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Speaker 1: Like so many people across America, Hillary and I have

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Speaker 1: a personal connection to the opioid epidemic. I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: where I was when I heard that the son of

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Speaker 1: one of my very best friends, a bright, young twenty

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Speaker 1: eight year old who had worked for Hillary at the

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Speaker 1: State Department and who was pursuing both an MBA and

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Speaker 1: a law degree, had died in his sleep just before Christmas.

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Speaker 1: And we knew him well and liked him so much,

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Speaker 1: it just seemed impossible. Not long after, we learned that

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Speaker 1: he died of a lethal combination of alcohol and oxy

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Speaker 1: code on. Sadly, while he was the first person we

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Speaker 1: knew who suffered a fatal overdose, he wasn't the last.

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Speaker 1: Hillary and I now have five friends who have lost

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Speaker 1: their children to this epidemic. So why am I telling

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Speaker 1: you this? Because in America today, just about everyone knows

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Speaker 1: someone who's died, as it was, to an overdose. Drug

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Speaker 1: overdoses killed more Americans and HIV AIDS, car crashes, or

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Speaker 1: gun violence. Behind every one of these statistics is a

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Speaker 1: real person, someone with a real life, a real story,

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Speaker 1: and real people who love them. While so much of

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Speaker 1: our public health discourse over the last year has focused

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Speaker 1: on the COVID nineteen pandemic. The overdose epidemic remains an

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Speaker 1: urgent crisis, and the challenges of the COVID nineteen pandemic,

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Speaker 1: from isolation to unemployment to the shuttering of community resources

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Speaker 1: and gathering places, have had a disproportionate impact on people

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Speaker 1: struggling with substance abuse disorders. We've got to find a

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Speaker 1: way to turn the tide. Today's episode of Why Am

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Speaker 1: I Telling You This features someone who is one of

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Speaker 1: America's leading experts on the opioid and overdose epidemic, Dr

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Speaker 1: Vivit Murphy. Dr Murphy served as Surgeon General of the

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Speaker 1: United States from and was renominated by President Biden and

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Speaker 1: reconfirmed last month. We recorded this conversation back in and

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Speaker 1: I wish I could say it's no longer relevant, But unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the overdose epidemic continues to rage across America, leaving unfinished

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Speaker 1: lives and broken hearts in its wake. The latest CDC

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Speaker 1: data shows that overdose deaths increased by for the twelve

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Speaker 1: months ending in September. Especially given that the pandemic has

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Speaker 1: cut off people's access to healthcare and support systems, we

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Speaker 1: need to recognize the impact it's having on people's mental

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Speaker 1: health and redouble our efforts to combat this crisis. Dr

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Speaker 1: Vivic Murphy, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Mr President.

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Speaker 1: You did something really remarkable in first issuing the first

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Speaker 1: Certain General's report ever on alcohol, drugs and health, and

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Speaker 1: at the same time, more remarkably to me, you actually

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Speaker 1: sent a let earn a card to two point three

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Speaker 1: million doctors, nurses, dentists, and other clinicians asking them to

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Speaker 1: help address the opioid epidemic. Now nobody had ever done

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Speaker 1: this before. Why did you, Well, thanks for the question,

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Speaker 1: Mr President, for having me joining this conversation on opioids.

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Speaker 1: When I began my time in office, I remember thinking

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Speaker 1: on my first day about my priorities on what they

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Speaker 1: should be. But I had this instinct to spend the

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Speaker 1: first few months on a listening tour, just visiting communities

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Speaker 1: across the country, and the issue that kept coming up

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Speaker 1: again and again and again was the issue of opioids,

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Speaker 1: and so I quickly realized that that needed to be

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Speaker 1: even higher on my priority list. It also dovetailed with

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Speaker 1: the personal experience that I had had as a clinician.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, as a doctor, I took care of

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Speaker 1: patients over the years who struggled with all kinds of

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Speaker 1: chronic pain conditions, and I found myself prescribing opioids often.

