WEBVTT - Off Record: Missing Husband 0:00:00.270 --> 0:00:02.590 Hey, it's Payshett. Wanted to let you know that the 0:00:02.650 --> 0:00:06.360 Exactly Right Store is having an end-of-summer sale. From September 0:00:06.580 --> 0:00:10.300 3rd through September 7th, use code SUMMERSALE to save up 0:00:10.340 --> 0:00:15.100 to 30% off storewide, including merch from The Knife. Spend 0:00:15.100 --> 0:00:16.340 $ 50 and save 20%, $ 75 and save 25%, or $ 100 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.030 and save 30%. Head to exactlyrightstore.com to shop. Some exclusions apply. 0:00:27.580 --> 0:00:32.140 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:49.860 Welcome to The Knife Off Record. I'm Hannah Smith. 0:00:50.180 --> 0:00:54.540 I'm Pasha Eaton. And Hannah, today I have a story 0:00:54.740 --> 0:00:58.860 for you that came from actually a call I was making, 0:00:59.180 --> 0:01:01.720 like so many of these do, for a different episode. 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.420 And I got in touch with a detective who had 0:01:04.470 --> 0:01:06.170 been working on the case I'm going to talk about. 0:01:06.370 --> 0:01:09.410 And he couldn't speak to me about it because everything 0:01:09.430 --> 0:01:13.850 was still pending. And it's no longer pending. I had 0:01:13.870 --> 0:01:14.790 a call with him and I'm going to. 0:01:14.790 --> 0:01:16.150 No longer pending. Yeah. 0:01:16.230 --> 0:01:17.710 So I'm going to be able to talk about the 0:01:17.990 --> 0:01:20.459 phone call, but we weren't able to schedule an interview. Okay. 0:01:21.620 --> 0:01:24.180 I was able to put this together with body cam 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:25.380 footage and court records. 0:01:25.459 --> 0:01:25.800 Wow. 0:01:26.140 --> 0:01:28.980 So news articles plus a call with the detective who 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.960 I think played an instrumental role in the case. Wow. 0:01:32.250 --> 0:01:35.910 It's so dark, but I think that it was really 0:01:35.930 --> 0:01:39.750 great police work. And I think this case is a 0:01:39.790 --> 0:01:42.850 really good lesson in trusting your instincts if you know 0:01:42.890 --> 0:01:43.709 something is wrong. 0:01:43.730 --> 0:01:44.350 Cool. 0:01:44.730 --> 0:01:47.089 Yeah. So I'll just get right into it then. Let's 0:01:47.110 --> 0:01:47.240 do it. 0:01:47.910 --> 0:01:50.790 And quick reminder that we do post updates on our 0:01:50.830 --> 0:01:53.190 social media accounts, so feel free to follow us on 0:01:53.250 --> 0:01:56.060 Instagram and Blue Sky at The Knife Podcast. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.200 So on May 12th, 2025, a call comes in to 0:02:01.420 --> 0:02:05.450 the non-emergency line at the Otero County Sheriff's Office saying, 0:02:05.860 --> 0:02:08.120 Otero County is in southern New Mexico. 0:02:08.139 --> 0:02:08.839 Okay. 0:02:08.980 --> 0:02:12.560 So it's a very rural area. And the man calling 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.880 is actually from Texas. He sounds very concerned and with 0:02:17.190 --> 0:02:20.750 a lot of urgency, but he also sounds really frustrated. 0:02:20.770 --> 0:02:23.710 I mean, he sounds like no one's been listening to him. 0:02:23.730 --> 0:02:25.510 I don't know if it was the first call he'd made, 0:02:25.550 --> 0:02:27.790 but it's pretty clear that he's been trying to reach 0:02:27.810 --> 0:02:29.130 someone and he can't reach them. 0:02:29.389 --> 0:02:32.209 And is he calling from Texas or he's a Texan 0:02:32.250 --> 0:02:32.850 who's in Texas? 0:02:33.810 --> 0:02:35.210 He's calling from Texas. 0:02:35.250 --> 0:02:35.590 Okay. 0:02:35.830 --> 0:02:39.650 And he asks the dispatcher, who can I talk to 0:02:39.850 --> 0:02:43.070 about a wellness check for someone who lives in Otero County? 0:02:43.310 --> 0:02:43.610 Okay. 0:02:43.910 --> 0:02:46.410 And the man he's interested in doing a wellness check 0:02:46.510 --> 0:02:50.130 on is Craig Thetford. And Craig is from the same 0:02:50.169 --> 0:02:53.990 town in Texas. He's from Breckenridge, Texas, but he's been 0:02:54.050 --> 0:02:57.880 living in Cloudcroft, New Mexico, with his wife, Dina. 0:02:58.190 --> 0:03:00.540 Where is Breckenridge? I've never heard of that town in Texas. 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.340 I think it's in West Texas. I think it's like 0:03:03.340 --> 0:03:05.579 90 minutes from Dallas, maybe. 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:06.220 Okay. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:07.750 Maybe two hours from Dallas. 0:03:07.990 --> 0:03:08.380 Gotcha. 0:03:08.470 --> 0:03:12.070 So this man is really concerned because... Craig has not 0:03:12.110 --> 0:03:16.350 been reachable to him for two months. He had been 0:03:16.410 --> 0:03:19.950 able to exchange some text messages with him, but that 0:03:19.970 --> 0:03:22.180 was it. And Craig was usually someone who was really 0:03:22.250 --> 0:03:24.139 easy to get on the phone. Now, this call that 0:03:24.180 --> 0:03:28.220 he's making for a wellness check is in mid-May 2025. 0:03:28.220 --> 0:03:31.290 And he hasn't had a text from Craig in two months. 0:03:31.870 --> 0:03:36.010 He's really concerned. And adding to his concern, really compounding 0:03:36.150 --> 0:03:40.730 his sort of frustration in my interpretation of his call, 0:03:41.010 --> 0:03:44.520 is that he also now can't reach Dina, Craig's wife. 0:03:45.260 --> 0:03:48.000 So he's really concerned. And the dispatcher's like, OK, we'll 0:03:48.020 --> 0:03:51.280 send someone out to the house. And he's happy with that. 0:03:51.300 --> 0:03:53.960 They get off the phone. Now, this 911 caller is 0:03:54.020 --> 0:03:57.800 actually Craig's longtime friend and business partner. So he knows 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:58.680 him really well. 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.840 Are they still business partners at the time or like retired? 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.220 Actually, Craig had retired. He had a roofing business and 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.920 it was really successful. The roofing business was in Texas, 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.440 where he's from. And he just decided to retire in 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.820 New Mexico. They just found a place they really loved 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.650 up in Cloudcroft. It's like a very rural place. tight-knit community, 0:04:18.670 --> 0:04:22.400 a mountain town. Sounds nice. Yeah. And they had been 0:04:22.460 --> 0:04:24.740 loving life up there. They lived in a three-story home. 0:04:24.779 --> 0:04:27.200 They had a lot of recreational vehicles, did a lot 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.540 of outdoorsy fun trips together. By all accounts, his life 0:04:31.580 --> 0:04:33.719 was going really well. Like he was really reaping the 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.200 benefits of a lot of hard work in his life. Okay. Yeah. 0:04:37.420 --> 0:04:40.460 So Craig and Dina had both been married before. They 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.710 both had children from earlier relationships and they met over 0:04:44.710 --> 0:04:47.520 10 years ago. They seem to really enjoy a lot 0:04:47.540 --> 0:04:51.620 of the same things, like being outdoors and hiking and fishing, 0:04:51.750 --> 0:04:54.250 all of those kinds of activities, maybe motorcycles. I saw 0:04:54.270 --> 0:04:55.850 some pictures of them with helmets on. I don't know 0:04:55.870 --> 0:04:58.050 if it was like ATVs or motorcycles, but that was 0:04:58.089 --> 0:05:00.990 like the vibe of the pictures on their Facebook page. 0:05:01.210 --> 0:05:05.210 And they look really happy. And so everyone's really confused. Like, 0:05:05.450 --> 0:05:07.310 why haven't we heard from Craig? Why haven't we heard 0:05:07.350 --> 0:05:09.980 from Dina? They're living in this little town by themselves. 0:05:10.270 --> 0:05:13.300 They're both from Texas. She's from Seymour or her family 0:05:13.339 --> 0:05:13.740 lives there. 0:05:14.370 --> 0:05:17.310 And I'm guessing their kids don't live in that same area. 0:05:17.370 --> 0:05:21.150 It's just them. It's just this like post-retirement chapter that 0:05:21.170 --> 0:05:21.860 they've started. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.080 It sounds like they're like young and healthy for retirees, 0:05:25.140 --> 0:05:28.560 still active, living their lives. There was no medical reason 0:05:28.580 --> 0:05:31.670 why people should be concerned about them. Yeah. That we 0:05:31.710 --> 0:05:33.049 know of. Exactly. 