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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be nothing new here for you. But

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Welcomes it could happen here.

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Speaker 3: I am Andrew of Future Channal Andreism, and I'm here with.

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Speaker 4: Oh wait without the Q. Oh no, yeah, it's ties

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Speaker 4: me and Mia Long. I'm also here at apparently missing

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Speaker 4: cues instantly.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: It is barbarically early for me, So.

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Speaker 2: Yay, b barically What time is it?

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Speaker 4: Ten o'clock?

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Speaker 2: Well, come on, come on, come on, come on.

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Speaker 4: Look, it would have been fine if it wasn't up

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Speaker 4: till three am last night dealing with a session of

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Speaker 4: minor crises.

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Speaker 2: Damn, that's unfortunate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all right.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like

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Speaker 3: flexed my early bird supremacy.

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Speaker 2: But you know.

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Speaker 3: I have enough since like seven sixth day or something

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Speaker 3: like that. It'so a whole job now, but I just

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Speaker 3: didn't do a lng of this one. And yeah, so

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Speaker 3: today I wanted to shed light on some really interesting history.

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Speaker 3: I think of the anarchist movement in Egypt. I've read

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Speaker 3: in this book called Anarchism and Syndicalism in the Colonial

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Speaker 3: and Post Colonial World, and there's a section by a

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Speaker 3: guy named Anthony Gorman that I found really interested in

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Speaker 3: I just had to share.

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Speaker 2: It's really specific.

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Speaker 3: To the anarchist Egypt anarchist history of like the late

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Speaker 3: nineteenth and early twentieth century, And honest I find that

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Speaker 3: whole period to be very interesting, actually because I am

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Speaker 3: a dreaded Paradox Games fan and I enjoy my little

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Speaker 3: you know, like you three, you know, like that that

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Speaker 3: period in history. Honestly, any period of history prior to

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Speaker 3: World War Two I find interesting. Everything World War two

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Speaker 3: is just like a complete boat to me, and then

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Speaker 3: everything past World War two.

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Speaker 2: Is like cool.

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Speaker 3: But it seemed like the World War two period itself

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Speaker 3: not my thing, you know, Like tell me about the Phoenicians,

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Speaker 3: talking about the Phrygians, talking about the Carthaginians, But I

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Speaker 3: don't really care about the axis, and which tank was

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Speaker 3: the superior tank and.

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Speaker 2: All those different things.

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Speaker 3: A lot of these couldn't got history buffs into not

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Speaker 3: to a personal one cereal of course, whatever you know

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Speaker 3: floats your boat. But for me, I really like that

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Speaker 3: pre WORL War II sort of stuff and Victorian eras

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Speaker 3: one particularly interesting point in history, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: things will.

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Speaker 2: Happen in that time.

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Speaker 3: Industrial revolution was shaken up around the world, Colonization was

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Speaker 3: going on, and the effects of that, but you know,

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Speaker 3: reverberate for centuries to.

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Speaker 2: Come, and.

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Speaker 3: The true successor to the Roman Empire, in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: the Ottoman Empire was kind of going through a series

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Speaker 3: of crises, and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire

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Speaker 3: and then Brook free of the Ottoa Empire, had its

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Speaker 3: own stuff going on. So I don't want to get

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Speaker 3: too much into that whole mess, but I want to

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Speaker 3: give some context because you know, this isn't this is

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Speaker 3: a history episode. It might be a two part history

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Speaker 3: episode in fact, So let's just start back.

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Speaker 2: In the late nineteenth century.

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Speaker 3: So there's this foreign work in community in Egypt thanks

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Speaker 3: to Muhammad Ali no relation, and he was the ruler

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Speaker 3: of Egypt from eighteen o five to eighteen forty nine.

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Speaker 3: This guy was all about modernizing stuff like the military,

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Speaker 3: the state administration, and the economy. So he invited skilled

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Speaker 3: folks to come to Egypt and lend their labor.

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Speaker 4: Oh, isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a

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Speaker 4: little bit?

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Speaker 2: I think so? I think so.

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Speaker 3: I mean, who didn't Napoleon fight? I'm sure if he

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Speaker 3: could have, Napoleon would have fought.

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Speaker 4: Like the dinosaurs, Napoleon fighting Cavement on the moon like.

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Speaker 3: And speaking of Napoleon, I really don't appreciate how I mean,

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Speaker 3: no disrespect to hawqu In Phoenix, but was Napoleon like

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Speaker 3: in his twenties when he rose up the ranks military

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Speaker 3: and all that.

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 3: I could be mistaken, I could be confused him with

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Speaker 3: the other Napoleon. But I'm pretty sure Napoleon was not

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Speaker 3: the old man when he was making a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of the moves he was making. Let's see again, I

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Speaker 2: could be wrong.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was more in seventeen seventeen sixteen. I'm leaving

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm leaving the maths of this as an exercise

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Speaker 4: for the reader.

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Speaker 3: What really through his new office that there's like multiple

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Speaker 3: Napoleons and so I mix up the histories of the

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Speaker 3: different Napoleons. Reasonable, But if it wasn't that Napoleon, I

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Speaker 3: know for sure one of the Napoleon's in question was

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Speaker 3: like relatively young when he was making some of his moves,

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Speaker 3: like in his early to mid twenties when he's rising

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Speaker 3: up the ranks kind of thing. Yeah, but I could

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Speaker 3: be entirely mistake, and I'm sure somebody will correct me.

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Speaker 3: None of this is relevant to what this episode is about.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so Muhammed Ali again no relation. His successors,

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Speaker 3: Sayid and Ismail, took things to the next level after

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Speaker 3: he passed on with some major infrastructure projects. They were

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Speaker 3: building railways, they were expanding canals, they were gonwa the

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Speaker 3: urban development, and they need a bunch of skilled workers

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Speaker 3: for a lot of that. So they brought in Italians, Greeks, Syrians, Dalmatians,

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Speaker 3: and of course they use their local Egyptian laborers as well.

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Speaker 3: Many of those workers came to work on the famous

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Speaker 3: Suez Canal, of course, and that required a massive workforce.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, many of them died. Yeah, canal dinging, like like

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Speaker 4: canal digging.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if female high immortality rate profession.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like you might as well dig your own

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Speaker 4: grave too, like like dig it before you start, so

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Speaker 4: they can bury your body halfway through.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's like not gallows humor. It's like canal humor.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like we're dig this canal. We're going

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Speaker 3: to die here anyway. It's kind of similar thing I

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Speaker 3: could in the Panama Canal, although in that case they

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Speaker 3: brought in a lot of Beesian and other Caribbean workers

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Speaker 3: to Yeah, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, set that up.

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Speaker 3: And actually the Panama now is responsible for, like what's

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Speaker 3: responsible for I think a third of the Beasian economy

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Speaker 3: at one point because the remittances they were being sent

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Speaker 3: back to their families at home. That's a whole different

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Speaker 3: chapter in history. But yeah, so this this massive and

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Speaker 3: diverse workforce is bringing, of course, not just their labor,

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Speaker 3: but ideas, because whenever you get people together, they start talking.

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Speaker 3: Egypt was already considered something of a place of refuge

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Speaker 3: for political exiles, so it's not very surprising that anarchism

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Speaker 3: was starting to gain popularity around that time, particularly with

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Speaker 3: the Italians in Egypt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing in this period

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Speaker 4: is like you can literally track the spread of anarchism,

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Speaker 4: like by where there are a bunch of Italians in

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Speaker 4: Argentina too, It's like anywhere there are Italians, anarchy spreads.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's a me anarchism. Yeah, that's that's gonna

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Speaker 3: set somebody off. My apology is to the Italian community.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't have said that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah they had, They hadn't invented fascism yet. This is

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Speaker 4: back when the Italians were still cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm probably gonna get a letter hopefully.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's nothing else what's attached to it. Italians

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Speaker 3: already had a history with the anarchist movement as we know.

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Speaker 2: I mean some people would.

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Speaker 3: Of course, you're familiar with folks like eric co mana tester,

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Speaker 3: so there's no surprises there. Label and political radicalism court

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Speaker 3: sparks first in the Italian Worker Society or Society Operao

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Speaker 3: Italiana in eighteen sixty, which was formed to look out

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Speaker 3: for the interests of its members, and later on in

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Speaker 3: the mid eighteen seventies you had these veterans from Gary

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Speaker 3: Bali's campaigns, and by the way, Gary Bali is one

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Speaker 3: of the figures responsible for the Italian unification. And then

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Speaker 3: you also had other radicals, forming Thought and Action, a

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Speaker 3: political association with Massinian principles. Messini, by the way, Giuseppe

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Speaker 3: Mussini was an Italian Republican who advocated for liberty and

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Speaker 3: democracy and class collaboration and all that. Jazz Marx once

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Speaker 3: called him an everlastin old ass which is just really

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Speaker 3: funny and I had to include that there. He's just

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Speaker 3: like me for real anyway. And then in eighteen seventy

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Speaker 3: six more radical splinter group became an official section of

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Speaker 3: the First International in Alexandria, which is one of the

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Speaker 3: earliest attempts to create a worldwide association of workers and

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Speaker 3: socialist groups. I don't know if it could happen. He

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Speaker 3: has ever discussed, like the history of the International.

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Speaker 2: It's before but it gets messy, Oh god, it's yeah,

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Speaker 2: it gets.

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Speaker 3: Messy, It gets cattie, it gets like we had to

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Speaker 3: spill that tea at some point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fucking wild, like especially especially once you get

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Speaker 4: into like the seventeen different Fourth Internationals, and it's a

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Speaker 4: time like the the Second International is such a disaster

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Speaker 4: that Hoseny Mubarik is part of it when he gets

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Speaker 4: overthrown like it's a it's it's it's a good time.

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Speaker 4: And by a good time, I mean an incredibly bad time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I just have to throw my head back and

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Speaker 3: laugh quite hotly when I hear folks talking about, you know,

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Speaker 3: why can't they left unite?

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Speaker 2: You know, like where's the leftist unity?

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Speaker 3: Why can't we just come to like nah, this has

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Speaker 3: been taking place since nineteenth century.

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Speaker 4: My absolute favorite version of this is people being people taught,

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Speaker 4: people being like, Ah, mar Marx wouldn't want there to

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Speaker 4: have been so much discord on the left. It's like,

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Speaker 4: have you ever read any Marx like that? That is

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Speaker 4: a man who's writing is about sixty percent yelling at

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Speaker 4: someone whose ideas he's also stolen, like by volume. Like

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Speaker 4: one of his most famous, like one of the things

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Speaker 4: that you get designed to read from marks in college

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Speaker 4: is the German Ideology, which is like four hundred page

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Speaker 4: of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly

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Speaker 4: different than his. It's like like, this is this is

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Speaker 4: this is an ancient tradition.

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Speaker 3: The irony of Marx calling somebody else an avalastian old

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Speaker 3: ass will not be lost on me. And quite frankly,

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Speaker 3: this idea of oh Max wouldn't want this, Marx wouldn't

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Speaker 3: that really comes from that sort of messiahification of Marx.

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Speaker 2: I just coined that to him. You know, I could

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Speaker 2: send me my flowers in the.

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Speaker 3: Male because essentially what people are doing is treating Marx

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Speaker 3: and marx ideas and Marxism. It's just like Christianity two

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Speaker 3: point zero. You know, it's kind of like how you know,

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Speaker 3: people would have been saying, like, oh, Jesus wouldn't want

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Speaker 3: all this division in the church, except he just replacing

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Speaker 3: Jesus Marx and the chewch with the left.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Like Marx has this famous line where he goes like

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Speaker 4: if he's reponding to like the first like French Marxist,

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Speaker 4: and he goes, if this is Marxism, then I am

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Speaker 4: not a Marxist. Oh yeah, and then everyone proceeded to

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Speaker 4: ignore him but call themselves Marxists. Well this is great

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Speaker 4: things have gone.

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Speaker 2: This is yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean even in their lifetimes, all of these figures

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Speaker 3: that we respect now, they didn't really like the admirers,

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Speaker 3: like Mala Testa was quite embarrassed that he had fans.

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Speaker 4: I recall, yeah, no, it to be clear, to be clear,

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Speaker 4: that is that is the appropriate were actually having fans.

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Speaker 4: It is a terrifying thing, right sure, Flea and terror

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Speaker 4: exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: Back to Alexandria, right where the First International's first official section,

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Speaker 3: one of its sections came about. And it was one

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Speaker 3: of the earliest attempts to create a world wide association

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Speaker 3: of workers and socialist groups and expanded and it formed

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Speaker 3: sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia

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Speaker 3: or Ismailia Ismailia. And they even had the idea of

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Speaker 3: spreading socialist propaganda and different languages like Italian and Greek

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Speaker 3: and Turkish and Arabic to reach more folks in the

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Speaker 3: quote unquote East. They want to take the ideas of

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Speaker 3: the First International beyond chest European communities, you know, try

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Speaker 3: and reach out to the locals. Unfortunately, for those familiar

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Speaker 3: the history of the First International, it fizzled out, so

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Speaker 3: you know, they couldn't really fully execute their plans. But

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Speaker 3: you know, they got to get them credit for trying

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Speaker 3: to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis.

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Speaker 3: The military was pissed because of the disastrous Egypt to

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Speaker 3: European War. The upper ranks the civil service, the army,

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Speaker 3: in the business world had become dominated by Europeans, who

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Speaker 3: were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability

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Speaker 3: to service its debt from cost the infrastructure projects and

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Speaker 3: lavish spending by maayel It's rue at the time led

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Speaker 3: to European control over its treasury in eighteen seventy six

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Speaker 3: and other European treasure pressure. Ismayel was to pose in

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Speaker 3: eighteen seventy nine replace their son Telfiek, who aimed to

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Speaker 3: basically satisfy each his creditors by any means necessary. And

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Speaker 3: so this tumultuous political climate provided both challenges and opportunities

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Speaker 3: for the anarchists in Egypt. A revolt led by an

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Speaker 3: Egyptian officer of the Egyptian Army, Ahmed Urabi, sort of

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Speaker 3: deposed Telfik, establish a constitutional government and n British and

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Speaker 3: French influence over the country. Although he was characterized as

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Speaker 3: anti foreign, Urrabi received support from some foreign elements, including

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Speaker 3: the very same Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot

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Speaker 3: of the anarchists in the area. Now, as we know,

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Speaker 3: anarchists are not really advocates of nationalism, so they will

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Speaker 3: fight for national liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists foul

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Speaker 3: themselves on the same side when it came to fighting

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Speaker 3: against European imperialism in Egypt. So when the British were

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Speaker 3: causing trouble, anarchists like Malchester teamed up with nationalists led

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Speaker 3: by Urabi to resist foreign domination. However, the the British

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Speaker 3: and French governments, who were intent on protecting their investments

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Speaker 3: and nationals, confronted Urabi, which resulted in British forces bombard

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Speaker 3: in Alexandria and eventually occupying the country in eighteen eighty two.

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Speaker 3: Throughout the early years of British occupation, the anarchist movement

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Speaker 3: in Egypt faced both internal divisions and factionalism. Both internal

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Speaker 3: divisions and factionalism, similar to what was happening in other

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Speaker 3: parts of the world. Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy

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Speaker 3: comrades under the umbrella of the International during the eighteen seventies,

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Speaker 3: but the defection of a particularly locally influential figure named

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Speaker 3: Andrea Costa from libertarian socialism from libertarian Socialism in eighteen

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Speaker 3: seventy nine caused a significant schism.

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Speaker 2: Within the local movement.

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Speaker 3: Let me reread that so anarchists and socialists had been

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Speaker 3: uneasy comrades under the umbrella of the International during the

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Speaker 3: eighteen seventies, but the defection of one particularly locally influential

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Speaker 3: figure named Andrea Costa from the School of Libertarian Socialism

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Speaker 3: in eighteen seventy nine caused a significant schism within the

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Speaker 3: local movement, and the movement also suffered other interial divisions,

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Speaker 3: particularly with the enduring conflict between anti organizationalists and anarcho

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Speaker 3: syndicalists on the role of collective association in achieving anarchist

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Speaker 3: aims quote. Until the end of the nineteenth century, the

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Speaker 3: former trend appears to have been in the ascendency, but

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Speaker 3: the growth of the labor movement anarcho synicalists expanded their influence.

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Speaker 3: Other disputes reflected the power of personalities. Ugo Parini, a

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Speaker 3: key figure staunch anti organizationalist, was notorious for his uncompromising

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Speaker 3: style and was a persistent obstacle to create a cooperation

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Speaker 3: among anarchists. Not until after his death in nineteen oh

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Speaker 3: six was a national program of action agreed, which provided

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Speaker 3: a solid basis for collaboration within the Egyptian movement. Now,

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Speaker 3: I didn't find any rightings by Ugoprini himself to speak

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Speaker 3: his piece, but it sounds like he might have been

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Speaker 3: a e alas and old ass himself, if you know,

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Speaker 3: after the moment he died, they were able to finally

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Speaker 3: come together and come to agreement on something that means

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Speaker 3: pros like a significant obstacle to the organization of efforts.

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Speaker 3: But you know, he fought with his principles and he

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Speaker 3: died by them, so you know some respect there. So

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Speaker 3: until the end of nineteenth century, the anti organizationalists seem

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Speaker 3: to have had the upper hand, but with the growth

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Speaker 3: of the labor movement, anarchist syndicalists gained a lot more influence.

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Speaker 3: Tut tut leftist disunity strikes again. The real downside of

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Speaker 3: this history is that the anarchist movement was still quite

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Speaker 3: European and quite male, and the rights and nationalist movements

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Speaker 3: were not exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of

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Speaker 3: anarchists women, there was a women's section establishing Chiroage in

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Speaker 3: the eighteen seventies, so there was some female participation happening

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Speaker 3: as well. You know, it's the real, real barby moment.

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Speaker 3: There you know, real win for feminism. The ethnic diversity

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Speaker 3: of the anarchist movement in Egypt did expand over time,

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Speaker 3: though although Italians remained the dominant group until World War One,

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Speaker 3: they were one attracted Greeks, Jews, Germans, and various Eastern

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Speaker 3: European nationalities arabifhone. Egyptians also began to play a lot

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Speaker 3: more significant role, as seeing in the involvement in industrial actions,

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Speaker 3: educational activities, and anarchist meetings during the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 3: and the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as

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Speaker 3: diverse as the ethnicities. Skilled artisans, including carpenters, masons, tailors,

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Speaker 3: and painters were among the majority. Some came from the

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Speaker 3: petit bourgeoisie like cruisers and tabanawas, while others were involved

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Speaker 3: in trade or word for merchant hoses, and the movement

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Speaker 3: also include professionals like doctors, lawyers, and journalists. By the

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Speaker 3: late nineteenth century, the anarchistic community started to shift its

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Speaker 3: focus towards the new working class, such as cigarette workers, printers,

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Speaker 3: and employees of large utilities like tramway companies. However, despite

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Speaker 3: this diversity, and despite all the calls for internationalism. Local

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Speaker 3: nationalist associations still held a lot of power because they

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Speaker 3: provided their communities with welfare services and social events and

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Speaker 3: all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new

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00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 3: countries even today will typically like group together in enclaves

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Speaker 3: and communities to share their culture and to share their

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Speaker 3: support economic and otherwise, when in a situation where everyone

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Speaker 3: around you is perceived as foreign, and you can some

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Speaker 3: measure of security and say, if you know, what's a

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Speaker 3: cultural proscilation, that is a thing that immigrants tend to do,

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Speaker 3: and these workers were immigrants to Egypt, and so they

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Speaker 3: kind of did the same thing. Unfortunately, many of these

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Speaker 3: national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests in the Greek community.

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Speaker 3: For example, the powers of the bourgeois o higarchy in

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Speaker 3: funding and controlling community institutions really worked to keep workers

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Speaker 3: in line with what the authorities wanted, because if you

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Speaker 3: stepped out of line from what this oligarchy wanted, you know,

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Speaker 3: you kind of like lose access to those essential community institutions.

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Speaker 3: And if you try, if you still have like a

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Speaker 3: family to take care of, a family that you might

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Speaker 3: have brought to Egypt or started in Egypt, or really

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Speaker 3: just struggling against meat or you know, your fish out

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Speaker 3: of water and you don't really know any other languages,

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Speaker 3: you just know your own people. To be isolated like

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Speaker 3: that is really hazard a situation to be in, and

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Speaker 3: so that's how they kept people in line. But that's

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Speaker 3: in terms of the European nowists. There's also some rise

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Speaker 3: in Egyptian nationalism. They also had some sway originally Egyptian

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Speaker 3: nationalists called signs of militant labor as part of a

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Speaker 3: European disease an alien Egyptian context, which, by the way,

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Speaker 3: I've noticed a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Right wing organizations and movements.

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Speaker 3: Tend to apply that pseudo anti imperial label to things,

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Speaker 3: so you would see it with for example, some right

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Speaker 3: wing African nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality

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Speaker 3: in the country as a consequence of European imperialism. European

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Speaker 3: cludism is completely foreign to any kind of African context,

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Speaker 3: history or whatever, which.

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Speaker 2: Is entirely false. But they do use that sort of like.

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Speaker 3: False anti imperialism to build up their power base and

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Speaker 3: build up their reactionary base, So it's a partner. You

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Speaker 3: can't observe a lot of these right Way movements and

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Speaker 3: particularly global South right way movements. Interestingly, though the Egyptian

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Speaker 3: nationalists who were calling in militant labor European disease, the

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Speaker 3: opinions turned around kind of quick when they saw how

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Speaker 3: potent it was for exercise and power. In nineteen oh nine,

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Speaker 3: the Watani Party openly backed the formation of the Manual

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Speaker 3: Trades Workers Union, which was a diverse body of Egyptian

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Speaker 3: urban workers, because they recognized the party finally recognized both

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Speaker 3: the need to constitute a broader national community and the

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Speaker 3: political potential of the workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now,

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Speaker 3: before the different nationalists came around on this, the anarcho

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00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: Synicolists had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers

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Speaker 3: into their internationalists anarchist struggle. They knew how They knew

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Speaker 3: that to make a real impact they had to connect

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Speaker 3: with native Egyptian workers.

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Speaker 2: But it's a thing, you know.

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Speaker 3: The international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many

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Speaker 3: occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians, and

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Speaker 3: many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans,

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Speaker 3: so forming those unions was easier, said than done, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they

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Speaker 3: saw the importance of promoting lab organization and militancy among

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Speaker 3: the Egyptian working class, and so when the cab drivers

397
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 3: and Alexandria went on strike in nineteen oh three, the

398
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 3: anarchists were there to gas them up. The anarchists who,

399
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: of course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common,

400
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 3: the lack of boundaries that labor has that doesn't care

401
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 3: for things like nationality, or religion or race, that all

402
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the

403
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 3: same aspirations for their well being. Of course, the nationalists

404
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: had their own political visions, so while anarchists emphasized international

405
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: solidarity and shared interests, nationalists will resort into nativist appeals

406
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Speaker 3: and organizational tactics to splinter the labor movement and break

407
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Speaker 3: up at internationalist orientation. To give them some credit, though,

408
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 3: the Returning Party did recognize the importance of allying with

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Speaker 3: foreign workers and urged Egyptian workers during the Trams strike

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Speaker 3: of nineteen eleven to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase

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Speaker 3: your numbers through combination and through unity with the European workers,

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Speaker 3: your comrades, and let me get to nineteen nineteen and

413
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Speaker 3: the quote unquote nineteen nineteen revolution. It's kind of a

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Speaker 3: significant moment in Egyptian history, and anarchists were there, so

415
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 3: let's talk about it. In nineteen nineteen, the British government

416
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: imposed new taxes and restrictions on civil liberties, which further

417
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: fewel the discontent and united Egyptians from various social, economic,

418
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Speaker 3: and political backgrounds. The spark that ignited the revolution was

419
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Speaker 3: a deportation of Egyptian nationalist leaders Sad Saglu and other

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Speaker 3: political figures by the British authorities for opposing their policies. Irresponse,

421
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Speaker 3: massive protests erupted across the country, with strikes, demonstrations, and

422
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Speaker 3: civil disobedience becoming widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life,

423
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Speaker 3: including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement.

