If you can't leave, then you're in detention.

986
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: That's the debt. By definition.

987
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 7: I feel like, yeah, and I don't think people think

988
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 7: they are free to leave. And I don't think people

989
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 7: certainly they're not told what situation they were in, right

990
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 7: and think so maybe they would assume that, but there's

991
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 7: also not very many places for them to go.

992
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 3: We are in the middle of nowhere.

993
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 9: So from what I've talked to different people, you know,

994
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 9: on top of just like crossing the border, there's also

995
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 9: an entire period where these people are traveling and all

996
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 9: of them travel in different ways, and some of them

997
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,720
Speaker 9: are traveling all the way from South America through Panama

998
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 9: through the jungle, and you know, people are dying on

999
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 9: the route over here, and some of them are lucky

1000
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 9: enough to just fly in.

1001
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 7: And and you know, right, Yeah, they have to fight

1002
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 7: to Cancun.

1003
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 9: Fly into Cancun, and then make their way over to

1004
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 9: TJ and make it through the border. And I have seen,

1005
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 9: like for myself with my own eyes, you know, burns

1006
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 9: from motorcycle exhaust from you know, the different methods that

1007
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 9: they've used to get here. And I've seen spider bites,

1008
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 9: I've seen, you know, injuries that are infected that have

1009
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 9: been infected for a long time because they've been that

1010
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 9: way since they were in the jungle, and it's inadequate.

1011
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 9: I had a woman that I was helping give medical

1012
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 9: care to whose ankles were swollen from a steroid that

1013
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 9: she was given that she should not have been given

1014
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 9: and that she had a bad reaction to. And yeah,

1015
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 9: that's just been their reality traveling here and trying to

1016
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 9: get here. On top of that, I think that speaking

1017
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 9: of medical issues and speaking on what you were saying

1018
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 9: earlier about the threats of becoming undocumented, the threats of

1019
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 9: you know, being forced to stay in these camps, there's

1020
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 9: even fear of having a medical emergency. So like when

1021
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 9: EMS comes out, when we call nine to one one

1022
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 9: or Border Patrol calls nine one one, right they're not

1023
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 9: like working in connection with border patrol. They're just going

1024
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 9: to a hospital as if it was you know, someone

1025
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 9: house person on the street going to the hospital. And

1026
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 9: so they end up there, and if they're not given

1027
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 9: the proper information to get a court tape, to finish

1028
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 9: their asylum process and to really like be submitted properly

1029
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 9: into the country, they are at risk of becoming undocumented.

1030
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 9: And I think that fear has spread among people, and

1031
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 9: I've definitely noticed personally that there is fear to have

1032
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 9: nine to one one call to be taken away in

1033
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 9: an ambulance because they fear you know, becoming undocumented or being.

1034
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: At risk or separated.

1035
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 9: Separated has been a big thing because if they end

1036
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 9: up having their process either take longer or just be

1037
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 9: stuck in the hospital or whatever it may be, they're

1038
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 9: away from their family, they have to go through a

1039
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 9: different process. They're not processed at the detention center is

1040
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 9: the same way or at the same time. So it's

1041
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 9: just it's a it's a there's a lot of fear,

1042
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 9: and I think that's led to a lot of unnecessary harm.

1043
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 9: And we do our best in terms of medical care,

1044
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 9: but there's you know, we're limited. We you know, it's

1045
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 9: over the counter, it's you know, it's we can't do much.

1046
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a street medicine really, yes, exactly. Yeah,

1047
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 7: Like we have some doctors and nurses and other qualified

1048
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 7: medical people come and help, but they don't have the

1049
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 7: diagnostic tools that they need. Right, Like today we headed

1050
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 7: somebody who had clearly some high issues and like the

1051
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 7: best we can do is say this person needs to

1052
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 7: go to hospital. But then in this case, they were

1053
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 7: able to take the person's partners. Sometimes they won't take

1054
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 7: the person's partner. Sometimes a person could be separated from

1055
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 7: their children, and so they're obviously very afraid of that.

1056
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 7: And and to compound that, I think like the release

1057
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 7: that they're not released in the way they had previously

1058
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 7: been released, that they're dumped onto the street at certain

1059
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 7: transit centers, right and then and again it falls onto

1060
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 7: volunteers nonprofits to help them get to.

1061
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 3: Where they're going to go.

1062
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 7: The scale of the mutual aid operation is really impressive,

1063
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 7: and it's something that I don't think is like we

1064
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 7: don't talk about it enough, people don't really understand it.

1065
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 7: So could maybe we just start, like literally what we

1066
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 7: do every day in a day. I've got to have

1067
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 7: volity here every day.

1068
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, One thing I forgot to mention is I

1069
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 8: am here every single day now full time, ten plus

1070
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 8: hours a day.

1071
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: It's eight days a week. And so yeah, every day

1072
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,439
Speaker 1: we wake up, I wake up.

1073
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 8: Around like six am, and we try to get to

1074
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 8: the first camp, which is down the street from where

1075
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 8: I'm staying, around seven thirty or eight.

1076
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: O'clock in the morning.

1077
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 8: And the previous night we have loaded the van up

1078
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 8: with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because they have a

1079
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 8: good hold. You don't need to keep them really refrigerated

1080
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 8: much or you know, the YadA YadA, and so it's

1081
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 8: just peeb and j's water and fruit and we give

1082
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 8: them each one at least sometimes more if we have

1083
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 8: the capability, and then we another person who is also

1084
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 8: here full time will hit another camp on their way

1085
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 8: because it's on their way to meet up at a

1086
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 8: central location we call the Youth Center or the YC

1087
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 8: where all of our donations end up, whether it's clothes, blankets,

1088
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 8: food items, non perishables, perishables. We have a fridge and

1089
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 8: in that place, once we get there, we'll assess what

1090
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 8: we need to do is do we need to make

1091
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 8: more food? Do we have enough to go feed the

1092
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 8: third camp, which we call one seven seven, which is

1093
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 8: all the way in Boulevard a little outside of Hakamba,

1094
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 8: And if we have enough, we'll just hit we'll leave

1095
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 8: and hit that spot and then come back and start dinner.

1096
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 8: And in the meanwhile, we have a lot of volunteers

1097
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 8: that will show up and make peanut butter and jelly

1098
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 8: sandwiches because that is our easy go to staple.

1099
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:58,479
Speaker 1: It's quick to give out.

1100
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 8: It's you know, not a whole lot of prep time

1101
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 8: to make, you know, five hundred sandwiches, which seems like

1102
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 8: a lot, but we've gone through probably tens of thousand

1103
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 8: those sandwiches by this point.

1104
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 7: So he gave out a thousand PB ANDJS today.

1105
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

1106
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, we ran out like today, I gave out everything

1107
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 8: and there was even people where like the two we

1108
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 8: got everybody in the line, which was I think I

1109
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 8: think that was around three sixty. No, no, it was

1110
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,479
Speaker 8: three sixty when we did account and so in the morning, yeah,

1111
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 8: and we ran out, and but we had two So

1112
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 8: like a lot of the times, especially the micros that

1113
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 8: have been there multiple days, they'll jump in. There's like

1114
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 8: always two people or three people that are like, I'm

1115
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 8: here to help Kurdish people, our amazing help and are

1116
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 8: always willing to step up. But yeah, this morning at

1117
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 8: Willow one of the camps, we had two guys that

1118
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 8: were kind of controlling the line and helping keep them back,

1119
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 8: and one of them like send them to us one

1120
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 8: at a time. And at the very end of it,

1121
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 8: I had nothing for them, and I was like going

1122
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 8: to hook them up with a cop sandwiches and a

1123
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 8: little have anybody who helps, I'll cook them up with

1124
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 8: a cups of extra sandwiches or food items or water

1125
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 8: or cigarettes even, And yeah, I had nothing for them

1126
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 8: except for kids sandwiches or kid sandwiches kid packs. So

1127
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 8: we make these little sandwich bags full of like different

1128
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 8: candies and you know, granola bars and things that kids

1129
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 8: would like to eat and give them a lot of

1130
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 8: nutrition and stuff. So I just gave them extra that.

1131
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 8: And once other migrants saw me giving those things out

1132
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 8: that I had been holding and telling other people know,

1133
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 8: these are for kids, then everybody swarmed and it was

1134
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 8: just like, Okay, well I'm giving all the kid whoever's there,

1135
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 8: whoever's arm is there. They're getting you know, a kid's

1136
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,479
Speaker 8: pack and got rid of literally all of our food.

1137
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 8: And I think we put in like twelve plus cases

1138
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 8: of water, forty packs, and they were all gone except

1139
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 8: for maybe like ten or fifteen waters. It was one

1140
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 8: of the more dire mornings that we've had, especially, Yeah,

1141
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 8: at these camps.

1142
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 9: I know that three sixty was the the number that

1143
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 9: you guys got in the morning, but I believe that

1144
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 9: by the time that we were working in the evening,

1145
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 9: at least when I was doing medical check, the number

1146
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 9: that I was getting told either around the camp or

1147
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 9: from Border patrol was five hundred at Willows. So and

1148
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 9: this is you know, these are numbers that even Border

1149
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 9: Patrol is like freaking out over. They are, you know,

1150
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 9: worried because they can't deal with this quantity of people

1151
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 9: and keep them processing while there's still a consistent flow.

1152
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 9: And that's you know, it puts a lot of strain

1153
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 9: on us because, like you were saying, we're running out

1154
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 9: of food. We don't have enough to feed five hundred people,

1155
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 9: you know, every day, even though we're just doing you know,

1156
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 9: two meals a breakfast and as best we can a

1157
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 9: dinner and trying to make sure that that dinner is

1158
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 9: a hot meal because it is frigid out here. I

1159
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 9: slept in my van and I kept having to wake

1160
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 9: up to try and warm up and do something to

1161
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 9: keep myself from freezing. And I, you know, I can

1162
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 9: only a imagine what it's like for them with what

1163
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 9: minimal equipment they have. Some of them don't even have tents.

1164
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 9: So it has been a lot. I know that today,

1165
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 9: running medical, I've seen a lot of people with colds,

1166
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 9: and I am suspicious that that perhaps there is COVID

1167
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 9: running around, that perhaps there is, you know something, there's

1168
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 9: definitely something, some kind of very severe illness. Going through

1169
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 9: the camps and being in this freezing cold is not

1170
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 9: helping anyone's immune system. And on top of that, I've

1171
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 9: seen broken fingers and some other stuff. And that's that's

1172
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 9: been my today has been treating that and then helping

1173
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 9: out with dinner, which I will say I tried a

1174
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 9: little bit of the lentils and rice, and I can

1175
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 9: say we are feeding them well.

1176
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 3: It is delicious, delicious food.

1177
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 9: Thank you, Sam Schultz, an amazing cook and an amazing

1178
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 9: helper for us making sure that we, you know, are

1179
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 9: able to do this for like you were saying, for

1180
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 9: a long time, you know, this was put on you know,

1181
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 9: one family of locals to really, yeah, one family of

1182
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 9: Quakers to really take care of these people day in

1183
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 9: and day out. And it wasn't until you came here

1184
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 9: and were able to actually like be here full time

1185
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 9: that there was even just an extra hand around. And

1186
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 9: you know, right, volunteers are here during the week. But

1187
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 9: the reality is is we are all still stuck at work,

1188
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 9: we all still live in this healthscape. We're all still

1189
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 9: stuck grinding those gears and making ends meet. And so

1190
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 9: coming out here for a lot of us is you know,

1191
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 9: like for me, is a weekend task. It's you know,

1192
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 9: it's what we can do. It's what we have the

1193
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 9: ability and the time and the gas money for. And

1194
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 9: on top of that, a lot of us spent a

1195
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 9: lot of our own money. I know that I've spent

1196
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 9: like at least a grand and a half on just

1197
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 9: like supplies for these runs, on supplies for whatever I can.

1198
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 9: And you know, sometimes we get we're able to get

1199
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 9: reimbursed by our mutual aids, and sometimes the money runs

1200
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 9: dry and we just you know, we need a lot

1201
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 9: of support out here that we don't have, that we

1202
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 9: don't get and I feel like we really felt that

1203
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 9: today running out of food.

1204
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was bleak today.

1205
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 7: And of course the thing is like we can feed

1206
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 7: five hundred people and do this gug gantu an effort,

1207
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 7: and then we have to feed the same number tomorrow.

1208
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 7: And like if we clear out us that we on

1209
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 7: top of like those of us who are able to

1210
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 7: go out to do medicals, to do feeds, sometimes some

1211
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 7: of us go out and construct shelters or to check

1212
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 7: that there aren't people who are sick and the shelters

1213
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 7: who aren't getting care that they need, et cetera, et cetera.

1214
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 7: Like you said, people have to cook, right, people have

1215
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 7: to make pbjs. People have to resupply our stuff and

1216
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 7: drive it up from San Diego, which is an hour

1217
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 7: and fifteen minutes away. Like it's a gargantu an effort

1218
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 7: that it's exclusively taken on by volunteers, and like a

1219
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 7: relatively small group of volunteers considering the scale of the

1220
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 7: task at hand. I wonder like if you would like

1221
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 7: talk about your volunteering experience a little bit. I think

1222
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 7: it's been great, Like it's a very diverse group of people.

1223
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 7: We've had so many. We have the Schultz family who

1224
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 7: are Quakers who are amazing, who have been like spearheading

1225
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 7: this since the start. We have like obviously a lot

1226
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 7: of anarchist people, and a lot of people from various

1227
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 7: migrant advocacy and aid groups. Uh, that's what we have,

1228
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 7: the Black Panthers the other day. That's probably a ton

1229
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 7: of people I'm missing.

1230
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, in church groups, church career, I.

1231
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 8: Mean, the whole the YC was kind of given to

1232
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 8: us and I think now we're renting it to my knowledge,

1233
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 8: but that was given to us by the what's the

1234
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 8: church Methodist church here in Hukumba. And then there's a

1235
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 8: group of Mormons and they're just kind of unaffiliated from

1236
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 8: their church in a way, like they're not. There was

1237
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 8: just a family that saw the need and some of

1238
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 8: the elders were helping load up the beans that they've

1239
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 8: the other day. You know from the house that the

1240
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 8: lady that makes it and then another lady Mormon lady

1241
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 8: makes us these roles and we'll just like give us

1242
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 8: like hundreds and hundreds of bread rolls, which everybody loves,

1243
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 8: even the volunteers.

1244
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been eating the bread homemade roles. Yeah, it's

1245
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: super good.

1246
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 8: So that Yeah, like you said, mutual aid groups, anarchists,

1247
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 8: just individuals. Random people will show up they heard it.

1248
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 8: We had a couple people show up that heard it

1249
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 8: on National, NPR, KPBS, and you know, then they orgs

1250
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 8: border kindness. I'll look Gelato will come out here and

1251
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 8: send volunteers and whatnot. But it's hard to really rely

1252
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 8: on volunteers. Like we have a sign up sheet and

1253
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 8: everything so we can kind of gauge what the day

1254
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 8: is going to be like. But sometimes people don't show up,

1255
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 8: and sometimes especially around the holiday times, it gets really

1256
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 8: thin because everybody's got their own lives and things to do.

1257
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 8: And but yeah, I mean I started volunteering just on

1258
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 8: my weekends when I was working full time at my

1259
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 8: dead end jup back at home in San Diego, and

1260
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,639
Speaker 8: I would, you know, saw the need. I was down

1261
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 8: at Whiskey eight in San de Sidro pretty much every

1262
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 8: day after work and on the weekends, and then when

1263
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 8: they started doing street releases at IRIS station in San Diego,

1264
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 8: I would just be there full time and on my

1265
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 8: weekends just be there until in Deaf and Haitian Bridge

1266
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,879
Speaker 8: started showing up and kind of took in Detention Resistance

1267
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 8: and they kind of took over that scene, and so

1268
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 8: I the need was like, oh, Jakamba needs help.

1269
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 1: So I just would come.

1270
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 8: After that, I just started coming out here every weekend

1271
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 8: from I would get off on a Thursday at like

1272
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 8: two pm, take care of my cats at home for

1273
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 8: a second, then drive out, help out whatever I could

1274
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 8: by the time I got here, spend the night somehow

1275
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 8: either I never had to sleep in my car, but

1276
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 8: I would be ready to.

1277
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 1: And then I have some friends.

1278
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 8: Here that would put me up for the night and

1279
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 8: stay Thursday night to Friday, call day Friday, and all

1280
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 8: day Saturday until I had to go home because I

1281
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 8: worked at five am on Sunday. And then all that

1282
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 8: week I would just be at w Wait going down

1283
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 8: after work. And so I haven't had a day off

1284
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 8: since this really started. I mean, I think I got

1285
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 8: the flu for a week five days right am.

1286
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 1: I had a fever four or five fucking.

1287
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 8: Days in a row, which is horrible, but so not

1288
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 8: really a day off technically, but yeah, and then I

1289
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 8: since I had been coming out here every weekend and

1290
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 8: dedicating my time to Hukumba and had so many ties

1291
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 8: with like the locals and I know, the people who

1292
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 8: owned the hotel out here that we are currently at,

1293
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 8: and just you know, showed face and it showed a

1294
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 8: strong work ethic, I guess to help feed these people,

1295
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 8: and the passion of you know, and the amount of

1296
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 8: care that I gave and attention to these people and

1297
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 8: listening to them, and the Schultz family, who are like

1298
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 8: the main on the ground people since day one were like, yeah,

1299
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 8: this this person needs to be out here. We want

1300
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,760
Speaker 8: to have all out here full time, and I'll love

1301
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 8: Clado got a grant to to basically fund that, and

1302
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 8: so once that money came through, I just took a

1303
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 8: sabbatical from my nine to five and I was like, peace,

1304
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 8: I got more important things to do than give Jeff

1305
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 8: Bezos more money. You know, so he needs more yachts, clearly, Yeah, clearly, yeah,

1306
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 8: and more space trips you know. Yeah.

1307
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 3: So yeah.

1308
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 8: So ever since then, I've just you know, I'm lucky

1309
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 8: enough to have that, and you know, showed that, you know,

1310
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 8: dedication to where I can be out here. And honestly,

1311
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 8: like some people may think like, oh, because I'm getting paid,

1312
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 8: I'm a boss or I'm a lead and like to me,

1313
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 8: it's like, no, we're all leading, and I'm still just

1314
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 8: doing the same work.

1315
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 1: I'm just now able to be here.

1316
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 8: Well on payroll forty eight hours a week, but in

1317
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 8: reality it's ten hour days, eight days a week.

1318
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all the time.

1319
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 7: And like, yeah, I think it's really important that people

1320
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 7: know actually that we have a very very verseque group.

1321
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 7: It's not everybody is necessarily like committed to horizontal organizing

1322
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 7: as the be all and end all, but that's how

1323
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 7: we operate and it works really well.

1324
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, especially Sam and the Quakers, they're very good at listening.

1325
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 8: There's the American Friends Society.

1326
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it works so well.

1327
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 7: Like when I was thinking the other day, I was

1328
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 7: out here and it was the day before the holiday,

1329
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 7: and first of all, we had this moment where this

1330
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 7: lady pulled up and she was like, hey, who's in charge.

1331
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 7: We were all like everyone's in charge, and the lady

1332
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 7: was like what how does that? How did you? And

1333
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 7: then but then like another time, we had a bit

1334
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 7: of a crisis. We ran out of balls when we're

1335
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 7: trying to feed people, and like one of us came up.

1336
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 3: With yeah, and the zip blocked back.

1337
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, we made so we were like, we didn't have bowls,

1338
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 7: we had sandwiches, So we gave them a sandwich and

1339
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 7: then took the zip block back back and filled it

1340
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 7: with beans and like it. You know, it wasn't the

1341
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 7: person who'd been here for the longest or done the

1342
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 7: most sessions, but it was a great idea and it

1343
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 7: got us out of a difficult situation. And like, I think,

1344
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 7: because we organize with respect for each other, we can

1345
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 7: listen to each other and incorporate those ideas and that

1346
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:03,759
Speaker 7: you had something to say.

1347
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I just I want to highlight the community

1348
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 9: that I've seen build here. I know that in terms

1349
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 9: of nine hierarchical organizing, I personally have seen you know,

1350
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 9: everyone step up and lead, even people who are there

1351
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 9: their first day. Right if there is a task to

1352
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 9: be done and they say they know how to do

1353
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 9: it and they have a good idea, they're leading it,

1354
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 9: they're spearheading it. There is you know, there's no second

1355
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 9: guessing or egos that I've seen, at least not to

1356
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 9: such a degree that it's been harmful. And I think

1357
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 9: that that has given us a lot of power and

1358
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 9: has allowed sort of our creativity to get us through this.

1359
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:54,480
Speaker 9: I think it's a testament to what non hierarchical organizing

1360
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 9: means and how you know, lack of hierarchy and lack

1361
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 9: of a dedicated leader doesn't mean a lack of leadership.

1362
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 9: I think it falls on all of us to lead.

1363
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 9: It falls on all of us to bring what we

1364
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 9: know to the table, whether that be from the experience

1365
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 9: that we've had coming here and working here and knowing

1366
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 9: the details and the minutia of what's going on specifically

1367
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 9: here in Hakamba with this project, or what we bring

1368
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 9: to the table from our past experiences. And I think

1369
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 9: that that has really beautifully coalesced into a really efficient

1370
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 9: system as best as we can do, as best as

1371
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 9: we can manage. You know, we've really made do and

1372
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 9: kept people alive in a huge way.

1373
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think kept people alive is right, Like

1374
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 7: if if I don't know how this would have gone

1375
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 7: down if we weren't here, because I don't know if

1376
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:51,759
Speaker 7: they would have kept doing it, but certainly more people

1377
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 7: would have been very unwell or passed away. Like I

1378
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 7: think we can all think of a different medical emergency

1379
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 7: what we've had to intervene to stop it getting much worse.

1380
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, like just last week, I think, did you come

1381
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 8: out the day after something? It rained on all of

1382
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 8: us and there was like a heavy downpour.

1383
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: We weren't even ready.

1384
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 8: We thought it was, oh, it might be like a

1385
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 8: little drizzle or it might be light rain here, and

1386
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 8: they're scattered.

1387
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 3: But then we set up and.

1388
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 8: We're cooking and getting ready for to do lunch or

1389
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 8: after breakfast and getting ready to do our dinner and stuff.

1390
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: And it just started downpouring on us.

1391
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 7: And I was driving and I told.

1392
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 8: You, oh, yeah, you shut up that day and literally

1393
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 8: like we in as we got to we were like,

1394
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 8: oh fuck, we got it, Like move now. So we

1395
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 8: just got all the ponchos that we had a bunch

1396
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 8: of ponchos, got them all in the car, drove to

1397
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 8: the first camp that we had fed that morning, and

1398
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 8: we're just started handing out ponchos as the rain's coming down.

1399
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 8: They're walking in as you know, the coyotes dropped them off,

1400
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 8: and that's a long hike. Had the Moon camp from

1401
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 8: where they end up to where they break in the

1402
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 8: wall is what thirty minute walk, ye so or so,

1403
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 8: and so they are arriving in the pouring rain, their

1404
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 8: socks are getting wet. It is super cold, especially at

1405
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 8: Moon because of the location. It's just ridiculously cold, and

1406
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 8: that's like case for hypothermia. And we're there to you know,

1407
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 8: to stop them from getting so wet. We're giving them

1408
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 8: trash bags for their bags, ponchos.

1409
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: For their being their persons.

1410
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 8: I remember seeing this little girl, she must have been

1411
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 8: like five or six, and then we had cardboard and

1412
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 8: because we didn't think it was going to be so

1413
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 8: pooring before we when we loaded up the van and

1414
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 8: we had cardboard to keep you know, the ground drive

1415
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 8: for them to like lay on in their tents or whatever.

1416
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 8: And people took the cardboard out of the van and

1417
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 8: we're like blocking the rain and shielding this little child

1418
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 8: from getting wet, you know. And it's super windy at

1419
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:42,759
Speaker 8: Moon too, at that camp. It's the location.

1420
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,919
Speaker 1: It gets a lot of the the wind from whatever

1421
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: that passes.

1422
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it comes up from yeah. Yeah.

1423
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 7: I think everything you said, which we should probably touch on,

1424
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 7: is like perhaps it's because of the way we organize,

1425
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 7: because we don't have like strict rolls and jobs or

1426
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 7: low leadership things. But like, and you'd mentioned it before,

1427
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 7: but like nine times out of ten, we end up

1428
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 7: doing things with people, not for people. Right, Like the

1429
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 7: other day, I know, like a Kurdish guy and I

1430
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 7: set up a ton of tents, so Colombian dude and

1431
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 7: I built this amazing shelter and it wasn't for hit

1432
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 7: and his family, it was for anyone who needed it.

1433
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 9: I definitely have seen that sort of collaboration with the migrants,

1434
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 9: and I feel like it doesn't.

1435
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 3: Feel like charity. It feels like mutual lid.

1436
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 9: And on top of that, when I'm hearing from them,

1437
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 9: you know they you know, they're helping us out. But

1438
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 9: then on top of that, they're saying, I'm going to

1439
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 9: get processed and I'm coming back.

1440
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 3: I'm helping, and I'm.

1441
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 9: Have you been in touch with anyone who has come

1442
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 9: back yet?

1443
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 3: Well? Yeah.

1444
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 8: Actually, like early on in IRIS, when I was doing IRIS,

1445
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 8: there was like a few people that were staying a

1446
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 8: few days before they traveled onward and they just wanted

1447
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 8: to be around and help. There was also a dude

1448
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:55,520
Speaker 8: we just called him Columbia because he was from Colombia.

1449
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 8: It's kind of that nickname stuck and he stuck around.

1450
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 8: I mean, he got sponsored by are pretty much loosely

1451
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 8: sponsored by one of the organizers that was helping out

1452
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 8: of Wa and he stuck around.

1453
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 1: He came out to Ukumba a bunch of times.

1454
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 8: He killed it on everything he did, cooking dishes, whatever,

1455
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 8: you know, cleaning up whatever.

1456
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: He just he just saw that need.

1457
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 8: And yeah, I mean I've been in contact with a

1458
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 8: couple of people that said they would come out, and

1459
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 8: you know, I don't pressure them. I don't and a

1460
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 8: A I want pressure them to come out because they

1461
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 8: came here for you know, better life and all that.

1462
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 8: But at the same time, it's just hard to get

1463
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 8: back to some people because I've given them brought to

1464
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 8: way too many Kurdish people to get back to everyone

1465
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 8: on WhatsApp and that's you know, I got signal, I

1466
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 8: got regular text and.

1467
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: Then whatsappened That kind of gets buried.

1468
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 7: So Yeah, there was some Afghan folks out here in September,

1469
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 7: a few afgand folks who would come out. I think

1470
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 7: they had arrived either in May or perhaps earlier. But

1471
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 7: there were some afcron folks who came out and we're

1472
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 7: able to help us, of course, like it's great because

1473
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 7: we don't all have all the languages we need, and

1474
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 7: we don't have all the skills we need, and so

1475
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 7: the more people we can incorporate, even if temporarily well

1476
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 7: they're here, then like the better we can help people, right.

1477
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,679
Speaker 8: Right, yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, I mean, but I think

1478
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 8: definitely the the the vibe is there that they want

1479
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 8: to come help.

1480
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: And yeah, like the other day I was feeding. We're

1481
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: doing a hot.

1482
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 8: Dinner and we set up and everything, and then all

1483
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:22,879
Speaker 8: these Kurdish people because I you know, will.

1484
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 10: Wear this caffee like a like a scuff yeah, with

1485
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 10: the scarf that that you gave me, uh all the

1486
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 10: way from comieshla, and so they recognize it.

1487
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: And then I know, the saying is bitja Kurdistan. When

1488
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 1: you know.

1489
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,600
Speaker 8: You you from Turkey, oh you Kurdish because most of

1490
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 8: the people from Turkey are Kurdish, not all the most,

1491
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 8: And so you know, we'll start talking and then you know,

1492
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:50,679
Speaker 8: they get all excited and then they would just want

1493
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,560
Speaker 8: to help, you know. And I think even regardless of

1494
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 8: if I said that or not, or had the scarf on,

1495
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 8: they would still just want to help.

1496
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:57,879
Speaker 1: Remember one time.

1497
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 8: I was surrounded, it was just me serve being one

1498
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 8: of the things because we'll serve multiple things water like

1499
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 8: a soup, and then a rice or a bread or whatever,

1500
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 8: and then maybe some hand wipes or something. And so

1501
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 8: we just had it was just me in the middle,

1502
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 8: surrounded my Kurdish people, and I remember the dude next

1503
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 8: to me.

1504
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 3: It was just like someone videotape.

1505
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:19,679
Speaker 8: Yeah, we Kurdish people help really well, yeah, tell the world,

1506
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 8: you know.

1507
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, and then like even yeah, when we're not doing

1508
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 7: food soup, it's like guys will often come up to

1509
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 7: me and be like, hey, do you have bin bags.

1510
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 7: We'd like to clean up. We'd like it's a mess

1511
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 7: here and we'd like to clean up.

1512
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, we're unloading every time I'm loading, Like that's as

1513
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 8: cell phone charging station. Everyone like it doesn't matter, you

1514
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 8: know what nationality. Someone is there to help. They're like, oh,

1515
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 8: can I grab the table? Can I do this? How

1516
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 8: can I plug this?

1517
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: In a lot of times there plugging and I'm like, no,

1518
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: I got this the certain way. I like to plug

1519
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 1: this all in that makes sense and.

1520
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 3: Relatively high risk activity.

1521
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 7: I don't want any electrocution or like the other day,

1522
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 7: I was chomping some stuff with an axe and a

1523
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 7: guy wanted to help and I was like, look, if

1524
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 7: I hurt myself, then I can get to hospital. If

1525
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 7: you hurt yourself, it's going to be a rough I

1526
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 7: mean that.

1527
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: Could have been a stick it out. Yea, he might

1528
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:05,719
Speaker 1: have purposely hurt himself at that point.

1529
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 3: He had his whole family.

1530
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, we build shelters and like, some people

1531
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 7: are are really good at that, and they're good at

1532
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 7: tying knots, and they're good at seeing things in three

1533
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 7: D and some people are not. So like often just

1534
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 7: get a team of people who can help, and then

1535
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 7: you'll get a team of people who need shelter. So

1536
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 7: we'll just career to round booting shelters for people. And

1537
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 7: it's fun, Like it can't I'm sure it's not a

1538
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 7: very stimulating environment out there, you know. So being engaged

1539
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 7: in a talk, completing stuff and helping people, I'm sure

1540
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 7: he's rewarding.

1541
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 8: Or like, yeah, even tonight we had a dude from

1542
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 8: Turkey who just like was holding his head. Tia one

1543
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,839
Speaker 8: of our local residents. She lives around here. Medically, she's

1544
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 8: doesn't have a whole lot of medical experience other than

1545
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 8: being a mother or a grandmother and working in as

1546
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 8: a pharmacy tech and knowing a little bit about it

1547
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 8: and learning and being super badass. She came to me

1548
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 8: and she's like, look, this guy has a headache. Here's

1549
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 8: a migraine, and he has medication from so this is

1550
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:04,719
Speaker 8: obviously like an ongoing situation. And my eyes were hurting

1551
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 8: just from all the smoke from the fires that they

1552
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 8: were starting.

1553
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 1: In the area.

1554
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 8: And he's just sitting there holding his head, clearly, just

1555
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 8: absolutely miserable. So she took him in her car just

1556
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 8: to like give some heater and to warm them up

1557
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 8: and to try to make him feel better, get him

1558
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 8: away from the smoke. And she's like, yo, we gotta

1559
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 8: get this guy. He's here traveling alone from Turkey. He

1560
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 8: doesn't have anybody. So we went and found some more

1561
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,080
Speaker 8: I think he was Kurdish as well. We went and

1562
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 8: found another Turkish person or Kurdish person from Turkey, and

1563
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 8: I grabbed this this person and I was like, hey,

1564
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 8: I have somebody here who has a gnarly migraine and

1565
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:40,840
Speaker 8: they just they.

1566
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 1: Need their heir alone. They don't have shelter they need.

1567
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 8: And so this guy came over and talked to him

1568
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 8: and was like, look I got we got a tent

1569
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 8: over here, come camp with us. Like that's the kind

1570
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,600
Speaker 8: of shit that we have to deal with, you know

1571
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 8: what I mean, Just like the migrants will like getting

1572
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 8: a migrant to help another migrant, you know, it's just

1573
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:57,560
Speaker 8: like it's community.

1574
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: That's what like Mutual eight is about.

1575
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 9: I think that and that specific situation, I had been

1576
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 9: talking to the group that took him in. I had

1577
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:08,560
Speaker 9: been talking with them and chatting with him, and I

1578
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 9: sat by the fire with them just talking about you know,

1579
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 9: what was your experience like and trying to get warm

1580
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 9: because God, it's cold out there, even for us volunteers,

1581
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 9: and you know, we're far away from the fires, and

1582
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,639
Speaker 9: it's really hard because you know, this road is cleared

1583
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 9: and so there's you know, there's no warmth out there

1584
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 9: by where they have to stand to get food. But

1585
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 9: what do I what I want out of highlight was

1586
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 9: that because we are interacting with these people as equals,

1587
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:37,799
Speaker 9: because we are coming here and seeing them as people,

1588
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 9: and we spend the time to talk with them and

1589
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 9: to build commune with them, we can build those connections

1590
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 9: which allow people like the gentleman with the migraine to

1591
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,599
Speaker 9: you know, be taken in and to have, you know,

1592
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 9: basically a temporary family while he's there and make sure

1593
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 9: that he's taken care of. And that's I think something

1594
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 9: that really highlights the strength of this type of organization

1595
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 9: and this type of work and this type of you know,

1596
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,640
Speaker 9: the way that our politics, the way that our ideals

1597
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:12,679
Speaker 9: really shine in this kind of setting.

1598
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's right. Like I've been around a

1599
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 7: lot of humanitarian crises and you know, refuse situations, and

1600
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 7: I think we're doing it really excellent. Do you have

1601
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 7: a stectually given the minimal funding and and sort of

1602
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 7: scale of access to resources that we have, we could

1603
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 7: do a lot more if we had a lot more money,

1604
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:30,520
Speaker 7: but we don't.

1605
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 8: You know, we're cooking on like a fucking burner with us. Yeah,

1606
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 8: we took up to a pro painting that's made out

1607
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 8: of an old cag that's just like if you turn

1608
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 8: it on wrong and let the gas bleed, you will

1609
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 8: blow yourself up. So it's just like like Sam Shaw is,

1610
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 8: you know, responsible for everybody at the youth center where

1611
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,759
Speaker 8: we do stuff, So he doesn't really like other people cooking,

1612
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 8: does it. I Mean, even though I know how to

1613
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:56,720
Speaker 8: do it, he's like, doesn't even like me doing it

1614
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 8: because he's responsible for me if anything were to happen.

1615
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 8: So it's like our capacity is super limited. We don't

1616
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 8: have enough burners, we don't have enough containers. So we

1617
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,600
Speaker 8: have a couple one really nice like locking containers that

1618
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 8: hold hot food and keep the food hot, but not

1619
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 8: enough to serve upwards of six hundred people at all

1620
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:16,640
Speaker 8: three camps, and not enough vans, like it would be ideal,

1621
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 8: like in my situation to send a van that has

1622
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 8: charging capabilities to charge everybody's cell phone, to feed everybody,

1623
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:27,799
Speaker 8: to give them water and all their needs, blankets, medical

1624
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 8: to each camp all at once. Instead of us driving,

1625
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,640
Speaker 8: it's cooking a massive amount of food of the UTH

1626
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 8: center and hoping we have enough to hit all three camps.

1627
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 8: Because the numbers we can try to call border patrol

1628
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 8: offices and get numbers, but the numbers are always a

1629
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 8: little skewed or just off, you know, or sometimes lately

1630
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 8: they have just been straight up not giving us the

1631
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 8: fucking numbers, like being dicks.

1632
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 1: Especially uh Campo.

1633
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,559
Speaker 8: Border Patrol Office, which because we deal with two different

1634
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:59,719
Speaker 8: Campo takes care of the boulevard open.

1635
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: Air to time and say, and then the Boulevard Border

1636
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 1: Vitel takes care.

1637
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 8: Of the willows in the moon camp in a kamba

1638
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 8: and straight up the boulevard Border Patrol called Campo Nazis.

1639
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 8: Like they treat their employees like nats. They're just Nazis,

1640
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 8: and I've seen it in fact.

1641
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, like we have to interact with board

1642
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 7: patrol a lot to get people the help that they need, right,

1643
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 7: but like, yeah, they're definitely some cases where like there

1644
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 7: have been certain people who are they the agent I

1645
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 7: spoke to you today for a border puol agent. He

1646
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:33,560
Speaker 7: was very accommodating. He took the person who was in

1647
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 7: medical distress and their partner. He drove them himself to

1648
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 7: where they could be ms and ensure that the pretuity

1649
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 7: they go to hospital, Like I don't have a whole

1650
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 7: lot of knowledge what happened afterwards that we don't have.