0:05:33.270 --> 0:05:36.190 And Cloudcroft, like I mentioned, is a small town. And 0:05:36.230 --> 0:05:38.750 so people do notice when you're coming and going or 0:05:38.770 --> 0:05:40.710 if you're not there. A lot of people live there 0:05:40.750 --> 0:05:43.580 year round, even though it's, you know, maybe there's not 0:05:43.620 --> 0:05:45.820 like this booming economy. So you could have a second 0:05:45.860 --> 0:05:50.220 home there. But they're quick to notice police presence. And 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:51.979 so on the evening of May 12th, 2025, following this 0:05:51.980 --> 0:05:58.850 911 call, Two officers arrived at the mountainside home belonging 0:05:58.910 --> 0:06:01.610 to Craig Thetford and his wife, Dina. And watching the 0:06:01.690 --> 0:06:03.810 body cam footage, it's late in the evening. I think 0:06:03.870 --> 0:06:07.150 it's around 8 p.m. The sun is like mostly going down, 0:06:07.230 --> 0:06:11.430 but it's the summertime. And the police get out of 0:06:11.450 --> 0:06:14.969 the car. They immediately start announcing themselves sheriff's office sheriff's 0:06:15.029 --> 0:06:19.110 office no response most of the bottom level is the 0:06:19.170 --> 0:06:22.260 garage area and then there's like a back part that 0:06:22.300 --> 0:06:25.180 they'll go into later but their vehicles look like they're 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.590 in there there's some lights on at the house They 0:06:27.610 --> 0:06:30.130 look inside the window and see some boxes. So they're 0:06:30.150 --> 0:06:32.930 thinking maybe they went on a trip or maybe they're 0:06:32.950 --> 0:06:37.010 packing to move again. But nothing concerning. It's not like 0:06:37.029 --> 0:06:39.310 they're seeing a bunch of like blood on the wall, 0:06:39.670 --> 0:06:42.880 lamps knocked over. And these are adults like they can 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.870 come and go as they please. So. They knock on 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.970 the door. There's no answer. And it's rural, but you 0:06:49.990 --> 0:06:52.590 can still like walk to your neighbor's house. So that's 0:06:52.610 --> 0:06:54.810 what they do. They just decide, OK, we're going to 0:06:54.830 --> 0:06:56.890 walk to the nearest house and see if they can 0:06:56.910 --> 0:07:00.450 tell us anything. And something about Otero County is that 0:07:00.589 --> 0:07:03.420 only 10 percent of it is privately owned. So that's 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.279 how small it is. The rest of the county is 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.000 made up of sovereign tribal land, federal land, which is, 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.940 you know, military installations and state land. So the houses 0:07:12.180 --> 0:07:14.800 aren't squished together, but you know who lives around you. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.700 And so before this officer can even get to the 0:07:17.740 --> 0:07:19.850 front door of the neighbor's house, he's walking out to 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.930 greet him. And he knows why he's there. He's like, 0:07:23.090 --> 0:07:26.510 I'm really worried. He's like, I haven't seen or heard 0:07:26.550 --> 0:07:27.890 from Craig in a long time. 0:07:27.910 --> 0:07:29.010 Wow. 0:07:29.900 --> 0:07:32.720 Yeah, like, so now the officer, you can tell, is 0:07:32.740 --> 0:07:35.740 a little bit like, okay, well, tell me more. And 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.000 this guy says that he is actually a volunteer firefighter 0:07:39.060 --> 0:07:43.170 for the James Canyon Volunteer Fire Department. And when he 0:07:43.230 --> 0:07:46.550 stopped hearing from Craig, it was January of 2025. 0:07:46.550 --> 0:07:49.630 And had they been in contact regularly before that? 0:07:49.930 --> 0:07:52.710 All the time. He said they were great friends. Really? 0:07:52.730 --> 0:07:56.410 They were volunteer firefighters together, that they were super passionate 0:07:56.430 --> 0:07:57.270 about doing that. 0:07:57.900 --> 0:08:00.460 And in five months, he hadn't like... Hadn't heard from him. 0:08:01.020 --> 0:08:04.190 And hadn't thought to call the police or anything? Yeah, 0:08:04.390 --> 0:08:06.690 I wondered about that. But I also wonder if. 0:08:06.710 --> 0:08:09.930 It's like sort of a, you know, like it would 0:08:09.990 --> 0:08:12.030 suck to be wrong about that. And then it's like. 0:08:12.050 --> 0:08:14.590 Then you're invasive. You're being invasive in your neighbor's life. 0:08:14.770 --> 0:08:17.350 Yeah. And because they did travel a lot, I wonder 0:08:17.410 --> 0:08:19.440 if that played into it. Like, well, they go on 0:08:19.460 --> 0:08:21.260 a lot of trips and he doesn't need to tell 0:08:21.300 --> 0:08:25.200 me where he's going. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, he said that 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.070 they were in constant contact. They saw each other all 0:08:28.090 --> 0:08:30.990 the time on calls for the volunteer fire department and 0:08:31.190 --> 0:08:33.089 hung out a lot because they're neighbors and then just 0:08:33.190 --> 0:08:36.510 nothing except for a few text messages. And he's like, 0:08:36.550 --> 0:08:39.990 but he wouldn't get on the phone. So the texts 0:08:40.429 --> 0:08:41.910 kind of fizzle out anyway. 0:08:42.050 --> 0:08:42.840 Had he seen Dina? 0:08:43.340 --> 0:08:45.780 He had seen Dina a little bit, but she didn't 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.650 seem like she was acting abnormally at all. So the 0:08:49.670 --> 0:08:52.319 sheriff's office is just sort of like they're taking some notes. 0:08:52.340 --> 0:08:55.199 This is all on body cam. And this neighbor says 0:08:55.300 --> 0:08:58.359 that actually Craig had been sick briefly in January and 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.440 that he had been sick as well. So maybe something's 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.110 going around. And that was kind of the last time 0:09:03.179 --> 0:09:04.950 they saw each other. It's like they were both sick 0:09:05.370 --> 0:09:07.150 out and then just didn't see each other again. So. 0:09:08.809 --> 0:09:11.050 Craig and Dina did live in Cloudcroft year-round, but like 0:09:11.090 --> 0:09:13.890 I said, they traveled a lot. So the officers are 0:09:13.910 --> 0:09:15.790 taking all of this with a grain of salt. They 0:09:15.830 --> 0:09:19.870 continue down the road to talk to another neighbor. And 0:09:20.270 --> 0:09:22.770 just like the last one, these people are very nervous. 0:09:23.250 --> 0:09:25.990 These neighbors are actually a little more forward with their concerns. 0:09:26.010 --> 0:09:29.310 They're like, something weird is going on over there. We 0:09:29.350 --> 0:09:32.320 don't know what. We haven't seen Craig. We haven't heard 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.280 from Craig. And they also say that Dina has been 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.220 at the house as recently as three weeks ago. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:39.300 Interesting. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.219 Interesting. Craig, they haven't seen or heard from him, at 0:09:42.260 --> 0:09:45.820 least verifiably, since January. Dina's been at the house as 0:09:45.900 --> 0:09:47.020 recently as mid-April. 0:09:47.380 --> 0:09:48.610 Did they talk with Dina? 0:09:48.990 --> 0:09:50.890 Yeah, and they said that she just, you know, would 0:09:50.910 --> 0:09:53.429 kind of come and go and wave and she's friendly. 0:09:53.510 --> 0:09:58.990 But that was that. So officers try to call Dina, 0:09:59.290 --> 0:10:02.490 get some information. and they're unable to reach her. But 0:10:02.610 --> 0:10:04.689 you can tell that the officers who are talking to 0:10:04.730 --> 0:10:07.880 the neighbors are like, OK, this is not good. It's 0:10:07.910 --> 0:10:12.520 not going somewhere good. And they finally get another call 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.699 where they're able to learn a little bit more about 0:10:14.740 --> 0:10:19.189 Dina and what's going on. And it's from Craig's grandson. Now, 0:10:19.309 --> 0:10:22.290 separate from Craig's longtime business partner and friend who made 0:10:22.309 --> 0:10:28.730 that initial call, Craig's grandson calls. And he's like, my grandfather, Craig, 0:10:28.929 --> 0:10:31.750 did not call his mother on Mother's Day. And that's 0:10:31.790 --> 0:10:35.600 how we know something is wrong. And he's like, he 0:10:35.620 --> 0:10:38.300 would never, ever do that. Okay. 0:10:38.500 --> 0:10:38.760 Yeah. 0:10:39.140 --> 0:10:42.160 And so the whole family now back in Texas is like, 0:10:42.420 --> 0:10:44.880 what is going on? But they can't reach Dina. She's 0:10:44.940 --> 0:10:46.810 pretty much stopped communicating with them. Wow. 0:10:47.870 --> 0:10:48.150 Yeah. 0:10:48.590 --> 0:10:52.690 Except for Dina did go visit Craig's mother on Mother's Day. 0:10:53.010 --> 0:10:55.690 So they're like, what is happening here? Where is Craig? 0:10:55.710 --> 0:10:57.410 Because they didn't know she's going over there. They would 0:10:57.429 --> 0:11:00.300 all be like, what's going on with Craig? So weird. 0:11:00.820 --> 0:11:03.880 So Dina ends up calling the sheriff's department back and 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:06.980 they're like, yeah, we're just, you know, people are a 0:11:06.980 --> 0:11:09.300 little worried about Craig. Do you know anything? And she's like, well, 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.160 not really. We're separated. He met someone. 