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Speaker 1: What you're about to listen to is a conversation with

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Speaker 1: Alison Fox, the CEO of American Prairie. For twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: American Prairie has been executing on an ambitious and highly

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Speaker 1: controversial plan to buy hundreds of thousands of acres of

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Speaker 1: ranch land in the vicinity of the Charles M. Russell

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Speaker 1: National Wildlife Refuge in north central Montana in order to

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Speaker 1: ultimately compile a contiguous block of private and public lands

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Speaker 1: that are fifty percent larger than Yellowstone National Park, all

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Speaker 1: open to the public. So far, they've managed to buy

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty nine thousand acres. Their aim is

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Speaker 1: to manage the land to maximize wildlife habitat health, and

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Speaker 1: restore a grassland ecosystem inhabited by a full suite of

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Speaker 1: native wildlife, including the American Buffalo. Fans and supporters of

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Speaker 1: the plan see a Yellowstone of the Great Plains, or,

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Speaker 1: to steal a term from the historian Dan Floores an

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Speaker 1: American serengetti, see an evil land grab that poses an

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Speaker 1: existential threat to the American cowboy. If this is the

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Speaker 1: me Eater podcast, coming at you, shirtless, severely, bug bitten,

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Speaker 1: and in my case underwear listening to podcast, you can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything brought to you by first Light. When I'm hunting,

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Speaker 1: I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds, no compromise,

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Speaker 1: gear that keeps me in the field longer, no shortcuts,

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Speaker 1: just gear that works. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's f I R S T L I

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Speaker 1: T E dot com. All right, everybody, I'm joining today

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Speaker 1: by Alison Fox. She goes by Ali, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Correct the CEO of American Prayer. You may have known,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't even catch when this happened. American out

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Speaker 1: of Time was American Prairie Reserve, Yes, but became American

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Speaker 1: Prairie how long.

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Speaker 2: Ago twenty twenty one, and before that we were American

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Speaker 2: Prairie Foundation.

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Speaker 3: It's been a journey, right.

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Speaker 1: So now landed officially on American Prairie. She's been the

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Speaker 1: She's led the organization since February twenty eighteen, and has

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Speaker 1: been with the organization in very roll various roles since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. Here in the state of Montana,

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Speaker 1: they're they're based here in the state of Montana, primarily

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Speaker 1: in north central Montana. I'm gonna let you explain what

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Speaker 1: the mission is okay. But but American Prairie is and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into what it is and what it's been

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Speaker 1: interpreted as and controversy surrounding the organization. But it is

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Speaker 1: a one of a kind effort.

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Speaker 3: That is true.

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Speaker 1: It is a one of a kind habitat restoration effort

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Speaker 1: going on, and it presents certain challenges. But I would

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Speaker 1: like you first to lay out like layout for the audience.

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Speaker 1: Layout for me, what is the American Prairie vision?

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me start with what America Prairie is today.

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Speaker 2: So American Prairie is a nearly twenty five year old

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Speaker 2: conservation organization. We are based here in Montana. We are

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Speaker 2: a team of Montana's leading this organization and today we

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Speaker 2: manage six hundred and five thousand acres of habitat of

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Speaker 2: deeded and least public lands lands that are open to

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Speaker 2: the public and are all located around the Charli Russell

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Speaker 2: National Wildlife Refuge up in north central Montana. The ultimate

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Speaker 2: vision is to using private philanthropy purchase private lands to

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Speaker 2: link together existing public lands around the Charlie Russell National

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Speaker 2: Wildlife Refuge for eventually a landscape of about three million

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Speaker 2: acres so we've assembled six hundred and five thousand acres

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Speaker 2: toward two million acres to the one point one millionacre

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Speaker 2: Charlie Ussell National Wildlife Refuge.

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Speaker 1: These lands are back those numbers up, mix. I want

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Speaker 1: to follow this, yep, the current Charlie Russell Land. So

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Speaker 1: this is this is like BLM public land.

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Speaker 3: It's US Fish and Wildlife Service.

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Speaker 1: That's US Fish. Okay, I'm sorry, so you so, so

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Speaker 1: the actual CMR proper is how many acres?

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Speaker 3: It's one point one million acres.

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Speaker 1: One point one million acres, okay.

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Speaker 2: And it's along the Missouri For those are not familiar,

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Speaker 2: it's a long and skinny wildlife refuge along the Missouri River.

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Speaker 2: So it's river river bottom steep breaks on either side down.

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Speaker 3: To the river.

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Speaker 1: I guess when you were saying that, in my head,

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Speaker 1: I'm mixing up the National Wild Scenic River designation. But

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the CMR the reserve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the refuge. Yeah, the second largest refuge in

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Speaker 2: the in the lower forty eight Okay. And then what

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Speaker 2: you're referring to is the is the Missouri River portion,

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Speaker 2: the White Cliffs portion that has wild and see Nick

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Speaker 2: River designation, and that goes through the monument.

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Speaker 3: Yep, Missouri breaks now.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's a huge complex of public lands extending

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Speaker 1: off exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's somewhere around four hundred thousand acres okay, fifty acres.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the so the refuge is how many acres?

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Speaker 3: One point one million?

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Speaker 1: Just for for context for people, ye Alstoe National Park

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Speaker 1: is about two million acres exactly.

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Speaker 3: Glacier is about a million.

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Speaker 1: Okay, got it, all right, So there's so the ultimate

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Speaker 1: goal you're saying is make like the shooting for three

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Speaker 1: million contiguous acres exactly, and how many so far?

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Speaker 3: So six hundred and five thousand next to one point

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Speaker 3: one million.

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Speaker 1: Acres Okay, Okay. There's a huge buffalo component to this thing,

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Speaker 1: there is. Yeah, let's let's explain that to folks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is where this is where I get interested. I'm

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Speaker 1: interested in the whole thing, but this is where I

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Speaker 1: have like a more detailed, fine point interest.

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Speaker 2: Real tattoo or not, yeah, fake tattoo tattoos. So let's

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Speaker 2: just start with what this landscape look like. What are

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Speaker 2: great planes look like for thousands and thousands of years,

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Speaker 2: and that, as you know, as you've written about, was

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Speaker 2: tens of millions of bison out on this landscape for

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Speaker 2: buffalo out on this landscape in a very very short time.

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Speaker 2: And Dan Flores's talks about this in his book American

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Speaker 2: Serengetti as the greatest loss of wildlife at they had

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Speaker 2: human hands in modern human history, documented human history. That

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Speaker 2: we went from thirty plus million animals to less than

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Speaker 2: a thousand in Yellowstone National Park. So good conservation has

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Speaker 2: been happening to return bison. I think they're about a

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Speaker 2: half million in both conservation and production herds in the

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Speaker 2: country now, and I think it's less than twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: that are in conservation herds.

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Speaker 3: You may know that exactly, it's.

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Speaker 1: About ninety I mean, well, just kind of a good

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Speaker 1: way to understand it is about ninety five percent of

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Speaker 1: them are privately owned.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so that numbers about that numbers about right.

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Speaker 2: And so from the American Prairie is not a buffalo

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Speaker 2: or bison project entirely. We are a full ecosystem, full

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Speaker 2: conservation and public access. And I hope we talk a

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Speaker 2: lot about public access too, will public access project. But

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Speaker 2: from the beginning, from basically American Prairie start, we recognize

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Speaker 2: that bringing bison back to the landscape was an important

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Speaker 2: part of demonstrating the ultimate vision and bringing that native

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Speaker 2: grazer back to the land. So American Prairie has grazed

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Speaker 2: bison on our lands since two thousand and five. We

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Speaker 2: bought the first property in two thousand and four. This

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Speaker 2: was a few years before my time, but that early

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Speaker 2: team was brave and intrepid, and they brought sixteen animals

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Speaker 2: in from wind Cave National Park in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 2: and we have been growing this conservation heard ever since.

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Speaker 2: It's about nine d and ay animals now on to

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Speaker 2: two of our twelve units. So the six hundred and

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Speaker 2: five thousand acres is split up into into a number

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Speaker 2: of units based on what which properties were available for purchase.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know till the other day. I'm

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Speaker 1: writing a I'm writing like an updated afterward for my

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Speaker 1: Buffalo book because there's been eighteen years and so I'm

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Speaker 1: doing I'm doing kind of a snapshot of I don't

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Speaker 1: talk about American Prairie animals, but I'm doing a snapshot

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Speaker 1: of what I define as like really truly free range

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Speaker 1: herds that can move across jurisdictions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which there are a few, very.

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Speaker 1: Few, right, very few. They can move across.

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Speaker 3: Henry's Mountains, Book Cliffs.

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Speaker 1: One that but that discussion brought In that discussion, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about the ones that live on the North Rim,

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Speaker 1: and there's a population the North Rim that can move

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Speaker 1: across jurisdictions.

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Speaker 3: The Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well they move from from the park onto the Kaibab,

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Speaker 1: they can move onto state lands up there. So I

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Speaker 1: was talking about those and I didn't realize that that

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Speaker 1: at one point in time American prairie animals I think

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Speaker 1: some excess American prairie animals went to Arizona.

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Speaker 3: Yes, probably, I've read about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I mean so that that was used

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Speaker 1: as a foundation herd for other conservation herds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have nine hundred and forty animals today.

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Speaker 2: We have raised more than two thousand animals in this

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Speaker 2: twenty year history of bison on the landscape, and north

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Speaker 2: of six hundred and fifty have been distributed to other

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Speaker 2: conservation herds, and we've helped start a number of herds.

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Speaker 2: Many of those are tribal herds, but some of them

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Speaker 2: are federally or state managed herds.

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Speaker 1: You know, years ago We did an interview with Sean Garrity. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Shaun Garrity, like, how do you describe what his roles

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Speaker 1: in American Prairie today or just historically.

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Speaker 2: So Sean was a founder of American Prairie. He this

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Speaker 2: idea was not his. It came and we can talk

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Speaker 2: about where the idea originated. But he was a first CEO.

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Speaker 1: And so he did held the CEO.

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Speaker 2: He held the CEO position, and he started with the organization.

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Speaker 3: I mean he built the entire organization.

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Speaker 2: He came from business, he came from a consulting background.

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Speaker 2: He knew a lot about organizational management and design, and

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Speaker 2: it was you know, he was he was the entrepreneur

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Speaker 2: who built the organization. So Sean was the CEO President's

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Speaker 2: CEO for seventeen years and then I took over. I

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Speaker 2: worked for Sean for ten years and then took over

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and eighteen from Seawn. And then he

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Speaker 2: continued to serve on the board for a bit and

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Speaker 2: is now an emeritis director.

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Speaker 1: Got him what the thing that we had talked about

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Speaker 1: when I spoke with him, and it surprised me, is

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Speaker 1: I sort of maybe other people do. I used to

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Speaker 1: have an association between American prairie, like conceptually between American

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Speaker 1: prairie and the the member of the sociologist that had

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Speaker 1: this idea of Buffalo commons, he didn't like the he

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Speaker 1: didn't like he was uncomfortable with the relationship. But it

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Speaker 1: felt like to me, like like if it, if not intentional,

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Speaker 1: was such an interesting it was like an interesting point

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Speaker 1: of comparison or an interesting coincidence. Yeah, it was because

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Speaker 1: and I want to like explain to listeners quickly, like

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Speaker 1: a thing that what I'm talking about is I think

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Speaker 1: it was like Frank Popper and Mary Pop Poppers for

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Speaker 1: the last name, there's these sociologists. Nate looked at this idea. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me let me back up even further to a

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Speaker 1: different part of this, just for listeners understanding. If you

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Speaker 1: think of when you think of like big national forces

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Speaker 1: in the West, a lot of times national forests in

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Speaker 1: the West, they were had always been set aside as

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Speaker 1: forest reserves, they were undeveloped landscapes. In the east, you

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Speaker 1: had this thing east of the Mississippi, a lot of

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Speaker 1: these big national forests like the one I grew up near.

