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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about travel and uh, safety

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Speaker 1: precautions and sort of your own personal insurance policy. I

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Speaker 1: went to Costa Rica recently with my daughter for the

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Speaker 1: most amazing bonding, sort of self healing, spiritually connected trips,

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Speaker 1: and it was just so great. And your kids really

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Speaker 1: do feel that you feed into them. They feel when

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Speaker 1: you're really giving them personal attention and where you're really

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Speaker 1: with them, and it was incredible. Um And what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is that people that I know and then i'm friends

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Speaker 1: with our shocked that we had such a good trip

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Speaker 1: because we had a really scary number of experiences. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I sort of want to get into this

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Speaker 1: as a discussion about safety precautions when traveling. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I was surprised at Costa Rica is

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Speaker 1: the safest COVID place I've seen. Everywhere required masks. They

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Speaker 1: wanted us to wear masks outside in the restaurants. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess their tourism is their entire lifeblood and so

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Speaker 1: they can't take any chances. But I thought it was

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Speaker 1: really it was almost over the top. But I appreciate

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Speaker 1: it because they have to protect their you know, investment

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Speaker 1: and people and safety and you're relying on them for that.

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Speaker 1: But even in the airport, you couldn't walk into the

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Speaker 1: airport without them seeing you put hand sanitizer on without

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Speaker 1: a mask. I thought it was really remarkable, and the

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Speaker 1: hotels are very safe. So we went to coast through

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Speaker 1: and I was you never know what country is safe

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Speaker 1: and what's not safe. It's has been reported that it's

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Speaker 1: not safe in Mexico right now and a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff has been going on there,

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Speaker 1: um and so you know, my people around you were

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Speaker 1: sort of like, is it safe there? Uh? And it

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Speaker 1: did feel very safe. There's are there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of Americans there. Uh. But the first day we went

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Speaker 1: on a boat trip, and I guess they don't get

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Speaker 1: the winds they're getting right now. It's very incredible right now.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of winds and there are crazy

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Speaker 1: brush fires that are just massive and scary and near

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Speaker 1: animal was and all this stuff. So I guess that

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Speaker 1: maybe every day it's like being in l A seventy Sonny.

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Speaker 1: You're not checking the water report. And we went on

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Speaker 1: a boat and without getting too deep into detail, and

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Speaker 1: I don't have good luck with boats. This boat we

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Speaker 1: went on to go surfing. The one beach was really common,

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Speaker 1: had no waves, and the driver and the sort of

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Speaker 1: surf guy on the boat said, let's go to this

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Speaker 1: other beach. And as we started going to the other beach,

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Speaker 1: which took about forty five minutes to get to or

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Speaker 1: thirty a long time, it was really really bumpy, like

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Speaker 1: really bumpy, and my daughter was a little scared, and

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Speaker 1: she was like, Mama, I don't like it. Let's go back.

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Speaker 1: And they said, well, the worst is over, we might

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Speaker 1: as well just keep going. And either way on the

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Speaker 1: way back you're gonna hit that those currents. And so

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Speaker 1: I said, well, there's a hotel right there, there's a

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Speaker 1: four seasons right there in a beach club. Should we

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Speaker 1: not have you drop us off and we could take

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Speaker 1: a taxi back And they said, no, you know, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: it won't take that long. So we went and she

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Speaker 1: surved and it was great. And then we were on

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Speaker 1: the way back and the ship hit the fan. It

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Speaker 1: was insane what the boat was taking on water, literally

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Speaker 1: waves crashing onto the boat. I bruises on my arms.

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Speaker 1: She was crying. We were like banging around, we were

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Speaker 1: bracing ourselves, deciding whether it'll like go with the motion

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Speaker 1: of it, meaning if you're too tight, you're gonna then

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Speaker 1: fall down instead of crash versus going with the motion

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Speaker 1: of it like a race car or something, or should

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Speaker 1: we like brace ourselves and hold it was. It was terrifying, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I was freaking out, and I and the captain

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Speaker 1: of the boat realized like they knew it, like obviously

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Speaker 1: they knew it. They were soaked too. It was crazy.

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Speaker 1: This is supposed to be just like a little cruising

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Speaker 1: boat that comes from a hotel that we had I

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Speaker 1: found out later booked through the hotel, which is something

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about. And we get off and

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Speaker 1: like literally the first day there, we thought we were

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Speaker 1: just gonna have a nice little ride, and it was traumatic.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to get into the past experiences I've

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Speaker 1: had on boats. I was was in a I was

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Speaker 1: lost at sea for about twenty something hours. People thought

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Speaker 1: I was lying in the media, and um, even the

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Speaker 1: boat people and the entire crew confirm and Bravo confirmed

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Speaker 1: that this did happen. Um, I just have had not

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Speaker 1: great luck with boats in a couple of different scenarios.

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Speaker 1: On the Housewives, we were in Columbia and there was

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Speaker 1: a horrendous experience that happened on a boat. Um. This

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Speaker 1: was scary so and it was traumatic for Britain. And

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Speaker 1: I just felt like I wasn't I didn't keep her safe.

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Speaker 1: They didn't even have her in a life vest like

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Speaker 1: it just it was all moving so fast and I

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Speaker 1: was really really really nervous. Um. And we got off

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Speaker 1: and I looked at them. I said, this is because

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Speaker 1: we couldn't even talk while being on the boat. There

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Speaker 1: was no disgusting this it was. It was literally treacherous

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Speaker 1: waters and we could have taken a taxi, as I suggested.

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Speaker 1: It was weird. It was almost like they didn't look

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Speaker 1: at the weather. They didn't realize because it's never this windy. Um.

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Speaker 1: Later on, the hotel manager told me he's never seen

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Speaker 1: the conditions that windy. You could see the white caps

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Speaker 1: from the hotel on the water, if that makes any sense,

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Speaker 1: if you know the currents. So we get back. I

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Speaker 1: get I'm getting off the boat. I look at the captains.

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Speaker 1: I said, this is wildly unacceptable that you know. That

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Speaker 1: wasn't okay, that was unsafe. I have an eleven year

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Speaker 1: old I mean, I was freaking out, so I literally

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Speaker 1: have drying out thinking about it. So we get back

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Speaker 1: and I talked to somebody who's sort of the pool manager,

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Speaker 1: and I said, no, I need a real hotel manager.

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Speaker 1: I need somebody who's actually in charge. And this really

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Speaker 1: nice guy, Sergio, came over to the pool and we

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Speaker 1: discussed it, and he said, I have to tell you

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Speaker 1: I've spoken to the captain. I've never seen water like this.

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Speaker 1: It was unacceptable. We're so sorry you went through this.

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Speaker 1: And he was really really nice and just was connecting

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Speaker 1: with me and a you okay, And he said he

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Speaker 1: was going to take over our activities for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the trip and make sure that they were safe

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Speaker 1: and and he and he did, and it was great.

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Speaker 1: But it really made me realize a lot of times

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Speaker 1: people want sort of a more authentic experience. They don't

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Speaker 1: want to go through the hotel because maybe the hotel

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Speaker 1: is either on the take with a company or only

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Speaker 1: suggesting a certain company that's their friends or whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. You have to book activities through the hotel.

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Speaker 1: And it also made me realize you really have to

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Speaker 1: be staying at a hotel that's part of a greater group.

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Speaker 1: This was the Odds, which is part of the Hyatt

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Speaker 1: Hotel group. And that made me feel safer because it

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Speaker 1: made me feel that somebody in a big corporation is

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Speaker 1: going to be accountable. It goes from high It, which

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Speaker 1: is a big company, to on Us, which is a company,

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Speaker 1: to then the local on Dawes in Costa Rica, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of a miniature company, so you at least

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Speaker 1: have someone to like Instagram and talk to, and there's

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Speaker 1: some sort of there's corporate So while I love a

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Speaker 1: cute little boutique hotel and that experience, I don't think

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Speaker 1: I like that in a foreign country. I want there

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Speaker 1: to be some chain of command and somebody who's going

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Speaker 1: to be compatible. So when you're going away and your

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Speaker 1: booking activities, they need to be done through a real

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Speaker 1: company that you understand has insurance, liability, insurance will take accountability.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I felt like, for a minute, I was

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Speaker 1: in that movie like fifty meters or whatever it's called,

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Speaker 1: like something meters down where it's like I think it's

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Speaker 1: like Mandy Moore, Jessica Alba, somebody in like a shark movie,

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Speaker 1: and and the the cage detaches. I felt freaked out.

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Speaker 1: I felt irresponsible I didn't feel good and thank god

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Speaker 1: it was booked through the hotel, which my assistance confirmed,

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Speaker 1: but that freaked me out. It was booked through a

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Speaker 1: credit card, which maybe gives you further liability coverage. You know,

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Speaker 1: we just have to be more careful. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is renowned journalist Katie Kurk. She's reported for most major

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Speaker 1: broadcasting networks, including ABC, CBS, and NBC. She's one of

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Speaker 1: the best to ever do it. Katie is well known

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Speaker 1: for her role as host of NBC's Today show, Incredible

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Speaker 1: pinnacle in her career, beyond her on screen persona, Katie

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Speaker 1: has created her own media company titled Katie Kurrik Media,

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Speaker 1: and is an active participant in philanthropic efforts, including funding

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Speaker 1: cancer research and creative outlets for youth. As a member

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Speaker 1: of the Television Hall of Fame, Katie is an icon

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Speaker 1: in the journalism space. Her journey as a businesswoman and

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Speaker 1: television journalist is fascinating and I can't wait to share

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Speaker 1: it with you guys. Her book Going There is amazing.