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Speaker 3: They were influenced, in part by the strategies and tactics

425
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Speaker 3: of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at

426
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Speaker 3: the time. The revolution gained momentum and the demands of

427
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution,

428
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Speaker 3: and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially

429
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: tried to suppress the protests with force, which of course

430
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 3: led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resilience and

431
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 3: unity of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government

432
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Speaker 3: to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength

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Speaker 3: of the nationalist movement. In nineteen twenty two, the United

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00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 3: Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence. Do the British continue to

435
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: exude considerable influence over Egyptian affairs, One could argue that

436
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,959
Speaker 3: the specter of anarchism would raise its head again in

437
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: Egypt's history, particularly during the Hour of Spring in twenty eleven,

438
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 3: when anarchic tactics can be found across the Middle East

439
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: and North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking

440
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: more about what anarchists would doin in Egypt in the

441
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 3: late nineteenth and the twentieth centuries. But for now, I

442
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: hope that today's anarchists in Egypt and elsewhere can keep

443
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: the flame of freedom burning or power to all the

444
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 3: people peace. Oh one, this has been Andrew. You can

445
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: follow me on eat dot com, slash Andrewism and support

446
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 3: the Patreon, a picature dot com slash Saturn. See y'all

447
00:26:50,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: next time. Welcome to take it up in here. I'm

448
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: Andrew of the channel Andrewism, and I'm here.

449
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 4: With Mia who didn't miss them learning today.

450
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 3: I just wanted to shed lights on just some of

451
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: the interesting history of the anarchists move went in Egypt.

452
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: This is part two, first part really, but just went

453
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: into the historical context and progression and how the anarchist

454
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: community emerged in Egypt, you know, fueled by this growing

455
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: Mediterranean network of migration, labor, mobility and communication.

456
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: Of course, it started.

457
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: With the Italian community, known for their anarchism in that time,

458
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: but they soon gained the support of other groups sharing

459
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: a radical vision of social emancipation. I learned all this

460
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: from the book Anarchism and Syndicalism in the Colonial and

461
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: Post Colonial World, particularly the section written by Anthony Gormann

462
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: on Egyptian history. In the years leading up to World

463
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: War One, anarchos cynicalism, represented by the International Union, played

464
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 3: a leading role in organizing and developing a militant labor movement,

465
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: advocating for international solidarity among workers. They adapted well to

466
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: Egypt's diverse society, embracing ethnic and religious pluralism and internationalism

467
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 3: while opposing capitalism. Anarchists, along with socialists and liberals, contributed

468
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: to the advancement of secular thoughts and Egyptian intellectual life,

469
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: leaven significant impact on their society. However, the anarchist movement

470
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: faced challenges due to the state's coercion through surveillance, prosecution,

471
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: and deportation. The authorities portrayed them as dissolute political adventurers

472
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: pushing an alien ideology. Despite their achievements in formulating and

473
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: anti capitalist discourse and advocating for social emancipation, other forces

474
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: like the Egyptian Communists and Egyptian National Movement would take

475
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 3: on some of the ideas with a louder and more

476
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: prominent voice. Do they just want to give more details

477
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 3: on the movement and what exactly they were doing in

478
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: their heyday? Clearly, the anarchists went to Egypt was not

479
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: confined to the local It was all about connected with

480
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: anarchists from different countries, making international friendships and fighting for

481
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: their shared ideals. The anarchists in Egypt got involved with

482
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: the conference in Verva's and conferences in London and Italy

483
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 3: and hung out with anarchists from Istanbul, Greece, Tunisia and more.

484
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 3: Egypt became the spot for anarchists in the eastern Mediterranean,

485
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: and they'd made connections all the way to the United

486
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 3: States and South America.

487
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 4: It's kind of interestingly playing a similar role to like

488
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: early nineteen hundreds Japan in terms of the anarchist movement,

489
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 4: where yeah, it's you know, get you get these sort

490
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: of like regional hubs that develop and people sort of

491
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 4: like moved through and around them, which I think is

492
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 4: really interesting.

493
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed, and each of being a hub,

494
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of big name anarchists to are visiting, oh,

495
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: you know, a big name talking people like am Claire

496
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: cypriani Elis Recluse, Aricoma ro Testa, Luigi Kaliani, and Pietro Gory.

497
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: And of course with these agitators in the mix, the

498
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: authority has got a little new of us. But the

499
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: real life flood of the movement with not these influential figures,

500
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: they were the publications that this community was producing and

501
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: reading and distributing. The anarchists in Egypt didn't just read

502
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 3: from newsletters all around the world though that was a

503
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: part of it, but they also contributed.

504
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: Their own articles.

505
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: But always happening in Egypt, they're connected, informed and motivated

506
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: by the international community they had built. There are a bunch

507
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: of publications dedicated to workers is use, offering insights, debates,

508
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: and discussions on common difficulties on matters of labor organization

509
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: and strategy. Facilitated by an increasingly developed international transport system,

510
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: particularly steamership services, the International Anarchist press served as a

511
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: vital channel the dissemination and diffusion.

512
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: Of the movement's ideas.

513
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 3: It was the anarchist Library before the anarchist Library in

514
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: terms of.

515
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: How they went about organizing and propriation.

516
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: In Egypt, the anarchists there recognized the unique challenges of

517
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: the local situation.

518
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: That they have to deal with.

519
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: For the European anarchists, promoting the message of emancipation and

520
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 3: combat and the exploitation, ignorance and injustice caused by capitalism,

521
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: the states and religious authority would be no easy task

522
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: in a region where, for one, they're already being seen

523
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: as part of the onicle and attempts of political domination

524
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: by Western powers, and also in a region with very

525
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: deep historical religious divisions, you know, such as the Crusades

526
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: and the British French colonization. It's really one of the

527
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: major projects I suppose the European anarchists needed to communicate

528
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: to the local population was that their ire did not

529
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: lay with Europeans as a whole. It lay primarily with

530
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: the European ruling class. And so when it came to

531
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: critique and societal issues and has strongly attacked the evils

532
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: of capitalism, and of course that had the best reception

533
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: among the Egyptian workers. Of course, this isn't to say

534
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 3: that the European workers in Egypt were like completely in

535
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: common with the Egyptian workers. Despite the fact that the

536
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: ire of the Egyptian workers should really lie primarily with

537
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: the European ruling class that was responsible for the imperialization

538
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: of their country and the expectation of their people. The

539
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: presence of the European workers did also contribute to the

540
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: exploitation because those European workers were paid so much better

541
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: than Native worn workers were. It was experienced and privileges

542
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: that the Native One workers did not.

543
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: Have access to.

544
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: Interestingly, although anarchists typically advocate for emancipation from all religious authorities,

545
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: Islam wasn't specifically targeted in their literature, and there was

546
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: probably a pragmatic consideration for whether anti religiou rhetoric would fly,

547
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: considering they could just be reported because of course that

548
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: was a crime. They still took on a hostile attitude

549
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: towards Egyptian state, though condemn its course of actions, surveillance culture,

550
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: and abusive power, but they didn't confront it head on.

551
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: The program of action was far more focused on the

552
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: goal of social transformation through the use of propaganda, education,

553
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: and workers associations. Because of the mixed conditions in Europe

554
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: and in Egypt, the ideal people of different races, religions,

555
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: and nationalities united in solidarity had some real potency to it.

556
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: So the internationalist mission was a very central component in

557
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: their messaging at public conferences and at labor meetings, but

558
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: it really was more so about the speaking the propaganda

559
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 3: of the word rather than the propaganda of the deed.

560
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 3: In fact, interestingly, for that time, the anarchists in Egypt

561
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: didn't really engage in much propaganda of the deed at all,

562
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: propaganda the deed being you know, political violence and assassination attempts.

563
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: For those who know you know a bit about the

564
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: anarchists of that time. Propaganda of the deed was what

565
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: they were known for. They had some some big name

566
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: assassinations in the bios. For example, Franz fudinan I believe

567
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: was assassinated by an anarchist.

568
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 4: Wait, no hold on, France Ferdinand is the guy who

569
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 4: was killed by Gavrio Prinsept, the guy who started World

570
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 4: War One.

571
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 3: Right, I've seen some so says call him a nationalist,

572
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: souses call him an anarchist.

573
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 4: I don't think he was an anarchist.

574
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was exposed to socialist, anarchist and communist writings

575
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: when he was younger, through school and through his roommate

576
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 3: Danilo Irich, but he was more so associated with nationalists,

577
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: particularly when he got around to assassinate in Franz Ferdinand.

578
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: Nazis and fascists did call him an anarchist and a socialist,

579
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 3: but it seems as though although he was inspired by

580
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: nationalists and anarchists, he was more so in the nationalists

581
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: side of the equation.

582
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 8: Yeah.

583
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 4: I mean they did kill a few Habsburgs, which always

584
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 4: always a good thing to have less Habsburgs in the world.

585
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 4: You can you can you can make you can make

586
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 4: a chart over time and what access is good and

587
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 4: the other access is habsburg. You can see that they're

588
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 4: inversely correlated.

589
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, have spigs or something else.

590
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, the anarchists in Egypt not too much into

591
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: the political violence and assassinations. They were focused really on

592
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: promoting the ideas through spoken and written communication, you know,

593
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: like public meetings, demonstrations, in the press, and the press

594
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: was really the crucial axis of their efforts and disseminating

595
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: the ideas and sustaining their identity. They had local properly,

596
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 3: they had local publications like that Tribuna Liberal, Lepero Looks

597
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: and others, which save to spread anarchist thought and discuss

598
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: ideas and issues of social emancipation. The weekly paper l'apero

599
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: mostly promoted anarcho syndicalism, and then the paper Ill dom

600
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: Dominie came up and decided to adopt a more tridently

601
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: libertarian tone. And then you have Rise Again or Or,

602
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: which is another people another weekly that promoted a very

603
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 3: strong anti clerical line. And then there was the people

604
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: who Ergatis, which was or the Worker, and that was

605
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: an organ for the emancipation of women and the worker,

606
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: and it provided primarily for a Greek language readership are

607
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 3: see a lot of these papers will tailor towards specific languages,

608
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 3: so that Greek had Italian and you also.

609
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: Had French like Leugnon and le Idea.

610
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 3: But despite its polygod character, the anarchist press in Egypt

611
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to have included an Arabic language newspaper, which

612
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: is kind of weird when you're surrounded by Arabic speaking people. However,

613
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: anarchism had regularly featured in the mainstream Arabic newspapers since

614
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: nineteen since the eighteen nineties, usually however in reports and

615
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: the activities in the movement abroad, not locally in Egypt.

616
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: At the same time, there were also journals like Al

617
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: Muktataf and Al Hilal, which carried articles discussing the origins

618
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: and development of anarchist thought and practice. It seems as

619
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 3: though in eighteen ninety seven there was also a figure

620
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: who engaged with socialized ideas, but that particular publication seems

621
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: to have been closed down quite quickly by the authorities,

622
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: particularly for feature in the work of Salama Musa and

623
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 3: Shibli Schumayl, who were two Egyptian writers who were clearly

624
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: influenced by anarchist ideas. Something that just occurred to me

625
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: is that what it could be influencing this is that

626
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: the Italians, in the Greeks and the French and all

627
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: these different people who are writing about these anarchist ideas

628
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: in Egypt, It's possibly they had a bit more leeway

629
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: and it came to the local authorities that locals themselves

630
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 3: would not have. Their foreign status may have provided them

631
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: with slight immunity in comparison. And this is just me

632
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: spitball in, but it's possible that araborphone writers and speakers

633
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 3: would be taken on significantly more risk if they were

634
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: to agitate in the same ways that these.

635
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: You know, migrant workers were advocating.

636
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: And then there's also the component and that speculation, but

637
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: there is a proven component of financial difficulties and limited

638
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: literacy rates among the Egyptian population that made it difficult

639
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 3: to distribute Arabic language material, religious and anarchism, you know,

640
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 3: because a lot of the workers in Egypt who spoke

641
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: Arabic were not literate. What did help though, because you know,

642
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: the anarchists were about that life. They would go to

643
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 3: cafes and read the newspapers out loud to reach their

644
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: target audience. The first podcasters exactly exactly, the first podcasters

645
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: for real, as the anarchist movement in Egypt was really

646
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: commemorating important political events, celebrating the principles through posters, leaflets

647
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: and flyers celebrating the animalu history of events like the

648
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: Parist Commune in May Day really spread that message at

649
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: international solidarity among the workers.

650
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: Anchists in Egypt also.

651
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: Very fond of showing solidarity to their international figures like

652
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 3: Francisco Ferrer, who was a very influential Spanish anarchist thinker

653
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: who did a lot of work in the field of

654
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 3: anarchist education. He created for their schools, which influenced figures

655
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: like Goldman to create their own modern schools in the

656
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: US and elsewhere. And he was arrested and then executed,

657
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: which led to a lot of protests both locally and internationally,

658
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: making him something of a martyr for the anarchist cause.

659
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: And so the outrage expressed at the execution of Ferrero

660
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: was not simply just a protest against state attorney, but

661
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 3: also recognition of his status as an advocate for cycle education,

662
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 3: which is an important vehicle for you know, social emancipation

663
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 3: before Francisco Ferrever was executor, though anarchists in Egypt were

664
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: already working on educational programs. In fact, they launched their

665
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: most ambitious project, the Free Popular University or Universita Popularity

666
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: Liberal or UPL, in Alexandria in nineteen oh one. The

667
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 3: UPL aimed to provide free evening education to the popular

668
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: classes and received you great support across Alexandria and society.

669
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: Courses included you know, the works of Tolstoy and Bakunin,

670
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: the arts, and pragmatic topics like worker negotiation strategies. However,

671
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: the upl's radical nature also brought criticism, with the Italian

672
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 3: authorities initiating legal proceedings against the UPR lecturer for some

673
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,439
Speaker 3: remarks he made about the assassination of the Italian king

674
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: Umberto First, I of course leave you to speculate what

675
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: those comments and remarks may have been. But despite some

676
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: initial public support, its critics accused the UPL of being

677
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: based on depraved principles. Now I mentioned this school before

678
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: in the episode did on Islam and Anarchism, and like

679
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 3: I said in that episode, ouric speakers wouldn't quickly marginalized

680
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: from the education, and the UPL gradually became more aimed

681
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: toward and controlled by upper class interests. In fact, within

682
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: a year, reliably bourgeois elements had arrested control of the

683
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: UPL from its anarchist phone and had ratid controlled the

684
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: UPL from its anarchist founders and proceeded to transform it

685
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: into a vocational college that, among other things, taught shorthand, accountancy,

686
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: and languages. So, despite its very brief existence as a

687
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: revolutionary project, the UPL marked an important movement for anarchism

688
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 3: in Egypt and inspired other movements seeking educational reform. The

689
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: upl's impacts and vision influenced egypt Egyptian nationalists, who established

690
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 3: the Higher Schools Club in nineteen oh five, which also

691
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 3: emphasized educational means for political purposes. Anarchism in Egypt had

692
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: a significant impact on the development of the labor movement.

693
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: As a new working class emerged towards the end of

694
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 3: the nineteenth century, anarchois cynicalism emerged as a powerful force

695
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 3: advocating for formal collective organization as the instrument of social revolution.

696
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: Of course, each just's labor movement was entirely new, as

697
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 3: killed have been part of the traditional Ottoman order, regulating

698
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: trade and providing mutual lead. But the modernization efforts of

699
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 3: Muhammad Ali no Relation and Egypt's integration into the international

700
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: capitalist system changed that landscape, affecting the role of guilds

701
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 3: and shape in the working class. Foreign workers, like I

702
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 3: just mentioned before, came into Egypt alongside native Egyptian labor,

703
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: but despite the differences between them, evidence does show a

704
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: strong cooperation and collaboration between the groups.

705
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: The native Egyptian working class was.

706
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: Affected by a variety of factors, but there was a

707
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 3: model of collaboration that was emotion between European and Egyptian workers.

708
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 3: The Cigarette Rollers Union, for example, was initially a Greek

709
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: body in Cairo, but later became more inclusive as their

710
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: successful strike and eating nine to nineteen hundred marked a

711
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: milestone in Egyptian industrial militancy. However, their subsequent strikes fixed However,

712
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: subsequent strikes faced brutal confrontations with the police, leading to.

713
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: Divisions among the workers.

714
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 3: By the end of the first decade of the century,

715
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 3: the Anacosynicalist International Union had emerged as a significant force

716
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: based on universalist principles and international solidarity. The optimism for

717
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: the future of a socialist center in Cairo was a

718
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: reflection of the broader movement within the working class led

719
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 3: by anarchists and syndicalists. Anarchism first appeared in Egypt among

720
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 3: Italian political refugees and workers during the eighteen sixties, Nurtured

721
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 3: by a development international network of labor transporting communications expanded

722
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: beyond Italian circles, attract members from across Egypt's diverse communities

723
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 3: the heterogenos through the discourse of radical social emancipation and

724
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: propaganda and public action declaring the universality of humankind and

725
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 3: the crime the evils of capitalism state power. On this dogma,

726
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: the anarchist movement would come into force in Egypt's history.

727
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: In the years after nineteen hundred, Anarchist cyndicalism played a

728
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 3: central role in development of the labor movement, ar circulating

729
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 3: the rights of workers in struggle against capital, against capital

730
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 3: and promoting internationalists activism.

731
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: Get wildly rejected.

732
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: Yet while they rejected nationalism as an organizing principle, anarchists

733
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: did at times make common cause of the nationalists against

734
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: imperialism and arguably had a reverberating influence on the strategies

735
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: and tactics of the nationalist movement. That's all I have

736
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 3: for today on this brief moment in Egyptian anarchist history.

737
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: But I hope it illuminated very interesting chapter and context.

738
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: That's fair.

739
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think there's another kind of important, broader

740
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 4: lesson from this that is I think mostly forgotten, which

741
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 4: is that you know, from this period of I don't know,

742
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 4: roughly the late eighteen hundreds through about nineteen seventeen, like

743
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 4: in most parts of the world except for basically like

744
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 4: Western Europe, or not even Western Europe, like apart from

745
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 4: basically like the Germany's, if you're talking about socialism, there's

746
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 4: like anywhere in the world, there's a very very good

747
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 4: chance the thing you're actually talking about is anarchism. And

748
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 4: you know, there's been a sort of systemic attempt by

749
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 4: both liberal and sort of later communists like historians to

750
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 4: sort of like wipe this historical record clean and make

751
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 4: it look like everything was always sort of like the

752
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 4: sort of on rush of Marxism, but that just wasn't true.

753
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 4: And they were very powerful anarchist movements on every continent,

754
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 4: and they did a lot, They did a lot of

755
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 4: really interesting things and yeah, yeah, that that really.

756
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 3: Needs to be respected and recognized and it hasn't so far,

757
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: so fully this and if folks check out the book,

758
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 3: they can get some more insights on some of the

759
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: other actions that have taken place in that time. Again,

760
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: the book is anarchism and syndicalism in the colonial and

761
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: post colonial world. It really illuminates a lot of that

762
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 3: lost history. Thanks for joining me and we on this

763
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 3: episode of That Could Happen Here Again. You can follow

764
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: me Andrew on the YouTube channel Andrewism and support on

765
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 3: patron dot com slash Saint Drew.

766
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 4: It it could Happen here. Yeah, that's the podcast that

767
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 4: you're listening to. It's also a thing that is happening.

768
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 4: The thing that is happening is it is a kind

769
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 4: of rough time to be a transperson in the US

770
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 4: and also in most other countries. And you know, we

771
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 4: do a lot of episodes on this show about how

772
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 4: it's rough and why it's rough and the specific things

773
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 4: that are happening. But also sometimes we do we do

774
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 4: the other part of the podcast, which is to put

775
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,479
Speaker 4: it back together part of the podcast, or in this one,

776
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 4: I this is more of a bring to birth a

777
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 4: new world from the ashes of the old episode. And

778
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 4: in order to talk about doing that, we're talking to

779
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 4: Samantha Medina, who's an organizer for Donut Workers United and

780
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 4: also the Coalition of Independent Unions and Shineyid who is

781
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 4: an organizer for the CiU and also the IWW And yeah,

782
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 4: both you two welcome to the show.

783
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 6: Hey, thanks for having us, good to be on.

784
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 4: Great to talk to both of you. And so the

785
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 4: specific thing that Yeah, I wanted to talk about today

786
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 4: is the Trans Day of Solidarity that is being organized

787
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 4: in Portland right now. And yeah, I wanted to I

788
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 4: guess we should start with what is this event, who

789
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 4: is doing it, and then we can get into why

790
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 4: it is being done.

791
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 9: Sure thing. So, the Trans Day of Solidarity is an

792
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 9: event being put on right now by the Coalition of

793
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 9: Independent Unions, and it's an event that's basically about both

794
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 9: celebrating trans people in the labor movement and the worker's

795
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 9: movement as a whole, highlighting the importance of workplace in

796
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 9: union organizing for trans communities as a way for us

797
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 9: both to survive but also to struggle towards our own liberation.

798
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 9: And finally, it's a way of it's a way of

799
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 9: sort of us clarifying how we can start using workplace

800
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 9: struggle as a means of turning the tide against the

801
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 9: current genocide with this.

802
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, that covers most of it. I think the only

803
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 6: thing that I'd like to add is a lot of

804
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 6: what this event is around is bringing awareness to the

805
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 6: trans community and specifically our experience within the labor movement

806
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 6: and on the job. And it is a way, as

807
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 6: Shaneide mentioned, to kind of like highlight exactly what unions

808
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 6: do and can do for trans people well at the

809
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 6: same time also giving us a moment to remind unions

810
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 6: that they should be doing more. Even if what they're

811
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 6: already doing is great, they could always do more, and

812
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 6: especially in a time right now where trans people are

813
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 6: facing the discriminations particular to us across this country right now,

814
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 6: and as she mentioned, the world, but focusing on the

815
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 6: United States, it's really important that the avenues that are

816
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 6: there to protect us are aware of how to protect us.

817
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 6: So I think this is our opportunity to kind of

818
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 6: remind unions to step it up a little bit.

819
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean, I think I think another thing

820
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,439
Speaker 4: that's kind of important about this in particular is yeah,

821
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 4: you know about bunch of YouTube are intimately aware of this,

822
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 4: but I don't know if overrepresented is the right term.

823
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 4: But like trans people, like literally right now in particular,

824
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 4: are effectively the vanguard of new union organizing. They are

825
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 4: you know, enormously like quote unqule I guess, I guess

826
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 4: overrepresentati or whatever that's the word you want to use

827
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 4: in in you know, like among union organizers a lot

828
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 4: of actually and then this I think is you know,

829
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 4: another thing I'm excited about for this is that like

830
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 4: you all are kind of like at the forefront I

831
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 4: guess of like what the new sort of union organizing

832
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 4: stuff is and how it's how it's sort of you know,

833
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 4: how how it's been working, and so like that the

834
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 4: fact that this is like the one place where there's

835
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 4: actually a lot of us and that you know, is

836
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 4: a place where there's enough of us that it actually

837
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 4: matters is important and that you know that that works

838
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 4: in a lot of directions at the same At the

839
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 4: same time.

840
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think it's good to acknowledge that, like, yeah,

841
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 6: there are a lot of trans people that are organizing

842
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 6: their workplaces. There's a lot of trans people taking part

843
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 6: in their unions, and you know, a lot of that

844
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 6: I think comes out of necessity, like if we're not

845
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 6: there to discuss our needs with these unions or to

846
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 6: create our own unions at a necessity where like maybe

847
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 6: our CIS coworkers don't understand the struggle that we face

848
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 6: on the shop floor, so by reminding them, we're able

849
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 6: to make it better. You know, Like all that's great

850
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 6: and true and everything, but I think it's also really

851
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 6: good to acknowledge that like LGBTQ people in general, whether

852
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 6: they just be trands or otherwise, have been organizing and

853
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 6: organizing their workplaces for decades now. So I think a

854
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 6: lot of this like, yeah, we're seeing a lot more

855
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 6: trans people involved, but we're also seeing a lot more

856
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 6: recognition and visibility of trans people than ever.

857
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 9: Bookedore right, well, and part of the reason we're so

858
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 9: involved is because it's a matter of basic survival. Right.

859
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 9: The average trans masculine and non binary person make about

860
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 9: seventy percent of the media and US wages, whereas transpendent

861
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 9: people make sixty percent. And this is below like compared

862
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 9: to SIS people. You know, that's that's wild, right. The

863
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 9: level of homelessness of discrimination of job, loss of hours

864
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 9: being reduced, punishment of sexual harassment on the job is

865
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 9: just you know, it's it's unconscionable and it always has been.

866
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 9: Even in the good days. It was garbage and miserable

867
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 9: and honestly took a lot of us out.