0:11:12.740 --> 0:11:13.220 Wow. 0:11:13.780 --> 0:11:17.080 Yeah. And she's like, you know, those boxes, he's packing 0:11:17.140 --> 0:11:21.110 up and leaving. And they're like, okay, well, where is he? 0:11:21.660 --> 0:11:27.450 And she said that he was in Mexico. And they're like, oh, well, 0:11:27.490 --> 0:11:29.010 what was he doing there? And she said he was 0:11:29.130 --> 0:11:32.930 trophy fishing and that he was out with all these other, 0:11:33.630 --> 0:11:38.309 she said youngsters, like multiple young women. Oh, okay. Yeah. 0:11:39.070 --> 0:11:41.890 He's fishing with young women. Right. 0:11:41.929 --> 0:11:44.470 You know, young women, they love to fish. They love 0:11:44.490 --> 0:11:47.840 to fish. Yeah. And so this callback from Dina is 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.540 not reassuring, but, you know, what else can they say? 0:11:50.580 --> 0:11:54.220 These people are going through a divorce. So Dina agrees, like, yeah, 0:11:54.300 --> 0:11:55.920 it's weird that he hasn't been in touch, but I 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.540 don't know what to tell you because I can't reach 0:11:57.580 --> 0:12:00.430 him either. So listening to this phone call, I'm like, 0:12:01.030 --> 0:12:05.970 if I'm Dina in that moment, I'm irritated. I'm like, OK, 0:12:06.110 --> 0:12:08.849 you're leaving me. You're with these other women. You're out 0:12:08.870 --> 0:12:11.569 in Mexico. But can you just put your family's worries 0:12:11.610 --> 0:12:14.010 to rest and call them? Like, what's that have to 0:12:14.050 --> 0:12:14.570 do with us? 0:12:14.670 --> 0:12:15.150 Right. Right. 0:12:15.230 --> 0:12:17.250 Because now I have this like thorn in my side 0:12:17.290 --> 0:12:20.030 of investigators showing up wondering where you are. Yeah. And 0:12:20.050 --> 0:12:21.780 I have to air all of our dirty laundry to 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:23.060 the sheriff's office. Totally. 0:12:23.100 --> 0:12:25.040 I'm dealing with enough here. Now I'm having to deal 0:12:25.059 --> 0:12:25.740 with all of this. 0:12:25.860 --> 0:12:28.140 Yeah. But there's none of that. She doesn't ask. You know, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:29.700 they're like, we're going to have to report him missing. 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.940 She says, well, I don't think he's missing. I think 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.880 he's in Mexico. And they're like, well, we can't reach him. 0:12:34.100 --> 0:12:35.559 This whole thing sounds suspicious. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:36.679 Very suspicious. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.520 And the fact that he's in Mexico, sort of conveniently 0:12:39.620 --> 0:12:40.740 out of the country. 0:12:40.940 --> 0:12:43.800 A little harder to get to. It's very vague. Like, okay, Mexico. 0:12:43.860 --> 0:12:44.400 Could be true. 0:12:44.420 --> 0:12:44.500 Yeah. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.500 But like, yeah. Raises some red flags. 0:12:48.179 --> 0:12:52.810 Definitely raises red flags. So the officer gets this story 0:12:52.870 --> 0:12:55.609 from Dina and she's like, I know he's in Mexico 0:12:55.630 --> 0:12:57.050 because he's using our credit cards. 0:12:57.850 --> 0:12:58.370 Oh, OK. 0:12:58.510 --> 0:13:00.929 And he's like, oh, OK, well, that could be that's 0:13:00.970 --> 0:13:04.689 like maybe the first moment of maybe he is in Mexico. Yeah. 0:13:04.730 --> 0:13:06.750 She can see what he's spending money on. But she 0:13:06.770 --> 0:13:08.990 said she last saw him a couple of weeks earlier. 0:13:09.130 --> 0:13:12.320 So that would be early May, late April, which is 0:13:12.500 --> 0:13:14.880 a very different timeline from the neighbors. And she said 0:13:14.900 --> 0:13:16.880 he came to the house in Cloudcroft to pack up 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:24.980 his things and then he was leaving again. So the 0:13:25.020 --> 0:13:26.679 officer is like, well, what was he wearing the last 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.670 time you saw him? And she said he was wearing 0:13:29.050 --> 0:13:31.210 a big dog shirt. I don't know what that is. 0:13:31.230 --> 0:13:32.790 Is that a brand? 0:13:33.050 --> 0:13:35.099 She didn't go into detail, but some sort of like 0:13:35.420 --> 0:13:36.459 big dog shirt. 0:13:36.540 --> 0:13:39.099 Big dog? Wait, I gotta look this up real quick. 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.900 I mean, it does look like there's a clothing brand 0:13:42.940 --> 0:13:44.360 called BigDogs.com. 0:13:44.860 --> 0:13:45.580 Okay, wow. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.520 I don't know if this is really it. It's like 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.770 t-shirts with pictures of large dogs on them. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.710 I mean, it may have been the only morsel of 0:13:54.790 --> 0:14:01.280 truth that she tells officers this entire time. So... Dina 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.679 hangs up on the officer. She gets kind of irritated. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.340 And I don't know if she like outwardly is like, 0:14:07.500 --> 0:14:09.870 I'm done with this conversation. But she hangs up. He 0:14:09.890 --> 0:14:13.589 calls back. She doesn't answer. Now, that conversation with Dina 0:14:13.610 --> 0:14:16.829 took place three days after that initial wellness check. 0:14:17.610 --> 0:14:18.090 And then the. 0:14:18.010 --> 0:14:22.770 Sheriff's office does something really smart. They call in Deputy 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.420 Roger Schoolcraft. And this is the person that I spoke 0:14:25.460 --> 0:14:28.800 with briefly before this all had come to be resolved. 0:14:29.260 --> 0:14:31.450 But Dina's back in town. A neighbor tips them off. 0:14:31.490 --> 0:14:33.990 Dina's back from Texas. She'd been in Seymour with her mom. 0:14:34.450 --> 0:14:37.610 And so he goes over to the house. And Roger 0:14:37.630 --> 0:14:40.430 on the body cam footage, I mean, he just sounds 0:14:40.810 --> 0:14:47.480 so disarming and unassuming and like approachable. It's a small town. 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.560 Dina's like, I recognize you. We met at a football game. 0:14:50.620 --> 0:14:53.800 And Roger's like, oh, that sounds right. And he's like, 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.520 you know, can we sit down for a second? First 0:14:56.540 --> 0:14:58.510 of all, she answers the door like wrapped in a blanket. 0:14:59.010 --> 0:15:02.870 she just seems ultra relaxed. And she's, you know, she's 0:15:02.890 --> 0:15:05.210 not done up or anything. She's like, yeah, come on in. 0:15:05.850 --> 0:15:08.970 They sit down and Roger's just kind of asking her 0:15:09.030 --> 0:15:12.530 the same questions this initial officer did on this phone call. 0:15:13.130 --> 0:15:16.940 And she's just talking and talking and talking. It's like 0:15:17.460 --> 0:15:22.300 she had no concern, you can tell, during this conversation 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.120 that anyone suspected anything. And he's just letting her talk. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.830 Does he suspect that she's involved in something at this point? 0:15:31.010 --> 0:15:33.170 Well, I don't know if he did when he initially 0:15:33.210 --> 0:15:36.390 went to the house, but it doesn't take long for 0:15:36.530 --> 0:15:40.070 her story to start not making sense with what she 0:15:40.130 --> 0:15:41.410 previously told people. 0:15:41.430 --> 0:15:42.380 Okay. 0:15:42.530 --> 0:15:45.280 You know, she had mentioned that she last saw him 0:15:45.900 --> 0:15:48.000 three weeks ago. Right. Which would be, I guess, the 0:15:48.060 --> 0:15:48.740 end of April. 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.739 Because he came back to the house to pack up 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:51.620 all of his things. 0:15:51.700 --> 0:15:53.700 Yeah. And she gives a date that's like a week 0:15:53.820 --> 0:15:54.280 after that. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:55.100 Interesting. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.760 And so Roger does something that's like It's so smooth 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.450 the way he does it in this conversation. He's like, well, 0:16:04.470 --> 0:16:06.890 a little bit about me is I was actually retired 0:16:06.930 --> 0:16:09.590 for a couple of years and I just got so, 0:16:09.950 --> 0:16:12.530 you know, stir crazy. I decided to come back to work. 0:16:12.850 --> 0:16:16.490 And I used to be a homicide detective in Albuquerque 0:16:16.970 --> 0:16:19.109 and just sort of leaves it hanging. And she just 0:16:19.150 --> 0:16:22.020 kind of looks at him like, oh, OK. So there's 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.400 a homicide detective sitting in her living room like she 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:24.840 knows now. 0:16:25.430 --> 0:16:27.550 Does her demeanor change at that point? 