1651
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:48,600
Speaker 7: We're not entitled to their private medical information and not

1652
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 7: should we be. But like other times, it could be

1653
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 7: much harder. So it's just luck of the drawer, right,

1654
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 7: Like we there's so much we don't control, I guess, yeah,

1655
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 7: and like we don't know exactly, Like we can't control

1656
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 7: who goes when, who has the highest level of need,

1657
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 7: you know, like constantly people are be coming up to

1658
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 7: me and being like, hey, like today I was warming

1659
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 7: up milk for babies in my camping stove right and

1660
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 7: it was three or four babies, and they were like,

1661
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 7: do you think they'll take us first? We have babies,

1662
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 7: And like, I think most of the people there would

1663
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 7: rather give up their space and let that baby go

1664
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 7: out because no one wants to see a fucking baby

1665
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 7: shivering out there, like it's fucked, it's terrible, but we

1666
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 7: don't know, and we can't tell you and we can't

1667
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 7: help you. And so like a lot of that stuff's

1668
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,799
Speaker 7: outside of our control. But the stuff that's within our control,

1669
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 7: I think we've done a really good job of. I

1670
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 7: wonder like if people are listening, I think I just

1671
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 7: want to convey that we're all just weird, like a

1672
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 7: group of like we're not like ragcaging, extremely like Motley Crue,

1673
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 7: and but we we're really doing excellent work. I think

1674
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 7: if it may blow our trumpet, but like if people

1675
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:56,719
Speaker 7: want to come and help, first of all, I would

1676
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 7: like you probably can people think that they can't didn't

1677
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 7: have anything useful like a bag problem with you do

1678
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 7: like if you can, if you can like lift a

1679
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 7: ladle or like a palette of water bottles, or drive

1680
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 7: a vehicle, or like.

1681
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:16,720
Speaker 8: Multip multiple languages, sometimes it's like yeah, or even just right,

1682
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 8: or even just one language other than English, because I

1683
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,400
Speaker 8: mean even some people speak perfectly English out there, and

1684
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 8: so just going out there and paying attention to them,

1685
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:29,000
Speaker 8: even if you don't have the capacity to cook food

1686
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,600
Speaker 8: or to serve food or whatever, if you can go

1687
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 8: talk to people and you're sociable and you can make

1688
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 8: connections and listen to their needs.

1689
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 1: And you know, there's.

1690
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 8: Google Translate, there's we have a list of translators, like

1691
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 8: a form with numbers, so if you have a language barrier,

1692
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,000
Speaker 8: you can just call start calling down the line of

1693
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 8: numbers of Mandarin or this language or that language, and

1694
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 8: you can get I got a hold of somebody one

1695
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 8: time for Mandarin to figure out how many days they

1696
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 8: had been there, and it was like called a couple

1697
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 8: of people, first no answer, and then finally someone picked up.

1698
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 8: And so it's yeah, you know, anybody always you could

1699
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 8: always find something. Honestly, one thing that I missed doing,

1700
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 8: which when I first started coming out here, we had

1701
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 8: a little bit more volunteers, especially I was coming out

1702
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 8: on the weekends, when the weekends typically we have more

1703
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,160
Speaker 8: volunteers because people have jobs and the weekdays and week

1704
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 8: days we have less. But I was when I first

1705
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 8: started coming out to Komba on the weekends, I started

1706
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 8: bringing my guitar and my bongos and my you know,

1707
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:27,080
Speaker 8: different instruments, tambourines, and I remember we gave out all

1708
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:29,599
Speaker 8: the instruments to the migrants at night while we were

1709
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 8: giving them dinner to they were around the campfire and

1710
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 8: so that they can play and enjoy themselves and lift

1711
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 8: their spirits and so like that would be rad to

1712
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 8: have somebody on spot all the time with a guitar

1713
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 8: and like jamming with the migrants and lifting their spirits

1714
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 8: because it's they're miserable. And one dude from Muzbekistan once

1715
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:49,880
Speaker 8: told me spoke really good English, and in fact he

1716
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 8: told me about there's like commercials and so he worked

1717
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 8: at like a center where they send people over here.

1718
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

1719
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, like he was on the call center or whatever

1720
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 8: for it or something like that. But well, I was like, well,

1721
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:02,599
Speaker 8: like how was it? Like I he was like, honestly,

1722
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 8: we're just bored. Yeah, like they're just waiting and at

1723
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,839
Speaker 8: that time, like the weights were like four or five days.

1724
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:11,599
Speaker 1: You know, it changes, it vary.

1725
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 8: As it goes from two to three to four or five,

1726
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 8: and the distensions, and sometimes they get out the same

1727
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 8: day if they're lucky. But yeah, it was just we're

1728
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,840
Speaker 8: bored and we're just waiting and they're anxious, and which

1729
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 8: also just tears at their spirit while they're you know,

1730
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 8: their first day in America, you know.

1731
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, like welcome to America, sleeping with Jesseet.

1732
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 7: It's like just above freezing.

1733
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, and here's no blankets, no structures, no anything, no food,

1734
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 8: no water, and if you're lucky, border patrol will bring

1735
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 8: crackers and water for not enough people.

1736
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, and yeah, a bunch of US waiters turn up

1737
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 7: with blankets and that's it.

1738
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1739
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 9: And I know that even if it's you know, I

1740
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 9: try and include other people. But even just like I

1741
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 9: go out there with my guitar sometimes and there's a

1742
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:00,759
Speaker 9: lull and or we're waiting to pack up or whatever,

1743
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 9: and I'll be playing and I think that little moments

1744
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 9: like that mean everything for these folks. And I know

1745
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 9: that I've you know, I'll bring up that I have.

1746
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:13,320
Speaker 9: You know, on a day that I don't have my guitar,

1747
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 9: I'll bring up that I play it and the migrants

1748
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 9: will be all excited, wanting me to bring it out

1749
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 9: or wanting me to to you know, whatever the activity

1750
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 9: may be, just to stimulate, you know, their minds a

1751
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,839
Speaker 9: little bit. I mean, this is it's it's really bleak

1752
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 9: and being there for for days, for just stuck in

1753
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 9: the desert with nothing to do, right, And I mean sometimes,

1754
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 9: you know, I've seen a soccer ball out there that

1755
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 9: the kids play with, and that's that's so heartwight warming.

1756
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 9: Things like that that really, you know, we want these

1757
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:51,560
Speaker 9: people to feel like they can still be in community

1758
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 9: with each other like they're not. And I feel like

1759
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,720
Speaker 9: things like that really help to repair that sense of

1760
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 9: desperation because right now, with the level of desperation, we

1761
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 9: do see a lot of fighting for supplies, a lot

1762
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 9: of fighting for resources because it's it's hard. It's hard

1763
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 9: out there. People want to make sure that their kids

1764
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 9: have blankets. People are so cold they can't sleep, and

1765
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 9: I feel like things that bring them together, activities that

1766
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 9: really make them feel like a community out there and

1767
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 9: help us feel in community with them allows us to

1768
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 9: have a more cohesive relationship and allows things to go

1769
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,879
Speaker 9: more smoothly. And I think it's, you know, in some cases,

1770
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 9: more important than the supplies themselves, because it makes sure

1771
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 9: that they go to the right places. It helps us triage,

1772
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 9: It helps us, you know, it's its own tool for

1773
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 9: survivals from.

1774
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:50,360
Speaker 8: It, it could distract them from their suffering. You know,

1775
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 8: if they can have an ounce of joy, you know,

1776
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 8: and this horrible condition, in these horrible conditions, it'll distract

1777
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:00,680
Speaker 8: them enough to smile and to laugh and to not

1778
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:01,480
Speaker 8: be miserable.

1779
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a normal moment. Yeah.

1780
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 7: So I wonder if people want to help, what other

1781
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 7: ways that they can help.

1782
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,639
Speaker 8: Ways it can help are are coming out here directly,

1783
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:19,040
Speaker 8: hands on the ground. Money donating money is another huge

1784
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:22,559
Speaker 8: need because a lot of the supplies that we need

1785
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:26,640
Speaker 8: cost money. We need a new kitchen, We need you know,

1786
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 8: a dishwashing station because we're currently just dumping all of

1787
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 8: our dish washing water into a lawn that has a

1788
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 8: small drain. Yeah, and yeah, I look to Alatto is

1789
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:44,600
Speaker 8: one organization that takes money that you can donate to.

1790
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 1: Border Kindness is another one.

1791
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, I know, Detention Resistance is out here a lot.

1792
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 8: The most direct way too, is would be donating directly

1793
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:55,719
Speaker 8: to Sam Schultz himself.

1794
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1795
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 8: So yeah, and just you know, following those same organizations,

1796
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 8: They're a Free Shit Collective is another one.

1797
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:07,120
Speaker 1: They mostly focus on W eight.

1798
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 8: But this is all related, right, Like, I we had

1799
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 8: this man from Turkey who came with his dog bom

1800
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 8: bomb or bam bam, like he said Flintstones, but they

1801
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 8: say bomb bomb, I guess. And he was stuck in

1802
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:23,760
Speaker 8: one of the camps and so you know, we re

1803
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:27,000
Speaker 8: like took his dog because he was not going to

1804
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 8: be taken from the camp. He spent the night alone

1805
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 8: because they had enough room for him. They're just like,

1806
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 8: they don't know how to process a fucking dog, I guess.

1807
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 8: So we took his dog for him and so he

1808
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 8: could get processed. And once he ended up out of

1809
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 8: detention at Central, which is where they released them, we

1810
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:46,559
Speaker 8: reunited his dog with him. Very emotional on both sides

1811
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:47,760
Speaker 8: of the separation.

1812
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: And the reuniting.

1813
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 8: So you know, there's all these organizations you can you know,

1814
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 8: volunteer down in Central at the when they release you

1815
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 8: can you know this and so yeah, but following all

1816
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:00,799
Speaker 8: these accounts share the stories.

1817
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

1818
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 8: On your social medias be it Twitter, I'll never call

1819
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 8: it the other thing, or you know, Instagram, Facebook, whatever

1820
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 8: your media is.

1821
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:11,679
Speaker 1: Discord YadA YadA.

1822
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think even sharing the stories is really powerful.

1823
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 7: People could translate, they can reach out, they want to

1824
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:21,080
Speaker 7: do that. I looked up the r L it's for

1825
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:25,560
Speaker 7: border Kindness. It's link tr dot ee slash border kindness,

1826
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 7: and for it's al alado a l O t r

1827
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:34,120
Speaker 7: O l a d o dot org slash donate.

1828
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: And they pay me to be out here, so please

1829
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 1: don't it to them.

1830
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, help them border kindas. Jackie and James are great,

1831
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 8: They're always out here. It's yeah, either one is wonderful.

1832
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1833
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:49,799
Speaker 9: I also wanted to highlight the lovely mutual aid groups

1834
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:52,719
Speaker 9: that do a lot of work. There's not as many

1835
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 9: of them directly putting their efforts out here, but I

1836
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:57,840
Speaker 9: know that they have helped me work out here and

1837
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,040
Speaker 9: make sure that I have the funds I need to,

1838
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:04,000
Speaker 9: you know, do little store runs that are necessary on

1839
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:06,360
Speaker 9: a on a moment's notice at times because we we

1840
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 9: run out of something and we can't wait for a

1841
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 9: bulk order supply and the you know there. There are

1842
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 9: these mutual aid groups, you know, they they put in

1843
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,760
Speaker 9: the work to reimburse folks when we do things like that,

1844
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 9: when we have to go make runs because we can't

1845
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,080
Speaker 9: bulk order, we can't do it the most efficient way

1846
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 9: because we have a need right now. And that has

1847
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 9: saved us in a lot of different moments, especially I

1848
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 9: used to volunteer down at W eight in sanny Sidro,

1849
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 9: and that was the primary way that we got resources

1850
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:46,639
Speaker 9: was through these mutual aid groups who who fundraise and

1851
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 9: and I yeah, I just wanted to highlight them and

1852
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:54,280
Speaker 9: highlight the So there's the Rose Cup Collective. I know

1853
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 9: that they do a lot of fundraising. I know that

1854
01:37:57,160 --> 01:38:01,800
Speaker 9: you were saying free Ship, Free Shit Collective. There's a

1855
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 9: few freestore SD Yeah, there's a there's a few different

1856
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:09,519
Speaker 9: ones who you know, their funds help keep us running,

1857
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:12,760
Speaker 9: especially in the hardest of times right now.

1858
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we're all broke. We're so broke. We we

1859
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:19,759
Speaker 3: have no money, any money.

1860
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 8: I'm on the migrant diet because I'm broke and eating

1861
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 8: the food that we feed them when there's leftovers.

1862
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1863
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, we've been a lot of PB and J and

1864
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:32,599
Speaker 7: beans help us, help us feed ourselves and that was wonderful.

1865
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 7: Thank you so much. Yeah, everyone listening to your.

1866
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 3: Do name, thank you. Yeah, and come down here.

1867
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 7: If someone came from San Francisco in May, come back,

1868
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 7: Like there are places you can stay are in the

1869
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:45,519
Speaker 7: desert if you want to come and help. But even

1870
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 7: if you have language skills like we there were so

1871
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:49,760
Speaker 7: many ways you can help.

1872
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 4: Come down.

1873
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 9: I've always had a place to stay, even though I like,

1874
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 9: like of all I've I've always been ready to sleep

1875
01:38:58,080 --> 01:38:59,639
Speaker 9: in my van, but always had a spot to say,

1876
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 9: come down. It's you know, it's worth it. It's there's

1877
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:08,600
Speaker 9: a vortex they called the locals call it. Call it

1878
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 9: a vortex. You know. You you come here and it's

1879
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 9: like every past lifetime has has been here, and you're

1880
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 9: you're destined to be here. There's something special about this

1881
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 9: town and I've really fallen in love with it since coming.

1882
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:22,479
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I hope more people come.

1883
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 7: It would mean a lot to me if like we

1884
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 7: could do something cool and like further support something that's

1885
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 7: very important to me and I think very important for

1886
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 7: the world.

1887
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:32,800
Speaker 1: Totally. It's sick.

1888
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 2: Oh boy, howdy, welcome back to It could happen here.

1889
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 2: A podcast about about those wacky gen Z kids. Uh,

1890
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:03,080
Speaker 2: and how all of the things that the mainstream media

1891
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 2: used to say about millennials I have now embraced to

1892
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 2: say about gen Z who are destroying the world through

1893
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:18,640
Speaker 2: their through their greed and evilness and good knees comparatively. Yeah, Miah,

1894
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:20,000
Speaker 2: how are you doing? You're you're gen Z?

1895
01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 1: Right?

1896
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm on okay, I am on the exact

1897
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:29,600
Speaker 3: borderline of I am either the oldest Zoomer or the

1898
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:30,600
Speaker 3: youngest millennial.

1899
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:33,800
Speaker 2: So you're you're a day walker, right like you're the

1900
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 2: you're the Blade of gen Z. Yeah, yeah, okay, so

1901
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 2: you could go out in the sunlight onions, but you

1902
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 2: still need blood.

1903
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:42,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it, I get it.

1904
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:46,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's the Chris Christal I guess I'm the Chris Christofferson.

1905
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 2: If we're doing the original Blade movie, which I watched

1906
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,640
Speaker 2: over Thanksaving Break, pretty good. I hadn't seen it in

1907
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:57,759
Speaker 2: like fucking twenty years, but solid movie, solid movie.

1908
01:40:57,840 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 3: I feel like it's kind of downhill from the Blood Rim.

1909
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:02,240
Speaker 3: But the Blood Rave is pretty sick. It's all every

1910
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 3: everything in culture was downhill from Blood Rave. But yeah,

1911
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:09,880
Speaker 3: it's got some it's got some good bits to it still,

1912
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 3: you know what doesn't have good bits to it the

1913
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 3: institution of marriage.

1914
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 2: That I mean, I don't disagree with that, but I

1915
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:24,160
Speaker 2: was going to say the Washington Post editorial.

1916
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 3: Board, Ah, you know, yeah, so.

1917
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 2: We are talking is that this is an episode about

1918
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 2: some gin z panic shit that came out recently that

1919
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 2: I felt was worth digging into because of the pretty

1920
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 2: interesting ways in which it's wrong if you were, you know,

1921
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 2: celebrating being with your family, eating turkey or just shooting

1922
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 2: up Heroin alone in the bathroom. Last week, on November

1923
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:50,639
Speaker 2: twenty second, twenty twenty three, the Washington Post Editorial Board

1924
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:54,640
Speaker 2: published an opinion column with the provocative title, if attitudes

1925
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 2: don't shift, a political dating mismatch will threaten marriage.

1926
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah, I want this destroy the institution.

1927
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, we're doing this through a political dating mismatch.

1928
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:08,840
Speaker 3: Now.

1929
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:14,599
Speaker 2: I think an article with roughly this premise drops every year,

1930
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,599
Speaker 2: sometimes a couple of times a year, on a couple

1931
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 2: of different places. This time it came in through the

1932
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 2: Washington Post Editorial Board, and the basic premise of this

1933
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:27,800
Speaker 2: specific article is that gen Z and millennial men are

1934
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:33,120
Speaker 2: growing more conservative while women are growing more progressive. This

1935
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:37,360
Speaker 2: threatens marriage as an institution because all these closed minded

1936
01:42:37,439 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 2: gen Z lib broads won't date Republicans right. That is

1937
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 2: literally like the point of the article is a gen

1938
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 2: Z liberal women they are less willing to date outside

1939
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 2: of their political beliefs, and men are getting more conservative,

1940
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:55,560
Speaker 2: so it's really a danger for marriage. Now, I understand

1941
01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:58,000
Speaker 2: if your first impulse is to say something like, well,

1942
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:00,800
Speaker 2: when has the Washington Post editorial board ever been right

1943
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 2: about a single goddamn thing? And that is a correct

1944
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 2: attitude to have.

1945
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:08,679
Speaker 3: Sometimes they make the decision not to publish an article.

1946
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:11,400
Speaker 3: There are some days where they don't write anything.

1947
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:13,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to. That is a good decision. If

1948
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:16,599
Speaker 2: they made that decision every day, I would be fully

1949
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:19,760
Speaker 2: supportive of the Washington Post editorial board. And if they'll

1950
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,200
Speaker 2: hire me, I can make that decision for them every day.

1951
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm very good at not doing anything. That said, even

1952
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 2: though it is correct to say the Washington Post editorial

1953
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:35,719
Speaker 2: boarder basically always wrong, I've still run into overwhelming numbers

1954
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:38,120
Speaker 2: of my peers who think this article is silly, but

1955
01:43:38,280 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 2: still buy into the basic points in this piece. This

1956
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:45,599
Speaker 2: is generally married to a widespread belief which is actually

1957
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 2: cited in the article that toxic male influencers like Andrew

1958
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 2: Tait have tilted huge numbers of young men to the right.

1959
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:54,200
Speaker 2: So even though people will be like, well, it's stupid

1960
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:56,759
Speaker 2: to expect people to date, you know, folks who believe

1961
01:43:56,920 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 2: horrible political things that would hurt them, it's true that

1962
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 2: men are getting more young men are getting more conservative, right,

1963
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:07,799
Speaker 2: and this is I think generally down to this belief

1964
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 2: that has I don't think people examine often. They just

1965
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 2: sort of like they get concerned about the popularity of

1966
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 2: guys like Tate, which is valid, he's concerning, but assume

1967
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:20,519
Speaker 2: that does mean that, like, yeah, we're losing the young men.

1968
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 2: They've all been tilted towards these guys. And so without

1969
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,680
Speaker 2: discounting the damage of dudes like Tate, I wanted to

1970
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:30,599
Speaker 2: give a breakdown of how common the so called right

1971
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 2: word tilt of young men actually is because spoilers, this

1972
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:37,559
Speaker 2: is a pernicious bit of disinformation, and I think it

1973
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:41,679
Speaker 2: kind of blackpills a lot of people unnecessarily. Let's start

1974
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 2: with the obvious point here. Young men are not growing

1975
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 2: more conservative across the board than men of other generations.

1976
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 2: So first off, I want to read you a quote

1977
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:54,759
Speaker 2: from this Post editorial. Since mister Trump's election in twenty sixteen,

1978
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 2: the percentage of young women ages eighteen to thirty who

1979
01:44:57,360 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 2: identify as liberal has shot up from slightly over twenty

1980
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 2: percent to thirty two percent. Young men have not followed suit,

1981
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 2: If anything, they have grown more conservative now that claim

1982
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,600
Speaker 2: is based, You want to guess, did they cite a

1983
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 2: bunch of different sources to prove like that it's a

1984
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:19,120
Speaker 2: really widespread problem, or do they have a single statorial

1985
01:45:19,240 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 2: board they have?

1986
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 3: Those people could not find a second study if you

1987
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 3: nailed it to their face, they share, couldn't they share?

1988
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:31,280
Speaker 3: Couldn't they googled real quickly? Or I'm not even gonna

1989
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:33,599
Speaker 3: give them credit for googling. One of their friends who

1990
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 3: works at a right wing think tank sent them a

1991
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 3: survey from that right wing think tank, because that the

1992
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:42,519
Speaker 3: entire statistical basis of that claim is a study by

1993
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:46,240
Speaker 3: the American Enterprise Institute, which is a center right think

1994
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 3: tank that tends to produce center rights surveys. And even then,

1995
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:54,640
Speaker 3: the study that they are actually citing doesn't show what

1996
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 3: the Post editorial board claims. Again their claims, young men

1997
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 3: have not followed suit if anything, they have grown more conservative, right,

1998
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 3: young men, So they are talking across the board about

1999
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:08,799
Speaker 3: gen Z and millennial males, right, I'm going to quote

2000
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 3: from that study. Previous research identified a growing gap and

2001
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:16,760
Speaker 3: ideological orientation between young men and women. The gender gap

2002
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,040
Speaker 3: in liberal identity is notable among members of Generation Z,

2003
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:23,200
Speaker 3: but it's relatively modest. Forty three percent of gen Z

2004
01:46:23,320 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 3: women identify as liberal compared to thirty five percent of

2005
01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:29,599
Speaker 3: gen Z men. However, the gender divide among white, non

2006
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:33,280
Speaker 3: Hispanic gen Z adults is considerable, close to half. Forty

2007
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:35,760
Speaker 3: six percent of gen Z women are liberal, a far

2008
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,040
Speaker 3: greater share than white gen Z men, among whom only

2009
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:42,400
Speaker 3: twenty eight percent identify as liberal. Among gen Z adults,

2010
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 3: white men are significantly more likely than white women to

2011
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,760
Speaker 3: identify as politically conservative thirty six percent versus twenty six percent.

2012
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:50,679
Speaker 3: So you see what number one the study is doing there?

2013
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:53,559
Speaker 3: Is it saying forty three percent of gen Z women

2014
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:57,200
Speaker 3: all gen Z women identify as liberal, whereas and then

2015
01:46:57,240 --> 01:47:00,160
Speaker 3: it goes to thirty six percent of white gens Z

2016
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:04,880
Speaker 3: men identify it. It's switching it on them, right. And

2017
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:08,080
Speaker 3: while it does eventually acknowledge the differences where because it

2018
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 3: says that like across the board, all gen Z men

2019
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 3: thirty five percent or conservative, forty three percent of gen

2020
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 3: Z women are liberal. That's not a massive gap, right.

2021
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,640
Speaker 3: The Washington Post editorial board just makes the claim that

2022
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:22,680
Speaker 3: young men have grown more conservative, which is not supported

2023
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 3: by the study. And also the study is specifically talking

2024
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 3: about how gen Z white men have gotten more conservative. Right,

2025
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:33,400
Speaker 3: very different things being claimed here. So the Post just

2026
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 3: ignored what was actually in the survey to claim all

2027
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 3: young men, not just young white men, are more conservative,

2028
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 3: not just gen Z white men are more conservative. Now,

2029
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:46,240
Speaker 3: this is weird, But even if you take the study,

2030
01:47:46,280 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 3: which is misrepresented by the editorial board at its face value,

2031
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:52,519
Speaker 3: that study does not gel with all of the other

2032
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:55,479
Speaker 3: data that we have. Now, when I went through this,

2033
01:47:55,640 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 3: it was hard to find good data on just gen

2034
01:47:58,439 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 3: Z men. That is not broken out in most of

2035
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:03,080
Speaker 3: the studies that we get. But we do have some

2036
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:06,960
Speaker 3: information on how gen Z adult men voted as a

2037
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 3: group in the twenty twenty two midterms, and that data

2038
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:14,839
Speaker 3: is telling. Based on the twenty twenty two midterms, seventy

2039
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:17,560
Speaker 3: one percent of young women, that's a that's gen Z

2040
01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 3: mostly gen Z eighteen to twenty nine, So I think

2041
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:23,080
Speaker 3: gen Z taps out at twenty six right now. So

2042
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:27,880
Speaker 3: presumably a percentage of the people in this are technically millennials,

2043
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:30,679
Speaker 3: but they're yeah, they're like you, they're day walkers. Yeah,

2044
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:34,519
Speaker 3: that's like what like, oh my god, I can't I

2045
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 3: can't do math live on air.

2046
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 2: I think it's like twenty seven to forty something is

2047
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 2: the millennials.

2048
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:43,439
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna say it's close enough to this. This

2049
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:44,719
Speaker 3: is closes. It's only like.

2050
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:47,240
Speaker 2: Three years of people, yeah, right exactly, and they're the

2051
01:48:47,280 --> 01:48:49,280
Speaker 2: three years that are that are right in the middle.

2052
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 2: But of that of these voters in the twenty twenty

2053
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 2: two midterms, seventy one percent of young women voted for Democrats,

2054
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:58,920
Speaker 2: twenty six percent voted for Republicans, fifty three percent of

2055
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 2: young men voted for Democrats, forty two percent voted for Republicans.

2056
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:08,280
Speaker 2: And among LGBT, and again this is not broken down

2057
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:13,080
Speaker 2: male or female, ninety three percent voted for Democrats, and overall,

2058
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:16,960
Speaker 2: among non LGBT youth, fifty eight percent voted for Democrats,

2059
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 2: thirty eight percent voted for Republicans. So again not massive

2060
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:26,799
Speaker 2: discrepancies here, and one thing that may help to explain

2061
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:28,880
Speaker 2: this that again is not really broken down in the

2062
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 2: Washington Post editorial is that while gen Z white men

2063
01:49:33,160 --> 01:49:36,879
Speaker 2: have are more conservative compared to like gen Z millennial

2064
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 2: white men, gen Z itself is a lot less white

2065
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:43,599
Speaker 2: than prior generations, which means overall gen Z men are

2066
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 2: not really getting more conservative. About fifty five percent of

2067
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:52,599
Speaker 2: gen Z is white compared to about seventy percent of boomers. Right,

2068
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:56,400
Speaker 2: So this is one major reason why. Again this because

2069
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:59,000
Speaker 2: again if you actually factor in all of gen Z,

2070
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 2: there's not this huge worry about like a marriage discrepancy

2071
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:06,280
Speaker 2: as long as you assume that people, you know that

2072
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:09,920
Speaker 2: interracial dating is not a problem for most people the

2073
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:12,719
Speaker 2: way it is for apparently the Washington Post editorial board.

2074
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:16,599
Speaker 2: Now there's a couple of caveats here. One is that

2075
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:20,799
Speaker 2: midterm voters are historically more engaged and educated than voters

2076
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:25,080
Speaker 2: of other generations. However, that may not necessarily hold true

2077
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:28,160
Speaker 2: with gen Z or millennial voters today due to a

2078
01:50:28,200 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 2: variety of factors. One worthwhile point is that young people

2079
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 2: tend to be driven far more by what they encounter

2080
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:36,760
Speaker 2: through social media, which is probably part of why gen

2081
01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:39,519
Speaker 2: Z and millennial voters consider abortion to be a more

2082
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,320
Speaker 2: important thing to vote on than the economy by a

2083
01:50:42,360 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 2: margin that bears no resemblance to older generations. This is

2084
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 2: why we've actually seen unless four elections soaring youth voter turnout,

2085
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:54,040
Speaker 2: particularly during the midterms, record levels of youth voting, Which

2086
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's completely wrong that midterm voters may be

2087
01:50:56,880 --> 01:50:59,639
Speaker 2: a bit more engaged and educated, but that's probably less

2088
01:50:59,640 --> 01:51:01,600
Speaker 2: of a factor for young voters that it is for

2089
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 2: older generations. Right, some of the conventional wisdom about who

2090
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 2: votes when is not as accurate when we're talking about

2091
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:12,880
Speaker 2: younger people. This is not something that you can prove objectively,

2092
01:51:12,920 --> 01:51:16,600
Speaker 2: but there's there's significant, sort of circumstantial evidence around this.

2093
01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:21,960
Speaker 2: Speaking of circumstances, you know what circumstances get me to

2094
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:23,680
Speaker 2: spend my money?

2095
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:26,320
Speaker 3: Is it being served products and services.

2096
01:51:26,479 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 2: It's well, it's when those products and services advertise on

2097
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:35,919
Speaker 2: this podcast and only this podcast. So check that shit out, homies,

2098
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:38,759
Speaker 2: ah and we're back.

2099
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 3: So yeah.

2100
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:42,720
Speaker 2: One of the you know, overall points to make that

2101
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:44,680
Speaker 2: I think goes against this kind of panic a lot

2102
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:46,960
Speaker 2: of people have that gen Z is somehow being like

2103
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:51,200
Speaker 2: pilled away from progressive politics, is that as a result

2104
01:51:51,240 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 2: of stuff, primarily abortion. Gen Z voters supported Democrats over

2105
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:59,679
Speaker 2: Republicans in the midterm elections by and astonishing twenty seven points.

2106
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 2: This is again a large part of this came down

2107
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:06,519
Speaker 2: to abortion, which gen Z voters prioritize by a higher

2108
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:09,280
Speaker 2: amount than any other generation. One of the things that

2109
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,080
Speaker 2: was noted in one of the studies I found is

2110
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:14,679
Speaker 2: like a potential line of hope for Republicans is that

2111
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:16,760
Speaker 2: while this and this is part of where I think

2112
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:20,799
Speaker 2: some of the fear mongering and these Washington Post articles

2113
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:22,479
Speaker 2: comes from, although I don't think it says what they

2114
01:52:22,520 --> 01:52:26,200
Speaker 2: think it says is that lower numbers of young people

2115
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 2: support specific parties. Right, so only about thirty percent of

2116
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:34,599
Speaker 2: gen zs align with Democrats compared to twenty four percent

2117
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:37,920
Speaker 2: of Republicans. And if you just look at that, that's

2118
01:52:38,160 --> 01:52:38,639
Speaker 2: way less.

2119
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:39,639
Speaker 3: That seems like.

2120
01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:43,160
Speaker 2: You're seeing like these numbers sort of kind of tighten up.

2121
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 2: But again, they still voted over Democrats of Republicans by

2122
01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:50,360
Speaker 2: twenty seven points. It's just that gen Z is less

2123
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 2: loyal to political parties, which doesn't necessarily mean that progressivism

2124
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:56,719
Speaker 2: is in danger, just means that most young people hate

2125
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:57,440
Speaker 2: the Democrats.

2126
01:52:57,479 --> 01:52:59,400
Speaker 3: Too, and that could. And the other thing is like

2127
01:52:59,400 --> 01:53:01,799
Speaker 3: the thing that actually legit and I think this is legitimately.

2128
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 3: A part of it is like, well, okay, so what happened.

2129
01:53:03,640 --> 01:53:05,479
Speaker 3: What's happening to all those people? And the answer is

2130
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,920
Speaker 3: they're becoming socialists And it's like, well that doesn't help

2131
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:10,519
Speaker 3: the public cans either, Yeah.

2132
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:12,599
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's it's I mean, part of it

2133
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,840
Speaker 2: is that more young people identify with like kind of

2134
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 2: more politically radical chunks of progressivism. Part of it is

2135
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,000
Speaker 2: that a lot more of them identify as independent and

2136
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:25,160
Speaker 2: may not have may not identify themselves super much as

2137
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:30,440
Speaker 2: a specific political chunk, but in general, like they vote progressive,

2138
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:34,000
Speaker 2: they just don't have any faith in like the ossified

2139
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:37,439
Speaker 2: political structures in our society, which is a rational thing

2140
01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:39,200
Speaker 2: to do as a young person.

2141
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 1: Right.

2142
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:42,959
Speaker 2: So I also want to address kind of the elephant

2143
01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:44,760
Speaker 2: in the room with this piece, which is that the

2144
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:48,640
Speaker 2: Washington Post editorial Board's obsession with political divide among the

2145
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:53,280
Speaker 2: young harming marriage specifically, is also kind of gay panicky, right,

2146
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:56,400
Speaker 2: because one of the reasons why there seems to be

2147
01:53:56,439 --> 01:53:59,040
Speaker 2: this divide that they see as like this threatens marriage

2148
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 2: is that a higher percentage of gen Z kids are

2149
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:04,240
Speaker 2: less interested in straight marriage. And these gen Z kids,

2150
01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 2: male and female, are not getting more conservative, but they're

2151
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 2: also presumably not going to do the kind of marriage

2152
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:14,439
Speaker 2: that the Washington Post editorial board was right. I'm going

2153
01:54:14,479 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 2: to quote from a Time magazine right up here. In

2154
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 2: late twenty twenty and early twenty twenty one, gen Z

2155
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:22,839
Speaker 2: was the only US generation in which a majority believed

2156
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:25,519
Speaker 2: there are more than two genders. As recently as the

2157
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:28,160
Speaker 2: first half of twenty twenty, this was a minority opinion

2158
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:30,880
Speaker 2: even among Gen zs, a remarkable amount of change over

2159
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:33,440
Speaker 2: just six months. In contrast, there was only a small

2160
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:36,760
Speaker 2: uptick in this belief among older generations. That type of

2161
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:39,640
Speaker 2: data is finally available. Starting in June twenty twenty one,

2162
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:42,959
Speaker 2: the US Census Bureau offered four options on its Household

2163
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:47,160
Speaker 2: Pulse survey question about gender male, female, transgender, and none

2164
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 2: of these. The last a rough gauge of those who

2165
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 2: identify as non binary, gender fluid, or another gender identity.

2166
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 2: With that more terrible way of phrasing that court, it's

2167
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:58,080
Speaker 2: not a great way. It's better than nothing, but yeah,

2168
01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:02,600
Speaker 2: it's not God with more than with more than a

2169
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:06,000
Speaker 2: million respondents. The survey is large enough to provide accurate estimates.

2170
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 2: The results are clear. Gen Z young adults are much

2171
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 2: more likely to report identifying as either trans or non

2172
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:13,560
Speaker 2: binary than other generations. Well, only one out of a

2173
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:16,720
Speaker 2: thousand boomers report they are transgender one tenth of one percent.

2174
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:19,520
Speaker 2: Twenty three out of one thousand gen Z young adults

2175
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 2: two point three percent identify as trans twenty times more.

2176
01:55:23,320 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 2: By this estimate, there are now more TRANSI young adults

2177
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:27,800
Speaker 2: in the US than the number of people living in Boston,

2178
01:55:28,040 --> 01:55:31,400
Speaker 2: which is great because I have long felt that what

2179
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:34,200
Speaker 2: we need to do is arm trans people to take

2180
01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 2: over the city of Boston. I believe this for years,

2181
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:38,800
Speaker 2: and I think we can finally make it happen.

2182
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 3: Okay, but here's the problem, though, you still have to

2183
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,720
Speaker 3: live in Boston afterwards. Well, I guess we could take

2184
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:45,880
Speaker 3: the city of Boston and live somewhere else and then

2185
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:47,880
Speaker 3: sort of like, yeah, you dous from it.

2186
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, presumably, yeah you could. You could basically become like

2187
01:55:51,440 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 2: collectively the landlords of Boston and then use it to

2188
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:56,640
Speaker 2: afford rented in a better place.

2189
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:01,400
Speaker 3: This is viable, I believe, I believe in our lifetime.

2190
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:04,560
Speaker 2: So we can tell, and this will finally increase gen

2191
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:08,280
Speaker 2: z's like home ownership numbers. Right if collectively all of

2192
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:10,720
Speaker 2: the transn non binary people own Boston.

2193
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:13,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a workable plan.

2194
01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:16,160
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to continue that quote. Fewer than

2195
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:18,800
Speaker 2: one percent of boomers identify as non binary, compared to

2196
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:21,560
Speaker 2: more than three percent of gen Z young adults. Combined

2197
01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:23,320
Speaker 2: with the more than two percent to our trans, that

2198
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:25,760
Speaker 2: means one out of eighteen young adults identified as something

2199
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:27,840
Speaker 2: other than male or female in twenty twenty one or

2200
01:56:27,880 --> 01:56:30,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, which is again, it's not true because

2201
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:33,480
Speaker 2: half of the note it's not it's not it's not

2202
01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 2: the time because again two percent are trans, which presumably,

2203
01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:39,720
Speaker 2: based on this survey and how it's asked, presumably means

2204
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:43,040
Speaker 2: identify as either male or female, whereas three percent our

2205
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:46,360
Speaker 2: non binary of some sort may not, may not identify

2206
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:48,680
Speaker 2: as either male or It doesn't say that this is

2207
01:56:48,880 --> 01:56:51,960
Speaker 2: this is this is not well written, but the day

2208
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:54,400
Speaker 2: is interesting. It suggests five to six percent of gen

2209
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:57,440
Speaker 2: Z our trans are non binary, which is a wild

2210
01:56:57,680 --> 01:57:02,280
Speaker 2: departure from previous generations. Right, And also that's a significant

2211
01:57:02,360 --> 01:57:04,800
Speaker 2: chunk of this These gen Z numbers that are not

2212
01:57:04,840 --> 01:57:07,760
Speaker 2: being included in this Washington Post because presumably a decent

2213
01:57:07,840 --> 01:57:09,880
Speaker 2: chunk of these people will want to get married. They

2214
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:12,400
Speaker 2: just don't I identify in a way that the gen

2215
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:15,480
Speaker 2: Z that the Washington Post editorial board respects.

2216
01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:15,720
Speaker 3: Right.

2217
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:18,800
Speaker 2: And again, one of the things that's interesting about this,

2218
01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:22,480
Speaker 2: and contra to all this fearmongering about Andrew Tates destroying

2219
01:57:22,480 --> 01:57:25,560
Speaker 2: all the men, is that male or female gen Z

2220
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:29,960
Speaker 2: and millennial voters overwhelmingly support LGBT rights more than they

2221
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:34,120
Speaker 2: support almost anything else. And this is consistent across the board,

2222
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:37,000
Speaker 2: and markedly higher than it is for other generations.

