WEBVTT - Charisma w/ Jeff Kober

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<v Speaker 1>Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

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<v Speaker 2>We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the

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<v Speaker 2>vicious felonies.

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<v Speaker 3>These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Lisa, Hello, my name is Kara. Hello.

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<v Speaker 1>And every week we recap an episode of Law and

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<v Speaker 1>Order SVU. We tell you the true crime that it

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<v Speaker 1>was based on, and then we talk to someone from

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<v Speaker 1>the episode. And today's no different. We've got somebody great

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<v Speaker 1>and Lisa, Now we just chatterrow, what's up with you?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>What if one day we're like in today's guests not

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<v Speaker 2>that good, but we couldn't find anyone better. So enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>this dick hole. I have a question for you and

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<v Speaker 2>the listeners. I don't know what's up. So my friend's

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<v Speaker 2>birthdays coming up. So I went on our street, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>our main our main street of stores and did a

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<v Speaker 2>little circle, did a little you know, a little gift

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<v Speaker 2>bag from all our favorite stores gift and so we're

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<v Speaker 2>at daughter and while the employee, not the owner, is

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<v Speaker 2>like packaging all the gifts I got and like making

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<v Speaker 2>them really cute, like she made everything very cute, and

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<v Speaker 2>she's talking about the store across the street, crush Art things.

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<v Speaker 2>She goes, yeah, I buy paints there, and I go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>do you love to paint? And the energy shifted in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that I had asked her like can I

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<v Speaker 2>touch her pussy? Like it really like all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>she just stared at me and got quiet and weird.

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<v Speaker 2>And I looked at Michael and I was like, was

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<v Speaker 2>that a weird question? I'm sorry, and she goes, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Really nice of you.

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<v Speaker 2>And then that was that, and then it just became

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<v Speaker 2>dead silence for like two minutes, and then we picked

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<v Speaker 2>back up and we ended on a good note. But

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't understand what all I said was do

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<v Speaker 2>you love to paint? And I don't know what I

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<v Speaker 2>did to cause such because then when we left, I go,

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<v Speaker 2>that was weird, right, and he goes, that was I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what was going on. She fully shut down, like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't understand why I was so I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>why I was inappropriate, but I'm obviously in my head

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<v Speaker 2>about it.

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<v Speaker 3>He said that maybe like she.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't have that much of personal conversations like that's not personal.

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<v Speaker 2>She said she bought paint. I asked if she loves

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<v Speaker 2>the paint. We were me, our friend Michael, and the employee.

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<v Speaker 2>We were all just small chatting.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a tiny neighbor not a tiny neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 3>But they're no, I always chat to the people in

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<v Speaker 3>that store.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm there all that's there's only like five stores

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<v Speaker 2>next to my house and that's where everything comes from now.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, the employee just fully shut down and became

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<v Speaker 2>so weird, and I just like didn't know if I

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<v Speaker 2>did something wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think you did anything wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's so bizarre.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Michael was like, you know, you shut down and

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<v Speaker 2>got very bashful. I go, yeah, because I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>what I did. I started like looking at my shoes.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, okay, it's not like you. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not like you were like, oh you do threesomes? Like yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like a full that's so that's really high.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was like, what have I done? It was weird.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if you said it like you said it genuinely,

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<v Speaker 1>but maybe she read it as sarcastic in a weird

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<v Speaker 1>way like, oh do you love to paint?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>You do?

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<v Speaker 1>Like maybe you know what I mean? Like what if

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<v Speaker 1>she read it that way, like completely erroneously. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>you weren't doing that, but like and then she was like, okay, bitch,

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<v Speaker 1>I was just trying to tell you that that's where

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<v Speaker 1>I buy paint, Like I don't know, That's the only

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<v Speaker 1>thing I can think of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I just needed something that it wasn't like me being

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<v Speaker 2>the worst social person in the world. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>what have I done at my favorite store? But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe she's thought it was disingenuous.

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<v Speaker 3>I just try not to.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like asking me like what do you do

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<v Speaker 2>for money or for a living? Like I like the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of not having a person be defined by their

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<v Speaker 2>job type of thing, And so I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, you're trying to paint or like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you pay? Like I didn't want so either.

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<v Speaker 2>Thought the way to talk about painting in a positive

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<v Speaker 2>way was like, oh, you enjoy painting? Yeah, And she

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<v Speaker 2>was like and then for two minutes we sat in silence,

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<v Speaker 2>but then she said, no, it's a.

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<v Speaker 3>Nice question, it's not weird.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, the why have you ruined my mental stability

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<v Speaker 2>now for days.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe you were making her really.

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<v Speaker 1>Like look inward and be like, I do like to paint,

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<v Speaker 1>and instead I'm just packing up your chochkeys for your

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<v Speaker 1>friend's birthday at this retail job, and I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to paint, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah they were chochkeys. That's funny. Well you know what

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, so much choch keys for her birthday?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh are you forty? Here's forty choch keys. Oh that's

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<v Speaker 1>like for my sixteenth birthday. My mom got me sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>gift certificate and I like loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I love that for you, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's a great idea and I just love buying gifts.

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<v Speaker 2>But then you know when you go to buy someone

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<v Speaker 2>at present and then you spend more money on yourself

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<v Speaker 2>at the store.

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<v Speaker 3>I did that too, you Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That store is dangerous for that for sure, because I

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<v Speaker 1>remember we went there to buy a friend a birthday

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<v Speaker 1>present and you were trying on clothes.

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<v Speaker 3>But the clothes are never my style.

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<v Speaker 2>I will never be a girl wearing clogs and like

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<v Speaker 2>a flufy cotton linen dress that's in all way.

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<v Speaker 3>But I try every time I'm in.

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<v Speaker 2>There, I'm like I will wear a pillowy onesie and

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<v Speaker 2>these fucking clogs from Sweden.

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<v Speaker 3>But what else is going on? Well, you have you

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<v Speaker 3>have an insane story. I have an insane story.

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<v Speaker 1>I really want to tell you on the podcast because

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<v Speaker 1>I just feel like our listeners would be into this.

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<v Speaker 2>Well I've heard it now three times and every time

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<v Speaker 2>it gets more insane, not.

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<v Speaker 3>Like it doesn't, it doesn't have more.

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<v Speaker 2>It becomes more like whoa the earth, like the universe

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<v Speaker 2>is nuts?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so okay, so let me tell you guys what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know some of you may have noticed.

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<v Speaker 1>A couple of weeks ago, I guest hosted My Favorite

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<v Speaker 1>Murder and this I get this DM the day that

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<v Speaker 1>that comes out from this guy who's like, hey, this

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<v Speaker 1>is crazy, but I just heard you on My Favorite Murder.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I went to my mailbox and I pulled

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<v Speaker 1>out this and he sends a photo of a letter

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<v Speaker 1>from like the ACLU or something addressed to me and

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<v Speaker 1>my husband at our old address in West Hollywood, because

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<v Speaker 1>this guy lives in our old apartment, which I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>that's crazy to hear me on a podcast. Go check

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<v Speaker 1>your mail and find out I used to live in

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<v Speaker 1>your apartment, Like already, that's like a weird, serendipitous, crazy thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I look at his bio. This guy, we've

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<v Speaker 1>got friends in common. He's a writer, like a TV writer.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm like, okay, I feel cool talking to this guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Like this isn't like a full stranger, right. So we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking and he's telling we're talking about the building. And

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<v Speaker 1>I had a notoriously bonkers building manager at my old building,

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<v Speaker 1>just like harmless sponkers, just like very la lady that

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<v Speaker 1>I've like, I've always noticed like she was very pretty

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<v Speaker 1>and had like a really great body, even though she

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<v Speaker 1>was sixty years old, and I was always like, I

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<v Speaker 1>bet she came out here to be an actress and

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't work out. Now she's like a building manager

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<v Speaker 1>who drives a BMW and like I just thought, she

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<v Speaker 1>has like a very like a weird backstory. And she

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<v Speaker 1>smoked tons of weed but was also the most uptight

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<v Speaker 1>person you've ever talked to, even though she would always

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<v Speaker 1>like love to smoke weed and she was definitely nutty.

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<v Speaker 1>She would talk shit to me about other tenants in

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<v Speaker 1>the building and I'd be like, I don't care. And

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<v Speaker 1>so he told me. He goes, he said to me

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<v Speaker 1>on this h while we're dming, he goes, how soon

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<v Speaker 1>did I'll call her Sandra? How soon did Sandra tell

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<v Speaker 1>you about her mom? And I go, what, like, she

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<v Speaker 1>told me a lot of crazy shit, but she never

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned her mom to me, and he goes, girl in

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<v Speaker 1>capital letters, and then he sends me three voice memos. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so I immediately did into these voice memos, and he

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<v Speaker 1>tells me this whole story about how when he came

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<v Speaker 1>to sign his lease, she started talking shit to him

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<v Speaker 1>about a current tenant, you know, very her, very her vibe,

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<v Speaker 1>and was talking about a tenant shooting porn in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the building and in the sorry in his room

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<v Speaker 1>in his apartment. And he was kind of like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not into talking shit about that. I don't care if

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<v Speaker 1>that this tenant was shooting porn, Like that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 1>anything to me, Like that's sex, work, is work, whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>And Sandra could tell that he was not into the gossip,

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<v Speaker 1>and so she was like, well, I'm no prude or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I live through the seventies, I've done heroin.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom was murdered by John Holmes, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>like what the fuck. John Holmes is the porn star

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<v Speaker 1>that Boogie Knights was based on, And what she's talking

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<v Speaker 1>about are the Wonderland Murders, which are a notorious, horrifically

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<v Speaker 1>violent murders that happened in Los Angeles between kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like warring groups of drug dealers and very LA type,

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<v Speaker 1>very seventies LA types of people. This happened in very

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<v Speaker 1>early eighties. But do yourself a favor in google the

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<v Speaker 1>Wonderland Murders. It is fascinating. And my old building manager's mother.

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<v Speaker 3>Was murdered as part of it.

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<v Speaker 1>I had no idea, and I knew this woman for years,

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<v Speaker 1>still have her phone number. I don't think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>way I can bring it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, but and that you found out through a letter

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<v Speaker 2>that arrived the day this man listened to your guest

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<v Speaker 2>host episode of a podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so insane, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just magical, And I feel bad for people who

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<v Speaker 2>don't see the magic in wonder and coincidences of the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously it's fucked up to call this like murder a

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<v Speaker 2>magic thing, but yeah, to be connected in these stories

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<v Speaker 2>and how we all are bound together as pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>Beautiful, really fully informs to me how Sandra was. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>like the way she was in, like her life, Like

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<v Speaker 1>she's a lifelong Angelino probably who had this like mother

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<v Speaker 1>who was drug addicted and murdered, and like it's just

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<v Speaker 1>wild to me, like the whole thing. Oh, I wish,

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<v Speaker 1>I wish there was a way I could have spoken

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<v Speaker 1>to her about it at the time, because actually I

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<v Speaker 1>think that conversation would have been very unomfortable because she's

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<v Speaker 1>very intense.

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<v Speaker 3>But maybe we could have smoked weed and had some fun.

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<v Speaker 3>Who knows. Do you think you're gonna ever hang out

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<v Speaker 3>with this neighbor? You know what?

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<v Speaker 1>I literally think he seems really cool and cute and gay.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was like, next time I go to West

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<v Speaker 1>Hollywood to like watch drag Race, I might just message

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<v Speaker 1>him and be like, want to meet up and talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>Sandra during commercial?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe we could do the worst thing and try to

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<v Speaker 2>hook up this random gay man with your high school

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<v Speaker 2>friend friend and be like, well, we know two gays

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<v Speaker 2>in West Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe you like each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this guy is Jed's type, Okay, so maybe I

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<v Speaker 1>will maybe I will set them up.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if this guy, this guy could

0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:55.360
<v Speaker 2>have a husband for.

0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.920
<v Speaker 3>All I know, Like, I mean, I have no idea.

0:10:58.080 --> 0:10:59.439
<v Speaker 3>We can assume it might be open.

0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:04.400
<v Speaker 1>No, anyway, I know I took up a lot of

0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Today's than that is amazing.

0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean I took up I took up ten minutes

0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.880
<v Speaker 2>with a curb your enthusiasm boring story. So I think

0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.040
<v Speaker 2>a serendipitous murder connection is better than me being like,

0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.880
<v Speaker 2>am I a free? Am I a social freak? What

0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.800
<v Speaker 2>am I doing wrong? But I yeah, she became so uncomfortable.

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:27.360
<v Speaker 3>But hey, I love your curb moments. Should we jump

0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:28.720
<v Speaker 3>into today's app? What do you think?

0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a real laugh riot a barn Burner laughs

0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.280
<v Speaker 2>a minute, just like a party episode of SVU.

0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:36.800
<v Speaker 3>They actually all go to Cancun.

0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.040
<v Speaker 2>It's like, I don't know why we'd waited so long

0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:41.199
<v Speaker 2>to do the Cancun.

0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it is weird. All inclusive resort. Oh my god.

0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.960
<v Speaker 2>I hope this podcast becomes so popular we can do

0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.760
<v Speaker 2>an all inclusive resort party.

0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh my show festival. A cruise.

0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 1>You guys, tell your friends we need to do a

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:57.959
<v Speaker 1>that's messed up cruise. I would never go on a cruise.

0:11:57.960 --> 0:11:59.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry. I'm anti cruise but I would go on

0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a that was just people that like SVU.

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 3>Why are you.

0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Dow, Why are you demoting it? We both don't like cruises.

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.440
<v Speaker 2>We don't like what they do for the environment. I

0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.599
<v Speaker 2>bring up doing an all inclusive resort and you go, no,

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:10.840
<v Speaker 2>let's do the thing we both hate.

0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh oh sorry.

0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.080
<v Speaker 2>The only reason I said it is because because different

0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.640
<v Speaker 2>shows and podcasts do cruises.

0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we're gonna do it at a resort.

0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.400
<v Speaker 1>You're right, you're right, We're gonna break them old. You're right,

0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 1>you're right, Lisa, I'm a fucking follower. I was just like, well,

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.000
<v Speaker 1>we have to do the thing that other people have done.

0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 1>You're right, We're doing a fucking all inclusive you gotta

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.280
<v Speaker 1>fly there and then you're part of the magic and

0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 1>we all just party in where we go in kN

0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 1>Kun to Cancun.

0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, what isn't there like a saying like see

0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.079
<v Speaker 2>you in Italy or something?

0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.679
<v Speaker 3>Is that not the thang you cheers and say something

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:44.959
<v Speaker 3>like see you in Italy?

0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Is that not a saying like a cheers you do

0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.960
<v Speaker 2>like when somebody will see you on the flip side, whatever,

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 2>We'll see you guys in Mexico.

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 3>If we've become popular.

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Enough, I'm raising a glass and saying, see you all

0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.280
<v Speaker 2>in Mexico.

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.439
<v Speaker 3>Let's talk charisma.

0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.080
<v Speaker 1>You sickos asked for it and we are delivering It.

0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Is season six, episode seven, one of the scariest episodes.

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 3>Let's get into it.

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.240
<v Speaker 1>We open on an emergency room where Benson and a

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.600
<v Speaker 1>doctor are engaging in a classic walk and talk and

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Benson has sort of a short, short, mid length. Bob, Lisa,

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 1>what would you say? It's like very two thousand and four.

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.840
<v Speaker 1>If you can pull off short hair in two thousand

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 1>and four, it's very like politician v. Hillary Clinton to me.

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>But this doctor is famous Ali Reza. Yeah, yeah, I

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:39.480
<v Speaker 1>know I've worked with him.

0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where, but he wrote on SNL and

0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Inside Amy Shuter, like he has all these comedy credits.

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.480
<v Speaker 3>But I feel like I've worked with him. Okay, well,

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 3>here's who he is. I was about to say.

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 1>The side note is the guy playing the doctor is

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Bill as Ali Raza, who's been on a handful of

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.199
<v Speaker 1>episodes of S you as this doctor. But if you

0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.240
<v Speaker 1>dig a bit deeper because you recognize him, which I did,

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>his full name is Ali Raisa Paranakian and he is

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the founder of the Pit, the People's Improv.

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.199
<v Speaker 3>Theater in New York. Lol.

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So if you've ever walked into the Pit, you

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.920
<v Speaker 1>know that the pit is covered in artistic renderings of

0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Ali Paranakian. Like he literally decorated his own theater with

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 1>just photos of himself and paintings of himself. So that's

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>he was originally, I believe, like the lore of New

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 1>York comedy is that he was part like he was

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>in with the UC before and then he like ren

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and did his own thing, and that's why the People's

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Improv Theater aka the Pit came about. We spoke to

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 1>actress Lee Hubilia. She had done some stuff at the Pit.

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 1>We've talked about it before on this podcast. So anyway,

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 1>that's who he is. They are talking about someone who

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.520
<v Speaker 1>is thirty weeks so long in a pregnancy. She won't

0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.120
<v Speaker 1>say who the father is, and Scarring suggests that she's

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 1>been pregnant and delivered before. She refuses to tell us

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 1>where her parents are, and then the big reveal is

0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 1>that she is twelve and a half years old.

0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 3>Done done.

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>She is going to be in the hospital for ten

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>weeks until the baby is born, probably because of her

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 1>age and because she's had some bleeding, and her name

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 1>is Melanie. Olivia goes to talk to her and she

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of asked her about her first baby, and she

0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 1>says that first baby died. My mom says he's with

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>God now, So now we know that she has a mom,

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and she says she's not supposed to tell anyone where

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 1>her mom is.

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 3>But then Olivia classic Benson.

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Really relates to her and says, if I was your mom,

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd want to be here with you.

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.920
<v Speaker 3>And so the girl writes down the address, and she's cute.

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>This girl's like a little redhead, freckle face, like very cute,

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 1>twelve and a half year old girl. And she tells

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Olivia that the baby's father is named Abraham. This is

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>not a fellow sixth grader. She says, he's my husband.

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 1>So we're already getting some ideas that this is not

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>a great situation. Olivia shows up at a brownstone, ostensibly

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the address that Melanie has given her with a couple

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 1>of unis and they knock on the door. This adorable

0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 1>little boy answers the door. There's three other kids standing

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 1>behind him. They all have dead eyes. And then a

0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 1>man who has haunted my dreams for my entire life

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 1>because he was in a bunch of scary movies I watched.

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.960
<v Speaker 1>As a kid comes to the door. He has a

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.000
<v Speaker 1>snake tattoo on his hand that goes up his wrists. Liza,

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 1>I love your thoughts. Olivia asked him to step outside.

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 1>He goes, I can't do that, and he slams the

0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 1>door in her face. Olivia is about to call in

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.359
<v Speaker 1>back up when suddenly gunshots ring out and that's the credits.

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 3>Any thoughts on the tattoo, Lisa.

0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, snakes are in no, but they're scary to me.

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.720
<v Speaker 2>And I get how they're pretty tattoos, but snakes scare me.

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 3>And maybe I'll get one. I don't know. Well, we

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.680
<v Speaker 3>do get a reference to it later, but yeah, no thoughts.

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>But usually if you decide to get hand tattoos or

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 2>tattoos that are that visible, you are committing to a

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>life without like conventional rules. You're not gonna work at

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 2>a bank, you're not gonna have a job like Most

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.720
<v Speaker 2>Steven tattoo shops are hesitant to give people like hand

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.240
<v Speaker 2>or neck tattoos that aren't already fully covered because it

0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.120
<v Speaker 2>does dramatically change your life.

0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 1>So we know that this guy is off the grid

0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 1>for sure. I was thinking for you, though not a snake,

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.879
<v Speaker 1>but in the snake family. Do you have any feelings

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>towards Lowlyworm from the Richard Scary books.

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 3>He's very cute.

0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.600
<v Speaker 2>I have a toy of him in an apple car

0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.120
<v Speaker 2>with wheels, so I do.

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 3>I am a fan and I have It's almost as

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.639
<v Speaker 3>if I know you. Okay, wait, did you know I

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 3>had the toy? No, not at all.

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:28.879
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 3>I think about getting him tattooed all the time.

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.359
<v Speaker 1>I literally thought about it because somebody just gave Rosia

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Richard Scary book and I was like, oh, I forgot

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:35.840
<v Speaker 1>about this little guy.

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.760
<v Speaker 3>He's always in my heart. He's always on your mind. Okay.

0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 1>So now at the top of act one, Stabler's on

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the scene. Olivia is like fully out of breath, giving

0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 1>him the full rundown. Like I don't know if she

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>ran around the block before she did this scene with him,

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.920
<v Speaker 1>but she's like, okay, here's the story, Like she's giving

0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:54.920
<v Speaker 1>him the whole rundown.

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I think she has a spidy sense of

0:17:58.119 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>like shit ain't good.

