1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiah and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 2: Are you doing Black Friday shopping this year or what? 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: No, I'm doing Black Friday saving? Okay, in this economy, 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: put those dollars back in your pocket. There's only two 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: of them, but put them back. What about you? 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: You know, it's been a long time since I participated 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: in Black Friday. I usually like to do like the 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: pre Black Friday sales that they like, you know, game 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: you on where it's like, oh you get a sneak 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: peek to our Black Friday sales. Those things get me 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: every time. But this year, this economy, you know, we 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: got to think a little bit smarter. 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't know. 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: It sounded like think it's smarter, but also maybe dipping 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: your toe in the waters based on what you're just saying, 18 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: tricking myself, you know, doing a bunch of girl math 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: to say, oh, yeah, I didn't spend any money this 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Black Friday, right, this is how it was supposed to be. 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I needed this stuff. But you know what our minds 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: are tricking us all the time. And people may think 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: there's no science to Black Friday shopping and the deals, 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: but there is now. I know a long time ago 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: we knew that Amazon Prime Day was a bus and 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: we gave up on that right. But for Black Friday, 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: I still have questions. So let's jump into it. 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 3: What do we know? 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: I think we know that Black Friday is a very 30 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: special holiday. Can I call it that? 31 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 3: I think so. 32 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: For a lot of folks, people are camping out. I 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: don't know if they're still fist fighting, but I remember 34 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 2: that they were fist fighting back in the day trying 35 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: to get those flat screen TVs. 36 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: I think the flat screen TV. If there was an 37 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: ornament for America, that's it because it runs on capitalism 38 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: and consumerism. Put a flat screen TV on your. 39 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: Christmas treet this year. 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: I know that Black Friday has often been an economic 41 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: indicator or an indicator for what the shopping season is 42 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: going to be, what people are willing to spend, And 43 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: even as we've seen perse Strings Titan that over time, 44 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: people still spend on this day. And we just had 45 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: an episode where we talked about the economy, and so 46 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how you know, with this new influx of 47 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: what doctor West was calling discouraged workers, so people who 48 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: were you know, on the job market, but then you know, 49 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: got tired of applying for jobs and so aren't applying anymore. 50 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: How that will impact Black Friday sales? Are those people 51 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: saving or are they feeling like, oh, let me spend 52 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: during a time where there's more discounts. I don't know 53 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: how that psychology works. 54 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't think I know the psychology of any of it, 55 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: and I need help because I think I've seen a 56 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: lot of the like Doorbusters and the lines you know, 57 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: lining up in advance that's gone away, but there are 58 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: digital substitutes for that, like where it says twenty three 59 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: people have this in their car, and I'm like, I 60 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: better hurry up and check out. 61 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: Is that a thing? Is that real? Is something wrong 62 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: with me? 63 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: Every time there's something wrong with both of us. 64 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: I think we have to get into it because it 65 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: feels like it's a little bit of economics and psychology 66 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: tied together. 67 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: Mine all my money, money on my mind. 68 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: There you go. 69 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: For today's lab we're looking at Black Friday. And I 70 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: know people sometimes think like, oh what I buy is 71 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: my business and you know there's no science to it, 72 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: but I don't think so we have to look at 73 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: like free shipping and there's only three left, Like why. 74 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: Do those things hijack our brains? 75 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: And what's happening? Especially when I get an email that 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: says I left something in my car? It works every time, 77 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: it works every time. I'm like that poor little item 78 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: I needed. 79 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: So we're here to get some answers about that. 80 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 4: My name is done. Really, I'm a professor of psychology 81 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 4: and behavior economics at university, and I do research on 82 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 4: human irusianality and just kind of to help us think 83 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 4: about human irrationality. I think about what gets us to 84 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: act in ways that we don't know and don't seem 85 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 4: to be logical. Now, I don't mean that they are 86 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 4: not logical, but they're not the standard logic. 