2223
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:37,200
Speaker 3: Right.

2224
01:57:37,200 --> 01:57:40,920
Speaker 2: Presumably this seems to include even like more independent or

2225
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:43,240
Speaker 2: even more conservative gen Z and millennial voters.

2226
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:43,720
Speaker 3: Right, They're just.

2227
01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:48,720
Speaker 2: Across the board less shitty on this, I'm guessing presumably

2228
01:57:48,760 --> 01:57:52,320
Speaker 2: because a lot of their friends are trands or non

2229
01:57:52,360 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 2: binary or just queer, and that that makes them less

2230
01:57:56,840 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 2: bigoted about this stuff. And again doesn't really fit in

2231
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 2: to this this narrative. Right, And this is again part

2232
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:06,640
Speaker 2: of why I'm not as doomer about you know, there's

2233
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:10,080
Speaker 2: this there's this big fear. Oh, you know, progressives are

2234
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:13,240
Speaker 2: desert young people are deserting progressivism. Which is going to

2235
01:58:13,240 --> 01:58:16,560
Speaker 2: do musclectorally, and I'm just not seeing that in the numbers.

2236
01:58:16,600 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 1: Now.

2237
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 2: Again, everything that's been going on with like the Biden

2238
01:58:19,160 --> 01:58:24,520
Speaker 2: administration's you know, support of Israel certainly may and probably

2239
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:28,520
Speaker 2: will have an impact politically, but it's not necessarily it's

2240
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:31,600
Speaker 2: not very clearly not a result of young people getting

2241
01:58:31,640 --> 01:58:34,720
Speaker 2: pilled by Andrew Tate. Right, that's not why that's happened.

2242
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:36,440
Speaker 3: And there's there's a thing I wanted to talk about

2243
01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:39,839
Speaker 3: with the Andrew Tate stuff too, because like everyone's treating

2244
01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 3: this as like a completely new phenomena and it's like

2245
01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:45,880
Speaker 3: most of the people who are talking about this should

2246
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:48,920
Speaker 3: be old enough to remember gamer Gate, Like this stuff

2247
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 3: has all happened before, and it was like, yeah, like

2248
01:58:51,480 --> 01:58:54,360
Speaker 3: gamer Date did produce a bunch of fascists, and also

2249
01:58:54,440 --> 01:58:57,840
Speaker 3: the millennials were still unbelievably further left than like the

2250
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:00,360
Speaker 3: generations that came before them. Yeah, so like it's like

2251
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:01,800
Speaker 3: this is this is this is just a thing. Like

2252
01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 3: every generation has a a giant thing where there's like

2253
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:11,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of right wing like yeah, a big push.

2254
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:11,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2255
01:59:11,960 --> 01:59:13,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like this just happens periodically. It's just like

2256
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 3: a part of it. It's a part of Baltics. It sucks,

2257
01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:18,280
Speaker 3: it's bad, but it's also like not a thing to

2258
01:59:18,320 --> 01:59:19,600
Speaker 3: be humored about.

2259
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:20,160
Speaker 1: No.

2260
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 2: I do think another thing that is happening here is

2261
01:59:23,680 --> 01:59:26,280
Speaker 2: that the kind of people who become members of the

2262
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:30,800
Speaker 2: Washington Post editorial board have this, have this brainworm, this

2263
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 2: sickness that infects members of the American media worse than

2264
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:38,920
Speaker 2: almost anyone else, which is like they're always looking for Ah,

2265
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 2: contrary to popular wisdom. You think this, but the reality,

2266
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:45,000
Speaker 2: you know, it's the it's Malcolm Gladwell syndrome, right where

2267
01:59:45,240 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 2: you've got to come up with some like clever thing

2268
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:49,760
Speaker 2: that shows that you're smart because you don't buy into

2269
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:51,960
Speaker 2: the standard wisdom, which is always wrong. I mean, there's

2270
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:55,240
Speaker 2: and that and so that they have to believe that

2271
01:59:55,880 --> 02:00:00,800
Speaker 2: whatever is really happening is the opposite of what's obvious happening, right,

2272
02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:04,640
Speaker 2: which is why this Actually young men are getting more conservative,

2273
02:00:04,720 --> 02:00:06,920
Speaker 2: and it's I'm the only one who realizes, and I've

2274
02:00:06,920 --> 02:00:09,120
Speaker 2: got to warn every one of the danger to marriage.

2275
02:00:09,200 --> 02:00:12,839
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, here's another quote from that Washington Post article.

2276
02:00:13,480 --> 02:00:17,200
Speaker 3: In another era, political or ideological differences might have had

2277
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:21,480
Speaker 3: less impact on marriage rates, but increasingly the political is personal.

2278
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:24,560
Speaker 3: A twenty twenty one survey of college students found that

2279
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:27,840
Speaker 3: seventy one percent of Democrats would not date someone with

2280
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:31,240
Speaker 3: opposing views. There is some logic to this marriage across

2281
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:34,280
Speaker 3: religious or political lines. If either partner considers those things

2282
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 3: to be central with their identity, can be associated with

2283
02:00:37,160 --> 02:00:40,920
Speaker 3: lower levels of life satisfaction, and politics is becoming more

2284
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:44,600
Speaker 3: central to people's identity. This mismatch means that someone will

2285
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:48,320
Speaker 3: need to compromise, as the researchers Lymonstone and Brad Wilcox

2286
02:00:48,320 --> 02:00:50,480
Speaker 3: have noted, about one in five young singles will have

2287
02:00:50,520 --> 02:00:53,800
Speaker 3: little choice but to marry someone outside of their ideological tribe.

2288
02:00:53,960 --> 02:00:56,040
Speaker 3: The other option is that they decline to get married

2289
02:00:56,040 --> 02:00:58,920
Speaker 3: at all. Not an ideal outcome considering the data showing

2290
02:00:58,960 --> 02:01:02,200
Speaker 3: that marriage is good for the the societies and individuals alike.

2291
02:01:02,280 --> 02:01:05,080
Speaker 3: And again, this is only the case that one five

2292
02:01:05,160 --> 02:01:07,160
Speaker 3: number is ignoring queer people.

2293
02:01:07,560 --> 02:01:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because they are largely ignoring non white people, right,

2294
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,720
Speaker 2: Like it's it's it's just not accurate, Like, yeah, maybe

2295
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:16,800
Speaker 2: a lot more young white men are going to be single,

2296
02:01:16,840 --> 02:01:18,920
Speaker 2: and there's problems that will occur to you to that, right,

2297
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:21,120
Speaker 2: because for one thing, that's the group that tends to

2298
02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:23,720
Speaker 2: like load up on guns and shoot up public places.

2299
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:26,320
Speaker 2: Not saying it's not a problem, but it doesn't mean

2300
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 2: that our society is doomed because no one's getting married.

2301
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 2: It means that there's some serious problems with young white

2302
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:33,080
Speaker 2: men that we need to deal with.

2303
02:01:33,400 --> 02:01:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's there's There's two other things that I

2304
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:39,040
Speaker 3: think are interesting there. One is, Okay, you can tell

2305
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 3: when these people like formed their political beliefs because they're

2306
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:45,800
Speaker 3: complaining about the personal is political, which is this is

2307
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:49,440
Speaker 3: ninety shit like that is that is like that is

2308
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:52,160
Speaker 3: like like old school ass like this is this is

2309
02:01:52,440 --> 02:01:54,760
Speaker 3: like stuff people were like I don't know, it's it's

2310
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:57,080
Speaker 3: like it's like political correctness where it's like it's the

2311
02:01:57,160 --> 02:01:59,560
Speaker 3: previous version of the same panic that everyone's having. Now

2312
02:02:00,080 --> 02:02:02,560
Speaker 3: this is from the nineties, so it's like all of

2313
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,800
Speaker 3: these people are just like absolute dinosaurs who they've like

2314
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:09,720
Speaker 3: dragged out to write this like weird fearmongering thing. And

2315
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:11,760
Speaker 3: the second thing is I think is interesting too, is

2316
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:17,960
Speaker 3: like just the deep, ingrained, sort of very conservative assumption here,

2317
02:02:18,120 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 3: which is that marriage is good for society, which I

2318
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:26,440
Speaker 3: don't think is anywhere near as straightforward a proposition as

2319
02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:29,120
Speaker 3: to Washington Post is making it seem like and you know,

2320
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:32,360
Speaker 3: and like they have racistical arguments. I mean, the cistics

2321
02:02:32,360 --> 02:02:34,760
Speaker 3: that I've seen, like you know, just just sort of

2322
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:37,440
Speaker 3: likeasistics that I've seen based on American society is that

2323
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:39,920
Speaker 3: like women who aren't married are way happier than they

2324
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:43,320
Speaker 3: are in marriages, and you know, like men do worse.

2325
02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:44,560
Speaker 3: But like you know, but like I mean, this is

2326
02:02:44,560 --> 02:02:47,440
Speaker 3: one of these things there's like we don't know, like

2327
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:50,040
Speaker 3: there has not been a version of America where we

2328
02:02:50,080 --> 02:02:53,920
Speaker 3: haven't where the institution of marriage wasn't like our thing

2329
02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:58,080
Speaker 3: that hasn't existed for like two or three hundred years, Right, Yeah,

2330
02:02:58,360 --> 02:03:01,480
Speaker 3: we don't know the Washington Post know what an American

2331
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:04,440
Speaker 3: society without, like where people don't get married looks like

2332
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:06,240
Speaker 3: like they have no idea, but they're just sort of

2333
02:03:06,280 --> 02:03:09,800
Speaker 3: assuming that it's like the apocalypse because they're weird conservatives

2334
02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:10,400
Speaker 3: in the nineties.

2335
02:03:11,000 --> 02:03:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of I mean, and again, a

2336
02:03:12,720 --> 02:03:17,880
Speaker 2: massive part of what we're seeing here is less it's

2337
02:03:17,960 --> 02:03:21,120
Speaker 2: objectively good, like marriage is the result of all of

2338
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:24,800
Speaker 2: these kind of positive mental health outcomes and more well,

2339
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:29,280
Speaker 2: when people are like, have relationships and loved ones and

2340
02:03:29,360 --> 02:03:33,040
Speaker 2: like a family system supporting them. They're less likely to

2341
02:03:33,080 --> 02:03:35,800
Speaker 2: commit suicide, They're more likely to have someone notice if

2342
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:39,200
Speaker 2: they take ill. They're just like healthier in general. But

2343
02:03:39,240 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 2: that doesn't that doesn't necessarily mean that it's marriage specifically,

2344
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:47,040
Speaker 2: and more like yeah, not being alone, right, Yeah, anyway,

2345
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:49,520
Speaker 2: I want to continue and just kind of go through.

2346
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:52,200
Speaker 2: I think we've trashed this article enough, but I did

2347
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:54,640
Speaker 2: find a lot of interesting stuff about gen Z and

2348
02:03:54,680 --> 02:03:57,320
Speaker 2: young voters that I wanted to get into. But first,

2349
02:03:58,200 --> 02:04:02,560
Speaker 2: here's some more fucking ads, pigs, you have, filthy mongrels.

2350
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:06,120
Speaker 2: Slop it up, suck it down. Anyway, we'll be back

2351
02:04:06,120 --> 02:04:09,800
Speaker 2: in a minute, and we're back. So one interesting thing

2352
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:12,560
Speaker 2: I found. I tried to stick to just stuff from

2353
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:15,360
Speaker 2: like twenty twenty one or later for this, in part

2354
02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:17,120
Speaker 2: because of the Andrew Tait of it. All Right, I

2355
02:04:17,160 --> 02:04:19,600
Speaker 2: wanted to like try to find stuff that was like, Okay,

2356
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:22,480
Speaker 2: since that guy came onto the scene, has there been

2357
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:24,680
Speaker 2: some sudden shift because people treat him like the pied

2358
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:29,320
Speaker 2: piper of fucking fascism, which, again, he's a problem, but

2359
02:04:29,400 --> 02:04:31,280
Speaker 2: I don't think that's broadly accurate. So one of the

2360
02:04:31,280 --> 02:04:33,360
Speaker 2: studies I found was a twenty twenty one survey from

2361
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:37,880
Speaker 2: MTV AP and o RC right, And it was interesting

2362
02:04:38,120 --> 02:04:42,720
Speaker 2: because it showed something I didn't really, something I had

2363
02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:45,320
Speaker 2: kind of bought into, was at least less supported by

2364
02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:47,640
Speaker 2: the evidence than I might have thought, which is like

2365
02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:52,520
Speaker 2: the level of doomerism in young people politics. Gen Z

2366
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:56,600
Speaker 2: actually shows optim like that they are more optimistic than

2367
02:04:56,680 --> 02:04:59,480
Speaker 2: a lot of older people, both in the state of

2368
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:03,120
Speaker 2: the world and their role in improving it. Two thirds

2369
02:05:03,240 --> 02:05:05,720
Speaker 2: of gen Z feels like their generation is motivated to

2370
02:05:05,720 --> 02:05:08,760
Speaker 2: make positive change in the country. Part of I think

2371
02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:11,080
Speaker 2: where we get some of the feelings of doomerism is

2372
02:05:11,080 --> 02:05:13,560
Speaker 2: that only about fourteen percent think that they can have

2373
02:05:13,560 --> 02:05:15,080
Speaker 2: an impact on what the government does.

2374
02:05:16,360 --> 02:05:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that is an entirely reasonable assessment

2375
02:05:22,120 --> 02:05:24,240
Speaker 3: of I mean just like looking at polling data on

2376
02:05:24,280 --> 02:05:27,880
Speaker 3: Palestine or like absolutely, no, not we had a very

2377
02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:30,840
Speaker 3: rational take actually yeah, yeah, it's like we had we

2378
02:05:30,880 --> 02:05:33,760
Speaker 3: had an entire uprising, like people people fought the Secret

2379
02:05:33,800 --> 02:05:36,160
Speaker 3: Service at the gates of the White House, and the

2380
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:38,000
Speaker 3: product of it was the government was like, no, we

2381
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:40,360
Speaker 3: should give more money to cops. Yeah, it's like, yeah,

2382
02:05:40,520 --> 02:05:42,520
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, we're like defunding the New York Public

2383
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:46,879
Speaker 3: Library System to buy encrypted radio like things for police units.

2384
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:49,880
Speaker 3: Like it's like, yeah, like this is objectively true that

2385
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:52,240
Speaker 3: you have very little influence over the government, like.

2386
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 2: A perfectly reasonable thing to say. Yeah, but yeah about

2387
02:05:57,360 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 2: is interesting too. Another thing that I was kind of surprised.

2388
02:06:00,240 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 2: Half of Gen Z people think their standard of living

2389
02:06:02,720 --> 02:06:06,000
Speaker 2: is better than their parents, but about half also think

2390
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:08,720
Speaker 2: that the world their generation is facing is worse than

2391
02:06:08,920 --> 02:06:12,600
Speaker 2: what most other people, most other generations have dealt with.

2392
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 2: So like, they think that their problems are are worse

2393
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:18,880
Speaker 2: than like what boomers and Gen X and millennials we're

2394
02:06:18,880 --> 02:06:21,120
Speaker 2: dealing with, but they think they're about half of them

2395
02:06:21,160 --> 02:06:24,600
Speaker 2: think they're living better lives. This is pretty similar to

2396
02:06:24,640 --> 02:06:28,160
Speaker 2: how millennials feel. Gen X feels very different. Gen X

2397
02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:31,400
Speaker 2: or is the most pessimistic generation about the state of

2398
02:06:31,440 --> 02:06:33,800
Speaker 2: the world, which actually makes kind of sense if you

2399
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:36,120
Speaker 2: realize that, like a lot of Gen Z kids are

2400
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:39,200
Speaker 2: the children of Gen X people, right, So like they

2401
02:06:39,200 --> 02:06:41,000
Speaker 2: think their standard of living is better than their parents

2402
02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:44,680
Speaker 2: because Gen X is miserable, Yeah, which you know interesting.

2403
02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:47,480
Speaker 2: Gen Z and millennials are more accepting than Gen X

2404
02:06:47,480 --> 02:06:50,000
Speaker 2: of depictions of same sex couples in media, and hold

2405
02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:55,560
Speaker 2: more positive views of LGBT people, which again, gen X

2406
02:06:55,680 --> 02:06:59,200
Speaker 2: is the worst generation. We all have to agree on

2407
02:06:59,240 --> 02:06:59,839
Speaker 2: that one.

2408
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:03,880
Speaker 3: It's just terrible. It really really didn't work out in

2409
02:07:03,960 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 3: two thousands.

2410
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:10,520
Speaker 2: Were just a disaster, calamity, calamity. So I wanted to

2411
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:12,800
Speaker 2: kind of break down some stuff from this survey that

2412
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:16,040
Speaker 2: was interesting, just kind of on on how the generations

2413
02:07:16,040 --> 02:07:19,080
Speaker 2: support various policies. So, in terms of their support for

2414
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:23,040
Speaker 2: prohibiting workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity, sixty

2415
02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:25,280
Speaker 2: two percent of Gen Z and sixty two percent of

2416
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:29,000
Speaker 2: millennials support that, only fifty three percent of Gen X does,

2417
02:07:29,080 --> 02:07:31,400
Speaker 2: which is still actually not like a massive gap. Right

2418
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 2: when it comes to this is interesting when it comes

2419
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:37,520
Speaker 2: to requiring Americans to mask in public places like stores

2420
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:41,360
Speaker 2: and restaurants, fifty four percent of millennials support that, fifty

2421
02:07:41,360 --> 02:07:43,800
Speaker 2: three percent of Gen X do but does but fifty

2422
02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:46,880
Speaker 2: two percent of Gen Z does, which is all potentially

2423
02:07:46,920 --> 02:07:48,200
Speaker 2: within kind of a margin of error.

2424
02:07:48,400 --> 02:07:51,320
Speaker 3: That's like noise, Like, yeah, that might just be noise.

2425
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:54,880
Speaker 2: It's about equivalent, right, It's pretty Most of this is

2426
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:56,760
Speaker 2: actually pretty for all of our shitting on gen X.

2427
02:07:56,800 --> 02:08:00,120
Speaker 2: Most of this is actually pretty close. For acquiring vaccinations,

2428
02:08:00,120 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 2: Millennials seem to support it higher than anyone else forty

2429
02:08:02,680 --> 02:08:06,640
Speaker 2: nine percent, gen Z at forty three percent, which is significant.

2430
02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:08,480
Speaker 2: Kind of gen X is right in the middle at

2431
02:08:08,520 --> 02:08:11,920
Speaker 2: forty five When it comes to supporting a nationwide ban

2432
02:08:12,040 --> 02:08:15,880
Speaker 2: on air fifteens and other similar semi automatic rifles, gen

2433
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 2: Z and gen X are at forty two percent for

2434
02:08:18,440 --> 02:08:21,080
Speaker 2: gen X forty four percent for gen Z, whereas millennials

2435
02:08:21,120 --> 02:08:23,919
Speaker 2: are at forty seven percent. Now, a lot of this breakdown,

2436
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:26,120
Speaker 2: because I dug into the actual numbers, is the difference

2437
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:30,240
Speaker 2: between men and women, and conservative men and liberal women

2438
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:33,560
Speaker 2: right who are liberal women are a lot more common

2439
02:08:34,480 --> 02:08:36,839
Speaker 2: and more likely to support these kinds of bands, whereas

2440
02:08:36,840 --> 02:08:39,560
Speaker 2: conservative men aren't, but that drags the overall numbers down.

2441
02:08:39,560 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 2: It's just interesting to me that there seems to be

2442
02:08:41,080 --> 02:08:43,560
Speaker 2: less support with gen Z over that they're closer to

2443
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 2: gen X. Increasing security at the border fifty This is

2444
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:49,200
Speaker 2: where there's a huge gap, fifty five percent of gen

2445
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:52,520
Speaker 2: X for increasing border security. Millennials in gen Z are

2446
02:08:52,520 --> 02:08:56,120
Speaker 2: at thirty eight and thirty seven percent, So that's really

2447
02:08:56,160 --> 02:08:58,920
Speaker 2: like gen X really seems to buy into the we

2448
02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:02,720
Speaker 2: need more border secure, whereas deutes are are like no,

2449
02:09:02,840 --> 02:09:06,800
Speaker 2: fuck that shit, yeah yeah. Gen X or gen Z

2450
02:09:06,920 --> 02:09:09,440
Speaker 2: and millennials both tied at forty eight percent support for

2451
02:09:09,480 --> 02:09:12,240
Speaker 2: a universal basic income. Only thirty six percent of gen

2452
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:17,480
Speaker 2: X supports this, again another significant gap. One interesting thing

2453
02:09:17,560 --> 02:09:20,440
Speaker 2: is that gen X and millennials at thirty eight and

2454
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:24,640
Speaker 2: thirty six percent support reducing regulations on businesses. Only thirty

2455
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:28,600
Speaker 2: one percent of gen Z supports this. That's a significant difference.

2456
02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:30,000
Speaker 2: I find that kind of interesting.

2457
02:09:30,280 --> 02:09:32,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder how much of them also is just

2458
02:09:32,480 --> 02:09:37,600
Speaker 3: like like like you are okay, you are in, You're

2459
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:40,480
Speaker 3: a zumer, You're never are you over owning a business?

2460
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:41,880
Speaker 3: Like first off, thank you?

2461
02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:46,440
Speaker 2: I as I think it may it may be, and

2462
02:09:46,520 --> 02:09:48,520
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know that this has been studied.

2463
02:09:48,560 --> 02:09:52,240
Speaker 2: It may be that because gen Z are so so

2464
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:54,360
Speaker 2: many of them want to be influencers to do some

2465
02:09:54,400 --> 02:09:57,960
Speaker 2: other kind of job and like internet content creation that

2466
02:09:58,080 --> 02:10:00,160
Speaker 2: and a lot of them have done kind of work,

2467
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:04,600
Speaker 2: made some amount of money in that field that tends

2468
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:08,040
Speaker 2: to be independent contractor work. And there's some pretty onerous

2469
02:10:08,120 --> 02:10:10,680
Speaker 2: tax regulations. You know, if you've ever been an independent

2470
02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:13,040
Speaker 2: contract about how you've got to pay taxes. It may

2471
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:15,480
Speaker 2: have something to do with that. I don't know, though,

2472
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:18,080
Speaker 2: Like I this hasn't been broken down like granularly that

2473
02:10:18,120 --> 02:10:20,080
Speaker 2: I've seen, but I did find that kind of interesting.

2474
02:10:21,360 --> 02:10:25,640
Speaker 2: And then here's kind of depressing but interesting reducing funding

2475
02:10:25,640 --> 02:10:30,360
Speaker 2: for law enforcement agencies. Thirty four percent of millennials support that,

2476
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:33,560
Speaker 2: thirty percent of gen Z supports that, which is enough

2477
02:10:33,560 --> 02:10:36,760
Speaker 2: of a gap to suggest like might be somewhat less

2478
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:39,920
Speaker 2: popular among gen Z than millennials. Only eighteen percent of

2479
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:43,400
Speaker 2: gen X feels the same, which is a huge gap,

2480
02:10:43,560 --> 02:10:48,120
Speaker 2: and that is kind of interesting to me. So yeah, yeah,

2481
02:10:48,200 --> 02:10:49,480
Speaker 2: that's all I'm telling.

2482
02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:51,600
Speaker 3: I think there's one I think there's one last kind

2483
02:10:51,600 --> 02:10:56,560
Speaker 3: of interesting thing about this is that those numbers, the

2484
02:10:56,760 --> 02:10:58,520
Speaker 3: numbers on like police funding and a lot of the

2485
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:01,080
Speaker 3: sort of like if you just look at the graphs

2486
02:11:01,160 --> 02:11:03,840
Speaker 3: that were in the Washington Post article, a lot of

2487
02:11:03,880 --> 02:11:08,960
Speaker 3: that is it looks a lot like there's there's there's

2488
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:10,960
Speaker 3: a giant spike dream the uprising, and then it sort

2489
02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:13,480
Speaker 3: of like tails off after it. Yeah, and so and

2490
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:15,040
Speaker 3: so that's the thing that I think is like like that,

2491
02:11:15,120 --> 02:11:16,680
Speaker 3: I don't you know, and this is I think a

2492
02:11:16,760 --> 02:11:18,120
Speaker 3: thing I think is kind of important is like these

2493
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:22,879
Speaker 3: this stuff is all malleable and moment something happens, everyone,

2494
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:27,280
Speaker 3: everyone's beliefs change really quickly. Yeah, and that's the thing

2495
02:11:27,320 --> 02:11:29,120
Speaker 3: and like like that that's a that's the thing with

2496
02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:31,800
Speaker 3: these sort of like you know, with with the sort

2497
02:11:31,800 --> 02:11:33,440
Speaker 3: of doombers and right Andrew Tat is like yeah, like

2498
02:11:33,480 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 3: but people, people's actual political beliefs and what they're willing

2499
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:39,040
Speaker 3: to do for them can change very very very quickly

2500
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:42,800
Speaker 3: in in in moments where they're sort of you know,

2501
02:11:42,840 --> 02:11:44,720
Speaker 3: I mean there's there's a bunch of people getting shot

2502
02:11:44,720 --> 02:11:47,000
Speaker 3: by cops in the street, right right, like that that

2503
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:50,400
Speaker 3: that changes people really really quickly. And I think that's

2504
02:11:50,720 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 3: why the gap is so high both between overall Americans,

2505
02:11:54,360 --> 02:11:57,840
Speaker 3: which are at twenty eight percent for defunding police, and

2506
02:11:58,040 --> 02:12:01,200
Speaker 3: between Gen X and Gen Z millennials. Is that a

2507
02:12:01,240 --> 02:12:04,480
Speaker 3: lot more Gen Z millennials people got like beaten by

2508
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:07,760
Speaker 3: the cops in twenty twenty, and that this does show well,

2509
02:12:07,800 --> 02:12:11,839
Speaker 3: again it's an uphill battle. Most Americans, a super majority

2510
02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:15,760
Speaker 3: of Americans do not support that way. More young Americans do,

2511
02:12:16,160 --> 02:12:18,080
Speaker 3: and it's probably because so many of us got our

2512
02:12:18,120 --> 02:12:21,080
Speaker 3: asses checked. And also I want to like like like

2513
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:22,320
Speaker 3: if if you look at what was happening, like the

2514
02:12:22,360 --> 02:12:24,560
Speaker 3: numbers dream the uprising, right, like the number of people

2515
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:26,800
Speaker 3: who supported the burning of the third Presinkle was like

2516
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:30,240
Speaker 3: fifty percent. Yeah, so like these are things that change

2517
02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:32,920
Speaker 3: really quickly in the moment too, and now we're in

2518
02:12:32,920 --> 02:12:35,160
Speaker 3: the sort of long backlash and that's you know, and

2519
02:12:35,160 --> 02:12:37,560
Speaker 3: that's that's driving like some of these numbers. But yeah, yeah,

2520
02:12:37,680 --> 02:12:40,920
Speaker 3: like don't it, don't don't be cynical things. Things can

2521
02:12:40,960 --> 02:12:41,720
Speaker 3: and will get better.

2522
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes they will, and they there's a pretty dramatic difference.

2523
02:12:45,680 --> 02:12:48,360
Speaker 2: Maybe it'll take a couple more of the general uprisings

2524
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:50,920
Speaker 2: where people get there as kicked, which is not great

2525
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:55,400
Speaker 2: to think about, but like, these are pretty stark differences

2526
02:12:55,480 --> 02:12:57,880
Speaker 2: in the generations, and I think that that's kind of

2527
02:12:57,960 --> 02:13:00,200
Speaker 2: worth noting. And I don't know, celebrating me be the

2528
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:03,440
Speaker 2: wrong term, but I don't think it's pessimistic now in

2529
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:05,480
Speaker 2: terms of stuff that is pessimistic. I want to end

2530
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:07,680
Speaker 2: on a note of like where I kind of think

2531
02:13:07,800 --> 02:13:11,760
Speaker 2: some of the lazy, dumbass pundit brain on this is

2532
02:13:11,800 --> 02:13:14,440
Speaker 2: coming from. And I maybe I'm wrong about this. But

2533
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:18,720
Speaker 2: I have a little conspiracy theory that involves AI because

2534
02:13:19,240 --> 02:13:21,040
Speaker 2: I did kind of at the end of digging up

2535
02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:22,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of these studies, reading through I don't know,

2536
02:13:22,600 --> 02:13:26,240
Speaker 2: like fifteen articles or whatnot, and you know, the actual

2537
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:30,440
Speaker 2: like entirety of three or four different big surveys, I

2538
02:13:30,840 --> 02:13:33,480
Speaker 2: decided just to hop onto one of the AI search

2539
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:36,919
Speaker 2: engines that I use occasionally that is usually not helpful,

2540
02:13:37,280 --> 02:13:38,840
Speaker 2: just to see what it said. And I asked, like,

2541
02:13:39,200 --> 02:13:42,280
Speaker 2: what is the most recent data on how young gin

2542
02:13:42,400 --> 02:13:44,600
Speaker 2: z men are voting?

2543
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:45,000
Speaker 1: Right?

2544
02:13:45,280 --> 02:13:49,120
Speaker 2: And it gave me mostly useless shit, Like the resources

2545
02:13:49,120 --> 02:13:51,880
Speaker 2: were bad. But one of the things that said, because

2546
02:13:51,880 --> 02:13:55,280
Speaker 2: it breaks down the different sources and like summarizes them

2547
02:13:55,280 --> 02:13:57,680
Speaker 2: for you. So it says here the Atlantic is kind

2548
02:13:57,680 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 2: of one of the sources. It recommends the Atlantic Reporter

2549
02:14:00,040 --> 02:14:02,480
Speaker 2: that gen Z and millennials are more likely to vote Republican.

2550
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 2: This could indicate a shift in political leadings among these demographics. Now,

2551
02:14:06,080 --> 02:14:08,880
Speaker 2: the article that it is linking there is an article

2552
02:14:08,920 --> 02:14:11,400
Speaker 2: called is gen Z coming for the GOP? Not all

2553
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:14,120
Speaker 2: young people are Democrats? By Ronald Brownstein, And it does

2554
02:14:14,200 --> 02:14:16,480
Speaker 2: not say that, It does not say anything like that.

2555
02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:19,640
Speaker 2: It certainly does not say, and I will tell you

2556
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:24,200
Speaker 2: what it fucking says, right, because it's wildly fucking different.

2557
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:27,920
Speaker 2: An analysis of previously unpublished election data from Catalyst, a

2558
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:31,760
Speaker 2: democratic targeting firm, by Michael pod Orzer, a former political

2559
02:14:31,760 --> 02:14:34,400
Speaker 2: director for the AFLCIO, shows that even the emergence of

2560
02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:37,000
Speaker 2: these new voters may not break the larger political stalemate

2561
02:14:37,040 --> 02:14:39,360
Speaker 2: that has partitioned the country in a seemingly immovable blocks

2562
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:42,680
Speaker 2: of bread and blue states. Podewzer's analysis of the Catalyst data,

2563
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:44,920
Speaker 2: shared exclusively with The Atlantic, found that over the past

2564
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:47,720
Speaker 2: four elections, gen Z voters have broken heavily for Democrats

2565
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:50,240
Speaker 2: and blue states and provide to the party's solid margins

2566
02:14:50,240 --> 02:14:52,800
Speaker 2: and closely contested swing states. But in red states, with

2567
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:55,720
Speaker 2: a few prominent exceptions, Podhorzer surprisingly found that even gen

2568
02:14:55,800 --> 02:14:58,640
Speaker 2: Z voters are mostly supporting Republicans. Now, when you dig

2569
02:14:58,640 --> 02:15:00,600
Speaker 2: into the data, first off, that does not show that

2570
02:15:00,760 --> 02:15:03,560
Speaker 2: gen Z people are voting more for Republicans. It's the

2571
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:06,160
Speaker 2: opposite of that. The vast majority of them are voting

2572
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:10,000
Speaker 2: for Democrats, but in red states the number and it's

2573
02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:11,840
Speaker 2: not finding in red states that gen Z are more

2574
02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:15,160
Speaker 2: likely to support Republicans than previous generations, they are more

2575
02:15:15,200 --> 02:15:19,840
Speaker 2: progressive than previous generations. They're just still majority supporting Republicans

2576
02:15:19,880 --> 02:15:23,440
Speaker 2: in deep red states. Now again, if you read that quote,

2577
02:15:23,480 --> 02:15:25,960
Speaker 2: it's also saying there are some red states where gen

2578
02:15:26,080 --> 02:15:29,440
Speaker 2: z are voting overwhelmingly for Democrats, and in purple states

2579
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:33,640
Speaker 2: they are wildly progressive compared to previous generations. It is,

2580
02:15:33,680 --> 02:15:37,000
Speaker 2: again the opposite of what that AI summary is wondering

2581
02:15:37,080 --> 02:15:40,040
Speaker 2: how many lazy pundits are doing this because they suck

2582
02:15:40,040 --> 02:15:42,000
Speaker 2: at shit and we're just like, oh, well, the Atlantic

2583
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:45,200
Speaker 2: says they're more Republicans. Like, no, if you read the article,

2584
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:47,200
Speaker 2: it does not say that. It's a pretty good article.

2585
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, asolutely well, and this is actually there's one thing

2586
02:15:50,360 --> 02:15:51,920
Speaker 3: I want to mention about that polling data two, which

2587
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:53,920
Speaker 3: is that the twenty twenty two election was really weird

2588
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:57,400
Speaker 3: because the twenty twenty two election was supposed to be

2589
02:15:57,680 --> 02:15:59,920
Speaker 3: it was supposed to be a red wave election, and yeah,

2590
02:16:00,080 --> 02:16:02,839
Speaker 3: there actually was one, but it was it only happened.

2591
02:16:03,120 --> 02:16:06,400
Speaker 3: It happened in deep red states. Yes, and it happened

2592
02:16:06,440 --> 02:16:08,040
Speaker 3: in New York. And that that has to do with

2593
02:16:08,040 --> 02:16:10,360
Speaker 3: the New York media market, which is part of also

2594
02:16:10,360 --> 02:16:13,120
Speaker 3: why all these people's brains have been completely destroyed. But

2595
02:16:13,520 --> 02:16:17,040
Speaker 3: I don't actually like, it's actually genuinely unclear to me

2596
02:16:17,080 --> 02:16:20,800
Speaker 3: that this is even predictive of how those same people

2597
02:16:20,800 --> 02:16:22,360
Speaker 3: and deep red states are going to vote in like

2598
02:16:22,400 --> 02:16:25,920
Speaker 3: the next like four to eight years, because that was

2599
02:16:26,040 --> 02:16:27,880
Speaker 3: because again this this this, this was a mid term

2600
02:16:27,960 --> 02:16:30,879
Speaker 3: election with a democratic president. That is, when you're supposed

2601
02:16:30,920 --> 02:16:34,320
Speaker 3: to have the opposition like win a bunch of seats

2602
02:16:34,320 --> 02:16:37,120
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and like it didn't go the

2603
02:16:37,160 --> 02:16:39,280
Speaker 3: way it was supposed to and so and so I

2604
02:16:39,320 --> 02:16:42,360
Speaker 3: think it's actually even that part is more is more

2605
02:16:42,560 --> 02:16:45,320
Speaker 3: like even the tiny note of it where they're like

2606
02:16:45,840 --> 02:16:49,600
Speaker 3: more like gen Z people voted Republicans, Like I, I

2607
02:16:49,640 --> 02:16:51,840
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't even know if that's gonna hold

2608
02:16:52,680 --> 02:16:55,360
Speaker 3: in the long run. But all of these pun like, yeah,

2609
02:16:55,360 --> 02:16:57,359
Speaker 3: the fact that they probably are just reading AI.

2610
02:16:58,040 --> 02:17:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder like coming across that dog shit something

2611
02:17:02,840 --> 02:17:06,560
Speaker 2: like just completely wrong. It's very funny. Made me feel

2612
02:17:06,560 --> 02:17:08,840
Speaker 2: a little bit better about the computers coming for us.

2613
02:17:08,879 --> 02:17:11,560
Speaker 2: All made me feel a little bit worse about the

2614
02:17:11,600 --> 02:17:15,480
Speaker 2: intelligence of pundits. But yeah, it's you know, and one

2615
02:17:15,480 --> 02:17:17,600
Speaker 2: of the things that is kind of if you're concerned

2616
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:20,760
Speaker 2: about twenty twenty four. That is a worthwhile concern, and

2617
02:17:20,760 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 2: that is a real problem is that while young people

2618
02:17:25,160 --> 02:17:29,280
Speaker 2: are overwhelmingly progressive as voters, this is not evenly distributed

2619
02:17:29,280 --> 02:17:32,480
Speaker 2: across the country, and a lot of the gains in

2620
02:17:32,600 --> 02:17:35,320
Speaker 2: voters that progressives have seen are going to be clustered

2621
02:17:35,320 --> 02:17:37,720
Speaker 2: in states that were already overwhelmingly blue, and when it

2622
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:43,280
Speaker 2: comes to an elect a presidential election, those are wasted votes, right,

2623
02:17:43,720 --> 02:17:45,120
Speaker 2: And a lot like that this and this is a

2624
02:17:45,120 --> 02:17:48,080
Speaker 2: problem that the Republicans dealt with a lot during the

2625
02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:51,480
Speaker 2: Obama years, right where there would be massively more Republican voters,

2626
02:17:51,480 --> 02:17:53,160
Speaker 2: but they would be clustered in these areas that dims

2627
02:17:53,160 --> 02:17:55,160
Speaker 2: were never going to win, and so it didn't help

2628
02:17:55,200 --> 02:17:56,199
Speaker 2: them electorally.

