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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Man, Welcome back to Coast to Coast, George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Rich Martini back with us. Award winning filmmaker, best selling author.

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Speaker 2: After his close friend died in his arms and then

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Speaker 2: came to visit him, leader and members of his family,

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Speaker 2: he's been writing about how it's possible to continue a

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Speaker 2: conversation with someone on the other side. Rich Martini back

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Speaker 2: on Coast to Coast. Mister Martini, I love running into

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Speaker 2: you at live events. How are you, sir?

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Speaker 3: I am great, sir, and I'm just glad that we're

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Speaker 3: running into each other live events as opposed to the opposite.

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Speaker 2: Well, even if we did on the opposite you'd still

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Speaker 2: be able to communicate with us.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and we'd still have a fun conversation because George,

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Speaker 3: every time I talk.

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Speaker 4: To you, you put a smile on my face. Likewise, great

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Speaker 4: to hear your voice, and wow, I really.

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Speaker 3: Appreciate you inviting me on. I heard these guys were

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Speaker 3: mounting a new trip to go out and look for Amelia,

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Speaker 3: and I wish them all the best. But all I

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Speaker 3: can say is when they don't find her give me

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Speaker 3: a call because I know where she is, I know

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Speaker 3: where her plane is. And as you mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 3: I've been talking to people on the flip side is

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Speaker 3: I like to call it for the past fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: It just it's one of these logic things. So let

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Speaker 3: me let me just do a little logic puzzle. Winston

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Speaker 3: Churchill says that he saw her, said that he saw

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Speaker 3: Abraham Lincoln's ghost in the White House. Now, if we

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Speaker 3: don't believe in ghosts, do we assume that he's lying,

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Speaker 3: or do we.

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Speaker 4: Assume that he made it up?

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Speaker 3: Or is it possible that we just don't know because

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Speaker 3: we didn't experience it. We weren't there. He says, that's

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Speaker 3: what happened. And in the case of looking for Amelia,

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Speaker 3: it's a little bit like one person telling us that

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Hoffer was buried in Shase Stadium. And if one

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Speaker 3: person tells you he's buried there, should we go dig

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Speaker 3: up Shaye Stadium or maybe look at the place where

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Speaker 3: two hundred people.

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Speaker 4: Have said that they saw her there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if two hundred people saw Tom haff Fantineck,

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Speaker 3: for example, or Poughkissie, wouldn't you go there wouldn't that

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Speaker 3: be the most logical place to go and say, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how he could possibly be there, but

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Speaker 3: maybe he is, and that you would think exactly. And

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Speaker 3: that's what Saipan represents. I've been to Saipan, as you know,

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Speaker 3: and I've interviewed people there.

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Speaker 4: I've filmed fifteen.

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Speaker 3: New eyewitnesses, but I've gathered over two hundred eyewitnesses.

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Speaker 4: The people who were there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I went to Saipan with Mike Harris and

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Speaker 3: I know less Kenny went there many times, and other

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Speaker 3: people have been and they've talked to people, They've talked

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Speaker 3: to eyewitnesses. And when somebody tells you, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: saw her come ashore or as I've heard people who

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Speaker 3: were interviewed. Vincent Lewis interviewed some of these people that

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Speaker 3: Mike Harris did. She brought her plane down on Millia Tall.

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Speaker 3: People saw that happen. Then they saw her arrested by

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Speaker 3: the Japanese, reported her being slapped by the Japanese, reported

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Speaker 3: her and Fred being put aboard a ship and taken

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Speaker 3: to Jaluid by the Japanese. There are eyewitnesses who said

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Speaker 3: they saw her aboard that ship. There are eyewitnesses who

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Speaker 3: said they saw her come ashore in Saipan all around

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Speaker 3: that same time. I've interviewed a few of them. Then

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Speaker 3: there's eyewitnesses who saw her incarcerated and who knew that

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Speaker 3: she was in a cell there. But there's also US

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Speaker 3: Marines who when they got to the island in June