87 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: How people behave around spending really varies with a personal person. 88 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: I know me as a key, are not spending the same, 89 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: We're not spending the same. I'm fast and furious with it. 90 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: My friends, she's cold and calculated. But what types of 91 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: questions are you answering in your work? Like what can 92 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: we learn from your work? 93 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: I try to uncover what is the logic by which 94 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 4: we work, and the logic is often interesting and curious 95 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 4: and not consistent. So for example, you could say, why 96 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 4: would we stand in line for forty five minutes to 97 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 4: get a cone of Ben and Jerry's ice cream? That's 98 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 4: what cost us to dollars. It doesn't make sense rationally, 99 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 4: but when you think about the allure free and so on, 100 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 4: you can understand what it is. So there's a logic 101 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: to what we do as human beings, just that the 102 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 4: logic is not the we calculate, we trade off, and 103 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 4: we do we do the writing. So that's that's the 104 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 4: kind of thing that I try to uncover. 105 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: H So this is a study of the human mind 106 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: and how it makes decisions. 107 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 4: My metaphor for the human mind is that it's a 108 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 4: vintage Swiss army knife. Two parts Swiss army knife and vintage. 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 4: Let's start with the Swiss army knife part. The Swiss 110 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 4: army knife is kind of okay in lots of things, 111 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 4: but it's not really excellent in anything. It's greatness come 112 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 4: from the fact that there's lots of tools that can 113 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: do lots of different things, and our mind is a 114 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 4: little bit like that too, not particularly excellent in anything, 115 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 4: quite okay in lots of things, and we can carry 116 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 4: it with us. It's a vintage Sweet Sarmon knife. And 117 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 4: what I mean by that is that our set of 118 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 4: tools in our mind to deal with the world evolved 119 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 4: in a very different evolutionary period. We were roaming the savannah, 120 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 4: we were dealing with hunting, we were dealing with lions. 121 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 4: Money is a new invention. We were not evolutionary designed 122 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 4: to deal with money. We don't have a detector in 123 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 4: our brain to figure out money. We think about compound 124 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 4: interest and so on. So when we come to deal 125 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 4: with money, we have these ancient tools that are were 126 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: never that good. 127 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: I like the vintage Swiss army knife. Yes, metaphor, because 128 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: we've talked about anxiety in today's world, like our brains 129 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: are not caught up to a cell phone and to 130 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: somebody texting you saying can we talk later? That feels 131 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: like the snake, you know, it feels like the terror 132 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: because we have these old systems. What are the consumer 133 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: issues that you think are could be it root costs 134 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: or brain but like what's affecting and hurting people the 135 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: most right now? 136 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 4: So you know, money is an amazing invention. It allows 137 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 4: society to move forward in all kinds of unbelievable ways. Right, 138 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 4: if we didn't have money, how society looks like. Right, 139 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 4: money is amazing. But money requires that we think about 140 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: opportunity costs. Money requires that we think about now versus later. 141 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 4: Spending now is unbelievably emotional. It really holds us and 142 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 4: we feel like something. We are not good at delaying rewards, 143 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 4: so we end up overspending now, sometimes even taking debt. 144 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 4: That brings us into the second problem, which is we're 145 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 4: not really good at understanding compound interest. In all of 146 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 4: the world, I would say the poverty trap is that 147 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 4: low income individuals take a loan at a high interest 148 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 4: rate and then it's very, very hard to escape. So 149 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 4: those are kind of fundamental about money. They're not about 150 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: shopping and so on, but they're fundamentally about money. The 151 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: other thing I would say is that we have not 152 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 4: yet figured out the way to make saving fun. Like 153 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 4: think about it. Shopping certainly fun, fun, Saving like it's 154 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: this invisible activity, like when was the last time you 155 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 4: went to your friends and you say tity, You wouldn't 156 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 4: believe it. I saved two thousand dollars and I found 157 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 4: a better insurance and I'm paying. It's not part of 158 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 4: the conversation. 