WEBVTT - Affirm CEO Sees 'Good Consumer Behavior'

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you might remember yesterday we talked a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about Jamie Diamond of JP Morgan his annual shareholder letter.

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<v Speaker 1>He waited on a lot of things, including how he's

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<v Speaker 1>keeping an eye on fintech startups and perhaps maybe one

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<v Speaker 1>of those firms is one like our next guest. We're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about a firm, and let's bring in the founder

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<v Speaker 1>and ce of a firm to get a feel of

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<v Speaker 1>what they are up to, what's going on with consumers

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<v Speaker 1>and digital commerce. Great to have back with us as

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<v Speaker 1>Max Levchin, he's co founder PayPal, he is founder and

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<v Speaker 1>CEO slide that was sold to Google, chairman of Yelp

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<v Speaker 1>for many years, and he joins us on the phone

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<v Speaker 1>in Hawaii, and it's great to have you back. How

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<v Speaker 1>are you. Thank you for hearing me. Um, I'm doing well,

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<v Speaker 1>spring break, I'm working, but thank kids are really enjoyed

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<v Speaker 1>this one. I bet I bet no. I know it

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<v Speaker 1>does feel like well you tell me, Max, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like there's a lot of areas we can go, but

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, your company, Uh, it's really unique in

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<v Speaker 1>that you do get a window into what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>with consumers. It does feel like the world is reopening

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<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing more activity. I've gotten one vaccine. I know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people in my orbit have all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden in the last few weeks gotten vaccines. It

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<v Speaker 1>feels like things are opening up. How do you see

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<v Speaker 1>it and what's going on with consumers? I think the

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think your your your your sense for

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<v Speaker 1>this primed to get back to hopefully normal or semblance

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<v Speaker 1>there off is really spot on. We're seeing this in

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<v Speaker 1>our idea obviously tracking every machinable metric. What is the

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<v Speaker 1>curve of recovering going to look like? From my point

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<v Speaker 1>of view, the most important thing I care about is

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<v Speaker 1>the health of the consumer. On the financial side of things,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've seen and too much thanks to the action

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<v Speaker 1>by Final Reserve and government in various places, there's just

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<v Speaker 1>a tremendous amount of where we consider it to be

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<v Speaker 1>good consumer behavior. There's a lot of savings and this

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<v Speaker 1>is to me that means people are saving up to

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<v Speaker 1>really go out and have a wonderful vacation that they've

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<v Speaker 1>helped back on. And you know, we're seeing conversations with

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<v Speaker 1>our partners places like Verba and Pacasa, etcetera, um on

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<v Speaker 1>the sort of overall health from the death in comboration

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<v Speaker 1>side of things. Americans have paid off most three billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in debts during the pandemic, so they put some

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<v Speaker 1>of those stimulust checks to again, from my point of view,

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<v Speaker 1>the right the right thing to do. Uh. And then

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<v Speaker 1>just the overall consumer confidence is really high and jumped

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<v Speaker 1>to one year high, which is maybe maybe from a

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<v Speaker 1>low point of a year ago. We weren't really taking

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<v Speaker 1>these log downs seriously, and at this point I think

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<v Speaker 1>people have you know, they've suffered and they're really looking

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<v Speaker 1>forward to really well, let me ask you something that

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<v Speaker 1>is your company, you know, offers installment plans right to

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<v Speaker 1>online shoppers, um, and lets people kind of pay over time.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you seeing less of that because people are using

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<v Speaker 1>more of whether it's stimulus dollars or just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>savings in general, to pay down their debt. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>make any kind of conclusions along those lines, Um, you don't.

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<v Speaker 1>We have seen exceptional growth in the last year, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I would not characterize it as seeing less. I

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<v Speaker 1>do think that people are using their similar dollars. Sensibly,

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<v Speaker 1>we have a staving feature that we offered to our customers,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've seen influx of staying increases as the government

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<v Speaker 1>sent checks to consumers, and so I think that there's

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<v Speaker 1>a sort of very visible correlation there. Uh. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's really interesting about the effect of the pandemic and

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<v Speaker 1>a long term state of e commerce and just shopping

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<v Speaker 1>in general, is we've trained a whole generation of people

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<v Speaker 1>that we're just not going to go online. Folks like

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<v Speaker 1>my mom, who is in her seventies, who enjoys her

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<v Speaker 1>offline shopping. It's you know, she's now very well versed

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<v Speaker 1>in the idea of boxes coming to her door. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we brought in a bunch of e commerce shoppers,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think they're here to stay. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>what's really going to be required of us in the

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<v Speaker 1>binoculator industry and broadly specard providers and payments, we have

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<v Speaker 1>to meet this new consumer behavior with buy online and

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<v Speaker 1>pick up and store or return in store, exchange in store.