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Speaker 1: She's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Here we are talking

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Speaker 1: about you, and you know, it just it just hit me,

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Speaker 1: because you know how life moved so quickly and we're

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Speaker 1: all so busy, and I just said to myself, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to Katie Kurrik like we're friends and I know you,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it wasn't so long ago that I

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Speaker 1: was really broken, hustling, and like, Katie Kurrik so major

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Speaker 1: and such a household name and visits us every day

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Speaker 1: on television, and I can't believe I know you And

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Speaker 1: just to text you and say would you give me

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Speaker 1: a blurb for my book, and you're just like sure,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, I'm friends with Katie Kirk. I just realized

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Speaker 1: that right now. So I'm proud. Um, you know that

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Speaker 1: I've met really interesting, smart, strong women in my life,

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Speaker 1: in particular this month thinking about that, so welcome. Well, thanks,

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Speaker 1: And I feel the same way about you, Bethany. It's

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Speaker 1: been really fun getting to know you. And um, I

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Speaker 1: so admire your moxie, which is a word I use

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Speaker 1: in my book because that's sort of spirited determination and

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Speaker 1: not saying taking no for an answer. And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's so many great women doing incredible things

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Speaker 1: out there. It's really exciting, especially as you say, this

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Speaker 1: month for International Women's Month, so it is exciting and

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Speaker 1: being fearless, because I don't think that your persona would

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Speaker 1: initially be that she's fearless, because you have that sort

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Speaker 1: of sweet vibe to you. But when your book came

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Speaker 1: out and there was a lot of pressed about it,

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Speaker 1: I texted Katie I was thinking about how which was

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Speaker 1: so great. By the way. I was so appreciative of

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Speaker 1: that call because it was such bullshit and you you,

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Speaker 1: you knew it right away. And I love you for

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Speaker 1: actually just picking up the phone and calling me because

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Speaker 1: I was sort of being besieged by you know, just

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Speaker 1: gross tabloid stuff for thirsty people out of thirsty people

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Speaker 1: trying to get attention, you know, and and it was

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Speaker 1: really it was really actually pretty demoralizing. And you called,

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Speaker 1: And what did you say to me, Betha. I said,

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Speaker 1: they're not paying your rent, So so that's what I said.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, I said, don't keep going. You're the greatest.

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Speaker 1: But I knew that for a moment. When you have

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Speaker 1: those moments, you're like, oh god, did I go too far?

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Speaker 1: It feels very you know, you feel like you have

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Speaker 1: like raw skin and you've just put to Basco sauce

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Speaker 1: on it. You're like, oh no, I'm exposed, I'm vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: How far did I go? I wrote it? It It sounded

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Speaker 1: like a good idea, you know, and with your book

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Speaker 1: it's been very successful, but you needed that minute to

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Speaker 1: bridge that gap, and like, well, I think you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it says a lot about modern media and

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Speaker 1: how it operates. Honestly, and you know this better than anyone,

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Speaker 1: is that you know it's it's engagement through enragement. They're

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Speaker 1: looking for clickbait, They're looking for controversy there they create

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Speaker 1: it when there isn't any, or they exaggerate it when

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Speaker 1: and and take it out of context. And they meaning

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Speaker 1: sort of the media universe writ large because I used

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Speaker 1: to think it was just like the trashy tabloid press

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Speaker 1: that I don't really pay attention to. But people do

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Speaker 1: read so um, But then what we need them think

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Speaker 1: about it. Your book is successful partially because mostly because

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Speaker 1: it's excellent, but partially because of them and all this

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Speaker 1: money raised for all this relief work. Is the media.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't do this myself with that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I am, I'm a member of them, But I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying the way that it operates. Now with trying

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Speaker 1: to get clicks and trying to get engaged. You know. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just the same way news. You know,

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Speaker 1: it sells newspapers, right, it gets clicks. So so I

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Speaker 1: just think some some outlets are just really irresponsible about

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Speaker 1: the way the links they go to to get clicks.

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Speaker 1: And I think I saw that firsthand. And I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you calling because once people read the book, and

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Speaker 1: once people understood the tone of the book, and yes,

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Speaker 1: I am funny that they you know, once people saw

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Speaker 1: how supportive of many many people I was in the book,

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Speaker 1: they're like, this book isn't at all like it was described. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe it's sold copies out of curiosity, but

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to be so um you know, misconstrued and

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Speaker 1: and incorrectly represented. Misrepresented really you know, yeah, that's exact

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Speaker 1: the word I was searching for. Bethany. That's a name

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Speaker 1: for another good book. Um. Okay, so, Katie, So I

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Speaker 1: read the book, but I want to just talk about you.

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Speaker 1: You can sit back, I'm gonna drive, which is rare

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Speaker 1: for you. So this is different because, um but Kelly

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Speaker 1: Rippa came on and she said, oh my god, she

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Speaker 1: said it was the best interview because she said, um,

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Speaker 1: it felt like therapy, meaning we just were talking. I

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Speaker 1: know you, but I don't really know you, and even

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Speaker 1: in reading the book, I don't texturally know you. So

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Speaker 1: I want to get into you. Um. Growing up and

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Speaker 1: how would you describe your means? Middle class? Middle class? Um?

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Speaker 1: Middle class, I mean very educated, Like my parents were

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Speaker 1: super smart. They inspired us to be aspirational, you know,

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Speaker 1: to go to good colleges to improve our lot. I

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Speaker 1: think my mom grew up in it in a probably

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Speaker 1: upper middle class household in Omaha, Nebraska. Her dad was

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Speaker 1: a developer and architect. And UM, my dad, while he

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Speaker 1: was enormously intelligent, I don't think he ever reached the

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Speaker 1: level of success financially he or my mom you know,

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Speaker 1: hoped for and uh and so I think I had

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Speaker 1: such a wonderful family. My parents loved me unconditionally, but

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Speaker 1: they also gave me enough rope to make mistakes. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm the youngest of for my siblings are all impressive

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Speaker 1: and high achieving, and UM, I feel really really lucky

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Speaker 1: because the the older I get, the more I realized, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: that not everyone has that kind of upbringing. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we're all like a little piece of Plato when we

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Speaker 1: come out and our family, the the way you can

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Speaker 1: shape a person through their family relationships and your parenting

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Speaker 1: style and um, you know, whether you're uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: a giving person, whether you're emotionally available, and all the

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Speaker 1: ways that you were raised then translate off into your

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Speaker 1: kids or you go the totally opposite way. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have such an interesting childhood too, I know, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know didn't enjoy kind of that unconditional love that

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Speaker 1: I had, I mean, and and so I feel just

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Speaker 1: super fortunate that that I grew up where I did

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Speaker 1: with the parents I had. It gives you a foundation,

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Speaker 1: a different sort of security to walk into the world

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Speaker 1: that you have sort of a a team that's rooting for you,

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Speaker 1: that's there for you. It's different. And yeah, the mocks

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Speaker 1: that you describe about me, or what I commented when

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Speaker 1: people were bothering you, that's also a part of what

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Speaker 1: that I grew up the opposite way and had to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to break the chain with my daughter.

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Speaker 1: But you and I are strong personalities, both successful. So

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Speaker 1: while you grew up with that earnest background, now combine

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Speaker 1: that with being a woman who has to fight in

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Speaker 1: a man's world to you know, to be who you are. Um,

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Speaker 1: I presume there were many times that it was all

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Speaker 1: about you and you're trying to raise young daughters and

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Speaker 1: you know they may not even like attention, they may

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Speaker 1: have different feelings about it. So how does that whole

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Speaker 1: mixed bag, you know, how does that whole how does

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Speaker 1: that flush out with your parenting style and mistakes that

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Speaker 1: you've made or things that you've really done well combining

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Speaker 1: that whole recipe. Well, you know, it's hard. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because my daughters were raised in a very different environment.

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Speaker 1: I mean we had a I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: house on Fort Street that was you know, quite modest

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Speaker 1: and you know, sort of almost to leave it to

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Speaker 1: beaver upbringing. We'd play baseball in the street with the

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Speaker 1: tennis ball. We'd ride our bikes. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you ever saw that movie now and then,

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Speaker 1: but it's a fun one to to watch with your daughter.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was pretty much my child to it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had a banana seat bike. We'd go,

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Speaker 1: you know, say by mom and dad, we'll be back,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Mr McMullen would whistle when Janey needed

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Speaker 1: to come in for dinner, and my dad would yell Katie,

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Speaker 1: you know on the front steps. And it was really

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Speaker 1: really idyllic in a way. And you know, and we

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Speaker 1: never took vacations, you know them along to a country club.

