1
00:00:15,516 --> 00:00:15,996
Speaker 1: Pushkin.

2
00:00:20,276 --> 00:00:22,956
Speaker 2: Soccer Mommy is one of the standout singer songwriters to

3
00:00:23,036 --> 00:00:26,276
Speaker 2: merge over the last half decade. She was born Sophia

4
00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:29,316
Speaker 2: Allison and raised in Nashville, Tennessee, where she started playing

5
00:00:29,356 --> 00:00:32,956
Speaker 2: guitar at six years old. Sophia started posting her songs

6
00:00:32,996 --> 00:00:35,476
Speaker 2: on band camp in twenty fifteen under the name soccer

7
00:00:35,516 --> 00:00:37,916
Speaker 2: Mommy the summer before moving to New York to study

8
00:00:37,996 --> 00:00:41,836
Speaker 2: music business at NYU. Two years later, she dropped out

9
00:00:41,836 --> 00:00:45,716
Speaker 2: after signing her first record deal with Fat Possum. Since then,

10
00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:47,876
Speaker 2: she has released four albums and toured with artists like

11
00:00:47,956 --> 00:00:53,076
Speaker 2: Vampire Weekend, Phoebe Bridgers, and Mitski. Soccer Mommy's latest album, Evergreen,

12
00:00:53,356 --> 00:00:56,636
Speaker 2: is a reflection on grief and loneliness, and was described

13
00:00:56,676 --> 00:00:59,556
Speaker 2: recently by Pitchfork as the most laid back and pastoral

14
00:00:59,676 --> 00:01:06,316
Speaker 2: music of her career. This is broken record liner notes

15
00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:14,196
Speaker 2: for the digital age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's Bruce Alum

16
00:01:14,476 --> 00:01:16,436
Speaker 2: with Soccer Mommy.

17
00:01:27,676 --> 00:01:37,556
Speaker 3: You've got name, You've got to face all these things.

18
00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:49,516
Speaker 4: I don't know Send James, It's Slyes Sun. You've got

19
00:01:49,596 --> 00:02:01,356
Speaker 4: a name. You've been with me? Where Argon Hashi faces

20
00:02:01,356 --> 00:02:02,316
Speaker 4: on a no.

21
00:02:04,476 --> 00:02:13,756
Speaker 5: Sles Bsnoyay, it's so makes.

22
00:02:13,236 --> 00:02:17,756
Speaker 4: Sense based the lever.

23
00:02:20,356 --> 00:02:31,876
Speaker 6: Fheard not the chance had ask her though, I'll ask you.

24
00:02:41,996 --> 00:02:51,916
Speaker 4: I've got a name, You've got a big sho.

25
00:02:52,676 --> 00:02:57,196
Speaker 7: Out of careny thing, and.

26
00:02:57,436 --> 00:02:58,156
Speaker 8: I ne.

27
00:03:03,516 --> 00:03:09,156
Speaker 4: N escape from.

28
00:03:13,356 --> 00:03:20,236
Speaker 3: Gibbert say linn if I moed.

29
00:03:23,436 --> 00:03:38,236
Speaker 5: Bosing, It's makes sense. Bosnoid leve fhard not the chance.

30
00:03:38,036 --> 00:03:49,916
Speaker 4: Side give th bosing. It can't forget boss, like.

31
00:03:50,076 --> 00:03:58,676
Speaker 9: The things on itself, for had not the chance side

32
00:03:59,556 --> 00:04:00,396
Speaker 9: tell the thing.

33
00:04:04,796 --> 00:04:06,716
Speaker 4: A sell the thing.

34
00:04:29,996 --> 00:04:33,556
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the first it's the first grade song. Well

35
00:04:33,596 --> 00:04:35,596
Speaker 1: actually it's the first song and the first grade song

36
00:04:36,356 --> 00:04:40,356
Speaker 1: off your new album. So, Sophie Allison soccer mommy, thank

37
00:04:40,436 --> 00:04:42,516
Speaker 1: you so much for coming in. Yeah, thanks for having me,

38
00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:45,756
Speaker 1: your total trooper. You come in, you pick up the guitar,

39
00:04:46,276 --> 00:04:48,076
Speaker 1: I need some reverb, and then you just sit down

40
00:04:48,116 --> 00:04:50,036
Speaker 1: and play. That was no muss, no fuss.

41
00:04:50,436 --> 00:04:53,276
Speaker 8: It's always easier alone without it, without a band with you.

42
00:04:53,476 --> 00:04:55,516
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, they're bringing you down.

43
00:04:55,876 --> 00:04:58,356
Speaker 8: Well no, it's obviously I love playing with them, but

44
00:04:58,596 --> 00:05:01,356
Speaker 8: it's it's simpler. Yeah, you know, it's more straightforward. Everything

45
00:05:01,396 --> 00:05:04,916
Speaker 8: I write is just guitar and vocals. While I'm writing it,

46
00:05:05,076 --> 00:05:07,756
Speaker 8: So it's just like playing its simplest form.

47
00:05:08,156 --> 00:05:10,636
Speaker 1: Okay. For the guitar players out there who were saying, wow,

48
00:05:10,676 --> 00:05:13,396
Speaker 1: how'd she get that sound? What was your tuning?

49
00:05:13,676 --> 00:05:16,796
Speaker 8: It's open D. It's da D F sharp ad.

50
00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:19,956
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so like dad, dad, but you turn down

51
00:05:19,996 --> 00:05:22,316
Speaker 1: the F sharp exactly? Do you write a lot in that?

52
00:05:22,876 --> 00:05:25,276
Speaker 8: I do? Actually, I use it a lot. I mostly

53
00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:28,876
Speaker 8: use that open A, which is e A C sharp

54
00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:30,876
Speaker 8: eae and standard.

55
00:05:31,956 --> 00:05:35,276
Speaker 1: When did you, cause you started playing very young, when

56
00:05:35,356 --> 00:05:36,836
Speaker 1: did the different tunings come in?

57
00:05:37,636 --> 00:05:40,636
Speaker 8: That wasn't until like soccer mommy, pretty much until I

58
00:05:40,676 --> 00:05:43,836
Speaker 8: started writing songs for that. I think it was probably

59
00:05:43,956 --> 00:05:47,996
Speaker 8: about when I was like nineteen or twenty. I think

60
00:05:48,316 --> 00:05:50,756
Speaker 8: it's just a really good way if you've been playing

61
00:05:50,796 --> 00:05:52,556
Speaker 8: guitar for a long time and you kind of know

62
00:05:52,716 --> 00:05:56,316
Speaker 8: the neck a bit, you know chord shapes to take

63
00:05:56,356 --> 00:05:58,756
Speaker 8: all of that knowledge out of your hands a little

64
00:05:58,796 --> 00:06:01,316
Speaker 8: bit and to kind of erase that, like you can

65
00:06:01,356 --> 00:06:04,716
Speaker 8: get a little bit like formulaic. I think sometimes when

66
00:06:04,756 --> 00:06:08,076
Speaker 8: you know where to go next, and it definitely takes

67
00:06:08,116 --> 00:06:08,476
Speaker 8: that away.

68
00:06:09,636 --> 00:06:14,036
Speaker 1: Does it take a lot of rethinking or is it

69
00:06:14,116 --> 00:06:16,276
Speaker 1: the sort of thing you find a chord, you find

70
00:06:16,316 --> 00:06:17,756
Speaker 1: a good sound and then you move it up and

71
00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:18,836
Speaker 1: down the neck a little bit.

72
00:06:19,396 --> 00:06:21,356
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's kind of you have to rethink a lot,

73
00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:25,196
Speaker 8: but you do find things that I think in open

74
00:06:25,276 --> 00:06:27,956
Speaker 8: a for example, if I were to play like a

75
00:06:28,036 --> 00:06:32,116
Speaker 8: dominant seven chord just anywhere on the neck pretty much,

76
00:06:32,116 --> 00:06:33,476
Speaker 8: if I were to play that kind of shape, it

77
00:06:33,516 --> 00:06:37,916
Speaker 8: would be a minor chord, just randomly found that out.

78
00:06:38,276 --> 00:06:40,756
Speaker 8: But you just kind of you mess around until you

79
00:06:40,796 --> 00:06:43,756
Speaker 8: find something that sounds like a chord, sounds recognizable, and

80
00:06:43,836 --> 00:06:46,276
Speaker 8: then yeah, you can put it, put it anywhere, and

81
00:06:46,436 --> 00:06:49,956
Speaker 8: just have to maybe work around open strings sounding a

82
00:06:50,036 --> 00:06:53,036
Speaker 8: little funky and try to stay away from those if

83
00:06:53,076 --> 00:06:53,756
Speaker 8: it's not working.

84
00:06:54,636 --> 00:06:57,996
Speaker 1: I've read somewhere your father was a neuroscientist.

85
00:06:58,436 --> 00:06:59,436
Speaker 8: He is a neuroscientist.

86
00:06:59,556 --> 00:07:00,316
Speaker 1: What does he study.

87
00:07:01,276 --> 00:07:06,556
Speaker 8: I have no clue he does. He was, like, I know,

88
00:07:06,716 --> 00:07:09,036
Speaker 8: he was studying amphibians when I was younger. I think

89
00:07:09,156 --> 00:07:11,276
Speaker 8: he just runs like a lab for college students now,

90
00:07:11,356 --> 00:07:14,876
Speaker 8: so he's not doing anything crazy, you know, it's just

91
00:07:14,996 --> 00:07:17,996
Speaker 8: kind of lab work.

92
00:07:18,356 --> 00:07:20,596
Speaker 1: I think he would have some he would have some

93
00:07:20,716 --> 00:07:23,436
Speaker 1: thoughts on open tunings and how you it sort of

94
00:07:23,556 --> 00:07:25,756
Speaker 1: rearranges your neural pathways all that.

95
00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:28,796
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it really does. It completely makes you

96
00:07:28,916 --> 00:07:33,556
Speaker 8: relearn that which you know, and like chord shapes, you know,

97
00:07:33,676 --> 00:07:35,956
Speaker 8: you have these new chord shapes that if you were

98
00:07:35,996 --> 00:07:38,796
Speaker 8: to blame in standard, it's like mush.

99
00:07:40,516 --> 00:07:41,956
Speaker 1: How did that change your song writing?

100
00:07:43,876 --> 00:07:48,156
Speaker 8: I think it just gave me more space to be inspired. Honestly.

101
00:07:49,156 --> 00:07:53,316
Speaker 8: I still write in standard too sometimes, but it's a

102
00:07:53,396 --> 00:07:56,356
Speaker 8: lot easier to come up with something new and fresh

103
00:07:56,436 --> 00:08:00,116
Speaker 8: and something that triggers something new in your brain, you know,

104
00:08:00,236 --> 00:08:04,356
Speaker 8: melodically or just kind of vibe wise, if you don't

105
00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:07,676
Speaker 8: have such a set idea of what you're going to

106
00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:08,516
Speaker 8: do and what you can.

107
00:08:08,476 --> 00:08:12,036
Speaker 1: Do, does it become a little more almost subconscious what

108
00:08:12,116 --> 00:08:12,516
Speaker 1: you're doing.

109
00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:16,316
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're just looking for sound, honestly, like when you're

110
00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:20,396
Speaker 8: doing an open tuning and you don't know chords, You're

111
00:08:20,476 --> 00:08:22,316
Speaker 8: just looking for something that sounds cool, and you're just

112
00:08:22,436 --> 00:08:25,996
Speaker 8: like putting your hands in places kind of guessing and

113
00:08:27,156 --> 00:08:29,196
Speaker 8: if something sounds weird and you can just move your

114
00:08:29,236 --> 00:08:31,316
Speaker 8: finger over a thread, move it up a thread, down

115
00:08:31,356 --> 00:08:35,116
Speaker 8: a fret, see if that changes anything. And then once

116
00:08:35,156 --> 00:08:37,436
Speaker 8: you get those, yeah, those kind of shapes, you can

117
00:08:38,396 --> 00:08:40,956
Speaker 8: get a little bit more normal with what you're expecting

118
00:08:41,076 --> 00:08:43,876
Speaker 8: to do and chord progressions and all that. But it

119
00:08:44,556 --> 00:08:48,876
Speaker 8: definitely is something that kind of unleashes this freedom in

120
00:08:48,996 --> 00:08:51,316
Speaker 8: the same way that people can write amazing music without

121
00:08:51,396 --> 00:08:54,396
Speaker 8: understanding an instrument at all. It's like you can kind

122
00:08:54,436 --> 00:08:55,596
Speaker 8: of get a freedom out.

123
00:08:55,436 --> 00:08:58,556
Speaker 1: Of it, and some people, if they learn an instrument too,

124
00:08:58,596 --> 00:09:02,356
Speaker 1: will feel a little constricted.

125
00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:03,356
Speaker 10: Yeah.

126
00:09:03,596 --> 00:09:07,076
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you've got a lot of and you always

127
00:09:07,116 --> 00:09:08,876
Speaker 1: have in your music. You've got a lot of really

128
00:09:10,556 --> 00:09:13,596
Speaker 1: sort of harmonic moves in your songs. Do you write,

129
00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:15,996
Speaker 1: is it the harmony come first and then the melody?

130
00:09:16,796 --> 00:09:20,996
Speaker 8: It's always chords first. Yeah, it's always always guitar chords,

131
00:09:21,796 --> 00:09:24,676
Speaker 8: not necessarily the entire song written out, but I kind

132
00:09:24,756 --> 00:09:27,356
Speaker 8: of find a chord progression or something and start working

133
00:09:27,396 --> 00:09:31,796
Speaker 8: off of that with like lyrical and melodic ideas. Those

134
00:09:32,236 --> 00:09:37,276
Speaker 8: lyrics and melody usually kind of form together. The lyrics

135
00:09:37,316 --> 00:09:39,956
Speaker 8: maybe take a little longer. She tweaked a little bit,

136
00:09:40,036 --> 00:09:44,076
Speaker 8: but I try to make sure those are intertwined, because

137
00:09:44,116 --> 00:09:46,276
Speaker 8: I think that cadence and everything is really important.

138
00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:50,876
Speaker 1: You have a I think it's in the song change.

139
00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:53,996
Speaker 1: I think you've got a nice I think you've got

140
00:09:54,036 --> 00:09:56,236
Speaker 1: a nice key change right at the end of the chorus,

141
00:09:56,996 --> 00:10:00,556
Speaker 1: which I can't I can't quite remember what the aggression was.

142
00:10:00,756 --> 00:10:02,516
Speaker 8: I don't know what the key change goes. I wish

143
00:10:02,516 --> 00:10:04,596
Speaker 8: I could tell you, because it's in a crazy tuning,

144
00:10:04,716 --> 00:10:08,236
Speaker 8: so I have basically no idea what I'm playing. It's in.

145
00:10:09,156 --> 00:10:12,236
Speaker 8: It's like a Joni Mitchell tuning that I that I saw,

146
00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:19,996
Speaker 8: but it's I think it's dac fa fa D. I

147
00:10:20,076 --> 00:10:22,076
Speaker 8: think dak fad.

148
00:10:22,756 --> 00:10:22,956
Speaker 4: Yeah.

149
00:10:23,116 --> 00:10:24,796
Speaker 8: That sounds like something definitely strange.

150
00:10:24,956 --> 00:10:27,076
Speaker 1: It's a very deep holl you're going into if you're

151
00:10:27,076 --> 00:10:30,236
Speaker 1: doing Joni Mitchell tune. Yeah, yeah, what did you just

152
00:10:30,596 --> 00:10:32,436
Speaker 1: hear one of her songs and start looking them up?

153
00:10:32,876 --> 00:10:35,876
Speaker 8: No? I think Actually my guitar player, Julian, who's my partner,

154
00:10:35,916 --> 00:10:37,996
Speaker 8: who had tuned one of the guitars in our house

155
00:10:38,076 --> 00:10:38,276
Speaker 8: to it.

156
00:10:38,716 --> 00:10:39,236
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

157
00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:41,956
Speaker 8: Sometimes we'll just give me one and say try this

158
00:10:42,156 --> 00:10:43,916
Speaker 8: and if I can't. If I don't find something in

159
00:10:43,956 --> 00:10:47,156
Speaker 8: a minute, I'm like, I don't like this one. If

160
00:10:47,196 --> 00:10:49,716
Speaker 8: I find like a really pretty sounding chord, I'm like, ooh.

161
00:10:50,316 --> 00:10:54,436
Speaker 1: Interesting, You've also and I'm not I don't remember the song.

162
00:10:54,476 --> 00:10:56,276
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of boro chords and songs you

163
00:10:56,396 --> 00:10:58,636
Speaker 1: go to a lot of miners. When people that expect

164
00:10:58,636 --> 00:11:03,356
Speaker 1: a major one song, you've got a really nice walk

165
00:11:03,476 --> 00:11:06,316
Speaker 1: up from like the minor sixth, the flat six flat

166
00:11:06,396 --> 00:11:09,596
Speaker 1: seventh to the tonic, which is really unexpected. Songs are

167
00:11:09,636 --> 00:11:13,396
Speaker 1: full of you know, in an era where most songs

168
00:11:13,436 --> 00:11:17,516
Speaker 1: we hear have like four chords, Yeah, yours are always surprising.

