1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Reach and. 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: I'm Lauren Bogelbaum, and today we have an episode for 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: you about cork closures, cork stoppers, like for wine bottles 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: and stuff. 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it turns out what a whopper 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: of an episode. 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: Who Yeah. 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 2: This was one that I suggested knowing it was going 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: to be kind of huge, but I really underestimated how 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 2: huge it was going to be. Also, I didn't mention 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: to you that I knew that it was going to 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: be huge, So that's my bad. 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Well, I should have looked into it more before I 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: agreed readily, so that's on me. But wow, we were 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: discussing right before we started recording all of the other 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: offshoot episodes. We could get out of this because people 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: have people have thoughts, and they've written about the thought. 19 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: There's science, there's so much oh. 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's oh man, if we were several different 21 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: podcasts all at the same time. I have a whole 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: paper open over here from the CIA entitled Cork Production 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: and Trade, with particular emphasis on the Soviet block that 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: I have not read because that's about military uses of cork, 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: which are mostly not food related. 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and to be honest that there are a 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: lot of things that we could get into more, and 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: we probably will in the future in this episode. But 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: one of the things, one of the problems I ran into, 30 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: is that you can't talk about the cork stopper without 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: talking about the screw cap because it's such a there's 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: just so related. Yeah, they're just so related. 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: The industry is the same industry, and so it's yep, 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: here we are. 35 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: Well, well, was there any particular reason this was on 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: your mind? Lauren? 37 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 2: Oh heck, what did we talk about recently? Aham on 38 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: a barrico, Yeah, where we had mentioned cork oaks, and 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, cork. Why haven't we ever 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: done an episode about quarks? And then I was like, oh, 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: that's why, because it's gonna take me two extra days 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: to read. 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: About yep, as happens often. 44 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh, but right, like it had been on 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: my radar for a long time. Perhaps obviously our first 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 2: episode was about sparkling wine. Also, we relatively recently did 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 2: that episode on the crown cap on bottle caps, yeah, 48 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: which originally came with a little bit of cork in 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: them as an insulator and and also relatively recently, we 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: did that Ramine episode and talked about the cod neck bottle. 51 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: So yeah, bottle closures are cool. They are cul cool. 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm going back to the two thousands. 53 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: Oh dear, this is why we're so fun at parties. 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: We are the most fun at parties. No. 55 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: Well, I mean perhaps saying bottle closures are cool is 56 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: enough to make that point. But they are. There's a 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: lot of interesting stuff going on, yes, absolutely, Oh man, 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: oh man, there is there is, so let's get to it. 59 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: I guess this brings us to our question cork. What 60 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: is it? 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: Well, cork is a type of material that's harvested from 62 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: tree bark and then processed to make all kinds of things, 63 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: but most relevant to us here today stoppers for glass bottles, 64 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: especially for wine and other perishable liquids. Natural cork is 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: this material that's lightweight, elastic, It resists decay, it lasts 66 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: a long time, it insulates warmth, it's very nearly watertight 67 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: and airtight, and it literally grows on trees. It is 68 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: just excellent as a bottle stopper because it's compressible but 69 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: not easily broken, like if you take a piece of 70 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: cork that's just a little bit bigger around than the 71 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: neck of a bottle. You can smush it in there 72 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 2: and it will expand back out as much as possible, 73 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 2: forming a tight seal with the interior surface. It is 74 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: a sustainable natural material and its structure is just really 75 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: cool or cool? 76 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: Quick? 77 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: Wow? Cool? How did you say it? Fuel? 78 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: There you go one. It makes it incredibly useful across 79 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: a number of applications. It's like a tree decided that 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: we should have wine corks. 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: That's that's what it's like. Thank you tree, Yes, thank you. 82 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: Okay. 83 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: So the type of oak typically used for cork is 84 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: a species called Quircus super suber i. Didn't look it 85 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: up here, we are. It's an evergreen. It can grow 86 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: to be some sixty five feet that's twenty meters tall. 87 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: They like it sunny but not very rainy. It has 88 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: a sort of short trunk in these thick branches that 89 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: will support a canopy of about the same diameter as 90 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: its height. The cork oak has leathery green leaves and 91 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: will grow small clusters of flowers, which, if pollinated, develop 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: into acorns that can be used to make seed flour 93 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 2: or roasted as a coffee substitute or used to feed 94 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: livestock like pigs, for example. But the part of the 95 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: tree that we are mostly interested in is the bark. 96 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: Cork oaks grow this rough, deeply furrowed bark that's grayish 97 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: on the outside and reddish brown deeper down, and it 98 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: can grow to be like a foot thick that's like 99 