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Speaker 1: I think we went on, you know, a couple of vacations,

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Speaker 1: uh that I can remember growing up. Um, But I

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Speaker 1: never wanted for anything, you know, I I you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I was like, oh, I want to go to

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Speaker 1: the country club, you know, Washington Golf and Country Club

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Speaker 1: where the quote unquote rich kids went. But I'd go

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Speaker 1: as a guest sometimes. And but my daughters had, you know,

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Speaker 1: grew up with such privilege. You know, they came into

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Speaker 1: the world and were brought home to an apartment on

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Speaker 1: Park Avenue there. You know, parents were affluent. Jay was

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Speaker 1: this successful attorney. I was just you know, starting on

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Speaker 1: the Today Show, making more money than I ever believed

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Speaker 1: was humanly possible. My parents and I used to laugh

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Speaker 1: about it, like what you know, it's still to this day,

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Speaker 1: Bethany feels like monopoly money to me. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I can't even conceive it. All I know is that

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Speaker 1: having money gives you one less thing to worry about,

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Speaker 1: and I feel so grateful for that in this crazy

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Speaker 1: world we live in. But my daughters, you know, I

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Speaker 1: tried to to keep them grounded and you know, love them,

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Speaker 1: and and and then of course when Jay died, I

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Speaker 1: became a single mom when they were six and two.

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Speaker 1: So it was just I mean, you could not have

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Speaker 1: found a more diametrically opposed upbringing for my kids than

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Speaker 1: I had growing up in Arlington, Virginia. Right. And I

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Speaker 1: talked to Mark Cuban about this. He's not going to

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Speaker 1: tell them to take the train. Well, he's getting on

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Speaker 1: a you know, a G six fifty private plane. And

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Speaker 1: I assume if you're going to ask in Colorado, you're

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Speaker 1: not telling your kids to sit and coach. So and

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Speaker 1: it happens to me. I was taking my daughter today,

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Speaker 1: uh to buy to buy something for school, and I

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Speaker 1: bought like a couple of sun dresses. And I always

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Speaker 1: sometimes I'm with Brin and I feel guilty because I'll

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Speaker 1: buy her something. But I don't want to be buying

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Speaker 1: her everything, you know, because I've worked for all these

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Speaker 1: years and if I need to get something, I want

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Speaker 1: to get it. But that doesn't mean that every single

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Speaker 1: thing that she says she wants, so, you know, and

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Speaker 1: she never I have a child who never asks for anything.

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Speaker 1: So for example, we were today and there was this

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Speaker 1: pair of pajamas and I don't even think she looked

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Speaker 1: at the price, and they were, you know, pricy, especially

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Speaker 1: for a kid, pajamas. They were so soft, and she

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Speaker 1: liked them, and I bought a couple of things. So

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Speaker 1: I bought her one pair of pajamas. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like just because I was getting all these different things

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Speaker 1: that she was UM. And that's challenging, meaning you want

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Speaker 1: to just give them everything because you have a beautiful,

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Speaker 1: sweet daughter. But I also am aware that she hasn't

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Speaker 1: come with me yet to Puerto Rico to see people

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Speaker 1: up to their ankles in sewage or to pull and

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Speaker 1: to go see these refugees. So it's a struggle because

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Speaker 1: you're making a recipe and once you put it in

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Speaker 1: the oven and it comes out, it's done for the

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Speaker 1: most part. So you're trying to, you know, mold them,

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Speaker 1: like said, like putty. But it's different than your your upbringing,

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Speaker 1: which was idyllic. You said, But I think I always

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Speaker 1: tried to hand down the same values that my parents

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Speaker 1: handed down to me. Um, you know, I remember when

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Speaker 1: I write about this, when Ellie wanted a baby gee watch,

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Speaker 1: you know, and she was like in second or third grade.

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Speaker 1: These are way before Brent's time, but they became very,

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Speaker 1: very very hot, and they were like a hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: and I was like, there's no way I'm buying you

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Speaker 1: a baby gee watch, Ellie, that's gross. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: a kid. Or when Carrie once called me and she

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Speaker 1: was with a friend's mom and she said him, I'm

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Speaker 1: at the I'm at Laperla and um, you know, so

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Speaker 1: and so is buying a like a bra. She was

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Speaker 1: probably in seventh grade. Can I can I get one? Too? She?

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Speaker 1: You know, cala. Her mom said she was going to

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Speaker 1: buy I said, apps a fucking lutely no, I didn't say,

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Speaker 1: but I said, absolutely, no, no, no, Carrie, I don't

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Speaker 1: even buy my underwear Laperla. Absolutely not. You're insane. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, there were times and I, you know, and

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Speaker 1: we we uh volunteered at the Harlem Village Academies and

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Speaker 1: mentored kids and we went to the Bowery Mission and

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Speaker 1: I tried to make sure my kids were exposed to

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Speaker 1: all kinds of people because we were so so fortunate.

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Speaker 1: I was very conscious of the fact that they had

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Speaker 1: this life of privilege, and I made a very concerted

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Speaker 1: effort to emphasize service how lucky they are, and and

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Speaker 1: also for them to value things. You know, money is

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Speaker 1: such an interesting thing, and we all have such a

401
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Speaker 1: weird psychological relationship with money. But I do think my

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00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 1: daughters understand and appreciate the value of things and are

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Speaker 1: keenly aware they are very privileged. You know, two girls

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Speaker 1: and you know, got to go to college, and I

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Speaker 1: was able to pay for their college, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and and and they're grateful, they get it, even they

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Speaker 1: they're very grateful. I have to say my kids are

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Speaker 1: very grounded. Um. I was super careful about making sure

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Speaker 1: that we had, you know, our family and our home

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Speaker 1: was what it was. And you know, it's I My

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Speaker 1: friends didn't change because I suddenly became a public figure.

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Speaker 1: You know. I have friends that I've had since um,

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Speaker 1: you know, high school and college. And of course I've

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Speaker 1: made new, great friends, and I'm grateful for that. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I've always I'm pretty grounded myself, and

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Speaker 1: so I think you know, kids, kids, people say, well,

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Speaker 1: how do you how are you a good parent because

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Speaker 1: my parents raised four I think pretty pretty, you know,

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Speaker 1: nice human beings. And I say, you'd be a good

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Speaker 1: parent by being a good person. You know, they watch you.

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Speaker 1: They watch everything you do. They watch how you interact

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Speaker 1: with people, They watch how you treat others, They watch

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Speaker 1: how you spend your time, what you care about, if

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Speaker 1: you're committed to certain issues. I remember when Ellie said

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Speaker 1: to me in the kitchen and I this is in

426
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: my book too, so sorry I keep referring to it,

427
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: but it's also fresh. She's nine years old and she said, Mom,

428
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of the work you're doing with colon cancer.

429
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 1: You know, kids, it registers and and I think, I

430
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: think that's the best secret of parenting. You'd be if

431
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: you want to be a good parent, be a good person.

432
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: What about being competitive like in work? I mean, how

433
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: hardcore your business? Now you're doing it your way, the

434
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: way you want to do it. It It feels like you've

435
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: totally crafted and curated the way you want to do it,

436
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 1: which I do want to get into that you still

437
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: care so much and it's important to you when you

438
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 1: really are still very driven. Um and I often want

439
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 1: to get off the ride and I don't feel like

440
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: you've seemed like you've ever wanted to get off the ride.

441
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: But to get to where you got to, how much

442
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: did you have to psy sacrifice? How insanely competitive was it?

443
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: Or did you get on the road and you just

444
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: kept sort of one foot in front of the other

445
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: and you just landed in the right place and you

446
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: just gave it your all? Like how crazy was it?

447
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: I think probably probably the ladder is the more descriptive

448
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: of sort of my my rise. I I was lucky.

449
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's not supposed to be appropriate for women

450
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: to talk about being lucky, but luck plays in a role,

451
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: plays a huge role in anyone's success, timing luck, and

452
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: it has to be backed up by intelligence, you know,

453
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: a really strong work ethic, um a certain skill set

454
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: that will make you do well in the profession of

455
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: your choice. But you know, I really loved what I did,

456
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: and every job I had I really enjoy. I worked,

457
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, at CNN before it even went on the air.

458
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: I worked at ABC before that as a grunt making

459
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: coffee and delivering newspapers. Now I didn't love that because

460
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: I thought, oh shoot, shoot, I went to college and

461
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm making coffee and answering phones and you know, all

462
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: why am I doing this? But other than that, you know,

463
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: working at CNN, working in local news in Miami, and

464
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: um and and moving to Atlanta and moving back to

465
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: d C. And every job, I just loved it. I

466
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: loved I love the adrenaline rush of news. I love

467
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: like heading out in a live truck and you know,

468
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: surveying the scene and finding people to talk to, and

469
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: you know that that pressure and stress of working under

470
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: a deadline, and um, you know, how do I make

471
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: it really good? I love to write, you know, I

472
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: love to talk to people. I picked a profession that

473
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: was so well suited to who I am and my personality.

474
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, I always I'm you know this,

475
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: you know I'm much rather be asking you questions, even

476
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: though this is really fun for me. But I I

477
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, I automatically want to say, Bethany, your skin

478
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: looks so pretty? What are you using? But a lot

479
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: of kinds of other things, or talk to you about

480
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: be strong and what you're doing in Ukraine. And you know, um,

481
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: I just so. I just worked very very hard and

482
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: I and I loved what I was doing and I

483
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: had a lot of you know jerks along the way

484
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: who tried to throw up barricades. You know, like jerky

485
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: guys on the desk in Miami who just kind of

486
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: like to to screw with me and try to not

487
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: give me good assignments or for whatever weird power trip reasons,

488
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: or you know, the vice president of CNN saying in

489
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: front of a bunch of executives, I was successful because

490
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: of my breast size, or you know, just people who

491
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: if they didn't slam the door, they didn't open it.