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is and there's all these kids in the house. Yes,

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.879
<v Speaker 1>the house is listed as being owned by Abraham o Fion.

0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 1>He's not responding to hostage negotiators. There's no phone service,

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.720
<v Speaker 1>there's no electricity in that house for eight years. Also

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 1>not a great sign. So as they're strategizing for how

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.359
<v Speaker 1>to get into the house with like the it's not

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 1>a swat team, but it's like the emergency response team,

0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.560
<v Speaker 1>I think, is what they are. They hear more shots

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:31.520
<v Speaker 1>fire off and they immediately go in and you hear

0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.400
<v Speaker 1>over the radio call ems get ems here now.

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:34.960
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 1>So as Benson and Stablers start running towards the building,

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 1>officers Erminio who's played by John Ortiz, who's an actor

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 1>you've seen in many, many, many things.

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Everything.

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like he is his IMDb blew me out of

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.159
<v Speaker 1>the water, like he's done so much. He staggers out

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.439
<v Speaker 1>of the building saying that the purpose is gone, and

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:53.480
<v Speaker 1>he goes they're dead.

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 3>They're all dead.

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>So here you go, guys, this is the episode you wanted.

0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Just kidding, we kind of did too, but I mean

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.120
<v Speaker 1>it's this episode's not fun for a lot of reasons.

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 1>So they go into the house. It's now We've got

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Finn and Munch and Benson and Stable or the whole

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.440
<v Speaker 1>gang is there, and this house is like full cults.

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>There's bibles strewn about, there's drawings on the wall of

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 1>scripture stuff, and then there's just like a pile of

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 1>dead children. I don't know how other way to put it.

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 1>There's all these all the kids we've seen earlier are dead,

0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I think additional children. There's like a pacifier next to

0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 1>a pool of blood. I mean, they are not sparing

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 1>you at all.

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 3>On this episode.

0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 1>There's PJ like you see like little bits of kids.

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Qutpj's like it's just really really awful. They do close

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.399
<v Speaker 1>up shots of Benson's face, Stabler's face, Munch and Finn

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 1>like no one's doing well. And Olivia walks over and

0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.720
<v Speaker 1>sees the kid who opened the door for her, and

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>her face is just like so haunted.

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:53.479
<v Speaker 3>I know we use that word a lot, but like

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:54.200
<v Speaker 3>she's just like.

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I just saw this kid alive twenty

0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>minutes ago or however long ago it was. So Back

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 1>at the squad, we find out that Abraham has escaped

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.960
<v Speaker 1>via tunnels under the house, and they also find out

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 1>that eight years ago he tried to gain tax exempt

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 1>status for what his organization called the Church of Wisdom

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 1>and Sight. So basically, we are dealing with a cult here.

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.879
<v Speaker 1>Craigan's like, we might be dealing with a cult. No, Craigan,

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.920
<v Speaker 1>it's fully one hundred percent cult. The department is providing

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>non optional psych support for all the officers and detectives,

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.399
<v Speaker 1>and Stabler immediately looks huffy about it.

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.000
<v Speaker 3>We know how he feels about mental health.

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I know, but it's like, you just saw a house

0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.040
<v Speaker 2>of dead children? Can you just talk to a therapist?

0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Like this denial of everything, Like it is so hard

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.160
<v Speaker 2>to watch these old episodes.

0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 3>He is so annoying, I know.

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.120
<v Speaker 1>And he's very like this is a waste of time.

0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.840
<v Speaker 1>We got to get to our jobs. And it's like, okay,

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:50.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean.

0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:56.280
<v Speaker 3>It's a house of dead children. Just talk to George. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 1>So Huang steps in and is like, I can talk

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:00.480
<v Speaker 1>to you right now, Like, let's get over with If

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 1>speed is your issue, let's do it now. So Huang

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 1>interviews Stabler, and we're now intercutting between Huang interviewing all

0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 1>four of the main cast. Stable's trying to be a

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 1>tough guy, like, oh, what do you want me to say,

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh yeah, there's some dead kids, Like he's

0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.480
<v Speaker 1>just being a dick. Munch is kind of trying to

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.920
<v Speaker 1>be cynical, but Houang is like, this is actually proof

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 1>that you can still be repulsed. After everything you've seen

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.320
<v Speaker 1>in the world. You're this big conspiracy theorist. You always like,

0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, have your cynical edge, but you still can

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.199
<v Speaker 1>be shocked, and like this has obviously shocked you and

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 1>repulsed you. Olivia looks so upset, like this is such

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.920
<v Speaker 1>a great scene for her, Like she's such a good

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.280
<v Speaker 1>actor in this scene, like you really truly feel like

0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>you're talking to someone who has you're seeing someone who

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:50.359
<v Speaker 1>has experienced a profound trauma. Finn's kind of trying to

0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.919
<v Speaker 1>play it cool, but he's a little bit more vulnerable.

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.919
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I ate dinner and I call my kid.

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.439
<v Speaker 1>I kind of realized that nobody's safe, you know. And

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.359
<v Speaker 1>then you think Stabler is getting a little little bit

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>more into it because he says he there was one

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.120
<v Speaker 1>girl wearing a Teddy Bear shirt that his daughter has,

0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.919
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, oh, okay, maybe Stabler's actually giving up

0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of vulnerability here, and then Olivia says

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.159
<v Speaker 1>she's afraid she won't be able to handle it. She

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of breaks down, and like we just like, I

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 1>feel like we don't see these kind of moments from

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.600
<v Speaker 1>her anymore now that she's a captain. We just don't

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.199
<v Speaker 1>see these moments from Olivia just fully being like the

0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:26.760
<v Speaker 1>shit I see day in and day out on this

0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:28.959
<v Speaker 1>job is just going to break me at some point.

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 1>And I just was wondering if they submitted this episode

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 1>for an Emmy, because she did a really amazing job

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 1>in this episode in my opinion.

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like tears building the eyes, but not dropping yes,

0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 2>plan that like just enough quivering of the lip.

0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Like later she does some real yelling but doesn't get

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>too like it's she's really great. So then after everyone's

0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of out of their psychological thing, Olivia gets an

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 1>id on Abraham based off of one of his fingerprints

0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 1>in the house.

0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:57.240
<v Speaker 3>His name is Eugene Hoff.

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.320
<v Speaker 1>He's got a long record for check theft all kinds

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.399
<v Speaker 1>of stuff. So basically we're getting the idea this guy's

0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.119
<v Speaker 1>just like a snake oil salesman and this religious stuff

0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 1>is a cover for how he steals. But it's like,

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.119
<v Speaker 1>if you're stealing money and doing check fraud. Howard do

0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.639
<v Speaker 1>you not have money for electricity for eight years?

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 3>But I guess to each their own what you want

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:17.199
<v Speaker 3>to spend your money on.

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Finn comes out and is like, I'm taking off. He's

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 1>going to take a quick leave. He's like, sometimes you

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.479
<v Speaker 1>just got to step back, Like you gotta love Finn.

0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.960
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I just need a moment after seeing what

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I saw live, is like, they're definitely gonna send me home.

0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 3>I got way too emotional.

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 1>And then Elliott gets called in and guess what, he

0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.320
<v Speaker 1>gets sent home because this dude does not process shit,

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 1>and they even take his gun.

0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 3>Interesting.

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Benson and Munch get paired up and we continue to

0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the episode. I guess Stabler is going

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 1>to be Stabler had I don't know an OS reunion

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to shoot that day.

0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. But he's not there anymore.

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 1>They look up an old church that he used to

0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>be a part of, which was a Pentecostal church. A hello,

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 1>my husband grew up in the Pentecostal church, very very

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 1>speaking in tugs very that very Sentropez and it's called

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.800
<v Speaker 1>the Christian Tabernacle of Grace. And they go and they

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 1>talk to. It's not like a priest, it's like a

0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>church businessman. And he's like I was tricked, Like I

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 1>believed this guy was super into religion and people were

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 1>very drawn to him.

0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 3>But he preached that the serpent was Christ. And that's

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 3>a little nod to the tattoo.

0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't really know the serpent that convinced Adam and

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Eve to eat the apple, I guess is Jesus.

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but now I'm remembering the coloring of

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.520
<v Speaker 2>his tattoo is also I think a poison snake, isn't

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 2>it like when it's red and black and somebody else

0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>that's like danger afoot.

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 1>I guess I didn't even know that about snakes, But yeah,

0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 1>you didn't know.

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 2>That's the more bright a reptile or animal, the more

0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 2>dangerous they are. No, Yeah, like frogs that are like

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 2>super electric blue and cool colors.

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 3>It's basically like.

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 2>A warning to any predators, like you better stay away

0:24:57.960 --> 0:24:59.040
<v Speaker 2>on poisonous as fuck.

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow, well, Lisa, I'm so excited to know the fact

0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:06.119
<v Speaker 3>that you didn't know nature channels over here. Thank you.

0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 3>But it's crazy and hard about snakes.

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Is like there's somewhere if it's like red black yellow,

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.240
<v Speaker 2>like chill. But if it's like yellow black, red, you're dead. Yeah,

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:18.439
<v Speaker 2>something like wild. I don't know the patterns. You have

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:21.680
<v Speaker 2>to know the patterns. But the most beautiful.

0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Creatures are usually the most poisonous and deadly. That's interesting.

0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:29.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's a lot of metaphors with like woman

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Killer movies where they are dressed fancy.

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Or like a Circle of Deceptions during Diane Neil, I

0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 1>miss our friends. I know, I mean her character was

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:45.560
<v Speaker 1>a femme fatale, not her. So this guy tells them

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 1>that ten families left the parish with Eugene when he

0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 1>was fired.

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Eugene aka Abraham. I mean my name was Eugene. I

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:54.160
<v Speaker 2>would change it too.

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:56.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, we have a friend who has a friend.

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 3>It just came through my brain and I said that

0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 3>I love Well.

0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 2>I have to stop just saying I hate names on

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 2>this podcast because people are like, ah, I think it's

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:06.720
<v Speaker 2>fine to not like a name.

0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:08.199
<v Speaker 3>To say a name's not for you doesn't mean you

0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 3>hate the person.

0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:09.239
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.000
<v Speaker 1>But Gene, I've been noticing, is popular. Like our friend

0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 1>has a friend named Jean. Amy Schumer's baby is named Jean.

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:17.679
<v Speaker 3>Like I don't know.

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:19.760
<v Speaker 1>And then on Mad Men, there was baby Gene a

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 1>few years ago. That was a big thing.

0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 3>My friend's dog is named Gene. Okay, that counts. I

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:28.160
<v Speaker 3>see a lot of dogs named Rosie on Instagram. Just fyi.

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:30.760
<v Speaker 3>But okay, So back into the story.

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Eugene takes ten families with him when he leaves this

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Pentecostal church, but one family left him after a few years,

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:39.199
<v Speaker 1>so maybe you should go talk to them. Okay, now

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 1>we're talking to them. Carl and Simone, Buckman and queens.

0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 1>They said Abraham was magnetic. He made you feel special,

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>even in a room full of people. And he then

0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.080
<v Speaker 1>like they eventually were kind of like he got a

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:51.919
<v Speaker 1>little bit kooky, you know. He started telling them that

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:53.959
<v Speaker 1>the government was going to kill them, and they started

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:55.800
<v Speaker 1>collecting weapons and storing food.

0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 3>And then he.

0:26:56.840 --> 0:27:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Started separating the married couples and surprised, surprised, the women

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 1>slept on his floor and he paid. He would talk

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 1>about the sanctity of children, but he paid most attention

0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:08.480
<v Speaker 1>to little girls.

0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:10.399
<v Speaker 3>And at one point.

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 1>They caught him in their four year old's room in

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.560
<v Speaker 1>his underwear, and she swears he never touched her, but

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:17.439
<v Speaker 1>they pieced out that night because it sounds like it

0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 1>was only a matter of time. They give the cops

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 1>a VHS tape of Abraham and now we are watching

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.399
<v Speaker 1>this him do a sermon of like the soldiers of

0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Satan are coming to murder you and your children.

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 3>And all this kind of stuff that you would expect. Well,

0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:35.960
<v Speaker 3>did you watch the We Work documentary? No?

0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>No, okay, Well, because this reminds me of this where

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:41.480
<v Speaker 2>this couple is saying like he was magnetic, amazing, and.

0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Then you watch the footage and you're like, he's a creep.

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:46.320
<v Speaker 2>And that's how I felt with We Work, Like everyone

0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 2>that was tricked by him were.

0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Like he was amazing and funny part and then you

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:50.399
<v Speaker 3>see him.

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Talk the whole doc and you're like, I would spit

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:54.160
<v Speaker 2>on this person if I saw him.

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's the same with Keith Ranieri. People are

0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 3>like he was so magnetic.

0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, he looks like add volleyball dork, Like, what

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:03.439
<v Speaker 1>are you talking about? Like, I don't know, I'm not

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 1>getting the magnetism, but I guess maybe you have to

0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:06.040
<v Speaker 1>be in.

0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:07.199
<v Speaker 3>The room with them. I don't know.

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, people would say maybe they don't feel that way

0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:12.720
<v Speaker 1>about I'm a Chamberlain, but you do, so who knows?

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:13.879
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I like, I'm a Chamberlain and I'm not like you

0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 2>for her. Yeah, I'm not selling off my possessions in

0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 2>like squirreling in her backyard, ready to serve, Like I

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 2>just buy some merch.

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes you're not doing those things, Lisa promise.

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean I have been an obsessive fan before. Did

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 2>I bid on Anthony Ketis's shorts on eBay?

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 3>Yes? But you definitely have a healthy version vision.

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:47.120
<v Speaker 2>You have a healthy way of being a fan that

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:48.800
<v Speaker 2>does not cross over into culhood.

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:50.840
<v Speaker 3>And I was not suggesting that I'm just messing.

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:53.040
<v Speaker 2>When Steve O was at a night club, did I

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>wait in line, pay twenty dollars get in to meet him?

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:55.800
<v Speaker 4>Yes?

0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 3>Twenty dollars to meet Steve O doesn't sound that crazy

0:28:58.760 --> 0:28:59.000
<v Speaker 3>to me.

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. When I opened firm, I showed him this seleutty

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 2>photo of me at twenty sneaking into clubs to meet him.

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 3>So tan, so blonde. But well, I mean, can we

0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:11.560
<v Speaker 3>get that photo up on our Instagram?

0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 2>I would love to let everyone know what I looked

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:18.720
<v Speaker 2>like in my youth. I was a clubber. Tan highlighted

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 2>psychopaths well, I've sold the story how I had memberships

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 2>some multiple tanning salons so I didn't have to wait

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:31.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty four hours. I could keep tanning. Like that's that's

0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:32.959
<v Speaker 2>the vibe you're about to see.

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I tanned so much in college, and I

0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 1>think I went to places that didn't even do the

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hour thing. Like I went to places where

0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:42.239
<v Speaker 1>the packages were five dollars a session, like I was.

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 3>It was crazy.

0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:47.360
<v Speaker 2>How a couple of years ago, I think I tanned

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 2>before I went to a wedding or something and I

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.600
<v Speaker 2>went to the La tan and Skochie and the woman

0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:56.040
<v Speaker 2>was like, whoa, you haven't been here since twenty eleven.

0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:58.520
<v Speaker 3>Like she said a date that. Like she looked at

0:29:58.520 --> 0:29:59.320
<v Speaker 3>me like how.

0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Old are you? But I hadn't been there in like

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 2>so long. But still in the system. Still in the system.

0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 3>So funny.

0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, now let's get back to back to a murderous

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 1>pedophile cult leader. So after they're watching his little sermon,

0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're all sort of just talking about him.

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Huang's kind of profiling and being like a lot of

0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:24.719
<v Speaker 1>cult leaders were known to have sexual relationships with children.

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 2>To go back, I'm sorry, but when the parents are

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:31.040
<v Speaker 2>talking to the detective. Their daughter's making a sandwich, like

0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 2>a peanutater and jelly sandwich in the background, and then

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:35.120
<v Speaker 2>they like tell her to go to her room, but

0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:38.400
<v Speaker 2>then she leaves the fully made sandwich on the counter, Like,

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 2>who'd you make the sandwich for?

0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Did not clock that? I guess she's not allowed to

0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:45.880
<v Speaker 1>eat in her room. I don't know I clocked it.

0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 1>I was like, the sandwich is made.

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 2>She put the knife on the finished sandwich, and I

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>was like, take it with you. But they had like

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 2>jelly and a squeeze bottle and everything. But yeah, I

0:30:56.760 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 2>guess when you start watching sv most of your week,

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you end up noticing background peanut butter.

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:06.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 1>So Huog is telling them that a lot of cult

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:10.960
<v Speaker 1>leaders were known to have sexual relationships with children.

0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:12.640
<v Speaker 3>Koresh had a ten year old bride.

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 1>There's another call leader he mentions that had like fourteen

0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, young victims. Could I didn't catch the name

0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 1>of the of the call leader in that one. But

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:24.720
<v Speaker 1>then in the middle of this, someone calls the precinct

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 1>asking if one of the boys found as a nine

0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>year old with brown hair and a scar on his leg.

0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.040
<v Speaker 1>They're like trace the call, Wong calls in his like

0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 1>special tracing credentials and is like, this is Agent Hwang

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 1>number seven to whatever whatever whatever put a trace on

0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 1>this line.

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know that was how it worked, really, but

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:46.200
<v Speaker 2>But then we also see like back in the day

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 2>technology because then Marishka is like taping the phone call

0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 2>on speaker on a little tape recorder with little tape,

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:57.160
<v Speaker 2>so it is like very of the time that she

0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 2>has a little handheld tape recorder too, Yeah, for sure.

0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:04.480
<v Speaker 3>And she's just like begging to know.

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Like it was there, a little boy, was their little boy,

0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 1>and you know, Craigan's got her on the hook. He's like,

0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 1>why don't you come in. You can identify the boy yourself.

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>You can look at all the kids and see if.

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 3>You know any of them or whatever. And obviously she's like,

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:15.960
<v Speaker 3>I can't tell you.

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 1>She hangs up, and they trace the call to a

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 1>payphone at Saint Catharine's, which is the hospital where we

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:24.440
<v Speaker 1>started the episode, which is where Melanie is. So Olivia

0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 1>goes to see Melanie and she's like, I can't tell

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 1>you anything, and you know, Olivia kind of lays down

0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the law with her and it's like, listen, bitch, sorry,

0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:36.400
<v Speaker 1>I know you're twelve, but Abraham is a liar. He's

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 1>going to kill your mom, et cetera, et cetera. And

0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 1>she says something like they're in a safe place. And

0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.120
<v Speaker 1>then the next thing we know, we're seeing a sign

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 1>that says like a safer nation or something, and we're

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 1>in some kind of army navy shop or like a

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 1>libertarian gift shop. I have no idea what it is,

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 1>but it's some kind of a shop where the guy's like,

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 1>this is against my rights. And then in the back

0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 1>they find a bunch of women gathered to get there,

0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, cross legged in a circle praying, and this

0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.360
<v Speaker 1>one woman starts freaking out like you're the soldiers of

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Satan whatever. And they find a ton of guns. They're

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:13.120
<v Speaker 1>like stockpiling guns. So now we're at the precinct with

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:15.640
<v Speaker 1>all these women. They're all kind of wearing khaki and

0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 1>like various loose linen blouses, and they are not giving

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:23.720
<v Speaker 1>up any information on Abraham. None of them have id

0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 1>on them, and they don't know where he is. According

0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 1>to Huang Wong's like that's why they're scared. They don't

0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:29.240
<v Speaker 1>know where he is.

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:30.040
<v Speaker 3>They're basically a.

0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 1>Flock without their drained shepherd, so they're they're freaking out

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:33.960
<v Speaker 1>and they're.

0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:35.400
<v Speaker 3>Trying to just like play it cool.

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Then they get a call from the medical examiner, Tamaratuni,

0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 1>always flying in with some crazy news at a perfect time.

0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.160
<v Speaker 1>She's got bad news for the cops. Abraham is not

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 1>the one who killed the kids. The oldest victim is

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 1>around twenty years old.

0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.400
<v Speaker 2>We've never seen her, we don't know who this person is,

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 2>but she's the oldest victim.

0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:57.479
<v Speaker 1>She's twenty years old. Her wounds are self inflicted, her

0:33:57.520 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>prints are the only prints on the gun, and she

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 1>has gunshot residue all over her hands. So Munch is

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:04.840
<v Speaker 1>like Abraham is still responsible.

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 3>He had total control over all of them.

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:11.440
<v Speaker 1>And Warner also discovers that all of these kids have

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.520
<v Speaker 1>the same father except for the shooter, so basically he's

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:16.960
<v Speaker 1>an incestuous pedophile.