159 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: It never is. Yes, And you know what that makes 160 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: me think about, based on what you were just saying, 161 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: how it's like way more fun to spend now rather 162 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: than think about spending later. It makes me think about 163 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: the buy now, pay later apps and things like that. Yes, 164 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 2: that is relatively new to our way of spending. There 165 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: were things like layaway you would get the wouldn't get 166 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 2: the product till you finished paying. But now you can 167 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: get the product you've only paid a little bit, and 168 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: then you keep paying until you've paid it off. In 169 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: simple terms, what's happening in our brains when we make 170 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: a purchase and get to split that into future payments, 171 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: and what mechanisms make the buy now, pay later feel 172 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: easier than a credit card? 173 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 4: Ye? So, so what happened with the buy now, pay 174 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: later is First of all, the terminology is very good, right. 175 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 4: It doesn't tell you pay much more later. It doesn't 176 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 4: say anything about the interest. It doesn't say buy things 177 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 4: you don't really need and pay for them later. The 178 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 4: world has a vast interest in something that is not 179 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 4: consistent with our best interest. In mind, Every coffee shop 180 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 4: wants to sell you another coffee. Every restaurant want to 181 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 4: sell you another dessert. Every supermarket want to send you 182 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 4: another cook Now you can go to the supermarket with 183 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 4: a plan what's called the shopping list. But the supermarket 184 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 4: also has a plan. 185 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 3: It does, it does. 186 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 4: And their plan is not the same as your plan, 187 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 4: and they control the environment. They decide what to put 188 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 4: it hige level and what to put it the checkout. 189 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 4: We live in the world in which people have plans 190 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 4: to part us from our money. And then there's all 191 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 4: kinds of tricks. So let's start with it, like the 192 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 4: most basic trick. The most basic trick is called a sale. 193 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 4: Imagine that there's a shirt for fifty dollars versus another 194 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 4: store the same shirt, and they say this used to 195 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 4: be one hundred dollars and now it's on fifty percent 196 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 4: off and it's fifty dollars. Now why, like, when you 197 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: think about sale, a sale, something is it's fifty Why 198 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: would you care what it used to cost at some 199 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 4: part time in the history? Right? You shouldn't. You should 200 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 4: say is this shirt worth this price to me? Yes? 201 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: Or no? 202 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 4: Why do we care that it used to be one 203 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 4: thousand dollars and now it's fifty, but we do why 204 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 4: would we do a deal? That's right? That's right. What 205 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 4: happens is that we have a really hard time assessing value. 206 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: If I show you a shirt, I say, how much 207 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 4: is it worth? I don't really know, very hard to 208 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 4: figure out. But if it used to be one hundred 209 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 4: dollars and now it's fifty, it's probably a good deal. 210 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 4: So it's kind of a lazy way to compute value 211 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 4: without thinking about how valuable is another show to you. Now, 212 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 4: when you pay for something, you should care about what 213 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 4: it is that you're getting, but we don't. Why it's 214 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 4: very hard to estimate the value of what we're getting, 215 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 4: so we estimate other things, like how much work has 216 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 4: gone into that. 217 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: So as a freelancer doing different work, the better I 218 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: get at moving through projects, I have people on standby 219 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: that I can subcontract out to help. 220 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: I feel like when it took. 221 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: A long time and there was a lot of back 222 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: and forth, but really I didn't know what I was doing. 223 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: At that point. 224 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: People were like, oh, you've worked so hard, and now 225 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: they're like, you turn this around in twenty four hours. 226 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: We charge you this, sir, but also you didn't have 227 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: to wait consider this, you know. 228 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 4: And that's and that's because that's because the question is 229 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: you think that people can assess the real value of 230 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 4: your work, but they can't, so so they assess efforts. 