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Speaker 1: I also, at the same time was seeing people come

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Speaker 1: in struggling with addiction to heroin, to prescription opioids, and

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Speaker 1: to other all manner of substances, and I began to

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Speaker 1: realize that there was a connection between the way we

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Speaker 1: were as doctors prescribing these pain medicines and what was

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Speaker 1: actually happening to our patients. I wish I had realized

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Speaker 1: that earlier, but I, like many doctors, was taught that

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Speaker 1: if we gave opioid medicines to someone who had quote

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Speaker 1: unquote legitimate pain, that they would not become addicted to

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Speaker 1: that substance. And why were we wrong? So coming into office,

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Speaker 1: when I realized that we had, inadvertently, as a profession,

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Speaker 1: contributed to the epidemic, you know, I realized that in

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Speaker 1: addition to publishing the first Surgeon General's Report on the

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Speaker 1: subject of addiction, we also needed to do more. We

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Speaker 1: needed to call our profession to action to rectify an

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Speaker 1: issue that we had helped create. And so that's why

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Speaker 1: I penned a personal letter to doctors and nurse practitioners

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Speaker 1: and dentists all across the country. And at the time

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Speaker 1: it was you know, I did it an instinct. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know quite what the reaction would be, but I

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Speaker 1: was gratified to hear from many doctors and nurses over

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Speaker 1: the coming months, UH that it actually changed how they practiced,

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Speaker 1: how they prescribed these kind of pain medications. And I

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Speaker 1: remember going to an oral surgeon actually recently to get

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Speaker 1: my own wisdom tooth pulled, uh, and he told me

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Speaker 1: that in addition to receiving that letter, that he had

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Speaker 1: made a decision when he read it that he was

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Speaker 1: going to stop prescribing percoset automatically to everyone who had

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Speaker 1: wisdom teeth removed. And he gave all of them his

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Speaker 1: personal cell phone number, and he braced for what he

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Speaker 1: thought would be an onslaught of calls from patients saying

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Speaker 1: that their pain wasn't well controlled on ibyprofen and they

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Speaker 1: needed something stronger. But days went by and the calls

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Speaker 1: never came, and he realized that, hey, we can actually

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Speaker 1: get by treating pain safely and effectively without necessarily using opioids.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for this. We live in

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Speaker 1: an age of denial about a lot of things. When

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Speaker 1: Chelsea was in high school, all our friends used to

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Speaker 1: say that denial it's not just a river in Egypt

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Speaker 1: and uh, And I think it takes a certain amount

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Speaker 1: of courage just to say I once thought the truth

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Speaker 1: was this, and I learned something and I changed. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I think more and more people have to

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Speaker 1: do about more and more issues, but especially this one.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this a little bit. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people know about the lock zone, and no,

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Speaker 1: it can bring people back, but it's just the first step.

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Speaker 1: So could you briefly describe what should be done to

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Speaker 1: someone who's overdosed, who's injected or inhaled the lock zone

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Speaker 1: and then comes back. That's the beginning, not the end

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Speaker 1: of this process. So describe how that works. Well. The

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Speaker 1: lockson is a really powerful medication and remarkably effective at

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Speaker 1: reversing the effects of opioids. And for people who have

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Speaker 1: who's breathing has been compromised by these medicines, they can

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Speaker 1: reverse that and enable them to breathe again. I've administered

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Speaker 1: in the locks on myself. I've seen just how rapidly

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Speaker 1: it acts, so it's good that we are getting that

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Speaker 1: medication to the hands at first responders and family members,

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Speaker 1: but for far too many people who overdose, the treatment

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Speaker 1: does stop there. And it's shocking how many people are

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Speaker 1: treated with the lock zone and go right back into

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Speaker 1: the community and often in fact, will get more prescriptions

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Speaker 1: for opiate medications. What we really need to do is

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Speaker 1: to bring those people in and connect them to treatment

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Speaker 1: right away, treatment often with medication assisted therapies including methodone Bupid,

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Speaker 1: Norphine UH and now trek Zone. And what we've realized

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Speaker 1: now is that there should be no wrong door to treatment.

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Speaker 1: So whether it's a first responder UH finding you having overdosed,

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Speaker 1: let's say, in the community, whether it's somebody in the

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Speaker 1: emergency room who encounters you, whether it's a somebody in

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Speaker 1: your place of employment who realizes that you have a

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Speaker 1: challenge with addiction. We have to find ways to create

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Speaker 1: channels which people can go from where they are in

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Speaker 1: their communities to getting directly connected to treatment. Right now,

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Speaker 1: it's too hard for people in communities across the country.

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Speaker 1: But if we can change that, and I think we

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Speaker 1: can take people who need and want treatment and actually

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Speaker 1: get them the life stating treatment that they deserve. I

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Speaker 1: think you made a really important point. I remember a

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Speaker 1: couple of summers ago, I was playing golf out on

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Speaker 1: a public golf course and all these folks gathered around me.

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Speaker 1: All they want to talk about was the open wood problem.

