1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. We wanted to include a quick content warning 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: for this episode regarding a discussion we have about something 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: in today's film that can easily be interpreted as sexual misconduct. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. On the beck Del Cast, the questions 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: asked if movies have women in um, are all their 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: My name Shamie Loftus. And this is our movie. This 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: is our movie. Nope, this is we made a movie. 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: This is our movie. Welcome to our movie. Uh, this 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: is our podcast. It's been on for four years. I 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: don't know why I said it was a movie. Well, 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, like, this is 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: our movie podcast, this is our movie. Oh I could 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: have saved it in that way. You could have just 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: really seamlessly fixed it without anyone being any wiser. Well, 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: I only do one take. That's uh, something I famously do. 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: We're talking about ghost World today on our podcast, which 20 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: is about movies that uh yeah, it's been on for 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: many years. Oh, our podcast is about Oh, I thought 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: you meant the Ghost World is about movies. I'm like I, 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: I just like sorry. I just got out of a lobotomy, 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: so that's why I'm sounding this way. It's difficult. It's 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: a difficult day. Um five hundred degrees today and my 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: brain is just boiling in my head. Um, is this 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: a podcast? It's a podcast about movies in which we 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: examine the story through an intersectional feminist lens. It's inspired 29 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: by the Bechtel test by queer cartoonist Alice and Bechtel 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: is sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test. That requires, for 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: our purposes that too characters that are not coded male 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: with names speak to each other about something other than 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: a credited male character for two lines of dialogue. Doesn't 34 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: happen a lot? Yeah, but it does happen. Should we 35 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: test it out? Yeah, let's do it. Hey shamey? Yep, No, 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: I was gonna pull a quote from the movie and 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: nothing fits, so never Okay, I have no problem with that, 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: and that passes the test. Yep. Things that aren't good 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: dialogue pass the tests all the time. It's true. Let's 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: introduce our guest. Yes, she is the creator and star 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: of Difficult People. She is the co host of Double 42 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: Threat podcast. It's Julie Clausner. Hi. Hello, Hello, thanks for 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: having me, Thanks for being here. Absolutely, So we're talking 44 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: about Ghost World. Um, Julie, what's your relationship with this movie? 45 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I love Ghost World is one of my favorite movies, 46 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: and I'm excited to talk about it in the context 47 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: of the Bechtel Test because us the film itself was 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: so dramatically different from the book source material, and a 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: lot of people have, you know, take great issue in 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: the focus of the film being on the relationship between 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: ing it and Seymour as opposed to in It and Rebecca, 52 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: and I completely understand that. I think of them as 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: two completely different works. But um, I think it's really 54 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: interesting to talk about that in the context of female 55 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: coded characters speaking to each other about things besides a 56 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: man or a crush. And while I think that, you know, 57 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: this is definitely a step in the in the failure 58 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: of that test direction, I just think it's such an 59 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: outstanding movie and its own right, exclusive of the source 60 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: material that UM, I'm just always excited to talk about 61 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Ghost World. So are you familiar with the source material? 62 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: Have you read the comics. Yes, oh cool, okay, nice, 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: that's helpful for us. We don't quize me because also, 64 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: I didn't you watch this for the podcast. I just 65 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: figured I've seen it so many times that i'll, you know, 66 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: for sure, I don't. Just don't quiz me. I'm going 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: to fail. You know what, quiz me? No, let's do it. 68 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: Quiz me. I'm ready, let's do it. On page forty seven. 69 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: Come on, come on, how dare you? Jamie? What's your 70 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: relationship with this film? Very short? I had not seen 71 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: this movie before. I um, I don't know. I've been 72 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: It's been recommended to me for years and years, and 73 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: it was just one of those movies that I had 74 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: not gotten around to seeing, and I don't It's like 75 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: one of those movies that when I finally did watch it, 76 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what I thought it was about. But 77 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: it's not whatever it was. It is not what the 78 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: movie is actually about. I feel like there's a ton 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: to talk about here. Yeah, I'm very conflicted. Like I 80 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: think that if I if I had seen this movie 81 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: when it came out and or like when I was 82 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: a team in, I would feel probably different about it 83 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: than just coming in to watch it for the backtel cast. Yeah, 84 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about it. What about you, Caitlin? 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Had you seen this before I had? Um? I saw it, 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: I think when I was a freshman in college. Um, 87 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: And that would have been a few years after it 88 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: came out. That would have been in like oh, four 89 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: oh five. I was about the same age as the characters. 90 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: And I I was also going to be like, I'm 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: sure if I had seen this when it came out, 92 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: I would feel differently about it. But I kind of 93 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: did see it at that age, and I, UM do not. 94 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: I can't say that I like this movie, and I 95 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: have reasons. I also am not a fan of this movie. 96 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: It's I don't know, I mean, but I know it's 97 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: value and also, Okay, so it's a huge it's a 98 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: big cult classic. It is very meaningful and very valuable 99 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, such as yourself, Julie. I 100 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that. But again, yeah, I think because 101 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: like Jamie and I were watching it mostly through the 102 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: lens of our podcast. It's there's some issues. Oh, certainly 103 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: there's some issues, even not less, there's issues exclusive of 104 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: the podcast. Absolutely, Yeah, I think the thing that bumped 105 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: me the most on this watch and like analysis of 106 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: it was how much this movie attempts to deal with 107 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: race for an exclusively white cast and like in front 108 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: of the camera and behind like it's just it just 109 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: is the whitest movie on earth. No, no, there's no 110 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: race in this world. There's no race in this world. 111 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: But it also tries to address race through like a 112 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: lot of different plots. It shouldn't. Yeah, I guess what 113 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: I was saying. It's it is very bizarre. I think 114 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: that the Yeah, the most surprising thing to me about 115 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: the story, Like I was kind of I was like, Okay, 116 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure that it will be dated in a number 117 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: of ways in the way it treats its characters, but 118 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: I was surprised that this movie even attempted to address race. 119 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: And uh, you mean in terms of the of the 120 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: poster of the old poster. Yeah, it's more has I 121 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: think that's more about the lens of like a white 122 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: person dealing with what art is. Because after this, he 123 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: made Art School Confidential, which is about being an artist 124 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: in you know, art school obviously, um, and and that 125 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: sort of debate that you have internally these four walls 126 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: and how different that is from the world outside. But 127 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: the race of it, I think is just a total 128 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: prop for the white characters to have a pointed departure. 129 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: It could have been almost anything, right, which means like 130 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: it shouldn't have been race. Yeah, Like, so they should 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: have just I feel like they just should have chosen 132 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: something something else that they were qualified to tackle. Yeah, 133 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: they could have. They could have chosen anything else. That's 134 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: from olden times. That's not okay, And we'll talk more 135 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: about that in a little bit. But um, should I 136 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: just dive into the story and we'll go from there. Yeah, 137 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: let's do it, all right. So we meet Enid and 138 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: Rebecca played by Soora Birch and Scarlett Johansson, respectively. They 139 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: are graduating from high school. They are a little They're 140 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: not like the other girls. They're a little countercut. They're 141 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: like the other girl. Like the other girls, they think 142 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: that everything sucks, which I personally can relate to. So 143 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: in that way, Yet it's a peak like seventeen year old, 144 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 1: which is in a way that is like sometimes painful 145 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: to look at. Sure, Yeah, Enid discovers that she has 146 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: to go to summer school and retake an art class. 147 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: We learn just a little bit about their back stories 148 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: as well. Um they are not going to go to college. 149 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: They plan to just enter the workforce and get an 150 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: apartment together and move in together. Then they see an 151 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: ad in the personal section for a guy who is 152 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: looking for this um striking blonde woman who he had 153 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: met at an airport shuttle and he thought they he 154 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: had a connection with her. So they call him two 155 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: more or less prank him. They pretend to be the 156 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: story a king blonde um and tell him to go 157 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: to this diner called Wowsville, which is great love it 158 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: great name. So Enid and Rebecca wait for him there 159 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: and they bring their friend Josh played by Brad Renfro, 160 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: who will find that, like Enid, maybe has a crush 161 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: on and so does maybe Rebecca. Not totally sure, totally clear. 162 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: And then and I don't know, there's some context for 163 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: that too, And like the ways that studios were trying 164 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: to push the script to go, there's versions of this 165 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: script where he takes on way more significance than he does, 166 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: and the finished in the version that was released. And 167 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: then the man from the ad shows up to Wallasville 168 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: and you'll never believe who it is. It's Steve Steve Bushey, 169 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: and he sits there. He waits, and they take pity 170 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: on him and decide to follow him home. He is 171 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: selling records at a garage sale. Becau he's a record 172 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: collector and he's a music enthusiast, and they decide to 173 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: go talk to him. They find out his name is Seymour. 174 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: Rebecca thinks he's a loser, but Enid is like, I 175 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: don't know, I think he's kind of cool. So Enid 176 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,119 Speaker 1: listens to the record that she had bought from him. 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: She really likes it. She goes back to see him 178 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: and they talk about music, and then she and Rebecca 179 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: go to a party at Seymour's um David Cross is 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: there and he tries to hit on Rebecca and then 181 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: Seymour is like, Enid, I can't believe you came to 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: this party. I'm I'm such a loser. I haven't even 183 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: had a girlfriend in four years. And she's like, well, 184 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: I'll help you find a girlfriend. And then meanwhile, um, 185 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: we see Enid in her art class. We see her 186 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: her teacher criticizing her art projects that she breaks her 187 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: hates car tunes. Yes, you draw car too. This is 188 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: like Daniel Klow's like grinding a very personal ax and 189 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: I think a very obvious way where he's like, you know, 190 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: our teachers think cartoons are fucking stupid. Well guess what 191 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: they're not. Like. That's kind of his whole acts to 192 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: grind in the beginning of this storyline. If you draw 193 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: a cartoon, you suck. So I guess he had a 194 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: teacher that felt that way at some point, and he's 195 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: he's not over it, right, because the teacher in this 196 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: movie is often telling Enid that her projects are not 197 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: thoughtful or political enough. Um. Meanwhile, Rebecca has gotten a 198 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: job at a coffee shop. We will see Rebecca kind 199 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: of becoming and hearing more and more to like societal 200 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: conventions and expectations, and that she starts dressing a little 201 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: bit more kind of conventionally, and she um gets a 202 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: job and she wants to have her own home and 203 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: things like that, while Enid is still sort of trying 204 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: to live the counterculture life. And then Enid and Seymour 205 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: go to a bar to watch music and she tries 206 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: to set him up with this random woman there he 207 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, and then they go back to 208 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: Seymour's house and um, she finds this old poster from 209 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: a Chicken fast food restaurant where he works as an 210 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: assistant manager at their corporate headquarters. And this poster shows 211 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: a very racist name and image that the restaurant used 212 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: to like use. So she takes it with her, this 213 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: poster and brings it into her art class as a 214 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: found art project, and she says that with this piece, 215 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: she's making a statement about racism, how it's whitewashed in 216 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: our culture. And everyone in the class is like, wow, 217 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: that's pretty fucked up, but the teacher is like, wow, 218 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: what a remarkable achievement. Then we see um Enid celebrating 219 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: Seymour's birthday with him, and while this is happening, he 220 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: receives a call from the real striking blonde woman who 221 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: he had placed the ad about Dana. Yeah, Enid convinces 222 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: him to call her back and he meets her and 223 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: they turned out to not have anything in common, but 224 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: they start seeing each other anyway, to Enid's dismay. Now, meanwhile, 225 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: her art piece of the racist poster is put on 226 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: display at a student art show, but people are demanding 227 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: its removal. Enid isn't even there to defend herself because 228 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: she goes over to Seymours and she's like, hey, let's 229 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: hang out and he's like, I don't think it's a 230 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: good idea that we hang out anymore. And it's like, okay, 231 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: this is just occurring to him now, yes, and it's 232 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: like he's like, wait, hold on, I'm Steve BUSHEMI and 233 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: my best friend is seventeen. The optics of this are 234 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: not so good. Yes, another huge issue I take with this. 235 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: It's very bizarre ya. And then she's like, okay, fine, 236 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: I won't bother you anymore. And then Rebecca is like, hey, 237 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: you you clearly don't want to live with me anymore, 238 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: so fuck you. Enid also live loses out on her 239 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: scholarship opportunity for this art academy. Um. So this is 240 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: what we would call the low point of the film, 241 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: and she's sad. So she goes over to Seymour's again 242 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: and she's like, how come you never asked me out 243 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: when I was trying to find you a girlfriend? What 244 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: if I just move in with you? And he's like shrug, 245 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: and then they have sex, which I truly did not think. 246 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen the movie. I didn't 247 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: think it was gonna happen, and then and then there 248 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: it is, and it happens, and I was like, okay. 249 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: And then Steve Bushemy pivots so many times. He's like, 250 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: we shouldn't hang out anymore because you're seventeen. He's like, 251 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: I thought about it. We should actually get married because 252 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: you're seventeen. I'm like, okayes yep. And then so Enend 253 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: seems to regret this decision to have sex with him 254 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: immediately and starts blowing him off and then decides to 255 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: move move in with Rebecca again. Meanwhile, Seymour finds out 256 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: from Rebecca about the prank that they played on him 257 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie, and he thinks that 258 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: she is in love with Josh, their friend who shows 259 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: up every five minutes, so he so Seymour goes to 260 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: confront him, ends up in the hospital. Enid comes to 261 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: visit Seymour in the hospital and she apologizes and she's like, actually, 262 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: you're my hero. You're the coolest person I know. But 263 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: then Enid leaves. It seems like although she and Rebecca 264 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: have made up, there kind of lives are headed on 265 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: different paths. We see Seymour in therapy. He's talking about 266 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: his breakup with Enid, and then Enid gets on a 267 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: bus that is out of service and it might be 268 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: a metaphor for her dying. It's me, it's a metaphor, 269 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: the whole metaphor of us. Guy that you're like, all right, 270 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: this was a book first, Yes, metaphor bus equals it 271 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: was a book. So that's the story. Let's take a 272 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: quick break and then we will come right back to discuss. 273 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: One of the things that stood out to me about 274 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: this movie is was what you were saying earlier, Julie, 275 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: was that I thought that this movie was going to 276 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: be way more about Enid and Rebecca. But Scarlett Johansson 277 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: is actually not in this movie that much. Yeah, Rebecca 278 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: is not a very fleshed out character in the movie. Yeah, 279 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: I guess. I it's interesting because I wish that and 280 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm assuming the books that there was more focus on 281 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: Rebecca because this movie, I mean, it's not really taking 282 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: this side of either one of them on their approach 283 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: to life, and I kind of appreciate that. It's like, Okay, 284 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: they are taking different paths, and that is neither a 285 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: good nor a bad thing, but but it is. It 286 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: is so like just I don't know, there's so much 287 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: about this movie that you're just like seventeen year olds 288 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: are so frustrating, where like Enid is constantly mad at 289 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: Rebecca like how dare you have a job for to support? 290 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: And I'm like, you fucking bratt. I just got so 291 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: frustrated with Enid every step of this movie because she's 292 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: I I she is very isolated by her own you know, 293 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: by her own mentality and by her own approach to life. 294 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: But then it's like there's so much like privilege tied 295 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: up in the ways that she's frustrating. Like she's mad 296 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: that her friend has to have a job to survive, 297 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: which is like, yeah, that's frustrating for everybody, but more 298 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: so the people doing it than their friends. And like 299 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, I I we don't. I guess 300 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: I don't really know enough about Rebecca to really be 301 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: attached to her. But of the two, I was team Rebecca, 302 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: Team Rebecca, team grow up and get a life. Sure again, 303 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: like I see the value in this movie and that 304 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: there weren't that many thoughtful or subversive portrayals of team 305 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: girls in media at as time, and I think that's 306 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: why a lot of people latched on to it so much. 307 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: And again, I appreciate what it's doing. In many ways, 308 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: I relate to Enid and Rebecca like I was similar 309 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: to them in some ways when I was a teenager. 310 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: There are other ways in which I can't and don't 311 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: relate to them. But isn't that the way with characters 312 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: um For me, it's just like it's subversive as it 313 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: is the things that it tries to subvert. In many cases, 314 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: it mishandles. It's it's hard because it's I I was 315 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: thinking a little bit about when we and they're they're 316 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: extremely different movies, but I guess as an example of 317 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: when we talked about Carrie a couple of years ago, 318 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: where that is like the experience of a teen girl 319 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: in a very different genre, but it's told through the 320 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: lens of so many different people who did not and 321 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: could not possibly share the experience of a teen girl, 322 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: and it all kind of like it feels like there 323 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: are things that are true and relatable and like very 324 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: emotionally poignant about it, but then it kind of gets 325 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: lost because it's like, Okay, you know, a man originally 326 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: wrote this book and then a different man. They're both 327 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure emotionally sensitive and wonderful people, but 328 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: there's some stuff that just feels a little off and 329 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: rings a little hollow, and I think that part of 330 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: it can be attributed to that um where it's like 331 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: to Brandon Palmer is not a sensitive no. I I 332 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: just want to get that in there. But as far 333 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: as like Terry and Daniel go, they seem to be 334 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: like a well intentioned writing team that want to portray 335 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: these experiences honestly, but I just kind of wish that 336 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: they had like spoken to and and credited more women 337 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: in that process, and the whole work probably would have 338 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: been elevated if that were the case. The same thing 339 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 1: goes for the I think kind of big miss as 340 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: they make with the comments they try to make on 341 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: racist like, you know, it's just they are not qualified 342 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: to be making these statements, and I think that where 343 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: it does succeed is where they're trying to communicate how 344 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: clueless both Enid and Seymour are about racism, and how 345 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: they are saying a lot of things but clearly not 346 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: understanding them, to the point where Enid is literally trying 347 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: to like advance herself off of the work of other 348 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: people and off of the idea of racism without really 349 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: doing any critical thinking or introspection about it. And that 350 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: reads pretty clearly. But then what like, you have to 351 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: have a black person involved in the production, and you 352 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: have to have a black character otherwise you're just saying, like, 353 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: I don't understand racism here it is here, like I 354 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: don't know, it just doesn't. It just felt very strange 355 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: to me. I agree, I think to that. So the 356 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: comic book was written by Daniel Klou's He co wrote 357 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: the screenplay with Terry why Off, who directed the film. 358 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: So that those are those are people who are telling 359 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: this story. Um, I feel like this is another case 360 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: of like men observing women in the world and thinking, 361 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: I get it. I see how women be, so I'll 362 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: tell their story. And to me, we see a lot 363 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: of this, like, you know, these girls are not like 364 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: the other girls, which I want to clarify something about that, um, 365 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: because every time I teach my my screenwriting class, my 366 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: students are always like, I just want to make sure 367 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: my girl isn't like one of the girls who's not 368 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: like the other girls. And I'm like because I think 369 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: it can maybe be easily misinterpreted. Um, what we take 370 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: issue with is the idea that a woman will behave 371 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: a certain way because she does not want to be 372 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: perceived as being like other women, because other women equals bad, 373 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: because like femininity or womanhood or anything like that is 374 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: a negative thing, and they're trying to disassociate themselves with that. 375 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: That is what we mean by this when we comment 376 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: on this trope, And this is kind of what the 377 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: characters are doing, especially in how they view other female 378 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: characters in this movie. Because even though Enid and Rebecca 379 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: have a what feels like a strong relationship at first, 380 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: although it deteriorates over the course of the movie, there 381 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: are various other characters like a classmate of theirs named 382 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: Melaura who they who just seems to want to hang 383 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: out with them, and they're like, she's so awful. Enid 384 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: hates her like I guess former step mom, or like 385 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: a next girlfriend of her dad's who he starts dating again. Um, 386 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: we're not really sure why she hates her. Think the 387 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: way that the art teacher and the star art student 388 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: is also kind of telling to where it's like the 389 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: star art teacher is very I mean again, I'm just 390 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: like I think that it genuinely as Daniel Klaus grinding 391 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: some old acts that he has from high school. But 392 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: but it is it's like this uh woman who only 393 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: wants to see art about like a bore and vagina, 394 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: and the student who gets rewarded is a like I 395 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: think she's made out to be this overly serious artist 396 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: who only makes things about abortion and vagina and that 397 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: is rewarded, and so it's like, yeah, the way that 398 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: other women are characterized it is a little like you know, 399 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: en It and Rebecca are the outliers. What I do 400 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: appreciate is that in It and Rebecca are clearly flawed, 401 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: and it's made clear to the audience that their way 402 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: of life is not sustainable or like quote unquote right, 403 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: but it is given the most focus. I think, like 404 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: kind of piggybacking off of that, the way that feminism 405 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: is represented in the movie is made to seem like 406 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: foolish and like that feminists are ridiculous because like the 407 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: art that this student is making that the teacher is 408 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: really praising is like feminist art that's pro choice and 409 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: that's you know about there. Let me find the quote 410 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: here something about a shocking image of repressed femininity. And 411 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: then there's also this moment where Rebecca they're looking for 412 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: apartments in like the in the newspaper, and she's like, oh, 413 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: here's one. Oh wait a minute, you'd have to live 414 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: with a feminist and her two cats. Um. So it's 415 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: again it's like, I it's a weird because it's like 416 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: I understand what they're critiquing, and it is kind of 417 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: funny in moments where it's like I feel like the 418 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: art teacher character and the star art student are critiquing 419 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: like the overly serious art world of like here's a 420 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: cup and it symbolizes this serious issue, and I get 421 