2629
02:17:56,360 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 1: Right.

2630
02:17:57,720 --> 02:18:00,400
Speaker 2: That is kind of worth noting. It's potentially a thing.

2631
02:18:00,520 --> 02:18:03,279
Speaker 2: Although a lot of the gains when people are freaking

2632
02:18:03,320 --> 02:18:06,160
Speaker 2: out about like, oh, you know, Biden's numbers among non

2633
02:18:06,160 --> 02:18:10,080
Speaker 2: white voters have gotten worse, that is probably true, almost

2634
02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:12,720
Speaker 2: certainly true to some extent, But a lot of those

2635
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:15,920
Speaker 2: vote gains are clustered areas that were so heavily read

2636
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:18,280
Speaker 2: it may not have any impact on the hills for

2637
02:18:18,360 --> 02:18:19,160
Speaker 2: all electorals.

2638
02:18:19,320 --> 02:18:21,160
Speaker 3: I will say the one, the one place for that

2639
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:24,359
Speaker 3: matter actually does matter is Michigan, Yes, because and Michigan

2640
02:18:24,400 --> 02:18:27,520
Speaker 3: had a huge Muslim population who are unbelievably pissed at

2641
02:18:27,520 --> 02:18:30,680
Speaker 3: Biden for you know, offering them the deal We're going

2642
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:32,560
Speaker 3: to murder your family, and also you have to vote

2643
02:18:32,600 --> 02:18:33,560
Speaker 3: for us, which.

2644
02:18:33,400 --> 02:18:35,920
Speaker 2: Is like I'm not doing the Will Stancil thing and

2645
02:18:35,920 --> 02:18:37,080
Speaker 2: saying there's nothing to worry about.

2646
02:18:37,080 --> 02:18:39,760
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying there are places where it does matter yere,

2647
02:18:39,840 --> 02:18:43,480
Speaker 3: but like, yeah, yeah, it's unclear, and a lot of

2648
02:18:43,480 --> 02:18:45,240
Speaker 3: what may be happen. Well, a lot of what is

2649
02:18:45,280 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 3: certainly happening, although this doesn't mean that there won't be

2650
02:18:47,680 --> 02:18:49,120
Speaker 3: because I think there's a good chance there will be

2651
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:51,959
Speaker 3: an electoral impact. But a lot of what is objectively happening,

2652
02:18:52,760 --> 02:18:55,640
Speaker 3: both on the left and the right, is increasing numbers

2653
02:18:55,720 --> 02:18:58,760
Speaker 3: of voters who are in states that would never never

2654
02:18:58,840 --> 02:19:01,400
Speaker 3: going to be in play electorate world. Yeah, right, the

2655
02:19:01,400 --> 02:19:03,840
Speaker 3: electoral college is bullshit, you know. Yeah, It's like like

2656
02:19:03,879 --> 02:19:05,879
Speaker 3: I've I've lived in Illinois my entire life. It is

2657
02:19:05,879 --> 02:19:08,720
Speaker 3: not possible for me to cast a vote that matters. Yeah,

2658
02:19:08,760 --> 02:19:12,160
Speaker 3: Like it just isn't. Yes, just how the system works, right,

2659
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:15,160
Speaker 3: It's like it's a great, great, great job, good job. Yeah,

2660
02:19:15,240 --> 02:19:16,480
Speaker 3: he wrote the constitution.

2661
02:19:17,240 --> 02:19:20,760
Speaker 2: So anyway, I think that's that's about enough to get into.

2662
02:19:22,360 --> 02:19:24,800
Speaker 2: I hope this has been edifying and useful to people.

2663
02:19:25,080 --> 02:19:27,400
Speaker 2: Uh Mia, you got anything else to say before we

2664
02:19:27,520 --> 02:19:28,000
Speaker 2: roll out here?

2665
02:19:28,879 --> 02:19:35,039
Speaker 3: Uh Molotov twenty twenty four, just like Malotav twenty twenty Yeah,

2666
02:19:35,280 --> 02:19:39,360
Speaker 3: don't the Washington Post. Okay, I want to close in

2667
02:19:39,440 --> 02:19:41,800
Speaker 3: the note that the Washington Post editorial board managed to

2668
02:19:41,800 --> 02:19:44,400
Speaker 3: find the one socialist in the entire US who's anti

2669
02:19:44,480 --> 02:19:48,160
Speaker 3: abortion maker, a steam maker or writer for them.

2670
02:19:48,120 --> 02:19:52,400
Speaker 2: So less Yeah, it's but what are you speaking for?

2671
02:19:52,560 --> 02:19:56,360
Speaker 2: Why is it important that we have this voice of

2672
02:19:56,440 --> 02:19:58,760
Speaker 2: a person like fucking hell?

2673
02:19:59,640 --> 02:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Got it?

2674
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:04,120
Speaker 2: It's tiring, speaking of tiring, I'm tired.

2675
02:20:04,200 --> 02:20:05,000
Speaker 3: So now we're done.

2676
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:21,920
Speaker 11: Goodbye. Ah.

2677
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:25,240
Speaker 2: I have slain the God of Abraham and cast his

2678
02:20:25,440 --> 02:20:28,600
Speaker 2: ruin upon the mountain side, and now I am the

2679
02:20:28,680 --> 02:20:32,080
Speaker 2: Lord and Savior of all. Podcasting Robert Evans, This is

2680
02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:35,279
Speaker 2: it could happen here a podcast about things falling apart

2681
02:20:36,240 --> 02:20:42,640
Speaker 2: and about my slow descent into theistic narcissism. Here with

2682
02:20:42,680 --> 02:20:45,000
Speaker 2: me today, Garrison Davis and me along, How are you

2683
02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:47,080
Speaker 2: guys doing great.

2684
02:20:47,240 --> 02:20:50,480
Speaker 3: He wasn't like this like fifteen minutes ago, that there's

2685
02:20:50,480 --> 02:20:52,320
Speaker 3: been a rapid radicalization process.

2686
02:20:52,640 --> 02:20:57,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, speaking speaking of rapid radicalization.

2687
02:20:57,160 --> 02:21:00,440
Speaker 2: I downed a bottle of this alive ancient mushroom lick elixer,

2688
02:21:00,480 --> 02:21:03,480
Speaker 2: and it has overpowered me.

2689
02:21:08,320 --> 02:21:11,000
Speaker 12: Not a sponsor too, free free, free advertising.

2690
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:14,640
Speaker 2: But if they want to pay us, I will probably

2691
02:21:14,680 --> 02:21:18,959
Speaker 2: stop claiming to have slain the God of Abraham. This

2692
02:21:19,200 --> 02:21:23,840
Speaker 2: is this Week in Terrorism. Uh, a show title we've

2693
02:21:23,840 --> 02:21:26,240
Speaker 2: never used before and may never use again, but we

2694
02:21:26,280 --> 02:21:26,680
Speaker 2: wanted to.

2695
02:21:27,360 --> 02:21:28,720
Speaker 3: We're probably gonna have to use it again.

2696
02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:31,760
Speaker 2: None of the terrorism we're talking about has occurred this week.

2697
02:21:31,800 --> 02:21:34,360
Speaker 3: It all occurred in previous weeks. We were out last week.

2698
02:21:34,480 --> 02:21:36,960
Speaker 2: We wanted to talk about some of our recent terrorism

2699
02:21:37,480 --> 02:21:41,360
Speaker 2: attacks to discuss kind of what we're seeing in radicalization

2700
02:21:41,480 --> 02:21:45,040
Speaker 2: of the people who were carrying out usually shootings, but

2701
02:21:45,080 --> 02:21:49,200
Speaker 2: not exclusively. We're actually going to start with a hammer attack. Yeah,

2702
02:21:49,360 --> 02:21:51,000
Speaker 2: what we're seeing out there because.

2703
02:21:51,000 --> 02:21:55,920
Speaker 12: Very British style. Actually, I think we're ending on a

2704
02:21:56,000 --> 02:21:56,720
Speaker 12: stabbing too.

2705
02:21:56,959 --> 02:21:59,040
Speaker 2: S ending on a stabbing. Most of these are not shootings.

2706
02:21:59,040 --> 02:21:59,600
Speaker 3: I'm a liar.

2707
02:22:00,400 --> 02:22:01,640
Speaker 2: It's the mushroom juice.

2708
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:02,600
Speaker 11: But Yeah, we're.

2709
02:22:02,520 --> 02:22:06,200
Speaker 2: Gonna start by talking about the attack on Paul Pelosi, who's,

2710
02:22:06,240 --> 02:22:08,840
Speaker 2: of course Nancy Pelosi's fuck buddy.

2711
02:22:08,920 --> 02:22:10,400
Speaker 3: Some people call him a husband.

2712
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:14,879
Speaker 2: I think that's an archaic term, but yeah, he got

2713
02:22:14,959 --> 02:22:19,640
Speaker 2: assaulted in his house by this guy, Brian Depayap. This

2714
02:22:19,800 --> 02:22:22,760
Speaker 2: was like a year or so ago, and he just

2715
02:22:22,800 --> 02:22:26,200
Speaker 2: recently got convicted of a bunch of stuff. He's going

2716
02:22:26,240 --> 02:22:29,000
Speaker 2: to be going to forever prison. But we're going to

2717
02:22:29,040 --> 02:22:33,240
Speaker 2: talk about that attack essentially. I wanted to start with

2718
02:22:33,320 --> 02:22:35,720
Speaker 2: kind of a little bit of audio of the attack itself.

2719
02:22:35,760 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 2: This is from police body camera, and basically what happened

2720
02:22:38,560 --> 02:22:42,680
Speaker 2: is this guy Brian broke into the Pelosi's backyard, which

2721
02:22:42,760 --> 02:22:45,560
Speaker 2: was not guarded. Nancy was away from the house. She

2722
02:22:45,680 --> 02:22:49,280
Speaker 2: had their security detail. Capitol Police does not protect spouses

2723
02:22:49,320 --> 02:22:53,960
Speaker 2: and family members of Congress people. And he used a

2724
02:22:54,040 --> 02:22:56,800
Speaker 2: hammer in one of the two very large backs he

2725
02:22:56,840 --> 02:22:59,840
Speaker 2: brought with him to bust into the house and then

2726
02:23:00,440 --> 02:23:03,480
Speaker 2: had a conversation with Paul Pelosi that he insists was

2727
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:06,160
Speaker 2: very polite until the police showed up, at which point

2728
02:23:06,240 --> 02:23:08,320
Speaker 2: he started bashing him in the skull with a hammer.

2729
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:10,920
Speaker 2: And we're going to get into more of what happened,

2730
02:23:10,920 --> 02:23:13,680
Speaker 2: but I wanted to I want to start by playing

2731
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:17,360
Speaker 2: that audio. This is right at the point that the

2732
02:23:17,400 --> 02:23:18,480
Speaker 2: police opened the door.

2733
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:20,800
Speaker 3: How you doing?

2734
02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:22,680
Speaker 4: What's going on?

2735
02:23:22,720 --> 02:23:22,920
Speaker 8: Man?

2736
02:23:24,879 --> 02:23:31,120
Speaker 3: That's the guy? What drop the hammer? What is har one?

2737
02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:36,920
Speaker 2: And so what is actually happening in the video is

2738
02:23:37,600 --> 02:23:42,360
Speaker 2: this guy Brian, who is like he's got a big,

2739
02:23:42,520 --> 02:23:45,520
Speaker 2: very large hammer in his hands and like there's a

2740
02:23:45,680 --> 02:23:48,760
Speaker 2: very mild struggle going on for it. Pelosi has one

2741
02:23:48,840 --> 02:23:51,600
Speaker 2: hand on the hammer, which is a reasonable thing to

2742
02:23:51,640 --> 02:23:53,920
Speaker 2: want to do in this situation, and the guy just

2743
02:23:53,959 --> 02:23:56,920
Speaker 2: looks kind of stunned. And the police show up and

2744
02:23:56,959 --> 02:23:59,360
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, man, drop the hammer, and he says no,

2745
02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:02,800
Speaker 2: and they, to be fair to the police, pretty reasonably

2746
02:24:02,920 --> 02:24:05,160
Speaker 2: take a step towards him, and he pulls the hammer

2747
02:24:05,160 --> 02:24:07,160
Speaker 2: away from Paul and hits him in the head several times.

2748
02:24:07,200 --> 02:24:10,360
Speaker 2: The police tackle him off. Paul got hit, hurt very badly.

2749
02:24:10,400 --> 02:24:12,880
Speaker 2: This is a pretty ugly attack. He's an old man.

2750
02:24:12,920 --> 02:24:14,400
Speaker 2: He got hit in the head with a hammer several

2751
02:24:14,440 --> 02:24:18,320
Speaker 2: times by a much younger man. Pretty ugly. One of

2752
02:24:18,320 --> 02:24:20,560
Speaker 2: the things that becomes clear if you watch the earlier

2753
02:24:20,600 --> 02:24:22,640
Speaker 2: footage of this guy in their backyard, because they have

2754
02:24:22,640 --> 02:24:25,080
Speaker 2: a security camera, and if you watch this footage, is that, like,

2755
02:24:25,720 --> 02:24:28,360
Speaker 2: this is not a guy who had a super clear

2756
02:24:28,480 --> 02:24:30,800
Speaker 2: plan about what he was going to do. This is

2757
02:24:30,840 --> 02:24:32,720
Speaker 2: a guy who was kind of flying by the seat

2758
02:24:32,720 --> 02:24:36,600
Speaker 2: of his pants, and when the police came in kind

2759
02:24:36,600 --> 02:24:40,039
Speaker 2: of irrationally like based on his existing plans, decided to

2760
02:24:40,080 --> 02:24:42,520
Speaker 2: swing at him. And when he was at court, like

2761
02:24:42,680 --> 02:24:46,320
Speaker 2: some of the things to Pape said were very interesting,

2762
02:24:48,760 --> 02:24:51,800
Speaker 2: he basically like, you know, he busts into their backyard.

2763
02:24:52,440 --> 02:24:55,680
Speaker 2: Paul Pelosi in his pajamas, confronts him when he hears it,

2764
02:24:56,160 --> 02:25:00,080
Speaker 2: and Depap asks, are you Paul Pelosi? Where's Nancy? Where

2765
02:25:00,120 --> 02:25:03,440
Speaker 2: is Nancy? And Pelosi's like, she's not home, She's going

2766
02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:06,000
Speaker 2: to be gone for several days. And de Pap started

2767
02:25:06,040 --> 02:25:09,039
Speaker 2: threatening to tie Pelosi up. He does this like ten times.

2768
02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:11,840
Speaker 2: Eventually Paul's able to get away briefly to go to

2769
02:25:11,879 --> 02:25:14,560
Speaker 2: the bathroom where he has a cell phone, and he

2770
02:25:14,640 --> 02:25:18,000
Speaker 2: calls the police and like while he's on the phone

2771
02:25:18,080 --> 02:25:20,119
Speaker 2: with a dispatcher, you can hear de Pap like telling

2772
02:25:20,160 --> 02:25:20,800
Speaker 2: him to hang up.

2773
02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:22,120
Speaker 1: You know.

2774
02:25:22,240 --> 02:25:25,840
Speaker 2: The police get there and he attacks him. The first

2775
02:25:25,840 --> 02:25:27,560
Speaker 2: thing that happens in the wake of this this is

2776
02:25:27,560 --> 02:25:31,120
Speaker 2: obviously big news, and the entirety of right wing media

2777
02:25:31,160 --> 02:25:34,520
Speaker 2: basically decided that this was Paul Pelosi's lover, and.

2778
02:25:34,560 --> 02:25:38,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, I was under the impression from reparable sources that

2779
02:25:38,560 --> 02:25:41,560
Speaker 12: this was this was Paul's gay lover.

2780
02:25:41,720 --> 02:25:42,920
Speaker 3: Is ye I was told that.

2781
02:25:43,120 --> 02:25:47,560
Speaker 2: Immediately comes out. Marjorie Taylor Green spreads this, Tucker Carlson

2782
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:52,039
Speaker 2: spreads this. Elon Musk spreads this. Representative Carla Tinni spreads

2783
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:54,920
Speaker 2: this again because this is very clearly a right wing

2784
02:25:54,959 --> 02:26:01,160
Speaker 2: attack motivated by right wing media on unelectedly pretty brutal attack,

2785
02:26:01,240 --> 02:26:03,280
Speaker 2: not on an elected leader. Sorry, I'm the husband of

2786
02:26:03,320 --> 02:26:06,760
Speaker 2: an elected leader, right And I wanted to quote really

2787
02:26:06,840 --> 02:26:09,480
Speaker 2: quickly from an MSN write up on this that talks

2788
02:26:09,520 --> 02:26:13,640
Speaker 2: about like why Depap says he did this. Depap explained

2789
02:26:13,640 --> 02:26:15,480
Speaker 2: that he broke into the Pelosi home in order to

2790
02:26:15,560 --> 02:26:19,240
Speaker 2: lure University of Michigan Anthropology and Women's Study professor Gail

2791
02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:22,760
Speaker 2: Rubin to their house. Ruben's research, according to her professional bio,

2792
02:26:22,840 --> 02:26:27,840
Speaker 2: focuses on LGBTQ studies, gay and lesbian ethnography, sexual populations

2793
02:26:27,840 --> 02:26:30,959
Speaker 2: and geographies, sexology, and feminist theory. She is known for

2794
02:26:30,959 --> 02:26:33,840
Speaker 2: her nineteen eighty four essay Thinking Sex, which is considered

2795
02:26:33,840 --> 02:26:34,920
Speaker 2: a founding text.

2796
02:26:34,640 --> 02:26:35,400
Speaker 1: Of queer theory.

2797
02:26:35,760 --> 02:26:37,959
Speaker 2: Paul was never a target, De Pap said in court,

2798
02:26:38,040 --> 02:26:40,200
Speaker 2: explaining that he was only using the pelosis to get

2799
02:26:40,240 --> 02:26:42,720
Speaker 2: to my other targets and that he felt really bad

2800
02:26:42,800 --> 02:26:45,760
Speaker 2: for Paul Pelosi. He explained that he spent six hours

2801
02:26:45,800 --> 02:26:49,560
Speaker 2: a day watching political commentary on YouTube before he was arrested,

2802
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:51,920
Speaker 2: where he learned that everything was a lie coming from

2803
02:26:51,959 --> 02:26:55,000
Speaker 2: the press. He listened off common right wing grievances, according

2804
02:26:55,000 --> 02:26:57,000
Speaker 2: to NBC News, to explain why he broke.

2805
02:26:56,840 --> 02:26:57,440
Speaker 1: Into the home.

2806
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:00,480
Speaker 2: He claims to have heard about Gail Ruben from anti

2807
02:27:00,640 --> 02:27:03,840
Speaker 2: LGBTQ activist James Lindsay, who is the same person who

2808
02:27:03,840 --> 02:27:07,560
Speaker 2: claims to have popularize the groomers slur against LGBTQ people.

2809
02:27:07,800 --> 02:27:10,560
Speaker 2: The PAP said that he regularly listened to Lindsay's podcast.

2810
02:27:10,879 --> 02:27:12,680
Speaker 2: The takeaway I got is that she wants to turn

2811
02:27:12,720 --> 02:27:16,520
Speaker 2: our schools into pedophile molestation factories. To Pap said, so,

2812
02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:19,039
Speaker 2: one of the things that's really interesting to me is

2813
02:27:19,040 --> 02:27:21,200
Speaker 2: that this guy's in the home of one of the

2814
02:27:21,240 --> 02:27:25,360
Speaker 2: most powerful people in the entire country, who is worth

2815
02:27:25,440 --> 02:27:29,240
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars or more so also extremely wealthy person.

2816
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:33,279
Speaker 2: But she's not his target. His target is this woman's

2817
02:27:33,320 --> 02:27:38,840
Speaker 2: studies professor who James Lindsay has convinced him is trying

2818
02:27:38,879 --> 02:27:40,440
Speaker 2: to molest all of the kids in America.

2819
02:27:40,560 --> 02:27:40,720
Speaker 1: Right.

2820
02:27:40,959 --> 02:27:44,240
Speaker 2: This is again, this is entirely stochastic terrorism. This is

2821
02:27:44,280 --> 02:27:47,080
Speaker 2: the fault. James Lindsay wanted stuff like this to happen.

2822
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:50,400
Speaker 2: That's why he does what he does. This is on him,

2823
02:27:50,720 --> 02:27:52,600
Speaker 2: and it's a very clear example. This is if you

2824
02:27:52,640 --> 02:27:55,760
Speaker 2: go into the stude's backstory, he was not always like this.

2825
02:27:55,800 --> 02:27:58,160
Speaker 2: He used to be, I think a pro nudity activist,

2826
02:27:58,200 --> 02:28:02,560
Speaker 2: but like was not a guy who was like wildly conservative.

2827
02:28:03,000 --> 02:28:05,920
Speaker 2: And then the pandemic hits and he's spending all day

2828
02:28:06,080 --> 02:28:10,640
Speaker 2: playing video games alone, increasingly isolated, and he starts going

2829
02:28:10,680 --> 02:28:13,879
Speaker 2: down these YouTube and podcast primarily listening to these right

2830
02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:16,480
Speaker 2: wing podcasters. Lindsay's one of them. He's also a huge

2831
02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:20,120
Speaker 2: Timpool listener. Who is this super right wing guy who

2832
02:28:20,120 --> 02:28:23,360
Speaker 2: believes that, like, we're already in a shooting civil war

2833
02:28:23,600 --> 02:28:27,080
Speaker 2: with the left, And yeah, these are all big groomer guys,

2834
02:28:27,160 --> 02:28:30,400
Speaker 2: these are all women's studies professors are the most dangerous

2835
02:28:30,440 --> 02:28:33,640
Speaker 2: people in the country, and this is a vulnerable dude

2836
02:28:33,720 --> 02:28:37,320
Speaker 2: who the pandemic isolated from what social networks he had had,

2837
02:28:37,680 --> 02:28:40,920
Speaker 2: and he just kind of completely loses his shit. It's

2838
02:28:40,959 --> 02:28:44,520
Speaker 2: a very clear radicalization path. And it's a big bummer

2839
02:28:44,600 --> 02:28:48,320
Speaker 2: because this is a deeply mentally unwell man who was

2840
02:28:48,360 --> 02:28:52,320
Speaker 2: taken advantage of by a right wing media ecosystem that

2841
02:28:52,440 --> 02:28:55,480
Speaker 2: exists to churn exactly this kind of guy towards violence

2842
02:28:55,520 --> 02:28:57,400
Speaker 2: against their ideological opponents.

2843
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:01,520
Speaker 12: Now, it is certainly interesting, is this attack was more

2844
02:29:01,560 --> 02:29:04,440
Speaker 12: deeply weird than what we all initially thought, like, oh,

2845
02:29:04,520 --> 02:29:06,520
Speaker 12: like someone was trying to kill Pelosi, right, is, Like.

2846
02:29:06,520 --> 02:29:08,360
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised someone would try to do that. I'm

2847
02:29:08,400 --> 02:29:10,640
Speaker 2: not saying it's just I'm not like saying that because fucker,

2848
02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:13,440
Speaker 2: I'm saying that. Like, I'm not surprised. She's incredibly powerful.

2849
02:29:13,480 --> 02:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Of course people want to kill her. Yeah, she's like

2850
02:29:14,959 --> 02:29:15,440
Speaker 2: the way it is.

2851
02:29:15,520 --> 02:29:18,160
Speaker 12: Yeah, we all saw what happened on January sixth. The

2852
02:29:18,200 --> 02:29:19,800
Speaker 12: come on, guys, Yeah, but.

2853
02:29:19,800 --> 02:29:21,320
Speaker 3: Like this is normal politics.

2854
02:29:21,400 --> 02:29:25,080
Speaker 12: Yes, But like the idea that you're like holding holding

2855
02:29:25,120 --> 02:29:28,640
Speaker 12: Pelosi is a hostage to get like a gender theory

2856
02:29:28,920 --> 02:29:33,240
Speaker 12: women's studies professor is just so much more like like

2857
02:29:33,800 --> 02:29:37,360
Speaker 12: highlighting the type of American brain rot that is just

2858
02:29:37,560 --> 02:29:40,800
Speaker 12: totally taking over large swaths of the media, of the

2859
02:29:40,840 --> 02:29:42,320
Speaker 12: media ecosystem at this point.

2860
02:29:42,400 --> 02:29:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of my favorite details from this

2861
02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:46,880
Speaker 2: is that if you go into like his court case,

2862
02:29:46,959 --> 02:29:50,439
Speaker 2: why he chose to attack the home of again Nancy Pelosi,

2863
02:29:51,120 --> 02:29:54,840
Speaker 2: super wealthy, powerful person with a security detail, is because

2864
02:29:54,879 --> 02:29:58,400
Speaker 2: he believed this Gail Rubin, this professor lived in a

2865
02:29:58,480 --> 02:29:59,760
Speaker 2: fortress that he.

2866
02:29:59,760 --> 02:30:01,000
Speaker 3: Could not break into.

2867
02:30:01,640 --> 02:30:05,640
Speaker 2: This woman's studies professor lives in an underground bunker.

2868
02:30:05,959 --> 02:30:08,280
Speaker 12: It was easier to get to the speaker of the

2869
02:30:08,320 --> 02:30:13,280
Speaker 12: house's home that it is a woman studies professor's house.

2870
02:30:14,200 --> 02:30:17,279
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting too that it was specifically James Lindsay,

2871
02:30:17,280 --> 02:30:19,000
Speaker 3: who I don't know. Have we talked about him.

2872
02:30:18,840 --> 02:30:19,560
Speaker 4: Really on the show.

2873
02:30:20,760 --> 02:30:22,879
Speaker 12: I'm I'm sure in passing.

2874
02:30:22,560 --> 02:30:24,920
Speaker 2: But we had a big Twitter fight with him earlier

2875
02:30:24,959 --> 02:30:25,400
Speaker 2: this year.

2876
02:30:25,840 --> 02:30:32,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had held yeah, my, you know. So he's

2877
02:30:32,440 --> 02:30:35,080
Speaker 3: an interesting he's like kind of like a proto Chris

2878
02:30:35,160 --> 02:30:39,200
Speaker 3: Rufo like, but he's interesting because he's one of these

2879
02:30:39,240 --> 02:30:43,600
Speaker 3: people who makes a very classic mistake in in when

2880
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:45,600
Speaker 3: you're trying to become a media person which is that

2881
02:30:45,640 --> 02:30:49,520
Speaker 3: he tries to do theory bullshit and it's on it

2882
02:30:49,640 --> 02:30:53,840
Speaker 3: it's it's nonsense like and hey like it's it's you know,

2883
02:30:53,879 --> 02:30:58,359
Speaker 3: but his things he's trying to derive basically, like effectively,

2884
02:30:58,360 --> 02:31:00,400
Speaker 3: what he's trying to do is derive a theory radical

2885
02:31:00,440 --> 02:31:04,080
Speaker 3: basis for the whole like Judeo Bolshevik conspiracy, which he

2886
02:31:04,560 --> 02:31:06,920
Speaker 3: was one of the big sort of cultural Marxism people. Yeah,

2887
02:31:07,000 --> 02:31:08,040
Speaker 3: well he is.

2888
02:31:08,080 --> 02:31:11,920
Speaker 12: He is probably most known for propagating the critical race

2889
02:31:12,000 --> 02:31:14,240
Speaker 12: theory kind of debacle that happened a few years ago

2890
02:31:14,480 --> 02:31:18,879
Speaker 12: that was mostly spearheaded by this guy, James Lindsay.

2891
02:31:19,280 --> 02:31:21,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he's trying to he's like his project is

2892
02:31:21,360 --> 02:31:24,520
Speaker 3: intellectual project. He's trying to trace this line from Hegel

2893
02:31:24,600 --> 02:31:28,760
Speaker 3: through Marx, through Gromsey, through Mouth, through the Frankfurt School,

2894
02:31:29,360 --> 02:31:34,200
Speaker 3: through the sixties radicals, and it's it's It's interesting though,

2895
02:31:34,240 --> 02:31:36,879
Speaker 3: because what he's doing is he's he's he's he's part

2896
02:31:36,920 --> 02:31:41,840
Speaker 3: of this really systemic attempt to completely and we saw

2897
02:31:41,879 --> 02:31:43,560
Speaker 3: this this this is the result of this is this

2898
02:31:43,560 --> 02:31:47,760
Speaker 3: Paul Pelosi attack. It's to completely obscure the actual power

2899
02:31:47,760 --> 02:31:49,959
Speaker 3: relations of American society to the point where Yeah, the

2900
02:31:49,959 --> 02:31:53,000
Speaker 3: thing we've been talking about happens where because this person

2901
02:31:53,040 --> 02:31:56,240
Speaker 3: thinks that this Marxist conspiracy from gender studies professors is

2902
02:31:56,240 --> 02:31:58,879
Speaker 3: actually the thing that controls the US. He is like

2903
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:02,000
Speaker 3: kidnapping one of like the husband of one of the

2904
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:05,279
Speaker 3: most powerful people in the United States because he thinks

2905
02:32:05,360 --> 02:32:08,360
Speaker 3: that as a way to get to a gender studies professor.

2906
02:32:08,400 --> 02:32:11,440
Speaker 3: It's it's this, it's this interesting I think, like, I

2907
02:32:11,440 --> 02:32:14,359
Speaker 3: don't know, it's I think it's this interesting demonstration of

2908
02:32:14,360 --> 02:32:18,600
Speaker 3: of how of how right wing ideology is specifically designed

2909
02:32:18,640 --> 02:32:22,080
Speaker 3: to act to like conceal the actual power relations to

2910
02:32:22,120 --> 02:32:25,000
Speaker 3: society and then blame like queer people for it. It's like.

2911
02:32:27,040 --> 02:32:31,200
Speaker 2: It's taken Lindsey comes out of academia too, right. He's

2912
02:32:31,240 --> 02:32:33,080
Speaker 2: like this professor at a in watch.

2913
02:32:33,120 --> 02:32:35,200
Speaker 3: But he's like he's like a math professor or something.

2914
02:32:35,240 --> 02:32:36,680
Speaker 3: He's like no, no, It's like.

2915
02:32:36,920 --> 02:32:40,680
Speaker 2: It's basically the gist of what why. What happens is

2916
02:32:40,720 --> 02:32:42,920
Speaker 2: he realizes you're never going to get rich being a

2917
02:32:42,920 --> 02:32:46,279
Speaker 2: math professor, but if you become a right wing thought leader,

2918
02:32:46,400 --> 02:32:49,000
Speaker 2: you know there's money in that. So he makes the

2919
02:32:49,160 --> 02:32:51,960
Speaker 2: series of bullshit claims about how he's being oppressed by

2920
02:32:52,480 --> 02:32:56,920
Speaker 2: fucking evil progressive fascism. And yeah, this is why. Also

2921
02:32:57,040 --> 02:32:59,800
Speaker 2: all of his grievances are so focused around academics. It's

2922
02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:04,000
Speaker 2: because he still has academia brainworms, where everything that matters

2923
02:33:04,160 --> 02:33:09,200
Speaker 2: is like what this handful of upper middle class professors

2924
02:33:09,240 --> 02:33:11,959
Speaker 2: at fancy ivy league schools argue about.

2925
02:33:12,560 --> 02:33:15,879
Speaker 12: He also believes that queer people are engaging in a

2926
02:33:15,879 --> 02:33:19,360
Speaker 12: form of ancient hermetic magic, which is.

2927
02:33:19,480 --> 02:33:22,039
Speaker 2: That party Harrison. If I know you at all, that

2928
02:33:22,160 --> 02:33:24,760
Speaker 2: part's true, Like that's accurate.

2929
02:33:25,280 --> 02:33:27,280
Speaker 3: It's so funny that he got there because like, like when

2930
02:33:27,320 --> 02:33:29,360
Speaker 3: I was arguing with him, he was trying to argue

2931
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:33,560
Speaker 3: that Mao had read this Gramsey, who's this Italian Marxist

2932
02:33:33,600 --> 02:33:37,400
Speaker 3: theory she demonstrably cannot have read because Gramsey's prison notebooks

2933
02:33:37,400 --> 02:33:39,920
Speaker 3: don't come out until like art translated in Chinese, until

2934
02:33:39,920 --> 02:33:43,160
Speaker 3: after Mao dies. So it's like it's it's physically impossible

2935
02:33:43,160 --> 02:33:44,640
Speaker 3: for him to have done this. But it's funny because

2936
02:33:44,680 --> 02:33:47,760
Speaker 3: like he's gone from that to like the queer hermetic

2937
02:33:48,200 --> 02:33:51,440
Speaker 3: like yes, yes, to destroy the.

2938
02:33:53,600 --> 02:33:55,920
Speaker 12: Who do we want to talk about next? Because I

2939
02:33:55,959 --> 02:33:58,760
Speaker 12: have I have, I have my Dayton Shooter, and I

2940
02:33:59,080 --> 02:33:59,560
Speaker 12: know we we.

2941
02:33:59,840 --> 02:34:02,440
Speaker 3: Have we have a list of let's do, let's let's do,

2942
02:34:02,520 --> 02:34:04,320
Speaker 3: let's do date and shooter and then close out with

2943
02:34:04,400 --> 02:34:06,760
Speaker 3: the two antipas.

2944
02:34:06,400 --> 02:34:08,920
Speaker 2: And yeah, so yeah, I'm not I don't know shit

2945
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:11,040
Speaker 2: about this, so dating me up, motherfuckers.

2946
02:34:11,800 --> 02:34:14,800
Speaker 12: So a few days before Thanksgiving, well home, we should

2947
02:34:14,800 --> 02:34:15,720
Speaker 12: we should take geo.

2948
02:34:16,200 --> 02:34:19,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, speaking of Thanksgiving, you know what, I'm thankful

2949
02:34:19,480 --> 02:34:24,840
Speaker 2: for the fact that we're supported by advertisers and we're back. Okay,

2950
02:34:24,920 --> 02:34:26,720
Speaker 2: let's talk about this fucking Dyton shooting.

2951
02:34:27,360 --> 02:34:31,720
Speaker 12: A few days before Thanksgiving, someone walked into a Walmart

2952
02:34:31,760 --> 02:34:35,640
Speaker 12: in Beaver Creek, Ohio with I believe it was a

2953
02:34:36,000 --> 02:34:38,480
Speaker 12: it was a high point forty five caliber carbine.

2954
02:34:38,120 --> 02:34:40,720
Speaker 2: With wow high point Okay, yeah, yeah.

2955
02:34:41,240 --> 02:34:44,080
Speaker 12: He shot four people before eventually dying of a self

2956
02:34:44,120 --> 02:34:48,200
Speaker 12: inflicted gunshot wound. Victims were transferred to the hospital. It

2957
02:34:48,200 --> 02:34:51,680
Speaker 12: looks like nobody actually died besides the shooter. So hey,

2958
02:34:51,720 --> 02:34:55,600
Speaker 12: that's a win, great, great job medical medical teams. But

2959
02:34:56,360 --> 02:34:59,680
Speaker 12: upon looking into this this guy's home, it's very very

2960
02:34:59,760 --> 02:35:03,080
Speaker 12: kind of standard stuff. Ever since twenty sixteen, we have

2961
02:35:03,160 --> 02:35:08,480
Speaker 12: Nazi flags, we have Nazi books. He's he went to

2962
02:35:08,520 --> 02:35:11,800
Speaker 12: a Christian online school. He was twenty years old. He

2963
02:35:11,879 --> 02:35:15,039
Speaker 12: spent almost all of his time at home on the internet.

2964
02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:19,840
Speaker 12: He did not believe the Holocaust was real. He had

2965
02:35:19,879 --> 02:35:24,960
Speaker 12: been to the hospital before for mental health evaluations. The

2966
02:35:25,040 --> 02:35:28,119
Speaker 12: FBI referred to his beliefs as a quote loosely organized

2967
02:35:28,160 --> 02:35:30,960
Speaker 12: movement of individuals and groups that espouse some combination of racist,

2968
02:35:30,959 --> 02:35:35,040
Speaker 12: aidy Semitica, zenophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic, and homophobic ideology, which is

2969
02:35:35,080 --> 02:35:38,800
Speaker 12: a very very broad broadway of saying. Yeah, he was

2970
02:35:38,920 --> 02:35:41,280
Speaker 12: like a far right nut job. He was very very

2971
02:35:41,600 --> 02:35:45,560
Speaker 12: typical kind of Nazi guy. He had two swastika flags.

2972
02:35:45,959 --> 02:35:50,720
Speaker 12: Now because he died, it's where people are still putting

2973
02:35:50,720 --> 02:35:53,440
Speaker 12: together like what exactly led to him to like do

2974
02:35:53,640 --> 02:35:58,440
Speaker 12: this specific act because they can't like talk to him.

2975
02:35:59,440 --> 02:36:03,560
Speaker 12: But yeah, it was very very typical sort of thing

2976
02:36:03,680 --> 02:36:06,200
Speaker 12: of this guy deciding to go into a Walmart and

2977
02:36:06,200 --> 02:36:09,760
Speaker 12: do a shooting. This is something that other Nazi accelerationists

2978
02:36:10,040 --> 02:36:13,440
Speaker 12: have done before. It's something that will probably keep happening.

2979
02:36:13,800 --> 02:36:15,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean for sure.

2980
02:36:15,400 --> 02:36:17,080
Speaker 12: It's it's it's it's, it's it's it's it's not like

2981
02:36:17,120 --> 02:36:21,360
Speaker 12: a big story, it's it's just another thing that's happened.

2982
02:36:21,400 --> 02:36:24,000
Speaker 12: But it is weird, the sort of like normalization of

2983
02:36:24,040 --> 02:36:26,160
Speaker 12: it of like oh yeah, not see to the Walmart

2984
02:36:26,160 --> 02:36:29,440
Speaker 12: shooting again. Isn't actually a story anymore. It's just like no,

2985
02:36:29,840 --> 02:36:31,320
Speaker 12: it's just it's just another Tuesday.