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Speaker 1: And there was only one young person there. All the

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Speaker 1: others walked away after about forty five minutes. He stayed

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Speaker 1: behind and said, thank you. I didn't know anybody like

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Speaker 1: you cared about this. I'm four days out of rehab,

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Speaker 1: and he said, I'm not worried about myself. I want

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Speaker 1: to live and now I know how. But he said,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a terrible shame that you've got to

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Speaker 1: have as much money as my family does to afford this.

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Speaker 1: You've got to do something to help the people that

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Speaker 1: have no money. So let's start with what the government

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Speaker 1: should do, or the federal land state government, how should that?

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Speaker 1: Where are we on that? Well, there's no question that

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Speaker 1: when of the big barriers to treatment is the cost

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Speaker 1: and the availability of these services, including the availability of

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Speaker 1: trained personnel. The problem is in part of funding issue.

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Speaker 1: In the last several years, we have seen Congress allocate

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Speaker 1: substantial amounts of money, several billion dollars in fact, but

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Speaker 1: the reality is that we need far more than a

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Speaker 1: few billion dollars to expand treatment sufficiently so that everyone

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Speaker 1: who needs care can get it. When we published the

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Speaker 1: Certain General's Report on Alcohol, Drugs and Health in one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we noted was that only one

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Speaker 1: in ten people who are struggling with the substance use

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Speaker 1: disorder actually getting treatment. And part of that is because

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Speaker 1: people can't get treatment, and part of it also has

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Speaker 1: to do with this stigma, the unfortunate stigma associated with

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Speaker 1: substance use disorders, which prevents people often from seeking help.

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Speaker 1: When I was traveling through Tennessee, for example, I met

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Speaker 1: many people who either had loved ones who are struggling

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Speaker 1: with an opiad use disorder or themselves were who refused

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Speaker 1: to talk to me if there were any cameras around,

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Speaker 1: And the reason was because they felt if somebody knew

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Speaker 1: that they had a problem and that they needed help,

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Speaker 1: that they would be ostracized not just by their neighbors,

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Speaker 1: but also by their doctors. And sadly, I did meet

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Speaker 1: doctors when I was in Tennessee and in other states

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Speaker 1: who didn't believe what they were reading about medication assist

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Speaker 1: to treatment who thought it was just another way of

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Speaker 1: perpetuating a dependence on opioids, and these unfortunate misconceptions, combined

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Speaker 1: with the lack of adequate funding, have combined to make

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Speaker 1: it too hard for people to get treatment. We have

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Speaker 1: evidence about what works. We know, for example, that medication

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Speaker 1: assists to treatment with these three medications in particular method

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Speaker 1: and guben orphine and now trek zone not only reduce

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Speaker 1: the risk of overdose, but they also reduce crime in communities.

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Speaker 1: They reduced the acquisition of needleborn infections like HIV and

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Speaker 1: hepatitis c UH. They are good overall. Um, there are still,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately a majority of treatment facilities in the country right

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Speaker 1: now which do not offer medication assists to treatment, and

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Speaker 1: that to me is uh is an unthinkable tragedy because

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Speaker 1: at a time where we know what works, for the

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Speaker 1: majority of treatment facilities, to not have what works and

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Speaker 1: to be charging people tends of thousands of dollars for

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Speaker 1: that treatment, UH is just it's just horrible, and that's

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Speaker 1: something that I think we absolutely need to change. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this, is it not offered because

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Speaker 1: the money is not there, or because there's a stigma

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Speaker 1: associated with the use of method on about for northern Well.

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Speaker 1: Partially this is about payment, but only partially. So I

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Speaker 1: think that once we get insurance programs of Medicaid and

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Speaker 1: private insurance to fully reimburse for the full suite of

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Speaker 1: medication assisted treatment UM, once we ensure that we actually

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Speaker 1: have adequate personnel trained to deliver that treatment, that will

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Speaker 1: help a lot. But the stigma piece that you brought

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Speaker 1: up is a is a really good point because I

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Speaker 1: have visited communities across the country where treatment is available,

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Speaker 1: but people will not access it because they are worried

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Speaker 1: that they will be looked down upon. You know, if

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Speaker 1: they engage in treatment that they will doctor in fact,

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Speaker 1: will look down upon them. And I visited communities that

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Speaker 1: do not want to invite treatment centers in because they

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Speaker 1: feel it will bring the wrong kind of people into

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Speaker 1: their community and because they have been led to believe

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Speaker 1: that this is uh that this treatment is just perpet

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Speaker 1: awaiting opiate addiction. If you understand like what's really happening

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Speaker 1: with the opia epidemic, you realize that this is not