492
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: You know, they never really said, oh, I see something

493
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: in her, I'm going to help her, I'm gonna nurture her.

494
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Although I did have these mentors at CNN in Atlanta

495
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: who just gave me a shot, who gave me an

496
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: opportunity and worked with me and gave me feedback. And

497
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: that's all you really need. You need like one person

498
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: who says, hey, I'm going to give you a shot.

499
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: And so I had that way, But many things you

500
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: said just meant that like many other people with those

501
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: comments might have walked away. Sounds like you're a silent assassin.

502
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: You were still you were you know, you were putting

503
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: one ft in front of the other. But you were

504
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: working your ass off, and it doesn't seem like it

505
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: was for the end game. In the moment, you just

506
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: like what you did. If it's were if you were

507
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: doing it, you were fully doing it. You didn't care

508
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: about lunch break or hours. You were just fully invested,

509
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: fully committed. Took a lot of personal pride in my work,

510
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, and it was I I enjoyed it. I

511
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: wanted to do it well. I was very competitive with myself. Yes,

512
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: if there were other reporters on the scene, I wanted

513
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: to make sure I got the big interview or the

514
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: big or the sound bite that was going to set

515
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: my piece apart. Um. You know, I've always been extremely

516
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: competitive ever since I was a little kid. You know,

517
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: I would do the President's Counsel and physical fitness and

518
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: I would like put Ben Gay on my legs and

519
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: cut my hair so I would be the fastest runner

520
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: in fourth grade. Like I was really fast runner until

521
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: I got thieves and um, and then everything sadly slowed down.

522
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I just not According to the

523
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: guy from Cianna, oh yeah, well that was a different

524
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: kind of race. But you know, I think I just, um,

525
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, was able to be persistent, and I had

526
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: enough self confidence, which I think came from loving parents

527
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: that helped me have a sense of myself to you know,

528
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: run for president of my elementary school, you know, and

529
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: things like that, where my dad would help me with

530
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: my speech and my mom would help with our campaign posters,

531
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: like we all ran for office when we were in

532
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: elementary school, which is so funny, but that taught me

533
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: how to be a good public speaker, how to have

534
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: poise and kind of you know, So all those things

535
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: I think contributed to it. So when when the opportunity

536
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: and and I just happened to be at the right

537
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: place at the right time when it came to big

538
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: success when it came to the Today Show, um, you know,

539
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: through no fault of her own. Deborah Norville, who you know,

540
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: the tabloid said I trashed in the book, which I did.

541
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: Who I didn't at all. I said she was almost

542
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: too perfect for the morning show audience that was kind

543
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: of getting out of bed with BedHead and putting their

544
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: pantyhose on, remember panty hos and and uh. But but

545
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: because she was sort of rejected, largely because of the

546
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: way she replaced Jane Pauli. People felt very loyal to Jane.

547
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: Um I just happened to be kind of like, oh, well,

548
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: how about this one. Right, she's covering the Pentagon, she's

549
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: got credibility, she's got some news chops. Let's let's let's

550
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: try her. And I think for whatever reason, the audience

551
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: responded and then I was on my way. So it

552
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: was a whole confluence of things, right, right, But how

553
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: were you married already when you got that gig? I

554
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: was just married and pregnant, and I remember I said

555
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: to Michael Gartner, I'm pregnant and he said, well, you

556
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: have lousy timing. It turned out the timing couldn't have

557
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: been better, because I think nothing morning show audience likes

558
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: more than to feel like they're the godmother of, you know,

559
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: the baby that's going to be birthed uh uh, you

560
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: know by the anchor of that show, or by anyone

561
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: on that show. So it automatically, UM, I think endeared

562
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: me more to the audience in a funny way. And

563
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: I was so worried. I said to Jay, I can't

564
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: believe it. I'm fucking pregnant and he was like, I

565
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: guess that means you're not going to be knitting knitting

566
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: baby booty booties anytime soon or something he was styled

567
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: and ultimately, oh my god, I can't imagine. I you know,

568
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: Ellie and Carry are like my best friends in the world,

569
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: and you know, I think Bethany, I probably would have

570
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: put it off and you know, so long having a

571
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: kid because I my career was taking off. So the

572
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: idea that I got pregnant, you know, surprise pregnancy, not

573
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: once but twice, is such a gift. And you know,

574
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: that's when I think God works in mysterious ways, because

575
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, Carrie was just one when Jay was diagnosed

576
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: with stage four colon cancer, and Ellie was five when

577
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I just I feel so grateful, and you know, I

578
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: probably I wish I had had even more children. I

579
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: wish I had had probably a child between Ellie and Carry,

580
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: but you know, I was so busy professionally I didn't

581
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: But I feel grateful, grateful every day that that I

582
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: had them and I got I got knocked up. That's amazing.

583
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: It sounds a little different than when I was launching

584
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: a liquor brand and got pregnant and had to go

585
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: to liquor signings and be in liquor stores seven months

586
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: pregnant signing bottles. That feels a little, as they say,

587
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: not a good look. Yeah, isn't the best look, but

588
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: here we go. I'm launching liquor while pregnant. Not the

589
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: best combination. Well, um, but what about your husband while

590
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: you launch into stratospheric success that had to put pressure.

591
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: You are now America's darling. You are a powerhouse success story,

592
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: and that is not easy for men. I think that

593
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: about I wonder about that your relationship. I wonder about

594
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: that in your relationship now too. But I just want

595
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: to talk to you about your your feelings about that dynamic?

596
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Is their overcompensation making the other person feel really valued

597
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: because it is a lot, it's a lot of you,

598
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: which I get. Yes, Well, you know, I think it's

599
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: really interesting because back in um it was. It put

600
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on our marriage because think about it,

601
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: it was really an anomaly for a woman to be

602
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: the breadwinner. Back in the whole dynamic of of women

603
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: in the workforce was really almost in its nace at stage.

604
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: There were and and and we were we weren't seeing

605
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: that that often right, that the husband was usually the

606
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: primary breadwinner and suddenly, you know, Jay and I met.

607
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: He was an associated at a really high powered law

608
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: firm in Washington, d C. I was a local news reporter.

609
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: You know, it was a great thing. And then suddenly

610
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm like making money that we never imagined in a

611
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: million years. You know, we didn't think we'd ever be

612
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: able to afford a house in Washington. Um. And and

613
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: so I think Jay really really loved my success and

614
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: was so supportive. Um he moved to New York, um

615
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: where while his law practice was in d C. But

616
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: I think and that's the first sacrifice. Yeah, you know,

617
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: of the some of the pressure is you know, uh,

618
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: people gravitate too well known people. They're like a white light,

619
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: and it can be very destabilizing for a couple when

620
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: it's sort of like, you know, they're talking talking, Oh,

621
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: I want you to meet my husband, and they're like hi,

622
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: and then they turned back right to you, and it's demoral.

623
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: It's well, it's just kind of you know, it's tough

624
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: on anybody's ego. I would feel that way if I

625
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: was the wife of a well known person. You know, Um,

626
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: I bet a lot of wives feel that way. Like, Hey,

627
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: in fact, you know I was at a big international

628
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: Women's Day event that Time magazine gave and someone said,

629
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: they you know, they put on my card Flees wife,

630
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a second, I'm a person

631
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: in my own right. She was so angry, and justifiably so,

632
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: because she's an incredible woman and you know, and so

633
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: so I think it just does when when somebody is

634
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: well known, it does put pressure on the relationship. And um,

635
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: you know it's hard. I mean, just to turn the table.

636
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: It's only well known. Well, a woman has a power

637
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: job and then the guy has to move across the

638
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: country for them, and she's got to go. This is

639
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: her this is her moment, meaning it's happening when and

640
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: when the tables are hot, you press your bets and

641
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: so it's not always easy for the other person because

642
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, you're taking a toll on your relationship. It's

643
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: happened to me, It happens to me, But you're you're

644
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: in rare air and it's important to you as a

645
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: woman and as a business woman. So anyway, you said,

646
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: Filip the tables this is I want you to get

647
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: your thought out. But anyway, no, no, no, no, that's

648
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: that that's true. And uh, you know, I think there

649
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: should be more um honestly counseling for people who are

650
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: who are struggling with these issues because they're real. Um,

651
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: they're they're hard to talk about, um and and they

652
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: can be very damaging to a relationship. And I think, um,

653
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, I remember Jay saying someday I'd like to

654
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: maybe run for office in Virginia and I remember thinking, well, yeah,

655
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: and if that happens, I'm going to have to make

656
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: I'll make sacrifices for you what I have. Would that

657
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: have really happened? You know, who knows, But um, you know,

658
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: it's it's very very tricky. And people are kind of

659
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: gross too in terms of how they interface with famous

660
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: people they don't mean to be. But you know, I

661
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: was always so grateful when someone took a genuine interest

662
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: in Jay and um, you know, and didn't just sort

663
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: of give a cursory hello and then turned back to me.