169
00:11:18,436 --> 00:11:21,876
Speaker 8: Yeah. I love chords and I love you know, surprising

170
00:11:21,996 --> 00:11:25,476
Speaker 8: changes that make you like kind of feel it. I

171
00:11:25,556 --> 00:11:27,436
Speaker 8: guess when it comes to a point in a song

172
00:11:27,516 --> 00:11:30,676
Speaker 8: and there's a strange chord and you're like, WHOA interesting.

173
00:11:31,676 --> 00:11:34,516
Speaker 8: I think that was something that used to be used

174
00:11:34,516 --> 00:11:37,316
Speaker 8: a lot more in particularly in pop music, Like even

175
00:11:37,356 --> 00:11:39,036
Speaker 8: when I was growing up. I think there's a lot

176
00:11:39,076 --> 00:11:42,676
Speaker 8: of really sneaky stuff going on in pop music. You

177
00:11:42,716 --> 00:11:45,436
Speaker 8: don't see it as much now, I don't think, but

178
00:11:45,756 --> 00:11:48,316
Speaker 8: I think you can still make things that are catchy

179
00:11:48,716 --> 00:11:52,836
Speaker 8: and you know, poppy, so to speak, and have those

180
00:11:52,996 --> 00:11:54,516
Speaker 8: kind of things start in there and it's kind of

181
00:11:54,636 --> 00:11:59,436
Speaker 8: like being sneakily kind of crazy in the middle of

182
00:11:59,516 --> 00:12:01,356
Speaker 8: a song that's right like pop.

183
00:12:01,916 --> 00:12:04,796
Speaker 1: And you know, you give people a little like you said,

184
00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:07,676
Speaker 1: you got a jolt when you find those things, So

185
00:12:08,716 --> 00:12:10,316
Speaker 1: of course it gives the listeners that too.

186
00:12:11,036 --> 00:12:13,196
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's I mean it feels good when you hear

187
00:12:13,356 --> 00:12:15,676
Speaker 8: people do that. I mean you look at like Nirvana

188
00:12:15,836 --> 00:12:19,716
Speaker 8: even for example, and you hear these kind of sometimes

189
00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:25,036
Speaker 8: slightly off chord progressions that are really satisfying with the

190
00:12:25,116 --> 00:12:28,596
Speaker 8: melodies and everything, and I think it inspires something a

191
00:12:28,636 --> 00:12:30,156
Speaker 8: little different, a little more exciting.

192
00:12:30,316 --> 00:12:33,836
Speaker 1: Sometimes I hear quite a bit of Elliott Smith and

193
00:12:33,876 --> 00:12:35,676
Speaker 1: you're playing too, But I don't know if.

194
00:12:35,596 --> 00:12:36,756
Speaker 8: That's I love Elliot Smith.

195
00:12:36,916 --> 00:12:39,756
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so I'm not You're not going to stare

196
00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:40,756
Speaker 1: at me blankly.

197
00:12:40,556 --> 00:12:42,396
Speaker 8: Like what, No, I love Elliott Smith?

198
00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:44,996
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I think a lot of the major mindor

199
00:12:45,076 --> 00:12:47,836
Speaker 1: borrowed chords he does that a lot. I hear that

200
00:12:47,956 --> 00:12:51,796
Speaker 1: in you, and that's Beatles, I guess ultimately. But yeah, okay,

201
00:12:51,876 --> 00:12:54,156
Speaker 1: we're really nerding out on chords, So maybe we should

202
00:12:54,196 --> 00:12:59,156
Speaker 1: back up. The new album is Evergreen. Tell me about

203
00:12:59,236 --> 00:13:00,276
Speaker 1: how it came about.

204
00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:05,116
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, it's a long process writing an album.

205
00:13:05,436 --> 00:13:09,036
Speaker 8: I pretty much started right after the last album came out,

206
00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:14,156
Speaker 8: So summer twenty twenty two is when I really started

207
00:13:14,156 --> 00:13:16,996
Speaker 8: getting into it. Changes, which you brought up earlier, is

208
00:13:16,996 --> 00:13:19,956
Speaker 8: a little older. Actually, I wrote that during making the

209
00:13:20,036 --> 00:13:22,916
Speaker 8: last album and said this is not gonna fit and

210
00:13:23,076 --> 00:13:24,036
Speaker 8: kind of kept it for later.

211
00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:26,836
Speaker 1: Now, are you the kind of writer who I'm sitting

212
00:13:26,916 --> 00:13:30,796
Speaker 1: down every day, you know, pencil, paper in hand, guitar

213
00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:33,716
Speaker 1: at the ready, to write for three hours.

214
00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:36,756
Speaker 8: I'm really not. I don't actually usually write anything down.

215
00:13:36,876 --> 00:13:40,116
Speaker 8: I don't kind of log anything. If I'm gonna log it,

216
00:13:40,156 --> 00:13:43,476
Speaker 8: it's gonna be like a quick demo that I just

217
00:13:43,596 --> 00:13:46,196
Speaker 8: have kind of done, and that's that's done.

218
00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:47,036
Speaker 1: You use your phone.

219
00:13:47,716 --> 00:13:50,916
Speaker 8: Uh no, I'll usually I have like a tape machine,

220
00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:53,756
Speaker 8: like I have like a four track task am like

221
00:13:53,796 --> 00:13:56,716
Speaker 8: a porta studio that I'll use and I'll just put

222
00:13:56,796 --> 00:14:01,236
Speaker 8: one mic and ta yeah, oh and I'll do yep.

223
00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:02,836
Speaker 8: I make tapes of my demos.

224
00:14:03,596 --> 00:14:04,036
Speaker 11: I like it.

225
00:14:04,196 --> 00:14:06,796
Speaker 8: I think I'm a very scattered person. I put them

226
00:14:06,836 --> 00:14:10,716
Speaker 8: into the computer obviously after where. But I like having

227
00:14:11,636 --> 00:14:15,116
Speaker 8: knowing that there's just a pile of like physical tapes

228
00:14:15,156 --> 00:14:17,556
Speaker 8: of all my stuff that I could go back to

229
00:14:17,716 --> 00:14:20,596
Speaker 8: if I lost something or anything like that.

230
00:14:20,836 --> 00:14:23,636
Speaker 1: But I didn't know you could even still buy those.

231
00:14:24,236 --> 00:14:24,796
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can.

232
00:14:24,996 --> 00:14:27,036
Speaker 8: You can buy cassettes. Yeah. No.

233
00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:28,956
Speaker 1: I even the old task because it.

234
00:14:29,036 --> 00:14:31,596
Speaker 8: Was oh yeah, no, there there, it was a used one.

235
00:14:32,116 --> 00:14:35,836
Speaker 1: It's not new, Yeah, because famously that's what Springsteen did Nebraska.

236
00:14:36,556 --> 00:14:39,276
Speaker 8: Yep, yeah, I'm from I mean, I'm from Nashville, so

237
00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:41,396
Speaker 8: there's a lot of that stuff floating around. I feel

238
00:14:41,396 --> 00:14:43,556
Speaker 8: like that's kind of something that a lot of people

239
00:14:43,676 --> 00:14:46,116
Speaker 8: had and nobody wants anymore in Nashville, so you can

240
00:14:46,676 --> 00:14:47,636
Speaker 8: you'll find a lot of those.

241
00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:52,876
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what spurred the writing of this album.

242
00:14:54,396 --> 00:14:58,636
Speaker 8: Most of the songs are about just a loss that

243
00:14:58,716 --> 00:15:01,276
Speaker 8: I had in my life and kind of going through

244
00:15:01,356 --> 00:15:04,276
Speaker 8: that process. They're not all about that, but there's a

245
00:15:04,356 --> 00:15:08,036
Speaker 8: lot of that in the record, and I think that

246
00:15:08,156 --> 00:15:11,196
Speaker 8: was really what kicks did you know? It's it's time

247
00:15:11,236 --> 00:15:14,436
Speaker 8: to write about something different. I think every album, even

248
00:15:14,436 --> 00:15:18,276
Speaker 8: if there's similarities, you know, you have all these themes

249
00:15:18,316 --> 00:15:21,356
Speaker 8: and these ideas that you're stuck on for a while,

250
00:15:21,476 --> 00:15:24,476
Speaker 8: and it takes time after the album is finished being

251
00:15:24,516 --> 00:15:28,996
Speaker 8: made to kind of get your head off of writing

252
00:15:29,076 --> 00:15:32,036
Speaker 8: more stuff that fits with this idea and move on

253
00:15:32,156 --> 00:15:36,196
Speaker 8: to something new, even sonically, like just kind of what

254
00:15:36,316 --> 00:15:39,196
Speaker 8: kind of vibe you're wanting? And em was the first

255
00:15:39,196 --> 00:15:41,636
Speaker 8: song that I wrote for this album, and I think

256
00:15:41,716 --> 00:15:45,076
Speaker 8: it really felt like fresh and new compared to what

257
00:15:45,196 --> 00:15:47,476
Speaker 8: I had been doing, and it was very clear to

258
00:15:47,636 --> 00:15:49,556
Speaker 8: me what I was going to be doing for the

259
00:15:49,636 --> 00:15:50,596
Speaker 8: next little bit of time.

260
00:15:51,956 --> 00:15:54,196
Speaker 1: Was it a conscious thought, I've got to write about

261
00:15:54,236 --> 00:15:54,716
Speaker 1: this loss.

262
00:15:55,636 --> 00:16:00,076
Speaker 8: No, Honestly, I don't think writing is ever conscious for me.

263
00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:03,596
Speaker 8: I think, you know, I sit around, I play guitar,

264
00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:07,716
Speaker 8: and I don't really like to trying to think of

265
00:16:07,796 --> 00:16:10,596
Speaker 8: how to the nicest word to put it, but I

266
00:16:10,756 --> 00:16:13,196
Speaker 8: just like, I don't want to sit around and shred

267
00:16:13,356 --> 00:16:16,436
Speaker 8: or learn other riffs or do stuff like that. I

268
00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:17,956
Speaker 8: don't really do that. I just sit around and I

269
00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:21,156
Speaker 8: play chords, and if I find something I like, I

270
00:16:21,236 --> 00:16:24,076
Speaker 8: start writing a song with it. And I think the

271
00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:28,876
Speaker 8: music inspires the you know, the theme of the song,

272
00:16:28,996 --> 00:16:32,476
Speaker 8: the ideas behind the song, you get from music itself.

273
00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:34,876
Speaker 8: You get a feeling and you can move off of that.

274
00:16:36,156 --> 00:16:39,556
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the sound on this album, and for

275
00:16:39,676 --> 00:16:44,116
Speaker 1: people who haven't heard your previous album sometimes forever they should.

276
00:16:44,276 --> 00:16:46,996
Speaker 1: First of all, thanks, but it's a very lush album

277
00:16:47,036 --> 00:16:50,436
Speaker 1: with a lot of studio effects, a lot of production.

278
00:16:51,476 --> 00:16:53,956
Speaker 1: This one is is lush, but in a different way.

279
00:16:54,036 --> 00:16:56,956
Speaker 1: It's got beautiful string arrangements, and I don't know how

280
00:16:57,036 --> 00:17:01,636
Speaker 1: much you had to do with those particularly, but it

281
00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:05,516
Speaker 1: feels a little more austere, a little more direct maybe

282
00:17:05,556 --> 00:17:08,316
Speaker 1: than the previous album. What was the feeling you wanted

283
00:17:08,396 --> 00:17:08,996
Speaker 1: from the record?

284
00:17:09,956 --> 00:17:12,196
Speaker 8: I wanted that, honestly. I wanted it to feel direct.

285
00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:16,076
Speaker 8: I think it being something really personal. I found that

286
00:17:16,156 --> 00:17:20,836
Speaker 8: the last album was not unpersonal, but it wasn't as

287
00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:23,036
Speaker 8: personal as some of my work has been in the past.

288
00:17:23,356 --> 00:17:26,116
Speaker 8: And writing this album just felt like when I was

289
00:17:26,996 --> 00:17:30,276
Speaker 8: I don't know, seventeen and writing songs to put on

290
00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:33,716
Speaker 8: band camp, and it was very tender and intimate in

291
00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:35,556
Speaker 8: a way that was a little bit uncomfortable. Like at

292
00:17:35,596 --> 00:17:38,276
Speaker 8: that point in time, I didn't really want to share

293
00:17:38,436 --> 00:17:41,636
Speaker 8: music with people. I knew I might post it on Twitter,

294
00:17:41,716 --> 00:17:43,796
Speaker 8: but I was not gonna publicize it.

295
00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:45,716
Speaker 1: This is when you were seventeen.

296
00:17:45,836 --> 00:17:48,476
Speaker 8: Yeah, when I was first starting like soccer mommy stuff

297
00:17:48,556 --> 00:17:51,436
Speaker 8: and posting on band camp, it was very it was

298
00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:54,716
Speaker 8: kind of secretive and private because it felt really personal.

299
00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:56,796
Speaker 8: And it felt like that again, you know, it felt

300
00:17:56,876 --> 00:18:03,156
Speaker 8: really really straightforward and personal, and the songs themselves, I

301
00:18:03,276 --> 00:18:06,236
Speaker 8: just wanted it to be like that at the center,

302
00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:09,756
Speaker 8: that really basic stripped back version like what I just played.

303
00:18:10,396 --> 00:18:12,276
Speaker 8: I wanted that to be at the core of everything

304
00:18:12,596 --> 00:18:15,716
Speaker 8: for every song, and there to be you know, accompaniment

305
00:18:15,836 --> 00:18:19,956
Speaker 8: around it to help it blossom a bit. But I

306
00:18:20,036 --> 00:18:23,756
Speaker 8: wanted to feel, yeah, just like light and airy and

307
00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:27,156
Speaker 8: remind me of music that makes me feel like lifted

308
00:18:27,316 --> 00:18:31,996
Speaker 8: and you know, feel emotional, but like light, like I'm

309
00:18:32,196 --> 00:18:35,436
Speaker 8: riding the wind a little bit, which for me is

310
00:18:35,556 --> 00:18:39,516
Speaker 8: like Emmy Lou Harris, Joni Mitchell, like that kind of

311
00:18:39,556 --> 00:18:41,676
Speaker 8: stuff I listen to all the time when I'm feeling

312
00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:46,156
Speaker 8: that way, or like Jankly like pop stuff that really

313
00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:49,516
Speaker 8: just kind of you can feel it it feels so light.

314
00:18:51,116 --> 00:18:54,036
Speaker 8: So the strings were part of that idea. I did

315
00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:57,836
Speaker 8: not arrange the strings. The person who played the strings

316
00:18:57,916 --> 00:19:00,796
Speaker 8: arranged the shrings and did an amazing job off of

317
00:19:00,956 --> 00:19:05,596
Speaker 8: like notes. You know, yeah, I really I wanted strings

318
00:19:05,636 --> 00:19:08,396
Speaker 8: and flute in particular on the record really really bad,

319
00:19:08,636 --> 00:19:11,876
Speaker 8: and I was very specific about that because I think

320
00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:15,036
Speaker 8: it's part of what pulled it together sonically. I think

321
00:19:15,076 --> 00:19:19,436
Speaker 8: if there had been since or like melotrons and things

322
00:19:19,556 --> 00:19:22,636
Speaker 8: like that, it would have just not had the same

323
00:19:22,876 --> 00:19:24,796
Speaker 8: feeling to it. It really needed to be that like

324
00:19:25,036 --> 00:19:29,636
Speaker 8: organic kind of sound that's a little bit imperfect. And

325
00:19:29,716 --> 00:19:33,356
Speaker 8: Ben the producer found a flute player and found Raven

326
00:19:33,476 --> 00:19:38,916
Speaker 8: who did the strings, who's in the UK, and he's amazing.

327
00:19:39,836 --> 00:19:40,036
Speaker 9: Yeah.

328
00:19:40,236 --> 00:19:43,356
Speaker 1: There, and there's very you know, particularly Evergreen, which is

329
00:19:43,436 --> 00:19:46,636
Speaker 1: the last song, has a very different string sound. I'm

330
00:19:46,636 --> 00:19:49,476
Speaker 1: not sure it's even a solo string, but it's violin.

331
00:19:49,556 --> 00:19:52,996
Speaker 1: But it's it's got really lovely textures throughout.

332
00:19:53,196 --> 00:19:55,916
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a haunting. I think we had mentioned like

333
00:19:56,036 --> 00:20:01,036
Speaker 8: Johnny Greenwood type of thing, and he really took to it.

334
00:20:01,156 --> 00:20:04,316
Speaker 8: It just sounds, you know, a little eerie, a little haunting.

335
00:20:04,396 --> 00:20:08,156
Speaker 8: Those kind of stretches between chords, I think really bring

336
00:20:08,236 --> 00:20:08,716
Speaker 8: it to life.

337
00:20:09,996 --> 00:20:12,756
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more from Soccer Mommy after

338
00:20:12,836 --> 00:20:18,836
Speaker 2: the break. We're back with Soccer Mommy.

339
00:20:20,076 --> 00:20:24,796
Speaker 1: So let's go back before you press send on band

340
00:20:24,916 --> 00:20:28,796
Speaker 1: camp or upload. I guess you're born in Switzerland, right,

341
00:20:29,116 --> 00:20:33,196
Speaker 1: but you grew up Nashville, Nashville, okay, and your was

342
00:20:33,276 --> 00:20:34,116
Speaker 1: your family musical?