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Speaker 1: I grew up near the Manistee National Forest, the Manisteine

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Speaker 1: National Forest was assembled after the fact, like much of

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Speaker 1: the Manistee National Forest had been homesteaded and people bought

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Speaker 1: it for agriculture after the big logging era. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of that land couldn't be made to pay and

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Speaker 1: people bailed on it. They bailed on back taxes, they

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Speaker 1: just walked away from the land. And over time they

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Speaker 1: had this there's this whole story where they had the

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Speaker 1: Weeks Act. They made money, like the government had money,

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Speaker 1: and they started to reassemble abandoned landscapes into the national

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Speaker 1: forests that are in the eastern US. Years ago, it

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Speaker 1: was in the seventies, maybe someone brought up this idea

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Speaker 1: that these sociologists were looking at areas on the Great

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Speaker 1: Plains that they that they would see that what over

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Speaker 1: time had less and less population, and they put forth

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Speaker 1: this side. You know, it was just like this kind

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Speaker 1: of observation that if if landscapes, if landscapes depopulated, would

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Speaker 1: you see, like you know, would some sort of new

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Speaker 1: like after the fact wilderness emerge and depopulated landscapes. And

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Speaker 1: that I think that when they were looking, they were

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Speaker 1: sort of like happened to be looking in this particular

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Speaker 1: era area of the state as great planes became, as

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Speaker 1: portions of the great planes became less populated. I think

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Speaker 1: I remember reading about this in Ian Fraser's book Great Planes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately that's kind of where this idea e merged.

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Speaker 1: But it's not but it's not like a reflection of that.

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Speaker 1: But I think that people hold that in their heads maybe. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the idea was called Buffalo Commons, So it was

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Speaker 2: particularly looking at what the decimation of buffalo on the

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Speaker 2: landscape and where could buffalo come back. I think Shawn's point,

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Speaker 2: and it's a good one, is that they were just

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Speaker 2: one of many who were looking at at our great planes,

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Speaker 2: at if you even look at a global level, at

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Speaker 2: temperate grasslands, and saying where could you restore that full ecosystem?

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, I like to point out that

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Speaker 2: it was the American painter George Catlin in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty eighteen thirties excuse me, who called for the establishment

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Speaker 2: of a nation's park on our grasslands. He was just

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Speaker 2: as he was coming up the Missouri River, he was just,

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Speaker 2: you know, astonished by the numbers of animals that he saw.

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Speaker 2: And he has this great quote about being lifted up

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Speaker 2: on a pair of imaginary wings and seeing just endless

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Speaker 2: herds of buffalo below him, and calling for the establishment

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Speaker 2: of a nation's park for man and beast, which of

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Speaker 2: course never happened, and we never set aside a large

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Speaker 2: portion of our grasslands.

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Speaker 1: Why was that, Like they went on, they got to Yellows,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you hear all the stories, the conservation

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Speaker 1: history stories, like someone's like Yosemite, Now there's a place,

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Speaker 1: Yeah it should be we should save a chunk of that,

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Speaker 1: And they go to Yellowstone, like, man, we should save

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Speaker 1: a chunk of this. But on the on the grasslands,

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Speaker 1: it just didn't occur to anybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in part it was it was timing.

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Speaker 2: You know, we were we were settling the grasslands, and

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, with the with the extormation of

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Speaker 2: the buffalo, we were pushing indigenous nations off into under

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Speaker 2: reservations as well. And so that period from eighteen seventy

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Speaker 2: two when we establigh Yellstone through kind of the mid

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Speaker 2: twentieth century, we weren't viewing the wildlife was gone from

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Speaker 2: the grasslands, and we weren't viewing that as as something

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Speaker 2: to be protected. And I think there's also the sort

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Speaker 2: of scenic bias, right, like we were like really tall

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Speaker 2: mountains and we like and we like deep canyons and

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Speaker 2: you know, geysers and uh and the subtlety you know

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Speaker 2: that you know, you know this landscape. It's it's fast

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Speaker 2: and complex and beautiful, but you don't that's not it's

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Speaker 2: not it's dramatic in a different way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you get something you got to learn love.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When I think about the timeline, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: early conservationists wait to understand how quickly early conservationists recognize

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Speaker 1: certain things like Yellowstone and Yosemity, these like very almost

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Speaker 1: like like two like so obviously scenic, right that Yellowstone

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Speaker 1: was a protected park. Yellowstone had tourists when when they

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Speaker 1: were we were still fighting the Indian Wars, when the

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Speaker 1: Nez Purse fled reservation confinement in in uh eastern Washington,

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Speaker 1: western Idaho, when the nes Purse were fleeing reservation confinement

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Speaker 1: and the Nez Perse War started, a part of their

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Speaker 1: retreat led them through Yellowstone and they're having like shootouts

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Speaker 1: in the park while there are tourists there. It was

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Speaker 1: like that early, that early in the history of the West.

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Speaker 3: But it's just like not the wagons and going from there.

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Speaker 1: At that point in time, someone had come in and said, man,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's do a couple million acres two out

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Speaker 1: on the Great Plains, they would be like they would

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Speaker 1: be as celebrated today for that decision as we celebrate

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Speaker 1: you know, the people that were involved in Millstone.

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Speaker 2: And those were the decades where we were really decimating

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Speaker 2: those hurts. Eighteen seventies, eighteen eighties, Yeah, those were you know,

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Speaker 2: those were the years where you know that we were

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Speaker 2: just slaughtering these these animals.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, what when did the when did the idea

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Speaker 1: of American prairie first take shape? Like how did it

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Speaker 1: take shape and when?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a number of conservation organizations and coalitions

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Speaker 2: in like the late nineties, Yeah, the late nineties basically

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Speaker 2: who said we're looking again at temperate grasslands across the

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Speaker 2: globe and particularly the northern Great Plains and recognizing that

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Speaker 2: we didn't we didn't have those those large protected areas,

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Speaker 2: and it was it was Worldwidelie Fund was the organization

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Speaker 2: that founded American prairie from the beginning as an independent

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Speaker 2: five oh one c three with the model that we

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Speaker 2: now have today, which is private philanthropy to purchase private

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Speaker 2: lands to link together existing public lands, and so that

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Speaker 2: this region in Montana they recognized for it's wild life history,

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Speaker 2: they recognized it for the abundance of public lands, and

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Speaker 2: they recognize that you know, well over ninety percent is

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Speaker 2: intact native prairie, has not been plowed and has been

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Speaker 2: well stewarded, so the habitat is in good shape, and

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Speaker 2: that those were really the factors that led them to

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Speaker 2: choose this area there where there are other, you know,

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Speaker 2: bigger protected grassland areas in South Dakota and Colorado and Wyoming,

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Speaker 2: but American they chose this area for American prairie to

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Speaker 2: to do its work.

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Speaker 1: When did you first find out about it? Like, how

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Speaker 1: did you first get turned onto it? Personally?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, personally, so I moved.

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Speaker 2: I'm from a small town in vermont and I spent

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Speaker 2: a summer up in Glacier National Parking College, and that

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Speaker 2: was the beginning of my time in Montana. I met

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Speaker 2: a Montana who's now my husband, and just completely fall

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Speaker 2: in love with the big landscapes of the West, big

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Speaker 2: tracks of public land. I grew up hiking in the

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Speaker 2: White Mountains in New Hampshire in the Green Mountains in Vermont.

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Speaker 3: But these these really really.

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Speaker 2: Big expanses of public lands were were relatively new to me,

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Speaker 2: so I would have probably come into Montana anyway. So

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Speaker 2: I moved to bozman right after college and worked for

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Speaker 2: software company for a few years. And while I was here,

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Speaker 2: met a college classmate of mine whose parents were involved

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Speaker 2: with American Prairie and that's how I learned about it.

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Speaker 2: So I went after I went to graduate school, we

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Speaker 2: moved back to Bozeman, and that's when I got involved.

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Speaker 1: When when American Prairie was taking shape, like it's called

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Speaker 1: American Prairie Foundation at the time, what was the first step,

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Speaker 1: like the first step what had to have been like

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Speaker 1: a piece of land acquisition.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the first step was building a board of directors.

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Speaker 1: I guess the first tangible step.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, first yeah, So first step was building, building

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Speaker 2: a board, starting to raise money and then and then yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then acquiring property. The first property was the end

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Speaker 2: of two thousand for so that we were found in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and one. That was a pretty quick turn

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Speaker 2: to get the to get the organization up off the

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Speaker 2: off the ground, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, the thing that like on that property. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about that property purchase for a minute, because

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Speaker 1: this is the thing that always puzzles me about the

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Speaker 1: conversations that that people have around American prairie. Is it

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Speaker 1: like you guys have always been like willing sell or

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Speaker 1: willing buyer? Yes, okay, It's like if someone owns land.

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Speaker 1: Like most Americans, most Westerners would agree that if someone

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Speaker 1: owns a ranch and they designed their family decides that

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Speaker 1: it's time to sell the ranch, that that would be

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Speaker 1: their business.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Most people would agree with us that it would be

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Speaker 1: that when you want to sell a ranch, that's your call.

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Speaker 1: That there wouldn't be like a government entity would come

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Speaker 1: in and say you cannot sell that ranch. You must

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Speaker 1: hold on to that ranch. People would agree that you

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Speaker 1: should be able to do what you want. So you

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Speaker 1: list it m and you have a price, and no

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Speaker 1: one's holding a gun to your head, and you, as

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Speaker 1: a free American, like a free Westerner, takes their offers,

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Speaker 1: and you consider the offers that you have, you consider

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Speaker 1: the bids that you have, and you sell to the one.

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Speaker 1: Generally speaking, I think most people are going to sell

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Speaker 1: to the highest bidder, and they're going to sell to

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Speaker 1: the to who they choose right, And I would feel

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Speaker 1: that most Americans, most Westerners would be like that makes

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Speaker 1: sense to me. I think, yeah, they think they did

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Speaker 1: not if but oftentimes not if you guys buy it,

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Speaker 1: which to me is so weird because people like get

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Speaker 1: it's an ass like like I mean, just like frankly,

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Speaker 1: anyone doing any kind of major thing, like it becomes controversial,

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Speaker 1: like frankly, like you guys, I mean you can't deny it,

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Speaker 1: like you guys are a like somewhat controversial organization.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that qualifier. Yes, yes, no, they are, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: But it's just.

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Speaker 1: Like and and I have like all kinds of things

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Speaker 1: I wonder about, and I'll ask you those questions I

395
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Speaker 1: had thinks that I wont about. But it's like, foundationally,

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Speaker 1: it surprises me how many people are antagonistic to a

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Speaker 1: principle that they have to broadly support, which is like

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Speaker 1: that that if you want to sell a thing and

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Speaker 1: someone wants to buy a thing, whose business is it

400
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Speaker 1: besides the seller and the buyer. But people get so

401
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Speaker 1: worked up about who's buy It's like, that's not your problem,

402
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Speaker 1: Like that's that's kind of a view I have on

403
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Speaker 1: it is. I'm surprised that upsets people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree with everything you've said. I've got

405
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Speaker 2: this nine times now to.

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Speaker 1: My house and someone bought my house that later someone

407
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Speaker 1: will be mad. I'm like, dude, mind your own business

408
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Speaker 1: this well.

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Speaker 2: I think two things can be true, though, Steve. I

410
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Speaker 2: think they can say they can say, well, good for

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Speaker 2: my neighbor. My neighbor found a buyer who will pay

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Speaker 2: fair market value. My neighbor might have found a buyer

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Speaker 2: who has has agreed to lease back to them for

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Speaker 2: a number of years so they can have some transition

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Speaker 2: their family or transition their operation somewhere else.

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Speaker 3: They can say, can think, yes.

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Speaker 2: Good for my buyer, private market transaction, willing buyer, willing seller.

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Speaker 2: They can also be disappointed and wish that their new

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Speaker 2: neighbor was you know, was going to be it was

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Speaker 2: a cattle rancher or or was a different buyer right

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Speaker 2: and was not American prairie.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's change.