0:16:27.790 --> 0:16:29.930 She kind of takes a breath and goes right back 0:16:30.010 --> 0:16:34.220 into like cool, calm, collected. But because like I know 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.320 what I'm watching, it's like you can see it on 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.800 her face that she's a little bit like, oh, this 0:16:38.940 --> 0:16:39.820 is not good for me. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:40.460 Right. 0:16:41.060 --> 0:16:43.400 But she just keeps talking and he asks her some 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.430 questions like, how long have you guys been together? It's, 0:16:46.530 --> 0:16:49.450 you know, well over 10 years they've been together. She 0:16:49.490 --> 0:16:53.210 also tells Roger that Craig is her fourth husband. Okay. 0:16:53.990 --> 0:16:57.270 And she said something interesting in that conversation. She's like, oh, 0:16:57.310 --> 0:16:59.330 I just make a joke of it, but I eventually 0:16:59.370 --> 0:17:03.270 realized I'm the common denominator. So he's just like, oh, yeah, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.700 like laughing it off. And he just starts talking about 0:17:05.740 --> 0:17:08.659 his police work and kind of like, okay, I'm going 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.139 to mirror her and like share because she's sharing and 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.740 really make her feel comfortable. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.260 So this is body cam footage that you've watched? 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:16.240 Yeah. Okay. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:17.690 And what does she look like? 0:17:18.190 --> 0:17:24.240 She is petite, blonde, very blonde, and... She just looks like, 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.420 you know, your average, like, youngish grandma. 0:17:28.859 --> 0:17:29.100 Yeah. 0:17:29.619 --> 0:17:34.320 And she seems very approachable and charismatic. 0:17:34.540 --> 0:17:37.570 Yeah. I mean, when I hear that she's from West Texas, 0:17:37.630 --> 0:17:39.610 I'm like, yeah, of course she's like, come on in, 0:17:39.630 --> 0:17:42.090 and like chatting with him and very friendly. That feels 0:17:42.210 --> 0:17:46.449 very culturally aligned with West Texas. 0:17:46.470 --> 0:17:48.370 She offered him coffee. She's like, I was just about 0:17:48.390 --> 0:17:50.290 to make some coffee, and Roger's like, I would love 0:17:50.330 --> 0:17:50.910 some coffee. 0:17:50.930 --> 0:17:51.360 Yeah. Yeah. 0:17:52.250 --> 0:17:55.700 And by all accounts, like she was someone people liked 0:17:55.820 --> 0:17:58.340 to be around until they got to know her. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:17:59.340 Oh, really? 0:17:59.500 --> 0:18:04.940 Yeah. So Roger immediately clocks some inconsistencies in the timeline 0:18:04.980 --> 0:18:09.050 that she's giving him. He then is like, well, how 0:18:09.090 --> 0:18:10.810 are you paying for things? Because she's like, I don't 0:18:10.850 --> 0:18:13.390 have access to the money. He kept all the money 0:18:14.010 --> 0:18:16.830 in a safe and it's all cash. Then she mentions 0:18:16.850 --> 0:18:19.900 that she is paying the utility bills online. So it's like, OK, 0:18:19.940 --> 0:18:22.659 so you do have access to accounts. but you don't 0:18:22.700 --> 0:18:25.429 have access to this safe. The timeline you're giving me 0:18:25.470 --> 0:18:29.429 is a little off. So he's just not buying it. 0:18:29.530 --> 0:18:33.230 But still, they don't really have enough to say, we're 0:18:33.250 --> 0:18:35.689 going to take you down to the station. At this point, 0:18:35.730 --> 0:18:37.670 it's still way better for them to just keep building 0:18:37.710 --> 0:18:40.490 this relationship and this rapport and try to get information. 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.920 And then Dina brings over something that she clearly thinks 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.280 is like... Her, I don't know what the right word is, 0:18:47.540 --> 0:18:51.260 almost like an alibi or something. She brings over a whiteboard. Okay. 0:18:51.380 --> 0:18:53.380 And she's like, this is where we would leave notes 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.060 for each other to communicate. And on the whiteboard and 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.399 scratchy handwriting, it's like, I'm in El Salto. Maybe we 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.400 can talk when I get back. And that's, you know, 0:19:01.660 --> 0:19:04.399 the place where she says he's fishing in Mexico. And 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.659 she's like, your family's really worried about you. And the 0:19:06.700 --> 0:19:09.379 handwriting is really different. And he's like, so that's Craig 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.909 and that's you. And she's like, mm-hmm, yep. And he's like, OK. 0:19:13.150 --> 0:19:15.480 You know, he's like, well, it's just a whiteboard. But 0:19:15.580 --> 0:19:18.100 I thought it was funny, too, because she goes up 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.480 and gets the whiteboard off the wall and brings it 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.460 to him. And I know that a little whiteboard isn't 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.570 it's not like a heavy, cumbersome thing to do. But 0:19:26.590 --> 0:19:29.750 if I would just think you'd bring someone to a whiteboard. 0:19:30.190 --> 0:19:32.689 Yeah. It's very clearly like, look at this evidence. 0:19:33.070 --> 0:19:36.040 Yeah. It's like, let me present this to you. And, 0:19:36.150 --> 0:19:38.080 you know, you get the sense looking back, Roger probably 0:19:38.100 --> 0:19:41.460 feels the same way. So now we know that neighbors 0:19:41.500 --> 0:19:45.010 haven't seen or heard from Craig since January. And also 0:19:45.310 --> 0:19:47.510 Dina said he left that message on the whiteboard on 0:19:47.550 --> 0:19:50.719 March 28th. But then she had also said maybe he 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.080 was there a few weeks ago getting more clothing. So 0:19:54.619 --> 0:19:59.420 nothing is adding up. And Roger now knows, well, she's 0:19:59.460 --> 0:20:02.310 on her fourth husband. We should probably find out why. 0:20:02.330 --> 0:20:05.750 Do they look into the three other husbands and make 0:20:05.770 --> 0:20:08.790 sure that they're you know, alive and well and driving. 0:20:09.130 --> 0:20:10.310 And they are all alive. 0:20:10.330 --> 0:20:10.890 Okay, great. 0:20:11.210 --> 0:20:13.090 But it sounds like narrowly. 0:20:13.570 --> 0:20:14.290 What? Yeah. 0:20:15.210 --> 0:20:17.310 One said that she tried to stab him with a 0:20:17.350 --> 0:20:20.399 kitchen knife. Another one said that she tried to run 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.140 him over with a car. Another one said that she 0:20:23.180 --> 0:20:25.740 tried to shoot him, but the gun wasn't loaded. It 0:20:25.900 --> 0:20:28.040 was his gun in the nightstand. He's like, I never 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:29.399 kept it loaded because I didn't trust her. 0:20:29.420 --> 0:20:29.659 Oh, my gosh. 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.620 And apparently she is extremely volatile and violent when she's drinking. 0:20:35.990 --> 0:20:37.159 which is often. 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:37.980 Wow. 0:20:38.660 --> 0:20:42.440 Yeah. And so before Roger leaves that day, she's also said, well, 0:20:42.460 --> 0:20:44.580 those boxes, that was him packing up all of his 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.830 clothes because he's moving out because we're separating. She's talking about, 0:20:47.850 --> 0:20:49.690 I want to get the house. I'm going to ask 0:20:49.710 --> 0:20:52.230 him for the house. So kind of making it sound 0:20:52.270 --> 0:20:54.890 like That's maybe why he's avoiding me is because he's 0:20:54.930 --> 0:20:56.729 avoiding this process because he knows he's going to have 0:20:56.770 --> 0:20:57.629 to give some stuff up. 0:20:57.790 --> 0:20:58.109 Okay. 0:20:58.490 --> 0:21:01.320 Which, you know, I've never been through a divorce, but, like, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.660 we've all heard that story a million times. Like, some 0:21:03.700 --> 0:21:06.959 people drag these things out because they're unpleasant and they 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.139 can or whatever. Then she says, can I say something 0:21:10.300 --> 0:21:13.580 off the record? Which, like, if you're talking to a 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.760 cop about your missing husband, like, it's. 0:21:16.609 --> 0:21:17.850 Not off the record. This is not a reporter. 0:21:17.970 --> 0:21:19.350 But he's like, yes, yes, you can. 0:21:19.369 --> 0:21:20.510 And so. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.750 She's like, there's a bunch of cash in our safe 0:21:23.810 --> 0:21:25.869 because he doesn't like to keep money in the bank. 0:21:26.230 --> 0:21:29.250 I don't have the code, but I don't know if 0:21:29.290 --> 0:21:32.990 that's something you guys are looking into because he's missing, 0:21:33.030 --> 0:21:35.649 if he took all this cash or not. And he's like, 0:21:35.910 --> 0:21:37.950 you don't have the code anywhere? And she's like, no. 0:21:38.020 --> 0:21:39.939 And Roger's like, well, I don't know that we can 0:21:39.980 --> 0:21:41.820 get into that today, but I can make a note 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:43.460 of it. But of course, he's like, we need to 0:21:43.500 --> 0:21:45.919 get into the safe. But he does ask her to 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.619 show him the safe. And they walk downstairs and it's 0:21:49.660 --> 0:21:53.280 this big, big it's a very serious safe I think 0:21:53.340 --> 0:21:55.080 Roger said it would be an act of God to 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.619 break into it okay there's a hot tub next to 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.379 it and she's like oh Craig got me that as 0:21:59.420 --> 0:22:00.859 a present but now I don't know if I'll get 0:22:00.900 --> 0:22:03.700 to keep it and he's like you know these people 0:22:03.740 --> 0:22:06.450 have some money like they're enjoying their life this isn't 0:22:06.510 --> 0:22:10.850 making sense so Roger leaves keeps digging talks to the 0:22:10.970 --> 0:22:15.850 ex-husbands and then learns through their investigation that she's been 0:22:15.930 --> 0:22:18.940 spending a lot of money and she's been spending cash. 0:22:19.420 --> 0:22:21.379 And one of the things she bought was a house 0:22:21.460 --> 0:22:24.540 in Texas where she's from in Seymour. She also bought 0:22:24.619 --> 0:22:27.580 a blue Mustang and she's paying cash. So where is 0:22:27.619 --> 0:22:29.139 it coming from if you don't have the code to 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.470 the safe? So five days later, Roger goes back to 0:22:33.490 --> 0:22:38.310 the house again. Dina's still there. And when he walks up, because, 0:22:38.330 --> 0:22:40.130 you know, his body cam is recording from the moment 0:22:40.170 --> 0:22:43.090 he gets out of the car. He turns, and you 0:22:43.130 --> 0:22:46.010 can see he's looking at, I mean, what's it called? 0:22:46.050 --> 0:22:49.030 I'm just hearing that blippy excavator song. It looks like 0:22:49.070 --> 0:22:51.230 a tractor with a scooper on it. Is that an excavator? 0:22:51.790 --> 0:22:54.610 But it's like, okay, you're trying to dig a big 0:22:54.670 --> 0:22:57.990 hole in the ground. Like, this is a piece of 0:22:58.030 --> 0:23:01.080 equipment that she would have had to rent somewhere. And 0:23:01.170 --> 0:23:03.260 she is, in fact, digging a big hole in the ground. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:05.800 She's not physically on it in that moment, but there's, 0:23:05.820 --> 0:23:07.680 you can see, a hole in progress. 0:23:07.700 --> 0:23:09.180 In the front yard? In the backyard? 0:23:09.220 --> 0:23:11.800 In the front yard, next to a shed. And so 0:23:12.020 --> 0:23:14.860 Roger goes in and just to keep it light, he's like, 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.220 so what are you burying? What are you putting in 0:23:17.260 --> 0:23:20.440 the ground? And she's like, oh, nothing. I'm going to 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:22.359 put rocks down and then it's going to be a 0:23:22.460 --> 0:23:26.399 gardening bed. And he's like, okay. But like you're, you know, 0:23:26.420 --> 0:23:28.280 in the process of a divorce, you don't know who's 0:23:28.300 --> 0:23:29.820 going to get this house. Like what? 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:30.399 Wow. 0:23:31.060 --> 0:23:34.220 Yeah. And so in regards to the safe, they now 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.580 know she's spending a lot of money, but they don't 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.380 know where she's getting it because she said she can't 0:23:38.460 --> 0:23:42.209 access the safe. And They're continuing to have conversations with 0:23:42.260 --> 0:23:45.500 the neighbors. And the neighbor who was a volunteer firefighter 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.679 with Craig said that Craig knew it was a dangerous job. 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:52.720 And he mentioned at one point that he had a 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:54.760 lot of cash stored so that Dina would have it 0:23:55.060 --> 0:23:57.060 and she had access to it if anything ever happened 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:57.300 to him. 0:23:57.900 --> 0:23:58.260 Okay. 0:23:58.420 --> 0:24:01.989 So directly contradicting. She can get into that safe. She 0:24:02.010 --> 0:24:05.470 can get into the safe. Another neighbor says that Dina 0:24:05.510 --> 0:24:09.140 and Craig had explosive fights, especially if Dina was drinking. 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.900 You know, we know that her ex-husbands don't have nice 0:24:12.940 --> 0:24:15.950 things to say about her. It's just, it's not looking good. 0:24:16.070 --> 0:24:16.350 Yeah. 0:24:16.630 --> 0:24:21.840 But the real bombshell comes from Dina's own close family 0:24:21.900 --> 0:24:26.200 member who calls in two crime stoppers with really damning information. 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:31.300 She tells the story of a Dina who is abusive 0:24:31.460 --> 0:24:34.800 to her children. Oof. And said that Dina told her 0:24:34.820 --> 0:24:37.379 that she got into a fight with Craig. This was 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.040 Dina's story. We don't know what happened. She said Craig 0:24:40.100 --> 0:24:42.330 pushed her down the stairs and so Dina shot him 0:24:42.510 --> 0:24:46.159 three times. and then moved his body from their home 0:24:46.260 --> 0:24:50.320 to the carport. And then shortly after that, another friend 0:24:50.380 --> 0:24:53.800 of Dina's, a longtime friend back in Texas, calls and 0:24:53.820 --> 0:24:56.080 says the same thing. So she's now said the same 0:24:56.140 --> 0:24:57.290 story to two people. 0:25:03.190 --> 0:25:06.330 So she's told people, I shot him, I killed him, 0:25:06.350 --> 0:25:10.490 I moved his body. To the carport. The carport is 0:25:10.510 --> 0:25:11.250 like an open. 0:25:11.270 --> 0:25:16.130 Theirs is like, it's closed. I don't know. It's like 0:25:16.170 --> 0:25:18.859 a big work garage, but they're calling it the carport. 0:25:19.490 --> 0:25:23.179 And in that very first call, when officers arrived at 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:25.800 the house for the wellness check, one of them notes 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:30.800 a strange smell. Okay. But there's wildlife everywhere. Right. They 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:31.600 don't know what the smell is. 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:33.060 And it had been a long time. 0:25:33.140 --> 0:25:34.720 Had been a long time. Yeah. 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:38.100 When did she reveal this to two people in her life? 0:25:38.770 --> 0:25:41.770 I'm guessing it happened in the spring because no one 0:25:41.810 --> 0:25:46.430 had heard from Craig since January. And in both instances, 0:25:46.670 --> 0:25:49.359 I suspect she'd been drinking when she was talking about it. 0:25:49.630 --> 0:25:53.360 Okay. But then maybe they weren't sure if she was 0:25:54.340 --> 0:25:57.100 telling the truth because they waited a few months to call. 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:00.560 Yeah. Like, I think there was also a fear of 0:26:00.619 --> 0:26:02.440 her and wronging her. 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:07.119 Also, it sounds like she's this little lady and she moved... 0:26:07.859 --> 0:26:09.460 A dead body? 0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:11.480 She told them that she rolled it up in a 0:26:11.540 --> 0:26:15.720 carpet and drug it across to the carport. Yeah. And 0:26:16.060 --> 0:26:18.770 so it's a good question, right? Because if someone tells 0:26:18.790 --> 0:26:20.180 me that story, and I know they have a history 0:26:20.220 --> 0:26:22.609 of violence and drinking, why am I waiting to call? 0:26:23.410 --> 0:26:26.830 But people like that can also have probably conditioned you 0:26:26.850 --> 0:26:30.250 to be scared of them. And so it's just hard 0:26:30.270 --> 0:26:33.270 to say what anyone would do in that situation. Because 0:26:33.310 --> 0:26:35.750 if you're wrong, then you've really angered someone who you 0:26:35.770 --> 0:26:36.930 think is dangerous. Yeah. 0:26:37.740 --> 0:26:40.179 And they're your family member. You're going to see them. 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:41.180 They know where you live. 0:26:41.540 --> 0:26:44.320 Yeah. And I'm not using this person's name because I 0:26:44.340 --> 0:26:46.990 know they made the tip anonymously to Crimestoppers, but their 0:26:47.030 --> 0:26:51.010 name is now everywhere. And their relationship to her is 0:26:51.050 --> 0:26:54.170 now everywhere. Yeah. Same with this friend of hers. And 0:26:54.930 --> 0:26:56.230 I just, I don't know how to feel about that. 