343
00:20:35,996 --> 00:20:39,316
Speaker 8: You know, My parents are not super musical. My dad

344
00:20:39,436 --> 00:20:43,916
Speaker 8: does play guitars as like a hobby. My grandma was

345
00:20:43,956 --> 00:20:46,636
Speaker 8: a pianist, but I didn't really know her, so I

346
00:20:46,756 --> 00:20:51,356
Speaker 8: definitely didn't get it from family, you know, forcing me

347
00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:52,996
Speaker 8: to do it or anything. I was kind of the

348
00:20:53,036 --> 00:20:55,116
Speaker 8: first one in the family when I was really young

349
00:20:55,196 --> 00:20:57,236
Speaker 8: to be like, I want to play music, and then

350
00:20:57,276 --> 00:20:58,596
Speaker 8: all my siblings kind of did too.

351
00:20:59,316 --> 00:21:01,076
Speaker 1: Are you where are you in the family order?

352
00:21:01,316 --> 00:21:03,716
Speaker 8: I'm middle, I have an older sister and I have

353
00:21:03,796 --> 00:21:04,396
Speaker 8: a younger brother.

354
00:21:04,636 --> 00:21:09,636
Speaker 1: Okay, And then what was there a particular song or

355
00:21:10,476 --> 00:21:13,236
Speaker 1: memory you have of music growing up that piqued your interest?

356
00:21:14,556 --> 00:21:16,636
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't. I don't even know what started it,

357
00:21:16,756 --> 00:21:19,036
Speaker 8: to be honest, I know that the first music that

358
00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:22,316
Speaker 8: I was listening to was like my dad's CD collection,

359
00:21:22,516 --> 00:21:27,236
Speaker 8: which was, like, we all really liked The Who and Springsteen,

360
00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:30,236
Speaker 8: so he had CDs of that, like greatest Hits that

361
00:21:30,276 --> 00:21:32,076
Speaker 8: we would listen to a lot. And I always really

362
00:21:32,116 --> 00:21:34,316
Speaker 8: loved Springsteen. I still do love Springsteen.

363
00:21:35,516 --> 00:21:36,956
Speaker 1: Do you love Springsteen from your music?

364
00:21:37,276 --> 00:21:37,476
Speaker 9: Yeah?

365
00:21:37,516 --> 00:21:40,796
Speaker 8: I know it's not it's not exactly an obvious pull,

366
00:21:40,876 --> 00:21:44,196
Speaker 8: but I think he's just such an amazing songwriter. Honestly,

367
00:21:44,276 --> 00:21:49,076
Speaker 8: I think he for something that's kind of like macho, like,

368
00:21:50,156 --> 00:21:54,156
Speaker 8: kind of like greaser manly energy. A lot of the time,

369
00:21:54,316 --> 00:21:57,156
Speaker 8: his lyrics can be so beautiful. I think they paint

370
00:21:57,276 --> 00:22:01,276
Speaker 8: such vivid pictures in my mind of like stuff that

371
00:22:01,836 --> 00:22:07,796
Speaker 8: just reflects I think American you know, small town not

372
00:22:07,876 --> 00:22:11,276
Speaker 8: even small town, but just not big city type of life,

373
00:22:11,436 --> 00:22:15,036
Speaker 8: like just certain like normalcies that really, you know, paint

374
00:22:15,076 --> 00:22:15,876
Speaker 8: a beautiful picture.

375
00:22:16,236 --> 00:22:19,316
Speaker 1: Was there a song in particular that that you liked

376
00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:19,556
Speaker 1: of his?

377
00:22:20,436 --> 00:22:23,196
Speaker 8: I've always loved I'm on Fire. When I was younger,

378
00:22:23,236 --> 00:22:25,956
Speaker 8: I loved thunder Road. I still love that one. I

379
00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:30,916
Speaker 8: think the entire like opening lyrical part of that song

380
00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:35,236
Speaker 8: is absolutely amazing. But yeah, it was a lot of hits,

381
00:22:35,316 --> 00:22:37,756
Speaker 8: so it was like the hit boring in the USA,

382
00:22:37,876 --> 00:22:41,276
Speaker 8: you know, hearing that kind of stuff. Hungry Heart was great,

383
00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:44,516
Speaker 8: but but yeah, I always loved that kind of stuff.

384
00:22:44,556 --> 00:22:46,236
Speaker 8: I think that was the first thing that really made

385
00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:50,596
Speaker 8: me love music that in like early two thousand's pop

386
00:22:51,316 --> 00:22:53,756
Speaker 8: from I was like five or six years old, so

387
00:22:54,316 --> 00:22:55,556
Speaker 8: that kind of stuff was really big.

388
00:22:55,756 --> 00:22:57,876
Speaker 1: And what was what was your first instrument?

389
00:22:58,356 --> 00:22:58,676
Speaker 8: Guitar?

390
00:22:59,116 --> 00:23:01,916
Speaker 1: It was okay, yeah, And did you take lessons or

391
00:23:01,956 --> 00:23:03,356
Speaker 1: did you just sit down with one?

392
00:23:03,396 --> 00:23:06,876
Speaker 8: One day I sat started with me sitting down with one.

393
00:23:08,076 --> 00:23:13,076
Speaker 8: I had gone to a like charity concert for my

394
00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:16,316
Speaker 8: brother's preschool and gotten a toy guitar, and I played

395
00:23:16,356 --> 00:23:20,396
Speaker 8: that a lot. It sounded awful, and after enough time

396
00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:22,116
Speaker 8: my parents were like, okay, let's get like, you know,

397
00:23:22,156 --> 00:23:26,156
Speaker 8: a little baby who's to guitar? And I just loved it.

398
00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:30,276
Speaker 8: So I took lessons for a lot of my life,

399
00:23:30,396 --> 00:23:35,556
Speaker 8: you know, just casually took guitar lessons and just always

400
00:23:35,636 --> 00:23:39,276
Speaker 8: really liked it. But particularly for the songwriting. I liked

401
00:23:39,356 --> 00:23:41,876
Speaker 8: writing songs on it more than anything.

402
00:23:41,956 --> 00:23:42,996
Speaker 1: What were your first songs like?

403
00:23:44,596 --> 00:23:47,876
Speaker 8: My first song was called what the heck Is a Cowgirl?

404
00:23:49,396 --> 00:23:53,516
Speaker 8: And it was, you know, pretty much just a chorus

405
00:23:54,596 --> 00:23:59,276
Speaker 8: and me shrumming a open guitar with no chords basically,

406
00:23:59,516 --> 00:24:03,676
Speaker 8: but it was mostly nonsense, I would say. I by

407
00:24:03,716 --> 00:24:07,636
Speaker 8: the time I was like, I guess, like seven or eight,

408
00:24:07,836 --> 00:24:12,476
Speaker 8: I started playing with one of my friends who lived nearby,

409
00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:16,356
Speaker 8: like across the street and was a drummer, and we

410
00:24:16,476 --> 00:24:18,916
Speaker 8: were both very very young, but we would play songs

411
00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:20,996
Speaker 8: together that were kind of like pop rock.

412
00:24:21,236 --> 00:24:23,676
Speaker 1: I guess was there a moment where you thought, I

413
00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:26,676
Speaker 1: think this is more I want to do something, This

414
00:24:26,796 --> 00:24:27,556
Speaker 1: could be my life.

415
00:24:28,396 --> 00:24:30,476
Speaker 8: I always wanted to do it. I think I can't

416
00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:33,516
Speaker 8: remember a time where I didn't want to make music

417
00:24:33,556 --> 00:24:35,956
Speaker 8: for a living. But I think I gave it up

418
00:24:37,076 --> 00:24:39,236
Speaker 8: like the dream a little bit when I was probably

419
00:24:39,436 --> 00:24:43,796
Speaker 8: like maybe like sixteen. I think I just kind of

420
00:24:43,876 --> 00:24:46,876
Speaker 8: reached a point where I was like, what are the

421
00:24:46,956 --> 00:24:49,876
Speaker 8: odds of this just becoming like a career for me?

422
00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:54,276
Speaker 8: I just like to play music, and I just got

423
00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:56,916
Speaker 8: a little bit realistic about it and decided, you know,

424
00:24:56,956 --> 00:24:58,596
Speaker 8: I'm not going to go to college for music. I'm

425
00:24:58,596 --> 00:25:00,356
Speaker 8: not going to do that. I'm just gonna go for

426
00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:07,516
Speaker 8: a normal thing. And honestly, it wasn't depressing as it sounds, but.

427
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:09,036
Speaker 1: You're making it sound pretty.

428
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:10,796
Speaker 8: I think it was just it was just like I

429
00:25:10,916 --> 00:25:13,276
Speaker 8: can play music for the rest of my life, no

430
00:25:13,436 --> 00:25:17,036
Speaker 8: matter what. Like I can do this for myself regardless.

431
00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:20,716
Speaker 8: And around the time that I was graduating from high school,

432
00:25:20,716 --> 00:25:24,236
Speaker 8: I particularly was like, I'm going to start recording my

433
00:25:24,396 --> 00:25:27,636
Speaker 8: songs in a really basic way and putting them on

434
00:25:27,756 --> 00:25:31,396
Speaker 8: band camp just for me, just for fun, because it's

435
00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:33,236
Speaker 8: something I like doing, it's something I want to work at.

436
00:25:34,196 --> 00:25:37,556
Speaker 8: And there was no expectation of, you know, it becoming

437
00:25:37,716 --> 00:25:40,556
Speaker 8: what it eventually did. But I think that was good.

438
00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:43,276
Speaker 8: I didn't. I think it can be very defeating if

439
00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:45,716
Speaker 8: you if you really want to do something and you

440
00:25:45,876 --> 00:25:48,916
Speaker 8: really care about you know, music, and you're like dying

441
00:25:48,996 --> 00:25:51,956
Speaker 8: to do it for your life, and you get old enough,

442
00:25:51,996 --> 00:25:54,036
Speaker 8: we get to reach a point where you say, this

443
00:25:54,236 --> 00:25:56,916
Speaker 8: is not going to be more than, you know, just

444
00:25:57,036 --> 00:25:59,996
Speaker 8: a hobby and something that I love doing. It's I'm

445
00:25:59,996 --> 00:26:02,156
Speaker 8: gonna have to work at something else.

446
00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:05,196
Speaker 1: You thought you'd get the disappointment out of the way early, Yeah, like.

447
00:26:05,236 --> 00:26:08,956
Speaker 8: Crush it before. Like I'm not gonna like spend years

448
00:26:09,156 --> 00:26:15,196
Speaker 8: of my life hoping crush it. Crush it early, you know,

449
00:26:15,316 --> 00:26:17,396
Speaker 8: and then if it happens great, it doesn't mean you

450
00:26:17,476 --> 00:26:20,676
Speaker 8: have to stop. I think that you know, being realistic

451
00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:24,076
Speaker 8: about it. I think it is to an extent. I think,

452
00:26:24,436 --> 00:26:30,036
Speaker 8: you know, being real about your chances at success. It's

453
00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:32,476
Speaker 8: not about whether you're good it's something it's not. It's

454
00:26:32,556 --> 00:26:36,236
Speaker 8: just about if something you have to say is of

455
00:26:36,396 --> 00:26:38,556
Speaker 8: the moment, honestly, and it's it's a little bit of

456
00:26:38,676 --> 00:26:40,836
Speaker 8: luck and it's a lot of hard work. You can

457
00:26:40,876 --> 00:26:44,196
Speaker 8: do all that hard work and still be saying, you know,

458
00:26:44,356 --> 00:26:45,756
Speaker 8: I need to get a job.

459
00:26:47,236 --> 00:26:47,356
Speaker 4: Uh.

460
00:26:48,396 --> 00:26:50,636
Speaker 1: But then what what was the impulse to put stuff

461
00:26:50,716 --> 00:26:51,636
Speaker 1: up on band camp?

462
00:26:52,596 --> 00:26:54,596
Speaker 8: I think it was just for fun. Honestly, I got

463
00:26:54,716 --> 00:26:58,716
Speaker 8: like a back to the task that point. I was

464
00:26:58,796 --> 00:27:01,756
Speaker 8: not in a band. I've never really been in a

465
00:27:01,836 --> 00:27:07,716
Speaker 8: band besides my very young two piece childhood band. But

466
00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:11,196
Speaker 8: I just wanted to, you know, I was writing songs

467
00:27:11,236 --> 00:27:13,716
Speaker 8: and I got for I think for Christmas or something.

468
00:27:13,796 --> 00:27:16,836
Speaker 8: My dad gave me one of the Porta Studio task

469
00:27:16,916 --> 00:27:20,636
Speaker 8: ams that is digital, which makes it really easy to

470
00:27:20,676 --> 00:27:23,076
Speaker 8: transfer to using the tape one because they're very similar,

471
00:27:24,196 --> 00:27:26,836
Speaker 8: but it's a digital one, which those are really great.

472
00:27:26,876 --> 00:27:29,316
Speaker 8: They have like internal mics and them, so you can

473
00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:32,796
Speaker 8: just record with it onto there and go for it.

474
00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:35,196
Speaker 8: You can sing into the into the thing, you can

475
00:27:35,476 --> 00:27:36,276
Speaker 8: pop it in front.

476
00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:38,636
Speaker 1: Of your You could have done all that just with

477
00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:40,756
Speaker 1: garage band though, or yeah you could.

478
00:27:40,796 --> 00:27:43,796
Speaker 8: But I like working on not a computer. I don't

479
00:27:43,836 --> 00:27:46,716
Speaker 8: really like. I don't know why something about the computer.

480
00:27:46,796 --> 00:27:49,476
Speaker 8: There's too many options of things to do to something.

481
00:27:50,196 --> 00:27:54,116
Speaker 8: I'm like, let's just get the raw sound sounding pretty,

482
00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:56,036
Speaker 8: you know, pretty good. Let's see if we can make

483
00:27:56,076 --> 00:27:59,556
Speaker 8: it away that we like to hear it and deal

484
00:27:59,596 --> 00:28:02,036
Speaker 8: with it, because I think I get I get crazy

485
00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:04,676
Speaker 8: if I start pulling up eques and all this stuff.

486
00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:05,756
Speaker 8: I start losing my mind.

487
00:28:06,716 --> 00:28:09,156
Speaker 1: See it's nice. Having scarcity is good.

488
00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:11,236
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think so. I mean at the time, I

489
00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:14,316
Speaker 8: just wanted to get the songs in a place where

490
00:28:14,436 --> 00:28:18,116
Speaker 8: somebody could listen to them, not in this you know,

491
00:28:18,396 --> 00:28:21,596
Speaker 8: produced type of space. I just wanted to do something

492
00:28:21,716 --> 00:28:25,356
Speaker 8: really simple, pop them up and kind of have them

493
00:28:25,396 --> 00:28:28,396
Speaker 8: for me, like, you know, these songs are more than

494
00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:30,516
Speaker 8: just something I played for a while and then never

495
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:32,796
Speaker 8: thought of again after a couple of years.

496
00:28:33,036 --> 00:28:34,876
Speaker 1: How many tracks would be on those early.

497
00:28:36,316 --> 00:28:42,236
Speaker 8: I'd usually pop like four or five onto a drop,

498
00:28:43,516 --> 00:28:46,396
Speaker 8: so to speak. I deleted a lot of them at

499
00:28:46,476 --> 00:28:48,716
Speaker 8: this point, but I kept up some of the stuff

500
00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:51,756
Speaker 8: where I was like a little bit more, had been

501
00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:53,436
Speaker 8: doing it a little more and was a little more

502
00:28:53,476 --> 00:28:55,916
Speaker 8: proud of it, and kind of felt like, oh, I'm

503
00:28:55,956 --> 00:28:58,116
Speaker 8: going to put up like something that feels more like

504
00:28:58,156 --> 00:29:02,476
Speaker 8: an EP or something rather than just throwing things up

505
00:29:02,636 --> 00:29:05,636
Speaker 8: really quick, because I would turn it around. I'd record something,

506
00:29:06,836 --> 00:29:08,716
Speaker 8: you know, put it into the computer and just throw

507
00:29:08,756 --> 00:29:11,756
Speaker 8: it on the internet, just because I was like excited

508
00:29:11,756 --> 00:29:14,596
Speaker 8: about it, I guess. But yeah, once people were listening,

509
00:29:14,716 --> 00:29:17,396
Speaker 8: I was like, let's get that old stuff hid in

510
00:29:17,476 --> 00:29:17,956
Speaker 8: a way.

511
00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:21,716
Speaker 1: The early years you only have early years. Of course

512
00:29:21,756 --> 00:29:24,676
Speaker 1: you're twenty six, so twenty seven.

513
00:29:24,516 --> 00:29:25,396
Speaker 8: Well getting up there.

514
00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:28,516
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're early. You're over it now.

515
00:29:29,076 --> 00:29:29,236
Speaker 6: You know.

516
00:29:29,396 --> 00:29:32,356
Speaker 1: One of the great things about listening to all your music,

517
00:29:32,436 --> 00:29:35,956
Speaker 1: but this record particularly, is you know, there are those

518
00:29:36,036 --> 00:29:38,996
Speaker 1: writers who the guitar is a vehicle for their songs.