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Speaker 1: And if you were, if you were buying for a

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Speaker 1: data center, then I would understand people being pissed more.

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Speaker 1: I would better understand people being pissed. But if you

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Speaker 1: imagine that there's like there's a spectrum. Okay, there's a

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Speaker 1: spectrum being on one end of the spectrum is data center,

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Speaker 1: right or like I don't know, a data center, a

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Speaker 1: nuclear power plant, like whatever. There's a spectrum of refinery.

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Speaker 3: Okay, even a large residential development.

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Speaker 1: Maybe big a big residential big residential development. Yeah. Whatever

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Speaker 1: that's on one end would be like, oh man, that's

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Speaker 1: a bummer. Right On the other end would be on

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Speaker 1: the other end would be like habitat preservation and restoration,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like a more of a like

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Speaker 1: it's more of a like doing of not doing on

437
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: one end, and then over here is like data center.

438
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: And I would say that like running cattle sits very

439
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: close to the habitat thing. I'm a Kyle's not condos guy,

440
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: So I would put like running cattle over in this area,

441
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: data center over in this area out like housing development

442
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: this right right. So it's like the fact that you're

443
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: the fact that you guys buy land in order to

444
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: have it be just kind of like habitat seems to

445
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: me like sort of like uh, even like that reinforces

446
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: in my mind what would be like a non issue.

447
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: Well, I'm really glad you're raising this because I think

448
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: most of our neighbors, I know most of our neighbors

449
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: don't mind having us as a neighbor.

450
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 3: We have a lot in common.

451
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: And of course what gets you know, blown up, it's

452
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: the loudest voices is the is the controversy. But whether

453
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 2: there are cows on American prairie's lands or bison, and

454
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: there are a lot more cows than bison, and we

455
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: can talk about that.

456
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 3: The there's a lot of.

457
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: Common ground in the way that we're running our operations.

458
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 2: There's a lot of common uh, love and appreciation and

459
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: responsibility for the stewardship of these grasslands, the stewardship of

460
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: these grasslands for a lot of different whys, life species.

461
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: We're driving, we're buying the same trucks, we're using the

462
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: same fencing contractors. It is a there is a lot

463
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: a lot of common ground, and you don't you don't

464
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: see that common ground necessarily in a slogan, Right.

465
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, what in your mind, like if you had to

466
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: express it to somebody, what what in your mind is

467
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: the like what in your mind do people feel as

468
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: being lost on this from your perspective, what do they

469
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: feel is being lost on this? Like you know, sizable

470
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: piece of ground, but but not something on the scale

471
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: of like, uh, you know, not even on this it's

472
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: not even on the scale of what we have agreed

473
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: to be a wildlife refuge.

474
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think it's change, and it's

475
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: change that has been occurring on this landscape for decades

476
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: and it is.

477
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: Perceived as a loss of a way of life.

478
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: And there's been consolidation in you know, the consolidation of

479
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: land ownership over those decades, there has been uh, you know,

480
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: public lands ranching is a very very difficult business.

481
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: It's a very difficult business.

482
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: And there are a lot of global factors that are

483
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: are not that America Preer has nothing to do with,

484
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: that are putting pressure on the industry. And then an

485
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: organization comes in and UH is the the new kid

486
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: on the block. Is UH has different aims for their

487
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: their private lands and is bringing in a new species

488
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: like like buffalo and and and it represents it represents change.

489
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's new, a new old.

490
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, yes, exactly, a new old because because

491
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: bison or not, of course new to this landscape. But yeah,

492
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: I think I think that's I think that's really at

493
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: the root of it.

494
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: Hm, what what what do you how? What would you

495
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: say in conversation when like you did a great I

496
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: appreciate your ability to articulate that. A lot of people

497
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: I find don't the aren't comfortable articulating someone else's perspective.

498
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I'm not entirely No, I'm not

499
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: entirely comfortable too, because I'm I don't I'm I'm not,

500
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: you know, native to Phillips County, and I certainly have

501
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: spent a lot, a lot of time on that landscape.

502
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: And I've I've you know, I know a lot of

503
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: our neighbors, our team knows a lot of our neighbors.

504
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: I've I've heard the perspective articulated.

505
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: So I want to be, you know, somewhat careful of

506
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: putting words in people's mouths. But I I also see,

507
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: I grew up in a small town, and I know

508
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: how much small towns value community, value tradition. And you

509
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: see the one room schoolhouses, and you.

510
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: See, you know, you you you.

511
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 2: Hear about the traditions that some of which still exists,

512
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: that used to happen up there. Like one time we

513
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: were at one of the community halls and we're having

514
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: a big community feed.

515
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: It was really fun.

516
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: A bunch of American praier folks were there, and our

517
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: neighbors were there, and kids were all running around, and

518
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: the kids came out with a pole vault, like we're

519
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: in the middle of ranch country. I didn't a pole

520
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: vault of all things. And and I learned that there

521
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: used to be an event that these these community schools

522
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: that was a that was a track meet in or

523
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: spelling b in the morning and a track meet in

524
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: the afternoon, and like that's a really cool that's a

525
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: really cool community tradition right too, amongst all these these

526
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: country schools, of which there are not many anymore. And

527
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: so you know that human honoring that human heritage in

528
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: those kind of life ways on the prairie, whether they're

529
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 2: you know, indigenous and or for thousands of years or

530
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: if were there more recent were settling, ranching family for

531
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: number of generations, like that is important to American prairie

532
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: and recognizing that everyone's still out there and we together

533
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: can can look at what what what is the what

534
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: is the future of the landscape, What are our shared values?

535
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: What do we want this this place to look like?

536
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Those are the conversations that we that we want to

537
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: be having.

538
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: How many bison do you guys have on the ground

539
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: right now?

540
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: Nine and forty?

541
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: You know how many cattle in the state?

542
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: Uh, in this I know it's a lot more than

543
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: a lot more cattle than people.

544
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: And I know in the it's a couple of million. Yeah,

545
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: I was going to say two, nine hundred and forty.

546
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: And they're about a half million cattle in the seven

547
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: counties where we own land and on American Prairie's properties,

548
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: they're eight to ten thousand cattle. Because we're leasing that

549
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: we're leasing either to the former owner or leasing to

550
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: a neighbor on ten of our twelve units.

551
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can you remind me again the how many deeded

552
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: acres you have?

553
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: You're about one hundred and seventy thousd in deeded acres.

554
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: One hundred and seventy thousand deeded acres. And people you

555
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: allow people people can walk across like people can walk

556
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: on all that land.

557
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's all open. Yeah that people can walk.

558
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: They can cross always cross a couple of exceptions, like

559
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: right by our staff houses, but they can cross deeded

560
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: land to get to public land. We have dispersed camping,

561
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: and we can talk about that how how we open access.

562
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: But you know, we have eighty thousand acres enrolled in

563
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: block management in Montana in on those properties, So I.

564
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: Want to talk about that.

565
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can talk about that.

566
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the walking part though, just

567
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: for a minute, okay. Meaning if someone's going along on

568
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: on X, their cruising along and on X they see

569
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: all the land OWNERSHI would say American prairie. Right, So

570
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: if you see American prairie on on X, you'd able

571
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: to park. You can park your car and go walk around.

572
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: Yes.

573
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely, no one's gonna yell at you.

574
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: No one's gonna yell at you. No, Okay, they're going

575
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: to welcome.

576
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: You on the on the land that you have grazing leases.

577
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: The only thing you really have access to is you

578
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: just have the leasing right.

579
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: If you have, it's a leasing privilege.

580
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, leasing privilege meaning if if you have a lease

581
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: on BLM land, that doesn't have any factor on someone

582
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: going hunting birds on the BLM land doing whatever. Yeah,

583
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: it's just like great, your public lands. So when someone says,

584
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: when you say you have federal lands that are leased

585
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: b OLM lands, that are leased. What that means is

586
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: you have like you have like an exclusivity around grazing livestock. Yes, yes,

587
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: and that's it. It's not like you don't have like

588
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: like it doesn't come with mineral rights, it doesn't come

589
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: with with exclusive hunting rights. It's just is grazing.

590
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: That's that's exactly right, that's exactly right.

591
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: In this part of of well, across the west, but

592
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: particularly in this part of Montana, most ranching operations are made.

593
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: Their ranching operations are made up of about a third

594
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: deeded private acres and two thirds least acres, primarily Beila,

595
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: but there are state sections in there as well. And

596
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: the ranching operation depends on both that private land and

597
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: that public land. But as the owner of what's called

598
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: the base property, you have that preferential grazing privilege on

599
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: those associated public lands and the ten year renewable grazing

600
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: land renewable.

601
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: So when you buy a ranch, if that ranch has

602
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: a lease, the least transfers to the new buyer, exactly God,

603
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: And that's good until you if you renew it or not.

604
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to be a you have to pay

605
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: your grazing fees. Fees and be a good steward of

606
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: those lands and take care of that range land.

607
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: But yes, it's it. It continues to renew as long

608
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 3: as that you meet those conditions.

609
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Can can you explain it for me what I kind

610
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: of I mostly understand it, but I'd like to hear

611
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: you explain it. In the news lately, there's been this

612
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: this this I don't want to call it, there's been

613
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: this like policy shift of saying that if you lease

614
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: land and run, if you leave, if you have a

615
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: grazing lease, historically you would be able to graze, uh

616
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: buffalo on that ground. But there's a move now to

617
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: make it that you cannot. Yes, that's got to be just,

618
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: that's got to be just because that's got to be

619
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: just directed at you.

620
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, yes it is. Yes, it's directed just at us.

621
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: So that will not come up.

622
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 2: So going back to going back to and then we're

623
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: right in the middle of this. So the final decision

624
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: has not come out. There's a proposed decision from the

625
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: from the BLM. So this this grazing regime that I

626
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: just talked about, ties back to the nineteen thirty four

627
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 2: Grazing Act, the Taylor Grazing Act of nineteen thirty four,

628
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: and that Grazing Act was to to sort of make

629
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: sure we're taking good care of our range lands in

630
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: the West, and that's what established started this precedent of

631
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: these grazing privileges tied to base properties, the Taylor Grazing

632
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: Act and the and it's to support the livestock industry.

633
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: And that the Tailor Grazing Act, though does not say

634
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: what species, and bison have been Bison our livestock in Montana.

635
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: So important thing to say is that American Perrie's bison

636
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: are livestock and they are our private property.

637
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: We pay the.

638
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Livestock taxes on those, we pay obviously the grazing fees.

639
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 2: And we are not alone on in raising bison on

640
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: public lands. And so American Prairie has been permitted to

641
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: graze bison as livestock after environmental assessment is done on the.

642
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: Affected lands.

643
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: We've been we have been permitted to do that since

644
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: two thousand and five, so twenty years. And bison have

645
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: been grazing on public lands for forty years, and they

646
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: have been grazing in six states and there are about

647
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: forty permittees across those six states who are grazing bison

648
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: on these public lands.

649
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: And that's been happening for forty years.

650
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: It's been happening for forty years. For American prairier, it's

651
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 2: been happening for twenty years.

652
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: I need to pause on a thing just to help

653
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: listeners on this is the thing I talk about frequently,

654
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: but just to help listeners understand the thing is we

655
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: recently covered on the podcast this interesting move that Colorado made.

656
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: Colorado passed legislation that says if a if a buffalo

657
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: walks into the state of Colorado, like naturally walks in

658
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: on his own four hoofs, he's wildlife. Okay, but that

659
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: but that designation of them coming in from a like

660
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: walking in his wildlife. That designation doesn't impact privately owned ones,

661
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: which are regulated as livestock. Montana doesn't have an equivalent law.

662
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: Wyoming doesn't have an equivalent law to that, meaning when

663
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: they're on when they're in the state, they're regarded as

664
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: a livestock animal. This is me talking and not you talking.