2986
02:36:32,120 --> 02:36:35,119
Speaker 2: No, And this is like what the right wants, by

2987
02:36:35,160 --> 02:36:38,400
Speaker 2: the way, is that like when they do these mass shootings,

2988
02:36:38,879 --> 02:36:41,560
Speaker 2: it does not make the news, and whenever they can

2989
02:36:41,560 --> 02:36:45,080
Speaker 2: blame a shooting on a queer, a trans person, they

2990
02:36:45,080 --> 02:36:46,800
Speaker 2: try to keep it, make it be the only thing

2991
02:36:46,840 --> 02:36:49,160
Speaker 2: anyone talks about, right, Like this is this is part

2992
02:36:49,160 --> 02:36:52,480
Speaker 2: of the plan, you know. Yeah, And it's a bummer

2993
02:36:52,520 --> 02:36:57,519
Speaker 2: that it's it's worked, just because like, h it's impossible

2994
02:36:57,560 --> 02:37:00,560
Speaker 2: to stay at an equal level of anger every time

2995
02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:04,119
Speaker 2: this happens. It's so common, you know, like you just can't.

2996
02:37:04,160 --> 02:37:07,560
Speaker 2: You can't continue existing and have the same reaction to

2997
02:37:07,600 --> 02:37:08,880
Speaker 2: these that you had in twenty nineteen.

2998
02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:12,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, So I mean like that, I don't have much

2999
02:37:12,560 --> 02:37:14,920
Speaker 12: else on this because it's just it's this guy who

3000
02:37:14,959 --> 02:37:17,360
Speaker 12: played video games alone for most of his life, went

3001
02:37:17,400 --> 02:37:21,000
Speaker 12: to a Christian online homeschool, never really interacted with the public.

3002
02:37:22,120 --> 02:37:27,520
Speaker 12: It was almost solely existed within this like medio ecosystem online,

3003
02:37:27,800 --> 02:37:30,520
Speaker 12: which pushed him towards buying a book on the history

3004
02:37:30,520 --> 02:37:33,560
Speaker 12: of the SS and buying multiple Nazi flags and not

3005
02:37:33,640 --> 02:37:37,520
Speaker 12: thinking the Holocaust is real. And this, this is the

3006
02:37:37,600 --> 02:37:42,640
Speaker 12: inevitable result of this sort of thing. So I guess

3007
02:37:43,280 --> 02:37:48,280
Speaker 12: do we want to segue to Vermont for our next next?

3008
02:37:48,440 --> 02:37:48,560
Speaker 3: Like?

3009
02:37:48,879 --> 02:37:51,680
Speaker 12: Something happened? I think less than a week later, it

3010
02:37:51,760 --> 02:37:52,240
Speaker 12: sure did.

3011
02:37:52,280 --> 02:37:55,800
Speaker 2: But first, Garrison, speaking of segues, did you realize that

3012
02:37:55,800 --> 02:37:58,360
Speaker 2: the guy who bought the segue company died in a

3013
02:37:58,400 --> 02:37:59,960
Speaker 2: segue crash in Scotland?

3014
02:38:00,080 --> 02:38:00,160
Speaker 11: Ye?

3015
02:38:00,520 --> 02:38:01,879
Speaker 3: Segment off of.

3016
02:38:03,480 --> 02:38:04,000
Speaker 1: Garrison.

3017
02:38:04,560 --> 02:38:06,000
Speaker 3: He sure did you know?

3018
02:38:06,360 --> 02:38:09,080
Speaker 12: This is this is why I think there is a

3019
02:38:09,120 --> 02:38:11,440
Speaker 12: little bit of magic that is reel, because every once

3020
02:38:11,520 --> 02:38:14,039
Speaker 12: in a while, the funniest thing happens.

3021
02:38:15,640 --> 02:38:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh man, what a what a stupid product?

3022
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:19,160
Speaker 3: Segues.

3023
02:38:20,879 --> 02:38:23,080
Speaker 2: I remember when those first came out and people were like,

3024
02:38:23,120 --> 02:38:26,480
Speaker 2: this is the future of transportation. And then everyone who

3025
02:38:26,600 --> 02:38:28,920
Speaker 2: was not completely brain dead was like, of course they're not.

3026
02:38:28,920 --> 02:38:30,959
Speaker 3: Look at how dumb those things look. Nobody's gonna want

3027
02:38:30,959 --> 02:38:31,560
Speaker 3: to drive these.

3028
02:38:31,879 --> 02:38:34,480
Speaker 12: I mean, if I was a self educated finance guy,

3029
02:38:35,440 --> 02:38:38,960
Speaker 12: I'm sure I would be able to to to to

3030
02:38:39,080 --> 02:38:41,640
Speaker 12: estimate the life cycle of the sega.

3031
02:38:41,800 --> 02:38:43,480
Speaker 2: You're not gonna make it if you if you just

3032
02:38:43,600 --> 02:38:46,360
Speaker 2: walk like a peasant, you gotta get a one wheel

3033
02:38:46,360 --> 02:38:47,279
Speaker 2: that explodes.

3034
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:50,720
Speaker 3: It's so funny to me too, because it's like like

3035
02:38:51,200 --> 02:38:53,080
Speaker 3: a thing there. Like I genuinely think is a real

3036
02:38:53,240 --> 02:38:56,160
Speaker 3: kind of shift in our modes of transportation, is that

3037
02:38:56,200 --> 02:38:58,840
Speaker 3: people really did start using electric bikes more and then

3038
02:38:58,879 --> 02:39:00,640
Speaker 3: as a lost to those are three and stuff.

3039
02:39:00,720 --> 02:39:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a huge amount.

3040
02:39:02,280 --> 02:39:02,520
Speaker 1: Actually.

3041
02:39:04,240 --> 02:39:07,560
Speaker 2: Instead no, it's like, yeah, we don't need you don't

3042
02:39:07,560 --> 02:39:11,480
Speaker 2: need to fuck with the form factor. People are happy

3043
02:39:11,600 --> 02:39:15,160
Speaker 2: using bikes. They're just too slow and sometimes too much

3044
02:39:15,200 --> 02:39:17,800
Speaker 2: effort is required. So you make that easier and then

3045
02:39:17,800 --> 02:39:20,959
Speaker 2: people don't drive as fucking much. Great idea. Speaking of

3046
02:39:21,000 --> 02:39:25,400
Speaker 2: a bad idea, let's talk about this other mass shooter

3047
02:39:25,560 --> 02:39:28,800
Speaker 2: in Vermont from from last week. This actually happened on

3048
02:39:28,879 --> 02:39:32,360
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Day, So this guy, I think it was on

3049
02:39:32,400 --> 02:39:33,240
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Day.

3050
02:39:34,240 --> 02:39:36,360
Speaker 12: It may have been like a day or two later.

3051
02:39:36,680 --> 02:39:38,680
Speaker 2: It was Saturday night, so that would have been. Yeah,

3052
02:39:38,680 --> 02:39:40,280
Speaker 2: that would have been like the day or two after,

3053
02:39:40,680 --> 02:39:43,920
Speaker 2: two days after Thanksgiving. So two days after Thanksgiving, you know,

3054
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:48,720
Speaker 2: you've got these three twenty year old Palestinian men who

3055
02:39:48,760 --> 02:39:51,840
Speaker 2: are in town visiting family. You know they're doing I

3056
02:39:51,840 --> 02:39:53,439
Speaker 2: think they go over and do they do a Thanksgiving

3057
02:39:53,480 --> 02:39:56,440
Speaker 2: dinner with some friends. They're over another people's.

3058
02:39:56,280 --> 02:39:58,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this big thing they were leaving was it

3059
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:01,680
Speaker 3: was they Yes, they went to an eight year old's

3060
02:40:01,720 --> 02:40:06,760
Speaker 3: birthday party. Yes, yes, yeah.

3061
02:40:06,760 --> 02:40:09,480
Speaker 2: They're with one of them's uncle who lives in Burlington.

3062
02:40:09,720 --> 02:40:13,640
Speaker 2: And these kids are all students at different Northeast I think,

3063
02:40:13,680 --> 02:40:17,280
Speaker 2: all Northeast colleges. One's from Brown University, once from Haverford,

3064
02:40:17,680 --> 02:40:21,160
Speaker 2: one is from Trinity College. Two of them are citizens

3065
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:24,320
Speaker 2: and the other is I think naturalized or at least

3066
02:40:24,320 --> 02:40:26,920
Speaker 2: a permanent resident. And at some point after you know

3067
02:40:26,959 --> 02:40:30,800
Speaker 2: they're they're hanging out at this event, family event, They're like,

3068
02:40:30,920 --> 02:40:32,800
Speaker 2: let's go on a walk. You know, it's a nice night.

3069
02:40:32,920 --> 02:40:36,080
Speaker 2: Let's let's have us a walk around. And they're they're

3070
02:40:36,080 --> 02:40:40,119
Speaker 2: walking around. They're near an apartment building and this forty

3071
02:40:40,200 --> 02:40:45,200
Speaker 2: eight year old man named Jason j Eaton steps off

3072
02:40:45,240 --> 02:40:48,600
Speaker 2: his porch, pulls out a gun, and apparently without saying anything,

3073
02:40:48,959 --> 02:40:52,080
Speaker 2: fires at least four shots at these three young men.

3074
02:40:52,440 --> 02:40:54,680
Speaker 2: Two of them are shot and they're torso. A third

3075
02:40:54,879 --> 02:40:58,160
Speaker 2: is shot in the lower extremities. They are all alive. Still,

3076
02:40:58,240 --> 02:40:59,880
Speaker 2: they're all expected to live and think one of them

3077
02:40:59,920 --> 02:41:01,920
Speaker 2: was more seriously injured than the others, but they're all

3078
02:41:02,400 --> 02:41:07,000
Speaker 2: like going to survive, thankfully. And then Eaton flees on foot.

3079
02:41:07,720 --> 02:41:09,680
Speaker 2: I think like the next day the police catch up

3080
02:41:09,680 --> 02:41:11,760
Speaker 2: with them. He used a three to eighty pistol, if

3081
02:41:11,800 --> 02:41:15,480
Speaker 2: that matters to you, which is a fairly small handgun,

3082
02:41:16,400 --> 02:41:21,560
Speaker 2: which probably explains why everybody's survived. And yeah, so that's

3083
02:41:21,760 --> 02:41:25,720
Speaker 2: the extent of like what physically happened on the day. Again,

3084
02:41:25,800 --> 02:41:28,879
Speaker 2: Eaton doesn't say anything before he starts shooting. There's no

3085
02:41:29,040 --> 02:41:32,240
Speaker 2: evidence that he knew these guys. They are apparently speaking

3086
02:41:32,320 --> 02:41:35,360
Speaker 2: in a mixture of Arabic and English as they walk by,

3087
02:41:35,440 --> 02:41:37,360
Speaker 2: which and also at least I think two of them

3088
02:41:37,360 --> 02:41:43,080
Speaker 2: were wearing like Palestinian color sort of shimogs or kefias.

3089
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:44,120
Speaker 3: I don't think that.

3090
02:41:44,240 --> 02:41:46,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like like not like the

3091
02:41:46,480 --> 02:41:49,080
Speaker 2: colors of the Palestinian flag, but like the color palette

3092
02:41:49,120 --> 02:41:53,800
Speaker 2: there is used in that specific it's white and black, yeah, scarps, yeah, yeah,

3093
02:41:53,879 --> 02:41:59,039
Speaker 2: yeah exactly. Eaton was a finance broker and advisor kind

3094
02:41:59,080 --> 02:42:01,320
Speaker 2: of part time. I don't know how much money he

3095
02:42:01,400 --> 02:42:02,240
Speaker 2: actually made from it.

3096
02:42:02,760 --> 02:42:05,640
Speaker 12: Yeah, he was like working on a farm part time. Yeah,

3097
02:42:05,640 --> 02:42:08,400
Speaker 12: he was employed at Edward Jones a few years ago.

3098
02:42:08,840 --> 02:42:12,920
Speaker 12: He's kind of yeah, he's this this libertarian finance bro.

3099
02:42:13,720 --> 02:42:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so yeah, people found his social pretty quickly.

3100
02:42:18,040 --> 02:42:24,360
Speaker 2: There's like an archived Twitter, which is really standard standard

3101
02:42:24,480 --> 02:42:28,520
Speaker 2: libertarian stuff. He talks about like, he complains about the

3102
02:42:28,560 --> 02:42:32,320
Speaker 2: Fed an awful lot. He quotes Elon Musk a number

3103
02:42:32,320 --> 02:42:33,880
Speaker 2: of times. He seems to be a fan of him,

3104
02:42:33,920 --> 02:42:36,800
Speaker 2: but he's also a huge fan of Bernie Sanders and described, yes,

3105
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:39,480
Speaker 2: like the only good man in politics pretty much.

3106
02:42:39,720 --> 02:42:39,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3107
02:42:40,040 --> 02:42:41,560
Speaker 12: I think it's kind of like it's kind of like

3108
02:42:41,720 --> 02:42:45,600
Speaker 12: the Joe Rogan libertarian of like right, right, yes, very much.

3109
02:42:45,680 --> 02:42:48,200
Speaker 12: So you like Bernie because he's like he like curious

3110
02:42:48,200 --> 02:42:50,440
Speaker 12: about like the people. He's not like he's not like

3111
02:42:50,800 --> 02:42:53,959
Speaker 12: falling for like the big finance corporation stuf blah blah

3112
02:42:53,959 --> 02:42:54,760
Speaker 12: blah blah blah.

3113
02:42:54,920 --> 02:42:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's like it's this old sort of like

3114
02:42:57,080 --> 02:42:59,720
Speaker 3: the oh my god, what I've forgotten his name, the

3115
02:42:59,720 --> 02:43:04,080
Speaker 3: liberitarian guy from the two thousands and early twenty tens

3116
02:43:05,600 --> 02:43:10,920
Speaker 3: who were the Riddler suits. No, he was a congressman.

3117
02:43:12,600 --> 02:43:14,320
Speaker 3: He was like he was like one of the fashions

3118
02:43:14,320 --> 02:43:17,280
Speaker 3: in occupy was like these weird libertarians and it's like

3119
02:43:17,400 --> 02:43:19,160
Speaker 3: this seems like that's like the ideological as sentence of

3120
02:43:19,160 --> 02:43:22,640
Speaker 3: those people who didn't turn into like neo Confederate like

3121
02:43:22,840 --> 02:43:24,080
Speaker 3: yeah people.

3122
02:43:24,240 --> 02:43:28,039
Speaker 2: And it's in his old archived Twitter account, he describes

3123
02:43:28,120 --> 02:43:32,320
Speaker 2: himself like His profile describes him as radical citizen patrolling democracy,

3124
02:43:32,760 --> 02:43:36,039
Speaker 2: which he spells with a K, and crapitalism for oath keepers,

3125
02:43:36,680 --> 02:43:40,520
Speaker 2: well oath creepers. I don't know entirely what all of

3126
02:43:40,600 --> 02:43:46,120
Speaker 2: that means, and then hashtag wild type with the little

3127
02:43:46,160 --> 02:43:51,520
Speaker 2: atomic symbol, which I guess means he likes science. He

3128
02:43:51,560 --> 02:43:54,199
Speaker 2: describes himself as a dad and a part time farmer,

3129
02:43:54,800 --> 02:43:59,360
Speaker 2: a reformed yes stockbroker, and his archived account includes a

3130
02:43:59,400 --> 02:44:03,200
Speaker 2: link to his subs stack, which is our DKL radical.

3131
02:44:03,959 --> 02:44:06,440
Speaker 2: He describes it as yeah, wander wandering ramblings of a

3132
02:44:06,480 --> 02:44:10,640
Speaker 2: reformed broker on the ADHD ASD spectrum. He's claiming at

3133
02:44:10,720 --> 02:44:16,160
Speaker 2: least to have ADHD and autism. It's uh, he's deleted.

3134
02:44:16,320 --> 02:44:18,160
Speaker 2: By the time we got to them. Everyone got to

3135
02:44:18,200 --> 02:44:21,320
Speaker 2: the most of the posts on his sub stack. The

3136
02:44:21,360 --> 02:44:23,800
Speaker 2: only thing on there is a really extensive post where

3137
02:44:23,800 --> 02:44:28,400
Speaker 2: he's like talking about how how restaurants can keep dishwashers employed.

3138
02:44:28,920 --> 02:44:31,160
Speaker 2: He seems to have worked this one and be angry

3139
02:44:31,160 --> 02:44:33,959
Speaker 2: that they're not always paid fair wage commensurate to back

3140
02:44:34,000 --> 02:44:35,720
Speaker 2: on the Lion or in front of the Lion staff,

3141
02:44:35,760 --> 02:44:38,920
Speaker 2: I guess, which is like not unreasonable, but an odd

3142
02:44:38,920 --> 02:44:40,520
Speaker 2: thing for him to be so focused on.

3143
02:44:42,120 --> 02:44:47,360
Speaker 12: He has a really interesting online footprint. Yes, at least

3144
02:44:47,680 --> 02:44:53,520
Speaker 12: like everything like pre pandemic is like he's like this

3145
02:44:53,720 --> 02:44:56,720
Speaker 12: regular libertarian finance guy. Like there's not like there's nothing

3146
02:44:56,800 --> 02:45:01,840
Speaker 12: too concerning. He's like or he's yeah, he's like retweeting

3147
02:45:02,240 --> 02:45:04,920
Speaker 12: like the Libertarian Party of Tennessee saying that they like

3148
02:45:04,959 --> 02:45:08,600
Speaker 12: Bernie Sanders, and like he's he has like this podcast

3149
02:45:08,640 --> 02:45:11,760
Speaker 12: where he talks about penny Stalks, and it's like it's

3150
02:45:11,840 --> 02:45:15,120
Speaker 12: a lot of like you see a lots of these

3151
02:45:15,160 --> 02:45:17,080
Speaker 12: types of guy around and most of them are just

3152
02:45:17,120 --> 02:45:20,840
Speaker 12: like guys in their forties, because that's what he was,

3153
02:45:20,879 --> 02:45:22,640
Speaker 12: Just like a libertarian guy in his forties who lived

3154
02:45:22,640 --> 02:45:23,359
Speaker 12: in Vermont.

3155
02:45:23,440 --> 02:45:27,600
Speaker 2: So like yeah, so you know, as you kind of stated, Garrison,

3156
02:45:27,680 --> 02:45:34,000
Speaker 2: he's pretty normal up until he gets like COVID hits,

3157
02:45:34,160 --> 02:45:37,160
Speaker 2: and that seems to be what pushes him over the limit.

3158
02:45:37,200 --> 02:45:40,560
Speaker 2: I want to read a quote from Vice News here,

3159
02:45:40,640 --> 02:45:43,560
Speaker 2: who's done a lengthy breakdown of his social media presence.

3160
02:45:44,000 --> 02:45:46,440
Speaker 2: One post from March twenty twenty two titled thought crime.

3161
02:45:46,480 --> 02:45:48,880
Speaker 2: It's an anti vax screed that labels COVID nineteen as

3162
02:45:48,879 --> 02:45:52,000
Speaker 2: a government conspiracy. The scale and scope of this operation

3163
02:45:52,240 --> 02:45:54,959
Speaker 2: was next level, he wrote. He also shared other anti

3164
02:45:55,000 --> 02:45:57,520
Speaker 2: vax sentiments on his LinkedIn, and wrote last year that

3165
02:45:57,560 --> 02:46:00,800
Speaker 2: he'd started deleting or unpublishing certain posts because my ideas

3166
02:46:00,800 --> 02:46:03,440
Speaker 2: make some people not want to hire me. He also

3167
02:46:03,480 --> 02:46:05,960
Speaker 2: has an Instagram account, which is largely dedicated to sharing

3168
02:46:05,959 --> 02:46:08,320
Speaker 2: images from his farm. Only one post hints at any

3169
02:46:08,320 --> 02:46:11,520
Speaker 2: ideological or political outlook, which is a screenshot from the

3170
02:46:11,640 --> 02:46:14,959
Speaker 2: Urban Dictionary definition of America with a K, a word

3171
02:46:15,040 --> 02:46:17,160
Speaker 2: used to describe the worst sense of the United States,

3172
02:46:17,240 --> 02:46:20,920
Speaker 2: i e. Imperialism, corruption, and the global exportation of American culture.

3173
02:46:21,280 --> 02:46:23,440
Speaker 2: His Instagram links to another blog, which has the same

3174
02:46:23,520 --> 02:46:26,280
Speaker 2: name as his substack and contains rambling podcasts about the

3175
02:46:26,320 --> 02:46:30,160
Speaker 2: financial system. He's uploaded documentation of his various qualifications over

3176
02:46:30,200 --> 02:46:32,200
Speaker 2: the years. One document indicates that he was a Boy

3177
02:46:32,240 --> 02:46:35,879
Speaker 2: Scout leader between at least twenty seventeen and twenty twenty one.

3178
02:46:36,080 --> 02:46:38,240
Speaker 2: Don't worry everyone, the boy Scouts are not letting this

3179
02:46:38,280 --> 02:46:39,960
Speaker 2: guy continue to be an adult leader.

3180
02:46:41,600 --> 02:46:46,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's the homepage of his website just reads together

3181
02:46:47,240 --> 02:46:51,119
Speaker 12: no King. And there's a lot of stuff that looks

3182
02:46:51,160 --> 02:46:54,920
Speaker 12: like it's been deleted, a lot of weird financial advice

3183
02:46:55,840 --> 02:47:00,520
Speaker 12: under the name radical Citizen spelled all stupid. But you

3184
02:47:00,760 --> 02:47:03,600
Speaker 12: like I I've I found his YouTube pretty quick. I

3185
02:47:03,600 --> 02:47:05,880
Speaker 12: found his LinkedIn pretty quick. There's a lot of like

3186
02:47:06,120 --> 02:47:08,440
Speaker 12: vaccine's his His YouTube starts with a lot of like

3187
02:47:08,520 --> 02:47:12,480
Speaker 12: vaccine hesitancy stuff. Yeah, and then on his LinkedIn he

3188
02:47:12,520 --> 02:47:16,000
Speaker 12: moves into like full full like weird like COVID conspiracies,

3189
02:47:16,120 --> 02:47:21,160
Speaker 12: vaccine denial, vaccine conspiracy theories. And I will say, I've

3190
02:47:21,240 --> 02:47:25,280
Speaker 12: never seen a shooter post like this on LinkedIn before.

3191
02:47:25,600 --> 02:47:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting, really unique. It's it's a really unique thing.

3192
02:47:29,520 --> 02:47:31,480
Speaker 12: Like so you'll find stuff like this on like Reddit,

3193
02:47:31,560 --> 02:47:34,000
Speaker 12: you'll find stuff like this on Twitter, but having having

3194
02:47:34,040 --> 02:47:38,080
Speaker 12: a shooter share this types of conspiratorial content on LinkedIn

3195
02:47:38,200 --> 02:47:40,560
Speaker 12: and then talk about how he has to delete some

3196
02:47:40,640 --> 02:47:43,680
Speaker 12: because he's not getting hired because LinkedIn's a place to

3197
02:47:43,800 --> 02:47:46,119
Speaker 12: help you get hired Like that's like it's it's it's

3198
02:47:46,120 --> 02:47:49,320
Speaker 12: a really weird platform. Yes, this could just be his

3199
02:47:49,400 --> 02:47:52,720
Speaker 12: like libertarianness showing and like they they use they use

3200
02:47:52,800 --> 02:47:55,920
Speaker 12: LinkedIn because it's like for like business and finance. But

3201
02:47:56,040 --> 02:47:58,640
Speaker 12: it is certainly weird, like the way he was using

3202
02:47:58,680 --> 02:48:04,640
Speaker 12: it is unlike most most like either like like cod COVID,

3203
02:48:04,680 --> 02:48:08,960
Speaker 12: conspiracy shooters, vaccine shooters or whatever his motivation was for this,

3204
02:48:09,040 --> 02:48:13,879
Speaker 12: for targeting three Palestinian people. It's it's certainly certainly a

3205
02:48:14,080 --> 02:48:16,160
Speaker 12: unique facet of this incident.

3206
02:48:16,800 --> 02:48:21,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I don't know. I mean, in some

3207
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:25,720
Speaker 2: ways this is a pretty standard case, and that like

3208
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:29,200
Speaker 2: not the specific things that this guy is starting point,

3209
02:48:29,240 --> 02:48:31,440
Speaker 2: but just the fact that this is a guy who's

3210
02:48:31,480 --> 02:48:34,959
Speaker 2: clearly open to some level of right wing politics and

3211
02:48:35,000 --> 02:48:38,600
Speaker 2: thought influencers. And it seems as if COVID nineteen drove

3212
02:48:38,720 --> 02:48:40,879
Speaker 2: him off a wall ideologically.

3213
02:48:41,800 --> 02:48:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if this

3214
02:48:45,879 --> 02:48:49,400
Speaker 3: winds up being a very you know, if we wind

3215
02:48:49,480 --> 02:48:52,640
Speaker 3: up finding out that a specific motivation for this santi

3216
02:48:52,680 --> 02:48:58,080
Speaker 3: Palsonian racism, because yeah, well yeah we know it also

3217
02:48:58,400 --> 02:48:59,680
Speaker 3: probably is.

3218
02:49:00,080 --> 02:49:03,440
Speaker 12: But his mom describes him as a Christian who takes

3219
02:49:03,440 --> 02:49:06,840
Speaker 12: his spirituality very seriously. She said that he thought the

3220
02:49:06,879 --> 02:49:09,000
Speaker 12: whole state of the world was kind of like a

3221
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:12,119
Speaker 12: big mess right now, like everything everything spiritually is kind

3222
02:49:12,120 --> 02:49:15,520
Speaker 12: of falling apart, is what his mom said. Because he

3223
02:49:15,520 --> 02:49:18,280
Speaker 12: he was he was at Thanksgiving dinner with his family

3224
02:49:18,520 --> 02:49:22,080
Speaker 12: like two nights before this happened. They said he seemed

3225
02:49:22,120 --> 02:49:26,400
Speaker 12: to act be acting like like his usual self. Not

3226
02:49:26,400 --> 02:49:28,800
Speaker 12: not saying like, you know, not saying that he was

3227
02:49:28,840 --> 02:49:30,560
Speaker 12: acting good, but like he was acting.

3228
02:49:30,440 --> 02:49:31,280
Speaker 3: Normal for him.

3229
02:49:32,160 --> 02:49:36,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, but no, he certainly had some some degree of

3230
02:49:36,440 --> 02:49:41,320
Speaker 12: religious affiliation. He talked about using his religious status as

3231
02:49:41,480 --> 02:49:47,640
Speaker 12: to get like vaccine exemptions for his kids. So there's

3232
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:50,440
Speaker 12: stuff stuff like that that that that that does tie

3233
02:49:50,480 --> 02:49:55,080
Speaker 12: to his religious background, which which could certainly contribute to

3234
02:49:55,080 --> 02:49:57,400
Speaker 12: to anti palestining and violence.

3235
02:49:57,959 --> 02:50:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I I don't know, if I had to

3236
02:50:01,320 --> 02:50:06,080
Speaker 2: assume kind of how this went down without more evidence,

3237
02:50:06,240 --> 02:50:10,920
Speaker 2: my guess would be he was having a bad day probably,

3238
02:50:10,959 --> 02:50:14,160
Speaker 2: you know that kind of after the holiday depression. That's

3239
02:50:14,160 --> 02:50:17,120
Speaker 2: not uncommon. He's like listening to or reading some sort

3240
02:50:17,160 --> 02:50:20,879
Speaker 2: of listening to some sort of weird conspiracy podcast, or

3241
02:50:20,879 --> 02:50:24,520
Speaker 2: he's just falling down another rabbit hole online He gets

3242
02:50:24,680 --> 02:50:27,520
Speaker 2: angrier and angrier, and he hears some people talking in

3243
02:50:27,560 --> 02:50:31,480
Speaker 2: Arabic outside, looks out his window sees a Palestinian Kefia

3244
02:50:31,520 --> 02:50:34,560
Speaker 2: and decides, I'm going to just start shooting. I don't

3245
02:50:34,600 --> 02:50:37,000
Speaker 2: actually know, like, I don't know what else it could be.

3246
02:50:37,080 --> 02:50:40,320
Speaker 2: He can't have These people were not like regular walkers

3247
02:50:40,360 --> 02:50:42,280
Speaker 2: in his neighborhoods, so this can't have been like he

3248
02:50:42,320 --> 02:50:45,200
Speaker 2: wasn't laying in wait for them. This seems like from

3249
02:50:45,240 --> 02:50:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, it must have been like a spur of

3250
02:50:46,440 --> 02:50:47,440
Speaker 2: the moment thing, right.

3251
02:50:48,280 --> 02:50:50,120
Speaker 12: He waited for the ATF to come to his door,

3252
02:50:50,160 --> 02:50:52,640
Speaker 12: he said. He said, like I've been expecting you or

3253
02:50:53,040 --> 02:50:54,640
Speaker 12: I've been waiting for you or something, and he said,

3254
02:50:54,920 --> 02:50:57,440
Speaker 12: I don't want to say anything without a lawyers like

3255
02:50:57,440 --> 02:51:01,160
Speaker 12: he he had like, you know, like the libertarian script

3256
02:51:01,200 --> 02:51:03,040
Speaker 12: of like here's what you say if the police are

3257
02:51:03,040 --> 02:51:03,720
Speaker 12: coming to arrest you.

3258
02:51:03,840 --> 02:51:05,320
Speaker 3: Is like, yeah, he didn't.

3259
02:51:05,760 --> 02:51:07,440
Speaker 12: He didn't like kill himself at the end of this

3260
02:51:07,480 --> 02:51:09,120
Speaker 12: act of violence that a lot of other shooters do.

3261
02:51:09,200 --> 02:51:12,039
Speaker 12: He was very very like put together weirdly.

3262
02:51:12,240 --> 02:51:15,000
Speaker 2: And he's he's lawyered up. I guess we'll learn more, but.

3263
02:51:15,879 --> 02:51:18,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, no, it's it's it's certainly interesting. I mean, I've

3264
02:51:18,640 --> 02:51:21,440
Speaker 12: scrolling through the past two years of LinkedIn posts where

3265
02:51:21,440 --> 02:51:24,080
Speaker 12: he posted a lot on like LinkedIn's like social platform,

3266
02:51:24,440 --> 02:51:28,080
Speaker 12: and it's a big mix of like big mix of

3267
02:51:28,120 --> 02:51:32,039
Speaker 12: like financial conspiracy theories and COVID conspiracy theories and vaccine

3268
02:51:32,040 --> 02:51:35,440
Speaker 12: conspiracy theories. I can certainly see how the way the way,

3269
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:39,800
Speaker 12: like libertarians in general the past three years, past, like

3270
02:51:39,920 --> 02:51:43,080
Speaker 12: five years, six years, maybe even since, like the Tea

3271
02:51:43,120 --> 02:51:47,400
Speaker 12: Party realistically have just have been getting increasingly aligned with

3272
02:51:47,520 --> 02:51:52,440
Speaker 12: like other aspects of the far right where uh, it

3273
02:51:52,720 --> 02:51:59,480
Speaker 12: contributes to like transphobia, or it contributes to racism, xenophobia, homophobia. Yeah,

3274
02:51:59,560 --> 02:52:02,879
Speaker 12: like that that that has big that that Venn diagram

3275
02:52:02,920 --> 02:52:04,640
Speaker 12: is slowly becoming more of a circle. And I can

3276
02:52:04,680 --> 02:52:07,120
Speaker 12: certainly see if this guy, this guy obviously was listening

3277
02:52:07,120 --> 02:52:09,320
Speaker 12: to podcasts, if he was making he was making a

3278
02:52:09,360 --> 02:52:12,160
Speaker 12: financial podcast at some point, yeah, he Like, I can

3279
02:52:12,200 --> 02:52:16,800
Speaker 12: totally see if if you're listening to libertarian podcasts, you

3280
02:52:16,920 --> 02:52:19,879
Speaker 12: slowly getting all of these other kind of beliefs that

3281
02:52:19,959 --> 02:52:23,080
Speaker 12: have been seeping in to almost the entirety of the

3282
02:52:23,080 --> 02:52:27,119
Speaker 12: libertarian political project. If you see, like a few years ago,

3283
02:52:27,200 --> 02:52:31,120
Speaker 12: he was retweeting posts from like the libertarian parties of

3284
02:52:31,160 --> 02:52:34,279
Speaker 12: these various states, and now many of those accounts.

3285
02:52:33,879 --> 02:52:35,960
Speaker 3: Are just run by Nazis, Like, yeah, it is.

3286
02:52:36,000 --> 02:52:39,240
Speaker 12: It is, like, yeah, watching how the posting trends of

3287
02:52:39,400 --> 02:52:43,000
Speaker 12: like official libertarian party affiliated accounts have changed the past

3288
02:52:43,040 --> 02:52:45,560
Speaker 12: few years, specifically the New Hampshire account.

3289
02:52:46,200 --> 02:52:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, quite is quite something.

3290
02:52:49,280 --> 02:52:51,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's not always what you'd think because

3291
02:52:51,320 --> 02:52:57,360
Speaker 2: the the the Louisiana Libertarian Party is like super chill, reasonable,

3292
02:52:57,440 --> 02:53:01,400
Speaker 2: anti racist, you know, guy, whereas yeah, the New Hampshire

3293
02:53:01,400 --> 02:53:06,760
Speaker 2: Libertarian Party, dude is like just a straight up Nazi. Yeah, interesting, interesting,

3294
02:53:07,560 --> 02:53:09,840
Speaker 2: good stuff. Should we do our second AD break? Did

3295
02:53:09,840 --> 02:53:10,440
Speaker 2: we already do that?

3296
02:53:10,640 --> 02:53:12,240
Speaker 3: Did we already do it? Anyway?

3297
02:53:12,360 --> 02:53:14,480
Speaker 2: Daniel? If we didn't do a second ad break, here's

3298
02:53:14,520 --> 02:53:19,480
Speaker 2: our second ad break. Ah, we're back after either our

3299
02:53:19,520 --> 02:53:22,080
Speaker 2: second AD break or that will be edited out because

3300
02:53:22,520 --> 02:53:25,640
Speaker 2: we already did too. We forgot which Daniel will figure

3301
02:53:25,680 --> 02:53:28,720
Speaker 2: it out, and you the listener will never know if

3302
02:53:28,720 --> 02:53:31,400
Speaker 2: I fucked up. Dani'll keep it in if I fuck up.

3303
02:53:31,680 --> 02:53:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And speaking of speaking of stuff that's fucked up, yeah, yeah.

3304
02:53:36,920 --> 02:53:39,600
Speaker 3: So the last thing I want to talk about is

3305
02:53:39,680 --> 02:53:43,600
Speaker 3: this is this is an older This is from like October, right, Yeah,

3306
02:53:43,600 --> 02:53:46,440
Speaker 3: this is from October fourteenth, and I think it's specifically

3307
02:53:46,480 --> 02:53:49,480
Speaker 3: this is this is seven days after the sort of

3308
02:53:49,520 --> 02:53:52,560
Speaker 3: Amos attack that started all of the sort of stuff

3309
02:53:52,560 --> 02:53:57,520
Speaker 3: that's been happening in palestein Yeah, so in Plainfield, which

3310
02:53:57,600 --> 02:54:01,840
Speaker 3: is this kind of Yeah, it's like a it's.

3311
02:54:01,720 --> 02:54:03,400
Speaker 12: A really far suburb of Chicago.

3312
02:54:03,920 --> 02:54:06,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's in these things where it's like it's

3313
02:54:06,120 --> 02:54:08,680
Speaker 3: in the kind of I don't know, almost a borderline

3314
02:54:08,760 --> 02:54:11,680
Speaker 3: of is it a suburb like it is, it's a

3315
02:54:11,720 --> 02:54:16,160
Speaker 3: place that sucks ass Yeah, and no offense to anyone

3316
02:54:16,520 --> 02:54:18,840
Speaker 3: living there with yeah, no, like there are good people there,

3317
02:54:18,840 --> 02:54:22,840
Speaker 3: but some of them I assume are good people. Yeah.

3318
02:54:23,000 --> 02:54:26,320
Speaker 3: So on on the fourteenth, a seventy one year old

3319
02:54:26,360 --> 02:54:32,039
Speaker 3: man named Joseph Kuspa who was the landlord of a

3320
02:54:32,080 --> 02:54:36,280
Speaker 3: Palestinian woman and her son and you know, okay, so

3321
02:54:36,480 --> 02:54:39,320
Speaker 3: this story, this story just sucks. They had actually so

3322
02:54:39,480 --> 02:54:43,039
Speaker 3: these this family and their landlord had been like pretty

3323
02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:47,720
Speaker 3: close friends. Like the family had considered him like like

3324
02:54:47,760 --> 02:54:51,520
Speaker 3: a like they considered him like a grandfather. And this

3325
02:54:51,640 --> 02:54:54,120
Speaker 3: guy comes through the door and the six year old

3326
02:54:54,200 --> 02:54:57,039
Speaker 3: kid runs up to go hug him, and he stabs

3327
02:54:57,120 --> 02:54:59,800
Speaker 3: the kid twenty six times and kills him, nearly kills

3328
02:54:59,800 --> 02:55:07,240
Speaker 3: his mom. He's screaming like the entire time about like, Yeah,

3329
02:55:07,240 --> 02:55:10,400
Speaker 3: he's screaming, You Muslims have to die. You're killing our

3330
02:55:10,480 --> 02:55:13,720
Speaker 3: kids in Israel. You Palestinians don't deserve to live. And

3331
02:55:14,400 --> 02:55:17,800
Speaker 3: this is a I think this is a kind of

3332
02:55:18,720 --> 02:55:20,840
Speaker 3: a kind of different kind of shoot of well not

3333
02:55:20,879 --> 02:55:22,920
Speaker 3: sually a different kind of like killing than the ones

3334
02:55:22,959 --> 02:55:24,840
Speaker 3: we've been talking about, because this is a very sort

3335
02:55:24,840 --> 02:55:27,400
Speaker 3: of like wake of two thousand and one killing where

3336
02:55:27,440 --> 02:55:31,119
Speaker 3: you have this enormous, enormous spike in Islamophobia, very specifically here,

3337
02:55:31,200 --> 02:55:35,520
Speaker 3: you have this incredible spike in in anti Palastinian racism,

3338
02:55:35,560 --> 02:55:38,280
Speaker 3: and you have this this period like especially in the

3339
02:55:38,280 --> 02:55:39,920
Speaker 3: week I mean, and this is still happening to this day,

3340
02:55:39,959 --> 02:55:42,680
Speaker 3: but in like the week after, in the week after

3341
02:55:42,720 --> 02:55:47,800
Speaker 3: this all started, you could say fucking anything. You could say.