0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.120
<v Speaker 3>Like and if you shoot all your kids, no one

0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:23.719
<v Speaker 3>can testify to that except for Melanie. So now it's

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:24.879
<v Speaker 3>very very important that we.

0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 1>Get INtime, we make sure Melanie is safe and that

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:31.279
<v Speaker 1>she can testify. Obviously, Live gets to the hospital and

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 1>she's gone, and they say her dad took her home.

0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:36.239
<v Speaker 3>Uh, oh, that's not her dad.

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's like, even if that is her dad,

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:41.320
<v Speaker 2>or whatever version of a dad that is, it's a

0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 2>twelve year old who's pregnant. So the dad's not doing

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:46.399
<v Speaker 2>a good job, you know what I mean? Right, maybe

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:47.239
<v Speaker 2>don't release her.

0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Wait, Aye's checking her out of a hotel of a

0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:52.719
<v Speaker 1>hospital when she's supposed to be on bed rest until

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 1>she delivers. What's he saying, I'm going to take her

0:34:55.000 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 1>home into a home birth. Like, I'm surprised he was

0:34:57.200 --> 0:34:58.520
<v Speaker 1>even allowed to discharge her.

0:34:58.880 --> 0:34:59.799
<v Speaker 3>I guess against medical.

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:04.879
<v Speaker 1>So at the squad, they are listening to one woman

0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>named Sarah talk to one of the cups and they

0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:11.799
<v Speaker 1>recognize her voice from the call, which Olivia yes does

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:12.319
<v Speaker 1>have on.

0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 3>A tiny handheld recorder.

0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 1>And when she came in, she has a piece of

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 1>paper with numbers in her pocket and she won't say

0:35:19.080 --> 0:35:22.839
<v Speaker 1>what the numbers are. She does admit to being Melanie's mother.

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Eventually they they're like, we know you're Melanie's mom, and

0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 1>she says that Melanie's father abandoned them when Melanie was

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 1>a baby, and then Olivia goes fucking off on her

0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:35.520
<v Speaker 1>like blames her for the whole thing, for all the

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 1>kids being killed. She's screaming at her. It's like it's

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 1>honestly some of Benson's best yelling. Oh yeah, this scene

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 1>as powerful as fuck. She I mean she also she

0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:53.520
<v Speaker 1>looks stunning, gorgeous in every way, incredible acting like sometimes

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:55.919
<v Speaker 1>with the Stan Marishka accounts, I'm like, Okay, you guys

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.400
<v Speaker 1>are creepy and you need to relax. And then you

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 1>see a scene like this and you're like, okay, are

0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:01.440
<v Speaker 1>you our.

0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:02.719
<v Speaker 3>Cult leader, because I will.

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 2>I will drop anything and do anything you need, Like

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I will sell everything in my apartment to keep you safe.

0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Like she just kills it.

0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>And like she just like to be able to scream

0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:19.240
<v Speaker 1>and still look so beautiful, like while you're screaming with anger.

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there's like a upper lip sweat and I'm like, okay,

0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 2>so now you're making upper lip sweat look good too.

0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 1>So you think that Olivia is gonna break her with

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:37.240
<v Speaker 1>this beautiful screaming she's doing. But unfortunately Sarah is fully

0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 1>brainwashed and is.

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 3>Like this is a test and I will not be tempted.

0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Typical cult shit.

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Munch finds out that the numbers on the piece of

0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.640
<v Speaker 1>paper in her pocket are bank account numbers, and someone

0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:51.200
<v Speaker 1>has recently cleared them all out, and it's about six

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:54.520
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand dollars. And a lot of these are counterfeit

0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:59.319
<v Speaker 1>checks from large corporations, which are easier to counterfeit because

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 1>large corporations don't, like you know, keep such track of

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:03.960
<v Speaker 1>like every penny, like the way I guess like a

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 1>small business would do. So he does all of his

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:10.240
<v Speaker 1>bogus banking in one place, and they're like, he must.

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Have an inside guy there. So I love this detail.

0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.120
<v Speaker 2>They go to the bank and when they show up,

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 2>this fucking loser guy who you can tell is Abraham's

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:22.320
<v Speaker 2>guy on the inside is talking to trying to romance

0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:24.520
<v Speaker 2>some lady on the phone, and he goes, we could

0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 2>go someplace special, I don't know, go to Tampa. Like,

0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:31.080
<v Speaker 2>who are you that Tampa is the place you're trying

0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:33.319
<v Speaker 2>to bring? No offense to anybody from Tampa. I've spent

0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time there. I have family in Sarasota.

0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 2>I fly into Tampa all the time.

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>It's just not the place that you're trying to like

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:42.280
<v Speaker 1>romance whisk a woman off to Okay, wait.

0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that where real house sives of Atlanta. Drew's husband

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:45.760
<v Speaker 2>went to Tampa.

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 3>He went to where he went. He went to Tampa.

0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:51.200
<v Speaker 2>It's the stripper capital in the world or in America

0:37:51.320 --> 0:37:52.680
<v Speaker 2>or something like strip club capital.

0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:54.240
<v Speaker 3>It's big strip club territory.

0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I keep saying world, but I'm sure there's another country

0:37:57.360 --> 0:37:58.600
<v Speaker 2>that has more strip clubs.

0:37:58.719 --> 0:37:59.279
<v Speaker 3>What do you think.

0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.719
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the US has the market cornered on

0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 1>strip clubs.

0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but Hannah will type and find out

0:38:05.200 --> 0:38:07.200
<v Speaker 2>number number country to the club.

0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:10.560
<v Speaker 3>It's gonna be sometime. It's gonna be like Lincoln Stein

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:12.280
<v Speaker 3>for the US. It's Portland.

0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they have fifty four in Portland. That doesn't feel

0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:23.240
<v Speaker 2>like fifty four is my lucky number. So Portland beats Tampa, Wow,

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:25.600
<v Speaker 2>and Atlanta. I mean, I feel like Atlanta has a

0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>lot of strip clubs.

0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:27.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean like there's a lot.

0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm but I've always known my dad told me that,

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:32.520
<v Speaker 1>which is sad. My dad told me Portland was the

0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:34.240
<v Speaker 1>strip club capital, so it's always stuck.

0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:36.960
<v Speaker 3>In my head. Well, they're also full nake in Portland.

0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Oh, they go full I'm a I'm a full nude

0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:43.360
<v Speaker 1>type of bitch. As we learned from watching Zola me

0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:44.200
<v Speaker 1>and I.

0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 3>Was about to say Zola. They go to Tampa. Yeah, yeah, So.

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's funny that this guy's about to

0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:54.000
<v Speaker 1>be like somewhere special like Tampa.

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:57.120
<v Speaker 3>So they confront him about Abraham.

0:38:57.280 --> 0:38:59.799
<v Speaker 1>They're like, look, the FBI is involved, just like get

0:38:59.840 --> 0:39:02.359
<v Speaker 1>your already bucked, so just don't even try it with us,

0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:05.839
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, okay, Abraham's coming in later. Today he's

0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.000
<v Speaker 1>closing out one last account. It has more money in

0:39:08.040 --> 0:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>it than all of them. I feel like this next

0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 1>scene is very reminiscent of Fault, even though Fault is

0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:16.480
<v Speaker 1>season seven, right, It's just a similar kind of scene.

0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 1>It's like asking a civilian to kind of like play

0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 1>a role to lure a guy in to get money.

0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:23.920
<v Speaker 1>And then there's like a whole next slitting thing. Even

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.319
<v Speaker 1>though it happens to Olivia and the Fault one, the guy,

0:39:26.400 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's just to me.

0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:29.440
<v Speaker 3>I was getting a lot of Fault echoes in this

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:31.280
<v Speaker 3>even though this episode came first.

0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 2>But it's also this bank guy is like it's like

0:39:34.239 --> 0:39:36.560
<v Speaker 2>it's like, what is your loyalty to this guy?

0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 3>Just turn him over to the FBI.

0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:42.759
<v Speaker 2>Like it felt like he was like struggling to do this.

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it was just nerves, maybe maybe.

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Thought he was gonna kill him, but not never as

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:51.319
<v Speaker 1>bad as that fucking guy from Fault who worked at

0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 1>the check cashing place. Fuck that guy forever. So Reggie

0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:57.680
<v Speaker 1>is the name of the bank teller guy like uh.

0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Abraham walks in and Reggie's immediately like sweating through the glass.

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 3>You can tell he's very nervous. He's fucking it up.

0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Munch is like, Reggie's blowing this, We're blown, blah blah blah.

0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Craigan pulls his gun. All these people pull guns. Abraham's

0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 1>totally cornered. He pulls out a knife and says like

0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:15.800
<v Speaker 1>into the darkness.

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:17.399
<v Speaker 3>Or something like that. I don't remember. I didn't write

0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:19.279
<v Speaker 3>down the actual quote, but it's some kind of like,

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:21.080
<v Speaker 3>you know, faux religious bullshit.

0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Almost slits his own throat and then Olivia jumps on

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.560
<v Speaker 1>him out of nowhere to stop it. And at the

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 1>top of act four, we've got more. I swear they

0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:31.720
<v Speaker 1>must have nominated her for an Emmy for this episode.

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:34.600
<v Speaker 1>We should look it up because there's so many good scenes.

0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>This is another great scene. She's interviewing Abraham by herself.

0:40:39.120 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay, she's not.

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:43.319
<v Speaker 1>There's no Stabler tag tag team. She's alone, one on

0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:46.359
<v Speaker 1>one with this freaky ass cult leader, and he tries

0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to turn the tables on her, like how can you

0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:51.280
<v Speaker 1>invite all this depravity of your job into your mind,

0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:53.400
<v Speaker 1>your body, your soul. It's going to eat you like

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 1>a cancer, Like why is this so important to you?

0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:58.759
<v Speaker 3>Are you? Have you been raped? Like you know he's

0:40:59.120 --> 0:40:59.920
<v Speaker 3>trying to get to her.

0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:02.319
<v Speaker 2>It's also like didn't you just see a bunch of

0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 2>dead child like you are creating the thing.

0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 3>I cut this out. This makes no sense. I'm just

0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:12.040
<v Speaker 3>in a rage. I would actually counter and say, do

0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:12.960
<v Speaker 3>not cut this out.

0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:16.560
<v Speaker 1>So Olivia is speaking to him, but the way that

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:18.719
<v Speaker 1>they're shooting it, it almost looks like she's doing like

0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 1>a monologue like into the camera, and she's basically like

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:24.759
<v Speaker 1>telling Abraham like she has his number and he's not

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 1>going to fucking get in her head like and she's like,

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you're pathetic, like you actually believe your own hype. You've

0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:33.120
<v Speaker 1>conned yourself. And then she kind of walks out of

0:41:33.120 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 1>the room and he does have a look on his

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 1>face like fuck this woman, like knows what I'm up

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 1>to or whatever and uh back behind the one way glass. Unfortunately,

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Novak is like, without Melanie's testimony, we don't have a case.

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:50.600
<v Speaker 1>A reminder, he has moved Melanie somewhere and we do

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:52.839
<v Speaker 1>not know where she is after he took her out

0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:55.880
<v Speaker 1>of the hospital. So a lawyer shows up and says

0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:59.680
<v Speaker 1>that somehow this guy, this fucking cult leader who hasn't

0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 1>had a like tricity in eight years, but I guess

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:05.680
<v Speaker 1>does have six hundred thousand dollars of stolen money, was

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:06.360
<v Speaker 1>able to get like.

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:07.280
<v Speaker 3>A hot shot lawyer.

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Because this guy shows up and kind of knows what's up,

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, you're never going to get him on

0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:15.160
<v Speaker 1>statutory rate because it's only the Emmy's estimation of how

0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 1>old this girl is, so that's not concrete enough for

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 1>any judge that'll rule out statutory rape.

0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:22.239
<v Speaker 3>And without that, you're not going to get incested. And

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 3>I still think.

0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:25.359
<v Speaker 1>You'd get all this with DNA. So I'm a little

0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 1>bit confused. How the lawyer comes in just like bing

0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 1>bang bong and like it's done. But and he's like,

0:42:30.200 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 1>and your murderer killed herself. So Casey's like, we're pretty screwed,

0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:35.719
<v Speaker 1>like this guy's right. I hate to say it, but

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:37.520
<v Speaker 1>this guy's right, Like, we don't really have a case

0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 1>without Melanie, and monchur Craigan says, what about Manson?

0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:42.239
<v Speaker 3>And that's what originally I thought of.

0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Manson went to jail and he never

0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:48.560
<v Speaker 1>killed anybody specifically as far as I know. And they're like,

0:42:48.640 --> 0:42:50.759
<v Speaker 1>Manson had followers who testified.

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:53.400
<v Speaker 3>So that's the problem. That's why we need Melanie.

0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 2>Melanie what a popular girl. Everyone wants a piece of

0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 2>her exactly.

0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:00.640
<v Speaker 1>The account that Abraham was trying to out at this

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:03.480
<v Speaker 1>bank actually has over a million dollars in it and

0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:06.200
<v Speaker 1>it was under the name of John Kramer in Englewood,

0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 1>New Jersey. Now they go and they talk to some

0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:13.839
<v Speaker 1>private investigator who investigated his disappearance. So it turns out

0:43:13.840 --> 0:43:16.440
<v Speaker 1>this guy, John Kramer, vanished with his wife and two

0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:19.320
<v Speaker 1>year old daughter named Melanie, ten years earlier.

0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:21.480
<v Speaker 3>So we're starting to get a picture here.

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:25.560
<v Speaker 1>We find out that from this private investigator, who the

0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:29.000
<v Speaker 1>wife's parents had hired to find her and the family

0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 1>because they all just disappeared, We find out from him

0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:33.720
<v Speaker 1>that Melanie has a trust fund with two million dollars

0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:35.400
<v Speaker 1>in it that she gets when she turns twenty one

0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:38.960
<v Speaker 1>or she has a baby, whichever one comes first. The

0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:42.800
<v Speaker 1>last trace of John that this investigator found was buying

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.240
<v Speaker 1>construction materials on his credit card that his mom paid

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:50.080
<v Speaker 1>for I guess ten years ago. Month remembers that there

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:54.120
<v Speaker 1>had been a noise complaint against Abraham's Brownstone from people

0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:56.840
<v Speaker 1>doing middle of the night construction. So we searched that

0:43:56.920 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 1>house up to up top of to bottom, they say,

0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:00.120
<v Speaker 1>but we didn't check the wall.

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 3>So now we're back at the house.

0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:04.160
<v Speaker 1>We've got a lady with a blueprint and she's like,

0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.560
<v Speaker 1>we're basically looking for a room that shouldn't be there.

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.480
<v Speaker 1>They find this wall basically attached to a bathroom and

0:44:10.480 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 1>they're like, this is this is supposed to be the

0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.480
<v Speaker 1>exterior wall of the house. Like, this isn't right. They

0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.319
<v Speaker 1>x ray it, they see a skeletal hand. They cut

0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:21.320
<v Speaker 1>open the wall and they find skull and bones sitting

0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:23.480
<v Speaker 1>in a pile of kitty litter to hide the scent.

0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:26.920
<v Speaker 2>This is one of my favorite SVU things, is like

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:28.120
<v Speaker 2>a body behind the wall.

0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and they do it a few times. Yeah. I

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:33.720
<v Speaker 3>do love when they fine. I like it.

0:44:33.440 --> 0:44:36.640
<v Speaker 1>It's fucked up, but I like it. It is interesting

0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:38.799
<v Speaker 1>because we both lived in New York. There's only so

0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:41.120
<v Speaker 1>many places you can hide a fucking body in New York.

0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:43.280
<v Speaker 1>We are not in Iowa, where we can go dump

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:45.480
<v Speaker 1>bury a body in a cornfield or the desert or

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.160
<v Speaker 1>any of that shit. Like, New York is a very

0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 1>densely populated, tight place. We don't have a lot of space.

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:53.640
<v Speaker 1>So if you want to try to get rid of

0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:56.400
<v Speaker 1>a body, it's like there's not that many options, you know,

0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Like people try throwing bodies in the river, but they

0:44:58.200 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 1>always float to the surface.

0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:00.520
<v Speaker 3>So if you want a body where you can keep

0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:02.640
<v Speaker 3>an eye on it, Allah.

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:06.919
<v Speaker 1>Dory and Corey in Fucking Uh Paris is Burning documentary.

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:11.880
<v Speaker 1>This drag performer who killed a john they believe, but

0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:14.760
<v Speaker 1>probably was attacked by the john and killed in self defense,

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:18.480
<v Speaker 1>kept the body in a trunk in her closet for

0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.439
<v Speaker 1>years until it mummified, and it was only found when

0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:22.440
<v Speaker 1>she when she died.

0:45:22.960 --> 0:45:26.239
<v Speaker 2>But this isn't because they're Party Monster, that movie with

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>mcaulay Culkin that's based on James Saint James and all

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:29.920
<v Speaker 2>this weird stuff.

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:33.319
<v Speaker 3>There was a body hidden. I don't know if that's

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:37.440
<v Speaker 3>the same story. No, but they killed like a random

0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:38.680
<v Speaker 3>person and kept him in a trunk.

0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:42.879
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, Okay, so I'm saying trunks walls, we got

0:45:42.880 --> 0:45:44.600
<v Speaker 1>to make We got to improvise in New York if

0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:45.880
<v Speaker 1>you're going to try to hide a body.

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:49.600
<v Speaker 3>And so I guess is the body? Where is the body?

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.560
<v Speaker 1>And I guess some people feel better knowing where bodies

0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:55.440
<v Speaker 1>are rather than just like ditching it and like living

0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:57.080
<v Speaker 1>with the paranoia of somebody finding it.

0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, and it's like the ultimate trophy too. Yeah, Like

0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 2>you're not even keeping a little bracelet. You're keeping right

0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:06.239
<v Speaker 2>if you're like a Sierra body.

0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:06.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:46:07.239 --> 0:46:10.040
<v Speaker 1>So this guy still has his wallet in his pants.

0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.759
<v Speaker 1>It's literally like bones in a pair of jeans, and

0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:13.880
<v Speaker 1>like he has a wallet.

0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I love the way you say bones. I can hear

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:17.640
<v Speaker 2>you say bones all day long.

0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, thank you.

0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:22.799
<v Speaker 1>So they pull out his bank card and it is

0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:26.160
<v Speaker 1>John Kramer. Okay, So now this whole picture is starting

0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:31.239
<v Speaker 1>to come together that Abraham killed this man to get

0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 1>to his wife and child. We find out also that

0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:36.799
<v Speaker 1>the wife her name is Cindy, So she goes by

0:46:36.840 --> 0:46:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Sarah in the cult, but her name is Cindy in

0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:43.080
<v Speaker 1>her before life. They show Sarah slash Cindy the wallet,

0:46:43.760 --> 0:46:46.239
<v Speaker 1>and they show her pictures of this dead body, this

0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>the bones. They tell her, this is your husband. He

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:52.200
<v Speaker 1>was shot in the back of the head and he

0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:54.840
<v Speaker 1>was buried in the wall of your house. And she's like,

0:46:55.000 --> 0:46:57.040
<v Speaker 1>this isn't true. He left us, he fell in love

0:46:57.040 --> 0:46:58.880
<v Speaker 1>with another woman. This is what Abraham told me. I

0:46:58.920 --> 0:46:59.680
<v Speaker 1>believe Abraham.

0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 3>And then Olivia's got the smoking gun.

0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:04.160
<v Speaker 1>She just sort of flicks a little baggy with a

0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:06.160
<v Speaker 1>wedding ring in it at her and goes, he was

0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:07.160
<v Speaker 1>wearing it when he died.

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:09.160
<v Speaker 3>So then the woman is really.

0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Starting to understand I've been completely fleeced and I've allowed

0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:15.160
<v Speaker 1>my daughter to be impregnated by a cult leader. So

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Olivia definitely lets her feel the guilt and says, where's Melanie.

0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:20.319
<v Speaker 1>He's going to take her money and then he's going

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:22.799
<v Speaker 1>to kill her when she has this baby. The lawyer's like,

0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:24.359
<v Speaker 1>what's in it for her? And the mom's just like,

0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:25.800
<v Speaker 1>she's up north in a warehouse.

0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:29.080
<v Speaker 3>What's in it for her? Not a dead daughter? Yes,

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:32.200
<v Speaker 3>so true.

0:47:32.880 --> 0:47:36.200
<v Speaker 1>So now we're at this warehouse, they find Melanie. She's

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:39.719
<v Speaker 1>in this little like storeroom on like a blow up

0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:43.160
<v Speaker 1>bed or whatever, and it's Benson and officers Remainno from

0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:47.439
<v Speaker 1>the earlier part of the episode. They go into the room.

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:49.279
<v Speaker 1>They're like, Melanie, we're here to get you out of here.