665
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: Like I wholeheartedly disagree with that, like I think that,

666
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: I think that other states. And again this is Steve,

667
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: not Alison saying this. I would love to see like

668
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: Montana could be doing a lot more. Wyoming could be

669
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: doing a lot more to create room for buffalo to

670
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: be wildlife. They can be doing a lot more to

671
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: create buffalo space for them as a wildlife species, which

672
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: they are, but they're not legally regarded as wildlife. But

673
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: your point being, I think is important understand is that

674
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: you guys have animals. You have bison, but your bison

675
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: are like a they're legally livestock and so they're registered

676
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: as livestock. Like you have to be like each one

677
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: is a registered creature.

678
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: Well, we have to meet all the disease requirements and

679
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: they are fenced obviously, and we're meeting.

680
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: All the requirements of the Montana Department of Livestock. Yeah,

681
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: I think.

682
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: What I think a difference is you got you know

683
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: what it might be, and I want to continue, but

684
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: it's like part of the thing is you guys, uh

685
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: in my I in my view, there's a sort of

686
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: that you perceive of them as like you perceive of

687
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: them as wildlife, you're still able to imagine them as wildlife.

688
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: We manage them, and we absolutely manage them. We manage

689
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: them for their for their wild characteristics, in their display

690
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: of wild characteristics. But we are disease testing them, we

691
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,959
Speaker 2: are vaccinating them, we are keeping them home, we are

692
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: paying attention to stocking rates. We are remote, We're rounding

693
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 2: them up and running them through our handling facility, following

694
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: low stress techniques for sure, so that both we're paying

695
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 2: a lot of attention to human safety and animal safety,

696
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: but we are absolutely managing them. But this is you're

697
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: getting at the root of what the BLM is now said,

698
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: which is that our bison are not production animals and

699
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: they have not defined production they've never used a production

700
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: standard in the past. But they are saying they're arguing

701
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 2: that because our animals are not production animals, that that's

702
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 2: why they're proposing changing these bison grazing permits back to

703
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: cattle only grazing permits.

704
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: So just I want to make sure because I kind

705
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: of like made let's go off on that little livestock

706
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: wildlife thing, just just to get to re clarify a

707
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: point you made that forty years ago someone allowed. It

708
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: was decided that if you had a grazing a federal

709
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 1: grazing least, meaning you have the you have the right

710
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: to run your livestock on federally managed public land, say

711
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: BLM BLM ground. The BLM ground stays open to everybody.

712
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: You still hunt and hang out, do whatever you want

713
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: to do on there, but someone has the right to

714
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: graze it with their animals. Forty years ago, you could

715
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: your animals could be cattle, your animals could be bison, they.

716
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: Could be goats, they could be sheep.

717
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: Okay, yep on that thing. Time goes on and someone

718
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: right very recently is like, hey, wait a minute, I

719
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: don't like what's going on. I don't like this whole

720
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: bison thing going on up here. We should have it

721
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: be that that doesn't count.

722
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: Yes, And more specifically, in twenty nineteen, we put we

723
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: put in for a change of use request to change

724
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 2: to bison on six six federal allotments, and the BLM

725
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,959
Speaker 2: did a three year environmental analysis to determine that yes,

726
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: American Prairie could have these bison grazing permits on these

727
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: six allotments. Allotments are what the what the chunks of

728
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: BLM land are called. And they made that decision in

729
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: July of twenty twenty two.

730
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: Okay, what did the chatter? What does the environmental impact

731
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: statement turn up?

732
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: It turned up that the bison are good for the land.

733
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that that that that of course, you know,

734
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 2: the environmental impacts are are are good for the land,

735
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: and that the associo uh, the social and economic impacts

736
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: are are are good to basically, so they they did

737
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: a very thorough analysis. There was a public comment period. Obviously,

738
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: it was a three year process, so it was it

739
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: was thorough. And then that was immediately challenged by by

740
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 2: the Governor's office and a number of state agencies and

741
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: the Montana stock Growers. We were winning those challenges in

742
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: administrative court, and then the Bureau of Land Management pulled

743
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: back their decision and January said we're going to reevaluate this.

744
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: And then the following January, just this year, came out

745
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: with this new decision, with this new production requirement, with

746
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 2: this new way of looking at livestock, and just very

747
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: clickly nothing changed about our management, nothing changed about the

748
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: conditions on the ground. They are reinterpreting their own laws

749
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: and and and with a very thin fact pattern and

750
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: uh and you know, no legal precedents because this that

751
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: some of this has been challenged in the courts over

752
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: that those forty years and bison were an acceptable grazer

753
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: on these federal lands, and now they're proposing that they're not.

754
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: And I think one of the what we've seen is

755
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: that others are stepping forward to say, wait a minute,

756
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: what kind of precedent does this set if you are

757
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 2: building your business? And American Prairie's bison program is not inexpensive.

758
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: We've spent, we're spending We've spent hundreds of thousands of

759
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: dollars on fencing. We're spending we've spent millions and millions

760
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: of dollars on this program, and it's important part of

761
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 2: our business. But we've made a number of business decisions.

762
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: We've made commitments to other conservation herds to distribute animals,

763
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: and so we've built a lot of our We made

764
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: a lot of business decisions right based on.

765
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: The way things had been.

766
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: And so do you hear people making that slippery slope argument,

767
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: like what's to say keep a future administration from just

768
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: arbitrarily changing the rules and what does this mean for

769
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: other bison herds? And the Coalition of Large Tribes wrote

770
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: a compelling protests saying what impact could this have on

771
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 2: tribal herds?

772
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 3: And do the.

773
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: Tribes have herds that graze on federal lands.

774
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: They do, they do, and they recognize that. They also

775
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: recognize that American Prairie has you know, we're not an

776
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: indigenous led organization, but we are part of this brison

777
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: conservation family right team, continent wide, and we have distributed,

778
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, six hundred and sixty bison to other

779
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: conservation hurts. There's a lot of exchange of genetics, exchange

780
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: of animals. We've helped start conservation herds. And so if

781
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: you take you hamstring American Prairie's ability to do that,

782
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: the tribes pointed that out. They also pointed out that

783
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: American Prairie's management back to your point about the way

784
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: that we manage our bison, for you know, minimal handling,

785
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: low stocking, rates as natural the landscape as possible, that

786
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: that that is in the that is in the indigenous

787
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: tradition and that and the protest even says that, but that,

788
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: you know, the American Prairie's way of managing is similar

789
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: to the way that tribal herds are managed.

790
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: What uh on? The thing that the productions question and

791
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: forgive me from not understanding the proposal, the change, like

792
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: the wording change, is the gripe that it's is the

793
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: gripe that it's or is the gripe that it's not

794
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: that it's not that they're not being raised with meat

795
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: production in mind.

796
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: The latter more the latter, Okay, yeah, yeah, they're saying, yeah,

797
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: they're saying that that they need to be production animals,

798
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: and so their their disregard. So our response to this

799
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: protest was, this production standard is brand new. It's nowhere

800
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: in the regulations or the case law. But if there

801
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 2: was a production standard, what is that production standard? Because

802
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 2: not only is American Prairie distributing these animals to other herds,

803
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 2: other herds, many of whom are are food sovereignty herds,

804
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: so are absolutely.

805
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 3: You know, those animals are consumed.

806
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: American Prarie also has a robust public harvest program and

807
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: we have three hundred and seventy of our animals have

808
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: been harvested by the public, and that's.

809
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: Tens of thousands of pounds of meat. And so.

810
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 2: This idea that the BLM is going to come in

811
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 2: and dictate exactly how you manage your animals for production,

812
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: and they're only going to do it for this one species,

813
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: for cows. They're not going to do it for bison

814
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: or for excuse me, for bison, They're not going to

815
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: do it for cows. Is is really hard to get

816
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: your head around, right, Calibroducers are like are going some

817
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: calibrators are reducing their stocking rates for conservation purposes? Right?

818
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 3: Does that is it?

819
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 2: Would that make their would they not be meeting some

820
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: sort of standard? So that's that's our argument is this

821
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: isn't anywhere in the case law, This isn't anywhere in

822
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: the regulations, and what does production even mean?

823
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: So what will happen next on this whole thing?

824
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 2: So there was a fifteen day protest period. We protested,

825
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: as I mentioned a number of other organizations, and then

826
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 2: the BLM has forty five days to issue a final decision.

827
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: That final decision could come down any day now, and

828
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: then we will, you know, assuming that their final decision

829
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: is the same as their proposed decision, we will we

830
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: will challenge this in both the administrative and the federal courts.

831
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: What do you think that what do you think the

832
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: final decision is going to be same?

833
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, we think it's going to be the same.

834
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: Just sticking it to you.

835
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: You know, I, Steve, I what I do want to

836
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: focus on is that right now those animals are out

837
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 2: on the same lands that we have not had to

838
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: change our operations.

839
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: We have contingency plans.

840
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: We have contingency plans A through F right and they're

841
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 2: expensive and their time consuming, but we have a plan

842
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: to take care of those animals and to do so safely.

843
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: And we're our missions moving forward, right We're going to

844
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: continue to buy habitat, We're going to continue to welcome

845
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 2: the public that habitat, We're going to continue to restore habitat,

846
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: We're going to continue to raise bison. So while it

847
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: may look in the public sphere like this is all

848
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: American Purrier is focused on right now, it is. It

849
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: is far from what all we are focused on right now.

850
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: We're focused on moving our mission forward. And I think

851
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 2: that's been one of the most comforting things about being

852
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 2: part of this organization.

853
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 3: Leading this organization.

854
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 2: We get to look decades down the road.

855
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: It's still a kick to the nuts, though, but I

856
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: understand you guys still keep looking forward though. Yeah, I

857
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: mean this has been it's been fascinating to watch man.

858
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean yeah, probably not that's right the

859
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: word you would use for it.

860
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a it's a it's a hiccup,

861
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: it's a hurdle, it's it's expensive, you know, it's time consuming,

862
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: but we're we're committed to buy some conservation.

863
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the access programming state. Yeah, Okay, I'm

864
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: gonna tell you a bunch of stuff you already know

865
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: because I'm just telling the listeners. This. In the state

866
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: of Montana, like like like, like many states, the state

867
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: has an access They have a handful of access programs,

868
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: hunting access programs. One of their hunting access they're kind

869
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: of the main marquee hunting access programs called the block

870
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: management program where you have again, this is like a

871
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: willing willing seller, willing buyer situation. Uh. The state Fishing

872
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: Game Agency, they raise funds. They fund their agency through

873
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: hunting license sales, tags and stamps. Right. Uh, they're able

874
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: to take some of that money that they get from

875
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: selling hunting licenses. I think a big chunk of the

876
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: funding comes from selling non resident hunting licenses, and they're

877
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: able to they make a pool of money. If a

878
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: landowner is willing to allow hunting access on their land,

879
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: they can they can get compensated by the state, right, Okay,

880
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: So then a public hunter can wind up. They're they're

881
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: administered in different ways, like you need to get some

882
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: of you just go out and hunt. You sign up

883
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: at a sign up box. Some you need to get

884
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: a reservation. But however it works. They're administered in different ways,

885
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: but however it works. The hunter, no cost to them,

886
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 1: is able to go a hunt. These block management lands

887
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 1: usually usually some usually a lot of agricultural lands, ranch land,

888
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: farm country. No cost to them. The state compensates the landowner.

889
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: You guys, do you guys have some enrollment in black management?

890
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: What's like like sort of like organizationally, what is your

891
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: what is your attitude about the black management program and enrollment, like,

892
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: like how do you side what's how do you decide

893
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: what's in, what's out? How much is in? How much

894
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: is out?

895
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, philosophically, what we would like to

896
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 2: see over time is larger wildlife populations on these lands.

897
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: They're not at their ecological carrying capacity. We fully support hunting.