3342
02:55:48,000 --> 02:55:50,240
Speaker 3: You could you could like you could talk about fucking

3343
02:55:50,240 --> 02:55:53,040
Speaker 3: turning the Gaza strip into glass, like you could talk

3344
02:55:53,080 --> 02:55:55,480
Speaker 3: about fucking dropping nukes, you could talk about killing every

3345
02:55:55,480 --> 02:55:57,520
Speaker 3: single Palestinian on earth. And it was and no one

3346
02:55:57,520 --> 02:56:00,280
Speaker 3: fucking said anything, Right, all these fucking people. All of

3347
02:56:00,280 --> 02:56:02,640
Speaker 3: these fucking all these fucking journalists said nothing all like

3348
02:56:02,680 --> 02:56:05,560
Speaker 3: the president, Like the president only starts talking about his

3349
02:56:05,640 --> 02:56:09,080
Speaker 3: homophobia after this fucking kid gets stabbed the death and

3350
02:56:09,360 --> 02:56:11,560
Speaker 3: you know, and this guy is listening to right wing

3351
02:56:11,600 --> 02:56:13,120
Speaker 3: talk radio, which is why you know, this is like

3352
02:56:13,200 --> 02:56:15,000
Speaker 3: this is a this is an older like this, this

3353
02:56:15,080 --> 02:56:17,320
Speaker 3: is a this is a s pecific kind of killing

3354
02:56:17,320 --> 02:56:20,199
Speaker 3: that like I think is very very similar to the

3355
02:56:20,200 --> 02:56:22,320
Speaker 3: the enormous number of Muslims who were killed and I

3356
02:56:22,360 --> 02:56:25,720
Speaker 3: will seek people too, because these people are just really racist. Yeah,

3357
02:56:25,720 --> 02:56:27,959
Speaker 3: and Pealstinian people who are just killed right after nine

3358
02:56:27,959 --> 02:56:31,520
Speaker 3: to eleven, because there's just this wave of the US

3359
02:56:31,959 --> 02:56:34,520
Speaker 3: that gets into one of these sort of murder frenzies,

3360
02:56:35,520 --> 02:56:37,720
Speaker 3: like one of these sort of racist frenzies. And this

3361
02:56:37,840 --> 02:56:42,600
Speaker 3: kid gets stabbed to death and yeah, this guy, you know,

3362
02:56:42,640 --> 02:56:45,400
Speaker 3: and I mean and like I think, I think the

3363
02:56:45,440 --> 02:56:48,000
Speaker 3: think about this case right like this is you know,

3364
02:56:48,240 --> 02:56:51,000
Speaker 3: this is a radicalization in terms like in terms of

3365
02:56:51,040 --> 02:56:53,280
Speaker 3: like going from going from literally like this kid is

3366
02:56:53,360 --> 02:56:56,040
Speaker 3: running up to hug him because like he had built

3367
02:56:56,040 --> 02:57:00,200
Speaker 3: like a treehouse for the family before this, right, like

3368
02:56:59,720 --> 02:57:02,280
Speaker 3: the like and over the course of like seven days.

3369
02:57:02,320 --> 02:57:05,360
Speaker 3: This guy goes from that to like we need to

3370
02:57:05,400 --> 02:57:07,200
Speaker 3: kill all Muslims and we need to like stab them

3371
02:57:07,240 --> 02:57:12,320
Speaker 3: to death, right, Like it's it's horrible and and this

3372
02:57:12,360 --> 02:57:15,840
Speaker 3: is you know, like this kind of stuff just keeps happening,

3373
02:57:17,000 --> 02:57:20,440
Speaker 3: and you know, like the only time, the only the

3374
02:57:20,520 --> 02:57:25,560
Speaker 3: media literally only covers this stuff, like in terms of like, oh,

3375
02:57:25,600 --> 02:57:28,520
Speaker 3: it's costing a Democrats support and it's like, you guys,

3376
02:57:29,000 --> 02:57:31,480
Speaker 3: just I don't know the extense of which the media

3377
02:57:31,680 --> 02:57:36,520
Speaker 3: has been utterly and completely complicit in anti Palasinian racism

3378
02:57:36,640 --> 02:57:41,280
Speaker 3: has been appalling, and you know it's killed people now, yeah,

3379
02:57:41,320 --> 02:57:43,720
Speaker 3: and there will there will be no reckoning with this

3380
02:57:43,959 --> 02:57:46,440
Speaker 3: because the US media does this shit all the time

3381
02:57:46,480 --> 02:57:47,320
Speaker 3: and no one cares.

3382
02:57:48,040 --> 02:57:51,920
Speaker 2: And yeah, by by a wide margin. The most disturbing

3383
02:57:51,959 --> 02:57:54,879
Speaker 2: thing about this is just and I think what separates

3384
02:57:54,879 --> 02:57:56,959
Speaker 2: this from the two thousand and one stuff because this,

3385
02:57:56,959 --> 02:57:58,879
Speaker 2: this version of this attack in two thousand and one

3386
02:57:59,320 --> 02:58:02,600
Speaker 2: would have just been some racist stranger who saw, you know,

3387
02:58:02,680 --> 02:58:05,640
Speaker 2: a Muslim person or just a person he assumed look

3388
02:58:05,720 --> 02:58:08,039
Speaker 2: like they were Muslim and attacked but did not have

3389
02:58:08,080 --> 02:58:10,680
Speaker 2: a relationship with them. This guy is super close to

3390
02:58:10,720 --> 02:58:13,640
Speaker 2: this kid, right, This is like an example of how

3391
02:58:13,720 --> 02:58:19,560
Speaker 2: fairly integrated this community was. And it's the again an

3392
02:58:19,600 --> 02:58:21,800
Speaker 2: example kind of what we're seeing in most of these

3393
02:58:21,840 --> 02:58:23,920
Speaker 2: other attacks we've talked about, say of that nazi is

3394
02:58:24,000 --> 02:58:27,320
Speaker 2: like these people who are a lot more normal. And

3395
02:58:27,360 --> 02:58:30,520
Speaker 2: then I'm going to guess if we when we find

3396
02:58:30,520 --> 02:58:33,840
Speaker 2: out more about the dude who stabbed that kid, a

3397
02:58:33,879 --> 02:58:38,080
Speaker 2: lot of his drift happened after COVID, right. You know,

3398
02:58:38,280 --> 02:58:41,720
Speaker 2: it's a product of this right wing media ecosystem that

3399
02:58:41,800 --> 02:58:45,320
Speaker 2: again exists purely to do this sort of thing, but

3400
02:58:45,440 --> 02:58:49,400
Speaker 2: it's also a product of COVID. Right, it's a product

3401
02:58:49,440 --> 02:58:53,000
Speaker 2: of this lockdown that just fucking shattered so many people.

3402
02:58:53,720 --> 02:58:55,520
Speaker 12: It's the one other thing I will mention because it

3403
02:58:55,600 --> 02:58:58,959
Speaker 12: is relevant because the trial is starting. Is another extremely

3404
02:58:59,000 --> 02:59:00,640
Speaker 12: targeted attack with the.

3405
02:59:00,600 --> 02:59:02,440
Speaker 3: Murder of Brianna Jai.

3406
02:59:02,840 --> 02:59:07,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, the perpetrators were very familiar. They were they were

3407
02:59:08,200 --> 02:59:12,760
Speaker 12: interested in killing her specifically because Brianna was trans that.

3408
02:59:13,080 --> 02:59:14,520
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know if we talked about this

3409
02:59:14,760 --> 02:59:16,520
Speaker 3: on the show that I don't think we did.

3410
02:59:16,560 --> 02:59:17,959
Speaker 1: I don't think it happened.

3411
02:59:18,120 --> 02:59:21,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah no, But with with with the trial happening,

3412
02:59:21,080 --> 02:59:24,000
Speaker 12: we're we've gotten text exchanges between the two people who

3413
02:59:24,040 --> 02:59:30,400
Speaker 12: were involved in the killing, and it's it's very very

3414
02:59:30,520 --> 02:59:33,760
Speaker 12: very telling the way they were talking about Brianna like

3415
02:59:33,879 --> 02:59:38,680
Speaker 12: as this as this like object and very very very

3416
02:59:38,680 --> 02:59:43,240
Speaker 12: specifically like like almost like stalking and gaining familiar with her,

3417
02:59:43,560 --> 02:59:46,360
Speaker 12: specifically to kill her out of like fascination.

3418
02:59:47,240 --> 02:59:48,920
Speaker 3: Oh wait, So so for people who don't know what

3419
02:59:48,920 --> 02:59:53,959
Speaker 3: this is, Brianna was I think she was fifty sixteen sixteen,

3420
02:59:54,040 --> 02:59:56,480
Speaker 3: sixteen year old trans girl in the UK who was

3421
02:59:56,520 --> 03:00:01,039
Speaker 3: stabbed to death by two other kids. And yeah, so

3422
03:00:01,080 --> 03:00:05,120
Speaker 3: the trial's like happening right now and it's it's really

3423
03:00:05,680 --> 03:00:09,480
Speaker 3: really fucking sucks. Yeah she was, she was killed earlier

3424
03:00:09,480 --> 03:00:16,600
Speaker 3: this year. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, if you, if you,

3425
03:00:16,640 --> 03:00:22,279
Speaker 3: if you want to understand what transphobes think about trans people,

3426
03:00:22,879 --> 03:00:26,120
Speaker 3: like those texts are as clean as an example that

3427
03:00:26,160 --> 03:00:29,959
Speaker 3: you're going to get about how like all of the

3428
03:00:29,959 --> 03:00:32,160
Speaker 3: fucking right wing media people and all of the sort

3429
03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:34,640
Speaker 3: of like you know, like all of the most sort

3430
03:00:34,680 --> 03:00:41,680
Speaker 3: of like absolutely like committed transphobes think about transfer, But

3431
03:00:41,720 --> 03:00:44,879
Speaker 3: how they talk about us like in in closed like

3432
03:00:44,879 --> 03:00:46,840
Speaker 3: like behind closed doors where they think you will never

3433
03:00:46,879 --> 03:00:48,520
Speaker 3: see it. And this this is just this is just

3434
03:00:48,520 --> 03:00:50,720
Speaker 3: how they talk about us, and this is what happens

3435
03:00:50,800 --> 03:00:56,160
Speaker 3: is people like people fucking weirder trans people and yeah.

3436
03:00:57,280 --> 03:01:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well then yep, all right, well folks, this has

3437
03:01:02,879 --> 03:01:08,320
Speaker 2: been uh it could happen here? A podcast about terrorism?

3438
03:01:08,720 --> 03:01:12,120
Speaker 3: Goodbye? Do we do? We want to try to end

3439
03:01:12,160 --> 03:01:18,760
Speaker 3: in SETI literally any other way? I'm not sure you know.

3440
03:01:19,959 --> 03:01:21,480
Speaker 2: No, Garrison, We're not.

3441
03:01:21,720 --> 03:01:35,640
Speaker 11: That's the end of the podcast. Goodbye.

3442
03:01:39,040 --> 03:01:41,400
Speaker 3: Welcome to the could happen Here? A podcast with the

3443
03:01:41,440 --> 03:01:43,879
Speaker 3: It is Henry Kissinger, and the happening here is that

3444
03:01:43,920 --> 03:01:45,959
Speaker 3: he's dead as a door nail. I'm your host via

3445
03:01:46,040 --> 03:01:49,360
Speaker 3: log with me on this joyous day after Kissinger's dead.

3446
03:01:49,600 --> 03:01:52,760
Speaker 3: Is Garrison Davis and James Stout. Welcome to the show.

3447
03:01:53,560 --> 03:01:55,760
Speaker 3: Who Hello, very excited.

3448
03:01:55,920 --> 03:01:58,400
Speaker 12: Had had a fun night in the group chat last night.

3449
03:01:58,800 --> 03:02:02,080
Speaker 12: I did send over the Hordy Hendrika Singer copy pasta

3450
03:02:02,400 --> 03:02:05,560
Speaker 12: without reading it to two of the group chat, and

3451
03:02:05,959 --> 03:02:08,039
Speaker 12: I feel like that was that was a good call.

3452
03:02:08,480 --> 03:02:12,440
Speaker 3: Fully at the exit. Within within thirty seconds of you

3453
03:02:12,560 --> 03:02:14,880
Speaker 3: sending that, I got the same I got the same

3454
03:02:14,920 --> 03:02:18,440
Speaker 3: message in another group chat, and it was it.

3455
03:02:18,440 --> 03:02:21,080
Speaker 12: Was spreading around pretty quick. I wanted to jump on it.

3456
03:02:21,200 --> 03:02:23,560
Speaker 12: Soon before before other people were going to share it.

3457
03:02:23,640 --> 03:02:26,440
Speaker 12: So so yeah, that is that is, that is my duty.

3458
03:02:26,520 --> 03:02:30,000
Speaker 12: I mean it's it's certainly upsetting he lives till one hundred,

3459
03:02:30,040 --> 03:02:32,240
Speaker 12: but we will celebrate his death nevertheless.

3460
03:02:32,879 --> 03:02:36,160
Speaker 7: Yes, it would be nice if he died sooner.

3461
03:02:36,840 --> 03:02:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was nice. Well, we don't we don't

3462
03:02:38,560 --> 03:02:40,680
Speaker 3: know how he died. He could he could have died horribly.

3463
03:02:40,720 --> 03:02:44,760
Speaker 3: We actually don't know. Really, Yeah, he died anything.

3464
03:02:45,120 --> 03:02:49,920
Speaker 12: In his home in Connecticut, surrounded by his hopefully according

3465
03:02:49,959 --> 03:02:50,920
Speaker 12: to the actual statement.

3466
03:02:51,720 --> 03:02:51,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3467
03:02:52,040 --> 03:02:54,039
Speaker 7: Well, look, he he lived a little longer and died

3468
03:02:54,040 --> 03:02:55,480
Speaker 7: a lot more pleasantly than a lot of the people

3469
03:02:55,600 --> 03:02:57,040
Speaker 7: he was life he ended, which is sad.

3470
03:02:57,560 --> 03:02:57,879
Speaker 3: It is.

3471
03:02:57,920 --> 03:03:01,680
Speaker 12: It is sad, But it's also funny. He he died

3472
03:03:01,760 --> 03:03:03,600
Speaker 12: knowing he's probably one of the most hated men in

3473
03:03:03,640 --> 03:03:04,000
Speaker 12: the world.

3474
03:03:06,160 --> 03:03:09,200
Speaker 3: Pretty funny parties in the fucking street, like there was

3475
03:03:09,320 --> 03:03:12,440
Speaker 3: so there was there was a giant pro Palestine protest

3476
03:03:12,480 --> 03:03:16,920
Speaker 3: in Chicago last night and there's videos of them finding

3477
03:03:16,959 --> 03:03:19,800
Speaker 3: out live while they're in the streets that kissing, just dying,

3478
03:03:19,800 --> 03:03:23,800
Speaker 3: and this giant cheer goes up. People having a great time.

3479
03:03:25,160 --> 03:03:26,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was texting my friends who were down at

3480
03:03:26,879 --> 03:03:30,320
Speaker 7: the border. Uh, Camery Kissinger is dead. Spread the word

3481
03:03:31,920 --> 03:03:34,920
Speaker 7: among the people of the nations that he destroyed.

3482
03:03:35,160 --> 03:03:36,520
Speaker 3: Pretty good, pretty good stuff.

3483
03:03:36,959 --> 03:03:39,760
Speaker 12: I mean it's we we we all, we all had

3484
03:03:39,800 --> 03:03:41,800
Speaker 12: a fun time last night, as I'm sure many many

3485
03:03:41,840 --> 03:03:47,680
Speaker 12: of you listeners did. But slowly some organizations started to

3486
03:03:47,720 --> 03:03:50,000
Speaker 12: trickle out very embarrassing statements.

3487
03:03:50,200 --> 03:03:50,280
Speaker 11: Uh.

3488
03:03:51,040 --> 03:03:52,680
Speaker 12: The first one I saw was from the A d

3489
03:03:52,920 --> 03:03:57,240
Speaker 12: L who had a quite quite the quite quite the

3490
03:03:57,280 --> 03:04:00,400
Speaker 12: statement I'm gonna I want to find the I want

3491
03:04:00,400 --> 03:04:02,840
Speaker 12: to find it actually on on x, the new hot

3492
03:04:02,879 --> 03:04:08,480
Speaker 12: social media app, because it's because because the community note

3493
03:04:08,480 --> 03:04:10,080
Speaker 12: on it is just magnificent.

3494
03:04:10,480 --> 03:04:10,560
Speaker 3: Ye.

3495
03:04:11,840 --> 03:04:16,119
Speaker 12: Really really gives you a good look at the mind

3496
03:04:16,160 --> 03:04:18,880
Speaker 12: of Kissinger, and it's fun to laugh at the people

3497
03:04:18,879 --> 03:04:22,240
Speaker 12: who are like propping him up as some like great

3498
03:04:22,360 --> 03:04:23,200
Speaker 12: Jewish statesman.

3499
03:04:23,280 --> 03:04:23,920
Speaker 3: So yeah.

3500
03:04:23,959 --> 03:04:28,840
Speaker 12: Henry Kissinger was a towering intellect, diplomat and practitioner who,

3501
03:04:29,120 --> 03:04:32,840
Speaker 12: not without controversy, helped shape American foreign policy with a

3502
03:04:32,959 --> 03:04:36,720
Speaker 12: lasting impact worldwide. A refugee from Nazi Germany and the

3503
03:04:36,760 --> 03:04:40,360
Speaker 12: first Jewish Secretary of State, he was unapologetic about his

3504
03:04:40,480 --> 03:04:44,160
Speaker 12: heritage and his embrace of the importance of American global

3505
03:04:44,240 --> 03:04:48,880
Speaker 12: power and democratic values, which I like that they call

3506
03:04:48,959 --> 03:04:52,960
Speaker 12: him a practitioner. Just a funny thing to say.

3507
03:04:53,840 --> 03:04:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there are a number of in that post.

3508
03:04:58,000 --> 03:05:03,119
Speaker 12: Oh, absolutely problem. The funniest is that during a meeting

3509
03:05:03,360 --> 03:05:07,480
Speaker 12: of the Washington Special Actions Group, Kissinger said, quote, if

3510
03:05:07,560 --> 03:05:09,800
Speaker 12: it were not for the accident of my birth, I

3511
03:05:09,840 --> 03:05:13,680
Speaker 12: would be anti Semitic. Any people who have been persecuted

3512
03:05:13,680 --> 03:05:16,400
Speaker 12: for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.

3513
03:05:18,840 --> 03:05:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's here's here's another one. That one's fun It's

3514
03:05:23,080 --> 03:05:25,680
Speaker 3: another one. The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union

3515
03:05:25,720 --> 03:05:28,360
Speaker 3: is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if

3516
03:05:28,400 --> 03:05:30,960
Speaker 3: they put Jews in gas chambers in the Soviet Union,

3517
03:05:31,040 --> 03:05:34,800
Speaker 3: it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.

3518
03:05:35,760 --> 03:05:40,199
Speaker 12: And that was a realism, amazing stuff like it's it's

3519
03:05:40,320 --> 03:05:42,520
Speaker 12: it has. It has certainly been wild to watch any

3520
03:05:42,800 --> 03:05:45,520
Speaker 12: any shred of credibility that the ADL has had just

3521
03:05:45,640 --> 03:05:48,080
Speaker 12: absolutely go down the drain in the past two months

3522
03:05:48,080 --> 03:05:51,880
Speaker 12: by their own volition, just ruining decades of like of

3523
03:05:52,080 --> 03:05:56,879
Speaker 12: of research into anti Semitic extremism, by just tarnishing every

3524
03:05:56,879 --> 03:06:00,160
Speaker 12: single piece of research they've done, by how they've how

3525
03:06:00,160 --> 03:06:01,720
Speaker 12: they've been behaving the past two months.

3526
03:06:01,800 --> 03:06:05,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean they past three or four years, they've

3527
03:06:06,000 --> 03:06:07,440
Speaker 7: really been over like.

3528
03:06:09,360 --> 03:06:12,119
Speaker 3: To the bottom there. They're like they're like fully going

3529
03:06:12,160 --> 03:06:15,800
Speaker 3: back to their like selling information to a partid South

3530
03:06:15,840 --> 03:06:21,480
Speaker 3: Africa days. Yeah, so praising pim praising.

3531
03:06:22,680 --> 03:06:25,320
Speaker 12: Henry Kissinger is someone who admitted that he would be

3532
03:06:25,360 --> 03:06:27,560
Speaker 12: anti Semitic if he wasn't born Jewish.

3533
03:06:27,560 --> 03:06:30,240
Speaker 3: It was just like, what the fuck are you doing? Anyway?

3534
03:06:30,480 --> 03:06:32,440
Speaker 12: That was that was one of the first one of

3535
03:06:32,520 --> 03:06:36,440
Speaker 12: the first organizations to come out in in memoriam of

3536
03:06:36,680 --> 03:06:42,280
Speaker 12: mister Kissinger after after his his devastating passing last night.

3537
03:06:42,640 --> 03:06:45,640
Speaker 7: Sorry, I've I made a post about this ADL post

3538
03:06:45,959 --> 03:06:47,960
Speaker 7: and I'm just scoping the replies because there are a

3539
03:06:48,000 --> 03:06:51,240
Speaker 7: lot of normal people on on x dot com these days.

3540
03:06:52,600 --> 03:06:55,560
Speaker 7: Someone that there's a group which appears to exist to

3541
03:06:55,800 --> 03:06:59,160
Speaker 7: lobby for the ADL to lose its nonprofit status, and

3542
03:06:59,200 --> 03:07:00,760
Speaker 7: I'm just going to say that these are the people

3543
03:07:00,800 --> 03:07:03,520
Speaker 7: that a d L should be focusing their because this

3544
03:07:03,720 --> 03:07:07,200
Speaker 7: is this is the old school anti Semitism. That is

3545
03:07:07,200 --> 03:07:10,520
Speaker 7: a giant fucking problem and we all need to reject. Like,

3546
03:07:10,959 --> 03:07:13,520
Speaker 7: there is some hateful shit on x dot com and

3547
03:07:13,560 --> 03:07:15,240
Speaker 7: sadly it's in my replies.

3548
03:07:15,240 --> 03:07:17,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, there is there, there's plenty to go around, and

3549
03:07:18,320 --> 03:07:22,640
Speaker 12: the fact that they feel the need to defend water Kissinger.

3550
03:07:23,200 --> 03:07:25,320
Speaker 3: This guy's running for governor of Missouri.

3551
03:07:25,600 --> 03:07:27,880
Speaker 7: So yeah, just as a podcast, I think we can

3552
03:07:27,879 --> 03:07:30,720
Speaker 7: safely say, don't vote for Darryl McClanahan.

3553
03:07:31,160 --> 03:07:32,039
Speaker 3: Klan is in his.

3554
03:07:32,080 --> 03:07:37,080
Speaker 12: Name, this is our this is this is the here's

3555
03:07:37,120 --> 03:07:40,840
Speaker 12: first anti endorsement for the twenty twenty four election season.

3556
03:07:41,879 --> 03:07:45,959
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna say don't don't vote for

3557
03:07:46,000 --> 03:07:46,440
Speaker 7: this guy.

3558
03:07:47,640 --> 03:07:51,480
Speaker 12: So so true. Well, God, I'm glad. I'm glad we

3559
03:07:51,480 --> 03:07:55,360
Speaker 12: could all bond over over over that, as I bonded

3560
03:07:55,400 --> 03:07:59,160
Speaker 12: over the many, many funny, funny memes in the meme

3561
03:07:59,240 --> 03:08:03,480
Speaker 12: chats that I'm in rocketing on all scillas Twitter has

3562
03:08:03,520 --> 03:08:05,800
Speaker 12: been preparing for this night for years. We have been training,

3563
03:08:06,120 --> 03:08:08,680
Speaker 12: We've been training for so long. People have stayed on

3564
03:08:08,840 --> 03:08:13,400
Speaker 12: throughout Elon's catastrophe, just just for this night, and now

3565
03:08:13,440 --> 03:08:17,199
Speaker 12: are finally free. They could, yeah, finally be released into

3566
03:08:17,200 --> 03:08:18,279
Speaker 12: the pasture.

3567
03:08:19,320 --> 03:08:19,800
Speaker 3: Go live on.

3568
03:08:20,440 --> 03:08:25,280
Speaker 7: I'm surprised we didn't crash Twitter with yeah, hopefully his

3569
03:08:25,400 --> 03:08:27,400
Speaker 7: last words, well, I wonder what they'll post about me.

3570
03:08:28,400 --> 03:08:30,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sure he was thinking about posting when he

3571
03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:31,160
Speaker 12: was going out.

3572
03:08:31,200 --> 03:08:34,240
Speaker 3: That makes sense. He would have been a post hoping.

3573
03:08:34,360 --> 03:08:37,360
Speaker 3: It was like, oh no, it burns, Oh god, yes,

3574
03:08:40,680 --> 03:08:43,320
Speaker 3: Anthony bore Day with brass knuckles at the gates of Hell.

3575
03:08:45,959 --> 03:08:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So okay, all right, so what are we

3576
03:08:51,480 --> 03:08:53,120
Speaker 3: doing for the rest of this episode? So okay, If

3577
03:08:53,120 --> 03:08:55,560
Speaker 3: if you want to do an episode that is the

3578
03:08:55,720 --> 03:08:59,120
Speaker 3: entire history of the stuff Kissinger did. Robert did a

3579
03:08:59,280 --> 03:09:01,640
Speaker 3: six part Behind the Bastard episode on it. You can

3580
03:09:01,680 --> 03:09:05,560
Speaker 3: spend like twelve hours of your life doing learning.

3581
03:09:05,280 --> 03:09:10,280
Speaker 13: About having the worst time. Yeah, yeah, I always of

3582
03:09:10,320 --> 03:09:13,199
Speaker 13: a self help book. Is a self harm book audiobook

3583
03:09:13,200 --> 03:09:14,080
Speaker 13: that Rob has made for.

3584
03:09:14,040 --> 03:09:17,160
Speaker 12: You, Yes, but with three funny people giving commentaries.

3585
03:09:17,240 --> 03:09:23,080
Speaker 3: Yes, it's very funny. You should. Yeah. However, comma, so

3586
03:09:23,320 --> 03:09:25,480
Speaker 3: we have been talking about how I mean people are

3587
03:09:25,560 --> 03:09:29,160
Speaker 3: like people are partying in the streets in Cambodia, like there.

3588
03:09:29,480 --> 03:09:31,879
Speaker 3: Kissinger's death has been a source of celebration for almost

3589
03:09:31,920 --> 03:09:35,040
Speaker 3: everyone on Earth, but that is not what this episode

3590
03:09:35,080 --> 03:09:39,360
Speaker 3: is about. This episode is about the one country on

3591
03:09:39,400 --> 03:09:44,800
Speaker 3: Earth that isn't celebrating. That country is China and on

3592
03:09:44,920 --> 03:09:47,720
Speaker 3: the country. Not only is China not celebrating the death

3593
03:09:47,760 --> 03:09:52,160
Speaker 3: of Henry Kissinger China is quite possibly the most popular

3594
03:09:52,160 --> 03:09:55,080
Speaker 3: American in the history of China to this day. Like

3595
03:09:55,240 --> 03:09:59,039
Speaker 3: right now, if you went and pulled like the favorability

3596
03:09:59,120 --> 03:10:02,520
Speaker 3: rating of like every famous American, you can think of

3597
03:10:02,840 --> 03:10:05,240
Speaker 3: the person what the highest rating is almost certainly going

3598
03:10:05,240 --> 03:10:08,320
Speaker 3: to be Henry Kissinger. And you know, I mean, and

3599
03:10:08,360 --> 03:10:09,720
Speaker 3: this is this is and this is not just a

3600
03:10:09,800 --> 03:10:12,200
Speaker 3: sort of like a popular thing, although again he is

3601
03:10:12,320 --> 03:10:15,600
Speaker 3: enormously popular among ordinary Chinese people. This is a thing

3602
03:10:15,680 --> 03:10:19,320
Speaker 3: that goes from the state down. Xi Jinping, he's actually

3603
03:10:19,400 --> 03:10:21,760
Speaker 3: weirdly one of the last world leaders to talk to Kissinger.

3604
03:10:22,120 --> 03:10:26,840
Speaker 3: So Kissinger went to visit China in July, and him

3605
03:10:26,920 --> 03:10:30,440
Speaker 3: and Chijinping have this like great heartfelt reunion. They have

3606
03:10:30,480 --> 03:10:34,880
Speaker 3: a great time. Xijinping says quote. The Chinese people never

3607
03:10:34,920 --> 03:10:38,199
Speaker 3: forget their old friends, and Sino US relations will always

3608
03:10:38,240 --> 03:10:41,640
Speaker 3: be linked with the name of Henry Kissinger. In the

3609
03:10:41,640 --> 03:10:45,600
Speaker 3: wake of Kissinger's death, the Chinese government said, from Reuter's quote,

3610
03:10:46,360 --> 03:10:50,840
Speaker 3: Kissinger made historic contributions to the normalization of China US relations,

3611
03:10:51,320 --> 03:10:54,120
Speaker 3: and Chinese people will forever remember him for his quote

3612
03:10:54,160 --> 03:10:59,280
Speaker 3: sincere devotion and important contributions, Wang added, the Chinese Premier

3613
03:10:59,480 --> 03:11:02,480
Speaker 3: and the four Minister also sent messages of condolences to

3614
03:11:02,520 --> 03:11:08,200
Speaker 3: Kissinger's family and to Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln. So

3615
03:11:09,200 --> 03:11:14,240
Speaker 3: he is getting like he is getting as good a

3616
03:11:14,280 --> 03:11:18,840
Speaker 3: reception in China as any American has ever gotten. And

3617
03:11:19,160 --> 03:11:22,000
Speaker 3: if you if you can understand how this came to be,

3618
03:11:22,160 --> 03:11:25,640
Speaker 3: how like every other country in the region fucking hates

3619
03:11:25,720 --> 03:11:29,120
Speaker 3: Kissinger like everyone else despises him. And if you can

3620
03:11:29,200 --> 03:11:32,360
Speaker 3: understand why China, why he is like the most popular

3621
03:11:32,360 --> 03:11:35,920
Speaker 3: American in Chinese history, you can understand the entire arc

3622
03:11:35,959 --> 03:11:37,640
Speaker 3: of the twentieth century and how we ended up with

3623
03:11:37,680 --> 03:11:42,040
Speaker 3: the horror that we all live in today. But first,

3624
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:44,840
Speaker 3: speaking of the horrors that we all live in today,

3625
03:11:47,320 --> 03:11:49,720
Speaker 3: is breaking.

3626
03:11:50,640 --> 03:11:55,400
Speaker 7: Yeah hopefully one of our yeah, hopefully, Henry Kissing your

3627
03:11:55,400 --> 03:11:58,000
Speaker 7: collectible coins that they minted ten years ago and now

3628
03:11:58,040 --> 03:11:59,560
Speaker 7: been released to the market, and this will be the

3629
03:11:59,600 --> 03:12:02,040
Speaker 7: first of any adverts for them. They're only going to

3630
03:12:02,120 --> 03:12:07,760
Speaker 7: grown value, insulate yourself against inflation with these Hammery Kissinger coins.

3631
03:12:09,000 --> 03:12:13,120
Speaker 3: And we are back. So this story, the story of

3632
03:12:13,120 --> 03:12:15,640
Speaker 3: how Kissinger became the most popular man in China, or

3633
03:12:15,680 --> 03:12:19,680
Speaker 3: the most popular American in China, begins in Shanghai, nineteen

3634
03:12:19,720 --> 03:12:23,560
Speaker 3: twenty seven. Oh, it is the year nineteen twenty seven.

3635
03:12:23,640 --> 03:12:26,600
Speaker 3: For over a decade, China has been lost Inger Series

3636
03:12:26,800 --> 03:12:31,560
Speaker 3: C Wars. Kissing is seven four four years old.

3637
03:12:31,640 --> 03:12:33,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, four years old, child Kissinger.

3638
03:12:34,680 --> 03:12:41,080
Speaker 3: Child Kissinger is presumably unaware of the developments in China. Oh, oh,

3639
03:12:42,680 --> 03:12:47,880
Speaker 3: say that he was. He was keeping tabs absolutely at

3640
03:12:47,879 --> 03:12:50,760
Speaker 3: four years old. Yeah, he was. Even back then.

3641
03:12:50,800 --> 03:12:52,720
Speaker 7: He was a quote foreign policy realist.

3642
03:12:53,040 --> 03:12:58,959
Speaker 12: A towering intellect of this stature doesn't doesn't start his twenties.

3643
03:12:59,160 --> 03:13:01,680
Speaker 12: He starts like it his toddler years.

3644
03:13:02,680 --> 03:13:07,240
Speaker 7: Choice of words. By the way, towering intellect. Just looking

3645
03:13:07,320 --> 03:13:08,920
Speaker 7: at him, the pictures of him in China where he

3646
03:13:08,920 --> 03:13:11,840
Speaker 7: where he's dwarfed, and it's it's just very funny to

3647
03:13:11,840 --> 03:13:13,560
Speaker 7: look at this guy's grabbing, towering and it's like he's

3648
03:13:13,560 --> 03:13:14,760
Speaker 7: gonna be like five foot nothing.

3649
03:13:15,560 --> 03:13:19,080
Speaker 3: His intellect is towering, not his not his, not his person.

3650
03:13:19,400 --> 03:13:22,240
Speaker 7: Short King, short king, King, sure King would have been

3651
03:13:22,240 --> 03:13:24,640
Speaker 7: a great tweet if the ADELA called him a short king.

3652
03:13:25,080 --> 03:13:27,000
Speaker 7: I'm ironically I would have stand that.

3653
03:13:29,600 --> 03:13:34,120
Speaker 3: Yes, you were saying so, as as as as little

3654
03:13:34,200 --> 03:13:38,680
Speaker 3: tiny baby as Kissinger is looking on China's Communist Party

3655
03:13:38,720 --> 03:13:43,040
Speaker 3: is locked in a tenuous alliance with the Chinese Nationalist Party,

3656
03:13:43,080 --> 03:13:44,040
Speaker 3: which is the glooming Dong.

3657
03:13:45,040 --> 03:13:45,400
Speaker 1: No.

3658
03:13:45,959 --> 03:13:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they suck so with the aid of the Soviets.

3659
03:13:48,920 --> 03:13:50,280
Speaker 3: And when I say the aid of the Soviets, I

3660
03:13:50,280 --> 03:13:52,680
Speaker 3: mean the Soviets basically rebuilt the Nationalist Party from the

3661
03:13:52,720 --> 03:13:57,200
Speaker 3: ground up. Yeah, the Nationalists have turned into a juggernaut.

3662
03:13:57,280 --> 03:13:59,360
Speaker 3: They have, they are, they have swept aside like every

3663
03:13:59,360 --> 03:14:02,360
Speaker 3: world ord army. They face their marching triomphant across the country,

3664
03:14:02,959 --> 03:14:06,320
Speaker 3: and ahead of their advance, a massive uprising led by

3665
03:14:06,360 --> 03:14:10,040
Speaker 3: the communists finally drives the warlords out of Shanghai, and

3666
03:14:10,160 --> 03:14:14,160
Speaker 3: Chinese working class stands victorious. They and they alone stand

3667
03:14:14,240 --> 03:14:17,200
Speaker 3: triumphant over the greatest city in China. It is the

3668
03:14:17,280 --> 03:14:19,760
Speaker 3: last time they will control this city for forty years.

3669
03:14:21,000 --> 03:14:23,959
Speaker 3: The new leader of the Nationalist Party is Chang Kai Shek,

3670
03:14:23,959 --> 03:14:26,520
Speaker 3: a proto fascist drug lord who the Soviets, for some

3671
03:14:26,560 --> 03:14:29,600
Speaker 3: inexplicable reason, thought was going to work for them and

3672
03:14:29,800 --> 03:14:32,119
Speaker 3: was going to like build a socialist state at China.

3673
03:14:33,240 --> 03:14:36,840
Speaker 3: Deeply unclear why they thought this. I don't know. Don't

3674
03:14:36,879 --> 03:14:40,360
Speaker 3: have stalin running your foreign policy. I don't have.

3675
03:14:40,320 --> 03:14:45,119
Speaker 7: Started running shit like as a Yeah, yeah Christmas.

3676
03:14:46,400 --> 03:14:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so geez, he's no kissing jerk, Like what can

3677
03:14:49,280 --> 03:14:49,560
Speaker 3: we say?