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: thirty centimeters And that species name super comes from a 100 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 2: Greek term for wrinkled skin. The bark is good for 101 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: the tree because it's fire resistant, and these trees grow 102 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: in arid areas where brush fires often break out every year. Now, 103 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: lots of trees grow a certain amount of cork. It's 104 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: like a specialized layer in their bark to help insulate 105 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: the living inner part of the tree. But yeah, cork 106 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: oaks just go for it. They're also really the only 107 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: known trees that can have their bark harvested once every 108 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: so often and be okay. It takes a newly planted 109 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: cork oak over thirty years to produce good bark for harvest, 110 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 2: and they can only be harvested from once every decade 111 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: or so, but they can live for like over two 112 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: hundred years. 113 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Super cool. 114 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: Speaking of let's talk about the cellular structure of cork 115 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: that makes it so useful. Okay, So cork is made 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: up of closed cells that are hollow, you know, filled 117 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: with air, and they're arranged tightly in this hexagonal like 118 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: honeycomb structure. So cork is a foam. It's about eighty 119 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: five to ninety percent air, and the cell walls are 120 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: made of this tough lignin that's coated real thinly with 121 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: layers of waxes and fats which which insulate the cells 122 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: from air and water and other stuff too pretty well 123 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: like acids. Electron micrographs have shown that the cell walls 124 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: are actually a little wavy, not totally straight, which helps 125 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: form tiny crumple zone that like help preserve the overall 126 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: integrity of the material when it's crushed, and can also 127 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: be pulled on and straightened out without stretching or thinning 128 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: the material. 129 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: So cool. These trees are really cool. Again, if we 130 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: were a different podcast, I love them. 131 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: Oh man, I got I got really into cork this week, 132 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: you guys. Okay, Anyway, cork harvesting is done by hand, 133 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: as far as I'm aware, entirely by hand everywhere, and 134 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: this is a specialized skill set you you have to 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: know you know how to not murder the tree while 136 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: you're removing its bark. So first you have to know 137 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: when it's ready, because you want to harvest when the 138 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: cork layer is in its rapid growth stage in the 139 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: spring to summer. Like, if you get in there and 140 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: realize it's not rapid growth stage enough, you have to stop, 141 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: put down what you're doing, and pick it up again 142 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: a year later when it is ready. You start with 143 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: a horizontal cut around the circumference of the trunk and 144 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: then make vertical cuts off of that to create sheets. 145 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 2: They're called planks, and you do this by feel. You 146 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: use this specialized axe to just gently thud into the 147 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 2: bark and then feel down for how deep you can go, 148 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: and then carefully start peeling a safe amount of bark away. 149 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: And yeah, the harvesters will strip the trunk and then 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: some of the thick lower bits of the branches. It 151 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: winds up looking like a really weird like high top fade. 152 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: And apparently these harvesters are the highest paid agricultural workers 153 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: in Europe. Wow, according to ap News. So yeah, which 154 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: seems like a decent link, good source for information. Uh yeah, 155 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: cork is then processed in factories to take it from 156 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: the kind of curly whirly planks that you've pulled off 157 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: of the tree to even strips that are easy to 158 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: do stuff with. So first you dry the planks, then 159 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: boil them to expand the cell structure and like flatten 160 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: the planks out, you know. The planks are then cut 161 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: into more manageable strips and shapes of whatever kind can 162 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: then be cut off or stamped out corks of various sizes, 163 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: maybe whole cork boards or sheets for other uses. Yeah, 164 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: and this is called natural cork, and it's going to 165 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: go through a whole cleaning process before it's sent off 166 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: for making cork stoppers or whatever other use, washing, disinfection, 167 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: maybe lubrication with something like paraffin or silicone. There are 168 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: grades of cork. The good stuff should be dense and 169 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: show low permeability, like via coloration from wine seeping in 170 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: on the interior end, stuff like that to make things fun. 171 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: Though there is no industry wide grading system, basically every 172 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: producer has their own classification. Also, low grade cork can 173 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: be filled in with cork dustin binder to make a 174 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: higher grade, but different from natural cork. 175 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Cork. 176 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: These are called coalmated corks. Yeah, and further, you can 177 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 2: use especially low grade cork and like scraps to make 178 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: what's called technical cork. Basically, you grind down the by 179 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: product from natural cork products into even granules that you 180 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: can then gently smush together using some kind of binder 181 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: glue basically, and then mold into whatever shape you want. 182 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: You can also make corks with a combination of both 183 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: of these techniques, like disks of natural cork attached to 184 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: technical cork. I understand that that's how sparkling wine corks 185 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: are pretty much always made, but yeah, there are all 186 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: kinds of specifications for different applications, depending on the liquid 187 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: to be bottled and its shelf life. Speaking of food 188 