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:53.480
<v Speaker 1>And then he Abraham slashed Eugene comes back. They have

0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:56.719
<v Speaker 1>him up against the wall and he's encouraging Melanie like, see,

0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:58.239
<v Speaker 1>I told you they were going to come for us,

0:47:58.280 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Like you got to stop them, you got to stop them.

0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly she Officers Ormagno gets shot in the leg and

0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.880
<v Speaker 1>we wheel around and see that Melanie, this cute little

0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:09.840
<v Speaker 1>twelve year old girl with freckles, is like holding a

0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:11.759
<v Speaker 1>gun and she has just shot.

0:48:11.520 --> 0:48:12.399
<v Speaker 3>This cop in the leg.

0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, and this is kind of like a callback to

0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:18.880
<v Speaker 2>what happened in the house where it's like he obviously

0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:21.920
<v Speaker 2>makes women do the crime and all the work too, right,

0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:24.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's not going to get his fingerprints on

0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:27.000
<v Speaker 2>that gun. He'd rather give it to this pregnant twelve

0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:28.839
<v Speaker 2>year old, right, and he obviously gave it to her.

0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Earlier room was like if anyone comes in, shoot them

0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 2>and whatever.

0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 3>So he's busy.

0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if people run up to Jeffkober in the

0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:37.520
<v Speaker 2>streets and go, how dare you, like, I wonder if

0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:45.840
<v Speaker 2>people don't know well, so then more shades of fault

0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:49.439
<v Speaker 2>to me where there's that time there's that standoff where

0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:51.520
<v Speaker 2>it's like shoot him, Livia, Oh you gonn shoot me, Lyvia,

0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 2>what are you gonna do?

0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 4>You know?

0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 1>So there's that whole thing that happens here where both

0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Eugene slash Abraham and Olivia are screaming things at Melanie,

0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:01.480
<v Speaker 1>being like, I'm here to help you know, I'm your father,

0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm your husband, whatever. Like They're both going at it

0:49:05.960 --> 0:49:08.400
<v Speaker 1>like screaming at the same time and stressing around, and

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:10.000
<v Speaker 1>we're upping the tension and upping the tension.

0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 3>We don't know what's going to happen.

0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:15.759
<v Speaker 1>And Abraham says, they're afraid of me because I am

0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:18.000
<v Speaker 1>greater than man and I am greater than God, and

0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:20.040
<v Speaker 1>they're afraid of what I can do. And then in

0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:23.840
<v Speaker 1>that moment, a shot rings out and Abraham is shot

0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and Melanie has shot Abraham, and Benson goes to her.

0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:30.880
<v Speaker 1>They hug and she's Melanie's crying in her arms and

0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:32.719
<v Speaker 1>she's like, that was a lie. He said he was

0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:36.120
<v Speaker 1>greater than God, but nobody is. So in a way,

0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:37.480
<v Speaker 1>religion kind of saved.

0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:38.839
<v Speaker 3>The day here in a weird way.

0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:41.960
<v Speaker 1>And it's good that she's going to have that two

0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 1>million dollar trust fund to pay for her lifetime of therapy.

0:49:45.760 --> 0:49:48.719
<v Speaker 3>And that is the end of charisma.

0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much, Kara, and stay tuned for the real

0:49:55.200 --> 0:49:55.960
<v Speaker 2>life horrors.

0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:58.080
<v Speaker 3>As we say, get ready to get sad.

0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.960
<v Speaker 2>So this is based on the case of Marcus Wesson.

0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:18.799
<v Speaker 2>And of course, like there's vibes of Dave Koresh and

0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:22.400
<v Speaker 2>like Jim Jones and all that, but those are such giant,

0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.319
<v Speaker 2>well known cases that I thought I would focus on

0:50:25.400 --> 0:50:28.280
<v Speaker 2>them Marcus Wesson case, and it's like fully one hundred

0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:32.880
<v Speaker 2>percent unfortunately exactly what happened, Like it's since it's this

0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Sun's really sad.

0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 3>It is upsetting. It did take a lot out of me.

0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:39.959
<v Speaker 2>And the guy is super super scary and all the children.

0:50:39.640 --> 0:50:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Are very very cute, beautiful children.

0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:49.520
<v Speaker 2>So this case of Marcus Wesson is in Fresno, California,

0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:54.200
<v Speaker 2>and he has one of my worst qualities physic. I

0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:58.279
<v Speaker 2>hate matted dreads. Like, if you're gonna have dreads, take

0:50:58.280 --> 0:51:00.960
<v Speaker 2>care of that. I just like there's you know when

0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:03.960
<v Speaker 2>you just see one big clumped out dread with someone

0:51:04.000 --> 0:51:05.879
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, I don't want to be near you.

0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:08.720
<v Speaker 3>That's how you feel. I just really don't like dirty dreads.

0:51:08.760 --> 0:51:10.480
<v Speaker 3>So he has dirty dreads.

0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:14.600
<v Speaker 2>And Marcus is the leader of an ancestual cult founded

0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:17.360
<v Speaker 2>on the beliefs of vampires and that he was God.

0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:22.279
<v Speaker 2>So it's a very like vampire Christian situation because it's

0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 2>like Jesus gave up his blood and that's like what

0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:25.680
<v Speaker 2>vampires do.

0:51:25.960 --> 0:51:28.040
<v Speaker 3>So okay, it's pretty strange.

0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:32.760
<v Speaker 2>And they also could have been considered Seventh day Adventists

0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:36.200
<v Speaker 2>as well, but then it morphed into this weird vampire situation,

0:51:36.840 --> 0:51:40.839
<v Speaker 2>and the prosecutors described him as a domineering patriarch who

0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:45.560
<v Speaker 2>controlled his family with religious teachings and sexual abuse, so

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.600
<v Speaker 2>pretty close to the truth. He had a wife named

0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth who he met when she was eight years old,

0:51:54.520 --> 0:51:59.560
<v Speaker 2>so Elizabeth was his girlfriend's daughter. So like, he came

0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:01.960
<v Speaker 2>home from the army and he moved in with this

0:52:02.120 --> 0:52:04.640
<v Speaker 2>older woman named Rosemary Selario.

0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:08.880
<v Speaker 3>You're Italian? Is that son Italian? Yeah? Yeah, it could be.

0:52:09.680 --> 0:52:11.560
<v Speaker 3>It makes me want pizza, Okay, So.

0:52:13.040 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Rosemary Scelario is this older woman that he moved in

0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:18.759
<v Speaker 2>with when he came home from the army, and she

0:52:18.800 --> 0:52:22.200
<v Speaker 2>had several children from a previous relationship. She had a

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:26.359
<v Speaker 2>kid with Marcus, but then he strayed in onto this

0:52:26.400 --> 0:52:30.239
<v Speaker 2>eight year old daughter. So he basically said like she's

0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:32.480
<v Speaker 2>meant for me and you I own you, and that

0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:35.279
<v Speaker 2>was that, and the mom was like, okay, cool, but

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:38.040
<v Speaker 2>you can't get married till she's a teenager. And so

0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:41.640
<v Speaker 2>basically like let her boyfriend date her eight year old

0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:45.800
<v Speaker 2>daughter and they spoke. I've watched an interview with the

0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:48.759
<v Speaker 2>daughter as like a grown woman, and she was just like,

0:52:49.719 --> 0:52:53.040
<v Speaker 2>I believed everything he said and thought that the Lord

0:52:53.280 --> 0:52:57.000
<v Speaker 2>like picked me to be with him. So she felt

0:52:57.040 --> 0:53:00.520
<v Speaker 2>like special that she was chosen to be with this person,

0:53:00.680 --> 0:53:02.600
<v Speaker 2>even if like things sucked.

0:53:02.680 --> 0:53:04.759
<v Speaker 3>She was like, I'm so special. God shows me.

0:53:05.440 --> 0:53:09.040
<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen seventy four, when she was fourteen and

0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 2>he was twenty seven, they got married and that was

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the Mother of Rosemary's rule, like you have to wait

0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:18.960
<v Speaker 2>to get married, it's so fucking sick. She gave birth

0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.759
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth to eleven children with Wesson from the ages of

0:53:22.800 --> 0:53:26.040
<v Speaker 2>fourteen to twenty six. One died as an infant, but

0:53:26.280 --> 0:53:29.920
<v Speaker 2>she had like ten children with this man, and incest

0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:32.880
<v Speaker 2>was a big part of their religion and life in

0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:36.040
<v Speaker 2>quotes like he would say, one produces the seed of

0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>perfection of oneself, so legit, his children slash grandchildren have

0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 2>been had been fathered with his daughters and nieces, so

0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:51.600
<v Speaker 2>very ancestual cults. He also moved the family around a lot,

0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:55.040
<v Speaker 2>like they lived in tents, boats, shacks, trailers, a school

0:53:55.080 --> 0:53:59.239
<v Speaker 2>bus for a while, in various houses, and like you know,

0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:02.120
<v Speaker 2>when they lived on boat, no electricity or running water,

0:54:02.280 --> 0:54:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and he made the entire family live below decks so

0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:07.680
<v Speaker 2>no one would see him. For twelve years, they lived

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:11.160
<v Speaker 2>in an army tent and then finally purchased this old

0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.000
<v Speaker 2>office building and that's where they lived. And their life

0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:17.319
<v Speaker 2>was very much welfare food stamps. He made children go

0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:20.480
<v Speaker 2>dumpster diving while he ate fast food and did whatever

0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:23.000
<v Speaker 2>he wanted. When he was arrested, he was fifty seven

0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:26.160
<v Speaker 2>years old and weighed over three hundred pounds. So these

0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:30.600
<v Speaker 2>children are dumpster diving and on food stamps and barely

0:54:30.640 --> 0:54:33.360
<v Speaker 2>have enough food and he's just constantly eating.

0:54:33.120 --> 0:54:35.680
<v Speaker 3>Fast food all the time. Oh my god.

0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:39.839
<v Speaker 2>They did not go to school, obviously, he took care

0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:40.719
<v Speaker 2>of their education.

0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, safe to say he's a proponent of homeschooling.

0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I would get yeah, And his lessons were mostly Bible

0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:50.799
<v Speaker 2>studies that were based on the fact that he was

0:54:50.840 --> 0:54:54.640
<v Speaker 2>God and that Jesus Christ was a vampire, which could

0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 2>be a funny show.

0:54:55.760 --> 0:54:55.960
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:54:56.000 --> 0:55:00.279
<v Speaker 2>That's what sucks about all this Jesus Christ vampire is

0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:04.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty fun, but he didn't make it fun. And then

0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Sin's lessons that also sounds like a fun like pretzel school,

0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:12.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, like there's just lessons, ugh.

0:55:13.000 --> 0:55:14.520
<v Speaker 3>But not that fun of lessons.

0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 2>A lot of the lessons were just sexual technique, like

0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:19.719
<v Speaker 2>that was a big part of the girl's curriculum, was

0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:24.040
<v Speaker 2>learning sexual technique. And they were also in charge of

0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:27.320
<v Speaker 2>washing his dreads and like scratching his head and armpits

0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:31.279
<v Speaker 2>and stuff for him, like they had to take care

0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:36.040
<v Speaker 2>of him physically. Psychiatrist Edward Hallowell described the cult as

0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:39.960
<v Speaker 2>being run on fear as a tool for manipulation, and

0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:42.839
<v Speaker 2>this tactic forced the children to act against their own

0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:47.960
<v Speaker 2>self interest. Keeping the family together was the most important thing,

0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 2>and more important than life itself, was staying together as

0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:54.319
<v Speaker 2>a family, and he taught them that the police were

0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:58.080
<v Speaker 2>the devil in disguise and that suicide was an.

0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:01.759
<v Speaker 3>Okay way to escape them. This is upsetting.

0:56:02.200 --> 0:56:06.719
<v Speaker 2>He purchased caskets months before this mass murder, so he

0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:09.839
<v Speaker 2>had caskets ready for everyone in the house, like in

0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:13.520
<v Speaker 2>a room, because that's part of the lesson where it's

0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:16.560
<v Speaker 2>like death over separation. So it didn't seem like this

0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:18.839
<v Speaker 2>horrible thing. I don't know, but he had caskets ready

0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 2>for everybody. One of the boys, Sarafino explained, like the

0:56:24.320 --> 0:56:27.719
<v Speaker 2>life was terrible. He was one of the survivors, one

0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:31.279
<v Speaker 2>of the boys. But he said punishments would last up

0:56:31.320 --> 0:56:32.360
<v Speaker 2>to thirty days.

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:35.800
<v Speaker 3>It would be like, you know, sixty three hits a day.

0:56:35.680 --> 0:56:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Twenty one in the morning and then twenty one in

0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:40.400
<v Speaker 2>the afternoon, twenty one in the evening, for like days

0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 2>on end. And some of the girls in the house said,

0:56:43.080 --> 0:56:46.239
<v Speaker 2>like they would have to remind him of their punishments

0:56:46.280 --> 0:56:48.239
<v Speaker 2>because he would forget, so you would have to go

0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:50.279
<v Speaker 2>to him and be like, you forgot to whip me

0:56:50.400 --> 0:56:53.360
<v Speaker 2>today twenty one times, Like you had to constantly remind

0:56:53.400 --> 0:56:54.120
<v Speaker 2>him to beat you.

0:56:54.239 --> 0:56:57.000
<v Speaker 3>But that's how like Culty this really was.

0:56:57.440 --> 0:57:00.839
<v Speaker 2>And like Sarafino said, the punishment of getting beat thirty

0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:03.759
<v Speaker 2>days was because he stole a spoonful of peanut butter,

0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:07.799
<v Speaker 2>and that reminds me of Nix Marie brown Kis, where

0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:11.440
<v Speaker 2>it's like just such small things and such violent fucking

0:57:13.000 --> 0:57:17.640
<v Speaker 2>consequences and it's just really really sad. He would beat

0:57:17.680 --> 0:57:21.040
<v Speaker 2>them with Bat's electrical chords and like even worse stuff

0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:23.160
<v Speaker 2>that I really don't need to be mentioning, but you

0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:27.680
<v Speaker 2>can imagine it sucked, and like what sucks on top

0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:29.640
<v Speaker 2>of it all is the children didn't know any better.

0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:32.080
<v Speaker 2>They had no access to the outside world and were

0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.880
<v Speaker 2>born into the cult, so they didn't know what life

0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:38.600
<v Speaker 2>should have looked like. Keanie, one of the girls, said

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:41.080
<v Speaker 2>that Wesson started raping her at age a and she

0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:44.160
<v Speaker 2>thought it was okay, like that's all she knew. And

0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:46.600
<v Speaker 2>then but one of the kids, Gypsy, said she knew

0:57:46.640 --> 0:57:49.760
<v Speaker 2>it felt wrong. And when they were old enough to work,

0:57:49.800 --> 0:57:52.240
<v Speaker 2>they were expected to and they had to hand over

0:57:52.280 --> 0:57:55.320
<v Speaker 2>all of their wages to Marcus and he of course

0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.160
<v Speaker 2>refused to work and was on welfare, and then everyone

0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:00.880
<v Speaker 2>else when they hit the work the age of work,

0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:03.880
<v Speaker 2>had to go work. This guy had total control over

0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:07.680
<v Speaker 2>his family. Obviously, you guys get that. Even when they

0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:10.080
<v Speaker 2>were allowed to have jobs out of the house. Nobody

0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:13.680
<v Speaker 2>said anything to anybody. No one said anything to coworkers

0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:16.040
<v Speaker 2>or to the cops. And I mean they also just

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.720
<v Speaker 2>had such hatred for law enforcement. And like one of

0:58:20.000 --> 0:58:25.480
<v Speaker 2>his favorite celebrities David Koresh and he fucking loved David Koresh.

0:58:24.560 --> 0:58:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh surviving boys said that, like they would watch him

0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:31.080
<v Speaker 2>on TV and he'd be like, that's my brother, Like

0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:34.400
<v Speaker 2>that's like me and him. He had a fascination in

0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:38.080
<v Speaker 2>kinship with this fellow cult leader, and he thought they

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:40.480
<v Speaker 2>were both children for the Lord, and they both like

0:58:40.520 --> 0:58:42.960
<v Speaker 2>believed that they were both making children for the Lord,

0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and they both just had a lot of similarities and

0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:45.760
<v Speaker 2>he looked up to him.

0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:48.280
<v Speaker 3>He made a suicide pack that.

0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:50.640
<v Speaker 2>If any government official ever tried to take the kids

0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:53.600
<v Speaker 2>away or split up the family, that the mothers were

0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:57.320
<v Speaker 2>to kill their children and themselves, and held monthly meetings

0:58:57.320 --> 0:58:59.200
<v Speaker 2>to discuss the details of the plans.

0:58:59.200 --> 0:59:03.400
<v Speaker 3>So they had like five drills but for the suicide.

0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Pact, which in essence is just to like cover his

0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:08.720
<v Speaker 1>own tracks, really right, like, yeah, he doesn't believe this shit.

0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So he's basically just like we all if the cops

0:59:10.880 --> 0:59:13.200
<v Speaker 1>come in, we all have to die so that like

0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:14.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't get in trouble.

0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:18.040
<v Speaker 2>He's truly one of the scariest people I've ever seen.

0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:21.400
<v Speaker 2>We really we research a lot of horrific crimes, but

0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:23.480
<v Speaker 2>like when you look into his eyes, it's like a

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:26.000
<v Speaker 2>shark or a crocodile, Like there's nothing there.

0:59:26.080 --> 0:59:29.480
<v Speaker 3>It's really no soul in those eyes.

0:59:30.720 --> 0:59:36.440
<v Speaker 2>So what happened on this day of March twelfth, two

0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:40.480
<v Speaker 2>thousand and four is when everything came together.

0:59:40.800 --> 0:59:43.960
<v Speaker 1>And this is coincidentally, like months before this episode of

0:59:44.000 --> 0:59:46.680
<v Speaker 1>U S for You, So it's definitely based on this.

0:59:47.440 --> 0:59:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Yeah, So what happened on March in this

0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:56.000
<v Speaker 2>March twenty March two thousand and four was police officials

0:59:56.000 --> 0:59:58.360
<v Speaker 2>said that in the afternoon, the officers were called to

0:59:58.400 --> 1:00:01.439
<v Speaker 2>the house for a child custody to dispute. They say,

1:00:01.440 --> 1:00:04.200
<v Speaker 2>as they arrived, two women were outside the house and

1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:06.200
<v Speaker 2>they were there to pick up their kids, but Marcus

1:00:06.240 --> 1:00:08.680
<v Speaker 2>would not let them in. And these two women were

1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:11.960
<v Speaker 2>two nieces that ran away and then they returned to

1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:14.960
<v Speaker 2>take their babies with them. So that's Ruby or Tease

1:00:15.080 --> 1:00:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and Sophina Slario were the nieces that left and he

1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:22.160
<v Speaker 2>let them leave but said they had to leave their

1:00:22.200 --> 1:00:24.960
<v Speaker 2>own children behind, but they were so desperate to.

1:00:24.880 --> 1:00:26.080
<v Speaker 3>Get out of there. They agreed.

1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:29.360
<v Speaker 2>They realized that this isn't good, and like they were

1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:31.760
<v Speaker 2>not happy with their lives and they had to get

1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:32.280
<v Speaker 2>out of there.

1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:35.800
<v Speaker 3>And so then so they escaped, leaving their children behind.

1:00:36.080 --> 1:00:38.520
<v Speaker 2>But then once they got adjusted to the world outside

1:00:38.600 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 2>and started getting like they started to understand what he

1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:45.840
<v Speaker 2>had done to them and everything that they had been through,

1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:48.880
<v Speaker 2>and they got they were like, fuck, he's doing this

1:00:48.920 --> 1:00:49.960
<v Speaker 2>to the rest of our family.

1:00:50.000 --> 1:00:50.680
<v Speaker 3>We have to help.

1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:52.800
<v Speaker 2>So, like I said, March twelfth, two thousand and four,

1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:57.400
<v Speaker 2>they gathered several relatives for support and went back to

1:00:57.440 --> 1:01:00.640
<v Speaker 2>the home to rescue their children, and like I said,

1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:03.120
<v Speaker 2>refuse to let them in. And the rest of the

1:01:03.120 --> 1:01:06.680
<v Speaker 2>family was call like yelling at them Judas whoors commanding

1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:09.400
<v Speaker 2>them to bow down to your master. So everyone in

1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:12.920
<v Speaker 2>the home still fully like in his grip, and so

1:01:13.080 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>they're screaming horrific things at these women that are just

1:01:15.800 --> 1:01:18.120
<v Speaker 2>trying to save their children. And they were in a

1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.320
<v Speaker 2>really tough situation, like they couldn't get to their kids.