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Speaker 1: about inviting quote unquote bad people in, but the people

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Speaker 1: who are struggling with opiate addiction are in all of

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Speaker 1: our communities anyway, there are friends, our neighbors, often family members,

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Speaker 1: and they struggle in the shadows though, unable to come

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Speaker 1: forward and share their stories because the unfortunate shame associated

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Speaker 1: with it. One of the things I've tried to do

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Speaker 1: is to get rid of stigma by getting the whole

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Speaker 1: community involved. We have this fight based initiative where we

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Speaker 1: have people from all fights traditions to gather to get

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Speaker 1: people to come together because everybody's congregation has got somebody

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Speaker 1: in it with this problem. Education, whether it's in in

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Speaker 1: school based settings grade school and colleges, or in workplaces

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Speaker 1: or through faith based organizations, can be remarkably effective. The

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Speaker 1: other thing that can happen in these settings is that

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Speaker 1: conversations can be started to actually share the real stories

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Speaker 1: of people who are struggling with addiction. This is hard

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Speaker 1: to do because in an environment where you're not sure

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Speaker 1: how you're going to be received. I can understand how

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Speaker 1: challenging it can be for someone struggling with an opiate

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Speaker 1: used disorder, for example, to come forward and say I

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Speaker 1: have a problem. But what I have seen time and

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Speaker 1: time again is that when people take that courageous step,

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Speaker 1: people all around them respond, sometimes often silently saying oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was the only one, or I thought

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Speaker 1: my family was the only one impacted, but often vocally

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Speaker 1: as well, voicing their support. And I think of faith

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Speaker 1: organizations as powerful partners in this regard. They convene conversations

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Speaker 1: anyway on topics related to faith and life. More broadly,

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Speaker 1: their ability to convene conversations where people share their real

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Speaker 1: story with addiction can be extraordinarily powerful in helping to

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Speaker 1: remove some of that stigma. There are times when culture

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Speaker 1: trump's policy when it comes to ultimate impact, and this

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Speaker 1: is a place where the culture around addiction are underlying

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Speaker 1: belief around it. Uh is has to be addressed before

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Speaker 1: we're fully able to address the epidemic. As much as

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Speaker 1: we feel like we're reading about the opiate epidemic in

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Speaker 1: the Pay Purse, there are still millions of people in

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Speaker 1: our country who don't fully understand what opioids are, how

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Speaker 1: to protect ourselves, you know, from combining opioids with alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and how to protect ourselves when we're using opiods to

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Speaker 1: begin with, when it's appropriate versus not. We still have

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Speaker 1: so many people, for example, who store opioid medicines in

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Speaker 1: their medicine cabinet, and it turns out the medicine cabinet

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Speaker 1: is the worst place for that medicine because other people

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Speaker 1: when they come and visit, can often just easily go

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Speaker 1: and take those opioids. And this is actually what happens

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Speaker 1: in households all across America. Do you have the sense

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Speaker 1: of Congress as well into properly fund this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if there's ever been a bipartisan or a nonpartisan national epidemic,

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Speaker 1: this is yes. And in it at a time where

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Speaker 1: a few things seem bipartisan, this stands out as as

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Speaker 1: as a rare opportunity, rare issue. I don't think though,

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Speaker 1: that many in Congress have shown the appetite to fund

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Speaker 1: the opiate epidemic at the level that it requires. What's

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Speaker 1: happening right now with the how we're funding the opiated

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Speaker 1: epidemic is we're providing oftentimes these one time grants to

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Speaker 1: communities that will run out after a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out, in part, okay, we

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Speaker 1: get something up and running, what's going to sustain us

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Speaker 1: in years two, three, four, and five. But we're also

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Speaker 1: providing that support at a mere fraction of what's needed

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Speaker 1: to really turn the tide on the epidemic in those communities.

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Speaker 1: I think many members of Congress, and some of them

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Speaker 1: have told me this privately, they worry about the price

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Speaker 1: tag on a bill that would really adequately resource the epidemic,

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Speaker 1: because it would be at least ten times greater than

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Speaker 1: the numbers that you're seeing out there. But I think

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Speaker 1: what we have to realize is that the long term

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Speaker 1: cost of not funding that is far greater. Uh And

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Speaker 1: and this is why there's an urgency around this issue.