519
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:42,836
Speaker 1: Like I need to say something, guitar or a piano

520
00:29:43,316 --> 00:29:45,236
Speaker 1: is the way to do it. And then there are

521
00:29:45,276 --> 00:29:48,676
Speaker 1: people who just like guitar sounds and who the sound

522
00:29:48,756 --> 00:29:51,556
Speaker 1: of it kind of drives them. And a lot of

523
00:29:51,596 --> 00:29:54,036
Speaker 1: the bands I grew up listening to, like, particularly Well

524
00:29:54,196 --> 00:29:59,596
Speaker 1: Ram the Smiths particularly, fall into that category. They just

525
00:30:00,156 --> 00:30:02,436
Speaker 1: they clearly just love the sound of a guitar and

526
00:30:02,556 --> 00:30:05,396
Speaker 1: that's what drives the sort of songs. When did you

527
00:30:05,476 --> 00:30:08,436
Speaker 1: get your first electric I think I.

528
00:30:08,516 --> 00:30:10,996
Speaker 8: Was even or eight. I got one of those baby

529
00:30:11,156 --> 00:30:14,516
Speaker 8: strats you may have seen. I had a baby strat,

530
00:30:16,556 --> 00:30:20,396
Speaker 8: And yeah, honestly, I prefer electric in the long run.

531
00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:23,516
Speaker 8: I write with acoustic though usually just because you know,

532
00:30:23,596 --> 00:30:25,876
Speaker 8: I'm just sitting there playing guitar. It's easier to hear

533
00:30:25,956 --> 00:30:29,436
Speaker 8: things with an acoustic but I do, just I do

534
00:30:29,636 --> 00:30:31,436
Speaker 8: love the sounds. I think that if you're going to

535
00:30:31,476 --> 00:30:35,556
Speaker 8: go in the studio and record something. Why not be

536
00:30:35,916 --> 00:30:39,396
Speaker 8: particular about everything, every sound you're making, everything that you're recording,

537
00:30:39,476 --> 00:30:42,396
Speaker 8: and you can make something simple and also put a

538
00:30:42,436 --> 00:30:45,116
Speaker 8: lot of thought and effort into the sounds of everything.

539
00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:48,156
Speaker 8: And that's like you only get to do that every

540
00:30:48,196 --> 00:30:50,716
Speaker 8: couple of years, go in and record, Like you got

541
00:30:50,796 --> 00:30:51,556
Speaker 8: to make the most of it.

542
00:30:51,916 --> 00:30:54,916
Speaker 1: Now, are you? Are you the kind that that fiddles

543
00:30:54,956 --> 00:30:58,236
Speaker 1: with you have to have absolutely the right pedal and

544
00:30:58,396 --> 00:31:01,076
Speaker 1: this isn't quite right you know that has all the

545
00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:03,596
Speaker 1: kind of paraphernalia that goes with it.

546
00:31:04,276 --> 00:31:07,756
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, definitely. I think that you've got to get

547
00:31:07,796 --> 00:31:10,556
Speaker 8: into that kind of stuff really, Like, you know, there

548
00:31:10,756 --> 00:31:13,716
Speaker 8: there are some sounds that, like even on this album,

549
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:16,916
Speaker 8: for example, like electric guitar sounds. A lot of my

550
00:31:17,036 --> 00:31:19,596
Speaker 8: rhythm tracks are very simple. It's just like through a

551
00:31:20,396 --> 00:31:23,316
Speaker 8: old like twin amp and it's got some reverb on it.

552
00:31:24,956 --> 00:31:29,036
Speaker 8: But when you're getting down to you know, more out

553
00:31:29,156 --> 00:31:32,796
Speaker 8: front like riffs and lines and you know, textures and

554
00:31:32,796 --> 00:31:34,316
Speaker 8: all this kind of stuff, you've got to take your

555
00:31:34,356 --> 00:31:36,636
Speaker 8: time on it because you're never just gonna pop on

556
00:31:36,836 --> 00:31:40,716
Speaker 8: your pedal and get something that's the most inspiring thing

557
00:31:40,756 --> 00:31:43,756
Speaker 8: in the world. You have to keep changing things and

558
00:31:43,876 --> 00:31:47,676
Speaker 8: messing with things and make sure you're throughout an album

559
00:31:47,796 --> 00:31:49,796
Speaker 8: that you have an idea for how you want everything

560
00:31:49,836 --> 00:31:52,476
Speaker 8: to sound. But you also have to change things song

561
00:31:52,516 --> 00:31:55,556
Speaker 8: to song. You can't just you know, set up all

562
00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:59,436
Speaker 8: the settings and record something. Otherwise it's every song is

563
00:31:59,476 --> 00:32:01,276
Speaker 8: gonna have the same sound to it.

564
00:32:02,116 --> 00:32:04,236
Speaker 1: Is there anything new you used on this album that

565
00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:05,956
Speaker 1: you found particularly.

566
00:32:05,596 --> 00:32:08,676
Speaker 8: Exciting, Yeah, there was a lot of There's a lot

567
00:32:08,676 --> 00:32:11,476
Speaker 8: of news. It was a new studio, so all of

568
00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:14,996
Speaker 8: the like outboard gear is basically new. We did a

569
00:32:15,036 --> 00:32:19,076
Speaker 8: lot of stuff with the Aged three thousand. I'm pretty

570
00:32:19,116 --> 00:32:21,636
Speaker 8: sure we used a lot of stuff off of that.

571
00:32:22,516 --> 00:32:25,836
Speaker 8: I was using a von Gone pedal called Ultra Shear

572
00:32:26,476 --> 00:32:30,396
Speaker 8: a lot just for really simple like REAVERB you know,

573
00:32:30,516 --> 00:32:34,716
Speaker 8: vibrato type sounds. That's really nice. It sounds very spring

574
00:32:34,996 --> 00:32:40,236
Speaker 8: like and it's really pretty. So was that there was

575
00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:44,396
Speaker 8: a lot of H nine's in the studio that were happening.

576
00:32:44,836 --> 00:32:45,996
Speaker 8: So there's a lot of that, a lot of H

577
00:32:46,116 --> 00:32:51,316
Speaker 8: nine chorus going on between everybody, but mostly Julian I

578
00:32:51,316 --> 00:32:51,996
Speaker 8: would say.

579
00:32:52,716 --> 00:32:55,116
Speaker 1: Hello, you didn't you play all? You played all the

580
00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:57,116
Speaker 1: guitars on this record, not all of them.

581
00:32:57,196 --> 00:33:02,556
Speaker 8: There's there's the guys around that too. Julian and Rodrigo

582
00:33:02,636 --> 00:33:05,356
Speaker 8: has a little bit of he's he's doing some guitar

583
00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:09,836
Speaker 8: and twelve string is usually Rodrigo because I hate twelve string.

584
00:33:11,236 --> 00:33:14,116
Speaker 8: It's like the most frustrating instrument in the entire world.

585
00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:16,596
Speaker 8: So he did a lot of the twelve string.

586
00:33:16,756 --> 00:33:18,196
Speaker 1: Do you play a twelve string electric?

587
00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:18,636
Speaker 5: Now?

588
00:33:19,316 --> 00:33:22,356
Speaker 8: I just think it's it's so annoying, it's so unbelievably annoyed.

589
00:33:22,356 --> 00:33:25,236
Speaker 8: They sound really cool, but I would rather have somebody

590
00:33:25,276 --> 00:33:28,156
Speaker 8: else have to deal with it than me. Just so

591
00:33:28,316 --> 00:33:30,876
Speaker 8: much tuning and my I feel like my ear gets

592
00:33:30,916 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 8: really sensitive at a certain point if I'm trying to

593
00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:37,676
Speaker 8: mess around with something that much. So, yeah, he's playing

594
00:33:37,676 --> 00:33:41,956
Speaker 8: some twelve string. Julian's playing a lot of like chorus

595
00:33:42,036 --> 00:33:46,836
Speaker 8: y guitar lines because we do some some live taking.

596
00:33:47,156 --> 00:33:50,716
Speaker 8: You know, there's a mixture of live takes and getting

597
00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:54,116
Speaker 8: kind of drums and bass down and building on top

598
00:33:54,156 --> 00:33:56,756
Speaker 8: of that, and a lot of pre production too. That

599
00:33:56,916 --> 00:34:00,276
Speaker 8: was kind of meshing in by the end and coming

600
00:34:00,316 --> 00:34:02,236
Speaker 8: in and saying this is here, We're gonna get rid

601
00:34:02,276 --> 00:34:03,756
Speaker 8: of this. We're going to get rid of that, you know,

602
00:34:03,916 --> 00:34:04,956
Speaker 8: kind of moving stuff around.

603
00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:06,836
Speaker 1: Do you like that process?

604
00:34:07,476 --> 00:34:07,636
Speaker 9: I do.

605
00:34:07,836 --> 00:34:10,756
Speaker 8: I love it. I love being able to make something

606
00:34:12,076 --> 00:34:14,676
Speaker 8: really exciting. I never do it at home. I never

607
00:34:14,756 --> 00:34:16,436
Speaker 8: do it on my own, but it's like so much

608
00:34:16,516 --> 00:34:19,396
Speaker 8: fun to be able to make something sound just like

609
00:34:20,796 --> 00:34:22,756
Speaker 8: exactly how you would want it to sound, and build

610
00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:25,076
Speaker 8: dynamics and all that kind of stuff. I think it's

611
00:34:25,156 --> 00:34:25,956
Speaker 8: really important.

612
00:34:27,156 --> 00:34:28,876
Speaker 2: After this last break, we'll be back with the rest

613
00:34:28,916 --> 00:34:36,676
Speaker 2: of Bruce Helm's conversation with Soccer Mommy. We're back with

614
00:34:36,836 --> 00:34:37,516
Speaker 2: Soccer Mommy.

615
00:34:38,556 --> 00:34:40,596
Speaker 1: This is terrible to admit, but sometimes, you know, I'll

616
00:34:40,636 --> 00:34:42,836
Speaker 1: go on YouTube and I'll watch guys talking about this

617
00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:45,556
Speaker 1: pedal or that pedal and the sounds they get out

618
00:34:45,596 --> 00:34:48,996
Speaker 1: of this, and honestly, everything sounds the same to me.

619
00:34:49,156 --> 00:34:51,996
Speaker 1: That's a terrible thing to admit. I appreciate on records

620
00:34:52,036 --> 00:34:55,036
Speaker 1: it's going to sound different, but often the sounds just

621
00:34:55,116 --> 00:34:57,436
Speaker 1: seem the difference to seem minuscule to me, And I

622
00:34:57,476 --> 00:34:59,876
Speaker 1: think if that were me, i'd be like, I don't

623
00:34:59,876 --> 00:35:00,436
Speaker 1: have time for this.

624
00:35:01,076 --> 00:35:04,036
Speaker 8: Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that does similar things,

625
00:35:04,156 --> 00:35:07,636
Speaker 8: I think for sure, but you can for you. I

626
00:35:07,716 --> 00:35:10,396
Speaker 8: think it's I just think with any pedal, especially if

627
00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:12,276
Speaker 8: you're gonna like watch a video or watch someone else

628
00:35:12,396 --> 00:35:14,036
Speaker 8: use it, you have to use it yourself and see

629
00:35:14,076 --> 00:35:16,356
Speaker 8: how you like it, because I think there's a lot

630
00:35:16,436 --> 00:35:19,116
Speaker 8: of you know, there's always a lot of editing you

631
00:35:19,196 --> 00:35:22,676
Speaker 8: can do on the pedal to find different ideas. And

632
00:35:23,596 --> 00:35:25,596
Speaker 8: I think something that's fun in the studio too is

633
00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:27,676
Speaker 8: being able to mess with a lot of pedals that

634
00:35:27,756 --> 00:35:29,916
Speaker 8: you would never or at least I would never be

635
00:35:30,036 --> 00:35:33,436
Speaker 8: using live. If you're playing like rhythm guitar chords and stuff,

636
00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:37,236
Speaker 8: you're not going to be using certain things that you

637
00:35:37,356 --> 00:35:40,876
Speaker 8: can then get really get weird with when you're in

638
00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:45,196
Speaker 8: the studio. I think, like my favorite weird pedal is

639
00:35:45,316 --> 00:35:51,556
Speaker 8: the microcosm by what are they called Hologram. Hologram has

640
00:35:51,636 --> 00:35:52,316
Speaker 8: some great stuff.

641
00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:53,876
Speaker 1: Did you use that on this album?

642
00:35:53,996 --> 00:35:54,316
Speaker 4: I did.

643
00:35:54,636 --> 00:35:57,396
Speaker 8: I didn't use it on guitar, I don't think from

644
00:35:57,476 --> 00:36:01,876
Speaker 8: my memory. I used it with a vocal mic, putting

645
00:36:01,916 --> 00:36:03,876
Speaker 8: it into the pedal, and it's like it kind of

646
00:36:04,076 --> 00:36:08,156
Speaker 8: makes loops, but they're like weird, very affected loops that

647
00:36:08,236 --> 00:36:11,236
Speaker 8: have you know, there's different options and different you know,

648
00:36:11,356 --> 00:36:14,916
Speaker 8: things that you can parameters, you can mess with, but

649
00:36:15,276 --> 00:36:18,076
Speaker 8: it's really great for making weird vocal loops, like you

650
00:36:18,196 --> 00:36:20,196
Speaker 8: can sing into it and you can turn the like

651
00:36:21,236 --> 00:36:22,796
Speaker 8: you know, the thing all the way up wet and

652
00:36:22,956 --> 00:36:25,156
Speaker 8: just have no none of the dry signal really still

653
00:36:25,196 --> 00:36:29,116
Speaker 8: in there and get these weird like echoed like vocal

654
00:36:29,356 --> 00:36:33,756
Speaker 8: like humming sounds that kind of make ambient textures.

655
00:36:34,396 --> 00:36:36,236
Speaker 1: Where did you use that on the on this record?

656
00:36:36,956 --> 00:36:40,676
Speaker 8: It's un lost. It's just like a ambiance in the

657
00:36:40,876 --> 00:36:44,356
Speaker 8: entire background where I like, I'm doing some humming that

658
00:36:44,516 --> 00:36:48,796
Speaker 8: kind of, you know, makes these like ghostly kind of sounds,

659
00:36:48,876 --> 00:36:52,756
Speaker 8: and then adding like whistling for sounds like birds a

660
00:36:52,756 --> 00:36:56,836
Speaker 8: little bit on the loops and stuff like that. And

661
00:36:56,996 --> 00:36:59,356
Speaker 8: I think on changes too, there's a there's a lot

662
00:36:59,396 --> 00:37:02,836
Speaker 8: of that that kind of makes this like dreamy, atmospheric

663
00:37:03,236 --> 00:37:05,956
Speaker 8: type of sound. I think that's the only two where

664
00:37:05,996 --> 00:37:07,956
Speaker 8: it's really coming out.

665
00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:11,276
Speaker 1: So I do want to talk about a couple of

666
00:37:11,356 --> 00:37:15,196
Speaker 1: the songs Driver, which starts with the great line I'm

667
00:37:15,236 --> 00:37:18,596
Speaker 1: a five foot four engine waiting to move. Tell me

668
00:37:18,636 --> 00:37:21,876
Speaker 1: about that song. It's got a great, very interesting melody,

669
00:37:22,636 --> 00:37:26,396
Speaker 1: big jumps in that for just like a major seventh,

670
00:37:26,436 --> 00:37:30,036
Speaker 1: I think, or something big vocal jumps, So tell me

671
00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:30,716
Speaker 1: about that song.

672
00:37:31,236 --> 00:37:33,036
Speaker 8: Yeah, that one is That's one of the ones that

673
00:37:33,196 --> 00:37:35,516
Speaker 8: is not kind of in the context of I guess

674
00:37:35,596 --> 00:37:38,836
Speaker 8: the entire album, but it's just like kind of a

675
00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:41,796
Speaker 8: fun one for me. I think I'm very spacey and

676
00:37:42,516 --> 00:37:44,636
Speaker 8: very all over the place a lot of the time.

677
00:37:44,916 --> 00:37:49,676
Speaker 8: And my partner is very grounding and you know, not

678
00:37:49,796 --> 00:37:51,556
Speaker 8: really as much like that, but really puts up with

679
00:37:51,596 --> 00:37:55,156
Speaker 8: it and tries to keep me on track with certain things.

680
00:37:55,196 --> 00:37:57,596
Speaker 8: And I think that's a really beautiful thing, and I

681
00:37:57,676 --> 00:38:00,476
Speaker 8: wanted to make it, you know, take one of these examples,

682
00:38:00,556 --> 00:38:03,396
Speaker 8: like driving. I can't count how many times I've been

683
00:38:03,476 --> 00:38:07,036
Speaker 8: driving and completely started going towards something that is not

684
00:38:07,236 --> 00:38:12,156
Speaker 8: where I'm going and realize literally, yeah, literally when I'm

685
00:38:12,196 --> 00:38:15,796
Speaker 8: driving driving down the road and pass my turn way

686
00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:18,316
Speaker 8: back and I don't even know where my brain has

687
00:38:18,396 --> 00:38:21,916
Speaker 8: decided we're going now, and kind of having someone in

688
00:38:21,996 --> 00:38:25,316
Speaker 8: the car to say, hey, which what root are you

689
00:38:25,396 --> 00:38:27,196
Speaker 8: taking right now? You know, which where are we going?