664
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: He was much smarter and more interesting than I was,

665
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: but because I was on TV, I was deemed, you know,

666
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: more worthy of their their attention, and that always really

667
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: bugged the ship out of me. And you know, fast forward, Um,

668
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: John is is I mean, we're in a different place.

669
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: John is very successful in his own right as Jay was,

670
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: and Jay would have been even more successful how he

671
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: lived and um, but sometimes it bucks him. Sometimes it

672
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: bugs him. He's like, currct, come on, come up with

673
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: an exit question, because if someone comes up to me,

674
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: I'm still that you know, sinery people pleaser. I want

675
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: to make sure they like me. I want to make

676
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: sure they tell their friends I'm nice and I you know,

677
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: and so sometimes I'll end up having like a four

678
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: minute conversation with people, know, as we're going to a

679
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: restaurant to be seated, and he'll be like, that's rude.

680
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: You know, that's rude. You know, come up with the

681
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: exit question, say it's nice to meet you. And he

682
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: gets send patients sometimes and I don't blame him, but

683
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: it's it's really this hard. You know, you're just navigating.

684
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: You want been trained for that, you literally are I've

685
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: been around with how I've been with Hoda, same story.

686
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: She said that Ann Curry told her it's one person

687
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: at a time. This whole success is one person at

688
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: a time, and every person you talked to, and Hoda

689
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: has that same training. It's like a person who's gone

690
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: to the military and they're gonna do the hospital corners

691
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: on their bed. You just do what I've been with her,

692
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: like so gracious, so nice to every single person that's tiring,

693
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: that has to take a toll on you. It is tiring,

694
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: but it's also I mean it's luckily for me it

695
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: comes pretty naturally because I actually do love talking to

696
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: people and meeting new people and hearing their stories. Like

697
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: as I was saying earlier, But um, you know, it

698
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: is it is. It is time consuming and exhausting. And

699
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: but also you know, I always think it's flattering. You know,

700
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: that means something to someone, or they admire you, respect you,

701
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: maybe they are emulating you in some aspect of your life,

702
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: and so I'm very grateful for that as well. Um,

703
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: and you know they're high class problems after all. But

704
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: but you know, I remember Rosie O'Donnell used to not

705
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: this was back when people would ask for autographs, which

706
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: nobody asked for anymore except for those weirdos who are

707
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: waiting outside with the sign pictures of you from I'm like,

708
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: what do they do with those? Do they sell on

709
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: ebays at the deal? I'm like, I think, so, I

710
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know but anyway, um, so, so

711
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: I remember Rosie had a policy where like I think

712
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: there was a certain age cut off. And like, on

713
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: one hand, I really admire her because she didn't care.

714
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: But she would just tell people know or uh and

715
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: and I would think, they're gonna go back and they're

716
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: gonna tell all their friends that Rosie O'Donnell. You think

717
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: she's nice on TV? She was not nice or you know?

718
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: And and why do I care so much? Why do

719
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: I care what they go back and tell their friends. Well,

720
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: it's because I want them to like me, because I

721
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: have that sickness. I don't think it's only that though

722
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: I think you care about them, you know that they're

723
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: part of this whole ride. And you know, I remember,

724
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: it's funny that you just said that. So I was

725
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: at a sports game or something, some sports event, and

726
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: I went into the bathroom. You know, you're in those

727
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: circular like someone behind the stall. They came in the

728
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: bathroom and can we get it? And I was like

729
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: just dying to go pee, and I said can I

730
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: just you know? And then I went in and I

731
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: came back and they weren't there, and I walked out

732
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: of the bathroom to like look to see if they

733
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: were there. It's happening to me in an airport's tour

734
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: in one moment and with my daughter and she's hanging

735
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: on my arm and I'm gonna missing, gonna miss the

736
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: gate or something's happening and it really isn't the best time.

737
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: And I then think about it for like an hour,

738
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: Like I think about like that person walked away and

739
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: it would have been there, they would have made their

740
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: whole day and I had to pee, and you know,

741
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: it's like you just obsessed. I obsessed over things like that.

742
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: So I do get it. I I do to you know.

743
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: I sometimes would say to people if they came up

744
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: and said, you look just like Katie Kirk, and I'd say, like,

745
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: I know everybody tells me that, and then I feel

746
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: so guilty. I would run run after them and say,

747
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: actually I am, I am her. And but it's also listen,

748
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: it feeds into your narcissism. Let's be honest. I mean

749
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: you've have to psychoanalyze this. Uh, you get kind of

750
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: used to the adulation, and UM, you know it's it's there.

751
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: There's a narcissistic aspect of this that that um probably

752
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 1: you know it's not altruism to make someone's stay. It's

753
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: also you know, people get off on the fact that

754
00:39:53,680 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: someone's coming off to them and saying how wonderful they are. Well,

755
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: what about relevance and age? So you started, you know

756
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: a little fawn. So what do you think now about

757
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: your your security as it as it pertains to getting

758
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: older and are you relevant? And a lot of these

759
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: young kids don't even remember when you are on TV.

760
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,959
Speaker 1: They don't know who you are, Like, do you care?

761
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: Do you think about that? You try to be younger,

762
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: You're trying to keep up with the kids these days.

763
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: What do you think about all that? I'm pretty accepting

764
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: of it. You know, I think there's you know, uh

765
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: to everything, there is a season, as they say in

766
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: the Bible, and the birds sang, um, you know, I think, uh,

767
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, I I still love doing what I'm doing.

768
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: I'm just doing it differently. Um. I think that I'm

769
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: really proud of this generation of email journalists who are

770
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: kicking ass and doing a great job, especially the hard

771
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: news folks that I really admired or you know, going

772
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: to war zones from lindsay A Dario to Clarissa Ward

773
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: to all these incredible women, Sabrina from The Daily and um,

774
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, so I'm really I'm really proud of all

775
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: of them. And I think about it, and it's exhausting work,

776
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: you know, to be I covered a rock, I went

777
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, um, you know, obviously nine eleven. And I'm

778
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: not saying I couldn't do it, but you know what,

779
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: I want to be sleeping on a cot in Ukraine,

780
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: scared to death and you know, getting very little sleep

781
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: and being on TV and then being judged for the

782
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: way you look on TV all the time. You know,

783
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd really be up for that, um,

784
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: And the scrutiny is different these days. And I think

785
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: about that With Anderson. I watched him. I think he

786
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: has at least a baby. I think he might have

787
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: two babies at home, or maybe it's just a baby. Okay,

788
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: so he's there and he has children, and just thinking

789
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: how exhausted he must be and how dirty he must feel.

790
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: But it's so important, it's so important, and they're doing

791
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: such incredible work. But I also think about, like, you know,

792
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: if I covered a war when my kids were little,

793
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: especially as a single mom. I think one time I

794
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: said I I really I don't want to cover a war.

795
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: I have two children. I don't want them to be orphans,

796
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: and I have to be I have to be responsible.

797
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: And I got criticized in some corners for saying that,

798
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: but you know, if I had gone, I would have

799
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: gotten criticized by the audience for leaving my children. And so,

800
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: you know, especially I think women, Um, it's interesting that

801
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: you point it out. Anderson, I thought about that too.

802
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: I thought about, you know, all the parents who are

803
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: covering that, but I think with women, and of course

804
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: as a single mother, I had extraordinary pressure on me

805
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,280
Speaker 1: in terms of every move I made and what should

806
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: I be doing? And then after Jay died, who should

807
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: I be dating? And you know, having people follow me

808
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: around with cameras that was so creepy. But to get

809
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: to your your point, I mean, listen, those were some

810
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: of the best days of my professional life. I loved

811
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: every minute of it. Do I do I miss it sometimes?

812
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean during COVID there was very little and in

813
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: a way I was reporting the news like everybody else

814
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: was on zooms and you know, having longer conversations and

815
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: I could ever have on the Today Show, where you know,

816
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: the the interviews are like three or four minutes. And

817
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: I love kind of using my intellect to help people

818
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: contextualized stories and give them a deeper perspective and understanding.

819
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: And you know, and the grass is always greener, you know.

820
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm well. Sometimes I miss like the daily

821
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: cadence of television. I always think there's so much I'm

822
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: doing that those people wish they could be doing. I'm

823
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: developing documentaries like scripted series. I've got a team of

824
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: of you know, thirty five people who we've employed to

825
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: to do the news in a thoroughly modern way. I

826
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm writing on the back of a dinosaur,

827
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 1: which I think I felt like on my later days

828
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: and television news that this just isn't the way people

829
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: are consuming news and information. So um, you know, I

830
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: feel really happy where I am. And um. In terms

831
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: of getting older, that is hard. That is hard. You know.

832
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: I just turned sixty five in January. I'm like, how

833
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: did that happen? I look at my face and I'm like,

834
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: oh God, this is why God makes you not see

835
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: very well as you get older. Because sometimes I look

836
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: in the mirror, I'm like, I look good, and then

837
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: I put my glasses on, I'm like, holy shit, Oh no,

838
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: what about when they say you look great, by the way,

839
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: But what about when they send you on the pictures

840
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: for a magazine and they're like these haven't been photoshopp yet.