868
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean, you know, like part of part

869
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 4: of the thing with that RUND is like that all

870
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 4: of that has knock on effects, right, you know, if

871
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 4: you can't get a job and the job you can

872
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 4: get pay less. A lot of this forces people, you know,

873
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 4: like the rate of homelessness is unbelievably hot. People get

874
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 4: evicted constantly, and this, you know, this, this, this all

875
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 4: this ties together with sort of like transhousing struggles, because

876
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 4: that's a huge thing. And yeah, the conferences, this is like, yeah,

877
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot more of us end up dead.

878
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 4: And the way that we don't end up dead is

879
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 4: by fight. Is by fighting in one of the places

880
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 4: that you know, like one of the places we've gotten

881
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 4: good at is fighting in the workplace.

882
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 9: Absolutely, And I like, I mean, I'm talking from my

883
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 9: own experiences, you know, as an organizer and as an

884
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 9: IWW member for god seventeen years now, Like wow, yeah,

885
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 9: it's like I think about all the major campaigns that

886
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 9: I've seen, and all of them, all of them have

887
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 9: had trans people at as core organizers for each and

888
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 9: every shop, from the Canvasser's strikes to Burgerville to a

889
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 9: number of like fast food shops and service sector shops

890
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 9: and retail shops. Like every single time, there are folks

891
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 9: that are are trends that are playing key rules. Which

892
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 9: is given that we're what probably between two and four

893
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 9: percent of the population at least, uh, you know, at

894
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 9: least according to current testaments, probably gonna be higher, but

895
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 9: you know that's shouldn't be possible.

896
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 5: Yes, that is shocked.

897
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 9: It makes no sense except for the fact that well,

898
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 9: survivability bias. Motherfuckers, it's this or we're dead.

899
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, like very well, no, no, no, it's I mean

900
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 6: that is the blatant truth, right, And I mean, like

901
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 6: even if we're not talking about life and death, I mean,

902
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 6: it's the difference of whether we have access to a

903
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 6: bathroom to use, you know, yeah, like you know, like yes,

904
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 6: of course this is also about life and death. But like,

905
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 6: you know, I think another thing that trans people base

906
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 6: a lot is like access to health care or really

907
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 6: the lack thereof access to health care, and especially healthcare

908
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 6: that will actually get us, you know, the medication that

909
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 6: we need to be on or the surgeries that we need,

910
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 6: because again, these are issues that help with dysphoria, and

911
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 6: we all know the statistics on how dyspory affects people

912
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 6: of all ages, and that is again a matter of

913
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 6: life and death. So like, I don't think that's wrong

914
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 6: to not sugarcoat that stag.

915
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, right, And there's another side to it too, is that, like,

916
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 9: this is also a point of community. This is a

917
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 9: point of actually like folks from you know, it's meeting

918
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 9: up with other trans folks, but it's also like working

919
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 9: together with others like with CIS coworkers and friends. Right,

920
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 9: this is a point of belonging and togetherness and of

921
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 9: being able to really be there for your neighbors and

922
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 9: your friends and your coworkers in ways that like and

923
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 9: to be a part of community, which is something that

924
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 9: is often strict of us. Right. Yes, it's about survival

925
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 9: and it's about what we need to do in order

926
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 9: to keep breathing, but it's also about we need to

927
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 9: do to live, you know, to go beyond survival, to

928
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 9: have joy, and to have enough money to make it through,

929
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 9: and you know, maybe people to actually have something for ourselves,

930
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 9: maybe be able to not have the constant anxiety but

931
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 9: instead spend more time being happy about who we are.

932
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 9: Ceacy to overlook that. But again biased sample source, but

933
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 9: almost all my fondest memories are from being side by

934
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 9: side with my fellow workers.

935
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 6: Right absolutely. And I think also, you know, like time's

936
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 6: gone long enough now where you know, trans people are

937
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 6: starting to be something that people are aware of, something

938
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 6: people are talking about. Whether that's in the best ways

939
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 6: or not, We're at least more than we've been. And

940
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 6: I you know, I think like organizing in general, community

941
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 6: in general, whether that's you know community, uh, within the

942
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 6: city you live in or within your workplace. You know,

943
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 6: like a lot of our success at being able to

944
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 6: live the lives that we want to have, or be

945
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 6: the people that we want to be and be respected

946
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 6: for that really does come down to our family members,

947
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 6: our co workers, our friends, and ultimately complete strangers who

948
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 6: we need to rely on.

949
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 10: You know, I.

950
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 6: Hate to use the word ally, but we need our

951
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 6: allies more than ever and it's about time that they

952
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:36,439
Speaker 6: step up to and that starts typically speaking in your

953
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 6: community and in your workplace. I think it's also really

954
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 6: good to address the fact that, like, you know, when

955
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 6: we're talking about trans issues and organizing around them and

956
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 6: like organizing workplace in your community and all that, Like,

957
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 6: it's it's also important to acknowledge how intersectional the trans experiences.

958
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 6: And that's something I really wanted to stry to we

959
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 6: got talking about specifically about unions and things like that,

960
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 6: because also unions are an incredibly intersectional piece of politics

961
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 6: and life that we need to appreciate. Because when we

962
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 6: talked about these statistics affecting trans people, they affect disabled

963
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 6: trans people and black and brown trans people at much

964
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 6: much more much higrates then they affect white trans people.

965
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 6: And I think that unions being something and not just unions,

966
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 6: I mean every aspect of organizing and community building really

967
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 6: needs to pay attention to this. But I think this

968
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 6: is something that is so ingrained in unions that unions

969
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 6: have been fighting for this sort of protections that are

970
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 6: very intersectional, you know, like whether they're protecting women in

971
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 6: the workplace, whether they're protecting black and brown people, whether

972
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 6: they're protecting disabled people, or whether they're protecting trans people.

973
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 6: That is a large part of why you unions were established.

974
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 6: You know, we talked about wages and working hours a lot,

975
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 6: and that is all fine and dandy, and it's wonderful,

976
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 6: and that's something that is a base core value of unions.

977
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 6: But I don't think it's celebrated enough how much work

978
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 6: unions did in equality in this country. And I think

979
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 6: this is just a continuation of that tradition. And trans

980
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 6: people just happen to be one of the largest topics

981
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 6: right now, and we tend to have one of the

982
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 6: largest targets on our back, more than we've ever had before.

983
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 6: And so yeah, I think that's why we discussed unions

984
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 6: in relation to this, because for you know, working class folk,

985
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 6: that's where a lot of our organizing begins.

986
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I think it's actually honest, it's

987
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 4: had an interesting impacts on the kind of union organizing

988
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 4: as happening because you know, like one of one of

989
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 4: the sort of consequences of transferbient discrimination in workplaces is

990
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 4: that you get a lot of trans people in what

991
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 4: is okay, I refuse to call it service sector. I'm

992
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 4: gonna there's gonna be a whole episode that's been yelling

993
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 4: about the sort of service sector that's coming to a

994
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 4: recording thing near you, specifically like job jobs and fast

995
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:20,959
Speaker 4: food jobs that are very low wage, like high turnover things,

996
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 4: and particularly fast Who's been a very interesting because that's

997
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 4: a that's a sector that like a lot of trade

998
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 4: unions just completely ignored, like they just gave up on

999
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 4: and you know, like they've been starting to organize like

1000
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 4: Starbucks in the past few years, right, but like you know,

1001
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 4: like if you want to look at the people who've

1002
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 4: actually been trying to organize fast food workers, it turns

1003
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 4: out it's a bunch of trans people because because because

1004
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 4: who works, because who actually does this stuff?

1005
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 11: Right?

1006
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 9: Turns out turns out, Yeah, there's.

1007
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 6: A lot to be said about that, Like with larger unions,

1008
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 6: and larger unions, especially within the trades, have done a

1009
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 6: lot of great work, you know, and that's lovely and

1010
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 6: I appreciate them for that. But on the other hand,

1011
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 6: they really did turn their back on the service sector

1012
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 6: industry for the silliest reason possible, which is that high

1013
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 6: turnover is just too difficult and we want to talk

1014
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 6: about people, Yeah, it's just too difficult, you know, who

1015
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 6: wants to organize something difficult, right, like that might cost

1016
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 6: too much money or not make them enough money, and

1017
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 6: which I find highly hypocritical of unions in general. I mean,

1018
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 6: like not of all unions, but like if that is

1019
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 6: a stance that unions will take to not organize the

1020
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 6: service industry, being a union seems to be exactly why

1021
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 6: you would target those industries, right, because those are where

1022
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 6: workers need it most. And if we want to talk

1023
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 6: about high turnover rates being the reason, who do we

1024
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 6: think is affected the most by high turnover rates? You know,

1025
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 6: like it is hard to find a job as a

1026
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 6: trans person, let alone keep a job for any length

1027
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 6: of time. There's oftentimes no upward mobility for trans people

1028
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 6: in that job, and so you pace a variety of

1029
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 6: life issues when you're not making enough money, which inevitably

1030
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 6: leads to you losing your job and adding to the

1031
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 6: high turnover rates in these companies. This is exactly why,

1032
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 6: And we can get into you know, what we've been

1033
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 6: up to and what we're doing later, but that's exactly

1034
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 6: why the CiU and the IWW and other organizations like

1035
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 6: us do what we do, is because we believe in

1036
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 6: helping the workers that need it most, who are underrepresented

1037
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 6: and not taken care of by the larger units.

1038
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 9: Because we are those workers, right, I mean, that is

1039
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 9: the thing. We're able to do this and put you know,

1040
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 9: I mean, we'll put the fucking hours in because that's us.

1041
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 9: We're doing this because it's the only way out. Right. So,

1042
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 9: like when we schedule something like or like create an

1043
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 9: event like the Trans Day of Solidarity, we're doing this

1044
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 9: because both on the backbone of years of experience, but

1045
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 9: especially like collectively but also bringing in new organizers because

1046
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 9: we knew how. We can think back to how we

1047
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 9: were brought in, right, we can talk think back to

1048
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 9: our friends, our allies, and our especially our transfellow workers

1049
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 9: who were the ones who mentored us well before the

1050
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 9: tipping point in a lot of cases, right, because this

1051
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 9: is why we're here. And like thinking about who this affects, right,

1052
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 9: I mean, like, it affects trans people deeply, and it

1053
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,439
Speaker 9: can cut off our access to the healthcare that many

1054
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 9: but not all of us very much need to keep going.

1055
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 9: And the threats above us, you know, only increase as

1056
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 9: the like you know, the oppressions you face are are increasing. Right,

1057
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 9: if you're a transpression of color, if you're disabled, like

1058
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 9: you were saying, right, like shit gets worse, it gets harder,

1059
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 9: the sword over your head dangles a little closer, so

1060
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 9: we work to figure a way to get out from

1061
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 9: under it. But it's also like why the Transitay of Solidarity,

1062
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 9: Like when we talk about it, it's it's an event

1063
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 9: that that is what it is because it's designed to

1064
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 9: not simply be us just speaking into the wind, but

1065
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 9: it's meant to be a practical thing. Right. The the

1066
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 9: whole event itself is is like a rally with you know,

1067
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 9: trans speakers from you know a number of different shops

1068
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 9: and unions in town. But it's also then just quickly

1069
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 9: becomes just a flying picket, right, And this is a

1070
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 9: tradition that I think we do miss a little bit

1071
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 9: in this country. The flying picket's an old one and

1072
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 9: it's a it's a fucking goldie. It's where you get

1073
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 9: a big old mob of people and you just start

1074
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 9: going to places all over your town and throwing fucking pickets.

1075
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 9: It's everything you love about a breakaway march and also

1076
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 9: a picket. At the same time, it has direct economic

1077
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 9: leverage to it. You can do you know, people, It's

1078
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 9: it took a minute. But and you know this is

1079
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 9: also coming from someone who's organized in premierly in Portland,

1080
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 9: so there's a certain bias here. Your locale may vary,

1081
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 9: but if you organize enough pickets in your city, people

1082
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 9: might cross them at first, they get a lot less

1083
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 9: likely to the more you do them over the years.

1084
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 9: So the more pickets to throw, the less likely people

1085
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 9: are to cross them. And if they are not likely

1086
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 9: to cross them, that impact that you know, increases their impact.

1087
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 9: So you know we're gonna be given our speech, is sure,

1088
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 9: and we are going to speak to our experiences. That's critical.

1089
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 9: And then we're also going to ruin some people's day

1090
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 9: or you know, make their day if you're the.

1091
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 4: Workers, Yeah, ruin some bosses day exactly, just always the

1092
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 4: best kind of day.

1093
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 9: Well, it's also part of the reason, listen, should bosses

1094
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 9: have good days? I'm going to go on a limb

1095
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 9: and say no never ever ever you want to, yeah,

1096
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 9: damn straight. At the bare minimum, you get at least

1097
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 9: one less good day than us.

1098
01:07:57,560 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 6: And you know what, you know what if the bosses

1099
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 6: don't like having these bad days, then they can just

1100
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 6: go find another job. Yes, exactly, it's not that same deal.

1101
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 9: Right, they can actually contribute to their communities, you know,

1102
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 9: do some real work for a change, which in this

1103
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 9: case is sometimes just working a fucking till.

1104
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 4: That's okay, speaking speaking of things that suck, we need

1105
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 4: to take an ad break. This is the best ad

1106
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 4: pivot I've been able I've been able to think of

1107
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 4: in the last like six minutes. So we're taking it

1108
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 4: right now. Now, we're going to get this good again

1109
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 4: and we're back. So one of one of the things

1110
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 4: that I also wanted to talk about is about I

1111
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 4: guess just talking a bit about what the Coalition of

1112
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 4: Independent Unions is and how it's sort of formed, and yeah,

1113
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 4: I don't know the sort of potentials they're in because

1114
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 4: it's it's a really interesting organization coalition.

1115
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, So the CiU, it's got a long history

1116
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 6: if we really dig deep into it. I mean, effectively,

1117
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 6: this idea started after organizing within Portland for the last gosh,

1118
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 6: I think people may people have been organizing here forever.

1119
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 6: But let's say, how long ago did Burgerville Workers Union start, Shanaan.

1120
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 9: Let's see. We there's that's a question. If you want

1121
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 9: to talk about the official date we went public Shore

1122
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,720
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen. If you want to talk about the antecedents,

1123
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 9: you'll find it in the Industrial Research Organizing Group Precarious Workplace. No,

1124
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,959
Speaker 9: it is Low Wage Workers Subcommittee the Portland General Membership

1125
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 9: Branch of the IWW circa August of twenty thirteen.

1126
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 4: Incredible, way the way Still you're welcome.

1127
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, Oh, money, money, I'm do you know how many

1128
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 9: fucking acronyms do we have?

1129
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 2: Oh?

1130
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 9: My god, listen the number of things I had to

1131
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 9: take the GMB when I was BST, despite not actually

1132
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 9: being the tea part of the BST, the only tea

1133
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 9: part I'm not part of. Oh. I could tell you

1134
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 9: about the GOB and the GEB until the cows come home.

1135
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 9: But the point is they're antecedents. The CiU is a

1136
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 9: relatively new organization with deep roots in Portland. It kind

1137
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 9: of came out of the flurry of independent unions that

1138
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 9: kind of in fast food service and retail that flourished

1139
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 9: in the wake of the Burgerville Workers Union. Burgerville Workers

1140
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 9: Union itself goes public in God, that was April of

1141
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen, Because of course it's been that fucking long.

1142
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:50,759
Speaker 9: It was in the works a while before that. God,

1143
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 9: all those meetings. The earliest antecedents are arguably the Portland

1144
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 9: General Biership branch of the IWW's Industrial Organizing Research Group,

1145
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 9: the Precarious Worker Subgroup, or maybe it was a little

1146
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 9: wage Workers subgroup August of thirteen, But that's Antasus, right,

1147
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 9: this kind of goes public. This itself is built on,

1148
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 9: you know, the Jimmy Johns Workers Union, especially for on

1149
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 9: the Twin Cities, and earlier in the two thousands, and

1150
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 9: then of course before that, the Starbucks Workers Union that

1151
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 9: had multiple different campaign flourishings. I think the earliest in

1152
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 9: the late nineties early aughts in New York City on

1153
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 9: which honestly you'll see some articles mention this on which

1154
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 9: the foundations of the modern Starbucks Workers United now rests.

1155
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 9: So what we've seen now in the wake of all

1156
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 9: of this shit, right, is you have an incredibly militant

1157
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 9: working class coming forward and they aren't popping off. They're

1158
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 9: not waiting for permission from any org to just start

1159
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 9: fucking organizing their workplace, sometimes filing for for union elections,

1160
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 9: sometimes not the ones that have been filing for contracts.

1161
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 9: There are, I have complicated feelings, but there are real gains.

1162
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 9: You can make from contracts right that it is a

1163
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 9: lot easier to get certain victories than you can and others.

1164
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 9: Now there's also limitations, right, But the CiU comes from

1165
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 9: a number of different unions coming together, you know, don't

1166
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 9: work as united a few others to basically like actually

1167
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 9: preserve you know, democracy in their workplace, to pool resources

1168
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 9: around you know, trainings around contract bargaining and elections, as

1169
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:51,599
Speaker 9: well as to rely on each other for direct for

1170
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 9: direct action assistance and things like that. And you know,

1171
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 9: the the IWW has also got a thread in all

1172
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 9: of this. But yeah, it's it's essentially of like, you know,

1173
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 9: we're not trying to own everything, right. The CiU exists

1174
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 9: as a platform for all the different types of independent

1175
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 9: union activity that are occurring, right, and to create a

1176
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 9: base on which we can actually start talking to each

1177
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 9: other more, to cooperate and interact with each other. Right.

1178
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 9: There is more of a contract focus in the CiU. So,

1179
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 9: you know, I'm a wob with experience in duel carding.

1180
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 9: You know, you have your contract union on the one hand,

1181
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 9: and you're fighting union on the other. And this allows

1182
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 9: folks to sort of approach union organizing and labor organizing

1183
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 9: from any level of experience and any number of backgrounds.

1184
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 6: Right.

1185
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 9: I think that's the real strength of the CiU is

1186
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 9: not to instead to constrain the upswell of worker miltancy,

1187
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 9: but instead to give it a place to help put

1188
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 9: down some roots while also allowing even more militant struggle

1189
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 9: to intertwine within those growths.

1190
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 6: So I think that's a really great explanation the CiU

1191
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 6: and how the CiU formed, and the purpose that the

1192
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 6: CiU provides two workers all. I mean, so far, the

1193
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 6: CiU is growing rapidly. We've been talking with a lot

1194
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 6: of workers, and primarily in Oregon and in Portland, but

1195
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 6: even workers outside of that purview. And I have a

1196
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 6: lot of hope that the CiU is going to be

1197
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:29,919
Speaker 6: able to help unionization in a way that other unions

1198
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 6: are not willing to at the moment or having difficulty

1199
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 6: breaking into. And so far, so good. I mean, I

1200
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 6: think we have gosh, I think there's like at least

1201
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 6: trying to do the math right now in my head.

1202
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 6: I do lose count sometimes, but I think we got

1203
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 6: about six different shops involved in the CiU currently, six

1204
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 6: including my own exactly six week up shops including.

1205
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 9: My own no, that's fine. Yeah, yeah, Oh honey, there's

1206
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 9: so much more to come.

1207
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 4: There's so much to come.

1208
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 6: Oh, they're going to learn why we picked this city, all.

1209
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 4: Right, crows.

1210
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 6: But it's going really well, and we have a lot

1211
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 6: more campaigns that are going to go public in the future.

1212
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 6: But one thing that we really noticed while organizing all

1213
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 6: of these campaigns, and you know, whether we ourselves organize

1214
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 6: them or whether we had a hand in assisting them

1215
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 6: organize themselves throughout the city, one thing that all of us,

1216
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 6: various organizers started to realize is that we represent a

1217
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 6: large amount of trans folks at all these jobs. And

1218
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 6: now some of that could be chalked up to the

1219
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 6: fact that we live in Portland and we kind of

1220
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 6: live in the trans mecca, so of course you're going

1221
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 6: to come across a lot of trans workers. But here's

1222
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 6: the deal that we kind of noticed is that trans

1223
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 6: workers regardless of living in Portland, Oregon or you know,

1224
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 6: the fact that we have so many trans people living

1225
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 6: here for a lot of reasons. I won't get into that.

1226
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 6: We all know, which is why we moved here in

1227
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 6: the first place.

1228
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 9: Refugees were Let's be real, let's run away refugees.

1229
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, but we noticed that there's a lot of trans

1230
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 6: workers working, as you reluctantly put it earlier, service industry jobs,

1231
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 6: and not just service industry jobs, a variety of jobs,

1232
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 6: but most of which are you know, minimum wage, poverty wage,

1233
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 6: let's be honest, jobs that offer almost zero upward mobility

1234
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:33,720
Speaker 6: for trans folks. And so that's the thing that we

1235
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 6: started looking at is the ladder, and as you go

1236
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 6: up the ladder, you see less and less and less

1237
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 6: trans folks. So down here at the bottom working, you know,

1238
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 6: fast food jobs, working, sweaty donut jobs, working, you know,

1239
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 6: in I mean the restaurant industry as a whole, I

1240
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 6: think is a lot of we assist as well as

1241
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 6: you know, potentially some grocery store workers and other people

1242
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 6: like that. We don't have a whole lot of representation

1243
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 6: in our workplaces that we make up, you know. I mean,

1244
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 6: we can look at some of the larger industries in

1245
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 6: town that do provide unionization for workers, and there's many,

1246
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 6: but you know, I think it's easy to look at

1247
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 6: like a lot of the auto industry or the warehouse

1248
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 6: industries and things like that, and of course they have

1249
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 6: trans workers, but it's an overwhelming amount working within the

1250
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 6: service industry, and so as we started organizing more and

1251
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 6: more service industry shops, we started realizing that we are

1252
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 6: representing a lot of trans people. And what's really important

1253
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 6: to us is that if we're going to be representing

1254
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 6: trans people in the workplace, then we should give them

1255
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,759
Speaker 6: a platform and a voice to be able to speak

1256
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 6: about their concerns and their issues that they haven't otherwise had.

1257
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,759
Speaker 6: And that's why the CiU decided to put on this action,

1258
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 6: you know, and we chose it when we chose it

1259
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 6: for a very particular reason, and to be honest, we

1260
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,639
Speaker 6: thought about doing it over Pride weekend, and I think

1261
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 6: that would have been lovely. But on the other hand,

1262
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 6: you know, Pride is about a celebration of existence, and

1263
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 6: there's a lot of visibility during Pride already, so we

1264
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 6: kind of step back. We reflected on that for a

1265
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 6: little bit, and we decided that Labor Day is not

1266
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 6: exactly a time of year where you hear about people

1267
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 6: talking about LGBTP rights and trans rights. I mean, of

1268
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 6: course there's a little bit of that going on, I'm

1269
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 6: not sure and to say that there's none, but it

1270
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 6: seems like a really great opportunity for us to host

1271
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,799
Speaker 6: this event over Labor Day week and give trans workers,

1272
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 6: the working class an actual platform and a voice to

1273
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:41,680
Speaker 6: express their concerns issues and give their thanks. At the

1274
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 6: same time to the unions who represent them and like

1275
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 6: I said before, it could represent them even better. So

1276
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 6: this is our way for reminding them and also at

1277
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 6: the same time to follow up picket reminding Portland that

1278
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:01,520
Speaker 6: if you don't take care of your community and specifically

1279
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 6: in this case, or trans working class community, then we

1280
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 6: will make ourselves heard and you will listen to us

1281
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 6: one way or another. And if we have to take

1282
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 6: to the streets in order to have our voice heard,

1283
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 6: we are more than happy to do that.

1284
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 9: Read the promise, black the threat. That's an old slogan,

1285
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:25,799
Speaker 9: but again it's when we really need to bring.

1286
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 6: Back and city birds. City birds are very important all this,

1287
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 6: but I know nothing is.

1288
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 9: More important, but listen, listen, We're in Portland. The obligatory

1289
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 9: crow conversation is just part of the bargain. The Liberty

1290
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 9: weekend tends to be very important because this has been

1291
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:50,519
Speaker 9: a lot of retail and food and entertainment business happens,

1292
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:55,799
Speaker 9: and frankly, given you know, the whole genocide. We decided

1293
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 9: we were going to help, you know, show the power

1294
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 9: of organized labor by bring up of a wrench into that, right,

1295
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 9: So why we chose Labor Day getting into sort of

1296
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 9: like what the Trans Day of Solidarity is. We're going

1297
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 9: to be having a speaker and rally at four pm

1298
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 9: at Pioneer Square in Portland, Oregon on Saturday, September second.

