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Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's just talk about this Brandy Caroline thing

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Speaker 1: that I know nothing about, except that I did text

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Speaker 1: Caroline to say like, I'm really sorry that you went

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Speaker 1: through that. I don't know Caroline that well. I've met her.

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Speaker 1: I just like her. I like her vibe. I I

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Speaker 1: like that she left. She's one of the I told

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Speaker 1: you there were fewer than five ever that have left.

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Speaker 1: They all are allowed to say in their own way

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Speaker 1: that they've chosen to not go back, and the wording

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Speaker 1: is approved by Bravo. But Caroline left on her own.

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Speaker 1: So we had a conversation about whether she'd ever go back,

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Speaker 1: and I had a feeling she might do something. And

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Speaker 1: so she goes back, goes to Morocco. Interesting place to go,

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Speaker 1: interesting trip, gonna sure to be crazy. And we hear

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Speaker 1: that allegedly. And I don't know Brandy. I think I've

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Speaker 1: met Brandy once. I enjoy her sometimes, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the Lands of the Swamp, she's done great, Like what

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Speaker 1: does she you know, she's she's polarizing and it's hard,

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Speaker 1: you know, she just says what she feels and whatever.

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Speaker 1: So no, no problem with Brandy, And well, who am

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Speaker 1: I to judge any of these people, and I really

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Speaker 1: don't like give them what they want. It's not easy

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Speaker 1: to be in that cesspool pay them what they want.

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Speaker 1: So apparently she touched Caroline's vagina and tried to make

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Speaker 1: out with her a couple of times. And so they're

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Speaker 1: in this country where you have to observe their cultures

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Speaker 1: and customs and respect in other country. It's not our country.

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Speaker 1: And you also don't want the reputation for being animals

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Speaker 1: and other countries. It's embarrassing enough Scary Island, and and

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Speaker 1: that they were embarrassed that we called St. John scary.

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Speaker 1: I didn't call it that, but the producers did that. Kelly,

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Speaker 1: I think first called it scary Island, and and that

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Speaker 1: like they're being called scary island, Like there is something

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Speaker 1: risky about having these shows filmed in your country, your region,

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Speaker 1: your municipality, your city, your state, your town, whatever, your province.

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Speaker 1: Sentile immediately, and that sounds just traumatic and embarrassing and stressful.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Caroline is a woman of a certain age,

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Speaker 1: and like, what the hell is she doing at that level?

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Speaker 1: And I heard that Alex, who I know, was supporting her,

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Speaker 1: and Alex, who may not have been the best Housewive

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Speaker 1: the most entertaining housewives back then. Um, probably because she's

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Speaker 1: a good nice person. I mean, she always seemed pretty

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Speaker 1: sound and sage and kind and quote unquote normal despite

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Speaker 1: her and her husband's wacky, you know, relationship and antics

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Speaker 1: on television. But like she was there to support Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and that's really nice. But it brings us to the

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Speaker 1: bigger conversation like what what the fuck? Overall, like what

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Speaker 1: the fuck? It's rewarded and celebrated this podcast Rewives has

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Speaker 1: been criticized because I trashed the Housewives, as if it

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Speaker 1: was like I trashed Gandhi, the Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa,

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Speaker 1: like I said. And I didn't trash. I said, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a place I wanted to be. It's a place

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Speaker 1: that I left for these reasons. You get asked. You

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Speaker 1: don't just walk out. No one asks you. So someone

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Speaker 1: asked you, what am I gonna say? What I'm because

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Speaker 1: I don't like the name like because because I don't

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Speaker 1: like the word Bravo, Like I left because I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be part of it. And then I didn't

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Speaker 1: participate in the Housewives book, which was a whole thing

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Speaker 1: because I think I'm better than and I would. So

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Speaker 1: then I do this podcast, which, as you've heard and

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Speaker 1: you've listened, we're not trashing anybody. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: issues in our lives that go on through these shows.

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Speaker 1: Like we're basically just breaking down a show, but we

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Speaker 1: get to so many other interesting topics. We're not saying like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this person is a piece of ship or that person

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Speaker 1: it's just so stupid to talk about salacious, dumb shit.