231 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 4: So there's this story wait. 232 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: For thinking they can do it, or then from that VNA. 233 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 4: Because because you know, if you if you go back 234 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 4: to the vintage twist army knife, they are not equipped 235 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 4: with a way to evaluate your work, so they're evaluating 236 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 4: something else. There's a there's this story that Picasso is 237 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 4: sitting on a bench and a woman come and says, Picasso, 238 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 4: I'm a huge fan. Would you draw a picture of 239 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 4: painting of me? And he takes his pen and does 240 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: this thing, and in thirty seconds she has this thing 241 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 4: and she looks at it. She said, you know what, 242 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 4: you have captured my essence. I don't know how you 243 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 4: do it, Like there's only one line and you've captured 244 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 4: my essence. He said, how much is it? And it 245 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 4: says it's five hundred dollars. He says five hundred dollars 246 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 4: for thirty seconds. No, no, it's five hundred dollars for thirty 247 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: years and thirty seconds. 248 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, my experience over time. 249 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: That's right. Now, we can say that, but the truth 250 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 4: is it's really hard. Fairness and effort are very much, 251 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 4: deeply embedded in us, and we use them as the 252 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 4: strategy to evaluate things. 253 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: We said a lot about Black Friday and shopping and 254 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: spending money, but I feel like not everything can be 255 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: completely bad. There's always a little bit of good there, right, 256 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,119 Speaker 2: no absolute evil, Like, what's the silver lining. 257 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: On this h chaotic evil? Chaotic good? 258 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 4: Black Friday is very special. It's one day of the year. 259 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 4: It's one day of the year. Now, imagine that you 260 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 4: went on an expensive meal. Imagine that usually you go 261 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 4: out and you spend one hundred dollars on dinner and 262 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 4: you buy the second chip this morning on the menu. 263 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 4: Imagine that on some Tuesday, at some point you decide 264 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 4: to double your restaurant spending and double the wine. What 265 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 4: are the odds? So it was Tuesday, what's the odds 266 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 4: that the following Tuesday you will not say to yourself, 267 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 4: maybe I'm a two hundred dollars per dinner person, not 268 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 4: one hundred dollars person. So the point I want to 269 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 4: make is, then when we deviate from a regular strategy, 270 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: an upscale on a regular Tuesday, there's no guarantee that 271 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: we will not do it again and again and again 272 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 4: on the next Tuesday. 273 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: This is what happened to me becoming friends with tt 274 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: on Tuesday. She's just she's just led me to a 275 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: life of extravagance instead of a. 276 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 4: One time they go. But imagine that you only met 277 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 4: her and became extravagant with her one day a year. Now, 278 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 4: it would not become a routine. So one of the 279 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 4: things we showed is that when people increased the amount 280 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 4: of spending and quality of their spending on a regular Tuesday, 281 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 4: there's a big chance it would become a habit. When 282 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 4: they do it on a very special day, Oh, I'm 283 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 4: only doing it on my birthday or Valentine's Day or 284 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 4: Black Friday, then it remains constrained. So I think that actually, 285 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 4: you know, we spend too much, we waste, we spend 286 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 4: in lines too much. I mean, there's all kinds of 287 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 4: things to talk about the negative side, but I think 288 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 4: there's also some think protective on saying I'm responsible most 289 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 4: of the year, and I'm going to pick a day 290 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 4: in the year to be less responsible, and because it's 291 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 4: this day, that everybody does on the same day and 292 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 4: so on. It would protect me from being irresponsible throughout 293 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 4: the year. 294 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of spending, Like Sophora is 295 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 2: a store that sells makeup and hair stuff and they 296 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 2: have Sephora Day where they say all their prices are 297 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: going down, and all of these influencers that now I'm 298 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: convinced they're being paid to do these videos, get on 299 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: social media and say this is what you should should 300 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: buy during the Sephora sale. This is my favorite foundation, 301 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 2: this is my favorite mascara, this is my favorite shampoo, 302 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: this is my favorite conditioner. I've listed everything for you. 303 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: These are the most amazing products and they're going to 304 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 2: be on discount on Sophora Day. And you see so 305 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: many of those videos you start to feel like, oh am, 306 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: I going to miss out on the opportunity by the 307 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: saying will it be sold out? And so it feels 308 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: like with social media and influencer culture, it's making people 309 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: have this fear of missing out and then spending money 310 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: that they typically wouldn't spend. 311 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 4: So, just to be clear what we talked about the 312 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 4: benefits of Black Friday, that it doesn't apply to Sepphori day. 313 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 3: That's right, you tell her. 314 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 4: And the reason and the reason is that the way 315 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 4: that our mind works is that this is a day 316 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 4: we go a little extra crazy spending, but it's only 317 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 4: on that day. But if you do sphor a day, 318 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 4: it's basically like you just spent on one day of 319 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: the year, but there'll be other days in other places. 