690
00:38:27,556 --> 00:38:30,116
Speaker 8: And being able to be brought back a little bit.

691
00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:33,796
Speaker 8: It's it's like, you know, such a goofy little little piece,

692
00:38:33,916 --> 00:38:36,956
Speaker 8: but it's I think it really pulls that that feeling

693
00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:39,876
Speaker 8: of like having someone with you to ground you and

694
00:38:40,476 --> 00:38:42,276
Speaker 8: you know, be that other half a little bit.

695
00:38:43,196 --> 00:38:46,116
Speaker 1: Hello. Arguably you're doing in the car just what you

696
00:38:46,196 --> 00:38:48,756
Speaker 1: do with the with the guitar, which is your messinger.

697
00:38:48,836 --> 00:38:52,396
Speaker 1: You're just just just wandering in a close state. Yeah, well,

698
00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:53,516
Speaker 1: isn't that true?

699
00:38:53,676 --> 00:38:55,636
Speaker 8: Pretty much? I do think so. I think it's like

700
00:38:55,716 --> 00:38:58,876
Speaker 8: you're just looking for just going in whatever direction it

701
00:38:58,916 --> 00:39:02,116
Speaker 8: takes you and looking for something exciting.

702
00:39:03,556 --> 00:39:05,356
Speaker 1: And some sunny day talk about that one.

703
00:39:06,356 --> 00:39:08,396
Speaker 8: Yeah, Actually, I wasn't sure if I was going to

704
00:39:08,436 --> 00:39:10,756
Speaker 8: bring that one into the studio, which seems crazy to

705
00:39:10,836 --> 00:39:13,876
Speaker 8: me now because I love how it turned out. But

706
00:39:13,996 --> 00:39:16,156
Speaker 8: that was one of the first songs we worked on

707
00:39:16,636 --> 00:39:19,516
Speaker 8: in the studio when we did like pre production, and

708
00:39:19,836 --> 00:39:23,436
Speaker 8: it really just kind of quickly took off and it

709
00:39:23,556 --> 00:39:27,036
Speaker 8: was so obvious where it was going to go, and

710
00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:30,516
Speaker 8: you know where it was going to lead In response

711
00:39:30,556 --> 00:39:31,996
Speaker 8: to the rest of the album. I think it's really

712
00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:36,876
Speaker 8: important to find those sonic ideas early on and then

713
00:39:36,956 --> 00:39:40,236
Speaker 8: be able to spread them across the album and kind

714
00:39:40,276 --> 00:39:42,556
Speaker 8: of figure out what you're wanting to do and do it.

715
00:39:43,036 --> 00:39:46,356
Speaker 8: And that was really instrumental I think for me personally,

716
00:39:46,436 --> 00:39:49,996
Speaker 8: it really has that lightness and that airiness, and it's

717
00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:53,876
Speaker 8: a little bit dreamy and it's soft, but it's also

718
00:39:53,996 --> 00:39:57,076
Speaker 8: kind of like it's like dreamy and when you look

719
00:39:57,076 --> 00:39:58,516
Speaker 8: at like a dream filter and there's a lot of

720
00:39:58,636 --> 00:40:02,156
Speaker 8: light and it's kind of like hazy but like blinding

721
00:40:02,236 --> 00:40:05,876
Speaker 8: a little bit. And Yeah, it was really exciting for

722
00:40:06,036 --> 00:40:09,076
Speaker 8: me with that song because I think that I was

723
00:40:09,276 --> 00:40:11,676
Speaker 8: unsure of how it would work with how many parts

724
00:40:11,716 --> 00:40:14,636
Speaker 8: there are. There's a lot of chords going on, and

725
00:40:14,676 --> 00:40:19,476
Speaker 8: there's a lot of sections that are different from each other. Yeah,

726
00:40:19,876 --> 00:40:23,796
Speaker 8: and I think sometimes blending those together can be difficult

727
00:40:23,996 --> 00:40:26,756
Speaker 8: in a studio setting, even if you can sit and

728
00:40:26,836 --> 00:40:29,276
Speaker 8: play it, going from part to part and making each

729
00:40:29,316 --> 00:40:31,916
Speaker 8: one feel special and interesting can be hard. But it

730
00:40:31,996 --> 00:40:34,996
Speaker 8: was seamless, was there.

731
00:40:34,996 --> 00:40:38,116
Speaker 1: Every temptation will take out this one, idea, will take

732
00:40:38,156 --> 00:40:39,516
Speaker 1: out the middle eight will.

733
00:40:40,436 --> 00:40:42,716
Speaker 8: No, no, I never will compromise.

734
00:40:43,596 --> 00:40:43,956
Speaker 1: I see.

735
00:40:44,716 --> 00:40:46,476
Speaker 8: There are certain things I would you know, in a

736
00:40:46,516 --> 00:40:50,196
Speaker 8: studio setting with a song edits that can be made, like,

737
00:40:50,876 --> 00:40:54,156
Speaker 8: you know, let's shorten this part. It's half this part

738
00:40:54,476 --> 00:40:56,836
Speaker 8: blah blah blah. But I think with a song like that,

739
00:40:57,396 --> 00:41:00,476
Speaker 8: every section it's so important and you can't cut it

740
00:41:00,516 --> 00:41:04,956
Speaker 8: in half really they're just like the weight that they're

741
00:41:04,996 --> 00:41:07,356
Speaker 8: laid out. It just wouldn't make sense, I think in

742
00:41:07,476 --> 00:41:10,956
Speaker 8: my brain at least to chop anything down. It like

743
00:41:11,036 --> 00:41:14,076
Speaker 8: all goes into the flow of everything.

744
00:41:15,036 --> 00:41:17,236
Speaker 1: Was that a song you wrote in bits and pieces

745
00:41:17,316 --> 00:41:19,916
Speaker 1: as well and then joined or did you write it

746
00:41:19,996 --> 00:41:21,356
Speaker 1: as a coherent whole.

747
00:41:21,916 --> 00:41:21,956
Speaker 6: No.

748
00:41:22,076 --> 00:41:26,116
Speaker 8: I wrote it as a whole, And I remember thinking

749
00:41:27,236 --> 00:41:29,356
Speaker 8: this is like I could hear it in my head

750
00:41:29,636 --> 00:41:31,276
Speaker 8: kind of what I was going to want out of it.

751
00:41:31,436 --> 00:41:33,876
Speaker 8: But I was trying to imagine if it was going

752
00:41:33,956 --> 00:41:37,676
Speaker 8: to be something that would feel really clunky. But I

753
00:41:37,796 --> 00:41:39,516
Speaker 8: ended up taking it in because I really liked it

754
00:41:39,876 --> 00:41:43,116
Speaker 8: and found it exciting. I'm always excited by a song.

755
00:41:43,196 --> 00:41:47,236
Speaker 8: And it has lots of different chord changes and turnarounds

756
00:41:47,556 --> 00:41:50,476
Speaker 8: that kind of bring everything from one place to another

757
00:41:50,556 --> 00:41:52,596
Speaker 8: and blend it in that kind of way.

758
00:41:52,716 --> 00:41:55,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got a very nice descending figure in the

759
00:41:56,316 --> 00:41:56,996
Speaker 1: in the chorus.

760
00:41:57,316 --> 00:41:58,156
Speaker 8: Yeah, that song.

761
00:41:58,396 --> 00:42:01,396
Speaker 1: But really, and you're right, it stretched out so when

762
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:02,956
Speaker 1: it comes it's very very satisfying.

763
00:42:03,076 --> 00:42:03,276
Speaker 2: Yeah.

764
00:42:03,996 --> 00:42:05,076
Speaker 1: And then what's the song about.

765
00:42:06,516 --> 00:42:10,516
Speaker 8: It's just kind of about feeling, you know, all of

766
00:42:10,636 --> 00:42:14,676
Speaker 8: this darkness surrounding the sadness and feeling kind of like

767
00:42:14,716 --> 00:42:16,876
Speaker 8: you're drowning in it a little bit and looking around

768
00:42:17,036 --> 00:42:19,636
Speaker 8: and not seeing I guess, the hope in the way out,

769
00:42:19,716 --> 00:42:25,636
Speaker 8: but clinging to the idea of positivity. I guess, like

770
00:42:25,756 --> 00:42:28,036
Speaker 8: having this shred of positivity and being like, you know,

771
00:42:28,196 --> 00:42:30,516
Speaker 8: this is not all there is, this is not all

772
00:42:30,556 --> 00:42:33,036
Speaker 8: there will ever be, and I know that it just

773
00:42:33,116 --> 00:42:34,956
Speaker 8: doesn't feel like it in the moment.

774
00:42:35,476 --> 00:42:38,396
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to you keep saying how you want

775
00:42:38,476 --> 00:42:41,036
Speaker 1: to lightness in this record, because there's a lot of

776
00:42:41,076 --> 00:42:43,996
Speaker 1: references to light in your lyrics, and that one is

777
00:42:44,036 --> 00:42:45,836
Speaker 1: the trick of the Light Won't Keep Me Down. I

778
00:42:45,876 --> 00:42:47,796
Speaker 1: thought it was a very nice light keep me warm.

779
00:42:47,836 --> 00:42:50,876
Speaker 1: Pardon me, I can't read my own writing. Trick of

780
00:42:50,916 --> 00:42:55,436
Speaker 1: the Light won't keep Me warm? What image did that?

781
00:42:55,676 --> 00:42:56,556
Speaker 1: How did that come.

782
00:42:57,916 --> 00:43:00,836
Speaker 8: For me? It was like the image of laying in bed,

783
00:43:01,676 --> 00:43:06,356
Speaker 8: you know, tired, worn down, no motivation to do anything,

784
00:43:06,956 --> 00:43:11,476
Speaker 8: and seeing like shadows and tricks tricks of the light,

785
00:43:11,636 --> 00:43:14,996
Speaker 8: like shapes kind of just stretched out on the ceiling

786
00:43:15,036 --> 00:43:17,676
Speaker 8: from lamps and the light outside and all this kind

787
00:43:17,676 --> 00:43:20,876
Speaker 8: of stuff, and kind of letting your imagination run free

788
00:43:20,996 --> 00:43:24,516
Speaker 8: a little bit, or like even just a feeling of

789
00:43:25,236 --> 00:43:28,476
Speaker 8: I think a lot of us have experienced, you know,

790
00:43:28,756 --> 00:43:31,116
Speaker 8: being at night and thinking you see a shadow in

791
00:43:31,116 --> 00:43:34,596
Speaker 8: the corner and it's scaring you. But that kind of

792
00:43:34,596 --> 00:43:36,636
Speaker 8: feeling but almost like in a you know, you can

793
00:43:36,756 --> 00:43:41,196
Speaker 8: convince yourself that something is something else even if you

794
00:43:41,276 --> 00:43:44,236
Speaker 8: know it's not. It's like a bit of a trick

795
00:43:44,316 --> 00:43:44,756
Speaker 8: on your brain.

796
00:43:45,156 --> 00:43:47,076
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if you did, if you grew

797
00:43:47,156 --> 00:43:48,836
Speaker 1: up in a house with a lot of trees around,

798
00:43:49,396 --> 00:43:52,476
Speaker 1: but that's always when I was growing up, we had

799
00:43:52,516 --> 00:43:53,956
Speaker 1: a lot of window, we had a lot of trees,

800
00:43:53,996 --> 00:43:57,196
Speaker 1: and so yeah, having the trees always sway in the breeze,

801
00:43:57,196 --> 00:44:02,356
Speaker 1: it just creates this effect inside you just think there's

802
00:44:02,396 --> 00:44:03,196
Speaker 1: always something there.

803
00:44:03,596 --> 00:44:06,356
Speaker 8: Yeah, it just creates a feeling of you're not alone.

804
00:44:06,436 --> 00:44:10,476
Speaker 8: And I feel that a lot of the time. Like

805
00:44:10,716 --> 00:44:14,716
Speaker 8: I'm not a religious person, but I do sometimes you

806
00:44:14,756 --> 00:44:18,276
Speaker 8: can just feel like energy sometimes around you, I think,

807
00:44:18,396 --> 00:44:22,196
Speaker 8: and especially if you lose someone, I think it can

808
00:44:22,276 --> 00:44:26,196
Speaker 8: be comforting to feel their energy still in places or

809
00:44:27,156 --> 00:44:30,076
Speaker 8: in actions things you do. Feeling that the kind of

810
00:44:30,116 --> 00:44:34,236
Speaker 8: ghost of that it's not haunting in a bad way.

811
00:44:34,316 --> 00:44:38,476
Speaker 8: It's like a positive feeling of you know, even if

812
00:44:38,516 --> 00:44:43,716
Speaker 8: somebody is gone, there's always parts of people left around

813
00:44:43,716 --> 00:44:47,196
Speaker 8: the world that just kind of remind you of a

814
00:44:47,276 --> 00:44:48,836
Speaker 8: certain person. You can feel that again.

815
00:44:50,636 --> 00:44:55,196
Speaker 1: Very different song is Dreaming of Falling, which seems a

816
00:44:55,236 --> 00:44:56,156
Speaker 1: little more suicidal.

817
00:44:56,476 --> 00:44:58,956
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a little it's a little more off the edge.

818
00:44:59,036 --> 00:45:01,636
Speaker 8: I think I actually had COVID when I wrote that song,

819
00:45:02,436 --> 00:45:05,236
Speaker 8: and I was very sick, and I think that added

820
00:45:05,356 --> 00:45:10,156
Speaker 8: a sense of impending doom to the situation. But yeah,

821
00:45:10,196 --> 00:45:14,836
Speaker 8: it really was a moment of like, I don't care,

822
00:45:14,916 --> 00:45:18,116
Speaker 8: there is no looking forward, and there is, you know,

823
00:45:18,276 --> 00:45:22,276
Speaker 8: being stuck in this place of being needing to move forward,

824
00:45:22,556 --> 00:45:25,796
Speaker 8: needing to move on with your life, and not even

825
00:45:25,836 --> 00:45:28,596
Speaker 8: just needing to you are because there's no other possibility,

826
00:45:30,196 --> 00:45:33,036
Speaker 8: and also clinging to the past, which you can never

827
00:45:33,116 --> 00:45:35,796
Speaker 8: go back to you and even if you could, it

828
00:45:35,836 --> 00:45:39,796
Speaker 8: would it wouldn't be, you know, there anymore waiting for you.

829
00:45:41,476 --> 00:45:45,196
Speaker 8: So it's yeah, that kind of stuck, purgatory feeling of

830
00:45:45,276 --> 00:45:48,076
Speaker 8: being stuck in between two things and hating change. But

831
00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:51,156
Speaker 8: also there's no choice in taking the change or not

832
00:45:51,316 --> 00:45:53,076
Speaker 8: taking it. It's no option.

833
00:45:54,156 --> 00:45:56,356
Speaker 1: It also feels a little bit like wanting to end.

834
00:45:56,316 --> 00:46:00,876
Speaker 8: It all though no, definitely it's got this horrible feeling

835
00:46:00,956 --> 00:46:05,756
Speaker 8: of the rest of life is less in a sense,

836
00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:10,716
Speaker 8: which I think is something that I've always struggled with.

837
00:46:10,836 --> 00:46:13,916
Speaker 8: I think with losing things or losing bits from the past,

838
00:46:14,076 --> 00:46:17,996
Speaker 8: and even simple stuff like growing up and moving on

839
00:46:18,156 --> 00:46:21,596
Speaker 8: from people in a not you know, not difficult way,

840
00:46:21,636 --> 00:46:25,196
Speaker 8: but just naturally and looking back and seeing that you

841
00:46:25,236 --> 00:46:28,116
Speaker 8: don't have these things anymore and that your life is

842
00:46:28,236 --> 00:46:32,316
Speaker 8: kind of ever changing, and it's like, I think, with

843
00:46:32,596 --> 00:46:35,436
Speaker 8: a situation like that, it can feel very much like

844
00:46:36,356 --> 00:46:38,516
Speaker 8: you're just on a new path now in life and

845
00:46:38,636 --> 00:46:41,476
Speaker 8: you have to do it and there's no choices, and

846
00:46:43,436 --> 00:46:46,116
Speaker 8: you know, it's depressing. It's a depressing idea to not

847
00:46:46,276 --> 00:46:50,636
Speaker 8: have the uh, I guess control over over your life

848
00:46:50,756 --> 00:46:54,036
Speaker 8: a little bit and over changes and over making decisions

849
00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:58,356
Speaker 8: and letting those things happen slowly and naturally. I think

850
00:46:58,516 --> 00:47:01,436
Speaker 8: when there's usually change in your life, it fades and

851
00:47:01,556 --> 00:47:04,076
Speaker 8: it moves and you don't even realize when it's happened.

852
00:47:05,556 --> 00:47:07,596
Speaker 8: And in as such a situation like that, it's like

853
00:47:07,756 --> 00:47:12,076
Speaker 8: sudden and you're just cut off from where you were

854
00:47:12,996 --> 00:47:15,676
Speaker 8: and you're changed as a person, but you can't there's

855
00:47:15,716 --> 00:47:18,596
Speaker 8: no going back to the old person you were, and

856
00:47:18,676 --> 00:47:21,836
Speaker 8: there's also you know, you don't really want to let

857
00:47:21,916 --> 00:47:22,116
Speaker 8: go of.