841
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, no shit, who could tell? You know? That

842
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: was a day you felt fresh as a daisy, You

843
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: slept ninety two hours, you had fifteen pounds of makeup,

844
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: you had your hair done, you had a pick crew,

845
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: and you still look like ship Like that's not the

846
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: best and it's so funny. I mean, you know, it

847
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: is what it is. I mean, I'm grateful, and I

848
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: think because I've had so much loss in my life.

849
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: Jay at forty two, my sister Emily at fifty four,

850
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: I feel lucky for every day I wake up, and

851
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, my biggest problem is I feel a little

852
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: creaky getting out of bed, you know, or I've gotten

853
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: a little softer around the middle. I just you know,

854
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: we're so lucky. We're all terminal, and every day you

855
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: have as a gift, so you know, But but do

856
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: I long for the days when when I just kind

857
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: of I was thinking about that, like when I just

858
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: got out of bed and I'd still look pretty good

859
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: or my you know, and my skin look good and yeah,

860
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: and you know, um, it happens to everything everyone. Gravity,

861
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, has its effect. I was somebody the other

862
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: day I interviewed Patricia Heaton for my talk show, which

863
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: is my which I renamed my Stupid talk Show. Even

864
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: though I had a great team that that that format

865
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: just was not made for me. And um, and I

866
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: interviewed Patricia Heaton and she said, I said something like,

867
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: how you doing? She said great? She said, I don't know.

868
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: We were talking about getting older or something. She says,

869
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: my vagina looks like one of those suede coin back

870
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: coin persons, those twade draw string coin purses, and you

871
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: know they were kind of yellow, remember, and they were

872
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: kind of like a mustard. And now I can never

873
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: unsee that. That kills me. That's really funny, right, Um, Well,

874
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, you've had an incredible run and you still

875
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: go your table are still going hot? Do you are

876
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: you risk here? Do you worry about cancelation? Do you

877
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: think about that? Oh you guarded? Oh my god, yes,

878
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: of course, I mean, I mean I've I've thought a

879
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: lot about this, and I'm very interested in the topic

880
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: and sort of the impact it's having on all of us,

881
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think, I I'm so supportive of so

882
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: many of these social movements that have taken place of

883
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: reckoning with systemic racism, and how the tentacles of that

884
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: has affected so many aspects of our society. Obviously gender

885
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: parity and pay equity and all those things, and and

886
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: also a much deeper understanding and appreciation and acceptance of

887
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: people who are different, you know. I mean, I was

888
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: talking to someone earlier today and she was saying, the

889
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: soccer player and her wife, and I was thinking, Gosh,

890
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: when we grew up, we would I mean, we would

891
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: no more say that in a public forum. You know.

892
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: We thought our health teachers might be you know, they

893
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: were roommates. What did that mean? I didn't even. I

894
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: was so nice. I didn't even. I didn't know a

895
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: gay person. And I went to school in Long Island,

896
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: New York. I didn't know, Like, they weren't gay, they

897
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: would just they were just different, just different. They weren't gay,

898
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: they were just alternative and into like you know, boy, George,

899
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: it's crazy, I know, I mean, it's just so so different.

900
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons I really yeah, I agree,

901
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: And I really liked writing my book because as as

902
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: as upsetting and depressed as we get about the state

903
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: of the world, and there are plenty of reasons to

904
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: feel that way when you look back at the progress

905
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: we've made over the last three or four decades, it's

906
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: been really quite quite stunning. But and I think sometimes

907
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: with with social movements, the pendulum swings, you know, sometimes

908
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: a bit too too far, uh, and there is collateral

909
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: damage sort of in its wake. But I do think

910
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: that we have to be in a place where we

911
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: can have conversations, because how do you learn, how do

912
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: you grow if you can have conversations, and that we

913
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: give people, you know, we're generous with them when they

914
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: make mistakes or we explain why we were offended. I mean,

915
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: I write about that too. When I asked that really

916
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: stupid question of the transgender guest on my talk show

917
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: about her private parts, which was an incredibly offensive question,

918
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: and I remember my producers saying, do you want us

919
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: to take this out? I said no, because Laverne Cox

920
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: later came on and told me why anatomy has nothing

921
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: to do with identity, and I said, I'm a pretty

922
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: educated fairly sophisticated person. If I'm having you know, if

923
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: like I don't guess there are a lot of other

924
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: people that don't get it, keep it in so we

925
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: can can can provide a teachable moment. Oh, I had

926
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: a whole thing with on this show about because I

927
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: was talking about parents that had an issue with um,

928
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: someone in a in a camp bunk, and I was

929
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: called transphobic everywhere. And the truth is, it's okay to

930
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: get an educate, like it's okay to have a conversation.

931
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: And I didn't express a personal opinion about I didn't

932
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: even understand, and um, what's happened. So, for example, I

933
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: had Adam Carolla on the show the other day. I

934
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: don't know that much about him. I know he's successful

935
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: in this space. I've had many Republicans, I've had Democrats.

936
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: I take money from both in relief. And he said

937
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: some things that will definitely prove to be very provocative

938
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: and controversial. But even if it's not that you think

939
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: someone said something that's even quote unquote wrong, or even

940
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: if they don't think they said something wrong, and they

941
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: won't even if you tell them that they did, it's

942
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: people have to listen to other people's opinions. It's why

943
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: people were secretly voting in the election because someone just says,

944
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: someone you said to me on my show during the election,

945
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: Oh well please, I mean I've worked at ABC News

946
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: for this many years, so blah blah blah. I was like,

947
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: what does that mean? You get two votes instead of one?

948
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: If you work at ABC News, you get too and

949
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: you still you still get one vote. So everybody has

950
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: to have a conversation and hear what other people are thinking,

951
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: even if you totally don't agree with it. But everyone's

952
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: gotten into this curse each other out mode. You're canceled.

953
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: You're something you said if these famous celebrities ten years

954
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: ago could be in black face and doing things that

955
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to do now and not get you know,

956
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: so that means that they didn't know they didn't do

957
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: it because they knew, so now they know. But they're

958
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: gonna get canceled now. You know. People have to be

959
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 1: a little bit forgiving and be able to be get

960
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: educated and learn the language that you don't know. And

961
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: if you spent all day learning everything you're supposed to know,

962
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: that you'd get in trouble for you would never beat,

963
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be out of the house. There's too much

964
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: to learn, Like it's every day you have to make

965
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: a mistake to learn. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean,

966
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: I definitely think that just shutting people down and seeing

967
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: things in total black and white and not kind of

968
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: giving them the space to learn is is really damaging

969
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: to progress and moving things forward. And um, you know,

970
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: I think about this a lot. Is the shame element,

971
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, just part of the price that a society

972
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: pays for for for moving the goal post and for

973
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 1: making social progress. But it seems to me it's just

974
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: it's just not a great way to encourage civil discourse

975
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: and and and appreciate that people evolve and learn and

976
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,479
Speaker 1: by the way, make mistakes like all these I think

977
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: that that this idea that everyone's perfect, they've never said

978
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: anything that is inappropriate or thought anything, because they are

979
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: all products of you know, cultural conditioning and their circumstances

980
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: and the environment in which they were raised. Um, it's

981
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: just this the you know, the whole glass houses thing

982
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: of it too. And well, because I did a whole

983
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: thing on what is the cancelation policy? I'd like to

984
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: know because I'll know and I want to know. The

985
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: can just tell me the cancelation policy. Okay, So I

986
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 1: think that people who do paint themselves to be perfect,

987
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: and who are very arrogant and who have two separate lives,

988
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: maybe their public persona is very different than who they

989
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: really are. I think when I think they get jammed

990
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: up and then that's those are the ones the public

991
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: really wants to pull down. When people show their perfect relationship,

992
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: their perfect timing, their perfect jewelry, the thing, the love,

993
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: We're perfect, we love each other, everybody's Google Gaga. Then

994
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: when they've shoved it down their throat and then and

995
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 1: then they break up. But they want their privacy. Well,

996
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: we bought into this whole ride. We took the ride up,

997
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: we're taking the ride down. So you gotta pick. You know,

998
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: you got to decide how to live your life privately

999
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: and publicly. And I think that does affect the um.

1000
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: The latitude, I think is that the word that people

1001
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: will give you to make a mistake. I think there's

1002
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: also a lot of schadenfreud in in sort of seeing

1003
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: how these things play out, because I think a lot

1004
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: of people who are kind of on their way up

1005
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: where there's a lot of professional jealousy and competition that um,

1006
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: you know, people are looking for a chink in the armor,

1007
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: and when it happens, it's like a swarm of bees.

1008
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: The social media mob can just kind of descend and

1009
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: pick this person apart. I'm mixing metaphors because I'm kind

1010
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: of using like animals and bees, but you know what,

1011
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So yeah, So I think

1012
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: I think there's something primal about you know, and and

1013
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: and and I try to be a really compassionate person.

1014
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: There's the side of me when somebody is being taken

1015
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: down I think, oh oh, and then I kind of

1016
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: have to stop myself, you know, because it's this kind

1017
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: of thing that people think, oh, that person is too

1018
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: big for his bridges, and you know, he deserved being

1019
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: taken down to size. You know. In Australia they have

1020
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: a whole term for it called tall poppy syndrome. You know,

1021
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: you build people up just to them down. There's something

1022
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: really weird and vicarious about kind of people investing themselves

1023
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: and their attention and their emotions to somebody in that way,

1024
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: and then when they are successful, start mistrusting them or

1025
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: thinking well maybe maybe they now I think they're all

1026
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: that and a bag of chips. Right. I know it's

1027
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: fascinating now, I get it too, but I call it

1028
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: the wolves at the end of the bed when too

1029
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: many good things are happening like and too many I

1030
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: don't like when too many good things are being written.