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<v Speaker 1>They're all the mixed omni channel modalities that are suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>going to be much more common, much more important. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to say too. In retail, I mean I

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<v Speaker 1>look for places where there's lots of ease I can

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<v Speaker 1>if I buy online, can I easily return it either

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<v Speaker 1>through their taking care of it, or they're taking care

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<v Speaker 1>of shipping, or I can drop it off at one

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<v Speaker 1>of their storefronts. And you know, we've talked about omni

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<v Speaker 1>channel for a long time, but I think now I

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<v Speaker 1>totally get it of what it really needs to be.

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<v Speaker 1>In order for it to be incredibly productive. You have

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<v Speaker 1>to be met where you want to be met, especially

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<v Speaker 1>as we're still for coming back to it's safe. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I have my half vac scene or how safe

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<v Speaker 1>am I? I don't really want to go hand around

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<v Speaker 1>and big showroom. But if I buy online and I

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<v Speaker 1>need to get rid of it, it has to be

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<v Speaker 1>very quick. I don't want to repackage it and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to get to the post office, I need to bring

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<v Speaker 1>it back to the door. Stuff. Yeah, So I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's that's a big important change. So when you

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<v Speaker 1>talk or you see what's going on in terms of spending,

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<v Speaker 1>because you help folks whether they're buying, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>peloton or they're traveling or buying stuff at Williams Sonoma,

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<v Speaker 1>what is it where do you see people spending the

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<v Speaker 1>most money? At this point, Max, you know, we were

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<v Speaker 1>so diverse in our merchant coverage. It's almost uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we aren't we seeing this most interesting area that we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing growth and right now is of course travel. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's that's almost a fat a company at

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<v Speaker 1>this point. They're all these people who are just dying

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<v Speaker 1>to get out of their four walls by anything necessary.

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<v Speaker 1>The other areas are just gonna any totally really funny

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<v Speaker 1>but makes total offense. But I was sort of shocked

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<v Speaker 1>and then not shopped at weddings, you know, unbelievable influx

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<v Speaker 1>of demand for wedding everything. Do you if you pumped

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<v Speaker 1>it or postponed or fell in love during you're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>get married and you're gonna have a big party. But

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<v Speaker 1>where we're seeing a lot of that. I have to say,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I know three or four people in my orbit.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I had tried to schedule a wedding several

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<v Speaker 1>times um over the last year, and I had to

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<v Speaker 1>keep you postponing it or people who got married but said, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to do a party as soon as things

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<v Speaker 1>open up. So a lot of that's going on. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about your company here, you are nine years in

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<v Speaker 1>three months roughly since you I p oed um. I

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned I was trying to find my notes on those

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<v Speaker 1>stock prices up about for since that January, I p O,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how is your company change and evolved along

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<v Speaker 1>with what consumers need or what the market needs know it?

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<v Speaker 1>So it's it's actually a very rewording moment. It just

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<v Speaker 1>literally happened. I was on PI day market our birthday,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, on the one hand, everything has changed.

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<v Speaker 1>You nine years ago, ide bioppulator just wasn't the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>People believe it. They cards are fine, and I had

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of very strongly word a point of view

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<v Speaker 1>that the credits is broken. We need to provide a

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<v Speaker 1>more flexible mparent alternative because not want to be confused

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<v Speaker 1>by their just great. They want that exactly when and

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<v Speaker 1>how they will get out of pain, their their their

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<v Speaker 1>their payments. And so we made this mission to create

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<v Speaker 1>financial products that improve lives and at a state exactly

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<v Speaker 1>the same. And it's really awesome to just to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to look back and get we've been doing the

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<v Speaker 1>same exact thing while evolving and changing everything for nine

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<v Speaker 1>years straight, and it feels like we're probably five percentage

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<v Speaker 1>percentage what we were trying to accomplish. So it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>one of these things. But it's the longest project I've

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<v Speaker 1>heard done in my entire life starting companies in college

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<v Speaker 1>and I have no interest in slowing down or got

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<v Speaker 1>for both pausing, So it's really fun. Well where do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to take it? I mean, you've introduced the

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<v Speaker 1>affirm card. Um you know, tell us about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how you're thinking about things, how you grow the business

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<v Speaker 1>obviously because you are a business, but how do you

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<v Speaker 1>know continue to kind of innovate and think about the

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<v Speaker 1>services that are needed. Right now, the opportunity is just

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<v Speaker 1>almost overwhelming. So obviously we're gonna stay true to our mission,

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<v Speaker 1>will be transparent and be honest. We won't charge you

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<v Speaker 1>lead people want charge you an it's easy, don't expect um.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's lots of different lectures and we're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>pursue them all as much as as much as we

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<v Speaker 1>can so that the card is obviously you have a

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<v Speaker 1>fundamental products for us because it we think it gives

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<v Speaker 1>us permission to be in your everyday financial life. Up

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<v Speaker 1>until now, every by malpulator provider is something that you