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Speaker 1: It's why you know, having people like you start discussing

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Speaker 1: this issue and helping raise public awareness are so important

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Speaker 1: because this is one of those times where we need

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Speaker 1: the public to push our policymakers not just to make

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Speaker 1: an investment, but to make the right investment. But I

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Speaker 1: lastly think though it's worth consider also that is in

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Speaker 1: all the discussions we have on opioids, in talking about

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Speaker 1: what's driving this epidemic, from you know, prescribing patterns, to

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies marketing these medicines irresponsibly uh to the public,

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Speaker 1: to a whole host of other factors. There are also

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Speaker 1: some emotional factors that are driving this epidemic as well.

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Speaker 1: I was struck so often and heartbroken often when I

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Speaker 1: visited communities around the country. How behind the stories of

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Speaker 1: mental illness and addiction and even physical illness were often

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Speaker 1: stories of deeper emotional pain that people were experiencing. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it was the pain of poverty, of discrimination. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: was a pain that came with disability um Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: was a pain that came from not having a job

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Speaker 1: and not being able to find a job and feeling

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Speaker 1: like they were outcasts. Sometimes it was a pain of loneliness,

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Speaker 1: which is extremely common, much more so than we realized.

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Speaker 1: But whatever the pain source was, that deeper emotional pain

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Speaker 1: was often driving people to places of despair, and it

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Speaker 1: was manifesting often as disconnection from others. And I realized

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Speaker 1: that if we want to address the opiate epidemic, we

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Speaker 1: don't just need good treatment and counseling. We actually need community.

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Speaker 1: We need connection as well. There's nobody I have met

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Speaker 1: who has come through the dark tunnel of addiction and

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Speaker 1: emerged on the other side who has not had somebody

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Speaker 1: that they trust, who has believed in them, especially when

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Speaker 1: they were not able to believe in themselves. That is

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Speaker 1: why I think about the opiate epidemic is not only

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Speaker 1: an illness, but as a disease of disconnection in part.

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Speaker 1: And this is a place where each of us can

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Speaker 1: be helpful. You don't need a medical degree or a

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Speaker 1: nursing degree to be able to provide support and a

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Speaker 1: listening ear to somebody who is struggling with addiction, to

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Speaker 1: help them feel that they are not being judged for

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Speaker 1: an illness that's not a character flaw, but that's actually

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Speaker 1: a medical condition. And I will tell you that despite

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Speaker 1: my training as a doctor, despite all the years that

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Speaker 1: you know I put into learning how to treat in

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Speaker 1: biological illnesses, that the power of a family member, of

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Speaker 1: friend um building a loving, trusting relationship with someone is

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Speaker 1: far greater than any medicine I could prescribe, or any

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Speaker 1: treatment that I could give. And that's why I believe

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Speaker 1: that in the fight against the opiate addiction, that love

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Speaker 1: is in fact our most powerful medicine. It's one that

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Speaker 1: anyone can dispense, and it's one that we need now

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Speaker 1: more than ever. Our country was very lucky to have

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Speaker 1: you as our Surgeon General, and I thank you. The

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Speaker 1: only thing I'd like to say before we close to

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Speaker 1: the doubters is that no progress to human life would

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Speaker 1: ever be made if we never tried, because we couldn't

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Speaker 1: win every time. That's someone who's lived in a family

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Speaker 1: that's experienced addiction, who's what's friends bury their children. You

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Speaker 1: won't win them all, but you can win a lot,

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Speaker 1: and we have to try. Thank you very much, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Mr President. We'll be right back. My name is Sarah Gad.

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Speaker 1: I'm a c g i U Clinton Global Initiative University alumni.

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Speaker 1: It was actually the very first time I decided to

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Speaker 1: share my story and my history with opioid addiction was

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Speaker 1: in that discussion room at c g i U. They

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Speaker 1: were just so supportive, and I realized, why have I

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Speaker 1: been so secretive about this for so long? I first

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Speaker 1: became addicted to opioids when I was in my third

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Speaker 1: year of medical school. I ended up in a pretty

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Speaker 1: horrific car accident which I remember nothing about. I woke

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Speaker 1: up in a hospital room with my leg in a sling.

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Speaker 1: I had undergone emergency surgery on my leg because my

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Speaker 1: ankle bone literally pierced through my skin and had to

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Speaker 1: be hammered and screwed back into place. So it was

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Speaker 1: a pretty long, pretty painful recovery process. And during that

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Speaker 1: time I was prescribed opioids like perk set An, OxyContin,

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Speaker 1: and at first I was just taking them for pain.