1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:24.160
<v Speaker 2>But then they also knew about the suicide packs. So

1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:26.600
<v Speaker 2>if the cops or authorities showed up. They knew what

1:01:26.640 --> 1:01:29.560
<v Speaker 2>could happen, So they're really in a fucked up situation

1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:31.840
<v Speaker 2>where they need help of authorities or like a greater

1:01:31.960 --> 1:01:34.720
<v Speaker 2>power to get these children, but like are scared of

1:01:34.760 --> 1:01:37.640
<v Speaker 2>the results. But also I can't I can't imagine what

1:01:37.680 --> 1:01:41.840
<v Speaker 2>these people are going. So when the police arrived, they

1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:44.360
<v Speaker 2>the women are trying to communicate to the cops like, no,

1:01:44.400 --> 1:01:47.240
<v Speaker 2>they're in danger. He will hurt these children, please help them,

1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:51.120
<v Speaker 2>And the cops didn't listen to the warnings and didn't

1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.800
<v Speaker 2>consider they had enough evidence to force enter the house.

1:01:55.120 --> 1:01:57.200
<v Speaker 2>So they arrive and these women are pleading with the

1:01:57.240 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 2>police officers like you need to enter the home and

1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:01.080
<v Speaker 2>get our children out of there.

1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:02.880
<v Speaker 3>They are in grave danger, and.

1:02:02.800 --> 1:02:05.840
<v Speaker 2>The cops were like, yo, we don't have enough evidence

1:02:05.880 --> 1:02:08.560
<v Speaker 2>for a warrant and didn't enter.

1:02:09.240 --> 1:02:10.240
<v Speaker 3>Wesson did meet the.

1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Police at the door and told them to like wait

1:02:12.520 --> 1:02:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and he'd be right back, and disappeared back into the house.

1:02:16.040 --> 1:02:18.200
<v Speaker 3>They allowed it at first.

1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Wesson, I guess told the officers that he would release

1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:24.520
<v Speaker 2>the children, but then instead ran into this bedroom and

1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:27.280
<v Speaker 2>locked the door and then shots rang out that the

1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:29.880
<v Speaker 2>cops deny they heard, even though.

1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:34.600
<v Speaker 3>Neighbors heard them. What so, oh my god.

1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:38.680
<v Speaker 2>When he appeared again, he was covered fully in blood

1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:42.240
<v Speaker 2>and nine of the children were dead. There was an

1:02:42.280 --> 1:02:47.080
<v Speaker 2>hour long standoff before he surrendered. When the officers entered

1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:49.120
<v Speaker 2>the home, they found a pile of bodies in one

1:02:49.200 --> 1:02:53.960
<v Speaker 2>room and ten coffins in different sizes like in another room. Good.

1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:57.680
<v Speaker 2>The victims were six females, three males, ranging from the

1:02:57.720 --> 1:03:01.880
<v Speaker 2>age of one to twenty four. Yeah, and they were

1:03:01.920 --> 1:03:05.040
<v Speaker 2>all related, and all the children were shot in the head.

1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:11.120
<v Speaker 2>It's awful, so police described. Wesson is very calm during

1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:14.480
<v Speaker 2>his arrest after emerging blood covered from his home, like

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:17.479
<v Speaker 2>just I guess he was chill as fuck. His bail

1:03:17.560 --> 1:03:20.919
<v Speaker 2>was set at nine million dollars. Wesson did not take

1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:24.200
<v Speaker 2>the stand at his trial, which is probably a good

1:03:24.280 --> 1:03:27.120
<v Speaker 2>choice by the defense, Like he's the scariest person ever.

1:03:28.920 --> 1:03:32.080
<v Speaker 2>And that trial started June two thousand and five. His

1:03:32.160 --> 1:03:34.800
<v Speaker 2>attorneys tried to say the kids killed themselves or the

1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:37.400
<v Speaker 2>older daughter did it, and it's like, go fuck yourself,

1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.080
<v Speaker 2>and nobody bought it. Even like we talked about in

1:03:41.080 --> 1:03:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the episode, like even if he didn't pull the trigger,

1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:46.040
<v Speaker 2>the fucker is guilty. Yeah, and he was found guilty

1:03:46.080 --> 1:03:48.439
<v Speaker 2>of nine counts of murder and fourteen counts of rape

1:03:48.440 --> 1:03:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and melestation. So on June twenty seventh, two thousand and five,

1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:54.000
<v Speaker 2>he was sentenced to one hundred and two years of

1:03:54.120 --> 1:03:57.320
<v Speaker 2>rape for rape and molestation charges, and then for the

1:03:57.440 --> 1:04:00.000
<v Speaker 2>murder of his children and grandchildren, he received the death

1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:06.040
<v Speaker 2>penalty and he's never eligible for parole. And then the

1:04:06.040 --> 1:04:09.320
<v Speaker 2>governor there's a memoriatorium or whatever on the death penalty

1:04:09.320 --> 1:04:12.560
<v Speaker 2>in California. So he's in San Quentin on death row

1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:15.960
<v Speaker 2>right now. But we don't know what will happen. But

1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:18.640
<v Speaker 2>I am against the death penalty, but I'm just like

1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:24.240
<v Speaker 2>light this motherfucker up. This is considered the worst mass

1:04:24.360 --> 1:04:27.480
<v Speaker 2>murder in Fresno history. And the cops who found the

1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:30.800
<v Speaker 2>pile of bodies were so traumatized they all had to

1:04:30.800 --> 1:04:33.520
<v Speaker 2>seek counseling. No stablers in the bunch. They were all

1:04:33.560 --> 1:04:38.720
<v Speaker 2>really fucking traumatized. And what is twisted is when he

1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:41.840
<v Speaker 2>was first arrested, a number of the indoctrinated kids were

1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:45.120
<v Speaker 2>defending him. Like one of the kids met with a

1:04:45.160 --> 1:04:49.200
<v Speaker 2>reporter and was like kept trying to clear his father's

1:04:49.360 --> 1:04:52.920
<v Speaker 2>name and saying that he's the best dad ever I

1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.640
<v Speaker 2>watched the footage of the kids like kind of crying

1:04:55.680 --> 1:04:57.480
<v Speaker 2>and being like, no, he's the best dad we could

1:04:57.480 --> 1:04:58.120
<v Speaker 2>have ever had.

1:04:58.240 --> 1:04:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Like they just truly.

1:05:00.280 --> 1:05:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Were fully brainwashed, and it took years of deprogramming and

1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:07.800
<v Speaker 2>separation from him that any of them finally realized what

1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:11.000
<v Speaker 2>they had all been through. And there's there are interviews

1:05:11.040 --> 1:05:15.520
<v Speaker 2>with like the children and they're really upset, like when

1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:17.840
<v Speaker 2>they're talking about it, even though they're out of it.

1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:20.640
<v Speaker 2>It was like kind of shame a little bit too.

1:05:20.680 --> 1:05:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Like one of the sons said, I believed he was

1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:26.160
<v Speaker 2>gone until I was nineteen years old, Like, you know,

1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:30.320
<v Speaker 2>I just can't imagine the way of all this. And

1:05:30.400 --> 1:05:32.920
<v Speaker 2>so I did find an update as of August twenty

1:05:33.040 --> 1:05:36.600
<v Speaker 2>twenty of where all the like niece's nephews and children are.

1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Three of his sons were finally able to say their

1:05:40.640 --> 1:05:45.520
<v Speaker 2>dad was a psychotic, narcissistic and a deluded person. And

1:05:45.560 --> 1:05:50.600
<v Speaker 2>then Alicia Sophios is a reporter who interviewed Sara Fino,

1:05:50.680 --> 1:05:53.240
<v Speaker 2>who's one of the sons, and she said she like

1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:55.760
<v Speaker 2>couldn't just sit and watch this, and she did break

1:05:55.840 --> 1:05:59.960
<v Speaker 2>journalism rules, and like, I guess there's a rule in journalism,

1:06:00.080 --> 1:06:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you cannot become part of the story. But she could

1:06:02.440 --> 1:06:05.240
<v Speaker 2>not just stand by and watch, so she invited three

1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:08.200
<v Speaker 2>of the women to live with her. So Elizabeth, Gipsy

1:06:08.240 --> 1:06:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and Keanna like they had never been to school, didn't

1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:14.760
<v Speaker 2>have any money, nothing, so she so the four women

1:06:14.800 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 2>lived in an apartment together. Gypsy and Keana all have

1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:21.760
<v Speaker 2>children of their own now. Sarah Fino, one of the sons,

1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:26.080
<v Speaker 2>is married and has three children, and Alicia Sophios wrote

1:06:26.080 --> 1:06:28.280
<v Speaker 2>a book about the family if you want to know more,

1:06:28.320 --> 1:06:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and it's called Where Hope Begins.

1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Damn, And that's kind of it. And it's just sad and.

1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:42.720
<v Speaker 2>It's scary to think like this could be happening to.

1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:43.439
<v Speaker 3>Someone right now.

1:06:44.000 --> 1:06:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not to leave everyone on a terrible, terrible note,

1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:50.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's just like off the grid, Like you said,

1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't even think it's only money about no electricity

1:06:53.080 --> 1:06:54.840
<v Speaker 2>in the episode are with him. It's also like you

1:06:54.840 --> 1:06:57.280
<v Speaker 2>can't trace them, you can't track it. You don't know

1:06:57.280 --> 1:07:02.360
<v Speaker 2>where who's there, how many people are living there, Like, yeah,

1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I just wonder.

1:07:03.080 --> 1:07:04.920
<v Speaker 1>What was going through his mind when he went into

1:07:05.000 --> 1:07:07.160
<v Speaker 1>that bedroom and killed all those kids, Because it's like,

1:07:07.160 --> 1:07:10.280
<v Speaker 1>if you're not going to get all of them, You're

1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:12.320
<v Speaker 1>still going to be implicated. And he didn't take his

1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:14.040
<v Speaker 1>own life, So it's like, what did you think was

1:07:14.080 --> 1:07:16.320
<v Speaker 1>gonna happen? The cops are at your front door? What

1:07:16.400 --> 1:07:19.120
<v Speaker 1>did you think was going to happen? Like, those kids

1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:22.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't have to die. No, it's just so I mean,

1:07:22.680 --> 1:07:24.200
<v Speaker 1>maybe he thought he was sending.

1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Them to heaven or whatever, if he believed his own religion. No,

1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I think he's just like an evil, evil person. Yeah,

1:07:32.080 --> 1:07:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I have no idea. And then I

1:07:36.280 --> 1:07:38.320
<v Speaker 2>was really shocked that we don't know more about this

1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:43.120
<v Speaker 2>case because it is so heinous and horrific and terrible.

1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:46.240
<v Speaker 2>But in the same area, during the same time, Scott

1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Peterson's trial was happening, and so because of that, that

1:07:50.800 --> 1:07:52.920
<v Speaker 2>case got so much attention, it seems like this one

1:07:53.000 --> 1:07:55.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of got swept under the rug. And this also

1:07:55.520 --> 1:08:00.920
<v Speaker 2>brings up what SVU covers a lot and hopefully this changes.

1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:05.439
<v Speaker 2>But these victims were black, and I just wonder if

1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:09.040
<v Speaker 2>this family being black kind of fucked with the news

1:08:09.080 --> 1:08:12.760
<v Speaker 2>coverage in media and attention that it got because Lacy

1:08:12.920 --> 1:08:15.440
<v Speaker 2>was like this all American, pregnant girl.

1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:16.240
<v Speaker 3>Beautiful white woman.

1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Oh my god, that makes it so sad

1:08:19.360 --> 1:08:21.439
<v Speaker 1>that like that. I'm so surprised. I don't know about

1:08:21.439 --> 1:08:23.280
<v Speaker 1>this case, and that's totally why.

1:08:23.439 --> 1:08:23.879
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a black family and so no one cared.

1:08:28.200 --> 1:08:30.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but it does seem like one of

1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the most horrific crimes I've ever looked at. So it

1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:38.240
<v Speaker 2>is shocking that it's not anywhere at all. It's a bummer,

1:08:38.320 --> 1:08:42.320
<v Speaker 2>but it sucks that this wasn't a bigger case because

1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:46.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe those the children could have gotten more funds or

1:08:46.640 --> 1:08:49.120
<v Speaker 2>support help, Like I don't know how much support they

1:08:49.160 --> 1:08:51.000
<v Speaker 2>had without this journalist. I'm going to have to read

1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:54.800
<v Speaker 2>this book if I can manage being sad for a

1:08:54.840 --> 1:08:55.320
<v Speaker 2>long time.

1:08:56.400 --> 1:09:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, we've done it, Charisma, we've done it. We made it.

1:09:01.120 --> 1:09:04.679
<v Speaker 3>Through and now we have a guest as always and it's.

1:09:04.600 --> 1:09:15.320
<v Speaker 1>A good one, all right, you guys. I am beyond

1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:18.599
<v Speaker 1>psyched for this interview because this is someone who has

1:09:18.680 --> 1:09:21.360
<v Speaker 1>truly haunted me in his work since I was a child,

1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:23.400
<v Speaker 1>and we talk about it in the interview. But you

1:09:23.439 --> 1:09:26.120
<v Speaker 1>guys might know him from shows like China Beach or

1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Sons of Anarchy. He's been on The Walking Dead and

1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:31.880
<v Speaker 1>a little movie called the first power that traumatized me

1:09:31.920 --> 1:09:34.679
<v Speaker 1>as a child. He was recently nominated for a Daytime

1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Emmy for his portrayal of Cyrus Renault on General Hospital,

1:09:38.800 --> 1:09:42.160
<v Speaker 1>But you guys know him as the terrifying Abraham. On

1:09:42.240 --> 1:09:45.120
<v Speaker 1>this week's episode of Charisma, check out our interview with

1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:46.120
<v Speaker 1>mister Jeff Kober.

1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:49.080
<v Speaker 2>This is one of our most requested episodes with all

1:09:49.120 --> 1:09:51.880
<v Speaker 2>of our listeners, and we kept denying them. We're like,

1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:55.200
<v Speaker 2>it's too scary, it's too sad, we refuse, and then

1:09:55.960 --> 1:09:59.000
<v Speaker 2>we're obviously when we found out we got to talk

1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:01.720
<v Speaker 2>to you. We had to do it. And do you

1:10:01.720 --> 1:10:03.160
<v Speaker 2>feel like our listeners need help?

1:10:04.320 --> 1:10:05.040
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely?

1:10:05.080 --> 1:10:09.120
<v Speaker 5>It's a horrifying episode and I just saw it for

1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:10.360
<v Speaker 5>the first time this week.

1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:12.639
<v Speaker 4>I had never watched it before.

1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:15.000
<v Speaker 2>And do you not watch any of your work or

1:10:15.040 --> 1:10:16.719
<v Speaker 2>just when you're playing someone really scary?

1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:19.479
<v Speaker 4>I don't watch a lot of my work.

1:10:19.840 --> 1:10:23.080
<v Speaker 5>Every once in a while, I do, but it's you know, hell,

1:10:23.200 --> 1:10:25.960
<v Speaker 5>could be watching yourself on video, your whole life, here's

1:10:26.000 --> 1:10:27.719
<v Speaker 5>your whole life on video, sit and watch.

1:10:29.760 --> 1:10:30.360
<v Speaker 4>But this one.

1:10:31.120 --> 1:10:33.760
<v Speaker 5>I sat down with my family to watch it, and

1:10:33.880 --> 1:10:37.599
<v Speaker 5>when I saw how horrifying this person was, I had

1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:38.400
<v Speaker 5>to leave the room.

1:10:38.640 --> 1:10:40.120
<v Speaker 4>It was too much.

1:10:40.520 --> 1:10:43.559
<v Speaker 3>Oh, so, how do you prep for a role like that?

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:44.840
<v Speaker 4>Well, I.

1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:53.360
<v Speaker 5>Learned something extraordinary on this job, which is the situation

1:10:54.240 --> 1:10:56.880
<v Speaker 5>adds the horror. I played it as a man of God.

1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:00.760
<v Speaker 5>I was really trying to be helpful to Rishka.

1:11:00.520 --> 1:11:02.640
<v Speaker 4>When I was. She was interviewing me, but I was

1:11:02.680 --> 1:11:05.920
<v Speaker 4>actually interviewing her. Yeah, and I thought that I was,

1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:06.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, I was.

1:11:06.920 --> 1:11:10.559
<v Speaker 5>I was speaking the words of Jesus and really trying

1:11:10.600 --> 1:11:13.360
<v Speaker 5>to help people out. Though there were how twenty four

1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:15.080
<v Speaker 5>children killed.

1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:18.719
<v Speaker 3>Something some a bad number of the children, for sure.

1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Do you think he's the worst character you've ever played

1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:25.280
<v Speaker 2>or have there been worse?

1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:31.560
<v Speaker 5>Let's see, Well I played I played a Richard Ramirez

1:11:31.640 --> 1:11:34.920
<v Speaker 5>type character in The First Power. Yes.

1:11:34.960 --> 1:11:36.720
<v Speaker 1>And if I could jump in here right now and

1:11:36.760 --> 1:11:38.760
<v Speaker 1>just say that that's a movie I saw you in

1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:41.920
<v Speaker 1>when I was ten years old, and I was truly

1:11:42.000 --> 1:11:44.520
<v Speaker 1>terrified by you for a very long time.

1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.599
<v Speaker 4>That was horrifying. That was that guy was sick.

1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.559
<v Speaker 3>And we talked to Lou Diamond Phillips about you. Also. Oh,

1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:55.320
<v Speaker 3>because we brought up that movie.

1:11:55.000 --> 1:11:58.240
<v Speaker 4>Lou, we had fun. It was good.

1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that movie is I think I was just like

1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:05.240
<v Speaker 1>it was on like HBO or something when I was ten,

1:12:05.360 --> 1:12:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and my brother and I thought we would be edgy

1:12:07.240 --> 1:12:10.040
<v Speaker 1>and watch it, and I just was like, I thought

1:12:10.040 --> 1:12:12.800
<v Speaker 1>you were so so scary in it. So you're You've

1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:14.840
<v Speaker 1>always been a great actor in my mind because you've

1:12:14.920 --> 1:12:18.840
<v Speaker 1>terrified me as a child, But now such a pleasure

1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:19.479
<v Speaker 1>to be talking to you.

1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:20.439
<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:25.080
<v Speaker 5>I actually we shot that while Richard Ramirez was on trial.

1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:29.760
<v Speaker 5>I actually went to his trial and that was extraordinary

1:12:29.840 --> 1:12:35.719
<v Speaker 5>because the banality of evil was so amazing. He was like, yeah,

1:12:35.760 --> 1:12:39.360
<v Speaker 5>they got me. Yeah, he had no conception of what

1:12:39.400 --> 1:12:40.120
<v Speaker 5>it was he'd done.

1:12:42.080 --> 1:12:44.960
<v Speaker 3>What was the vibe in that courtroom?

1:12:45.479 --> 1:12:46.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, it was.

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:49.800
<v Speaker 5>Courtrooms are a lot more boring than they are on

1:12:50.040 --> 1:12:53.439
<v Speaker 5>SPU and they were just going through a lot of

1:12:53.479 --> 1:12:56.200
<v Speaker 5>procedural stuff. But he every time the door opened, he

1:12:56.200 --> 1:12:58.639
<v Speaker 5>would spin around to see who walked into the room.

1:12:58.680 --> 1:13:01.040
<v Speaker 5>And one time he spun around and I was sitting

1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:03.479
<v Speaker 5>in the back row and our eyes locked for a moment,

1:13:03.920 --> 1:13:07.160
<v Speaker 5>and it was like something you'll never be able to unsee.

1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:09.479
<v Speaker 3>Could you tell his eyes?

1:13:09.520 --> 1:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I'd like, no soul, like wore his eyes different than

1:13:11.640 --> 1:13:12.720
<v Speaker 2>other people you look at.

1:13:13.000 --> 1:13:14.639
<v Speaker 4>Yes, there was no soul.

1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:19.679
<v Speaker 5>Soul was buried so deep in him that it had

1:13:19.720 --> 1:13:21.320
<v Speaker 5>never made it to his eyes.

1:13:21.640 --> 1:13:22.200
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

1:13:23.040 --> 1:13:26.439
<v Speaker 3>So did you you go to the trial to research

1:13:26.520 --> 1:13:27.440
<v Speaker 3>for the movie?

1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:28.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:13:28.280 --> 1:13:31.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I was very much into research at that time

1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:34.160
<v Speaker 5>in my life, and I overdid it on that movie.

1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:35.040
<v Speaker 4>I have to say.