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: and drink items, cork has remained so popular a closure 189 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: for things like wine because it stops almost all airflow 190 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: into and out of the bottle. Almost A tiny bit 191 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: of oxygen is important to the maturation process of wines 192 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 2: which are supposed to mature, and a lot of research 193 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: has been done surrounding this, but essentially, both flavor and 194 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: color are affected by oxygenation, and you want a little 195 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: bit to be able to happen. The typical natural wine 196 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: cork will let in about a milligram of oxygen per year. 197 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: But that is not all that's going on amongst a 198 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: cork stopper and a bottle of wine, because natural cork 199 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: that's allowed to remain in contact with wine, as happens 200 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: when a wine bottle is stored on its side, will 201 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: indeed change the flavor of the wine over time, possibly 202 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: adding biteness and other kind of flavors that are not 203 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: necessarily considered good but are sometimes part of the flavor 204 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: profile of a wine. And believe me when I say 205 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: that research is ongoing. It's very it is very on 206 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: and very going both Indeed, of course, wine bottles are 207 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 2: not the only application for cork. You know, there's other 208 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: alcohols too, and other liquids you know, oils, vinegars, honey, 209 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: stuff like that. Many such products are assumed to be 210 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 2: multi use, not like more or less single use as 211 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: with a bottle of wine. I mean, of course, you 212 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: can squeeze a cork back into a wine bottle or 213 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: use a different stopper to keep it fresh for a 214 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: couple of days, But yeah, it doesn't really stand up 215 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: to like multiple use, which is why quarks on things 216 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: like liquor or olive oil, are made with a grippable 217 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: cap attached to the quark so that it can be 218 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: removed and replaced by hand any number of times. And 219 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: cork is used for lots of other stuff, cork boards, 220 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: perhaps obviously, It's used for cork leather, for gaskets in 221 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 2: woodwind instruments, as an insulator in flooring and footwear, and 222 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: all kinds of industrial applications. Cork is used in the 223 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: heat shields of some spacecraft. 224 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: It's really amazing how much the application of cork is 225 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: all the things that it's been used for. On a 226 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: much less serious note, my friend who helped me get 227 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: into wine, she gave me all these like cork magnets. 228 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: Oh so after the wine is done, make a magnet 229 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: out of the cork. I love it. It's great, all right, 230 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: Well what about the nutrition? 231 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: Do not eat cork? 232 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: I'll also also drink responsibly. Sure, well, yeah, we do 233 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: have some numbers for you. 234 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: Oh we do, okay, So the harvest of natural cork 235 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: is estimated to be around two hundred tons a year, 236 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: about half of which is in Portugal, nearly a third 237 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: of which is in Spain. So there's like a smattering 238 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: around basically the rest of north and south of the Mediterranean. Yeah, 239 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: in Portugal, it's nearly a billion euro a year industry, 240 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: with seventy two percent of that value coming from making 241 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: wine stoppers. Note that only about fifteen percent of harvested 242 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: cork goes to the wine industry. It's just really valuable there. 243 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: Portugal sells the most cork to France than the US. 244 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: It is the national tree of Portugal. Worldwide, we produced 245 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: nearly thirteen billion cork wine stoppers every year, and I 246 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: think that that's a little less than half of all 247 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: wine closures, and I believe that that includes both technical 248 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: and natural quarks. I read that screwcap wine is now 249 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: the industry leader, with some thirty seven percent of the 250 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: market share, which if accurate, indicates just a drastic shift, 251 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: not only in the past thirty years before which it 252 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: was essentially unheard of, but just in the past five 253 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: to ten years. We're gonna have to do a separate episode. 254 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit more about it in the 255 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: history anyway, world records. The tallest cork oak on record 256 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: is in France. It is twenty one meters tall. That's 257 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: a little over sixty eight feet, which is around the 258 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: height of like a seven story building. It's I know right. 259 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: It's been around since at least the eighteen nineties when 260 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: it was remarked upon in a travel diary. I think 261 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: that it took the record in twenty twenty four from 262 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: the previously labeled largest cork coke, which is different from tallest, 263 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: but anyway, the corkok in question is this Portuguese tree, 264 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: believed to have been planted in seventeen eighty three. It's 265 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: nicknamed the Whistler's tree for the songbirds that inhabit it. 266 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: It's been harvested from over twenty times. The last few 267 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 2: times that it's been harvested, it yielded enough for some 268 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand wine stoppers, like something near a thousand 269 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: kilos or like two thousand pounds of raw cork. 270 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, these trees are cool. They're so cool 271 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: them up. Oh they're really pretty. You've been written about 272 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: the environmentalism of them. Oh yeah, you can do this, yeah, 273 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: live yeah. 274 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: Speaking of quarkk forests are some of the most biodiverse 275 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 2: forests in the world, with a plant diversity of up 276 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: to one hundred and thirty five species per square meter. 