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 4: And you basically are opening yourself up to say I'm 321 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 4: a sucker for special days day. 322 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: Now, and they're doing the stories, are doing it often enough. 323 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 2: Every week is a special. 324 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 4: But let's talk about the thing you described. A UNI 325 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 4: described a version of something that is going away, and 326 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 4: that's called scarcity. You said, it's a day. The next day, 327 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 4: I would feel bad about it. Right, it's basically how 328 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 4: does it work, it says, And there's not a lot 329 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 4: of it, there's just some of it. Whatever is available 330 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 4: will go away. It will not be to the next day. 331 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 4: And scarcity gets us to think in a different way. Right, 332 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 4: if you say, oh, this, this makeup would always be 333 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: there at this price, you would say not interested, get 334 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: it next time. But this makeup is going tomorrow. Now 335 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 4: you start thinking, what if tomorrow I will decide I 336 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 4: want it and it will be not available. I would 337 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 4: feel terrible. I don't want to feel terrible, so let 338 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 4: me buy it now so that I will not feel terrible. 339 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: So scarcity is another really interesting trick. It's called counterfactual thinking. 340 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 4: You say, what if I will want it and it 341 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 4: will not be there? I would say to myself, I 342 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 4: was not careful. I didn't think why I didn't buy it, 343 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 4: and therefore we buy it. I'll give you an example 344 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 4: where this is really strong. 345 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 3: Oh that's what I want to hear about. 346 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 4: You go and buy a new electronics. Let's say it's 347 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: a big screen TV, standard American thing to do on 348 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 4: Black Prides, and the salesperson says, tity, this TV is 349 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 4: not coming with an extended warranty. The warranty is just 350 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 4: for a year. How would you feel if a year 351 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 4: and three days from now, few of this a little 352 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 4: part of the screen did not work so well and 353 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 4: you did not buy the extended warranty? How would you feel? 354 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 4: And you think to yourself, I would feel very stupid. Yes, 355 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 4: I would say, why on that Black Friday didn't I 356 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 4: buy the extended warranty when the person offered it to me? 357 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 4: So you say, you know what at the extended on. 358 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 4: Many of those places make more money on the extended 359 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 4: warranty that they make on the electronic themselves. Because the 360 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 4: electronics we compare, we think about, and so on they 361 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 4: extended warranty. It's kind of an emotional buy on top 362 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 4: of something. 363 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 2: All this just makes me think about girl math, like 364 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: I was talking about before, and so that is the 365 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: mental gymnastics that I do that allows me to feel 366 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: like spending my money isn't so bad. You know, Like 367 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: if I'm returning something and then I get store credit 368 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: and I get something else with that store credit, that's 369 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: something else that I just bought is free. 370 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 3: Okay, that's a direct line. 371 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: That's not how that works. 372 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 4: One other interesting place where we do mistakes with money 373 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 4: is what's called the pain of paying. So imagine that 374 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 4: tonight you go to dinner. Imagine expensive dinner that's a 375 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 4: two hundred dollars and you can either pay with cash 376 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 4: or with credit card, which one would feel worse. 377 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: Cash Why, I don't know, I have no idea, but 378 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: it does. 379 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 4: It turns out that the thing that is worse with 380 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 4: cash is the timing of the payment and the consumption 381 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 4: that when we pay with a credit card, we pay 382 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: some time later. When we prepay, we buy like a 383 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 4: gift certificate, we pay way in advance. If you go 384 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 4: to a restaurant with the gift certificate, it feels great. 