898
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: We provide a lot of hunting access, and what we're

899
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 2: going for is a quality hunt, right, So fewer people

900
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: quality hunt, right. So we have a group within the

901
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 2: organization called park the Public Access and Recreation Committee, and

902
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: any time and they they set they set or make

903
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 2: our public access policies, whether that's about what roads are open,

904
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: what hunting access is allowed, what species are allowed on

905
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: a particular property. And they're using a lot of data

906
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: and input from f to BP and from others to

907
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 2: make those to make those recommendations for those properties, and

908
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 2: then those go to the leadership team to approve. So

909
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: anytime we buy a new property, and we bought six

910
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: last year, they spend about a year getting to know

911
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: that property right, getting to know the roads, getting to

912
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 2: know the infrastructure, working with the less see whether that's

913
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: the existing LESSI or a new LESSI, and understanding how

914
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: we're going to open it up to the public. But

915
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: within a year, our goal is to open that property

916
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: up to the public.

917
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: And so each of.

918
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: Our units has a has a different has a different

919
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: different management. A lot of it is what's called type

920
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: two block management. Type one is the sign in box.

921
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 2: Type two is call in and make a reservation. So

922
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: right now we have about eighty thousand acres enrolled in

923
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: block management, which makes us I believe it's the tenth

924
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: largest participant in the entire state in the block management program.

925
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: So you can go at our website really clearly spells

926
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: out which properties you know, what the what hunting is

927
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: allowed on the properties, how to make a reservation, and

928
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: F TOPP is a great partner in managing all of that.

929
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: We've done.

930
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: We have one property where we manage the hunting access

931
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: ourselves and we've experimented with this in the past and

932
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 2: having a partner like F TOBP to do that, to

933
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: manage it, to take those calls, to make those reservations,

934
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: let alone to do the the enforcement, have the wardens

935
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: on the ground. That's that's tremendously beneficial to us.

936
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: One of the things that makes one of the things

937
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: that makes black management work is it gives the a

938
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 1: landowner can sign up in degrees. Yes, okay, So let's

939
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: say you're a landowner and for whatever reason you have,

940
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, you have a thing where you could never

941
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: imagine any scenario on which someone hurting a turkey was acceptable.

942
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: You had like a great affinity for turkeys. You could

943
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: say that, hey, I want to do black management, but

944
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: here's the deal, no turkeys, right, and the state's going

945
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: to go along. There's a I believe there's a point

946
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: at which the restrictions get so great that they don't

947
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: that that is that it's not worth the participation for them. Yes, yes,

948
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: but but but you guys are but American prairie though

949
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: you have a lot of things, like your restrictions are

950
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: much different than the state's hunting restrictions, Like you have

951
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: big areas that are open to black management, but they're

952
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: not open to mule deer.

953
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I was gonna use meal deer as an example.

954
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: That's you.

955
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 2: I think it was with Saner Heinrich that you were

956
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: talking about mual deer populations, right, So it's I believe

957
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 2: it's north of the River region six where we don't

958
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: allow any meal deer hunting, and that's because of what

959
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: the data says about the meal deer populations. So yeah,

960
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: we're making those species determinations on a on a property

961
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 2: by property basis, but we're allowing a lot of access

962
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 2: and thousands and thousands and thousands of hundred days each year.

963
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead, Oh no, no, I imagine that as you see,

964
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: like across the West, as we see white tail numbers

965
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: like just generally broad like wide scale increase in white

966
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: tail numbers decrease and milder numbers. Most your lands are

967
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: open for white tails. Most of your lands are closed

968
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: for meal deer, even if the state is allowing mildier

969
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: hunts in those areas. Yeah, now what like, is most

970
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: of the stuff open for pheasant m yep, because that

971
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: would be easy because it's a non native bird.

972
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, most of the stuff.

973
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 2: There's we have some incredible l hunting opportunities, uh in

974
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: the Larb Hills in Region six. We actually that's the

975
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: one we manage on our own.

976
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: We do.

977
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: We do a.

978
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: Special draw that's a special draw district within for F

979
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: to BP and then we allow I think it's about

980
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: eighteen opportunities and that is a coveted opportunity. There's some

981
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: youth opportunities in there. But so yeah, it's property by property.

982
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: It is a year, year by year, but it all

983
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: reflects our commitment to hunting and to public access.

984
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: How does it normally work? How like, if you guys

985
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: did six land acquisitions last year, what's your sort of

986
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: batting average on land acquisitions? I mean, like how many

987
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: like in the area where you're operating, how many listings

988
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: are there in a year? Would you say, yeah, and

989
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: of those listings, how many are you interested in? And

990
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: of the ones you're interested in, how many do you close?

991
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: So six was a lot of transactions for us. That

992
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 3: was a very big year.

993
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: We added about seventy eight thousand acres through those six

994
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 2: transactions last year. And I definitely want to talk a

995
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: bit about the Anchor Ranch because that was the biggest

996
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: of those of those transactions. That sixty seven thousand of

997
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: those seventy eight thousand acres was the the Anchor Ranch.

998
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know how to We're not

999
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: talking about a lot of properties, right, Like, on average,

1000
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: we've probably been adding two three properties per year. There

1001
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: is often competition for those properties. We don't get every

1002
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: single one of them. And you know, in some cases,

1003
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 2: these are family decisions that are that are made over

1004
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: whether it's a resident landowner or an out of state landowner.

1005
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: They're decisions that are made out over a number of years. Right,

1006
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: So a number of these properties we've been talking to

1007
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 2: landowner for for a number of years.

1008
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 3: So it's hard to it's hard to say sort of

1009
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 3: like you know, the.

1010
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: Sample size is so small, it's hard to say a

1011
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 2: true batting average.

1012
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 3: But hopefully that's a little bit helpful.

1013
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: But some presumably some don't work out.

1014
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't work out.

1015
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, the landowner wants a price that we that is

1016
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: not fair market value, and we're not we're not willing

1017
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: to pay it.

1018
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: How often do you run into a landowner that would

1019
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: be like, hey, your BID's higher, but I'm choosing to

1020
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: accept less money from a traditional cattle rancher.

1021
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we don't because none of this is public information.

1022
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: We don't know what other people are paying, right right.

1023
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 2: We know what we know a lot about the market

1024
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: from from appraisal data. We know a lot about the

1025
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 2: market from brokers. We're spending a lot of time figuring

1026
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: out sort of what is the the the truth, the

1027
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: fair market value we're getting appraisals. We have no interest

1028
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 2: in paying above fair market value because we have more

1029
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: property to buy and we have to raise every single

1030
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: dollar that goes into to each of those of those acquisitions.

1031
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 1: What's your like, what's the organization's like timeline? Like how

1032
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: long you This is going to lead to another question

1033
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: and like what is the plan? But like like how

1034
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: long are you guys? Do you know what I mean? Like,

1035
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: how long can you imagine being solvent and like continuing

1036
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: the mission for do you know what I'm saying.

1037
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: I mean we we intend to we intend to fulfill

1038
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 2: the mission of the organization.

1039
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: And yes, like in all seriousness, if you had to say,

1040
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: like it'll take, it would take like roughly how long.

1041
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: Oh, the acquisition phase will be additional decades, more decades,

1042
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: more decades.

1043
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, more decades. As the land comes available, we

1044
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 3: will purchase it.

1045
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 2: And in the meantime we will continue to steward and

1046
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: restore and open to the public what we what we have,

1047
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 2: But there is not you know there.

1048
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: I think what what.

1049
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 2: I've always appreciated on American period is that there are

1050
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: a lot of ways to measure progress. There are a

1051
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: lot of numbers that I could throw at you, whether

1052
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: that's you know what the the most obvious, of course

1053
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 2: is acres added. But we track visitor nights, like we

1054
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: have two campgrounds and a series of public huts. They're

1055
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: open to the public, and that those numbers are increasing

1056
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 2: every year we have because last year about six hundred

1057
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: six six hundred overnight visitors at our properties. So we

1058
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: are tracking miles of stream restored, We're tracking fence removal,

1059
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: and fence conversion. We have we have a staff member

1060
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: who tracks the tonnage of metal that he's removing from

1061
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 2: the prairie, right because part of you know, the the

1062
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 2: d sort of juncifying the landscape. You know, that's when

1063
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 2: you're removing an old dump or you know, you're auctioning

1064
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 2: off an old building that's not needed anymore. Like we're

1065
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 2: we're measuring that. So there are a lot of ways

1066
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 2: to measure progress, and we're not holding ourselves. We don't

1067
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: need to hold ourselves to a firm timeline to complete

1068
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 2: the acquisition. Obviously, the longer it takes, more expensive it is,

1069
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: and the more money we need to raise. But it's

1070
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 2: it's not like on an annual basis or even a

1071
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: five year basis. We certainly set goals, but but some

1072
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: of those some of those milestones are or target milestones

1073
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 2: are are not in our control.

1074
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 3: And that's okay.

1075
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: You realize visitation can backfire, right, I mean that was

1076
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: like that like with Yellowstone, Dude, it's like Yellowstones like

1077
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: a nightmare.

1078
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean I live in the state.

1079
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: I know that, but like that needs to be turned

1080
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: into a wilderness area there there every time my whole plan.

1081
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: It's big, a big trailhead. I'm going to keep anything

1082
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: that any highway that goes through it, I'm going to keep.

1083
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: This is if I'm ever emperor. Okay, the bisecting highways

1084
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: I'll keep open. I would dismantle all the infrastructure. I

1085
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: would keep the highways that go through open. I would

1086
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: put in large trail heads here and there, and the

1087
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: whole thing be a wilderness area, just unpark it. It's

1088
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: a very controversial idea, no, I mean very constru I

1089
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: was going to say, my kid's been yelled at because

1090
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: I have this viewpoint. Your dad wants to but he

1091
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: doesn't understand what wilderness area is. It would be, it

1092
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: would be it would protect the park more. You follow me.

1093
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: I'm just saying visitation can backfire. I mean that place

1094
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:24,919
Speaker 1: is a case. Oh oh yeah.

1095
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 2: But there they have four was it five million visitors

1096
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: last year and we're talking maybe ten thousand.

1097
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: So ten billions. Let me know what I might warrant.

1098
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: That's the point you're making, which is you can be

1099
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 2: really thoughtful about where you put infrastructure. And you know,

1100
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 2: I did a tour of Yellowstone, sort of behind the

1101
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: scenes tour, and I was reminded that that figure eight

1102
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: road and the lot the placement of lodge is is

1103
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: because that's how long a carriage ride was. That was

1104
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 2: seventeen miles, nineteen miles, And so that part the ark

1105
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,479
Speaker 2: was built for visitors in that way, with the gas

1106
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 2: stations and the and the and the lodges and the

1107
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of roads, right, it's not

1108
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 2: just a lot of roads, a lot of roads.

1109
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: Now I understand when my plan comes in, I'm not

1110
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: going to mess with any kind of flow through traffic.

1111
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to mess with interstate traffic.

1112
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say take take twenty through Idaho.

1113
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, all that's gonna be fine. That's not going to

1114
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: be interrupted. Just so people are clear on this. Do

1115
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: you guys have like a you guys have like you

1116
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: get funding, like you don't fund Yeah, you have a

1117
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: network of donors obviously probably.

1118
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 3: Globally, right, we mostly in the United States.

1119
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 2: I think three percent of our dollars race have come

1120
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 2: from outside of the states, really outside of the country.

1121
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: And we've had donors from all fifty states. It's not

1122
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 2: all fifty states every year, but and about fifteen percent

1123
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 2: of our money last year came from Montana.

1124
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: Okay, And when you do an acquisition, you don't fundraise

1125
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: specifically around an acquisition. You fundraise on the mission.

1126
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes your fundraised for an acquisition. Yeah, sometimes we fundraise

1127
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: for an acquisition. Yep, we've you know, we're fundraising to

1128
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: support the organization's ongoing operations and stewarding those six hundred

1129
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 2: thousand acres and supporting our team of fifty people and

1130
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: all the roles that they play right in keeping a

1131
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 2: nonprofit going. And then we're and then we're fundraising for acquisition,

1132
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 2: and then we are also fundraising for an endowment because

1133
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 2: we once we are through with this acquisition phase, we

1134
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: envision and endowment large enough to take care of the

1135
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 2: basic operations of the place. There'll be some revenue generating activities,

1136
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,439
Speaker 2: for sure, but we want that endowment to be able

1137
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: to pay the taxes and support the Bison Hurd and

1138
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: take care of the operations.