277 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: So cool, so cool. 278 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: Also, there is an International Conference on Quark Science and Applications. 279 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: Its fifth iteration is happening this year twenty twenty five, 280 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: on the thirteenth and fourteenth of October in Lisbon, Portugal. 281 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: So we are weirdly timely for once. Yeah I didn't 282 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: even I didn't plan that one, but but yeah, if 283 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: you're going, oh, if you've been oh my goodness. 284 00:18:51,920 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: Please please listeners cool. No, yes, yes, oh my, but okay, 285 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: we do have quite a history for you. 286 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 3: Uh huh, yep, yep, we do. 287 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: Uh and we are going to get into that as 288 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 2: soon as we get back from a quick break for 289 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors. 290 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, 291 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: the cork oak is indigenous to southern Europe and Africa. Again, 292 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: we're a food show, so the tree itself is a 293 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: whole separate thing. But yes, people have been using cork 294 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: for all kinds of things for over four thousand years, 295 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: for sandal souls, for floatation vnitili, and yes, as a 296 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: way to plug containers like barrels or jars. Archaeologist working 297 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: in Pompeii or on Anci Greek shipwrecks have uncovered amphori, 298 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: which were a popular type of jar or container, frequently 299 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: stopped up with a QRK. Some of these amphor i 300 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: date back to ten to one BCE and they were 301 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: pretty widespread in ancient room. They've even been discovered as 302 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: far as India and England. 303 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and m foi are that bottle type that has 304 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: a sort of like teardrop shape with the pointed end 305 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: being the bottom and then atop the wide end of 306 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: the tear drop you've got a thinner neck and like 307 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 2: double handles. 308 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. 309 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: These were wax lined ceramics that were invented in Egypt, 310 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 2: and different materials were used as stoppers over history, often 311 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: some combination of like reeds, leaves and or rags and 312 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: then a sealant like a softer clay than the jar, 313 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: or a wax maybe. But the Romans hit on cork 314 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: and they loved it. Plenty wrote about the cork oak 315 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: early in the an era as a tree with bad acorns, 316 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: but useful bark. 317 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: Bad acorns. 318 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 2: It was like they are insufficient in number and not 319 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 2: good for eating. Or that's not a direct quote, but 320 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 2: that was the gist. 321 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: That sounds like a movie company, like a production company. 322 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 3: Bad acorn, bad acorns. 323 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, Well, in any case, after the Roman 324 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: Empire fell in four hundred and seventy six CE, cork 325 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: seemed to fall out of common use, at least given 326 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: the written record. That didn't change until glass bottles became 327 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: more ubiquitous in the seventeenth century. Previously, people had been 328 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: using cloth covered wood instead. According to researchers, the French 329 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: were the ones who brought back cork as the preferred 330 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: wine stopper, since it held up better to liquid. In 331 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: Gervais Markham's sixteen to fifteen work The English Housewife, he 332 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: described the process using cork to bottle beer. The cork 333 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: was further secured with strong thread to keep it in 334 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: place in the face of increasing carbonation, a problem that 335 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: also plagued sparkling wines, and as discussed in our Sparkling 336 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: Wine episode, this led to a lot of consternation and 337 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: superstitions for sparkling wine producers until the invention of the 338 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: wired cage to hold the cork in place, called a 339 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: museulee in the nineteenth century. It's kind of interesting to 340 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: me how many of these things were still using. 341 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were just like, well, that works, just fine, 342 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: Let's keep going. 343 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: That works, let's keep doing it. Oh okay. Speaking of 344 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century is also probably when the corkscrew was invented, 345 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: specifically for wine. Before that, quirks had these small nubs 346 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: on the edge so that consumers could remove them with 347 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: their hands. But with improved glass bottles growing demand, and 348 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: specifically in the UK, from what I read, a desire 349 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: to store bottles sideways, people were looking for another method, 350 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: Thus the corkscrew. A sixteen eighty one museum catalog described 351 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: a corkscrew as a steel worm used for the drawing 352 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: of quarks out of bottles, which is a separate episode. 353 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, but I desperately want to return 354 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: to it because I'm curious about When we did our 355 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: can opener episode, we talked about how a lot of 356 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: people don't know how to use can openers anymore. I'm 357 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: wondering if corkscrews are falling into that category. But you 358 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: also were discussing they're very fancy. 