1:13:36.360 --> 1:13:39.960
<v Speaker 5>We shot in a Catholic church on Sunset Boulevard and

1:13:40.800 --> 1:13:45.080
<v Speaker 5>they had me standing on the altar making you know,

1:13:45.280 --> 1:13:51.320
<v Speaker 5>a crucifix gesture and saying something about come and get me,

1:13:51.400 --> 1:13:54.720
<v Speaker 5>buddy boy or whatever. And the pre came along and

1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:56.640
<v Speaker 5>he hadn't been inside the church when we were in there.

1:13:56.680 --> 1:13:58.880
<v Speaker 5>He said, hope you're not doing anything to bring down

1:13:58.920 --> 1:14:01.200
<v Speaker 5>the wrath of God on us.

1:14:02.600 --> 1:14:06.000
<v Speaker 3>We were, Oh, no, that's so.

1:14:06.920 --> 1:14:10.479
<v Speaker 2>And so we've talked to Neil bar a couple times.

1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.240
<v Speaker 2>He's one of our regular FAV guests and we saw

1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:16.320
<v Speaker 2>that you guys work together in China Beach and was

1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:21.040
<v Speaker 2>this how you SVU came about? Was I'm assuming it

1:14:21.040 --> 1:14:24.960
<v Speaker 2>was an offer only? Like right, No, no, I read

1:14:25.000 --> 1:14:28.040
<v Speaker 2>for it. I think no way, I think so. Really,

1:14:28.680 --> 1:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>I think so.

1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:33.200
<v Speaker 4>You know what it's It's only was almost twenty years ago.

1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:35.839
<v Speaker 3>I know, I know it's okay if you don't remember something.

1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:41.160
<v Speaker 5>I don't even smoke pot anymore. I actually don't. It

1:14:41.240 --> 1:14:43.760
<v Speaker 5>might have been an offer, could have been.

1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:45.720
<v Speaker 1>We just were we were just putting that, we put

1:14:45.720 --> 1:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the pieces together. When we saw that you'd done China Beach,

1:14:48.000 --> 1:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>we thought maybe Neil Bear brought you in or something.

1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:53.600
<v Speaker 5>It's it's it's possible. I'd have to ask someone with

1:14:53.640 --> 1:14:55.479
<v Speaker 5>a better memory than than I.

1:14:55.840 --> 1:14:58.400
<v Speaker 3>We could ask Neil because he remembers everything.

1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and then one of the other shocking things besides

1:15:02.960 --> 1:15:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the murder in the episode is like a pregnant young child.

1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:09.920
<v Speaker 2>And so how was it like working with the kid

1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:11.360
<v Speaker 2>with the pregnant belly the gun?

1:15:11.400 --> 1:15:13.400
<v Speaker 3>You're evil? Like, what's that process?

1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:18.519
<v Speaker 5>Like? Well, again, you you have to play it like

1:15:18.600 --> 1:15:22.760
<v Speaker 5>it's a love story. And you know, people say she

1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:24.840
<v Speaker 5>was twelve, I'd say twelve and a half.

1:15:27.040 --> 1:15:28.719
<v Speaker 4>And again, God told.

1:15:28.520 --> 1:15:32.040
<v Speaker 5>Me to do it, so I it was she was

1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:35.360
<v Speaker 5>the right person for the job. You know, you have

1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:39.320
<v Speaker 5>to ignore the fact because this character was not horrified

1:15:39.400 --> 1:15:40.599
<v Speaker 5>by what he was doing.

1:15:40.520 --> 1:15:42.519
<v Speaker 4>Right, he was doing what he thought was right.

1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:46.839
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, she even says that in the in the interview,

1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:49.920
<v Speaker 5>she says, you know, the really sad thing is you've

1:15:49.960 --> 1:15:54.639
<v Speaker 5>bought your own height, you know, And so yeah, he was.

1:15:54.720 --> 1:15:56.439
<v Speaker 4>He was not just a scam artist.

1:15:56.479 --> 1:16:01.040
<v Speaker 5>He was a scam artist because, as God told him,

1:16:01.080 --> 1:16:02.000
<v Speaker 5>he needed money.

1:16:02.479 --> 1:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>That face that you make when she says that to

1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>you is like the best acting ever.

1:16:07.600 --> 1:16:10.080
<v Speaker 3>It was real. It was a great face.

1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:13.960
<v Speaker 4>I think she won an Emmy for that episode.

1:16:14.160 --> 1:16:14.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

1:16:14.880 --> 1:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I literally kept saying, did Maurshika get nominated for an

1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Emmy for this episode?

1:16:19.120 --> 1:16:21.320
<v Speaker 3>Because I just thought she was so great in that episode?

1:16:21.439 --> 1:16:25.639
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, yeah, and she you know, we talked because

1:16:25.680 --> 1:16:28.960
<v Speaker 5>I did my half of the interrogation first because of

1:16:29.439 --> 1:16:32.920
<v Speaker 5>just camera angles, and then we talked about what she

1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:33.320
<v Speaker 5>should do.

1:16:33.360 --> 1:16:36.240
<v Speaker 4>She said, I never get to do scenes like this.

1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:39.120
<v Speaker 5>I'm always just saying, you know, if you think of anything,

1:16:39.320 --> 1:16:43.519
<v Speaker 5>call me and hance people a card. And so to

1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:47.479
<v Speaker 5>have actual interaction back and forth with another actor was

1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:50.720
<v Speaker 5>just so exciting for her based on what she'd been

1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:51.840
<v Speaker 5>doing up to that point.

1:16:52.120 --> 1:16:53.320
<v Speaker 4>So we had a lot of fun.

1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:58.080
<v Speaker 2>There any other stories from the set and your experience

1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:00.719
<v Speaker 2>that you feel our listeners would be thrilled to hear about.

1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:04.760
<v Speaker 4>We shot that it was springtime in New York.

1:17:05.439 --> 1:17:09.840
<v Speaker 5>Everyone seemed to be very tired and wanted to go home.

1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:14.080
<v Speaker 4>Okay, And and they actually sent.

1:17:15.400 --> 1:17:19.280
<v Speaker 5>Iced Tea and uh and Chris Maloney they in the

1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:22.639
<v Speaker 5>in the story they get sent home or Ic decides

1:17:22.680 --> 1:17:23.080
<v Speaker 5>to go home.

1:17:23.120 --> 1:17:25.600
<v Speaker 4>We did a movie together too, Ic Tya and another.

1:17:25.320 --> 1:17:31.720
<v Speaker 3>One was it Girl or Yeah the Kangaroo. What did that?

1:17:32.000 --> 1:17:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Someone just sent us that. I remember seeing that and

1:17:34.280 --> 1:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I have to watch that. I can't wait to watch

1:17:36.360 --> 1:17:37.440
<v Speaker 2>him be at Kangaroo.

1:17:37.720 --> 1:17:40.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, both of us were kangaroos.

1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:45.479
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we'd all we all One

1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:48.160
<v Speaker 5>of the things about being a kangaroo was that we

1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:53.240
<v Speaker 5>remember we were engineered kangaroos, and you're able to remember

1:17:53.560 --> 1:17:56.880
<v Speaker 5>what your past life was. And and he was a

1:17:56.920 --> 1:17:59.559
<v Speaker 5>cop and I was a dog, but I was a

1:17:59.560 --> 1:18:01.479
<v Speaker 5>really good dog. So I got to move up to

1:18:01.680 --> 1:18:02.800
<v Speaker 5>kangaroo in this life.

1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:05.920
<v Speaker 3>And he was a bad guy, so he moved down

1:18:06.000 --> 1:18:06.680
<v Speaker 3>to kangaroo.

1:18:07.439 --> 1:18:08.040
<v Speaker 4>No, he was.

1:18:08.280 --> 1:18:10.720
<v Speaker 5>He was a cop and now he was which was

1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.280
<v Speaker 5>just funny because there was Iced Tea and cop Killer

1:18:13.320 --> 1:18:13.720
<v Speaker 5>and all that.

1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:17.640
<v Speaker 4>No, he was a good guy. We were heroes. We

1:18:17.640 --> 1:18:19.000
<v Speaker 4>were the hero kangaroos.

1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:20.120
<v Speaker 3>Wow did it?

1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:22.720
<v Speaker 2>And you guys you remembered each other on set? Did

1:18:22.760 --> 1:18:24.800
<v Speaker 2>you reminisce about your Kangaroo days.

1:18:24.840 --> 1:18:27.840
<v Speaker 5>Not much because we didn't actually act together. All my

1:18:27.920 --> 1:18:30.439
<v Speaker 5>stuff was with Marishka. You know, we said hello. I

1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:31.240
<v Speaker 5>think that was it.

1:18:31.560 --> 1:18:33.599
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember this scene where she jumps on your

1:18:33.640 --> 1:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>back when you're about to slit your own throat?

1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:41.040
<v Speaker 5>That was actually surprising to me. I didn't remember that

1:18:41.120 --> 1:18:45.439
<v Speaker 5>scene at all. I remember so much the stuff in

1:18:45.479 --> 1:18:49.719
<v Speaker 5>the interrogation scene and the scene where the little girl

1:18:49.760 --> 1:18:50.920
<v Speaker 5>shot me, and.

1:18:50.880 --> 1:18:53.000
<v Speaker 4>I remember one of the one of the takes on

1:18:53.040 --> 1:18:54.080
<v Speaker 4>that I don't know.

1:18:54.400 --> 1:18:56.800
<v Speaker 5>It was horrible, I think, but I called her a

1:18:56.880 --> 1:18:58.360
<v Speaker 5>little bitch for shooting me.

1:18:59.080 --> 1:19:03.440
<v Speaker 4>Bitch, all in good fun.

1:19:03.880 --> 1:19:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Of course.

1:19:04.240 --> 1:19:06.240
<v Speaker 2>So then when you're offset, do you have to be

1:19:06.320 --> 1:19:09.200
<v Speaker 2>like extra nice to her when you're not in action?

1:19:09.680 --> 1:19:11.519
<v Speaker 3>Like do people explain?

1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:13.120
<v Speaker 4>I had no, it was It was.

1:19:13.080 --> 1:19:16.120
<v Speaker 5>So interesting because I had no problem being nice in

1:19:16.280 --> 1:19:19.680
<v Speaker 5>that in that job, because I just didn't think of

1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:23.040
<v Speaker 5>myself as a bad guy. And in watching it, I

1:19:23.080 --> 1:19:26.879
<v Speaker 5>was a little horrified for the little girl. Oh my god,

1:19:27.120 --> 1:19:30.479
<v Speaker 5>what they put her through. I looked her up on IMDb.

1:19:30.640 --> 1:19:34.120
<v Speaker 5>I don't think she's worked since two thousand and six

1:19:34.240 --> 1:19:34.679
<v Speaker 5>or something.

1:19:35.439 --> 1:19:37.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a lot of the kids in the show, sometimes

1:19:37.640 --> 1:19:39.240
<v Speaker 1>like either are so good, and then we look them

1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:42.640
<v Speaker 1>up and they've quit acting, and we're like, what a waste.

1:19:43.400 --> 1:19:46.599
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask, like, do you I mean, did

1:19:46.720 --> 1:19:48.320
<v Speaker 1>I know this came out a while ago, but like,

1:19:48.360 --> 1:19:50.280
<v Speaker 1>do you ever get recognized for this role or for

1:19:50.360 --> 1:19:53.400
<v Speaker 1>like other roles where you play like these terrifying characters.

1:19:53.840 --> 1:19:54.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:19:54.439 --> 1:19:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Because I was going to say, I when

1:19:59.000 --> 1:20:01.479
<v Speaker 1>we were obviously researched sing you for this. I watched

1:20:01.720 --> 1:20:04.439
<v Speaker 1>all the seasons of Sons of Anarchy. I've seen every

1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.760
<v Speaker 1>episode of Sense of Anarchy. I did not clock that

1:20:06.800 --> 1:20:09.600
<v Speaker 1>you were that character because you just are like not

1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:13.680
<v Speaker 1>You're not like evil in that show. No bad, You're

1:20:13.760 --> 1:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>just like a bad You're a regular bad guy. You're

1:20:16.040 --> 1:20:19.360
<v Speaker 1>not as terrifying. You're more politically a politician bad right.

1:20:19.479 --> 1:20:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, so it's just fun, I mean you, but

1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:25.719
<v Speaker 1>it speaks to your you know, ability as an actor

1:20:25.800 --> 1:20:27.719
<v Speaker 1>to go in and out of these different roles, because

1:20:28.160 --> 1:20:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I thought maybe you just played like terrifying, creepy roles,

1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:33.160
<v Speaker 1>but you really do many other things.

1:20:33.600 --> 1:20:39.360
<v Speaker 4>Oh thank you, not just not.

1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Just totally not just not just the guy who scared

1:20:41.760 --> 1:20:42.880
<v Speaker 1>me to when I was ten.

1:20:43.479 --> 1:20:46.320
<v Speaker 5>Now, the one thing personally that was going on for

1:20:46.439 --> 1:20:50.479
<v Speaker 5>me at that time was I had just learned how

1:20:50.479 --> 1:20:53.640
<v Speaker 5>to properly meditate a couple of months before we shot that,

1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:59.720
<v Speaker 5>and that was really helpful in terms of letting it go,

1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:04.240
<v Speaker 5>you know when when I was offset and I remember

1:21:04.280 --> 1:21:07.280
<v Speaker 5>it was a beautiful springtime in New York and uh

1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:09.600
<v Speaker 5>like meditating in Union.

1:21:09.360 --> 1:21:12.639
<v Speaker 4>Square Park and uh, just just.

1:21:13.720 --> 1:21:17.320
<v Speaker 5>Being present in a way that I hadn't hadn't been before.

1:21:17.880 --> 1:21:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, are you still a meditator?

1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:21.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? I teach meditation now.

1:21:22.200 --> 1:21:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Wow wow right you love it?

1:21:24.760 --> 1:21:26.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Well, it just did.

1:21:26.800 --> 1:21:29.800
<v Speaker 5>It did transform my life, so I kind of ended

1:21:29.880 --> 1:21:32.800
<v Speaker 5>up having to, you know, be able to offer it

1:21:32.800 --> 1:21:33.560
<v Speaker 5>to others.

1:21:34.000 --> 1:21:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Amazing.

1:21:35.560 --> 1:21:39.759
<v Speaker 2>We also saw that you are like a horse guy, Yeah,

1:21:39.960 --> 1:21:41.120
<v Speaker 2>rancher nature.

1:21:41.840 --> 1:21:44.080
<v Speaker 4>Uh well, I I was raised on a farm.

1:21:44.479 --> 1:21:48.080
<v Speaker 5>Uh so I I and I've had some horse experience.

1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:50.160
<v Speaker 5>I wrote a lot with a friend here in la

1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 5>and Chloe Webb and I have written a lot together.

1:21:54.320 --> 1:21:56.679
<v Speaker 5>She was on China Beach with Me. You remember Chloe

1:21:56.720 --> 1:22:00.439
<v Speaker 5>from Sid and Nancy And she was also on Aimless.

1:22:00.479 --> 1:22:02.360
<v Speaker 4>She played the ex wife.

1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:05.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, I love Yes, I love shameless.

1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:06.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Did you go back to those roots during.

1:22:09.439 --> 1:22:12.799
<v Speaker 2>COVID times like did you go back to Montana or anything?

1:22:12.840 --> 1:22:14.240
<v Speaker 3>Were you in La No?

1:22:14.360 --> 1:22:15.679
<v Speaker 4>I stayed in La Yeah.

1:22:16.960 --> 1:22:20.320
<v Speaker 5>Montana is kind of uh, it's a place to visit,

1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:23.120
<v Speaker 5>but not to stay understood.

1:22:23.320 --> 1:22:25.599
<v Speaker 2>And then again, I know this is a long time ago,

1:22:25.800 --> 1:22:27.880
<v Speaker 2>but going back to the scene in the bank with

1:22:27.960 --> 1:22:31.240
<v Speaker 2>the knife, curious about special effect? What was that made

1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:35.040
<v Speaker 2>out of? What do like, what are the fake knives

1:22:35.040 --> 1:22:36.320
<v Speaker 2>made out of rubber?

1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:37.599
<v Speaker 3>They are rubber?

1:22:37.840 --> 1:22:38.479
<v Speaker 4>They are rubber.

1:22:38.560 --> 1:22:41.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And then sometimes you'll just have one that is

1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:43.680
<v Speaker 5>really dull, but like in a scene like that where

1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:46.920
<v Speaker 5>you're going to get tackled, it's almost always a rubber

1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:49.600
<v Speaker 5>so that you don't hurt yourself.

1:22:49.360 --> 1:22:51.439
<v Speaker 3>Or that Marishka Harget doesn't hurt you.

1:22:51.800 --> 1:22:56.479
<v Speaker 4>Right because she's taught. How many episodes have they.

1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Done, like for it just they just wrapped the twenty

1:22:59.680 --> 1:23:02.080
<v Speaker 1>second season and I believe it was around the five

1:23:02.200 --> 1:23:03.280
<v Speaker 1>hundredth episode.

1:23:04.200 --> 1:23:07.439
<v Speaker 3>So it's like nuts, so many episodes.

1:23:07.040 --> 1:23:08.080
<v Speaker 4>So many episodes.

1:23:08.960 --> 1:23:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you're one of the most heinous of twenty

1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:12.200
<v Speaker 2>two seasons.

1:23:13.560 --> 1:23:15.520
<v Speaker 3>You're one of the scariest episodes.

1:23:16.640 --> 1:23:18.840
<v Speaker 4>That's well, that's that's something right.

1:23:19.040 --> 1:23:21.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Well, if you were to come back to SVU,

1:23:21.800 --> 1:23:23.960
<v Speaker 2>they love to bring people back. What would kind of

1:23:24.000 --> 1:23:25.680
<v Speaker 2>be what would you love to be?

1:23:27.000 --> 1:23:30.479
<v Speaker 5>I would like to be a man of God, you know,

1:23:30.520 --> 1:23:33.639
<v Speaker 5>some kind of a preacher who is not quite as creepy.

1:23:34.000 --> 1:23:36.439
<v Speaker 3>Well, you did play something like that in Bosh too.

1:23:37.400 --> 1:23:38.800
<v Speaker 4>I did, but he was creepy.

1:23:39.160 --> 1:23:41.960
<v Speaker 3>You come on, I'm telling you.

1:23:42.360 --> 1:23:43.880
<v Speaker 4>He was a creepy man of God.

1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:45.840
<v Speaker 1>But then you weren't the killer. But you weren't the

1:23:45.840 --> 1:23:47.439
<v Speaker 1>bad guy even though you were creepy.

1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:48.599
<v Speaker 4>I was the red hairring.

1:23:48.800 --> 1:23:51.960
<v Speaker 3>You were the red herring. Yeah, Kara loves Bosh. I

1:23:52.000 --> 1:23:54.160
<v Speaker 3>love Bosh. She talks about it all the time.

1:23:54.479 --> 1:23:56.679
<v Speaker 4>I taught Titus out to meditate.

1:23:56.960 --> 1:23:59.479
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, well he's an svulum too.

1:24:00.120 --> 1:24:01.120
<v Speaker 4>Oh all right.

1:24:01.439 --> 1:24:04.280
<v Speaker 5>We did a movie together too that c. Thomas Howell directed.

1:24:05.720 --> 1:24:09.240
<v Speaker 5>I killed him on a It was on a table saw.

1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:12.160
<v Speaker 5>I leaned him over a table saw and then turned

1:24:12.200 --> 1:24:14.559
<v Speaker 5>it on. I kissed him as I was turning it on,

1:24:14.760 --> 1:24:19.920
<v Speaker 5>and then sort of I don't remember.

1:24:20.280 --> 1:24:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'll be checking your IMDb.

1:24:22.439 --> 1:24:23.479
<v Speaker 4>I'll have to look it up.

1:24:24.560 --> 1:24:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, how did you get into acting? Like growing up

1:24:27.640 --> 1:24:31.040
<v Speaker 2>on a ranch farm style? What was the moment?

1:24:33.160 --> 1:24:38.880
<v Speaker 5>I followed a woman from college down to LA and

1:24:39.720 --> 1:24:42.680
<v Speaker 5>that relationship broke up at about the same time that

1:24:42.800 --> 1:24:45.240
<v Speaker 5>a band I was in broke up, and I was

1:24:45.280 --> 1:24:49.320
<v Speaker 5>working in my first and only ever office job for

1:24:49.520 --> 1:24:50.559
<v Speaker 5>Getty Oil Company.

1:24:50.600 --> 1:24:52.160
<v Speaker 4>I was a temporary paralegal.

1:24:52.720 --> 1:24:56.919
<v Speaker 5>And I remember that being in college, going to classes

1:24:57.000 --> 1:24:59.880
<v Speaker 5>made sense. You like, studied something, you took a test,

1:25:00.080 --> 1:25:03.200
<v Speaker 5>You knew who you were, at least within those parameters.