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: that that is silly and like it is funny to 422 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: poke fun at that mentality, but it does seem to 423 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: but the the again, it's it's similar to the fact 424 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: that they choose race as a topic to make this 425 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: critique they're not qualified to make. It doesn't quite read 426 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: very well for like two straight male artists in collaboration 427 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: to be like we're gonna poke fun at feminist art specifically, 428 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: like why why is that the art they specifically choose 429 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: to pick on. There's so much overly serious art that 430 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: you could, you know, choose and tell a more effective joke. 431 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah for sure. Um well, Julie curious 432 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: because so far we've only heavily criticized the movie. What 433 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: was it that drew you to this movie, into this 434 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 1: story and these characters? Like why I was exactly liking 435 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: it in high school. I've never seen a character that's 436 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: more represented exactly who I was at that age, at 437 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: that point in my life, and I find it to 438 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: be such a true representation of what it's like when 439 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: the person that you fit in with because you're on 440 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: the outskirts of everything is no longer someone that you 441 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: can connect to, and how completely rootless that is, and 442 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: during those transitional moments like the summer between high school 443 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: and college being lost and then everyone else seemingly, you know, 444 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: just falling into place and not feeling like you have 445 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: anywhere to go, and your sexuality is like overwhelming, you know. 446 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: She talks about like being so horny and hating everyone 447 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: at the same time, which I think is such a 448 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: like a perfect encapsulation of that particular age where're like, 449 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: fuck you, get away from me, but also fuck me 450 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: because I'm desperate to connect um that she that she 451 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 1: looks forward in other places, such as like connecting with 452 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: Seymour and you know, trying to trying to you know, 453 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: trying to do things with her, with her art and 454 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: her work and her sketch book. But at the end, 455 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: she doesn't fit in anywhere. She doesn't fit into the 456 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: art world. Uh. The Seymour thing, she realizes was like misguided, 457 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: and she feels gross about she can't go home anymore 458 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: because Maxine is back and she has a you know, 459 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: kind of a strange relationship with her, sort of semi 460 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: cuckold did father to begin with, and we don't know 461 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: what her history was with Maxine, but it was ugly. 462 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: We don't know where a real mom is. And then 463 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: she just stopped connecting to Rebecca. And I've been in 464 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: friendships like that where you have this best girlfriend and 465 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: it's you against the world, and then one day things 466 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: are just different and she wants to like pick tumblers 467 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: at Crate and Barrel and you're like, I am not 468 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: on board. We we used to like we used to 469 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: sit at diners and make fun of everything together. And 470 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: there's such these like there's these like beautiful little hat 471 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: tips to you know, the times that they've spent They 472 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: spent so much time together in high school and all 473 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: of the things that they've been through, And one of 474 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: them is when Enid is doing that like little tag 475 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: sail in her front yard and Rebecca is like, oh, 476 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: I remember this. This is from your little old lady phase. 477 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: And of course Enid like had a phase where she 478 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: was dressing like a little old lady and of course 479 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: Rebecca was there for it. Rebecca has definitely always been 480 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: like the sort of beit a friend. Uh, And it 481 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: is definitely the more colorful of the two. It's definitely 482 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: Enid's story that Rebecca's sort of always been like writing 483 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: sidecar on at a certain point, like they stopped connecting 484 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: or Rebecca realizes that she wants to drive the car, 485 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: and Enid suddenly fits nowhere and she uh, she fulfills 486 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: her fantasy of getting on a bus out of town 487 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: and disappearing because she doesn't know where else to go 488 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: or what else to do. Yeah, And I think those 489 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: are effective themes to explore in terms of like identity 490 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: and where do I belong and who am I? And 491 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: who do I want to be now that I'm freshly 492 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: an adult? And like watching watching them fuck it up, 493 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: and like, you know, you're not ready to be an 494 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: adult because she can't get rid of she can't get 495 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: rid of that toy and the and the whole tag sail. 496 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: She's got ready, she's not ready to move on, but 497 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to go back either. Yeah, and I think, 498 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: I mean, well, here's where the quiz comes in, because 499 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: I imagine that this is you hinted at this, but 500 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: I imagine this is what more the comic books are, 501 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: like a focus on the friendship between Enid and Rebecca. 502 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: To me, a more interesting movie would have been an 503 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: exploration of that kind of deteriorating friendship. And and you know, 504 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: as you grow up, you grow apart, and you you 505 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: discover your interests and your priorities and if they don't 506 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: align with the person you thought was your best friend, 507 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: like how do you reconcile that? And so sad And 508 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: there's like the last panel and that I mean, you're well, 509 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: first of all, you're gonna love the book because the 510 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: book's just like all that and her just sort of 511 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: seeing Rebecca having moved on and saying, like, you've become 512 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: such a beautiful young woman, and it is heartbreaking, like 513 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: to watch a friendship dissolved like that. Um, it's just 514 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: so specific. That is not what the movie is. And 515 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: I do think that a lot of that has to 516 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: do with casting. I think Scarlett your Hands is incredibly talented. 517 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't think that she really breathed that much life 518 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: into this particular character, and so much of that is 519 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: how it's written and directed, obviously, But you get Steve 520 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: Boo semi attached, You're gonna want to hang out with 521 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: Steve Boo semi And also the chemistry between the two 522 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: of them and that relationship being as weird as it was. 523 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: And also I'm coming from a background where I've had 524 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: relationships like that, where I was very precocious and I 525 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: was hanging out with older men that were really interesting 526 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: to me, even though they were nerds and weird and 527 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: didn't fit in. And they were like, why are you 528 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: interested in me? You're so young, and I was like, 529 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: I don't really know. I just I'm looking for a 530 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: friend at this point in my life because I'm I'm 531 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: just trying to figure out where it belongs. I don't 532 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: feel like I belong anywhere. And part of it is 533 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: tied up in sexuality. But another part of it is 534 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: just because you're reconciling something that's that's gone even though 535 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: you need it so badly, and it's like the breakup 536 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: of your best friend and taking these leaps that you're 537 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: just not ready to take. UM. So the movie, like 538 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: I said, it's completely different. Um, I love both of them, 539 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: but everything I think. I think a lot of what 540 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: you're describing can be like met with the comic book. 541 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: It makes me want to check out the because I 542 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: do have like more interest in their friendship than I 543 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: really do. I mean, even though it's like I I 544 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: totally like understand the dynamic that like exists between Enid 545 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: and Seymour, and it's like if you haven't had a 546 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: friendship like that yourself, you know someone who has, and 547 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: it's very complicated and bizarre and worth exploring. But it's 548 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: just the way it takes over this story. And when 549 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: I was doing some research on the production, I guess 550 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: that the way that the writing was split up was 551 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: that Daniel Klaus's focused on writing the friendship portions, and 552 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: then Terry's Wigoff focused on end and Seymour because Seymour 553 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: was kind of an avatar for him. Where like every 554 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: record that Seymour has is Terry's Wygofs record, and like 555 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: he designed Seymour space because it was kind of a 556 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: projection of himself. Yeah, No, Terry's Wygoff is not like 557 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: putting himself out there being like I can tell other 558 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: people's stories. Like he literally holds up a copy of 559 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: Terry's Wygoffs band the Cheap Suit serendads is that one 560 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: any good? And He's like, no, it's a hilarious joke. 561 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: But you know, he's very it's very clear like who 562 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: he is and what he's connected to. But I didn't 563 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't know anything about splitting up the script. That's 564 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: new to me. Yeah, that's uh So the production as 565 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: I was able to find was I mean, obviously the 566 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: collaborated on the final product, and it wasn't like this 567 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: scene was written by Daniel. This scene was written by Terry. 568 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: But as far as like developing the story, those were 569 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of where their focuses lied where I mean, like 570 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: it sounds like Daniel Claus was kind of continuing to 571 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: develop the book portion and then Terry's wage off was 572 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: um expanding on subplot that kind of ends up taking 573 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: up the bulk of the movie and I do. I mean, 574 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: I think their friendship is really complicated, and I what 575 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: what I some things that like resonated with me that 576 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: I like are are in there, and I kind of 577 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: wish were explored a little more. Were like they Rebecca 578 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: and Nina had have this really really close friendship, but 579 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: you still see those like little resentments that pop up 580 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: in a friendship that close, where there are certain moments 581 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: where like Rebecca is being flirted with by someone and 582 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: Enid gets kind of annoyed and like it's like funk this, 583 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm I'm not here for this, and like 584 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: there there's some tension that exists between them. With brad 585 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: Renfro's character, like there's little moments where it felt very 586 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: authentic to like a teen friendship where you're like I 587 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: love you and you're my entire life, but like fuck 588 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: this and like you right now right for like this moment, 589 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm so pit Like that stuff is great, and I 590 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: feel like there's there's kind of a tendency sometimes too 591 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: um flatten out friendships like that and be like girl 592 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: friendships are perfect, they have no flaws there. Blah blah 593 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: blah blah, blah, which is obviously not true, and it 594 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: was cool to see that represented and to see the 595 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: like way you grow apart from people and this like 596 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: really painful, confusing way showed. Yeah. I guess I just 597 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: like I. I guess I just need to read the 598 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: book because that was what I was more interested in. Yeah, 599 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: because instead the movie focuses on The movie quickly shifts 600 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: focus to the relationship between Enid and Seymour, which, um, 601 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back 602 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: to discuss it and we're back. Uh, should we just 603 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: jump into the Steve Bushey staff yes section of the podcast. Yes. 604 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: Someone pointed this out to us on I figure was 605 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: Twitter that, um so, Julie. We used this metric that 606 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: I made up called the bush Emmy test, which is 607 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: basically just, uh, if you sub in a like traditionally 608 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: Honky guy with Steve bush Emmy, is the interaction normal 609 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: or is it way creepier? For example, in the Notebook Yes, 610 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: when Ryan Gosling is heavily pursuing Rachel McAdams and basically 611 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: threatening to kill himself on a ferris wheel unless she 612 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: goes out with him, sub in Steve Bushemy and if 613 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: and if suddenly it's creepy and someone pointed out to it, 614 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: they're like, I think that Ghost World fails this very 615 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: Steve Bushey related test, and um, I'm in client to 616 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: agree this movie. What do you mean, how does it 617 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: fail that? Well? I think that Steve Bushemy in this 618 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: movie is playing a kind of creepy character at times, 619 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: and that it it yes, reads that way. I don't know, 620 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: I think that, yeah. I mean for me, I don't 621 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: know about everybody else. I take a lot of issue 622 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: with this relationship between Enid and um Steve Bush absolutely. 