1139
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 1: One thing I think people under about, and maybe you

1140
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: can't even answer it. It's like I think people wonder, like,

1141
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: what what is the ultimate Let's let's go forward a century, Okay,

1142
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: what is American prairie in one hundred years? Is it

1143
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: a park?

1144
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 3: No capital p park capital.

1145
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: Is there ever point, like, is it ever a point

1146
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: where you'd go like, ha, we're done, And then and

1147
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: then and then there's a when there's a favorable like administration,

1148
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: you'd be like, ha, we're done, and you'd be like,

1149
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: we now are handing this over. This is this is

1150
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: the national park that we did that they didn't think

1151
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: to create, but we made it.

1152
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 2: No, we believe that a public private partnership collaboration is

1153
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 2: the right solution for this landscape.

1154
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: We will that would work in perpetuity.

1155
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 3: I think it can work in perpetuity.

1156
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: And I think if you book at the condition of

1157
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 2: our parks in the backlog, I think that there's a

1158
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: real opportunity to have multiple landowners at the table, meaning

1159
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 2: a private landowner and these agencies managing toward toward common goals,

1160
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 2: towards those common wildlife and public access goals.

1161
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: What I wonder about, though, is like, because it's so

1162
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: hard to anticipate right political changes, you don't.

1163
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,560
Speaker 3: Need to tell me that.

1164
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 1: That like, and even if it was the plan, I

1165
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: don't I think it'd be like hard if you guys

1166
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 1: talk about it publicly, you follow me, yeah, yeah, because

1167
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 1: you'd want you'd keep it.

1168
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: Secret, right, But I I that is that is not

1169
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: the plan. But do I have a crystal ball for

1170
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: one hundred years? Like let's talk about bison. Yeah, what

1171
01:08:58,320 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 2: are bison going to be?

1172
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: Is gonna be? Here's my prediction. There's gonna be more

1173
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: in one hundred years. This is my prediction. Karinn and

1174
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: I have been arguing a lot and not arguing, texting

1175
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: back and forth about she hates polymarkets, doesn't hate them.

1176
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: She just addiction, sure, okay, noth she I don't want

1177
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: to put words in her mouth. She views prediction markets

1178
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: as a as a very volatile industry. As people are like,

1179
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: there's this new thing, like, what are the regulations gonna be?

1180
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: Like she it's taking shape.

1181
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

1182
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm kind of curious about them.

1183
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: She's sort of curious about what their future holds. What

1184
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: they need to figure out is how to do long

1185
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: term wagers like I would make a one hundred year wager

1186
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: that would benefit my children's children when I won. Mm hmm, right,

1187
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: that's like the bet I would make. So this is

1188
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: one of those for the when we build like the

1189
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: way ass future prediction market thing, which is like a

1190
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: state planning yes, years. Okay, it's like a state planning.

1191
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: If I could do that, I would put a lot

1192
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: of money on this. If there was a reliable way

1193
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: to make one hundred year bets that would benefit my

1194
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 1: children's children when I proved to be right, Okay, six, Yeah,

1195
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: I would bet there are I don't want to say

1196
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: a lot. There are quite a bit more. There are

1197
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: quite a bit more wild free roaming buffalo on the

1198
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: landscape that can cross political jurisdictions, that can freely cross

1199
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: political jurisdictions, that are wildlife that are treated as wildlife wildlife. Yeah,

1200
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: there will be more. There's more of that. There's more

1201
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: of that.

1202
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 3: It's our National mammal Steve.

1203
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: That was tooless. It came with nothing. It came with nothing.

1204
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 1: It was the biggest I was glad. I was glad,

1205
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: but let's be honest. It meant nothing. It meant nothing.

1206
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: It was purely symbolic.

1207
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 3: Yes, but I hope it reminds.

1208
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 2: It reminds our citizens of this natural heritage and of

1209
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 2: what we had on the landscape.

1210
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: You need to be suspicious. You know you've been alive

1211
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,560
Speaker 1: long enough to be suspicious. You need to be suspicious

1212
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 1: of anything that's frictionless. There wasn't like like when they

1213
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 1: were going like, hey, it's gonna be the national mammal.

1214
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: There wasn't like an opposition. Yeah, okay, and if there's

1215
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: no opposition, then you must realize that it means nothing. Yeah,

1216
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: it was cool.

1217
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 2: I was glad, but but you also I don't know

1218
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 2: when this study. I don't think the study was repeated recently,

1219
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 2: but there was a study looking at Montana's and that

1220
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 2: Montana's wanting to see bison in the way that you

1221
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 2: are describing in this state, and it was well over

1222
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 2: sixty percent wanted that. So I do believe that that

1223
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: that people want to see bison back on the landscape.

1224
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 3: Even though leading.

1225
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 2: A private effort, we're facing this resistance. It could feel

1226
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 2: like if a private organization raising private dollars to raise

1227
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 2: a private herd is facing this resistance. Certainly, certainly your

1228
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: dream isn't isn't going to happen immediately, but but I

1229
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 2: hope it would be before twenty one.

1230
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 3: Twenty six.

1231
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: Quite a bit more. What did I say, Not a lot,

1232
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: but a bit more, Quite a bit more.

1233
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,959
Speaker 3: It was really real squishy, real squishy.

1234
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: My view on stuff, my view on things is like

1235
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 1: I have this sort of deal where like from a

1236
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: professional standpoint, okay, like from a professional standpoint, as someone

1237
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: who advocates about the outdoor lifestyle, hunting and fishing, wildlife conservation.

1238
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: My sort of professional promise is that, like, I look

1239
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: at situations taking place, the political landscape, the conservation world, whatever,

1240
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: and I try to be like, what is in the

1241
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: best interest what is in the best interest of hunters

1242
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: and anglers an outdoorsman? Okay, and no one's perfect, but

1243
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: I try to strip out and explaining things to people,

1244
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: I try to strip out the other considerations that might

1245
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: come in to being I'll give you a case in point,

1246
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 1: talking about an impenetrable border wall between US and Mexico.

1247
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:09,599
Speaker 1: I would view my professional obligation would be to speak

1248
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:14,480
Speaker 1: to what it means for wildlife. Yes, my professional obligation

1249
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: is not to talk about what it would mean for employment,

1250
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: what it would mean for the fruit industry, farming industry,

1251
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: hospitality industry, employment, Like right, So I gotta go like, okay,

1252
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: never mind, I got to forget all my opinions about that,

1253
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: and I need to talk about what it means for

1254
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 1: wildlife and impenetrable walls ain't great for wildlife. So I

1255
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 1: have to then say, to be honest with myself and

1256
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: to be true to my mission, I have to say,

1257
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: like an impenetrable wall between us in Mexico is going

1258
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: to impair and impede wildlife movements and be kind of

1259
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: that's bad for hunters, right. But here's another thing. It's

1260
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 1: also bad for hunters that if we have tons of

1261
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 1: illegal immigration and you have to have an exaggerated federal

1262
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: state presence on the landscape dealing with all that, that's

1263
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: an impact on wildlife, right, So that has to be considered.

1264
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: So you know what I'm saying, It gets complicated. When

1265
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 1: I look at American prairie, you look like you're uncomfortab.

1266
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm settling in for this.

1267
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 1: When I look to American prairie, I just want what

1268
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: I want, what I wish there would be, and I

1269
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: know you can't do it. I wish there would be

1270
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,879
Speaker 1: that like written in the charter is like a promise

1271
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 1: to hunters and anglers that it would be memorialized, that

1272
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 1: there would be a deal codified, right, and that then

1273
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: people would look and be like, yeah, I know, it's

1274
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of weird what they're doing. Or whatever. But like

1275
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 1: they stand and buy hunters and anglers. Yeah, but you

1276
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 1: can't because it's too complicated.

1277
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 3: Well you're not.

1278
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 2: So where I thought you were going to go is

1279
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 2: some sort of you know, public access easement. And the

1280
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 2: reason that the reason that those are tricky for us

1281
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 2: is because we don't know what land will ultimately own,

1282
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 2: and when you put an easement on it.

1283
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:29,719
Speaker 3: You reduce its value.

1284
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 2: And we're trying to borrow against our our existing properties

1285
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 2: and we don't we we could sell something that's on

1286
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 2: the you know, if we if we concentration of land

1287
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 2: ends up over here, we could you could sell something.

1288
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,680
Speaker 2: So I'm not going we don't want to hamstring a

1289
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 2: future management team by by doing a an easement. At

1290
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 2: this point, we do have conservation easements on our property.

1291
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 2: We've inherited conservation easements. We're not anti easement. We can

1292
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 2: work with them. But that that that's sort of the

1293
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 2: but if and what we say is look at our

1294
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 2: track record, right like, look at what we've done for

1295
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 2: the last twenty years of owning land, and it's increased access,

1296
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 2: it's increased hunting opportunity.

1297
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 3: That will continue.

1298
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 2: But but but you're not the first to suggest some

1299
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 2: sort of contract with Montana or or Charter and that

1300
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 2: that's I think that goes beyond a communications tool, right,

1301
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 2: It's it's it is. It reflects a conversation and a commitment.

1302
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:33,719
Speaker 2: And so it's not it's not a terrible idea.

1303
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,799
Speaker 1: No, it's not terrible idea. It's a great idea. Because

1304
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 1: that's like when I was saying down the road, if

1305
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: you viewed it like if if if we started out

1306
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 1: our conversation we were talking about parks, right, they didn't

1307
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: do one of those, right. But I think that if

1308
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 1: there was imagined a if there was a managined a

1309
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: large area, that would be the aim was to make

1310
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 1: it a increase wildlife, better habitat with like with a

1311
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: open to regulated hunting activities in accordance with state objectives

1312
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: and perpetuity. I think that that that a lot that

1313
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 1: some of the tension would trickle away.

1314
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hear you.

1315
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: I also that that's kind of what's happening right now

1316
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 2: on six hundred thousand acres, right. And And I don't

1317
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 2: know if the tension Steve comes as much from that

1318
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 2: from we are seeing more support from hunters and anglers

1319
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 2: and less doubt and less skepticism and more appreciation. And

1320
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 2: I think think you know, there are a lot of

1321
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 2: conservation efforts in this state. Some of them are species focused,

1322
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: some of them are regionals but regionally focused. Some of

1323
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 2: them are pay our private lands focused, working private landowners.

1324
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 3: I don't think there's anyone.

1325
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 2: There isn't anyone who is creating the access that we're

1326
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 2: creating in every single year, right the access to our

1327
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 2: deeded land, the access through our deeded land to public lands.

1328
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 2: I mean, the response to our purchase of the Anchor

1329
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 2: Ranch was astonishing.

1330
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: Well, that was an important thing.

1331
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 2: It was, And for those who don't know, we immediately

1332
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 2: opened a three point nine mile private road, the gate

1333
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 2: to a three point nine mile private road that access

1334
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 2: fifty thousand.

1335
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 3: Acres the Bulwacker Road.

1336
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 2: That that opened fifty thousand acres of public land that

1337
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 2: was that wasn't accessible.

1338
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 3: I mean, it was accessible for the very hardy.

1339
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 2: But now it is accessible through this road and gate

1340
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 2: was there was no trespassing. Signs were immediately taken down

1341
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 2: and that gate was immediately thrown open.

1342
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 1: War it's right there. They crossed in there, it's right there.

1343
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 3: I was standing there this fall with my family.

1344
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, forward there they crossed. There's a bit of creek. Yeah,

1345
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a shootout down there, but it

1346
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 1: wasn't that big of a deal. But they crossed there.

1347
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is tremendous, tremendous country. It is that

1348
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 2: that that whole Cow Creek drainage and.

1349
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 3: The footholes of the bear's paw there.

1350
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 2: So ageain not a bad idea, but I but our

1351
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 2: track record is that was.

1352
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 1: Widely that was in my community. That was that was celebrated.