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Speaker 1: Oh a table was flipped, that's so interesting to talk

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Speaker 1: about it for an hour. No, we're talking about dynamics

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Speaker 1: between women and men and all of this, But like,

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Speaker 1: let's just talk about the fact that there's a woman

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Speaker 1: going to jail for six years for defrauding people. There's

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Speaker 1: another woman whose husband could go to jail for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his life and she was implicated because he

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Speaker 1: was stealing money. The concept of all of it together,

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Speaker 1: talking about how much it costs to get ready a

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Speaker 1: month plus then add that in with a husband who's stealing,

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Speaker 1: and then you see the house and it's like, hasn't

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Speaker 1: been updated for a thousand years Because everybody's hunting and stunting,

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Speaker 1: which is also gross. And then somebody falls off a

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Speaker 1: wagon and it's like sort of celebrated and entertained, and

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Speaker 1: somebody's cheating on their husband and it's like digging to

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Speaker 1: the depths of the earth to find out if it's

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Speaker 1: true or not. And people broke into the White House

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Speaker 1: through a prosthetic leg on a dance floor, like it

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Speaker 1: never ends, and so yeah, I left and I have

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Speaker 1: this show and I left and I wanted to leave it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not there and I don't go back because this

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Speaker 1: is like crazy now. It's like and it's just sort

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Speaker 1: of these antics that people laugh about on blogs and

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Speaker 1: on social media, and like it's really nasty shit. Like

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Speaker 1: I know that it didn't start I go back and

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Speaker 1: watch season one of Real Housewives in New York do

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Speaker 1: me a favor. It did not start out like that.

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Speaker 1: And season two, I'm up your I'm up here, You're

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Speaker 1: down here was like the biggest thing that ever happened.

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Speaker 1: It was like rock the Nation. It was it was

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Speaker 1: literally me at a table with someone saying to me

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Speaker 1: that they were above me, like two chileaders in high school.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like crazy stealing, fraud, you know, insanity. It's

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Speaker 1: just disgusting. So someone if someone did violate someone else's

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Speaker 1: body on a trip in another country. It's completely vile

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Speaker 1: and disgusting. I don't know Brandy. I know Caroline, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know what Brandy's going going through. And I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know. It wasn't there. I just know that,

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Speaker 1: Like if anyone saw anyone else on a trip in

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Speaker 1: another country, I'd be like, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed in

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Speaker 1: front of my child, Like what the fuss is going on?

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Speaker 1: And where is the line? Like, let's just and I'm

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Speaker 1: not holier than now, And this podcast is not holier

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Speaker 1: than now, but you watched. We're not trashing. We're trying

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Speaker 1: to get to the bottom what the funk is going

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Speaker 1: on with women, with society, what's going on? And it's

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Speaker 1: not better than And I will and have made mistakes,

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Speaker 1: and I've said things, I called people, I've called someone

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Speaker 1: a name that I will regret forever because it's not

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Speaker 1: who I am. But where is the line between decency

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Speaker 1: and being a fucking animal and just rewarding and celebrating it?

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Speaker 1: And years ago somebody recorded Andy Cohen on his show,

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Speaker 1: recorded it and he found out and like I said

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Speaker 1: to him, you know you reward bad behavior, Like this

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Speaker 1: is the place that rewards bad behavior. It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, and I don't know Fader either. She's

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Speaker 1: been very lovely, she was nice. I met her once,

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Speaker 1: but I think something happened with her on one of

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Speaker 1: the shows. She said something about Candy that wasn't true.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm hearing she's performing wonderfully and so celebrated.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't fucking matter what you did on that show.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you stole, lied, cheated, fuck, sucked, connived,

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Speaker 1: Nothing really matters. It's celebrated and rewarded. You just gotta

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Speaker 1: take a break and you come back. It just I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. In no other area do I know where

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Speaker 1: like bad behaviors rewarded and celebrated and like makes the

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Speaker 1: world go around and ratings and you know what I

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Speaker 1: haven't said is it's us we could I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't consume it. I don't watch it, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: being holier than that either. I just don't. I watch

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Speaker 1: it for rewives. I watched old iconic episodes for rewives.

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Speaker 1: I'm not like in the cycle of it, and it's

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Speaker 1: escapism for people and really famous, really accomplished people watch,

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Speaker 1: and good for Bravo and good for them. But I

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Speaker 1: guess there's got to be a line on what's celebrated

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Speaker 1: and on us. It's about us and our kids and

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Speaker 1: what we deem important and entertaining. And it's really hard.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to tell your kids what to watch, what

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Speaker 1: not to watch, what the filter? We're not the filter.