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Speaker 1: But as I was recovering, I was watching all of

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Speaker 1: my classmates graduate onto their fourth year of medical school.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile I was bedridden and I was depressed. My opioid

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Speaker 1: prescription pain medication was by that point they had become

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Speaker 1: my only source of joy and happiness. And then maybe

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Speaker 1: about a year out after my accident, my doctor sat

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Speaker 1: down with me and was like, look, you cannot be

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Speaker 1: in this much pain this far out. Do you have

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Speaker 1: a dependency problem? And I denied it. I just didn't

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Speaker 1: want to acknowledge it. Once my doctor stopped prescribing me opioids,

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Speaker 1: I started going to see a bunch of other doctors

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Speaker 1: and then it didn't take too long for them to

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Speaker 1: figure out that I had been doctor shopping and so

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Speaker 1: as a third year medical student, I was familiar with

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Speaker 1: how to write prescriptions and that's what landed me in

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Speaker 1: legal trouble and got me arrested. And once you're criminalized

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Speaker 1: and you have a criminal record and arrest record, very

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Speaker 1: difficult to reintegrate back into society in any sort of

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Speaker 1: meaningful way. It was always just kind of the cycle

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Speaker 1: of going to jail and detoxing cold turkey and going

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Speaker 1: through the hell of physical withdrawal, getting out, trying to

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Speaker 1: get my life back on track, and then relapsing and

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Speaker 1: then going back to jail. And then I was incarcerated

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Speaker 1: for five days, and the day that I got out,

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Speaker 1: I actually ended up overdosing. It was just because my

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Speaker 1: tolerance had gone down so much during that period, and

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Speaker 1: I woke up in an ambulance being injected with narcan

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Speaker 1: and told that I had just overdosed on opioids. The

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Speaker 1: Centers for Disease Control reports that more than people died

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Speaker 1: from opioid to overdoses in two thousand sixteen. Addicts need

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Speaker 1: help without the fear of being stigmatized or arrested. The

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Speaker 1: crisis has become so widespread that the Surgeon General is

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Speaker 1: urging ordinary citizens to carry the locks on, a drug

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Speaker 1: that reverses the effects of a drug overdose and saves lives.

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Speaker 1: The only reason I survived was at that point we

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Speaker 1: had been given the locks on. The gentleman that I

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Speaker 1: was using with that his house knew how to administer it.

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Speaker 1: As I said when we were talking earlier with Dr Marthy,

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Speaker 1: this challenge is one that requires all hands on deck.

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Speaker 1: One of the most important partners that we've had is

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Speaker 1: Julie Stamper, a board member for the harm Reduction Coalition

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Speaker 1: and the locks On Advocate and someone who is an

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Speaker 1: indispensable force if we're ever going to turn this thing around. So, Julie,

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Speaker 1: why have you been so passionate about this for so long? First,

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Speaker 1: I'll say thank you so much for having me here

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Speaker 1: and and giving me a platform and for all the

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Speaker 1: work the Clinton Foundation has done, because you've been there

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Speaker 1: for years right along with me, and I come to

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Speaker 1: the work and the passion about the work, partly unwillingly

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Speaker 1: and partly proudly. Proudly because my stepfather, Jack Fishman, is

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Speaker 1: credited with inventing a lock zone in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: So anything that I can do to further his legacy

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Speaker 1: and a chance to talk about him. He passed a

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Speaker 1: few years ago, so he's we miss him greatly. So

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Speaker 1: for me to talk about in a lock zone means

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Speaker 1: I get to talk about him, But I also get

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Speaker 1: to talk about my brother, who died of an overdose

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Speaker 1: in two thousand three, so his legacy exists as well.

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Speaker 1: So for me, the unwilling part is that I had

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Speaker 1: to come in to do the work because I lost

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Speaker 1: my brother. But I'm proud to do the work because

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Speaker 1: of my stepfather and a lock zone has saved hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of lives across the world. But now we

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Speaker 1: need to do more to make it because we're losing

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Speaker 1: people here all the time. You cite a mission of

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Speaker 1: your own endeavor? Is harm reduction? What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: It actually is what it sounds like. It's harm reduction,

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Speaker 1: reducing harm. We practice harm reduction every day. You get

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Speaker 1: up in the morning, you brush your teeth, you're using

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Speaker 1: a toothpaste that has fluoride in it. That's harm reduction.

435
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: You get in your car, you put your seatbelt on,

436
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: also harm reduction. You inject drugs and have an also nearby,

437
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: that's harm reduction. And even in that capacity with with

438
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: substance use, if you are an ivy drug user, you're

439
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: hopefully going to have access to clean syringes, sterile water,

440
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: any kind of rig anything that you need to inject

441
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: safely so that you're not getting infected. So anything that

442
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: we can do to reduce harm for people who use

443
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: drugs is key. So harm reduction is something that we

444
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: practice all the time. What role was reducing stigma and

445
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: harm reduction. Stigma is one of the biggest obstacles people

446
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: who use drugs face on a daily basis. We're trying

447
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: to do things by even just simply changing language. So

448
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: instead of referring to someone as an addict, we say

449
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: someone who uses drugs. All right, it's people first language.