1353
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and you know we we It just happened

1354
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 2: that we made that announcement right before the Choke Cherry

1355
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: Festival in Lewistown and we always have a booth at

1356
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 2: the Joke Cherry Festival. Our building on Main Street is open,

1357
01:20:54,960 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 2: our Discovery centers open during it, and hundreds of people.

1358
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 3: Came by to say thank you. We noticed that, thank you.

1359
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 2: So so that's what we will, that's what we're doing,

1360
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 2: and that's what we will continue to do.

1361
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: What uh, how long how long will you stick with this?

1362
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: You think?

1363
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm still having so much fun, like

1364
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 3: you enjoy it? Oh, it's so Yeah.

1365
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 2: First of all, it's an amazing team, right, We've got

1366
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 2: We've got an incredibly talented team. I was up with

1367
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 2: our our bison team the week before last and I

1368
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 2: either we have two new team members on that in

1369
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 2: that group, both females, which is cool. And I hadn't

1370
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 2: seen our new handling facility and the new design of

1371
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 2: the handling facility.

1372
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:45,719
Speaker 3: And they're world class. They are world class.

1373
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 2: And the way that they're managing those animals in the

1374
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 2: the way that they're adapting the way that our management

1375
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 2: to to take good care of the animals and make

1376
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 2: sure people are safe too. So it's a it's an

1377
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 2: incredible team. We've got an incredible board. We have supporters

1378
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 2: around the country who believe in this mission, believe in

1379
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 2: this idea, care about this landscape, care about the wildlife

1380
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 2: and the human communities. And I get to interact with

1381
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 2: all of them. So it's challenging and it's a it's

1382
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,920
Speaker 2: a lot of nights away from home and whether they're

1383
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 2: up in whether I'm I'm spending them up in more

1384
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 2: Central Montana or around the country. But as long as

1385
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 2: as long as the board wants me, I will, I

1386
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 2: will be here.

1387
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:31,719
Speaker 1: How big is you, guys? Bored?

1388
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 3: It's twenty two. Okay, yep, twenty two from all over

1389
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 3: the country, handful of Montanas.

1390
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: You're gonna bring my suggestions to the board.

1391
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. They'll hear you.

1392
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: They'll hear them because they'll be vetting how well you do? Yeah, yeah,

1393
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: what what did I not ask you about that? When

1394
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: you get vetted? What did I not ask about that?

1395
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: You wish I would have asked you about You can just

1396
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 1: answer it.

1397
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 3: We've covered a lot. We have covered a lot.

1398
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 2: I guess I would just say, come visit us, and

1399
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 2: you know, we're certainly we have a lot of people

1400
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,719
Speaker 2: hunting out there. That is our number one recreational activity,

1401
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 2: but wildlife watching is a close second. Our vice president

1402
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 2: of Recreation and Access follows all the trends in Montana,

1403
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,759
Speaker 2: and you know, scenic drives and camping and wildlife watching

1404
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 2: and birding and floating the rivers are all are all

1405
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:28,840
Speaker 2: incredible activities to do out there.

1406
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: So, you know, I thought it was interesting about you guys.

1407
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: You mentioned wildlife viewing. Well, I thought was interesting about

1408
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,799
Speaker 1: you guys. Is like now and then, just for people listening,

1409
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: now and then grizzlies will kind of come out of

1410
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: the grizzlies will kind of come out of the rockies

1411
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: up in the north part of the state and they'll

1412
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: they'll strike out east, you know, out onto the great plains,

1413
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: and like what people dose track of, is it historically

1414
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 1: that was a great planes animal?

1415
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

1416
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: Coster and his chief scout, Bloody Knife. I mean they

1417
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:05,439
Speaker 1: killed a grizzly out in South Dakota, right, I mean

1418
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 1: grizzlies were you know, you think of all these big

1419
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 1: grizzly maulings like Hugh Glass when he got mauled and

1420
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: the story that was told in the Revenant, he got

1421
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: malled out on the plains like they were a plain's animal.

1422
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: When Lewis and Clark ran into grizzly bears.

1423
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,640
Speaker 3: It was out on the plains every day.

1424
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: It'd be like you'd be going down these big valleys.

1425
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: You mentioned choke cherries and stuff like you travel in

1426
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: these big valleys and you'd read mountain man accounts they'll

1427
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 1: run into like nine grizzlies in a day out on

1428
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 1: the big valleys out on the plains. People would be like, oh,

1429
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: they got pushed into the mountains. They didn't get pushed

1430
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 1: into the mountains, just the ones that were on the

1431
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: plains are gone, and there's someone they didn't like migrate

1432
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 1: to the mountains. That's like a misconception to be that

1433
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 1: they were there, they remained there. Where they're not is

1434
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,639
Speaker 1: on the plains. But now and then one will strike

1435
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 1: out and he'll head east. And when that happens, oftentimes

1436
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 1: people are like, good, lord's the end of the world.

1437
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 1: But you guys had a grizzly number of years ago

1438
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 1: turn up. But I remember you were like a rare

1439
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 1: voice to be like cool, a grizzly Well, yeah, it

1440
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: amids a lot of like handwringing about what it's like.

1441
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 1: The end of civilization as we know is well.

1442
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, I think other aren't. Some of our neighbors

1443
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 2: were happy to do. But yeah, yeah, and it hasn't

1444
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 2: just been that one. We've We've spotted a number in

1445
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 2: that area for sure now, like even a mom and cubs.

1446
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I know they're coming. They're absolutely coming, and

1447
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 2: they're coming exactly how we thought they would come. And

1448
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 2: that's why, you know, one of the things we didn't

1449
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 2: touch on is the way that American prairie works with

1450
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 2: neighboring landowners. In one of those ways, I talked about

1451
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 2: the twenty five families that run eight to ten thousand

1452
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 2: head of cattle on our properties. But we also work

1453
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 2: with private landowners through a program called wild Sky where

1454
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 2: we make payments basically rent for wildlife through a cameras

1455
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 2: for a conservation program. And so if someone sees a

1456
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 2: mountain lion on a camera trap, they get a check

1457
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 2: for that mountain lion and a camera trap. And what

1458
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,760
Speaker 2: we're recognizing is that this this wildlife is there and

1459
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 2: in the middle of these working lands, and that these

1460
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 2: landowners are providing that habitat and we cost share on

1461
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:19,600
Speaker 2: habitat restoration projects too. Including the reason I brought this

1462
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 2: up is because we have a range riding program that

1463
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 2: is right there in the in the breaks where where

1464
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 2: those grizzly bears were and there haven't been any issues

1465
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 2: with those those grizzly bears in the in the Missouri

1466
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 2: River breaks.

1467
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:33,720
Speaker 3: That was definitely.

1468
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1469
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 2: There, mean, we we where our visitors were seeing, you know,

1470
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 2: we're seeing evidence of grizzly bears and that there have

1471
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 2: been bears in some of the island mountain ranges around

1472
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 2: there too. But but yeah, we it was a day

1473
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 2: we celebrated in terms of advocating for bear proof dumpsters

1474
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 2: and educating our visitors about carrying bear spray and immediately

1475
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 2: putting bear boxes at all of our public facility is

1476
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 2: out there, because you know, we don't we don't want

1477
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 2: that any conflict of course, and and and nor do

1478
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 2: any of our neighbors. So but yeah, they're they're moving east.

1479
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 1: And here's why I didn't ask about you guys are

1480
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 1: like you guys are not in like you don't participate

1481
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 1: in any kind of predator management programs, Like you don't.

1482
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: You don't do any predator management on your lands. You're

1483
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 1: sort of like just not comfortable with it. Like what's

1484
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,000
Speaker 1: the sort of what's the viewpoint on it? You don't

1485
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 1: view you don't, I mean because I guess because you're

1486
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: not you're not in the livestock business necessarily, it's not

1487
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 1: a huge issue for you.

1488
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we and we want to see everything restored

1489
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 2: to the landscape.

1490
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Do you view that that if you look

1491
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: at stuff like uh, like declining mule deer right or

1492
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: like protecting big horn sheet, do you ever do you

1493
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: ever weigh that out to be like what is that

1494
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: if me, fulder, if you're taking steps like you don't

1495
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: want human harvest of mulder, right, so.

1496
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:08,679
Speaker 3: Both those species. Isn't it disease with.

1497
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: Milder, No, it's habitat, predation and habitat. So if you

1498
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: were looking like, let's say you were looking at a

1499
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: species of concern, Okay, it would be mule deer harsh winners.

1500
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 1: That's an issue. Predation is an issue. Habitat loss is

1501
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: an issue. What if you looked at a thing like

1502
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 1: Muldier and you thought, like, as a species of particular concern,

1503
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: we want to like help build and recover milder during

1504
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,559
Speaker 1: low points, you would never make the calculation that even

1505
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: if you knew empirically that predation from coyotes on mule

1506
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: deer fawns was having a population level negative impact, you

1507
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 1: would not participate in predator man. You would not participate

1508
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 1: in coyote management to bring up Muldier numbers.

1509
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 2: Those are just not conversations that we're that we're having. Yeah,

1510
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 2: those are just not Yeah, those are just not the

1511
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:09,680
Speaker 2: reality out there on that.

1512
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: You're not looking at it at that kind of like

1513
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 1: detailed level. Yeah, what else do you want to talk

1514
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 1: about or things that you wish I had asked you about.

1515
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 3: You know, I think we've we've covered a good, good

1516
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 3: range of topics.

1517
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: How best do people go find out more about your organization's.

1518
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:33,559
Speaker 2: Great information on our website and where this year will

1519
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 2: be improving the visit pages so it's clearer. How to

1520
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 2: rent a facility, how to get a hunting reservation, how

1521
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,800
Speaker 2: to go out and experience the landscape.

1522
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 1: One of our colleagues, he's currently feeding on one right now,

1523
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 1: and I've been eating some of it too. Is he

1524
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 1: his wife had a permit to hunt? Yes, the buffalo

1525
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:56,080
Speaker 1: on your guy's place. Another one of my colleagues. Every

1526
01:29:56,160 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 1: year he goes with a veteran. Yep, he partic in

1527
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: a veteran hunt.

1528
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, we didn't.

1529
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:05,799
Speaker 2: I mentioned that three hundred and seventy bison have been harvested,

1530
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I didn't go into the details of

1531
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 2: how popular that program is. And so every year we

1532
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 2: do have, yeah, a public application, twenty to thirty opportunities

1533
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 2: every year, and thousands and thousands of people apply. Those

1534
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 2: opportunities are weighted to Montana's and they're weighted to the

1535
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 2: seven counties that we work in. So harder to get

1536
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:30,000
Speaker 2: one of those if you're your if you're not in

1537
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:32,639
Speaker 2: the state, but those are immensely popular.

1538
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: The other thing we do, but they don't live here

1539
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: in town. But his wife got one.

1540
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she she was really lucky. Then well, Gallatin

1541
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 2: County wouldn't be waited, so she was just one of them.

1542
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: No, no, she just got lucky.

1543
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she just got lucky.

1544
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 2: And then the other thing we do is we we

1545
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 2: donate harvest to other nonprofits to auxure them off. So

1546
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:57,720
Speaker 2: as an example, the Glasgow Reds baseball team up in Glasgow.

1547
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 3: Along with a rifle.

1548
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 2: That was donated by a local rancher, that opportunity to

1549
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 2: harvest a bison America Brad went for over thirty thousand dollars.

1550
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, raising money for that for that organization.

1551
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: Our body that works here and it goes with the

1552
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 1: wounded Veterans. I'm not sure what organization he goes.

1553
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: With Wounded Warriors. I think I believe, but could be. Yeah, yeah,

1554
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 2: so yeah, definitely, definitely.

1555
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 1: It's an annual late winter thing that they go.

1556
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:27,759
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, there are a couple, there are some organizations

1557
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 2: that we've partnered with your year after year like that.

1558
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, if anyone has an organization that

1559
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:34,520
Speaker 2: they want America.

1560
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 3: Bread to support.