3678
03:14:50,200 --> 03:14:52,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, also dead, though thankfully killed.

3679
03:14:52,400 --> 03:14:57,680
Speaker 3: Similar numbers of communists were get we are one sentence

3680
03:14:57,720 --> 03:15:00,960
Speaker 3: away from that. So, under the direction of Moscow, the

3681
03:15:00,959 --> 03:15:03,720
Speaker 3: communists in China convinced the Chinese working class to open

3682
03:15:03,760 --> 03:15:06,280
Speaker 3: the gates of the city to allow the nationalist army inside.

3683
03:15:06,560 --> 03:15:09,680
Speaker 3: The nationalist army immediately begins slaughtering the Chinese working class.

3684
03:15:09,760 --> 03:15:11,400
Speaker 3: By by the end of the white terror that this

3685
03:15:11,520 --> 03:15:14,199
Speaker 3: is going to unleash, the nationalists will have killed one

3686
03:15:14,360 --> 03:15:19,600
Speaker 3: million people, most of them Chinese workers and peasants. Basically

3687
03:15:20,160 --> 03:15:24,720
Speaker 3: like the entire you know, like like basically the entire

3688
03:15:24,840 --> 03:15:28,800
Speaker 3: urban Chinese left dies in this like like the the

3689
03:15:28,840 --> 03:15:32,320
Speaker 3: in this slaughter, and with them dies basically the entire

3690
03:15:32,360 --> 03:15:35,520
Speaker 3: internationalist wing of the Chinese Communist Party. Because the internationalist wing,

3691
03:15:35,560 --> 03:15:38,080
Speaker 3: the wing that had you know, very close connections to Moscow,

3692
03:15:38,240 --> 03:15:42,360
Speaker 3: were all like in Shanghai, and they were all but

3693
03:15:42,360 --> 03:15:44,920
Speaker 3: the most importantly not that they were all literally in Shanghai,

3694
03:15:44,959 --> 03:15:47,360
Speaker 3: but they were all part of the urban Communist Party

3695
03:15:47,680 --> 03:15:51,000
Speaker 3: and they get just completely wiped out. And this is

3696
03:15:51,040 --> 03:15:53,480
Speaker 3: the part of the Shanghai Rising. That for our purposes

3697
03:15:53,560 --> 03:15:57,000
Speaker 3: is important because it's the first moment where the rift

3698
03:15:57,040 --> 03:16:00,960
Speaker 3: between the Soviets and the Chinese Communist Party begins to form. Now,

3699
03:16:01,000 --> 03:16:03,879
Speaker 3: in the wake of the Shanghai massacre, Stalin sends the

3700
03:16:03,920 --> 03:16:07,080
Speaker 3: CCP instructions that are just nonsense, Like he's telling them

3701
03:16:07,080 --> 03:16:11,200
Speaker 3: to stay aligned with the Nationalist Party, but to oppose Shangkai.

3702
03:16:11,280 --> 03:16:16,240
Speaker 3: Shecheck like and literally there's descriptions of the meeting when

3703
03:16:16,280 --> 03:16:18,240
Speaker 3: like this this telegram comes in. The CCP leaders are

3704
03:16:18,240 --> 03:16:20,400
Speaker 3: like sitting around this I think it's a radio. They're

3705
03:16:20,400 --> 03:16:22,400
Speaker 3: sitting around this radio, and they get the they like

3706
03:16:22,440 --> 03:16:24,360
Speaker 3: they get the instructions, and they're just like these people

3707
03:16:24,400 --> 03:16:26,760
Speaker 3: are just burying their hands in their face because like

3708
03:16:27,040 --> 03:16:30,879
Speaker 3: this is nothing, it is nonsense, and you know, and

3709
03:16:30,959 --> 03:16:32,760
Speaker 3: this is sort of this is that's like the last

3710
03:16:32,840 --> 03:16:35,160
Speaker 3: gasp of the old Communist Party leadership. Those people are

3711
03:16:35,200 --> 03:16:39,160
Speaker 3: just gone, and in their place rises Mao. Now Mao

3712
03:16:39,400 --> 03:16:41,320
Speaker 3: is not from the urban wing of the party. He

3713
03:16:41,400 --> 03:16:44,000
Speaker 3: is from like Mao was a peasant organizer, right, He's

3714
03:16:44,000 --> 03:16:46,680
Speaker 3: from the whirl wing, and his wing of the party

3715
03:16:46,760 --> 03:16:49,600
Speaker 3: tends to be more nationalist and less sort of like

3716
03:16:50,080 --> 03:16:53,000
Speaker 3: subservient to Moscow. Than the urban wing of the party,

3717
03:16:53,840 --> 03:16:56,840
Speaker 3: and with Stalin basically getting the entire urban Communist Party

3718
03:16:56,959 --> 03:16:59,120
Speaker 3: and like every other urban leftist in the country killed,

3719
03:17:00,440 --> 03:17:02,520
Speaker 3: you know, the people that are left are MAO and

3720
03:17:02,520 --> 03:17:05,480
Speaker 3: the sort of peasant organizations who have a distrust of

3721
03:17:05,520 --> 03:17:08,119
Speaker 3: the Soviets that they're going to maintain for basically their

3722
03:17:08,240 --> 03:17:14,039
Speaker 3: entire lives. Now, obviously relations between the CCP and Stalin

3723
03:17:14,320 --> 03:17:19,160
Speaker 3: improve as like World War two happens, but there's a

3724
03:17:19,440 --> 03:17:21,320
Speaker 3: basically the moment the war ends, there's a series of

3725
03:17:21,360 --> 03:17:24,560
Speaker 3: incidents that sort of trained relations. One is that this

3726
03:17:24,600 --> 03:17:27,560
Speaker 3: is less an incident, but Stalin seems to not have

3727
03:17:27,720 --> 03:17:30,960
Speaker 3: thought that the CCP was gonna win the war, like

3728
03:17:31,000 --> 03:17:33,440
Speaker 3: he seems to have thought that the nationalists are going

3729
03:17:33,440 --> 03:17:37,080
Speaker 3: to beat them. And one of the things that he

3730
03:17:37,160 --> 03:17:42,040
Speaker 3: does is basically de industrializes Japan's giant industrial belt and

3731
03:17:42,040 --> 03:17:46,039
Speaker 3: occupied Manchuria. This is a completely intact industrial belt. It

3732
03:17:46,080 --> 03:17:48,360
Speaker 3: is one of the largest like intact industrial belts in

3733
03:17:48,400 --> 03:17:53,400
Speaker 3: the world, and Stalin, like in classic Soviet fashion, takes

3734
03:17:53,440 --> 03:17:56,280
Speaker 3: the factories, takes them apart, puts them on trains, and

3735
03:17:56,320 --> 03:17:59,680
Speaker 3: ships them across across the so sorry to rebuild this

3736
03:17:59,720 --> 03:18:01,400
Speaker 3: Ovia economy, yep.

3737
03:18:01,640 --> 03:18:04,599
Speaker 7: One of the first is many such incidents.

3738
03:18:05,160 --> 03:18:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is a catastrophe for the CCP because

3739
03:18:09,200 --> 03:18:12,160
Speaker 3: even after the CCP wins the war, because they've now

3740
03:18:12,320 --> 03:18:15,960
Speaker 3: you know, so it's like Shanghai is in ruins, Beijing,

3741
03:18:16,000 --> 03:18:18,560
Speaker 3: like most of China is just in ruins because of

3742
03:18:19,160 --> 03:18:21,600
Speaker 3: I mean, like, what year are they on if effectively

3743
03:18:21,600 --> 03:18:27,440
Speaker 3: continuous fighting and the after the war. China's industrial base

3744
03:18:27,800 --> 03:18:30,800
Speaker 3: in this is nineteen forty nine, right, Their industrial base

3745
03:18:30,959 --> 03:18:36,480
Speaker 3: is smaller than Russia's in nineteen seventeen, which is just nuts,

3746
03:18:36,520 --> 03:18:39,880
Speaker 3: it is and this is small, yeah, and this is

3747
03:18:39,920 --> 03:18:43,360
Speaker 3: the conditions that the everything, the entire course of twenty

3748
03:18:43,400 --> 03:18:47,120
Speaker 3: century Chinese history are defined by these conditions, right, And

3749
03:18:47,320 --> 03:18:52,959
Speaker 3: these specific conditions are this is basically a production bottleneck, right.

3750
03:18:53,000 --> 03:18:54,520
Speaker 3: And I've talked about this on the show before. This

3751
03:18:54,560 --> 03:18:55,680
Speaker 3: is one of the one of the sort of most

3752
03:18:55,680 --> 03:18:59,760
Speaker 3: important things in twentieth century Chinese like political economy, is

3753
03:18:59,760 --> 03:19:03,480
Speaker 3: that you know, the CCP is trying to simultaneously expand

3754
03:19:03,480 --> 03:19:06,400
Speaker 3: its agricultural production to feed people and also expand its

3755
03:19:06,440 --> 03:19:08,600
Speaker 3: industrial capacity. It's mostly trying to expand it to its

3756
03:19:08,600 --> 03:19:11,560
Speaker 3: industrial capacity. The problem is they can't expand their industrial

3757
03:19:11,560 --> 03:19:15,360
Speaker 3: capacity without expanding their agricultural capacity, and they can't expand

3758
03:19:15,360 --> 03:19:19,480
Speaker 3: their agricultural capacity without expanding their industrial capacity. And their

3759
03:19:19,480 --> 03:19:23,000
Speaker 3: attempt to just blow through this by like mass use

3760
03:19:23,040 --> 03:19:27,400
Speaker 3: of human labor is the great lead bored. It's complete catastrophe, right,

3761
03:19:27,800 --> 03:19:30,840
Speaker 3: this is just gonna fuck like whatever like intentions like

3762
03:19:30,879 --> 03:19:32,720
Speaker 3: the Chinese Revolution had, this is just going to fuck

3763
03:19:32,720 --> 03:19:35,080
Speaker 3: them because the combination of this and their ideology is

3764
03:19:35,120 --> 03:19:39,400
Speaker 3: just going to doom the entire project. And you know

3765
03:19:41,320 --> 03:19:45,000
Speaker 3: this and the other thing about this period, the Soviets

3766
03:19:45,000 --> 03:19:48,760
Speaker 3: are really really patronizing, like they talk about like constantly

3767
03:19:48,800 --> 03:19:51,640
Speaker 3: and like diplomatic things, like they talk about the Soviet

3768
03:19:51,800 --> 03:19:54,760
Speaker 3: like the Chinese is like their younger brothers. There's like

3769
03:19:54,760 --> 03:19:58,400
Speaker 3: this weird like thing going on. This isn't enough to

3770
03:19:58,400 --> 03:20:02,080
Speaker 3: substantially threaten their alliance, but the relationship between the USSR

3771
03:20:02,120 --> 03:20:06,000
Speaker 3: and China is never as it's never quite as firm

3772
03:20:06,040 --> 03:20:06,760
Speaker 3: as people.

3773
03:20:06,480 --> 03:20:07,000
Speaker 1: Think it is.

3774
03:20:08,680 --> 03:20:13,560
Speaker 3: Now. The thing that really like kickstarts the break between

3775
03:20:13,560 --> 03:20:16,960
Speaker 3: the USSR and China is Khrushev's secret speech denouncing Stalin.

3776
03:20:17,280 --> 03:20:19,880
Speaker 3: So this gets like leaked. Krushchev makes the speech where

3777
03:20:19,879 --> 03:20:22,640
Speaker 3: he was like wow, Stalin did some fucked up stuff

3778
03:20:22,879 --> 03:20:28,039
Speaker 3: they called the personality was bad, actually, and this pisss

3779
03:20:28,080 --> 03:20:32,600
Speaker 3: off an enormous number of people. Mau forever like problems

3780
03:20:32,680 --> 03:20:36,000
Speaker 3: malhas with Stalin. He takes a very hard line on this,

3781
03:20:36,000 --> 03:20:38,920
Speaker 3: where he's like, no, I'm like, the Soviets are now revisionists,

3782
03:20:38,920 --> 03:20:41,119
Speaker 3: they have abandoned the path of Marcs Leninism. I am

3783
03:20:41,200 --> 03:20:45,240
Speaker 3: now the only anti revisionist in the world. And you know,

3784
03:20:45,280 --> 03:20:47,680
Speaker 3: and this whole thing like results in these worstening relations

3785
03:20:47,720 --> 03:20:50,320
Speaker 3: between China and the Soviet Union, with the CCP basically

3786
03:20:50,400 --> 03:20:54,520
Speaker 3: calling the Soviets like weak neck bureaucratic social imperialists and

3787
03:20:54,640 --> 03:20:57,680
Speaker 3: the Soviets looking at like the great leap forward and

3788
03:20:57,720 --> 03:21:02,200
Speaker 3: being like, what are these maniacs doing? And this tension

3789
03:21:02,320 --> 03:21:06,160
Speaker 3: escalates to the sixtieses both sides start massing troops on

3790
03:21:06,280 --> 03:21:10,600
Speaker 3: the Chinese Soviet border. Now meanwhile, so so okay, the

3791
03:21:10,840 --> 03:21:11,800
Speaker 3: sixties goes.

3792
03:21:11,600 --> 03:21:13,000
Speaker 4: On, and.

3793
03:21:14,640 --> 03:21:18,119
Speaker 3: Control of the Soviet Union has fallen to Leoned Breshnev,

3794
03:21:18,200 --> 03:21:22,320
Speaker 3: who is an absolute maniac, deeply weird, deeply not very

3795
03:21:22,320 --> 03:21:26,640
Speaker 3: good guy, and he in response to the Council Communist

3796
03:21:26,760 --> 03:21:29,280
Speaker 3: uprising in Prague in nineteen sixty eight, Breshnev rolls tanks

3797
03:21:29,280 --> 03:21:32,760
Speaker 3: in kills everyone, and then declares the Breshnev Doctrine, in

3798
03:21:32,760 --> 03:21:36,359
Speaker 3: which Breshnev claims the right to overthrow any socialist government

3799
03:21:36,400 --> 03:21:39,200
Speaker 3: who the Soviets decided we're trying to become capitalists, which

3800
03:21:39,320 --> 03:21:41,200
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the Soviet's right like that that

3801
03:21:41,360 --> 03:21:44,039
Speaker 3: what that actually means is that they don't align with USSR.

3802
03:21:44,560 --> 03:21:49,440
Speaker 3: So Breshnev means this to be about Eastern Europe, right.

3803
03:21:50,160 --> 03:21:52,920
Speaker 3: MAO looks at this and goes, oh shit, Breshnev is

3804
03:21:52,920 --> 03:21:57,320
Speaker 3: going to try to overthrow be and this does not

3805
03:21:57,400 --> 03:22:00,280
Speaker 3: go well. So and you know, I know the looking

3806
03:22:00,280 --> 03:22:01,920
Speaker 3: at it, he's looking at like the Soviet troops massing

3807
03:22:01,920 --> 03:22:06,240
Speaker 3: on the border, and he's like, oh shit. And this

3808
03:22:06,280 --> 03:22:09,720
Speaker 3: is where things get absolutely wild. In nineteen sixty nine,

3809
03:22:09,760 --> 03:22:14,039
Speaker 3: there are a giant series of border skirmishes between this

3810
03:22:14,240 --> 03:22:16,800
Speaker 3: between Soviet and Chinese troops. People are killing each other

3811
03:22:16,879 --> 03:22:21,680
Speaker 3: across this enormous this is like continent sized border. People

3812
03:22:21,720 --> 03:22:26,000
Speaker 3: are like like like like companies of Chinese and Soviet

3813
03:22:26,000 --> 03:22:29,160
Speaker 3: troops are like firing artillery at each other. Everyone is

3814
03:22:29,200 --> 03:22:32,400
Speaker 3: completely losing their minds. And this is actually like one

3815
03:22:32,400 --> 03:22:34,920
Speaker 3: of the reasons why, Like every once in a while

3816
03:22:34,920 --> 03:22:38,680
Speaker 3: you'll get these things from the Himalayas and China's border

3817
03:22:38,680 --> 03:22:41,800
Speaker 3: with India, where everyone's like hitting each other with sticks,

3818
03:22:41,920 --> 03:22:44,280
Speaker 3: and the reason you're hitting each other with sticks is that,

3819
03:22:44,600 --> 03:22:48,080
Speaker 3: like the Chinese were like, wait, hold on, it's actually

3820
03:22:48,120 --> 03:22:49,880
Speaker 3: a bad idea to have guys with guns on the

3821
03:22:49,920 --> 03:22:52,040
Speaker 3: border of a nuclear power. Yeah.

3822
03:22:52,120 --> 03:22:55,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, they have some amazing, amazing browls.

3823
03:22:56,600 --> 03:22:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, but like and the funny thing

3824
03:22:58,800 --> 03:23:01,800
Speaker 3: like that, that's the reasonable version of this. In sixty nine,

3825
03:23:01,840 --> 03:23:05,080
Speaker 3: they're having the unreasonable version of this, where the Soviets

3826
03:23:05,080 --> 03:23:07,440
Speaker 3: are looking at the situation and they're going, oh shit,

3827
03:23:07,560 --> 03:23:10,959
Speaker 3: we can't win a war with China because their calculation

3828
03:23:11,080 --> 03:23:13,520
Speaker 3: is that they will eventually be overwhelmed by a combination

3829
03:23:13,600 --> 03:23:15,280
Speaker 3: of human wave attacks and the fact that like an

3830
03:23:15,400 --> 03:23:17,960
Speaker 3: enormous portion of the China is the Chinese population has

3831
03:23:18,000 --> 03:23:20,520
Speaker 3: been trained in guerrilla warfare. And their second problem is

3832
03:23:20,560 --> 03:23:22,720
Speaker 3: that the Chinese population is to disperse for them to

3833
03:23:22,720 --> 03:23:25,840
Speaker 3: all be killed by a Soviet nuclear weapons. And the

3834
03:23:25,879 --> 03:23:28,200
Speaker 3: CCP makes the same assessment and it's like, Okay, if

3835
03:23:28,240 --> 03:23:30,160
Speaker 3: we fight this war, like the human wave attacks are

3836
03:23:30,160 --> 03:23:31,879
Speaker 3: just going to eventually are going to crush them. We're

3837
03:23:31,879 --> 03:23:33,600
Speaker 3: going to use force numbers that can't kill us all

3838
03:23:33,600 --> 03:23:36,600
Speaker 3: with nukes. So the Soviets plan for this is they

3839
03:23:36,640 --> 03:23:39,240
Speaker 3: are like drawing up plans to line the border with

3840
03:23:39,360 --> 03:23:44,920
Speaker 3: China with nuclear land mines to stop the chese. It's nuts.

3841
03:23:44,959 --> 03:23:51,200
Speaker 3: Everyone is losing their minds normal times. Yeah, Like I've

3842
03:23:51,240 --> 03:23:54,039
Speaker 3: seen rumors. This is the thing I don't have actually

3843
03:23:54,160 --> 03:23:57,040
Speaker 3: good sources on. I've seen a lot of rumors that

3844
03:23:57,160 --> 03:24:01,400
Speaker 3: both both the Soviets and China like reached out to

3845
03:24:01,480 --> 03:24:03,560
Speaker 3: the US try to get them the nuke. The other side,

3846
03:24:05,280 --> 03:24:11,280
Speaker 3: it's everyone is everyone is completely losing their minds. And

3847
03:24:12,560 --> 03:24:19,119
Speaker 3: you know, so at this point, like both sides kind

3848
03:24:19,120 --> 03:24:22,560
Speaker 3: of back down because both of them realize that, like

3849
03:24:22,840 --> 03:24:26,200
Speaker 3: fighting this war is the stupidest thing that anything could

3850
03:24:26,240 --> 03:24:29,800
Speaker 3: possibly do, because there's there's like there is there was

3851
03:24:29,840 --> 03:24:32,560
Speaker 3: a little tiny shred of sanity left in both sides.

3852
03:24:32,600 --> 03:24:35,280
Speaker 3: That's like, do we like actually what to have a

3853
03:24:35,360 --> 03:24:39,160
Speaker 3: nuclear war? And they're like no, okay, but this marks

3854
03:24:39,160 --> 03:24:41,960
Speaker 3: the permanent solidification of what's called the Sino Soviet split.

3855
03:24:43,959 --> 03:24:45,760
Speaker 3: And do you know what else is it is? It

3856
03:24:45,800 --> 03:24:49,320
Speaker 3: is a Sino Soviet split. It's the split between the

3857
03:24:49,320 --> 03:24:51,039
Speaker 3: part of the episode that's ads and the part of

3858
03:24:51,040 --> 03:24:52,600
Speaker 3: the episode that's episode.

3859
03:24:53,480 --> 03:24:55,800
Speaker 12: That is a very important split that does relate to

3860
03:24:55,879 --> 03:24:59,280
Speaker 12: the worker councils of the Soviet state, as if the

3861
03:24:59,320 --> 03:25:02,400
Speaker 12: Soviets got their wish for world domination, we wouldn't be

3862
03:25:02,400 --> 03:25:05,960
Speaker 12: pivoting to an AD break instead, this would be purely

3863
03:25:06,120 --> 03:25:07,039
Speaker 12: workers sponsored.

3864
03:25:07,080 --> 03:25:08,240
Speaker 3: I don't know, here's the.

3865
03:25:08,200 --> 03:25:13,040
Speaker 12: App all right, I for one, am very excited to

3866
03:25:13,080 --> 03:25:18,480
Speaker 12: get those Coininger limited edition NFT collectibles. I think it's

3867
03:25:18,520 --> 03:25:21,280
Speaker 12: a real solid investment. So I know it sounds a

3868
03:25:21,280 --> 03:25:23,680
Speaker 12: little far fetched, but hey, in ten years, you can

3869
03:25:23,720 --> 03:25:25,800
Speaker 12: sell it to some guy from the CCP and.

3870
03:25:26,120 --> 03:25:29,760
Speaker 3: You might make a lot of money. So yeah, food

3871
03:25:29,800 --> 03:25:30,640
Speaker 3: for thought or the ad.

3872
03:25:30,879 --> 03:25:33,600
Speaker 12: That's right, that's right. You can sell it to Pit Cabbage.

3873
03:25:33,879 --> 03:25:38,040
Speaker 12: He could buy that for like ten grand. All if

3874
03:25:38,080 --> 03:25:41,320
Speaker 12: you spend one thousand dollars and in ten years you

3875
03:25:41,320 --> 03:25:43,160
Speaker 12: could be getting ten grand from pit Cabbage.

3876
03:25:43,240 --> 03:25:44,840
Speaker 3: And that sounds like that sounds like a great deal.

3877
03:25:45,200 --> 03:25:46,959
Speaker 7: That's a that's a ten percent discount as well with

3878
03:25:47,040 --> 03:25:57,400
Speaker 7: the discount code. Garrison Davis. Sorry miss back in script.

3879
03:26:00,600 --> 03:26:03,960
Speaker 3: So the back in nineteen sixty nine basically from from

3880
03:26:04,000 --> 03:26:07,720
Speaker 3: from yeah, yeah, so it basically from this point on,

3881
03:26:07,800 --> 03:26:10,680
Speaker 3: the USSR and the People's Republic of China are enemies.

3882
03:26:10,680 --> 03:26:13,320
Speaker 3: This is what's called the Sino Soviet split. And Mao

3883
03:26:13,400 --> 03:26:17,400
Speaker 3: begins casting around for allies, and into this breach steps

3884
03:26:17,400 --> 03:26:24,560
Speaker 3: a man accursed through history. Who's who's towering footfalls echo

3885
03:26:25,600 --> 03:26:28,200
Speaker 3: through the halls of power. I am talking, of course,

3886
03:26:28,240 --> 03:26:35,640
Speaker 3: about Charles de Gaulle. Yeah, most Frenchman two exists. Yeah,

3887
03:26:35,920 --> 03:26:39,520
Speaker 3: so Degall has been devising a strategy to pull China

3888
03:26:39,640 --> 03:26:41,720
Speaker 3: away from the USSR and towards the West. And this

3889
03:26:41,800 --> 03:26:44,960
Speaker 3: is the origin of what's called Triangle diplomacy. Now Kissinger

3890
03:26:45,080 --> 03:26:49,000
Speaker 3: steals this idea and goes and does it. But this

3891
03:26:49,240 --> 03:26:52,240
Speaker 3: was not Kissinger's idea. This was this was a plan

3892
03:26:52,560 --> 03:26:54,760
Speaker 3: that was already kind of in motion that he stole

3893
03:26:54,800 --> 03:26:55,600
Speaker 3: from the Gaull.

3894
03:26:57,240 --> 03:27:01,039
Speaker 12: Good artists copy great artists, steal Kissinger was anything.

3895
03:27:01,440 --> 03:27:03,400
Speaker 3: It wasn't artist great artists.

3896
03:27:05,160 --> 03:27:08,560
Speaker 7: What the Tony Blair Foundation said, It's not as Joe

3897
03:27:09,120 --> 03:27:12,480
Speaker 7: God fucking make jokes because everything's too fucked.

3898
03:27:13,400 --> 03:27:16,480
Speaker 3: I'm quoting the Tony Blair Foundation. That was it. There was,

3899
03:27:16,480 --> 03:27:19,360
Speaker 3: there was, there was there was some oh god, I

3900
03:27:19,360 --> 03:27:22,400
Speaker 3: can't remember his name. So someone in the seventies declared

3901
03:27:22,400 --> 03:27:24,960
Speaker 3: that satire the day, the day that Henry Kissinger won

3902
03:27:24,959 --> 03:27:27,000
Speaker 3: the Nobel Peace Prize the day Satire died. And he

3903
03:27:27,120 --> 03:27:29,280
Speaker 3: was right. And this is why satire doesn't work any work.

3904
03:27:29,640 --> 03:27:32,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, Tony Blair is now pissing on its grave.

3905
03:27:33,480 --> 03:27:40,119
Speaker 3: A yeah, so all right, but the you know, okay, So,

3906
03:27:40,120 --> 03:27:44,080
Speaker 3: so this triangle diplomacy thing, Kissinger basically takes it over.

3907
03:27:44,200 --> 03:27:48,480
Speaker 3: And the key element of this plan is is to

3908
03:27:48,560 --> 03:27:51,200
Speaker 3: use China as a bulwark against the Soviets, both in

3909
03:27:51,440 --> 03:27:53,920
Speaker 3: East and Southeast Asia and in places like Central Africa.

3910
03:27:55,240 --> 03:27:57,119
Speaker 3: But in order to do this they have to actually

3911
03:27:57,360 --> 03:28:00,960
Speaker 3: like establish contact with China, a thing they haven't had

3912
03:28:01,080 --> 03:28:05,320
Speaker 3: in like thirty years. Wow, I guess twenty. Ah whatever,

3913
03:28:05,400 --> 03:28:07,200
Speaker 3: Hey complicated. I'm not going to go through the entire

3914
03:28:07,200 --> 03:28:10,560
Speaker 3: diplomatic history of China, but you know, if you and

3915
03:28:10,959 --> 03:28:15,200
Speaker 3: this is the origin of one of Kissinger's most famous crimes,

3916
03:28:15,480 --> 03:28:19,119
Speaker 3: which is Operation search Light, which is Pakistan's genocide and Bangladesh.

3917
03:28:19,200 --> 03:28:22,360
Speaker 3: They kill about three million people. If you want to

3918
03:28:22,400 --> 03:28:24,320
Speaker 3: really detailed account of this, go listen to the Behind

3919
03:28:24,360 --> 03:28:27,640
Speaker 3: the Basses episodes. The short version of this is that

3920
03:28:27,760 --> 03:28:30,240
Speaker 3: Pakistan has been a Chinese ally for a while for

3921
03:28:30,440 --> 03:28:33,360
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons, one of which is China's antagonism

3922
03:28:33,440 --> 03:28:37,240
Speaker 3: with India, which peaked in nineteen sixty two when China

3923
03:28:37,600 --> 03:28:41,720
Speaker 3: just straight up invaded and he'speeded border region, conquered it

3924
03:28:41,840 --> 03:28:44,600
Speaker 3: and then like handed Nehru his ass in the process

3925
03:28:44,720 --> 03:28:47,680
Speaker 3: of what became known as a Sino Indian War. And

3926
03:28:47,840 --> 03:28:50,760
Speaker 3: this is an incredible betrayal, by the way, like Neihru,

3927
03:28:50,800 --> 03:28:55,240
Speaker 3: who was the Prime Minister of India, Nehru had turned

3928
03:28:55,360 --> 03:28:59,320
Speaker 3: down a permanent seat on the UN Security Council because

3929
03:28:59,480 --> 03:29:01,080
Speaker 3: because he was being given the seat as a way

3930
03:29:01,120 --> 03:29:03,360
Speaker 3: to make sure China didn't get it, and he turned it.

3931
03:29:03,520 --> 03:29:06,440
Speaker 3: He turned down that seat to get China onto the

3932
03:29:06,480 --> 03:29:10,440
Speaker 3: Security Council like out of out of like, not out

3933
03:29:10,440 --> 03:29:14,320
Speaker 3: of geopolitical like. This was basically a pure like ideological

3934
03:29:14,360 --> 03:29:16,160
Speaker 3: I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do thing,

3935
03:29:16,480 --> 03:29:22,800
Speaker 3: and Mao returns him by fucking invading India. So because

3936
03:29:22,840 --> 03:29:25,160
Speaker 3: of this and because of like you know, India Pakistan

3937
03:29:25,240 --> 03:29:28,720
Speaker 3: don't like each other. This is this is known. The

3938
03:29:28,760 --> 03:29:32,160
Speaker 3: Pakistani government is very close to China. Pakistani troops are

3939
03:29:32,200 --> 03:29:34,400
Speaker 3: trained by the Chinese army. They are armed with Chinese

3940
03:29:34,440 --> 03:29:37,440
Speaker 3: weapons and with Kissinger's blessings, so he could use the

3941
03:29:37,480 --> 03:29:40,680
Speaker 3: Pakistani government as an intermediary to negotiate with China. The

3942
03:29:40,720 --> 03:29:43,800
Speaker 3: Pakistani government seeds to kill three million Bangladeshis.

3943
03:29:45,120 --> 03:29:45,360
Speaker 4: It is.

3944
03:29:46,240 --> 03:29:48,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is. It is among the worst crimes of

3945
03:29:48,640 --> 03:29:52,600
Speaker 3: the twentieth century. It's a crime that it is broadly forgotten.

3946
03:29:52,920 --> 03:29:56,240
Speaker 3: China's complicity in it is forgotten. The American's complicity in

3947
03:29:56,280 --> 03:29:59,800
Speaker 3: it is barely remembered, basically only when people talk about Kissinger.

3948
03:30:00,640 --> 03:30:03,200
Speaker 3: But this was one of the worst things that happened

3949
03:30:03,240 --> 03:30:05,280
Speaker 3: in like one of the worst centuries in human history.

3950
03:30:06,480 --> 03:30:08,760
Speaker 3: But you know, for Kissinger, this is an enormous success, right,

3951
03:30:08,800 --> 03:30:10,160
Speaker 3: He gets everything that he fucking wants out of it.

3952
03:30:10,160 --> 03:30:12,680
Speaker 3: He doesn't give a shit about Bangwadeshis. Then you know,

3953
03:30:12,879 --> 03:30:15,600
Speaker 3: this is a tradition that has like echoed through the

3954
03:30:15,959 --> 03:30:17,879
Speaker 3: like the e ods of the liberals have ever since

3955
03:30:18,520 --> 03:30:21,600
Speaker 3: the US successfully opens diplomatic channels with China. And soon

3956
03:30:21,720 --> 03:30:24,720
Speaker 3: Kissinger and Nixon are going to meet Mao in China,

3957
03:30:25,120 --> 03:30:28,080
Speaker 3: And I'm going to read from Mao talking to Kissinger

3958
03:30:28,240 --> 03:30:32,360
Speaker 3: so you can understand who these people are. The tree

3959
03:30:32,440 --> 03:30:34,920
Speaker 3: between our two countries at present is very pitiful, is

3960
03:30:35,040 --> 03:30:37,760
Speaker 3: gradually increasing. You know, China is a poor country. We

3961
03:30:37,840 --> 03:30:42,560
Speaker 3: don't have very much. What we have in excess is women, Kissinger.

3962
03:30:42,680 --> 03:30:46,600
Speaker 3: There are no quotas or terrible for those, Chairman Mao,

3963
03:30:47,480 --> 03:30:49,880
Speaker 3: So if you want so, if you want them, we

3964
03:30:49,920 --> 03:30:52,360
Speaker 3: can give you a few of those, some tens of thousands,

3965
03:30:53,120 --> 03:30:56,800
Speaker 3: Prime Minister show of course, on a voluntary basis. Chairman Mao,

3966
03:30:57,080 --> 03:30:59,360
Speaker 3: let them go to your place. They will create disasters.

3967
03:30:59,400 --> 03:31:04,040
Speaker 3: That way you can lesson our burdens. Laughter. Sometime later, Mao,

3968
03:31:04,320 --> 03:31:06,200
Speaker 3: do you want our Chinese women, We can give you

3969
03:31:06,320 --> 03:31:13,959
Speaker 3: ten million laughter. Jesus, the Chairman is improving his offer bow.

3970
03:31:14,440 --> 03:31:16,840
Speaker 3: By doing this, we can let them flood your country

3971
03:31:16,879 --> 03:31:20,039
Speaker 3: with disaster and therefore impair your interest in our country.

3972
03:31:20,120 --> 03:31:21,680
Speaker 3: We have too many women, and they have a way

3973
03:31:21,720 --> 03:31:23,840
Speaker 3: of doing things. They give birth the children, and our

3974
03:31:23,920 --> 03:31:28,720
Speaker 3: children are too many. I mean, this is like a

3975
03:31:28,879 --> 03:31:34,200
Speaker 3: deeply CCP moment, like, yeah, this is like this is

3976
03:31:34,240 --> 03:31:36,400
Speaker 3: one of these stings. Was like there are people in

3977
03:31:36,520 --> 03:31:40,359
Speaker 3: the United States to this day who call themselves Maoists

3978
03:31:40,760 --> 03:31:43,560
Speaker 3: and like and think that this guy was like on

3979
03:31:43,720 --> 03:31:47,119
Speaker 3: the fucking left, and it's like, how do you fucking

3980
03:31:47,240 --> 03:31:49,560
Speaker 3: read that? Like him, just him just doing this fucking

3981
03:31:49,640 --> 03:31:53,160
Speaker 3: banter with the Butcher of Bangladesh and be like no, no, no,

3982
03:31:53,440 --> 03:31:55,280
Speaker 3: this is the guy who figured out to keep the

3983
03:31:56,080 --> 03:31:58,440
Speaker 3: key to achieving like socialism, right, he is the guy

3984
03:31:58,480 --> 03:32:00,959
Speaker 3: you figured ou how to end the class system, end imperialism.

3985
03:32:01,400 --> 03:32:04,760
Speaker 3: Is this fucking guy poling it up with fucking Henry

3986
03:32:04,879 --> 03:32:11,840
Speaker 3: fucking Kissinger, Like it's terrible, Like I just yeah, it's not.

3987
03:32:12,440 --> 03:32:15,080
Speaker 7: I meant the king to being a mauist is not

3988
03:32:15,280 --> 03:32:17,520
Speaker 7: reading this though true.

3989
03:32:19,320 --> 03:32:22,880
Speaker 3: I've seen maoists on Twitter trying to defend this. They're like, well,

3990
03:32:23,360 --> 03:32:25,560
Speaker 3: it was only like a temporary thing because the Soviets

3991
03:32:25,600 --> 03:32:28,200
Speaker 3: were threatening the New China and like, you know, and

3992
03:32:28,320 --> 03:32:29,920
Speaker 3: I'm one of the things that one of the real

3993
03:32:29,959 --> 03:32:32,040
Speaker 3: problems they have is that so in Angola, there's a

3994
03:32:32,080 --> 03:32:35,040
Speaker 3: civil war in Angola. There is a a faction that

3995
03:32:35,200 --> 03:32:37,280
Speaker 3: are the good guys, and then there's a faction that's

3996
03:32:37,280 --> 03:32:41,600
Speaker 3: being backed by apartheid South Africa and backing the apartheid

3997
03:32:41,680 --> 03:32:46,880
Speaker 3: South Africa fashion. Yeah, so you know, and this is

3998
03:32:46,920 --> 03:32:49,760
Speaker 3: the thing they have to justify and they can't. And

3999
03:32:49,840 --> 03:32:51,480
Speaker 3: this actually and you know, one of this actually has

4000
03:32:51,560 --> 03:32:55,880
Speaker 3: impacts in the US because like American maoists are confronted

4001
03:32:55,959 --> 03:32:58,119
Speaker 3: with this and are like what the fuck.

4002
03:32:58,680 --> 03:32:59,720
Speaker 7: Like what is this?

4003
03:33:00,520 --> 03:33:02,400
Speaker 3: And there are some of them who just like ignore

4004
03:33:02,480 --> 03:33:04,400
Speaker 3: it and quadruple down. There are some of it who

4005
03:33:04,440 --> 03:33:05,400
Speaker 3: become disillusioned.

4006
03:33:06,160 --> 03:33:08,640
Speaker 7: You could even pick a different tanky, like like Cuba

4007
03:33:08,720 --> 03:33:10,600
Speaker 7: heavily supported the m p l A and I go,

4008
03:33:10,879 --> 03:33:13,119
Speaker 7: for instance, like yeah, at.

4009
03:33:13,120 --> 03:33:16,560
Speaker 3: Least and just like yeah, moved to like Castro or something.

4010
03:33:16,600 --> 03:33:16,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

4011
03:33:17,800 --> 03:33:21,400
Speaker 7: Trotsky's right there, He's right there with an ice pick

4012
03:33:21,440 --> 03:33:21,840
Speaker 7: in his head.