385 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 4: It feels free. When when you pay later it doesn't 386 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 4: feel as bad. Paying at the time of consumption feels 387 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 4: very bad. 388 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: Now. 389 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 4: The pain of paying is about this idea that when 390 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: we part with money, it's not just about opportunity costs 391 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 4: and so on. There's some almost like a moral cost. 392 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 4: And the more cost has to do with how do 393 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 4: we feel at the moment of spending. So things like 394 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 4: credit cards are protecting us from feeling bad. Apple pay, 395 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: Google Pay. Even worse, we don't even understand what work 396 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 4: what we're spending. So a good piece of advice for 397 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 4: Black Friday is to say, make a plan of what 398 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 4: you want to buy. That's number one, right, Buying things 399 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 4: is fine. Just make sure it's what you want, not 400 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 4: what somebody else wants. And then and then the second 401 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 4: thing is take the amount of money that you want 402 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 4: to take out and spend that amount. Wow, right, make 403 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: sure you don't go over it. 404 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 3: I like that. 405 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 4: That's that's very very important because the credit card is 406 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 4: kind of numbing the pain of pain. Yes, And what 407 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 4: you want to do is you want to feel the 408 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 4: pain of pain. You want to say the pain of 409 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 4: pain is basically getting anything. Do I really want this 410 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 4: or not? You want that? 411 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: Thought? 412 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 4: So that's also an important element, like the payment method 413 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 4: has an impact on how we feel about the payment. 414 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: There are always viral videos and then the recaps with 415 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: strong opinions on going out to eat with a group 416 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: and what happens when the bill arrives, because some folks 417 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: don't want to split the bill evenly because they're on 418 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: a budget, and they're like, I only had an appetizer 419 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: and water and it if you going out with tit, 420 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: she's having lobster the entree as the appetizer and a 421 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: cocktail okay, and sometimes more than one. 422 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: If it's more than one, help us. 423 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: We're gonna have fun tonight. 424 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: But why do people get all cagy and weird and 425 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: talking about they don't want to be friends? 426 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 3: And somebody ordered too mini apps? 427 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: Like what is it about meal time and the bill 428 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: that makes us turn on each other? 429 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: You're not yourself when you're hungry or after you just 430 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: ate it things. 431 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 4: When we do research, we try to isolate every element, 432 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 4: and in real life many times there are multiple elements 433 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 4: at the same time. So this story starts with escalating spending. Yes, 434 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 4: you think you'll come to do appetizers, and restaurants are 435 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 4: good at that, right, And if there's alcohol, inhibition goes 436 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 4: down and you say, oh, yes, So restaurants are excellent 437 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 4: in getting us not to think about rices and just 438 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 4: to think about food. And there's a social element of 439 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 4: somebody's ordering, and when it's unclear who is paying for it, 440 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 4: there's like shying away from responsibility. Right, it's like a 441 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 4: mob behavior. Who is responsible? I don't really know who 442 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 4: ordered all of this, And because you didn't say everybody, 443 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 4: it's equals splitting or something that people are kind of. 444 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 4: It's like a mob behavior basically. So when it's the 445 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 4: same group of friend going, I really like the approach 446 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 4: of one person buying for everybody and alternating who is 447 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 4: the person buying. If she would have said to people, 448 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 4: send me the money your share, people would have because 449 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 4: she paid, and we are kind of wired for reciprocity, 450 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 4: it could be very hard to walk from her. 451 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: Is there anything that you feel like this is one 452 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: piece that people need to know like even if it's 453 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: not Black Friday, but just holiday vibes, Like we get 454 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: in a holiday spirit and that goes longer than one day. 455 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 3: Like is there anything you want people to be thinking about? 456 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 4: So there are two other things I want people to 457 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 4: think about as we get closer to the holidays. The 458 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 4: first thing is that it is better to save for 459 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 4: dis questionary spending than to borrow. So if you plan 460 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 4: for the holiday season, try to save the money so 461 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 4: you have it in advance and then spend it rather 462 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 4: than spend it and then hope to pay it later. Now, 463 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 4: the last thing I want to say is, you know, 464 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 4: we talked about the pain of pain. One of the 465 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 4: things that the pain of pain teaches us is also 466 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 4: something about what is a good gift? So the question 467 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 4: of what is a good gift, there's lots of is 468 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 4: to think about it, but one way that comes from 469 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 4: the pain of pain is the good gift is a 470 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 4: gift that somebody wants but feel guilty buying for themselves. 