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Speaker 3: in nineteen forty four, who found her briefcase, who found

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Speaker 3: her passport, who saw the plane. I've interviewed at least

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Speaker 3: a dozen people who claimed that they saw her plane,

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Speaker 3: saw her briefcase, or the guy who decoded the message

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Speaker 3: while he was in the marine headquarters that said, and

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Speaker 3: he said it came from sync pack and he gave

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Speaker 3: it to Clarence Wallace's COEO, and it said, we have

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Speaker 3: found Amelia Earhart's airplane at Aslito Airfield. Now, why would

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Speaker 3: anybody ignore that? Why wouldn't you look there?

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Speaker 2: And it was in pretty good shape, wasn't it?

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Speaker 4: Apparently because they flew it.

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Speaker 3: A number of Marines claimed that they saw it flying

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Speaker 3: around the south part of the island. A very unique plane.

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Speaker 3: As one marine said to me, it had only been

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Speaker 3: missing for seven years. We know exactly what it looked

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Speaker 3: like and when we saw it. We recognized it instantly.

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Speaker 3: Plus they heard people say, you can't go in there

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Speaker 3: and look at Amelia Earhart's airplane.

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Speaker 2: There was a Lockheed model Tenny electure.

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Speaker 4: Right, That's absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: And so Dick Spank, I don't know if you've had

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Speaker 3: him on the show, but Dick Spank and Lets Kenny

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Speaker 3: and Mike.

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Speaker 4: Harris all went to Millie A.

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Speaker 3: Toll.

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Speaker 4: Dick has been many times and he's gathered.

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Speaker 3: Pieces of a plane from Millia Toll, and those were

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Speaker 3: studied by Jim Hayton, who is an NTSB investigator in Seattle, Washington,

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Speaker 3: and I I've seen him on film saying be got

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Speaker 3: a shadow of a doubt because he owns the same materials,

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Speaker 3: and he showed me where they fit on the plane

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Speaker 3: that they could only have come from Amelia Earhart's model plane.

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Speaker 3: So my point is, why bring your pull hair out

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Speaker 3: of your head trying to figure out where she is

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Speaker 3: somewhere else when all of these things line up one

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Speaker 3: after the other.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I really bless these guys' hearts.

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Speaker 3: I hope that they have a wonderful trip there. I

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Speaker 3: just I really feel it's time to.

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Speaker 4: Really and now here's the other part of it.

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Speaker 3: Georgia and you know me. I've been talking via mediums

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Speaker 3: meetings who work with law enforcement members of different law

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Speaker 3: enforce from an agency, so I know how effective they are.

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Speaker 3: They've told me consistently that Amilia wants to converse, that

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Speaker 3: she wants to talk, and so over the past fifteen years,

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Speaker 3: I've had continuing conversations with her, and I'm asking details

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Speaker 3: about her life and her journey. For example, I had

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Speaker 3: heard from Elgin Long, who now says he didn't tell

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Speaker 3: me this, but all I can tell you is I

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Speaker 3: record everything. He told me that he had talked to

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Speaker 3: Dorothy Putnam and that was George Putnam's wife.

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Speaker 4: And just before she divorced him, she had.

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Speaker 3: Walked in on a room with Amelia and George and

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Speaker 3: another woman, and mediums were telling me that this other

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Speaker 3: woman was the love of her life, that she was

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Speaker 3: a painter, that she was from Europe. Different mediums who

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Speaker 3: had never met me, didn't know anything about me, would

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Speaker 3: tell me the same answers. And a couple of months ago,

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Speaker 3: I'm doing a session with Jennifer Shaffer. You know, we

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Speaker 3: do a podcast hack in the Afterlife, and during this session,

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Speaker 3: she said Emilia's telling me you should put this into

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Speaker 3: chat GPT, you should go to AI and ask for

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Speaker 3: what you're looking for. And so I thought, well, that's

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Speaker 3: a weird thing to say, what a weird odd thing