1031
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: I get it gives me a little bit of anxiety

1032
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: because I feel like you can't drink your own kool aid,

1033
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: and the wolves are at the end of the bed.

1034
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: Nothing even trees don't grow to the sky. So you

1035
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: gotta check yourself and just be like, all right, let's

1036
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: take we could be focused over there. Now, let's take

1037
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: a minute of not me, because I you know, you

1038
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: gotta be stay humble in that way. I think it

1039
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: definitely definitely know And so with the and I don't

1040
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: know with the matt lower thing, did you feel like

1041
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: you your personal opinion about it, everyone was like putting

1042
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: focus on you and what you thought about it, and

1043
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: like because you were like, you know, raggedy Ann and

1044
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: Andy like you were you know, hand in hand in

1045
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: in in the world. And did you feel like you

1046
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: had to cower and hide because you don't want everyone

1047
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,240
Speaker 1: to know exactly what your opinion was? Because you also

1048
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: did have a professional relationship with him. How did that

1049
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 1: affect you? Well, I think it's really fascinating that that

1050
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: in these cases where men are doing some of these things,

1051
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: why suddenly is that on the woman to either explain

1052
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: it or react to it? Right. Um, you know I

1053
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: always found that kind of perplexing. But um, you know,

1054
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: I think I think I felt Um, yes, I think

1055
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: there were a lot of eyes on me. Oh, she

1056
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 1: had to know. They said that about everyone who worked

1057
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: with Matt um and and and of course I didn't

1058
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: know about his behavior year and about some of the

1059
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 1: things that came out by the way, Um, you know,

1060
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: ten years after I left the Today Show, but some

1061
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: of it was going on when I was there. And

1062
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: I think that you know, all people, I think also

1063
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: don't appreciate and realize that it was a different time. Now.

1064
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: This is separate from me not knowing what Matt was

1065
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: up to, because he was extremely discreet about his behavior. Um.

1066
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: But you know, when when I was at NBC, and

1067
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: I think the net all the networks were kind of

1068
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: like this. It was sort of like a free for all.

1069
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: People were hooking up doing stuff. It wasn't my thing

1070
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: because I'm really weird about marriage and being faithful. And

1071
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: I had two little kids, and I love my husband

1072
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: and it's just not my jam. But there was a

1073
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: lot of that going on, a lot of affairs with

1074
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: people in high positions. Um. And and so I talked

1075
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: to a woman at Stanford, Maryanne Cooper, and she said,

1076
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, these permissive environments that existed where there was

1077
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: so much in her office hanky panky really opens the

1078
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: door for more serious transgressions. And um, you know, I

1079
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: different culture, different culture, and I'm glad. I'm glad the

1080
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: culture has changed because you know, it wasn't cool. Um,

1081
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: I think I think there's it's really uncomfortable when people

1082
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: know that someone is sleeping with the boss, and so

1083
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: they become a proxy of that person. So you have

1084
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: to you have to worry about making the boss like you.

1085
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: Now you have to worry about making that person like you.

1086
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: And such a good point. I never really think about that.

1087
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: That's an interesting that's an interesting point. I will say

1088
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: for people saying that you knew I did the Today

1089
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: Show a long time ago for some health food thing.

1090
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: And I've been on with Matt a million times. I

1091
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: mean not a million times, probably half a dozen times.

1092
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: Never a single flirtation, So I could absolutely believe that

1093
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know because you're not the audience for that. No,

1094
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: and I think you know, or the proxies, you're not

1095
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: the audience for any of it. So you know, you

1096
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: hang out with people that want to hang out the

1097
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: way that you want to hang out, So no one's

1098
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: coming to you about you know, that kind of after

1099
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: office party, right, And you know, I wish they had

1100
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: if they felt like they needed to. I think we

1101
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: now live in a you know, there's been enough cultural

1102
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: shifts that it's not only unacceptable, but I think that

1103
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: it's not riddled with the kind of shame and secrecy

1104
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: that it once was. And you know, I think things

1105
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: have really changed for the better. What is your reaction

1106
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: to Morning Show? Do you laugh at it? Do you

1107
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: do you like it? You? Did you really invested in it?

1108
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: I mean I watched it because I found it fascinating.

1109
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all um, you know, it's it's all fiction, um,

1110
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: But I think there are some things about it that

1111
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: I think are really interesting that that sort of I

1112
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: don't know, the politics weren't that intense, I don't think,

1113
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: but you know, I thought they captured the idea of

1114
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: Matt being very well that Steve Carrell character, being very

1115
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: beloved and yet also very sketchy and shady in terms

1116
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: of the way he conducted himself, you know, that kind

1117
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: of scene in the hotel room after the Las Vegas shooting,

1118
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: and how he kind of seduced that young young woman

1119
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: and how he abused his power in that way. And

1120
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: I always was bothered by the callousness, uh that that

1121
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: that you have to have UM when you're sort of

1122
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: it's not because you are truly attracted or really want

1123
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: a relationship with the person. It seemed, you know. Again,

1124
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: I never really discussed this with Matt, but it seemed

1125
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: sort of cold and transactional. And I guess that's the

1126
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: difference between men and women and how they see sex

1127
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,479
Speaker 1: and relationships. But I always felt like it it wasn't

1128
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: because he was falling in love with someone or wasn't,

1129
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, unhappily married, And I think it was something

1130
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: else altogether, which all never really understand, maybe like someone's

1131
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: because I can because I can. You know, some people

1132
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: do things because they can um, and it's right there.

1133
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: I think they're unsuchable, you know. Yeah, he I mean,

1134
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: no matter what in that situation, this was that, this

1135
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 1: was the this was I remember he was beloved, so

1136
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: I bet you there, Yeah, that's true. And like with

1137
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: with professional basketball players, there's a line outside their hotel door,

1138
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: But does that mean that does that get them permission

1139
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: to you? Does that mean all those women are there

1140
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: there's for the taking? You know, like as as I

1141
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: quoted Peter Parker in my book, with great power comes

1142
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: great responsibility. And uh, you know, at some point, yeah,

1143
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, and people still say women were throwing themselves

1144
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: at Matt and I'm sure that's true. But he you know,

1145
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: he was the face of a huge important, you know,

1146
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: money making venture, and um, you know, he had an

1147
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: obligation to comport himself with the with a certain degree

1148
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: of of dignity. And but but then you you you

1149
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, think about you juxtapose that with the environment

1150
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: and the culture that existed back then, which again, because

1151
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: it was allowed, it was it was celebrated, is what

1152
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: you're saying. You're saying, it was what the culture was.

1153
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: It was accepted and then some quarters encouraged. Right. I

1154
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: even write about how the head of HR at a

1155
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: certain point was stopping some uh you know, associate producer.

1156
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Wow, that's crazy, that's actually really crazy. Yeah,

1157
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: the rules of the game have changed, and um, you're right,

1158
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: you have to. Well, it's so funny. My name name

1159
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: of my book is literally business is Personal, because the

1160
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: way you conduct yourself in business should be a reflection

1161
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: of how you conduct yourself in your personal life. I mean, frankly,

1162
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: that's just what it is. Who you are in businesses

1163
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: who you are as a person. I don't say, oh,

1164
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: it's not it's not personal. It's just business, you know,

1165
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: because they're they're they the blinds are are totally overlap

1166
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: and blurred. I love your perspective on this, I really do.

1167
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: I haven't ever heard it. That's why, you know. I

1168
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: was curious about your perspective on that. And then I

1169
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 1: won't keep you too much longer. Just just about I

1170
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: just want to acknowledge that you've gone through such tremendous loss.

1171
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean, just death is such I mean, and it

1172
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: takes such an emotional toll, and your whole life path changed,

1173
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: for your children, for your next relationship. Um, you know,

1174
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: is it your faith that kind of gets you through

1175
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: something like that? Is that this is your spiritual path. Um,

1176
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: how do you sort of reconcile that, you know, I'm

1177
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: not particularly spiritual. Um, I don't really have a strong faith,

1178
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: even though I like. I like going to church because

1179
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: I like the community of it. I like the rituals,

1180
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: you know. I like that I sing songs that I've

1181
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: been singing since I was a kid going to Sunday

1182
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: school with my dad. Um. I think that I don't know,

1183
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: maybe a Midwestern pragmatism that I got from my mom,

1184
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, who used to say things like children will

1185
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: kill you if you let them, you know, and she

1186
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: just was very matter of fact, and you know, shit happens.