450
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: So it's not what they do, it's who they are, right,

451
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: So it's simple, it's a it's very subtle even, but

452
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: what it does it actually honors that that you are

453
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: a person. You know, So, in terms of my history

454
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: with my brother and his substance use, my brother was

455
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: a junkie, all right. That was the word that was

456
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: used talking about my brother who I grew up with. Now,

457
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm supposed to call him a junkie,

458
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: and I did because that's what I was told. And

459
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: as a result of that, I lost years with my brother.

460
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: He barely met my children. Right, It's devastating to consider

461
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: what something, so what we think is simple stigma could

462
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: do because of this stigma attached to substance use. I

463
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: lost him before I actually lost him. So stigma plays

464
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: a big part in in preventing people who use drugs

465
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: from getting the help that they need. A lot of

466
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: the conversations that happened now. You know, we heard for

467
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: years about the war on drugs, and now we know

468
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: it was the wrong way to try to help the situation.

469
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: You know, we we we could go back to you know,

470
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: the commercial where you cracking the egg and the frying pan.

471
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: This is your brain and it is your brain on drugs.

472
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: This is your brain on drugs. And we became less

473
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: credible because of it, because it wasn't true in the

474
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: sense that you know, when we tell our children marijuana

475
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: will kill you, Uh, they look at us like we're

476
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: crazy because we're not telling them the truth. And so

477
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: we need to do more to tell the truth. And

478
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: you know, I've said this before and and I don't know,

479
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's controversial. The reason we're having this conversation, you

480
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: and I right now is because more white people are

481
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: dying right this This epidemic has impacted black and brown

482
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: people in ways that we can't even fathom. And we

483
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: kind of not that we ignore it, but we just

484
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: kind of say, oh, well, it wasn't an issue then,

485
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: but now it's an issue because all these you know,

486
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: white teenagers are overdosing. So we need to recognize that

487
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: that's a big component of the stigma for sure, and

488
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: and one of our biggest obstacles. And and so I

489
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: I you know, I've said this before. Evolution is tremendous, right.

490
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: I came a long way from thinking my brother was

491
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: a junkie to now realizing no, he was a person

492
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: who had some serious issues and they were compounded by

493
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: his substance. Use, you, sir, have m a tremendous way,

494
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: and I applaud the effort and the willingness for you

495
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: to come to the place where you're at now to

496
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: try to help Stay tuned for more of the conversation

497
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: after this short break. I read a study sometime in

498
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: the last year that said most people who die of

499
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: overdoses are in effect not alone. There's somebody in the

500
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: room with them, or somebody in the next room, or

501
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: somebody in the house, or if they're outside, within twenty

502
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: ft of them, almost half, which means that, given the

503
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: scale of this opioid epidemic, it would be better if

504
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: in almost every social setting or work setting, somebody had

505
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: the locks on. What do you think we could do

506
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: to change the willingness of people to tote that around everywhere?

507
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: Because the more people who have it in their pocket

508
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: to better off. We are, absolutely so you know we

509
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: the last time you and I had a conversation, I

510
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: brought you an overdose prevention kit and one of the

511
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: things that I've shown people because if you if you've

512
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: seen the narcan that's out now, it's a teeny tiny

513
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: little box. I mean it's like a box of altoys

514
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: or tic TACs or you know, the breath mints that

515
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: you're going to keep in your bag. So I I joke,

516
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: but I mean it sincerely. Like if I'm going out

517
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: for an evening and I have my little evening bag,

518
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I take a dose with me and it's in my bag.

519
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: Because you never know where you're gonna possibly encounter someone.

520
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: The opportunity to give someone the locks on who might

521
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: actually have access to someone who needs it is important,

522
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: and I think we should be doing something about making

523
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: sure restaurants have it. You know, any place where there

524
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: is a single use bathroom is a risk because that's

525
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: where someone might go to use drugs. We're now training

526
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: librarians because a lot of overdoses are happening in libraries,

527
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: so it's important. Oh yes, because there's always little corners

528
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: and their single use bathrooms. So yeah, no, we've got

529
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: to do a whole lot to get it out there.

530
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I I have a friend who who owns

531
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: a restaurant, and I was like, let me give you

532
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: a kid so you can keep it behind the bar.