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:59.780 It's like, we'll get more into it, but... So investigators, 0:27:00.210 --> 0:27:02.720 their suspicions are all but confirmed. Like, Dina has done 0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:05.520 something to Craig, and she's not telling us the full 0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:08.480 story here. But they don't have anything to charge her 0:27:08.500 --> 0:27:10.619 with yet because they haven't found Craig. 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:12.760 Nobody. Nobody. No crime. 0:27:12.900 --> 0:27:16.560 Right. And so they could charge her theoretically and try 0:27:16.580 --> 0:27:19.000 to make a case out of it. But, you know, 0:27:19.220 --> 0:27:21.420 here's a guy who keeps a lot of money in cash. 0:27:22.220 --> 0:27:24.620 He could probably just disappear if he wants to. 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:29.000 Yeah, there's another version of this story where she's... been 0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.240 volatile and he's finally had enough and he does peace 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:34.239 out and go to Mexico and is like, I don't 0:27:34.260 --> 0:27:35.760 want to talk to you or be around you. 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:37.080 Right. Like you're scary. 0:27:37.100 --> 0:27:37.399 Yeah. 0:27:37.420 --> 0:27:38.740 I mean, think about all the things she did to 0:27:38.780 --> 0:27:41.340 her exes. Like what must she have done to him? 0:27:41.820 --> 0:27:45.360 So yeah, it's not like this impossible theory, even though 0:27:45.380 --> 0:27:48.540 it didn't fit his character at all to go out 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.879 of contact with people. Right. So things then take another 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:55.760 turn because Dina goes back to Texas where she's staying 0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:57.830 with her mother and she attempts to end her life. 0:27:58.390 --> 0:27:59.450 Oh, my gosh. Yeah. 0:27:59.530 --> 0:28:02.020 And so they're like, we need to charge her because 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.580 if she does end up dying, like, we may never 0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:05.780 find out what happened. Yeah. 0:28:06.140 --> 0:28:08.420 And we need to get into the carport. They haven't 0:28:08.460 --> 0:28:09.560 searched the carport yet? 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:11.790 No, it's locked up and they want to do it 0:28:11.830 --> 0:28:13.810 the right way so they can use everything. So they're 0:28:13.830 --> 0:28:14.710 trying to get a search warrant. 0:28:14.850 --> 0:28:15.090 Okay. 0:28:15.590 --> 0:28:17.770 Well, this makes it so time is really of the 0:28:17.850 --> 0:28:21.270 essence and they get the search warrant. He's in the carport. 0:28:21.990 --> 0:28:24.340 The remains are in the carport. Oh. He's covered in 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:29.020 a tarp and like mothballs. And she clearly had plans 0:28:29.100 --> 0:28:32.140 to do something else with his remains. But I mean, 0:28:32.180 --> 0:28:32.760 for months. 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:33.460 That's horrible. 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:38.050 That's horrible to think about. It's actually like so bizarre, too, 0:28:38.090 --> 0:28:40.670 because just sleeping in the house alone in the woods, 0:28:40.810 --> 0:28:43.660 I'm like. Yeah, I'm an adult. I don't lay awake 0:28:43.700 --> 0:28:47.140 at night worried about ghosts. But like, come on, are 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:49.940 you not scared of anything? There's a body in your 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.680 carport and you're just going to sleep at night? Like, 0:28:52.750 --> 0:28:54.910 that's just so scary and strange. 0:28:55.090 --> 0:28:56.890 It seems like she probably thought it was safer to 0:28:56.930 --> 0:29:01.030 just leave his body there. But then once the detective 0:29:01.050 --> 0:29:03.490 started to come around, she immediately went out and rented 0:29:03.550 --> 0:29:07.520 this industrial digger and started digging up the backyard or 0:29:07.580 --> 0:29:12.610 front yard, which is Quite brazen. Yeah. Such bad planning. Yeah. 0:29:13.450 --> 0:29:16.570 Very confident person to do that. I mean, police are 0:29:16.610 --> 0:29:21.890 regularly visiting her house. Yeah. Like, what? And so once 0:29:21.930 --> 0:29:24.560 they find Craig's remains, it's very clear he has been 0:29:24.630 --> 0:29:27.420 dead since January, which is the last time his friends 0:29:27.460 --> 0:29:30.080 and family had really verifiably seen or heard from him. 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:33.440 They are able to then break into the safe and 0:29:33.460 --> 0:29:36.950 they find $ 84, 000 in cash. They find guns and they 0:29:36.990 --> 0:29:38.750 find a lot of cleaning supplies. 0:29:39.850 --> 0:29:39.969 So. 0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:43.000 They're pretty confident that this story that she told her 0:29:43.260 --> 0:29:46.680 friend and family member is probably some version of what 0:29:46.740 --> 0:29:52.380 actually happened. And through their forensic investigation with their finances, 0:29:52.500 --> 0:29:55.240 they determined that she spent $ 1. 5 million since January 2025 0:29:55.240 --> 0:30:03.360 to June. purchasing cars and homes. She told law enforcement 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:05.300 and family that he was in Mexico, but he actually 0:30:05.340 --> 0:30:07.790 hadn't gone to Mexico since 2023. 0:30:07.790 --> 0:30:10.990 Wow. So there had been much more money in that safe. 0:30:11.070 --> 0:30:13.510 She'd spent $ 1. 5 million of it. 0:30:13.730 --> 0:30:13.990 Yeah. 0:30:14.270 --> 0:30:14.990 Wow. Okay. 0:30:15.050 --> 0:30:19.060 Very quickly. And so Dina was, of course, then the 0:30:19.100 --> 0:30:23.360 person behind all these text messages to friends and family 0:30:23.420 --> 0:30:26.960 who thought they were communicating with Craig until months later 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:31.180 when they're like, something is up. And so she's arrested 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.720 and she pleads not guilty. She's like, I'm going to 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:37.200 get a lawyer and fight this. Well, she's arrested and 0:30:37.220 --> 0:30:41.460 booked in jail on July 8th, 2025. And it takes 0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:44.460 a year for her to decide, maybe I'm not going 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:47.320 to be able to fight this. And she ends up 0:30:47.420 --> 0:30:52.980 pleading guilty to second degree murder, tampering with evidence and forgery. 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.040 I saw two ages for her at the time, 60 0:30:56.040 --> 0:30:58.380 or 61 years old. And she was sentenced to 18 years. 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.220 Okay. So that was just recently that she got guilty. 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:27.460 And yeah, I think I agree. The more we work 0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:30.220 on these kinds of stories and learn about different sentences, 0:31:30.770 --> 0:31:32.610 it actually made me, I'm going to get back to 0:31:32.650 --> 0:31:35.890 the Craig Thetford case in a minute, but, or Dina 0:31:35.910 --> 0:31:38.830 Thetford case, but it made me think of Brian Barker, 0:31:39.550 --> 0:31:41.550 who I talked about a while ago, but he's that 0:31:41.650 --> 0:31:46.270 police officer who burglarized homes and businesses in Illinois, I 0:31:46.550 --> 0:31:48.989 think it was. He was sentenced to 40 years. Yeah. 0:31:50.710 --> 0:31:51.670 And no one got hurt. 0:31:51.950 --> 0:31:54.330 And no one got hurt. And he actually had a 0:31:54.390 --> 0:31:58.090 very traumatic life leading up to that, that, you know, 0:31:58.190 --> 0:32:00.520 I can't diagnose him, but I don't know. I think 0:32:00.580 --> 0:32:03.360 it's pretty clear that he was a troubled person who 0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:07.120 was conditioned to steal from people. 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.140 Which, like, doesn't always come into play when it comes 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.250 to sentencing, because You could argue that anyone that murders 0:32:13.290 --> 0:32:16.210 their spouse is a pretty troubled person who's had, you know, 0:32:16.250 --> 0:32:17.910 probably some trauma in their life, too. 0:32:18.090 --> 0:32:18.590 Totally. 0:32:18.710 --> 0:32:22.630 But, you know, you commit a crime and you gotta, like, 0:32:23.300 --> 0:32:26.940 serve time for it. But it's weird how varied those 0:32:26.980 --> 0:32:30.880 sentences can be. Like, she took a human life. And 0:32:31.300 --> 0:32:32.320 Brian Barker didn't. 0:32:32.700 --> 0:32:35.280 He stole things and he stole money, but he did 0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:36.520 not kill someone. 