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Speaker 3: to say, But I said, why not? So I put

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Speaker 3: all the parameters, and of course I've read all George

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Speaker 3: Putnam's books, all Emilia's books, and all of these, all

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Speaker 3: of these different mediums I've talked to. I just didn't

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Speaker 3: have a name of this painter. I put it all

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Speaker 3: in there, and George, I pushed enter, and up came

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Speaker 3: one name. And then I followed that person's life and

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Speaker 3: I looked at all of her photo all of her

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Speaker 3: paintings that she had done, and lo, the old nineteen

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Speaker 3: thirty two she had a painting which she called anonymous,

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Speaker 3: but it was Amelia Earhart, clear as a bell. And

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Speaker 3: of course then I took that information back to Jennifer

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Speaker 3: Schaffer and said, hey, listen, I would look something up

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Speaker 3: the other day, and Jennifer before I could, finished the

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Speaker 3: sentence that Emilia is here and telling me you found her.

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Speaker 4: So I found the woman that was.

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Speaker 3: The love of her life, who was a painter from Europe.

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Speaker 4: Something she had to hide. She had so many seecrets

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Speaker 4: in her life that she had to hide.

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Speaker 3: And what the last time we spoke, like last week,

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Speaker 3: she said she was so disappointed that the Equal Rights

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Speaker 3: Amendment has never been passed. It was something she helped

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Speaker 3: create one hundred years ago. And even though, as I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you heard that, people were talking about, well, it's

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Speaker 3: been ratified by the entire nation, it just hasn't been

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Speaker 3: gone into law.

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Speaker 4: She was saying. She was sad.

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Speaker 3: That was the word she used, sad that it had

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Speaker 3: never come into law. So this is the point, and

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Speaker 3: this is why it's important what we're doing. You and

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Speaker 3: I talking about the ability to ask people on the

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Speaker 3: other side questions about our journey, about our lives, what's

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Speaker 3: their impression of how we're living, and is there anything

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Speaker 3: we can do to fix it or to help the planet?

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 4: Does?

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Speaker 2: But rich, why was she arrested and harmed by the

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Speaker 2: Japanese four years before there was a war?

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Speaker 3: Well, first things first, nineteen thirty six, she applied for

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Speaker 3: a permit.

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Speaker 4: To fly over Japan.

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Speaker 3: She was going to fly from Oakland and then in

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Speaker 3: the westerly direction, but because of her plane got wrecked

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Speaker 3: in Hawaii. The US Navy took over the repair of

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Speaker 3: it and they changed her flight pattern, and it was

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Speaker 3: around that time when they decided to put and there's

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Speaker 3: a guy who was interviewed.

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Speaker 4: I interviewed his son.

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Speaker 3: They put us by camera on her plane and a

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Speaker 3: fair Child aerial surveillance and it was supposed to take

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Speaker 3: pictures of the deep water ports Japan was building in

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Speaker 3: order to go to war, because they had said they

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Speaker 3: wouldn't do that in the mandated islands.

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Speaker 4: But the problem was she flew over these islands because.

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Speaker 3: Of a storm at night, so there was no pictures

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Speaker 3: she could have taken. However, when she landed the plane

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Speaker 3: on Milia Toll, one of the locals there saw her

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Speaker 3: bury a metal case. Now was that this fair Child camera,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but I do know that this person

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Speaker 3: reported that, and they went and found a piece of

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Speaker 3: like a medal there.

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Speaker 4: Vincent Loomis's book, I think he talks about it.

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Speaker 3: But the point is she was actively being a spy.

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Speaker 3: She even said to a mechanic in the lockheed where

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Speaker 3: they were fixing the plane, imagine me being a spy.