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Speaker 1: It's all a sea of swamp. That seems right. We're

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Speaker 1: sitting here. I'm sitting here talking about ship that doesn't

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Speaker 1: even affect my own life, and like, like it's real.

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Speaker 1: We are lawyers and we love to like talk about

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Speaker 1: other people's stuff. If everybody analyzed everything you've ever said

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Speaker 1: to your spouse at every dinner, every event, Jesus, you

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Speaker 1: haven't like given a side ie of your person or

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Speaker 1: you know, someone's board an event doesn't want to go,

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Speaker 1: and you're fucking grinding to the ground to go out

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Speaker 1: every goddamn night and keep your life together in a

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Speaker 1: blended five kids, seven person family. The fuck. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I thought that just that sparked something for me, like

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Speaker 1: what the hell? It comes up a lot negotiations and

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Speaker 1: what the housewives are paid. So picture this. You're a

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Speaker 1: woman of a certain age. You used to be married

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Speaker 1: to someone very famous, an actor like a Kelsey Grammar,

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Speaker 1: or you used to be married to someone in the

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Speaker 1: Morgan family, or you used to be married to account

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Speaker 1: or you're just a woman who's extremely wealthy and getting

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Speaker 1: older and kind of just wants something fun and adventurous

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Speaker 1: to do a little excitement, maybe a little fame, maybe

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Speaker 1: a little gleam, maybe a little sizzle. Or you're somebody

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Speaker 1: who really just you know, needs to to pay your bills,

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Speaker 1: wants to you know, has a big nut and you

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Speaker 1: want to find a way to to pay your bills.

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Speaker 1: Or like when Lisa Wrinna went on, she said she

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Speaker 1: took everything because she had some financial stresses and wanted

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Speaker 1: to reinvent and elevate. And she definitely did create a

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Speaker 1: new lucrative career out of it. She was selling on

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Speaker 1: QVC and product lines and all this stuff. And and

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Speaker 1: different people are on the show for different reasons, and

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Speaker 1: you really can't. You could blame the housewives for their behavior,

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Speaker 1: but in order to be successful in this franchise, you

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Speaker 1: have to keep raising the stakes. You can't fly under

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Speaker 1: the radar. You can't in this current climate, you can't

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Speaker 1: Alex mccour, Jacqueline, Lorita Kristin takeman your way through this.

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Speaker 1: You can't just be like a kind, nice, good person

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Speaker 1: that's connective tissue in this situation. You have to be

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Speaker 1: a Teresa Teflon gud j to whether the storm and

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Speaker 1: neany type, like a Charray type, like you know, these

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Speaker 1: these women candies fucking tough as nails, you know. And

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Speaker 1: also you're coming in new what do you bring into

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Speaker 1: the table? You either have to you know where Fendi

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Speaker 1: letters and gs and c's tattooed all over your body.

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Speaker 1: So the rich dripping is so elaborate, or the house

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Speaker 1: porn you're you're living in a house you can't even

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Speaker 1: afford because you've got to fake it ty and make

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Speaker 1: it or you have to do something fucking crazy because

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Speaker 1: that's what sells. So I can say each woman is

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Speaker 1: to be responsible for their own actions, and it's true.

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Speaker 1: But something about this spicy sauce and the alcohol mixed

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Speaker 1: in these situations, and it's almost impossible not to drink

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Speaker 1: because your adrenaline gets running and you think you're thirsty

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Speaker 1: and you're drinking alcohol and it seems like a good

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Speaker 1: idea and it calms your nerves. And I told you

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Speaker 1: that people are on anti anxiety meds that do these shows,

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are. And you know, the wheels

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Speaker 1: come off and you just start flying and you think

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Speaker 1: things are a good idea, and you say things because

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to. We all think crazy things every day.

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Speaker 1: You've said twenty things today that you probably couldn't say

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Speaker 1: out loud. You've thought a hundred things today you probably

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Speaker 1: couldn't think out loud. And on reality television, it's you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to kind of just say that ship and be

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Speaker 1: on filter. Be yourself, just go on and be yourself.

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Speaker 1: Then you be yourself, which may not be perfect, and

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Speaker 1: then you get punished for it. Be yourself, punch somebody

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Speaker 1: in the face, whatever it is. So there's a line

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Speaker 1: that's very difficult to ride. You're using your inside voice,

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Speaker 1: and it's like then you get in trouble for it.