0:32:36.660 --> 0:32:36.900 Yeah. 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:40.480 And he's serving 40 years where she's got 18. 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:43.340 Yeah. I wonder, I guess it's maybe because she pled guilty. 0:32:43.420 --> 0:32:45.880 They gave her some deal. But, you know, so if 0:32:45.940 --> 0:32:48.480 she's 60, she'll be 78 when she gets out. You 0:32:48.500 --> 0:32:51.840 can still live a long life. And if she's a 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.420 healthy 78, she could also still be a dangerous person 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.900 at that point. So it doesn't seem like a very 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:00.280 long time, to be honest. 0:33:00.420 --> 0:33:02.600 No. I mean, 18 years for what she did, I think, 0:33:02.780 --> 0:33:04.960 feels like a lightweight sentence. And I know that these, 0:33:05.500 --> 0:33:09.240 especially probably in a smaller county, you have more limited resources. 0:33:09.300 --> 0:33:11.940 Are you going to spend all of your time getting 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:15.410 your prosecutor ready for a trial? Or are you going to? 0:33:16.260 --> 0:33:19.050 Take a plea deal and put those resources elsewhere because 0:33:19.070 --> 0:33:20.610 you never know what could happen at trial. 0:33:21.250 --> 0:33:21.510 Right. 0:33:21.710 --> 0:33:26.250 So pretty nuts. But Craig Thetford's estate and family was 0:33:26.390 --> 0:33:32.380 also awarded a $ 143 million judgment from Dina Thetford for 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.510 the wrongful death of Craig Thetford. I don't know how 0:33:35.550 --> 0:33:36.650 much of that they'll receive, right? 0:33:36.670 --> 0:33:38.630 How is she going to— does she have money to pay that? 0:33:38.870 --> 0:33:43.010 I think the reason for this lawsuit, this wrongful death lawsuit, 0:33:43.150 --> 0:33:47.060 was to prevent her from maintaining any assets that she 0:33:47.100 --> 0:33:50.640 would have acquired in the marriage or inheriting those. It's like, no. 0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:55.280 Everything that's left of theirs goes toward his family members. 0:33:55.420 --> 0:33:58.340 Right, right. Okay. Yeah, and so, you know, I would 0:33:58.380 --> 0:34:00.060 assume also she'll have to pay them a portion of 0:34:00.100 --> 0:34:05.200 any earnings she ever makes again. In his obituary, Craig Thetford, 0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:09.480 his date that he passed is listed as June 17, 2025, 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.620 which is when his remains were found. He was born 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:17.390 in 1964 in Ranger, Texas, and who's a son, brother, uncle, father, grandfather, 0:34:17.410 --> 0:34:22.170 and friend. And after retiring from his successful roofing business, 0:34:22.250 --> 0:34:25.760 he worked just as hard as a volunteer firefighter. protecting 0:34:26.060 --> 0:34:27.860 the wilderness that he loved. 0:34:28.180 --> 0:34:28.860 Yeah, wow. 0:34:29.180 --> 0:34:33.930 Yeah, and even Dina in her conversations with detectives, they 0:34:33.950 --> 0:34:36.469 were always suspicious of Dina, but they're like, does he 0:34:36.510 --> 0:34:39.410 have any enemies? And she's like, no, everyone loves him. 0:34:39.469 --> 0:34:41.730 He'd give everyone the shirt off his back. He's the 0:34:41.910 --> 0:34:47.189 most well-liked, hardworking person and treats everyone so well. And yeah, 0:34:47.210 --> 0:34:50.750 it's just, it's sad when someone goes missing or is 0:34:50.810 --> 0:34:55.270 murdered and the spouse is like, immediately questioned, but it's 0:34:55.370 --> 0:34:58.469 so often the case that something close to home happened 0:34:58.550 --> 0:35:01.690 that I understand it. It's like, it probably wouldn't have 0:35:01.790 --> 0:35:04.770 taken much for her to get away with this for 0:35:04.810 --> 0:35:05.950 even longer than she did. 0:35:05.969 --> 0:35:07.790 Yeah. I mean, she got away with it for a 0:35:07.830 --> 0:35:09.090 long time, honestly. 0:35:10.070 --> 0:35:10.310 Yeah. 0:35:10.350 --> 0:35:11.350 I'm glad that she was caught. 0:35:11.650 --> 0:35:15.250 Definitely. So Roger was great and he's still working in 0:35:15.270 --> 0:35:15.950 Otero County. 0:35:16.270 --> 0:35:18.750 So you've been in contact with him and then was 0:35:18.790 --> 0:35:20.530 he able to speak to you once she pled guilty? 0:35:20.950 --> 0:35:22.969 I haven't spoken to him since. I just had that 0:35:23.070 --> 0:35:26.470 initial phone call with him when I was first poking 0:35:26.510 --> 0:35:28.850 around when I read about this case. And then I 0:35:28.969 --> 0:35:31.469 saw that it had been wrapped up and I was like, oh, 0:35:31.530 --> 0:35:32.940 I'm going to talk about this. Oh, okay. 0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:33.560 I see. I see. 0:35:33.700 --> 0:35:36.040 Yeah. I didn't think we would be able to schedule 0:35:36.060 --> 0:35:38.100 an interview because he's a very busy person. Right. 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.940 Well, that's, yeah, that's an interesting story. Yeah. I've never 0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:42.340 heard of it. 0:35:42.910 --> 0:35:46.310 Yeah. Maybe we'll be hearing more as now that it's 0:35:46.350 --> 0:35:49.110 wrapped up and I would expect there to be something 0:35:49.170 --> 0:35:52.470 about it. But I also have a recommendation. 0:35:52.610 --> 0:35:52.950 Oh, okay. 0:35:53.310 --> 0:35:55.250 I just watched it actually on Hulu. 0:35:55.270 --> 0:35:55.950 Okay. 0:35:56.070 --> 0:35:59.330 It's a true crime documentary. It's by Investigation Discovery and 0:35:59.370 --> 0:36:04.250 it's a three-part docuseries called Big Girls Wanted Escaping Paradise. 0:36:05.070 --> 0:36:10.030 Paradise is spelled like the fruit, like P-E-A-R, paradise. 0:36:10.250 --> 0:36:10.609 Oh, okay. 0:36:11.190 --> 0:36:15.589 But It's an interesting documentary in that it explores the 0:36:15.670 --> 0:36:21.120 world of feeders, which I had never heard of. Basically, 0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:25.339 there's this man in Las Vegas who created Paradise, and 0:36:25.580 --> 0:36:28.700 it's a house, his house, where he just, he really 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:33.540 loves what he describes as big women. And the story 0:36:33.580 --> 0:36:37.770 is told largely by a journalist and photojournalist who... Never 0:36:37.830 --> 0:36:39.370 felt like she fit in in the world because of 0:36:39.469 --> 0:36:42.009 her weight or never felt like she was fully accepted 0:36:42.660 --> 0:36:45.020 because of her weight. And so she went to explore 0:36:45.100 --> 0:36:49.660 it both as a journalist and as someone who resonated 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:52.690 with like wanting to feel accepted and not judged by 0:36:52.710 --> 0:36:55.020 your body. Yeah. But when she got in there, she 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:57.190 realized something else was happening. There was a lot of 0:36:57.290 --> 0:37:02.129 control with food, a lot of manipulation from her perspective 0:37:02.170 --> 0:37:06.140 and the perspective of other former members of Paradise. I 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:08.900 don't know if they call themselves members, I guess. Cult vibes. 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:14.070 Very much, to me, cult vibes and... A lot of death, 0:37:14.469 --> 0:37:18.230 like not a lot, but at least one death that 0:37:18.430 --> 0:37:21.950 a lot of the people in the documentary felt like was, 0:37:22.469 --> 0:37:25.170 you know, something that contributed to this person's death was 0:37:25.190 --> 0:37:28.680 the way that they were treated in the house. And there, 0:37:29.540 --> 0:37:31.739 I don't know if it would be classified as like 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.919 something to do with a food addiction or not, but 0:37:35.060 --> 0:37:38.600 basically a lot of control. And there's a website that 0:37:38.620 --> 0:37:41.620 they talk about a lot in this documentary. I think 0:37:41.660 --> 0:37:44.480 it's called Phoebe. Let me look it up, actually. But 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:50.900 it's people who are, yeah, Phoebe, obsessed with or fetishize eating. 0:37:52.460 --> 0:37:55.140 And for a lot of these women, their health was 0:37:55.239 --> 0:38:01.230 already at risk. And it was honestly bizarre. The man 0:38:01.330 --> 0:38:05.609 at the center of this, he participates in the documentary. 0:38:05.630 --> 0:38:06.710 Interesting. 0:38:06.750 --> 0:38:09.630 Yeah. But there's also a lot of footage of him eating. 0:38:10.180 --> 0:38:12.819 just saying and doing really awful things. So I don't 0:38:12.860 --> 0:38:16.600 know if it's just like, it's extremely confident. Wow. But 0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:17.080 I wonder. 0:38:17.100 --> 0:38:20.340 Do they interview people who like lived in this house 0:38:20.450 --> 0:38:22.210 previously and got out? 0:38:22.450 --> 0:38:25.410 Yeah. And people who still do and love being there. 