623 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: I mean, look, the last scene is the most humiliating, 624 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: uh retribution that he's like his mother's picking him up 625 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: from therapy and like she's asking him what he wants 626 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 1: for dinner and rolling his eyes and they shut the door. 627 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: That's humiliating. That character gets come up and said, I frankly, like, 628 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: I I love Seymour and I love boussemmys Seymour. I'm 629 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: not saying that like it's okay to like, you know, 630 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: be him and and you know have had sex with Enid. 631 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: But I also like, I don't think he's a I 632 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: don't I don't think he's like a villain by any stretch. 633 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: But I also don't think that the but the movie 634 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: doesn't dodge him being creepy. I think it's like very 635 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: very open about that. Yeah, I guess I I get 636 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: kind of I get kind of lost in how the 637 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: movie where the movie is trying to have you land 638 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: on that, because there are moments where it's obviously like 639 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: Enid fux with a lot of people and manipulates a 640 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: lot of people and makes a ton of mistakes, and 641 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: Seymour is very affected by these manipulative choices she's making. 642 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: But I did feel like the fault fell pretty heavily 643 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: on her of like how dare you be so like 644 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: manipulative towards this sad man as as if like Steve 645 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: Bushemy is not, you know whatever, forty five years old 646 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: in this and can't wait. So you think the movie 647 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: is like cutting him a break for what he's doing. 648 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: I think a little bit to me as well. Yeah, 649 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think he's definitely like a sympathetic character. 650 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: Like I think that. I think that like, as an 651 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: audience member, you're definitely like falling in love with Seymour. 652 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: But that's that in my opinion, because I think this 653 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: is enid story, and she's the protagonist and she's the 654 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: person that you're meant to align with. So when she's 655 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: falling in love with Seymour, you're kind of falling in 656 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: love with Seymour and then you fuck him in the 657 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: next day, you're like, what the fund did I do? 658 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: And then you realize, like, oh my god, he is 659 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: so much older and he doesn't have like the same 660 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: frame of reference to me that like sex could be 661 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: something that's like something that is meaningful, and he takes 662 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: it the wrong way and he gets obsessed, which happened, 663 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: and that just was like, what did I fucked up? Um? 664 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: From her point of view, just knowing that, like he's 665 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: a mess and she's she's like I should have known 666 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: that the whole time. But I don't think she's like 667 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it's saying that she's doing anything wrong 668 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: and that he's like an innocent, vulnerable person necessarily. I 669 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: guess for me, it's not made clear enough one way 670 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,959 Speaker 1: or the other. My whole thing is the age gap here. 671 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: She is presumably eighteen because she's just graduated, although some 672 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: people are still seventeen when they graduate high school. I 673 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: like turned seventeen or I turned eighteen on the day 674 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: that I graduated. So like, either she's barely out of 675 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: high school, her emotional brain is still developing, and then 676 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: she's befriending this man who is that's all her decisions, 677 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: she's she's a leader of that. That's her choice. Yes, 678 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: but I think that if if you're a forty something, 679 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: you're old man and an eighteen year old young woman 680 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: is trying to befriend you and initiates sex with you, 681 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: you got to run the other way. Well, she she 682 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: finally and she finally does at the very end she does, 683 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: but mostly they're just friends and it's like a little 684 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: even so like I don't know, I think I feel 685 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: like it is kind of on And I guess that 686 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: part of where I really started to like Seymour started 687 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: to lose me was when you see his friends as well, 688 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,760 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is just a creepy group, 689 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: like this is but he's better than those guys. When 690 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: that when that do yes, because when that that scene 691 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: with his neighbor who like farted and he was like 692 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: thanks for the talk. Uh yeah, No, I think you're 693 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: setting I think you're setting him up to see like 694 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: he's from this world and there's a lot of people 695 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: around him that can suck. But like, I think, with 696 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: the right like people around him, he could be, as 697 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: you say, like different from the others. I don't know, 698 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: I think when you're a forty year old man, and 699 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: even though like she's arguably cooler than him, and like, 700 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: it's not absolutely right. And it's not as though he 701 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: has like fame or clout that he's exploiting to sleep 702 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,479 Speaker 1: with her. But to me, like with an age gap 703 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: like that, And it's not even the concept of an 704 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: age gap that I take issue with, Like if he 705 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: were fifty and she were, I would notice, but I 706 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't think much of it. It's the fact that she 707 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: is a teenager and her emotional maturity still needs at 708 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: least a few years of development. Like even just looking 709 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: at the way she meets Seymour, she plays this really 710 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,959 Speaker 1: childish and immature prank on him, like that's how they meet, 711 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: and then like yeah, just overall with their current ages 712 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: and that situation, there's an imbalance in that dynamic. There's 713 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: a certain power that comes wouldn't agree more. I think 714 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: that I think the film is totally acknowledges that I yeah, 715 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and like the fact that they don't end 716 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: up together is is better not together. He's he's punished, 717 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: she gets on a death bus maybe who knows what. 718 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: She's not dead, she's not dead. Sheaves town. Yeah, she's disappearing. Yeah, 719 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: I just, I really, I guess. I just I feel 720 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: as though the movie doesn't challenge this relationship enough. I 721 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: think that. And I think that of the reason that 722 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: that may be is because the character that like we're 723 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 1: talking about is a standard for the person making the movie. 724 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: So that maybe one of the reasons that I think 725 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: that Unit is the protagonist. I think that the creators 726 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: aligned with enit for sure. I mean, and it's definitely 727 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: the protagonist. Even so it's I don't know, I still 728 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, even though Unit is the protagony this, 729 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: I just the amount of sympathy that the movie dishes 730 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: out for Seymour was like, but you don't like Seymour 731 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: at all? I do? I do. The thing is like, 732 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: I don't dislike Seymour. I I appreciate the way he's painted. 733 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate that it's made clear that he is an 734 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: insecure guy. He feels like he's at a dead end 735 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 1: in life. He doesn't have a lot of like trying 736 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: to fuck her, like he like that's I think he's 737 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: just like, okay, you're like my friend now, but what 738 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: the hell would she like? It doesn't even occur to him, 739 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: like what would you even want with me? I guess 740 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: that just wasn't my reader it. I I believe that 741 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: they are friends and they have a connection that is 742 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: not explicitly sexual. But I do feel like, like Caitlin, 743 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: like you were saying that it's like him as someone 744 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: who's you know whatever two and a half times or age, 745 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: it's on him to make a clear to not be 746 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: friends with her, Yeah, to not engage it. So he 747 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: shouldn't have been friends with her, really, I think so, 748 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: all right, he's been working at Cook's Chicken for longer 749 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: than she's been alive, Like yeah, but they have something 750 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: in common and they're both incredibly lonely. I don't know. 751 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I've had friendships with people that were much 752 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: older than me at that age, and I didn't feel 753 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: like they were sexually predatory. I felt like I was 754 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: so desperate for connection that I was and and this 755 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: is before the internet. I was looking for people that, 756 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: like I could talk to about anything because I just 757 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: hated everyone so much and the people around me just 758 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: couldn't connect to um, and I wanted to find some 759 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: version of someone that maybe I could one day be. 760 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have an issue with them being 761 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: friends per se, Like I I think that, but where 762 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: the story lands, Like That's why I was so frustrated 763 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: when he does say, Okay, let's have sex. Let's do this, 764 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: because he never really like he resists the whole time, 765 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: like he's like everything she does that's sexual embarrasses him, 766 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: like putting on the mask and that like X rated, 767 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: like video shop and like. But then he still has 768 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: sex with her and says he'll drop everything to you know, 769 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,919 Speaker 1: marry her. So it's like that's because he loses his mind, 770 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: that he loses his mind. So she comes over and 771 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,439 Speaker 1: she's like, have sex with me, and then the next 772 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: morning he like loses his mind. Because I also get 773 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: the sense that Seymour hasn't had sex for like thirty years. 774 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: Well I just I yeah, I guess that if it 775 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: was explicitly like a friendship between an older person and 776 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: a younger person, that you there wasn't a trace of 777 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: sex to be found. I mean, I'm not saying that 778 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 1: older people can't be friends with younger people, like I've 779 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: had older friends when I was a teenager to like, 780 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: that's all good, right, But but the fact that you know, 781 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,280 Speaker 1: for a lot of the movie, I was like, what 782 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: is this friendship? And I was trying to figure out 783 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: what is this friendship? And then where it goes, I 784 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: feel like speaks to the fact that there was something 785 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: vaguely sexual about it the whole time, because that's how 786 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: it pays off. And then all of a sudden he's 787 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: going to drop everything to stay. He loses his mind. 788 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: He but he loses his mind. He pays the price 789 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: for it, for sure. I do. Yeah, But Jamie, I 790 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: think you're like there's always some like sexual undercurrent with 791 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: just with the fact that she's like, I'm gonna help 792 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: you find a girlfriend. Yeah, bring me to this sex shop. 793 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: No one is, like I wanted to go forever and 794 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: no one's been able to take me. Which does that 795 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: imply that she's not old enough to go into a 796 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: sex shop, Like, I don't know, when you were a teenager, 797 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: didn't you want to go into those sex shops and 798 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,280 Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, I can't believe this dildo 799 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: and like laugh about it with your friend. Yeah, well 800 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: that's kind of why. Again, I was like, oh, I 801 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: wish that there was more Enid and Rebecca because Rebecca 802 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: is so frustrated when like Rebecca's like, wait, you went 803 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: without me, and it's like, yeah, well I used to 804 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: try to do that ship together. Yeah, and they're not connecting. Yeah, 805 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: that's something that I totally did with my friends and 806 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: like totally but it's like Steve, you know, it's a 807 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: it's on. It's again. It's like Seymour is the adult 808 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: in this situation and he doesn't have to be the 809 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: guy that's like, oh no, this is so awkward for me, 810 00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: but I guess I'll go in. It's like he has 811 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: to be the one to draw the boundary, I guess, 812 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: and he doesn't have the ability to do it. I understand. 813 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: I've seen like uh and that this is not an excuse, 814 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: but like I've seen so much worse. But like it's 815 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: the power. The power balance between the two of them 816 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: is way more fluid than it is in something like Manhattan. Sure, 817 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: and she's definitely like the higher status partner the whole time, 818 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: and I do and I and I don't want to 819 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,360 Speaker 1: sound like shitty, but like she I think she definitely 820 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,959 Speaker 1: comes over and like kisses him, like I'm not gonna 821 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: say like seduces him as much as she decides when 822 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: she goes over there, I'm going to kiss him. I'm 823 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: going to like, I want to make out with Seymour. 824 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: That's to me. There's no question that she shows up 825 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: and that's where she is at. And I don't think 826 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: he would have ever initiated that with her. I really 827 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: don't sure she does. UM initiate basically every aspect of 828 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: their relationship. Um. Even so, just the whole the the imbalance, 829 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: even though it's not necessarily that exploitative, arguably on his 830 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: and there's still a just you know, the experience and 831 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: the wisdom and the perceptions you gain along the way 832 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: of being older. And he has that and she doesn't. 833 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: And there's no substitute. She can't read a book or 834 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: you know, listen to a record and then suddenly be 835 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,800 Speaker 1: wiser like she had like she he has. They hadn't fucked. 