359 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: Corkscrew Oh yeah, yeah, cork removers right right right right, 360 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: All of these like sixty to one hundred dollars devices 361 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: that you get it. You know, like whatever the equivalent 362 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 2: these days is of Sharper image. I don't know if 363 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,239 Speaker 2: Sharper image still exists, but right, and it's like some 364 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 2: kind of device that just magically removes the quark from 365 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: your wine with absolutely no effort on your part. And 366 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 2: I feel like these are cheating. And also I do 367 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: not need sixty dollars on a device when the three 368 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: dollar one that you can get from any reputable liquor 369 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 2: store will work absolutely better, or maybe not better, but 370 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 2: just you know, it will do just as well. Yeah, 371 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: you just have to look for the one that has 372 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: the little hinge in one side of it so that 373 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 2: you can. 374 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: Notch it in. 375 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, boop up as you move the anyway, strong opinions 376 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: at any rate. Around the same time, the middle of 377 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 2: the sixteen hundreds, scientists were figuring out more about microscopy 378 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: and biology. One of the first samples of a plant 379 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: that Robert Hook examined under his microscope in the early 380 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: sixteen sixties was quark like this is the material where 381 00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: he noticed the structure of the microscopic pores in the 382 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 2: sample and called them cells, meaning a small chamber named 383 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: for monks quarters. That's why we still call the things 384 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: that make up plant and animal bodies and funguses as 385 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: well cells because of cork. He also further surmised that 386 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: the shape and arrangement of those cells are responsible for 387 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: the physical properties of cork, which is of course correct 388 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: more or less not super relevant to like wine stoppers, 389 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: but just really cool niche in history there absolutely oh yeah. 390 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, cork remained the favorite stopper for non sparkling wines. 391 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: Commercial cork production got underway in the eighteenth century in 392 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: areas where the cork oak crew. The process of cork 393 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: harvesting has remained largely unchanged since then. 394 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, speaking of commercial cork productions. So colonists did 395 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: bring cork oaks to what would become the United States 396 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: back in the sixteen hundreds, and the trees can be 397 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 2: found in spots around the country today, but they're one 398 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: Mediterranean crop that just never took off in California, however, 399 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: there was some kerfuffle about cork shortages during World War Two, 400 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: because so by nineteen forty, the US was importing about 401 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: half the world's cork for use in manufacturing all kinds 402 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: of things, consumer products like bottle caps, which right had 403 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 2: the cork linings before plastic hit the scene, cork flooring, 404 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 2: car insulation, but also other forms of insulation up to 405 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 2: and including in bomber planes. So Germany blockaded US. It 406 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: became a whole thing. There was suspected sabotage from a 407 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: cork factory fire in Baltimore, there was corporate espionage over imports, 408 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 2: and so although it did not actually help the war 409 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: effort because the trees again take decades to mature, people 410 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: from youth clubs to state governors were like actively and 411 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: patriotically planting cork trees around the US. You see, Davis 412 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: for example, has like five hundred or so. And also 413 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 2: they have a campus tree map if you're ever over 414 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: that way and you want to like look at some 415 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 2: specific trees. 416 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: Yes, right, listeners, let us know. 417 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: Apparently they did a harvest of one of the corks 418 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: on a cork oaks on campus relatively recently, and like 419 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: they had like a whole like they've got signage up 420 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: to like explain why it looks the way that it does. 421 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. That's fantastic. All right. 422 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: Here we get into a lot of the twist and 423 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,120 Speaker 1: turns of recent decades when it comes to cork. 424 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 3: That is kind of a screw cap pun. But here 425 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 3: we go. 426 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Laurreen. Yes, you see what I'm doing. 427 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: All right. So, beginning in the nineteen nineties, there was 428 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: a decline of cork production and a decrease in cork value. 429 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: This was largely blamed on plastic stoppers and screw tops 430 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: when it came to wine. In two thousand and two, 431 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: founder of California's Bonnie Dune Winery, Randall Graham, orchestrated a 432 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: funeral for the corkscrew in New York's Grand Central Station. Okay, 433 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: okay oh. I had to look into this to make 434 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: sure I was not being pranked by the onion or something, 435 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: but it did happen. Trumpets announced the arrival of a 436 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: hearse transporting the casket of a cork dummy named Tiri Bouchan, 437 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: which is French for corkscrew. The eulogy was delivered by 438 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: famous wine writer Chansis Robinson with the opening line, Oh cork, 439 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: Oh cork, Oh, corky cork, how we shall miss thy 440 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: cylindrical barkie majesty. This was in part to advertise the 441 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: largest US bottling of fine wine with screw caps eighty 442 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: thousand bottles of one of Graham's own wines. Before that, 443 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: screw caps were largely associated with cheap wines, and so 444 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: he was trying to turn that image around. Obviously, the 445 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: cork industry was not happy about this, and it caused 446 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: a huge ordeal. Graham himself later went on to explain 447 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: he had no idea that the stunt would cause such 448 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: a stir, and that he'd started experimenting with synthetic stoppers 449 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six to combat cork taint, eventually settling 450 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: on screw caps. So, cork taint is when, yes, the 451 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: cork gets contaminated with two four six trichlorinisol, which gives 452 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: the wine that unpleasant smell and it spoils the wine. 453 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's the reason why you might sometimes be 454 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: asked to smell the cork. And this whole thing TCA 455 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: was first discovered in nineteen eighty one. 456 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, TCA right, And so if a restaurant hands 457 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 2: you a cork and like a mini pore of wine 458 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: from a bottle that you ordered, you are meant to 459 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: appraise them for whether they're tainted by TCA or some 460 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: other obvious issue. There the restaurant is not asking you 461 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: for your emotions about the wine. They're showing you that 462 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: A you're getting the bottle that you ordered, and B 463 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: it's drinkable wine and does not seem to have gone 464 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: to vinegar or like taste like wet cardboard. 