4013
03:33:22,240 --> 03:33:23,240
Speaker 3: So true.

4014
03:33:25,040 --> 03:33:30,680
Speaker 13: Should have happened to Kissinger a fucking incredible alternate history

4015
03:33:35,440 --> 03:33:37,959
Speaker 13: lives and Kissinger dies lives.

4016
03:33:37,760 --> 03:33:38,360
Speaker 3: To one hundred.

4017
03:33:39,120 --> 03:33:42,800
Speaker 12: The world is so much it's the world's are like

4018
03:33:42,959 --> 03:33:45,280
Speaker 12: a great place, but it is a much better place

4019
03:33:45,480 --> 03:33:46,640
Speaker 12: in that alternate history.

4020
03:33:47,640 --> 03:33:50,600
Speaker 3: Can you imagine if Trotsky had held on long enough

4021
03:33:50,640 --> 03:33:53,080
Speaker 3: for social media to exist? You know, oh my god,

4022
03:33:56,400 --> 03:33:59,160
Speaker 3: it's him and the one the person I've been most

4023
03:33:59,160 --> 03:34:01,360
Speaker 3: sad right now than never gone on there was Goredal.

4024
03:34:02,040 --> 03:34:05,640
Speaker 3: He would have been killed it he would Yeah.

4025
03:34:05,760 --> 03:34:07,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a few people you just think would have

4026
03:34:07,920 --> 03:34:08,720
Speaker 7: been magnificent.

4027
03:34:10,120 --> 03:34:12,600
Speaker 3: Vodal has a famous a Kissinger moment where he's he's

4028
03:34:12,640 --> 03:34:15,680
Speaker 3: he's watching he runs into a Kissinger like in the

4029
03:34:15,760 --> 03:34:18,680
Speaker 3: Sistine Chapel, like looking at the part that's like looking

4030
03:34:18,720 --> 03:34:22,280
Speaker 3: at the hell part of it. Vidal goes, Kissinger is

4031
03:34:22,280 --> 03:34:23,119
Speaker 3: apartment hunting.

4032
03:34:24,440 --> 03:34:31,880
Speaker 13: Very funny, very yeah, yeah, yeah, that is brains.

4033
03:34:31,920 --> 03:34:33,880
Speaker 3: So many of these. There's there another famous one where

4034
03:34:33,920 --> 03:34:40,160
Speaker 3: the the absolutely dog Ship American author Norman Baylor punches

4035
03:34:40,240 --> 03:34:42,080
Speaker 3: him and he's like falls over because he's got punched.

4036
03:34:42,120 --> 03:34:46,000
Speaker 3: While he's on the ground, Vandal goes, words failed Norman

4037
03:34:46,080 --> 03:34:56,560
Speaker 3: Baylor again. Yeah, really incredible guy, real time posting. We

4038
03:34:57,040 --> 03:35:00,120
Speaker 3: see it. Yeah, tragic, tragic had never made it it.

4039
03:35:00,640 --> 03:35:04,280
Speaker 3: Lots of tragedies unfolding. One of them is that you know,

4040
03:35:05,000 --> 03:35:09,880
Speaker 3: this whole thing of like like kissingered bantering with Mao

4041
03:35:10,120 --> 03:35:13,080
Speaker 3: like this it works like the US and China established

4042
03:35:13,080 --> 03:35:17,080
Speaker 3: mathomatic relations. And this is a this is a seismic

4043
03:35:17,280 --> 03:35:21,560
Speaker 3: shift in sort of Chinese popular culture and media and

4044
03:35:21,640 --> 03:35:27,160
Speaker 3: consciousness because from the Korean War until like the seventies, right,

4045
03:35:27,240 --> 03:35:30,480
Speaker 3: the way people think about America and the way they're

4046
03:35:30,520 --> 03:35:34,840
Speaker 3: portrayed in Chinese media is like as the great imperialist enemy, right,

4047
03:35:34,920 --> 03:35:37,480
Speaker 3: like the last time there was contact between the US

4048
03:35:37,560 --> 03:35:40,200
Speaker 3: and China. It is a bunch of Chinese troops doing

4049
03:35:40,280 --> 03:35:44,360
Speaker 3: bayonet charges, like wearing sandals in the fucking snow, doing

4050
03:35:44,480 --> 03:35:47,520
Speaker 3: bayonet chargers through their own artillery barages to kill American

4051
03:35:47,560 --> 03:35:50,720
Speaker 3: troops like that. That is like like the amount of

4052
03:35:50,800 --> 03:35:55,640
Speaker 3: hatred like there is is unbelievable. And you know, it's

4053
03:35:55,640 --> 03:35:58,080
Speaker 3: funny because like the US like really forgot that war,

4054
03:35:58,440 --> 03:36:06,720
Speaker 3: but like China did not, right, and suddenly like America

4055
03:36:06,840 --> 03:36:12,519
Speaker 3: is China's friend. And the human face of this absolutely

4056
03:36:12,879 --> 03:36:18,480
Speaker 3: Parkle shift in basically the entire ideological system of Chinese communism.

4057
03:36:18,720 --> 03:36:22,240
Speaker 3: The face of this shift in in the just the

4058
03:36:22,360 --> 03:36:25,320
Speaker 3: image of what America is, which is like it doesn't

4059
03:36:25,400 --> 03:36:27,640
Speaker 3: it's not quite mapping on, but it's like like America,

4060
03:36:28,000 --> 03:36:30,960
Speaker 3: like it's it's kind of like how Baptists think about

4061
03:36:31,000 --> 03:36:33,480
Speaker 3: the devil, right like that that that is the role

4062
03:36:33,520 --> 03:36:36,200
Speaker 3: that America has in Chinese like popular sort of culture

4063
03:36:36,600 --> 03:36:38,760
Speaker 3: like up until this point, and then suddenly it's completely

4064
03:36:38,760 --> 03:36:40,959
Speaker 3: pivot on its head. And the face of this shift

4065
03:36:41,000 --> 03:36:44,280
Speaker 3: is Kissinger. And you know and this, uh, this is

4066
03:36:44,400 --> 03:36:48,400
Speaker 3: pingpong Eurasia is what you're doing right now? This yeah,

4067
03:36:48,520 --> 03:36:50,920
Speaker 3: happened to this all happened due to table tennis, and

4068
03:36:51,000 --> 03:36:54,320
Speaker 3: I won't hear any other way. Oh god, I was

4069
03:36:55,160 --> 03:36:58,200
Speaker 3: I specifically did it include that the table tennis diplomacy

4070
03:36:58,280 --> 03:37:00,879
Speaker 3: at this because I was like, I hate the ship, but.

4071
03:37:01,080 --> 03:37:05,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, liberals really get on that ship. They talk about

4072
03:37:06,160 --> 03:37:09,680
Speaker 7: I think Joseph was a big diplomacy guy.

4073
03:37:09,840 --> 03:37:12,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like, you know, but I I think,

4074
03:37:12,560 --> 03:37:15,959
Speaker 3: like thing on diplomacy is an example of like how

4075
03:37:16,160 --> 03:37:18,560
Speaker 3: circumscribed the contact between the U to the US and

4076
03:37:18,640 --> 03:37:20,520
Speaker 3: China is right, Like again, like we're talking about like

4077
03:37:21,080 --> 03:37:24,000
Speaker 3: like ping pong teams playing each other. This is like

4078
03:37:24,200 --> 03:37:27,520
Speaker 3: the big diplomatic and cultural exchanges going on between China

4079
03:37:27,520 --> 03:37:31,280
Speaker 3: and the US. There's nothing. And this is something that

4080
03:37:31,440 --> 03:37:33,120
Speaker 3: you have to sort of understand if you want to

4081
03:37:33,200 --> 03:37:37,520
Speaker 3: understand this pivot is how isolated China was. Right Like

4082
03:37:37,920 --> 03:37:40,600
Speaker 3: the US through this entire period is pretending that the

4083
03:37:40,680 --> 03:37:43,320
Speaker 3: nationalists in Taiwan or the legitimate government of all of China,

4084
03:37:43,879 --> 03:37:48,280
Speaker 3: they have blocked off effectively all trade with China. They've

4085
03:37:48,280 --> 03:37:50,280
Speaker 3: blocked off basically all trade from the US. They've blocked

4086
03:37:50,320 --> 03:37:53,800
Speaker 3: off a huge amount of international trade and and you know,

4087
03:37:53,879 --> 03:37:56,520
Speaker 3: and this this this is something that really really cripples

4088
03:37:56,560 --> 03:38:00,560
Speaker 3: the Chinese economy. Like you know, you can't quite blame

4089
03:38:00,640 --> 03:38:04,560
Speaker 3: it for like the famines because like I mean, for example,

4090
03:38:04,560 --> 03:38:06,920
Speaker 3: like the CCP was exporting grain to the USSR while

4091
03:38:07,000 --> 03:38:09,720
Speaker 3: greatly before what was happening, right like, but I mean,

4092
03:38:09,800 --> 03:38:14,000
Speaker 3: it didn't fucking help that. And one of the the

4093
03:38:14,240 --> 03:38:16,800
Speaker 3: other big consequence of this is that it is almost

4094
03:38:16,840 --> 03:38:19,800
Speaker 3: impossible for Chinese people to go to China. Like you

4095
03:38:20,040 --> 03:38:22,360
Speaker 3: you basically can't do it. And this is an enormous

4096
03:38:22,400 --> 03:38:25,440
Speaker 3: deal because there are tens of millions of Chinese people

4097
03:38:25,440 --> 03:38:27,720
Speaker 3: across the world who can't go back to China. These

4098
03:38:27,720 --> 03:38:29,800
Speaker 3: people can't see their families, they can't see their friends,

4099
03:38:30,200 --> 03:38:32,120
Speaker 3: they can't go to the graves of their ancestors, they

4100
03:38:32,160 --> 03:38:35,200
Speaker 3: can't they can't go home. And this happened with my family,

4101
03:38:35,320 --> 03:38:38,280
Speaker 3: Like my grandpa didn't see his brothers and sisters for

4102
03:38:38,560 --> 03:38:44,200
Speaker 3: forty years after the war. Forty years just did not

4103
03:38:44,320 --> 03:38:48,879
Speaker 3: see his family. And you know, and it's only when

4104
03:38:48,959 --> 03:38:50,440
Speaker 3: Kissinger and that this is the way that it's seen

4105
03:38:50,480 --> 03:38:53,320
Speaker 3: in China. It's only when Kissinger re establishes relations, which

4106
03:38:53,400 --> 03:38:56,400
Speaker 3: Kissinger goes out there and advocates and The way they

4107
03:38:56,480 --> 03:38:58,640
Speaker 3: see it is he's advocating for China in the US,

4108
03:38:58,879 --> 03:39:01,640
Speaker 3: which is kind of true. But the way they see

4109
03:39:01,680 --> 03:39:05,879
Speaker 3: this is only when Kissinger reestablishes diplomatic relations, that's when

4110
03:39:05,920 --> 03:39:07,920
Speaker 3: it becomes possible for you to see your family again.

4111
03:39:09,200 --> 03:39:11,959
Speaker 3: And you know, like I cannot emphasize enough how big

4112
03:39:12,000 --> 03:39:14,240
Speaker 3: of a deal this is in China in the diaspora, Like,

4113
03:39:14,320 --> 03:39:17,320
Speaker 3: if you are in the diaspora, you can't get fucking

4114
03:39:17,360 --> 03:39:19,960
Speaker 3: messages in you Like a lot of people don't know

4115
03:39:20,040 --> 03:39:22,280
Speaker 3: whether their family is still alive because the last time

4116
03:39:22,360 --> 03:39:25,440
Speaker 3: they saw them was the war or and when I

4117
03:39:25,480 --> 03:39:27,200
Speaker 3: say though war, like that could be World War two,

4118
03:39:27,240 --> 03:39:29,160
Speaker 3: that could be the Revolution, that could be people liking

4119
03:39:29,480 --> 03:39:32,640
Speaker 3: before that. And you know, this is a huge deal

4120
03:39:32,680 --> 03:39:34,720
Speaker 3: in the diaspora too, to the point where like a

4121
03:39:34,800 --> 03:39:36,840
Speaker 3: lot of the people who had been like in the

4122
03:39:36,920 --> 03:39:39,600
Speaker 3: in the Asian American movements in sixty eight, like people

4123
03:39:39,600 --> 03:39:41,920
Speaker 3: who had been like Yellow Peril, Yellow Power, people who

4124
03:39:41,920 --> 03:39:44,199
Speaker 3: are like ally with the Black Panthers, Like these people

4125
03:39:44,280 --> 03:39:47,119
Speaker 3: are trying to get jobs in the Nixon State departments

4126
03:39:47,240 --> 03:39:49,880
Speaker 3: because they want to be there to like help reopen

4127
03:39:49,920 --> 03:39:54,400
Speaker 3: diplomatic relations with China. It is it is like, this

4128
03:39:54,560 --> 03:39:56,199
Speaker 3: is like it is one of the sort of apocaum

4129
03:39:56,320 --> 03:39:59,480
Speaker 3: moments of the second half of the twentieth century. Is

4130
03:40:00,200 --> 03:40:03,840
Speaker 3: this this these diplomatic relations opening up again. And in

4131
03:40:03,920 --> 03:40:08,000
Speaker 3: the Chinese media, they don't really want Nixon to be

4132
03:40:08,040 --> 03:40:14,160
Speaker 3: the face of it because now there's this is not great.

4133
03:40:15,840 --> 03:40:18,400
Speaker 3: But so they they put they put Kissinger as like

4134
03:40:18,480 --> 03:40:23,200
Speaker 3: the human face of all of this, and you know,

4135
03:40:23,320 --> 03:40:25,320
Speaker 3: and and there's there's and there's a lot of benefits

4136
03:40:25,400 --> 03:40:28,959
Speaker 3: of China from this. They're getting these massive technological transfers

4137
03:40:29,560 --> 03:40:31,240
Speaker 3: from the US, and this is one of the things

4138
03:40:31,280 --> 03:40:33,160
Speaker 3: that it's in I think it's a very underrated factor,

4139
03:40:33,200 --> 03:40:34,800
Speaker 3: but this is one of the factors that makes their

4140
03:40:34,959 --> 03:40:38,280
Speaker 3: their technology. Like sorry, let me say that again. This

4141
03:40:38,440 --> 03:40:40,920
Speaker 3: is one of the factors that makes it's one of

4142
03:40:40,959 --> 03:40:44,440
Speaker 3: the incredibly underrated factors that makes their industrialization program work.

4143
03:40:44,440 --> 03:40:46,920
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of places where people try similar

4144
03:40:46,959 --> 03:40:49,280
Speaker 3: industrialization programs to what China is going to pull off,

4145
03:40:49,360 --> 03:40:52,840
Speaker 3: Like Venezuela, for example, tries this, and Venezuela's program completely

4146
03:40:52,879 --> 03:40:55,000
Speaker 3: fails because they don't have access to the technology that

4147
03:40:55,080 --> 03:40:58,560
Speaker 3: the US got from basically sucking up or that China

4148
03:40:58,600 --> 03:41:01,720
Speaker 3: got from sucking up to the US, and Kissinger is

4149
03:41:01,800 --> 03:41:03,760
Speaker 3: directly responsible for a lot of like a lot of

4150
03:41:03,840 --> 03:41:07,680
Speaker 3: these technology transfers, and for this, Kissinger is labeled as

4151
03:41:07,879 --> 03:41:10,040
Speaker 3: as like as a friend of the Chinese people like this,

4152
03:41:10,200 --> 03:41:11,840
Speaker 3: This is literally the way that it's talked about in

4153
03:41:12,040 --> 03:41:15,960
Speaker 3: the Chinese media, and even sort of beyond just him

4154
03:41:16,000 --> 03:41:18,040
Speaker 3: being labeled like a friend of the Chinese people, like

4155
03:41:18,320 --> 03:41:22,600
Speaker 3: he is like Okay, so there's like one or two

4156
03:41:22,840 --> 03:41:26,280
Speaker 3: other Americans who you can sort of like publicly express

4157
03:41:26,360 --> 03:41:29,200
Speaker 3: admiration for. Who are people who like effectively defected the

4158
03:41:29,280 --> 03:41:31,080
Speaker 3: China or just move to China and like we're there

4159
03:41:31,120 --> 03:41:35,320
Speaker 3: for the revolution. But those aren't like major figures, right,

4160
03:41:35,560 --> 03:41:38,160
Speaker 3: Like they're like communist journalists or stuff like that, or

4161
03:41:38,320 --> 03:41:41,960
Speaker 3: like anthropologists, like they're not. This is the first like

4162
03:41:42,120 --> 03:41:44,760
Speaker 3: actual public American figure that you were allowed and you

4163
03:41:44,800 --> 03:41:47,320
Speaker 3: are encouraged to be like yay, this guy fucking rules.

4164
03:41:48,720 --> 03:41:50,880
Speaker 3: And in a very short amount of time, Kissinger becomes

4165
03:41:51,800 --> 03:41:54,440
Speaker 3: enormously popular as the man who you know, he's the

4166
03:41:54,440 --> 03:41:57,480
Speaker 3: guy who restored Chinese American relations. He's the guy who

4167
03:41:57,560 --> 03:41:59,600
Speaker 3: allowed all these people to see to see their families

4168
03:41:59,640 --> 03:42:01,680
Speaker 3: and the saytion to terror regime I mean he doesn't

4169
03:42:02,120 --> 03:42:05,040
Speaker 3: actually end them, but he's helping people work around them,

4170
03:42:05,080 --> 03:42:09,720
Speaker 3: and the sanctions eventually sort of come down. But you know,

4171
03:42:10,280 --> 03:42:13,560
Speaker 3: all of this comes with the price. And this brings

4172
03:42:13,680 --> 03:42:17,000
Speaker 3: us to another Kissinger crime, which is a Kissinger in

4173
03:42:17,040 --> 03:42:21,560
Speaker 3: the coup against Chile's democratically elected president Salvadur Ayende. So

4174
03:42:21,760 --> 03:42:25,120
Speaker 3: this coup is fully green lit by the US, like

4175
03:42:25,280 --> 03:42:28,000
Speaker 3: Kissinger is involved with it. Pinochet is going to murder

4176
03:42:28,000 --> 03:42:29,880
Speaker 3: forty thousand Chilans. We talked about this on the show

4177
03:42:29,920 --> 03:42:33,039
Speaker 3: a few times before, but what we haven't really talked

4178
03:42:33,040 --> 03:42:36,440
Speaker 3: about much is that after this, after the coup, Chile

4179
03:42:36,600 --> 03:42:38,840
Speaker 3: is like completely diplomatically isolated. No one wants anything to

4180
03:42:38,879 --> 03:42:43,199
Speaker 3: do with them because this just like maybe like absolute maniac,

4181
03:42:43,280 --> 03:42:46,880
Speaker 3: massive murderer has just deposed like a sovereign government. Like

4182
03:42:46,959 --> 03:42:50,000
Speaker 3: even like the even the UK like won't like refuses

4183
03:42:50,040 --> 03:42:52,280
Speaker 3: to like talk to them, right like like and when

4184
03:42:52,360 --> 03:42:55,200
Speaker 3: when like the Brits won't talk to you because you've

4185
03:42:55,240 --> 03:42:56,240
Speaker 3: done too many crimes?

4186
03:42:57,080 --> 03:43:00,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, you've really fucked it there, like the guys

4187
03:43:00,440 --> 03:43:04,000
Speaker 7: who who's prime Minister's son living doing coups?

4188
03:43:05,080 --> 03:43:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there is one country other than the US

4189
03:43:09,320 --> 03:43:11,400
Speaker 3: that will do that, will that will like do that,

4190
03:43:11,440 --> 03:43:14,720
Speaker 3: will make deals with Pinochet. And that country is China,

4191
03:43:15,640 --> 03:43:20,120
Speaker 3: and China funny funnels millions of dollars like to some

4192
03:43:20,440 --> 03:43:23,120
Speaker 3: literally to Pinochet directly and to the Chilean government. And

4193
03:43:23,160 --> 03:43:25,240
Speaker 3: this is a time where China is not rich, but

4194
03:43:25,360 --> 03:43:28,680
Speaker 3: and this is millions of dollars like in in like

4195
03:43:28,800 --> 03:43:31,520
Speaker 3: nineteen seventies money. It's it's a lot of money. And

4196
03:43:31,920 --> 03:43:34,440
Speaker 3: and China is absolutely broke, and they're fucking sending it

4197
03:43:34,560 --> 03:43:38,240
Speaker 3: to and they're they're sending it to fucking Pinochet, and

4198
03:43:38,400 --> 03:43:40,680
Speaker 3: like and and like to get a sense of how

4199
03:43:40,840 --> 03:43:43,959
Speaker 3: weird this stuff is in China, right, Like a lot

4200
03:43:44,000 --> 03:43:46,520
Speaker 3: of people in China think that Pinochet is a socialist

4201
03:43:47,320 --> 03:43:49,840
Speaker 3: because he's being portrayed positively in the Chinese media, so

4202
03:43:49,879 --> 03:43:51,880
Speaker 3: they assume that he's a socialist. Like this is the

4203
03:43:51,959 --> 03:43:54,280
Speaker 3: kind of shit that's like just the absolute brain worms

4204
03:43:54,320 --> 03:43:57,000
Speaker 3: that are happening in China at this point, because they're

4205
03:43:57,040 --> 03:44:00,640
Speaker 3: their connection to the outside world is really really tenuous,

4206
03:44:00,640 --> 03:44:03,960
Speaker 3: and the Chinese media is suddenly gassing up all of

4207
03:44:04,080 --> 03:44:11,880
Speaker 3: these just like horrific right wing dictators. Now, as as

4208
03:44:12,000 --> 03:44:14,959
Speaker 3: Kissinger Star sends in China, the CCP begins pulling its

4209
03:44:15,000 --> 03:44:18,480
Speaker 3: own kissingers. So this is this is a this is

4210
03:44:18,920 --> 03:44:22,359
Speaker 3: a kind of a story we only learned about pretty recently,

4211
03:44:22,560 --> 03:44:25,040
Speaker 3: I think in like the last two years. Being Japing

4212
03:44:25,240 --> 03:44:28,280
Speaker 3: was the first like Chinese communist leader to visit the US.

4213
03:44:28,400 --> 03:44:31,240
Speaker 3: And so he got he's in Washington, DC, and he

4214
03:44:32,040 --> 03:44:34,199
Speaker 3: takes time out of his schedule to have a secret

4215
03:44:34,320 --> 03:44:36,879
Speaker 3: meeting with the CIA where he goes to the CIA

4216
03:44:37,040 --> 03:44:40,200
Speaker 3: office to set up like list to set up CIA

4217
03:44:40,320 --> 03:44:42,680
Speaker 3: listening posts in China to spy on the USSR.

4218
03:44:44,959 --> 03:44:46,720
Speaker 1: And one of the.

4219
03:44:46,720 --> 03:44:49,160
Speaker 3: Products of this, you know, so that that's that's the

4220
03:44:49,240 --> 03:44:51,400
Speaker 3: sort of low level stuff that Chine is getting involved with.

4221
03:44:51,440 --> 03:44:53,640
Speaker 3: The high level stuff is in nineteen seventy nine, China

4222
03:44:53,640 --> 03:44:55,920
Speaker 3: invades Vietnam. They killed tens of thousands of people, They

4223
03:44:55,959 --> 03:45:01,920
Speaker 3: devastate both the Chinese and music economy. And this is

4224
03:45:02,080 --> 03:45:04,600
Speaker 3: one of the things that you know, this is a

4225
03:45:04,680 --> 03:45:08,480
Speaker 3: decisive thing in the Cold War, Right, China has like

4226
03:45:09,840 --> 03:45:14,200
Speaker 3: Donna Kissinger, They've invaded fucking they've invaded Vietnam. Yeah, and

4227
03:45:14,320 --> 03:45:15,840
Speaker 3: you know, and one of the one of the sort

4228
03:45:15,840 --> 03:45:18,120
Speaker 3: of modern iterations of this right has been you know,

4229
03:45:18,200 --> 03:45:20,880
Speaker 3: there's there's a long period of sort of like China's

4230
03:45:20,879 --> 03:45:23,240
Speaker 3: alignment with the US. And one of the other things

4231
03:45:23,280 --> 03:45:27,600
Speaker 3: that happens that China like becomes increasingly tied to Israel.

4232
03:45:28,520 --> 03:45:30,400
Speaker 3: And this is one of the things that that's like

4233
03:45:30,480 --> 03:45:32,400
Speaker 3: true of China to this day is like there are

4234
03:45:32,480 --> 03:45:34,960
Speaker 3: a bunch of surveillance cameras in the West Bank that

4235
03:45:35,040 --> 03:45:38,080
Speaker 3: are that are that the Israelis used to surveil Palestinians

4236
03:45:38,120 --> 03:45:41,120
Speaker 3: that are built in China, right the same the same

4237
03:45:41,160 --> 03:45:44,440
Speaker 3: cameras that are being used in shing Jan. A lot

4238
03:45:44,520 --> 03:45:48,520
Speaker 3: of like Chinese h what's it called. It was like

4239
03:45:48,720 --> 03:45:52,240
Speaker 3: Chinese police sometimes special forces units like trained with Israeli

4240
03:45:52,680 --> 03:45:56,120
Speaker 3: like trainers. There's a lot of like they do like

4241
03:45:56,280 --> 03:45:58,880
Speaker 3: cow like quote unquote kunter terrorism exchanges and and the

4242
03:45:58,959 --> 03:46:01,840
Speaker 3: other big aspect of this is that a huge part

4243
03:46:01,840 --> 03:46:04,120
Speaker 3: of the Israeli tech industry and a huge part of

4244
03:46:06,760 --> 03:46:10,039
Speaker 3: their sort of like defense complex is fueled directly by

4245
03:46:10,080 --> 03:46:13,560
Speaker 3: both Chinese resources and by Chinese raw materials, and also

4246
03:46:13,640 --> 03:46:17,600
Speaker 3: by things like transistors that they're importing from China. And

4247
03:46:18,080 --> 03:46:21,280
Speaker 3: this is the product of the sort of long arc

4248
03:46:21,480 --> 03:46:24,280
Speaker 3: of Kissinger's work in China and Kissinger's work sort of

4249
03:46:24,360 --> 03:46:29,920
Speaker 3: peeling off Egypt from the Palestinian like Soviet camp. And

4250
03:46:30,320 --> 03:46:34,800
Speaker 3: this ultimately is the price of opening relations with the US.

4251
03:46:34,879 --> 03:46:38,959
Speaker 3: It's not a price that's paid by the Chinese ruling class. Instead,

4252
03:46:39,120 --> 03:46:41,879
Speaker 3: what happens is that every dissident in China, every fucking

4253
03:46:42,000 --> 03:46:44,440
Speaker 3: child in Cambodia, every teenager in these Teamwar and every

4254
03:46:44,520 --> 03:46:48,760
Speaker 3: veteran in Vietnam, Mao sells them the fuck out, staying

4255
03:46:48,800 --> 03:46:51,120
Speaker 3: Shaw Ping sells them out, ku Chaital sells them out,

4256
03:46:51,240 --> 03:46:53,960
Speaker 3: Xijinping sells them out. They take American money, they take

4257
03:46:54,000 --> 03:46:56,480
Speaker 3: American technology, They shake hands with Kissinger, and they let

4258
03:46:56,560 --> 03:47:00,280
Speaker 3: Bangladesh burn. And for this, Kissinger would remain astead fast

4259
03:47:00,320 --> 03:47:02,920
Speaker 3: ally at the Chinese capitalist classes entire life. When the

4260
03:47:03,000 --> 03:47:05,560
Speaker 3: CCP butchered the last gas of the Chinese working class

4261
03:47:05,560 --> 03:47:09,920
Speaker 3: at Tienemen, Kissinger stood by the CCP and basically is

4262
03:47:10,000 --> 03:47:12,400
Speaker 3: one of the few Americans straight out doing pr for them.

4263
03:47:13,600 --> 03:47:15,360
Speaker 3: He does it again when China's tried to enter the

4264
03:47:15,400 --> 03:47:18,160
Speaker 3: World Trade Organization. He like, this is the last thing

4265
03:47:18,200 --> 03:47:20,840
Speaker 3: he was doing before he fucking died, was going it

4266
03:47:20,959 --> 03:47:23,480
Speaker 3: was going to China and allying himself for the Chinese

4267
03:47:23,560 --> 03:47:26,160
Speaker 3: ruling class. And you know he meets Chijien Ping and

4268
03:47:26,240 --> 03:47:29,320
Speaker 3: is greeted as an old friend. And this is how

4269
03:47:29,440 --> 03:47:32,320
Speaker 3: you get to the thing that's been happening today, which

4270
03:47:32,440 --> 03:47:36,640
Speaker 3: is like all of these Chinese, like the Chinese Foreign Ministry,

4271
03:47:36,920 --> 03:47:39,280
Speaker 3: and a bunch of time making Chinese government officials like

4272
03:47:39,920 --> 03:47:42,320
Speaker 3: releasing these statements about how doctor Kissinger is a good

4273
03:47:42,360 --> 03:47:47,240
Speaker 3: friend of the Chinese people. And this ultimately is what

4274
03:47:47,360 --> 03:47:50,440
Speaker 3: Kissinger represents, the prospect of the alliance between the American

4275
03:47:50,520 --> 03:47:52,720
Speaker 3: and Chinese capitalist class built on the blood of the

4276
03:47:52,760 --> 03:47:56,640
Speaker 3: working class of five continents. It is a world in

4277
03:47:56,680 --> 03:47:58,960
Speaker 3: which there is peace and prosperity for the bourgeoisie, where

4278
03:47:58,959 --> 03:48:03,120
Speaker 3: there was starvation and death for everyone else. This still,

4279
03:48:03,280 --> 03:48:05,360
Speaker 3: to this day is the regime that rules the US,

4280
03:48:05,440 --> 03:48:07,320
Speaker 3: it is the regime that rules China. And they are

4281
03:48:07,400 --> 03:48:10,560
Speaker 3: being united for one final time in their love of

4282
03:48:10,680 --> 03:48:16,280
Speaker 3: one Henry Kissinger. And yeah, that's basically all I've got.

4283
03:48:16,400 --> 03:48:18,440
Speaker 3: I guess the last thing I can say is one

4284
03:48:18,480 --> 03:48:20,400
Speaker 3: of the things that I think I hope people will

4285
03:48:20,480 --> 03:48:26,200
Speaker 3: understand about this is that the way that the American

4286
03:48:27,320 --> 03:48:30,800
Speaker 3: left thinks about China, like the way that it the

4287
03:48:30,879 --> 03:48:34,400
Speaker 3: way that it's politics function, are completely illegible in China, like,

4288
03:48:34,480 --> 03:48:36,800
Speaker 3: there are no like in the US. It is very

4289
03:48:36,840 --> 03:48:40,920
Speaker 3: common to have someone who is like pro Palestine, who

4290
03:48:41,080 --> 03:48:46,000
Speaker 3: is like socialist, who is like pro LGBTQ like rights,

4291
03:48:46,840 --> 03:48:49,840
Speaker 3: who like you know, who considers this selves Nancy imperialist

4292
03:48:49,879 --> 03:48:52,600
Speaker 3: who is also pro CCP and also fucking hates Kissinger.

4293
03:48:52,840 --> 03:48:54,960
Speaker 3: And this is not a position that exists in China.

4294
03:48:55,080 --> 03:48:58,240
Speaker 3: There is nobody like this, nobody, fucking like, no one

4295
03:48:59,120 --> 03:49:00,960
Speaker 3: at all believes this because it's just it's a not

4296
03:49:00,959 --> 03:49:03,560
Speaker 3: a coherent political position. Is it is an American projection

4297
03:49:04,280 --> 03:49:06,800
Speaker 3: of politics on the China because again, meanwhile, like the

4298
03:49:06,840 --> 03:49:08,680
Speaker 3: actual thing that's happened in China is because of the

4299
03:49:08,760 --> 03:49:11,960
Speaker 3: way the media has covered Kissinger. The thing they covered

4300
03:49:12,160 --> 03:49:15,840
Speaker 3: is the normalization of US China relations, and not all

4301
03:49:15,880 --> 03:49:18,240
Speaker 3: of the fucking genocides that he did. And so they

4302
03:49:18,320 --> 03:49:21,680
Speaker 3: have the same fucking whitewashed view of Kissinger that like

4303
03:49:21,880 --> 03:49:24,480
Speaker 3: right wing Americans do and that the American ruling class does.

4304
03:49:27,320 --> 03:49:30,080
Speaker 12: And this is truly, truly has been the century of

4305
03:49:30,160 --> 03:49:32,680
Speaker 12: Kissinger from twenty three to twenty three.

4306
03:49:33,960 --> 03:49:37,120
Speaker 3: But but fuck that, the center of Kissinger is over.

4307
03:49:37,240 --> 03:49:39,760
Speaker 3: Now is the century of the social revolution. We're fucking

4308
03:49:39,840 --> 03:49:42,080
Speaker 3: going for his ass. We're gonna tear apart everything he

4309
03:49:42,160 --> 03:49:45,320
Speaker 3: ever built. That motherfucker's gonna watch from hell as we

4310
03:49:45,400 --> 03:49:49,640
Speaker 3: destroy everything he ever created his entire life time.

4311
03:49:50,280 --> 03:49:52,680
Speaker 7: That's why we're taking a week off to go to

4312
03:49:52,800 --> 03:49:57,480
Speaker 7: Chile and begin the social revolution that Kissinger destroyed again

4313
03:49:58,480 --> 03:49:59,320
Speaker 7: as a podcast.

4314
03:50:00,720 --> 03:50:04,840
Speaker 12: We we we do now have to choose the new

4315
03:50:05,360 --> 03:50:09,080
Speaker 12: most evil person alive. Uh, there's there's been quite a

4316
03:50:09,280 --> 03:50:11,640
Speaker 12: there has been quite a few in the running. We

4317
03:50:11,720 --> 03:50:14,400
Speaker 12: have we have Chinese up there, obviously, we have uh

4318
03:50:15,160 --> 03:50:16,040
Speaker 12: W Bush, we have.

4319
03:50:17,880 --> 03:50:21,680
Speaker 3: We have net and Yahoo. We have making a strong

4320
03:50:21,760 --> 03:50:24,760
Speaker 3: case right now. Yeah, we have him off.

4321
03:50:24,960 --> 03:50:27,280
Speaker 7: Maybe he wanted to take the seat, take the throne.

4322
03:50:28,320 --> 03:50:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, made a decently strong case.

4323
03:50:31,560 --> 03:50:35,000
Speaker 12: Sure, sure there is there is, There is a decent

4324
03:50:35,080 --> 03:50:38,720
Speaker 12: list running. I think only time will tell for who

4325
03:50:38,800 --> 03:50:44,280
Speaker 12: will truly have a lasting impact of similar evil. But yes,

4326
03:50:44,440 --> 03:50:47,400
Speaker 12: that there is now a new new open position for

4327
03:50:47,480 --> 03:50:50,840
Speaker 12: most evil person Alive. So many people are throwing their

4328
03:50:50,840 --> 03:50:53,000
Speaker 12: hat into the ring. We will see how this contest

4329
03:50:53,040 --> 03:50:53,520
Speaker 12: plays out.

4330
03:50:56,640 --> 03:50:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you will. You will hear it when when

4331
03:50:59,120 --> 03:51:01,920
Speaker 3: that fucking person dies. You're shirt on this show too,

4332
03:51:04,200 --> 03:51:09,440
Speaker 3: and we will enjoy it. Yeah, let's be make it

4333
03:51:09,520 --> 03:51:14,000
Speaker 3: up here and go have a good time. Enjoy, Enjoy

4334
03:51:14,640 --> 03:51:16,720
Speaker 3: for this, Enjoy. By the time you're hearing this, the

4335
03:51:16,800 --> 03:51:20,040
Speaker 3: second ever sunrise in one hundred years that does not

4336
03:51:20,240 --> 03:51:22,720
Speaker 3: have Henry Kissinger under it. Yeah.

4337
03:51:23,000 --> 03:51:25,880
Speaker 7: Somewhere today, somewhere in the world, a baby has been

4338
03:51:25,960 --> 03:51:29,320
Speaker 7: born in a post Kissinger world, and we can we can.

4339
03:51:29,480 --> 03:51:32,440
Speaker 3: All the most evil baby has been born and we

4340
03:51:32,560 --> 03:51:34,160
Speaker 3: have to heal. Yeah.

4341
03:51:34,560 --> 03:51:38,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, somewhere thanks to the cyclops I'm Sarah. Henry Kissinger

4342
03:51:38,440 --> 03:51:38,920
Speaker 7: is attack.

4343
03:51:39,360 --> 03:51:39,760
Speaker 3: That's right.

4344
03:51:39,840 --> 03:51:42,520
Speaker 7: So if you're squeezing out a baby this month, just

4345
03:51:42,720 --> 03:51:43,400
Speaker 7: be careful.

4346
03:51:43,720 --> 03:51:44,600
Speaker 3: It's all I'm saying.

4347
03:51:48,000 --> 03:51:51,120
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4348
03:51:51,240 --> 03:51:53,120
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

4349
03:51:53,720 --> 03:51:56,080
Speaker 3: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

4350
03:51:56,320 --> 03:51:58,960
Speaker 12: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4351
03:51:59,040 --> 03:52:01,200
Speaker 12: cool Zone Media dot or check us out on the

4352
03:52:01,280 --> 03:52:04,680
Speaker 12: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

4353
03:52:05,120 --> 03:52:07,200
Speaker 3: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

4354
03:52:07,320 --> 03:52:11,320
Speaker 3: monthly at Coolzonemedia dot com, slash sources. Thanks for listening.