836 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: Would you be fine with it? I would be better 837 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: with it, um. But the fact that they end up 838 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: having sex. It's like just Enid not knowing that it's 839 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: a bad idea to pursue this man as a potential 840 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: romantic partner that's like twenty plus years older than her 841 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: when she is again just freshly graduated from high school. 842 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: Like that is proof that she doesn't have the wisdom 843 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: and experience and emotional maturity that she would need to 844 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: be his equal. And why doesn't seemore think it's a 845 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: bad idea to be hanging out with a teenager well 846 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: lonely and wants to feel cool and all this stuff. Well, 847 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: and she's also very persistent, like it's very clear that 848 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: she won't leave him alone. But I don't know when 849 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: anytime she was like take me to the sex shop. 850 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: Let's girlfriend, Let's get you a girlfriend, Let's get you. 851 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: And he should have been like this is inappropriate. We 852 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: need to draw a boundary here, and the fact that 853 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: it just Seymour should have also drawn that boundary, like 854 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: before he moved in with his mom again, Like I 855 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: mean I did, I did. Like that they show at 856 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 1: the end that he like realizes that you know, he 857 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,439 Speaker 1: had cross the line, he had reached this low point 858 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: and at least responds to that by being like, I 859 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: have to get help, I need to make changes in 860 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: my life like that. Yeah, that never happens in movies. 861 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: And seeing a man in therapy and a movie is incredible, 862 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: Like you don't see it a lot. Yeah, but that 863 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: stuff with the mom and the therapist is really mean, 864 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: Like I think it's really cruel. I don't know. I 865 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: mean she's just there to like pick him up from 866 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: this therapy appointment, and maybe she has some boundary issues, 867 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: but like I didn't that none of that struck me 868 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: as like being that cruel. I guess Rebecca is the 869 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: only person in the movie that doesn't have boundary issues. 870 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: She's she's very clear with her boundaries, even with Enid, 871 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 1: where she's just like are we doing this or are 872 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: we not? And like stop being a flake. And if 873 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: you're going to keep being a flake, I can't be 874 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: in this friendship anymore. Right, Yeah, she's a grown up 875 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: in that way. She's Yeah, she's I mean, I guess 876 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: we don't really know that much about her life and 877 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: we don't really know like what the reasons may be 878 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,360 Speaker 1: for why she is growing up and maturing very differently 879 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: than her friend. Um, but she's she's the only person 880 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: in the movie with boundaries. I don't know. Yeah, that 881 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 1: that friendship felt very I mean, it's definitely strange and 882 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: that you know, not none of us are calling that 883 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: into question. I just feel like Steve Bushemi's character is 884 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,280 Speaker 1: lent even though he doesn't have a happy ending per se. 885 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: I feel like, because I don't know that, the amount 886 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:57,720 Speaker 1: of sympathy that the movie extended to him, I thought was, uh, strange. 887 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,879 Speaker 1: Everyone has an unhappy ending, scept maybe Rebecca. We don't 888 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: really know. Yeah, she goes and buy, she goes to Ikea, 889 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: she buys her plastic cups. She she's working at Starbucks, 890 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 1: which brings me to, you know, just a few things 891 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 1: that we have to call out in terms of language 892 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: that gets used, comments that get made that are super reductive. 893 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean, the the R word gets said several times 894 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: throughout the movie. Very two thousand one, Very two thousand one. 895 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: You've got your Rebecca saying that a man in the 896 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: wheelchair doesn't even need that wheel chair, that he's totally 897 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: just lazy, you know, like making accusations like that. There's 898 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 1: some weird there's like a yeah, they're definitely not the 899 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: so just you know, very of the time. I mean, 900 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:52,360 Speaker 1: who was a woke team in two thousand one? Yeah? Uh? 901 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other final thoughts? Um? I want 902 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: you guys to ask me more questions because I think 903 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: I've such a different like notion of this, but I 904 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: don't know where to do it. Um, you know what 905 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: I mean? Well, what are your thoughts on it? Like, 906 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: what are your feelings? I love it. I think it's 907 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: an amazing movie. Like I relate to it so powerfully 908 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 1: as a as a human woman. Like I think that 909 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: like Enid is like one of the best characters of 910 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: all time. I've like, there have been so few times 911 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: when I've seen myself on screen the way that I 912 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: see myself with Enid. And I remember, like even my 913 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: mom when that came out, was like, oh my god, 914 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,760 Speaker 1: like that was what you were coming from, Like there 915 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,839 Speaker 1: was just something. So I just I think that Enid 916 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: is such a three dimensional character. I think her, like 917 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: I totally get her all the stuff that you were 918 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,839 Speaker 1: saying about them not being woke, Like that's her trying 919 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 1: to figure out what funny is and like trying to 920 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: be shocking and like and then and then like you know, 921 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,879 Speaker 1: kind of pressing the boundaries of it. And then she 922 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 1: meets with that like Pat Healy character who's like in 923 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,400 Speaker 1: the subculture, but he's a piece of ship because he's 924 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: got all those ti Semitic jokes, and she's like, oh wait, no, 925 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: funk that guy. That guy sucks. I'm not that guy. 926 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: And she's kind of like dipping her toe into different subcultures. 927 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: And in my that and my that, they live in 928 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 1: the suburbs, they live in hell. You know. They like 929 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: they decide like one day to like follow the Satanist 930 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,759 Speaker 1: couple and like that's a day um or or just 931 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: like you know that they're wat they're googn on that 932 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,879 Speaker 1: stand up comedian and they're like, instead of like that's 933 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,200 Speaker 1: a loser, they're like, we should marry him. Like they're like, 934 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 1: he sucks. I want to fuck him. That that ship. 935 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:34,320 Speaker 1: There's so much specificity to that that I've never seen before. 936 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: And um, it's just like I just think it speaks 937 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: so uh. It's like as clear as a bell to 938 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,640 Speaker 1: like mentally, where you are when you are stuck and 939 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,839 Speaker 1: you are trapped and your best you and your best 940 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: friend are going through ship and you don't know what 941 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,200 Speaker 1: to do I just I've just never seen a character 942 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: like that that I've connected with on that level, especially 943 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,880 Speaker 1: because so many teen movies of that era, especially like 944 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,280 Speaker 1: the late nineties, but even into the you know, early 945 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,520 Speaker 1: and mid two thousand's, they were these stories that are 946 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,000 Speaker 1: usually about like a teen girl having some kind of 947 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,399 Speaker 1: like sex bet against her or a prom like oh, 948 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,480 Speaker 1: I bet you can't turn this girl into a prom queen, 949 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,240 Speaker 1: or you know, some other horribly manipulative thing that often 950 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,759 Speaker 1: would strip any agency away from the female character the 951 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: teen girls. So the fact that this story does give 952 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: these characters a lot of agency, does explore their interior 953 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,479 Speaker 1: lives more than a lot of other teen movies were doing. 954 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,959 Speaker 1: And this movie, these characters subvert some of that stuff. Yeah. 955 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,640 Speaker 1: I like that they're they're like given given the space 956 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,400 Speaker 1: and like agency to like make mistakes, which they do constantly, 957 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,839 Speaker 1: which is what teenagers do constantly. I like that, like 958 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: one of them has to get a job. You never 959 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: see that in a teen movie, where usually it's just 960 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: like yeah, there. It's it's a lot easier to put 961 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,320 Speaker 1: a teen movie in an affluent neighborhood so that the 962 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,160 Speaker 1: plot can just happen and no one has to go 963 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 1: do something to survive. Like, there are aspects of this 964 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 1: movie that I'm like, you know, it's it's way more 965 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: than you're getting from teen movies at this time, specifically, 966 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: and as I think a bigger it's bigger than a 967 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: teen movie. The blues hammer scene is super funny that 968 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: I liked that. Yeah, sure, I just mean like teen 969 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: movies and it revolves around teenagers. And I was just 970 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 1: gonna say also that, like I think it subverts the 971 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,359 Speaker 1: Bechtel stuff because when Seymour is like, oh, she's in 972 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,080 Speaker 1: love with Josh, it's like ENA's head could not be 973 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,520 Speaker 1: further away from Josh. Like even the even the fact 974 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,760 Speaker 1: that like Rebecca may or may not be like dating, 975 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Like ENA's not thinking about Josh En. 976 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 1: It's thinking about like what the fund is she gonna do? 977 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,359 Speaker 1: Who the fund is? She doesn't have her art scholarship. 978 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: She like doesn't know, you know, where her place in 979 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,680 Speaker 1: the world is. She has one friend that it's Seymour. 980 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 1: She's like she talks about being horny as hell and 981 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,280 Speaker 1: like not knowing where to put it, and she wants 982 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,239 Speaker 1: to make this like mistake and then she doesn't know 983 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,560 Speaker 1: what else to do. But the in other words, the 984 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: idea that like those two were you know, and you 985 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: mentioned before about the two of them talking about josh En. 986 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: It's not jealous because Rebecca's hanging out with josh En. 987 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: It's jealous of Josh like she wants to hang out 988 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,359 Speaker 1: with Rebecca. Seymour is obviously more important. And I love 989 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 1: that line when Rebecca is just like, I'm so sick 990 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,440 Speaker 1: of Seymour because he is getting in the way and 991 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,759 Speaker 1: she is seeing her friend disappear. But also like I 992 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,200 Speaker 1: feel like en has always been like that and Rebecca 993 00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,160 Speaker 1: has changed, but that's because the movie aligns you with 994 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: Enid to see from Enid's point of view, that's like, 995 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,720 Speaker 1: oh you've changed, you both changed, but the situation has changed. 996 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,400 Speaker 1: And to have to figure out what to do with 997 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: that when the world is like hell and you're trying 998 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,760 Speaker 1: to choose between like oh, like there's this like weird 999 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: old guy and I do there's so many things in 1000 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,920 Speaker 1: that where they're just like so beautifully stated, where he's 1001 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 1: like do you like him? Is he a nerds? Like? Well, 1002 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,120 Speaker 1: he is sort of like the exact opposite of everything 1003 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 1: I hate, you know, just his like I do hate Sports, 1004 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,439 Speaker 1: and then him in traffic I have some more kids, 1005 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,440 Speaker 1: why don't you. Yeah, I don't know, like I've just 1006 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 1: I've never I've never really like seen myself quite so 1007 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 1: vividly on screen as I have in this, especially like 1008 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 1: from that I guess point in my life. Yeah. I 1009 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: also like the kind of there's almost this idea of 1010 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: like the inevitability of selling out is something, at least 1011 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,440 Speaker 1: for some of the characters, where like, you know, we 1012 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,759 Speaker 1: have yeah growing up, right, growing up means to sell 1013 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: out because you have to have a job to support yourself. Yeah. 1014 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,879 Speaker 1: But like there's that one character who she's i think 1015 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 1: buying VHS tapes from or something, and he's really awful 1016 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,719 Speaker 1: to her, and then he says something like, oh, you 1017 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: want to like take down society, go to business school 1018 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 1: and you know, work with a job at a corporation 1019 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,359 Speaker 1: and take them down from the inside. That's what I'm 1020 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:59,719 Speaker 1: gonna do. And like that's like that mentality of just 1021 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, participate in capitalism to the fullest extent, 1022 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,759 Speaker 1: and that's how we're going to get rid of it. 1023 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,239 Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, it's just like so many different shades of 1024 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,320 Speaker 1: nightmare around her, Like you could be this nightmare person, 1025 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,960 Speaker 1: you could be this horror show. So yeah, I don't. 1026 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,759 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, I'm so I like that, I'm 1027 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,640 Speaker 1: I guess I kind of appreciate that I'm conflicted about 1028 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,799 Speaker 1: certain aspects of of Enid and of Rebecca because it's 1029 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,200 Speaker 1: like I respect the hell out of Enid's like commitment 1030 00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 1: to being like I'm not going to participate in all 1031 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: of this bullshit, and also that the movie pretty clearly 1032 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,120 Speaker 1: illustrates like, well, then you're just going to be pretty 1033 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: lost if you're if you're not willing to have a job, 1034 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,440 Speaker 1: if you're not willing to put in an effort, and 1035 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,120 Speaker 1: if your disillusion with everything, you're left with very few 1036 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,280 Speaker 1: options of how to live your left fucked, you're broken, 1037 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,920 Speaker 1: You're you're alone, and you're also funcked if you do participate, 1038 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,319 Speaker 1: which is what we see through Rebecca of like she's 1039 00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,400 Speaker 1: playing the game, but she's not totally happy. Well, I 1040 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,239 Speaker 1: don't know if she's fucked as much as he's just 1041 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:01,880 Speaker 1: kind of grown up in a specific way that A 1042 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,720 Speaker 1: it hasn't you know, that's where she's like, you've changed. 