1561
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,639
Speaker 2: Give us a give us a call and also put

1562
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 2: in for those put in for that drawing every year.

1563
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 1: And so people should go check out your website.

1564
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, website's the best place. What is your what is

1565
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 2: the website America Prairie dot org.

1566
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: It's easy to find Two Eyes and Prairie. Alison Fox,

1567
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show man.

1568
01:31:57,720 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you having us by.

1569
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you well I should. I don't want to

1570
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 1: say you can come on any time, but you can

1571
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 1: come on almost every time.

1572
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:05,559
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.

1573
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 2: That's very generous of you, especially the new stuff to

1574
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 2: talk about.

1575
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:11,519
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about your bison tattoo though.

1576
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 1: No, it's fading out, my fake one.

1577
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,120
Speaker 3: I really thought that was why that you got that

1578
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:17,719
Speaker 3: in my honor.

1579
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:19,760
Speaker 1: Well, the deal I've talked with this all the time.

1580
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: But the deal is my wife U and I we

1581
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: were going to provide like a service by being the

1582
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 1: last untattooed American couple.

1583
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 3: Oh, my husband and I are part of that part of.

1584
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 1: The Yeah, yeah, the select the select few American couples.

1585
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 2: And then now you're telling me my kids are also

1586
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 2: not going to get tattoos.

1587
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 1: I'll get into that greater detail. Well, but no, I

1588
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: appreciate you being I mean, you know, coming on and

1589
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,639
Speaker 1: being such a good sport about asking a bunch of questions.

1590
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, happy to I appreciate. I appreciate the

1591
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 2: opportunity to tell the story. I guess the other thing

1592
01:32:56,240 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 2: I would say is, you know, we in uh one,

1593
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 2: we opened our Discovery Center in Lewistown and that's really

1594
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:07,080
Speaker 2: the headquarters of the organization. We've got about fifteen staff

1595
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 2: based there. That facility is open for public events. There's

1596
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 2: an exhibit hall, there's a children's area, we have a

1597
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 2: new blackfooted ferret.

1598
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 3: We have a.

1599
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 2: So go in and visit it, go to an event

1600
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 2: there and meet our team and ask any question you

1601
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,640
Speaker 2: have about American Prairie. That is, we are committed to

1602
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 2: being open and transparent and available, and it's been amazing

1603
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,800
Speaker 2: to see that having that physical place where people can go.

1604
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:35,800
Speaker 3: Call it.

1605
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 2: We called it a discovery center because it's not quite

1606
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 2: a visitor center, it's not quite a community center. It's both,

1607
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 2: and that's why we chose the word discovery. But it's

1608
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 2: open and go talk to members.

1609
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 3: Of our team.

1610
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 1: Do you guys have any blackfooted ferrets on the ground.

1611
01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 3: We don't.

1612
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 2: We don't, so we don't have the extent of the

1613
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:58,160
Speaker 2: prairie dog towns are not large enough yet to support

1614
01:33:58,280 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 2: blackfooted ferrets.

1615
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 3: There are blackfoot the ferre it's on Fort bell Nap.

1616
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 3: That's the closest population now and they have been there for.

1617
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 1: I would have thought that I would. I would just

1618
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 1: feel that you have enough prairie dog colonies for blackfoot affairs.

1619
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 1: So they need huge area.

1620
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: They need huge airs, thousands of acres, and we're working

1621
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:17,760
Speaker 2: toward that. We're absolutely working toward that. But but not

1622
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 2: we don't have them any now.

1623
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 1: So some little football field sized town isn't going to

1624
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: do it.

1625
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 3: Nope, Nope.

1626
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 2: You need towns that are big enough so that some

1627
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,720
Speaker 2: plague out they can they can go to other towns

1628
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:32,799
Speaker 2: connected network.

1629
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:35,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. If he's like down in the valley floor hanging

1630
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 1: out and like I said, like maybe something a couple

1631
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 1: of football fields, but then all of a sudden you

1632
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 1: realize there's not one left because they got because they

1633
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 1: all died. Yeah, that guy's screw you.

1634
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 2: Other other populations, but we do. We have an ambassador

1635
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 2: ferret at the Discovery Center.

1636
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: You can point him and be like someday, yeah right, No.

1637
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 2: I mean it's uh the National Blackfoot of the Ferret

1638
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:59,679
Speaker 2: Center and Fort Collins, uh, which has a captive breeding

1639
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 2: progra and some ferrets prove themselves able to survive and

1640
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 2: be reintroduced to some of the reintroduction sites around the

1641
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 2: around the Great Planes, and some do not. And so

1642
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 2: our little guy bandit eats two rats a day instead.

1643
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 1: Is that like, is there a permitting problem? Like, let's

1644
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: say you just wanted to try it out and cut

1645
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 1: one loose cut, not cut one cut, ten them loose? Right?

1646
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:25,759
Speaker 3: Oh, there are endangered species always.

1647
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:26,920
Speaker 1: Saying like if you're like, now we're going to do

1648
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 1: three males, seven females, We're just gonna like is that

1649
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 1: can you not do it? Because it is that a

1650
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:36,959
Speaker 1: huge permitting permission issue? Yeah? Because they're an EESA species.

1651
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and yes, they're any SA species.

1652
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: And of course every America Barry doesn't have the authority

1653
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:45,920
Speaker 2: to reintroduce any animals, right except for by But yes

1654
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 2: you would, yeah, it would be.

1655
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 1: Is it impossible or is it just hard?

1656
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:50,360
Speaker 3: No?

1657
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 2: I don't think it's impossible. There are there are reintroduction sites.

1658
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 2: There are sites in month. There have been sites in Montana,

1659
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,160
Speaker 2: there are sites in South Dakota, and so.

1660
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 1: I guess there wouldn't be a reason why they Yeah, no,

1661
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 1: there are.

1662
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are private land sites there.

1663
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 2: I believe that there are sites that are you know,

1664
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:10,800
Speaker 2: a mix of public and private lands.

1665
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 1: So I would wonder about the unfaire it's if if

1666
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 1: you have if the captive breeding program. This is a

1667
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 1: whole other conversation with the different guests, but this is

1668
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:23,479
Speaker 1: what I would ask them if there was a black

1669
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 1: if you were a blackfooted fair expert, I would say,

1670
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 1: is the captive breeding program so successful that you can

1671
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:34,640
Speaker 1: roll the dice now and then? Or is a blackfooted

1672
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:39,559
Speaker 1: as an individual blackfooted ferret of such rarity and value

1673
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 1: that you can't be risky mm hmmm, do you follow me?

1674
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:45,680
Speaker 3: I do follow you. I do follow you. And I

1675
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 3: don't know.

1676
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:52,840
Speaker 2: It's hundreds of animals in the captive breeding program at

1677
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:59,120
Speaker 2: least and and and so I suspect that they can.

1678
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 1: They can take a chance.

1679
01:37:00,120 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 3: They can take a chance.

1680
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 1: But because you know, you don't take a chance with

1681
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:09,360
Speaker 1: a rhino, you do not take it right. You don't

1682
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:12,479
Speaker 1: go out m lose. See what happens but I wonder

1683
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:14,800
Speaker 1: if you can, like if there's ever enough ferrets where

1684
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:18,360
Speaker 1: you get to start trying some stuff you know well.

1685
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:20,360
Speaker 2: And there there's a concept of kind of like a

1686
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:24,280
Speaker 2: nursery site where they might be smaller, but you're training

1687
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 2: those ferrets to be fair at like in a.

1688
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 3: In a while in a wild landscape. Again, so.

1689
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: We learned. The other day we had a rough grouse

1690
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 1: expert on and rough grouse are not doing well in

1691
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the areas in the southern end of

1692
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 1: their range, and he was pointing out that unlike the

1693
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 1: wild turkey, rough grouse don't do well with with spot reintroductions.

1694
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 1: They have to bleed out.

1695
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, you you.

1696
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 1: Can't jump ahead like they just don't.

1697
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:05,519
Speaker 3: They What kind of distances are we talking, I don't know, but.

1698
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 1: He said that, like they have very poor success rates

1699
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:12,719
Speaker 1: leap frogging like they need to. They need to bleed

1700
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:17,719
Speaker 1: from the habit Yeah, they need to be like stable

1701
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 1: populations and good habitat and they need to spread like that.

1702
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 1: Putting them in a box and moving them forward and

1703
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:28,599
Speaker 1: dropping them doesn't work for them. I don't know if

1704
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: it's just that they can't learn the area quickly enough

1705
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,680
Speaker 1: they make too many mistakes, they're not familiar. They got

1706
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:36,880
Speaker 1: to ease into it, they're too vulnerable or whatever. But

1707
01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't work like that.

1708
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 2: So the conservation efforts are focused on expanding habitat off core, as.

1709
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 1: You're saying, it has to be off core habitat and

1710
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:48,679
Speaker 1: move it that way, like it doesn't work to jump

1711
01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:51,680
Speaker 1: to leap frog them. Yeah, but if that was the

1712
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:54,200
Speaker 1: plan on blackfooted ferrets, it's gonna be a long road

1713
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:57,960
Speaker 1: to recovery. Yeah, if you weren't able to establish.

1714
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:01,200
Speaker 3: Because there aren't any there's no place.

1715
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:02,719
Speaker 1: Very few places to start from.

1716
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:04,879
Speaker 3: Right right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1717
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:08,400
Speaker 1: Well call me when you get a black foot ferret

1718
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:09,800
Speaker 1: on the ground. I'll be curious about that.

1719
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:13,320
Speaker 3: I'm rooting for the fierce little animals.

1720
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 1: They're cool, yeah, cool.

1721
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,000
Speaker 2: I mean obviously I did get it the opportunity once

1722
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 2: to spotlight when there was a there was a sight

1723
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 2: in the Turley Russell and I got to drive around

1724
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 2: all night and it.

1725
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 1: Was I've seen about I'd like to see like one

1726
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 1: doing his deal, you know.

1727
01:39:28,120 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know the green eye shine in the

1728
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 2: middle of the night, how they shine. And then you

1729
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 2: there's a reader that you put over the hole and

1730
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:36,799
Speaker 2: you stuff some hay down in there.

1731
01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 3: And so you can tell when it's come out.

1732
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 2: And then you get the reader and they know they're

1733
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: all chips, so they know. Oh yeah, they're doing basically

1734
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:45,719
Speaker 2: a fare. They were doing like a ferret census every

1735
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 2: fall to see and then capturing the new kits and

1736
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 2: and tagging them.

1737
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: So their eyes show green.

1738
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, So you're driving on out of the

1739
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 2: spotlight on the top of the car and looking for

1740
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 2: them on the prairie dog town all night long.

1741
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 3: Are they very cool experience?

1742
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: No?

1743
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:06,760
Speaker 2: I mean they're they're chill, they're yeah, no there, yeah,

1744
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 2: they're and and they're small, right, they're a couple, they're

1745
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:12,760
Speaker 2: a couple of pounds, and there their prize a couple

1746
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:13,280
Speaker 2: of pounds.

1747
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:15,480
Speaker 1: So that's cool, amazing.

1748
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:15,759
Speaker 3: To think about.

1749
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:18,600
Speaker 2: They eat a prairie the prairie dog going least a

1750
01:40:18,640 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 2: couple of days. They eat one every three days.

1751
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:23,120
Speaker 1: No, it seems like there's plenty of them out there.

1752
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,960
Speaker 1: But I see what you're saying about eating those huge towns.

1753
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll let alone all the other species that the

1754
01:40:29,479 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 2: rattlesnakes and the badgers and the burrowing owls and all

1755
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 2: the other species that depend on on those prairie dog towns,

1756
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:38,519
Speaker 2: and all the on gillids that are eating that fresh growth,

1757
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:41,719
Speaker 2: and you know they're important part of the ecosystem, even

1758
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:42,800
Speaker 2: though not everyone loves them.

1759
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right man, thanks again, Yeah, thank you. I

1760
01:40:47,080 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on absolutely thanks for having us