1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:06.000
<v Speaker 4>And I was completely lost. And I thought, I need

1:25:06.040 --> 1:25:06.839
<v Speaker 4>to go to a class.

1:25:06.880 --> 1:25:09.080
<v Speaker 5>And one of the women that I was working with said,

1:25:09.400 --> 1:25:10.719
<v Speaker 5>I go to this acting class.

1:25:10.760 --> 1:25:11.880
<v Speaker 4>I think you really like it.

1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:14.439
<v Speaker 5>And so I went to an acting class and it

1:25:14.560 --> 1:25:18.559
<v Speaker 5>was you know, I was this big emotional mess and

1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:21.879
<v Speaker 5>there are people going on stage and being big emotional messes.

1:25:22.280 --> 1:25:26.639
<v Speaker 5>And I went, oh god, I'm home and and that's

1:25:26.720 --> 1:25:27.759
<v Speaker 5>that's where it started.

1:25:28.360 --> 1:25:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Wow, well, thank god that girlfriend broke up with you, right, Yeah.

1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:37.160
<v Speaker 5>She she I don't I don't know what happened to her.

1:25:39.240 --> 1:25:41.760
<v Speaker 3>So were you? I bet Kara was a Yeah.

1:25:41.800 --> 1:25:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I was speaking of girlfriends and and and you know,

1:25:45.240 --> 1:25:47.479
<v Speaker 1>I we read that you and your wife co authored

1:25:47.520 --> 1:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>a book about called The Art that Pays The Emerging

1:25:50.280 --> 1:25:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Artist Guide to Making a Living.

1:25:52.000 --> 1:25:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we want to know what the tips are

1:25:54.120 --> 1:25:58.040
<v Speaker 3>we are the tips? We're artists, we're emerging. What's our tips?

1:25:58.040 --> 1:25:58.880
<v Speaker 3>How do we make money?

1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:01.800
<v Speaker 4>Which you love? You're doing it?

1:26:02.360 --> 1:26:02.800
<v Speaker 5>This is it?

1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:03.920
<v Speaker 4>Just keep doing? You know?

1:26:03.960 --> 1:26:10.040
<v Speaker 5>I act, I teach meditation, I write and take I

1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:12.920
<v Speaker 5>do tin type photography. These are all things that I

1:26:13.000 --> 1:26:16.880
<v Speaker 5>do for free, and somehow I'm able to make a

1:26:16.920 --> 1:26:21.360
<v Speaker 5>living by doing those things. And I do it because

1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:25.920
<v Speaker 5>I've been just absolutely incapable of working for anyone else.

1:26:26.000 --> 1:26:28.519
<v Speaker 5>I get fired from every job I have, you know,

1:26:28.760 --> 1:26:31.479
<v Speaker 5>so that's a gift because I've had to do well.

1:26:31.479 --> 1:26:34.679
<v Speaker 5>If I'm going to not be able to do anything else,

1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:35.840
<v Speaker 5>I might as well do what I love.

1:26:35.960 --> 1:26:38.360
<v Speaker 4>And somehow I've been able to make a living at it.

1:26:38.520 --> 1:26:41.120
<v Speaker 3>And they don't fire you from acting jobs.

1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:43.880
<v Speaker 5>That's never had No. I got fired from a play

1:26:45.080 --> 1:26:52.080
<v Speaker 5>in Williamstown because the writer of the play wanted to

1:26:52.120 --> 1:26:52.719
<v Speaker 5>do the role.

1:26:53.280 --> 1:26:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, so he just got you booted.

1:26:55.400 --> 1:26:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah wow, I'd like the listeners to know I rolled

1:26:58.640 --> 1:27:00.479
<v Speaker 2>my eyes is.

1:27:03.240 --> 1:27:08.240
<v Speaker 3>Beyond? Do you still do theater? Y?

1:27:08.320 --> 1:27:08.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:27:08.680 --> 1:27:11.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, when I when I can, when when they let me,

1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:12.080
<v Speaker 5>when it's good?

1:27:12.640 --> 1:27:14.599
<v Speaker 3>And what are you writing? What do you like to write?

1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:18.479
<v Speaker 5>I hate to admit it, but I'm actually about finished

1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:19.160
<v Speaker 5>with a memoir.

1:27:19.600 --> 1:27:21.439
<v Speaker 3>Why do you want not want to admit that?

1:27:22.360 --> 1:27:27.559
<v Speaker 5>Well, because it's I I loath the memoir. I don't

1:27:27.400 --> 1:27:30.240
<v Speaker 5>want I don't want to read someone talking about themselves,

1:27:30.439 --> 1:27:32.759
<v Speaker 5>and you know we have so much of that in life,

1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:34.200
<v Speaker 5>like to have to read it too.

1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:38.040
<v Speaker 4>But if I've you know, I I have a story

1:27:38.080 --> 1:27:40.400
<v Speaker 4>to tell and it turns out that that's the way

1:27:40.439 --> 1:27:41.920
<v Speaker 4>that the story wants to be told.

1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:44.639
<v Speaker 3>So cool, that's all thrilling.

1:27:45.360 --> 1:27:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Would you like, is there anything that is coming out

1:27:49.040 --> 1:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>or you're working on that you would like people to

1:27:51.439 --> 1:27:51.880
<v Speaker 2>know about?

1:27:52.920 --> 1:27:53.160
<v Speaker 4>Well?

1:27:53.240 --> 1:27:57.200
<v Speaker 5>I uh, I wrote a movie that is out. They

1:27:57.240 --> 1:28:00.439
<v Speaker 5>can watch it on I believe it's on Amazon and

1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:06.920
<v Speaker 5>Apple is called Lie Exposed, with Leslie Hope and Bruce Greenwood.

1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:12.320
<v Speaker 5>It's about a woman who's is based on a play

1:28:12.320 --> 1:28:18.040
<v Speaker 5>that I wrote about people coming home from an art show,

1:28:18.400 --> 1:28:20.479
<v Speaker 5>and the art show turns out to have been a

1:28:20.560 --> 1:28:27.000
<v Speaker 5>series of images of woman's private parts, and it turns

1:28:27.040 --> 1:28:31.360
<v Speaker 5>out that she's dying of ovarian cancer, and she hooks

1:28:31.439 --> 1:28:34.600
<v Speaker 5>up with this artist who takes pictures of her and

1:28:35.120 --> 1:28:38.720
<v Speaker 5>she ends up putting on a show of it. It's

1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:42.080
<v Speaker 5>a very strange. Yeah, I don't know where it came from.

1:28:42.400 --> 1:28:45.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, where did the inspiration come from? You have no clue.

1:28:45.320 --> 1:28:48.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, I was writing a screenplay with a friend and

1:28:48.360 --> 1:28:51.439
<v Speaker 5>we had to have a scene of two actors working

1:28:51.479 --> 1:28:56.679
<v Speaker 5>in this screenplay on a play, and I'd never written

1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:58.800
<v Speaker 5>a play, So I wrote a scene of these two

1:28:58.800 --> 1:29:01.559
<v Speaker 5>people coming home from a show where they were arguing

1:29:01.600 --> 1:29:04.439
<v Speaker 5>whether it was art or pornography. And I was teaching

1:29:04.479 --> 1:29:07.160
<v Speaker 5>acting at the time, and I had my actors work

1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:09.479
<v Speaker 5>on this scene so I could hear it out loud

1:29:09.520 --> 1:29:14.360
<v Speaker 5>and make it better, and they said, this is great.

1:29:14.560 --> 1:29:17.240
<v Speaker 5>Are there any other scenes? And I said, well, there

1:29:17.280 --> 1:29:19.000
<v Speaker 5>must be other people who went to the same show.

1:29:19.080 --> 1:29:22.960
<v Speaker 5>So I started writing all these people coming home from

1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:23.679
<v Speaker 5>this art show.

1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:27.480
<v Speaker 4>And in the play you don't have to see the images.

1:29:27.600 --> 1:29:28.719
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you know it's.

1:29:29.640 --> 1:29:33.880
<v Speaker 5>But then Leslie Hope wanted to use it as her

1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:37.880
<v Speaker 5>swan song to acting. She's gonna she's directing now, and

1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:42.280
<v Speaker 5>so we turned it into a screenplay. And in the

1:29:42.280 --> 1:29:45.600
<v Speaker 5>screenplay you can't talk about these kind of images the

1:29:45.640 --> 1:29:48.280
<v Speaker 5>whole time, and they never see them. So I had

1:29:48.320 --> 1:29:53.639
<v Speaker 5>to then take images ten type images of a friend,

1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:59.360
<v Speaker 5>intimate intimate images a friend, Yeah, a very good friend.

1:29:59.640 --> 1:30:03.240
<v Speaker 4>Who's who who really.

1:30:03.439 --> 1:30:05.559
<v Speaker 5>Went above and beyond to like show up because it

1:30:05.640 --> 1:30:08.559
<v Speaker 5>was hours of shots and trying to make something not

1:30:08.640 --> 1:30:14.960
<v Speaker 5>look pornographic though it's exposing humans intimacy.

1:30:16.320 --> 1:30:18.360
<v Speaker 4>It was a challenge, but a fun one.

1:30:18.760 --> 1:30:19.400
<v Speaker 3>That's cool.

1:30:19.439 --> 1:30:24.400
<v Speaker 2>I want to watch it, okay, exposed. All right, I'm

1:30:24.439 --> 1:30:26.920
<v Speaker 2>so glad you're No. We knew you weren't going to

1:30:26.960 --> 1:30:32.760
<v Speaker 2>be evil, but I definitely you know, it's nice to

1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:35.479
<v Speaker 2>learn about the meditation and writing, and you just seem

1:30:35.520 --> 1:30:37.480
<v Speaker 2>like you're creatively, very fulfilled.

1:30:38.040 --> 1:30:39.120
<v Speaker 4>I have a great life.

1:30:39.360 --> 1:30:42.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you know, I'm always doing something fun, always doing

1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:47.640
<v Speaker 5>something creative. Uh, and I get paid for it. You know,

1:30:47.720 --> 1:30:50.320
<v Speaker 5>this this general hospital thing. I'd never done soap oppers,

1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:53.960
<v Speaker 5>but they hired me just before COVID happened, and then

1:30:54.040 --> 1:30:58.919
<v Speaker 5>we started working sooner than just about anyone during COVID,

1:30:59.360 --> 1:31:03.000
<v Speaker 5>and so that kept me, you know, fed amazing the

1:31:03.040 --> 1:31:03.800
<v Speaker 5>last year and a half.

1:31:03.880 --> 1:31:04.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:31:04.400 --> 1:31:06.719
<v Speaker 1>I used to watch gh as A as a young

1:31:06.760 --> 1:31:09.320
<v Speaker 1>person as well. And are Luke and Laura still there

1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:10.800
<v Speaker 1>or what's.

1:31:10.560 --> 1:31:14.799
<v Speaker 5>Laura is actually the mayor of Port Charles, Oh my god.

1:31:15.760 --> 1:31:18.360
<v Speaker 5>And as it turns out, she is my half sister,

1:31:19.040 --> 1:31:21.040
<v Speaker 5>so we had a lot of work to do together.

1:31:21.200 --> 1:31:22.080
<v Speaker 4>It was a lot of fun.

1:31:22.360 --> 1:31:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Now is your character.

1:31:23.600 --> 1:31:25.799
<v Speaker 2>I think your character's name is Cyrus, which I always

1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:28.439
<v Speaker 2>feel like it is a bad guy name, and so

1:31:29.240 --> 1:31:30.600
<v Speaker 2>you're a bad guy, okay.

1:31:30.439 --> 1:31:31.519
<v Speaker 4>Really so bad.

1:31:32.000 --> 1:31:34.960
<v Speaker 5>If you read the Twitter feed from when my character

1:31:34.960 --> 1:31:39.000
<v Speaker 5>first came on, it was like, who is his bastard?

1:31:39.080 --> 1:31:42.320
<v Speaker 4>Get rid of him? He should die. Cyrus needs to die.

1:31:43.160 --> 1:31:45.519
<v Speaker 4>They're so intensely.

1:31:46.200 --> 1:31:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Want though from soap opera characters. I think, well, yeah,

1:31:49.760 --> 1:31:51.639
<v Speaker 1>the bad guy in Conne is Cyrus.

1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And she Kara's never seen it. I need her to

1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:55.519
<v Speaker 2>see conn Air. Have you seen conn Air?

1:31:55.960 --> 1:31:56.080
<v Speaker 1>No?

1:31:56.120 --> 1:31:57.080
<v Speaker 4>I didn't see conn Air.

1:31:57.479 --> 1:32:02.320
<v Speaker 2>It's one of my favorites. It's yeah, CON's on a plane.

1:32:02.400 --> 1:32:02.960
<v Speaker 3>I loved it.

1:32:03.520 --> 1:32:06.240
<v Speaker 4>Do you have any con phals?

1:32:06.880 --> 1:32:10.280
<v Speaker 3>No, we've never written anyone in jail? I have it.

1:32:10.400 --> 1:32:11.320
<v Speaker 3>I speak for myself.

1:32:11.400 --> 1:32:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Lisa, No, I haven't, and it is really tough. So

1:32:14.840 --> 1:32:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you know. But part of this

1:32:16.040 --> 1:32:18.839
<v Speaker 2>podcast we then research the real crimes that the episodes

1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:22.120
<v Speaker 2>are based on, and this one took a lot out

1:32:22.160 --> 1:32:24.759
<v Speaker 2>of me. I was my turn to research the crime,

1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:28.360
<v Speaker 2>and we just we researched really awful things.

1:32:28.439 --> 1:32:29.160
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know.

1:32:29.120 --> 1:32:32.519
<v Speaker 2>If I can, I don't know, But your character is

1:32:32.560 --> 1:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>based on a guy who truly did do like something

1:32:36.000 --> 1:32:36.840
<v Speaker 2>exactly like this.

1:32:36.920 --> 1:32:41.120
<v Speaker 3>Like the episode's very closely based. So it's like, yeah,

1:32:41.200 --> 1:32:41.559
<v Speaker 3>there's a.

1:32:41.520 --> 1:32:44.519
<v Speaker 1>True crime you know, there's a true crime addiction happening

1:32:44.520 --> 1:32:45.479
<v Speaker 1>in this country right now.

1:32:45.479 --> 1:32:46.559
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you know about it.

1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:48.240
<v Speaker 4>What do you think that's about? What?

1:32:48.880 --> 1:32:50.040
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I don't know.

1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:52.800
<v Speaker 1>But and it's a lot it's it's very female too,

1:32:52.960 --> 1:32:54.880
<v Speaker 1>like I mean, it's not it doesn't exclude men, but

1:32:54.920 --> 1:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>it's very like women make up the majority I think

1:32:57.400 --> 1:32:59.000
<v Speaker 1>of true crime consumers.

1:32:59.800 --> 1:33:01.439
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know if it's like we're all scared

1:33:01.439 --> 1:33:03.000
<v Speaker 3>we're going to get murdered, I don't know what it is.

1:33:03.240 --> 1:33:05.960
<v Speaker 5>Do you think it's because people are frightened and they

1:33:06.000 --> 1:33:08.720
<v Speaker 5>need to have some place to aim.

1:33:08.520 --> 1:33:12.280
<v Speaker 2>That maybe, And I think people learn tips, Like there

1:33:12.320 --> 1:33:14.679
<v Speaker 2>was a new story last month where a little girl

1:33:15.040 --> 1:33:17.799
<v Speaker 2>because she watched so much SVU, someone tried to kidnap

1:33:17.800 --> 1:33:19.479
<v Speaker 2>her and she knew how to fight them off and

1:33:19.560 --> 1:33:20.400
<v Speaker 2>leave evidence and.

1:33:20.360 --> 1:33:24.439
<v Speaker 3>What to do to escape the situation because of the show.

1:33:24.760 --> 1:33:27.120
<v Speaker 2>And there's a Forensic Files where this happened to a

1:33:27.120 --> 1:33:29.479
<v Speaker 2>young woman was kidnapped and she was able to like

1:33:30.000 --> 1:33:33.200
<v Speaker 2>leave fingerprints and like look at things and cues and

1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:35.759
<v Speaker 2>look at the details of the car and was able

1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:39.040
<v Speaker 2>to like catch this serial killer because of her knowledge.

1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:44.240
<v Speaker 2>So unfortunately, I do think we get tips from the show. Wow,

1:33:44.640 --> 1:33:46.839
<v Speaker 2>do you watch crime stuff? Like what do you watch?

1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:51.880
<v Speaker 4>No, well, I watch I like detective stuff. I don't

1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:55.360
<v Speaker 4>like slasher stuff. Yeah, that's that. I don't like that.

1:33:55.479 --> 1:33:59.800
<v Speaker 4>But you know, like broad Church, Oh, I love Church.

1:34:00.280 --> 1:34:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Church was great, so good.

1:34:03.240 --> 1:34:07.680
<v Speaker 5>And there's the Bridge Dust Broke to the It was

1:34:07.960 --> 1:34:10.040
<v Speaker 5>a Danish Swedish co production.

1:34:10.600 --> 1:34:13.600
<v Speaker 4>I like Swedish noir a lot of the Bridge.

1:34:14.280 --> 1:34:16.639
<v Speaker 3>Did they make that into a US one with Diad?

1:34:17.160 --> 1:34:20.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? I watched that. Yeah, I didn't see the American version.

1:34:20.640 --> 1:34:22.800
<v Speaker 1>I only watched the American version, and I'm sure you're

1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:24.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure the foreign version.

1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:24.519
<v Speaker 3>Was way better.

1:34:25.320 --> 1:34:27.280
<v Speaker 1>That's like the broad Church that I watched as the

1:34:27.280 --> 1:34:29.479
<v Speaker 1>British You probably that's the one you watched, and the

1:34:29.840 --> 1:34:32.400
<v Speaker 1>one I don't think was as good. Another good British

1:34:32.479 --> 1:34:33.639
<v Speaker 1>one is Happy Valley.

1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:36.439
<v Speaker 4>I've heard this from so many people.

1:34:36.680 --> 1:34:38.080
<v Speaker 3>If you're into that kind of thing.

1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right there, and that just I think another

1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:44.280
<v Speaker 2>part of the crime is, like we do like heroes

1:34:44.280 --> 1:34:46.360
<v Speaker 2>in the way when these people are caught, Like maybe

1:34:46.360 --> 1:34:48.639
<v Speaker 2>it is a fake sense of safety when you find

1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:49.720
<v Speaker 2>out that these people.

1:34:49.439 --> 1:34:52.599
<v Speaker 1>Are Yeah, and that's what you does for people at least,

1:34:52.600 --> 1:34:55.160
<v Speaker 1>because it ties up every scenario kind of in a bow, right,

1:34:55.120 --> 1:34:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and you know, like even if it's even if it's

1:34:57.880 --> 1:35:00.240
<v Speaker 1>not a great outcome. I mean, in your episode, many

1:35:00.320 --> 1:35:02.760
<v Speaker 1>children are not no longer living, but like you know,

1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:06.599
<v Speaker 1>we still you get the guy and you know, they.

1:35:06.520 --> 1:35:09.599
<v Speaker 5>Kind of skip. I mean they it's they don't spend

1:35:09.640 --> 1:35:14.240
<v Speaker 5>a lot of time being horrified about the dead children,

1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:18.280
<v Speaker 5>do they know? I mean they do have you know,

1:35:18.320 --> 1:35:21.720
<v Speaker 5>they send Chris Maloney's character home and Ice Tea goes

1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:24.719
<v Speaker 5>home to spend time with his kids, you know, and

1:35:24.720 --> 1:35:26.320
<v Speaker 5>and she's very upset with me.

1:35:27.120 --> 1:35:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, talking, But Marishka is like other triggers of cases

1:35:34.240 --> 1:35:35.160
<v Speaker 2>that really.

1:35:36.040 --> 1:35:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Not the character.

1:35:38.200 --> 1:35:39.200
<v Speaker 4>Has she been on your show?

1:35:40.880 --> 1:35:41.840
<v Speaker 3>That's the holy grail.

1:35:42.000 --> 1:35:42.240
<v Speaker 4>You know.

1:35:42.640 --> 1:35:44.280
<v Speaker 3>Once we get her, we got to end the show,

1:35:44.320 --> 1:35:45.479
<v Speaker 3>so we can't make it last.

1:35:47.479 --> 1:35:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we had one listener, right, and like, hey, you

1:35:49.680 --> 1:35:51.800
<v Speaker 2>should get Marishka harget On the show, and it's a

1:35:51.960 --> 1:35:57.479
<v Speaker 2>great idea, but we also we kind of want to

1:35:57.520 --> 1:36:01.080
<v Speaker 2>meet her in person. We we've obviously built up fantasy.

1:36:00.680 --> 1:36:03.400
<v Speaker 3>In our hand. Yeah, going to New York and going

1:36:03.439 --> 1:36:04.720
<v Speaker 3>to set and seeing her.