533
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: And I know, you know Clinton Foundation along with Emergent

534
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: Bio Solutions, the company that that produces narcan, making it

535
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: available for schools, universities, colleges. But maybe there should be

536
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: an effort for a one time you know, for for

537
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: the Starbucks location on the corner of whatever, that that

538
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: that the owner can can right in and get a kit.

539
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: And I you know, the conversations that I have had

540
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: with people over the years who wish they had had it,

541
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: that's what's sad. What have you told your children about opioids?

542
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: How do you deal with it? And blessed three times over?

543
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: I have three incredible boys, a nineteen year old, a

544
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: sixteen year old, and a twelve year old, and it's

545
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: it's I think for me, you know, I think about

546
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: the loss of my brother and them not not getting

547
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: to know their uncle who was super cool and funny

548
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: and a great singer and a guitar player, and and

549
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: my my youngest reminds me so much of my brother

550
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: sometimes that it's heartbreaking. But so when I think about

551
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: my brother's death, I think, if it's going to do anything,

552
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: it's going to help save my children because we talk

553
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: about Uncle Jonathan and why he's not here, and a

554
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: lot of that has an impact on them. You know,

555
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: when we've had conversations about when you go out into

556
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: the world and you may experiment with substances, your body

557
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: chemistry will likely react differently than somebody else's because you

558
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: have addiction around you. Both sides of the families have

559
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: struggles with addiction, so you have to be prepared for that.

560
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: So I I know I have conversations with my boys

561
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: that a lot of parents aren't capable of having, aren't

562
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: willing to have. That to me is the most important

563
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: right because they're the ones who were looking out for

564
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: It's their future, So we have to have these conversations

565
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: with them that I have a friend who shared with

566
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: me that her sixteen year old son was at a

567
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: party and there were children snorting Heroin sixteen and there

568
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: was no n a locks on. I want to strangle somebody,

569
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: because that's an easy fix. So I said to her,

570
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: let me give you a kit. He could put it

571
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: in his pocket. It is small enough, no one will know.

572
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: And of course the immediate responses, well, he would never

573
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: do that. And it's the same message I give to

574
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: my children. You're going out to a party, and my

575
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: older ones takeing a locks on with you, not for you,

576
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: for someone else, just in case. So we have to

577
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: talk to our children. We have talked to the parents

578
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: of children. We need to get in there and we

579
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: need to have real conversations because now we see you know,

580
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: when I do a training, I tell people the first

581
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: thing I say is you're gonna all walk out of

582
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: here superheroes, because you're going to be able to save

583
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: a life. If anybody's listening to me, you should think

584
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: about how much in the locks owner is in your

585
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: community and who's got it, and realize that most of

586
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: you with health insurance, particularly you live in open prescription cities,

587
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: could get it with a very small copae and disremember,

588
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: you never know when you're gonna need it. Thank you,

589
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: Thank you. Why Am I telling You? This is a

590
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: production of our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation and at

591
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: Will Media. Our executive producers are Craig Manascian and Will Malnadi.

592
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: Our production team includes Mitch Bluestein, Jamison cat Sufis, Tom Galton,

593
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: Sarah Harrows, and Jake Young, with production support from Tyler

594
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Scott and Oltavia Young. Original music by What White. Special

595
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: thanks to John Sykes, Tina Flinois, John Davidson on hell Arena,

596
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: Corey Gantley, Oscar Flores, Kevin Thurm and all our dedicated

597
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. If you have

598
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: an idea of suggestion for the show, we'd love to

599
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: hear it from you, so please visit Clinton Foundation dot

600
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: org slash podcast to share your thoughts with us. If

601
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: you like the show, tell someone else about it. You

602
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: can subscribe to Who I Am I Telling You This

603
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

604
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. By listening to this podcast, you're

605
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: helping support the work of the Clinton Foundation. So thank you. Hi.

606
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm Chris Thrasher, and I serve as the Senior Director

607
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: of Substance Use Disorders and recovery with the opiotor Sponse

608
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: Network at the Clinton Foundation. According to the Centers for

609
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: Disease Control and Prevention, each year we lose tens of

610
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: thousands of lives to an opiate overdose in the United States,

611
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: and now with COVID nineteen, this tragic and preventable epidemic

612
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: has only worsened and intensified. At the Clinton Foundation, we're

613
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: working to combat this crisis head on. We invite you

614
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: to learn more about our work and see how you

615
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: can get involved. Please visit us at Clinton Foundation dot org.

616
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: Slash Podcast