465 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: I will reiterate it is really bad. 466 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: I've never had this happen to me, but it is. 467 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: You know, I don't like to things away. I have 468 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: poured out a bottle of them. Oh wow, bad. 469 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, Apparently TCA is particularly we are humans are 470 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 2: particularly sensitive to it. 471 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, well, and it was a big problem, and 472 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: it led to the invention of the screw cap for 473 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: wine in the first place. So again, separate episode, but 474 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: it's so closely related. Yeah, Like I got a touch 475 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: like that, like very briefly. 476 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 477 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the screw cap for wine was developed in 478 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine by French bottle manufacturer Le Bouchon Mechanique, 479 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: and in nineteen sixty four it was requested by an 480 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: Australian winery that was fed up with cork taint. And 481 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: this was partly because exporting wine from Australia was a 482 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: lengthy process. It's so far away from everything that there 483 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: was more time and opportunity for their wines to get 484 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: cork taint. While screwtops weren't new, they were pretty new 485 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: when it came to wine, and at first they encountered 486 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: a lot of resistance from cork producers, wine producers and consumers. 487 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: It took decades for them to become a more commonplace 488 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: in the nineties and two thousands, in part due to 489 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: a concerted effort by Australian winemakers to bottle their best 490 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: wines and screwtops. Over time, the screwtops were further improved 491 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: to allow in some air for the aging process, as 492 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: discussed if you look it up, like New Zealand and 493 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Australia they have the most screwtop wines and there's also 494 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: a reason they were pretty They led the way when 495 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: it came to box wine as well, so see our 496 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: boxed wine episode for more on that. Yes, absolutely, plastic 497 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: win stoppers came onto the scene in the nineteen eighties 498 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: and this whole thing, the rise of groog caps for 499 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: wine because of the frustration with TCA, prompted the cork 500 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: industry to try to get rid of TCA in their 501 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: quarks and they use some really expensive technology and labs 502 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: to do it. Recently they have about a ninety nine 503 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: percent success rate. 504 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: And that is why restaurants well a reason why a 505 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: restaurants still do like the cork and sample presentation thing 506 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: because one percent is very low, but it is not zero, 507 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 2: and if you're going through one at a volume, you 508 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: will eventually find it. Also, there are other strains of 509 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: molds that can get in there. Believe me, the industry 510 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: is working on it. There was a shift towards alternative 511 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: bottle stoppers for both inexpensive and premium wines for a 512 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: couple decades there. As a result of all of this, 513 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: the premium category is slowly switching back to cork. In 514 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: some cases. Some producers really like those modern airflow screw 515 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: caps that the airflow screw caps provide oxygen flow the 516 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 2: most similar to natural cork. Synthetic quarks give you too 517 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 2: much oxygen flow like they provide the most oxygen flow 518 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 2: in and out, and traditional screw caps provide the least, 519 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 2: so too little. Anyway, I read a lot about oxygen 520 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: flow into bottles of wine. 521 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: I hear you, Lauren, I did too, And speaking of 522 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: there are other pieces of this arguments the loss of 523 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: the ritual of opening a corked bottle of wine versus 524 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: also the convenience of not needing a corkscrew to that end. 525 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: The zork closure. I learned that this is a whole 526 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: game that I want to research from the eighties from MIT, 527 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: I think, but if we're not talking about that. The 528 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: zork closure was invented in two thousand and three. This 529 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: is a combination of the screw cap and the quark 530 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: seals like a screwcap bottle and pops like the cork one, 531 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: so you still kind of get that ritual. The metacork 532 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: is another one which keeps the cork but eliminates the 533 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: need for a quirkscrew, which was invented around the same time. 534 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: I think I've actually experienced both of these. I've seen 535 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: them in the wild. There are a lot of other 536 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: examples too. I have to say these are just a 537 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: mirror smattering. 538 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I did not even go into 539 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: all of that. I was like, different episodes because right, like, 540 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 2: we're doing cork right now because we kind of need 541 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 2: it first before we can tackle screw caps or synthetic qrks. Like, 542 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 2: probably we should have done it before bottle caps for 543 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 2: a proper liquid bottle closure timeline. But here we are, here, 544 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 2: we are. Yeah, at any rate, it is truly wild 545 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 2: how intensely the market has diversified over the past thirty years. 546 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 1: Yes. 547 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the aforementioned Whistler tree was designated a tree of 548 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 2: Public Interest in nineteen eighty eight, and it won European 549 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 2: Tree of the Year in twenty eighteen. A contest that 550 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: I need to learn more about. 