858
00:47:22,156 --> 00:47:26,396
Speaker 1: It either, but you see someone who you know. You've

859
00:47:26,476 --> 00:47:28,876
Speaker 1: put out a lot of demos, live records, You've put

860
00:47:28,916 --> 00:47:32,476
Speaker 1: out a new album every two years, which these days

861
00:47:32,596 --> 00:47:36,396
Speaker 1: is a healthy pace. You went to school in New York.

862
00:47:36,436 --> 00:47:38,876
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about that. You went to NYU for

863
00:47:38,916 --> 00:47:44,156
Speaker 1: a couple of years and studied music business, and you

864
00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:47,756
Speaker 1: seem to make a lot of like did your parents

865
00:47:47,796 --> 00:47:52,476
Speaker 1: help you with contracts and lawyers or because you you know,

866
00:47:53,076 --> 00:47:58,076
Speaker 1: you were signed very early, someone else would look at

867
00:47:58,116 --> 00:48:00,676
Speaker 1: you and say, here's a person who really, you know,

868
00:48:01,436 --> 00:48:04,116
Speaker 1: took control of the situation at a very young age.

869
00:48:05,156 --> 00:48:05,636
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.

870
00:48:05,876 --> 00:48:09,716
Speaker 8: I think honestly, I wasn't very I didn't realize what

871
00:48:09,836 --> 00:48:12,596
Speaker 8: I was getting into. I think when I started, when

872
00:48:12,636 --> 00:48:15,916
Speaker 8: I first did a record deal with Fat Bossom, I

873
00:48:15,956 --> 00:48:18,436
Speaker 8: didn't really realize that it was going to be a career.

874
00:48:19,236 --> 00:48:22,036
Speaker 8: I was still thinking I took time off from school,

875
00:48:22,076 --> 00:48:23,636
Speaker 8: I didn't even drop out. I was thinking, I'm going

876
00:48:23,716 --> 00:48:25,276
Speaker 8: to go back, I'm just going to go do a

877
00:48:25,356 --> 00:48:28,596
Speaker 8: fun tour. It's going to be great. I was thinking

878
00:48:28,676 --> 00:48:30,396
Speaker 8: it was gonna be very different than what it ended

879
00:48:30,476 --> 00:48:33,236
Speaker 8: up being. I'm glad it ended up being what it was,

880
00:48:33,476 --> 00:48:38,076
Speaker 8: but I was not. I was not expecting it and

881
00:48:38,236 --> 00:48:41,436
Speaker 8: I was not prepared for it. I did. When I

882
00:48:41,516 --> 00:48:43,796
Speaker 8: first signed my deal with contract, it was a very

883
00:48:43,916 --> 00:48:47,436
Speaker 8: simple deal. I didn't have a lot of pages and

884
00:48:47,716 --> 00:48:51,556
Speaker 8: legal language for you yeah, basically train over your soul.

885
00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:56,516
Speaker 8: I had my dad found like a friend of a friend,

886
00:48:56,596 --> 00:48:58,356
Speaker 8: a friend who's a lawyer, who like looked over it

887
00:48:58,436 --> 00:49:00,236
Speaker 8: for like fifteen minutes. I was like, yeah, this is all,

888
00:49:01,116 --> 00:49:03,596
Speaker 8: you know, normal, Like it's this is all what it means.

889
00:49:03,876 --> 00:49:08,596
Speaker 8: It's pretty pretty normal for something like this, and I

890
00:49:08,676 --> 00:49:11,396
Speaker 8: signed it and went for it. It was a short deal.

891
00:49:11,436 --> 00:49:12,156
Speaker 4: It was only.

892
00:49:13,716 --> 00:49:17,876
Speaker 8: One record really. It was like a collection thing that

893
00:49:17,956 --> 00:49:21,236
Speaker 8: I did called Collection of band Camp Songs. We recorded

894
00:49:22,516 --> 00:49:26,076
Speaker 8: with a little, very very little money into it, and

895
00:49:26,196 --> 00:49:28,356
Speaker 8: then my first album Clean. So it was very short

896
00:49:28,556 --> 00:49:30,636
Speaker 8: deal and I was out of it really quick, free

897
00:49:30,716 --> 00:49:33,276
Speaker 8: to go, you know, do whatever I wanted. At that point,

898
00:49:33,316 --> 00:49:35,596
Speaker 8: I had my own lawyer when I signed my next deal,

899
00:49:35,676 --> 00:49:38,276
Speaker 8: so I didn't have to I didn't have to sign much.

900
00:49:38,516 --> 00:49:40,916
Speaker 8: I didn't I didn't need a lot of help in

901
00:49:40,996 --> 00:49:43,556
Speaker 8: that department. I think what made me be kind of

902
00:49:43,676 --> 00:49:46,116
Speaker 8: level headed about things. Is that I was always like

903
00:49:47,356 --> 00:49:49,236
Speaker 8: this is I was still in the headspace of this

904
00:49:49,396 --> 00:49:53,436
Speaker 8: is not like your dream is not coming true a

905
00:49:53,516 --> 00:49:56,956
Speaker 8: little bit. You know, it's like you're gonna get to tour.

906
00:49:57,236 --> 00:50:01,236
Speaker 8: That's great. Like only only focus on things that are definites,

907
00:50:01,476 --> 00:50:05,596
Speaker 8: I guess, and rather than getting lost in what could

908
00:50:05,676 --> 00:50:08,796
Speaker 8: be or what someone could offer you. I think because

909
00:50:08,796 --> 00:50:12,036
Speaker 8: a lot of people signed to labels that tell them

910
00:50:12,236 --> 00:50:13,796
Speaker 8: all these things they can do for them and give

911
00:50:13,796 --> 00:50:17,476
Speaker 8: them these huge dreams and ideas of what they could

912
00:50:17,516 --> 00:50:20,276
Speaker 8: be that are like far beyond their reach at the

913
00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:22,836
Speaker 8: current moment. You know, it's like we could turn you

914
00:50:22,956 --> 00:50:27,236
Speaker 8: into this a little bit. And I think getting in

915
00:50:27,636 --> 00:50:30,836
Speaker 8: over your head is always a bad idea. I think

916
00:50:31,116 --> 00:50:33,476
Speaker 8: because you just you are the one who's going to

917
00:50:33,516 --> 00:50:35,796
Speaker 8: do everything for yourself at the end of the day.

918
00:50:35,916 --> 00:50:38,756
Speaker 8: Like if you get big, it's because you worked really

919
00:50:38,756 --> 00:50:41,796
Speaker 8: hard at writing music and you wrote a song that

920
00:50:41,956 --> 00:50:43,716
Speaker 8: was great and then there was all the help of

921
00:50:43,796 --> 00:50:45,716
Speaker 8: the press and all of that. But you have to

922
00:50:45,796 --> 00:50:49,716
Speaker 8: be driving it, I think, and if you're not, no

923
00:50:50,196 --> 00:50:52,116
Speaker 8: label can take you and just like poof turn you

924
00:50:52,236 --> 00:50:56,556
Speaker 8: into like a star or something. It's not like a

925
00:50:56,636 --> 00:50:58,996
Speaker 8: fairy tale. You still have to work at things and

926
00:50:59,036 --> 00:51:01,956
Speaker 8: you have to grind, and that's really how you get somewhere.

927
00:51:02,236 --> 00:51:05,956
Speaker 1: Did you hear promises like that from labels?

928
00:51:07,436 --> 00:51:10,196
Speaker 8: Yeah, I definitely definitely talk labels before where it was

929
00:51:10,316 --> 00:51:14,276
Speaker 8: like a lot of big ideas. I think at the

930
00:51:14,356 --> 00:51:17,476
Speaker 8: time with fat Posum, it was not big ideas. It

931
00:51:17,556 --> 00:51:19,436
Speaker 8: was like, we want to do this in this and

932
00:51:19,556 --> 00:51:23,556
Speaker 8: it was like great small team, you know. They they

933
00:51:23,596 --> 00:51:27,116
Speaker 8: were dedicated to trying to like make my stuff take off.

934
00:51:27,316 --> 00:51:31,116
Speaker 8: But there weren't any crazy promises and I didn't have

935
00:51:31,396 --> 00:51:33,556
Speaker 8: crazy ideas in my head. I was just like, I'll

936
00:51:33,636 --> 00:51:36,036
Speaker 8: give one hundred and ten percent of anything I have

937
00:51:37,196 --> 00:51:40,116
Speaker 8: to doing this and if it takes me somewhere, great.

938
00:51:40,196 --> 00:51:43,396
Speaker 8: If it doesn't, I'm never gonna regret it. I'm just gonna,

939
00:51:44,196 --> 00:51:46,036
Speaker 8: you know, see things for how they are a little

940
00:51:46,076 --> 00:51:47,556
Speaker 8: bit that not everybody makes it.

941
00:51:49,316 --> 00:51:51,156
Speaker 1: Are you more accepting of the idea now?

942
00:51:52,276 --> 00:51:54,636
Speaker 8: Now? I accept it's my career. I do not have

943
00:51:54,716 --> 00:51:56,076
Speaker 8: to do another job currently.

944
00:51:57,396 --> 00:51:59,956
Speaker 1: Do you think you'll ever have to do another job

945
00:52:00,036 --> 00:52:01,636
Speaker 1: or you think you'll be able to make music?

946
00:52:01,836 --> 00:52:04,876
Speaker 8: I think about that all the time. I wouldn't be

947
00:52:04,916 --> 00:52:08,676
Speaker 8: surprised if I did I just don't. I don't think

948
00:52:08,676 --> 00:52:12,196
Speaker 8: I have what it takes to be like someone who's

949
00:52:12,236 --> 00:52:16,356
Speaker 8: shooting for like the very very very top. I used

950
00:52:16,356 --> 00:52:20,076
Speaker 8: to think that. I just don't think I actually want that. Now,

951
00:52:22,396 --> 00:52:25,196
Speaker 8: you know, you can want to be as successful as

952
00:52:25,196 --> 00:52:28,356
Speaker 8: possible with your music and be ambitious about music and

953
00:52:28,596 --> 00:52:32,396
Speaker 8: not care about the industry and all that kind of stuff,

954
00:52:32,436 --> 00:52:35,876
Speaker 8: and it can be very damaging to people. I think, so,

955
00:52:36,276 --> 00:52:39,796
Speaker 8: I don't think I would necessarily ever be in a

956
00:52:39,836 --> 00:52:44,036
Speaker 8: place where I'm like getting number ones top of the charts,

957
00:52:44,196 --> 00:52:46,756
Speaker 8: like doing all this kind of stuff. I wouldn't necessarily

958
00:52:46,796 --> 00:52:48,596
Speaker 8: say no to it, but I wouldn't want to fight

959
00:52:48,716 --> 00:52:54,636
Speaker 8: for it anymore. And I do think about when I'm fifty,

960
00:52:55,116 --> 00:52:57,956
Speaker 8: what will I be doing. So I save my money

961
00:52:58,916 --> 00:53:03,156
Speaker 8: and release some of it and just try to, I

962
00:53:03,196 --> 00:53:05,196
Speaker 8: don't know, keep getting to do what I want to do,

963
00:53:05,396 --> 00:53:08,156
Speaker 8: but not pushing myself into a place where it's not

964
00:53:08,276 --> 00:53:10,636
Speaker 8: fun anymore, and not you know what I want to

965
00:53:10,676 --> 00:53:13,476
Speaker 8: be doing. I'm making compromises. I don't think you should

966
00:53:13,516 --> 00:53:15,596
Speaker 8: ever compromise what you want to make in art. I

967
00:53:15,676 --> 00:53:19,476
Speaker 8: think if you do your like starting the Fall, you're

968
00:53:19,556 --> 00:53:23,396
Speaker 8: like gonna lose if you start changing yourself for what

969
00:53:23,556 --> 00:53:26,716
Speaker 8: other people want or for what the world thinks they want.

970
00:53:27,196 --> 00:53:29,356
Speaker 8: I think you're just going to be losing.

971
00:53:30,436 --> 00:53:34,236
Speaker 1: You know, you toured with Liz Fair, and I don't

972
00:53:34,236 --> 00:53:36,036
Speaker 1: know how much time you spent with her.

973
00:53:36,676 --> 00:53:37,316
Speaker 8: Yeah, a little bit.

974
00:53:37,556 --> 00:53:40,356
Speaker 1: But she is a person who kind of, like you,

975
00:53:40,596 --> 00:53:44,756
Speaker 1: had these little tapes that kind of just exploded, and

976
00:53:44,836 --> 00:53:48,236
Speaker 1: she became this very powerful symbol for people. And then

977
00:53:48,276 --> 00:53:51,876
Speaker 1: a couple albums in her record label said write with

978
00:53:51,956 --> 00:53:54,556
Speaker 1: these other people, and she, like you didn't write with

979
00:53:54,676 --> 00:53:58,476
Speaker 1: other people. She wrote by herself, and she got eviscerated

980
00:53:58,556 --> 00:53:58,796
Speaker 1: for it.

981
00:53:59,236 --> 00:53:59,476
Speaker 8: Yeah.

982
00:54:00,436 --> 00:54:02,356
Speaker 1: My old employer of The New York Times wrote a

983
00:54:02,396 --> 00:54:05,356
Speaker 1: piece that was just made it seem like she, I

984
00:54:05,436 --> 00:54:10,316
Speaker 1: don't know, betrayed the nation or something, Yeah, betrayed her fans.

985
00:54:10,356 --> 00:54:12,796
Speaker 1: Did you ever talk to her about like her career

986
00:54:12,916 --> 00:54:15,436
Speaker 1: trajectory and what people expected of her.

987
00:54:16,036 --> 00:54:16,676
Speaker 4: No, I didn't.

988
00:54:16,676 --> 00:54:19,356
Speaker 8: I didn't really, but I obviously know a bit about

989
00:54:19,396 --> 00:54:23,236
Speaker 8: her career, and I think there there is a beauty

990
00:54:23,356 --> 00:54:26,636
Speaker 8: to like kind of where she's at in life too.

991
00:54:27,356 --> 00:54:30,316
Speaker 8: You know, she's still making records, and I feel like

992
00:54:30,396 --> 00:54:32,996
Speaker 8: she's just making them for herself. She's doing what she

993
00:54:33,116 --> 00:54:35,636
Speaker 8: wants to do, and that's where I want to be

994
00:54:35,876 --> 00:54:38,316
Speaker 8: when i'm you know, when I'm fifty, I want to

995
00:54:38,356 --> 00:54:42,316
Speaker 8: be making what I want to make and being able

996
00:54:42,356 --> 00:54:44,996
Speaker 8: to literally live off of it. I don't want to,

997
00:54:46,356 --> 00:54:51,676
Speaker 8: you know, I don't need to be like this huge

998
00:54:51,876 --> 00:54:54,996
Speaker 8: star for my life. I don't think that's not something

999
00:54:55,076 --> 00:54:57,596
Speaker 8: that I think is worth giving up your happiness. And

1000
00:54:57,876 --> 00:54:59,956
Speaker 8: you do lose that. I think if you try too

1001
00:55:00,036 --> 00:55:02,996
Speaker 8: hard to please other people, and you try too hard

1002
00:55:03,076 --> 00:55:06,836
Speaker 8: to do things that are not true to yourself, you

1003
00:55:07,116 --> 00:55:10,036
Speaker 8: lose like you're happy meaness and you end up in

1004
00:55:10,076 --> 00:55:11,396
Speaker 8: a place where you just aren't happy.

1005
00:55:11,716 --> 00:55:13,876
Speaker 1: So you don't want to buy Michael Jackson's old ranch

1006
00:55:13,956 --> 00:55:15,596
Speaker 1: or no anything like that.

1007
00:55:15,996 --> 00:55:18,796
Speaker 8: I mean, hey, if I get there, i'd I'd love

1008
00:55:18,956 --> 00:55:22,076
Speaker 8: to buy myself a big ranch or buy myself you know,

1009
00:55:22,196 --> 00:55:25,116
Speaker 8: like something. I have no problem with it. I just

1010
00:55:25,196 --> 00:55:27,036
Speaker 8: think you have to be very true to what you

1011
00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:30,436
Speaker 8: want to do, and it's okay to not be comfortable

1012
00:55:30,596 --> 00:55:34,316
Speaker 8: with all of the parts of the the industry. I

1013
00:55:34,396 --> 00:55:38,356
Speaker 8: think we really love as a like society. Everybody loves

1014
00:55:38,436 --> 00:55:41,716
Speaker 8: to look at people like even like Chapel Roone. I

1015
00:55:41,756 --> 00:55:44,076
Speaker 8: feel like it's been talking about it a lot. But

1016
00:55:44,876 --> 00:55:46,836
Speaker 8: and you look at these people talking about it and

1017
00:55:46,916 --> 00:55:49,036
Speaker 8: you're like, that's so great that they're saying something that's

1018
00:55:49,036 --> 00:55:51,716
Speaker 8: so great. But people still want the same things from you,

1019
00:55:51,796 --> 00:55:53,556
Speaker 8: and they're still going to ask for the same things.