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<v Speaker 1>encounter at the point of sale. You may learn about

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<v Speaker 1>it then or not. This is a product that we

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<v Speaker 1>expect to deliver to our customers and say hey you

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<v Speaker 1>can have this bet are more transparent or honest way

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<v Speaker 1>to transact with you every single day in your wallety

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<v Speaker 1>digital Laalan or a physical one. And so that that's

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<v Speaker 1>something that we just expected to spend lots and lots

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<v Speaker 1>of side doesn't really really be you very really excited

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<v Speaker 1>about this project. We have just a crazy number of

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<v Speaker 1>really amazing platform integrations that we're either launching or contemplating

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<v Speaker 1>on ful buildings and Shopify some thing that we announced, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, half a year or something like that. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's something that's with reason building out and we see

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<v Speaker 1>more opportunities to come in and help folks that serve

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<v Speaker 1>merchants just provide more transparent and better financial products to

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<v Speaker 1>their shoppers. Shoppers with the underlying merchants, and they're just

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<v Speaker 1>a huge number of merchant services that we can bring

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<v Speaker 1>to the markets to help our merchant partners do smarter,

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<v Speaker 1>better things for their customers. So it's it's want to

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<v Speaker 1>be saying no matter how fast I talked, I will

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<v Speaker 1>barely touch on the ant opportunity. Well, listen, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you check out what you guys are doing, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean no late fees, no prepayment fees, no annual fees,

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<v Speaker 1>and no fees to open or close your account. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at your website, but I you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>was reminded of kind of your strategy. UM. Remind first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, it makes me wonder why wouldn't anybody or

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<v Speaker 1>just everybody just do it this way versus traditional cards.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to be a commercial for you, but

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, first of all, how do you remind our audio?

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<v Speaker 1>It's how you're making money. So about half of our

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<v Speaker 1>transactions are both interest free, and all the fees that

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<v Speaker 1>you you're at up, you know they never apply, have

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<v Speaker 1>never applied. One of my favorite stat about a firm

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<v Speaker 1>is zero dollars and zero sense of he's charged ever,

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<v Speaker 1>And so that that that's a really good way I'm

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<v Speaker 1>judging us and who we are. UM, so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there are two sources of income for us, precisely, and

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<v Speaker 1>merchants pay us a little bit or processing these transactions

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<v Speaker 1>for them, and we bring to them and exchanges typically

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<v Speaker 1>very significant increase in conversion as well as average order value.

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<v Speaker 1>So folks that are on defense about buying something that's expensive,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe just a little uncomfortable doing against their checking account.

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<v Speaker 1>Well will help them split it into anything as as

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<v Speaker 1>quickly as six weeks to as long as four years,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that that that's convenience with the knowledge that

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<v Speaker 1>there will be no incremental interests penalties of any kind.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a very powerful driver of conversion and increase spend,

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<v Speaker 1>and so merchants are happy to pay for that. Typically

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<v Speaker 1>are this is win win relationship. There Uh, in some situations,

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<v Speaker 1>the merchants would like us to charge consumers interest, and

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<v Speaker 1>we do in about half the time or I think

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit less and half time obviously fluctuates depending

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<v Speaker 1>on our merchant base, consumers staying no interest at all,

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<v Speaker 1>and in some situations actually really really cool. We have

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<v Speaker 1>these magical moments where consumers pay no interest at all

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<v Speaker 1>and the piece of course, and the merchants pay precious

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<v Speaker 1>little because it's the manufacturer that wants to subsidize the transaction,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they step in to help us deliver this amazing,

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<v Speaker 1>amazing saving for consumers would do the gameor time, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's cost them nothing about the sticker price, while the

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<v Speaker 1>merchant just looks to sale. And so we see those

0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.200
<v Speaker 1>models taking significant root in the industry as well. All right,

0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:46.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna end on a lighter note. Just got about

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.240
<v Speaker 1>thirty seconds how many Pelotons were going through your network

0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.439
<v Speaker 1>during the past. Think I'm allowed to say that anymore.

0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.640
<v Speaker 1>I can tell you that I think we're officially up

0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:03.280
<v Speaker 1>to a full Pelton device family. So so, in other words,

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.960
<v Speaker 1>in your own household, there was a lot going on. Um,

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.720
<v Speaker 1>great stuff, Max, Thank you so much. We I always

0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>loved talking with you. I really appreciated good luck and

0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.319
<v Speaker 1>congratulations on nine years, and look forward to checking back

0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 1>with you soon in the future. Max Leftkin He is CEO,

0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.480
<v Speaker 1>chief executive officer, founder of a firm, co founder of

0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.360
<v Speaker 1>PayPal uh. He was also CTEO of that company and

0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.000
<v Speaker 1>chairman of Yell for about eleven years from its founding days.

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 1>So just great to check in with him.