1043 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,440 Speaker 1: It's it's just that Rebecca can like move forward and 1044 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 1: needed can in that particular way. She's a different kind 1045 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 1: of person. They're just different kinds of people. They met 1046 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,080 Speaker 1: each other's needs for the time that they were together, 1047 00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,240 Speaker 1: but it's time to move on, and it's just heartbreaking. 1048 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,040 Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking, and I just again, I just wish that 1049 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,959 Speaker 1: the story was more about their characters and their friends 1050 00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,840 Speaker 1: who love the book. Yeah, so exciting. I'm serious, I'm serious. 1051 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,120 Speaker 1: It is one of my favorite I I just love 1052 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,080 Speaker 1: these characters so much. I love the book, I love 1053 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,120 Speaker 1: the movie, and thora Birch is so great. She's awesome, 1054 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: she's amazing, and she's a teenager playing a teenager, which 1055 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,560 Speaker 1: never happened. Then, Like, there is not a shred of 1056 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:49,840 Speaker 1: inauthenticity to anything she does in that movie, even just 1057 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,120 Speaker 1: the way she carries her body, the way she like 1058 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: tries to figure out, like this my look now, like 1059 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 1: the green hair, and then someone insults her for the 1060 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: green hair, so then she does I And those moments too, 1061 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 1: were her whole, like her whole thing that she'll tell 1062 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: you is like I don't care about fitting in like 1063 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,880 Speaker 1: funck this blah blah blah, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. 1064 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,160 Speaker 1: But then she is very insecure and very sensitive because teenage, like, 1065 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: it's like she's she doesn't know who she is. She 1066 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,200 Speaker 1: wants to be accepted somewhere, but if there is pushbacks 1067 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,960 Speaker 1: on trying, Yeah, she's absolutely trying to find a soul 1068 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,760 Speaker 1: mate because she lost so much with Rebecca and Seymour 1069 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,560 Speaker 1: is the closest thing. But it can't work. Can't work, 1070 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,720 Speaker 1: can't work, doesn't work, can't work. So I was interested 1071 00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,480 Speaker 1: in because this is like such a cult classic of like, 1072 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,080 Speaker 1: were there any other endings? Was their studio interference? What 1073 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 1: was the whole situation there? And there was a fair amount. 1074 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,600 Speaker 1: So part of what I found out is that, yes, 1075 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,600 Speaker 1: why Goff was focused on developing the Seymour and Enid 1076 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,240 Speaker 1: storyline where Cloud's focused on the Enid and Rebecca storylined. 1077 00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 1: But I also found out a lot. I guess part 1078 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,080 Speaker 1: of the reason that ends up not being in the 1079 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 1: final script as much is because uh Thora Birch was 1080 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: I guess legally an adult when they were shooting it, 1081 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,600 Speaker 1: and Scarlett Johansen was only fifteen, so she's only fifteen 1082 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,080 Speaker 1: when this movie is shot, so she, like WHOA, couldn't 1083 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,560 Speaker 1: physically be there as much, so they had to plan 1084 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,480 Speaker 1: around the fact, like I guess her storyline got pared 1085 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,920 Speaker 1: down partially just logistically, like kids can only be on 1086 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,959 Speaker 1: set for a certain amount of time of day. So 1087 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,640 Speaker 1: that's wild that they would cast an even younger because 1088 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,440 Speaker 1: normally they're casting, you know, twenty nine year olds to 1089 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,920 Speaker 1: play eighteen year olds. That's wild that they cast someone 1090 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:41,040 Speaker 1: a few years younger than the character's age. Okay, um. 1091 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 1: And in one version of the ending, Zwagov had Seymour 1092 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,920 Speaker 1: died by suicide at the end of the movie, but 1093 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,160 Speaker 1: that got written out as well, and then the studio 1094 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,480 Speaker 1: This one made me laugh that that was like, there 1095 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,040 Speaker 1: has to be a ridiculous studio suggestion, And the studio 1096 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: suggestion was that the movie ends in a double wedding 1097 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:04,600 Speaker 1: where Enid Mary Seymour and Rebecca Mary's Josh, which I 1098 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: think was pitch. That was a studio pitch, and then 1099 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:12,480 Speaker 1: they were just like absolutely not, which good Chris. Yeah, 1100 01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,680 Speaker 1: So that did make me appreciate at least that, like, 1101 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this was not an easy movie to make. 1102 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 1: It took a long time to get produced, and no 1103 01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: one ends happy, which is obviously, like I mean, a 1104 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,520 Speaker 1: really unusual thing to be able to get past a 1105 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,680 Speaker 1: studio Anyways, it's like all these people are deeply flawed 1106 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: and kind of sunk in a lot of ways, and 1107 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,800 Speaker 1: no one ends up particularly happy, which is just, you know, 1108 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,280 Speaker 1: uncomfortably close to what real life is like. Um so 1109 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And the double wedding ending suggestion is 1110 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,520 Speaker 1: very funny to me, because what what a typical studio note? 1111 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,560 Speaker 1: What right now? They're like, what if they all just 1112 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: got married at the end. There's a studio ever known 1113 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,800 Speaker 1: what's good for a story, or ever known what an 1114 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,200 Speaker 1: audience actually wants. Like I feel like, Noah, I don't know. 1115 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,640 Speaker 1: I want to mention that I disagree with you about 1116 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: the ROBERTA the Art Teacher character. Um I think that 1117 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,520 Speaker 1: like as a comic actress, like that's like Mana from Heaven, 1118 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: like Ileana Douglas had so much to do. That character 1119 01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:19,920 Speaker 1: is so funny when she shows that short film Mirror Father, 1120 01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,720 Speaker 1: and then at the end, if you watch the credits, 1121 01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 1: like her parents are like the producers and like it 1122 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,800 Speaker 1: keeps repeating like her last name. It's like special thanks 1123 01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,920 Speaker 1: to like produced, and it's like so clear that like 1124 01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: her parents funded it and she's not just like they're 1125 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,720 Speaker 1: not just taking pot shots at the Tampa and a 1126 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,280 Speaker 1: teacup thing, like they make fun of that that guy 1127 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,520 Speaker 1: like with the who had the like clearly like serial killer. 1128 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,120 Speaker 1: That's like and then it's like and there's that scene 1129 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,240 Speaker 1: that ends with like I know that this is Philips 1130 01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,800 Speaker 1: or whatever it is short, So like, yeah, there's definitely 1131 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,080 Speaker 1: like a lot of comedy and like those art school 1132 01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,560 Speaker 1: scenes that I think are like beyond you know, just 1133 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,960 Speaker 1: like goofing on feminist. Sure, a lot of basically all 1134 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,160 Speaker 1: the art gets made fun of. Um also just shout 1135 01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 1: out to mirror father mir which I'm sure is a 1136 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,160 Speaker 1: feminist text um over. Sure. Yeah, I mean that's that 1137 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,120 Speaker 1: those I mean those points about like rich art kid 1138 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 1: nepotism ship, Like I love that ship. That's like I 1139 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,160 Speaker 1: wish they was it was more focused on that. And 1140 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,200 Speaker 1: Aleana Douglas does an amazing job in that role. I 1141 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 1: don't know, there's just some certain points of it. I'm 1142 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,960 Speaker 1: just like why you know why that aspect um? Well, 1143 01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:35,520 Speaker 1: that brings us to a conversation with a friend of 1144 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:42,360 Speaker 1: the cast past guest on our Space Jam episode brilliant writer, 1145 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: all around terrific person, Princess Weeks. Hello, Hi guys, Hi guys, 1146 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:52,800 Speaker 1: thank you for having me on again. Welcome backs. So 1147 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: we wanted to hear your thoughts kind of just general 1148 01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,040 Speaker 1: thoughts overall about the movie, but to start just kind 1149 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:06,880 Speaker 1: of focusing specifically on how you felt the movie handled 1150 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:12,440 Speaker 1: race so terribly. Um, I just I found it was 1151 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,920 Speaker 1: so weird because I literally wrote in my notes the 1152 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,720 Speaker 1: coon's chicken thing is weird af because it feels so 1153 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,880 Speaker 1: arbitrarily put in there to just give sort of like 1154 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,920 Speaker 1: a third act conflict to the story, and not something 1155 01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:30,200 Speaker 1: that felt very organically put in, especially because the cast 1156 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,600 Speaker 1: itself is so white that it's like there is no 1157 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: black opinion except for that one girl who's like it's 1158 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,480 Speaker 1: not cool, you know, at and during the during the 1159 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:45,320 Speaker 1: art presentation, and it just feels so ignorant. And there's 1160 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,440 Speaker 1: a larger conversation that could be had about that, because 1161 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,480 Speaker 1: I know, just recently we had a conversation about like 1162 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 1: Aunt Jemima. I know, like in Lovecraft Country, which is 1163 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,840 Speaker 1: airing right now. Even in the first episode, you see 1164 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,440 Speaker 1: the Aunt Jemima poster in just the position to a 1165 01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,680 Speaker 1: bunch of like white it's mocking black people. So there 1166 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,800 Speaker 1: is like a very big history of like racist character 1167 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,280 Speaker 1: ritures in the way that that you know, um, the 1168 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:15,000 Speaker 1: United States, Canada, UK have done food products, but like, 1169 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,840 Speaker 1: Eden is not a character who who cares about that 1170 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,480 Speaker 1: kind of stuff exactly. She's not even like a Daria type, 1171 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,480 Speaker 1: because I know people have compared like this to Daria, 1172 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,080 Speaker 1: but Daria would actually care. Daria would at least she 1173 01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:29,880 Speaker 1: would read she has the pretensive care she's like, or 1174 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,600 Speaker 1: would at least act Jody to be like, Hey, Jody, 1175 01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 1: do you want to like tag team on this. This 1176 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,919 Speaker 1: just seems like Ena trying to get out of doing 1177 01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,600 Speaker 1: a project, which is weird because she already is an artist, 1178 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,440 Speaker 1: so I don't really know why she needs to like 1179 01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,600 Speaker 1: literally be like I found this art and put it 1180 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:48,160 Speaker 1: in an art show. It's it's so arbitrary, it's so weird, 1181 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:54,360 Speaker 1: it's clumsy, and it only serves to put Steve Bushmi's 1182 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: character Seymour and Eat it in a position of conflict 1183 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,919 Speaker 1: for like five minutes. It's really useless. Yeah, because it's 1184 01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,360 Speaker 1: like you said, Enid is this white woman who, as 1185 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:12,240 Speaker 1: far as we know, doesn't seem to care about racial 1186 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,160 Speaker 1: injustice or racism. She just finds this image and she's like, oh, 1187 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,560 Speaker 1: this will actually help me get a leg up in 1188 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,080 Speaker 1: my art class because she basically brings it in because 1189 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 1: her teacher has been saying you need to be more 1190 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,520 Speaker 1: provocative and political with your art, and she's like, oh, 1191 01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,720 Speaker 1: well that this might do that. And she goes like 1192 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,240 Speaker 1: full like Richard Prince and she's like, you didn't do anything. 1193 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,840 Speaker 1: This is someone else's work. But does it make you 1194 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: feel like it's just And it's so weird because it's 1195 01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: like they established her getting called, you know, anti semitic slurs, 1196 01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,800 Speaker 1: so it's like, why wouldn't that connect to it or 1197 01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,280 Speaker 1: why wouldn't she have anything else to pull from it? Yeah, 1198 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,480 Speaker 1: because it feels like she brings it in just to 1199 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,320 Speaker 1: like show up that other girl in her class who's 1200 01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,520 Speaker 1: been bringing in all that provocative art. And it's just 1201 01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: like so you're just just like no real conversation, like 1202 01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:07,560 Speaker 1: no it. I guess watching certain scenes back, you're just like, 1203 01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:10,560 Speaker 1: I does the movie think. She's like it seems like 1204 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the movie generally comes down on her side of like, yeah, 1205 01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: you know what, this was a cool thing to have done, 1206 01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 1: and the art because the art teacher has already been 1207 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,880 Speaker 1: set up as like this cartoon and has already been 1208 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,600 Speaker 1: set up. It's like, this is not someone you need 1209 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:29,800 Speaker 1: to take seriously her approval, and like, I don't, I 1210 01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,920 Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it it's such a mess in 1211 01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:35,080 Speaker 1: the way that it's presented, and Princess, like you were saying, 1212 01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,600 Speaker 1: there's no there's no black character in this movie. Who 1213 01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:43,240 Speaker 1: isn't an unnamed student or an unnamed parent to like 1214 01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,600 Speaker 1: provide any sort of comment on this that would be relevant. 