1299
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 9: This is a huge, huge weekend for food service or

1300
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 9: entertainment and yeah, for retail. And while we're having trans

1301
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 9: speakers from a number of different campaigns and you can

1302
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 9: speak from four to you know, wrapping up at around five,

1303
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 9: We're then going to start moving on a mobile picket line,

1304
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 9: a flying picket all over downtown Portland because we need

1305
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 9: to bring joy to a lot of workers and we're

1306
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 9: ruin a lot of bosses' days. This is leverage and

1307
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,640
Speaker 9: we'll use it. We'll just cost them as many, you know,

1308
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 9: as much money as we possibly can. We'll be hitting

1309
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 9: a number of different stores. It looks like we'll be

1310
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:04,640
Speaker 9: hitting well you'll see it the march, but we'll be

1311
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 9: going all over the city. We have everything covered in

1312
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 9: terms of needs and amenities, there's going to be chants

1313
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 9: and leaflets, there'll be medics a plenty, they'll be all

1314
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 9: sorts of safety concerns will be addressed by or organizers

1315
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 9: on the ground. So please come, one, come all. We

1316
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 9: actually should have a marching band that'll be pretty fun

1317
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 9: that I didn't expect to land up. It'll be a

1318
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 9: Union marching band, no less.

1319
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 4: Nice, nice. I love to see it.

1320
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 9: It's gonna be pretty great. So if you like trans

1321
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 9: people and making bosses cry, you should come to this.

1322
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 4: What time if we do?

1323
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 9: This is starting again four pm the at Pioneer Square

1324
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 9: in downtown Portland, and then we'll be doing the march

1325
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:00,919
Speaker 9: throughout the city from row five o'clock.

1326
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 6: And I do recommend that folks wanting to come out

1327
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 6: to the event be ready to chant, bring your walking

1328
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 6: shoes because we have a bit of a trek ahead

1329
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 6: of us making bosses miserable across town. And uh, make

1330
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 6: some signage, bring, bring picket signs, bring you know in

1331
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:27,759
Speaker 6: in picket signs and support of both trans people, uh,

1332
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 6: working class folks, union workers, or just reminding bosses to

1333
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 6: stop being ship heads. Whatever you want to put on

1334
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 6: your sign, it's lovely. I will give you a hint

1335
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 6: as to one of the locations that we will be picketing.

1336
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 6: And I think it's okay for me to mention this,

1337
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 6: but you know, well, we'll make sure to picket the

1338
01:22:51,400 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 6: world's worst tourist trap also one of the absolute one

1339
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,760
Speaker 6: of the absolute most difficult.

1340
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 8: Uh.

1341
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 7: You can't struggle that I've ever been a part of

1342
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 7: only being one so far particularly, but you know it

1343
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 7: really irks me. So anyways, if you're interested in that,

1344
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 7: come on down and you can see the World's Worst

1345
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 7: turns trap on your way.

1346
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 4: And for people who are not in Portland, I do

1347
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 4: want to remind people it's it's probably not enough time

1348
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 4: to do it this year, but you too, You too

1349
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 4: can have a trans Day of solidarity. You could also

1350
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 4: have it on a different day. We can have one.

1351
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 4: If we planned this correctly, we could in fact have

1352
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:46,759
Speaker 4: three hundred and sixty five days of trans of transolidarity.

1353
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 4: We could take all of the days. I don't know

1354
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:51,600
Speaker 4: this is people can have like the Leapier Day or

1355
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 4: something like that. We'll get ther.

1356
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 9: We already have May Day. It's called you know, there's

1357
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 9: no need for us a labor day. I really feel

1358
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 9: like if we keep doing this every year. We can

1359
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 9: just take it.

1360
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can. We can get rid of fake every

1361
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 4: day and make it based Labor Day again exactly.

1362
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 9: I mean it's trans Labor Day.

1363
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know, that's a lot. I mean

1364
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,600
Speaker 6: I'm only visible one day of the year, and I

1365
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 6: only remember things one day of the year.

1366
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 4: I don't know, I know, Okay, okay, okay, there's there's

1367
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 4: one day. We got one day of pride. There's like,

1368
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 4: isn't there like a bisexual visibility day or something?

1369
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 5: There is one?

1370
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 9: There is, Yes, bisexuals only appear for one day.

1371
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 4: It's at least three days, and we know a four

1372
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 4: right before. There's like two other trans ones. We we

1373
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,679
Speaker 4: could possibly have a full five days that we were visit.

1374
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 9: I'm just gonna put forward that, like listen, if you

1375
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 9: also want to, you know, and if you can get

1376
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 9: something together for Sunday, September third, we could just make

1377
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 9: trans Data Solidarity followed by trans Day of Wrath, you know,

1378
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:00,599
Speaker 9: because if the picket line has to go too long, well,

1379
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 9: you know, we get mny ownery.

1380
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 4: Well and also okay, like I have been watching you

1381
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,719
Speaker 4: all make up its wrath MONTHO, it's not enough Pride's

1382
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 4: wrath tipe jokes for too long and there has been

1383
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 4: not enough wrath. So I'm calling you for more wrath days.

1384
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,040
Speaker 4: We need to actually do the day.

1385
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,520
Speaker 6: Absolutely. Oh so gonize your workplace.

1386
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 12: Oh, absolutely organize your workplace fine, you know, and if

1387
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 12: you find out that like the people that own your

1388
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,799
Speaker 12: company are fascists or helping to fuel the genocide, organize

1389
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 12: even harder.

1390
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 9: Help get friends involved, have them try and get on

1391
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 9: jobs to help take those motherfuckers down. Remember, there's so

1392
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 9: much you can do to cost the people that are

1393
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 9: trying to kill us a lot of money, well also

1394
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 9: making your lives so much better.

1395
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 2: So do your part.

1396
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 6: Hope to see you all again, Well not again, I

1397
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 6: hope to see you all there and again. It's going

1398
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 6: to be September second, four pm Pioneer Square, downtown Portland, Oregon,

1399
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:10,799
Speaker 6: and be there for the rally. Listen to people's voices.

1400
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,519
Speaker 6: We are doing this for a reason. It's important that

1401
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 6: we give trans folks a platform and support us on

1402
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 6: the picket line. We would really appreciate this other. Oh,

1403
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 6: you can also find a link to all this on

1404
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 6: the Coalition of Independent Union's Facebook page. We also have

1405
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 6: an Instagram. You can find us on just just type

1406
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,520
Speaker 6: in Coalition of Independent Unions or CiU.

1407
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 4: And you can find that in the decripsion Perfect.

1408
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 6: Perfect And if you need any more information, please feel

1409
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:46,920
Speaker 6: free to hit up either of those accounts. I'm'd be

1410
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 6: happy to inform you on whatever you need.

1411
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with that. Wishing everyone a happy Transda solidarity.

1412
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 4: If you're a boss, wishing you a bad Transda solarity. Yeah,

1413
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 4: and everyone, go go out into the world, make more

1414
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 4: trans day or stas of solidarity, make more bosses, sad,

1415
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 4: make workers happy. This is within your power to do.

1416
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 4: And yeah, go go into the world and make mischief. Hi.

1417
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 10: Everyone, it's me James today and I'm joined by Hulia

1418
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 10: Messner from Seawatch. She's one of the spokespeople for sea Watch.

1419
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 10: Sea Watch your organization at rescues Mediterranean rescues migrants in

1420
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 10: the Mediterranean.

1421
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 5: Hud Hi, good morning, welcome.

1422
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 11: Hi, thank you so much for your invitation.

1423
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, not good money for you. I guess could you

1424
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,679
Speaker 10: start off by explaining to us perhaps what sea watch

1425
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 10: does and why there's a need for it to do

1426
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 10: that as well?

1427
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 11: Yeah, of course, So Seawatch is a Civility and Search

1428
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,719
Speaker 11: and Rescue Organization. So we are trying to save people

1429
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 11: from distress at sea, in the Mediterranean Sea. So you

1430
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 11: can imagine a situation being very cruel at the European

1431
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:18,160
Speaker 11: external borders right now. So far more than two two

1432
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,879
Speaker 11: hundred people drowned only this year while trying to flee

1433
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:27,040
Speaker 11: to the European Union and the area we cover, people

1434
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 11: are mostly fleeing from Tunisia and Libya for example, to Italy,

1435
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:34,040
Speaker 11: but also trying to reach Malta for example. So what

1436
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:37,679
Speaker 11: we are trying to do is actually really rescuing bar

1437
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 11: with ships. So currently we have two ships. One is

1438
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 11: prepared at the moment for its first operation and the

1439
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 11: second one had just had rescue on the weekend and

1440
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 11: is now currently blocked initially. And on the other side

1441
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 11: we also have monitoring airplanes surveying the area and trying

1442
01:28:56,439 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 11: to monitor the human rights situation over the Mediterranean and

1443
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 11: trying to monitor firstly state violence but also secondly trying

1444
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 11: to give information when the airplanes are finding boats under

1445
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 11: stress then for people being rescued.

1446
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 5: Okay, so there's a lot there.

1447
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,759
Speaker 10: I think that we should probably break down for people

1448
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 10: and the first thing I think is you said that

1449
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:20,400
Speaker 10: one of your boats is blocked.

1450
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,480
Speaker 5: Now, Yes, maybe people won't.

1451
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 10: Be familiar with the way that certain European countries have

1452
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 10: reacted to the migration coming across the Mediterranean. So can

1453
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:34,640
Speaker 10: you explain what blocking constitute.

1454
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 11: Yeah, so, in Europe, like since a few years, in

1455
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 11: several years, we also see an increase in ultra right

1456
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 11: wing movements and also ultra right governments. So what is

1457
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 11: happening now, especially in Italy where we are operating from,

1458
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 11: is that we have a ultra right wing government under

1459
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,919
Speaker 11: the President Georgia Miloney installed and the government is currently

1460
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 11: trying to hinder will see rescue because it's a way

1461
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 11: to actually hinder and also block migration. So in the

1462
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:10,400
Speaker 11: beginning of the year, for example, there was a decree

1463
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 11: put in place that really makes it so much harder

1464
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 11: for us to operate. And at the moment after our

1465
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,719
Speaker 11: rescue on the weekend, we are blocked for twenty days,

1466
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 11: meaning that we cannot go out and do our usual

1467
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 11: work in the Mediterranean, but our ship has to stay

1468
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 11: import because Italian authorities are claiming that we violated the decree,

1469
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 11: which is actually going against international law.

1470
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1471
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 10: So I think when you say that they're trying to

1472
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 10: hinder migration in the Mediterranean. That's quite a nice way

1473
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,840
Speaker 10: of saying, I guess, because what this means is that

1474
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 10: they are making that migration even more dangerous than it

1475
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:53,640
Speaker 10: already is by not allowing people to be rescued. Right,

1476
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 10: and as you said, it's already incredibly dangerous, and the.

1477
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 11: More right, the Mediterranean Sea is a graveyard. Like as

1478
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 11: I said, more than twenty two hundred people died this

1479
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,959
Speaker 11: year only crossing, and thousands of people died since twenty

1480
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:15,600
Speaker 11: and fourteen, like numbers can be seen like with the

1481
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 11: IUM or the International Organization of Migration for example, that

1482
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 11: a're monitoring also the situation in the central central Mediterranean.

1483
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 11: And what this place or this external border actually constitute

1484
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 11: constitutes is a crime scene, a crime scene again for

1485
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 11: crimes against humanity because state states are like purposefully really

1486
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,719
Speaker 11: intentionally letting people drown.

1487
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, and yeah, it's tragic, it's really horrible. Can you

1488
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:48,759
Speaker 10: explain a little bit about like the way that I guess,

1489
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,559
Speaker 10: just the mechanics of people crossing the vessels they use

1490
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 10: where they like the journey people have seen the Mediterranean

1491
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 10: at all, like depending on where they live aby. See,

1492
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 10: they might live on the med but if they don't know,

1493
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,679
Speaker 10: maybe they've seen beaches and beach holidays in Spain or something.

1494
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 10: And obviously that's that's not all of it. So can

1495
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:07,879
Speaker 10: you explain a little bit about the conditions of the crossing.

1496
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, so people are all people that we rescue mostly

1497
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 11: are trying to flee from Tunisia as well as Libya.

1498
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 11: So the situation in Libya, for example, is really horrible,

1499
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 11: is very violent. There's a lot of documentation of torture camps,

1500
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:31,519
Speaker 11: of rape, of murder, of slave trade, and people that

1501
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 11: comes come from the sub Sahuarent region and are trying

1502
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 11: to flee to the European Union are crossing Libya for example,

1503
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:41,719
Speaker 11: but also in Tunia at the situation at the moment

1504
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 11: is very dire. Is it's very racist. There's like racist

1505
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 11: violent campaign started by the Tunisian president in the beginning

1506
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 11: of the year especially, so we see a lot of

1507
01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 11: institutional racism, We see a lot of racism and also

1508
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 11: a lot of islands on the streets. So people are

1509
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 11: really trying to flee from the country and people are

1510
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 11: using all means possible of pause because they have to.

1511
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 11: There's no easy way to come to Europe. Then people

1512
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:17,519
Speaker 11: fleeing cannot just take a train or an airplane actually,

1513
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 11: and then like trying to reach shores of the European Union,

1514
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,599
Speaker 11: of a boat is they only means, so they're really

1515
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,519
Speaker 11: forced to do that. And boats that are used are

1516
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 11: for example, inflatable boats, but also metal boats. And these

1517
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 11: metal boats especially are very very dangerous because they are

1518
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 11: only like constructed really not in good conditions, so they're

1519
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 11: really easy to sink.

1520
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 6: So as soon as.

1521
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 11: Water comes in, these boats are actually sinking. So people

1522
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:51,759
Speaker 11: are also mostly not wearing life wet, so it's really dangerous.

1523
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 11: Like the number of people on the boat is way

1524
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 11: too high for their capacities. So most boats as soon

1525
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 11: as they go on to see they are actually in

1526
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 11: distress and they are in need of rescue.

1527
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,840
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, and then let's talk about some of the

1528
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:10,800
Speaker 10: rescues that see what has been able to do, because

1529
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 10: some of them have resulted in the really big numbers

1530
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 10: of people you've been able to save? Right, I think

1531
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 10: there was one in twenty seventeen, which is fifty something people,

1532
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 10: Is that right?

1533
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 11: Yeah? I mean could very well be twenty seventeen. I

1534
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:24,960
Speaker 11: didn't work with sewers. So I don't know which rescue

1535
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 11: me you mean exactly, But for example, just now, on

1536
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 11: the weekend, we rescued seventy two people actually out of

1537
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 11: distress at sea with our ship Aurora.

1538
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 10: Okay, so let's talk about like what that rescue looks like.

1539
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 10: I guess what happens is maybe they and the aircraft

1540
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,920
Speaker 10: spot so the ship is in distress. Is that right,

1541
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:46,960
Speaker 10: and then your ship can respond and go to them.

1542
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:48,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1543
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 11: For example, there's also another organization it's called Alarm Phone.

1544
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 11: They are like a distress hotline where people in distress

1545
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 11: at seek and call, and they are also giving them

1546
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 11: the information to all ships in the area and of

1547
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:04,759
Speaker 11: course two authorities. So on the weekend, our Aurora actually

1548
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 11: first supported another civil search and rescue ship from Open

1549
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 11: Arms with their rescue and then was led to this

1550
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:17,640
Speaker 11: particular distress case also with the help of our monitoring

1551
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 11: flights operations which are called airborne, and the people were

1552
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:26,639
Speaker 11: then rescued on Friday, as said, seventy two people. And

1553
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:29,519
Speaker 11: then normally what you have to do is of course

1554
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 11: informed like the competent authorities in the area, so state authorities,

1555
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 11: and according to international law, then state authorities have to

1556
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:44,920
Speaker 11: coordinate the rescue, so we of course communicated, communicated with authorities,

1557
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 11: and authorities only after a while actually assigned us to

1558
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 11: the port of Trapani. So Trapani is in Sicily, on

1559
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:56,719
Speaker 11: the island of Sicily, and it was much farther way

1560
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 11: than the nearest port, which was on the island of

1561
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 11: Lump So you have to imagine, of course, distreads and

1562
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 11: the rescue cases are very dangerous situations and people of

1563
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 11: course need immediate support and need immediate transfer to the

1564
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:20,559
Speaker 11: land where medical help can like intensely happen, et cetera.

1565
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 11: Because people might be on sea for several days, they

1566
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:28,719
Speaker 11: might be in psychological but as well in physical pain

1567
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:33,759
Speaker 11: and stress. They might have burns from actually a fuel

1568
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 11: and seawater mixed, for example, and of course dehydration is

1569
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 11: a very very big danger and risk for people in

1570
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 11: distress at sea. So after we rescued and after we

1571
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 11: got assigned the port of Trapany, we made very clear

1572
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,880
Speaker 11: to the authorities that Trapani is way too far and

1573
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 11: that according to international law we need to go to

1574
01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 11: a Lump producer because it's the most suitable nearest port.

1575
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:03,559
Speaker 11: But then we got noticed that we are not allowed

1576
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 11: to go to Lum Producer actually, and that meant that

1577
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 11: we were in total forced to stay on CEA for

1578
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:14,440
Speaker 11: thirty seven hours, and also for those people in distress

1579
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 11: and rescued, they were forced to stay more than twenty

1580
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:22,559
Speaker 11: four hours additionally on sea, like having to really endure

1581
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 11: those really difficult this really difficult situation. The next day, Saturday,

1582
01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:31,679
Speaker 11: we were still on see the sun like really burned

1583
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:36,200
Speaker 11: relentlessly by that point, and people were facing dehydration. One

1584
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 11: person actually fainted, and it became really increasingly dangerous the

1585
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 11: situation on board, which is why we community communicated more

1586
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 11: and more with authorities and they were then forced after

1587
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,760
Speaker 11: a while to let us enter to Lump Producer because

1588
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:56,120
Speaker 11: the situation was really dire and people needed to disembark

1589
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 11: this embark on land.

1590
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that's a really good summation of like

1591
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:04,200
Speaker 10: some of the sort of like hostility you encounter from states.

1592
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:07,120
Speaker 10: Another thing that see, what she's encountered at least in

1593
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:11,679
Speaker 10: the past, is either negligent or like interference by state

1594
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 10: agencies at sea. I'm not sure if it's a navy

1595
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 10: or the coast Guard. I think it was maybe the

1596
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,360
Speaker 10: coast Guard, the Libyan coast Guard whod interfered with a

1597
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 10: rescue and this may have been before you started to

1598
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 10: It's find it.

1599
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, but the so called Libyan Coast Guard is an Yeah,

1600
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 11: it is an actor that is really violent, violently intercepting

1601
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 11: people that are trying to reach European shores and are

1602
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 11: also violently interfering with rescues of civil search and rescue ships.

1603
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 11: So we saw for example, shooting, like shootings in the air,

1604
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:45,920
Speaker 11: like in the direction of our airplanes, but also in

1605
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,760
Speaker 11: direction of other search and rescue ships. For example, we

1606
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 11: saw intimidations, We saw violations of international law and human

1607
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 11: rights by the so called Libyan Coast Guard. Because what

1608
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:01,719
Speaker 11: is happening is that the European States, the European Union

1609
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 11: is actually supporting the socoed Libyan Coast Guard to intercept

1610
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 11: people at sea, so to really block people from getting

1611
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 11: to the European Union.

1612
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, and it seems to be like a strategy throughout

1613
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 10: the European Union.

1614
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:15,080
Speaker 6: Right.

1615
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 10: It's rather than supporting people as they come, making this

1616
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:22,560
Speaker 10: journey less dangerous, they're trying everything they could do to

1617
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,640
Speaker 10: keep people in North Africa to stop them coming to

1618
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 10: Europe at all.

1619
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:29,840
Speaker 11: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, We see this on a very practical

1620
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 11: level in the Mediterranean Sea, but we also see this

1621
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:37,839
Speaker 11: on a political level, so with externalization policies, with deals

1622
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:40,760
Speaker 11: with Tunisia. For example, just recently there has been a

1623
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 11: deal between the European Union and Tunisia with a lot

1624
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:48,679
Speaker 11: of money involved to actually trying to block migration again

1625
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 11: and to increase the support for the Tunian Coast Guard,

1626
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:55,520
Speaker 11: for example. But we also see a lot of political

1627
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 11: talks between Italy and Libya. Libya is also now a

1628
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 11: former colony of Italy, so there's very close ties and

1629
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 11: ties and a lot of influence. And just a couple

1630
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 11: of days ago there was the transfer of two ships

1631
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,640
Speaker 11: from Italy to do so called Libyan Coast Guards. So

1632
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 11: they're really also, yeah, supporting this very violent, very dangerous

1633
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,480
Speaker 11: actor with technical.

1634
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 4: Means m hmm.

1635
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1636
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:27,400
Speaker 10: And obviously, like people who listen to all our episodes

1637
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 10: will be aware, like there's increased violence in the Sahel.

1638
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:34,360
Speaker 10: There's not a large shale protests in Syria this week,

1639
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 10: it's not as if the people will. There will still

1640
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 10: be dangerous situations for people to flee, and what the

1641
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,840
Speaker 10: EU is doing is making that dangerous journey more dangerous

1642
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 10: rather than sort of accepting that it's a thing that

1643
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 10: happens to humans and trying to make it less deadly.

1644
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1645
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:55,640
Speaker 11: Absolutely, And it's like it's a very politically induced situation

1646
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,719
Speaker 11: and we are like the European Union is supporting human

1647
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,639
Speaker 11: rights crimes, like with the money of the European Union,

1648
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:05,640
Speaker 11: human rights crimes are actually committed. So a couple of

1649
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:10,640
Speaker 11: weeks ago we saw the quotations from Tunian authorities of

1650
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 11: people on the move to the Tunian Libyan border, so

1651
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:18,839
Speaker 11: to the desert, and people were actually left there to die. Literally.

1652
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 10: Another way that you guys encountered state level hostility is

1653
01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 10: with these legal actions, right that have been taken against you,

1654
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 10: against seawatch, against individuals who are part of sea watching,

1655
01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:34,600
Speaker 10: against vessels that Seawatch aren't. Can you explain some of those.

1656
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:37,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, So for example, I mean the most recent one

1657
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 11: with the blockade of our ship, so it's blocked like

1658
01:41:42,439 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 11: according to state authorities because we or they claim we

1659
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:54,320
Speaker 11: violated the Italian decree that I just talked about, and

1660
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:58,360
Speaker 11: they actually said that we had to request a port

1661
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 11: in Tunisia and bring people back to Tunisia, which would

1662
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:05,320
Speaker 11: have been completely against international law because Tunia cannot be

1663
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 11: considered a safe board or a safe country of origin.

1664
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 11: So now we are in the process of like waiting

1665
01:42:15,400 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 11: for the Aurora actually to be de blocked again. But

1666
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:26,519
Speaker 11: also Italian authorities of course trying to criminalize person like persons.

1667
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 11: For example, in the case of Carula Rocket, who was

1668
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:34,559
Speaker 11: a captain with us in twenty nineteen and who who

1669
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:37,320
Speaker 11: had to enter also the port of Lamproducer because of

1670
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:40,719
Speaker 11: the very very difficult situation on board, because the ship

1671
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:44,640
Speaker 11: was forced to stay several days really on the Mediterranean

1672
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 11: Sea and the situation became very dire. So there was

1673
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:52,200
Speaker 11: also proceedings against her in person. So really people that

1674
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 11: are trying to show solidarity and support people on the

1675
01:42:56,240 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 11: move to claim their human right to claim asylum are

1676
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 11: criminalized on the basis of the accusations that are just

1677
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:10,080
Speaker 11: completely not true. For example, was also like all the

1678
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 11: charges against her were dismissed, there was no legal.

1679
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 6: Ground for them.

1680
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 10: M Yeah, but that harassment obviously still hinders your work,

1681
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:19,280
Speaker 10: right even even if the charges are dismissed, like the

1682
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:23,000
Speaker 10: time that the ship can't go out, yeah, absolutely.