1020
00:55:53,916 --> 00:55:58,396
Speaker 8: And if you say no to doing certain things or

1021
00:55:58,476 --> 00:56:01,996
Speaker 8: to you know, being involved in certain parts of the world,

1022
00:56:02,076 --> 00:56:04,916
Speaker 8: if you pass on things, it does hurt your career,

1023
00:56:04,956 --> 00:56:07,596
Speaker 8: it doesn't help it. But it's a balance of like,

1024
00:56:08,956 --> 00:56:10,916
Speaker 8: just because this is how the world is and the

1025
00:56:10,996 --> 00:56:15,356
Speaker 8: industry is, it doesn't mean you have to decide you're

1026
00:56:15,356 --> 00:56:17,556
Speaker 8: willing to do it. You still have choice.

1027
00:56:17,956 --> 00:56:21,476
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know it occurs to me. If you

1028
00:56:21,596 --> 00:56:23,756
Speaker 1: grew up in Detroit in the sixties and we're talking

1029
00:56:23,796 --> 00:56:26,196
Speaker 1: this way, I would say, well, did you listen to

1030
00:56:26,276 --> 00:56:29,436
Speaker 1: Marvin Gaye in Motown and you grew up in Nashville

1031
00:56:30,396 --> 00:56:34,316
Speaker 1: in early two thousands, Taylor Swift must have been everywhere.

1032
00:56:35,036 --> 00:56:35,676
Speaker 8: Yeah, she was.

1033
00:56:36,716 --> 00:56:37,916
Speaker 1: Were you a fan growing up?

1034
00:56:38,116 --> 00:56:38,516
Speaker 9: I was?

1035
00:56:38,796 --> 00:56:40,436
Speaker 8: I was a fan growing up. I was a fan

1036
00:56:40,556 --> 00:56:44,156
Speaker 8: when her first album came out. I remember my dad

1037
00:56:44,236 --> 00:56:48,636
Speaker 8: gave me that on his iPod video that's the time period,

1038
00:56:48,716 --> 00:56:52,196
Speaker 8: just to set the same for everybody. And I loved

1039
00:56:52,316 --> 00:56:56,236
Speaker 8: that album and then I loved like when Fearless was

1040
00:56:56,276 --> 00:56:57,516
Speaker 8: coming out, I loved some of that, but I was

1041
00:56:57,556 --> 00:56:59,436
Speaker 8: also like kind of a I was a tomboy and

1042
00:56:59,516 --> 00:57:02,196
Speaker 8: I kind of I think for a lot of what

1043
00:57:02,436 --> 00:57:04,236
Speaker 8: was middle school for me, I was a bit like

1044
00:57:05,316 --> 00:57:08,956
Speaker 8: I don't like music like that, like like I'm cooler

1045
00:57:09,196 --> 00:57:11,876
Speaker 8: than that a little bit, and which was stupid because

1046
00:57:11,916 --> 00:57:15,076
Speaker 8: I love it. And by the times in high school

1047
00:57:15,076 --> 00:57:16,796
Speaker 8: I was like, no, I love this, this is great.

1048
00:57:17,436 --> 00:57:18,676
Speaker 8: So I am a Taylor Scheff fan.

1049
00:57:18,956 --> 00:57:19,636
Speaker 1: Have you ever met her?

1050
00:57:21,076 --> 00:57:21,276
Speaker 4: Yes?

1051
00:57:21,556 --> 00:57:24,956
Speaker 8: Actually I met her one time at it was not

1052
00:57:25,196 --> 00:57:28,316
Speaker 8: through this, It was not through music world. It was

1053
00:57:28,636 --> 00:57:31,476
Speaker 8: I was in high school. I went to a performing

1054
00:57:31,556 --> 00:57:34,636
Speaker 8: arts high school and they got some of the guitar

1055
00:57:34,676 --> 00:57:37,036
Speaker 8: students to come take a photo off at the opening

1056
00:57:37,156 --> 00:57:41,316
Speaker 8: of her like learning center at the Country Music Hall

1057
00:57:41,316 --> 00:57:45,076
Speaker 8: of Fame, And so we took a photo me and

1058
00:57:45,116 --> 00:57:46,516
Speaker 8: a couple other students with her.

1059
00:57:47,076 --> 00:57:49,076
Speaker 1: Were you holding your guitars or no, We're just.

1060
00:57:49,116 --> 00:57:52,196
Speaker 8: It's just like students music students.

1061
00:57:51,876 --> 00:57:56,236
Speaker 1: Standing there local. Yeah, Okay. Is she the kind of

1062
00:57:56,396 --> 00:58:00,516
Speaker 1: star and not every start is? Is she the kind

1063
00:58:00,516 --> 00:58:02,396
Speaker 1: of star that makes people want to pick up a

1064
00:58:02,436 --> 00:58:04,236
Speaker 1: guitar and do it themselves.

1065
00:58:04,636 --> 00:58:08,036
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think so when I was young, I think definitely.

1066
00:58:08,036 --> 00:58:11,116
Speaker 8: I can't speak to it now always much because I'm

1067
00:58:11,116 --> 00:58:12,916
Speaker 8: in a different place in my life and I don't

1068
00:58:12,916 --> 00:58:14,836
Speaker 8: know if I can speak to that kind of inspiration.

1069
00:58:15,076 --> 00:58:18,916
Speaker 8: But when I was younger, I think definitely seeing someone

1070
00:58:19,916 --> 00:58:22,396
Speaker 8: like her, like when her first album came out, even

1071
00:58:22,996 --> 00:58:25,356
Speaker 8: who's writing her songs and is sitting there playing guitar

1072
00:58:25,436 --> 00:58:30,316
Speaker 8: and singing and it's just a normal girl. Really, it

1073
00:58:30,556 --> 00:58:33,596
Speaker 8: was very inspirational and the songs really spoke to I

1074
00:58:33,636 --> 00:58:37,036
Speaker 8: think a lot of young girls like my age. I

1075
00:58:37,076 --> 00:58:41,156
Speaker 8: think it was speaking to everybody. And they're just also

1076
00:58:41,556 --> 00:58:46,276
Speaker 8: super catchy, super poppy, like kind of immaculate songs they have.

1077
00:58:47,796 --> 00:58:49,716
Speaker 8: They have a lot of thought behind them, you know,

1078
00:58:49,796 --> 00:58:52,436
Speaker 8: they're not just something that someone wrote really quickly and

1079
00:58:52,876 --> 00:58:57,436
Speaker 8: popped out. So yeah, I think it was definitely really important.

1080
00:58:57,436 --> 00:58:58,596
Speaker 8: I don't think that there was a lot of that

1081
00:58:58,716 --> 00:59:00,996
Speaker 8: going on where it was an artist that felt like

1082
00:59:01,076 --> 00:59:03,796
Speaker 8: they were writing their music and not like they were

1083
00:59:03,876 --> 00:59:06,116
Speaker 8: just a pop star that was getting thrown songs a

1084
00:59:06,196 --> 00:59:08,916
Speaker 8: little bit and kind of doing that, which there's nothing

1085
00:59:09,316 --> 00:59:12,036
Speaker 8: with that either, But I think it was very inspirational

1086
00:59:12,076 --> 00:59:12,476
Speaker 8: at the time.

1087
00:59:13,276 --> 00:59:15,476
Speaker 1: Now, you've never written with anyone else, Is that right?

1088
00:59:15,716 --> 00:59:17,476
Speaker 8: Yeah, I haven't because that's.

1089
00:59:17,356 --> 00:59:20,476
Speaker 1: A big part of sort of the Nashville culture. You

1090
00:59:20,796 --> 00:59:22,956
Speaker 1: phone someone and at ten o'clock you meet and you

1091
00:59:23,076 --> 00:59:25,956
Speaker 1: write for two hours. Have you have you ever been

1092
00:59:26,036 --> 00:59:28,156
Speaker 1: asked to do that by label or.

1093
00:59:29,316 --> 00:59:30,956
Speaker 8: I haven't been asked by label. I've been asked by

1094
00:59:31,036 --> 00:59:35,036
Speaker 8: people if I want to write with them, and it's

1095
00:59:35,156 --> 00:59:37,796
Speaker 8: I don't. I just can't imagine who could make me

1096
00:59:37,876 --> 00:59:40,196
Speaker 8: want to write with them, Like, I can't imagine what

1097
00:59:40,516 --> 00:59:43,956
Speaker 8: level of like idle it would have to be for

1098
00:59:44,116 --> 00:59:46,756
Speaker 8: me to want to do that. I just I think

1099
00:59:46,796 --> 00:59:50,116
Speaker 8: writing for me is very personal and it's very like private,

1100
00:59:51,196 --> 00:59:55,276
Speaker 8: and I would feel really uncomfortable. I've like had friends

1101
00:59:55,276 --> 00:59:56,876
Speaker 8: when I was in high school They're like, let's write

1102
00:59:56,876 --> 00:59:58,516
Speaker 8: a song together, and would like try to do it,

1103
00:59:58,556 --> 01:00:02,036
Speaker 8: and I would just be like checked out. I just can't.

1104
01:00:02,676 --> 01:00:04,916
Speaker 8: I can't work like that. I don't know. It feels

1105
01:00:05,116 --> 01:00:11,316
Speaker 8: very awkward, and you know, just I don't want to

1106
01:00:11,356 --> 01:00:14,956
Speaker 8: compromise with anyone. If I'm working on a song, I'm

1107
01:00:15,036 --> 01:00:16,716
Speaker 8: working on making something I want to make. I don't

1108
01:00:16,716 --> 01:00:18,956
Speaker 8: want to compromise. I don't want to work with somebody else.

1109
01:00:18,996 --> 01:00:20,836
Speaker 8: I don't want their idea in there if I don't

1110
01:00:20,916 --> 01:00:25,556
Speaker 8: like it. So yeah, I don't know. I get why

1111
01:00:25,636 --> 01:00:27,796
Speaker 8: some people do it. It makes a lot of good music,

1112
01:00:27,916 --> 01:00:30,956
Speaker 8: but I just I can't.

1113
01:00:31,596 --> 01:00:33,916
Speaker 1: No, you say it's so private what you do? Is

1114
01:00:33,996 --> 01:00:37,476
Speaker 1: it hard then presenting your stuff to your band?

1115
01:00:38,636 --> 01:00:42,636
Speaker 8: No, Honestly, by the time that the band hears the songs,

1116
01:00:42,716 --> 01:00:45,116
Speaker 8: they've been done for a while, like they've been demoed

1117
01:00:45,196 --> 01:00:50,996
Speaker 8: for like a minute, I think, and it gives you

1118
01:00:51,116 --> 01:00:53,396
Speaker 8: time to decide whether you're asshirt on it. I think

1119
01:00:53,436 --> 01:00:58,116
Speaker 8: when you're writing, it's such a private process because you're

1120
01:00:58,156 --> 01:01:01,596
Speaker 8: making mistakes. You're thinking of an idea and saying, oh,

1121
01:01:01,636 --> 01:01:04,716
Speaker 8: I hate that. I think that's embarrassing that I even

1122
01:01:04,796 --> 01:01:06,436
Speaker 8: thought of that. You know, I don't. I don't like

1123
01:01:06,516 --> 01:01:10,796
Speaker 8: that idea, scrap it. And I think if you're writing

1124
01:01:10,836 --> 01:01:14,596
Speaker 8: with someone else, it'd feel very vulnerable to make those

1125
01:01:14,676 --> 01:01:20,036
Speaker 8: kind of mistakes and have things to say that aren't good,

1126
01:01:20,636 --> 01:01:22,756
Speaker 8: because that's what you know in writing. You're not going

1127
01:01:22,796 --> 01:01:27,956
Speaker 8: to just write everything beautifully and great on the first try.

1128
01:01:28,036 --> 01:01:30,836
Speaker 8: And it's weird to share someone with someone like the

1129
01:01:30,956 --> 01:01:32,076
Speaker 8: draft process.

1130
01:01:32,196 --> 01:01:34,876
Speaker 1: I think, although you know for a lot of people

1131
01:01:35,116 --> 01:01:39,076
Speaker 1: that feeling of vulnerability stops them from writing altogether. Yeah,

1132
01:01:39,196 --> 01:01:40,356
Speaker 1: have you ever had trouble writing?

1133
01:01:41,556 --> 01:01:43,956
Speaker 8: No? I think I've just been doing it so long.

1134
01:01:44,116 --> 01:01:49,796
Speaker 8: It's thoughtless. Honestly. You know, when I sit down to

1135
01:01:49,836 --> 01:01:52,196
Speaker 8: write a song, I'm not even thinking necessarily that I'm

1136
01:01:52,236 --> 01:01:54,116
Speaker 8: going to write a song. It's just going to come,

1137
01:01:54,396 --> 01:01:57,196
Speaker 8: or it's not going to come. But I do think

1138
01:01:57,316 --> 01:02:00,636
Speaker 8: that it's stopped me from sharing my songwriting for a

1139
01:02:00,756 --> 01:02:04,636
Speaker 8: long time, and it stopped me from pursuing that kind

1140
01:02:04,676 --> 01:02:08,596
Speaker 8: of you know, you see people, even when I was

1141
01:02:08,636 --> 01:02:11,196
Speaker 8: in high schoo people recording their songs and like making

1142
01:02:11,236 --> 01:02:13,636
Speaker 8: a CD and printing it out and selling it and

1143
01:02:13,756 --> 01:02:16,956
Speaker 8: like publicizing it. And I never wanted to do that

1144
01:02:17,156 --> 01:02:22,436
Speaker 8: because it was embarrassing to write a song. You know,

1145
01:02:22,516 --> 01:02:25,596
Speaker 8: you say a bunch of stuff, and if you're gonna

1146
01:02:25,596 --> 01:02:28,996
Speaker 8: be honest, it's like really a peek into your mind

1147
01:02:29,036 --> 01:02:31,276
Speaker 8: a bit, and if somebody doesn't like it, it can

1148
01:02:31,356 --> 01:02:34,476
Speaker 8: be so embarrassing. Making art is like one of the

1149
01:02:34,556 --> 01:02:37,196
Speaker 8: most embarrassing things that you could ever do, I think.

1150
01:02:38,276 --> 01:02:41,556
Speaker 8: But that's why it can be so you know, satisfying

1151
01:02:41,596 --> 01:02:43,316
Speaker 8: and can really break down a lot of walls.

1152
01:02:44,076 --> 01:02:47,516
Speaker 1: Well, at the risk of embarrassing you. The line and

1153
01:02:47,716 --> 01:02:50,596
Speaker 1: dreaming of falling that really stuck out for me was

1154
01:02:50,636 --> 01:02:53,076
Speaker 1: seeing the light is an awful trick when I've been

1155
01:02:53,116 --> 01:02:56,116
Speaker 1: going when I keep going down. So what was what

1156
01:02:56,476 --> 01:02:56,996
Speaker 1: prompted that?

1157
01:02:58,036 --> 01:03:00,116
Speaker 8: I think it's kind of a flip from a lot

1158
01:03:00,196 --> 01:03:03,876
Speaker 8: of other moments on the record where there's like this

1159
01:03:04,076 --> 01:03:11,356
Speaker 8: idea of trying to be positive and be not even hopeful,

1160
01:03:11,436 --> 01:03:14,236
Speaker 8: but just cling to these beautiful things, you know, when

1161
01:03:14,236 --> 01:03:17,516
Speaker 8: you're feeling all this sadness, realizing that it's a balance

1162
01:03:17,596 --> 01:03:20,596
Speaker 8: and it's not one thing, it's all of these things,

1163
01:03:20,676 --> 01:03:26,636
Speaker 8: and kind of remembering that memories and painful moments don't

1164
01:03:26,676 --> 01:03:31,036
Speaker 8: have to be just awful. They can be reminders too

1165
01:03:31,236 --> 01:03:33,316
Speaker 8: in a nice way. And I think in this moment

1166
01:03:33,516 --> 01:03:37,036
Speaker 8: it was like that, you know, seeing the lights, seeing

1167
01:03:37,116 --> 01:03:40,836
Speaker 8: this like warmth, and trying to have this reminder of

1168
01:03:41,036 --> 01:03:44,076
Speaker 8: like the beauty of things is just like a knife

1169
01:03:44,236 --> 01:03:46,916
Speaker 8: a little bit. It's not you know, it doesn't feel helpful.

1170
01:03:46,916 --> 01:03:50,596
Speaker 8: It feels just like a reminder of what's not there anymore.

1171
01:03:51,476 --> 01:03:54,516
Speaker 1: It's a very powerful line. It reminded me a little

1172
01:03:54,716 --> 01:04:00,476
Speaker 1: of do you ever see the documentary The Bridge? It's

1173
01:04:00,476 --> 01:04:03,276
Speaker 1: about the Golden Gate Bridge, and they set up cameras

1174
01:04:03,436 --> 01:04:07,356
Speaker 1: before they put up the protections. It makes it harder

1175
01:04:07,356 --> 01:04:09,436
Speaker 1: for people to jump off the bridge. I think about

1176
01:04:09,436 --> 01:04:12,436
Speaker 1: fifty people used to jump every year. So you'll actually

1177
01:04:12,516 --> 01:04:16,036
Speaker 1: see a little splash of water on one of these

1178
01:04:16,116 --> 01:04:18,876
Speaker 1: distant cameras, and then they'll try and find the person's

1179
01:04:18,956 --> 01:04:22,996
Speaker 1: family and talk to them about it. But there's and famously,

1180
01:04:23,116 --> 01:04:26,716
Speaker 1: one guy jumped off the Golden gate Bridge who survived.