1215 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,640 Speaker 1: Like it's just so bizarre. I don't know. Sometimes you 1216 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,000 Speaker 1: watch a movie and you're like, this is two thousand's 1217 01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,640 Speaker 1: and like, you know, I was like, oh, first four 1218 01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,280 Speaker 1: minutes we getting our word, we get some casual able 1219 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,440 Speaker 1: ism and how we frame rings, you know, Like just 1220 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like it's just so hard 1221 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,720 Speaker 1: because she's always saying these weird homophobic things, like when 1222 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,960 Speaker 1: she's like, oh, yeah, we're gonna have to get checked 1223 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 1: for AIDS after he this girl gets date raped, and 1224 01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,600 Speaker 1: just like what is this for? And it feels so 1225 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,640 Speaker 1: of that era, you know what. This This movie made 1226 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:20,880 Speaker 1: me think of two movies that I felt like, Book 1227 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,080 Speaker 1: Smart and Jennifer's Body, because book Smart, I think is 1228 01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:28,240 Speaker 1: very much like the like great, great, great grand aunt 1229 01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,480 Speaker 1: of like like you know, the centate of this kind 1230 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,919 Speaker 1: of film because it's like two women who are like 1231 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,760 Speaker 1: not popular but still interact. But I think book smart 1232 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,600 Speaker 1: again because it's you know, written by women, I believe 1233 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:41,520 Speaker 1: directed by a woman. It's like you get more of 1234 01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 1: this intimacy of like a friendship. Like when it comes 1235 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,520 Speaker 1: down to it, eat, it spends more time with Steve 1236 01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 1: Bushemy than she does with Rebecca, so I really have 1237 01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,800 Speaker 1: no context for why they're friends. Besides, they're both just 1238 01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,200 Speaker 1: mean and that doesn't that's not a personality. And it's 1239 01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,000 Speaker 1: like with Jennifer's body, you know it again written direct 1240 01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:01,920 Speaker 1: by women. Not a perfect film in terms of like 1241 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,880 Speaker 1: the dialogue. All the dialogue is very dated, but you 1242 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,240 Speaker 1: get like a very intimate look at the friendship and 1243 01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,840 Speaker 1: tension between these two girls going into these different transitions 1244 01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,800 Speaker 1: in their life. Like there's just they're just not enough 1245 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 1: time spent with these two young girls transitioning to this 1246 01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,200 Speaker 1: new phase of life for me to feel like this 1247 01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,400 Speaker 1: is like really about them. Like I did not realize 1248 01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,280 Speaker 1: how much Steve buy was going to be in this 1249 01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,160 Speaker 1: movie because like all you ever see is like Scarlet 1250 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,920 Speaker 1: Johansson and Enid, and I'm just like, but it's not 1251 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:35,519 Speaker 1: about them, And I found that to be really disappointing. Yeah, yeah, 1252 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,400 Speaker 1: I was. I was curious about your feelings on that 1253 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,760 Speaker 1: friendship too, because we have had i mean, like a 1254 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,760 Speaker 1: lot of discussion about that as well of uh, like 1255 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,120 Speaker 1: I you know, when I was younger, I definitely had 1256 01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,320 Speaker 1: friends with older people, but it was I don't know, 1257 01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:58,560 Speaker 1: just the gray areas of that relationship did There's endless discussion, 1258 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,519 Speaker 1: But I was curious on what you're what your take 1259 01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,080 Speaker 1: on that was. It's like I have like two brains 1260 01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,600 Speaker 1: about it, Like I have like honestly like my my 1261 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:08,800 Speaker 1: my feminist brain, and then I have like my just 1262 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,559 Speaker 1: storytelling brain, and like as a storytelling device. I think 1263 01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,280 Speaker 1: that it's handled in a way that I think is 1264 01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:19,080 Speaker 1: as respectful as it can be for something so like 1265 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,639 Speaker 1: odd like I think that they do a good job 1266 01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,120 Speaker 1: of not having Seymour be predatory, and like how he 1267 01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,400 Speaker 1: treats Enid. I feel like, for the most part throughout 1268 01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:34,200 Speaker 1: their relationship, he's very respectful of Enid, like and even 1269 01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:37,240 Speaker 1: and even with Dana when he's like stopped hanging out 1270 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,320 Speaker 1: with it, I'm like he's doing a lot of the 1271 01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,000 Speaker 1: right things, but my feminist brain has a problem with 1272 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 1: it because then it's putting all of the autonomy of 1273 01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:49,480 Speaker 1: instigating the sexual relationship on Enid, who is like eighteen 1274 01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:54,680 Speaker 1: max because she just graduated high school, who is like drinking, 1275 01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,679 Speaker 1: who is like I feel like there's like it's Steve 1276 01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,680 Speaker 1: Bushemi's character who should be getting these boundaries, Like when 1277 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,360 Speaker 1: Dana comes in and it's like, why are you friends 1278 01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:08,320 Speaker 1: with someone this young? It's a legitimate question, you know, 1279 01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,519 Speaker 1: like why are you friends with someone this young? And 1280 01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,679 Speaker 1: like I can't, Like I've had relationships with much older men, 1281 01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,120 Speaker 1: and like, do I think that all of them were correct? No, 1282 01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:19,840 Speaker 1: And I think that it's one of those things where 1283 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,200 Speaker 1: if it was like this wasn't that she did and 1284 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:24,240 Speaker 1: we had more time to even spend with her being 1285 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,160 Speaker 1: like I regret it. I rushed into this thinking that 1286 01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,400 Speaker 1: I was being empowered, but I really wasn't, because I 1287 01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm just with him because I need to feel something 1288 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,400 Speaker 1: with somebody that would be interesting. But instead, because Steve 1289 01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,600 Speaker 1: Bushemy like gets fired and he's sad about it, it 1290 01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,760 Speaker 1: becomes all about her having to go and say, like 1291 01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,280 Speaker 1: I think that you're great you're my hero, and I'm like, girl, 1292 01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:51,240 Speaker 1: what I just it becomes all about her uplifting him 1293 01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,800 Speaker 1: and like making him feel better. That like even the 1294 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:58,479 Speaker 1: things that could be interesting about exploring this relationship between 1295 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,559 Speaker 1: them is really Emma did because it's all about him. Yeah, 1296 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,320 Speaker 1: it's it is like a very bizarre treatment of the 1297 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,479 Speaker 1: I don't know, like we we sort of discussed kind 1298 01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,320 Speaker 1: of the mindset you're talking about, like being both minds 1299 01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,920 Speaker 1: about it, Like it doesn't make I don't know, I 1300 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. This movie is difficult, 1301 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: and I think also, like he said, like it's not 1302 01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,120 Speaker 1: there are so many things in the movie where I'm like, 1303 01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,800 Speaker 1: if we could just spend more time with Enid in 1304 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:32,400 Speaker 1: this moment, it would be so much more meaningful. I think, 1305 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 1: like she spends all this time trying to get see 1306 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,960 Speaker 1: Moore a date, which girl, why I don't understand, and 1307 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,040 Speaker 1: then like he does with someone who she doesn't approve of, 1308 01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,479 Speaker 1: and then instantly she's like jealous, but she doesn't do 1309 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:45,960 Speaker 1: what does it have the default to you having sex 1310 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,800 Speaker 1: with a much older man? Like why why does it 1311 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,759 Speaker 1: have Why can't you just just go on that bus 1312 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,560 Speaker 1: without having to cross that line or maybe even do 1313 01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,080 Speaker 1: it just be a kiss? Why does it have to 1314 01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,280 Speaker 1: be sex? You know, like why does it have to 1315 01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: be that thing? Which like and have it be her 1316 01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,640 Speaker 1: who's like not even discussed it, just like, oh, I 1317 01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:05,240 Speaker 1: rushed into this, and he's like, so you're going to 1318 01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:07,479 Speaker 1: move in with me? And and it frames him to 1319 01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,360 Speaker 1: be the victim and so much of that. And I'm 1320 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,960 Speaker 1: not saying that he's a villain, but I am saying 1321 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:18,000 Speaker 1: that he is old enough to have better judgment about 1322 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,280 Speaker 1: what this relationship is, you know, like even if they 1323 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,120 Speaker 1: are going to have sex, I think he really genuinely 1324 01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:25,200 Speaker 1: believes that she's going to move in with him or 1325 01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,640 Speaker 1: that he's going to break up with his like appropriate 1326 01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,040 Speaker 1: girl friend to be like you know what I mean, 1327 01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,439 Speaker 1: it's just like you do. Just I'm like, I do 1328 01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,360 Speaker 1: wish that she had someone in allowed to talk to 1329 01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,920 Speaker 1: who wasn't Steve Bushemy in this moment. And then the 1330 01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,519 Speaker 1: Steve Busheny character, I don't know, I feel like there's 1331 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,920 Speaker 1: a lot of even like the details around Steve Bushey's 1332 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,840 Speaker 1: character where you know, Seymour is like, you know, I 1333 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,599 Speaker 1: don't think an aggressively bad person, but he he gets 1334 01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,479 Speaker 1: away with a lot, including kind of ending up with 1335 01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,240 Speaker 1: this victim narrative when he is friends with a teenage 1336 01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,400 Speaker 1: girl and knee to be the adult in this situation, 1337 01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:07,000 Speaker 1: and then in the same way when he is like, 1338 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:09,599 Speaker 1: I don't know just the way that he is, like 1339 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,160 Speaker 1: he has this racist art at his house, he loves 1340 01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:15,760 Speaker 1: black music and and is like hanging out with all 1341 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,040 Speaker 1: his old guy white friends, and there's there's no self 1342 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:22,800 Speaker 1: awareness around that. There's no real accountability applied to him 1343 01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: in terms of like, well, if you know you're working 1344 01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,280 Speaker 1: for such a racist company, why you know why? And 1345 01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:33,559 Speaker 1: that that was another thing that it seems like the 1346 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: movie might try to like attempt to address, probably not well, 1347 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,120 Speaker 1: but attempt, but then it's just kind of dropped of, like, well, 1348 01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,360 Speaker 1: he just has this. He just has this, and it's 1349 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,599 Speaker 1: just the thing he has, right. And it's the same 1350 01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,160 Speaker 1: thing with like when Enid brings the art in and 1351 01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,519 Speaker 1: she's trying to justify why she thinks it's this like 1352 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,280 Speaker 1: profound piece of art, and she really stumbles through her 1353 01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:00,280 Speaker 1: answer and gives what's essentially a non answer, but her 1354 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,560 Speaker 1: art tea, her white art teacher, is like, this is remarkable, 1355 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,920 Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, is the intent of this movie 1356 01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:14,400 Speaker 1: to show how cavalier white people tend to be about racism? 1357 01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,439 Speaker 1: But I'm like, if that is the intention, it's again 1358 01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,599 Speaker 1: it's so poorly handled because we're only seeing this through 1359 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,240 Speaker 1: white character's perspectives. Like the couple black characters you see 1360 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,400 Speaker 1: who are like protesting at the little gallery show, or 1361 01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:33,400 Speaker 1: like the character who is credited as black student in 1362 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:39,320 Speaker 1: the art classroom is just like, hey, that it's not right, 1363 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,920 Speaker 1: and that's the only perspective you get on it from 1364 01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,320 Speaker 1: any black people. And it's just like so much of 1365 01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,240 Speaker 1: this stuff that we're talking about apparently is not what 1366 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:53,160 Speaker 1: the graphic novel includes. No, there's not a lot of Steve. Yeah, 1367 01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:54,960 Speaker 1: he's not in it a lot. It is much more 1368 01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:59,000 Speaker 1: about Enid and Rebecca's friendship. So things that make you 1369 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,240 Speaker 1: go home to quote m Z is like, why is 1370 01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,200 Speaker 1: it when you made this movie about these two teenage 1371 01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:09,360 Speaker 1: girls going through this you know, transitional space, did it 1372 01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,679 Speaker 1: all of a sudden have to have like a male 1373 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,680 Speaker 1: character have such a giant role in this film, Like 1374 01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:20,760 Speaker 1: that's that's us to me? Like, and after reading that, 1375 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: I was like even more disappointed because you can tell 1376 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,360 Speaker 1: at the beginning that they're supposed to be these elements 1377 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,479 Speaker 1: of like how close they are together. Like from what 1378 01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,760 Speaker 1: I've read, there's definitely more discussion about them being perceived 1379 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:38,000 Speaker 1: as queer together, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's definitely there. 1380 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,400 Speaker 1: They don't explore it at all. Rebecca is barely there. Yeah, 1381 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,920 Speaker 1: she's barely there. And they're supposed to be this whole 1382 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,759 Speaker 1: issue of like Rebecca being the attractive one that everyone wants, 1383 01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,960 Speaker 1: and it's just like they don't really do anything with 1384 01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:53,639 Speaker 1: it. It It supposed to be this whole thing with Josh. 1385 01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:56,280 Speaker 1: They don't do anything with that. So it just feels 1386 01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,720 Speaker 1: like a lot of missteps and attempts to make it 1387 01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:05,040 Speaker 1: more i don't know, cynical male focus. Like it feels 1388 01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,160 Speaker 1: like it feels like they're like, we need a guy 1389 01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,040 Speaker 1: to sell this movie, and they like, let's get Steve Boushemy. 1390 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,000 Speaker 1: And it's like and it's like I can tell that 1391 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 1: this movie because it's it is very beloved, and I 1392 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,280 Speaker 1: can see that because I think that any time that 1393 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,439 Speaker 1: a movie comes out, like with two teenage Girls, where 1394 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:27,400 Speaker 1: they're just very mad, it's because like usually you know, 1395 01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:30,080 Speaker 1: it's like the mean girls or the clueless is and 1396 01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:33,040 Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, finally a movie for the other 1397 01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:37,320 Speaker 1: kinds of girls. But I hate that the economy anyway. 