471 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 4: So imagine you walk down the street and you see 472 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 4: a hat and it's a beautiful hat, and you're not 473 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 4: the head person. You never had the hat, but you're curious. 474 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 4: You go in the store, you put it on your head. 475 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 4: It's beautiful, you like the color of the shape, but 476 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 4: you look at the price tag and it's crazy expensive, 477 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 4: and you said to yourself, I'm not the had person. 478 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 4: I'm not going to buy this hat. And you get 479 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 4: home and you find out that your significant other bought 480 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 4: you that exact head from your joint checking account. How 481 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 4: do you feel? Most people say I feel gratitude. I 482 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 4: don't say to her, honey, you know I looked at 483 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 4: this hat and decide not to buy it. Please return 484 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 4: it to the store and put the money back into 485 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 4: a checking count. Example for something that people want but 486 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 4: feel guilty about buying, and a good you know, like 487 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 4: between friends, Like I don't need to give my friends money, 488 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: like I wouldn't directly deposit money into the checking account. 489 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 4: I want to do something for them that they would 490 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 4: do themselves. So something that people feel guilty about. 491 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: Tit does this for me very nice. 492 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: I do it for all the people that I love. 493 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, I wouldn't need this for me, but here's 494 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: five hundred dollars for a spot. 495 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 4: Ay when we did a study on gifts, and what 496 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 4: we learned was that gift givers don't want to take risks, 497 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 4: but the people who get the gifts often wish that 498 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 4: people took more more risks. And I think, you know, 499 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 4: if I give you a gift, I want you to 500 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 4: think about me. I want that gift to be a 501 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 4: mechanism for us to start caring more about each other. 502 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 4: I'm not giving you a gift because you can't. You 503 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 4: don't have enough money to buy a bottle of wine, 504 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 4: and I need to subsidize that. So real gifts, not 505 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 4: gifts that you know, you eat a bar of chocolate 506 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 4: and it goes away. Real gifts, it takes a risk. 507 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 4: You buy somebody hat, you buy them a drum set, 508 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 4: you get them a chair. It's risky, yeah, but the 509 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 4: risk has payoff in terms of friendship. 510 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: I found this so interesting because it really made me 511 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: rethink the way that I think about spending, Like maybe 512 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 2: I should stop doing all this girl math and really 513 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: just save my money. And have you know these special 514 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 2: days where I'm spending rather than making every day a 515 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: special day? 516 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think every time we have an 517 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: episode that shows me how the brain betrays me. My 518 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: brain doesn't know what to do with money, of course, 519 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, and we didn't even get into the like 520 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: emotional ties with money as much as we could have. 521 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: There's so much there. There's so much also historical things 522 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: like what you learned from your family, what your friends do. 523 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: It's expensive to be friends with t T y'all. 524 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 2: Don't lie. It's very expensive to be as the kid's friend. Listen, 525 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: it is very expensive. You must like carry on, we're 526 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: just peasing a poe. 527 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: I want to know you know, now that we know 528 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: Black Friday isn't so bad. I want to hear from 529 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: our listeners like, what are y'all getting? Are you getting anything? 530 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: What's your take? Is there a special thing you've been 531 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: saving up for all year? Have you seen a really 532 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: good deal? Do you think good deals still exists? 533 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 2: And also send me the links in the DM because 534 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: maybe I want that thing too. 535 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: I've learned nothing, nothing, y'all. 536 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: You see how hard it is to change your mind. 537 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope Labs. 538 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: Podcast TT is on X and Instagram, at d R 539 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: Underscore T. 540 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 2: S h O, and you can find Zakiya at z 541 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: said so. 542 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 3: Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. 543 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and our producer is 544 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: Issara Acevez. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed 545 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: by James farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and 546 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is 547 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: Katrina Norbel. 548 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 3: Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. 549 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: Original music composed and produced by Takayasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, 550 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 2: with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive 551 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Watte.