1181
01:04:27,956 --> 01:04:30,516
Speaker 1: And when you talk to him and he gives speeches

1182
01:04:30,556 --> 01:04:32,396
Speaker 1: and stuff about this, it's really you know, he was

1183
01:04:32,436 --> 01:04:35,516
Speaker 1: a drug addict, he was having a tough life and

1184
01:04:36,116 --> 01:04:38,316
Speaker 1: he jumped and he said the middle the minute he

1185
01:04:38,436 --> 01:04:41,556
Speaker 1: jumped out in his foot left all he could think.

1186
01:04:41,596 --> 01:04:43,556
Speaker 1: It was like I don't want to do this, like

1187
01:04:43,636 --> 01:04:46,156
Speaker 1: I want to live. But he now he ended up living.

1188
01:04:46,316 --> 01:04:50,436
Speaker 1: But you just wonder how many people sort of go

1189
01:04:50,596 --> 01:04:54,996
Speaker 1: through that when they jump. I don't know, that's even

1190
01:04:55,036 --> 01:04:56,796
Speaker 1: more morbid than your song, I think, so. I don't

1191
01:04:56,796 --> 01:04:58,116
Speaker 1: know why it reminded me of that, but it just

1192
01:04:58,196 --> 01:05:01,876
Speaker 1: brought that image fact to me. I do want to

1193
01:05:01,876 --> 01:05:04,956
Speaker 1: ask you about a couple more songs of Salt and

1194
01:05:04,996 --> 01:05:08,756
Speaker 1: Wound and Anchor are both. They've both got these great

1195
01:05:08,796 --> 01:05:12,596
Speaker 1: guitars parts. I think, like you know, you mentioned Nirvana,

1196
01:05:13,116 --> 01:05:15,276
Speaker 1: Alison Chains, I think those guys would have been proud

1197
01:05:15,316 --> 01:05:17,556
Speaker 1: of those guitar riffs. Where did they come from?

1198
01:05:17,996 --> 01:05:20,796
Speaker 8: The Salt and Wound one is me I that was

1199
01:05:20,876 --> 01:05:24,516
Speaker 8: like part of the demo and everything, and I just

1200
01:05:24,796 --> 01:05:27,276
Speaker 8: I just could wanted it to have this kind of

1201
01:05:27,756 --> 01:05:31,396
Speaker 8: moving around the chords and you know a little bit

1202
01:05:32,156 --> 01:05:35,276
Speaker 8: strange because there's some within the chords, there's like some

1203
01:05:36,076 --> 01:05:38,596
Speaker 8: notes that have you know, a very particular feeling. I

1204
01:05:38,676 --> 01:05:42,476
Speaker 8: guess that it that it gives you and it kind

1205
01:05:42,516 --> 01:05:47,076
Speaker 8: of I love slighty half step note things all the time.

1206
01:05:47,556 --> 01:05:50,156
Speaker 8: I love writing that. It's just fun to play. Honestly,

1207
01:05:50,236 --> 01:05:52,916
Speaker 8: if you sit down with the guitar and you play

1208
01:05:52,996 --> 01:05:56,676
Speaker 8: that riff, it's just like moving in half step increments

1209
01:05:56,676 --> 01:06:00,716
Speaker 8: all over the place. It's really fun. So yeah, that

1210
01:06:00,836 --> 01:06:02,356
Speaker 8: was a really important part to me. I feel like

1211
01:06:02,396 --> 01:06:05,836
Speaker 8: that really brought it from being just this song to

1212
01:06:05,916 --> 01:06:07,756
Speaker 8: like bringing it to life a little bit and you know,

1213
01:06:07,876 --> 01:06:12,876
Speaker 8: being a little bit more yeah, rocking anchor. That's actually

1214
01:06:12,956 --> 01:06:16,476
Speaker 8: Julian playing that part that like arpeggio on the acoustic guitar.

1215
01:06:16,476 --> 01:06:20,996
Speaker 8: I think that's Julian and Rodrigo doubling each other. Perhaps,

1216
01:06:21,556 --> 01:06:23,236
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure with like a twelve string and an

1217
01:06:23,236 --> 01:06:24,836
Speaker 8: acoustic and electric or something.

1218
01:06:25,156 --> 01:06:26,636
Speaker 1: Damn twelve string again, Yeah.

1219
01:06:26,556 --> 01:06:28,396
Speaker 8: Twelve string. I don't want to play it. Somebody else

1220
01:06:28,436 --> 01:06:32,596
Speaker 8: can do it. An acoustic twelve string too, is awful

1221
01:06:32,676 --> 01:06:34,716
Speaker 8: to play. I mean, my hands are just not used

1222
01:06:34,756 --> 01:06:39,116
Speaker 8: to that. But yeah, it's that song was so difficult

1223
01:06:39,316 --> 01:06:42,796
Speaker 8: to get right. I wrote it and I knew what

1224
01:06:42,876 --> 01:06:46,316
Speaker 8: I wanted it to feel like. I guess after we

1225
01:06:46,436 --> 01:06:48,036
Speaker 8: tried to like mess around in the studio, I was like,

1226
01:06:48,116 --> 01:06:53,156
Speaker 8: I wanted to have this like drunken like sailor type

1227
01:06:53,196 --> 01:06:57,476
Speaker 8: of like woodenness to it. But it was very very

1228
01:06:57,516 --> 01:07:00,876
Speaker 8: hard to get that correct without it turning into something else,

1229
01:07:02,476 --> 01:07:05,556
Speaker 8: you know, turning into something that's like a little corny

1230
01:07:05,716 --> 01:07:09,516
Speaker 8: or like swung a little bit or too head with

1231
01:07:09,636 --> 01:07:12,676
Speaker 8: how the chords are really a little bit dissonant at

1232
01:07:12,716 --> 01:07:16,996
Speaker 8: the beginning. So it took a lot of a lot

1233
01:07:17,036 --> 01:07:21,636
Speaker 8: of crafting on our parts to figure that out and

1234
01:07:22,116 --> 01:07:24,156
Speaker 8: kind of piece it all together. But yeah, like that

1235
01:07:24,276 --> 01:07:27,516
Speaker 8: guitar riff was like a perfect little transitional piece to

1236
01:07:27,596 --> 01:07:31,716
Speaker 8: slot in that we just kind of overdubbed onto it,

1237
01:07:32,156 --> 01:07:35,036
Speaker 8: and a lot of the stuff was very slotted in

1238
01:07:35,716 --> 01:07:38,716
Speaker 8: there and kind of arranged after we had a lot

1239
01:07:38,796 --> 01:07:41,636
Speaker 8: of ideas because it was just such a weird song

1240
01:07:41,756 --> 01:07:42,516
Speaker 8: to try to get right.

1241
01:07:42,756 --> 01:07:44,196
Speaker 1: I liked the heaviness of it, though.

1242
01:07:44,596 --> 01:07:46,956
Speaker 8: Yeah, I do too, It's just originally it was like

1243
01:07:47,316 --> 01:07:51,956
Speaker 8: much it was like getting too heavy to like rock

1244
01:07:52,716 --> 01:07:54,356
Speaker 8: kind of vibes, and I think it needs to be

1245
01:07:55,396 --> 01:07:58,476
Speaker 8: a little bit, a little bit creepy kind of heaviness.

1246
01:07:58,996 --> 01:08:01,196
Speaker 1: Didn't you complain once? I thought I read this about

1247
01:08:02,116 --> 01:08:04,236
Speaker 1: too many male dominated punk bands.

1248
01:08:05,236 --> 01:08:07,436
Speaker 8: I mean, I can't disagree.

1249
01:08:09,116 --> 01:08:11,116
Speaker 1: There's a particular time in your life. You were part

1250
01:08:11,156 --> 01:08:11,916
Speaker 1: of a scene. I guess.

1251
01:08:12,156 --> 01:08:14,356
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was in Nashville. There was a big music scene,

1252
01:08:14,476 --> 01:08:17,316
Speaker 8: and I mean I loved a lot of the bands there,

1253
01:08:17,356 --> 01:08:20,516
Speaker 8: and a lot of loved Slash, still love a lot

1254
01:08:20,596 --> 01:08:23,236
Speaker 8: of the people there. But yeah, I think I think

1255
01:08:23,316 --> 01:08:26,956
Speaker 8: growing up it was very just like the same dudes

1256
01:08:26,996 --> 01:08:30,836
Speaker 8: playing in all the same bands. And yeah, there's nothing

1257
01:08:30,876 --> 01:08:33,196
Speaker 8: wrong with having having fun like that, but I think

1258
01:08:33,196 --> 01:08:37,076
Speaker 8: it it felt a lot of times, you know, not

1259
01:08:37,236 --> 01:08:38,436
Speaker 8: just for me, but I think for a lot of

1260
01:08:38,516 --> 01:08:41,236
Speaker 8: other people it felt a little bit stifling.

1261
01:08:42,596 --> 01:08:47,276
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Well that's why there's Taylor Swift Yeah, and

1262
01:08:47,396 --> 01:08:50,756
Speaker 1: Evergreen beautiful sort of conclusion to the record.

1263
01:08:50,876 --> 01:08:53,836
Speaker 8: Tell me about it, Yeah, that one is kind of

1264
01:08:53,876 --> 01:08:59,116
Speaker 8: one of my secret faves on the record. It was

1265
01:08:59,156 --> 01:09:02,956
Speaker 8: a song I wrote really quickly and just instantly felt

1266
01:09:02,996 --> 01:09:08,476
Speaker 8: this kind of you know, like haunting kind of beauty

1267
01:09:08,556 --> 01:09:11,276
Speaker 8: that I wanted it to have because it's it's got

1268
01:09:11,356 --> 01:09:15,636
Speaker 8: some you know, kind of majorie lifts and some kind

1269
01:09:15,636 --> 01:09:18,276
Speaker 8: of haunting chords in there that make it with the melodies,

1270
01:09:18,316 --> 01:09:21,556
Speaker 8: make it feel a little bit like ghostly and it

1271
01:09:21,596 --> 01:09:25,116
Speaker 8: feels sad, but it feels like there's this those kind

1272
01:09:25,156 --> 01:09:27,556
Speaker 8: of lifts at the chorus I guess, so to speak,

1273
01:09:28,836 --> 01:09:32,796
Speaker 8: like major kind of lifts that give it that note

1274
01:09:32,916 --> 01:09:35,876
Speaker 8: of like that light and that lightness and airiness that

1275
01:09:35,956 --> 01:09:39,276
Speaker 8: I wanted it to have. And kind of to me,

1276
01:09:39,396 --> 01:09:42,676
Speaker 8: it's like when it's winter and it's like snowy or something,

1277
01:09:42,716 --> 01:09:44,596
Speaker 8: there's a lot of dead trees and it's like really sunny.

1278
01:09:45,116 --> 01:09:47,676
Speaker 8: It's like that same kind of feeling of you know,

1279
01:09:47,796 --> 01:09:50,916
Speaker 8: this haunting kind of warmth, I guess.

1280
01:09:52,596 --> 01:09:54,796
Speaker 1: And what prompted the song, what was.

1281
01:09:55,716 --> 01:09:57,556
Speaker 8: You know, just just the same thing that a lot

1282
01:09:57,596 --> 01:10:01,356
Speaker 8: of the record's about. It's just about kind of I

1283
01:10:01,436 --> 01:10:06,076
Speaker 8: guess that song in particular, feeling like there's all of

1284
01:10:06,196 --> 01:10:10,916
Speaker 8: these remnants everywhere around and for me, I think, particularly

1285
01:10:11,036 --> 01:10:12,996
Speaker 8: like in nature, I can see a lot of that

1286
01:10:13,796 --> 01:10:17,156
Speaker 8: stuff and looking around and seeing it and having these

1287
01:10:17,276 --> 01:10:21,076
Speaker 8: constant reminders and at times shying away from it and

1288
01:10:21,156 --> 01:10:23,436
Speaker 8: being like, I don't want to do this anymore, I

1289
01:10:23,436 --> 01:10:25,996
Speaker 8: don't want to think about this anymore. I don't want

1290
01:10:26,036 --> 01:10:28,876
Speaker 8: to be reminded of these things, and at other times

1291
01:10:28,996 --> 01:10:32,716
Speaker 8: feeling so connected to it and feeling like there's this

1292
01:10:32,876 --> 01:10:35,596
Speaker 8: like promise that these things are going to be there

1293
01:10:35,676 --> 01:10:39,436
Speaker 8: all the time still and never go away. And you know,

1294
01:10:39,516 --> 01:10:43,036
Speaker 8: even if something's someone's gone, things are different. There's all

1295
01:10:43,076 --> 01:10:47,156
Speaker 8: these changes, these like memories and these like we're just

1296
01:10:47,276 --> 01:10:50,036
Speaker 8: feelings you know, that are connected to certain places and

1297
01:10:50,116 --> 01:10:53,716
Speaker 8: certain things that you can do in times, and looking

1298
01:10:53,796 --> 01:10:57,556
Speaker 8: around and seeing beauty in the world and being connected

1299
01:10:57,636 --> 01:11:02,116
Speaker 8: to that feels lifting and feels like a good promise

1300
01:11:02,236 --> 01:11:02,836
Speaker 8: I guess to have.

1301
01:11:03,356 --> 01:11:05,276
Speaker 1: Mm hm, well that's the trick of the light.

1302
01:11:05,436 --> 01:11:05,796
Speaker 8: Mm hmm.

1303
01:11:05,996 --> 01:11:09,716
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel like playing in the song, But.

1304
01:11:10,956 --> 01:11:11,596
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can do that.

1305
01:11:11,756 --> 01:11:14,516
Speaker 8: I can do another one. I'm gonna do not one

1306
01:11:14,596 --> 01:11:17,716
Speaker 8: off of this record because of the tuning, but I

1307
01:11:17,756 --> 01:11:21,276
Speaker 8: can play another one. I'll play an old song, all right,

1308
01:11:21,756 --> 01:11:25,436
Speaker 8: and then we'll feel well. I'll feel very uh taken

1309
01:11:25,556 --> 01:11:28,876
Speaker 8: back to my college days. This song I actually did

1310
01:11:29,316 --> 01:11:34,796
Speaker 8: record for a college project, funny enough at n y

1311
01:11:34,916 --> 01:11:40,156
Speaker 8: U songs called Alison, yeh.

1312
01:12:02,676 --> 01:12:09,916
Speaker 3: Oh the Sun good song, you sir, give a foot

1313
01:12:10,196 --> 01:12:17,756
Speaker 3: ship food for because he's been laid and at the

1314
01:12:18,316 --> 01:12:21,356
Speaker 3: short speeding.

1315
01:12:25,876 --> 01:12:35,196
Speaker 4: He said in for sir, if you bolted the who.

1316
01:12:37,956 --> 01:12:57,516
Speaker 10: Should not don't see all the same side is something

1317
01:12:58,876 --> 01:13:00,316
Speaker 10: you just broke.

1318
01:13:00,716 --> 01:13:09,036
Speaker 3: This shackles hard because he won't never see those street

1319
01:13:09,196 --> 01:13:11,756
Speaker 3: jeeves waiting.

1320
01:13:11,876 --> 01:13:22,276
Speaker 11: At the soup wait waiting for the night train. We

1321
01:13:22,556 --> 01:13:27,436
Speaker 11: should not not the nex train.

1322
01:13:28,596 --> 01:13:39,716
Speaker 7: Waiting for you. You found waiting for you, you found

1323
01:13:40,116 --> 01:13:51,516
Speaker 7: waiting for you, you found in for you, you found

1324
01:13:51,916 --> 01:13:54,476
Speaker 7: waiting for you.

1325
01:14:23,436 --> 01:14:25,676
Speaker 2: Thanks to Soccer Mammy for coming on the show. You

1326
01:14:25,716 --> 01:14:27,596
Speaker 2: can hear a new album, Evergreen, along with some of

1327
01:14:27,676 --> 01:14:29,836
Speaker 2: our other favorite tracks of hers, on a playlist in

1328
01:14:29,876 --> 01:14:32,716
Speaker 2: the episode description or on our website at Broken Record

1329
01:14:32,756 --> 01:14:35,556
Speaker 2: podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on

1330
01:14:35,636 --> 01:14:38,916
Speaker 2: Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow us

1331
01:14:38,956 --> 01:14:42,356
Speaker 2: on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and

1332
01:14:42,596 --> 01:14:45,636
Speaker 2: edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler

1333
01:14:45,676 --> 01:14:49,956
Speaker 2: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record

1334
01:14:50,036 --> 01:14:53,076
Speaker 2: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

1335
01:14:53,196 --> 01:14:57,076
Speaker 2: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

1336
01:14:57,716 --> 01:15:00,996
Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content

1337
01:15:01,116 --> 01:15:04,716
Speaker 2: and actually listening for four ninety nine a month. Look

1338
01:15:04,756 --> 01:15:08,476
Speaker 2: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you

1339
01:15:08,596 --> 01:15:10,836
Speaker 2: like this show, oh, please remember to share, rate, and

1340
01:15:10,916 --> 01:15:13,756
Speaker 2: review us on your podcast app Our theme musics by

1341
01:15:13,796 --> 01:15:15,596
Speaker 2: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.