1398 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,559 Speaker 1: Is there anything else you wanted to touch on? No, 1399 01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,760 Speaker 1: I just I remember like when they sleep together, I 1400 01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:50,360 Speaker 1: like wrote on my iPad, I was like underline underline, underline, underline, underline, underline. 1401 01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,439 Speaker 1: I was so like gobsmacked. I really wish I enjoyed 1402 01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,519 Speaker 1: it more because I think that the performances are really good, 1403 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,200 Speaker 1: Like I actually like Scarlett Johansson in the movie Wow Surprised, 1404 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,000 Speaker 1: but she was really I thought she was goodness. I 1405 01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,240 Speaker 1: actually liked her character more. I thought Steve Bushey was, 1406 01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, very good like he was. I really kind 1407 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,640 Speaker 1: to his performance. It made me like probably enjoy seem more, 1408 01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:14,960 Speaker 1: much more than I would have otherwise. The last thing 1409 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:19,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to share so I read this piece by 1410 01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,400 Speaker 1: my friend Megan Kistar. She read a profile on Terry's 1411 01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:27,240 Speaker 1: Wigoff a couple of years ago in and she includes 1412 01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:32,479 Speaker 1: a picture of thora Burt and Scarlett Johansson in ghost World, 1413 01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,080 Speaker 1: and they like wrote a little message to Terry's Wigoff 1414 01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,639 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, interpret as you will. But Scarlett Johansson, 1415 01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,679 Speaker 1: who is fifteen when this movie came out or sixteen. Um, 1416 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,479 Speaker 1: she writes next to her name, Terry. As much as 1417 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,439 Speaker 1: I would like to think, you wouldn't, please don't hang 1418 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,479 Speaker 1: this picture on your bedroom ceiling, Scarlett, so you know, 1419 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:59,320 Speaker 1: for everyone's consideration, Jesus, there is that scene where like 1420 01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,120 Speaker 1: David Crosses character is like hitting on her and I'm like, 1421 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:10,000 Speaker 1: she's obviously a child like truly, Yeah, I was equally 1422 01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,439 Speaker 1: like jump scare to see David cross in this movie 1423 01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,280 Speaker 1: as I was jump scared to see Bob Odenkirk and 1424 01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:19,479 Speaker 1: little women like you just don't see either of them coming. 1425 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:27,000 Speaker 1: You're like the twist, Oh my gosh. Well, thank you 1426 01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:32,800 Speaker 1: for joining us Princess Special little segment. We'll return to 1427 01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:37,840 Speaker 1: the the regularly scheduled episode the first um where can 1428 01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,639 Speaker 1: people follow you online and check out your stuff so 1429 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,840 Speaker 1: they can follow me at week's Princess Um Twitter and 1430 01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,639 Speaker 1: they can find my YouTube channel Malina Pendulum as well. Well. 1431 01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,000 Speaker 1: Thank you again so much, and we'll talk to you 1432 01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:57,160 Speaker 1: back to the episode. So, as far as the Bechtel 1433 01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:04,880 Speaker 1: test goes, it us pass handily, mostly between Enid and Rebecca. 1434 01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,040 Speaker 1: There's also just a lot of different combinations of characters, 1435 01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,840 Speaker 1: female characters speaking to each other. But let's put it 1436 01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,800 Speaker 1: to our nipple scale, So a nipple scale of zero 1437 01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:19,080 Speaker 1: to five nipples. This is the Becto cast nipple scale. 1438 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,920 Speaker 1: Uh so zero to five nipples based on how the 1439 01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:29,320 Speaker 1: movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens. So on one hand, 1440 01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:33,120 Speaker 1: you do have a different version of teen girls, and 1441 01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:37,280 Speaker 1: we have seen prior to this in most movies geared 1442 01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:42,200 Speaker 1: towards teenagers and young adults. So I think there's a 1443 01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:45,160 Speaker 1: lot of value in that. I do see how relatable 1444 01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,439 Speaker 1: en it is for a lot of people, me included 1445 01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,920 Speaker 1: both in it and Rebecca. Like I saw parts of 1446 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,839 Speaker 1: myself in in it and in Rebecca and maybe even Josh. 1447 01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:56,960 Speaker 1: You know, I also was making ice cream for children 1448 01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,520 Speaker 1: as a teenager, so you know, and just like teenagers 1449 01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:06,719 Speaker 1: torturing each other at their jobs is very universal experience. Yeah, 1450 01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:10,799 Speaker 1: because i have no nostalgia or attachment to this movie, 1451 01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,920 Speaker 1: and I'm coming at it strictly from the lens of 1452 01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:16,840 Speaker 1: really just having like seeing it as a young person 1453 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,439 Speaker 1: only that one time, and then watching it through my 1454 01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,360 Speaker 1: current lens. It's it's really I'm able to sort of 1455 01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:29,280 Speaker 1: separate things. Um in a different way than someone who 1456 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:31,040 Speaker 1: did grow up with this movie and does have more 1457 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:32,640 Speaker 1: of an attachment to it, I guess, And that's just 1458 01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:35,160 Speaker 1: sort of a nature of what this show is. Like, 1459 01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,840 Speaker 1: how does the media we saw as young people, how 1460 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,160 Speaker 1: did that affect us? How did that affect culture at large? 1461 01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:43,960 Speaker 1: You know all that kind of stuff, So like, yeah, 1462 01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,840 Speaker 1: what is it like to revisit it? And right, So 1463 01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:52,160 Speaker 1: with all of that in mind, that plus the things 1464 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,000 Speaker 1: that I take a big issue with, which is the 1465 01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,960 Speaker 1: way it really mishandles, the racist art component of the store, 1466 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:04,040 Speaker 1: the fact that there is a sexual relationship between these 1467 01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,679 Speaker 1: two characters who have such an enormous disparity in their 1468 01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,800 Speaker 1: emotional maturity. And yes, you could make the argument that 1469 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,960 Speaker 1: Seymour is not the most emotionally mature man in his 1470 01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,280 Speaker 1: forties ever, But like, he has a better sense of 1471 01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,880 Speaker 1: who he is, he knows what he likes, he has 1472 01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:29,120 Speaker 1: established an adult life for himself, whereas Enid is still 1473 01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:33,599 Speaker 1: figuring out who she is and what she wants. And again, 1474 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:37,880 Speaker 1: she's just so newly out of high school. She has 1475 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:42,640 Speaker 1: not lived as an adult, and her emotional maturity is 1476 01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:47,439 Speaker 1: still developing. And the whole situation just gave me a 1477 01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:53,000 Speaker 1: lot of pause and just made me overall feel pretty uncomfortable. 1478 01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:55,160 Speaker 1: So with all that in mind, I guess I would 1479 01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:56,920 Speaker 1: give it for me. It just kind of goes right 1480 01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:01,280 Speaker 1: down the middle, like a two point five. Uh, nipples 1481 01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,200 Speaker 1: is what I will give it. And we also award 1482 01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,519 Speaker 1: our nipples, So if you would like to do that, um, 1483 01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:09,760 Speaker 1: that is an option to you. So I will give 1484 01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:14,719 Speaker 1: one of my nipples to end, one to Rebecca, and 1485 01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:20,080 Speaker 1: I will give one to the art teacher to Roberta. Yeah, 1486 01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:23,439 Speaker 1: Roberta gets a half. I'll go two and a half 1487 01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:26,240 Speaker 1: on this one as well. Yeah. I like. I like 1488 01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:29,240 Speaker 1: how how much agency the characters have. I like how 1489 01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,720 Speaker 1: much they funk up. I liked they're like trying to 1490 01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,120 Speaker 1: fit in, failing to fit in, trying to fit in again. 1491 01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,760 Speaker 1: Like all of that is so like. I feel like 1492 01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:42,200 Speaker 1: almost any team girl could see parts of themselves in 1493 01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:46,360 Speaker 1: that process of trying on a personality. Oh this isn't working, 1494 01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,960 Speaker 1: funk this, I'm gonna try this, and and all that 1495 01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:52,679 Speaker 1: is so cool and universal and I think well told 1496 01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:56,080 Speaker 1: and I and I I feel like the Seymour relationship 1497 01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:58,760 Speaker 1: could be a component of that of like, here is 1498 01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,760 Speaker 1: that that is sort of like a friendship, you know, 1499 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,000 Speaker 1: in it is trying that friendship on, saying is this 1500 01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,920 Speaker 1: where I belong? But then it just ends up taking 1501 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,400 Speaker 1: up so much space in a way that I'm like, 1502 01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:12,160 Speaker 1: I would have rather have seen her continue to have 1503 01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,839 Speaker 1: that like kind of pinball struggle instead of really honing 1504 01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:18,200 Speaker 1: in on this one relationship and friendship. I just kind 1505 01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,280 Speaker 1: of wish that they had chosen a different target to 1506 01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:25,000 Speaker 1: stay focused on there. So I have so much compassion 1507 01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:27,160 Speaker 1: for adolescence, I swear to God, like the way that 1508 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,000 Speaker 1: your brain grows and at what rate and the hormones, 1509 01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:32,960 Speaker 1: Like I really do. I have so much compassion for 1510 01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:36,080 Speaker 1: people like who are going through that phase of life 1511 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:41,000 Speaker 1: and showing that discomfort is like, really, it's so challenging. 1512 01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,439 Speaker 1: It's so challenging. I think we use humans are all 1513 01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:51,400 Speaker 1: permanently traumatized by our adolescence. Yeah, for sure, Um, except 1514 01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:55,680 Speaker 1: for people like me Laura. And that's why you're like, oh, 1515 01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:59,599 Speaker 1: why are you so goddamn chipper? For Laura? Also me, Laura, 1516 01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:01,800 Speaker 1: how you not? No, we don't like you. All we're 1517 01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,760 Speaker 1: doing is being you've ever once gotten a hint? Hey, guys, 1518 01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:08,040 Speaker 1: we should hang out sometimes well, Laura, Laura, she's not 1519 01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,160 Speaker 1: perhaps the most self aware she is, No, not a 1520 01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,840 Speaker 1: shred of self awareness about her, Laura move forward. But yeah, 1521 01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,679 Speaker 1: there's like the focus on I mean kind of similar 1522 01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,200 Speaker 1: to you, Caitlin, and I think that the way that 1523 01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,920 Speaker 1: they treat raised in this movie is very weird and 1524 01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,880 Speaker 1: doesn't this was not a movie where they could have 1525 01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: handled that responsibly without bringing in other people, which they didn't, 1526 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,000 Speaker 1: And so that whole storyline to the point where like 1527 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,400 Speaker 1: the only black characters who speak are kind of made 1528 01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,559 Speaker 1: to seem over sensitive for being unhappy with the choices 1529 01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:45,000 Speaker 1: that Enid is making. So they're ray stuff on zero nipples, 1530 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,479 Speaker 1: really negative. So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go two 1531 01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:52,839 Speaker 1: point five as well. Yeah, when Enid went to Rebecca 1532 01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,080 Speaker 1: and a half, to the girl who put the tamp 1533 01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:01,360 Speaker 1: on in the cup, yeah for good for her. Julie, 1534 01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:07,400 Speaker 1: how about you, I don't know, I give it one 1535 01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:15,880 Speaker 1: me at eighteen that well, Julie, thank you so much 1536 01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,040 Speaker 1: for being here. What an interesting thing discussion this movie 1537 01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:25,400 Speaker 1: has spawned. Yes, and thank you for continuing to challenge, 1538 01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, my ideas about intersectional feminism and to you know, 1539 01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,639 Speaker 1: give me things to think about and other people things 1540 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,320 Speaker 1: to think about, and you know, generationally, I'm just very 1541 01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:41,880 Speaker 1: appreciative of all approaches to you know, feminism and just 1542 01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:44,400 Speaker 1: thinking about things the way I have I haven't been 1543 01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:49,120 Speaker 1: conditioned to. And I I just I really, I really 1544 01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:53,840 Speaker 1: appreciate those insights to kind of like throttle me from 1545 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:57,240 Speaker 1: my my little comfort seat of things that I've believed 1546 01:25:57,280 --> 01:25:59,519 Speaker 1: since I was you know, certain like I don't know, 1547 01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:03,040 Speaker 1: I just I just appreciate the more conversation the better. So, yeah, 1548 01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:05,360 Speaker 1: it's a journey. It's a journey that we're we're there. 1549 01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,400 Speaker 1: There's things we have to learn these there's things we 1550 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:11,000 Speaker 1: have to unlearn. It's a process. So we're all we're 1551 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:13,240 Speaker 1: right there with you. Yeah, but good luck with those 1552 01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:18,720 Speaker 1: Dipamma movies. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, me a 1553 01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:27,280 Speaker 1: while till we return. There's no urgency. Where can people 1554 01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:31,439 Speaker 1: follow you? Check out your stuff? Plug away? I am 1555 01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:37,120 Speaker 1: on Twitter unfortunately. Uh, listen to Double Threat at a 1556 01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:39,400 Speaker 1: podcast I do with Tom sharp Ling and subscribe and 1557 01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:41,040 Speaker 1: it's really fun and I do that every week. And 1558 01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,080 Speaker 1: then I created a show called Difficult People that I 1559 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:44,840 Speaker 1: co starr in with Billy Eichner and all those are 1560 01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,920 Speaker 1: on Hulu, so I'm very proud of those. You can 1561 01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:52,240 Speaker 1: follow us on social media at Bechtel Cast. You can 1562 01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:55,760 Speaker 1: subscribe to our Patreon a k a. Matreon, which is 1563 01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:57,920 Speaker 1: five dollars a month and it gets you to bonus 1564 01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:01,280 Speaker 1: episodes every month, plus access to the entire back catalog 1565 01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:06,040 Speaker 1: of bonus episodes that's available at patreon dot com slash 1566 01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:10,599 Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. We've also got our merch at t public 1567 01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:17,360 Speaker 1: dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. You can get shirts, pillows, masks, 1568 01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:22,040 Speaker 1: even all kinds of stuff. Also, thanks again to Princess 1569 01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:26,400 Speaker 1: Weeks for joining us for that special segment. Be sure 1570 01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,360 Speaker 1: to check out her work and follow her on social 1571 01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,479 Speaker 1: media as well. And U