1683
01:43:22,520 --> 01:43:28,960
Speaker 11: And it also is also a means to like to

1684
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 11: to implement fear now in people's minds, because of course

1685
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 11: it is super scary to be to be accused by

1686
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:41,240
Speaker 11: a state to have actually violated law and you are

1687
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 11: facing charges of years in prison, and like only that,

1688
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 11: fear can already do a lot. But we don't only

1689
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 11: see this in Italy. We also see this a lot

1690
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:58,320
Speaker 11: in Greece, for example, a country which is also really

1691
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:03,679
Speaker 11: trying to criminalize humanitarian and politically or like humanitarian workers

1692
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:06,679
Speaker 11: that are standing in solidarity with people on the wove.

1693
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, and so people might not be as familiar with

1694
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,759
Speaker 10: the landscape of migration. So maybe you could just explain,

1695
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:16,639
Speaker 10: like where the boats are based, because you talked about Greece,

1696
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:20,200
Speaker 10: so I know that that Maltese authorities have also like

1697
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:24,200
Speaker 10: bought cases against Sea Watch. Can you explain the different

1698
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:26,960
Speaker 10: landscape I guess of where your boats are based and

1699
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 10: where they tend to sort of end up relocating or

1700
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:32,879
Speaker 10: taking people to once they've been rescued.

1701
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,760
Speaker 11: Well, we take people who've been who's been, who've been

1702
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:43,360
Speaker 11: rescued a lot to Italy, but we're also of course

1703
01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 11: trying to coordinate with Maltese authorities who author the legal

1704
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 11: responsibility to take people in that Maltese authorities or Malta

1705
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:57,080
Speaker 11: the state is actually really irresponsive, so we really see

1706
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:01,280
Speaker 11: as little engagement of the country as possible. We see

1707
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:06,759
Speaker 11: a lot of hindering of migration. We see very special

1708
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:11,479
Speaker 11: cases with Malta where Malta Maltese authorities are actually, for example,

1709
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 11: communicating to merchant vessels who are finding or who are

1710
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 11: in vicinity of distress cases that they should just hand

1711
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:23,720
Speaker 11: out fuel to the boats or hand out water. So

1712
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 11: those distress cases, those boats are actually making their way

1713
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:29,680
Speaker 11: to Italy on their own, so they are out of

1714
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:31,440
Speaker 11: Maltese responsibility.

1715
01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:36,719
Speaker 10: Oh wow, yeah, so it's kind of passing the back along. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1716
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 10: It's just so sad and how similar so much this

1717
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 10: is to the way the US deals with people coming

1718
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:46,640
Speaker 10: across our land the border, which is often dear to

1719
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:48,920
Speaker 10: say they have they been back to Mexico, which again

1720
01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:50,960
Speaker 10: is a violation of international law and it's not a

1721
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 10: safe place. And again people in the US have been

1722
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:56,280
Speaker 10: criminalized for providing drinking water to people in the desert,

1723
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 10: right and even if it doesn't work, it scares people.

1724
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:03,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, And it's like, definitely it's not only a European

1725
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:07,639
Speaker 11: kind of situation. It's the situation at borders in general,

1726
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:14,479
Speaker 11: because borders are in the end like a construct to yeah,

1727
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:18,800
Speaker 11: to safeguard in like like I don't know how to say,

1728
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:24,920
Speaker 11: like in the cordination marks you're a parent space.

1729
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 10: Yes exactly, yeah, and to kind of yeah, I don't know,

1730
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 10: enforce some kind of notion who's in, who's out, and

1731
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,120
Speaker 10: who's the other and who's the same. I wonder one

1732
01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:37,719
Speaker 10: thing that people will be wondering is obviously see waches

1733
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:43,679
Speaker 10: a large scale operation with quite substantial assets, and people

1734
01:46:43,720 --> 01:46:46,880
Speaker 10: may be wondering, how you see which funded? How do

1735
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:49,479
Speaker 10: you get you know, you need experienced captains, you need

1736
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:55,080
Speaker 10: maybe people who experienced in rescue operations that see pilots.

1737
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 5: So where do all these people come from?

1738
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:00,960
Speaker 11: Well, like they come I mean also from the general public.

1739
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 11: We have so many volunteers that are working with us.

1740
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:09,719
Speaker 11: Really also we have people that are writing us and trying,

1741
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:12,880
Speaker 11: like trying to support and of course like everybody can

1742
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:15,439
Speaker 11: or anyone can have a look at the website. We

1743
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,720
Speaker 11: have job offers on the website usually as well, and

1744
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,400
Speaker 11: like if you want to support, really have a look

1745
01:47:21,479 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 11: and also try to reach out in case of any questions,

1746
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:29,600
Speaker 11: and like Seawatch and also other civil sea rescue organizations

1747
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:34,320
Speaker 11: are really sustaining themselves and are financed by donations. So

1748
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:38,040
Speaker 11: we are solely financed by donations, and we are really

1749
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 11: like trying to keep the work up as much as

1750
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:46,000
Speaker 11: much as possible, and we have lots of different opportunities

1751
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 11: as well to support not only by working with us,

1752
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:52,040
Speaker 11: but also in spreading our message on social media. So

1753
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:56,200
Speaker 11: that's maybe the easiest for everyone who has social media accounts.

1754
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:59,719
Speaker 11: Just like search Seawatching, you'll probably find our accounts on Twitter,

1755
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:02,959
Speaker 11: on Instagram, on Facebook, but also on TikTok for example,

1756
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 11: like inform yourself, educate yourself and share the message, talk

1757
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:11,120
Speaker 11: to your families while having dinner, talk to your friends,

1758
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:15,760
Speaker 11: and also support really self organized groups of people on

1759
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:18,639
Speaker 11: the move. So for example, you can inform yourself by

1760
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:23,440
Speaker 11: finding refugees in Libya the group or refugees in Tunisia

1761
01:48:23,439 --> 01:48:26,799
Speaker 11: on Twitter and they are actually talking about their situation

1762
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:32,560
Speaker 11: in the country. But also like like on on miggression groups.

1763
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, I wonder like talking about refugees in Tunisia and

1764
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 10: Libya has sort of reminded me recently, we discussed on

1765
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,679
Speaker 10: an episode like the presences of Wargner group in Africa

1766
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:47,519
Speaker 10: right specifically they've been in Libya before, they are now

1767
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,599
Speaker 10: in the Sahel in Central African Republic, in different places,

1768
01:48:51,160 --> 01:48:53,559
Speaker 10: and how people have reacted very differently to a presences

1769
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:57,719
Speaker 10: of Aargner group in Ukraine to the presences of Wagner

1770
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 10: group in Africa. And I wonder this isn't to say

1771
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:03,200
Speaker 10: that people I don't want to be construed to saying

1772
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 10: that people shouldn't have solidarity with people fleeing con conflict

1773
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:08,519
Speaker 10: in Ukraine, because they should and those people have every

1774
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:09,000
Speaker 10: right to a.

1775
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:09,599
Speaker 5: Safe place too.

1776
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:13,840
Speaker 10: But has there been a change in the tone or

1777
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 10: just the material support for you guys since the conflict

1778
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:21,160
Speaker 10: in the Ukraine grew broader of the Dombats and Crimera

1779
01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:22,799
Speaker 10: into the full scale invasion.

1780
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:25,879
Speaker 11: I mean, we see like we are in a situation

1781
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:28,760
Speaker 11: of like multiple crisses. Now. Of course we saw the

1782
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 11: invasion of Russia in Ukraine, but we're also we're facing

1783
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:37,439
Speaker 11: climate change, We're facing dire economical situations, et cetera. So

1784
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:42,160
Speaker 11: also our generations went down in the in the past year, definitely,

1785
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:45,720
Speaker 11: but we are still also are so lucky to have

1786
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:50,320
Speaker 11: like a very strong solid like solidary basis of people

1787
01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 11: supporting us. So I think it's like it's kind of

1788
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:54,559
Speaker 11: both a little bit.

1789
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:57,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, I always think like with respect to the solidarity,

1790
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:01,559
Speaker 10: and I've never really like every time so that there's

1791
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:04,040
Speaker 10: a larger scale crisis at the southern border of the

1792
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:08,200
Speaker 10: United States, right, Like recently, the United States government, very

1793
01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 10: similar to what you were describing, was keeping people in

1794
01:50:10,320 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 10: the open desert and leaving them there for days without

1795
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 10: food or water, and hundreds of people mobilized to help them,

1796
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,120
Speaker 10: people who you might not expect to be particularly radical

1797
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 10: in their politics or you know, in the sort of

1798
01:50:22,040 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 10: direct action people, but they were great and everyone helped

1799
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:27,280
Speaker 10: and answer result, no one died. One young woman died

1800
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:30,880
Speaker 10: in Texas in CBP custody. And like I always think

1801
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 10: if people could see it then, like you were saying,

1802
01:50:33,360 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 10: they can see your videos, people, there's a very human

1803
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:38,639
Speaker 10: response to never want that to happen to another human being.

1804
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:42,720
Speaker 10: It's just hard when there's there's so much going on.

1805
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:47,800
Speaker 11: Yeah, And also it's I think it's completely understandable that we, like,

1806
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:52,480
Speaker 11: not every person can concern themselves with all the topics

1807
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 11: all the crisis situations we're facing right now, and like

1808
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 11: no one expects that of us, but we can expect

1809
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 11: of stay because it's day of duty that like they

1810
01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:06,280
Speaker 11: are taking care of people actually, and they are really

1811
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 11: trying to set the base for everyone to like to

1812
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:13,839
Speaker 11: claim the human right and it states themselves that actually

1813
01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 11: like wrote down those human rights because of a certain situation.

1814
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:21,120
Speaker 11: So I mean, especially in Europe, we really have like

1815
01:51:21,439 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 11: we're just considering our history is just considering the history

1816
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:28,439
Speaker 11: of Germany. We just like it's it's platant ignorance and

1817
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 11: also completely against any historical evidence, against any historical work

1818
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:36,760
Speaker 11: we've done, what the situation now is and what we're

1819
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:40,120
Speaker 11: actually doing at the external borders like committing human rights

1820
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 11: crimes and like ignoring the situation actually like increasing the

1821
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:48,920
Speaker 11: dangers for people on the move on daily basis. And

1822
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:51,680
Speaker 11: I think, I mean it's not only I mean you

1823
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:54,240
Speaker 11: also mentioned this before. Now, like it's also situation you're

1824
01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:57,320
Speaker 11: facing in the US, and we really have to like

1825
01:51:57,400 --> 01:52:03,400
Speaker 11: build strong transnational movements and strong transnational ties to like

1826
01:52:03,640 --> 01:52:06,719
Speaker 11: work against state violence order violence in general.

1827
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:09,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that that's an excellent point that this

1828
01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:12,360
Speaker 10: is part of a broader kind of state violence that

1829
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:14,720
Speaker 10: everyone should be opposed to like it hurts everyone in

1830
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:17,519
Speaker 10: the end. And yeah, as both of us being European people,

1831
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:20,719
Speaker 10: we've seen that like very obviously, but we know government

1832
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:24,080
Speaker 10: seem to have forgotten. One thing that you mentioned that

1833
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 10: I wanted to talk about before we finish was climate change,

1834
01:52:27,160 --> 01:52:30,840
Speaker 10: because you said, you know, we obviously like the it's

1835
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:34,000
Speaker 10: very hard for someone living in Europe or North America

1836
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 10: this year to pretend that climate change isn't happening, like

1837
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:44,000
Speaker 10: with soaring temperatures, hurricane in California, wildfires everywhere. Can you

1838
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:45,960
Speaker 10: explain a little bit, because I think one thing that

1839
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:49,559
Speaker 10: people fail to connect is and maybe that's largely due

1840
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:51,920
Speaker 10: to not bad reporting perhaps, but like it doesn't get

1841
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:53,920
Speaker 10: mentioned in reporting when we talk about migration, we don't

1842
01:52:53,920 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 10: talk about climate change, and we talk about climate change

1843
01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:59,160
Speaker 10: and talk about migration. But the two go hand in hand, right,

1844
01:52:59,240 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 10: Like the people, certainly many of the people that I

1845
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,120
Speaker 10: see our certain border coming from areas most affected by

1846
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:07,720
Speaker 10: climate change. Is that something that see what sees too

1847
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 10: like as parts of the world that are more marginal

1848
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:13,280
Speaker 10: for people to live in get even harder to live in,

1849
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 10: those people coming being forced to leave.

1850
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:18,679
Speaker 5: I guess, well.

1851
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:24,720
Speaker 11: Look at science now and at research and like millions

1852
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 11: and millions of people more will be possibly be because

1853
01:53:27,720 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 11: of climate change in the next in the next years.

1854
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:33,960
Speaker 11: We can't deny that fact. And we as European states

1855
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:38,360
Speaker 11: and European societies are a big part of why this

1856
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:41,960
Speaker 11: is actually happening and why climate change is increasing in

1857
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:45,479
Speaker 11: the in the speed that it is increasing right now.

1858
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:48,559
Speaker 11: So we have a huge responsibility to take care and

1859
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:52,040
Speaker 11: like to support people actually on the move. And I

1860
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:57,320
Speaker 11: mean as seawatch, we don't make any difference as of

1861
01:53:57,640 --> 01:54:00,599
Speaker 11: why people are fleeing, people are in the stress, said see,

1862
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:06,519
Speaker 11: people are being rescued. That's it. That's the only responsible like,

1863
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:09,960
Speaker 11: that's the only perspective we have supporting people that are

1864
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:13,880
Speaker 11: in distressed at SEE, because if you are calling an ambulance,

1865
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:16,880
Speaker 11: they also don't ask, oh, hey, why are you actually

1866
01:54:16,960 --> 01:54:20,800
Speaker 11: calling the ambulance like the jew and why are you

1867
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:24,280
Speaker 11: in this situation? The ambulance just coming. And this is

1868
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 11: this should also be always the case in the Mediterranean.

1869
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or anywhere else people at SEE. So

1870
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:34,720
Speaker 10: I wonder, like the last couple of I think they

1871
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,080
Speaker 10: wanted to ask you more broad but you spoke earlier

1872
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:43,080
Speaker 10: about the rise of right wing governments and movements in Europe.

1873
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:47,600
Speaker 10: And when we obviously talk about the history of the

1874
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,360
Speaker 10: right wing in Europe and we think about fascism, and

1875
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 10: I know people who listen to this podcast will be

1876
01:54:52,720 --> 01:54:56,120
Speaker 10: very invested in like their their history and current struggle

1877
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 10: of anti fascism. And would you say it was fair

1878
01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:00,560
Speaker 10: it would be fair to cast what see what she

1879
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:04,880
Speaker 10: is doing within the broader spectrum of opposing fascism or

1880
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 10: opposing I guess of nationalist state violence, right wing state violence.

1881
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:14,960
Speaker 11: Absolutely, we are part of antifascist movement. We are anti

1882
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:21,400
Speaker 11: fascists by court, so we definitely define ourselves as antifacious activists.

1883
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:21,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1884
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:24,760
Speaker 10: Nice, And I wonder last thing that people want to

1885
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:28,880
Speaker 10: show the solidarity you mentioned some ways, is there anything

1886
01:55:28,920 --> 01:55:31,920
Speaker 10: in particular, like I know people have contacted me about

1887
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:33,680
Speaker 10: volunteering for sea, which before en have directed them to

1888
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:36,440
Speaker 10: your website, But when we do have a lot of

1889
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 10: listeners in Europe, and they are particular things that you're

1890
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 10: looking for in volunteers. Obviously, anyone can donate and they

1891
01:55:43,360 --> 01:55:46,160
Speaker 10: should if they have money, But what are you as

1892
01:55:46,200 --> 01:55:50,040
Speaker 10: are certain qualifications you desperately need or so.

1893
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 11: I mean, we of course, always looking for people that

1894
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:57,800
Speaker 11: are supporting our operations, especially on sea, but also with

1895
01:55:57,880 --> 01:56:02,520
Speaker 11: our airplanes of course, So if you have captains qualifications

1896
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:06,960
Speaker 11: or other qualifications that allow you to go to see

1897
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:13,440
Speaker 11: and sale, or engineering qualifications for example, or medical qualifications

1898
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:16,800
Speaker 11: as well, we're always looking for nurses for doctors supporting

1899
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:19,520
Speaker 11: on the ships, then please just like have a look

1900
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 11: at the website and reach out. We have a specific

1901
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:25,240
Speaker 11: form as well where you can just also sign in

1902
01:56:25,320 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 11: for interest basically, and then our crewing department takes care

1903
01:56:29,240 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 11: and sees like who and like when it's actually fitting.

1904
01:56:33,680 --> 01:56:36,360
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, that's great pla people can reach out and

1905
01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:38,520
Speaker 10: before we finish up, is there anything else that you'd

1906
01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:40,160
Speaker 10: like to share with people that you think we haven't

1907
01:56:40,200 --> 01:56:40,480
Speaker 10: got to.

1908
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:45,600
Speaker 11: I think we didn't talk about FRONTACS for example, or.

1909
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:48,280
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, let's do it. Do you explain frontext to people?

1910
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:54,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, So FRONTICICS is the European Border Protection Agency I'm

1911
01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:58,880
Speaker 11: so called actually of course god and border agency and

1912
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:04,040
Speaker 11: FRONTICS is it's also surveying and working on the Mediterranean

1913
01:57:04,120 --> 01:57:13,960
Speaker 11: Sea and like responsible for for border protection specifically in

1914
01:57:14,040 --> 01:57:17,200
Speaker 11: general or it actually has a double mandate, so border

1915
01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:20,879
Speaker 11: protection on the one side, but also coast guard duties

1916
01:57:21,080 --> 01:57:24,840
Speaker 11: Europeans on the other side. What we criticize is of

1917
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:29,200
Speaker 11: course that FONTECS does so called border protection and does

1918
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:32,400
Speaker 11: not actually support people on the movement, people in distress.

1919
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:36,120
Speaker 11: So this double mandate does not work at all. We

1920
01:57:36,240 --> 01:57:39,360
Speaker 11: see a lot of non coordination, a lot of a

1921
01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:42,440
Speaker 11: lot of non information and also a lot of violence

1922
01:57:42,520 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 11: of context. So for example, FANTECS or there was a

1923
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:50,800
Speaker 11: report from Human Rights Watch for example, and that fontext

1924
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:56,640
Speaker 11: is complicit in pullbacks by the so called Libyan Coast

1925
01:57:56,680 --> 01:58:00,320
Speaker 11: Guard because there is actually communication between FONTECS and the

1926
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:03,320
Speaker 11: so called Libyan Coast Guard, and the so called Libyan

1927
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:06,400
Speaker 11: cost guard. Cost Guard can then detect boats in the

1928
01:58:06,440 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 11: stress their location with this information but provided by FONTICS

1929
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 11: and bring people or force people back to Libya for example.

1930
01:58:14,480 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 11: So FANTAICS is really an actor that we criticize hugely

1931
01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:24,960
Speaker 11: and that we actually working towards their abolishment because how

1932
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:29,080
Speaker 11: the organization or the institution is working right now does

1933
01:58:29,160 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 11: not have anything to do with the legal.

1934
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:32,640
Speaker 6: Rights of people.

1935
01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:34,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and people will.

1936
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:38,520
Speaker 10: We spoke with Ruth Kinner, who who's a professor in

1937
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:41,880
Speaker 10: Love for about lifeboats in the UK, because the UK

1938
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:46,480
Speaker 10: has a notionally it has a very real distinction between

1939
01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:50,920
Speaker 10: rescuing people at sea and doing border reinforcement and those

1940
01:58:50,920 --> 01:58:56,760
Speaker 10: two different things, no different, Yeah, if people like It's

1941
01:58:56,800 --> 01:58:59,360
Speaker 10: also in crop Parkins book Mutual eight, he talks about

1942
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,320
Speaker 10: the value of lifeboats and volunteer organizations such as your own,

1943
01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:05,480
Speaker 10: that it's very foundational to people talk a lot about

1944
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:08,080
Speaker 10: mutual aid, but this is like one of the I guess,

1945
01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:12,960
Speaker 10: like foundational examples of it. So like, can you explain

1946
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 10: what a better system? And obviously I'm not asking you

1947
01:59:15,800 --> 01:59:18,680
Speaker 10: to like solve all the world's problems, but like, would

1948
01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:22,200
Speaker 10: what would it? We can make relatively few changes, I guess,

1949
01:59:22,240 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 10: and make this so much more humane and not have

1950
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:27,520
Speaker 10: someone's little children around in the Mediterranean so that I

1951
01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:29,280
Speaker 10: don't know, people don't have to live next to someone

1952
01:59:29,320 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 10: who speaks a different language from them, or whatever people's

1953
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:34,400
Speaker 10: fears are of migrants, can you explain what that would

1954
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:34,800
Speaker 10: look like?

1955
01:59:35,960 --> 01:59:39,240
Speaker 11: I mean, we need freedom of movement, that's for sure. Like,

1956
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:41,640
Speaker 11: and this is also one of our basic demands. We

1957
01:59:41,720 --> 01:59:45,320
Speaker 11: need freedom of movement for everyone. We need people to

1958
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:49,480
Speaker 11: have legal and safe pathways through Europe, so safe passage.

1959
01:59:50,040 --> 01:59:54,120
Speaker 11: We need a system that, in accordance to the needs

1960
01:59:54,160 --> 01:59:58,280
Speaker 11: and the wants of people, people are actually also redistributed

1961
01:59:58,360 --> 02:00:02,200
Speaker 11: over the European Union and can join their family members

1962
02:00:02,200 --> 02:00:06,840
Speaker 11: for example, or their friends, their support systems while trying

1963
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:10,440
Speaker 11: to flee violence, while trying to flee from places where

1964
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:13,600
Speaker 11: they cannot live in the end, So this is really

1965
02:00:13,720 --> 02:00:16,600
Speaker 11: like what we are focusing on in the end to

1966
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:23,640
Speaker 11: have people coming to Europe through safe passages. So and

1967
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:26,680
Speaker 11: this is really what needs to be established. And of

1968
02:00:26,720 --> 02:00:29,520
Speaker 11: course in this current situation, as a first step, we

1969
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 11: need a European coordinated search and rescue program with the

1970
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:38,440
Speaker 11: only mandate to rescue votes in distress, to rescue people

1971
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:41,760
Speaker 11: in distress, to actually make sure that the situation, the

1972
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:46,000
Speaker 11: death trap that the Mediterranean seas actually constituting at the moment, stops,

1973
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:47,400
Speaker 11: Like this situation has.

1974
02:00:47,320 --> 02:00:48,200
Speaker 6: To stop immediately.

1975
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:51,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, and it could stop very quickly, right the level

1976
02:00:51,160 --> 02:00:54,560
Speaker 10: of resources at state type available to deploy, they could

1977
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 10: make this go away very quickly.

1978
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:01,800
Speaker 11: I think they could have. There wouldn't be actually focused

1979
02:01:01,800 --> 02:01:04,760
Speaker 11: on externalization and blocking people to come.

1980
02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:08,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I think, like, I don't know, when you

1981
02:01:08,680 --> 02:01:11,480
Speaker 10: think about that, that's a conscious choice and the results

1982
02:01:11,480 --> 02:01:14,600
Speaker 10: of that. It's very, very sad. And I mean in

1983
02:01:14,600 --> 02:01:16,600
Speaker 10: the UK we seem to just talk about it openly now,

1984
02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:21,040
Speaker 10: like they have whole campaigns about stopping small boats. But yeah,

1985
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:23,320
Speaker 10: I think people need to realize that, like, it's not

1986
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 10: boats that they're stopping, it's little children that they're consigning

1987
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:28,440
Speaker 10: to risking their lives.

1988
02:01:29,240 --> 02:01:33,360
Speaker 11: Yeah, children, it's women, it's men, it's non binary persons,

1989
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:39,760
Speaker 11: it's everyone who wants to reach safety, and everyone deserves

1990
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:43,200
Speaker 11: to be rescued. Everyone deserves to be to live nor

1991
02:01:43,320 --> 02:01:44,200
Speaker 11: questions asked.

1992
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:46,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, no, I think that's a wonderful place to end. Actually,

1993
02:01:47,120 --> 02:01:50,880
Speaker 10: I think it's a hard statement to disagree with. Can

1994
02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 10: you what are your Twitter handles? Where can people find

1995
02:01:53,560 --> 02:01:55,480
Speaker 10: and follow seawatch.

1996
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:56,520
Speaker 11: Do watch crew?

1997
02:01:57,200 --> 02:01:59,560
Speaker 5: Okay, and that's all over, that's your U r L

1998
02:01:59,600 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 5: as well.