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Speaker 1: You do things there's no way that in real life

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Speaker 1: of evil would throw a leg, that would flip a table,

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Speaker 1: that somebody would pull someone else's hair extension. So the

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Speaker 1: the antics and the the crazy outlandish actions and moves

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Speaker 1: and words that people have to create and produce to

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Speaker 1: keep up with something that's been going for years now,

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Speaker 1: and the drama keeps escalating, and you know, if you

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Speaker 1: didn't defraud a hundred of people, you're probably not going

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Speaker 1: to stay on the show. It's it's crazy. Most people

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Speaker 1: don't just survive on the show by just being normal

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Speaker 1: and like somebody really pleasant to be around. So it's

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Speaker 1: don't hate the player, hate the game, because the game

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Speaker 1: celebrates this debauchery, and the game celebrates scandal and conflict

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Speaker 1: and dueling and cheating and falling off the wagon and

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Speaker 1: all and uncovering and gotcha, finding out something about somebody

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Speaker 1: that they would never want anyone to know. That is gold,

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Speaker 1: revealing a big secret or skeleton that is platinum. So

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Speaker 1: when I say now in retrospect, in thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: and also I was only on three seasons and then

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Speaker 1: off and then on again for maybe four or five,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not for during the whole thing. It's

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Speaker 1: been over fifteen years. It's not that much. Maybe half.

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Speaker 1: It's a different game now. And when someone asks me

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Speaker 1: about the money, I think, like, given whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: Because but I also don't always blame I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the powers that be, their responsibility to control what goes

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Speaker 1: on in their environment and their culture, in their corporation,

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Speaker 1: Like this is their corporation, this is their culture, this

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Speaker 1: is their workplace, and what goes on is unacceptable, that

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Speaker 1: is a fact. But these women don't have to work there.

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Speaker 1: And when you sign up for this, you know what

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Speaker 1: you're signing up for. You know what you're signing up for.

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Speaker 1: At this stage of the game, you know what you're

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Speaker 1: signing up for, and the taste of fame just has

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Speaker 1: to be worth it. You're gonna take a beating, but

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Speaker 1: it's like feeling like ship on a hangover or probably

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Speaker 1: after doing drugs. You want that high again, so you

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Speaker 1: don't mind how shitty you're gonna feel when it's going bad,

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Speaker 1: when it's crashing, because it will crash, but you want

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Speaker 1: that high again. And that's the roller coaster that happens.

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Speaker 1: And that's these people that get degraded and fired and

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Speaker 1: they say they'll never do it again. Dorenda used to say,

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Speaker 1: when I leave, I'm walking out, I'm never walking back in.

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Speaker 1: I will never look back. I will never want to

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Speaker 1: do it again. She's had that pipe and she wants

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Speaker 1: another hit. It's just doesn't matter. And everybody says the

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Speaker 1: same stuff. I've heard everybody from Kyle to Jill to

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Speaker 1: least Bit. Everybody says they're leaving, they're not doing it.

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Speaker 1: This is really the time. Their friends must be like

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Speaker 1: I roll because they all say it. Everybody said it.

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Speaker 1: But they're not going to do it because they like

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Speaker 1: the hit and they're there because they want to be there,

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Speaker 1: and so they should be paid well because it's not

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Speaker 1: easy what they're doing. But as grown women who are

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Speaker 1: being exploited, they themselves have to know whether they what

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Speaker 1: the prices for themselves to exploit themselves. You know, Kyla

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Speaker 1: Maurso it's doing very well for their business. The agency

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Speaker 1: hats are on every piece of merchandise, so that's you know,

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Speaker 1: is that that's what that's and the fame. She's beautiful

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Speaker 1: and she has a platform, and so does Mauricio. Um,

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Speaker 1: everybody has it for a different reason. Everybody's doing it

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Speaker 1: for a different reason. And listen, you see these crazy

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Speaker 1: stories and there's a whole line of women knocking on

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Speaker 1: that door to come in. So you can blame the institution,

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Speaker 1: but you gotta also the women have to take accountability

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Speaker 1: on their own for why they're there. Everybody knows what

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Speaker 1: they signed up for. Everybody knows. When they sit down,

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Speaker 1: I'll watch it happens a live what you're signing up for?

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Speaker 1: How many clickbait things you're gonna be asked and said?

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Speaker 1: And it's just it's an a sure the beast, don't

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Speaker 1: hit the player, hit the game, or don't hit anybody,

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Speaker 1: and just watch, but just know h