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Speaker 3: That's been recorded, But that doesn't mean that she actually

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Speaker 3: was a good spy. I do know this, and this

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Speaker 3: has come from Amelia herself and from Fred Noonan, that

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Speaker 3: they were both accused of being spies by the Japanese

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Speaker 3: because in those days, if you spied on another country

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Speaker 3: with an active war, and the Japanese were actively beheading

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Speaker 3: people who they captured who they thought were spy a

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Speaker 3: British couple Shanghai, and they were paranoid at the time, exactly,

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Speaker 3: and so and also there were I have also in

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Speaker 3: this new book. It's a number of sailors who were

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Speaker 3: sailing in the same region, the same area, and their

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Speaker 3: ships were taken away from them and they were incarcerated.

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Speaker 3: And one of them claims that he saw Amelia there

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Speaker 3: when he was incarcerated. But the point is she was

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Speaker 3: in very dangerous territory.

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Speaker 4: She didn't mean to.

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Speaker 3: Now these guys that are going to look for her,

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Speaker 3: that's where she wanted to go. She wanted to go

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Speaker 3: to Gardner Island now called Nicka Morero. But was there's

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Speaker 3: evidence and I showed the book that she constantly, at

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Speaker 3: least three or four times, she was about two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty miles northwest of where she thought she was.

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Speaker 3: Something about her leaning on the controls.

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Speaker 4: I can only tell you.

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Speaker 3: Paul Manz reported it, so did Fred Noonan on their

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Speaker 3: trip when in her book Last Flight, he talked about,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're two hundred and fifty miles northwest to

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Speaker 3: where I thought we were. Anyway, I think that's what happened,

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Speaker 3: because Milia Tole, where she did bring the plane down,

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Speaker 3: is roughly two hundred and fifty miles northwest of where

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Speaker 3: she thought she was, so she came down in hostile territory.

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Speaker 3: The Japanese then came, according to islanders who saw her,

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Speaker 3: came and arrested her and slapped her and put her

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Speaker 3: aboard this ship and took her to Jaluit, where she

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Speaker 3: was treated for her wounds by a young local native

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Speaker 3: who I've seen interviews with him. I've talked to his

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Speaker 3: business partner who said he was beyond reproach, and he

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Speaker 3: said that fred Nona was more injured than Amelia, but

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Speaker 3: that the and he overheard the Japanese sailors calling her

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Speaker 3: a mira, and then he's reported that the many people

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Speaker 3: reported that, and his story never changed, and ultimately she's

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Speaker 3: then taken a sidepan and they wanted her as a

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Speaker 3: bargaining chip to use in this upcoming war that was

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Speaker 3: clearly happening because of the US oil embargo against Japan

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Speaker 3: and all these other reasons. They were building these deep

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Speaker 3: water ports to put their ships. Ultimately, they weren't able

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Speaker 3: to use her as a chip, But they defended Saipan

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Speaker 3: like it was Hawaii because Saipan had been part of

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Speaker 3: Japan in nineteen fourteen and on it was they considered

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Speaker 3: a homeland. They lost sixty thousand or they sent sixty

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Speaker 3: thousand troops. I think thirty thousand died defending that island

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Speaker 3: as if it was Japan because from then the Americans

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Speaker 3: could fly to Tokyo and refuel. The war was effectively

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Speaker 3: over when they took Saipan, so that's why they spent

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Speaker 3: so much time trying to defend it. But here she

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Speaker 3: had been and this is the really bizarre part, George.

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Speaker 3: When I was on Saipan interviewing.

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Speaker 4: Older people, I met.

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Speaker 3: This gentleman and he told me the story, which was

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Speaker 3: corroborated by another older gentleman, that in nineteen forty four,

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Speaker 3: in the spring of forty four, she was on They

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Speaker 3: saw her on the back of a Japanese truck with

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Speaker 3: two other pilots, two other US pilots alive and alive.

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Speaker 3: And well, she's alive. These other two pilots are alive.

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Speaker 3: And both of these guys said the exact same story,

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Speaker 3: the same street, how she was dressed, et cetera. Once

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Speaker 3: I was talking to less Kinney about this, he told

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Speaker 3: me the names of these two pilots. One was Lieutenant

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Speaker 3: William Cornelis. The other and Jimmy McEwan. Both of them

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Speaker 3: had been shot down because they were trying to map

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Speaker 3: what Saipan was and they were executed. One was beheaded

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Speaker 3: and one was shot.