551 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: A tree a public interest. 552 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that too. 553 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like the tree has done something. It's 554 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: got like it's poster up. 555 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 2: I assume it's it's it's like a like a like 556 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: a historical landmark kind of thing. 557 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 3: But I like where your brain is going. 558 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: Oh no, I've seen this tree's picture in trees up 559 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: to stuff. Yeah, I love that. I love that, Okay. 560 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: In recent years. In recent years, cork trees have been 561 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: producing thinner strips of bark, which is a problem for 562 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: making quarks. Researchers suspect climate change that that is to blame. 563 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: There's also been conversations around the ego friendliness or not 564 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: of screw gaps and cork so as mentioned, cork oaks 565 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: just have this biome that's really really amazing. So there's 566 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: been a lot of discussion about that. 567 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, as always. I mean there's you know, 568 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 2: like the care and stewardship of natural resources like trees 569 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 2: and the resources that it takes to create petroleum products 570 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: like plastic. But we'll have to go into it another 571 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: time at any rate. Yes, one last historical note here. 572 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 2: Just this year, there was some worry about Cork economically 573 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: amid the Trump Administration's tariffs, which, to review very briefly, 574 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 2: tariffs are taxes that a government charges its own citizens 575 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 2: in order to import products made outside of their country. 576 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 2: So the Trump administrations tariffs are taxes that we Americans 577 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: pay to import anything we want from not here. I'm 578 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 2: sure a lot of y'all know that. It seems like 579 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 2: there's been some confusion about it lately, possibly from the 580 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: administration itself. So I just thought I just thought I 581 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 2: might mention that that's what that means anyway, Cork. Yeah, both 582 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 2: Portuguese diplomats and California wine and industry folks really campaigned 583 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 2: for an exemption from the tariff on EU products, which 584 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: as of recently was set at fifteen percent, and the 585 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 2: exemption happened. Good for them as of September first, it 586 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 2: happened anyway, These things are moving fast. 587 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, thing is moving so fast. 588 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yep. 589 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: And as as mentioned repeatedly throughout this episode, people are 590 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: doing the research. Things are changing fast. Like even the 591 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: numbers we said. 592 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like right, like there were a few 593 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 2: places in here where I was reporting on numbers that 594 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 2: were from good sources. But I was like, oh, I'm 595 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: not that was three years ago. That was yeah, not 596 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 2: totally sure. 597 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's moving fast. And you know, we didn't really 598 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: get into it too much in here, but that sort 599 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: of brief aside of screwcat wine being cheaper, are just less. 600 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 1: That's the wine you don't want to get. Yeah, that's 601 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: kind of changed too. Yeah, absolutely, a concerted effort has changed. 602 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: And I also think just people, sometimes you just want 603 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: that wine. You don't need that corkscrew. Right, Sometimes you 604 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: want the wine, you need the corkscrew, But sometimes you 605 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: want the wine you don't need it. Yeah. 606 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: Well, I mean you know, sometimes for example, you're you're 607 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 2: you're traveling and uh, you don't have a quarkscrew with you. 608 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 2: You couldn't have brought it through the tsa, even if 609 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: you had thought to bring one, and you know, and 610 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 2: you want to grab a bottle of wine screw caps 611 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 2: so convenient. 612 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: I think there's a place for all these things. I agree, absolutely. Yes, Well, 613 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: people have strong opinions, so listeners, if you have strong opinion, 614 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: you can write it. Yes, oh please do yes, absolutely. 615 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: But I think that's what we have to say about 616 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: this pretty wide topic for now. 617 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, mostly because we both cut ourselves off. 618 00:40:59,320 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: But bye. 619 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 3: But we do already. 620 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 2: Have some listener mail for you, and we will get 621 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 2: into that as soon as we get back from one 622 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 2: more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and 623 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 2: we're back. 624 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. All right back with Strew. 625 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 626 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: I have to say this episode, I took a lot 627 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: away from it because there was just so much information 628 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: and I have a lot of old bottles of wine, 629 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: and so now I'm worried. I'm going to test. 630 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all you can do, you know. 631 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: That's all I can do. GC, I don't know. Okay, 632 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 1: So Jacob wrote about our Apricot episode. I was listening 633 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: to your recent episodes and was excited to see an 634 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: episode about the a fruit. But was surprised you guys 635 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: didn't come across a superstition about the aforementioned stone fruit. 