1999
02:02:01,240 --> 02:02:05,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, so let me have a look. So I'm not

2000
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:10,400
Speaker 11: saying saying anything wrong, but Seewatch crew so at Seawatch

2001
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 11: Crew all together and US and small is actually our

2002
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:19,440
Speaker 11: German account and our international account is at Seawatch underline

2003
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:24,080
Speaker 11: in I n t L for international, and then we

2004
02:02:24,120 --> 02:02:27,000
Speaker 11: also have an Italian account for all Italian speakers.

2005
02:02:27,080 --> 02:02:29,200
Speaker 10: Okay, perfect, Yeah, we'll make sure that we link to

2006
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:32,240
Speaker 10: those two. And thank you very much for your time

2007
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:34,680
Speaker 10: this afternoon, your time, morning, my time.

2008
02:02:35,560 --> 02:02:38,120
Speaker 11: Thank you so much for the request for talking to us.

2009
02:02:38,440 --> 02:02:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, welcome back to it could happen here

2010
02:02:57,960 --> 02:03:02,080
Speaker 1: a podcast about things falling apart, and you can't spell

2011
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:07,080
Speaker 1: falling apart without Republican Party, or at least several of

2012
02:03:07,120 --> 02:03:10,360
Speaker 1: the letters fall into the party you use that for

2013
02:03:10,440 --> 02:03:14,400
Speaker 1: that are also in this Garrison. Hello, how are you

2014
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:18,760
Speaker 1: doing good well with Garrison in Atlanta?

2015
02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 13: Yeah, yes, I just got back from a visit in

2016
02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:25,880
Speaker 13: Portland where we watched many upsetting things.

2017
02:03:27,080 --> 02:03:28,320
Speaker 5: Bak, we didn't.

2018
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:30,240
Speaker 1: Watch a lot of upsetting things, Yeah.

2019
02:03:30,120 --> 02:03:33,680
Speaker 13: Probably the most upsetting of which was the first of

2020
02:03:33,720 --> 02:03:35,920
Speaker 13: the twenty twenty four Republican primary.

2021
02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:36,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2022
02:03:36,480 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, boy, it sure was nice watching those Indonesian war

2023
02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:46,560
Speaker 1: criminals reenact their crimes. Really cleared my mind after watching

2024
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: the Republican debate.

2025
02:03:48,120 --> 02:03:50,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, that was a really good palette cleanser.

2026
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:56,920
Speaker 1: So, you know, this is not the most timely thing

2027
02:03:56,960 --> 02:03:59,560
Speaker 1: because we didn't want to just like do a reaction

2028
02:03:59,640 --> 02:04:02,480
Speaker 1: podcas has where we talked about here's what we thought about.

2029
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:06,800
Speaker 1: You know, vi Vec's answer or anonymous white man number

2030
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:09,600
Speaker 1: four is answer to you know, these various questions.

2031
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:12,320
Speaker 13: I thought Chris Christy was very put together.

2032
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:13,080
Speaker 4: Very on.

2033
02:04:15,320 --> 02:04:16,560
Speaker 5: Message.

2034
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, now we wanted to look at like wait for

2035
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:21,040
Speaker 1: some polls to come out and and actually kind of

2036
02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:24,280
Speaker 1: both talk about what happened and kind of what worried us,

2037
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:27,440
Speaker 1: and also how it seems to be playing, uh with

2038
02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 1: the bass and the American voters in general, because all

2039
02:04:32,200 --> 02:04:35,280
Speaker 1: of this matters, because again, the Republicans are I mean,

2040
02:04:35,560 --> 02:04:38,240
Speaker 1: we are all a little bit the architects of collapse

2041
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:40,840
Speaker 1: here and in our in our lovely society. But the

2042
02:04:40,920 --> 02:04:44,920
Speaker 1: Republicans they like to they like to really pump that

2043
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:49,680
Speaker 1: shit into a higher gear. So, you know, I think

2044
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:51,920
Speaker 1: the thing that kind of stuck out to both of

2045
02:04:52,040 --> 02:04:54,520
Speaker 1: us most and the thing that's been one of the

2046
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:57,280
Speaker 1: primary kind of takeaways that one of the main things

2047
02:04:57,280 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 1: people have talked about after the debate, uh was, was

2048
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:05,080
Speaker 1: Vivek's performance. Vivek Ramaswami, who is prior to I even

2049
02:05:05,160 --> 02:05:07,360
Speaker 1: made a little comment prior to it that I didn't

2050
02:05:07,760 --> 02:05:09,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know much about him or think he was

2051
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:12,080
Speaker 1: much of an entity in this because, uh, you know,

2052
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:14,760
Speaker 1: in in part because that's true. He was somebody who

2053
02:05:14,840 --> 02:05:18,200
Speaker 1: is just kind of coming onto the scene in politics.

2054
02:05:19,120 --> 02:05:21,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about how he

2055
02:05:21,960 --> 02:05:25,000
Speaker 1: started that because there was some stuff I was unaware

2056
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:29,360
Speaker 1: of here prior to him announcing his candidacy. He's one

2057
02:05:29,400 --> 02:05:31,800
Speaker 1: of these guys who kind of started because he comes

2058
02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 1: out of biotech. He's a quote unquote entrepreneur, and specifically

2059
02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:38,720
Speaker 1: he's the kind of shitty entrepreneur who like has managed

2060
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:43,400
Speaker 1: to get rich largely without actually contributing anything, like primarily

2061
02:05:43,840 --> 02:05:48,240
Speaker 1: buying up patents for drugs in development that he profits

2062
02:05:48,280 --> 02:05:50,440
Speaker 1: on but then later are found not to work. Is

2063
02:05:50,440 --> 02:05:53,960
Speaker 1: a big part of how where his fortune comes from.

2064
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:59,040
Speaker 1: And he started kind of about really about a year ago,

2065
02:05:59,120 --> 02:06:02,680
Speaker 1: I think, trying to brand himself as a kind of

2066
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:07,720
Speaker 1: political influencer, specifically through like social media. And he had

2067
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:12,120
Speaker 1: been getting a lot of attention, like as a result

2068
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:14,440
Speaker 1: of the success of his because he's one of these

2069
02:06:14,480 --> 02:06:17,440
Speaker 1: guys he's good at using social media. He gets up

2070
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:20,160
Speaker 1: to you know, he's had a couple one hundred thousand

2071
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:24,120
Speaker 1: followers when he announces his candidacy, and prior to announcing

2072
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:25,960
Speaker 1: his candidacy, he had done well enough at kind of

2073
02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:29,000
Speaker 1: building a brand for himself that in twenty two or

2074
02:06:29,040 --> 02:06:31,680
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, early twenty twenty two, he and the

2075
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:36,920
Speaker 1: Daily Wire start putting together a contract and they want

2076
02:06:36,960 --> 02:06:41,360
Speaker 1: to bring him on, presumably for like a frightening, like

2077
02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:44,120
Speaker 1: a deeply upsetting amount of money, to do something that

2078
02:06:44,120 --> 02:06:47,360
Speaker 1: they haven't really done before, which is just kind of

2079
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:52,560
Speaker 1: launch a like a show based around him that's like

2080
02:06:52,640 --> 02:06:56,400
Speaker 1: a news and politics show, which was a little bit

2081
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:58,680
Speaker 1: different kind of than a lot of the deals that

2082
02:06:58,880 --> 02:07:01,600
Speaker 1: like they've had before, where it's more like, you know,

2083
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:04,760
Speaker 1: here's Matt Walsh's podcast where he's going to, you know,

2084
02:07:05,120 --> 02:07:07,560
Speaker 1: try to get people killed. Here's Been Shapiro's podcast where

2085
02:07:07,600 --> 02:07:09,160
Speaker 1: he's going to get angry at the Barbie movie. This

2086
02:07:09,320 --> 02:07:11,680
Speaker 1: was like, we're launching a news and culture like a

2087
02:07:11,720 --> 02:07:14,160
Speaker 1: news and politics podcast, and Vivek's going to be like

2088
02:07:14,200 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 1: the face of it, right, yeah, with.

2089
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:19,240
Speaker 13: Like attempts at actual like a political analysis, mostly from

2090
02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:20,680
Speaker 13: a libertarian perspective.

2091
02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:24,760
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And so that's the idea and kind of

2092
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:28,400
Speaker 1: midway through after you know, a significant amount of time

2093
02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:31,560
Speaker 1: in development and according to kind of what Jeremy Boring,

2094
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:35,600
Speaker 1: who's the CEO of a Daily Wire, said after they

2095
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:37,600
Speaker 1: had spent a bit of money kind of working on

2096
02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:40,800
Speaker 1: sort of the concept for this, he backs out rather suddenly,

2097
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:43,440
Speaker 1: boring later said his priorities were changing and we could

2098
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:45,600
Speaker 1: have chosen to be aggressive about it. We did spend

2099
02:07:45,640 --> 02:07:47,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of money on the prep that we've

2100
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:49,960
Speaker 1: been doing. Like so, I think there's a little bit

2101
02:07:49,960 --> 02:07:53,919
Speaker 1: of bad blood there actually between them. But he bounces

2102
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:57,040
Speaker 1: from this deal with the Daily Wire to announce his

2103
02:07:57,120 --> 02:08:01,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four campaign run. And this seems to have

2104
02:08:01,480 --> 02:08:04,880
Speaker 1: kind of started in early part, like earlier on in

2105
02:08:04,920 --> 02:08:07,880
Speaker 1: this year, start of twenty twenty three, when he has

2106
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:11,440
Speaker 1: this meeting with a small group of who were described

2107
02:08:11,480 --> 02:08:16,560
Speaker 1: in this ABC News article as conservative operatives, to discuss

2108
02:08:16,600 --> 02:08:19,160
Speaker 1: his exciting plans. I'm going to read a quote from

2109
02:08:19,160 --> 02:08:22,840
Speaker 1: that article. I'm going to run for president. Ramaswami sat

2110
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:25,680
Speaker 1: on the call. Ramaswami pitched himself as a candidate who

2111
02:08:25,680 --> 02:08:28,920
Speaker 1: could make serious waves in the Republican primary at the meeting.

2112
02:08:29,160 --> 02:08:32,320
Speaker 1: When met with some skepticism, Ramaswami argued that his candidacy

2113
02:08:32,360 --> 02:08:35,360
Speaker 1: could also dissuade Florida Governor Ron De Santis from entering

2114
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:37,840
Speaker 1: the race. According to a source who was on the call.

2115
02:08:38,080 --> 02:08:40,320
Speaker 1: In the lead up to his announcement, Ramaswami would tell

2116
02:08:40,360 --> 02:08:43,120
Speaker 1: several other conservative activists that he believed that if he ran,

2117
02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:46,200
Speaker 1: it could stop DeSantis from running or impact his viability

2118
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:48,560
Speaker 1: as a candidate if he did enter the race. Sources

2119
02:08:48,600 --> 02:08:52,560
Speaker 1: said his campaign has turbocharged Ramaswami's social media presence, with

2120
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,480
Speaker 1: his number of followers on Twitter known as x nearly quadrupling,

2121
02:08:56,480 --> 02:08:58,440
Speaker 1: ballooning from a little over two hundred and thirty six

2122
02:08:58,480 --> 02:09:00,960
Speaker 1: thousand prior to announcing his candidate to see to now

2123
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:04,720
Speaker 1: nearly a million followers just six months later. And so,

2124
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's a couple of things that's interesting to

2125
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:09,960
Speaker 1: me about that. One that he's sort of he pitched

2126
02:09:10,040 --> 02:09:13,240
Speaker 1: himself as I can stop DeSantis from running. And it's

2127
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:14,920
Speaker 1: a little unclear to me if these are guys that

2128
02:09:14,960 --> 02:09:18,120
Speaker 1: specifically like hate Dysantis, or if it's more they don't

2129
02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 1: want him running against Trump, they don't want like a

2130
02:09:20,680 --> 02:09:22,080
Speaker 1: fight between those two guys.

2131
02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:23,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm saying.

2132
02:09:23,720 --> 02:09:26,120
Speaker 13: Postpone his political trajectory a little bit.

2133
02:09:26,640 --> 02:09:29,080
Speaker 1: And it was also, you know, before the debate, it

2134
02:09:29,280 --> 02:09:31,800
Speaker 1: was kind of looking like because he was he was

2135
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:36,760
Speaker 1: creeping up on Dysantis yea, and like the last couple

2136
02:09:36,800 --> 02:09:39,000
Speaker 1: of polls before the debate, taking and beating him in

2137
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:42,680
Speaker 1: a couple of states, which was interesting, you know, it

2138
02:09:42,720 --> 02:09:45,160
Speaker 1: was kind of looking like it was working. And then

2139
02:09:45,200 --> 02:09:47,400
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of the debate. We'll talk more about

2140
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:50,000
Speaker 1: Poles later and we'll talk about other candidates, but it

2141
02:09:50,040 --> 02:09:53,240
Speaker 1: looks like he's kind of either plateaued or lost a

2142
02:09:53,280 --> 02:09:57,040
Speaker 1: bit of support, even though a significant number of Republicans,

2143
02:09:57,120 --> 02:10:00,960
Speaker 1: most in some polls think that he won the debate,

2144
02:10:02,120 --> 02:10:04,720
Speaker 1: which is interesting to me. Now, when you and I

2145
02:10:04,760 --> 02:10:07,360
Speaker 1: watched this, kind of the thing that that concerned us

2146
02:10:07,480 --> 02:10:10,400
Speaker 1: was that we both saw him as sort of messaging

2147
02:10:10,480 --> 02:10:13,760
Speaker 1: to the Nick Fuintes crowd. And what I mean by

2148
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:19,640
Speaker 1: that is young conservative activists who are at least willing

2149
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:24,560
Speaker 1: to dance with explicitly white nationalist ideas and who have

2150
02:10:24,720 --> 02:10:28,120
Speaker 1: some sympathies with the insurgent right, including with acts of

2151
02:10:28,200 --> 02:10:31,240
Speaker 1: violence committed by the insurgent right. You know, And obviously

2152
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:34,680
Speaker 1: Vivek is not he's not Nick Fuintes, he's not a Nazi,

2153
02:10:34,720 --> 02:10:37,240
Speaker 1: he's not going to make jokes about the Holocaust. But

2154
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:40,040
Speaker 1: he does talk about certain things in a similar way,

2155
02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:43,640
Speaker 1: particularly this idea of like the fact that immigration is

2156
02:10:44,080 --> 02:10:50,840
Speaker 1: altering our national character. He talks national which is something

2157
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:54,160
Speaker 1: you hear a lot sometimes in more explicit terms from

2158
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 1: these like basically these Nazis right, So it's it's kind

2159
02:10:57,080 --> 02:10:59,360
Speaker 1: of a he's taking this term and he's washing it

2160
02:10:59,440 --> 02:10:59,960
Speaker 1: a little bit.

2161
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:04,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean he throughout the debate, he definitely was

2162
02:11:04,280 --> 02:11:08,120
Speaker 13: like very quick to betray himself as like the most

2163
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:10,960
Speaker 13: conservative person on stage whenever there'd be a question about

2164
02:11:11,040 --> 02:11:14,240
Speaker 13: like like how extreme are you on this topic, and

2165
02:11:14,920 --> 02:11:16,560
Speaker 13: they didn't raise it that way, but that's essentially what

2166
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,160
Speaker 13: they're asking. He was the first person to raise his

2167
02:11:19,160 --> 02:11:21,840
Speaker 13: hand every time, and he did it very enthusiastically. Many

2168
02:11:21,880 --> 02:11:23,760
Speaker 13: of the other people on stage had a lot of

2169
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:27,879
Speaker 13: like half raised hands. Yeah, we both noticed that Dysantis,

2170
02:11:28,000 --> 02:11:30,480
Speaker 13: before raising his hand on a certain question, looked both

2171
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:33,760
Speaker 13: ways across the stage to see who else was raising

2172
02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:36,240
Speaker 13: their hand before he raised his. But every single time

2173
02:11:37,200 --> 02:11:40,160
Speaker 13: Vivik was the first guy to like jolt his hand up.

2174
02:11:40,200 --> 02:11:45,080
Speaker 13: He was very it was very very intentionally positioning positioning

2175
02:11:45,160 --> 02:11:48,960
Speaker 13: himself as the most extreme option on the on the

2176
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:51,560
Speaker 13: table there. And it wasn't just I think the content

2177
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,680
Speaker 13: of what he was saying that that made kind of

2178
02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:57,720
Speaker 13: parallels between him and people like Nick Fuentez are just

2179
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:02,120
Speaker 13: kind of younger, younger conservative of like content creators and influencers.

2180
02:12:02,360 --> 02:12:05,600
Speaker 13: It was also like the way he talked, like his

2181
02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:08,920
Speaker 13: his his speech pattern, how fast he was.

2182
02:12:09,280 --> 02:12:10,600
Speaker 5: Very high school debater.

2183
02:12:11,400 --> 02:12:15,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, it just it's it was reminiscent of all

2184
02:12:15,360 --> 02:12:18,200
Speaker 13: of like the horrible shit that I watched for my job,

2185
02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:20,480
Speaker 13: like whenever I've watched through a whole bunch of like

2186
02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:22,919
Speaker 13: like like zoomer conservative content creators.

2187
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:23,560
Speaker 4: It was.

2188
02:12:23,600 --> 02:12:26,000
Speaker 13: It was that, but now on the debate stage. And

2189
02:12:26,120 --> 02:12:27,880
Speaker 13: this is something I even like kind of talked about

2190
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:30,400
Speaker 13: in the last uh the Santis fash wave thing is

2191
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 13: like where we are about to hit this big wave

2192
02:12:33,880 --> 02:12:36,080
Speaker 13: of conservative zoomers who are going to be starting to

2193
02:12:36,160 --> 02:12:39,240
Speaker 13: run for office, who were raised in this media environment,

2194
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:41,960
Speaker 13: and they're going to act like all of these kind

2195
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:44,400
Speaker 13: of commentators that we see on like YouTube, that we

2196
02:12:44,440 --> 02:12:46,680
Speaker 13: see on Rumble, that we see on Twitch. They're going

2197
02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:47,960
Speaker 13: to be emulating that style.

2198
02:12:48,240 --> 02:12:49,640
Speaker 1: I want to put a pin in that because we're

2199
02:12:49,640 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: going to come back to this with a with some

2200
02:12:51,600 --> 02:12:54,840
Speaker 1: audio from Nick himself that expresses a similar opinion. But

2201
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:56,560
Speaker 1: I want to note a couple of the things that

2202
02:12:56,560 --> 02:12:59,440
Speaker 1: he specifically expressed that I found, we found very fascy,

2203
02:12:59,480 --> 02:13:02,000
Speaker 1: and that I cansider to be really concerning. Top of

2204
02:13:02,040 --> 02:13:04,400
Speaker 1: the list is the fact that he has openly stated

2205
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:05,839
Speaker 1: his desire to bomb Mexico.

2206
02:13:06,320 --> 02:13:08,400
Speaker 5: That is a real problem.

2207
02:13:08,720 --> 02:13:08,840
Speaker 11: Uh.

2208
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 1: And the degree to which a significant number of folks

2209
02:13:11,400 --> 02:13:14,000
Speaker 1: on that stage weren't completely willing to put that off

2210
02:13:14,000 --> 02:13:18,760
Speaker 1: the table is deeply concerning. That's not great, that's a

2211
02:13:18,960 --> 02:13:22,040
Speaker 1: that's a Now. The upside is that, like, maybe that's

2212
02:13:22,120 --> 02:13:26,840
Speaker 1: crazy enough that there's no chance Independence will vote for it,

2213
02:13:27,080 --> 02:13:29,960
Speaker 1: But you never fully want to say that in America.

2214
02:13:30,040 --> 02:13:32,720
Speaker 1: There's no way to know, no way to know whatsoever.

2215
02:13:34,720 --> 02:13:37,640
Speaker 1: The other thing is that, you know he has so

2216
02:13:37,800 --> 02:13:40,680
Speaker 1: Nick and a lot of these guys on the fascist

2217
02:13:40,720 --> 02:13:45,160
Speaker 1: youth right, they're huge into removing people from being able

2218
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:48,200
Speaker 1: to vote. You know, Nick himself is basically a monarchist, right,

2219
02:13:48,280 --> 02:13:49,960
Speaker 1: like he wants a Catholic monarchist.

2220
02:13:50,160 --> 02:13:51,760
Speaker 13: He's like a Catholic monarchist fascist.

2221
02:13:51,880 --> 02:13:52,080
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2222
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:53,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, this is not a fringe opinion.

2223
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:57,400
Speaker 1: Michael Knowles, who is one of the major personalities that

2224
02:13:57,480 --> 02:14:00,000
Speaker 1: the Daily Wire, one of the largest conservative news organists

2225
02:14:00,440 --> 02:14:02,600
Speaker 1: in the country. Has just recently went on a rant

2226
02:14:02,600 --> 02:14:05,680
Speaker 1: talking about all the benefits of monarchy and protecting freedoms,

2227
02:14:05,920 --> 02:14:08,600
Speaker 1: by which he means the property of rich people.

2228
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:10,880
Speaker 13: Knowles is also a tradcat justice Yeah.

2229
02:14:11,320 --> 02:14:16,040
Speaker 1: Knowles is also a Catholic traditionalist. Yeah, and so these guys,

2230
02:14:16,080 --> 02:14:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, they both talk about that. And the thing

2231
02:14:17,880 --> 02:14:20,840
Speaker 1: that Vivek is doing that is sort of the more

2232
02:14:21,000 --> 02:14:23,480
Speaker 1: acceptable because you can't get up on stage yet at

2233
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:25,480
Speaker 1: a Republican debate and talk about the need for a

2234
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:28,880
Speaker 1: king right, but you can talk about the need to

2235
02:14:29,080 --> 02:14:33,280
Speaker 1: cut people out of the franchise right. You know, Nick

2236
02:14:33,440 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 1: being much more extreme and having the freedom to be

2237
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:39,320
Speaker 1: more extreme, talks a lot about repealing the Nineteenth Amendment,

2238
02:14:39,400 --> 02:14:42,160
Speaker 1: taking the right to vote away from women. Vivek is

2239
02:14:42,200 --> 02:14:43,720
Speaker 1: not going to say that, but he did say this.

2240
02:14:44,240 --> 02:14:46,879
Speaker 1: Young people don't value a country that they just inherit.

2241
02:14:47,200 --> 02:14:49,240
Speaker 1: That's why I've said every high school senior, I believe

2242
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:51,120
Speaker 1: she'd have to pass the same civics test that an

2243
02:14:51,160 --> 02:14:53,360
Speaker 1: immigrant in this country has to pass in order to

2244
02:14:53,400 --> 02:14:55,560
Speaker 1: become a voting citizen of the country. If that eighteen

2245
02:14:55,600 --> 02:14:58,000
Speaker 1: year old wants all the privileges of citizenship as well.

2246
02:14:59,200 --> 02:15:01,640
Speaker 1: This is deeply con learning for a number of reasons,

2247
02:15:02,080 --> 02:15:05,800
Speaker 1: including the fact that any barrier you're put to voting

2248
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:08,920
Speaker 1: is going to reduce the number of people, specifically people

2249
02:15:08,920 --> 02:15:11,400
Speaker 1: who are likely to vote for Democrats who do it.

2250
02:15:12,160 --> 02:15:15,280
Speaker 1: But number two, like who gets to determine those tests? Well,

2251
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:19,080
Speaker 1: we're already seeing the way in which the state positions,

2252
02:15:19,120 --> 02:15:22,520
Speaker 1: and like states like Florida on education are fundamentally changing

2253
02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:25,160
Speaker 1: the amount of information kids are allowed to get, they

2254
02:15:25,200 --> 02:15:27,920
Speaker 1: also theoretically would have the ability to fundamentally change the

2255
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:31,320
Speaker 1: nature of this test, you know, so that you know,

2256
02:15:31,400 --> 02:15:35,040
Speaker 1: you have to express certain opinions and be inculcated in

2257
02:15:35,080 --> 02:15:36,760
Speaker 1: certain opinions in order to be able to vote.

2258
02:15:36,760 --> 02:15:38,360
Speaker 2: This is a real problem.

2259
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:41,040
Speaker 5: Vivek, you know, concerns us both for this. Again.