1:36:04.760 --> 1:36:07.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, I support you in that.

1:36:07.400 --> 1:36:07.720
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

1:36:08.840 --> 1:36:11.400
<v Speaker 5>One day she'll do it, I think, because she's she

1:36:11.560 --> 1:36:15.720
<v Speaker 5>is just she is just so open and full and

1:36:15.760 --> 1:36:19.599
<v Speaker 5>alive and really just a normal person.

1:36:22.760 --> 1:36:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Lisa, that was such a great conversation. I

1:36:26.800 --> 1:36:28.280
<v Speaker 2>just like love talking to him. I want to go

1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:31.599
<v Speaker 2>ride a horse with him in Malibu. What's going on? Yeah,

1:36:31.640 --> 1:36:34.880
<v Speaker 2>it was amazing and it just shows I don't know,

1:36:35.040 --> 1:36:37.599
<v Speaker 2>especially in our line of work. I was actually doing

1:36:37.760 --> 1:36:40.719
<v Speaker 2>two people's podcasts that are like successful and they were like, well,

1:36:40.800 --> 1:36:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I think we'd be more successful if we did this,

1:36:42.960 --> 1:36:44.000
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, you.

1:36:43.960 --> 1:36:46.639
<v Speaker 3>Guys are successful, and I think there's so much of.

1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:49.240
<v Speaker 2>A rat race at times, or you never think you're fulfilled,

1:36:49.320 --> 1:36:52.080
<v Speaker 2>or there's always someone doing more, having more, And it

1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:55.559
<v Speaker 2>is so nice to talk to someone that's like, yeah,

1:36:55.640 --> 1:36:59.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm living the dream, Like I'm getting paid for creative work,

1:36:59.120 --> 1:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm working on stuff. If I audition for projects, I

1:37:01.960 --> 1:37:05.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I ride a horse like that that should

1:37:05.360 --> 1:37:06.880
<v Speaker 2>be more people's vibes.

1:37:07.160 --> 1:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he kind of makes me want to get into meditation.

1:37:09.600 --> 1:37:11.439
<v Speaker 1>I've tried many times to meditate.

1:37:11.800 --> 1:37:13.040
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I can do it.

1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right, but he but but Jeff, you made

1:37:16.680 --> 1:37:17.759
<v Speaker 1>me want to try again.

1:37:17.920 --> 1:37:19.120
<v Speaker 3>So that's saying something.

1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:24.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll get high and go to yoga.

1:37:24.560 --> 1:37:26.160
<v Speaker 3>I'll get high and go watch a sunset.

1:37:26.400 --> 1:37:29.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I will do whatever, but I'm not going to

1:37:29.560 --> 1:37:31.320
<v Speaker 1>listen to meditation.

1:37:31.560 --> 1:37:34.120
<v Speaker 3>Do meditation. No, every I always fall asleep. I also

1:37:34.120 --> 1:37:34.600
<v Speaker 3>don't believe it.

1:37:34.680 --> 1:37:36.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm sure people could get to a meditative state,

1:37:36.880 --> 1:37:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Like just because I can't experience it doesn't make it

1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:39.800
<v Speaker 2>not real.

1:37:39.920 --> 1:37:41.440
<v Speaker 3>But like, I don't believe.

1:37:41.120 --> 1:37:44.479
<v Speaker 2>It for you, No, I don't believe people are I

1:37:44.520 --> 1:37:47.160
<v Speaker 2>think they're pretending. I think it's like when people talk

1:37:47.160 --> 1:37:49.879
<v Speaker 2>in tongues or like they think they're like, oh Jesus,

1:37:49.920 --> 1:37:50.400
<v Speaker 2>talk to me.

1:37:50.720 --> 1:37:51.519
<v Speaker 3>I don't believe it.

1:37:51.600 --> 1:37:53.920
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny because my husband, who grew up in

1:37:53.960 --> 1:37:56.839
<v Speaker 1>a church where people speak in tongues like, loves meditation

1:37:56.920 --> 1:37:58.880
<v Speaker 1>and says it really chills them out and really like

1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:00.320
<v Speaker 1>he says, it really works for him. But then of

1:38:00.320 --> 1:38:02.360
<v Speaker 1>course he stopped doing it. For like a while and

1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:04.759
<v Speaker 1>has to always rediscover it. I feel like that's everybody's

1:38:04.840 --> 1:38:07.880
<v Speaker 1>journey with meditation. It's the best thing ever that you

1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:09.680
<v Speaker 1>forget about doing for months at a time, and then

1:38:09.680 --> 1:38:11.080
<v Speaker 1>you have to keep rediscovering it.

1:38:11.240 --> 1:38:13.680
<v Speaker 2>The only people that I know that do it regularly

1:38:14.080 --> 1:38:17.680
<v Speaker 2>are our friends Sam and Eric, and I've stayed with

1:38:17.720 --> 1:38:21.639
<v Speaker 2>them before, and I would ruin Eric's meditation every time.

1:38:21.720 --> 1:38:23.879
<v Speaker 3>I would just bust into his office without.

1:38:23.720 --> 1:38:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Knocking, and he'd be like, I'm meditating, Like I would

1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:28.320
<v Speaker 2>just know.

1:38:28.439 --> 1:38:30.240
<v Speaker 1>You're You Know what's funny is I had a boss.

1:38:30.360 --> 1:38:32.519
<v Speaker 1>I had a like a like an executive boss. I

1:38:32.600 --> 1:38:34.679
<v Speaker 1>was his assistant for a while in New York, and

1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:37.360
<v Speaker 1>he would always go, I'm going to be meditating, and

1:38:37.360 --> 1:38:39.840
<v Speaker 1>he was napping. He was always just napping, Like he

1:38:39.920 --> 1:38:41.800
<v Speaker 1>was on the couch in his office, closing his eyes

1:38:41.800 --> 1:38:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and going to sleep. And I was like, you can

1:38:43.120 --> 1:38:44.920
<v Speaker 1>call it meditating, but you are taking a full.

1:38:44.840 --> 1:38:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Nap, which is closer to God than anything I've ever

1:38:48.640 --> 1:38:49.839
<v Speaker 2>exp A nap.

1:38:49.920 --> 1:38:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, nap over anything. I can only do shorty naps.

1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:55.479
<v Speaker 1>I can't do those long naps. They make me feel crazy.

1:38:56.040 --> 1:38:58.080
<v Speaker 1>But let's get into our post mortem, we can talk

1:38:58.080 --> 1:39:02.560
<v Speaker 1>about a napping in our post mortem these Unfortunately, the

1:39:02.640 --> 1:39:05.759
<v Speaker 1>children in this episode were not napping.

1:39:05.840 --> 1:39:08.120
<v Speaker 3>They were dead, And this was such a tough episode

1:39:08.120 --> 1:39:08.639
<v Speaker 3>to watch.

1:39:09.680 --> 1:39:12.479
<v Speaker 1>But I think that when you experience something, what we learned,

1:39:12.479 --> 1:39:14.559
<v Speaker 1>as we always learn and what we always tell people,

1:39:14.720 --> 1:39:17.360
<v Speaker 1>is like, when you experience something traumatic, it's okay to

1:39:17.400 --> 1:39:20.200
<v Speaker 1>go to get help, It's okay to talk to somebody stabler.

1:39:21.560 --> 1:39:23.479
<v Speaker 1>So that's like always a lesson. I feel like we

1:39:23.520 --> 1:39:25.479
<v Speaker 1>pull from this show. It's like, oh, yeah, I did

1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:27.640
<v Speaker 1>see something pretty fucked up. Maybe I'll go talk to

1:39:27.680 --> 1:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>someone and try to process that instead of burying it

1:39:30.000 --> 1:39:31.559
<v Speaker 1>deep and in the world.

1:39:31.680 --> 1:39:35.280
<v Speaker 2>When someone's acting a fool, instead of right away judging them,

1:39:35.560 --> 1:39:38.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe take a moment and go maybe they were in

1:39:38.040 --> 1:39:41.200
<v Speaker 2>an incest vampire cult and escaped, and maybe we should

1:39:41.240 --> 1:39:44.960
<v Speaker 2>be nicer. Yes, I just think more people around us

1:39:44.960 --> 1:39:48.880
<v Speaker 2>constantly are going through violent traumas that we can't even imagine,

1:39:49.000 --> 1:39:51.479
<v Speaker 2>and that we are just so mean. And I'm including

1:39:51.520 --> 1:39:54.320
<v Speaker 2>myself and including most criminals, I mean almost every criminal.

1:39:54.320 --> 1:39:55.760
<v Speaker 3>I feel like they traumatic.

1:39:55.439 --> 1:39:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Past because I'm someone that's not always patient with others,

1:39:59.200 --> 1:40:02.479
<v Speaker 2>and it's like a reminder to be like, oh, yeah,

1:40:02.520 --> 1:40:04.840
<v Speaker 2>you just don't know what people have been through.

1:40:05.320 --> 1:40:10.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and escaped and then yeah, listen to Benson.

1:40:11.800 --> 1:40:13.479
<v Speaker 2>Or to the women that were like the kids will

1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:15.880
<v Speaker 2>be harmed, please help them, and the cops go, we'll

1:40:15.880 --> 1:40:20.160
<v Speaker 2>be fine. It's like, yeah, I don't even know. Listen

1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:20.839
<v Speaker 2>to mothers.

1:40:20.880 --> 1:40:21.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know if that's the lesson, but it's

1:40:24.160 --> 1:40:27.600
<v Speaker 2>like I guess with police or you just never know

1:40:27.640 --> 1:40:29.360
<v Speaker 2>what the right decision is, you know.

1:40:29.439 --> 1:40:32.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think if you're a shady bank guy

1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:35.040
<v Speaker 1>who's helping a cult leader in buzzle money and you

1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:37.120
<v Speaker 1>want to take a lady out for a nice vacation,

1:40:37.520 --> 1:40:39.599
<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be Tampa. Dog, that's not the place.

1:40:40.080 --> 1:40:42.799
<v Speaker 1>That's not the place. It's not Tampa. Let's go Miami.

1:40:43.120 --> 1:40:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Let mean, let's avoid Florida right now. But you know,

1:40:48.000 --> 1:40:50.800
<v Speaker 1>somewhere I don't know a little bit more. What's a

1:40:50.840 --> 1:40:53.679
<v Speaker 1>good romantic whisk away for the weekend? Place Santa Barbara.

1:40:53.840 --> 1:40:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know any anywhere it can be romantic, including Tampa. Yeah,

1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the Baxtrey boy they're from there. I would go visit

1:41:01.120 --> 1:41:01.839
<v Speaker 2>all their houses.

1:41:02.560 --> 1:41:07.800
<v Speaker 3>So romantic. Oh my god, is this AJ's house? Whit Wait,

1:41:07.880 --> 1:41:10.639
<v Speaker 3>is that a Backstreet Boy? Yeah? Okay, I thought maybe

1:41:10.680 --> 1:41:11.960
<v Speaker 3>I did an instinct by accident.

1:41:12.400 --> 1:41:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Wait, Lisa, I can't believe I've never told you this,

1:41:14.800 --> 1:41:16.640
<v Speaker 2>because I think this is a pretty funny thing about me.

1:41:17.439 --> 1:41:20.280
<v Speaker 1>When I was the summer between my junior and senior

1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:22.400
<v Speaker 1>year in college, I went I lived in Boston. I

1:41:22.439 --> 1:41:24.919
<v Speaker 1>took a year off camp. I decided to go to Boston,

1:41:25.040 --> 1:41:28.160
<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to get an internship to like, I

1:41:28.160 --> 1:41:30.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know, help me get a job or something after college.

1:41:30.080 --> 1:41:31.080
<v Speaker 3>I had no idea what I was doing.

1:41:31.439 --> 1:41:35.639
<v Speaker 1>I ended up getting a internship at the Boston Sports Museum.

1:41:35.960 --> 1:41:38.360
<v Speaker 1>I have no fucking idea. I applied too late. There

1:41:38.360 --> 1:41:41.479
<v Speaker 1>were no internships that left. It was terrible. But they

1:41:41.520 --> 1:41:43.880
<v Speaker 1>also had concerts, and so I was like, okay, like

1:41:44.240 --> 1:41:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the Boston Sports Museum like had con It was because

1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:49.240
<v Speaker 1>it was part of a stadium, so there would be

1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:50.559
<v Speaker 1>concerts there, and I was like, all right, at least

1:41:50.560 --> 1:41:53.120
<v Speaker 1>I'll get to see some cool concerts. The Backstreet Boys

1:41:53.160 --> 1:41:56.439
<v Speaker 1>canceled their concert because AJ got one into rehab, and

1:41:56.479 --> 1:41:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I quit. I quit the job based

1:41:58.400 --> 1:42:00.479
<v Speaker 1>on the Backstreet Boys pulling out of a concert. Yeah,

1:42:01.280 --> 1:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>and I got a waitressing job, and I had the

1:42:02.920 --> 1:42:03.960
<v Speaker 1>summer of my life.

1:42:04.160 --> 1:42:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, because I was about to say it's weird you

1:42:06.000 --> 1:42:09.479
<v Speaker 2>could you didn't suck up any sports information from interning

1:42:09.560 --> 1:42:11.000
<v Speaker 2>at the Boston Sports Museum.

1:42:11.040 --> 1:42:13.519
<v Speaker 3>But now I understand you quick. It lasted one week.

1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:18.360
<v Speaker 2>No, waitressing's way more fun than an internship. Yeah, it

1:42:18.400 --> 1:42:19.120
<v Speaker 2>was much more fun.

1:42:19.160 --> 1:42:21.120
<v Speaker 1>I thought I needed it to like pad my resume

1:42:21.280 --> 1:42:22.759
<v Speaker 1>or whatever because I was going out into.

1:42:22.560 --> 1:42:25.280
<v Speaker 3>The cruel, cold world a year later. But look look

1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:27.639
<v Speaker 3>what happened. I'm fine. I do comedy. Well.

1:42:27.680 --> 1:42:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I think another lesson that I learned in terms of

1:42:30.520 --> 1:42:33.679
<v Speaker 2>acting is like Jeff had no idea he was playing

1:42:33.720 --> 1:42:38.000
<v Speaker 2>a bad guy. Yeah, like to really get into that

1:42:38.080 --> 1:42:41.040
<v Speaker 2>and be like, no, I'm helping everybody Like that is

1:42:41.400 --> 1:42:43.840
<v Speaker 2>a That's something I don't know what it is, but

1:42:44.360 --> 1:42:46.200
<v Speaker 2>just something to think about if I ever get a

1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:47.799
<v Speaker 2>role as a killer.

1:42:48.439 --> 1:42:50.679
<v Speaker 1>I also find it wild how many people we interview

1:42:50.680 --> 1:42:52.479
<v Speaker 1>that say that they don't watch themselves. I feel like

1:42:52.479 --> 1:42:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I would watch my thing and like like analyze it

1:42:55.000 --> 1:42:56.400
<v Speaker 1>and be like obsessed with watching it.

1:42:56.400 --> 1:42:59.240
<v Speaker 3>But maybe that's just because I have a nurse iistic.

1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:01.479
<v Speaker 2>Personality watching it. I mean, we watched The King of

1:43:01.520 --> 1:43:06.439
<v Speaker 2>Staten Island together. I loved watched it since. But that

1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>was really fun and exciting and it was a small part.

1:43:08.360 --> 1:43:11.360
<v Speaker 2>But if I was like getting assaulted and crying on

1:43:11.439 --> 1:43:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the stand, that might be more difficult to watch, right

1:43:13.920 --> 1:43:15.799
<v Speaker 2>to watch over? Yeah, watch many times.

1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:18.880
<v Speaker 1>But also I'm sure your friends text you and are

1:43:18.920 --> 1:43:22.200
<v Speaker 1>like your episodes on or whatever because SVU is constantly

1:43:22.280 --> 1:43:23.800
<v Speaker 1>running on twelve different channels.

1:43:24.280 --> 1:43:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's cool and it's and it's interesting to

1:43:28.000 --> 1:43:31.559
<v Speaker 2>know that like someone that we of course assumed just

1:43:31.600 --> 1:43:33.320
<v Speaker 2>got an in was like auditioning.

1:43:34.040 --> 1:43:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, totally, never be back out, never be too

1:43:38.080 --> 1:43:40.320
<v Speaker 1>proud to audition, and that he was.

1:43:40.560 --> 1:43:43.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, went to the Richard Ramirez. I mean, is

1:43:43.080 --> 1:43:45.360
<v Speaker 2>this that postmortam just how much we're in love with

1:43:45.439 --> 1:43:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Jeff and we'll do any kind of he could be

1:43:48.000 --> 1:43:48.559
<v Speaker 2>a cult leader.

1:43:48.600 --> 1:43:52.040
<v Speaker 1>I think we're watch Jeff as he could be a

1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:54.639
<v Speaker 1>nice guy cult leader. He's like a good he's he's

1:43:54.800 --> 1:43:57.599
<v Speaker 1>definitely has like a great like and magnetic personality, but

1:43:57.680 --> 1:43:59.400
<v Speaker 1>not in a way that tells you to like, you know,

1:44:00.160 --> 1:44:03.000
<v Speaker 1>never bathe and live without electricity for eight years.

1:44:03.080 --> 1:44:04.280
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's move on.

1:44:04.920 --> 1:44:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of Cults for this week's what would Sister Peg Do,

1:44:07.840 --> 1:44:10.519
<v Speaker 1>which is our weekly segment where we point you to

1:44:10.640 --> 1:44:14.479
<v Speaker 1>an organization or an article or some kind of resource

1:44:14.520 --> 1:44:16.639
<v Speaker 1>that can help you get more information on the subjects

1:44:16.680 --> 1:44:20.280
<v Speaker 1>we touched on in today's episode. This week, we wanted

1:44:20.280 --> 1:44:22.880
<v Speaker 1>to direct you towards another episode of a podcast. There

1:44:22.920 --> 1:44:26.080
<v Speaker 1>is a podcast called Cults, and there is an episode

1:44:26.160 --> 1:44:31.240
<v Speaker 1>called The Wesson Vampire Clan and it's just a more

1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:33.559
<v Speaker 1>in depth look at you know, we only have half

1:44:33.600 --> 1:44:36.519
<v Speaker 1>of our episode to hit on the crime and this

1:44:36.680 --> 1:44:38.880
<v Speaker 1>just has a more in depth look into what happens

1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:43.920
<v Speaker 1>to that poor family and Marcus Wesson's evil ways. So

1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:46.360
<v Speaker 1>check out our show notes for the link to that,

1:44:46.600 --> 1:44:48.639
<v Speaker 1>or you can just go find Cults wherever you podcast

1:44:48.760 --> 1:44:50.320
<v Speaker 1>and find that episode.

1:44:49.840 --> 1:44:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And next week's episode join us as we will be

1:44:52.960 --> 1:44:58.800
<v Speaker 2>talking about Dissonant Voices Season fifteen, episode seven, So watch

1:44:58.840 --> 1:45:03.799
<v Speaker 2>it on Hulu, p talk and anywhere any streaming service

1:45:03.800 --> 1:45:05.800
<v Speaker 2>in the country that you're in, you know what I mean,

1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:10.840
<v Speaker 2>or a fire stick I hear that's a thing. Yeah,

1:45:11.000 --> 1:45:12.559
<v Speaker 2>hit us up, message us.

1:45:12.920 --> 1:45:13.799
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for listening.

1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:24.439
<v Speaker 2>Hi, that's messed up as an exactly right production.

1:45:24.640 --> 1:45:26.519
<v Speaker 1>If you have compliments you'd like to give us or

1:45:26.560 --> 1:45:28.719
<v Speaker 1>episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email

1:45:28.760 --> 1:45:31.560
<v Speaker 1>at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

1:45:31.240 --> 1:45:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod

1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:36.599
<v Speaker 2>and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us

1:45:36.600 --> 1:45:39.559
<v Speaker 2>personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.

1:45:39.720 --> 1:45:42.439
<v Speaker 1>As always, please see our show notes for sources and

1:45:42.520 --> 1:45:43.200
<v Speaker 1>more information.

1:45:43.560 --> 1:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our

1:45:47.080 --> 1:45:50.000
<v Speaker 2>incredible producer Hannah Kyle Kraton.

1:45:49.840 --> 1:45:52.919
<v Speaker 1>And to our sound engineer and personal hero, Analie Snilson,

1:45:53.080 --> 1:45:56.240
<v Speaker 1>and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, to Carly

1:45:56.320 --> 1:45:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers

1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgariff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly

1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Right Media.

1:46:04.320 --> 1:46:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,

1:46:08.520 --> 1:46:11.720
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1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:15.080
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1:46:17.640 --> 1:46:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Done