0:38:25.770 --> 0:38:28.529 Wow. Yeah. How'd you find this? 0:38:28.550 --> 0:38:32.450 It was just on Hulu. And I was like, oh, 0:38:32.750 --> 0:38:34.390 my husband's traveling for work. I don't have to watch 0:38:34.430 --> 0:38:39.990 a golf tournament this weekend. No offense to golf. Yeah. 0:38:40.010 --> 0:38:43.290 And so I watched the whole thing and yeah, I 0:38:43.330 --> 0:38:46.989 would recommend it. I mean, look, it's a sad documentary, 0:38:47.130 --> 0:38:49.790 but I thought it was exposure to a world I 0:38:49.830 --> 0:38:53.290 hadn't seen before, was not familiar with. And I think 0:38:53.350 --> 0:38:58.700 also we're more inclusive now than we were before and 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.839 our generation and certainly generations younger than us, especially are 0:39:03.300 --> 0:39:07.100 working toward like more inclusive language and Like we all 0:39:07.140 --> 0:39:10.180 grew up in the 90s, like Weight Watchers and just 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:11.800 everything about being skinny. 0:39:12.060 --> 0:39:14.719 Yeah. Well, and just like trying to date. And if 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:19.830 you fall into a category, a person who's being fetishized, 0:39:20.969 --> 0:39:23.390 like I have heard about this from some of my friends, 0:39:23.630 --> 0:39:26.070 some of my curvier friends, where like they'll get creepy 0:39:26.110 --> 0:39:29.049 messages from guys on dating apps who are just like, 0:39:29.670 --> 0:39:31.300 I want to feed you. And they're like, okay. 0:39:32.620 --> 0:39:34.040 That's so strange. 0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:36.280 Like, you're not seeing me as a person. 0:39:36.340 --> 0:39:36.770 Right. 0:39:36.910 --> 0:39:38.930 I'm just a fetish to you. And there's obviously a 0:39:39.010 --> 0:39:42.370 lot of different versions of that, right? But certain people 0:39:42.390 --> 0:39:45.129 in certain demographics have to field that a lot more 0:39:45.170 --> 0:39:47.899 than others. And I think there's probably just a lot 0:39:47.940 --> 0:39:51.520 of frustration and exhaustion that comes with that. 0:39:51.860 --> 0:39:54.680 Yeah, there was a young woman in the documentary who 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:56.779 talked about this being the first time in her life 0:39:56.860 --> 0:40:00.239 she ever felt like wanted by someone. And it's like 0:40:00.300 --> 0:40:04.180 heartbreaking because, you know, not to say that two things 0:40:04.260 --> 0:40:08.969 can't coexist, but if there's an exercise of control or 0:40:09.010 --> 0:40:13.130 maybe doing something that is not healthy, it's not a 0:40:13.150 --> 0:40:17.259 good balance. But yeah, it's called Big Girls Wanted, and 0:40:17.320 --> 0:40:18.980 it's on Hulu if you want to watch it. 0:40:19.340 --> 0:40:22.500 Cool. I do not have a recommendation for you today. 0:40:23.400 --> 0:40:26.180 You haven't just been watching or listening to things all weekend? 0:40:26.650 --> 0:40:28.730 I have watched stuff, but I feel like it's stuff 0:40:28.770 --> 0:40:32.430 that people already have heard of. You know, I watched 0:40:32.650 --> 0:40:37.670 the Crash documentary on Hulu, Mackenzie Shurella. But pretty much, 0:40:37.910 --> 0:40:39.609 if you're into true crime, I feel like you've probably 0:40:39.650 --> 0:40:40.630 watched that already. 0:40:40.650 --> 0:40:40.730 Yeah. 0:40:41.170 --> 0:40:43.350 I thought it was well done. I thought it was interesting. Wait, 0:40:43.390 --> 0:40:44.149 did you watch it yet? 0:40:44.290 --> 0:40:46.469 No, I haven't watched it yet, but I need to. 0:40:46.530 --> 0:40:48.260 I feel like I did a lot of reading about 0:40:48.300 --> 0:40:51.040 that case when it first came out, but I definitely 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.200 would like to watch it. I think that, and maybe 0:40:53.219 --> 0:40:57.340 this is answered in the documentary, I'm always shocked by 0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:01.330 teenagers driving and getting in wrecks that have done things 0:41:01.410 --> 0:41:04.830 before that are questionable because I feel like my parents 0:41:04.850 --> 0:41:06.590 would take my car away if I looked at them. 0:41:06.770 --> 0:41:09.730 The wrong way. Like, her parents basically gave her a 0:41:09.969 --> 0:41:12.200 lot of leeway. She was 17 living with her 19- 0:41:12.190 --> 0:41:17.239 or 20-year-old boyfriend, and they were like, great, you know. 0:41:17.460 --> 0:41:19.400 Okay, yeah, that wouldn't have flown in my household. 0:41:20.239 --> 0:41:23.500 Yeah, so I think it was just, like, a very different— 0:41:23.780 --> 0:41:26.120 I mean, her dad has gotten a lot of flack. 0:41:26.340 --> 0:41:28.460 I read somewhere that he was let go from his 0:41:28.520 --> 0:41:29.540 job after this. 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:30.080 Oh. 0:41:30.460 --> 0:41:32.140 And I have not confirmed that, so I don't know 0:41:32.180 --> 0:41:33.719 for sure, but there was, like, a lot of people 0:41:33.739 --> 0:41:37.000 that got mad at him because he's wearing a T-shirt— 0:41:37.570 --> 0:41:39.609 In the interview that says, like, in sort of, like, 0:41:39.690 --> 0:41:43.950 cartoon-y characters, it says, like, boom. Like, if you were 0:41:43.969 --> 0:41:46.950 to watch a cartoon of, whatever, Bugs Bunny running around, 0:41:46.969 --> 0:41:48.799 and then there's, like, a TNT, and it's like, boom. 0:41:48.820 --> 0:41:50.040 It's just in really bad taste. 0:41:50.100 --> 0:41:52.180 It's just in bad taste. And it's like, that probably 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:54.739 doesn't mean anything, but it kind of, like, blew up 0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:56.960 on the internet. People were like, what the heck? How 0:41:57.020 --> 0:41:57.840 could he do that? 0:41:57.860 --> 0:41:58.020 Mm-hmm. 0:41:58.700 --> 0:42:00.660 And I don't know if there was other reasons, but. 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:02.819 Because it's one thing to feel like you have to 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:05.859 defend your child no matter what. Like, I think that's 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:09.160 probably just this primal instinct that you have when you're 0:42:09.180 --> 0:42:12.600 a parent. But it's another to be insensitive to the 0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.860 harm that they've caused so blatantly. 0:42:15.300 --> 0:42:18.109 Yeah, it was interesting. I recommend it. And I like 0:42:18.140 --> 0:42:21.010 that it was just one. It was like an hour 0:42:21.050 --> 0:42:23.670 or something long. It was it wasn't like a three parter. 0:42:24.390 --> 0:42:27.009 If there's enough content for a three-parter, I'm all for it. 0:42:27.070 --> 0:42:30.209 But I sometimes feel like it's a little stretched out. Yeah, definitely. 0:42:30.230 --> 0:42:32.009 And it was nice that this was just like a one, 0:42:32.070 --> 0:42:33.489 sit down and watch it. I thought they did a 0:42:33.510 --> 0:42:36.350 really good job. We had talked about this case before. 0:42:36.570 --> 0:42:39.870 And then a few months before the documentary came out, 0:42:40.250 --> 0:42:43.310 I was revisiting it. I'm like, oh, I wonder if 0:42:43.350 --> 0:42:44.710 we could get more information about it now. And so 0:42:44.750 --> 0:42:47.570 I was doing a lot of outreach and research. called 0:42:47.750 --> 0:42:50.500 some of the victims' family members. They never answered, probably 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:53.080 because they were like, hey, we already did this documentary. Yeah, 0:42:53.100 --> 0:42:55.640 we're not going to talk on your little podcast. Yeah. 0:42:56.219 --> 0:42:58.700 So anyway, it was a good watch. So I guess 0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:01.149 that is my recommendation. If you haven't seen it, check 0:43:01.210 --> 0:43:01.489 it out. 0:43:01.710 --> 0:43:04.509 Yeah. Well, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. 0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:09.560 If you have a story for us, we would love 0:43:09.580 --> 0:43:13.520 to hear it. Our email is thenife at exactlyrightmedia.com. Or 0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:16.120 you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast 0:43:16.219 --> 0:43:17.960 or Blue Sky at The Knife Podcast. 0:43:18.219 --> 0:43:21.219 This has been an Exactly Right production. Hosted and produced 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:22.510 by me, Hannah Smith. 0:43:22.750 --> 0:43:25.870 And me, Patia Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breifogel and 0:43:25.930 --> 0:43:27.029 Alexa Samorosi. 0:43:27.330 --> 0:43:29.489 This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel. 0:43:29.770 --> 0:43:31.790 Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. 0:43:32.050 --> 0:43:34.190 Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport. 0:43:34.530 --> 0:43:35.810 Artwork by Vanessa Lilac. 0:43:36.210 --> 0:43:40.120 Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.