2260
02:15:41,080 --> 02:15:43,120
Speaker 1: We will talk about his kind of popularity in a second,

2261
02:15:43,160 --> 02:15:46,800
Speaker 1: but I wanted to because when we both kind of felt,

2262
02:15:47,040 --> 02:15:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, this is a guy who has a lot

2263
02:15:49,160 --> 02:15:52,320
Speaker 1: of that fuintes energy he's bringing. And so I looked like,

2264
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:56,120
Speaker 1: what is Nick been saying about this guy? And I

2265
02:15:56,200 --> 02:15:59,280
Speaker 1: found this video from a website you're gonna hate called

2266
02:15:59,360 --> 02:16:06,720
Speaker 1: Zoomer Nash News Garrison. It's a substack that just a Yeah,

2267
02:16:06,880 --> 02:16:10,040
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of clips from Yeah Nick Show

2268
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:13,160
Speaker 1: and stuff. So we're gonna we're gonna start watching this

2269
02:16:13,360 --> 02:16:16,800
Speaker 1: Zoomer National News clip because there's a couple of points

2270
02:16:16,800 --> 02:16:18,640
Speaker 1: that he makes in the first couple of first few

2271
02:16:18,680 --> 02:16:23,160
Speaker 1: minutes of it that I think are are unfortunately worth

2272
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:28,240
Speaker 1: listening to and then discussing and then being unhappy.

2273
02:16:28,800 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, the only person that is going to be good

2274
02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:31,680
Speaker 9: for is Vivak.

2275
02:16:32,520 --> 02:16:35,280
Speaker 8: It's bad for DeSantis because he can't confront Trump. It's

2276
02:16:35,280 --> 02:16:38,240
Speaker 8: bad for everybody else for the same reason. The only

2277
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:40,200
Speaker 8: person that's good for is Vivak, who's going to get

2278
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:42,840
Speaker 8: a bigger stage. And that's why I wanted to talk

2279
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:48,000
Speaker 8: about tonight because it's interesting about the Vak. He's an

2280
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:54,000
Speaker 8: interesting phenomenon. He's a child of immigrants from India.

2281
02:16:54,440 --> 02:16:56,359
Speaker 9: I think his parents are from India.

2282
02:16:56,040 --> 02:17:00,480
Speaker 8: And they moved to Ohio and he became a self

2283
02:17:00,520 --> 02:17:03,280
Speaker 8: made nearly a billionaire. I think he's got an eight

2284
02:17:03,360 --> 02:17:09,240
Speaker 8: figure net worth, nine figure net worth. I read on

2285
02:17:09,320 --> 02:17:12,240
Speaker 8: Wikipedi he's got nine hundred and fifty million dollars. So

2286
02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:16,240
Speaker 8: he's a self made nearly a billionaire, first generation Asian

2287
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:18,760
Speaker 8: immigrant who as far as I know, didn't really have

2288
02:17:18,879 --> 02:17:21,200
Speaker 8: a much of a public profile or any kind of

2289
02:17:21,200 --> 02:17:25,199
Speaker 8: a political presence, and just took the country by storm

2290
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:28,800
Speaker 8: with a viral social media campaign. I think people just

2291
02:17:28,879 --> 02:17:31,560
Speaker 8: like what he says, at least that's what it appears

2292
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:35,920
Speaker 8: to be. And he's been controversial. I think a lot

2293
02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:37,959
Speaker 8: of people like him. I think even people that don't

2294
02:17:38,040 --> 02:17:40,200
Speaker 8: like him have commended him on his campaign, which has

2295
02:17:40,240 --> 02:17:44,480
Speaker 8: been successful. He's competitive with DeSantis. DeSantis had a bigger

2296
02:17:44,480 --> 02:17:47,560
Speaker 8: war chest than Trump. He had a bigger war chester

2297
02:17:47,600 --> 02:17:50,760
Speaker 8: than any governor in the United States has ever had.

2298
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:53,800
Speaker 8: I think he had raised two hundred million dollars in

2299
02:17:53,879 --> 02:17:56,960
Speaker 8: the last cycle, and he had the support of the

2300
02:17:57,040 --> 02:18:01,360
Speaker 8: Jews in Israel, and oh his mine to governor and

2301
02:18:01,520 --> 02:18:05,680
Speaker 8: back maybe the next best known politician in the race

2302
02:18:05,760 --> 02:18:08,800
Speaker 8: next to Trump and governor of a major state. And

2303
02:18:09,200 --> 02:18:11,480
Speaker 8: so in other words, he's got all these advantages, and

2304
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:15,840
Speaker 8: this other guy who really started from scratch is now

2305
02:18:15,920 --> 02:18:19,720
Speaker 8: competitive with him. And I'll say too, it is unfortunate

2306
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:25,560
Speaker 8: his look because you know, I know that probably a

2307
02:18:25,560 --> 02:18:28,160
Speaker 8: lot of Republicans are not totally on board with like

2308
02:18:29,280 --> 02:18:33,119
Speaker 8: Hindu Indian and I'm not making any kind of comment

2309
02:18:33,240 --> 02:18:36,440
Speaker 8: on that. I think that's just how things are, just

2310
02:18:36,440 --> 02:18:38,680
Speaker 8: like with Bobby Jindal or some of these other guys

2311
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:42,280
Speaker 8: that ran. When I see an Indian guy running with

2312
02:18:42,320 --> 02:18:46,200
Speaker 8: a name like vivek Ramaswami, let's not pretend I think

2313
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:49,600
Speaker 8: that's that's also a disadvantage for him, probably because the

2314
02:18:49,680 --> 02:18:51,320
Speaker 8: Republican voter base is all white.

2315
02:18:51,320 --> 02:18:52,520
Speaker 6: It's ninety percent white.

2316
02:18:52,520 --> 02:18:56,480
Speaker 4: And I know that they're they.

2317
02:18:56,480 --> 02:19:00,320
Speaker 8: Undertake great pains to convince the world they're not racist

2318
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:04,240
Speaker 8: or xenophobic or something like that. But you know, I'm

2319
02:19:04,280 --> 02:19:07,240
Speaker 8: sure they are not in love with that idea. Quite frankly,

2320
02:19:07,320 --> 02:19:09,600
Speaker 8: I'm not in love with that idea. I want a

2321
02:19:09,680 --> 02:19:13,240
Speaker 8: Christian to be president, not a Hindu. And I also

2322
02:19:13,320 --> 02:19:15,920
Speaker 8: would prefer a president whose name I could pronounce, like

2323
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:18,960
Speaker 8: Joe Biden, not vivek Ramaswami.

2324
02:19:20,879 --> 02:19:24,400
Speaker 1: Now, all right, that's quite a line from Nick. I

2325
02:19:24,400 --> 02:19:26,800
Speaker 1: think what he's actually saying there, Like, I think that's

2326
02:19:26,879 --> 02:19:30,840
Speaker 1: that's a joke, right, That's quite a line from Yeah,

2327
02:19:30,879 --> 02:19:33,000
Speaker 1: I think he's making he's making a little bit of

2328
02:19:33,040 --> 02:19:36,000
Speaker 1: a bit there, I don't think. But but and that

2329
02:19:36,040 --> 02:19:38,879
Speaker 1: becomes a little bit clear a bit later on, because

2330
02:19:38,920 --> 02:19:41,080
Speaker 1: he he talks about you know, he's talking about there

2331
02:19:41,160 --> 02:19:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of both how impressive, you know, objectively, the success

2332
02:19:45,280 --> 02:19:47,560
Speaker 1: of avex campaign has been, and how it points to

2333
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:49,480
Speaker 1: the fact that he has done some stuff right, even

2334
02:19:49,480 --> 02:19:52,240
Speaker 1: while he's saying I don't think he can win with

2335
02:19:52,320 --> 02:19:54,280
Speaker 1: the Republican voter base the way that it is, which

2336
02:19:54,320 --> 02:19:56,320
Speaker 1: I think is you know, partly shown by kind of

2337
02:19:56,360 --> 02:19:58,640
Speaker 1: some of these polls that that come out showing him

2338
02:19:58,680 --> 02:20:01,280
Speaker 1: losing support. But he he comes in a little bit later,

2339
02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:04,080
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes later, and he talks about why

2340
02:20:04,200 --> 02:20:07,920
Speaker 1: he likes Vivik, what he finds intriguing about him, and

2341
02:20:07,959 --> 02:20:09,840
Speaker 1: I think that this is kind of valuable to hear.

2342
02:20:10,320 --> 02:20:12,640
Speaker 8: It's really more like an advertising pitch. It's like a

2343
02:20:12,680 --> 02:20:17,200
Speaker 8: marketing pitch. It's the it's the perfect stereotype of like

2344
02:20:17,240 --> 02:20:20,880
Speaker 8: a canned used car salesman political pitch. That's what they're

2345
02:20:20,920 --> 02:20:24,160
Speaker 8: all like, Mike penns, Chris Christy. You could say they're

2346
02:20:24,240 --> 02:20:26,760
Speaker 8: like full of shit, like That's how it would characterize it.

2347
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:34,120
Speaker 8: They're like another full of shit conventional, polished politician. And

2348
02:20:34,480 --> 02:20:39,680
Speaker 8: they also all went through the steps. They're one state

2349
02:20:39,720 --> 02:20:43,080
Speaker 8: wide elections, you know, they're all governors or senators, Chris Christy,

2350
02:20:43,200 --> 02:20:48,520
Speaker 8: Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, Bergham, DeSantis, they're all governors. Tim

2351
02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:53,680
Speaker 8: Scott's a senator, and they have that canned full of

2352
02:20:53,720 --> 02:20:57,879
Speaker 8: shit polish political thing. Both Yang and Vivek not only

2353
02:20:57,920 --> 02:21:01,880
Speaker 8: are they not white, they're Asian and children of immigrants,

2354
02:21:02,320 --> 02:21:04,680
Speaker 8: but there's also something that characterizes them that they're kind

2355
02:21:04,680 --> 02:21:08,240
Speaker 8: of like a new type of campaign where it's super smart.

2356
02:21:09,240 --> 02:21:11,720
Speaker 8: When you listen to Vivek, it sounds a lot more

2357
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:14,280
Speaker 8: like a podcast. It sounds a lot more like a

2358
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:19,920
Speaker 8: polemical commentator like me, or like Tucker or like whoever,

2359
02:21:20,120 --> 02:21:23,040
Speaker 8: like Alex Jones for that matter, although that's a specific

2360
02:21:23,120 --> 02:21:25,840
Speaker 8: sort of thing, but maybe you understand what I mean.

2361
02:21:27,200 --> 02:21:32,640
Speaker 8: They're they're almost talking like they're talking to American people

2362
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:33,920
Speaker 8: who have a higher IQ.

2363
02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:40,040
Speaker 13: So sure, sure, buddy, your average podcast listener, your average

2364
02:21:40,120 --> 02:21:41,560
Speaker 13: high IQ podcast.

2365
02:21:41,760 --> 02:21:45,280
Speaker 1: This sounds smart like a podcaster, right, you know, we

2366
02:21:45,360 --> 02:21:47,000
Speaker 1: all know that about podcasters.

2367
02:21:47,280 --> 02:21:49,720
Speaker 13: It's it's it's super interesting that he made the exact

2368
02:21:49,720 --> 02:21:56,840
Speaker 13: same uh like observation that we did well when watching

2369
02:21:56,879 --> 02:22:00,119
Speaker 13: the debate, we like turn to each other. He's like, ohh,

2370
02:22:00,280 --> 02:22:01,560
Speaker 13: he's doing nick flood tests.

2371
02:22:01,680 --> 02:22:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and Nick Flinn test has has a similar

2372
02:22:04,080 --> 02:22:08,440
Speaker 1: idea about him. So, you know, I think he's he

2373
02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:11,240
Speaker 1: really does worry me. You know, as we've stated his

2374
02:22:11,240 --> 02:22:15,400
Speaker 1: his polling isn't better in the wake of the debate. Yeah,

2375
02:22:15,400 --> 02:22:18,480
Speaker 1: but his personal brand has never been better, and that

2376
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:21,520
Speaker 1: he's everywhere every big network's been having him on to

2377
02:22:21,560 --> 02:22:25,000
Speaker 1: talk about shit like this has increased his visibility not

2378
02:22:25,080 --> 02:22:29,120
Speaker 1: just on social media but as a political commenter and

2379
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:31,200
Speaker 1: kind of the things that he's saying, because they are

2380
02:22:31,200 --> 02:22:34,480
Speaker 1: so much more extreme than stuff you know, even a

2381
02:22:34,520 --> 02:22:37,000
Speaker 1: guy like Pince was willing to say, I think that's

2382
02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:38,840
Speaker 1: a real problem. I think it's a problem that's going

2383
02:22:38,879 --> 02:22:40,600
Speaker 1: to be with us for a while because he's very young.

2384
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:43,440
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, I mean based on some of the poll stuff, Like,

2385
02:22:43,680 --> 02:22:48,200
Speaker 13: I'm not worried about him as someone who I think

2386
02:22:48,240 --> 02:22:51,320
Speaker 13: will be president. That's not my concern. My concern is

2387
02:22:51,560 --> 02:22:54,959
Speaker 13: how he's going to be both influential and he's Yeah,

2388
02:22:55,000 --> 02:22:57,640
Speaker 13: he's setting himself up to be influential, and I guess

2389
02:22:57,680 --> 02:23:00,320
Speaker 13: even even more so, it's he's like an indo cater

2390
02:23:00,440 --> 02:23:02,440
Speaker 13: of what the future of the GOP is going to be.

2391
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:05,320
Speaker 13: And that's the big thing that is like causing me

2392
02:23:05,879 --> 02:23:08,200
Speaker 13: concern because, Yeah, it's the type of thing I've been

2393
02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:11,320
Speaker 13: thinking about more and more the past year as we've

2394
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:14,080
Speaker 13: had our first wave of like zoomer candidates and also

2395
02:23:14,120 --> 02:23:17,120
Speaker 13: you know millennial candidates that are they starting to fill

2396
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:18,720
Speaker 13: up Philip offices.

2397
02:23:19,600 --> 02:23:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I you know, I looked into I went

2398
02:23:22,120 --> 02:23:24,480
Speaker 1: to Nick's telegram too, because I kind of wanted to

2399
02:23:24,480 --> 02:23:26,240
Speaker 1: see is there more that he's been saying, and he

2400
02:23:26,320 --> 02:23:29,320
Speaker 1: has actually been sharing a lot about Vivec. One of

2401
02:23:29,360 --> 02:23:31,360
Speaker 1: the things I found was just like Vivek has called

2402
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:34,240
Speaker 1: specifically for Fuintes to be unbanned from Twitter.

2403
02:23:34,600 --> 02:23:36,560
Speaker 5: Nick is one of the few.

2404
02:23:36,360 --> 02:23:39,000
Speaker 1: People Elon is like, I am not willing to truck

2405
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:42,480
Speaker 1: with this motherfucker keep him off of my website. Uh,

2406
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:45,240
Speaker 1: And Vivek is is really not okay with that, which

2407
02:23:45,240 --> 02:23:48,720
Speaker 1: does point to, like, you don't specify that like most

2408
02:23:48,800 --> 02:23:52,240
Speaker 1: Republicans kind of prefer to believe pretend that Nick doesn't

2409
02:23:52,240 --> 02:23:54,680
Speaker 1: exist in public. So the fact that he's going to

2410
02:23:54,720 --> 02:23:57,440
Speaker 1: bad for him like this does point to the fact

2411
02:23:57,440 --> 02:24:01,880
Speaker 1: that he sees value and he sees a political future

2412
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:04,280
Speaker 1: and the people that Nick speaks to.

2413
02:24:04,400 --> 02:24:06,359
Speaker 5: For himself, right, this is.

2414
02:24:08,320 --> 02:24:11,760
Speaker 13: He's like very aware of this side of the political interests,

2415
02:24:11,920 --> 02:24:15,480
Speaker 13: Like he knows what their talking points are, He's familiar

2416
02:24:15,480 --> 02:24:18,480
Speaker 13: with how they speak, like he he's he's able to

2417
02:24:18,560 --> 02:24:21,959
Speaker 13: understand that this is like an actual, like political contingent.

2418
02:24:22,280 --> 02:24:25,039
Speaker 13: They may not be as reliable in showing up to

2419
02:24:25,080 --> 02:24:28,320
Speaker 13: the polls, but it is, you know, as more and

2420
02:24:28,360 --> 02:24:33,640
Speaker 13: more boomers, Uh die off, Sorry, no offense. Some of

2421
02:24:34,440 --> 02:24:36,959
Speaker 13: these are the people that are some of these are

2422
02:24:36,959 --> 02:24:39,240
Speaker 13: the people that are gonna, you know, start filling in

2423
02:24:39,920 --> 02:24:41,120
Speaker 13: filling in the voting gaps.

2424
02:24:42,200 --> 02:24:44,199
Speaker 1: The other thing that he shares a lot from Vivec,

2425
02:24:44,280 --> 02:24:47,000
Speaker 1: and there was like the specifically a clip from the

2426
02:24:47,000 --> 02:24:50,560
Speaker 1: debate where Vivec talks about like cutting aid to Israel, right,

2427
02:24:50,600 --> 02:24:56,200
Speaker 1: and obviously being the guy, we're not We're not pro

2428
02:24:56,360 --> 02:24:59,120
Speaker 1: the Israeli States. So I'm not against that from a

2429
02:24:59,240 --> 02:25:01,320
Speaker 1: certain point of view, but I'm not for the same

2430
02:25:01,360 --> 02:25:02,200
Speaker 1: reasons that Nick.

2431
02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:04,960
Speaker 5: Very different reasons.

2432
02:25:05,200 --> 02:25:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is worth noting that, like that's another

2433
02:25:09,040 --> 02:25:14,879
Speaker 1: reason why Nick likes this guy, right, So yeah, that's

2434
02:25:14,959 --> 02:25:16,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of the core of the vivic stuff I

2435
02:25:16,840 --> 02:25:18,360
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. The next thing to bring up

2436
02:25:18,400 --> 02:25:20,800
Speaker 1: is sort of how shit polling after this now, as

2437
02:25:20,840 --> 02:25:23,680
Speaker 1: we've noted, there's been like, you know, I found an

2438
02:25:23,760 --> 02:25:27,600
Speaker 1: MSN article that was a I believe it was actually

2439
02:25:27,640 --> 02:25:32,480
Speaker 1: just them republishing a Washington Examiner article. Lovey, it's really

2440
02:25:32,560 --> 02:25:34,959
Speaker 1: solid to hear that Washington Examiner is kind of a

2441
02:25:35,040 --> 02:25:38,840
Speaker 1: right wing rag. They analyzed five poles taken just before

2442
02:25:38,879 --> 02:25:42,000
Speaker 1: and after the debate. Trump saw a decrease in two

2443
02:25:42,120 --> 02:25:45,800
Speaker 1: of those poles and no change in the other three.

2444
02:25:46,040 --> 02:25:48,680
Speaker 1: This decrease, it's not insignificant that the two poles show

2445
02:25:48,760 --> 02:25:50,920
Speaker 1: him both bush him down something like six points, which

2446
02:25:50,959 --> 02:25:53,800
Speaker 1: is not nothing, right, Yeah, but that he's still up

2447
02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:57,640
Speaker 1: by around forty So it's also not like a seed change.

2448
02:25:57,760 --> 02:26:00,960
Speaker 1: You know, it does suggest a couple of things. One

2449
02:26:01,000 --> 02:26:04,080
Speaker 1: of the things that suggests is that there is value

2450
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:06,720
Speaker 1: to him, especially since it looks like he has lost

2451
02:26:07,360 --> 02:26:09,240
Speaker 1: some of his ability to message and some of his

2452
02:26:09,320 --> 02:26:11,720
Speaker 1: ability to rile people up because of the way social

2453
02:26:11,760 --> 02:26:15,040
Speaker 1: media has changed. He doesn't really use Twitter anymore. You know,

2454
02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:16,440
Speaker 1: he made a post recently, but.

2455
02:26:16,400 --> 02:26:19,000
Speaker 13: He made the first posting in years.

2456
02:26:19,240 --> 02:26:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, got Elon very excited. But he can't really and

2457
02:26:23,600 --> 02:26:25,920
Speaker 1: and he you know, he loves to rant on truth

2458
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:29,760
Speaker 1: social but it doesn't break through the same way stuff

2459
02:26:29,800 --> 02:26:33,240
Speaker 1: on Twitter did, and it's possible nothing on Twitter can

2460
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:35,879
Speaker 1: break through that way anymore because of how much changed

2461
02:26:35,879 --> 02:26:38,240
Speaker 1: it is. You know, it's not the same Twitter that

2462
02:26:38,280 --> 02:26:39,039
Speaker 1: he wrote.

2463
02:26:38,760 --> 02:26:41,560
Speaker 13: Absolutely, it's not the same Twitter it was in twenty fifteen,

2464
02:26:41,640 --> 02:26:43,600
Speaker 13: twenty six now not even the same Twitter it was

2465
02:26:43,600 --> 02:26:47,320
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty. Like, no, it is no then severely

2466
02:26:47,360 --> 02:26:51,080
Speaker 13: altered as as a platform and how it affects real

2467
02:26:51,200 --> 02:26:52,320
Speaker 13: so real world events.

2468
02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:52,879
Speaker 4: You know.

2469
02:26:52,920 --> 02:26:54,720
Speaker 1: I think the thing that you're seeing here is that

2470
02:26:54,800 --> 02:26:57,840
Speaker 1: he does have his core, which is, you know, a

2471
02:26:57,879 --> 02:27:00,000
Speaker 1: third or more of the GOP who will be right

2472
02:27:00,160 --> 02:27:03,200
Speaker 1: or die for the rest of their lives presumably, but

2473
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:05,960
Speaker 1: there is a softer chunk of support that is eroded

2474
02:27:06,040 --> 02:27:08,000
Speaker 1: by him the fact that he's not in the limelight,

2475
02:27:08,360 --> 02:27:10,680
Speaker 1: the fact that he wasn't up there, you know, slinging

2476
02:27:10,760 --> 02:27:14,440
Speaker 1: mud and arguing and you know, talking with these other

2477
02:27:14,480 --> 02:27:18,080
Speaker 1: candidates and so yeah, this is this is kind of

2478
02:27:18,080 --> 02:27:21,280
Speaker 1: a thing you could It's probably a mistake. I'm not

2479
02:27:21,320 --> 02:27:23,240
Speaker 1: saying a mistake from a point of view being good

2480
02:27:23,240 --> 02:27:25,000
Speaker 1: for the country, but a mistake in terms of like

2481
02:27:25,280 --> 02:27:28,400
Speaker 1: his campaign that he wasn't up there, which is kind

2482
02:27:28,440 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 1: of worth acknowledging and probably worth continuing to study, and

2483
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:35,400
Speaker 1: it may be it may have the effect of pushing

2484
02:27:35,480 --> 02:27:37,520
Speaker 1: him to take part in some of the other debates.

2485
02:27:37,560 --> 02:27:39,560
Speaker 1: DeSantis has said he thinks Trump will be at the

2486
02:27:39,600 --> 02:27:40,160
Speaker 1: third debate.

2487
02:27:40,480 --> 02:27:41,040
Speaker 2: Who knows.

2488
02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:46,160
Speaker 1: In terms of how everyone else did, DeSantis went up

2489
02:27:46,200 --> 02:27:48,400
Speaker 1: a little bit about a two point bump, which is,

2490
02:27:48,920 --> 02:27:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, not terrible, but it's also not significant, especially

2491
02:27:52,600 --> 02:27:55,480
Speaker 1: given the size of Trump's lead. It's not the kind

2492
02:27:55,480 --> 02:27:57,560
Speaker 1: of given the amount of cash burn he's been going through,

2493
02:27:57,560 --> 02:28:00,560
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of rays he needed to keep

2494
02:28:00,600 --> 02:28:01,520
Speaker 1: his campaign vibe.

2495
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:05,360
Speaker 13: It was what he did not do a performance that

2496
02:28:05,480 --> 02:28:07,240
Speaker 13: people were kind of expecting him to do, and I

2497
02:28:07,240 --> 02:28:09,280
Speaker 13: think everyone kind of assumed he would tried really hard

2498
02:28:09,280 --> 02:28:12,199
Speaker 13: to come out as the as like the obvious front runner,

2499
02:28:12,360 --> 02:28:14,879
Speaker 13: and he kind of flopped at the debate in at

2500
02:28:14,959 --> 02:28:18,960
Speaker 13: least in my opinion, he came off as very like muted,

2501
02:28:19,280 --> 02:28:21,680
Speaker 13: very like low key. He didn't he didn't really say

2502
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:23,640
Speaker 13: much one way or the other. He was so obsessed

2503
02:28:23,680 --> 02:28:26,560
Speaker 13: with with what other people like, trying to make sure

2504
02:28:26,560 --> 02:28:28,160
Speaker 13: that what he was saying was okay based on what

2505
02:28:28,200 --> 02:28:30,800
Speaker 13: everyone else was saying on stage. It was very weird.