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Speaker 2: And again, this is before there was a declared war.

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Speaker 4: Well, this was.

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Speaker 3: Months before they were already at war. So this is

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty four. This is like May of nineteen forty four.

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Speaker 3: She's still alive.

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Speaker 2: She's still alive, Okay, in May.

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Speaker 4: Of forty four.

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Speaker 3: That's what makes it so uncanny and unusual. And I

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Speaker 3: try not to judge with people are saying to me.

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Speaker 3: I tried to corroborate it, and so I was stunned

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Speaker 3: when this guy was saying that, I thought she had

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Speaker 3: died of dysentery early on, but no, she was still alive.

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Speaker 2: Then seven years later that she's still alive then, still.

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Speaker 3: Alive then and apparently taken around, and some Islanders said

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Speaker 3: that she was very polite to them and tried to

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Speaker 3: talk to their children and just continued being who she was,

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Speaker 3: which was a really wonderful human being who really.

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Speaker 4: Embodied the spirit of this adventure.

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Speaker 3: And she, you know, lived the last years of her

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Speaker 3: life in that way. But in the prison in Saipan,

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Speaker 3: the prisoners had a family that brought them food. No

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Speaker 3: one was there to bring food for her, and they

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Speaker 3: had no cafeteria.

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Speaker 4: They didn't feed people.

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Speaker 3: So she really got sicker and sicker and sickre until

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Speaker 3: she passed away. So all I can say is, you know,

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Speaker 3: this story which has been I wouldn't call it haunting,

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Speaker 3: which is in my sleeve for thirty over thirty years.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I worked on the Amelia movie that Hillary

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Speaker 3: Swank did, I worked on the Amelia movie that Diane

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Speaker 3: Keaton did. I've been telling this story in variations, in

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Speaker 3: various forms, really for forty years, and now I'm just

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Speaker 3: finally putting a book together. It'll be out probably by

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Speaker 3: contact in the desert, where I'm just going to put

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Speaker 3: it all out there and let people, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: they can go find her. I in the book, you'll

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Speaker 3: see the maps of where she said she's buried.

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Speaker 2: What happened to the electro of the plane.

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Speaker 3: So the plane was found in a hangar, and I

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Speaker 3: think it was in June of nineteen forty four. Like

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Speaker 3: I said Erskine Neighbors, the US Marine decoded the message

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00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 3: we found it. Then they would try to decide what

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Speaker 3: to do with it. And it took about two or

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Speaker 3: three weeks before they toned it out of the hangar.

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Speaker 3: But they flew it one day to sea if it

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Speaker 3: would fly.

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Speaker 4: Other guys saw that.

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Speaker 3: But then they took it out of the hangar and

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Speaker 3: the way Erskine neighbors describe that Julius Neighbors was they

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Speaker 3: covered it with gasoline and then they had a P.

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Speaker 4: Thirty eight a.

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Speaker 3: Plane come over across the runway and shoot it up

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Speaker 3: as if it had been shot by the Japanese and

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Speaker 3: it was. It burned on the runway. The casing of

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Speaker 3: the plane is illuminum, so it would have melted.

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Speaker 4: However, as Jim.

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Speaker 3: Hayden, the NTSP guy told me, the steel frame wouldn't

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Speaker 3: melt and it was unique.

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Speaker 4: To that model of planes, so the measurements.

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Speaker 3: Would still be exactly as they were. And I asked

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Speaker 3: people where what happened, and they showed me there's a

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Speaker 3: pit at the end of the old runway where they

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Speaker 3: pushed all the planes off and it's buried there, and

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Speaker 3: that's where I would have to if somebody wants me to,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to go take a ground penetrating radar and

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Speaker 3: find a piece of steel that measures what Jim Hayden

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Speaker 3: said would be the measurements of her plane.

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