1187
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: It's terrible. There's great beauty in this life and great

1188
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: heartache and tragedy. And you know, I never imagined in

1189
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: a million years that I would be a widow, Like

1190
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: that word. It just never, you know, I talked about

1191
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: like that was Carol Brady and the Brady Bunch, and

1192
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: that was you know, I just I just never ever

1193
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: imagined it. But why wouldn't you know? It happens to

1194
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: so many people. There's so much suffering and there's so

1195
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,919
Speaker 1: much sadness, and I think it's made me a much

1196
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: more I think I was always an EmPATH, but it's

1197
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: made me even more empathetic. And I just think it

1198
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: makes you more appreciative because life is fragile and anything

1199
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: can happen at any time. And I think that I

1200
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: didn't want Jay's death to kill our entire family. I

1201
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: wanted you know, I'm an optimistic person. I'm a person

1202
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: who tries to find joy. I really love my life

1203
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: and love life in general. That sounds so cheesy, but

1204
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: and I think I just sort of saw it as Okay,

1205
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: this awful thing happened. I can't believe how much Jay

1206
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: was ripped off. He didn't get to see so many milestones.

1207
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,919
Speaker 1: But I'm still here, and Ellie and carry are still here,

1208
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: and We're gonna have to pick up the pieces, and

1209
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to build a life for these girls

1210
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: and for myself selfishly. And I think I just said

1211
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 1: I've got to I've got to rebuild. And I think

1212
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: that got me through. I didn't want I didn't want

1213
01:06:54,600 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: my life destroyed because Jay tragically got answer. And um,

1214
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, Thomas Jefferson said the earth belongs to the living,

1215
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: and I kept thinking about that. Wow, I mean, you

1216
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: survived something so intense. Well, you know, and I could

1217
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: have thrown in the towel, but instead I thought, you know,

1218
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: I'll always miss Jay and always wonder what our life

1219
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: would have been like had this not happened. But I

1220
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: can't change I can't change it. So what can what?

1221
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 1: What can I control? I can control the way I

1222
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: I live because I couldn't keep him from dying. So

1223
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: I think I was just very practical about it. Honestly,

1224
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: M Well, what about your husband now? Does he ever

1225
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: feel like he's following in footsteps? Does what's the dynamic

1226
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: with your daughters and your marriage now? I mean that

1227
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: it was a big loss, he John, Well, you know they.

1228
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: I think fourteen years passed from the time Ah Jay

1229
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: died to when I got married remarried, and um, you know,

1230
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: I am so lucky because John is incredible about Jay.

1231
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: You know, he he understands that Jay will always be

1232
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 1: a part of my life. He understands that Jay is

1233
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: Ellen Carrey's dad. He appreciates me honoring him. He never

1234
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: feels resentful about it, he never feels competitive. He's so

1235
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 1: comfortable in his own skin and so confident that you know,

1236
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: he's just the most generous person that way, and I'm

1237
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: so grateful, and you know, he understands there's room in

1238
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: my heart for both of them, and and I don't know,

1239
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: I feel so lucky that he is so good with

1240
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: who he is and knows knows how much I love

1241
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: him and how important he is to me, and how

1242
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: grateful I am that I finally found somebody who loves

1243
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 1: me just the way I am. You know, who have

1244
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 1: done a great relationship, you really really do. I mean,

1245
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: it's not perfect. He bugs me, I bug him, you know,

1246
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: we laugh about it. He makes fun of me, and

1247
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm a slab, and he's a neat freak,

1248
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: and you know, he can be a little controlling at times,

1249
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, we just accept each other

1250
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: and and and just really, you know what, we really

1251
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: enjoy each other. Like I say about John, and I

1252
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: think he's sometimes like that's what you say about He's

1253
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: really good company, you know, joy. I enjoy his company.

1254
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: I like being with him. I like, by the way,

1255
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: when I'm not with him too, because I'm a very

1256
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: independent person and that's super important. But he has a

1257
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: wonderful family. His father is a doll. He's don't don't

1258
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 1: hopefully he won't listen to this. He just he's going

1259
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 1: to be ninety one. I don't know if he's a fan,

1260
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: but we could, we could call him. He's on the line.

1261
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: He's very Hansy, Bethany, but he's he's a ski instructor

1262
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: and Aspen. He's hilarious. His mother is wonderful, sophisticated. They're

1263
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: so interesting and interested. And so I'm married into this

1264
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: incredible family, and and Herbie and Paula. John's parents have

1265
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: always made Ellie and Carrey feel like they are their grandchildren.

1266
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 1: Oh that's so beautiful. Oh my god, I love this.

1267
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: I want to meet everybody. I mean, I've met John

1268
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 1: because I no longer have my parents that I miss

1269
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: them so much, but the fact that I'm so blessed

1270
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: to not only have this wonderful person who always has

1271
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: my back, Bethany, that's what you want. You've got to

1272
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: have someone who has your back a hundred and ten percent.

1273
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 1: So he always has my back, and and I've got

1274
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: this extraordinary family, and I'm just so I love you.

1275
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you just said that, because paul is

1276
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 1: coming from Boston right now, and I'm gonna be extra

1277
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: extra loving because I've just been very centered in the

1278
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: Ukraine and sometimes you get a little like self involved

1279
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: with just something else, and I'm going to be very

1280
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pour myself into him tonight. Well, you know,

1281
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: I life is so strange. You never know what's going

1282
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 1: to happen. And you know, I always wanted to write

1283
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 1: a country song like called if I only knew, Like

1284
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 1: if you had a crystal ball and you could see

1285
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 1: that maybe someone wasn't going to be in your life

1286
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: as long as you anticipated or hoped, would you feel

1287
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: good about how how loving and giving you were when

1288
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: they were around. So I always think about that, Like

1289
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 1: when people are sick of their husbands or they're driving

1290
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 1: them crazy or something, I always say, you know, remember

1291
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: this person might not be around forever. So just we

1292
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: all take each other for granted. It's so easy, it's

1293
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: so you know, it's it's normal in a way. But

1294
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: but try not to and kind of remember that. All right.

1295
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:05,719
Speaker 1: Well I love that, So I just love it. Yeah,

1296
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: you have to go on the road. You could be

1297
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: like the Tony Robbins of emotional wellness. I swear God,

1298
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't I don't want to take those

1299
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: ice bats. Um, that's funny. I talked to Ryan about

1300
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: to Ryan's secrets about that recently. Um. Okay, so just

1301
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 1: one last thing in your career. This is not your

1302
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: personal family life, your rose and thorn of your career.

1303
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: Oh my rose, I guess would be getting the job

1304
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 1: at the Today Show. Wow, amazing. Okay, and my thorn

1305
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 1: would probably be going to CBS. Okay, well, very network related,

1306
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: but did you want it to be professional? Yeah, of course,

1307
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's funny. It's a one network to

1308
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: then you know what I mean. It's so so on

1309
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: brand for you, you know. But you know, I'm still

1310
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,560
Speaker 1: like people say, are you sorry you went to CBS?

1311
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: And you know, they're no guarantees. What would have happened

1312
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: if I had stayed at NBC, if I would have

1313
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: been pushed out, or if you know, I would have

1314
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 1: no longer been the flavor of the month, or if

1315
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: the ratings had gone down, they would have panicked and

1316
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: made a change, and you know, you never know, sort

1317
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: of the road less traveled what would have happened. But

1318
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: you know, all in all, I am really glad I

1319
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: went to CBS because I think it was it was

1320
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: an important step. Maybe it wasn't always fun, and you know, um,

1321
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 1: it was tough internally and externally for me at that

1322
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: at that time, but I'm still glad I did it

1323
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: because I think it was the right thing to do,

1324
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,839
Speaker 1: and I hope it I hope it kind of knocked

1325
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 1: down a barrier that was helpful to other women after me.

1326
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Well, I love you, Katie. You're the greatest.

1327
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,719
Speaker 1: I loved your book, sold fifty million copies of it already.

1328
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: It is amazing, It is so well written. You're amazing

1329
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: and for all your support it and I know this

1330
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 1: is not about you, but thank you for everything you're doing. Honestly,

1331
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,679
Speaker 1: you're you're you're a force of nature. If you look

1332
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,799
Speaker 1: that up in the dictionary has your pictures. Thanks Katie.

1333
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm working hard. I've got following your footsteps. So I

1334
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: have a wonderful day and give will be able to

1335
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: see each other in person soon me too. Alright, big

1336
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: hits to you. Thank you. Katie is so multidimensional, she's smart,

1337
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: so accomplished. I mean, she's interviewed presidents, I mean, world leaders,

1338
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 1: I mean, and she just was interviewed by me, which

1339
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: is funny to me. Uh, she's just like also got

1340
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 1: that midwestern mom vibe. She suffered loss, I mean in

1341
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible deaths in her life. Um she's cool

1342
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,600
Speaker 1: and hockey at the same time. I mean, I just

1343
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: really and but she had When she speaks, it's so

1344
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 1: inspirational and it's it's really you just it's educational in

1345
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: that way. She's emotionally intelligent, which I appreciate. What a career.

1346
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: What I mean, she's still going in such a strong

1347
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 1: and forceful way, but she has had just an extraordinary career. Um.

1348
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: I love talking to her. I love her as a person.

1349
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: She's very supportive and um, I just an honor to

1350
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: have spoken to her. So I appreciate you all listening.

1351
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 1: Remember to rate, review and subscribe. What a wonderful interview.

1352
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: So Happy Just Be is hosted by me, Bethany Franko

1353
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: Just Be as a production of the Real productions I

1354
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Blue Duck Media. Are EPs are Morgen Levois,

1355
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,599
Speaker 1: Antonio Enriquez, and Kara hit To catch more moments from

1356
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: the show, follow us on Instagram and Just Be with

1357
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: Bethany