2506
02:28:31,360 --> 02:28:34,440
Speaker 1: It was very weird and not the kind of energy

2507
02:28:34,879 --> 02:28:40,080
Speaker 1: that suggests I am building a political machine, right, yeah,

2508
02:28:40,160 --> 02:28:44,560
Speaker 1: and carry me into office. Pence went up by about

2509
02:28:44,600 --> 02:28:49,119
Speaker 1: four points to seven percent of voter support. Nicky Haley

2510
02:28:49,200 --> 02:28:52,120
Speaker 1: jumped about five points. And I would say I think

2511
02:28:52,600 --> 02:28:57,920
Speaker 1: DeSantis and Pence and probably Haley have are in here

2512
02:28:57,959 --> 02:29:01,800
Speaker 1: because they really think they can win. You know, there's

2513
02:29:01,840 --> 02:29:03,880
Speaker 1: a couple of those governors and stuff whose names I've

2514
02:29:03,879 --> 02:29:05,240
Speaker 1: I've already forgotten that.

2515
02:29:05,320 --> 02:29:06,160
Speaker 4: So nobody knows.

2516
02:29:07,360 --> 02:29:10,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, is like everyone knows Chris Christy is not going

2517
02:29:10,200 --> 02:29:11,800
Speaker 13: to be the president like we know, and he's not.

2518
02:29:12,080 --> 02:29:14,280
Speaker 1: He's not really He's running to get a TV show

2519
02:29:14,320 --> 02:29:17,879
Speaker 1: on MSN, right, maybe a book deal too. I guess

2520
02:29:17,920 --> 02:29:20,560
Speaker 1: it's possible that's part of Haley's ambition to I don't really,

2521
02:29:20,760 --> 02:29:22,280
Speaker 1: I don't have his greatest sense for what's going on.

2522
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:26,640
Speaker 13: Yeah, It's how they're all treating Trump is interesting because

2523
02:29:26,840 --> 02:29:29,840
Speaker 13: they're also all like kind of auditioning to be vice president,

2524
02:29:29,959 --> 02:29:32,280
Speaker 13: but some of them don't want that job because they're

2525
02:29:32,320 --> 02:29:34,560
Speaker 13: they're being like very like like anti Trump. On stage,

2526
02:29:34,720 --> 02:29:37,800
Speaker 13: the most most people were soft to Trump.

2527
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:42,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think Vivek was both auditioning for like

2528
02:29:42,680 --> 02:29:45,800
Speaker 1: the future of his political I don't think he reasonably

2529
02:29:45,840 --> 02:29:48,680
Speaker 1: expects to be president this election. I think he may

2530
02:29:48,720 --> 02:29:50,240
Speaker 1: think he can win that in the future. And I

2531
02:29:50,240 --> 02:29:51,959
Speaker 1: think he sees this as look, I'm young, and I'm

2532
02:29:51,959 --> 02:29:54,360
Speaker 1: going to start building and he and if that's the case,

2533
02:29:54,400 --> 02:29:56,080
Speaker 1: then he has done the first thing that he would

2534
02:29:56,080 --> 02:29:58,039
Speaker 1: need to do to be a real candidate one day,

2535
02:29:58,080 --> 02:30:00,480
Speaker 1: which is make a national name for him self as

2536
02:30:00,520 --> 02:30:03,560
Speaker 1: a guy in politics. I think he may be auditioning

2537
02:30:03,680 --> 02:30:07,920
Speaker 1: for vice president. And Trump recently commented like, yeah, you know,

2538
02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:10,000
Speaker 1: I'm not against the idea necessarily.

2539
02:30:10,440 --> 02:30:13,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, he said he was like impressed with his performance

2540
02:30:13,080 --> 02:30:16,160
Speaker 13: at the debaters or something along those lines.

2541
02:30:16,680 --> 02:30:17,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2542
02:30:17,200 --> 02:30:21,760
Speaker 13: And I mean the immediate reaction from almost almost every

2543
02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:26,720
Speaker 13: kind of big like influential, millennial gen x kind of

2544
02:30:26,800 --> 02:30:29,879
Speaker 13: right wing content creator person. They were all saying that

2545
02:30:30,360 --> 02:30:33,280
Speaker 13: the VEC like very clearly won. Yeah, like all of

2546
02:30:33,400 --> 02:30:35,520
Speaker 13: all of all of the Daily Wire people were very

2547
02:30:35,680 --> 02:30:39,119
Speaker 13: we're very pro the VEC and kind of riding that train.

2548
02:30:39,560 --> 02:30:39,640
Speaker 6: Ye.

2549
02:30:40,480 --> 02:30:45,199
Speaker 13: Musk recently, even even even even before the debate, switched

2550
02:30:45,280 --> 02:30:49,200
Speaker 13: sides from from being the Dysantis guy to being the guy.

2551
02:30:50,959 --> 02:30:53,160
Speaker 13: So it was a lot of a lot of like

2552
02:30:53,640 --> 02:30:57,440
Speaker 13: the intellectual dark right type type stuff of like like

2553
02:30:57,600 --> 02:31:02,280
Speaker 13: online tech conservative. They were all very quick to jump

2554
02:31:02,320 --> 02:31:04,920
Speaker 13: on the yeah, the X train, and based on his

2555
02:31:05,000 --> 02:31:08,680
Speaker 13: performance at the debate, they were happy with his overall

2556
02:31:09,320 --> 02:31:10,959
Speaker 13: demeanor and messaging.

2557
02:31:11,160 --> 02:31:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah and.

2558
02:31:16,879 --> 02:31:17,199
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2559
02:31:17,240 --> 02:31:20,640
Speaker 1: So you know, again, as it kind of stands, has

2560
02:31:20,680 --> 02:31:24,080
Speaker 1: anything changed, Well, yes and no, Like the overall sweep

2561
02:31:24,120 --> 02:31:27,800
Speaker 1: of the primary, Donald Trump is so far ahead that

2562
02:31:27,879 --> 02:31:31,920
Speaker 1: it does seem unlikely that he's going to lose. But well,

2563
02:31:32,040 --> 02:31:34,279
Speaker 1: we've also seen it's possible for him to bleed support

2564
02:31:34,360 --> 02:31:37,920
Speaker 1: and if you remember far back to twenty fifteen, twenty

2565
02:31:37,959 --> 02:31:40,440
Speaker 1: sixteen when he was in these debates with the other

2566
02:31:40,440 --> 02:31:44,000
Speaker 1: Republican candidates, he didn't really bleed support, like he was

2567
02:31:44,360 --> 02:31:48,760
Speaker 1: very consistently moving forward. So that is interesting. That does

2568
02:31:48,800 --> 02:31:57,760
Speaker 1: suggest some things about how the situation has changed. And yeah,

2569
02:31:57,840 --> 02:32:01,400
Speaker 1: it's also interesting you know, Poles kind of show that

2570
02:32:02,360 --> 02:32:05,880
Speaker 1: voters did. And maybe one of the reasons why Vivik's

2571
02:32:05,879 --> 02:32:10,400
Speaker 1: performance didn't boost his campaign overall is that he entered

2572
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:13,240
Speaker 1: into it with the highest expectations of any of the

2573
02:32:13,280 --> 02:32:17,560
Speaker 1: debaters among like Republican voters. Probably this is because you know,

2574
02:32:17,640 --> 02:32:19,480
Speaker 1: in the speeches and stuff he's been given before. He's

2575
02:32:19,520 --> 02:32:22,120
Speaker 1: a debate guy, like that's obvious about him anytime you

2576
02:32:22,160 --> 02:32:25,320
Speaker 1: hear him talk. So I think people weren't expecting him

2577
02:32:25,400 --> 02:32:27,720
Speaker 1: to do well, and so maybe it didn't. You know,

2578
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:30,560
Speaker 1: if people are expecting you to perform well and then

2579
02:32:30,600 --> 02:32:33,480
Speaker 1: you win, it's not as impressive as a you know,

2580
02:32:33,480 --> 02:32:35,720
Speaker 1: if you kind of come come out or left field there.

2581
02:32:35,720 --> 02:32:38,760
Speaker 1: So maybe that's part of why he's not seeing stuff.

2582
02:32:39,440 --> 02:32:41,040
Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting to me is the

2583
02:32:41,400 --> 02:32:43,640
Speaker 1: stuff that was talked about at the debate compared to

2584
02:32:43,840 --> 02:32:49,680
Speaker 1: what actually Republican voters care about. The thing that came

2585
02:32:49,760 --> 02:32:52,200
Speaker 1: up first in the debate is the thing that is

2586
02:32:52,280 --> 02:32:55,360
Speaker 1: number one, getting inflation or costs under control. Obvious that

2587
02:32:55,360 --> 02:32:57,400
Speaker 1: that's going to be top of the list for a

2588
02:32:57,440 --> 02:33:02,080
Speaker 1: lot of voters. Forty four percent of Republicans consider controlling

2589
02:33:02,120 --> 02:33:06,080
Speaker 1: immigration to be a primary concern, which did come up

2590
02:33:06,200 --> 02:33:08,560
Speaker 1: a bit. One of the things that pissed off a

2591
02:33:08,600 --> 02:33:10,280
Speaker 1: lot of the Daily Wire crew is the fact that

2592
02:33:10,320 --> 02:33:13,600
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a lot of talk about wokeness or

2593
02:33:13,600 --> 02:33:17,039
Speaker 1: trans people during the debate, because that kind of shit

2594
02:33:17,240 --> 02:33:20,560
Speaker 1: is not like fighting liberalism and wokeness and President Biden

2595
02:33:20,600 --> 02:33:24,320
Speaker 1: like it all gets kind of like lumped together about

2596
02:33:24,320 --> 02:33:27,000
Speaker 1: a third, you know, of the electorate. That's their their

2597
02:33:27,040 --> 02:33:29,920
Speaker 1: big concern among Republicans.

2598
02:33:30,320 --> 02:33:33,880
Speaker 13: It's primary for it. It's primarily for like online clicks

2599
02:33:33,920 --> 02:33:37,000
Speaker 13: and for driving engagement on whatever Facebook thing you want

2600
02:33:37,000 --> 02:33:39,640
Speaker 13: to do to harass the school board. It is not

2601
02:33:39,959 --> 02:33:44,320
Speaker 13: the uh, the prime focus of the presidential.

2602
02:33:44,480 --> 02:33:47,360
Speaker 1: Yes, and like the issues with trans people and stuff

2603
02:33:47,400 --> 02:33:49,879
Speaker 1: on its own does not come up here as like

2604
02:33:49,920 --> 02:33:53,960
Speaker 1: a major It's nobody's primary concern among Republican voters. Like

2605
02:33:54,000 --> 02:33:57,160
Speaker 1: it's these weirdo freaks on the internet. Which isn't to

2606
02:33:57,200 --> 02:34:00,240
Speaker 1: say that like they have good attitudes towards that, but like, yeah,

2607
02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:01,520
Speaker 1: it makes sense that that's not going to be what

2608
02:34:01,600 --> 02:34:03,840
Speaker 1: you put front and center in the debate. One thing

2609
02:34:03,920 --> 02:34:07,400
Speaker 1: that's interesting to me is that both election security and

2610
02:34:07,440 --> 02:34:10,520
Speaker 1: limiting abortion, which are huge issues and we're big parts

2611
02:34:10,560 --> 02:34:14,240
Speaker 1: of the debate, are very much minor side show issues

2612
02:34:14,280 --> 02:34:17,880
Speaker 1: for voters. About ten percent of voters consider of Republican

2613
02:34:18,000 --> 02:34:22,040
Speaker 1: voters consider election integrity their primary concern. About six percent

2614
02:34:22,520 --> 02:34:27,000
Speaker 1: considerate a limiting abortion a top priority, which is teeny right,

2615
02:34:27,080 --> 02:34:29,160
Speaker 1: Like it's not a popular thing. They just have to

2616
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:31,640
Speaker 1: because of that hardcore of the base. They have to

2617
02:34:31,680 --> 02:34:32,400
Speaker 1: signal for it.

2618
02:34:32,879 --> 02:34:36,800
Speaker 13: The Veck was the only first on stage to claim

2619
02:34:36,879 --> 02:34:38,880
Speaker 13: that climate change is not real.

2620
02:34:39,320 --> 02:34:43,279
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, which was interesting, especially as this hurricane

2621
02:34:43,520 --> 02:34:49,000
Speaker 1: batters Florida. And that's deeply negative too, right, the complete

2622
02:34:49,000 --> 02:34:52,400
Speaker 1: denial of reality. It doesn't take long, and Vivek did

2623
02:34:52,440 --> 02:34:55,600
Speaker 1: not do this, but it's not a long journey to

2624
02:34:55,800 --> 02:34:59,040
Speaker 1: go from I don't believe climate change is real to

2625
02:35:00,160 --> 02:35:02,960
Speaker 1: I think those fires were started with lasers from space,

2626
02:35:03,200 --> 02:35:07,720
Speaker 1: you know, and they're and versions of that, right, which

2627
02:35:07,760 --> 02:35:10,920
Speaker 1: is deeply concerning to me. But uh yeah, that's uh,

2628
02:35:11,000 --> 02:35:14,480
Speaker 1: that's you know, the Republican debate and and Vivek Ramaswami

2629
02:35:14,560 --> 02:35:17,720
Speaker 1: that's kind of uh are our thinking on him? As

2630
02:35:17,760 --> 02:35:23,520
Speaker 1: he embraces Nick Fuintes, thought, boy, I don't love saying that.

2631
02:35:23,800 --> 02:35:27,160
Speaker 13: Yeah no, But like my main my my main takeaway

2632
02:35:27,160 --> 02:35:32,240
Speaker 13: from this debate was that this was based on the performance.

2633
02:35:33,280 --> 02:35:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna cut out, have danil cut off from

2634
02:35:35,360 --> 02:35:37,840
Speaker 1: that my main performance. My main opinion was this was

2635
02:35:37,920 --> 02:35:42,840
Speaker 1: based and then yeah, there we go. Garrison's debate analysis,

2636
02:35:42,959 --> 02:35:45,240
Speaker 1: thank you.

2637
02:35:44,480 --> 02:35:51,320
Speaker 13: Please, based on the VEX performance was that this really

2638
02:35:51,440 --> 02:35:53,720
Speaker 13: was like the first glimpse of the types of like

2639
02:35:53,800 --> 02:35:57,280
Speaker 13: long term results of the al Right era in like

2640
02:35:57,400 --> 02:36:00,680
Speaker 13: actual like organized politics. Yes, it's it's, it's it is.

2641
02:36:00,800 --> 02:36:02,480
Speaker 13: It is. It is our first peek at like this

2642
02:36:02,640 --> 02:36:06,920
Speaker 13: upcoming online conservative wave of zoomers and millennials who are

2643
02:36:06,920 --> 02:36:09,320
Speaker 13: you know, between my age and Robert's age, who are

2644
02:36:09,320 --> 02:36:11,959
Speaker 13: gonna be running for office in the next ten years,

2645
02:36:11,959 --> 02:36:16,280
Speaker 13: who were heavily influenced by the online alright era. And

2646
02:36:16,320 --> 02:36:18,320
Speaker 13: that's very worrying. I mean, we saw a little bit

2647
02:36:18,360 --> 02:36:23,520
Speaker 13: of that with DeSantis' campaign staff sharing videos, videos that

2648
02:36:23,560 --> 02:36:26,360
Speaker 13: were approved by like a lot of people in his staff.

2649
02:36:26,440 --> 02:36:28,520
Speaker 13: It wasn't it wasn't just one guy. We we have

2650
02:36:28,600 --> 02:36:30,600
Speaker 13: we have since found out that those videos were like

2651
02:36:30,680 --> 02:36:33,840
Speaker 13: approved like in a in a in like a specific

2652
02:36:33,879 --> 02:36:36,879
Speaker 13: like propaganda like chat that these people had I think

2653
02:36:37,120 --> 02:36:40,160
Speaker 13: I think on signal. Yeah, So like it is, it is.

2654
02:36:40,240 --> 02:36:42,400
Speaker 13: It is part of like this this this wave that

2655
02:36:42,400 --> 02:36:46,920
Speaker 13: we're just starting to see glimpses of here. And it's

2656
02:36:46,959 --> 02:36:50,680
Speaker 13: not great, no, I you know it it it It

2657
02:36:50,840 --> 02:36:52,800
Speaker 13: remains to be seen like if these things will actually

2658
02:36:52,840 --> 02:36:55,720
Speaker 13: like pan out in elections, though, I mean, like it

2659
02:36:55,959 --> 02:36:58,440
Speaker 13: doesn't seem like the vac is gonna do very well

2660
02:36:58,520 --> 02:37:02,840
Speaker 13: as an actual presidential candidate during this race. Previously, when

2661
02:37:02,879 --> 02:37:05,280
Speaker 13: when when when Republicans have kind of ran on these

2662
02:37:05,520 --> 02:37:08,080
Speaker 13: very kind of online topics, like back in the twenty

2663
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:11,960
Speaker 13: twenty two midterms, it it failed to give them kind

2664
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:16,280
Speaker 13: of yeah, the return on investment. So it's we'll still

2665
02:37:16,360 --> 02:37:19,960
Speaker 13: kind of see how how kind of viable this strategy is.

2666
02:37:20,440 --> 02:37:23,000
Speaker 13: But I mean, we're only going to have more and

2667
02:37:23,040 --> 02:37:26,640
Speaker 13: more zoomers and millennials running for office. Like It's yeah,

2668
02:37:26,760 --> 02:37:30,360
Speaker 13: as we saw today, Mitch McConnell's literally disintegrated before our

2669
02:37:30,480 --> 02:37:33,560
Speaker 13: very eyes. Yes, and more and more of these kind

2670
02:37:33,560 --> 02:37:37,000
Speaker 13: of old guard of neocons or Trump guys are going

2671
02:37:37,040 --> 02:37:39,800
Speaker 13: to age out in the next ten years, twenty years,

2672
02:37:40,280 --> 02:37:42,760
Speaker 13: and you know it's it's gonna we are. We are

2673
02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:45,800
Speaker 13: really going to see this new wave of politicians come in.

2674
02:37:46,400 --> 02:37:50,760
Speaker 13: It is interesting how much of jen X just has

2675
02:37:50,879 --> 02:37:54,200
Speaker 13: not been a has not been a generation that occupies office.

2676
02:37:55,160 --> 02:37:57,920
Speaker 1: No, well again, Garrison, you have not watched enough Mike

2677
02:37:58,040 --> 02:38:00,600
Speaker 1: Judge cartoons, but that was made very clear in the

2678
02:38:00,640 --> 02:38:02,800
Speaker 1: cartoon Daria.

2679
02:38:02,920 --> 02:38:03,720
Speaker 13: Yes, that is true.

2680
02:38:03,840 --> 02:38:07,600
Speaker 1: Yes, so I I think so I kind of want

2681
02:38:07,640 --> 02:38:09,840
Speaker 1: to end I think the nope that was not Mike Judge,

2682
02:38:09,879 --> 02:38:10,879
Speaker 1: What what was I thinking?

2683
02:38:10,920 --> 02:38:11,879
Speaker 5: Why did I say.

2684
02:38:11,720 --> 02:38:14,480
Speaker 1: That I'm an I I'm a I'm a fool? Oh wait,

2685
02:38:14,720 --> 02:38:16,800
Speaker 1: because it's a spin off of Beavis and Budded. Yes,

2686
02:38:16,920 --> 02:38:20,920
Speaker 1: that's why. Okay, all right, I solved that mystery, Thank God.

2687
02:38:21,120 --> 02:38:23,520
Speaker 1: Now the mystery I haven't solved. And and the thing

2688
02:38:23,560 --> 02:38:25,360
Speaker 1: I want to bring you to is, like we've said,

2689
02:38:25,400 --> 02:38:26,959
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think ire of us think his

2690
02:38:27,400 --> 02:38:32,920
Speaker 1: presidential campaign has electoral shot. Uh, but what about him

2691
02:38:32,959 --> 02:38:34,840
Speaker 1: is VP? Do you think that's that's likely?

2692
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:36,320
Speaker 4: Personally?

2693
02:38:37,400 --> 02:38:40,199
Speaker 13: There there's I mean, there's certainly a chance. Uh, there's

2694
02:38:40,200 --> 02:38:42,920
Speaker 13: a chance. Trumps indicated that that that there's a chance.

2695
02:38:43,240 --> 02:38:46,160
Speaker 13: I believe Trump said he's a very very very intelligent person.

2696
02:38:46,240 --> 02:38:49,320
Speaker 13: He's got good energy, and he could uh and he

2697
02:38:49,400 --> 02:38:54,000
Speaker 13: could be some form of something great, great Trumpian dialogue.

2698
02:38:54,440 --> 02:38:57,160
Speaker 13: I'll tell you, I think he'd be very good as

2699
02:38:57,640 --> 02:38:58,440
Speaker 13: as vice president.

2700
02:38:58,560 --> 02:39:02,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's which you know, I think the fact

2701
02:39:02,160 --> 02:39:05,080
Speaker 1: that his his his overall numbers aren't trending up might

2702
02:39:05,160 --> 02:39:08,320
Speaker 1: hurt him in that although maybe it'll make Trump feel

2703
02:39:08,320 --> 02:39:11,320
Speaker 1: more secure that he's not going to like take anything

2704
02:39:11,400 --> 02:39:14,560
Speaker 1: from him, you know, although maybe the fact that he

2705
02:39:14,680 --> 02:39:18,280
Speaker 1: has gone so viral. It would would upset Trump because

2706
02:39:18,320 --> 02:39:20,640
Speaker 1: he kind of seems to have preferred having a non

2707
02:39:20,800 --> 02:39:22,040
Speaker 1: entity as his VP.

2708
02:39:23,000 --> 02:39:23,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2709
02:39:23,240 --> 02:39:26,720
Speaker 5: I don't know, because it is like, Yeah.

2710
02:39:26,440 --> 02:39:28,440
Speaker 13: My previous prediction was that he would try to get

2711
02:39:28,440 --> 02:39:31,720
Speaker 13: herschel Walker. That maybe kind of out of date. Now, Yeah,

2712
02:39:31,720 --> 02:39:34,560
Speaker 13: that is certainly another one of these guys that that

2713
02:39:34,600 --> 02:39:36,680
Speaker 13: could be in line. Certainly out of out of everyone

2714
02:39:36,760 --> 02:39:39,360
Speaker 13: else on the debate stage, he was, Yeah, I think

2715
02:39:39,400 --> 02:39:41,879
Speaker 13: the most the most Trumpian and the most like Trump

2716
02:39:41,959 --> 02:39:47,120
Speaker 13: friendly guy. Yeah. The one other election kind of restriction

2717
02:39:47,360 --> 02:39:49,720
Speaker 13: that he proposed that we have yet to mention is

2718
02:39:49,760 --> 02:39:54,000
Speaker 13: to raise the voting age to twenty five Yes, on

2719
02:39:54,320 --> 02:39:59,160
Speaker 13: top of having those Civics tests. But yeah, I mean

2720
02:39:59,160 --> 02:40:02,280
Speaker 13: I I think it's possible, but it's it's a little

2721
02:40:02,280 --> 02:40:03,640
Speaker 13: too far out to say for sure.

2722
02:40:04,200 --> 02:40:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well that is Uh, I think

2723
02:40:08,920 --> 02:40:11,320
Speaker 1: where we're gonna we're gonna bring her to an end

2724
02:40:11,440 --> 02:40:14,920
Speaker 1: for the night. Uh yeah, this has been it could

2725
02:40:14,959 --> 02:40:20,080
Speaker 1: happen here until we could happen it certainly could Uh

2726
02:40:20,120 --> 02:40:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, stay, uh did people give you a little concerned? Hey,

2727
02:40:29,080 --> 02:40:32,200
Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week. From

2728
02:40:32,240 --> 02:40:33,920
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the universe.

2729
02:40:34,520 --> 02:40:37,000
Speaker 5: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

2730
02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:39,800
Speaker 6: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

2731
02:40:39,800 --> 02:40:42,039
Speaker 6: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

2732
02:40:42,080 --> 02:40:45,599
Speaker 6: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

2733
02:40:45,879 --> 02:40:48,000
Speaker 6: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

2734
02:40:48,080 --> 02:40:52,119
Speaker 6: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.