636 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: Among armored vehicle crews in the US, this golden fruit 637 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: is considered an invitation of disaster going back to World 638 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: War Two. I'll leave military historian Lieutenant Colonel Nicholas Morin 639 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: to better explain the history and the risk, and included 640 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: was a link. I did not run across this in 641 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: my research, but to briefly explain, apparently this because there 642 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: was a lot of attacks on landing vehicle tracks or LVTs, 643 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: which were used popularly during the Pacific theater, there was 644 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: a superstition that they all had apricots on them. So 645 00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 1: it became so prominent the superstition that even if you'd 646 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: eaten an apricot, you might not be allowed on. Oh okay, 647 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: and that, and the video goes on to point out, 648 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: of course, did they target coffee, which was on every ship? 649 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: Did they target right? 650 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 3: Right? 651 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,919 Speaker 1: But apricots became the thing. 652 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like like bananas on boats. 653 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. 654 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: I get it. I'm not I don't know. I get 655 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: why people are superstitious. I do the same things too, 656 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: even if I don't really believe it. 657 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. 658 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 2: And I mean, and if it's the difference between like 659 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 2: okay like like we have a like, is there something 660 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 2: I can do to make us live that would be great? 661 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 3: Not eat apricots, No problem. 662 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: I love That's something I can control, right, refrain from that, 663 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: I recommend I'm obviously paraphrasing the video. I recommend searching 664 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: it out. But you know I didn't run across that 665 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: in my renow me neither interested to learn about it. 666 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for writing in. Oh goodness, Bob wrote, 667 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 2: It's been quite a long time since I last wrote in, 668 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 2: but I'm still listening and still living in China twenty 669 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 2: seven years in counting. Your timing is impeccable with your 670 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 2: Mooncake episode, as tomorrow is Mooncake Day in China, we 671 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 2: celebrate with a week long Golden Week holiday, which I've 672 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 2: spent mostly down in the mountains or big hills just 673 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 2: south of hang Zhou on our annual paragliding club trip. 674 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 2: The actual most important day of the mid Autumn festival 675 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 2: is tomorrow, the sixth of October, this year's date, but 676 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 2: we started receiving gifts of mooncakes about a week and 677 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 2: a half ago. I had to laugh at the comparison 678 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 2: between mooncakes and fruitcakes. It's absolutely true. It's just one 679 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: of those holiday traditions. I personally don't usually eat them. 680 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 2: My wife may have one or two during the holiday period, 681 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 2: but mostly they go untouched or regifted unless they're ones 682 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 2: we particularly like. Occasionally we will receive the snowy ones. 683 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 3: They can be, Okay. 684 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,959 Speaker 2: I have to say, though, that there is one type 685 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 2: of mooncake that didn't seem to get onto your radar, 686 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 2: and they're the only ones I really like. My absolute favorites, 687 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 2: though somewhat non traditional, they are the ice cream mooncakes. 688 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 2: Several companies make them for the mid autumn festival, even 689 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 2: Hogs and Dogs Hogendas offers them regionally. They are quite popular, 690 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 2: I believe anyway. I just thought you might find the 691 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 2: idea of ice cream mooncakes interesting and wanted to let 692 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 2: you know that they are an option at this time 693 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 2: of year, and then attached a page with a bunch 694 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 2: of the offerings of Hogan Does from twenty twenty two 695 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 2: and just to give you guys a tiny bit of 696 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 2: a sampling here. Okay, so we've got dark chocolate ganash 697 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 2: and almond ice cream with orange chocolate cantalope melon ice 698 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:15,879 Speaker 2: cream with Chinese oulung tea chocolate, and then a strawberry 699 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 2: ice cream with Kyoho grapes puree. Wow, all right, I'm 700 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 2: like okay, And they are beautiful looking boxes, very fancy. 701 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 2: I did run across that briefly. I might have said 702 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 2: I might have like said, said the word ice cream 703 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 2: mooncake somewhere in that episode, but I certainly did not 704 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 2: focus on it. But thank you, thank you for seeing 705 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,920 Speaker 2: more about it and for linking to this whole product line. 706 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: Yes, oh my gosh, you know we love that. Uh 707 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: and this is also just random shout out. This is 708 00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 1: also Halloween times, and I know that in China and 709 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: Japan there can be some great Halloween Oh yeah, Tians. 710 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we're almost shy about doing that 711 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 2: kind of thing in the US, but China and Japan, 712 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 2: I assume other places as well that have have picked 713 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 2: up on the American conception of Halloween just go way harder. 714 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,399 Speaker 3: And I loved it so good. 715 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: I do as well. But yeah, thank you, because we 716 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,959 Speaker 1: really wanted to know about this experience from someone who's there, 717 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: and we love looking at all the flavors that are offered. 718 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 3: Also good to hear from you. 719 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: Yes, we were just talking about you, Pop. We were 720 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: hoping you were well. 721 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so we get attached to y'all who write 722 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 2: in sometimes. 723 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: Well. Thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. 724 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can 725 00:47:58,760 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: or email us hello at SAVE. 726 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 3: We're also on social media. 727 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 2: You can find us on blue Sky and Instagram at 728 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,359 Speaker 2: saver pod and we do hope to hear from you. 729 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 3: Save is a production of iHeartRadio. 730 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, 731 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 732 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 2: Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 733 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 2: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope 734 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 2: that lots more good things are coming your way.